Search Results for: longo

May 21

Episode 57: Dr. Valter Longo!: The Fasting Mimicking Diet, Eating For Longevity, High Vs. Low Protein Diets, Ancestry Diets, Meat Vs. Plant Diets, Rebuilding The Gut, Food Tolerances, Mindset And The Immune System, The Blue Zones, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

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Welcome to Episode 57 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Hi Friends! You can support us and help keep our podcast and research going, by pledging on Patreon! Every dollar helps!! It would seriously mean the world and help SO much!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

ABOUT Dr. Valter Longo

Dr. Valter Longo, Professor of Gerontology and Biological Science and Director of The Longevity Institute at the School of Gerontology at USC, is one of the world's premier experts on living longer, healthier lives. He's been dubbed "The Guru of Longevity" by TIME Magazine. Dr. Longo is interested in understanding the fundamental mechanisms of aging in yeast, mice and humans by using genetics and biochemistry techniques and identifying the molecular pathways conserved from simple organisms to humans that can be modulated to protect against multiple stresses and treat or prevent cancer, Alzheimer’s Disease and other diseases of aging. The focus is on the signal transduction pathways that regulate resistance to oxidative damage in yeast and mice.

Dr. Longo's new book, The Longevity Diet: Discover the New Science Behind Stem Cell Activation and Regeneration to Slow Aging, Fight Disease, and Optimize Weight, is the one-stop guide to his research and philosophies on aging healthier and extending life expectancy. It's medical approach is based on his 5 Pillars of Longevity, where each pillar looks at several key factors that influence our chances of optimal health. The practical application of which combines a healthy, every day, pescatarian eating plan (the "Longevity Diet") with a 5-day fasting-mimicking diet, or FMD, done intermittently throughout the year. 

Follow Valter Longo on Facebook

SHOW NOTES

4:00 - Dr. Longo's Background

5:20 - What Are The Longevity Diet And Fasting Mimicking Diet (FMD?)

6:20 - How Does The FMD Compare To Intermittent Fasting?

9:00 - How Does The FMD Compare To Keto?

10:55 - When Should Someone Do A FMD?

13:45 - What Are The Health Benefits Of the FMD?

15:05 - What Is Prolon?

Dr. Longo's Prolon FMD

17:07 - How Does Dr. Longo Feel About Homemade Versions Of The FMD?

Melanie's Blog Post: The Fasting-Mimicking Diet: Eat Your Way Through A Long Fast?

17:07 - How Does Dr. Longo Feel About Homemade Versions Of The FMD?

21:30 - What Is Juventology?

22:40 - How And Why Should You Eat Based On Your Ancestry?

25:00 - What Commonalities Are There In The Blue Zones?

27:50 - How Far Back Do You Need To Look In Determining Ancestral Diet?

29:10 - What About People Who Suffer With GI Distress From Lots Of Plant

34:05 - What About People Who Thrive On Higher Protein Diets?

36:45 - Tips For Rebuilding Gut And Adding In Foods? 

36:45 - Tips For Rebuilding Gut And Adding In Foods?

38:45 - Should You Use Probiotics?

40:30 - Why Are We Seeing So Many Degernative Diseases Today?

42:20 - How Does Mindset Affect Our Food And Immune System?

44:00 - What Does The Longevity Diet Look Like? 

48:35 - What Are The Five Pillars Of Longevity?

52:55 - Why Do We Need Higher Protein When Older?

55:00 - Centenarians Who Eat Whatever They Want (Genetics Explained)

58:10 - Three Principals To Support Health And Longevity?

1:10 - Dr. Longo's Typical Diet... What Has He Eaten Today? 

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

REFERENCES

LINKS

More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com  

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

BUY Delay Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle and Feast Without Fear: Food and the Delay, Don't Deny Lifestyle

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Sep 19

Episode 231: Dawn Phenomenon, Instant Coffee, Hidden Sugars, Added Color In Wine, Gluconeogenesis, Unexpected Hunger, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 231 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BUTCHERBOX: Grass-Fed Beef, Organic Chicken, Heritage Pork, Wild-Caught Seafood: Nutrient-Rich, Raised Sustainably The Way Nature Intended, And Shipped Straight To Your Door! For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And New Members Will Get Free Ground Beef FOR LIFE!

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To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And New Members Will Get Free Ground Beef FOR LIFE!

3:20 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

Stay Up To Date With All The News And Pre-Order Info About Melanie's New Serrapeptase Supplement At Melanieavalon.Com/Serrapeptase!

15:20 - Listener Feedback: Andrea - chronic inflammation getting better quickly!

20:30 - AUDIBLE: Go To audible.com/ifpodcast Or Text IFPODCAST To 500500 For A 30 Day Free Trial, Including A Free Audiobook! 

22:45 - Listener Feedback: Diane - Just listening to your #226 podcast.

Go To Melanieavalon.Com/NutrisenseCGM And Use Coupon Code MelanieAvalon For 15% Off Select Packages

Skip The (115,000 Person!) Waitlist By Going To Melanieavalon.Com/LevelsCGM With The Coupon Code MelanieAvalon!

30:55 - Listener Q&A: Pam - OMG! My instant coffee is full of sugar!

DRY FARM WINES: Natural, Organic, Low Alcohol, Low Sugar Wines, Paleo And Keto Friendly! Go To dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast To Get A Bottle For A Penny!

38:15 - Listener Q&A: Bill - Blood Glucose

46:05 - FEALS: Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

48:45 - Listener Q&A: Teresa - Hungry after 6 months on clean IF

55:55 - Listener Q&A: Allie - Alternate daily fasting?

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 231 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.  

Friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get free grass-fed, grass-finished ground beef for life. Yes, for life. We are huge fans of a company called ButcherBox. As you guys know, to get high quality humanely raised meat that you can trust. ButcherBox is the solution. They deliver 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef, free-range organic chicken, heritage-breed pork, nitrate-free sugar-free bacon, heritage-breed hotdogs, and wild-caught seafood all directly to your door. When you become a member, you're joining a community that is focused on doing what's better for all parties. That means caring about the lives of animals, the livelihoods of farmers, treating our planet with respect, and enjoying better nourishing meals together. They go to great lengths to ensure the highest quality so you can find actual 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef. If you've seen the Netflix documentary, Seaspiracy, you might be aware of fish fraud and problems in the seafood industry. ButcherBox maintains very, very high standards for that, and the whole process is so easy. They deliver all of this directly to your door. Once you sign up, you choose your box and your delivery frequency, they offer five boxes, four curated box options as well as the popular custom box, so with that one you can get exactly what you and your family love. They ship your order frozen at the peak freshness and packed in a 100% recyclable box, and the shipping is always free. So, basically ButcherBox makes it easy so that you can focus on cooking amazing meals, not spending hours searching for meat that meets your standards and save money in the process. 

What's super amazing is ButcherBox makes sure their members are taken care of, and today we have a special offer just for our listeners. ButcherBox is giving new members free ground beef for life. Yes, for life. You can sign up at butcherbox.com/ifpodcast and you will get two pounds of ground beef free in every order for the life of your membership. Just log on to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast to claim this deal. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. 

And one more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. So, when you're putting on your conventional skincare and makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. Did you know that conventional lipstick for example often tests high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. 

Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter 

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list. And join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now enjoy the show. 

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is episode number 231 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Gin Stephens. 

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.  

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?  

Gin Stephens: I am great, still at the beach. 

Melanie Avalon: Exciting. 

Gin Stephens: It is. I've really enjoyed it. I had a friend that came and stayed with me, and then another friend came and stayed with me, and now, Will is on his way to come and spend a few days, and then I'll be going home.  

Melanie Avalon: Nice.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, we have a renter that's going to be here for the entire month of September. [laughs] I'm going to have to switch everything over. It's different for when you're staying here versus when you're renting it. Anyway, I've really enjoyed my time here. It's just beautiful. The water is so warm in the ocean.  

Melanie Avalon: That is nice.  

Gin Stephens: It is. Yeah. What's up with you? 

Melanie Avalon: Do you know what's exciting about Episode 231?  

Gin Stephens: Well, I don't.  

Melanie Avalon: Every time we hit a one, like 31, 41, a 51, that's when I re-record the intros for the next 10 episodes, and it's like a marker and time. Because I guess that's what, two and a half months, and I always just feels like just yesterday that I was recording.  

Gin Stephens: Time is flying. Yeah.  

Melanie Avalon: It's so weird. It's so weird. I have a funny story. I don't know if I should share it. 

Gin Stephens: Well, then you totally should.  

Melanie Avalon: I did something crazy.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, well. Everyone wants to hear this. Everyone's saying, "Share it, share it, share it." [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. Okay. I did something kind of crazy last night.  

Gin Stephens: Well, if you think it's crazy, it's found to be crazy. Go ahead. Okay, share it.  

Melanie Avalon: Okay, you can let me know if this is crazy. I don't know. Okay. [laughs] I've had like a miniature crush on this guy who works at a Whole Foods here for four years, and I really want to talk to him, but every time I go into Whole Foods, I don't go into Whole Foods when I'm dressed up and looking nice, because why would I do that? So, I was like, “How do I be at Whole Foods dressed up and nice and talk to him?” But I don't want to dress up and go to Whole Foods. If he's not there, it's just silly. Yesterday, it was a Friday, and I saw him during the day, and I was like, “Oh, well. I could dress up, and it's Friday. And then, I could come back later, and it would make sense that I would be going to Whole Foods dressed up on a Friday night.” Like I could pick out some wine, it would make sense like why I was there in a cocktail dress. Then, I can go home and I can take selfies for Instagram and stock up, so, it'll all be productive. So, I literally went to Whole Foods at 8:30 in a cocktail dress, full done up with makeup and then just went and sat in the wine section.  

Gin Stephens: At 8:30 in the morning? 

Melanie Avalon: No, at night. [laughs] Then, I didn't think he was there. I was like, “Oh, well, I guess I'm here for no reason,” and then he walked by me and I almost fainted.  

Gin Stephens: Well, did you talk to him? 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Then, I was like, “Oh, my gosh, [giggles] what do I do?” Then, I picked out a wine, and then I just awkwardly walked around--  

Gin Stephens: Holding your wine?  

Melanie Avalon: Holding my wine because I wasn't sure where he was. I was like, "I have to have an agenda, what am I doing?"  

Gin Stephens: That's so funny. I can just picture it. I'm imagining you in your cocktail dress. [laughs]   

Melanie Avalon: He was at the cashier. Then I hey went to the cashier, and he was like, “Hello.” I was like, “Hello.” He was like, “Are you going out?” I was like, “Yes.” [laughs] He's never asked me a question in my entire life. In my defense, I was going out. I was going outside after leaving. 

Gin Stephens: Well, there you go. There you go.  

Melanie Avalon: He was like, “You look nice.” I was like, “Thank you.” Then, I had this [laughs] whole plan orchestrated because I wanted to have an activity to do with him at the cashier register. When you have cards that-- it's like a prepaid card that has a random amount on it, and you need to use $3.11. So, I had two of those. I was like, “I need help with something.” I was like, “Can you help me with this?” Then, it was super awkward and embarrassing because I hadn't used those cards in forever, so, I couldn't remember the pins. Then he did come around and help me, and it was so embarrassing, and then I left. 

Gin Stephens: Well, you've made contact. Now, I have to give you advice from a 52-year-old who's been in a 30-year marriage.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes.  

Gin Stephens: You need to meet him looking scruffy next.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, but he's seen me scruffy every day. That's the thing.  

Gin Stephens: That's what people see most of the time around the house is scruffy. You don't need them to like you looking dressed up. You need for them to like you scruffy. 

Melanie Avalon: He knows what I look like, because he sees me. Well, I don't know. Maybe I look so different that he doesn't realize I'm the same person. I don't know. I was like, “Mission accomplished.”  

Gin Stephens: Well, now, he's seen you both ways. So, that's good.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Then I left, and then I was really productive and took a lot of selfies for Instagram. So, it was like the best Friday night ever. 

Gin Stephens: Well, good. Now, I've got to go look and see how you were looking on your Instagram photos. 

Melanie Avalon: Okay. [laughs] Ah, man. I don't know. I go to great lengths when I have something I want to do, like meet a man at Whole Foods. [laughs] So, that's my story. 

Gin Stephens: Oh, I have to tell you something funny.  

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. Go.  

Gin Stephens: Here I am. Oh, no, I'm logged in as Cleanish Gin. Okay, I was apparently, I'm not following you on Instagram, but that was my other profile, the Cleanish Gin one. 

Melanie Avalon: It's my story from last night where I said Happy Friday. So, that's what I wore. 

Gin Stephens: Okay, anyway, now I'm officially following you in all the places not just the other one, because like, “Why am I not following Melanie? That's so weird. What's wrong with me?” Oh, there you are. Look at that. You look fabulous. 

Melanie Avalon: That was before going to Whole Foods.  

Gin Stephens: There you go. Looking good. Happy Friday. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: I felt like in high school. I was so nervous, and I couldn't figure out the pin, and I couldn't swipe the card. It was just--  

Gin Stephens: That's great.  

Melanie Avalon: He was probably like, “What is this girl doing?” So, good times. That's my life. Really brief announcement for listeners. Go to melanieavalon.com/serrapeptase and get on the email list, because we are signing the contract officially today probably, and starting production Monday.  

Gin Stephens: Fabulous.  

Melanie Avalon: If listeners would like my serrapeptase supplement, or more information about it, or the preorder special, it will probably never be that low of a price again. Go to that link.  

Gin Stephens: Well, I know you're excited.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm very excited.  

Gin Stephens: Well, congratulations.  

Melanie Avalon: Thank you. Was that a crazy story?  

Gin Stephens: No, not at all.  

Melanie Avalon: Okay. I don't seem like crazy? [laughs]  

Gin Stephens: No, it sounds fun.  

Melanie Avalon: Okay.  

Gin Stephens: [laughs] You want him to see another side of you. Now, he's seen it.  

Melanie Avalon: This is true. This is true. 

Gin Stephens: Next time though, when you're looking all shlumpy--  

Melanie Avalon: Talk to him?  

Gin Stephens: Talk to him. Talk to him then. Yeah, because you know-- 

Melanie Avalon: If I wear a mask--  

Gin Stephens: What do you mean?  

Melanie Avalon: Then, he can't see my face.  

Gin Stephens: Why don't you want him to see your face?  

Melanie Avalon: I don't know.  

Gin Stephens: That's the part that sounds crazy. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: Well, he's already seen my face.  

Gin Stephens: Okay, then let him see your face that's not made up.  

Melanie Avalon: Okay.  

Gin Stephens: Your bare face. I promise you. Look, when we were in college, my college roommate and I noticed something funny. When we were all dolled up and going to eat in the cafeteria, everybody's like, “Hey, how you doing?” But let's say we'd been lying out in the sun, and we looked all scruffy, and our hair was back, and we hadn't showered, we had on no makeup, I swear, more guys talk to us than then if we look fancy. I think guys really like a natural look, a lot of guys. They find that attractive. So, be confident that you look attractive in your normal face. 

Melanie Avalon: Well, actually, I think there's one picture on my Instagram where I don't have makeup, and two guys have commented that that's their favorite picture of me on Instagram. 

Gin Stephens: I'm telling you, I'm telling you. We dress up and put on all that makeup, really honestly for other women. Men like a natural look. So, no mask, you let him see your naturalness.  

Melanie Avalon: I promise.  

Gin Stephens: Do it. 

Melanie Avalon: We'll see. I'll report back.  

Gin Stephens: I never forgot that from when I was in college that she was right. My college roommate noticed that. I'm like, “You know what? You're right.” After that, I was never as worried about, "Do I have on makeup or do I not?" and, "Does my hair look good?" I don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: Baby steps. The problem is he literally might not realize I'm the same person. So, what if I'm like that and then I reference the card extravaganza, and he's like, “What is she talking about? [laughs] Who is this girl?” 

Gin Stephens: I bet he'll figure it out. I can't imagine that you would look that different. Also, if he can't figure out that's still you, then he's not very smart, and just say goodbye. [laughs] That's my advice. 

Melanie Avalon: True that. All right. Well, anything else new from you?  

Gin Stephens: No. That's all. I'm just enjoying my beach time, getting all tanned, getting some sun.  

Melanie Avalon: Vitamin D.  

Gin Stephens: Exactly. Hanging out with the lizard on my porch, all that stuff.  

Melanie Avalon: All right. Shall we jump into everything for today?  

Gin Stephens: Yes. We have some feedback from Andrea, and the subject is "Chronic inflammation getting better quickly." Andrea writes, “Dear Gin and Melanie, I wanted to write and share with you my exciting news. I've struggled with my health for the past four plus years. I got Lyme disease in 2017 that eventually led to fibromyalgia, and autoimmune inflammation, and arthritis, which put me in a vicious cycle of chronic inflammation. I've been in a tremendous amount of pain. Then in January of this year, I got COVID. My body never had a chance to recover before another issue would pop up and keep me inflamed or make me worse. I've tried every supplement to bring down the inflammation and calm my body but nothing worked. I even did hyperbaric oxygen. If I heard of something that was supposed to work for inflammation, I'd try it. I honestly had given up. I not only was in a very unhealthy state with my weight, but really with my health, and I thought I just had to live with it. 

I had always tried to do fasting, but always would fast dirty and it would never work. But with my latest issue in March that threatened to take away my vision, I decided to go cold turkey and fast clean. As an artist, the thought of losing my vision was just too much. This was the thing that finally got me to give up cream and my coffee. I had my CRP, C-reactive protein, and ESR checked in March right before I started fasting clean. Both are indicators of inflammation in the body. Both were very high. CRP was greater than 10. The scale only goes to 10. If you're over that, they don't even give you a number on the lab. My ESR was 45. Both extremely high and concerning. I'm happy to report that I just got my blood work back that I had done in July, and after only a little over four months of fast and clean on a 20:4 schedule, and one long 48-hour fast, my CRP was 4.8. Still high, but coming down quickly.” So, just for listeners, it had been over 10. The scale only goes up to 10. She was over 10. Now, it's 4.8. That is amazing. Then, she says, "My ESR was in the normal range at 14." So, it had been 45, now it's 14. That's incredible. She says, "I feel so good and have a ton of energy. I'm able to exercise and be very active. I've lost some sizes, about two, but I don't know what sort of weight loss I've had, because I really want to focus on the healing and know the weight loss will follow. 

I want to share a bit of my story now to hopefully encourage others out there who are struggling with inflammation, pain, Lyme, and autoimmune, or any type of inflammatory illness. This is the first thing that has really worked for me, and I just want to share it with everyone. Thank you and take care, Andi." Now that's huge, Melanie. The clean fast is really, it's a nonnegotiable. So, she's had that much healing once she finally began fast and clean. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's an incredible story, and I really wonder, the scale only going to 10, it could have been anything. It could have been even way higher than 10, and it I went down in four months to 4.8. That's amazing. I have not had ESR checked before. Have you?  

Gin Stephens: Not that I know of.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I know InsideTracker that we partner with, check CRP. So, did you get CRP? Have you had that done?  

Gin Stephens: I can't remember. I've done InsideTracker, but it's been a while and I haven't. I don't remember. 

Melanie Avalon: I'm always really obsessive. But checking CRP, that's just really, really wonderful. I love that story, and I love hearing it because a lot of times we hear feedback from people, amazing things like this, but it's just going from not fasting to fasting, but this was her going from dirty fasting to clean fasting and the difference there. 

Gin Stephens: Right. It's really hard for people to wrap their minds around what difference could a little cream make. Because this person says, it's okay, that person says, it's okay. So, you're like, “Well, it's got to be okay. You're clinging to it like a life raft.” [laughs] "Well, this person says it's fine." But honestly, then you let the clean fast take over, and you fast clean, and your body is not having to focus on digesting and working with even that tiny bit of cream. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. A lot of people think that it will make it harder, because whatever they're using during the fast, they think what they're having in the fast making it easier. So, they think the cream and the sweeteners are making it easier. But really on the flip side, it's much easier without it for a lot of people. 

Gin Stephens: Yep, and I hear that over and over again on Intermittent Fasting Stories. People are talking and sharing their story, and they're like, “Yeah, I didn't think that was true. I was doing it the other way, and then I went to the clean fast, and immediately it was better.” I've heard that so many times now. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. So, we are super, super happy for you, Andi. Thank you so much for writing in. That was a really beautiful, and incredible story, and inspirational. 

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody. I want to tell you about one of the sponsors for today's podcast, Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken-word entertainment all in one place. At Audible, you can find the largest selection of audiobooks ranging from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, languages, business, motivation, and more. As an Audible member, you will get one credit every month good for any title in their entire premium selection. Those titles are yours to keep forever in your Audible library. You'll also get full access to their popular plus catalogue. It's filled with thousands and thousands of audio books, original entertainment, guided fitness and meditation, sleep tracks for better rest, and podcasts, including ad-free versions of many of your favorite shows and exclusive series. All are included with your membership, so you can download and stream all you want. No credits needed to access the plus catalogue.  

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Melanie Avalon: All right, so, we have some more feedback. This comes from Diane. She says, "Just listening to your 226 podcast. You may address this later, but I am walking away for now and I don't want to forget. I wanted to offer some anecdotal info. My friend's son has Type 1 diabetes, and she said in her couple years’ experience, the CGM has a lag time, something like up to 20 minutes. I actually helped to fundraise for a specific service dog that monitors his body chemistry, and it is far more accurate in real time as to blood sugar drops even overnight. Isn't that incredible?" To clarify for listeners, Gin, this dog, it can monitor the blood sugar drops? 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, these dogs are amazing. I don't know what, they've got all these different senses you don’t have. I guess. I don't know, maybe you smell different. I've no idea what they're noticing, but yeah. 

Melanie Avalon: I've actually wondered-- this is a tangent really quick, but I've wondered if people with higher blood sugar levels are more sensitive to mosquitoes and stuff like that, because I've noticed, when I had better blood sugar level control, I was impervious to mosquitoes, and getting bit, and then when I felt I started, I don't know, having issues with that, I would get bit and everything. I'd read somebody saying that at some point it had to do with your blood sugar levels. I should go down that rabbit hole.  

Gin Stephens: That's so interesting. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. There’s so many things about us that we can't perceive. 

Melanie Avalon: Because I'm guessing-- Okay, this is going to come off as completely awful. This is not true. But when mosquitoes suck your blood, they're using the sugar, right?  

Gin Stephens: I don't know what they're getting. I don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: Okay, I actually just really quickly googled. Listeners, I have not dived in deep, but it looks like yes, mosquitoes use sugar as a fuel source, but it's probably not the determining factor into why they're attracted to certain people. 

Gin Stephens: You never know though. There might be something if a dog can notice when your blood sugar's dropping, then it certainly is feasible that mosquitoes might be attracted to--  

Melanie Avalon: To something.  

Gin Stephens: Yep. Just because we don't know doesn't mean it's not true.  

Melanie Avalon: True. Okay, the rest of her question, she says, "Anyhow, thought you would like to hear that if you were unaware," and what she's referring to is that there's a lag with the CGM. She says "Also maybe your blood sugar AM spike--" I don't know if she's referring to a listener who wrote in or just in general, but she says, "Also, maybe your blood sugar AM spike is just dawn phenomenon, and not related, but just coincidental with your black coffee." Oh, this is great, because we actually have a question about this later, I think. But yeah, what Diane is referring to, she's referring to continuous glucose monitors that Gin and I talk about a lot on this show. Basically, there are really small sensor that you can just put on to your arm, and it measures the interstitial fluid around yourself, and can give you a reading of your blood sugar levels throughout the day. Yeah, it is understood that there is a lag somewhere between 10 to 20 minutes. So, basically, when you scan your CGM, it's probably what your blood sugar was 10 to 20 minutes ago. If you have a glucometer, like a home blood sugar monitor, you can check it. That is something really good to keep in mind. 

Actually interesting, Gin, I had the call this week or this week, yeah, this week with somebody at ZOE, because well, I'm supposed to start that soon. I'm trying to get up the courage to eat the muffins. But I asked her though if it's measuring, because sometimes the CGM, we've talked about this before, sometimes they are off by 10 points or something, and I asked her if that would affect the results. I need to confirm this with Tim Spector when I interview him. But the representative that I talked to, she said their calculations is just looking at the change, not the absolute values. So, the CGM could be wrong, like it could be off, but because it's not wrong with a difference in how it changes, it shouldn't mess up the ZOE information. 

Gin Stephens: They're looking at the response, how it goes up or down after the input. Yeah, that makes sense. 

Melanie Avalon: That was really cool. If listeners would like to get their own CGM, two links I have. You can go to melanieavalon.com.levelscgm. That will let you skip their waitlist, or you can go to melanieavalon.com/nutritioncgm and the coupon code, MELANIEAVALON, will get you $40 off. Gin, have you got your level CGM, yet? 

Gin Stephens: I've got it. I'm not going to put it on until I get home from the beach. I would rather have it and use it during more of a normal period of time for me versus traveling.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that makes sense. I'm about to put another one on once I start ZOE. So, exciting.  

Gin Stephens: I also want to add, you know, Diane mentioned coincidence with black coffee. That's not a coincidence. When your blood sugar changes after black coffee, that's not a coincidence. It's because we know that black coffee can make your liver dump some glycogen. So, if you see your blood glucose go up after black coffee, that's not a surprise. Remember, it's not coming from the coffee cup. It's coming from within your own body. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, basically, people experiencing spikes in the morning, there are two factors that could be leading to that. It could be making it even more exponential because there's the dawn phenomenon like she spoke about, and then also the black coffee. The dawn phenomenon speaks to a natural inherent circadian-- I guess, it would be an infradian rhythm of cortisol. No, no, no. Ultradian, ultradian. 

Gin Stephens: I don't even know. [laughs] Those words are not words I can use in my vocabulary yet. 

Melanie Avalon: For some reason, I can't get it to stick in my head which is which, but infradian is greater than 30 days and ultradian is less than. So, ultradian. 

Gin Stephens: Circadian is day to day. So, why wouldn't that be circadian, it would, right?  

Melanie Avalon: I said that wrong. 

Gin Stephens: Okay.  

Melanie Avalon: Infradian is greater than a day, I didn't mean to say 30, a day. Circadian is a day 24 hours, ultradian is less than 24 hours.  

Gin Stephens: Wouldn't the dawn phenomenon be circadian?  

Melanie Avalon: No, because it's speaking to the fluctuations of cortisol throughout the day.  

Gin Stephens: But if they happen every morning of the dawn time, wouldn't that be once a day?  

Melanie Avalon: Right, but it's how it's changing, like cortisol changing-- 

Gin Stephens: Well.  

Melanie Avalon: Because cortisol changes throughout the day.  

Gin Stephens: But we're talking about the once-a-day dawn phenomenon. It's not called the dawn and then later on to-- [laughs] Sorry. I'm being persnickety here with my vocabulary.  

Melanie Avalon: I have to google this or think about it more.  

Gin Stephens: But because dawn only happens once a day. 

Melanie Avalon: Right. It's naming one of the peaks of cortisol that happens. Cortisol is changing throughout the day, and there's a peak point known as the dawn phenomenon. Does that make sense? 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I would just call something that happened every day around dawn circadian because it's once every 24 and the other peaks would be something else. I don't know. It doesn't really matter. It's just semantics. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, it’s a good question. Ultradian are biological circles occurring within 24 hours. So, that is something that occurs within 24 hours, and the cortisol continues to change after that. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Our bodies are constantly in flux. A lot of our levels flux throughout the day. That's good for people to keep in mind.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes. All right, shall we go on to our questions?  

Gin Stephens: Yes.  

Melanie Avalon: This question comes from Pam. The subject is, "Oh, my gosh, my instant coffee is full of sugar!!!" Pam says, “Hi, Gin. I just thought I'd share something with you that I discovered this morning. I thought my Nescafe instant coffee was just freeze-dried coffee. It says 100% coffee beans on the label, but it is far from it. There is no ingredient list on the jar. You have to google it or scan the barcode for more information. Oh, my gosh, sugar is the first ingredient. There are at least two more types of sugar, palm oil, and some other crap. I thought you'd want to share with your listeners as they too may find they have been spiking insulin all day," then she has a frowny emoji. "I've also got a story to share and it's a doozy. I've had no luck trying to reach you at gin@intarmittentfastingstories.com. Anyway, thanks for all you do,” Pamela. 

Gin Stephens: Let me speak to that last part first, Pamela. You're spelling intermittent wrong. The way that you wrote it there, you've got an A instead of an E. So, you got to spell intermittent with an E instead of the A. That's why so y'all I am available at gina@intermittentfastingstories.com. Now, I don't answer intermittent fasting questions there. So, don't send them to me. Continue to send those to questions at ifpodcast.com. Because I just don't have time unfortunately to answer all the questions, but it has to be spelled the right way. That's a mouthful. I should have just been IF stories. Gin at ifstories.com would have been easier. But no, it's Gin at intermittent with an E fasting stories dotcom. Sigh. Why did I do that? Sometimes, I even spell it wrong when I'm typing it. It's a lot too tight. Typos are difficult. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: Have you thought about buying ifstories.com 

Gin Stephens: No, it's not that big of a deal. I think we could figure it out. I get plenty of people getting to me. [laughs] Just check your spelling everybody. That's all I'm saying. Check your spelling. All right. So, yeah, that is absolutely frustrating. I know, because if it says 100% coffee beans, and then when you actually research, you find that that's not what it is. That doesn't seem like it would be illegal. But everybody, check your products. If there's no ingredients list, google and try to find one that way. 

Melanie Avalon: It is frustrating how this happens I think with a lot of products. 

Gin Stephens: Like with wine, for example. We know that they don't have ingredient list. 

Melanie Avalon: They don't even put labels on wine and--  

Gin Stephens: What's in there, we don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: Yep, and it's actually not usually just wine. That really blew my mind when I first learned that. I was like, “Oh.” Listeners, if you ever have wine, and it's particularly some cheap wine, and you notice that it really made your teeth red or purple, it's probably because it has a very common colorizer that is common in conventional wine to make it redder. You'll notice now if you go and have some cheap wine, and your teeth turn a little bit red, that's why. It's not the wine. It's not crazy.  

Gin Stephens: Years ago, over 10 years ago, well before intermittent fasting and us during this podcast, I actually made a decision that I was not going to drink red wine in public anymore because of how crazy my teeth looked. I was like, “I just don't want to look like that in front of people with those crazy red teeth.” So, I do not drink red wine in public anymore. That was what I said to myself. Come to find out when we had Todd White on this podcast, he's like, “It's not the wine, it's the color.” I'm like “What?” Anyway, I still won't drink those wines in public, but I also won't drink those wines in private. Red wine, it's either Dry Farm Wines or I'm not drinking it. 

Melanie Avalon: If listeners would like Dry Farm Wines like us, they can go to dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast and get a bottle for a penny. My order just came yesterday. I get so excited when my new order comes. Did you know, Gin, they also label the amount of sugar on the back? 

Gin Stephens: Yes, I did know that.  

Melanie Avalon: It's very cool.  

Gin Stephens: Because I look at the back. I always want to know where it's from, what country, what they have to you know, that sort of thing for everyone that they send.  

Melanie Avalon: I really liked how they label it like that.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, they didn't used to do it. Their labels have changed since they used to way, and also their wines have gotten better over time. When we first started-- when did we first start partnering with them? Was it 2017, has it been that long?  

Melanie Avalon: It was forever ago.  

Gin Stephens: t's been a long time. But when we first started, their wines were a little more obscure, and I don't want to say weirder, that sounds bad, but the quality is noticeably better now. As they've gotten bigger, the wines have gotten better. You know what I mean? Every now and then, a long time ago, when we first started the wine, I'd be like, “This one's a little weird.” 

Melanie Avalon: I'm so glad you said that. I hadn't really thought about that, but yeah, when I first started, the whites I actually always really liked, but the reds sometimes were a little watery. I didn't mind drinking them, but I wouldn't know if always there would be a wine I want to like bring to a dinner. But now, they're always amazing. 

Gin Stephens: Of course, if you find one that you don't like it, they do offer refunds if you don't like them. At any time, you can just contact them and say no, that one was a dud. They will take care of you. But for anybody who tried it a long time ago when we first started, and they're like, “Yeah, they were weird. I didn't like them,” well, really, I've noticed a difference now. Now, there's never a dud.  

Melanie Avalon: I have too.  

Gin Stephens: Try again, anybody who tried it and was like, well, there's might not be for me. Try it again. 

Melanie Avalon: If you're actually a white wine drinker, I think the white wines are just incredible. If you're like a sweet wine, they're not going to be super sweet is the thing, they're really fantastic.  

Gin Stephens: If you think you must have the sweet ones, train your palate to break away from that and it will surprise you. I used to think I liked the sweet ones way back in the day. Now, I realized I don't. 

Melanie Avalon: It's so nice because I used to shy away from white wines, because I wouldn't know if they would be too sweet. But the Dry Farm Wines ones are just, they're really nice. Then the reds are-- especially, today like you said are just I love them. Body wise, they tend to be on the lighter side for reds, but they're very complex and nuanced, and some are earthy, some are minerally, some are fruity, might I can talk wine all day.  

Gin Stephens: What When Wine, that's one-third of it right there.  

Melanie Avalon: If there's a certain type of wine you like, say, you're hearing this and you're like, “Oh, well, I really like heavy-bodied cabs," if you email them, you can request for them to make a custom box for you of whatever type you like. So, if you do want heavier reds for example, just email them and say, “Hey, can you send me a box of full-bodied reds?" and they'll customize it for you.  

Gin Stephens: Awesome. Great tip.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I gave the link right for the free bottle.  

Gin Stephens: Give it again.  

Melanie Avalon: dryfarmwhines.com/ifpodcast. 

Gin Stephens: It really is worthwhile. I just can't believe how much it is. I wish you could just go anywhere and buy any wine. [laughs] But you can't.  

Melanie Avalon: If you're my friend, you now basically get Dry Farm Wines for your birthday if you're a wine drinker. This is perfect, because the next question relates to something we just talked about. 

Gin Stephens: Absolutely. So, this is fun Bill and the subject is "Blood glucose." Bill says, “Ladies, I enjoy your podcast. I don't get the feeling a lot of men are doing IF, but might be wrong.” Bill, you are wrong. There are a lot of men doing IF or a lot of men, a lot of men. There might even be more men doing it than women. I just feel maybe more women join the groups.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's a good question. I would love to know--  

Gin Stephens: A lot of men, they just do it. They don't need a group, they just join. They just start. 

Melanie Avalon: I guess a lot of the ones that are at the gym, and you know where they're all about the macros in the diet, but in general, they don't talk about their diet as much as women do. 

Gin Stephens: Let me think about just my family and the people that are related to me, just the people who are related to me that are doing it. My brother-in-law's doing it, my brother is doing it, Chad does it, my sister-in-law does it. But notice how many of the people I just named are men. It's mostly the men in my life are all doing it. Cal used to do it. Now, he doesn't. Will does it. In my personal life, more of the men that are related to me than the women do intermittent fasting.  

Anyway, yeah, lots of men. They're just not joining groups. They just quietly do it. [laughs] All right, so, although there are plenty of men in the groups, and hello to all of you who are there. I'm glad you're there. He goes on to say, “My doctor suggested IF and it's really working. I started my wife on it, and she is also succeeding. My question relates to blood glucose. I'm 60 and not a diabetic. I'm now doing a 20:4, last meal by 6 PM. But when I wake up and test my blood, it's 102 to 107, then drops as the morning goes on as I continue my fast. What's up with that? What's raising the glucose? Is this normal? Thanks." 

Melanie Avalon: Yes, this was perfect, because we just discussed this earlier, but there are two factors that primarily lead to higher blood sugars in the morning. One is the dawn effect. The natural ultradian rhythm of cortisol. What's happening there is cortisol is prompting the liver to release its stored glucose in the form of glycogen into the bloodstream. So, you're just releasing endogenous blood sugar that you already have in you. I might have to fact check that because it might also perform gluconeogenesis. So, it might actually create blood sugar. 

Gin Stephens: Are you creating if you already have plenty in your liver, would your body wouldn't create it if you had some? 

Melanie Avalon: I actually don't know, because my weird, random obsession with gluconeogenesis. I don't know why, but I'm very much fascinated by it, and the gluconeogenesis process, from what I understand, doesn't line up necessarily black and white with the level of glucose that you have either from your food or already stored. It's thought that-- like I said, I need to research it even more, but I think overdoing gluconeogenesis when you actually don't need to be doing it is a major factor related to diabetes. I think it's possible you could be engaging in gluconeogenesis even with topped-off glycogen tanks.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I just don't know. I would think that your body wouldn't, but I don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: Like metformin and berberine, one of the proposed mechanisms of action is that it's stopping that pathway.  

Gin Stephens: Okay. It's like a healthy body wouldn't be doing that probably, right.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly.  

Gin Stephens: But that would be part of those if you were already going down that metabolic route and problems, that would make more sense. 

Melanie Avalon: I think so. And then, I was reading a study, and I'm trying to remember. I was reading a study this week actually, where this came up again, and it was-- Trying remember what I was reading about, but it was talking about the levels of gluconeogenesis while fasted versus after you eat, and how in some people it can basically be the same. That process can basically just be going on. I should probably just do a whole episode on it.  

Yeah, so point being with the natural cortisol rhythm, there's a motivation in the morning for the body to produce or release blood sugar, so that can lead to your higher levels, and then on top of that coffee can also stimulate this. So, yes, it is normal. It's good that it's going down because he says that it drops. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's true. Do you have any men or very many men in your Facebook groups?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, probably what I've noticed is there are but I feel like they don't talk as much. I should look at the stats. I'm sure there's a way. You would know this better than me, Gin, if there's a way to just look at the-- 

Gin Stephens: There absolutely is a way. That's how I know.  

Melanie Avalon: Is it a quick check?  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, it's in the admin area. I can't remember what to click on, but in the admin panel, there's some things to look at where you can click it. You can see where people are from, that was always interesting, like the countries, and the cities, and then you can see the percentage by gender. And also, they break it down by age. 

Melanie Avalon: My Facebook group IF Biohackers, well, that is not what I would have thought. So, it's 92% female, 8% male. 

Gin Stephens: That's actually larger percent male I think than some of my groups.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?  

Gin Stephens: Yes. That's actually a pretty high percentage of males. It was always over 90% of women. Again, I don't know if that's a function of just women being more likely in general to join a Facebook group or maybe just the fact that they were so women focused that the men just maybe came in and said, “Oh, wait, this is all women, and maybe not,” but we always had a strong core group of men that stayed around, and posted, and I appreciated hearing from them. I loved having the male members in the groups. I didn't want to have an all-woman group, [laughs] but it just shook out that way. It wasn't purposeful. So, thank you to all the men who were actively contributing to the group's back but before I left Facebook, because there were a lot of amazing men there that I got to know, that worked as moderators in the group and that thing. Their voices were valuable, and I consider them an important part of the community, especially those men that are confident enough to walk into a group full of 90% something women and just engage. I loved it. 

Melanie Avalon: Do you know what's interesting? My CGM Facebook group. I have another Facebook group called Lumen, Biosense & CGMs: Carbs, Fat, Ketones & Blood Sugar. It's the exact same percent. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I wonder probably a lot of the people are in both of them. It's very similar, the same people. 

Melanie Avalon: My Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare group is 99% women.  

Gin Stephens: That's not a surprise either.  

Melanie Avalon: 1% male. So, fun times.  

Gin Stephens: Although they do have amazing men's products. Beautycounter has a great men's products. 

Melanie Avalon: My dad just, because at Christmas I gave him all the things, and he just told me that he ran out and he needs more, because they were really great products. I’m like, “I got you covered.” My uncle told me the same thing. So, great, Counterman is their line. So, ladies, if you ever need presence for men in your life, that's actually a really great gift. 

Gin Stephens: It really is. Because you know men are hard to buy for, especially, the men in my life, I don't know what it is about that. But I guess they all are probably if mine are that hard to buy for, but yeah, get them the man's collection, and it's just really good stuff because they deserve clean beauty-- Well, I don't want to say beauty. They deserve clean skincare also and products.  

Melanie Avalon: Wine and skincare, and we're good for presents.  

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Due to all of its health benefits, we knew we wanted to partner with a CBD company for the podcast, but I have very stringent criteria. You guys know this. So many brands approached us, and I kept just saying no because nothing fit all of my criteria. I wanted CBD oil that was full spectrum, tested for purity, organic, made with MCT oil as the carrier and that I actually experienced benefits from. That's a pretty tall order to fill. We said no to a lot of brands and then Feals came along. It was meant to be. I personally tried it out and started seeing massive effects on my sleep and stress. Feals is so easy to take. You can just put a few drops under your tongue and you'll feel the difference within minutes. I truly do feel it within minutes. Of course, it is important to remember that CBD works differently for everybody based on your own unique cannabinoid system. So, you might need to work to find your perfect dose. Experiment over the course of a week or so, and you may find that you need more or less depending on the effects that you're looking for. 

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Melanie Avalon: All right, so, shall we go on to our next question?  

Gin Stephens: Absolutely.  

Melanie Avalon: This question comes from Theresa. The subject is "Hungry after six months on clean IF." Teresa says, “Hello, ladies. Absolutely, love your podcast. I've only just started listening. So, bingeing at the moment.” She means bingeing on the episodes. She says, “I'm only up to Episode 25. So, you may have answered this in the upcoming episodes. I've been following a fasting lifestyle on and off for almost two years. For the last six months, I've been clean fasting. My fasting windows change with variations of 17:7 to 23:1 depending on what's happening in my life, but my window is always in the evening. I generally aim for a four-hour window of 3 PM to 7 PM one meal a day. I eat good food, homemade nutrient-dense meals, and I avoid processed food for the most part. I drink wine occasionally. I don't follow any special regimen. I'm not paleo, keto, or vegetarian.  

Just recently, I found that I'm getting hungry and this is new. I've been fat adapted for a while, and enjoy the energy, and I'm usually ready to eat around 3 PM or 4 PM. I'm now hungry in the morning after my usual black tea, and I'm struggling making it through to 3 PM. I thought it may be the tea, so I switched to water with no difference. I'm still hungry around 9 AM. I'm wondering what's happening. I've recently returned to full-time work after eight months off, and I was wondering if I'm just needing more food as I'm more active now. I'm not worrying too much about weight loss although I am still bigger than I want to be, I know I'm getting smaller, so, I'm just going with the flow. I want the health benefits more than the weight loss. I will change my window this week to a 17:7 two meal a day temporarily to see if it helps. Could it be that I'm depleted in something? I'm not sure how to manage this. I want to get back to normal ASAP. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Many thanks, Theresa." 

Gin Stephens: There's so much that could be making you feel temporarily hungrier. One clue is that you just changed your routine. You're back to work after eight months off and now that seems to be coinciding with you being hungrier and you're more active now. So, that could be it. You said that you're bigger than you want to be. So, I don't really know what-- There's a big difference between like, “Oh, you'd like to lose five more pounds versus you'd like to lose 50 more pounds.” Let's say, you only want to lose 5, 10 more pounds. It's possible that your body has reached a point where it's really, really happy, and you're at a healthy, ideal weight for your body even though your mind might want to lose a little bit more. In which case, your body's naturally ramping up the hunger because it's ready to maintain instead of lose more. So, that could be it. If you still have 50 pounds to go, that wouldn't be as much something to think about.  

Really, the fact that you're just back to work and have a new routine, I think, could be a lot of it. You just have to be your own study of one and see what you can do. It also depends on the kind of hunger that you're experiencing. If you're feeling shaky, and nauseous, and like, “Oh my gosh, I have to eat,” that's different. That's physically you need to eat. But if it's just a little bit, “Oh, I’m feeling a little more hungrier,” that doesn't mean you have to eat. Just ignore it, see what happens, and 30 minutes after that first wave a hunger, do you feel better? Because that's usually what happens for me. I went for a long walk on the beach yesterday, and when I came back in, I was hungry. That was 11 in the morning or something and it wasn't time for me to eat, but I had just done a lot of activity. But I ignored it, didn't eat, then I recorded a podcast from here at the beach. Then, I got busy and did some shopping, and then it was like 5:30 and I still hadn't eaten yet. I just forgot that I'd been hungry, and I was like, “Oh, after I finish this podcast, I'm going to eat because I'm so hungry.” Then, I went and ran an errand, and then I forgot I was hungry, because I was busy. 

So, really just pay attention to the kind of hunger. Is it the shaky, nauseous, “Oh, my gosh, I have to eat” hunger that's different than, “Wow, I'm hunger than I had been being” which does pass? So, be your study of one, keep experimenting, and see what feels right to you. 

Melanie Avalon: I love everything that you said there. This might be a situation where Theresa might find some insight from wearing a CGM, because it would be interesting to see, when you're experiencing this hunger, are you getting hypoglycemic? Is your blood sugar dropping? I think one of the most fascinating things that people can experience with CGMs is realizing how their perception of hunger may or may not correlate to, ironically, low or even potentially high blood sugar levels. So, maybe getting a CGM and seeing what happens after you eat, what happens when you fast, and then with that-- I know she eats nutrient-dense foods and not a lot of processed foods, but playing around with the foods that you're eating might also help. If you've never tried keto, that works really well for some people with hunger. For some people, that gets rid their hunger. Some people, they're always hungry. So, it's just something that if you haven't tried it, that might be something really interesting to try and see if that helps with your hunger. I would not suggest trying vegetarian for hunger. 

Gin Stephens: I don't know. Now, seriously, though, there are a lot of people who feel great vegetarian. I'm one of those people. When I eat more vegetarian versus when I ate keto, the difference is striking. Just FYI.  

Melanie Avalon: Do you eat completely vegetarian for more than a few days in a row?  

Gin Stephens: Probably. I don't really think about it. Here at the beach, I'm more likely to be vegetarian a lot of the time. When I say vegetarian, I'm not vegan, obviously. I guess I had eggs. 

Melanie Avalon: Okay. Yeah.  

Gin Stephens: But I don't always have eggs. Eggs and beans, I get plenty of protein. But you can be vegetarian and still get plenty of protein just without animal meat, you know?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I definitely think you can. Maybe for Theresa, she's the type that her gut microbiome can really utilize a vegetarian diet. I feel like from a large amount of people, protein provides a lot of satiety, and not everybody has the gut setup to really thrive on vegetarian. Some people do. It just won't to be my first choice of something to try, but definitely try it. Maybe, it is the thing. [laughs] Maybe, it is the thing that would make you. So, I'm glad he said that. In any case, I would really focus on-- For hunger, I would really focus on protein. 

Gin Stephens: Well, she says, she eats homemade nutrient-dense meals. It sounds like she's getting great nutrients. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I just mean focusing on protein specifically for--  

Gin Stephens: Satiety?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. But I like what you said, Gin about when it lines up with her big change. So, I think that's probably a big factor. 

Gin Stephens: When something changes and you notice other things are different, it's usually something is causing that. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. All right, so, we have a question from Allie. The subject is "Alternate day fasting." Allie says, Hi, Gin and Melanie, I started listening to both of you after I had my first baby in 2018, and I learned about fasting. I had to stop breastfeeding sooner than I would have liked. I had my second baby in November 2020, and I'm back to fasting since I sadly," again, she had to stop breastfeeding sooner than she would have liked. "When I first started fasting a few years ago, I fasted 19 to 20 hours every day, and had amazing results, and even better, I felt amazing. In the last few weeks, I have started 36-hour fast, because I just wasn't feeling great doing 20 hours like I did before and was not getting results. The ADF has been going well so far, and I am seeing the scale move again. 

My question. I know that both of you stick to 19 to 20 hours and that is your preference. Most of the people who write in also seem to fast this long, and I've listened to podcasts where you answered questions about longer fasts. Both of you always answer that longer does not necessarily mean better. I think I am misinterpreting your answers, and I have it in my head that you don't support longer fasts. Please, please correct me if my assumption is wrong. Is there a reason for why you say longer is not better? Do you still support ADF even though it isn't either of your preference? I would love to hear. Thank you for all the work that you do. It truly keeps me inspired and going. Intermittent fasting has changed my life. Much love from Canada, Allie." 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's a great question, and let's analyze that word, ‘better.’ Longer doesn't necessarily mean better. But that doesn't mean we think it's worse. So, really unpack what I just said and think about it. Let's say someone's fasting for 20 hours consistently, and they're not getting the results, maybe longer would be a good strategy for them. We don't say that it's always necessarily better. Keep that in mind. So, if you're a listener of the Intermittent Fasting Stories Podcast, and if you're not, I would encourage you to listen, I have many stories of people who do an alternate day fasting approach and a lot of them are like, “Oh, gosh, I was scared to do it. Then, I decided to do it, and it's been amazing.” So, we hear that all the time from people who really love it. If you read Fast. Feast. Repeat, I've got a whole section in there on ADF, a whole chapter. If I did not support it, I wouldn't have put it in there if I thought it was bad. I actually do have a section in Fast. Feast. Repeat where I caution you against doing fasts 72 hours and beyond unless you're under medical supervision, and I'm very specific in Fast. Feast. Repeat that these longer fasts are not recommended for weight loss according to what I have found in the research. 

In Fast. Feast. Repeat, I wouldn't have put it, like I said, if I didn't recommend it. So, I absolutely recommend it for anyone who feels great using that approach. I like to eat every day. That's my personal preference. I know many people who feel great on an alternate daily fasting approach or even I have a section in there where I talk about what I named the hybrid approach, where instead of a strict alternate daily fasting, where it's up day-down day, up day-down day, alternating like that, or even a 5:2, instead a hybrid approach where sometimes you have a down day followed by an up day, then the next day might be 19:5, and you really just mix it up to suit you. Just because I personally feel better eating every day doesn't mean that I think that's the approach everyone should follow. Whenever I say or we say, longer doesn't necessarily mean better, that doesn't mean that it's worse either. 

Melanie Avalon: Yes. I thought that was a beautiful answer. I'll just share my thoughts on the longer fasting. Basically, for me, I think that the benefits of intermittent fasting a lifestyle for weight loss and for the health benefits. It's practiced-- There's that circadian word. I don't know if that's the right word for this. It’s practiced with a daily fast, and if it seemingly not working, I believe for most people, the sustainable answer is not to necessarily fast more, that there's much more potential that can be achieved by tweaking what you're eating, and then continuing with the same amount of fasting. The phrase more is better or more isn't better, I think it's just because we're trying to discourage this idea that if people aren't getting the results that they desire, the automatic thought is, “Oh, I just need to fast more.” That's just a slippery and misleading slope, because that's probably not the answer, and it can often backfire. So, I think that's what we're trying to discourage people from falling into.  

When it comes to longer fasts, I think they're really great. I don't think that their “purpose” is the purpose that people who find themselves in the situation turn to them for. So, like Gin said, they're not for weight loss.  

Gin Stephens: Well, the ADF is for weight loss.  

Melanie Avalon: Sorry, yeah. I'm talking about longer fasts, like multiday fasts.  

Gin Stephens: Extended, when you get out of the ADF paradigm, yeah.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. So, this is not ADF. I’m talking about extended fasting, I think they have a lot of benefits, things like complete digestion resets, or stem cell activation, or cellular cleanse, kind of things like Dr. Valter Longo talks about with his work, it's not for weight loss. That's my thoughts on the extended fasting. It's more for like healing. 

Gin Stephens: Right. Extended fasting, not for weight loss. Alternate daily fasting, great for weight loss. But you have to feel good in the pattern. How do you know it's not right for you? If you ever start feeling the urge to binge, that's a sign that what you're doing is not right for you and your body, it needs you to switch it up. 

Melanie Avalon: It's a thing for me where I probably don't recommend ADF. I could recommend it as something to try, but I can't recommend it with a passionate testimonial, because for me, it doesn't work for me. But it is something to try, and I'm not against it in any way. Gin and I both have sections on it in our books. 

Gin Stephens: I actually did it for a couple months back in 2016. Yes, in the spring of 2016, it was right after The Obesity Code came out. The reason I switched to it is because, you read The Obesity Code, and in the back, that's what he's got. It's alternate daily fasting. I'm like, “Oh, that's what he has in the back. I'm going to try that now.” [laughs] So, I did it. It's a great strategy for lowering insulin even more, because you're fasting longer, and then you have that up day that keeps your human metabolism from adapting. So, it's a great strategy if you know you're insulin resistant, and you really want to target that, or if you've been doing the daily eating window approach, and you feel like your body might have adapted. Let's say, you felt great on 23:1, and you've been doing 23:1, and it's been wonderful, and you've done it for a few months. Then all of a sudden, oop, scale is at a screeching halt, you're not losing any more weight, you may need to shake it up with there's a little bit of an alternate daily fasting approach. That doesn't mean you have to do full on every other day. You could throw in a couple of down days a week followed by a couple of up days, and that might be enough to get that metabolism going. Again, the up days are so important when you're doing that.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes. I'm really glad we got this question from Allie though, because I think it's nice to clear up our thoughts on all of this. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, because sometimes, we can say something and people interpret it. “Oh, well, you don't like ADF," but that's not it at all.” Somebody sent an email, we’re not answering it today, but just this past week, where they like said, I was hostile to keto or something-- [laughs] Did you read that one? That's so interesting that someone has listened in and come away with the idea that I'm hostile to any eating style, because I'm not. Just because an eating style doesn't work for my body, doesn't mean I don't believe it's completely right for somebody else's body. So, every time I say that keto didn't work for me, that is not me secretly telling somebody that it was not going to work for them. 

Melanie Avalon: Same with me. What I was saying earlier about vegetarian, I don't think it works for a lot of people, but if it works for you, it works for you. I think Gin and I both are just about finding what works for you, and we're not wedded to you doing any one thing. 

Gin Stephens: I think it's the difference between if people are just listening to the podcast versus if they've read my books. If you've read the books, you can say, “Oh, she does talk about ADF in there and recommend it,” or “Oh, she does say find the way that works for you, and if you're insulin resistant, you may need to lower your carbs.” So, if you just hear the title of my book, Delay, Don't Deny or hear me say keto didn't work for me, you might be really confused. [laughs] I've got a lot more behind the scenes in the books.  

Melanie Avalon: Yep. Context and nuance.  

Gin Stephens: Absolutely, yes. 

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. So, a few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode231. The show notes will have a full transcript and links to everything that we talked about. You can also get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike, and you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast, I'm @melanieavalon, and Gin is @ginstephens, and I think that is all the things. All right. Anything from you, Gin, before we go? 

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it and I'll talk to you next week.  

Melanie Avalon: I will talk to you next week. Bye.  

Gin Stephens: Bye. 

Melanie Avalon: Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week. 

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jul 25

Episode 223: Melatonin, 24HR+ Fasts Vs. OMAD, Fasting Red Flags, Intuitive Fasting, Testing Glucose, Rapid Weight Gain, Birth Control, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 223 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get 2  Grass Fed Ribeye Steaks And 2 Lobster Tails All For Free!

4:00 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

16:10 - FEALS: Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping! 

18:55 - Listener Q&A: Emma - The Longer The Better?

33:45 - Listener Q&A: Alison - How often should i change up my fasting window?

42:55 - Listener Q&A: Teresa - Testing Glucose in a long fast

Join Melanie's Facebook Group Lumen Lovers: Biohack Your Carb And Fat Burning (With Melanie Avalon) If You're Interested In The Lumen Breath Analyzer, Which Tells Your Body If You're Burning Carbs Or Fat! 

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57:10 - BIOPTIMIZERS: Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save Up 10% Off Any Order!

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 223 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast, Feast, Repeat. The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny: Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I'm about to tell you how you can get to grass-fed ribeye steaks and two wild-caught lobster tails all for free. Yes, for free. We are so honored to be sponsored by ButcherBox. They make it so, so easy to get high-quality, humanely raised meat that you can trust. They deliver 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef, free-range organic chicken, heritage-breed pork, that's really hard to find by the way, and wild-caught sustainable and responsible seafood shipped directly to your door.

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All of their beef is 100% grass fed and grass finished, that's really hard to find. They work personally with all the farmers to truly support the regenerative agriculture system. I also did an interview with Robb Wolf on my show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, all about the massive importance of supporting regenerative agriculture for the sustainability of not only ourselves but planet, this is so important to me. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. If you recently saw a documentary on Netflix called Seaspiracy, you might be a little bit nervous about eating seafood. Now, I understand why ButcherBox makes it so, so clear and important about how they work with the seafood industry. Everything is checked for transparency, for quality and for sustainable raising practices. You want their seafood. The value is incredible. The average cost is actually less than $6 per meal. And it's so easy, everything ships directly to your door.

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One more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations.

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Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 223 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am doing fabulous. How about you?

Melanie Avalon: Good. Happy Fourth of July.

Gin Stephens: Yep. Happy Fourth of July to you, although the listeners will have celebrated that way in the past. [laughs] We're recording on the Fourth of July.

Melanie Avalon: This is true. I feel like we record on a lot of holidays.

Gin Stephens: Well, we tend to record on Sunday afternoon. Holidays happen on Sunday. Yeah. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: We're always like, “It's a holiday. Do you mind?” We're like, “No.”

Gin Stephens: I don't mind. We record in the middle of the afternoon. I'm not often doing anything in the middle of the afternoon.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, so true. I have some things to share.

Gin Stephens: All right. Well, I can't wait to hear.

Melanie Avalon: First one is, I just finished reading-- his name is Dr. Jonathan Lieurance, and I heard him on Ben Greenfield. He has an entire book about melatonin, like an entire book about melatonin. Not so much-- Well, yes, it's rolling sleep, but basically, it's rolling a ton of processes in our body. But he pointed out something that had never occurred to me when it comes to eating windows in the evening or the morning. You know how we have this whole debate about is it better to eat in the morning or evening?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Did you know the pancreas has receptors for melatonin. Melatonin tends to be inversely correlated to insulin. Basically, at night, when in theory, our melatonin should be higher, our insulin is lower, which could be a reason that late night eating is less than ideal, because there's not as much insulin to deal with the glucose load, but glucose levels might stay elevated more at night, which is like-- I'd read that a lot, but I was not aware that the pancreas had melatonin receptors.

Gin Stephens: Although I will say once you're metabolically healthy, like, just, for example, from people that we've heard about who've had their insulin tested, the wide range of fasting insulin levels, for example. It's going to be so different from person to person. Maybe that's why it varies, why an evening eating one day might be more of a problem for someone who's super insulin resistant, but not as much of a problem for someone who's healthy.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I mean, I still eat really late at night, and I'm not changing that.

Gin Stephens: I can't sleep when I eat in the morning and don't eat at night. I can't wrap my head around why that would be better.

Melanie Avalon: I feel like it just goes back to, if all things are controlled, it's probably better to eat early, but it doesn't practically manifest for a lot of people.

Gin Stephens: I still don't think we can make that generalization. Just based on the way that people have tried different things and the way they feel the best. Most people have not found they felt the best with the morning eating window. Some people do, but I don't think we can make any sweeping generalizations. I almost wish we didn't even have all that research. Instead, the only thing that mattered was the study of one and how you feel.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm not trying to make an argument either way, because I think people should do what they want to do, but I was just fascinated because I was like, is it just the studies not taking into account the fact that most people who do an intermittent fasting late night eating window haven't eaten during the day, so they might be more insulin sensitive, but I never come across this third factor, which seems to be completely independent of insulin sensitivity, and that regardless of your insulin sensitivity baseline, melatonin is going to compete with insulin at night. It could be different if you had high melatonin during the day, so I just found that interesting information.

Gin Stephens: It is interesting. My only fear is that then people try to force themselves into trying to do this-- what they have now perceived as now ideal, you know what I mean? They're like, “Oh, well, this is better. So, I'm going to do it,” and then it doesn't work out. Then, they quit completely, because they're like, “I just couldn't do that.” I don't know. But don't let striving for some kind of a theoretical perfection, make you do things that don't feel the best for your body. There are a lot of people who do though. They're like, “Well, I read it, I heard that blah, blah, blah is better, so I'm trying to force myself to do it.” Then, it didn't feel natural.

Melanie Avalon: Do you think a lot of people do that? Where they try early because they think it's better and then they stop?

Gin Stephens: I think you'd be surprised at how many people do.

Melanie Avalon: They stop intermittent fasting?

Gin Stephens: Well, I think a lot of people stop when things are hard. There are people who try to do what they think is the best thing to do. Then, they're like, “Well, I can't do it. If I can't do it the right way, I'm just not going to do it.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I feel very comfortable and being open to lots of ideas. I try really hard to not be wedded to any one idea, even if it works for me. I thought about that a lot with the diet example. I think the reason it works with a diet example, like vegan versus carnivore and stuff like that, is that low carb works really well for me. I think carnivore in theory works really well for me. I so desperately want to be vegan in theory, that keeps me very open to everything. I think it's the same situation with this. Late night eating works well, for me, so well. That said, I feel like the ideal approach is not what I'm doing. So, I don't have to ever worry about confirmation bias because I literally think the other [laughs] thing might be better. I was just thinking about it. Gary Taubes was talking about in an interview with Peter Attia.

Gin Stephens: I just think we try so hard to define better, and forget that there is no universal better. We're assuming there is, I think there's not.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think there's the better for the individual. Any individual probably has something that will at that point in time work better for them.

Gin Stephens: Right. Which is why I want people to not look for theories necessarily, work on yourself as a study of one, like I was saying. Anyway, it is also very interesting theoretically to consider.

Melanie Avalon: I don't think we should be scared of the science though.

Gin Stephens: I hope I'm not sounding scared of the science. I just don't think there's science that confirms here is what is better. I haven't seen it. [laughs] I haven't seen that science yet. Anything that made me convinced that, “Oh, gosh, they're right, that is universally better.”

Melanie Avalon: Well, I haven't seen any science showing that late night eating is better, and I've seen a lot.

Gin Stephens: I've never said late night eating is better either. See, I've never defined ‘better.’ For me, actually, late night eating is not what I do. That's not better for me. I tend to be more late afternoon, early evening, because I probably am done eating before you're starting, truthfully. I'm usually done by 7:00 PM.

Melanie Avalon: Are you typically done before it gets dark?

Gin Stephens: I usually am.

Melanie Avalon: What you're doing would probably fit very well into this paradigm of melatonin and pancreas receptors.

Gin Stephens: Unless it's the winter. I will rephrase that. In the summer, I'm usually done eating before it gets dark. In the winter, I am not. I'm usually done by 7:00 or 8:00. So, you can tell by the seasons, some seasons that’s dark and some seasons it isn't.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I feel like it's light out so late.

Gin Stephens: Well, it is in the summer. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Other quick update. I'm still working on developing a serrapeptase supplement.

Gin Stephens: How's that going?

Melanie Avalon: It's going well. I'm really, really torn about the exact formulation to use, which speaks to the ongoing debate about all the serrapeptases out there currently on the market. My biggest question is, should the enteric coating be on the capsule or on the individual serrapeptase itself? These are the things.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] The debate goes on.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, listeners can stay tuned, because when I do move forward with it, I think we're probably going to do like a preorder special, where we're going to make it the lowest price it will ever be. It's just special for the preorders just for my audience. I'm really excited. I can't wait to actually move forward with all that.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Again, I will not be producing a supplement. [laughs] Even a magnesium supplement, even though I take that daily.

Melanie Avalon: Depending on how the serrapeptase does, I could eventually-- the supplements that I take personally anyways, I can make my own version of them. Like I take a vitamin D, so I could make a vitamin D.

Gin Stephens: Right. Well, that makes sense, because you'd be more certain about the origin. I get it.

Melanie Avalon: Anything else new with you?

Gin Stephens: No. I'm back home from the beach. It's very quiet in Augusta compared to being at the ocean. Two weeks by the ocean, literally by the ocean all the time, I come home and like, “Why is it so quiet?” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: It's really quiet in my apartment.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, it's quiet at my house. I like it.

Melanie Avalon: I like quiet.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Me too. Although I do love the sound of that ocean. That's a noise I can get behind.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I haven't heard that in a long time actually.

Gin Stephens: What, the sound of the ocean?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: When's the last time you went to the beach?

Melanie Avalon: Probably almost a decade.

Gin Stephens: Oh my gosh. Get to the ocean.

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Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes. All right, so we've got a question from Emma, and the subject is “The longer the better?” Without even reading it, I'm going to say the answer is no. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: There's that word ‘better’ again.

Gin Stephens: Whatever this is going to be about, there's never going to be a case where the longer is always going to be the better. Sometimes the longer is too long of anything. Here we go. She says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I started intermittent fasting three months ago and recently found out about your podcast. I really enjoy listening to it and found this as a great support resource. Thank you both so much. I am 5’6” and my starting weight was 150 pounds. I had been losing 15 pounds. I hope to lose another 10 pounds.” Let me do some math there. She started at 150, she's lost 15 pounds, so that means she's right around 135. She wants to lose another 10 putting her at 125 is her goal. Is that how you're interpreting that, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: Okay. All right. She said, “I first adopted 16:8 and then gradually went to 20:4. Finally, one meal a day eventually, because I did not feel hungry. However, two weeks ago, I started using an IF app to track my fasting time, and I became very competitive. I developed the mindset that the longer the better, and only 28-hourlong fasting can trigger autophagy, the app indicated this. Shoutout for, ‘I would like to punch that in the face.’” [laughs] I don't like apps that make it so cut and dried like that, that make people think-- that's just an example of that.

Melanie Avalon: That's not even a true statement.

Gin Stephens: No, it's not true. That makes me so frustrated that now someone's got an idea that, “Oh, I can only get this if I do that.” Now, it's messing up her happy fasting. She said, “I can fast for 48 hours, and only have a one-hour eating window. I might have started to develop--” Of course, I'm not a fan of that. I keep putting in my own words there, sorry, instead of just reading the question, let me keep going. “I might have started to develop an unhealthy relationship with IF and want to change back to one meal a day, but I am very afraid that I will gain the weight back. Scale moves like crazy with long fasting. Have you experienced or seen someone with a similar mindset? Is it a good strategy to go longer to boost more weight loss, and gradually move back to a more sustainable schedule? Thank you so much for your time.” Ooh, so many thoughts. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Actually, this reminded me of something that has happened since our last recording, Gin. I interviewed Dr. Longo. So, that ties a lot into this because I've mentioned him a lot before, Dr. Valter Longo, He's the one at USC who studies fasting a lot. He has the fasting mimicking diet, which is a five day fast that is supposed to create the effects of an extended fast, like Emma is talking about except you do eat a little bit during it. To start, so many things here. First of all, we talked about this before. Autophagy, and for listeners who are not familiar with autophagy, it is a process in our bodies where the body goes down and breaks down old protein buildups and recycles them to make things anew. And it's kind of like cleaning house. It's a really, really great cellular process, happens in the entirety of our body. And mind-blown fact, it actually is happening all the time. Yes, all the time. Well, I don't like to say absolute, but according to the science, the research that I've read, some form of autophagy is happening somewhere in your body all the time. Granted, there are things that ramp it up considerably, so that would be exercise, coffee, fasting, but it's still always happening.

Gin Stephens: Yep, and also decreased autophagy is so linked to diseases of aging. As our bodies start to slow down autophagy, the things that we do like eating all the time or overeating, that makes our bodies downregulate autophagy and leads to, like I said, increased aging. So, we want to have increased autophagy. That's the key.

Melanie Avalon: Interviewing Dr. Longo with his extended fasts, it is true one of the key benefits of extended fasting is you do really, really ramp up autophagy. Doing longer fasts, yes, you are going to really, really ramp up autophagy. That said, for longer fasts, and this is just my personal opinion, I would not go to them for weight loss. I would go to them more for, like she said, wanting autophagy, but not as like a daily thing, like I just want more autophagy, I would do it as a concentrated thing with a goal in mind. But as far as the actual weight loss, I know she's seeing a lot of results with her longer fasting, and that's probably very exciting, and it makes sense because she's asking about people who have this similar mindset. It's a dangerous slope, though, because seeing those really intense results from a longer fast on the weight loss side of things can make you perceive-- not that you're addicted, but think that that's the only way or make you crave those really quick results. It's not sustainable, which is a word that she used.

I actually personally don't think that it's the best way to go about weight loss, because the amazing thing about one meal a day or a daily intermittent fasting is that you get the weight loss benefits, but you also get daily signaling to your body with your eating window that the body is not in a state of intense fasting or famine. So, you don't get the potential downsides of the metabolism dropping or what's the word, the body compensating for the long fasts.

Gin Stephens: Like panicking.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. You're mitigating all of that. It's very sustainable and it is supporting weight loss without the potential negative effects that might come with weight loss from longer fast. I know she's worried about gaining weight by switching back, going back to a meal a day. I wouldn't be worried about that, because one meal a day as a start tends to-- well, depending on who you are, but especially if you have weight to lose, and especially depending on what you're eating, it tends to promote weight loss or weight maintenance. Weight gain is less likely, for most people, I think, compared to those two options. Two, the weight might slow down, because you've been doing really long fast, and now you're not doing really long, fast. Or, you may perceive that you're gaining weight just because of food volume, and water retention and things like that. But it's very, very sustainable, and it can still lead to weight loss. Also, don't underestimate the power of food choices. If you're making concentrated food choices that in and of themselves, macronutrient wise, are just unlikely to create weight gain. On top of that, coupled with one meal a day, you can put your body in a situation where it would be very unlikely to gain weight. Those macronutrients would be high carb, low fat or low carb, high fat, but with the low being actually low, not sort of low, so, 10%, I have more thoughts, but Gin, would you like to jump in?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I'm having a hard time figuring out where to start with my answer. First of all, Emma, I would stop using the app, because if you're starting to feel like you've got to do more and more and more, that starts to get into what to me feels like a red flag for disordered eating. For example, in Fast. Feast. Repeat., I talked about fasting red flags, where you need to start becoming concerned. One is when you start feeling, like you said, very competitive, and that you need to fast longer for whatever reason. It seemed like that you got triggered with the app, making you think that you only were successful when you reached what the app told you was successful. Again, these apps that say, “Now you have ketosis, now you have autophagy,” they're just estimate based on big, broad ideas.

The whole idea that autophagy, like Melanie already discussed this, autophagy doesn't start at a certain time. It does get upregulated over time as you're fasting, but we don't need to be at this Mach level, turbo autophagy all the time. We don't want to assume that more and more and more is going to be better, better, better. Cleaning our house, for example, we don't want to never clean our house, our house will get really messy. But you don't want to only clean your house all the time, that's what people do when they have OCD, that's not good either. There's a happy medium where you're doing the right amount of house cleaning that your house needs. The same with your body. And that's where the daily eating window approach, as Melanie already said, is so great, because we have time every day where you do one thing, the autophagy is upregulated because we're fasting. And then, we have time during the day where we're doing the opposite end of the spectrum, we're eating, we're nourishing our bodies.

Like with sleep, we have an amount of sleep that's good for us. Sleeping a lot less than that is not good. Sleeping a lot more than that is also not good. You're like, “Well, sleep is good. I'm going to sleep for 20 hours a day,” that is not good for you. So, you’ve got to find the balance of what feels right. Already, this is not feeling right to you, because you're turning it into, “Gosh, I got to meet this, what this app tells me.” I would delete that app from your phone right now. Also, I want to talk about something you said, you're fasting for 48 hours and then eating one meal, or having a one-hour eating window. Then, I guess you're getting into another fast. That to me is really worrisome, because for some reason, we know or we've gotten the idea that fasting cannot lead to lowered metabolism, and it absolutely can I talk about this in Fast. Feast. Repeat. Now, do we know the amount of fasting that will make your metabolism suffer? No, we don't have research on that. We do know from that one study I talk about all the time, where they tracked people for a 72-hour fast. We know that metabolic rate went up over time, and then it started to go back down again, so that by the time they got to hour 72, the trajectory was downward. This was with one 72-hour fast. You can't assume that fast after fast after fast, it's going to do that exact same thing.

If you did 72-hour fast, then a one-hour eating window, then another 72-hour fast, for example, you wouldn't expect it to have that same exact curve that it had in the first one. Eventually, your body is going to think, “Gosh, there's really not anything coming in, I’ve got to slow down my metabolism.” Fasting for 48 hours and having a one-hour eating window, if you keep doing that, your body is going to slow your metabolic rate, it's going to try to conserve energy because it wants to save you. It doesn't know that you're like trying to beat this app or whatever, trying to get to increased autophagy, because your app told you, that was a good thing, which is why I really don't like those apps, like I said, because they're giving people a false picture of what to even shoot for. You need to really think about nourishing your body, and that is equally as important. That's so important, putting in the right nutrients for your body.

I would also like you to really think about your weight loss goals, because at 5’6”, if you started at 150, and you've lost 15 pounds, it sounds like you're right in the middle of your healthy weight range right this minute. So, trying to lose an excessive amount of weight is not what I would recommend. I would let your body slowly and surely do some body composition. You may find you don't ever lose another pound. You might even go up five pounds, especially if you've been really over restricting with a lot of fasting, and then you're like, “Okay, I'm going to go back to one meal a day.” Also, I don't want you to define one meal a day as one hour, because it sounds almost like you might be doing that. Because you said you went from 20:4 to one meal a day. I consider 20:4 to be a great one meal a day paradigm because I don't really know anybody who's getting two full meals in a four-hour eating window. Our bodies really aren't going to let us do that without a lot of discomfort. I would think about 20:4, or even if you felt great at 16:8, try to find, maybe it's a six-hour eating window, maybe it's a five-hour eating window, maybe it varies from day to day.

Focus on instead of what the scale is doing and what your app is telling you and how fast your weight’s going down. I would focus on honesty pants, photos, your goal body because you sound, like I said, you're at a healthy weight for your body right now, and you want to get into a healthy pattern that feels good to you. I guarantee if you've been doing longer and longer fasts and fasting for 48 hours, then having a one hour eating window and then doing another one like that, you're going to see some weight regain, and your metabolism probably has little slowed. That doesn't mean you've like permanently ruined it. Long term, we can heal our metabolisms by nourishing our bodies well, and helping our bodies see that we're not in a restrictive paradigm anymore. I'm glad you reached out now, because you don't want this to go on long term. Do you have anything to add to that, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I thought that was great. I liked your analogy about the OCD cleaning. I never thought about it that way. Just a last thought, just to echo something I already said, which is I think a lot of people just look at the fasting as the avenue to weight loss. When you're just looking at the fasting, the only option that you might perceive for increased weight loss would be more fasting, but the food portion of it is so, so huge. So, so huge, and you can make huge gains, if you look at the fasting and the food, and that doesn't require any more fasting than you're already doing if you're doing a one meal a day. I would look more at that than fasting and fasting and fasting.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. There's going to be a point where you've fasted so much that your body is going to rebel. Some people don't acknowledge that, but I think it's true. Our bodies want us to stay alive.

Melanie Avalon: Yep. All right. Shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: This question is from Allison. The subject is, “How often should I change up my eating window?” Allison says, “Hi, wonderful humans. I'm Allison and I'm a month into my IF lifestyle, and I'm hooked. I started at 177 pounds at 5’4”. I'm two years postpartum with a goal of 135. I'm already down to 163 and feeling great. I've been playing with my windows, and this week, I'm trying a different window each day. 16:8, 19:5, 20:4, 21:3, 22:2, 23:1, and then back to 16:8. Am I changing things up too much? Should I be doing this differently? Thanks so much, Allie.” I don't think we've ever received this question before.

Gin Stephens: Not one exactly like this, no. It sounds to me, Allie, your eating window is going 8, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and then it sounds like you'll be going 8, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I didn't pick up on that. You're right.

Gin Stephens: I would absolutely not do it that way [laughs] because it's too regimented. My big push, my goal is to communicate with everyone that you can learn to listen to your body. What if the day that you have 23:1 on the books, you're hungrier because you just had a two-hour window the day before, and a three-hour window the day before, and a four-hour window the day before, and now you're really hungry, and you're going to try to force yourself to do 23:1, when really, you need a seven-hour eating window, because you've restricted for the past three days? I would be more a fan if you want to switch things up. 16:8 one day, 23:1 the next, 16:8 the next day, because that's a mild up down day kind of approach. To me, every day getting more restrictive, I would feel miserable about that 23:1 day and be tempted to binge because my body would be fighting back.

I would not try to artificially construct your eating window like that. Instead, what feels good? Are you full after three hours? Stop. Maybe tomorrow, four hours has gone by and you're still hungry, eat a little bit more, respond to how your body feels. Can you change things up too much? Only if your windows get way too long over time, that slippery slope of window creep, that could happen. Or, if you get too restrictive, that would not be good. As far as changing things up from day to day, as long as you're within the period of time where you're getting enough fasting, not too much fasting, enough of an eating window, not too much of an eating window, then I don't think it's possible to change things up too much within that paradigm. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon: I really like what you said. I can think of two situations where this might work. One would be if it just so happens that Allie tries this for a week and really likes it, then keep doing it. But if you experience any of the things that Gin was mentioning about feeling restricted by it, or it doesn't feel intuitive, or it's not creating the results and the ease that you want, then I would not do it. But I don't see anything wrong with trial running it out of curiosity and seeing how it does. I feel like for a lot of people, it probably would feel too restrictive. For some people, there might be the odd soul that it works really well. They like this pattern that they came up with.

Gin Stephens: I would like switch it around more, maybe if you want to have those exact numbers, but sprinkle them.16:8 followed by 23:1, followed by 20:4. Instead of having them sequential like that, where you're eating windows shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink shrinks.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, well, that's actually the second thing I was thinking of that, this could also be a scenario where somebody is trying to get to a smaller eating window, and they just slowly are shortening it every single day, but then they wouldn't be starting all over again. If the end goal was to get to a smaller eating window, it might manifest as something like this, but I don't think it would be repetitive or cyclical. You probably stay at the shorter eating window.

Gin Stephens: Again, I've said it before, I'm not a fan of too short of an eating window over time, over and over again, because then your body will adapt. If you do 23:1 every single day, it's more likely that your body's going to adapt to what you're doing than if you do switch it up from time to time. Again, just as we said with the previous question from Emma, longer is not always better. I do think changing things up and switching things around is good. But what makes me chuckle a little bit, Melanie, is that this sounds like something I would have done a plan, I would have made years ago when I was still very much in that that regimented mentality of, like, “I need a plan and I'm going to follow it.” I would try to make a plan-- I can remember one year sitting, it was like, “Okay, let me figure out what my maintenance plan is going to be. I'm going to do this many hours on Monday and Tuesday.” I was writing it all down. It's so much more peaceful when you really get to the point where you are listening to your body, and you're able to be in tune with it. Was I in tune with my body from day one? No. I know it might sound foreign to even imagine that one day, you're not going to need to really think about it that much. But you really won't. Do you know exactly how long your eating window was yesterday, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: Me neither. Or the day before?

Melanie Avalon: Um-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Me neither.

Melanie Avalon: I just don't want to give the impression that that means that you should jump straight into “intuitive fasting.”

Gin Stephens: No, and I even talked about that in Fast. Feast. Repeat., the whole 28-day FAST Start, it's more regimented and it's to train your body to become fat adapted. You're not going to be ready on day one. But the goal is to become intuitive with it. Again, this sounds like something I would have been like all over at the beginning. Even the first couple years, I wasn't comfortable with the idea that I could trust my body.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I think especially in the beginning when you're not fat adapted and everything, and we just talked about this but just to make it even more clear, having a plan is a really great thing. It can be a really great thing, because you're probably not going to be intuitive at the beginning.

Gin Stephens: Yep. I would be cautious with an overly restrictive plan. If you say my plan is, I'm going to do 23:1 every single day for a month, I would be cautious about that. Give yourself a plan within something like a 19:5 or a 20:4 kind of thing and be flexible within either side of that, perhaps. Just my two cents.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Thinking back to when I first started, I was rigid on one side and flexible on the other, and we've talked about this a lot before, but basically my rigidity, my plan was fasting a minimum amount of hours, but then I was flexible on the eating window. So, I didn't put an end cap to the eating.

Gin Stephens: See, I was the opposite. I didn't count my fast at all. My goal was to keep my eating window at five hours or less. It's all about what feels right to you. I've just heard people will be like, “Wow, I never thought of doing it that way.” Whatever the other way is. Whatever you're doing now, think about doing it the other way and see if you like that better. There are people who like both ways, and there is no better way. It's whatever feels good, and it might change for you from time to time.

Melanie Avalon: Super curious now, I think after we finished recording, I'm going to post a poll on my Facebook group and ask do people count the fasting hours or the eating hours? I'm really curious what the breakdown is. If it's like half and half or--

Gin Stephens: Yeah. What's interesting, if we go back in time, early days of intermittent fasting, really people, other than Brad Pilon, who had the Eat Stop Eat where he would go 24 hours, his goal was to go to 24 hours, a couple days a week. Other than that, everything was talked about with eating windows. We had Fast Five, which is where the five-hour window came from, or 16:8, where people were focused on that eight-hour eating window. It seems like the fasting apps that had the milestones in them really got people to focus on the fast.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's just what I always naturally gravitated towards.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's interesting.

Melanie Avalon: I feel claustrophobic in an eating window, in a restricted eating window.

Gin Stephens: It was what I needed, though. I needed that, “Now, your window is closed.”

Melanie Avalon: I guess also, when you're having a later eating window like I do, it naturally closes itself because of sleep. When you're eating up until bedtime, you can only eat so long.

Gin Stephens: That's true, because then you go to bed.

Melanie Avalon: If I had to do, for whatever reason, earlier eating window, I would probably count that eating hours.

Gin Stephens: And you would need to close it at a certain time.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. That'd be upsetting.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] The good news is you don't have to.

Melanie Avalon: I know. Thank goodness.

Gin Stephens: Yay. All right. So, we have another question, and this is from Theresa, and the subject is “Testing glucose and a long fast.” Theresa says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I love your show. I'm a member of your Facebook groups, have read your books, and started IF in September of 2020 after finding your podcast. I've been clean fasting since then, eight months. Mostly 16:8, but some 20:4, 22:2 etc. I've played around with my window, and I've also bought a lot of the biohacking gadgets, participated in the Zoe study, trying to figure out why I can't lose weight. I'm 39 work a desk job and not very active. I eat clean, mostly paleo/whole30 style. I don't drink much, occasionally a seltzer or a glass of wine, but not even once a week. I've put on about 25 pounds in the last year, putting me 50 pounds overweight and have struggled with energy. I am completely exhausted by 4:00 to 5:00 PM each day, which is why I'm not exercising. I have kids and it's all I can muster to get dinner going and help them with the bath, bedtime, and then I feel like I literally can't move anymore.

I was convinced it was my thyroid. I checked the box for every Hashimoto symptom, but I had a full panel and my numbers are okay. From listening to you, I knew to ask for TSH, reverse T3, T4, antibodies, etc., and they are all “in the normal range.” I realized they might not be optimal levels, but it wasn't the smoking gun I was expecting. I take serrapeptase in the morning fasted. I also take Selenium and I do think that it has helped with my energy level. I take Magnesium Breakthrough and Magnesium Calm at bedtime. I signed up for InsideTracker and my inner age is 45. They recommended I add AHA supplement, So I take the one from Thorne.

After hearing Melanie and Marty talk recently, I looked into data-driven fasting and did a test. I stopped eating at 6:30 PM on Wednesday, and on Thursday fasted clean, just black coffee, unsweetened iced tea and some LMNT Raw and tested my blood glucose and ketones with my Keto-Mojo. At 10 AM, my blood glucose was 111 and ketones 0.2, Lumen was 1. At 3:00, my blood glucose was 80, ketones 0.4, Lumen was 2. At 6:30 PM, 24 hours into the fast, my blood glucose was 91 and ketones 0.5, forgot to use the Lumen. This morning I checked at 8:30 AM, and my Lumen said 2, my blood glucose was 105, and my ketones were 0.4. Shouldn’t I have higher ketones and lower blood glucose at 38 hours of clean fasting? I'm perplexed.”

Melanie Avalon: Can I interject really quickly?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: I probably should have said this before we read that part. For listeners, the Lumen is a device that measures if you're burning carbs or fat, primarily. When she's registering a 1 or 2, that is a fat burning mode. As you go up, 3 is carbs and fat, and 4 and 5 are carbs. It's not measuring ketones, or blood sugar, it's actually measuring levels of carbon dioxide in your breath, which they can show the source substrate of what you're burning. If you want to learn more about it, I actually have a Facebook group, I'll put a link in the show notes to it. Then you can also get a discount for Lumen if you like at melanieavalon.com/lumen. The code changes around, but I think right now it's MELANIEAVALON30 for $30 off, but we'll put a link in the show notes. Just to clarify for listeners, what's going on there.

Gin Stephens: All right. She goes on to say, “I'm perplexed. I feel like I'm doing all the things, but the weight won't budge. I've actually gained 5 to 10 pounds since starting IF. I have berberine on the way after listening to Melanie's most recent podcast with Shawn Wells. I'm a little hesitant to try longer fasting, but that really is what I haven't tried yet. This is my longest fast, but I'm apprehensive after hearing from Dave Asprey and others that women with hormonal issues shouldn't do extended fasts. I think my sleep is okay for the most part, but I have an Oura ring being delivered today. Blackout curtains changed my life. My stress level isn't anything crazy. I do wear my Apollo Neuro, I'm serious, I bought all the things and do breathing exercises. Before COVID, I was a yoga guide twice a week, so I'm sure my stress is higher than it was a year ago, but I'm pretty level most of the time. Should I try alternate day fasting? Do you think the longer fasts are what I need to start seeing weight loss? I don't usually struggle with hunger until about 20 hours into a fast but now that I'm at 38 hours and not hungry, if it's a mind game, I'm for it. Are there any other labs I should ask for?

I know something hormonal is off. I started taking birth control pills, low hormone, to help with period related migraines. I get two-to-three-day migraines right before my period and they are unbearable. I was also having terrible cystic acne despite a very clean skincare and makeup routine. I've been on clean beauty since 2014. The birth control pills immediately cleared up my skin and my migraines are still coming, but seem to last a day instead of two to three. Sorry to write you a book, but I don't want to be the listener that you can't help because I didn't give you enough info. What would you do if you were me? Thank you for all you do.”

Melanie Avalon: All right. Thank you, Theresa, for your question. I know this was a very long question and very specific to Theresa, but I think she touched on so many things that can probably help so many people, so I would love to address it. For starters, the fatigue. Fatigue often indicates that your cells are not receiving the energy that they need. It could be that you during the fast are not tapping into a fat-adapted state or a ketogenic state and that your cells are literally struggling to get the energy that they need. I know you checked your thyroid and you checked for all the things. I would do a full iron panel. When I say full, we want to make sure it has hemoglobin, iron, iron binding capacity, iron saturation, and ferritin, which a lot of the panels don't include ferritin. So, you have to ask for it specifically. Fun fact, even if you get the iron panel on the conventional list, I think with like LabCorp or something, it doesn't even include ferritin, like you have to add it on which is just shocking to me. A lot of women struggle with iron issues, and personally having had iron issues, the fatigue, you can get from it-- I'm not saying this is what you have, but it might be and for any other women or men listening, it could also be a thing. The fatigue from it is very intense. So, I would check that out.

As far as the weight loss and all of the things, I get a sense that for the weight loss, you're searching for a solution, a supplement or a lifestyle practice, like I get the sense that you're searching for the answer, and one thing outside of yourself. When I would step back-- this is for the weight loss, and I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I would look, first and foremost at the food choices. I know you said that you are doing a paleo/whole30 approach, but what are you eating in that paleo Whole30 approach. Out of all that we don't actually even know the macros that you're doing. So, are you doing low carb? Or, are you doing higher carb approach? Again, I don't know the answer, so I can't give an answer. But all of these situations may or may not be working. You could be doing low carb, and it could be that your body actually doesn't do well with low carb. Actually, you need more carbs. So, you might benefit from a fatigue level and an energy level, and even a weight loss level with more carbs, less fat, and just continuing the fasting, or might be the reverse. Maybe you have carbs, and you actually-- your body would do well with lower carbs, so you might want to try a lower carb approach.

I think people think that if they're doing fasting and Whole30 or paleo that checks all the boxes, and so that the automatically lose weight, especially if you're eating things like nuts, for example, there are a lot of foods that you can eat that actually are going to be weight promoting. Fasting is not an automatic, instant weight loss solution. It works really well for a lot of people, but it doesn't get rid of the potential for weight gain or weight maintenance or weight stagnation from food choices. Same with the food choices. Eating a paleo diet or Whole30 diet, doesn't automatically mandate or necessitate weight loss.

Gin Stephens: What you're saying is, just to summarize it for people, you can still overeat in an eating window, even if you're eating clean, paleo, Whole30, and then you won't lose weight, you might gain weight. That was what Melanie is saying.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect, thank you.

Gin Stephens: If you're overeating for your body, you're not going to lose weight, you'll gain weight.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and I feel like a broken record, but that's why I so often suggest people trying either low carb and really low carb or low fat, and actually low fat because the tweaks you can make with the macronutrients, they set up your body, because of the nature of the macronutrients, to make it much more difficult to gain weight and much more likely to lose weight. She's gaining weight, and I get the sense that she's attributing the weight gain to the fasting, but she also mentioned a lot of other factors that happen sort of recently, they didn't all have specific dates, so it's hard to know how things lined up. How long has she been fasting? Eight months. One of them was, she went from doing teaching yoga to not, and she says she’s sedentary and doing a desktop.

Gin Stephens: There's something else out there, that's a huge red flag. She gained 25 pounds in a year. That's an indication that something's going on. She's only been doing intermittent fasting for eight months, but before starting intermittent fasting, she was gaining weight rapidly. There's some underlying something. I don't know what that is. We can't know, but something caused that to start happening in her body. I wonder if she's going through menopause.

Melanie Avalon: She's 39.

Gin Stephens: Oh, she did say 39?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I doubt that's perimenopause.

Melanie Avalon: Another huge change is the birth control. That could have a major effect. The power of hormones is just so huge, and birth control is messing with the hormones. I even look back in high school for the same-- She's going on it for the migraines, and then she said it cleared up her skin. I shudder her so much about this. I went on birth control when I was 16 for acne. Just looking back, so I was never crazy overweight, but I gained a significant amount of weight really fast. I'm assuming it was most likely from the birth control.

Gin Stephens: I had that happen. I got an IUD that had hormones that it released. This is after I had both of my kids and I didn't want to have more kids. It was a hormonal IUD. I started gaining weight rapidly when I had been pretty weight stable. So, that was interesting. The InsiderTracker part is interesting because her inner age is six years older than her real age. How do they base that, is it like based on inflammation, just a wide variety? There's something up in her body.

Melanie Avalon: What they look at to determine your “inner age,” they test a lot, but the actual inner age thing looks at LDL, glucose, GGT. GGT, this is fascinating. People usually just test AST or ALT liver enzymes, but GGT is another liver enzyme, and it's actually specific to the liver. AST and ALT can be increased from exercise, but GGT is really just the liver, so it can indicate if you have elevated liver enzymes if it's the liver, or if it might be something else, like actually fasting or exercise. Sorry, so they also test DHEA, lymphocytes, triglycerides. How do you say the word? I've never said it out loud. Eosinophils?

Gin Stephens: Oh, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: I've never said that out loud. I see it all the time on blood tests.

Gin Stephens: I do not see that all the time. Isn’t that funny?

Melanie Avalon: RDW, monocytes, basophils, total iron binding capacity, albumin, HbA1c, and BMI. That's what they test. I would be curious from her InsideTracker specifically, what were the ones that were raising her inner age. That would actually paint a better picture as well of what might be going on.

Gin Stephens: There's something going on in her body that started when she was rapidly gaining weight before she started intermittent fasting. It sounds like maybe the intermittent fasting has slowed the rapid weight gain, but it hasn't mitigated it. Now, she's slowly gaining weight instead of rapidly gaining weight. It's still you’ve got to figure out the cause, and that's so much easier said than done. I love what Dr. Jason Fung said, that always comes back to me. Obesity is a multifactorial problem, and you’ve got to find the root cause for you and address that. If it's not something fasting-- fasting might be one piece of your puzzle, but it may not be the only piece of your puzzle. Does that mean fasting doesn't work? No. But it may not be addressing the thing that is-- if your problem with energy is iron levels, fasting isn't going to fix that.

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Gin Stephens: Her main question was testing glucose in a long fast. What would you say to that part, Melanie? We haven't talked about that at all.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I was just going to say we haven't answered that yet. I think people get really confused by this. Basically, if the body is not relying solely for whatever reason on fatty acids, the body can increase blood glucose, if it thinks it needs more sugar. Even if you are fasted a long time, even if your glycogen is depleted, well, if the glycogen is not depleted, it can pull blood sugar from your glycogen in a fasted state. If it is depleted, it can make blood sugar. The liver can make blood sugar through a process called gluconeogenesis. In the Lumen group that I mentioned earlier, my Facebook group, we have how many members? Maybe close to 5000 members, and people share their experience with Lumen a lot. A lot of people see this. They'll be in a fat burning mode, like 1 or 2 and then they fast longer, and it goes up, to 3.

Gin Stephens: Your body has introduced some blood glucose from somewhere or some glucose.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. So, so many people experience this. I think what's going on is that the longer into the fast, instead of the body being like, “Yeah, we're fasting, we're burning fats,” it actually is sensing it as a stress. So, it's upregulating blood sugar. I wouldn't be surprised that's happening. That said, she still stayed in a fat burning mode. She was asking, shouldn't I have higher ketones and lower blood sugar, I would not be surprised. For her at this point in time, a longer fast, her body is not responding with more ketones, it's responding with more blood sugar. It has that choice. We have very little consciously, very little control over this. Some people are going longer into the fast and for all of the reasons, their body is like, “Yay, we're going to rely on ketones more,” so it makes more ketones and blood sugar lowers. Some people's bodies say, “No, we're not going to rely on ketones more,” and it makes more blood sugar, and then the ketones don't go up.

Peter Attia has talked about when he went on a keto diet for a really long time and he's a doctor and testing all the things, he was saying it was shocking how long it took his body to fully keto adapt, like really, really long time. And that's with doing like a really, really stringent ketogenic diet and fasting. I think a lot of people experience this, because I think some people just never quite-- their body never quite gets to that point where they could do a 38-hour fast and not have this response. I always wonder if, like, everybody, if they just did it long enough, and by long enough, I don't mean fasting longer. I mean staying on a ketogenic diet, staying on the fasting long enough, would everybody's body eventually adapt to where they could go 38 hours and not have this response, or some people will this always be the case? I don't know the answer to that.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. We're all different when it comes to what our bodies do. I think of that normal distribution, the normal curve of everything from cat tail length to the height of a pine tree, they follow that normal distribution. There are people on either extreme of every factor, and that's going to be even how quickly your blood glucose goes down, or how well your body gets into ketosis. You might be an outlier on one end or the other. We're all just so different. Back to what I said about those apps before that treat us like we're all just carbon copies, and everybody's going to be doing bam, the same thing at the same time, that's why that make me so mad.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Also, to answer her question, she's doing a 38-hour fast and she said that this is the longest one she's done, and she wants to know, should she do longer? Should she try alternate day fasting? I didn't plan this, but this was perfect. She asked the same question. Do you think the longer fasts are what I need to start seeing weight loss? Honestly, it goes back to the same answer I gave with Emma's question, which I would not necessarily turn to the longer fasting as the first thing to lose more weight or at all. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: I will say that an alternate day fasting approach or a hybrid approach, if you feel good doing it, that could be a great strategy. Maybe two down days a week, follow by up days, and then the other days having an eating window, that might be a sweet spot for your body. So, you can certainly experiment with that. Go back to Fast. Feast. Repeat. and look at the Intermittent Fasting Toolbox chapter and think about how you can try to experiment. But the thing that worries me, going back to the very, very beginning of Theresa's question, is that she doesn't have good energy even now eight months in. I just keep honing in on that as something's up. Even with the longer fast, I wonder did her energy-- at 38 hours, did she feel more energy? That would be interesting. If the answer is yes, when you’ve got to 38 hours, you did have more energy, then I would say maybe you do need to throw in a couple of down days a week. But if you still never got there even with 38 hours, made me think, no, that would not be the answer.

Melanie Avalon: I didn't pick up on this earlier.

Gin Stephens: There's a lot here. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I know. That she's 50 pounds overweight, I'm assuming that's by the conventional BMI standards, I would really look at what you're actually eating. And not physical activity to lose weight, but just because there's a lot to moving around compared to a desk job, sedentary, especially if she was doing like yoga before, so that's a big change. There's so much, the hormones, the exercise, the food, definitely check the iron panel. And I'm really, really curious if you check the iron panel, if you find something, let us know. I'd be really, really curious about that.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, me too.

Melanie Avalon: I would just say that being anemic can feel like death. It can just feel like fatigue, and you just can't move, that's what she said.

Gin Stephens: That is what it sounds like to me. I was going to say iron too, but you said it first.

Melanie Avalon: She says I feel like I literally can't move anymore, I would really check the iron. Having been there, that is exactly what it feels like. All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you'd like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode223. The show notes will have a full transcript and they'll have links to everything that we talked about. I’ll also put links to all the stuff that Theresa talked about lumen, the Oura, the Apollo Neuro, all of the things. Magnesium Breakthrough, she really did touch on a lot of things. And yes, you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast, I'm @melanieavalon, Gin is @ginstephens. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

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Jul 18

Episode 222: Fasted Marathons, Quitting Smoking, Double Standards, Restrictive Diets, Disordered Eating, Night Shifts, Dizziness, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 222 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To Butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get 2 Grass Fed Ribeye Steaks And 2 Lobster Tails All For Free!
The Science, Nutrition, And Health Implications Of Conventional Vs. Sustainable, Grass-fed, Pastured, And Wild Meat And Seafood, Featuring My Honest Butcher Box Review!
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #57 - Robb Wolf

3:55 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! 
Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's QuizMelanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

To Join The Supplement Study Email Dr. Lustig at: Rlustigmd@gmail.com
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #99 - Dr. Robert Lustig

17:00 - Listener Feedback: Madeleine - Fasting During Triathlons

Episode 218 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast

20:35 - Listener Q&A: Marcela - I have run marathons fasted

Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking

#161 – AMA #23: All Things Nicotine: deep dive into its cognitive and physical benefits, risks, and mechanisms of action

Get $50 Off X3 Resistance Bands And Grow Muscle 3x Faster Than With Weights! Go To melanieavalon.com/x3 And Use The Coupon Code SAVE50

26:50 - MOLEKULE: Go To Molekule.com And Use The Code ifpodcast120 At Checkout For $120 Off Your Order!

29:20 - Listener Q&A: Jenny - Interesting article

The damaging double standard behind intermittent fasting

47:30 - FEALS: Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

50:20 - Listener Q&A: Heather - Night Shift Nurse

56:05 - Listener Q&A: Eric - first week of IF

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 222 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast, Feast, Repeat. The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny: Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

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One more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations.

Did you know that conventional lipstick for example often test high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter, and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter.

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my Clean Beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is episode number 222 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi everybody.

Melanie Avalon: Gin, you know what 222 is?

Gin Stephens: The number after 221?

Melanie Avalon: It's a palindrome.

Gin Stephens: Oh, well, it is. Yeah, it is. It's also a nice number. I like repeating numbers.

Melanie Avalon: Me too. Well, how are things with you?

Gin Stephens: They are great. I'm still at the beach. We had a whole week with my whole family here--Well, Chad didn't come. He doesn’t like to come to the beach, apparently, [laughs] and neither of my children were here. All the 20 something kids were off living their lives. It was just the younger kids and the adults except for Chad. We're all here, and we were here for a week, and it was great.

Melanie Avalon: Well, that's exciting.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, we had really good family time. We hadn't taken a family beach trip, my brother, Zach, figured out, for 22 years.

Melanie Avalon: Wow. That's a long time.

Gin Stephens: Yep.

Melanie Avalon: You put a picture on Instagram, was that your brother or--?

Gin Stephens: Those are two of my brothers and my sister. There are four of us.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, okay, because I was like, “That's not Chad, who is that?” I’m so confused. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: The one closest to me was my brother, Zach, and my sister, Alison, and then my other brother, Ben. We're all in that photo. It was so much fun. We had a surprise engagement for one of my nieces. At one time, I didn’t really how many people there were on the beach, there were 27 people on the beach for that surprise engagement. Her boyfriend, and his family, and their best friends all surprised her right in front of our beach house. We said we were going to do family photos, and so we all were there, and then, surprise, there's her boyfriend with an engagement ring and all of their family and friends plus us. So, there were a total of 27 of us on the beach and she had no idea.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness, that's so fun. I love that.

Gin Stephens: That was right when we took that picture. It was so much fun. Yeah, it was so much fun. Anyway, this might be the last trip we all take as a family. So, even though Chad wasn't there, and my kids weren't there, and one of my nieces, one of my nephews, because they're old-- not old enough to have time off work [laughs] but too old to be a kid. It's that in between age.

Melanie Avalon: I guess, they'll grow into the time when they can come.

Gin Stephens: Exactly. But it was such a fun trip. Now, I'm here by myself. I'm staying till Thursday. Right before we recorded, I went for a swim in the ocean. I would say all by myself, except the ocean is packed full of people. So, I had to keep making sure I didn't run into people in the ocean. Back at the condo for this this week, our house is rented, and it was so sad to pack up from the house and come to the condo.

Melanie Avalon: I bet.

Gin Stephens: I love the condo, but I love the house. It's so much more isolated, even though, it's not isolated at all, the condo’s like wall to wall.

Melanie Avalon: Well, we can be grateful things opening up this summer.

Gin Stephens: It is. I'm so grateful. Exactly, and that everybody's here having such a good time. Yes, all those things. But I'm tired of eating out, can I just tell you. So now, I'm just eating at the condo, meeting things like avocados, and tomatoes, and raisin toasts, and it's so nice to just be eating plain [laughs] simple foods. I'm going to have a big spinach salad to open my window today.

Melanie Avalon: Very nice.

Gin Stephens: So, what's up with you?

Melanie Avalon: Actually, a few really important things or exciting things. I've been telling you this, but I'm really making forward progress. I think I'm going to produce a serrapeptase supplement.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's really fun.

Melanie Avalon: I'm learning so much about making a supplement., like how the process works and everything. So, I'm really excited. Listeners, stay tuned, because you know, there's so many serrapeptase-- for listeners, who are not familiar, Serrapeptase is a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. When you take it in the fasted state, which is obviously easy for many of our listeners, it goes into the bloodstream and breaks down residual proteins in your body. So, those are things that can contribute to inflammation or allergies, or-- Gin, you took it originally for fibroids, right?

Gin Stephens: I did.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Brain fog is another thing. A lot of people just really find it to be a game changer. I've taken it pretty much every day for years, and there's all this debate out there about which brand to use, and potency, and strength, and should you get enteric-coated serrapeptase, or should you get enteric-coated capsules. So, I've been doing all of the research, and I'm working with a preexisting company that I really like. I'm probably going to produce it with them. So, stay tuned.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's really fun.

Melanie Avalon: I know. [giggles]

Gin Stephens: I am never going to make a supplement. Can I just say that?

Melanie Avalon: I know, I know.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] If I ever do, that's a sign that I've been kidnapped. Come and look for me.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's so funny. I didn’t think I ever would I think something like this would be appropriate, I realized maybe it would be appropriate to make the supplements that I personally take every day, I might as well make my own version?

Gin Stephens: With this one, not only do you take it every day, but you haven't found a company that you really, really trust with it.

Melanie Avalon: Right, exactly.

Gin Stephens: That's the difference.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Then, listeners just ask all the time. People ask my Facebook group like, “Which brand?” I was like, “I just need to have my own.” That's one exciting thing. We're still figuring out all the details but what we're probably going to do, just to tease it now, is have the launch date, but we'll probably, do a special preorder setup where you'll get it at a really discounted price. So, stay tuned. I will have more details about that.

Gin Stephens: Very cool. What else? You said there are lots of things, is it just two?

Melanie Avalon: The second thing is, I released this week on Friday, last Friday, this past Friday, and the episode with Dr. Robert Lustig for that Metabolical book. Oh, my goodness. Gin, have you read it yet?

Gin Stephens: I haven’t. I'm reading some fiction right now. I'm reading this trilogy of fiction that's really long by Ken Follett. If there are any Ken Follett readers out there, they know what I'm talking about.

Melanie Avalon: What genre, fiction? What, like fantasy?

Gin Stephens: Historical fiction. The trilogy I'm reading now is World War I. And now, I'm in World War II. Then, I haven't read the third one, is, I guess, Post World War II.

Melanie Avalon: Nice. [laughs] I've not read any of that stuff.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I don't read fantasy.

Melanie Avalon: I know I said that, and I was like, “Wait, she's not reading fantasy.”

Gin Stephens: No. I don't like fantasy.

Melanie Avalon: I was like, “This is Gin.” I don't even know what books you like, but I know you're probably not reading fantasy.

Gin Stephens: No, I like realistic fiction a lot. But it's been so long since I read, I'm almost embarrassed to-- It's been a long, long time since I read fiction.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, me too.

Gin Stephens: But I'm really enjoying it.

Melanie Avalon: Me too. Well, when you come back to the nonfiction world, I still think you would love Metabolical. Especially, it just really lines up with your new book so much, but I have an update about it. So, the episode has been so, so popular. I've been sort of blown away, which I anticipated that. I was supposed to release this episode way later like in the fall, but I was so excited about it that I bumped it up to now. But Dr. Lustig in the episode talks about-- I don't know if he owns the company-- Okay, so it's called Biolumen, and he's basically making a supplement, but it's all food compounds. It's technically considered food. The way it works is, in their early studies, they've shown that it inhibits 35% of sugar load-- well, I guess any sugar. The ingredients in it, sequester sugars and starches in the gut, and it makes them so that they're not immediately absorbed higher up and instead released further down in the intestine. It goes with his whole thing of “protecting” the liver and feeding the gut. They're still doing trials on it and studies. They're looking for listeners who use a CGM, who would like to be involved in his studies and his trial, and he mentioned it in the episode, but I didn't have the information then. So, now, I have the information.

If anybody wants to do, this to qualify, you have to routinely use Abbott FreeStyle Libre CGM. If you use a Dexcom, you can also participate, but you'd have to be able to send screenshots of your data. Or, for our listeners who are doing NutriSense and Levels, he didn't talk about this and the information that he gave me, but that-- What do those use? I think those use the FreeStyle. Those would work because you can send screenshots with the data. You also can't have diabetes, but it's okay if you have prediabetes. You can't be taking glucose-lowering medications, including insulin, and you obviously have to be willing to share your CGM. But if you'd like to participate, and if you participate, they'll send you these capsules, I have all the instructions, but basically, you'll be taking them in conjunction with your food, you'll have your readings, and also, you will be compensated a little bit for it as well.

If you'd like to do this, just contact Dr. Lustig directly. His email is RLustigMD@gmail.com. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. This is really exciting. It says that he'll email you back or if you prefer, if you include your name and phone number, he will call you directly. So, [giggles] that's very cool. I was excited when he sent me this, because I was like, “Well, we have a big audience, and a lot of our audience is wearing CGMs.” So, if anybody's interested, this could be a fun little thing to do.

Gin Stephens: I wonder if he's going to be surprised.

Melanie Avalon: I know. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: That has definitely happened [laughs] when I've interviewed people on Intermittent Fasting Stories, and then they're like, “Oh, I wasn't expecting that.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That many people, yeah. He just sent me this email this morning, and then, I just emailed back, and I was like, “Yeah, I'll mention it on our podcast.” We shall see. That's really cool that he'll call you though. I had other things, but I can save it for next week.

Gin Stephens: Well, those are some exciting things.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Shall we get started with the feedback?

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: This is from Madeline, and the subject is, “Fasting during triathlons.” She says, “Hello, ladies. I've been listening to your podcast from the start, and truly believe this is the best healthy way of longevity. Thank you for all you do. You ladies are fun to listen to and full of great knowledge. I don't have a question, but just to share an experience I've had with IF in the course of my life. As per your request from Episode 218, a little about myself. I am a retired RN and a personal trainer from Ontario, Canada. Hello from the North. I too, like Gin, once weighed 216 pounds 25 years ago, 1996, and have kept it off.” Just a little side note for me. 210 is the highest number I saw on the scale, but it was probably 216 when I was on that cruise [laughs] because I wasn't weighing.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: She says, “I have kept it off. I basically lost it during the IF style of living. However, it wasn't recognized clearly back then. I did however do dirty fasts, i.e., my coffee. That has changed now especially as I know better, thanks to you gals, had to adjust it for menopause. After my huge weight loss, I had lots of energy that encouraged my performance as a triathlete. Over the course of 10 years, 2000 to 2010, I competed in multiple road races and triathlons placing first for my age group. During that time, I often was accused of taking some drug to give me such energy/speed to perform, LOL. It wasn't any drug, it was just IF. I was in my fasted state which I performed my best run, 5K, 24.3K bike, and 5k swim, and placed first every single time. I have a collection of medals on my wall. I don't race anymore as I train people to optimize their health to be their best. Thank you once again, all the best, Madeline.”

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Well, this was really, really amazing to hear, because I remember when we discussed this on the earlier episode that we can put a link to and again, Gin and I-- We can research the science and we can share anecdotal stories like Madeline's, but we don't have any. Well, Gin, have you ever run a marathon?

Gin Stephens: Oh, Lord no. Is that a joke? [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I did not want to presume.

Gin Stephens: That joke that, if you ever see me running, you better start running too. Have you ever seen that, because something's chasing me?

Melanie Avalon: That’s so funny.

Gin Stephens: I'm not a runner. I had so much fun playing in the ocean, today. That's what I like to do. Anything that is just fun and doesn't feel like you're exercising. I jumped up and down a million times, and the waves were knocking me over. I like to exercise like a kid playing.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, me too. Me too. It's nice to hear from people who actually have done this and it's crazy that she's a triathlete as well.

Gin Stephens: I love it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I know people love to do that kind of thing, and I admire them for loving it. I just don't.

Melanie Avalon: This is what we talked about last time, but I do want to iterate that this still likely requires a lot of training in the fasted state to do this in the fasted state. It's not something you want to just jump into willy-nilly, which actually our next question, I think, speaks to a little bit. Doesn't it?

Gin Stephens: It does.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. We’ve got another question or another feedback, and this is from Marcella. Madeline and Marcella. She says, “Hello, ladies. I just finished listening to podcast 218,” so that same episode. She says, “I have to write I have run marathons fasted, I am an ex-smoker.” Oh, we also talked about smoking in that episode. She said regarding, “Running fasted, you definitely need to train your body.” This is Melanie talking. That's what I was just talking about. She says, “I will never forget listening to ‘real runners’ telling me I was crazy doing it. But really, I am 60 years old, and I have been working out since I was 13 years old and back in the 70s, you shouldn't eat or drink when working out.”

Gin Stephens: That's true. I think things were different. This whole idea of the pre-workouts, and fueling up, and eating all the time, this is new.

Melanie Avalon: They're onto something back then. [laughs] She says, “Now, I do drink water if working out more than one hour. Since I’ve turned 50 years old, I’ve run 12 half marathons and two full ones. Always fasted, black coffee only before the race, water during the race.” Before I read her next part-- That's great. That's two people reporting back that they run marathons fasted, but like Marcella pointed out, definitely something to train for. I'm so motivated now. She's done so many marathons.

Gin Stephens: Are you going to do one?

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] Well, then, what are you motivated to do? [laughs] Inspired? Is that a better word?

Melanie Avalon: I'm motivated not to run a marathon, but I'm motivated about energetically active activities.

Gin Stephens: Okay, that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon: I was actually rereading, or I reread Dr. Valter Longo's book, The Longevity Diet, because I'm going to interview him. He was talking about this at the beginning about the different ages that people are doing certain things, and he was saying how a lot of the best marathoners are-- I don't remember that age range he gave. Mid or late 30s. I don't know, that was also motivating. Then, Marcella says, “Regarding the ex-smoker question, I am also an ex-smoker over 10 years. When you smoke, you smoke when hungry. That is why smokers are thin. When quitting, it's important not to replace cigarettes with food. Try to replace them with some hobby. Cigarettes keep your metabolism higher, because you have to breathe more times than a regular nonsmoker.” I've never heard that before.

Gin Stephens: Well, think about it, because you need oxygen. So, it does make sense that you would be breathing more times because you're breathing in the smoke and not the oxygen, and you have to breathe to get the oxygen.

Melanie Avalon: It must be that plus I know nicotine as well has an effect. I'm guessing it's a synergistic thing. She says, “An easy fix is increase your activities. Walk, run, do something with your body. Thank you for sharing all what you know, I love listening to all of your podcasts.” When these questions come in, I read them, and then I ask our assistant to put them either in our prep document if we're going to read them, and so our assistant, Sharon, she wanted to add in after reading this question. She said, “I would like to add that I am an ex-smoker. When I quit, I vowed that every time I wanted a cigarette, I would chug two cups of water. It filled my stomach, cracking down on the hunger issue and gave me that hand-to-mouth replacement habit that smokers need. I always had a bottle of water with me everywhere I went. I also added one half hour of exercise every day. Even if it was just a simple walk, I never gained a pound, not one. I've helped several people in my health coaching practice to quit smoking, and the one book I recommend is Allen Carr's The Easy Way to Stop Smoking. It changed my life as it has many others including quite a few celebrities, including Ellen DeGeneres.”

Gin Stephens: I think he wrote one about drinking as well, The Easy Way to Stop Drinking. I feel he did.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, very cool. Again, for listeners, we'll put links to all of that in the show notes. I'm not smoking but I find that motivating, too for any habit. I'm just pondering the meaning of the word ‘motivating’ now. Does motivating have to motivate you to do the thing that it's talking about?

Gin Stephens: I know you said you were motivated before, and so it made me feel like you were motivated to run. You can be motivated to do something else. It doesn't have to be the same exact thing. I was just trying to understand what you were motivated to do, because if you're going to--

Melanie Avalon: Not run a marathon.

Gin Stephens: I'd like to see that. [laughs] No, I'm not going to do it, so I get it. I'm motivated to go play in the ocean some more. How’s that?

Melanie Avalon: That's great. I've started using more and more that X3 System, the resistant bands, the John Jaquish? I'm very impressed. I watched the videos online, but I've been a bit casual in my approach. I'm just pulling the bands, and doing the thing, and I should probably sit down and do the concentrated exercise, but I'm seeing massive improvements just from doing it for a few minutes. I'm very much in shock.

Gin Stephens: Wow, that's great. I need to maybe do something like that. I would do that.

Melanie Avalon: Let me do it for real, actually watch the videos and do it and report back. I want to have done it by the time I release his episode. I'm very, very impressed. For listeners, what I'm talking about, the link is melanieavalon.com/x3. The coupon code, MELANIEAVALON, I think will give you a discount. I'll check on that and put the right code in the show notes if it's not that. But yeah, any other thoughts about the smoking, the weight, the running?

Gin Stephens: Just a disclaimer to say, please don't start smoking to lose weight.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes.

Gin Stephens: That's all. [laughs] Because Marcella mentioned that's why smokers are thin. That would not be the thing to do.

Melanie Avalon: I'll put a link in the show notes. Dr. Peter Attia recently released a really good episode on nicotine that was very interesting. I’ll put a link if people want to learn more.

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Gin Stephens: All right, so we have a question from Jenny, and the subject is “Interesting article.” She says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I just found an interesting article very much the opposite of what you're preaching.” The article that Jenny shared, we’ll have a link to it in the show notes. It's called The Damaging Double Standard Behind Intermittent Fasting. Yes, it just came out, and then of course, anytime anything like that comes out, a million people send it to me. [laughs] Did they send it to you, too?

Melanie Avalon: Did a lot of other people send it to you?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, that's so interesting.

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. People send me things all the time. They're like, “Have you seen this?” I'm like, “Yes, a hundred times. Thank you.” [laughs] But if no one sent it to me, I would see it zero times. It's better to see it a hundred times than zero times, right? Anyway, she said, “I love to listen to your podcast, and I'm doing IF for over a year, on and off. I work in hotels and restaurants, and my shifts are always changing. It's very hard to keep a daily routine. My sister-in-law is a doctor, and all about fasting and how it's benefiting people with bad health conditions. I think her handle is #TheDoctorAaron on Instagram. She's all about changing healthcare with focusing on the whole body, and not just giving people prescription drugs.

I'm originally from Germany, and live in Alaska for a little over two and a half years. It's such a fun place. Everyone needs to visit. I met my now husband the first day I visited Alaska as a tourist in 2016. He showed me the northern lights and, well, the rest is history. Keep up the good work. It's really fun to listen to you guys, Jenny.”

Melanie Avalon: Again, we'll put a link in the show notes to this article. The article is The Damaging Double Standard Behind Intermittent Fasting. Basically, it talks about Jack Dorsey who practices intermittent fasting, eating. I'm sorry, it kills me, because when I hear his interviews, he eats the same thing that I eat. But he does basically a one meal a day approach with protein, greens, and mixed berries, and then the bulk of the article is about how with different dietary approaches-- and they list a lot of other things as well not just intermittent fasting. Like when Gwyneth Paltrow did a 300 calorie a day detox, Nicole Richie talking about her diet of sunflower seeds, celery juice, and chewing gum. They talk about today's shows, I'm going to backtrack a little.

I really want to encourage listeners to have a very discerning eye when reading articles, and how things are portrayed and subtly put together to create certain implications. For example, in this article, they list these different diets. They list Gwyneth Paltrow doing 300 calories a day in January. Nicole Richie eating sunflower seeds, celery juice, and chewing gum. Then, right after that, they list The Today Show hosts who weighed themselves on live television after spending the week eating only between 10 and 6. The first two are extremely restrictive things, extremely restrictive. Not even slightly restrictive. No questions asked, restrictive, and then the next thing they list is an intermittent fasting example. But because you have in your head, the two prior examples of crazy diets, that's what your brain is set up for, and you're automatically prescribing that to intermittent fasting. Eating from 10 to 6, which is an eight-hour window., so that's a 16:8 approach.

In my opinion, again, this is all my opinion, just as a concept that is nowhere near eating 300 calories a day, [laughs] or eating sunflower seeds, celery juice, and chewing gum. That's an example, I think, of how intermittent fasting can be portrayed in the media. They're equating it to other restrictive things when it is not necessarily that, and the reason I say not necessarily is because those hosts, true, from 10 to 6, they could have been just eating 300 calories, in which case, it would have been the same level of restriction but it's not necessarily. That's not even the main point of the article.

The main point of the article-- because it does talk more about intermittent fasting and it does sort of paint it as a restrictive approach. The main point of the article is that, when women engage with these dietary approaches, be it restrictive diets, or intermittent fasting, even though the articles linking those together, that men can engage in them, and the response is different. Basically, when women do these diets, it's seen as an eating disorder, disordered eating, a problem, an issue. When men do it, it's often seen as a way to be successful or a way to optimize their performance. That's really the thesis of the article, is how culture perceives men versus women engaging in these diets.

I actually think this is something really important to draw attention to, not so much for the takeaway that I take from this article, which-- the takeaway I took from the article, and people can read it for themselves, and see what they feel about it. I felt like it was saying intermittent fasting is disordered eating, and that when women do it, it may be seen as disordered eating, but when men do it, it's usually not seen as disordered eating. I disagree with that. I think that intermittent fasting by itself does not mandate a state of restriction or a state of disordered eating. It can. It very easily can, especially if you struggle with eating disorders, and especially if you're being restrictive in your fasting window.

Then, on top of that, and this is what I really want to draw attention to, and why I actually like things like this article, because I think it gets people thinking is, how men versus women engaging in any dietary approach are treated differently in culture. There's a reason for that. It's because women in general are more prone to eating disorders. But I think that does a disservice to both genders, because women on the one hand might not have disordered eating, but are more likely going to be, especially if they're doing something like fasting, which may raise some eyebrows, more likely to be “accused” of disordered eating, even if they're not. Then, on the flip side, for men, they might have disordered eating, and it won't be seen that way. Because there's this stigma that or this idea that men don't really have eating disorders the way that women do. I think that's equally a problem. Because for men who are struggling with eating disorders, I think that can be really, really hard. Because there's such a social stigma around it, that I think it can be really hard for men to seek out help if they need help in that regard.

If I were to rewrite this article, [laughs] I would talk about how intermittent fasting is not necessarily, I have already said this, but just to say it again, it's not necessarily restriction. It's not a synonym to restrictive eating or disordered eating, but it very easily can be. Men and women both can struggle with eating disorders. Men and women both cannot as well. I think we should do the best that we can to look at the individual and lose the social paradigm, and the preexisting ideologies, and beliefs, and biases that we have surrounding fasting, restriction, eating disorders, and just look at the person, and what is happening, and what are they eating, and is there an eating disorder, and those are my thoughts. That was long.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I'm always so irritated by articles that hint that intermittent fasting is an eating disorder. I've never felt saner about food since I've been an intermittent faster. It feels everything I did before intermittent fasting felt disordered. Now, finally, I feel undisordered.

Melanie Avalon: I don't really get that feeling. For me, being selective in my food choices makes me feel better. I feel really good existing within the foods I choose to eat. To a lot of people, I think that looks restrictive, and it's concerning to me that that can be seen as an eating disorder or something. One of the quotes in the article, they're quoting Dr. Cynthia Bulik, she's the Director of the Center for Excellence for Eating Disorders at the University of North Carolina, and the Director of the Center for Eating Disorders Innovation at the Karolinska Institute. She says, people who have extreme eating behaviors intermittent fasting, biohacking, like, I don't even know I'm so confused. Biohacking? Biohacking, extreme pickiness can have variants of anorexia nervosa or avoidant restrictive food intake disorder, and go undetected, because they are packaged as healthy or productivity promoting.

This is another example, like lumping in the word biohacking with-- I'm just very confused as to how the word ‘biohacking’ is an extreme eating behavior. They're just a lot of generalizations. But on top of that, I agree. I think a lot of people do have restrictive eating patterns and present it as what she says healthier productivity promoting. Making the generalizations, it just doesn't take in the nuance, and it doesn't take into account all the people who feel so, so free with intermittent fasting, and finally don't feel restricted, and finally our eating all that they want in their eating window, all the nourishing food that they need, all the cellular energy, and are finally free from the cravings. I was thinking about it even more, one of my posts this week on my Instagram, I feel this whole thing is a soapbox.

But one of my posts this week on my Instagram is in reference to the conversation that I have with Dr. Will Cole for his book, Intuitive Fasting, and it was one of the problems with intuitive eating, and I was just quoting what he was saying about how it can be really hard to intuitively eat with our modern diet and our modern health conditions, and our blood sugar, and our inflammation, and sometimes people just can't healthily-- Depending on your type, and your body, and your health, and your mindset, it might not be possible for them to “intuitively” moderately engaged with certain foods, and it might actually be easier and healthier to completely avoid the foods that aren't working for them, and I got a lot of comments.

Gin Stephens: Can I jump in on that?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: I know you've heard me talk about this before, but I don't know if you remember, though. I was doing intuitive eating big time. I read all the books, and this is prior to intermittent fasting. That's what I was most recently trying to do when I got up to 210 pounds. But they tell you in all of the intuitive eating literature, “Don't change what you're eating. Just start listening to your body.” I was like, “All right.” They're like, “Eat what you want, not what you think you should eat.” Okay, so, I continued to eat the standard American diet and all the ultra-processed foods, and I was unable to be intuitive within that eating paradigm, because my body was still craving nutrients that I wasn't sending it. If I asked myself, “Are you hungry?” The answer was always, “Yes.” Because I seriously was starved for nutrients. He's right. The intuitive eating paradigm totally let me down when I did it that. But once I started doing intermittent fasting, started listening to my body, now I feel I am an intuitive eater within my window, whereas I could not be an intuitive eater before. So, the intuitive eating community just railed on him about the fasting as being so unintuitive, but amazingly, that's what unlocked the intuitive part. It's like, “Huh, [laughs] he's right.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no, 100%. I think the intuitive eating so much more easily comes after you've made those changes and especially something like fasting. Can I read the quote from him?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: For listeners, you can check out my Instagram for this. But he says, “I agree that diet culture is messed up and shaming your way into wellness is not going to happen. But the result then is this rebound, opposite other extreme, where they suspend all science and logic, that you can somehow intuitively eat junk food, and somehow that's going to bring about you feeling great in your body. Over 60% of the United States has a massive blood sugar problem. This is most people. This isn't some rare sect of people. So, if intuitive eating works for you, that's great, but you're not the majority of the United States. The majority of the United States has a massive blood sugar problem and are somewhere on that inflammation spectrum, more specifically, the insulin-resistant inflammation spectrum.

The majority of the human race, specifically in the West are struggling with hangriness and insatiable cravings, that drive them towards things that perpetuate their problems. They're going to feel horrible in their own body, and they're actually going to be decreasing their quality of life. If you really love yourself, you have to ask the question. Is that really your intuition? The reality is, it's not going to bring about health. If it works for you keep on doing it, but many people are not served by broad sweeping overgeneralized statements where they're romanticizing junk food and calling itself love. Feeding chronic disease isn't self-love. It's actually metabolic problems. That's part of the conversation that I wanted to have in the book, Intuitive Fasting.”

I just think it's a really, really wonderful, nuanced conversation. I think this article here is tapping into this dialogue where people who feel they need to change their food and be “restrictive” in their food choices. That's leading to freedom and metabolic flexibility ultimately, but not necessarily, I don't know.

Gin Stephens: Well, there's a fine line. Have you ever read anything by Dr. Steven Bratman?

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: He's the guy who invented the terminology orthorexia, and that's the fear of eating certain things. I actually dug into this in Clean(ish). Now, available for pre-order, because I'm talking about eating mostly clean. One of the biggest criticisms of the clean eating movement in general is that it leads people to develop orthorexia, or fear of food. I wanted to confront that right on and explain there's a difference between eating for health versus orthorexia, fear of eating. He does a great job talking about it. He, actually Dr. Bratman, in his book explains his own descent into orthorexia, and how it helped the health food movement that got him there, and how he came out of it. It's just a very interesting story.

There's a fine line sometimes. You want to eat for health, but not be paralyzed with fear about food. We went to a seafood buffet last week. [giggles] It was totally not what I normally eat. Everything was fried. I know those oils aren't good, but I ate them. I wasn't scared of them, but I realized I wouldn't feel my best. I didn't feel my best the next day, and now, I'm really glad to be eating at home or at the condo, but even if I had said no to eating those fried foods, that would have been okay too. To say, “You know what? I don't want to feel that, so, I'm not going to eat that.”

He talks a lot-- there's a self-test you can do to see if you might have some of the characteristics. It's not a recognized eating disorder yet, orthorexia. But it's a proposed eating disorder. So, if you find yourself, this is for listeners, feeling like you're going down that rabbit hole of, I can only have celery juice, and sunflower seeds, and gum, [giggles] then maybe you want to check out that self-test and see.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I reread the conclusion. I get now what they're proposing. They're proposing that, if people saw men as having eating disorders more than fasting-- it sounds like they think that, because men aren't seen as having eating disorders in society that intermittent fasting maintains all of its perceived benefits, because men are doing it and we don't see anything wrong with it. Basically, they're saying that if men were seen as having eating disorders, then fasting in general would probably be seen as an eating disorder regardless.

Gin Stephens: That's why that article irritated me so much, because it seems to be very preachy about it. He shares all these really extreme examples and paint the picture of intermittent fasting as an eating disorder, but we glamorize it because they're men. That's the part that makes me so frustrated, because anyone who has an eating disorder is going to misuse all the tools. Fasting is a tool, colonics are a tool. When I use that, [giggles] but you know what I'm saying? All of the tools taking a laxative, any tool that is actually a living tool can be abused. Eating carrots is a tool for healthy food. But if you only eat carrots, and you only eat three carrots a day, that's an eating disorder. But that doesn't mean carrot is an eating disorder.

Melanie Avalon: That's an amazing way of putting it. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: It's frustrating to see the lack of nuance in all of this.

Melanie Avalon: In a topic that clearly begs nuance.

Gin Stephens: Absolutely.

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Gin Stephens: Let's shift into the question from Heather, and the topic is “Night shift nurse,” and this dovetails in with what Jenny said about her shifts changing and being hard and to keep a daily routine. Heather says, “Hey, Gin, and Melanie. I've been listening to you ladies for a while now off and on. I recently started working 12-hour night shifts on weekends. I'm struggling with figuring out a schedule, because I sleep all day, and work all night on the weekends. The transition is what I'm struggling with trying to figure out. Do you have any advice, tips, or tricks? Thanks so much, Heather.”

Melanie Avalon: All right. This is a great question from Heather. We've had episodes before on night shifts, but I was just thinking through her schedule. I'm assuming she works during the weekdays during the day, and then goes to sleep, and then, it sounds like on the weekends, I'm guessing she probably goes in at 6 PM or something, and works until 6 AM-ish, something like that. One suggestion I had, and I'm really curious, Gin, if you have go-to suggestions people have shared. But if you're doing a one meal a day schedule, could you always have your one meal a day as dinner, for example? On weekdays, you're just having dinner after work, and then going to bed, and then when you switch to the night schedule, you have your dinner before work, and then go to work, and then come back and sleep, and then wake up and eat, and then go into work ff you don't mind working on a full stomach, some people prefer working on an empty stomach. But it might be possible that you literally would not really have to change your eating window, is just that the working and sleeping would change around a little. Another thing you could do is, do your fasting during the weekdays normally, and just for the weekends-- some people don't do intermittent fasting every single day. The weekends, just be more lacs and just eat when you're hungry, and don't stress about it too much emotionally or mentally, and then just get back into the routine of things during the weekdays. Gin, do you have suggestions?

Gin Stephens: Well, gosh, I wish I had my friend, Sheri, who cohost’s Life Lessons with me, because this is exactly what she does. She has 12-hour night shifts on weekends. Yes, she works in healthcare. I'm pretty sure this is what Sheri does. During the week, when she's not working the shifts, she eats-- Probably, she does a loose one meal a day, usually snack and a meal kind of a thing. She’ll open her window, midafternoon, and then eat, and then have a dinner kind of thing closes her window. Snack and a meal, probably for four-hour window, five-hour window something like that. Then, when she goes into work on the weekend, she doesn't eat at her normal time that day, but she delays and she eats overnight, later in the shift. She'll just have a longer fast--

Melanie Avalon: Oh, during the shift.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. She just has a longer fast when she gets off work. She eats during work at some point. She'll take something with her and eat it later into her shift, and then she comes home and goes to bed, and then when she wakes up. She just basically ends up-- Then, she has her work fasting schedule, and she just has that one longer fast as she transitions.

Melanie Avalon: It's actually sort of similar to what I said, but she pushes back the meal a little bit.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, she pushes back that first day that she has the night shift.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yay. I'm excited. That's similar to what I suggested.

Gin Stephens: But she doesn't eat before she goes to work. She pushes it later. She has just a little bit of a longer fast.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, gotcha.

Gin Stephens: But she makes it work for her. That might not be what works for Heather. So, you've got to figure out what feels right to you and when you choose to eat, there's no right or wrong answer.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, what I would probably do if it was me, because I know myself, I know what I would probably do. I would be doing my dinner every night, and then the first night shift, I would probably do the whole shift fasted, and then, I would eat once I got back, I would sleep, and I would eat after the next shift and sleep, and then I would go back to my dinner routine during the weekdays.

Gin Stephens: I just don't know. I would not be good at working a night shift, because I would not be able to stay awake that long. I don't know how all of y'all do it. Everyone who does the night shift, I admire you. I am no good without-- and I could get so sleepy. That was one thing when I was here with my family, because I stayed up later every night, but I still woke up bright and early. In the beach house, in the summer, that appears to be 6 AM, because that's when the sun comes up, and I can see it through the blinds. So, every day I woke up at 6 AM no matter how late we stayed up the night before talking.

Melanie Avalon: See, this is why-- because me and my night person-- This is why my example I just gave, I could do that. I would get so alert during the night shift. If I were to eat, then I would get really tired. So, I would have to eat after. Actually, now that I think about it, sometimes when I was doing extra work in LA after I graduated, it would be the situation because sometimes we would have night shoots, and on those days, I get back at 4 AM, or 5 AM, or 6 AM. I never would eat. I would just eat when I got back. Then, I would just reset to-- If I got back at 6 AM, I would eat and then I would sleep and then I would still eat my normal dinner that night, and that would get me back into normal routine. It was a longer fast, but then it got compensated for in a way because I would eat much sooner.

Gin Stephens: One night was longer, the next was shorter.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly.

Gin Stephens: I think we have time for one more.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. All right. We have a question from Eric. The subject is, “First week of IF.” Eric says, “Your podcast has been so helpful. Thank you. This may be a routine question. If so, I apologize. I'm 45, 6’2”, and 195 pounds. I started IF this week and I'm shrinking my window to five hours. I notice that by the 15th hour, I’ve start to get lightheaded, tingle sensation, and hangry. Will my tolerance increase over time? I'm worried I won't be as kind at home as I am when I am on my best behavior at the office when feeling hangry.”

Gin Stephens: The answer is yes. Your tolerance will increase over time. Even if we knew that this was not his first, week you can tell just by the 15th hour the way he's starting to feel. Yep. Your body is learning how to do something new, and you're not fat adapted yet. Once, you get to that point, you still might have a little wave of hunger at some point in the morning, but it'll come and go very quickly. This is totally normal for the adjustment period, Eric, and so, by the time you hear this, you're probably going to be already over that. You'll have answered it yourself by the fact that you feel better, but totally normal at first.

Melanie Avalon: I have a question, because I know in the past there have been situations I feel like where people have said that they feel dizzy or something, and you've said to eat, and he mentions lightheaded?

Gin Stephens: Well, okay, if you feel shaky or nauseous, then go ahead and eat. I don't know what he means by a tingle sensation. I've never heard that before. I don't know what that is. If you feel shaky or nauseous, don't push through that. Go ahead and eat. That's your body signaling that your blood sugar is low. It probably, don't push through lightheaded. I was just saying, yes, it gets better.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. I was just trying to clarify.

Gin Stephens: As you adjust. you will not feel shaky, and nauseous or lightheaded once your body adjusts. As long as you're fasting clean, you shouldn't have those feelings. It does get better but you don't want to push through a low blood sugar shakiness kind of thing. But I don't ever get those. Do you ever feel shaky or nauseous or anything?

Melanie Avalon: Nuh-huh. Nauseous, I started getting nauseous, but it was not related to the fasting. It was a lot of other factors, I think. But yes. In any case, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode which will be super important, because we feel we talked about a lot of things, those will be at ifpodcast.com/episode222. You can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast, Gin is @ginstephens, I am @melanieavalon, and I think that is all the things. Can I tell you one quick thing before we go?

Gin Stephens: No. [giggles] Sorry. I was joking. Yes, please tell me.

Melanie Avalon: Can I give you an update on my cottage cheese adventures?

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah, how's that going?

Melanie Avalon: I make it every day, and I've been trying all different milks, basically, all the possible fat-free organic milks that you can find.

Gin Stephens: What do you mean?

Melanie Avalon: Like Organic Valley.

Gin Stephens: Oh, you mean the brands. I was wondering if you were talking about dairy milk versus almond milk, and I wouldn't think those others would work.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, they don't. Organic Valley has a grass milk. There's a grass milk, there's a lactose-free milk, there's the normal-- Apparently, fun fact, apparently, did you know, Gin, that the milk that is in the cartons is usually ultra-pasteurized, but the ones in the gallons like the plastic is usually just pasteurized?

Gin Stephens: Well, no, I actually did not know that.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, and so apparently, just pasteurized works better but I can't find the fat-free pasteurized in a gallon. So, this is the conundrum that I'm in. But last night, when I tried, I read that when you make, it separates it into the casing and the whey, and the casing is the curds and whey is the whey, like the liquid. I was reading that you could, A, turn the whey into ricotta, I haven't tried that yet. And or B, turn it into-- have you heard of brown cheese?

Gin Stephens: Brown? Like the color brown?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Okay, wait, it's also called--

Gin Stephens: No, I have not heard of brown cheese.

Gin Stephens: It's also called I have no idea how you say this, G-J-E-T-O-S-T.

Gin Stephens: No. Uh-huh. I don't know how to say that. That sounds German.

Melanie Avalon: It's Norwegian.

Gin Stephens: Okay.

Melanie Avalon: I tried to make it last night. I don't know if it really worked. I'm not sure, it's in the fridge right now. But oh, my goodness, Gin, it tasted like honey. I was shocked. It was shocking. It tastes like caramel. Like caramel honey, the amount of sugar, my heart jumped through the roof, and I was just like, I was like I can't believe there's this much sugar and milk. If you reduce it, it was shocking. It also made me realize that you could bake really intense desserts and not even need a drop of refined sugar, because this-- I don't know. I'm in shock how that whey transformed.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's interesting. Yeah. I had no idea.

Melanie Avalon: Experiments in the dairy and cheese world.

Gin Stephens: [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That's fun. You make your bread, I make my cottage cheese.

Gin Stephens: Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon: So, anything else from you before we go?

Gin Stephens: Nope, I don't think so.

Melanie Avalon: Right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right, talk to you then. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. The music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jun 27

Episode 219: Exercise, Muscle Building, Protein Intake, Electrolytes, Hydration, PCOS, Fertility, Pregnancy, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 219 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get Free BACON For LIFE!! The Science, Nutrition, And Health Implications Of Conventional Vs. Sustainable, Grass-fed, Pastured, And Wild Meat And Seafood, Featuring My Honest Butcher Box Review!
The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #57 - Robb Wolf

4:00 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

19:00 - INSIDETRACKER: Go To insidetracker.com/melanie And Use The Coupon Code MELANIE30 For 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

21:40 - Listener Q&A: Ryan - IF All Or Nothing

43:05 - BIOPTIMIZERS:  Go To magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

46:00 - Listener Q&A: Mikelle - Not working? (PCOS)

Intermittent Fasting Stories - Episode 34: Cecily Ganheart

47:15 - Listener Q&A: Kati - Pregnancy

DRY FARM WINES: Natural, Organic, Low Alcohol, Low Sugar Wines, Paleo And Keto Friendly! Go To dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast To Get A Bottle For A Penny!

BEAUTYCOUNTER: Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 219 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I'm about to tell you how you can get sugar-free, nitrate-free, pastured bacon for life. Yes, free bacon for life. We are so honored to be sponsored by ButcherBox. They make it so, so easy to get high quality humanely raised meat that you can trust. They deliver 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef, free-range organic chicken, heritage-breed pork, that's really hard to find, by the way, and wild-caught sustainable and responsible seafood shipped directly to your door.

When you become a member, you're joining a community focused on doing what's better for everyone, that includes caring about the lives of animals, the livelihoods of farmers, treating our planet with respect and enjoying deliciously better meals together. There is a lot of confusion out there when it comes to transparency, regarding raising practices, what is actually in our food, how animals are being treated. I did so much research on ButcherBox, you can actually check out my blog post all about it at melanieavalon.com/butcherbox. I am so grateful for all of the information that I learned about their company.

All of their beef is 100% grass fed and grass finished, that's really hard to find. they work personally with all the farmers to truly support the regenerative agriculture system. I also did an interview with Robb Wolf on my show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, all about the massive importance of supporting regenerative agriculture for the sustainability of not only ourselves but the planet, this is so important to me. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. If you recently saw a documentary on Netflix called Seaspiracy, you might be a little bit nervous about eating seafood. Now I understand why ButcherBox makes it so, so clear and important about how they work with the seafood industry. Everything is checked for transparency, for quality, and for sustainable raising practices. You want their seafood. The value is incredible. The average cost is actually less than $6 per meal. It's so easy, everything ships directly to your door.

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Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer, is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. So, when you're putting on your conventional skincare and makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare and makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. Did you know that conventional lipstick, for example, often tests high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body.

Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter, and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, you can actually feel good about what you put on. on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients, to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, antiaging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter.

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list, and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. Again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now enjoy the show.

Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 219 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I'm good. How are you?

Melanie Avalon: I'm good. For listeners, we're struggling. Gin and I forgot how we--

Gin Stephens: I think either you didn't say or maybe my sound cut out. Because I swear I don't think I heard you say it. I was waiting by sitting here. The likelihood that it's my sound going out is highly likely because my internet is still wacky.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, we struggled recording our intro that we recorded 219 times. [laughs] Good times.

Gin Stephens: It's like when you're so good at driving a car that you forget how to drive the car when you're trying to think about it, it's like, “I don't know how to drive the car. How do you start the car? I don't know.”

Melanie Avalon: Like you're driving and then you randomly for a second overanalyze the lanes or the turn signal or something, and you're like, “Wait.”

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I will be driving in my car, and Chad will say, “How do you turn on the whatever?” and I'm like, “I had no idea. I just turn it on.”

[laughter]

Gin Stephens: Anyway.

Melanie Avalon: It's so funny. We run so many programs and the part of our brain that just runs it on autopilot. When we think about it, it's a different part of our brain.

Gin Stephens: It's true. Just try to walk and think about every action your body's making. You just can't do it. Even walking across the room.

Melanie Avalon: Stressful.

Gin Stephens: It is. Anything new going on with you?

Melanie Avalon: Actually, yes. Well, more of just updates. I'm continuing to take care of my cucumbers. It's perfect timing, because I'm reading a book called Flowerevolution, it's about flowers, but it is blowing my mind about plants. You know how we were talking last time about the consciousness of plants?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Do you know they've done studies on plants where they put stress detectors on the plants, and then they do things and the plants know, the plants freak out?

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I am fascinated by that type of research. Even playing music for plants. Have you heard the studies about what they do to water? Scream at the water and then pour it in the plants, and the plants are, like, “Oh my God, what's happening?” Just because you screamed at the water. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: I have to read the original study. She said they did one study where the guy had a plant, it was his plant, and then he went to another state. They did a surprise birthday party for him, and at the moment that they screamed surprise, and he got really scared, the plant spiked.

Gin Stephens: Wow, that's fascinating. It all does sound really crazy until you think about the fact that we are all just energy. Even my chemist husband, who's just Mr. Science mind, he's like, “Yep, that's true. We are all energy,” at our molecular level, and we're mostly space and we're energy. The way our energy is all connected, like quantum physics, it's just way so, so much. There's so much that we're still understanding.

Melanie Avalon: Something that made it seem very clear and not as woo-woo to me, was she compared it to the internet and text messages. We send messages every day through energy, like with text messages.

Gin Stephens: The only reason it's woo-woo is because we don't understand it.

Melanie Avalon: That's what she said. She says that we don't understand the plant language, like we don't understand that energy system. We don't think it's there, we think it's not real.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's like when they used to think thunder was God is mad at you. [laughs] They didn't understand scientifically why we were having thunder. When we can't understand it, we think, “Well, that can't be true,” or that has to have a magical source or whatever. Yeah, it is fascinating. It's why you just can't discount things even though it might sound, like you said, woo-woo.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. Second update. I am prepping for Valter Longo for the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Remember when we interviewed him, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Yes. Now, what if I had said, “No, I don't remember that.” [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That would be--

Gin Stephens: Crazy? Yeah, no, I do remember.

Melanie Avalon: I'm rereading his book. Is it The Longevity Diet? Yes, The Longevity Diet. There's so many books with the word ‘longevity’ in them. It's interesting to me how much I forgot from that book. Just rereading it now, because I only read it a few years ago, but I feel like I'm reading it for the first time.

Gin Stephens: It was like four years ago, right? Or was it 2018? Was it 2018 that we had?

Melanie Avalon: Probably 2018.

Gin Stephens: Okay, that was three years ago.

Melanie Avalon: Do you want to play the guessing game for something from it?

Gin Stephens: Oh, Lordy. Yeah, go ahead.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. So, I just read this right before we got on the call. I was like, “Oh, this is the perfect guessing game question.” For listeners, Valter Longo is the-- I don't know if he's the director of, but he he's at the Gerontology Longevity Institute at USC, and he is a fasting researcher and he developed the fasting mimicking diet and his company is ProLon. So, he's all about fasting. Oh, and he's in everything. I feel like everything I watch now, I see him. He was in that Goop Lab show. I've been watching Zac Efron’s show on Netflix called something about the earth. It's a lot of biohacking health stuff, he was in that. I just keep seeing him everywhere.

In any case, what do you think, when they were studying fasting water fasts in mice? What was the four changes that they identified as the important, protective, antiaging, health-promoting factors of fasting that they tried to recreate with the fasting mimicking diet? Like they wanted to create a diet that would create these four factors? Isn't this a fun game?

Gin Stephens: Well, no, it's going to be hard. All right, number one, would be calorie restriction.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, wait, no.

Gin Stephens: I don’t understand the question.

Melanie Avalon: When they tested the blood, what four blood markers?

Gin Stephens: Okay, okay, okay. I'm going to say blood glucose went down.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. One. Oh, this is so fun.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] Insulin went down.

Melanie Avalon: I thought that would have been one of them.

Gin Stephens: But did they not test it?

Melanie Avalon: He didn't list it as the four.

Gin Stephens: Okay, in their blood. Did ketones go up?

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Two.

Gin Stephens: Okay. I don't know, do mice have cholesterol? Do they measure cholesterol?

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. It's not one of the ones.

Gin Stephens: Okay. All right. So, I got two of them. Let's see.

Melanie Avalon: I think you can get the third. I don't think you'll get the fourth.

Gin Stephens: Something they're measuring in the blood of mice. Okay, blood glucose down, ketones up. I don't know, cortisol?

Melanie Avalon: No. I can give you a hint. It relates to growth.

Gin Stephens: Oh, human growth hormone went up?

Melanie Avalon: No.

Gin Stephens: Okay, well, then I don't know. You're just going to have to tell me.

Melanie Avalon: You're close, lower IGF-1. Then, the fourth one that I didn't think you would get, higher IGFBP-1.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I was not going to get that.

Melanie Avalon: Which is a growth factor inhibitor.

Gin Stephens: I still didn't get it. [laughs] Even though you said it, I couldn't tell you that, no.

Melanie Avalon: Basically, I just found that was really interesting. They found what the water fast that there was lower IGF-1, that's a growth factor promoter. Lower glucose, so lower blood sugar. Higher ketones, and then higher growth factor, IGFBP-1, and that's a growth factor inhibitor. When they created ProLon, or the fasting mimicking diet, they wanted to create a diet that would create those four factors. Pretty cool.

Gin Stephens: Very cool.

Melanie Avalon: Anything new with you?

Gin Stephens: No, not really. I'm in a fabulous, nothing new kind of a time. It feels good. I have been so stressed out the whole from the beginning of the year till when I turned my book in, and also the new Delay, Don't Deny Social Network. So, it has been like just bam, bam, bam. I don't even know where the year went so far, we're already in June. I've got a big family beach trip coming up and it just feels-- Of course, I've got a lot of editing coming up these different weeks when they're going to send me the copy edits and whatever. But right now, I'm in a nice little lull. I'm reading, I think I talked about this before. I bought a hummingbird feeder for my front yard yesterday. The lady said there probably aren't going to be any hummingbirds for a while, that it's still early or something, I don't know. They are in their little nests. Can you imagine how cute a little hummingbird nest is? Oh my gosh, I know. I would just die if I could see a hummingbird nest. That'd be so cute. Anyway, I was joking with some friends yesterday. I was like, “Does this mean I'm legit old and retired because I'm putting my hummingbird feeder in my yard [laughs] and I'm going to stare at it?”

Melanie Avalon: I spent like an hour before this pruning my cucumbers.

Gin Stephens: Okay, well, and that is not a euphemism, people. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Wait, what? A euphemism?

Gin Stephens: A euphemism. It's when you say one thing, but it means something else.

Melanie Avalon: For pruning my cucumbers?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, spicy?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. [laughs] Ah.

Gin Stephens: I don't even know what that would be. But it just sounded a little bit like one of those double meaning kinds of phrases.

Melanie Avalon: No, these are very real, cucumbers.

Gin Stephens: I do want to say the little baby birds that we had in the nest around Mother's Day, they're gone. They've moved out of the nest.

Melanie Avalon: Where did they go?

Gin Stephens: I guess they flew away. Where do birds go? [laughs] But we actually thought for a brief period of time that they were going to die because Ellie had a bird in the dining room, and we thought it was mama bird. It seemed injured, but we put it out, and Chad's like, “That bird is going to die. If that was mama bird, the babies are going to die.” Then, we were like really sad for a while. I don't know, that bird might not have been injured. If it was a mama bird, she came back and fed them. So, the babies didn't die. The last time Chad looked in there at the nest, they were big babies, they're getting so big. Anyway, the circle of life. This is what I'm doing. It's pretty much birds. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Birds and the bees, I'm contemplating-- I don't know, I wish I could get a pet bee to pollinate my flowers.

Gin Stephens: I think you need a whole ecosystem. That sounds like too much. What's next? [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I was seriously contemplating this. I was like, “Could I have a pet bee?”

Gin Stephens: I don't think so. I don't think it's got everything it needs to thrive.

Melanie Avalon: Oh right, because then I have to feed the bee.

Gin Stephens: Well.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, the bee eats the flower?

Gin Stephens: No, it doesn't. It's the nectar and then it does something with it. It's getting the nectar out of there, then takes the nectar back to its hive.

Melanie Avalon: Okay.

Gin Stephens: I could be wrong. I don't think it's like eats the nectar. Eats the nectar, then spits it up in the hive, I'm not sure.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I do remember that.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, like all coming back to me. It's like bee spit. Honey is bee spit. Right?

Melanie Avalon: Another fact I learned from the book about bees and flowers. They used to think bees were attracted to the flower’s color and scent.

Gin Stephens: Isn't it something with like ultraviolet light, like a runway?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's like the energy. It's not the flowers-- or it's not the color.

Gin Stephens: If you look at the flower differently, it's a different wavelength. It's not the visible light spectrum that we see. It's a different wavelength you could see. If you go to the airport and on the runway, like go here, arrows. It's kind of like that to the bee. It's like a landing strip, the way it looks to the bee. I think so. For some reason, that's in my head. It's all that elementary school knowledge. [laughs] Maybe I saw it on Magic School Bus or something.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. I asked my Facebook group for ideas about turning my podcast into a TV show, and one person said, it should be like the adult version of Magic School Bus. I got so excited. That would be so incredible. They were like, “And David Sinclair can be the narrator.” Oh, my goodness. Very cool.

Gin Stephens: I loved that TV show when I was a teacher, but see, you were a kid, I was a teacher. I could have been your fourth-grade teacher.

Melanie Avalon: Oh.

Gin Stephens: It's true.

Melanie Avalon: Could you have? Yes.

Gin Stephens: Yes. I was teaching fourth grade in 1990.

Melanie Avalon: You could not have been my fourth-grade teacher. Oh, wait. Well, you were teaching it after then, too?

Gin Stephens: Yes. And after then. Yes. I could only not have been your teacher if you were in fourth grade prior to 1990.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. Wow.

Gin Stephens: I know. That's how old I am. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: That would have been so crazy.

Gin Stephens: I know.

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Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes. We have a question from Ryan and the subject is “IF, all or nothing.” Ryan says, “Thanks for the comprehensive and fun pod. I've been IFing for eight months and know it has influenced my eating for life. I'm a 35-year-old male who started IF for the health benefits and lifestyle compatibility. I'm finding myself fit as I was a decade ago with my exercise during these IF months oriented around cardio, and mid to low intensity bodyweight workouts. Recently, however, I've increased the intensity of my bodyweight workouts in a push for the summer body I always wanted, but never once had. Removing breakfast and lunch in lieu of a nighttime window has increased my work performance which is great, and I exercise after work in the fasted state before opening my window until bedtime. I've also finally learned to respect the need for adequate sleep, which prompts the first part of my issue.

My window, typically three to four hours, seems no longer large enough to accommodate the calorie intake I need without uncomfortably stuffing myself. I usually spend one or both weekend days eating normally and have started switching my Wednesdays back to non-IF as well. But my body tells me I'm still not getting enough calories in, which wasn't a problem until this recent exercise change. One obvious solution would be to give up my insistence that all workouts occur in the fasted state and to eat lunch or a smaller meal in the early afternoon.

Enter the second part of my issue. I've learned a lunch will throw me for a mental loop for the rest of the workday. Even if it's a low-carb salad with lean protein and healthy fats, for example, avocados, nuts, and seeds, I feel mentally foggy and have notable loss of cognitive function and alertness. I knew this was a problem when my boss asked me on multiple occasions, if I was okay, which itself is a sign that I was not. And this was an issue before the recent increase in exercise intensity, so I know ratcheting back the exercise won't solve it.

Have you experienced this or counseled others who've dealt with it? I can't be trapped by IF, such that deviating from my usual eating schedule puts me somewhat out of commission on work matters. Successful days are either entirely non-IF or fully IF with my usually intense, but short nighttime window. I'd really appreciate your thoughts. Many thanks, Ryan.”

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness, Gin. I have to tell you something, and I can tell listeners as well. I'm so upset. For listeners, I just went to turn off the pumps on the hydroponic plant things and I realized I hadn't turned the pump on one of them. I hadn't turned the pump back on from my last podcast interview. So, the pump hasn't been running for a few days.

Gin Stephens: It'll be okay. Plants are hardy. Think about in the real world, they have to be able to withstand droughts, they have to be able to withstand monsoons, they are resilient. It will be okay.

Melanie Avalon: I was sitting there today. I was staring at it, and I was like, “I just feel like it's not getting the nutrients it needs.” That's probably why.

Gin Stephens: It is fine. It will be okay.

Melanie Avalon: Thank you for talking me off the ledge.

Gin Stephens: Just think about how in nature, plants can do all sorts of crazy things. They're hardy.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, so it's okay. Okay. I'm glad that that happened.

Gin Stephens: Your plant was fasting.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. [laughs] But they're in a growth mode right now, remind me at the end to turn the pump back on. Ryan, this is a really great question, and I thought about it a lot, and I have so many thoughts. Okay, to start, hope I can articulate all of this well, the first thing I have is a question. He talks about how he upped his workout to get the summer body that he always wanted, but never had. He doesn't tell us what his weight or what his stats were before. So, it's important to know-- I'm guessing this is the final push, that stubborn last part, especially since it's for the summer body. The reason I think that's important is, I'm wondering, when he says that he feels he's not getting the amount of fuel-- Does he say fuel or calorie intake?

Gin Stephens: He says calorie intake. Remember, we talked about this last time. The fuel comes from what you're taking in, but also from your body.

Melanie Avalon: All right, so his body says that he's not getting enough calories in. I'm curious what he's experiencing, feeling like he's not getting enough calories. Is it hunger? Is that lack of energy? Does he feel he's not building adequate muscle? What is it? The reason I'm emphasizing that is that if this is the final push, I feel it's a situation where it might be normal to experience hunger. Does that make sense? If it's the final push to do something that's a little bit resistant, I don't know if doing so can be done without feeling any sort of--

Gin Stephens: A little hungry.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I would evaluate first, as far as maybe, are you getting enough calories in? Maybe you are for the goal that you're achieving? I don't know, because I don't know exactly where he's at. But that's my first part. I also want to do a disclaimer and a clarification, obviously, we're not doctors. But two, I do think when it comes to this, as far as the body having hormonal issues and things like that, that it's less common in men. Men can more healthfully do what Ryan is doing than women without having to worry quite as much about creating a lot of hormonal damage. And the reason I say that is if it is a natural state of hunger that he actually needs to be in to get the “body” he wants, it might all be okay.

All of that said, the continuation of my thoughts. First of all, I completely relate with when you're doing fasting, and then it's hard to go back to daytime eating and experiencing the brain fog or the loss of cognitive function like he says, and I'm really jealous. I feel some people do fasting, like a one meal a day type thing, and then they are able to eat on days that they want and they don't experience that, and I'm really jealous, but that's not me. I completely understand and identify with that. My suggestion would be, what do you want to preserve with everything? It looks like you really want to preserve the fasted state in the workday, it looks like that's the thing that's really important to keep.

Gin Stephens: The mental clarity. I would keep that obviously-- and then sure, we are going to have to adjust other factors if you do decide that you really do need more calories. Well, I like what he's doing where he said he was doing one or two days of the weekend not fasting, so just do both days of the weekend not fasting is like a thing. Then, he talks about potentially fueling the workout, or not doing the workout in the fasted state. Again, if you decide that you can still get the body composition changes that you want, while not working out in the fasted state some days, then I think that's completely fine. This might sound crazy, but this might be a thing where you might want to do a bulletproof decaf coffee and don't really qualify it either way about it being part of the fast. You might be able to do something with the workouts to get in more calories throughout the day and fuel the workouts without breaking the cognitive state and getting the lethargy. This might actually be a situation where something like MCT oil before some of the workouts might actually work for you.

I'm also wondering, it sounds like you cram everything into your window, your dinner window. I'm guessing there's not really much room to lengthen that at all. Otherwise, I'm assuming you would have done that. But if there is a way you could do that, even if it's just changing around how you're prepping your dinner, maybe there's a way that you can eat your dinner sooner after your workout and have a longer window. Also, if you wanted to add just calories to your window and make them more easily absorbable without feeling like you're completely stuffing yourself, that actually might be something where I brought up the MCT oil, you might be able to add that to your food, to your dinner, and that actually might, A, get you even faster to your goals because I personally experienced and there's this girl on Instagram who's been talking about it a lot. She has a big following, but they're experimenting with adding MCT oil to the meals and actually losing more weight. So, that might be a way to actually add in a lot of calories, but also move you closer to your goal.

The very last thing is, it's a little bit ironic because I'm saying focus on protein and nutrient density. The reason I think it's ironic is because if you're not doing this already, which I feel he probably is, based on what he said, the type of things that he eats. True, if you eat more protein, it's actually going to make it harder to eat more, and I know he's thinking that it needs to eat more, but it's the nutrients, especially with the bodybuilding state and the fat loss state that you want to be eating and need to be eating. So, it might be possible that you don't actually need to eat more calories, but you just need to focus on the protein and the nutrients. So, playing around with what you're eating, it might not be a calorie thing, it might be a macronutrient-nutrient thing. Those are my thoughts. I thought about it a lot.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. It's all just a matter of tweak it till it's easy, Ryan, and finding what feels good to you. You'll really only know it when you feel it and you find it. It sounds like you were feeling great before you increased the intensity of your workouts. That made you feel hungrier, like you weren't getting enough to eat. And then, having the longer window, including lunch, takes away that mental clarity that you were enjoying so much. That totally makes sense, but think about what we always were told by our grandparents, you exercise, you're working up a good appetite. Your body is telling you, you need more fuel, if that's indeed what your body is telling you. It sounds logical to me. Figuring out a way-- and this is where you've just got to tweak it. Like I said, figure out a way to-- I would not suggest having the lunch because clearly that's not feeling right, that would not be the tweak I would make, but playing around with maybe having something in the late afternoon, a little something, and then having your workout.

You hinted earlier that you would consider maybe not working out in the fasted state, so to try that. Just see how that goes. You said, the only way you're having success is to be either all or nothing, non-IF or fully IF. Then, you said you have an intense but short nighttime window. I also want you to consider that as you get to your goal, you're probably going to need more fuel, just in light of the fact that you're not going to be burning as much body fat. Like I found when I got to my goal size, I did need a little more food than I was to lose weight. You need to eat more in maintenance than you did to lose the weight, that's just how our bodies are hungrier because we're maintaining and we're not getting as much fuel from our short fat, if that makes sense. I think I just talked in circles. But hopefully, I made sense with it. Depending on how much fat you're still burning, and how much working out you're doing, think about lengthening that window, but not so long as to impact your workday and make you sluggish. You've got to figure out how you can do that. I wonder if you could work out early before work, then you'd really be ready to go for work and then have an afternoon snack before the end of work.

Melanie Avalon: I thought about that, but then I thought he probably would just be hungry and would have the cognitive issues of eating.

Gin Stephens: Well, it depends. I don't know, working out in the fasted state, it might just really pop up his alertness, make him feel better and more alert, because he's deep in the fat burning state and then have a longer window on the back end.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I guess it would depend if it makes him super hungry right after.

Gin Stephens: Exactly. It would depend on that. I find that when I'm really, really active in the fast, that I'm not as hungry for a while after working out-- during the fasted workout. It all changes up when just in-- maybe the next day, I might be hungrier though. I really do believe that if your body is sending you, “I'm hungry” signals, there's a reason.

Melanie Avalon: I mean, the reason might be that it's this final push and that's why it might be something that you have to just accept. It's hard to know where he's at and what he's trying to do. Like I said, I'm much more comfortable talking about this when it's a man than a female. Not because it's a gender bias, because it's just literally our bodies are different.

One other thing I thought of, so I'm actually interviewing tomorrow, John Jaquish. I don't know how you say his last name. I think I might have mentioned it. Did I mention him to you, Gin? He makes the X3 Resistant Band system.

Gin Stephens: Yes, you mentioned him to me.

Melanie Avalon: I'm really excited because I learned so much in that book. It was a situation where-- because I don't actively seek out exercise science books or information, I probably should. So, it's really nice when it just lands in my lap, they reached out to me to bring him on the show. He's been on Dave Asprey and a lot of other shows and other podcasters that I listen to have been mentioning his bands. His book goes into the exercise science of muscle building, I learned so much. It's so interesting when something that you're steeped in normally-- like tomorrow when we record, I just still don't feel like I have the knowledge that I would like to engage in an intellectual dialogue about it, but that's fine, I'm going to learn.

The point of all this was he talks about usability of proteins. I was trying to look up charts online, because I think people often say that whey protein is super usable, and that's why they use it. I feel he said in the book that it wasn't, which is confusing, but something that also might help Ryan is experimenting with the type of protein that he's eating. For example, like egg whites are typically known to have the highest bioavailability and then fish. Fish is more easily digestible sometimes than other meats, so you might be able to eat more of it, and also get more protein that you need. Then, meat is farther down the line. I was trying to figure out exactly where chicken lies, but that might be something to look up. You could google protein bioavailability.

Gin Stephens: Can I tell you something cool that I just thought of while you were talking? We have new neighbors across the street, and they have gutted the house across the street from the 60s, and they are totally rebuilding it. They're there are a lot, and now that I'm sitting in the front yard, since we're redoing our backyard, I have a lot of time to talk to them, because they are in the front and you're waiting for the workers that are working on the house if they can lock up. Well, the husband of the couple, he is a retired exercise physiology researcher. Fascinating stuff. He was telling me all these stories about-- he worked with top level tennis players and the impact of heat and sweat. He wouldn't tell me what tennis player it was, but it’s somebody we would know. The amount of sweat output he was having, and so he helped him with electrolyte supplementation based on that. He and I had a great discussion about electrolyte supplementation, and who needed it and who didn't. It was really fascinating. This is just in the wild with my neighbor.

Melanie Avalon: No, that's amazing. Exercise science is so fascinating.

Gin Stephens: It really is. Basically, a lot of us don't need it, [laughs] the electrolyte supplementation. But some people do, obviously this high-level tennis player who was working out like crazy and sweating like buckets, he had the highest sweat output, like I said, this exercise researcher had ever seen, is going to need supplementation.

Melanie Avalon: I think a lot of people who are not eating the standard American diet needs electrolytes more, because our processed food is so high in sodium and when people switch to a whole foods diet, they lose a lot of electrolytes.

Gin Stephens: Well, he and I didn't get into that. But we also talked about children and how much heat they can take, which was interesting to me as an elementary teacher. He actually was instrumental in the writing the American Academy of Pediatrics advice for what kids can do in the heat before they need to hydrate and stuff like that. Basically, healthy kids are very resilient. There's no one size fits all, that was the best thing that I took away from the whole conversation, which is everything we say all the time. There is no one size fits all recommendation for anything. He, as a science researcher, found that in everything he was doing as well. He talked about how difficult it was, because the American Academy of Pediatrics wanted a one size fits all recommendation. He's like, “If you're going to do that, I refuse to be a part of it. I'm not doing that.”

Melanie Avalon: One of the things that John says all throughout the book is how he thinks exercise science is-- it has a lot of tenets in it that it sort of wanted to cling to and that it was hard to evolve appropriately.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's all science. I think that's true because when you come up believing something and you're trained in it, just like the cholesterol paradigm, for example. With doctors, that's just one example. When you're trained in something and it's what you believe, it's hard to shift as we learn new things. That's true for all of us.

Melanie Avalon: Actually, one of the stories that Valter Longo tells in his book is, how I guess, in 1994, because there's all these debating theories about aging and longevity and what causes aging. I guess, he formed the idea that we have programs for aging. Cells are programmed to die at a certain time, and maybe you can manipulate those programs based on diet and fasting and things like that. He says a story about how I guess he had a debate in 1994 about the cause of aging, and he put forth his thesis. He said at the end, the audience voted, and the audience was all scientists and lots of people like that, and they voted who they thought was correct, and he lost. With the follow-up polls, he had actually convinced over half of the people of his idea, but people don't like-- I guess in science, it's hard to not accept the current idea, even if they think that something else makes more sense.

Gin Stephens: It's true. Confirmation bias is real, and the inability to change your paradigm is hard. It's hard for people to do when you've believed something for so long. But we all have that in us, and we have to fight against it.

Melanie Avalon: Also, the power of groupthink, so not wanting to go against all the studies they do, where they have people-- like people enter rooms, and they don't know that it's a setup, and everybody will do something weird, but because everybody else is doing it, they'll start doing it, or they won't. This happened to me in real life the other day, and I saw it happening. I was like, “I know this is what this is,” but I still did it. Outside of my apartment, there's the street and there's parallel parking on both sides. You know how parking in streets around communities or neighborhoods can be casual. People might park the wrong way with the parallel parking because it's not the outside world. The road right outside of my apartment, there's parallel parking, and everybody on one side was parked the wrong way. They were all parked opposite the flow of traffic with the parallel parking. There was one open space, and there's like six spots. I was like, “Do I park the way I know I'm supposed to park? Or do I park the wrong way like every other single car?” So, I parked the wrong way. I was like, “This is what this is.”

Gin Stephens: That'd be hard for me as a rule follower.

Melanie Avalon: Would you park the right way?

Gin Stephens: It might depend on what was convenient. Was it more convenient for you to park the “right” way? Or, was it more convenient for you to park like everybody else, based on the way your car was pointed?

Melanie Avalon: Oh, at the time?

Gin Stephens: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: That's a good question. I don't remember. I definitely sat there. I was like, “Hmm.”

Gin Stephens: That would be a factor. Yeah, that actually might have been a factor now that I think about it but I definitely had the debate. I was like, “This is what this is. This is me wanting to go with the group.”

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All right, shall we go on to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: We have two questions sort of related. The first one is from Michelle. The subject is “Not working/PCOS.” Michelle says, “Hey, ladies, love your podcast, I have been intermittent fasting for about a month now. I'm doing a 20:4, sometimes 19:5 window, eating from 3:00 to 7:00 PM, and I feel really good while fasting. However, I am gaining weight, not losing. I do treat myself to ice cream somewhat frequently. Other than that, I eat mostly meat, veggies, fruits, and rice. I also exercise for 30 minutes about three to four times a week, usually jogging or weightlifting. I have PCOS, which I know can make weight loss harder, but I can't help but feel discouraged. I'm not planning to stop doing IF because I really like it. But any advice on what I should change or do differently? How long does it take to start losing?

Lastly, my husband and I are trying to start a family. With PCOS, it's a bit harder but we are working with a great OB-GYN and are hopeful. I listened to your IF stories podcast with the OB-GYN, and I've heard you guys mentioned great things about IF for people with PCOS. My mom keeps sending me articles that say not to do IF when trying to become pregnant because it messes with your cycle. Should I be worried about that? Thanks for all you do.”

Then, a continuation of that after we answer that, we can also address Katie's question about pregnancy. And she says, “Hi, ladies. Love your podcast. I'm currently testing out intermittent fasting. After many hours of research, I see that IF may not be suitable for those trying to get pregnant, or those who are pregnant. Could you shed some light on this? I am trying to conceive, but don't want to do anything to harm myself or the baby. Thank you.”

Gin Stephens: Of course, the number one best advice is have these conversations with your OB-GYN and don't take what we're saying as advice of what you should do. Even the doctor, I'm getting ready to mention Dr. Cecily Ganheart, she says the same thing. I am not your doctor, she'll say-- I've seen on Instagram say it, “Even though I am a doctor, I'm not your doctor, I'm not giving you medical advice.” That would be her talking, not me, because I'm not a doctor. I'm definitely not giving you medical advice. Even a doctor will not give you medical advice at random. So, just keep that in mind.

I want to first go to what Katie said do not do intermittent fasting while you're pregnant. 100%. For everybody who has not yet listened to the episode that Michelle was talking about, it's Episode 34 of Intermittent Fasting Stories, Dr. Cecily Ganheart. If you go to just any Google, whatever, and type in Intermittent Fasting Stories, Cecily Ganheart, G-A-N-H-E-A-R-T, or probably you could type in Intermittent Fasting Stories Episode 34, it'll take you to her episode, and she's an OB-GYN, who is an intermittent faster herself, but she also works with a lot of patients who have PCOS and fertility issues. Her strategy that she uses with those patients is intermittent fasting coupled with dietary changes. So, not to be flippant, I would listen to her before I would listen to your mom. Sorry, mom. I think Dr. Ganheart knows based on what's working with patients. You could find all sorts of articles that say literally anything, including the earth is flat. So, I would not go based on articles anyone is sending you from the internet, unless they're written by-- if there’s any medical journals, that would be different.

With PCOS, Michelle, let's address that, first of all. PCOS is linked to high insulin levels. The reason intermittent fasting works so well is because it lowers your insulin levels naturally, because you're fasting clean, and insulin goes down during the fast. But that is also why Dr. Ganheart with her PCOS patients works on what they're eating as well because when you describe what you're eating, mostly meat, veggies, fruits, and rice, she tends to employ a low-carb approach with her PCOS patients because that's also great at lowering insulin and that’s what you targeted, you're trying to do. She finds with her patients that when you lower insulin levels, fertility increases, and that is what you're hoping to find. You're hoping for increased fertility, so lowering insulin should be what you're focused on. On the flip side, there's the whole mastering diabetes mindset of actually eating low fat, high carb, also to lower your insulin levels. You just really have to decide. I think both are good at it, but you can't be there in the middle. Melanie and I've talked about that many times. In the middle is where it's murkier. If your goal is lowering insulin levels, you need to really commit to one or the other, if it's for this purpose of fertility with PCOS.

Back to Katie's question as well, who didn't say anything about being PCOS, should she do intermittent fasting while she's trying to get pregnant? Well, that depends. As long as you're not using intermittent fasting in an overly restrictive way, it's likely to not be a problem. Just like Melanie talked about a few minutes ago, when we were reading Ryan's question, women's hormones are more delicate in a state of over-restriction. You don't want to over-restrict while you're trying to get pregnant. But intermittent fasting is not necessarily overly restrictive. That's the whole-- I mean, I also wouldn't do the hCG diet, when I'm trying to get pregnant. I wouldn't do a very low-calorie diet when I was trying to get pregnant. You need to nourish your body well, but you can do that in the intermittent fasting paradigm, but you just have to be mindful of how you're nourishing your body.

Back to Michelle who said that she's been doing intermittent fasting for about a month and not losing weight and actually gaining weight, that's not abnormal. I talk about that in Fast. Feast. Repeat., that's why I want you to take that whole first month, as just the 28-Day FAST Start, you're nailing the clean fast, you're not even looking at the scale. Then after that you can start-- you're tweaking it for weight loss, if that's your goal. The foods are going to be even more important, if you're trying to think about getting pregnant. If your goal is fertility right now, maybe weight loss should not be your goal. Put that on the back burner and focus on nourishing your body and an eating window that feels good to you, getting insulin down. I think that's your best bet. Also, ready to quit the intermittent fasting as soon as you find out that you're pregnant. Back when I had the Facebook groups, we heard all the time from people who had trouble with fertility, started intermittent fasting, bam, then they were pregnant. Did I get to everything that she said?

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Well, I guess just to clarify, when you actually are pregnant--

Gin Stephens: Stop.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. That was a really fabulous answer.

Gin Stephens: Dr. Ganheart says that. She loves intermittent fasting, but she does not want you to do it when you are pregnant. Do it as part of healing the PCOS, then take a break until the baby is weaned, not just through the pregnancy, but all the way through the breastfeeding time too. Do you know why my number one reason for not recommending breastfeeding and intermittent fasting, Melanie, is not just about your milk flow and your supply, like some people think.

Melanie Avalon: Is it because toxins?

Gin Stephens: Yeah. We're in a different world now. Actually, I was having this conversation we were having with one of the moderators in the Delay, Don't Deny moderators, I'm not there anymore. I mean, it was a really good conversation. It wasn't like a bad conversation, or anybody was in trouble, or we were mad. No. It was just we were having a conversation behind the scenes about breastfeeding. One of the moderators said, “I can't think that it would actually be really a problem because women always were breastfeeding their babies in times of famine, and then they were able to.” I'm like, “Well, a lot of things are different now. First of all, not just because your baby is going to be fine. We want your baby to be optimal, not just fine.” That's one thing, but just having a milk supply is not the only thing because now we live in such a toxic world. This was reiterated when I was researching for Clean(ish). How many toxins are actually passed through breast milk to the babies? It's because we're just like in this whole chemical soup now. Even if you're trying really hard not to be, you are you, you can't help it. So, you've got toxins stored in your fat, even if you live a pretty clean life.

When you're breastfeeding, if you're losing fat, then you're going to be releasing those toxins from your fat stores. So, it's almost like you really don't want to be losing weight at all while you're pregnant or breastfeeding, because of the toxins. This is different. This is not like thousand years ago, when people were still able to grow a healthy baby even with all the crazy famines and whatever they were going through. We've got a different environment than they had.

Melanie Avalon: I was going to bring that up. Also, one of the biggest detox moments that a woman experiences is actually when she's pregnant, because the toxins actually go through the placenta, into the baby. That's why it's so, so important that those are the toxins are coming from processed food, our environment, and then that's why we always talk about our skincare and makeup because that is one of our largest sources of exposure. If you're using conventional skincare and makeup, you are literally putting on probably compounds straight into your body. These are endocrine disruptors, and there's been thousands of compounds that Europe has banned, they actually regulate it there. The US has banned around a dozen. You can pull it up on their website on the FDA. They list like 12 things.

Gin Stephens: It's true. When I was researching for Clean(ish), it really just made it so much more important than it ever had before. The understanding of why this is so important. I have a whole chart in Clean(ish) about all the things they found in the cord blood of the baby’s and in the breast milk. It's shocking. I don't want to scare people into being afraid to live because we have to live, but there's a lot going on.

Melanie Avalon: Well, that's why I love Beautycounter.

Gin Stephens: Me too.

Melanie Avalon: By the way, for women, because Beautycounter makes skincare that you need, they make sunscreen, they make shampoo and conditioner, which I love. They make makeup, their makeup’s amazing. Tina Fey actually wore it at the Golden Globes this past year. But they also make-- I don't think most people realize this, they have a line for kids. They have like a baby wash and diaper balm and all of that stuff.

Gin Stephens: And for men, they have a men’s line.

Melanie Avalon: By the time this comes out, this will have aired, but for Father's Day, my dad is getting a lot of Beautycounter. He's getting Beautycounter and Dry Farm Wines. I emailed Dry Farm Wines and asked if they could make me a-- because normally those wines are on the lighter side, like body wise, but he likes heavy cabs[?]. I asked if they can make me a box of like the heaviest cabs that they have. Fun fact, if you like Dry Farm Wines, you can email them and they will make you a special box for whatever you want. So, I did that for him. Then I did it for a friend who specifically likes wines from the Loire Valley. I was like, “Can you make me a box of wines from the Loire Valley?” So, fun times. Links, if you want any of that, a bottle for a penny of Dry Farm Wines, is at dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast, and then you can shop with us at Beautycounter at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter.

Gin Stephens: Awesome. Did you have anything you wanted to add?

Melanie Avalon: Her mom was talking about IF messing with your cycles. Gin talks about this. Yes, if IF is too restrictive, then it can create hormonal problems. The emphasis, and it's a slight change in words, is that her mom is cautioning her not to do IF because it messes with your cycle. The way to approach it would be, isn't messing with your cycle. If your cycles not changing, I don't think IF is sneakily changing your cycle behind the scenes, but it still appears normal, like you will know. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: Also, on the flip side of that, people often have cycle changes as their bodies are adjusting to IF and then things regulate. Just because you have a couple of months that are wonky, doesn't mean, “Uh-oh, I better quit.”

Melanie Avalon: Exactly.

Gin Stephens: It doesn't happen-- it's not that fast. If it does cause hormonal problems that's going to happen later, as you're going. If things start getting worse and worse and worse and worse, bad sign. But if things are weird for a while, then they improve, that's normal.

Melanie Avalon: Then, the last thing I wanted to touch on was, I think a lot of the fear surrounding fasting and fertility-- Well, Gin talked about this already that people equate fasting with over-restriction, which it can be. It can easily be, but it's not a synonym for it. The other thing though, and I've talked about this on prior episodes as well, but the majority of studies in fertility for females that are used to create this idea of it being an issue are in rodents. I just can't say this enough. So, rodents are reproducing on a much faster timeline. They have a shorter lifespan, they've a much shorter lifespan. I think it's like two years max. They're reproducing much more frequently, so they're much more sensitive to factors that would throw that off.

Gin Stephens: Stressors.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, they do “time-restricted eating” in a rat, where they're fasting for a day. That's days and days, if not weeks in a human a fasting. Those two factors together, the fact that the fasting studies in rats are the equivalent of very long, extended fasts, and they're more sensitive to fertility issues with fasting anyways, if you see a rodent study that says fasting creates hormonal problems and fertility, I don't think you can make those connections to humans at all. I actually just finished reading an entire book about female fertility and the female cycle and all of that. It was very, very informative. I learned so much. I didn't know about the different phases of the cycle, like the follicular and the luteal, and ovulatory. I didn't know how hormones changed, and I learned so much. I'm probably going to do an episode with that author about that book. But the author does talk about fasting and its effects on fertility and makes the case that fasting is very detrimental for fertility. If there were an author to make this case-- if there were studies that really showed this, I think the author would have found those studies and put them in, but there really weren't any studies listed that to me, seem to make that case.

There was a rodent study, there were some studies that showed hormonal changes, but overall, it was more nuanced and complex than fasting is bad for your hormones or something like that. The reason I say that is I think a lot of people have this idea that fasting is a negative thing for fertility, but when you actually sit down and look at the literature, I don't see it anywhere. I'm looking for it. I see in the rodent studies, but I don't think they're applicable, and then on the flip side, I think we have so much-- just like Gin was talking about with-- what was the doctor?

Gin Stephens: Dr. Cecily Ganheart. She actively uses it as a strategy to help her patients that are having trouble with fertility.

Melanie Avalon: Right, exactly. I think the issue is just that fasting, and I said it already, but it can-- Oh, especially for a lot of women very easily become too restrictive, but it doesn't have to, and it can actually be really incredible and really healing and really supportive of fertility. So, it just depends on how you are doing the fasting.

Gin Stephens: And any diet could be a problem for women with fertility if they're overdoing the restriction.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Maybe we can do it next week. We actually had another question that's sort of related to this. But in any case, yeah, this has been absolutely wonderful. If you would like to submit your own questions for the podcast, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. Just fun fact, those are the ways to submit questions. People keep DMing me on Instagram, trying to submit questions and I'm like, “If you want it on the show, it's got to go through the email.” Speaking of, you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast, I am @melanieavalon, Gin is @ginstephens. The show notes for today's episode, which will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about, those will be at ifpodcast.com/episode219. Lastly, you can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. All right, well, anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye. Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Apr 18

Episode 209: Social Media Management, Easy Insulin Testing, Bile, The Gallbladder, Cholesterol, Long-Term IF, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 209 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

INSIDETRACKER: Get The Blood And DNA Tests You Need To Be Testing, Personalized Dietary Recommendations, An Online Portal To Analyze Your Bloodwork, Find Out Your True "Inner Age," And More! Listen To My Interview With The Founder Gil Blander At Melanieavalon.Com/Insidetracker! Go To insidetracker.com/melanie To Get 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Support Your Gut Health With A Patented, Proteolytic, Anti-Viral, Superstar Probiotic, P3OM! Go To p3om.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

JOOVV: Like intermittent fasting, red light therapy can benefit the body on so many levels! It literally works on the mitochondrial level to help your cells generate more energy! Red light can help you burn fat (including targeted fat burning and stubborn fat!), contour your body, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, produce collagen for epic skin, support muscle recovery, reduce joint pain and inflammation, combat fatigue, help you sleep better, improve mood, and so much more!! These devices are literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To Joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - INSIDETRACKER: Go To insidetracker.com/melanie To Get 30% Off All Tests Sitewide!

3:15 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order!

Delay, Don't Deny Social Network

Change Is In The Air

IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life

Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon 

Lumen Lovers: Biohack Your Carb And Fat Burning (With Melanie Avalon)

24:15 - BIOPTIMIZERS: Go To p3om.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save 10% Off Any Order!

26:35 - Listener Feedback: Sarah - Insulin Testing

33:40 - Listener Q&A: Catherine - Gallbladder and Fasting

Effects of fasting on the composition of gallbladder bile

50:05 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

54:05 - Listener Q&A: Celeste - Crashing When my Window Opens

58:05 - Listener Q&A: Amber - 15 hour fast?

1:01:45 - Listener Q&A: Jennifer - Long Term Intermittent Fasting

#1624 – Mark Sisson

TRANSCRIPT


Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 209 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I wanted to tell you about one of the most incredible resources for taking charge of your blood tests and lab work, ever. I am a huge fan of a company called InsideTracker. They are actually a David Sinclair-partnered company. What they do is they provide access to the blood tests that you need to be testing, as well as interpretations so that you can figure out what that all means. Basically, we often go to our doctor, we get blood tests, we test things, but is it what we need to be testing? What does it even mean? That's what InsideTracker is here for.

They've done extensive testing to figure out which blood markers can tell you the most about your actual health. These aren't necessarily all the tests that you might expect. They provide personalized interpretations of those results along with dietary and lifestyle recommendations so that you can truly take charge of your health. Their InnerAge, for example, analyzes your blood work to determine your true “inner age” and how to lower it. I did it recently and thankfully, my inner age was lower than my actual chronological age, but there were still some things that I could work on. So, InsideTracker has really helped me meet my goals in that way.

They've also got DNA testing, as well as one of my favorite things, which is their online portal. Guys, this online portal is a game changer. It includes your results from InsideTracker, but then you can upload all of your own data from any other blood results that you've had through your doctor, so helpful. You just go into the portal, you drop in your lab results, and then you have all their lab results all in one place. It's so easy to see how things have changed over time, and they interpret these lab results from other companies by their standards. It is so helpful. I cannot even describe how much I use this platform.

If you'd like to learn more about them, as well as all about bloodwork testing, definitely check out my interview I did with the founder, Gil Blander. That's at melanieavalon.com/insidetracker. InsideTracker also has an amazing offer just for my audience. It was 20%, I asked if it could be 30%, and they said yes. They are so amazing. If you go to melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker, you can use the coupon code, MELANIE30, to get 30% off sitewide. Yes, 30% off sitewide, melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker, with the coupon code, MELANIE30. That’s M-E-L-A-N-I-E 30, I'll put all of this information in the show notes.

One more thing before you jump in. Are you concerned about aging? Well, thankfully, fasting is super incredible for its anti-aging benefits. It activates genes in your body called sirtuins, which repair your body and help extend lifespan. Also, during the fast, your body can clean up a lot of harmful chemicals which may be taxing your detoxification systems. In fact, the reason people go gray is because their detox systems start producing a lot of hydrogen peroxide when dealing with toxins. Do you know where a lot of those chemicals come from? Your skincare and makeup. As it turns out, there are thousands of compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup that Europe has banned due to their toxic nature and the US has banned less than 10. When you put these on your skin every single day through your skincare makeup, you're adding to your body's burden and likely aging your skin faster.

Thankfully, you can easily clean up your skincare with a company called Beautycounter. They make incredible products that are extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can feel good about every single ingredient that you put on. They also have an amazing antiaging line called Countertime. Friends, this is a game-changer. It's full of active ingredients which nourish and support your skin, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, and support a beautiful glow. It also has a safe alternative to retinol, so you can get all of the anti-aging benefits of retinol without any of the toxic effects of retinol, because, yes, that stuff is toxic. Guys, put it away now.

You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. If you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. Also, definitely get on my clean beauty email list that's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away so many free things on that list. definitely check it out.

Lastly, if you anticipate making safe skincare a part of your future, just like Gin and I do? Definitely become a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for safe skincare. You get 10% back on all of your purchases, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that costs way more than the price of the membership. It's completely worth it. So, friends, are you fasting clean inside and out? You can with Beautycounter. Again, that link is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 209 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am fabulous, and got a lot going on.

Melanie Avalon: What do you have going on?

Gin Stephens: Well, you already know but I'm going to share it here for the first time. Although, gosh, this is coming out-- this is the April 19th episode, so we're three weeks ahead approximately, recording it three weeks before it comes out. By the time it comes out, a lot of listeners will already know this news, because I'm announcing it officially tomorrow. Tomorrow is March 29th in the real world, because we're three weeks in the past here recording, but I am officially leaving Facebook tomorrow, March 29th. It's also Cal's birthday, he will be 23. That's just a coincidence.

Melanie Avalon: Wow, that's big.

Gin Stephens: It is big. I didn't make this decision lightly. I know some people are going to wake up tomorrow and see my announcement and be like, “What has just happened?” I actually wrote a blog post about it, and it's going to drop overnight. For anybody who hasn't heard this news, or maybe you heard about it, but you didn't read my blog post yet, I want you to go to ginstephens.com. Go to the blog post area, and it's called Change is in the Air, unless I decided to call it something else between now and tomorrow when it goes live, but right now, it's Change is in the Air. I really poured my heart into that blog post. I'm going to try not to cry. Gosh, I feel so emotional about this. I feel the tears like welling up and so I'm going to take a deep breath and try to not get emotional. I've reflected on all the time-- I've been on Facebook since 2008. Do you remember when you joined?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I think we talked about this. Yep. It was around 2008 for me as well.

Gin Stephens: Okay. Well, just like everybody else, I used it as a casual user, but then in 2015, when I started my first group, my usage really changed. What's that they say on top of really long things? Too long didn't read, TLDR, you know what I'm talking about? TLDR, that little abbreviation.

Melanie Avalon: I know that abbreviation, I don't know what it means.

Gin Stephens: It means too long, didn't read or something like that. It's basically a one-sentence summary. Basically, I realized-- really not just recently, but over the past few years, I've realized that I haven't been fully present in my life, because of Facebook. It's been like this huge Catch-22. I love the work I've done on Facebook since 2015 with my intermittent fasting communities, I love it so much. I love supporting members and helping them and providing a safe place for them to get together and form a community. Yet, 16 hours of my day, all the time of the day when I'm not asleep, it's in my mind. Like it never sleeps. Facebook never sleeps, even if I'm sleeping, Facebook isn't sleeping. The pressure to be there and be in the groups and respond to everybody and the pending posts, it's heavy.

I've known for years, like I said, that I couldn't do this for the rest of my life. I could not spend 16 hours a day every day on Facebook. In the past year, I've started a third podcast and I'm working on a new book. I also want to have some time to talk to my husband or whatever else I want to do. I just realized that Facebook's got to go for my own mental well-being. Anyway, I encourage people to go find that blog post and read it all the way through because Facebook has just been such a part of my identity. It's what I do. It's how I spend all my time. For the past week, knowing that this is coming, I've been purposely trying to put my phone down, and my brain is looking for it. Does that sound crazy?

Melanie Avalon: No, not at all.

Gin Stephens: Like, “I’ve got to look, got to see, got to check, are there pending posts?” I'm like, “No, stop. Stop. Stop doing that.” Here's the part, that's the hardest and the part that has literally kept me up at night. I have not slept well-- I wasn't sure what I was going to do even a couple weeks ago. I started the Delay, Don't Deny Social Network. That was multifaceted, part of it was, of course, because as I've already shared, I was concerned about trusting my entire platform to Facebook, everything I've built. But then, I started thinking, “Do I really need to be on Facebook 16 hours a day?” This whole multifaceted, moving off of Facebook to a new platform that's just us, taking control of the platform. But also, it's not a place where I need to be from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to bed, so I'm going to be able to check in periodically. Like first thing in the morning after I get my coffee, I can spend some time there. Then later in the day, maybe I can go there again, but not feeling like I have to go every 10 minutes. It's almost like I feel like I'm withdrawing from a drug, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, no. It sounds like that combined with moving.

Gin Stephens: Maybe I also want to say the hardest part of this, I started to say and then I got sidetracked, is the groups. I've had these groups, the Advanced group and the One Meal A Day group are the groups where I started, the One Meal A Day group started in 2015. It's where I met you.

Melanie Avalon: I know.

Gin Stephens: We have a whole community there. There's certain people that are well loved in that community. The Advanced group, that group’s about 30,000 members, and everyone there has read at least one of my books and so that they are my people, and I love them. But I don't think that anyone realizes how much of my life that it takes to run them. I just don't think they do. Maybe they do, but maybe they don't. But it's not something I can turn over to moderators and say, “All right, run the Advanced group, run the One Meal A Day group.” It's just too much. I mean, I can't ask volunteers to spend 16 hours a day managing these groups.

Melanie Avalon: How does it look different, the management and all of that?

Gin Stephens: Going forward? Well, I am actually archiving the Advanced group and the One Meal A Day group. What archiving means is, I click a button, and from that point going forward, nobody is able to post or comment or put a mad face on the fact that I just archived the group or cry face with the-- people are going to be sad, I get it. No one can respond or comment or do anything, but the content is still there, which is so important to me. You can still go in and search your question. You've got a question about anything, you put it in the search bar, and old posts will come up, and you'll be able to read. There's still a huge resource of information. You can find success stories there. It's just it freezes it in time. You want to see what people ate for dinner three months ago? It's still going to be there in the One Meal A Day group. We just aren't going to be adding any new content. That's the hardest part. That's the part that's kept me up at night, is how do I--

You know the song, Hotel California? “You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.” That is how I have felt about Facebook. I've built this huge thing, and now I am trapped by it. I'm trapped and consumed, and it's a good thing, but anything good can just be also too much. Does that make sense? [sighs] I hope that people hear what I'm saying about it and how hard this decision was for me. But the main group, the Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting support group, that group has over 300,000 members and we're not closing that one down. The moderators are going to continue to manage that one. We changed the way that group was managed in the summer of 2020 when it got really clear that we couldn't manage 300,000 people. We were having over 1000 posts a day. Did I ever tell the story about how I started crying when I was trying to make dinner?

Melanie Avalon: I think so.

Gin Stephens: I don't know if I told you on the podcast or just to you. There was one night over the summer or spring, maybe just over a year ago from today, when I was trying to make dinner, Chad said, “Is it time for dinner?” I'm like, “Yeah, I'll make dinner as soon as I can get these pending posts under control.” When I started, I don't remember the exact number. Let's say it was 32. I don't know, that's just-- 32 pending posts. When you had the pending posts, you had to go in and you had to approve them and then you had to make a comment on them. Sometimes though, you didn't need to approve them, like if they were, “Can I have lemon in my water?” If we approved every one of those, that's all the feed would have been. We would actually give personalized responses to those. We would decline them, but we would decline with feedback. We would say, “Sorry, lemon is not part of a clean fast. Please go check out blah, blah, blah resource,” but it took a lot of time for each post. We didn't just decline randomly. We gave feedback to everyone personally or we would add comments, we spend a lot of time on those posts.

I started, we had, let's just say, like I said, 32. I worked for about 20 minutes. At the end of that 20 minutes, we had more posts than when I had started, we were up to like 35. I just burst into tears and said to Chad, I said, “I can't keep this up.” It's like trying to throw the ocean back in, whereas the waves keep coming in, the tide is rising. I could not get the number of pending posts to zero so I could go cook dinner.

Melanie Avalon: Reminds me of, what's that computer game with blocks fall and you--?

Gin Stephens: Tetris?

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Gin Stephens: It was very much like Tetris. In June, we changed the way that group worked, and it made such a difference. We still provide support there in the daily Ask a Moderator thread. Instead of having thousand separate posts a day, people just come and they ask a question, “Can I have lemon in in my water?” And we can answer it. We are still providing support to people through that community. I told the moderators, I said, “As long as this provides you with joy and you love it, we will keep this group running indefinitely.” They pop in, they don't go every 10 minutes like me. They pop in, they answer the questions in between their lives when they have time. We also have the Delay Don’t Deny social network. As I said, I am going to be there but not every 10 minutes. I'm in the 28 Day FAST Start group where people who are new to intermittent fasting, and that's my love is supporting people when they're getting started, so they can come in and ask questions, I'll answer them all. The Ask Gin group, people can ask me questions there. I'm really enjoying the personal interactions but without feeling like I'm playing Tetris or trying to manage something that's unmanageable.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Well, my heart's racing just talking about it. Will I sleep tonight? I don't know. Everybody, please just understand why I'm making these changes in my life. One day, I'm going to have grandkids and I'm not going to be that grandma who's like, “Okay, now it's time for me to look at Facebook again for the--” I'm so grateful for all the years on Facebook and all of the people I've connected with, and the Delay Don’t Deny Social Network is going to be smaller. We have half a million combined members in the Facebook groups, half a million combined members.

Melanie Avalon: It's insane.

Gin Stephens: It's insane. I can't personally mentor half a million people as hard as I try and as much as I want to. Because the groups are so connected with me, I can't just walk away and leave them to go wild. Does that make sense? People don't realize how much careful moderation goes on behind the scenes to make sure they're a positive and supportive community. I can't just walk away and stop doing that. It can't keep going the way it was. Anyway, it's a big turning point. I hope that people understand from my heart, why I'm making these decisions. If they want to join us on the DDD Social Network, we'd love to have them, don't feel pressured like you have to. But that's where I'll be, but just not 16 hours a day. [laughs] I will answer your question within 24 hours, probably even sooner. [sighs]

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm excited for you. Tomorrow is a new dawn.

Gin Stephens: It is. I'm going to also not look at Messenger because I can just imagine. Some people aren't going to be happy with me.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I anticipate that happening.

Gin Stephens: I just don't know how much support am I expected to provide for the rest of my life. 16 hours a day, I just can't. I can't physically and emotionally do it.

Melanie Avalon: Well, for listeners, the show notes for this episode will be at ifpodcast.com/209. We will put links to Gin’s blog post, so you can read that. We'll put links to her new social network.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, Delay Don’t Deny, dddsocialnetwork.com.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, so you can join there.

Gin Stephens: We have almost 3000 members there already. I don't want it to have half a million members. Maybe it will, I don't know, but they could just ask me questions in Ask Gin and 28 Day FAST Star and I could just focus on supporting those beginners and [laughs] answering those questions.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Then I will clarify, I still have my Facebook groups, so you can still join my Facebook groups.

Gin Stephens: You can even still join mine. I just won't be there. The Delay Don’t Deny Intermittent Fasting Support Group. You can ask the mods in the daily Ask a Moderator thread, but you cannot ask Gin.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. There's that one.

Gin Stephens: There's another place for asking Gin, yes.

Melanie Avalon: There's that one, you still have the one for your other podcast?

Gin Stephens: We still have that group, but Sheri’s going to manage it. I am taking Facebook off of my phone, I am not going to be checking in. It is not a place I'm going to be. I'm going to be more present in my life. Like I said, I'm going to be intentional about the time that I spend on the Delay Don’t Deny Social Network. I'm going to go there, and I'm going to answer the questions that are for me. I'm going to look around and spread cheer throughout the live feed and see what's going on. But because it doesn't have pending posts, nothing to be accepted, people are just there posting and living and doing. It doesn't require the degree of time for me on the admin side, if that makes sense.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, 100%.

Gin Stephens: Also, we've never had a reported post yet. We have those all the time on Facebook. We did have one reported post, I'm going to take that back. I made a joke about something and people didn't understand it was a joke. Once they understood it was a joke, no one reported it anymore.

Melanie Avalon: I think I mentioned this last time, or probably not because I don't know if we talked. No, we talked about a little bit.

Gin Stephens: We were off air, maybe.

Melanie Avalon: My groups are still at a nice place where we don't really have issues.

Gin Stephens: How many people?

Melanie Avalon: The main one is IF Biohackers and we almost have 9000.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's a good number. That's about how many we have in the Life Lessons Podcast group.

Melanie Avalon: I hope it stays this way. Everybody is just so kind and understanding and we just have very little drama, and you can talk about anything, biohacking, anything, diet, health, fitness lifestyle, there's so many random questions. I'm waiting for it to get--

Gin Stephens: A little more dramatic?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, but it's really, really great. The other day somebody posted and they said how they were a little bit overwhelmed, because they don't understand what all the different acronyms for different things mean. They just feel like they can't understand anything. Then, it got 20 comments, and everybody was like, everybody's so nice, they were like, “Just ask and we'll tell you.”

Gin Stephens: I don't want to give the impression that the Advanced group is a hotbed of horribleness. It's not, it's an amazing group. 99.9% of the interactions that go on in there are amazing, and people are helpful, and people are supportive. I love being there. It's really more of the difficult situations occurred in the regular group before we changed the post process to have you to Ask a Mod, that was where we had put out a lot of fires. The One Meal A Day group still sometimes goes a little rogue here and there, as much as we love them. We do sometimes people will pop up that have been there since 2016, and they're like something wacky will pop out. We're like, “Where did you come from?” [laughs] They don't know anything about us. They just have been there, maybe not coming and something weird will happen. The Advanced group has been amazing, and I love them, which is why it is so hard to make this decision. That's why I lost the sleep over it because I both don't want to close the group down and archive it, but yet desperately need to for my mental health. That's the Catch-22 and that's why it felt like the Hotel California.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that makes sense. The other two groups I have because I have a Lumen, Biosense, CGM group, but I have really great moderators in there, they mostly run that one. Then, I have the Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare, which is still my little boutique group, so we're almost at 1000 members, but it's been great. Well, so for listeners, again, the show notes, we'll put links to everything, and I'm excited to see how things go. I'm excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Well, I just really hope people are not just so mad at me and like, “Now, I hate you forever, Gin.” “Gin, you're terrible. You're a bad person.” Please don't think that.

Melanie Avalon: Haters going to hate. There's a lot of really wonderful people, so we can focus on that.

Gin Stephens: Let's do. I've just loved this time, but it has been so much of my time.

Hi friends, Gin and I talk about the importance of gut health all the time on this show. You guys know, we are obsessed with the gut microbiome. There's also a lot of confusion out there surrounding probiotics. There are so many different probiotics, it can be so hard to know what to take. I personally have actually experimented with a lot of probiotics over the years. A lot, you guys know me. Did you know there's only one probiotic that I have consistently taken almost every single day, since I found it, it's a non-negotiable. I see such radical improvements in my gut health, when I take this probiotic. And it's not just me, you guys, and my audience tell me all the time about how you feel this way as well. That is P3-OM. What is P3-OM? It's a patented probiotic that actually eats up excess sugar, eliminates bad bacteria fast, and protects your gut from inflammation and viruses. What initially made me so intrigued by this probiotic is that it is proteolytic meaning it can actually digest protein. I even saw a video on the BiOptimizers website of the probiotic digesting a steak. Yes, a steak.

P3-OM has also been shown to improve digestion, speed up metabolism, and increase energy throughout the day. What also makes it unique is that it can survive the gastrointestinal tract, and it goes through your whole body to support both your gut and your entire immune response. It's a secret weapon for reducing or eliminating bad gas, and upgrading your immunity and protection against bad bacteria. It's personally one of my go-to tools in my biohacking arsenal. I have some fantastic news for you guys. You can get 10% off P3-OM right now when you go to p3om.com/ifpodcast and type in the coupon code, IFPODCAST10. By the way, if you order it and it's not everything you hoped for, the BiOptimizers support team will give you all your money back, no questions asked. To get that discount, just go to p3om.com/ifpodcast to get a 10% discount on one of my favorite probiotics, P3-OM, with the coupon code, IFPODCAST10, and we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes, let's get started.

Melanie Avalon: To start things off, we have some feedback. This comes from Sarah. The subject is “Insulin Testing.” Sarah says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. I just got my fasting insulin tested for the first time and I wanted to share with your other listeners how to do it easily and quickly. It's something I've wanted to do for a long time, but didn't want to go to the doctor and do the whole bloodwork panel and have to potentially argue with my doctor about why I wanted fasting insulin, etc.” Can I pop in something really quick, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Yes. I actually saw the doctor on Friday, I think, for just an annual checkup. The nurse that I was with, she was so receptive to testing everything that I wanted to test, so I got fasted insulin. When I went to test it, I went in right before the close to like 5 to Quest or LabCorp or one of those places. She was like, “Are you fasting?” I was like, “Yes.” She was like, “Are you sure you're fasting?” I was like, “Yes.” She was like, “It's really late.” I was like, “I know.”

Melanie Avalon: “Let me tell you what my job is. I have a podcast called The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, so guess what?”

Gin Stephens: I said, “Well, I practice intermittent fasting as a lifestyle”. She goes, “What?” I go, “Never mind.” Good times, but then they told me that I don't know why-- they said the fasting insulin won't be accurate at that time. I don't know. In any case, moving back to the question to Sarah's feedback. She says, “A long time ago, Gin mentioned on the podcast that one of her friends was using Walk-in Labs, that's exactly what I did. I went to walkinlabs.com and I bought just the fasting insulin test. It was $25 from Quest Diagnostics and $40 from LabCorp. Then I just found a location near me, walked in, got my test, and the next day got my results, it was super-duper easy and quick. On a more unfortunate note, my fasting insulin is 13.8. Yikes. I've been intermittent fasting and an average of 19 to 20 hours daily for almost four years, but my blood sugars are a little high in the 90s, low 100s. I recently gained 20 pounds and have so far been unable to lose it. I'm going to do my best to go low carb for a while and see what happens.

I reintroduced meat into my diet four months ago after realizing I've been getting only about 20 to 50 grams of protein a day for the past three years, but I kept my other higher carb habits and I think those didn't mesh well with a new higher protein/fat intake. The experiment continues. Very glad to finally have a fasting insulin measurement that I can track. Thanks for continuing to share your knowledge and wisdom on the pod.” All righty. Do you have feedback about this, Gin?

Gin Stephens: Well, yeah, 13.8 is high, although I'm not sure, it might fall into the “normal range,” how they say, “That's normal,” but it's really very far from optimum. That's what 13.8 would be. You want it to be down closer to 5 or 6.

Melanie Avalon: The standard reference range, they say less than 25. I think in Dr. Benjamin Bikman’s book, he recommends less than 6, I think.

Gin Stephens: Yes, that's exactly right.

Melanie Avalon: Ideally, even I think, like 4 or less.

Gin Stephens: Mine's less than 5. The day that I got mine done, I had coffee and I shouldn't have, and I would didn't even pay attention to what I was doing. I was like, “Oh gosh, why did I just drink that coffee?” So, mine could actually normally be lower in the fasted state. Coffee, of course, causes your liver to dump out glycogen. When you have increased blood glucose, you may have some insulin go up to manage that. If I ever do it again, I'm going to do it with zero black coffee, I’d be interested to see. As far as, Sarah, your numbers go, even with all of those years of intermittent fasting, you're right to focus on diet. We've talked before about Mastering Diabetes, that's a different paradigm, so you could try it this way for a while with the lower carb approach. If you don't find that improves it, you may want to try the Mastering Diabetes 180 way of managing it because either they are finding a lot of success with this as well. Theirs is a low-fat higher carb approach.

Melanie Avalon: It sounds like she really upped her protein and fat, like she says, but she kept in all of her carbs as well. Right now, she's basically high carb, high fat, high protein, which I think that combination works for not that many people for metabolic health, basically having all high of all of the macros.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's certainly not going to help correct a problem. It works really well for me as far as the way that I eat day to day. I'm certainly very healthy. But I'm not trying to lower my insulin, I'm not trying to lower my fat, does that make sense? I'm at a great place. But if you know you've got something to work on-- if I knew I needed to lose some weight, I would do some changes to that.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm happy that she said she brought back meat and was trying to upper protein because she realized she was low in protein. Focusing on raising protein, in my opinion and from a lot of the people I've interviewed and research that I've done, is going to have the most probably beneficial metabolic effects as far as satiety and muscle maintenance and not being a fuel substrate that encourages a state of energy toxicity like Marty Kendall talks about. But then, next to the protein, you basically have two options between the fat and the carbs and gravitating to one or the other can work wonders for a lot of people for getting to a place of better metabolic health. Since she wants to try low carb and she hasn't really tried it yet, I definitely encourage that. Try that, see how it goes. Then if it doesn't work, you can try the flip side and try the high carb, low fat, lower fat but high protein approach. I think there's a lot of potential here in making changes.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I think so too.

Melanie Avalon: That's really great to know about how easy it was for her to get the fasting insulin test.

Gin Stephens: I know. I love that part too. I think that is going to really help other people. Then, people can get the test and then see when you know, then you can address that. Because she said that she had recently gained 20 pounds and hasn't been able to lose it, so this high fasting insulin level can certainly help explain some of that. We hear all sorts of things from people. They'll be like, “I was unable to lose weight, no matter what I did. Then I found out I had blah, blah, blah.” You could fill in the blank. Anything from breast cancer, we've heard people say, “I couldn't lose any weight, then I found out I had breast cancer, and then we addressed that.” Our bodies are doing other things that we don't always know about, high fasted insulin level, you could have so many things going on behind the scenes. The inability to lose weight is a signal that there's something else wrong.

Melanie Avalon: All right, shall we jump into some questions?

Gin Stephens: Yes. All right. We have a question from Katherine and the subject is “Gallbladder and Fasting.” “Hi, Melanie and Gin. Hello from Australia.” I feel like we should read these in an accent. Although I can't. I can't.

Melanie Avalon: Go for it. [laughs] Go for it.

Gin Stephens: I don't know why but whenever I try to have a foreign accent, it sounds like I'm in Jamaica.

Melanie Avalon: That's where you end up.

Gin Stephens: I can only do a Jamaican accent apparently, like, “Hello, Maan.” I don't know. That's all I can do. I cannot do an Australian accent or an English accent, or an Irish accent. I'll just read it like myself. She says, “Firstly, thank you so much for all the work you both do in helping the rest of us learn about fasting and help. I've been fasting for about 18 months, now mostly around 18:6, but sometimes less and sometimes more. Have plateaued in the past six months, but I recognize I probably need to tweak the old eating patterns. My current issue is that I have gallstones diagnosed some time ago. Issue started several years ago. I just turned 60, so I'm unfortunately right in the age bracket where old gally can start playing up. This has been happening to me lately. I've been reading up about this and there seems to be some research suggesting fasting is not great for the gallbladder. That makes me very sad as no way do I want to give up the fasting, as I usually feel a lot better than I used to. Less general inflammation, more energy, and of course that initial weight loss which I've managed to maintain even throughout COVID lockdown. I'd also like to shed at least another 5 to 10 kilos in order to get back into my healthy weight range. My question is, what are your thoughts about fasting and the gallbladder? Be interesting to hear your take on this issue and to know if others with gallbladder issues have success or issues with fasting. Is there perhaps a threshold of fasting duration where the gallbladder may be more severely impacted? Whilst I'd like to increase my fasting time to help get the weight loss moving again, I don't want to ever do it an upset old gally.” I love that. That makes me smile. The gallbladder, old gally or golly, maybe it's old golly. “Be keen to hear your thoughts. Thanks for reading. Cheers, Kath, from Victoria, Australia. “

Melanie Avalon: All right. Kath, thank you so much for your question. This idea has been popularized by Dr. Valter Longo at the University of Southern California, fight on. Which by the way, I don't think I told you, Gin. Did I tell you he's coming on my show?

Gin Stephens: I'm not sure if you did. You got so many people coming on the show. I can't keep track. I'm not surprised.

Melanie Avalon: Well, I've been emailing his assistant, he's a little bit harder to lock down, but we've been emailing and talking about what he wants to talk about. In any case, Gin and I actually interviewed him.

Gin Stephens: A long time ago, 2017?

Melanie Avalon: Maybe ‘18, was it? I don't know, it was a while ago. It was when his first book came out, or his only book, it's when his book came out. In any case, he is the creator of the fasting mimicking diet. He does a lot of research in fasting mimicking diets and fasting in humans, and is considered one of the go-to authorities on fasting, just as far as from a research perspective. He is very vocal, at least last time I checked, about intermittent fasting’s potentially negative role on the gallbladder and encouraging gallstones. I'm definitely going to ask him about this when I interview him, for sure. I was shocked. I thought this would be way easier to find research on than it was. I was like, “Oh, I'm going to go to Google Scholar, I'm going to find all these fasting studies about the gallbladder and there will be an answer.” I found very little information. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Can I just summarize it? There's two things that I know are true about the gallbladder and fasting.

Melanie Avalon: Sure.

Gin Stephens: These are two risk factors. Let me rephrase it. There are two risk factors for having gallbladder trouble.

Melanie Avalon: Low-fat diet?

Gin Stephens: If you were overweight, or if you lose that weight. Those are two, there are more, but two risk factors are being overweight and losing the weight, no matter how you lose it.

Melanie Avalon: That's really interesting.

Gin Stephens: You're like darned if you do and darned if you don’t. Everything I've read, if you're overweight, you're more likely to have gallbladder trouble. If you're actively losing weight, you're more likely to have gallbladder trouble, so you cannot win when it comes to the gallbladder. That's my research in a nutshell, or never have gained it to start with, but you can't go back in time and not have gained it.

Melanie Avalon: It's really interesting, because the whole idea of gallstones, I feel they come up in so many different books and authorities and researchers I talked to, and depending on who you're talking to, they'll say the cause of the gallstone is a different thing. When I interviewed Richard Jacoby recently, it was sugar. When I interviewed Susan Owens, it was-- or Sally Norton, one of them. They both work with oxalates. It was oxalates. I interviewed Dr. Campbell-McBride for the GAPS diet, she thinks it's related to, I don't even remember, bacteria. There's all these different thoughts about what it might be. In any case, what we do know, I think what most people agree on is that bile is responsible for flushing things through the gallbladder. Now, I'm going on tangents, I feel, but a lot of people on the low fat diet say to avoid fat because it will clog up the gallbladder or lead to gall stones. On the flip side, it's very possible that if you're on a very low-fat diet, then you're not flushing through and so you're more likely to get stones actually.

In any case, coming back to fasting. I was able to find like one study from 1980 but it was very, very interesting. It actually both supported exactly what Valter Longo says, and it completely went against it. I think he recommends not fasting more-- is it more than 15 hours, I think, that he says?

Gin Stephens: Well, he always says 12.

Melanie Avalon: 12, okay. Well, that works too. That works too for this study.

Gin Stephens: Which is-- Okay, never mind, don't get me started. I'm biting my tongue.

Melanie Avalon: Okay, so that actually works. Are you ready? This study is called Effects of fasting on the composition of gallbladder bile, and it was talking about the level of cholesterol that is dumped from the liver into bile depending on fasting with the idea being that higher cholesterol dumped into the bile is more likely to cause gallstones. Okay, they tested patients fasting at 10 hours fasted, 15 hours fasted and 20 hours fasted. Do you want to guess what they found?

Gin Stephens: No. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: 10 hours fasted, it was a certain number and it was very consistent between all the patients. 15 hours fasted, there was more cholesterol. The bile was more likely to be a risk factor for gallstones. But at 20 hours fasted, they had gone down. It seems that around 15 hours, it seems there might be a transitory increase in cholesterol and bile into the gallbladder up until around somewhere around 15, 16 hours. Then after that, it actually starts going down, which is fascinating because Valter Longo says, okay, maybe it's 12 hours, don't fast more. This is all me just going on one study from 1980, so keep that in mind. Just from that information, it seems if you fast just a little bit, you might get-- and by a little bit, between 12 and 15 hours, you might get a transitory dump of cholesterol into your gallbladder. If you fast a little bit longer, closer to a one meal a day situation, potentially a 16:8, I don't know, they didn't test 16 hours. I don't know exactly when it started going down. It sounds like if you're fasting the way a lot of our listeners probably are, you actually might have less of a chance of gallstones with that fasting window. I thought that was fascinating. Again, 1980, but--

Gin Stephens: I thought I was biting my tongue, I'm going to unloosen it a little bit. I unbit it. He changed his tune after his fasting mimicking diet came out. Before that, I heard him on a podcast talking about how he does his intermittent fasting, and then he changed what he was recommending. You were unable to find strong support of no one should fast beyond 12 hours a day or your gallbladder is going to explode or something. There was no good science for that, right?

Melanie Avalon: The purpose of that study, they did mention that, I guess, the research prior to that was contradictory and that shorter fasting did seem to increase the risk of gallstones, but longer fasting didn't. So, they were positing that it's actually because there's this transitory curve.

Gin Stephens: What I'm saying is you didn't find this wealth of information that was solidly pointed to this is a problem.

Melanie Avalon: I think there was one saying that women who skipped breakfast are more likely to have gallstones.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's the weight loss tie, and I would bet.

Melanie Avalon: To answer your question, I thought, because he's so vocal about it, I was like, “Oh.” I was like, there's going to be research, he's going to have published studies about it.” There's just going to be information, but there's not a lot. There's not much.

Gin Stephens: A lot of it is correlational, like you said, and that is the part, that's when I got a little upset with what he was talking about. He started talking about-- It was right when his book came out, maybe or right after that, or at some point, he started making the podcast circuit and telling people on the podcast circuit not to fast beyond 12 hours, which was shocking. Everybody's like, “Gosh, Valter Longo is telling people not fast after more than 12 hours,” but you can buy his fasting mimicking protocol, which is way better than actual fasting because fasting is dangerous. Then he started talking about all these the study and skipping breakfast led to heart attacks. I went and looked up that study that he cited, that is not what that study said at all. I lost a lot of respect that day, because he as a hard researcher understands what studies do and don't tell us. You don't go around saying skipping breakfast causes heart attacks based on a correlational study of people who are unhealthy and skipping breakfast. You know what I mean, Melanie. That made me like, “Okay.” He's scaring people off about doing intermittent fasting and using really poor evidence to do it. Instead say, “You know what, I've developed the fasting mimicking diet. I think it's amazing. Let me tell you why,” but don't knock intermittent fasting with poor evidence.

Melanie Avalon: I do still, all that aside--

Gin Stephens: You respect him.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I do really respect him. All of that aside, he's done a lot of really great research and studies. So, I am really excited to talk to him but I definitely am going-- these are the things I'm going to talk to him about. Normally, when I book the guests, they don't really communicate with me much beforehand about what they want to talk about, but his assistant has been very vocal about what he wants to talk about specifically. I'm really interested to see what we talk about, and I'm going to talk about this.

Gin Stephens: Can I tell you something that's kind of funny? I don't know if I should say this out loud.

Melanie Avalon: Say it, and then I'll let you know.

Gin Stephens: Let me know if I should. They actually approached me for him to be on Intermittent Fasting Stories within the past year.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?

Gin Stephens: Yes. I replied and said, “I'm sorry. I've heard him on a lot of podcasts recommending against intermittent fasting, so I'm not really sure we'd like we would like to hear his intermittent fasting story.”

Melanie Avalon: Oh, you said that? What did they say back?

Gin Stephens: I don't think they replied. I turned them down for Intermittent Fasting Stories, because it didn't seem like a good fit. Anyway, was it okay to say that out loud?

Melanie Avalon: I think it's okay. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I will say one other thing, Melanie. We've had a half a million people in the intermittent fasting communities, on Facebook, and if fasting-- these are the things I know that will happen. You're very likely to have an increase in your overall cholesterol levels after you begin fasting. That is true.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. That's something people don't talk about enough, I don't think.

Gin Stephens: My point is that these are the things that we know because they come up over and over and over. Guess what does not come up over and over and over?

Melanie Avalon: Gallstones.

Gin Stephens: Gallstones. I think it comes up every now and then. I would tend to think the rarity at which it comes up actually is lower than the prevalence of gallstones in the general population. Does that make sense? There's a high level of gallbladder issues in the general population, especially among the target group of people that are in my Facebook groups. We have mostly women over 40, 50 in that age group, we're a very large group of people in that age range that often have the gallbladder issues. If fasting made gallbladder issues worse, I would think that we would be overrun with posts about it. Instead, the number of posts we get are few and far between and seem like a smaller percentage of the population than would be in any normal population of people. Does that make sense?

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: They do pop up from time to time just like here with Kath’s story, but they happen in the regular population. I feel like if fasting led to really increased gallbladder problems, we would see a lot more of it.

Melanie Avalon: The vague general idea is twofold because I realized I was focusing on the liver dumping cholesterol into the bile while fasting. But I think the main idea that's posited is that your gallbladder is becoming stagnant while fasting, and so things are accumulating in creating the stones. Literally, I was trying to find information, I couldn't find information, because I was trying to find if Valter had studies, but I couldn't find anything. But now whenever I think of old content on the internet, I'm going to think of your Facebook group, but I found this old Twitter thread.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's so sad.

Melanie Avalon: [laughs] I found an old Twitter thread for Peter Attia and all his people. They're asking him what he thought about this, and he was just like, “No.” [laughs] He's like, “I haven't seen any evidence really to support this.”

Gin Stephens: We haven't. Like I said with the cholesterol, every day, there was someone saying, “I just had my bloodwork done, and my cholesterol is up.” We know that that is common because we see it, or like, “I just started fasting and my cycle’s a little wacky.” We see that all the time. We know what is very, very common. We are not a study, but we are very much an anecdotal group of evidence. We’ve got a lot of info.

Melanie Avalon: I will make a suggestion though for Kath and that is if you are struggling with gallstones-- it's controversial because, like I said in the beginning, a lot of people will say, “Oh, you need to avoid fat to avoid gallstones.” I personally think keeping at least like a small amount of fat in your diet to keep the gallbladder flushing can be pretty important. If you're doing a low-fat diet-- I don't know what type of diet she's eating but if you're doing a low-fat diet, I think that's often a risk factor for gallstones in people.

Gin Stephens: Everybody hears that we got a storm, there been some really bad storms around the southeast, and they just finally hit Augusta.

Melanie Avalon: It's weird, the area I'm in, I'm in Atlanta, but just the city I'm in for some reason, I don't know if it's the elevation, we rarely get the actual storms, like my little area. It's very strange.

Gin Stephens: Where we are near the river, the weather tends to follow a certain like path in the river. The shape of the land really does influence the weather a lot.

Melanie Avalon: Majorly. I grew up in Memphis, though. Oh, my goodness, talk about thunderstorms. We got a ton. I miss those.

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Shall we answer one more question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. story about this question. We've actually answered this question before, but whatever episode it was originally cuts off, and somewhere along the line and the many, many times we have changed hosts, we lost that original episode. People have asked us so many times, what was our answer to this question? Our assistant actually was like, maybe you should just answer it again.

Gin Stephens: That's so funny. What episode was that?

Melanie Avalon: I don't even know.

Gin Stephens: I didn't realize that's what happened to it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, the episode cuts off in half or something.

Gin Stephens: Okay. They’d be like, “What?”

Melanie Avalon: We get questions a lot about what our answer was, and we're like, “We don't know, we don't remember.” Our assistant, Sharon, was like, “Maybe you should just re-answer it.”

Gin Stephens: As if it's brand new because we might say new things.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. She's like, and then I can just tell them to check out this episode, so that's what we're doing right now. The original email was from Celeste and the subject was “Crashing when my window opens.” Celeste said, “I'm very new to IF. I've been doing 18:6 for about a week and listening to your podcast in the mornings as I get ready for the day. I typically open the window at noon for lunch and then eat dinner before 6 PM. I'm not eating terribly, I don't think. For lunches, I have something left over from the night before, like broccoli, chicken, ground turkey, taco, salad, or brown rice with a chicken something. However, about 30 minutes to an hour after eating, I feel like I just downed a pizza and a large ice cream and I feel a complete crash. Is this something that will improve with time or am I eating the wrong things? I keep hearing Gin say no foods are off limits. So, I'm not sure why I'm feeling my great morning energy disappear after eating.”

Gin Stephens: Celeste, first of all, I want to say you're very new to IF and feelings like this are a lot more pronounced in the beginning. During the adjustment phase, you're going to feel all sorts of wacky ups and downs with your energy levels both during the fast and after you eat. Your body is learning how to do a new thing. You're not metabolically flexible, you're probably not tapping into your fat stores very well during the fast, and your body is not great at shifting back and forth between fuel sources, the fed state, the fasted state. That's when you have a lot more weird energy slumps and stuff like that happening. That being said, I never feel as energetic after I eat as I do during the fast, and that's because during the fast I'm running on ketones increasingly as the day goes on. As the day gets longer, and my fast is longer, I have more mental clarity and more energy. Then, after I eat and my body shifts fuel sources, I feel more relaxed and calm and less productive. I like to use the same analogy all the time. Think about lions after they feast. What do they do? They sleep. Think about Thanksgiving dinner, what does everybody do after Thanksgiving dinner? You're all really tired. That's because digestion takes a lot of work. Now, I don't completely crash after my dinner. As your body becomes more metabolically flexible, you also should not just totally crash. You'll feel better, but you're not going to feel as energetic.

Melanie Avalon: I agree. That's the sort of response that I have as well. That's actually why I like eating later. It actually makes me tired, and it helps me sleep. The thing I'm wondering about is, the feeling, is it tiredness, just like you feel like you ate a big meal and you feel satiated and nourished, but you're tired? When I hear pizza and ice cream, I think more of a not good feeling, and maybe I'm getting a little bit esoteric. What I'm wondering is, is it literally just the feeling of a lack of energy or is that also the feeling of inflammation and reacting to food and an uncomfortable feeling? I know it can be a little bit vague or a little bit unclear about discerning between those two different things, but if it's just the tiredness and the digestion and everything, then I don't think that's necessarily a problem, and it's something that may or may not change, depending on how you continue. But if it is a different feeling of discomfort and brain fog and that sort of feeling, then I would also look at the food choices and see if the foods are not working for you specifically. That's my only other thought about it.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I definitely think that's important as you go on. Just during the adjustment phase is just not the time to feel like that's how you're going to feel every all the time.

Melanie Avalon: True.

Gin Stephens: By now, I'm pretty sure that Celeste has adjusted.

Melanie Avalon: Celeste, email us back.

Gin Stephens: Follow up. We would love that. Follow up, let us know how it's going, if it's gotten better.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we answer one more question?

Gin Stephens: Yes. Amber says, subject, “15-hour fast?” “Hello, ladies. Thank you so much. I love this podcast and each of yours individually and listen to all three regularly. My mother has had great success with intermittent fasting and I have as well, but have some struggles and questions. I exercise at a rigorous boot camp three to four times a week. I have diabetes in my family and feel reading Jason Fung’s Obesity Code as well as Gin’s books have been very helpful at lowering my insulin by lowering my number of feedings each day. I strive to fast every day, but I also have struggles. I love to eat with my coworkers, and also my family enjoys an evening meal together too. I skip breakfast and sometimes lunch. I try to fast 20 to 24 hours on Sundays and Wednesdays because of my schedule but most other days, it's only 15 hours. I feel great and workouts are great. I feel like it has to be lowering my overall insulin. But am I missing out on benefits because I only fast 15 hours most days?”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Amber, thank you so much for your question. I think what you're doing sounds great. I think 15 hours is great, especially if you're feeling great, you're seeing all of the benefits, and you're exercising at a rigorous boot camp three to four times a week, that's a lot right there. A lot of people do find just fasting without even that intensive exercise-- Oh, and then on top of that, you're also doing a few 20- to 24-hour fasts. If anything, some people in your situation, with the exercise, it might be too much. I'm not saying it's too much, but I'm saying she's wondering if she's not fasting enough, but for a lot of people, everything that she's doing might be the high end of what they even should be doing. So, I think it sounds like it's working great for you. Gin, what do you think?

Gin Stephens: Well, it just depends what benefits she's looking for. She says is she missing out on benefits? Maybe depending on what benefits you're looking for, like for example, you're not getting into peak fat burning time if you only fast 15 hours most days. On the flip side, if you're happy with your weight, then maybe you don't need to get into peak fat burning time. That's the part we haven't really enough information to know what benefits she's looking for. If you're looking for increased autophagy, you're going to have some increased autophagy at 15 versus if you got up and ate breakfast. But if you really want to have a little more increased autophagy during the day, you may want to go a little longer.

Melanie Avalon: She's also doing boot camp three to four times a week, and that's going to be really supportive of autophagy. I don't know if she's doing it fasted.

Gin Stephens: We don't know. There's still a bunch of questions. She's lowered her insulin, that's really good. If she's at a very healthy weight where she feels great and not trying to lose weight, and this feels like a great lifestyle and her rhythm is good and the exercise time and the fasting time, then she doesn't need to change a thing. But if she's not seeing what she wants to see as far as progress or goals or health, then I would tweak it. Only Amber can answer that question based on her goals. This may be just the right amount of fasting for her, but it might not be.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Should we do one more?

Gin Stephens: Sure. We're covering up like crazy today. And I talked for 100 years at the beginning.

Melanie Avalon: I know I'm impressed. I feel like and we talked about Valter Longo stuff for a long time. I feel like time is weird on this episode. One more question from Jennifer, the subject is, “Long-term intermittent fasting.” Jennifer says, “Hi, Melanie and Gin. Your intermittent fasting podcast is the best thing about Monday mornings. Thank you both for your wisdom. Within the last month, I have listened to two podcasts on fasting in which the speaker has said that eventually after two to three years, intermittent fasting stops working and that your body stops losing fat and/or maintaining fat loss. The experts said that bodies become adapted to whatever we do. Both of you have said this too about fasting protocols, and that eventually your body will react against this adaptation by gaining weight. Both podcasters stated that intermittent fasting only works in the short term. Well, both of you have proven this wrong in your own lives. I wonder if you could address and refute this claim to make me feel better about my long-term plan, which is to intermittent fast forever. Thanks for your insights on this. Jennifer.”

Gin Stephens: I'm going to give you a short answer, and then the long answer. The short answer is no. [laughs] You like that one? Oh, lordy. I just love when the experts who are not intermittent fasters like to talk about what's going to happen with the people who are intermittent fasting when they really just don't know. I hit my goal weight in 2015, and it is now 2021. Through that time, I went through menopause also. This morning, my Shapa scale shows that my Shapa age is 18. Isn't that wacky? It's based on my body composition, I'm 18 years old. So, I will say that no, that they are wrong about that it is impossible to maintain fat loss. Thanks to intermittent fasting. I've been in these communities for a long, long time since 2015, and the only time I've ever seen people having trouble with weight regain has been over the pandemic. A lot of people, who had been maintaining very well, all of a sudden had little weight gain after the pandemic. Did you know, Melanie, that the average weight gain was something like 29 pounds for adults?

Melanie Avalon: Did you listen to Joe Rogan today?

Gin Stephens: I don't.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, Mark Sisson was just on Joe Rogan and they were talking about. I just listened to that statistic right before this.

Gin Stephens: Everybody was talking about it all over the place, that the average American gained 29 pounds over the pandemic. We saw some of this in the intermittent fasting community.

Melanie Avalon: Some people just didn't gain weight, but if you did gain weight, that was the average, I think, regardless.

Gin Stephens: That's not what the way I saw it. That doesn't mean that the way I saw it was correct. You know how when you play the game of telephone by the time you get around the circle, it's completely different. I did hear people say repeating that, that the average person gained 29 pounds, but just because I heard people saying that doesn't mean that's really true. [laughs] Whatever it is, this is the only time in the history of managing Facebook support groups that we suddenly had people not maintaining their weight. What most of them have done, they've corrected it since then because it was because we were all baking sourdough bread and sweet rolls and cookies and cocktail day was every day.

Melanie Avalon: We weren't outside and we were not exercising, lost our jobs, stress. It's basically everything for weight gain.

Gin Stephens: It all happened at one time.

Melanie Avalon: Cornucopia of unpleasantness.

Gin Stephens: Other than that, let's just put that to the side, pretend 2020 didn't happen, my honesty pants got a little tighter. Again, right this minute, my waist measurement-- because I keep up with my waist measurement, it's at the lowest it's ever been. I have not been slimmer in my adult life ever maintaining it, and in a period of time, and I'm 51 years old, and I've been through menopause in the past year. So, our bodies do become adapted to what we do, but that doesn't mean that you're then suddenly going to start to crazy gain weight, because you're adapted. Being adapted doesn't make you suddenly crazy gain or lose weight. Now, if I started eating all day long every day, I would probably gain weight. But as long as I continue intermittent fasting, I'm not going to. Of course, prior to intermittent fasting, I was crazy gaining weight. Whatever has happened with my body, I am thousand times more healthy than I was in 2014 when I weighed 210 pounds. Even if it was true that my body changed and no longer, whatever, all this period of time has been so much healthier than if I hadn't lost the weight. I really don't know why the experts would say that. They're trying to convince you not to even try it, “Don't even try it, it's helpless.” If that's the case, why even try to lose weight at all? But we can lose weight, and we can keep it off. I don't want you to let those people get inside your head.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, for anybody doing a dietary protocol fasting, whatever they're doing, if there becomes a point where they lose a certain amount of weight where the body perceives it as not being adequate body fat and/or they're eating a diet that the body perceives as not enough food and nutrition, that's going to be most likely an inevitable response of the body adapting or wanting to hold on to weight. Intermittent fasting does not necessitate that. They seem they're the same thing as intermittent fasting, but they're not because they can go with intermittent fasting, but they don't have to.

Gin Stephens: Right. An overly restrictive intermittent fasting lifestyle is not recommended by either me nor by Melanie.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, the two things I'm saying is, like Gin said, the overly restrictive diet or the body reaching a point that's too low for what the hypothalamus feels it should be at. Those are not synonyms with intermittent fasting. It's funny, you mentioned that they were wrong about that and my initial response was, “Oh, I don't ever say anybody's wrong.” Then, I thought, “Well, actually, it is wrong, because some people,” I don't know exactly what they said. they said it's impossible to maintain a weight with intermittent fasting. That is wrong, because we see it all the time. Yes.

Gin Stephens: I just wonder what stops working? Autophagy doesn't stop working. Mark Mattson has been living in intermittent fasting lifestyle for, I don't know, what over a decade now. He's a neurological researcher and wrote the article in the New England Journal of Medicine that came out in 2019 that got everyone excited about the health benefits of intermittent fasting. He's one of the premier experts, and he does it. I don't think all these people that study it would do it. The more you read about it, the more you learn about it, the more you want to do it. I think people just like make things up.

Melanie Avalon: I think some people can do intermittent fasting, but then they also might--

Gin Stephens: They might stop doing it.

Melanie Avalon: Or they might be more lax is the flip side. They might actually still be able to maintain or lose weight without doing what they perceive to be as strict as they need to be all the time. The opposite could also be true. You might be able to not be doing all the fasting all the time and have some days off and still maintain and lose weight as well.

Gin Stephens: You're saying your maintenance protocol could be more relaxed than your weight loss protocol?

Melanie Avalon: That might be possible.

Gin Stephens: If you relax all the way down to not doing it anymore [laughs] ever, then you're probably going to regain the weight. That's the thing. I would not want to stop doing intermittent fasting for the health benefits alone, but I also feel great, and I'm maintaining the weight loss for the first time in my whole adult life. None of the other things led to lasting weight loss that I did, none of them, not one, only intermittent fasting. Yeah, it's my study of one but--

Melanie Avalon: We'll take it.

Gin Stephens: Yep.

Melanie Avalon: Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. a few things for listeners. Before we go, you can submit your own questions to the podcast, just directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. I'm MelanieAvalon, Gin is GinStephens. I love Instagram.

Gin Stephens: Oh, can I tell you something very exciting?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I was on Instagram the other day. I went to see what Tim Spector was posting. You know how when you go to someone's page and it says follow back, is he following you?

Gin Stephens: Yes. I was not following him, but I followed him back. It said, “Follow back.” I was like, “Oh my God,” because Tim Spector is one of my heroes, obviously, and Mark Mattson too. I don't even know if he's on Instagram, but I'm going to go look, but I was like, he knows who I am. Anyway.

Melanie Avalon: That is really exciting. I love that feeling.

Gin Stephens: It was exciting. It was so exciting.

Melanie Avalon: I just followed him on Instagram, and it recommends following Zoe. That's funny.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I don't follow Zoe yet, but maybe I should. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, anything from you, Gin, before we go?

Gin Stephens: Nope. Everybody check out my blog post if you need to read something. ginstephens.com, Change is in the Air.

Melanie Avalon: Perfect. Well, I'm excited for you.

Gin Stephens: Thank you.

Melanie Avalon: I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Dec 20

Episode 192: Food Sensitivities, Using Food Sense Guide (How To), Plateaus, Maca Powder, Bingeing, Emotional Eating, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 192 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

 PREP DISH: Prep Dish is an awesome meal planning service which sends you weekly grocery and recipe lists, so you can do all your meal preparation at once, and be good to go for the week! It's perfect for the IF lifestyle! And better yet, the meals are all gluten free or Paleo, which is fantastic if you're already doing so, but also a wonderful way to "try out" gluten free or Paleo with delicious meals, and no feelings of restriction!! We can't recommend them enough! Get A Free 2 week trial At prepdish.com/ifpodcast!

AUDIBLE: This is Melanie's well-known secret for reading #allthebooks #allthetime! Audible provides the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet, in every genre! With Audible, you can listen on any device, anytime, anywhere! Every month, members get 1 credit to pick any title, unlimited Audible Originals, access to daily news digests (The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post), guided meditation programs, Audible Sleep, and more! Audible provides rollover credits, easy exchanges, discounts on titles beyond credits, and audiobooks you'll keep forever! For those with children, check out the free Stories.Audible.com! Go To audible.com/ifpodcast Or Text IFPODCAST To 500500 For A 30 Day Free Trial, Including A Free Audiobook!

BIOPTIMIZERS: A Company Whose Mission Is To Fix Your Digestion! Get Their Full Spectrum Magnesium Supplement To Fix Your Magnesium Status, Containing All 7 Versions Of Magnesium! Go To www.magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save Up To 40% Off Select Packages.

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

1:10 - PREP DISH: Free Subscription! Get a free 2 week trial At Prepdish.com/ifpodcast! You'll get weekly gluten-free and Paleo grocery and recipe lists!!

2:40 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical May Happen After Your First Order!

Check Out Shapa Scale And Use The Promo Code IFStories To Save $20

The Cancer Code: A Revolutionary New Understanding Of A Medical Mystery (Dr. Jason Fung)

16:15 - Listener Feedback: Shelly - Feedback for Food Sense Guide

FOOD SENSE GUIDE: Get Melanie's App To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue Of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, Histamine, Amine, Glutamate, Oxalate, Salicylate, Sulfite, And Thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, Reactions To Look For, Lists Of Foods High And Low In Them, The Ability To Create Your Own Personal Lists, And More!

Melanie's Email List 

The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #62 - Dr. Becky Campbell

Dry Farm Wines: Natural, Organic, Low Alcohol, Low Sugar Wines, Paleo And Keto Friendly! Go To DryFarmWines.com/IFPodcast To Get A Bottle For A Penny!

26:55 - AUDIBLE: Go To Audible.com/IFPODCAST Or Text IFPODCAST To 500500 For A 30 Day Free Trial, Including A Free Audiobook!

29:10 - Listener Q&A: Becky - Fasting Window Time

The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #27 - Nick Ortner

The Melanie Avalon Podcast Episode #45: Glenn Livingston, Ph.D.

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #68 - Glenn Livingston, Ph.D.

Never Binge Again: How Thousands of People Have Stopped Overeating and Binge Eating - and Stuck to the Diet of Their Choice! (By Reprogramming Themselves to Think Differently About Food.)  Glenn Livingston, Ph.D.

42:00 - BIOPTIMIZERS:  Go To www.magbreakthrough.com/ifpodcast And Use The Coupon Code IFPODCAST10 To Save Up To 40% Off Select Packages.

44:30 - Listener Q&A: Amanda - Maca Root and Katie's Question episode 187

49:00 - Listener Q&A: Katie - Sleep, Paleo and a Plateau, oh my

Kiss My Keto C8 MCT Oil

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 192 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody. I want to take a minute to tell you about one of our sponsors, Prep Dish. Prep Dish is changing the way thousands of families do mealtime. Here's how it works. Prep Dish thoughtfully crafts a week's worth of gluten-free and paleo meals that feature seasonal ingredients to make the most of your budget, save you time and surprise your taste buds. You may be thinking, but we aren't gluten-free or paleo. Well, when I have used Prep Dish, my family didn't even notice that the meals were gluten-free because they are based on real food ingredients and the meals were delicious. There's also a keto plan if that's what you're looking for.

When you join Prep Dish, along with the weekly menu, you'll get a printable grocery list and instructions for prep day. Just two hours of preparation yields scrumptious, good for you dishes all week long. You shop once, prep once.

When you join, not only do you have access to this week's menu, but you can choose from past week menus. The dilemma of what's for dinner is solved forever. Go to prepdish.com/ifpodcast for your free trial. Yep, it's totally free. And once you see how easy it makes your life, you won't know what you did without it. That's prepdish.com/ifpodcast, and now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: And one more thing before we jump in. Are you looking for the perfect gifts this holiday season for yourself and others? Well, the average male uses six skincare products per day, the average female uses 12. And as it turns out, conventional skincare and makeup is full of toxins. We're talking things like endocrine disrupters, obesogens. Meaning, they literally cause your body to store and gain weight, and even carcinogens linked to cancer. So while you may be fasting clean, you may be putting compounds directly into your body during the fast, they can be affecting both your health and weight loss. Thankfully, there's an easy solution.

There's a company called Beautycounter and they make an array of skincare makeup products that are extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can feel good about all of the ingredients that you put on. Their products are even tested multiple times for heavy metals. And for the holiday season, Beauty Counter has so many amazing gift sets. These are bundled products at a discount, and they make incredible gifts. Think about it. You can get the products for yourself or for your friends and family and help clean up their skincare, all in disguise of gift-giving. Works pretty well. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. And if you use that link, something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. If you're trying to figure out exactly which products to get, check out my beauty counter quiz, that's at melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz. And for the latest discounts and giveaways from me, definitely get on my clean beauty email list. That's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. All right, now back to the show.

Hi everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 192 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi everybody.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?

Gin Stephens: I am doing great, sitting here with my mug of hot water.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome.

Gin Stephens: Drinking it. My EM-TEA.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, right. EM--

[laughter]

Gin Stephens: The best kind of tea.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, what's the EM?

Gin Stephens: Well, you know the word empty. There's nothing there. It's empty. It's just hot water. Somebody in one of my Facebook groups invented that word for hot water in a mug. I can't remember the name of the person who did it, but I love it.

Melanie Avalon: What is the M stand for? Oh, I thought it was like Em-T.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's like tea. Okay, it's like tea, but it's not tea. It's just hot water. It's EM-TEA.

Melanie Avalon: It'd be perfect if like WT met empty, because then it would be water tea. Are you following? If I'm saying if the EM stood for something related to water.

Gin Stephens: Well, we spell it E-M, capital T-E-A. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: What's her name? Emily, who founded?

Gin Stephens: No, but it's like empty, it's a play on words. Okay.

Melanie Avalon: I know it's a play on words. I'm trying to make both sides of it work.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's just a play on words. It's EM-TEA, empty.

Melanie Avalon: I can talk about words for hours.

Gin Stephens: Anyway, I'm enjoying my EM-TEA. It's delicious.

Melanie Avalon: How was your Thanksgiving?

Gin Stephens: It was nice. We had a small family gathering. We all stayed safe. Yep. It was delicious. Here's what's so surprising. I'm using my Shapa scale and I fully expected-- I've noticed that the Shapa age goes up as your weight fluctuates upward, in whatever, but I was expecting the day after Thanksgiving that my age would have fluctuated upward and it didn't. Then, yesterday, the day after the day after thank-- Wait, no, yesterday was the day after Thanksgiving. I still ate two meals of Thanksgiving foods. We had all these leftovers. So, this morning, I was like, “Surely, my weight will fluctuate up.” No, I'm still 23 on my Shapa app, isn’t that crazy? Are you getting a Shapa age, have you seen it?

Melanie Avalon: I am. I'm not very happy with it. It says that I am my age. How does it determine the age?

Gin Stephens: I don't know. Some kind of formula of some sort. It might have something to do with my-- I'm just guessing. Remember how we filled out a survey? Or we answered a survey when we got the app? Like when did you feel your best? Or what weight were you when you felt good, stuff sSomething like that? I have a feeling it has something to do with that. Or, what age did you feel your best? I'm not really sure. I know we answered a bunch of questions at the beginning. I bet it used some of that information.

Melanie Avalon: I Facebooked you, I was so excited. I finally got my color. I'm suspicious because I as well-- So, teal is losing weight, right?

Gin Stephens: A little bit. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: I was convinced that after Thanksgiving, I still did one meal a day, but I ate a lot of the Thanksgiving food. I was like, “It's going to tell me I'm gaining weight,” or something. But it still says I'm losing weight. I'm like, “Is this right?”

Gin Stephens: Well, remember, it lags behind your overall trend. Even if your weight fluctuated up three pounds the day after Thanksgiving, it's still going to show teal, if your overall average for the past 10 days, it only goes by that. It looks at the last 10 days, and what that average is compared to the previous average of the 10 days before that, something like that. It's like turning a battleship. Your Shapa color is not going to change a lot quickly. I'm not surprised my color has been blue because I had that gray after going to the beach a couple times, my overall trend started to go up. Then I just kept doing what I normally do. It's blue now because of the gray before. That's me fluctuating within-- so I'm not like losing beyond my-- if that makes sense. My blue now is because it was gray before, but the thing that surprised me is that my Shapa age didn't fluctuate upward.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it says my Shapa age is exactly my age. Oh, and for listeners, I know they probably aren't familiar-- Basically, this is a scale that instead of showing your weight, shows you a color.

Gin Stephens: I actually put a page on my website, finally. I figured out how to make pages with things on the lucky--  like you always have been doing. I finally made ginstephens.com/shapa.

Melanie Avalon: A redirect. Good job.

Gin Stephens: It's not a redirect. Weebly doesn't redirect. They don't let you redirect, but I figured out how to make a page, and then I can put information on it. It's not a redirect. If go to ginstephens.com/shapa, it has everything about Shapa, plus a link to Shapa. See, before I couldn't figure out how to do it without making a million pages, but they're all there, but they're not showing up in the navigation. I finally figured that out.

Melanie Avalon: Good job.

Gin Stephens: I know. I'm not like a web designer, but every time I figure out something new, I'm like, “Woo, I feel so good.”

Melanie Avalon: I know, it's really exciting, especially when something pretty useful.

Gin Stephens: Because I do my website myself.

Melanie Avalon: Me too. It'd be nice to outsource but it's also really nice to have complete creative control and like, I don't know, being able to do everything.

Gin Stephens: Well, when I did Intermittent Fasting Stores, the website for that I outsourced that. I had it professionally done, and they used a different platform. I use Weebly, but they put it on a different platform, and I can't figure out how to do anything there. It's completely not set up the way I would do it and so I've never loved it. I can't figure out how to change it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I will say though, I really want to interview the founder of Shapa, so I'm going to--

Gin Stephens: Awesome. He's brilliant.

Melanie Avalon: Whenever I talk to him. I didn't realize, he's a New York Times bestseller.

Gin Stephens: I did know that. Yeah. He has like TED Talks that have been huge. He's a top mind. He's a professor at Duke University, I believe.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, perfect. I love when they're universities because they can very easily find their contact information.

Gin Stephens: Oh, good.

Melanie Avalon: Because I always have a professor email. That's how I contacted David Sinclair, Benjamin Bikman. I feel when they're professors, they actually read their professor email. So, it's very-- Oh, that's exciting.

Gin Stephens: Being married to a professor, I could vouch for that.

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Valter Longo, yep. This is great.

Gin Stephens: That's one I will definitely want to listen to, because I just love him because I love Shapa. Shapa is a great product, and he's a brilliant man. So, definitely get him on there, but I have one other follow-up. I talked last time that I'm going to be eating according to my PREDICT 3 study results, and I was going to do it after Thanksgiving.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-Hmm.

Gin Stephens: Well, they want you to commit to doing it for 28 days. So, I was starting to plan it., and I'm like, “Okay, I'm going to be ready to start.” And I'm like, “Wait a minute.” I'm going to the beach for few days with a friend. And then I also have Cal and his wife are coming to stay. What am I going to eat? And then we have Christmas. So I was like, “Nope, I'm waiting. I'm going to wait till right after Christmas.”

Melanie Avalon: Do they care when you do it?

Gin Stephens: No. They don't care what I do it. I'm going to start it after Christmas because I was just like, “I just can't.” I have a hard time with any not just eating whatever I want. I really feel I have to try it. I have to try it. I can't go through all this and then not try to do what they say to do.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'll be really interested to see how it goes.

Gin Stephens: I wonder what my Shapa will do. I will have some data there. Maybe I'll be like 12 years old. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Guess who I interviewed yesterday?

Gin Stephens: Was it Jason Fung?

Melanie Avalon: Nope.

Gin Stephens: Oh. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Although I am almost done with his book, Cancer Code.

Gin Stephens: But that one's coming up. Jason Fung is coming up.

Melanie Avalon: It is.

Gin Stephens: Well, then you're just going to have to tell me.

Melanie Avalon: Dr. Alan Goldhamer from True North Health Center, the extended fasting.

Gin Stephens: Oh, okay. Yeah. You told me you were going to talk to him.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. For listeners, he was in the Netflix documentary on well, and he spent a lot of podcast and he runs the-- Is it the only extended water fasting stay in center in the US? At one point, it was the only one.

Gin Stephens: It's the only one that I ever hear people talk about. I would be surprised if it is the only one because there's lots of things all over the place. It's just the only one that people always talk about.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's pretty well known for that, and very interesting conversation. We get so many questions on this show about extended fasting, but we don't really talk about it that much. We stick to intermittent fasting. So, it was really nice to really pick his brain on that topic. I think the most surprising thing for me, was that he basically recommends-- so he's a huge fan of daily intermittent fasting, but not longer than 16 hours.

Gin Stephens: Well, that's interesting.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. He thinks like a daily up to 16-hour fast, and then if you're doing longer fasts, then it's an extended fast, like, you're doing the five days or more.

Gin Stephens: He thinks either 16 or 5 days, that's so interesting.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. 5:40.

Gin Stephens: Either fast for 16 or 5 days.

Melanie Avalon: 16 hours, or 5 to 40 days. I think the reasoning was the protective mechanisms, and everything that happens with extended fasting is really kicking in later. He did talk about a little bit about fasting-mimicking diet. I don't know, it was really interesting, but he did say he really wanted to focus more on extended fasting. We didn't go too deep into intermittent fasting, but it was really motivational. Man, I want to do an extended water fast now.

Gin Stephens: I do not. I do not want to do. I can just say it. I mean, there might be some health situations that would cause me to rethink that. So, I'm not going to say I would never do one, but in the state of health that I am right now, I have no desires to.

Melanie Avalon: If when I move back to California, though, I definitely want to check it out because it's in California, so that could be fun.

Gin Stephens: I know you've talked before on the podcast about struggling with gaining weight, so I wonder-- technically, you're more to the lower end of the healthy weight for your body. Is that right? I wonder what would he say about doing an extended fast at that situation? If you're at the lower end of your weight range?

Melanie Avalon: I actually don't know if I'm underweight still, I might be. I should have asked him that. He did say the most benefits come with people who are healthy and normal weight and they want to just go to revitalize their body.

Gin Stephens: I love that he said that.

Melanie Avalon: I mean, obviously, a lot of people coming in are coming in to address obesity, like health issues, diabetes, gut health, many things. He did say a lot of people come are just normal people. I should have asked him about being underweight.

Gin Stephens: I do believe that's a contraindication for longer fasts.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm sure it is. For listeners, well, it's coming out probably way after this airs, but follow the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast because it's really a good episode to check out. When it airs, I'll mention it again on the show. Shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: One more announcement before we do our questions. We are nearing Episode 200, and if listeners would like to submit questions, we are going to have an Ask Me Anything episode. So, you can ask us anything. By anything we mean, it doesn't have to be fasting related. It can be just whatever you like.

Gin Stephens: Awesome. I'm a little scared now. No. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I'm not saying we will answer but--

Gin Stephens: You could ask. Exactly. All right, so we've got something from Shelley. The subject is Feedback for Food Sense. She says, “Hello. I have listened to all the intermittent fasting podcasts, read yours and Gin's books, starting to get into the biohacking podcasts now. I saw your offer for this app this morning and downloaded it right away. I have so many questions.” By the way, she's talking about Melanie's Food Sense app that was developed by Cal Stephens, I'm so proud of him.

Melanie Avalon: For Thanksgiving, I actually-- to my email list friends, get on my email list, melanieavalon.com/emaillist. I offered to give it away as my Thanksgiving gift to everybody. I basically spent all Thanksgiving for the exception of when I wasn't at get-togethers gifting it to people because I did not anticipate how many people would take me up on that offer. But it hit number five in the iTunes Store for all food and drinks. I want it to be number one, but I'm watching it.

Gin Stephens: Very cool. All right. She said, “I saw your offer for the app this morning and downloaded it right away. I have so many questions. I have always known I had food sensitivities. I thought it was gluten/wheat, and dairy. I did give those foods up and felt great. Then, not so consistent. I feel all foods bother me. I'm always constipated and bloated. On one of your podcasts, I heard about the Everlywell blood test. Ordered it and took it. Came back as eggs, egg whites, almonds, and cashews is my sensitivities in the 70s. Gluten wasn't much of an issue on the scale. Besides eliminating those items and reducing gluten, I haven't done a good elimination diet, but looking at Melanie's Food Sense Guide app, I'm trying to figure out the best way to use this app and find the foods that truly bother me.

For instance, thiols are high and eggs. Is that what I'm sensitive to? I looked at the other foods that are high on that, and I eat a lot of those foods, like coffee. I never even heard of thiols. Should I stop my coveted black coffee? If I could find a good clean tea to have in my window, I guess I could change. I guess my question is, what's the best way to use this app and make lists? Am I on the right track, start to eliminate or keep a list of foods with thiols or glutamates and how I feel when eating them. I'm excited to maybe figure out how to feel better.

As a little more background, I started IF two years ago this week. I lost 28 pounds, gained six back. I want to say some of it is muscle, since January I've been doing a cardio-strength class two times a week with cardio the other two to three days. I just don't feel as good as I did when I first started IF, and not losing a pound anymore. Just seeing the scale up. I'm a healthy eater, but getting super frustrated. But this app could be a life-changer. Any feedback or advice you have, I would love to hear. Thanks for all the information and support you provide. Love listening to you and Gin every week. Like you guys said last week, we can hear each of you every day of the week, but Tuesday.”

Melanie Avalon: I love it.

Gin Stephens: I do too. Thank you, Shelley, so much for your question. That actually made me think of one more thing that Dr. Goldhamer said yesterday. He said hands down the people who go on the extended fast. They lose a lot of weight obviously while fasting, a lot of its fat and when they regain it, they pretty much preferentially regain muscle if they're following. He advocates a sugar oil salt-free plant-based diet, and he's very passionate about that. But he did say that the weight gain that they see afterwards is typically muscle, which is pretty exciting. Going back to Shelley's question, for listeners, I made the Food Sense Guide app, with Gin son Cal, who is ridiculously talented and basically created exactly the app I was envisioning. I'm really grateful for that.

What it is, it is a comprehensive catalog of over 300 foods for 11 potentially problematic compounds that people can struggle with foods or that they might be reacting to. It's amines, FODMAPs, glutamates, gluten, histamines, lectins, oxalate, salicylates, sulfites, thiols, and nightshades. I made it because a lot of people follow low or high versions of all these different diets, and it can be really frustrating and overwhelming to know what you're reacting to. Like, gluten tends to be a pretty easy one, but things like oxalates, lectins, FODMAPs, it's really hard to keep all that information in one place. I pretty certain there is not any resource out there besides my app that has every food for all the compounds all in one place.

It can be overwhelming, though, because it's not going to tell you this is your problem. You have to be the detective and experiment with foods and look for trends yourself. It is my concern, and I've talked about this on some interviews where I've talked about it before, but I do get worried that people will do exactly what Shelley's doing. They'll think they're reacting to eggs, so they'll look at eggs and say, “Oh, eggs is high in thiols, it must be thiols, and that's not my intention. It really does require looking at your overall diet, looking for trends. It's a tool in your toolbox. What I would suggest is doing experiments, so if you suspect maybe, maybe it is thiols-- Oh, and by the way, in that there is compound info. If you want to learn about the compounds, you could go to thiols and you can read all about them. If you suspect, “Oh, maybe it's thiols,” then, I would suggest trying a low thiol diet for a little bit. Like she said, you can make list, so you can put different foods and you could do experiments and make notes and see how you feel.

I do think out of all the compounds, just from my perspective, what I think people do see radical changes with, if this is the issue bothering them is a lot of people have histamine overload, and doing a low histamine diet can be radical for a lot of people. My interview with Dr. Becky Campbell on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast all about histamine, so I'll put a link in the show notes to that. Also the FODMAP, I personally follow the FODMAP diet just in general. So, that's really helpful for me.

It's not the best answer for you, Shelley, but I would just recommend working with your foods, seeing how you react to things. I do have a comment about the Everlywell. I recently interviewed Dr. Anthony Beck. I haven't aired that episode yet. I really respect him. He knows a lot about testing things. He actually advocates a very specific because I asked him for testing food sensitivities, like what test should you be using? He advocates a very specific food sensitivity tests, which I will have to find out, which one it was specifically, but apparently most food sensitivity test. Just test your immediate IGM reaction. Is your immune system reacting to that food?

There's another test you can do that actually test the secondary effect of that IGM reaction. So, it tells you, “Okay, I'm having an IGM reaction, but is that actually a problem?” Because apparently we can have IGM reactions, and it's not a problem. What matters is how it's affecting things downstream. I really want to get that test done for myself.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that is interesting.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it has something to do with like the-- I don't know, lymph system, but I'm not sure about that. So, I’ll have to figure out what that test was and put a link to in the show notes because I really want to get that done. Yeah, as far as Shelley says she's excited to, how to feel better. I do believe very, very deeply that finding the foods that work for you is so, so huge for feeling well, also playing around weight loss. You could be eating calories that would typically lead to weight loss, but if those foods are inflammatory for you, it can be a huge hurdle. You can be storing water weight, when your body is an inflamed state, it is less likely to burn fat. Inflammatory cytokines create more fat storage throughout your body from the inflammation response. So, I do think that really looking at your foods and finding what's worked for you can be huge, and that's why I create this app. If anybody would like to get it, it is at melanieavalon.com/foodsenseguide. It is only on iOS iPhones right now because Cal, he's an apple developer, but I do have plans to release on Android in the future. Yeah, Shelley, if you find something that works for you, definitely let us know. Do you have thoughts, Gin?

Gin Stephens: To echo what you just said about when things are inflammatory for you that you'll feel so much better when you eliminate them. You know what I have recently eliminated that I'm still sad about alcohol.

Melanie Avalon: Alcohol.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, but, man, I feel so much better after realizing it wasn't working for my body. Like I said, “I'm not going to say I'll never drink alcohol again.” That's not realistic for me. Although, I mean, who knows? Maybe one day, it'll be 20 years from now, I'll be like, “Oh, I never did drink it again.” Who knows? But I'm not there yet. However, it's been, gosh, I guess-- I can't even think of the last time-- maybe it's been over a month since I've had alcohol. I lost like a puffiness that was around my eyes. Looking back at pictures from a year ago because really I switched to Dry Farm Wines, and I was drinking every day because it's clean wine. I was pretty much having wine every day. Anyway, it made a huge difference when I identified that was not working well for me. If it's thiols or salicylates or whatever it is, taking that out.

Melanie Avalon: I was just looking it up. Red wine because the app does have all alcohol pretty much. Red wine is high in amines, histamine, salicylates, and sulfites.

Gin Stephens: What about white wine? I do feel it's the alcohol versus the wine itself.

Melanie Avalon: Beer is high on almost everything. [laughs]

Gin Stephens: It didn't matter to me what I drank I still always felt bad The next day. Less bad with Dry Farm. I mean, that is 100% true. It has less alcohol than other wines, but less bad is still not fabulous.

Melanie Avalon: This is true.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody. I want to take a minute to tell you about one of the sponsors for today's show. And that's Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken-word entertainment and audiobooks. Ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, news, business, and self-development. Every month, members get one credit to pick any title two audible originals from a monthly selection, access to Daily News digests and guided meditation programs. Beyond Audible’s normal entertainment and audiobook options, I want to tell you about something special they're offering right now. And that's stories.audible.com.

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Melanie Avalon: All right, so now we have a question from Becky. The subject is Fasting Window Time. Becky says, “Hello Gin and Melanie. I've been listening to your podcast for about a year now and I've been fasting for about a year and a half. I only started clean fasting in May after listening to you both talk about the importance. I've combined it with very strict clean keto. I track everything and follow my macros to a tee. I've been following this way of life for almost 200 days straight with no cheats. Yay. I have lost over 60 pounds and I absolutely feel fabulous. A little backstory.

I'm a highly emotional binge eater. I will literally eat everything around, regardless of how full and sick to my stomach I feel. I'm a sugar addict. And I find that keto is the best for me because I have absolutely no control when I eat sugar. Fasting is another tool that really helps me because once I start to eat, I tend to want to snack and eat all day. I'm working hard to break these habits, and I've seen a lot of success. I can easily fast 18 to 22 hours every day. I like eating one big meal, and I like eating all of my macros at once. Here is my problem. When I close my window at about 5:30 PM, I struggled to fast when lunchtime hits. I'm a mom of four and I have to make lunches for them. They become very irritable and all I can think about is eating. If I eat a big lunch and skipped dinner instead, I can easily fast the 18 to 22 hours, no problem. I get that maybe my body does better with an earlier eating window, but I would really prefer to eat dinner with my kids and my husband. Is there any tips you can give me to get through the lunchtime torture? I already tried tapping through my urges.” For, listeners, that's tapping, like, what does it stand for? Emotional Freedom Technique? Go to melanieavalon.com/tapping, if you want to learn more about it.

She says, “I remind myself that these thoughts will pass, then my hunger is not an emergency, but I usually end up giving in because my body trying to tell me it runs better on an earlier eating window. I'm hoping you ladies have some great ideas for making my fasting window work better for me and my family. Thank you both so much for taking the time, to not only answer my question, but also for all the work you do for the podcast. I really can't tell you how much you both have influenced my life. Thanks again, Becky.”

Gin Stephens: Well, thank you so much, Becky. This is a tricky one because go back to what you said that you become irritable at lunchtime and all you can think about is eating. It's just one of those things you have to like, weigh out. You make a list, pros and cons, because we can't tell you which of these to do. I can't say I think you should just eat lunch or I think you should just push through and eat dinner. I can't tell you either of those answers. I know that it would be nice if I could, maybe Melanie is going to have a great answer about which to do. I thought and thought about this. For me, when I find myself early in the day, when I was struggling to make intermittent fasting a lifestyle, I would too become irritable because I was trapped in the can't mindset. I can't eat right now. I shifted my mindset thinking instead was like, “No, I'm choosing not to eat right now.” It's not that I can't eat, I could, but I'm going to wait until later because, for me, I feel better when I eat later. I got tired when I ate earlier.

For you, it sounds almost you feel better when you eat earlier. It's hard to tell completely, but if your body is doing better with that earlier eating window, if you're irritable, because it's the thought that you can't eat, and if you're-- you can't shift that mindset to, “Okay, I'm just going too fast, and I'm going to eat with my family,” then maybe you should eat earlier. I want you to make some lists, like pros and cons, like why would I want to eat in the middle of the day? Why would I choose to eat lunch as my big meal? What are the cons to that? Vice versa. Why would I want to eat dinner? And what are the cons with that? I find that when I start writing things down, the answer becomes obvious to me, for myself. I'm struggling with what to do, what to do, but writing it all out, makes it clear. That's what I would suggest that you do.

I don't want you to feel you're giving in or that you're fighting against urges. You’ve got to somehow shift the thinking away from, “I'm fighting this as a battle.” Shift that mindset, like, “You know what, I've realized that it is very important to me to eat with my family and it is not torture that I'm not eating lunch. I feel great when I don't eat lunch, I'm going to be fine.” Is it an emotional feeling that you need to eat? You're really hungry and that's when your body needs to eat? So, make your decisions based on what you write down? The answers to those questions. What you really feel like your body is telling you, and not just your emotions. What do you think, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I really like that idea about the list a lot. I really like what you said about, because it is hard to tell from what she said if wanting to eat is emotional or physical. Is it irritable, just because you want to be eating it or-- I mean, she says all she can think about is eating, which makes it sound like it is more physical, like she actually feels-- Well. It's confusing because it sounds like that, but then she also says that it's pretty effortless or easy to fast long and she feels fabulous. If it is a mental thing and not so much an actual hunger thing, I would actually really recommend checking out Dr. Glenn Livingston's work, that might be something that works for you. He has the Never Binge Again approach. It's not just for benching, it's for anything where you're trying to deal with that voice in your head that is upset about what it wants to be doing. He calls it the pig that wants to be eating.

Gin Stephens: I call it my inner toddler who wants it now. My inner toddler wants it now. It's like, “But I want it now. I want to eat this leftover Thanksgiving meal now. Yeah, I don't want to wait.”

Melanie Avalon: I like that toddler. If it is that where it's literally just the toddler or the pig, and it's not anything about actual needing the food, then that could be an approach that might really work for you. I've done two episodes with him. The first episode I think, is melanieavalon.com/neverbingeagain. And then I did a Q&A episode with him. I actually released that last week, that was really popular too. So that's melanieavalon.com/bingetriggers. That's that approach you could try, but it does sound like what Gin said and what she's saying that the earlier window does work better for her. So, if it turns out that physically health-wise peace with food, that everything is better with the earlier window-- I'm wondering, so can she like-- if she does lunch and closes it, is it unpleasant to sit at dinner without eating?

Gin Stephens: Well, she said if she skips dinner, she can easily fast, no problem. So, really, it might be a matter of feeling like she should eat dinner with her kids and her husband. That whole like, “Well, I really should be eating with them because that's “the right thing to do,” I need to eat with my family. Instead, you could just be with your family, being with people. I've gone to family events where-- I could think of a big family party that I went to a few years ago when my niece-- I think she turned 21, and it was lunchtime. I went and it was like, I don't know, an outdoor event place. I looked at the food and it was not something I really wanted to eat. I would have opened my window if it had been something-- I think it was barbecue, and I'm real picky about barbecue, and it looked fine, but I didn't want to eat the barbecue. I was like, “I'm just going to visit with everybody instead.” It wasn't weird, and it was okay. I didn't force myself to eat food at a time I didn't want to eat it. Food, I didn't want to eat at a time I didn't want to eat it, really. Maybe make that mindset shift. They want to be with you at dinner time, but you can have a mug of some clean fast approved beverage that you like, and you could sit there with them and be with your family.

Melanie Avalon: I understand because it can be hard if you feel like, if it's awkward or you feel the odd one out, or that you're not partaking, goodness knows I think it took probably 10 years for my family to finally accept my craziness when it comes to-- whether or not I'm eating at certain get-togethers. I wish there was a really easy answer for this.

Gin Stephens: I will always eat at a gathering if it's window worthy. I'll have a longer window, too. I don't mind having two meals in a day if the food is really window worthy, and I want to eat it. I have no problem with that. I am cheesy, I'm not going to open it just because everybody's eating or it's expected we're all going to eat right now.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if she can't do dinner with her family, not eat, drink water or whatever. And if everybody is completely accepting and normal, or if that's like that works for everybody, that would be my suggestion. I just don't know if it feels strange. I don't know how old our kids are either.

Gin Stephens: I think modeling a healthy relationship with food is the most important thing. When you do eat, let them see you eat and model that you're not stressed about it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, definitely. Definitely that.

Gin Stephens: Because all those diets that I did over the years, I'm sure that modeled a lot more craziness than intermittent fasting when people see me eat the foods that I love with gusto.

Melanie Avalon: This made me think of one other thing. Can I share it?

Gin Stephens: No, I'm sorry, you are not allowed to share anything else. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I feel bad going on tangents, but it's good advice. One of the other things because Dr. Goldhamer who I interviewed yesterday, he also wrote a book called The Pleasure Trap. There's a chapter in it, because he obviously talks a lot about fasting in the book, or following really intense diets. There's a section on dealing with social pressures. I know, this isn't quite relate because this is not social pressure from her family, but just for those who are struggling with social pressures. He points out that the route of pressure that we get from people to break our diet or not follow our diet, or whatever we're doing really has two main routes. It's either a lack of knowledge on their part, like not understanding the reasons for the diet or the fasting, or it's embarrassment from the other person because people often become really self-conscious about their own choices. It becomes a mirror to other people about their own choices. The thing I really liked that nice tool takeaway was for the first option, where people just don't have a knowledge surrounding it. They call it the Seems Approach.

They said, rather than saying, like, really confidently, and you should be confident, but rather than being super, like, “Oh, I'm doing this because this is the way it needs to be and this is healthy and this is going to change my life,” and blah, blah, blah. Just make everything less committal and make it about it seems. It seems to me that this might help me or It seems that I'm feeling better, or it seems, that can come off as a lot less abrasive to people and a lot less scary. I liked that.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, frame it around like how it works for you.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, how it seems to be working. Yeah, Becky, let us know what you settle on. Could you do both? Could you do the lunch some days and then some days you have family dinner?

Gin Stephens: Yep. Also, if you're fasting 18 hours, that gives you six hours for an eating window. You could really just have a smaller lunch and a smaller dinner.

Melanie Avalon: I thought about that, but she says she likes eating one big meal and eating everything at once.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's none of them seem to be perfect. She likes to eat lunch, and she likes to eat dinner, and she likes to eat one meal. Something's going to have to give. There's no way to do all those things.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, maybe you could do a 80% lunch and then like, nibbling at dinner?

Gin Stephens: That's a great suggestion.

Melanie Avalon: Make your dinner the dessert and you just nibble on.

Gin Stephens: Something small. Yeah, really good idea. Substantial lunch, little bit with the family.

Melanie Avalon: That's what they say. I don't like saying it because it crystallizes a approach that I don't think is necessarily needs to be crystallized, but the breakfast like a king lunch, like a-- What is it? Breakfast like a king, lunch like a something, dinner like a--

Gin Stephens: Pauper? I don't know what the middle is.

Melanie Avalon: Maybe could do a lunch like a king, dinner like a pauper approach.

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Gin Stephens: All right, now we have a question from Amanda. The subject is Maca or Maca Root, Katie's Question Episode 187. Hi, Gin and Melanie, love the podcasts. You two are a huge part of my life as I spend hours a week with you.” Yay, that was just me. “I wanted to respond to Katie's question, second try has been brutal from this week's podcast number 187. Katie said she started adding maca root to her protein shakes. I was having similar problems getting IF to work as well as it had been. I believe underlying stress is the root cause. Unfortunately, I do not have answers. However, I do know what was not an answer for me. maca root. I experimented with maca root to help balance hormones hoping for relief. This is when things got worse. I felt heavier and got heavier. Research led me to find articles and YouTube videos of people who want to gain weight using maca to achieve this. I had no idea weight gain could be a side effect. I was taking maca powder. Perhaps side effects vary based on dose type, whether taken topically or orally. Sometimes what works for one person,can have the opposite effect on another. Hormones are so complicated. Have you heard of this side effect? Are there other solutions like this, which may be detrimental to some? Thanks for all you do, Amanda.” Again, if I said it wrong, it's maca or maca, or whichever.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I love this question from Amanda not so much to like, go on a whole tangent about-- I say maca about maca, but more because I think she highlighted something that really, really is huge for a lot of people. I'm thinking it's something to think about more, and that's exactly what she said is that a lot of these supplements, a lot of these foods, a lot of these things, especially things that have hormonal effects. It's often easy to think, “Oh, it does this one thing for everybody, and that's what it's going to do, and that's why I should take it.” When really it can be it-- I mean, so many things can have different effects on so many people. She found a good example apparently of maca where some people are taking it for their stress and the help their workouts and maybe lose weight from that, but then some people are taking it to gain weight.

I don't actually have a lot of thoughts on maca. I don't take it myself. I think it's really important for listeners to be aware that if they are taking something that's typically something like a supplement that's not a straight-up food, definitely do your research and definitely see how it's making you feel. If it's not providing the effects that you're looking for, definitely be open to not taking it anymore.

Gin Stephens: This is one Dr. Cabeca really likes, right?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Dr. Cabeca really likes maca. I don't want to scare people away from maca, because a lot of people do do well with it. I know one of the tribes well known for using it, I think they call it-- I think Dr. Cabeca talks about this, but you have some really fancy name for it. It means like wonder or something-- They use it for vitality and energy, and it's like, the bee's knees if that phrase is still used today.

Gin Stephens: Well, as you know, we're all so different with our bodies and the foods and the supplements that work for us. I think I told this story on the podcast, maybe two years ago. I don't know it was a long time ago, but a friend of mine was taking the supplement that she said, I started taking, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was, and it was so fabulous. It made me feel so much better. I'm like, “Oh, I'm going to take that too.” So, I'll start taking it. Just because she said she was taking it.

Melanie Avalon: I remember that. What was it?

Gin Stephens: I can't remember what it was, but she had some kind of one of those genetic things that it's for, if you've got this, whatever.

Melanie Avalon: I remember that. Yeah.

Gin Stephens: I started to feel so terrible. I started to feel anxious. Then I was like, “Could it be the supplement?” I looked it up. Yeah, it was the supplement. She was taking it for this genetic, whatever that she's got that I don't have. It made me feel terrible. It was the wrong thing for me. So, that taught me a very huge lesson. At that point, I was like, “Never take something just because someone you know said it is great for them.” Figure out why they're taking it, what's the purpose? Do you have that same need for it? Isn't going to do the same thing for you and trust how you feel?

Melanie Avalon: 100%. Shall we go to our next question?

Gin Stephens: Yes.

Melanie Avalon: All right, so the next question, it comes from Katie. The subject is Sleep Paleo and a Plateau. Oh, my. Katie says hello, “Gin and Melanie, thank you so much for your podcast. I have both of your books, although it took me a while to get What Went Wine, as I am a recovering alcoholic, and I didn't think it would apply to me. However, I recently switched to paleo and it clicked. I needed Melanie's book. I'll try to keep it short, but also want to give you the full picture, so you can answer my question armed with all of the facts.

I began IF in June 2020, following my mom's lead. She started in May. I have over a decade long history of chronic restrictive dieting. When I began IF, I allowed myself #allthethings I had restricted for years. I'm a 35-year-old mother of two boys, six and nine.” She says, “Gin help.”

Gin Stephens: [laughs] Oh, yeah. They're just starting to smelly years.

Melanie Avalon: Oh my. “I am 4’11”, and my starting weight was 151 pounds. The first 20 pounds came off easily. All the while eating everything I wanted to and my window. I started 16:8, and I am now at about 24 I. have hit the dreaded plateau. The scale has not moved in months. I decided to clean up my diet, but I refuse to count calories because of my obsessive dieting history. I tried keto. My mom has lost 50 pounds doing IF and keto, not for me. Two weeks ago, I decided to attend paleo, bought Melanie's book and was ready to dive in. I have not been perfect and the scale has moved slightly, but I am hovering just above 130 pounds, which I've been at for four months and I want desperately to be in the 120s. My ultimate goal is around 110 pounds.

My question is, is there any further tweaking I can do to reach my goal? I know, I know. Alternate day fasting. Sigh. I take medication every day, which needs to be taken with food and honestly ADF scares me. I don't think I can stop it just 500 calories because once it starts eating, I don't want to stop. I’ve red light device, wearable weights, BiOptimizers products and BluBlox. My credit card is not thank you, lol. I take progesterone as I experience horrible menstrual symptoms, nausea, lower abdominal pain and migraines many days of the month. I have interstitial cystitis and ASPD, advanced sleep phase disorder. So, my sleep schedule is wack. I go to bed early 6:00 PM and rise early 2:00 or 3:00 AM, and wake several times during the night to go to the restroom. I'm overheated. Or if my kids took over my bed.” Does she get up and stay up after 3:00 AM? She goes to bed at 6:00? Wow, that is so interesting.

She says, “Is this just a classic case of my body has reached its new setpoint, and the best I can hope for is body composition through fasting and weight training? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I work out four to five days a week, alternating between cardio days and lifting days. I think I've been listening to you gals long enough to know what you might say, but I wanted to pick your brain anyways. Maybe there's something else I'm not thinking of. Could it be stress? My sleep schedule? I've adjusted my eating window to around noon to 4:00, since I go to bed so early. Do I just need to get this paleo way of life more time and trust the process? Plus, I wanted to tell you how amazing and beautiful I think you both are.” So nice. She says, “And thank you so much for all of your hard work and dedication. I was a member of both of your Facebook groups until I decided to deactivate my account due to a lot of negativity surrounding current events. It was messing with my vibe. Thank you so much, Katie.”

Gin Stephens: All right. Well, thank you, Katie. You're really still very new to intermittent fasting since you started in June. I think the fact that you have a history of chronic restrictive dieting is very important. If you've been doing chronic restrictive dieting for years prior to starting intermittent fasting, it's going to take your body longer to trust you. The first 20 pounds came off easily, and now you are feeling stuck. So, you did just switch up what you're eating two weeks ago and then you said towards the end there, do you need to get this way of life more time and trust the process the paleo way of life? I will say yes to that. You've only been changing what you're eating for two weeks. You definitely need to give that some more time. I would I'd be patient with that.

I hear you on not wanting to do alternate daily fasting because the idea of it sounds scary. You said you don't think you can stop at just 500 calories. Here's something that's interesting. A lot of people say that, and then they try it, and then they realize, “Oh, if I choose strategically for my down day meal, it really can be a filling amount of food.” It's just a matter of choosing food that's really going to fill you up and make you feel satisfied from it. If I have 500 calories snack packs of something, I'd be ravenous. Of course, you're not going to do that because you're eating paleo, but you get my point. 500 calories can be nothing that substantial, or it can be a really, really filling and satisfying meal. So, if your normal window has been between noon and 4:00, I bet if you ate something paleo, a large 500 calorie paleo substantial something at 4:00, then you would be satisfied and you would want to stop because you'd be full. Then the next day would be an up day and see that's where the key is going to be. I think you might need some metabolic boosting. Which is why I think ADF would be so good for you, because of that, that chronic restrictive dieting that you've done for so long.It's going to take time for your body to really start to trust you again.

That's what I would recommend. Don't be afraid of that 500 calorie meal, and the key is just to find something that's going to satisfy you, and make you feel you've had a big meal because you really can eat a large volume of food for a 500 calorie down day meal. What do you think, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: The biggest thing I saw, reading this was reevaluating the seeming plateau because she says the weight hasn't moved in months. Then, she says she started paleo and not even 100% paleo, and the scale moved in two weeks. That sounds to me you're at a plateau, you started doing paleo, not even complete paleo, and the scale started moving again. To me, I echo what Gin said. This was the main thing I was going to say was 100% give the paleo approach longer because it sounds like it actually is doing something, doesn't sound to me, like it's--

Gin Stephens: Maybe she needs a Shapa scale because really, I can't express highly enough how important it is to have a way of knowing what your overall trend is doing. Are you weighing daily and then calculating your weekly average, you can do that yourself. Or you could go buy a Shapa of color, or you can use the Happy Scale app that does that for you as well, if you need to see the number. But all of those things can really help you see your overall trend, because I know my weight fluctuated a lot. And it wasn't until I started using the trend method of weekly averaging that I finally was able to feel confident that I was making progress, of course, this was way back in 2014, but it saved my sanity. It was the only time I didn't quit, when I started focusing on the trend, was the only time in my life that I didn't quit something..

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I am really liking the Shapa scale.

Gin Stephens: The calibration period is the annoying part, I get it. In order to really have the good statistical, you've got to go through that.

Melanie Avalon: I like how it gives you like a message about how you're doing.

Gin Stephens: You feel like it likes you.

Melanie Avalon: I know. You feel like it's on your side. Normally the scale feels like, ugh, but it's like this scale is on my side. One other thing about the paleo though, it's hard to know what that looks like. Are you pretty much doing-- I'm assuming listeners are very familiar with paleo, but if you're not, it's basically eliminating, and the way I talk about it in my book What When Wine, which I really recommend listeners get if they are at all interested in trying the paleo whole foods approach. It's basically eliminating grains, processed foods. I have it by yes, no, and maybe. Usually eliminating most legumes, dairy, things like that, but there are layers, and you can find what works for you. I would recommend for Katie, if you can commit 100% to the paleo and sticking it out. That can be huge. With being not doing it completely, I don't know what that other stuff that you're having in is. It's really hard to speak to that. When all else fails, going the whole foods route, I think, not the store--

Gin Stephens: I'd be out of luck if I had to go to the store, since we don't have one.

Melanie Avalon: Although I do go to Whole Foods every day. Oh, that's right. I get so sad every time you see that. The foods that are whole route. Actually, something else Dr. Goldhamer said yesterday, which I've been thinking a lot. It's haunting me, and I'm like, “I don't know, maybe this is true.” He actually thinks it is impossible to be obese if you eat completely whole foods plant-based diet, which I thought was really interesting.

Gin Stephens: Whole foods, plant-based?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Only whole plants.

Gin Stephens: That's interesting. Now, I don't know. I'm trying to think about that. It's really hard to do, though for me, like nothing, but plants.

Melanie Avalon: Me, too. I don't advocate it. I talked to him about this on the show. I do think there is massive role and benefit for a lot of people animal protein.

Gin Stephens: I just get so hungry, like so hungry.

Melanie Avalon: I will say though, because, basically, I try to not be on Facebook all the time, especially since I do a lot in my own group. The groups that I flirt between are polar opposites. They're basically like the low carb keto carnivore groups and then they're like the fruitarian 80/10/10 groups just because I'm so fascinated that people thrive on these shockingly different approaches. I will see a lot of people in the fruitarian, 80/10/10, like whole foods plant-based will say that the lowest weights they are is when they're doing that and they're basically-- it's like they can't enough to--

Gin Stephens: The fruitarian.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-Hmm. Especially fruitarian people say they like they can't eat enough to actually maintain the weight. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying do fruitarian, but I'm saying there's definitely something to eating completely whole foods.

Gin Stephens: The skinniest I ever was, I was not eating whole foods. I've talked about this before, but when I was eating really, really low fat, I looked really terrible. I was eating junk. Sigh. No, that's not recommended. Now we know better.

Melanie Avalon: She said keto didn't work for her. Just want to count calories. Yeah, especially if you don't want to count calories, the whole foods paleo approach. So, encourage you to stick it out, get a Shapa scale, and then tweak things from there. I will say I have a hack for keto that people don't talk about. I don't really ever see people talking about it.

Gin Stephens: All right, I've got a guess as to what it might be, but I'm not going to say my guess. But go ahead and say it. Let me see if it's what? I'll tell you if that was what my guess was.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. If you find that keto does work for you, but you're not losing the weight. If you make the entirety as much as you can, the entirety of the fats, the MCT C8 oil, just give that a try. Basically, like instead of fatty meats, and butter, and nuts, and all that, lean meats, green vegetables, and have the fat be MCT oil C8 only, I think it can actually make a lot of people lose a lot of weight. It's all the effects of keto, but the C8 MCT is the least likely-- I mean, it's very unlikely you're going to store it as fat, it doesn't really get stored as fat. It just massively boosts your metabolism, keeps you in ketosis, and the weight often can drop off. A lot people will think they're doing this with coconut oil only, but coconut oil actually has a lot of saturated fat in it. It's not just the medium chain triglycerides. You could do just like normal MCT oil, which is usually C8, C10. But if you do just C8, and I'll put a link in the show notes. They make this. This isn't hard to get it, it's on Amazon. That's my hack. Was that what you're thinking?

Gin Stephens: I knew it was going to be something about tweaking your fat, because I think that's something that-- For me, I know, I tried keto and my macros were perfect. It didn't work for me. I think a lot of it, if I’d eaten, it like you said, with the different fat. I had a lot of dairy fat.

Melanie Avalon: I think I went through a phase where I was doing what I just said. I wasn't counting calories.

Gin Stephens: Is that when you were like dipping your chicken in the--

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, the MCT oil. I love the way it taste. Well, basically, it actually creates like an umami effect. It really just accentuates the flavor of whatever you are eating.

Gin Stephens: After that bad experience I had with MCT oil, I'll never buy it again.

Melanie Avalon: Which one did you take? Well, I guess it was--

Gin Stephens: I don't remember, but it was-- Oh, no, I'm not getting it.

Melanie Avalon: If you do get it, listeners, I have done my vetting. Get the one that I list. It's in glass only. Yeah, get that one. I probably in the period where I was doing that really intensely-- I mean, I was probably eating 4000 or 5000 calories a day, and I am losing weight.

Gin Stephens: I've told you my story before with my MCT oil shots.

Melanie Avalon: Oh yeah.

Gin Stephens: It was my anniversary of 2015. Yes, it was my anniversary.

Melanie Avalon: Your marriage anniversary or your fasting anniversary?

Gin Stephens: My marriage anniversary, is my anniversary with my husband. I had read this book, I was still in those wacky groups that were all doing crazy diet things and someone had read the Shangri-La Diet. We were all talking about the Shangri-La Diet and how--

Melanie Avalon: I remember that.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, you remember that diet? You were supposed to chug olive oil, but not tasted. That was the whole theory of that one. I was like, “Well, I'm going to chug MCT oil instead,” and it was supposed to reset your appetite and make you not hungry or something about the way your body, anyway. I can't remember it. It has a very interesting premise. That was just a theory. I was like, “I'm going to chug this MCT oil.” I took a shot, and then we were going to go out to dinner with my-- I was going with my husband. So, you're supposed to take the oil away from food. I chugged the MCT oil, and, oh my gosh. [laughs] Can you just say digestive upset? It went straight through me. Well, at home before I went to the restaurant-- it wasn't anything embarrassing in public. I didn't have an accident, but I felt like I might, was about to, and it was so painful. My stomach hurt so bad. We went to this great Italian restaurant. I was like, “I've got bathroom, I’ll be back.” [laughs] I'm a little-- [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, listeners, definitely proceed with caution because that's very common response. I was actually talking with James Clement, who wrote the book, The Switch, who I've had on the show, and we were talking about it and about the response that people have because you can also get-- we were trying to figure out the mechanism of action behind it because he was trying it and it made him nauseous. We were trying to think like, why is that? Is it liver processing it? Its effect on bacteria populations? Endotoxin? I don't know. So, go slow.

Gin Stephens: Well, it's like my body rejected it and wanted it out. Let me just put it that way.

Melanie Avalon: Do proceed with caution if you try this crazy hack.

Gin Stephens: However, if you're having trouble with constipation, it might be a solution.

Melanie Avalon: It is good for that.

Gin Stephens: Anyhow. I can laugh about it now. It was painful. My stomach hurt so badly. It was not something I'll ever forget. Good times. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Good times. [laughs] All right. Wow, this is an absolutely wonderful. Few things for listeners before we go. You can submit your own questions to the podcast, just go to questions@ifpodcast.com. Or, you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. Gin, I'm doing Instagram all the time now. Are you?

Gin Stephens: No.

Melanie Avalon: Oh. People are commenting. They're like, “Listening to you talk about Instagram makes this so much more funny.” Like, looking at the pictures.

Gin Stephens: Here's another picture of my cat. Here's another picture of my Christmas tree. [laughs] Okay, I'll do it right now. I'm going to take a picture of this little Christmas tree while I'm recording the podcast--

Melanie Avalon: And say, “This is the Instagram that Melanie's forcing me to post.”

Gin Stephens: I'm doing it right now. All right.

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to like it.

Gin Stephens: Okay, I hope you like it. Everybody can go back to Instagram and see what Gin posted on November 28. They’d be like, “Oh, that was when she was recording the podcast.” It's so hard to post things on.

Melanie Avalon: Did I tell you? I took a picture with your book, but I haven't posted it yet. Oh, at Target. Friends, do that. Go to Target and get Fast. Feast. Repeat. and take a picture and tag Target. Right?

Gin Stephens: Yes, please do that. Target loves to see and they call people guests. Target loves to see their guests sharing things. So, please do so.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Follow us on Instagram. I'm MelanieAvalon, Gin is GinStephens. I think that is everything. Oh, I didn't even say this whole episode, the show notes are at ifpodcast.com/episode192. All right. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything from you, Gin, before we go.

Gin Stephens: Nope. Not a thing.

Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, I will talk to you next week.

Gin Stephens: All right. Bye-bye.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Oct 04

Stuff We Like

STUFF WE LIKE

Hi friends! Here's a list to all the random stuff that comes up on the podcast that we talk about liking/loving/needing/etc. Have fun!

SCIENTIFIC PAPERS

Many scientific papers are available (often in full form) via Google Scholar. If you have a college email ending in .edu, you can also sign up for Research Gate for full access to many "locked" papers. Colleges and even alumni accounts also often provide online library access, via resources like JSTOR.

FOOD SENSE


Get Melanie's app Food Sense to tackle your food sensitivities! Reactions to various “natural” compounds in foods can often create an array of health problems, from the GI tract to skin issues to neurological and hormonal imbalances. Food Sense helps you identify your potential food sensitivities and minimize food reactions. It includes an easily searchable catalogue of 300+ foods, revealing the general levels of amines, histamines, glutamates, oxalates, salicylates, sulfites, and thiols in various foods, as well nightshade status. It also features an overview of these various compounds, including typical reactions for those sensitive, and lists of foods high and low in them, as well as the ability to create your own personal lists, and quick instant access to the levels of these compounds for anything you may eat!

LUMEN LUMEN (Measure Carb Vs. Fat Burning!)

Measure your fat or carb burning by the CO2 ratio in your breath! This technology wasn’t easily available to the public until now, with the breath-analyzing LUMEN device! You can get $25 off at the link melanieavalon.com/lumen, with the code MELANIEAVALON25.

(OTHER) PODCASTS!

Follow Our Himalaya App Playlist  "Intermittent Fasting Podcast Stuff We Like” For All The Other Podcast Episodes We Talk About!


BREATH FRESHENING!

Want to banish keto breath, without all the additives and sweeteners? Mix a drop or two of Organic Peppermint Oil with some water, in these perfectly sized, adorable glass bottles!

Wow Drops: IF friendly breath drops (they're SUPER potent!) 

Liquid Chlorophyll: Eating foods high in chlorophyll (like chlorella, green veggies, etc.) or supplementing can create fresh breath!

Earthpaste Toothpaste: Minimal but healthy ingredients for epic teeth cleaning and remineralization, available in lemon twist, cinnamon, wintergreen, spearmint. They're minimally sweetened with xylitol, except for the unsweetened spearmint, which Melanie loves! 

Uncle Harry's Flouride-Free Toothpaste - Peppermint : This awesome potent, natural, sweetener-free toothpaste contains just Bentonite clay, calcium carbonate, Purified, deionized, microfiltered water and ten parts per million of silver mineral (99.000% pure), sea salt, ionic minerals, mustard seed, essential oils of peppermint, eucalyptus, clove, wintergreen, and oregano. Gluten free, glycerin free, fluoride free, and vegan.

Uncle Harry's Natural Alkaline Miracle Mouthwash: This awesome, super potent, antimicrobial, sweetener-free mouthwash contains just Colloidal Silver Water, Sea Salt, Magnetic Earth, Purified Ocean Water, Active Ionic Minerals; Essential Oils of Peppermint, Eucalyptus, Clove, Wintergreen, and Oregano!

Dirty Mouth ToothpowderMinimal but healthy ingredients for epic teeth cleaning and remineralization.

AT HOME BLOOD TESTS (30% Off!)

LetsGetChecked: LetsGetChecked provides easy, affordable access to at home lab tests - no doctor's order required! They feature a range of tests including metabolic tests, hormonal profiles, cortisol stress tests, Vitamin D, thyroid (including the important free T3!), celiac test for gluten sensitivity, iron tests, a COVID test (coming soon), and so much more! You can get 30% off site wide, at trylgc.com/ifpodcast with the code IFPODCAST30

KETO AIDS

Keto-Mojo Ketone And Glucose Blood Meter: This meter provides the most accurate measuring of your ketones and blood glucose! And check out Episode 47 for an in-depth conversation all about ketosis with the company's founder, Dorian Greenow.

Ketone Strips: You can use these to measure the levels of ketones in your urine. (Note that the amount in your urine may or may not be indicative of your actual ketogenic state.)

MCT Oil: MCT oil is a refined version of coconut or palm oil, and is high in medium chain triglycerides which support ketone production. You can add it to food, or possibly to your coffee during your fast (It's QUITE a debate!). Check out episode 20 for more info! Recommended brands: Left Coast (derived only from coconuts with a nice C8/C10 ratio and quite affordable, but does come in a BPA-free plastic bottle, so consider transferring it to a glass bottle when you get it!), Bulletproof Brain Octane Oil and Clean MCT. (These last two are more expensive, as it is C8 only - which is faster assimilated and potentially more ketogenic).

CBD (50% Off With Free Shipping!) 

CBD supports the body's natural cannabinoid system, and can address an array of issues, from sleep to stress to chronic pain, and more! Feals makes CBD oil which satisfies ALL of Melanie's stringent criteria: it's premium, full spectrum, organic, tested, pure CBD in an organic MCT oil carrier! Feals delivered directly to your doorstep.  Go To https://feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping! (Note that this link is case sensitive, and sometimes finicky. If it doesn't work, try copying and pasting in a new browser, and/or typing it in a new browser.)

EXERCISE AIDS

Caffeine Pills: Please don't take "pre-workout" supplements during your fast, which often contain autophagy-halting protein, insulin-instigating sweeteners, and inflammation-encouraging fillers. Instead, just have some coffee, or if not a coffee fan, caffeine pills. This brand contains no fillers - just caffeine and gelatin capsules.

APPS

Window - Fasting Tracker App: An iOS app developed by Gin's son to help you track your windows!

MAGNESIUM

Struggling with stress, sleep, or bowel movements? Our modern diet is often deficient in the mineral magnesium, which is involved with all enzymes in the body that use ATP for energy, and is vital for a healthy heart, gut, bones, digestion, immune system, and life in general! Supplementing with magnesium, either orally or transdermally with an oil or lotion, can aid sleep, stress, and energy production, among a host of other things. 

Natural CalmMagnesium in a highly absorbable drink form, available in various flavors. Melanie likes the all natural, unflavored form.

Ionic Magnesium: Magnesium in a highly absorbable ionic form. Doesn't taste the best, but you can down it like a shot! We recommend trying the ReMag or Good State brands.

Transdermal MagnesiumThis is a great way to build up magnesium stores throughout your body. You put this magnesium spray on your skin, which sucks it up and transports it where needed. Note that it can sting in the beginning when you start using it, as your body sucks it up so fast! This should stop as you build up and replenish your magnesium stores.

SERRAPEPTASE

 Serrapeptase is a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silk worm. When taken in the fasted state, it enters the bloodstream and breaks down unwanted proteins, fibrous tissue buildups, and overgrowths. It can work wonders for clearing mucous and sinuses, breaking down fibroids and adhesions, easing pain and inflammation, and so much more! Check out IFpodcast.com/serrapeptase for more information, formulation, dosages, and our recommended brands!

SUPPLEMENTS

In general, we recommend getting most of your nutrition and vitality from healthy whole foods. That said, here are some supplements we do recommend!

ATRANTIL (10% Off! - Beat IBS!) 

On episode 79, we discuss the amazing Atrantil with its founder Dr. Kenneth Brown. Atrantil can help you beat IBS and SIBO, particularly for those who are methane dominant. Atrantil contains natural herb compounds which work syngeristically to control bacteria in the small intestine, while also providing antioxidant and other GI benefits. You can use Atrantil to reduce (or even eliminate!) gas, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea,  and also to support digestive health in general! You need to give the product a full 30 days to evaluate it's effectiveness, as it can take that long to get your gut bacteria back in line, but it's so worth it!! Use the link lovemytummy.com/ifp with the code IFP, to get 10% off your purchase!

BiOptimizers (Discounts And Free Products!)

A company whose mission is to fix your digestion! BiOptimizers makes a range of awesome supplements, including digestive and proteolytic enzymes, gluten-hacks, a "one size fits all" superstar probiotoic (P30m!), HCL, and more! Check out the interviews we had with their founder, Wade Lightheart, in episodes 74 and 84! Check out the most recent shownotes for our current discount or freebie!

GRASS-FED ANCESTRAL SUPPLEMENTS (10% Off!)

These grass-fed, pasture-raised organ supplements from New Zealand are simply AMAZING. They contain NO fillers, and technically, they’re “food!” In the Chinese medicine tradition, think of this as “like supports like!” Taking these supplements can help fill in nutritional deficiencies, without the need to actually eat beef organs (for the squeamish among us!) I cannot recommend these enough!!

Use the link melanieavalon.com/ancestral with the code melanieavalon to get 10% off!!

OPTIONS INCLUDE: 

NATURAL ANTIMICROBIALS (FOR YEAST, BAD BACTERIA, PARASITES, ETC.)
  • Alli-C AllicinThis is a compound found in garlic, and is great for dealing with candida and bad bacteria, to support a healthy gut microbiome.
  • Oil of Oregano: Oregano is rich in the antimicrobial compounds Carvacrol and Thymol. This stuff is super powerful though, so consider taking it for brief stints, or when you feel like you're coming down with a cold. 
  • Olive Leaf Extract: Gin likes this natural extract, high in antioxidants, for immune support! (Ep. 30)
  • Monolaurin: This derivative from coconut is HIGHLY supportive of the immune system, and actually naturally present in breastmilk for that very purpose! Cannot recommend enough! 
  • Manuka Honey: Manuka honey from New Zealand is consistency shown to be highly antimicrobial. In one study, it knocked out EVERY pathogen tested out of dozens, including antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria! It's super pricey, but arguably super worth it. Don't be scammed though - you want to get legit, raw, certified brands with high UMF (or other credibly certified) ratings of their active power, like Wedderspoon, Comvita, Kiva, and YS Eco Bee. 
  • Buckwheat Honey: Want an antimicrobial honey that won't potentially break the bank like Manuka? Buckwheat is the answer!
  • HealthForce's SCRAM: Melanie's all time favorite for parasites and other bad buggers! This wonderful ORGANIC formulation contains clove, wormwood, and black walnut, with additional enzymes and liver support, and no fillers to boot!
GUT SUPPORT

RestoreRestore is an amazing supplement containing Terrahydrite™, a proprietary formulation of Aqueous Humic Substances and trace mineral amino acid complexes which has been shown to actually heal and seal the “tight junctions” forming the gut lining. This can help you beat leaky gutter, seal with food intolerances, boost your immune system, and so much more! While not a probiotic, restore has also been shown to foster a beneficial gut microbiome. Basically, you want restore in your life!

Some good enzymes for digestive support include Enzymedica's Digest Gold (and their other lines) and Pure Encapsulations' Digestive Enzymes Ultra 

HCLProper digestion is key for health, yet it often becomes distressed due to modern food choices, gut dysbiosis, leaky gut, antibiotics, stress, and PPIs, among other things. Hydrochloric acid (HCL) is naturally produced in the stomach to break down protein and fat, and supplementing with it may greatly enhance digestion in some individuals. To use HCL, start with the minimum dosage, then slowly increase at each meal by one capsule, until you feel a warm sensation in your stomach. You can plateau at that number of capsules, before eventually titrating off, if desired. (Studies indicate supplemental HCL does not affect the gastrin hormone which regulates HCL production, so you shouldn’t have to worry about dependency. On the contrary, improved digestion from HCL supplementation may encourage an ultimate return to homeostasis and natural HCL production.) 

Prescript Assist: Ok, there are a LOT of probiotics out there, which can radically help (or sometimes hinder) gut function. We recommend experimenting with different probiotics to find the ones that work for you. That said, Prescript Assist is a soil-based probiotic which Melanie loves, and which works for lots of people with digestive distress. It's the type of bacteria we would have naturally been consuming on fruits and vegetables via dirt (which we we now spray with pesticides, yet wash squeaky clean. #irony).


Ox Bile: Supplementing with Ox Bile can assist you in breaking down fat, especially if you lack a gallbladder. 

DIGESTIVE ENZYMES: Digestive enzymes can be great for supporting the breakdown of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates, if you suffer from digestive distress. Melanie personally likes the Enzymedic line (pick your strength/formulation based on your issue and needed support). For a super potent blend, try out Source Naturals Essential Enzymes Ultra.

Trace Mineral DropsAdd these to your water (they don't break the fast) to assure you're getting all the minerals ya need!

ColostrumColostrum is a milky substance rich in which innovates a newborn's gut to support intestinal health and a robust immune system. You can supplement with colostrum derived from cow or goat milk to instigate rapid repair of your gut! Melanie suggests breaking your fast with it. 

Prebiotin Prebiotic Fiber PowderGin loves this prebiotic fiber to support your gut microbes!

DeSouza's Liquid ChlorophyllYou can take chlorophyll as an internal deodorizer!

Vegan Omega 3 From AlgaeOmega-3s are vital for healthy cellular membranes, brain health, and a host of other things. While Melanie recommends getting Omega  3s from low toxin fish, vegetarians and vegans can be hard pressed to get enough, as the form of omega-3 fats found in plants, ALA, must be converted into the body’s preferred form of EPA and DHA. The body’s conversion rate may be a shockingly low 2–10 percent, and some people harbor genetic mutations that further limit this conversion. If you're vegan or vegetarian, we definitely recommend an algae-based Omega 3 supplement.

Fermented Cod Liver OilIf you REALLY want to support your health with fat-soluble vitamins and Omega-3s, look no further than fermented cod liver oil! Don't like the taste? You can also rub it into your skin!

Collagen Peptides: These are fantastic for supporting hair growth. Consider breaking your fast with them! Melanie currently uses the Bulletproof Brand, but also recommends Vital Proteins. Her recent research indicates that marine based peptides may be better than bovine-based. 

L GlutamineGreat for healing the gut and/or dealing with sweet cravings. (Ep. 33)

Gymnema SylvestreThis can help address sweet cravings.

Vitamin D: Vitamin D (which is actually a hormone) is SO important for SO many things! While the natural form from the sun is best, you can also supplement to boost your levels. But choose your brand wisely, to assure assimilation and purity. K2 also helps the assimilation. (ep: 30)

White Oak BarkA great astringent and supplement for strengthening gums and veins. (Episode 33)

Organic Activated Charcoal PowderThis stuff is great for cleansing, teeth whitening, and so much more!!! 

C-SaltsThese are great for easily assimilated, buffered vitamin C and electrolytes. 

Pau D'ArcoThis is great for combatting candida, mitigating sugar cravings, and makes a great tea!

Dandelion RootDandelion stimulates bile production and aids digestion and detoxification. You can get it as supplement as linked, or eat it fresh!

TurmericTurmeric is a common spice in Indian cuisine, known for it's bright orange color. It's a great natural anti-inflammatory with a myriad of health benefits! You can pick it up in the spice aisle (make sure to get organic), or get it online, like the linked product.

Organic Milk Thistle Extract Powder: For Liver Support - Milk thistle has been consistently shown to help the liver regenerate!

ALLERGY SUPPORT

QuercetinGreat allergy support!

ADRENAL SUPPORT

Organic Ashwaganda: Ashwaganda is an adaptogenic herb which can naturally regulate the adrenals and bring them back into balance!

OTHER

Liquid Gymnema Extract: This herb actually temporarily turns off your sweet receptors, helping combat sugar cravings. It's also an antifungal!

Results RNA ACZ Nano Advanced Cellular Zeolite Extra Strength: Fantastic for detox on a cellular level!

BONE BROTH (20% Off!)

Bone broth is incredibly healing for the gut! It contains so many vital nutrients which help heal and seal the gut lining, and provide optimal gut function, including amino acids like glycine, glutamine, collagen, and so much more! In the ideal world, we'd be making our own bone broth. (This is actually super easy to do by the way, either in a slow cooker or, better yet, the Instant Pot, which makes it SO fast and easy! Check out What When Wine: Lose Weight & Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, for a bone broth recipe!). Of course, sometimes you just want the easy of ready-made bone broth. Unfortunately, most bone broths at the store are not ideal, as they often contain inflammatory additives and come from commercially-raised bones, stripping them of their power!

Bonafide Broth: Bonafide makes wonderful organic bone broths and bone broth soups, slow simmered for 18 hours, and completely free of preservatives! They're "perishable on purpose," so best stocked in your fridge and freezer! They're also available online and in stores! Go to BonefideProvisions.com for more information, and to find stores and order online! Use the code IFBroth for 20% Off!! 

Kettle & Fire Bone Broth: Kettle & Fire is a ready-made, affordable bone broth we can 100% recommend! It's made from completely grass-fed bones (chicken or beef!), with no preservatives or additives, and no added salt. It’s super tasty, accesible, affordable, and nourishing!


Click Here To Get Kettle & Fire Bone Broth And All The Gut-Nourishing Goodness!

GREEN CHEF ($75 OFF!)

Green Chef: Want to make the meals in your window healthier, high quality, and a breeze? Green Chef is a fantastic, USDA certified organic meal-deliver service, with Paleo, Vegan, Vegetarian, Pescatarian, Mediterranean, Heart Smart, Lean & Clean, Keto, Gluten- Free, and Omnivore plans! You receive freshly picked, pre-measured, perfectly portioned, mostly prepped ingredients, with easy to follow step by step instructions, shipped straight to your door! Use The Link GreenChef.us/IFPODCAST75 For A Total Of $75 Off - That's $25 Off Your First Three Boxes!

PREP DISH (Free 2 Week Trial!)

Prep Dish is an awesome meal planning service which sends you weekly grocery and recipe lists, so you can do all your meal preparation at once, and be good to go for the week! It's perfect for the IF lifestyle! And better yet, the meals are all gluten free or Paleo, which is fantastic if you're already doing so, but also a wonderful way to "try out" gluten free or Paleo with delicious meals, and no feelings of restriction!! We can't recommend them enough! Get a free 2 week trial at Prepdish.com/ifpodcast! You'll get weekly gluten-free and Paleo grocery and recipe lists!!

COOKING

Instant Pot: If you invest in just one kitchen cooker, Melanie recommends the Instant Pot, which combines a Pressure Cooker, Slow Cooker, Rice Cooker, Steamer, Sauté, Yogurt Maker and Warmer! So. Many. Things. But the true beauty is the PRESSURE COOKER, which drastically reduces cooking times by cooking with pressure. It's great for breaking down inflammatory plant compounds while maintaining nutrients, and can even turn tough, collagen-rich shanks—which would take all day in a slow cooker—into delicious tenderness in under an hour! And the best thing to make with it? Bone broth!!  

Manual Meat Grinder: Melanie loves this affordable grinder to make her own ground beef and tartar!

The Wonder Mill: Gin uses this mill to mill her own wheat for her homemade bread!

FOOD AND DRINKS

Australis Barramundi: Melanie's FAVORITE fish!! Australis utilizes sustainable practices to raise delicious barramundi fish with fantastic omega-3 levels, tested to be free of mercury and other toxins! They raise their fish responsibly, paying the utmost care to animal health, employee safety, and environmental sustainability, flash freezing their fish at peak freshness! Their barramundi are easy to cook, and even kids love the mild and buttery taste! You can find Australis Barramundi in the freezer section of many fine grocery stores, including Whole Foods! Check out the betterfish.com for more information, and specifically www.thebetterfish.com/why-barramundi for all the awesome benefits! You can also follow Australis: @thebetterfish on Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, and Facebook! Go To Better.Fish/ifpodcast For An In Store Coupon!

Bulletproof Coffee: Not to be confused with putting butter in your coffee, this is the Bulletproof brand of coffee, which Melanie loves. It's tested to be specifically toxin and mold free.  

Fermented Sauerkraut/Veggies Brands: When buying fermented foods, it's key to purchase refrigerated, non-pasteurized versions (at least if you want the probiotic benefits!). You can find these at many Whole Foods. Here are Melanie's favorites: Rejuvenative Foods (Her all time favorite! You can find them at some Whole Foods, or order online. Their Organic Raw Salt-Free Vegi-Delite Zing Salad is AMAZING, and also their Organic Raw Salt-Free Cabbage-Dill-Sauerkraut) , Wildbrine  (Love their Organic Arame Ginger Salad and Red Beet & Red Cabbage), and Farmhouse Culture (Try the the Organic Horseradish Leek and Classic Caraway! Yum!)

Redmond Salt: Conventional table salt is refined to the point of only containin two minerals (sodium and chloride), while ALSO containing anti-caking agents and sugar (dextrose). Fail. Redmond salt, on the other hand, is an ancient sea salt minded in Utah, which features a whopping 84 minerals and trace elements, and is highest in iodine and calcium of all the natural salts, with less potential for any radioactive elements. Basically, redmond salt for the win! (ep: 30)

The New Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day: The Discovery That Revolutionizes Home Baking (Jeff Hertzberg M.D.) - The book with Gin's famous homemade bread recipe!

Concentrace Trace Mineral Drops: Add These Mineral Drops To Your Purified Water For Perfect, Health- Supporting Water!

Gallon Jars: Use These Glass Gallon Jars To Fill With Filtered Water From Ralphs/ Kroger/ Whole Foods/ etc.

Vacu Vin - Use these stoppers to make your wine last longer in the fridge!

Private Preserve Wine Preservation System - Use this inert gas to remove oxygen from wine bottles, making it last longer!

ORGANIC WINE (DRY FARM WINES - Get A Bottle For A Penny!)

Government regulations make it near impossible to know just what is in any given wine. If you react negatively to wine, you might actually be reacting to its additives (sugar, sulfites, stabilizers, colorizers, fining agents, etc.), pesticides (which are particularly concentrated in conventional grapes) and/or mycotoxins. For this reason, we strongly encourage you to purchase organic or biodynamic wines, which are available at decent prices at Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Sprouts. (Melanie's favorites include Albero Tempranillo, Bonterra Cabernet, A to Z Pinot Noir, Candoni Pinot Grigio, and Emiliana Chardonnay.)

That said, many wineries implement organic practices without the certification, due to financial costs, lack of need, or even the stigma of “organic” wines. We wholeheartedly recommend you check out Dry Farm Wines. They travel the world and conduct lab tests to find small, sustainable wineries which produce all natural, organic wines with no additives or pesticides, and which are low alcohol (<12.5%), sugar free (<1 g/L), and mold-free! We personally sought to partner with them for listeners of the podcast! Check out DryFarmWines.com/IFpodcast for more information, and to get a bottle for a penny with your first subscription, shipped straight to your door! #Wine #Winning

BLUE LIGHT BLOCKING GLASSES  (15% Off!)

One of the things Melanie used every single day of my life without exception is blue-light blocking glasses.  They're key for regulating sleep, reducing anxiety, and so much more.  (Check out her interview with Andy Mant - founder of BLUBlox - on The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast!) Plus, did you know the majority of blue light blocking glasses on the market don't block their purported wavelengths, and that you actually want to use different types of glasses depending on the time of day, season, and your personal body? Did you know just a tiny exposure to artificial light can completely offset your circadian rhythm? You do NOT want to miss this fascinating conversation - it might just be a game changer for you!

Use the code ifpodcast at Blublox.com for 15% off! For every purchase, BluBlox donates a pair of glasses to someone in need!

SLEEP HACKS

Dr. Kirk Parsley's Sleep Remedy: This is the ultimate sleep supplement, which Melanie cannot recommend enough! It was developed by Dr. Kirk Parlsey after years of research and experimentation to naturally restore sleep to the sleep-deprived, insomniac Navy Seals. Rather than knocking you out with drugs, this simply provides the necessary neurotransmitters and nutrients in the perfect amounts to naturally support your body's sleep process. Melanie recommends choosing the new Sleep Remedy Capsule versions, which contain NO fillers! She also recommends starting small, and titrating up as needed. Rather than taking the recommended multi-capsule dosage, she's actually personally found the best effects with a mere 1/4 - 1/3 of a capsule! Oh hey sleep efficiency AND money saving!! Use the code MELANIEAVALON for more savings. Yey yey. 

Home-it Adjustable Bed Risers or Furniture Riser bed lifts: Stop sleeping completely flat! Use these risers to tilt the head of your bed, supporting lymph drainage from your brain and better detox while sleeping!

Hypnoser Weighted Blanket 2.0: Sleeping with a weighted blanket mimics the feeling of being held, encouraging more restful, sound sleep!

Gravity Weighted Sleep Mask, Made by the Creator of the Gravity Blanket, For Sleep and Stress: Like the gravity blanket, these weighted masks create a comforting feeling, while blocking sleep-disturbing light to boot!

Chilipad: Use this pad to perfectly regulate your sleep temperature! Get rid of shivers, night sweats, everything!! Melanie will NEVER stop using this one!! Use The Code MA25 For 25% Off The Chilipad, Or The Code MA15 At Chilitechnology.com For 15% Off Their Ooler!

Melanie's EMF Canopy!: EMF Protection from Radiation Sophisticated Box Canopy, EMF Shield Swiss Natural Cotton Comes with Free Under Bed Floor Protection (Full)

f.lux: Install this FREE program on your computer. Like Now. The f.lux program slowly shifts the color tones of your computer to block sleep-disrupting, melatonin thwarting blue light. Simply tell it when you want to get up, and it makes all the adjustments for you! You'l l never look at your computer the same way again. Literally. (And if you ever accidentally turn it off for a second at night, you'll get hit by the overwhelming 'normal" light from your computer and immediately be stimulated and just be like... how was I looking at that at night??) 

Magnesium: Magnesium is the ultimate relaxation, calming mineral, and is vital for sleep. Check out the Magnesium section above to really rock your sleep world.

THE GOAT MATTRESS!!  (5% Off Coming Soon!)

My Green Mattress: Yep, this is THE "goat" mattress Melanie famously discussed! She has the Pure Echo, and absolutely LOVES it!! Having a non-toxic mattress can be KEY for health - after all, you spend 1/3 of your life on it!! My Green Mattress makes totally affordable, organic, healthy mattresses made from organic cotton and wool, and free from chemicals, flame retardants, and other nasties. Plus, they're very comfortable!! They've also got a 10 year warranty, and a 100 day return policy. Even better? If for some reason you don't like it in that time period, (unlikely), My Green Mattress will help you find a charity to donate it to, and then refund it. HOW COOL IS THAT??? COUPON CODE COMING SOON!!

HAIR SUPPORT

Gotu Kola: This supplement is great for supporting hair growth! (episode 32)

TheraBulb NIR-A Near Infrared Bulb (150 Watt): Infrared saunas are great for supporting hair growth. But why pay lots of $$ to go to or buy a sauna, when you can get similar benefits from much more affordable bulbs? Yep, you can use these therabulbs for red light therapy, which can support energy production, metabolism, detox, and a host of other things! Melanie suggests starting with the lower watt bulb, before upgrading later to the higher 250 watt, if desired. You'll also need a clamp to rig this baby up! (Episode 30.)

ACURE Hydrating Shampoo, Argan: This is a great natural, moisturizing shampoo free of all the bad things you DON'T want in your hair!

ACURE Hydrating Conditioner, Argan: This is a great natural, moisturizing conditioner free of all the bad things you DON'T want in your hair!

The Seaweed Bath Co. Moisturizing Unscented Argan Shampoo: This is a great natural shampoo free of all the bad things you DON'T want in your hair!

The Seaweed Bath Co. Moisturizing Unscented Argan Conditioner: This is a great natural conditioner free of all the bad things you DON'T want in your hair!

OUR BOOKS

What When Wine: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine (Melanie Avalon): Melanie's book on finding your personal Paleo and IF protocol, the health benefits of wine, a social guide to IF, 50 AMAZING gluten-free recipes, and much more!

Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle (Gin Stephens): Gin's book on on IF and OMAD, including her personal dieting history, the science of IF, and how to rock the IF lifestyle. Also check out the AUDIOBOOK version!!!

Feast Without Fear: Food and the Delay, Don't Deny Lifestyle (Gin Stephens): Gin's NEW book on finding your personal diet protocol, including gan overview of genetic differences, the individual gut microbiome, and other factors!  Learn how to craft an individual eating style that makes you feel your very best, while still eating the foods you love!

Delay, Don't Deny LIFE Journal (Gin Stephens): This journal is packed with simple yet powerful tools that will allow you to interact with your thoughts and track your results in a way that works for you. You can pick and choose from among the many options for both reflecting and tracking. This LIFE journal includes sections for motivational and reflective entries, such as “Non-Scale Victories” and “Affirmations”. There is a section for goal setting, a reflective food journal, and a traditional journal, where you can respond to the original 30 journal prompts from DDD (or create your own unique prompts, based on what is meaningful to you). It also has aids for tacking your windows, a “Weekly Calendar and Planner” section, a “Movement Journal,” personalized weight loss milestones, progress tracking, and much more!

The Yoga of Eating: Transcending Diets and Dogma to Nourish the Natural Self  (Charles Eisenstein): A fantastic book if you want to cultivate a healthy mindset around food, your body, and/or deal with thoughts of restrictive eating. The Audiobook is narrated by Melanie!

OTHER BOOKS

Atomic Habits: An Easy and Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones:  (James Clear): Learn how making small changes each day can lead to big results. This books explores the science of breaking bad habits, starting new good ones, and how your identity and sense of self plays into everything!

AC: The Power of Appetite Correction (Bert Herring): Gin's favorite book for learning all about the nature of appetite and cravings.

AC: The Power of Appetite Correction (Bert Herring): Gin's favorite book for learning all about the nature of appetite and cravings.

The 5 Second Rule: Transform your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage (Mel Robbins) - Mel Robbin's book teaches you an epic brain trick to stop bad habits and start new effortless habits and life changes, stop fears and worries, and more! Melanie cannot recommend it enough!!

The Paleo Solution: The Original Human Diet (Robb Wolf): The foundational Paleo Bible - Melanie's favorite!

Wired To Eat: Turn Off Cravings, Rewire Your Appetite for Weight Loss, and Determine the Foods That Work for You  (Robb Wolf) : This book goes into great detail about the individuality of glycemic control, and provides a special protocol for determining the best foods for your blood sugar.

The Upside of Stress: Why Stress Is Good for You, and How to Get Good At It  (Kelly McGonigal) : Not all stress is bad for you! Mindset is everything! Stop stressing peops!

The Bulletproof Diet: Lose up to a Pound a Day, Reclaim Energy and Focus, Upgrade Your Life (Dave Asprey): All about the low-carb, mostly whole foods Bulletproof Diet, which seeks to minimize toxins in your diet.

Head Strong: The Bulletproof Plan to Activate Untapped Brain Energy to Work Smarter and Think Faster-in Just Two Weeks (Dave Asprey): A great book if you're obsessed with biohacking (or want to start) and want to rock your mitochondria to supercharge your life.

The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss: (Dr. Jason Fung) A favorite of Gin's, and the fasting community at large! Dr. Fung's Foundational work! This book is what convinced Gin to take up clean fasting.

The Hungry Brain: Outsmarting the Instincts That Make Us Overeat: (Stephan Guyenet) A fantastic book on how the brain's neurological circuits and hypothalamus affect appetite, cravings, satiety, body weight, and more!

In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto (Michael Pollan): Gin loves this book about food's connection to health and longevity. (Michael Pollan is the one who said "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.")

The Diet Myth: The Real Science Behind What We Eat (Tim Spector): Gin loves this book about gut health and what we should eat and why.

The Perfect Health Diet: Regain Health and Lose Weight by Eating the Way You Were Meant to Eat (Paul Jaminet and Shou-Ching Jaminet):  Melanie loves this book which takes a scientific look at which foods perfectly suit our bodies to support health and reverse disease. It's a whole foods, Paleo-ish approach, but with a higher carb intake from sweet fruits and "safe starches."

The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business (Charles Duhigg):  Learn all about the neurological wiring of habits, and how to change them for the better.

The Happiness Project: Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun (Gretchen Rubin):  In this super fun book, Gretchen Rubin retells her experiment to do all the things which supposedly make us "happy"... to see what happens!

The Biology of Belief 10th Anniversary Edition: Unleashing the Power of Consciousness, Matter & Miracles (Bruce H. Lipton):  Written by a scientist,  this looks at how our thoughts and mind shape our body and biology.

The Bone Broth Miracle: How an Ancient Remedy Can Improve Health, Fight Aging, and Boost Beauty(Bruce H. Lipton)  (Ariane Resnick): Chef Ariane Resnick developed the 50 amazing gluten-free recipes for Melanie's new What When Wine book, and this is her own book with ALL the details on bone broth! It makes making bone broth a BREEZE, and includes so many awesome recipes (including bone broth based soups!) 

Gut and Psychology Syndrome: Natural Treatment for Autism, Dyspraxia, A.D.D., Dyslexia, A.D.H.D., Depression, Schizophrenia (Natasha Campbell-McBride): This book details Dr. Campbell-McBridge's GAPS diet - a progressive diet based on bone broths, healthy fatty acids, fermented foods, and well cooked meat and vegetables, to heal the gut (particularly Leaky Gut!), solve digestive issues, and even address neurological problems (Dr. Campbell-McBridge originally developed the diet to address autism.)

The Salt Fix: Why Experts Got It All Wrong - and How Eating More Might Save Your Life (James J. DiNicolantonio): Is current conventional wisdom about salt... wrong? Should you actually embrace salt, not fear it? Get the full history and downlow in this fascinating book!

Brain over Binge: Why I Was Bulimic, Why Conventional Therapy Didn't Work, and How I Recovered for Good (Kathryn Hansen): Even if you don't struggle with binge eating, this is a great book for information on "Rational Reasoning" to deal with cravings and urges. Just say no! (Episode 33)

The Keto Reset Diet: Reboot Your Metabolism in 21 Days and Burn Fat Forever (Mark Sisson) Awesome book for those interested in trying keto! (Episode 33)

Primal Endurance: Escape chronic cardio and carbohydrate dependency and become a fat burning beast! (Mark Sisson) Awesome book for those interested in pairing endurance exercise and a healthy diet! (Episode 35)

The Magnesium Miracle (Second Edition) (Carolyn Dean M.D. N.D): Want to learn more about magnesium? This book has got you covered! (Episode 33)

The Four Tendencies: The Indispensable Personality Profiles That Reveal How to Make Your Life Better (and Other People's Lives Better, Too) (Gretchen Rubin): Learn about four hidden personality types that drive everything we do, so you can further #hack your life performance and understand yourself and others better! (Episode 33)

Hardwiring Happiness: The New Brain Science of Contentment, Calm, and Confidence (Rick Hanson): Learn how to retrain your brain to focus on the good, and cultivate a positive mindset!

Effortless Healing: 9 Simple Ways to Sidestep Illness, Shed Excess Weight, and Help Your Body Fix Itself  (Dr. Joseph Mercola): A great overview of some easily implementable steps for health! 

Healing With Whole Foods: Asian Traditions and Modern Nutrition (3rd Edition) (Paul Pitchford): An AMAZING overview of all things Chinese Medicine for healing yourself with foods. It's got amazing information on food combining, the yin and yang of foods, and just EVERYTHING. Melanie cannot recommend this book enough! It's like a reference manual! 

Healthy Gut, Healthy You  (Dr. Michael Ruscio): An overview of the complexities of the gut microbiome, and how to personally address your digestive issues and health.

The Blue Zones, Second Edition: 9 Lessons for Living Longer From the People Who've Lived the Longest (Dan Buettner): A fascinating look at the diet, habits, and lifestyles of the world's longest lived people.

The Toxin Solution: How Hidden Poisons in the Air, Water, Food, and Products We Us e Are Destroying Our Health--AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO FIX IT (Joseph Pizzorno): A wonderfully thorough exploration on the various environmental and food toxins we're exposed to, how to minimize them, and how to "detox" and get your health back with dietary and lifestyle changes.

Vibe: Unlock the Energetic Frequencies of Limitless Health, Love & Success (Robyn Openshaw): A look at how the energetic frequencies of food affect our health. 

You Can Heal Your Life (Louise Hay), You Can Heal Your Body (Louise Hay): Great books on how changing your mindset can affect your life, health, productivity, body, and more!

The Paleo Cure: Eat Right for Your Genes, Body Type, and Personal Health Needs - Prevent and Reverse Disease, Lose Weight Effortlessly, and Look and Feel Better than Ever (Chris Kresser): A great comprehensive overview of food's effects on the body, inflammation, and health, and how to take your health and life back through dietary changes!

The Longevity Diet: Discover the New Science Behind Stem Cell Activation and Regeneration to Slow Aging, Fight Disease, and Optimize Weight (Dr. Valter Longo): A Comprehensive overview of fasting-expert Dr. Valter Longo's research and philosophies on aging healthier and extending life expectancy. It's medical approach is based on his 5 Pillars of Longevity, where each pillar looks at several key factors that influence our chances of optimal health. The practical application combines a healthy, every day, pescatarian eating plan (the "Longevity Diet") with a 5-day fasting-mimicking diet, or FMD, done intermittently throughout the year.

The Warrior Diet: Switch on Your Biological Powerhouse For High Energy, Explosive Strength, and a Leaner, Harder Body (Ori Hofmekler): Ori Hofmekler’s foundational book on intermittent fasting, including its historical background, and how it benefits the body to make you stronger!

The 7 Principles of Stress: Extend Life, Stay Fit, and Ward Off Fat-What You Didn't Know about How Stress Can Reboot Your Mind, Energy, and Sex Life (Ori Hofmekler): Ori Hofmekler’s latest book, which dives into the intense details of how IF and stress can make you stronger!  This book is EPIC!! Cannot recommend it enough! It will totally alleviate any fasting fears, and help you understand how to grasp resiliency through diet and lifestyle.

Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat: The Secret Science Behind Physical Transformation (Ori Hofmekler): A very detailed look at dietary and exercise principals to build lean, hard muscle for health and longevity.

Unlock Your Muscle Gene: Trigger the Biological Mechanisms That Transform Your Body and Extend Your Life (Ori Hofmekler): Ori Hofmekler’s foundational book on intermittent fasting, including its historical background, and how it benefits the body to make you stronger!

The Anti-Estrogenic Diet: How Estrogenic Foods and Chemicals Are Making You Fat and Sick (Ori Hofmekler): How to boost your health and fitness by addressing your estrogen levels through diet and lifestyle.

The Willpower Instinct: How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do to Get More of It (Kelly McGonigal): A wonderful book on how our brain dictates our behavior, and how you can hack it for ultimate willpower!

The Art of Fermentation: An In-Depth Exploration of Essential Concepts and Processes from around the World (Sandor Elliz Katz). A beautiful comprehensive book detailing the history, art, and chemistry of fermented products, including how to basically ferment ANYTHING yourself. I cannot recommend this book enough! It’s so detailed, fascinating, and simply gorgeous!

Wild Fermentation: The Flavor, Nutrition, and Craft of Live-Culture Foods (Sandor Elliz Katz). An approachable, how-to guide for fermenting #allthethings at home!

Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food (Catherine Shanahan M.D.) Both Gin and Melanie love this book, which goes DEEP into the science of how your health is affected by your genes, environment, eating choices, gut microbiome, and more!

The Healing Power of Essential Oils: Soothe Inflammation, Boost Mood, Prevent Autoimmunity, and Feel Great in Every Way (Eric Zielinski D.C.): A wonderful, comprehensive guide to tackling health issues and living a vibrant life with the use of essential oils. How have we not used these before??

Genius Foods: Become Smarter, Happier, and More Productive While Protecting Your Brain for Life Kindle Edition (Max Lugavere): A wonderful look at how foods affect your brain, and how you can use that to your advantage for epic brain power and longevity!

Dirty Genes: A Breakthrough Program to Treat the Root Cause of Illness and Optimize Your Health (Ben Lynch ND.): This amazing book looks at various genetic SNPs that can affect your mood, energy levels, health, and life. Better yet, it teaches you how to address them with diet, and even better, use them to your advantage!!

The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself Michael A. Singer - Melanie's all time favorite book on mindfulness and how to stop associating your identity with your thoughts. This book could, quite possibly, change your life!!

Wake/Sleep: What to Eat and Do for More Energy and Better Sleep (Ariane Resnick): Filled with recipes for food and DIY health and beauty treatments, Wake/Sleep is two books in one: one half has advice and tips on staying alert and energetic, but turn the book over and discover the best ways to calm down, relax, and fall asleep.

KetoFast: Rejuvenate Your Health with a Step-by-Step Guide to Timing Your Ketogenic Meals (Dr. Joseph Mercola) : A guide to using the principles of ketogenic eating, meal planning, and timing to treat disease, promote weight loss, and optimize health. This book is seriously FANTASTIC!!

Healing Lyme: Natural Healing of Lyme Borreliosis and the Coinfections Chlamydia and Spotted Fever Rickettsiosis (Stephen Harrod Buhner): Stephen Buhner's foundational work on Lyme disease reveals the scientific workings of the Lyme bacteria in the human body, and how to construct an herbal protocol to conquer the bacteria and regain health. The audiobook is narrated by Melanie!

Switch On Your Brain: The Key to Peak Happiness, Thinking, and Health (Dr. Caroline Leaf): Written by a cognitive neuroscientist, this book explores how your thoughts change the manifestation of your genes and cells! It provides guidance for better health and wholeness through correct thinking patterns.

Think and Eat Yourself Smart: A Neuroscientific Approach to a Sharper Mind and Healthier Life (Dr. Caroline Leaf): Learn how your thoughts affect how food affects you, why there is no one "right" diet, and the importance of certain food choices for health.

Switch On Your Brain: The Key to Peak Happiness, Thinking, and Health (Dr. Caroline Leaf): Written by a cognitive neuroscientist, this book explores how your thoughts change the manifestation of your genes and cells! It provides guidance for better health and wholeness through correct thinking patterns.

The Longevity Solution: Rediscovering Centuries-Old Secrets to a Healthy, Long Life (Dr. Jason Fung and Dr. James DiNicolantonio): An exploration of how dietary and lifestyle factors - including types and amounts of protein, polyphenols, calories, fasting, coffee, tea, and wine - affect longevity!

The Diabetes Code (Dr. Jason Fung): An extensive overview of the role of insulin, carbs, fasting, and other factors in diabetes and the metabolic syndrome.


Never Binge Again(tm): Reprogram Yourself to Think Like a Permanently Thin Person(tm). Stop Overeating and Binge Eating and Stick to the Food Plan of Your Choice! (Livingston Ph.D, Glenn): This book is fantastic for understand how the voice in your head wanting to eat #allthethings, is not YOU, and you CAN say no!

Stress Less, Accomplish More: Meditation for Extraordinary Performance (Emily Fletcher): Learn how to easily meditate for 15 minutes 2 times a day! If you've found meditation intimidating or ineffective, this is the book for you!!

The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up (Marie Kondo): Learn how to declutter your space and life!

Live in the Balance: The Ground-Breaking East-West Nutrition Program (Linda Prout): This wonderful book provides an easy, approachable and scientific overview of Traditional Chinese Medicine, including the appropriate foods for correct your condition, and getting back into the balance of health! (Audioboook narrated by Melanie Coming Soon!)

Lifespan: Why We Age—and Why We Don't Have To (David Sinclair): David Sinclair's groundbreaking universal theory on aging explores how a loss of information in our genes leads to aging, and how sirtuins and epigenetic expression (influenced by things like diet, lifestyle, fasting, and more) may stop and even reverse again!

You Are the Placebo: Making Your Mind Matter (Joe Dispenza): Learn about the powerful affect of the placebo effect, and how our minds can change our bodies on a cellular level. https://amzn.to/30aH49V

The Paleo Thyroid Solution: Stop Feeling Fat, Foggy, And Fatigued At The Hands Of Uninformed Doctors - Reclaim Your Health! (Elle Russ): A detailed, thorough look at the thyroid - particularly hypothyroidism - and how to interpret your hormones and fix things once and for all! 

The Little Book of Big Change: The No-Willpower Approach to Breaking Any Habit (Amy Johnson, PHD) No matter what your bad habit is, you have the power to change it. Drawing on a powerful combination of neuroscience and spirituality, this book will show you that you are not your habits. Rather, your habits and addictions are the result of simple brain wiring that is easily reversed. By learning to stop bad habits at the source, you will take charge of your habits and addictions for good. If you want to understand the science behind your habit, make the decision to end it, and commit to real, lasting change, this book will help you to finally take charge of your life―once and for all.

Metabolic Autophagy: Practice Intermittent Fasting and Resistance Training to Build Muscle and Promote Longevity (Siim Land)  If you want the deep science of what happens on a cellular level especially when it comes to fasting and autophagy, this book is for you!

Rebuild Your Bones: The 12-Week Osteoporosis Protocol (Mira and Jaysen Calton): The health of your bones is so important, and so complicated! This book looks at the role of nutrition in bone health, and how dietary and lifestyle changes can help you restore and rebuild your bones!




AUDIBLE AUDIOBOOKS (Get One Month Free!)

Audible is Melanie's well-known secret for reading #allthebooks #allthetime! Audible provides the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet, in every genre! With Audible, you can listen on any device, anytime, anywhere! We're obsessed! Audible members can choose 3 titles every month (1 audiobook and 2 Audible Originals), with rollover credits, easy exchanges, discounts on titles beyond credits, and audiobooks you'll keep forever! Go To Audible.com/IFPODCAST Or Text IFPODCAST To 500500 For A 30 Day Free Trial, Including A Free Audiobook!

BATH AND BEAUTY

Melanie's DIY Makeup Setting Spray: Just fill one of these adorable glass bottles with half water, half plain witch hazel. Spray on your face after applying your make-up, and your make-up will stay fresh all day! Plus, it's great for your skin, with no toxins!

Bali Secrets Natural DeodroantA fantastic all natural, aluminum free organic (wet) deodorant with minimal ingredients.

Green Tidings All Natural Deodorant: A fantastic all natural, aluminum free organic (dry) deodorant with minimal ingredients.



PET STUFF

Check out episode 22 for our epic discussion of IF and pets! Long story short, IF may be ok for dogs, but probably not cats, In any case, a ton of modern pet food today is likely downright toxic to our dear animals 🙁 Try out these brands below.

Primal Pets Freeze Dried Pet FoodSimply add water to these these dehydrated, raw nugets if you want to feed your pets super natural, clean food mimicking their natural diet... without having to blend up your own raw meat yourself.

Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Dry Cat Food: A great limited ingredient, grain-free dry pet food.

Feline Pine Cat Litter: Melanie loves this litter! It smells like a beautiful pine forest and doesn't track!

RED LIGHT THERAPY (JOOVV + Free Gift!)

JOOVV: These amazing, affordable at-home red light therapy infrared devices are EPIC for health, inflammation, water retention, skin tightening, sleep, cellular rejuvenation, and so much more! Using the devices can seriously transform your skin and overall health! Melanie has the mini, and keeps it on her desk while working during the day. She's a bit obsessed!!  Plus, they have a full money back guarantee! Nothing to lose, and *SO* much to gain! If you use the link joovv.com/ifpodcast with the code IFPODCAST, you'll receive a free gift from Joovv!

INSIDE TRACKER

Inside Tracker provides start to finish blood tests, with personalized, detailed, easy-to-understand analysis and recommendations! It's the Ultimate Tool In Biohacking!
Get 30% Off SITE WIDE at melanieavalon.com/getinsidetracker with the code MELANIE30.

CLEAN AIR - MOLEKULE

MOLEKULE: Clean air is vital for health! Molekule air purifiers actually work on molecule level (thus the name!) to eliminate - not just mask or neutralize - indoor air pollution, including pollutants 1000 times smaller than traditional HEPA filters! Say goodbye to viruses, mold, airborne chemicals, bacteria, and allergens! After all, if you’re breathing clearer with serrapeptase, don’t you want to breath cleaner air to boot? GO TO MOLEKULE.COM AND USE THE CODE ifpodcast10 AT CHECKOUT FOR 10% OFF YOUR FIRST ORDER!

OTHER

IBOTTA: This awesome app lets you get cash back for things you're already buying anyway! For example, if you ever order from Amazon, you can go through the Ibotta app, and get an additional 3-10% off of lots of things! You can also scan your receipts when you get home from shopping for more cash back, at stores everywhere! It's totally free, super easy, and really adds up! Use the link https://ibotta.com/r/bqcgyim to sign up, or with Melanie's referral code bqcgyim, for an instant $10. So basically... join Melanie's team and get $10!

Vibration Machines: These machines are fantastic for passive exercise, lymph stimulation, and detox! Gin and Melanie both have the large but totally affordable Confidence Fitness Platform Fitness Machine, while Melanie also has the LifePro Power Plate Exercise Machine for under her desk!

Cell Spa Ionic Detox Machine Foot Bath Aqua Spa Cleanse: Melanie loves this machine to draw toxins out of your body by ionizing your system. It's effective at drawing out heavy metals and other toxins! You can use it with this Ivation Foot Spa Massager for a comforting, warming, massaging, DETOXING foot bath! 

Terrain Mat: Terrain mats are great to put on your desk to keep you active and moving at a desk job!

VIVO White Height Adjustable 36 inch Stand up Desk Converter : This is a fantastic hack for an affordable standing desk!



Varidesk Active Chair: I adore this active chair! You can lean against it to "stand" while working. You can also sit on it, but it swivels around -keeping you active. It's the best, and goes great with the standing desk above!

Pavlok: Want to break a bad habit? This Pavlok wristband is SUPER effective!! It uses small (but not unbearable) shocks to rewire your brain to associate bad habits as bad things, making you literally have no urge to do them! You can use it for anything, from cravings to negative thoughts to quitting smoking, to anything! Super recommended. Plus it's got a 100% money back guarantee, which is what convinced Melanie to try it out originally 🙂 (Episode 33)

Ankle And Wrist Weights: Why go to the gym when you can engage in "functional" exercise? Simply wear these weights while doing housework, shopping, cooking, or whatever, and support muscle mass, no gym needed!

M Berry: This makes sour things taste sweet! It's so weird!!

Like A Glove Measuring Leggings: Gin has these "smart" leggings which measure you!

Balance Seat: This nifty addition to seat makes you constantly unbalanced, so you strengthen your core! This is great especially if you have a desk job!

Zand Herbal Lozenge, MentholNeed some lozenges for your fast? These are fairly free of additives, with no sweet taste, and pretty effective! 

Ergonomic Vertical MouseSwitching to a vertical mouse can really alleviate stress on your hand at the computer. Love it!!

Law Of Attraction Planner: Melanie's FAVORITE planner. It helps you effortlessly keep track of long term AND short term goals, daily tasks, habits, etc. It also has affirmations, motivations, visualizations, and just #allthethings. Cannot recommend enough!! Use the code LOA10OFF for 10% off!

Dr. Mercola Earthing Universal Mat: Use this mat to transfer free electrons from the Earth into your body! This is super important these days, since we often no longer walk barefoot outside, and are often also chained to our electric-disturbing desks and computers! A grounding mat provides the  same negatively-charged electrical potential as the Earth, and can be great for health, healing, sleep, inflammation, and so many other things!

The Wave by PureWine - Removes Both Histamines & Sulfite Preservatives, By-the-Bottle or By-The-Glass!

Zebra Glitter Highlighter- As discussed on episode 100, these are life changing. Instant joy and happiness every time you use them!!

LandKissing® Grounding Mats Kit: Melanie loves these grounding mats, which she tested with her EMF meter, and they WORK. They can help mitigate all the electric currents we’re exposed to, and bring the beneficial healing nature of the ground to your indoors!

EARTHLING 3.0 - Erthe Athletic Grounding Shoe Strap: Get the grounding benefits of walking barefoot, while still wearing shoes!

We only list products throughout this website that we genuinely use and love. Some of the links are affiliate links, which simply means, if you decide to purchase through the links, we may receive a small percentage which can help make our podcast possible.