Search Results for: alcohol

Welcome to Episode 478 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

TANASI:

Tanasi creates a next-level, THC-free CBD with a patented CBD + CBDA blend found to be 3x more effective than CBD alone, naturally supporting sleep, stress, pain, recovery, and overall health and wellness. Their formulas are clean, tested, and come in easy-to-use options like tinctures, softgels, and soothing topicals. Get 25% off with code IFPodcast at tanasi.com

BIOPTIMIZERS

Get a MASSIVE 26% Off Bioptimizers' Probiotic Breakthrough, featuring the patented P3OM strain! Probiotic Breakthrough is a single-strain, stress-hardened probiotic designed to survive stomach acid and support gut health. It’s proteolytic, helping break down protein and improve overall nutrient absorption, while promoting a balanced gut microbiota. This plant-based, vegan-friendly, and travel-ready supplement multiplies in the gut for powerful effects without refrigeration. Get 15% off your entire order + a free bottle of MassZymes at ⁠bioptimizers.com/ifpodcast⁠ with code IFPODCAST15.

LEESA

Leesa creates beautifully crafted mattresses designed for how you actually sleep, with premium materials that deliver full-body support and seriously restorative rest from night one. Melanie has the Natural Hybrid Mattress, thoughtfully crafted for cleaner, safer sleep with natural latex, organic cotton, and breathable wool for a low-toxin sleep environment you can feel good about. Every Leesa mattress is GREENGUARD Gold certified after rigorous testing for over 360 VOCs, and the foams are CertiPUR-US® certified, meaning they’re made without ozone depleters, PBDE flame retardants, heavy metals, formaldehyde, and certain phthalates, with low emissions for better indoor air quality. Get 25% off select mattresses PLUS an extra $50 off with code IFPODCAST at Leesa.com

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 478 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 478 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Mel, I'm doing great. I can't complain. I am at the final week of training for this half marathon, which comes up this Sunday. Oh my goodness.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I'm making sure I had this in my calendar. I'm pretty sure I did.

Barry Conrad
And I know by the time this airs, it would have been passed by now, but it's, it's, I'm feeling the crunch. This is it. It's all happening now.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, there it is very marathon. Oh my goodness. So are you how you feeling?

Barry Conrad
I'm feeling good. I have been training pretty consistently and the longest run I've done so far for my training is 19 kilometers, which is just not, it's just shy of the 22 kilometers that you do for the half marathon.

So that is 11.8 miles, so about 12 miles.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm out.

Barry Conrad
It's been good. It's been going really good.

You know, what I do, what was interesting to me, which is silly, was that I went to train the other day, maybe last week, and I went to do another long run. And I just part out, which means I just like, I started and my legs were just, it felt like lead. And then I realized I actually haven't been eating to accommodate for this training. Like I've been sticking to my normal fasting window and not eating more carbs and things like that. And your body needs more food. So as soon as I rectified that, I bounced back. But at the time I was like, why can't I do like one kilometer right now? And it's like no brainer, right?

Melanie Avalon
Wow, that's actually going to relate a little bit to a question we have today. So so now you you adjusted and feeling better.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I just said feeling better.

So definitely living my high, high, high carb life at the moment, not in a reckless way, but making sure that the night before actually every night I'm getting just extra carbs intentionally because your body needs it. You can't just run on fumes and good vibes. You know?

Melanie Avalon
Do you have like what type of cards do you have?

Barry Conrad
I metabolize rice really well, so just extra rice. Potatoes are really good for me. Those things really, really help me.

I don't buy carbs. I want to be clear. I'm not going to go for pizza and stuff like that. That's not what I mean. A lot of people carb load with all of that. But the night before, I might have a big bowl of pasta or something like that. But on the daily, I'm just having more rice than I normally have, more potatoes than what I normally have, not shying away just. And because, Mel, you know I eat. So I'm intentionally eating even more than I normally do because I literally need to.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Are you nervous or excited or how do you feel?

Barry Conrad
I'm excited because I feel like if I can do the 19 k's it's only three kilometers more to finish the half and I reckon that will everyone keep saying that on the day you just feel this extra adrenaline so hoping that's going to kick in because I have a goal of a time that I want to make so hopefully I can smash that out.

Melanie Avalon
I am sure you're gonna kill it. That's amazing. I'm so excited for you. What time does it start?

Barry Conrad
I think it's like 7 30 a.m. So it's but it's not too far away from like the starting points not too far from my place. So it's good

Melanie Avalon
wow is it a like is it like the new york marathon like is it a thing

Barry Conrad
Yes it's called the brooklyn hot the brooklyn experience half marathon so it's it is a thing that happens every year and running just so massive here i had no idea until i moved here i don't know what it's like in atlanta is it a thing there.

Melanie Avalon
I wouldn't know. Not really in the scene.

Barry Conrad
But do you see like what you're driving to, you know,

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I don't ever see it in real life. Like I don't see it in the wild. That said, I do see, I either like have friends who do things or I see things about it. So I know it, I know what goes on.

I just, I don't go anywhere where it goes on either. Yeah, that's amazing though.

Barry Conrad
Random question, just say, just say you got sent a script or like a pitch from a casting director saying, Hey, Mel, we love what you do. We have this part in this film that you be perfect or you have to like do, you have to run in the film. Would you do it? Like you'd have to be like a runner.

Melanie Avalon
Would you do it? I mean, as long as I don't have to do a marathon in the film, I am capable of running. Yeah, I would do it.

Well, I mean, depending, depending. Yeah, as long as it's not, there's a lot of depending on criteria, you know, as long as it's not like, you know, as long as it's doable and I can have a stunt double.

Barry Conrad
I also don't see how people can do an entire marathon. Now that I'm training for a half, a whole marathon solo.

Melanie Avalon
Did I tell you when we did that Mind Blown episode on that crazy marathon? Tell me.

Have I told you about this? It was the men's marathon at the 1904 Summer Olympics in St. Louis. No. It was literally horrible.

Barry Conrad
A men's marathon?

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh. I don't even remember everything that happened, but basically they completely messed up everything organizing it. So let's see. They did it on the hardest part of the day in St. Louis on a dusty country road. Oh yeah, they had minimal water supply because they were testing. The only water was at one well halfway at the halfway mark because they were testing the effects of purposeful dehydration. And then there were like, the signage was like all wrong. People got lost. Only 14 out of 32 of the people completed it.

One guy got to the end and they greeted him like he was the winner, but then later they disqualified him because they found out he had taken a car for part of the ride. And then the actual winner, he was at near collapse and hallucinating by the end of the race because he had been given brandy and eggs and strike a nine by his trainers. The fourth place winner actually took a nap, actually got like, he was racing and then he saw an apple orchard and ate some spoiled apples and got sick and took a nap and then he still finished. It was just like a mess.

Barry Conrad
Someone needs to adapt this into a screenplay. It sounds funny.

Melanie Avalon
it should be a screenplay because we did a whole episode on it and we like literally went through the whole marathon and it was just like, it was just crazy. So yes, thankfully, things are not like that anymore.

Barry Conrad
No, not anymore. But yeah.

Also, Maldiz, did you see that article that came out about the big longevity guys sort of having a moment? Who? Okay, I'm going to send it to you. Hold on a second. See, tell me if you've seen this. Send it to you. Basically, okay. I'm not going to name check anyone because the point...

Melanie Avalon
It's a picture of everybody.

Barry Conrad
I guess the point I'll bring it up is that

Melanie Avalon
The title is the longevity bros are fighting and then it's it is literally the four but

Barry Conrad
Okay. The point why I wanted to bring it up is not to like name check or lay in, but it's more like it just got me thinking like more broadly about just the conversation at the moment online, like lately, like about health and fitness and longevity and whatnot. And like you can see someone like it looks amazing, or they've got this massive following. And they sell the idea of like live longer, lose body fat, build muscle, da da da da da. And you kind of go, well, if it's working for them, they're massive deals, I should just jump in. But then like, how much of that have we do we actually look into properly as I was like, I think like, when people really peel it back, there's so much marketing and positioning and stuff and AI, you don't really know what's real anymore, people can literally create versions of themselves that don't exist, you have like, people doing surgical enhancements, passing off as bio hacks. And now this whole looks maxing thing as well. Where have you heard of that thing? It's just crazy.

The whole what thing looks maxing. Have you heard of that?

Melanie Avalon
What is looks maxing?

Barry Conrad
It's basically the gist of it is to enhance your physical attractiveness, but I'm not going to get into it because it's pretty intense on here. But if you look it up, it's wild. People try to optimize their appearance in ways that can be pretty extreme and they're like young men. It's like this movement at the moment and it's scary, yeah, like lots of stuff.

But yeah, I mean, I'm all for people doing whatever they want to their body and whatnot, but this article just made me think about the bigger thing of like if you're selling something great, but then there's got to be like a level of transparency like around what you're doing. I think, you know, because just encourage people to do their due deal engines. Like don't necessarily believe it just because they sell it. I mean, yeah, and also see your doctor. Don't fall for the scams. What do you think, Mel, about these, you know, this time we're in at the moment.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's interesting. And if listeners would like to read the story, which I haven't read it, but we will put it in the show notes.

Barry Conrad
Yes. The longevity bros are fighting. Great title, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
And now that you say it, I did the other day hear some, I heard somebody say the word looks maxing. And that was the first time I heard it. And I thought they were just making up that word on the spot. They were like, oh, it's kind of like looks maxing. But they were talking about, I don't know, something like getting your eyebrows trimmed and stuff. But I think that I'm all for people wanting to look their best and, you know, look away that makes them feel good about how they look.

I'm literally like people, I'm very libertarian in a lot of my thoughts. I'm like, do whatever you want. I do think that social media, I mean, we have like AI and filters. And so none of it's real anyways. Like it's all, I mean, most of it's not real anyways. It's all like filtered up. And yeah, I guess there was that question of the cognitive dissonance of people promoting longevity, but then going to extremes or, you know, creating a fake sense of reality. And I think it all becomes much more, I mean, obviously it becomes much more intense with social media. I don't know. It's all just exhausting when I think about it. I just want people to do whatever they want to do. I guess I know for me, I guess maybe some of the reason I have personal cognitive dissonance about it is I do, everything I promote is because it really radically changed my life. Like if I'm talking about something, it's because I love it. And it really helped me in whatever way it helped me. Like sleep or stress or digestion or beauty, like all the things, like it helped me. That's what I'm talking about it. So I have that. And then at the same time, I mean, I like use filters and I want to create this, you know, image. So I guess I'm in it too at the same time. That's maybe that's why I'm like, people do whatever you want. I don't know, but I do think it's very, very intense right now. Everything is very intense with AI.

Barry Conrad
I think it's different what you're saying though, because if you're saying that you're doing all the things and whatever, if you're transparent, I think that's the whole point. I feel like people only really have a problem, I think, when said people aren't being transparent.

I don't think people really can have a problem with anything. Actually, people can do whatever they want anyway and people will still have a problem, but I think the main thing is transparency. Just be real and not say it's like X product when it's Z product doing the thing.

Melanie Avalon
And again, I haven't read that article exactly, but I definitely think if you're attributing certain effects to products that's not exactly what's happening, that's a major problem going on there.

Barry Conrad
I do. You're still right though.

It is such a time of where everything is way more heightened now where social media and everything, it's just so accessible and yeah, it's everywhere. It's kind of, I feel like we're in the vortex.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. All right. Well, on that note, shall we jump into some fasting related things? Let's do it.

So I have a study to start us off with and I am so excited about it. This study, it's actually, it's not the newest study. However, it's fascinating what was found in it. So it's from 2014 in the Journal of International Society of Sports Nutrition. Mm-hmm. And it is called the effects of consuming a high protein diet, 4.4 grams per kilogram a day on body composition and resistance trained individuals. Before I tell you what was actually found in it, I want to show you another article I was reading that I saw and I wanted to share really quickly.

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so to go on a quick tangent before we jump into because one of the things they talk about in this article is they talk about a lot of the or this journal article, they talk about a lot of the confusion out there surrounding what a high protein diet is. And they say that, you know, there are studies and articles out there that talk about, quote, high protein diets, but they don't even consider that a high protein diet.

So in this study, they were trying to they were trying to test like an actual high protein diet. So, again, 4.4 grams per kilogram a day. But it made me think of this other article I read the other day, which I will send to you. And I was laughing because this article is called this is just like a casual article. It's called the mind boggling amount of protein Arnold Schwarzenegger ate in his prime. And basically, they're talking about how, you know, he ate this mind boggling amount of protein, which they said was up to 250 grams of protein per day. And I was like, what? I feel like I eat 250 grams of protein per day. That's like not a lot to me. I mean, I mean, that's a lot. It's a lot. But I do think I feel like that is like the range I exist in for what I eat.

Barry Conrad
Which i think is hilarious cuz that's considered like what the some crazy and saying about but it's actually really not.

Melanie Avalon
I know. And then they say, okay, they say at 250 pounds, he needed 250 grams of protein every day, which is too much protein for most people. Too much.

It's not too much. Yeah, I just, I don't know. So when I saw that, I was like, this is, this is really funny and laughable. Mind boggling. In any case, back to the study.

Barry Conrad
And also, like, have they met you? It's like, have you met me? Like, I eat that on the daily.

Melanie Avalon
I was literally like I was like counting up the protein that I eat and I was like, yeah, that basically I am Arnold Schwarzenegger is the takeaway. But so what they studied and the study that I'm talking about now, they wanted to look at a very high protein diet. Again, that's 4.4 grams per kilogram a day, which is the equivalent of I want to say what that is in pounds. So that is the equivalent of around 2 grams per pound per day ish. So like a 95 pound person would be there would be 190 grams, 120 pound person would be 240 grams, and then 150 pound person would be 300 grams a day. And the way it was set up was they had 30 healthy resistance trained individuals in the study. And then they were in one of two groups. So there was the control group and then there was the high protein group. So the control group, they just kept doing their same thing. There's their same training, their same dietary habits, and they did this for eight weeks.

So for two months, and then the high protein group, they were instructed to consume 4.4 grams of protein per body weight daily, and they were told to maintain the same training and the same diet as far as like fat and carbs. So basically, they weren't supposed to adjust for the high protein, they're supposed to still eat their normal food intake, but just have much more protein. And so they ended up consuming on average, around 800 calories worth of protein extra per day, they consumed on average, 307 plus or minus 69 grams of protein, compared to 138 grams plus or minus 42 in the control group. So both groups did this, and the high protein group, they were consuming 5.5 times the daily recommended daily allowance for protein. And what they found, despite having 5.5 times the recommended amount and around 800 calories more each day, there was zero change in body composition between the two people. So between the two groups. So basically, adding in all of this extra protein didn't make them gain weight, even though it was excess calories. And it was really interesting because they then they went back and they talked about some other studies that have been done on this. And they were saying that in some other prior studies that have been done where they looked at a quote, high protein group, although they don't they don't even really like consider it high protein in prior studies. But when it was when studies like similar to this with like adding high protein, a high protein arm was done in like non active individuals, it would actually lead to muscle gain in those individuals. But it didn't in this group. And they think it's because this group was like regularly training and they didn't change their training regimen anyways. So they think they just like maintain their current muscle, but they didn't the thing is they didn't gain any weight from it. And so I'm also of interest of interest is they the added protein was in the form of whey and casein protein powder. So it was protein powder that they were adding, because they said otherwise they didn't think it would be possible for the participants to eat that much protein, although I think I could.

Melanie Avalon
But in any case, in any case, that just speaks to me if they're adding in 800 calories of protein in a very processed form, like imagine the metabolic effects, if they had actually had it in whole foods form, like I would imagine it would be even more intense as far as I don't know, like not like weight loss per se, or like, how do I say it, like it really speaks to the profound effects of adding in protein to your diet, and how it doesn't really make you gain weight, even when it's in like a processed, you know, protein powder form. Interestingly, so they're out of the 40 subjects initially recruited, 10 dropped out, three of those people. said that they could not, they just couldn't eat that much protein, which again, we talk about, you know, people are often like writing in wanting to know they have hunger, like they want to, you know, how can they deal with like wanting to eat more or whatever it is. Like if you, you can go to town on protein as my point, like if you want to like eat all the things and like you're struggling with like weight loss or weight loss resistance or like overeating, just like go to protein because not that it's a free food, but it's you can have so much of it and feel very full and you're not going to gain weight from it. Like fat gain, which is amazing.

And then some of the other interesting things that they found, oh, it was over 800 calories per day that they were having every day for eight weeks. So they, they said that a lot of this could be due to the thermic effect of protein. And they also referenced a prior study as well, which I thought was really interesting. So apparently the other studies have found that people who are overweight and obese have less of a thermic response to food. And so the thermic response of food is the calories that you burn just by digesting the food and protein has the highest effect of that. And that's another reason that you could have more protein calories and not quote gain weight because you're burning a lot of calories, just digesting and assimilating the protein. Interestingly enough, there's a thermic effect for protein, which is the highest. And then next up is carbs and then fat. So fat has a very low thermic effect. And then they, they referenced another study where people who were obese had less of a thermic response to food, but not to protein. So basically if you're, if you're overweight or obese, if you eat carbs or fat, you might actually burn less of those calories than people who are normal weight and healthy. But protein across the board, there's like not a change. So again, protein is like an incredible food for weight loss because you don't have this issue of not burning as like your metabolism, not being as high as people who are already at a lower weight. I'm loving this by the way. I know. I loved it so much. Then they also, I already talked about this, but they did say again that they thought it was actually kind of odd that the group eating 800 calories more protein didn't gain muscle.

Melanie Avalon
But again, they said it's probably because they were, they didn't really change their, their training at all. So yeah, their takeaway though, it was basically that for people that you can add all of this protein, like the super high amount of protein and knocking weight from it, even in a calorie excess.

So what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
This, this study is right up my alley the whole time you're talking about this. I had a massive smile on my face because I'm all about, I'm team protein.

And it explains a lot because you eat pounds and pounds of animal protein and whatnot every night. I do the same thing every day, lots and lots and lots and lots of protein. And you don't, I have not experienced any fat gain from that. If anything, I find myself becoming lean on my body composition is way more detailed, better than before. And this really explains it. And I did, I do understand the confusion that some people might have thought about, well, shouldn't more protein equal more muscle? Well, actually no, like you have to actually accommodate for that. So if you want to get the extra gains, you're going to have to go harder in the gym as well to break down that muscle first, and then, and then that extra protein intake is going to really have an effect, but you can't just do the same training and expect the assault to look like Arnold, you know, for like a bit of references, you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, actually to comment on that really quickly, because now I just remembered the other detail about the prior study. So they were saying that in the other study that they looked at where the participants ate like a lot of calorie excess and then but some of them were having higher protein and then that group in that prior study that they mentioned like everybody did gain weight but they weren't just it wasn't just like I don't think it was just protein excess it was like a way excess of calories that they were having and they think that the reason people in the higher protein arm did gain muscle gain more muscle was because they were eating at a like they weren't trained and they were eating at a probably at a protein deficit before.

So it's like now they were actually getting the protein they needed to like build muscle for their just normal, you know, daily activities.

Barry Conrad
I also find it really interesting that you said some of the participants used like, I guess, supplementation because that's what they thought was the only way that they could actually take in enough protein. It's not a problem for me.

I do realize that it makes you more full, so I do get that. I've got some mates at the moment who are trying to intentionally, like this couple of friends of mine, they're trying to intentionally have more protein and they're struggling. They're like, we tried to have more with dinner, but we just can't. It's really hard for a lot of people.

Melanie Avalon
No, like to that point, and this is what I want to say to people, because like I said, people struggle so often with hunger, like their hunger, like what can they do? It's so ironic because people will ask, you know, how can I eat less?

Like because they're struggling with hunger and appetite and wanting to eat more. It's like the answer literally could be eat more, just focus on the protein. Like eat all the protein and try to gain weight doing that. You know, like make if you make that like the main thing. So it's just, I just think it's such a paradigm shift and it can help so many people rather than thinking about how do I restrict, think of how much protein can I eat.

Barry Conrad
I think so as well. Instead of leaving the house with a banana or like little snack bars and stuff, and then by the time you get to the end of the day, you feel full from those things, and then you can't have any protein, reverse it.

And just how much protein can I consume? Not in like a gluttonous way or anything, but just it's just more like you were saying, like that shift amongst a shift and just see if it makes a difference.

Melanie Avalon
It's kind of like a mental hack, but if your thing is that you just love like eating and eating and eating and you want like unlimited and you want to not even think about it, tell yourself that you have literally unlimited lean protein and see what happens because you literally can just go to town.

Barry Conrad
on it.

Melanie Avalon
It's so good, it's so good. I literally eat so much of it.

Barry Conrad
You do, and you said you have lots of chicken and stuff. I have lots of chicken wings or steak and whatnot. It's just so good. And also, yeah, you don't gain weight. You really don't.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I do want to emphasize the reason I say lean protein is because you also could have like, you know, tons of super, super fatty rib eyes. And now you're going to be adding lots of protein, but also be adding a lot of like fat calories.

But if you're having like, you know, more normal, like chicken and like leaner cuts of red meat, fish, you really Yeah, like I said, you can go to town.

Barry Conrad
I also found it was interesting, Mel, that two people dropped out.

Melanie Avalon
I know. So three dropped out because they said they couldn't eat that much protein and then one dropped out from GI distress and then the other people didn't say why they dropped out.

Barry Conrad
That's a good find.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome!

Speaker 3
Awesome, though.

Melanie Avalon
Shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it.

So we have a question from Joseph and the subject is IF and sports competition. And this is really appropriate. Like I was saying earlier with Barry sharing about his marathon training. So Joseph says, I've been doing IF for about nine months now, usually 16, eight, sometimes 19, five. Once a week I skip, just eat breakfast with my kids, but usually something paleo. I feel like my body is pretty used to IF now. Jiu-jitsu is my sport of choice. And I've trained a few times at the end of my fasting window and felt really good. I was apprehensive at first, as I was worried about not having the stamina. On the weekend I competed in a jiu-jitsu competition that had me competing at 10.30 am I gassed out really bad three minutes into a five minute round and felt really faint, it could have been due to poor cardio as I've not done much cardio lately. Usually I would open my eating window at 2pm after feeling so faint, I ate some organic figs for some energy and felt better for my next round later in the day. I was wondering if during high intensity sports, the body takes longer to turn fat into energy. Should I skip IF on competition days? Thanks for all the work you put into the podcast. And I thought this was perfect because you kind of described not the same thing, but you know, you just described earlier, hitting a wall.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Joseph, thank you so much for the question. This is such a great question and fitting as well. And I appreciate like how you clearly laid out the experience. And this is really a good example of where fasting meets real world performance. And I love that you've been consistent for that those nine months moving between your windows that you say here in 19 five and 16 eight. And that you're even training with that as well at the end of your fast and feeling good. So that already says that you're metabolically flexible and you built that ability to tap in, which is great. And that's a win.

Okay, but let's look at the actual situation. Competition day is a real different beast. It really is. And training fasted and competing fasted aren't the same thing. So when you're rolling into training, you can pace yourself a bit even if you don't realize it in competition, everything ramps up. So adrenaline is higher. I was just talking to Mel about this before and intensity is higher. Your output is higher. You're just pushing more closer to your max because of of game day, essentially. And that kind of horsepower, I guess, an effort relies so much on glycogen, which is stored, stored carbs in your muscles. And even if even you have your very fat adapted, your body still is going to so that's things like like scrambles and grips and like the takedowns and whatnot, like those big bursts of effort. The fax oxidation is amazing for steady energy, but it is slower. So it doesn't deliver the same speed your body demands for those sort of moments. So I reckon what's likely happening is not that your fasting is necessarily failing or wrong. It's just that the fuel source at the time didn't match the demand of what you were doing.

So the fact that you felt better, for example, after eating the figs is a big clue. That quick hit of carbs gave your body that accessible energy. It sort of topped up your glycogen just enough, helped you stabilize a bit from what you're saying for the next round. Should you skip IF on competition days? I'd sort of more reframe it. Like I wouldn't, it's not about necessarily skipping fasting. It's about like tailoring it to aligning it like with your fuel for what your goals are performance wise. So on competition days, I'd say I'd absolutely consider like if you want to widen your window a bit more, that doesn't necessarily mean chucking it out, you know, completely. It just means being flexible for the short season that you're doing this. It could, you could have like small, maybe like an easily digestible meal a couple hours before competing, something with carbs or and a bit of protein, nothing heavy, just like enough to give that, that quick access to fuel. I know for me, when I do the half, I'm definitely like considering even for me, like though it's early in the day, like whether to have something just beforehand or whether to do it fasted. So I'm considering the same and even considering this week, widening my window, just like even by a couple hours, like to 18 instead of 20.

Barry Conrad
So think of fasting as your baseline. I like, and performance days, the more the exception, you know, like where you can adjust. It's, I'd also say don't overlook the role of hydration and electrolytes and sleep because feeling faint can sometimes also be compounded by like lack of sodium because you're sweating so much, you're really under a lot of stress. So making sure you're well hydrated and having adequate electrolytes.

I'm literally talking to myself as well while talking to you and it's going to make a massive difference. And you also mentioned cardio and that's, which is worth getting into too. Okay. Most of your training has been strength centered or like skill-based adding more conditioning to what you're doing is going to help with that gassing out feeling, which is the worst feeling because you feel like I'm doing everything right. Why am I gassing out? Honestly though, in this case, it does sound more like a fueling situation rather than a cardio thing. So again, nothing went wrong. Your body's doing what it's supposed to do. It's just the access to fuel in the moment for what the demand is. So yeah, train faster if it feels good, but fuel for performance when it counts and don't overthink it because it's not like, it's not all year. It's just for what you're doing, like the competition. So it doesn't really matter. The balance is where you're going to get the best of both worlds. So don't overthink it, I reckon. Mal, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you said it perfectly. And it's so interesting because he literally like the question he asked, where he said is he was wondering if during high intensity sports, the body takes longer to turn fat into energy. So that is nailing it exactly.

And like like Barry was saying, but just to emphasize, it's not that it's taking longer for fat to turn into energy. So that's happening all the time. It's that behind intensity literally is not fueled by fat. It's like Barry saying it's fueled by glycogen. And so if your glycogen stores aren't there, there's nothing to fuel it. So that's why you're getting that feeling. I think that's like the ongoing question is, you're just gonna have to figure out how to properly keep your glycogen stores topped off in a way that keeps you sustained and fueled. And I feel like it's so different for different people. So like some people would be fine, you know, filling up their glycogen stores like the day prior, and then be fasted. And they, you know, work through those glycogen while they're doing the high intensity activity. But some people might need those top off. So having, you know, some sort of rapid way to get glycogen in, which is likely what happened with the figs, because figs, you know, quickly convert, they can contain glucose and fructose. And then that quickly repletes your liver glycogen. So you had, you know, something to fuel from. But then you also need to end your muscles, the glycogen as well. So I feel like that's always the ongoing question. I'll be curious, Barry, what you end up doing, you know, with with your glycogen stores. Like you said, you know, if you're gonna do like, actually day of type stuff, or, you know, or not, have you, you haven't decided though?

Barry Conrad
Well, Mel, like it's, it's, I literally relate to what Joseph is saying here. Cause that gassed out feeling is exactly how I felt when it's like, what's happening? Like it feels wrong, but it's literally your body saying you're just not fueled. You don't have enough glycogen. That's what it is.

So I am considering either just going to 18, six for the week or, and just eating more beforehand or sticking to my 20 and eating morning of, I don't know about eating morning off cause it's seven 30 starts. So I don't know. Maybe just maybe increasing my window for the week and eating more, getting my glycogen stores up, maybe perhaps. I reckon.

Speaker 3
Yeah

Melanie Avalon
Uh, either way I would, I mean, I, you know this, but I would test out what you're going to do before you, before day of, cause I think, I think a lot of people will make the mistake of like fasted training and then they're like, okay, but day of all, like have the, you know, the easy to use like, you know, honey or like whatever it is. But then that, if you're not accustomed to that, then you might actually end up like rebounding or bonking from that. You know, it's like so hard to, hard to know.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll keep you posted because it's actually a good experiment for me, for the future.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, hopefully that helps, Joseph.

Barry Conrad
Thanks, Joseph.

Melanie Avalon
All right, shall we do one more question?

Barry Conrad
Yes. Joanne on Facebook says, do you still recommend feels gummies?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, Joanne, thank you so much for your question. So this is perfect timing because I do still love Feels. So Feels is a CBD brand, and it's one I've been using for years and years. And I never actually took the gummies because I like just like straight up CBD without anything that would break my fast or something like that.

We recently found, I'm so excited, a new CBD company that I am so excited about. So they are called Tanasi, and I had a call with one of the founders and what makes their CBD really unique. Oh, which by the way, so Barry, do you use CBD?

Barry Conrad
I have in the past, but I don't currently. I have definitely used it before though, which really helps you to relax.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. I've been using it for years and years every night. It's really good for helping to modulate your natural cannabinoid receptors and helps with endogenous production of these cannabinoids. So basically, it can be really great for stress relief, sleep, muscle pain, whatever it may be. It can be really helpful.

And I had not heard this before. So Tenasi, they make a patented CBD plus CBD A formula and they have studies on it and it is two times better than CBD alone. And it's even better. It's been shown to be better than over-the-counter pain relievers like acetaminophen and supporting your body's response to inflammation. So basically, it can help with pain and inflammation, but in a healthy way where it's working with your body, not just giving you a drug that's making things more problematic in the long term. But all of their studies is on this special formulation they have that nobody else is doing. And the products are really great.

And by the way, so I'm going to tell you what's in the products, for example, when I originally came across them, I was not going to partner with them because they had outdated labels on their website, which showed... They used to have more additives in it is my point. And I had a call with the founder and I was like, I love this idea because I wasn't familiar about this specific form of CBD plus CBD A. I was like, but I can't really partner with you guys because of the other ingredients. And then that's when he realized in real time that their website was outdated. So I'm holding the products in my hand right now so I can tell you literally what's in it. So for example, they have a tincture form and it has the CBD. So it has four milligrams of cannabinoids per drop. And all it contains is MCT oil and then the CBD. So there's no, yeah, nothing problematic. It's THC free. So there's that. They also have a lotion. So if you want to do topical absorption for pain relief, that is an option as well. And then they also have another topical version that is just almond oil, beeswax, and the CBD-C-B-D-A formula. So I am such a fan of CBD. I think it can have really profound effects on people's sleep and stress and mood. It helps my sleep so much. I'm just thinking about what I use it the most for. And I think, yeah, I love it for sleep. And I love this brand. I'm so happy that I found them. And I'm so happy that they reformulated to have this pure form that I'm really excited about.

I also talk to them as well because they don't say that it's organic or anything like that, but they do heavy, extensive. He was very clear on this that in order to have the effects that are shown in the studies, it has to be rigorously controlled. So it's super pure, tested to only contain what it says on the bottle. And I'm excited. So if listeners would like to try it, you can go to tenasi.com and use the code IFPODCAST and that will get you 25% off, which is amazing. So oh, and you also get free shipping over $75. So definitely, definitely do that.

Melanie Avalon
That's T-A-N-A-S-I.com. Use the promo code IFPODCAST to get 25% off and you also get free shipping over $75. So yeah, I'm really excited to have found this brand.

Barry Conrad
So good, Mel, and now I'm also curious to jump back into CBD land again.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I know I jumped in and I never left. Like I, I, I'm serious. Like I, I started it. It's funny because when we first started taking sponsors on this show, like years and years and years ago, I remember cause CBD was like really controversial for a while, you know, cause because of the whole, you know, comes from the marijuana plant, the hemp plant. And I remember there was like an explosion and like all these CBD brands were, were reaching out like so many. I think we literally got pitched by a CBD brand like every week. And the only one I felt good about was feels, which I, I still do love feels as well. And, but now it's just like so normal. Like I don't even feel like I have to, you know, it's just like completely normal to talk about, which I'm so, I'm so glad about it.

I'm so happy that those regulations, you know, that this happened and you, if you want to like look into it more, I know there's a whole historic historical reason about problems with the hemp plant and it had nothing to do with like CBD. It had to do with because it was being used, I think for like paper production. I don't even know. There was something like, there was like a lot of politicalness behind it all. But yeah, my point is I never, ever since I started using CBD, I literally use it every night of my life. Like it is a game changer for me. Helps me fall asleep, but it helps me stay asleep. That's what I really find. And I find like, if I wake up in the middle of the night for whatever reason and can't get back to sleep, which is rare these days, but it does happen. I'll, you know, have some CBD from the tincture and I'm, I fall back asleep. It's so great.

Barry Conrad
Definitely did help me sleep now. Yeah, it's just just just relax and just like helps you with anxiety And if you're feeling overwhelmed as well, I remember that as well.

And if your mind's racing, so I totally get that

Melanie Avalon
And actually, I've been having some shoulder pain. I just realized, I'm gonna put this on there. Man, I wish I had done it earlier during the podcast. I could have like in real time reported back. What's wrong with your shoulder, what happened? I don't know, I pulled something like years ago, but it's like flaring up for some reason. So yes, so that is my CBD update.

And I am currently literally massaging the oil beeswax one on my sore tendon. So we shall see.

Barry Conrad
See, listeners, Mel, honestly, Mel, whatever Melanie talks about, she literally really does use, even after the podcast when we're talking on the phone, we talk about the same stuff. So it's like she uses this and I'm so pumped that you're using it in real time for everyone.

That's funny and awesome.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm so happy we're having this conversation because I don't think it would have occurred to me to, I'm gonna report back, I'll report back next week. Wait, can it really work that fast?

Barry Conrad
What, you can feel the difference? I think so. That's awesome. It feels like it. Why report next week when you can report next moment?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I know. Okay, I'm going to use this. I'm going to go through this bottle. Awesome. All right.

Thank you again so much, Joanne, for your question. And yeah, definitely check out Tenasi and get that 25% off and the free shipping.

Barry Conrad
Awesome!

Melanie Avalon
Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
Couldn't be more ready. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Okie dokie. So the intention of this part of the show is the health benefits of fasting are not due to just the fasting. They are also due to the eating window. So we love celebrating breaking the fast and eating all the things and talking about what we would order by profiling different restaurants.

So Barry, do you have something for us? And also I really do think the CBD is working. There you go. Real time. Yes. Okay. Okay. So what is your restaurant for us today?

Barry Conrad
Okay, the restaurant is called Sexy Fish, and it's in London, UK, and I've just sent you the link now. And why this restaurant is special is because it's one of the most visually incredible-looking dining rooms in London. Damon and her sculptures, glowing ceilings, massive fish installations, fully a la carte with Japanese-inspired seafood and sushi, wine-less that's vast and global and built for big nights out, and apparently the vibe is high-energy, glamorous, loud dinner as a spectacle, basically. It's just, like, really outrageously beautiful. So let's check it out.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm Googling it for pictures.

Speaker 3
Oh, look at the bathroom. Is that the bathroom? The bathroom. Do you see the picture of the bathroom?

Barry Conrad
Think of the selfies, the obligatory selfies that you take.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Listeners, friends, look up the sexy fish, London.

The bathroom is like fish tails holding up seashell sinks and everything is pink and there are fishes and oh. And then the actual dining room is stunning with the lights and oh

Speaker 3
Oh, okay.

Barry Conrad
And this is the thing we talk about, like, you know, the, the lighting and the, the vibe adds to even before you take a bite or have a sip of wine or anything. It's just going to elevate, you know?

Yes. Yeah. So click on that ala carte situation there, that menu, and it's a very, very extensive menu. So yeah, there's lots here, lots, and it's not all, not just fish, but you'll see, you'll soon find out.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I like this menu. I like the vibe of the menu, even the menu. So vibe it is. Okay. So it's, it starts with, it starts with while you decide.

Barry Conrad
Do you remember, Mel, we had a restaurant that had a similar thing. Do you remember that?

I can't remember the name of it, but it was the only one that I can think of. It's like a while you decide on the appetizers. So on the while you decide, there's little bites here. Anything catching your eye there, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
The only thing I have not had squid before, have you? Yeah, you haven't. Yeah, and we talked about this. Yes.

Assuming it's not like fried, I think I would try maybe the salt and pepper squid. Oh, fun fact, I used to not eat pepper on anything. I don't know why, but I recently, oh, I know why. Because I was, I'm prepping for a show with a doctor who has a book about Ayurvedic medicine and literally she has like an entire chapter on turmeric. And I know turmeric curcumin from turmeric absorbs better with black pepper. So I started like adding black pepper. And then I started looking up the benefits of black pepper. I have become a black pepper fiend.

I now like, I use so much black pepper and I love that you like grind it, you know? Yeah. Actually, I got a blend. I got like a blend of like at Whole Foods. Whole Foods, they have like a black, white, green, organic pepper blend and a grinder. And so now I'm putting on everything. So my point is the salt and pepper squid, I might say hold the salt, but keep the pepper. you

Barry Conrad
I can definitely verify, not that I've eaten at this place, but salt and pepper squid in general as a dish is such a vibe and it's so delicious. And if they're grilling it and not frying it, but all both ways are good, but it's just so good, Mel.

And the, yeah, a bit of lemon juice on there, the salt and pepper, yeah, it's really, really good. Good choice.

Melanie Avalon
It's a weird texture, right? It's like gummy.

Speaker 3
ish.

Barry Conrad
It's maybe weird if you haven't had it, but it's not that hard to eat. Some people think it's gross because it's kind of tough or a little bit tough. But yeah, you have to try it, I guess.

Melanie Avalon
Have to get it here at sexy fish are you gonna get something from the while you decide menu.

Barry Conrad
I would definitely get the, the a five wagyu toast sounds interesting to me. I don't know. Yeah. It just sounds good with truffle mayo and then the King crab croquettes.

I do like anything crab. Why not?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. And then we're entering berry territory. Tabiar and oysters. Berry texted me a picture the other day of a shirt where the emblem, like the logo, wasn't oyster.

Barry Conrad
It's like an oyster shirt. I just actually laughed in the store and they were like, are you okay?

Melanie Avalon
So funny. Oh, and they've got they've got the caviar that we've talked about the beluga one. That's super expensive

Barry Conrad
It seems to be a theme so I feel like are we gonna like are we meant to be having this blue together.

Melanie Avalon
We must have beluga, yeah, I think.

Barry Conrad
Blue energy. Anything catch your eye out of the caveat there? I know you don't.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, beluga.

Barry Conrad
Beluga. Beluga all day.

Melanie Avalon
How about you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, beluga for the table, and then I can't not have oysters, so these galato oysters, I'm gonna get a dozen of those babies. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Okay, and then moving on. I haven't skipped ahead. I'm going like in order like in real time Now we're at the sushi counter

Barry Conrad
Yum, I love sushi.

Melanie Avalon
They have a sashimi section, so I would get the sake, the salmon Scotland. So the Scottish salmon sashimi.

Barry Conrad
Sashimi's so good because like, you know, we're talking about lean protein before. This is the perfect example of this. You could just eat platters of the stuff.

Melanie Avalon
Except salmon is actually not that lean, but it is an example though of protein.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I would get the, what would I get? I'm going to get the Zuwagani, Zuwagani snow crab.

Melanie Avalon
Mm, I would have some of that too. Oh yeah, yeah, I want some of that. I would actually want to get, you know what? I would want to get the snow crab and the king crab from Norway, the terra bagani. So then I could, I love, if there's something I love, I love like tasting and comparing different things. Like I want to go to a restaurant where there's like steak tastings, where it would be like the different, that's what I would like. Like, you know, if the meal was like a sliver of like filet and ribeye and pecana and like all these different types, like I like comparing things. I think I just love doing it.

So I would want to get the two crabs and compare them.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yum. I was actually eyeing the same one. It looks really good. We might have to have more later, but yeah, that's good. Anything from the marquee or the sexy signatures?

Melanie Avalon
We know we're in London because we've got prawn. Um, I might, I mean, if the wagyu and foie gras was on the table, I would have a bite of that.

Speaker 3
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
They don't have, oh, wait, oh, prawns are shrimp. I was like, they don't have shrimp, but they don't have just like straight up shrimp. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I would do the prawn burrata and caviar, but then also in the maki, I would, the smoked eel and foie gras sounds interesting to me.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's interesting. I would taste that, the eel, for sure.

Barry Conrad
I don't think I've tried Eel, I'd remember it if I did, I don't think I have.

Melanie Avalon
Have you seen an eel like at the aquarium? They are so scary.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, they're kind of out.

Melanie Avalon
They're so scary. They're like the scariest, I think they're the scariest animal.

They're not the scariest animal. Have you seen my, have you seen my posts of the Georgia aquarium that yields? Probably. They are terrifying. They're literally like nightmares incarnate. These are like the big eels, like the ones that are like, you know, six feet long. Yeah. I'm going to send you, I'm going to send you like a post and you'll see. They're scary.

Barry Conrad
I mean, they are scary, but I mean, they're not the scariest animal ever, like...

Melanie Avalon
Yes, they are. I'll send it to you and you'll see. Okay. They're terrifying.

Barry Conrad
Okay, let's go down to the next page, which is raw and chilled, or the skewers, they both look good.

Melanie Avalon
Oh now we have beef carpaccio. I want that.

And there are skewers. Grilled scallops. Yes. And grilled tiger prawn. Yes. And chicken yakitori. Is yakitori the spice or like a sauce or is it oh so it can just have salt or it can have a sauce on it.

Barry Conrad
It's grilled over charcoal often seasoned with salt or sweet soy glaze, literally meaning grilled bird. That sounds pretty good actually.

Melanie Avalon
and they have grilled octopus, they have so many things.

Barry Conrad
Well, actually, you know what, Mel, that whole skewer section, I would get one of each of those. There's glazed pork belly, grilled octopus, chicken yakitori, grilled tiger prawn, grilled scallops.

Have you tried tiger prawns, by the way?

Melanie Avalon
I don't think so because we don't really have prawns here.

Barry Conrad
It's so good. It's so good.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, wait, guess what Barry? I should have had more trust.

Speaking of like AI earlier, I should have had more trust in modern technology. So now you can just like, I just typed in eel and it found my pictures of the eel. I'm going to send this to you. You have to watch it. You have to click play.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, they actually are massive. That's not what I was picturing, so they're not nice at all.

Melanie Avalon
And they're like six feet long, and they're like, yeah, so, okay. Um, back to the menu. Are we at salads or this menu is confusing to me. There's so many sections.

Barry Conrad
There's salads and rubata, so side by side, so we have anything from the salad jumping out at you?

Melanie Avalon
No, I always pass the salads.

Barry Conrad
What about the robota?

Melanie Avalon
Although if I was getting a salad, they have what might be the most intriguing salad that looks delicious.

Barry Conrad
The crispy duck.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Crispy duck and watermelon with pomegranate. That's cool. Not getting it, but that's cool. Okay. Robota.

Barry Conrad
And that means a method of cooking food over a hot charcoal grill. So basic, literally like fireside cooking. So that's going to be really good, Mel. That's going to all be really good, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
They have an Australian prime ribeye. I actually don't know if I would get anything from this section. Do you see? Maybe grilled lobster. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I would do the grilled lobster and definitely the caramelized lamb rack with red yuzu kosho and herbs. That sounds so good.

Speaker 3
I'm.

Melanie Avalon
amazing. And then we are down to

Barry Conrad
We're almost done. It's a big menu. It's quite comprehensive.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder like when you go here, do you just order like lot like little, you know, different ones at a time, you just

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I kind of get that vibe as well. Like you just kind of, it's like a long booking. You just order.

Melanie Avalon
Like you just like keep ordering things? Oh, I know. I know what I want meal wise, but before that, what is guaiosa? What is guaiosa? Guiosa? Guiosa.

Barry Conrad
like a like a dumpling kind of a thing like you know like a dumpling I'm out no okay not really not really a dumpling it's like a pocket of it's like a okay it's like a Chinese dumpling but it's really honestly it's it's really really good trust me it's really really delicious

Melanie Avalon
I'm out for that. I'm out for that and I'm out for tempura because that means fried, right? Okay, good. So I can like ignore those categories. Are you getting anything?

Barry Conrad
I can probably pass on those too because there's so many other things here. There's the wagyu section.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, the wagyu section, very excited about. I want the Japanese A5. So they have a filet and they have a sirloin. I mean, they both look amazing, but honestly I could probably go the sirloin route.

Barry Conrad
Same. I would do the same. I prefer a solo in any way. That's my favorite.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, no, this will be an example where I want to do both. So this is the example so that I can like compare. So like one A5 sirloin, one A5 filet, and then do a tasting.

Barry Conrad
Okay, looks like last but not least, any of these rice and veggies and noodles intrigue you in any way.

Melanie Avalon
No, I just read the category and I'm I'm out again. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I would I'm sort of tempted to at least try some of the well definitely have steamed rice because I love steamed rice But then I want to just have like a bite of the lobster udon ramen because I love udon and I love lobster, so

Melanie Avalon
And then they have treats add-ons. Apparently, we could have been adding. They should have put this at the top of the menu.

Because how many people are going to start at the top and not realize? So you can add on caviar or black truffle to anything.

Barry Conrad
It's actually quite a decadent, it's quite a lot of food.

Melanie Avalon
Are you a truffle fan? Have you had black truffle?

Barry Conrad
Yes. I am a truffle fan. Yeah, they should have put that at the top.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think I've actually had black truffle.

Barry Conrad
It's pretty yum. Should we go to the dessert? Oh, this is a very big dessert menu.

Melanie Avalon
Although I need to stay on this menu because I'm going to get for dessert, this is the perfect menu to have a savory dessert because I could just order another of whatever I had most enjoyed. So I probably might get like more sashimi or more carpaccio or more, you know, more of something.

Barry Conrad
I'm just going to get the chocolate fondant on the dessert menu and the

Melanie Avalon
I'm supposed to guess, don't-

Barry Conrad
and okay I'll get I'm getting one other one what's the other one do you think I'll get

Melanie Avalon
Well, I would have said chocolate fondant, obviously. And then second one, do you maybe want to try the cinnamon donut?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I actually would I actually would do the term term a cookie

Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. I was looking at that too. That looks cool. Kalua, coffee, and marshmallow.

Barry Conrad
It's like tiramisu, but tiramucucchi.

Melanie Avalon
That's cool.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so I reckon I'll do that and then there's some cocktails on the side there. Definitely going to go for a Don Julio Espresso Martini. That sounds really yummy. Because this kind of place is quite different, so I'll do that.

They have a wine list? They do. So go back to the click back and then there's wine and sake. Yay. Have you had a good day? Have you had a good day? Have you had a good day? Have you had a good day? Have you had a good day?

Melanie Avalon
had sake before I've definitely been at a place and people had it but I don't think I did I definitely had it like when I was I didn't have it but I went when I was in LA and we went downtown somewhere and like sake was happening but I don't think I had it how about you

Barry Conrad
I have had it. It's not it's not my favorite thing or maybe I just haven't had a good experience, but it's I find it heavier than Yeah, I find it pretty heavy to drink but it's an experience for sure.

Extensive list here by the way of wines.

Melanie Avalon
So basically, whenever it comes to wine for listeners, they know my protocol. I have to... Well, I now have my chat trained, so I have like a chat thing. I just take a picture of the menu, I give it a chat, and then it tells me what is organic, what is lower alcohol, what has minimal sulfites or low sulfites, and then I go that route. So okay, they have a lot of wines on this list, so I feel confident that I can find something easily.

Probably will be a French wine of sorts. This is a really big list.

Barry Conrad
It is actually, I would definitely get a bottle of sablee as well. Like a good white, especially all the fish we're having, yeah. I'm with like the lobster and stuff, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, maybe like a nice light gamay from France. Which speaking of tomorrow, I am going to a level two wine tasting course. Remember I told you that I went to like the level one tasting course here. And I, do you remember that story? I like basically they thought I was really stupid cause I, cause like the entire class were, was like older people who were there to learn about wine. And then I walked in like clearly like with the influencer tickets and looking really stupid and then I was tasting the wines and I was tasting the wrong wines from, but then I won the exam at the end. And so I'm going back to level two tomorrow.

They're having me back. So shout out by the way to Vino venue in Atlanta. If anybody lives in Atlanta and they ever want to do any sort of wine class or like wine tasting, they literally have classes all the time. Like their calendar is crazy. So their website is vino venue.com. B-I-N-O-B-E-N-U-E.com. And you can check out all their things. So I'm going to that tomorrow. And do you want to come?

Barry Conrad
I would love to come to something like that, I'd love to go to that. You're going to smash it, by the way, you're going to be so good.

Melanie Avalon
I'm nervous. I feel like I got a I wonder if there's gonna be an exam at the end again, probably.

Barry Conrad
There'll be another story to go along with that so I can't wait.

Melanie Avalon
probably about how I like don't win and I'm tragically torn.

Barry Conrad
You drinks like so many great wines, you're going to be fine.

Melanie Avalon
We'll see. The thing I'm excited about is apparently at this class, this is something that I've wanted to do for so long. Apparently we'll find out if they actually do it.

Apparently they have like a, cause you know like they'll talk about when you're wine tasting, like all of the different aromas and like flavors. Yes. So apparently there's like a sniffing board. So we're going to smell the different things. Like the actual, like, so like, because I realized like when I make wine notes, I'll be like, oh, this is like current and like, you know, ramble berry, but I don't actually know what those.

Speaker 3
taste like. So you smell it first, then taste it, then say...

Melanie Avalon
I have no idea. They just said that they said they used to do it in level one, but it got too complicated So now it's only in level two.

And so here we go Sniffing board here. I come so but in any case, this is a great find Sexy fish this may be I should be keeping an ongoing list.

This might be up there for ones. I want to go to the most

Barry Conrad
Well, it's very U-coded and like visually anyway, and also with the sashimi piece as well.

Melanie Avalon
It's literally everything I like. The vibe looks amazing. The bathrooms look, I can't even. And then I can just order lots of meat and fish without like just meat and fish, like on repeat, like rinse and repeat. Sounds like Melanie Heaven.

I know. Sexy fish, come to Atlanta, please. Awesome. Well, this was so much fun. Friends, we hope you had the best time with us. If you would like to submit your own questions for this show, you can directly email questions at ifodcast.com, or you can go to ifodcast.com and submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 478. They will have a transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram, we are ifodcast. I am Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
No, this has been an amazing episode. Thanks so much for tuning in again, everyone, and chat to you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, I'll talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week, bye!

Melanie Avalon
Bye! Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week!

Jun 08

#477 – Struggling To Change Your Eating Window, Safe Non Toxic Mattresses, Fasting Longevity Benefits, Over Fasting Problems, Does Gum Break The Fast, Artificial Sweetener Problems, And More!

Welcome to Episode 477 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

Go to Leesa.com for 25% PLUS get an extra 350 off with promo code IFPODCAST,
exclusive for my listeners.

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

SUNLIGHTEN:

Sunlighten is a leader in infrared sauna technology, delivering targeted wavelengths that support cellular energy, detoxification, relaxation, cardiovascular health, and longevity. With ultra-low EMF, no off-gassing materials, and over 25 years of innovation, it’s a luxurious, science-backed way to support your health from the comfort of your own home! (Melanie is obsessed with the solo unit!) Get up to $1,600 off + FREE shipping at get.sunlighten.com/ifpodcast

TANASI:

LMNT

LMNT is a zero-sugar electrolyte drink that supports hydration, energy, brain function, and muscle performance with a science-backed blend of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. Staying hydrated is especially important during the summer months, whether you’re traveling, spending time outdoors, working out, sweating more in the heat, or following a low-carb or whole-food diet. With clean ingredients and refreshing flavors, LMNT makes hydration easy and enjoyable all summer long. Get your free Sample Pack with any LMNT purchase at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast.

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 477 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 477 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. I'm doing great. Today has been a really, really great day.

I, after many, many months of, well, not many, many, but many weeks of hunting, I finally kicked off banter with BC here in New York City.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, congratulations!

Barry Conrad
Thanks. So because for me, I guess Melanie already knows this, but being Aussie, it was, it was super important for me to like keep that Aussie connection.

So I was sort of one of the partner with the Aussie owned hospitality group. And so I did, like I did back in Sydney. So I've teamed up with this amazing players called parched HG. So they have like Daintree and, and Ireland co and it was actually founded by another Barry, Barry dry. So that's really good. And yeah, I'm just so excited. They, they have something called the Daintree rooftop. Melanie, I'm going to send it to you right now so you can see what I mean.

Melanie Avalon
The what rooftop?

Barry Conrad
Daintree i'm sending it to you right now you have to see this photo because this is the view. Okay one two three and if you look at the gallery that first photo with the empire state like it's just that's the backdrop so it's just amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, so you filmed there?

Barry Conrad
So film in there, which is awesome. So did the first episode this morning and it's so beautiful, so lush, and it kind of feels like that like escape from middle of Manhattan with this incredible view. And I couldn't have, you know, I couldn't have won a better, more iconic space. So I'm really, really excited. It's taken so long, but it's just, I'm so glad, you know, just yeah, stoked.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, congratulations. So are they, is it like a partnership collaboration where they let you film there and you are promoting them in the show?

Barry Conrad
Yes, so sort of like how I, well, like I did in Sydney as well, the same sort of thing. So I'm excited. Wow.

Melanie Avalon
This is awesome. Now you've got me brainstorming.

I'm like, hmm, maybe I should reach out to locations to get filming locations for projects to collaborate with. Congratulations. Who was the first guest?

Barry Conrad
So the first guest was actually fittingly an Australian. Her name is Kyla Bartholomew and she is currently on chess on Broadway and she did Hamilton on Broadway. Yeah, she's amazing. And Mel, like, I don't know if you probably get this all the time, but you meet someone that has like a billion mutual friends with you, but you never met them until this point. So that was her today.

Like I'd known about her. I'm best friends with friends of hers. So we've been at same after parties, just never met. And now we got to break bread literally on the show and she was so inspiring. Oh my goodness.

Melanie Avalon
And I love, I mean, both of the shows you mentioned, I love chess and I love, wait, was she in it with Josh Groban? Or she's in it now?

Barry Conrad
She's in it now with Leah Michelle. Yeah, it's a mate like, yeah, she's incredible. She's like a super swing as well, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Aaron, what's his name is in it right now?

Barry Conrad
Yes, exactly. That's the guy.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, he is one of my favorite Broadway actors of all time.

Barry Conrad
He's really good. Maybe he might be on the show, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see, but yeah, she was amazing.

Melanie Avalon
I would literally, I would fly up there for it.

Barry Conrad
be there like just to be there in the

Melanie Avalon
I'll be, I mean, are you doing like, cause I know when you were doing filming in Australia, you would have people in the background who are like actually eating. So when you film there, are you, is it closed or are people there?

Barry Conrad
It's closed. I mean, for the first episode, it was closed because it's like it's literally not open yet for the day.

But I mean, you could still be there just having a cocktail off camera or on camera.

Melanie Avalon
I'll just be like in the background, like the one person in the background having some wine except not because it's during the day. What's it called? Oh, what's it called? When a cameo.

Barry Conrad
A cameo, yeah. So I will say that today I didn't fast because I, because the show, the only availability we have is in the mornings on Mondays.

So, which is totally fine, but it's an example of, I guess, for our listeners flexible, being flexible with your windows. So today I started eating this morning, like 10 AM.

Melanie Avalon
It's a perfect example of not letting your fasting window negatively impact on your actual

Barry Conrad
life. And then tomorrow we just jump back into the regular. No, no sweat.

Melanie Avalon
Do you feel any less like on point when you've eaten earlier?

Barry Conrad
It's really weird, but I think because this sort of, I did this in Sydney as well, because we'd have shows from like 12 or 1pm, so it was always not my traditional window. I'm just kind of used to it.

It sort of doesn't count. I'm just like, that's just like a show day. It doesn't really bother me at all. I don't really feel any different.

Melanie Avalon
awesome possum. That's how we're different. I like go into a coma. I'm like not productive if I eat earlier. It's not good.

I was actually talking with somebody two days ago. I was explaining because I was going to meet friends for a show appropriately enough and they were getting dinner before. So I joined like a little bit later and just got drinks rather than dinner. And I was explaining why. And I was explaining that once I have my window and eat, then I'm kind of just like lethargic and I want to go to bed. And he was like, are you sure you're not like diabetic? And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm not diabetic, but I can see how it could be confusing because that is also like also a sign of like poor blood sugar regulation is, you know, eating and then getting like tired or not being able to perform. But it's a different thing.

It's because I do my like one intense meal every night and my body is circadianly and trained with it. And it's like bedtime and I also eat like a massive feast. So yeah.

Barry Conrad
I will say, Mel, I do, I do feel more relaxed, like, you know, you, that relaxed sort of stay, and I didn't want to do any admin stuff. I had to learn stuff for a self tape. I didn't necessarily feel as like, yeah, let's do stuff, but you just, you just have to switch gears and just go with it. You know, I haven't snacked to anything throughout the day, which is good.

Melanie Avalon
Are you gonna eat again or is that your meal?

Barry Conrad
I ate again just before we started recording. It had like a whole bunch of beef, rice, vegetables. It was delicious.

Melanie Avalon
But not again after this. Probably not. Well, how can people, so is it still called Bantor with BC and everything?

Barry Conrad
It's still called Banter with BC. And by the time this airs, the new season will be out. So you can find it on YouTube, Apple Music, Spotify, my Instagram page. It's, yeah, it's a lot of fun.

You get to actually watch us eat and drink and connect with, I connect with leaders in culture and entertainment and it's really fun and inspiring. So check it out, Banter with BC.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, congratulations again.

So very exciting. What about you? I am good. So I wanted to tell you about one of the products of one of our sponsors that I am obsessed with. Tell me. Which you already know, but I'm going to actually tell you in real time. And this is actually a big deal for this show because I think, do you remember the G.O.A.T. mattress story?

Barry Conrad
No, but tell me.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I've had an obsession. Well, first of all, sleep is very important. We talk about sleep all the time. And most people spend a third of their lives asleep. So that means like a third of your life is spent on a mattress. So needless to say, your mattress is very important for your health and wellness, like so important.

And I think people, I don't know, people might try to like save on a mattress or skim on a mattress, but it's like, literally like a third of your life during the time that you're, that you're like recovering and, you know, your immune system is working and you need to be getting the best state to be in is spent on a mattress. So this, the goat mattress story, this hearkens back to early in this show, but it was really important to me. I was researching about all of the toxins that are in a lot of modern mattresses. Like they can be really bad, like not just like off gassing when you first get it, but like toxic fiberglass and you know, materials that have endocrine disruptors and it's just not good. So way back in the day, like probably 2017 or so, I found a natural mattress back then it was called, I don't even remember the name of the brand, but the reason I bought it was because it was made with like no fiberglass, no flame protectants or no like toxic flame protectants. And instead it used all natural like goat fur. So this is not ringing a bell, this or goat hair.

Barry Conrad
Actually, yeah, it actually does ring a bell.

Melanie Avalon
The story was that I got that mattress and then it literally smelled like goats and the whole first night I dreamed all about goats. We affectionately call it the goat mattress on this show. The goat mattress is no longer with us because I got a new mattress and I'm really excited about it.

The brand is Lisa and they have a lot of options for mattresses. You can go and take a sleep quiz and they have ones for if you sleep hot and different comfort levels and all the things. The one though that I am advocating for and the one that I got is they actually partnered with West Elm for it. It's their Lisa plus West Elm natural hybrid mattress and it's the one that they made to be super non-toxic. The majority of their mattresses, they're really good with what they're doing but this is the one that's all the things. For example, it's like eight layers and then multiple of the layers are I'll just tell you. The top layer is 100% organic cotton cover. Then there's a New Zealand wool top that is global organic textile standard certified. Go New Zealand. Oh yeah. 100% and then there's a memory foam layer that is Serti Pure US certified, a natural latex layer that is also that global organic latex certified and then there's a comfort foam layer, a core support foam layer and a high density base support foam and they are all that Serti Pure US certified and then there's like a spring system. But the entire product, that Serti Pure US certification helps with a lot of the toxins and things like that and then the entire product is Green Guard gold certified which means it's certified for low chemical emissions. It has a chemical free, fiberglass free, fire barrier. It's designed and assembled in the USA. To give more information about the Serti Pure US certification, that means it's made without ozone depleters, no PBDE flame retardants, no heavy metals, no formaldehyde, low VOC emissions. And then the Green Guard, they rigorously test for 360 volatile organic compounds to make sure it's free from harmful chemicals. Yeah, so it's basically all about having a healthy, safe mattress and so again, I ordered it for the safety. I was like, I just hope it feels well because I'm going here for the safety, non-toxic aspect of it. Oh my goodness, I am... Okay, wait, actually, really quick tangent, I am so happy. So a few things, a few things here. One, I was really stressed because the idea of getting rid of my old mattress, I don't know, I just like not stressed emotionally. I am kind of sad about that, but not really, but like physically, it is so hard to like deal with mattresses. Not easy. So thankfully, Lisa, they have like a system where they will come in and install your mattress and get rid of your old one. Easy breezy.

Barry Conrad
What? That's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
they did that for me. So it comes in a box. So it gets delivered.

Well, actually, let me backtrack. You can set it up for them to do that when you order it, which is what I should have done, but we didn't. So you can also add it on after the fact. So we did that and then basically they sent the mattress, it was in a box and then the people came and they like set it up for me, got rid of my old one. But I had a huge decision. Okay, so your bed, how high off the floor is it?

Barry Conrad
maybe just a little bit above my knee, maybe like, I don't know, maybe my upper thigh kind of thing, sort of.

Melanie Avalon
Probably like a normal bed, probably.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I need more storage space in my apartment and also I was kind of alert by the idea of like a really high bed. So I got a new bed frame that's like very tall. So now I have to like jump up onto my bed. It's like being a little kid. Remember like when you're a little kid and like it's hard to get up onto the bed.

Barry Conrad
I need to see a visual of this. This is awesome.

Melanie Avalon
It's so high, it's so great. And I can store so much stuff under it. I'm literally so happy.

Well, that's good. Yeah, it's really fun. Except I have to literally, like I said, hop in and out of it. But the actual mattress, and I promise I'll stop talking about it, but it feels so good. It's so great. I'm so happy. Yeah. Every night now, I'm just like so happy.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Cause you were saying before as well, like what Barry, what I'm going to do with my old mattress, it's so hard to get rid of it as well.

And I'm glad that's so seamless the way they do it at least. So that's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it was super easy. And it feels so good. So I highly, highly recommend, again, it's called Lisa West Elm Natural Hybrid Mattress. And we do have a link for listeners. So if you go to lisa.com, which is l-e-e-s-a.com and use the coupon code IF podcast, you will get, and this changes around a little bit, but I think when this airs, it will be 25% off select mattresses plus an extra $350 off with the code IF podcast. So lisa.com, L-e-e-s-a.com, promo code IF podcast for 25% off select mattresses plus an extra $350 off. So yeah, friends, check it out.

And like I said, they have other mattresses as well, but I'm really, really liking this natural, natural one. Awesome. Okay. On that note, shall we jump into some fasting relating topics?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it!

Melanie Avalon
Do you have a study to start us out with?

Barry Conrad
I sure do. The study I brought today is called Silencing Lipid Catabolism Determines Longevity in Response to Fasting. This was actually published in April this year, so pretty recent, pretty current. I love this because it's basically like a massive plate of food for thought, and I reckon it could really challenge how people think about fasting, especially in the IF world.

A quick context for everybody as well. This is actually about tiny worms, not humans, but go with me. Go with me. It's going to all make sense. There's no human age or height or weight data or anything like that, but very controlled lab conditions. Scientists do use these models a lot because the basic way cells use and store energy is not dissimilar. Here we go. Go with me here. What happened in the study? They had these worms fast for 24 hours early in adulthood and then fed them again. That alone extended their lifespan by about 40.8%, which is massive, during the fast, exactly what you'd expect to happen. They burned and burned and burned through that fat, that stored fat. Their fat stores dropped by around 61%, which is awesome. So far, nothing surprising, but then the researchers asked a really important question. They were like, is that fat burning actually the reason they lived longer? They basically blocked the worm's ability to properly break down and use the fat. Even when they did that, the worm still got the lifespan benefits from the fasting. So at least in this study, it sort of suggests that it's not just about burning more fat. Here's the part that I wanted to highlight because though it's about worms, what did seem important was what happened after the fast when the worms started eating again. So their bodies needed to switch out of fat burning mode and then back into feeding and rebuilding mode. For listeners joining us, new listeners, think of it like going from burning fuel to actually refilling the tank again and cleaning things up, doing repairs. This switch is controlled by, how do you say, certain signals in the body. Specific proteins like NH-R49, NKIN-19, and those help turn down fat burning once the food is available. Basically, it means your body needs to know when to start breaking things down and start building things back up. The researchers messed with that switch. When they messed with that switch, the worms basically, they were stuck in fat burning mode all the time, but the benefits almost disappeared. So their lifespan boost dropped to around 6% when they messed with that switch. So more time burning fat didn't mean better results, which is another point. So it actually seemed to make things worse in this case. So let's bring it back to us now. Let's bring it back to humans. And how does this apply to us? It's not exactly the same. These are worms. They're not people. So I have to be careful what I'm saying here, but it doesn't mean it's not a useful thought. So with us humans, we do know that being able to switch between fuel sources, going from using sugar when you've eaten to using fat when you haven't eaten is generally really good.

Barry Conrad
It's a good thing. And that's often called metabolic flexibility, and it's linked to a bit of health. But what this study adds is another idea to think about, which is it suggests that the end of your fast when you start eating again is just as important as the fast. So in the worms, when they ate again, their bodies restored energy. We build fat stores. Basically, we set things after the stress of fasting. And when that reset didn't happen properly, the energy systems didn't recover as well. So though it's not exactly the same, we work. It does line up with something pretty practical. And so if someone is constantly trying to fast for longer and longer, skipping meals or staying in a calorie deficit all the time, because they think more fasting sort of equals better results. This study, hopefully, is food for thought to suggest it might not be that simple.

The eating phase, it's not just a break. It's part of the process. And that's also why we talk about the restaurant segment on the show. It's where your body gets to recover, and we build and actually benefit from the stress you put it through. And the takeaway I really want people to have is, intermittent fasting. It works best because you're not fasting for as long as possible, but because you're creating a rhythm that works for your body and with your body. You fast, you stress the system a bit, and you let it recover. Even though we obviously need more human research to really confirm all of this applies to us, it's just a good thought and reminder that more isn't necessarily always better. Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
It ties to the, I think, a reason that we often end the show with our proverbial breaking of the fast because it speaks to how, you know, it's not just the fasting that is doing the benefits. It's going back and forth between the two stages of the fasted state and the fed state. So I love that it emphasizes that.

And then I love, you know, how you started off by saying that, you know, are the benefits just due to the fat burning, which I think that is something that is not, well, maybe it's the same thing. I feel like there's often this thought out there that are the benefits of fasting just because of accidental calorie restriction or are the health benefits just because people are losing weight? Is it not the actual fasting itself per se? Like could you just lose weight and get the benefits? And I think this, you know, speaks to that, that it's like things on a cellular and genetic level, epigenetic level that is creating so many of the health benefits, not necessarily just the weight loss per se.

Barry Conrad
Exactly. And we see articles all the time, Mel, and a lot of things sensationalized online about it's just restricting calories. That's the only reason why this works, why this is, it's just a trend. But time and time again, we can week out when we bring these studies, they just keep on touching on the fact that there's so much more going on than just calories in, calories out. And I hope it doesn't sound like a broken record, but it's really true.

So much happening on that cellular level, for sure.

Melanie Avalon
so so true and yeah no and thank you for finding this i'm looking at the i always like to look at the researchers and see if i like recognize anybody from the from the stuff but awesome awesome awesome we will put a link to this in these show notes okay shall we jump into some listener questions

Barry Conrad
Let's get some listener questions going. So the first one we have out the gate is from Amy. And Amy says, at certain times of the year, I'm unable to eat during my typical eating window. And I end up having to shift it several hours later for a few months. What are some things I can do to make it an easier transition?

Is that normal to struggle with change in the window? My body seems to love it when I go back to my winter window. Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, Amy. Well, thank you so much for your questions. So a few things here. So basically, you know, you have your window for, is it the majority of the year? Yeah, for the majority of the year you have, it sounds like an earlier eating window. And then for a few months, you are eating, you know, later than you would like. And so as far as is it normal to struggle with changing? Yes.

So eating is really, really intensely tied to our circadian rhythm. And that's actually a reason, that's a reason that fasting is so powerful because it gives our body, like our cells and our body all have their own rhythms. And it's really healthy to have consistency with those rhythms. Same thing with sleep. Like they say, like, even if you don't have like the ideal amount of hours or you don't have the ideal sleep schedule, what you really want is consistency. And so with the eating windows, same thing, like having the consistency can be really great. And especially if you aren't changing it at all, because we were talking earlier on the show about the benefits of, you know, mixing things up. So I'm not talking about that right now. I'm just talking about like, if you are consistently having the same eating window all the time, and then you shift it to a different thing. Yeah, it's kind of like a, like a metabolic jet lag because your body, all of your hormones have been adapted to that other window. And so, so yeah, it completely makes sense that it can be a little bit of a struggle. And it sounds like for you, so like I eat really late, for example, but it sounds like for you, you're, you're probably more in line with a common thing we see, which is that insulin sensitivity is typically higher earlier in the day, eating later, unless you're a unicorn like me, can be, you know, a little bit harder for some people.

So as far as like strategy strategies and how to adjust this. So I don't know, it sounds like you're just shifting the window, that you're not, you know, changing the actual time that you're eating. But if you are, that's something you could try is where you make sure that you're still fasting the same amount of time, you're just shifting the timing of the window, which your body, speaking of it being like habitual and circadian rhythm, it will adapt over time. So that will happen naturally. But you can adjust it as well with things like exercise and light to get a more ideal like you can, you can signal circadian rhythms to your body. It like you can do factors that will help make everything easier. So for example, having your light in the morning to kind of anchor your circadian rhythm and then fasting. And then at night, if you are, you know, going later, you might keep the lights on, like do like keep the lights on later to like signal to your body that you're going to be eating later. Like you can adjust things accordingly to it. And then, you know, after eating, making the, putting the lights down again, things like exercise. So if you are, I guess it depends on what type of movement you're doing right now, but if you, whatever you were doing in your prior window, if you could adjust that accordingly.

Melanie Avalon
So basically just making it so that you're shifting everything, I think will help make the transition easier rather than not shifting anything except the window, because then that can be a little bit more jarring. But instead you can kind of just like shift everything that you're doing. And then I don't know what you're, cause you say that you are struggling. So I don't know what the struggle actually is. I'm assuming it's probably, I guess it could be hunger. It could be sleep. So I guess the question is like, what are you struggling with? Cause that would also determine the advice there.

So if it's things like hunger. So if it's things like hunger, we love, well, we love coffee around here. So making coffee your friend, especially glow coffee, my coffee, which you can get at glowcoffeeco.com staying busy during your like prior eating window, which I'm assuming that probably, I mean, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but I'm assuming it's probably something about your like work or social life that causes this. So you probably are staying busy now naturally during when you were eating. But if you're not, that can be helpful because then that's going to help, you know, break the habit loop, blunt your appetite, all the things. If you find that you, again, it depends on like how you were exercising before, but you could try doing light movement or resistance training nearer to your new eating window to help kind of pull your hunger signals to that time. If it's on the sleep side of things, then sleep is so, so important. If that's what it's messing with, because now you're eating later, then making sure that, I guess it depends. I just don't know enough information. I guess it depends like how quick you're sleeping after you're eating. But if you're not sleeping, like right after eating, you could go on a light walk after eating to help process that. That really helps with insulin sensitivity and blood sugar control. Anything you can do to help support your sleep during this time will make things easier for all of it.

And it also can relate to your dopamine response to things because our brain loves habits. So we released dopamine, which is a feel good neurotransmitter. And the purpose of it is for us to seek out and do things that help us live as a species and do all the things. And the interesting thing is people often think that it gets released once you do the thing that makes you happy, but it actually gets released before you do the thing that makes you happy. So like when you find something that works for you then and your body wants to make it into a habit, then you start getting dopamine releases before it happens. So when you have your window that you like for the majority of the month, you're probably getting a dopamine release before you eat because it's part of your pattern and all the things. And so you there's kind of like a lag where this has to catch up for the dopamine to be reallocated to the new eating timing. So my point is it's not all in your head. It is normal to struggle with transitions.

Melanie Avalon
Your body, what this what this says to me is your body probably does like all things aside prefer the earlier eating window. But there are a lot of things that you can do with your environment, your light, your sleep to make the new window work for you while you are doing it. So those are my thoughts.

Barry, do you have thoughts?

Barry Conrad
Mel, that was so detailed. I don't know how I could possibly add to that.

Amy, I agree with what Mel was saying. Like the uncomfortable phase that you're experiencing is not just voices in your head or, you know, anything like that. It's your body literally re-syncing. It's, and it does sound like that window is your home base sort of rhythm. And like Mel said, again, like using fasting tools like coffee is great. You're sparkling water, even moving your window an hour at a time can make such a difference and using your tools can maybe help smooth that gap when your usual eating time hits. And also I would say make the last meal really count. The last meal before the shift, Amy, so getting enough protein in there, volume, something that actually satisfies you as well, and give it some time, give it a week or so, and also consistency once your body really locks into the new rhythm. It's going to settle down. As Mel said, like our bodies love habit and they get used to things. So honestly, to me, like I think the fact that you can actually change it seasonally is a strength. I hope that doesn't feel as uncomfortable. You got to keep a source and let us know how you go.

Melanie Avalon
Now we have a question from Susie. Speaking of the goat mattress, having flashbacks to like early questions, I feel like when we first launched this show way back in the day, we had so many questions about like, does this break my fast? And we haven't done one of those in a while. So here we go from Susie.

The subject is gum. And Susie says, Hello, love the podcast. I started listening from episode one. I'm currently on episode 18. And by the way, this question is a little bit old. So she is probably farther along way now. The OCD inside of me won't let me listen unless it's in order. So you will probably answer my question way before I get to the episode you answered it in. We are now in episode 477. So if you're still with us, Susie, oh my goodness. Okay, so she says my question is about gum. Not sure if anyone else has asked. I know gum has sweetener in it, which will cause an insulin release. But I feel and many other friends and family that I recommend I have to feel that it will help make the fast go by easier if chewed. Even if a gum is zero calories, will it still break the fast? Sugar free gum is still not okay because of the artificial sweetener question mark. Is there any chewing gum that's okay to chew without it breaking my fast? Can't wait to hear your answer. Awesome.

Barry Conrad
Well, Susie, thanks for the question. And it's so funny that you're going, you're going episode by episode in order. That's commitment. So, props to you for that, I respect that.

And I'm laughing because I know what you mean because once I first started listening to the show, I had to go back and listen in order as well. So, you can't skip ahead, it's gonna feel wrong. Okay, about gum. So, this is one of those things that people have even said to me. They're like, I'm not eating, I'm just chewing gum. It's not really breaking the fast, I'm eating the food, I'm just chewing. And it can be gray in a gray area for a lot of people. You're exactly right about, even if it says zero calories, it does contain some sort of sweetness. So, that could be artificial sweeteners or like sugar alcohols. And even though the calorie content is technically pretty low, fasting is not just about calories and it's about what's happening metabolically. So, when you chew gum, a couple of things do happen here. So, first the act of even chewing, just chewing nothing, just chewing itself can actually stimulate digestion. Funnily enough, your body starts producing saliva, enzymes and basically like gets a signal that food might be coming in. So, then there's that sweet taste. I have it all the time when I look at delicious food that I'm not ready to eat yet. So, which for some people, that can trigger a small insulin response even, even if there's no actual sugar being taken in, which is wild. So, that is kind of where it can get confusing for some people because not everybody does have that exact same response. Some people can chew gum and quote unquote feel, feel fine or no increase in hunger necessarily or noticeable effect. And some people might straight away find it really, really hard to keep fasting. It keeps that sort of like an open door, like one of those hotel lobby doors, like those revolving doors, like a food loop open. So, it keeps the cravings going hard and can make the fasting window feel way longer than it needs to be. So, from a strict, strict clean eye of perspective, gum is generally considered to break the fast, not because it's dumping a bunch of calories into your system, but because it's literally interrupting that fully fasted, low insulin sort of digestive rest state, you know, that we're trying to go for here. Does it mean, doesn't mean that you've ruined everything and you should throw the baby out with the bath water? No, it doesn't mean that you should. And this is where I like to keep things a bit grounded in real life, Susie. If someone, okay, if someone's brand new to fasting and chewing gum is the difference between getting through the fast or not in the beginning, I understand why people use it completely. And it can feel like maybe a crutch in the beginning or something that's a comfort in the beginning. But what you often see over time is like that can become less helpful and more of a hindrance. So, it just keeps that constant stimulation going when part of fasting's benefit is actually giving your body a break from that.

Barry Conrad
And you're also saying if there's any gum that wouldn't break the fast. Well, realistically, anything with flavor or sweetness, even natural gums, like quote unquote natural, it's gonna create some level of response. So, if your goal is a true clean fast, gum doesn't really fit into that.

What I usually would suggest is instead of finding, like instead of finding alternatives that don't trigger that, that cycle, like black coffee is really good. And we talk about it all the time. It's a great thing if you can tolerate it. Sparkling water's really good. Some black tea can really give you that sensory hit. Even just water with a pinch of salt could help. Sometimes your body just needs extra electrolytes. There's also this sort of mindset shift that happens when you fast. So, at the start, it can feel like you need something to get you through. Like, I need something to tide me over. But actually over time, once your body really does adapt, the need for constant chewing and taste does actually drop away. I promise, it really does. And fasting actually becomes way more simple than you can imagine. And if you're zooming out again, if you're aiming for a clean fast, Susie, gum, you gotta kick the gum. Eventually, if you're using it occasionally as a stepping stone, totally understand. But long-term, you'll probably find fasting way easier without it.

And by the time you get this episode, you're probably gonna be way deeper into the show. So, I hope this finds you somewhere down the line. But keep going and let us know how you go. Mel, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
That was now that was very comprehensive. I love and agree with everything you said and yeah the I'm so fascinated by the insulin response piece and we've talked about it on the show before but but basically your body has two different phases of releasing insulin with a meal and so Barry this is what Barry was referencing but basically your your your pancreas always has a little bit of insulin like ready and waiting to go and it's called the cephalic phase insulin response and when you get exposed to something that is food related your body and like like Barry said though I guess it I guess can vary by people as to like how much this has an effect or like what actually happens but in theory what we know is the pancreas releases like a little bit of insulin in preparation like it's assuming you're about to eat so that's why just being exposed to food related flavors or sweetness or chewing can actually release that insulin it's not like the whole gamut of insulin but it's this like ready and waiting to go insulin which I find really really interesting and I was just thinking about it a little bit esoterically right now like so when you're chewing gum because I used to be I don't know Barry did you ever go through a like a gum chewing phase

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I just thought I wasn't being unhealthy because it's just gum. You're just chewing gum. How bad can it be, right?

Melanie Avalon
I feel like it's a, cause this is what I'm thinking about. Like why we do it because you're not actually, there are, there are technically calories typically in gum. And even if it says zero, it could be, cause I think like labeling wise, if it's like less than five calories or something, they can make it say zero. I could be wrong on that, but I know like it can actually, the calories could add up if you go through like a whole pack is my point.

And I used to in Australia or did they have the, um, the dessert gums that they have here? What is that? Oh my goodness. So there was this line of gum. Wait, let me find it. I think they still make it. Okay. Remember Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory.

Barry Conrad
Yes, I do remember.

Melanie Avalon
So, oh, I found it. Remember in that when, what's her name? Is it Violet? The girl who chews the gum and it like goes through an entire meal. I wonder if they still make it.

So like extra gum made this. Oh, it's called dessert delights. Oh man, here's a picture of it. So I remember when I first came out and they came out with the apple pie one and it literally tasted like you were eating apple pie. It was wild. It looks like then they ended up coming with a key lime pie. I never tried that one. A mint ice cream, a strawberry shortcake. Oh yeah, it literally tastes like strawberry shortcake. I don't know what they did, but they were, they were, I think there was a cinnamon roll one too. My point is I went through, I went through like a gum face. I would like go through a pack of that stuff a day. And the question is like, why are you engaging in it? And I think it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier with the dopamine and stuff. Like the chewing of the gum, it could be like an enjoyment that you get from like the chewing experience. It could be like an addiction to that flavor hit like over and over and over again.

It's like, why are you doing it? And like Barry said, what can you like replace it with instead? So instead of having the gum, which yes, it's going to break your fast. Yes, can potentially release insulin artificial sweeteners. They can have horrendous effects on the gut microbiome. That's actually one of my biggest concerns about them is the effects that they might be having on that.

So what can you do instead? So maybe have some more coffee. Again, if you want really high antioxidant coffee, get my glow coffee. Or can you have water or like sparkling water or can you, you know, do something like what else can you do instead of feeling this need to just chew the gum and chew the gum and chew the gum. And I do think that one of the primary issues with chewing gum during the fast is because it's literally like, it's not only are you exposed to, you know, flavors and potential sweetness or whatever it may be, but you're actually like chewing. You're like signaling to your body like that you're eating, which is also confusing for the body. If it thinks it's eating and then it doesn't actually get a substantial amount of calories, that just kind of messes with the hunger signals and the body's understanding of caloric balance and metabolism. And I won't go on this tangent, but I interviewed Mark Shatsker. He has quite a few books, but one of them is called The End of Craving. He also wrote The Dorito Effect, which I remember Jen Stevens was really obsessed with that book. But in one of those, I think it's The End of Craving, he talks about how, just how problematic artificial sweeteners are because they signal to the body, like I just said, they signal to the body that you're getting calories that you're not getting.

Melanie Avalon
And then that actually messes with our metabolism. Like they've actually done studies, like these studies were so shocking that I almost don't believe them. But in the studies, they found that when they gave participants essentially artificially sweetened beverages, like when they would make up some of the calories with artificial sweeteners so that what they were drinking was actually or eating, I don't remember if it was eating or drinking, but whatever it was, it was less calories than the other options that did not have the artificial sweeteners. People's less. And it had to do, his theory is that it has to do with like sending a signal of confusion to the body where it doesn't know like what a calorie is or like what, like what it means what. And so the metabolism kind of like freaks out and just kind of like shuts down. So that's a whole other reason to not have artificial sweeteners.

But I feel I feel like I've said a lot. I feel like Barry was saying it more eloquently. But my point is, yes, gum does break the fast. There are a lot of other options that you can do instead. So I highly, highly encourage it. And this also could be just coming from my own passion of like having been in a gum chewing state for a while in the past. And it felt really good to not be chewing the gum anymore after that. Thanks so much for your question. I wonder if they still make these dessert ones. Did you look it up?

Barry Conrad
I actually did and one of them said like sugar-free dessert gum, which is even more of a like It's just such a weird contradiction. It's so crazy to me. Yeah

Melanie Avalon
Oh, there's the cinnamon roll one. Uh, and they did something with the flavor that like made it feel like you were really eating it. It was like.

Barry Conrad
What is it there's? Turkish delight is I'm looking at the extra dessert delights one. Is that the one that you mean? Yeah, it's just so crazy

Melanie Avalon
And you would have to I just saw like a really quick person saying that they were great, but they lose their flavor quickly. That was the thing like I would like have one and you can only chew it for so long and then you would lose that flavor so then I'd have to like pop another.

I would I would really go through like a pack a day.

Barry Conrad
Same, and you know what, I actually did have a lot of gum, because you do lose, that's the thing, you do lose that initial kick of that flavour and you want another one, another one, another one, another one.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, earlier we were mentioning the importance of both fasting and the feasting, so shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
I'm so ready.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I have a backstory on why I chose this restaurant berry. So I've been wanting to go to this restaurant. It's in Atlanta. It's in Decatur. I've been wanting to go for a long time because I've been very alert by the menu. And they have a Michelin recommendation, they have a James Beard Award, all the things. I actually went, I don't know, maybe three weeks, two or three weeks ago. And wow, it was at least three weeks ago, I think. So we have not recorded in a while. Yeah, well. Yeah. And we only went for drinks though. And I will say, we did not have a good experience at the bar. I think the bartender was just not, it was just a not good night for him. So it was one of the, okay, the reason I'm saying this is because this speaks to how much I am obsessed with this menu, because we had not a good experience. And I still am dying to go back to try the actual restaurant.

And like I said, they have so many awards, I'm sure it was just an off night for the bartender. And having been in that industry, I know how it is. But I'm just saying, dear and dove, because I know they probably are trying to get like an actual Michelin star, you might want to work on some of the staff issues. But that said, the menu is incredible. And we were looking at the menu while we were at the bar. So it's called the Dear and the Dove. Oh, and then we did go to their sister restaurant after that for another drink, and they were amazing. So maybe I'll talk about their sister restaurant next time. Okay, so they are a farmer centered neighborhood restaurant serving rustic cuisine by Terry Cobol, I guess. It was really cute. And so did you get the link?

Barry Conrad
This is looking, this looks good. I like the vibe of this, the kind of farm-y, meaty, game-y kind of vibe. That's my vibe.

Melanie Avalon
Wait till you see everything on the menu. It was it was literally like everything that I never see on menus everywhere on this menu.

Barry Conrad
What? I'm looking at it now.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So dinner and drinks. Okay. So again, this is the deer and the dove. I am dying to go and hopefully redeem the experience that we had at the bar.

Barry Conrad
Chicken liver pate, ah, duck fat potatoes, ah.

Melanie Avalon
They have so many things, they have squab, they have octopus, they have scallops, they have like beef tongue, they have like literally half rabbit, sweet breads, all the like crazy things.

Barry Conrad
Coffee-dusted seared venison? Never heard of that ever. It sounds amazing though.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes. So, okay. Where should we start? I guess openers? Do you see any openers that you would want?

Barry Conrad
cheese from our friends has to be done, which is Decimal Place Farm, is it chevre, hobo, cheese, kobendal, sesquashie, kove, kopinger, apricot, mustado, pairings, and grilled sourdough. And we definitely have to do, actually, you know what? I'll take that back.

Go to the family platter, because that's a combination of the D&D cured salumi and cheeses from our friends, pickled vegetables, softball, farm egg pairings, and grilled sourdough. What about you, Mel? Wait a second.

Melanie Avalon
I never, because it's salame, I mean that's what we call it here, but I never realized it was spelled like the way that you said it. Is that how it's spelled?

Barry Conrad
Did you not know that it's like we say, well we say salami.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, salami. Yeah. Oh, okay. Wait. So is this different? Hold on. Salami for saloon.

Barry Conrad
Because it's spelled different, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay.

So salumi is the umbrella term for all Italian cured meats, while salami is a specific type O of cured ground sausage. I didn't know that. All salami is salumi, but not all salumi is salami. How's that for a math puzzle?

Barry Conrad
This is like the shrimp and prawn thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, it is. I would have like a bite of the of the house cured meats, the salumi, trying to see because there's also like so they have small plates. It's kind of confusing to figure out like how you like how big thing I guess is that salad? Oh, soups, maybe plants and parodies, like soups and salads, kind of. I think so.

So do you see anything else? Smaller that you would want?

Barry Conrad
I definitely, what caught my eye straight away was the duck fat potatoes. I love potatoes in general.

So creamer potatoes, nutritional yeast, green onion, and then also some burrata. I do love burrata.

Melanie Avalon
I want the beef tartare for sure, which is Bear Creek Farms, beef ribeye, caper, lemon, olive oil, soft boiled egg, grabishi, and oh goodness, I can't ever say anything. Fakasha? That, yes.

Barry Conrad
And also melt beneath that doesn't that look interesting to you to want to try the.

Melanie Avalon
A coffee-dusted seared venison? Yes. Yes, I'm trying to figure out, but that's a small plate. It's interesting how they organize this.

So that's roasted beets, carrot puree, beet blood, spruce sea salt, and carrot chips. So is that like an appetizer of it?

Barry Conrad
I think so. I reckon it's just like a small little helping. It's not like a meal meal, like a big meal.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, then definitely that.

Barry Conrad
No, I just had flashbacks to, it's not a meal, it's just a small, the Jim Stevens in.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, the one meal a day, the meal in the snack debate. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

Do you see is there like a they don't even have the word entree on here, a larger dish that you want? So I went with my sister-in-law. She actually ordered the D&D grilled burger and she's gluten free. So she got it without the bun. It looked really, it looked really good. So that was so, yeah, she really liked it. Is it big? It was pretty big. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
I am like tempted by the burger, but I think for places like this, I'd probably try something else because that has dark potatoes as well. Maybe I'll avoid the burger and I go for the Hokkaido scallops.

That looks pretty good, pan seared, woodland gardens, bok choy, three-month house cured pancetta, Anson Mills white pea puree, lemon caper bure blanc, trout roe and grilled sourdough. Trout roe sounds great too. Yeah, the scallops for me. Let's go.

Melanie Avalon
I'm surprised you're not getting, because we talked in the past, I don't know if it was on the show or if it was afterwards, we were talking about, do you remember, we were talking about how you, for some reason, have a hesitation about eating non-chicken birds? On here they have fossil farms pheasant and they have squab, which apparently is a type of pigeon.

No. No pigeons or pheasants?

Barry Conrad
I can't do it. I don't know why. It just really freaks me out. I don't know why it does.

Melanie Avalon
That's so funny. It's funny that it freaks you out. Does grilled beef tongue freak you out? They have that on here.

Barry Conrad
I would try that.

Melanie Avalon
So you would try beef tongue, but you won't try pigeon or pheasant?

Barry Conrad
It actually might be some weird thing. I don't know why I think that, but it's almost like my brain can't. Yeah. And unless it's chicken or duck or turkey, it just, I don't know, pigeon and stuff. I don't know.

You know what? I think the reason is when I was a kid, did you have a pet pigeon? I actually had a pet chicken that got killed by a cat, but it's not funny. But I went to this bakery to get a pie and it was meant to be a chicken pie. But I remember biting into it. It's like that didn't taste like chicken. Maybe it was like pigeon or something. And ever since that, that's the story I told myself and I just freaked out about.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Wait, childhood trauma. We like it. We actually found it. We found the root.

Barry Conrad
That is actually the root.

Melanie Avalon
And you don't actually know, though, if if that was the case, you just assume it was just off.

Barry Conrad
I don't know. You know what? I would try it. If it was in front of me, I would try it.

I've tried rabbit. I've tried lots of stuff. It's just, it's not, when I read it and I read the words, it doesn't, it makes me kind of like, makes my stomach churn.

Melanie Avalon
That's so interesting. It's kind of like, I think I told this before, like when my grandmother made us spaghetti once and it was really good and she wouldn't, she said she would tell us after what it was, which note to self, I feel like just don't tell the kid.

It was, I mean, it was something I love now. It was dear, venison, but when you're like a little kid, you're like, Bambi,

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember I was horrified. I can still taste it though, it was so good.

Barry Conrad
The thing is, if you put it in front of me right now, I'd probably just eat it. It's just more reading the words on the page and trying to imagine the animal.

Melanie Avalon
Interesting, though, that you're okay with the beef tongue. So I actually, so the things I want on here, I really want I've actually never had rabbit. So I would get the wood fire half rabbit, which is Blue Ridge Farms, rabbit legs, rabbit loin, Hickory Hill Farms, roasted baby carrots, Castel, Vetrano, olives, poultry, juice, herb, risotto, and Benton's 24 month cured country ham. So I will get that with everything on the side, if possible.

Oh, I like that they have dry aged duck. That's interesting. And then I actually might get the beef tongue. And what's interesting is it actually kind of freaks me out. But I think I would like it.

Barry Conrad
What? The beef tongue?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm, but I think I have the response to it that you have to the peasant and the pigeon

Barry Conrad
Because have you tried tongue before like any kind of, I don't think so. It's, it's pretty common in South Africa.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? It's not common here. Is it just tastes like steak? No. Oh, it doesn't?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's a different consistency. It's definitely not like a steak kind of vibe. It also looks very tongue-esque.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, maybe not. I kind of want to get it just because I'm so curious, like it's something where I would want somebody else to get it and I'll look at it and then I'll maybe taste it.

Barry Conrad
I will say though, rabbit's delicious. It tastes almost like, when I had it in Tenerife, it was almost like a really tender beef stew or something. It was really, really good. Really good.

Melanie Avalon
It's super lean too. Do they have the dessert menu?

Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, Dessert and Digestive, here we go. Oh yeah, this looks good. There's a few things here I would get. What would you get from this menu bar?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I would get a, I mean, I would be on the dinner menu still and get more of, I mean, like there's so many things here. I would probably get one of the small plates that I either hadn't had, or if I liked to get another one, there's just so many different things on here that I, like they also have trout, they have so many things.

So I would get another entree of sorts.

Barry Conrad
I would get two of these desserts. Do you want to guess which two I would get?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. The chocolate fudge cake, which is dark chocolate mousse, cornflake and cocoa. I never know if it's cocoa or cacao.

Cocoa nib, streusel, cinnamon caramel sauce and cornflake ice cream. That's nifty. And then would you get, well, you love creme brulee. Would you get the creme brulee, the creme caramel?

Barry Conrad
I sure would, you got them right.

Melanie Avalon
Yes! Which is French custard, sorghum syrup, and candy nut.

Barry Conrad
It sounds really good. I've never heard of cornflake ice cream. That's interesting. Or cocoa nib streusel. What is that? That actually looks really delicious. Yum. I'm in. I'm sold.

Melanie Avalon
Do you see a drinks that you would like? Yes. And I can actually tell you what I got.

Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, you can actually, you've been there. What did you get?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I loved this list because they have, I got one of their orange wines. I got the, um, Turiga National Freo Winery. Oh, wait, that was a Rosé. Wait, let me see what I got cause I can check.

Barry Conrad
I do like orange wine though, and rosé.

Melanie Avalon
I tried the orange wine. I wonder if they had one. Oh, it is by the glass. Okay.

I didn't see that I got the okay, so I did get that's what I thought I thought I got the Freia Freo, but here that it says that it's a Rosé, but the one they had when I was there was an orange wine So I think they had an orange wine by that same winery. So is it good? Yeah, it was really good I really liked it orange wines tend to be that you know, they're more natural and And I had also I think tried one of the reds, but they have they have a fantastic wine list

Barry Conrad
So maybe it was just a really off night for the bartender because the food and the wine looks really good to me.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I know, it does.

Barry Conrad
I would get the D&D spring gin and tonic only because it's named after the institution so I'll do that, which is a morals of road, gin, gin, apple time, house tonic syrup, spices, soda, and then also I would also have to try as a second drink before moving on to wine the Al Greco, which is tequila, dill, tarragon, Greek, mastilla, liqueur, lustar, dry vermouth, alapino, lime bitters, yum.

Melanie Avalon
so many options. So yeah, I really want to go here though. So.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you got to try it and let me know what the food is actually like.

Melanie Avalon
It might be the menu-wise, it might be the place in all of Atlanta I want to go to the most.

Barry Conrad
And also, okay, if you had to order, if you had to go tonight, what would you order for your, your mains, your, your big meal?

Melanie Avalon
What would I order if I was literally going tonight?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, would you have the tongue or would you have the rabbit?

Melanie Avalon
I definitely want the rabbit, I don't, but yeah, I need, let me look up.

Barry Conrad
what it looks like.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm going to see if I can actually see it like at their restaurant. Okay. Well, when it's not cooked, it looks really scary, but cooked. I do want to try it. I might have to try it.

Barry Conrad
Then you can just send me a photo and say, hey, guess what, guess where I am.

Melanie Avalon
I'll do it. I'll do it. Awesome. Okey-dokey.

Well, friends, we hope that you have the best time with us. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com. Or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. You can join our Facebook group, IF Biohackers. And we interact a lot with you guys there. We also ask questions for the show. So definitely check that out. And then today's show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 477. They will have a full transcript and links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out.

All right. I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
No, thank you so much, listeners, for tuning in once again. We appreciate you so much, every single one of you, and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week. you

May 25

#475 – Coffee For Fat Burning, Performance Enhancing Drugs In Sports, Post Partum Weight Plateaus, Caffeine Benefit, Burning Liver Fat, Activating Autophagy, Pregnancy Recovery, Wine And Fat Burning, Burning Thigh Fat, And More!

Welcome to Episode 475 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: Amazónico

STUDIES: Drinking coffee burns hepatic fat by inducing lipophagy coupled with mitochondrial β-oxidation

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

TANASI:

SUNLIGHTEN

Sunlighten is a leader in infrared sauna technology, delivering targeted wavelengths that support cellular energy, detoxification, relaxation, cardiovascular health, and longevity. With ultra-low EMF, no off-gassing materials, and over 25 years of innovation, it’s a luxurious, science-backed way to support your health from the comfort of your own home! (Melanie is obsessed with the solo unit!) Get up to $1,600 off + FREE shipping at get.sunlighten.com/ifpodcast

TIMELINE NUTRITION

Timeline Nutrition’s MitoPure is powered by Urolithin A, a clinically studied compound that supports mitochondrial health by promoting mitophagy, your body’s natural cellular renewal process. In human studies, participants experienced a 12% increase in muscle strength in four months with no change in exercise, while also supporting energy, endurance, and healthy aging. Get Timeline's clinically proven new formula and Mitopure at a lower price at timeline.com/ifpodcast

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 475 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 475 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. I'm doing so, so good. Mel, I've been reading this, this really, really good book because I've been kind of trying to aim to read a book a month. I kind of fell off a little bit, but I'm back now.

And this book, it's called, I don't know if you know, it's called the Ikiji, the Japanese secret to a long and happy life. Have you heard of this book? No. And it's all about why like certain people, especially in Japan, like live into their nineties and like, like hundreds. Like came to Naka who made it to 119, which is crazy. Then you have like, they talk about lifestyle, like purpose, how they eat, why they live these long lives. And interestingly, it also mentions intermittent fasting. Oh really? Yeah. Which really is like, it surprised me because it's not a diet book or anything like that per se, but they talk about the five to approach specifically talking about how they eat most days, eat normally most days and then fast for two days a week. And they called like the five to intermittent fasting. It was really caught me by surprise. I'm like, what? It was awesome.

Melanie Avalon
And this is in Japan, you said?

Barry Conrad
So it's cool. It's a little blue book, Ikiji, the Japanese secret to a long and happy life. And yeah, it's, it's people living in Japan. And they talk to these centenarians, I guess, about, you know, what's your secret to living, living so long? And they all give accounts and little excerpts. It's really interesting and awesome.

I highly recommend it.

Melanie Avalon
What's really interesting about that is I feel like because I read a lot about like different long lived populations and, you know, like Okinawa and all these places, and I, I feel like I haven't had the experience of associating fasting specifically with Japan. I haven't like seen that a lot.

So that's, are they saying that the Japanese do that? Like that they fast like two days a week.

Barry Conrad
Well, they were talking, not all of the participants in the book do, but some of them do, because they specifically mentioned 5-2, they specifically mentioned it and so for my intermittent fasting, or just caught me by surprise because it's not the type of book that I expected them to remotely bring that up. But yeah, it's very cool.

It's almost like seeing it in the wild, but I definitely recommend.

Melanie Avalon
So time of the name of the book again, E, like it's called EWG or no, sorry. E E what E K what is it called?

Barry Conrad
So it's called I, it's spelled I-K-I-G-A-I, but it's said like I-K-E, I-K-G, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
light like the Lana Del Rey song.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Well, I don't know, but yeah, I guess so. Yeah, it must be that.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I was like in my head when you were saying it isn't called like ikigai or something

Barry Conrad
You can go, exactly. You can go.

Melanie Avalon
I was thinking, I was seeing like letters, like an acronym. Okay, yes, Lana Del Rey does have a song about this.

Awesome, we will put a link to this in these show notes. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 475. So thank you.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, also one more thing I have to, can you just get your phone out for a second? Okay, your text message, I'm sending you something, it's coming in hot.

This is a real-time moment. Look what I just unpackaged.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I sent Barry my coffee.

Barry Conrad
listeners are just doing in between shows. And I saw a pink package there, like the only person that could be from is Melanie Avalon. And lo and behold, yes, it's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
You literally just opened it. Oh my goodness, that is perfect timing.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. So glow coffee. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I forgot, do you have a grinder? I forgot, we talked about this.

Barry Conrad
I don't. I know I've got to figure that out, but I'm going to figure it out because I have to.

Melanie Avalon
You have a podcast banter with VC about food. You must have a grinder.

Barry Conrad
I have to have a grinder. I need to get it.

Melanie Avalon
And you can use it for other things too. So, you know, we talked about this I think before.

I grind my ginger every night and I grind my coffee. You could grind horseradish. You could grind lots of things, seeds. You can make mustard.

Barry Conrad
I'm looking at the package that says, feel your day, illuminate your way, clean and mold free, sustainably sourced, light, medium roast, whole bean co... Actually, light, medium roast is my favorite. Oh really? Yeah, actually I don't want it to be too strong. Like a light to medium or medium is good for me.

I don't... Yeah. Two lights, not the situation. Light to light medium is great.

Melanie Avalon
Can you smell it through the, because there's the, on the front, there's like the holes. Can you smell it? Yep. Yeah.

So I know listeners have heard all about it, but the one sentence description is we found the beans, we found beans that are very high in CGA, which is the primary antioxidant in coffee or at least like one of the ones most studied. And then we roast the beans to preserve the antioxidants because the dark or the roast you actually lose antioxidants. So we found that sweet spot where it's not like uber light. Like it's a very approachable roast. Like I think most people will like it while still preserving maximum antioxidants. And then we've tested for almost 100 different toxins. It comes from an organic all female led initiative in Columbia, single origin coffee. It's a regenerative farm, sustainable, they support fair female wages and it tastes delicious. So Glow Coffee, go get it now, go to glowcoffeeco.com. You can use IF Podcast to get a discount. I cannot wait to hear what you think about it, Barry.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to try it because I know that we have heard about glow coffee for a while and I kept on saying I can't wait to try it and now it's finally here. So I'm stoked, can't wait.

Thank you so much for sending it to me.

Melanie Avalon
Of course, and I'm stoked because you are a, like you're a coffee, like you know more about coffee than meat. Like, you know, like you appreciate coffee and like the taste and the flavor profile. So you have a educated palate.

Barry Conrad
I wouldn't call myself a coffee snob, but I'm kind of a coffee snob, meaning like if it's not good coffee, it's a wrap. And I have no doubt this is going to be really good.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I cannot wait to hear what you think. Please let me know.

Barry Conrad
I will. How are you?

Melanie Avalon
I'm good. I'm dying to know. I mentioned this to you briefly. But the timing of this episode is wild to talk about this because if I go, then when this airs, I will be on my way back from this event.

I told you about it already, but I got invited to the enhanced games, which I had heard about them because I listened to the founders on a Joe Rogan interview. They actually were on Time magazine's list, top 100 health figures of 2025. So they're launching this thing called the enhanced games. They're trying to make it a alternative to the Olympics, except where all substances are allowed. So basically, yeah, you can do all the things. You can do the hormones, the peptides, the supplements, like everything goes. And it was interesting listening because when you first hear it, so basically it's like where they're allowing doping and being all doped up. But hearing the interview about it and looking into it more, they make the argument that it's actually... They say that apparently, I don't know, they say 40% of people in elite sports are doing this anyways. So it's like full transparency. There's safety because now people aren't hiding things. Everything is all on the up and up because everything's out there. And then they say that it's really the way to see the true potential of the ultimate human performance. What can a human body do if it's given all the inputs that can make it become its ideal form? So yeah, it's going to be late. And it's like a lot of like, oh, they have math. They have a lot of Olympians competing. I think they have 25 million that they're giving away in prizes. And well, they invited me to come, which is really kind. And then the killer is my favorite band in the whole world are going to be the band playing at the end. So I'm really excited. But I'm curious your thoughts, Barry, on this concept because it's very controversial.

Barry Conrad
When you first mentioned to me what came to mind was like a almost like a reality show So I kind of like sort of guessed like just like these superheroes doing their thing and competing I think it's interesting for sure to see what human beings could be capable of doing if they Took all the things, you know had all those inputs and all the drugs and whatnot I Don't personally know if I agree with that necessarily because it's just whoever wins it still wouldn't be it wouldn't be natural So it's like yeah You did it but with a lot of a lot of assistance kind of thing So it just kind of goes like if you didn't have those things would you still win or is that not the point is the point? Just to see who can be the most enhanced just like the name says the most enhanced performer and the best man or woman wins Yeah, what do you what did you think when you first heard it?

I mean, I'm I'm kind of taken aback by it because I've never heard of a concept like this. It's kind of it's new I've never thought this would happen

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's really interesting to think about. And part of me thinks that it, because apparently, like I said, apparently, in the current competitions that happen, a lot of this is being done. Anyways, it's being done, like on the sneakily on the black market and not per the rules. So I feel like I feel like when it comes to competitions, it should be like one or the other, like either completely enforced, like all natural competing, like 100% or this version and they are using all it's all medically supervised, it has to all be FDA approved substances. That's why they're saying it's actually safer because everything is going to be like supervised because if you're sneaking in and doing that in other competitions, you might not be supervised all the time because because then you're not going to get away with it. You know, they make the argument that this is safer.

Two thoughts about it. And I'm very like I'm wrapping my head around right now, because I was surprised that they reached out to me, but then I was like, Oh, it kind of is similar to biohacking in a way because like, with biohacking, you're taking substances and supplements and you know, hormone optimization and stuff for longevity. And this is kind of the same thing, but for like physical athletic performances. And then as far as like, here's my answer to and I'm this is not like a definitive answer. I'm just I'm thinking about this in real time. But like what you're saying about, would you have been able to do that? Obviously, they would not be able to reach these things without the substances like because what they're trying to do is they're trying to like break world records like across the board. I just know for me, you could like jack me up as much as you want with all the things I would never be able to like, you know, do the stuff. So I don't think it discredits a even if people are taking performance enhancing drugs and supplements. They still have to break the record. It's just that they're giving their body the ideal cocktail it needs to function at its highest potential.

I think I think a person could like make that argument. I'm very intrigued. I'm very interested.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Well, what you said about biohacking and the sort of similarity, I never thought of it that way. I can see what you mean. There is a similarity in that way.

I also didn't know that it was going to be medically supervised. So that is different. Also, like you said that people are already taking a lot of these substances. I wonder then it begs to the question like, what is natural? What is the limit of what is considered natural, you know, in terms of particularly sports performance? Like where's the line? What product? What supplement? What is the end of natural?

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Because that's what I was thinking about it. I was actually really thinking about it. I was like, how is it different somebody taking XYZ to enhance their lifespan and their longevity, but if you take it to do some epic physical performance feat, how is that different? Maybe one is sustainable and health-promoting and this is not, you know? I'm assuming you can't live like that forever.

It's for the purpose of the competition. It's really interesting. And so they sent me the deck. It's going to be 40 plus elite athletes from 24 countries, a lot of Olympians. Really? Yeah. A lot of world champions. I'm just looking through all the people who are in it right now. Gold medalists, silver medalists. It's going to be swimming, track, weightlifting, deadlift, and then the killer's concert at the end.

Barry Conrad
So you're gonna go, right? You're definitely going. You have to go.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And what's crazy is so it's the same. So it's like on a Sunday, it's when this airs, it will have been yesterday. And it's the same week as the biohacking conference. So like I Dave's conference. So I was going to that now I'm not sure because I don't, I'm not Barry Conrad. I don't have good travel skills. So I don't know if I can like go to Vegas and then like fly straight to the biohacking conference right after that and then like do that back to back. That might be too much for me.

So I might, I might just go to this only because, well, I'm very intrigued and it's complete invite only. So like it's going to be streamed worldwide to like millions of people, but the actual event is come only invite only. And it's completely paid like everything like hotel, flight. It's so good. Like food credit. That's so great. But I might not know anybody. So I might just be there like walking around Vegas, like, you know, doing my thing.

Barry Conrad
It sounds like an adventure, and also you've been to the biohacking conference many a time, so right? So I feel like this is a new adventure.

Why not? And it's like you said, everything's already covered. So sounds like a shoe in.

Melanie Avalon
I love Taylor Swift, my favorite band is The Killers, and I actually haven't seen them live. See? I would pay to go to that. That's not the main reason I'm going, but, so yeah.

So we shall see. I did accept the invitation, so unless they like uninvite me, then I was talking with Chachi Buti, I was like, are they gonna uninvite me? It was like, it like talks me off the ledge about these things.

Barry Conrad
Listen as Mel says this a lot chat. I was asking I was asking chat and chats it was like, oh my gosh

Melanie Avalon
I know I was telling my mom about how I want to go and like how I don't know anybody going and so she texted me today She was like maybe chat Chat or Joe Rogan can go with you. I was like, thanks mom.

That's two great options two great options So, yeah, I'll let you know how it is if I go

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to hear all about it. I'm actually really intrigued to see what you think. Yeah, so please go so you can tell us all about it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I am too. And like, I also really like like the timing of it like it does. It's just because it's like Vegas, like, like the welcome thing starts at 830pm and goes until 11. I love that.

And then the games don't even start until 230 and three. I've actually never been to. Oh, wait, that's not true. I've been to the Olympics, but I was young. But besides that I haven't.

Barry Conrad
You went to the Olympics?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they came to Atlanta when I was young. So I remember going to the horse. Oh, gosh, it must have been hot because if my memory and I was like a wee little child, let me see what year that was.

Hold on. So this was 1996. So if my memory is being outside looking at horses and being very, very hot as a young kid, it must have been really, really hot. And then I remember we went to the swimming, I think, or no, we went to the gymnastics, I think.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, those gymnast said beasts as well. They can, that takes so much strength to do that, what they do. It's crazy.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I know. All right, shall we jump in? No pun intended to some studies? Fasting stuff? This study is actually, I did not plan this because I did not know Barry was gonna open my coffee. in real time. Not surprisingly, given that I have a coffee line now, I'm very intrigued by the metabolic health benefits of coffee. So I wanted to research how coffee actually affects fat burning. So because especially because like my glow coffee line is the perfect coffee for your fast because it's super clean because it is a light to medium roast doesn't need any like, you know, creams and sweeteners, like it's just delicious as is high antioxidant so that you're feeling your best.

I was curious though how it would affect fat burning. So I found this really fun study. So it is called drinking coffee burns hepatic fat, which means liver fat by inducing lipophagy, coupled with mitochondrial B oxidation beta oxidation. And it was published in hepatology in April of 2014. What was really interesting about this study is they were looking at the effects of coffee and in particular caffeine on liver fat, which people we often think about, like with fat, like our we think about about our like subcutaneous fats, like the fat that we actually see on our body. Liver fat is such a problematic form of fat. So many people have non alcoholic fatty liver disease now, which is fat build up in the liver, and it's highly correlated to well, it is a health disease in and of itself. And then on top of that, it's correlated to so many health problems. Because when your liver is the one that's like in charge of like all the things like last week, we were talking about detoxing estrogen. And you know, that's happening in the liver and how we detox chemicals in our our environment and different compounds and and how we burn fat and process energy, the liver is the one like really involved in that. So how does caffeine and coffee support the liver? And the study looked at all of that and it and it made the case that maybe one of the reasons that coffee has so many health benefits is because of how it affects liver fat. And what it does in particular that is so fascinating is it does two things. And it kind of sounds very similar to what fasting does, which is another reason that coffee pairs well with fasting. So the first thing and they're both in the title, but I'm going to break them down for you. So we talked a lot on this show about autophagy, which is this idea of where the body goes down and breaks problematic proteins in your body and reuses them. So it happens a lot during fasting, it also happens from things like exercise, and I've mentioned coffee supporting it. But it's a it's like a cellular cleanup of your body. And we used to think that autophagy was just like this bulk like process that happened and got rid of intracellular proteins, excess or damaged cells.

Melanie Avalon
However, they're starting to realize that there can be certain types of autophagy that selectively target different things. So we've actually talked about my topology on the show before as well, because timeline makes you're living a supplement that I adore everybody go get it now I take it every night of my life, I swear by it, go get it. That supports breaking down problematic, like old dysfunctional mitochondria, which are the the powerhouses of your cells. And that's actually a reason that like taking timeline, for example, has been shown to increase, increase muscle strength without actually doing any exercise, which is crazy. But it's just because it's breaking down all of the old mitochondria in the muscle and recycling it. If people want to check that out, they can get 20% off at timeline.com slash if podcast. So again, timeline.com slash if podcast for 20% off timeline, that will help support my topology.

Okay, back to lipophagy, I guess is how you would say it. So this is autophagy that selectively targets fat intracellular lipid droplets. And what that means is intracellular. So in between cells in the liver, lipid, which means fat droplets. So droplets of fat, literally fat in the liver, lipophagy, or lipophagy, however you say it, is breaking down that liver fat. And so then it becomes available to use. Now, this is amazing. And again, this kind of sounds like something that we get from fasting, like breaking down fat to make it usable to use. However, you don't just want a lot of fatty acids like running around the bloodstream all the time. That actually can be inflammatory in and of itself. It's the reason that we actually store fat in fat cells is to get it out of the bloodstream. That's why like when you're fasting, you can't just fast, you also have to like burn off that fat that you release, which you do naturally because when you're fasting, you're moving around, you're living your life. So you are naturally like burning off that fat, just by the necessity of life of what you're doing while fasting. So if you're taking a substance like coffee, and then it's breaking down, it's creating this lipophagy in the liver, and freeing up those lipid droplets, those fat droplets in the liver for use, now what? You need part two, which is mitochondrial beta oxidation. So that is the mitochondria, which I mentioned before, did not plan that, but that works out well. The mitochondria actually oxidizing or burning that fat. So coffee does both. So not only does it break down liver fat, it then also supports the mitochondria to burn the fat. So basically, that's what the study found that coffee has a very, very beneficial effect on the liver, a good effect on fat burning, it can help address fatty deposit, fatty liver buildup, and not only releasing fat, but also burning fat. So, yay, so everybody go get Glow Coffee now at Glow, oh, I don't know if I even gave the website, glowcoffeeco.com and the code I have podcast. Yeah, so Barry, what are your thoughts on this, on coffee supporting lipophagy and beta oxidation in the mitochondria?

Barry Conrad
Well, I actually had no idea that even took place while I was drinking my long black, I had no idea, like the, that increases the release of fatty acids. Like it's, so it's, there's actually a real physiological response then. I didn't, I thought, let me just have this and I'm just enjoying the taste.

I did not know it even caused that is, you know, because we always, we always talk about autophagy as well. Like you were saying that it's intermittent fasting related. So this is a different type of autophagy. With the lipoophagy, how do you even say it?

Melanie Avalon
I'm guessing it's lipophagy or lipophagy. Yes, this is basically autophagy specifically occurring in the liver for fatty deposits in the liver.

Barry Conrad
When we do say that, are we literally talking about the body breaking down fat within the liver cells?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so the lipophagy is where the liver cells, intracellular, so like the droplets of fat in between the liver cells, the lipophagy part is breaking down. So that fat is in a state where it has to be broken down before it can actually be burned. So it's like broken down, freed up into free fatty acids. Those can be burned for energy.

So the part one of what coffee does is it like unlocks the fat. So now you can actually burn it. But then it also supports the mitochondria to actually burn it as well. So it supports both processes that are needed to burn liver fat, which like I said is so problematic and highly prevalent today. And like you were saying just really quickly, like I used to think before I looked into this more, I was like, oh, well, you know, I knew caffeine and coffee like helped you kind of release fat to burn, but I thought it was more like, oh, it gives you lots of energy. So you're like just burning more fat. But this is showing, no, it like mechanistically like gives a signal that releases fat and then helps you burn the fat.

Barry Conrad
Wow. I mean, exactly what you said is what I thought too, that it just increased because you're increasing your energy, you're expending more energy, aka burning more fat, but that's clearly not the case.

So with lipophagy, is that something as well that fasting specifically drives? I reckon that that's activated regardless of whether people fast or not.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. I haven't done. That's a good question. I'd have to look into it.

Barry Conrad
Cause also I'm wondering as well now, I wonder how much coffee you'd need to consume if there's like a certain point where it activates that lipophagy. Do you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, let me see if they answer that.

Barry Conrad
So that'd be good to know like if I, if I'm having my two cups, my one cup, like I'm lipo-viging right now.

Melanie Avalon
Let's see. So this says that... So at the beginning, they say that the average American... More than 60% of American adults drink coffee each day. They drink an average of 3.1 cups per day.

I do note... So at the end, what they say, the fact that caffeine can not only induce lipophagy but also increase lipid mitochondrial beta-oxidation suggests that drinking a couple cups of coffee per day may help to burn the fat out of your liver. That's their conclusion.

I think they're basically saying the average amount that people are drinking basically does this. That's awesome.

Barry Conrad
And I also wonder then if the potency is determined by how strong the coffee is, what people are taking with the coffee, or if it's just black coffee on its own as well. You know what I mean?

I wonder if there's a nuance there or if it's just any coffee period, a couple cups. You know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, I would always, I mean, I don't know this specific answer, I will say what I can say. And definitely check out listeners, my conversation that I have with Martin, who is the roaster of our glow coffee, because he's like the guy he knew, I asked him so many questions, he knew everything about coffee. That was episode 463 of the show. So definitely check that out.

I will say talking to him, I learned, I mean, I already knew this, but like, the role of quality of coffee is just so important as far as making sure that you're getting, you know, not putting in anything problematic, as far as like, negative compounds, toxins, like there's so many things. And then making sure that you get the highest, I would, I would assume I can't say for sure, but so much of like, coffee's health benefits come from the antioxidants. So I would assume that those would be at the very least like synergistic with these processes, even though a lot of this is talking about caffeine specifically, rather than polyphenols per se, but I would imagine there would be synergistic. And also comparing it more to fasting, for example. So the study also talks about how like caffeine and coffee decreases mTOR activity and helps support AMPK. And that's something we talked about a lot on this show, because it fasting does that as well. So mTOR is like the growth pathway in our body, AMPK is activated while fasting. And it helps support like cellular renewal, and like cleanup in the body and longevity. And so coffee is doing that as well. Coffee really is like the perfect fasting drink, honestly.

Barry Conrad
It really is. And what I love about it as well, Mel, is it sort of shifts the conversation from fat burning to what's actually happening.

And it's fascinating because it takes what you said about the concept of autophagy being this bulk cleaner. Take it from being this one big umbrella concept to something way more specific and targeted because I had no idea this was happening. So that's super fascinating.

Melanie Avalon
It's so true and actually kind of just not to go on too much of a tangent, but what I'm thinking about because we're talking about like the mechanisms of fat burning. This is a reason that, you know, they'll say, they say this is a reason I've actually wanted to create like a topical fat burning cream because they say, Oh, you can't spot burn fat. So you can't spot burn fat by like just working out because burning calories, your body's going to burn wherever the fatty acids are coming from. And they tend to come from more easily released depots, like depots throughout your body, like different spots throughout your body. So certain, and we have a question that kind of relates to this that I might get to, but like certain parts of the body, and it has to do with the receptors on the cells, there are things called alpha receptors and beta receptors, and some make it more likely for fat to be released, some make it more likely for fat to be not released or stored. So when you're like working out, you're going to burn free fatty acids in your bloodstream released from wherever they were released from. So that's why like, you can't necessarily target where you are losing fat.

That said, if you are, if you literally put a compound on a fat store that helps open up those receptors and release that fat, then you could in a way like spot burn fat. But you have to understand the mechanisms of fat burning to understand that I just thought about that, because you're talking about like the mechanisms of like what's actually happening. So like here, for example, coffee is like spot burning liver fat in a way, if that makes sense. It's also helping fat, you know, burning everywhere else, but it's definitely doing it in the liver.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I know that that's definitely a conversation a lot in the fitness community, where it's like you can't spot burn fat, like, you know, from your hips or from your tummy or from your doing more crunches is not going to make your belly lose more fat, things like that, you know, so your body naturally distributes fat where the way you genetically also like how you designed your makeup, your genetics, all those things. But it is interesting thing to think about what you're saying about the applying a topical that is interesting.

I wonder. And also, like, Mel, remind me, does does it does the study say anything about the like the variability, like if some people, depending on age or fitness level, whatever, whatnot respond easier or better than others with the lipophagy? Like, does it get activated faster, per se?

Melanie Avalon
No, so this study by itself did not, it's really mechanistic. It's mostly just talking about everything I mentioned. They don't, they don't have a lot of like data on like the people doing this.

Barry Conrad
That's so interesting. I'd love to see more studies on this topic.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I wanna read, no, I wanna read like all the coffee studies.

Barry Conrad
I'd also love to read a study on wine's effects as well. Like a really comprehensive, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we should definitely look into that because I think that's a really like nuanced, complicated picture. Like for example, I know that like there's a compound, for example, called PCetanil found in red wine, and they've done in vitro studies on it, but it actually, it like inhibits the formation of new fat cells.

So we know there are polyphenols, so speaking I was talking about like the antioxidants in coffee, we know there are polyphenols in wine that have beneficial effects on fat cells. But then there's the broader picture of how does alcohol affect fat burning? How does it affect hormones? How does it affect the gut microbiome for better or worse? Because there are definitely studies showing that like red wine in particular can have beneficial effects on the gut microbiome. So it's a really like complex picture, and I really think it comes down to quality too. And I will keep talking about this till the day I die just because I think it really, really bothers me that there's not like, especially in like the clinical literature, they don't really like break it down by what type of wine, for example, that you're drinking. As far as like alcohol content, sugar content, additives, toxins, there's a big difference between like a low alcohol dry, you know, organic French Pinot Noir, and like a conventional high sugar, you know, Chardonnay from California, full of pesticides and

Barry Conrad
And a lot of people will make blanket statements saying, well, alcohol is poison, period. Which is very, can be quite polarizing and confusing because it's not true as a blanket statement.

Anyway, tangent. But this is such an amazing study that you brought on coffee and lipophagy, awesome. I'm so fascinated by this.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. So yeah, so listeners go to glowcoffeecode.com, use code IF podcast to get a discount. Okay. Shall we jump into some listener questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Now it's time for a list of questions. So Nike Mar I was wondering if you ever came across or have information on the below. I have a 10 weeks old little girl and I was doing AF before being pregnant and started again, right after I gave birth brackets. I am not breastfeeding. I lost weight at the beginning, but now my weight is stuck at 73 kgs, which is 13 kgs more than pre-baby body. I do an 18 six fast, but most days it's a 20 hours fast because I get busy with baby. I'm not sure what's going on.

Any reads or advice on this would be great. Love, love, love the show. And you ladies must remember before I go here, have a fantastic day. A listener from Australia, Nike.

Melanie Avalon
I love the question and also I was going through and seeing if we had any unanswered Australian questions. So is that an Australian name?

Barry Conrad
I've never heard a Nike, but it could be Indigenous Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Well, first of all, I'm gonna call you Naiki. I hope that's right. Congratulations on your baby. That is so, so wonderful.

I am in awe of women giving birth. I do not think I ever will. And I'm just like, the body goes through so much to do that and just sending you all the love and good vibes to you and your precious little girl. Okay, so some things to keep in mind is your body just went through a lot having a baby, like a lot. It affects your hormones, your nutrients, the fat stores, all the things. And I would not, I know it's easier said than done because people love to, they have this idea in their head of the body that they want to be living in on whatever timeline. And at the same time, your body is recovering and coming back from a massive experience that it had. And like the postpartum time, especially like the first three to six months and even up to a year, there's a lot of hormonal changes, metabolic shifts happening, hormones are normalizing, tissue repairs happening, you're filling back up your nutrients. And in fact, some clinicians even call the first 12 weeks after birth the quote fourth trimester. So it's important to keep in mind that that is all happening.

And all the changes in hormones that are happening with estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, which even if you're not breastfeeding, it can be elevated cortisol, thyroid hormones, that's all gonna affect your weight. It's gonna affect your fluid retention. It's gonna very likely slow down fat loss. It's gonna affect your appetite. It can create temporary insulin resistance. It's very common to be plateaued, like seemingly plateaued or actually plateaued in this phase. And then on top of that, when you have a new baby, again, another reason I don't think I have it in me, but like the stress and the sleep deprivation, you're probably experiencing, we know that sleep deprivation affects hunger levels, not in a way to our benefit. So you're gonna have higher levels of the hunger hormone called ghrelin, lower levels of the satiety hormone called leptin. So you're probably gonna be hungrier and you're gonna have reduced insulin sensitivity. So that's something to keep in mind.

And then the cortisol and the stress can also lead to increased fat storage and slow your fat loss and increase your water retention. And cortisol is a really interesting hormone because in the short term, it actually helps you burn fat, helps you lose weight, but when it's chronically elevated, that's when it leads to and encourages weight gain. So if that is at all happening, that's probably playing a factor. The fasting that you're doing, like 20 hours, that's a long fast. It might be too much for your body right now. Maybe, it might be more beneficial to maybe like... Because you were saying you were doing, she called it AF. So I'm wondering if that was, I'm assuming she means like alternate fasting. I wonder if, I'm wondering if that was ADF alternate day fasting.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and she's doing it now. So in started again, most days it's 20 hours. Yeah. I'm not sure exactly what she's doing. Like is she fasting every day for 20 hours, especially if she's calling it alternate day fasting. This might be something where you try a different window approach. I know she said the 20 hours kind of happens naturally because of, she's like really busy, which I totally understand. You might find though, that some gentle or fasting might be beneficial. You know, maybe experiment with something more like, you know, a 14 hour fast, a 16 hour fast. And again, I, if you're doing like alternate days, maybe switching around the days that you're doing, when you are eating, really prioritizing the nutrients.

So we talk about it all the time, but focusing on protein and making sure that you're getting your, you know, omega three fats, especially because omega three fats in particular are supportive of the baby. So pregnancy can really deplete our omega three stores. So making sure you're getting enough of that, making sure you're getting your B vitamins, your iron, your choline, all the things. So I would, I would focus more on like what you're eating, the protein intake, being gentle, being kind with yourself, knowing that this is a transition period. This is a liminal space. I know like when we're in a moment and I experienced this recently, it wasn't the same thing, but I was sick recently and I was, Barry knows all about this, but I got, I got a virus and then I got a secondary bacterial infection. So it was just not going away. And I just remember thinking like, am I going to be sick for the rest of my life? Like, am I, because when you're in that moment, it's really hard to see a, how fast time goes and how, how quickly things can change in a beneficial way. And it's, you can just be hard to see like the broader picture and timeline. So I would be, I would be gentle with yourself, focus on your sleep, focus on your stress and know that 10 weeks postpartum is still very, I mean, this was a while ago, but for other women and ladies in this, in this place, 10 weeks postpartum is still very early on. You're still recovering.

So as much as you can not stress about it, I would not stress about it. And then also just as like one fun fact. And I remember I shared this in my, in my book and what went wine. I was always just fascinated by this. So pregnancy, no, I'm not saying to use pregnancy as a way to do this. I don't think you should consciously like, I mean, I don't want to make moral judgments, but I would not while growing a baby try to lose weight or anything like that, just a little fun fact is that like thigh weight in particular on women, which we often think of as very stubborn fat is actually correlated to or is preserved in part for when you're having a baby. So women actually, when they're pregnant, sometimes lose like the stubborn thigh fat that they never lost before. I just think that's, I think that's like a very interesting little fun fact. So Barry, what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
Well, Nike, first of all, again, congrats on your little girl. That's so incredible. Amazing news.

And Mel, I'm so glad you covered all the physiology in so much detail so well. So many of the things you already said, Nike, even if you're not breastfeeding, your hormones are still recalibrating after pregnancy. Like Mel said, 10 weeks is pretty early. And the biggest stress I think right now could actually be sleep and also that 20-hour fast, if you're doing that on the daily, that might be a bit, like Mel said, it might be a bit too much for your system right now while things are still settling and getting back to normal. You know, sometimes shortening the fast slightly or focusing on just getting that food and not trying to necessarily lose right now. Even now, you know, like just focus on where you're at at the moment. And my biggest encouragement is just patience. Your body is still healing and recalibrating. So keep your fasting on the gentler side. Nourish yourself really well with lots of protein. Let things settle. Things will bounce back. It's just a case of when, not if. And I love your analogy, Mel, about your illness as well. Like, because when you are in it, you think it's never gonna end, and it always does. So yeah, there's nothing more I can really add. I mean, you said everything, but yeah, go easy on yourself, Nike. You're still early in the game. Please keep us posted. Let us know how you're going and sending you all the best to you and your little girl.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome, awesome. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
We should do it. We should do it. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. All right. So this portion of the show, the purpose of it is that the benefits of fasting are not just the fasting. It's also what you eat, which we talked about in the show as well.

It's so important and we love celebrating food and all the things and we like to talk about how we would break our fast in a hypothetical situation and feature a restaurant. So Barry has this week's restaurant. Barry, what restaurant do you have for us?

Barry Conrad
This week's restaurant, Melanie, is Amazonica in London, and I've just sent you the link. Now, this place is a full-on rainforest-inspired dining room, which I thought you'd like.

Plants, textures, lighting, immersive from the second you walk in, fully a la carte with Latin American dishes and bold flavors, a wine list that's international, lots of interesting pairings. It's a massive brand with locations in Madrid, Dubai, beyond, and the vibe is meant to be lush. Transport of energetic feels like you've left London completely. Do you see these photos?

Melanie Avalon
I'm looking, wait, so it's kind of like the Rainforest Cafe, but like the fine dining version of it? Yeah. In a way?

You've been to a Rainforest Cafe, right? No. Wait a minute. Do they have that in Australia? You know what it is, right? I don't think, no. Oh my goodness, is this only in an American institution?

Barry Conrad
I don't think there's a rainforest cafe there.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait, Taifun Rainforest Cafe really quickly. It's like being in the rainforest, but there's like animatronic animals and such. They do like rain every now and then, like there'll be like a storm and then like the animals will go crazy.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, this is definitely not an Australian thing. No way.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder how many locations there are. Hold on, Rainforest Cafe. Let me look on Wikipedia really quickly.

Barry Conrad
Six restaurants all in the United States, is that it?

Melanie Avalon
Only six? Wait, 22. 22. Yeah, so this is kind of like the, I wonder if those are real plants.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, I mean it looks awesome and I thought I had a couple choices and I thought let me go for the visual one

Melanie Avalon
I want to go here and you said there's multiple locations.

Barry Conrad
There's multiple locations. There's location. There's one here. Yeah, there's one.

Oh, there's not, I don't know if there's one there, but there's one in, no, there's Madrid, Dubai, and beyond. Let me, let me actually.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, London Dubai, Monte Carlo Madrid, Miami. Wait, should we look at the Miami one since it's closer to us? Or do you want to do the London one? I say we do Miami because we might actually go to that one.

Okay. Yeah, actually, it might be the exact same menu.

Barry Conrad
So we have quite a few things here. We have a salad and vegetables section. Is anything there catching your eye? Your eye is the Ojas e Verduras Frescas.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, is this whole first page is kind of like, okay, well, I'll just go one section at a time. Salad and vegetables.

Oh, look, they have oyster mushrooms. Have you had oyster mushrooms? I actually have not. I went through a mushroom phase and I tried all the mushrooms. And oyster mushrooms, I think they taste like oyster-y.

Barry Conrad
Actually, hold on. You know what? I'm looking at it now. I have had them. I have had them before. They're good. What do you mean? What do you mean, oysteries?

Melanie Avalon
I'm pretty sure that's why they're called that. Wait, I could be wrong.

Generally do oh, no Oh, it's their shape not their flavor. I could have sworn it was because I could have sworn I read it was About their flavor, but I guess not Okay. Well, oh, okay. I would get the um, well, what what is Tombo a Chiyoti

Barry Conrad
So the tango, that is a marinated chicken breast.

Melanie Avalon
I want that. It is marinated chicken breast, lettuce, chickpeas, and chubby dressing.

Barry Conrad
That sounds good. That sounds really good.

Melanie Avalon
This is misleading though because they say salad and vegetables, but it's a chicken dish.

Barry Conrad
There's chicken in here. I like that though. I'm not mad at that at all because I love Virgin.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would get that. How about you?

Barry Conrad
You know what, I'm going to go with the Setta de Cardo, which is the Smoked King Oyster Mushrooms, Black Garlic, Mandarin Ju, and the Tambo Achiote as well, because that just looks really good.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and then do you want anything from the raw and marinated section?

Barry Conrad
Absolutely. I'm going to go for the tuna lacquito, which is seared, a kami tuna, love tuna, manao crunch, pineapple, tamarillo, ponzu, as well as second option, langosta, which is a Scottish lobster, golden kiwi, leche, tigra, and tomato.

Have to, have to, have to. What about you, net.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so speaking of phases, guess what phase I recently went through? Do you do this? Do you go through phases with different foods? And then you're like, try all the varieties of it.

What was it? It's something you just said. Lobster? No. Kiwi? Yeah.

Barry Conrad
kiwifruit, you like kiwifruit?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love Kiwi. And at my Whole Foods, which have you been yet in person to your Whole Foods?

Barry Conrad
I actually have been. I actually have in person. Yes, I have.

Melanie Avalon
at my Whole Foods, they had three different types of kiwis. And I was like, what? They had green, golden, and red.

Barry Conrad
My favorite's green. I'm biased because it's the most popular one in New Zealand. It's a staple. I love kiwi food so much. What's your favorite?

Melanie Avalon
I actually like having all of them. The red was really interesting because it tasted really different from the other ones, but I like the golden one kind of tastes like cake to me. So I like that.

And then the green, I like all of them. The green one is like more sour and pungent. I just love kiwis. They're great. I'm surprised you didn't get the tataki de llamo wagyu sirloin.

Barry Conrad
For the the raw yeah, I got the um, I got the I got the tuna didn't oh, yeah, I didn't get the sirloin Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is Wagyu as well. Dang. Okay.

Yeah, you know what? Let me get get that to you. Yeah, all three It's Wagyu, so it's tataki delamu Wagyu sirloin Nikai cashew sauce dry-edge confit garlic. That sounds so good

Melanie Avalon
sounds really good. Do you want to split that one and then I will get, I also want the salmon, which is Scottish salmon, pear, kimchi, and green shisu, but everything on the side please if possible.

Barry Conrad
the side. Well I can have it if you don't want it.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh, and then caviar, they have, they've got the expensive one, beluga. Have you tried that before? Beluga, caviar or caviar in general? Beluga. No. Have you?

Barry Conrad
No, I have not, but I do love caviar. I really do.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, for reference, 50 grams, how big is that? That's not a lot.

Barry Conrad
You told me this before. I've forgotten what's the reason.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'm not confusing it with something else. We did an episode on the Mindblown podcast about most expensive foods. I think it's the one where like, at least in the US, the guy who does it, like you can't import it, but this is not in the US, so I wonder how that affects it. But like you couldn't import it anymore and he kind of like locked it down. So like that was the only place you could get it from.

I think it was the beluga caviar, but it might've been something else. But yes, so are you gonna have some caviar? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Can I have some caviar? I'm going to have the beluga. Actually an assortment, you know, the beluga, I'm assuming this is just all going to be like, we just have this mesotab beluga.

Melanie Avalon
By the way, listeners, we, this is just our dream, our dream meal.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Abba Eri and Oceetra as well, like, and it serves with blinis. Okay, so you're getting all the caviar that they have. Getting all the caviar and so does blinis, which a lot. Do you like blinis?

I love blinis. Quacamole and summer cream.

Melanie Avalon
I do in spirit and theory, but not like actually my body. Do you know, do you wanna, I'm doing the math. If you were to get all of them, like you just did, it would be $790.

Barry Conrad
Just for the, just for the caveats.

Melanie Avalon
You know, thanks for having us.

Barry Conrad
sampler plate they should actually but i guess you can't really i guess you can't really sample plate beluga right because beluga is like yeah

Melanie Avalon
I'll have like a egg, like a single caviar egg. Oh my goodness.

And now we're at the sushi and Mackey section and they have sashimi and they have ora king salmon. I want, I want, oh my goodness. I want the lo me lo me ora king salmon with avocado, coriander and salmon row. I definitely want that.

Barry Conrad
I will definitely have one of those, but I also want five variations, 15 pieces of sashimi, which I could just, I could drink. It's like water. It's so easy to eat sashimi. I love it so much.

Melanie Avalon
I do love, I do, because it's basically just like fish.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. That's so good. Why is it so good? And it feels so good to digest.

Melanie Avalon
I can't even tell you how many times this is like another little thing I do. I go to Whole Foods, I think I've mentioned this before, I go to Whole Foods and I look at all of the salmon sashimi that they have and smoke salmon and it literally takes me because they have so many options there and it takes me like 15 minutes and then I don't ever buy any of them because I look at the sodium content and it's so high.

They're so salty. That's my answer to your question like why it tastes so good because it's very salty. And then they have Amazonico Bites which are, I can't speak this, Pesticos Amazonicos.

Barry Conrad
Amazonicos. Yeah, you got it. You want anything grabbing your attention from this list?

Melanie Avalon
Maybe if I can have, if they can create it deconstructed, the Patacones Machado's, which is pulled pork, crispy plantain, I can't speak any of this, a Chiodi. A Chiodi.

Okay, you know it. Seeds. I'll have the pork. Would you like to have all of it? And I'll have some of the pork.

Barry Conrad
Yes, definitely. Anything else? Who's just going to have that?

Melanie Avalon
If the crab was on the table and deconstructed, I would have some of the crab. The crayon grajo, dober crab, spicy cassava cake, and tomatillo sauce.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's what I was, I am the kangriho, it's dough crap, you know, getting that for sure and the epignadas, which is the wagyu beef, utla koche cream, which sounds really good and then also have to do the tekanyos, which is chicken rolls, Thai cheese and coriander sauce. Because I reckon these are quite small, these ones, these bites, they're bites.

Melanie Avalon
I need a, I need a visual of this restaurant again, hold on, from Yelp. Like I, I need a picture of it. Like what it actually looks like. Cause it's hard for me to tell from, it just looks so beautiful and luscious and such a vibe.

I want to go. I want to go.

Barry Conrad
It does look really good and the lighting is really low, which is great.

Melanie Avalon
low lighting, that's important. And like the colors are so beautiful.

Okay. Okay. So now we are, this menu just keeps going. Now we are at the Sal Teodos Walks section. And oh, look, look what we've got. We have vanilla marinated prawns, prawns with vermicelli noodles and peanut sauce called camarones. Ooh, I want that. I've never had vanilla marinated. Really? Have you?

Barry Conrad
I have not. I mean, it doesn't sound like- Giving me grief and then- I was like, really?

I was like, really? I have not. That didn't sound right. I was like, there really was like, really? It's like, it should have been really not really. No, I've never had been on headphones before, but it sounds really good. So that sounds like worth experiencing, but I'm not really into the rest of the walk situation. I'd rather save it for the rest coming up.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, sounds good. So now we are at are these like small plates that we've been going through like everything's been small, right? I feel like

Barry Conrad
I don't know how small they are. I mean, the bytes are small, but I don't think these are tiny or anything.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we are at Fish and Seafood. They have... I get sad when I see this.

I get sad because it is hands down my favorite fish and it tastes so good. It's like instant dopamine and it is very high in mercury. So I can't eat it anymore. Chilling sea bass.

Barry Conrad
Oh, the C-verse, okay. You can't do it.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Not at mmm-mmm. I think I would get the Wild Dover Soul. Linguado. That's a lower, that's a white lower mercury fish. Very approachable, very tender. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I'm actually going to bypass the Sifu this time because I'm going to stock up so much on the Sashimi before, and I'm going to go straight to the charcoal grilled meats, which is the next session. And that has got a Saloma de Wagyu Australian Wagyu Sirloin, which I am going to dig into. That looks really good.

Melanie Avalon
I think, okay, this is really hard. They have a Wagyu filet as well. Chillian Wagyu filet. But you know what? I actually think I want the Wagyu sirloin as well. Yeah, so two of those.

I will have it blue as rare as possible. How about you?

Barry Conrad
medium rare have to and then i'll probably i'm probably gonna have some sweet potato as a side i don't always go for the size but sweet potato sounds really good and i've been on a sweet potato double recently i love sweet potato so doing that

Melanie Avalon
Have you been trying all the sweet potatoes?

Barry Conrad
I've just been preparing it in different ways, I think it's just so tasty and so it makes me feel satiated and it's just, I don't know, it's just like a, I love it, I love sweet potatoes in general but sweet potatoes are really good.

Melanie Avalon
Have you had, um, it's the purple potato, the, uh, two I'm talking about. It's the name of like a country, the Okinawa purple sweet potato. It literally tastes like cake. It tastes so good.

I actually have not had it. Oh, you should, you should get it. It's really delicious.

Barry Conrad
Oh, yum, yum. Oh my gosh, is it prepared the same way? Look, it's the same consistency, like you boil it and then bake it or slash fry it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like whatever you want to do. But I just know like for me, when I first had it, I was like, this tastes like cake. It was so good. And high, very purple, so very high in polyphenols.

Barry Conrad
Very good. Shall we head to the desserts menu?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, the good thing about this place is this is the perfect place to have a savory dessert because they have they had so many like small seafood options that I could easily like reorder something for dessert. Like, so for me, I would get a repeat of whatever I had really liked before. So whether it was like the prawns or the salmon or, you know, they had a lot of options. So I whatever, whatever it was that I liked the most.

Barry Conrad
the many options. And I will definitely have to dive into two here.

One is gonna be the Choco Banana, for sure. Actually, no, let me zoom out. Chocolate L, it's the Chocolate L Moctezuma, which is hot chocolate fondant avocado ice cream. I've never had avocado ice cream before. And then also, because I love cheesecake, Amazonica style cheesecake, Choboticaba pears and almond, almond crumble. That sounds so good. So those two babies right there.

Melanie Avalon
Solid choices. Yeah, they have quite a few auctions.

I'm surprised that you didn't get the Wait, no. Oh, I thought I saw. Oh, no, never mind. I thought they had like a like a plantain thing, but it's it's banana dark chocolate

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I saw that first and I was like, I think the hot chocolate fondant is going to do me.

Melanie Avalon
Sounds like a plan. And then how about, oh, they have an ice cream tasting. I guess you could watch me have it, right? I just, I just love tastings.

The thing I like about tastings is that it kind of really, I feel like in today's modern society, we just like chow through food, we like eat huge quantities. When you have a tasting, it makes you and so pause, backtrack. So like, if you order like a meal, a delicious meal, I feel like most people, it's like that first taste where they have like the in the moment experience and they take it in, but then they kind of just like eat the rest of it. At least I know that's how I am. But when you have a tasting, it forces you to like, have that moment like on repeat, over and over, you know.

Barry Conrad
I agree. You just have to savor it and just enjoy it. Get the most out of it.

Melanie Avalon
I agree. Yeah. We could do a study and make it so if you only ate in the form of tastings, how would that affect everything? Your health, your weight? I feel like it would make people slow down.

Barry Conrad
I think that's actually a really good idea for a study, and I wonder if there's anything out there like that.

Melanie Avalon
I know I'm making a note, probably not, but.

Barry Conrad
It's making me even wonder, like, how would I even approach food if, like, what would I eat slower if I could have a little bit?

Melanie Avalon
Like they should do a study where they have participants, oh my gosh, okay, ready? Here it is. They have participants come have meals at a rush, this is what they do, at a restaurant and they make it seem, because the thing I've learned about studies, which is why if I am ever, have you been in a study before? No. The thing I've realized is they lie to you because half the time they want you to think they're testing something else because they don't want you to be like adjusting what they're testing.

So the thing I've learned is like if you go into a study, like I'm not going to believe anything they say to me. They're like, oh, we're testing this. I'm like, no, no, you're not. But regardless, so what you would do is you would have people come to like a restaurant and have meals and Barry, we should do the study and you would tell them that you're testing like, I don't know, something about like the atmosphere, like they wouldn't know that it's about the actual like food intake. And then you would get half of the participants, like a normal meal, but same amount of calories and then other participants, same amount of calories, but like a tasting and see how it affects like what people actually eat, like calorie wise and everything.

Barry Conrad
That sounds like a, yeah, we should do it.

Melanie Avalon
with all of our funding that we have and everything. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Should we go to drinks situation cocktails

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, do they also? Okay, now a picture just came up where they're doing like the slicing at the thing. Is this like a Brazilian steakhouse?

Barry Conrad
It is a Latin America themed flavored dishes and bold flavors. Not Brazilian per se.

Melanie Avalon
Like what menu what item on the menu was this? I just texted it to you It's like a picture of the guy like slicing the meat at the table.

Like that's what I want But I didn't what was that on the menu?

Barry Conrad
That looks really good. I'm not sure. Maybe that's how they actually serve the meat like they have like a medium rare stick or like a blue stick.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, probably. Okay. Okay. So drinks.

Barry Conrad
definitely just going to get me a, I'm looking at the cocktail list real quick and what I see here that I really like. And the wine is actually below the cocktails if you scroll, but I'm looking at what's catching my eye is definitely the, you know what? I'm going to go for the, ah, I've got to go for that. Pelomito, which is a Don Julio 1942 mango, jalapeno, lime pink grapefruit soda. That sounds like a good time right there.

Ah, and then the second drink, the Madeira, which is barrel aged, an Amiga, extra, anaggio, tequila, campari, capano, classico, pecan, amir, yamma. Just cocktailing it up.

Melanie Avalon
They have so many drinks. Their tequila list is insane.

Barry Conrad
Is anything catching the Eveline Eye in terms of wine?

Melanie Avalon
So I'm looking back and forth between like the options by the glass. Oh Okay, I'm looking at the the wine list now They have a lot of options.

I feel confident that I can well they have a lot of yeah there's like a lot of wines here, so I feel confident that if I Look through all of them. I could find something like low alcohol organic all the things I'm not very familiar because a lot of these are Like not European wines. So I'm which I'm not as familiar with so I would have to do my research, but I feel pretty but there are some there are some European I would find something is the point there are options here for sure

Barry Conrad
So many options, this place looks so good. I can't wait till we can eat and drink, it's gonna be so great.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, oh, whoa, wait, they do have a lot of French wines. Oh my goodness. Okay, yeah, we're good, we're good. I'll find something. No worries.

No worries. I wanna go. What did you, like, what did you Google to find this?

Barry Conrad
I can't reveal my secrets, I just like to find really good, you know, restaurants, you know, so I can present them to you and say, you know, let's go here, let's go here. Just like really amazing restaurants, amazing restaurants, good wine, wine list, good meat, good seafood.

Melanie Avalon
and good environment, like this place I would definitely want to go to, like vibe-wise.

Barry Conrad
That's why I chose it, because it's very melanable and coded. It's not just a regular place, you know?

Melanie Avalon
So for example, I went to, like, it was really nice, but I went to a Brazilian steakhouse, like, actually, I know when it was. It was the night before I got sick, not from the food, but just like timing-wise. So they were doing what the guy is doing in the picture where he's like slicing the steak at the table, but it did not have this vibe of like, I'm in a rainforest. So, awesome.

Okay, well, that was amazing. Now I'm hungry, now I want all the things. Thank you so much. Listeners, we hope you have had the best time with us as well as we have with you. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email us at questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can join our Facebook group, IFBioHackers, comment there, give us questions. We post there all the time. We love interacting with you, all the things. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 475. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifpodcast. I am Melanie Avalon and Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. Okay, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
That's all the things. Thank you once again for tuning in everyone. You're all amazing. Have an awesome week and we'll talk to you next week. Talk to you soon now.

Melanie Avalon
talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Barry Conrad
you

May 18

#474 – 4:3 Intermittent Fasting, Estrogen Detox, Fasting’s Effects on Eating Behaviors and Appetite Hormones, Reducing Binge Eating, Tobacco And Fasting, Weight Loss Plateaus, Sexual Assault Awareness, And More!

Effects of 4:3 Intermittent Fasting on Eating Behaviors and Appetite Hormones: A Secondary Analysis of a 12-Month Behavioral Weight Loss Intervention

Welcome to Episode 474 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

LINKS

STUDIES:

Relationship between smokeless tobacco use and body weight in young adult military recruits

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

Get a discount with the code melanieavalon at ketogenicgirl.com!

TANASI:

BIOPTIMIZERS

LEESA

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 474 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 474 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Melanie, how are you doing? I'm doing a really, really, really great. It's a beautiful, beautiful, sunny, warm, balmy, New York, spring kind of day, maybe a day that you wouldn't really like, but I love it so much. My mood's really high, spirits are lifted, and yeah, I'm feeling great.

How about yourself? How's your day?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I wish I was feeling that way. I'm good. Also warm hair. I actually have something really big happening next week and I'm trying to decide if I should talk about it. I feel like I should. It's just a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a sensitive topic. So if listeners have like young children listening, maybe they can fast forward a little bit. So yeah, I think I'll talk about it.

I think it's important. So when this comes out, this will be May. So this will have passed. I've really got to get better about like seeing when these are coming out. But April is actually sexual assault awareness month. And I am going to be doing a lot of campaigning and advocacy surrounding all of it and actually on Tuesday, like our Tuesday upcoming. So this will be way in the past by the time this airs, but I'm actually, I'm filing a civil lawsuit against the, I talked about this before on the show in the past. You know what? Now I realized when I talked about it, it was with Jen. So it must have been that long ago. I was sexually assaulted at a massage parlor. And so we, there was a criminal case for that. And that wrapped up. When did that wrap up? I think last year, but we're doing a civil lawsuit against the actual establishment. And I'm excited because we're going to, in addition to the lawsuit, we're going to have a press conference to help raise awareness surrounding all of this. I want people to know that I think not that this is good, but I think things like this are more common than a lot of people realize. And I think people don't really talk about it, or things might happen to people and they don't really know what to do. So I'm just trying to speak more openly about it to make people know that if something happens to them, you know, they can speak up, go to law enforcement, tell somebody, I actually spent the, like this past week, I read the entirety of the Georgia law surrounding massage parlors. And that's something I learned. They can't be called massage parlors. They have to be called, they can't use the word parlor actually. I learned so much about all the laws. But what was really motivating about it was I realized there actually are a lot of laws to protect people in these situations. I do think though, there's a problem with like funding and enforcement and, you know, how often are establishments being checked on to make sure that they're following all the protocols. So for example, like in Georgia, there is supposed to be like licenses on the wall with the pictures of the practitioners, you're actually supposed to and this has not happened to me at most places I've gone, but you're supposed to actually give written consent before you have a massage. But there's actually a lot of laws protecting people, which is really nice. So I am just taking this moment to spread some awareness and we will see how it goes next week with the filing the lawsuit and having the press conference. So I'm just going to share that.

Barry Conrad
That is really, first of all, thank you so much for sharing that. That's a brave thing to share, Mel, and it's so important, the advocacy for this topic.

This happened so much. I was just talking to a friend who told me that she was sexually assaulted at a job of hers in the past as well. That happened so much. All people, there's blurred lines even at parties or even with friends, quote unquote, friends. I just think this is so important and powerful that you're sharing this and using your platform to do that. I really hope it goes well at the press conference. Do you have to speak yourself at it as well? Are you going to appear?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's like me being interviewed. So it's a lot. I feel like it's baptism by fire just because I mean, I've never filed a lawsuit before. So that's a whole experience and like working with lawyers. And I have really, really amazing lawyers who are very mission driven. So I'm really grateful to be working with them.

And then I'm actually going to be partnering with so Alana Stott, who has been a guest on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast twice. She is an incredible woman who does amazing things. She was actually given an award to her by the King of England for her work supporting vulnerable women. She runs the Blue Rose Foundation, which works to address the systemic issue of both sexual assault, human trafficking, all the things. So I'm very honored to be partnered with her.

I'm very grateful to have a platform to be able to talk about it. And yeah, if people just go to rain.org, which is r a i n n dot o r g, you can read all the statistics. And there's just so many statistics, like 443,000 is the estimated amount of people 12 and over who experienced sexual violence each year in the US. 54% are between the ages of 18 to 34. One in six women has experienced attempted or completed rape in her lifetime. One in 33 men the same. So it's just in the you can read a whole lot more statistics there. But I yeah, I just thank you as well for speaking about it too. And so friends, listeners, just want people to know that there are resources out there. And I know can be hard to speak up if something happens. But I think it's really important that we start speaking up about this. And I'm just sorry that this happens. Absolutely.

Barry Conrad
Absolutely. Do you feel, Mel, that this has been going on for so long, waiting for this press conference and filing the lawsuit, what are you feeling right now at this point?

Did you expect to feel the way that you do? Do you feel differently? Do I expect it to feel

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. That's a really good question. And this is actually very helpful, because I haven't done any. I've just been like preparing by working on the actual lawsuit, so revisiting everything. And then, like I said, reading through all the laws and reading through the statistics and things like that. So as far as like how I'm feeling, I'm nervous because... So I did do one news interview on this prior.

It actually happened last week when... Not last week, when journalists were covering another case that my lawyers did prior to me, which involved the same perpetrator. So that was actually my... I was really nervous about that interview, because that was my first time ever talking about it publicly to the news, to the press. So I just don't really know what to expect. So I'm nervous, but I'm gonna try to be as prepared as possible with, you know, the statistics. And I will say what's really interesting. Two things. One, I can hands down, hands down say I'm grateful it happened to me. No question, because it has really made me really passionate about the issue. So I am grateful that it happened, because I can talk about it now. Interestingly, I remember I used to see people talking about things like this. And I used to wonder if that became their entire identity, which I don't want it to be my entire identity. So I have this weird... It's like, how do I talk about this freely and openly and ongoingly and also not make it like part of my identity, if that makes sense? That's something I kind of struggle with. But that aside, I don't feel like it's part of my identity is the point. Like I don't think about it 24 seven or anything like that. But sometimes I feel like if this is all people see of me, they might think this is like the entirety of me, which that's not the case, if that makes sense.

Barry Conrad
I totally understand. And also, it's one of those things that you can't control, you know?

It's like people are either going to stop there and that might be their only, quote unquote, encounter with you or impression of you. And some people will stop and research and find out more. And also, it's just one of those things like where people often take us for face value, especially issues like this. And also, it's again, like you're so brave to speak out about it in spite of how you might appear. And I think you're just doing it, shows that you're doing it for the right reasons and that you'll be fine. You know, you're not carrying away from the topic and what's happening, which is awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much. I really, I really appreciate it.

And we shall see how it goes on Tuesday. The good thing is I imagine, because I do think, I think a lot of the news stations will be there. I'm actually not sure exactly what it's gonna look like, but I'm hoping one of the reporters will be the one that I interviewed with before. So that would be nice.

Yeah, we shall see.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, let me know, keep me posted so I can tune in or is it going to be a live situation or something pre-recorded, you know?

Melanie Avalon
I actually don't know. The last thing I did, they prerecorded it, but they aired it like the next day. So, and we're doing it on, so because April is sexual assault awareness month, we're actually doing it. So April 7th is actually day of action for the entire month. So it's like the day where this is really high caliber information and like, there's a spotlight on it in the news. So that's why we picked that day.

Big times, big days. I know. So stay tuned on that note. How are things in your life? It's been a while since we've recorded personally. People don't realize that, but.

Barry Conrad
It is really funny in podcast land. People just get the episodes every week, but sometimes listeners, we go a couple of weeks without actually recording. So, uh, we haven't caught up properly until now. So this is all in real time and this is how we roll.

I most recently wrapped the whole South by Southwest situation, which was such an amazing experience. It was great. It was just absolutely one of the best experiences I've honestly ever had professionally and personally, it was just incredible. And for those who don't know, it's a massive annual festival in Austin where leaders in music, film, and TV tech innovation and more gather. And it's, it's, it's amazing. And I got to be the face and host of Australia house there. And the energy was just constant. Every time I walked in there, it felt like something massive was happening. You've got panels going on, creative connecting people, just having those. This could turn into something kind of conversations. And for me, my favorite would have to be moderating the film panels. That was so now that was so fulfilling sitting there with actors, directors, producers, geeking out and talking about how the sausage is made for work was just so cool and like how projects come together, what it takes to get a film made setbacks, the winds, all the above. I feel like it was a real stake in the ground for me to being here now, you know, and in the States, which is great. And I love that it wasn't just so full of surface level conversations. The conversations were really genuine and you could feel the audience really leaning into it and you walk out of there, you're suddenly in this completely different conversation about I'm learning so much about AI and, and all these industries I don't really know much about. So that was great too. So I have to give a, have to definitely give a shout out to Stephen Marshall and Laura Leventhal from the American Australian association for having me like, thank you so much. Cause what they pulled off with Australia house was incredible. Like, so Mel, yeah, I'm just still in a high and I'm super proud to be an Aussie here in the States. And I thought that, well, I don't know what I thought, but I didn't think I'd be Aussie would Australia be following me so closely, you know, still.

Melanie Avalon
So amazing, oh my goodness. So when you were, so you were moderating the talks, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so I had two jobs. So one was hosting Australia House in general, like, you know, welcome everybody, like, you know, linking from event to event, and then also moderating the actual film projects. So sitting on stage with like a panel of the crew and the cast and the directors and actually talking and I guess banter with BCing or the IF podcasting on stage, kind of like, you know, preparing and getting questions ready. And it was really great.

It was so much fun. And it's funny as well, because you don't realize how podcasting and connecting with people prepares you for things like that.

Melanie Avalon
Did you watch all the films before?

Barry Conrad
We got to get a cheat. Some of them weren't released until the actual festival, so we got a cheat sheet of what it was about. Some of them we had trailers, some of them we had the actual shorts. But we just had to deep dive as much as we could, because as well, some people came at the last minute and whatnot.

Because as you know, there was this massive flight situation at the time. This is in the future now. So people's flights were getting canned. So it's like, who's coming? Who's not? So you just had to kind of be ready for whatever. And so that in itself was also good, because it's being thrown into the deep end and just having to think on your feet and having your experience kick in and just having to do it, which I love so much.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I was super curious thinking about that because I was wondering how you prepared to like have the interviews and ask the questions if you know, if you hadn't seen all the movies, but they, they gave you like lots of information.

Barry Conrad
Yes info and but the ones that we didn't have it was really a case of heck I'm just gonna step out for a second and literally just quickly doing some research for people that just got added last minute things like that so. It was it was great it was yeah it was a real lesson in flying by the seat of your pants and also just flying the ozzy flag and stepping into it all with confidence was awesome.

Melanie Avalon
What was your favorite interview?

Barry Conrad
Gosh. Speaking to Linda Duncombe was really great.

So she was an executive producer of The Queen's Jewels and her and her director, you know, business partners while they were on their talking. And the funny thing about why I chose her was when I went to G'day. And Melanie, you were like, is it G'day? The funny thing is the connection is when I was lining up for the Red Carpet at G'day USA, this gregarious, fun, blonde, tall, amazing Aussie woman was standing in front of me just on the carpet, fun banter, so much fun. She is Linda Duncombe. So we were just like, unbeknownst to us, like on lining up next thing, interviewing her about, you know, the film and stuff. So it was really cool. And just the two weeks of separation, you never know who you meet. You just, you know,

Melanie Avalon
It was great. Oh my goodness. Well, I am so proud of you. Look at you.

Come into the U.S. and immediately, I mean, you go to one of the coolest conferences that we have here in the U.S. for this industry. Like honestly, like everybody knows about South by Southwest and you're like the face of Australia. Like, that's amazing.

Barry Conrad
I only wish I got to see more of it and I know Mel offline as well. We tried to coordinate some hangs and stuff with a mutual friend that you had, but it's too big next time, next time when there's more time.

Melanie Avalon
No, definitely. There will be many more to come, so congrats.

Barry Conrad
Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
All right. Well, so many things. Shall we jump into some fasting related things?

Barry Conrad
I reckon we should.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I have a study this week and it's called the effects of 4-3, intermittent fasting on eating behaviors and appetite hormones, a secondary analysis of a 12-month behavioral weight loss intervention. So, this study was carried out at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus by Matthew Breit and Caldwell, Danielle Austin-Dorf and their team and it was published in Nutrients in 2025. So now what they did here was follow 165 adults who are overweight or obese, mostly women with an average age of 42, over a full year, so 12 months. And that's important because a lot of, well most studies that I've come across anywhere only run for definitely not anywhere near 12 weeks, maybe a few weeks or a couple months. So this gives us a much clearer picture of what actually happens over time.

They split people into two groups. One group followed a 4-3 intermittent fasting approach. So that means three days a week they ate only about 20% of their normal calories, so pretty low intake on those days and then on the other four days they ate normally. So that the second group did daily calorie restriction, so just ate fewer calories every single day, no fasting. And this is a really fair comparison because of the time and also they really, really, really tracked the variables. So both groups were given the same total weekly calorie target and everyone was encouraged to do about 300 minutes of moderate exercise a week, so it wasn't just about one group trying harder than the other group in any way. But where it gets really interesting is like over that 12 months, the fasting group actually improved how they behaved around food, which really caught my attention.

So their binge eating went down and to explain that to people who might not know, binge eating means when you're eating large copious amounts of food with a feeling of losing control and that situation really improved. So uncontrolled eating also went down, which is that feeling of not being able to stop once you start. In contrast, the daily calorie restriction group actually got worse in both those areas over time. So the longer they were trying to eat less every day, the more they actually struggled with control. And the researchers, they also looked at emotional eating, which I know a lot of people do experience and that's when you're eating because of stress or mood rather than just hunger and something called cognitive restraint. So for those who don't know what that means, that just means you're constantly using your willpower to try and hold yourself back from eating, wowsers. And so in the fasting group, the people who improved the most in those areas were also the ones who lost the most weight. So that link didn't just show up in the calorie restriction group at all. So eating less every single day didn't lead to a better control or a better relationship with food necessarily. They also measured appetite hormones.

Barry Conrad
So you've got your leptin, which signals that fullness, ghrelin, which increases hunger, PYY, which helps you feel satisfied, and BDNF, which is involved in brain function and appetite regulation. Both groups, Mel, showed normal changes you'd expect with any sort of weight loss. So leptin went down a bit, ghrelin went up a bit, but there were also no meaningful differences between the two groups. So the benefits seen in the fasting group weren't because of hormonal changes.

They were because of the structure of the actual fasting. So zooming out, what does that actually mean? From what I get from this, it sort of suggested to me that intermittent fasting can really help people feel more in control around food over time, less reactive, and just reaching for whatever's on the shelf or reaching for whatever's in the grocery store, less emotional eating, less of that sort of chaotic feeling around eating. And for me, that's really stood out the most. It's not just about eating less food. It's about building a pattern that actually helps your behavior. And those changes held over a full year. So Mel, I reckon this is really super encouraging for people out there listening who may want structure, but without feeling like they have to, quote, unquote, diet all day. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Wow. Yeah. So I love the study. It's really, really interesting that they had no significant changes between the hunger-related hormones in both groups, and yet they still saw the benefits in the fasting group.

You know, because then it's like that tells you that like physiologically, it tells you that like you were saying that there's something about beyond the actual hormones that has more to do with like behavior and I guess your perspective and your experience of it that is having such great effects beyond just the literal, like what's changing in your body. That's really, really interesting. I don't think I would have expected that. I don't know what I would have expected, honestly. I also, obviously, I just love that with fasting, you can get the benefits that people are so often seeking with calorie restriction, which is, you know, weight loss and, you know, a better feeling of body composition and feeling better in their skin, but without that crazy restrictive feeling and feeling like you need to overcompensate and binge and emotionally eat and all the things. And we've been talking about studies like this for a while, but it's really nice to keep talking about them because I think one of the biggest like PR problems fasting has in general is that I think when people hear fasting, they think, oh, that's overly restrictive or that's going to make you, people think like, oh, if you fast, that's going to make you binge after. They think it's like it will have the opposite effect. So it's really nice to hear that that is not the case. And I also love that it's a year, that is a long study.

Barry Conrad
That is a long study. I was like, these people, that's a long time to sign up for anything a year for especially a being part of a study. So cute as to those people. I'm curious to see where they're at now, but that I was just fascinated generally, the behavioral piece.

Like I did not expect that I will say speaking from experience, the freedom that I feel around food now versus before I started intermittent fasting. I can't even describe and that sounds cheesy, but it's so true. Nothing's off limits. And I think that's why reframing like a healthy narrative narrative around food for me personally really began with intermittent fasting. And I'm so, so happy about that.

Melanie Avalon
same here, you could not pay me to go back to when I was, you know, just eating consistently throughout the day. It was so miserable because I was always, because I love food. And so I love food and I also, it was literally just like always trying to make a decision about can I, should I, will I eat again or not? And once I start eating, can I, should I, will I stop eating or not? And then like rinse and repeat and then never really feeling satisfied because if I felt satisfied, that probably meant I ate too much, like, you know, it was, it's exhausting, honestly.

And now it's just, I don't even think about it. I function so much better in the fasted state, like energetically and doing my work and everything and mood wise and just all the things. And then I get to eat all the, all the food every night.

Barry Conrad
Drink the wine, eat the food.

Melanie Avalon
Drink the wine, eat the food. So awesome, awesome study. Thank you so much for finding it. And relatively, you know, July 25 as well, so yay. Okay, shall we jump into some fasting questions?

Barry Conrad
Uh, first question that we have this week comes from Amy and Amy says, I'm wondering what foods would support the detox of estrogen from my body and which foods I should avoid if that's my goal and any other hormone optimizing tips you might have to offer. No, only what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, Amy. Thank you so much for your question. Okay, so first of all, so let's talk about what detoxing estrogen actually means. So, estrogen is a sex hormone. We have, you know, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. We need estrogen. Estrogen is a good thing. And at the same time, our lifestyle today often leads to estrogen dominance, where we have too much estrogen, a lot that has to do with our exposure to endocrine disruptors, the food we're eating, our lifestyles.

On the flip side, you know, some women might struggle with low estrogen and might benefit from hormone replacement therapy. But regardless, so the context of detoxing estrogen, there's actually three phases to it. So, phase one is when estrogen is converted through some different enzymes. That's the first phase. And then phase two is when it's conjugated through methylation, glucuronidation, and sulfation. So basically, the estrogen that has been converted is made water soluble. And then phase three, it is eliminated. So that water soluble converted estrogen is eliminated through bile and the stool. And the gut microbiome actually plays a big role in this. People might have heard of the estribolum. And that's this process, convert all the things, estrogen. Actually, definitely check out Cynthia Thurlow, former co-host on this show, check out her new book, which is called The Menopause Gut. She dives deep into all of the science of the gut microbiome and how it relates to estrogen. I was actually talking to her today, by the way. Okay, so how can you support proper estrogen detox? And I like to think about it more as like, not so much detox, because again, estrogen in and of itself is not a quote, bad thing, we just need it in the right amounts, and we need to properly utilize it. So I like to think about it more as like, estrogen, like estrogen handling, or estrogen clearance. So foods that help support that, cruciferous vegetables, they contain a compound called glucocetalates, which are converted into sulforaphane, which people might have heard of, that actually helps support that phase one shift that I was talking about. So you can get those in things like broccoli and Brussels sprouts and cauliflower and kale. So cruciferous vegetables for the win. Also, allium vegetables, so things like garlic, onions, leeks, those can help support the production of glutathione, which supports the phase two part that I talked about, where estrogen is made water soluble. And then high fiber foods are really helpful because they can bind to conjugated estrogen in the gut, and they can help reduce reabsorption of too much estrogen, which would like recirculate throughout the blood. So those are things like flaxseed, chia berries, lentils. And then as a side note, high fiber foods, I've been doing deep dives on the gut microbiome recently. High fiber foods really help support the gut microbiome. And again, the microbiome is playing a key role in helping you moderate, modulate, deal with estrogen. You also need protein. So phase two conjugation really needs protein, and protein also helps support liver detox enzymes.

Melanie Avalon
You need amino acids for those methylation processes. So we're big fans of protein around here. So keep your protein up.

At that last phase where estrogen is eliminated in the stool, in particular, bile flow helps stimulate that. So having bitter foods can help support bile flow. So things like dandelion greens or artichoke or arugula. So those are a lot of foods if you want to specifically target your estrogen system. You also just need nutrients in general. So you need nutrients to support the whole process. You need B6, you need B12, folate, magnesium, zinc, selenium. So just making sure that you're eating a nutrient rich diet, very, very important.

And then on the flip side, if you're trying to lower your estrogen levels, you definitely want to minimize foods that are going to increase problematic estrogen levels. So that means minimizing processed foods, ultra processed foods, anything inflammatory, excess alcohol, sad day that can actually impair, I mean, people will not be shocked by that, but that can impair your liver detox pathways, and also increase circulating estrogen, high sugar raises insulin and can have a negative effect on your estrogen levels, industrial seed oils, we talk about those a lot.

So those contribute to systemic inflammation. And then, like I mentioned at the very beginning, all of these endocrine disruptors that we are exposed to, so environmentally and the plastics, they're in the food we eat, they're in our skincare and makeup, just minimizing all of that can really help your estrogen burden in general.

And then there's a lot of debate out there about soy and flax and phytoestrogen. And I literally asked this question to anybody who I think knows something about it. I'm always curious their opinion because I know personally, for me, I've been like, Oh, don't eat the soy for like a long time. That said, well, I do think I do know the majority of soy in our modern diet is processed and GMO I don't it's not the same thing as like whole foods, organic soy based products like they're having in Asia per se.

However, soy does contain phytoestrogens as does flax. And these phytoestrogens are selective estrogen receptor modulators. So what that means is that they can compete with endogenous estrogen. So they can actually be protective of your body's uptake of estrogen, but context does matter. So, you know, you want to make sure that you're getting if you are having phytoestrogens that you're having them in like whole foods form, non GMO, organic, and you know, finding what works for your body.

And then she was asking about any other hormone optimizing tips in general. So I mean, I feel like a broken record, but managing your glycemic control. So doing fasting is, you know, really going to help with that stress management and sleep. So so important, so important, they can make when we're sleep deprived, when we're stressed, it can make our hormones go haywire, it increases cortisol, it lowers progesterone, it just creates a not good hormonal state in the body.

Melanie Avalon
So supporting sleep, supporting stress, and also doing like strength training very important because that's going to improve insulin sensitivity, and support healthy estrogen balance as well. Lifestyle wise, I really, really especially like with estrogen, I'm just so big on these endocrine disruptors. So there's two, two major exposures of this to like people have in their lifestyle, I think each and every day. So skincare and makeup, I've talked about that ad nauseam. It's shocking everything that's in there.

So making sure that you're using clean brands. I love counter and crunchy. They are incredible brands. And then also your cleaning products in your house can be a big source of exposure to toxins every day. So we've started working recently with Branch Basics. And I am so excited about them. They make really epic cleaning products. And what I really, really like about how it works, I didn't know this was how it worked when I because I had heard of them before. But I thought they were like pre made products. First of all, they have a glass option that I love because plastics are a source of endocrine disruptors. So they have plastic, but they also have glass. So you can order glass bottles. And you get like a kit like a set like a starter set. And then it's so sustainable and so like, like user friendly, it's kind of like DIY cleaning without the complexity and annoyingness of making your own products because they have like their concentrate, which is their super non toxic cleaning solution with like biodegradable. It's on EWG verified, like it's really good cleaning stuff that's non toxic. And the bottles have it's just so fun mixing it up. So the bottles have like lines and it's like water line and then like concentrate line. So you just fill the bottle based on what it is because they have like, like cleaning spray for around your apartment or house or wherever you are. They have like a window, you know, like street free clean glass stuff. They have a foaming wash for your hands. They have a bathroom one. So all you do is like you pour the water into the bottle up into the line and then you top it off with the concentrate up into the next line. And then you're like good to go. And then it's so sustainable because then you have the bottles and then you just reorder the concentrate. So if you want to switch out all of your cleaning products for non toxic products to support your estrogen balance, definitely check out branch basics.

And you can get 15% off when you go to branch basics.com slash I have podcast. And definitely again, like I said, they have starter sets. So definitely get one of those but it's branch basics.com slash I have podcast use the code I have podcast for 15% off. So that was a lot of information. Barry do you have thoughts?

Barry Conrad
Mel, you answered that so comprehensively and amazingly. I don't have anything else I could add.

I was going to talk about the vegetables, the protein, which you smashed as well, the stress management, all those things, you know, sleep, all that. You covered everything. There's nothing more I can add to make that any better than what you just did. But thank you so much for your question, Amy.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, thank you, Amy.

Barry Conrad
Yeah and it's just one of those things where you know like your body is already designed to process and eliminate. Excess estrogen so i wouldn't say the goal is to force a detox you know and it's it's about support the liver support the guts stabilize your blood sugar sleep well lift heavy things manage to eat protein and hormones tend to respond pretty well to that foundation i reckon.

Melanie Avalon
I cannot agree more. And I think it's so funny because I think people hear the word detox and they're like, Oh, that means do like a juice cleanse or like a fast and really detox, like you said, it really starts with having nutrients to support detox, which a big one of those is things like protein.

Yeah, so basically giving your body all of the support that it needs so it can do what it's made to do is the key and then also reducing your exposure to all of these things in the first place. So you got this, Amy. Thank you so much for the amazing question.

Barry Conrad
You got this, Amy.

Melanie Avalon
Shall we go on to our next question?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
So we have a question from Bob. The subject is plateau slash body fat loss slash tobacco use. And Bob says, first off, I love your podcast. Thanks so much for all the information. I have an hour drive to and from work each day. So I have listened to a lot of your episodes thus far. I'm addicted. I've been doing this 16 eight clean fast for 15 days thus far, but did already do a 38 hour fast to see how I handled it. So far so good. I have really enjoyed if a little background on me. I'm currently 42 years old. And in October of 2018, I started a kickboxing class. The classes kickboxing every other day and then band workouts in between. It is fairly high intensity. The diet is a balanced diet, 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat. I started at a weight of 282 pounds. I'm now 230 pounds, but I've hit a plateau, which is why I'm now trying if one other note is that my body fat has been reduced from 29% to 21%. Wow. My maintenance goal weight is 210 pounds and 14% body fat. My question is whether or not any specific foods or diets can help with expediting body fat loss or if I just stick with IF.

I've also chewed tobacco for quite a while and want to quit, but it is so difficult. I was curious what chewing tobacco could be doing to me during a fasting period. I have contemplated just chewing on parsley or cilantro during a fast. Would this impact my fasting period if I did this?

I know this habit is not good, but I would be interested to hear your feedback on this subject. Thanks again for the help and I absolutely love your podcast. All right, Bob. Barry, what thoughts do you have for Bob?

Barry Conrad
Bob, first up, mate, I've got to say I really appreciate the message and I love that the show is part of your daily drive. How good is that? That's awesome. There's something about that coming time when you can really lock into it and absorb all the stuff that you're hearing. So we're stoked that you're in your ears for that, Bob.

And before I even get into your question, I also need to say what you've already done, like going from 282 down to 230, that's massive. That's not just a weight loss situation, that's a lifestyle overhaul. So well done. That's consistency, that's discipline, it's showing up over a long period of time. So don't lose sight of that just because you've hit this plateau.

And okay, let's dive into what your question is here. Plattoes at this stage, Bob, are actually pretty normal. As you get leaner, our body adapts. So metabolism adjusts, our energy expenditure drops slightly, and your body becomes more efficient. So fat loss can naturally slow down, and it does often. So that's not a failure, that's physiology and part of the ride. You also say here, you've introduced intermittent fasting, awesome. You're doing a 16-8, even tested a 38-hour fast, and you're enjoying it, so that's another big win.

You know, I reckon enjoyment equals that sustainability for the long, long game, which is what you want. Your main question you say here is, is there specific food or diet that's going to maybe accelerate or speed up the fat loss? Short answer, Bob, there's no magic food. Long answer. The research we're seeing, and we know actually supports this, that even large reviews are showing that intermittent fasting tends to produce a similar weight loss. It can produce a similar weight loss to traditional dieting over a long time, but where it does shine is how it changes your metabolic environment and how easy it is to stick to.

We just talked about earlier in the show about behavior around food, and that is such a massive win as well, and that's going to also affect the way you might reach for what's on the shelf or what's at home and what you might gravitate towards. And paired with exercise, which you're already doing, you're going to lose even more fat while preserving that lean muscle, most importantly, which I know matters to you, and as a man and matters to me as well. In terms of personally speaking, I can say that really prioritizing your protein is going to be a big, big factor because even just carrying around more muscle, Bob, means you're burning fat. So just making sure you're getting enough protein in there.

You could even try carb cycling. You could even have higher protein days paired with lower carb and higher fat or vice versa. You can play around with that to see if that shifts any body fat because sometimes for what works for one person with that combo, it doesn't work for the next person. So for me, speaking personally, when I switch to that high protein, almost no carbs, like really low carbs, I know I'm going to shed the fat or drop a whole lot of water weight as well pretty quickly.

Barry Conrad
So that's one suggestion. The lever, it's not just special foods. It's how everything works together here. So you're already doing a lot right.

You're doing your consistent training, your structured routine, you've got your foundation sorted. From here, I reckon let's dial it in even more. So refining it, keep the protein high. I'd also look at recovery. So what are you doing to rest? What are you consuming in between workouts? You're doing your high intensity there, your resistance, and your fasting, and fasting is a natural stress on our system anyway. So what are you doing to recover as well?

So things like sleep, your recovery, your stress levels, even if they're slightly off, fat loss can stool more than it needs to. Even when everything else is quote unquote, like dialed in and perfect. So that's something that could be a tweak. Sometimes as well, I would say, and I know it's easiest here than done, but sometimes next level isn't more intensity. Do you know what I mean? So not pushing more fasting, not pushing more training. It's actually better recovery. And a lot of people don't like to hear that because it sounds like, I'm not doing anything, but the doing is in the rest as well. About the tobacco piece, thanks for sharing that, by the way, you know, a lot of people chew tobacco and nicotine does have some effects on appetite and metabolism, but Bob, it's not going to do you any favors overall. So it is a stressor again on the body and research also shows that fasting is not like a magic pool. It doesn't cancel out those effects necessarily. It just changes how the body processes nicotine. So from an overall health standpoint, moving to quitting it at some point is the boss move, I reckon.

Going for that, you know, in your time. Your idea of using pasta or cilantro, love cilantro, by the way, I actually get that. Now, from a strict fasting perspective. And chewing anything isn't really a clean fast because it's still, you're taking in food and you're going to trigger that digestive response. But I'm being real with you, if that's a stepping stone to quitting tobacco, it's better to take that trade in the short term.

The bigger win is getting off the tobacco. So you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water kind of thing. So you can tighten up your fast later. Zooming out again, let's look at where you are. Now, you've lost your significant amount of weight, Bob, you've built your strong habits, you're still building them, you've added fasting, you're training so much now you're in that phase where it's all about the patients. The patients matters more than the hacks right now.

So as I said, again, keep your protein high, stay consistent with your fasting, prioritize that recovery and sleep and train smart, give your body time. Your goal of 210 is insight. If you can get to where you got already, I have no doubt you're going to get there. And lower body fat is absolutely achievable from here. It's just going to come slower than that first phase. So honestly, that's where the real transformation happened and you're already doing it. So well done, Bob. Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
That was an incredible, awesome answer to all of the things. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, I really echo you, you've said all that so well, and I'll just emphasize even more, so again, Bob, you've made incredible, incredible gains.

No pun intended with everything you've only been doing as at the time of writing this question, only, you know, 15 days of fasting. So that is not a long time. I know he did the, like the 38 hour fast before that, but only two weeks into fasting, basically I would keep writing it out before bringing in the heavier guns with like different dietary adjustments and things like that, because you can always make, you can always like try things in the future to, you know, make even more progress, but you relatively recently, again, at the time of this question, which might be a little bit old, but you relatively recently had just started fasting. So like give the fasting time to kind of kick in and for you to experience the benefits from that. So I would, I would literally just like keep writing out the fasting. And like Barry was saying, focusing on the protein intake to both support your hunger and your metabolism and your satiety levels and also your muscle, which is going to be key during all of this. And then, you know, maybe after you've done this a month, if you're still in this plateau phase or still not making the progress that you want to see, that's when I would tweak things a little bit more, which is you could look at, you know, because he doesn't actually say what easy and he says, he says the macros, but he doesn't say, okay, so the macros are like our balance, like 30% carbs, 30% fat. So something I would try, if you're not experiencing the results that you want to be experiencing in like a month, then try maybe either a low carb or a low fat, higher carb diet, and see if, you know, skewing the macros one way or the other, you know, helps you break through that plateau.

And people are sometimes surprised. Some people do better with low carbs. Some people do better with low fat. Some people do better switching back and forth. Also, of course, focusing on whole foods, not getting those foods from processed foods, all of these things can really help. And then to echo and talk about the tobacco. So it's interesting because since you want, I wonder, and I know this is like a big thing about habits, especially with like people who are smoking or chewing tobacco, a lot of it is not actually like nicotine addiction per se. I mean, that is obviously a part of it. And at the same time, a huge part of that, a huge part of it is just the habit. So like the environmental cues, like they, like people associate that habit with stress relief, or there might be like an oral fixation part to it, you know, we're like, and I, which I'm, I'm guessing that is part of it because you're wanting to replace it with chewing on something else. So to me, that says that it's something about like the chewing habit that's probably kind of addictive for you beyond any of nicotine's actual addictive potential. So like the question is, and, and anytime we're like chewing during the fast.

Melanie Avalon
Chewing is something that historically, we would only be doing while eating. Like back in the day as hunter-gatherers, we weren't really, well, I don't know. They might, I don't know if they went around chewing on like leaves and stuff for their, but in general, like when you're chewing, it's because you're eating. So if you can, you know, embrace the fasting as a time of not eating and cut yourself off from that chewing habit, I think that will be very helpful.

And if the actual, you know, nicotine addiction is a part of the chewing tobacco, because I don't know like the, I don't know the extent of how much nicotine is actually in chewing tobacco versus like smoking, for example, but I am actually a fan of nicotine patches, which I have talked about on the show. Like I literally wear them for their cognitive benefits. So, you know, if you could, and the nice thing about patches is they don't have that chewing habit associated with them or smoking habit associated with them. It's literally just like putting on a patch. So they're easier to wean off of, in my opinion, because you can just stop putting the patch on or you can like titrate down, titrate up, whatever it may be. I echo what Barry was saying, encouraging you about getting off of the chewing tobacco habit. I, it's interesting because I did find one study looking at like chewing tobacco specifically. It was looking at not, quote, non-smokeless forms of nicotine consumption, i.e. not cigarettes, but like tobacco instead. And it actually found that it was not associated with weight loss. Like people might, because people associate like smoking and nicotine with weight loss, but chewing tobacco might be a little bit different. And then at least in the one study I read, it was associated with weight gain, interestingly enough. So whatever, but also studies find the opposite as well. So the findings are mixed, but I do think with chewing tobacco compared to, it's not as intense in the direction of a weight loss connection that there is with like straight up nicotine or smoking. So anything you can do to, like Barry was saying, to move out of that habit, I think will be really great.

And what's really key, and you can, there are a lot of like books on like breaking habits and things like that. What's really key, at least for me, is like replacing it. Like it's really hard to just stop doing something. So you need to like replace the cue with something else, which it sounds like you're trying to do with the parsley or the cilantro. The thing is, like we were saying, chewing parsley and cilantro, technically you're like chewing a food related item. So probably better than the tobacco. I mean, yes, better than the tobacco, I would say. That said, not the ideal alternative. So I would work on breaking that habit as best as you can, but you're doing an amazing job. Really, really epic with all of the exercise and the weight loss and all the things. Any other thoughts from you, Barry?

Barry Conrad
No, you're killing it, seriously. And please let us know how you go. I mean, 15 days from the point you wrote that, so let us know where you are now, what your progress is, whether you're closer to your target. Keep us posted.

But thank you so much for writing in and we're wishing you the best. You got this.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes. OK, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm going to give you a choice.

Barry Conrad
Okay.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, a choice. I know.

I have two Disney restaurants. One is brand new. It's in Disneyland Paris and it's like on the finer dining side. And then one is a staple that's been around for a long time that I'm dying to go to that I haven't been to that has an interesting like antics involved.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go with that one because that sounds, I'm curious, the interesting antics and yeah, let's go with that one.

Melanie Avalon
So, I am dying to go to this restaurant. It is called Whispering Canyon Cafe. It's at Disney's Wilderness Lodge, which is one of their hotels. Although, wait, is Wilderness Lodge the one where you stay in, like, oh, it's that one. It's the pretty one. Okay. Yeah. So, it's actually a very stunning-looking hotel based on America's Great Northwest. But apparently, this restaurant called Whispering Canyon, apparently, it's Western-inspired fare with all-you-can-eat skillets. But they have, quote, shenanigans because apparently, the server's there. It's all a very, like, dry sense of humor. Apparently, they all act like they hate you. Not really, but, like, kind of. And apparently, they do just, like, crazy, weird, funny things. Like, I don't know. Like, if you ask for, like, ketchup, they bring you, like, 12 bottles of ketchup. They, like, throw straws at you. Like, if you ask for a refill, they bring you, like, a massive refill. They basically just, like, make fun of you. It sounds really fun.

That sounds fun. This place, yeah, this is a vibe. We should go. And they have all-you-can-eat skillets featuring meat. Oh, my God. That's heaven to me. I know. So, I really want to know. Let me see. Hold on.

Barry Conrad
I want to look up one of these.

Melanie Avalon
I want like a list of things that they do. Okay, let's see.

Okay, so some things that they might do, for example, yeah, so asking for catch-up often results in the server shouting, leading to other guests bringing all available catch-up bottles to your table until it is overflowing. They have jail time. If misbehaving, complaining, or being rowdy might result in guests, especially kids, being placed in a jail, quote, jail, large refills. If you ask for a refill, they bring in like a massive picture, like instead of your glass. Let's see, throwing items. They playfully throw things at you. Horse races. Children are sometimes asked to grab stick horses and race around the restaurant. Sometimes they dump massive piles of straw on you. If you wear white, they'll make you wear a bib.

I really want to go. I want to go. That would be fun to work at too.

Barry Conrad
I reckon too, the ships would probably go by quickly because you have to do all these antiques, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember thinking like, when I would go to Disney World, if I had to work at a ride, I would want to work at Haunted Mansion for two reasons. One, you're inside the whole time and it's cold. Two, they don't smile or anything. It would be the perfect job where you don't have to worry about being in a good mood because they're all like deadpan.

You could be like sleep deprived and totally be on point. In character, that's so funny. Yeah, so okay. Shall we look at the menu? Oh, and sorry. So listeners, friends, the purpose of this part of the show is when we have our proverbial breaking of the fast because the benefits of fasting are not just from fasting, they're also from what you eat as well. So we like to celebrate the role of eating in this part of the show and feature fun restaurants. So Whispering Cane and I will see you next week.

Barry Conrad
diving into the menu here, going dinner menu, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, any starters for you?

Barry Conrad
You know what, this sounds really typical, but I love nachos. The burnt ends nachos sound really good.

It's topped with beef brisket, barbecue pulled pork, cheese sauce, maple chipotle, barbecue and fresh salsa. Let's go, I'd love that.

Melanie Avalon
awesome. I'm going to pass on the trailblazing starters. And then you can so like I said, so they have like entrees, like actual entrees, but then they have these skillets.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how big they are.

Melanie Avalon
the skillets yeah if you look at if you look on like okay i'm looking at pictures on yelp they look pretty big they're bottomless

Barry Conrad
That's incredible.

Melanie Avalon
I'm pretty.

Barry Conrad
That's amazing. See, that reason is enough for me to go, right? For both of us.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm looking at pictures. They have a restroom pass. Are you gonna get a skillet?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, heck yeah. I'm going to do the one that's jumping out of me.

Well, two are the pig, which is braised pork belly, barbecued pork ribs, slur smoked pulled pork, quote unquote, piggy wings, western style sausage, smashed potatoes, which I love, buttered corn, sautéed green beans. And also I want to get now the land and sea skillet, which is house smoked salmon, citrus herb chicken, spicy plant-based sausage, charred portobello, barbecued cauliflower, roasted potatoes, roasted carrots, sautéed green beans. Just to start with those two, but there's more to come.

Melanie Avalon
I'm I wonder if they have like make your own skillet. Let me let me probably not okay.

I think I would get peace if you're getting the pig in the land in the sea. I think I would get this is actually really difficult. I think the the traditional skillet so we can get we can get all three skillets minus the plant-based one surprise because the traditional comes with oak smoked beef brisket pork ribs slow smoked pulled pork citrus herb chicken western style sausage smashed potatoes baked beans buttered corn on the cob sauteed green beans I you know what I might just ask them can they just like make me my own skillet and I literally just want I want on it I'm gonna make my own I want beef brisket pulled pork and citrus herb chicken and salmon I don't know if they would do that because I would be combining you know they probably would because they're all the same price so it's kind of like just swapping out it's really just swapping out like oh honestly I just want the traditional but I want to swap out the sausage for salmon that's what I want and I don't really want the sides but whatever you like

Barry Conrad
Like ribs, like you know, bones? You don't, do you?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they're so good. They're just really fatty, but they're really good. They're really good. Yeah, I'll eat any part of the animal, but yeah, they're so good.

Barry Conrad
Can you imagine? We probably spend so much of our time just on the all-you-care-to-enjoy-skillet situation.

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh. I don't even need dessert.

I just keep ordering. Skillet's. Yeah. Keep refilling. Yeah. Looks so good. And then for Entrezelle, you can order like, you know, salmon or steak, but why do that when you can get this, like, unlimited situation?

Barry Conrad
I agree. I reckon I'll just do the nachos and just skill it, skill it, skill it, skill it, skill it, and then a dessert.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I wonder if, okay, because the land in the sea is house smoked salmon. So it's not like cooked salmon, right? It's like smoked salmon.

I might see if I can, I don't know, I think for dessert, I'll get the cedar plank salmon. Are you gonna get dessert? Oh, I see something that I think you would want.

Barry Conrad
there's two things that I actually will definitely be getting and there are, you have two, yeah, the Whispering Canyon Pie O'Neill Chocolate Cake, which is chocolate mousse, raspberry sauce, milk chocolate twig, what is that? Milk chocolate twig and candied orange and then I love apple pie so much, any kind of apple pie and it's Granny Smith apple pie, a la mode, yum, so good.

Melanie Avalon
And you're now in like the location for apple pie. I feel like New York in the fall is like apple pie world, right? Am I wrong?

Barry Conrad
You know what? Thank you so much for letting me know that because now I'm making a note because I need to I need to make this happen

Melanie Avalon
Like New England is like apple pie orchard vibes, at least to me.

Barry Conrad
I just wrote that down.

Melanie Avalon
That has to happen. Actually, I have a song I'm going to send to you that talks about this.

It talks about that geography and apple pies. Is it Taylor Swift? It actually is not. She might have like, I think just played with Taylor maybe, or I think she might have opened for Taylor.

Barry Conrad
Lardan Delore? No. Actually, just hand it to me. I want to be surprised. I will.

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna find it. I gotta remember what it's called, but I'll find it. Okay. And then do you see a drink that you would like?

Barry Conrad
Okay, going down, down, down.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, they have moonshine lemonade. Oh, wow.

Barry Conrad
See, I don't, I don't love lemonade. Like usually it's just a bit too sweet and this is not that sweet and I would definitely try that.

So if it's, if it's not too sweet, I'll definitely go for the moonshine lemonade, which is all smoky moonshine with wild berry, blood orange, blackberry, strawberry or watermelon. I reckon I'll go for maybe the strawberry.

Melanie Avalon
You're not gonna get the mount in your margarita. Oh.

Barry Conrad
Ah, okay, first drink I'll do the munishan lemonade because it seems like it's a situation of the place and then mountain and margarita, dani leo blanco, tequila, contralicure, smoked hickory syrup, fresh lime juice and agave nectar. Yes, thank you, let's make that happen.

Melanie Avalon
You're welcome. And for me, the good thing about this, because this is not in the parks, it is at a resort, I could bring a bottle of wine to open.

If I had to get something from here though, like a glass, I think King of State, if I, I might like get a glass of the King of State Pinot Grigio because or Pinot Gris because it's from Oregon, I like a good, a nice Pinot Gris and it's organic. But like I said, I would probably bring a bottle of wine to open at the table.

Barry Conrad
Yum, what kind of wine do you think you'll bring?

Melanie Avalon
Something European and red. Although I've actually been trying a lot more random varietals from different places like Slovenia. I've been on a Slovenian wine kick recently.

Barry Conrad
Slovenia.

Melanie Avalon
What is this one like? Slovenia and then also, well, I guess it depends on the bridal, but I've just had a few good ones from there. And then I just discovered this type of wine. Let me wait. And I want to order more of it, but apparently it's, let me find it. So it's a, um, Oh, it's from Slovenia. Yeah, I really have been on a Slovenian kick. So it's a unique Slovenian blend called, I have no idea how you pronounce it, but it's like a blend that they have there called C V I C E K with like a weird little accent over the sea, but apparently it's a blend of, and it might, it might change, but like blower, Colner, Blau Frankish, well, Frankish is a Slovenian wine often, uh, Corral, Jovina and Welsh Riesling. But what's cool about it is like the one I have was only 9.5% alcohol, which is very low, but it's not sweet. It's like dry and tart. And I'm, I'm going to like stock up on it. Cause it's like very like light and like drinkable. I mean, it can be dangerous cause you, you just like keep drinking it, but it's like super low alcohol, but like I said, dry, which is weird.

Cause normally, like normally if it's really low alcohol, it's high in sugar because that means less sugar was converted into alcohol. Sounds good. Yeah. I need to order some more. Okay. Well, this has been so, so incredible friends, listeners. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. We love receiving your questions. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, join our Facebook group, I have biohackers. We ask for questions there where you can comment or you can just, you know, post in there, you can also email questions at I have podcast.com. You can follow us on Instagram. We are I have podcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go.

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for tuning in. Again, everyone, we appreciate you so much. We love answering your questions. We can't wait to talk to you next week. Talk to you then, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Talk to you then. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week. you

May 12

Clone of Stuff We Like

STUFF WE LIKE

Hi Friends! Here's a list to all the random stuff that comes up on the podcast that we talk about liking/loving/needing/etc. Have fun!

OUR BOOKS

What When Wine: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine (Melanie Avalon)

Is it possible to eat well, drink wine, and still lose weight? Melanie Avalon is living proof that, heck yeah, it's not only possible, it's unbelievably simple and straightforward. It's all about the what (mostly paleo, but she's not a monster about it), the when (believe it or not, brief fasting can mean freedom rather than restriction), and the wine (red wine can be a secret bullet for weight loss - who knew?). It's a combination that Avalon discovered after years of self-experimentation and intense research on the mechanics of body fat regulation.
In What When Wine, Avalon shares her journey to a healthier lifestyle, with the tips and tricks she learned along the way, as well as a jump-start plan including 50 delicious paleo-friendly, gluten-free recipes by chef Ariane Resnick.

PLEASE NOTE: When you purchase the Audible title, the accompanying PDF will be available in your Audible Library along with the audio.

Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight (Vanessa Spina)

A complete guide to the ketogenic diet! Vanessa breaks down the science behind the keto diet into an easy-to-digest, step-by-step guide to understanding and following a keto lifestyle. Her approach to keto is based on using real, whole foods to restore the body to optimal health while enjoying the taste and flavor of foods like never before. Stacked with all the facts people need to know to improve their health, detox, and lose weight with ease, Keto Essentials also includes 100+ delicious and simple keto recipes, as well as a seven-day meal plan to get people started on the ketogenic way of life.

FASTING DEVICES

Nutrisense continuous glucose monitor

Get your own personal continuous glucose monitor (CGM) to see how your blood sugar responds 24/7 to your food, fasting, and exercise! The nutrisense CGM program helps you interpret the data and take charge of your metabolic health!

Visit nutrisense.com/ifpodcast and use code ifpodcast to save $30 and get 1 month of free nutritionist support!

Tone Ketone Breath Analyzer

Introducing the brand new second generation tone device! If you practice Regular IF, TRE, Prolonged Fasting And Or Low Carb/Keto, Your Body Makes A Metabolic Switch To Primarily Burning Fat For Fuel! Being Metabolically Flexible Means You Can Readily Tap Into Stored Fat For Energy. With The Tone Device You Simply Breathe Into The Device When Fasting And Receive An Instant Reading On Your Breath Ketones. You May Test An Unlimited Amount Of Times, With One Investment In A Tone.

LUMEN (Measure Carb Vs. Fat Burning!)

Measure your fat or carb burning by the CO2 ratio in your breath! This technology wasn’t easily available to the public until now, with the breath-analyzing LUMEN device!

Get $100 off with the code IFpodcast at lumen.me

KETO-MOJO

This ketone blood meter provides the most accurate measuring of your ketones and blood glucose!

AVALONX

SERRAPEPTASE

Serrapeptase is a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silk worm. When taken in the fasted state, it enters the bloodstream and breaks down unwanted proteins, fibrous tissue buildups, and overgrowths. It can work wonders for clearing mucous and sinuses, breaking down fibroids and adhesions, easing pain and inflammation, and so much more! AvalonX supplements are free of toxic fillers and common allergens (including wheat, rice, gluten, dairy, shellfish, nuts, soy, eggs, and yeast), tested to be free of heavy metals and mold, and triple tested for purity and potency.

Get 10% Off with the code MelanieAvalon, and 20% off when you text AvalonX to 877-861-8318!

Berberine 500

This natural, potent anti-inflammatory plant alkaloid reduces blood sugar and blood lipids, aids weight loss, supports a healthy body composition, stimulates AMPK and autophagy, benefits gut bacteria and GI health, and more!

Get 10% Off with the code MelanieAvalon, and 20% off when you text AvalonX to 877-861-8318!

Magnesium 8

Get Melanie's broad spectrum complex featuring 8 forms of magnesium, to support stress, muscle recovery, cardiovascular health, GI motility, blood sugar control, mood, sleep, and more! Tested for purity & potency, No toxic fillers, Glass bottle.

Get 10% Off with the code MelanieAvalon, and 20% off when you text AvalonX to 877-861-8318!

Magnesium Nightcap

Melanie’s Magnesium Nightcap features magnesium threonate, the only type of magnesium shown to cross the blood brain barrier, to support sleep, stress, memory, and mood! AvalonX Supplements Are Free Of Toxic Fillers And Common Allergens (Including Wheat, Rice, Gluten, Dairy, Shellfish, Nuts, Soy, Eggs, And Yeast), Tested To Be Free Of Heavy Metals And Mold, And Triple Tested For Purity And Potency.

Get 10% off with the code melanieavalon, and 20% off when you text avalonx to 877-861-8318!

Spirulina

Coming soon!

TONE PROTEIN

Get on the exclusive vip list at http://toneprotein.com for discounts!

SUPPLEMENTS/MEDICATIONS

HEALTHSPAN

Want easy affordable access to longevity medications and supplements? han is my go to recommendation for effortless, doctor-guided access prescriptions, supplements, and advanced lab work! They offer treatments and protocols that many biohackers (including myself) are looking for, including rapamycin, metformin, methylene blue, and low dose naltrexone. They also have hormone support programs with bioidentical estrogen, progesterone, and topical testosterone, plus personalized GLP 1 medication protocols! You get clinician oversight and ongoing support, while still keeping the process streamlined and affordable.

Get 10% off with code Melanie10 at ifpodcast.com/healthspan

BIOLONGETIVITY (PEPTIDES)

Ever since interviewing Jay Campbell, Melanie has been blown away by the power of peptides - but finding a reliable source can be tricky. Thankfully, she trusts Jay’s BioLongevity Labs as her go-to for research-grade peptides and bioregulators that support healing and longevity at the cellular level. Depending on the formula, these peptides are designed for everything from promoting tissue repair, mitochondrial health, and hormonal balance, to blasting through stubborn fat, supporting muscle growth, and even supercharging libido!

Get 15% off with code melanieavalon at biolongevitylabs.com.

WONDERFEEL (NMN)

Wonderfeel makes Melanie's go-to recommended NMN supplement for NAD support! NAD is a critical coenzyme involved in cellular energy production, DNA repair, mitochondrial function, and overall metabolic health, and levels naturally decline as we age. Supporting NAD has been linked to improved energy, healthy aging, cognitive support, and long-term cellular resilience. Melanie loves Wonderfeel’s scientific credibility, including their impressive board of directors with experts like Dr. Andrew Salzman from Harvard. This is a daily essential for anyone serious about ultimate longevity and vibrant aging.

Get 15% off a subscription and a $20 credit on your next subscription order with code MelanieAvalon at melanieavalon.com/wonderfeel .

FMF (Functional Medicine Formulations by Dr. Michael Ruscio.)

Melanie has been following Dr. Ruscio for years - he’s her go-to resource for solving digestion issues and optimizing gut health! She loves and trusts his supplements, which are formulated with clinically studied ingredients designed to reduce gut inflammation, heal the intestinal lining, and restore microbial balance. Backed by research and created with purity in mind, Dr. Ruscio’s formulas help the body recover and maintain optimal wellness naturally. Need probiotics or gut support? Dr. Ruscio is Melanie’s guy!

Get 10% off with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/fmf!

LMNT electrolytes

For fasting or low-carb diets, electrolytes are key for relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness. With no sugar, artificial ingredients, coloring, and only 2 grams of carbs per packet, try LMNT for complete a.nd total hydration.

For a limited time go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any purchase!

IONLAYER NAD+

Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (AKA: NAD+) is a true powerhouse when it comes to optimizing our health! This remarkable molecule plays a key part in many cellular processes, including energy production and DNA repair. NAD+ levels are depleted with things like stress, aging, alcohol, lack of sleep, and of course, too much partying . By supporting and maintaining healthy NAD levels, we can potentially unlock a multitude of benefits for our well-being. From increased energy and improved cognitive function to better metabolic health and even potential longevity, NAD supplementation can make a significant difference in how you feel and age. IonLayer provides easy, affordable access to NAD+ patches!! Melanie thinks this is the easiest, most affordable, optimal way to boost your NAD+ levels!

Get $100 off with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/ionlayer!

TIMELINE NUTRITION

Urolithin A is a potent longevity compound which supports our cells' mitochondria. It’s created by our gut bacteria - yet many of us don’t have the bacteria to make it! Timeline Nutrition is redefining cellular energy with Mitopure®, the first clinically tested form of Urolithin A - a powerful postbiotic shown to support mitochondrial health, muscle strength, and healthy aging. Their clinical studies even show it increases muscle strength without any changes in exercise! I’ve noticed such a difference in my energy and sleep since taking Mitopure, and I plan to take it every day indefinitely - it’s that powerful!

Get 10% off your order of Mitopure with code ifpodcast at timeline.com/ifpodcast.

MIMIO

Mimio is a groundbreaking daily supplement that creates the blood biomarkers of fasting, without fasting! Developed by leading researchers in cellular health, Mimio targets the same biochemical pathways activated during fasting (think AMPK activation, autophagy, and sirtuin support), all in a simple daily capsule. Use it to enhance your fast as well! If you’re into biohacking, longevity, or just feeling and performing your best, this one’s a game changer!

Get 20% off with code melanieavalon at mimiohealth.com.

CBD (FEALS)

Feals makes CBD oil which satisfies all of Melanie's stringent criteria: it's premium, full spectrum, organic, tested, pure CBD in MCT oil! It's delivered directly to your doorstep. CBD supports the body's natural cannabinoid system and can address an array of issues, from sleep to stress to chronic pain, and more!

Go to feals.com/ifpodcast to become a member and get 50% off your first order, with free shipping!

ZBIOTICS

When it comes to enjoying a glass of wine or a night out, ZBiotics has become one of Melanie's go-to solutions. ZBiotics' scientifically engineered probiotic is designed to help the body break down acetaldehyde, a byproduct of alcohol that often leads to unpleasant mornings. Melanie loves how simple it is to use—just drink one before consuming alcohol—and how much better she feels the next day. With its non-GMO formula and rigorous scientific backing, ZBiotics aligns perfectly with her commitment to promoting cutting-edge, effective health solutions.

Get 10% off with code MELANIEAVALON at melanieavalon.com/zbiotics

ATRANTIL

Atrantil can help you beat IBS and SIBO, particularly for those who are methane dominant. It contains natural herb compounds which work syngeristically to control bacteria in the small intestine, while also providing antioxidant and other GI benefits. You can use It to reduce (or even eliminate!) gas, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea, and also to support digestive health in general!

Use the link lovemytummy.com/ifp with the code IFP, to get 10% off your purchase!

AURO GLUTATHIONE

This transfermeal glutathione is the only way to get supplemental glutathione into your cells! Melanie uses it every night!

Go to melanieavalon.com/auro with coupon code melanieavalon10 for 10% off site wide!

SEED

Melanie loves Seed's DS-01 Daily Synbiotic, a 2-in-1 prebiotic and probiotic formulated to support gut health, skin health, and overall well-being. With clinically and scientifically studied strains, Seed's Daily Synbiotic promotes digestive health, boosts immune function, and enhances your body's nutrient absorption. Studies have shown that Seed's DS-01 Daily Synbiotic boosts folate production and may help to reduce wrinkles. Seed uses a capsule-in-capsule delivery system, technology that allows for an extra barrier to oxygen and moisture, protecting against stomach acid, enzymes and bile salts during digestion. Seed also has a commitment to sustainability and employs sustainable shipping practices.

Get 25% off your first month of DS-01® using code 25IFPODCAST at seed.com/ifpodcast.

Bioptimizers Probiotic Breakthrough

Bioptimizers' Probiotic Breakthrough, features the patented P3OM strain! Probiotic Breakthrough is a single-strain, stress-hardened probiotic designed to survive stomach acid and support gut health. It’s proteolytic, helping break down protein and improve overall nutrient absorption, while promoting a balanced gut microbiota. This plant-based, vegan-friendly, and travel-ready supplement multiplies in the gut for powerful effects without refrigeration.

Get 26% off with code IFPODCAST15 at ⁠bioptimizers.com/ifpodcast.

STEMREGEN

The closest thing we have to a foundation of youth, just may be stem cells! While stem cell injections can be very cost-prohibitive, you can boost your own endogenous stem cell production, with Stemregen! Stemregen is designed to naturally enhance your body’s own stem cell production, which is vital for repair, recovery, and longevity, and which help to rejuvenate tissues and support optimal health. Stemregen is formulated with clinically backed ingredients, including marine plant extracts and other compounds, that have been shown to support the release of your body’s own stem cells.

Get 15% with code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/stemregen

ACTIVATION

Activation products have become a staple in Melanie Avalon’s wellness routine! Known for their premium-quality ingredients and targeted benefits, Activation's array of products offers everything from nutrient-packed oils to detox-supporting elixirs. Whether it’s boosting energy, enhancing focus, or promoting overall health, Melanie trusts Activation for next-level support.

Get 20% off with code MelanieAvalon at melanieavalon.com/activation

DRINKS

DANGER COFFEE

This is Melanie's favorite coffee! Danger Coffee is clean, mold-free, remineralized coffee created by legendary biohacker Dave Asprey, and engineered to fuel your dangerous side!

Get 10% off with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/dangercoffee!

DRY FARM WINES

Natural, organic, low alcohol, low sugar wines, Paleo and Keto friendly!

Go to dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast to get a bottle for a penny!

HARD KETONES

Want all the buzz, none of the side effects? Hard Ketones offer a modern alternative to traditional alcoholic beverages, featuring R-1,3-butanediol - a naturally occurring ketone that delivers a smooth, functional buzz without the sugar, carbs, or typical hangover. Unlike standard alcohol, which can spike blood sugar, disrupt sleep, and leave you feeling foggy, Hard Ketones support a balanced, biohacker-friendly experience. Designed to complement low-carb, ketogenic, and health-focused lifestyles, Hard Ketones provide a cleaner, smarter way to enjoy social occasions - whether you're at a party, winding down, or just looking for a better way to relax!

Get free shipping on your order at melanieavalon.com/hardketones.

MEAL/FOOD SHIPMENTS & SERVICES

Butcher Box

Grass-fed beef, organic chicken, heritage pork, wild-caught seafood, nutrient-rich, raised sustainably the way nature intended, and shipped straight to your door!

Go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast for the latest incredible offer!

BEAUTY AND THE BROTH

Support your health with delicious USDA organic. It's shelf-stable with no preservatives and no salt added. Choose grass-fed, grass-finished beef, or free-range, antibiotic and hormone-free chicken, or their organic vegan mushroom broth concentrate! The concentrated packets are 8x stronger than any cup of broth: simply reconstitute with 8 ounces of hot water. They’re convenient to take anywhere on the go, especially during travel!

Get 15% off with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/broth!

GREEN CHEF

Get easy, affordable meals made with organic ingredients for a variety of lifestyles - including Paleo, Keto, Vegan, and Vegetarian - shipped straight to your home!

Go to greenchef.com/ifpodcast and use code ifpodcast to get $5.99 per meal plus FREE shipping on your first box!

PREP DISH

Effortless, healthy meal prep in just a few hours! Struggling to plan meals? Prep Dish is a total game-changer for stress-free, healthy eating, allowing you to prep your entire week's meals in just a few hours! They send you easy, done-for-you grocery and recipe lists designed by a culinary dietitian, so you can prep everything in advance—saving time, money, and brainpower! Whether you’re keto, gluten-free, Paleo, or just want nourishing meals without the hassle, Prep Dish makes it easy and effortless. Try their Superfast mealsto save even more time, and you can even integrate with InstaCart for seamless shopping!

Get a 2-week FREE trial at prepdish.com/melanieavalon

Other Foods

THE BETTER FISH

Melanie's favorite fish!! better fish utilizes sustainable practices to raise delicious barramundi fish with fantastic omega-3 levels, tested to be free of mercury and other toxins! They raise their fish responsibly, paying the utmost care to animal health, employee safety, and environmental sustainability, flash freezing their fish at peak freshness! Their barramundi are easy to cook, and even kids love the mild and buttery taste! Check out the thebetterfish.com for more information, and specifically www.thebetterfish.com/why-barramundi for all the awesome benefits!

Go To better.fish/IF2020 To Get A $2 Off Coupon!

MAUI NUI VENISON

Maui Nui offers 100% delicious, wild-harvested Axis deer. These deer are free-roaming and stress-free, making the cuts incredibly high-quality, nutrient-rich, and free of hormones and antibiotics. They’re a great source of lean protein - and they seriously taste delicious! Maui Nui’s mission is to help restore Maui’s ecosystem by responsibly managing the overpopulated Axis deer that are damaging the island’s land.

Head to mauinuivenison.com/ifpodcast to secure your access to select venison cuts.

IMMORTAL PROVISIONS

Olive oil boosts an array of longevity benefits, including for cardiovascular health, cognitive health, and anti-inflammatory support. And yet, so many olive oils on the market are cheap, oxidized, and/or may not even contain what they say on the label! It’s shocking! That’s why I love Immortal Provisions - their olive oil is cold-pressed, ultra-low acidity, and from a single verified varietal. It’s packed with polyphenols - potent plant compounds linked to everything from reduced inflammation to cellular resilience. This is olive oil you can trust, and you will taste and feel the difference!

Get 20% off with code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/immortal.

Manukora

Support optimal immune and digestive health with Manukora. Delicious, raw, sustainable, traceable Manuka honey from New Zealand. Manukora Superpower Honey is high in antioxidants, prebiotics, and the natural antibacterial MGO compound.

Go to Manukora.Com/Ifpodcast for a FREE pack of honey sticks with your order!

Food Sense Guide

Get Melanie's app at melanieavalon.com/foodsenseguide to tackle your food sensitivities! Food Sense includes a searchable catalogue of 300+ foods, revealing their gluten, FODMAP, lectin, histamine, amine, glutamate, oxalate, salicylate, sulfite, and thiol status. Food Sense also includes compound overviews, reactions to look for, lists of foods high and low in them, the ability to create your own personal lists, and more!

MEDICAL TESTING

SEQUENCING

I’ve done a lot of DNA testing, and Sequencing truly stands out. They provide full genome sequencing, not just fragments like most consumer kits. You get comprehensive insights into longevity, nutrition, fitness, carrier status, ancestry, and more - with constantly updated reports as science evolves. It’s like having a personalized health blueprint in your pocket - one that actually grows with you!

Get 20% off at melanieavalon.com/sequencing.

LIFEDNA

LifeDNA is a fantastic tool for turning genetic data into actionable wellness insights! Get personalized reports on everything from optimal nutrition and exercise to how your body handles caffeine, vitamins, and even skincare. It’s like having a cheat sheet for biohacking your own biology.

Get a discount at melanieavalon.com/lifedna.

WILD HEALTH

Wild Health takes biohacking to the next level with blood and DNA testing, delivering personalized health through precision medicine tailored to your genetics, lifestyle, and goals. Wild Health’s deep-dive testing and AI-driven analysis unlock next-level insights into nutrition, fitness, sleep, longevity, and beyond. It’s like having a data-driven roadmap to your healthiest, most optimized self!

Get 20% off with code melanieavalon at wildhealth.com.

ELITE PERSONALIZED MEDICINE

EPM provides in person and virtual consults with an expertise in functional medicine. They specialize in prevention of disease, early diagnosis, anti-aging (aging well) and maintaining and achieving optimal health. EPM conducts an extensive lab panel before your visit, with a full sex hormone panel, FULL thyroid panel, inflammatory markers, insulin resistance and blood sugar markers, cardiovascular risk, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies such as magnesium and Vitamin D. After the labs, EPM conducts a 1 hour one on one visit with the patient. (This is very different from the 5-7 minutes you get with your primary care provider.) In this one-hour visit, EPM will go over your medical health history, symptom profile, full review of lab work, and provide a customized treatment plan, consisting of diet and lifestyle recommendations, nutritional/supplement recommendations based off of lab results, natural medications, and potentially last resort prescription medications. Also, they are SUPER affordable!

Visit EPMlife.com to get $100 of when you mention melanie sent you!

INSIDE TRACKER

Get the blood and DNA tests you need to be testing, personalized dietary recommendations, an online portal to analyze your bloodwork, find out your true "inner age," and more!

Go To insidetracker.com/ifpodcast For 20% Off All Tests Sitewide!

TRUDIAGNOSTIC

TruDiagnostic is Melanie’s go-to biological age test, using three advanced epigenetic analyses to deliver deep, science-backed insights: OMICmAge in collaboration with Harvard, DunedinPACE in collaboration with Duke and Columbia, and SYMPHONYAge from Yale. Whether you're optimizing your health, biohacking, or just curious about how you're aging, knowing your biological age is a game-changer. Their TruAge test analyzes over 900,000 DNA methylation markers to assess aging speed and cellular health across key organ systems. You’ll learn how your lifestyle is actually affecting how you are aging NOW!

Get 10% off at melanieavalon.com/trudiagnostic

AGERATE

AgeRate is an at-home health test that detects special markers in your blood to get an accurate snapshot of your current health. It provides you with specific scores for your immune system, metabolism, brain functioning, and 7 other key aspects of your health. And the the AgeRate App gives you personalized recommendations and helps you build daily habits to elevate your health and boost your longevity. Watch your scores improve over time and have confidence you’re doing everything you can to live a long and healthy life!

Get 20% off with code MELANIEAVALON at melanieavalon.com/agerate

Victus 88

The most accurate and comprehensive at-home food sensitivity test available! Victus88 Dietary Antigen Test is the ONLY proprietary at-home food allergy/sensitivity test that shows you to which foods you are ACTUALLY sensitive, to what extent, and if you are immune tolerant! Victus88 combines IgE, IgG, IgG4, and complement (C3d) reactions to 88 different food antigens! It is the ONLY test that tells you if you have developed immune tolerance to lgE (most tests only show allergic reactions, not when you have adapted to the antigen), and the ONLY test that shows if your IGG response is being amplified by C3d. It is the ONLY test that totals all your reactions and then ranks each food from high to low in an easy-to-interpret patient-and-provider-friendly report, and that provides multiple elimination diet choices so you and your doctor can match your needs from more symptomatic to less symptomatic!

Get $55 off Victus88 testing with the code melanieavalon at http://melanieavalon.com/victus88

BEAUTYCOUNTER SKIN CARE

Keep your fast clean inside and out with safe skincare!

Shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter and use the code cleanforall20 for 20% off, plus something magical might happen after your first order!

CRUNCHI SKIN CARE

Crunchi's clean, high-end makeup and skin care products are made with non-toxic ingredients, and each ingredient undergoes a 30-step screening criteria for safety. All products are gluten-free and vegan (except for the Hydrogloss® Lip Oil which contains organic beeswax from humanely sourced, regenerative beekeeping). All products are Leaping Bunny certified cruelty-free, with no animal testing. Crunchi uses sustainable and environmentally-conscious packaging, with NO PLASTIC for primary packaging. When necessary for secondary components like caps and pumps, Crunchi uses BPA/BPS & phthalate-free, recyclable plastic.

Use code Advocate10 to get 10% off at melanieavalon.com/crunchi.

LIGHT THERAPTY

KINEON

Red light therapy is great for reducing joint pain and inflammation, healing damaged tissues, and so much more! Kineon provides clinical level treatments incorporating both LED and laser red light from the comfort of your home! Kineon's MOVE+ Pro red light therapy device is a safe, non-invasive, enhanced light therapy device that is proven to help relieve joint pain, reduce inflammation, and stimulate healing of damaged tissues. It comes with a strap to attach to joints, and detachable units for targeted treatment!

Get 10% off with the code MAVALON at melanieavalon.com/kineondevice!

IRESTORE HAIR GROWTH SYSTEM

Yes, red light for your scalp is a thing, and it’s backed by science! iRestore uses low-level laser therapy (LLLT) to stimulate hair follicles and encourage regrowth. This FDA-cleared device targets the root of hair thinning (literally), increasing cellular energy (ATP production!) in the scalp and potentially shifting follicles back into the growth phase. This is a non-invasive, consistency-is-key approach that may support healthier, fuller hair over time.

Get a discount with code ifpodcast at irestore.com/ifpodcast.

SOLShine Full Spectrum Light

Modern humans, in developed nations, do not spend enough time in natural, ‘full-spectrum’ sunlight that our genes are programmed to respond to. Natural light enhances immunity while too much time indoors under ‘limited-spectrum’ light tends to compromise immunity. Unlike common SAD lights and conventional full-spectrum lights, SOL's light systems are powered by — SOLshine Photo Nutrition™ and includes both the ‘fullest’ spectrum visible as well as essential, invisible near infrared light (NIR) and a trace of ultra violet light (UV). Use these devices to fix your circadian rhythm and properly stimulate your brain's SCN in a manner like that of the natural spectral diet that’s essential for optimum metabolism function.

Get 10% off with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/solshine!

Joovv Red & NIR Light

Like intermittent fasting, red light therapy can benefit the body on so many levels! It literally works on the mitochondrial level to help your cells generate more energy! Red light can help you burn fat (including targeted fat burning and stubborn fat!), contour your body, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, produce collagen for epic skin, support muscle recovery, reduce joint pain and inflammation, combat fatigue, help you sleep better, improve mood, and so much more!! These devices are literally life-changing!!

Go to melanieavalon.com/joovv and use the code melanieavalon for $50 off!

Tone lux

Vanessa Spinas red light therapy devices are the best of the best! Vanessa specifically chose the wave lengths for maximum health benefits, and they come in adorable colors! You can also get her face mask, for the ultimate in anti-aging, radiant skin health!

Get a discount with the code melanieavalon at ketogenicgirl.com!

CLEAN AIR / WATER/ HOME

Branch Basics

Branch Basics makes human-safe cleaning products designed to reduce toxic exposure in the home, with plant- and mineral-based, fragrance-free formulas that are MADE SAFE® certified and screened against thousands of known and suspected harmful chemicals. Their all-in-one Concentrate can be mixed with water to create cleaners for everything from the kitchen and bathroom to laundry and windows, making it a simple way to clean while reducing everyday exposure to hormone-disrupting chemicals. Branch Basics is also now available at Target, Amazon, and BranchBasics.com.

Get 15% off the Premium Starter Kit with code ifpodcast at branchbasics.com/ifpodcast.

Neoplants

Meet the ultimate houseplant UPGRADE! Neoplants are bioengineered to not only look gorgeous but to work like air-purifying superheroes - specifically designed to clean indoor air of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) like formaldehyde and benzene (yes, the stuff standard air purifiers don’t always catch). Think of them as your green, living air filter - powered by science, rooted in nature. It’s like having a tiny forest doing big detox magic in your home!

Get 10% off with code melanieavalon at neoplants.com.

AirDoctor

Clean your air of pollutants, viruses, dust, and other toxins (including 99.97% of covid) at an incredible price!

Shop at airdoctorpro.com with coupon code ifpodcast for up to 39% off or up to $300 off all airdoctor units!

Litewater Scientific

Melanie just loves the pure taste of Litewater. Litewater is the most deuterium depleted water that exists. A lower concentration of deuterium compared to all other drinking water makes it the purest water in the world. Benefits of deuterium depleted water include amplifying cellular energy, protecting mitochondria, boosting geroprotection, optimizing metabolism, enhancing metabolic hydration, increasing longevity and vitality, and more!

Get 10% off with code MelanieAvalon at melanieavalon.com/lite

AQUENE SPRINGS

Melanie’s favorite water!! Aquene Springs' alkaline spring water is naturally high in silica and deuterium depleted! It is sourced from a protected aquifer that is pure, clean, and absolutely delicious! Aquene Springs’ commitment to sustainability preserves the natural ecosystem around their spring. The water is bottled directly at the source to ensure its pristine quality with eco-friendly practices. The naturally occurring minerals (particularly silica) in the water make it not only hydrating but also incredibly nourishing for the body. It’s like drinking straight from nature itself!

Get 10% off with code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/aquene

AvalonX Powered by SYB

Stay up to date with all the news on the Melanie's upcoming EMF line, and get the launch specials exclusively at http://melanieavalon.com/emfemaillist!

Shield Your Body

Protect yourself from the dangers of EMFs, which are linked to myriad health issues including headaches, anxiety, suicide and depression, nausea, fatigue, loss of libido, and cancer.

Shop at melanieavalon.com/syb with the code melanieavalon for 10% off!

SLEEP

LEESA MATTRESS

Leesa creates beautifully crafted mattresses designed for how you actually sleep, with premium materials that deliver full-body support and seriously restorative rest from night one. Melanie has the Natural Hybrid Mattress, thoughtfully crafted for cleaner, safer sleep with natural latex, organic cotton, and breathable wool for a low-toxin sleep environment you can feel good about. Every Leesa mattress is GREENGUARD Gold certified after rigorous testing for over 360 VOCs, and the foams are CertiPUR-US® certified, meaning they’re made without ozone depleters, PBDE flame retardants, heavy metals, formaldehyde, and certain phthalates, with low emissions for better indoor air quality.

Get 20-30% off select mattresses PLUS an extra $350 off with code IFPODCAST at Leesa.com

LUNASOL SLEEP

Did you know mouth breathing can contribute to a host of health issues: including dry mouth, snoring, bad breath, poor sleep quality, fatigue, and even anxiety and focus problems? Proper nasal breathing is essential for optimal oxygen flow, nervous system regulation, and deep, restorative sleep.That’s why I love Lunasol Mouth Tape, available in a variety of comfortable sizes, colors, and levels of coverage to suit your unique needs. Whether you’re a first-time mouth taper or a seasoned pro, Lunasol makes it easy to breathe better and sleep deeper. Wake up refreshed, recharged, and ready to thrive—because it all starts with a good night’s sleep.

Get 15% off with code MelanieAvalon at melanieavalon.com/lunasol.

Sleep REMEDY

This is the ultimate sleep supplement, which Melanie cannot recommend enough! It was developed by Dr. Kirk Parlsey after years of research and experimentation to naturally restore sleep to the sleep-deprived, insomniac Navy Seals. Rather than knocking you out with drugs, this simply provides the necessary neurotransmitters and nutrients in the perfect amounts to naturally support your body's sleep process.

Use the code MELANIEAVALON for 10% off at melanieavalon.com/sleepremedy.

SLEEPME CHILIPAD COOLING MATTRESS

Use this pad to perfectly regulate your sleep temperature! Get rid of shivers, night sweats, everything!

Get 20% off at melanieavalon.com/chilisleep

PET STUFF

YUMMERS

Co-founded by antoni porowski and jonathan van ness, yummers provides premium-quality, tasty, healthy “gourmet” and “functional" mix-ins to support the utmost health of your pet! Yummers uses premium-grade animal proteins, real fruits and veggies, and each ingredient is processed separately from one another to maximize flavor and nutritional value.

Get 20% Off sitewide and a free sample of yummers new dog food at yummerspets.com/ifpodcast with the code ifpodcast20!

AQUATRU

AquaTru's 4-stage reverse osmosis purification process is the same technology used by all major water bottle brands, and removes 15x more contaminants than ordinary pitcher filters! One set of AquaTru filters purifies the equivalent of 4,500 bottles of water, with no plastic!

Get 20% Off with the code IFPODCAST at aquatru.com!

OTHER THINGS WE LOVE

Hyperlight

Hyperlight goes way beyond typical blue light blockers and are a daily essential for modern life! Not only do they help regulate circadian rhythm and reduce eye strain and fatigue, they actually transform harmful junk light from screens and artificial lighting into beneficial light. Hyperlight Optics uses patented Swiss nanophotonic technology with Fullerene C60, which acts as a quantum light transformer. This biocompatible light supports physiological balance by optimally energizing biological structures at the cellular level. They come in myriad designs, and also look SUPER cool. (Prepare yourself for people to ask you where you got your glasses. )

Get 10% off with code Melanie10X at ifpodcast.com/hyperlight

LOLA BLANKETS

Lola makes the most luxurious, unbelievably soft blankets that instantly make any space feel elevated, cozy, and indulgent. With a signature 4-way stretch, they’re machine washable and designed to stay flawless with no shedding or pilling, making them a go-to gift people fall in love with the moment they feel it. Inspired by the founders’ personal experience with their mother’s breast cancer journey, Lola is rooted in comfort, care, and creating something truly meaningful. And they come in 50+ colors!

Get 40% off select Lola Blankets products with code ifpodcast at lolablankets.com

X3 ELITE HOME GYM BAR

X3 Bar is a revolutionary strength training system that builds serious muscle in just minutes per week using powerful variable resistance. Unlike traditional weights that overload joints and underload muscles, X3 delivers resistance that matches your body’s natural strength curve, pushing muscles to true fatigue safely and efficiently. With over 600 pounds of available force, it delivers intense full body workouts with a much lower risk of injury than conventional lifting. It is one of the most effective and time efficient ways I have ever seen to build muscle and strength.

Get $50 off with code Save50 at melanieavalon.com/x3

Morley Robbin’s RCP Root Cause Protocol Institute

The RCP Institute is an in-depth 16-week online program created by Morley Robbins, the brilliant mind behind Cure Your Fatigue and one of my most popular podcast guests. His work dives deep into iron dysregulation, copper balance, and mineral repletion, offering a truly transformative approach to energy and wellness. The course combines live virtual classes, pre-recorded modules, small-group tutorials, quizzes, and real case studies so you can fully integrate the material and actually apply it. You can join entirely online from anywhere. Graduates become certified RCP Consultants with the option to be listed in the RCP directory, though many people take it simply for their own health and knowledge. It’s a deeply enriching and empowering program for anyone wanting to understand the body at a root-cause level.

Get $100 off with code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/rcp

MELANIE'S DIY BREATH SPRAY!

Want the ultimate non-toxic, epic breath spray? Just add a few drops of organic, food-grade peppermint oil to one of these adorable rainbow glass bottles, fill with water, and spritz anytime for instantly fresh breath! I swear by this. I truly use it every single time I go out - no exceptions!

FEVER APP

Have you ever seen Melanie’s posts about Candlelight Concerts? She loves the Fever App for finding the coolest, most unique local events to attend! The Fever App curates personalized recommendations for concerts, pop-ups, and one-of-a-kind experiences right in your city. (We’re talking SUPER unique—think immersive bubble experiences, a Dracula cabaret, and those unforgettable Candlelight Concerts: stunning orchestral productions of popular music in extraordinary venues illuminated by hundreds of candles. And they’re happening all the time in so many cities!) With instant mobile booking and exclusive experiences in 200+ cities, the Fever App is Melanie’s shortcut to unforgettable plans. She’s obsessed!

Get $8 off at melanieavalon.com/fever.

GOTCHIES

Gotchies are organic underwear designed for the most sensitive part of your body - with zero toxins, total comfort, and serious breathability. Made from GOTS- and OEKO-TEX-certified organic cotton, they’re soft, supportive, and free from endocrine-disrupting chemicals often found in conventional fabrics. Whether you're into clean living, sustainability, or simply want underwear that respects your skin, Gotchies delivers.

Get 10% off with code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/gotchies.

SOMIA HEAL PROGRAM

Somia is a revolutionary nervous system-based approach to mental and emotional wellness. Unlike traditional therapy that focuses on talking things out, Somia integrates the latest science of the nervous system to help you not just understand your challenges - but actually feel different. (Think: deep calm, clarity, and that grounded sense of finally being okay.) The HEAL program is their signature 6-week guided, science-backed journey. Whether you're feeling anxious, overwhelmed, stuck, or just curious to explore your inner world on a deeper level, this could be the missing link you've been looking for.

Get 50% off the HEAL program at melanieavalon.com/somia.

DEFEAT YOUR CRAVINGS (FREE DOWNLOAD!)

Say goodbye to cravings, and even binge eating! A powerful resource by my dear friend, psychologist Glenn Livingston, PhD, “Defeat Your Cravings” helps you actually stop binging and emotional eating with a quick, easy, effective mindset hack. While childhood trauma and emotional history can certainly lead to binging and food cravings, you don’t have to fix all of that to fix you. The book offers a unique, practical approach to identifying and overcoming cravings, with actionable strategies that truly work. Grounded in psychology and real-world experience, it’s one of the most effective tools I’ve found for creating food freedom. It is my go-to resource for this.

Download Defeat Your Cravings for FREE at ifpodcast.com/cravings.

HEYBAMBOO TOILET PAPER

HeyBamboo toilet paper is a complete game changer for our planet. Did you know traditional TP is responsible for cutting down about 27,000 trees a day. Thankfully, HeyBamboo is made from naturally pesticide-free bamboo that grows like crazy (up to three feet a day!) and cleans our air by processing more CO₂. Plus, every part of it is designed with the earth in mind: made from sustainably sourced bamboo; net zero: sustainable from start to finish; crafted with water-based and plant-based inks; eco-friendly, recycled, and 100% compostable box AND tape! Plus, every box purchased plants a tree in partnership with One Tree Planted. Let’s keep trees out of our toilets and back where they belong—in our forests!

Shop now at melanieavalon.com/heybamboo.

PELUVA BAREFOOT SHOES

Are your shoes ruining your health? The barefoot lifestyle can be key to health and performance, and Pevula Shoes aren’t just stylish—they’re designed to actually support your feet, especially your big toe! With a fit that encourages natural alignment, they help distribute weight evenly, reducing unnecessary pressure and discomfort. The ergonomic shape and ultra-comfy materials make them perfect for everything from running errands to long days on your feet. Style + foot health? Yes, please!

Get 10% off Peluva shoes with code ifpodcast at peluva.com/ifpodcast.

VIVOBAREFOOT SHOES

Vivobarefoot shoes are designed to reconnect you with the natural way your body was meant to move - light, free, and grounded. With ultra-thin, flexible soles and a wide toe box, they support foot strength, posture, and balance by mimicking barefoot walking, all while looking sleek and stylish. Whether you're into biohacking, minimalist living, or just want happier feet, Vivobarefoot is a game changer!

Get 20% off with code melanieavalon at vivobarefoot.com.

BETTERHELP

Melanie believes in the power of talk therapy, and even better if it can be done remotely! BetterHelp is entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can also switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day, with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/ifpodcast today to get 10% off your first month!

Visit BetterHelp.com/ifpodcast to get 10% off your first month!

CAROL AI BIKE

The CAROL bike uses REHIT and AI technology to give you all the benefits of extensive cardio exercise, in 6-8 minutes, a few times per week! Increase your VO2 max, enhance your lipid levels, reduce blood sugar and HBA1C, burn fat, and more!

Use the code melanieavalon for $100 off at carolbike.com!

BLISSY

Get cooling, comfortable, sustainable silk pillowcases to revolutionize your sleep, skin, and hair! Once you get silk pillowcases, you will never look back! Get blissy in tons of colors, and risk-free for 60 nights

Get 30% off with the code IFPODCAST at blissy.com/ifpodcast!

LOMI

Turn your kitchen scraps into dirt, to reduce waste, add carbon back to the soil, and support sustainability!

Get $50 with the code IFPODCAST at lomi.com/ifpodcast!

VIVARAYS

Overexposure to blue light in our modern environments can lead to increased anxiety, stress, headaches, insomnia, and other health conditions. Unlike many “blue light blocking” glasses on the market, VivaRays provides glasses that block the exact blue wavelengths you need to regulate sleep, reduce anxiety, and much more! They provide glasses for different times of day and night, in an array of styles. They also use sustainable materials and packaging!!

Go to melanieavalon.com/vivarays and use coupon code melanieavalon to save 10%

BonCharge

Boncharge provides an array of biohacking products, include red light therapy devices and blue light blocking glasses!

Go to boncharge.com and use coupon code ifpodcast to save 15%!

AUDIBLE

This is Melanie's well-known secret for reading #allthebooks #allthetime! Audible provides the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet, in every genre! With Audible, you can listen on any device, anytime, anywhere! Every month, members get 1 credit to pick any title, unlimited Audible Originals, access to daily news digests (The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post), guided meditation programs, Audible Sleep, and more! Audible provides rollover credits, easy exchanges, discounts on titles beyond credits, and audiobooks you'll keep forever! For those with children, check out the free: stories.audible.com!

Go to audible.com/ifpodcast or text IFPODCAST to 500-500 for a 30-day free trial, including a free audiobook!

Oura Ring

Oura is a wearable device which tracks your heart rate, temperature, activity levels, respiration, blood oxygen to evaluate your level of stress, and help you tackle the days in the best and most healthiest way possible! You can even track your fertility cycles, and see sickness progression! I wear this every day of my life, and it is a game changer for approaching my life in the healthiest way possible!

Get an offer at at ouraring.com/melanieavalon!

Sunlighten

Bring the healing benefits of a daily infrared sauna session - from detox to mood relation to stress relief to viral immunity - to your own home! (I use the portable Solo unit every single night!)

Get up to $200 off and $99 shipping (regularly $598) with the code melanieavalon at MelanieAvalon.Com/Sunlighten. Forward your proof of purchase to contact@melanieavalon.com, to receive a signed copy of What When Wine!

HypoAir

HypoAir's extremely small air purifiers kill mold and viruses on the molecular level, rather than just trapping them, with no filter changes reauired! You can even get a device for your HVAC system, and purify your whole house - no air purifiers needed!

Get 10% off with the code melanieavalon at hypoair.com!

Prolon

Valter Longo's fastng mimcking diet (FMD) low protein low calorie food system stimulates the benefits of a 5 day extended fast!

Get 10% off with the code ifpodcast at https://prolonlife.com!

Remarkable

Melanie uses this to take all her notes for the shows! It is a game changer if you take handwritten notes!! Write with the feeling of a real pen/pencil/marker, and convert your notes to text!

Shop at remarkable.com!

Analema

Turn your water coherent, for an array scientifically-proven health benefits!

Get a 10% off with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/analemma!

Apollo Neuro

Apolloneuro is an incredible sound wave therapy device which automatically puts your body into a parasympathetic state, to reduce stress, calm anxiety, cure insomnia, and so much more!

Get 15% off at melanieavalon.com/apolloneuro!

Dime

This nontoxic makeup brands make an incredible eyelash growth serum Melanie swears by!

Get a discount with the code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/dime!

MOONBIRD

Moonbird is an amazing handheld device that literally “breathes” with you, guiding you through scientifically backed breathing techniques to reduce stress, improve focus, and help you relax. Melanie loves how intuitive it is—no complicated apps or setups, just natural, rhythmic breathing at your fingertips. It’s proven science-backed benefits include everything from sleeping better to reducing anxiety. Whether you're prepping for a big day, winding down at night, or just needing a moment to reset, Moonbird is a go-to for instant calm.

Get 5% off with code MELANIEAVALON246 at melanieavalon.com/moonbird

SAFE CATCH

Safe Catch is the brand Melanie MOST trusts, for responsibly- sourced, low mercury seafood! Safe catch is endorsed by the APA as a great source of protein and Omega 3s, and their Elite Wild Tuna is the only brand to meet Consumer Reports' “Low Mercury” criteria set for sensitive groups such as pregnant women and children. Their tuna and salmon are tested for purity, with the lowest mercury levels you’ll find anywhere, making it the perfect protein-packed addition to meals. Safe Catch also tests to be low in histamine!! Their tuna and salmon is absolutely delicious, available in both cans and pouches, and also available in no salt added versions!

Get 20% off with code MELANIEAVALON at safecatch.com

Vesta

Melanie uses a Vesta silk-filled thermoregulating duvet to sleep cool! It's made of 100% premium wild silk with no additives or chemicals, and a 100% ORGANIC cotton shell. It's moisture-wicking (silk naturally absorbs moisture to keep you dry all the time!), naturally hypoallergenic, dust-proof, and comfortable all seasons! As a low conductor of heat, silk perfectly controls your sleep temperature all year round, keeping you cool in the summer, and warm in the winter!

Get a discount with the code 21Melanie at melanieavalon.com/vesta!

We only list products throughout this website that we genuinely use and love. Some of the links are affiliate links, which simply means, if you decide to purchase through the links, we may receive a small percentage which can help make our podcast possible.

May 11

#473 – Mimicking Food Choices, Social Eating Influences, Weight Gain After Starting Fasting, Book Translations, Stress And Weight Gain, Premium Wine Secrets, And More!

Welcome to Episode 473 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

LINKS

STUDIES:
Food choice mimicry on a large university campus

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

BRANCH BASICS

Get 15% off the Premium Starter Kit with code ifpodcast at branchbasics.com/ifpodcast.

LMNT

LMNT is a zero-sugar electrolyte drink that supports hydration, energy, brain function, and muscle performance with a science-backed blend of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. Staying hydrated is especially important during the summer months, whether you’re traveling, spending time outdoors, working out, sweating more in the heat, or following a low-carb or whole-food diet. With clean ingredients and refreshing flavors, LMNT makes hydration easy and enjoyable all summer long. Get your free Sample Pack with any LMNT purchase at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast.

SUNLIGHTEN

Sunlighten is a leader in infrared sauna technology, delivering targeted wavelengths that support cellular energy, detoxification, relaxation, cardiovascular health, and longevity. With ultra-low EMF, no off-gassing materials, and over 25 years of innovation, it’s a luxurious, science-backed way to support your health from the comfort of your own home! (Melanie is obsessed with the solo unit!) Get up to $1,600 off + FREE shipping at get.sunlighten.com/ifpodcast

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 473 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 473 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for asking.

I shared some news last week, and I've got some more good news this week, which I'm super, super stoked about. I have signed on to be the host and face of Australia House at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Wait. Okay. So you were, because you were going already, right? Is this like a new development with what you're doing?

Barry Conrad
I wasn't sure, like the G'day USA Art Scala was all part of that because the American Australian Association orchestrated that and I was maybe going to, I was in talks to be the host. I guess I can say this now, but it actually happened at the lot, like, you know, very, very recently. So it's like, it just happened. I just announced it and I'm heading to Austin in a few days and I'm, which is so crazy.

And if listeners don't know what that is, South by Southwest is basically this massive annual festival in Austin where like leaders in music, film, tech, hospitality, wellness, they all come together. Like it's one of those, the biggest gatherings of creatives and industry people in the world, 300 to 500,000 people every year and it's, you never know, quite know what you're going to see or what's going to blow up. Like people like Billy Eilish, Dua Lipa, John Mayer, Amy Winehouse all played there early on. Twitter was that big breakout room there too and basically Australia House is basically the official Australian hub there during the festival. So it's a space where a lot of Aussie artists, companies and creatives showcase what they're doing and there's like panel discussions, film and TV panel discussions, performances, networking events, dinners, which you'd love now, all that kind of thing. So it's highlighting Aussie talent and connecting it all with a big international industry. And I'm so stoked. This is like, it's such a huge opportunity for me and especially being almost five and a half, six months into living here, I feel really happy about this and I'm just so proud to be representing Australia here as well. Again, I can't get away from Australia, so I'm really excited.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, congratulations, that is so epic. So by the way, I have a friend, probably have a lot of friends going to South by Southwest.

I didn't realize, I always associated it with primarily like the film side of things. I didn't realize there's a whole entire, like you mentioned, but a whole wellness aspect to it. Like they're having my friend, Andrew McConnell, who I've had on the Biohacking podcast a few times, he's going and he was telling me all the, like all the guests they're having who are like in the wellness sphere. And it's, it's crazy. Like it's like Rhonda Patrick. And he mentioned so many people that I was familiar with. So yeah, I didn't realize that it brought together all those different aspects. Anyway, so as the host, what are you doing? Like what is that entail?

Barry Conrad
So basically, I'll be the face of the Australian hub there. Like Australia, it's called Australia House, and I'll be helping to moderate panel discussions, introduce all the guests that are there. It's so cool. And also get to do even some banter with BCS stuff, like having Vox Puffs of people talking to different bartenders, how they make their drinks, Aussie-inspired food. It's very exciting because it's like bars, what I already sort of do, and just in a bigger platform. So it's really cool.

I'm really, really, really happy to be going. And I've never been to Austin. Have you been to Austin before?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh, actually it's like the place I've been the most because of the conferences. You're going to love it.

I think I've been there maybe three times and then I'll be going again in May for the Beyond Conference now is what it's called. Wait, where are you staying?

Barry Conrad
Actually, Mel, I'm so sorry. I already knew that. Of course you've been to Austin. You told me that you've been there before.

Yeah, it's my first time. I'm staying at, I guess I can say that now because it's going to be in the future, but the Lauren and it's this luxury hotel. It's famously by this lake as well. And it's only a couple of miles from the actual craziness and the excitement of the festival. So I get to have this respite at this beautiful hotel who I partner with as well. Shout out to the Lauren and I can't wait to be over there and create some great content for them. And just, yeah, I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, that is so epic. Whoa, and like right off of the heels of going to the G'day event, you're just killing it.

Barry Conrad
Well, I just, yeah, I just feel like, you know, those things where it's like, is it going to happen? It's not going to happen. It's that kind of moment, you know.

Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. You're going to get to meet so many incredible people. You're going to kill it. You're going to rock it. Congratulations.

Barry Conrad
Thank you. I wish you were going. There will be other things.

Melanie Avalon
I know. How many days are you there?

Barry Conrad
only a few days. It's really short. All the prep for, you know, how it always is like so much prayer for like a moment, right? But I'm going to soak it all in.

Melanie Avalon
That's so exciting. Wait, what day do you leave? This week.

Barry Conrad
this weekend.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see all your posts on Instagram and hear all about it.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to. What about you? How are you?

Melanie Avalon
I am good. Life is good. I have one update, but I'll save it for next week.

I'll just tell the funny story that I gave as a teaser from last time, which is that you would have loved this. There's this place here called Be No Venue and they have wine tasting classes and things like that. And so they got me tickets to one of the classes to promote them. And it's so funny because it was like fundamentals of wine level one, there's like 20 people there. Everybody there was like much older. I was, I don't know, I felt like I looked like the, you know, influencer girl who probably doesn't know much about wine. And I felt like I had to prove myself is the point.

So the way have you been to like a wine tasting class? Like were you like learn stuff?

Barry Conrad
I've been to like a beer tasting, like I've been to wine tasting, but not...

Melanie Avalon
like education class. Yeah. So this was like, I mean, again, it was like level one. So it wasn't anything too intense.

There were nine different wine tastings, two of which were blind at the end. And they taught us just basic tasting things. And at the beginning, so there were three glasses. And the way they did it was they would fill three tastes at a time. And then we would taste one, learn about it, and then dump it or finish it. And then they would refill it for the next taste. I don't know what happened, but I got confused about the order of what was in the glasses. So there was a moment, like early on, where we're like, OK, we're going to taste the Chardonnay or whatever. So I pick up the one I thought was what we're supposed to be tasting, but it was the wrong glass. And I'm just sitting there swirling it around, doing my thing. And not the instructor who was teaching us, but the other guy who worked there, he comes over and he's like, ma'am, that's not the right one. And I was like, oh my god. Because literally my fear, I was like, they're going to think I'm so stupid. So then I was like, I have to redeem myself. Because I was convinced. I was like, they think I'm really, really not that smart. So they told us there was going to be an exam at the end. And it was like an oral exam. So you just yelled out the answer. And every answer, I was on fire. They were like, I got, yeah, I killed it. So I won. So then I redeemed myself. Oh man. They're like, what, like what Valley was, you know, this way I'm like, Laura Valley? Like what fruit is most common Pinot Noir? Cherry. Like I was like on top.

Barry Conrad
I'm trying to picture your face like when you first felt like you don't like how

Melanie Avalon
I'm embarrassed. I know. I know. I was. I don't know. And I shouldn't be that embarrassed, but I was so embarrassed.

Like so embarrassed. Why? Because I was, I made a really stupid mistake and I'm like, you know.

Barry Conrad
But you redeemed yourself. You smashed it. You really did.

Melanie Avalon
I did. So take that. You can always redeem yourself is the point.

Barry Conrad
yelling at all the answers. That's great.

Melanie Avalon
But I really recommend being a venue, they're amazing. And if you're in Atlanta, they have like wine on tap, so you can like do tastings where you get like a card and you like, you know, can like pour out just small tastes of wine and stuff. So, and that's actually where I took my W-Set, my Wine Spirit Education Trust Level Two. I took my exam there back in the day.

So, yeah, now I'm thinking I might, I wish there was more time, but taking this class, I was like, I should go for Level Three of the W-Set. Do it, do it, do it. Well, first of all, it's, it would be, Level Two was really difficult. This is, again, this is different. So like the class I went to was just like a class, a local class they were doing. I'm talking about like one of the main wine education programs out there. And it's very difficult and like Level Two was hard enough. And so Level Three would be, it would be so much time and money and.

Speaker 3
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's like, why is there any more time, any more time? So many things I would do, but that's my story.

Barry Conrad
It's a great story. Thank you for sharing. That was so funny.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you for being here. Congrats again on Austin. Cannot wait to hear all about it. You should come to the BEYOND Conference in May.

Barry Conrad
You know what, let's discuss after because that's actually a great idea.

Melanie Avalon
actually is a great idea. Or you should come to Eudaimonia in November, which is in West Palm Beach. Which one's better? They're both really amazing.

Dave's conference is massive. So, I mean, like, everybody's there. It's huge. Eudaimonia is like really high calibers, a lot of the same brands, a lot of the same guest speakers, but not as overwhelming because it's like, but it's still pretty intense. I'm just happier at Eudaimonia because it's not in May in Austin, the heat. It's West Palm in November. Have you been to West Palm?

Barry Conrad
I have not, but I've just made a note of both of them now so I can actually have a look.

Melanie Avalon
We should discuss. We could get you tickets, I'm sure, for...

Barry Conrad
Either. It's so exciting. And then we have to meet, obviously, before that, or we might even meet in one of these. No, surely not. We can't be. It has to be before that.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I don't know. Don't you kind of want to meet meet me when I'm like in my best vibe, which is like in the winter.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, actually, because in the summer, you might be like, hey, great to see you, great to finally meet you, not excited at all.

Melanie Avalon
No, I'm always happy and everything. I'm just saying I'm really happy in the winter.

Barry Conrad
And then you won't be like, Barry, things change from the car to the entrance. It's like, wait, what?

You'd be like, everything's changed. Like you went from the car to like the door. I'd be like, no, because it's somewhere it's different.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm not a fan. I don't like the elements. Okay, shall we jump into some fasting-related things?

Barry Conrad
I think we should. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome. So let me send you, to start things off, I have a study for us to talk about. So this study is called food choice mimicry on a large university campus. It is from December, 2024.

So this was a study that was conducted on a large Swiss university campus. And what they wanted to do was they wanted to see what are the odds of you buying a food item when somebody else, like right in front of you, buys that item? Like how influenced are we from other people's buying choices when it comes to food? They looked at different food types. They looked at time of day. They looked at different genders. They looked at if it was staff versus students. And they had so many data points. So they had, how many data points did they have? The equivalent, okay. It was data from 2010 to 2018. It was 18 million transactions that they looked at, 38.7,000 users. So this is like a massive data set that they looked at.

And so what they did was they broke it down into 509,000. They called it dyads, but it's basically like pairs of people. So like people who bought items back to back at the same register within five minutes, who also often ended up eating together at least 10 times. So these people had to know each other, presumably, because they at least ate together 10 times. And then they had to be like back to back when they were purchasing. So it's not just like a random stranger in front of you. It's somebody who you at least have eaten with at some point. What they found was, oh, and then they also broke it down into the anchor items and the addition items. So the anchor items was like the main meal. So like, was it a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian meal at lunch? And then at breakfast, was it coffee or tea as like the main thing? And then the additions were at lunch, condiments, salad, pastry, desserts, soup, soft drinks, and fruit. And at breakfast, the additions were fruit, desserts, and pastries. And they found that across all of the 13 types of additions, the person, if the person in front of you bought something, you are more likely to buy it yourself.

So the way it actually like panned out as far as like the intensity of that, overall it was a 14.2% percentage points of a risk difference. And the relative risk was 1.83. But what that translates to like practically would be like, if somebody got a dessert and your chances of getting the dessert are 17% to start with, if the person in front of you gets one as well gets one, then that jumps up to like 31% like that you're likely to get it. So the biggest effects were seen in condiments, which was a 23.9% difference with points. So like that much more likely to purchase the condiment if somebody in front of you did. The least of the additions was soft drinks. So, which I find really interesting. I guess people, so people are more likely, if somebody in front of you gets some ketchup, you're more likely to get ketchup. If the person in front of you gets like a Coke or a Sprite, you are more likely to get that as well, but not as much as like the condiments.

Melanie Avalon
The biggest in the breakfast, the ordering was, people were much more likely pastries. So pastries was the highest for breakfast to add on and then fruit and then dessert.

And then for afternoon, the biggest difference was, oh, again, pastries. And then, fruit and then desserts. And they also found that the anchor one also affected it. So if somebody got vegetarian or non-vegetarian, that made you more likely to do that. Or if they got coffee versus tea, that made you more likely to get it. They found that the biggest effect was when it was students and students, they mimicked each other the most. And the lowest was staff and staff. So staff people were not as much mimicking each other. For students, it was 17.89%. And for staff to staff, it was only 9.66%. There was no difference between gender of people. Let's see if there's any other differences. And then, oh, the time lag also affected it. So the shorter the amount of time between the person in front of you purchasing, the more likely you were to mimic them. And then they also tried looking at those dyads, so those couples that were connected together because they dined together, but not ordering back to back. And there was no effect. And there was no effect with strangers. So you had to be back to back with the people to have this effect. They actually made a lot of interesting suggestions about how this could be used practically for encouraging healthy food choices, which was something they had suggested was if they could have a system where people order their food before going in line, then people would not be subconsciously affected by the other people, which I guess on the one hand, it can be beneficial if it influences you in a healthy way, but not if it's soft drinks and desserts and pastries, not so much. So they were saying if there could be a way that people could order their food and then pick it up rather than getting it in line, they also said maybe it could be helpful if they did staff days where staff ate with students, and then the staff's healthy food choices could influence the students' choices, and then they could even have a reward system where the staff gets some sort of reward if the student picks something healthy.

That's so interesting. I know. It was really, really interesting. So the ways that we... I think this is... Well, there's a whole thing we can talk about is just how much other people's food choices affect our food choices. And then I think it would go both ways as far as if you're doing intermittent fasting. This could also explain why it might be more difficult if you're doing fasting and your friends aren't doing fasting because we tend to mimic each other. Also because they saw it more in the young students rather than the older adults, the staff, that people who are younger in general with their food choices and their fasting might struggle more with mimicking other people. And I also just wanted to talk about, but I'll stop talking, but I'm also really curious. I was thinking about me. It's funny because I am so unaffected by other people's food choices. I literally just eat whatever I want.

Melanie Avalon
But I'm trying to think back. How long have I been like that? When I was younger, was I mimicking people? When I was in college, was I mimicking people more? And I would wonder also if this would be affected.

They didn't do this, but I wish they had data on what the students... Were the students following a diet or not? Because would that affect things? I do wonder if you have rules in your head about what you eat or donate? Does that affect how much you're influenced by other people? So yeah, that's that study. What are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
I think this is super interesting and it's something that you sort of, well, I've observed happened in real time, but maybe I'm oblivious to whether or not I do that. You know what I mean?

Like, cause I see, no, cause I see, you see people copying each other. Oh, I'll get the same. Or it's almost like, you know, the person that orders first sets the tone kind of thing, you know, for the table, especially if you, like, as you said, like there's got to be relationship there, you know, a certain kind of a relationship. It's not just strangers necessarily. And if they would anchor it like, cool, well, I'll just get the same thing. Or that's like the thing to get. It wasn't surprising to me about the age because maybe I was guessing as soon as you said that, that they're more socially influenced in general, cause they like the younger people and they just, you know, would be more effect, like more susceptible to disorder and whatever else is getting. And then also made me think when you shared that, that about restaurant tables, because I'm swear that I swear that I've seen people like order fries or dessert and then suddenly some people are running and get all have what they're having kind of thing. It's, it's interesting.

Like it's, it's, it gives a scientific explanation for that rather than, oh, that's a fluke or like, do you think that happens when we eat with our friends? I mean, you said that you, you're pretty unfazed with that. Like it was order what you want, but I wonder like in friends groups and stuff as well, if someone orders something indulgent, uh, why not? Yeah, I'll do it too. You know, rather than just stick into their guns, you know.

Melanie Avalon
No, like, actually, that's such a good point because I at least, okay, because like, I have to think back so far because I've been so, I don't want to say neurotic, but I've been so intense about what I eat for so long that it's been a while that I have felt influenced by other people with my food choices. But I'm thinking back to like, growing up, and like, if it came to like dessert time, for example, I would maybe feel guilty about eating dessert, but then it's like, if somebody else is eating it too, then it's like, oh, it's okay, you know, like, cuz like, the one person will like want the dessert, it's like, well, do you want it to okay, and then like, it's like, oh, then you're like, it like alleviates guilt in some way, for at least for eating like indulgent type related things, I think.

But it's also just interesting that, yeah, I'm trying to think, I wonder like going back to like, when I used to eat at the high school cafeteria, like, did I get based on the person in front of me? If I had sat with them, if they were like one of my, you know, within my friend's fear, did I would I adjust what I was eating, I was probably so subconscious, like people don't even realize they're doing this, you know.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it really kind of does show how eating can be so much more socially, sort of like, almost contagious.

Melanie Avalon
Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly.

Barry Conrad
And what you said about the guilt piece is really true, even in the reverse, in a way. I remember one of my ex-girlfriends, we went to this Japanese restaurant, well, it was more like a casual lunch place. And I, without even thinking, I just like sashimi, so I just ordered some sashimi. And she ordered something that was like into those fried gyozas kind of thing. Fried what? Is it gyoza? You say gyoza?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I don't know. Wait, what is that?

Barry Conrad
It's sort of like a dumpling kind of a thing.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know what that is. How do you spell it?

Barry Conrad
Gyoza, it's a G-Y-O-Z-A. Oh.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know what that is. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Yes so and then you know having that and then like the guilt keeps like no you just have what you want kind of thing so i think it happens in reverse as well like if you're not eating the same thing. It's like when you when you have a certain relationship with some people it matters like what they order you know like you know.

The reverse as well yeah it's interesting yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember, and I've talked about this before, and I talk about it in my book, but I used to have this friend that would go with us to Florida, so we would eat like a lot of meals together. And she was always getting ready for her soccer camp. And so she was always like eating really healthy. And it used to bother me, it bothered me so bad.

Because when we would go to the restaurants, she would always get a chicken, a Caesar salad with chicken every time. And I was like, why is she not? Because it, yeah, and it really shows you like how much people's insecurities about food or projections onto other people are just about them. Like that was just me being insecure about what I was eating. It wasn't about her, like she should be able to eat whatever she wants. You know, I'm just thinking, I guess I don't, I'm not really, I'm gonna start noticing this. I guess I'm not really in cafeteria situations, which is where it's more prevalent. But I'm gonna start noticing like at group dinners, if people, like when you're going around and ordering, if people seem to adjust at all.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, I see it all the time, like going to group dinners and stuff. It's just, yeah, we'll just get the same.

Like, you know, sometimes people have, maybe it's decision fatigue. Maybe it's just safety because someone they trust is getting something. It's, it just points to how like environment is such a big driver, like without us even realizing a food, like how people order, you know? Like the cues around that. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's so interesting because like last week we talked about emotional eating, so like emotions affecting what you're eating and then this is about environment and yeah, this is why I just like having like having my fasting window and I like having for me knowing what I eat and what I don't eat because then I then I don't get influenced by like I'm literally not going to eat something that I don't want to eat.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, speaking of fasting, I wonder then, and not that I never want to be someone who tries to parade or preach anything, but I wonder if without even realizing if you're intermittent fasting, if that sets an example or if that people might naturally copy the way you're eating. Do you know if it could be used in a healthy way, like your habits, I wonder if it works the same way or if it's more just like food choices, you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think I think it more often creates the negative mirror projection situation, which is unfortunate, but I think it because okay, here's the here's the example like, well, now I'm thinking this through in real time. So if people are like all ordering different, but we're all eating, we're all like, we're all eating, choosing like a healthier choice.

I think that's more likely to maybe encourage somebody to do the same compared to like, I'm fasting and they're eating. I think my experience, it tends to just more annoy people, because it looks like a like a reflection on them, even though it's not like it's not about them, but that's the way it presents sometimes.

Barry Conrad
I totally agree.

Melanie Avalon
It's so freeing when I meet somebody who might not do fasting, or maybe they do, but just whenever I meet somebody who just literally doesn't care. Because I go to a lot of situations where I'm not eating and other people are eating, and usually I'm drinking because it's going to be early in the evening, but it's so interesting to see how different people react to that.

Barry Conrad
Yep. Food is a complex beast. It's so many things woven around it. So much conditioning, so many patterns of thinking individually and projected by other people, what we see on social media, what we see on TV. And it's just, it's complicated for a lot of people.

Melanie Avalon
I get so grateful, like so grateful when I have a friend who like just literally doesn't care, you know, and like doesn't give me grief, doesn't, doesn't even question it. It's just like, okay, that's what you're doing. Like I am so grateful for those people. I'm like, thank you for not like making this a whole thing.

Barry Conrad
Cause it's not really an old thing at all. I also liked how, like I found it interesting how subtle it is too.

Like, you know, you think you might think you're choosing independently, but even didn't you say like, sometimes people would buy the same sort of category, not necessarily the same type of food, like, or rather buy the same type of food, but not the exact same thing. So it's like even.

Melanie Avalon
Right. Yeah. It looks like pastries.

Barry Conrad
They're like nudging your brain without even realizing it. Yeah, that's, that's kind of creepy. Or fruit. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, the social influence of people to people, and it's not just food stuff, it's like so much behavior. We tend to mimic other people. We don't realize it. It's subconscious.

Barry Conrad
Where does it come from? It's so crazy. It's so interesting.

Melanie Avalon
It's an evolutionary drive to like form bonds, be liked, be accepted in the clan. It's why people like, that's why you can like look at two people at a table and kind of just tell from their body language if they're like into each other or not, because people who are either friends or romantic, whatever it is, like, do they like each other?

Do they want to be liked by the other person? Like you can tell by their body language and how they're, you know, acting. So fun times with that study.

Barry Conrad
That was super awesome. It was so interesting. And I'm like my brain, so I'm still thinking about it.

Melanie Avalon
and we're going to start seeing it now. We're going to start looking around.

Man, if I was like a lunch lady, I could do my own experiment and watch all the kiddos ordering their stuff. Shall we answer some listener questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
So, okay, we have a long question, lots of good stuff in here. So this is from Sandra. Her subject was actually your book in Spanish. But the email says, Sandra says, I gotta say, I absolutely love your podcast and have been binge listening. I have so many things to say, ha ha. I first heard of, and maybe we can actually do these like one at a time, she said, I first heard of IF in 2017 from a coworker and thought that was the worst thing you could do to your body. We should eat five to seven times a day, and the morning meal is the most important ever. That's what she thought before.

I kind of ignored her, but then I started hearing about IF again last year, and I had to do some research about it because it honestly went against everything I've always believed in. It might be important to say that I'm Mexican and I came to the US to study in September 2017. So culturally, the way we eat is super different. I listened to Dr. Fung's The Obesity Code and Jen's Delay Don't Deny, and I did a ton of research. This was just too good to be true. I started my IF lifestyle in April of 2019 and haven't stopped since. I lost 18 pounds in the first three months, and I've plateaued for another six months. And now starting this year, I've actually gone up 10 pounds. I do the weigh daily and average weekly technique. I'm horrified by this, and I have no idea what's going on. My diet hasn't really changed, nor has my eating window, which is three to five hours daily. However, I should point out that I've been through a lot of emotional stress lately. I graduated and as an international student, had been job hunting since December, trying to stay in the States. I finally got a job and I started February 1st, plus my relationship just ended as well. So lots of huge life changes.

Any suggestions to get back on track with the weight loss? I'm 29 years old, 5'1", and about 31% body fat weighing 128 pounds right now. And she has more things, but maybe we can start with that. What are your thoughts on that?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for the thoughtful and generous message and I could really feel the excitement in what you wrote and hearing that you've been binge listening to the show, it means a lot to both of us, I can say, and there's something really special about knowing that these conversations are traveling with people on their drives and they commute to their work and their workouts while they're figuring out their own fasting adventure. And I love also that your path into fasting, hearing about that, because it sounds really familiar, at least to me as well, that moment when someone first mentions IF or in my case when I read it and you think, whoa, what is this?

And then, you know, and for decades we're told we need to eat constantly, I totally get that five or six times a day, there was a point, there was something called the body for life situation, which I did, which is six meals a day. So I totally understand, you never skip breakfast, always keep metabolism spiked and whatnot. So when fasting sort of comes into the equation, Sandra, it can feel almost like a backwards unlearning thing. I really admire that instead of dismissing it despite your like, you know, you come from a different background and the way you eat and the way you are, you did your research and you got curious and that's great. And the obesity code, Jason Fong, it's awesome. Delayed and denied, Jim Stevens, like you gave yourself permission to sort of question things at least and dig into something different. And, you know, your results in the beginning are a reflection of that. And also typical of what people see in the beginning. So an initial wet and drop can, initial drop of wet, I should say, can happen quickly. And then some people do experience that plateau. Sandra, I know it's really frustrating and you can feel like, what am I doing that's wrong? What am I doing that's not right? But they can. They're also pretty normal and common, like your body doesn't lose weight. Our bodies don't lose weight in a perfect straight line. It's not linear, you know, it adapts, it recalibrates, sometimes it holds steady for a while before it shifts again in another direction. And the weight gain you're saying here that this year, especially with what you're saying, like the context of everything you've been through. So it stood out because you're graduating, stress are trying to get a new job as an international student. That's tough. Navigating immigration uncertainty, new job, going through the end of a relationship. That's all big things. So when stress level spikes, Sandra, your hormones can shift, cortisol can go all over the place, sleep can really suffer and often does, emotional strain is going to skyrocket, all of those things they do and can influence our weight. Even if your eating window hasn't changed, even if you feel like you're eating, quote unquote, like clockwork or nothing's changed with your eating. Our internal, sort of like an internal environment, like our body's environment, like that can change so much.

Barry Conrad
So the first thing I want to say is, please don't panic or assume like anything's wrong or something's broken. You know, I would say focus on sleep, focus on your emotional well-being first, some sort of movement, some sort of exercise that feels supportive rather than like you're punishing yourself through what you're going through or, and also meals that are nourishing for you during your eating window as well.

I mean, weight loss is, it can often like resume once your nervous system feels safe. Like a lot of things do, can just reset again or find a equilibrium. So you're still at a healthy weight range for your height. So it doesn't mean that your goals, yeah, they're not, your goals aren't not valid. It just means that your body might resist some changes more than it did earlier.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love everything you said so much. And the first thing that really spoke to me, and Barry was talking about this, but the stress piece cannot be underestimated for its effects on your body, your metabolism, you know, how it's dealing with your energy levels and your weight loss or weight gain. I mean, you don't mention sleep. You just mentioned the emotional stress, but I can imagine that might be affecting your sleep as well. And, you know, sleep disruption has massive effects on our hunger levels, on our hunger hormones. So like, it makes you have higher levels of ghrelin, which is our hunger hormone. It makes us feel hungry. It actually lowers our leptin, which makes us feel full. It can make us actually increase our calorie intake. And we might not even be realizing it. Even like one week of poor sleep, for example, can reduce insulin sensitivity by around 20 to 30%. So if it's affecting your sleep, I would not underestimate what that might be doing with everything.

As far as the fasting, like Barry was saying, like weight loss isn't linear. And it sounds like for this, you know, you lost weight that you plateaued, then you regained it. It is important to remember that when people first start fasting, they often do experience that large push in the beginning. And then, and plateau, that's not uncommon. Gaining it back and gaining it back again, like I said, can be due to a lot of the other factors that are happening. What I would suggest is either you could adjust your fasting window, but if you're like happy with it and how it's fitting in your life, don't underestimate the power of food choices. So because you don't mention at all what you're eating. So I don't know if you tend to eat culturally more. So like traditional, like Mexican type foods, which can be pretty high in like carbs and fat and things like that. So the choices of the food that you actually eat within your window, it's not about like restricting or anything like that. But if you're eating, you know, processed foods, if you like make them eat less processed foods, or if you focus on protein, like protein first, we talk about this all the time. But like leading with protein can have a huge effect. But I would just I would take a breather, I would stay the course, and know that you can't like things can change in the way that make you feel happier about everything. And like Barry said, you technically, and I don't really put a lot of stock in BMI. Technically, you are in normal range of BMI. I understand that like 31% body fat that you might want lower body fat and a lower BMI as well. You know, you're not like morbidly obese or anything like that. So I think you can make a lot of beneficial changes with some looking at the whole lifestyle. And this question was sent to us quite a while ago. So hopefully, hopefully now everything went well with your, you know, being the student here and trying to stay in the States. I can't even imagine how stressful that must be like that. That just thinking about it, like I feel the stress in my body and then the relationship, like you said, so many life changes.

Melanie Avalon
So sending you love and good vibes, stay the course, look at the food choices you're making inside of your eating window, focus on sleep, focus on stress reduction, and and keep on caving on. So, okay, the next part of her question, she says, now the point I actually wanted to get to, I just ordered what when wine and I can't wait to get it and devour it.

But I also really want to share all this wealth of information with my family, but they're all back in Mexico and do not speak English, please, please, please, could you consider having your books available in Spanish. So what's really interesting is I so for once I traditionally published my book, all of that is like, I don't have any, like, I didn't have any say in translations or anything like that. Like, I don't have the, I mean, it's ironic, because it's my book, but the publisher really makes all those decisions. So I think it only got translated into one other language, which was, I should remember, I think you got translated into like check, which is like very random. But I wonder now because again, this was sent to us so long ago, I wonder now with AI if can you like auto translate books.

Barry Conrad
I'm guessing, yeah, surely. Yeah, of course.

Melanie Avalon
So it might not even be as much of an issue anymore now. I haven't even looked into that because I wish I was multilingual. I just speak English.

Not to go on a tangent, but I think about how growing up and going to all these different countries where they spoke different languages and we had to have a physical book and translate things, and now there's just apps for that. I haven't used them though. Have you used them to translate?

Barry Conrad
The extent of that is I've tried to like, I'm trying to relearn Afrikaans again, like, you know, a bit more like my second language, but that's more, it's not really like a translation app. It's more just like a tutorial app, but yeah, there's just so much, there's so many resources now with our phones.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's wild. Sometimes I really want to, I mean, this is like a, you probably don't have the experience of like going to the nail salon, but there's like the cliche of like the nail salon and like wondering if they're talking about you because they tend to be like Korean or Asian salons.

Like sometimes I'm like, I want to like pull out an app and like see if they're talking about me.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure that there's one, I'm sure that there is one that in real time can do it.

Melanie Avalon
need a secret one that doesn't show. Thank you, Sandra, about all of that. And for wanting to share it. Oh, I do want to echo what Barry was saying at the beginning. I just love your excitement and passion about everything. And I love when people are open-minded. When you first heard of intermittent fasting, you thought it was crazy. You thought everybody should eat five to seven times a day. And the morning meal is the most important. And you changed your mind and looked into it more. So love that.

End of her email, she says, last but not least, for all the wine drinking listeners out there. Okay. She says, as a winemaker myself, which that's amazing. I wonder, like, I want to know more about how she makes wine. I can tell you that although there are many wines with a lot of additives and not so good stuff, there are also millions that are amazing, have no additives or pesticides, but are not necessarily labeled as such. Most premium wines are crafted in the most natural ways. And even if they're not certified organic or biodynamic, they utilize sustainable practices. Just wanted to let people know that they shouldn't be afraid of wine.

Thank you so much for all the love, passion, and work you put into this podcast. IF has forever changed my life and would love to help you spread the word. So yeah, publish in Spanish. Love, Sandra. So seriously, this is like one of the most amazing emails. Thank you again so much. And to comment on the wine stuff, I agree. This is why I'm always... I don't want to say necessarily that, like, quote, premium wines are more likely to be like that, because I've actually found that there are a lot of, quote, premium, like expensive wines, especially in the US. And you would assume it's like a 200 bottle of wine that it would be, and I would assume it would be like organic, but they're not, they're often not. I think European premium wines are more likely to be like this. It's so true what you're saying that a lot of them are not certified. You can usually find wines that are, you know, don't have the additives, are drier, not high in alcohol, not with the pesticides. And that's why you just got to look up the wines individually. And that's why when I see a wine list, I'm like, I look at the European ones, I look up the actual winery, I just Google, well, now I use chat GPT, I just take a screenshot and let it look it up. But there are a lot of wineries that, you know, and sometimes don't even say that they're organic, but they'll say that they, you know, use sustainable pesticides and minimal intervention in the fields. And so those are things to look for.

But I love Sandra, that you are into wine as well. And that you are a winemaker. I'm dying to know again, how you actually do that. Any thoughts from you, Barry?

Barry Conrad
So no, that's awesome that you make wine. That's not, that's not something that I expected you to say when I was reading through your question and like initially, it's just so impressive. And also we'd love to hear more about how you even fell into that or how you, yeah, tell us more that's so inspiring and cool. And I'm totally team wine all about it.

Thank you so much for your, again, for your passion and enthusiasm and your curiosity, and I have no doubt you're going to find, find your merger with, with your fasting and your eating and yeah, keep us posted, please. And thank you so much, Sandra.

Melanie Avalon
I agree. And also Barry, we should have a wine someday, make a wine someday, like a co-brand.

Barry Conrad
Yes, of course. We must. That'd be amazing. That'd be so cool.

Melanie Avalon
Maybe we can like find a pre-existing, you know, organic wine place that we like and like partner with them and do like a private label situation. That is so cool.

Barry Conrad
I would love that. Because I love my wine, you love your wine, why not?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. All right. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
I thought you'd never ask.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man. All right. So this portion of the show is where we emphasize the importance of the eating part of your fasting, not just the fasting because so much of the magic from fasting comes from the actual eating window and the choices that you make. And it's not just about that. It's also about the community and the vibes and all the things, especially given everything we talked about in the show about the complexities of people eating.

So we like to pick a restaurant to showcase and talk about how we would break our fast. So Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?

Barry Conrad
Today's restaurant, and just also ignore the first Linked ML that was from last week. This is the new Link.

Today's restaurant that I have for us is another NYC special called The Grill, and I've just sent you the Linked ML. And why this place is really good is located in the legendary Seagram Building. One of the most famous dining rooms in the world is a tribute to mid-century New York fine dining, dramatic tableside service and classic dishes, fully a la carte with lobster, prime rib, indulgent situations, apparently in a monumental cellar built for serious collectors in wine connoisseurs, and the vibe is meant to be theatrical, glamorous, grand, one of the most impressive rooms in America. So I reckon we should take a look at this menu. It looks so beautiful. It does. It really does. Look how grand it is.

Melanie Avalon
I'm looking at the the lighting looks on point.

Barry Conrad
And you know what you said, what did you say last week or the other week when you said, would you have really bad food and really good lighting or really bad lighting and really good food? And what did you say?

Melanie Avalon
I'd rather have really good lighting and really bad food.

Barry Conrad
But this plays to us against both.

Melanie Avalon
I know. They have a dress code too, so no shorts, no open-toed shoes or tank tops, no athletic wear, no baseball caps, and they can turn you away if you are not dressed for the occasion.

Barry Conrad
I like that though.

Melanie Avalon
I do too.

Barry Conrad
I think it's good. It sets a president, sets a standard and you know what you're in for. You know what I mean? Melanie Avalon, what is peaking your interest here?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I know why you picked this restaurant.

Barry Conrad
Was that?

Melanie Avalon
because it starts with oysters, clams, etc.

Barry Conrad
You haven't had clams, right? Have you told me this before? You haven't.

Melanie Avalon
I have not, which is wild because, yeah, and I forgot, are they like scallops at all? I always feel like they're like scallops, but they're not.

Barry Conrad
They're very similar to scallops, very similar consistency and taste. Yeah, they're really good. You have to do it. Pop your clam sherry. It's really good. It's really delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Well, maybe we can get some of those for the table and I can try them because they have little neck clams with Tabasco relish. I definitely want some house cured salmon from the first section. I would be curious about the selection of continental ham.

What is that? What is goose terrine? It's a pate made from goose meat.

Speaker 3
Oh, that looks good. So just the bread of some sort, right? Or cracker.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, it's often stuffed into the goose neck casing. Interesting. Yeah, so what are you getting from the first? Are you getting some of the oysters?

Barry Conrad
What do you mean? I don't like oysters.

Oh, good. I know. I love oysters. I'll get the Montauk Pearl oysters. Definitely going to get a dozen of those babies. There's some Nantucket Bay scallops. I'm surprised you didn't get any scallops, Mel, as well.

Melanie Avalon
We've talked about this. I eat so many scallops like as my dinner.

I don't really want, but well, like I would never get them as my, I don't want to say never, but I would probably never get them as my entree. But if it's like an appetizer, yeah, that could be fun. We can get some of those.

Barry Conrad
Yes, we got the Montauk Pearl oysters on the half shell, some Nantucket-based colops, Melanie's got the little neck clams, the cured salmon, and I reckon that ham looks pretty enticing. I reckon because that makes me think of mustard.

Do you ever have mustard with your ham as well, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I don't I don't eat a lot of ham. I don't know that. I mean, not since I was like little was like a sandwich with ham and mustard. Actually, I didn't eat mustard back then.

But that's when I would eat like mayonnaise and ham and turkey. Mayonnaise is such a polarizing food. What do you mean? Like people either like people hate mayonnaise.

Barry Conrad
How can you hate it? What's the hate about it?

Melanie Avalon
People either like it or they hate it, but people get like grossed out by mayonnaise.

Barry Conrad
Okay, this is my thing. If you give me a warm sandwich that's been in the backseat of a car with mayonnaise on the chicken or the egg in the sandwich, it's a hard no and it's grossed out.

But if it's chilled and it's fresh out of the fridge or out of the pantry, yeah, sign me up. It's so good.

Whole egg mayonnaise? Yes.

Melanie Avalon
It's funny, I always had it on all my sandwiches, kind of like I liked it, but it kind of just like, it also kind of like grossed me out. But I liked it.

We made it through the first section. They're using the right terminology, assorted appetizers. Okay, let me look here. Oh, I know what I want. What? Steak and anchovy tartar.

Do you like anchovies?

Barry Conrad
I love anchovies. Have you ever had anchovies on?

Melanie Avalon
I actually don't know if I've had anchovies.

Barry Conrad
If you try them on sourdough, okay, just go with me here. So you get a fresh loaf of sourdough, slice it up, put them under the broiler in the oven just so they're not nice and crispy. Put some like cream cheese on there with some anchovies. So good, so delicious, so refreshing. Highly recommend it.

Melanie Avalon
I need to go to Whole Foods and buy some anchovies because I don't think I've ever tried them. So I don't know that I... Are they really really salty though?

Can I get like a low salt version? I just feel like it's gonna be really salty.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure that they would be maybe salty or to you because you don't add salt to your food, but they're not overly salty. Like regular seafood salty, if that makes sense, if you know what I mean.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they're just so they're so often like in cans. So it's like, you know, I bet there's like, I'm gonna go to Whole Foods again, and I'm going to look at all the anchovies and I'm gonna get some.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure there's some in jars, there are canned ones, but there's bespoke or gourmet jarred ones as well.

Melanie Avalon
Are you ready? Do they taste fishy?

Barry Conrad
Oh, come on. Okay, listeners, if you hear this, can you please weigh in on this comment? Can seafood taste fishy? No, that's the answer.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to make this a poll in the Facebook group, because I try to post one thing a day, and this will be a great poll. So listeners, go join.

I mean, the poll is going to be way in the past by the time you listen to this, but join IF Biohackers and find this poll and add your vote, which is, I don't know how to phrase it though. Wait, what am I asking? I'm asking, what am I asking? I'm asking, is fishy a appropriate adjective to describe fish?

Barry Conrad
No, it's not.

Melanie Avalon
Yes it is because and do and is it good or bad like i'm i'll have chat help me come up with this poll but we're gonna settle this once and for all.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to see what people say because it's ridiculous if they say that it can be fishy because it's from the ocean.

Melanie Avalon
No, but like, but sometimes it's fishy and sometimes it's not. And when it is, it's not good.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, tell me what taste fishy so that

Melanie Avalon
This is why I can't do oysters because they taste fishy. They literally taste like fish. Fishy, fishy.

Barry Conrad
That can be changed. I definitely think you can finally find voices that you enjoy. I'm confident that will happen one day. I really am.

Melanie Avalon
We are on our first meal together i will we have to go somewhere that has oysters and i will try them and you will watch me not like them and i will be validated okay super gonna get some soup.

Barry Conrad
Actually, I'll do the blue crab gumbo. That looks pretty good. And I reckon in a place like this, it's going to really be great.

Melanie Avalon
being good. There's another soup on there. I have no idea what that word is. What is that word? What is that word? Caviar? What is that word? Vichy? Sois?

Barry Conrad
Vichy Swaz.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, fishy sois. Creamy, savory soup made from pureed leeks, potatoes, onions, and cream. That sounds good. Minus the caviar.

Hmm. Actually, and the caviar. That sounds yummy. I'm not getting it, but sounds good. Salad. Would you like a salad?

Barry Conrad
I can go with that a solid in this instance.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you don't ever really order a salad, do you?

Barry Conrad
Well, I actually, okay, when I was in LA recently, I actually ordered this amazing shrimp salad. It was really good with giant shrimp in it.

That was really good, like a Cobb salad. Prawns or shrimp? It said shrimp. So unless they were giving me fake news on that menu, they said shrimp. They were pretty massive too, really big.

Melanie Avalon
Was the head on them?

Barry Conrad
No, they were peeled and no head, sans head, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Speaking of, now we are entering the entrees, which they don't say entree anywhere, but we have options between

Barry Conrad
mains.

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh. Options between seafood, chops and birds, prime-aged steaks, trolley service. Okay. Oh my goodness. So many options. Okay. Let me take this in. Let me have a look-see.

Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting, but I'll wait for you, ladies first.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, now we have to, we don't influence each other with our choices.

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, but we do like a lot of the same things, actually.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I have to look up some of these. What is a larded squab? I've never heard of that in my entire life.

Is it a bird? It's got to be a bird. Whoa. Oh my goodness. Guess what? What? I just Googled it and for whatever reason, it freaked out the AI.

Speaker 3
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm going to send you a screenshot. Look at this.

And for listeners, type in larder. Oh, type in, well, I spelled it wrong. Oh, larder. Wait, does larder mean to say something over and over and over? Wait, did you see the

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I did see that. That's really interesting and just kept on kind of malfunctioned.

Melanie Avalon
The AI like freaked out. I tried to type in alerted squab. And it told me it said squab is a young tender and and and and and and and and and and and and

Barry Conrad
It sounds like a almost like, just get out of my way, you ladded squab. It sounds like, it sounds like a, I don't know, like a, you know, something you call someone.

Melanie Avalon
I'm sending you the full thing. It's a baby pigeon known for its tender, dark, and flavorful meat, often compared to duck. Oh, wow. Oh, and it's whole grilled? So is it like the entire pigeon? That's intriguing.

And they have venice and Cumberland. Do you know what is Cumberland? Oh, it's a sauce.

Speaker 3
Okay, that looks great.

Melanie Avalon
So I'm going to go with, oh, they have a whole grilled young chicken as well. So many options.

I'm going to go with, I know what I'm getting for dessert from this menu. For my actual entree, though, I think I might get the larded squab because I've never seen that before in my entire life. And I like that it's whole. It's whole grilled with preserved orange. So I'll get like everything on the side, but I'm just very intrigued. So I think I'll get that. And then what are you getting?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the triple lamb chops, curried flavors, minced jelly, and then I'm also going to get lobster a la Newberg from the seafood because I love lobster so much and I love lamb so much. And we don't have a lot of lamb here in, I haven't tried lamb here in the US yet, so yet to find, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
And then I think I'm also going to get, with the larded squab, I think I might also get a filet mignon as well, which you can get peppered, Florentine, or Peconic. I don't know what that means. Oh, it's a place in New York. That's confusing.

I'm not sure what that means. Yeah, so I'm going to get a filet mignon as well, cooked as rare as they will bring it please, although I am going to inquire with our captain about the additional cuts of American beef that they have. But yeah, so I'm going to go with the steak route and the larded squab. Or maybe the venison. Depends. I might get venison. It's actually, I go backtrack. I'm going to get venison, Cumberland, but I'm going to ask for the sauce on the side, and then I'm going to get the larded squab. Okay, final answer.

Barry Conrad
Yep. And I forgot to add potatoes to mine. I'm going to add some dilled potatoes, which is-

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, you're adding potatoes?

Barry Conrad
I love potatoes so much.

Melanie Avalon
You don't normally add things.

Barry Conrad
Well, you know what, I was reminded of this because I made steak the other night from ButcherBox again. Surprise, surprise.

But I always used to make these in Australia. Baby potatoes, sauteed, and like, it's not something that you would have necessary, because it's kind of fried in butter, and it's just really crispy and delicious. I kind of got the recipe from my mom, and South Africa is really, really good with steak. So that's making me think of that.

Melanie Avalon
This also made me realize, because the description, I realize now those aren't options. So the Flamin' Yawn was peppered slash and Florentine slash Peconic.

So it was just, I thought it was like you choose, but, so the potatoes are cottage fries, hash brown, O'Brien whipped, dilled. And then dessert.

Barry Conrad
There's a dessert menu. So I'm gonna go to dessert. Here we go. Ah, yeah, for sure

Melanie Avalon
Can I guess what you're going to get? Sure. Go ahead.

Well, it's interesting that they put under ice cream, they put buttered rum, baked Alaska, because that's like an actual situation, not just like ice cream. Are you going to get that, the baked Alaska?

Barry Conrad
I do love Baked Alaska, which I had a, I can't say the other restaurant because it's conflict of restaurants, but I had another amazing restaurant in New York. And I'm also going to get the crawler, which is like a kind of like this fried donut situation.

I've never had it before, but I just looked it up. It looks great.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, if I know what it was, I might have guessed that. Something different.

And then I'm going to get for dessert the entree that I picked, which is the, I would like the Dover sole because it's like a very light white fish. And I feel like white fish is like my favorite form of dessert.

Barry Conrad
It is pretty good, not gonna lie. Whitefish is very, very good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so grilled Riviera horse rat. Oh, I love horseradish horseradish mignon and Neptune's crown. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Any drinks? It's quite an extensive menu. There's lots here.

Melanie Avalon
I will let you look at the drinks, I'm going to look at the full wine list.

Barry Conrad
Well, I do love a good margaritas. I know what I like.

I'm going to get a margarita. Patroon Reposada, Caracao Lime, and also a, the grill old-fashioned because I like to have something from the place that I'm at.

Melanie Avalon
Are these? Okay, on the y-list, is it the prices, the like, the column at the end?

Barry Conrad
Yes, the column at the end, I believe, of the prices.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. They have, yes. Okay. So the price is on these wines. They have like an almost $8,000 bottle. And so this makes me like hankerback or hankerback or remember, reminisce on Sandra's email because like, this is a situation where like some of these wines are so expensive and, and that doesn't necessarily mean that they're like organic or you know, like it's kind of crazy.

It makes you wonder like what makes a wine become like this. I should probably know this more based on my wine education, but in any case it looks like they have a very extensive wine list. So I would get one of their French, Oh, they have orange wines too. I might get an orange wine. I might get like a French Rose or French red, but there's a lot of options. So I feel confident that I can find something on this list for sure.

Barry Conrad
So many options.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Are you gonna go?

Barry Conrad
have to go now. Now that I've gone to one here, I've definitely wet my appetite to just keep trying these out.

Melanie Avalon
Do you ever question so something I do like my habit because I tend to go to like the drink situation more than the dinner I go to I love going to like bars and steakhouses. Do you do that?

Barry Conrad
You know what? Not like intentionally I have done it and they are pretty good because you get to feel the vibe out without actually eating there. But yeah, maybe I should give that a go. you

Melanie Avalon
I do it, that's like one of my go tos because let me sell you on it. You get to see the, like you said, see the restaurant, feel out the vibe and the state, especially like steakhouses and like fine dining restaurants, they will have really good wines.

So you get to like go to a bar, but actually have like a really decent wine selection. So I love, I love restaurant bars, like steakhouse bars or like fine dining bars.

Barry Conrad
Okay. You sold me. I'm going to give it a go.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, start doing it. This is like, this is like my habit. Like this is like what I do.

Barry Conrad
And Harry, what's your process of finding it? You just sort of look for like Google reviews, would you look on Instagram or word of mouth or all of the above?

Melanie Avalon
I look for the, like, do they have, like, Michelin stars or, like, you know, awards and then the wine lists and the vibe. So the wine, the awards, the vibe, and then I'm good.

Speaker 3
Yeah, awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it really expands your opportunity for bar options. Because a lot of people look for just bars, but there's a whole world of restaurants with bars. And it's a whole other world that you can go to.

Barry Conrad
That's actually so true. You're actually right. Yeah, you're right. You forget about that. You think, yeah, you're right, you're right.

Melanie Avalon
I actually like, that's almost more my preference. Like I almost look for that first and then other bars.

And if you are eating, you can normally order food at the bar too. So it's like, it's a way to like, especially if it's a place where like it's hard to get reservations, you can just go to the bar and like try the food, see the vibe and then come back later if you want.

Barry Conrad
Good hack actually that's a good point.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I should talk about this more.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, now I'm thinking about that.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Well, good find. So fun. Listeners, thank you so much for being here with us.

If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, please, please do. You can email us at questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 473. Those will have links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And then you can follow us on Instagram. We are, I have podcast, I have Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. Yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go.

Barry Conrad
You're all awesome. Thank you so much once again for listening and spending time with us and we'll talk to you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and happy travels this weekend, Barry.

Barry Conrad
Thanks so much, Mel, and have an awesome week.

Melanie Avalon
I'll talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intramusian Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recon host by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Apr 27

#471 – A Secret Way IF Supports Metabolism, Metabolism Boosting Foods, Meals To Take To Work, Spice Up Your Diet For Fat Loss, Body Fat That Burns Fat, Fat Burning Peppers, Polyphenols, Ginger And More, White Vs Brown Fat Benefits, Cooking At Home, And More!

Welcome to Episode 471 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

LINKS

STUDIES: Intermittent Fasting: A Metabolically Focused Therapeutic Strategy for Obesity

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

LEESA

SUNLIGHTEN

Sunlighten is a leader in infrared sauna technology, delivering targeted wavelengths that support cellular energy, detoxification, relaxation, cardiovascular health, and longevity. With ultra-low EMF, no off-gassing materials, and over 25 years of innovation, it’s a luxurious, science-backed way to support your health from the comfort of your own home! (Melanie is obsessed with the solo unit!) Get up to $1,600 off + FREE shipping at get.sunlighten.com/ifpodcast

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 471 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 471 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing really, really great. I have decided to, well, it's taken a while, but back in Australia, I used to do volunteering at this place called our big kitchen. And basically, you know, because I love my food, like the cook was just like a bit of a kitchen hand in the kitchen, helping to prepare meals and whatnot for homeless people or less fortunate people. And I finally found a place here that I could do that at. So I'm super excited to get, super excited to get started this week. So I'm excited.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, that actually relates to what I was going to talk about.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. So yeah, I guess no one really mind me saying North Brooklyn angels. So it is, I was just walking down the street and this blue vans slash bus that were parked handing out meals to people. And I was, I stood there and I was like, this could be a place I could ask about volunteering.

And then this man kindly goes, would you like a meal, sir? I'm like, Oh, that was really nice. Like, no, no, I just want to,

Melanie Avalon
I can see the light there.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. It's like, oh no, I mean, it looked really good, but it's just like, I'm here to, I'm here to see if I can volunteer, like how can I get involved?

But it was so nice. I just love, I just love seeing people and helping people help other people. It's just, it's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, this is so great. So first of all, I love what you're saying about like as volunteering in general is awesome.

And if you can combine it with something you're passionate about, like, you know, that's even better. Because you you know, you love food and all the things. Do you actually cook the meals?

Barry Conrad
Yeah. So you can either do what I saw them doing, which was be parked at different points of the city handing out the meals, or you can actually go to the kitchen.

So I'm going to go to the kitchen to help repair the food and pack the meals. Cause I like that too.

Melanie Avalon
And so, like I said, this literally relates to what I was going to talk about in the beginning, which is I was going to just have a reflection moment of appreciation because, you know, this show is all about intermittent fasting and the benefits of fasting. And also, so much of the importance of that is the food aspect.

And I so appreciate how talented and into food you are, because I wanted, like, this is the type of, I'm just going to read, I'm going to paraphrase, I'm going to read like a small part of the text. This is like the type of text I get from Barry. He was talking about like a party, like a dinner party. And he said, quote, I made homemade ricotta and honey ravioli, followed by crisp skin salmon with burnt orange butter emulsion and arugula and then tiramisu. Like, what? That's so intense. I think it's so cool that you, you know, OK, when you're doing these meals that you do at home, do you like, where do you get the recipes? Do you get them online? And like, how long does it take you to do you have to go? Do you have most of the ingredients for them already? Or do you have to go shop and like get all the ingredients? I'm just like curious how it all works when at your home.

Barry Conrad
Well, thank you so much for the compliment. That's really sweet that you would say that. And genuinely, I just love it.

I love cooking. I love preparing food. It's relaxing for me because I have to focus on just that, so that's great. Lately, we've been getting butcher box. Shout out to butcher box. And so there's lots of quality food in there and then sort of design the recipes around that or order butcher box according to the recipes you want to do. And then yeah, just go for it. It doesn't take that long. It depends on what you're doing, but I love it. I love hosting. I love food and hosting. I love it so much.

Melanie Avalon
Do you, while you're cooking the food, struggle with, like, being hungry during your fast? Or do you, like, do you taste as you cook?

Barry Conrad
Well, if I'm cooking for a dinner party, I'm, my window's open. I'm not going to do like, luckily I'm not a chef where I have to work all day.

And if I was fasting, it would be quite tricky. So as soon as I start cooking, I just start my window, like opening my window. Then I don't try to wait until a certain time, depending on what it is. But most of the time I'll just start eating. It's fine.

Melanie Avalon
amazing yeah i just want to see this process oh wait i'm sorry just one more question how long does it take to to cook everything

Barry Conrad
Well, for three courses, you know, something like that can be like maybe up to a couple hours because there's lots of waiting and maybe stopping and then storing and chilling something and putting it back, all that kind of stuff. It depends what it is, but between an hour and two, but it's fun.

There's music playing. There's wine in hand or cocktail in hand. I might duck over to the piano and play a little piano, go back to the food, all that kind of thing, you know, it's great.

Melanie Avalon
Does it ever not turn out like what you cooked?

Barry Conrad
Not yet, thankfully, but not yet. But it's also, yeah, it gets like crunchy sometimes.

It's like, oh man. Like maybe especially if you run out of time where you think everything's gonna take a lot shorter than it does, and sometimes the oven lies to you and it's not gonna take the temperatures wrong or whatnot and you have to just adjust.

Melanie Avalon
This is so cool. And are you still filming Banter with BC now that you're over here?

Barry Conrad
Yeah on that, so launching season 4 here in New York, I finally actually applied.

Melanie Avalon
Oh wow, season four.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so I have a place that I'm actually going to on Thursday, which I don't know if the time even matters, but our Thursday email this week, and then Aussie owned hospitality group. So they have a couple of different venues because I wanted to keep that Aussie connection, Aussie in America connection, not just like just an American place. So that's exciting.

It took me a while to find a venue, but I think I've got my videographer and if I like this place in Thursday, then I'm going to use that. So yes, back into it.

Melanie Avalon
Yay, congrats! How can people best watch it and follow it?

Barry Conrad
Yes. So Bantu at BC, you can find on Spotify, Apple Music, all podcast platforms, also on my Instagram, which is at Barry underscore Conrad, or YouTube as well.

So I love if you could watch it as well, because you see us eating and breaking bread literally and talking and drinking and just, you know, all that messy stuff, just the human connection, you don't just have to listen to it.

Melanie Avalon
amazing are you gonna be do you have guests lined up already or

Barry Conrad
I've got a guest list. Let's see if I can... There's some people in mind that I really want.

And it's exciting here, Mel, because it's people in America. There's just so much more people here that I could invite to be on the show. So it's going to probably look a lot different. So I'm really excited for the coming weeks, I should say, coming weeks and months.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to have to brainstorm because, you know, I've had so many guests on the show and I think a lot of them live in New York, so I'm going to have to brainstorm. Really? Yeah. People who might be good for you.

Barry Conrad
who are fun and who would eat with me as well and eat and drink with me.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. All the things. Awesome.

Barry Conrad
What about you? Also, thank you so much. That was very sweet. How's your week been? How are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
I am good. So by the time this comes out, because this comes out end of April, right now I'm in the last hurrying, finishing up to launch Glow Coffee. So speaking of food and drinks that should hopefully be available by the time this airs, I mean, I'm sure it will be by April, knock on wood. So friends, you can go to glowcoffeeco.com. This is the ideal fasting coffee. We found beans that are super high in CGA, which is the primary antioxidant in coffee. It's organic. It's from a completely female-led farm in Colombia. It's super sustainable. It tastes so delicious. It is the way to glow inside and out.

So to get it, go to glowcoffeeco.com. I guess the only reason it might not be up is if we launch and then we realize... Because that's something I'm really nervous about. So with my supplement line, I was working with a production company. So I didn't have any concerns about order fulfillment and the mechanics of everything. But this is the first... And same with my EMF Blocking Products line. Everything I've done has been working with brands or my brands have been working with pre-existing production partners. This is the first time me and my product. So we're literally going to be order fulfilling ourselves at the beginning until we move to a 3PL. So it's... I'm scared. No, I'm not scared. I have a lot of anticipation.

Very excited anticipation, but it's going to be... It'll be interesting to see how it works with order fulfillment and everything. So my point is if we launch and then we're like, oh wow, this is not what we thought. And we might have to recalibrate. That would be the only reason that there might be like a lag, but it should be up glowcoffeeco.com. And assuming it's not still the launch special, you should be able to use the code IF Podcast to get a discount on that. Which speaking of discounts, ButcherBox, I love ButcherBox. I'm obsessed with them. They make it easy to get affordable access to sustainable meat and seafood, you know, organic chicken, grass-fed beef. It's delicious. I love, love, love their steaks. So for that, go to ButcherBox.com slash IF Podcast and there you will get whatever awesome special they're having right now.

So for right now, for example, they're... Right now, if you were doing it while we're recording, you could get free steak for a year. Free top sirloin steak for a year. Oh, they have top sirloin steak? I haven't tried. I'm going to have to email them. See if I can get some of that. Free chicken breast for a year and free ground beef for a year. I'm going to literally email them.

Barry Conrad
That's so good, aren't they, Melanie? They're really, really good.

Melanie Avalon
It's so good. I'm a steak. This is funny. Okay, this is really funny to me.

So not to go on too much of a tangent, but people will talk about restaurants and how it was the most amazing steak or not good steak. But a lot of times, they have the best steak and they make it about the restaurant. That said, it's really the sourcing of the steak that is the driving factor. I mean, assuming you can cook it correctly, it's where the steak is coming from that really determines what it tastes like. So I always just find it interesting that the focus is so often on the restaurant having good steak when really it's ripe, but where is the steak coming from? What farm did it come from? Is it organic? Is it regenerative? And why does it taste that way? Where's it coming from? So I think it's really important to have transparency of what you're eating, which again, butcher box, it's traceable with their meat.

Barry Conrad
Also, Mel, can I just say, it's so good to finally be able to be having all these things that I've heard you talk about for so long now, you know, butcher box elements, like it's so good. Optimizes.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because when Barry was in Australia, it was a little difficult to get stuff over there. Yeah, no, it's really exciting. Shall we jump into some things?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so to start things off we have a study and I'm so excited about this study

Barry Conrad
I'm excited that you're excited because you talked about this last week.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I did. I teased it. It is called Intermittent Fasting, a Metabolically Focused Therapeutic Strategy for Obesity. And by the way, that title tells nothing about what it's about.

So basically, this study was published in Nutrients, January 23, 2026, so relatively new. The purpose of the study is they were looking at the role of intermittent fasting and how it affects weight loss, obesity, all the things. And the three types of intermittent fasting protocols that they looked at was alternate day fasting, ADF, periodic fasting, 5.2, which sounds kind of similar to ADF, so not sure what the difference was there, and then time restricted eating. And so what they talk about is they start by giving an overview of fasting and why it's really beneficial for weight loss, in particular, the whole metabolic switch that we talk about. So basically, it makes our bodies switch from using glucose or, quote, sugar to fatty acids and ketones. And this switching back and forth is one of the main reasons that people talk about intermittent fasting working. And they talk about how there's all these studies about how intermittent fasting yields weight loss. I'm just laughing thinking about the study last week where, okay, so this is like a study that came out literally within a couple weeks of that other study from last week, which listeners go check out episode 470 if you want to hear me going on the soapbox. But that study was talking about how intermittent fasting has no benefit and doesn't create weight loss. And yet we have this other review here saying the complete opposite. So kind of silly.

In any case, the thing that made this study really unique is they talk about something that is another reason that intermittent fasting is so good for our metabolism and helps us lose weight. And it's not any of the things I just mentioned.

And that is its effect on fat tissue remodeling. So we've talked before on the show about the difference between white adipose tissue and brown adipose tissue. So that's white fat and brown fat, essentially. White fat is what most people think of when they think of fat. So it's the fat that stores energy. It can be very inflammatory. It releases inflammatory cytokines. An excess of it is connected to problematic health outcomes. We don't want a lot of it. Brown fat is also fat. However, it kind of does the exact opposite because it actually helps you burn calories rather than store calories. So the way brown fat works is it's super high in mitochondria, which are the powerhouses, the cellular... See, there we are, the cellular... See, if I'm going fast, I can't say it easily. The cellular energy production part of our cells. And brown fat actually creates heat to burn calories and it warms us up. So that's why cold exposure can really increase brown fat because you need brown fat to keep you warm. It actually works by doing something called non-shivering thermogenesis, meaning one way to make yourself warm is to shiver, like physically shake.

Melanie Avalon
But if you have brown fat, you don't shiver. The fat itself just literally burns calories and creates heat. So we love brown fat because it helps with your body composition. It helps with weight loss, all the things.

And what this study talks about is that intermittent fasting seems to cause white fat to start to turn into brown fat. It actually becomes this in-between state called beige fat. So the browning of the white fat can create beige fat, which is like half white fat, half brown fat. Basically what they propose is that this thermogenic metabolic response of intermittent fasting could be one of the main reasons that we have all these weight loss benefits and these metabolism benefits. And nobody really talks about this. So that's why I love that. And then what I also love is it doesn't even end there. That would have been enough for me.

I would have been happy. And yet the second part of their article or the study is they talk about the importance of the feeding window with this. And they say that basically, so yes, you can get this thermogenic effect from fasting, from brown fat, and you can support a thermogenic effect when you eat. Because there's also diet induced thermogenesis, meaning when you eat, you burn calories from creating heat from digesting the food. And there are certain foods that you can eat to increase this. So they are protein rich food. So out of all the macronutrients, which is carbs, fat, and protein, protein up to 20 to 30% of the quote, calories and protein is released as heat just by digesting it. So that's diet induced thermogenesis. So again, a high protein diet. So again, this shows that a calorie isn't a calorie because if you eat like a hundred calories of protein, like 30% of that, you might burn just digesting it compared to other macronutrients where it's way less.

Like I think the thermogenic effect of fats is zero to 5%, so way less. So fats, you might not burn anything or you might burn like 5%. Carbs are five to 15%. But then again, like I said, protein is 20 to 30, which is crazy. And then they say that you can add in thermogenic bioactive compounds. So you can add things to your food that will further increase the thermogenic effects. So that is capsaicin, which is chili peppers, so like, you know, hot foods. And so those increase fat oxidation and energy expenditure. They talk about, okay, so green tea, catechins and caffeine, both increase energy expenditure and fat oxidation. And then they talk about a compound that actually also activates brown fat. And I hadn't heard of it before, but it's called grains of paradise, extracts of grains of paradise. Yeah. So there are some extracts you can add that will increase brown adipose tissue. And then two more categories of things that we're eating. So the type of fat can, I was mentioning that fat has like a zero to 5% thermogenic effect. The exceptions here are medium trained triglycerides, so MCTs that we talk about a lot on the show, those are rapidly oxidized and they have the highest probably thermogenic effect of fats.

Melanie Avalon
So their thermogenic effect, oh my goodness, some studies have shown over a 50% increase in diet induced thermogenesis when paired with foods like chili, they basically really can increase the overall thermogenic potential of the meal. And then when it comes to other types of fat, so polyunsaturated fats, especially omega-3s, while they aren't necessarily like super thermogenic, they support the mitochondria as efficiency and fat oxidation.

So they actually encourage your mitochondria to burn fat rather than store it compared to like omega-6s, which can do the opposite. And then lastly, polyphenol rich and anthocyanin rich foods are, they also might increase energy expenditure when you're eating. So I mean, when I think of polyphenol rich foods, I think of things like blueberries and like red wine. The example they give was something like something else I hadn't heard of, which was McCreeberry, but that actually also induces browning of white adipose tissue in animal bottles. And then if you want to avoid things for thermogenic effect, so highly processed and refined foods, those make digestion really easy. So they don't have a very high thermogenic effect and not easy, not in a good way. They're just so quickly digested that you don't really burn much doing it. And they also make you not as full. So high glycemic foods suppress fat oxidation. They do mention alcohol, which I thought was interesting because they said minimal thermogenic effect and pairs fat oxidation and promotes liver fat accumulation.

My one caveat here is I think that's a little bit misleading because alcohol is actually highly thermogenic in that when you're having it, it requires a lot to burn it. That said, it does stop fat oxidation while you're having it. So it is going to put you into while you're having a fat storing mode rather than fat burning. And then again, they say large late night meals. But the reason that they don't like that is they say it misaligns with circadian rhythms and reduces glucose tolerance and thermogenesis. But like we talked about before, I think in the context of a one meal a day situation where this is what you're doing daily and that's your fasting pattern, I don't think that's the same thing as eating and then also having large late night meals.

So yeah, so basically long story short, fasting itself helps turn white fat into brown fat. So that you burn more energy. And then when you eat, you can make conscious choices with what you're eating to further increase thermogenesis. So you can just be increasing fat burning like all the time, essentially. So that was a lot.

Barry Conrad
What a study, what a fine, awesome study Mel. I think one of the things that really stood out about this was the thermogenesis situation that the idea that I have, you know, isn't just about the burning the stored fat, but like increasing the heat production in the body and even that, you know, the talking about the brown fat activation and even the white fat becoming more thermogenically active is amazing. I never ever thought about that before.

I also loved the protein angle, of course, and that essentially, you know, you're, if you break your fast with a high protein meal, you're not just refueling, you're increasing the energy cost of that, of the digestion, which is amazing. I wonder if that's one of the more clinically relevant sort of pieces compared to like, like, you know, the chili, the chili situation, I wonder what the percentage of that is in terms of like adding chili and stuff for your food. How, because I've heard people say that before, like, if you add chili to your meal, you increase your metabolism or like spicy food, boost your metabolism. I wonder how real that effect is in the context of fasting.

Melanie Avalon
Do you mean like how much you have to add to the meal or what do you mean like in the context of fasting?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, like, you know, how much you have to add to a meal in terms of like breaking your, when you break your fast and you add that to your meal, that first meal after opening your window, if that, you know.

Melanie Avalon
I would assume it's like normal amounts that you would be like, if it's like a spicy meal, like normal amounts. They don't give the exact, let me see if they give them the amounts here.

So capsaicin from Chili Peppers, let me see what they, I'm gonna look at the study that they referenced. Let's see. The study they referenced was called Could Capsaicin Always Help to Support Weight Management? And it's from 2013, November. Let's see. Oh, it's a review study. So their analysis showed that ingesting it prior to a meal reduced, oh, that's interesting, reduced energy intake by 309 calories. The minimum dose, here's the answer for you, minimum dose of two milligrams of capsaicinoids is needed to contribute, which appears, let's see, to.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because even like how much if you if you're throwing on some chopped chili or even some ground chili powder or some

Melanie Avalon
So it looks like two milligrams of capsaicinoids in a jalapeno would be one average jalapeno or a cayenne pepper. It would be 0.3 to 0.7 grams of cayenne powder, so not that much. And berry hot peppers like habanero, it would be like 0.1 to 0.2 grams, so just a tiny sliver. Yeah, so it looks like it's about small amounts.

I think it's like normal amounts that people would be adding to their food.

Barry Conrad
Wow. The thing about the meal timing in terms of later, that was interesting again, how that's come up, you know, and that it seems to prefer the early time restricted situation rather than later for better metabolic effects kind of thing.

So that, I wonder how, yeah, if that's just the circadian thing they're concerned of, or do you think it, I don't think it really matters if, yeah, for someone like you and I are doing a OMAD situation on the consistent basis.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And I can actually all expand more on what they said about that before I leave that section, because I was mentioning that one I hadn't heard of before, the Grains of Paradise. So that's a part of the ginger family. So that's good to know, because when I think of these thermogenic compounds, I was hoping like the ginger family was there because I eat so much ginger.

Let me see what they say about the late night. So they just reference one study, they say large late night meals misaligned with circadian rhythms. Oh, so you know what, this is interesting. Okay, so this is so helpful. I'm glad you asked that. And that we're looking into this more because when I was saying that I was assuming they were talking about it in the context of intermittent fasting, but they're not they're referencing this other study, which was called metabolic effects of late dinner and healthy volunteers, a randomized crossover clinical trial. And in that study, there's no fasting in this study, they're looking at a late dinner versus a routine dinner. That's all they were looking at. So basically, they're looking at people who are okay, so what they're referencing for the late night dinner is looking at eating all throughout the day, and then either eating like your dinner earlier or your dinner later. Like that's what they're referencing. So that's a very, very different situation from an intermittent fasting one meal a day situation. I'm actually surprised that they would reference that when they're all talking about, you know, a fasting context, it's kind of weird that they would reference a non fasting context for that. But because like literally the section starts with not all foods support fasting induced benefits. So if you're talking about fasting induced benefits, and then you're going to say what doesn't work, the studies I think should be in the like context of fasting.

Barry Conrad
I reckon if someone's total daily energy expenditure, for example, is 2,000 calories, I wonder how much of that can realistically be influenced by, when you were talking before about thermogenesis and stuff, I wonder what that looks like from a daily caloric intake, how much of that can be affected by just your dietary choices rather than just your resting caloric expenditure. Like if you can really affect it and tweak that.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, what?

Barry Conrad
So, just say if you had like 2000 calories, that's like your maintenance calories. I wonder if beyond just like you're resting and you're not doing anything physically, if you can impact or influence greater fat burning just by your nutritional choices then, like things like chili or things, you know what I mean?

Like I wonder.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you can because I mean, that's what it's that's what it's showing. So like just by changing the food choices, now you're going to when you eat, you're going to, quote, burn calories that you wouldn't have burned if if you hadn't made that dietary choice.

So like, yeah, with all with all those choices. So so when people are eating like refined foods. You're basically just, you know, storing that it's it's so easy for your body to process. And then when you switch over to like a high protein diet. So OK, let's like come up with like a meal that would be super thermogenic. If you had a meal that was like protein and then maybe you made a like a MCT oil based pepper like sauce. And then if you had an add some ginger and then for dessert had like blueberries. I mean, you're going to be like off to the races.

Barry Conrad
I definitely feel hot, like really hot when I'm eating lots of protein. Me too.

Melanie Avalon
Do you? Oh, yeah. For sure. Some nights, I eat only meat, basically, and I'm really hot that night. And if I add MCT oil, that makes me really hot. Do you ever add MCT oil to food?

Barry Conrad
I add a lot of spice to food, not so much MCT oil, but honestly, lots and lots and lots and lots of chili. People will be shocked. I just love spice. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So like when I mentioned those amounts, like how much chili do you use?

Barry Conrad
No, I'm like, you know how sometimes if, for example, if it's in a bottle with, you know, the kind of like a pepper shaker kind of a thing that those kinds of spices, I'll take the lid off and take a teaspoon or two and throw it into the pot rather than like just shake it in like I really like like I'm taking coffee out or something like I'm really I smash it.

Melanie Avalon
You're like the way I am with my ginger and turmeric and lemon powder.

Barry Conrad
Really? The lemon powder, I've not really doubled it that much.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I add lemon powder, ginger, and turmeric, and I do it in massive amounts. Like you said, like spoonfuls.

Barry Conrad
I love too much, but it just kind of stains things. That's the only thing I need to hack for.

Melanie Avalon
My hands are yellow from it. My teeth used to be yellow from it before I had veneers.

Barry Conrad
I love, but I do love ginger as well. It's so good, but yeah, ginger's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Ginger's so good. I've what I've started doing because I do use ginger powder, but now and I still use it now though Because I interviewed I interviewed dr.

Erica Siegel. She has this Stunning gorgeous book called the nourish me kitchen. It's it's like a two book I'm just laughing because it's so heavy. I think she said it's 10 pounds the books and When I met her I was that have I told you this story before no I was at eudaimonia conference the first year they had it and I was at this like vip Like it was like the party like thrown by the founders and like cocktail dresses and wine and and so I met her there And she was carrying around The book we started talking. I was like oh i'll have you on the show and she was like Here's the book like I can give it to you She's like or I can mail it to you and I was like, oh no I'll like take it now It was like 10 pounds and then the whole night I was like and we we we walked far like later we went out to like The the breakers and like it was a long night. So I was carrying around this like Massive book like all night like 10 pound weight essentially. Why am I talking about this? Oh, so in her book, she talks about like the all the benefits of ginger and Like using it fresh and I've started doing that. Do you ever grind fresh ginger?

Barry Conrad
I actually love to get some ginger and just chop it up nice and fine. Just fresh ginger. I love that.

Melanie Avalon
I want to find, cause it's hard. So I've been chopping it and grinding it. I want like listeners, if you know, like the perfect spice grinder that can grind ginger, let me know. Cause I need to get that so that I can more easily.

I've been using my coffee grinder to grind it at night. Really? Yeah. Cause then it makes it into like a, like a paste almost so good.

Barry Conrad
Sometimes you use like the, um, it's not a blender. It's the thing, it's like a tool where you hold it and you sort of, you know, I'm talking about and you can kind of, it has a thing at the end of it. It's like a blend, like a handle mixer thing.

Melanie Avalon
for garlic.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sometimes I do that.

Melanie Avalon
So that's that a garlic press. Yeah. Yes. Okay.

So actually that's what she said in the book was use a garlic press. So I started using a garlic press, but ginger is so hard that like it's very, I mean, it's a good test of your grip strength because, but yeah, I started using the electric one instead, but yeah, it's pretty cool how much agency like you can have over your weight and your metabolism just by making these conscious food choices, you know.

Barry Conrad
I think it's amazing. And also now I'm going to double down on all of the things.

On the pepper. Yeah. On the peppers and the spices on the, on the protein. Cause all of these things help so much thermogenically.

Melanie Avalon
It's so funny. So that's how we're different that way.

I don't like pepper. Really? I don't like spicy stuff. I mean, I love ginger and turmeric, but I don't like, like, I don't seek out. I actually don't remember the last time I had. Maybe I do like it. Maybe I just think I don't.

Barry Conrad
I think you'd like even like hot sauce like just hot I love hot sauce hot any kind of spice It's just so good and satisfying to feel that burn

Melanie Avalon
I do love ginger and turmeric, so maybe, I mean turmeric's not that spicy, but I love horseradish. That's hot. I think we talked about that. That will blind you when you make it, when you grind it.

Barry Conrad
But you were saying something about spice in the past where it's the only, like, animals don't have that, like, they can't taste spice or something.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, humans are the only animals that seek out spicy foods for pleasure. No other animal does this.

Barry Conrad
So fascinating.

Melanie Avalon
Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's like why? We like pain? Endorphins?

Barry Conrad
I like it. I'm not mad.

Melanie Avalon
Would you eat the like, you know, like the ghost pepper and like the ones where it like wipes you out?

Barry Conrad
I have eaten like a whole full on like chili, big pepper before I've done that, just as a dare.

Melanie Avalon
Like a ghost pepper?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's pretty bad. That's just silly though, because that's not fun. It's just like thought.

Melanie Avalon
Fascinating.

Barry Conrad
Or maybe more spice and heat in your diet to come to try, maybe.

Melanie Avalon
spice things up, so fasting will be adding heat to you by turning your white fat into brown fat, and then when you eat, you can keep it going.

Barry Conrad
So great. What a great study, seriously.

Melanie Avalon
So, thank you. All right, shall we look at our listener questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it!

Melanie Avalon
So we have a question from Charlotte, and this is from Facebook. You can ask questions, by the way, in our Facebook group, IF Biohackers. She says, what are the best high-protein meals to bring to work?

What are the best ways to keep food hot or warm so that I don't have to heat up food in the microwave? I wake up at 5.30 a.m. to get ready and commute to my office. I don't get home till 5.30. I find it hard to get home, prepare a meal, and eat so that I can close my eating period by 7 p.m. since I go to bed by 10 p.m., and I like to have a few hours fasting before I go to bed. I also try to get in a quick wait workout and hour walk in the evening. I guess I'm just trying to figure out the best way to manage a typical commuting work day.

Barry Conrad
Wow. Well, Charlotte, first of all, like reading your schedule may be tired in the best way, because that's a monster of a day. Up at 5.30, commuting, working all day, trying to train in the evening, getting your walk-in as well, eating while closing your window by 7, bit by 10, that's a full day, full life.

So, let's start there, I reckon. It's about what's going to be sustainable for you. I do love that you're thinking ahead, though, instead of just winging it every day, which is really good. And, okay, let's tackle the protein meals for work first, I reckon. When you've got that big, long commute and really tight eating window, protein's going to become non-negotiable because it's going to keep you full. And we've talked about this before, the satiety that protein provides, it's going to really, really support your weight training, and I love that you weight train, and it's going to help stabilize your energy, Charlotte, so that you're not crashing at three during those long days. And some of my favorite portable, high-protein meal options, for example, are things that don't feel sad when you're eating out of a container. Like, think like grilled chicken thighs or grilled chicken breasts with some veggies in there, maybe some rice, some steak slices, butcher with a side of salad and some olive oil, some turkey meatballs is a good one. Hard boiled eggs are always something that I love to bag up, and I drizzle some olive oil in there, some salt and pepper with avocado. Greek yogurt's always a win with some blueberries, a scoop of whey protein, some great protein they're mixed in. Cottage cheese is really practical with salts, pepper, even some hearty lentils and chicken soup sort of thing or a chicken bowl. These are all things that can hold up pretty well throughout the day and don't really rely on being super piping hot to be satisfying. So those are just a few things. If you prefer, if you really do have to have warm food, Charlotte, and you don't want a microwave, which a lot of people don't, a good sort of... There's thermo food jars that could be a good thing, the kind that you sort of preheat with boiling water or something like that before you can add it to your hot meal. If you put properly heated food into a preheated thermos in the morning, it can really stay hot for a while. So chili, throwing back to what Melanie's study was about, chili-threaded beef, curry, stir-fry, scrambled eggs even can hold up surprisingly well in those. And that can kind of get rid of the whole microwave situation. Another thing is sort of like flipping the script a little for yourself. So instead of thinking... So Charlotte, instead of thinking like dinner has to be this main prep situation, this main window, what if you maybe batch cook once or twice a week maybe? You could try doing that. Maybe a Sunday evening, you can cook a big tray of protein of sorts. So salmon, beef, chicken, whatever you'd like. And then maybe just portion it out so your weekday doesn't...

Barry Conrad
Your weekday self doesn't have to make these decisions. You know what I mean? Because decision fatigue is real anyway and fasting takes decisions now. But when you're working that much, there's still a lot of decisions to be made, especially after a long commute.

So Charlotte, you said you leave early and get home at 5.30. If you're trying to close your window by 7 and you want to lift and walk in the evening as well, something has to give a little bit. So I reckon either maybe try prep food so it's ready the second you walk in or maybe shift one of those variables a little bit. One idea could also be like having your main meal at work. Is that an option? That could maybe mean breaking your fast around like early afternoon and your biggest protein meal focus meal could be there. If that makes you too tired though, maybe not. But then when you get home, you can train, go for you, walk and have a lighter second meal. That could be something like a protein shake with Greek yogurt and berries, eggs, some spinach. Again, I guess you don't have to do everything every single day, but these are just sort of ideas to help just kind of preempt your massive schedule that you have. Sustainability is going to always beat these massive, heroic efforts daily. That's going to burn you out, Charlotte. So hydration and electrolytes will help as well. Again, it's not about perfection as we always say. Doing something that's sustainable, batch cook, adjust your timing slightly if you need to. Your life is so full. Your plan should support that, I reckon. So if you build a rhythm that works in your busiest days, Charlotte, everything else is going to become much more manageable. Mel, do you have any thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
That was such an epic answer. Thank you.

Yeah, I was actually confused and I've read her question like five times. I'm confused if she is asking us how to eat after or if she's saying that she doesn't eat after and that's why she wants more high protein meals for work. Like I wonder if she's already decided not to eat at home.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I think in the question where she says, I find it hard to get home, prepare a meal and eat so I can close my period at seven.

I feel like so. That's why suggesting, I was suggesting some maybe an earlier time or maybe preparing the food ahead of time so that when she gets home, she doesn't have to cook it. You know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Well, that's my question. I think maybe she's saying that she doesn't eat when she gets home. That's what I'm wondering. I'm wondering because she's saying what are the... I don't know. I've read it like 10 times and I can't figure it out because she's saying she opens with what are the best high protein meals to bring to work. And then she explains that she gets home and she can't really fit it in. So maybe she's already just eating at work. I'm not sure.

But yeah, if she does want to eat still, that's a great idea what you said about preparing ahead of time. Okay, I love... Oh, quick question for you. I haven't really thought about this before and I'm really curious. So because she's asking about ways to keep food hot or warm. I'm so interested in food temperature and why do we like food at certain temperatures. So for example, eating steak, I will be... Well, I eat it blue. So it's basically cold. I'm just as happy eating a warm steak as a steak the next day that's completely cold. I like it just as much. Do you prefer... With meat, for example, or chicken. I don't mind it being cold. Do you prefer it warm? I'm just curious.

Barry Conrad
If I know that it's been prepared properly and it's just cold, you know, if I'm being in the fridge or it just hasn't been heated again, I don't mind that it's not warm. Of course.

Like if it's dinner, I would, I would just love cause I associate dinner and like a hot meal. That's just more like a psychological thing. You know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's true. That's true.

I guess I'm thinking about the different things I eat every night and how I get a lot of shrimp and I eat it cold, kind of like shrimp cocktail. Again, steak, I'll just briefly, oh yeah, we learned this a few episodes ago, how fast you have to keep it on to sear it. And then it's cold inside. But no, I love all of the examples that you gave there. Those are all really great. And I actually looked up, I'm glad that you mentioned, because I didn't know this. So you were saying you could bring it in a thermos. So definitely look those up. I have not been in a situation because I've been fasting for so long. I haven't really been in a situation where I was bringing food to work that I needed to keep warm. So I don't have a thermos for this, but apparently I had no idea. You get a Stanley or hydro flask. Apparently there's a protocol. So you preheat the thermos and Barry mentioned this, but just to go into more details. So you preheat the thermos with boiling water for five to 10 minutes, and then you heat the food very hot in the morning. So hotter than you would normally eat it. And then you immediately put it into the thermos and then you seal it and then you keep it closed until mealtime. And apparently if you do that, a properly preheated thermos can keep food hot for six to eight hours. So do you ever bring food in thermoses places?

Barry Conrad
I have not in a long time, but I definitely have used that before and I definitely have been around other people who have brought it around with them and the food's pretty warm still, pretty hot. It's a solution for people that need to meal prep and bring their meals around with them.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Apparently they also make electric heated lunch boxes. I didn't know that. If there's an outlet, then another suggestion was, but this seems like a lot, bring a portable food warmer. That's a commitment.

Can you imagine showing up with like, I mean, that's something I would probably do honestly, or insulated lunch bags with heat packs. But I really like the thermos idea. If you want a high protein thing that would be good in a thermos, like ground beef, like a ground beef bowl situation, get some grass-fed ground beef, add some stuff to it. But yeah, I like all the examples you gave. Some things I think are better cold. Like, well, like salmon can be hot, but also people like salmon cold sometimes. Like the salmon they have, like the pre-made salmon at Whole Foods, which by the way, do you go to Whole Foods now?

Barry Conrad
No, I don't yeah, she's calling me out again Do you go yet? Do you go yet?

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to start, I'm going to go, you know, I go every day, I'm going to start to like blowing up your phone. You're going to get like a video of me and Whole Foods every day.

Barry Conrad
You should. I want to see you going down the aisle, get you a cucumber and stuff.

Melanie Avalon
although I have like an awkward situation at one of the Whole Foods I go to right now because they don't want you to, they don't want you to put the food. I bring, okay, when you, oh wait, so do you even go to the grocery store or do you always,

Barry Conrad
Yeah, like, yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Who are you? Do you bring your own bags?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I try to, I try to bring like a couple of my own and then if it's not enough, I'll just grab, you know.

Melanie Avalon
So do you shop in your bag? Do you put the food in? Yes. Do you have like an insulated one?

Barry Conrad
It's just like, like, honestly, it's just like a, like a can, is a canvas the right, it's like almost like a tote bag. It's just like, it's just like the, you know, one of those.

Melanie Avalon
So I have a massive insulated bag. It's massive.

And so I fill it up with frozen stuff and scallops and meat and chicken. And then I have another massive bag that's not insulated and I fill it all up with water. You're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to put it in the cart. I know this, but I need to put it in the bag. And I already got called out on it once by this guy who works there. And so now I avoid him at all costs. If I see him, I run away.

I'm not normally a rebel, but... Yeah.

Barry Conrad
It's like, leave me alone, I'm just shopping, like do your own thing.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Well, they think you're going to steal it, I guess, or something. But yeah, it's really awkward though now.

I avoided that man. So yeah, so Charlotte, hopefully that was helpful. And I echo what Barry says about like, that's an intense schedule.

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. And 5.30 a.m. and you get home at 5.30 and then you work out and you do a walk. Wow.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, props to you, Charlotte, and also let us know what you decide to do. Like, what do you find a new normal? Let us know your situation.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Awesome.

Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment? Let's do it. And so Barry, I'm actually really excited about, I mean, I'm always excited about this part, but today in particular, this really relates because half of the show we talked about the power of your food choices, further supporting the benefits of the fast. So friends, listeners, we are going to profile a restaurant and say how we would break our proverbial fast at that restaurant, and Barry is picking today's restaurant, and it is what?

Barry Conrad
And the restaurant today is Antoine's. It's Antoine's restaurant in New Orleans, Mel. And I've just sent you the link, you can have a look. And this restaurant was founded in 1840 and it's the oldest family-run restaurant in America. It's still in the French Quarter where it began.

Also, Melodie, here's a fun fact that you're gonna love so much. This is where Oisse's Rockefeller was invented, yes. Not recreated, invented.

Melanie Avalon
Wait.

Barry Conrad
They're also fully a la carte French, the Creole French classics that feel celebratory. The windlass is apparently really amazing and old world leaning. And the vibe is like a chandeliers and private Mardi Gras themed spaces. Like, apparently it feels like stepping into living Southern history.

So if Delmonico's define New York, Antoine sounds like it defines New Orleans. So you've got to check this out.

Melanie Avalon
Really quick fun fact for you. So I have in my phone, like a tab and it's restaurants. And so every time I find restaurants, I add it to the tab and it's for the show so that I can like find them for here. So I was going back through restaurants I've been collecting over the like year or so. And I had Delmonico's in my list, not once, but twice.

Like back, like way back in the day, I'd like, I'd like come across it at some point and it was like pending. So I'm so happy that you picked it for, for listeners. We featured it on episode 469. So if you want to check out that episode, but this I'm looking at pictures of the venue. Oh my goodness. What a vibe.

Barry Conrad
Yep, it looks amazing.

Melanie Avalon
I love Southern vibe things, even though I've actually never been to New Orleans still.

Barry Conrad
You got to go. It's honestly so culturally rich. It's like no other place you will go to here in America. It's really amazing.

Melanie Avalon
How many times have you been?

Barry Conrad
I've been twice and that's where I also tried frog legs for the first time.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, how was that?

Barry Conrad
Pretty good. I was in a gumbo type situation. A lot of spice, speaking of spice and chili and whatnot, a lot of spice, sauce, flavors, lots of protein in their dishes as well.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I definitely want to go and I love like I love the like haunted vibe of New Orleans and stuff.

Barry Conrad
The music's good too, live music vibe.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Open drinks, right? Everywhere? You just like...

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Open drinks everywhere. Walking down the street, hearing all this live music playing. Amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Is it like messy or like smelly?

Barry Conrad
No, not that I can remember, no, no.

Melanie Avalon
I guess I'm just picturing like party college city. I mean, it's not a college city, but like the vibe of like the perpetual like parties and like open.

I'm just like, what is the vibe? Is this like a frat house situation?

Barry Conrad
Nah, not the way we were, I don't think.

Melanie Avalon
Well, looking at this menu, oh, and look at the terminology, appetizers.

Barry Conrad
Look at that.

Melanie Avalon
Should we start with that or with what it wait? What is that word? What is the word above the rock the oysters?

Barry Conrad
Okay, so you say, oh, well, it says it's Weetra.

Melanie Avalon
What does it mean? Does it mean oysters? Yeah. Oh, it's the French word for oyster?

Barry Conrad
That's so great. I love that.

Melanie Avalon
How did I know it? Is that, that's the French word for it? Yeah. How did I not know that? How in my entire history of like learning French did I never come across the French word for oysters?

Barry Conrad
Well, I'm definitely starting with that.

Melanie Avalon
You're going to start with your French oysters.

Barry Conrad
And because oysters Rockefeller was invented at Antoine's I'm getting a dozen of those for sure and then also the appetizers what looks really good to me Mel is that shrimp remoulade that looks really good golf shrimp Antoine's zesty and red remoulade sauce that looks really good.

Melanie Avalon
So you're going to, I'm surprised you didn't get the oysters 2-2-2 because you get 2 of each.

Barry Conrad
a sampler. But then I'd still want a dozen of the Oysters Rockefeller. Maybe I can get the Oysters Rockefeller and the Oysters 222.

Melanie Avalon
perfect. And I have actually, well, yeah, I've not had Rockefeller sauce created in 1899 by second generation chef and proprietor Jules Alcia Torre.

Okay. Well, I will not be having the oysters. However, I will entertain you and taste one and not like it. Appetizers. So the remoulade, I think I would ask, can they bring me some shrimp? Is that like a shrimp cocktail with sauce on the side?

Barry Conrad
Maybe, but yeah, I'm not too sure how they, how do we get down over there with that? Like if it's a cocktail glass, or if it's a bowl, I guess maybe it's a shrimp cocktail vibe, maybe.

Melanie Avalon
I think I would just ask if I can get some shrimp, please, with the sauce on the side.

Barry Conrad
Of course. What about the, there's soups and salads there. There's another French onion soup, Mel. There's another French onion soup there.

Melanie Avalon
There we go, French onion soup represent. Would you get, they have a seafood gumbo, gumbo represent.

Barry Conrad
Definitely doing the gumbo. Have to New Orleans. I'll do the seafood gumbo

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you have to read what's in it because there's something in there that I've told you about before.

Barry Conrad
Gulf shrimp, wheat trout, which is oysters, lump crab meat, blue crab and shrimp stock, trinity, and okra and filet. Are you talking about the okra? Okra. Okra, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Remember we talked about this?

Barry Conrad
Remind me, what were you saying about it?

Melanie Avalon
It's like a Southern classic staple vegetable, but it's very weird. It's like mucus on the inside. It's often served fried. If you look it up, you might remember, like fried okra. And it's so specific to the South. I don't think they really eat it anywhere else, but everybody here knows what it is. But it's really just like a Southern thing.

Barry Conrad
It looks southern, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but it's like weird, like it's like slimy on the inside. Is it good? I mean, I used to eat fried okra all the time. I haven't had it in my adult life.

I should probably try it, like not fried and see if I like it. Try it out. I will. I'll report back. In this situation, it's like inside of a gumbo. So yeah, I'm going to pass on the soups and salads.

Barry Conrad
Okay, and now venturing into the classic entrees, the mains, what would you get?

Melanie Avalon
Probably the, well, we're gonna do a lot of editing to it.

Barry Conrad
I knew you were going to say that.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I've never heard of Pompano and apparently it's a low mercury fish. Wait, don't tempt me with a low mercury fish I've never heard of.

A mild flavored fish consistently listed among the lowest mercury levels. What? And it is a highly priced small to medium size marine fish in the Jack family. Okay, well, I think I want to try the Pompano Panchar train. Would you have guessed that?

Barry Conrad
No, I initially I'd the filet mignon, but then I did see those fish and like, she might feel adventurous with that. I would like to request to forget about a bite of your pon cha train just cause I've never, it's so unique.

I've never heard of that before.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Again, I've never heard of this fish. And to find out that it's highly prized, delicious, and low mercury, I'm down.

So it's grill pompeano filet, butter poached crab, white wine reduction, onion rice. Okay. So I would ask if I could get it like that, but can I get the butter poached crab on the side? And I like the crab so I can have crab. And then the sauce on the side. And then if possible, the onion rice situation, does it look like they have like spinach? I might see if they can do spinach. If not, you can have my onion rice.

Barry Conrad
This creamed spinach, maybe they can do it without the cream.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay.

So then I would sub that for, oh, you're right. So then I would sub that for spinach. Oh, and then entree add on. I think I went to entree. So I think I want that. And then I want the, oh, and it's gluten free, which is great. And then I think I also want to filet Marchand da Vin, which is grilled center cut beef tenderloin, Marchand da Vin sauce, which I will have on the side braised cremini mushrooms. Oh, I do like mushrooms. And then Yukon golden mashed potatoes. So I would probably want to see if I could get just mushrooms, no potatoes. And then I think I want to add on maybe bronzed garlic scallops.

Barry Conrad
Nice.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh man. Crab, scallops, this incredible fish I've never heard of in my life that I'm excited about and steak. What? I'm in a happy place. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to do the filet mignon Oscar, which is butter poached crab meat, truffle hollandaise, Yukon gold mashed potatoes. And then I'm also going to get the mushroom bougignon, which is herb roasted fingerling potatoes, burgundy reduction, mushroom ragu.

And I'm going to add some jumbo lump crab meat. Yeah. Jumbo.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait a minute. The set price, like the set course, they have the option of a veal chop. I love veal chops.

I wonder if they, and they have salmon. Wait a minute. Do you think they, do you think they'll like give those to you or do you think they'll like make you do the set price?

Barry Conrad
You have to do it separate. They probably do that because it's set.

Melanie Avalon
maybe we could like get one of those for the table. Oh, because then oh, oh my goodness, Barry, Barry. Oh my goodness. We can do the set pricing because first course you get the oysters one, one, one. So then we could get that for the table and then you could not have to get the two, two, two, and you could get just the Rockefeller, you know?

And then for the second course we could grab that veal chop, which is pan seared veal chop, P and J cornmeal fried oyster. Here we go again. P and J cornmeal fried oysters, sauceboard delay, tomato basil oil. So we could get that. And then we have a dessert that we can like add on in addition to any other desserts. How do you feel? Like this is like a table, like a for the table situation.

Barry Conrad
That's a great situation. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. I'm so happy. It just got even better. And the veal top is gluten free. Have you had fried oysters?

Barry Conrad
I actually have, but I don't prefer them. I prefer just natural, just raw.

Melanie Avalon
In general, do you like things fried more or less?

Barry Conrad
It depends what it is. Something's, yes, if I'm going to have it, but something's like, no, not really more grilled or baked. Do you know what I mean? Pan fried, but not like fried fried, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so desserts. Well, we're getting the set price. So we get to pick one of those. And then what would you get between the... Which dessert would you pick?

Barry Conrad
I would do for the set price the Creole Cream Cheese Cheesecake. That's black cherry compote and whipped cream. Wow.

Melanie Avalon
Compote yeah, okay. I've been saying that wrong in my head like for so long. I thought it was compote

Barry Conrad
That sounds more... Melanie.

Melanie Avalon
So that and then desserts, what are you, anything else you want?

Barry Conrad
Yes, the flourless chocolate torte, which is candied pecan. Do you say pecan or pecans?

Melanie Avalon
That one. Okay. Why do I know that tort is tort? Okay. Why did I think tort was tort? And you're saying torte and then compot or compote, I thought was compote, but

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's I don't know. Okay, plus chocolate talk candied pecans salted caramel dark chocolate and meringue Ah, and then but there's also a crème brûlée. Oh man

Melanie Avalon
And there's a baked Alaska.

Barry Conrad
Oh my god. You know what? I'm going to take away the flourless chocolate torte and I'm going to have the baked Alaska. Thank you, Delmonico, for inspiring me again.

Once again. French vanilla ice cream pound cake. Torch meringue. Glocage. Dark chocolate sauce. Yum. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
oh wait this is funny 14 per guest two guests minimum so if it's just you then they're like we can't give it to you or they're like two of you you are now two people

Barry Conrad
Yep, that's it.

Melanie Avalon
So they don't have what I would want them to have. Although I am very alert by the baked Alaska. But I feel like when you're in New Orleans, you got to get the New Orleans dessert, which would be king cake. But they do have king cake ice cream. You could try that.

Do you know about king cake? No. Wait, Barry, this is like a major moment, education moment for you. So king cake, you should, can you Google it? So you'll get like a visual. So it's like really known for New Orleans and Mardi Gras. And it's purple and green and yellow. And it's a cake. And then inside of the cake, are you ready? They put a baby Jesus.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, it's kind of...

Melanie Avalon
There's like a little plastic like baby Jesus figurine and they put inside and then whoever gets the baby Jesus, I don't know, they're like king for a day or something. You want to get the baby Jesus. That's like the goal.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. I've never heard of that before. That's crazy.

Melanie Avalon
You're going to see it now somewhere, especially with Mardi Gras coming up for us. That's so crazy.

Barry Conrad
Well, maybe I'll try that as a cocktail, just because it's... They have a king cake cocktail? They have like a Mardi Gras cocktail and a king cake is there. King cake martini.

Melanie Avalon
Comes with Smirnoff vanilla vodka, frangelico, rum cha ta, and Mardi Gras sprinkles. Sounds like a vibe.

Barry Conrad
What are you vying for of wine situation? There's wine there.

Melanie Avalon
So, I pretty much know every wine on this menu, which is not good. It's not good when I know every wine in the menu.

This might be like a, this would be a, I don't know what this is, this is a bring my own bottle corkage fee situation for sure.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sounds like it. But how good is this restaurant, Mel? It's so amazing.

Melanie Avalon
I know. It looks amazing. I want to go.

Okay, so there's been a lot of restaurants and a lot of vibes and things I'm really excited about. This is, I think, the most excited I've been about, or one of the most excited I've been about the combination of the entree situation. That fish, the scallops, the steak, the veal, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling good.

Barry Conrad
Sam, it's pretty exciting and I'm starving as well, looking at it.

Melanie Avalon
I know, me too. Well, good thing we get to break our proverbial fast in a bit.

Barry Conrad
So good.

Melanie Avalon
So good find did you find it by googling where were oysters Rockefeller invented.

Barry Conrad
I like to include oysters in my search a lot of the time, but this was an accident. This was the next day I just stumbled on.

Melanie Avalon
Well, nicely done and listeners. We hope you enjoyed your time with us today. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 471. We will have links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out.

And if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And another quick shout out from the beginning. How can people follow Bantroid BC, Barry?

Barry Conrad
Yes, you can follow and find bandwidth VCE on Spotify, Apple Music, all podcast platforms, YouTube, my Instagram, which is at Barry underscore Conrad. And yeah, please check it out.

Season four is coming. Check it out.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, if you like food, you know what, Barry, we should start pitching that or like pitching it. We should start mentioning it at the end every time because if people like food, like if people like what we just did, check out Barry's Bantworth, BC.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, absolutely. Because it's pretty much what we're doing. I mean, I'm not interviewing Mel, but it's just we're talking about eating and drinking whilst connecting. And you love it so much.

It's so festive, so relaxing, so interesting and fun. So check it out.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think we actually like mentioned the setup like you you interview like really cool people. It's like cool like established people doing great things.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so I basically talk to leaders in their field in entertainment and beyond, and we get into their careers, their health and wellness routines, you know, what their goals are, how they got started. It's really inspiring, informative.

It's great. And these people are killing it at the top of the game. So, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So friends, check it out. It's the vibe. And thank you so much for spending time with us. I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
That's it. I'll talk to you next week. Thank you so much for tuning in, everyone.

Melanie Avalon
talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week.

Apr 20

#470 – New Study: Intermittent Fasting Not Effective, When Do We Do OMAD, Fasting Compared To Normal Dietary Advice, Sauna Benefits, Stopping Hunger Before Bed, Short Chain Fatty Acid Benefits, Supporting Cellular Hydration, And More!

Intermittent fasting for adults with overweight or obesity⁠

Welcome to Episode 470 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

LINKS

STUDIES:

⁠Intermittent fasting may make little difference to weight loss, review finds

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS