Episode 430 – Find Your IF Type, Red Meat Causing Cancer, Headlines Problems, Fasting For Insulin Resistance And HGH, Absolute Vs. Relative Risk, Stevia, Monk Fruit, Allulose, And Erythritol, Is OMAD Too Stressful, And More!
Welcome to Episode 430 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
SHOW NOTES
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LINKS
Featured Restaurant:
https://www.tastingtable.com/1863781/yurt-restaurant-crested-butte-colorado-local/
STUDIES:
The Battle of Natural Sweeteners: A Comprehensive Guide to Monk Fruit and Stevia
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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 430 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of Avalon X and author of What, When, Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer, songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 430 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. I'm doing awesome. Hey, everybody listening. I'm having an awesome day today.
I'm here in New York. It's sunny. It's a little bit muggy, but other than that, can't complain. Just adjusting to life here and loving it so far. How about you, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
I'm good. So quick question. So for you normally, July is like the beginning of winter, right, in Australia?
Barry Conrad
We're doing the seasons thing again, remember?
Melanie Avalon
I know, I can't, I'm never gonna let this go. We're gonna be 80 and I'm gonna be like, so in Australia.
Barry Conrad
No, you're right. It's kind of the beginning of winter. It gets really, really cold, especially in Melbourne.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know why this is so mind blowing to me, but it's mind blowing to me that because like July here is is like summer, like that's what you associate. So the concept of associating July with cold or the concept of associating December Christmas with warm, my brain can't understand it.
Barry Conrad
Well, I know that A, you know, can let the seasons think go and B and B, I was actually talking to a friend on the weekend and I was buzzing out about Christmas this year, finally making the carols, finally making sense because it'd be a white Christmas.
Melanie Avalon
I know that's so exciting, which is also very telling that the Christmas carols are all cold.
Barry Conrad
You know, no one's saying, you know, let's have some shrimp on the baby. No one saying that, you know, in the summer. No.
Melanie Avalon
Which we just discussed shrimp on the barbie because I got this, I read this article saying that that was not authentic Australian speak and Barry was like, no, we say that. So where are they getting their information? Don't trust the news. Don't trust anything. It's my takeaway.
Barry Conrad
Did someone say that to you or did you just see the article? Just the article.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, the titles like no Australians don't say shrimp on the Barbie
Barry Conrad
Of course we do. That's such an Aussie thing to say. Shrimp on the barbie and to eat shrimp on the barbie. Is that a thing in?
Melanie Avalon
I don't even know what shrimp on the barbie is. Is it shrimp? Is it barbecue shrimp?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so picture like, I know that you love shrimp cocktails, so take the shrimp out of the cocktail and just throw it on like a barbecue. It's very summery.
You're wearing shorts and like thongs. You call it like, what do you call it here? Thongs? Shoes. Shoes, right? Flip flops? Yeah, not like a G-shing thong, not that. It's like flip flops, yeah. Yeah, flip flops. I can't picture you doing that though. I don't know. It's not really a mal motif.
Melanie Avalon
You can't see me like barbecuing.
Barry Conrad
Well, like you in like shorts and flip-flops and barbecuing in the sun, no.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I agree. I'm not mad about it. I used to be back in the day. I used to love like summer. Summer was my favorite. I would tan outside. I would, yeah. What changed? Me. Life.
I learned the better things in life. I learned where to put my energy. Can I make an announcement for listeners that's very exciting? Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, friends. So I've been talking about Beauty Counter on this show for eons. And I know a lot of you guys love the products. I love the products. And then they kind of went AWOL. And you guys have eagerly been waiting for them to come back. And they are officially back as of two weeks ago, assuming that the launch because we're recording this in the past or yes, assuming everything goes well, they should actually be back in life. And the reason I'm so obsessed with them is I'm obsessed with Epic Clean Beauty and skincare. There's a few different brands I love, including I'm going to love Barry's new brand when it comes out. Isn't it Conrad Skin?
Barry Conrad
cut in its skin.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, but in any case, effective and clean beauty and safe skincare is so important to me because here's something Barry, now that you're in the US, you're going to have to deal more with the shocking amount of things that we can put in products here in the US that they don't overseas. So there's very little regulation here in the US about what can go in skincare products, there's a lot of inter-condisrupters, things that affect your health. So, you know, you may be fasting clean and doing all the things, but you literally could be putting things on your body that are messing with your hormones and actually impeding your weight loss or affecting your fertility or adding to your toxic burden. So safe skincare is so, so important.
I am so passionate about it and beauty counters back. They're no longer called beauty counter. They are now called counter and I don't actually know all the details right now. So I will make a redirect link to make sure that everybody gets covered. So if you go to Melanie Avalon dot com slash counter, that will redirect to the counter link. I think there's going to be some sort of incentive from them. I though will be doing an incentive. So if you purchase through that link, I will send like new customers and it doesn't matter if you were with beauty counter before. So anybody new to counter, I will be sending some sort of something something to people or doing some sort of incentive. Check that out. Get on my clean beauty email list, which is at Melanie Avalon dot com slash clean beauty for more information.
But I'm very excited, especially because I've been really missing the products. It's been exciting to have one. I mean, there's so many reasons. It's exciting to have Barry Conrad as the co host of this show. But one thing is I think it's so cool that you appreciate skincare because I feel not to make generalizations, but I feel like men don't always they don't get into it as much as women, even though you guys have skin aging and don't you want to look good and glow like I don't actually I don't understand why men aren't more, you know, into this.
Barry Conrad
I think a lot. Well, first of all, it's super exciting that counter is going to be coming back. And second of all, a lot of men do want to look good. It's just not that they'll admit it.
Like so pretty much most of my male mates use skincare, but they just don't talk about it.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? They're like doing it on the on the download?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Sneaky, sneaky.
Barry Conrad
or they'll borrow their partners or their moms or their sisters skincare if they don't buy it themselves, they're definitely using it. And we talk about it as well, like, hey, I'm using this stuff.
It's really funny actually because people would never think that, but it's very, very, very common.
Melanie Avalon
That's so interesting. It's funny.
I remember like I gave back when it was beauty counter, I would give products to male relatives of mine and yeah, some of them would, you know, go on and on to me about how much they they loved it. So good to know it's okay. Well, I'm excited. I'm excited for your for your launch as well.
Barry Conrad
I'm so excited as well. I can't wait.
Especially because it's for men and for guys and to just destigmatize exactly what we're talking about. Skin care. It's not just a girly thing or a feminine thing to want to protect your skin. You know, it's yeah, exactly.
Melanie Avalon
And actually, that pairs really well because I guess Counter is gender neutral. At the same time, they actually, when they were Beauty Counter, they launched a men's line and then they actually got rid of it.
Interesting. Yeah. I'm really excited to have a brand, your brand, that is marketed towards men because there's not any clean, safe skank hair lines that I like because there's a few that I like and none of them are actually marketed towards men. So this is very exciting.
Barry Conrad
It's very, very exciting, Count White.
Melanie Avalon
Me too. Okay. Anything else new in your life?
Barry Conrad
Well, I saw, yeah, well, actually before I mentioned that I, uh, I saw this, uh, study this before we get into our study about, have you seen the whole red meat situation? No.
Melanie Avalon
please tell them maybe, what is it?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, the the whole, you know, quote unquote, red meat causes cancer claims getting a bit of a pushback now, this month, which goes back to the the 2015 who report, you know, that labeled red meat is probably carcinogenic. And, you know, so it's that's getting pushed back now.
And I could get all the way into it. But basically, it's another example of how once a thought catches a light, it can really run crazy, which is dangerous for people who base their lifestyle, style choices around it, you know, so it's another one of those things where it's not, it shouldn't be demonized, essentially, because yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, I feel egregiously uninformed. So you're saying now, are they saying they're taking it back or?
Barry Conrad
Well, it goes back to the 2015 WHO report that their wild red meat is probably carcinogenic, but that was based mostly on observational studies, not actual clinical trials. They basically found that just 17% of red meat and 18% of processed meat was the increased risk of cancer, which sounds big until you compare it to smoking, which is like a thousand percent cancer risk. Most of those heavy meat eaters also smoked, also drank more, also ate fewer veggies. So it's not that black and white.
And even a 2019 review in Enol's internal medicine using the grade system rated the evidence as low. It's a very low certainty. So it's just, it's just really crazy. So it's red meat's not the villain, you know, it's all about context. It's not just the red meat.
Melanie Avalon
And do you know, that's probably a relative risk, not an absolute risk.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So for listeners who are not familiar, the relative versus absolute risk is shockingly misleading because basically absolute risk... How would I say it? So absolute risk is across the board that you have this... Everybody has this amount of percent of likelihood of getting the thing. So if you have a 17% absolute risk, that means you're 17% more likely to get the thing. Relative risk is... It looks at it in comparison to people who already would be getting the cancer and then the difference if you were to eat meat. So basically if it's a 17% relative risk increase, that would mean that normally... It's looking at... Normally there's a group and a certain amount of those people would get cancer. When you add the relative risk of 17%, it means 17% more of that group would get cancer. So it's actually not a total amount. So it's not 17% of people everywhere. When you actually break it down to relative risk, it's going to be tiny.
It might be a 1% increase risk. That's actually what I'm looking up right now, it says. So you say 17% on the headlines, but it really might be 1% absolute risk, which is very different. Which is wild. Yeah. Also doesn't take into account. So you mentioned so many things right now. I didn't know that about the... They were talking about the studies that were used and everything. That's amazing that they're shedding light on that. I think that healthy user bias is huge. So people who eat meat, especially processed meat, because there has been such a stigma for so long around meat, people who eat that may be engaging in other unhealthy lifestyle factors. So there's that. And then I also think there's a big difference between processed meat, red meat, and other meat. So it all gets kind of like... It gets together, it gets in people's minds, is one thing. Yeah, thank you for drawing attention to it.
Barry Conrad
No worries. But basically, it makes me want to just have three steaks tonight.
It's just like, there's no, it's so crazy because people, like I said, they base their lifestyle choices around these headlines. So many people do. And that's not great when it's misinformation, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Wait, speaking of steak, can I tell you what I ate last night?
Barry Conrad
Is it Maui Nui?
Melanie Avalon
No, I was just thinking, I need to order some more and now that you're in the US, you need to order some. I want some. So we need to get you some Maui Nui. We love it.
They are venison from Hawaii, where the access deer population is wrecking the ecosystem. So it actually helps the Hawaiian ecosystem. It's super lean and delicious. It's done sustainably. We love it. So for listeners for that, you can go to Maui Nui Venison. That's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-V-E-N-I-S-O-N dot com slash IF podcast to secure your access because they do run out. But no, so last night, I've been eyeing, no pun intended, the Eye of Round steaks at Whole Foods. Oh, which have you gotten to Whole Foods yet?
Barry Conrad
I've, I've ordered off Amazon, but I haven't gone to an actual store, but that's the set doesn't Amazon own whole foods. It's the same stuff. You got to go in the.
Melanie Avalon
store though. Good experience, the vibe.
Barry Conrad
Okay, so the eye of round.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I've been eyeing the eye of round. Have you had eye of round?
Barry Conrad
It's not a robot, it's not, our round is different, so it's...
Melanie Avalon
So it's basically like one of the leanest cuts of steak. They had grass fat eye around, but here's the thing, they have it cut like steak. So it looks really approachable. Like it looks like a filet mignon. I didn't realize it's super tough. Like you're not supposed to eat it as a steak. I don't know why they sell it that way.
So I got it out and I got my meat pounder mallet and I like attacked it, hammered it, cut it up a lot and I turned it into a steak. It's a little bit tough, but yeah, it's kind of fun. Do you ever do that? Do you ever tenderize your meat with a hammer?
Barry Conrad
I've only done it for a bry, bry is like B-R-A-I, which is the African, the closest thing to a barbecue, but I don't normally do it at home because the neighbors would probably be like, are you okay? What's going on?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I was wondering about that because it was kind of late.
Barry Conrad
But wait, what attracted you to the eye of round?
Melanie Avalon
Because it looked, it was like so perfectly circular. It looked so lean. It was grass fed. I was like, oh, this looks perfect. And then I got it home and I was like, oh.
Barry Conrad
It's tough. Was it good? What did it taste like?
Melanie Avalon
This is not what it's supposed to be. Yeah, after I, so my recommendation to listeners is get the eye around, get your meat hammer mallet thing, just hammer it a ton, a ton, and then like crisscross your knife and fork to really like, and then like very quickly put it on a grill or something like I put it on the George Foreman.
And then while it was like very quickly cooking, I was like crisscrossing it with my knife and fork, like breaking it down. Sounds complicated, but it worked.
Barry Conrad
And what did you have it with?
Melanie Avalon
Cucumbers and chicken.
Barry Conrad
Wow, meat on meat on cucumbers, love it.
Melanie Avalon
So, okay. All the tangents. Well, thank you for that. Yay. Shall we jump into some fastening related things? Let's do it. All right. Do you have a study for us?
Barry Conrad
The study I'm bringing today is called insulin resistance reduction, intermittent fasting, and human growth hormone, secondary analysis of a randomized trial. This comes out of Intermountain Medical Center, Heart Institute in Salt Lake City. I'll just send you that link there as well, Mel, if you want to have a look at that. Thank you.
The lead author is Dr. Benjamin Horn, who also holds positions at Stanford University School of Medicine. Pretty reputable work here. This was, again, a follow-up analysis of the wonderful trial, which is a pretty good name. Wonderful in caps. The big idea they were digging into was we know intermittent fasting can help with weight loss and metabolic health, things like insulin sensitivity, glucose levels, all that. What they wanted to figure out was why IF works so well for some people and not as much for others, which was pretty intriguing.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I like this.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, their focus was one of my other favorite topics, human growth hormone, HGH. And for listeners who don't know, human growth hormone spikes naturally when we fast, and especially during those longer fasts. So I'm really excited to get into this.
So in this study, 68 adults aged between 21 and 70 were split into two groups. So one group did 24 hour water only fast, twice a week for the first month, then once a week for the next 22 weeks. The other group just ate, as usual, no restrictions. And they tracked all the expected markers, weight, insulin, glucose, HOMA IR, and HOMA IR is sort of like the marker of insulin resistance, and of course HGH. So across the board, people who did the fasting showed massive improvements in insulin resistance without losing a whole lot of weight. But the effect was really powerful in people who had lower baseline HGH. So we're talking about like people who naturally started out with less, sort of like less circulating growth hormone, which might be a hidden marker for a higher cardio metabolic risk. And those people saw a massive drop in insulin resistance, almost double compared to what? Oh, wow. Yeah, those who started with higher HGH. And it wasn't just the HOMA IR, their fasting, insulin, and glucose levels also dropped massively. So the weight loss between the groups wasn't that different now, but the changes in weight didn't predict changes in insulin resistance, which is really interesting. And it wasn't just about fat loss, it was a deeper hormonal and metabolic shift. And I guess people might be wondering, maybe why does that matter? But it matters because it suggests that HGH, or the lack of HGH might be a key factor in how our bodies respond to fasting. And it opens up this, maybe opens up this conversation about personalizing our protocols more. So maybe if you're someone with a lower HGH, and I guess you wouldn't know without blood work, you might actually be a prime, more primed for fasting, particularly for longer ones, rather than as opposed to people who aren't.
And it also reinforces, I reckon for what I'm getting from this is that fasting benefits can happen without dramatic weight loss. So it's not just, again, the scale victory. The big takeaway is, the improvements in insulin and glucose weren't tied to pounds or kgs. And that's huge because I know, we so often think like the scale has to move in order for health to improve, and here it didn't that much. And there was a hint as well that insulin resistance improved, HGH itself may have risen as well, which is really exciting. And it's kind of like that feedback loop where the better your metabolic health gets, the more growth hormone your body might actually naturally produce. So I think it's a massive win for IF, especially if you're struggling with insulin resistance, and it adds another layer, I think, on that whole thought of, you know, it has to be the scale of four for your health to improve. There's a lot happening behind the scenes that we don't even know. So what do you think, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
Wow, okay, that is an awesome find. That's super.
Yeah, because when you first said that they saw improvements with even without the weight loss, I was like, that's really, really interesting because, you know, we associate metabolic issues and insulin resistance and all those things so much with weight. So it's really cool that, you know, fasting is working behind the scenes even without necessarily causing weight loss, having all these other beneficial hormonal effects.
And also really interesting about so the people with lower baseline, you know, HGH benefited more, right? Is that what you're saying basically?
Yeah. So basically, if you're starting from a worse off hormonal, a harmonally imbalanced state, you only you have even more potentially to benefit with fasting. That's cool.
Barry Conrad
This is super interesting. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Nice, nice, nice. Oh my goodness. Thank you. Well, we will put a link to that in the show notes. Awesome. Shall we jump into some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Let's get into them.
Melanie Avalon
Alrighty, would you like to read the first one?
Barry Conrad
Yep. So Tina on Facebook asks, Melanie Evelyn and Barry Conrad, for the IF podcast, can you cover the topic of artificial sweeteners? Namely, monk fruit versus monk fruit and erythral blend. I'm generally low carb plus IF these days. So my approach has been to consume sugar through berries, limit added sugar in general and keep carb count to about 20 grams a day.
But I'd say my cravings for the occasional tiramisu is getting me curious about the best possible sugar alternative. And then in brackets, she has one bite of tiramisu never feels like enough sad face crying emoji. Has anyone else seen any reliable research on the specific topic, Melanie?
Melanie Avalon
All right, Tina, thank you for your question. Okay, so I did a deep dive into actually not just monk fruit and erythritol, but also stevia and also a little bit on alulose because I feel like those are the four non more natural ish artificial sweeteners, compared to really process forms like saccharin and aspartame and, and things like that, basically, like in Splenda, like the, like the different packets you see, like the blue, pink and the yellow packet of sweeteners. So I found one really good article. It's called the battle of natural sweeteners, a comprehensive guide to monk fruit and stevia. So walking you through these a little bit. So monk fruit, which I have tried. So I have definitely I've tried monk fruit, stevia, I've tried all these actually. So monk fruit, it's actually named after Buddhist monks who used to cultivate it hundreds of years ago. And it's an herbaceous perennial vine coming from the the gourd family. And it's actually been used in traditional Chinese medicine to treat things like cold and congestion and asthma and GI issues. It is 250 times so the active compound that makes it sweet is called magrocytes. And although it does actually contain glucose and fructose in it, the sweetness is actually not coming from that it's coming from these magrocyte compounds, which like I said, the whole thing is 250 times sweeter than sugar. So it only takes like a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit amount to taste sweet. And that's how you can get the sweet taste without the problematic effects of sugar, for example. And so there's been a lot of studies on it. There's been studies on it for the gut microbiome. It doesn't seem to have any negative effects. And it might actually have beneficial prebiotic effects, meaning it may actually support the growth of beneficial bacteria in the digestive tract. There's also been studies showing that bacteria, our gut bacteria can break it down in the colon. And then that creates antioxidant properties. And then also further promotes the growth of good bacteria in our gut. So that's cool. So other studies have found that it might have expectorant antioxidant, antimicrobial, immunologic, and anti-inflammatory potential. And it's also been suggested in studies that it could be a good treatment for obesity. Wow. Yeah, there's also even been a study that showing it has anti-cancer properties. And this is not... So this is the compound in it called Magroside that I mentioned, specifically for pancreatic cancer. And okay, so I'm going to pause because that's monk fruit.
And then Stevia, I know she asked about monk root versus erythritol, which I will explain. But Stevia is another one that people use a lot. So it comes from the S. rebadiana leaves. And they contain more than 20 things called stevial glycosides. People might see... Like when you get Stevia, different brands, you might see like RebA on the back. And that's because there's different...
Melanie Avalon
These different glycosides that people use to create the sweetness. So some use the stevia side, some use this Rebodeoside A and might focus on that aspect of it. So I'm gonna call it RebA. RebA, for example, is 150 to 320 times sweeter than sugar sucrose, while Stevia side is 100 to 270 times sweeter. So similar to monk fruit is the situation where you get like a tiny, tiny bit and it makes everything feel very sweet. So Stevia has been found to have anti-hyperglycemic, so anti-high blood sugar potential, also good for potentially good for blood pressure. It may be a diuretic, it may have anti-cancer effects. It's also found to have polyphenolic compounds in it, which actually have antioxidant properties. It has been shown to stimulate insulin production, which can help lower blood sugar. This is why that we talk a lot about the clean fast and not having Stevia, because it could cause your body to release insulin, lower your blood sugar and then make you know a little bit cravy-ish during the fast.
It's also been shown to have anti-inflammatory, antibacterial and immunomodulating properties. And then as a side note, I know it's been used actually to treat like Lyme disease. And I know that because I went down that whole rabbit hole and they were saying that could help like break up biofilms and potentially treat Lyme. So Stevia has been studied for its potential benefits for type 2 diabetes. And so the results have been mixed. So some have found that it... One study found that they didn't really have an effect on HPA1C or blood sugar levels, but it was well tolerated and there weren't side effects. And then as well, another study also found that it did not affect blood sugar, HPA1C, insulin or lipid levels in patients, meaning it basically could be a healthy substitute for sugar, but they didn't necessarily see like any additional benefit, but you could get the sweetness without the problems of sugar essentially. In rats though, it's shown to have more concentrated beneficial effects with blood sugar levels. And so like I was saying, so it might affect insulin, but there's extensive research that it does not raise blood sugar or actually affect blood sugar management. So it's actually... Let's see. So in 2022, the American Diabetes Association, which I'm not going to like throw shade at them. I'll just say that their recommended diet, I would not agree with, but they did recommend non-nutritive sweeteners as acceptable substitutes for sugar for people with diabetes, as long as people do not overcompensate and eat more from other things. So basically that's Stevia, that's mong fruit. There's also this one, and I will circle back... Actually, I'll talk about erythritol now. So erythritol is a sugar alcohol. So erythritol is a sugar alcohol, and it's often used as a bulking agent. So basically, you'll find a lot of products that mix together mong fruit and erythritol or Stevia and erythritol. And that's because for different reasons, because of how well erythritol might bake, because the texture, depending on what they're going for, the blend is more approachable to some people.
Melanie Avalon
So they'll use it to... Basically, it's used to just make different options for these natural non-chloric sweeteners that either would taste better or would bake well. Erythritol, I liked because other sugar aquatols are things like xylitol, sorbitol, and those can have not good effects. I know with sorbitols, often in sugar-free gum. And back in the day when I would chew a lot of gum, when I was addicted to gum, I would get a lot of stomach upset from that.
Xylitol, I also would get stomach upset from. But xylitol, they use a lot, actually, because it's really good for the mouth. It actually has a beneficial effect on mouth bacteria, breaks down biofilm. It's a good option for your mouth. That's why it's often in mouth washes and, again, in gums and such. Erythritol, when it came out, it was kind of... I guess not when it came out, but when it became really popular, they kind of were saying that it had all these benefits without any of the problems with the other sugar alcohols.
That's really the difference between monk fruit versus monk fruit plus erythritol. It's just, depending on what you're going for, if you're baking... She said she wanted tiramisu. It might be a thing where you find a product that to bake with, you would need that erythritol blend to replace sugar. So it's really kind of a personal preference. It's actually like a sense of sugar alcohol. Those are actually naturally found in fruits and erythritol is about 70% as sweet as sugar. It's also very low calorie. It does not seem to affect insulin, does not seem to affect blood sugar. It's much more well tolerated than the other sugar alcohols. And then I wanted to draw attention to Alulose, which she did not ask about, but it's become more and more popular. It's cool because it has, again, basically almost no calories, and yet it seems to actively reduce A1c. So a level of people's blood sugar markers over time and type 2 diabetes, they found that in a 2024 meta-analysis.
It may increase the tiety hormones. It's been shown to potentially reduce body fat. Out of all of these, it tastes the closest to sugar, in my opinion. And what's cool about it is it actually competes with the receptor for glucose. I think it competes in your intestine for either sucrose or glucose. So the effect is that it actually can potentially make it so that you don't absorb other sugar. So it may have a beneficial effect in that way. So it actually may improve insulin sensitivity and may have beneficial effects. And I remember when it first came out, I was like, hmm, I'm suspicious. How can this have all these benefits and no side effects? But I mean, it's been a while now and I haven't seen anything negative from it. I think out of all the different ones, I kind of feel like it may have the most health benefits. But then again, it's hard to know because I mentioned all those other benefits with stevia and monk fruit.
Melanie Avalon
So my thoughts on all of these are, I feel like if you, I would not use them during the fast, like I was saying, because even if studies show that they don't affect insulin, they don't affect blood sugar, that sweetness while you're fasting is sending your body the wrong signals. I don't care if in a study, they find that it didn't actually affect insulin levels. The sweetness experience while fasting is, at least for me, and I think for a lot of people, is going to take you out of the fasting vibe. It's not going to make fasting easier, in my opinion.
But when you're wanting to bake, if you're wanting to reduce your sugar levels, I think a lot of these either are neutral or might have benefits. So if Tina is wanting her tiramisu and she wants to bake it, she wants to stay low carb and she wants to bake it, with sugar, I would definitely look into these. I would actually, I know she asked about monk fruit and monk fruit erythritol. I would probably look into Alilah's for baking, personally. Although I guess tiramisu. Wait, tiramisu? Is tiramisu baked at all? It is, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's like the cake and then the stuff. I don't like tiramisu. I don't like a tiramisu. Really? You don't? Yeah, because it's got that coffee flavor, right?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it does.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of coffee-flavored food. Are you?
Barry Conrad
Interesting cuz you know what about affogato have you had a forgot we talked about this.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, we talked about this. So that's coffee flavored.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but it's more like a drink and you still eat the ice cream with the coffee and the liqueur.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Nia, no, they got pounds. I just like my coffee in the morning, you know, plain.
Barry Conrad
Just a teaspoon. Just... Yeah. Bye.
Melanie Avalon
So that was a lot.
Barry Conrad
There's really comprehensive that I didn't know, but the, the latter one, do you mentioned never heard of it before until Ali, yeah, I'd never heard of it before. Until now, it's really cool.
Melanie Avalon
So do you use artificial, or I keep calling them artificial, do you use any of these natural non-chloric sweeteners?
Barry Conrad
Tina, first of all, let me say that I feel you in terribus who won by it is never enough because it's so delicious. But to answer your question, yeah, I've actually used it to... I went through a phase of cooking, trying to cook desserts with baked desserts without sugar.
So I use like monk fruit and monk fruit and erythritol blend. There's a brand that I use called Whole Earth and I used to make raspberry ripple, which is like this... Do you know what that is, Mel? It's like a...
Melanie Avalon
Sounds like we're like, what's it called, like river wrapping, like river rapids.
Barry Conrad
It's kind of, well, it's pretty much tastes like that in your, in your belly. It's like dark chocolate and raspberry. And you basically make this concoction with the sweetener, which I use mung fruit, and then you freeze it and then you smash it into pieces and you have like little, it's like a slice, like a healthy chocolate slice. It's really good.
Wow. You smash it. Like you'd evolve picture. Like get Mel's, uh, Take the tenderizer. And once the, it comes out in like this one sheet of like chocolate and raspberry ripple and monk fruit or whatnot. And you just smash it into bits and pieces and you just eat it.
Melanie Avalon
Nice, you're gonna have to like open, you should open a Australian restaurant here.
Barry Conrad
You know what what are my dreams don't tell me you want to have a restaurant. Well it's pretty it sounds pretty far fetched but i'm always like i've always thought of names for what i would call it and everything and just like how exciting would be.
What would you call it all this so many things what one of the names is bountiful.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, like that.
Barry Conrad
but there's lots of different names. But just like, yeah, I like the idea, even if it's like something small or even like a hot sauce or just like something edible that people can eat, something, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, you should do it. Yes. Yes. I say yes.
Barry Conrad
but I won't use, or maybe I will use monk fruit. I'm not too sure. Would you ever want to open up a restaurant?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, why not? I would love to have like a Michelin star restaurant.
Barry Conrad
I can see that. It would have to be really legit. Everything would be sourced.
Melanie Avalon
Super sustainable, super fresh.
Barry Conrad
only blue meat, like no, no, well done, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. I would not enforce. I don't know.
But I don't know if we would cook above like, I don't know. No, we want people to be happy. We'll do it. But it could be like actually it could be based around like, non toxic cooking methods as well. So maybe we wouldn't actually cook anything like really chart or anything.
Barry Conrad
Oh, we talked about the char, that's right. Oh, and I charred something the other night. Accidentally, accidentally, corn.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, was it good? Yes. Nice. We should brainstorm about food. Yes. You should totally create a product though. That'd be awesome. Like a food product.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that'd be really fun because it's very me, so it makes sense.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Well, anything else on that question?
Barry Conrad
No, well, not at all. I think you summed it up so comprehensively. That was awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome, thank you. All right, so we have another question.
So this question is from Amy, also from Facebook. And Amy says, I'm seeing a lot lately that one meal a day is the best for fat loss. Would you recommend it for someone that should lose 20 pounds? Is this too much stress long-term?
Barry Conrad
Amy, how's it going? I hope you're having a good day so far. Thank you for your question. And you're definitely not alone in asking this question.
There's a lot of people out there wondering, you know, if OMAD or One Meal a Day is the, you know, the secret source for losing weight, losing fat. And honestly, I mean, that does make sense based on maybe the outside because it sounds clean, focused, efficient, eat once, fast for the rest of the time. And for some people, that sounds amazing. For me, I do OMAD as well. I probably fast for 20 hours a day on average and sometimes longer accidentally. And I love it. It works really well for me, Amy, my lifestyle, my energy, my goals. But, you know, I also know that no fasting protocol is a one size fits all.
It really depends on where you're at. So if your goal is to lose around 20 pounds, OMAD can absolutely work and often does because you're eating in a tighter window and giving your body that extra, like plenty of time to rest, digest, tap into stored fat and all of that is great. But here's also a bit of some nuance here. Just because something can work, it doesn't always mean it's the best place to start, especially if your body's already under stress because OMAD, while it sounds really simple in theory, it's still like all intermittent fasting, a stressor.
So you're asking your body to go 20 to maybe 23 hours without food and then take in all of your nutrition. So that's like protein, your fiber, your micronutrients, your calories, all in one go. And for volume eaters like Melanie, like myself, that's pretty easy and we love it. But for a lot of people that I know personally when they hear it, that's just like, how do you do that? It's too much in one go, especially if you're new and you're highly active, can't eat as much in a smaller window, or maybe you're just not as dialed into what your body needs. So it can also be harder to hit that protein in one go if that's you, which is really, really important if you wanna lose fat as well without losing muscle, especially for like longer term metabolic health as well, Amy.
And there's also cortisol. So we've talked about this before on the podcast, Amy, that stress isn't just mental, it's also biological. So if you've already, for example, got a lot going on, say work or bad sleep, or just super intense work, for example, stacking OMAD on top of that straight away might not be the best decision. It could maybe backfire because your bodies can interpret that as one stressor too many, because when your cortisol goes up, it can lead to that water retention or stalled fat loss sometimes, even though you feel like you're doing everything quote unquote, right.
So I reckon if you're curious about OMAD and you wanna try it, great, but give yourself a bit of permission to experiment, just see how you go. Start it out if it feels good. If you're recovering well, sleeping well, getting enough protein and nutrients in that one sitting, you're probably on the right track and give it some time to see how that goes, not one day or even a few days.
Barry Conrad
But if you're noticing maybe like signs of burnout or plateau or fatigue, don't be shy to pull back and try a different protocol or a more moderate approach, something like 18.6 or whatnot, coupled with maybe dialing in more food choices could be really good. And that's a lot more sustainable for a lot of people as well.
At the end of the day, like we say a lot, it's a tool. And it's also a tool best used when it's intentional, Amy. Oh man, it's awesome, but it's not a pill. Just listen to your body, give it a go and let us know. Let us know how you go and keep us updated. What do you think, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
That was awesome. I feel like you nailed it.
So one meal a day in and of itself as a concept, if you're eating enough food is not automatically, you know, too much stress. And at the same time, like Barry was saying, the context of everything is so important. So, you know, if you're not getting any, if you're doing any sort of fasting protocol and you're not getting enough nutrition in the window, then that's going to become, you know, more of a stressor to your body. Actually, I should, I should re say what I said, because, because fasting is a hormetic stress, but it's a beneficial stress where your body actually, you know, is informed by it to come back stronger. So it's a stress that we like when it tips into the, the non beneficial stress is when we're not giving our bodies what they need to properly, you know, rebound from that stress. So like Barry was saying, making sure you're getting enough protein, and then not just, you know, protein, making sure you're getting enough nutrients. And it's interesting because fasting, you know, the people will debate this all day, you know, are the effects just from calorie restriction? Like, are you ultimately eating less? And that's why it works. Regardless, fasting works for a lot of people, because it makes them naturally eat less, which you might naturally do in a one meal day type pattern. I think there's something really important to pay attention to, which there's a difference, in my opinion, between eating less calories than you need, but enough nutrients, compared to less calories than you need, but not enough nutrients. So if you're eating a calorie restrict, if you're doing one meal a day, and, and it makes you be quote, calorie restricted, and that's all from like processed foods, or non nutrient rich foods, so you're not getting your vitamins, you're not getting your minerals, you're not getting your your minimal protein, then that's going to be a stressor to the body, compared to if it's calorie restricted, you're eating less, but you're getting adequate protein, you're getting the vitamins, the minerals that your body needs to actually function, then you can that's what, you know, welcomes you to a lot more effortless compared to normal dieting weight loss.
So I think context is key. And like Barry was saying, you know, all of your lifestyle surrounding it, are you getting enough sleep? Do you have a lot of like mental stress as well? So as far as like, is it best for fat loss? No, not necessarily. For some people, yes, it might be best for you if you're a person where that's what works for you. But for other people, the best fasting for weight loss might be ADF, or it might be a, like a longer window that you do more consistently. So we can't really make a blanket statement about somebody needs to lose 20 pounds, what's the best approach? I wish we could, that would make it so much easier. But actually, actually, I wonder if it's still working. Let me see. I have a quiz I made. A quiz? Yeah, I think though I think we talked about this. Because I think you took it like right when we started recording. Am I am I like making up memories? No.
Barry Conrad
A poll is a quiz.
Melanie Avalon
So if you go to Melanie Avalon.com slash if quiz, I actually made a quiz forever ago that can help you find what might be your best fasting window.
Do you remember this? I feel like Barry, I feel like you took it.
Barry Conrad
I don't know if I did, I can't remember it now.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like I feel like we okay, we're gonna have to take it. You're not you're gonna take it Wait, do you want to take it right now and see what it gives you?
Yeah, okay So Barry just took it. I just retook it too. Yes, and I got we both got the same thing, right? We got the meal approach
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So for that one, that's where I recommend that you choose one or two meals to consume each day. You snack in between the meals within the general eating window, but not beyond that. You don't have to count hours or look at the clock. You just stick to your meals.
So you can do breakfast or breakfast and lunch, lunch, lunch and dinner, dinner, dinner and snacking till bed. That's me. So the one meal a day would fit in here because that would be like if you do dinner only or like lunch only. Yeah. The other options that it can give you. One is like looking at the clock. So like I literally, you literally just eat between two and six or, you know, it's like a time on the clock. And then another option it gives you is just counting the minimal fasting hours. So like I'm going to fast this amount of hours, I fast this amount of hours. I think I actually have to double check. I made this quiz so long ago because you don't.
Barry Conrad
I don't use an app at all anymore. I don't as well. I told you Mel, I gave it up here.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean because how do you think do you view it from like the meals that you're eating or how do you or the clock or
Barry Conrad
I kind of just make sure that I get like the minimum fasting hours in and I don't worry as much about like sometimes for example if something's going on and it's a longer even if it's a longer time eating at time which is rare but I'm not fast as long as I get the 20 hours in
Melanie Avalon
So you know what I need to do, this is really helpful. Again, I took that, I made that quiz so long ago. By the way, it's really, have you made a quiz before like that? It's complicated.
Cause you basically have to like, you have to come up with all the answers and then you have to decide how everything is weighted. So like, and there's different ways you can do it. Like some things lead to different trails. Like if you answer one thing, it leads you somewhere else. This one doesn't do that. This one is a weighted quiz. But so what I need to do, cause I know there's a question in there that asked or the answer said, like all that matters to you is that you fast like a minimum amount of hours. So I need to go in and weight that way more so that if somebody clicks that, they're probably going to get that answer unless, unless something else, you know, contradicts it, I guess.
Barry Conrad
It's way more freeing as well, I reckon, just having the app and just being a bit more... Just trust your body as well and you know what you're doing after a while.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I used to count the fasting hours. So I had to fast like a minimum amount, but it was always a one meal day dinner situation.
I guess I just kind of like let that go eventually. And then I was like, okay, I'm just eating dinner.
Barry Conrad
Same, same.
Melanie Avalon
Which speaking of well, first of all, thank you so much Amy for the question Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
I love how that's rolling with your tongue so smooth and quickly now.
Melanie Avalon
It just rolls off the tongue. I don't even know what I'm saying. I don't even, you know?
Barry Conrad
And yes, that's the answer. Yes, I am.
Melanie Avalon
I am so excited about this restaurant I found.
Barry Conrad
Is it a Disney restaurant? It's not. Whoa, is it American?
Melanie Avalon
Yes.
Barry Conrad
Okay. Also, Mel, I saw in your Facebook group, one of your long-term, long-time supporters, Damon in there, he was like, when I said I was in America, he said, it's time to, time to go to those, those restaurants you guys go over.
Yeah, yeah. Cause I'm there. And he's like, you know, we should film it. And he's like, we got to do it.
Melanie Avalon
I know. We have to. We're like so close now.
Barry Conrad
I know. It's happening.
Melanie Avalon
So listeners, Barry, I just realized there's not, I can't find a menu online, but I'm going to tell you about the restaurant and you can, and I think, and you can tell me if you would do this and what you would get. I think we can come up with what we think we would get. Sounds good. Let's do it.
I don't think I would go though. So you'll see why. You'll see why. Okay. So this restaurant is called the Magic Meadows Yurt. And it is a restaurant housed inside a massive fort in Crested Butte, Colorado. It's only open from December to March. And here it comes, ready? It requires diners to first trek a mile long trail, either by cross country ski or snowshoe to get there. And then they have a five course Saturday dinner. So basically, okay, let me tell you more about it. So it's all inclusive. It's $185 per person, multi-course meal, drinks, gratuity, oh, and everything is included as far as like the, the equipment they give you to get there and the trail passes. So basically, here's how. Okay. So it starts at 4.30 local time. You meet at the Nordic Center, you get equipped with gear to make the trek. You can either ski or snowshoe. And then you ski on your own or you can carpool to the trailhead to snowshoe over. The doors of the restaurant open at 6. They greet you with drinks, including local options from the Montana distillery and small bites. And then they begin dinner at 6.30. It's a gourmet meal prepared by Chef Tim Egglehoff, who's well known for his cuisine. And it's inspired by iconic Colorado foods. And it's also seasonal. And so reviewers of it, they say that it's cool because it's an exclusive location. You have this feeling of warmth as you enter this fort yurt in the, from the snow. They keep the yurt warm by a wood stove. The dining is intended to be leisurely. So it's a couple of hours where you go through these courses. And then the reviewers note that the most difficult part is you actually have to go back afterwards in the cold weather. You have to trek back. So I can't find the menu online because it looks like it's very
Barry Conrad
Actually, Mel, can you look at the link that I just sent you? I may have just found a sample, but it's like has photos and like what, yeah, like of like, we can look at their five course. I don't know if you're gonna like it.
Melanie Avalon
Somebody who reviewed it.
Barry Conrad
I think so and they have like if you go all the way will keep scrolling you'll see like photos of like the five things.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so these people, when did they go? Is there a date on this, on this post?
Oh, 2000, this is 2014 that these people went. So I, let's see when they went, they got, let's see, goat cheese, pesto, roasted garlic on Christina.
Barry Conrad
Okay, I'd get that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would not get that and then they got mixed green salad with pear pomegranate feta. That sounds good. You can have mine. They got better not squash soup.
Barry Conrad
Hmm, I'll probably pass on that no
Melanie Avalon
And then they had, so their entree was steak a poivre, brandy cream sauce, garlic mashed potatoes, roasted carrots. I would get steak, I would do a lot of modifications.
Barry Conrad
But what if, what if they have a limited, because if it's in a tent, I wonder if what the situation's like, you know, if it's like.
Melanie Avalon
It's a fort.
Barry Conrad
I'm picturing like just a big camp, right?
Melanie Avalon
Do you see the pictures of the building at the top? It reminds me, oh my goodness, when you were little,
Barry Conrad
all the time.
Melanie Avalon
Wasn't that so fun?
Barry Conrad
So fun, like blankets and like, yeah, everything, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I remember, have I told this story about what I did in college? What? Like my freshman year of college when you're like living with, you know, people like on your floor. It was one of the holidays where everybody went home, but we didn't go home. I think Thanksgiving holiday.
So me and one of my best friends on my floor, we, for the whole holidays that we were there, we built a fort in my room and we slept in it every night on the floor.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Cause there's like nobody around. We're like, you know what? We're going to build a fort and we're going to sleep in the fort every night.
How many months did you do that? I don't know how long the vacation, I mean, how long, however long like Thanksgiving holiday was. So probably like, probably like a week.
Barry Conrad
That's pretty impressive. That's commitment to the cause right there, the full cause.
Melanie Avalon
Because I think I went back every other. I don't know how many times I went back and didn't, but I was from Atlanta.
She was in Texas. So we weren't going to fly back just for Thanksgiving, especially when you're going to fly back for Christmas, shortly thereafter. So yeah, I'm all about the Fort. I'm getting flashbacks to Fort life right now, looking at these pictures.
Barry Conrad
It's so funny because I'm picturing the melody now and like a long black dress building a fort, you know, like I'm just, it's just a different.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Melanie and I would not sleep in a fort on the ground in her dorm room with another person.
Barry Conrad
No, no, no, no. No, it's everything.
Melanie Avalon
No, it's just so much no's. I can't even... Well, it looks like they have some choices because when this person went in 2014, the guy got a steak and the... I'm assuming it's a woman. She got herb-crested salmon. So there must have been choices.
Oh, we selected our manes. Okay, that's good to know. They got... They selected their... And if they're using your words, manes, they selected their... Maybe they're Australian. They... We selected our manes when we purchased our seats for the dinner. So, oh, there was a choice between salmon, chicken, steak and mushroom risotto. So I guess when you buy the tickets is when you get to pick what you're having.
Barry Conrad
All right
Melanie Avalon
And then dinner, okay, so dinner wasn't until nine and they had flourless chocolate cake. Oh wait, what would you get between, so what would you get, look at us like going rogue and figuring this out.
What would you get between salmon, chicken, steak, and mushroom risotto for your meal?
Barry Conrad
I would do the steak.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, hands down.
Melanie Avalon
I think I would, I think when getting these tickets, I'd be like, okay, listen, here's the deal. Oh, I have a proposition.
I will buy this ticket and you can just not give me any courses. Can I just get salmon, plain, chicken, plain, steak, plain, and I'll pay like an upcharge and you can like give it to me in whatever order you want.
Barry Conrad
Okay, what would you do if I wanted to plan a trip and I'd surprise you with something like this? Would you be mad or would you be happy? And you had no idea where we're going?
Melanie Avalon
That reminds me, we have to talk about surprise parties. Can we talk about that next episode? Because it relates to this. So the question is, how are you surprising me?
Barry Conrad
So I'm saying, hey, I booked us, you know, this is after we've met and everything in real life and everything. So this is maybe three or maybe the fourth time we hang out in person. I was like, I booked this trip. It's going to be really fun.
It's in theme with the restaurants we're doing. It'll be fun. I'm not going to tell you where, I'm just surprising you. And then we turn up and it's this place.
Melanie Avalon
Well, so here's the thing. So if you did that, if you proposition me with this, I would trust you.
I'd be like, he's going to do something he knows I like, but then if you did this where I have to hike, I think Barry, you would be on very slippery slopes.
Barry Conrad
Imagine your face would just drop and be like, oh, no.
Melanie Avalon
But can you imagine having to hike back after the meal when it's like cold at nine?
Barry Conrad
No, I think if there was the accommodation was right there, that's different, you know, but if you had to hike there and then the accommodation got sent up in some car, like in the hikers as part of it and you just stayed the night, that's different. But if you have to hike back, no, no way.
Melanie Avalon
Really? You're a no?
Barry Conrad
No.
Melanie Avalon
Wow. Okay. I wasn't expecting that. I think I mean, I'm on the same page. I agree. I mean, yes. I guess I thought yeah, I guess I thought you'd be down.
Barry Conrad
No. Okay.
If, if that's part of the whole thing of, okay, we know that we're going because we want to hike and it's that, that's the, that's the thing cool. But if, cause after eating, I feel relaxed and like, I don't want to be doing a hike, you know?
Melanie Avalon
It literally sounds horrible, no, but I support this for people who I support this restaurant. I think it's really cool. It's just not my, I just can't.
Barry Conrad
Because it says they started what did you say they start eating at nine p.m.
Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, the dessert came by nine for those people. So it looks like they, from the other thing we read, which was much more recent, because I saw this article recently, they said, you start eating at 630. And then I guess it's a couple hours. So I guess it goes from like 630 to, you know, like, you're probably there till 10.
Then you have to hike back a mile. I can't. It literally sounds horrible.
Barry Conrad
That's nothing. That's okay. I can do that.
Melanie Avalon
Barry? What? Wait, you just you were just saying how like, oh, you don't you don't want to like, think about okay, think about you like that I'm like trying to convince you now to like stick to I gave you grief for your for your answer and I'm trying to convince you to stick with it.
Barry Conrad
I think the timing, if it was super late, there's no chance. But if it's like earlier and like, that's just like one part of the night.
And then we hike back and then do something else cool. Like I don't drinks or something down by the place we're staying, then sweet.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I just feel like me being there, like if I was in there for, you know, having these courses, I would be thinking the whole time, I gotta, after this, I gotta go outside and hike back.
Barry Conrad
You'd hate it.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder what happens when people, like, can't. I wonder if they have, like, a backup snowmobile. I bet they do.
Barry Conrad
It wouldn't be that kind, like people just, they're too full.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, if they've been around since at least 2014, based on that blog post, that's a decade. There's definitely been people who have not been able to go back after, who either refuse or are too drunk.
They have a backup plan, I'm sure.
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I don't know, one of those people's like, I'm not, yeah, you'd be so, I'm just picturing your face. You would not be impressed.
You'd be, you'd probably like, be like, thanks. Oh, when you present this to me. Like, thanks Barry, but, and just imagine part of the thing is we're stuck there and there's no other planes or anything out until two days later. So you have to, you have to do it.
Melanie Avalon
Well, wouldn't it be like we would we would get to this location in Colorado and then I would realize what the situation is And then I would just refuse to go
Barry Conrad
What would you do? You just wait down there?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm sure there's other I mean, this is not I'd be like, okay, you can go. I'll find somebody who can take my spot.
Barry Conrad
But what if I said, well, you know, Dave Asprey and all these other friends of yours waiting up there because it's like a thing for you, you know, they're all waiting for you.
Melanie Avalon
Like it's like this whole party with all these people. I would look into what is their alternative way of getting there and getting back. Oh man, that was fun.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, fun. Try to figure that out. I'm just picturing like a really funny Netflix rom-com or something. It just sounds like that.
Melanie Avalon
It does. We should write it. We should make it. We should not do it though.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's definitely not a Melanie Avalon restaurant.
Melanie Avalon
Nope, I'm adding it right now. So for listeners, I will put a link in the show notes to the article about it and then also to the website if you would like to reserve.
So they start, you have to reserve. So, oh, this is perfect timing because this airs mid-July, the dinners they start going on sale August 1st and the dinners start in December. Oh, oh, some of them have live music. Wait a minute. Oh, if you're there, New Year's Eve. New Year's Eve. Thank you.
Barry Conrad
No, but a lot of music sounds cool. Like on an unlike another occasion.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, let me really quickly have live music other days. Oh, also January 3.
February 14. Oh, so Valentine's Day. And March 21. Is that what like the Ides of March or something? Or is that like the last? It's the last day they do it.
Barry Conrad
Imagine going on Valentine's Day on a date and then having to hike back.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh.
Barry Conrad
We always talk about dates, like what changes between the car and the place? Lots of things, everything, especially after this hike.
Melanie Avalon
Oh man we're done. I'm out. Oh man this is why it's called Saint Massacre's Day, right? Isn't it originally like a... it's a really dark holiday, the background of it.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
sounds doc especially if you go somewhere like this and you're not a hiker so okay this is really fun for listeners you can get links to everything that we talked about all the things and a full transcript when you go to if podcast comm slash episode 430 you can get all the stuff that we like at if podcast comm slash stuff we like brief reminder that beauty counter now counter is coming back get on my clean beauty email list to get all the things from me that's at Melanie Avalon comm slash clean beauty the link for that go to Melanie Avalon comm slash counter co you and ter oh by the way Barry do you want to give your link for your email list again
Barry Conrad
Sure, you can go to barryconradofficial.com slash newsletter.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Awesome.
And you can follow us on Instagram. We are I a podcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go.
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to spend with us and to listen to the podcast and we'll see you next week.
Melanie Avalon
First I thought you were talking to me. I was like, you're welcome. I was like, oh, no, no, no, but same, same to the listeners. Well, this was so fun and I will talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
See you next week, bye!
Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.
