#499 – Are You Eating Enough, Hacking Fullness, Estimating Food Satiation, Buffet Problems, OMAD Struggles, Fasting Tips, Changing Your Eating Window, And More!
Welcome to Episode 499 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 499 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 499 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm great, and I'm so excited, 499. I could hear the excitement in your voice when you said that, that number.
Melanie Avalon
I know. It's so crazy.
Barry Conrad
It's very crazy, especially you, 'cause you've been here longer than all the co-hosts. So how does, how do you feel on the eve of 500?
Melanie Avalon
I feel like... Well, it's not really the eve of 500, but I feel like I'm just, I'm just being, just fact-checking that. I feel like this is the most consistent thing in my life for almost a decade.
Barry Conrad
Wow. That's a big thing to say.
Melanie Avalon
It's kinda weird to think about, like to have done this every single week. Not necessarily recording every week, but released, released an episode every single week with no exception.
Barry Conrad
Isn't that... That's amazing.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. There's... Oh, man. I'm having flashbacks.
Barry Conrad
Flashbacks?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Just to, like, some of the, all the highs and lows and stressful times and good times, and the good times and the bad, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Not the ugly, but there were some stressful times at the beginning, especially when I was, like, editing everything myself and doing it all myself. That was, that was a lot.
Barry Conrad
Learning as you go?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Yes, which I feel like is, like, the way everything in life is. Just figure it out. Figure it out. So what is new with you? You have been up north, upstate.
Barry Conrad
So I, yeah, so many trips. I, I did take a trip upstate, Mel, but most recently went to Vancouver Island.
It was, it was actually so amazing. It was honestly, I've never been... I've been to Vancouver before, but never Vancouver Island, and specifically Tofino, which is this, like, awesome tiny surf town on the west coast kinda thing. And it feels like you're going, like, to the edge of the world. Like, it's got, like, there's rainforest around it, like, enormous beaches, and the, and the ocean, the Pacific Ocean. It's so beautiful. It also feels, like, proper wild. Like, like, case in point, the rainforest. We went in for a walk in the rainforest. We went whale watching while we were there, saw-
Melanie Avalon
Did you see a whale?
Barry Conrad
Saw gray whales that came, like, feet up, like, uh, feet away. I've gotta, like, I've gotta, like, send you video. It was so extraordinary.
Melanie Avalon
They came to say hi? Like, they came up to the boat?
Barry Conrad
Pretty much. Like, they were right there. Like, when I, when I show you the video, you'll be like, "Whoa. Wowzers." And then they swam under the boat. It was pretty amazing, and seeing that, something that enormous surfacing, like, right there next to you is, you don't forget that. Everyone was like, "Wow." But also, one thing I didn't know about gray whales, did, did you notice they don't really have teeth? They, they have, like, baleen, baleen instead, like these plates in their mouths that, like, they filter food out of the water and, like, sediment.
Melanie Avalon
Like in Finding Nemo?
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I guess so. I, I just assumed a whale that big would have, like, these massive teeth, but they don't have teeth like that.
Melanie Avalon
I'm looking up pictures. Oh, yeah, 'cause they have, 'cause in Finding Nemo it's like, "Swim away," and then they go through that little, like, forest of teeth.
Not teeth, but that, like... Oh, yeah, I'm looking at pictures. Oh, that's so interest- Like a brush.
Barry Conrad
It's like vacuuming the seabed for lunch with these, you know, they suck up the sediment from the ocean floor kinda thing and filter out all the... But apparently there's, like, there's, like, 22,000 gray whales migrate through those waters, Mel, between, like, February and October, which is massive, but maybe that's what we saw, a couple.
Like, Tofino had the best seafood I've ever had in my entire life, no exaggeration, ever.
Melanie Avalon
What did you get?
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, Mel. Because it's so accessible, like, you know, 'cause you, you're right on the Pacific coast there, it's, like, nutrient-rich ocean water. So, like, even when we went to, like, takeaway, not food trucky places, but real, like, casual places, they had fish tacos and seafood tacos. From that all the way through to, like, sashimi and sushi, like, in a nice restaurant. The salmon and everything, it was all top tier incredible. Like, so good. I can't even say how good. Like, so impressed.
Like, more than New Zealand. Better than Australia, but in New Zealand.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, wow.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. It was, you would love it. Honestly, we went to the sushi place the final night, and it was just, oh my God, keep feeding me this sashimi and this... Just all of it. Just like, oh, I love it so much. And also lots of oysters, which you would have not liked, but we loved.
Melanie Avalon
Unless it was Rocky Mountain Oysters.
Barry Conrad
Advertise with that, that photo. But yeah, I just had the best time, and it's another, it also has so much history there, and- It's another one of those moments where, you know where you go somewhere that seems so remote and away from everything else? It makes you feel so insignificant in the best way, 'cause it makes you, your problems or what you think are problems shrink so much, you know? Which is amazing.
It was so great.
Melanie Avalon
When I think of Vancouver Island, I think of one of my favorite miniseries of all time.
Barry Conrad
What?
Melanie Avalon
Harper's Island. Do you remember that?
Barry Conrad
I don't think... Hold on, let me... I wanna look this up.
Melanie Avalon
I loved it. I think I watched the whole thing, like, twice. But I think they filmed it on Vancouver Island.
Barry Conrad
I vaguely remember. Like I s- I'm seeing the actors in the stills.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, my sister and I were obsessed with it.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh. Now that I'm thinking about that, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, there was, like, all the dif- that, like, forest, but beach, and wow.
Barry Conrad
It was incredible. It was so beautiful, and just, oh my gosh, I highly recommend it.
Melanie Avalon
How far is it from New York City?
Barry Conrad
It's kinda not super close. It's like a five-and-a-half-hour flight, sort of like from here to LA. But Mel-
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, it's that far?
Barry Conrad
Yeah. But Mel, I have to share something about flights with you.
Melanie Avalon
Okay.
Barry Conrad
The first day, getting there to catch the flight, the flight was delayed because of a storm, and then it was canceled same night. So we're there for hours up until, like, 11:30 PM, and then had to go home and do it all again the next day, which I j- I thought of you, 'cause I know the, how much you love flying.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, what a day.
Barry Conrad
What would you do in that situation? Would you get, like, a bougie hotel and stay close by? Or would you just say, "Get me out of here. Get me home. I can't do this. I have to go home"?
Melanie Avalon
So how far is the airport?
Barry Conrad
Oh, like an, like an hour.
Melanie Avalon
That would put a wrench in my entire plan. I probably would go home.
Barry Conrad
Yeah?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, to eat. 'Cause there wouldn't be anything to eat. Yeah, I would have to go home. I'd have to go home. Yep. Yeah, you guys went home though, right?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because how do you feel about food, airport food?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I never have. I don't eat there.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Or drink there.
Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to think if there would be... You know, probably not, because I don't like if you have a flight after that. Before I got... I remember, like, when I f- I remember when I first, like, started legally drinking, like, you know, 21, and I was like, "Oh, I can drink on planes." That, like, completely changed the plane experience for the better, I would say.
Barry Conrad
Why?
Melanie Avalon
'Cause I, I just like, "This is great. Take- It turns into a party." I remember, like, flying on Air France and, like, having so mu- Oh, I think... Oh yeah, 'cause I could have it b- under, when I was younger than 21 when it was, like, a European flight. Good times.
Do you drink on the plane? I don't now, by the way.
Barry Conrad
I'm not supposed to drink on the plane because of health reasons that you know of pertaining to veins and things. So I do my best to stick to that, uh, especially it's meant to be f- especially longer hauls, so try to maybe have a few drinks before.
I'm saying try as if, like, I should be doing that, but I've had a few drinks before flying before, but not really on, just to be responsible.
Melanie Avalon
If they had, like, low-alcohol organic wine on the plane and it, if it aligned where, like, I could at the end of the plane and then, like, the end of the flight, and then go home and eat, that would work. But otherwise, no.
Barry Conrad
It's a no from me. How are you? What's been happening with Melanie Avalon?
Melanie Avalon
I am good. Just keep on keeping on with all of the, all of the business stuff. When does this come out? So this comes out... Oh, this comes out on my birthday.
Barry Conrad
It does?
Melanie Avalon
Happy birthday to me.
Barry Conrad
Happy birthday episode.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, that's crazy. Oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it is crazy, 4/99.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That's crazy it's on my birthday. Wow. I- it's interesting, 'cause the, the birthday is gonna be around an event, two days after an event that... Are you coming, Barry?
Barry Conrad
I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Melanie Avalon
So listeners, one of my friends is having a wedding. The wedding is going to be in this historic theater here called Buckhead Theater, a very well-known theater. And the wedding, there's gonna be, like, a short ceremony, and then there's, like, a band playing, but it's, it's b- it's gonna be one of these, one of the, like, well-known local theater actors here who has a band. And then there's gonna be a full two-act, two-hour musical cabaret with an intermission, and it's gonna be all of the, like, really amazing, um, local talent here that is in all the professional theaters, and they're all just gonna sing, like, a song. And I think the bride, she's actually gonna sing, I think, three songs and, like, do duets and stuff. Then there's gonna be an, a dance. It's gonna be the best wedding ever.
I am so excited.
Barry Conrad
I mean, it does sound very festive and very fun. So listeners, basically, Melanie's pressuring me on air to come to the come to this thing. Basically, no shame, like she's saying, "Are you gonna come?" 'cause she invited me. So I am trying to make it happen, so stay tuned, please.
But I am seriously trying.
Melanie Avalon
It'll be really epic.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm.
Melanie Avalon
Isn't that an epic wedding, though? I'm so excited. It's gonna be the best.
Barry Conrad
It is. Like, it is epic.
It does sound very fun, and especially for both people to want that, 'cause that would be really bad if, real bad if one, one of the people wanted that and the other one didn't, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, if you don't come, I might have to invite somebody else.
Barry Conrad
Which I think you may. I may know who you're talking about. All these cryptic things that we're saying on here.
Melanie Avalon
It's so funny. There's, like, there's, like, a lot of people I could invite, and there's also, like, a lot of people I just could not invite. I'll just leave it at that.
Barry Conrad
Yes. I know, I know what you're saying.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so get your tux ready, okay?
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. Is that, is that the dress code, tux?
Melanie Avalon
We want this to be a formal event. Think about how you would have dressed for the theater in the 1940s or 1950s. Nobody wore jeans, and everybody dressed up.
Think warm, fall, moody colors. Pastels and fluorescents are not preferred. Women, floor-length gowns encouraged, but certainly not required. Men, button-down shirt and dress pants. Feel free to add a snazzy coat and tie if you wish. No jeans, flip-flops, tennis shoes, or athletic wear please.
Barry Conrad
Also, who would, who in their right minds would disrespect anyone's wedding by showing up in flip-flops and jeans? Come on, guys. That should go without saying. Come on.
Melanie Avalon
The current generation.
Barry Conrad
You know, I'm all for jeans, but at a wedding you gotta show up and show out, and I do like the idea of, like, what they've said about for the dudes, like a button-down shirt. Like more relaxed, but then still, still bringing it, but relaxed. I like that. I like that a lot.
Melanie Avalon
It's not... I wouldn't... I don't know. What do you think is more of a faux pas, if you wore flip-flops and jeans or if a woman wore white?
Barry Conrad
Oh, man. Also, do you know, like which woman, what woman out there would ever do that? Is that a thing?
Melanie Avalon
I've seen it. That's why, that's why I'm saying it.
I saw, I remember I saw, sh- I wouldn't consider, she's not necessarily a friend, but somebody I knew. And I was looking at an Instagram of her going to a wedding and she was wearing, like, a white gown, and I, I was like... I looked at it for so long. I was like, "Am I, am I missing something here? Did nobody tell her you're not supposed to do that?"
Barry Conrad
That's really funny.
Melanie Avalon
That's a hard no.
Barry Conrad
It's a hard no. I think, you know, I think that takes the cake, even though jeans and flip-flops are, like, not, not the deal. Like, you just can't do white. You just can't.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. But, or what it... Okay, do you think you can do white if the bride's not wearing white? Like, I had a friend that did a Gothic wedding and she had, like, a black wedding dress.
Barry Conrad
I think that's different. I think that is, that is... Okay, that is, to be fair, different.
Melanie Avalon
I wouldn't wear white. It's not my color.
Barry Conrad
I don't think I've seen you... Oh, actually, have I seen you wear, like, a light...? I'm pretty sure. Like, haven't you worn, like, a light-ish kind of dress? Maybe not white, but, like, light.
Melanie Avalon
I do have this dress that's, like, light pu- light purple. I've actually been thinking that I need to bring it out again, 'cause I haven't. That might be what you're thinking of if you've seen it.
Barry Conrad
Also, Melanie, talking about dressing up and things, it's not even that far away, which is Halloween, which is quite scary to even think that. Pun intended.
Melanie Avalon
Well, that'll be over by the time people listen to this, but yes, hope it was fun. I love Halloween.
Barry Conrad
I know, and this, we gotta talk all about that because this time, 'cause remember last time I didn't really dress up. This has to be different this year. But we'll get into that later.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, perfect. Well, on that note, shall we jump into some fasting-related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Do you have a study for us this week?
Melanie Avalon
I do, and I'm very excited about this study. So this, this study was published in Appetite, the journal Appetite, in 2015, and it is called Effects of Meal Variety on Expected Satiation: Evidence for a Perceived Volume Heuristic. Okay, so what does that mean? This is actually f- really, really fascinating, and I would be curious, Barry, if you think this tracks with, like, your experience with eating.
So the idea about this was to look into how variety in our meals increases how much people eat. So that's been known to be a thing. So, like, past studies have found that meal variety can increase around 29% in humans, like they eat, like, 29% more, and in animals, like, 25% more. And so this study was looking into, like, why does that happen, and does it have to do with, like, the size or the, like, the number of foods, or d- and does it matter, like, if you have had the food before? So what they proposed, they thought that when a plate has a lot of different foods on it, that it becomes harder for your brain to estimate how filling it'll be. So instead of doing that, we default to a mental shortcut based on fullness once it, like, hits a certain si- sorry, ba- based on, like, the physical space once it hits a certain size. So I'll talk about it in more detail. So the way they set it up was there were 68 people in the study. It was 36 women and 32 men. Average age was 31.4. Average BMI was 23. They had no vegetarians or vegans, no- nobody with food allergies, and nobody with an eating disorder in the past six months. And then they had six... Uh, this must have been in the UK. So they had six classic UK cold buffet foods. So they had sausage rolls, cocktail sausages, vol-au-vents, scotch eggs, cheese and pineapple, salmon and cream cheese blinis, and everything was calorie-matched. So everything was the same. They were all around 55 calories for, like, each thing. And then they would have different plates, and there would be six items on the plate. So it would any- anywhere from, like, six of the same food, so, like, no variety, or six different foods, which would be, like, variety level six. And then they would also rotate the food. And people would basically, um, they would, like, look at the plate, and then they would tell ... Let, hope this makes sense. They would match it to, like, a portion of rice about how equally full it would make them. So basically they would, like, look at the plate and they'd be like, "I think this would be the same as eating this much rice for how full I'm gonna feel." Does that make sense?
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. And so then they also did the same thing with volume, so they did the exact same setup, but they had people match for equal volume rather than equal fullness. And so what they found was that so when there was not a lot of variety in the meals, what the people thought about how full they would be and what they thought about how much volume there was was very, very different. So it, it wasn't just about, like, how much space was on the plate.
Like, th- they, they were actually, like- ... see, so like when it was like one food, they were a lot better at, or they were like thinking more about how it would make it, make them feel, and it wasn't about like the amount. It was more about like the food itself. But when there was a lot of different foods, so like four or more, then volume and how they felt basically matched up. So basically like once there was like enough food on the plate where it was like too complex, people stopped thinking about like, "Is this food gonna make me feel?" And they literally just switched over to like, how big is it? So basically the more, a- and the more that, the more variety there was, the more people expected to feel less full. So if there was like a lot of different food on the plate, even the exact same total amount of calories as one plate of, of, of one type of food, they thought that they wouldn't feel as much, they wouldn't feel as full when there was like a lot of different ones. But if it was like all of like one food, they thought they would feel more full. And then the familiarity also mattered. So if they were not familiar with the food, they almost immediately switched over to the volume way of looking at it. So like if they hadn't had the food before, they really just thought they would be full based on like how much was on the plate. But if they'd had the food before, then they could, they more accurately judged like how they were gonna feel. It wasn't about how much was on the plate. So basically, the less you know about a food, the more you just go based on like how much is there on the plate, or how full will it make you. So to like say it all in like what was happening was basically that, so if you're like getting food and there's, if there's just one food, then you're probably gonna judge how full it's gonna make you based on the actual food, not based on how much of the food there is, and you're probably gonna think it's gonna make you fuller faster. But if there's lots of foods, then you kinda just go based on how much stuff is on the plate. And in particular, if you don't know the foods, then you kinda just go based on how much is on the plate. So there's like so many different like implications here. So basically, you know, we can think about how it applies to like buffets or tasting menus or holiday spreads or sampler batters or sa- sampler pat- platters. So, you know, if, if you're at a buffet and there's like all this variety, you're basically just like thinking about volume. You're not even thinking about like how the individual foods are gonna affect you.
Melanie Avalon
Or if it's like a tasting menu where you're getting like all these foods you haven't tried before, you're probably going to underestimate how full they're gonna make you feel. You're probably gonna go based on size rather than like if you know how the food makes you feel. There's like just a lot of, a lot of, um, things here, a lot of things to think about.
Barry Conrad
So crazy. Like this, it's so interesting 'cause I guess that's one of the reasons why buffets are so dangerous, right?
'Cause you're not just eating 'cause you're hungry necessarily, you're basically responding to like the environment, like the constant stream of novelty foods and stuff like that. And I, I think it's really crazy how satiety isn't just what, it's not just what's happening in your, in your stomach, you know? There's, there's also the psychological expectation of like how satisfied you're gonna feel when you eat it. Like you're already deciding it, and that has such a big part to play in it. And we often think like of appetite as purely, oh, just biological. But this, what you're sharing, Mel, is that what we see and what we anticipate enjoying and eating is gonna, it can influence our expectations. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. N- it's... And what I really like about the brain getting, not getting lazy, but it's basically like, okay, if it's just a few foods and you've had them before, the brain will be like, "Okay, I've had this before. I know how it makes me feel.
I can maybe add together, you know, if it's three foods I've had before, okay, I can kinda gauge how full I'm gonna be." But w- nope, once you hit four foods, the brain's like, "That's too much to calculate, so we're just gonna look at how much is actually on the plate," whether or not that matches up with calories. And, and if you're not familiar, then that happens like pretty soon. So like if you're, if you're not familiar at all, if you've never had the food, n- the brain is just like, "Okay, I don't know, so we'll just go based on volume."
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And I also found, like what you said, you said something like we probably like underestimate like the idea of like, you know, if you, if you have more variety on your plate, variety on your plate, you can perceive that the meal that you're about to have is gon- is going to be more satisfying, even before you've even had it.
Melanie Avalon
Well, they found the opposite, that the more variety, the less you think it's gonna fill you up.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I mean it, but if it's a massive amount of food, then, then you would think it makes you full.
But the more variety, the less your brain can calculate. 'Cause when it's, when it's just like one food that you've had, you know how that food makes you feel, so the brain's like very good at being like, "Okay, this'll like fill me up." But when it's like all these different foods, the brain's like, "Eh, s- that's like a lot to take in, so I don't..." It doesn't like anticipate being full the same way.
Barry Conrad
So basically is what you're saying, like satiety I guess begins even before we eat then. It's like your brain's already making a prediction.
Melanie Avalon
All these decisions, yeah. And it's, so it's based on, it's based on the amount of foods, the familiarity with the food, and the volume of the foods. And the, and the brain kinda like switches between like what it's gonna like think about the most based on the factors, based on if you're familiar or not, and based on if there's like a lot of variety or not.
Barry Conrad
It also is a reminder actually now that you're saying that, that eating behavior is, it's not just again the whole calories in, you know, calories out. Like there's a sensory situation, a psychological situation before the food even hits your stomach. You're already, there's so many decisions being made. It's not just that simple.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. And like, and like you said, so big problem with like buffets and stuff because now, now there's- Hundreds of foods, so there's no way your brain is gonna, like, be able to adequately figure out how full it's gonna make you.
So you just anticipate being not as full.
Barry Conrad
Do you... Well, this is, this is a silly question, but in the past, have you gone to a lot of buffets?
Melanie Avalon
Growing up, yes. They were the most magical thing. You know? Like, so good. You said you haven't been in-
Barry Conrad
Not here.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, you haven't been... So have you been, you haven't been to, like, a US buffet? I would be curious how they compare to Australia.
Barry Conrad
I'm only predicting this based on everything else about food here, that the portions are bigger, there's way more options. So that, that's what I'm guessing, but I do- I wonder how it's set up differently or if it's like seafood station, meat station, da, da, da, fried foods, um, Southeast Asian.
Like, you know, I don't know. It'd be interesting to see what it's like.
Melanie Avalon
You should go to, like, the quintessential US buffet chain, Golden Corral.
Barry Conrad
Why do I not know this?
Melanie Avalon
Do they have that in New York? Let's see. Golden Corral.
Barry Conrad
Golden Corral?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is like... Let me see. Yeah, there's one, oh, in Bronx. Yeah, this is like, this is, like, the, the chain for buffets if you want, like, American buffet chain. This is, like, what I went to growing up all the time, and Ryan's. Rest in peace.
I think Ryan's is gone. I don't know if Ryan's is back.
Barry Conrad
Corral Buffet. Oh, it's the Bronx. Okay. Wow. Looking at photos. It looks pretty hectic. Hectic meaning, like, so many options.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It's prob- it's so bad for you. It's, it's definitely not like a Four Seasons buffet situation.
Barry Conrad
But it's probably good if you really just wanna eat a whole lot of junk, but it's not good for you.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I mean, I literally haven't been in one since childhood, but we used to go all the time. You can probably make it work.
Barry Conrad
Well, there's... Um, you know what? I wouldn't mind going just to experience and say I've been there.
But int- interesting to see what they got there, and also how if this study comes back to me and I think about it.
Melanie Avalon
So yep.
Barry Conrad
Really good find, Mel. This is really interesting.
And also it does track, though, because when I used to go to buffets, you m- yeah, you are. You're standing there in front of a station. "Hmm, I'm probably gonna feel real good having this," or, "I'm probably gonna feel real bad having all that." You know?
Melanie Avalon
Yep. But again, if it's too much, your brain just p- taps out.
Barry Conrad
It taps out, like faints when it gives blood. Just the same kind of thing. But
Melanie Avalon
That's why I like, yeah, I like ordering my meal, limited ingredients. I know how full it's gonna make me.
Barry Conrad
A good type of prediction. You know? Yeah, I get that. Same. Great study.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Thank you. Shall we move into some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Let's answer some questions.
Melanie Avalon
All righty. So the first question is from Bethany, and the subject is food, not enough, too much, question mark. And Bethany says: Hi. I absolutely love your podcast. I have learned so much, and I look forward to listening every day.
Like most listeners, I have tried several diet programs, including intermittent fasting done incorrectly. I came across your podcast by accident a few weeks ago, and I'm so happy I did. I've lost 10 pounds and several inches since I realized putting stevia in my coffee was hurting me, not helping me. Clean fasting makes all the difference. People post questions on the Facebook page about not seeing results, and in the comments, people are asking, "Are you eating enough?" What do they mean by this? What happens if you don't eat enough, and if you are not counting calories, how are you supposed to know if you're eating enough? Right now, I'm doing a 18/6, opening my window from 1:30 to 7:30. I have a slow-paced job and get bored, so I find myself watching the clock, waiting for 1:30, not so much to eat, but to have something to do. When I do eat, I don't have a full meal. I try to bring a veggie, fruit, and maybe some crackers for my lunch/snack, but then I struggle to make it home to eat dinner with my family around 6:30. I don't want to increase my lunch or snack because most of the time our dinner is Chick-fil-A drive-through, which should start their own weekly delivery box, LOL. I thought maybe I won't eat during the day and just wait until dinner, but when I tried doing one meal a day a couple of times, I ate everything in sight when I got home. Chocolate, candy, chips. Everything easy, but not healthy. I have two little kids, by the way. I want to work my way to eating one meal a day, but I guess my body is just not ready right now since I have only been doing IF the correct way for a few weeks now. I'm seeing results, and I don't want to backtrack due to eating too much during my window. I appreciate any suggestions you can offer and look forward to your reply.
Barry Conrad
Bethany, firstly, thank you so much for your question, and congrats on 10 pounds and inches you've lost. That's huge.
I also love that you shared that it's not just about how do I lose more, it's, it's how do I make sure I'm actually eating enough while doing this properly, and that's really a much more important question than people sometimes realize. So when the people in the, the Facebook group say, "Are you eating enough?" they generally mean, are you taking in enough food during your eating window to meet your body's basic energy and nutritional needs rather than accidentally turning intermittent fasting into, like, a chronic undereating situation. Do you know what I mean? So Bethany, because when... Fasting and starvation are not the same thing. Intermittent fasting is when, is about when you eat. It's not, it's, it's not supposed to mean that you spend your eating window surviving on a few crackers, a couple Twinkies now and then, some fruits, some vegetables, a couple nuts, then trying to make it through the rest of the day on willpower. If you consistently eat too little, a few things can happen. So you may feel really tired. You may feel cold, dizzy, mentally foggy, irritable. Your exercise performance can really dive. Your recovery can really worsen. Your sleep can become really disrupted as well. You might even struggle to get enough protein in. Your essential fats and other nutrients, and in women especially, chronic-chronically inadequate energy intake can eventually affect your menstrual re-regularity and your bone health and your reproductive hormones. So that's not an argument against fasting. It's an argument against confusing fasting with under-eating.
So another very practical issue here, Bethany, is that if you barely eat all day and then arrive home absolutely ravenous, surrounded by easy-to-grab foods with two young kids in the house, that is not a character flaw. That is a predictable setup for overeating.
So your body is trying to compensate for the fact that it just hasn't received enough energy. Your experience with OMAD is actually telling you something useful. You tried eating one meal a day, and instead of feeling satisfied and calm, you arrived home and you wanted to go crazy in that pantry, the chocolate, the candy, the chips, everything else available. That does not necessarily mean your body is, quote-unquote, "not ready for OMAD" in a permanent sense. It may mean, because I know that you said you've done it for a few weeks, fasting now, it may mean that one meal is currently a bit too restrictive right now for your schedule, right now for your appetite, your energy needs, or your ability to comfortably get the nutrients that you need in one sitting. And there's really no prize or gold medal for getting from eighteen six to OMAD. I mean, physiologically, the, the research doesn't show that everyone must progressively compress their eating window to achieve better results.
Barry Conrad
IF can work through lots of different schedules, and the best schedule is the one you can sustain because it's got to work for your life and, and for your body, and one that you can sustain while you get enough in there. You're eating adequately. And in fact, a twenty twenty-three systematic review and meta-analysis found that there's no clear evidence that, you know, if you're, if you're fasting consistently that it's gonna suppress hunger more effectively necessarily. Like, you, you're still gonna get hungry now and then. You may cut out the food noise, reduce your food decisions or whatnot, but, you know, if you're gonna put yourself in a situation with all, all that food around you, the candy or whatnot, it's definitely still going to make you wanna eat it.
So would I not make OMAD your immediate target? Maybe not. Maybe I would make your first current eighteen six work properly for you. I mean, right now, your lunch sounds more like a snack than a meal. You're saying, like, a vegetable, fruit, and a few crackers. They may be l-like lovely foods, but I think depending on the portions, that could be... They're pretty low in protein a-and, and energy. So you're expecting yourself to make it through to dinner, often a drive-through meal, without becoming really hungry. I w- I'd make lunch more substantial, Bethany. So not, not necessarily massive, but definitely up that protein. So things like, I would go eggs. You can even boil, boiled eggs and keep them in a Ziploc bag. I used to love doing that. Like, whenever I'd do, like, a, a show during the day, I'd have the Ziploc bag with eggs, and I'd put it in the fridge. Greek yogurt, chicken, turkey, cottage cheese, um, tofu, whatever you enjoy. Like, include some healthy fat in there, some satisfying carbohydrate sources if you need it. The goal is not just to eat as little as, as you can. The goal is to arrive at dinner feeling hungry, but not ravenous, not desperate to eat everything in sight. And you do not have to, you do not have to, like, increase your lunch by adding hundreds and hundreds of calories either. You might be hearing this advice and go, "Well, Barry, well, that's, that's too much food." Because listen, something, even something like Greek yogurt, for example, with some nuts and fruit, chicken or tuna wrap, eggs with toast, a salad with protein, those are pretty low calorie and very, very nutritionally dense, and they're gonna sa-satiate you way more than just crackers and fruit, you know? As for how you know whether you are eating enough without counting calories, you don't necessarily need to count every calorie. You can, you can use practical indicators. So what do I mean by that? Are you getting a meaningful protein source at each meal? Are you eating enough volume to feel satisfied, meaning, like, the amount of food? Do you have reasonable energy throughout the day? Are you recovering well? Are you constantly thinking about food? Are you becoming really, really hungry at night?
Barry Conrad
Are you experiencing weakness, poor sleep, dizziness, declining exercise performance? 'Cause Bethany, all those clues will indicate, like, whether or not you're taking in too low, I think. And, and weight loss itself is also not proof that you're eating appropriately because you can lose weight while under-eating, but that does not mean the process is nutritionally sustainable, A, or really good for you.
Because I'd, I'd separate the two things, so hunger and environmental eating sort of thing. So you, you mentioned you watch the clock a lot at work because you're bored. That sounds partly like more habit and stimulating seeking rather than, like, genuine hunger. So you could experiment with making IF, like the fasting period, less about the clock because I, I like to remind myself as well when I'm getting impatient with things like a watched pot never boils. So if you're staring at that clock, it's not gonna, it's not gonna help you. It's gonna make you more hungry if you're feeling like that. It's less about staring at the clock and more about having something else to occupy that moment. So putting on podcasts, like our podcast or, or music, uh, do a task, go for a walk, have a black coffee or tea or a planned activity. But when you do open that window, make sure you, you do actually eat enough. Try not to respond to, to boredom by fasting harder and then respond to genuine hunger by trying to suppress it. Like, don't do that. So don't worry that making lunch more substantial will automatically undo your progress. The body's pretty resilient and pretty robust, so if you're losing weight steadily f- Feeling really good and eating nutritious food, Bethany, a more satisfying lunch may actually make the entire routine way easier because it reduces the-- just the chances of getting home and wanting to eat everything. You know, restriction doesn't automatically cause binge eating in every person, but th-there was a study in, in twenty twenty-six about restrictive dieting being nuanced. A newer review showed that rigid restriction, particularly when combined with negative emotions, food cues, and inadequate intake, is associated with bigger, greater risks of loss of control eating in some people. So my advice would be stay within that eighteen six for now. Build two proper meals, good meals into that window, lots of protein, and rather than trying to force OMAD right now, make lunch contain that actual protein that you need to carry you through. Keep dinner enjoyable and realistic, even if it's, even if it sometimes involves Chick-fil-A now and then. You don't need to be perfect. You don't need a perfect food environment to succeed, especially not right away. You j- you just started. And remember, the objective is not to see how little you can eat between one thirty and seven thirty. The objective is to create a pattern where you can fast comfortably, eat enough, enjoy your family dinner, enjoy your family time, and avoid and dodge the cycle of restriction followed by that uncontrolled grazing.
Barry Conrad
And if OMAD eventually feels natural and good, great. You can reassess it later.
For right now, your body's giving you some feedback. One meal a day is leaving you hungry, so pay attention to that info. Mel, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. That was extremely comprehensive, and I agree with so much of what you said.
Yeah, so just to, to echo back what Barry was saying, the eating enough thing. So like, like Barry was saying, basically a huge part of this is that what we do not want with weight loss is to have, you know, a rebound effect where, you know, you, you do weight loss and then your metabolism slows down, and I'm gonna talk about that a little bit, and then you rebound with a slowed down metabolism and you weren't nourishing yourself properly. The body's responding to the weight loss, and now you gain it all back and then some, and then it re- creates this whole like yo-yo dieting thing. The thing is, when you lose weight, your metabolism is going to, quote, "slow down" because when you're at a lower weight, you're not burning as many calories. It's just like it's just facts because there's less of you to, you know, be supporting that metabolism. So you don't-- it's not that we're avoiding the metabolism slowing down. What we want to avoid is that slowing down too much, being too restrictive, never giving the body the full signals that it needs, so n- then it's in like a scarcity mindset, then it's, you know, holding on to energy and again can lead to this like rebound effect. What's really interesting though, and we were talking last week a little bit about the GLP-1s, I think something we can learn from that is, you know, people will say, "If you don't eat enough, you won't lose weight." And I've always thought that that's not exactly accurate because when people will say like, "Oh, the reason you're not losing weight is because you're not eating enough." If you actually aren't eating enough and you continue with that, you will lose weight. It's just like thermodynamics. And I think that's what we see with the GLP-1. So all these people are taking in extremely low calorie amounts because their hunger is just gone. And do they not lose weight? No, they, they lose weight pretty rapidly. Like people are losing weight left and right. So I don't want to say it's an excuse. To lose weight, I would not say the answer is eat a lot more. Like that's kind of the opposite of weight loss. The answer I think is to be smart in what you're eating less of. So again, being very, very protein, like making sure you're getting a lot of protein because protein is going to support your metabolism. It actually boosts your metabolism because it actually has a higher thermogenic effect. So when you burn protein, it requires calories to burn it. So it actually has like a stimulation of the metabolism, and it's the food that makes you feel the fullest, and it's completely required and necessary to support your body. Like if you're not getting enough protein, there's the protein leverage hypothesis theory, which is that if you don't get enough protein, you're going to keep eating until you get enough protein. So your body needs a lot of nutrients.
Melanie Avalon
So if you're eating, you know, eating five hundred calories of junk compared to five hundred calories of nutritious food, the five hundred calories of junk, your body is gonna be searching for these nutrients it's not getting. So that's gonna keep hunger going and make you possibly overeat.
But if you get five hundred calories of nutritious food that's like filling up all the nutrients that your body needs, now your body's not looking for those nutrients anymore. So it's bothered me historically when people always say that. Oh, it's like, "Oh, you're not losing weight because you're not eating enough." I, meh, I don't think that that's accurate. I don't think that's necessarily always accurate. It's more that you're, you know, pr- probably not-- you're not eating in a pattern that allows for sustained weight loss and, and it could even be that you're eating just low enough where you're like keeping hunger at bay, but not enough to keep you like satisfied, and so then you're actually eating-- like it's like not enough to actually lose weight. So it could actually be like the opposite problem in a way or the opposite issue of like not eating enough. So yeah. So that's my long-winded way of saying that, yes, eating too little, your metabolism will slow down. It could set you up for a rebound. However, it's not the direct cause of not losing weight because if you are eating low enough calories, you will lose weight, and we're seeing that with the GLP-1s. So all of that to say, I agree so much with Barry about like-- Well, so Bethany, so you said that you, you know, only recently for a few weeks have been doing fasting, quote, "correctly," which I'm assuming you're talking about how before you were doing using stevia and that was, you know, messing with your hunger levels and things like that. So it's only been a few weeks. Like, like Barry was saying, you don't have to do one meal a day, and there's like no rush to get there. Like I would first fine-tune what you're doing now and then slowly move towards that. And yeah, a lot of what Barry said is, is what I agree with. So well, first of all, kudos to being like super aware about Eating out of habit or eating because you're bored, I would actually start there. So because i- if you're not hungry and you're just eating 'cause you're bored, that means that your appetite signals were down. You were probably in the fat-burning mode because you were, you know, your body was running on its, its own energy, and now you're just eating when your body is not necessarily needing the fuel, and then that can set up a rebound hunger, especially if you're eating like, like fruit and stuff that might be like higher in sugar. So then you get to your dinner, and you have a rebound hunger. You never really got full from the earlier meal, and, and now you're having, you know, this dinner with your family. So I like, I like Barry's idea where you could try having a more substantial meal earlier. However, however, like I just said, I, I don't really encourage like if you're not hungry eating for no reason.
Melanie Avalon
So I would maybe just like if you're still gonna eat those foods, yes, definitely consider switching them out for something that could have a more of a blood sugar regulating effect, more of a satiating effect. So like, like Barry was saying, like maybe like eggs and protein and things like that, and then, you know, keep on with your, your dinner menu or your dinner meal with your family.
And then something to keep in mind is that ghrelin is our h- our, our hunger hormone, and it takes a few days to adjust, and it basically is on a circadian rhythm. So and it, and it goes with how you've been eating. So like if you've been eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, for example, ghrelin will make you hungry at breakfast, lunch, dinner. And if you stop eating breakfast, it's gonna take a few days for ghrelin to stop spiking at breakfast for you to no longer be hungry. So my point is, so say that you're doing-- Here's my point. Say you're doing what you're doing right now, which is like you have your lunch snack thing, and then you have your dinner, and so you're doing that for a few days. And then you try not having the lunch snack thing. Now you're ravenous at dinner, and it, it could be because your, your ghrelin levels haven't adjusted yet. So it could be that if once you start trying one meal a day again, it could be that if you do that for a few days consistently, that your ghrelin levels will adjust to it, and you won't have that like ravenous response. Either way, if you're testing one meal a day again, can you not-- 'cause you said that you eat like the cookies and the cakes and like all the things, and that's what you wanna eat because you're so ravenous. Can you tell yourself, because this is very true, like those are actually just gonna make you hungrier. So they're not high in protein. They're very blood sugar destabilizing. So you have-- And they're like addictive, so they're not gonna fill you up. So could you, when you try one meal a day again, have m- make it mandatory that the first thing that you eat is very high in protein, not high in sugar? So if you're at Chick-fil-A, maybe having a lots and lots of chicken and, um, maybe like lots of grilled chicken sandwiches, and then like give yourself the permission to have those cookies and cakes after all that. And you might find that you don't eat as much and that you don't get the ravenous effect. Basically, your self-awareness is on point. You're very much aware, so you can definitely find something that can work for you. You're still, you know, getting used to the, the fasting routine, so just give yourself time. Yeah, I would focus on protein regardless of when you're eating. If you're doing one meal a day, open with the protein, and also be aware of eating whether or not you're actually hungry.
Another option would be I'm, I'm assuming when you eat at work it's 'cause that's when you have to eat, like you're-- wait, you're watching the clock. Wait. So I wonder, 'cause you don't mention-- I'm wondering when you eat at work, do you have agency in when that happens?
Melanie Avalon
So like did you decide that you're opening it at 1:30, and that's when you eat it? Or is it that you ha-- like that's when lunchtime is? Because like if it's on agency or you're like eating at your desk or whatever, I would maybe even try like just slowly condensing the window. So I don't know how long you're at work, but let's say you leave at 5:00. Instead of opening it at 1:30, what if you just go to work and you tell yourself, "I will have the snack, the broth, the veggie and the fruit, the crackers once I'm hungry," and it doesn't have to be at 1:30? And so maybe, maybe that's not until 2:30. Maybe that's at 3:30. Maybe it's at 4:00. Then you might find that if you have it a little bit later, now you're slowly condensing the window and, um, getting closer to the one meal a day that you wanna do, and you might have less of like a rebound effect because there's not as much of a time lag between the two meal, the two, quote, "meals." So that would actually probably be one of my biggest suggestions is like moving the opening of the window a little bit later in the day if you can, if it works with your job.
I would start there, and then you could do that for a little bit, and then you could try the one meal a day again once you've been doing that for a while. But you do wanna make sure that at least one of these meals at some point you're really getting that like full feeling 'cause we don't want you in a perpetually hungry state. That, that means it's, it's not set up, you know, correctly for you. So yes. Any other thoughts, Barry?
Barry Conrad
No, that was so comprehensive and so awesome, Mel. And hopefully, Bethany, what we've shared here is helpful.
Um, I'm sure there will be. And, and don't be so hard on yourself as well. Like you just as, as your email was saying, the biggest thing that I'm hearing is you just started, and you have all these expectations for yourself. It's okay. Things will come with time, and you'll settle into your groove. I'm confident about that.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, indeed. Well, speaking of eating, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast?
Barry Conrad
I thought you'd never ask.
Melanie Avalon
All right, friends. So this portion of the show, the purpose of it is to, like we were just talking about with Bethany, so much of the health effects of intermittent fasting is actually in the eating window.
So we like to celebrate the eating window by profiling and showcasing different restaurants and talking about what we would order at the restaurant. So Barry, do you have a restaurant for us today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I have a restaurant for us today, and it is called the Blue Water Cafe in honor of being In Vancouver Island. This one's from Vancouver.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, good. I was hoping you were gonna do one in Vancouver.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. So this is one of Vancouver's defining seafood restaurants, everyone, and in 2026 it was awarded the silver for best seafood by Vancouver Magazine.
It's famous for its seafood towers, pristine Pacific seafood, and signature sablefish. Wine list, serious contender, winning silver for the best wine program in an upscale restaurant and gold for best grand wine list at the 2026 Vancouver International Wine Festival Awards. So wine's on point for Mel, and the restaurant celebrated its 25th anniversary.
Happy anniversary. Giving you a nice longevity story without it feeling old-fashioned, and the vibe is meant to be, haven't been there yet, but it's meant to be sophisticated, atmospheric.
Melanie Avalon
You did not go.
Barry Conrad
No, I didn't go, but 'cause this was in Vancouver and we went to Vancouver Island, but you know what? It's still in honor of being in that part of the world, and I endeavor to go back and try this place.
So should we have a look at the menu?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. I like one of the pictures a lot.
Barry Conrad
Okay.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so dinner.
Barry Conrad
So we got a whole lot there. She's got... There's so many. So have a look-see before we even start, Mel. You can see there's a whole lot.
There's from the pastures, there's steak cuts, there's from the waters, there's rolls, like sushi roll. Like, and this is the thing that really stood out to me about places there in general. There's a lot of sushi around in restaurants 'cause it... I guess there's so much seafood. Chilled seafood as well. Okay, let's start with the firsts.
Melanie Avalon
First. First, first, first. Okay. I would like... I have to look up something. Hold on.
Barry Conrad
You gonna check the mercury levels? How do I know that? It's so crazy.
Melanie Avalon
I'm actually not sure because I know... Okay, good. Okay. I want half of one of the plates if you would like the other part. Wait, let me look something up. Hold on.
Barry Conrad
Is this the seafood tasting for two?
Melanie Avalon
No.
Barry Conrad
The albacore tuna and steelhead trout tartare?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. So the albacore tuna and steelhead trout tartare. I would like the steelhead trout tartare. Would you like the albacore tuna tartare?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
So it's Pacific albacore tuna with green onion, sesame, and ponzu sauce, nori tempura. Oh, gosh, Lake Diefenbaker steelhead trout with lemon caper dressing and tomato crostini.
I would just c- I just want some plain trout tartare and everything else can, you know. If you want it, it can be there on the side watching.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm.
Melanie Avalon
Think if I want anything else. I think I might, I think I'll... Wait, do they have a sh- do they have shrimp cocktail? Oh, they have a seafood tower.
Barry Conrad
They have a shrimp salad. They have a seafood tower. That, too, I was looking at.
Melanie Avalon
Actually, I changed my mind. So the seafood tower, we gotta get that 'cause it's got for you Pacific oysters, and then it's got the, the jumbo prawns. Oh, it's prawns. There's my shrimp cocktail, but is it shrimp or prawns? We don't know.
And then poached mussels and clams, and you know I, I wanna try the mussels and I wanna try the clams, so this is perfect. Seared red tuna, you can have that. Jellyfish salad, no. But then it's got the trout tartare, and it's also got bay scallops if you eat, which I want. So that's, uh, I feel really good about that, that choice.
Barry Conrad
You know what I'm gonna get, which might seem gratuitous, but I don't care? Is, get the Blue Water Cafe Tower.
Melanie Avalon
Well, now we don't get the Seafood Tower 'cause that is just that with more.
Barry Conrad
Because it's Seafood Tower with spicy tuna roll. Yeah, so I guess it's that with more, so I recommend she get that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so sorry, waiters. We cancel the Seafood Tower. We upgrade it to Blue Water Cafe Tower.
Barry Conrad
It's got everything that Melanie just listed, but it's got spicy tuna roll, Dungeness crab roll, tuna gourmet, and the whole chilled one-pound lobster.
Melanie Avalon
I dreamed last night about lobster.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Trying to remember. I go, I was, like, really excited because I, th- there was like a... I don't know. What was it? It's coming back to me.
I think there was, like, some sort of restaurant situation and food, and then I found, like, at the very bottom, like, lobster tails, and I was so excited. It's a sign that I need to have a lobster tail.
Barry Conrad
It's just also a sign for me because you're reminding me that I have on my to-do list to find a lobster t- to find lobster and to learn how to make really good lobster, so thank you for that reminder.
Melanie Avalon
You're welcome. Okay, I feel, I feel solid. So we're j- we're just gonna get the Blue Water Cafe Tower, right?
Barry Conrad
That's plenty.
Melanie Avalon
Think that covers everything. It's essentially, like, the entire first menu.
Barry Conrad
Do you know what? Actually, before we move on, and we haven't really done this before.
Melanie Avalon
What?
Barry Conrad
Let's go to the wine real quick and look at what we can have with the start.
Melanie Avalon
Are you becoming, like, a wine connoisseur?
Barry Conrad
No, because I'm saying, like, we never really do this, but normally what I would do-
Melanie Avalon
You want a white wine to start
Barry Conrad
... I would always get a, a drink to start with the start. I would never just eat and then drink at the end. You know what I'm saying?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we, we've been going out of order.
Barry Conrad
We never really... We only, like, drink, choose drinks at the end, but I would wanna get what I wanna have with what I'm having at the time.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we should change that. Look at us changing it right now. Okay, so view the wine list.
Barry Conrad
Quite a lot.
Melanie Avalon
So listeners, friends, little, little tip for you. If you are out and about at a restaurant, have a wine list, you should get the Purevine app, which I created. Go to purevine.app, P-U-R-V-I-N-E dot A-P-P. Use the code IFPODCAST to get 10 free welcome points. You will be able to type in, like, or scan the bottles or put the wines in the app, and it will research them for you and tell you if they are organic or low alcohol or lower in sulfites, all the things. And you can, like, make your own notes and save them to your personal wine cellar, so check that out.
This wine list is... Wow, the by the glass. Okay, okay, so many things about this wine list. It's massive. I love when they have different pour options. So, like, a lot of the glasses, they have 2.5-ounce pours. I love when they have smaller pours. 'Cause then you can, like, try different things. But they also have... So they have, they have 2.5 ounce pours, five ounce, five ounces, which is a standard glass, or you can get a carafe, 17 ounces, or you can get a bottle. That's so cool. And they have so- and they have, they have a, a list of Coravin ones, which is great, which you know what Coravin is, right? I told you.
Barry Conrad
You did tell me. Would, would you get that?
Melanie Avalon
Well, do you remember what it is?
Barry Conrad
Remind me again.
Melanie Avalon
So it's, like, a thing where, and I- 'cause I have one. It's where you can, um... I should get a, I should get, like, a listener code for, for, like, a discount code for listeners, but it's where you can... They, they can open up really expensive bottles of wine.
You can pull wine out of the glass without opening it.
Barry Conrad
Yes. Yeah, I do rem- yeah, I do remember you saying that.
Melanie Avalon
It fills up the bottle with argon gas, which is a, uh, inert gas that basically replaces, fills it up so that there's no air, and so the wine does... It's like you never opened it, basically.
Yeah, do you see what you want?
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. You know, this is one where I'm gonna have to refer... I'm gonna defer to the wa- the, one of the servers to say, "It's my first time here. I would love an amazing glass of white wine that would complement this blue cafe tower that you have here. What do you recommend?" And I'll see what they say, because it's just so many.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. This is actually, this is really it. So this is just by the glass. They have so many bottles for, for by the glass, so I would feel... I would have to look through all of them.
I would use my PeerVine app. I would wanna get something, uh, as per usual, something probably French, lower alcohol, 12.5% or less, but I feel very confident because they have a lot of European wines.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And we'd probably, I'd probably get, like, a bottle, I reckon, 'cause we'd probably nurse that, maybe not, not for too long, but we'll probably work on that seafood tower for a little while.
Okay, resuming dinner.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they also have a whole list of de-alcoholized wines. Interesting. That's for, not for me.
Barry Conrad
Also, Mel, when you, when you go back to the dinner, you're gonna realize that we missed something, but it's not, not to fear. You'll see something that you might have wanted.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm going back. The salmon?
Barry Conrad
If you scroll down a little bit below the blue water cafe tower, look at what you see to the right there.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, the chilled seafood? That's a different section, though.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. So you go down a bit. Yep, so chilled seafood. What do you see?
Melanie Avalon
This is a new section. The octopus.
Barry Conrad
Cocktail prawns on ice. It's, like, essentially their shrimp cocktail sort of thing.
Melanie Avalon
But we have that in the seafood tower.
Barry Conrad
I know. I know, but I thought, "Oh, we do."
Melanie Avalon
And oysters on the half shell. I thought you were think- saying octopus because-
Barry Conrad
Okay, let's... Do you want any tuna? You wanna try, uh, any sushi, sorry, I should say?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I see something from the sushi bar that I want.
Barry Conrad
Yeah?
Melanie Avalon
It's lovely. Do you know? Do you see it?
Barry Conrad
Sashimi platter?
Melanie Avalon
No. I don't see that. Sashimi platter?
Barry Conrad
You gotta scroll down a little bit more.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, man. I'm struggling with this scrolling menu. Oh, okay. Oh, 14. Okay. Oh, you can make your own platter. Oh, that's fun. Oh, I actually... Oh, I wanna do that.
But it's sad they don't have the... They have beef sashimi. That's what I was looking at, but they don't have that on the platter. I wonder if I get... Okay, for the platter, you get 14 pieces. Do you think they'll... Or, or for the ni- nigiri, you can do eight pieces. I think I would do the eight pieces, and I would ask if I can add the beef, but I would want... And that, I think that's what the picture was that I said I really like. Like, it looks so great. I would want beef. I would want two beef, two prawn, two salmon, sockeye salmon, two scallop.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I, I'm just... I wanna get the s- the sashimi platter for sure, and then I definitely wanna try their beef sashimi 'cause that's just unusual to see on a menu for me.
Melanie Avalon
'Cause normally they call that tartare, so what's the difference? Wait, we should... Wait, let's look this up. Sashimi is clean slices of raw beef with separate dipping sauces, while beef tartare uses finely minced or diced raw beef with mixed... Oh, wait, right. So I'm thinking... Oh, carpaccio. That's the difference.
Sashimi, they're both raw beef, but they differ in origin, thickness, and how they're seasoned. So beef sashimi is a jap- Japanese dish with clean, thick cuts of raw meat meant to highlight the pure flavor of the beef with minimal garnish. Oh, this is, like, what I want. Usually served with soy sauce and wasabi. Beef carpaccio is Italian with raw beef sliced or pounded paper thin, laid flat with olive oil, lemon juice. Okay, so, like, sashimi... Oh, yeah, capers, arugula, shape, Parmesan cheese. So sashimi is, like, where I'm at. That's, like, what I love. This is my place. I should op- I should open a sashimi restaurant.
Barry Conrad
I see that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so do we... Are you g- how about, are you gonna get some eel sashimi? Barbecued?
Barry Conrad
You know, I, I would, I would try it. I definitely would try eel sashimi, for sure.
Melanie Avalon
The scariest animal known to mankind.
Barry Conrad
I would definitely try it. I just, I feel like this place is just giving me quality.
Melanie Avalon
I wanna go.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And then do you want any rolls down there? Like, there's chopped scallop. There's-
Melanie Avalon
Rolls means basically rice, right? No.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Don't want any of that? Okay, we can go down.
Melanie Avalon
You didn't? No?
Barry Conrad
Ah. I think I wanna try maybe the stamina and the lobster. I love lobster, so lobster's mango, avocado, lobster salad, and one omelet crepe. And then stamina, I love that name.
Fresh crab, cucumber, barbecued eel, and smoked salmon. Oh, wow, sweet soy glaze. Let's go. That sounds so good. That sounds very, very good. And then s- let's scroll down to the from the waters 'cause I see something.
Melanie Avalon
So now we're to the entrees. The entrees.
Barry Conrad
The mains, as we ... From the waters, as they say.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I know what I want, although I guess it depends on what it is.
Barry Conrad
I know what I want. What do you want?
Melanie Avalon
I want the, uh, whole fish, assuming it's a low mercury version. Hopefully it's barramundi.
Barry Conrad
You love a whole fish. That's y- the thing.
Melanie Avalon
I love a good whole fish. I love that whole fish. You want... Do you want the lobster?
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Butter poached broccolini, snap peas, baby carrots, crushed parsley potatoes, tarragon nage, also available grilled and steamed with drawn butter. Very... I love this place.
Melanie Avalon
How would you get it? ... cooked the lobster
Barry Conrad
Grilled and steamed with drawn butter. That, that actually sounds really good.
Melanie Avalon
I'm getting flashbacks to being a server and having to get the drawn butter.
Barry Conrad
Oh, really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It's literally the most annoying thing because, A, you have to get the butter, then you have to, like, light the candle and, and then you have to carry it lit, and it's, like, topsy-turvy and you can't spill it, and, and you have to, like, plate it with, like, the lemon.
Barry Conrad
Mm.
Melanie Avalon
Every time people ordered lobster, I was like, "Oh, no, no, no."
Barry Conrad
But lobster is so... It's li- it's life. I love lobster. Do... I did it. I went to your worst case, your worst customer.
Melanie Avalon
I know. You just became that. Oh, man. Okay, and then from the pastures... Oh, which by the way, speaking of being the worst customer, do you tip correctly in the US? Do they tip in Australia?
Barry Conrad
They don't tip in Australia.
Melanie Avalon
So do you tip here right?
Barry Conrad
Yes, of- absolutely.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you know the rules.
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
There is no excu- like, honestly, I know... 'Cause, like, you know, we would have so many European people, and they wouldn't tip, and it's like, you should know. They play the card of, like, "I'm European.
I don't- we don't know." You, you know. You know. You know? You just choose not to. Okay, from the pastures, do you want anything from the pastures?
Barry Conrad
I want the Rosthern Farms chicken supreme, just to have that. It's foraged and cultivated mushroom ragout with fingerling potatoes, broccolini, snap peas, roasted chicken jus with truffle mascarpone. Delicious.
What about you?
Melanie Avalon
Would you ever go foraging for mushrooms?
Barry Conrad
I actually would. I'd go with somebody that I- that knew what they were doing, and I'd have a lot of fun collecting mushrooms.
Melanie Avalon
I think I would. You know me, I don't really like the outdoors. However, if I had to do an outdoor activity, I feel like I would... I- that would be on my list. I- that sounds fun.
Barry Conrad
Do you want anything from the-
Melanie Avalon
Pastures? I don't, I don't think so, but steak cuts. Yes.
So I guess maybe the... 'Cause I don't have a... Oh, wait. I had the whole fish. That was my entrée, my entrée. Maybe not, 'cause I think the whole fish... I think this is gonna be, like, a fish night for me, plus the, uh... Oh, but I know what I want for dessert. Yeah. So lots of fish, so I think I'm good.
Barry Conrad
Do you want any accompaniments? There's broccolini, spinach.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have... Well, they have... Oh, I love these accompaniments. They have ocean, they have ocean wise jumbo prawn, and they have seared sea scallops.
Okay, so yeah. I would, um, add... Well, I might be fished out by then. I might, like... I'll see how I'm going and how it's going, and then I might, like, add on some, some prawn and s- and sea scallops. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I think I'll do the same, but do you see what I mean? There's just an abundance of seafood.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm.
Barry Conrad
Okay. Should we go to the desserts? Oh my gosh. Here we go.
Melanie Avalon
I, I really, I really think I know what I want for my dessert, though.
Barry Conrad
Really? What do you want?
Melanie Avalon
Guess.
Barry Conrad
I feel like you're gonna have... Let me go up.
Melanie Avalon
It's something that I was, like, very excited about.
Barry Conrad
I think you're gonna go the steelhead trota.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, that would be second, but no.
Barry Conrad
Oh, okay. Not that one? Okay. The next one that you'd be excited about was the beef sashimi.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
And that would be great because I feel like this dish, I mean, sorry, this, like, night is gonna be very, like, seafood heavy, so then it's like for dessert I could, you know, bring back my, my true self, the beef. And then for you-
Barry Conrad
I'll probably get two things. Even though I could probably do more, but I'll probably do two.
Melanie Avalon
Can I guess?
Barry Conrad
Sure.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Do you want the warm dark chocolate cake?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Brandy truffle center, vanilla bean ice cream? Okay. And then the... Do you want the... Hmm, do you want, do you want the elderflower crème brûlée?
Barry Conrad
You got it.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, with roasted pineapple compote. Is it compote or compote?
Barry Conrad
Compote.
Melanie Avalon
Coconut meringue or rallies chocolate mousse. Are you impressed?
Barry Conrad
I am impressed.
Melanie Avalon
My heart, like, always, like, you can't feel it, but, like, every time when I'm about to guess, I'm like, "Oh, am I gonna get it right?" Yeah, I get nervous.
Barry Conrad
But you always get it right. And also I'm very impressed with this place. This place is very cool. I love it.
Melanie Avalon
We could also... It looks like they have, like, a lot of other restaurants in their umbrella company.
Barry Conrad
Yes, I do see that.
Melanie Avalon
Wow. Okay, I wanna go.
Barry Conrad
Same.
Melanie Avalon
Good find.
Barry Conrad
Shout out Blu Water Cafe.
Melanie Avalon
I know. Did you want... Wait. Click on bar. Did you want one of their cocktails?
Barry Conrad
Let's see what they got there. What have you got? Oh, wow. They all look quite classy as well.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, look what they have in honor of the story that you told. Do you see it? It relates to your Vancouver trip. Kind of. Kind of. Kind of. It's a stretch, but kind of.
Barry Conrad
What is it? Oh, layover.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Layover. Long times at the airport.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that was terrible, but what I will do is-
Melanie Avalon
And it's gin.
Barry Conrad
It is gin. I would probably get the Songbird, which is, has tequila in it, or we get the Smoke Show, which has, uh, mezcal.
So probably, probably s- both in, in whatever order, and then I'll have that bottle of wine that we ordered that the server so kindly suggested just sitting there that we could just pour from.
Melanie Avalon
Amazing. And I'll just have more wine. All the wine, all the time.
Well, good find, and listeners, friends, we hope you enjoyed your time with us, and we would love to hear from you. If you have questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode499, and you can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike, and you can follow us on Instagram. We are IFPodcast. I am MelanieAvon. Barry is Barry_Conrad, and I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
That's it. Thanks once again for tuning in, everyone. We appreciate you so much, and have an awesome week. We'll catch you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
Bye.
Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
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