Welcome to Episode 213 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle.
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Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 213 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting? Then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment., pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
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One more thing before we jump in. Are you concerned about aging? Well, thankfully, fasting is super incredible for its anti-aging benefits. It activates genes in your body called sirtuins, which repair your body and help extend lifespan. Also, during the fast, your body can clean up a lot of harmful chemicals which may be taxing your detoxification systems. In fact, the reason people go gray is because their detox systems start producing a lot of hydrogen peroxide when dealing with toxins. Do you know where a lot of those chemicals come from? Your skincare and makeup. As it turns out, there are thousands of compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup that Europe has banned due to their toxic nature and the US has banned less than 10. When you put these on your skin every single day through your skincare and makeup, you're adding to your body's burden and likely aging your skin faster.
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Hi, everybody and welcome, this is Episode 213 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.
Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.
Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?
Gin Stephens: Well, I'm doing great. I'm very excited that our backyard remodel is starting to finally-- they're now starting to build back instead of just remove.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, that is exciting.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, because they did all the demo, which was insane. Taking out the old broken pool is a lot of work. Yeah, they took it all out, they took out the rotten deck, we had stuff that needed to be-- it needed work. Starting fresh, they had to bring in a bunch of dirt. The new pool is actually in the hole, which is exciting. We got a fiberglass pool and it's small. The guy who delivered it from Tennessee said, “This is the smallest pool I've ever delivered.”
Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?
Gin Stephens: Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: What made you decide to do a small one?
Gin Stephens: Well, it's what's considered a dunk pool these days. Actually, it's 16 feet long by 9 feet, 16x9, which is plenty big. We don't want the whole backyard to be pool. It's going to have a water feature going into it like a waterfall. Fiberglass is a really durable finish for a pool, you don't have to replaster it, that sort of thing. It's just going to be a nice little place. You can hop in on a hot day, cool off, but it won't need as much maintenance, it won't need as many chemicals, it won't need as much everything. We're not going to be training for the Olympics in there. Also, I have realized that I'm so excited about?
Melanie Avalon: What?
Gin Stephens: You know how I like to be warm?
Melanie Avalon: Yes.
Gin Stephens: Because it's small, it's going to be warmer than a big pool.
Melanie Avalon: That's nice.
Gin Stephens: I'm so excited.
Melanie Avalon: Are you going to get it heated?
Gin Stephens: Yes, we do have a pool heater, so we'll be able to heat it like-- I'm not going to say we're going to heat it 12 months out of the year. What's funny is the evolution of the project, when we decided to demo the old pool, because it was going to cost more to fix it than we wanted to put into it. Which I know sounds crazy, take out a pool, put in a pool, but the cost of redoing an old huge pool is extensive.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I can imagine.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, and the maintenance is ongoing. My original thought was why don't we just get a really big hot tub? They had the big spas, and you don't have to turn the heat on, you could use it as like a little pool in the summer. Let's just get a really big hot tub. Then, that kind of morphed into a really small pool. [laughs] But we'll be able to warm it up.
Melanie Avalon: Is it going to be saltwater?
Gin Stephens: Yes, it will be saltwater. We'll be able to keep it warm. Like I said, I don't know that it'll be 12 months out of the year, but let's say we're having an unseasonably warm November, I can heat it up and go out there and get in the water and it won't cost a million dollars to heat it.
Melanie Avalon: You could also make it an ice bath.
Gin Stephens: I could. That's true. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: On the flip side of things.
Gin Stephens: On the flip side, yeah, I'm not going to make it an ice bath, but I could, if I wanted to. I'm really excited. They have put the foundation in for the screened porch. I have not had a screen porch since we moved into this house in 2019, and I miss it. We had a screen porch in our other house. It's going to be really nice. I cannot wait.
Melanie Avalon: I want to see pictures.
Gin Stephens: All right, right now, it's like a big dirt hall with a cinderblock foundation and the pool is just sitting in a dirt hole. So many decisions, like what do you do for your pool deck? Chad is not good at decisions. Let me just tell you, he's not good.
Melanie Avalon: So, do you make the decisions?
Gin Stephens: Yes, but I have to let him be involved and then we do what I wanted to do, but it takes a long time to get to where I wanted to be and so I have to get there. I know what we're going to do.
Melanie Avalon: Right. Do you narrow down it to a few options?
Gin Stephens: Well, yeah. We've been married for almost 30 years, so I know how to play the game [laughs] now. We're going to go with the item I have chosen and he's going to like it, and it is the one he would like the best, and I know that. I just had to get him there. It's like when we go out to eat, and he's trying to decide what to pick off the menu. I already know what he's going to like and I know what he's not going to like. Sometimes, he'll pick the thing I know he's not going to like, and I'm like, “All right, you shouldn't have picked that,” and I was right. [laughs] But you could get to know someone better than they know themselves.
Melanie Avalon: It's so funny. [laughs] Oh, my goodness.
Gin Stephens: Please don't pick that dinner, anyway. Yeah, good times.
Melanie Avalon: Do you pretty much when you go to dinners end up liking what you order?
Gin Stephens: Oh, I always do.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, me too.
Gin Stephens: Because I very carefully choose what I'm going to get.
Melanie Avalon: Me too. I'm very, very specific. That may look picky, but I always end up liking it and everybody's happy.
Gin Stephens: Yeah. Now if I order a steak, for example, and I order it medium rare on the rare side and it comes back and it's well done, even if it was medium, I'll send that back. I'm not much of a person who will send back, but I will if the steak is overdone.
Melanie Avalon: We might have talked about this already. I'm still trying to figure out how to get like an actual rare steak. They just don't do it.
Gin Stephens: I like medium rare, so if I order rare, it's always fine.
Melanie Avalon: I like blue.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, I don't want it to be that rare. If you order rare, it will come out rare to medium rare.
Melanie Avalon: I've started eating raw steaks at home.
Gin Stephens: Okay, that's a lot of information. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: I was slicing it-- Okay. [laughs] Okay, wait, let me backtrack.
Gin Stephens: You get in your sauna that's like a coffin. You're eating raw meat. Are you a vampire? [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Maybe. Okay, to clarify a little bit. Like at the grass-fed steaks, I was like, “Oh, I can make carpaccio,” because you slice it really thin, but then what ended up happening was I just would end up eating the whole thing. I was like, “Oh, okay.” It's like if you slice it, you ate carpaccio, but if you don't slice it, then you ate a raw steak.
Gin Stephens: I mean, there's really no difference. You're exactly right, between carpaccio and just eating the steak. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: When you slice it like carpaccio, though, it's really easy to eat compared to when you don't.
Gin Stephens: Now I will say this. Okay, interesting point. I do like cold meat. When I was at the beach with my sister recently, we went out to eat, and I ordered a rare steak, and it was really good, but I could only eat half of it. She was going home the next day, and I was staying one more day. I'm like, “Well, I'll just eat this later.” You're not going to reheat a steak that's already been cooked, so I ate it cold. I really enjoy a leftover steak cold. That sounds weird, but it's probably the same thing as what you're doing. It's got a different kind of experience. All right. I kind of almost did the same thing.
Melanie Avalon: It is funny though, if you think about it. We categorize things in our head differently, like the carpaccio versus raw steak.
Gin Stephens: That's true. I made a carpaccio, a thick-sliced carpaccio. [laughs] My carpaccio was one-inch thick.
Melanie Avalon: Oh.
Gin Stephens: No, I'm just saying, that's what you did.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. Yes. That's funny.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, that works.
Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. Now, I'm hungry.
Gin Stephens: Yeah. I haven't opened my window. Yeah, I'll probably do that after this. I got to get back to writing though. [sighs] Getting close to that deadline.
Melanie Avalon: It's crazy, crazy, crazy. I'm actually getting delivered on Saturday a mirror.
Gin Stephens: The exercise thing?
Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.
Gin Stephens: Very cool.
Melanie Avalon: I'm very excited.
Gin Stephens: Are they going to be sponsoring your podcast?
Melanie Avalon: No.
Gin Stephens: You just ordered it.
Melanie Avalon: No. [laughs] They're giving it to me.
Gin Stephens: Okay. That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon: I'm really excited. Well, shall we jump into everything for today?
Gin Stephens: Yes, we shall. All right. We've got some feedback from Danielle and the subject is, “Thanks.” She said, “No question, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for the podcast. I started listening on a Saturday and had enough information by Monday to start IF the right way. I listen every day and I feel like I have my own personal coaches to guide me along the way. Every time I have a question, it seems to be answered in the next episode. Keep up the great work. Thanks again.”
Melanie Avalon: You're welcome, Danielle. Thank you. [laughs]
Gin Stephens: Yeah, I love that too. Somebody in Delay, Don’t Deny Social Network said, just this past week, she asked a question-- I have an Ask Gin Group that people can ask me anything. She asked me the question, then I answered it. Then she said, as a follow-up, she's like, “Oh, I just listened to episode, I can't remember what it was. Someone asked the almost exact same question. You gave exactly the same answer.” [laughs] I'm like, “See?” That made me happy. Yeah. Well, I mean, I did have a lot of practice with all those years in the Facebook group. I mean, how many hundreds of thousands of questions have I answered, and how many of them were unique questions versus the same question over and over again?
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, there are many, many questions. It is nice to see though that I thought about this a lot like even since writing What When Wine, because I'll think about different topics and what I wrote about initially in that book. I'm pretty sure I still pretty much agree with everything I wrote in that book. I was thinking about it recently with the cholesterol stuff. I was like, “Oh, I wonder what I said about cholesterol when I wrote it then.” I'm, of course, always open to change. It is nice when things seem to be consistent. That's true.
Gin Stephens: I've gone back and looked at Delay, Don’t Deny, which I wrote in 2016, which is a long time ago. I have so much more experience now. I had only been in maintenance for just over a year when I wrote Delay, Don’t Deny. I've gone back and looked at it, and I'm like, “Wow, I can't believe I said this back in 2016. Go me.” [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: I’d be curious, I should revisit my book and see if I have changed my mind substantially on anything.
Gin Stephens: That would be interesting. I still would like to republish Delay, Don’t Deny, an updated version, be a little more specific about the clean fast, use the words ‘clean fast,’ because I did not we had not invented those words yet in 2016. I didn't say the word ‘clean fast’ a single time because we weren't using that terminology till 2017, which is so interesting. Then also, I would like to have an updated testimonial section. I've talked about this before on other podcasts because reading the testimonial section is so interesting, because obviously no one had read Delay, Don’t Deny yet because it wasn’t out. The testimonial section is a hodgepodge of just really any kind of fasting I could cobble together. Anyone who had fasted-- they weren't following my method, because my method was not out there. They're just people that I connected with through fasting groups. Some of the [unintelligible [00:16:51] are interesting, and not what I would recommend.
Melanie Avalon: I remember talking about that on one of our episodes, somebody had asked a question about one of the testimonials.
Gin Stephens: Right, and so it's interesting, I would like to revise that section. So, hopefully one day I would like to do it with a traditional publisher one day, we'll see how that goes.
Melanie Avalon: Fingers crossed.
Gin Stephens: Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: Speaking of fasting, that is a big update. Tomorrow's the recording for Dave Asprey-
Gin Stephens: Oh, that's fun.
Melanie Avalon: -conference.
Gin Stephens: Which will already have happened by the time people hear this episode.
Melanie Avalon: I wonder if they'll have a-- they probably won't, the ability to re-watch afterwards. It's a biohacking conference, though. Not fasting specifically, but it's very exciting.
Gin Stephens: Fasting is a biohack. Although we talked about this before, and you said you didn't think it was, I still do. I still do, sorry. Well, I have to agree to disagree.
Melanie Avalon: Semantics. Shall we jump into our questions?
Gin Stephens: Yes.
Melanie Avalon: All right, so to start things off, we have a question from Liz, the subject is “Update and a New Question.” Liz says, “Hi, Melanie and Gin. First off, I wanted to start by thanking you for answering my questions in Episode 208. I've continued to binge listen to the IF podcast and am up to Episode 171. On Mondays, I usually listen to at least three episodes. The episode released that day and two previous episodes while I am traveling to and from and in between sites for work. I was totally shocked to hear my questions answered so quickly after I submitted them. Only a month and two days wait. I loved how in answering my initial questions, Melanie suggested many products that I have already purchased throughout the past six weeks based on suggestions in previous episodes, i.e., BiOptimizer’s Masszymes, HCL, P3-OM and the Food Sense app.” Oh, that makes me really happy. She says, “I've also bought a Joovv, a Life Pro vibration plate, and a yearly membership to Gin's Delay, Don’t Deny Social Setwork, so proud to be a founding member.”
Gin Stephens: Yay.
Melanie Avalon: “I'm with you Gin. The IF lifestyle isn't faring to be so cheap for me given all of the good food and tools I have added to my longevity toolbox.”
Gin Stephens: The good news is the money you save on foods, you can spend on other things. [laughs] Right? I know it's not cheap for her because she's bought all these tools and better food, so it balances out. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: The money you save on them, not eaten meals, you can put towards the eaten meals.
Gin Stephens: The better food and the tools. Exactly.
Melanie Avalon: And save on healthcare costs.
Gin Stephens: Absolutely. Yes, I think so.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'll plug it again. I talked about it last episode, but I'm really getting an appreciation of healthcare cost reading Dr. Robert Lustig’s Metabolical and where money is spent and how much things cost in the system.
Gin Stephens: Oh, it is crazy. The system is crazy. Chad just had to have something removed from his dermatologist on his leg and then they sent it off for testing to make sure it wasn't skin cancer. They sent it to a non-network lab without even telling him or asking him or anything. He got this bill for thousands of dollars, it's a crazy bill. He's like, “What?” They're like, “Sorry, not covered, out of network.” He's like, “How could I have possibly prevented that from happening?” He called and everything got worked out and they just-- whatever. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: One of the things he talks about in the book is the problem that comes in where things become unaffordable for people that have become mandatory for life. Insulin, EpiPens, things like that. It's a system that we've become locked into, that feeds on itself and feeds on disease. It can only exist as long as we're sick. Not to sound conspiratorial, but if we were all healthy, or didn't need prescription medication, there would be no industry.
Gin Stephens: Well, that's true. Dun, dun, dun.
Melanie Avalon: Ominous music cue. Liz says, “To update you on my previous questions, BiOptimizers products have helped my digestion TREMENDOUSLY.” That's an all caps. She says, “I love the Wade and Matt episode so much, I rarely experienced bloating after eating now. Wearing the CGM also affirmed Melanie's thoughts that I would be less worried about my blood glucose levels after observing the normal fluctuations. I'm no longer testing blood ketones, but I did purchase a Keyto Breath Sensor based on a suggestion, and Melanie's Lumen Biosense and CGMs Facebook group. It has been so encouraging to see that I can be in high ketosis even after only 12 hours of fasting. According to the readings on the keto sensor.” Really quick tangent, there might have been something. Somebody sent me a message on Instagram the other day, and they had a Biosense ketone measure and then they had the Lumen device which measures carb or fat burning, it doesn't measure ketones. For listeners, it measures CO2 levels in your breath to tell you if you're burning carbs or fat. She was so confused. She said that the Lumen said she was burning fat, but the Biosense was not registering ketones, and she could not understand how she could be burning fat and not burning ketones. I just bring that up because I still just think this is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. We've talked about it a lot in recent podcasts, but you can burn fat without burning ketones. I just want to drill that into people's heads because I think so many people think you only burn fat when you're in ketosis, which is just not the case.
Anyways, back to the question. Liz says, “Now to my question, I've made terrific progress in the past six weeks, five days. Thanks to your wonderful guidance, I lost eight pounds following a 20:4 one meal a day protocol, and the first four weeks, and have lost an additional two pounds following a 4:3 protocol the past three weeks. I'm hoping to lose another 10 to 15 pounds to be at the mid-range BMI for my height. My goal weight is the same way I was in high school and college, after I lost the freshman 15 in my junior year. I'm 45 years old and I've not been at my goal weight since I gave birth to my first child nearly 10 years ago. After my second child, while I lost weight initially after giving birth in 2017, I never got down to my goal weight. My weight has since crept up during COVID. Once I hit a BMI of 27.2, I knew it was time for a change. How feasible is it for me to reach my high school/college weight living an IF lifestyle? Am I chasing a pipe dream given that I am in perimenopause? Thanks again for sharing all of your knowledge. While I'm not a big fan of cruises, I always joke that they are like prisons with the possibility of drowning. I do hope to get the chance to attend a Delay, Don’t Deny cruise someday once life gets back to normal, whatever that is.”
Gin Stephens: Well, I love hearing that, Liz. Let me speak to the cruise first. We planned one obviously for 2020, that was cancelled because all cruises were canceled. Then, we optimistically, at that time, which was March of 2020 when we were all still very optimistic. Remember those days, Melanie?
Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.
Gin Stephens: We planned one for June of 2021. That one also got canceled, although they are running some cruises. Personally, I've decided I am not willing to go on a cruise until we're not wearing masks and back to normal, being able to hug people. I don't know if that's ever again. If cruises are now a masked thing, I can't think of anything that sounds less fun, being packed into a cruise ship because it's hard enough, it's a small ship. I love being on a cruise ship. I don't think I would love it with COVID precautions. If we don't ever get back to society where things were normal, which terrifies me as a human who's 51 years old and doesn't want to have to learn a whole new way of living, we'll have to make a plan for doing something that's land based. One day, there'll be an event. Will it be a cruise? Will it be land based? I don't know. We'll just have to see. The reason we do cruises, they are just such an affordable vacation. You can spend a whole lot more on a land-based trip than on a cruise because cruises are just you can travel and the rooms that are inside rooms and you can make a very economical trip. I wanted more people to have the chance to go. If you want to travel in a suite on a cruise ship, you can. You can spend more and have a more upscale vacation, or you can really go on a budget. That's what I love about cruises. They fit all the budgets.
Anyway, back to the question. Can Liz go back to her high school college weight living an intermittent fasting lifestyle? I think the answer to that is a resounding yes. Especially since she says that she got back to that weight when she was about 35 after having her first child. If you can get back there at 35, I think you can get back there later. One caveat. If you're in perimenopause, it might not happen till you're on the other side of menopause because this hormonal change is really no joke. If all you can do during the perimenopausal, menopausal transition is maintain, that is a victory, because a lot of women gain weight. In fact, most women gain weight over the menopausal transition. So, if you maintain, you're winning. Then, once you get to the other side, maybe you'll lose the rest of the weight then. That's just something to keep in mind. Yeah, hormones are no joke.
We're actually, Melanie, talking to Dr. Anna Cabeca on Wednesday for the Life Lessons podcast, I'm so excited.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, really?
Gin Stephens: Yeah. Let's see-- Oh, this is great timing because this episode that we're recording today comes out May 17th, and we're recording a two-part episode with Dr. Cabeca for Life Lessons, and the first one will come out May-- what is that? 19th. If somebody is listening right now, two days from now, you can hear on Life Lessons, we're going to talk to Dr. Anna Cabeca about the menopausal transition, women's hormones. then the week after that, which is May 26th, we're going to talk about sexual health for females.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow.
Gin Stephens: I know. I look forward to talking to her. We're not talking about fasting. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: That will actually be between the two of us, probably like the fifth interview with her because I think she's been on my show twice. She's been on IF Podcast--
Gin Stephens: Twice. We had her on our show twice.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, she's been on IF Podcast twice, my show once. Okay.
Gin Stephens: There'll be a total of five Anna Cabeca episodes. She's wonderful. I'm really looking forward to that. Anyway, we'll talk to her. She's obviously an OB/GYN and female hormone expert, so I look forward to that. This period of time is really no joke. We have a lot of questions as women because it's not something that we've openly talked about, historically, the hormonal transition, it's all shrouded in mystery.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. That's exciting. I'm going to listen to that episode.
Gin Stephens: All right. So, yeah, we'll have two parts.
Melanie Avalon: Awesome.
Gin Stephens: We're glad Liz is doing so well. Also, Liz, I'm so glad that you're in the Delay, Don’t Deny Social Network.
Melanie Avalon: Yep. She's in all the groups. I was laughing during it in my head, because it sounds like we wrote this to talk about all the things that we love, because she loves all the things.
Gin Stephens: Didn't we get one review one time which said we make up things?
Melanie Avalon: That's what I was laughing about.
Gin Stephens: We don't, I promise. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: One time, we got an email saying that we make up emails from listeners, and I laugh thinking about it. [laughs] Listeners, I do not have time to make up fake emails. [laughs] It's way too much effort.
Gin Stephens: That is so funny. If we were going to make up a fake email, I would have said that, but we did not, and I know who Liz’s because I've actually interacted with her in the Social Network.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, you have?
Gin Stephens: Yes. Her question was also on last week, and now her name is in my head. Yep. Just today, she posted something in the Ask Gin Group, and I responded to her. Liz is real.
Melanie Avalon: She's a real person.
Gin Stephens: She's a real person. We have now talked on the network.
Melanie Avalon: A resource for listeners if they would like to get that Lumen device. The link for it is melanieavalon.com/lumen, and the coupon code, MELANIEAVALON25, gets you $25 off. Then, that Lumen Biosense CGM community that she talks about, you can join that.
Gin Stephens: Melanie, unless it's all fake. The DDD Social Network is also, all just me.
Melanie Avalon: Every single person, and every single person in my IF Biohackers Facebook group is not real. Oh, man. That would require a lot of effort.
Gin Stephens: It would require a lot of effort. I can't even imagine, unless it was artificial intelligence or something.
Melanie Avalon: Good times.
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We have a question from Rebecca.
Gin Stephens: All right, and the subject is, “What's with the weak stomach?” She says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. before I get into my question, I want to thank you ladies for changing my life. I am 27 and had struggled with yo-yo dieting and binge eating for six years. Watching the scale creep up year after year was devastating and it felt like there was nothing I could do to stop it. Then, about a year ago, I experienced some hardships and turn to food to cope. I indulged in all my cravings and binged almost every day on garbage food. I gained 35 pounds in six months and I was already overweight. I remember feeling so helpless and thinking, ‘Okay, I'm giving up. I'll just be fat forever.’ Then, I stumbled upon intermittent fasting. The first few tries were unsuccessful until I found this podcast. Listening to you ladies gave me the support, knowledge, and motivation that I needed to stick with it. In five months of IFing I lost 48 pounds, I definitely still have some weight to lose, but I have not felt this good in a long time. I now have a healthy relationship with food. I've noticed incredible changes in my body not just weight loss. Not to mention the massively positive effect it has had on my mental health. I finally feel free.
Now on to my question. The only negative I have found with IF is that I now have a “weak stomach.” If I see something gross on TV, or if someone is talking about something gross, I can't handle it anymore and feel I'm going to gag or throw up. I know this may seem silly, but I never had this issue until I started IF. I'd say it started around month two, it happens both in the fed and fasted state. What the heck is going on? Why do I now have a weak stomach? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Any research on the subject? Any tips to stop this nonsense? Anyway, thank you so much for everything. Please just keep doing what you're doing and spreading the word about this wonderful lifestyle. Sending positive vibes your way, Rebecca.”
Melanie Avalon: All right, Rebecca. Well, thank you so much for your question. I really liked this question. I don't think we've ever had this specific question before. Okay, I sat down to research this and just trying to research intermittent fasting and nausea, when you go that route, you pretty much get a lot of things just talking about people, like contraindications for fasting and if you get nauseous while fasting, stop fasting type thing. Which was not really what I was looking for, because Rebecca's question is, she's not saying that she eats fast and gets nauseous. Is she fast and sees a trigger for nausea, so something that grosses her out and then feels nauseous when in the past she didn't.
A different route and researched fasting and the role of preop and postop and nausea responses in surgery because I was thinking, okay, maybe a correlation to this would be exposing the body to something that would make it nauseous. Does fasting make you more or less likely to be nauseous? I think that will probably correlate to our question, but just surgery, obviously, can create nausea to probably a much greater extent than what Rebecca is seeing. In any case--
Gin Stephens: Anesthesia makes me super nauseous.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's an example. They'll often give you antinausea medications with those procedures for that very reason. This actually might be something that I haven't changed my mind about from the book, but I think the only time I mention, I don't know if I mention it in What When Wine, but I do talk about the role of fasting and chemotherapy. There are studies showing that fasting tends to help with chemotherapy outcomes and the nausea. In my head, I was thinking that fasting will probably be supportive of not getting nauseous, but actually, there's a lot of studies and I'll put links in the show notes to them. Some of the studies for example was Shortened preoperative fasting for prevention of complications associated with-- this was a very intense one, laparoscopic cholecystectomy: A meta-analysis. The effect of preparative solid foods status on the occurrence of nausea, vomiting, and aspiration symptoms and enhanced CT examinations, post-operative nausea and vomiting. A simple yet complex problem, post-operative fastening abbreviation and its effects on post-operative nausea and vomiting incidents, and gynecological surgery patients. I’ll stop now, there's even more. Oh, relationship between preoperative time of fasting and postoperative nausea and vomiting.
There's actually a lot of research on this. it was not what I think. Although it might explain Rebecca's question. Most of the studies on it find either no correlation, so fasting doesn't seem to help either way with nausea. Or, some of them do find that fasting makes the nausea worse. In some of the trials, when they have shortened fasting times or if they prefeed with carbs before the surgery, the postop nausea is significantly reduced. What I'm thinking might be going on with Rebecca is, and this is just me theorizing, but it sounds like for some people, fasting makes the body, if exposed to a trigger for nausea, more likely to get nauseated. That's my thoughts on that. Gin?
Gin Stephens: I don't know that I would use that surgical medical kind of stuff because those aren't people who are living in intermittent fasting lifestyle, they're just fasting before a procedure, so they don't throw up in the middle of surgery and aspirate. They're not fat adapted. I'm just not sure that's a good state to compare. You know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon: I think it probably is, because, I know for me, I'm more likely to get nauseous while fasted than not. My visceral experience of that is that when I'm exposed to a nausea trigger when I'm fasted, it's more likely to affect me than if I have food.
Gin Stephens: I understand that if it was just in the fasted state-- I remember when I was pregnant, I had morning sickness, and the only thing I could do is keep food in my stomach to keep from being nauseous. I do get that part of it. She said she's experiencing it in the fed and the fasted state, both times, that's the part--
Melanie Avalon: Oh, I missed that.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, it happens both in the fed and the fasted state. I don't know why she would be nauseous in the fed state.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, that is weird.
Gin Stephens: Right. That's why I don't understand why that might-- I've never heard anybody say that they also had increased nausea in the fed state after starting intermittent fasting. Never, ever have heard anybody say that. I would wonder if it was something else going on?
Melanie Avalon: I would think so. If she said just fasted, I still think--
Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah, 100% I'm with you on that. I'm still not sure though, that the surgical is quite the best-- because people are not adapted to fasting. We do find that when people are new to intermittent fasting, they're more likely to get nauseous early in the process before being fat adapted. In fact, we tell them go ahead and eat if that happens if you're trying to ease into fasting and you find yourself shaky or nauseous. Eat, that's your body telling you, time to go ahead and break the fast. Once you adapt, we don't usually see people having the nausea.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I just feel like I've been doing fasting for a decade and I do feel like I'm more likely to get nauseous while fasted still. I don't really get nauseous, but I'm probably more susceptible to it now than if I were in the fed state.
Gin Stephens: I believe that too. I mean, I do believe that it shouldn't be a common occurrence.
Melanie Avalon: I don't walk around getting nauseous.
Gin Stephens: No. Although the worst seasickness I've ever had was in the fed state. [laughs] But that's a whole different thing. Seasickness is different. I always have had trouble with motion sickness before fasting or after fasting. It's not worse now. It's certainly not better though. [laughs] To me, I wonder if she's got something going on with her inner ear that's completely unrelated to fasting because if you have an inner ear problem, she said it started around month 2. It wasn't something that was happening from day 1. Something might have happened in month 2, maybe like I said, with her inner ear, because that can cause you to have vertigo.
Melanie Avalon: That is a really good suggestion.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, I would not assume it's related to fasting, since it's happening in the fed and the fasted state, and it didn't start at the beginning.
Melanie Avalon: You might also want to work with a doctor or a GI.
Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah, I would have your ears looked at by a doctor, first of all. If it is your ears, would you get back with us and let us know? Gin, the diagnostician. [laughs] Hey, teachers have to be good diagnosticians. We learned to do that in the classroom. When do you need to send a child to the nurse? When are they just fine? When is a band aid going to solve everything? When do you need to call their mom?
Melanie Avalon: I think I've shared this before, but I have a little tip for people who get nauseous or faint while getting their blood drawn.
Gin Stephens: What is that?
Melanie Avalon: Instead of thinking of them taking blood out and making you faint, because you're losing blood, I like to visualize them taking out-- This is going to sound weird, but taking out something I don't want in me, so pulling the badness out or something. I only fainted once while getting my blood drawn, it was literally in college. It was forever ago. Once you've done that once, you're just anticipating that might happen again. Ever since I've tried this little mental trick, I envisioned that it's making me stronger, or you can pretend that instead of they're taking your blood that they're giving you an IV with nutrients, that works too. It's incredible, if you just think about it differently. I don't get faint at all anymore.
Gin Stephens: Well, that's good. I don't get faint when they take my blood at all. But that's good.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes. That is good. It's really scary. Have you fainted ever?
Gin Stephens: I don't think so.
Melanie Avalon: It's very scary.
Gin Stephens: I feel like I would know.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, you would know.
Gin Stephens: I remember when I was a kid, I like wanted to faint. I was like, “That sounds fun. I want to faint.”
Melanie Avalon: It sounded so like a movie.
Gin Stephens: Yeah. Maybe it's dramatic. Like you just faint. Like on Little House on the Prairie, which I always used to watch. I'm sure you didn't watch the Little House on the Prairie, did you?
Melanie Avalon: I did.
Gin Stephens: Okay. Yay.
Melanie Avalon: I love Little House on the Prairie. My sister started watching it again recently. She's like, “I've been watching all the Little House on the Prairie.” I'm like, “Okay.” [laughs] She's 26. [laughs] Okay. This is a related question next, which is why I threw it in here. It's from Beth and the subject is “Surgery.” She says, “I'm wondering if you have any experience getting ready for surgery while doing IF. I'm living on one meal a day lifestyle. In one month, I will be having surgery. I want to be as healthy as possible so I can bounce back quickly. Do you have any tips for before and after surgery? I'm thinking bone broth after surgery. Any books I should read? What are your thoughts? I enjoy your podcast. You keep me on track. Thank you for your support.”
Oh, and I put another one in that is also sort of related from Lisa. It was about injuries. She says, “Hi, Gin and Melanie. My name is Lisa and I live in Australia. I've recently started doing IF again after trying 5:2 years ago and getting great results. I regularly use your podcast for extra motivation, and I love the content. This time around I've decided to do a 16- to 18-hour fast two to three times per week, which I'm finding great. However, I've just fractured my leg, sporting injury. My question for you is, am I okay to continue to do IF while recovering from a fracture? My guess is yes but I would welcome any recommendations on the best IF protocol whilst injured as well or any other thoughts you have. It's hard to find much on this online. Thanks so much and keep up the great work.” Two questions there, but basically injuries, surgery, recovering. What do we think about fasting? Then do we have any other suggestions?
Gin Stephens: One thing that has shocked me over the years of doing the Intermittent Fasting Stories podcast is how many people have something that they had for a long time, whatever it was, a condition, a scar, whatever something they've had forever, and they start doing intermittent fasting and that thing just clears right up. Like Donna Dube who I interviewed in the first year of the podcast, she had a thick ropey C-section scar for over 30 years. Melanie, have ever told you this story? It went away and the ropey thick part of it disappeared from intermittent fasting 30 years later. Basically, when we are in the fed state all the time, our body has to direct resources to digesting food, and it can't clean up things that it needs to do. We're not supposed to have those thick scars, our body is supposed to repair our skin. It can actually go back and manage old scar tissue. Shocking. I wouldn't write a book and say, “And you'll lose your scars.” That sounds fake and made up. But I've heard so many people report it that obviously, it's not fake and made up, it's happening.
Anyway, that lets me know that if I needed a bone to repair or if I had surgery, and my body was working on healing, the fasted time I think would be very beneficial. Now, of course, you want to talk to your doctor, because it really depends on the kind of surgery that you're having how you want to manage the time, whether you're having your digestive system as part of the surgery or whether it's on your toe. It could be anything in between. Who knows what it is? It will make a difference with how you refeed like whether you need to introduce food slowly with bone broth, if it was your digestive system, that might be just the right thing. Maybe if you're having joint replacement, you could have whatever you want to eat, it doesn't matter so much. Talk to your doctor about that and see what would be most appropriate for refeeding after surgery. But depending on what surgery you have done, that would make a difference about how you need to refeed and what you need to eat and what you need to prioritize. Do you need to prioritize protein, or do you need to eat gentle things that are easy to digest? It just really depends on what part of the body is working to heal.
As far as the fracture, yeah. I wouldn't even hesitate. I wouldn't even think about intermittent fasting being a detriment to bone healing, because human growth hormone is going to be increased, which is great for building bone. I actually, Lisa, would encourage you instead of doing a 16- to 18-hour fast two to three times a week, why aren't you doing it seven days a week? That's what I would do. I would fast every day, not just three to three times a week.
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I've looked up studies on surgery and fasting. There's actually a really good study that looks at people during Ramadan and surgical outcomes, which is I think really appropriate because that's people who are accustomed to fasting and then the study was called The Effect of Fasting During Ramadan on Outcomes After Bariatric Surgery at an Academic Medical Center in the Middle East. They saw there was not an increased risk for people fasting, it didn't make any difference.
Gin Stephens: Did it increase the speed of healing?
Melanie Avalon: I don't think so. They saw no difference. That's what they concluded.
Gin Stephens: Did they look at the speed of healing? I just wondered because you mentioned that it didn't cause negative effects. I was wondering if they also looked at the positive.
Melanie Avalon: They looked at the differences between perioperative outcomes, emergency department visits, readmission rates, reoperation, and complications, and there was not statistical difference between the two.
Gin Stephens: But that doesn't mean that people didn't have better healing, they just didn't measure that. Okay. Yeah. I would predict that if we did a study, and they actually looked at that, I've just, again, seen a lot of people in the community who have maybe they did knee replacement, now they're fasting, and they had done it on the other knee years before and they heal better this time. Anecdotally, we do hear that.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I will not be surprised. As far as the nutrition and such to have, yeah, I love bone broth. Oh, I don't know if I told you about this, Gin. I interviewed-- her name is also Melanie. Melanie Boloña. She's actually an actress, but she started her own bone broth company. Did I tell you about her?
Gin Stephens: I don't think so.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. I'm like obsessed with her. We're like the same person. She's in Nashville right now, so we might actually do a day trip and meet up to meet in person because we're very similar. Just if you need a recommendation for bone broth, she started a shelf stable bone broth concentrate with no added salt, all organic, and it ships to your house. It's delicious. I just ordered a whole new pack for myself. I don't know if the code is live yet, but I'll make sure that it is, but I'll put a link in the show notes. It's called Beauty & the Broth. I think the code is going to be MELANIEAVALON, and that will get you a discount. I think bone broth, yes, is a great thing for healing. The food that you're going to be eating will depend on what type of surgery you have and what you can have. I will say that a lot of times, they try to- when you're getting surgeries, depending on what you're getting, they will give you packets of these recommended nutrient shakes and things for recovery. They're probably not the best thing to-- [laughs] so, I would not go that route. Whole foods, bone broth, protein content is so, so key for recovery. Even if it has to be an easily digestible form, so bone broths and whatever type of protein you can tolerate, if it's like eggs or dairy, or straight up meat, depending on what you can tolerate when it comes to the bones. I will put a link in the show notes.
I did an episode with the Caltons. They wrote a book called Rebuild Your Bones. It's a fantastic book, I will say they're not a fan of fasting. Well, they are, but they think it's hard to get all of your nutrients within restricted windows. We talked about it on my show. We talked about how to do fasting and still get all your nutrition, but that episode is really valuable information for what you need to build bones. We dismantled a lot of the myths surrounding bones.
Gin Stephens: That they were open to listening to you?
Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes, yes.
Gin Stephens: Your ideas? Is that they leave with a different idea about fasting?
Melanie Avalon: No, I don't think so. But they basically were able to-- because I was very clear that my audience, a large portion of them are fasters. Basically, it was like if you're fasting, how would you recommend eating to have all this nutrition, and there's a transcript in the show notes. The show notes and the episode are at melanieavalon.com/bones, I think. She did say that she was supportive of IF, but they had hesitancies and that it was really important to get all of your nutrition in. But the conversation was very, very valuable for understanding what nutrients are required for bones. We talked about how a lot of people think bones are dead or that you don't regain bone or that you can't grow bone, but you completely can. We talked about how common drugs for osteoporosis actually affect bones and they actually they make your bones harder, but they can be more likely to fracture because it's like they're more likely to just snap because they're not flexible.
Gin Stephens: Do these drugs prevent you from getting the minerals in your bones that you need, have I read that somewhere?
Melanie Avalon: There's two basic types. Was it [phonetic] benzophiazonate, I can ever say the word. Something like that. They stop the breakdown process in the bone. Basically, in your bones, you have osteoclasts and osteoblasts. Osteoclasts break down your bones, osteoblasts build up your bones. I hope I'm getting this right, so don't quote me on this. Most of those drugs for osteoporosis, they stop the process that breaks down the bone. Then you're not losing bone and you're just building bone, but the problem is you need to be turning over that bone, because it's not going to create a healthy bone if you're not breaking down the bone-- because you're supposed because you're supposed to be constantly breaking down and rebuilding, so you're not supposed to be not breaking it down. It creates bones that are very hard and actually brittle, and more likely to fracture, which is ironic.
The other form of the drug, there's another one that has a slightly different mechanism of action, I'm not certain. In any case, the inspiring thing for Lisa, she's not talking about osteoporosis, but she is talking about repairing and rebuilding bone, is that it can completely 100% be done. You're definitely going to want to pay close, close attention to your nutrition, getting everything that you need, so getting your protein, vitamin D is super important for bones. The magnesium and calcium are really important. Check out that episode, because we do talk about all of it.
I'll also make another suggestion for surgery. I have found massive, massive benefit from supplementing NR and NMN, which helps support NAD levels. NAD is a master regulator in your body. It's involved in so many processes and it gets really depleted by stress by our modern lifestyles, and definitely by things like surgery. So, I would really suggest getting an NR or NMN supplement. I really like Quicksilver Scientific NMN. There's a discount at melanieavalon.com/quicksilver. I like Elysium Basis, they've actually been a sponsor of this show. I take their Basis every night actually, I think our code, IFPODCAST, gets you discount on that as well. I think that's my suggestions.
Gin Stephens: [laughs] Well, that sounds good. In a nutshell, fasting, good. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: And food and nutrition, even more so. Between the fasting and the food, in these situations I feel like the food is-- it's not even a dichotomy worth comparing, but the nutrition is very, very, very important.
Gin Stephens: I don't know. See, we always have a slightly different opinion about this, because I think that the rest from eating all the time is also really, really important. I don't think we can say it-- I don't know. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Again, it's a dichotomy, because you need both.
Gin Stephens: You do need both. I will give you that. We agree on that.
Melanie Avalon: You can't make something out of nothing, and you can make toxins out of bad things. To thrive, your body needs healthy nutrition.
Gin Stephens: Your body does need healthy nutrition 100%. Yes, that is true. I really do think that the fasting is such a key part of it.
Melanie Avalon: I see it more as the cleanup and the maintenance and the repair, like the actions, its actions compared to building blocks like material.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we could just agree that they both are equally important.
Melanie Avalon: I don't know that they're equally important though. [laughs] If I had to pick--
Gin Stephens: I still pick the fasting. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: I'd pick the food. Thankfully, we don't have to pick.
Gin Stephens: That's right, we can do both. That's exactly true.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, I will say, we were talking about the scar being broken down. I talked about it last week. I really do think that I'm going to develop a serrapeptase supplement. I think it works similar in that it's a proteolytic enzyme that goes throughout your body and breaks down old scar tissue. Sort of like the process of autophagy that's activated by fasting, breaking down these things, it can do that as well, catalyze that process. I posted about it in my Facebook group If Biohackers, and asked people if they would want to serrapeptase supplement that I developed, and I got so many comments. Tons of people saying that it was most life changing thing. A lot of people saying, well, not a lot, but quite a few people saying they got nauseous from it, appropriately enough, so that's something I want to look into more. Also, a lot of people saying why would you make your own when there's already so many, which the reason I would want to make my own is because a few reasons. There's all of this debate out there and I said this last time, but there's a lot of debate between the ideal form to have, and do you want the actual serrapeptase enteric coated or do you want to in an enteric-coated capsule? What strength to do have? Then I am so, so big on fillers and ingredients and quality and potency and purity.
Gin Stephens: Knowing the supply chain.
Melanie Avalon: Knowing, yes, exactly. I take this every day of my life, so I would love to just make my own and then be able to share with others because people ask questions a lot about my recommendation.
Gin Stephens: While you were talking about that I was thinking more about the fasting versus eating. Here's why I always say it's the fasting, because if I gave up fasting and had a super clean diet, but ate all day, I know I would regain all the weight I lost. With the food, I would still gain all the way back, even if I was very careful about my food, because all those years that I struggled with my weight, I would cycle through different eating styles from clean eating to low carb to low fat. The only thing that made a difference was the fasting and not the what. Of course, now I'm very careful about what I eat, because it makes me feel better to eat high quality foods. I'm not planning to go back to eating the standard American diet all the time, but if I did in an eating window, I feel like I would still maintain my weight and help a lot better than if I started eating around the clock. That's one reason that I base my answer on that. Just knowing for me, the fasting is the only thing that has improved my health, helped me lose weight, and keep it off. Even though my eating is not perfection, I eat the foods that I want to eat.
Melanie Avalon: Quick question about that. For the fasting, I'm assuming it requires a minimum amount of fasting to achieve this benefit, right?
Gin Stephens: For me, yeah. There was a minimum amount of fasting, maximum eating window. Because remember, when I switched to intermittent fasting, after having no luck on low carb, keto, I introduced intermittent fasting and also all the foods. I ate all the foods and felt so much better and lost 75 pounds. Although the last little bit I did “clean up” what I was eating for the last 10 weeks or so back then in 2015. For me, I just know, I feel like if I went back to eating all day, even if I were eating ultra-processed diet, I don't think I would have the same health benefits that I'm having.
Melanie Avalon: An ultra-unprocessed?
Gin Stephens: That's what I meant. Yeah, even if I was eating an ultra-unprocessed diets, skipping the ultra-processed foods, and eating a really clean diet, I don't feel like I could have the same health benefits that I have now.
Melanie Avalon: I guess the qualification question is-- so the fasting requires some sort of qualification, it has to be a certain minimum amount of hours. Then, if it were too long, you would probably have a detrimental return on effect, potentially. You could apply the same thing to food with eating only whole foods, but there is going to be qualifications, like you can't-- like you're not eating, bingeing eating or eating pass point satiety, 24/7. Like just normal eating of whole foods.
Gin Stephens: The thing is, is that I lose my satiety signals when my window is too long.
Melanie Avalon: Even with completely whole foods?
Gin Stephens: I remember back when I tried, I think it was Tosca Reno, I can't remember her name. There was a lady, the first eating clean book I ever read. It was a long time ago. I'd never heard of eating clean before, but her book was like The Eat-Clean Diet or something. I tried it, didn't lose any weight. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: What were you eating?
Gin Stephens: I mean, it's been so long, Melanie. I was following her recommendations, so I can't tell you exactly, but she was very stringent and what she allowed you to eat, but I didn't lose any weight. I also didn't have the palate for it back then, so I don't know what I was eating. I was certainly good at following directions when I would try a diet. I just know, for me, that fasting is a nonnegotiable, food quality came second after fasting, for me. When I tried to do food quality only all those years, those struggle years, was basically me trying to change my food quality and none of them ever made a difference. It was only the fasting that then allowed me to change my food quality. I could see it being opposite for somebody else. Maybe only changing their food quality would allow them to be able to do fasting. I don't know. But for me, the fasting was the magical piece.
Melanie Avalon: I guess, for me, the fasting is the magical piece. For me, it's what works better, so I'm complete same with you. I still feel like fasting is working-- depending what you're eating, it might be undoing damage or preparing you for damage, but then if you're eating healthy, then it's just further catalyzing everything compared to the food-- I don't know. I just feel like food is the foundation and it can easily be toxic, like putting something toxic into you. It can be toxic and that you just eat too much of it, so it's just a pure too much energy problem, but I don't know. It's hard for me to say that the fasting is more important than the food choices, even though for me the fasting is what works better. So, yes, I don't know. In any case, it's a good thing that we don't have to choose.
Gin Stephens: That's right. We can do whatev-- we can do both.
Melanie Avalon: That we can do both, which I love doing.
Gin Stephens: I'm sure we'll debate this again in the future.
Melanie Avalon: Probably. For listeners, if you'd like to submit your own questions for the podcast, you can directly email email@example.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can get the show notes for today's episode at ifpodcast.com/episode213. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. You can follow us on Instagram. Oh, I just posted this really cool thing on Instagram, is this jewelry called InvisaWear. They have key chains and necklaces and bracelets and hair scrunchies. You set it up with emergency contact numbers, and you can put 911 and you click it, and it'll call and it’ll tell the people where you are if you ever are in an unsafe situation. It works automatically once you buy it or you can pay for a subscription to ADT and actually have the option to call like a security system or have them text you or call you. It's very, very cool. I feel so safe now.
Gin Stephens: Wow. That's good.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and it's really pretty. I have coupon, it's MELANIE10 at melanieavalon.com/invisawear, I-N-V-I-S-A-W-E-A-R. I really, really like it. It makes really good gift for people especially like Mother's Day coming up and stuff. In any case, anything from you, Gin, before we go?
Gin Stephens: Nope, I think that's it.
Melanie Avalon: All right. Well, this was absolutely wonderful, and I will talk to you next week.
Gin Stephens: All right, bye-be.
Melanie Avalon: Bye.
Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcast, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Theme music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week.
STUFF WE LIKE
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
BUY Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, Gin's Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle, Feast Without Fear: Food and the Delay, Don't Deny Lifestyle and/or Gin's Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Clean Fast Protocol for Health, Longevity, and Weight Loss--Including the 21-Day FAST Start Guide
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Gin: GinStephens.com
Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com
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