Episode 427 – The Psychology Of Food Fear, Fasting For Gut Health, The Role Of Diagnoses, Restriction Vs. Intuition, Sleep, Light, And Stress, Mindset And Physical Healing, Confidence With Gut-Safe Eating, Healing Protocols That Work, And More!
Welcome to Episode 427 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
On this week's special episode, Melanie is interviewed by Dane Johnson on his podcast, How I Healed My Gut with Dane Johnson.
Dane Johnson is the Founder/CEO of Crohn's Colitis Lifestyle and a Board Certified Nutritionist specializing in reversing Crohn’s Disease and Ulcerative Colitis. Dane’s story ignited through extreme personal hardship fighting for his life from a fierce Crohn’s/Colitis diagnosis nearly taking his life in December 2014.
To date, Dane and his impassioned team of specialists have created the most success stories in the world for reversing IBD symptoms using his signature S.H.I.E.L.D. Program. His international IBD consulting firm is one of the few organizations in the world that only treat IBD, and see roughly 100+ international IBD cases a week!
He has successfully worked with kids as young as 3 and adults 70 years young! He has unlocked great success no matter a client's diet preference, medication use, past surgeries, or past failures using natural remedies. His team at CCLifestyle has successfully helped thousands of clients with life-threatening cases, severe symptoms such as 20+ BM’s a day, or chronic weight loss take their lives back by focusing on natural methods.
His passion, unique experience, and niche in the field of IBD have empowered him to create unparalleled value for real, long-term symptom relief for all those suffering from Inflammatory Bowel Disease.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 427 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Hi, friends. Welcome back to the show. We have a very special episode for you today. This is actually a conversation that I had on Dane Johnson's podcast, which is called How I Healed My Gut. He interviewed me about my story when it came out. We talked a lot about intermittent fasting. We also talked a lot about the role of mindset and your perspective when it comes to health issues, food fears, living a normal life, whether or not you should follow a restrictive diet. It was a really powerful conversation, so I figured it was a perfect thing to share with you guys on this show. And if you would like to hear more from Dane and hear about his story, he actually was on this show before. That was episode 364. We will put a link to that in the show notes. And now without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation in which Dane Johnson interviews me about my story with gut health and intermittent fasting.
Dane Johnson
Melanie, thank you so much for joining me today. Discuss your journey with functional medicine, biohacking after interviewing the best biohackers and functional doctors all around the world these last few years.
I'm so excited to share what you've experienced, what you've learned. Thank you so much for being here.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for having me, Dane. I seriously adore what you're doing.
Your energy, your motivation for people is so incredible. And then what you're actually doing, changing people's lives with the whole gut stuff. And I've been there, or I'm kind of still there, so I'm happy to be here and share with listeners.
Dane Johnson
Thank you so much, man. I'm so happy for today.
Today, guys, we're going to be talking about, you know, what really works in biohacking? What's the fluff? Where can our money be best spent? You know, how effective can restrictive diets be in your success? And where do you put rubber to road? So I'm so excited to dive in. And Melanie, I love you for this topic because, you know, I was on your podcast a year and a half ago, we were just talking about you've interviewed everybody. You've, you know, spent time with the biggest, the baddest, the smartest, most successful biohackers and functional medicine practitioners in the world. What has that been like for you? What are some of the biggest takeaways that you think have impacted your gut health in your life for optimal success?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's it's so surreal. Honestly, it's especially surreal because I experienced my own health issues, including predominantly gut health issues.
That's kind of what was the catalyst for sending me down a journey of a black hole of health issues. And that was before I I mean, was it before I was podcasting? Yeah, it was before I was podcasting. So at that point in time, I was just a consumer of all this information and a relentless researcher. So it's very surreal today to be podcasting regularly. And all these people, I was reading their books and absorbing their blogs and listening to their podcasts. Now the majority of them are my good friends, which is very crazy to me.
But yeah, should I start with my story or like what I've learned? Where do you want to take it?
Dane Johnson
Start more with what you were going through with your health and how that's transcended into starting to use these methods with diet and supplements and biohacking and nervous system, all this. But tell us a bit about your story and how you came to this place.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, sure. My first interest in the body came through the conventional typical method of dieting, so I was always trying different diets growing up. I was never overwhelmingly overweight, but I would want to lose, you know, a few pounds. So I would do things like calorie counting and crazy really had a profound effect on me until I tried a low-carb diet, and at that time it was Atkins. And that's when I first realized that changing what I ate not only could affect my weight, but also had these other effects on my metabolic health, my energy levels, my skin. And then I just got really obsessed with trying all the different things. I started doing intermittent fasting about a decade ago. That was a game changer for me, again with weight loss, health, energy, vitality, everything like that.
I adopted a paleo diet that even further increased my experience, and then everything sort of crashed and burned. I graduated from USC in Southern California from film and theater school, and I was high on adrenaline, loving life, and I started not feeling well, and it's hard to remember exactly what happened when. I do know that the gut issue started when I got food poisoning at a like a Japanese restaurant, and what's interesting about that experience was I got food poisoning. I remember I had like colonoscopy. I was very young. They didn't really find anything, and that procedure kind of like cleared me out and fixed me momentarily, but I felt off after that. I know that's a very common experience for people. Like they have some sort of, you know, catalyzing event, and then they never quite feel the same. So after that I felt off. I got diagnosed with SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and from there I got prescribed Rifaximin, which is the antibiotic that specifically targets the small intestine to wipe out the overgrowth and the small intestine. So prior to that, I would eat food, and I didn't really think about it after that. Like I didn't think about if it was digesting. I didn't think about its transit time during my system. I just ate food, and then if I had a stomach ache or didn't feel well, I wasn't fixated on the actual food transit, what was happening in my gut, all of that. After Rifaximin, and I don't want to scare people away from it because I know that for a lot of people with SIBO, it actually really really helps them, and it's like a game changer. For me, it wasn't. I think I didn't have the, because I know there's like methane dominant versus hydrogen dominant bacteria and things like that, I don't think I was the candidate for it. So after that is when I started getting neurotic. Like I felt like food would just sit in me. I felt like I wasn't digesting it. I developed a, honestly, like a psychological complex surrounding it because I started getting severely worried about being constipated, about food not moving through me.
Melanie Avalon
I just felt toxic, and it was not a good time. And I've been seeing a therapist for years and years. And honestly, the reason I started seeing a therapist probably that long ago, you know, eight years ago or so was because I was like, I gotta tackle the psychological issue of this because I can't be scared of food. This is not this is not the way to live.
So that's also when I started really experimenting with diets like a low FODMAP diet, which I actually adopted and to this day works really well for me. That's when I started experimenting with digestive support and things like that. And it ended up being like a myriad mosaic of a lot of not good things that I had going on. So it wasn't just the gut. It was also I realized I had mercury poisoning, I realized I was anemic, I realized I had carbon monoxide poisoning from my apartment. So it was like a lot of stuff. But that ultimately led to my interest in the biohacking field, because I just wanted to feel better. So I was researching, I was trying all the things. And the more things I tried, the more things I found that worked. And I just started I started getting a desire to share all of this with everybody, which led to podcasting.
So that was a lot I can pause there. But that's like the journey that the dark part of the journey.
Dane Johnson
Yeah, and I know there's so much light in there, but you said some powerful things I want everyone listening to really take note because it's gonna help change your life and your perspective around inflammatory bowel disease Melanie they did a colonoscopy. They didn't find in diagnose you with something but yet Food fear still happened. You're still having chronic GI issues. You couldn't figure out still getting skin issues low energy You know going through periods of chronic diarrhea that would come or go or constipation But they didn't give you a name This is all the same experience that other people who've been identified as a chronic incurable disease are our feeling and are going through So the big point here is just because they gave you her name or didn't give you a name doesn't mean you're not going through Something real that's serious.
That's hard and And you won't still develop the same type of traumas, you know I think that's also what what happened here Melanie what you're talking about and I just want to hold space for anyone out there Who's you know has this has been identified as I have this incurable disease that even people who don't have that same? Stamp on their forehead by a doctor who just gave their subjective opinion Can still go through very similar experiences. We all Have our own health batters or struggles and we can learn from each other And maybe we're all not that different because I don't know about you Melanie, but for years it was Oh, I can't relate with someone like Melanie because they don't they a doctor didn't tell her she had IBD But in reality how much is the same and you said well, I had other issues. I had anemia I had heavy metal issues. How many people who've been stamped on the on the head with IBD have anemia have heavy metal issues Have skin issues have it may be histamine issues is all that wrapped up in the word IDD or the phrase so I just want to take this moment that we all can take our power back and realize it doesn't matter if Someone stamps you on the forehead with this diagnosis or not. It doesn't save us from what we're going through and we all have to take this Experience into our hands to become self-empowered become the CEO of our health, which I think Melanie what a lot of what you've done and We can relate just because someone doesn't diagnose with the same disease doesn't mean we can't learn from each other I mean Melanie you've put so much work into this without a diagnosis.
How did that feel for you? When you were you know, were you almost begging that they just called it something or were you kind of still happy that ah They're not giving me this name that I have to carry around like a badge of honor for the rest of my life
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I'm so glad you drew attention to that. And it's so interesting because, so I got the catch-all diagnosis of IBS, which is what they give you when they don't know what it is. And it's so interesting because it goes both ways. So on the one hand, people don't get the diagnosis they're looking for. And so then they don't know what to do. They feel like they can't take agency or they feel like they're being written off.
And then on the other hand, I think people can over identify with the diagnosis. So when they finally said that I had SIBO, I think I grabbed that and I ran with that and not in a healthy way. Like I started thinking, okay, I have SIBO. Like I just thought about it 24 seven. All I thought about was how I have this overgrowth of bacteria and I'm feeding the bad bacteria. And I went into this mission to kill the bacteria. I've taken all the antibacterials all the time, mostly natural ones. But it's like I flipped to the other side of fear where I felt like the label defined me. And I'm trying to remember when, I think I might've just come out of exhaustion, honestly, because that can do it. But I definitely had a moment where I was like, I'm not gonna try to like keep killing the bacteria for the rest of my life. I'm just gonna try to heal and focus on the good things I can put in my body rather than always being in this defensive fear-based killing mode of the bacteria. And that was actually for me personally, and it's a different journey for everybody. But for me personally, that was like, I turned a corner with that. And that was really helpful.
And I'm trying to remember, you know what, this is really crazy timing. It might have been reading Dr. Michael Ruscio's Healthy Gut, Healthy You. And the reason this is crazy timing is I'm interviewing him next week. And I was just like reflecting on how far I've come in that journey. But yeah, it's hard. So much of it is the mindset surrounding it and the identity and the labels. So you nailed it with that. It's so confusing.
Dane Johnson
This is something we all can learn from because maybe in today's episode, we can start finding more common ground than we ever thought was possible. We can take down dividers of labels and realize that we all have a human gut, prone to diarrhea or constipation or cramp or not feeling like food is sitting with us, right? Or skin issues or anxiety or poor digestion or malabsorption leading to anemia. Does the label really matter?
When we can all sit down and say, we all have a human gut. How do we get real results and how do we get imbalanced with that? You know, that's one of the answers right there. You said it, Melanie. You turned a corner when you let go of the fear and maybe a bit for you in that personal experience, it was becoming a neurotic nature of killing, killing, killing. Started finding a balance or homeostasis in your lifestyle that kept that SIBO more in line naturally. You didn't have to try. It just was because I, you know, maybe adding in probiotics or washing sugars or low FODMAP, intermittent fasting, all that can be really beneficial. So now it just became, you know, our lives, how we live, now we choose to wake up and go to bed and how we choose to eat needs to be something that makes us both happy and healthy. So that really says that needs to balance our health. You know, it needs to balance the gut. And that's what that turning, you found a balanced way where it was no longer work. Is that right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. I think for me, what really worked was a much more holistic picture and approach to my health rather than myopic view where I'm just targeting this one thing with these supplements or, you know, having a broader picture and focusing on my diet in general, what am I eating, what are the foods that make me feel good, and then focusing on broader things like sleep. I mean, I went down the rabbit hole with that and supporting my sleep and and all these other, you know, biohacking type things in my life that just make me feel and help me feel healthier. It's been so helpful.
And I've had to work on, I still eat, it's funny, like if you look at what I eat, it looks restrictive. I am very happy now with what I eat. I exist within the world of foods that I like, and it's what makes me feel good. And so there's been a journey there of there's so much like there's just so much judgment of ourselves and there's worry about what other people are going to think. And so I think just knowing what works for me has been one of the most helpful approaches.
Dane Johnson
Can we unpack that statement? I think this is something that will really serve us all.
Can we unpack that statement of, it looks like I'm on a restrictive diet that would make other people miserable. And when I tell them what I eat, it makes other people give you probably these wide eyes of how do you do this? But then you said something beautiful. You said, I'm in balance with this. I love it. It makes me happy and it makes me feel good. So again, no major diagnosis. SIBO is a state that needs to be fixed in the gut. IBS, as you said, IBS, IBD, a lot of it's, well, we don't know the root cause. IDK equals IBD or IBS, right? And you took it upon yourself to continue to go after a lifestyle that make you happy and healthy. So how did you go from I'm a normal person, you, whatever I want to, I'm now going to choose eating this way as a lifestyle. I'm not on a clock. I'm not doing a 30 day cleanse. I'm not, this is how I like to live and I'm happy here.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's it's really interesting because I'm reflecting on my journey through that and it's been such a long journey of making conscious food choices. So like I said, when I started doing low carb in college, that's when I started making macronutrient related food choices. So doing low carb. And then when I did paleo, that's when I started making whole foods based food choices. So only eating whole foods. And then I went I in college, I kind of did a carnivore stand again before it was before it was a thing. But that was more like an experiment. So it's been years and years of existing within food choice paradigms.
It's taken a while, though, to separate the label. So for the longest time, and I already said it on this show, I said I eat a low FODMAP diet at the same time. What I eat is like it covers food we would have eaten as natural hunter gatherers. So I don't even I almost don't know what the benefit is to calling it low FODMAP because that makes it sound almost more restrictive than it is. Because basically what I eat is I eat tons of meat, tons of seafood, like cucumbers, I eat a lot of fruit, broccoli, blueberries. So I'm eating a wider range of whole foods. And it's what works for me. I do like you mentioned it. I do deal with it. So if I go out to eat at a restaurant, for example, I have had to work on having confidence to just order what I want to order, which ends which usually ends up being like, can I have a steak completely plain, like not all the the oils and the and all of that stuff? And can I just have, you know, a simple like, you know, spinach on the side? And one of the hardest things I think with people who struggle with chronic disease and especially gotten health issues, there's just dealing with it yourself of feeling better. And then there's the existing in society. And how do you feel OK about that? Because the modern world is they eat a very different very differently often times.
Dane Johnson
You know, but I like, I love what you're saying about, it makes you happy. That is what I want everyone to walk away with.
I want you to build a nutrition plan that makes you happy and helping people and realize, just think back 150 years ago, there were no food options. It was this or starve. It was, we're gonna hunt this animal for meat and there was only a carbohydrate in the summer, right? Been that when, you know, photosynthesis were happening and the, you know, the plants are making glycogen and all the fruits and all this, all these vegetables, some of them. And so we've never had such options and that might be part of the anxiety is that we're supposed to have Korean food on Tuesday and Mexican food on Wednesday and a burger with fries on Thursday and then Friday's sushi. And it's like, this is, you need an iron gut, especially under the process of all this. That when you've been sick like me or Melanie and your gut's been injured, you no longer desire to eat foreign fake food that does not serve your vibrance and your ability to stand up and say, my gut feels good, my energy is good. I feel like I'm gonna sleep well tonight. I feel a good bowel movement coming on. That is worth 10 times more. And when you own that and say, I don't care what other people do, this is what makes me happy. And as long as my lab work looks good and I'm in a good place with my symptoms and goals, it doesn't matter. And you've done the hard work, Melanie, of getting to that place, of divorcing all of the social norms or social expectations of who you're supposed to be, how you're supposed to party and what you're supposed to order at a restaurant.
Melanie Avalon
I really I could not agree more. It's it's so interesting.
So you spoke about, you know, the the variety that we're supposed to today so we know we know evolutionarily that Variety and it's a double-edged sword or there's two sides to it because we do know that variety is Likely very beneficial for the gut microbiome. So there's that variety in plants and and whole food sources and at the same time variety in processed food Variety tells our brain to eat more because Work like from an evolutionary perspective if there was a new source of food It's a potential new source of food. So every time we get a new flavor a new Taste it's gonna make us want to eat more That's why people can actually they might be full and then they switch to a different food and they get hungry again like dessert You know like you're full but you can have dessert so I think variety gets confused with Like a healthy mindset approach to diet.
So people think if you are just eating a wide range of foods that that's healthier maybe psychologically When I just know for me and I'm glad that you're emphasizing the happiness part like I know that I'm getting the nutrients I need the protein. I need I think protein is so important and I'm eating real whole foods So if it's a slightly more limited list, but I'm happy with it Then let that be that's okay
Dane Johnson
Something also I think you've developed that we can put into words as a takeaway is nothing is stronger in knowing what's good for your body than a sharpened and seasoned intuition. When you spend time taking this and applying it, I think Melanie, you went on strict diets, you did carnivore, you did paleo, you done fasting, intermittent fasting, you done FODMAP. All of that has led to a sharp, sharp intuitive nature on what helps you feel healthy and thriving.
That's how you can get confidence and happiness because I think a lot of when you're saying I'm happy with my diet, you're saying I'm confident in the way I eat because I've already gone left, right, north, south, east, west. I've done so much. This is where I know I want to be. You are not easily influenced out of that because of the hard work, because of the dedication, because of the willingness to try. You didn't fail with those other diets. They were experiences that sharpened you intuition to get you to where you are now.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Also, just speaking on the intuition piece, because I just interviewed Dr. Stephen Gundry. His newest book is about the gut-brain connection. And he talks about the intuition piece because, especially with our gut and our gut microbiome, it's informed by what we're eating and it starts craving based on what we're eating. So, if we're eating a more limited diet, but healthy whole foods, we're going to be craving those foods and we're going to taste good. On the flip side, if we are having a more processed, standard American diet, we're going to actually intuitively crave those foods because the gut microbiome can send those neurotransmitters and make us actually crave those foods. So, the intuition piece to me is so fascinating.
It's fascinating how your cravings can change, your taste buds can change, and even your intuitive feeling can change based on what you're eating. But I can tell you, people don't believe me, but I am so happy with the food I eat. It tastes so good to me and I'm crazy. So, at restaurants, because I do intermittent fasting every day and I do one meal a day at night. So, just ordering one meal at a restaurant is usually not enough. So, I usually order two entrees and then I usually order for dessert, a savory dessert. So, I'll get like, I'll ask for like a shrimp cocktail for dessert or something.
Dane Johnson
Like, who is this young lady just hounding this food? I love that. Guys, this is a big takeaway. Make sure happiness is also confidence.
And if you don't have confidence in your nutrition, ask yourself, how much have you really dedicated yourself just to try, not just for it to work, we want it to work, but also to build the confidence on what will work for you and why, so you can build your nutrition plan, not just follow a diet. And what you're saying is so mega. And a big point of what you just said about Dr. Gundry, I crave a steak. I cannot get, I don't wake up. There's not a day that goes by that goes, man, I am so tired eating steak. You can give me a steak, a properly prepared grass bed, grass finished organic with the right type of salt, cooked the right way. That is gonna be, my neurotransmitters are firing all the time, just always firing because that's where I get that adequate protein. That's where I get those calories because I also tend to eat more restrictive foods. I'm careful with polysaccharides, the goons, lectins, Dr. Gundry's plan. I use a lot of his strategies around those grains and always complex carbs, polysaccharides is another name for that. And we learn these things. I think you're so right in what you're saying is when your body gets something that really serves it, it starts craving it. So I might start craving a little bit more sprouted stone grounded almond butter because I've been eating it more lately and my body goes, oh, that's a great source of certain fats or certain protein or calories that I wasn't getting before. Same thing with raspberries or, you know, arugula because if I have a lot of salads, my body might all of a sudden I might wake up one day and go, hmm, I feel like I'm on a salad. Like a low lectin, low oxalate salad that's been broken down with certain acids for better digestion, you know, that's cleaned. So I think there's a lot to what you're saying is when you really just try to eat really great food, your body will start craving it as it starts to switch to understand, oh, okay, this is my source of fuel now.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. I literally, one thing I love about for me practicing intermittent fasting is it's a feast every night for me and I literally look forward to it so much. I'm not like craving and hungry during the day.
I just, I love the fasted period and then I love the eating period and I love what I eat and it's great. So I'm going to keep on keeping on. I'm going to keep ordering those savory desserts at restaurants.
Dane Johnson
Can you share with everyone how you came to the realization that intermittent fasting was going to be a lifestyle for you? And I know it's just your experience, but what have been some of the pros and cons, how to really make sense of it for your life and integrating that when you were dealing with constipation or SIBO or any of those other GI issues?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so it's interesting because I started intermittent fasting also in college before any of the stuff went, you know, bad. And I was gonna just try it for a week was my game plan. I read a blog about it online. And I was like, I'll try this for a week. This sounds interesting. And I never stopped because it, it just was so helpful for me.
I loved that I no longer had what I really didn't like about even with low carbon keto and Atkins before fasting, that really helped my appetite and my cravings and things like that. But I still was always thinking about my next meal. And that was just such a big part of my mental capacity and energy during the day. And so with fasting, it switched me to where I didn't even have to think about that anymore, like the energetic load that was lifted from my shoulders from not having to make food decisions all day and not have to think about food all day, and then get to eat this, you know, feast type situation at night. It just really worked for me. I think a lot of people turn to intermittent fasting a lot for the health benefits, which there's so many and the weight loss and all that. But I think a lot of the unexpected benefits are things like the time you get back and the, the, the mental anxiety that goes away from not having to make these dietary choices. And there's just, there's so much there in that aspect. So that's really what kept me doing that.
Dane Johnson
I would love to also point out earlier you mentioned how when you ate food you felt off with it It didn't sick good you didn't feel good with it and that caused a an anxiety. Yes, and yes So when you're not eating you're getting autophagy, which is your body cleaning out the cells balancing the microbiome Right getting rid of zombie cells like senescent cells You are getting yourself pure bowel rest to optimize all those things You're saving the money you're saving the time But now you're building something for you I can see how that worked for you where it's like I don't have to have those feelings inside of me right now.
You could focus on your podcast. I mean You're reading these books. You're interviewing these huge guests. You're you're traveling the world doing all these things You've got a lot to do and so you get all the health benefits of I was told I have SIBO What if all this disease manifests into something worse? Imminent fasting helps to can control that because scientifically we see that people with imminent fast have a ton of benefits longevity Metabolics liver health gut health all of those things then you get rid of the anxiety and worried out of fear on the food you're eating and There's ways to do it where you actually feel more energetic How many of us eat and then we feel sluggish after eating when we thinking oh, I need to eat because I'm low on energy
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And that's why for me, especially with the, um, I eat in the evening and I sleep so much better on a full stomach. I was never the type I, if I could, I always say if I could change one thing about myself, it would be, I would change my circadian rhythm. I am not the, like the morning person, the eat breakfast. I'm just not that person.
I'm the, the late night, the late night owl that likes to eat late and all of those things and needs to sleep on a full stomach. So it, if I were to eat during the day now, and I've been doing this for so long, I, I would get so tired, um, and lethargic and not, not productive. So I found that the window of eating that just really, really suits my body works really well for me.
Dane Johnson
So I think there's a lot there that you found something that allows you to get back to work, be in balance is also still healthy or getting enough nutrients and protein and all this. And you're also helping to optimize your gut. I mean, the science is there around fasting. Should we be doing that with IBD? I think if you're malnourished and severely underweight, speak with your doctor before doing that.
I think there are some other ways to consider that, especially with me, I was 120 pounds from 100. There's no way intermittent. I couldn't intermittent fast. I had to have some calories so that I didn't wither away and have to go back on some kind of life support. So, obviously there are pros and cons. I think that's one big point that we have to make here is, when I interviewed you or you interview a lot of people, we always have this idea that this worked for me, it might not work for you. And what we're really saying is, when you look at these strategies for healing, you have to see healing like a chest match. The rule is, you make your move on the chest board based on how your opponent moves. And you never know your next move until you see your opponent's move. So it's a real time pivot. So when you say it works for you, it might not work for everyone else. That's because people are not understanding how to play the chess game of health. What are the pros and cons of intermittent fasting? And why would you consider doing it? Why would you not consider doing it? And you don't have to do it exactly like Melanie. But if you're dealing with some of these issues and you have a ton of food fear, you can get the same calories in a four or five hour eating window as you did in a 12 hour eating window. And that could have tons of benefits like it's had for Melanie here. What have been some of the big benefits you've noticed and why you've stuck with it? Like the top benefits of intermittent fasting for you that you say, this is me. This is why it's helped me and how it might be able to help other peoples who can relate with you.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And just to emphasize the individuality aspect, because you were asking the beginning, you know, what are my biggest takeaways in general from podcasting and being in this biohacking sphere and everything. And having interviewed so many people, there's just not one diet for everybody is my takeaway. Like if there was, I really think we would have found it. If there was one perfect eating window, one perfect diet, I think we would have found it. And I think it would work for everybody, but that's just not the case and not the experience.
So even so when it comes to fasting, again, I think finding the eating window that works for you is so, so important. And there's a lot of ways that it can be done. You can look at the, you can do it like a meal based thing. So you're only eating dinner, you're only eating lunch or only eating breakfast, or you're eating only breakfast and lunch, like, or you can do it by the clock, like I'm only eating between these hours, or you could do it based on I just want to fast, you know, a certain minimum amount of hours each day and do it more that way. There's a lot of different approaches. And you can also, you know, mix it up. So the top benefits I've experienced, there's so many. I think so one of them is what I was talking about earlier about not having to, not having to restrict myself when I actually am eating. So I have my eating window, that's my eating window, I get to nourish my body, viscerally experience the pleasure of food, just I get all the the benefits of eating without being haunted by this idea that I have to count calories or that I have to stop eating soon or that just that that's all gone. So I love I love that experience. I love the time that I get back. It's you don't realize how much time you spend when you're eating multiple meals and snacks throughout the day, but it's it adds up. So just having an uninterrupted block of time every day has been so so incredible for for everything in my life.
And the sleep, like I mentioned, it really, really helps with my sleep. And it really, really helps just in general with me maintaining my my health and my body constitution, all the things and the gut rest, like you're saying, because I think it's very, there is a lot of studies on fasting and healing the gut. And it can be very beneficial for we know that our our gut cells, they turn over very fast, which is good, because it means they can heal pretty fast. And at the same time, there's a lot of like the eating process is is inflammatory. Like there's way around that not like to a horrible extent, but it is, you know, using using the gut things happen down there. So having that that rest mode every day, especially if you're fasting, I think can be very, very healing.
And although I do want to draw attention, I agree with you that you know, people need to make sure they can get enough calories and nutrition, especially if that's what they're struggling with with IBD and such. But there's Yeah, there's a lot of benefits.
Dane Johnson
You know, for me, whenever I do imminent fasting, I've done three day water fasts and I've practiced a lot of minute fasting myself is if I can drink enough water and get enough electrolytes or earlier in the day, I have great energy. I have great energy and I'm one of those people that also has felt like if I eat a huge breakfast in the morning, which I used to want to do because I wanted to build muscle, I'm in the gym. So I'd have, you know, six or seven eggs and aching and a protein shake and all this stuff, but I felt so lethargic. My gut felt so heavy. And then the chance of me having to run to the bathroom more was just way greater. So there's a lot of benefit that when your body is ready, you can use intermittent fasting to save time, save money and potentially feel like you have more energy.
You know, what happens to the brain when you're not eating? Well, it turns on, it starts lighting up, looking for carbohydrates. That's what they say after 24 hour fasts, you're gonna start feeling like, whoa, I'm up, I can't sleep, you know? And so if you can get time, energy and money out of it, it's something you could consider. I think that there has to be a healing response for a lot of us or just talk to your doctor and do what's best for you. I think that's the best way of saying it, but a lot of real benefits. I thought I'd be a person who could never do intermittent fasting, but I found it like you, very, very valuable. And like you, I like to eat more at night. I like to go to bed. My heaviest meal is about 5 p.m. for me, up to 6 p.m., that's where I feel best. And when I don't eat a lot during the day, like it's 220 right now, and I've probably had about 500 calories, but I'm switched on, ready to go. And so it changes day to day, it changes based on where you travel. So wherever you are in the world, guys, realize that you can be flexible, you can move this. And as you get empowered, as you refine that intuition, you can change your plan a little bit based on what's happening in your life, if that suits you and if that works for you.
You know, question, I know we're running out of time here, Melanie, but last question for you. After all these interviews, over all this experience of biohacking and doing all these different diets and interviewing some of the best in the world around this, what have been some of the top highlights where you're seeing these world-renowned functional practitioners or doctors agree on? Like what are some of the highlights that we all should be focused on, right? What is the, are there any symbiotic nature solutions that we all say, yes, this is most important that we can do despite the nuances and differences we might feel about how to heal.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love this question so much. And it's interesting. So in the diet world for that, it's very limited. Like, if you if it's like, everybody agrees, eat war, you know, do it. Yeah, no, like, yeah, drink water, eat, I think probably for the food for the diet world, it would be drink, drink water and eat whole foods. I really think that's the only thing everybody would agree on.
Even like the protein front, you know, people will say, high protein diet is the best. And then some people will say high, low protein diet is best for longevity. So it's it's confusing. But I think I think probably one of the biggest things that people agree on. And I also think it's the most one of the most important things for people's health, including their gut health. And I mentioned earlier, but supporting our sleep, I think is so so important. And we are so out of whack and out of line today with our natural circadian rhythms. We live these, you know, sedentary, over processed lives stuck in, you know, collections of artificial light and blue light, which messes up our melatonin, melatonin production, which messes with our sleep. And it's just not it's not ideal. And we're very stressed. So I think addressing sleep can be so helpful. And there's so much agency that you can take there. And I have my whole, my whole protocol that I've created and curated over years of doing all this research. So, you know, I, well, it starts in the morning, I make sure I get exposure to bright light in the morning, and throughout the day, staying active. And then in the evening, I have my whole protocol. So I, I use blue light blocking glasses, those help those block blue light, which, which actually shuts off your melatonin production, which can impede sleep. I light my apartment with red light at night, it looks like the red light district, which is kind of funny. For my sleeping environment, I keep the temperature very cold. I actually do like the low 60s, which is pretty pretty cold. And then I use a like a cooling mattress to help with my body temperature, because we know that helps support sleep. I use blackout curtains, eye mask, and I, I wind down, I don't use social media at night. So I think really, really addressing your sleeping habits can be can be a game changer for people and their health. And I think, I think, actually, probably all the experts would agree on that.
Dane Johnson
I think everyone can agree optimizing your sleep is key to autoimmune disease, gut health, liver health, anxiety, cellular repair, growth. There is, we all can win with that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I definitely. And I think they also would agree on exposing ourselves to beneficial hermetic stressors.
So again, we're so sedentary today, we sit at our computers, we're inside, we're not moving, we exist in a very stable air conditioned temperature. So anything you can do that would mimic how we evolved when we were exposed to the environmental stressors actually has very beneficial effects on our health. So things like cryotherapy, where you're, you know, temporarily exposing yourself to very cold temperatures, be that through an ice bath or a cryotherapy air machine or a nitrogen machine, or even just doing a cold shower. So that's going to help with inflammation and boost mood and help regulate cortisol, or doing on the flip side, so like heat exposure. So having a sauna session, it's great for activating heat shock proteins, which have a longevity effect, and support muscle, it's great for detoxification. So I do that every day, I do sauna every day, I do cryotherapy every day. I think the things like that can be can make radical changes in people's health and wellness.
Dane Johnson
I love that, and I echo that. And guys, what she said, an environmental hermatic therapy. So, hermosis is a stress on your body that's just at the right balance that creates a healing response. Kind of like breaking down a muscle to build it to be stronger. Environmental heat, cold therapy, even something like pressure, atmospheric pressure, like oxygen chamber. That's my favorite.
I do sauna and I do H-bot. I've got it in my house. Those are like two of my favorite. And obviously exercise, walking up a hill is a type of stress on the body that when done properly, can have a healing response. I think this is really an important biohack everyone can take from today, is stop arguing about what we differ on and start focusing on being consistent on what we all agree on.
Let's optimize our sleep. Let's use certain states of environmental hermatic therapies where we feel ready to do that. I think another one, if I had to put one in there is I think almost everyone can agree that not snacking as often would be valuable, whether you're high carb, low protein, or vice versa, or whatever, your FODMAP or this, that. Giving bowel rest has its value. And then you have levels of that intermittent fasting or fasting, which you've shown and run a podcast on. And so these are things that can, I think we all could agree that sunlight, real sunlight to a certain level of exposure is going to be valuable, especially that morning sun with those natural red lights, that'd be good. You wanna use red light therapy, just wake up and go look at the sun. You got plenty of it right there. And oxygen, good water, clean water, not stored in a microplastic bottle, they see things all. Big takeaway today is what can you start doing that everyone has a consensus is gonna be great for us.
And that's really how I started. Not only when I looked at this, I was so confused. Like you, when I was on the consumer side, I was just reading everything. Everything was so conflicting. And what I said is, okay, what are the common pieces of advice I keep seeing over and over again from these practitioners I feel are full of integrity, full of trust, and have really helped people get results? What do they agree on? Let me start there. And- I love it. That's where you might, that's where you're probably gonna see the biggest ROI. And I know some of this stuff might not feel life-changing. Like, oh, it's not the supplement that's gonna change my life, but the consistency of good sleep, nervous system regulation, proper type of stress on your life or your body that's done therapeutically, you do these over and over again, you are going to see results. Consistency is worth more than perfection. Any last words, Melanie? Thank you so much for this awesome, awesome time and sharing your story.
Melanie Avalon
No, thank you, Dane. I, like I said, I just love, I love what you're doing so much. You're helping so many people. I feel so good right now.
I guess the way I always sign off my little, my little, what is it? Tagline? I don't know. I always say it at the end and it's breathe, be kind, you got this. So just taking a moment to breathe. You know, we didn't talk about breath work, but you know, everything, everything is okay and taking a moment to understand that. And then I just think kindness is so important and so underrated. Because you got this.
You do. You got this.
Dane Johnson
Amen. You got this, guys.
I'm going to put a link to Melanie's podcast, an amazing podcast. It's so good. You need to check it out. That's below. And I'll put a link to her Instagram and all the things below. Please connect with her, reach out so you can help change your life.
Thank you so much, Melanie.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you, Dane. This was fabulous. Thank you.
Dane Johnson
God bless, guys.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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