Search Results for: collagen

Support!

Help Make The Intermittent Fasting Podcast Possible!

Hi Friends! We put a ton of time and energy into researching and producing The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. You can help support us on Patreon! Every dollar helps!

Sep 05

Episode 229: Serrapeptase, Burning Alcohol As Energy, Poor Fasted Sleep, Too Much Fasting, Over-Restriction, Donating Blood, Properly Fueled ADF, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 229 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Take Charge Of Your Digestion With Masszymes - The Most Powerful Enzyme Support Available! Go To masszymes.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order! AND For a limited time you can get a FREE bottle of P3-OM and HCL with select purchases!

 JOOVV: Like intermittent fasting, red light therapy can benefit the body on so many levels! It literally works on the mitochondrial level to help your cells generate more energy! Red light can help you burn fat (including targeted fat burning and stubborn fat!), contour your body, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, produce collagen for epic skin, support muscle recovery, reduce joint pain and inflammation, combat fatigue, help you sleep better, improve mood, and so much more!! These devices are literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To Joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

PREP DISH: Prep Dish Is An Awesome Meal Planning Service Which Sends You Weekly Grocery And Recipe Lists, So You Can Do All Your Meal Preparation At Once, And Be Good To Go For The Week! It's Perfect For The IF Lifestyle! The Meals Are All Gluten-Free, Keto, Or Paleo, Which Is Fantastic If You're Already Doing So, But Also A Wonderful Way To Try These Out With No Feelings Of Restriction! Get A Free 2 Week Trial With The Paleo, Keto, And The September Freezer Meal Challenge At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BIOPTIMIZERS:  Go To masszymes.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order! plus the chance to get more than $50 worth of supplements for free!

3:45 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

Spoon-Fed: Why Almost Everything We’ve Been Told About Food Is Wrong (Tim Spector)

The Diet Myth: Why the Secret to Health and Weight Loss Is Already in Your Gut (tim Spector)

Stay Up To Date With All The News And Pre-Order Info About Melanie's New Serrapeptase Supplement At melanieavalon.com/serrapeptase!

18:45 - Listener Q&A: Anonymous - Body Burning Alcohol for energy

DRY FARM WINES: Natural, Organic, Low Alcohol, Low Sugar Wines, Paleo And Keto Friendly! Go To dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast To Get A Bottle For A Penny!

26:20 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

29:20 - Listener Q&A: Sarah - Waking up feeling exhausted during ADF

Natural Force Organic Pure C8 MCT Oil

Adrenaline Dominance: A Revolutionary Approach to Wellness (Michael Platt, MD)

46:15 - PREP DISH: Get A Free 2 Week Trial With The Paleo, Keto, And The September Freezer Meal Challenge At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

48:05 - Listener Q&A: Evelyn - NSV and donating blood Question 

56:35 - Listener Q&A: Stephanie - 4:3 Window

#171 – Steve Austad, Ph.D.: The landscape of longevity science: making sense of caloric restriction, biomarkers of aging, and possible geroprotective molecules

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 229 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.  

Hi friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get $50 worth of some of our favorite supplements all for free. Yes, for free. A really good question to ponder is, can you avoid all digestive issues by only eating organic whole foods? Don't I know that this would be absolutely amazing? But sometimes, it's not exactly possible. Our natural ability to digest food actually declines as we age. This is because our body produces fewer enzymes, which are the proteins responsible for digesting food. Fewer enzymes means more difficulty digesting food, and even organic whole foods don't necessarily provide enough enzymes to properly digest them. This is especially true if you cook your food because cooking kills enzymes. This is why you may have digestive problems even after a healthy meal. Your body just can't produce enough enzymes to get the job done. 

This is where supplementing with a high-quality enzyme supplement can be a huge help. I personally adore MassZymes by BiOptimizers. Trust me, our audience tells us all the time how much MassZymes is a game changer for them. It’s a best-in-class supplement that is loaded with full-spectrum enzymes for digesting proteins, starches, sugars, fibers, and fats. Taking MassZymes daily helps top off your enzyme levels and replace the enzymes your body may be no longer producing. This means you'll be able to eat all sorts of delicious food, and digest them quickly and effortlessly. After you start taking MassZymes, you may notice that you no longer feel bloated after meals and that your belly feels flatter. I 100% experienced this. If you have leaky gut, MassZymes could reduce gut irritation and help you absorb more nutrients. 

Friends, life is too short to suffer from digestive issues. Don't I know it? You can try MassZymes risk free and see what improvements you notice. We have an incredible, exclusive offer just for our listeners. You can go to masszymes.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST10, for 10% discount. Oh, and one more thing. For a limited time, BiOptimizers is also giving away free bottles of their best-selling products, P30M and HCL, with select purchases. Just go to masszymes.com/ifpodcast to get your exclusive 10% discount with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10, plus the chance to get more than $50 worth of supplements all for free. We'll put all this information in the show notes. 

And one more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. So, when you're putting on your conventional skincare makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. Did you know that conventional lipstick for example often tests high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years and your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. 

Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter 

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now enjoy the show.  

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is episode number 229 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens. 

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.  

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?  

Gin Stephens: Well, I am packing up to go spend three weeks at the beach. 

Melanie Avalon: It's exciting. 

Gin Stephens: It’s the longest I've ever been away from home. Chad just realized that I'm leaving tomorrow, he's known that I was going but he's like, “Wait a minute. Three weeks is a really long time.” I'm like, “Sorry.”  

Melanie Avalon: Is it the longest, really?  

Gin Stephens: It's the longest I've ever been away from him, yeah. Our whole married life. Yeah.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow.  

Gin Stephens: It just worked out. We got to have a lot to do with the house and in between rentals and lots going on, and also got friends coming. I didn't go for the entire month of July, because the house was rented. I only spent one week there in June. So, I grabbed these three weeks in August for myself, and I have a lot to do, like I said. So, I'll be very, very busy, but I've got a couple of friends coming down, one, then she's leaving, then and others coming, then she's leaving, then Will's going to come and spend some time with me. I'll be doing a lot of recording while I'm there too. My regular podcast recording schedule is still happening.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm sure it will be super fun and productive.  

Gin Stephens: It will but Chad is going to miss me. So, he's already let me know. Yeah, I think it's going to be awesome. I'm very excited. The ocean is very warm in August. So, that's nice.  

Melanie Avalon: I love the Atlantic, the warm Atlantic.  

Gin Stephens: I'm going to get in the ocean every day. I like to get in the ocean and jump around with the waves. It's like a really great workout. Like really.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I agree. I'm an Atlantic Ocean person. I feel that people are either Atlantic or Pacific.  

Gin Stephens: Or, you might be Gulf of Mexico. Some people are Gulf of Mexico. I am not.  

Melanie Avalon: That's what I am.  

Gin Stephens: You’re Gulf of Mexico? You'd like the calm?  

Melanie Avalon: It is just what I-- growing up, that's where we went.  

Gin Stephens: That's what it all boils down to.  

Melanie Avalon: At whatever beach you went to growing up. 

Gin Stephens: Guess where I went, Myrtle Beach. That's where my grandmother took me. [laughs] So, that's where I go. We found a picture that-- my mother came to visit us, a couple weeks ago, and she brought some old photos that actually a cousin on my granddaddy's side gave us pictures we'd never seen before. Because they were like my aunt, my old, old aunt and my granddaddy's side had them. So, we'd never seen them. It was some pictures from my mother was little, and right down there where we bought our house, like 10 minutes away from where we bought our house, my mother, and my uncle, and my grandparents were there in the 50s. Actually, I guess it was the early 50s. Maybe, right even before my house was built that I'm in, that was built in 1956, 10 miles away, it's really fun. We have vacation routes in this area. So, no wonder I love it. 

Melanie Avalon: [giggles] I love that. 

Gin Stephens: So, what's new with you?  

Gin Stephens: I have two exciting announcements. I was just looking at the calendar, though. One of them will have already happened. But all the more reason friends to be on my email list, because if you missed this, you would have known about it. You can get on my email list at melanieavalon.com/email list, although, I might also send an email through our email list because it's relevant. I'm doing a Q&A with the people at Zoey.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, I love that.  

Melanie Avalon: Not like an interview for my show. We're going to do a live Zoom, because I've been getting a lot of questions about Zoey--  

Gin Stephens: In the Facebook group?  

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm, yeah, and people. Well, people loving it, but then also people a little bit confused about the recommendations, and just wanting some clarity. I sent those questions all over to them, and they were super great. A, they got me very detailed answers, but then they said they would prefer just doing a live thing and talking to people. So, that should be super fun. One of the main things that people were, I guess, curious about was it seemed like a lot of the food recommendations were very similar. I mean they are. They say they are, but it's evolving and that they're working on making it more personalized. 

Gin Stephens: Even though the foods might be similar as far as recommendations go, the scores are different. That's what I noticed working with the moderators of my Facebook groups and the social network, the friends of mine who went through it that are moderators, comparing our scores, like we would put in the same meal just out of curiosity and see what our individual scores were, and the scores were very varied. Even though the same foods are scoring typically higher, the combination would get a different result. That was what was fascinating, we didn't get the same exact number.  

Melanie Avalon: Okay, yeah.  

Gin Stephens: Even though we were both putting in the same-- we would even check brand names and things. Somebody's like, “Oh, look, this scores 99 for me on Zoey," and someone else would put it in and it would not be a 99.” 

Melanie Avalon: I haven't done Zoey. I wonder if it'd be more appropriate if I do it first before. 

Gin Stephens: Well, that's a thought. Remember, you got to eat those muffins. You've got to do it for science.  

Melanie Avalon: But it's just one day, right?  

Gin Stephens: I can't remember and it's always changing. It might have been two days of muffins, but then what they're doing right now is even different from when I did it because, just like you said before, it's always evolving. This is really research in action. They're not just like a program you buy, and here's the program. They are actually doing scientific research. They published something in the journal, Nature, which is a very well-renowned scientific journal recently. So, they're evolving their recommendations and everything about it based on as they learn, as the science evolves. 

Melanie Avalon: I might email them. I might see if they would prefer me to do it first. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's a great idea. Also, I have a friend, they actually asked her to do it again, like they're comparing data. As part of the study, they said, “We would like for you to go through it again with your-- just to see.”  

Melanie Avalon: I also finished Tim Spector’s book because I'm interviewing him in less than a month as well.  

Gin Stephens: Isn't he wonderful?  

Melanie Avalon: Well, I guess, just from what I'd seen from the feedback about Zoey from my audience, I was anticipating it to be much more not open to something-- His section on meat, for example, he was very much clear that most long-lived populations eat meat and very clear on what might actually be going on with that, and he was also-- I loved his perspective on salt. I loved his perspective on wine and alcohol.  

Gin Stephens: Can I pop in something real quick that confuses a lot of people about Zoey?  

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. 

Gin Stephens: Just because something doesn't score 100, doesn't mean you're not supposed to eat it. That was just an example. We tend to want to gamify and beat our scores, and if this scores a 90, then I should try to get a 95. People can mistakenly think that a meal that includes meat the Zoey scores 75 and that means you shouldn't eat meat, but that's not what it's saying. We follow their recommendations and follow their program. They don't tell you that all your meals should score above a 90. So, people mistakenly think that they're being guided to not eat meat at all, when really that is them looking at numbers and thinking I want to get 100. We were trained to get 100 in school. Getting 100 is what you want. Always a 100. That might be something Zoey could keep in mind maybe for feedback, because we're so trained, it's ingrained in our psyche, the goal should be 100. That's not how they want you to live your life and I'm glad that you got that sense from reading Spoon-Fed. 

Melanie Avalon: I thought it was going to be not as nuanced in his perspective on the things I just mentioned, meat, salt, alcohol. The things I learned in the alcohol chapter, I've learned so much. Just things I didn't realize, like the recommendations for alcohol intake between different countries, I knew it was different but it's shockingly different. Then, the correlations to health just don't line up. He said in Chile, the recommendation-- which I tried to verify this and I couldn't find this number this high, so, I'm not sure where this was coming from. But he said in Chile the maximum recommended intake is the equivalent of six glasses per day. Then in the UK, I think now it's like zero or something, but they have the worst health-- It's just really, really interesting. Not saying that alcohol equals health automatically, but he definitely creates a really nuanced picture. 

Gin Stephens: But also, you can't go by recommendations as equating for health. Just because they recommend, they have zero in the UK, I don't think the UK is following that recommendation. Just because they recommend zero and have terrible health doesn't-- you know.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's a very valid point. He even said some pretty what I thought were very controversial things about the role of alcohol in pregnancy. I was like, “Oh, did not anticipate this.” I'm really excited to interview him. 

Gin Stephens: He's a scientist. He's looking at that info, and he's not always telling you what is politically correct to say.  

Melanie Avalon: It was something to the effect of drinking during pregnancy-- I'm sure there was more context about the amounts and everything. But basically, it very rarely actually creates issues in the child. But again, don't quote me on that. Read the chapter.  

Gin Stephens: It's been a long time since I read it. I read it when it first came out, and I haven't read it since. Maybe, I should go back and read it. I think it's on my Kindle. I think that's how I bought it. If not, I'll get it on my Kindle, and I'll read it on the beach.  

Melanie Avalon: It's Spoon-Fed. I haven't mentioned the title yet. So, for listeners, I'll put a link to it in the show notes. 

Gin Stephens: And his other book, The Diet Myth, is really good too.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to try to read it if I have time before interviewing him.  

Gin Stephens: But just keep in mind. It was several years older. He evolves his thinking. But I learned a lot. It was way early in my-- we're all different. Opening up of my mind, it was really early. I read it in maybe--0 it was either 2015 or 2016. So, it was well before I wrote Feast Without Fear. It really is what got me thinking and it was like a foundational-- just like The Obesity Code was foundational for me, so was The Diet Myth by Tim Spector. 

Melanie Avalon: We might start production this week on the serrapeptase supplement. So, listeners get on my email list for that. I have an email list just for that supplement. It's at melanieavalon.com/serrapeptase, and we're going to do a preorder special and the prices will probably not be that low ever again. I say this every time but basically serrapeptase is an enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. You take it in the fasted state. It breaks down residual proteins in your body. So, it really addresses anything that-- or it can address anything that is from a protein buildup or your immune system reacting to proteins. So, arthritis, inflammation, brain fog, fibroids. An article just came out in June, and I haven't read all of it yet, it actually talks about the role of serrapeptase to treat COVID. 

Gin Stephens: I saw that somewhere. Eating up the proteins, I actually saw something related to COVID and serrapeptase. I wondered if that's where you were going with that.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, probably.  

Gin Stephens: It wasn't that article I sent you, was it?  

Melanie Avalon: Well, I just saw this yesterday.  

Gin Stephens: Okay, then it wasn't. 

Melanie Avalon: I'll put a link to it in the show notes, but I haven't sat down and read every serrapeptase study that I can find. So, I need to actually do that. I'm really excited too.  

Gin Stephens: You'll be like the world's premier expert on serrapeptase.  

Melanie Avalon: The few studies I've read, it's just so overwhelmingly clear that it has so many health benefits, and it's really appreciated in countries like Japan and here, it's just not even-- People are just not aware about it. One of the studies I was reading, it was saying that it rivals NSAIDs for its effectiveness without any of the side effects of NSAIDs. 

Gin Stephens: Just to be clear, we're not hinting that it's going to prevent or reverse or COVID or anything like that. But what it does is, it breaks down proteins, and so that's an interesting thought. 

Melanie Avalon: Maybe, I'll report back next week after I've read the whole study about what it actually says. Because I think it talks about a few different mechanisms of action. In any case, I'm creating my own brand. I've been taking it for years, different brands, but I'm just going to create my own. So, the two emails to get on are melanieavalon.com/emaillist and melanieavalon.com/serrapeptase. The show notes by the way will be at ifpodcast.com/episode229, and I'll put links. We've already talked about so much to everything there. Shall we jump into everything for today? 

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's get started, and we have a question from Anonymous. Bum, bum, bum  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, for some feedback.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. It's feedback. Yes, and the subject is "Body burning alcohol for energy." Anonymous says, “Hello, and thank you for your podcasts. On Episode 225, you answered a burning question I've had for years about the body using alcohol as a fuel source. I know someone who fasts daily and eats only dinner. He's very lean and well defined, although, he does not lift weights or exercise. In fact, he's disabled. However, he drinks beer all day long.” Now, this is just me interrupting. I would not consider that fasting all day. Beer has plenty of fuel in it.  

Melanie Avalon: Beer actually has carbs as well. It's not just pure alcohol.  

Gin Stephens: He's definitely not fasting. I just wanted to get that out there just in case. Let's say someone was listening and they-- 

Melanie Avalon: And stopped listening?  

Gin Stephens: Right. If he's drinking beer all day long, he is not fasting, not even close to fasting. She continues to say, “I always wondered why he doesn't gain significant weight while adding fuel to his body. This couldn't possibly be fasting.” That's her who said that but you're correct, Anonymous. All right, let's keep going. “Then you posited that in theory, one could drink alcohol and burn more calories taking in as alcohol isn't stored as fat. So, I suppose then my friend is the realization of this theory. While I wouldn't want to replicate his pattern of eating or drinking, it makes sense to me now why he is so lean and still dirty fasting. Thank you for your thoughts. It helps bring so much into perspective.”  

Again, I really don't like the words ‘dirty fasting,’ because I really don't think it's true. We like to have the opposites. If there's something called clean fasting, there must be something called dirty fasting? I actually think the opposite of clean fasting is you're not fasting. 

Melanie Avalon: Not fasting.  

Gin Stephens: Right. The only reason I say clean fasting is because so many things have the words fasting in there. Like a juice fast, or a bone broth fast, or a fat fast, and I don't think those are actually fasting either. They're just a pattern of eating different things or drinking things that are not really fasting. Anyway, I just had to throw that in there. Sorry.  

Melanie Avalon: I guess, if you were doing a juice fast or bone broth fast, you're fasting from physical food, but you're not fasting in the sense that we think of fasting. 

Gin Stephens: Well, if you were asked to fast for a medical procedure, that would not fly. They would not want you to drink bone broth before your fasted surgery. That's a good way of thinking about it. If it's off limits [laughs] for a medical procedure, then we wouldn't want to drink a lot of beer right before medical procedure, either.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm just saying terminology wise like, you could eat food and be fasting just from apples, and you're not eating apples like you can fast from something. 

Gin Stephens: I'm fasting from apples. Yeah, well, it's like the Daniel Fast. It's a religious fast that my parents' church. They're eating, it's food. But it's just as special. They're refraining from certain things. But it's not the fasting we mean when we say fasting.  

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. It's a very interesting observation from Anonymous. So, yeah, we've talked about this before, but basically-- and again, beer is on the higher carb side of the alcoholic drinks. Well, I guess it really just depends, but alcohol itself doesn't really become body fat. I highly doubt it ever does. So, if people are just partaking in alcohol, they're actually probably not going to gain any fat from that alcohol. That said, what you eat with the alcohol can very easily be stored, and then on top of that, if you take in 2000 calories from alcohol, that's 2000 calories of energy. So, it's still adding to your total daily caloric intake and that the other food is more likely to be stored. 

Gin Stephens: Beer is technically, typically only 5% alcohol. Wine is about 12% alcohol or more. These are averages. According to average, beer would average 5%, some will be more, some will be less. Wine will average 12% and spirits, really only like spirits like vodka, usually only about 40% alcohol, unless you're drinking grain alcohol or something.  

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if that is averaging together like sweet wines and normal wines?  

Gin Stephens: I would think that's what they do for an average.  

Melanie Avalon: If you go to the store and look at the back of all the wines to see the alcohol percentage, which is something I have done trying to see if I can find any Dry Farm Wines equivalent wines in the store. It's so hard to find wines with alcohol less than 12.5% which is what Dry Farm Wines uses as they're cut off-- Usually, they're more than that.  

Gin Stephens: Well, again, that could be all data. Maybe, now, it's higher. Maybe, it used to be 12, and no one's updated, and everybody's just assuming it's still 12.  

Melanie Avalon: It’s a good question. 

Gin Stephens: That just shows that all these alcoholic drinks that we're drinking, it's not just alcohol. So, you're not just taking in alcohol calories that other 95% of your beer is not alcohol calories. 95% of it is not alcohol. So, yeah.  

Melanie Avalon: I'll give a link since we mentioned Dry Farm Wines. 

Gin Stephens: Of course, some of it's water. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, right, because it's by volume, not by calorie.  

Gin Stephens: Exactly.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because I was thinking about in my head. I was like, “Mm.” 

Gin Stephens: I don't know the percentage of a beer that is of the calories. The percentage of the calories that would be the alcohol. That's another question. I don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: I just realized this recently. The Dry Farm Wines, a lot of them a relabel with their own label. For listeners, Dry Farm Wines, they go throughout Europe. They find wineries practicing organic practices, and then the wines have to be low sugar, low alcohol, less than 12.5 or less, like you just mentioned. They test them for toxins, and pesticides, and mold. I experienced such a difference drinking them but they often now relabel the back label to give more information and it shows grams of sugar, which is so cool. Most of them are 1 gram of sugar.  

Gin Stephens: I love the label that they put on there.  

Melanie Avalon: It's so helpful. So, that would be very negligible calories from carbs and alcohol. 

Gin Stephens: Will’s coming over for dinner more lately. Last night we're all sitting around and each of us had like a tiny little glass. We opened the bottle day before yesterday of Dry Farm Wines. It's red wine. I don't drink much red wine, but I had a tiny little bit. Now, we've had four servings from it and it's still only half the bottle because we're each having tiny little bits and even Will, because he's 21 now.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, fun.  

Gin Stephens: He's going to be spoiled rotten with his Dry Farm Wines.  

Melanie Avalon: I know. No kidding. Oh, my gosh.  

Gin Stephens: Making this 21-year-old have expensive tastes but in a good way, right? 

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Oh, well, she'll be editing this and she'll hear it and her birthday has already passed. But just to show how much we love it, we gave our fabulous girl on our team who helps edit the podcast and create show notes and artwork, we gave her Dry Farm Wines for her birthday. 

Gin Stephens: Happy birthday, again, even though it's passed, Brianna. 

Melanie Avalon: Happy birthday again, Brianna.  

Gin Stephens: We're like, “What should we get her?” We're going back and forth, and we're like, “Well, you just can never go wrong with Dry Farm Wines.” Can never go wrong.  

Melanie Avalon: Never. So, for listeners if you'd like to get your own, you can go to dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast and that link will also get you a bottle for a penny.  

Gin Stephens: So, that's exciting.  

Hi, friends. Okay, we have thrilling news about Joovv. They have new devices and we have a discount. Yes, a discount, no longer a free gift, a discount. As you guys know, there are a few non-negotiables in my personal daily routine. I focus on what and when I eat every single day. And I also focus on my daily dose of healthy light through Joovv’s red light therapy devices. Guys, I use my Joovv all the time. Red light therapy is one of the most effective health modalities you can use in your home. I've personally seen so many health benefits, I find it incredible for regulating my circadian rhythm, helping my mood, boosting my thyroid, smoothing my skin, and I've also used it on multiple occasions for targeted pain relief. Anyone who's familiar with red light therapy, pretty much knows that Joovv is the leading brand. They pioneered this technology, and they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use. Since then, they've remained the most innovative, forward-thinking light therapy brands out there. 

And we're so excited because Joovv just launched their next generation of devices. And they've made huge upgrades to what was already a really incredible system. Their new devices are sleeker, they're up to 25% lighter, and they all have the same power that we've come to expect from them. They've also intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. They've also upgraded the setup for the new devices with quick easy mounting options, so your new Joovv can fit just about any space. 

And the new devices include some pretty cool new features, things like their Recovery Plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves an extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near-infrared light. And this is my personal favorite update. For those of us who like to use do devices to wind down at night, they now have an ambient mode that creates a calming lower intensity of light at night. Guys, I am so excited about this. Using this light at night is way healthier than bright blue light from all of our screens, and much more in line with your circadian rhythm. I was using my current Joovv devices at night anyway to light my whole apartment, so this new ambient mode is really going to be a game changer for me. Of course, you still get the world-class customer service from your helpful, friendly Joovv team. 

If you're looking for a new Joovv device for your home, we have some very exciting news. You can go to joovv.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST. You'll get an exclusive discount on Joovv’s newest devices. Yes, discount, I said it. That's J-O-O-V-V dotcom, forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Exclusions apply, and this is for a limited time only. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show. 

Melanie Avalon: Shall we go on to our first question? 

Gin Stephens: Yes.  

Melanie Avalon: This question comes from Sarah. The subject is "Waking up feeling exhausted during ADF." And Sarah says, “Hi, Mel and Gin. I wonder if you can shed some light on this. I've been IF for two years and lost 40 pounds. I have PCOS and am about 10 pounds for my goal/healthy weight. I’m currently 151 pounds and 5’4". I've been doing three 42-hour fasts most weeks since January. Never less than two a week. I tend to only lose weight if I'm low carb in my eating window which I find quite difficult and really watch what I eat. I don't eat bread, pasta, or rice usually. Otherwise, I maintain with three 42-hour fasts which sucks. I've tried shorter length fast and one meal a day, which causes me to gain weight. 

My question, on the days I do 42-hour fast, I sleep really, really well, but feel awful when I wake up, really tired and find it difficult to get out of bed. It goes once I'm up and awake, but I love to feel better. It doesn't happen on days I've eaten. I've recently had my general blood checked all fine. I take multivitamins, magnesium, fish oil, primrose oil, and electrolytes when fasting. I'm 50, and with perimenopausal symptoms such as hair falling out. Can you suggest ways to feel better? Love all your podcasts, books, and websites. Awesome. Thank you." 

Gin Stephens: I do want to say that I'm not certain that hair falling out is a perimenopausal symptom.  

Melanie Avalon: That's what I was going to say.  

Gin Stephens: I feel it's not. It actually is a symptom that what you're doing is stressing your body out. So, I wonder if you may be overfasting for your body. I don't know. Count back three months, as a rule of thumb. Three months or so before the hair started falling out. Did you go through something stressful? If the answer is, “Oh, yeah, that was when my son was in the hospital or that was when I started a new stressful job.” Stress can make our hair start the hair fall process, and it's whatever your body perceives to be as a stress. You even could have had an illness that your body perceived as a stress. We try to make a lot of connections with what it is, and sometimes, we're not right. It might not be menopause. So, just keep that in mind. 

Melanie Avalon: It can be a sign but I think everything you just said is probably more likely the case and given the context of her question, it might not be menopause. 

Gin Stephens: Yep. If you have PCOS, then, that lets us know that your body likely has an issue with insulin because generally PCOS is related to higher levels of insulin. So, you're going to need to do things to get your insulin down, and that is why the longer fasts tend to be good for your body, and also, that probably why your body responds better to lower carb. So, you said it sucks, that's a bummer, and I know that it's frustrating. I get it. Because I would not be happy either, if my body needed me to do something that didn't feel like the thing I wanted to do. However, that being said, we have to work with the bodies we have, not our idea of what we want.  

For example, I wish I had a body that was doing great with allowing me to have a glass of wine, a big glass of wine every night, maybe two, but I don't. So, I've had to say, “Well, you know what? That isn't what my body does well with." If I eat too much sugar, I get restless legs. So, I have to adjust what I do to match what I want to have happen. I want you to reframe the three 42 inch-- 42 inch, I don't know where that came from. [laughs] The three 42-hour fasts. Instead of doing three 42-hour fasts, what if you did three 36-hour fasts? That might make a big difference. 36 to 42 is a lot of difference. Six hours. So, three 42-hour fasts might be more than your body wants to do. Try three 36-hour fasts instead. That would mean you're eating earlier in the day. Maybe model after the carbohydrate addicts' diet, which is an oldie but a goodie. But that was really early days of realizing how insulin affects us and she talked about it in there. Maybe do a low carb on the days that are your up days and you're going to have a 12-hour eating window instead of six because I really do think that three 42-hour fasts might be ever restriction, because the research on ADF, they weren't restricting at all on the updates. They weren't having a six-hour eating window. So, if you're having a six-hour eating window every single time that just might be over restriction.  

So. back to the carbohydrate addicts' diet, what I was talking about is, she had the plan. It was low carb breakfast, low carb lunch, regular dinner, and that was it. That was the whole plan. People lost weight doing that. So, if you do that on your updates, low carb breakfast, low carb lunch, regular dinner maybe still not if you don't eat bread, pasta rice usually but just allowing yourself to have more whole food carbs in that dinner. So, 36-hour fast, up day where you try low carb breakfast, low carb lunch, and then maybe slightly up your carb intake at dinner, see how that goes. See how that makes you feel. That might make you feel better. If it doesn't, if you still feel terrible on the days after your what are now 36-hour fast instead of 40-hour fast, if you still wake up feeling terrible, I want you to restructure your down day.  

Maybe on your down day, you have a low carb dinner instead. So, it would look like on what's your down day, instead of having a complete full fast, you would have a down day that has a low carb dinner. And then the next day, low carb breakfast, low carb lunch, higher carb dinner, and then just alternate that. See if what you're doing isn't just too restrictive. Because really the hair falling out, the fact that you're doing three 42-hour fasts, the fact that you're having trouble. The fact that, that you're seeing weight gain on one meal a day, that just makes me feel you might need to do just a little something else. You might be over-restricting. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, between Gin and me, I think we're going to offer a lot of different options. I'm glad that Gin took the approach of still keeping in the longer fast, but just not quite as long. So, that's definitely an option. I would probably suggest not doing any longer fasts. Gin was just talking about how the fact that you gain weight on one meal a day or shorter fasts is signifying that there's a lot that you can work with what you're actually eating in your eating window. Because I feel you should be able to find an eating pattern and a one meal a day pattern where you at the very least maintain, which would be my goal. So, my goal would be next 42-hour fast, I think what you're doing is sounds way too restrictive.  

You're 10 pounds from your goal weight, that's always when it's the hardest. You wake up exhausted, you don't feel good. You said, you feel good once you get going. That's probably from adrenaline kicking in. Your hair's falling out, I would stop. I would stop these long fasts, I would not do them. I would suggest trying one meal a day, every day, and really working on the food choices. Don't even try to lose weight. Just find something that maintains and then you can move forward to losing weight. I almost wonder if the fact that you're doing three 42-hour fasts, if the weight loss that you perceive that you're losing and the weight gain that you perceive that you're gaining, if it's literally just volume of food.  

Gin Stephens: Fluctuations from volume of food.  

Melanie Avalon: By 42 hours, you've probably lost the physical volume of all the food and then you're probably not retaining water. So, then when you eat, you probably gain back volume wise, just food, and then it's like if you were to keep doing one meal a day, you might feel you're gaining weight, but it's really just that now you have a volume of food in you every day that you didn't have before. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's so true. People do find that to be the case. I've actually had people say, “Gosh, every time I shorten my eating window, I gain weight. I don't gain weight on a six-hour window, but if I have a 1-hour window, I gain, gain. gain.” Really, I think it's just the volume of the food sits differently in the body when you eat it all in a constrained window, and then it causes you to even retain water differently, because a bulk of that food is moving through your system in a different way.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. So, I think just psychologically, the way you're interpreting the game might have a lot to do with that. It's just seems so restrictive to me. A lot of people are really, really proud of themselves if they do one 42-hour fast and you're doing it three times a week. I think there's so much potential. For what I would suggest to do if you want to try one meal a day, well, first of all, like I said, accept the fact that you're going to “gain some weight,” but it's the volume. You're going to need to do it long enough for that to stabilize to actually see what is weight gain, and weight loss, and what like I just mentioned, the volume. 

You're doing low carb. We don't know what foods you're eating in low carb. I don't know if this is something that you're doing, but a lot of people in the low carb sphere, don't lose weight, even if it's working for them because they think that low carb means unlimited fat. But if you're eating enough fat to the point where you're not tapping into your body fat, you're probably not going to lose weight. I think this is one of the biggest things that people experience in the low carb world when they can't lose weight.  

I don't know if you're adding fats to your food. I don't know if you're just doing low carb like low carb foods or if you are also adding fats. A lot of people when they do low carb, they're adding olive oil or butter, maybe even cheese. If you're doing any of that, I would stop doing that and replace it with more protein. So, focusing on lean protein because that's the most satiating, that's the most thermogenic, meaning it's going to stimulate your metabolism the most. That's the least likely to become fat as a macronutrient. So, if you want to stay with low carb depending on what you're doing, reconceptualize it. Focus on the protein, focus on not adding fat. If you want to add fat, I say this a lot, but I would add C8 MCT oil. That's actually very pro-metabolic. So, that's a way to sort of like--  

Because some people's metabolisms on low carb-- and it's not a bad thing. But they might actually slow down a little bit just because of the nature of the macronutrients and I found that adding C8 MCT oil actually can combat that a little bit, because it's very thermogenic, and metabolism stroking, and to clarify, not in your fast, with your food. I'll put a link in the show notes to the one that I really like. As far as the carbs go, I know you said that you only lose weight if you are low carb. But I really like what Gin was saying about the potential of-- what is it called, where you add in the carb days? 

Gin Stephens: It's the carbohydrate addicts’ diet. Because since Sarah has PCOS, we know that insulin is likely a big issue for her. So, getting the insulin down more should be something that she targets. That's why low carb is so beneficial for people with PCOS.  

Melanie Avalon: I misheard. So, the carbohydrate addicts' diet, you don't have carbs, do you?  

Gin Stephens: You do. You have a low carb breakfast, low carb lunch and a “regular dinner.” 

Melanie Avalon: Okay. So, I would suggest something similar. If you're going to do a one meal a day thing, having low carb days, then if you want to have a day with carbs as a carb up, so, it's like cyclical keto or something like that, having a carb up day in your one meal a day and making it very high carb, but making it very low fat for that day. 

Gin Stephens: I want to also say that you're likely to see a four-pound weight gain the next day after a high carb day after being low carb, and that is why people think, “Oh my gosh, I gain with carbs.” No, that's water weight. You did not gain four pounds of fat overnight from a high carb day. I actually did a program years and years and years and years ago back in my trying all the diets day. It was called Carb Nite. I've talked about that before, Melanie?  

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. 

Gin Stephens: Keifer. Yep, yep. Carb Nite. The whole point of that was, your low carb for like-- I can't remember. I guess six days a week, and then one night a week, you have Carb Nite. It was where you added in lots and lots of carbs, and you're really trying to get those carbs in it, and he had the whole scientific reason why he recommended that because it keeps our hormones from-- Anyway, all the things that are said to happen when you're low carb with your hormones, this prevents all that. So, it's keeps your metabolism going a thing. It's been a long time, years since I read that work. But the whole premise was once a week, Carb Nite. You had to understand that after the Carb Nite, your weight was going to skyrocket. But it wasn't all fat. It's the water weight, and that comes because carbohydrates make us retain water, hydrate water.  

Melanie Avalon: For the Carb Nite, you do focus on being lower fat as well. That protocol works really, really well for a lot of people. That's probably the protocol I would actually recommend, would be a one meal a day situation, making the low carb days low carb, making them very high protein and not adding any fats. If you do add fats, add the MCT and then have a Carb Nite one night a week where you do high carb, low fat. 

Gin Stephens: No, I don't recall it being high carb-low fat because I remember I was in the community for a while. This was a long, long time ago. There was a Facebook group for it. I recall us eating things like gelato and we were not low fat. So, I don't know if we all were doing it wrong, but I don't recall the emphasis being low fat. 

Melanie Avalon: I think if I recall correctly and I can double check, I think he suggests, you're allowed to have fat, but I think he suggests you start with carbs. The idea is to fill up, and then if you're still hungry at the end, that's when you add in the fat but you don't start with the fat. 

Gin Stephens: That's not how I remember it but again, I could be misremembering it. 

Melanie Avalon: Or, might be the other way around. But there's an order to it.  

Gin Stephens: I just know, I was not doing low fat in there too. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, well, that's the thing is you can have it. I'm pretty sure. Because I read this a few months ago, and I think there's an order to it. 

Gin Stephens: Also, it could have been revised since then maybe he revised his recommendations since whenever it was I was doing it years ago. That is entirely possible. 

Melanie Avalon: Regardless of what he writes, I personally believe that if you make that high carb day low fat, then what's so incredible about it is, if you've been low carb, so you've been a fat burning ketogenic metabolism, lowering insulin, when you have that carb up day, you get all of the metabolic benefits of carbs. So, thyroid stimulating, metabolism, promoting filling up your glycogen stores throughout muscle, and your liver, if you do that in the context of high protein, high carb, low fat, it's actually-- even though, you'll most likely gain water weight, it's actually unlikely that you will gain much weight at all. So, it's like you get to have this. 

Gin Stephens: You're not really gaining fat. You see it on the scale. But that's what I don't want people to be freaked out about is like, “Oh my gosh, look at the scale. I'm up. I've gained all this fat from this. See, my body can't eat carbs.” That is not what that means. 

Melanie Avalon: Right. If you do eat fat on that high carb meal, you're going to store whatever fat. Basically, that's where you can see it. If you do this high carb day, this carb up day, basically, see it as whatever fat you eat that day you are most likely going to store. 

Gin Stephens: Not if it's not over what you needed.  

Melanie Avalon: True.  

Gin Stephens: Just because you eat fat doesn't mean your store it. I eat fat every day and I'm not storing a bunch of fat. I eat fat and carbs together every day. Only in the paradigm of now you're overeating. If you're overeating, what's leftover will be stored.  

Melanie Avalon: When I'm saying in my head is a lot of people who do this carb up, they make it really intense. It's like the big feast day. 

Gin Stephens: The cheat day kind of paradigm which is not really what it's supposed to be.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, right. Exactly.  

Gin Stephens: I don't like the idea of cheat day anyway. 

Melanie Avalon: So, let us know, Sarah. Let us know how it all goes. I will also-- just because I mentioned this last week, I'm reading Dr. Michael Platt's book about Adrenaline Dominance, and he really recommends and-- I started doing it. He really recommends progesterone cream for all hormonal issues really. But he actually recommends it right before eating for insulin sensitivity, which was really interesting. Apparently, if you take it right before eating, it's only in the bloodstream for a brief amount of time. It can possibly help you with your insulin response. 

Hi, everybody. I want to take a minute to tell you about Prep Dish and what they have going on for you this summer. Summer is my favorite season. I'm sure that you've heard me say that before. But one thing about summer is that we are busy. That's why I'm so excited to tell you about the free bonus menu Prep Dish is offering this month, and it's only good through the end of June. 

If you're a regular listener, I'm sure you're familiar with their new Super Fast Menus. If you thought prepping five healthy dinners in just an hour was the best it could get somehow, they're upping their game. Just for the month of June, Prep Dish is offering all new subscribers a free bonus menu. It's not just your average meal plan though. It's designed to let you prep five healthy dinners in just 30 minutes. It seriously doesn't get any easier than that. Don't worry. Just because the meals come together quickly, that doesn't mean you'll be missing out on flavor. The bonus menu includes things like California burgers with berry salad, shrimp tostadas and a slow cooker Italian pork. When you subscribe, you'll have access to the gluten-free, paleo, keto and the Super Fast menu, in addition to the bonus menu. 

If you're still not convinced, remember that you get a two-week free trial if you go to prepdish.com/ifpodcast, so you can try the meals out yourself before you commit. Again, that's prepdish.com/ifpodcast for two weeks free, and for the month of June anyone who signs up gets the fastest meal plan ever bonus. Now back to the show.  

Melanie Avalon: All right. Shall we go on to our next question? 

Gin Stephens: Yes, and this is from Evelyn and the subject is "Non-scale victory and donating blood." She says, “Hello, ladies. My name is Evelyn and I have been doing Gin's Fast. Feast. Repeat protocol for just over a year. I would like to report a few non-scale victories and ask one question. First a bit about me. I am 51 years old, a mother of four adult children, happily married for nearly 30 years, and work at home as a private piano teacher. Mid July 2020, during the middle of COVID and shutdown, I was taking inventory of my life. My weight was the highest it had ever been at 210 pounds.” Gosh, I just want to say, we have so much in common, Evelyn. I only have two children, not four. But I've been married for 30 years, I got up to 210, so many similarities. I'm 52, you're 51. Anyway, back to the question.  

She said, “I was entering into menopause. A few more months and I will be past that famous one-year mark. I was charting my blood work from several years past and began to see that the trend was getting higher and higher in almost every category. I could see the writing on the wall that medicine would be in my future, kind of depressing. When my girlfriend graciously shared her copies of your two books, Gin, I read them both in two days and started immediately. I was a rip the bandage off kind of girl. My first hope of course was to lose weight, which I have. I am currently 158 pounds with about 10 to 15 pounds to go. But I also wanted to work on my blood work. I'd like to report this year my wellness checkup that all my numbers improved, and are once again within normal ranges.”  

Melanie Avalon: Hooray. I'm cheering. That was me cheering for Evelyn.  

Gin Stephens: “My total cholesterol dropped 30 points and the nurse said, that doesn't usually happen without medicine. Amazing. My blood pressure and blood glucose numbers are near perfect and today I saw my eye doctor for the first time in a year. He made the comment that the health of my eye looks like a 20-year-old. He has never said that in all the years I've seen him. He mentioned that my eye pressure, which I take daily drops for, has gone down. He seemed pleased with that. I also realized today that I no longer have any floaters. They've disappeared." For anyone who doesn't know that's, when you see these little spots like floating in your field of vision that just pop up. You think there's like something floating in the air, but it's just something in your eye, in your field of vision.  

All right, she said, "They've disappeared. That must be autophagy at work doing its thing, cleaning up the old and used up parts. It's been exciting to see how my health has improved in such unsuspecting ways because of IF. Okay, my question, as part of my turning 50 and becoming an empty nester, losing weight, and just enjoying life in this new season, I started giving blood. I have never done it before and so, unwittingly went to the blood drive without eating breakfast, a good 12 to 14 hours into my fast. I got through all the screenings with good “grades” and then they casually asked me, “You've had a good breakfast, right?” “Um, no, I hadn't.” They almost turned me away. I promised them that I am very much used to not having breakfast and that if I were to get dizzy, I would tell them. I know that for many people who are not fat adapted, giving blood without their regular source of energy stocked up may not be good. But do you know if you must or even should eat either before and after, and when donating blood? They also offered food afterwards too. I will gladly break my fast to give blood several times a year if I must, but must I? Can you see a day when this eating protocol is different as more and more IF people show up at blood drives? Thank you for fielding this question and rejoicing with me on the non-scale victories."  

After reading this, I'm so curious. I wish Evelyn had said how she felt after giving blood in the fasted state because that would be very instructive. Because she said, they almost turned her away, but it sounds like they didn't which sounds like she followed through giving blood in the fasted state and in which case, it would be very interesting to see how she felt because I'm a big believer in listen to your own body, and how you feel, and if she felt perfectly fine after giving blood, that would be a big indication that it works well for her body. Again, they have food afterwards. If you feel that dizzy, low blood sugar, there's something there you could eat it. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, because it does sound like she actually gave the blood. When I first heard her question, I was thinking she didn't. Let us know, Evelyn, if you did give the one the fastest day and how you felt. I will note, she was saying that maybe because she's fat adapted, that she would be less likely to be dizzy or faint. I do not recommend people give blood in the fasted state. It's actually not about blood sugar, it's about blood pressure. So, it's not something that has to do with your fat burning metabolism. So, not everybody faints, but it just has to-- Well, obviously, because people are fainting left and right. But it has to do with how your body reacts to a perceived blood pressure dropped that can happen pretty quickly from giving a large amount of blood. It's obviously up to you if you want to try. I have fainted before with blood, and it's a very unpleasant experience, and I don't wish it on anybody. It's not terrible, but if you haven't fainted, it's surprising. 

Gin Stephens: I have never fainted ever, not in my entire life. You probably could have guessed that, right?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I probably could have.  

Gin Stephens: Has Gin ever fainted? Yes, or no? No, Gin has not. 

Melanie Avalon: Has Melanie? Yes. It's just funny. I have only fainted once from a blood draw, and it was forever ago. But still, just because it's such an intense experience-- because you feel like you're dying because you don't know what's happening and then, you wake up and you don't know what happened, and it's just not pleasant, and what's really interesting, I do blood tests all the time, listeners know this. All the time. I still get nervous now because I fainted that one time, maybe this is something I can work on with a therapist or something. but I still get nervous. Even though I'm like a champ at blood tests. I'm always worried I'm going to faint. I do all my blood tests fasted, obviously, because we have to be usually fasted for blood tests. 

But giving blood is a whole another-- I would just be really nervous to be completely fasted and do a blood draw. But I would love to hear it. If any listeners who are doing fasting, I would love to hear their experience. So, yeah. I do think that's really interesting, though, that it's not related to blood sugar. Oh, something that has reassured me though about just getting blood tests is that the amount of blood they take for a normal blood test, it's negligible as far as your body reacting to it. So, if you faint from a blood test like I did, that's usually psychosomatic. It's not going to be because of this massive blood pressure drop most likely, that is possible when you're giving blood. Or, it could be psychosomatic blood pressure drop. But my point is, when you're giving blood, it's a physical amount of blood that can create that blood pressure drop compared to when you're getting a blood test where it's actually not a huge difference in your overall blood stream. Fun fact. Any thoughts, Gin? 

Gin Stephens: Well, this is just one of those things that I'm not comfortable saying yes or no to. I'm not going to say yes, fast or no, don't fast, because that's not-- I would always follow the recommendations of medical professionals before any procedure, even giving blood. If you're not doing it very often, go later in the day after you've eaten. If they want you to have something to eat before you get blood, go when your window is open. Then, now, we don't even have to worry about it. You're not having to sacrifice your fast or making them happy and whatever the reason is, maybe the reason is wrong and you don't need to, but I'm not going to say that. I would do it later, personally, when my window was already open just to not even have to ask the question or worry about it. That's just what I have to say about that. I never want to go against a medical professional. Does that mean I think every medical professional is always got the most updated information? No. We know that things change. Protocols change, recommendations change, doctors have different ideas about things, research changes. So, follow the advice. If you go to give blood and they say you should have had breakfast, then have something to eat, come back later. Go during your window. Better safe than sorry.  

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. If you eat, you're much less likely to faint, and then it will much more likely be a successful blood draw.  

Gin Stephens: Exactly.  

Melanie Avalon: All right. So, our next question comes from Stephanie. The subject is "Four-three window." Stephanie says, “Hello, I just love you girls. I've been doing IF for three months, and I'm down 25 pounds. I just love it. I recently started the four-three window. I only have 500 calories on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I've always done a 20:4 window. I was just wondering on my up days, do I fast for 20 hours still or can I start eating whenever I get hungry on my up days? Also, I'm a fitness instructor. So, I burn about 1000 extra calories a day and exercise. Should I up my low days to 1000 calories or stay at 500 calories? Thanks so much. So thankful for your podcast.” 

Gin Stephens: Well, this is a great question, Stephanie and I can answer it pretty quickly. Please do not fast for 20 hours on your up days. No, no, no, no, no. There's a lot of confusion with up days. And the research that was done on alternate daily fasting, they did not have any sort of fasting paradigm or window on updates. I mean, none. They were not instructed to skip breakfast, eat breakfast, eat in a window. They were just told on a down day, depending on the study, some down days were full fasts, and some down days were 500 calories depending on the study. And the up day was just, now you eat. So, they had the down day protocol they were following whether it was 500 calories or zero calories. Then the update, they were just instructed to eat normally. So, I'm pretty sure there was nobody in those studies that was also continuing to fast on the up day.  

We don't have data on that. We have no research on that. Maybe, there was somebody. When I say I'm pretty sure there wasn't, no, it wasn't reported in this study. Probably most of them ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That is why I make the recommendation for an up day to purposefully make sure you're eating at least two meals, at least six to eight hours. Just because it's hard for some of us that have been doing intermittent fasting with the time-restricted eating for a while. It's hard for us to wake up and have breakfast at 7 in the morning. So, we feel better delaying our breakfast or not eating first thing when we get up. But we need to consciously make sure we're eating at least two meals, at least a window of six to eight hours. But again, notice that at least that doesn't mean, okay, well then, I'm going to do six every day, that first question that we answered from Sarah, she's doing three 42-hour fasts a week. Just because I say at least six to eight hours doesn't mean all right, I'm going to go with six, because I'm really dedicated. Sometimes, we feel like more is better and it's not always. 

With alternate daily fasting, they found the metabolism didn't slow down from that alternate-- that rhythm. But the up days, they were eating more, of course, we don't recommend calorie counting. There's a lot of flaws with that, but I'm going to use the word 'calories' in terms of energy intake, they were eating more calories, then their bodies needed on the up days. I can't remember the percentage, 100 and something percent of their daily caloric needs on up days. So, you want to eat more food. It needs to be up. You want to slightly overeat on up days. So, if you're comparing an up day to a normal day when you're not doing intermittent fasting, you want to slightly overeat on an up day. If you're doing a four-hour eating window on an up day, are you going to be slightly overeating? Doubtful.  

Oh, for the other part of Stephanie's question, the research on alternate daily fasting, they were right around 500 calories, and it didn't matter how active you were, if you were a man, if you were a little tiny woman, it was just. “Hey, let's just do 500 calories.” If you want to have 1000 calories, you could do your own approach to it. It won't be exactly the same as the researched alternate daily fasting, but if your body needs more than that 500 calories down day, you just try it and see if it works for you. That would be okay. Because you're still having that-- It's like a hybrid approach or you're modifying it. You just don't want to over restrict. You don't want to err on the side of over-restriction is my point. 

Melanie Avalon: That was great. I was going to say it was-- You used my word 'hybrid approach.' I guess the thing to clarify is just in general with ADF, it's not like you adjust your calorie intake based on your activity to do ADF, which I think might be the confusion maybe for people. They think, “Oh, it's 500 calories, but I adjust for my activity.”  

Gin Stephens: Everybody was assigned the same 500 calories on the down days. Although in Dr. Johnson's book, I can't remember the title of it but it was one of the early ADF books out there, he actually did have like men can-- maybe 600 calories. I don't know. There was a little bit of variability in there, but he was just basing it all just on calories. It was before we really understood, there's a lot more going on than just calories. 

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to put a link in the show notes. I'm listening to an interview. It's the latest interview on Peter Attia. It's with Steve Austad, PhD. It's making me so happy. They're diving deep into studies on calorie restriction, especially because there have been quite a few studies that have been confusing. There was the one in the rhesus monkey studies and the monkeys on whole foods diet versus I don't know the exact details, but it was calorie-restricted monkeys on either a whole foods type diet or calorie-restricted monkeys on a processed diet. 

Gin Stephens: I don't think I've ever seen a monkey study with ultra-processed and whole foods. 

Melanie Avalon: I don't think it was one study. I think it was two different institutions. But it's been something that has been perplexing, because I believe there was greater benefits in the process diet monkeys. Basically, the takeaway was that when you're eating a whole foods diet, there might be less benefit to gain from calorie restriction compared to when you're on a processed diet. That's been a conundrum, and then there was something I talked about when I interviewed Dr. Steven Gundry. There were two different mice studies looking at mice on processed diet or whole foods, and perplexing findings with the mice eating the processed diet experiencing greater benefits. I don't know if it's because it was like protein amounts. But Dr. Steven Gundry's theory and it's the theory that I immediately thought of when I read it was that by eating a processed diet-- because they only put out the food a certain amount of time. By eating the processed food diet, it actually created a longer fast because they ate it so fast and it was digested fast. 

In any case, there's been a lot of really interesting studies on calorie restriction in rodents and monkeys and perplexing findings, and so, if you listen to that episode with Peter Attia there, I'm only halfway through it, but they're diving deep into it. They also talk about that famous calorie restriction study. You know the biosphere where the people went in? They were talking about that too. And he's been talking about how calorie restriction in rodents in the wild actually, probably does not lead to longevity. It actually reduces lifespan. I'll put a link to it. It's really, really interesting.  

Gin Stephens: That does sound really interesting.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes, but you did an excellent job answering that question. [giggles] Gin's got it.  

Gin Stephens: Well, I know how to answer these questions because I've heard them all in the Facebook groups back in the day. That's why I love helping people. Melanie is the one who loves what are the monkeys doing. [laughs] I mean that with love Melanie and I'm like, “Let me tell you the nuts and bolts of this of how you can make this work for your life with your question." [laughs]   

Melanie Avalon: I think that's why you make a good team.  

Gin Stephens: I think so too. 

Melanie Avalon: Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. So, a few things for listeners before we go. Again, the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode229. There will be a full transcript there, all of the links. I'm plugging it again, definitely get on my email list for the serrapeptase at melanieavalon.com/serrapeptase. You can submit your own questions for the show, just directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast. I'm @melanieavalon and Gin is @ginstephens. 

All right, well, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?  

Gin Stephens: No. I think that's it. Next time, I will be coming to you from the beach.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. I'm excited. [laughs] I'll talk to you then.  

Gin Stephens: All right, bye-bye.  

Melanie Avalon: Bye. 

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcast, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. The music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week. 

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Aug 15

Episode 226: CGMs, Blood Glucose, Large Volume Eating, Electrolyte Balance, Cryo-Toning, Infused Water, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 226 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Take Charge Of Your Digestion With Masszymes - The Most Powerful Enzyme Support Available! Go Tmasszymes.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save Up 10% Off Any Order!

FEALS: Feals makes CBD oil which satisfies ALL of Melanie's stringent criteria: it's premium, full spectrum, organic, tested, pure CBD in MCT oil! It's delivered directly to your doorstep. CBD supports the body's natural cannabinoid system, and can address an array of issues, from sleep to stress to chronic pain, and more! Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

LMNT: For Fasting Or Low-Carb Diets Electrolytes Are Key For Relieving Hunger, Cramps, Headaches, Tiredness, And Dizziness. With No Sugar, Artificial Ingredients, Coloring, And Only 2 Grams Of Carbs Per Packet, Try LMNT For Complete And Total Hydration. For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BIOPTIMIZERS:  Go To masszymes.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save Up 10% Off Any Order!

18:20 - FEALS: Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

21:05 - Listener Feedback: Susan - Prolonged Fasting - Not A Fan 

24:05 - Listener Feedback: Emilie - Thank You LMNT

26:30 - LMNT: For A Limited Time Go Tdrinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!!

29:05 - Listener Q&A: Leslie - Splitting OMAD Up

These are a few of my favorite things!

Click here to try Daily Harvest, and save $25 on your first delivery.

Cynthia Thurlow on the Benefits and Myths of Exercise | The Megyn Kelly Show

Never Binge Again™: How Thousands of People Have Stopped Overeating and Binge Eating - and Stuck to the Diet of Their Choice! (By Reprogramming Themselves to Think Differently About Food.)

46:15 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

48:35 - Listener Q&A: Tish - Cryo-Toning - Follow Up

The Science Of Fat Cells: Losing Weight, Gaining Weight, Killing Fat Cells, Liposuction, Body Contouring, CoolSculpting®, ECM Remodeling, And More!

56:40 - Listener Q&A: Paul - Is Infused Water Breaking Fast?

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 226 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing your when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine - Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it’s that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi friends, a really good question to ponder is, can you avoid all digestive issues by only eating organic whole foods? Don't I know that this would be absolutely amazing, but sometimes, it's not exactly possible. Our natural ability to digest food actually declines as we age. This is because our body produces fewer enzymes, which are the proteins responsible for digesting food. Fewer enzymes mean more difficulty digesting food. Even organic whole foods don't necessarily provide enough enzymes to properly digest them. This is especially true if you cook your food because cooking kills enzymes. This is why you may have digestive problems even after a healthy meal. Your body just can't produce enough enzymes to get the job done. This is where supplementing with a high-quality enzyme supplement can be a huge help.

I personally adore MassZymes by BiOptimizers. Trust me, our audience tells us all the time how much MassZymes is a game changer for them. It’s a best-in-class supplement that is loaded with full spectrum enzymes for digesting proteins, starches, sugars, fibers, and fats. Taking MassZymes daily helps top off your enzyme levels and replace the enzymes your body may be no longer producing. This means we'll be able to eat all sorts of delicious food, and digest them quickly and effortlessly. After you start taking MassZymes, you may notice that you no longer feel bloated after meals and that your belly feels flatter. I 100% experienced this. If you have leaky gut, MassZymes could reduce gut irritation and help you absorb more nutrients. Friends, life is too short to suffer from digestive issues. Don't I know it? You can try MassZymes risk free and see what improvements you notice. We have an exclusive offer just for our listeners. You can go to masszymes.com/ifpodcast. If you use that link, you will get an exclusive 10% discount already applied. Again, that link is masszymes.com/ifpodcast. M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S dotcom forward slash I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. We'll put all this information in the show notes. All right now back to the show.

Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 226 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am fabulous, and my eyelashes look amazing.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, did you get Beautycounter’s new mascara?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, that's it. I was so excited.

Gin Stephens: It's what I've been waiting for, because as much as I love Beautycounter, their mascara didn't blow me away. It was literally the only thing was that they're all mascara. I was using another safe mascara that I was like, “Darn, I wish Beautycounter had the great mascara.” They came out with a new one, and it was right now, we can only-- it's not available for the public yet, but it's about to be. So, by the time this comes out, will it be?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, it should be.

Gin Stephens: But it's amazing. It is better than any mascara I've ever used in my life. That's how excited I am.

Melanie Avalon: I think this is the most exciting thing you've ever told me. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: I couldn't wait to tell you.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. I'm so happy. For me, my mascara history, I've always been a mascara combiner because I could never find one mascara that would do everything I wanted.

Gin Stephens: I'm too lazy. I'm not going to combine anything.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. I was using Beautycounter’s volumizing mascara, and then, I was using Pacifica, and I was blending them. Then, they just sent the new one which is called Think Big, I think.

Gin Stephens: I think so.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: It's gotten big in the name of it.

Melanie Avalon: It's amazing.

Gin Stephens: It just goes on big. It goes on-- [laughs] Anyway, I love it.

Melanie Avalon: I'm so happy. Yes, listeners, do not pass go. Go get this mascara right now. For listeners who are not familiar, we love Beautycounter, because they were founded on a mission to remove endocrine disruptors from makeup. Gin, with her new book coming out now as well as me knows all about.

Gin Stephens: It's a huge deal on, didn't want to listen, but [laughs] I switched because you were so excited about it. I'm like, “Well, okay. Cleaning up is never a bad idea.” Then, I did the research for Clean(ish). Then, I'm like, “Okay, this is really, really important.” I didn't really connect all together. Yeah, we know, we want to have things that are safe, but our toxic load is so much bigger than it was before.

Melanie Avalon: It's huge.

Gin Stephens: That's the thing. It might not have mattered 20 years ago to the point that it matters now, because it all adds up. It's like our bucket gets more and more full.

Melanie Avalon: I'm reading a book called Diet for Sex written by an acupuncturist. It's actually very interesting. But she was having a chapter on endocrine disruptors and toxic compounds in our environment, and she said-- I think it was like, what is it the World Health Organization released a statement? They basically came up with nine environmental toxins that are a problem for us. So, this was the Environmental Burden of Disease project that the World Health Organization did. They basically found nine compounds, and the scientists concluded that 3% to 7% of the burden of disease in Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands, which I feel-- I don't know, I feel the US has just as many if not more compounds than those countries.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm sure we do. Because our criteria are not as strict here.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. It was attributed to environmental pollutants, which is like-- That's a big statement for them to make. If you think about it, there's basically three avenues. There's our food, which we often-- I think a lot of people focus on cleaning up their food, because you're directly putting it in your body. There's our air, the environment that we live in. But then there's our skincare makeup that we're putting directly on our skin, and it can directly go into our bloodstream. It's very, very shocking the implications that it can have.

Gin Stephens: Oh, and I had my attorney meeting for my book.

Melanie Avalon: Should I get the link really quick?

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. Get the link. So, if listeners would like to clean up their skincare makeup, you can shop with us, and our link is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. Get that mascara.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I'm a huge fan. I just had my meeting with my attorney for Macmillan. I’ll show you though, attorney that-- I don't know. We didn't do that for Fast. Feast. Repeat. Maybe, they did it and just didn't call me. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: Like the law department?

Gin Stephens: I never had a call with the law department for Fast. Feast. Repeat. They must have just looked at it on their own. But this attorney called me on it because you said you had one for What When Wine. I was super nervous. I was so nervous.

Melanie Avalon: Interestingly, when I had mine, because I was on Imprint, but the attorney was that Norton like the head.

Gin Stephens: This was from Macmillan, yeah. even though I'm at an Imprint too.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, cool.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I'm with St. Martin's Press. Well, it was awesome. I was so scared. It's like, “I'm so scared.” She's like, “Don't be scared.” She was very complimentary about the book. She said, I love the way you phrase things like a scientist. Of course, I'm married to a scientist. Things are rarely “proven.” We have evidence. Anyway, she was pleased with the way I wrote it. That was good. It was just a few little wording things. She's like, “Instead of saying hazardous, maybe you should say problematic.” I'm like, “All right, fine.” It was a tiny little thing. It was nothing big.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, that's amazing.

Gin Stephens: It was amazing. I feel so good. She said she's going to make changes in her life after reading it.

Melanie Avalon: I remember that was happening with me when the people that were reading it. It's so wonderful. It's like, “That's great. That's so exciting.”

in Stephens: Well, yeah. When I was reading my other book for Audible or for, well, I was reading for the audiobook, the director was like, “I'm going to start intermittent fasting.” [laughs] Every day, he was like, “Oh, that sounds really-- You make it sound fun.” I’m like, “Yay.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: With this, our people wanting to clean up their environment or they--?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, she's a mom, and she's got kids and she says, she's inspired to do it for a family, and also, there's just one chapter about intermittent fasting, but she also was interested in that.

Melanie Avalon: Well, that's amazing.

Gin Stephens: Because it's not an intermittent fasting book. But in the-- Let your body self-clean section. Intermittent fasting is not the only way we let our bodies self-clean, of course. It's just one way our body self-cleans.

Melanie Avalon: You don't tell me the exact date, but will you have galleys soon?

Gin Stephens: I will. I'll get you a galley.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. Can we book you for my show?

Gin Stephens: Pretty sure can. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: [laughs]

Gin Stephens: We can. That would be fun.

Melanie Avalon: Oof, exciting. [laughs] Awesome.

Gin Stephens: I'm really proud of this book, because I don't think there's one book that necessarily puts it all together in the same way that I did where it's talking about your food, and what you're putting on your body and, your cleaning products, and things you're surrounding yourself with, but also trusting your body to do some stuff, too, and there's so much we can do, and then letting you decide as a reader what you're willing to do. There's no like, “This is what you must do." Anybody who knows me knows I'm not going to tell you exactly what to do. But it's guiding you to find a way that is going to be cleanish for you.

Melanie Avalon: I'm so excited to read it.

Gin Stephens: Well, go ahead. I hope you love it.

Melanie Avalon: I forgot. Is it similar length to your last book?

Gin Stephens: It's longer. It's 400 pages.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow.

Gin Stephens: I know.

Melanie Avalon: Are they going to hyperlink your references or the references are in it?

Gin Stephens: Well, we were just talking about that, actually, yesterday. A lot of my references, of course, a lot of journal articles, but a lot of them are also things from the EPA or the World Health Organization, documents like that, that I used for my sources. In the reference section, some of them, like if it's an EPA document, for example, that lives on the web, they're going to put the name of it, and describe it, and then a hyperlink for it. I think you'll be able to hyperlink through the reference section in the electronic version.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. That makes sense.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I'm not sure what the others will look like, because the beauty of having editors is they do all that. Even for the journal articles that you're getting from PubMed, they've all got a link that you can put. So, instead of me trying to format the journal articles, I didn't even bother, I just said, "Here they are. [laughs] Y'all do it, however you want to." It's amazing. That's like, I feel so good.

Melanie Avalon: Well, congratulations. I'm very excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Thank you.

Gin Stephens: Anything up with you?

Melanie Avalon: I've been wearing a CGM again, because I remember I was wearing CGMs for quite a while, and then I got burnt out. Well, I just got tired of monitoring. So, I put one on again. I'm very, very happy. This time around, even though, I'm eating the same diet, I'm not really sure what changed. It's very interesting. I want to share this. Probably, you will get higher blood sugars while fasting and stuff like that. The one I'm wearing right now is Levels. I'm going to be interviewing Kara again at NutriSense. I'm going to ask her about my specific pattern.

But my pattern right now, pretty consistently is-- so, I eat at night, a huge amount of food, and then, usually right before for eating, it's usually in the 70s or 80s, and then, I eat-- It doesn't usually go above 120, and then, it comes down all night. It pretty much stays in the 70s or 80s after that. What's interesting is, I wake up, it's usually like in the 80s. I have a little bit of coffee, I get going, every morning, it spikes to 110, 115. This is when I'm fasted, and then, it comes down after that and tends to get in the 80s again, maybe 90s, which I'd rather it be lower. I find that spike really, really interesting that happens in the morning with the coffee. So, it's very, very interesting seeing through data. Have you worn one recently or--?

Gin Stephens: No, Levels is sending me one. Yep, I got an email today that said, it's on the way.

Melanie Avalon: When you did Zoe, did you were one that you could monitor?

Gin Stephens: Well, it was a FreeStyle Libre. You can look at it directly on the monitor, but it's hard to tell the data. You're just barely able to just see zigzags. So, I found a third-party website that you could work with like you would.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, so, sort of like what Levels and NutriSense is doing.

Gin Stephens: Exactly. Yeah, it was a third-party website where you could plug in the monitor to your computer and it synced it with the website, and then, it told you your numbers. Yeah, so, I was able to look at them specifically, but only because I took that extra step.

Melanie Avalon: Basically, for listeners, I probably should have given some definitions. So, CGM is Continuous Glucose Monitor. You put it on-- I'm actually putting another video on my Instagram pretty soon showing how you put it on. So, that'll probably be out by the time this airs. So, you can check that out. But it's painless to apply, it measures your interstitial fluid, so the fluid around your cells, and measures your blood sugar continuously, which is very, very cool. I like to personally check it against a glucometer, like a fingerstick that you have at home, just to make sure that it's accurate because sometimes they can be off, but the precision is usually never off. The accuracy can be off, but the precision usually isn't. So, what that means is, if it's off by 10 points or something--

Gin Stephens: It's always off by 10.

Melanie Avalon: It's always off by 10. Yeah, it's not going to be all over the place. Mine right now seems to be spot on, which is really, really nice. But they're usually only available by prescription. So, there are companies now, like I just mentioned, Levels, NutriSense, that are giving access to people to get them. I have links for both of those. If listeners want to get one for themselves, so for Levels, they're actually on a waitlist. They have 115,000 waitlist of people, which is crazy. You can skip the waitlist with my link. It's melanieavalon.com/levelscgm. Then, NutriSense, they're not on a waitlist, but I have a discount. It's melanieavalon.com/nutrisensecgm. MELANIEAVALON will get you some sort of discount. A pretty good one, I think. But it's just really, really eye opening, and it was really fun to bring it back after not having done it for a while. I still want to do it while I'm doing carnivores or something, and see what that looks like.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that would be interesting. I think mine was just delivered literally right back this minute because FedEx just knocked on the door.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. Gin, are you going to put it on?

Gin Stephens: Well, not right this second. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Are we excited? Let me know. Let me know if you do. Oh, another little note. I don't know if you know this, Gin. You want to give it at least 24 hours before you judge its accuracy even?

Gin Stephens: That was the same with the Zoe one. They said, “Let it settle in.” [laughs] get used to you.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I'm trying to figure out when I want to do it, because it's good for a month, right?

Melanie Avalon: Nope, two weeks.

Gin Stephens: Oh, only two weeks? Okay. All right. Well, then that. I'm going to the beach and I'm going to be there for three weeks. So, I don't know that I want to be wearing it while I'm at the beach. I'm going to get in the water and yeah, in the ocean, and it won't be my normal routine, people are coming to visit.

Melanie Avalon: I will say that the two things that make a huge difference. Taking the berberine really, really helps, and after I do cryo, it drops and then it stays low. What's interesting, too, is when I do the cryo, it spikes really high, and I don't know if it's actually spiking or if the cold is freaking out the sensor, because after that, it goes down, and it goes down lower than what it was before.

Gin Stephens: Well, then, that actually it sounds like it's doing something. It's like blasts the glucose out of where it's hiding, and, then you’re low, isn’t that would it sound like? [giggles] If afterwards, it went back to normal than that would be yeah, the cold freaks it out. But it goes lower. So, it's blasting it out. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: I need to do more research.

Gin Stephens: My scientific language is just-- [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. This is how we talk on this show.

Gin Stephens: My cryotherapy blasts out the glucose. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, that's funny. People have reported to me during cryo that their blood sugar, wearing CGM said it dropped really, really low. One girl told me that she would faint in cryo from dropping too low. So, in any case--

Gin Stephens: Or, maybe, your body needs more while you're going through that cold. Maybe, your body uses it up. Your body's like, “Oh, my God, this glucose, I got to use it up,” because I don't know, because of the cold.

Melanie Avalon: But it's a really big spike. It goes from 85 to 125, and then it drops down to 70s.

Gin Stephens: Something's happening.

Friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get 50% off a product that has truly changed my life. Do you experience stress or anxiety or chronic pain? Do you have trouble sleeping at least once a week? If you do, trust me, you are not alone. I personally have explored so many avenues for how to have a healthy relationship with stress and finding the world of CBD oil has been absolutely incredible for that. After doing more and more research, I realized just how incredible the health benefits of CBD are. CBD regulates your cannabinoid system, like an adaptogen, making you feel better naturally. It's not addictive. It's not a crutch. Basically, it's just helping your body function better when it comes to stress, anxiety, pain, and sleeplessness. I take it daily for my mood, and the effects are profound. In fact, I even got robbed last year and I went from crying with stress and anxiety to taking some Feals and laughing. I said to my mom, “Mom, see how effective this is.”

Due to all of its health benefits, we knew we wanted to partner with a CBD company for the podcast, but I have very stringent criteria. You guys know this. So many brands approached us, and I kept just saying, “No,” because nothing fit all of my criteria. I wanted CBD oil that was full spectrum, tested for purity, organic, made with MCT oil as the carrier and that I actually experienced benefits from. That's a pretty tall order to fill. We said no to a lot of brands and then Feals came along. It was meant to be. I personally tried it out and started seeing massive effects on my sleep and stress. Feals is so easy to take. You can just put a few drops under your tongue, and you'll feel the difference within minutes. I truly do feel it within minutes.

Of course, it is important to remember that CBD works differently for everybody based on your own unique cannabinoid system. So, you might need to work to find your perfect dose. Experiment over the course of a week or so, and you may find that you need more or less depending on the effects that you're looking for. I'm also super grateful because they have an incredible offer for our audience.

You can start feeling better with Feals. Become a member today by going to feals.com/ifpodcast and you'll get 50% off your first order with free shipping. That's F-E-A-L-S dotcom slash ifpodcast to become a member and get 50% automatically taken off your first order with free shipping. feals.com/ifpodcast. When you get that offer, you'll be joining the Feals community, and you'll get Feals delivered directly to your doorstep every month. You'll save money on every order. Of course, you can pause or cancel anytime. Definitely try it out for the first month with our code for 50% off and see how it works for you. We'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon: All right. So, to start things off, we have some feedback. This comes from Susan, and the subject is "Prolonged fasting, not a fan." Susan says, I recently listened to Episode 223. I'm a fan of not always having the same fasting/eating window every day. I teach water aerobics, and in the summer, jump from 6 classes a week to 10 to 12. I have had to shorten my fasting window on busy days. On Sundays, off day, I can do a longer fast. I listened to my body and don't beat myself up if I eat earlier one day. It's about being healthy and working with your body. Thanks for your podcast. By the way, I am 63, five feet tall, weigh 135 pounds. Not my ideal weight, but I focus on how fit I am, and how much better I feel. Only been fasting for five months. So, still a work in progress."

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I think Susan is a perfect example of being responsive to your changing daily schedule. Gosh, I'm hungry just when I swim a little bit in the ocean for 30 minutes. I can't imagine doing 10 to 12 water aerobics classes a week. That's like two a day or even more than two a day really, because if she's only doing-- well, If she's doing it six days a week, that would be two a day with 12. Anyhow, that's a lot of exercise and also being in the water that uses a lot of energy just because of the water temperature. Your body needs to compensate for being in the cooler water. So, you're going to need more fuel. That makes perfect sense. I'm a big fan of doing exactly what you're doing, Susan, and listening to your body, and all of that exertion, especially in the water, your body needs more fuel. So, good work.

Melanie Avalon: I love what you said. I’ve been thinking about it. I feel there are two major mentalities or things I see happening from the intermittent fasting movement that I think are a little bit problematic, and that I want to dismantle. One of them is what you just said. It's that people-- or I don't know, if you said this exactly, but people I think get really, really rigid with their fasting windows and think that they can't adjust it, or they can't try different things. I don't know, I think there's more of an intuition that can come into play, especially after you've been doing fasting for a while. Maybe not right at the beginning when you're trying to figure it out exactly but afterwards, I don't ever want there to be fear about having to stay in this exact window and not evolving with your body with your fasting window.

The second thing, and I feel we might circle back to this with some other questions, because I think people often think that fasting is the magic cure all and that what you eat doesn't matter at all. It's just the fasting and the foods that you're choosing don't play a role. I think that's something to dismantle a little bit.

Gin Stephens: Yep, absolutely. Shall we move on?

Melanie Avalon: Sure.

Gin Stephens: We have feedback from Emily, and she says, "Thank you LMNT." I always want to call it LMNT, by the way. But you pronounce it element?

Melanie Avalon: Element. Mm-hmm, yeah.

Gin Stephens: LMNT. [laughs] It spelled LMNT for anyone who's wondering. All right, she says, "Hi, Gin and Melanie. I've been listening and IFing with y'all since the beginning, which I love. Thank you for all--" that was me. [laughs] That wasn't in the question. She said, “Thank you for all the information you share. After IFing for almost four years, I started getting horrible headaches in the evening after I ate my one meal a day. I recently upped my water intake to my body weight in ounces, so I knew I wasn't dehydrated." I'm going to pop in there and say actually, having more water than your body needs causes electrolyte depletion.

Melanie Avalon: It can. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. It's counterintuitive because we've been told that you must pound down the water, and you can't trust your thirst, and you must drink so much water. But when you're fasting, it changes things up, because food isn't coming in and you just having so much water. A lot of water in the fasted state actually can cause the problem to be worse than if you're drinking a lot while you're eating. That's just something to keep in mind. Because it can deplete your electrolytes more than if you were not doing intermittent fasting. So, just be cautious about that, because in our whole society, the common thought is, the more water you drink, the better. That is not true. It can actually be dangerous.

Anyhow, back to her feedback. She said, "I went ahead and tried the LMNT packets by Robb Wolf with my one meal a day, and poof, no more headaches. The orange flavor’s my favorite. Thanks for the recommendation." I really think that her electrolytes were being depleted by it by so much water and the element restored them. Keep in mind, she's having the orange with her meal, and that you can have all the flavored ones all you want during your eating window, but during your fast, stick to the raw and unflavored. That one is safe for clean fasting.

Melanie Avalon: I'm so excited because I'm interviewing Robb Wolf again next week actually, which has listeners know it well. I don't know if they know, but Robb Wolf is one of the main reasons I'm doing what I'm doing today, because I read The Paleo Solution back in 2012, and I've been a huge, huge follower of his work ever since then. I think he cofounded it, LMNT, because he realized the huge importance that electrolytes play, especially often people with fasting, and especially, people on ketogenic diets. I have so many questions for him next week. I'm so excited. But basically, electrolyte balance is just so, so huge, and it can be involved in a lot of things that people often experience. For example, they might think is keto flu or detox, but it might be electrolytes. So, things like hunger, and cramps, and headaches, and tiredness, and dizziness, and I get so many questions in my Facebook group about recommended electrolyte supplements, but most of them on the market are full of sugars, and flavorings, and additives, and it's just no bueno.

We love LMNT, because it's none of that. Gin just mentioned, they have the raw, unflavored one. That one's totally, completely safe for your fast. So, you can have it during the clean fast and it's all good. Then, they have so many flavors that are amazing, that are not safe for clean fast because they're sweetened with stevia. But you can have those in your eating window of course, and there's a lot of really, really yummy flavors. They have a chocolate one. They just released a great fruit, but I think it's sold out. They have a watermelon, which is my favorite. They have a citrus one that is really good if you want to make margaritas. We actually have an amazing offer for our listeners. You can get it completely free. My favorite is only we can give things away completely free. So, if you go to--

Gin Stephens: That is fun.

Melanie Avalon: I know. It's my favorite. So, if you go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast, you can get a sampler pack. It includes eight packets of four of their flavors. You'll get two raw, two citrus, two raspberry, and two orange. You pay $5 for shipping. If you don't like it, they'll even reimburse you the shipping. So, literally, you have nothing to lose. What's interesting about this is, when we first started our partnership with LMNT, I think they were testing this, testing if it was going to be cost effective to give it away completely free. Clearly, it is because they decided to keep doing this. So, clearly people are really liking it once they try it.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that proves it right there, if people keep buying it. Emily, super happy that the LMNT got rid of your headaches. Oh, and that orange flavor is her favorite, and that one is in the sample pack. So, get it now. All right. Shall we move on to our questions?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Right. We have a question from Leslie. The subject is "Splitting OMAD, One Meal A Day up." Leslie says, "Hi, I'm Melanie and Gin, I've been a very long time One Meal A Day eater. I've loved your podcast, especially learning the power of clean fasting. I recently got a CGM." Oh, that's exciting. [giggles] Oh, my gosh, I did not plan that. She says, "I love seeing the data in real time. From the data so far, I believe splitting my one meal a day into two smaller meals will help my blood glucose levels. I don't want my volume to be much bigger than it is five to six hour eating window most likely but need help actually reversing my volume eating ritual I've become so comfortable with. I know it's mostly psychological, but probably a bit physiological too, and need some practical advice.

Seems simple really, but would like some motivation from both of you. I know you've talked, Gin, about an “appetizer” before your meal, and Melanie, I think you've talked about some raw veg pre-meal but I just like some more ideas. I need a lot of evidence for my brain to prove that, number one, this can be fun, because it's actually more of a challenge for me than one meal a day. Number two, I can do it with ease and mental stillness. Thank you, and thank you so much for all of the value you put out there in the world."

Gin Stephens: Oh, thank you, Leslie. I actually have heard this from people who have been doing the monitoring through, of course, Zoe, and also through data-driven fasting, people who are using CGMs find that they do have better glucose control with a slightly longer, like you're saying, five-to-six-hour window, and moving eating to farther ends of it, like eat, wait a while, eat again. Of course, we wouldn't know this without CGMs. It's only been recently that we can get them to try them. We're learning a lot, and we're all different, of course, when it comes to how our bodies respond to what we eat. But the key for me is that when I open my window, I need to feel satisfied from it, as if I just tried to nibble a little bit and have a little something, then I'm like starving, and I tend to eat longer and more, because I'm trying to-- I don't know, it doesn't do it for me. It doesn't satisfy me. Lately, I'm doing really well opening my window. Have you ever tried Daily Harvest, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: No, I know, you're a huge fan.

Gin Stephens: I'm a huge fan, and if people want to read more about it, I have it on the Favorite Things tab at ginstephens.com, and they're actually, officially sponsoring Intermittent Fasting Stories Podcast, which is exciting. I've been using them for a while, and they have these harvest bowls and soups that I love, and I've really opened my window with that in those days, for real. I think they're vegan, but I'm not vegan. I might add some butter in there or whatever, but make it a little more satisfying, but I might not. Sometimes, I just do them the way they are. With their soups, I don't usually add as much water as they say. I just put a little bit of water, because I like them thicker instead of more of a soup. But because they're substantial, the ones that I tend to get are the ones that have beans, or lentils, or something like that. A lot of them have kale or sweet potato, and so, they just are so satisfying. I like them because they're hot even in the summer. They're hot, that satisfies me. The hot veggie centric, it fills me up, makes me feel good, and then, I'm perfectly fine to wait till dinner, and I'm not going around eating a bunch of stuff out of the kitchen. So, that would be my appetizers. Some people would consider it a lunch, but to me, it's the soup course. Again, you can find it on ginstephens.com on the Favorite Things tab, or you can just go to dailyharvest.com and use the promo code, IFSTORIES. That works.

Melanie Avalon: They've asked us, I think, before about sponsoring the show.

Gin Stephens: Well, I just really loved them. See that's for me, a lot of the companies that sponsor Intermittent Fasting Stories start off with I'm using them. Like Green Chef, for example. They sponsored this one too, and I was like, “Get me Green Chef,” to the company that finds my advertisers. [laughs] Because it starts with me, ease in them, and then I'm like, I really want this company because I use them and I love them. I also love their smoothies. What I'll do seriously, this is really what I do. I'll have my bowl, and then later, I eat dinner with Chad, and it is often Green Chef, which is funny. Then, later, to close our window, we'll have a Daily Harvest smoothie. I know that sounds nuts, but that really it like--

My mother was just here visiting and we had people over for dinner, so I had to make a big meal because there were seven people for dinner, and I spent so much money on dinner for seven at the grocery store buying all the ingredients, and then we had so much leftover even after the dinner for seven. I just love that it's easy. You’ve got the portion, you eat it, you move on. You don't have leftover everything. My point was that I spend more money at the grocery store than I do with these companies. But that's just the way I shop at the grocery store like a crazy person. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I would love. It'd be funny to see both of us side by side shopping at a grocery store.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I'm like, “Ooh, that looks good. I'm going to buy that,” and then, I come home and Chad says, “How much was that?” I'm like, “I don't know.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I go in and volume buy, pounds and pounds of the same three things.

Gin Stephens: Now, I'm wandering around buying a little bit of everything, and I always end up with flours, and this cheese, and that cheese, and yeah, crackers.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. [laughs] Totally a different, different cart than Melanie's cart.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. The meal timeline is like a crescendo for both of us. We start light and then there's the main and then light again.

Gin Stephens: But I can't start too light. If I start too light, then I'm eating more than I need. It doesn't satisfy me. I have to make sure whatever I start with satisfies me. I'm like medium-medium. Maybe, medium-light, medium-heavier if [laughs] that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon: With Leslie, she's asking how to, in a six-hour window, eat a meal, a smaller meal, stop eating, eat a smaller meal. That's what she's asking about. You know what's really interesting is, our mutual friend, Cynthia Thurlow, I was talking to her yesterday, because she was on Megyn Kelly's show yesterday.

Gin Stephens: Oh, my gosh, that's so exciting.

Melanie Avalon: Isn't that so exciting?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: We were like fangirling. I listened to it, and it was really good, and I just thought about it, because she talks about this. Megyn asked her to talk about something about the eating window and not snacking between the meals and the eating window. Then, Megyn asked like, “Oh, should you not snack between the meals, if you're having a longer eating window.” I'm paraphrasing. I'll put a link in the show notes to that episode. But basically, what Cynthia was saying was, what Leslie had picked up on here, that people often have better glucose control when they're not overeating or volume eating, that maybe it can be practical to do what Leslie is talking about here. All of that said, I was hoping you were going to have really amazing advice, Gin, because [laughs] I want to do this in theory too, but it just doesn't work for me.

Gin Stephens: Well, the thing is that you just have to work with the appetite you have in the body, you have and what feels good to you. Like I said, If I eat too light, then I tend to overeat. So, I have to make sure I eat enough to be not overeating later. I have learned over time. If I just opened up with an avocado or something, then an hour later, I'd be in there ravenous. Wakes up the appetite, but it wasn't satisfied.

Melanie Avalon: The way my meal manifests is, it is volume eating, and it is eating for pretty much the whole time, but it's not high calorie the whole time. So, basically, and Leslie pointed this out or mentioned this, I basically start with a lot of cucumbers and wine. So, it's basically just hydration, and water, and easily digestible fiber. It's not actual lot of calories. Then, I have my meal-meal, which is lots of meat or seafood, and that's my big volume. Then, I usually munch a lot on fruit after for a long time. So, not at all the approach that Leslie trying to get to either for the attempt of trying a meal, and then stopping, and then a meal. I really like what Gin said about the importance of that first meal, if you're doing it, being something that is going to satisfy you in the moment. It's complicated because you don't want it to make you hungrier, but you don't want it to be the entirety of the meal, and then you don't want to eat again.

Gin Stephens: Well, for me, if I tend to be hungry or early, then, later I'll have a smaller amount at dinner. Sometimes, well, even though it's a meal for two that Chad and I are eating, let's say, it was a Green Chef meal, meal for two, we might get three meals out of that. I might not need the whole portion because I've already eaten. So, I'll eat a smaller portion. Then Chad, he's a light eater for a man. He always has been. That's why he's never had a weight problem. He is slimmer that probably than he was on our wedding day when he was 20. He's probably slimmer now than it was then. So, he's just really lanky and lean, but he's not a giant eater.

Well, he'll eat what I didn't eat for lunch the next day. Maybe he'll supplement it with a bowl of cereal, if it wasn't enough, but I don't always eat a whole complete meal later. I don't eat the whole portion. It just depends, I might. No, I don't need all that much. I might eat half a piece of meat, for example, instead of a whole piece of meat. Last night, that's what happened. We had a chicken meal, and I didn't eat the whole piece of chicken. I ate half the piece of chicken.

Melanie Avalon: Can I make a really quick chicken comment?

Gin Stephens: Sure.

Melanie Avalon: I think last night, remember you're talking about the rubbery chicken?

Gin Stephens: Did you get woody chicken?

Melanie Avalon: I think so.

Gin Stephens: Was it so gross in your mouth and you're like, “What's wrong with this chicken?”

Melanie Avalon: It felt like rubber.

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: It did not taste good. But it didn't taste like it was bad.

Gin Stephens: No, it's not like spoiled. It's just a different consistency. The meat has a different texture.

Melanie Avalon: What did you say causes that?

Gin Stephens: It's called woody breast syndrome.

Melanie Avalon: Is it a bacteria, or something, or is it--?

Gin Stephens: No, I don't think they know. They're like, “Why are these chickens weird?” I don't know. It's been a while since I read about it, but it's just something weird that makes the breast consistency different. It can't be good.

Melanie Avalon: I was eating, and I was like, “This is Gin's chicken.”

Gin Stephens: It probably is. The first time I had it, I had never had it before, and then, all of a sudden, it started happening all the time. It was a meal kit company that I don't use anymore that it was in all of their-- I got to the point I couldn't order chicken from them. But then, it started happening and the other ones, too. Anyway, it wasn't in last night's chicken.

Melanie Avalon: I'm torn now because there's just one brand of chicken I really like. I like Smart Chicken, because they're organic, and I really like the practices. I've researched the practices they do for raising their chicken, and it's usually really good. But if I do, I buy it in bulk because it's fresh. It's not frozen at the store. So, I buy it in bulk, and then, I individually wrap and freeze all of it. This was from three different containers. So, I don't know which container-- I'm like, should I just--

Gin Stephens: No, don't throw it out. You'll know. It also feels different when it's raw. You can tell the texture is different.

Melanie Avalon: It did when I was doing it. But the thing is, now, I guess I'm just lazy, because I'll have to cook them to find out if it's--

Gin Stephens: No, you can tell when it's raw. You don't normally thaw it before you cook it?

Melanie Avalon: I do, but you think I'll be able to tell when it's thawed from frozen?

Gin Stephens: I can. I can tell. Maybe, thaw too and then, you don't have to eat it that day. You can eat it tomorrow, both are good. Always have one ready to go and whatever, thaw two and use them like a day ahead of when you need it or like the next day. I don't know if I'm explaining that well. But I can tell like, if we get two in the day, when we were using the company that I don't use anymore, I would get two chicken breasts and they were different. You could tell, and I'm like, “Oh, that one's not going to be good. I'm not eating that one.” [laughs] I could tell.

Melanie Avalon: When I first bought it, it felt weird. I was like, “I wonder, if this is the rubbery chicken.” I should have just thrown it away then. Because now, it's all in the freezer. I don't know which is which.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, you can tell when it's thawed. But definitely you can tell, and it's weird. I can't eat it, so I'm picky now about my chicken. But I love good chicken.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, me too.

Gin Stephens: There was another meal kit company that I tried very briefly. They were out of California, and they're small. They're good for families, and they use some special chicken that really popular in LA. I can't remember the name of it.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, was it Mary’s?

Gin Stephens: No. It's a special breed of chicken. It wasn't a brand of chicken, it was a breed of chicken, like an heirloom breed of chicken and the breasts were tiny like chicken breasts used to be, because chicken breasts are little. I did a lot of reading about chicken like-- Oh, in The Dorito Effect, I think he talks about how chickens have been bred to be so different. The breasts are giant now, and they used to be little. All the great cooks were complaining about how chicken doesn't have a good taste anymore. But I'm like, “God, these were so good, this heirloom chicken. If you can get heirloom chicken with tiny little breasts, the old kind of chicken that hasn't been bred to be giant and weird-- think that's why they have the woody breast. They've been bred to be big. They grow differently. So, anyway, the old kind, it was the best chicken ever. But it tasted different. They didn't have enough options really for us. They didn't have enough choices. So, I didn't continue with them, but it made me really appreciate that heirloom chicken.

Melanie Avalon: Now, I want some chicken.

Gin Stephens: It started with a J. I can't remember the name of it, but it was a breed of chicken. I would eat that all day long. Well, except not all day long. I would eat it all day long in my eating window.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah. All in your eating window.

Gin Stephens: I might would eat that all day long. No, I'm kidding.

Melanie Avalon: Back to Leslie's question. I wonder what macros she's doing? I wonder if this would be an easier type of thing to do if you're doing a keto diet?

Gin Stephens: Well, not for me, because keto never made me feel satisfied. That would be a big no. I got to have starchy carbs to feel satisfied. That is just a fact about me. The lentils and the beans, that does it for me. The one with the sweet potato, that one is so good. It has wild rice, sweet potato, and avocado, and you might think that sounds weird because avocado hot, it's so good.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, have I had hot avocado? That does sound really good. My suggestion, I suppose, for this, even though, I have never been able to implement this myself, so take this with a grain of salt. But things I have heard is, she wants to reframe this as fun because it is more of a challenge, the one meal a day. Yes, I think it can be fun. You could see it as a fun experiment of trying to find the meals that work for you for doing this. You could try eating the first meal, and then, I think what's probably really important is putting everything away. Like having the meal in the kitchen, or whatever your living situation is, in the kitchen, finishing the meal, putting the food away, stopping. Rather than keeping it all open and out because then it's more likely that you're just going to keep snacking or keep eating, but being done, and then going and doing something completely different so that part of your brain, that meal association is done. Then, going and doing something else, but having the excitement of knowing that you have your second meal coming, and then going back and having your meal, and reopening the kitchen, and then rinse and repeat. That's the thing that I would recommend.

Then, I would recommend for the in between. I know this is not-- You don't struggle with binge eating. That's not what this is about. But I do recommend reading Dr. Glenn Livingston's book, Never Binge Again. It's a really short read. The Kindle is-- I just learned this, because me and Glenn are really good friends now. We actually talk on the phone a lot, and I didn't realize that the Kindle is actually always free, so you can get it on Amazon. It's a really, really amazing reframe for identifying that voice in your head that wants to eat when you don't need to be eating, or shouldn't be eating, or don't want to eat. So, I think it can be a really helpful practice for making this change if this is a change that you personally want to try to strive for. What it'll help you do is it'll help you in that in between the two meals, identify that voice in your head, that's like, “I want to keep eating,” because I'm assuming that's going to be the challenge of it. And how to adequately engage with that so that it's just not a problem. I would suggest reading that book. It's really short, and it's funny.

Hi friends, are you struggling to lose weight despite fasting clean? Maybe you're even making healthy food choices, fasting more, shortening your eating window, ramping up your exercise, and yet the weight won't budge? Well, we actually just found a major reason for why that may be. As it turns out, there are compounds in our environment called endocrine disruptors, meaning they mess with your hormones. Studies show that a lot of these endocrine disruptors are actually obesogens, meaning they literally make you gain weight. They also make it hard to lose weight. These toxic obesogens are naturally stored in fat. When they enter your body, your body creates fat to store them in to protect you. Once they're in that fat, they then change the genes in your fat stores, so that you are more likely to store more fat and less likely to burn it. They can also affect your insulin signaling and boost your appetite, so you want to eat more and store more fat.

Most of us are actually exposed to these obesogenic endocrine disruptors daily in our skincare and makeup. That is actually one of the largest sources of these compounds. Yep. As it turns out, when you're washing your face, putting on makeup, using lotion, or even putting on sunscreen, you are likely putting 1 of up to 1300 compounds banned in Europe for their toxicity- and obesity-causing potential but they're completely fine for use in US skincare. When you put them on your skin, you're making it that much harder to burn fat, and that much easier to store fat. So, if you're struggling to lose weight, you definitely, definitely want to clean up your skincare ASAP.

You can do that easily with a company called Beautycounter. They make safe skincare and makeup products that are extensively tested to be free of endocrine disrupters, obesogens, and other toxic compounds. They're truly safe and supportive of your health. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. If you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. If you'd also like exclusive discounts, giveaways, and the latest on the science of skincare, definitely get on my clean beauty email list. That's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. So, are you fasting clean inside and out? Well, now you can. All right now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes, we have a question from Tish, and the subject is "CryoToning follow-up." By the way, I don't think I have any cryo places here in Augusta at all. I think I got zero. I could be wrong. Anyway, if someone knows one in Augusta, that'd be interesting. I can't believe I'm asking that. [laughs] I've always said I would never do it. I would never do it, but I've got a little FOMO. I hate to be cold. I like to be hot.

Melanie Avalon: Are you in Columbia County?

Gin Stephens: I'm not in Columbia County. I am in Richmond County. Is there one in Columbia County?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: Oh, wait.

Melanie Avalon: Here's Cryo Care, Augusta, Georgia. The top 10 cryotherapies in Augusta, Georgia.

Gin Stephens: Oh, there is?

Melanie Avalon: Okay. You can go to Cryo Care.

Gin Stephens: Where's that?

Melanie Avalon: Ronald Reagan Drive.

Gin Stephens: That's Evans. Evans is where I used to teach.

Melanie Avalon: Why is it saying Cryo Care, Augusta, Georgia?

Gin Stephens: Like Atlanta, it has all the suburbs. Evans is a suburb of Augusta.

Melanie Avalon: I'll be searching while you read it.

Gin Stephens: Okay. [laughs] I'm not driving to Evans for cryotherapy. I just want to tell you that. [laughs] I don't like to drive to Evans for any-- It's so funny. It a whole different world. When you live in the city of Augusta, the city limits, you'll your small radius of where you go. We're not a big city at all, but I'm like, “I can only go these places.” [laughs] Do you drive to Evans for my massage therapists?

Melanie Avalon: Gin, it is women owned.

Gin Stephens: Well, okay, but--

Melanie Avalon: It has an oxygen bar and a sauna. But you have a sauna.

Gin Stephens: Okay. I have a sauna. But yeah, I only drive to Evans for my massage therapist and that is all.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, great. When you go for your massage, you can get some cryo. They're open from 10 to 7.

Gin Stephens: I don't know. Don't count on that. We'll see. All right, back to Tish’s question. She said, "I've been listening since fall of 2019, and have listened to every episode," and she has a smiley emoji. "Love, love, love the podcast. Really keeps me motivated and reinforces my fasting way of life. I've been one meal a day with a two- to four-hour window since November of 2019 and have lost around 50 pounds. In this last episode, you discussed CryoToning as a potential treatment for collagen replacement/sagging skin. I'm so interested in this topic, but really having a hard time finding the best home device to purchase.

I was wondering, Melanie, if you would really take a deep dive on this topic or did you already, and I missed it? I read your fat cell blog, but I would like more CryoToning specifically, since you said in the latest IF podcast, so, you thought this method might be the best. I am 54 and trying to live till I am 120. I went through menopause when I was 36 naturally, but it wasn't till I lost the 50 pounds that I noticed my skin changed significantly. I Joovv. I have the four-panel full body unit every day. I only eat ButcherBox meats in my clean whole food organic diet. I take P3-OM, MassZymes, Magnesium Breakthrough every day, and I only use Beautycounter products on my skin. I'm doing everything I can to live a cleanish life." Can't wait for this book. Yay. That was me. "I would appreciate your feedback/input. Thanks, and much love to you both, Tish."

Melanie Avalon: All right, Tish, wonderful question. I will put a link in the show notes to that blog that she mentioned. I did write a really extensive blog post about the science of fat cells and traditional methods to reduce them, and by traditional methods like liposuction, things like that. I did not have CryoToning in it at the moment. So, I'm going to add CryoToning to it. By the time this comes out, it should be there. That said, there are not home methods for this.

Gin Stephens: I was just going to say, I don't think there's a home method but-- [giggles]

Melanie Avalon: There are on Amazon. Please, this is not the type of thing that you want to be doing at home at all. At all. They have CryoToning and CryoSlimming. CryoSlimming is the one that's supposed to actually kill flat cells. CryoToning is just for collagen and sagging skin. But they use a combination of therapies. They use certain frequencies and heat and cold. For the CryoSlimming, it literally ruptures the fat cells, and then your body naturally excretes the fat cells to your lymph system. It also does some of the stuff that CryoToning does, and CryoToning helps tighten the skin and increase collagen production. I've been doing it on certain areas and seeing remarkable results.

Even the girl who does it to me, she's really wonderful, but she's very intense and very blunt. When I first went to her, she was like, “Why are you doing this?” She's like, “I don't want to do this on you because you don't really have much to address with it,” which I'm very grateful for, and I just want to make it clear that I'm very aware of this. But we've been doing it so much and she agrees with me. She's like,” Oh, this actually has made a really big difference.” I think it's really great, basically, regardless of where you're at. If you have a lot of things that you want to address with the skin tightening and the collagen production, you'll definitely see a result. But then also, if it's just fine tuning, and tweaking, and something that it just seems that diet and exercise aren't quite addressing, I think it can be that great final thing that is actually effective. I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't personally experienced the benefits. That said, to answer your question, you can't do it at home. I'm sorry. You have to find a place that does it.

Gin Stephens: So, the one you're doing is called what?

Melanie Avalon: I've been doing CryoSlimming and CryoToning. Cryoskin is the company. And then they have the two options, CryoTone and CryoSlim. Basically, they say that it works with your body's natural systems to produce slimming and toning effects. Noninvasive sessions result in slimmer, toned bodies and the elimination of fine lines and wrinkles. They use thermoelectric cooling to perform cryolipolysis which is the freezing of fat, which causes cell death of subcutaneous fat tissue without damage to the overlying skin. That's the CryoSlim. Then, the CryoTone uses cold temperatures to diminish the appearance of cellulite, tones the area, and improves skin elasticity by accelerating the biochemical reaction. Stimulation of collagen production occurs to rejuvenate and smooth skin while tightening muscles. It uses cold, heat, and massage. So, okay.

Gin Stephens: I will say that, if it was available in Augusta, I would be willing to try it. But I'm still skeptic, which you've heard me say before. But I would be willing to try it. But now that I'm officially 52 having had my birthday.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes. Gin had her birthday. Happy late birthday. I did. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yep. 52, that sounds bizarre to me. I can't believe I'm 52. But my skin really did change over the past year after menopause. It's surprising.

Melanie Avalon: Do you have your plant?

Gin Stephens: I do have my plant. Thank you, Melanie, sent me a plant.

Melanie Avalon: We have matching plants. I have that plant too.

Gin Stephens: I used to have one of those plants in my other house, and then, it died when we moved over here. I don't know why it died, but it died. But I've had it in the exact same place that we used to have the other one-

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yay.

Gin Stephens: -that died. It looks really cute there. So, hopefully it won't die.

Melanie Avalon: Is it a dollar tree?

Gin Stephens: Yep, or money tree. It's called a money tree.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, money tree. Money tree.

Gin Stephens: Yep. Will came over yesterday. He was painting, he was like, “I'm going to paint this plant.” So, he painted it.

Melanie Avalon: He painted the plant?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, he painted a picture of the plant. He didn't literally paint on the plant.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] Firstly, you have a big plant now?

Gin Stephens: No. He painted a picture of the plant. Yes, yes.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I’m so excited. That makes me happy. Happy late birthday.

Gin Stephens: Thank you. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon: So, hopefully, the answers your question, Tish. Hopefully, you can find a practitioner by you. I think we have one really short question we can answer really quick.

Gin Stephens: Okay.

Melanie Avalon: Question from Paul, "Is infused water breaking the fast?" Paul says, "Hi, ladies. Your podcast keeps my IF going. Thanks so much. I've been doing 16:8 for two months. I don't get any weight loss but I love that I can skip my breakfast. Life is much simpler and the fasting window actually feels great. I can handle more stress and I have less mental fatigue. Quick question. I find that drinking infused water during the fasting window helps reduce my hunger. I'm not talking about sweet fruits, but lemon, lime, cucumber, celery, mint, spinach, and ginger. Are they okay to drink? Thanks, Paul."

Gin Stephens: The answer is, no, Paul. They're not. I'm sorry. They are food flavors. We don't want to send any food cues from flavor to our body during the fast. You mentioned you've been doing 16:8 for two months, you're not losing any weight. I would start fasting without the infused water. You really shouldn't be getting hungry. It makes me think you're not fat adapted yet. Honestly, the infused water could be preventing that. Because if you're like starving, and it's just trying to get to lunch, and you're hungry, and you can't even get 16 hours without feeling so hungry that you need infused water, that lets me know you're not really getting the benefits from the fasted state. So, plain water, don't add lemon, don't add lime, don't add anything to it that tastes like food. Plain. No flavor, just water.

I know that sounds counterintuitive, but if it were me, I would try to have a slightly longer fast just till your body gets fat adapted. You've got to break through to get to the other side. Maybe try an 18-hour window for a little while. You see how that goes. Clean fast, plain water, black coffee, plain tea only. No flavors, fast clean, try 18 hours, I bet you'll find your hunger, boom, goes away. Then, also, if you're trying to get weight loss, maybe, you're not, maybe you just feel great, and that's your goal. Chad does a 16:8, never wanted to lose weight. He just feels better. But he also doesn't get hungry during the fast because he only drinks black coffee and plain water. So, try that.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. I knew you would answer that.

Gin Stephens: Absolutely. I knew what I would say. [laughs] I love when people are like, “I was listening to the podcast and I already knew how you would answer it.” Yeah, because I'm pretty consistent with my answer. So are you. We should probably have listeners try to answer it. That would be fun. Guess the answer. How do you think general answer this question?

Melanie Avalon: We could come up with some fun thing for our-- what episode is this? [crosstalk] 300th episode.

Gin Stephens: That'll be-- before you know it, it'll be 300. That's crazy. We've been doing this for a long time, and we've never missed a week airing one.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Right, right, right, right. Yeah, most podcasts have breaks, and time off, and best of. Not us.

Melanie Avalon: That's crazy. We've reflected on this before, but there have been times where we haven't recorded a certain week, but we pretty much talk almost every single week for how many years? Since 2017?

Gin Stephens: 2017, over four years, because we started in April or the first one came out May?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Four years? Wow. That's crazy. Well, it's been a lovely time. [laughs] For listeners if you'd like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com, and you can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode226. You can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.comstuffwelike. You can follow us on Instagram. I'm @melanieavalon, Gin is @ginstephens, and we're also @ifpodcasts on Instagram. So, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything from you Gin before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it. You can also follow me on Instagram as @cleanishgin. I haven't done anything with it yet. It’s pretty boring. [laughs] One day, there might be something there, besides my cat. I just had to put some pictures in, Instagram made me. They’re like, "You've got to put in some pictures," and I just thought put something-- you've already seen them. It's my cat and my chairs. Anyway, follow us on Instagram.

Melanie Avalon: Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right, bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. The music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Aug 01

Episode 224: Frustration In Gaining Weight, Hashimoto’s, Changing Diets, Headaches, Iron Supplements, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 224 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BUTCHERBOX: Grass-Fed Beef, Organic Chicken, Heritage Pork, Wild-Caught Seafood: Nutrient-Rich, Raised Sustainably The Way Nature Intended, And Shipped Straight To Your Door! For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get 2  Grass Fed Ribeye Steaks And 2 Lobster Tails All For Free!

 JOOVV: Like Intermittent Fasting, Red Light Therapy Can Benefit The Body On So Many Levels! It Literally Works On The Mitochondrial Level To Help Your Cells Generate More Energy! Red Light Can Help You Burn Fat (Including Targeted Fat Burning And Stubborn Fat!), Contour Your Body, Reduce Fine Lines And Wrinkles, Produce Collagen For Epic Skin, Support Muscle Recovery, Reduce Joint Pain And Inflammation, Combat Fatigue, Help You Sleep Better, Improve Mood, And So Much More!! These Devices Are Literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

PREP DISH: Prep Dish Is An Awesome Meal Planning Service Which Sends You Weekly Grocery And Recipe Lists, So You Can Do All Your Meal Preparation At Once, And Be Good To Go For The Week! It's Perfect For The IF Lifestyle! The Meals Are All Gluten-Free, Keto, Or Paleo, Which Is Fantastic If You're Already Doing So, But Also A Wonderful Way To Try These Out With No Feelings Of Restriction! Get A Free 2 Week Trial With The Paleo, Keto, And SUPER Fast Menus (Plus More!) At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get 2 Grass Fed Ribeye Steaks And 2 Lobster Tails All For Free!

4:00 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

20:30 - PREP DISH: Get a free 2 week trial At Prepdish.com/ifpodcast! You'll get weekly gluten-free and Paleo grocery and recipe lists!!

22:20 - Listener Feedback:  Sarah - From Vegetarian-Ish To Carnivore-Ish

30:40 - Listener Q&A: Laura - IF In The News

37:40 - Listener Q&A: Shelby - Frustrated

45:35 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

48:35 - Listener Q&A: Theresa - IF Headaches

51:30 - Listener Q&A: Roxy - Supplements

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 224 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I'm about to tell you how you can get two grass-fed ribeye steaks and two wild-caught lobster tails all for free. Yes, for free. We are so honored to be sponsored by ButcherBox. They make it so, so easy to get high-quality, humanely raised meat that you can trust. They deliver 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef, free-range organic chicken, heritage breed pork, that's really hard to find by the way, and wild-caught sustainable and responsible seafood shipped directly to your door.

When you become a member, you're joining a community focused on doing what's better for everyone, that includes caring about the lives of animals, the livelihoods of farmers, treating our planet with respect and enjoying deliciously better meals together. There is a lot of confusion out there when it comes to transparency regarding raising practices, what is actually in our food, how animals are being treated. I did so much research on ButcherBox, you can actually check out my blog post all about it at melanieavalon.com/butcherbox. But I am so grateful for all of the information that I learned about their company.

All of their beef is 100% grass fed and grass finished, that's really hard to find. They work personally with all the farmers to truly support the regenerative agriculture system. I also did an interview with Robb Wolf on my show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, all about the massive importance of supporting regenerative agriculture for the sustainability of not only ourselves but the planet. This is so important to me. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. If you recently saw a documentary on Netflix called Seaspiracy, you might be a little bit nervous about eating seafood. Now, I understand why ButcherBox makes it so, so clear and important about how they work with the seafood industry. Everything is checked for transparency for quality and for sustainable raising practices. You want their seafood. The value is incredible. The average cost is actually less than $6 per meal. And it's so easy, everything ships directly to your door.

I am a huge steak lover. Every time I go to a restaurant, I usually order the steak. Oh, my goodness, the ButcherBox steaks are amazing. I remember the first time I had one and I just thought this is honestly one of the best steaks I've ever had in my entire life. On top of that, did you know that the fatty acid profile of grass-fed, grass-finished steaks is much healthier for you than conventional steaks? And their bacon, for example, is from pastured pork and sugar and nitrate free. How hard is that to find? And now, you can celebrate this summer by savoring every moment. For a limited time ButcherBox is offering new members two free lobster tails and two free ribeye steaks in their first box. Just go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast, to receive this special offer. Yes, that's free lobster tails and ribeyes in your first box when you go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast.

One more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. Did you know that conventional lipstick for example often test high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body.

Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter, and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter.

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list. And join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 224 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I'm doing great.

Melanie Avalon: Great. What's new in your world?

Gin Stephens: Did I tell you last week? I don't know if I mentioned it on the podcast, Fast. Feast. Repeat. is now available in Spanish.

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: Did I say it on the podcast?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I think so.

Gin Stephens: Okay, well, I'm just so excited. I couldn't remember if I did. It's also in Italian. It's available for sale right now. Spanish and Italian, more languages coming.

Melanie Avalon: That's very exciting.

Gin Stephens: It is exciting. I don't even remember what languages are coming.

Melanie Avalon: I hope it's in French sometime.

Gin Stephens: I don't remember French if that one's coming, but the way it works, it's really different. A lot of people probably don't know, I just certainly didn't know, but the book is originally purchased, for example, by my publisher for the English translation or for the English rights-- I mean, there's no translation because, hello, I'm English, or I write in English, but the English version is what we were under contract for. The foreign rights are a whole different thing. Every company that is in another country is separate from my original publisher, and they have to negotiate for foreign rights for that specific language. They're all separate publishers. It's really interesting. I would have assumed that my original publisher would be the one that would just keep it and do the-- no.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. It's so interesting how everything works. Unless you are in that world, you don't realize all of the stuff that happens.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I had no idea. Then, with the foreign editions, you have so much less control over them than you do with the ones right here that are coming out of the US. Like the Italian one has a whole different name and the cover is funny. It's a cupcake. Have you seen the picture of it? It's like a cupcake with an on-off switch.

Melanie Avalon: No, you just told me about it.

Gin Stephens: Nobody showed me that or asked me about it before-- [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Because the evening window opens and we eat cupcakes.

Gin Stephens: Exactly. I guess, I don't know, but I thought that was just really funny and the name of it, is not Fast. Feast. Repeat. in Italian. I think the story for that one is translating Fast. Feast. Repeat. into Italian was weird, like the way they had to translate it made no sense. So, they had--

Melanie Avalon: So, what's the title?

Gin Stephens: I can't remember.

Melanie Avalon: I'm super curious.

Gin Stephens: It's an Italian, so I-- [laughs] But it's not Fast. Feast. Repeat. but it is Fast. Feast. Repeat. Anyway. Just look for Gin Stephens, that will help you find them if you're looking for them in another language.

Melanie Avalon: Is there like an Italian Amazon?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, they have Amazons all over the place and I know this because Delay, Don't Deny is self-published. I published it through Amazon's publishing arm, Amazon is my publisher, really. I get royalty checks from Amazon, but I get one from Amazon Canada and one from Amazon Europe. It's all like where Delay, Don't Deny sells, wherever Amazon sold it, I get a separate royalty check from them. It's fascinating. The paperback just became available in Australia for Delay, Don't Deny because Delay, Don't Deny is print on demand. So, when someone orders it, they print it. So, different places are printing it all over the world, but Amazon in Australia just started printing the American books. If it was published by me in America, you can now get it. You could get it before through several weird places that were probably all counterfeit. The Kindle version has been available in Amazon all the time, but they didn't have print on demand for American books, and now they do. Anyone wanting to get Delay, Don't Deny in Australia, you can now get the actual non-counterfeit version directly in Australia.

Melanie Avalon: Very nice.

Gin Stephens: It is nice. What's up with you, what's new?

Melanie Avalon: I'm really happy right now because Gary Taubes asked if I would tweet about our episode.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's good.

Melanie Avalon: If you had told me like 10 years ago, Gary Taubes would ask me to tweet about our episode-- so that he could retweet it. I don't know. I really like the surreal moments because I released that episode on Friday.

Gin Stephens: Well, that is so exciting that he loved it.

Melanie Avalon: I know. Well, it was more just like my assistant since the announcement email to the guest every week, he just said basically, “Can we tweet about it?” So, he could tweet? I was like, “Oh, of course, I can." And then I got on Twitter, because I haven't logged into Twitter in months, like months, and I had all of these-- like Dr. Steven Gundry had tweeted about me, I was like, “Oh my gosh.” So, I think I might start trying to up my Twitter game.

Gin Stephens: I do have some exciting news. I'm not going to tell all of it, but I can tell a little bit of it.

Melanie Avalon: What is that?

Gin Stephens: Someone that I love and respect and admire in the health and nutrition world, agreed to write the foreword for Clean(ish). I heard from his assistant that he is done with it. I haven't seen it yet. She's reading it and is going to get it to me next week. I don't want to say who it is till I have it in my hands. [laughs] Once I have it in my hands, I’ll announce who is writing the foreword for Clean(ish). No, it's not Jason Fung, if people are probably guessing, because it's not a fasting book, remember? I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon: I'm excited. I know who it is.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, you know who it is. But [exhales] it's someone I admire greatly, who does great science, and I can't wait to see what he said in the foreword. It really is exciting. I sent him a draft copy and said, “By the way, as you're skimming through it, if you see anything,” you're like, “this is just garbage. This is terrible. This book is the worst book ever,” you know how you're worried about books. But so far, I haven't gotten any emails like that. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I'm sure that was not even remotely the case.

Gin Stephens: Well, anyway, [exhales] I went through the copy editing this week as well, which, oh, I love copy editors. Y'all are the best, any copy editors that might be listening. They do a lot of work.

Melanie Avalon: They do. I cannot be a copy editor.

Gin Stephens: No, no, apparently, I could not be--[crosstalk] Anyway.

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. I feel like I might be good at it, but I wouldn't like doing it.

Gin Stephens: Well, I feel there weren't a lot of errors. It's not like there were a million things. It really only took me a couple hours to go through the copy edits, which was kind of amazing. I set aside like days, I was going to go through them, but it was like little things.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Oh, one other thing to share. There's this biohacking magazine. They were asking if I would write an article for it. So, I was trying to decide what to write on. I decided to write on either intermittent fasting for women, or early versus late night eating. I posted in my group about it and asked for what would people prefer? I think it's literally 50/50. People really want both articles. Now I'm trying to sit down, I'm going to do it early versus late night eating. I'm going to find all the studies and I'm going to read them and I'm going to see what's actually going on. But it's so frustrating. I found this one article that is talking about early versus late night intermittent fasting, and it's so frustrating

Gin Stephens: Is this the one where they didn't compare equal eating windows?

Melanie Avalon: It's a review. It's not a study. Basically, the first half of it talks about the hormonal differences between early and late-night eating and why early is better in theory, which I agree with. But then it talks about the actual studies on it. It's really confusing when an agenda is so blatant. It is just so obvious that they want to say early eating is better, because they make that case with the hormones. But then they talk about the actual studies, and literally at one point, they say that there's only one study that actually looks at this, and that it doesn't find a difference. Before that, they talk all about all of the studies on breakfast skipper problems and how breakfast eaters have health benefits, which again, I agree with, but I think it's because it's complicated and nuanced, and probably more has to do with the type of person that needs breakfast, and all of that.

When it comes down to it, they say that there's only one study and it doesn't show a difference. Yet, the conclusion they draw is that early is better with comments like how the data shows that, I'm like, “Wait, but you just said that there's only one study and it doesn't show that.”

Gin Stephens: Again, so much of the stuff they're looking at is in the paradigm of eating all day. So, if you're eating all day, you're going to be at a very different place by the end of the day than if you had fasted all day and eaten later. You're going to respond very differently to a meal at 4:00 PM if it's your first meal of the day, versus if now you it's your fifth time you've eaten.

Melanie Avalon: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I just don't think you can untangle that.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, and one of the other things that says, and this is where I was just like, "Oh my gosh," they say that, like people who eat late, the type of foods we eat at night are more sugary and fattening, I'm like, “Wait, breakfast cereals are pure sugar.”

Gin Stephens: When I was at the beach with my family, some of the members of the family, what they were eating at breakfast time, they bought like honeybuns. I'm not judging my family. I would feel so terrible if I ate that. I've never liked donuts, I think I've said that before, which is crazy. I just never have but like, I've never wanted to start the morning with a honeybun, but that is really the sugariest, most ultra-processed thing you could eat. It would set me up for a day of metabolic awfulness.

Melanie Avalon: What's so frustrating about it is you're making an argument where you're trying to analyze early versus late-night eating, it's not valid, in my opinion, to talk about the food composition, because that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about the timing. It's not even relevant. Then, on top of that, saying that you're more likely to eat bad foods at night. Okay, who-- that's not what we're testing. We just talked about how breakfast foods are usually pretty awful. So, I don't know. It's really frustrating.

Gin Stephens: I'm not convinced.

Melanie Avalon: I haven't seen anything that shows the hormonal profile being more supportive of late-night eating. So, in theory, it works better for the morning, but the practicality of it and people actually doing it, and what makes you sustainable, I think is way, way more important. This is what I think my conclusion is going to be, and I need to do more research because I just started, but I feel you're probably more likely to benefit from the window-- it is like with exercise, like the window that you do. So, if later eating window is sustainable, and that's what makes you happy, and that's what you can stick to, I think that's probably way better than forcing yourself into an early eating window.

Gin Stephens: Do you know what my best evidence is for any of this, is the fact that our bodies let us know what feels good. We get feedback from our bodies. When we just tell people, find the window that works for you, and then the great majority of them gravitate to a late afternoon to early evening eating window, that means something to me, that most people when they experiment with various eating windows, most people do not find morning is the one that feels right. For many reasons, like it makes me lethargic the rest of the day. I can't imagine that that would be better. I don't know. I'm just listening to my body, my body is not telling me that's the best. That seems like most people are similar. Though I 100% believe the people that prefer a morning window. There are people who do, and they feel great.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. No, I'm jealous of them.

Gin Stephens: I'm not because I'm not jealous of anyone who's different than me. I just want to do what feels good to me.

Melanie Avalon: There are things about me that I would rather be chronotype wise. I would rather be the chronotype that is an early morning person and who eats in the morning. But definitely the early morning, maybe not the eating in the morning, but definitely an early morning person, I would love to be that because of society.

Gin Stephens: As an early morning person, I will tell you, sometimes I wish I could sleep in, and I can. There's always going to be a time, you're not going to be there for part of it. You're either going to be going to bed early or getting up or one or the other.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Be happy with what you are. That's my message.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I am. I live in perpetual obsession with my state of existence, but I still have dream versions of myself that would be different, but I'm super happy with who I am.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's good. That's what matters.

Melanie Avalon: I feel like I say every single day to somebody just how grateful I am for my life. I think you can think, oh, I would be even more happier with that or that would suit me-- I've been thinking a lot about this, and this is a tangent now, I'll make it brief. People often say that, like the “I’ll be happy when” syndrome, they want things that will make them happy. Then the idea is once you get it, it doesn't make you as happy as you think, or the happiness doesn't last. I don't agree with that. There are a lot of things I thought would make me happy and then they happen, and they made me really happy and they still make me happy 10 years later.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's because you're coming from a place of happiness. I think that's the difference. If you're happy, then this thing is not making you be happy in the absence of happiness.

Melanie Avalon: That's what I'm saying about the early person thing. I'm so happy with who I am, I think I would be even more happier that way, and it's not because I'm not happy without it. I just think I would prefer to exist in society in that regard a little bit more. I feel like if I switch to it, I'd be like, this is so great, and I would keep thinking it was great. Esoteric thoughts.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody. Today, I want to tell you about Prep Dish’s new Superfast Menus. These are in addition to their three existing meal plans, keto, paleo, and gluten free. Instead of scrambling and spending every single night prepping meals, do all of your prep at once in under one hour. You'll get delicious healthy meals on the table even when you have limited time. If you've been a longtime listener, you know we're huge fans of Prep Dish. No more scrambling at each meal. Instead, go into mealtime with a plan. Like Melanie would say, “You've got this.”

Prep Dish subscribers, now get four menus every week. Gluten free, paleo, low carb keto, and the new Superfast menus. Now, you can prep a whole week's meals in just an hour. You don't have to choose between meal prep and spending precious time with your family. With Prep Dish’s new Superfast Menus, you get fast food, but it's homemade and healthy. If you've thought about trying Prep Dish but worried you wouldn't have time to do the prep, now is a great time to check out the free trial. The founder, Allison, is offering listeners a free two-week trial, and you can get that by going to prepdish.com/ifpodcast for this amazing deal. Again, that's prepdish.com/ifpodcast, and your first two weeks are absolutely free. So, try it out, see what you think about the new Superfast Menus, and then send us an email. Let us know how you like it. And now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we get into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's.

Melanie Avalon: To start things off, we have some feedback. This comes from Sarah. The subject is "From Vegetarian-ish to Carnivore-ish. Sarah says, “Dear Gin and Melanie, I wrote to you in the fall of 2020, with my saga about losing 10 pounds at the beginning of the quarantine, and then gaining 20 pounds in about four months and being so confused and distraught. I'm writing again with an update. As a reminder, I've been fasting since 2017 as a vegetarian/pescatarian. I went from a high weight of 179 pounds to a plateau of about 143 to 152 pounds for about 2.5 years. I'm 5’2”, so I never even got to the normal BMI range, which is why I call it a plateau. My low in 2020 was 139 and my high was 159. And that meant going from fitting perfectly into my smallest clothes to only fitting into leggings. I'd gotten to the point from eating out and eating processed food when things started to open up again, but the amount of weight that I gained in such a short amount of time made me think something was up since I was still fasting. I calculated the amount of protein I was eating on a regular basis and realized it was only about 20 to 50 grams a day. So, I reintroduced meat into my diet around Thanksgiving.

For about six months, I didn't lose any weight and didn't see much progress in my clothes either. I was also way hungrier than I had been as a vegetarian, which surprised me since I was now eating much more protein, but I just let myself eat and the hunger went away over time. Now, it's the end of June and I've been focusing more on low carb in addition to the protein, and I'm fitting pretty well into my smallest clothes again. But instead of being around 140 pounds, I'm still 155 pounds, only 3 to 4 pounds down from that highest weight and yet my body has totally changed.

My takeaway is that I was likely nutrient deficient and losing some lean body mass when I was fasting as a vegetarian due to a lack of protein, and now I filled up that lean body mass and have about 8 to 10 pounds more of it than I did before. I'm truly shocked because I felt great as a vegetarian. I would often get frustrated when Melanie would push her high meat, high protein agenda, LOL, but now I'm a total convert.

Thanks for listening to my long story. I wanted to write in in case any other vegetarians are thinking of reintroducing meat or to encourage them to focus on plant protein and make sure they're getting enough. I found that hard to do with fasting, but maybe others can find a way if it's important to them. Much love to you both, Sarah.”

Gin Stephens: That's very interesting. I'm glad that you are feeling better, Sarah, and satisfied and finding what foods work really well for you.

Melanie Avalon: I really loved this question from Sarah. I actually had to email Sarah back about it because I got a little-- not upset, but when she said that I would push a high meat, high protein agenda. I just wanted to speak to that and say that I really hope I don't ever come off as having an agenda, because I really don't. My agenda is that I want people to find what works for them, and that we're all unique. If I were to have an agenda, it's that. Sarah was great. She said that she was joking, she didn't really mean it that way. But listeners, please let me know if I ever say anything that sounds like it's agenda driven, because that is just the antithesis of what I ever would desire. But I thought this was a great email, because I think a lot of people experience this. I think they experience it actually on all different types of diets.

People might be vegetarian for a long time or vegan, and then their body is craving something, especially this protein situation, which I think is huge, huge, huge. So, then adding in meat helps. On the flip side, people may be doing carnivore for a long time, and then feel the need to bring back carbs, or low carb and feeling the need to bring back carbs. So, I really think listening to your body is key. I also think it's amazing that she only lost a few pounds, but her entire body composition has changed completely. That does signify to me that's probably a lot of muscle change, which is definitely very, very healthy for our body and the type of composition that we want to go for, for so many reasons.

One of the reasons that I think people don't quite appreciate the extent to which I think it plays a role, and that's muscle being a glucose sink for our dietary carbs. The more muscle we have, the more insulin sensitive we will likely be because we have a larger storage capacity to store carbs. I thought about that vaguely for a while, but I think it's actually huge. I remember I've talked about this before, but who was it? I listened to some episode. I think it was-- Oh, I know who it was. It was on Peter Attia, and it was that doctor, I think Shulman was his name. It was literally the most mind-blowing insulin episode I've ever listened to. I would love to interview him. But he was the one that was saying that most people say insulin resistance starts at the liver or the pancreas, but he was saying it actually starts at the muscle, which I find very, very interesting. But, yeah, lots of thoughts.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that sounds great. Really, you just have to figure out what feels right for your body. Also, don't underestimate the power of doing a lot of eating out and eating processed food. That's going to lead to fat gain, in addition. That's the perfect storm, all those processed foods, all those restaurant foods. You can't do a lot of eating out unless you're somewhere very fancy and special, that you'd like to go to Melanie. A normal place, where everybody's going, 95% of all restaurants, you're going to get stuff with the inflammatory oils, everything's going to be full of ultra-processed ingredients. It's hard to find and you're going to pay a lot of money for a restaurant that is more whole food based.

Melanie Avalon: I think you can make a lot of mid-tier restaurants work though.

Gin Stephens: I make them work. I'm not going to say don't eat out, but even so, it's tricky. You can craft a plate of food, but it's not what you want to eat while you're there. That's what's so frustrating. Does that make sense? It's like, "Well, I'll just have spinach plain." I don't want to do that if I'm at a restaurant. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I guess it depends what type of person you are, and the only reason I'm drawing attention to this is because I can pretty much make most restaurants work and I'm super happy with what I eat.

Gin Stephens: I would rather not go to a restaurant if I have to really restrict my choices, because what they have on the menu doesn't-- I don't know if I'm explaining it well. If we're at a pizza restaurant, I'm going to eat pizza. If I don't want to go to a pizza restaurant and try to find something on the menu or an Italian restaurant and try to find something on the menu, something else. I'd rather just eat at home. I guess that's my point.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, I understand completely what you're saying. That's why I think it's the type of person and the type of food that you're eating normally. This is what I posted about on my Instagram today, because people always want to see pictures of my food and you don't want to see pictures of my food because it's very plain and there's a lot of it, and I eat very simply. I can really go to most restaurants and because I eat so simply, I curtail the menu to be simple. I don't want to eat what they have normally.

Gin Stephens: I get it. Last night, I had chicken pot pie from Green Chef. [laughs] You would not have had that. Then, I had brioche crotons that I made from scratch. They sent the brioche bread. I mean, it was Green Chef, it had plenty of veggies and it was delicious. Man, it was good. They're not sponsoring this episode, but.

Melanie Avalon: I'm very simple. If you're down for simple, you can make most restaurants work, I think.

Gin Stephens: If you like chicken pot pie, you'd rather have it at home from Green Chef than at a restaurant.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, exactly.

Gin Stephens: That's what I was trying to say. Now you get it. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. Shall we go on to our next feedback question?

Gin Stephens: Yes, this is from Laura. The subject is, “IF in the news.” She says, “Hi, ladies, I've been with you since the beginning, and it wouldn't be a Monday morning without listening to your latest episode. Thank you. I know you tape delay, so maybe you'll talk about this soon, but if not, please go look at Phil Mickelson and how he attributes his recent PGA win to not eating for 36 hours each week so I can let my body reset. Phil just became the oldest player to win a major, and I'm sure IF contributed to that. He has also lost weight. Please keep doing what you're doing. Thank you for all of the great information and fellowship.” Have I ever told my Phil Mickelson story?

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: I can't remember what year it was. It was prior to 2014 because I was still heavy. I probably weighed about 175 to 179. So, I was at a middle high, not the highest. But some point around maybe 2012 or 2011, I can't remember, I was selected by the Phil Mickelson Exxon Mobil Teacher Institute, to go to New York City. They picked two teachers from every state, and I was one of the two selected to come from Georgia. You have to be nominated by a student and they had talk about why they want you to win.

Melanie Avalon: Did you know what student it was who nominated you?

Gin Stephens: I do know what student it was. Yep. It was a fifth-grade boy. It was called Send My Teacher was the name of the program. Okay, it was Will Stephens, but I had no idea he was doing it. Apparently, he went to his daddy and said, “Let's nominate mama,” or something. I didn't know it was happening. So, it sounds bad when I say it was my own son. But I was his teacher, I taught him in the gifted program. Anyway, for whatever reason, I didn't know it was happening until I got the email. I'm like, “What is this?” And then my husband's like, “Oh, yeah, that was Will.” Anyhow. [laughs] I don't know if I could tell that part or not.

Anyway, I got to go. Phil came and spoke to us. It was really cool. There were, I don't know, just over 100 of us, I guess, since it was two from every state, I think couple from DC, places like that. Anyway, so I have a Phil Mickelson connection. Oh, and that was also the year he won the Masters. That was what was so cool. Right after that I was selected to go, there was a press release that went out, "These are the teachers that were selected to go," and because I live in Augusta, which is where the Masters is played, and because I'm a local teacher, the news called me, and they're like, “We want to interview you for the news.” It was like, “Okay,” [laughs] so I came back from spring break because we all go out of town for spring break because that's when the Masters is and everyone leaves Augusta for the Masters, a lot of people do. We rent our houses out, we go out of town, so I'd been on a cruise. Then I come back home and Phil had won the Masters, and then suddenly I'm like news because of the Phil Mickelson connection. Anyway. That's my brush with Phil. I would love it if he read my book though. Phil, read my book.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if he was doing his 36-hour fasts at that time.

Gin Stephens: I don't know. Anyway.

Melanie Avalon: Small world.

Gin Stephens: It is. Oh, and one thing about Phil that year that he won, someone who worked at Krispy Kreme here in Augusta snapped a photo of Phil Mickelson driving through the Krispy Kreme drive-thru wearing his green jacket with his family in the car. It was after he won. He was wearing the green jacket through the Krispy Kreme drive-thru. It was so cute.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, the green jacket?

Gin Stephens: Oh, Melanie, bless your heart. When you win the Masters, you get a green jacket. [laughs] Sorry. I wouldn't know that if I didn't live in Augusta. I would not know that. So, you're forgiven for not knowing that, but the green jacket is the biggest thing.

Melanie Avalon: I had a Masters cap.

Gin Stephens: Okay, well, Phil was wearing his green jacket. It was clearly a snapshot from someone from inside the drive thru. So, it's not just an urban legend, but people shared it all over Facebook and it was Phil Mickelson, but he was wearing his green jacket, which was the cutest part of the story and his kids, family was in the car. I love Phil Mickelson is the whole thing I was trying to say there. I just love him. He's officially my favorite golfer.

Melanie Avalon: I have a question about the Masters. I'm confused. How do you watch it if it's golf? Can't you only see like the beginning of the course?

Gin Stephens: If you're on the course?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, wouldn't the golfers be like way gone?

Gin Stephens: I've actually been to the tournament, not for a long, long time. But people camp out at a hole. They have viewing stands and people usually will find somewhere they want to be. And they see people come by. Unless you're watching on TV, you can't see all 18 holes. That's true.

Melanie Avalon: It's like a parade.

Gin Stephens: Kind of. It's kind of like a parade. That is a good way of putting it. [laughs] It's a golf parade. I've often wondered, it's been a long time since I've been to the Masters, but people at the 18th hole, how early they get there to sit and to watch, and what if they have to go to the bathroom? I don't know. These are the things I think about--

Melanie Avalon: Is the 18th hole the last one?

Gin Stephens: Yes, it is. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Are you proud I figure that out?

Gin Stephens: I'm so proud. And then after that, they get their green jacket.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness.

Gin Stephens: That was so funny.

Melanie Avalon: Do people get hit in the head with golf balls?

Gin Stephens: Not very often because the golfers are like keeping it right there on the fairway.

Melanie Avalon: But, in general, do people get hit in the head with golf balls?

Gin Stephens: Well, normally when people are playing golf, they're like standing together and shooting or you're hitting down the feet down the whatever, down the green, down the whatever. If now people are laughing at me, my terminology is not that great either. But you're not going to hit towards people. You're not going to drive towards the crowd.

Melanie Avalon: I just feel like that most dangerous sport maybe golf in Florida because golf balls and alligators.

Gin Stephens: Okay, maybe-- I don't think so. [laughs] I am thumbs down on that one. [laughs] Really, golf courses are not just like wall to wall-- normal ones are not wall-to-wall spectators. It's mostly just like open grounds. Unless you're at the Masters, in which case those people are pretty good not hitting into the crowd for the most part.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, I feel like I learned more about golf.

Gin Stephens: For the most part. Yeah. Anyway. It's really hard for those of us who live in Augusta to get tickets to go. You have to really be somebody or have had them in your family, they're willed passed down from generation to generation. I'm not fancy enough to go.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I remember when my dad went. It was like a big deal. So, that makes sense.

Gin Stephens: My dad used to always get tickets back in the day because of his job. He'd gotten through his work.

Melanie Avalon: That's how my dad got them.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. But then as soon as he retired, he's like, “All my friends forgot my name.” [laughs] That was the end of that. I haven't been since my dad retired.

Melanie Avalon: Well, good to know that Phil Mickelson is doing 36-hour fasts.

Gin Stephens: Yep, I think he and I are the same age or very close to the same age, anyway. We have a question from Shelby and the subject is “Frustrated.” Shelby says, “I have loved intermittent fasting as far as how I feel, but I've actually gained weight with IF. I have been doing IF for over two months with a one-week break for vacation, and maybe a couple of weekend days, but during the week quite strict. What could I be doing wrong? I am not eating a perfect diet, but by no means terrible either. I have Hashimoto’s, not hypothyroidism, and pernicious anemia. I have an active lifestyle that has lessened a bit since my diagnosis, but still fairly active. Thanks, girls. I have loved your podcast and have gotten multiple people to do IF with me, and we're all loving it. I just wish my weight would go the right direction. Thanks.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Shelby, thank you so much for your question. Well, for starters, I find it really interesting that she says she has Hashimoto’s, not hypothyroidism. To clarify, hypothyroidism is an underactive thyroid gland and basically, the thyroid is not producing adequate thyroid hormones. Thyroid is, I mean, I don't want to say it is our metabolism, but it's what stimulates our metabolic processes all throughout our body. Our active thyroid hormones are what basically tell cells to burn energy. So, in a way, it is our metabolism. So, if you're hypothyroid, and you're lacking thyroid hormone, or adequate thyroid hormone, and/or you might have adequate thyroid hormone, but your receptors are resistant, there can be a lot of things going on, but basically your metabolism slows down. Weight gain is very common. The most common form of hypothyroidism is Hashimoto’s, which is an autoimmune condition affecting the thyroid. It is possible, however, to have Hashimoto’s and it wouldn't manifest as hypothyroidism. It might actually manifest as hyperthyroidism, or it might manifest other ways.

In any case, I have a question for Shelby. I wonder if she's certain that she's Hashimoto’s and not hypothyroid or if she was maybe diagnosed as Hashimoto’s and is thinking that means she's not hypothyroid. I'd be really curious what her actual thyroid levels are because if she is at all hypothyroid, or if she has high reverse T3, for example, because you can also have normal thyroid levels of T3. T3 is your active thyroid hormone. But if you have high reverse T3, that actually blocks your T3, or like I mentioned, you can have resistance at the T3 receptor, at the cells, a lot of things that can go on. The reason I'm drawing attention to it is because it can be a huge factor in weight gain. She may think that it's not a factor, but it might be.

As far as gaining weight, not losing weight. I think this is an example of where fasting is not the be all, end all to everything. Depending on what you're eating, it's very easy to not lose weight, and even potentially possible to gain weight, depending on what you're eating.

Gin Stephens: Can I pop something in real quick?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: We also don't know a lot of things about-- people, if you could send us as much information as you could, that would be so helpful. For example, knowing how much weight Shelby needs to lose would really help us to know. Maybe she's only gained three pounds, and it's muscle but we don't know if she only wants to lose 10 pounds to be at her weight that would make her happy, versus does she need to lose 100. Those kinds of factors are really, really important.

Melanie Avalon: It's so funny that you commented on that. One of the reasons I actually wanted to include this question was because of how simple it was. It's because I think that a lot of people often just view it as IF is the only thing, and all of these other factors that we would want to know about that you just mentioned, like your weight, your muscle, your food, like what you're eating.

Gin Stephens: Are you going through menopause?

Melanie Avalon: I'm so glad you said that, because this is literally what I wanted to focus on, was that I think a lot of people don't take any of that into account, and they just think it's the IF, and that's all there is to talk about, is the IF. It's not just the IF. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: IF is one factor of our lifestyle, and if other things are not in a good place, IF is not going to magically correct all the things.

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. Saying I'm not eating a perfect diet, there's a lot there that can't really just be brushed aside for most people or for a lot of people. If the diet is the reason, I think it'll be really hard to just focus on the fasting and make changes.

Gin Stephens: Also, two months is not a long time, especially if one week was a break for vacation. Two months with one of those weeks off is not really very long. If you think about Fast. Feast. Repeat. And the 28-Day FAST Start, I tell you, “Okay, don't expect weight loss during the first 28 days.” There's your first month right there. Now, you have one more month, and one of those weeks was off. It wouldn't surprise me. Again, I would like to know what does she mean by gaining weight? If she's gained 20 pounds or 1 pound or has her weight fluctuated? The more details that you give, the better advice we can give you. Because honestly, it might just be as simple as, first your body was adjusting. it's only been another month and one of those weeks was vacation. You have Hashimoto’s and anemia, and maybe you're focusing on fluctuations instead of what your trend is doing. There are just so many things.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. I will say for listeners though, because I know listeners really want to get their question featured, include as many details as possible, without it being a novel. When we say tell us a lot, try to tell it succinctly a lot.

Gin Stephens: What your body's been doing. Again, for example, if Shelby had been rapidly gaining weight prior to starting IF and now she's slowly gaining weight, that's a positive. For example, back when I did those crazy diets like the HCG diet or took diet pills, for example. After I stopped doing those things, my body regained weight. Maybe you could be regaining weight because you had done a prior-- maybe you did Medifast, whatever, last month before you started intermittent fasting.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wait, a Medifast?

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't know. One of those programs. I don't know. I think there's a program called Medifast where you're doing shakes.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah. Like M-E-D-I.

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. Sorry. I don't know if they even call it that anymore. The point was, if you'd been doing some kind of a highly restrictive plan, but we just don't know, because I would totally expect someone who had been doing a highly restrictive plan and stopped doing it to gain weight, even if switching over to intermittent fasting. There's just so many factors. We just need to know.

Melanie Avalon: I just felt this question encapsulated what I think. I feel we see it so much, because fasting is becoming so popular, which is great, and so many people are doing it, which is great, and we're learning more about all the health benefits, which is great and people are being successful, which is great. But it doesn't mean it's the only thing. I'm not saying she's doing this. It's something that I just feel happens with a lot of people. It's like if your lifestyle and your fasting isn't working, the fasting is the only thing to tweak. I don't think that's the case.

Gin Stephens: Exactly.

Melanie Avalon: Hi, friends. Okay, we have thrilling news about Joovv. They have new devices, and we have a discount. Yes, a discount, no longer a free gift, a discount. As you guys know, there are a few non-negotiables in my personal daily routine. I focus on what and when I eat every single day. And I also focus on my daily dose of healthy light through Joovv’s red light therapy devices. Guys, I use my Joovv all the time. Red light therapy is one of the most effective health modalities you can use in your home. I've personally seen so many health benefits. I find it incredible for regulating my circadian rhythm, helping my mood, boosting my thyroid, smoothing my skin, and I've also used it on multiple occasions for targeted pain relief. Anyone who's familiar with red light therapy pretty much knows that Joovv is the leading brand. They pioneered this technology, and they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use. Since then, they've remained the most innovative, forward-thinking light therapy brands out there.

And we're so excited because Joovv just launched their next generation of devices, and they've made huge upgrades to what was already a really incredible system. Their new devices are sleeker, they're up to 25% lighter, and they all have the same power that we've come to expect from them. They've also intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. They've also upgraded the setup for the new devices with quick, easy mounting options, so your new Joovv can fit just about any space.

And the new devices include some pretty cool new features, things like their Recovery Plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves an extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near-infrared light. And this is my personal favorite update. For those of us who like to use do devices to wind down at night, they now have an ambient mode that creates a calming lower intensity of light at night. Guys, I am so excited about this. Using this light at night is way healthier than bright blue light from all of our screens, and much more in line with your circadian rhythm. I was using my current Joovv devices at night anyway to light my whole apartment, so this new ambient mode is really going to be a game-changer for me. Of course, you still get the world-class customer service from your helpful, friendly Joovv team.

So, if you're looking for a new Joovv device for your home, we have some very exciting news. You can go to joovv.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST. You'll get an exclusive discount on Joovv’s newest devices. Yes, discount, I said it. That's J-O-O-V-V dotcom, forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Exclusions apply. And this is for a limited time only. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

We have a question from Teresa. The subject is “IF Headaches.” Teresa says, “Hi. I'm new to IF. I've read Gin's book, Fast. Feast. Repeat. I just recently started following her blog and getting into podcasting. I was wondering about this question. Is it okay to take Tylenol while fasting? I'm still trying to find the answer. I'm experiencing headaches, and I'm not sure what to do to help with that. Mostly everything I've read up to this point says give it time, it should pass.”

Gin Stephens: Yes, Teresa. Headaches are common during the adjustment phase. Your body is trying to figure out how to fuel itself and it's used to running on that quick blood glucose that you've been supplying to it, if you're eating the way most of us used to before IF. We got constant fuel coming in, our body's used to that, now your body's having to learn to how to do something new. That's why you may have headaches during the adjustment phase. Not everybody does but if you do, know that it's temporary. Now, let's just say can you take pain relievers while fasting in general? The answer to that is yes. Make sure to take something that's safe on an empty stomach. That is really, really important.

In general, Tylenol themselves, the makers of Tylenol, recommend that it's okay to take it on an empty stomach. That's just coming from them. But there are definitely a lot of other pain relievers out there that are not safe to take on an empty stomach. They can cause problems. So, make sure that you're choosing something that's safe on an empty stomach. Also, if you feel like it makes you feel sick, or if it makes your stomach hurt or anything like that, just go ahead and eat. It's okay to eat as your body is adjusting if you need to. Don't push through pain, if your body's not ready yet. You can have a slightly longer fast tomorrow. Let's say you're trying to get to 18, but today, you only made it to 15. Maybe tomorrow, you'll make it to 15 and a half. That's what I meant by slightly longer fasts. I don't want people to think that I'm saying you should make it up by doing like a 45-hour fast or something. No. Just gently, slightly longer, and let your body ease in.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that was great. I'm glad you drew attention to the empty stomach part. That is one of the issues with a lot of pain relievers. I think especially, ibuprofen and things like that, actually the anti-inflammatory enzyme that they inhibit, it's the COX-2 enzyme, it actually plays a role in our gut and activating it, it can exacerbate leaky gut syndrome and intestinal issues. There's a lot of problems with a lot of conventional pain pills. Definitely, being wary of that is great, and hopefully finding the root source of the headaches. Shall we do one more question?

Gin Stephens: All right. We have a question from Roxy. It is, “Hi, first of all, I love, love, love your podcast. I really appreciate both of you sharing your own personal journey, and all of the information you provide in layman's terms. My question is about supplements. After listening to you both and doing extensive research about the best supplements for me, I was just about to go forward with some purchases that are recommended on your website in the Stuff We Like section, and I am so confused. I have heard Gin say more times than I can count that she would never purchase supplements from Amazon, yet all of the links take you to a product on Amazon. Also, some of the products have a lead warning label on it. So, I'm hesitant to move forward. Would you mind clarifying a bit?

Also, I seem to have bags under my eyes, and I get enough sleep, eight to nine hours and I'm not tired. I use good quality eye products, and nothing helps. A doctor told me it's lack of iron which I've had issues in the past with anemia. I've taken iron pills in the past, which left me constipated. Can you recommend a good iron supplement? Thank you so much, Roxanne.” She said, “By the way, I'm a 54-year-old woman who has always been in good shape. I'm one of those annoying people who love to exercise. I also have eaten clean and whole foods, although very restrictive. I literally have only eaten lean protein and vegetables in six small meals for the last 10 years of my life. That worked well for me for a long time as far as looking amazing in my bikini, especially for my age. Until it didn't. Thanks menopause.” Yeah, I hear you there, Roxy. Menopause is such a game changer. Ah.

She said, “Since doing IF 10 weeks in, I feel free. I no longer have to carry food around. I eat healthy fats. I don't feel like the weirdo at a party because I require different food choices. I actually enjoy my food rather than just getting it in. My skin looks amazing. My mood is positive. I have lots of energy and get this, a mysterious rash I have had on my thighs for over 20 years that no doctor could identify is miraculously clearing up. It's a miracle. Now, I'm hoping my libido will come back and so does my husband.” Oh, Roxanne, I get it. Can I speak to one of those questions real quick and then let you get the rest of it before I say anything else?

All right. Good iron supplement. I'm with you on that, Roxy, because I have always had anemia ever since I was ever tested from teenagers on. That's just something that my body struggles with. I have recently started cooking in cast-iron pans, and I am nailing it, Melanie. I'm doing great, my cast-iron pans finally. And they do add iron to your meals. Also, the food tastes better. I swear to God, the food tastes better.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, it tastes way better, in my opinion.

Gin Stephens: It makes a difference. You know how there's the theory that we crave salt if we need salt and that we eat salted food till it tastes good based on how much we need drives us to add it till it tastes good? I wonder if the same can be said for the iron pan. Maybe I think the food tastes so good because it's got more iron in it, and my body is craving the iron. Here's a theory.

Melanie Avalon: I just had a epiphany about cast iron just now that I've never had and I think about iron a lot because I also have struggled with anemia like severe.

Gin Stephens: A lot of women do. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Mine was I literally could have died. I googled the iron levels I was at. My epiphany, I'm so excited about this epiphany. I as well have found great benefits from using cast iron. That's always been confusing to me because the form of iron in cast iron is non-heme, which is the type of iron found in plants, compared to heme, which is type of iron found in animal products, which is much more easily assimilated by the body. I've always been like, "Why is cast iron so effective when it's non-heme and not heme?" I bet it's because non-heme that you get from plants, like spinach and stuff, often comes along with iron inhibitors in the plants. So, not only is it a less easily assimilated form, but there's often like phytates and different things in plants that actually inhibit iron absorption. Cast iron wouldn't have that. It literally would just have--

Gin Stephens: The iron.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. So, that never occurred to me. The thing that has been a game-changer for me, friends, I struggle with anemia. I was hospitalized and had to get blood transfusions and then got my iron up, and then it dropped again, and I had to get infusions. I'm keeping it steady now. There's two things I've been doing. One, I've been supplementing with chlorophyll. The chlorophyll molecule is actually essentially identical to our blood, except it has magnesium instead of iron, because of the nature of its makeup, it can-- I don't know the specifics of it, but it can help your own blood build up its iron store. Even though it doesn't have iron in it, it can have that effect on your blood. I've been doing that.

And then, lot of people will take desiccated liver supplements. I've actually been taking desiccated spleen, which has way more iron than the liver. Especially with constipation being an issue, I don't find any constipation from the spleen or the chlorophyll. It's really just those straight-up iron pills that are a problem. If you do want to take just an iron pill, make sure you get the chelated form. I think BlueBonnet makes chelated form. A lot of people experience a lot of benefits with that and say that it's not constipating. So, a lot of options there.

Then, on top of that, I've heard this, I've read this, I don't know if this is the case, but to err on the side of more information rather than less. Some people say that you shouldn't do super high dose iron every day because the body might adjust accordingly and stop absorbing more. So, if you're trying to build up your levels, maybe doing it like every other day. But what I've been doing, I've been taking the chlorophyll every day, I don't think there's a concern with too much of that. I've been doing one or two spleen pills every day, actually. As far as the products on Amazon, Gin, because I still have my Facebook groups, so many people have asked about this. So many people.

Gin Stephens: Really.

Melanie Avalon: I think our messaging surrounding Amazon and supplements is that it can be really, really hard to know if your supplements are coming from verified sources. The supplement world in general is very murky. There's not regulation, there's a lot of potential problems. That's why you've got to be really, really careful about vetting the brands, and then making sure you're ordering and you're getting the actual product. Everything that we list on the Stuff We Like, those are brands that I have personally taken and have researched ad nauseam and feel good about. I don't think we're saying don't order on Amazon. We're just saying you really got to have a discerning eye.

Gin Stephens: Exactly. Be very, very careful when you're ordering supplements on Amazon. I know I've said this before, only order them from a seller that you trust on Amazon. I would not order a supplement on Amazon from Bob's Best Supplements. I don't know who Bob is, Bob's Supplement. I don’t know. I'm not going to order. Even if it's a brand-- I used to order a certain brand of magnesium, and I would always get it from Amazon. But it would be different third-party sellers selling it. I would order it if it was shipped from and sold by Amazon, but I wouldn't order it if it was sold by Bob's Supplement Station.

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. A lot of supplements, I think, we do recommend, there are some brands I do trust, like I really trust Pure Encapsulations and I trust Thorne. Ordering Pure Encapsulations from Pure Encapsulations page on Amazon or Thorne from Thorne’s page.

Gin Stephens: Don't buy Thorne from Bob's Supplements R Us, buy it from Thorne. I'm sorry Bob, if there is a Bob, I just made that up. [laughs] You might be a good supplement seller, if there is one. I feel very sorry for honest third-party sellers on Amazon. I really, really do. But it's not their fault that there are shady people out there selling things on Amazon that have tainted it for everybody. There are amazing-- lots of people who are honest and selling great things as third-party sellers on Amazon. I really, really hate that they have to be tainted by the others. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Melanie Avalon: Yep. Then, I will speak to the lead thing. Yes, there are some products. I know on our website and products I've used and they are products that have lead warnings on them. I think it's Prop-- what is it, Prop 65. It's the California thing. This is something that I'm not sure how I feel about it. I do think reducing lead is so, so important. I'm not sure which one she's talking about. It might have been, I know Citrus Pectin has that warning. I know some of the toothpastes. So, this is something where I think it's something to be definitely aware of. If it concerns you, just don't take it. Some of the stuff, it's like the cost benefit, or what are you using it for, but I think it's great, Roxy, that you're aware of that. If you're not comfortable if it has that labeled, then just don't order it.

Gin Stephens: Exactly. Yeah. I'm very supplement choosy. That's just what it's come down to. I'm a skeptic, and I'm choosy. It has to be a company that I really, really trust. But there are some I trust.

Melanie Avalon: Which speaking of, I'm still moving forward with my serrapeptase supplement.

Gin Stephens: How long do they tell you it'll take?

Melanie Avalon: We're hashing out the contract right now, that's what we've been doing the past few days. Once we sign the contracts, I think it'll probably be between 8 to 12 weeks. So, two or three months after we sign the contracts. It'll probably be this winter sometime. It will be really exciting. So, that will be, friends, you can trust me. You can trust my serrapeptase. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Exactly.

Melanie Avalon: I'm very excited.

Gin Stephens: Well, I'm excited for you.

Melanie Avalon: Yep. I just want to say briefly, I also really love everything that Roxy shared about her success with IF and her rash disappearing and combating the weight gain of menopause and her skin and her mood, and that's just really wonderful.

Gin Stephens: Yes, that is really amazing.

Melanie Avalon: Yep. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. a few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the podcast, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com/ and you can submit questions there. We mentioned it already, but you can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode224. Those show notes will have a complete transcript, so definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram, we are @ifpodcast. I'm @melanieavalon, Gin’s @ginstephens. I think that is everything. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: I did just start a second Instagram account.

Melanie Avalon: A second?

Gin Stephens: Well, I feel like I want to have a place to talk about Clean(ish) things. It's like I have Gin Stephens or it's like my intermittent fasting. I have one called @cleanishgin. So, people follow me there. Right now, it's pretty boring. But I'm going to post things that relate specifically to Clean(ish).

Melanie Avalon: You don't just want to do it on your own?

Gin Stephens: I don't. Nope. Just because it's kind of murky. Instagram started off just my personal. I don't want my Instagram to be all businessy. I don't want to sell people things on Instagram. I just don't want to. I want my son and my friends-- Does that make sense?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Like Facebook got all lumped together for me. I did everything under my regular Gin Stephens. So, I want to have a separate Instagram. If people are interested in following me for Clean(ish) kind of things, look for @cleanishgin, and you can find it there. I think I have like four people-- actually I haven't talked about or told anybody about it. But four people found me already. I don't know how.

Melanie Avalon: I just followed you.

Gin Stephens: Four, now I have five.

Melanie Avalon: I'm your seventh follower.

Gin Stephens: Number seven. Woo. See, I'd never talked about it. I just set it up because my publishers always wanting me to do more on Instagram. I know I should do more on Instagram, but I don't want to merge the two together, if that makes sense. So, if you want to see my Clean(ish) recommendations, then @cleanishgin is where to go.

Melanie Avalon: People have asked me to start a separate Instagram and I'm like, “That's overwhelming.” For me, it's easier to just have it all.

Gin Stephens: It's really easy to switch back and forth from one to the other, which I didn't know.

Melanie Avalon: Well, we have our @ifpodcast, so I switch back and forth.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, okay. But it is really easy to switch back and forth. It just feels right to me, to keep it all there, because I never have been very active on Instagram, but follow me on both if you want.

Melanie Avalon: Well, this has been wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right, talk to you then. Bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jul 11

Episode 221: Vacation Eating, Fasting Insulin, Fluctuating Biomarkers, Pollen While Fasting, IF And Menstrual Cycles, Hormonal Changes, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 221 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

LMNT: For Fasting Or Low-Carb Diets Electrolytes Are Key For Relieving Hunger, Cramps, Headaches, Tiredness, And Dizziness. With No Sugar, Artificial Ingredients, Coloring, And Only 2 Grams Of Carbs Per Packet, Try LMNT For Complete And Total Hydration. For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!!

BiOptimizers: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Get Their Full Spectrum Magnesium Supplement To Fix Your Magnesium Status, Containing All 7 Versions Of Magnesium! Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

GREEN CHEF: Get easy, affordable meals made with organic ingredients for a variety of lifestyles - including Paleo, Keto, Vegan, and Vegetarian - shipped straight to your home! Go Tgreenchef.com/ifpodcast100 And Use Code IFPODCAST100 To Get $100 Off Including Free Shipping!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

Visit IFpodcast.com/episode221 For FULL Shownotes, And IFPodcast.com/StuffWeLike For All The Stuff We Like!

1:10 - LMNT: For A Limited Time Go Tdrinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!! 

3:50 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quizmelanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

18:55 - BIOPTIMIZERS: Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

21:15 - Listener Q&A: jen - Fasting insulin fluctuations?

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #76 - Harpreet Rai (Oura Ring)

The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #74 - Benjamin Bikman, Ph.D.

Why We Get Sick: The Hidden Epidemic At The Root Of Most Chronic Disease―And How To Fight It (Benjamin Bikman, Ph.D.)

walk in fasting insulin blood test

Go To Melanieavalon.Com/NutrisenseCGM And Use Coupon Code MelanieAvalon For 15% Off Select Packages

Skip The (115,000 Person!) Waitlist By Going To Melanieavalon.Com/LevelsCGM With The Coupon Code MelanieAvalon!

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #101 - Gary Taubes

36:50 - Listener Q&A: Todd - Pollen while water fasting?

7 oz. Bee Pollen 100% RAW, NATURAL, & LOCAL - Bee Pollen

42:00 - Listener Q&A: Anisha - IF before your period

51:50 - GREEN CHEF: Go To greenchef.com/ifpodcast100 And Use Code IFPODCAST100 To Get $100 Off Including Free Shipping!

53:50 - Listener Q&A: Carolynn - Jiggly Menopausal Thighs

The Science Of Fat Cells: Losing Weight, Gaining Weight, Killing Fat Cells, Liposuction, Body Contouring, CoolSculpting®, ECM Remodeling, And More!

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 221 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny: Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I'm about to tell you how you can get free electrolyte supplements, some of which are clean fast approved, all developed by none other than Robb Wolf. Have you been struggling to feel good with low carb, paleo, keto, or fasting? Have you heard of something called the keto flu? Here's the thing. The keto flu is not actually a condition. Nope. Keto flu just refers to a bundle of symptoms, headaches, fatigue, muscle cramps, and insomnia that people experience in the early stages of keto dieting. Here's what's going on. When you eat a low carb diet, your insulin levels drop. Low insulin in turn lowers the production of the hormone, aldosterone. Now, aldosterone is made in the kidneys and it helps you retain sodium. So, low aldosterone on a keto diet makes you lose sodium at a rapid rate. And even if you are consciously consuming electrolytes, you might not be getting enough.

In particular, you need electrolytes, especially sodium and potassium, in order for nerve impulses to properly fire. Robb Wolf, who as you guys know is my hero in the holistic health world, worked with the guys at Ketogains to get the exact formulation for electrolyte supplements to formulate LMNT Recharge. You can maintain ketosis and feel your best. LMNT Recharge has no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients, no junk. They're used by three Navy SEALs teams, they are the official hydration partner to Team USA Weightlifting, they're used by multiple NFL teams, and so much more.

Guess what? We worked out an exclusive deal for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast listeners only. Guys, this is huge. They weren't going to do a deal. I begged them. Here we are. You can get a free LMNT sampler pack. We're not talking a discount, we're talking free. Completely free. You only pay $5 for shipping. If you don't love it, they will even refund you the $5 for shipping. I'm not kidding. The sample pack includes eight packets of LMNT, two citrus, two raspberry, two orange, and two raw unflavored. The raw unflavored ones are the ones that are safe for your clean fast, and the other ones you can have in your eating window. Word on the street is the citrus flavor makes an amazing margarita by the way. I am loving LMNT and I think you guys will, too. Again, this is completely free. You have nothing to lose. Just go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T dotcom forwardslash ifpodcast. I'll put all this information in the show notes.

And one more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens, which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare, Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. So, when you're putting on your conventional skincare and makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. Did you know that conventional lipstick, for example, often test high for lead and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this.

There's a company called Beautycounter, and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can actually feel good about what you put on. On top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combined the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging, and brightening peels, and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.combeautycounter.

If you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. Totally, completely worth it. Also definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter. People share their experience, and product reviews, and so much more. Again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalonocom/beautycounter. All right, now, enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is episode number 221 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am great, and I have had a very exciting week.

Melanie Avalon: Really? How so?

Gin Stephens: Super exciting. Some amazing intermittent faster named Ashley posted a TikTok video about her 70-pound weight loss, I guess in the past week. I guess it was maybe Sunday, she posted it. It apparently went a little viral. People started buying Fast. Feast. Repeat. like crazy. It was number four of all books on Amazon on Monday. Four of all books on Amazon. That have never been that high.

Melanie Avalon: What's number one?

Gin Stephens: I think it's like fiction. I can't remember. This is of all books, every book in the world.

Melanie Avalon: Like in the world.

Gin Stephens: Yes. All the books that are selling-- Anyway, that was so exciting, and it stuck around in the top 10 for a little while, and then it was in the top 20, and today it was higher, but it's still been in the top 100 all week. That's amazing.

Melanie Avalon: Do you think it'll be back on the New York Times bestseller list for that week?

Gin Stephens: Oh, you know what? I've done some snooping on the New York Times bestseller list just like--

Melanie Avalon: It's complicated, right?

Gin Stephens: It is very complicated. But the category that my book is in is how-to and self-help whatever category. I looked at what was on it the last time it came out, it was June 20th-- Even though we're recording this prior to June 20th, it was the June 20th edition. On the June 20th edition, I looked at what was number one, number two, number three, and Fast. Feast. Repeat. was indeed ranking higher than those books for a few days. Will it translate into enough to make the list again? I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: That'd be so cool.

Gin Stephens: It would be so cool, because we are actually two days away. Today, we're recording on June 18th even though this episode comes out in July, but we're two days away from the one-year anniversary of Fast. Feast. Repeat. coming out. So, wouldn't it be fun?

Melanie Avalon: Wow, a year?

Gin Stephens: It's been a year.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's crazy. I feel like it was just yesterday.

Gin Stephens: I know. It's been crazy. To think about book coming back onto the list a year out, it's not typical, unless it's been on there the whole time. Some books, for example, Atomic Habits. It's always there.

Melanie Avalon: Right. It is always there.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, it was there when I was there, and then, I went away, and it's still there.

Melanie Avalon: For listeners, our agent sends a New York Times bestseller email.

Gin Stephens: Oh, I don't get that one. I'm not on that list.

Melanie Avalon: You don't get it?

Gin Stephens: I've never gotten it.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, you’re not on that?

Gin Stephens: No.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, okay. Well, you could probably get added to it. It's just a list of The New York Times bestsellers every week. Atomic Habits, it's always Atomic Habits.

Gin Stephens: It's always there. That is true.

Melanie Avalon: How are there still people left in the world to buy this book? Because apparently, everybody has bought it. That’s a good book. I would love to have him on the show, on my other show. Congratulations, though. That's very cool.

Gin Stephens: Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Anyway, we shall see. Anyway, it's very exciting, and my fingers are crossed. We'll see. I don't know if I'll be back on the list or not, but I would love it, but time will tell.

Melanie Avalon: I will keep my fingers crossed. I will look for that email.

Gin Stephens: Awesome. [laughs] What's up with you?

Melanie Avalon: I was just reflecting. I have a very exciting week next week or this upcoming week.

Gin Stephens: What's going on?

Melanie Avalon: Monday, you know Feals? I love Feals.

Gin Stephens: I do know Feals. Yes. [laughs] What? No, never heard of them. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my gosh, I love Feals. It's almost ridiculous how much Feals helps me personally, taking it every single night. For listeners, it's the CBD oil brand that we love. They do features on people who use Feals. They're going to do one on me, which is really exciting. They're paying for a photographer to come into my apartment on Monday and shoot me in my apartment.

Gin Stephens: Oh, my God, that's fun. That's really fun, because one company, I won't say which one it was, it’s one of our sponsors, but they also sponsored Intermittent Fasting Stories, are like, “Could you send us a picture using the product?” I had to just like, “Take my own picture.” I was like, “This looks ridiculous. Good luck with this.”

Melanie Avalon: Gin does not like taking pictures with the products.

Gin Stephens: I don't like taking selfies. I'm not good at it. Because I'm always hyperfocused on what my hand, how I'm clicking the-- I just am not a good selfie taker. I'm not even sorry. [laughs] It is what it is.

Melanie Avalon: I do them reluctantly. But yeah, this is exciting that it's going to be very official. That's Monday. Tuesday, I'm going to be on Abel James’ podcast, and he has Fat-Burning Man, and that podcast is, it's pretty legit. It's been around forever. He's so nice. I'm not even nervous about it, because I've had him on my show, and he's just the kindest human being.

Gin Stephens: You can tell by looking at his eyes. Do you know what I'm saying?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: He's got really kind eyes. You can totally tell from people's eyes.

Melanie Avalon: Out of how many guests have I had, almost hundred, I think he's the kindest, and everybody who meets them, that's what they say, that he's just the nicest person. Then, on Wednesday, I'm actually doing my first IG live. I've never done an Instagram Live, and I'm doing it with InsideTracker and Cory Rodriguez.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's fun.

Melanie Avalon: He has a lot of followers on Instagram. He must have a pretty big following. It's going to be really exciting. I think you did an IG Live, right? I think I saw that.

Gin Stephens: I've done a couple of them at requests of other people. People who were like, “Would you please--" They're not my favorite. I feel weird. One I did was an interview, which I didn't mind as much. But then, the one I most recently did, it was just me by myself. They were like, “No, you're just going to log into our account. Here's our password information, and then just go and we'll feed you questions.” I’m like, “What? What?” [laughs] I've realized I love talking to people. I can have a conversation. I can answer questions. But what I don't love is talking at a camera, just staring at it off the top of my head.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's awkward if it's just you.

Gin Stephens: It feels awkward to me. I’ve managed to do it, but it felt awkward. I always feel like I sound crazy. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That's so funny.

Gin Stephens: One of the companies that I work with wanted me to make an Instagram video and send it to them that they could-- I’m like, “I just can't. I just can't do that.” [laughs] I'm going to have to do something different. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That's so funny.

Gin Stephens: That's not what I'm doing. Sorry. I'll be 52 years old very soon. I'm going to do what feels good.

Melanie Avalon: Not your thing. Not your thing.

Gin Stephens: No, I'm not going to apologize. I just couldn't do what I can do. [laughs] I could do anything, but I don't want to do things that feel outside of authentic.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, one brand wanted me to do an Instagram takeover, where I’m supposed to-- similar to what you just said. I would log into their account, and then, I would post stories all day, but they wanted it to be my life all day, and I was like, “My life's not that exciting. I don't know what I would take the stories,” like podcasting at the cryo.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that would be interesting, but it feels forced to me. I don't know. I don't want to live my life like that. Sorry. That's when people are like, “Could you follow me around and show me everything you eat all day long and take pictures?” People have asked me that a lot. People are always like, “Show me what you eat.” I'm like, “No.” “Show me everything. Everything you eat.” I'm like, “I’m not doing that.”

Melanie Avalon: No. [laughs] Then, I'm always like, “You don't want to know.” They're like, “Yes, we do.” It is not that exciting, friends. It's pounds and pounds of meat, and cucumbers, and fruit.

Gin Stephens: I'm not eating that. [laughs] Yesterday, I had a big old cheeseburger and some house-made potato chips at the beach bar. I'm at the beach.

Melanie Avalon: Sounds very beachy, cheeseburger in paradise.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, but that's it. I'm at the condo, today, and for some reason when I drive to the beach, I'm like, “Now, I must eat a cheeseburger at the beach bar.” I always do that day one when I get here. I don't know why.

Melanie Avalon: I love little traditions like that. They're so fun.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, and now I’m like, “Now, I've had it. Okey-dokes. [laughs] There was my burger.” Today, I'm going out to eat with somebody who's in the Delay, Don't Deny community that I've never met in person, and I'm really excited. I'm meeting her and her wife at a restaurant.

Melanie Avalon: Cool.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I’ve found out she was here. We have a mutual Delay, Don't Deny friend. She's like, “Heads up. I was talking to Allison,” it's her name. “She's at Myrtle Beach. She said, “Doesn't Gin come to Myrtle Beach sometime? But I didn't tell her that you were at Myrtle Beach.” “Well, let me reach out. I sent her a message.” She's in the Delay, Don't Deny Social Network. I sent her a private message there, and I'm like, “Hey, I am at the beach, what are you doing?” We made plans to meet for dinner.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, that'd be fun.

Gin Stephens: I know. I'm really excited. You know me. I love people. I love meeting people, people in the community.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I don't think I've met anybody in person from the groups, or the shows, or anything, I don't think. No. Well, I’ve met people I know from the show. I haven't met somebody in the audience.

Gin Stephens: It all started with the first Delay, Don't Deny cruise, that we did in 2018. That was the first time I met people I didn't know, but what was so cool is that you really do know them. The people you think you like from the groups that you think you know, you really do. They are just as awesome as you think they are. People are very much who they seem like, I found.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I love that. Actually, one of my best friends, I think we met in one of your groups, maybe, originally, way back in the day.

Gin Stephens: What's her first name? Did she help you moderate?

Melanie Avalon: Pam.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I knew that’s who it was. I knew it. Yep, she was in my groups, and then she came over to your group. I remember.

Melanie Avalon: We did the IF group together. We started it together.

Gin Stephens: I thought so. Yeah. I remembered that.

Melanie Avalon: I forget about that, because she doesn't really like actively do much with the groups now, and I talk to her all the time. But she lives in Canada. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: I love that. One of my very best friends is Sheri that I do the other podcast with, we met through the Delay, Don’t Deny groups. Before I even met her in person, we were planning the second Delay, Don’t Deny cruise, and I was like, “I know I've never met you, and this might be weird. But would you be my roommate on the second cruise?” [laughs] Because we were going in March, and I needed someone who was not a teacher, and who could get away. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I love that.

Gin Stephens: She works in healthcare. She's like, “Absolutely. I'll be your roommate.” Anyway, good times.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome.

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: It's just a wonderful community.

Gin Stephens: It is a wonderful community. That is what I love. I'm a teacher at heart, I will always be. That's what teachers do. We set up community in our classrooms. I really think that's the key to being a successful classroom teacher, is making your classroom feel like a community. That's just what I do. Anyway, I'm excited. I'm going to be at the beach for two weeks total, which is a long time. I don't usually come this long, but my house is still going under construction in the backyard. I just needed to get away. So, here I am. [laughs] But I have a beach strategy for how I'm going to eat, and people are taking vacations, and I'm sure they're listening and wondering how they're going to manage. I'm going to just really do probably most days, a pretty tight one meal a day. When I come to vacation, usually, if I'm here for four days or something like that, I might have two meals a day and I relax. But 14 days, no. That's a whole different story. If I ate two meals a day for 14 days, I wouldn't feel good at all.

Melanie Avalon: I don't feel good after one day of not doing one meal a day.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, so it's going to be a tighter window. We're going to eat tonight at 6:30, and I'm just going to fast until then, and I'll have a big meal, and then tomorrow, my family's all coming. My dad, my stepmother, and my sister, her husband, my brother, his wife, my other brother, all their kids. [laughs] It's going to be a big, big to-do at the beach. But I'm going to enjoy one amazing meal a day.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect.

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: I love it.

Hi, friends. I am a huge proponent of getting our nutrition from food. When all else fails, I feel food is the way to go. That said, there are some nutrients that are super hard to get in today's environment. Did you know that 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium? Our soils are so depleted of magnesium today, that it's really, really hard to get enough of this crucial mineral. It's actually the number one mineral to fight stress, fatigue, and sleep issues. I've been doing a lot of research on minerals, especially the calcium-magnesium balance, and I walk away from so many conversations I have with experts just realizing more and more how important magnesium is. I personally love magnesium for its stress-reducing effects as well as helping with my digestive issues. Yes, magnesium is the single most studied mineral in existence. It actually powers over 600 critical reactions in our bodies. But did you know that there are multiple types of magnesium? That's why I am so excited to share with you the magnesium product that I discovered.

It is called Magnesium Breakthrough by BiOptimizers, and it combines all seven essential forms of magnesium into one convenient supplement. Most magnesium supplements actually fail, because they are synthetic and are not full spectrum. But when you get all seven critical forms of magnesium, pretty much every function in your body gets upgraded, from your brain to your sleep, pain and inflammation, and less stress. With this one simple action, you can help reverse your magnesium deficiency in all of its forms. This is by far the most complete magnesium product ever created, and until or unless someone comes out with a better one, I highly recommend you give it a try. I can't tell you how many times I get feedback in my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, about people who have truly benefited so much from Magnesium Breakthrough.

We have a special offer just for our listeners, you can get 10% off Magnesium Breakthrough if you go to magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast and enter the code, IFPODCAST10. That's M-A-G-B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. Once again, that's magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. By the way, that coupon code is good for 10% off any order. So, definitely take a look around the BiOptimizers website for other supplements that might benefit your health. I'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now, back to the show.

Gin Stephens: Are you ready to get into our question?

Melanie Avalon: I think so.

Gin Stephens: All right, we have one from Jen, J-E-N, Jen, and the subject is, “Fasting insulin fluctuations?” Jen says, “Hi, ladies. I love the podcast and all that I've learned from it. I've heard you guys talk about the value of checking fasting insulin levels, and I'm looking to get that done soon. But first, I wanted to know if it fluctuates as much as fasting glucose levels since blood glucose and insulin are so closely intertwined. I'm not diabetic, but have worn CGMs, and as Melanie has pointed out, the amount of blood glucose levels can vary within a few minutes of each other even during the fasted state can be pretty remarkable. So, I'm wondering if the fasted insulin level I get could be significantly different depending when the blood sample is drawn. If only there were CIMs, Continuous Insulin Monitors.” Oh, my God. I would love that. I would go get one immediately.

Melanie Avalon: Really? Christmas. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Yes. [laughs] I don't care how much it costs. Anyway, that would depend, because I'm frugal. [laughs] Sorry, I'm frugal. All right. “Related, I know HbA1c takes about three months to trend, but do you know how long it takes for fasted insulin levels to trend upwards or downwards? I notice with my CGM that if I have a high glucose day, it could take a couple of days for my overall glucose to trend back down even with IF. If I got my fasted insulin checked a day or two after some indulgence, would that show up, or does it take a longer pattern of a week or longer to reflect change? Trying to determine the ideal time to get tested. Thanks, ladies, and keep up the great content.”

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this is a great question from the other Jen, different Jen. I actually have been going down a rabbit hole recently. When I had on Harpreet, the CEO of Oura ring, on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, he introduced me to a girl who's a researcher. She researches specifically rhythms. Not so much circadian rhythms-- Oh, Gin, do you know the difference between circadian rhythm, and infradian rhythm, and ultradian rhythm?

Gin Stephens: That would be a negative. [laughs] I would just assume they're different rhythms of the body.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Circadian rhythm is 24 hours, so your 24-hour cycle. Infradian is longer than 24 hours, so it's like menstrual cycles, things like that. Then, ultradian is less than 24-hour rhythms, so it's things like blood sugar and stuff like that. I've been reading all of her research studies that she's worked on and prepping for the show. It's fascinating, because in one of her articles, she talks about how-- I think it's 32:1 ratio of studies that have been done on circadian rhythms versus ultradian rhythms. Basically, they're just not really researching this very much, but she has one, for example, on cholesterol, and triglycerides, and HDL, and ultradian rhythms, and it changes drastically throughout the day, your cholesterol levels.

Gin Stephens: Your cholesterol does?

Melanie Avalon: The HDL doesn't really, but the triglycerides and the LDL do, which is really interesting.

Gin Stephens: Well, we know blood glucose does, and yet you go get one-minute test snapshot in time, and it's so many decisions are made based on that.

Melanie Avalon: That's something they talk about in a lot of our articles is-- think about it. A lot of people just do one annual checkup. They determine basically, the entirety of their metabolic health based on that one snapshot that if they had gone a different day, even just a different time during that day, it could have been drastically different. Even in the study that she did on the cholesterol, for example, and I know Jen’s question is about insulin, but I'm going to circle back to it.

Basically, what they did in that study was they had people at home using a finger prick system, and testing their cholesterol all throughout the day for weeks, I think. I'm not sure how long the whole thing lasted. But everybody, every participant at some point during the day, their levels went into risk categories when it wasn't at other parts of the day. Isn't that fascinating?

Gin Stephens: Well, it makes me mad [laughs] frankly. You know why?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, there's a lot of reasons.

Gin Stephens: Well, that one snapshot period of time, and then, people are like, “Oop, you’ve got high cholesterol. Here are some meds,” when really that might have just been a peak of your day.

Melanie Avalon: They didn't really flesh out the significance. I find it really fascinating that HDL didn't really change, but LDL and trigs did. I'm really excited to hear her perspective on that. The point of all of that is that I am just really, really shocked about how much things change, and because we obviously have seen this with blood sugar with the CGMs, and for Jen’s question about insulin. I was really hoping that-- her name is Azure, which is such a beautiful name, Azure. I was hoping that one of her studies talked about insulin, but I didn't see it anywhere-- Oh, really quickly. What she's proposing and her work, and it's a reason that she's working with Oura is they're trying to see if you can measure other body stats like body temperature, and respiration, and stuff like that, and make better conclusions about your body state, rather than a single blood test. Particularly, she actually talks about the role of temperature and how it relates to diabetes. They're hoping that in the future that it might be possible to monitor blood sugar, and your diabetes status, and your need for insulin without actually taking your blood sugar, because they would be able to look at all of these other factors that are related.

Gin Stephens: So, they're trying to find a correlation with something else that the Oura ring measures.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Other rhythms, basically, other rhythms that would relate to the blood sugar in the insulin needs, which is very, very cool. The other reason I'm bringing her on is, she does a lot of work on the rhythms of the menstrual cycles and female fertility, and it's really exciting. That's part of the answer, is that it likely is changing, but I went one step further. I actually asked Dr. Benjamin Bikman this question, and for our listeners, he wrote the book, Why We Get Sick: The Hidden Epidemic at the Root of Most Chronic Disease and How to Fight It. Gin, you read that book, right?

Gin Stephens: Nope, I haven't read that one.

Melanie Avalon: We just talked about it a lot.

Gin Stephens: You've talked about it. I haven't read it yet.

Melanie Avalon: It's all about insulin. He thinks insulin resistance is the root of most diseases. I had him on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, I will put a link to it. But I asked him this question, and he said on Instagram, love Instagram. He said, “Insulin ebbs and flows even during fasting conditions. I'm unsure of the precise range, but it could easily fluctuate,” this is a lot, 5 plus. How is it measured? Why do you say it? The UU?

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't know what that-- I can't say that, but 5, whatever it is, it is off the scale.

Melanie Avalon: Per milliliter?

Gin Stephens: I don't know. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Even up to 10, which is considerable.

Gin Stephens: That is considerable.

Melanie Avalon: It could be changing substantially, and it's further concerning-- because it's hard enough to get a blood sugar test. You can do it yourself with a finger prick, or you can wear a CGM, or you can go to the doctor, but that alone people, often find a barrier to it, because they don't like pricking themselves, or they don't want to wear CGM, or CGMs are a little bit costly, or they don't want to go the doctor. The insulin test, you can really only get right now at the doctor, and it's hard to find a doctor that will prescribe it, because they often don't know that it exists, or they think it's not relevant. The point of all this is that I think checking your fasting insulin is super important, but there's definitely a barrier there. Were you going to say something?

Gin Stephens: You can order or get an order for a fasting insulin test. I can't remember the name of the website but my cohost on Life Lessons, Sheri was talking about it she did it. There's something like Walk-in Lab or something. I don't know. I can't remember the name of it, but there's some company that lets you pay them a very-- I think it's $25, and they will give you an order for a fasted insulin test.

Melanie Avalon: Do any lab tests now do it?

Gin Stephens: Maybe.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, well, maybe Gin, maybe we can look up and put in the show notes.

Gin Stephens: A company that'll do it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. For listeners, the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode221. That's super amazing and a super great resource, but even with that, to Jen's question, it's hard to know exactly where you are in the grand scheme of things compared to that one single snapshot in time. That's why I think a CGM, for example, and again, that's blood sugar, not insulin, for a CGM, but I think that's why it's so valuable for so many people, because it gives you a broad picture where you'd get a much better sense of, in general, how your blood sugar is, how you're responding to food, and it's not this one moment in time that may or may not be an accurate depiction of what you're experiencing.

Gin Stephens: Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon: I'll put a link in the show notes. I have discount codes. Well, so for nutrition CGM, if you go to melanieavalon.com/nutrisensecgm and use the coupon code, MELANIEAVALON, that will get you 15% off. Or, if you want Levels, they're at some ridiculous number of a waitlist but if you use my link, you skip the waitlist. That's melanieavalon.com/levelscgm. But as far as Jen's second question about, how long would it take for insulin to trend upwards or downwards, because she was saying that she noticed that it can take her a few days to recover her blood sugar levels after a high blood sugar day, or a high glucose day.

I'm trying to remember where I heard this, and it's not good to just quote something and not remember the source, but somewhere along the line, I was reading something, and it was saying-- this was, I think, on a ketogenic diet, how dramatic-- It might have been in Dr. Bikman’s book. I could revisit that. It was relatively fast how shocking of a change you could see in insulin trends. I don't remember it was three days or a week, but it was definitely somewhere in that sphere. Do you have thoughts, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, I do. We know that our blood glucose goes up, our body releases insulin to deal with that. That's what our bodies are supposed to do. Of course, when you have insulin resistance, it gets all out of whack, and your body releases more and more and more insulin over time, because you’re insulin resistant, and that's when your levels go up, up, up, up, up over time. Think of that curve just curving up the more demand you have.

I think a lot of it depends on how metabolically healthy you are. I have a hunch here. This is not me. This is not [laughs] hard science. My guess would be that if you're metabolically healthy, it's going to go up and down within a smaller range in a lower level versus if your insulin resistant, it's probably going to go up and down within a higher range. But I don't think it's going to go from way, way high to just boom, down low. I don't think it's going to vary that much. I don't think it varies quite as much as blood glucose, just based on what we know about insulin resistance. Do you think that sounds plausible, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Do you mean the difference between how much blood sugar fluctuates?

Gin Stephens: Well, I think that blood sugar fluctuations have so much to do with what you're eating obviously, we know that, what's going in, Also, how much insulin you're putting out, that's going to affect your blood glucose, obviously.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I see what you're saying.

Gin Stephens: But what I'm saying is, if you're insulin resistant, I think you always hang out at a higher level of insulin all the time.

Melanie Avalon: That's similar to, we talked about this before, Gary Taubes, his thesis. He thinks everybody has a baseline level of insulin, he calls it the insulin threshold, that below or above it determines how your cells are storing or releasing energy, that’s a little bit different nuance. It's a similar concept in that there's a threshold or a baseline, and people are all different.

Gin Stephens: We know that with hyperinsulinemia, that's overall high levels of insulin. That's a thing. That's a good diagnosis. I don't know that people are getting that diagnosis, but it's a real medical thing, hyperinsulinemia, high levels of circulating insulin all the time. I think that those people aren't zooming down too low and then back up to high. I think they pretty much hang out in the high all the time. I don't know that we have a lot of repeated insulin tests though, a lot of data, like we do with blood glucose, because blood glucose is so much easier to monitor. I know we have a lot of that data. I don't know how much insulin data, that would be interesting to know. But I do have one little tip for anyone getting a fasting insulin test, don't drink black coffee before you go. Because black coffee can cause your liver to dump out glycogen. Anything that makes your liver dump out glycogen is going to make your blood glucose go up, and that could make your body releasing insulin to go along with that increased blood glucose. You want to just stick to water only the time before you get your fasted blood work done.

Melanie Avalon: I'll put a link in the show notes though to Dr. Benjamin Bikman's book, because I'm just looking through it now briefly, and the entire book is about insulin. Because I read it a while ago, if any listener who wants to read it again and let us know if he answers the question about how many days it takes to go down, that'd be really cool.

Gin Stephens: I would have a guess though for her that if your blood glucose has trended up, for example, she talks about it, it takes a day or two after her indulgence for her blood glucose to trend down, I would expect her insulin would follow that curve, wouldn't you?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I would definitely think that they're correlated.

Gin Stephens: In a healthy body, they're supposed to be correlated. Even in an unhealthy body, they have correlations, obviously, but I would think that if your blood glucose is trending up, your insulin would be trending up as well. That's how it's supposed to work.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, actually, Gin, I’ve just realized this episode comes out July 12th. The episode that just came out on my show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast last Friday the 9th, was Gary Taubes. That's exciting. I'm so excited to release that episode. I will put it in the show notes. Did we get all her questions?

Gin Stephens: I think we did.

Melanie Avalon: Cool. Alrighty. Now, we have a question from Todd and the subject is “Pollen while water fasting.” Todd says, “Have you come across any info in regard to taking pollen while water fasting or any type of fasting? I would love to continue to take pollen to relieve allergy responses that my body has to grass and other things in the air, but I also want the best results while fasting, and I do not want insulin to become activated. I take it orally and I will include a picture. I did two days of fasting with a 16-hour window. Today, I am fasting continuously. I used to mix the pollen with oatmeal in the morning, but I decided to go without it while fasting to see how it went. I go on a three and a half to five mile walk in the morning and have noticed my itchy eyes are returning. I also take a prescription for allergies. If I went without the meds and without the pollen, I fear I would be miserable and breathing would be affected. Thanks for any advice on this matter.” Then, he has a picture of the pollen which-- He doesn't show us the label. It's very physical looking.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, like big old giant hunks of pollen. Not gentle little pollen that you can't even see, this is a chunk of pollen.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it looks like rocks or gravel. Looks like gravel.

Melanie Avalon: They're little granules of pollen that look maybe big old crystals of salt, but yellow.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, that's a good description.

Gin Stephens: We could just describe things. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That’s our talent. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: I love doing this podcast. Can I just say this is so much fun?

Melanie Avalon: Me too. Listeners, and then I went to the website to look up the actual product and they don't show the ingredient list, but they say that it is 100% raw, natural, and local bee pollen. Do you know what they say on the website? Can I read this to you, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Yes, I would be mad if you didn't.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. They say the only complete food in all of the world with the addition of roughage and water-- I don't even know why you would need roughage, I'm saying. But they say the human body can survive on honey and bee pollen alone. This is because it is the only food which contains all known 96 nutrients including vitamins A to K, including the full complex of Bs, 28 minerals, 14 fatty acids, eight essential amino acids. Oh, several hormone-like compounds, and 22 essential elements, folate, blah, blah, blah. You would have to eat so much bee pollen though to get that-- But this answer to--

Gin Stephens: [laughs] I'm imagining. Now, I literally for a minute was like, “How would that look?” Then, I'm like, “Someone's going to try that.” Someone's going to be like, “I bet you'd lose a lot of weight eating that bee pollen.”

Melanie Avalon: They say it's an antibacterial. Listeners, don't try. I know. Please listeners, do not try this. But that actually answers the question for me. I'm glad I read that because clearly, it's very high in protein, relatively speaking.

Gin Stephens: When you said the word ‘food’ that answered the question but reading that helped a lot. I would sadly, Todd, not have that during the fast. But you're having a 16-hour fast with an 8-hour eating window, I would think you could fit your pollen into that 8-hour eating window, like open your window with it, and then have it maybe at the end of your window. You would only be going 16 hours without it. Definitely take your medication during the fast, that's fine. Keep your medication whenever you need to take it. If you need to wake up in the morning, take your medication, and then keep fasting, and then open your window after 16 hours with the bee pollen, that's what I would do.

Melanie Avalon: That's what I was going to say, 100%. I'm not very schooled in using pollen to address allergies. But if it is something where you're just taking it once a day, no reason that you can't just open your window with it. Wow, I've learned so much. We can put a link in the show notes to this bee pollen. One he sent us is called Eagle Creek is the brand. That is so interesting. I wonder what it tastes like?

Gin Stephens: I don't know. If he was putting it in oatmeal, maybe it's delicious.

Melanie Avalon: I don't know.

Gin Stephens: Maybe you don't taste it at all.

Melanie Avalon: Does it help you with the allergies because if it's local than it has the pollen from all of the things you might be allergic to.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, you would think so. That's why local honey is supposed to be good. I don't really know, I'm not an expert on bee pollen.

Melanie Avalon: I just feel like I would react to it, it sounds-- I don't know, even if it was psychosomatic. The idea of putting pollen straight in my body.

Gin Stephens: It might be miraculous. Maybe we should all be having it.

Melanie Avalon: I'll find some here in Atlanta.

Gin Stephens: There probably is in Atlanta.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, okay. I'm going to do it. Hope I don't get anaphylactic shock.

Gin Stephens: Oh, please don’t. [laughs] That was the last episode of The Intermittent Fasting podcast.

Melanie Avalon: I could take some in the ice bath that I make, and then they find me frozen with anaphylactic shock, like that's how I went out. [laughs] Moving on.

Gin Stephens: All right, we have a question from Anisha, and the subject is “IF Before Your Period.” She says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I really love your podcast. It's been keeping me company during long lockdown walks. I'm from the UK and have been doing IF in different varieties for a few years. I've played around with one meal a day, 20:4 etc. Since two weeks ago, I am now trying 5:2 and loving it. I started off eating 500 calories on down days, and then moved to two 36-hour fasts per week, as I found it was easy to just not eat at all.

However, this week on my second fast for the week, I'm struggling. I'm pretty sure it's due to the fact that I am now due in less than a week and getting PMS symptoms, cravings, low mood, mood swings. I have read online that you shouldn't fast the week before your period as it causes too much stress to the body. I'm wondering if you have any research about this. Should I maybe go back to eating 500 calories the week before my period if I do persevere? I feel I probably can. Am I causing my body too much stress? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Melanie Avalon: All right. This was a great question from, how did you say it, Gin, Anisha?

Gin Stephens: I did.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. We've been talking about this. I feel a lot on recent episodes. We've always been getting questions like this. But Gin, do you feel like we've been getting even more and more questions about this all the time?

Gin Stephens: Yes. Yes, because more and more people are starting to say the women shouldn't fast thing. It's like picking up steam. It's like the mantra, breakfast is the most important meal of the day, and eat six small meals to boost your metabolism, and women shouldn't fast. I put all that together in the same advice camp. I really do.

Melanie Avalon: The figures where it's been popularized, we talked about before, Alisa Vitti in her book, In the FLO and Woman Code. She has popularized this a lot. What's interesting is, Dave Asprey’s book, I feel people read that and felt like he said, women shouldn't fast, but he didn't say that at all in that book, which I found really interesting. He literally said at one point something to the effect of I don't think women shouldn't fast. Actually, right now, the book I'm reading, because I'm going to bring her on the show, is Stephanie Estima. Have you heard of her?

Gin Stephens: I have not.

Melanie Avalon: She wrote a book called The Betty Body. I really, really like it. She talks about this a lot. She has not as an intense of an approach to Alisa Vitti. What's going on here, I think, is if you look at the phases of the menstrual cycle, which I am learning so much about and it's so exciting. But basically, we have the follicular phase, the ovulatory phase, luteal, and then our menstrual cycle. In the luteal phase, which is the three-fourths of the way through, it's the latter half of your cycle before your period, our metabolic rate does increase. People often think that they have cravings for stuff right before their period, and it has something to do with needing carbs or something like that. A large part of it though is just that actually our metabolism actually does increase.

Gin Stephens: Can I pop something in here?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Our body temperature goes up as well. Those two things are very tightly correlated. Anybody who's taking your temperature, I did that for fertility when I was trying to get pregnant. I took my body temperature, and it's fascinating to see as your cycle goes on, your temperature goes up, and that is when your metabolism is also going up.

Melanie Avalon: I think that's the main thing that-- I was talking about Azure earlier, the researcher. The main thing that she's working with Oura on is them adjusting the Oura ring to track fertility and female cycles with body temperature.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I think I've talked about this before, but my cohost on Life Lessons-- This is the third time I've mentioned her, Sheri. She has an Oura ring. She had ablation done a while back, so she doesn't actually have her period that she sees, but she knows she's still cycling, because of her temperature. She can tell from her Oura ring.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow. That's really cool.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, She told that story on the Life Lessons podcast. I'm not telling stories out of school here, but she can actually see her hormones fluctuating by her body temperature.

Melanie Avalon: It's very much linked. I think partly from this has come this idea that we need to be eating more right before our period. In Alisa Vitti book, she said, it was the equivalent of around 300 calories per day. I haven't looked at the studies beyond that to see if that's consistent across the board. In any case, I have so many thoughts about this. As far as it causing too much stress. I think, one, I want to say that a lot of people, especially, my Facebook group, because people have been talking about this. A lot of people do report that they have adjusted their eating and their fasting for their cycle, and that they have benefited from it greatly. It's not like they stopped fasting before their cycle, it's just that they're more-- maybe they have a longer window, or they're just not as intense as they might be other times. I think it's so, so easy, or it's so often that people are eating restrictively while doing fasting, and they're attributing that restriction to fasting, so they're using fasting as a synonym for restriction when fasting does not have to be restrictive.

One girl posted in the Facebook group, and I thought this was such a good example. She's wonderful, and she posts in the group all the time. She was commenting on a post, and she was saying how she had been restrictive IF keto and then she went more lenient and tried to adjust for her cycle, and it was like a game changer. I think that's an example of changing from being restrictive in general to not being restrictive compared to changing from fasting to not fasting. Does that make sense?

Gin Stephens: 100%. Because that I really think is the key. We say that women shouldn't fast, but what women shouldn't do is over-restrict. We've got to take away the idea that fasting is necessarily over-restriction. One of my friends, she's a moderator in the Facebook community still. She shared yesterday in the moderator group, a screenshot of her diet she did back before she did fasting, and it was her diet journal where she was recording her calories, and what she was eating. She was eating 1200 calories a day, and just looking at the food, it was coffee and a protein bar. That was breakfast, Lunch was a latte and a bagel. It was so restrictive. Dinner was like a chicken breast and whatever.

That is the kind of restriction that is going to make your body think something terrible is going on. So, why are we not telling women not to do that, but we'd never not? I never heard anybody say, “Hey, women don't do low calorie diets. They're bad for you.” But for some reason, she now is leaner than she was when she was doing that crazy restrictive diet, eating all throughout the day, breakfast, lunch, dinner, trying to stick to 1200 to 1300 calories a day. She's leaner now. She's not counting calories. She's eating till she's satisfied. She feels better.

You tell me, which is the one that is going to be worst for your body? The one where you feel awful, and you're restricting all day long? Or, the one where you are feeling great, and you're fasting, and then you eat to satiety every night? Our bodies are not dumb. That's why you have that increased urge to eat before your period if you need more food, your body's like, “Hey, eat some more food,” and you do. Then, you go on about it. You shouldn't stress about the fact that you have to eat more before your cycle, that's not wrong. You're listening to your body. Our bodies really don't want us to over-restrict. But when we tried to do this over restrictive diets, we felt awful, and our bodies fought back. Do what feels good to you. I want us to stop trying to find that externally from other people telling you what you shouldn't eat and when. Even all these people who are like do intermittent fasting, XYZ, well, I don't know, how do you feel?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, even with all of the cycle stuff and taking that into account, because I'm all about data, and learning about your body, and knowing what's happening but I think there's a balance that can be achieved in knowing that, and feeling empowered by that without feeling you have to adjust the entirety of your life around it. I think it should be more intuitive than planned.

Gin Stephens: 100% yes. Yes. Because honestly, throughout history, people just ate and lived. That was it. Now, we're making it so complicated. Listen to your body. If you feel great, that's a good sign. If you don't feel great, that's a bad sign, honestly. That's how simple I want you to make it.

Melanie Avalon: Just really quick one last thing about her question. She says, should I go back to eating-- because she was doing ADF. Oh, she was eating 500 calories on her down days. So, how do you feel about her doing ADF before her period?

Gin Stephens: If she feels like she doesn't feel good, it sounds like she feels like she needs to eat more, her body is saying eat more. I wouldn't try to muscle through ADF if my body was telling me to eat more that day, and it felt bad. I would just eat. Now, I wouldn't just say no, I'm not fasting, but I would have an eating window that felt right to me.

Melanie Avalon: I think that's great.

Today's episode is brought to you by Green Chef, the number one meal kit for eating well. I've been at the beach this week with my family, and we did a lot of eating out. You know what I missed the most? Green Chef. The good news is that when I get home on Thursday, my Green Chef box will be on my doorstep waiting for me. I'm ready to enjoy black bean and sweet potato tacos with kale, corn, and slaw, chimichurri beef stuffed peppers with guacamole rice, and roasted corn, and roasted sauerkraut and sausages with sauteed mushrooms, caramelized onion, and a kale and cabbage slaw.

As you can hear from my selections, Green Chef’s expert chefs design flavorful recipes that go way beyond ordinary for a diverse array of meal plans and plenty of options to choose from each week. Everything is handpicked featuring organic veggies and high-quality proteins delivered to my door premeasured and mostly prepped in insulated packaging. So, I know that if it's delivered before I get home, it'll still be fresh when I unload the box.

Besides how delicious and convenient Green Chef is, I really love that Green Chef is the most sustainable meal kit, offsetting 100% of its direct carbon emissions and plastic packaging in every box. So, you can feel great about what you're eating and how it got to your table. Go to greenchef.com/ifpodcast100 and use the code, IFPODCAST100, to get $100 off, including free shipping. That's greenchef.com/ifpodcast100. Don't forget to use the code, IFPODCAST100, to get $100 off, including free shipping. Now, back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: All right. We have a question from Carolyn. The subject is “Jiggly menopausal thighs.” Carolyn says, “Hi ladies, I know this is a ‘superficial question.’ I get it that subcutaneous fat is not as dangerous as liver or visceral fat, but I must come clean and confess that it really peeves me that although my postmenopausal body is in pretty great shape, and I feel mostly amazing, my thighs may never see short shorts or skirts again. I'm using red light therapy, have tried cupping, two treatments so far. Get regular exercise and have an almost completely clean diet. I fast 20-ish hours daily with the occasional earlier window and a few ADFs thrown in recently. I know I should count my blessings that at 53, things are quite fine, and I shouldn't concern myself with this issue. But I'd really love to have my firm thighs back. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I thought for sure Gin’s new book was going to have the play on words ‘fastinating’ in the title somehow. Ha-ha. If anyone out there wants to steal the title, it's up for grabs. Love you ladies so much. PS: I do use some Beautycounter products and I'm going to bite the bullet, and go all in very, very soon.” Then with lots of XOs. Awesome. All right, can I say something really quickly by the way?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: I don't think it's a superficial question. I don't think it's wrong if their body looks a certain way, if that makes you feel more confident in your skin. I don't think that's superficial. People can feel glowing and happy from an outfit that makes them feel really good, so is that superficial? I don't know. I just ponder this a lot. That's all I have to say about that. My soapbox.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I agree. Then, I'm going to have some bad news. I’ve got some bad news for Carolyn, and some bad news for Gin Stephens. I went through menopause. October of 2020 was where I officially hit the one-year mark. Right on average, 51 is the age women usually go through menopause, get to the other side, that's exactly when I did it. I hate being so average, Melanie. I like to be above average, anyway. [laughs] I was average on menopause. Anyhow, my skin has changed a lot over the past year, and I'm just going to say, I totally get it, Carolyn, because I'm looking down at my legs, and I'm like, “Why does my leg look like my grandmother's leg instead of my leg?” It has to do with the hormonal changes that we go through as we get older, which does affect our skin elasticity. I don't think there is any magic potion or supplement that is going to give you back your premenopausal self. I'm sorry, I really don't. I think that we just have to accept that we are aging, and we can either embrace that we're aging or we can be really frustrated. I've decided to embrace it.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to continue to do intermittent fasting, and if I wanted to try something to try to firm something up, I certainly could, but I'm not going to expect my skin to go back to how it was premenopause. Because I think I’m going to be disappointed if I try. I can't exercise my skin back to how it was. It wasn't the fasting and the weight loss, because I haven't changed my size over the past year through menopause. But my skin elasticity is different.

Think about your grandmother. I think about my grandmama, Calhoun, and I always thought she was just beautiful. She had just very, very ivory skin, and it was very soft and gentle. I don't want to use the word ‘saggy,’ because that sounds terrible, but that's the negative form of it, would be saggy, but it just was soft and beautiful. But I see my cheeks losing their shape a little bit and looking a lot more like my grandmama. We've just got to recognize that we feel amazing-- I feel amazing. I'm at the beach, and I'm going to put on my bathing suit, and my thighs don't look as good as they did a year ago, even though my waist size is actually down. So, I haven't gained weight but my skin looks different. I don't know, Melanie. What do you have to say about that?

Melanie Avalon: I think I have some good news for you.

Gin Stephens: Okay. I would like to hear the good news.

Melanie Avalon: And for Carolyn.

Gin Stephens: Okay. I'm not sure there's anything we can do. I know that everybody's trying to sell us something we can do, but what do you think?

Melanie Avalon: Well, I think you nailed it with the changes that happen hormonally and how it's a natural thing, and it's harder to come back, especially if you're doing all the things. I will say, as far as completely clean diet, it's hard to know what that is exactly, and macros can sometimes affect things. But I do think this is more something to be addressed if you actually want to address, because there are a lot of things out there right now that promise to address this. Carolyn said that she tried cupping and red light therapy, for example. I actually did a lot of research on this. I did a blog post, and I haven't updated it yet with the thing that I actually think does work the best, so I need to do that. But the blog post is melanieavalon.com/fatcells, and I go all into the science of fat cells, and collagen, and how these different treatments that they now proclaim to get rid of cellulite and target fat from the outside in with these treatments whether or not they work. I actually feel out of all the things, because there are a lot of things, I think that the Cryoslimming, and Cryotoning treatment works pretty well for this.

Gin Stephens: Do you know what I'm talking about? Is that going to increase skin elasticity? See, that's the thing.

Melanie Avalon: That's what it's for basically. There's also something called venous treatments, which is also supposed to do that. The Cryoslim is for targeted fat burning and tightening up. The Cryotone is just the tightening. Either of those are potential, but I've seen before and afters, and I've met people who have done it, and it's very effective. It is a bit cost prohibitive, and the reason I'm saying this is because Gin really nailed it with how hard it is to address, because of the hormonal situation, because of how you are. On the one hand, it's like, “Oh, that seems too good to be true,” because it requires no effort. It's not doing the hard work. It's not diet and exercise. But that actually might be why you need something like that, because diet and exercise might not tackle it.

Gin Stephens: No, it's not. Your skin is literally different than it was before. The pictures you've seen are of postmenopausal women having done it? Because I promise you, if you're looking at before and afters, the people that are have not been through the transition, it's totally a different thing. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: They are.

Gin Stephens: All right, well, I want Carolyn to try it, and report back, and then I will go try, because you know I'm not the quickest to go do something. [laughs] Now, my thing is, I'm embracing it.

Melanie Avalon: Which I think is totally great too.

Gin Stephens: But it's like things are melting. [laughs] It's like my body is melting. What's happening?

Melanie Avalon: Well, yeah, because you're losing that collagen production. These treatments, what they do is they stimulate that collagen production directly.

Gin Stephens: Well, that makes sense. You would need to do that in order to see a difference.

Melanie Avalon: They're using temperature, and I don't know exactly what the energy part of it is, but it's something, and it's targeted to-- It's basically giving the cells in that area, because it's targeted treatment, the signal to create collagen.

Gin Stephens: Do you have to go get boosters and do it frequently?

Melanie Avalon: The Cryoslim and the Cryotone, yeah, you do it once every two weeks for five or six sessions, or until you've addressed it completely.

Gin Stephens: But then, it's probably going to-- If it's just increasing collagen, that's not going to be permanent.

Melanie Avalon: The Cryoslim also kills fat cells. The reason is it’s for two weeks is because it takes two weeks for the-- They want the body to eliminate the dead fat cells through the lymph system, similar to CoolToning.

Gin Stephens: Or CoolSculpting.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, similar to CoolSculpting. I just really like this Cryoslim way, way better than the CoolSculpting from what I've seen. The Cryoslim is doing the fat cells, and it's using the targeted stuff for the collagen production, and then like I said, the Cryotone is just the collagen. But as far as the permanentness, I think it is maintainable. I think so.

Gin Stephens: Well, I'm a skeptic. I'm going to admit, because to me, I don't know how the loss of collagen would be reversed and then permanent. That's my question. I understand if it's changing your fat cells, that's a whole different thing.

Melanie Avalon: Well, you'll have to. I would love for you to try.

Gin Stephens: I'm a skeptic. [laughs] Okay, listeners, if you do this, and you are like a provider, you can do it for me for free, and if it works, I will tell everyone forever, and you never have to pay me another thing. I will for free tell everyone forever. [laughs] But I'm not willing to go out and try it because, I'm not going to pay a lot of money for something that I'm a skeptic about. But I'm optimistic. I would do it. I would try it.

Melanie Avalon: If given the opportunity.

Gin Stephens: If given the opportunity, yeah. Anyway.

Melanie Avalon: All right. I need to update that blog post though, because right now it doesn't include Cryoslim. It just talks about CoolSculpting, but yes.

Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the podcast, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode221. You can follow us on Instagram @ifpodcast, @melanieavalon, and @ginstephens. You can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. All right, well, anything from you Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. The music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jul 04

Episode 220: Counterfeit Fast.Feast.Repeat. (Beware!), Cheesemaking, Fiber Supplements, Upset Stomach, Bathroom Habits, IF Newbies, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 220 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

 JOOVV: Like Intermittent Fasting, Red Light Therapy Can Benefit The Body On So Many Levels! It Literally Works On The Mitochondrial Level To Help Your Cells Generate More Energy! Red Light Can Help You Burn Fat (Including Targeted Fat Burning And Stubborn Fat!), Contour Your Body, Reduce Fine Lines And Wrinkles, Produce Collagen For Epic Skin, Support Muscle Recovery, Reduce Joint Pain And Inflammation, Combat Fatigue, Help You Sleep Better, Improve Mood, And So Much More!! These Devices Are Literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

 PREP DISH: Prep Dish is an awesome meal planning service which sends you weekly grocery and recipe lists, so you can do all your meal preparation at once, and be good to go for the week! It's perfect for the IF lifestyle! And better yet, the meals are all gluten free or Paleo, which is fantastic if you're already doing so, but also a wonderful way to "try out" gluten free or Paleo with delicious meals, and no feelings of restriction!! We can't recommend them enough! Get A Free 2 Week Trial With The Paleo, Keto, And SUPER Fast Menus (plus More!) At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

BiOptimizers: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Get Their Full Spectrum Magnesium Supplement To Fix Your Magnesium Status, Containing All 7 Versions Of Magnesium! Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

4:10 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

Get $50 Off and Grow Muscle 3x Faster Than With Weights! Go To  melanieavalon.com/x3 and use the coupon code SAVE50

23:20 - PREP DISH: Get A Free 2 Week Trial With The Paleo, Keto, And SUPER Fast Menus (plus More!) At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

25:10 - Listener Q&A: Jennifer - Glucomannan

31:40 - Listener Q&A: Rebecca - Less Frequent Bowel Movements? Lol Sorry!

51:30 - BIOPTIMIZERS: Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

54:15 - Listener Q&A: Jill - Brand New To IF World

Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

Go To blublox.com And Use The Code ifpodcast For 15% Off!

TRANSCRIPT


Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 220 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. Okay, we have thrilling news about Joovv. They have new devices and we have a discount. Yes, a discount, no longer a free gift, a discount. As you guys know, there are a few non-negotiables in my personal daily routine. I focus on what and when I eat every single day. And I also focus on my daily dose of healthy light through Joovv’s red light therapy devices. Guys, I use my Joovv all the time. Red light therapy is one of the most effective health modalities you can use in your home. I've personally seen so many health benefits, I find it incredible for regulating my circadian rhythm, helping my mood, boosting my thyroid, smoothing my skin, and I've also used it on multiple occasions for targeted pain relief. Anyone who's familiar with red light therapy pretty much knows that Joovv is the leading brand. They pioneered this technology, and they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use. Since then, they've remained the most innovative, forward-thinking light therapy brands out there.

And we're so excited because Joovv just launched their next generation of devices. And they've made huge upgrades to what was already a really incredible system. Their new devices are sleeker, they're up to 25% lighter, and they all have the same power that we've come to expect from them. They've also intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. They've also upgraded the setup for the new devices with quick, easy mounting options, so your new Joovv can fit just about any space. And the new devices include some pretty cool new features, things like their Recovery Plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves an extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near-infrared light. And this is my personal favorite update. For those of us who like to use do devices to wind down at night, they now have an ambient mode that creates a calming, lower intensity of light at night. Guys, I am so excited about this. Using this light at night is way healthier than bright blue light from all of our screens, and much more in line with your circadian rhythm. I was using my current Joovv devices at night anyway to light my whole apartment, so this new ambient mode is really going to be a game-changer for me. Of course, you still get the world-class customer service from your helpful, friendly Joovv team.

So, if you're looking for a new Joovv device for your home, we have some very exciting news. You can go to joovv.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST. You'll get an exclusive discount on Joovv’s newest devices. Yes, discount, I said it. That's J-O-O-V-V dotcom, forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Exclusions apply, and this is for a limited time only. We'll put all this information in the show notes.

One more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer, is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare and makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. Did you know that conventional lipstick for example often test high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years and your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body.

Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter, and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter.

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right now enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode 220 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am cranky.

Melanie Avalon: Oh.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. [laughs] I have got to tell you what just has been happening over the past few days that is kind of unbelievable and infuriating, you're going to be like, “What?” It has to do with Amazon and Fast. Feast. Repeat.

Melanie Avalon: Can I guess?

Gin Stephens: You can guess, but you're going to be wrong. You're going to be a little right, but a little wrong. [laughs] I guarantee you're going to be on the right track. What do you think it is?

Melanie Avalon: Something with how they're selling it?

Gin Stephens: Yes. Something with the listing.

Melanie Avalon: Oh. Did they put it in their own category?

Gin Stephens: No.

Melanie Avalon: Did they change the title?

Gin Stephens: No. It has to do with the copycat books that are out there.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. Are those ranking higher?

Gin Stephens: No, not even that. For people who don't know, if I go way back, if you've been listening for a long time, you'll remember, as Melanie will, how Delay, Don't Deny--

Melanie Avalon: Are they selling the copycats as your real thing?

Gin Stephens: Yes, and let me explain, it is wacko. If you remember back in-- I think it was 2018, I got an email-- actually it was like a Facebook messenger from somebody I didn't know. They're like, “Hey, I am an author on Amazon, and my book has been counterfeited, and people are selling it, and your book is also being sold by the same counterfeiter that’s selling mine. So, you may want to check and see if yours is legit.” Well, turns out, to make a long story short, it was a counterfeit version, had a different font, it had different typos. They had been selling a counterfeit version in the Buy Box on Amazon through third-party sellers for months. They finally got that taken care of, but I didn't know it could happen, because when you go to Amazon and you buy something and you click Buy Now, you don't pay attention where it's coming from, you're on Amazon, you're on the main listing for whatever it is, whether it's bug spray or a book, you just click Add to Cart, you buy it.

Well, they changed something in 2018 so that anybody could get the Buy Box, if theirs is the cheapest, it's to protect the consumer because you're going to get the best deal. It might not be Amazon selling it. It might be Larry's House of Books, for example, selling your copy for cheaper than Amazon. They want you to get the best price. Well, Larry's House of Books might have some counterfeits. That's the problem, and that was what was happening with mine. It wasn't Larry's House of Books, but it was these other third-party sellers. I just made up Larry's House of Books, if it really exists, I'm sorry, Larry. [laughs]

Anyway, my book had been counterfeited for months. Well, that's one of the reasons I really wanted to go with a traditional publisher for Fast. Feast. Repeat., which I did and we haven't seen any counterfeits of it, but what they're doing now is copycats. If you go to Amazon and search for Fast. Feast. Repeat., there's like this crazy, several, probably multiple blank books. You could go and you could like self-publish a blank book called What When Wine, and it could have nothing in it, but blank pages, but it's called What When Wine, and it might be by Melanie Avalano.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I see.

Gin Stephens: There's Fast. Feast. Repeat. by like Ginna Stephano.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, listeners, look this up. There's like 20 million.

Gin Stephens: They're all fake, but they're not even real books, but they copy the title a little bit. They copy the way it looks.

Melanie Avalon: So, what happens if you buy them?

Gin Stephens: You get a copy of a blank book. Okay, but it's not illegal to use someone else's title because titles can't be copyrighted or trademarked unless they're in a series like Chicken Soup for the Soul. Like for Delay, Don't Deny, I was able to trademark that because it had a series of books, Delay, Don't Deny, Feast Without Fear, has Delay, Don't Deny delayed on tonight in the title. Then, even Fast. Feast. Repeat. has Delay, Don't Deny in the title. It's a series. It's trademarked, but Fast. Feast. Repeat. is not trademarked. So, here's the thing that was alarming. I got a message from somebody who's like, “Hey, I was showing your book to somebody and I told them to buy it, and I clicked on the listing for it, and then we looked at the Kindle version, then we looked at the Audible version, then we clicked back to paperback, and it went to the fake one.” When you were in the real listing, the real listing for Fast. Feast. Repeat, if you clicked away from the paperback for a minute and went to Audible, and then click to Kindle or whatever, and clicked back to paperback, it was the fake one was in the real listing. The fake cover, the fake name of it, you would get the fake one. Here's what's so infuriating. You can look and see how many copies a book is selling, the fake version of Fast. Feast. Repeat. was ranked number 26,000 out of all books on Amazon, which means a lot of people were buying it, a lot of people over the past week have bought the fake cookbook, blank book version, when they were actually in my real listing. Can you believe it? Somehow got merged, the fake one got merged with the real one.

I was like, “Emergency,” to my publisher. And they first didn't understand what I was telling them. They just thought I was complaining about the fake one. I'm like, “No, I'm complaining because the fake one is in the real listing.” It was the fake cover, it popped over to the fake cover when you would click on it. It seems to be fixed today. But as of yesterday, it was still going to the wrong one if you clicked away from it, can you believe the nerve of these criminals? How did they get it merged with the real one?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, how did they?

Gin Stephens: I don't know. They are so crafty.

Melanie Avalon: Did you talk to Amazon at all?

Gin Stephens: No, I did not. I put it in the hands of my publisher because that’s who-- they have a department and a legal team, but they have to go through it, through the right department, finding the right department, but it looks like they have fixed it but it just made me want to throw up, because also think about someone who has ordered the book, thinking they're getting Fast. Feast. Repeat., and then this nonsense shows up, can you see it's like not even by Gin Stephens, it's by some name that's close to mine? One of them was by Stephen Gin or something like that. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That's crazy.

Gin Stephens: It is crazy, and it is absolutely infuriating. Then, the next thing that will probably happen is people will start leaving one-star reviews for Fast. Feast. Repeat. saying, “I got a blank book. This book is garbage.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: That'll probably happen next. “Don't buy this, it's fake.” But no, they're piggybacking on the main listing. Y'all, please don't do that. If you ever get a counterfeit book, please do not leave a review on the real book because it shows up as-- even though you got the counterfeit book, it actually affects and hurts the real book, because that's what happened with Delay, Don't Deny after the counterfeit came out. People who thought they were helping, they're like, “I ordered, and I got a fake one. One star, don't recommend.” I'm like, “No, no, no, stop doing that. You're giving Delay, Don't Deny one-star reviews, not the fake one.”

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness.

Gin Stephens: This book is counterfeit. No. [laughs] It's the seller, that's the problem. Anyway, why can't people just find a different hobby than faking other people's books?

Melanie Avalon: And stealing from people.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, if they put all of their creativity to good.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, because they clearly have skills.

Gin Stephens: They’ve got skills, but people are buying it. That's the thing, because it's ranking so high. I mean 26,000 may not sound high, but it is.

Melanie Avalon: Well, if you think about how many books there are in the world. It's pretty high.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's when I really got my publishers attention on like, “Do you notice that it's ranked 26,000, which means that people are buying it.” They're like, “Oh, that's not good.” [laughs] They're thinking they're getting the real one and they're not. Oh, my God. Anyway, I just had to share that story. Listeners, if you get the fake one, return it to Amazon and [laughs] get the real one. Story number one of why Gin does not buy supplements on Amazon anymore. If it's that hard to buy a book.-

Melanie Avalon: That stuff you're putting in your body,-

Gin Stephens: Right.

Melanie Avalon: -makes you a little bit nervous. Well, I'm sorry. [laughs] I'm going to put it out to the universe that that does not happen again. Seems like it was dealt with faster this time around than last time maybe?

Gin Stephens: Well, it took a little longer. Well, I figured out a way to deal with the counterfeits, personally where I didn't even have to involve Amazon, and it worked really well, I'm not going to tell what it was. [laughs] My secret way of dealing with the counterfeits, and basically, I assumed--

Melanie Avalon: This sounds-- [laughs] gosh.

Gin Stephens: I assumed that the third-party sellers, were also victims of a counterfeit and didn't know. I approached them as of that. They always took it down when I approached them that way, but you had to do a test buy. I've done so many test buys of Delay, Don't Deny, because I know when they're fake-- if I hold it in my hand, I know, there's certain things to look for, with the font and with the typos. There's so many versions of the fake one. It's like remarkable. The 2018 fake ones cycled back through earlier this year. But the third-party sellers, whether they know or not, they pretend like they didn't know and they're like, “I'm so shocked. I would never sell a counterfeit,” and they take it right down after I do my test buy and contact them. If I said I wasn't going to tell my secrets, I'm telling my secrets. But I have to look at it like all the time.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Wow.

Gin Stephens: I know when one is counterfeit, because the number of copies they have available, I can just tell. Good times. [laughs] Yeah, it is not easy, trying to just do a legitimate job. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I know. That's how you know you've made it, I guess.

Gin Stephens: Well, at least there's not a fake podcast, Intermittent Fasting.

Melanie Avalon: That's what I was just thinking about, I was like, “Wow,” but that would be really hard to do.

Gin Stephens: What if they had somehow gotten it so that when people thought they were downloading Intermittent Fasting Podcast through the real listing, they got like them--?

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness, like something else.

Gin Stephens: Fake people.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Oh, that would be really upsetting. Man, if that happened to my show, my Melanie Avalon, I would cry.

Gin Stephens: It feels so out of control, because we trust these big companies. We need Amazon to protect everyone who's selling things, and it doesn't just happen to books, it happens to people who are selling any product on Amazon. The counterfeiters and the scammers are so crafty. My dream would be for Amazon to contact me and say, “I want you to be on our team helping us solve this problem,” because I have so many ideas about how they could just put some more cross checks in place and things, and it's fixable. They could fix it.

Melanie Avalon: Well, maybe somebody who works for Amazon is listening. Send us an email to questions@ifpodcast.com.

Gin Stephens: I would love to help them solve the problem, not just for me, but if it's happening to me, how many people is that happening to? What's up with you?

Melanie Avalon: I had that interview with Dr. John Jaquish. The guy I was talking about, I read the book, Weight Lifting Is a Waste of Time. It's really revolutionized my ideas about exercise. I really want to start using his system, which I should because it is sitting in my apartment. The long story short, and listeners you're going to have to listen to the episode because it was so, so good. The long story short is that I guess with normal weightlifting, we are limited by our range of motion. We're limited by the weakest part of our muscle, when we're doing like a certain movement. I don't do weightlifting, when you're picking up something or certain movement, the bend or the point where you have the weakest potential that limits your entire movement and you can't get the maximum stimulus of your muscle. So he has a resistant band system that apparently gets rid of all of those issues, and you only have to do it like 10 minutes is the entire thing a few days a week.

We talked about this, I think, last time. He talks all about how exercise science, a lot of it's just incorrect. I'm really excited. I have a link for them. If listeners want to get the system themselves, so I want to put that out there. It's melanieavalon.com/x3, and then the coupon code, SAVE50, I think gives you $50 off, but I'm going to start using it. I feel brands and people send me stuff a lot, and it just takes me until I actually interview them or sit down and do the research and then like, “Okay, I really want to start using this.” So, I'm excited. I might actually start using it. That's the biggest thing. Do you want to jump into fasting stuff?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's do. We're all about everything today. Consumer advice, exercise.

Melanie Avalon: I have one more fun thing. When I do my one meal a day at night every night, it's usually two to four hours. I actually read during it. I know they say you're not supposed to-- when you eat you know you're not supposed to be reading or whatever.

Gin Stephens: They say a lot of things.

Melanie Avalon: I know, it's my me time and it's my book reading time, and it's my research time. It feels so good to just-- I don't know, read and research and eat, which is fabulous. In any case, I usually start the beginning of my one meal a day reading, like, the books that I need to be reading and taking notes and all that. Then, I transitioned into the random stuff that I want to research that's more casual. Fun fact. Do you know why cheddar cheese is orange?

Gin Stephens: Hmm. Why is it orange? I don't know. Is it something that the cows are eating?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: Is that right?

Melanie Avalon: Sort of, not really. Yes, a little bit, [laughs] because I was researching cheeses, and all the additives, and I was like, “Why is cheddar cheese orange? I want to make my own cheddar cheese.” Okay, so originally--

Gin Stephens: Well, not all cheddar is orange. There's white cheddar.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Originally, back in the day, when they were making it, the milk that was often used to make cheddar cheese was the milk that was really high in beta carotene, so that the cows that were eating grass--

Gin Stephens: See, that's what I thought.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Back in the day, the quality of the grass created the beta carotene color in the cheese. They wanted cheese that was more orange because it meant there was more vitamin A or beta carotene. Now, that is no longer the case. All the cheddar cheese that you see at the store, it's an additive. That kind of blew my mind. I was like, “I'm going to make my own cheddar cheese.” Then, I googled how to make it. Gin, it's the most complicated thing, I think, I've ever read-- I didn't even finish reading. I was like, “I can't do this.”

Gin Stephens: No. Now, there's certain types of quick cheeses you can make. I actually have a book.

Melanie Avalon: Cottage cheese.

Gin Stephens: Well, not only cottage cheese. I have a whole book about quick cheese making. I can't remember the name of it. Somebody in one of my groups one time was like, “Gin, you would love this,” I bought the book and put it on the shelf. [laughs] And I haven't made any.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I will say so-- It's kind of like remember, in Harry Potter when they were trying to make the potions. Listeners, just google how to make cheddar cheese. You have to heat it to these very specific temperatures and then move it around and add things. I couldn't even finish reading. I was like, “I can't.” Then, I skipped to the bottom, and it was something to effect of like, “That wasn't too hard, was it?” [laughs] I cannot-- I can't do it.

Gin Stephens: Hey, I can mill wheat into flour and make bread. That's good enough, and then I'll just buy some cheese. But I'm so proud that I was right that it was what the cows were eating. That's why flamingos are pink, for example, based on what they're eating.

Melanie Avalon: That's why salmon back in the day was orange color. Well, it's still from what they're eating, it's just fed into them. Okay.

Gin Stephens: Very good. Yeah, I'm not going to make cheese.

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to make cottage cheese and I'll report back. It seems very approachable.

Gin Stephens: Okay. Well, let me know and then maybe I'll pull that book off the shelf.

Melanie Avalon: Because I want fat-free cottage cheese. You can really only do that if you make it yourself, if you don't want all the crazy stuff they add.

Gin Stephens: The additives. Dairy is tricky. Dairy is one of the hardest things not having whole foods, trying to find good organic, everything, not easy. Here in Augusta, that is. It's probably super easy in Atlanta.

Melanie Avalon: It is easier, for sure.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody. Today, I want to tell you about Prep Dish’s New Super Fast Menus. These are in addition to their three existing meal plans, Keto, Paleo, and Gluten free. Instead of scrambling and spending every single night prepping meals, do all of your prep at once in under one hour. You'll get delicious healthy meals on the table, even when you have limited time. If you've been a longtime listener, you know we're huge fans of Prep Dish. No more scrambling at each meal. Instead go into mealtime with a plan. Like Melanie would say, “You've got this.”

Prep Dish subscribers now get four menus every week. Gluten free, Paleo, Low carb keto, and the new Super Fast menus. Now, you can prep a whole week's meals in just an hour. You don't have to choose between meal prep and spending precious time with your family. With Prep Dish’s new Super Fast Menus, you get fast food, but it's homemade and healthy. If you've thought about trying Prep Dish but worried you wouldn't have time to do the prep, now is a great time to check out the free trial. The founder, Allison, is offering listeners a free two-week trial, and you can get that by going to prepdish.com/ifpodcast for this amazing deal. Again, that's prepdish.com/ifpodcast, and your first two weeks are absolutely free. Try it out, see what you think about the new Super Fast Menus, and then send us an email. Let us know, how you like it. Now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, on that note, books and cheese, and now we can jump into everything. We have a question from Jennifer. Jennifer says, “Good morning, I just started IF, 20:4, one meal a day, two weeks ago. My pants are already looser, and the scale shows down between 7 to 10 pounds. I still struggle with hunger during the weekdays at work. I think mostly because I despise my job, so the days drag and I daydream about food to distract myself. Being so unhappy and bored at work does make fasting more difficult in my opinion. Food was always something I looked forward to daily since I dread going to work every day. Now, I am binge listening to the podcast all day to keep me motivated to stay with my fasting schedule. I'm on Episode 93 as of this morning.

I do work a second job weekends, and one weeknight and I love that job. Tonight, since I have to work immediately after my day job, I will be attempting a 45-hour fast. I close my window at 9:00 PM Tuesday and I will open it at 6:00 PM Thursday. Wish me luck. Anyway, my question is about--” what did you say, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, I always say glucomannan. That could be wrong. I don't know that I've ever heard anybody say it out loud. Listeners, we might be saying it wrong. Glucomannan is how I think it said but who knows.

Melanie Avalon: “My question is about glucomannan supplements. In my previous life, as a calorie counter, I tried taking glucomannan to try and trick my stomach into feeling full and eating less. It didn't work for me well, because I didn't necessarily eat when hungry. I just ate whenever, often when stressed and as a reward for having to deal with this terrible job. However, now I apparently have a very active migrating motor complex as my stomach growls, and I feel queasy often throughout the day. I thought maybe this supplement would help with that. Thoughts? Would it break my fast? Thank you both for your books, your time, your podcast, and your passion and for sharing it with the world. I do believe that you are well on your way to changing the world. Have a great day, Jennifer. PS.” Yes. I was going to say this. She said, “Yes, I am actively looking for a job I love. Wish me luck.”

Gin Stephens: I'm sending you so much luck, Jennifer. Wishes for luck.

Melanie Avalon: I hadn't read her PS the first time through, and the first thing I was going to say was, “Maybe look for a new job?” Wishing you luck, Jennifer.

Gin Stephens: All right, I have a lot of things to pop in about this, Jennifer. First of all, I want to say you're only two weeks, so your body is still adjusting. So, that is why you're having trouble right now. You're not yet adapted to the clean fast. During the adjustment period, if you feel shaky or queasy, we want you to go ahead and eat, because you don't want to feel queasy and shaky, and you won't feel that way when your body is adjusted to fasting. Also, make sure you're fast and clean. You probably are if you've been listening to our podcast, but just really double check that you're only having black coffee, plain tea, nothing added at all, plain water, no fruit added in there and nothing for flavor, no flavored anything, don't have flavored coffee. Make sure you're not doing any of those little things because that could actually make you feel worse, and you don't realize that if you're not fasting clean.

Let's talk about the glucomannan, that would be a no. We don't want to try to trick our stomach. You don't need to do that. First of all, you don't want to add things into your digestive system that are bulky, like glucomannan, fiber, any of that. Fun fact, I also tried that as a trick back in the day. It was on Dr. Oz. Did you ever see it on Dr. Oz, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: I didn't see it on Dr. Oz.

Gin Stephens: Oh, I tried everything that was on Dr. Oz, but he was like, “Here's the number one trick to glucomannan.” I went out and bought it just like the rest of America because everything would be all sold out.

Melanie Avalon: I used to cook with it.

Gin Stephens: Did you? Ugh. As a thickener?

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. I used to get the powder. If you mixed it up with-- what would I mix it up with? I would make this really, really-- Oh, I would get like low carb Atkins chocolate milkshake things and if you added the glucomannan, it made it into this really thick pudding.

Gin Stephens: Good times. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: And it would sit in my stomach for day-- I'd be like, “Argh.”

Gin Stephens: It could actually literally hurt you. Glucomannan could actually clog you up in a way that is dangerous. This is not something I would recommend for anybody to do because it really could be dangerous in your digestive system. I remember hearing about that later, after Dr. Oz was like, “Try this,” then people like, “Maybe don't try that.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I remember being shocked, I would mix it in with the stuff and it would get really thick. Then, I would usually eat it right away, but if you let it sit a little bit longer and come back to it, it would just perpetually thicken. It's like, “Ugh,” oh, gosh.

Gin Stephens: But you definitely don't want that during the fast, 100%, not during the fast, but I also wouldn't do it during your eating window, because I think it also binds with nutrients and keeps your body from-- that sounds like a really fast way, if you're using it in you're eating window, to nutrient deficiencies, because we really want to be nourishing our body with good food. I would take that glucomannan and throw it away, you don't want to try that. Now, I want to have a little note about this 45-hour fast where you're opening your window at 6:00 PM, I actually don't recommend that. If and when you get to reading Fast. Feast. Repeat., I want you to go to the Alternate Day Fasting chapter and read the part about having an up day after a down day. You need to open your window on the up day after a longer fast, so that you have enough time to have an up day, which would be at least two meals in a window of at least six to eight hours. 12 is even fun. When they did the research on alternate day fasting, there was no restriction on the up days. People would get up in the morning and eat whenever they felt like and eat the whole day.

If you're opening your window at 6:00 PM, you're definitely not going to have time to do an up day after 6:00 PM. I would always do shorter, 36 to 42 is really a better length because then you have time to fit in an up day after that. I think I got it all. Body is still adjusting, glucomannan in the trash, you need an up day, boom.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect. Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes, this is from Rebecca. The subject is “Less frequent bowel movements? LOL, sorry.” [laughs] I had to read the whole thing. I love that, Rebecca. All right, Rebecca says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. First, I want to say that I'm so, so grateful I found you ladies in November of 2018. You both completely changed my life. After struggling with weight gain and binge eating for years, and all of the mental struggles that go along with these issues, I started IF, lost about 65 pounds and have kept it off with ease. I've often seen many non-scale victories. Chronic pain from a foot injury decreased, skin tags fell off, mental clarity throughout the day, don't think about food constantly anymore, mental health has improved, etc.

However, I noticed one odd thing that has been consistent throughout these last two and a half years. There's no easy way to say this, so I'm sorry to be blunt, LOL, but I don't poop as much as I used to. Before starting IF, I used to have a daily bowel movement without fail, but ever since I started fasting, I would say, I average one bowel movement every three to four days. I don't feel constipated or uncomfortable or in pain. But it worries me that I don't have a daily poo anymore. Again, sorry for the awkward topic.

My question to you ladies is why the heck is this happening? Is this okay/normal? Is there anything you can recommend to do or to take to help me become a bit more regular? Any info or suggestions you provide will be greatly appreciated. Some background. I'm 28, eat mainly, whole foods, but I'm not super strict because of my binge eating habits in the past, and walk about four miles daily. I usually follow a 20:4 fasting pattern and start eating at 7:00 to 8:00 PM at night. I'm a total night owl like you, Melanie. Wolves unite, sleep chronotype quiz reference.” I love that by the way. That's just me talking.

She continues to say, “I'm looking forward to hopefully hearing your thoughts about this. Thank you both so much for everything. You're truly making this world a better place. Love from Boston, Rebecca.” That's the second question to say that, Melanie, that may have given me the chills.

Melanie Avalon: About making the world a better place?

Gin Stephens: Yes. That is the same thing that Jennifer said, and now Rebecca said it. I'm feeling--

Melanie Avalon: It's not on purpose.

Gin Stephens: What?

Melanie Avalon: I said it was not on purpose.

Gin Stephens: I'm like we are making the world a better place on purpose, and then I got what you meant.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and I love the sleep chronotype quiz reference as well. Although, I am a dolphin, like I said before.

Gin Stephens: You have now figured out that you're a dolphin.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I am. We talked about this, Dr. Michael Breus’ The Power of When.

Gin Stephens: I'm still a lion.

Melanie Avalon: Still a lion. Yep.

Gin Stephens: And I'm a Leo

Melanie Avalon: Yep. For listeners, the lion’s the early riser, the wolf is the late night, wake up late, and that dolphin is just the restless insomniac that can never sleep. I was thinking about this this morning. All of my biohacking hacks for my sleep, they really work. I sleep eight or nine hours every night and I pretty much sleep straight through.

Gin Stephens: Well, that doesn't sound like a dolphin to me.

Melanie Avalon: Well, it's all of the biohacking stuff. I am definitely a dolphin, I would not be sleeping if I hadn't really attacked it. Because obviously with his book, he provides tools and tips and tricks to take charge of it. But even if you fix it, it's not like you change your chronotype.

Gin Stephens: Okay, so naturally, you would have insomnia.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Okay.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. But all the light and all the-- because normally the dolphins are like super sensitive to everything, so they're not sleeping, and then they're not-- with the mental stuff. They're just much more likely to respond to everything that would make them not sleep. My point is, this stuff works, that's why I talk about it all the time.

Gin Stephens: I might be a lion riding on a dolphin. [laughs] Well, I didn't have trouble with insomnia, really until menopause.

Melanie Avalon: I think I told you, the quiz that you take, if you're a dolphin, it'll identify you--

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I'm not a dolphin. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: It asks all these questions, about rumination and sleeping on planes, can you sleep on airplanes?

Gin Stephens: No.

Melanie Avalon: Maybe take the quiz, I'm curious.

Gin Stephens: I've taken it before.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, you have?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, and it said lion.

Melanie Avalon: Okay.

Gin Stephens: But I could take it again.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if it changed at all with menopause. He says you do change throughout life.

Gin Stephens: I did take it in the fall.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, when you were still in menopause?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. You probably are. He said menopause is when most people become lions or dolphins. Maybe you became a more dolphin-y lion.

Gin Stephens: That’s why I said, I'm a lion riding on a dolphin. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I don't remember what kids are, like, babies. But teens are wolves usually. And then adults are bears/your natural chronotype.

Gin Stephens: Teenagers, definitely. It's been amazing as a mother to watch both my boys go through that change. They really do stay awake all the time at night, but then want to sleep all day, just naturally. And then, they stopped doing it naturally, when they get older. It's been fun. Will gets up early like a normal person now, and so does Cal.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow. I can never get up early. Oh, I was talking with one of my friends the other day on Voxer. Do you ever use Voxer?

Gin Stephens: No, I don't know anything about it.

Melanie Avalon: It's like a voice app, and he sent me a Vox like 8:00 AM. He was like, talking and then he was like, “What am I doing now?” He's like, “Maybe I'll take like a nap.” I'm like, cracking up. I was like, “I don't understand. How early did you have to get up if you can take a nap at 8:00 AM?” This blows my mind. If I was up at 8:00 AM, I don't remember the last time I was up at 8:00 AM.

Gin Stephens: I've already been up for a while by 8:00 AM.

Melanie Avalon: What?

Gin Stephens: I can't imagine the last time I slept till 8:00 AM.

Melanie Avalon: [gasps]

Gin Stephens: Even when I would go to the beach with friends, and we would stay out really late, and I wouldn't get to sleep till like 2:00 AM, this is recently, I still wake up at 6:00, 6:30 AM.

Melanie Avalon: Oh my gosh. If I'm up at 6:00, it's because I didn't go to bed. If I was up at 8:00, I would be so proud. So proud of myself.

Gin Stephens: If I'm up at 6:00, it's a day that ends in day. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Wait, if you're--?

Gin Stephens: It's a day of the week that ends in day, that's all the days. I always wake up early. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Did not follow that. I was like, “Does that mean it's still daylight when you go to bed? It's daylight when you wake up?” Good times. For Rebecca's question, this is a really great question, and it's something that I see a lot perusing the carnivore Facebook groups, which I'm not currently carnivore. I do know that when I did my carnivore-ish thing for a while, where I was basically just eating meat and coconut oil, I have no idea how often I was having bowel movements, and that's really a little bit shocking for me that I reflect on now. I just realized I'm talking about my bowel movements to all people listening, but that's okay. Now, I am wanting things to be flowing, and it's a concern of mine. So, it's weird for me to think that there was a time when I didn't even think about it. It seems to be a very common thing, like I said, in the carnivore world, because people are doing-- there's no fiber. The question-- and I'm not saying that they are the go-to authority on this, but a lot of people have healed themselves, their digestive issues with a carnivore diet. I'm not suggesting a carnivore diet. I'm just using this to explain my answer.

The question that they usually ask themselves, do you feel constipated, or do you feel uncomfortable, or do you just feel normal, but you're not having daily bowel movements? Usually, 70% of the time the people in those groups say that they feel completely normal, but they're not having bowel movements, but then 30% of the time, they say they do feel kind of stuffed up. I know that's a very casual way of looking at it, do I feel constipated or do I not? I know they say that you're supposed to be having daily bowel movements. But if there are people not having daily bowel movements, free of health issues, and feeling fine, it's hard for me to say that their gut state isn't a “healthy one” or that that's a problem. It's really hard to know.

I think we are so in the infancy still of the gut microbiome and there's so many intense polarizing ideas about it, especially when you look at the carnivore side versus the very plant-based side. What gut bacteria signify a healthy digestive state and what does it all mean? Basically, it's just really, really hard to know. And then, that was a carnivore example, but in the fasting world, I think people do experience this as well. My suggestion is the question that you already asked, so do you feel constipated or uncomfortable? If you do, then hands down, I would look at addressing it. If you don't, I would leave it up to you. If you're not stressing about it, and you're not feeling unwell, I don't know that I would stress out too much about it. Either way, the answer will be the same. So, as far as to how to get more bowel movements, if you like, magnesium is a great thing for that.

Actually, I think I did this on purpose, but BiOptimizers is actually a sponsor of today's episode, they make a really awesome magnesium supplement that uses all seven types of magnesium, because there's seven types, and most of the supplements on the market don't contain all the seven types. Oh, it was so interesting. I take that supplement. When we were recording the newest ad for them, which I think is the ad running on this episode, and I asked on my Facebook group for listeners who have used it to provide their testimonials if they liked, and so many people commented. Oh, my goodness, I was a little bit overwhelmed, which is really exciting how it's helping so many people, but a lot of people find that really helps their bowel movements. If that magnesium doesn't, there are magnesiums that have even more of a laxative effect. The natural--

Gin Stephens: Like citrate.

Melanie Avalon: Magnesium Citrate, I like the Pure Encapsulations brand. That works really well. Natural Calm, it's magnesium, I forget which form is in that, but that works.

Gin Stephens: I think that one's also citrate.

Melanie Avalon: I thought it was, but I actually don't think it is. Wait, let me check. It says magnesium citrate on part of the bottle, on part of the listing on Amazon. It says, “magnesium citrate is better absorbed by your body than magnesium oxide.” But then when you go to the ingredient list, it says magnesium as magnesium carbonate. That is so confusing.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that must be just how it's created. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: But magnesium carbonate is different than magnesium citrate.

Gin Stephens: I'm married to a chemist, he could probably explain why it's not, but I don't know. I would guess.

Melanie Avalon: Well, in any case, I find that it works really well, especially because you make it as a drink. In addition to the magnesium, you're getting all the liquid with it. If you really want a magnesium that will just have a laxative effect, it's really not going to give you any of the health benefits of magnesium besides the laxative effect, magnesium oxide, I think is what it is, but this specific brand is Mag 007. That is kind of the last-- if you just need to pull out all the stops. The thing about magnesium is the reason I like it for bowel movements is, it's not habit forming. It's not going to injure your intestines or anything like that. It really just keeps things moving through. GI docs will often prescribe laxatives, like--

Gin Stephens: Like Ex-Lax? I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: There's like all the ones that you can get over the counter. I just don't see any reason to do those because magnesium will give you the exact same result. Other things that can help, vitamin C also has a laxative effect. Then, there are other types of laxatives that actually work by a stimulant mechanism. So, that's things like Senna and cascara. But I don't really recommend those because there's debates as to whether or not they can be habit forming. So, I would really go the magnesium route and/or addressing the food choices. She says that she's eating mostly whole foods. The reason I actually first went because, listeners know I often follow a really high protein, low fat, high fruit diet. Honestly, the reason I first got allured with the high fruit part of it was that I found that it really did just keep things flowing. So, playing with your food choices also will-- obviously going to supplements is the last thing I actually want to do. Ultimately, I think it would be the best to address it through food choices. So, playing around with what you're eating can have different effects as well. That was a really long answer, Gin.

Gin Stephens: Did I tell you that I finally switched to BiOptimizers Magnesium?

Melanie Avalon: Yes. How is it going?

Gin Stephens: I'm really enjoying it.

Melanie Avalon: Yay. How many do you take each night?

Gin Stephens: Two.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Do you find it helps your sleep?

Gin Stephens: Yes. The reason I think that I struggled with it is because it took me a couple nights for me to get that effect with their magnesium, like the first night I didn't sleep very well, and the second night, I didn't sleep very well. I'm like, “I am going to try this again,” because the magnesium I had been using for so long, like way before even we'd met BiOptimizers, like the one I'd been using for since like 2014, I think they changed their formulation. I heard from someone that they had. And then, I'm like, “Wait a minute, that might be what's happening.” Then, I was at the beach, and I didn't have it with me. I grabbed like a cheap one, just at Target because I was at Target and took just an over-the-counter cheap Target brand and slept better. I'm like, “There is something wrong with my magnesium. That is true.” Then, I got back home and I'm like, “Okay, I'm going to try this BiOptimizers.” Like I said, the first couple of nights, it might have taken a while for it to build up for whatever reason, because it's all those different types, so I don't know. Since then, it's been great. I'm officially using it. Anyway, it’s only taken me this long. When I find something that works, you don't want to change it till it stopped working. Again, I think they changed my old one. Anyhow, I have a one-word answer for helping with constipation, and that word is beans. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. Beans would kill me. If I were to eat beans, I would be so constipated.

Gin Stephens: What?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Okay, I recently have started-- I told you I was making dried beans now. Did I tell you that? I got all these fancy beans, and I'm like soaking them and making them in the-- I have the Pampered Chef version of the Instant Pot, which is amazing. I'll make my beans in there, in the pressure cooker.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, what is the Pampered Chef version special about the Instant Pot?

Gin Stephens: Well, it's the only one I have. I've never used the Instant Pot. I don't know how they compare.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, it's not the Instant Pot brand.

Gin Stephens: Right. I don't have the Instant Pot, but I have the Pampered Chef version pressure cooker. Similar idea, but it's not an Instant Pot. It's the Pampered Chef Quick Cooker. Anyway, long story short, I wanted-- Kleenex, you just say Kleenex, I guess you just say Instant Pot now, even though that's not the one I have. Anyway, when I eat a lot of beans, like I go to the bathroom, like good ones. Okay, there's way too much information, sorry, but multiple times in one day in a good way.

Melanie Avalon: It would be so funny if we were doing this podcast in front of the audience, if we could see the audience.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Would they be horrified? Sorry.

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. I just don't know how much I would be saying all of this.

Gin Stephens: I know. That's true. I probably would.

Melanie Avalon: I probably would. No, I would.

Gin Stephens: I'm at the point where-- we were trying to figure out today how many millions of downloads we've had of this podcast, and we were based on-- like it, we knew it was 7 million at one-- Anyway, I'm like, so now--

Melanie Avalon: It's fine.

Gin Stephens: Millions of people know that feed Gin beans, and she's going to be going to the bathroom a lot, but in a good way. When you're going to the bathroom the right amount, it just feels good. That's all I'm going to say.

Melanie Avalon: Actually, can I do a public service announcement as we're talking about this?

Gin Stephens: Sure.

Melanie Avalon: I will say for anybody if they ever just find they're at this place of constipation, of misery and that nothing is going to change, getting a colonic can be so, so helpful. The reason this is a public service announcement, is don't do the closed system. Because if you go to the closed system and have a bad experience, you're going to write off colonics, but the open system is a game changer. That's my public service announcement. Find an open system.

Gin Stephens: Okay. I would like you to guess. Is Gin ever going to have a colonic? Yes or no? Audience, go ahead and make your guess before Melanie makes hers. And now register your guesss. And now Melanie, make your guess.

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: No. [laughs] Nope.

Melanie Avalon: It feels so good.

Gin Stephens: Not doing it. Sorry, not doing it.

Melanie Avalon: I told you about how I interviewed that woman in her 70s. Did I tell you that?

Gin Stephens: No.

Melanie Avalon: Dr. Ann Louise Gittleman?

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. I think you mentioned that. I didn't know she was in her 70s, or maybe I forgot.

Melanie Avalon: She is wise and older, and is a multiple New York Times bestseller. On the interview that I did recently with her, she mentions colonics in her book, and I asked them about her, and she said that she thinks they are one of the key factors in her longevity. And that made me so happy.

Gin Stephens: Well, good. I'm glad that--

Melanie Avalon: She has a system in her home, I am so jealous.

Gin Stephens: Well, you can go right from that to your cold shower. [laughs] Again, good times. I did want to add something, and you said it, you touched on it, but I want to reiterate what you said or should I just say iterate, that I'm going to reiterate that Rebecca, if you feel good, that is a good sign. I genuinely believe that if you don't feel uncomfortable, you feel good, then as long as you're feeling good, that's a sign that things are working well. That's what I think. Our body lets us know when things are not by sending us the feelings.

Melanie Avalon: I agree with that. I thought of one other thing. You can also try coffee enemas, if you like. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Oh, Lordy.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] This can be game changers for a lot of people. Their main thing is not for bowel movements. It's more for liver detox.

Gin Stephens: I'm going to put coffee in the mouth. [laughs] Send it down that way. It can then just do what it does on its way through. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: They're actually pretty easy to do once you start doing them.

Gin Stephens: All right. I'll believe that. Just like I'm going to grind my own wheat and make some beans. [laughs] Maybe I'll make cheese if I really want to go crazy. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Make the cheddar cheese.

Gin Stephens: No, I don't have time for that.

Melanie Avalon: If we ever meet in person, we can make cheddar cheese together.

Gin Stephens: Well, okay, that would be fun.

Melanie Avalon: That could be a fun time. [laughs] Okay, do you think we sufficiently answered Rebecca's question?

Gin Stephens: And then more.

Melanie Avalon: I think so. [laughs] Okay.

Hi, friends. I am a huge proponent of getting our nutrition from food. When all else fails, I feel food is the way to go. That said, there are some nutrients that are super hard to get in today's environment. Did you know that 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium? Our soils are so depleted of magnesium today, that it's really, really hard to get enough of this crucial mineral. It's actually the number one mineral to fight stress, fatigue, and sleep issues. I've been doing a lot of research on minerals, especially the calcium-magnesium balance, and I walk away from so many conversations I have with experts just realizing more and more how important magnesium is. I personally love magnesium for its stress-reducing effects, as well as helping with my digestive issues. Yes, magnesium is the single most studied mineral in existence. It actually powers over 600 critical reactions and our bodies.

But did you know that there are multiple types of magnesium? That's why I am so excited to share with you, the magnesium product that I discovered, is called Magnesium Breakthrough by BiOptimizers, and it combines all seven essential forms of magnesium into one convenient supplement. Most magnesium supplements actually fail, because they are synthetic and are not full spectrum. But when you get all seven critical forms of magnesium, pretty much every function in your body gets upgraded, from your brain to your sleep, pain and inflammation, and less stress. With this one simple action, you can help reverse your magnesium deficiency and all of its forms. This is by far the most complete magnesium product ever created, and until or unless someone comes out with a better one, I highly recommend you give it a try. I can't tell you how many times I get feedback in my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, about people who have truly benefited so much from Magnesium Breakthrough.

We have a special offer just for our listeners. You can get 10% off Magnesium Breakthrough if you go to magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast and enter the code, IFPODCAST10. That's M-A-G-B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H forward slash I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T with coupon code, IFPODCAST10. Once again, that's magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. By the way, that coupon code is good for 10% off any order, so definitely take a look around the BiOptimizers website for other supplements that might benefit your health. I'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

All right. We have a question from Jill. The subject is, “Brand new to IF world.” And Jill says, “Good afternoon. I am brand new to the IF world, actually just beginning my second week. I began listening to your podcast on iHeartRadio and I am on Episode 14. I'm currently reading Fast. Feast. Repeat. and it is extremely helpful. I'm doing the one meal a day, 20:4 or 21:3. I have adjusted well despite not having my stevia and creamer-filled coffee. For the past several years, I have taken over the counter sleep aids and nightly. ZzzQuil.”

Gin Stephens: ZzzQuil. I think it's just ZzzQuil.

Melanie Avalon: “ZzzQuil or Unisom. While taking this medication at the end of my feeding window cause any unwanted delay in my fasting window?”

Gin Stephens: I just have to say something that's really exciting that I just noticed by looking at Jill's email address.

Melanie Avalon: She's in the government.

Gin Stephens: Well, she's from Greenwood, South Carolina, which is where my mother grew up, and my brother lives there now. It's like home. Anyway, like old family home. I never lived there, but I always visited. I was always there for holidays. So, hello, Jill. I feel like we're neighbors. Also, my parents, my dad is from Ninety Six, South Carolina, which is right down the road.

Melanie Avalon: Nice, small world.

Gin Stephens: Yep, I just got excited because I saw that she was from Greenwood. All right, so Jill, I'm so glad that you are finding Fast. Feast. Repeat. to be helpful. Now, I have two things I want to say. The first I'm going to say, taking something get right before bed. Let's just say random anything, is taking something at bedtime going to break your fast? Here's my universal advice for that. If you have an evening eating window, let's say-- I'll use myself as an example. I usually close my window by about 7:00 PM these days, usually. So, I'm not eating after 7:00 PM. And then, let's say I go to bed at 10:00 because it's summer, and it's still light at 9:00, and I can't get to bed when it's light outside, so I'm making myself stay awake till it's dark, so it's 10:00.

I take my magnesium at that time, even though my eating window is closed, and I don't even concern myself with what's in it or whether it breaks the fast. Why is that? It's because I am not deeply into the fasted state by that point, it's been like three hours since I closed my window. So, a little medication at that point is not-- and then I'm going to bed. Even if it was something that broke the fast, I'm not deeply into the fasted state yet anyway. I feel like it would be different taking something at hour 18 of the fast for example, would be more likely to disrupt your fast than taking something before you're really even in the fasted state. Keep that in mind.

Now, let's talk about taking ZzzQuil or Unison long term. I don't think that's recommended. I know that sleep is really important, but I don't think that you want to take those long term for sleep. I would try to find something else. Go back to magnesium that we were just talking about before. Magnesium helps a lot of people get a good night's sleep and it's essential nutrient. Some of those may have for example, Benadryl, whatever that ingredient is, I can't remember. Whatever's in Benadryl is often an ingredient in these sleep aids, like Tylenol PM or whatever. It's an antihistamine, that actually is linked to weight gain over time, taking a lot of that. I would absolutely not, if I could help it, rely on some of those over-the-counter sleep aids, and instead I would try a magnesium approach and also really work on getting your bedroom just ideal for sleep, making it dark, getting the pets out of there, things like that.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think you really nailed it. I forgot that this question was in the lineup, but I agree about not taking the sleep aids every single night. Now, I was just thinking more about what has been the thing that has made me be able to sleep so well. It's definitely the magnesium. It's the Feals CBD. I really think that has just-- I don't want to say it changed me as a person, but taking it consistently, really, really I think modulated my cannabinoid system and got rid of a baseline level of underlying chronic stress that I had. The cool thing about CBD and they are not a sponsor on today's show but they do sponsor shows, is most people experience a reverse tolerance effect. What I mean by that is, you often need less the longer you take it, it's not something like caffeine where you need more and more. It's just because it's modulating your cannabinoid system.

I would maybe try that. Try Feals and our code for them since they're not our sponsor is, it's 50% off, which is crazy. So, that's feals.com/ifpodcast with the coupon code, IFPODCAST. The magnesium, Gin just touched on it but making sure your sleeping environment is very conducive to sleep, so the blackout curtains, oh, game changers. Blue light blocking glasses before bed. We love BLUBlox. The coupon code, IFPODCAST, will get you 15% off at BLUBlox. I use those every single night in my life. I love their Sleep Remedy Mask that also completely blocks out. It's amazing because you can completely open your eyes when you're wearing it, and not even really realize. It makes everything look really dark. It's amazing. That's at BLUBlox. And working on just your mental health and your stress, so gratitude journals, turning off social media before bed. There's a lot, and I'm telling you, insomnia is in my core, and this stuff really works when you really commit to it and keep it going. And the great thing, the fun bonus of all of that is then you can have, what do you say it? ZzzQuil?

Gin Stephens: It's like NyQuil.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I'm getting confused seeing the Z-Z-Z in a row. But, yes, it's the ingredient that's in Benadryl, which is diphenhydramine, I think that's how you say it.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I didn't even try to say that one.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] The great thing is, because I went through a period where I was taking that every night, this was a long time ago. I still keep in my back pocket, it's in my counter.

Gin Stephens: Do you know why I don't take it?

Melanie Avalon: Why?

Gin Stephens: Because I'm one of those people that does the opposite.

Melanie Avalon: Right, makes you awake.

Gin Stephens: My ADHD brain, that's very linked to people with an ADHD brain. It does the opposite. It makes me wired.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. That's crazy to me. Especially if I haven't been taking it, it knocks me out. I love the relationship that I have with it right now, because I'm not using it every night. It's rare that I use it. But if ever there's a night where for some reason-- usually if I have to be up really, really early for something, and I'm like I'm just not going to-- the anxiety of having to get up early and like trying to fall asleep earlier is not going to happen, then I just pull out a Benadryl. I don't do the ZzzQuil, I do just Benadryl, and it will knock me out. It's really wonderful. That's why I think it's really fabulous to have modern medications, because when you're not using them chronically, they can be pretty amazing when you need them. Like with pain medication, same thing. If you've had something where you're in a massive amount of pain, and you need pain medication, there's definitely a time and place for that, and it's wonderful that we have access to that. It’s when their way into our lives chronically that they can become addictive and no longer offer all of the benefits to make up for the side effects of being on them chronically.

Gin Stephens: I get it. If you're having trouble sleeping, that you're just desperate to find something and then it's easy, they're over the counter, they work, and [unintelligible [01:02:03] that for me, [laughs] because my brain is crazy, but I get the attraction to them.

Melanie Avalon: Yep. 100%. I know she was asking about it for the fast which you answered. I think there's a bigger thing there that she possibly can benefit from.

Gin Stephens: Yes, I think so too.

Melanie Avalon: I'm glad she asked about it.

Gin Stephens: Me too.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. You can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com if you'd like to submit your own questions, or you can go to ifpodcast.com, and you can submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode220. There'll be a full transcript in those show notes, so you can definitely check that out and we'll also put links to everything that we mentioned, all those links and discounts and all of that stuff. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast, I'm @melanieavalon, Gin is @ginstephens. And I think that's everything. Did you see my most recent Reel, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I'm not sure. What was it about?

Melanie Avalon: It was my ideal dating list.

Gin Stephens: Oh, I did see that. Yep, I did.

Melanie Avalon: I was thinking about that. A lot of people have been messaging me about that.

Gin Stephens: Trying to find your man?

Melanie Avalon: Yes. [laughs] Good times. But, yes, I love Instagram. So, follow us on Instagram. Oh, and you can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. All right, well, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it. Don't buy fake books on Amazon. That’s all I-- [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Oh, and if a listener has ever made cheddar cheese, will they please write in and tell me about it?

Gin Stephens: Awesome. Yes. All right. Bye.

Melanie Avalon: Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jun 20

Episode 218: Growing Your Own Food, Insufficient Calories, Food Reactions, Fasted Marathons, Tea, Detoxing From Cigarettes, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 218 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BLUBlox: Overexposure to blue light in our modern environments can lead to increased anxiety, stress, headaches, and other health conditions. Even a tiny exposure to artificial light can completely offset your circadian rhythm! Unlike many “blue light blocking” glasses on the market, BLUBlox provides glasses that block the exact blue wavelengths you need to regulate sleep, reduce anxiety, and much more! They also provide different types of glasses for the time of day, season, and your personal electronic and light exposure! Plus, for every BLUblox purchase, they donate a pair of glasses to someone in need! For A Limited Time Go To blublox.com And Use The Code Save20 for 20% Off Of Orders Up To $159, Save25 for 25% Off Of Orders Over $160, Or Save30 For 30% Off Of Orders Over $315!

INSIDETRACKER: Get The Blood And DNA Tests You Need To Be Testing, Personalized Dietary Recommendations, An Online Portal To Analyze Your Bloodwork, Find Out Your True "Inner Age," And More! Listen To My Interview With The Founder Gil Blander At Melanieavalon.Com/Insidetracker! Go To insidetracker.com/melanie And Use The Coupon Code MELANIE30 For 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

JOOVV: Like Intermittent Fasting, Red Light Therapy Can Benefit The Body On So Many Levels! It Literally Works On The Mitochondrial Level To Help Your Cells Generate More Energy! Red Light Can Help You Burn Fat (Including Targeted Fat Burning And Stubborn Fat!), Contour Your Body, Reduce Fine Lines And Wrinkles, Produce Collagen For Epic Skin, Support Muscle Recovery, Reduce Joint Pain And Inflammation, Combat Fatigue, Help You Sleep Better, Improve Mood, And So Much More!! These Devices Are Literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BLUBLOX: For A Limited Time Go To blublox.com And Use The Code Save20 for 20% Off Of Orders Up To $159, Save25 for 25% Off Of Orders Over $160, Or Save30 For 30% Off Of Orders Over $315!

4:30 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!!

20:50 - INSIDETRACKER: Go To insidetracker.com/melanie And Use The Coupon Code MELANIE30 For 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #17 - David Sinclair

22:50 - Listener Q&A: Emily - Too Few Calories? And How To Assess Food Issues?

FEAST WITHOUT FEAR - Book Links

FOOD SENSE GUIDEGet Melanie's App To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, histamine, Amine, glutamate, oxalate, salicylate, sulfite, and thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, reactions To Look For, lists of foods high and low in them, the ability to create your own personal lists, And More!

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #46 - Dr. Will Cole

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #19 - Dr. Michael Ruscio

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #62 - Dr. Becky Campbell

36:00 - Listener Q&A: Bulbul - What changes can I make to my fasting style so I can lose weight?

46:00 - Listener Q&A: Nydia - Running while fasting.

Intermittent Fasting Stories - Episode 121: Lisa Glick

Exercising While Keto: 11 Tips For the Transition To Keto (and For Long Term)

49:05 - Listener Q&A: Brian - Quick Questions

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #98 - Dr. Will Cole

54:15 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

57:15 - Listener Q&A: Kacie - Not sure what to do and where to start

Get A Free 2 week trial At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

Clean(ish): Eat (Mostly) Clean, Live (Mainly) Clean, and Unlock Your Body's Natural Ability to Self-Clean

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #95 - Jonathan Bailor

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 218 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment., pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I'm about to tell you about a very limited time sale for up to 30% off my number one biohacking thing. Yes, my number one biohacking thing. There's something I keep getting asked recently. I got asked in Dave Asprey’s Virtual Biohacking Conference, I got asked on two recent podcast interviews I did. Everybody keeps wanting to know, what is my number one biohacking thing. It's really, really hard because there are so many incredible things which truly upgrade and enhance my life, but I've been thinking about it a lot, and honestly, probably the one “biohacking” thing I cannot envision my life without is my blue light blocking glasses. I've been using blue light blocking glasses for years and they are a game changer.

In today's modern environment, we are way overexposed to blue light. It's a type of wavelength naturally found in daylight. It's also very, very high in artificial light and computer screens. Now blue light is good because it keeps us alert and awake. our overexposure to it today is not so good. All of the blue light that we are exposed to leads to things like excess stress, headaches, anxiety, and insomnia. If you're having trouble falling asleep at night, get blue light blocking glasses now. Every single night of my life, I use my BLUblox blue light blocking glasses to take charge of my light exposure. BLUblox makes clear computer glasses. You can use those throughout the day, especially if you're staring at screens a lot. They still let in blue light, but they block a lot of the damaging excess blue light. BLUblox also makes their SummerGlo glasses. Those are tinted with a special yellow color, scientifically proven to boost mood and then they also block more blue light as well.

Finally, BLUblox has their Sleep+. Guys, you've got to get these. You put them on in the evening and they block 100% of blue light. A lot of the blue light blocking glasses on the market aren't actually blocking the blue light, like you need to be blocking. That's why Andy founded BLUblox. All of their glasses are tested to block that blue light, and they come in so many styles, so you can definitely find a pair that you will love. Oh, and they can make them in your prescription as well.

Normally, you can always get 15% off BLUblox with the coupon code IFPODCAST, but for a very limited time, you can get up to 30% off for their special end of financial year sale. Okay, here are the codes. Use the code, SAVE20. That's S-A-V-E 20, to save 20% on orders up to $159. Use the code, SAVE25, to save 25% on orders over $160. Use the code, SAVE30, to save 30% on orders over $315. That's all at blublox.com. B-L-U-B-L-O-X dotcom. If you're listening to this after the sale, you can still use our code, IFPODCAST, to save 15%.

Also, definitely consider getting the Remedy Sleep Mask. I also use that every single night of my life. It's amazing. It has zero eye pressure, but complete blackout. Basically, you don't feel it on your eyes, but you can completely open your eyes and it still blocks 100% of light. It's so comfortable, so incredible. I can't imagine sleeping without it. And guess what? For every pair of BLUblox classes you buy, BLUblox will also donate a pair of reading glasses to someone in need. How incredible is that? We'll put all this information in the show notes.

One more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare and makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations.

Did you know that conventional lipstick, for example, often test high for led, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years and your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter, and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. On top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels, and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter.

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. Again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right now enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 218 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am doing great. How are you?

Melanie Avalon: Good. Have you seen those hydroponic plant growing systems?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Did I tell you that I got one?

Gin Stephens: I feel like we had this discussion.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes, because I told you about the water. I have an update.

Gin Stephens: Okay, good.

Melanie Avalon: Have you had one before? Have you--?

Gin Stephens: No, not a hydroponic, no.

Melanie Avalon: I'm just in awe, once the plants start growing, how fast they start growing. I swear, I feel if I just like stared at it, I could probably--

Gin Stephens: Do you feel that-- where it speeds up?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I just realized the way I said no, not hydroponic, made it sound like I'd grown lots of things, but I've really grown nothing. “No, I haven't done hydroponic, but I've done all the--” No, zero. One time, I got a basil plant. I mean that's like-- [laughs] What are you growing?

Melanie Avalon: I got the AeroGarden really large farm system.

Gin Stephens: You're farming. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: It's tall. I'm so bad at gauging height. It's only a foot shorter than me. It's like five feet. So, it's growing three varieties of cucumbers, cilantro, and spinach. Then, I got a smaller unit. The company actually sent it to me, and I'm growing cilantro and microgreens. It's stressing me out a little bit because there's so many plants, and now they're just going crazy, and I feel like I need to--

Gin Stephens: Like prune it down.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Well, I mean, don't think of it as stressful. They're plants. You're going to eat them.

Melanie Avalon: I'm starting to feel plants are very much alive. I mean, I know they're alive.

Gin Stephens: Well, they are alive. They're food though.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, but I feel they have a consciousness or something, just watching them grow and they grow their way into my-- because it's against the window. So, they've started like growing their way up the blinders. They just seem very intelligent. [laughs] I don't know.

Gin Stephens: Never get a cow, don't get a chicken. [laughs] We’ve got to eat something. You could be a breatharian.

Melanie Avalon: I know. The little cilantro plant, it's getting crowded by the cucumber. It finds its way through--

Gin Stephens: Plants are amazing. I always say cil-aantro, by the way. Oh, you say cilantro and I say cil-aantro, I don't know I could be wrong. I'm just wondering if I've been saying it wrong for my whole life. It's possible.

Melanie Avalon: It probably can go both ways.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, there are a lot of words like that. You grow it inside, so now I'm really interested in that.

Melanie Avalon: It's so cool. I think what I'm going to do, I need to commit to only two or three of the cucumber plants and next to the rest, and then I think I need to grow the cilantro just in the smaller unit.

Gin Stephens: Is it pretty?

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes. I'll send you a picture.

Gin Stephens: Okay, because there's an area of our den where we sit and watch TV or hang out where Chad wants to get a plant over in the corner, and I'm like, “This might be really fun.” If it would be pretty. He's like, “What about this plant?” I'm like, “No, I don’t want that plant,” but I'd be like, “What about this?” Cutting garden, that might be really fun.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'll send you a picture. If you get the one I have, I think it's called the Farm XL. It's so cool. It has this light that raises, so you can raise it as they grow, and it's very much monitored. It tells you when to change the food, when to add the water.

Gin Stephens: But as long as it's pretty because we're looking at it, we want something decorative over there.

Melanie Avalon: I mean, it looks cool.

Gin Stephens: Okay, I'm going to have to look and see.

Melanie Avalon: I'll send you a picture.

Gin Stephens: Okay. All right. It does sound fun. I just looked on the internet, it looks cool. Here it is on a little plant stand.

Melanie Avalon: Are you looking at the little one or the big one?

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't know. I'm just went their main website.

Melanie Avalon: AeroGarden?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I hadn't really looked at. Or, the farm, Bounty Family. Oh, they have all sorts of things, but is it on a stand?

Melanie Avalon: The smaller ones, you'd have to put on something. If you look up Farm XL, that one is freestanding. That's what I have.

Gin Stephens: It's not the same as the farm family. Oh, there's like a bunch of them Farm 12XL.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. If you go to gardens, and then view all and then--

Gin Stephens: Well, I'll take some time to look and see.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I actually don't see the one that I have.

Gin Stephens: That you have? Okay.

Melanie Avalon: It's like, if you see the Farm 24XL, it's half of that. It's like if that was half.

Gin Stephens: That's a lot of farming. [laughs] I don't think we have room for 24XL. That's hilarious. Okay, well, there's a Farm 12, that might be what you have.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, it's a Farm 12.

Gin Stephens: You have the Farm 12. Yeah. Okay.

Melanie Avalon: You know the studies they do, where they talk nicely to the plants and the plants that they talk nicely to grow better?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: I completely feel like that's the thing. I just feel like I--

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah, I do too.

Melanie Avalon: I just go over to these little plants and I talked to them. It's wonderful. Then, I have to kill some of them.

Gin Stephens: Well, you're going to eat them, get them nice energy, and they'll give you nice energy.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, that's my story. What's new with you?

Gin Stephens: Well, listeners don't know, but we just recorded yesterday. [laughs] And two days before, we had some things going on, so we had to jam them all together. So, not a lot is new. I was just outside right before recording with Chad, we're adding on to the back of our garage. We're adding like a garden shed for him, so it flows into the past conversation. He was asking me how to configure it. I'm like, “I don't know, what are you going to do in here?” And he's like, “I don't know.” [laughs] Like, “Well, I would like to know what you're doing before I could tell you how to configure it.” One little section of it is like a little potting shed kind of a thing. So, he's debating what kind of sink to put in, who's going to put in a utility sink, and then some cabinets, so he's going to do some potting. He's got some tomatoes growing right now, some planters that are outside because our whole backyard’s torn up. It looks like the moon, like I said. It's just raw dirt back there, and junk, but it's going to be nice. We've got one little tomato that's almost red.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I love plants, as you know.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Well, Chad's my gardener, but I could probably talk him into growing things outside more easily than inside. Now, I'm trying to get him to grow me beans, because I’ve just got to book about heirloom beans, and like how to grow them, how to cook them.

Melanie Avalon: Everything that I'm growing in this is organic heirloom varieties.

Gin Stephens: Awesome. Yeah, I think that's the best. I mean, honestly when I did my research for Clean(ish), I never really thought about how these modern varietals of plants that have been bred to grow quicker and have greater yield. The modern-day versions, like, let's say, a modern tomato, not the heirloom variety, but the modern one that grows quickly and is huge, their nutrients are diluted, they're not as nutritious, and I never thought of that. I'm like, “Well, that makes a lot of sense though.”

Melanie Avalon: The heirloom varieties, they don't have the genetic adaptations to be diluted.

Gin Stephens: Right. It's important. We eat food for nutrients, and you don't even think about-- you could be trying really hard to eat nutritious foods, not realizing that your foods have so many fewer nutrients than they should. It's like that just makes you so mad when you start thinking about it.

Melanie Avalon: I know. It's really upsetting.

Gin Stephens: It is upsetting. Yeah. My big belief is that our body, we don't count calories, our bodies--

Melanie Avalon: Count nutrients in a way.

Gin Stephens: Count nutrients. So, that would lead to you not being satisfied. It’d affect satiety because your body's like, “That wasn't enough nutrients.” When you start really digging in obesity epidemic has so many-- as Dr. Fung said, it's multifactorial, but here's one little more piece of the puzzle.

Melanie Avalon: Yep, so true.

Gin Stephens: Yep, heirloom beans. There's your answer. Well, for me.

Melanie Avalon: Beans are underground, right?

Gin Stephens: No, they're not. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Wow, that's so much I know. Why do I think that they're underground?

Gin Stephens: Are you thinking of peanuts?

Melanie Avalon: Maybe.

Gin Stephens: I think peanuts are underground. But beans grow on vines. At least the ones I'm thinking of, my grandparents grew green beans. They're all viney, they grow in pods. Have you ever like shucked the butter beans or something? No.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, like green beans. I want to grow-- [gasps] Oh, I want to grow green beans.

Gin Stephens: There you go.

Melanie Avalon: I have one last question about the plants because I'm staring at them right now. This is my question. This is what makes me feel they're just very sentient. Okay, the cucumber plant, like I said, it's up against the blinders. It's so adorable. So, it has the leaves, and then these little tendrils, these really tiny little tendrils are created, and they come out from it and grab on to the blinders. How did it know to put out those little tendrils and wrap them around the blinders? My mind is blown.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Really, the world is amazing when you start thinking about it.

Melanie Avalon: It knew there were blinders, and it created little tendril things.

Gin Stephens: It's always like sensing. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Last night, I was unwrapping its little tendrils from the blinders, and I was like, “I'm sorry.”

Gin Stephens: Well, it wanted one of the blinds. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Okay, getting emotional.

Gin Stephens: Well, don’t. Keep telling it to make some delicious cucumbers for you to eat.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, once I figure out how to pollinate it.

Gin Stephens: I don't know that you have to pollinate it.

Melanie Avalon: I do have to.

Gin Stephens: You do?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I got this little thing and it's called Bee the Pollinator.

Gin Stephens: It tells you that you have to pollinate it?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. It looks like a toothbrush with a Bee on it.

Gin Stephens: It's because it's inside?

Melanie Avalon: There's no bees.

Gin Stephens: Right, it's because it's inside. That's why you have to do it. All right. We're just going to grow outside. I just decided I'm not like--

Melanie Avalon: No. Okay, wait, pause. It's only some. Only cucumbers. They don't-- [laughs] They don't all require that, I promise. The spinach doesn't. I don't know if beans do. Just some of the cucumbers.

Gin Stephens: If it's going to be something that grows out of a flower.

Melanie Avalon: I think strawberries.

Gin Stephens: Well, you think about it. If it's going to flower, that's when you would need to, like spinach, you're not eating the flower. You don't need it to flower and then form the, whatever it is, the fruit, the cucumber being the fruit, technically.

Melanie Avalon: When I was first looking it up, it was like, “Yes, find the male plant, and touch it with the thing and then find the female plant.” I was like, “This is so, so complicated.” [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Way too personal, for the plant.

Melanie Avalon: But then, other people said you just basically get this little thing and touch all the plants and it'll take care of itself, but I was like, “Oh my goodness.” [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's fun. Well, I wouldn't be growing cucumbers anyway, because I do not like cucumbers.

Melanie Avalon: I'm growing lemon cucumbers.

Gin Stephens: Still wouldn't like them.

Melanie Avalon: Their heirloom, they look like squash but they're cucumbers.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to keep that one after I--

Gin Stephens: I love zucchini and squash.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, right, because I don't like zucchini. One of the few foods I don't like.

Gin Stephens: I love zucchini, oh, my goodness. Yeah. Love it.

Melanie Avalon: Do you like grapefruit?

Gin Stephens: No. Well, yes. Yes, I do like grapefruit. I thought you were saying something else at first. I do you like grapefruit. I didn't used to. I do now.

Melanie Avalon: Grapefruit and orange, I can't.

Gin Stephens: Oh, I love orange.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I can't.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I like citrus. All citrus. Really, I can't think of a citrus I don't like.

Melanie Avalon: Lemon is nice.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I'll drink a mocktail very frequently while we're all cut up a lime and throw it in, I'll get some fizzy water. I like LaCroix unflavored because it's a fizzy in the can and I'll put it over ice and throw in a lemon wedge, maybe a splash of cranberry juice, but then I'll just eat the lime and it's delicious. I know, it doesn't even bother me.

Melanie Avalon: I will make a plug. They're not a sponsor on today's show, but if listeners get the citrus salt LMNT Electrolytes, apparently those are really good for margaritas, if you want to make like a keto margarita.

Gin Stephens: Yep. You've shared that before. That sounds like a good tip if you don't want to have a-- sour mix is tricky. When I make margaritas, I just make them with actual limes. It's a lot, juicing all those limes, but I start with fresh limes. And it's amazing, and then you become a snob and you go to all the restaurants and you're like, “Yeah, these margaritas are terrible.” We have one Mexican restaurant that's new here in Augusta. It's like a little hipster Mexican restaurant, kind of thing. But it's really good quality. I love it. It's not that far from our house and they make amazing margaritas. I think it might be the only place in town that I know of that has good margaritas. Sorry, Augusta.

Melanie Avalon: When I was a bartender, we made them fresh.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's the only way that I like them because I hate packaged sour mix. It is just disgusting. It doesn't taste good, which makes me sad because I used to like it when I would go, and any place, I could get a margarita anywhere and I loved it. But now [sighs] I've gotten to the point that I don't like the way they taste.

Melanie Avalon: Well, so listeners you can grow your own limes and make your own, get LMNT.

Gin Stephens: Can you grow your own limes?

Melanie Avalon: Actually, probably not, because it's a tree.

Gin Stephens: That’s right. [laughs] You can if you live in California.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, but not in your hydroponic thing. But I will put a link in the show notes. I think drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast. You can get that for free, the citrus salt.

Hi, friends. When you do what you love, like running, racing, enjoying the great outdoors, or if you're me, scrapbooking, podcasting and wine tasting, you want to do it for life. InsideTracker can help. InsideTracker was founded in 2009 by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics. In fact, David Sinclair partnered with them, who I've had on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast and has been one of my favorite guests of all time. Using a patented algorithm, InsideTracker analyzes your body's data to provide you with a clear picture of what's going on inside you. Then, they offer science backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes. Then, InsideTracker tracks your progress every day, every step of the way toward reaching your performance goals and living a longer, healthier life. I'm obsessed with what I have learned from InsideTracker. You test your blood by ideal rather than conventional ranges, you can keep all of your blood work in one place, and you can see trends and graphs over time. It has been so eye opening for me. You can also find out your true biological inner age. Basically, how old is your body actually, not chronologically. And InsideTracker makes recommendations to help you lower that. It is so incredible, and I am so honored to partner with them. I even partnered with InsideTracker and Dave Asprey’s recent virtual biohacking conference.

For a limited time, you can get 30% off the entire InsideTracker store. Guys, we have the best discount for InsideTracker. They've told me this, I am so grateful for it. Just go to insidetracker.com/melanie. That's insidetracker.com/melanie and the coupon code, MELANIE30, will get you 30% off. Again, insidetracker.com/melanie with the coupon code, MELANIE30, for 30% off, and we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes. We have a question from Emily and the subject is “Too few calories, and how to assess food issues.” She says, “Hi, first of all, I love you both. I was overweight or obese almost my entire life. After my second baby, I finally decided enough was enough. I discovered intermittent fasting about two months ago and it has changed my life. I've been clean fasting 16 to 22 hours a day. I've lost 17 pounds so far, about 30 to go to my goal weight, and I feel amazing. I know we aren't supposed to calorie restrict, and I'm not. However, I do log what I'm eating into an app, mostly because I like looking for patterns of when I felt good and when I did not. I have noticed that most days, I'm only taking in around 1000 to 1100 calories. But I feel totally full and satisfied. Is this a problem? I feel great and I'm seeing results, but I'm worried about destroying my metabolism.

Also, I wanted to get your opinion on how to best assess what foods are giving you a negative reaction. I keep track of what I've eaten, but when I get bloated or headachy, I can never figure out, is it what I ate an hour ago? Is it what I ate this afternoon, yesterday? Thanks, ladies.” Those are all great questions.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, thank you, Emily. Those are, like Gin said, really good questions. For the first question about undereating and worrying that she's not eating enough calories. I feel there are a lot of factors involved here and it ties into what we were just talking about with nutrient density and that our body needs nutrients and fuel, not necessarily calories, per se, although that is pretty well what she's counting. Again, we're not doctors, but I do believe our bodies are pretty intuitive and your hunger will likely upregulate if you're needing more, but I can't make that as a doctor statement. I do feel like our bodies are pretty intuitive. She doesn't talk about what she's eating. A lot of people, given their protein requirements, which a lot of people are of the opinion like Ted Naiman and Marty Kendall, that there's the protein leverage hypothesis that we basically eat to fulfill our protein needs. If Emily is getting her adequate protein, that might be leading to her satiety. Yeah, basically, I think it goes into what she's eating and that her body will probably be intuitive. What are your thoughts, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I don't think that you're going to “destroy” your metabolism. Our metabolisms do bounce back, that's one thing. With the Biggest Loser studies, the ones that were most successful ended up with the lowest metabolic rate, but they continued to restrict. The ones who kept the weight off, their metabolism stayed low, but there were also over-restricting long term. The ones who ate more, their metabolisms were not as damaged, if that makes sense. Of course, they gained the weight back. Of course, I think intermittent fasting is our secret weapon, not so secret, for keeping your metabolism, less likely to close up shop, keep it humming along. You can always throw in up days, down days if you're concerned.

Let's say, right now you're doing fine, let's say you plateaued, and you're like, “Okay, I really need to do something to boost my metabolism temporarily.” You could have down days and up days, and get things moving again. I do think that our bodies let us know if we aren't eating enough. If we legit are not eating enough, my body has always let me know. I'll have a day where I'm hungrier. So often, I think people fight it, because we're so used to fighting whatever diet we're doing, because we're told to be strong and push through. Sometimes, you just need to have a day where you eat more, because your body's telling you to eat more. Instead of feeling like, “Oh, gosh, I'm so weak, I gave in,” embrace the fact that your body told you, you needed to eat some more, and then you listened and you did. It's just so hard to get out of that mentality of, “Oh, I failed because I had more to eat today, I had two meals, I had a long window,” when really, that might be just what your body was asking for.

Like Melanie said already, if you're eating sufficient nutrients, you're well nourished, it's going to be, I think, less likely to make your body think that you're having starvation, because you're well nourished. I do remember-- I don't count calories, Melanie doesn't count calories, we don't suggest counting calories, or promote counting calories, but I'm going to talk about calories here. When I was writing Feast Without Fear back in 2017, I got into some kind of a document, I can't remember what it was called. It was some kind of report that compared what people ate in different countries. I have this linkable-- if you go to book links for-- if you go to feastwithoutfear.com, there's a book link feastwithoutfear.com. Somewhere in there, I can't recall off the top of my head, but it was this document that compared what people ate in different countries, and it broke it down by age groups and calories. It was when I was looking up the Blue Zones, like Okinawa, Japan, for example, and some of these other Blue Zones comparing what the adult people ate in those countries, the older ones really took in fewer calories than we think of, as how many calories you “should take in.” They were not eating a lot of calories, it was a surprisingly low number, especially for the older women. We're so used to hearing that women should have this many calories a day, whatever it is, 2000, I don't even know, to maintain your weight, when really in some other parts of the world known for longevity, they're eating a lot fewer calories. When you compared it to what the Americans were eating, it was substantially less in these other parts of the world that were known for longevity.

So, I would only worry about your caloric intake if you're plateaued, and you're trying to lose more weight, and you feel your body may have reached homeostasis where you're stuck because your metabolism has adjusted to your intake. For example, right now, whatever my metabolic rate is, however many calories I eat average, I don't know what that is, but I've reached homeostasis to the point that my appetite signals for the amount that I take in, match what my body is doing, and so I'm maintaining. Whether I'm eating 1000 calories a day or 2500 calories a day, it doesn't matter. Whatever my metabolism is doing doesn't matter either, because I'm maintaining where I would like to be, if that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Actually, to that same point, you, Gin and I are at maintenance, Emily said she still has 30 pounds to go. It's so interesting to think about it in the lens of-- if you do have the weight to lose, and so during the fast, you're tapping into that those fat stores, in a way, it's like you're getting thousands of potential calories during the day. What's so interesting comparing it-- so let's say that Emily is eating 1000 calories, which she says she is, in a fasted state compared to if she spread it out throughout the day. If she spread it out throughout the day, her body would most likely be waiting for the next meal, it wouldn't be tapping into the fat stores. In that situation, especially since she has weight to lose, which would indicate that she probably has a higher resting energy expenditure anyway, that could lead to a situation where her body is literally not getting enough fuel, because it's just waiting for the fuel to be eaten, and because she's not eating enough, it's not getting that. So, that could be a problem. Compared to when you eat all of those 1000 calories in one meal, or in a fasted window, then because she goes into the fasted state by not eating, the body taps into the body fat stores, and now it's like she's supplementing what she's eating at night with her body fat during the day.

Gin Stephens: That's an excellent point. So, you can add those together, and that's how much fuel your body has available so it does not feel like you're restricting. I talk about this and Fast. Feast. Repeat., but I didn't just talk about it a second ago, I'm glad you brought it up, Melanie. You're right, you're not restricted, you're well filled during the fast, and so the amount that you take in is not as big of a deal. That being said, can your body adjust to a very small window, even if you're well filled during the fast, if you're over time, can your body, like say, “Okay, here's where we're going to stay?” Yes, that's the plateau that I was talking about. As long as you're still losing weight and feeling good, those are the two things, you're losing weight, you're feeling good, I wouldn't worry. If you realize you've plateaued for several weeks and also you start feeling like you need to binge, that's the signal, you need to eat a little more just for a while. Good point. I'm glad you brought that up.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Likewise, I'm glad you brought up the longevity stuff. Her second question about figuring out which foods she’s reacting to. This is a really great question and something that can be a little bit perplexing in trying to figure out what you're reacting to, is that you could probably be reacting to something you ate say usually within a three-day window. So, if you have a symptom now because she says like getting bloated or a headache. She says, was it an hour ago? Was it that afternoon? Was it yesterday? It actually can be hard to know. What's even more frustrating from a psychological perspective with all this is that our brains natural tendency is when we experience something that we either want to experience again or we don't want to experience again, our brain looks for things in the immediate environment that led to that and then it assumes that was the cause. They've done a lot of scientific experiments on this. Basically, if most people if they get a symptom, a headache, or bloated or whatever it may be, our brain’s natural tendency is to think, “Oh, it's what I just ate.” But that actually might not be the case.

As far as how to figure out what actually is creating the problems, this is where I think that a temporary elimination diet can really, really come in handy because I honestly really don't know of any other way to find out. You can do food sensitivity tests, but those are debated. In my opinion, really, the only way to know if a food is bothering you is to get down to a baseline of foods, where you're not reacting to things and then you bring back things one by one to see what you're reacting to. There are a lot of different approaches to that because there are a lot of different ideas of what is the best “elimination diet,” but a lot of people do autoimmune paleo, for example. A lot of people will do a low FODMAP approach, especially if you have digestive issues that might be a good route to go. You can get my app Food Sense Guide, I literally made it for this. This is why I made this app. It's at melanieavalon.com/foodsenseguide and it actually has over 300 foods, so it's probably going to have almost everything you eat. If there's a food not in there, let me know so I can update it.

Then, it has 11 compounds that people react to. Things like I just mentioned FODMAPs, it has gluten has, has sulfites, salicylates, lectins, whether or not something is a nightshade, 11 different things. Then, it also has AIP, autoimmune paleo, that I just mentioned. If people do elimination diets, it's not forever, so it's not the intention. It's literally just to figure out what foods do and don't work for your body.

I have had some good episodes on the topic, melanieavalon.com/inflammation that was with Dr. Will Cole for his book The Inflammation Spectrum, he has a really good approach. I had an episode with Dr. Michael Ruscio. I love his-- he has a really good approach to this. I've probably had other episodes as well. Yeah, I would recommend some sort of elimination diet, at the very least get my app, and you can look at the foods you're eating, and you can see if you see trends, because it'll show that the foods are low, medium, or high in different compounds. You can make a list and put in all that you're eating, and then you might be able to get some clarity and see if there's like a common trend of things that you're reacting to. Histamine could be another thing. I did an episode on that at melanieavalon.com/histamine with Dr. Becky Campbell. Yeah, so those are my thoughts. Gin?

Gin Stephens: You're the best for those types of answers. [laughs] What Melanie just said, yeah. I think you'll figure it out over time. I think you’ve got a lot of tools, with what Melanie just shared.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: All right. So, our next question comes from Bubble. Bubble writes, “Hi, Gin. I'm worried, hence, I'm messaging you. It's been 1.5 years of IF and I've continued to lose weight. First was 16:8 seven days a week, then for the longest time, 20:4 seven days a week, followed by 20:4 six days a week. I've stopped losing weight since December 2020. It's May now. I haven't gained in pounds, but I do feel some inches here and there. Is it because I don't fast seven days a week and only six days? What changes can I make to my fasting style, so I can lose weight? Please don't suggest ADF because that just won't work for me. I've tried it several times, but I can't do it. Thanks and regards.”

Gin Stephens: Okay. Thank you for the question. I am going to plead with everybody that we need more information for troubleshooting, really. I have so many questions I'd like to ask you, Bubble, before I could give you advice. For example, how much more weight do you want to lose? Are you at a weight that is healthy for your body right now? Because those are all such important things to know. For everybody, when you're writing in with troubleshooting questions, the more you can tell us, the better. That really will help us be able to pinpoint what might be going on, because right now, the only thing I can really hook into is, you've been doing intermittent fasting for one and a half years, and you were doing 16:8, and then 20:4 seven days a week, then you switch to 20:4 six days a week, and you stopped losing weight since December. The only advice I can give based on that is maybe go back to seven days a week instead of six days a week, because I know for me, if I took one day “off” a week. I wouldn't lose weight. I mean, I'm not losing weight now because I'm at maintenance. When I was hoping to lose weight, one day off a week, I would not have lost weight. That's why in Delay, Don't Deny, I have that chapter called Saturday is not a special occasion, because it happens every week. I tended to be tripped up by that until I realized, if my goal is weight loss, then I need to be a little more intentional about my eating.

Once you get to maintenance, there's a lot more flexibility, but you have to get there. It sounds like to me 20:4 six days a week is a great maintenance protocol for you. The reason I think that is because you're maintaining there. In order to lose weight, you're going to have to tweak something. Now, I can't tell you what to tweak other than going back to seven days a week, or you could tweak your food choices, but I don't know anything about what you're eating. So, I don't know. But there's something you can tweak. You just have to decide what are you willing to tweak? If you've got Fast. Feast. Repeat., there are a lot of tools in that toolbox. Go to the Plateau chapter. The Plateau chapter walks you through some of the things you can tweak. And going to ADF is not the right thing for every person, I understand that, and so if that is not a tool you want to employ, don't try it. It's okay. Try something else from the suggestions and see how that goes. But the biggest thing that I could say is, go back to what was working before.

Again, you might be at a weight that's healthy for your body, and maybe your body is telling you, “Here's where we're going to maintain.” But that's what I don't know. I don't know, if you're at a healthy weight range for your body or not. The answer is really different, maybe this is a healthy weight for you, maybe you still have a lot to lose and without knowing that it's really hard to know what advice to give, does that make sense, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. 100%.

Gin Stephens: All right. What do you have to say?

Melanie Avalon: Well, I knew you would have the answers for the fasting side of the equation with everything. My answer, and you already touched on this, was we don't know what Bubble is eating but my favorite thing to address with weight loss actually isn't the fasting, it's the food choices. I just think there's a lot you can do with food choices. If you haven't addressed food choices at all, there's a lot you can do. If you have, switching around macros can do a lot as well. So, if you're on a standard diet, going to a whole foods diet, I think, can be incredible. And then if you're on a low-carb, high-fat diet, maybe switching to a high carb, low fat, or if you're on a high carb, low fat, maybe switching to a high fat, low carb. If you don't want to change the fasting, I would look at the food choices. Then also, I already mentioned it before, but really focusing on protein, I think can really, really help a lot of people with satiety and leading to natural satiety with less calories, and I'm optimum nutrition.

Gin Stephens: All right, let's move on. We have something from Nydia. That's a beautiful name, Nydia, I hope I pronounced it correctly. The subject is “Running while fasting.” She says, “Hi, beautiful ladies. My name is Nydia. I started listening to your podcast not too long ago, I will say like two months ago and I love you guys. Thank you very much for all the good information you give us. I started to do fasting five months ago. I'm a baby in this, LOL, but I feel really good and have a lot of energy. Not to lie, I do you struggle sometimes, especially when that time of the month will arrive. I'm moving all day since I'm a housekeeper and I go to Zumba at night. I jog here and there, but recently I signed up for a full marathon in San Francisco. I know it's crazy, but it is something I have always wanted to do, so I've got the courage to do it. My question is, if it's a good idea to run that marathon while fasting? PS: Since I started doing fasting, I've lost 23 pounds in six months. Of course, I feel so great.”

Melanie Avalon: All right. This is a great question from Nydia, and I will start by saying I am not an expert in marathon running. Do you ever listen to-- Oh, wait, you don't listen to podcasts, what am I--? [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Which podcast are you talking about?

Melanie Avalon: Rich Roll.

Gin Stephens: I have found a podcast I love.

Melanie Avalon: You found what?

Gin Stephens: Yes, I found the podcast, and I can only listen while driving.

Melanie Avalon: Who?

Gin Stephens: It's an NPR podcast called How I Built That.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, what do they built?

Gin Stephens: I can't think of his name, but it's the same interview for all of them, obviously, but the host he interviews somebody every time who built a company. For example, Seventh Generation or Chicken Salad Chick or Jazzercise. Those are a few that I've listened to. You can see what I'm interested in. [laughs] Jazzercise and Chicken Salad-- I love Chicken Salad Chick, by the way. It's fascinating. It's what they went through building the company. When I'm driving to the beach, I listen to that podcast.

Melanie Avalon: Do you learn a lot about company building?

Gin Stephens: Yes. It's fascinating. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, I'm excited. I'm going to listen to that. So, Rich Roll, but I've talked about this before. It's funny. I have my nighttime podcasts and my daytime podcasts. There's only like two or three podcasts that I listened to at night, but I always listened to them at night and they immediately make me feel-- they put me into like the wind down mode. I just find ritual so calming.

Gin Stephens: I've never heard his voice.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, he's just-- I don't know, I just really like him. I think I like him a lot. He's very vegan, [laughs] and I was laughing because I'm obviously not vegan. He feels very welcoming. It makes me feel like I'm getting another perspective about things, because dietary camps on both sides, vegan and low carb communities and keto communities, I feel there can be a lot of negative energy or hostility towards the other side. I like listening. The point is, he was a marathon runner. What is his book called? I haven't actually read his book, Running Ultra. He did something crazy with running. So, he talks about marathons a lot, and it makes me realize how much I don't know about training for a marathon.

But I did look into this. I looked into a few things. I looked into training for a marathon on a low carb diet, and also training for a marathon while fasting. The biggest takeaway that I could find for everything is that you've got to train for it, which obviously, she probably knows, but it's not the sort of thing where you would be training and not attempting it prior in that metabolic state, and then show up and do it in that metabolic state. That might be obvious, but I feel it's definitely worth mentioning. If this is something you wanted to do, you would want to make sure that you can really do those long stretches fasted.

That said, I found some good articles online for advice and guidance surrounding all of this. It seems that a lot of people in the low carb world, especially I know, like low carb isn't necessarily synonymous with fasting, but they often do “go hand in hand,” and it is a fat burning state with the marathon, in my situation where you actually do use smart, concentrated carbs for the actual event. I think some people can do an entire-- low-carb diet, I think some people can do an entire marathon, maybe we can do it fasted, but I feel like a lot of people probably haven't done that. You definitely with 100% want to make sure that your body is ketogenic. This would not be something that you would want to be on the fence about. Again, I'll put a link in the show notes, but it actually does make me a little bit nervous. What are your thoughts, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I know we've talked about this before. It's just important. I think the key is to train in a way that will match what you're doing. You'll know through your training, if that's something that you're able to do or not, and just have a plan in place. You don't want to push through something that's going to be dangerous for your body.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I think it's an amazing goal, but I do think this is something that could actually become very dangerous.

Gin Stephens: Your body has to be really fat adapted, you have to really trust your body, listen to your body, understand your body. I do have a podcast episode, I don't remember the podcast number, but if you search, Intermittent Fasting Stories, Lisa Glick, her name is Lisa Glick, and if you just search those words, Intermittent Fasting Stories, Lisa Glick, it will give you the episode number. She is an ultramarathoner, and she's an intermittent faster. She talks about how it works for her.

Melanie Avalon: She does the ultramarathons fasted?

Gin Stephens: I think so, whatever she does, she does fasted. It's been a while since I talked to her, and you have to keep in mind, I never listened to my podcast after I record them. I just have a conversation with somebody and then boom, here they are. I can't remember exactly what she said because I've talked to so many people. Do you get like that after so many podcasts in the hopper where you're like, “What did we say?” “I don't even remember.”

Melanie Avalon: For the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast for probably the first half, I don't remember when I started outsourcing the postproduction, but for the first probably 50 episodes or so, I was editing them too, so I was saturated in them. Now, I record it and I don't really revisit it, but I do so much prep work for those shows, in general, they tend to stick with me pretty well.

Gin Stephens: You're remembering things. I'm just talking to people.

Melanie Avalon: Actively thinking so hard during it, so it kind of sears itself in my brain.

Gin Stephens: Anyway, Lisa will tell you what she did if you listen to her episode.

Melanie Avalon: It's kind of like the show, me and you, Gin, I don't really remember exactly.

Gin Stephens: It all blurs together, yours are specific topics. Yeah, I talk to an intermittent faster every time, so they tend to blend together. Like I know, I talked to somebody who said that, but I don't know who it was. [laughs] Yeah, hopefully that will help Nydia.

Melanie Avalon: If any listeners have run a marathon fasted, I would love, love, love to hear their emails. If you send an email and tell a story about it, I promise you, I will 95% probably read it on the show.

Gin Stephens: And it'll be soon. We'll pop it right at the top.

Melanie Avalon: We'll just pop it in. So, send us your stories if you have-- out of the 50,000 people listening, maybe somebody has. I feel like it was like not that helpful there, but it's just not my cup of tea.

Gin Stephens: We are not endurance athletes, neither of us.

Melanie Avalon: There's a really good Mark's Daily Apple post though, on this. I don't know if it was about fasting or low carb, but it touched on pretty much all of this. I think he talks about training for a low carb state, but then he actually recommends I think, like doing a concentrated carb up for it. It's using a homemade easily absorbed carb, I think it's like honey, or I don't know, he has a protocol.

Gin Stephens: All right.

Melanie Avalon: All right, so now we have a question from Brian, subject is “Quick Questions.” Brian says, “Hello.” He said, “Whoever is monitoring this address.”

Gin Stephens: It's us. We're monitoring it. We read all of them. Isn’t that funny? Like he doesn't know when the questions come in, we both see them. They come to both of us.

Melanie Avalon: And our assistant, Sharon.

Gin Stephens: And our assistant.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. He says, “I will make this as succinct as possible. I finished reading Fast. Feast. Repeat. recently and loved it, and found it fascinating and very beneficial and educational. I normally drink peppermint tea regardless of timeframe because I often get headaches and they don't care if or when I'm fasting, unfortunately. I don't drink coffee and only drink teas that I know will not stop or limit my fast period effectiveness. My query is this, I need to know if lavender or chamomile or another herbal variety, including peppermint would break the fast. Also, English breakfast, which is black tea leaves. These are usually green tea leaves, FYI. They have nothing else in them aside from the ingredients mentioned already. Would those be okay, or no, or even a more complicated answer? Thank you in advance for the reply. I hope to get some clarity on this. It may be messing up my fast attempts. Have a great day.”

Gin Stephens: Yeah, teas are so tricky. I'm like mad at teas [laughs] in general. I don't even look directly at the tea aisle anymore when I go to the grocery store, because so few of those things are actually tea. They're made from all these other things. If it's black tea, or green tea, or white tea, or any kind of tea, that's actually like tea, the tea leaf, like there's a plant, camellia, whatever, whatever. Since I can't remember.

Melanie Avalon: Sinensis, I think.

Gin Stephens: Something like that. That is the tea plant. Anything they do with that, like oolong, anything they do with that is fine.

Melanie Avalon: I think oolong’s different.

Gin Stephens: Oolong is that. It's like a fermented form of that, I think, isn't it? I think oolong, I will look it up. I think oolong is just a fermented version of that plant.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, you're right. Why did I think that it was different?

Gin Stephens: See, you have not answered one billion tea questions in a Facebook group of 500,000 members [laughs] as I have since 2015. Anyway, I'd wonder how many times I've answered a tea question, I would like to know. Anyhow, anything that's made from the tea plant, and you haven't added flavors to it, you haven't added any additives for sweetness or whitening yourself, any plain tea made from actual tea is fine for during the fast. But when you start getting into the herbal teas, which is what all the others really are, everything else other than that, they're all considered to be herbal teas, because they're not actual tea. They're just like an herbal tea made from steeping whatever it is, like the peppermint leaf or the lavender or the chamomile or whatever it is. Those are herbal teas. If you think back to the Clean Fast chapter of Fast. Feast. Repeat., the question to ask yourself is, does it have a bitter flavor profile? So, I'm not going to go through this list of teas and say yes for this one, no for this one, yes for this one, no for this one. You can do this yourself. Say when I drink this, does it have a bitter flavor profile? If the answer is yes, bitter is the main thing I get, then it's probably fine for during the fast. If, however, it has a food profile or a sweetness, then you would probably not want to include that. Food or sweet, no. Bitter, yes. It just has to do with what our bodies do with the different taste perceptions. The bitter flavor profile would not stimulate a cephalic phase insulin response, which is what we want to avoid. But if your body thinks food is coming in or sweetness is coming in, that's when your brain’s like, “Oh, we’ve got some glucose coming in. We got this food coming in. I'm going to need to release something and that's when you would have the cephalic phase insulin response. Avoid anything obviously, like Apple Cinnamon Delight, for example. Anything that's spices or fruit flavored or food, so there you go.

Melanie Avalon: I remember now I thought it was different because before I realized that all tea was the same plant, it was always like oolong is not green or black. So, in my head it's in a different category. That blew my mind when I learned that about tea. Everything that you said, Gin, was very thorough. I knew that you would have the perfect answer. I'll put a link in the show notes. By the time this comes out, it might be out but I interviewed-- oh, I already mentioned him once, Dr. Will Cole, I had him on the show twice, most recently for his book, Intuitive Fasting. We had a really nice conversation about tea. Not about this question, but if you just like to learn about tea a little bit, he's a tea afficionado for all the tea lovers out there, so that was at melanieavalon.com. It will be at melanieavalon.com/intuitivefasting, I don't know if it'll be out though when this comes out.

Hi, friends. Okay, we have thrilling news about Joovv. They have new devices and we have a discount. Yes, a discount, no longer a free gift, a discount. As you guys know, there are a few non-negotiables in my personal daily routine. I focus on what and when I eat every single day. And I also focus on my daily dose of healthy light through Joovv’s red light therapy devices. Guys, I use my Joovv all the time. Red light therapy is one of the most effective health modalities you can use in your home. I've personally seen so many health benefits, I find it incredible for regulating my circadian rhythm, helping my mood, boosting my thyroid, smoothing my skin, and I've also used it on multiple occasions for targeted pain relief. Anyone who's familiar with red light therapy, pretty much knows that Joovv is the leading brand. They pioneered this technology. And they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use. Since then, they've remained the most innovative, forward-thinking light therapy brands out there.

We're so excited because Joovv just launched their next generation of devices. And they've made huge upgrades to what was already a really incredible system. Their new devices are sleeker, they're up to 25% lighter, and they all have the same power that we've come to expect from them. They've also intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. They've also upgraded the setup for the new devices with quick easy mounting options, so your new Joovv can fit just about any space.

The new devices include some pretty cool new features, things like their Recovery Plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves an extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near-infrared light. And this is my personal favorite update. For those of us who like to use do devices to wind down at night, they now have an ambient mode that creates a calming lower intensity of light at night. Guys, I am so excited about this. Using this light at night is way healthier than bright blue light from all of our screens, and much more in line with your circadian rhythm. I was using my current Joovv devices at night anyway to light my whole apartment, so this new ambient mode is really going to be a game-changer for me. Of course, you still get the world-class customer service from your helpful, friendly Joovv team. So, if you're looking for a new Joovv device for your home, we have some very exciting news. You can go to joovv.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST. You'll get an exclusive discount on Joovv’s newest devices. Yes, discount, I said it. That's J-O-O-V-V dotcom, forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Exclusions apply. And this is for a limited time only. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: All right. We have time for one more question. This is from Casey, and the subject is, “Not sure what to do and where to start.” She says, “Hey y'all.” First of all, I love that, Casey, hey y'all back to you. She says, “First of all, I want to thank you both for all the research you do and share with all of us listeners. I'm only on Episode 64, but I'm making my way through them fairly quickly. I started IF in February of 2020 and started with Gin's Intermittent Fasting Stories podcast, which I absolutely love. So, I wanted to get through those before I started these. I thought several times about asking this on one of the Facebook groups, but I have several friends on there that don't know this particular thing about me, and it can be kind of embarrassing to me personally.

Here's my situation. As I said, I started my IF journey in February of 2020. I lost about nine pounds in my first two months. I took photos and measured and did the daily weighing. I came to a stall, which started in May of 2020, and I've never lost any more weight since then. I didn't change what I was eating, and I have thought many times to try to do that, just haven't taken the time to yet. I'm married with two children, and I work outside the home full time. Just went back to the office actually after having worked from home since mid-March of 2020. We live a busy lifestyle, eating out often and not cooking as much as we'd like. Here's the thing I wanted to ask you about though, my husband and I quit smoking on January 3rd, 2021. Probably one of the best decisions he and I have made ever. I'm so thankful we finally kicked the habit, but it has messed up my body badly. I'm just wondering if you have ever been asked how long it takes for someone's metabolism and our body to recover from years of smoking and will I ever be able to start losing weight again? I've gained back those 9 pounds, plus a few more. I'm quite frustrated with my body but I refuse to stop IF. I'm trying to trust the process. I know it's not IF that's “not working.” But I'm at a loss as to when I can start seeing changes for the better again, i.e., weight loss, body composition, clothes fitting better, etc. I do have one more question.

As I listened to your podcast, I write down all the things I need to try to be more healthy, but honestly I don't know where to start. Things like bone broth, serrapeptase, turmeric, etc. Can you guide me towards a small first step that will help me get started? Right now, I don't take any supplements, just never been big into all that, but I want to do what's best for my body while staying sane through the process, lol. Thanks, and I appreciate any advice you may have to offer. Casey.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, so great questions from Casey. First of all, congratulations to her and her husband for kicking the smoking habit. What's really interesting about smoking addiction is that nicotine, actually, I think it's only about three days that technically should take to get over nicotine addiction, but there's so much that goes into smoking addiction, that it can be really hard for so many people to quit. So, it's probably not so much the actual nicotine withdrawals as it is the environment and the habit of smoking. One of the benefits that people experience from nicotine/smoking is weight loss, that's very, very consistent in the clinical literature and also very, very consistent, that people tend to regain the weight after stopping. There's actually been studies on using nicotine patches to mitigate that. The ones that I read weren't too promising for that, and probably you don't want to bring nicotine back into your life at all.

The good news about everything is that it’s hormonal changes that happen with smoking and nicotine, that makes it easier to lose weight. There's a lot of theories behind what that is, like, could be just reduced appetite, so people eat less when they're smoking. I actually saw a study that said nicotine might upregulate brown fat in the body, which was really fascinating. The way I would approach this, and the mindset that I would encourage adopting is, I would not think about it in terms of, “Oh, my body is stuck in this metabolic state from the nicotine, and it's like a timeline, and that there's going to be a certain amount of time and then my body has “metabolically recovered.” In a way, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter what you did, because you're here right now. Wherever you are right now, there are things that you can do that will help your body metabolically, help you lose weight, help you burn fat, and it's going to be the same things, regardless of if you were smoking or weren't smoking before, that's not going to change. All the things we've talked about as far as adjusting your window and finding the windows that work for you, the food choices. I've already talked about it, but I'm just like, harping on it even more that if you really pay attention to your food choices, you can do a lot of magic, a lot of magic.

Gin Stephens: Can I pop in real quick?

Melanie Avalon: Uh-huh, sure, please.

Gin Stephens: She said she was eating out a lot, and that really for me, eating out, those foods are just-- When I go to the beach and eat out a lot because that's just we're out, not cooking at home, out of our routine, don't have my cooking tools that I need. I feel puffy when I'm done.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Especially with eating out, I think there's two main big things. The sodium if you're not eating that much sodium prior and then the vegetable oils and the polyunsaturated fats, I think are one of the most metabolically--

Gin Stephens: Very inflammatory.

Melanie Avalon: They're extremely inflammatory. They slow down our metabolism. Cleaning up your exposure to those seed oils, and a way you can remember them, there's like three C’s and three S's, there's probably more, but canola, corn, cottonseed, safflower, sunflowers, soy, sesame, that's more than six. Removing those can make a huge difference in your metabolism.

Gin Stephens: Everything at the restaurant is full of them, like everything. Most packaged foods are, even organic packaged foods. I talked about this and Clean(ish). I say in Clean(ish), Melanie, that Melanie was right.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, you say Melanie was right?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. I'm so excited. Wait, I'm in the book?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Oh my gosh. That’s so fun. Oh my gosh, [laughs] I can't wait. I want to go to Target or Barnes & Noble and pick it out and to have like, pull up a random bystander be, like, “That's me. This is my cohost. [laughs] This is my cohost, and that's me.” Oh my gosh.

Gin Stephens: It does matter. Ultra-processed foods, modern ultra-processed foods, I wish it wasn't true.

Melanie Avalon: Well, it's a little bit frustrating about it-- not be on a soapbox, but it's like if we're eating these foods, so people might be doing fasting, but eating all these foods, and then fasting is not quite working, they think it's because the fasting is not working. When really maybe if you weren't fasting, it would be way worse [laughs] what you'd be experiencing. Just for listeners though, you can still eat at restaurants and--

Gin Stephens: Oh, and I do.

 Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and avoid--

Gin Stephens: I even eat fried food at restaurants. Okay, remember, the name of my book is Clean(ish). [laughs] But I don't use those at home. That's just a difference.

Melanie Avalon: We talked about this on a recent episode. I just get very specific in what I want at the restaurant, and it always works out.

Gin Stephens: I want to eat the fries at a restaurant if they're going to be good fries. I mean, I know that they've got the bad oils and it's not what I do every day. I don't eat that every day, so if I'm at a restaurant, they've got these amazing-looking fries, and they're fried and the oil that I would not use at home, I'm going to have and I'm going to enjoy it. But if they're not like hot and delicious and amazing, I'm not going to waste my window on it, but that's the difference. I do put them in. I'm clean-ish, like I said, but I fully know they're not supporting my health when I eat them, and I'm not going to feel my best.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: How about the last part of her question? What does she need?

Melanie Avalon: Okay, do you have anything else to add about her metabolism being messed up from smoking?

Gin Stephens: I think you addressed that perfectly. The first thing I would do really, honestly, like I said, I would see what you can do to avoid the eating out. Even if it's something like using Green Chef for your meals for you and your husband, because those are quick and it's going to be higher quality food or Prep Dish, where you can have the recipes, anything, I know what it's like to be a busy mom with kids and you're running around and so you just grab takeout or go to a restaurant, I get that. So, having a plan, something like a meal delivery or Prep Dish, something like that, that helps you to have the things on hand, so you don't have to do that can really save you.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think that's a really great suggestion. We'll put a link in the show notes. I think we have a $90 off coupon for Green Chef.

Gin Stephens: Or Prep Dish might be the right solution for her family.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, true. Yeah, and we have a free trial for them.

Gin Stephens: Prep Dish really might be a great solution for her because she could prep on the weekend, and then she would have the meals for the week, just so easy. The meal delivery is great for if you have a small amount of people to feed, like Chad and I, it's perfect to have meals for two. I spend less than I would, but if you're a family, Prep Dish might be your best solution.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect. Then, for her second question as far as where to start with everything. I know it can be-- It's really overwhelming. And the things that she's asking about, she's looking at things like bone broth, serrapeptase, turmeric, etc. This is actually not quite answering the question, but it ties into what we just said. If your focus is “getting healthy,” the first thing I would focus on isn't what you're adding. It's what you're taking away. What we just talked about, like looking at the dietary choices and choosing the foods that are going to work for your body, that would be my hands down first step. You can get my book, What When Wine. I have an entire guide and approach to adopting a whole foods paleo type diet. It's not a one size fits all. There's yes, no and maybe, so you can really make it work for you. Like if you want dairy, you can have dairy, if you want certain types, it's all gluten free, but certain types of grains, like rice and stuff like that, that's in there as well. So, I would probably start with that.

Then, beyond that, like supercharging things and what supplements to get. Again, this is outsourcing it a little bit, but I would join my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, people talk about stuff all the time. I would ask in there if you have questions about certain things, or even ask this question about where would you start, but if it were me, like starting afresh, if I was just coming from just new to all of this, first thing I would do is, I would look at the diet, I would adopt a whole foods, paleo-type diet, and then from there, like supplement wise, I'll just say right now where I'm at right now, which is that, I still take serrapeptase every single day of my life, so that might be a fun thing to start with. I might in the future be developing my own mind, which would be really exciting. I can't make a one-size-fits-all suggestion. It's really just what do you want to play with him? What do you want to optimize? She doesn't take any supplements, so if she doesn't take any, I would start with serrapeptase. I would get your vitamin D levels checked and see if you need to supplement vitamin D. I would maybe consider an NMN or NR supplement.

Gin Stephens: Magnesium.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, and magnesium. Yes, definitely magnesium. That's probably where I would start.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, magnesium is the only supplement that I've taken regularly and will not ever stop taking, just because it's so important for our body and we're so depleted, our soil is depleted, and I sleep better when I have it. I no longer take serrapeptase. I took it for a purpose, and my purpose was the fibroids and so I took it, and now I don't have that problem anymore, so I stopped taking it. When it comes to something that you're taking, like Melanie said with the vitamin D, get your levels tested, see if you need it. I'm a big believer in making sure you need something, before you're taking it. In the supplements that worked for me are not going to be the same that work for you. I talk about this in Clean(ish). In fact, I learned a lot of stuff about supplements, and like what it says is in there might not be what's in there. They did a study of a certain kind of supplement and they found pharmaceuticals were in there, instead of the supplement it was supposed to be. It had actual drugs.

Melanie Avalon: That's really shocking.

Gin Stephens: It's scary. Yeah, but I talk about all this in Clean(ish). You just have to really be careful. I mean, I would rather take zero supplements than be taking these risky things that you think they're one thing and they're not the other. That's why it's so important to know the company like BiOptimizers, for example. We know those guys, and we know the guys who own it, we've talked to them on the podcast, we trust them, they made the supplements for themselves, also they're not going to be taking something and then selling something shady. They make the supplements they want, and so I trust them. I don't have a lot of trust with supplements, in general.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's really shocking.

Gin Stephens: I'm super untrustful of most supplements now, really. BiOptimizers, not distrusting of them. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That's a reason that we love partnering with brands, because we want to have done the vetting, and it's very, very scary and shocking.

Gin Stephens: I no longer buy supplements on Amazon at all. Not at all. I've talked about being careful with that. I really don't buy the supplements from Amazon anymore. That's not saying that everything on Amazon is dangerous, I'm not saying that at all. Amazon has thousands of sellers, and so they don't want somebody selling shady supplements on their site, and if they knew someone was, they would make them stop selling them. But they have a hard time with the quality control themselves.

Melanie Avalon: I'm glad you mentioned that about testing and seeing where your levels are. The reason where we mentioned vitamin D and magnesium, is I think out of all the nutrients that I would say the two that most people are most likely deficient in are magnesium and probably vitamin D.

Gin Stephens: For me, it was always iron, every time-- from the time I was a teenager, I was always deficient in iron, every time it was tested.

Melanie Avalon: Iron is something though, where you definitely want to test.

Gin Stephens: Get it tested. Yeah, don't just randomly take it.

Melanie Avalon: Iron is something where on the flip side, some people have too much iron.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, and that's not good either. Oh, by the way, I've started cooking in cast iron, speaking of iron. It does actually carry over into your food. I started doing cast iron years ago, I was like, “I'm going to do it,” and then I seasoned to the pans wrong and they were sticky, and then I'm like, “I quit. This is too hard.” I got rid of them. This time, I'm doing it much more carefully. I didn't go crazy with trying to season them. I'm actually doing it. I'm doing it. It's working. I made eggs in them, and they were fine.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. I love cast iron.

Gin Stephens: Anyway, cast iron. Yeah, you use cast iron?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: But, again, see, it was me with writing Clean(ish), I had been hanging on to some nonstick pans. Just because I'm like I want to be healthy, but I got to scramble eggs in a pan that they're not going to stick in and then, of course, stainless steel and scrambled eggs, not a good combination. I was like, “Okay, I don't care, I'm not going to use these pans anymore.” So, I got rid of my nonstick pans. I was like people claim cast iron can be nonstick over time as you season them and I was like, “I'm going to figure this out. I'm a smart girl.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: And it starts tasting better and better the more you do it with a cast iron and build up the seasoning on it.

Gin Stephens: Right, the seasoning.

Melanie Avalon: Throws me off that it's called seasoning but it's--

Gin Stephens: It's called seasoning. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: What do you use for the seasoning oil?

Gin Stephens: I'm using avocado oil and also olive oil.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, nice.

Gin Stephens: I'm using Crisco-- no, I'm kidding. [laughs] However, that's what I used last time. I did use Crisco and it made it so gummy and awful. Let's use a little analogy with our bodies here, a little comparison, it ruined-- well, I could have scrubbed the pans and scoured them I guess with the chain mail or something and gotten it all off, but it was so gross. I read somewhere to do that. This was, I mean, years ago, probably five years ago.

Melanie Avalon: Now I want to cook in my cast iron right now.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, well, I'm doing it. I'm so happy. I feel like a real like a real chef with my cast iron and my stainless steel.

Melanie Avalon: For my brother, for his birthday, I got him a cast iron pan, a really nice one and a book and the thing to take care of it, like the whole shebang, and he loves it because he recently graduated college and he's on his own and feels all adulty. Well, he is an adult, he has a really nice job, but in any case, he's really into the cooking and so he loves it. He loves cooking in it.

Gin Stephens: And they're so cheap, cast iron pans are so affordable and they last forever.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, of course, I spent hours and hours and hours trying to figure out, because they always usually come with a pre-seasoning. I went and I spent so many hours trying to figure out, because most of them are pre-seasoned with a soy or a vegetable oil. The amount of hours I spent trying to find an unseasoned one, or you can get it and you can strip the seasoning that it comes with and re-season it. A lot of people do that.

Gin Stephens: I did not do that. I'm clean-ish. [laughs] I just recoating it with some olive oil and trying to encapsulate it, in that. It'll be fine. It'll get way down in there. That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon: Can I make one last quick plug?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: I meant to talk about at the beginning, the episode on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast came out on Friday, it was with Jonathan Bailor. He just released a documentary called Better. The documentary is really awesome, as far as it's all about the role of basically nutrient density, and foods. So, that's what he's all about, like how important nutrient density is in satiety and in the obesity epidemic. He also wrote The Setpoint Diet. The episode we actually focus on body setpoint, which is basically, I mean, Casey is sort of asking about that with her, either gaining weight or has a higher setpoint since going off of smoking. People are loving that episode.

Gin Stephens: They are loving it. There's somebody was talking about it and the Delay, Don't Deny Social Network.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?

Gin Stephens: Yes. She said it was like the best episode she'd ever heard, and she loved it. So, I even read the transcript. Well, it's like, “Well, I got to read the transcript if it's that good.” Yeah, I read the transcript of it, since I can't listen to podcast because I don't have two hours, whatever. It was great. He seems great.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, he's really amazing.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I enjoyed reading it.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yay, that makes me so happy. It's really interesting to me to see, like, I think at this point, like, I know which episodes are going to be-- all the episodes, people respond to really well, but I never know which ones people are just going to freak out over and people are sort of freaking out over this one. They're just loving it. I'll put a link in the show notes to it. It's at melanieavalon.com/setpoint. If you're like Gin, and don't like to listen, you can read the transcript. [laughs] All right.

Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you'd like to submit your own questions to the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. Show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode218. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike, and you can follow us on Instagram. I am @melanieavalon, Gin is @ginstephens, and we are @ifpodcast as well on Instagram. All right. Well, anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens:  Nope, that's it.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories in the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

May 02

Episode 211: Vitamin D, Insulin & Fat Storage, Blood Fat Clearance, Better Sleep, IF Dreams, Bathroom Urgency, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 211 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Get Their Full Spectrum Magnesium Supplement To Fix Your Magnesium Status, Containing All 7 Versions Of Magnesium! Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Any Order!

 PREP DISH: Prep Dish is an awesome meal planning service which sends you weekly grocery and recipe lists, so you can do all your meal preparation at once, and be good to go for the week! It's perfect for the IF lifestyle! And better yet, the meals are all gluten free or Paleo, which is fantastic if you're already doing so, but also a wonderful way to "try out" gluten free or Paleo with delicious meals, and no feelings of restriction!! We can't recommend them enough! Get A Free 2 week trial At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

 JOOVV: Like intermittent fasting, red light therapy can benefit the body on so many levels! It literally works on the mitochondrial level to help your cells generate more energy! Red light can help you burn fat (including targeted fat burning and stubborn fat!), contour your body, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, produce collagen for epic skin, support muscle recovery, reduce joint pain and inflammation, combat fatigue, help you sleep better, improve mood, and so much more!! These devices are literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To Joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BIOPTIMIZERS:  Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Any Order!

3:45 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order!

Five Health & Wellness Trends In 2021 - Vitamin D

Get Up To $200 Off With The Code MelanieAvalon At MelanieAvalon.Com/Sunlighten

100th Anniversary of the Discovery of Insulin Perspective: Insulin and Adipose Tissue Fatty Acid Metabolism

22:50 - PREP DISH: Get a free 2 week trial At Prepdish.com/ifpodcast! You'll get weekly gluten-free and Paleo grocery and recipe lists!!

24:40 - Listener Feedback: Leah - Gin’s New Social Network

Delay, Don't Deny Social Network

IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life

Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon 

Lumen Lovers: Biohack Your Carb And Fat Burning (With Melanie Avalon)

29:20 - Listener Feedback: Alicia - IF And Dreams

34:55 - Listener Feedback: Britt - ADF Or OMAD? Or Both?

50:25 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

The Science Of Fat Cells: Losing Weight, Gaining Weight, Killing Fat Cells, Liposuction, Body Contouring, CoolSculpting®, ECM Remodeling, And More!

54:25 - Listener Feedback: Carolina - Toilet Urgency When Breaking Fast

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 211 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I am a huge proponent of getting our nutrition from food. When all else fails, I feel food is the way to go. That said, there are some nutrients that are super hard to get in today's environment. Did you know that 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium? Our soils are so depleted of magnesium today, that it's really, really hard to get enough of this crucial mineral. It's actually the number one mineral to fight stress, fatigue and sleep issues. I've been doing a lot of research on minerals, especially the calcium magnesium balance, and I walk away from so many conversations I have with experts just realizing more and more how important magnesium is. I personally love magnesium for its stress-reducing effects, as well as helping with my digestive issues. Yes, magnesium is the single most-studied mineral in existence. It actually powers over 600 critical reactions in our bodies.

Did you know that there are multiple types of magnesium? That's why I am so excited to share with you, the magnesium product that I discovered, is called Magnesium Breakthrough by BiOptimizers, and it combines all seven essential forms of magnesium into one convenient supplement. Most magnesium supplements actually fail, because they are synthetic and are not full spectrum. When you get all seven critical forms of magnesium, pretty much every function in your body gets upgraded, from your brain to your sleep, pain and inflammation, and less stress. With this one simple action, you can help reverse your magnesium deficiency and all of its forms. This is by far the most complete magnesium product ever created, and until or unless someone comes out with a better one, I highly recommend you give it a try. I can't tell you how many times I get feedback in my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, about people who have truly benefited so much from Magnesium Breakthrough.

We have a special offer just for our listeners, you can get 10% off Magnesium Breakthrough, if you go to magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast and enter the code, IFPODCAST10. That's M-A-G-B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H forward slash I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T with coupon code, IFPODCAST10. Once again, that's magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. By the way, that coupon code is good for 10% off any order. Definitely take a look around the BiOptimizers website for other supplements that might benefit your health. I'll put all this information in the show notes.

One more thing before we jump in. Are you concerned about aging? Well, thankfully, fasting is super incredible for its antiaging benefits. It activates genes in your body called sirtuins, which repair your body and help extend lifespan. Also, during the fast, your body can clean up a lot of harmful chemicals which may be taxing your detoxification systems. In fact, the reason people go gray is because their detox systems start producing a lot of hydrogen peroxide when dealing with toxins. Do you know where a lot of those chemicals come from? Your skincare and makeup. As it turns out, there are thousands of compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup that Europe has banned due to their toxic nature and the US has banned less than 10. When you put these on your skin every single day through your skincare makeup, you're adding to your body's burden and likely aging your skin faster.

Thankfully, you can easily clean up your skincare with a company called Beautycounter. They make incredible products that are extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can feel good about every single ingredient that you put on. They also have an amazing antiaging line called Countertime. Friends, this is a game-changer. It's full of active ingredients which nourish and support your skin, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, and support a beautiful glow. It also has a safe alternative to retinol. So you can get all of the anti-aging benefits of retinol without any of the toxic effects of retinol, because, yes, that stuff is toxic. Guys, put it away now.

You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. If you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. Also definitely get on my clean beauty email list that's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away so many free things on that list. So definitely check it out.

Lastly, if you anticipate making safe skincare a part of your future, just like Gin and I do? Definitely become a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for safe skincare. You get 10% back on all of your purchases, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift, that costs way more than the price of the membership. It's completely worth it. Friends, are you fast and clean inside and out? You can with Beautycounter. Again, that link is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is episode number 211 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, I'm still at the beach, so that lets you know I'm good. I'm going home tomorrow. I've just enjoyed this week so very much. I was going to go home on Saturday. It is now Sunday, and I'm not going home till Monday. Chad was so sad. I was like, “Oh,” because my sister decided to come down, and then I need just a little more time. I was like, “I'll be home Monday.” He's like, “What? You were coming home on Saturday,” but anyway.

Melanie Avalon: So relaxing.

Gin Stephens: It is. Yeah, I've been doing a lot of work. I had things I needed to do here at the beach property, but, well, I'm recording a podcast. I just recorded an ad for something else. I'm working. To me, this is relaxing. It's my kind of relaxing. [chuckles]

Melanie Avalon: Getting your vitamin D levels?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I am getting my vitamin D. That is true.

Melanie Avalon: Did I tell you I got my vitamin D tested, and I way overshot everything?

Gin Stephens: Like it's high?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't know that you can have too much vitamin D.

Melanie Avalon: I've been researching it. I don't think so. I don't want to make that blanket statement. Basically, there's only been as far as toxicity studies with vitamin D, there's been, I think, like two, and they were massive, major doses, like things that people would not be doing, but I am going to hold off. I feel like all my vitamin D levels-- because I was 30, which is low and now I'm like 130. Have you had yours tested?

Gin Stephens: Not for a long time. The last time I had mine tested, it was low, but I had not been supplementing, and it was like I'd not been in the sun, because it was wintery.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I guess I'll err on the side of having more rather than less. It's so important, the vitamin D.

Gin Stephens: Well, I think so for immunity, I just watched a video, it was a doctor talking about immunity, and he said seasonal cold and flu season-- not to mention coronavirus obviously, but seasonal cold and flu season is very much seasonal low vitamin D season. So, just keeping our vitamin D up is really one of the best things we can do for immunity of all types.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'll actually put a link in the show notes, and I talked about this before on the show, but I did a guest blog post on Sunlighten’s blog, and I did a section on vitamin D with a lot of the studies on COVID, and things like that. It's a very intense correlation.

Gin Stephens: Now I couldn't find, does Sunlighten sauna increase your vitamin D?

Melanie Avalon: No, sorry. I'm glad you said that to clarify.

Gin Stephens: I looked for that and couldn't find anything that indicated that. If it does, that's really exciting, [laughs] but I thought the answer was no, because I looked it up.

Melanie Avalon: They asked that about Sunlighten infrared, and they asked that about like red light Joovv devices. No, those do not create vitamin D.

Gin Stephens: I got excited for a minute, because I was like, “Well, I could be wrong. Maybe I missed it.”

Melanie Avalon: No, they have a health and wellness blog. We have a link for them for our show. I think so.

Gin Stephens: Well. If not, we need one. I love my Sunlighten sauna.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, so for listeners, you can go to ifpodcast.com/sunlighten, and the coupon code, IFPODCAST, gets you whatever their deal is for us. I think it's like $200 off on sauna and free shipping, which is insane.

Gin Stephens: I'm so glad I invested in that sauna. I love it.

Melanie Avalon: It's so great.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I got the three person that you can get in, and it is-- I wouldn't get in there with two other people. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I actually, because I have the solo unit, the one that you lay down in for the first time, because the place where I'm doing my almost daily cryotherapy, they have an infrared sauna. They actually have a Clearlight, which I like that brand too. I realized I hadn't sat in one of those.

Gin Stephens: Really?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. It's a different experience, being in the cabin unit.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. It's nice and it has a tablet in there, so I can watch TV while I'm using it. You may not want to do that, but I can. I have it on like Discovery+, because I'm watching Discovery+ right now. I'll go in there, and put on an episode or something, and set the timer, and just watch one episode, and then get on out. That's been my new morning routine, at home, not at the beach, because I don't have one at the beach, but get in the sauna, first thing in the morning, use it, then go get in the shower.

Melanie Avalon: It's so funny how we do it opposite. It's the last thing I do. I brought my phone though, into the Clearlight one, and then I was like, “Oh, I think I'm killing my phone.” [giggles] It got really hot. I felt like I was on the struggle bus when I got out the phone.

Gin Stephens: You really aren't supposed to heat those phones up, that's true. For me, now that I'm no longer on Facebook, I used to feel the stress of being in there because I'm like, “What's happening? I'm 45 minutes in the sauna, and I don't know what people were doing in the groups,” but now I'm just like, “I didn't take my phone in. I just got in.” It was so nice.

Melanie Avalon: For listeners, when you have the solo unit that I have, it's hard to describe, but it's like-- I don't want to say a coffin, but you lay down--

Gin Stephens: Like a big sleeping bag?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, that's a good example. A big one so it's not touching you and your head is actually out of it. I have a whole setup. I got this arm to hold a phone, so I can hold the phone over me, and I can read while I'm in it. It's relaxing and productive, and [sighs] one of my favorite things. Guess who I interviewed yesterday?

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: Marty Kendall.

Gin Stephens: Oh, I love Marty Kendall. Yay. Isn't he awesome?

Melanie Avalon: He's amazing, and he was going on and on. He'll probably listen to this. [laughs] It was really wonderful, because I really respect him, and I have for a long time, and he really respects us, and he has for a long time. It's this really cool, mutual respect thing. We were bonding over the fact that neither he nor I, we're not doctors or nutritionists. He's an engineer. I'm an actor, podcaster author, I don't even know.

Gin Stephens: You're a biohacker.

Melanie Avalon: A biohacker. [laughs] Is that my identity label? I guess so. Yes, but, oh, my goodness. Listeners, I can't wait till I air this episode, because it's going to be the resource episode that I refer listeners to now for the misconceptions surrounding keto and insulin and ketones and all of that. We talked for two hours, and we just dived in so deep, but I think it's going to be so valuable just to refer listeners to it.

Gin Stephens: He is brilliant.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, he's amazing.

Gin Stephens: What I love about him is that he started off thinking certain things, the conventional keto wisdom that we've all read hundred times, but then he realized over time, wait a minute, no, and then he did the work, and has done the actual trials, and he worked with people who are-- I don't mean trials like clinical trials, but they've tried it out, seen what happened, measured things.

Melanie Avalon: I'm trying to remember. I asked him at the end like, “What was the thing that he most changed his mind about?” I try to remember exactly, because we talked about all of this for two hours, so it's all running together.

Gin Stephens: Was it eating a lot of fat?

Melanie Avalon: It was either eating a lot of fat is the key, or it was like that keeping insulin low is the thing, something involving all of that. The idea of constant low insulin or--

Gin Stephens: Right, because we do want insulin to be low during the fast when we're fasting, but the body is so much more complicated.

Melanie Avalon: One of the things we talked about that I think most people do not realize, and even I'm prepping right now to interview Gary Taubes for the case for keto, and I was asking Marty. I've been asking every single authority figure or researcher in this area. What should I ask Gary? I was asking Marty, what would he ask Gary, and one of the things was the difference between basal and bolus insulin, because so many people think that we just release insulin with food and that it's on or off, but the majority of our insulin, I think 80% or something, well, it depends on what diet you're following, but the majority is the insulin, that's just always there.

Gin Stephens: He said that's interesting that he said 80%, I remember a Butter Bob blog post and video, he said, “50%.” I don’t know.

Melanie Avalon: It ranges--

Gin Stephens: Yeah, Butter Bob said 50% of your insulin that you've got circulating is just your natural--

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and it ranges majorly, since it's a percent, not a specific number. While the specific number of the insulin while fasting might not change, the amount of insulin released when eating might change, depending on the macronutrients. The percentage would change based on your macros, but even though that percentage changes, that doesn't necessarily mean it's changing the amount of insulin necessarily during the fast, while the percentage would change. That was complicated. Did listeners follow that? [giggles]

Gin Stephens: Well, I get that, because the math, as numbers change, percentages change. The range is different, the range changes.

Melanie Avalon: The number might just change for the food based on your macros, but not so much for the fast. One number would change, it could drastically change the percent, but not drastically changed the amount of insulin that you have outside of eating,

Gin Stephens: Those are all ballpark numbers anyway, 50%, 80%. Those are not going to be set in stone for any anyone person, because we're all so different.

Melanie Avalon: 100%. That's what he was saying about the case for keto was that, and I need to revisit it with this lens, but I think the majority of what he talks about is he really just looks at the insulin in response to food. Well, no, because he talks about the baseline insulin state of given individual and smelling foods, I don't know, there's so much. Listeners, I will put this in the study. I found-- I didn't find it. James Clement, who I've had on the show, sent it to me. This amazing new study came out, it's a review. It came out March 26th, so pretty recently, and it's called 100th Anniversary of the Discovery of Insulin Perspective: Insulin and Adipose Tissue Fatty Acid Metabolism. Oh, my goodness, it's blowing my mind. I'm going to have to read it 20 times. It dives really deep into the role of insulin and fat storage and fat release, and there's some really great quotes in there, basically saying with eating fat, specifically, insulin is not necessarily the primary or only factor involving fat storage, and all of these other things can create fat storage as well, and it lists examples of meal fat content, meal timing.

Gin Stephens: We knew that. We knew that already. Or, you and I knew that because- [laughs] but the misconception out there is I don't know why, why it makes no sense that your body can't store fat from fat you eat. I've seen people say that.

Melanie Avalon: It says for example, “Thus, factors other than insulin play more important roles to stimulate adipose tissue uptake,” so that means our bodies taking up fat and “storage of meal fatty acids, including meal fat content, [laughs] rate of meal fat appearance and circulation, repeated meal intake, lower body fat distribution, sex hormones, and other postprandial hormonal responses.”

Gin Stephens: Yep. Really, I think people get it mixed up. Insulin is antilipolytic, I love that word, meaning that, if you have really high levels of insulin, it's hard to be in a really good fat burning state with really high levels of insulin. But that doesn't mean that with low levels of insulin, you cannot store fat. That's the thing that people get mixed up, “Oh, high levels of insulin can't burn fat, low levels of insulin must mean I can't store fat.” No.

Melanie Avalon: 100%, and also with the storing fat, people think, “Oh, fat doesn't release insulin that much, so that must mean it can't be stored,” but the reason it doesn't release that much insulin is because it is easily stored. It's literally the opposite.

Gin Stephens: I was talking on a podcast for Intermittent Fasting Stories. I was interviewing Joel and Renee, a mother-son team of intermittent fasters, they both do intermittent fasting. It was a great episode. We were talking about, “What I would do if I needed to lose weight?” and I said, “I would eat less fat,” because I know how my body is. This was a long time ago before I even knew I cleared fat slowly, but I just knew based on my response results for keto, that my body didn't do well with a lot of fat. I said in that interview, “I would just put less butter on my bread, I would not use as much butter in my cooking, I would lower my fat.” Somebody actually wrote to me and said, “You're wrong. Fat is not the enemy. You cannot store fat,” and I’m like “What?” It just shows me that people are really confused.

Melanie Avalon: Yesterday on Instagram, I'm really trying to get-- I don't know how to say his last name Max Lugavere, the Genius Foods guy. [laughs] He wrote a book called Genius Foods, which is amazing, and then a new book called The Genius Life. I really want to bring him on the show, and people have been asking, and I've been emailing his assistant, but he's not responding. I've been trying to comment on his Instagram stuff to get his attention, but he posted something the other day that was all of these misconceptions about diet, I'm just looking at it right now. It's like eggs are unhealthy, meat is unhealthy, avoid salt, sugar is fine. And then, the next one is fat makes you fat, and then use refined cooking oils and all these different things. I commented and I said, the only one that I think about a lot is the fat makes you fat, because when you're storing fat, probably the majority of it was from fat, not carbs or protein. It's like did the carbs make you fat, or did carbs create an environment that allowed the fat to make you fat?

Gin Stephens: That's a good way of putting it. Had you eaten nothing but fat? For me, yes, you can still store fat. Even Dr. Fung has a blog post about this, where a lot of people didn't want to read it. You know how you put your hands in your ears, you go la, la, [laughs] when you don't want to hear something? He wrote a blog post a long time ago that said, “Who should have bulletproof coffee and fat bombs,” and he was like, “If you're trying to lose fat, not you.” People didn't really read that one or want to hear it.

Melanie Avalon: So many people do say that fat doesn't make you fat, but I feel in most of the cases, it is the fat that's becoming fat. The hormonal environment is determining whether or not it is, so or to what extent it is.

Gin Stephens: I'll never know what happens if you eat nothing but 100% fats, I don't want to do that. It makes me feel yucky. [laughs] It might be hard to overeat fat to that degree, because you're just like, “Gross, I'm done,” but I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. If you just ate-- Now, I'm thinking of tangents. If you just ate the C8 MCT oil, I don't think you would get fat. I don't think they would get stored.

Gin Stephens: I think it would make me really sick.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes, it would make [laughs] if that’s all you ate.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] Fine. Honestly, I don't know that I'd be able to eat enough of it to get it down, if I could choke it down enough to know if it would make me gain fat, because I wouldn't be able to consume it in that level. That's the thing. It wouldn't be enjoyable. Eww, ugh. [laughs] Anyway, it's interesting question.

Melanie Avalon: Also, oh, wait, one really last thing. I interviewed Dr. Gundry, recently, for his book. It's The Energy Paradox, because he's always got to use the word ‘paradox.’ [laughs] What he talks about a lot is mono diets in his book.

Gin Stephens: Does he like mono diets?

Melanie Avalon: I got so excited. For the longest time, I have thought if you do a mono diet, if something, so just protein or just carbs or just fat, which not so much the fat one, but it makes it very hard to gain weight in such a situation. He talks about the benefits of temporary mono diets basically because they allow the system to clear out, because there's not all these competing fuels. Though his book is about healing your mitochondria, it's a really good book. I learned so much about the mitochondria. It made me so happy, because I was like, “This is what I think about a lot.” He actually advocates intermittent fasting, opening your window with a monotype diet, and then having your second meal later be not a mono diet. I'll put a link in the show notes to his book, and any of the interviews I have done when this comes out, I don't think any of them will have aired though.

Hi, everybody. Today, I want to tell you about Prep Dish’s New Super Fast Menus. These are in addition to their three existing meal plans, Keto, Paleo and Gluten Free. Instead of scrambling and spending every single night prepping meals, do all of your prep at once in under one hour. You'll get delicious healthy meals on the table, even when you have limited time. If you've been a longtime listener, you know we're huge fans of Prep Dish. No more scrambling at each meal. Instead go into mealtime with a plan. Like Melanie would say, “You've got this.”

Prep Dish subscribers, now get four menus every week. Gluten Free, Paleo, Low-Carb Keto, and the new Superfast menus. Now, you can prep a whole week's meals in just an hour. You don't have to choose between meal prep and spending precious time with your family. With Prep Dish’s new Super Fast Menus, you get fast food, but it's homemade and healthy. If you've thought about trying Prep Dish but worried you wouldn't have time to do the prep, now is a great time to check out the free trial. The founder, Allison, is offering listeners a free two-week trial, and you can get that by going to prepdish.com/ifpodcast for this amazing deal. Again, that's prepdish.com/ifpodcast, and your first two weeks are absolutely free. So, try it out, see what you think about the new Super Fast Menus, and then send us an email. Let us know how you like it. Now, back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's get started.

Melanie Avalon: All right, so to start things off, we just have some very brief listener feedback supportive listener feedback from Leah. The subject is “Gin's New Social Network.” Leah says, “Gin,” and then she says in parentheses “and Melanie”. “I just wanted to tell you thank you so much for starting your own social platform. I got off Facebook this year, and I am so excited to reconnect on your platform. Also, I want to tell you both that I am so inspired by what you have created. I have plans to start a podcast, and create content in the future, and you're both such an inspiration to me. Thanks, Leah.”

Gin Stephens: Well, thank you, Leah. It's dddsocialnetwork.com, for Delay, Don't Deny, that's what the Ds are. dddsocialnetwork.com, and I'm really enjoying it. Like I mentioned before, my life is so much calmer now, because not having to manage half a million Facebook members, [laughs] and the posting. I'm going on in the morning to the DDD Social Network, and I'm going in the evening, a couple times a day, and also, I'm checking my emails, because I get instant emails, if someone posts in the 28-Day FAST Start group or the Ask Gin group. I'm responding to those throughout the day, but it's so much less stressful, so much less pressure. For new intermittent fasters, Melanie, I'm having so much fun coaching them in the 28-Day FAST Start group. People are like, “I'm on day 10,” and they're talking about it. It's exciting to see so many brand-new people joining. It's not just for brand-new people, we have lots of experienced fasters too, but I like to see we're starting fresh with new fasters. Also, just like Leah said, a lot of people who had left Facebook, but missed the support. The long-term fasters who were not on Facebook, but missed the community, so now they can have the community again. It really is exciting.

Melanie Avalon: I'll set up an email that I use just with that group, and then I can set it up to have alerts just for my little group in it, because I went in there the other day, and I was like, “Oh, there's all this stuff.” Like, if there's a group for me in there, I didn't even realize-- Oh, I did realize.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, but you hadn't really poked around.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: It's so different than Facebook. This is the thing that confuses some people, because they think it's going to be Facebook 2.0 or something, and it's not, because we're used to Facebook serving up the content to us-- I've been on Facebook, or I was on Facebook since 2008 or something, and Facebook decided what you would see, and it showed it to you, and served it up, and you became a consumer of the information Facebook wanted you to see. Versus here on the DDD Social Network--

Melanie Avalon: You're creating the content.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, and you decide where you want to go, and what you want to engage with. You want to see the Melanie Avalon Biohacker Podcast group, you go to it. Some people are like, “Wait, I just wanted to show it to my eyeballs.” We're like, “No, that's not how it works. You’ve got to go there.’”

Melanie Avalon: If I did that, if I create an email, could I get alerts just for--

Gin Stephens: Yeah, you change it to instant on the settings for each group. I don't have every group I'm in set to instant. Just the ones I never want to miss something in. I never want to miss anything in Ask Gin, and I never want to miss anything in the 28-Day FAST Start. But I don't really care what they're doing in the Melanie Avalon Biohacking group, so I do not get instant notifications there. [laughs] Then, they go to your email, and then it's very easy. You just go to your email and go click, and then it takes you right to it. From that click, it takes you right to that post, and then you can respond to it. It's so easy.

The notifications are different than Facebook notifications, but they're way-- and there's more of them, because it doesn't group them together. You know how in Facebook it groups them together? If 20 people commented, it would group them together as one notification, here you get 20 notifications, but it just takes you to the post when you click on it, but they're less buggy.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. Perfect. For listeners, we'll put a link to that in the show notes, and then I always just want to clarify, I still have my Facebook groups. Those are still the place for all of my content. Those are IF Biohackers, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare, and then I have a Lumen group, but you can just search Melanie Avalon in Facebook.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, and I also still have the big Delay, Don't Deny: Intermittent Fasting support group. I'm just not there. The moderators are running it, and you can ask questions on Ask a Moderator. Today, we got, “Does alcohol break a fast?” [laughs] The answer is yes. But the moderators are handling those questions. It's just the basic questions. If you need more support and you want me to walk you through the 28 Day Fast Start, you need to be at the DDD Social Network.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect.

Gin Stephens: All right, well, we have something from Alicia in Phoenix, and the subject is “IF and Dreams.” She says, “Hello, and happy day to you both. Intermittent fasting is fairly new to my lifestyle. Clean fasting for only six weeks after reading Gin's book, Fast. Feast. Repeat. Since finding your podcast, I've been learning tons. So, thank you so much for your continued efforts in bringing all the new and emerging research on the subject. My question is about dreams returning after little to no dreaming for years. Have you heard about this or think it's connected? If so, how? It was a rare occurrence for me to have a dream, now they're nightly. Since starting IF, I've been experiencing better sleep. I'm feeling more rested, and notice I wake less often at night. I'm super happy about this delightful side effect and would appreciate any thoughts you might have as to the mechanism of how this is happening. Maybe hormone balancing, deeper REM sleep?

Side note, here's a little info about myself and my eating window/pattern. I'm 5’5” and weigh 126 pounds. I started eating intuitively in 2019 after starting a daily yoga routine. Whole foods, lots of plants, cutting out what made my body unhappy, i.e., processed and sugar foods. I was inadvertently doing IF, but not clean, waiting to eat until after my noon yoga session. I lost the 30 pounds I needed to within a nine-month period, but a couple creeped back on when I started loosening my strict no-sweets policy.

Oh, a little tangent here. It made me laugh when I heard, Gin talk about her love for black bean brownies on a recent episode. They are my favs.” Yep, me too, Alicia. They're so good. People think they sound weird if they haven't ever had them. That's just a little side note there. [chuckles] 

Melanie Avalon: What's funny is, it doesn't even remotely strike me as weird. I'm like, “Oh yeah.”

Gin Stephens: It's so good. [laughs] All right, Alicia says, “Black bean variety are the best, and I've tried many, many types of alternative whole food brownies. Anyhoo, those couple pounds fell off after adopting the IF lifestyle. It was fairly easy at first, except the black coffee since my DNA report shows, I'm more likely to detect bitter taste like Gin, but I've grown to like it. Clean fasting ever since. My fasts last from 19 to 23 hours, although my average is 21, i.e., until I feel good, always some veggies, and usually something sweet to close my window. When I'm being good, it's dates, yum. When I'm splurging, it could be ice cream or a cannoli. Not often do I get those, probably for the best. Never feeling guilty. Thanks in advance. Lots of love to you ladies, Alicia. Oh, and I also have an Oura ring and love it.”

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I missed that. I didn't see that part.

Gin Stephens: Oh, by the way, I had ice cream yesterday, and it was amazing. [laughs] I'm at the beach with my sister, ice cream was on the menu. We did a lot of walking, we were shopping, and then we went and walked around a place called Brookgreen Gardens, which is just beautiful. It's spring and they have all these gardens, it's a place to see. Oh, I saw an owl. A baby owl.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, you saw baby owl?

Gin Stephens: There's a baby owl, and they had something called Live Oak Alley. The baby owl was up in the tree, and all these people were taking pictures of it, like professional photos, and it was just so fluffy and cute, and it was big, anyway.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, how big is a baby owl?

Gin Stephens: It's whatever, a big kind of owl is. It's a big species of owl. I can't remember the species that it is. Whatever they have down here in South Carolina that are really big, it's that. The baby is as big as the adult of some species of owls. It was so cute up in that tree. Anyway, tangent, sorry.

Melanie Avalon: It's appropriate, because owls and dreams at night.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's true. My point was I ate the ice cream, then I walked a lot. I didn't have restless legs, I didn't have any ill effects. I slept great. That was the good news.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I really, really love this question. I'm so happy for you. It sounds like she's really found the diet and lifestyle that works for her, which is awesome. She has her Oura ring, which is awesome. For your question, I actually asked Dr. Kirk Parsley, who is a sleep expert who I've had on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast multiple times. I sent him your question. Here is his answer.

“Her sleep is almost certainly improved by improving insulin sensitivity and tighter glucose control, increased dreaming and more memories of dreams as a second order consequence of better sleep, and epiphenomenon.” I asked do people dream even when they don't remember it, he said, “Yes, remembering dreams depends a lot on waking and temporal proximity to the dream. Basically, it's most likely that your sleep is getting better, because of all of the health changes with your insulin regulation that you've experienced with intermittent fasting, and then it sounds like we do always dream, but whether or not remember it has to do with the timing of when we wake up.” That's a short answer, but do you have thoughts, Gin?

Gin Stephens: No, that's what I was going to say as well. We do always dream, whether you remember it or not, and that people don't know that because if you don't remember it, you're not aware you dreamed, but you did.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. You can still have increased dreaming and more memories of them, because you're getting better sleep. Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: All right, this question comes from Britt and the subject is “ADF, or one meal a day, or both.” Britt says, “Hi, ladies. Love your podcasts and books. I'm a postmenopausal 53-year-old, and currently weigh around 190 pounds. I lost weight in 2010. I was 256 pounds, and she went to 132 pounds after a gastric sleeve, and I kept it off mostly until about two years ago by focusing on protein and veggies and incorporating fasting after discovering Dr. Fung. Between COVID and a foot injury, I regained a considerable amount of weight last year, so I'm starting this back on track with fasting. I have no trouble fasting on a daily basis 16 to 24 hours. It didn't seem like I was losing consistently, but I don't have the data to look back at. Now, I've got 60 plus pounds to re-lose.

After hearing Megan Ramos mention that 36 to 42 hours often works better for women, I decided to give it a try. I find it a lot harder to go the full 36 to 42 hours. Not physically, I don't have much hunger until the very end, but it's been fairly difficult mentally. I've struggled with feelings of deprivation and find myself thinking about eating at the end of the first day probably, two out of every three fasting cycles. I'm wondering what advice you might have. Is it really worth pushing myself to do the three longer cycles per week? Is there that much of a difference in weight loss? Do I kick off the year with ADF, and go for maximum weight loss? Start every fast with something like a 20-hour goal, and keep going if my head is in the right place that day? Just do a longer fast one day a week, and work my way back up to three, or kick back to one meal a day and save ADF for a future stall?” Those are a lot of options. She thought this through. She says, “Insight appreciated.”

Gin Stephens: All right, so there's a lot to unpack in there. First of all, I want to say, this is my experience, me. I lost 75 of my 80-ish pounds-- since I don't know what I weigh exactly, we'll say 80-ish. I lost the first 75 with a daily eating window, not doing any ADF or longer fasts during that period of time. I didn't do really ADF. I'd done it way before in earlier tries with fasting back in that 2009 to 2014 struggle period. When I wasn't consistent with anything, I would dabble in eating window, and I would dabble in alternate day fasting and nothing really stuck, so I wasn't consistent, but when I did finally get consistent and lose the weight in 2014 to 2015, it was with the daily eating window approach.

When you say, “works better,” well, that worked fine for me. It was after The Obesity Code came out when I was already in maintenance, but struggling with a little bit of weight regain, which I blame on the fact that I was not fasting clean, because I didn't understand all of that until after I read The Obesity Code, and then I switched to the clean fast, lost the weight I had regained, but right after I read The Obesity Code, I did start doing a 4:3 approach, because he doesn't really have a plan in the book, in The Obesity Code except the appendix at the back, he does have like a 4:3 kind of, where you're doing like three-- Like, you said that Megan Ramos mentioned three 36- to 42-hour fast per week, so that's what I did. I'm like, “Well, that's what he says, so I'm going to do it.”

I did it. I did re-lose, it was about eight pounds that I had regained, I did re-lose those doing that approach, and I also had switched to the clean fast. Did I re-lose those eight pounds, because I was doing ADF or, the 4:3 approach or did I lose them because I was finally fast and clean? We'll never know, because I can't go back in time and replicate that study with a different approach. I did struggle with feelings of deprivation like, you're saying, Britt, that you went through.

Do you need to do it to lose weight? Well, clearly not every woman needs to do it to lose weight, because I didn't. Do some women find that it's an approach that really helps their bodies? Yes, 100%. Especially, if you're insulin resistant, you've been overweight and obese for a long time. Now, you're talking about how you lost a great deal of weight in 2010 after a gastric sleeve. You do have a history of obesity and the weight loss surgery. That was a while ago, but you kept it off, and then you regained it, I guess with the stress of COVID and your injury, so you're getting back on track there.

You may need to throw in a longer fast here and there, but it's really not all or nothing. If you've got Fast. Feast. Repeat., I want you to reread the Intermittent Fasting Toolbox section and pay attention to the part in the book where I talk about a hybrid approach. It's really not all or nothing, where you have to either do daily eating window, or do longer fasts. You could throw in one 36-hour fast. Here on the DDD Social Network, our moderator, Roxy leads us through Meal-less Monday. I don't do it. I don't do Meal-less Monday, but a lot of people do. They start off every Monday with one longer fast to 36 to 42 hours, followed by an up day, and then the whole rest of the week, you could do daily eating window approach if you want to. That's just one way you could do it.

Once a week, after a weekend, some people find that just starts the week off right, and it feels good after a weekend where they might have had a little more indulgence than usual. It also keeps you from having that adaptation that you might have, because even though intermittent fasting does protect us metabolically in many ways, you still can adapt if you do exactly the same thing day in day out. Fortunately, for me, I never do, because I'll have a day where I'm just hungry and I eat more, I've never really fallen into that rut of 23:1 day after day after day or something. I just naturally switch things up. If you find yourself naturally not switching things up, then you might need to purposefully do some switching up.

Oh, one other thing that I highlighted that was so important. This sentence right here, “It didn't seem like I was losing consistently, but I don't have the data to look back at.” Okay, I really, really, really do not want you to go by feel or what it seems. I don't want anybody to do that. When I was trying to be an intuitive eater, and they're like, “Just eat intuitively and you'll be fine.” I was not good at knowing what my body was doing. I could gain a whole lot of weight without feeling it. You got to have some data. I want you to reread the Scale-Schmale chapter of Fast. Feast. Repeat., and if you don't want to use the scale, don't use the scale. That is only one way to do it. Use measurements, use progress photos, use honesty pants, but use something. If you are going to use the scale, weigh daily, and you need to calculate your weekly average, or use an app like Happy Scale that does that for you and shows you your trend. I don't want anybody to go by what it feels like. That is the number one worst way to know whether you're losing or gaining. I'm puffy right this minute, because I ate two meals yesterday with ice cream in between. “Feel like I might be gaining weight.” Am I? No. I'm just puffy. You really can't go by how you feel. I don't want you to do. That is not a good tool.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. I have three thoughts. The first thought was, it's ironic. I don't know if it's ironic. Okay, if I read her question a little bit out of order, and if I just read the end, and she's asking about what to do to lose this stubborn weight, I would suggest without reading the first paragraph of her message exactly what she did the first time around, which would be a high-protein veggie diet with a normal one meal a day type fasting window. It sounds like that's what worked for her the first time. I'm wondering why she doesn't want to do that again. It seems that instead she wants to do these really long fasts, but she doesn't like fasting longer.

Gin Stephens: Well, she doesn't say she did one meal a day at the beginning. She doesn't say that that's what she did. She discovered Dr. Fung, focused on protein and veggies. Maybe she was doing longer fasts, because a lot of people--

Melanie Avalon: And incorporating fasting.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, because we don't know what she did at the beginning. Well, although she does say after hearing Megan Ramos mentioned, “I decided to give it a try.”

Melanie Avalon: I feel this is a new idea to her.

Gin Stephens: Maybe.

Melanie Avalon: She finds it difficult mentally, so it's something that she is struggling with the concept and actually implementing it. For me, when it comes to weight loss, yes, the longer fasts are an avenue to that potentially. I believe the amount of change you can make if you haven't addressed the food choices within just a “normal fasting” one meal a day type window are extraordinary. I would suggest exactly what she already did, which was the protein and veggies. That's what I would suggest, is doing that unless for some reason that you don't want to do that again.

The second question was-- oh, this is a question for you, Gin. Just the concept in general, how do you feel about the concept of starting every fast with a 20-hour goal, and keep going if your head is in the right place that day? Is that something that you ever recommend to people to do?

Gin Stephens: When you start off with a goal that everyday must be 20, then I feel like, you're going to set yourself up for feeling disappointed and you've failed if you don't make that. You could say, “I want my week to have an average of 20,” or something like that, because then you'll have some days where it might have been 22, and another it was 18, but you still had an average of 20. Whereas, if you said every day, I'm going to make it to 20, that day that you did 18, you might feel like you failed, but really your average was 20.

Melanie Avalon: What's ironic is that was what worked best for me.

Gin Stephens: Was what? Every day it had to be 20?

Melanie Avalon: Well, not 20 specifically, but focusing on the minimum fasting hours, that was the most freeing approach for me.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's the thing. You have to find what's the most freeing approach to you, but a lot of people beat themselves up when they set a goal of, “Every day I'm going to do 20, and then I have permission to eat.” That's a rule, that's a diet rule that it might help you, maybe that's the thing that makes you successful, and there are people like that. But there are also a lot of people that feel like, “You've failed if you don't then make it to 20.”

For me, I am more of the average person, like I said. As long as I'm doing the average, this day was 18, but that day was 22, “Hey, it worked out.” That gives me flexibility, but also having a goal, but it's still a flexible goal, but it still averages out to be 20.

Melanie Avalon: How is it different from having an end to your eating window?

Gin Stephens: What do you mean?

Melanie Avalon: The way I like to do fasting is the marker that I have, and we've talked about this a lot before on the show, but the thing I'm counting and the marker that I have is the fast, and then when I eat, there's no rule or boundary on that. Compared to when you flip it, some people put the rule and boundary.

Gin Stephens: See, that was me. I was the eating window person. If I wanted to get a little more structured ever, if I needed to lose weight or something, I would work on focusing the length of my eating window and shutting it down. For me, tracking the eating window is a better approach, because if I have too long of an eating window, I can overeat. For me, the eating window was a better thing to try. As long as I kept it to five hours or less, that was better. My fast might have been 18, but my eating window still was 5, and then maybe the next day my fast was 22, but then my eating window was still kept it to less than 5.

Melanie Avalon: You really have to find what works for you. The only reason I wanted to elaborate on it was I didn't want to discourage, because like I said, for me, that's what works best-- is that I don't do it really anymore, but in the beginning, that's what really, really worked for me with minimum fasting hours, and then no rules, no regulations around the eating. That was just ridiculously freeing for me. Some people do better with the opposite, which is not having really any rules or regulations around the fast, and then having more rules and regulations around the eating window just as far as determining times of things.

Gin Stephens: It's what do you struggle with. For me, it was, “All right, I've had enough now, it's time to stop, my window has been open for five hours.” [laughs] That was like, “Okay, that's enough.”

Melanie Avalon: The question I was trying to get to-- because I think we're focused on the 20 hours, the question I was trying to get to though was, how do you feel about if somebody wants to do one of these longer fasts, the ones that Britt was referring to. The idea of I'll just do my normal time restricted eating intermittent fasting window, and then if I feel like it, go longer, how do you feel about that concept?

Gin Stephens: Well, that plays into the idea of intuitive eating. I like the idea of listening to your body, obviously. If you get to hour 20 and you say, “Am I hungry?” I'm really not. You give yourself permission to eat if you want to, instead of telling yourself you can't, or you're going to fail, and you can also do the down day approach where you have the 500-calorie meal on the down day. You could get to hour 20 and say, “All right, do I want to continue to fast to 36 hours?” Or, “Do I want to just play it by ear?” Or, “Do I want to have a down day meal?” Have a 500-calorie meal, and then close your window, and then the next day is an up day. That's also a perfectly good approach. Anybody who's like, “What is she talking about?” If you haven't read Fast. Feast. Repeat., the chapter on Alternate Daily Fasting Approaches. You can have a full 36- to 42-hour fast, or you can have a 500 calorie down day, where you fast clean, then you have one small 500 calorie meal, and then you start a second fast, and then the next day is your up day.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect. You're always such a wealth of knowledge.

Gin Stephens: That's because I got all this part down pat. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Don't ask me about ADF and all of this.

Gin Stephens: There's so many ways you can adjust it. What I really was interested in is feedback after people read Fast. Feast. Repeat., I talk about the hybrid approach, which is really I made that wording up. I didn't make up the word ‘hybrid,’ of course, but I applied it to fasting, I'd never seen it applied there, but people were like, “I had no idea you could mix and match.” I'm like, “Yes, yes, you can.” We're so used to following plans where people tell us exactly what to do, and instead, “No, this is your Intermittent Fasting Toolbox, and you can do whatever you want,” and there's the freedom.

Melanie Avalon: Taylor Swift says, “take my hand, wreck my plans, or something like that from Willow.

Hi, friends. Okay, we have thrilling news about Joovv. They have new devices and we have a discount. Yes, a discount, no longer a free gift, a discount. As you guys know, there are a few non-negotiables in my personal daily routine. I focus on what and when I eat every single day. And I also focus on my daily dose of healthy light through Joovv’s red light therapy devices. Guys, I use my Joovv all the time. Red light therapy is one of the most effective health modalities you can use in your home. I've personally seen so many health benefits. I find it incredible for regulating my circadian rhythm, helping my mood, boosting my thyroid, smoothing my skin, and I've also used it on multiple occasions for targeted pain relief. Anyone who's familiar with red light therapy, pretty much knows that Joovv is the leading brand. They pioneered this technology and they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use.

Since then, they've remained the most innovative, forward-thinking light therapy brands out there. And we're so excited because Joovv just launched their next generation of devices and they've made huge upgrades to what was already a really incredible system. Their new devices are sleeker, they're up to 25% lighter, and they all have the same power that we've come to expect from them. They've also intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. They've also upgraded the setup for the new devices with quick, easy mounting options, so your new Joovv can fit just about any space.

The new devices include some pretty cool new features, things like their Recovery Plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves an extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near-infrared light. And this is my personal favorite update. For those of us who like to use do devices to wind down at night, they now have an ambient mode that creates a calming lower intensity of light at night. Guys, I am so excited about this. Using this light at night is way healthier than bright blue light from all of our screens and much more in line with your circadian rhythm. I was using my current Joovv devices at night anyway to light my whole apartment, so this new ambient mode is really going to be a game-changer for me. Of course, you still get the world-class customer service from your helpful, friendly Joovv team.

So, if you're looking for a new Joovv device for your home, we have some very exciting news. You can go to joovv.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST. You'll get an exclusive discount on Joovv’s newest devices. Yes, discount, I said it. That's J-O-O-V-V dotcom, forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Exclusions apply, and this is for a limited time only. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Shall we do one more question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wait, I think it's take my hand, wreck my plans, that's my man.” Okay. I wanted to actually throw out one. It's not really a resource, but I actually did just post a blog post all on fat cells. The reason I'm bringing it up, as I mentioned, because she had gastric surgery, right? Yes. I do talk about that a little bit. I dive deep into fat cells and burning and how they expand and how they shrink, and I address the myth of do fat cells die, because people think that they don't ever die naturally, but they do. They do about 10% per year. And then, I actually talk about different fat removal methods, things like CoolSculpting, liposuction and things like that, and I ponder the implications of that and what that leads to weight regain afterwards. It's interesting to hear for example, well, she a gastric sleeve so that creates weight loss by not actually removing fat cells, but by shrinking your stomach. If listeners are interested, it's at melanieavalon.com/fatcells.

Gin Stephens: All right. We have a question from Carolina, or Carol-eena, either, it's a beautiful name, as I'm sitting here in South Carolina recording. Her topic is “Toilet urgency when breaking fast,” and she says, “Good day to you. I've been doing IF for a year or so with some 24 hour and 36-hour fasts now and then. A very common occurrence for me is to have toilet urgency with number two very soon after breaking fast. Any thoughts, please? Thanks, Carolina,” or Carol-eena.

Melanie Avalon: All right, Carolina. I would say Caro-lina, but who knows. We've had questions about this before, and it can obviously be a lot of things. One of the things that I have read that I feel makes a lot of sense to me that it could be is just when we eat, even though we're putting in food at the top of our system, and it's in the stomach and the small intestine, that tends to stimulate peristalsis, so digestive movement throughout our entire digestive tract. When we eat, it can stimulate our lower colon, our large intestine, and depending on the state of our large intestine in general, which depends a lot on your gut microbiome state, it can basically start that process, and depending on what the environment situation is down there, that might manifest as diarrhea. That's an option. Another option, I don't know what you're eating, but people can experience this effect when they have fat with a meal and it creates stimulation of the gallbladder, and that can lead to an effect down there.

As far as my suggestion about the solution, and we just really don't have enough information to know, but it would be something where you would want to work with your food choices to try to address your gut microbiome state down there. Finding the diet that works for you for that, and I know that's really vague. As far as supplements might help, probiotics can potentially help. I really like P3-OM with BiOptimizers. They're actually the sponsor on today's episode, so you can listen to the ad for that to get a coupon. I actually just emailed them last night and I said, I was like, “Can you send me some more P3-OM?” because I'm running out.

I really think that looking at your food choices would be the thing to do here. The reason I think it starts happening a lot for a lot of people with fasting is you've changed from eating throughout the day and having this peristalsis and slow movement throughout the day, compared to a fasting situation where it's more of a-- sort of like a shock. You haven't been eating and then you do eat, and so it just turns on all of this movement. That's my thoughts, Gin. What are your thoughts?

Gin Stephens: We hear it a lot in the communities that people have this issue. Not a lot of people have it, but we hear it frequently. That's the way of putting it. It's a common thing that we hear that happens to some people. I'm so glad that it didn't happen to me, though. [laughs] This is a problem I'm glad I didn't have. I feel your pain, those of you that have had this issue, because I'm sorry, I know that it's not fun, and you're like, “What's happening?” What Melanie said, trying to get your gut health back in balance is a great idea. Just know that, yeah, it's your body getting things moving again, really.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Just the food.

Melanie Avalon: The food choices. That actually made me think of something, Gin.

Gin Stephens: Okay, what?

Melanie Avalon:  I have a question for you.

Gin Stephens: All right.

Melanie Avalon: I've been dying to know, are you still implementing anything that you learned from your Zoe trial?

Gin Stephens: That's a great question. I've got it in the back of my mind. I will never not know that information about myself. It helps me just feel confident in my food choices, but I already was. Knowledge is power. Like I said, it confirmed what I knew about what foods really worked well for me and taught me a few things about that, and so, do I follow it like, this is how I eat exactly according to these recommendations? No.

Melanie Avalon: What dd they recommend for you?

Gin Stephens: It's not as easy as just saying that. There's an app and you can plug things in and see what things work well for your gut, what things work well for you based on your blood clearance, basically you know how quickly you clear blood glucose, how quickly you clear fat. What really was interesting to me, was how the timing of what I eat makes a difference as far as if I eat too much fat in a concentrated period of time.

For example, it would be better for my body to eat over-- maybe eat a little something to open my window, and then wait a while longer-- If I eat something high fat, wait longer before I eat again. The same amount of food in a six-hour window if I'm eating a lot of fat, would allow my body to clear the fat before I put more in.

Melanie Avalon: What's really interesting is, I don't know enough about the details, but it's like that study we mentioned at the beginning where I was saying that fat--

Gin Stephens: Fat clearance. 100%.

Melanie Avalon: Or something about the timing of fat into the bloodstream was a factor. What did it say?

Gin Stephens: I think you use the word ‘fat clearance.’

Melanie Avalon: Uptake and storage of meal fatty acids including meal fat content, rate of meal fat appearance in circulation. All of these factors are so, so important.

Gin Stephens: We've all been trained by the diet industry that the only thing that matters is calories in, calories out. If you're eating the exact same thing, or the macros, the exact same macros, the exact same calories, why does it matter if you eat them over one hour or six hours? But the way your body handles it, it really can matter.

Melanie Avalon: Sorry, I'm just remembering something that I-- I don't know if we have time. Okay, I'll tell it really quick. Dr. Gundry’s book that we talked about, there was a study. Are you familiar with the NIH study? There was one study in monkeys. I don't know the details, but there were two different institutions that did a study in monkeys, and they were looking at calorie restriction. One of the groups testing the monkeys, the monkeys were on a high fat, sugary, processed diet. The other monkeys, they were on a more whole foods type diet. Both of the monkeys had health benefits, but only the monkeys on the processed diet had increased longevity.

Gin Stephens: Processed food diet had better longevity?

Melanie Avalon: Yes. They were trying to theorize why that was, and Dr. Gundry was saying that he had theorized with other people that it was the low protein content of the processed diet that was the reason. Then, they did a follow-up study. I got so happy, because I read this. Then I was like, “I think I know why what it was.” Dr. Gundry doesn't really come out and say this, and I talked with him. When I interviewed him, and I asked him about it, and I was like, “Is it this,” and he said, “Yes, it's that.” He said the publishers made him word it really weird, because he couldn't come out and say this. [laughs]

They did a follow-up study with mice to try to figure out what was going on, and they did all different setups. They did mice that were eating their normal food all throughout the day, and then mice that were eating the food in a calorie restricted and a fasted window, like a time-restricted window, and then mice that could have all of their normal food, but in a time restricted window, and they were trying to figure out what was going on. Long story short, they found that the longer fasting was creating the most health benefits. The theory with the monkeys is that the high fat diet, because they ate for a shorter amount of time, because in order to control the calorie situation, they would give it just at one time, they didn't have access to it all day.

Gin Stephens: They had longer fasting. That was a variable. It wasn't the food, it was the longer fasting.

Melanie Avalon: Right. The monkeys eating the whole foods, it took them longer to eat it, compared to the monkeys that ate the processed foods, they ate it really fast, and then they had a longer fast, and they actually had more health benefits, and this is all theorizing. With calories, if they are eaten and cleared a lot faster, it matters. The timing matters, because I read the section in his book. I kept reading it over and over and over again, because I was thinking what I just said. I was like it just sounds, because the processed food was digested way faster, but they had a longer fast, and that was where the benefits came. He doesn't outright say that, because the publishers didn't want him to make it look like he was saying eat processed food.

Gin Stephens: There's never been a study that had ultra-processed food lead to better health outcomes, with all other variables being equal.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. With all other variables constant, yeah.

Gin Stephens: See, that's the thing. You can't draw conclusions when the variables are so unequal.

Melanie Avalon: What you'd have to do for that study is you'd have to have ultra-processed food, same amount of calories in whole foods, and then you'd have to dose out the processed food, so that the time window is the same time window as the whole foods.

In any case, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you'd like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com, and you can submit questions there. We have all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. The show notes for today's episode are at ifpodcast.com/episode211. And then lastly, you can follow us on Instagram. I'm MelanieAvalon, Gin is GinStephens, and you can join our various groups that we talked about in the show notes. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, that's it.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this was absolutely wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right, bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Apr 25

Episode 210: Cryotherapy, Building Muscle, Skin Tags, IF Headaches, Hair Loss, Autophagy, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 210 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

Blublox: Overexposure to blue light in our modern environments can lead to increased anxiety, stress, headaches, and other health conditions. Even a tiny exposure to artificial light can completely offset your circadian rhythm! Unlike many “blue light blocking” glasses on the market, BLUBlox provides glasses that block the exact blue wavelengths you need to regulate sleep, reduce anxiety, and much more! They also provide different types of glasses for the time of day, season, and your personal electronic and light exposure! Plus, for every BLUblox purchase, they donate a pair of glasses to someone in need! Go To blublox.com And Use The Code ifpodcast For 15% Off!

INSIDETRACKER: Get The Blood And DNA Tests You Need To Be Testing, Personalized Dietary Recommendations, An Online Portal To Analyze Your Bloodwork, Find Out Your True "Inner Age," And More! Listen To My Interview With The Founder Gil Blander At melanieavalon.com/insidetracker! Go To insidetracker.com/melanie To Get 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Support Your Gut Health With A Patented, Proteolytic, Anti-Viral, Superstar Probiotic, P3OM! Go To p3om.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:05 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order!

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #60 - Wim Hof

Delay, Don't deny social network

IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life

Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon 

Lumen Lovers: Biohack Your Carb And Fat Burning (With Melanie Avalon)

16:00 - Listener Q&A: Laura - Stuff You Like

19:05 - BLUBLOX: Go To Blublox.Com And Use The Code Ifpodcast For 15% Off!

LIFEPRO VIBRATION PLATES

THE SHAPA NUMBERLESS SCALE

21:25 - INSIDETRACKER: Go To insidetracker.com/melanie To Get 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

24:15 - Listener Q&A: Michelle - Fasting but GETTING BIGGER????

31:10 - Listener Q&A: Laurel - Daily Headaches While Fasting

Drink LMNT

37:25 - Listener Q&A: Diane - Hair Loss

45:25 - BIOPTIMIZERS: Go To p3om.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

47:40 - Listener Q&A: Cindas - Sensitive Stomach

Get Melanie's App To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue Of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, Histamine, Amine, Glutamate, Oxalate, Salicylate, Sulfite, And Thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, Reactions To Look For, Lists Of Foods High And Low In Them, The Ability To Create Your Own Personal Lists, And More!

51:50 - Listener Q&A: Allie - Autophagy and me

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 210 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi friends, are you struggling to lose weight despite fasting clean? Maybe you're even making healthy food choices, fasting more, shortening your eating window, ramping up your exercise, and yet the weight won't budge? Well, we actually just found a major reason for why that may be. As it turns out, there are compounds in our environment called endocrine disruptors. Meaning, they mess with your hormones. Studies show that a lot of these endocrine disruptors are actually obesogens. Meaning, they literally make you gain weight. They also make it hard to lose weight. These toxic obesogens are naturally stored in fat. When they enter your body, your body creates fat to store them in to protect you. Once they're in that fat, they then change the genes in your fat stores, so that you are more likely to store more fat and less likely to burn it. They can also affect your insulin signaling and boost your appetite, so you want to eat more and store more fat.

Most of us are actually exposed to these obesogenic endocrine disruptors daily in our skincare and makeup. That is actually one of the largest sources of these compounds. Yep. As it turns out, when you're washing your face, putting on makeup, using lotion, or even putting on sunscreen, you are likely putting 1 of up to 1300 compounds banned in Europe for their toxicity- and obesity-causing potential but they're completely fine for use in US skincare. When you put them on your skin, you're making it that much harder to burn fat, and that much easier to store fat. So, if you're struggling to lose weight, you definitely, definitely want to clean up your skincare ASAP.

You can do that easily with a company called Beautycounter. They make safe skincare and makeup products that are extensively tested to be free of endocrine disrupters, obesogens, and other toxic compounds. They're truly safe and supportive of your health. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. If you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. If you'd also like exclusive discounts, giveaways, and the latest on the science of skincare, definitely get on my clean beauty email list. That's melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. So, are you fasting clean inside and out? Well, now you can. All right, now back to the show.

Hi everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 210 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi everybody.

Melanie Avalon: Gin, 210, it’s 210.

Gin Stephens: Wait, what?

Melanie Avalon: The numbers are in order.

Gin Stephens: Oh.

Melanie Avalon: Counting down.

Gin Stephens: Okay. Yeah. 210, that's right. I was like, “What? What are you talking about?” It's not 210, episode 210, got it. You like when things count down?

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. It just seems like a pattern. It doesn't mean anything. How are you?

Gin Stephens: Well, the other day, yesterday was, 4/3/21 we're recording this, on the fourth, but yesterday was 4/3/21. Did you know that?

Melanie Avalon: No. If we had done this yesterday, it would have been 210 on 4//3/21.

Gin Stephens: That would have been cool.

Melanie Avalon: I know.

Gin Stephens: Today is my dad's birthday. He's got the coolest birthday. He was born on for 4/4/44.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow.

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: That's a cool one.

Gin Stephens: Now, the world knows how old my dad is.

Melanie Avalon: This is true.

Gin Stephens: We're recording on 4/4, and yesterday it was 4/3/21. Hello, numbers.

Melanie Avalon: I think I'm outnumbered now.

Gin Stephens: There you go.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today?

Gin Stephens: I'm great. I'm at the beach. If anybody hears anything weird, that's why, or if it sounds different. [sighs] It's spring break.

Melanie Avalon: Well, are a lot of people there for spring break or is it--?

Gin Stephens: Yes. It is cold. This morning, it was like in the 40s and I look out in the front there and there's people swimming in the pool, I'm like, “What is wrong with you? Are you from Canada?” or something. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness.

Gin Stephens: No offense to people from Canada. People down here that are from the south are not swimming in the ocean or the pool today. Let me just tell you. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I have a very related to that exciting update.

Gin Stephens: What is it?

Melanie Avalon: I am so excited. You might have seen it on my Instagram. There's a place near where I live, and you can get unlimited-- it's insane the deal, for the first month at least. You get unlimited hyperbaric oxygen treatment, which I am actually too scared to do. Are you familiar with that?

Gin Stephens: I've heard of it for people who have like diving accidents or something, right?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's like you get in a pressurized chamber and they pump in pure oxygen. I don't think I can do it because my phobia is claustrophobia and also pressure on things. It's basically the worst situation I could ever be in, I won't do that. It's unlimited that, unlimited infrared sauna unlimited, they actually have Joovv devices.

Gin Stephens: That's like actual Joovv?

Melanie Avalon: It is the actual Joovv brand. Unlimited stretch sessions, you get one IV. But the main thing that I am doing it for is unlimited cryotherapy.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Well, very cool.

Melanie Avalon: Have you done that before? Have we talked about this?

Gin Stephens: Well, of course not.

Melanie Avalon: I did it three days in a row.

Gin Stephens: Are you supposed to do it three days in a row?

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to do it every single day that I can do it. I can't even describe how it makes me feel. Oh, my goodness. You feel high, like high, after, not during.

Gin Stephens: After the cryotherapy?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. Basically, for listeners who are not familiar, cryotherapy, it's this chamber that you get into and they pump in liquid nitrogen. It gets down to-- I think it depends, but I think it can get down to around negative 250 degrees Fahrenheit. I've been doing two and a half minutes. I don't know what it is, probably around negative 200. It's so exciting. You hook up your phone, so I play a Taylor Swift song. Then I get in, and then it fogs up, and you can see the thing counting down. But then, the nitrogen gets so thick, you can't see the clock anymore, and you're like, “How much longer?”

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that doesn't sound fun at all.

Melanie Avalon: It's incredible.

Gin Stephens: I'd rather go swim in the ocean today.

Melanie Avalon: I'm not kidding. I actually mean this in the most authentic, serious way.

Gin Stephens: It's better than getting in cold water?

Melanie Avalon: I think it is more doable and less unpleasant than a cold shower. I actually mean that, like--

Gin Stephens: I believe you.

Melanie Avalon: When I do a cold shower blast at the end of my shower, I used to do 40 seconds, and now I give up after 10 seconds. But this is just so cold that it almost doesn't even register as cold if that makes sense.

Gin Stephens: Well, okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon: It just shocks you so much.

Gin Stephens: Seriously, though, is there an upper limit that you're supposed to do? Is it good to do it every day or is that too much?

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. I posted about it on my Instagram and my Facebook group. Some people have been saying they do it every day. Some people say they do it as much as they can. I seem fine. You're supposed to work your way up to higher and higher levels. It seems like the more you do it, probably the easier it will get. The first time I did it-- I've only done it three times. The first session, I did the beginner, which was negative 160 something degrees and I'm at intermediate.

Gin Stephens: You beginner you. [laughs] Negative 160, yeah, okay.

Melanie Avalon: It's so exciting.

Gin Stephens: Well, have fun.

Melanie Avalon: Listeners, if you want pictures, go to my Instagram, I posted a picture. I'll post a picture of the actual tank. I just posted a picture of me in front of it, but--

Gin Stephens: Well, I'm going to go look at it right this minute.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. I really like the end. I already said this, but at the end when the nitrogen gets so thick that you can't see the clock anymore, it's just this surreal, thrilling experience. Oh, last thing, I should probably say why I'm doing this. The health benefits of cold are pretty, pretty fantastic. A reason that we do intermittent fasting, tying it into our show, one of the reasons is that fasting activates a lot of survival-type genes in our body that basically go around and clean up shop and boost our immune system and just make us more resilient, and cold activates a lot of those same and other genetic pathways as well. It has a lot of health benefits. I've done an episode with Wim Hof, who's basically like the cold guy, you can check out that episode at melanieavalon.com/cold. It's really good. They did one study actually and they were testing specifically cryotherapy in patients with depression. In half of the patients, it reduced their depression by 50% compared to the control group, which was either none or 3% of people. There was basically no effect in the control group, which I can see why. You just get out and you're just like smiling. That's my pitch.

Gin Stephens: Oh, well, that's good. Have I talked to you since I left Facebook?

Melanie Avalon: I asked you how it went.

Gin Stephens: On Messenger?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I didn't think I talked to you live, because I think we recorded last Sunday, the day before. Can I just tell you that people are fantastic? They're amazing. I got 99.9% positive feedback from people.

Melanie Avalon: That's amazing.

Gin Stephens: It was amazing. I was so scared when I woke up Monday morning, and I was going to archive the Advanced group and the One Meal a Day group. The big group is still open. The moderators are answering questions on Ask the Moderator and running the daily threads. My moderators are amazing. They are just amazing. I also sent out my blog post that explained why. It's at ginstephens.com, and it's called Change is in the Air. I have sent out blog posts before, and maybe one person replies to it. I got so many replies to the blog post from people who were understanding, and it said it made them think about it. Just amazing.

Melanie Avalon: That makes me so happy.

Gin Stephens: Also, no one ever comments on my blog posts, but 80 people commented. You know you can comment on a blog post?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Wow.

Gin Stephens: I mean, it made me cry.

Melanie Avalon: That's amazing.

Gin Stephens: I was so scared that people were going to be like, “No, I hate you, Gin. How could you leave Facebook? You're awful. You've ruined my life.” Instead, people were like, “Take care of yourself.” They were so supportive. Anyway, it was amazing.

Melanie Avalon: That's wonderful.

Gin Stephens: Also, there's a kid running up and down in the hall, in case you hear it. Everybody, the teacher in me is going crazy. I'm at the beach condo, and someone is running up and down right outside the room while I'm recording it. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I heard that. I was like, “Are there children?” [laughs]

Gin Stephens: There are children at the beach condo. If you hear running, that's what it is. Anyway, I'm just so grateful. I am so, so, so grateful. First of all, I'm grateful to the moderators that have allowed me to keep the large Facebook group open for people who want intermittent fasting support for free still on Facebook, but I'm also grateful to people who understood why I left Facebook. I feel like I have my life back in some ways. I really just can't explain how-- because we had pending posts, and I would go check them every 10 minutes, I swear I was on there, and it gave me so much stress and anxiety.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. No, I can imagine.

Gin Stephens: I guess no one was going to drop dead if their Facebook post wasn't approved but I felt personally responsible, like I needed to be in there doing it. Anyway, and I'm loving that there's an Ask Gin Group on the new platform. I'm also really grateful for people that have joined me on the DDD Social Network. There's an Ask Gin Group, so anybody can go in there and ask me a question, and because of the way that the platform works with the notifications, I get an email. I see an email that I need to go answer someone's question. It's just so much more of a relaxed way of responding to people.

Melanie Avalon: Well, that's very exciting.

Gin Stephens: It is exciting.

Melanie Avalon: I feel like it's going to add a really nice-- you already had a foundation, but like a stable, healthy foundation to all the work that you're doing.

Gin Stephens: Exactly.

Melanie Avalon: Well, that is all good things.

Gin Stephens: It is good. I just feel so relieved, because I was like, what's going to happen if everybody's so mad, and then no one ever listens to any of my podcasts again, because the whole key was that I was on Facebook. That was the key to my life. I'm just so glad that it isn't. I've been stuck in fear for a long time. Knowing I needed to do something different and knowing I wasn't present in my life but knowing I really couldn't do anything. When I wrote Fast. Feast. Repeat., okay, I wrote it in 2019. I purposely didn't say the word ‘Facebook’ in it one time. My editor was, like, “Don't you want to put in your bio about your Facebook groups?” I'm like, “No, do not put the word ‘Facebook,” because I just knew it was unsustainable. That was we only had 100,000 members at that point. I already knew I was like, “I don't know how I'm going to manage this.” Ah, such a relief.

Melanie Avalon: Well, for listeners, we'll put links in the show notes to Gin's new group that you can join the DDD Network.

Gin Stephens: DDD Social Network. That's right.

Melanie Avalon: DDD Social Network. Then I always do just want to clarify, I do still have my Facebook groups.

Gin Stephens: I do too. I have the big one. The Delay, Don’t Deny Intermittent Fasting Support, but you won't get me, you'll get a moderator, and the moderators are fabulous at answering the questions. They've all been trained by me. They love what they're doing. It really helps them become stronger in their intermittent fasting practice too, they enjoy supporting new members, they like to do it. I told all of them, “If this is not bringing you joy, walk away. You just tell me.” It is bringing them joy.

Melanie Avalon: A lot of communities, for listeners, DDD Social Network, the existing Facebook groups Gin has. Then I still have, if you want to talk about cryotherapy, and all the things, I have IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life, also Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare group, and then a group for Lumen, Biosense, CGMs, and all that stuff. I've actually contemplated, the other day, I was like, “Should I start an Oura ring group?” No, at least not right now, but contemplating it. On that note, shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's get started. The first is a question from Laura. The subject is “Stuff You Like.” She says, “First of all, I love your podcast. Thank you for all the information and inspiration. If you could choose only one or two items from the stuff you like list, what would you choose? And why?”

Melanie Avalon: All right, so that's a great question from Laura. I'm glad she sent this because I realized I think I've dropped the ball on updating that recently. I thought about this, I didn't even pull up the page. Basically, that page is supposed to have everything that we've ever talked about liking. I actually, my number one answer is the books because I think the most important thing to me, or one of the most important things to me in my daily life is knowledge and finding knowledge and researching. All of the books, if I can list that as one thing and then second would probably-- but it's so hard. If I had to pick an actual device or something like that, I don't know, it's probably red-light therapy, Joovv, or BLUblox, blue light blocking glasses. Those are both just so invaluable to my daily life. I can't imagine my life without them. Or Beautycounter. Okay, that was a lot of stuff. How about you, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, I love Beautycounter as well. I've started using my blue blocking glasses again, from BLUblox. I'm lazy about using them. I don't like putting glasses on my face. [laughs] I'm doing some research for my new book and got to that section. I'm like, “Darn it, you really should be using these. You really, really should. Darn it.” The science is so clear.

Melanie Avalon: Which ones do you have again? Are they red colored?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. You're wearing them at night before bed?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, is it helping?

Gin Stephens: I don't know. It's hard to know. I think so. Yeah, blue blocking glasses. I need something else, like something that just attaches to my face and they're not glasses. I don't know how to fix it. I don't know what I need. Maybe like a face shield, I'm not wearing glasses but they're important. I don't know, maybe I need like a bubble, like astronauts’ wear, or I just need to go to bed when the sun is down. I don't know. Anyway, the science is so very clear, it makes sense why we're not supposed to see those wavelengths at night because the blue light is the wavelength from the middle of the day.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. When I interviewed Andy Mant for the second time recently on my show, he said that even a brief exposure to blue light at night sets back your melatonin production by 30 minutes, which is upsetting.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. It's hard to do. I'm taking off my makeup with my eyes closed, so I don't accidentally see light. It's [laughs] really a challenge.

Melanie Avalon: Just thinking about what I do, because I put on the yellow, the SummerGLO ones earlier in the day. Well, when the sun's going down, I put on the SummerGLO one. Then if I'm taking off my makeup, then I guess I just take them off. Actually, I probably sometimes take off my makeup in the dark, and then switch over to the red. If listeners would like their own pair, they can go to BLUblox.com, that's spelled B-L-U-B-L-O-X dotcom. The coupon code, IFPODCAST, gets you 15% off. Something cool that BLUblox does is for every pair of glasses you buy, they actually donate a pair of glasses to someone in need.

Andy created the company because he realized the importance of how much blue light affects everything like our sleep, our stress, our anxiety. Then, he went actually tested a lot of the blue light blocking glasses on the market and realize they weren't actually blocking what they said they're blocking, so he decided to start his own company. I love BLUblox. They have so many options. They have all different styles and you can get them in prescription, if you have a prescription which is really cool. They also have clear computer glasses that don't block all of the blue light but those are good if you're staring at screens all day. Huge, huge fan. Again, the link for them is blublox.com, coupon code IFPODCAST gets you 15% off. Yes, they donate a pair of reading glasses to someone in need with every purchase that you'd buy. That worked well.

Gin Stephens: That did work. Well, I have a couple of other things that I really like. First of all, is my LifePro vibration plate. Yeah, ginstephens.com/lifepro, you can see about those. I also love my Shapa scale. I'm still using it, ginstephens.com/shapa. I really love it. It's helping me a lot. To have that, that color, it keeps me from feeling crazy about a number.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that makes sense. I also want to add Oura ring to my list. I got my new diamond one.

Gin Stephens: Oh, how's that?

Melanie Avalon: It's really pretty. Although I feel like it probably does look like a engagement ring or wedding ring.

Gin Stephens: Are you wearing it on the wedding finger?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: All right, well, you're married to Oura.

Melanie Avalon: I am. [laughs] I do. It's measuring my heart, literally. I did a lot of research on which finger to use, but my ring finger is just the most comfortable.

Gin Stephens: It's 2021, you can do whatever you want.

Melanie Avalon: This is true.

Gin Stephens: The worst thing that's going to happen is who's going to think you're married. Oh, no.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, no. [laughs] Oh, my goodness.

Hi, friends. I wanted to tell you about one of the most incredible resources for taking charge of your blood tests and lab work, ever. I am a huge fan of a company called InsideTracker. They are actually a David Sinclair partnered company. What they do is they provide access to the blood tests that you need to be testing, as well as interpretations, so that you can figure out what that all means.

Basically, we often go to our doctor, we get blood tests, we test things, but is it what we need to be testing? What does it even mean? That's what InsideTracker is here for. They've done extensive testing to figure out which blood markers can tell you the most about your actual health. These aren't necessarily all the tests that you might expect. They provide personalized interpretations of those results along with dietary and lifestyle recommendations, so that you can truly take charge of your health. Their InnerAge, for example, analyzes your blood work to determine your true “inner age” and how to lower it. I did it recently. Thankfully, my inner age was lower than my actual chronological age, but there were still some things that I could work on. InsideTracker has really helped me meet my goals in that way.

They've also got DNA testing, as well as one of my favorite things, which is their online portal. Guys, this online portal is a game-changer that includes your results from InsideTracker, but then you can upload all of your own data from any other blood results that you've had through your doctor, so helpful. You just go into the portal, you drop in your lab results, and then you have all their lab results all in one place. It's so easy to see how things have changed over time, and they interpret these lab results from other companies by their standards. It is so helpful. I cannot even describe how much I use this platform.

If you'd like to learn more about them, as well as all about bloodwork testing, definitely check out my interview I did with the founder, Gil Blander. That's at melanieavalon.com/iInsidetracker. And InsideTracker also has an amazing offer just for my audience. It was 20%, I asked if it could be 30, and they said yes. They are so amazing. So, if you go to melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker, you can use the coupon code Melanie30, to get 30% off sitewide. Yes, 30% off sitewide, melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker, you can use the coupon code Melanie30. That’s M-E-L-A-N-I-E 30, I'll put all of this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Shall we jump into our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: This comes from Michelle. The subject is, “FASTING BUT GETTING BIGGER????” She has that in all caps with lots of question marks, so she seems a little bit distressed about this. She says, “Hello Gin and Melanie, I thoroughly enjoy your podcast, your knowledge, your willingness to do all the research and your expertise on IF. I am 51 years old, I started fasting June 1st, 2018 but didn't know about the clean fast until December 2018, and I've been a faithful clean faster ever since. I had no weight to lose when I started but just thought my body was starting to look older. My dad had Parkinson's disease, which I would like to avoid if at all possible. I started IF for the health benefits and I have seen felt many. Greatly reduced inflammation, no more eczema skin tags gone.” I want to circle back to the skin tags, by the way, Gin.

Gin Stephens: Oh yeah, I know what that is, by the way.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. “So much energy. No more bloating or gas, increased muscle mass, to name a few. This last one brings me to my question. I work out every day for at least one hour and then walk my dog three to six miles most days. I do HIIT workouts, cycling, weight training, running, stairs, elliptical, kayaks, swim all the things. My body is getting bigger, not in a bad way but I don't really want to be bigger. My legs/butt are rock hard. My arms are quite muscular. I have abs, but a tiny bit of flab, I have three kids, just under my belly button. I fast clean for 19 to 21 hours every day, eat all the things and one meal and a snack, but mostly healthy and hardly any processed foods and rarely any added sugar. I do eat fruit. I'm not much for alcohol, but I have an occasional drink. My jeans have gotten tight through the legs, and it makes me sad.

I've been the same size my whole life until now. I don't really weigh, but I would say I've always been 115 pounds, I'm 5’6.5” tall. When I last saw a doctor, they weighed me in at 126 pounds. I'm not at all concerned about the extra numbers on the scale but I do want my clothes to fit and I will never go back to all those daily meals and snacks. Yuck. I do not want to let up on my exercise. I have good energy and like to expend it. Any suggestions or ideas on how to fix this? I understand it's not a bad problem to have, but it's still a problem for me. Thank you again for all you have done and continue to do to help so many people. You two are a blessing. Michelle.”

Gin Stephens: Okay, Michelle, I've got some news for you that might be bad news, or maybe it's good news. All right, until we get to the part where we know that you're 5’6.5” tall, and you were 115, now you're 126, and you work out a lot, and your legs and butt are rock hard. You my dear are putting on muscle. We talked about how fasting increases human growth hormone and you're able to build muscle more easily. That's what's happening. You are going to have to stop doing so much working out or accept that you are now building muscle and you are going to be bigger. You're not gaining fat. If you're rock hard, it looks like you've gained 11 pounds of lean muscle honestly. Wouldn't you think so, Melanie? I don't know that she's gained 11 pounds of lean muscle, but she was 115. She's now 126. 126 is on the low end of a healthy weight for 5’6”. It's definitely not overweight, it sounds like you are just-- I bet you are gorgeous. I don't know that there's a problem to solve, except that your body is different now and more muscular.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, my thoughts were that most of the weight gain is likely muscle, most likely. It's harder for women to quit on size when it comes to muscle. If we do put on size, it's usually in our legs, that's like our thighs.

Gin Stephens: That's where she's having the trouble.

Melanie Avalon: That's where it feels tight. I think that's probably what's going on is that you are gaining muscle in your legs.

Gin Stephens: She said her arms are quite muscular, she said.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, also that too. Yeah. Just as far as like, be getting bigger from an actual, size perception, changing how your clothes fit, that will probably happen in your thighs and your legs, which is what you're experiencing. It's possible that you just gained muscle, but also didn't really lose fat. So, your legs would just be-- I mean, they would just be getting bigger, that would just be understood. My suggestion would actually be because I am all for muscle, 100%. I think it's-- honestly, the more I researched the more experts I interview-- People don't really talk about this that much, but it's thought that insulin resistance actually starts at the muscle. It's the muscle that first-- I don't know if it's that the muscle becomes insulin resistant, or we lose muscle so we don't have a glucose sync, and so that becomes an issue but muscle is just so, so important for overall health.

What I would suggest actually is if you don't want this volume, so this bigger-ness and the jeans and everything like that, I would change the type of the exercise that you're doing. She said she's doing workouts, cycling, weight training, running, stairs, elliptical, kayak, swim. I don't know what type of weight training she's doing and stuff, but if she's doing the type of weight training that specifically, its purpose is to grow like your legs bigger with muscle, maybe don't focus on that as much, maybe focus on full body strength, maybe try yoga or something, something that will be more toning and supporting your current muscle, rather than necessarily building it per se. I think if you change the type of workouts you're doing--

Gin Stephens: Like a Pilates kind a thing maybe. Get long lean muscles.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, especially it sounds like she really likes working out. Just changing that-- Oh, and she's doing cycling.

Gin Stephens: This is the magic of human growth hormone. I'm serious. She's 51, putting on lean muscle. The more lean muscle that we can have as we age, the better.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. This is a good problem to have, I understand for your own personal preference that you don't aesthetically want it to be that way. Just change the type of exercise you're doing. But I would still support all of the strength exercise, just a different type. If she is doing the cycling, the hard type of cycling, that's going to build your thighs a lot. Speaking from experience, growing up, but yeah, awesome.

Gin Stephens: All right, we have a question from Laurel, and the subject is “Daily headaches while fasting.” She says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. Thanks for creating such a fabulous resource for intermittent fasting. I began IF in 2018 after having my daughter to lose the baby weight and never looked back. On average, I typically do 18:6 or one meal a day, with an evening eating window. I found recently that in the afternoons, I started getting headaches. They're not horribly painful, but more just uncomfortable and distracting. I know that I'm fat adapted because I've been eating a mostly ketogenic diet for years and have been doing IF for almost three years. I also drink tons of water during the day, usually around 70 to 80 ounces at least. I also noticed that these headaches disappear when I eat a snack. So, it's something food related, but I don't know why I'm getting headaches if I'm used to fasting. Do you have any ideas what might be causing these? As a side note, I worked out for approximately 30 to 40 minutes five to six times per week, early in the morning, doing cardio or strength training. Thanks for your help.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Laurel. Thank you for your question. I have two ideas of what this might be. The first one is what I think it more likely might be. I would place a bet on electrolytes being a thing, especially the more that I research electrolytes. I've been listening to a lot of Robb Wolf's interviews for his company, LMNT, which we have partnered with before. I just think electrolytes can be a huge issue for a lot of people, especially on keto diets, especially while fasting. The fact that it goes away when you eat would probably speak even more to that. What I would suggest doing, Laurel, if you go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast, you can get a free sampler pack of LMNT. It includes four different flavors, they have way more than four flavors, but their sample pack includes four flavors. The raw unflavored version, which is included in that sample pack is clean fast friendly. I would get that, try that, and see if that resolves the headaches. I feel like it will. I'm feeling like it will. If it doesn't, then it's likely something else.

The other thing I was thinking it might be some sort of detox thing. It could be a recent exposure to something that you had, or it could be that you're going into the detox phase and something that you're detoxing is creating the headaches, and the reason that it goes away when you eat is that you're stopping your detox process. Those are my two thoughts. What do you think, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, the thing is that she's been doing this since 2018. I would say, okay, what is different now? I would find it to be very unusual that you've been fine since 2018, and now all of a sudden, your electrolytes are out of balance.

Melanie Avalon: I actually do, if I could just jump in really quickly, because that's one of the reasons they formulated it, is that they saw this a lot with people.

Gin Stephens: Like people were fine, and then all of a sudden, their electrolytes got out of balance?

Melanie Avalon: Well, for a lot of people, it's an issue right at the beginning, but for other people, it will become an issue later.

Gin Stephens: Why is that? Why does it become an issue? 2018 is a long time. She's not a baby faster. What would make someone who's been fat adapted since 2018 all of a sudden have trouble with electrolytes? I understand if she started a new workout regimen, and she's sweating more, or if it's like summertime. I can understand that, but that's where I'm puzzled.

Melanie Avalon: I'm not an expert on it. I can research this more but I imagine there are just so many lifestyle factors. Electrolytes are involved in so many things in our body.

Gin Stephens: Or, if she upped her water lately, that would do it.

Melanie Avalon: That was another reason I thought it might be that is that if she's upping her water.

Gin Stephens: Or even if she changed, maybe she used to be drinking San Pellegrino or a mineral water and now she switched to plain water. Maybe she's missing some minerals that she was getting or maybe she changed her salt that she uses. I don't know, I guess it could be something like that. Something may have changed, or something has changed. If you know suddenly she's having an issue, that's what I think with that. Also, Laurel, please do not assume that it's because of fasting. Even if every time you eat your headache stops, headaches that start out of nowwhere when nothing else has changed should not be ignored. I want you to go to your doctor and say, “Hey, I've all of a sudden started having headaches, and I didn't change anything else. Nothing is different.” There's likely-- there is a reason that you're having the headaches, and so it's time to get to the bottom of that.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, 100%. I would definitely give you electrolytes a try as well. Oh, I forgot. I want to touch on the skin tags thing.

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. Go ahead. I forgot to talk about that.

Melanie Avalon: I did too. Listeners might think that I'm going to say Beautycounter or something, but no. Skin tags, I think it's pretty well accepted that they are from insulin resistance.

Gin Stephens: Yes, they are. That's very commonly discussed.

Melanie Avalon: Aren't they benign tumors on the skin technically, isn’t that what they are?

Gin Stephens: I haven't thought about that. I don't know. I haven't read about what they are. I know that they are associated with insulin resistance. We hear it all the time that people lost their skin tags after they become more insulin sensitive after doing intermittent fasting. It usually corresponds like A1c going down and things like that. We have confirmation that their bodies are healing metabolically.

Melanie Avalon: It's awesome that they-- she said they were cleared up or gone.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, they just fall right off. I've heard this hundreds, thousands of times, we've heard this.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow. I didn't realize they did that.

Gin Stephens: They do. This is one of those things. You know how we talked last week about gallbladder? We don't hear that all the time, but we hear skin tags all the time. We know that is a thing. The next question we're getting ready to talk about also we hear, so we know it's a thing.

Melanie Avalon: Well, we can go right into that.

Gin Stephens: Alrighty.

Melanie Avalon: We have a question from Diane, the subject is “Hair Loss.” Diane says, “First, let me say I'm new to this, and I've learned so much from you, ladies, you're amazing. Please keep up the good work. My question is, if you're not doing keto, does one meal a day contribute to hair loss or thinning? I have hypothyroidism, so thin hair is an issue for me to start with. I do take super collagen with C and biotin, magnesium with a good multivitamin. To be honest, that's why I stopped doing keto was because my hair got so thin. I tried to eat a medium carb way of eating to avoid this. However, we keep trying to lose the weight to be healthy and look better but losing our hair definitely doesn't help that. I don't have this issue currently but I keep seeing posts in the One Meal a Day Facebook page, and this freaks me out to go through this again.”

Gin Stephens: The thing to keep in mind is that anything that your body perceives as a stressor can cause your body to begin the hair fall process. The name of that is telogen effluvium, if that is why hair falls out. If you are going through telogen effluvium, you may have hair fall issues from stress. It happened to me when I was doing the keto diet in the summer of 2014. My hair started falling out. Obviously, my body felt the keto diet was a stressor. Then I stopped doing keto, and my hair grew back in. Here's the thing though, I've done a good deal of reading about this, once the hair fall process starts, it's too late. It's already had the stress and it has to run its course. There's nothing you can do at that point to make it stop falling out, it just has to keep doing it. It just keeps pushing out those hairs and the new ones are going to come in, if that is the reason you're losing your hair. You said you're not losing your hair, Diane, but could intermittent fasting cause as well if your body perceives it to be a stress, it could, it could happen.

It's a two- to three-month process from the time the stressor. Really, if you see that your hair is starting to fall out, this for anybody, if your hair all of a sudden, starts to fall like crazy, count back two to three months and say what happened two to three months ago. It could be really anything. It could have been death of a family member, it could have been a serious illness that you went through. It could have been really radically changing your diet, like going keto. It could be starting intermittent fasting. By the time you notice it, it's already too late to stop it. That's what I have to say about that. It does grow back. I didn't mean to say that, sorry. It comes back. You just have to let it happen. What's funny, Melanie, I guess it's not funny, but even with me when I did it, I didn't really know what was happening. I was like, “Oh my God, keto’s make my hair fall out, I'm quitting.” You start taking things, like biotin, and all these things, and then you're like, “Look, it fixed my hair.” Well, actually, if you do nothing, your hair is going to start growing back.

Melanie Avalon: If you do nothing, and you have adequate nutrition.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's true. Yeah, what I'm saying is we were like, “Well, I started taking these hair and nail vitamins, that must have been the trick. Really, it's a process and you come out the other side.

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to be interviewing an author named Ann Louise. I don't know how you say her last name. I think it's Ann Louise Gittleman. She's a New York Times bestselling author, but she has a new book coming out called Radical Longevity. She actually has a chapter just on hair. She talks about, Gin, what you just mentioned that the telogen, how do you say, effluvium?

Gin Stephens: Effluvium, is how I would say it. It could be totally different. When I look at, it look like telogen effluvium.

Melanie Avalon: Normal hair has two different phases. It has the antigen phase, and then that telogen phase. A normal hair when we're not experiencing this intense stress, she said, it lasts four to six years, and the antigen phase, and then for two to four months, it's in the telogen phase. The telogen phase after that is when it's shed, and when people get telogen effluvium, 70% of your hair around that switches over really fast to the telogen phase and it often happens after an intense stressor. That's why you automatically can lose all of this hair, which is very-- that can sound really scary, but it's reassuring in a way because it doesn't necessarily mean that you're destined to lose all your hair for life. It just means that those hairs switched over to that face, which is a phase, they're all going to hit at some point.

Gin Stephens: They do it sooner and at the same time, but it really is terrifying. I can remember how scary it was. I was like, “What is happening?” It comes out a lot when it's happening. Then for about a year, my hair looked thinner I have the photos of me going through that period of time, and then you get a lot of little baby hairs that start growing back in. That'd be a good time to get some bangs because you're going to have them anyway. [laughs] You get these little tiny baby hairs growing back. Now, my hair is thicker than ever. Did intermittent fasting make me have thin hair for life? No, actually, it was keto that was the stressor for me, but it can be anything like that, like I said.

Melanie Avalon: It's really reassuring because, again, it doesn't mean you're destined for that. The nutrition though, and the stress is key. In the priority list of processes in our body, our hair is not high on the priority list for our body to maintain. When we're in a really intense stress event, or if the fasting that we're doing is being perceived as too much of a stress, the hair is something that can be expendable. That's a reason that can happen. Important nutrition for your hair, you want to make sure that you have enough protein, adequate iron levels, zinc, B vitamins, essential fatty acids. I do think concentrated nutrition to support hair can be key, and likely, when you are growing it back, you want the nutrition to support it. Again, everything I just mentioned with the protein, a lot of people actually benefit a lot from bone broth, MSM, silica, of course, addressing your stress levels.

This also might be something where you could work with a practitioner and do nutrient testing to see if you're lacking in certain minerals or nutrients. We do know that she has hypothyroidism, so that is linked to hair issues. I mean, hair loss is one of the main symptoms I feel of hypothyroidism. It can also be hormonal, so that would be where you'd want to work with a practitioner familiar with hormones and addressing that.

Gin Stephens: Don't be afraid that it's going to happen. I don't want anybody listening, like Diane said, “It's not happening to me, but I thought that it could, and now I'm really worried about it.” Ironically, stressing about the stress could cause the stress that leads to the stress. So, nobody worry about this. Don't worry about it.

Melanie Avalon: One of my really good friends right now who's my age is experiencing this and I feel so bad for her. It's been wrecking her, the amount of stress that she has about it on top of it, but she actually ordered-- this is something that the clinical trials have shown. If you have a Joovv device or if you have red light therapy, you can use that. They also make actual caps that concentrate the red light on your head, and she actually just ordered one of those. I'm really excited to see if it helps her. You can also do microneedling with stem cells and that has been shown to help. Can be pretty expensive, but it's definitely something to look into.

Hi friends, Gin and I talk about the importance of gut health all the time on this show. You guys know, we are obsessed with the gut microbiome. There's also a lot of confusion out there, surrounding probiotics. There are so many different probiotics. It can be so hard to know what to take. I personally have actually experimented with a lot of probiotics over the years, a lot. You guys know me. Did you know there's only one probiotic that I have consistently taken almost every single day since I found it? It's a non-negotiable. I see such radical improvements in my gut health, when I take this probiotic, and it's not just me, you guys, and my audience tell me all the time about how you feel this way as well. That is P3-OM. What is P3-OM? It's a patented probiotic that actually eats up excess sugar, eliminates bad bacteria fast, and protects your gut from inflammation and viruses. What initially made me so intrigued by this probiotic is that it is proteolytic. Meaning, it can actually digest protein. I, even saw a video on the BiOptimizers website of the probiotic digesting a steak. Yes, a steak.

P3-OM has also been shown to improve digestion, speed up metabolism, and increase energy throughout the day. What also makes it unique is that it can survive the gastrointestinal tract, and it goes through your whole body to support both your gut and your entire immune response. It's a secret weapon for reducing or eliminating bad gas and upgrading your immunity and protection against bad bacteria. It's personally one of my go-to tools in my biohacking arsenal.

And I have some fantastic news for you guys. You can get 10% off P3-OM right now, when you go to p3om.com/ifpodcast and type in the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. By the way, if you order it and it's not everything you hoped for, the BiOptimizers support team will give you all your money back, no questions asked. To get that discount, just go to p3om.com/ifpodcast to get a 10% discount on one of my favorite probiotics, P3-OM, with the coupon code IFPODCAST10. We'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Gin Stephens: We have a question from Cindus. That's a beautiful name. Is that how you would say it, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: I always think Cinda because of Cinderella.

Gin Stephens: She says, “I have a sensitive stomach. I've been trying to follow the low FODMAP, which is gluten free and no dairy products. Any recommendations? There is a lot of food that irritates me, I need to lose at least 50 pounds. Thank you, Cindus.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Cindus, thank you so much for your question. I'm actually pulling up my app right now because it's interesting because you said low FODMAP, which is gluten free and no dairy products. Dairy products are actually usually not that high in FODMAPs. That's a blanket statement, some are. I don't know if she's doing low FODMAP and no dairy, or if she's doing--

Gin Stephens: It sounds like she is. I think maybe I've read it with the wrong emphasis. She's doing low FODMAP, which is gluten free and no dairy products, I think I might have read the emphasis incorrectly.

Melanie Avalon: That makes sense. Recommendations, and she wants to lose at least 50 pounds. I will say that when you have a sensitive stomach and foods are being inflammatory for you. Actual fat loss aside, finding the foods that are not inflammatory for your body can actually have a huge effect on weight loss. That's exciting for two main reasons. One is that losing the actual water weight from the inflammation can be huge. Then also, an inflammatory state is counterproductive for weight loss just because of the signaling that's going on. So, I'm very excited for you, Cindus, to find the diet that works for you. My recommendations are to get my app. You can get that at melanieavalon.com/foodsenseguide because it has gluten, it has FODMAPs, it has 11 compounds total of foods that have compounds that can be potentially inflammatory for people, and then also has AIP, if you ever want to try an autoimmune paleo approach.

As far as how to approach this, when you're trying to figure out what foods are working for you, I think it can be very beneficial in the beginning to commit to the things that you want to test. If you're trying low FODMAP, do low FODMAP and know that it's going to be-- it might be temporary, it might not be for life, but it's just so that you can find those foods that are working for you, because when we're taking in a lot of factors when it comes to food, like a lot of different types of foods, it can be hard to ascertain what's working and what's not. If low FODMAP, gluten free, no dairy is what you want to try, then embracing it with excitement, get my app, find the foods that you love that fall within that category. Then research recipes for that. If you get my book What When Wine, I have 50 recipes in that book and a lot of them, they're all gluten free. Then they're noted if they're low FODMAP, and they are noted if they're dairy free, so there's ideas in there. You can join my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, and ask in there for recipe ideas, but I always think of it is really exciting because it's like, “Oh, I find the foods that you love, I love these foods, and there's so many fun things that you can try.” You also might benefit from supporting digestion with HCl, depending on how your actual digestion is going down. That can help break down proteins and fats pretty well. Also, digestive enzymes can help a lot of people. We work with BiOptimizers a lot and they make a really good HCl supplement. They also make MassZymes supplement that might help. Yeah, there's a lot of potential. For a code for BiOptimizers, they are also a supporter on this episode. In the show notes, find the timestamp for the BiOptimizers ad and there'll be a code in there for a discount. Gin, what are your thoughts?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I got nothing else to add to that.

Melanie Avalon: Quick reframe for people with sensitive stomachs. You can get excited because you're like the canary in the coalmine, or your stomach is like the canary in the coal mine and your stomach is telling you right away that food is not likely benefiting your health. So, it can be a nice thing.

Gin Stephens: You're listening to your body.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Right. Shall we do one more question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: All right. This question comes from Allie. The subject is “Autophagy and Me.” Allie says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie, I only recently stumbled upon your podcast and it is wonderfully informative. Thank you for all the information you provide during every show. I've been intermittent fasting since August 2020. I started IF not for the weight loss, but for the healing aspects. I am 36 years old and I have a rare autoimmune disease called granulomatosis with polyangiitis that I take medication for on a weekly basis. My end goal is to heal myself through IF so well that I won't need medication anymore. My question is, it seems in general, autophagy is not achieved unless a longer fast is done. That it is the next level unlocked after ketosis. I know I reach ketosis during my fast and I really want to help my body heal but I just don't want to fast for longer than 24 hours. It does not appeal to me.

Longer fasting seems to be the best route to obtaining autophagy. I usually fast for 20:4 every day and I feel it is a good balance for me. I know everyone's journey is different. I am wondering if my journey of self-healing can only be accomplished if I do a longer fasts such as 24 hours plus, healing occurs during ketosis. Autophagy on a whole different level of healing, my concern is that I'm not optimizing my best options to get to my end goal of no medications, just looking for the best route. Can I still reach autophagy level healing if I only reach ketosis level over an extended period of time, if that makes sense? For example, if I continue just doing 20:4 fasts every day, will eventually have the same amount of healing as if I were to incorporate a 24 plus hour fast into my routine once or twice a week? I know the longer I continue my IF journey, the more healing can happen. Will slow and steady win this race for me too? Thanks.”

Gin Stephens: This question, Allie, shows the level of confusion that's out in the world about autophagy. There's one graphic that is just so terrible that people have been sharing for years. It used to be a typed piece of paper and there’s was a photocopy everyone was sharing, or a screenshot of it or something. Then people made it pretty, it was the same exact information from that typed piece of paper, but someone made it into like graphics, and it said, “Autophagy begins at 24 hours.” That is not true. [laughs] Autophagy is not like that.

First of all, let's think about autophagy and what it is. It is the way our bodies scrounge around for old stuff hanging around when we've got no new things coming in. It's natural, it's what our bodies are supposed to do. Do you think that our bodies have processes in place that require us to fast for 24, 36, 48 hours? No. Our body is supposed to be able to do what it needs to do when it needs to do, just in and out. For some reason, the misconception here in your question is that there's a timeline like, “Oop, now I'm in ketosis. Oop, autophagy comes later.” That's not how it works. Autophagy and ketosis happen in the same state of nothing coming in.

Instead of a light switch, imagine you've got two dimmer switches, maybe and instead of just on off, it's like you're going up and down. Ketosis and autophagy are happening in the same state, they're not the same thing. Autophagy is one thing, ketosis is another thing. But when one is ramping up, the other is ramping up at the same time. Everybody experiences autophagy, even people who are not fasting. The misconception of unless you're fasting 24, 36, 48 hours, you have zero autophagy is so incorrect. But we have increased autophagy that goes along with the state of ketosis because they both happen when you get to that same state in the body, that fasted state when your body has to start rummaging around. Your cells start rummaging around for those junky proteins, that's autophagy. Your body starts to dig into your fat stores to fuel your brain, that's ketosis. But they're all happening at the same time. There was something else I was going to say, and I forgot what it was, but maybe I'll remember.

Melanie Avalon: It makes sense why she thinks this because it is the way it's put out there like you were saying. She thinks that it's ketosis, and then autophagy. When actually, if anything, it's the reverse because ketosis is not happening 24/7. Autophagy is happening 24/7.

Gin Stephens: That's true. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: There is some level of autophagy always happening.

Gin Stephens: But if you're eating all the time, it slows it down. Oh, I know what I was going to say, I thought of it. A lot of things increase autophagy, fasting is one of them. Coffee is linked to increase autophagy. Exercise is linked to increase autophagy. So, if you want to have increased autophagy, drink some coffee while walking on a treadmill during the fast, I'm making a joke there, but you get my point.

Melanie Avalon: I have written down. I had written down, exercise, coffee.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] Yeah, I knew that I had something else in my brain. I'm glad I found that again.

Melanie Avalon: For listeners who are not familiar, we just jumped right into it. Autophagy is basically when your body finds old broken proteins in your body and basically breaks them down, recycles them, to create new things. It's a really great cleanup process for your body. Like we said, it's going on 24/7, to some extent. It just ramps up significantly with fasting, ramps up in exercise, coffee supports it. Everything Gin said is spot on and exactly what I was going to say. Only two things I would add would be, if you want to get heightened autophagy while still maintaining a 24-hour fast, you could do a day. She doesn't mention what she's eating. That was actually the second of the two things, so I'll just say them both.

She's talking about wanting to recover or put her autoimmune disease into remission, which I completely support, and I think that's wonderful, your goals about getting off of the medication. I don't know at all what you're eating, but I would make that a primary focus and the healing aspect. If it's just fasting, I don't know that everybody-- if they're eating foods in their eating window that are in favor of-- I don't know if encouraging is the right word, but encouraging the autoimmune disease. I don't know fasting alone would be enough to reverse it. So, I would definitely, definitely take a look at your food choices if you haven't already. Again, I already mentioned that app, Food Sense Guide, but it does have autoimmune paleo approach, which a lot of people find shocking success in reversing autoimmune conditions. So, that might be something to try. Again, the link for that is melanieavalon.com/foodsenseguide. That was the one thing.

The second thing was, if you did want to get heightened autophagy, you could do a day where your eating window is very, very low protein. I'm not encouraging this please, listeners, friends. I'm not saying do low-protein diet in general. I'm not saying do this every day. I think a higher protein diet is super, super important for so many things, health, body composition, weight loss, just so many things, but the occasional day of very low protein will ramp up autophagy, especially if you're combining it with fasting. If you want to do a little hack and try to get an autophagy day without fasting longer, that's what I would suggest doing, especially since autophagy seems to be something she wants to play with. Any other thoughts, Gin?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that all sounds good.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you'd like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes which I feel like are very important for today's show, those will be at ifpodcast.com/episode210. You can follow us on Instagram, see my pictures of the cryotherapy. Oh, my goodness. You can see Gin's cats and Gin's food [laughs] and Gin's house. Yeah, anything else, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this was absolutely wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right, talk to you then. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Apr 18

Episode 209: Social Media Management, Easy Insulin Testing, Bile, The Gallbladder, Cholesterol, Long-Term IF, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 209 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

INSIDETRACKER: Get The Blood And DNA Tests You Need To Be Testing, Personalized Dietary Recommendations, An Online Portal To Analyze Your Bloodwork, Find Out Your True "Inner Age," And More! Listen To My Interview With The Founder Gil Blander At Melanieavalon.Com/Insidetracker! Go To insidetracker.com/melanie To Get 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Support Your Gut Health With A Patented, Proteolytic, Anti-Viral, Superstar Probiotic, P3OM! Go To p3om.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

JOOVV: Like intermittent fasting, red light therapy can benefit the body on so many levels! It literally works on the mitochondrial level to help your cells generate more energy! Red light can help you burn fat (including targeted fat burning and stubborn fat!), contour your body, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, produce collagen for epic skin, support muscle recovery, reduce joint pain and inflammation, combat fatigue, help you sleep better, improve mood, and so much more!! These devices are literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To Joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - INSIDETRACKER: Go To insidetracker.com/melanie To Get 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

3:15 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order!

Delay, Don't Deny Social Network

Change Is In The Air

IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life

Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon 

Lumen Lovers: Biohack Your Carb And Fat Burning (With Melanie Avalon)

24:15 - BIOPTIMIZERS: Go To p3om.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

26:35 - Listener Feedback: Sarah - Insulin Testing

33:40 - Listener Q&A: Catherine - Gallbladder and Fasting

Effects of fasting on the composition of gallbladder bile

50:05 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

54:05 - Listener Q&A: Celeste - Crashing When my Window Opens

58:05 - Listener Q&A: Amber - 15 hour fast?

1:01:45 - Listener Q&A: Jennifer - Long Term Intermittent Fasting

#1624 – Mark Sisson

TRANSCRIPT


Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 209 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I wanted to tell you about one of the most incredible resources for taking charge of your blood tests and lab work, ever. I am a huge fan of a company called InsideTracker. They are actually a David Sinclair-partnered company. What they do is they provide access to the blood tests that you need to be testing, as well as interpretations so that you can figure out what that all means. Basically, we often go to our doctor, we get blood tests, we test things, but is it what we need to be testing? What does it even mean? That's what InsideTracker is here for.

They've done extensive testing to figure out which blood markers can tell you the most about your actual health. These aren't necessarily all the tests that you might expect. They provide personalized interpretations of those results along with dietary and lifestyle recommendations so that you can truly take charge of your health. Their InnerAge, for example, analyzes your blood work to determine your true “inner age” and how to lower it. I did it recently and thankfully, my inner age was lower than my actual chronological age, but there were still some things that I could work on. So, InsideTracker has really helped me meet my goals in that way.

They've also got DNA testing, as well as one of my favorite things, which is their online portal. Guys, this online portal is a game changer. It includes your results from InsideTracker, but then you can upload all of your own data from any other blood results that you've had through your doctor, so helpful. You just go into the portal, you drop in your lab results, and then you have all their lab results all in one place. It's so easy to see how things have changed over time, and they interpret these lab results from other companies by their standards. It is so helpful. I cannot even describe how much I use this platform.

If you'd like to learn more about them, as well as all about bloodwork testing, definitely check out my interview I did with the founder, Gil Blander. That's at melanieavalon.com/insidetracker. InsideTracker also has an amazing offer just for my audience. It was 20%, I asked if it could be 30%, and they said yes. They are so amazing. If you go to melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker, you can use the coupon code, MELANIE30, to get 30% off sitewide. Yes, 30% off sitewide, melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker, with the coupon code, MELANIE30. That’s M-E-L-A-N-I-E 30, I'll put all of this information in the show notes.

One more thing before you jump in. Are you concerned about aging? Well, thankfully, fasting is super incredible for its anti-aging benefits. It activates genes in your body called sirtuins, which repair your body and help extend lifespan. Also, during the fast, your body can clean up a lot of harmful chemicals which may be taxing your detoxification systems. In fact, the reason people go gray is because their detox systems start producing a lot of hydrogen peroxide when dealing with toxins. Do you know where a lot of those chemicals come from? Your skincare and makeup. As it turns out, there are thousands of compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup that Europe has banned due to their toxic nature and the US has banned less than 10. When you put these on your skin every single day through your skincare makeup, you're adding to your body's burden and likely aging your skin faster.

Thankfully, you can easily clean up your skincare with a company called Beautycounter. They make incredible products that are extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can feel good about every single ingredient that you put on. They also have an amazing antiaging line called Countertime. Friends, this is a game-changer. It's full of active ingredients which nourish and support your skin, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, and support a beautiful glow. It also has a safe alternative to retinol, so you can get all of the anti-aging benefits of retinol without any of the toxic effects of retinol, because, yes, that stuff is toxic. Guys, put it away now.

You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. If you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. Also, definitely get on my clean beauty email list that's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away so many free things on that list. definitely check it out.

Lastly, if you anticipate making safe skincare a part of your future, just like Gin and I do? Definitely become a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for safe skincare. You get 10% back on all of your purchases, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that costs way more than the price of the membership. It's completely worth it. So, friends, are you fasting clean inside and out? You can with Beautycounter. Again, that link is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 209 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am fabulous, and got a lot going on.

Melanie Avalon: What do you have going on?

Gin Stephens: Well, you already know but I'm going to share it here for the first time. Although, gosh, this is coming out-- this is the April 19th episode, so we're three weeks ahead approximately, recording it three weeks before it comes out. By the time it comes out, a lot of listeners will already know this news, because I'm announcing it officially tomorrow. Tomorrow is March 29th in the real world, because we're three weeks in the past here recording, but I am officially leaving Facebook tomorrow, March 29th. It's also Cal's birthday, he will be 23. That's just a coincidence.

Melanie Avalon: Wow, that's big.

Gin Stephens: It is big. I didn't make this decision lightly. I know some people are going to wake up tomorrow and see my announcement and be like, “What has just happened?” I actually wrote a blog post about it, and it's going to drop overnight. For anybody who hasn't heard this news, or maybe you heard about it, but you didn't read my blog post yet, I want you to go to ginstephens.com. Go to the blog post area, and it's called Change is in the Air, unless I decided to call it something else between now and tomorrow when it goes live, but right now, it's Change is in the Air. I really poured my heart into that blog post. I'm going to try not to cry. Gosh, I feel so emotional about this. I feel the tears like welling up and so I'm going to take a deep breath and try to not get emotional. I've reflected on all the time-- I've been on Facebook since 2008. Do you remember when you joined?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I think we talked about this. Yep. It was around 2008 for me as well.

Gin Stephens: Okay. Well, just like everybody else, I used it as a casual user, but then in 2015, when I started my first group, my usage really changed. What's that they say on top of really long things? Too long didn't read, TLDR, you know what I'm talking about? TLDR, that little abbreviation.

Melanie Avalon: I know that abbreviation, I don't know what it means.

Gin Stephens: It means too long, didn't read or something like that. It's basically a one-sentence summary. Basically, I realized-- really not just recently, but over the past few years, I've realized that I haven't been fully present in my life, because of Facebook. It's been like this huge Catch-22. I love the work I've done on Facebook since 2015 with my intermittent fasting communities, I love it so much. I love supporting members and helping them and providing a safe place for them to get together and form a community. Yet, 16 hours of my day, all the time of the day when I'm not asleep, it's in my mind. Like it never sleeps. Facebook never sleeps, even if I'm sleeping, Facebook isn't sleeping. The pressure to be there and be in the groups and respond to everybody and the pending posts, it's heavy.

I've known for years, like I said, that I couldn't do this for the rest of my life. I could not spend 16 hours a day every day on Facebook. In the past year, I've started a third podcast and I'm working on a new book. I also want to have some time to talk to my husband or whatever else I want to do. I just realized that Facebook's got to go for my own mental well-being. Anyway, I encourage people to go find that blog post and read it all the way through because Facebook has just been such a part of my identity. It's what I do. It's how I spend all my time. For the past week, knowing that this is coming, I've been purposely trying to put my phone down, and my brain is looking for it. Does that sound crazy?

Melanie Avalon: No, not at all.

Gin Stephens: Like, “I’ve got to look, got to see, got to check, are there pending posts?” I'm like, “No, stop. Stop. Stop doing that.” Here's the part, that's the hardest and the part that has literally kept me up at night. I have not slept well-- I wasn't sure what I was going to do even a couple weeks ago. I started the Delay, Don't Deny Social Network. That was multifaceted, part of it was, of course, because as I've already shared, I was concerned about trusting my entire platform to Facebook, everything I've built. But then, I started thinking, “Do I really need to be on Facebook 16 hours a day?” This whole multifaceted, moving off of Facebook to a new platform that's just us, taking control of the platform. But also, it's not a place where I need to be from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to bed, so I'm going to be able to check in periodically. Like first thing in the morning after I get my coffee, I can spend some time there. Then later in the day, maybe I can go there again, but not feeling like I have to go every 10 minutes. It's almost like I feel like I'm withdrawing from a drug, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no. It sounds like that combined with moving.

Gin Stephens: Maybe I also want to say the hardest part of this, I started to say and then I got sidetracked, is the groups. I've had these groups, the Advanced group and the One Meal A Day group are the groups where I started, the One Meal A Day group started in 2015. It's where I met you.

Melanie Avalon: I know.

Gin Stephens: We have a whole community there. There's certain people that are well loved in that community. The Advanced group, that group’s about 30,000 members, and everyone there has read at least one of my books and so that they are my people, and I love them. But I don't think that anyone realizes how much of my life that it takes to run them. I just don't think they do. Maybe they do, but maybe they don't. But it's not something I can turn over to moderators and say, “All right, run the Advanced group, run the One Meal A Day group.” It's just too much. I mean, I can't ask volunteers to spend 16 hours a day managing these groups.

Melanie Avalon: How does it look different, the management and all of that?

Gin Stephens: Going forward? Well, I am actually archiving the Advanced group and the One Meal A Day group. What archiving means is, I click a button, and from that point going forward, nobody is able to post or comment or put a mad face on the fact that I just archived the group or cry face with the-- people are going to be sad, I get it. No one can respond or comment or do anything, but the content is still there, which is so important to me. You can still go in and search your question. You've got a question about anything, you put it in the search bar, and old posts will come up, and you'll be able to read. There's still a huge resource of information. You can find success stories there. It's just it freezes it in time. You want to see what people ate for dinner three months ago? It's still going to be there in the One Meal A Day group. We just aren't going to be adding any new content. That's the hardest part. That's the part that's kept me up at night, is how do I--

You know the song, Hotel California? “You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.” That is how I have felt about Facebook. I've built this huge thing, and now I am trapped by it. I'm trapped and consumed, and it's a good thing, but anything good can just be also too much. Does that make sense? [sighs] I hope that people hear what I'm saying about it and how hard this decision was for me. But the main group, the Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting support group, that group has over 300,000 members and we're not closing that one down. The moderators are going to continue to manage that one. We changed the way that group was managed in the summer of 2020 when it got really clear that we couldn't manage 300,000 people. We were having over 1000 posts a day. Did I ever tell the story about how I started crying when I was trying to make dinner?

Melanie Avalon: I think so.

Gin Stephens: I don't know if I told you on the podcast or just to you. There was one night over the summer or spring, maybe just over a year ago from today, when I was trying to make dinner, Chad said, “Is it time for dinner?” I'm like, “Yeah, I'll make dinner as soon as I can get these pending posts under control.” When I started, I don't remember the exact number. Let's say it was 32. I don't know, that's just-- 32 pending posts. When you had the pending posts, you had to go in and you had to approve them and then you had to make a comment on them. Sometimes though, you didn't need to approve them, like if they were, “Can I have lemon in my water?” If we approved every one of those, that's all the feed would have been. We would actually give personalized responses to those. We would decline them, but we would decline with feedback. We would say, “Sorry, lemon is not part of a clean fast. Please go check out blah, blah, blah resource,” but it took a lot of time for each post. We didn't just decline randomly. We gave feedback to everyone personally or we would add comments, we spend a lot of time on those posts.

I started, we had, let's just say, like I said, 32. I worked for about 20 minutes. At the end of that 20 minutes, we had more posts than when I had started, we were up to like 35. I just burst into tears and said to Chad, I said, “I can't keep this up.” It's like trying to throw the ocean back in, whereas the waves keep coming in, the tide is rising. I could not get the number of pending posts to zero so I could go cook dinner.

Melanie Avalon: Reminds me of, what's that computer game with blocks fall and you--?

Gin Stephens: Tetris?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: It was very much like Tetris. In June, we changed the way that group worked, and it made such a difference. We still provide support there in the daily Ask a Moderator thread. Instead of having thousand separate posts a day, people just come and they ask a question, “Can I have lemon in in my water?” And we can answer it. We are still providing support to people through that community. I told the moderators, I said, “As long as this provides you with joy and you love it, we will keep this group running indefinitely.” They pop in, they don't go every 10 minutes like me. They pop in, they answer the questions in between their lives when they have time. We also have the Delay Don’t Deny social network. As I said, I am going to be there but not every 10 minutes. I'm in the 28 Day FAST Start group where people who are new to intermittent fasting, and that's my love is supporting people when they're getting started, so they can come in and ask questions, I'll answer them all. The Ask Gin group, people can ask me questions there. I'm really enjoying the personal interactions but without feeling like I'm playing Tetris or trying to manage something that's unmanageable.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Well, my heart's racing just talking about it. Will I sleep tonight? I don't know. Everybody, please just understand why I'm making these changes in my life. One day, I'm going to have grandkids and I'm not going to be that grandma who's like, “Okay, now it's time for me to look at Facebook again for the--” I'm so grateful for all the years on Facebook and all of the people I've connected with, and the Delay Don’t Deny Social Network is going to be smaller. We have half a million combined members in the Facebook groups, half a million combined members.

Melanie Avalon: It's insane.

Gin Stephens: It's insane. I can't personally mentor half a million people as hard as I try and as much as I want to. Because the groups are so connected with me, I can't just walk away and leave them to go wild. Does that make sense? People don't realize how much careful moderation goes on behind the scenes to make sure they're a positive and supportive community. I can't just walk away and stop doing that. It can't keep going the way it was. Anyway, it's a big turning point. I hope that people understand from my heart, why I'm making these decisions. If they want to join us on the DDD Social Network, we'd love to have them, don't feel pressured like you have to. But that's where I'll be, but just not 16 hours a day. [laughs] I will answer your question within 24 hours, probably even sooner. [sighs]

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm excited for you. Tomorrow is a new dawn.

Gin Stephens: It is. I'm going to also not look at Messenger because I can just imagine. Some people aren't going to be happy with me.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I anticipate that happening.

Gin Stephens: I just don't know how much support am I expected to provide for the rest of my life. 16 hours a day, I just can't. I can't physically and emotionally do it.

Melanie Avalon: Well, for listeners, the show notes for this episode will be at ifpodcast.com/209. We will put links to Gin’s blog post, so you can read that. We'll put links to her new social network.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, Delay Don’t Deny, dddsocialnetwork.com.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, so you can join there.

Gin Stephens: We have almost 3000 members there already. I don't want it to have half a million members. Maybe it will, I don't know, but they could just ask me questions in Ask Gin and 28 Day FAST Star and I could just focus on supporting those beginners and [laughs] answering those questions.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Then I will clarify, I still have my Facebook groups, so you can still join my Facebook groups.

Gin Stephens: You can even still join mine. I just won't be there. The Delay Don’t Deny Intermittent Fasting Support Group. You can ask the mods in the daily Ask a Moderator thread, but you cannot ask Gin.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. There's that one.

Gin Stephens: There's another place for asking Gin, yes.

Melanie Avalon: There's that one, you still have the one for your other podcast?

Gin Stephens: We still have that group, but Sheri’s going to manage it. I am taking Facebook off of my phone, I am not going to be checking in. It is not a place I'm going to be. I'm going to be more present in my life. Like I said, I'm going to be intentional about the time that I spend on the Delay Don’t Deny Social Network. I'm going to go there, and I'm going to answer the questions that are for me. I'm going to look around and spread cheer throughout the live feed and see what's going on. But because it doesn't have pending posts, nothing to be accepted, people are just there posting and living and doing. It doesn't require the degree of time for me on the admin side, if that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, 100%.

Gin Stephens: Also, we've never had a reported post yet. We have those all the time on Facebook. We did have one reported post, I'm going to take that back. I made a joke about something and people didn't understand it was a joke. Once they understood it was a joke, no one reported it anymore.

Melanie Avalon: I think I mentioned this last time, or probably not because I don't know if we talked. No, we talked about a little bit.

Gin Stephens: We were off air, maybe.

Melanie Avalon: My groups are still at a nice place where we don't really have issues.

Gin Stephens: How many people?

Melanie Avalon: The main one is IF Biohackers and we almost have 9000.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's a good number. That's about how many we have in the Life Lessons Podcast group.

Melanie Avalon: I hope it stays this way. Everybody is just so kind and understanding and we just have very little drama, and you can talk about anything, biohacking, anything, diet, health, fitness lifestyle, there's so many random questions. I'm waiting for it to get--

Gin Stephens: A little more dramatic?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, but it's really, really great. The other day somebody posted and they said how they were a little bit overwhelmed, because they don't understand what all the different acronyms for different things mean. They just feel like they can't understand anything. Then, it got 20 comments, and everybody was like, everybody's so nice, they were like, “Just ask and we'll tell you.”

Gin Stephens: I don't want to give the impression that the Advanced group is a hotbed of horribleness. It's not, it's an amazing group. 99.9% of the interactions that go on in there are amazing, and people are helpful, and people are supportive. I love being there. It's really more of the difficult situations occurred in the regular group before we changed the post process to have you to Ask a Mod, that was where we had put out a lot of fires. The One Meal A Day group still sometimes goes a little rogue here and there, as much as we love them. We do sometimes people will pop up that have been there since 2016, and they're like something wacky will pop out. We're like, “Where did you come from?” [laughs] They don't know anything about us. They just have been there, maybe not coming and something weird will happen. The Advanced group has been amazing, and I love them, which is why it is so hard to make this decision. That's why I lost the sleep over it because I both don't want to close the group down and archive it, but yet desperately need to for my mental health. That's the Catch-22 and that's why it felt like the Hotel California.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that makes sense. The other two groups I have because I have a Lumen, Biosense, CGM group, but I have really great moderators in there, they mostly run that one. Then, I have the Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare, which is still my little boutique group, so we're almost at 1000 members, but it's been great. Well, so for listeners, again, the show notes, we'll put links to everything, and I'm excited to see how things go. I'm excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Well, I just really hope people are not just so mad at me and like, “Now, I hate you forever, Gin.” “Gin, you're terrible. You're a bad person.” Please don't think that.

Melanie Avalon: Haters going to hate. There's a lot of really wonderful people, so we can focus on that.

Gin Stephens: Let's do. I've just loved this time, but it has been so much of my time.

Hi friends, Gin and I talk about the importance of gut health all the time on this show. You guys know, we are obsessed with the gut microbiome. There's also a lot of confusion out there surrounding probiotics. There are so many different probiotics, it can be so hard to know what to take. I personally have actually experimented with a lot of probiotics over the years. A lot, you guys know me. Did you know there's only one probiotic that I have consistently taken almost every single day, since I found it, it's a non-negotiable. I see such radical improvements in my gut health, when I take this probiotic. And it's not just me, you guys, and my audience tell me all the time about how you feel this way as well. That is P3-OM. What is P3-OM? It's a patented probiotic that actually eats up excess sugar, eliminates bad bacteria fast, and protects your gut from inflammation and viruses. What initially made me so intrigued by this probiotic is that it is proteolytic meaning it can actually digest protein. I even saw a video on the BiOptimizers website of the probiotic digesting a steak. Yes, a steak.

P3-OM has also been shown to improve digestion, speed up metabolism, and increase energy throughout the day. What also makes it unique is that it can survive the gastrointestinal tract, and it goes through your whole body to support both your gut and your entire immune response. It's a secret weapon for reducing or eliminating bad gas, and upgrading your immunity and protection against bad bacteria. It's personally one of my go-to tools in my biohacking arsenal. I have some fantastic news for you guys. You can get 10% off P3-OM right now when you go to p3om.com/ifpodcast and type in the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. By the way, if you order it and it's not everything you hoped for, the BiOptimizers support team will give you all your money back, no questions asked. To get that discount, just go to p3om.com/ifpodcast to get a 10% discount on one of my favorite probiotics, P3-OM, with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10, and we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's get started.

Melanie Avalon: To start things off, we have some feedback. This comes from Sarah. The subject is “Insulin Testing.” Sarah says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I just got my fasting insulin tested for the first time and I wanted to share with your other listeners how to do it easily and quickly. It's something I've wanted to do for a long time, but didn't want to go to the doctor and do the whole bloodwork panel and have to potentially argue with my doctor about why I wanted fasting insulin, etc.” Can I pop in something really quick, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Yes. I actually saw the doctor on Friday, I think, for just an annual checkup. The nurse that I was with, she was so receptive to testing everything that I wanted to test, so I got fasted insulin. When I went to test it, I went in right before the close to like 5 to Quest or LabCorp or one of those places. She was like, “Are you fasting?” I was like, “Yes.” She was like, “Are you sure you're fasting?” I was like, “Yes.” She was like, “It's really late.” I was like, “I know.”

Melanie Avalon: “Let me tell you what my job is. I have a podcast called The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, so guess what?”

Gin Stephens: I said, “Well, I practice intermittent fasting as a lifestyle”. She goes, “What?” I go, “Never mind.” Good times, but then they told me that I don't know why-- they said the fasting insulin won't be accurate at that time. I don't know. In any case, moving back to the question to Sarah's feedback. She says, “A long time ago, Gin mentioned on the podcast that one of her friends was using Walk-in Labs, that's exactly what I did. I went to walkinlabs.com and I bought just the fasting insulin test. It was $25 from Quest Diagnostics and $40 from LabCorp. Then I just found a location near me, walked in, got my test, and the next day got my results, it was super-duper easy and quick. On a more unfortunate note, my fasting insulin is 13.8. Yikes. I've been intermittent fasting and an average of 19 to 20 hours daily for almost four years, but my blood sugars are a little high in the 90s, low 100s. I recently gained 20 pounds and have so far been unable to lose it. I'm going to do my best to go low carb for a while and see what happens.

I reintroduced meat into my diet four months ago after realizing I've been getting only about 20 to 50 grams of protein a day for the past three years, but I kept my other higher carb habits and I think those didn't mesh well with a new higher protein/fat intake. The experiment continues. Very glad to finally have a fasting insulin measurement that I can track. Thanks for continuing to share your knowledge and wisdom on the pod.” All righty. Do you have feedback about this, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, yeah, 13.8 is high, although I'm not sure, it might fall into the “normal range,” how they say, “That's normal,” but it's really very far from optimum. That's what 13.8 would be. You want it to be down closer to 5 or 6.

Melanie Avalon: The standard reference range, they say less than 25. I think in Dr. Benjamin Bikman’s book, he recommends less than 6, I think.

Gin Stephens: Yes, that's exactly right.

Melanie Avalon: Ideally, even I think, like 4 or less.

Gin Stephens: Mine's less than 5. The day that I got mine done, I had coffee and I shouldn't have, and I would didn't even pay attention to what I was doing. I was like, “Oh gosh, why did I just drink that coffee?” So, mine could actually normally be lower in the fasted state. Coffee, of course, causes your liver to dump out glycogen. When you have increased blood glucose, you may have some insulin go up to manage that. If I ever do it again, I'm going to do it with zero black coffee, I’d be interested to see. As far as, Sarah, your numbers go, even with all of those years of intermittent fasting, you're right to focus on diet. We've talked before about Mastering Diabetes, that's a different paradigm, so you could try it this way for a while with the lower carb approach. If you don't find that improves it, you may want to try the Mastering Diabetes 180 way of managing it because either they are finding a lot of success with this as well. Theirs is a low-fat higher carb approach.

Melanie Avalon: It sounds like she really upped her protein and fat, like she says, but she kept in all of her carbs as well. Right now, she's basically high carb, high fat, high protein, which I think that combination works for not that many people for metabolic health, basically having all high of all of the macros.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's certainly not going to help correct a problem. It works really well for me as far as the way that I eat day to day. I'm certainly very healthy. But I'm not trying to lower my insulin, I'm not trying to lower my fat, does that make sense? I'm at a great place. But if you know you've got something to work on-- if I knew I needed to lose some weight, I would do some changes to that.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm happy that she said she brought back meat and was trying to upper protein because she realized she was low in protein. Focusing on raising protein, in my opinion and from a lot of the people I've interviewed and research that I've done, is going to have the most probably beneficial metabolic effects as far as satiety and muscle maintenance and not being a fuel substrate that encourages a state of energy toxicity like Marty Kendall talks about. But then, next to the protein, you basically have two options between the fat and the carbs and gravitating to one or the other can work wonders for a lot of people for getting to a place of better metabolic health. Since she wants to try low carb and she hasn't really tried it yet, I definitely encourage that. Try that, see how it goes. Then if it doesn't work, you can try the flip side and try the high carb, low fat, lower fat but high protein approach. I think there's a lot of potential here in making changes.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I think so too.

Melanie Avalon: That's really great to know about how easy it was for her to get the fasting insulin test.

Gin Stephens: I know. I love that part too. I think that is going to really help other people. Then, people can get the test and then see when you know, then you can address that. Because she said that she had recently gained 20 pounds and hasn't been able to lose it, so this high fasting insulin level can certainly help explain some of that. We hear all sorts of things from people. They'll be like, “I was unable to lose weight, no matter what I did. Then I found out I had blah, blah, blah.” You could fill in the blank. Anything from breast cancer, we've heard people say, “I couldn't lose any weight, then I found out I had breast cancer, and then we addressed that.” Our bodies are doing other things that we don't always know about, high fasted insulin level, you could have so many things going on behind the scenes. The inability to lose weight is a signal that there's something else wrong.

Melanie Avalon: All right, shall we jump into some questions?

Gin Stephens: Yes. All right. We have a question from Katherine and the subject is “Gallbladder and Fasting.” “Hi, Melanie and Gin. Hello from Australia.” I feel like we should read these in an accent. Although I can't. I can't.

Melanie Avalon: Go for it. [laughs] Go for it.

Gin Stephens: I don't know why but whenever I try to have a foreign accent, it sounds like I'm in Jamaica.

Melanie Avalon: That's where you end up.

Gin Stephens: I can only do a Jamaican accent apparently, like, “Hello, Maan.” I don't know. That's all I can do. I cannot do an Australian accent or an English accent, or an Irish accent. I'll just read it like myself. She says, “Firstly, thank you so much for all the work you both do in helping the rest of us learn about fasting and help. I've been fasting for about 18 months, now mostly around 18:6, but sometimes less and sometimes more. Have plateaued in the past six months, but I recognize I probably need to tweak the old eating patterns. My current issue is that I have gallstones diagnosed some time ago. Issue started several years ago. I just turned 60, so I'm unfortunately right in the age bracket where old gally can start playing up. This has been happening to me lately. I've been reading up about this and there seems to be some research suggesting fasting is not great for the gallbladder. That makes me very sad as no way do I want to give up the fasting, as I usually feel a lot better than I used to. Less general inflammation, more energy, and of course that initial weight loss which I've managed to maintain even throughout COVID lockdown. I'd also like to shed at least another 5 to 10 kilos in order to get back into my healthy weight range. My question is, what are your thoughts about fasting and the gallbladder? Be interesting to hear your take on this issue and to know if others with gallbladder issues have success or issues with fasting. Is there perhaps a threshold of fasting duration where the gallbladder may be more severely impacted? Whilst I'd like to increase my fasting time to help get the weight loss moving again, I don't want to ever do it an upset old gally.” I love that. That makes me smile. The gallbladder, old gally or golly, maybe it's old golly. “Be keen to hear your thoughts. Thanks for reading. Cheers, Kath, from Victoria, Australia. “

Melanie Avalon: All right. Kath, thank you so much for your question. This idea has been popularized by Dr. Valter Longo at the University of Southern California, fight on. Which by the way, I don't think I told you, Gin. Did I tell you he's coming on my show?

Gin Stephens: I'm not sure if you did. You got so many people coming on the show. I can't keep track. I'm not surprised.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I've been emailing his assistant, he's a little bit harder to lock down, but we've been emailing and talking about what he wants to talk about. In any case, Gin and I actually interviewed him.

Gin Stephens: A long time ago, 2017?

Melanie Avalon: Maybe ‘18, was it? I don't know, it was a while ago. It was when his first book came out, or his only book, it's when his book came out. In any case, he is the creator of the fasting mimicking diet. He does a lot of research in fasting mimicking diets and fasting in humans, and is considered one of the go-to authorities on fasting, just as far as from a research perspective. He is very vocal, at least last time I checked, about intermittent fasting’s potentially negative role on the gallbladder and encouraging gallstones. I'm definitely going to ask him about this when I interview him, for sure. I was shocked. I thought this would be way easier to find research on than it was. I was like, “Oh, I'm going to go to Google Scholar, I'm going to find all these fasting studies about the gallbladder and there will be an answer.” I found very little information. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Can I just summarize it? There's two things that I know are true about the gallbladder and fasting.

Melanie Avalon: Sure.

Gin Stephens: These are two risk factors. Let me rephrase it. There are two risk factors for having gallbladder trouble.

Melanie Avalon: Low-fat diet?

Gin Stephens: If you were overweight, or if you lose that weight. Those are two, there are more, but two risk factors are being overweight and losing the weight, no matter how you lose it.

Melanie Avalon: That's really interesting.

Gin Stephens: You're like darned if you do and darned if you don’t. Everything I've read, if you're overweight, you're more likely to have gallbladder trouble. If you're actively losing weight, you're more likely to have gallbladder trouble, so you cannot win when it comes to the gallbladder. That's my research in a nutshell, or never have gained it to start with, but you can't go back in time and not have gained it.

Melanie Avalon: It's really interesting, because the whole idea of gallstones, I feel they come up in so many different books and authorities and researchers I talked to, and depending on who you're talking to, they'll say the cause of the gallstone is a different thing. When I interviewed Richard Jacoby recently, it was sugar. When I interviewed Susan Owens, it was-- or Sally Norton, one of them. They both work with oxalates. It was oxalates. I interviewed Dr. Campbell-McBride for the GAPS diet, she thinks it's related to, I don't even remember, bacteria. There's all these different thoughts about what it might be. In any case, what we do know, I think what most people agree on is that bile is responsible for flushing things through the gallbladder. Now, I'm going on tangents, I feel, but a lot of people on the low fat diet say to avoid fat because it will clog up the gallbladder or lead to gall stones. On the flip side, it's very possible that if you're on a very low-fat diet, then you're not flushing through and so you're more likely to get stones actually.

In any case, coming back to fasting. I was able to find like one study from 1980 but it was very, very interesting. It actually both supported exactly what Valter Longo says, and it completely went against it. I think he recommends not fasting more-- is it more than 15 hours, I think, that he says?

Gin Stephens: Well, he always says 12.

Melanie Avalon: 12, okay. Well, that works too. That works too for this study.

Gin Stephens: Which is-- Okay, never mind, don't get me started. I'm biting my tongue.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, so that actually works. Are you ready? This study is called Effects of fasting on the composition of gallbladder bile, and it was talking about the level of cholesterol that is dumped from the liver into bile depending on fasting with the idea being that higher cholesterol dumped into the bile is more likely to cause gallstones. Okay, they tested patients fasting at 10 hours fasted, 15 hours fasted and 20 hours fasted. Do you want to guess what they found?

Gin Stephens: No. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: 10 hours fasted, it was a certain number and it was very consistent between all the patients. 15 hours fasted, there was more cholesterol. The bile was more likely to be a risk factor for gallstones. But at 20 hours fasted, they had gone down. It seems that around 15 hours, it seems there might be a transitory increase in cholesterol and bile into the gallbladder up until around somewhere around 15, 16 hours. Then after that, it actually starts going down, which is fascinating because Valter Longo says, okay, maybe it's 12 hours, don't fast more. This is all me just going on one study from 1980, so keep that in mind. Just from that information, it seems if you fast just a little bit, you might get-- and by a little bit, between 12 and 15 hours, you might get a transitory dump of cholesterol into your gallbladder. If you fast a little bit longer, closer to a one meal a day situation, potentially a 16:8, I don't know, they didn't test 16 hours. I don't know exactly when it started going down. It sounds like if you're fasting the way a lot of our listeners probably are, you actually might have less of a chance of gallstones with that fasting window. I thought that was fascinating. Again, 1980, but--

Gin Stephens: I thought I was biting my tongue, I'm going to unloosen it a little bit. I unbit it. He changed his tune after his fasting mimicking diet came out. Before that, I heard him on a podcast talking about how he does his intermittent fasting, and then he changed what he was recommending. You were unable to find strong support of no one should fast beyond 12 hours a day or your gallbladder is going to explode or something. There was no good science for that, right?

Melanie Avalon: The purpose of that study, they did mention that, I guess, the research prior to that was contradictory and that shorter fasting did seem to increase the risk of gallstones, but longer fasting didn't. So, they were positing that it's actually because there's this transitory curve.

Gin Stephens: What I'm saying is you didn't find this wealth of information that was solidly pointed to this is a problem.

Melanie Avalon: I think there was one saying that women who skipped breakfast are more likely to have gallstones.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's the weight loss tie, and I would bet.

Melanie Avalon: To answer your question, I thought, because he's so vocal about it, I was like, “Oh.” I was like, there's going to be research, he's going to have published studies about it.” There's just going to be information, but there's not a lot. There's not much.

Gin Stephens: A lot of it is correlational, like you said, and that is the part, that's when I got a little upset with what he was talking about. He started talking about-- It was right when his book came out, maybe or right after that, or at some point, he started making the podcast circuit and telling people on the podcast circuit not to fast beyond 12 hours, which was shocking. Everybody's like, “Gosh, Valter Longo is telling people not fast after more than 12 hours,” but you can buy his fasting mimicking protocol, which is way better than actual fasting because fasting is dangerous. Then he started talking about all these the study and skipping breakfast led to heart attacks. I went and looked up that study that he cited, that is not what that study said at all. I lost a lot of respect that day, because he as a hard researcher understands what studies do and don't tell us. You don't go around saying skipping breakfast causes heart attacks based on a correlational study of people who are unhealthy and skipping breakfast. You know what I mean, Melanie. That made me like, “Okay.” He's scaring people off about doing intermittent fasting and using really poor evidence to do it. Instead say, “You know what, I've developed the fasting mimicking diet. I think it's amazing. Let me tell you why,” but don't knock intermittent fasting with poor evidence.

Melanie Avalon: I do still, all that aside--

Gin Stephens: You respect him.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I do really respect him. All of that aside, he's done a lot of really great research and studies. So, I am really excited to talk to him but I definitely am going-- these are the things I'm going to talk to him about. Normally, when I book the guests, they don't really communicate with me much beforehand about what they want to talk about, but his assistant has been very vocal about what he wants to talk about specifically. I'm really interested to see what we talk about, and I'm going to talk about this.

Gin Stephens: Can I tell you something that's kind of funny? I don't know if I should say this out loud.

Melanie Avalon: Say it, and then I'll let you know.

Gin Stephens: Let me know if I should. They actually approached me for him to be on Intermittent Fasting Stories within the past year.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?

Gin Stephens: Yes. I replied and said, “I'm sorry. I've heard him on a lot of podcasts recommending against intermittent fasting, so I'm not really sure we'd like we would like to hear his intermittent fasting story.”

Melanie Avalon: Oh, you said that? What did they say back?

Gin Stephens: I don't think they replied. I turned them down for Intermittent Fasting Stories, because it didn't seem like a good fit. Anyway, was it okay to say that out loud?

Melanie Avalon: I think it's okay. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I will say one other thing, Melanie. We've had a half a million people in the intermittent fasting communities, on Facebook, and if fasting-- these are the things I know that will happen. You're very likely to have an increase in your overall cholesterol levels after you begin fasting. That is true.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. That's something people don't talk about enough, I don't think.

Gin Stephens: My point is that these are the things that we know because they come up over and over and over. Guess what does not come up over and over and over?

Melanie Avalon: Gallstones.

Gin Stephens: Gallstones. I think it comes up every now and then. I would tend to think the rarity at which it comes up actually is lower than the prevalence of gallstones in the general population. Does that make sense? There's a high level of gallbladder issues in the general population, especially among the target group of people that are in my Facebook groups. We have mostly women over 40, 50 in that age group, we're a very large group of people in that age range that often have the gallbladder issues. If fasting made gallbladder issues worse, I would think that we would be overrun with posts about it. Instead, the number of posts we get are few and far between and seem like a smaller percentage of the population than would be in any normal population of people. Does that make sense?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: They do pop up from time to time just like here with Kath’s story, but they happen in the regular population. I feel like if fasting led to really increased gallbladder problems, we would see a lot more of it.

Melanie Avalon: The vague general idea is twofold because I realized I was focusing on the liver dumping cholesterol into the bile while fasting. But I think the main idea that's posited is that your gallbladder is becoming stagnant while fasting, and so things are accumulating in creating the stones. Literally, I was trying to find information, I couldn't find information, because I was trying to find if Valter had studies, but I couldn't find anything. But now whenever I think of old content on the internet, I'm going to think of your Facebook group, but I found this old Twitter thread.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's so sad.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] I found an old Twitter thread for Peter Attia and all his people. They're asking him what he thought about this, and he was just like, “No.” [laughs] He's like, “I haven't seen any evidence really to support this.”

Gin Stephens: We haven't. Like I said with the cholesterol, every day, there was someone saying, “I just had my bloodwork done, and my cholesterol is up.” We know that that is common because we see it, or like, “I just started fasting and my cycle’s a little wacky.” We see that all the time. We know what is very, very common. We are not a study, but we are very much an anecdotal group of evidence. We’ve got a lot of info.

Melanie Avalon: I will make a suggestion though for Kath and that is if you are struggling with gallstones-- it's controversial because, like I said in the beginning, a lot of people will say, “Oh, you need to avoid fat to avoid gallstones.” I personally think keeping at least like a small amount of fat in your diet to keep the gallbladder flushing can be pretty important. If you're doing a low-fat diet-- I don't know what type of diet she's eating but if you're doing a low-fat diet, I think that's often a risk factor for gallstones in people.

Gin Stephens: Everybody hears that we got a storm, there been some really bad storms around the southeast, and they just finally hit Augusta.

Melanie Avalon: It's weird, the area I'm in, I'm in Atlanta, but just the city I'm in for some reason, I don't know if it's the elevation, we rarely get the actual storms, like my little area. It's very strange.

Gin Stephens: Where we are near the river, the weather tends to follow a certain like path in the river. The shape of the land really does influence the weather a lot.

Melanie Avalon: Majorly. I grew up in Memphis, though. Oh, my goodness, talk about thunderstorms. We got a ton. I miss those.

Hi, friends. Okay, we have thrilling news about Joovv. They have new devices and we have a discount. Yes, a discount. No longer a free gift, a discount. As you guys know, there are a few non-negotiables in my personal daily routine. I focus on what and when I eat every single day, and I also focus on my daily dose of healthy light through Joovv’s red light therapy devices. Guys, I use my Joovv all the time. Red light therapy is one of the most effective health modalities you can use in your home. I've personally seen so many health benefits. I find it incredible for regulating my circadian rhythm, helping my mood, boosting my thyroid, smoothing my skin. I've also used it on multiple occasions for targeted pain relief. Anyone who's familiar with red light therapy pretty much knows that Joovv is the leading brand. They pioneered this technology, and they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use. Since then, they've remained the most innovative, forward-thinking light therapy brands out there.

We're so excited because Joovv just launched their next generation of devices, and they've made huge upgrades to what was already a really incredible system. Their new devices are sleeker, they're up to 25% lighter, and they all have the same power that we've come to expect from them. They've also intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. They've also upgraded the setup for the new devices with quick easy mounting options, so your new Joovv can fit just about any space.

The new devices include some pretty cool new features, things like their Recovery Plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves an extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near-infrared light. And this is my personal favorite update. For those of us who like to use do devices to wind down at night, they now have an ambient mode that creates a calming lower intensity of light at night. Guys, I am so excited about this. Using this light at night is way healthier than bright blue light from all of our screens, and much more in line with your circadian rhythm. I was using my current Joovv devices at night anyway to light my whole apartment, so this new ambient mode is really going to be a game-changer for me. Of course, you still get the world-class customer service from your helpful, friendly Joovv team.

So, if you're looking for a new Joovv device for your home, we have some very exciting news. You can go to joovv.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST. You'll get an exclusive discount on Joovv’s newest devices. Yes, discount, I said it. That's J-O-O-V-V dotcom, forward slash, I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. Exclusions apply. this is for a limited time only. We'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Shall we answer one more question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. story about this question. We've actually answered this question before, but whatever episode it was originally cuts off, and somewhere along the line and the many, many times we have changed hosts, we lost that original episode. People have asked us so many times, what was our answer to this question? Our assistant actually was like, maybe you should just answer it again.

Gin Stephens: That's so funny. What episode was that?

Melanie Avalon: I don't even know.

Gin Stephens: I didn't realize that's what happened to it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, the episode cuts off in half or something.

Gin Stephens: Okay. They’d be like, “What?”

Melanie Avalon: We get questions a lot about what our answer was, and we're like, “We don't know, we don't remember.” Our assistant, Sharon, was like, “Maybe you should just re-answer it.”

Gin Stephens: As if it's brand new because we might say new things.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. She's like, and then I can just tell them to check out this episode, so that's what we're doing right now. The original email was from Celeste and the subject was “Crashing when my window opens.” Celeste said, “I'm very new to IF. I've been doing 18:6 for about a week and listening to your podcast in the mornings as I get ready for the day. I typically open the window at noon for lunch and then eat dinner before 6 PM. I'm not eating terribly, I don't think. For lunches, I have something left over from the night before, like broccoli, chicken, ground turkey, taco, salad, or brown rice with a chicken something. However, about 30 minutes to an hour after eating, I feel like I just downed a pizza and a large ice cream and I feel a complete crash. Is this something that will improve with time or am I eating the wrong things? I keep hearing Gin say no foods are off limits. So, I'm not sure why I'm feeling my great morning energy disappear after eating.”

Gin Stephens: Celeste, first of all, I want to say you're very new to IF and feelings like this are a lot more pronounced in the beginning. During the adjustment phase, you're going to feel all sorts of wacky ups and downs with your energy levels both during the fast and after you eat. Your body is learning how to do a new thing. You're not metabolically flexible, you're probably not tapping into your fat stores very well during the fast, and your body is not great at shifting back and forth between fuel sources, the fed state, the fasted state. That's when you have a lot more weird energy slumps and stuff like that happening. That being said, I never feel as energetic after I eat as I do during the fast, and that's because during the fast I'm running on ketones increasingly as the day goes on. As the day gets longer, and my fast is longer, I have more mental clarity and more energy. Then, after I eat and my body shifts fuel sources, I feel more relaxed and calm and less productive. I like to use the same analogy all the time. Think about lions after they feast. What do they do? They sleep. Think about Thanksgiving dinner, what does everybody do after Thanksgiving dinner? You're all really tired. That's because digestion takes a lot of work. Now, I don't completely crash after my dinner. As your body becomes more metabolically flexible, you also should not just totally crash. You'll feel better, but you're not going to feel as energetic.

Melanie Avalon: I agree. That's the sort of response that I have as well. That's actually why I like eating later. It actually makes me tired, and it helps me sleep. The thing I'm wondering about is, the feeling, is it tiredness, just like you feel like you ate a big meal and you feel satiated and nourished, but you're tired? When I hear pizza and ice cream, I think more of a not good feeling, and maybe I'm getting a little bit esoteric. What I'm wondering is, is it literally just the feeling of a lack of energy or is that also the feeling of inflammation and reacting to food and an uncomfortable feeling? I know it can be a little bit vague or a little bit unclear about discerning between those two different things, but if it's just the tiredness and the digestion and everything, then I don't think that's necessarily a problem, and it's something that may or may not change, depending on how you continue. But if it is a different feeling of discomfort and brain fog and that sort of feeling, then I would also look at the food choices and see if the foods are not working for you specifically. That's my only other thought about it.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I definitely think that's important as you go on. Just during the adjustment phase is just not the time to feel like that's how you're going to feel every all the time.

Melanie Avalon: True.

Gin Stephens: By now, I'm pretty sure that Celeste has adjusted.

Melanie Avalon: Celeste, email us back.

Gin Stephens: Follow up. We would love that. Follow up, let us know how it's going, if it's gotten better.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we answer one more question?

Gin Stephens: Yes. Amber says, subject, “15-hour fast?” “Hello, ladies. Thank you so much. I love this podcast and each of yours individually and listen to all three regularly. My mother has had great success with intermittent fasting and I have as well, but have some struggles and questions. I exercise at a rigorous boot camp three to four times a week. I have diabetes in my family and feel reading Jason Fung’s Obesity Code as well as Gin’s books have been very helpful at lowering my insulin by lowering my number of feedings each day. I strive to fast every day, but I also have struggles. I love to eat with my coworkers, and also my family enjoys an evening meal together too. I skip breakfast and sometimes lunch. I try to fast 20 to 24 hours on Sundays and Wednesdays because of my schedule but most other days, it's only 15 hours. I feel great and workouts are great. I feel like it has to be lowering my overall insulin. But am I missing out on benefits because I only fast 15 hours most days?”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Amber, thank you so much for your question. I think what you're doing sounds great. I think 15 hours is great, especially if you're feeling great, you're seeing all of the benefits, and you're exercising at a rigorous boot camp three to four times a week, that's a lot right there. A lot of people do find just fasting without even that intensive exercise-- Oh, and then on top of that, you're also doing a few 20- to 24-hour fasts. If anything, some people in your situation, with the exercise, it might be too much. I'm not saying it's too much, but I'm saying she's wondering if she's not fasting enough, but for a lot of people, everything that she's doing might be the high end of what they even should be doing. So, I think it sounds like it's working great for you. Gin, what do you think?

Gin Stephens: Well, it just depends what benefits she's looking for. She says is she missing out on benefits? Maybe depending on what benefits you're looking for, like for example, you're not getting into peak fat burning time if you only fast 15 hours most days. On the flip side, if you're happy with your weight, then maybe you don't need to get into peak fat burning time. That's the part we haven't really enough information to know what benefits she's looking for. If you're looking for increased autophagy, you're going to have some increased autophagy at 15 versus if you got up and ate breakfast. But if you really want to have a little more increased autophagy during the day, you may want to go a little longer.

Melanie Avalon: She's also doing boot camp three to four times a week, and that's going to be really supportive of autophagy. I don't know if she's doing it fasted.

Gin Stephens: We don't know. There's still a bunch of questions. She's lowered her insulin, that's really good. If she's at a very healthy weight where she feels great and not trying to lose weight, and this feels like a great lifestyle and her rhythm is good and the exercise time and the fasting time, then she doesn't need to change a thing. But if she's not seeing what she wants to see as far as progress or goals or health, then I would tweak it. Only Amber can answer that question based on her goals. This may be just the right amount of fasting for her, but it might not be.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Should we do one more?

Gin Stephens: Sure. We're covering up like crazy today. And I talked for 100 years at the beginning.

Melanie Avalon: I know I'm impressed. I feel like and we talked about Valter Longo stuff for a long time. I feel like time is weird on this episode. One more question from Jennifer, the subject is, “Long-term intermittent fasting.” Jennifer says, “Hi, Melanie and Gin. Your intermittent fasting podcast is the best thing about Monday mornings. Thank you both for your wisdom. Within the last month, I have listened to two podcasts on fasting in which the speaker has said that eventually after two to three years, intermittent fasting stops working and that your body stops losing fat and/or maintaining fat loss. The experts said that bodies become adapted to whatever we do. Both of you have said this too about fasting protocols, and that eventually your body will react against this adaptation by gaining weight. Both podcasters stated that intermittent fasting only works in the short term. Well, both of you have proven this wrong in your own lives. I wonder if you could address and refute this claim to make me feel better about my long-term plan, which is to intermittent fast forever. Thanks for your insights on this. Jennifer.”

Gin Stephens: I'm going to give you a short answer, and then the long answer. The short answer is no. [laughs] You like that one? Oh, lordy. I just love when the experts who are not intermittent fasters like to talk about what's going to happen with the people who are intermittent fasting when they really just don't know. I hit my goal weight in 2015, and it is now 2021. Through that time, I went through menopause also. This morning, my Shapa scale shows that my Shapa age is 18. Isn't that wacky? It's based on my body composition, I'm 18 years old. So, I will say that no, that they are wrong about that it is impossible to maintain fat loss. Thanks to intermittent fasting. I've been in these communities for a long, long time since 2015, and the only time I've ever seen people having trouble with weight regain has been over the pandemic. A lot of people, who had been maintaining very well, all of a sudden had little weight gain after the pandemic. Did you know, Melanie, that the average weight gain was something like 29 pounds for adults?

Melanie Avalon: Did you listen to Joe Rogan today?

Gin Stephens: I don't.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, Mark Sisson was just on Joe Rogan and they were talking about. I just listened to that statistic right before this.

Gin Stephens: Everybody was talking about it all over the place, that the average American gained 29 pounds over the pandemic. We saw some of this in the intermittent fasting community.

Melanie Avalon: Some people just didn't gain weight, but if you did gain weight, that was the average, I think, regardless.

Gin Stephens: That's not what the way I saw it. That doesn't mean that the way I saw it was correct. You know how when you play the game of telephone by the time you get around the circle, it's completely different. I did hear people say repeating that, that the average person gained 29 pounds, but just because I heard people saying that doesn't mean that's really true. [laughs] Whatever it is, this is the only time in the history of managing Facebook support groups that we suddenly had people not maintaining their weight. What most of them have done, they've corrected it since then because it was because we were all baking sourdough bread and sweet rolls and cookies and cocktail day was every day.

Melanie Avalon: We weren't outside and we were not exercising, lost our jobs, stress. It's basically everything for weight gain.

Gin Stephens: It all happened at one time.

Melanie Avalon: Cornucopia of unpleasantness.

Gin Stephens: Other than that, let's just put that to the side, pretend 2020 didn't happen, my honesty pants got a little tighter. Again, right this minute, my waist measurement-- because I keep up with my waist measurement, it's at the lowest it's ever been. I have not been slimmer in my adult life ever maintaining it, and in a period of time, and I'm 51 years old, and I've been through menopause in the past year. So, our bodies do become adapted to what we do, but that doesn't mean that you're then suddenly going to start to crazy gain weight, because you're adapted. Being adapted doesn't make you suddenly crazy gain or lose weight. Now, if I started eating all day long every day, I would probably gain weight. But as long as I continue intermittent fasting, I'm not going to. Of course, prior to intermittent fasting, I was crazy gaining weight. Whatever has happened with my body, I am thousand times more healthy than I was in 2014 when I weighed 210 pounds. Even if it was true that my body changed and no longer, whatever, all this period of time has been so much healthier than if I hadn't lost the weight. I really don't know why the experts would say that. They're trying to convince you not to even try it, “Don't even try it, it's helpless.” If that's the case, why even try to lose weight at all? But we can lose weight, and we can keep it off. I don't want you to let those people get inside your head.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, for anybody doing a dietary protocol fasting, whatever they're doing, if there becomes a point where they lose a certain amount of weight where the body perceives it as not being adequate body fat and/or they're eating a diet that the body perceives as not enough food and nutrition, that's going to be most likely an inevitable response of the body adapting or wanting to hold on to weight. Intermittent fasting does not necessitate that. They seem they're the same thing as intermittent fasting, but they're not because they can go with intermittent fasting, but they don't have to.

Gin Stephens: Right. An overly restrictive intermittent fasting lifestyle is not recommended by either me nor by Melanie.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, the two things I'm saying is, like Gin said, the overly restrictive diet or the body reaching a point that's too low for what the hypothalamus feels it should be at. Those are not synonyms with intermittent fasting. It's funny, you mentioned that they were wrong about that and my initial response was, “Oh, I don't ever say anybody's wrong.” Then, I thought, “Well, actually, it is wrong, because some people,” I don't know exactly what they said. they said it's impossible to maintain a weight with intermittent fasting. That is wrong, because we see it all the time. Yes.

Gin Stephens: I just wonder what stops working? Autophagy doesn't stop working. Mark Mattson has been living in intermittent fasting lifestyle for, I don't know, what over a decade now. He's a neurological researcher and wrote the article in the New England Journal of Medicine that came out in 2019 that got everyone excited about the health benefits of intermittent fasting. He's one of the premier experts, and he does it. I don't think all these people that study it would do it. The more you read about it, the more you learn about it, the more you want to do it. I think people just like make things up.

Melanie Avalon: I think some people can do intermittent fasting, but then they also might--

Gin Stephens: They might stop doing it.

Melanie Avalon: Or they might be more lax is the flip side. They might actually still be able to maintain or lose weight without doing what they perceive to be as strict as they need to be all the time. The opposite could also be true. You might be able to not be doing all the fasting all the time and have some days off and still maintain and lose weight as well.

Gin Stephens: You're saying your maintenance protocol could be more relaxed than your weight loss protocol?

Melanie Avalon: That might be possible.

Gin Stephens: If you relax all the way down to not doing it anymore [laughs] ever, then you're probably going to regain the weight. That's the thing. I would not want to stop doing intermittent fasting for the health benefits alone, but I also feel great, and I'm maintaining the weight loss for the first time in my whole adult life. None of the other things led to lasting weight loss that I did, none of them, not one, only intermittent fasting. Yeah, it's my study of one but--

Melanie Avalon: We'll take it.

Gin Stephens: Yep.

Melanie Avalon: Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. a few things for listeners. Before we go, you can submit your own questions to the podcast, just directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. I'm MelanieAvalon, Gin is GinStephens. I love Instagram.

Gin Stephens: Oh, can I tell you something very exciting?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I was on Instagram the other day. I went to see what Tim Spector was posting. You know how when you go to someone's page and it says follow back, is he following you?

Gin Stephens: Yes. I was not following him, but I followed him back. It said, “Follow back.” I was like, “Oh my God,” because Tim Spector is one of my heroes, obviously, and Mark Mattson too. I don't even know if he's on Instagram, but I'm going to go look, but I was like, he knows who I am. Anyway.

Melanie Avalon: That is really exciting. I love that feeling.

Gin Stephens: It was exciting. It was so exciting.

Melanie Avalon: I just followed him on Instagram, and it recommends following Zoe. That's funny.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I don't follow Zoe yet, but maybe I should. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: Nope. Everybody check out my blog post if you need to read something. ginstephens.com, Change is in the Air.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect. Well, I'm excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Thank you.

Melanie Avalon: I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Apr 11

Episode 208: Bloating After Eating, Glucose & Ketones, Podcasting, Wine, Chocoholics, Replacing Bad Habits, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 208 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BLUBlox: Overexposure to blue light in our modern environments can lead to increased anxiety, stress, headaches, and other health conditions. Even a tiny exposure to artificial light can completely offset your circadian rhythm! Unlike many “blue light blocking” glasses on the market, BLUBlox provides glasses that block the exact blue wavelengths you need to regulate sleep, reduce anxiety, and much more! They also provide different types of glasses for the time of day, season, and your personal electronic and light exposure! Plus, for every BLUblox purchase, they donate a pair of glasses to someone in need! Go To blublox.com And Use The Code ifpodcast For 15% Off!

GREEN CHEF: Get easy, affordable meals made with organic ingredients for a variety of lifestyles - including Vegetarian, Paleo, Keto, Vegan, and Vegetarian - shipped straight to your home! Go To greenchef.com/90ifpodcast And Use Code 90IFPODCAST To Get $90 Off Including Free Shipping!

THERAGUN: Used by medical practitioners worldwide, the Theragun handheld percussive therapy device releases your deepest muscle tension using a scientifically-calibrated combination of depth, speed, and power. It stimulates the body for healing, reduces muscle pain and soreness, relieves stress, supports sleep, and more! Melanie first experienced the benefits from both a doctor and chiropractor, and resolved to bring it to our audience! Try Theragun For 30 Days Starting At Just $199 At theragun.com/ifpodcast!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BLUBLOX: Go To blublox.com And Use The Code ifpodcast For 15% Off!

4:00 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order!

14:30 - Listener Q&A: Liz - Bloating, Blood Glucose, and Ketones...OH MY! (I'm NOT Chasing Ketones, I Promise!)

FOOD SENSE GUIDEGet Melanie's App To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue Of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, Histamine, Amine, Glutamate, Oxalate, Salicylate, Sulfite, And Thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, Reactions To Look For, Lists Of Foods High And Low In Them, The Ability To Create Your Own Personal Lists, And More!

Masszymes, P3-OM ProbioticsHCL Breakthrough

Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

Episode 207: Gin’s New Social App, Whoosh Effect, Water-weight & Inflammation, T1 Diabetes, Energy Toxicity, Collagen, Vitamins, And More!

26:00 - GREEN CHEF: Go To greenchef.com/90ifpodcast And Use Code 90IFPODCAST To Get $90 Off Including Free Shipping!

Go To Melanieavalon.Com/NutrisenseCGM And Use Coupon Code MelanieAvalon For 15% Off Select Packages

31:25 - Listener Q&A: Michelle - THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION ASK THUS FAR

Vacu Vin Wine Saver Pump

33:40 - Listener Q&A: Rhonda - Question

36:05 - Listener Q&A: Leah - Podcast Resources

Mics

Delay Don't Deny Social Network

47:50THERAGUN: Try Theragun For 30 Days Starting At Just $199 At theragun.com/ifpodcast!

50:00 - Listener Q&A: Maureen - Question

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 208 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I’m Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I’m here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment., pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi friends, I’m about to tell you how to get 15% off something I use every single day of my life, nonnegotiable, and which has a massive effect on my stress, anxiety sleep, so many things. As it turns out, we are massively over exposed to blue light today. Blue light is found in daylight, and it's also really high in all of the electronics and indoor lighting that we use. While it's great because it can keep you alert, overexposure to blue light is actually really, really terrible for stress, anxiety, our circadian rhythm, and so much more. Basically, it tells our bodies to constantly be on and can really do a number on our health. But there's an easy solution. It's blue light blocking glasses, it's why I’ve been using these every single day of my life for years now. Wearing blue light blocking glasses in the evening and night can filter out those blue wavelengths so that you can have a normal sleep schedule, wind down, reduce headaches, reduce migraines, embrace more of a sense of calm and so much more.

BLUblox is also super amazing in that they make different blue light blocking glasses to fit all of your needs. They have clear computer glasses that you can actually wear during the day. Those will still let in blue light to keep you alert, but they mitigate some of the damage of overexposure to blue light. BLUblox has their yellow toned SummerGlo glasses. Those are tinted with a special yellow color shown to boost mood and they also help filter out some of the blue light as the day is winding down. Lastly, they have their Sleep+ lens. Those are a red tone, and they block all blue light. Friends, it's almost shocking when you put them on, how tired you instantly feel. I wear these every single night. I will not change this habit. I cannot recommend enough that you guys try this.

BLUblox’s glasses come in so many styles, you can really find whatever look you're looking for, and they come in prescription if you need that. For every pair of BLUblox classes you buy, BLUblox donates a pair of reading glasses to someone in need. BLUblox blocks also makes the Remedy Sleep Mask, it has zero eye pressure. Meaning, it goes around your eyes so you can open up your eyes completely, and it will be complete blackout. The padding around your eyes as memory phone and their new light version is even more comfortable. You can barely tell you have it on. True story, when I first got the mask, the first night I used it, I woke up and tried to check the time on the phone, by the way, don't do that, that's not a good sleep habit. In any case, I kept trying to turn on my phone and I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't light up. Then, I realized I had on the sleep mask and didn't even realize I had it on.

BLUblox has a special offer just for our listeners. You can go to blublox.com and if you use the coupon code, IFPODCAST, you'll get 15% off your order. Again, that's blublox.com, with the coupon code, IFPODCAST, for 15% off your order. We'll put all this information in the show notes.

One more thing before we jump in. Are you concerned about aging? Well, thankfully, fasting is super incredible for its anti-aging benefits. It activates genes in your body called sirtuins, which repair your body and help extend lifespan. Also, during the fast, your body can clean up a lot of harmful chemicals which may be taxing your detoxification systems. In fact, the reason people go gray is because their detox systems start producing a lot of hydrogen peroxide when dealing with toxins. Do you know where a lot of those chemicals come from? Your skincare and makeup. As it turns out, there are thousands of compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup that Europe has banned due to their toxic nature and the US has banned less than 10. When you put these on your skin every single day through your skincare and makeup, you're adding to your body's burden and likely aging your skin faster.

Thankfully, you can easily clean up your skincare with a company called Beautycounter. They make incredible products that are extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can feel good about every single ingredient that you put on. They also have an amazing antiaging line called Countertime. Friends, this is a game-changer. It's full of active ingredients which nourish and support your skin, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, and support a beautiful glow. It also has a safe alternative to retinol, so you can get all of the anti-aging benefits of retinol without any of the toxic effects of retinol, because, yes, that stuff is toxic. Guys, put it away now.

You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter, and if you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. Also definitely get on my clean beauty email list that's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away so many free things on that list. definitely check it out.

Lastly, if you anticipate making safe skincare a part of your future, just like Gin and I do? Definitely become a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for safe skincare. You get 10% back on all of your purchases, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that costs way more than the price of the membership. It's completely worth it. Friends, are you fast and clean inside and out? You can with Beautycounter. Again, that link is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 208 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I’m Melanie Avalon and I’m here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am doing so great. It's been a week since we launched the DDD social network at dddsocialnetwork.com. Members are coming in. We're at about 2500 members as of today. They're finding their groups and they're getting active. Oh, it's so much fun to watch. I feel like I invited everybody to a party, and they came over.

Melanie Avalon: I can't wait to actually explore, so then I can talk about my experience.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, it's wonderful. It's dddsocialnetwork.com. Yes, it's a paid membership site, but we're having to pay for it ourselves. It's not like we're not on a free platform like we used to be. There are costs involved in running this type of a thing. That's why it's paid. It's so much fun not having to worry about it, AI watching the wording. One of my moderators is in a group, that's a keto group, she said that they're having so much trouble over there because every time someone says fat adapted, the AI picks up on it and says, “It's hate speech,” because it thinks that you're bullying, calling somebody fat, so you're not allowed to use certain words. They're having so much trouble in that group. They're having to spell it out a different way or say things in code. I’m like, “Well, that's weird.” On the DDD Social Network, you can say fat adapted all day long if you want to.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if anybody in my group has run into that problem.

Gin Stephens: It's just so very interesting some of the things that get flagged as questionable content. Obviously, AI, artificial intelligence, is not a human, so they're looking for certain keywords. Like in our Life Lessons Podcast Facebook group, we're studying Brené Brown’s, one of her books in the podcast group, we're doing a month-long book study. Someone was talking about bullying and just the whole sense of whatever, how it makes us to feel as a person. Then, someone commented on someone, they're like talking about middle school, like a lot of our issues come from what we go through in middle school. Someone was talking about that, and the comment was, “Oh, yeah, girls are the worst.” Well, wouldn't you say that middle school girls can be some of the worst for bullying?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: Okay. But the comment, “Oh, yeah, girls are the worst,” it was perfectly in context. Got removed by AI, flagged as hate speech. The members don't know, they think that maybe I’ve removed their comment. They don't know Facebook's removed it. Facebook shows it to me and says, “Oop, hate speech.” We're like, “No, it's not. It's not.” Anyway. [sighs]

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that reminds me of, I listened to a really good interview with Jack Dorsey about Twitter. He was talking about all of the complexities you have to take in context, it's hard for a bot. I don't even know if they can take in context.

Gin Stephens: I don't know how you would teach them to, you have to teach him to, but yeah, it's really creating a lot of problems. I understand why Facebook is cracking down on that type of thing. They want to make sure the platform doesn't have bullying and hate speech. We all agree with that. We don't want to have that either. But in the meantime, it's like running amuck.

Melanie Avalon: Actually, yes. Can I tell you about my related bot, Facebook-related struggle?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: It's not actually Facebook, it's Instagram, but they are together, they're the same company now. As you know, I’m having a fabulous time now on Instagram. I just love and I said this before, but I really love creating content. It's really exciting to create visual content with words about all the biohacking thing and share what I learned and even though selfies make me uncomfortable but still I’m really enjoying it. It can seem not that important but I think it's really important to have the verified badge, the little blue checkmark. It can do a lot of credibility and it's really important if you actually are needing to be verified for something. Gin, you're a New York times bestselling author, IF the podcast, so the issue is that it's also run by bots, the verification process. You can submit to be verified, but apparently it's bots that review. They have some sort of criteria, I think, I don't know, this is what I’ve been told. It's some sort of criteria with google and where your name comes up. There's no actual person looking at your account and being like, “Oh, yes, this is who they say they are,” because if that was the case, I think both you and I would get the little verification checkmark. My current dilemma is I’m trying to figure out how to get somebody at Instagram to actually look at my account, like a real person.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, well, hopefully they can look at mine too [laughs] because it would be nice to have the check. We are who we say we are.

Melanie Avalon: I know.

Gin Stephens: They'll be like, “Wait, why is she posting all these pictures of cats? She must not be. That's not really her.”

Melanie Avalon: It's really interesting to see most people you would expect in the biohacking health worlds to be verified are, but there are a lot of people that aren't, and I don't know if it's a situation where they are doing like I’m doing where they're submitting but it gets rejected or they're just not submitting for it. But if any of our thousands and thousands of listeners knows anybody at Instagram who can review our accounts, that'd be amazing.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I told somebody, I can't remember who it was, but it was somebody who is definitely someone I consider to be legitimate and big enough, and they were not checked, they didn't have a check.

Melanie Avalon: I have a good friend who is an actor, who's in a lot of big TV shows, movies, and he cannot get-- they keep rejecting him too. He's posted about it a lot on Instagram. He's like, “Why am I getting rejected?” I mean, it makes no sense.

Gin Stephens: Is it somebody I would recognize?

Melanie Avalon: Possibly, I can tell you after.

Gin Stephens: Okay.

Melanie Avalon: I don't know if you've seen any of the shows, but one thing I keep thinking is, if I can somehow get somebody at Instagram to review my account, I’m going to be like, “Hey, can you also look at his?” because I know, and Gin’s.

Gin Stephens: And mine, and look at mine. I don't care. I don't need to be verified. I know I am who I am but it would still be like, “Oh, that's cool.

Melanie Avalon: For credibility, I think it's important. It just goes back to that bot versus human thing. If a human person would look at our accounts, we'd be good, but it's the bots. It sounds so futuristic.

Gin Stephens: It really is funny, but we're running into it, like I said, every day on the Facebook groups, some kind of weird comment, that's getting flagged. Did you know there's bots who try to join Facebook groups? I don't even know what that means, but there's Facebook profiles that are bots, did you know that?

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: I don't know either but one of my moderators is amazing and she understands all the security side of things and they all have certain answers. They'll try to join, it'll be like yes, yes, yes or like--

Melanie Avalon: No, I’ve been experiencing that recently. For listeners, I have my Facebook groups, I have IF Biohackers, I have a Lumen Biosense CGM group, and then I have my Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare. Every day, I get probably four or five requests where it's that. They answer it yes, yes, yes or hi, hi, hi.

Gin Stephens: Right. Hi, hi, hi, that's one.

Melanie Avalon: I thought it was spammers, it's bots?

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't know. There's bots and spammers. I don’t know the difference. Some of them are spammers and some of them are bots. I don't really know what a bot is, it makes no sense to me, but I just know that this moderator who understands how that works, she's like, “Yeah, this is a bot profile.” We're like, “Okay,” I don't know if they're all bots. Maybe some are spammers and some are bots, maybe they're spammer-bots. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: It's crazy.

Gin Stephens: It really is. Behind the scenes in social media management is just a whole different world that you just would not understand.

Melanie Avalon: Well, on that note, shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's get started.

Melanie Avalon: All right. To start things off, we have a few questions and they come from Liz. The subject is “Bloating, Blood Glucose and Ketones, oh my. [I’m not chasing ketones, I promise]” I thought that was a great title.

Gin Stephens: I did too.

Melanie Avalon: Liz says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I am new to the if lifestyle, just about two weeks in and I’m already feeling so many health benefits. I love the energy I have while in the fasted state and it just warms my heart to think about all of the benefits my body is receiving behind the scenes. I began the IF journey after reading Dave Asprey’s new book, Fast This Way, landed on Fast. Feast. Repeat. through a Kindle recommendation. I’m currently reading What When Wine and am totally geeking out over all of the IF science.” Man, she's hitting all of them.

Gin Stephens: She really is.

Melanie Avalon: She says, “If you're familiar with Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies.” Oh yes, Liz, I am familiar. She says, “I am a questioner, so bingeing on your books and podcast episodes has totally fed my tendency, pardon the pun. My first question is about feeling bloated after feasting. I dove straight into a 16:8 plan two weeks ago, but naturally shifted to 20:4, sometimes 22:2 based on my hunger cues. I was shocked when I made it through a 20-hour fast without one thought of food. However, I’ve noticed that after eating a well-balanced meal of whole foods and a shorter window, I feel bloated. I don't believe I am overeating as I eat to satiety and don't feel overfull, so I’m confused by the bloated heavy feeling. Any thoughts?” We can do these one at a time if you like.

Gin Stephens: Okay, yeah, that's fine. That's a great question, Liz. We hear it all the time. You've got to figure out, it can be one of two things. Number one, it could be actual bloating. When we're doing intermittent fasting, we spend so much of the day in the fasted state, we get used to that feeling. Then now, you eat and then you're going to notice a difference in the way you feel. If it is actual bloating, you'll notice a difference sooner than you would like, say, if you were eating all day long in the past, because that's just how you felt, you didn't really notice-- there wasn't like a contrast between the fasted state and then now you're actually having bloating. You need to figure out if it's actual bloating or is it just the contrast between the fasted state and the fed state because your system feels so empty, and you feel so slim, and then you eat and then you've got food in there. Imagine your digestive system, from your esophagus to your stomach, to your intestines, imagine that during the fast that clears out. Then, you eat and suddenly that big mass of what you just ate is moving through you. Maybe you're mistaking that for bloating. You've got to decide or you've got to figure out is it just the massive food, you're not feeling that slim, fasted feeling anymore? Or, is it actual bloating, that now the fasting is showing you that you're bloating after eating? Fasting doesn't cause intestinal bloating itself, that would be what you're eating. You have to figure out if that's something that's going on for you.

Melanie Avalon: That's a really great distinction. Then, my suggestions for actually addressing the bloating, if it is due to actual bloating. The actual bloating from it could be digestive distress, because you're not breaking down the food properly and/or you have gut dysbiosis, it's creating issues with your gut bacteria. Suggestions I would make, one would be, a lot of people benefit from a low FODMAP approach, at least as a trial run. It's basically foods that are free of carbohydrate-based substrates that can feed gut bacteria and lead to bloating and digestive issues, so that's something you can try. Especially if you're already eating whole foods, you probably find it to be an easy adaptation. You can get my app, it's called Food Sense Guide. It's a comprehensive catalogue of over 300 foods for actually 12 different compounds that people often react to in foods. One of those categories is FODMAPs, so that might be helpful for you.

Other things on the app, if people struggle with histamine or lectins or gluten or oxalates, salicylates, night shades, sulfites, thiols, it even has AIP. It's a really, really cool app, which by the way, Gin, whenever I do randomly check it, it's usually between like number 10 and number 20 for all food and drinks apps still in the iTunes Store, which is very exciting, and thanks to Gin’s son, Cal. Then, on top of that, you can use digestive enzymes or HCL, or on top of that or in addition, if you are struggling with actually breaking down food, people can really, really benefit from digestive enzymes and HCL. BiOptimizers makes a really good digestive enzyme that we like called MassZymes. They also make HCL Breakthrough. The way that you would want to use those is the HCL you actually want to take at the beginning of your meal, and that's basically stomach acid and it's going to help digest your food. The stomach acid actually prompts the release of pancreatic enzymes in your small intestine, so increasing stomach acid not only breaks down the food in your stomach, it actually encourages breaking down the food further down in the small intestine.

On top of that, if you actually take the digestive enzymes, which you would want to take after the HCL, because that would be the natural order of things in your own body that can really, really help. It can be game changers for so many people, myself included. We can put links in the show notes to that. We often have a code for them, I’m not sure if this episode specifically will have a code, but there's usually a code. If they're not sponsoring this episode, just go back through the most recent episodes on our website, until you find--

Gin Stephens: Yeah, they're not sponsoring this one.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. They actually sponsored episode 207, which was the one before this, so if you go the show notes for 207, you can get a coupon code for them. They also make a probiotic called P3-OM, and I really like that probiotic because, in general, I said that gut microbiome can be an issue with bloating but P3-OM, specifically the strain is lact-- I think it's L plantarum. It's actually a proteolytic probiotic, meaning it also helps you digest your food, which is super cool. Looking at your food choices, trying maybe a low FODMAP approach, bringing in some digestive enzymes and digestive support, I really think that you can solve the bloating issue.

Her next question, she says, “Are about blood glucose and ketones. I recently tested both my blood glucose and ketone levels throughout the course of the day and had interesting results. My fasting blood sugar is typically between 70 to 75 milligrams per deciliter. An hour and a half after a cup of plain black coffee about 12.5 hours into my fast, my blood glucose level went to 85 milligrams per deciliter later in the afternoon, about 15 hours into my fast, I had a cup of plain black decaf coffee. I retested my blood glucose level an hour later and it was 86. I realize that this is still considered normal, but I was just wondering if the potential insulin response could cause a problem. I really do not want to switch to a water-only fast as I love and have always loved playing black coffee.”

Gin Stephens: Can we answer this one first?

Melanie Avalon: I just want to say, “Liz, your blood sugar levels are fabulous.”

Gin Stephens: Yeah, even 85 is fabulous.

Melanie Avalon: Fabulous. [laughs] Those are really great numbers. I have other thoughts but go ahead.

Gin Stephens: I was like, “What's the pro--?" People often get confused-- and so Liz is saying she's worrying about a potential insulin response, but see, let's think about this. You noticed that after you had coffee, your blood glucose was higher. Okay, so why was it higher? Well, coffee causes our liver to dump glycogen, what does that glycogen do? It raises your blood glucose level. Do we want our liver to dump glycogen? Yeah, as our liver dumps glycogen, it gets us closer to ketosis, to that fat burning state. People will be very confused. If the only thing that happened is you had an insulin response, like you drank coffee, had an insulin response, no glycogen dump, you just had an insulin response, your blood glucose would go down, because that's what insulin does. If you just have insulin only, blood glucose goes down. So, if your blood glucose is going up, yet you haven't taken in any good blood glucose, it's coming from inside your own body and that's your liver dumping the glycogen. Don't let your blood glucose level confuse you. Now, is it possible that if your blood glucose goes up, that your body might release some insulin to respond to a higher blood glucose? Yes, that could happen but that's how your body is supposed to work. Your body is constantly releasing what it feels like is the right amount of insulin. If your blood glucose had gone up to a higher level, your body was like, “Oop, we need to bring that down,” then you would have had a little-- We're not ever at a zero-insulin state unless you're like type 1 diabetic and you release no insulin at all. We all have insulin going on. What we don't want is chronic high levels of insulin.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly, and then also this is not her case or it might be, but I just wanted to clarify for listeners as well that even if your glycogen is depleted, you can still have the same experience because the liver can actually create new glycogen--

Gin Stephens: New glucose to send out.

Melanie Avalon: Sugar, glucose, that’s the word, through gluconeogenesis, so you can experience that liver dumping effect regardless of your glycogen stores.

Gin Stephens: It's coming from somewhere, it's coming from inside your body. The coffee didn't have any glucose in it. When people say something raises your blood sugar, it doesn't raise your blood sugar, that's not necessarily the metric we're looking for. Jason Fung talks about this in the Diabetes Code that we've been chasing the wrong thing, what is your blood sugar doing from minute to minute. Instead, the whole point has been just control the blood sugar only without thinking about what else is happening.

Melanie Avalon: Then also on top of that, both Gin and I have worn CGMs, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve seen personally, just in general, it wavers-- because she says hers is normally between 70 to 75 and then it's gone up to 86, but that variation of around 10 to 15 within a certain range is very, very normal.

Gin Stephens: One of my moderators, she does Zumba every morning, and she's not had anything to eat obviously before she goes, but every day after Zumba, her blood glucose pops up, after exercise. She like, “There's the Zumba up, it goes up every day.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. The reason for that is for brief intense exercise, they say with people on very, very long-term ketogenic diets that they adapt to this, but for most people, like brief sprints and really intense exercise requires carbs, just because of the literal amount of speed, the time that it takes to turn that into energy compared to fatty acids and ketones, although ketones are faster than fatty acids.

Gin Stephens: Today's episode is brought to you by Green Chef. Green Chef is the first USDA-certified organic meal kit company. Enjoy clean ingredients you can trust, seasonally sourced for peak freshness. Ingredients come premeasured, perfectly portioned, and mostly prepped, so you can spend less time stressing and more time enjoying delicious home-cooked meals. Green Chef makes eating well easy and affordable with plans to fit every lifestyle, whether you’re keto, paleo, vegan, vegetarian, or just looking to eat healthier. There’s a range of recipes to suit any diet or preference. Personally, most weeks, I get the Balanced Living plan that lets me choose a variety of dishes with meat or vegetarian dishes, depending on what looks good for us at that time. Sometimes, I go with the vegetarian plan. Last night, it was definitely from the Balanced Living menu, we had an amazing Green Chef meal with lemon mustard chicken. It came with fingerling potatoes that I roasted in the oven and it had also green peas with roasted red peppers. It was definitely window-worthy and even Chad agrees. That’s the part that’s the best, he always is happy when I make a Green Chef. To get a special offer for our listeners, go to greenchef.com/90ifpodcast, and use the code, 90IFPODCAST, to get $90 off including free shipping. That's greenchef.com/90ifpodcast and use code 90IFPODCAST to get $90 off, including free shipping. You’ll be glad you did. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well. Now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Her next question. She says, “Now to the ketones, I promise I’m not chasing ketones, but out of curiosity, I have been testing them. The same day I tested blood glucose, I tested my ketone level 12 hours into my fast, and it was 1.4 millimoles per liter. Yippy, ketosis. But then I tested again 20 hours into my fast after an hour-long workout consisting of HIIT, strength training and flexibility, and it was down to 0.3. I thought longer fasting hours and exercise were supposed to promote ketosis. Could you shed any light as to why my ketone level dropped so significantly after a workout and longer fasting?”

Gin Stephens: Yes, because your body used some of that energy while you were doing that heavy workout, and so [laughs] that is one reason why I don't want you to-- as you said in your in your subject “chasing ketones” because they can confuse you. You think, you're like, “Well, look, I fasted longer and I worked out. I’m surely burning more fat, surely I’m going to have higher ketone levels.” But remember, the ketones circulating in your blood are the ones you're not using. You're using them for all sorts of things, so as we get adapted fewer will be floating around in our blood even as we get more and more into the lifestyle. The more experienced you get as a faster, the fewer ketones you'll have over time and then you'll be like, “Wait, I’m no longer going into ketosis. My ketones are lower.” No, that's not what that shows. So, I wouldn't get discouraged by that at all. We're not trying to have high ketone numbers.

Melanie Avalon: I think we've probably talked about this last week, and Gin already said it a little bit, but basically the blood ketones that you're measuring are in a way the storage form of the ketone. So, you would expect if you're using them for that marker to go down. Compared to for example breath ketones, and I talked about this last week, but they are a byproduct of burning ketones. Actually, if Liz had a breath monitor, if it was ketones that she was burning, we would expect that to actually go up from this exercise. Yeah, totally, completely normal.

Gin Stephens: Yep, totally normal.

Melanie Avalon: Right. Then she also says, “I plan to stop testing ketones after I’ve made it to the 28-day clean fasting mark, but I have just ordered a Nutrisense CGM using Melanie's coupon code.” Thank you, so excited. “I will continue to test blood glucose. Can't wait to insert my CGM while listening to Taylor Swift.” The reason she said that, one of my videos on Instagram speaking of-- I have some videos on my Instagram of how to put on a CGM, and of course, they are to the soundtrack of Taylor Swift, all of them are. She says, “Thank you for all that you do in the IF world, I am so thrilled to be a part of it.” I think, Liz, when you do get that CGM, you will feel a lot better actually about your blood glucose because you'll see how normal it is for it to be changing all the time. I think it'll give you a lot more clarity about everything.

For listeners, if you'd like to get your own Nutrisense CGM, the code for that that Liz used is go to melanieavalon.com/nutrisensecgm. That's N-U-T-R-I-S-E-N-S-E CGM and use the coupon code, MELANIEAVALON, and that will get you 15% off of any of their packages, with the exception of-- I think they have a trial one, I don't think it will work on that, but otherwise, you can use that 15% off on anything. Awesome.

Gin Stephens: All right, are we ready to move on?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: All right. We have a question from Michelle. She says, “The most important question asked thus far.” Well, that's quite a buildup, Michelle. [laughs] All right, here we go. “Hi, Melanie, and Gin. I love you ladies and all the content you give out to all of us. I have heard you both mention that you will just drink a glass or a tablespoon of wine. How do you keep your wine, so it doesn't go bad? I enjoy a glass but find myself dumping it or cooking with it if I haven't had it within two days. What do you ladies do? Unfortunately, my husband doesn't drink wine. So, I’ve had no one to share my bottle with Thanks for the help to this very important question. Thanks, Michelle, from Buffalo, New York.” I almost didn't read that part, but there it is.

Melanie Avalon: I think this is a very important question. By the way, for listeners, I’ve moved past a tablespoon of wine. I’m back to normal amounts. I use Vacu Vin, I think is the brand. It's like the rubber wine stoppers and you pump out the extra air. She says he drinks it within two days. I find that it keeps it pretty well for at least four or five days. Yeah, I’ll put a link in the show notes to that. The show notes by the way are at ifpodcast.com/ episode208. Do you have any comments, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Ditto. Same thing. That's exactly what we use. I think it's a Vacu Vin, I think that's what it is, and it pumps out the air and you put the little stopper in, and it keeps it for a long time. Oh, and I also for bubbly things, use one of those champagne bottle stoppers that folds down over the rim and holds it in place and you also pump out the air a little bit. Those will keep the bubbles in for a long time. One time, I was at the beach, and then I left for two weeks and I came back and there was still a bottle that had been in the fridge and it still had bubbles. It wasn't like original bubbles like from the day we opened it. It wasn't as good, but it was still bubbly.

Melanie Avalon: When I worked in restaurants for five years, that's what they use usually, those pumper systems. By the way for the Vacu Vin, they have one where you can get colored stoppers, it's like purple, blue, and pink. They're so amazing, just in case you want some color. All right, shall we go to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: This comes from Rhonda. “Hello, questions.” “I’ve been fasting for 206 days, usually 16:8. Day by day, my number kept coming down each day. December, I reached my lowest weight of 132.8. My goal is 130. Since Christmas, my number has steadily been going up. Today, I was 138. Nothing has really changed with my food or activities. Any suggestions as to why this happened? What can I do to get it turned around and moving back down again? Please let me know. Thanks so much.”

Gin Stephens: All right. Well, unfortunately, I don't know much about how much you lost altogether, or what's happening, your size, your height, it's hard to really answer completely. Y'all, when you're writing in, the more details you can give us the better, like what was your starting weight? How much have you lost? Has your size changed? The scale is not a good picture always of what's happening. Someone could go from 132.8 to 138 and actually get smaller in size if you've lost fat and put on muscle. Just knowing that you went from 132.8 to 138 doesn't let me know anything about what your body is doing. You might be just slimmer today than you were then because you’ve, like I said, lost fat and built muscle, but maybe your pants are tight and you know you're gaining fat, and that's a whole different question. If that's what's happened, then probably something has changed because when we do gain weight or lose weight, there's something changing, but you've got to figure out what that is.

Sometimes, I’ve noticed in the community over the years, somebody will be like, “Well, I thought my fasts were X, Y, Z. Then, I started tracking it on an app, I realized, ‘Oh, it really wasn't that.’ Once you really start looking at what you're doing, you realize maybe you have had an extra dessert every day that you weren't having before, or something has changed. When you really look closely, maybe you can figure out what that is. Again, it may just be an indication of muscle gain and fat loss, and your body is changing. I want you to use other tools. Take photos, use your honesty, pants, all sorts of things. Then, you'll really know what's happening. The scale alone is really meaningless.

Melanie Avalon: I don't really have anything to add.

Gin Stephens: Okay. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Next question.

Gin Stephens: We have a question from Leah. the subject is “Podcast Resources.” She says, “Melanie and Gin, I’ve been listening to your podcast for years. I feel like both of you are just old friends. I have had so much success with intermittent fasting, and I have persuaded so many people to adopt the lifestyle as well. I have a different question not related to IAF, which is, do you have any advice or resources that you would recommend for starting a podcast? I’m interested in everything from what sort of equipment I would need, to tutorials, from books and websites. This is a dream of mine, but I don't even know where to begin. Thanks so much for all that you do all the best, Leah.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Leah. Well, thank you so much for your question. The first thing I will say is-- the first step is exactly what you're doing is asking somebody who's done a podcast how to do it, because that's actually how I started ours. One of my really good friends had a big podcast, so I just asked him what to do and then I just did exactly what he said. Here we are. Basically, as far as the components, which I really encourage anybody who wants to start a podcast to do so, I really like people to follow their creative dreams. This is appropriate because we're talking about all the stuff behind the scenes, there's a lot that goes into podcasting. I think people think that-- well, I don't know if people think this, but it might seem like we just show up and record and then release it, but there's a lot. There's a lot involved. I guess the components of things that you need are, equipment-wise, you need a pretty good mic, sound quality is so important. I have one called HyperX, I'm trying to think. I think that's the brand. It's amazing. It lights up bright red, which mic do you have, Gin?

Gin Stephens: What is it called, the one you told me to get?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, the one I originally had. Audio-Technica AT2020USB.

Gin Stephens: Yep.

Melanie Avalon: That's what Gin had. We can put links to this. We'll put links in the show notes to what we have. There are a lot of different platforms that you can record on to connect if you're doing it with a co-host or interviewing somebody. There are platforms that allow you to talk, it's like Zoom, but it records it, so then you have the tracks. Gin and I use SquadCast right now for Intermittent Fasting Podcast, I use Zencastr for the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. And then, there's the editing process. Originally when we started the show, I edited everything. Now, we have editors that do that for us, so we actually use podcast doctors for our show. I think Gin use Resonate.

Gin Stephens: I do. Resonate Recordings does mine. That was the biggest freeing moment for me is when I realized, when I wanted to start Intermittent Fasting Stories, I had Melanie for Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Melanie was doing all the editing. Melanie knew how to upload it in podcast platforms and make it magically show up. I didn't know how to do any of that. I got this book Melanie called Podcasting For Dummies. I got that book and I’m like, “I’m going to figure this out.” I can do this. I’m going to learn how to edit. Then I was reading it, I’m like, it was talking about Libsyn and all these-- this was a while ago, it was like 2018. We've come a long way since then, even, but I’m like, “I have no idea what I’m doing. Wait a minute, I could pay someone to do this.” I just started looking and googled and found a company and found Resonate Recordings just from Google. I just googled and found them, and they are awesome, Resonate Recordings is, and I was like, “Hey,” they had a launch package that--

Melanie Avalon: Wait, we had been at Resonate though before.

Gin Stephens: We tried them out after I was already using them.

Melanie Avalon: Really?

Gin Stephens: Yep, I used them first, and then we use them a little bit for editing because you were still doing all the editing at that point.

Melanie Avalon: Oh.

Gin Stephens: It's a long time ago, but you were doing-- I remember completely, you were doing all the editing. Then, it was after Resonate was editing mine, you were like, “Let's try this one.” I’m like, “Sure. It's fine with me.”

Melanie Avalon: Oh. I have that backwards in my head.

Gin Stephens: They're a little pricier. Melanie was looking for a more cost effective-- They're not expensive, but I certainly can understand looking for someone that costs less. Resonate Recordings is a little pricier, but I just really enjoyed working with them. Also, it's easy just to stay there. I like them. I have a person that works with me, and I can ask to really do almost anything, and they help me a lot. Anyway, they had everything, a launch package. They helped me set up the website for it, they helped me get it everywhere. Could I have done it all myself? Sure. Could I have learned how to edit it? Yes. Did I want to? Did I have time to? No. So, it's nice to be able to have that resource.

Melanie Avalon: Then on top of that, the podcast actually has to go on a platform.

Gin Stephens: You have to have a host.

Melanie Avalon: A host. We have been hosted all over the place. Friends, it's like moving when you move between hosts and platforms. We have been at Podbean, we've been at Megaphone, we've been at ART19, we're back at Podbean, we've contemplated going to other hosts. I think we might actually do that. The host is in charge of-- they basically store the episodes, and then they provide the feed that all of these podcast players are reading to pick up the episodes. There's a lot involved.

Gin Stephens: Oh, and Resonate Recordings also will host you. They didn't used to have that feature, or I would just be hosted with them probably still to this day. Our Life Lessons podcast is edited and hosted by Resonate. It's so easy, Melanie, all you do is click Approve episode, and then you've already put the date in and just automatically, you don't have to go somewhere else and put it there.

Melanie Avalon: Nice.

Gin Stephens: It's amazing. Intermittent Fasting Stories was hosted on Podbean and then I moved to Megaphone and then I moved to ART19. I’m still on ART19.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, although can I tell you something fun?

Gin Stephens: Yes, on dddsocialnetwork.com, you can listen to ad-free episodes of Intermittent Fasting Stories. Yep, I have a special place for them because Resonate, they're hosting them also. Actually, my podcast is hosted in two places. Resonate is hosting the ad-free version. I’m going to upload those early, so you will get them before Thursday. You just go to dddsocialnetwork.com. In the Intermittent Fasting Stories Podcast Group, there's a forum and each podcast episode has a different forum entry, so you can just listen to it right there. No ads are inserted. You're not going to have them at all. You can also discuss the episode right under there in the little forum. There's a place to discuss it with other people that are listening to it, so I’m really excited about that feature, and you can listen to all of them. I uploaded all of them. Oh, can I tell you a funny story?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: I was doing this the other night at like 9 PM. I was uploading all the episodes because I had them in another place, but they all had to load and it was really clunky and I’m like I got to put them in these forums, this is going to be better because people were complaining they couldn't get under load and it would take a while. I understood, 139 episodes were having to load, it took a long time. I moved them. I was doing them one by one, boom, boom, moving them in, moving them in. Then I got this email from this girl. She's like, “I just got over 100 emails from you.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Oh gosh.

Gin Stephens: Her notification in the new platform was set to all or something or instant. Every time I upload it, I’m like, “I’m so sorry. One day, we will laugh about this.” But she got 139 emails.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. It's crazy.

Gin Stephens: I’m like, “I’m so sorry. I promise not to spam you. Okay, here you go. 139 emails from Gin.” We were laughing about it. Anyway, I thought that was funny.

Melanie Avalon: My goodness, that's really funny.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. What's great though? This new platform, the dddsocialnetwork.com is $59.95 a year, which is $4.99 a month. I don't know if listeners have been around since we were on Himalaya. I was a Himalaya premium podcast, which had a different feed that you could be a member for. If you subscribe through Himalaya premium, you got an ad-free version of Intermittent Fasting Stories for $4.99 a month. That's all you got. For $4.99 a month you got ad free Intermittent Fasting Stories, and you got them a day early, and I had a bunch of people who subscribe to that. Then that went away Himalaya, did made some changes, the ad free version was no more. This new platform dddsocialnetwork.com, you not only get the ad-free version, but you also get the whole community.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, so much more.

Gin Stephens: For the same price that people were paying for just getting the ad-free version.

Melanie Avalon: It's pretty incredible.

Gin Stephens: I think it's worth $4.99, even if you never go to the community just to have ad free versions of the podcast because you don't have to-- it's not interrupted and wherever the ad might pop in.

Melanie Avalon: Which actually to clarify, I'm glad you brought up the ads. It's another reason why hearing all of that, there's a lot that's involved in producing the podcast. It costs us a lot of money to create it, so that's why we're so grateful that we do have companies that we can work with.

Gin Stephens: Oh, we are. Yeah, I’m not dissing the ads at all. Thank you to everyone who advertises.

Melanie Avalon: I love the brands we work with.

Gin Stephens: Me too.

Melanie Avalon: They're all companies and products I personally use and adore and want everybody to experience. So, everybody wins. It's a wonderful situation.

Gin Stephens: Yes. I’m not anti-ads, because [laughs] everything's got to-- We love the podcast, but this is our job. We're making a living from it. You can either listen to ads, or you can pay us a different way, like Peter Attia does with his platform. Everyone who releases content is paid for that content by someone. You might have to do some digging to figure out who pays them for doing it. Very few people are just creating content for free.

Melanie Avalon: At least not if it's a full-time commitment.

Gin Stephens: Correct. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Which it is, because we don't just have this show. We have our other shows as well.

Gin Stephens: Yep, three podcasts is a lot, Melanie. I have three, and I love them. I love doing them. It's actually one of my favorite parts of what I do.

Melanie Avalon: I’m forever perpetually grateful.

Gin Stephens: Me too. Thank you all for listening.

Melanie Avalon: It is a shocking amount of time-

Gin Stephens: Yeah, it is.

Melanie Avalon: -spent. I mean, it's what I do.

Gin Stephens: When we get off today, I’ve got to record-- wait, one, two, three, I have to record six ads because Intermittent Fasting Stories is still going to have ads, just only if you're not listening to them in my platform, you'll still get the ads popped in, but I have to record two for Intermittent Fasting Podcast and four for Intermittent Fasting Stories.

Melanie Avalon: Yep, and then the prep work and everything.

Gin Stephens: It's a lot of work to record ads to. That sounds so weird, and you have to do them again. I’m like, “That sounds weird,” then I have to do it again, I don't know. Talking to you seems reasonable but we're recording ads, I feel like I’m so fake.

Melanie Avalon: I love recording ads.

Gin Stephens: I don't. I don't love it.

Melanie Avalon: I don't love it, but I don't feel fake doing it. I feel very authentic. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: I love the products. Don't get me wrong.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, I didn't mean it that way.

Gin Stephens: I’m about to record one for Green Chef, and I love Green Chef. We're having Green Chef for dinner, I’m not making that up. I really, really love it. The number of companies we say no to is remarkable. People don't understand that either. I'm like, “No, I’m not going to endorse that company because I don't like that company or like their product.” But I still feel weird when I’m recording it. I’ll talk to you all day about Green Chef, but if I have to tell you this ad about Green Chef, it feels weird.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it doesn't feel weird to me. I just pretend like I’m just talking about it to somebody normally.

Melanie Avalon: I have a hard time with that. Again, you're a trained actress. I wonder if that has some that-- you can be-- Whereas I’m just like, I don't know. [laughs] I’m just like this teacher over here. I just want to talk to you.

Hi friends, I want to tell you about a device that has had truly magical effects on my life. A few years ago, I was doing chelation therapy for mercury, and it was actually creating a lot of bruising in my veins. My doctor pulled out this device and placed it on my veins. The bruising was gone the next day. Fast forward a year or so, and I was seeing a chiropractor for some muscle soreness and he pulled out this same device, used it on my shoulder, and it incredibly relieved my tightness and soreness. Here's the thing, I didn't realize this device was available to the general public, but it is. It's called Theragun. It was created by Dr. Jason Wersland, who suffered severe pain from a motorcycle accident.

Theragun is a handheld percussive therapy device, and it releases your deepest muscle tension using a scientifically calibrated combo of depth, speed, and power. Their new Gen 4 version is as quiet as an electric toothbrush. It doesn't just feel good, it actually gets to the source of the pain by releasing your deepest tension. The percussive therapy used by the device actually goes 60% deeper than vibration alone. Whether you want to treat your muscle tension from working out, a specific injury or just deal with the stresses of everyday life, there's really no substitute for the Theragun Gen 4. It's OLED screen and design feels like you're holding something from the future. You can go to their website if you'd like to see it. And Theragun app learns from your behaviors and actually suggests guided routines. In fact, Theragun is trusted by 250 professional sports teams, that includes Real Madrid and elite athletes like Paul George, DeAndre Hopkins, Maria Sharapova, hundreds of thousands of customers. And of course, me.

Guess what? Our audience can try Theragun for 30 days starting at only $199. Just go to theragun.com/ifpodcast right now, and you can get your Gen 4 Theragun today, completely risk free for 30 days. Again, that's theragun.com/ifpodcast. All right, now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Our next question is from Maureen. She says, “I started IF for a second time in mid-October 2020 after you did a webinar at my work,” you did a--

Gin Stephens: I did a webinar. Yes, I did. I did a webinar.

Melanie Avalon: At her work?

Gin Stephens: Yes. A Mutual of Omaha webinar, they invited me, the company. This was so exciting Mutual of Omaha, they're a big insurance company in the Midwest like Omaha. That's where they're from. Have you heard of Mutual of Omaha, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Um, I don't think so.

Gin Stephens: Well, the reason probably my age, we all know them, because they used to sponsor TV shows we would watch, like the Disney show on Sunday nights or something was sponsored by Mutual of Omaha. I think we all remember those commercials. That's what I think of them anyway. They're a big insurance company. They're really big in the Midwest. They reached out to me and said, “Would you do a webinar about Fast. Feast. Repeat.?” Then I was super excited, because whenever a big company asks you to do something, that is really a big endorsement. They wanted me to talk about fasting. I went to my moderator, we have a little private group, and I’m like, “Guess what? Mutual of Omaha wants me to do a webinar.” One of my moderators said, “My husband is an executive at Mutual of Omaha.” Then they looked into who was asking me, and then both of them, my moderator friend, and her husband came on the webinar with me because they're both intermittent fasters. It wasn't her husband who said, “Y'all should do this.” That was totally unrelated. It was a coincidence.

Melanie Avalon: It's crazy.

Gin Stephens: It was crazy, but it felt wonderful to be asked to do that. It was a lot of pressure. I’m like, “Uh-oh. I’ve got to be on camera and do a webinar,” but I loved it. I don't want to do another one anytime soon, because it was a lot of pressure. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Well, Maureen was present there.

Gin Stephens: She was there. Thank you, Maureen. I’m glad you were there.

Melanie Avalon: She says, “I realized I wasn't doing the clean fast. I’m doing an 18:6 most days. I have only about 4 to 5 pounds, and I want to lose 10 more. What advice do you have? Or, better alternatives do you have for a chocoholic like me?” She also wants to know if, I, Melanie, have ever been overweight? She says, “I listen to you ladies, IF podcast and love your different views.” I’ve never been overweight by BMI standards. I don't think, I’d have to look up.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, because you found intermittent fasting in college. If we all think back to college, the time in college-- Well, not all of us, a lot of us when we were teens and in college, we felt like we were maybe needed to lose a little weight. When we look back on that period of time, we realized we really didn't, like, we may have been a little over the weight where we felt our best, but we weren't technically overweight. That's not always true. Sometimes, people are overweight in college. I can remember feeling like I needed to go on a diet in college. Really, I was within a healthy weight range the whole time. I think that's probably true for you. That certainly was my college experience. I wasn't overweight, but I was sure dieting.

Melanie Avalon: The highest I got was probably at the upper end of normal weight. As far as the chocoholic question, I’m assuming this isn't in her eating window, right?

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. She's not having chocolate during the fast because she understands the clean fast. She's definitely not doing it, then.

Melanie Avalon: I’m guessing she is thinking the chocolate is a hindrance and her weight loss, which I would encourage her to reframe. You might be able to continue having chocolate. If it is a problem in your weight, I would guess it's probably from the processed normal chocolate bars and candies that we think of. I would suggest getting really high percent low sugar, high chocolate cacao versions. Is it cocoa or cacao percent?

Gin Stephens: Huh, I don't know. I would say cocoa, but I don't know. Anyway, look for the high number, big number.

Melanie Avalon: If you go to whole foods, I know they have a pretty good chocolate section there, and you can find some that are really, really high and then that are low in sugar. I don't know what diet you're doing. If that is not enough, you could make your own. You could get-- again, I don't know if it's our cacao or cocoa powder, but you could get the pure unsweetened powder and you could sweeten it-- If the carbs are an issue, you could sweeten it with something like stevia or monk fruit, like you can find recipes to make your own chocolate. Then if it's just because you want to cut out chocolate, I don't know what alternative you're looking for. Gin, do you have ideas?

Gin Stephens: Well, the thing that really gets to me here that-- she only wants to lose 10 pounds. Again, just like with the question we had earlier, it's really hard to know within the context of-- like you mentioned BMI before. I know BMI isn’t perfect, but losing 10 more pounds, like for example, where I am right now, if I decided like based on a scale number, if I got on a scale tomorrow and saw a number and I didn't like it and said, “I need to lose two more pounds on the scale,” I would have a really hard time doing it, my body wouldn't want to lose two more pounds. This is a weight where my body really wants to be. But I’m also in a healthy weight range. It's hard to know. If Maureen wants to lose 10 more pounds, maybe Maureen is overweight, and she's in the overweight BMI range, and her goal is to lose 10 more so she's just in the normal weight range, but barely, then it would be logical for her to lose 10 more pounds if she's in the overweight range. Am I making sense?

But if she's like solidly in the healthy weight range, and just wants to lose 10 more pounds, maybe her body doesn't want to do that. We're all different when it comes to our bodies preferred size and where our body wants to be and where it's easy for us to stay. We can get a preconceived idea, but if I decided I wanted to lose 10 more pounds, I would have a very challenging time doing that, and keeping it off. I guess, I’m so very fortunate and blessed, and I admit this, I know it. I’m so fortunate that the weight my body has settled in for these past six years, because I’ve been in maintenance for six years, the weight my body has settled in, this weight range, is one where I feel amazing. I’m very lucky there, and I do not discount someone who wants to lose 10 pounds to feel the way they want to feel. I know that's got to be hard. I feel your pain, but it's very hard to lose beyond a weight where your body is happy, and maintain it and live a lifestyle. I could lose 10 pounds, but I’d have to really diet and restrict and be hardcore. I don't want to live that way.

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. With the chocolate, it sounds like since she self-identifies as a chocoholic, maybe it's a trigger food, or maybe she has trouble stopping eating it, I would do one of the suggestions I said. Also, a good thing about making your own is, it's not like you can just keep buying it like, you have to keep making it. That puts a limit on it. Or, it might just be an all or none approach where you just say no, and you find something else to replace that with. When it comes to habits, it is really important to replace whatever the habit that you want to change with something else, so you're still getting that response in the brain that you're looking for, that pleasurable response. Otherwise, the brain is going to like look to fill that void with something. It doesn't even have to be a food that you replace it with. I don't know when you're eating the chocolate, but if it's a dessert thing at the end of your meal, and you just keep eating, maybe you change it completely and you replace the end of your meal with some sort of activity, like a gratitude journal or replacing it with something else completely. You can replace the chocolate with other versions of chocolate, or with something else completely. That was a lot.

Gin Stephens: It's just really hard to say. Now, Maureen, again, I could go back and give a little more answer. If you really do need to lose 10 pounds, like you're overweight and you need to lose 10 and you know your body can lose those 10, then it's time to do some tweaking in your eating window. 18:6 was not my body's weight loss magical sweet spot. I would go back to Fast. Feast. Repeat. and look at the Intermittent Fasting Toolbox chapter and figure out how you can do some adjusting there to see the weight loss that you're looking for.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Last comment. I just feel like I should emphasize this every time now. I really think when it comes to macros, focusing on protein for weight loss and satiety can be really, really a game changer. A high-protein diet, either low carb, high fat, or high carb low fat-- It's funny, Gin, I posted in my group, tell me you listen to my shows without telling me. Have you seen that before?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: The comments, you would love it. A lot of them involve you.

Gin Stephens: Oh, tell me some of them.

Melanie Avalon: The reason I thought about it is a lot of people have said high carb, low fat, or low carb high fat is the answer. It has 156 comments.

Gin Stephens: That's so fun.

Melanie Avalon: It's actually a lot of like our sponsor stuff, people saying like, I use Joovv or ButcherBox, blah, blah, blah. One is, “Anything from you, Gin, before you go?” One is always, “What are you grateful for?” “I love this so much.” “I do my research.” Funfetti, all the things. Oh, there was one about you and us disagreeing on things. Wait, let me find it. Gin, anything else from you?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, love it.

Melanie Avalon: Sorry. That was a lot. Anything to add, Gin?

[laughter]

Melanie Avalon: Yes. How would you say you listen to our show, Gin, without telling us?

Gin Stephens: Oh, gosh, now I’m on the spot. Maybe I would just say, “I don't know.” [laughs] You always ask me a question, like, “Do you know?” I say, “I don't know.”

Melanie Avalon: Well, somebody did this on Instagram and somebody replied, “I did not know that.” [laughs]

Gin Stephens: I did not know that. Yeah, there you go. I did not know that. That's right. That would be what I would say. “No, I did not know that.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Somebody commented on how we're opposites and everything. I said I feel like the conversation with that normally goes-- like something comes up and then I say, “See, we're opposites on everything.” Then you say, “No, we're not.” I’m just like, “Okay.” [laughs] But we are.

Gin Stephens: We're not totally the opposite on everything.

Melanie Avalon: See? That's what you always say. [laughs] It cracks me up.

Gin Stephens: Well, we're not.

Melanie Avalon: I know. I know. Okay, goodness, good times. In any case, for listeners, if you'd like to submit your own questions to the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode208. You can follow us on Instagram, our unverified Instagrams. I’m MelanieAvalon, Gin is GinStephens. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: Nope, Not a thing. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: All right.

Gin Stephens: I'm going to start doing some wacky answers. Let me think.

Melanie Avalon: I’ll be ready.

Gin Stephens: Okay, next time.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. I'm going to be ready. All right. Well, I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right, you too. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know!