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Jun 23

Episode 427 – The Psychology Of Food Fear, Fasting For Gut Health, The Role Of Diagnoses, Restriction Vs. Intuition, Sleep, Light, And Stress, Mindset And Physical Healing, Confidence With Gut-Safe Eating, Healing Protocols That Work, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 427 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC


On this week's special episode, Melanie is interviewed by Dane Johnson on his podcast, How I Healed My Gut with Dane Johnson.

Dane Johnson is the Founder/CEO of Crohn's Colitis Lifestyle and a Board Certified Nutritionist specializing in reversing Crohn’s Disease and Ulcerative Colitis. Dane’s story ignited through extreme personal hardship fighting for his life from a fierce Crohn’s/Colitis diagnosis nearly taking his life in December 2014.


To date, Dane and his impassioned team of specialists have created the most success stories in the world for reversing IBD symptoms using his signature S.H.I.E.L.D. Program. His international IBD consulting firm is one of the few organizations in the world that only treat IBD, and see roughly 100+ international IBD cases a week!


He has successfully worked with kids as young as 3 and adults 70 years young! He has unlocked great success no matter a client's diet preference, medication use, past surgeries, or past failures using natural remedies. His team at CCLifestyle has successfully helped thousands of clients with life-threatening cases, severe symptoms such as 20+ BM’s a day, or chronic weight loss take their lives back by focusing on natural methods.


His passion, unique experience, and niche in the field of IBD have empowered him to create unparalleled value for real, long-term symptom relief for all those suffering from Inflammatory Bowel Disease.


SHOW NOTES


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If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)




Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 427 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. Welcome back to the show. We have a very special episode for you today. This is actually a conversation that I had on Dane Johnson's podcast, which is called How I Healed My Gut. He interviewed me about my story when it came out. We talked a lot about intermittent fasting. We also talked a lot about the role of mindset and your perspective when it comes to health issues, food fears, living a normal life, whether or not you should follow a restrictive diet. It was a really powerful conversation, so I figured it was a perfect thing to share with you guys on this show. And if you would like to hear more from Dane and hear about his story, he actually was on this show before. That was episode 364. We will put a link to that in the show notes. And now without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation in which Dane Johnson interviews me about my story with gut health and intermittent fasting.

Dane Johnson
Melanie, thank you so much for joining me today. Discuss your journey with functional medicine, biohacking after interviewing the best biohackers and functional doctors all around the world these last few years.

I'm so excited to share what you've experienced, what you've learned. Thank you so much for being here.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for having me, Dane. I seriously adore what you're doing.

Your energy, your motivation for people is so incredible. And then what you're actually doing, changing people's lives with the whole gut stuff. And I've been there, or I'm kind of still there, so I'm happy to be here and share with listeners.

Dane Johnson
Thank you so much, man. I'm so happy for today.

Today, guys, we're going to be talking about, you know, what really works in biohacking? What's the fluff? Where can our money be best spent? You know, how effective can restrictive diets be in your success? And where do you put rubber to road? So I'm so excited to dive in. And Melanie, I love you for this topic because, you know, I was on your podcast a year and a half ago, we were just talking about you've interviewed everybody. You've, you know, spent time with the biggest, the baddest, the smartest, most successful biohackers and functional medicine practitioners in the world. What has that been like for you? What are some of the biggest takeaways that you think have impacted your gut health in your life for optimal success?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's it's so surreal. Honestly, it's especially surreal because I experienced my own health issues, including predominantly gut health issues.

That's kind of what was the catalyst for sending me down a journey of a black hole of health issues. And that was before I I mean, was it before I was podcasting? Yeah, it was before I was podcasting. So at that point in time, I was just a consumer of all this information and a relentless researcher. So it's very surreal today to be podcasting regularly. And all these people, I was reading their books and absorbing their blogs and listening to their podcasts. Now the majority of them are my good friends, which is very crazy to me.

But yeah, should I start with my story or like what I've learned? Where do you want to take it?

Dane Johnson
Start more with what you were going through with your health and how that's transcended into starting to use these methods with diet and supplements and biohacking and nervous system, all this. But tell us a bit about your story and how you came to this place.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, sure. My first interest in the body came through the conventional typical method of dieting, so I was always trying different diets growing up. I was never overwhelmingly overweight, but I would want to lose, you know, a few pounds. So I would do things like calorie counting and crazy really had a profound effect on me until I tried a low-carb diet, and at that time it was Atkins. And that's when I first realized that changing what I ate not only could affect my weight, but also had these other effects on my metabolic health, my energy levels, my skin. And then I just got really obsessed with trying all the different things. I started doing intermittent fasting about a decade ago. That was a game changer for me, again with weight loss, health, energy, vitality, everything like that.

I adopted a paleo diet that even further increased my experience, and then everything sort of crashed and burned. I graduated from USC in Southern California from film and theater school, and I was high on adrenaline, loving life, and I started not feeling well, and it's hard to remember exactly what happened when. I do know that the gut issue started when I got food poisoning at a like a Japanese restaurant, and what's interesting about that experience was I got food poisoning. I remember I had like colonoscopy. I was very young. They didn't really find anything, and that procedure kind of like cleared me out and fixed me momentarily, but I felt off after that. I know that's a very common experience for people. Like they have some sort of, you know, catalyzing event, and then they never quite feel the same. So after that I felt off. I got diagnosed with SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and from there I got prescribed Rifaximin, which is the antibiotic that specifically targets the small intestine to wipe out the overgrowth and the small intestine. So prior to that, I would eat food, and I didn't really think about it after that. Like I didn't think about if it was digesting. I didn't think about its transit time during my system. I just ate food, and then if I had a stomach ache or didn't feel well, I wasn't fixated on the actual food transit, what was happening in my gut, all of that. After Rifaximin, and I don't want to scare people away from it because I know that for a lot of people with SIBO, it actually really really helps them, and it's like a game changer. For me, it wasn't. I think I didn't have the, because I know there's like methane dominant versus hydrogen dominant bacteria and things like that, I don't think I was the candidate for it. So after that is when I started getting neurotic. Like I felt like food would just sit in me. I felt like I wasn't digesting it. I developed a, honestly, like a psychological complex surrounding it because I started getting severely worried about being constipated, about food not moving through me.

Melanie Avalon
I just felt toxic, and it was not a good time. And I've been seeing a therapist for years and years. And honestly, the reason I started seeing a therapist probably that long ago, you know, eight years ago or so was because I was like, I gotta tackle the psychological issue of this because I can't be scared of food. This is not this is not the way to live.

So that's also when I started really experimenting with diets like a low FODMAP diet, which I actually adopted and to this day works really well for me. That's when I started experimenting with digestive support and things like that. And it ended up being like a myriad mosaic of a lot of not good things that I had going on. So it wasn't just the gut. It was also I realized I had mercury poisoning, I realized I was anemic, I realized I had carbon monoxide poisoning from my apartment. So it was like a lot of stuff. But that ultimately led to my interest in the biohacking field, because I just wanted to feel better. So I was researching, I was trying all the things. And the more things I tried, the more things I found that worked. And I just started I started getting a desire to share all of this with everybody, which led to podcasting.

So that was a lot I can pause there. But that's like the journey that the dark part of the journey.

Dane Johnson
Yeah, and I know there's so much light in there, but you said some powerful things I want everyone listening to really take note because it's gonna help change your life and your perspective around inflammatory bowel disease Melanie they did a colonoscopy. They didn't find in diagnose you with something but yet Food fear still happened. You're still having chronic GI issues. You couldn't figure out still getting skin issues low energy You know going through periods of chronic diarrhea that would come or go or constipation But they didn't give you a name This is all the same experience that other people who've been identified as a chronic incurable disease are our feeling and are going through So the big point here is just because they gave you her name or didn't give you a name doesn't mean you're not going through Something real that's serious.

That's hard and And you won't still develop the same type of traumas, you know I think that's also what what happened here Melanie what you're talking about and I just want to hold space for anyone out there Who's you know has this has been identified as I have this incurable disease that even people who don't have that same? Stamp on their forehead by a doctor who just gave their subjective opinion Can still go through very similar experiences. We all Have our own health batters or struggles and we can learn from each other And maybe we're all not that different because I don't know about you Melanie, but for years it was Oh, I can't relate with someone like Melanie because they don't they a doctor didn't tell her she had IBD But in reality how much is the same and you said well, I had other issues. I had anemia I had heavy metal issues. How many people who've been stamped on the on the head with IBD have anemia have heavy metal issues Have skin issues have it may be histamine issues is all that wrapped up in the word IDD or the phrase so I just want to take this moment that we all can take our power back and realize it doesn't matter if Someone stamps you on the forehead with this diagnosis or not. It doesn't save us from what we're going through and we all have to take this Experience into our hands to become self-empowered become the CEO of our health, which I think Melanie what a lot of what you've done and We can relate just because someone doesn't diagnose with the same disease doesn't mean we can't learn from each other I mean Melanie you've put so much work into this without a diagnosis.

How did that feel for you? When you were you know, were you almost begging that they just called it something or were you kind of still happy that ah They're not giving me this name that I have to carry around like a badge of honor for the rest of my life

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I'm so glad you drew attention to that. And it's so interesting because, so I got the catch-all diagnosis of IBS, which is what they give you when they don't know what it is. And it's so interesting because it goes both ways. So on the one hand, people don't get the diagnosis they're looking for. And so then they don't know what to do. They feel like they can't take agency or they feel like they're being written off.

And then on the other hand, I think people can over identify with the diagnosis. So when they finally said that I had SIBO, I think I grabbed that and I ran with that and not in a healthy way. Like I started thinking, okay, I have SIBO. Like I just thought about it 24 seven. All I thought about was how I have this overgrowth of bacteria and I'm feeding the bad bacteria. And I went into this mission to kill the bacteria. I've taken all the antibacterials all the time, mostly natural ones. But it's like I flipped to the other side of fear where I felt like the label defined me. And I'm trying to remember when, I think I might've just come out of exhaustion, honestly, because that can do it. But I definitely had a moment where I was like, I'm not gonna try to like keep killing the bacteria for the rest of my life. I'm just gonna try to heal and focus on the good things I can put in my body rather than always being in this defensive fear-based killing mode of the bacteria. And that was actually for me personally, and it's a different journey for everybody. But for me personally, that was like, I turned a corner with that. And that was really helpful.

And I'm trying to remember, you know what, this is really crazy timing. It might have been reading Dr. Michael Ruscio's Healthy Gut, Healthy You. And the reason this is crazy timing is I'm interviewing him next week. And I was just like reflecting on how far I've come in that journey. But yeah, it's hard. So much of it is the mindset surrounding it and the identity and the labels. So you nailed it with that. It's so confusing.

Dane Johnson
This is something we all can learn from because maybe in today's episode, we can start finding more common ground than we ever thought was possible. We can take down dividers of labels and realize that we all have a human gut, prone to diarrhea or constipation or cramp or not feeling like food is sitting with us, right? Or skin issues or anxiety or poor digestion or malabsorption leading to anemia. Does the label really matter?

When we can all sit down and say, we all have a human gut. How do we get real results and how do we get imbalanced with that? You know, that's one of the answers right there. You said it, Melanie. You turned a corner when you let go of the fear and maybe a bit for you in that personal experience, it was becoming a neurotic nature of killing, killing, killing. Started finding a balance or homeostasis in your lifestyle that kept that SIBO more in line naturally. You didn't have to try. It just was because I, you know, maybe adding in probiotics or washing sugars or low FODMAP, intermittent fasting, all that can be really beneficial. So now it just became, you know, our lives, how we live, now we choose to wake up and go to bed and how we choose to eat needs to be something that makes us both happy and healthy. So that really says that needs to balance our health. You know, it needs to balance the gut. And that's what that turning, you found a balanced way where it was no longer work. Is that right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. I think for me, what really worked was a much more holistic picture and approach to my health rather than myopic view where I'm just targeting this one thing with these supplements or, you know, having a broader picture and focusing on my diet in general, what am I eating, what are the foods that make me feel good, and then focusing on broader things like sleep. I mean, I went down the rabbit hole with that and supporting my sleep and and all these other, you know, biohacking type things in my life that just make me feel and help me feel healthier. It's been so helpful.

And I've had to work on, I still eat, it's funny, like if you look at what I eat, it looks restrictive. I am very happy now with what I eat. I exist within the world of foods that I like, and it's what makes me feel good. And so there's been a journey there of there's so much like there's just so much judgment of ourselves and there's worry about what other people are going to think. And so I think just knowing what works for me has been one of the most helpful approaches.

Dane Johnson
Can we unpack that statement? I think this is something that will really serve us all.

Can we unpack that statement of, it looks like I'm on a restrictive diet that would make other people miserable. And when I tell them what I eat, it makes other people give you probably these wide eyes of how do you do this? But then you said something beautiful. You said, I'm in balance with this. I love it. It makes me happy and it makes me feel good. So again, no major diagnosis. SIBO is a state that needs to be fixed in the gut. IBS, as you said, IBS, IBD, a lot of it's, well, we don't know the root cause. IDK equals IBD or IBS, right? And you took it upon yourself to continue to go after a lifestyle that make you happy and healthy. So how did you go from I'm a normal person, you, whatever I want to, I'm now going to choose eating this way as a lifestyle. I'm not on a clock. I'm not doing a 30 day cleanse. I'm not, this is how I like to live and I'm happy here.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's it's really interesting because I'm reflecting on my journey through that and it's been such a long journey of making conscious food choices. So like I said, when I started doing low carb in college, that's when I started making macronutrient related food choices. So doing low carb. And then when I did paleo, that's when I started making whole foods based food choices. So only eating whole foods. And then I went I in college, I kind of did a carnivore stand again before it was before it was a thing. But that was more like an experiment. So it's been years and years of existing within food choice paradigms.

It's taken a while, though, to separate the label. So for the longest time, and I already said it on this show, I said I eat a low FODMAP diet at the same time. What I eat is like it covers food we would have eaten as natural hunter gatherers. So I don't even I almost don't know what the benefit is to calling it low FODMAP because that makes it sound almost more restrictive than it is. Because basically what I eat is I eat tons of meat, tons of seafood, like cucumbers, I eat a lot of fruit, broccoli, blueberries. So I'm eating a wider range of whole foods. And it's what works for me. I do like you mentioned it. I do deal with it. So if I go out to eat at a restaurant, for example, I have had to work on having confidence to just order what I want to order, which ends which usually ends up being like, can I have a steak completely plain, like not all the the oils and the and all of that stuff? And can I just have, you know, a simple like, you know, spinach on the side? And one of the hardest things I think with people who struggle with chronic disease and especially gotten health issues, there's just dealing with it yourself of feeling better. And then there's the existing in society. And how do you feel OK about that? Because the modern world is they eat a very different very differently often times.

Dane Johnson
You know, but I like, I love what you're saying about, it makes you happy. That is what I want everyone to walk away with.

I want you to build a nutrition plan that makes you happy and helping people and realize, just think back 150 years ago, there were no food options. It was this or starve. It was, we're gonna hunt this animal for meat and there was only a carbohydrate in the summer, right? Been that when, you know, photosynthesis were happening and the, you know, the plants are making glycogen and all the fruits and all this, all these vegetables, some of them. And so we've never had such options and that might be part of the anxiety is that we're supposed to have Korean food on Tuesday and Mexican food on Wednesday and a burger with fries on Thursday and then Friday's sushi. And it's like, this is, you need an iron gut, especially under the process of all this. That when you've been sick like me or Melanie and your gut's been injured, you no longer desire to eat foreign fake food that does not serve your vibrance and your ability to stand up and say, my gut feels good, my energy is good. I feel like I'm gonna sleep well tonight. I feel a good bowel movement coming on. That is worth 10 times more. And when you own that and say, I don't care what other people do, this is what makes me happy. And as long as my lab work looks good and I'm in a good place with my symptoms and goals, it doesn't matter. And you've done the hard work, Melanie, of getting to that place, of divorcing all of the social norms or social expectations of who you're supposed to be, how you're supposed to party and what you're supposed to order at a restaurant.

Melanie Avalon
I really I could not agree more. It's it's so interesting.

So you spoke about, you know, the the variety that we're supposed to today so we know we know evolutionarily that Variety and it's a double-edged sword or there's two sides to it because we do know that variety is Likely very beneficial for the gut microbiome. So there's that variety in plants and and whole food sources and at the same time variety in processed food Variety tells our brain to eat more because Work like from an evolutionary perspective if there was a new source of food It's a potential new source of food. So every time we get a new flavor a new Taste it's gonna make us want to eat more That's why people can actually they might be full and then they switch to a different food and they get hungry again like dessert You know like you're full but you can have dessert so I think variety gets confused with Like a healthy mindset approach to diet.

So people think if you are just eating a wide range of foods that that's healthier maybe psychologically When I just know for me and I'm glad that you're emphasizing the happiness part like I know that I'm getting the nutrients I need the protein. I need I think protein is so important and I'm eating real whole foods So if it's a slightly more limited list, but I'm happy with it Then let that be that's okay

Dane Johnson
Something also I think you've developed that we can put into words as a takeaway is nothing is stronger in knowing what's good for your body than a sharpened and seasoned intuition. When you spend time taking this and applying it, I think Melanie, you went on strict diets, you did carnivore, you did paleo, you done fasting, intermittent fasting, you done FODMAP. All of that has led to a sharp, sharp intuitive nature on what helps you feel healthy and thriving.

That's how you can get confidence and happiness because I think a lot of when you're saying I'm happy with my diet, you're saying I'm confident in the way I eat because I've already gone left, right, north, south, east, west. I've done so much. This is where I know I want to be. You are not easily influenced out of that because of the hard work, because of the dedication, because of the willingness to try. You didn't fail with those other diets. They were experiences that sharpened you intuition to get you to where you are now.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Also, just speaking on the intuition piece, because I just interviewed Dr. Stephen Gundry. His newest book is about the gut-brain connection. And he talks about the intuition piece because, especially with our gut and our gut microbiome, it's informed by what we're eating and it starts craving based on what we're eating. So, if we're eating a more limited diet, but healthy whole foods, we're going to be craving those foods and we're going to taste good. On the flip side, if we are having a more processed, standard American diet, we're going to actually intuitively crave those foods because the gut microbiome can send those neurotransmitters and make us actually crave those foods. So, the intuition piece to me is so fascinating.

It's fascinating how your cravings can change, your taste buds can change, and even your intuitive feeling can change based on what you're eating. But I can tell you, people don't believe me, but I am so happy with the food I eat. It tastes so good to me and I'm crazy. So, at restaurants, because I do intermittent fasting every day and I do one meal a day at night. So, just ordering one meal at a restaurant is usually not enough. So, I usually order two entrees and then I usually order for dessert, a savory dessert. So, I'll get like, I'll ask for like a shrimp cocktail for dessert or something.

Dane Johnson
Like, who is this young lady just hounding this food? I love that. Guys, this is a big takeaway. Make sure happiness is also confidence.

And if you don't have confidence in your nutrition, ask yourself, how much have you really dedicated yourself just to try, not just for it to work, we want it to work, but also to build the confidence on what will work for you and why, so you can build your nutrition plan, not just follow a diet. And what you're saying is so mega. And a big point of what you just said about Dr. Gundry, I crave a steak. I cannot get, I don't wake up. There's not a day that goes by that goes, man, I am so tired eating steak. You can give me a steak, a properly prepared grass bed, grass finished organic with the right type of salt, cooked the right way. That is gonna be, my neurotransmitters are firing all the time, just always firing because that's where I get that adequate protein. That's where I get those calories because I also tend to eat more restrictive foods. I'm careful with polysaccharides, the goons, lectins, Dr. Gundry's plan. I use a lot of his strategies around those grains and always complex carbs, polysaccharides is another name for that. And we learn these things. I think you're so right in what you're saying is when your body gets something that really serves it, it starts craving it. So I might start craving a little bit more sprouted stone grounded almond butter because I've been eating it more lately and my body goes, oh, that's a great source of certain fats or certain protein or calories that I wasn't getting before. Same thing with raspberries or, you know, arugula because if I have a lot of salads, my body might all of a sudden I might wake up one day and go, hmm, I feel like I'm on a salad. Like a low lectin, low oxalate salad that's been broken down with certain acids for better digestion, you know, that's cleaned. So I think there's a lot to what you're saying is when you really just try to eat really great food, your body will start craving it as it starts to switch to understand, oh, okay, this is my source of fuel now.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. I literally, one thing I love about for me practicing intermittent fasting is it's a feast every night for me and I literally look forward to it so much. I'm not like craving and hungry during the day.

I just, I love the fasted period and then I love the eating period and I love what I eat and it's great. So I'm going to keep on keeping on. I'm going to keep ordering those savory desserts at restaurants.

Dane Johnson
Can you share with everyone how you came to the realization that intermittent fasting was going to be a lifestyle for you? And I know it's just your experience, but what have been some of the pros and cons, how to really make sense of it for your life and integrating that when you were dealing with constipation or SIBO or any of those other GI issues?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so it's interesting because I started intermittent fasting also in college before any of the stuff went, you know, bad. And I was gonna just try it for a week was my game plan. I read a blog about it online. And I was like, I'll try this for a week. This sounds interesting. And I never stopped because it, it just was so helpful for me.

I loved that I no longer had what I really didn't like about even with low carbon keto and Atkins before fasting, that really helped my appetite and my cravings and things like that. But I still was always thinking about my next meal. And that was just such a big part of my mental capacity and energy during the day. And so with fasting, it switched me to where I didn't even have to think about that anymore, like the energetic load that was lifted from my shoulders from not having to make food decisions all day and not have to think about food all day, and then get to eat this, you know, feast type situation at night. It just really worked for me. I think a lot of people turn to intermittent fasting a lot for the health benefits, which there's so many and the weight loss and all that. But I think a lot of the unexpected benefits are things like the time you get back and the, the, the mental anxiety that goes away from not having to make these dietary choices. And there's just, there's so much there in that aspect. So that's really what kept me doing that.

Dane Johnson
I would love to also point out earlier you mentioned how when you ate food you felt off with it It didn't sick good you didn't feel good with it and that caused a an anxiety. Yes, and yes So when you're not eating you're getting autophagy, which is your body cleaning out the cells balancing the microbiome Right getting rid of zombie cells like senescent cells You are getting yourself pure bowel rest to optimize all those things You're saving the money you're saving the time But now you're building something for you I can see how that worked for you where it's like I don't have to have those feelings inside of me right now.

You could focus on your podcast. I mean You're reading these books. You're interviewing these huge guests. You're you're traveling the world doing all these things You've got a lot to do and so you get all the health benefits of I was told I have SIBO What if all this disease manifests into something worse? Imminent fasting helps to can control that because scientifically we see that people with imminent fast have a ton of benefits longevity Metabolics liver health gut health all of those things then you get rid of the anxiety and worried out of fear on the food you're eating and There's ways to do it where you actually feel more energetic How many of us eat and then we feel sluggish after eating when we thinking oh, I need to eat because I'm low on energy

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And that's why for me, especially with the, um, I eat in the evening and I sleep so much better on a full stomach. I was never the type I, if I could, I always say if I could change one thing about myself, it would be, I would change my circadian rhythm. I am not the, like the morning person, the eat breakfast. I'm just not that person.

I'm the, the late night, the late night owl that likes to eat late and all of those things and needs to sleep on a full stomach. So it, if I were to eat during the day now, and I've been doing this for so long, I, I would get so tired, um, and lethargic and not, not productive. So I found that the window of eating that just really, really suits my body works really well for me.

Dane Johnson
So I think there's a lot there that you found something that allows you to get back to work, be in balance is also still healthy or getting enough nutrients and protein and all this. And you're also helping to optimize your gut. I mean, the science is there around fasting. Should we be doing that with IBD? I think if you're malnourished and severely underweight, speak with your doctor before doing that.

I think there are some other ways to consider that, especially with me, I was 120 pounds from 100. There's no way intermittent. I couldn't intermittent fast. I had to have some calories so that I didn't wither away and have to go back on some kind of life support. So, obviously there are pros and cons. I think that's one big point that we have to make here is, when I interviewed you or you interview a lot of people, we always have this idea that this worked for me, it might not work for you. And what we're really saying is, when you look at these strategies for healing, you have to see healing like a chest match. The rule is, you make your move on the chest board based on how your opponent moves. And you never know your next move until you see your opponent's move. So it's a real time pivot. So when you say it works for you, it might not work for everyone else. That's because people are not understanding how to play the chess game of health. What are the pros and cons of intermittent fasting? And why would you consider doing it? Why would you not consider doing it? And you don't have to do it exactly like Melanie. But if you're dealing with some of these issues and you have a ton of food fear, you can get the same calories in a four or five hour eating window as you did in a 12 hour eating window. And that could have tons of benefits like it's had for Melanie here. What have been some of the big benefits you've noticed and why you've stuck with it? Like the top benefits of intermittent fasting for you that you say, this is me. This is why it's helped me and how it might be able to help other peoples who can relate with you.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And just to emphasize the individuality aspect, because you were asking the beginning, you know, what are my biggest takeaways in general from podcasting and being in this biohacking sphere and everything. And having interviewed so many people, there's just not one diet for everybody is my takeaway. Like if there was, I really think we would have found it. If there was one perfect eating window, one perfect diet, I think we would have found it. And I think it would work for everybody, but that's just not the case and not the experience.

So even so when it comes to fasting, again, I think finding the eating window that works for you is so, so important. And there's a lot of ways that it can be done. You can look at the, you can do it like a meal based thing. So you're only eating dinner, you're only eating lunch or only eating breakfast, or you're eating only breakfast and lunch, like, or you can do it by the clock, like I'm only eating between these hours, or you could do it based on I just want to fast, you know, a certain minimum amount of hours each day and do it more that way. There's a lot of different approaches. And you can also, you know, mix it up. So the top benefits I've experienced, there's so many. I think so one of them is what I was talking about earlier about not having to, not having to restrict myself when I actually am eating. So I have my eating window, that's my eating window, I get to nourish my body, viscerally experience the pleasure of food, just I get all the the benefits of eating without being haunted by this idea that I have to count calories or that I have to stop eating soon or that just that that's all gone. So I love I love that experience. I love the time that I get back. It's you don't realize how much time you spend when you're eating multiple meals and snacks throughout the day, but it's it adds up. So just having an uninterrupted block of time every day has been so so incredible for for everything in my life.

And the sleep, like I mentioned, it really, really helps with my sleep. And it really, really helps just in general with me maintaining my my health and my body constitution, all the things and the gut rest, like you're saying, because I think it's very, there is a lot of studies on fasting and healing the gut. And it can be very beneficial for we know that our our gut cells, they turn over very fast, which is good, because it means they can heal pretty fast. And at the same time, there's a lot of like the eating process is is inflammatory. Like there's way around that not like to a horrible extent, but it is, you know, using using the gut things happen down there. So having that that rest mode every day, especially if you're fasting, I think can be very, very healing.

And although I do want to draw attention, I agree with you that you know, people need to make sure they can get enough calories and nutrition, especially if that's what they're struggling with with IBD and such. But there's Yeah, there's a lot of benefits.

Dane Johnson
You know, for me, whenever I do imminent fasting, I've done three day water fasts and I've practiced a lot of minute fasting myself is if I can drink enough water and get enough electrolytes or earlier in the day, I have great energy. I have great energy and I'm one of those people that also has felt like if I eat a huge breakfast in the morning, which I used to want to do because I wanted to build muscle, I'm in the gym. So I'd have, you know, six or seven eggs and aching and a protein shake and all this stuff, but I felt so lethargic. My gut felt so heavy. And then the chance of me having to run to the bathroom more was just way greater. So there's a lot of benefit that when your body is ready, you can use intermittent fasting to save time, save money and potentially feel like you have more energy.

You know, what happens to the brain when you're not eating? Well, it turns on, it starts lighting up, looking for carbohydrates. That's what they say after 24 hour fasts, you're gonna start feeling like, whoa, I'm up, I can't sleep, you know? And so if you can get time, energy and money out of it, it's something you could consider. I think that there has to be a healing response for a lot of us or just talk to your doctor and do what's best for you. I think that's the best way of saying it, but a lot of real benefits. I thought I'd be a person who could never do intermittent fasting, but I found it like you, very, very valuable. And like you, I like to eat more at night. I like to go to bed. My heaviest meal is about 5 p.m. for me, up to 6 p.m., that's where I feel best. And when I don't eat a lot during the day, like it's 220 right now, and I've probably had about 500 calories, but I'm switched on, ready to go. And so it changes day to day, it changes based on where you travel. So wherever you are in the world, guys, realize that you can be flexible, you can move this. And as you get empowered, as you refine that intuition, you can change your plan a little bit based on what's happening in your life, if that suits you and if that works for you.

You know, question, I know we're running out of time here, Melanie, but last question for you. After all these interviews, over all this experience of biohacking and doing all these different diets and interviewing some of the best in the world around this, what have been some of the top highlights where you're seeing these world-renowned functional practitioners or doctors agree on? Like what are some of the highlights that we all should be focused on, right? What is the, are there any symbiotic nature solutions that we all say, yes, this is most important that we can do despite the nuances and differences we might feel about how to heal.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love this question so much. And it's interesting. So in the diet world for that, it's very limited. Like, if you if it's like, everybody agrees, eat war, you know, do it. Yeah, no, like, yeah, drink water, eat, I think probably for the food for the diet world, it would be drink, drink water and eat whole foods. I really think that's the only thing everybody would agree on.

Even like the protein front, you know, people will say, high protein diet is the best. And then some people will say high, low protein diet is best for longevity. So it's it's confusing. But I think I think probably one of the biggest things that people agree on. And I also think it's the most one of the most important things for people's health, including their gut health. And I mentioned earlier, but supporting our sleep, I think is so so important. And we are so out of whack and out of line today with our natural circadian rhythms. We live these, you know, sedentary, over processed lives stuck in, you know, collections of artificial light and blue light, which messes up our melatonin, melatonin production, which messes with our sleep. And it's just not it's not ideal. And we're very stressed. So I think addressing sleep can be so helpful. And there's so much agency that you can take there. And I have my whole, my whole protocol that I've created and curated over years of doing all this research. So, you know, I, well, it starts in the morning, I make sure I get exposure to bright light in the morning, and throughout the day, staying active. And then in the evening, I have my whole protocol. So I, I use blue light blocking glasses, those help those block blue light, which, which actually shuts off your melatonin production, which can impede sleep. I light my apartment with red light at night, it looks like the red light district, which is kind of funny. For my sleeping environment, I keep the temperature very cold. I actually do like the low 60s, which is pretty pretty cold. And then I use a like a cooling mattress to help with my body temperature, because we know that helps support sleep. I use blackout curtains, eye mask, and I, I wind down, I don't use social media at night. So I think really, really addressing your sleeping habits can be can be a game changer for people and their health. And I think, I think, actually, probably all the experts would agree on that.

Dane Johnson
I think everyone can agree optimizing your sleep is key to autoimmune disease, gut health, liver health, anxiety, cellular repair, growth. There is, we all can win with that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I definitely. And I think they also would agree on exposing ourselves to beneficial hermetic stressors.

So again, we're so sedentary today, we sit at our computers, we're inside, we're not moving, we exist in a very stable air conditioned temperature. So anything you can do that would mimic how we evolved when we were exposed to the environmental stressors actually has very beneficial effects on our health. So things like cryotherapy, where you're, you know, temporarily exposing yourself to very cold temperatures, be that through an ice bath or a cryotherapy air machine or a nitrogen machine, or even just doing a cold shower. So that's going to help with inflammation and boost mood and help regulate cortisol, or doing on the flip side, so like heat exposure. So having a sauna session, it's great for activating heat shock proteins, which have a longevity effect, and support muscle, it's great for detoxification. So I do that every day, I do sauna every day, I do cryotherapy every day. I think the things like that can be can make radical changes in people's health and wellness.

Dane Johnson
I love that, and I echo that. And guys, what she said, an environmental hermatic therapy. So, hermosis is a stress on your body that's just at the right balance that creates a healing response. Kind of like breaking down a muscle to build it to be stronger. Environmental heat, cold therapy, even something like pressure, atmospheric pressure, like oxygen chamber. That's my favorite.

I do sauna and I do H-bot. I've got it in my house. Those are like two of my favorite. And obviously exercise, walking up a hill is a type of stress on the body that when done properly, can have a healing response. I think this is really an important biohack everyone can take from today, is stop arguing about what we differ on and start focusing on being consistent on what we all agree on.

Let's optimize our sleep. Let's use certain states of environmental hermatic therapies where we feel ready to do that. I think another one, if I had to put one in there is I think almost everyone can agree that not snacking as often would be valuable, whether you're high carb, low protein, or vice versa, or whatever, your FODMAP or this, that. Giving bowel rest has its value. And then you have levels of that intermittent fasting or fasting, which you've shown and run a podcast on. And so these are things that can, I think we all could agree that sunlight, real sunlight to a certain level of exposure is going to be valuable, especially that morning sun with those natural red lights, that'd be good. You wanna use red light therapy, just wake up and go look at the sun. You got plenty of it right there. And oxygen, good water, clean water, not stored in a microplastic bottle, they see things all. Big takeaway today is what can you start doing that everyone has a consensus is gonna be great for us.

And that's really how I started. Not only when I looked at this, I was so confused. Like you, when I was on the consumer side, I was just reading everything. Everything was so conflicting. And what I said is, okay, what are the common pieces of advice I keep seeing over and over again from these practitioners I feel are full of integrity, full of trust, and have really helped people get results? What do they agree on? Let me start there. And- I love it. That's where you might, that's where you're probably gonna see the biggest ROI. And I know some of this stuff might not feel life-changing. Like, oh, it's not the supplement that's gonna change my life, but the consistency of good sleep, nervous system regulation, proper type of stress on your life or your body that's done therapeutically, you do these over and over again, you are going to see results. Consistency is worth more than perfection. Any last words, Melanie? Thank you so much for this awesome, awesome time and sharing your story.

Melanie Avalon
No, thank you, Dane. I, like I said, I just love, I love what you're doing so much. You're helping so many people. I feel so good right now.

I guess the way I always sign off my little, my little, what is it? Tagline? I don't know. I always say it at the end and it's breathe, be kind, you got this. So just taking a moment to breathe. You know, we didn't talk about breath work, but you know, everything, everything is okay and taking a moment to understand that. And then I just think kindness is so important and so underrated. Because you got this.

You do. You got this.

Dane Johnson
Amen. You got this, guys.

I'm going to put a link to Melanie's podcast, an amazing podcast. It's so good. You need to check it out. That's below. And I'll put a link to her Instagram and all the things below. Please connect with her, reach out so you can help change your life.

Thank you so much, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you, Dane. This was fabulous. Thank you.

Dane Johnson
God bless, guys.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!
 

Jun 16

Episode 426 – Metabolism Slowing Down With Age Myths, Tattoos’ Effects On Health And Wellness, Fasting Longer Than 24 Hours, Supporting Muscle With Old Age, Laser Hair Removal, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 426 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

SHOW NOTES


SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS


LMNT

LMNT is launching a new limited-time flavor-Lemonade Salt-perfect for summer hydration. This zero-sugar electrolyte drink supports energy and wellness during hot-weather activities like hiking and workouts, without the additives found in typical sports drinks. It’s especially suited for those on keto, paleo, or whole food diets. Get your free Sample Pack with any LMNT purchase at drinklmnt.com/melanieavalon.

PELUVA BAREFOOT SHOES

Peluva's barefoot shoes are a zero drop minimalist shoe with a distinctive 5 toe design, to create the most authentic barefoot style experience. Get 15% off with code ifpodcast at peluva.com.

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: Botín

Destiny

STUDIES:

Tattoos as a risk factor for malignant lymphoma: a population-based case-control study

Daily energy expenditure through the human life course

Characterisation of tattoo inks used in Australia

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)



Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 426 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 426 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Melanie. Hey, everyone tuning in. Thanks for being here. I am doing awesome. I'm having a great day.

I'm kind of back in, have my actors hat back on. So I'm getting ready to go back to Melbourne to dive into all things Destiny, which is the play I'm doing soon. So kind of in that zone right now and it's feeling really good. I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
That is so exciting. When do you leave? And how long will you be there?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so I'm going to be there for a day next week, and then a few days in early May, and then we have proper rehearsals in July. So it's Melbourne Theatre Company, everyone. They're so prestigious, they put a lot of time and care into getting the work right, and so that we can service the work the best we can, and they take care of us. So it just feels, we feel really lucky and privileged, so I'm so excited to spend so much time with this character and the story and with the other actors.

I'm just in my happy place, you know, it's just, I'm so grateful and so happy.

Melanie Avalon
I am so happy for you, I am so proud of you. Have you seen the theater, the venue that it's at?

Barry Conrad
I have seen it. I haven't seen the set yet or anything because it's not up yet. But it's going to be great. Melanie, you got to come. You got to jump on that plane.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I know, I wanna come so bad.

Barry Conrad
you have to see me on Broadway when that happens. So that's happening.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Yes, yes. And listeners, so if any listeners in the summer, our summer, are in Australia, do you have the exact dates of the of the show?

Barry Conrad
So July we start rehearsal so in August the first show to start so get there. So that will be Fall for you guys. I want to say

Melanie Avalon
It's like the end of summer, I think, as the official, I think it starts in September.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be pretty cool.

Melanie Avalon
September 22nd is when our fall starts.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be really, it's going to be not too cold, but it's going to be on the cooler side when you come to, when you come to Melbourne or if you live in Melbourne. Let's come check it out.

Melanie Avalon
It'll be your spring, right? Kind of getting towards spring, yeah.

Barry and I struggle with figuring out this whole season thing. Actually, it doesn't mean... But I don't understand... Okay. I feel like I know my seasons pretty well, but I feel like... Do you know your seasons?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Thanks for watching!

Barry Conrad
I just think of that Carole King song, Winter, Spring, Summer, or Fall, all you've got to do is call. So it's like Winter, Spring, Summer.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. I will listen to that when I go to Carol King. Beautiful, the Carol King musical. When are you going to that? And I'm I think in a month or so.

Barry Conrad
You're actually going to love it, Mel. I actually did it here in Australia. It's such a special show.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, you were in it, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you're gonna love it

Melanie Avalon
Oh my God, I have no idea. I don't even know. I don't think I really know her songs. I mean, I'm sure I do want to hear them because she wrote a lot of songs, right?

Barry Conrad
She wrote a lot of songs i feel like you're gonna be there and you like i don't know anything in the soon as you hear it is like i know this one and this one and it's like a jukebox you love it.

Melanie Avalon
That's what I, yeah. I love, and I've got, yeah, I love those. I just recently saw the Neil Diamond musical.

Barry Conrad
That was... How was that?

Melanie Avalon
It was amazing. It was so great. It's hard to get happier than being with a group of people singing Sweet Caroline.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly.

Melanie Avalon
Such a vibe, you know, such a happy vibe. Congratulations, like this is so exciting. I will be there in spirit. Maybe I'll surprise you, maybe, you know.

Barry Conrad
You never know. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Mel really appreciate the support and encouragement always that you show. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's really exciting too because it's a straight play, like it's no singing, it's like only acting.

Not that that's... What am I saying here? You know, it's like all acting chops that got you the role.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I feel especially proud of this one and also because it's obviously based in South Africa, so very close to home, the content.

Melanie Avalon
Will there be like a trailer online or something? Like, will there be something I can watch?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, they'll just, Melbourne Theatre Company, they capture a lot of content, so they'll definitely be something that you can watch at some point. Can I just watch the...

Melanie Avalon
thing?

Barry Conrad
I don't think, I think there's probably going to be like what, I don't know, do you call it an archival in America when you record shows, theater shows, or you don't?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I guess so. I know what you're talking about.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I don't know if that's gonna be a public thing either way enough about me back to you now. How are you? What's happening with you? How are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
I am good. A fun highlight from today was I received about 17-ish different coffee bags to try to find a coffee bag for my Glow Coffee. It was so many coffee bags. I didn't know they were going to send that many.

So I was like, huh, you know, which one feels the best? What design? There's a lot that goes into product development. It was fun, though. There's one that I do like from the 17 of them. So we shall see.

Barry Conrad
That's super exciting though it did hey Christian so did you know before you mentioned something about having a bit about you in the bag like what did you end up going with okay or can you not say.

Melanie Avalon
we kind of went on a journey with that. I think we're back to including, like we were on the fence about whether or not I should be in any of the branding and content and everything, like should it be completely separate?

But I think we're gonna really focus on launching to my audience and making that a part of it. And then if we need to expand in the future and kind of take some of that out, we can do that. But I think we are gonna have it at launch. I do wanna put on the coffee bag, like my facial splash that you can do with coffee and stuff like that. I think we might put it like on the side to make it a little hidden treasure.

Barry Conrad
On the side, whenever you say on the side melon, it makes me think of when you order. You know, we would do a proverbial break-in. And I'll have that on the side, please. Everything on the side.

Melanie Avalon
It was funny, it's funny how we both thought of something. I thought of having people on the side.

Barry Conrad
That you went straight there? Okay.

Melanie Avalon
There's some like line from some musical or movie that's in my head. I don't know what it, what it is, but it's about that. So that's what popped up.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
No, on the side of the bag.

Barry Conrad
Okay, are you sure about that?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, going to be hidden. Man, on the side can mean so many different things.

Barry Conrad
It actually can on the side. I'll get my food on the side. I've got like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on the side, AKA people. I've got a...

Melanie Avalon
and stuff on the side.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, side hustle, you know. I got my trinkets and stuff on the side of my bed. I've got, you know, my umbrella next to my seat on the side in this amphitheatre in the heat. Right, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no. Wait, this is making me think of one thing to talk about, and then we can jump into actual fasting related things.

Are you familiar with the longest sentence that is only one word? It's the same word over and over and over, but it's actually a sentence. Tell me what it is. It starts with buffalo. Have you heard this? No. Okay, so it's ready. It's buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. Huh? And I put the pauses in the right place. Buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. What's happening in that sentence? Stuff is happening in that sentence.

Barry Conrad
Okay, how did you get that from on the side? How did you job the...

Melanie Avalon
I was thinking about language and how interesting it is and how things can have different meanings. So like this sentence with the word buffalo means something. It's actually a sentence.

Barry Conrad
For what does it mean?

Melanie Avalon
I'll try to say it one more time, but I don't think it's going to... Okay, so buffalo buffalo, I'm going to add in some words to help you. Some words that don't have to be in there, but they're understood.

Buffalo buffalo, comma, vet, buffalo buffalo buffalo, comma, buffalo, buffalo buffalo.

Barry Conrad
No, I don't know. I have no idea. And I feel like this is obviously a test. Now I feel like.

Melanie Avalon
It's not a test. It took me it took me forever to grasp it.

Okay, so it's Buffalo, Buffalo. It's like Buffalo from Buffalo, New York. Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo. So Buffalo from New York, that Buffalo from New York bully, sorry, Buffalo means bully. Buffalo, they bully Buffalo, Buffalo. So they bully other buffaloes from Buffalo.

Barry Conrad
How am I supposed to get that? How is anyone supposed to guess that? That's so hard.

Melanie Avalon
I think, depending on if you're like an oral or are you an audio learner or a visual? Both. Like for me, so I'd have to like see it written down and I'd have to stare at it for a long time and you would see it with capitalization. So that would help because only Buffalo, New York would be capitalized. And I would have to like really look at it and be like, hmm, what's being said here?

The story of it is that Buffalo from Buffalo, New York, that Buffalo from New York bully, they bully the Buffalo from New York. It's okay. I'm done. That's my that's my that's my sentence today.

Barry Conrad
That is so not what I was. Wasn't a mob bingo guy for today's show, Melanie, that you got to say? Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo.

Melanie Avalon
Well, now you can you can pull it out of your card and impress people like all the time, you know at a cocktail party.

Barry Conrad
And also, yeah, so summer, autumn, winter, spring, that's our Australian seasons. I had to just put that out there so people don't think I'm stupid because Melanie was like, I feel like I know my seasons pretty well, but do you?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, summer, fall, winter, spring. We had a conversation once where you like were confused about the seasons.

Barry Conrad
You blowing up my spot again, I just tried to...

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, I supposed to my bad. Oh, you're right. No, no. You're he completely knows the seasons. Ignore me. That's just that's just

Barry Conrad
just because of the...anyway, let's just talk about the buffalo, blah blah blah.

Melanie Avalon
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to-

Barry Conrad
It's just the tone that you had. You're like, I feel like I know my seasons, but do you know?

Melanie Avalon
She's like, I don't, it's just a question. Oh man, I don't know a lot of things. You know the seasons though. We've established that. We've established that.

Barry Conrad
Which is which is who you think so, right? I'm glad.

Melanie Avalon
So we jump into some fasting stuff

Barry Conrad
Sounds good. Buffalo, buffalo.

Melanie Avalon
buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo okay okay it's gonna haunt you though you're gonna be like laying in bed tonight and you're just gonna be thinking about buffalo buffalo buffalo

Barry Conrad
I think I actually might.

Melanie Avalon
I think you will be. I'm calling it now.

I'm calling it now. Okay. I'm so excited about this study. Yeah. What do you have for us? It is called daily energy expenditure through the human life course. You know, there's this whole idea that our metabolism slows down when we age. Yeah. This study looked at 6,421 subjects. 64% of them were female from 29 countries, aged eight through 95 to see how do people's metabolisms actually change with age.

Barry Conrad
That's so many subjects as well that i can't wait to hear about it.

Melanie Avalon
It was broken down, they found four phases where people's metabolism changes. So the first phase, and maybe you can guess, I'll tell you the age that it is. So the first phase of metabolism for humans is up until you're one years old. What do you think happens to our metabolism during that time? And this is not information that you should know. So if you don't get it right, that's fine.

Barry Conrad
I think after the seasonal talk in the buffalo, I'm like, oh my god.

Melanie Avalon
This is not common knowledge.

Barry Conrad
I think our metabolism is still, I guess, just, you know, being established. Like, you know, what's happening is so early on.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So think about how much a child grows from when they come out of the womb until they're one. They grow a lot. It's a rapid time of growth.

So their metabolism actually rapidly grows for the first year. And then the second phase is from age one to 20. There's a similar rate of growth during that time. So what I meant is your metabolism keeps increasing from age one to 20. So from zero to one, it's like, bam, like super fast metabolism increase. Then from one to 20, it continues to increase. And then the third phase is from 20 to 60. And this is where a lot of people think, you know, that our metabolism declines. What do you think happens to our metabolism from age 20 to age 60?

Barry Conrad
I think it stabilizes.

Melanie Avalon
look at you, you got it right. Yes, yes. So it's pretty stable.

People's metabolism does not really go down naturally because of age, up until age 60. Even during pregnancy, there's not much of a change. And sex has no effect either. So for men and women, it's pretty similar. And then the fourth phase is people who are over 60. What do you think happens to their metabolism then?

Barry Conrad
I think maybe it slows down.

Melanie Avalon
So it does, but what's really fascinating is only by 0.7, around 0.7, give or minus 0.1%. So between 0.6 to 0.7%, it goes down every year.

Barry Conrad
Which is not much.

Melanie Avalon
Not much yeah so this whole this whole idea that you get old in your metabolism plummets. Nope it goes up until twenty it's pretty stable from twenty to sixty and then it only goes down about point.

Less than one percent per year.

Barry Conrad
Wow. It just debunks everything that we're, again, fed by the masses. Metabolism slows down as soon as you're even an adult, like you're over 25 and you should be worried. It's just crazy.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And what's really interesting about it is because I think people do experience weight gain oftentimes when they, you know, like they'll be in their 40s or 50s and they'll say, Oh, it's just my metabolism slowing.

But really, if you're gaining weight, it's probably not your metabolism slowing. It's probably all the other lifestyle factors affecting your weight. So maybe you're eating more, exercising less, have less muscle mass, but you're, you're like inherent metabolic rate is probably not changing.

Barry Conrad
This is so good, Melanie, to study and just I want everyone to know this because it's just at least gives people a reason not to accept defeat or feel like, you know, their lives are over just because they're adults, you know, you know, should give you peace of mind as well, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
I think so. I really, I really like it.

And then I also really like that it's only around less than 1% decrease after 60. So I feel like that you can easily combat with, I mean, I don't want to say easily, but losing 1% of your metabolism, less than 1% of your metabolism, like you can really work against that by supporting muscle mass, exercise, you know, fasting, the food choices that you make. So there's a lot of agency here for people, for sure.

Barry Conrad
I agree.

I think exactly what you said, Melanie, about it's not your metabolism or your age necessarily, it's what you're doing, what you're choosing to do with your life, your lifestyle choices. Maybe you're in a sedentary job, maybe you're eating more, maybe you're in a relationship, and how some people are like, we just like to eat together, or I don't have to impress anyone anymore, so you actually stop doing the things you used to do to take care of yourself. It's all these different factors that we actually choose, you know, to do.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And I think, I think especially when you're getting older that preserving muscle mass is so, so important. I think being conscious of that throughout your life is really important to have those muscle stores so that if muscle does start declining with age, you've built up this muscle and then really working to maintain that with resistant exercise, you know, moderate to high protein diet. Very important.

So yes, metabolism myths.

Barry Conrad
I'm actually my mind's blowing pun intended like I'm really impressed with the study and like, for example, what you're talking about with metabolism. I thought about my mom who is I want to say 67 and she's like, oh, you know, I'm gaining weight because of my age and whatnot. But now she's actually right into walking Melanie. She's discovered walking and and she's up to a protein because of after my, you know, incessant recommendation and she feels amazing.

She's lost weight. And she does intermittent fasting. So it's not the age. So yeah, there you go. You're exactly right.

Melanie Avalon
And so like in that example, so you said she's 67, right? If we did the average, which is 0.7, so if it went down by 0.7 for seven years, that means her metabolism, because of her age, probably declined 4.9%, so less than 5%.

But there probably is a decline, but it's so important to do things like your, that you've guided her to with the walking and the protein and all the things. Yay for her.

Barry Conrad
So amazing, yeah. What a great find, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon
Shout out to Barry's mom.

Barry Conrad
To Debbie, say shout out to Debbie.

Melanie Avalon
Debbie, shout out to Debbie. Does she listen to your shows ever?

Barry Conrad
She actually does and so she's going to love this. She does? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Aww. Hi Debbie. I don't think my family listens. Really? No. Then again, I've been doing this for like seven years, but I don't... Yeah. Oh no, they should listen. I wouldn't listen if I was them.

Barry Conrad
It's like, we're good, we know that you do it, we don't need to listen to it. Yeah. Amazing study.

Melanie Avalon
You know, it's interesting. I actually read it in two different books that I was reading around the same time. It was in, I think it was in Stephen Gundry's new book, I think. I might be misquoting.

But then I'm reading right now, and this will have happened by the time this airs, but I'm interviewing Ben Azati for his new book. It was in there. So shout out to him. He's amazing. Okay, shall we jump into some questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Let's jump on in.

Melanie Avalon
First question comes from Susan. How often do you do longer fasts over 24 hours? Question mark.

Barry Conrad
Hmm.

Hey Susan, how's it going?

Hope you're having a good day.

Great question.

And actually this is a question that I do get asked by people because I generally do 20 hours a day and they're asked if I do longer.

So fasting more than 24 hours.

I mean, it's one of those things that does sound a bit intense at first, but once you're practicing IF for a while, it does start to feel like it's more within reach or a natural progression.

That said, I reckon how often you do them, or even if you do them at all, it depends on you.

You don't have to.

For me personally, the max I've ever done is like 36 hours, but only just to experience it just to see what it felt like.

So I'm not someone who does extended fast regularly cause I like to eat every day.

I like my daily eating window.

I love my food, but what did that 36 hour fast do?

I did feel a bit of a reset, not just physically, but mentally.

I felt clear and lighter and more present.

That said, I also kind of prepared for a new, what was coming up.

So I hydrated myself.

I kept that day pretty relaxed.

I didn't do too much.

I definitely didn't go to the gym that day.

I just wanted to experiment on that fast.

I think it's key to be intentional about it.

If you want to do that, we do know that doing longer fast comes with serious benefits for sure.

Stimulating autophagy, improving insulin sensitivity, that mental clarity, that reducing inflammation, but it's not, Susan, that's not something that you have to do to see results with fasting.

So if your current fasting routine is working and if you're sleeping well, you're training well, you're feeling good, then you don't really need to, but if you're curious about it and your body's in a good place, then experimenting slowly.

I reckon could be worth trying.

I just don't think force it because you don't want to approach a fast with a punishment mindset or something like that, or like, I've eaten so much today, so let me not eat for two days or something like that.

You know?

So I think it's more about tuning into your body, giving your body a break.

And honestly, Susan, the way you break a fast is just as important as the actual fast as well.

So if you do do the fasting longer, make sure that you are aware of what works for your digestion well and like your gut.

So for me, for example, I'll have, what did I have?

Like a couple soft boiled eggs with some maybe lean protein, like chickens, some spinach, some mushrooms.

I'm not going to smash a whole bunch of food just to ease back in.

But yeah, it was a powerful experience, but it comes down to why you're doing it and if it works for your body.

Melanie, what about you?

Have you done a longer fast or you just like to have your daily eating window?

What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I'm so similar to you in that I I just really like eating every day and I I really look forward to my meal every night and I really struggle to sleep on an empty stomach. I just it's Yeah, some people I know sleep so well on empty stomachs. I don't.

So the hardest thing for me, I think I actually if the days were longer, I've thought this so many times. So if I could just have a 36 hour day, I think I could you honestly, I think most days I could easily do that. Like I don't think it would be hard. At all, like, no, it definitely wouldn't know. The problem is sleeping on empty stomach. So because the days aren't 36 hours, it means that in order to do a 36 hour fast, I have to sleep through the night on an empty stomach and then wake up the next day and then I don't want to eat during the day. So it kind of mandates that it's at least like a 48 hour fast almost. But the hardest part of that would be the sleeping part.

So if the days were longer, I would do longer ones more often. Because they're not I don't really it happened. Okay, sometimes the way it could happen accidentally would be if I ate at a, you know, eight by one meal a day, and then the next night if I went out to some event and got, you know, stayed out much later than normal, then that might push back everything. So the only way I really I accidentally will do some sometimes fast that are over 24 hours. But it's because I just got back super, super late from something.

Barry Conrad
I've done like, like you said, like accidentally, like if maybe it's like a long shoot or I'm traveling or something, but it's definitely not something that I try to do. I mean, I just wanted to try that 36 hour just to kind of just to see what it felt like.

But I love my food too much. Just do eating every day.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, two thoughts there. So traveling, like that's, that's a time that I did, like when I went to London, I did a really long fast because I just didn't eat before traveling and then didn't eat on the plane, didn't eat that day, didn't eat until that evening. I definitely had a conscious because I went through a period of time where I was like, I really want to do like a 48 hour fast or a three day fast, like I really want to do this. And I still think I do think I would like to at some point, I'd have a moment of acknowledging and not having guilt around.

I like eating every day and like it's working for me, doing my daily intermittent fasting. So I don't want to feel self pressured that I have to do a longer fast or feel guilty for not doing a longer fast. But I do think longer fast can be great for people. But like you said, and I'm glad you said all this, like you want to be really conscious with it. You want to make sure you're not doing it out of, out of guilt or out of, you know, trying to make up for something or because you feel like you have to. If you do a longer fast, I want people to do it. I mean, I think it doesn't really matter what I want, but I think it's helpful for people if they are doing it because they're excited about doing it. And it's like, you know, it's something they're excited about to help their body rather than fear or guilt or anything like that.

It's awesome. So great question, Susan. Shall we go to Adri?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
All right. Actually, would you like to read this one?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sure. So Adrian asks, have you ever researched the effects of tattoos on health or wellness? And if so, I'd love to hear what you found. Melanie, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, Barry, have we talked about tattoos? You and I?

Barry Conrad
I don't actually, I actually don't think we have, no, I don't think we have, for real. Do you have tattoos? Take a guess.

Melanie Avalon
I actually, I actually don't know, yes?

Barry Conrad
No.

Melanie Avalon
No?

Barry Conrad
And I've said this forever, I know what I would get if I got a tattoo, but I just keep saying that every year and it doesn't happen. So I don't know if I will. Do you have any tat?

Melanie Avalon
Take a guess. Yes. I do.

Barry Conrad
I knew it. Yes. I knew it. I knew that you did. I just had a feeling. Where is it? What is it?

Melanie Avalon
Actually, a Bible verse reference.

Barry Conrad
What is it? Which one?

Melanie Avalon
Matthew 28 20 I got it when I was 17. I think that's when you can get a tattoo and it was really Kind of spontaneous like my friend got one and she was like you should get I don't know It was my friend who I never thought would get a tattoo got one Shout out.

Well, I don't know if I should nobody will know shout out to Emily and then I was like I'm gonna do it too. So then I went got one and I don't my my parents didn't didn't know until I mean Relatively recently, I think

Barry Conrad
Did you what were you scared of telling them would they be mad do you think?

Melanie Avalon
mad, but I think they... No, they wouldn't have been mad, but I think, I don't know. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
What does the verse say? What is it?

Melanie Avalon
It says, and surely I am with you always to the very end of the age. I always thought it was really poetic.

Barry Conrad
It sounds pretty poetic, but it does.

Melanie Avalon
And then I remember thinking, well, because it was about, you know, my religion. So I was thinking, I was thinking like, you know, if I'm getting a tattoo, I might as well get something about my religion because then what can my parents say?

Barry Conrad
That's a good point.

Melanie Avalon
So, yeah, and what's interesting and why I really like this question from Adri is, I would like to get more tattoos. I'm actually just super concerned about their effects on health and wellness, which is why I haven't don't have more.

Barry Conrad
That makes sense to me, knowing you.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so that was not on my radar back then. I did do some research. There's actually it's really hard to find like solid research on this. I'll tell you what I found.

Okay, so the potential concerns with tattoos tend to be so heavy metal exposure. So many tattoo inks have heavy metals in them like lead, cadmium, chromium, and nickel lymphatic system absorption. So this has definitely been shown in studies. So studies have found the ink particles end up in the lymph nodes. And they can actually stay there indefinitely, which is interesting. The immune system response. So the body does see ink as a foreign substance. So it could trigger for people a low level immune response. Endocrine disruption. So some inks, kind of like the heavy metals, some can have other endocrine disrupting ingredients in them that could be problematic. Let's see. And then okay, skin microbiome disruption. So you're altering the skin barrier and that the microbiome when you're getting a tattoo. So there was a study that came out. Let me see when it came out. So this is this is May 2024. And the title is tattoos as a risk factor for malignant lymphoma, a population based case control study. And they found they concluded that our findings suggest that tattoo exposure was associated with an increased risk of malignant lymphoma. More epidemiological research is urgently needed to establish causality. So they did see a connection between cancer and tattoo ink.

Let's see if there's one more thing here. So a 2016 report from the Australian government's department of health. Hey, hey, they have a have you heard of this organization in Australia, the National Industrial Chemicals Notification and Assessment Scheme. And I see and I guess

Barry Conrad
I have not, but now I do.

Melanie Avalon
Now you do. So they looked at the composition of 49 tattoo inks. They found a mismatch between content and labeling, as well as concerns about some components.

A chemical, a carcinogen called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons were found in a fifth of the samples tested and 83% of the black inks tested. They also found barium, copper, mercury, amines, and various colorants. So I have a lot of thoughts about it, which is, so yes, I think it could definitely be a problem. It could be injecting your body with toxic ingredients and because of how it's in the dermis of the skin and how it relates to the lymph nodes, it's not like you put the toxin, like it's not like you ate the toxin and then excreted it or ate the toxin and your body could deal with it through your gut, which is where the majority of your immune system is. Our body wasn't designed to deal with toxins injected into the skin because that wasn't a possibility. In the evolutionary world, we weren't injecting ink into our skin. So it's a completely different, I think that's what makes it more problematic than even eating these compounds, for example.

That said, I think tattoos can be an incredible way for people to express their identity or put something really meaningful on their body or even just live life with vitality and do things you want to do and die without regrets. Oh, fun fact, because I'm about to interview this incredible woman named Jodi Wellman. She wrote a book called, well, she has like a TED Talk and a whole community around this, but her book is called You Only Die Once. And it's all about living life to the fullest and having meaning and vitality in your life and the concept of a momentum more, remembering death as a way to provide agency to live your life to the fullest now.

In any case, she said, I didn't know this, that out of all the negative emotions, so anger or sadness or guilt, jealousy, regret, do you want to guess which emotion we value the most that's negative and which emotion we dislike the most out of negative ones?

Barry Conrad
I think regret is something that we just like the most. I mean, that you, you don't, no one wants to die with regret, right?

Melanie Avalon
So I guess it's not about liking, I probably said that wrong, it's about which one do we value the most and value the least. So the one that we see that has purpose, I guess, and would have it more compared to the one that we just don't want and we don't see any purpose or we don't... Yeah. Yeah, you told me. People tend to value regret the most because it illuminates things in your life that you value least or dislike the least jealousy, which I completely understand because like what good comes from being jealous, you know?

So all of that to say, back to tattoos, I think they can have a really incredible place in people's lives. So I think you just weigh the cost benefit. Honestly, not that it's probably fine, but if I had to, I think there are worse things you could do. I think the agency that you can take though is try to find or do find, I was actually thinking of getting another tattoo and so I went through this whole process. There are some inks that really brand themselves around being non-toxic and organic and it's hard to know again, especially hearing this study from that Australia company where stuff didn't actually match what was in it, so that's concerning. But definitely, if you are getting one, try to find a tattoo ink brand that is gonna be free of heavy metals or says that they are and work with that. And I was speaking with a tattoo artist and she was able to order whatever ink I wanted.

Barry Conrad
Are you gonna do it, do you think? Do you reckon you'll go through with it? What's your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
not right now. I was kind of feeling it for a while, but I do think I'm going to get another one at some point.

I'm just not sure when I actually think, and this actually might be better because it sounds like the really pigmented ones seem to have more of the problems I would like to get. Have you seen people who have white tattoos?

Barry Conrad
Not in real life, but I've seen it online.

Melanie Avalon
kind of looks like a scar. My friend growing up had one on her wrist and it was white. So maybe I'll get like a white tattoo. That might be cool. Because then you kind of have to know that it's there to see it. I don't know. I'll have to think about it.

How about you? So that was a lot of my tattoo thoughts. What are your tattoo thoughts?

Barry Conrad
No, the study that you brought up, it's pretty scary that if something doesn't match up to what's actually in what's being injected into your skin, that's scary and terrifying. And I do think like what you said, it's so true because it is going to that second layer of skin. It's kind of like pretty much there. That's it, you know, and the high levels of toxicity is not great.

I think at the end of the day, I'm with you, the latter part of it, which is its personal choice. You know, for a lot of people, it can give them meaning, you know, and that significance can maybe outweigh the potential risks. You know, I think it's really important to still do due diligence and research, you know, like, who's the tattoo artist, where they get in the ink from, if you're going to get one. But I do think, you know, if you really want one, I'm not going to prescribe what to do, but I do think life is short and you have to do what brings you life meaning. Just be really careful and mindful and do your research. Yeah, I mean, you said everything about the science and the studies behind it. You've got to watch out because you don't want to be injecting yourself with something that could really harm you in the long run. And this actually made me think about Maori culture in New Zealand because

Melanie Avalon
What culture? What is it?

Barry Conrad
It's M-A-O-R-I and it's pronounced Māori, so they're like the first settlers in New Zealand sort of thing, you know, so the indigenous people in New Zealand and they had tattoos like called mokos and things like that where they would actually carve these tattoos by hand into their faces, into their bodies, and I wonder how they, like, yeah, like didn't have a machine that actually carved like using knives and using tools. So if you Google like Māori, M-A-O-R-I, back in the day and you'll see they have these facial tattoos, tattoos in their body and it was, it's done by hand and in some cultures I believe it still happens that way because it's traditional and I wonder, for example, back in the day what they were using for ink because they, you know, it was way, way back in the day where they didn't have access to what we have now, so I wonder if that is as toxic, was as toxic for their bodies and if that has had an evolutionary effect genetically because a lot of Māori population end up having cancers, which is actually quite an interesting connection.

Yeah, I wonder if that has a connection at all, I wonder.

Melanie Avalon
That's really interesting. Yeah, I think like you re-highlighted again and including with those populations, it's like we just don't, especially reading that study about things mismatching, it's just hard to know what's in that area.

Barry Conrad
ink. The inks that were used by Māori were made of all natural products, burnt wood was used to create black pigments, while the lighter pigments were derived from caterpillars infected with certain types of fungus.

Wowzers.

Melanie Avalon
So that's interesting because to like burnt wood, you know, those burnt compounds are toxic, you know, but it's like, how do they relate to heavy metals or these other ingredients found in inks today? And, you know, it would be hard to know if those had heavy metals or not.

Barry Conrad
It says charcoal, which is burnt wood mixed with oil or liquid from plants. I can imagine that sounds like a concoction of unknown effects back in the day, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And it's so interesting, like I was saying, how the ink, it stays in your skin and, you know, indefinitely, and then it's still those, those ink particles are in the lymph nodes throughout your life.

Too late now with my tattoo, but...

Barry Conrad
Question, would you ever or have you ever or do you think you do ever need to remove it?

Melanie Avalon
for removing it do they just color it over it like how do they do that no i wouldn't

Barry Conrad
laser right this laser tattoo tattoo removal like they're laser it off i mean you can you can cover up with another tattoo but some people just like to get it like removed

Melanie Avalon
Let's see, targets that ink particles breaks them down so your body can gradually eliminate them. Oh, okay. And then, so they're cleared away by your immune system over time.

It's a, I wonder, I wonder like the toxicity of breaking it down and actually dealing with all of it compared to that really, really slow drip of just having it there all the time. It's kind of like when people have heavy, like mercury fillings. And, you know, you want to get them out because you're getting slow, low dose exposure to mercury on a very small level throughout your life. When you take them out though, you want to be really careful that you have a dentist who knows how to do it because otherwise you're going to just expose yourself to a massive mercury shock. So I wonder how, you know, I wonder with like ink removal, like what the toxic effect is from that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because is his name Pete Wentz? Is that his name? The Ariana Grande is, uh, what's his name? Pete Wentz.

Melanie Avalon
I'm so bad with celebrity names.

Barry Conrad
Pete Davidson sorry he has like a whole lot of tattoos and he got them a whole bunch of them removed i wonder how long that took to do he was a cover covered in them.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, for mine, um, I'm just gonna leave it. It's kind of big too. I mean, it's not big, but it could be smaller is the point. If I get another one, it would be small.

Barry Conrad
Where is it? Can I ask?

Melanie Avalon
You can't see it when I have clothes on.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow, that's pretty spicy. Is it like what your lower back or like your, where is it?

Melanie Avalon
I have no comment. Oh, wow. Well, I don't want everybody to know where my dad is. I'll tell you where it is after.

Barry Conrad
I like how quick you were with that. I have no comment.

Melanie Avalon
No comment. Does it even exist? I don't know.

I actually forget that I have it. Like I literally, I don't think I even see it anymore. Does that make sense? Like I don't see it. You know how like the things you're exposed to daily, that's, this is why they say, you know, if you put like a reminder, maybe we've talked about this before, but if you put some like motivational sticky note on your wall or like a motivational poster, if it's in your environment in the same place every day, you stop seeing it because your body, you don't, your body doesn't register it as new information and it just kind of like files it away.

Barry Conrad
That makes sense. But when you when you were saying that and maybe like I don't see it now it even makes me think even more. Where is this tattoo?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I do. Yeah, I have no comment. I don't see it. My point is if I were to see it on my body, I don't notice it. Maybe that's a better way of.

Barry Conrad
Okay, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Well, that was fun.

Barry Conrad
deep dive into tattoos and Melanie's hidden special mysterious tattoo that she has no comment on.

Melanie Avalon
that may or may not exist. I don't know.

Yeah, this is interesting. I wouldn't expect this though. This says that removing that black ink is the easiest to remove. I would not expect that. Colors like green, blue, and yellow are more stubborn.

Barry Conrad
That is interesting. You'd think that black is the hardest, like kind of like how in suit, you know, is left for too long before it's cleaned.

In a way, it's like it's just way harder to get off. I would have thought black ink for sure.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just looking at mine right now. I don't think I've actually looked at it in a long time. I think it looks more blue now.

Barry Conrad
Maybe you should put up a poll for your followers and say, where do you think my tattoo is?

Melanie Avalon
That's our story.

Barry Conrad
Is that good content? I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
Uh, yeah, I'd be curious what people think. So, okay, well, shall we move back sort of to fasting related things? One last comment.

One of the great things about fasting is it really does help with mitigating toxic exposure. It provides the body time for energy to go not towards digestion, which is so consuming of energy and instead go towards these cellular cleanup processes and detoxification. And yes, so if you are getting a tattoo, make sure you're fasting, not like while you're actually getting a tattoo just in general, it might help. I do know it was way more painful than I thought it would be.

Barry Conrad
Depending where it is right like if it's on that sensitive like bone or like some skins really sensitive to write.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And well, yeah, the location matters. But I just remember thinking I remember thinking people get these all the time. It can't be that painful.

And like you see people with so many tattoos. And I remember she started doing it. And I was like, Oh, this is not fun. This is not

Barry Conrad
But when I talk to me to have like a lot of tattoos and like bro how why do you keep getting more if you keep saying how painful they are and like it's kind of addictive just the feeling it's like pain pleasure thing.

Melanie Avalon
You definitely get an endorphin high from that for sure because it's like being stung by a bee just like constantly.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds awesome. It sounds like a day well spent to me.

Melanie Avalon
But you know what, it might not be that bad now. I feel like I've done a lot more painful things now, like laser hair removal, that's painful. I feel like the more you do, it's, yeah.

Barry Conrad
You do laser, you do that?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. It's like the best thing ever.

Barry Conrad
Okay i'm not gonna ask where but why what made you want to do that rather than cuz you're not not a hairy from what i can see very.

Melanie Avalon
put yourself into the mind of a female. You men, you don't have to shave your legs like every day in the shower. Do you know how much time that takes?

And then the idea of never having to shave your legs again. And then men, do men shave their armpits? I don't, do you?

Barry Conrad
some bodybuilder guys that I know they do for like comps and stuff, but it's not something that I know some guys do, but I don't think it's like as common for sure. I don't. Do you shave your

Melanie Avalon
upper lip.

Barry Conrad
Will I shave my face?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, men do shave their face. Okay, wow. That was a blonde moment.

So it's a very, it's a very time consuming process to shave your legs and armpits all the time. And then when you don't have to do that anymore, it's mind blowing. It's amazing.

Barry Conrad
So does it come back, like what's the rate of the return?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, that's the thing. And that's why I'm saying like, I feel like I could tolerate a tattoo better now because you have to go like 16 sessions, or over like 16 months, you go like every six weeks for about 16 months.

And then, and then you do touch ups, like, you do less and less touch ups as time goes on.

Barry Conrad
That sounds like a lot, but also I can see how we cut out a lot of time doing it every day, like shaving.

Melanie Avalon
It's so great. You never have to have the moment of, oh, I forgot to shave my legs. So does it hurt? Does it hurt? Yes. It does. Yes. It's not that bad now that I've done it so much for so long.

Barry Conrad
I'm picturing like zap, zap, zap, like a little gun, like a, is it like that?

Melanie Avalon
It's kind of like the tattoo, it's like getting stung constantly.

Barry Conrad
How long is the session, like how long does it take to do one session?

Melanie Avalon
depends how much you're doing. So probably, I mean, you're probably, I mean, it really depends how much how long you're you're doing. But like doing your legs might take maybe if you're if it's like the first time and you haven't done it before ever. So there's more it might take like 15 minutes.

Maybe your underarms would take like two minutes. Like not long upper lip takes less than a minute.

Barry Conrad
I reckon I'd get ticklish if I did cut underarm laser.

Melanie Avalon
That's interesting because I am ticklish, but it's just like zapping you. So there's more pain than more pain than tickle and it smells like.

Barry Conrad
popcorn. Is it a sense to it once the hair is fried?

Melanie Avalon
This is the hair burning. Yeah, burning. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
there you go yep so that's more painful than tattoos so tattoo should be a breeze the next one

Melanie Avalon
I don't I don't know because I haven't I haven't done tattoos since I was 17. So but if I don't, so it's hard to remember.

But I can kind of remember I think it's probably equal to some of the more painful areas of laser hair removal.

Barry Conrad
There we go. Well, I heard females have a higher threshold, pain threshold too. So is it?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, for sure.

Barry Conrad
She didn't even let me finish that one. She's like, yeah, for sure.

Melanie Avalon
No, that's like scientifically studied. We do. We have to bear children. There you go.

Barry Conrad
Just that one tiny detail. You know we have to be a children.

Melanie Avalon
Just that one little detail, yep. So, okay, now shall we have our proverbial fast-breaking moment?

Barry Conrad
I think we should definitely have that proverbial fast-breaking moment. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
So for listeners, the purpose of this portion of the show is because it's not just about the fasting, it's also about the eating window. And that is the time when you are providing the nutrients to your body, the food that helps grow your muscles, your bones, all the things.

I guess people know our daily fasting window. I was going to say that we could say, you know, what we actually fast daily. But yes, I think they're pretty familiar. I do the one meal a day with the dinner.

Barry Conrad
the dinner and I pretty much do the same. I'd say 20, I'd do 24, but it's one meal a day. I don't eat beyond that. So same.

Melanie Avalon
So what restaurant did you pick today?

Barry Conrad
So this week's restaurant, Melanie, we're breaking a fast proverbially with a place that's in the Guinness Book of Records. It's called Sabrina de Boten, and it's the world's oldest restaurant, still running strong in Madrid since- Wait, really? Yes, since 1725. According to the Guinness Book, since 1725, Hemingway used to feast here. The suck- the roast suckling pig is legendary. It's cooked in a wood-fired oven that hasn't gone cold in almost 300 years. That's kind of the energy we're showing up to you with this restaurant, Melanie. So it's pretty incredible.

It was founded by French Chef Boten and his wife. It's got like a narrow cobbled street, you know? So picture that in your head. You can sit at Hemingway's favorite corner table. Some famous guests were Graham Green, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Emer Royalty. The meats are marinated with garlic and olive oil, so there's this delicious smell going through and obviously the oven there hasn't been turned off. So think of all the flavors. Think of all the infusion of flavors.

Melanie Avalon
Think about how many meals have been had here. 300, that's... I wonder how many meals have been had here where they were breaking their fast, like their long fast.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure many because I don't know what for sure some people wouldn't be able to eat all day and they just had their dinner or their lunch or whatever, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And in the past, it was way more common to not be eating 24 seven.

Barry Conrad
Exactly. So they were onto it, you know, they knew what was up.

So this family run, they're still family run after 300 years. They've been running it since the Gonzales family's been running this since 1930s, so they keep things really classic, unpretentious and like not changed too much, which kind of, I can imagine like walking in there would be like going into a time, I'm guessing like a time warp kind of thing.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if it's haunted.

Barry Conrad
It could be, let's pull up the menu, let's see what we got.

Melanie Avalon
I had to, I switched the language to, they chose to have the UK flag instead of the US flag for English. Oh, really? This is such a great find. You gotta go there sometime.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so this menu is kind of interesting. It doesn't like say lunch dinner. It's just like the menu. So we'll pretend we're all not pretend we're doing dinner. And I guess let's go to each section. Starters. Yeah, starters. Yeah.

So Melanie is a booty salad. Have a look at the starters. And what is catching your eye for your starters?

Melanie Avalon
Is booty salad like pirate booty? Yeah, maybe actually. I'm guessing so.

Oh, they have acorn-fed Iberian ham. Yes. Yeah. I'm excited. Okay. I want, oh, and they have smoked salmon. Yes. Okay. We're at a good place here. So I'm going to get the acorn-fed Iberian ham and smoked salmon, please.

Barry Conrad
Yum. I'm going to try that. I'm going to copy you and go for that smoked salmon because I love it. I love it.

And then I'm going to I'm going to ask you if I can taste the acorn fed over in Ham and I'll get something else. How about? Of course you can. Can I? Yeah. I'll have the chicken and ham croquettos.

Melanie Avalon
Hmm. Oh, do you like anchovies? They have anchovies with peppers. I'm curious. Do you like anchovies?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I actually love anchovies. Do you like having them?

I like having them on toasted sourdough bread with a spread of cream cheese, fresh anchovies with a bit of pepper and salt. Chef's kiss. It's such a good fast breaker for me sometimes with a Riesling. It's so good.

Melanie Avalon
Yum. So I have a confession. Cool. I don't think I've ever had anchovies.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean you haven't had them?

Melanie Avalon
I don't think I've had them. I don't know when I... I don't think I've had them. We gotta get the anchovies with peppers.

Barry Conrad
Let's do that. And I also highly recommend, I'm guessing Whole Foods definitely has anchovies, so you got to get some.

Melanie Avalon
Try it and I know they're so nutrient dense and they're very low mercury. They're like super low mercury.

Barry Conrad
So the question then is why?

Melanie Avalon
So is it like the entire fish and you eat the entire fish?

Barry Conrad
No, like the intro is like it sort of comes in a glass bottle or like sometimes a can or like a dish and it's just like

Melanie Avalon
But isn't it the entire fish?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sorry, yes, you have the little mini-fishes, yeah, you have the whole thing.

Melanie Avalon
like you eat the whole thing right like the whole fish but they're little yeah yeah no no you don't you don't have to convince me twice i love whole fish i i love to go to whole foods and like buy a fish and then i go

Barry Conrad
But why haven't you tried it, like what's putting you off?

Melanie Avalon
I think it kind of just fell through the cracks, growing up, it's like, ew, anchovies. I wouldn't have had them. And then I became a carnivorous-loving human being, prancing around the world. And I just never, oh, I wasn't really eating salads then. So I wasn't, I feel like that's how people get exposed to them a lot, is through salads. And then I never, it's never something I thought to go just buy. And then it's not, this is why. It's not usually on a menu by itself. So like I said, it's normally on salads and I'm not ordering salads. That's my explanation.

That makes sense to me. Like, I think this is the first time that I've seen anchovies as its own thing to order.

Barry Conrad
Do you know what I was, can you look up anchovies on sourdough bread for me, please? This is what I know you don't love or eat, really eat bread, but it's honestly so good.

It's so good. It's really good. It's really tasty.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder how it's prepared the anchovies with peppers. What peppers? Like what type of peppers?

Barry Conrad
Do you know what I actually thought the reason was that you haven't had them? It's because a while ago you're like, I don't, I don't like things.

If it smells too fishy, like it over, or if it tastes the whole thing.

Melanie Avalon
What's interesting is I do anticipate that it might have, like, does it taste really fishy?

Barry Conrad
I don't know how to answer that question because it's...

Melanie Avalon
Does it taste like oysters? Does it taste like the ocean? Does it taste like everything wrong with the ocean?

Barry Conrad
It doesn't, okay, oysters is very right about the ocean and also- Incarnate. It doesn't taste too fishy to me anyway. Anyways, we definitely need to get this.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm, you know what we need to be doing we need to be making we need to be making like a document Okay, I'm gonna make a document in my Evernote where every time we have we find something at some restaurant somewhere where it's like Oh, we have to have this specific thing. We'll have a list so I'm gonna add anchovies with peppers at Botan Madrid to the list because we're not gonna remember everything

Barry Conrad
No, it's definitely not.

Melanie Avalon
What is Burgos Black Pudding? Is that blood pudding?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it reminds your blood pudding. I feel like it might be that.

Yeah, it's a sausage made mostly with pork blood, okay, which includes rice as one of its basic ingredients. I don't think you're gonna like that one, Mel. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, I think we're good.

I think, I think we're, I feel good about, about this. And I'm going to have for dessert. I'm going to save some, I'm probably going to have ham for dessert, by the way, because I feel like I'm really going to like that ham.

Barry Conrad
Well you might have you might love the anchovies and peppers I know I know I might for your meat or whatever you're like whatever what would you like for your.

Melanie Avalon
savory dessert.

Barry Conrad
What would you like to get for your... How do you say it? The main event. Okay, we'll go with that one.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, do you want a soup? Okay, so this menu is organized really interestingly. It's kind of confusing. Do you want a soup at all? I don't.

Barry Conrad
I don't love gazpacho. I have had some good gazpacho, but

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, wait, but they have poultry broth. That's cool. Oh my, I might get that. Oh my goodness, like a soup I can actually have? That's cool.

Barry Conrad
cool. So I'm guessing, so would that be like almost like a bone broth type vibe? It's just like chicken stock kind of thing? Is that the vibe?

Melanie Avalon
Maybe, I think so, I like that. I'm gonna get that.

Barry Conrad
You know what, I'll do the garlic soup with egg and ham. That sounds pretty good to me.

Melanie Avalon
That sounds good. I do love garlic. Do you like garlic?

Barry Conrad
I do, and I know that you love to have it, especially when you have to talk to people afterwards, right? That's your favorite thing.

Melanie Avalon
love it. My favorite thing.

It's so sad because out of all the foods, it's probably the food that I most love so much that has a visceral, actual negative effect on me the next day because of garlic breath. I love garlic. If you do not get garlic breath, I would drench the entirety of everything I eat in garlic. Every vampire would be on their knees because I would be all the garlic.

Barry Conrad
But there's got to be a solution. I mean, like, come on, someone has to have made like a little gimmick or something to quick, this gets rid of your garlic breath.

Melanie Avalon
There's like chlorophyll, parsley. I think the solution is to not drench things in garlic and just have a little bit, which is sad, but oh well.

Barry Conrad
Unless you're eating at home, right? And you're not going to see someone in like 40 hours.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, this is the thing, so this is the problem. It's not like the issue is when you're actually having it because then you could time control and like, okay, so I'm at home having garlic. It's that it's the next day that it shows up. So you have to like plan for that.

Barry Conrad
Are you sure?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean, that's-

Barry Conrad
That's my experience.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no, no, no, I am certain I'm certain because I have this one spice blend at home that I really like and has garlic in it and if I go a little bit too hard, like too much with it, the next day there is and I'm not anticipating there to be garlic breath the next day, it's like the next day I'm like, Oh, man, like I noticed the garlic breath and then I'm like, Oh, you had too much last night. So it's not like I'm waiting for it to happen.

Barry Conrad
Okay, here's the deal when I when we finally do me and stuff one of the days you can have garlic and then I'll test it the next day like oh, Melanie, what the next day it's like you are.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Nope. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Okay, what would you like to have for your entree or entrees?

Melanie Avalon
So the way it's organized, we have meat and roasts, we have vegetables, we have eggs, and we have fish. So I guess we can, what are the eggs?

Okay, so eggs are like scrambled eggs as like a thing. Do you think it's any time of the day, scrambled eggs, either of the house or with asparagus or with smoked salmon?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I do think that.

Melanie Avalon
Asparagus is asparagus is another one that has a an effect that happens later. Oh god, like there's some foods and it's like I Find that so interesting

Barry Conrad
So you can basically just take your pick and just mix and match, really. This is fish.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, this restaurant is amazing. I'm thinking in how there's so many just like meats and fishes like by themselves.

Barry Conrad
Look at the fish section. I think you'll be happy. What are Elver's?

Melanie Avalon
Do you see the price?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, 180, 180 euros?

Barry Conrad
They're shipped to live to Asia where they're grown to maturity and eaten.

Melanie Avalon
They're eels. They're glass eels.

Barry Conrad
They're extremely valuable with nearly five thousand dollars a kilo last year compared to lobster which is worth fifteen dollars that's crazy that's a lot of money.

Melanie Avalon
it's interesting because everything else is in the twenties everything else is in the twenties except for the grilled shrimp in the thirties and then there's a hundred and eighty

Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, let's assume that this restaurant graciously wanted us to be there and they said you could have whatever you want, so we don't have to pay for it.

Melanie Avalon
So have you had eel before?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, nah.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think so either. You know what I think eel is gonna be? I feel like it might be an oyster situation. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
I don't think no cuz an eel is like it seems like it'll be meaty like it's a like you know a thing It's not like a little jello It's like a snake type Thing right an eel. I don't think it's gonna be also also Melanie it's not good.

It's definitely not gonna be like oysters. I don't think

Melanie Avalon
Eel has a unique, slightly sweet, savory flavor. Okay, if you've ever had eel sushi, that's a good example.

Okay, so I think to answer your question, I'm really excited actually by the meats and roasts. There's so many options.

Okay, stewed partridge. I've never had partridge, but I don't want it stewed.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I feel like this is the type of restaurant, so if they said, we'll love to have you, we'd have to get like one of those four person tables so we can have, I feel like we're going to order up, yeah, and so we can just taste things because there's too much to.

Melanie Avalon
I'll just have everything on the menu. Like all the meats. This is really hard. Grilled enchocote, do you know what that is? I don't, what is it? It's a French term for ribeye.

Barry Conrad
Whoa, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Learn something new every day.

Barry Conrad
at a Spanish restaurant at a Spanish restaurant.

Melanie Avalon
I know, and they have a roast suckling pig. What I'm confused about is, because I always thought a roast suckling pig, I thought it was like the entire pig type situation, but it's a similar price to everything else.

So is it like an entree version of a roast suckling pig? I'm confused.

Barry Conrad
I think it would probably be just a smaller portion, I guess, not the whole pig kind of thing on the plate. There you go.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, it's not like the... Yeah, because I'm picturing that image of the... Yep, yeah. I think I know what I want.

I want so many things. I think the veal fillet, rare, and... Oh, we're going to try the elvers because we want to try eel. And I kind of want the suckling peg. Yeah. Okay. And then I'm going to... For dessert, I'm going to grab something from this list. How about you?

Barry Conrad
So, I'm going to get the mushroom, sirloin, steak with mushrooms, sirloin, steak with mushrooms. It kind of sounds confusing.

So, I'll have that because I love mushrooms and steak, so I'll do that and then I'll also do the roast lamb and I'll also do clam's botan because clams are going to love that.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think I've ever had clams. Really? I don't think so.

And what's crazy is we would always go to Florida growing up and clams are on every single menu everywhere. I don't think I've had them. Are they like scallops? I don't know why I think they're like scallops.

Barry Conrad
They're very, very similar.

Melanie Avalon
Do they taste similar to scallops?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's why I thought I was I'm confused that you didn't I'm surprised you didn't choose clams I'll get some clams and then some grilled shrimp As well. Can I try the clams?

Of course And then also with that because there's vegetables and the shrimp

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I was going to get the shrimp for dessert, but yeah.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna do some sauteed artichokes with a beer and ham as a side with those main things because you got the pig right so we can share that we can have some of the pig together no eggs.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and I want the pig also rare. Are you okay with that? Or does pig have to be medium? Are you scared of trichinosis? What are tricha? What is it? Tricha?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that because I don't know because isn't isn't pork meant to be pretty well, like I've never heard of pork being like had rare.

Melanie Avalon
I actually was researching this recently and there was a whole thing where you had to cook pork all the way through, but they actually changed the recommendations and you are allowed to have it less cooked now.

Barry Conrad
Oh man, I don't know. Oh yeah. Okay. I'll give it a go. I'm pretty.

Melanie Avalon
We can get it medium.

Barry Conrad
Rare on that. I made a mine my videographer for banter with BC. He actually went to a restaurant and they had chicken sashimi. I'm like, I'm not brave enough to try that.

I'm not brave enough to try that. But it's a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Do they do anything to it to ensure that it's safe?

Barry Conrad
It's really really fresh obviously and they're they're basing in something I can't remember what he said but I'm like he showed me a photo it just looks like you look really rare just chicken breasts like cut really finely so like wow that's that's brave wow.

Melanie Avalon
That's interesting.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it is interesting, but apparently it's really good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would do that. Wow. Okay. And then for our dessert, I was saving the shrimp for dessert.

So I will have pre-ordered, oh, they have garlic shrimp. Probably the grilled shrimp for dessert. And then a repeat of, from the starters, if I like the anchovies or the smoked salmon or the acorn-fed Iberian ham, whatever I really liked the most for dessert. My savory dessert. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I've got three desserts that I'm going to get, and can you take a guess? I reckon you should be able to guess these. I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
Chocolate cake. What is botan cake?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly, a ting.

Melanie Avalon
We don't know what it is, but it's like their thing. Yeah, okay. Oh wait. I'm two for okay Okay, um and then Okay, I feel like I feel like you either liked this or were you a tiramisu fan

Barry Conrad
Yes, you got three for three.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm bowing.

Barry Conrad
You could literally, you could order for me. It's like, yeah, Barry will have this.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, and we have to tell listeners how many options there are. There's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, There are 12 options and I picked. Oh my god, I am so proud of myself.

Barry Conrad
You should be proud of yourself. So listen, at this point, we, we're getting to know each other's food preferences pretty well at this point, which is really good.

Melanie Avalon
This will be the craziest first time going to a restaurant with somebody that you've never gone to a restaurant before, experience ever, because like the amount of knowledge we will have.

Barry Conrad
And then also if you order something that's out of like off character, like that's not in character. What are you ordering that for?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, what are you doing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what are you doing? That's not you. Why are you ordering everything with the sources not on the side, Mel? What are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
Man, amazing. I actually, I would, I'm really intrigued by the scrambled eggs. I might get that for dessert.

I think I might get scrambled eggs with smoked salmon for dessert. That sounds really cool.

Barry Conrad
That sounds good, but I don't see a beverage selection anywhere. Do you see any?

Melanie Avalon
Is this a dry restaurant for 300 years?

Barry Conrad
to be something to drink. Maybe desserts. I don't see it. Well, that's odd.

That's okay. No, this is actually really surprising because it's a Spanish restaurant, but let's pretend that we get to BYO, so we'll bring a couple bottles one each of something that we like.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect, I will bring some dry farm wines.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to bring some Pinagugio, or actually, no, because we had a Spanish version. I'm going to bring some Tempranillo. Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Okay. Well, great find!

Barry Conrad
Thanks.

Melanie Avalon
And they're open Mondays to Sundays. I can't speak non- I can't speak this language. Okay, Mondays to Sundays from one o'clock to eleven thirty. That's pretty good.

In Australia, do you use that sort of time? How do you do time there?

Barry Conrad
Actually, one of the things I dislike probably about Australia is that the opening hours of restaurants are not, it's not that much. It's like dinner's like from maybe five or six to ten. It's not long, you know, whereas in America there's a lot of like late or all night places.

Melanie Avalon
Do you do one through 12 and then again, or do you do 24 hours?

Barry Conrad
Not 20, definitely not 24 hours. Yeah, no way. Maybe.

Melanie Avalon
So you don't call it 23 o'clock. Sorry, I was... We're having two different conversations right now. Do you do 23 o'clock or do you do 11 o'clock?

Barry Conrad
We do 11 o'clock.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, okay. You? Yeah, we do 11 o'clock. This menu though is in, it's in like 23 o'clock. Is so in Spain, do they do it that way, I guess?

Barry Conrad
We're assuming that it does. Let's just go with that.

Melanie Avalon
Who knows? Okay, well, that was an amazing find. Thank you so much, I really wanna go here.

Barry Conrad
Same. And we need that document. We definitely need to put together the things that we want to try, like anchovies and peppers.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Yes. And eels.

Barry Conrad
Elvers, whatever, Elvers.

Melanie Avalon
elvers, but more so than anchovies. Okay, well friends, listeners, I hope you enjoyed today's show.

If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifebodcast.com or you can go to ifebodcast.com. You can submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifebodcast.com slash episode 426. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad, and we are IF Podcast. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for joining us again this week everyone have an amazing day and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
Likewise, I will talk to you next week. Okay, bye. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intramism Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week!

Jun 09

Episode 425 – Cold While Fasting, Fasting For Athletic Performance, Can You Perform At Your Best While Fasting, Alcohol Drinking Or Not, Ramadan Fasting, Daniel Fasting, Warming And Cooling Foods, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 425 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

SHOW NOTES


SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS


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Get $100 off with code melanieavalon at melanieavalon.com/ionlayer.

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: San Angel Inn Restaurante⁠

Book: Healing with Whole Foods, Third Edition


STUDIES

Intermittent Fasting: Does It Affect Sports Performance? A Systematic Review

Core body temperature, energy expenditure, and epinephrine during fasting, eucaloric feeding, and overfeeding in healthy adult men: evidence for a ceiling effect for human thermogenic response to diet

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TRANSCRIPT

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Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 425 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 425 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey Mel hey everyone I'm doing really good it's a jam packed Wednesday for me here in Australia and it's all happening that's one of those days in a good way how about you.

Melanie Avalon
Same, and I'm just reflecting on how when Barry Conrad says jam-packed, like the stuff you go to and do, you set the bar high for doing really cool things, like events and stuff.

Barry Conrad
You do too though, so what do you mean? You do amazing stuff.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like I kind of exist though within a circle of like I go to shows at this theater or this theater like it's a little bit limited. You like go to like all these crazy events and like red carpets.

I mean it's it's very cool. It's very cool.

Barry Conrad
Thanks. Well, tonight, speaking of red carpets, I'm going to the Rolling Stone Australia Awards. Mic drop.

Mic drop. But it's going to be pretty lit. It's going to be like the shot glass you bought me.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, I think I was aware. Well, I guess I knew that Rolling Stones was very international.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so there's obviously in America, Australia, and it's going to be like star studded night, like lots of amazing Australian talent, lots of categories, red carpet, lots of good, you know, drinks, connections, people, it'd be fun. It'd be good.

Melanie Avalon
Super exciting. Can't wait to see all the pictures.

Barry Conrad
What about you? How's your week been? How's your day been? How's everything in your world?

Melanie Avalon
The world is good. I had a very good meeting today. We wrapped up the financial model for the dating app I am working on. Whoa. We've talked about that, right?

Barry Conrad
You mentioned to me ages ago but now you bring it up again I'm like. Almost my mind that you were doing that I can't melody and I can't keep up with all of your projects so tell me again about the stating out.

Melanie Avalon
been working on it a long time. I don't know. I think I've mentioned it on the show. So we're aiming to have it come out hopefully January 2026. Fingers crossed we shall see.

But basically it is a dating app which allows you to filter and sort by and connect depending on your dietary and drink preferences. So it's going to be like any other dating app, the big mainstream dating apps, you know, hinge, bumble, the league, et cetera. And you will be able to search by diet. So.

Barry Conrad
That's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
So people who are like paleo, or keto, or vegan, or carnivore, pescatarian, whatever you are, gluten-free, organic, there's a filter for that. And then also on the drink side of things, we're going to do if you're, you know, like a wine lover or there's this whole sober curious movement, you know, if you're not a drinker.

Because so much of dating and relationships involves food and drinks. They did a study where they looked at the top four different first dates and they all involve food or drink, all of them.

Barry Conrad
I'm not surprised that that makes total sense and it's important if you don't if you're not compatible sure you can have your own situation that's totally fine but if it's going to be so different where you can't. I just put so many parameters around what you can do together that can kind of get in the way maybe what do you think.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I also I left out so it's also going to be like food if you're just like a food lover, you know, because that's a whole category people who love food and they're not dietary like restrictions per se. And there's also like a whole world of like junk food lovers, like that's a whole that's a whole community.

Wow. Yeah, I know this because I read the blogs of them. So I guess I'm in the community. I just don't eat any of it. Oh, my goodness. Okay, but to answer your question, great question. Yes. So I think I think people being on the same page about a lot of stuff about food and drink is just so helpful and important for especially like the drinking and then on the food side of things when you're, yeah, choosing restaurants, going out. I mean, I'm all good for people to eat whatever they want to eat. Honestly, like it does not bother me do what you want to do. At the same time, I think if I was ongoing with somebody who was not into any sort of healthy diet, that might be a little bit difficult.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you in the sense that people can eat whatever they want around me, but if I had to be around someone that, for example, was an alcoholic that, or someone that really struggled with alcohol, and then I had to sort of watch that, I don't know, it's not a deal breaker at all, but I do think it just makes it easier to be compatible when you like the same things. So some of the same things anyway.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, and it's really interesting, like, on the drink thing, like, there's the whole sober curious movement, like I said, where I feel like a lot of people are into that now.

Oh, and they'll also have a section for like coffee, you know, so if you're like a coffee lover, you're just, oh, now I'm just brainstorming. I could integrate with my coffee company. Oh my goodness. Vertical. No, that wouldn't be vertical integration. That would be the glow. We're still figuring out our marketing strategies and, you know, user acquisition and such, but at some point we will have a landing page where we can get people, people coming, but it's going to be called craving.

Barry Conrad
I love their name. It's genius for what it is, the kind of app it is.

Melanie Avalon
I think we talked about this. I think you should be like the cover model. Oh my goodness. We could do ads. We could do a photo shoot together. That'd be so funny.

Barry Conrad
Even if you wanted to listen as if you tuned in recently when Mel talked about her mirror technique, remember that, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, so we will bring the mirror to set and then you can adopt the mirror technique.

Barry Conrad
I somehow think I wouldn't be as good at it as you, because you have a downpact. You like stroll it out.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like you'd be a natural. All you do is you just pose in the mirror.

Barry Conrad
I think I'd be too self-conscious where I think it helps you get shy to see myself like I can't see myself.

Melanie Avalon
That's so funny. It's going to help. That's so interesting. You're so right. So like it would help me and like help me take good photos and it might do the opposite for you.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's the same thing like when I'm doing yeah, I can't watch myself I just have to be in it and just do it and then just let them decide You know

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Listeners, let us know.

Okay. So this is not the selfie situation to clarify for listeners. This is when somebody's taking your photo. Can you just have the photo be taken or would you rather see yourself in a mirror and pose yourself such as I do?

Barry Conrad
You are the very first person, you in Paris, it's the view of the very first example, you in Paris, that I've heard of, who does this. So that's a first.

I'm going to start a trend. Speaking of wine, by the way, going back to what you were saying about sober curious, I'm not sober curious necessarily, but for the past week, I didn't buy any wine to have around the house because I'm in a new apartment right now. And usually I drink on the daily while I'm cooking to break my fast, which listeners might know. But last week I didn't buy any, just to kind of see how I felt. And interestingly enough, I don't know if I feel any different, which is curious, like I'm curious about Melanie, because a lot of people, you know, have dramatic changes like, oh, I've sleep better, or I feel better in the morning, but I actually don't feel a difference. So that's really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
I, you know, I did a similar, well, it was more intense. I told you I didn't drink for a whole year, right?

Barry Conrad
What?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Why? For the same reason that you did last week. I was like, I'm going to do it for a year. I went a year with no caffeine, no alcohol.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow, that's impressive though.

Melanie Avalon
to see if this thing they speak of where they're like, cut out all the stuff, you'll feel amazing. So I was like, I'm going to try that. And I didn't feel any different. I did not feel, I felt less amazing by the end.

And then I got kind of scared because I was like, Oh, I've been going so long without caffeine and alcohol. Like, you know, how do I bring it back now that I've been so long without it? So literally I made my new year's resolution was to start drinking again.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. So when you had that first sip of wine or coffee after that, like what went through your body or your mind? Like, were you waiting for like a reaction? What happened?

Melanie Avalon
So what's interesting for coffee, I never, I didn't bring it back. I didn't bring back it. I did not bring back a ton of it. I brought back, I just have a little bit every morning.

That's like my, my sweet spot for the wine. I don't, you know what? I actually don't remember to answer your question about feeling different or not. I know what the answer is for me, which is that if I'm doing all my stuff, which is the organic wine, you know, lower alcohol, lower sugar, having my z-biotics, probiotic, pre-alcohol drink, doing all my things, I'm just genuinely happier with wine in my life. I think for me, it's like, it's like a ritual. I, you know, it's like a tasting experience. It like brings all good things to my life and my experience. So yes, but if I were drinking like normal stuff, not with all the stuff, I would, I would definitely feel different drinking or not drinking, I think. You, I think you're, I think you're just a very, very good alcohol processor, like genetically. I thought you were going to say.

Barry Conrad
I think you're just a really good alcoholic, I'm not an alcoholic, Melanie, no alcohol, but yeah, I think so too, which is really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's really interesting that you don't feel any different.

Barry Conrad
Because my father, for example, he really struggled and struggles with alcohol, and it has been really awful. So it's just interesting that genetically I'm able to process it in a way different way. So that's really, I'm fascinated by that.

I want to look more into it. Because I am mindful that I don't want to have any excess, but it doesn't impact my life, my ability to focus, because my ability to work the way I feel, the way I train, and my bloods as well, my blood work. So do I keep down that road, or do I just pull back to prevent future issues?

Melanie Avalon
I'll let you know. Honestly, from all the research I've done, I do think there are health benefits to, especially if it's wine, having daily wine, like longevity wise, heart health wise, all the things. It's similar to you because there is in my family, there are people who struggle with, not my immediate, like my extended family, there are people who struggle with alcohol and it is really interesting how some people really fall into that addiction pattern and others don't. Like for me, I have zero, I don't have, I have zero fear of that happening to me. So yeah, it's really interesting.

And I will say, oh, so I'm gonna share this with listeners. I had always been talking, I've been talking a lot about ion layer and AD patches, which I was wearing those when I would go out and or the next day. It's your body's master metabolic enzyme that is involved in like basically everything that you do when it gets depleted by drinking. So it always really helped me with, especially when I have like a night out with a lot of drinks. Now they have a glutathione patch as well. Oh my goodness, my protocol now, game changer, it is insane. I've realized now when I go out, this is so crazy, now when I go out and I drink much more than I do normally, I actually feel better the next day than most days because I do this protocol and the only time I do the protocol is when I'm going out. So I wear the glutathione patch while going out and then the next day I wear the NAD patch, it's shocking, it's amazing.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to try all of these things all of these tax I can't when I moved to America can't wait to do it try it all.

Melanie Avalon
It's, I know, we got to get you stocked up on Ion Layer because it's amazing. So listeners, you can go to melonyavalon.com slash Ion Layer, use the code Melanieavalon, that will get you $100 off. So definitely try that.

Should we jump into some things?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump in.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study to start us off with. And today, I'm bringing a study called intermittent fasting, does it affect sports performance? I was really excited about this, because as you know, I train a lot, love all this. And it was published in the journal nutrients back in February 2024.

And it's sort of like a systematic review led by researchers from the University of Milan in Italy. And it dives into something we get asked about all the time, can you still perform at your best, whether in the gym, on the field, wherever you train, while intermittent fasting. So this wasn't, it wasn't like a small one off study, they sort of they actually pulled together from 25 different studies, the data. So we're talking about like a pretty comprehensive look at how intermittent fasting impacts a whole range of athletic markers. So think strength, endurance, power output, aerobic capacity, even recovery. And here's what I found super interesting. Now, across the board, results showed that intermittent fasting doesn't negatively affect sports performance. And in some cases, it even even enhanced it.

So let's get into that. So one of the most common fasting styles or protocols that came up in this was the 16, eight method. And so for newcomers, anyone listening for the first time where you're new to intermittent fasting, that means 16 hours fasting, eight hours eating, which a lot of you already know. So with athletes who followed this, researchers found no significant decrease in strength or endurance performance. And if anything, a lot of them actually improve their body composition, which really excited me because I was like reading like, please not be bad. And this basically means more lean muscle, less fat, who doesn't want that, not me.

And another big takeaway was how intermittent fasting seemed to improve metabolic efficiency. So what I mean by that for anyone who doesn't know is the body sort of becomes better at using like a fat for energy, especially during the fasting window, which means athletes aren't constantly relying on quick carbs to get through a workout. And over time, like that shift can sort of lead to more more stability in your energy, improved insulin sensitivity, even enhanced recovery markers, which is massive because recovery is so important.

And the only difference though, that I found was where things got more nuanced was during the like the Ramadan style fasting. Side of things. And that means like sort of dry fasting during the day and dry fasting is like no food, no water. That's pretty intense. And in some of the cases, especially with those elite athletes, the performance did dip during that Ramadan style situation. But the study points out that it wasn't necessarily the fasting that caused that issue. It was often like a mix of hydration, sleep, depletion, inconsistent training because of not feeling strong because of the fasting.

So I guess it's the context, you know, so one of the coolest parts of me about this was that certain faster athletes actually improve their short bursts, high intensity performance.

Barry Conrad
So we're talking things like sprints, which I love hill sprints, and I've said that before. So sprints, hit training, jumps, that kind of thing, which actually totally debunks and or challenges the idea that, you know, you have to be quote unquote constantly fed, constantly eating to be explosive or, or powerful. It's just the more we delve into the research, it's just not the case. So of course, like, you still need proper nutrition, you still need recovery, hydration, but fasting when done right, it doesn't have to hold you back.

And this sort of talks about that might even give you that edge. So the researchers at the end, they did say, though, there's a lot more work to be done, especially with the longer term studies and standardized protocols. But the early signs look pretty, pretty promising, especially if you're someone who's fasting on the regular and wondering if you leave in the gains on the table, you're not leaving the gains on the table. So science is showing that we can fast and train and perform and recover like a bus. So Mel, what do you I'd love to hear your thoughts. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I love it so much. And you said when you sat down to read it, what did you think it was going to say?

Barry Conrad
I wasn't worried, but there's always something in the back of my mind like I don't want any new research to come out saying fasting is going to inhibit your performance because I'm so active and so I was glad that these are the findings.

Melanie Avalon
No, that's amazing. I love it.

It's so interesting because people just have... I feel like still they're really, really concerned and think that it really will impede performance and it's just not, you know, seemingly what the people's experience shows, what the studies show. I'm glad that you drew attention to the Ramadan thing because, you know, I feel like that's completely different. So like people not drinking water, like just like dry fasting. Yeah, I would not even... I would not even look at that for athletic performance because that's such a huge factor. Like electrolyte balance and hydration is so important. And then like you said, it's also affecting other lifestyle factors as well.

Amazing. 25 studies.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. So I thought it was really comprehensive. And yeah, I do think I agree with what you said as well.

The Ramada, I feel like it's a different category. Do you think like it's not even, it's not really intermittent fasting.

Melanie Avalon
So, I mean, it is, it is intermittent fasting because I mean, they don't eat during daylight hours, right? So they're getting, I don't, I don't know how long when it's done.

And I don't like, when is it, when is Ramadan?

Barry Conrad
I wanna say, hold on, I don't wanna get this wrong.

Melanie Avalon
February in the U.S. Okay, so like in February, in 2025, it's Friday, February 28th through Saturday, March 29th. Okay.

What I'm trying to envision, what's interesting about it, oh, this is interesting. Oh, I find this interesting. I never thought about this. So, you know, it's a religious event, but the dates are set. So that means depending on where you are, like where you live, it's going to depend on how many daylight hours you have.

Barry Conrad
That is interesting.

Melanie Avalon
So, you know, cause like here in the U S that's a little bit shorter days still. I mean, they're getting days are getting longer, but like for you guys, cause what season is it again now for you?

I know we go through this every time.

Barry Conrad
I want to say it. Okay. It's not, I think it's autumn slash fall. I want to say it's not spring because we talked about this last time. It's like, it's not spring. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So presumably based on where you are, not even just location because of the season, but also the latitude, like so like how far you are from the equator.

Barry Conrad
Because I know from Melanie, when I used to live in South Africa, there's a lot of Muslim population there. And one of my mom's best friends, one of our best family friends, she married into a Muslim family, and we'd go over during Ramadan so we could eat all the food at night.

But basically, the point is, as soon as the sun went down, that's when they would eat. So there wasn't a set time on the clock. It's just usually somewhere between six and eight, it would be where they can eat and drink.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So like if you lived, for example, at the polls, you would have, you know, that would come, that would drastically affect the daylight hours.

Barry Conrad
Do you think in that case, so like Norway and places like that, would they have to like maybe put a time on it then maybe like

Melanie Avalon
I don't know, like, do they adjust? I don't, I mean, how would they adjust though? Because like, isn't the rules about the light?

Barry Conrad
They'd probably never break their fast data, though. I don't know. Actually, now I want to find out.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I looked it up. Ramanan fasting can be adjusted for Muslims living in regions where daylight hours are extremely long or short, such as near the Arctic or Antarctic circles, where the sun may not set or rise for days or even weeks. Islamic scholars and councils have addressed this unique situation with practical solutions. So here are some approaches.

They might follow the nearest moderate location, so like the closest city that has a clear distinction between day and night, or follow Mecca's timetable. Hmm, that makes sense. Or follow a 24-hour clock, like you were saying, using a set number of hours. So interesting. I can't believe I never thought about this before.

Barry Conrad
That actually is interesting. Now we know, so follow near a city or, okay.

Melanie Avalon
But you know what's interesting also? So this is for like the polls.

So, but for people who there is a distinct difference between day and night, but it's like you mentioned, like Norway or something, I feel like in that situation, they're just getting more or less daytime hours, but it wouldn't be so extreme that they might do a different protocol. So basically, I mean, I don't know, but it sounds like maybe, I feel like there would be subtle differences and the length of fast based on where you live.

Barry Conrad
I agree, because if people had for the polls, like you were saying, or like Norway and stuff like that, they would have to, they'd probably be more uniformed with their like structured in their fasting. Like from this time to this time, we'll just do it because it doesn't get dark.

Whereas other people will wait. And it would probably change quite like even in the daily. Yeah, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Wow. I'm never going to look at Ramadan fasting the same way again. I'm just really surprised that I've never thought about this before, and I've been talking about this for so many years.

Barry Conrad
I do know, based on mates I've had who are Muslim and they do Ramadan, they always have no energy. It's just because you can't drink water, and that's a major thing. I think food is one thing, but being dehydrated and then having to work and things like that, that's pretty intense.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. I know people will do conscious dry fast and they, and it can have other benefits to it in general though. And that's a long time to be doing that. It's like a month.

Barry Conrad
It's a whole lot and also I wonder how people who practice Ramadan fasting, how it affects their bodies over the long term, doing that all the time, you know, because it's like this massive depletion and then like, I'm sure some of them probably, I'm guessing over eat or overdo it when they get back to eating, whereas some probably don't. But I wonder if it has any impact on their long term health, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, it's interesting.

I could see how it could be a good thing or it could be a catalyst for fasting and making good dietary choices. And then I could see how for a lot of people, it might be like, oh, the thing they are required to do one month a year. And then they're just making up for it the rest of the time, which is like 11 months not fasting and one month fasting.

Barry Conrad
Have you ever done, I know you've talked about like, you know, you raised Christian and whatnot, did you ever fast during like for religious reasons in your family? Did they ever get into that?

Melanie Avalon
not fasting. So it's interesting. So I have two memories associated. One is Lent. So that's kind of like the Christian equivalent, but you can quote fast from anything. So that Lent is people often give up something for Lent.

I don't know if I ever actually, I might have given up like candy or something at some point. I do remember though, I remember one of my friends when I was in middle school was doing a fast. It's so interesting to think how far you've come and perspective and mindset because I was much younger then. So it's a different situation. But I know she was doing like a, was it only, was it a 24 hour fast? It's probably like a 36 hour fast. I don't know. Might have been a 24 hour fast. I just remember like it was a whole thing. And that's the only memory I have about fasting related to religion that was for her church. So I don't think I did. Did you?

Barry Conrad
You know what, not without food or water, but what I do remember is like, have you heard of the Daniel fast or whatever that is?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you eat like what Daniel ate when he was in the lion's den, assuming he was there because we recently did an episode, and I know Barry listened to it, on the Mindblown podcast about biblical misconceptions. So many of those blew my mind when I learned them.

Yeah. So which ones blew your mind the most?

Barry Conrad
Well, the fact that it's the best selling book of all time, for some reason in my head, I didn't put together that it gets sold. It doesn't just come from nowhere.

So who's getting that money? A, B, B, the Jonah and the whale as well. It's actually meant to be a big fish, not a whale, technically.

Melanie Avalon
It never says whale, it says big fish, which could have been a whale, they could have been calling it that, or it could have not been a whale.

Barry Conrad
the three wise men there wasn't technically there weren't three oh yeah that was come on really

Melanie Avalon
Because because there were three gifts so that that's why we think that no no they name three gifts.

Barry Conrad
But what if there were 10 people or one person?

Melanie Avalon
Well, what if there were other gifts too? And Mary Magdalene, they never actually said she was a prostitute. I definitely thought it said that.

Barry Conrad
Sam, going back to what you said, Mel, assuming that what we're talking about, the Daniel diet, assuming he was in the lion's den and he actually ate whatever it was, like, it was a specific diet. Like, I've done that for a week and that's meant to be this hardcore thing, which is so easy to do now, but I thought that was, like, so meaningful at the time. Like, yay, I'm doing something for God, you know, eating this.

Melanie Avalon
It's like a, it's like a vegan fast, right? Like, isn't it very like vegetables and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I, I don't do that. I'm familiar with it though. I did not, I did not do it though. There you go.

Very interesting. Okay. Well, thank you for finding the study. Take away fasting for athletic performance. Yes. It's support. So it helps muscle growth, helps actual performance, body composition. Just make sure you're, you know, drinking, getting your electrolytes, sleeping. Yes. Really important. Shall we jump into some questions for today?

Barry Conrad
We should. Let's do it.

So, Carolina from Facebook, she asks, why am I feeling so cold when I extend my fast? I normally eat three meals in an eight hour window, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. every day. I stay under 50 grams of carbs and prioritize protein and fat. I'm very active every day. Resistance training, five days per week. Walk 13K steps every day. No need to lose weight. I'm in calorie maintenance. My goal is body re-composition. I like the idea of having one 800 calorie meal on Mondays for health reasons and digestive rest. But when I fast to delay my breakfast, I'm literally freezing. I have to have a full blast heater on. Is this normal? Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. So I love this question. And what could possibly be going on here?

I did some research and so people's core body temperature can vary pretty individually. And there tends to be, there's this concept of a human thrifty phenotype. I'm not necessarily saying that I know that Carolina, that this is the case for you. But that said, basically, they've done studies on people's energy expenditures, like how much energy and heat their body is producing and how that relates to core body temperature. And it seems that some people have a thrifty phenotype. And when they have that, their core body temperature drops more while fasting compared to people who aren't that phenotype. And then on the flip side, that same phenotype where they get colder while fasting, they also don't get as hot when overeating. And what's actually going on with the neurotransmitters and hormones is that people who have this thrifty phenotype, they basically don't release as much adrenaline and epinephrine during the fast. So it could be genetic. It could be completely normal that, yes, for you when you fast, your body just gets colder. It doesn't try to, or it more actively tries to preserve fat in the fasted state. That's one option. And I think that applies to a lot of people. Another thing is you could be over fasting or overdoing it. And this is just a signal to your body that it's too much. A benefit, kind of like a good thing about this is lower core body temperature in general does correlate to longevity. So calorie restriction, it has been the one thing consistently shown to promote longevity in all species. It also correlates to lower body temperature and lower body temperature tends to correlate to longevity. So not that it's like a great thing to be really cold feeling, but if you are cold, it might be more beneficial for longevity. So that's an upside. Something you could do. So there's some options here. There are some foods that you can eat. And I have found personally that they are very thermogenic and they actually keep me warm. If you've tried adding MCT oil to your food, that is so thermogenic. For me, it makes me really hot. So you might find that adding that to your meals can help you fast longer. If being too cold is impeding you from fasting, you might find, can find that adding MCT oil to your meals will keep your body temperature warmer. You also might want to try doing not the whole low carb diet thing and fasting, you know, doing the fasting hours that you want, but having carbs in your eating window. A lot of people when they do like a ketogenic diet or a low carb diet, they get cold from that diet. So yeah, that's definitely an option to play around with is try having more carbs in your diet. If you're worried about fat gain and weight gain and anything like that, I really want to encourage people that when you're eating whole foods, adding back in carbs after being low carb, as long as you don't also keep all the fats, you actually might find that you actually lose weight from that or see beneficial effects and energy,

Melanie Avalon
body composition, warmth, all the things. So that's something you could try is make a switcheroo and do a more higher carb, lower fat approach.

Yeah, but basically it comes down to yes, it is normal to get cold while fasting could be a genetic phenotype and that's just the way it is and not something you can change or it could be that you're over fasting either way, adding in, you know, carbs or MCT oil. Also, you can add in lots of like spices to your food. Those can have a heat, a heating effect. Actually, I might be a little bit wary about the spices because some people actually eat, add those to their meals because it does increase the temperature, but then they have a response to it where they're bought, the body adapts to cooling. It's kind of like how in hot cultures, they'll eat spicy food to stay cooler. So actually, maybe don't listen to me on that. I do know with the MCT oil though that, I mean, that makes me really, really warm. So what are your thoughts, Barry? And have you ever experimented with MCT oil?

Barry Conrad
I actually have not experimented with MCT oil in my food yet. Do you think it's something that I should experiment with?

Melanie Avalon
Just if, just, I mean, no, just if you want, just if you want, the reason I don't like it is how hot it makes me, honestly.

But it's basically a, especially if you get the C8 or C10 version, which is the most easily, like ketogenic, easily used fat compared to the more full spectrum. If you get just the C8 version, but basically it is a fat that kind of functions more like a carb because it is instantly shuttled to the liver, used for energy. It doesn't easily get stored as fat and it's very, it easily becomes ketones. It's very metabolism stroking, making you, you know, warm and thermogenic and all that. Yeah, it's an interesting food.

Barry Conrad
I have had some in my coffee.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so you've had it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I haven't experienced how it feels putting it with my food. Yeah, in general, I'd get pretty hot when I eat, which is kind of frustrating because maybe I'm just eating so intensely, but I get really hot.

What I thought, I mean, you hit everything so amazingly, Mel. The only thing that did cross my mind was when you said that maybe she isn't eating enough carbs, like the fact that, Carolina, you're training five times a week, 13,000 steps a day, like your body sounds like it's already efficient, and there's not a whole lot of extra body fat there for insulation, so you're probably going to feel that chill more. That's the only thing that I thought, which you mentioned. So maybe a tweak, having some more carbs in there. I don't actually get cold when, I don't really get cold when I fast, but you experience that, Mel, called the cold fasting effect.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. When I was low carb, I was much colder. Now, honestly, it really depends on the meal I had for my one meal a day. It is, it's kind of shocking how much it affects me.

So if I have, it kind of goes back to like the, the warming and the cooling foods, especially in like traditional Chinese medicine or Ayurvedic, I actually really find that that applies to me. So if I have a meal of, you know, just lean fish for my protein, I'll be colder the next day compared to if I have a meal with lots of like chicken or steak. Even if I eat the same amount of actual protein, the, the warming proteins really keep me warmer the next day and the colder ones I'm colder the next day.

Barry Conrad
That's really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
in the past I've done where I would just have, like I wouldn't have protein for like a no protein day. And that would make me really cold the next day.

Yeah, the foods you're eating can really, really affect you. But if I had that MCT oil, yeah. Actually, one of the reasons I kind of dread summer is because I feel like I have less freedom in what I can eat because I really don't like being hot. And so I feel like in the summer I have to be more cognizant of meal choices that won't make me really like too hot the next day.

Why are you laughing?

Barry Conrad
I've just never heard of someone say, like, I've never experienced, like, okay, the food that I ate yesterday, this is going to make me feel hot tomorrow, or it's going to make me feel colder tomorrow. That's amazing.

I've never thought of it in that way or experienced that, but maybe now that you've mentioned this, maybe I should try to pay attention to, like, have an experiment and see if I do feel different.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So, and it will especially, so, so some comments, um, it's a little bit different. Like it is the next day for me, but I eat my meal really late. And then, so the next day isn't even necessarily that long into the fast because I think I eat and I go to bed. But all of that said, because I'm so like, I, I'm so conscious and eat within a certain collection of foods. That's pretty similar.

Like I, I, I always crave a certain protein. So basically it's a chicken night or it's just a fish night or it's a steak night. So it's really easy for me to experiment and notice. It's yeah, it's easier for me to notice. So I'd be really curious if you do notice a difference, but you might always have, do you pretty much always have like chicken or steak or.

Barry Conrad
I have a lot of I have a lot of ground beef, steak, chicken, but oftentimes, like, I'll combine like how you said you like to have you crave one type of protein. I'll have smoked salmon to start, for example, or chicken wings to start, and then I'll also have beef. So I don't I often like combine protein. It's never just one.

So that's probably why I can't really I can't really notice because I'm always combining.

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's interesting is I always combine because I always have my scallops. So there's always a fish there, but then sometimes I have just chicken or steak. I'd be curious. Okay. So maybe notice if you have, if there's ever a day that you only eat seafood, see if you notice that you're not as hot.

Okay. There's this book. Okay. If, if friends are interested in this, oh my goodness, I love this book. It's very famous in the world of traditional Chinese medicine. It's called healing with whole foods. It is the, oh, with more than 600,000 copies sold. Okay. It is the biggest Bible of information about every food seen through the lens of traditional Chinese medicine and like yin yang balance. And so it has like, it literally has every food ever. It's crazy. It's so big. It's heavy. You could use it as a weight at the gym and each food, it'll say like, is this warming or cooling? And like, what, like, what parts of your bot, like what organs does it benefit? I love this book. Mine's like all, like all marked up with like notes and highlighters and stickies and that's a great book.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds interesting. I definitely want to dive more into this because I know when I have spices, I get hotter, spicier foods, but that seems obvious.

But I want to try this fish-only day, chicken-only day, and see if it impacts how I feel.

Melanie Avalon
Here's something important, and I kind of said it earlier, but to clarify about the spices. So this is just me thinking it through in real time. When you eat a lot of protein or meat, A, protein is the most thermogenic macronutrient. And what that means is about 30% of the calories just get burned off as heat by processing the protein.

But the long-term effects of eating that protein, it's going to actually keep you warm and keep giving you heat because it's like a slow digestion process, it's thermogenic, et cetera, compared to spices. Where spices are non-caloric, they're not even providing, I mean, what, they might have like a calorie, but they're barely providing any calories, so they're not having a thermogenic effect from that perspective, but they can be very, you know, heating, like create the feeling of heat. But I think that ends up having the opposite effect, like I was saying, where your body gets good at cooling yourself down. So the longer-term effects of the spices might actually make your body cooler in the future, like not at the moment of eating it, because at the moment of eating it, eating either of these things, you're going to be probably feeling warm, but like the long-term effects, like eating a high protein meal is going to make you warmer later, but eating hot spices might make you cooler later.

Barry Conrad
There you go. Carolina, we hope that you- we hope that helped. That was- Melanie said it all. That was amazing.

Also, Melanie, I had to- you're like, why are you laughing? What do you say? I'm gonna be hotter tomorrow or cooler tomorrow. There was just- I've just never heard that. That's why I was laughing. It wasn't- yeah.

Melanie Avalon
You're going to start notice, you're going to notice.

Barry Conrad
And, yeah, you don't like somewhere. I know that. You don't like being hot.

Melanie Avalon
No, you know what's funny is within the past, I think a couple days, three, maybe three, I think three different, I got emails about three different concerts, all of which I would like to go to. They're all in ampli theaters outside in the middle of the summer in Georgia.

I don't understand who, why do people enjoy this? I'm so confused. Somebody please explain to me.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, a lot of people love to be hot and they love summer. Like, I'm sure you know that these people, like a lot of people like that.

Melanie Avalon
It's like so mind blowing to me, it's so crazy. And so I get these, I'm like, oh, I want to go to Mumford and Sons or I want to go to Kesha, but it's like in the summer outside.

Barry Conrad
Okay, but hold on, what if, because I'm guessing the show is like at night, so it would probably cool down.

Melanie Avalon
It doesn't matter. I was Googling. I was like, what time is it going to be?

I was like, what temperature is it going to be at seven o'clock in August in Georgia? And it could, it can literally still be like 80 degrees. I was like, I can't, this is ridiculous.

Barry Conrad
That's not even that hard. That's like 26 degrees Celsius. That's like the limit for me.

Melanie Avalon
Did you look up the right number? That is hot. That's too hot to be like, am I get up? Like my concert get up? I cannot.

Barry Conrad
What if you brought like an umbrella? That might sound intense, but a lot of people have umbrellas for the sun.

Melanie Avalon
it's already covered. It's like covered amphitheaters.

Barry Conrad
That's even better. You could do it. Like, why, why don't I try? Go, go.

Melanie Avalon
in another life. Why don't they do these in the winter outside? That's when I'm there. I'd show up for that.

Barry Conrad
Because you know what? In the winter, no singer, singers inside baseball want to sing in the cold. It's just the worst for your voice.

Melanie Avalon
I'd be there. Okay. Then how about the fall?

Barry Conrad
If there's humidity, it's easier to sing in. But again, what's good for you, the singers is not good for necessarily some audience members, aka Melanie Evelon.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's good for everybody? What? Singing inside.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
solves all the problems.

Barry Conrad
What it's so funny that you said you googled what temperature it could be.

Melanie Avalon
I did. I was, I really wanted to buy these tickets. And I was like, I just can't. And then what if it's raining?

Barry Conrad
You couldn't do it? Nope.

What would happen? Okay. So if you were there and it started raining, what would, how, what would go through your mind? Would you just hate that experience or would you deal with it?

Melanie Avalon
No, I would I would I mean, and it's covered so but it's just my hair would not be nice. You know what? I really love climate control. I'm just it's so great like inside climate control.

Barry Conrad
Have you, Tangent, but have you watched a show called Paradise? What happens?

Melanie Avalon
Is it not paradise? Is it in paradise, but it's not paradise?

Barry Conrad
Basically what you're saying makes me think of the show because long story short, these people have to get on this these flights and go to this like created manufactured world because there's going to be a catastrophe out in the real world. And the president takes like, I don't know, 10,000 people to this built world. And like it's everything's controlled like this, the weather and everything. So it made me think of that.

So if you could control, it's, it's basically in a mountain, they've created this world that looks exactly like normal city, but it's not. There's no sky, but people think there's a sky. It's all controlled. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I know this is so contrary to like our modern climate controlled everything is not good for us hermetically like we're not exposed to stressors and things like that but at the same time that's why I keep my air very cold inside I do sauna I do cryotherapy so I'm like it's like say it's like do as I I don't know.

Barry Conrad
Do as I say and as I do.

Melanie Avalon
But also, I mean, you can do it as I do. If you do it as I do, make sure you do all the other things too. Make sure you combat. One thing we don't want is to just exist in the perfect temperature all the time. That's not good for us.

Yeah, it's not good. We need those extreme temperatures and such. I just don't want the extreme temperatures while I'm seeing abandoned, singing and dressed up. That's why I don't want the extreme temperatures. I want it when I'm in a sauna, not singing or not dancing and such.

Barry Conrad
Okay. So if you had to choose between one of those concerts that you might, you're on the fence about maybe booking, which one will you go?

Melanie Avalon
I really wanted to go to Mumford and Sons because my sister's going and it would be a whole thing. Do it, do it, do it, do it.

Avril Lavigne, Katy Perry, oh, I think Katy Perry might be indoors, I don't know. Shall we break our fast, reverbially?

Barry Conrad
Let's break it proverbially. What do you got for us, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
So the restaurant I'm picking for today's restaurant, and the purpose of this segment of the show is because what, like we've been talking about, this whole conversation, what you eat and having the eating period is actually very, very important with your fasting because you get a lot of benefits from the fasting and you also need the eating period to nourish your body, grow that muscle, all the things. So I like picking restaurants from Disney World.

I'm picking this one today in honor of your story, Barry, that you posted, was it yesterday when the guy in the cab did not know about he had never been to a Mexican restaurant?

Barry Conrad
That's so funny, Melanie. Yeah, listen, I was to give you some intel, so I was basically in an Uber to a Mexican restaurant, and the Uber driver was like, hey, brother, where are you going to eat?

I'm like, having Mexican food. And then I started listening to the radio, just chilling out, and he just goes randomly. I never tried Mexican before, so it was really funny and random.

Melanie Avalon
What's so funny about this video is yes, Barry is just like selfie videoing himself singing in the car. Perfect timing. And then when he says that like the timing of it when he said it at the end, I was just dying life. I literally watched it five times in a row.

I thought it was so funny. The timing and then it just like cuts off. So I am picking the Mexican restaurant at the Epcot pavilion in Disney World. So remember how I've been telling you about the Epcot pavilion where there's all the different countries and each country has a restaurant and such. So the Mexican restaurant is called San, I probably am saying it wrong, San Angel N. It's probably the Mexican pronunciation, but San Angel N restaurante is so okay. Do you see the picture that came up?

Barry Conrad
I do. Oh, whoa, that that's beautiful. That's really.

Melanie Avalon
And if you go to the picture where you can see like the entrance, so there's water down there because there's actually a boat ride that explores the world of Mexico, as they say in it, Mexico, or I guess I guess and it's stunning. It's beautiful.

There's like Aztec structures in the background and like it's evening. It's very, very dark in there, very dark. It's really authentic Mexican food. My dad loves Mexican food. So we used to always go here. I think this is probably one of his favorite restaurants in Disney.

Yeah. So the setting is the base of 17th century Mayan ruins, a hacienda.

Barry Conrad
It looks like a set, like a film set. It's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
It does. It does look like a film set. Yeah, but it's just, it's so, I don't know. I love it.

The vibe. It's just amazing. Oh, and then if you like zoom out, which I don't think there's pictures of it here. There's not pictures. If you could see like outside of this restaurant, which is still inside, it's like, it's like a, um, it's set up like, uh, like being outdoors at this evening, Mexican. There's like little carts and like stores and it's like being outdoors. It's so, it's really pretty and there's fountains and.

Barry Conrad
Sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to the dinner menu right now, checking it out. What have you got? I think I'm going to struggle.

Melanie Avalon
with this one a little bit actually no maybe

Barry Conrad
I love Mexican food by the way, haven't mentioned that to you before, I actually love it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean, I, yes, I think so. I'm pretty sure I think I would have, is it your, what's your favorite? Is it your favorite genre of food?

Barry Conrad
That's that this is really hard. It's really tough.

I did say what my final meal ever would be, but I think It's hard to just choose a genre because I just yeah, I love mexican love greek Love japanese. Oh, yeah I could be here all day, but I do love mexican. Do you have a favorite johner?

Melanie Avalon
Probably New American.

Barry Conrad
What would that be?

Melanie Avalon
I feel like I just know whenever I go to a new American restaurant, it's what I like. It's like steak and fish dishes and new American. It's a fusion. Oh, okay. I've never defined it, but I just know I really like it.

It's modern American cuisine or contemporary American cuisine, a wave of modernized cooking, predominantly served at upscale fine dining restaurants in the United States originating in the 1980s. It assimilates flavors from the melting pot of traditional American cooking techniques.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Sounds good. So it's, I'm not sure if that defined it enough, but like seasonal, okay. It's often like fresh local seasonal ingredients, focus on creative and lighter dishes, even though I like steak and such. Yeah, I think that's what I like about it.

It's often like seasonal and local, and there's always a lot of like protein options and it's like a steakhouse, but just American modernized.

Barry Conrad
Okay. Well, that tracks though, because you have a lot of stake and yeah, that makes sense from what you post.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so what would you get appetizer wise?

Barry Conrad
There's a few good ones here. There's a couple of things. Definitely guacamole. Love my guacamole.

That's gotta happen. So having some guac, I'm gonna also get the chilaquillas, which is the choice of shaved ribeye or chipotle chicken tortilla chips tossed in ranchera salsa, topped with coca cheese, crema, mexicana, and onions.

So that sounds delicious. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
I might taste the guacamole. Do they not have a shrimp cocktail? Is that not a?

Barry Conrad
No. No, it's not.

Melanie Avalon
I thought ceviche. I thought ceviche was a Mexican thing. Is it not?

Barry Conrad
I don't think it's, I don't think it's as such, but I do think a lot of modern Mexican, I think commercial Mexican food like here has a lot of kingfish and ceviche, but if this is meant to be legit, maybe it's not, I'm not too sure. And we should say the guacamole is topped with mango and toasted pumpkin seeds, served with chicharrones and salsa Valentina.

I'm just guessing that's how it's pronounced, but I'm just going with it.

Melanie Avalon
You I think it yeah I think it sounds good what you said okay it does occur in mexico.

Barry Conrad
Okay, okurr is a lie.

Melanie Avalon
Hello, Chris. Yeah. So the marinade in Mexico tends to feature tomatoes. Might have tomatoes, avocados, and tomato sauce with it.

Well, they don't have it here, so. I think I'll save my appetite for the entree. Yeah? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Okay, you go first.

Melanie Avalon
carne asada.

Barry Conrad
And you get that.

Melanie Avalon
served rare. I was debating between that and the chicken. I might get both.

Okay, the carne asada New York strip with Chipotle butter served with a tamal de raha topped with red and green salsas with a corn rice medley. So everything can just be on the side and have the carne asada you know rare by itself and then maybe also the polo a la raha raja raha grilled chicken breasts over roasted potatoes with onions poblano peppers corn and a poblano cream sauce topped with queso fresco again everything just on the side if possible

Barry Conrad
Could I have your potatoes if you're not going to eat them? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh, they also have a catch of the day. So it might depend what the fish is.

Barry Conrad
What if it's trout?

Melanie Avalon
I don't think they have, do they have trout in Mexico?

Barry Conrad
Yes, you know, as I was saying that I was like, is this not even a fish that they have there?

Melanie Avalon
The takeaway, I'm learning so much about the world, the takeaway on the shows that, uh, yeah, if they had trout, I would have that. I'm not sure if trout is there.

Barry Conrad
It says red snapper and Parago Rojo, a significant presence in traditional Mexican, includes a red snapper.

Melanie Avalon
red snapper yeah that's what's coming up a lot here yeah so i'll probably stick with the chicken and the steak how about you

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go for the enchiladas de polo, which is corn tortillas filled with chipotle chicken, covered with ranchera salsa, crema mexicana, cocha cheese, and crispy onion straws atop beans, served with plantains. Delicious.

Topped with crema, mexicana, and cocha cheese. And I'm also going to get the tacos because that comes with lava taco. And that comes with shaved ribeye, a choice of shaved ribeye or grilled chicken. I'm going to go for the ribeye.

Poblano and red peppers, onions, bacon, and Monterey Jack cheese, served with corn tortillas and plantains. Again, topped with crema, mexicana, and cocha. I want to see what their topping tastes like. It's a common additive on this menu.

Melanie Avalon
That sounds very adventurous.

Barry Conrad
Sounds very me.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And you know what you can get with it? What? Did you see at the bottom they have create your own margarita flight? Oh.

Barry Conrad
What? I haven't got that far yet. That's happening.

Melanie Avalon
They have a lot of drinks, but I feel like you can choose three. Is that what you would get? Would you get that?

Barry Conrad
I would absolutely, 800% get that and create my own Margarita flight. I will do. Okay. It says three LDR blood, orange, the cucumber classica, or the wild one. I'll get one. What's in the wild?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you go look at the I see you look at it. Oh, I get you. I'm following now you pick from the

Barry Conrad
menu. This is the Classica, I feel like that's the classic, just standard. I want something spicy.

Oh, there we go, Aldiablo, that's got a cucumber jalapeno sauce, so that's going to be spicy. I'll do that one. I'll do the wild one, which is Centinella blanco tequila, combia, orange, liqueur, ginger rum, corn, passion fruit, cordial, lime juice, dos jombre, mezcal, grenadine, and hibiscus salt rim. And then one more, I'll go the Classica, just a classic as well.

Melanie Avalon
Like a nice palette cleanser.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, to end with, I should say. What drinks would you consume? Is there a wine list there?

Melanie Avalon
They don't even have a wine list, so this might be a BYOB situation.

Barry Conrad
and sneak in a little thing.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder, cause in Disney, I would have to sneak it into the park, but once it's in the park, I wonder if you can just bring in your own stuff because Disney, you can, you know, you can, you don't have to, you can drink, you can carry drinks around outside and such. Cause it's like all inside, I'm not all in, you know, it's like you're inside of a establishment type thing.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, right. That's pretty good if they do that because it's not really in Australia. It's not really It's not a thing where you can carry walk around with alcoholic drinks

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I think I'm pretty sure you can because there's booths everywhere. I mean, yeah, yeah, you have to be able to because there's like there's like walk up booths everywhere with drinks.

So would you get a dessert?

Barry Conrad
I don't know why I keep trying my luck because I know the answer of it. I just think maybe today she'll say, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
someday. I really applaud your perseverance. I think it's endearing.

Barry Conrad
Desserts I would get a couple things the brown sundaes catching my eye at first so that's a fudge brownie soda dulce de leche ice cream yum and topped with kajita sauce can I have that and then I have to have a. Yeah just maybe just the seasonal mexican flavored sorbet which is me of probably saying that incorrectly but sundae and some so.

Melanie Avalon
I can, I can answer for what I would get if I, if I ate desserts, I would get the, probably the chaseless cake. I love that whole concept.

Yeah. Do you like it? Or does it bother you? It bothers some people, like the soaked cake situation, like the milk soaked cake.

Barry Conrad
I actually made a cake, a tres leches cake with my mom a couple of years ago during Christmas. It was pretty good actually.

It was a nightmare to make though, it was a headache because the soaking and it took way longer than we thought so we were up all night doing it but it tasted pretty good. Tasted pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
that story no that was like a that was like a good that was a good sound sorry if it sounded not good i looked up i found a video of them making a trace i don't know how you say it trace leches funfetti cake once

Barry Conrad
How does I'm trying to picture how that would even look because it's

Melanie Avalon
confetti cake is the cake, and then drown it.

Barry Conrad
trying to milk one day one day you'll try it again maybe

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm getting the non-existent shrimp ceviche as my dessert that they don't have.

Barry Conrad
Imagine Melanie asking the server, could this shift just get me some?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because is shrimp anywhere else on this menu?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so. I don't think so as well. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, no, it is. There's chipotle pepper and garlic sauteed shrimp in the Camerons a la Diablo. So shrimp is in the house. I feel like, can I get some shrimp?

Barry Conrad
What if they say, sorry, man, we can't, you know, it's kind of packaged with other ingredients. We can't do it separately.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Then I, then I'm just, I just, I just accept. I just give up.

Barry Conrad
Except defeat in this case you did well you chose this restaurant for my benefit, which I appreciate

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And I mean, I love the vibe. I would actually love to go here. The point is you can make any restaurant work, I think.

Yep. I thought, I thought, I don't actually, for me, I could not make a vegan restaurant work. That's the only thing I could not make work for me.

I could go. I just wouldn't, there wouldn't be anything to eat. That's okay, though.

Barry Conrad
I mean, it just wouldn't be anything good or fun, but I mean, there's vegetables and stuff, right?

Melanie Avalon
No, like, because I wouldn't. So if I'm like having my meal, like I need.

Barry Conrad
food. He sounded very, like, very passionate just then.

Melanie Avalon
So like, basically, I wouldn't want to just eat vegetables, it would just make me hungry and so I would just at a vegan restaurant, I would just rather, I'm totally down to go, I would just, I'm going for my sister's graduation, I would just rather not eat there, I sound obnoxious, I'm not obnoxious, I promise.

Barry Conrad
No, you're not obnoxious. You just, you don't want to be like, like angry and angry if you can't eat the things that you know that you need, right?

Melanie Avalon
You nailed it. Like I would just be, yeah, it would just make me more hungry. So yeah, okay. Well, we should definitely go here.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm about it. I love Mexican food so much. I'm so down for that.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Okay, well, this is super fun. Friends, thank you so much for listening.

If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. And these show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 425. They will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
No, everybody have an amazing rest of your day. Thank you for tuning in and we'll catch you next time. See you, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
I'll talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week.



Jun 02

Episode 424 – Does Breakfast Increase Hunger, Tips For Fasting At Work, Barry’s New Skincare Line, Dopamine And Addiction, Social Fasting Hacks, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 424 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

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Book: Good Stress

STUDIES:

Six Weeks of Morning Fasting Causes Little Adaptation of Metabolic or Appetite Responses to Feeding in Adults with Obesity

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)



Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 423 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 423 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. And Barry, congratulations on successfully moving apartments.

Barry Conrad
Hey, everyone. Hey, Mel. Yes, I moved places yesterday. It was over the last couple of days. And I was saying before, I feel so tired.

I don't get why because, like, when I go to the gym, for example, like, where I feel like I'm pushing a whole lot of weight, I definitely don't feel like this afterwards. Like, Mel, is it like an emotional weight? Like, what's the why am I so exhausted? I don't get it.

Melanie Avalon
It's so interesting you say that I have the exact same thought whenever I move. I think about what you just said. I'm like, this isn't like, yes, I'm moving a lot. Yes, I'm picking things up, but it's not, you know, it's not climbing Mount Everest and it's not like a workout at the gym. Well, it is a little bit, I think it's, I think it's the emotional part. I really do.

Like, it's just the mental and the psychological aspect of it. And you have so much that you have to get accomplished, like by a deadline, you have to get all your stuff from point A to point B. It's a moment of uncertainty. And we know our brains don't like uncertainty. They register that as a threat. So it's like you're in a stress threat state while also physically moving a lot of stuff, so very true.

Barry Conrad
training. It's training and I feel like like you're right. I think processing all of that at the same time and also kind of maybe grieving in a way like that sounds deep, but you've been in a place for a while. It's like, I'm used to this.

I'm used to that. Now I'm saying goodbye to it really quickly. While the movers are here, packing things up and it's kind of like a low key traumatic kind of experience and also just annoying because moving sucks. But it's also exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I'm pretty sure it's high on the list of top 10 most stressful life events. I'm pretty sure. Let's see. Okay. Oh, maybe not. I thought it was higher up.

Okay. I could have sworn moving was on the list. What's the top 10? Okay. Yeah. This is the official list. It's number one. This is the Holmes Ray stress scale first developed in 1967 and it's a scale of life stressors. What do you think number one is?

Barry Conrad
Your house burning down, is that on there? Like you're losing your home?

Melanie Avalon
No, actually, I'm just confused because I could have sworn moving was like way up there.

Barry Conrad
What about surgeons performing really intense operations? That's a pretty high stress environment.

Melanie Avalon
The closest to that is number six, which is not the same thing, but it's major. Well, yeah, major personal injury or illness is number six.

What's number one? I'm curious. Number one. Number nine is funny. So number one is death of a spouse.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, for sure. That's definitely the number one. I should have said that straight away, losing somebody that you love.

Melanie Avalon
Do you want to guess number two and three because they're similar and they involve relationships?

Barry Conrad
Okay, divorce.

Melanie Avalon
Yes that's number two.

Barry Conrad
And number three, breakups, well, that's the same thing.

Melanie Avalon
No, yeah, similar. What's a breakup where you're breaking up but you're still together? Separation. Yes, marital separation, number three.

Barry Conrad
Wow, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so relationships cause a lot of stress is my takeaway. The top three all involve the top three all involve the significant other. I shouldn't laugh about the death one.

Barry Conrad
So you're running from all things relationships based on this, this little thing, this survey.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just saying and oh wait, we'll wait to get to number nine. Should I tell you what number nine was?

Tell me. Number nine is marital reconciliation. Really? Yeah. You just can't win. You just cannot win. Oh man. For, unless you want to guess any of the other ones.

Barry Conrad
No, it's all right, it's all right.

Melanie Avalon
So, four is being incarcerated. Wow. Interesting, though, that it's more stressful to get divorced than to be put in jail.

Barry Conrad
There's reason to laugh, but it's just funny. It's just that we're not laughing at anyone.

Melanie Avalon
Humor helps us get through the stress of life, I think. Humor and kindness.

Number five is death of a close family member. Yeah, that's sad and stressful. Six was the injury and illness. Oh, seven. What? Seven, marriage. Oh, my God.

Barry Conrad
Oh my god, it's all relationships.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Number eight, being fired or laid off from work. And 10 is retirement.

So I was wrong, moving is not on there, but I would put it on there. My scale, well, my scale, I can take off half of those. So I'll, what would you make your scale? What would your top three be on your scale?

Barry Conrad
Oh my God. I think, okay, losing a spouse, for sure. I would say losing a spouse, my second guess was going to be losing a family member. And then the third, I would say maybe divorce, because I think that's pretty traumatic, because it's stressful based on what I know of friends who have had divorces and stuff.

But definitely family would be way up there for me, losing family.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like for my skill, I need to make like a relationship scale and then a non-relationship skill because then I can do a more accurate skill for my life because if I'm not getting married that gets rid of half of these. So I would say death of a family member and then I think I think I would say what you said like your house burning down, that would be horrible.

And then for me, I think moving. Actually being put in jail would be a lot to deal with.

Barry Conrad
of course it would be but also Mel I was I listened to that episode of the the mind-blowing podcast you know the one you were saying about the decluttering I listened to that like while preparing for like packing things up so I had it on like and I was packing stuff up while listening to you talk and something that you said stuck with me it was the the 80-20 rule like the Pareto principle like how we like in context of belongings how we use 20% of our things 80% of the time I really think that's true

Melanie Avalon
I, I mean, looking around, I mean, it might be like for me, I feel like I use like 10% of my stuff, 90% of the time, honestly.

Barry Conrad
It's because like the same rotation of clothes, shoes, like gadgets, whatever it is, like, I feel like whatever you pack with you to go on trips and stuff, that's kind of like what you use most of the time. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think we talked about this last week when you moved all your stuff. Did you get rid of stuff?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I did. I sold stuff. I actually sold like tables, sold like my bed and the bed frame and a coffee machine. Yeah, I actually did pretty good in like a week. I sold all that stuff. So I did it.

Melanie Avalon
Did you get rid of anything that you were inspired to get rid of by listening to that episode?

Barry Conrad
Actually, yeah, because now I have boxes of stuff that I even like I thought that I needed and I'm going to get rid of that as well now. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Nice.

Barry Conrad
Minimalist life.

Melanie Avalon
Did fasting help with your move?

Barry Conrad
It actually did. I made sure I didn't eat or break my fastened or I finished packing everything. I just got into this zone, like this intense zone and just went under a packing rampage. And then at the very end, after that mental clarity and exertion, had a whole lot of food, wine chilled out.

It was the best.

Melanie Avalon
That was always how I approached moving, I would, you know, if I had multiple days, I would, I would not let myself, I would not eat until I was like done with that day's, you know, work of moving stuff.

Barry Conrad
When you when you get into your new place, for example, do you wait like because you're so tired like to get in there, the boxes and stuff are still there and you chill first, or do you just straight away get it all unpacked and then chill?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So listeners, I'm glad you brought this up because you said you unpacked everything.

It takes me like three weeks to... I'm not kidding. When you said like you unpacked everything that day, I was like... I did. Everything? Yeah, because there's so many boxes and so much stuff. And then I like to, I feel so... Literally, I get dopamine hits just thinking about it. I get so excited to unpack the stuff and like put it in its proper place. Oh, it feels so good. Feels so good. So I savor it and I do it over a couple weeks. Yes, weeks.

Barry Conrad
but also i don't know if i believe that because you know i also heard you say you know you have the thing where you put you throw something away get rid of something like one thing a day and you have a stickers and stuff so how much stuff do you have.

Melanie Avalon
I don't have, I'm like a normal apartment.

Barry Conrad
but you just want to take your time unpacking it. I get it. I get what you're saying.

Melanie Avalon
And and okay, okay, here's the other thing. Here is the other thing. I've slowly been like when we moved out of our childhood ish house. A couple years ago, we had to go through everything. That was a lot.

And I kept a lot of stuff from that like I got rid of a ton of stuff but I kept a lot of stuff. And I have a storage unit here. So I have I basically, I am proud to say that I everything from my life that I have kept I now have with me, like in my apartment or my or my storage unit, rather than it being like all different places like there at one point. And so at one point, I had stuff in my childhood home, I had stuff in a storage unit in LA, I was like living here, like I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't everything's not in one place. But I can say now confidently that everything is either in my apartment or in a storage unit. And it's not that much. I don't think

Barry Conrad
That's pretty impressive to have everything that I get I get that feeling of disarray cuz I I'm in that previous position right now where I have some in like an older house still in boxes which I need to I need to consolidate that for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's yeah, it's a lot so

Barry Conrad
Anyway, what about you, other than my moving debacles?

Melanie Avalon
This, this will have happened quite a while ago, but finally I've mentioned it, I think every single episode, the past few episodes. So apologies for that.

But I'm finally launching my EMF blocking product line on Friday, this hour Friday. Awesome. So I'm very excited about that.

This will be my first non supplement physical product, just as a brief recap for listeners, EMFs, we are way overexposed to them today. We were not exposed to them in this way in the past. And I actually just re interviewed our blank, my business partner, and revisited all the science of it. And it does not look good for how they affect our health.

And I didn't know this. I didn't know EMF sensitivity is actually a medical diagnosis. Like there's codes for it. Really? Yeah. I did not know that. That's exciting. It's exciting to know that the medical community is taking it seriously.

They are classified by the IARC as a group to be carcinogen and you can reduce your exposure by not using wifi. If you can not using Bluetooth as much as you can, not holding your phone up to your head, which the iPhone actually suggests that you use speakerphone in the legal section of the iPhone. And so I have created EMF free headphones because even normal headphones can conduct their digital so they can conduct EMFs into your brain. So mine are completely free of that. So listeners, they will be out by the time this comes out. So you can go to Avalon X EMF dot us and use the code Melanie Avalon to get 10% off.

And that code will also work for 10% off site wide because what happens when you go to that, that website, it's my website, but then you'll be directed to my partner shield your body, their website. And so that code will work on my products and all of their products as well. And if listeners would like to get all the updates on those products and future launches and sales and specials and all the things, you can go to Melanie Avalon.com slash EMF email list. Okay. Yes, I'm excited.

Barry Conrad
Congratulations, Melanie. That's amazing.

That's honestly so incredible. And the fact that I love that you said it was like a medical diagnosis and you you're kind of ahead of the curve because I haven't heard of anyone else doing this in this way. So that's amazing. That's awesome. Seriously.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much. And also shout out to my partner, our blank is his name. And he owns shield your body. They also make emf blocking products. And he's just so knowledgeable on this topic. I really respect him.

And he's been incredible to work with creating the products together. So shout out to him. And thank you for the kind words means a lot coming from you.

Barry Conrad
Very exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, shall we jump into some fasting related things for today?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump right on in.

Melanie Avalon
Let's do it. Also, wait, before we do that, really quick question. So are you, so when you sent me that message about being done and unpacked and everything in one day, which I'm still, I want a picture of your apartment. I just need to see this.

But in any case, I listened to that and I was like, like, is he gonna be okay to record? But look at you, you're here. Are you really tired? Are you good?

Barry Conrad
I'm actually fine like I'm good like my back is a little bit janky I think probably lifting stuff but that's fine that's just normal but I feel really good I had a really good sleep and I'm gonna hit the gym after the show I mean after we record so I feel good.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. So do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study to start us off with and the study I'm bringing today is called the influence of ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting on the change of body fat rate. This was done by Pu Yuan Yu from the College of Biological and Agricultural Engineering at Jilin University in China. I know it sounds like a pretty clinical title, but the findings are really, really exciting.

It's sort of about something a lot of us are already curious about, about how effective is IF alone and how does it stack up against keto and what happens when you combine the two. This was a 12-week randomized control trial, which is sort of like the gold standard when it comes to research. So they took 120 overweight or obese participants and they split them into four groups. So one stayed on their normal diet, aka the control group, one went full keto, one practiced intermittent fasting, and the last group did both keto and intermittent fasting together. So Mel, see if you can rank those four groups for me of who had the most change or none at all. Four being no change, one being the most change.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and it's checking. You said it's checking for I was going to ask you to say it again. The title is checking body fat, you said.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, to change your body fat rate, you know.

Melanie Avalon
So like how fast they lost weight.

Barry Conrad
or how much body fat they dropped.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, it's interesting because it's similar to the other study you found where it was fasting, exercise, or fasting plus exercise. The options are normal diet, fasting, keto, fasting and keto.

Barry Conrad
That's it, you got it.

Melanie Avalon
Did it talk about what they ate exactly?

Barry Conrad
They didn't talk about what foods they had, they just, yeah, they didn't specify that.

Melanie Avalon
Did it talk about the macros? Like actually, because sometimes the studies they'll say is keto and it's not keto.

I saw this in a study recently and it drove me up the wall. I was like, you can't know, like you can't do this study. It was like, they said it was keto, but it was like 30% carbs. Like that's not keto. That's not keto.

Barry Conrad
So that I sent you the link so you can check it out as well. But they, from what I can see, they're not, they controlled like the age and the sex and the starting weight, but they didn't, they're not talking about the exact diet or even how long people are fasting for, they just have 120 overweight or obese participants and split them into those four groups.

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna guess keto and fasting lost the most. And then, oh, this is so hard. And then fasting and then keto and then normal.

Barry Conrad
Almost.

Melanie Avalon
Other way around, then keto and then fasting? Yeah. Okay, so fasting and keto and then keto and then fasting and then normal.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so the control group pretty much nothing happened. The weight and body fat stayed the same.

The keto group saw really strong results, losing an average of 3.5 kgs and 4.8%. And 3.5 kgs and 4.8% body fat. Intimate fasting group saw 2.1 kgs down and 3.2% drop, but the combo of intermittent fasting and keto, they lost 4.7 kgs at a massive 6.3% of their body fat. So that's more than any of the other. And there wasn't just like, what's crazy, the group wasn't just better. Like statistically, it was more effective because the regression analysis showed that doing both together had the strongest impact on fat loss even after controlling their age and starting weight in sex. And they also said here that movement, the movement helped because the more participants exercised each week, love exercise, the more fat they lost. So exercise still played a massive role, especially with IF or keto or both.

And they also said, what I loved as well is like, they checked in with participants about how they were feeling afterwards, which I haven't really seen at other studies. So they, the people doing keto reported being hungrier at first, but that improved over time. Those doing IF said they felt hunger most on the fasting days, which kind of makes me think, are they doing ADF?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, maybe.

Barry Conrad
and that they were fine otherwise, and then the combo group found it the most challenging to stick to, but were the most satisfied with the results.

From what I can see as well, they also have a few caveats because the study did mention possible risks like hypoglycemia and ketoacidosis, especially for people with certain conditions, or if they're jumping in too quickly, too fast, so... I would say to listeners, if anyone's thinking about giving something like this a try, please talk to your healthcare provider first, because it's not a one-size-fits-all and we're not doctors. But I think my main thing, Mel, is, as we can see, both IF and keto have their own fat loss mojo, but combining them, it's maybe that's the cheat code. I don't know, like, for reducing body fat, because I've never tried keto, personally.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's a conversation, really. Oh, wow, I did not know that, never.

Barry Conrad
Have you like what's

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Did you ever, did you ever, that surprises me actually. Uh-huh. Did you ever like contemplate trying it?

Barry Conrad
I think you know what I actually think it was more my opinion of it became such a such a thing a few years ago like Keto. And I think my natural disposition is like to not jump on like a fatty kind of thing. It seemed more like diety and I was like I don't want to do that because everyone's talking about just like losing weight and it seemed more diety to me so I kind of veered away from it.

But I know that's not true. I've done paleo though, which is kind of close ish.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. What about you?

I did not realize that. Yeah, keto was my gateway into fasting because I first tried it before it was popular. I mean, Atkins, I did Atkins. Well, so I guess Atkins was popular, but I didn't do it during the heyday of Atkins, so I did it in a lull period. But that's when I discovered the science of ketosis and ketones and became obsessed with the science of everything. And then that's how I found fasting, was through that obsessive rabbit hole internet searching.

Barry Conrad
What's the difference between Atkins and Paleo?

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's very, it's very different. So, Atkins is more similar to keto. Atkins, you can eat anything as long as it's a certain amount of carbs. It's what made keto popular originally and there's no limitation though on like the quality of food, the type of food.

Like when I was doing it, I was eating literally this like carb quick stuff that was low carb and it was literally like the first ingredient is like gluten. There's something about diet quality. There's something about like whole foods. It's, they have all these Atkins bars and that are made with all these, you know, processed ingredients. So, it's keto without any, yeah, stipulation about that. Compared to paleo, which could be keto if you eat ketogenic foods on paleo, but paleo would be about, you know, whole foods based, no, well, so no dairy and a lot of paleo and Atkins is often high in dairy. No dairy, no grains, no legumes, you know, no sugar, processed foods, et cetera. It's interesting. We should make like a painting of like how they all overlap.

Barry Conrad
You know carnivore is carnivore quite similar to keto then because it's like protein and fat.

Melanie Avalon
Really? Carnivore is keto. So like carnivore is keto, but keto isn't necessarily carnivore.

What do you mean? So if you're keto, sorry, if you're carnivore, you are keto because you're not taking in any carbs. Keto was just about the carb number. So you could do, you could do keto and be eating leafy greens and dairy and well, like a dairy's carnivore. So you could be doing keto and eating a lot of leafy greens and be keto, but you wouldn't eat carnivore because you're having plants.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I get you. Okay. But I've never, yeah, I've just maybe, I don't know how I, how I'd go with Kiro.

Melanie Avalon
I'm dying to know what that would, yeah. Well, you have done it when you do, because you've done like PSMF, right?

Barry Conrad
So i have actually done it without really not like intentionally doing it so just cut cut carbs stick to protein and and fat or animal protein with the phone rather than trying to externally like try to find fat you know.

Melanie Avalon
So that's keto. Okay. Have you done it like multiple days in a row or would you do it as like, like a day, like a, you know, like a one-off type thing? I've done it like who?

Barry Conrad
a few days in a row, like maybe a couple, but not like a whole week or two weeks or anything like that.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yeah, I think that's probably the difference. You've had days that are keto, but you haven't done a keto diet where you're living in that world for an extended period of time.

Barry Conrad
like consistently to see what the results could be if I gave it a chance properly.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because I remember when I first started doing it, I was so excited because and this is the reason it was the gateway for me into an obsession with the science of diet and fat burning. I was so excited that I could get those keto urine sticks and measure ketones.

Hello, what's that? Keto urine sticks? Wait, is this new to you? Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to tell you. Okay, so when you first go into... When you first start a ketogenic diet or fasting, this can happen too, and you start producing ketones. At the very beginning, your body is not very efficient with those ketones and it actually wastes a lot of them rather than converting them into a type of ketone that you use for fuel. So you actually excrete a lot of... When you first go into ketosis, you start excreting ketones in your urine. So there are these urinary test strips and they show you if you're making ketones or not. And it can be confusing for people though because when you first start, it'll be really high and then the longer you do it, you might stop... It'll be less in your urine or you might even... I mean, to probably still register it, but you might not. So people think that they're not in ketosis as much or they're not burning fat and that's not true. It's just that your body isn't wasting the ketones anymore. It's using them.

Barry Conrad
Do you know what my initial thought was when you told me about the urine strips?

Melanie Avalon
I literally have no idea. Wait, I'm trying to think, like, what...

Barry Conrad
like to do like a pregnancy test that's like the, you know, it's just, it's just funny. It's a funny visual for, I don't know why that may be laugh.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, glad that now everybody has this visual of me taking it. Well, it's funny. So one of the shocking moments I have, because at the beginning, okay, well, let me backtrack. The reason I thought it was so exciting was it was like, oh, now I don't have to question am I burning fat, I can literally check. Like I can see on this test strip. So that was very exciting.

And, but then I remember one time I got, so I was doing a keto diet and I would be testing my urinary ketones all the time. And then I went to, oh wait, do they have IHOP in Australia? They should. It's international.

Barry Conrad
I do like it. I do love IHOP. But why were you there? Why were you there? That's not a melody.

Melanie Avalon
Because I, okay, because I went, I wasn't paleo first, paleo didn't come into later, I was keto and Atkins, which like I said, you can eat anything as long as it's certain amount of carbs. So I was still eating like, my order of progression was keto and Atkins, then I found fasting, I wasn't paleo yet, then I found paleo.

So I didn't clean up my, like, quote, clean up my diet for non-processed foods until the third era of my dietary evolution. And honestly, I remember I was, I was fasting, I was doing keto, I was like, it's not going to make much difference if I only eat whole foods, like, what difference will that actually make? Middle, big difference.

Barry Conrad
So hold on, so when at IHOP, what would you like give us an example of what you would have then versus something you definitely wouldn't like even consider now?

Melanie Avalon
So this is the thing. So when I was in my keto Atkins phase at IHOP, I ordered an omelet, which is like eggs, bacon, cheese. Like it should be very keto, right? Like you would think.

I ate the omelet. I went home, I tested my urinary ketones and they were gone. And I was like, what happened? And that's when I found out that IHOP puts pancake batter in their omelets.

That's so dumb. Why would they do that? Make them taste better, I guess. But I was like, how do they not tell you? I mean, I wonder if they tell you that now because I haven't been in IHOP in forever. But back then you could just I mean, maybe they say it on the menu. But I just remember thinking I was like so safe, so good with my keto omelet. And then.

Barry Conrad
Nope. Yeah, because the omelet, it's like, it's definitely keto. That's what I think of as keto.

Melanie Avalon
Not when you add pancake batter to it, sneakily.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny that i can just pick because i'm picturing you sitting in an i hope it's just fun it's a funny visual cuz it's just not is not a melanie place now the melanie i know anyway.

Melanie Avalon
What's funny is all my memory, like when you say IHOP or Denny's, all I can think is 3am, probably wearing like a sparkly cocktail dress, being high on life with my fellow early 20 year olds, living our best lives and eating horrible, greasy food at, you know, a diner in LA. That's what I think.

Barry Conrad
You said Denny's, we had Denny's in New Zealand and it's the best ever. It's like exactly what you said. It's like 24 hours and it's like the whole two AM, three AM thing. Same thing.

Melanie Avalon
after the parties and that food tasted so good and so bad for you. Like just the memory I'm getting hit with right now is I remember, so when I went to USC, there was a Denny's like right by all of our housing. So the memory I have right now is it was at my film fraternity party, it was a dinosaur themed party. So it was me and my two friends all in dinosaur outfits. I think I painted my face with like green glitter and was wearing like a glittery green cocktail dress and something else to look like a dinosaur. So I just have a memory of that.

And my friend Matt and his like yellow dinosaur outfit, he actually got like a dinosaur outfit. And then I don't think Carmen was dressed up. And then we were just at Denny's. Like that's what I get hit with. Good times.

Barry Conrad
Do you have, is there photo we need to see a photo of?

Melanie Avalon
There is a photo. Yeah. Do you want to see it? I'll send it to you.

Barry Conrad
I do wanna see it, that's funny.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, do I not have my photos anymore? Because I lost my Facebook. Oh, no. Well, it's in my scrapbook. So I'll take a picture of it for my scrapbook and send it to you. Do you have a scrapbook?

Barry Conrad
I don't have a- is this an app where you're talking about an actual old school scrapbook?

Melanie Avalon
That's such a cute question. And so sad.

It's such a sad question. Like, it's so sad that now we are in this world where something like scrapbooking it's like, is it an app, you know, like just how far we've come from like the visceral, tangible, these are real, these are real scrapbooks like books, because they can't take that away from me.

Barry Conrad
You know, I used to always keep like a diet, like a diary, like a not not just like a diary, like, you had to plan out things I used to like write at old school, but now I just someone gave me one for Christmas. I'm just I'm just not going to use it.

So I did the whole Melanie, Evelyn mind blown decluttering thing and just tossed it out. I'm not going to use it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait, you throw you throw away the unused one, not not like your one with writing in it. Yeah, the unused one. Yeah. Do you have diary like journals diaries that have writings in them?

Barry Conrad
I actually think you know how we talked about how I had some stuff at like an older house. I think there's a box full of older diaries still there. I'm pretty sure.

Melanie Avalon
It is the best when you find those. When I was going through all my stuff moving, I found so many journals and diaries from my five-year-old self, middle school self.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like a time a time capsule like I thought this like I had this it's so weird in a good way

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's.

Barry Conrad
It's wild. If I interrupted you, Holden, you said scrapbook, so tell me about scrapbook.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, no, just I can take a I'll take a picture of my dinosaur outfit. Oh, I was asking you if you scraped books, if you had scrapbooks.

Barry Conrad
No, no, no, it's not, it's not a BC thing. It's not, I don't know. I just, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
You don't have a whole set of scrapbook materials. You should see my scrapbook material closet. There's a lot.

Barry Conrad
You have a scrap material closet?

Melanie Avalon
yeah, paper, stickers, all the photos. I'm sad because I finished my college scrapbook, college one, like it's done.

And I have a Disney one that's like pretty much done. And then I have a life one that I never finished and then like life got too busy. And maybe I need somebody to do it for me, but I get really into it.

Barry Conrad
Maybe this is a sign that you haven't thought about it in a while, so maybe you should get back into it.

Melanie Avalon
I just don't think, I don't know if I have time. Sad day.

Barry Conrad
What about during your cry?

Melanie Avalon
I'm like, bring all my little supplies with me.

Barry Conrad
Habit stacking, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Awesome. Okay. So does that all make sense now? Like Atkins, keto, paleo, carnivore? Are you going to try keto? Are you going to get some urine sticks?

Barry Conrad
No, no, I'm not going to hit the urine sticks. No, that's, that's a no for me for that, but you know, but I will, I will say that I'm going to intentionally now more approach it and see how I go.

See if I feel any different for starters and then see if it physically affects me like in terms of like how quick I drop weight or water or whatnot over like a longer period of time, we'll see.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you'll have to definitely let us know. Okay, sounds good. How did we start talking about this? Oh, because of your study that you found. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
but no keto urine sticks for me. I'm good.

Melanie Avalon
Barry is not in. Well, if you do want some, I can send you some.

Barry Conrad
I feel like a package from Melody.

Melanie Avalon
hear you. Wait a minute. Okay. I have ideas.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. I'd probably laugh if you did send it to me like, Okay, I guess I have to try it now.

Melanie Avalon
Surprise. So OK, shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. To start things off, we actually have two related questions. And it relates to a prior episode we did. Last episode, we went through a Facebook post from my group, IF Biohackers. And it was everybody commenting on things they struggle with with fasting. And a few people said that binging was a problem for them. So we wanted to address that here and then also read some questions we've also had about that.

So Michelle sent us an email. And the subject is binge eating. And Michelle says, long story short, I lost approximately 90 pounds last year. Wow. Working out two to three times a day and eating around 1,500 calories under 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of sugar. That reminds me really quick, Barry. I don't think I define the amount of carbs that qualifies as keto. So Atkins considers it 20 grams or less of net carbs. And net means you subtract fiber. But sometimes it's put in percentages and people say different amounts. But in general, it's usually around 20 grams. So that's nothing. Yeah, it's not much. Oh my goodness. I'm getting so many flashbacks to my keto Atkins days. Like the recipes I would make, I would get like blocks of cream cheese.

Barry Conrad
I love cream cheese.

Melanie Avalon
I know and put like Splenda in them because this was pre-paleo and just make like icing.

Barry Conrad
just eat it? That sounds good. That sounds really good.

Melanie Avalon
And I would make like, I would get cream cheese and I would make like Alfredo type sauces and just eat like chicken and Alfredo. Oh, so good.

Oh, and I would get these Shirataki noodles. Do you know about those?

Barry Conrad
I do. They're really delicious.

They're really good. You like them? And there's actually a store, literally, I'm not even lying, like downstairs from this apartment block that like an Asian grocer and stuff, and they sell all of that. I just had a look yesterday.

Melanie Avalon
Do they, the ones in Australia, do they smell, because like for me, when you open the bag, they smell like formaldehyde. Like literally smell like formaldehyde.

Really? Yeah, do the ones there smell like that?

Barry Conrad
Not not from what I can remember. I don't think so. Maybe here of a sensitive nose.

Melanie Avalon
This was a thing because I because you had I'd like Google it and people talk about how to get rid of the smell. You had to like dump the water, boil it like a lot and then coat it heavily.

And maybe maybe it's gotten better now.

Barry Conrad
Maybe they've improved. Sniff it in the store. People are like, are you okay, sir?

Melanie Avalon
You know what that would wreck my gut if I had those right now They're like basically just indigestible fiber

Barry Conrad
Yeah you changed your diet up a lot from what you said so no stay away from those.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I remember I used to get, okay, so similar to sirotaki noodles. Have you heard of konjac flour or glucomannan? Okay, wait, there's two different things. They might be the same thing. I'm not sure.

It was this powder that you could add to liquids and it would gel it up and I would get these Atkins shakes that were like no calories but like chocolate or vanilla and then I would add this powder to it and it would turn it into like a pudding and it would be so good and then I would literally be in pain for like a day and then I would get over it and then I would just rinse and repeat like it was so so messed up.

Barry Conrad
Like you're self-sabotaged but you just can't get away, you just can't jump off that train.

Melanie Avalon
So in any case, keto tends to be like 20 grams of carbs.

Barry Conrad
You're a real chemist. You really made all these recipes.

Melanie Avalon
I would make my own version of chicken teriyaki, and I would get liquid Splenda and make teriyaki sauce. I did a lot.

Barry Conrad
Splendid though, is that like the sugar alternative? I've never actually tried that before, ever.

Melanie Avalon
artificial sweetener. I thought it was the best of the best back before I realized how toxic they all are.

So Michelle says she lost 90 pounds working out two to three times a day, eating around 1500 calories, under 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of sugar. I was mentally and physically the healthiest I ever had been. When I started my first year teaching, I started getting out of the routine. By the time May of this year came around, I was burnt out. I was dealing with a burnout, a breakup, a job transition, and applying for grad school. As a person with generalized anxiety, I thrive on consistency. This summer put a huge toll on me and I believe I fell into a depression. I started rewarding myself with bad meals frequently and became too tired to work out. I've gained about 20 pounds back, but overall my issue is binge eating. I will eat when I'm not hungry and make myself miserable. Sometimes I feel like I do it because I'm scared it's not going to be there later on. I'm not sure why. I didn't grow up neglected or it's emotional eating, feeling a void, and overall my family is very overweight. I also take Vyvanse to help with binging. I'm just at the point where I am feeling defeated. My gut health is in terrible shape and I know I just need to get back into getting healthier. I used a 16.8 window on and off last year and I believe it helps. Any advice on binging? And then Noreen, she posted in Facebook, she said, oh and I think this was from that chain we went through. She said, I became so focused on the clock that I forgot to listen to real hunger. This has led to binging. I started IF to lose 20 pounds. It worked until this happened and now I'm still fasting and I have the extra 20 pounds. It took six months to lose. I maintained 1.5 years. I've struggled the past two years. I don't listen to my body's cues anymore. Every day I say I'm going to. I work out hard at the gym, lifting and cardio, 70-30. I'm strong and lean underneath 20 pounds of fluff. So binging. Barry, do you have thoughts on this topic?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I, I like to like addressing kind of both individually. Can I do that? Or do you want me to summarize what I? Sure. Yeah. I mean, Michelle, like what you're saying, it's, it's stressful, like the emotional toll of everything, like the burnout, the transition and everything. And it makes total sense that your team's gonna, it's gonna get thrown off. You're human. The fact that you're even thinking about how to get back on track shows just how much you care about your health.

So don't underestimate that. I mean, binge eating is super tricky because it's never, it's never just about the food. It's a combination of a few things is physiology, psychology, the habits that are built up over a long time. And what I'm hearing you saying is that you were in such a structured discipline place before, like you're working out two, three times a day, eating a very specific way, keeping your carbs and your sugar pretty low, and then life just sort of hit you pretty hard. And when that kind of structure suddenly disappears, Michelle, like your brain tends to swing the other way to compensate. And it's like, hold on, you know, we're operating under all these tight rules. And now things just feel like way out of control. So let's just grab whatever we can eat on the go. So I think the key here is to look at why the binging is happening. And you mentioned sometimes feeling like you need to eat because the food might not be there later. I've had thoughts like that before as well. Like maybe let me just sort of eat for the future. And that's just not, you don't need to do that, even though you didn't grow up in a food insecurity. That right there tells me like your brand, it's still wide in a scarcity mindset when it comes to eating, which is something a lot of people experience after, especially a long periods of restriction. So it's not even necessarily a conscious fear. It's just this like a deep rooted drive that says stock up now while you can. And then, of course, there's the emotional side, which is like filling a void and using food as a comfort mechanism, which again is is a big thing for a lot of people, especially when stress and exhaustion piles up. So I guess where do we go from here, Michelle? I guess one of the biggest things is shifting the way you're looking at structure. So it sounds like you thrive in a routine. Same. And fasting definitely gives you some of that. So maybe bring back that 16 eight window, for example, maybe that could help, but not in a restrictive way. So instead of thinking of I can't eat outside this window, try reframing it as this is when I feel my best eating. This is when I can eat. That small shift in mindset makes a huge difference. And within that, focusing on nourishment rather than restriction is going to be your friend. So if your meals are built around protein rich nutrient dense foods, that's going to help stabilize your blood sugar and and actually help with those binges.

Barry Conrad
Michelle, because binging isn't just mental. It's also literally blood sugar and satiety issue as well. So if your body isn't getting what it needs on the regular, it's going to push you towards those massive cravings. And I have to mention gut health as well, because you said your guts is like a mess right now. And honestly, I think that could be playing a bigger role than maybe you realize, because there is a big gut brain connection. And when your microbiome is off, it can actually increase stress and anxiety. And it becomes the cycle where like, if your gut health fuels your mood imbalances, which feels binging, which then leads like to gut issues. So bringing in maybe like fermented foods, you know, omega threes, making sure you're giving your gut that right environment is going to help. I mean, finally, I would say like, back on track, you know, that same back on track, like it doesn't mean going back to where you were a year ago. I mean, you made so much progress. It's about creating something that fits into your life now, Michelle, and that supports you instead of like controlling. You already know what works. Now it's just about finding a way to do it that doesn't feel so extreme and constricting. And Melanie, what do you think about that? I mean, what are your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
I love everything you said so much. So I love that you touched on the part about having the eating for the future. I think that happens a lot with people, not even just with binging, but with people with intermittent fasting. They think that because they're fasting, yeah, they have to stock up on food because they're going to be fasting. So having a reframe there of, like you said, this is when you feel best to eat, and you get to eat again tomorrow, like the next day, if you're doing a fasting protocol, just remembering that I think is so important.

The gut health piece, so I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to mention this. I interviewed, again, Dr. Stephen Gundry. I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes that was on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. One of the things I really liked that we talked about, and this was for his newest book called The Gut Brain Paradox, and it's about the connection between our microbiome and our gut. He makes the case that the concept of intuitive eating, for example, might not even be, I don't want to say not possible, but our gut microbiome largely determines our cravings. So the intuitive thing to do if our gut microbiome is out of whack and used to eating things that are not in our favor, the intuitive thing is to eat those things because that's what the microbiome is telling you. So if you get into a binge type cycle where you're binging on a lot of unhealthy foods, your microbiome is going to start craving that and tell you to eat more. The way out of that is to stop eating those foods and change what you're eating and your microbiome will actually change. It can change pretty fast. So I guess just knowing that these cravings you're having for certain foods may, like Barry said, and I just touched on, they may be coming from a gut microbiome that's a little bit out of whack, but you can definitely change it for the better. And we'll put a link in the show notes to that episode with Dr. Gundry. One thing else that I think is really important is on the one hand, I do think that there is usually behind binging habits, it's a psychological piece like Barry was saying. So could be something from your childhood, some sort of trauma, like it's probably coming from an emotional place. At the same time, I love the work of Glenn Livingston. He originally wrote a book called Never Binge Again. His newest book is called Defeat Your Cravings. And I've had him on the shows a few times, but most recently we had him on this show for episode 356. So either go to show notes, which will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 423, or go directly, so it uses link instead, or go directly to ifpodcast.com slash cravings. And you can get his book for free there. But his whole thing that I love so much is that yes, even if there are these emotional things behind everything, even if it's from childhood, like it literally doesn't, not that it doesn't matter, but to make change, you can you can quickly and rapidly make change if you have a mindset shift where you just say no.

Melanie Avalon
His whole thing, I've talked about it a lot in the show before, but he calls it like the pig. So you call this, you call this voice inside of you that's telling you to eat, you call it something else that's not you. He calls the pig, but you can call it whatever you want. You basically learn to that you don't have to listen to it.

And I know it sounds so simple to say you just stop binging. That's the concept. Like you don't like you don't like contemplate it. You don't like wonder where it's coming from. You don't like try to reason with it. You don't try to like logic your way out of things. You literally just say no. And I'm way oversimplifying it. But it's an incredible approach. And it has radically changed so many people's lives. So I would definitely, definitely get his book ASAP. Again, you can get it for completely free. Just go to ifodcast.com slash cravings, and you can get it there. So that might help I think for both of them.

Barry Conrad
It's awesome, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, all right any other thoughts for those

Barry Conrad
you know with yeah with Noreen I you know thanks for being so honest and vulnerable about this you know I think a lot of people relate and the fact that you lost 20 pounds and maintained it over like a whole year is massive and one of my personal mentors that I actually use in life is I have done it I can do it and I will do it again so you don't have to worry about that but I know that the last couple of years I felt like a struggle so take a breath in let's zoom out for a second you know you you mentioned that you're strong and you'll lean but underneath that 20 pounds and first of all that's amazing the fact that you you're lifting and doing cardio you're showing up for your workouts that's great it says a lot but I reckon it might be time to maybe shift a little bit like starting to ask again reframing things like am I hungry right now am I just watching the clock rather than paying attention to how I feel you know and with binging as Melanie and I bursted before it's it's often from restriction physically or mentally especially for too long and you're trying to white knuckle your way through it and at what might help us maybe go into a 18 maybe go from 18 6 to like a 14 10 even for a little bit like give yourself permission to eat when you're hungry focus on that because you're you're also lifting a lot and doing cardio and gymming like that put stress on your body the good kind of stress but you need to feel yourself properly as well you know so under feeling or inconsistent feelings gonna spike those cravings and when you prioritize protein healthy fats and carbs after that's gonna help you I mean last thing I would say Noreen is just give yourself some grace you know like the hardest part is showing up and just be willing to change things just change your mind reevaluate reset you've got this you know you're more in tune than you think so keep us posted with how it goes now what do you reckon

Melanie Avalon
I love everything you said so much yeah people you really do have this and i love what you said about i do the same thing so when you're saying that you. You can do it because you've done in the past something i often tell myself is.

You only have to do something once to do it a million times because if we haven't done something before it's scary and i might seem like we can't do it but once you've done it once you can do it a million times cuz you know you've done it so. You know tackling these things in your own at your own pace and one thing at a time just know that you you've done it before you can keep doing it going forward so definitely let us know both Michelle and arena how it goes.

Barry Conrad
Please do. Good luck and keep us posted. We're rooting for you.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Shall we have our hypothetical, magical, not real, fake, but also real breaking of our fast?

Barry Conrad
I'm so ready and I'm hungry too. It's now Melanie and Phyllis is out there just to give you some inside baseball.

It's 12 p.m. here in Australia right now. Melanie, what time is it where you are? Nine o'clock p.m. That's so crazy. There you go. Just a bit of insight.

Melanie Avalon
I know I call you Australia when I'm, if I'm like saying that I have a, if I like can't do something with somebody, I'm like, I, I'm like, I'm, um, got my Australia tonight.

Barry Conrad
That's pretty funny. That's hilarious.

Melanie Avalon
talking with Australia. I love it. Works well. Works well with our, it's a good thing I have such a crazy circadian rhythm.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Otherwise you'd be like, it's too late. Can we do like one PM my time?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know what we're going to do when you move to the US, so I have to figure that out.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what are we going to do? We can do it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah we'll figure it out okay so well I'm inspired because our last our last episode you gave me the green light to do Disney restaurants.

Barry Conrad
Of course, let's do it. I was hoping that you'd bring another one.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to like slowly, I mean, I know you're already on board, but I'm going to make, I'm going to turn Barry Conrad into an Epcot like fanboy by the time we move here and then you're just going to have to go. So let me send you the link.

Actually let me explain first. So this menu is not, okay, let me explain. One of my favorite restaurants in Epcot, which to recap, Epcot is the experimental prototype community of tomorrow, one of the four Disney World Parks. And it has an area called the World Showcase where there are 11 countries in a row. Each country is, it looks like you're in that country. The people who work there are from that country, they're dressed up, there's like restaurants and stores. Some have rides. It's incredible. And the restaurants are just really amazing. And they're very authentic. So actually I'll save it. It's like the Mexican restaurant, for example. It's like authentic Mexican. It's not like Tex-Mex, like American food. One of my favorites is called the Beer Garden Restaurant. It's in Germany. And it is set up to look like, it looks so cool, Barry, like you could Google it. It looks like you are at an outdoor, like in Germany, outside, but you're inside. But it looks like it's outside and it looks like it's nighttime. And it looks like there's like buildings and everything and then there's a big stage. And they do like a show every night, like multiple times. And they do like a beer garden show with like music and Lederhosen and singing and like cheers and it's the most best time. And then there's a buffet of German food that you get food from.

Barry Conrad
I'm looking at photos right now, Mel. It looks awesome. It looks epic.

Melanie Avalon
Doesn't it look so cool?

Barry Conrad
All the lights in there, it's amazing, it's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
And it literally feels like you're outdoors, but it's indoors. It's so cool. I love it. It's wonderful.

And then the show. So I set you the list of what they have on the on the buffet. So what all would you eat from the buffet here? Let me turn it to dinner.

Barry Conrad
Lunch menu. Okay, let's turn to dinner.

Melanie Avalon
And it's a partial listing. So these are like the main things that they always have, but then they'll have, they probably have like double this, but they'll have specific things that night. So these are the staples.

So actually I can read the staples. So like the staples, they have seasonal salads, rotisserie chicken, potatoes, schnitzel, traditional sausages, sauerkraut, schnitzel, noodle gratin, and assorted desserts.

Barry Conrad
What would I have? I would, I would have all, I don't know what's that's all is and noodle grats and what are those smells, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So this is so funny to me. So my family is German. We would go to Germany a lot growing up, and my dad took me to Germany when I was five. And I remember being so upset because like when I first went with my dad, all he fed me over there in Germany was bratwurst, like bratwurst and vice first, which is like white bratwurst. And I mean, I liked bratwurst, but I didn't like love bratwurst. Like it wasn't my favorite thing.

And then I realized when I was older that they had this thing called schnitzel. I know you asked about schnitzel, but they have schnitzel, which is basically like fried chicken and it's delicious. And this was before my like dietary changes. And like half of the time it's like stuffed with cheese. And I was like, dad, how, like parents, how are you like only feeding me bratwurst when I could have been having this like amazing fried chicken and fried ham schnitzel or like schnitzel, which is like a pasta dish. It has like eggs and flour and milk and butter. It's usually when I've had it, like when I had it there, it was always warm. Sometimes it has like a sauce on it. It's really usually really yummy. Sometimes it has like a cheesy sauce. It's really good.

Barry Conrad
I'm Googling a photo of it. Ah, this looks really good. It almost looks like macaroni and cheese vibes, like in terms of creamy, ta-da-da, na?

Melanie Avalon
It's like that without being super cheesy but it's like very creamy and I wasn't sure what noodle gratin was. I looked it up and literally Disney World comes up so I feel like they came up with it.

I don't know. It looks like it's um potatoes or gratin but with noodles instead.

Barry Conrad
So I would go off this buffet list, pretty much everything there. I would try everything there.

So the seasonal salads, rotisserie chicken, potatoes, schnitzel, for sure. By the way, Melanie, schnitzels are massive in Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? Yeah. Wait, is it the same thing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like chicken snitty. You want to get a chicken snitty? We said chicken snitty.

Melanie Avalon
don't have that here in the US. Even when I say fried chicken, I realize I'm glad you I'm glad you're saying this because when I say fried chicken, it's not what Americans are thinking up.

It's like, it's like a fried patty like, like a fried no, how do I say it?

Barry Conrad
It's like breaded as well, right? It's not like, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's like taking a chicken breast and breading it. So it's flat and square, usually. It's not like fried chicken, like Kentucky fried chicken. It's not like that. It's like pounded, usually.

Barry Conrad
It's actually really good. Actually, you saw right. I've never seen it in America. It's not a thing there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, which is like so weird because it's very in line with what we would like here. Something strange that it hasn't taken off.

Barry Conrad
I also didn't know you were German learned something again about you didn't know i did not know that till now there we go.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just think it's so funny, though, that my parents, like, why were they making me eat bratwurst the whole time when I could have been having schnitzel and spatzel?

Barry Conrad
traditional sauce, just sauerkraut nuts, so I mean, it could take it to leave it for me. I want to try the spazzle and I want to, out of curiosity, try the noodle gratin, whatever that is. Yeah, what about you?

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's funny, it's funny how far I've come with sauerkraut. So I remember being again, growing up German, being so grossed out by sauerkraut and thinking like how horrible and disgusting it looked. And now I'm like, I think it's like the best thing ever.

And it's so good for your gut microbiome, you know, fermented. I would eat probably eat the, well, they have allergy friendly options. So I would ask for allergy friendly versions of, I probably just eat the chicken and sauerkraut.

Barry Conrad
Really? What about the traditional sausages? Is that too much from your past? No more. I'm done with that.

Melanie Avalon
I would like to try it. It's just with the sausages, you don't really know what all is in there. So I wouldn't know if it had a lot of like sugar added and stuff. If I knew it was like just sausage, I would definitely like to try it.

But the good thing, the one thing I love about Disney is they are very good at working with dietary restrictions. They're like all about it. They'll like give you a tour. So like when you I've been given the tour at the buffet, they'll like come out and they'll tour you through the buffet and point at what is on your diet or not. It's crazy.

Barry Conrad
That's really good. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
I do too, but they're Disney.

Barry Conrad
What about the assorted dessert? What kind of desserts do they have, do you know?

Melanie Avalon
It's been so long. I'm trying to remember if I remember anything. I've been there so many times though. I do know I feel like there was like a pudding that was good, but they probably change it now.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I wonder like I'm part German, but don't really know it. Yeah, but I don't know anything about that, but it's not really a cultural thing.

So I don't know what sort of desserts to expect the German type motif. I don't, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Well, so I'm looking at pictures and it looks like they have, these are just pictures on Google. I see some, let's just look up common German desserts, because that's probably what they have, common German.

So common German desserts are things like, I don't know how to say these words, chocolate, lebuken. There's some sort of chocolate cakes, plum tarts, cookies, stolen, they probably have that. It's like a bread that has fruit in it, kind of like fruit cake, but not really. It's harder, has fruit and nuts and spices and then icing on it.

Barry Conrad
They got cheesecakes. I'm looking at, there's quite a few German cheesecakes. Is that a thing there? Quite big? Yeah. I'm all for the dessert, so let's do it. I'll try the assorted.

Melanie Avalon
I will watch you have them. I will, this is what we can do. I think this will be fun.

You can get all of them, and then I will tell you which ones I think I would like. And then you can try them all and let me know which ones you like, and then we'll compare notes.

Barry Conrad
And then you'll try some too? Okay, what else would you like to try? There's some beverages there. How about beverages?

Melanie Avalon
So they do have a Pinot Noir from Germany, I would have to look it up and see if anything's organic. Would you get some beer?

Barry Conrad
I would in the theme of being at this place for sure, and I'm not normally a beer guy, but I'm definitely gonna have some beer here because I saw it in the photo too. So I'm like, yeah, I'll do that.

Melanie Avalon
You've got to have it because during the show they do this whole thing where they like sing and then they're like Broast and everybody like like broasts and everybody sings the thing together. Oh and they do that.

They do the um The chicken song what's that like that? Dada? Dada? Dada? Dada? Dada? Do you know that song? Yeah, I have cool it. Dada. Dada. Dada. Dada. Yeah, they do that and like everybody sings it Apparently, it's I guess it's german. I don't know

Barry Conrad
Would you get a beer as well to try it on up.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no. I, yeah, I don't like beer. I like active, not only, I mean, it has gluten in it, but I actively dislike beer. Like I dislike it.

Barry Conrad
Whoa, why? Why actively? It's like quite, you know.

Melanie Avalon
I know. And I like most foods and drinks.

I just don't like the taste of it. Well, what's interesting is I do have a gluten and a wheat sensitivity. And so it's literally just brewed wheat. So I think my body is telling me that I should not be eating it.

Like my body does not like wheat. Fair enough. So I don't like the taste.

Barry Conrad
You know, Mel, I don't like, I'm not a beer guy, but while I was moving, I bought, I bought a six pack. That says a lot, right? You got to. I did it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it like blows my mind like I can't wrap my mind around enjoying the taste of beer and I like I know people like crave like a cold beer on a summer day and like literally that sounds miserable sour beers. If I had to, I do a sour beer.

Do they have a sour beer? What's that? It's kind of more like wine.

Barry Conrad
Is it a brand or is that a type of beer?

Melanie Avalon
No, it's a type of beer. I don't see one. So I actually, I worked in a beer bar. That was my first serving job.

So I learned a lot about beer, which was helpful, even though I don't drink it. So sour beers are kind of, they're very like fruity and they're, yeah, they're more like wine. You would, you should keep your eyes if you see, like next time you go to a restaurant, like that has a lot of beer, see if they have a sour beer.

Barry Conrad
I did a couple of years ago when I went back to New Zealand for Christmas, this hotel invited me there for this beer tasting situation. It was really fun actually, because I don't normally drink beer, but they had like six to eight beers, and we just went through them all, and it was actually pretty interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Do they have one that was soury, kind of fruity?

Barry Conrad
Not sorry, but there were there were fruitier ones. Maybe it's maybe that's just a thing. I'm sure there is, though. It's Australia. Australia, we love our beer here. I'm sure there is.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Australia, I just find Australia so like interesting. Really? Yeah. Feel like everybody's like happy and hot and drunk and.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. And what's the alternative in America? Like what? Everyone's like at IHOP?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, because you guys seem like genuinely happy. Here, we're like happy, but also like have like a lot a chip on our shoulder, and our petty and then lots of different seasons.

So not just hot drinking on and off.

Barry Conrad
We have different seasons, but it's not just like so I feel like you feel like it's somewhere here all the time and everyone's like running around and like board shorts.

Melanie Avalon
I do feel that. That's probably completely wrong. I realize I have completely wrong perspective, but I'm just telling you my stereotype from my head.

Barry Conrad
So you wouldn't get so you wouldn't get a base on this menu here would you have a wine maybe a pinot noir.

Melanie Avalon
Maybe. I have to look up the two. They only have two right now. So maybe the Pinot Noir, this might be a sneak in my wine situation.

Barry Conrad
I really want to see this happen like the compartment, how you do it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, I will I will show you I'm not right now when I'm thinking about I'm thinking about because I haven't been to Disney since I started this. I'm trying to think about the security at the front. How that works.

I think I could do it. The bad that I'm telling like thousands of people this it's too late now. I'm just doing it to support my health. Yeah, it's health reasons.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I would get the Pinot Grigio, by the way, I get a glass of that

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I might have to look at the whites here. Yeah. So and to emphasize, friends, the importance of the eating window because the benefits of fasting are not just in the fast. You need that eating window to actually get all of the benefits.

So cheers to everybody. This was so, so amazing. Listeners, friends, if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can email questions at ipodcast.com, or you can go to ipodcast.com. You can submit questions there. And the show notes will be at ipodcast.com slash episode 423. To get that free defeat your cravings book, go to ipodcast.com slash cravings. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And we are I have podcast. So I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go

Barry Conrad
No, thanks again so much for tuning in everyone. You're awesome. Have an amazing rest of your day and we'll see you next time.

Melanie Avalon
I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
I think I'll talk to you then, bye.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

May 26

Episode 423 – Understanding Atkins Vs. Keto Vs. Paleo, Testing Ketones, Fasting And Binging, Keto Vs. Fasting Vs. Both For Fat Loss, The Most Stressful Life Events, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 423 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

SHOW NOTES


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LINKS

Featured Restaurant:  Biergarten Restaurant

MABP Episode 297 

Defeat Your Cravings: Free Book 

STUDIES:

Study on the Influence of Ketogenic Diet and Intermittent Fasting on the Change of Body Fat Rate

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)



Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 423 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 423 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. And Barry, congratulations on successfully moving apartments.

Barry Conrad
Hey, everyone. Hey, Mel. Yes, I moved places yesterday. It was over the last couple of days. And I was saying before, I feel so tired.

I don't get why because, like, when I go to the gym, for example, like, where I feel like I'm pushing a whole lot of weight, I definitely don't feel like this afterwards. Like, Mel, is it like an emotional weight? Like, what's the why am I so exhausted? I don't get it.

Melanie Avalon
It's so interesting you say that I have the exact same thought whenever I move. I think about what you just said. I'm like, this isn't like, yes, I'm moving a lot. Yes, I'm picking things up, but it's not, you know, it's not climbing Mount Everest and it's not like a workout at the gym. Well, it is a little bit, I think it's, I think it's the emotional part. I really do.

Like, it's just the mental and the psychological aspect of it. And you have so much that you have to get accomplished, like by a deadline, you have to get all your stuff from point A to point B. It's a moment of uncertainty. And we know our brains don't like uncertainty. They register that as a threat. So it's like you're in a stress threat state while also physically moving a lot of stuff, so very true.

Barry Conrad
training. It's training and I feel like like you're right. I think processing all of that at the same time and also kind of maybe grieving in a way like that sounds deep, but you've been in a place for a while. It's like, I'm used to this.

I'm used to that. Now I'm saying goodbye to it really quickly. While the movers are here, packing things up and it's kind of like a low key traumatic kind of experience and also just annoying because moving sucks. But it's also exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I'm pretty sure it's high on the list of top 10 most stressful life events. I'm pretty sure. Let's see. Okay. Oh, maybe not. I thought it was higher up.

Okay. I could have sworn moving was on the list. What's the top 10? Okay. Yeah. This is the official list. It's number one. This is the Holmes Ray stress scale first developed in 1967 and it's a scale of life stressors. What do you think number one is?

Barry Conrad
Your house burning down, is that on there? Like you're losing your home?

Melanie Avalon
No, actually, I'm just confused because I could have sworn moving was like way up there.

Barry Conrad
What about surgeons performing really intense operations? That's a pretty high stress environment.

Melanie Avalon
The closest to that is number six, which is not the same thing, but it's major. Well, yeah, major personal injury or illness is number six.

What's number one? I'm curious. Number one. Number nine is funny. So number one is death of a spouse.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, for sure. That's definitely the number one. I should have said that straight away, losing somebody that you love.

Melanie Avalon
Do you want to guess number two and three because they're similar and they involve relationships?

Barry Conrad
Okay, divorce.

Melanie Avalon
Yes that's number two.

Barry Conrad
And number three, breakups, well, that's the same thing.

Melanie Avalon
No, yeah, similar. What's a breakup where you're breaking up but you're still together? Separation. Yes, marital separation, number three.

Barry Conrad
Wow, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so relationships cause a lot of stress is my takeaway. The top three all involve the top three all involve the significant other. I shouldn't laugh about the death one.

Barry Conrad
So you're running from all things relationships based on this, this little thing, this survey.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just saying and oh wait, we'll wait to get to number nine. Should I tell you what number nine was?

Tell me. Number nine is marital reconciliation. Really? Yeah. You just can't win. You just cannot win. Oh man. For, unless you want to guess any of the other ones.

Barry Conrad
No, it's all right, it's all right.

Melanie Avalon
So, four is being incarcerated. Wow. Interesting, though, that it's more stressful to get divorced than to be put in jail.

Barry Conrad
There's reason to laugh, but it's just funny. It's just that we're not laughing at anyone.

Melanie Avalon
Humor helps us get through the stress of life, I think. Humor and kindness.

Number five is death of a close family member. Yeah, that's sad and stressful. Six was the injury and illness. Oh, seven. What? Seven, marriage. Oh, my God.

Barry Conrad
Oh my god, it's all relationships.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Number eight, being fired or laid off from work. And 10 is retirement.

So I was wrong, moving is not on there, but I would put it on there. My scale, well, my scale, I can take off half of those. So I'll, what would you make your scale? What would your top three be on your scale?

Barry Conrad
Oh my God. I think, okay, losing a spouse, for sure. I would say losing a spouse, my second guess was going to be losing a family member. And then the third, I would say maybe divorce, because I think that's pretty traumatic, because it's stressful based on what I know of friends who have had divorces and stuff.

But definitely family would be way up there for me, losing family.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like for my skill, I need to make like a relationship scale and then a non-relationship skill because then I can do a more accurate skill for my life because if I'm not getting married that gets rid of half of these. So I would say death of a family member and then I think I think I would say what you said like your house burning down, that would be horrible.

And then for me, I think moving. Actually being put in jail would be a lot to deal with.

Barry Conrad
of course it would be but also Mel I was I listened to that episode of the the mind-blowing podcast you know the one you were saying about the decluttering I listened to that like while preparing for like packing things up so I had it on like and I was packing stuff up while listening to you talk and something that you said stuck with me it was the the 80-20 rule like the Pareto principle like how we like in context of belongings how we use 20% of our things 80% of the time I really think that's true

Melanie Avalon
I, I mean, looking around, I mean, it might be like for me, I feel like I use like 10% of my stuff, 90% of the time, honestly.

Barry Conrad
It's because like the same rotation of clothes, shoes, like gadgets, whatever it is, like, I feel like whatever you pack with you to go on trips and stuff, that's kind of like what you use most of the time. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think we talked about this last week when you moved all your stuff. Did you get rid of stuff?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I did. I sold stuff. I actually sold like tables, sold like my bed and the bed frame and a coffee machine. Yeah, I actually did pretty good in like a week. I sold all that stuff. So I did it.

Melanie Avalon
Did you get rid of anything that you were inspired to get rid of by listening to that episode?

Barry Conrad
Actually, yeah, because now I have boxes of stuff that I even like I thought that I needed and I'm going to get rid of that as well now. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Nice.

Barry Conrad
Minimalist life.

Melanie Avalon
Did fasting help with your move?

Barry Conrad
It actually did. I made sure I didn't eat or break my fastened or I finished packing everything. I just got into this zone, like this intense zone and just went under a packing rampage. And then at the very end, after that mental clarity and exertion, had a whole lot of food, wine chilled out.

It was the best.

Melanie Avalon
That was always how I approached moving, I would, you know, if I had multiple days, I would, I would not let myself, I would not eat until I was like done with that day's, you know, work of moving stuff.

Barry Conrad
When you when you get into your new place, for example, do you wait like because you're so tired like to get in there, the boxes and stuff are still there and you chill first, or do you just straight away get it all unpacked and then chill?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So listeners, I'm glad you brought this up because you said you unpacked everything.

It takes me like three weeks to... I'm not kidding. When you said like you unpacked everything that day, I was like... I did. Everything? Yeah, because there's so many boxes and so much stuff. And then I like to, I feel so... Literally, I get dopamine hits just thinking about it. I get so excited to unpack the stuff and like put it in its proper place. Oh, it feels so good. Feels so good. So I savor it and I do it over a couple weeks. Yes, weeks.

Barry Conrad
but also i don't know if i believe that because you know i also heard you say you know you have the thing where you put you throw something away get rid of something like one thing a day and you have a stickers and stuff so how much stuff do you have.

Melanie Avalon
I don't have, I'm like a normal apartment.

Barry Conrad
but you just want to take your time unpacking it. I get it. I get what you're saying.

Melanie Avalon
And and okay, okay, here's the other thing. Here is the other thing. I've slowly been like when we moved out of our childhood ish house. A couple years ago, we had to go through everything. That was a lot.

And I kept a lot of stuff from that like I got rid of a ton of stuff but I kept a lot of stuff. And I have a storage unit here. So I have I basically, I am proud to say that I everything from my life that I have kept I now have with me, like in my apartment or my or my storage unit, rather than it being like all different places like there at one point. And so at one point, I had stuff in my childhood home, I had stuff in a storage unit in LA, I was like living here, like I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't everything's not in one place. But I can say now confidently that everything is either in my apartment or in a storage unit. And it's not that much. I don't think

Barry Conrad
That's pretty impressive to have everything that I get I get that feeling of disarray cuz I I'm in that previous position right now where I have some in like an older house still in boxes which I need to I need to consolidate that for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's yeah, it's a lot so

Barry Conrad
Anyway, what about you, other than my moving debacles?

Melanie Avalon
This, this will have happened quite a while ago, but finally I've mentioned it, I think every single episode, the past few episodes. So apologies for that.

But I'm finally launching my EMF blocking product line on Friday, this hour Friday. Awesome. So I'm very excited about that.

This will be my first non supplement physical product, just as a brief recap for listeners, EMFs, we are way overexposed to them today. We were not exposed to them in this way in the past. And I actually just re interviewed our blank, my business partner, and revisited all the science of it. And it does not look good for how they affect our health.

And I didn't know this. I didn't know EMF sensitivity is actually a medical diagnosis. Like there's codes for it. Really? Yeah. I did not know that. That's exciting. It's exciting to know that the medical community is taking it seriously.

They are classified by the IARC as a group to be carcinogen and you can reduce your exposure by not using wifi. If you can not using Bluetooth as much as you can, not holding your phone up to your head, which the iPhone actually suggests that you use speakerphone in the legal section of the iPhone. And so I have created EMF free headphones because even normal headphones can conduct their digital so they can conduct EMFs into your brain. So mine are completely free of that. So listeners, they will be out by the time this comes out. So you can go to Avalon X EMF dot us and use the code Melanie Avalon to get 10% off.

And that code will also work for 10% off site wide because what happens when you go to that, that website, it's my website, but then you'll be directed to my partner shield your body, their website. And so that code will work on my products and all of their products as well. And if listeners would like to get all the updates on those products and future launches and sales and specials and all the things, you can go to Melanie Avalon.com slash EMF email list. Okay. Yes, I'm excited.

Barry Conrad
Congratulations, Melanie. That's amazing.

That's honestly so incredible. And the fact that I love that you said it was like a medical diagnosis and you you're kind of ahead of the curve because I haven't heard of anyone else doing this in this way. So that's amazing. That's awesome. Seriously.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much. And also shout out to my partner, our blank is his name. And he owns shield your body. They also make emf blocking products. And he's just so knowledgeable on this topic. I really respect him.

And he's been incredible to work with creating the products together. So shout out to him. And thank you for the kind words means a lot coming from you.

Barry Conrad
Very exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, shall we jump into some fasting related things for today?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump right on in.

Melanie Avalon
Let's do it. Also, wait, before we do that, really quick question. So are you, so when you sent me that message about being done and unpacked and everything in one day, which I'm still, I want a picture of your apartment. I just need to see this.

But in any case, I listened to that and I was like, like, is he gonna be okay to record? But look at you, you're here. Are you really tired? Are you good?

Barry Conrad
I'm actually fine like I'm good like my back is a little bit janky I think probably lifting stuff but that's fine that's just normal but I feel really good I had a really good sleep and I'm gonna hit the gym after the show I mean after we record so I feel good.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. So do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study to start us off with and the study I'm bringing today is called the influence of ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting on the change of body fat rate. This was done by Pu Yuan Yu from the College of Biological and Agricultural Engineering at Jilin University in China. I know it sounds like a pretty clinical title, but the findings are really, really exciting.

It's sort of about something a lot of us are already curious about, about how effective is IF alone and how does it stack up against keto and what happens when you combine the two. This was a 12-week randomized control trial, which is sort of like the gold standard when it comes to research. So they took 120 overweight or obese participants and they split them into four groups. So one stayed on their normal diet, aka the control group, one went full keto, one practiced intermittent fasting, and the last group did both keto and intermittent fasting together. So Mel, see if you can rank those four groups for me of who had the most change or none at all. Four being no change, one being the most change.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and it's checking. You said it's checking for I was going to ask you to say it again. The title is checking body fat, you said.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, to change your body fat rate, you know.

Melanie Avalon
So like how fast they lost weight.

Barry Conrad
or how much body fat they dropped.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, it's interesting because it's similar to the other study you found where it was fasting, exercise, or fasting plus exercise. The options are normal diet, fasting, keto, fasting and keto.

Barry Conrad
That's it, you got it.

Melanie Avalon
Did it talk about what they ate exactly?

Barry Conrad
They didn't talk about what foods they had, they just, yeah, they didn't specify that.

Melanie Avalon
Did it talk about the macros? Like actually, because sometimes the studies they'll say is keto and it's not keto.

I saw this in a study recently and it drove me up the wall. I was like, you can't know, like you can't do this study. It was like, they said it was keto, but it was like 30% carbs. Like that's not keto. That's not keto.

Barry Conrad
So that I sent you the link so you can check it out as well. But they, from what I can see, they're not, they controlled like the age and the sex and the starting weight, but they didn't, they're not talking about the exact diet or even how long people are fasting for, they just have 120 overweight or obese participants and split them into those four groups.

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna guess keto and fasting lost the most. And then, oh, this is so hard. And then fasting and then keto and then normal.

Barry Conrad
Almost.

Melanie Avalon
Other way around, then keto and then fasting? Yeah. Okay, so fasting and keto and then keto and then fasting and then normal.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so the control group pretty much nothing happened. The weight and body fat stayed the same.

The keto group saw really strong results, losing an average of 3.5 kgs and 4.8%. And 3.5 kgs and 4.8% body fat. Intimate fasting group saw 2.1 kgs down and 3.2% drop, but the combo of intermittent fasting and keto, they lost 4.7 kgs at a massive 6.3% of their body fat. So that's more than any of the other. And there wasn't just like, what's crazy, the group wasn't just better. Like statistically, it was more effective because the regression analysis showed that doing both together had the strongest impact on fat loss even after controlling their age and starting weight in sex. And they also said here that movement, the movement helped because the more participants exercised each week, love exercise, the more fat they lost. So exercise still played a massive role, especially with IF or keto or both.

And they also said, what I loved as well is like, they checked in with participants about how they were feeling afterwards, which I haven't really seen at other studies. So they, the people doing keto reported being hungrier at first, but that improved over time. Those doing IF said they felt hunger most on the fasting days, which kind of makes me think, are they doing ADF?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, maybe.

Barry Conrad
and that they were fine otherwise, and then the combo group found it the most challenging to stick to, but were the most satisfied with the results.

From what I can see as well, they also have a few caveats because the study did mention possible risks like hypoglycemia and ketoacidosis, especially for people with certain conditions, or if they're jumping in too quickly, too fast, so... I would say to listeners, if anyone's thinking about giving something like this a try, please talk to your healthcare provider first, because it's not a one-size-fits-all and we're not doctors. But I think my main thing, Mel, is, as we can see, both IF and keto have their own fat loss mojo, but combining them, it's maybe that's the cheat code. I don't know, like, for reducing body fat, because I've never tried keto, personally.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's a conversation, really. Oh, wow, I did not know that, never.

Barry Conrad
Have you like what's

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Did you ever, did you ever, that surprises me actually. Uh-huh. Did you ever like contemplate trying it?

Barry Conrad
I think you know what I actually think it was more my opinion of it became such a such a thing a few years ago like Keto. And I think my natural disposition is like to not jump on like a fatty kind of thing. It seemed more like diety and I was like I don't want to do that because everyone's talking about just like losing weight and it seemed more diety to me so I kind of veered away from it.

But I know that's not true. I've done paleo though, which is kind of close ish.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. What about you?

I did not realize that. Yeah, keto was my gateway into fasting because I first tried it before it was popular. I mean, Atkins, I did Atkins. Well, so I guess Atkins was popular, but I didn't do it during the heyday of Atkins, so I did it in a lull period. But that's when I discovered the science of ketosis and ketones and became obsessed with the science of everything. And then that's how I found fasting, was through that obsessive rabbit hole internet searching.

Barry Conrad
What's the difference between Atkins and Paleo?

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's very, it's very different. So, Atkins is more similar to keto. Atkins, you can eat anything as long as it's a certain amount of carbs. It's what made keto popular originally and there's no limitation though on like the quality of food, the type of food.

Like when I was doing it, I was eating literally this like carb quick stuff that was low carb and it was literally like the first ingredient is like gluten. There's something about diet quality. There's something about like whole foods. It's, they have all these Atkins bars and that are made with all these, you know, processed ingredients. So, it's keto without any, yeah, stipulation about that. Compared to paleo, which could be keto if you eat ketogenic foods on paleo, but paleo would be about, you know, whole foods based, no, well, so no dairy and a lot of paleo and Atkins is often high in dairy. No dairy, no grains, no legumes, you know, no sugar, processed foods, et cetera. It's interesting. We should make like a painting of like how they all overlap.

Barry Conrad
You know carnivore is carnivore quite similar to keto then because it's like protein and fat.

Melanie Avalon
Really? Carnivore is keto. So like carnivore is keto, but keto isn't necessarily carnivore.

What do you mean? So if you're keto, sorry, if you're carnivore, you are keto because you're not taking in any carbs. Keto was just about the carb number. So you could do, you could do keto and be eating leafy greens and dairy and well, like a dairy's carnivore. So you could be doing keto and eating a lot of leafy greens and be keto, but you wouldn't eat carnivore because you're having plants.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I get you. Okay. But I've never, yeah, I've just maybe, I don't know how I, how I'd go with Kiro.

Melanie Avalon
I'm dying to know what that would, yeah. Well, you have done it when you do, because you've done like PSMF, right?

Barry Conrad
So i have actually done it without really not like intentionally doing it so just cut cut carbs stick to protein and and fat or animal protein with the phone rather than trying to externally like try to find fat you know.

Melanie Avalon
So that's keto. Okay. Have you done it like multiple days in a row or would you do it as like, like a day, like a, you know, like a one-off type thing? I've done it like who?

Barry Conrad
a few days in a row, like maybe a couple, but not like a whole week or two weeks or anything like that.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yeah, I think that's probably the difference. You've had days that are keto, but you haven't done a keto diet where you're living in that world for an extended period of time.

Barry Conrad
like consistently to see what the results could be if I gave it a chance properly.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because I remember when I first started doing it, I was so excited because and this is the reason it was the gateway for me into an obsession with the science of diet and fat burning. I was so excited that I could get those keto urine sticks and measure ketones.

Hello, what's that? Keto urine sticks? Wait, is this new to you? Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to tell you. Okay, so when you first go into... When you first start a ketogenic diet or fasting, this can happen too, and you start producing ketones. At the very beginning, your body is not very efficient with those ketones and it actually wastes a lot of them rather than converting them into a type of ketone that you use for fuel. So you actually excrete a lot of... When you first go into ketosis, you start excreting ketones in your urine. So there are these urinary test strips and they show you if you're making ketones or not. And it can be confusing for people though because when you first start, it'll be really high and then the longer you do it, you might stop... It'll be less in your urine or you might even... I mean, to probably still register it, but you might not. So people think that they're not in ketosis as much or they're not burning fat and that's not true. It's just that your body isn't wasting the ketones anymore. It's using them.

Barry Conrad
Do you know what my initial thought was when you told me about the urine strips?

Melanie Avalon
I literally have no idea. Wait, I'm trying to think, like, what...

Barry Conrad
like to do like a pregnancy test that's like the, you know, it's just, it's just funny. It's a funny visual for, I don't know why that may be laugh.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, glad that now everybody has this visual of me taking it. Well, it's funny. So one of the shocking moments I have, because at the beginning, okay, well, let me backtrack. The reason I thought it was so exciting was it was like, oh, now I don't have to question am I burning fat, I can literally check. Like I can see on this test strip. So that was very exciting.

And, but then I remember one time I got, so I was doing a keto diet and I would be testing my urinary ketones all the time. And then I went to, oh wait, do they have IHOP in Australia? They should. It's international.

Barry Conrad
I do like it. I do love IHOP. But why were you there? Why were you there? That's not a melody.

Melanie Avalon
Because I, okay, because I went, I wasn't paleo first, paleo didn't come into later, I was keto and Atkins, which like I said, you can eat anything as long as it's certain amount of carbs. So I was still eating like, my order of progression was keto and Atkins, then I found fasting, I wasn't paleo yet, then I found paleo.

So I didn't clean up my, like, quote, clean up my diet for non-processed foods until the third era of my dietary evolution. And honestly, I remember I was, I was fasting, I was doing keto, I was like, it's not going to make much difference if I only eat whole foods, like, what difference will that actually make? Middle, big difference.

Barry Conrad
So hold on, so when at IHOP, what would you like give us an example of what you would have then versus something you definitely wouldn't like even consider now?

Melanie Avalon
So this is the thing. So when I was in my keto Atkins phase at IHOP, I ordered an omelet, which is like eggs, bacon, cheese. Like it should be very keto, right? Like you would think.

I ate the omelet. I went home, I tested my urinary ketones and they were gone. And I was like, what happened? And that's when I found out that IHOP puts pancake batter in their omelets.

That's so dumb. Why would they do that? Make them taste better, I guess. But I was like, how do they not tell you? I mean, I wonder if they tell you that now because I haven't been in IHOP in forever. But back then you could just I mean, maybe they say it on the menu. But I just remember thinking I was like so safe, so good with my keto omelet. And then.

Barry Conrad
Nope. Yeah, because the omelet, it's like, it's definitely keto. That's what I think of as keto.

Melanie Avalon
Not when you add pancake batter to it, sneakily.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny that i can just pick because i'm picturing you sitting in an i hope it's just fun it's a funny visual cuz it's just not is not a melanie place now the melanie i know anyway.

Melanie Avalon
What's funny is all my memory, like when you say IHOP or Denny's, all I can think is 3am, probably wearing like a sparkly cocktail dress, being high on life with my fellow early 20 year olds, living our best lives and eating horrible, greasy food at, you know, a diner in LA. That's what I think.

Barry Conrad
You said Denny's, we had Denny's in New Zealand and it's the best ever. It's like exactly what you said. It's like 24 hours and it's like the whole two AM, three AM thing. Same thing.

Melanie Avalon
after the parties and that food tasted so good and so bad for you. Like just the memory I'm getting hit with right now is I remember, so when I went to USC, there was a Denny's like right by all of our housing. So the memory I have right now is it was at my film fraternity party, it was a dinosaur themed party. So it was me and my two friends all in dinosaur outfits. I think I painted my face with like green glitter and was wearing like a glittery green cocktail dress and something else to look like a dinosaur. So I just have a memory of that.

And my friend Matt and his like yellow dinosaur outfit, he actually got like a dinosaur outfit. And then I don't think Carmen was dressed up. And then we were just at Denny's. Like that's what I get hit with. Good times.

Barry Conrad
Do you have, is there photo we need to see a photo of?

Melanie Avalon
There is a photo. Yeah. Do you want to see it? I'll send it to you.

Barry Conrad
I do wanna see it, that's funny.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, do I not have my photos anymore? Because I lost my Facebook. Oh, no. Well, it's in my scrapbook. So I'll take a picture of it for my scrapbook and send it to you. Do you have a scrapbook?

Barry Conrad
I don't have a- is this an app where you're talking about an actual old school scrapbook?

Melanie Avalon
That's such a cute question. And so sad.

It's such a sad question. Like, it's so sad that now we are in this world where something like scrapbooking it's like, is it an app, you know, like just how far we've come from like the visceral, tangible, these are real, these are real scrapbooks like books, because they can't take that away from me.

Barry Conrad
You know, I used to always keep like a diet, like a diary, like a not not just like a diary, like, you had to plan out things I used to like write at old school, but now I just someone gave me one for Christmas. I'm just I'm just not going to use it.

So I did the whole Melanie, Evelyn mind blown decluttering thing and just tossed it out. I'm not going to use it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait, you throw you throw away the unused one, not not like your one with writing in it. Yeah, the unused one. Yeah. Do you have diary like journals diaries that have writings in them?

Barry Conrad
I actually think you know how we talked about how I had some stuff at like an older house. I think there's a box full of older diaries still there. I'm pretty sure.

Melanie Avalon
It is the best when you find those. When I was going through all my stuff moving, I found so many journals and diaries from my five-year-old self, middle school self.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like a time a time capsule like I thought this like I had this it's so weird in a good way

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's.

Barry Conrad
It's wild. If I interrupted you, Holden, you said scrapbook, so tell me about scrapbook.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, no, just I can take a I'll take a picture of my dinosaur outfit. Oh, I was asking you if you scraped books, if you had scrapbooks.

Barry Conrad
No, no, no, it's not, it's not a BC thing. It's not, I don't know. I just, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
You don't have a whole set of scrapbook materials. You should see my scrapbook material closet. There's a lot.

Barry Conrad
You have a scrap material closet?

Melanie Avalon
yeah, paper, stickers, all the photos. I'm sad because I finished my college scrapbook, college one, like it's done.

And I have a Disney one that's like pretty much done. And then I have a life one that I never finished and then like life got too busy. And maybe I need somebody to do it for me, but I get really into it.

Barry Conrad
Maybe this is a sign that you haven't thought about it in a while, so maybe you should get back into it.

Melanie Avalon
I just don't think, I don't know if I have time. Sad day.

Barry Conrad
What about during your cry?

Melanie Avalon
I'm like, bring all my little supplies with me.

Barry Conrad
Habit stacking, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Awesome. Okay. So does that all make sense now? Like Atkins, keto, paleo, carnivore? Are you going to try keto? Are you going to get some urine sticks?

Barry Conrad
No, no, I'm not going to hit the urine sticks. No, that's, that's a no for me for that, but you know, but I will, I will say that I'm going to intentionally now more approach it and see how I go.

See if I feel any different for starters and then see if it physically affects me like in terms of like how quick I drop weight or water or whatnot over like a longer period of time, we'll see.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you'll have to definitely let us know. Okay, sounds good. How did we start talking about this? Oh, because of your study that you found. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
but no keto urine sticks for me. I'm good.

Melanie Avalon
Barry is not in. Well, if you do want some, I can send you some.

Barry Conrad
I feel like a package from Melody.

Melanie Avalon
hear you. Wait a minute. Okay. I have ideas.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. I'd probably laugh if you did send it to me like, Okay, I guess I have to try it now.

Melanie Avalon
Surprise. So OK, shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. To start things off, we actually have two related questions. And it relates to a prior episode we did. Last episode, we went through a Facebook post from my group, IF Biohackers. And it was everybody commenting on things they struggle with with fasting. And a few people said that binging was a problem for them. So we wanted to address that here and then also read some questions we've also had about that.

So Michelle sent us an email. And the subject is binge eating. And Michelle says, long story short, I lost approximately 90 pounds last year. Wow. Working out two to three times a day and eating around 1,500 calories under 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of sugar. That reminds me really quick, Barry. I don't think I define the amount of carbs that qualifies as keto. So Atkins considers it 20 grams or less of net carbs. And net means you subtract fiber. But sometimes it's put in percentages and people say different amounts. But in general, it's usually around 20 grams. So that's nothing. Yeah, it's not much. Oh my goodness. I'm getting so many flashbacks to my keto Atkins days. Like the recipes I would make, I would get like blocks of cream cheese.

Barry Conrad
I love cream cheese.

Melanie Avalon
I know and put like Splenda in them because this was pre-paleo and just make like icing.

Barry Conrad
just eat it? That sounds good. That sounds really good.

Melanie Avalon
And I would make like, I would get cream cheese and I would make like Alfredo type sauces and just eat like chicken and Alfredo. Oh, so good.

Oh, and I would get these Shirataki noodles. Do you know about those?

Barry Conrad
I do. They're really delicious.

They're really good. You like them? And there's actually a store, literally, I'm not even lying, like downstairs from this apartment block that like an Asian grocer and stuff, and they sell all of that. I just had a look yesterday.

Melanie Avalon
Do they, the ones in Australia, do they smell, because like for me, when you open the bag, they smell like formaldehyde. Like literally smell like formaldehyde.

Really? Yeah, do the ones there smell like that?

Barry Conrad
Not not from what I can remember. I don't think so. Maybe here of a sensitive nose.

Melanie Avalon
This was a thing because I because you had I'd like Google it and people talk about how to get rid of the smell. You had to like dump the water, boil it like a lot and then coat it heavily.

And maybe maybe it's gotten better now.

Barry Conrad
Maybe they've improved. Sniff it in the store. People are like, are you okay, sir?

Melanie Avalon
You know what that would wreck my gut if I had those right now They're like basically just indigestible fiber

Barry Conrad
Yeah you changed your diet up a lot from what you said so no stay away from those.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I remember I used to get, okay, so similar to sirotaki noodles. Have you heard of konjac flour or glucomannan? Okay, wait, there's two different things. They might be the same thing. I'm not sure.

It was this powder that you could add to liquids and it would gel it up and I would get these Atkins shakes that were like no calories but like chocolate or vanilla and then I would add this powder to it and it would turn it into like a pudding and it would be so good and then I would literally be in pain for like a day and then I would get over it and then I would just rinse and repeat like it was so so messed up.

Barry Conrad
Like you're self-sabotaged but you just can't get away, you just can't jump off that train.

Melanie Avalon
So in any case, keto tends to be like 20 grams of carbs.

Barry Conrad
You're a real chemist. You really made all these recipes.

Melanie Avalon
I would make my own version of chicken teriyaki, and I would get liquid Splenda and make teriyaki sauce. I did a lot.

Barry Conrad
Splendid though, is that like the sugar alternative? I've never actually tried that before, ever.

Melanie Avalon
artificial sweetener. I thought it was the best of the best back before I realized how toxic they all are.

So Michelle says she lost 90 pounds working out two to three times a day, eating around 1500 calories, under 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of sugar. I was mentally and physically the healthiest I ever had been. When I started my first year teaching, I started getting out of the routine. By the time May of this year came around, I was burnt out. I was dealing with a burnout, a breakup, a job transition, and applying for grad school. As a person with generalized anxiety, I thrive on consistency. This summer put a huge toll on me and I believe I fell into a depression. I started rewarding myself with bad meals frequently and became too tired to work out. I've gained about 20 pounds back, but overall my issue is binge eating. I will eat when I'm not hungry and make myself miserable. Sometimes I feel like I do it because I'm scared it's not going to be there later on. I'm not sure why. I didn't grow up neglected or it's emotional eating, feeling a void, and overall my family is very overweight. I also take Vyvanse to help with binging. I'm just at the point where I am feeling defeated. My gut health is in terrible shape and I know I just need to get back into getting healthier. I used a 16.8 window on and off last year and I believe it helps. Any advice on binging? And then Noreen, she posted in Facebook, she said, oh and I think this was from that chain we went through. She said, I became so focused on the clock that I forgot to listen to real hunger. This has led to binging. I started IF to lose 20 pounds. It worked until this happened and now I'm still fasting and I have the extra 20 pounds. It took six months to lose. I maintained 1.5 years. I've struggled the past two years. I don't listen to my body's cues anymore. Every day I say I'm going to. I work out hard at the gym, lifting and cardio, 70-30. I'm strong and lean underneath 20 pounds of fluff. So binging. Barry, do you have thoughts on this topic?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I, I like to like addressing kind of both individually. Can I do that? Or do you want me to summarize what I? Sure. Yeah. I mean, Michelle, like what you're saying, it's, it's stressful, like the emotional toll of everything, like the burnout, the transition and everything. And it makes total sense that your team's gonna, it's gonna get thrown off. You're human. The fact that you're even thinking about how to get back on track shows just how much you care about your health.

So don't underestimate that. I mean, binge eating is super tricky because it's never, it's never just about the food. It's a combination of a few things is physiology, psychology, the habits that are built up over a long time. And what I'm hearing you saying is that you were in such a structured discipline place before, like you're working out two, three times a day, eating a very specific way, keeping your carbs and your sugar pretty low, and then life just sort of hit you pretty hard. And when that kind of structure suddenly disappears, Michelle, like your brain tends to swing the other way to compensate. And it's like, hold on, you know, we're operating under all these tight rules. And now things just feel like way out of control. So let's just grab whatever we can eat on the go. So I think the key here is to look at why the binging is happening. And you mentioned sometimes feeling like you need to eat because the food might not be there later. I've had thoughts like that before as well. Like maybe let me just sort of eat for the future. And that's just not, you don't need to do that, even though you didn't grow up in a food insecurity. That right there tells me like your brand, it's still wide in a scarcity mindset when it comes to eating, which is something a lot of people experience after, especially a long periods of restriction. So it's not even necessarily a conscious fear. It's just this like a deep rooted drive that says stock up now while you can. And then, of course, there's the emotional side, which is like filling a void and using food as a comfort mechanism, which again is is a big thing for a lot of people, especially when stress and exhaustion piles up. So I guess where do we go from here, Michelle? I guess one of the biggest things is shifting the way you're looking at structure. So it sounds like you thrive in a routine. Same. And fasting definitely gives you some of that. So maybe bring back that 16 eight window, for example, maybe that could help, but not in a restrictive way. So instead of thinking of I can't eat outside this window, try reframing it as this is when I feel my best eating. This is when I can eat. That small shift in mindset makes a huge difference. And within that, focusing on nourishment rather than restriction is going to be your friend. So if your meals are built around protein rich nutrient dense foods, that's going to help stabilize your blood sugar and and actually help with those binges.

Barry Conrad
Michelle, because binging isn't just mental. It's also literally blood sugar and satiety issue as well. So if your body isn't getting what it needs on the regular, it's going to push you towards those massive cravings. And I have to mention gut health as well, because you said your guts is like a mess right now. And honestly, I think that could be playing a bigger role than maybe you realize, because there is a big gut brain connection. And when your microbiome is off, it can actually increase stress and anxiety. And it becomes the cycle where like, if your gut health fuels your mood imbalances, which feels binging, which then leads like to gut issues. So bringing in maybe like fermented foods, you know, omega threes, making sure you're giving your gut that right environment is going to help. I mean, finally, I would say like, back on track, you know, that same back on track, like it doesn't mean going back to where you were a year ago. I mean, you made so much progress. It's about creating something that fits into your life now, Michelle, and that supports you instead of like controlling. You already know what works. Now it's just about finding a way to do it that doesn't feel so extreme and constricting. And Melanie, what do you think about that? I mean, what are your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
I love everything you said so much. So I love that you touched on the part about having the eating for the future. I think that happens a lot with people, not even just with binging, but with people with intermittent fasting. They think that because they're fasting, yeah, they have to stock up on food because they're going to be fasting. So having a reframe there of, like you said, this is when you feel best to eat, and you get to eat again tomorrow, like the next day, if you're doing a fasting protocol, just remembering that I think is so important.

The gut health piece, so I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to mention this. I interviewed, again, Dr. Stephen Gundry. I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes that was on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. One of the things I really liked that we talked about, and this was for his newest book called The Gut Brain Paradox, and it's about the connection between our microbiome and our gut. He makes the case that the concept of intuitive eating, for example, might not even be, I don't want to say not possible, but our gut microbiome largely determines our cravings. So the intuitive thing to do if our gut microbiome is out of whack and used to eating things that are not in our favor, the intuitive thing is to eat those things because that's what the microbiome is telling you. So if you get into a binge type cycle where you're binging on a lot of unhealthy foods, your microbiome is going to start craving that and tell you to eat more. The way out of that is to stop eating those foods and change what you're eating and your microbiome will actually change. It can change pretty fast. So I guess just knowing that these cravings you're having for certain foods may, like Barry said, and I just touched on, they may be coming from a gut microbiome that's a little bit out of whack, but you can definitely change it for the better. And we'll put a link in the show notes to that episode with Dr. Gundry. One thing else that I think is really important is on the one hand, I do think that there is usually behind binging habits, it's a psychological piece like Barry was saying. So could be something from your childhood, some sort of trauma, like it's probably coming from an emotional place. At the same time, I love the work of Glenn Livingston. He originally wrote a book called Never Binge Again. His newest book is called Defeat Your Cravings. And I've had him on the shows a few times, but most recently we had him on this show for episode 356. So either go to show notes, which will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 423, or go directly, so it uses link instead, or go directly to ifpodcast.com slash cravings. And you can get his book for free there. But his whole thing that I love so much is that yes, even if there are these emotional things behind everything, even if it's from childhood, like it literally doesn't, not that it doesn't matter, but to make change, you can you can quickly and rapidly make change if you have a mindset shift where you just say no.

Melanie Avalon
His whole thing, I've talked about it a lot in the show before, but he calls it like the pig. So you call this, you call this voice inside of you that's telling you to eat, you call it something else that's not you. He calls the pig, but you can call it whatever you want. You basically learn to that you don't have to listen to it.

And I know it sounds so simple to say you just stop binging. That's the concept. Like you don't like you don't like contemplate it. You don't like wonder where it's coming from. You don't like try to reason with it. You don't try to like logic your way out of things. You literally just say no. And I'm way oversimplifying it. But it's an incredible approach. And it has radically changed so many people's lives. So I would definitely, definitely get his book ASAP. Again, you can get it for completely free. Just go to ifodcast.com slash cravings, and you can get it there. So that might help I think for both of them.

Barry Conrad
It's awesome, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, all right any other thoughts for those

Barry Conrad
you know with yeah with Noreen I you know thanks for being so honest and vulnerable about this you know I think a lot of people relate and the fact that you lost 20 pounds and maintained it over like a whole year is massive and one of my personal mentors that I actually use in life is I have done it I can do it and I will do it again so you don't have to worry about that but I know that the last couple of years I felt like a struggle so take a breath in let's zoom out for a second you know you you mentioned that you're strong and you'll lean but underneath that 20 pounds and first of all that's amazing the fact that you you're lifting and doing cardio you're showing up for your workouts that's great it says a lot but I reckon it might be time to maybe shift a little bit like starting to ask again reframing things like am I hungry right now am I just watching the clock rather than paying attention to how I feel you know and with binging as Melanie and I bursted before it's it's often from restriction physically or mentally especially for too long and you're trying to white knuckle your way through it and at what might help us maybe go into a 18 maybe go from 18 6 to like a 14 10 even for a little bit like give yourself permission to eat when you're hungry focus on that because you're you're also lifting a lot and doing cardio and gymming like that put stress on your body the good kind of stress but you need to feel yourself properly as well you know so under feeling or inconsistent feelings gonna spike those cravings and when you prioritize protein healthy fats and carbs after that's gonna help you I mean last thing I would say Noreen is just give yourself some grace you know like the hardest part is showing up and just be willing to change things just change your mind reevaluate reset you've got this you know you're more in tune than you think so keep us posted with how it goes now what do you reckon

Melanie Avalon
I love everything you said so much yeah people you really do have this and i love what you said about i do the same thing so when you're saying that you. You can do it because you've done in the past something i often tell myself is.

You only have to do something once to do it a million times because if we haven't done something before it's scary and i might seem like we can't do it but once you've done it once you can do it a million times cuz you know you've done it so. You know tackling these things in your own at your own pace and one thing at a time just know that you you've done it before you can keep doing it going forward so definitely let us know both Michelle and arena how it goes.

Barry Conrad
Please do. Good luck and keep us posted. We're rooting for you.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Shall we have our hypothetical, magical, not real, fake, but also real breaking of our fast?

Barry Conrad
I'm so ready and I'm hungry too. It's now Melanie and Phyllis is out there just to give you some inside baseball.

It's 12 p.m. here in Australia right now. Melanie, what time is it where you are? Nine o'clock p.m. That's so crazy. There you go. Just a bit of insight.

Melanie Avalon
I know I call you Australia when I'm, if I'm like saying that I have a, if I like can't do something with somebody, I'm like, I, I'm like, I'm, um, got my Australia tonight.

Barry Conrad
That's pretty funny. That's hilarious.

Melanie Avalon
talking with Australia. I love it. Works well. Works well with our, it's a good thing I have such a crazy circadian rhythm.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Otherwise you'd be like, it's too late. Can we do like one PM my time?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know what we're going to do when you move to the US, so I have to figure that out.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what are we going to do? We can do it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah we'll figure it out okay so well I'm inspired because our last our last episode you gave me the green light to do Disney restaurants.

Barry Conrad
Of course, let's do it. I was hoping that you'd bring another one.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to like slowly, I mean, I know you're already on board, but I'm going to make, I'm going to turn Barry Conrad into an Epcot like fanboy by the time we move here and then you're just going to have to go. So let me send you the link.

Actually let me explain first. So this menu is not, okay, let me explain. One of my favorite restaurants in Epcot, which to recap, Epcot is the experimental prototype community of tomorrow, one of the four Disney World Parks. And it has an area called the World Showcase where there are 11 countries in a row. Each country is, it looks like you're in that country. The people who work there are from that country, they're dressed up, there's like restaurants and stores. Some have rides. It's incredible. And the restaurants are just really amazing. And they're very authentic. So actually I'll save it. It's like the Mexican restaurant, for example. It's like authentic Mexican. It's not like Tex-Mex, like American food. One of my favorites is called the Beer Garden Restaurant. It's in Germany. And it is set up to look like, it looks so cool, Barry, like you could Google it. It looks like you are at an outdoor, like in Germany, outside, but you're inside. But it looks like it's outside and it looks like it's nighttime. And it looks like there's like buildings and everything and then there's a big stage. And they do like a show every night, like multiple times. And they do like a beer garden show with like music and Lederhosen and singing and like cheers and it's the most best time. And then there's a buffet of German food that you get food from.

Barry Conrad
I'm looking at photos right now, Mel. It looks awesome. It looks epic.

Melanie Avalon
Doesn't it look so cool?

Barry Conrad
All the lights in there, it's amazing, it's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
And it literally feels like you're outdoors, but it's indoors. It's so cool. I love it. It's wonderful.

And then the show. So I set you the list of what they have on the on the buffet. So what all would you eat from the buffet here? Let me turn it to dinner.

Barry Conrad
Lunch menu. Okay, let's turn to dinner.

Melanie Avalon
And it's a partial listing. So these are like the main things that they always have, but then they'll have, they probably have like double this, but they'll have specific things that night. So these are the staples.

So actually I can read the staples. So like the staples, they have seasonal salads, rotisserie chicken, potatoes, schnitzel, traditional sausages, sauerkraut, schnitzel, noodle gratin, and assorted desserts.

Barry Conrad
What would I have? I would, I would have all, I don't know what's that's all is and noodle grats and what are those smells, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So this is so funny to me. So my family is German. We would go to Germany a lot growing up, and my dad took me to Germany when I was five. And I remember being so upset because like when I first went with my dad, all he fed me over there in Germany was bratwurst, like bratwurst and vice first, which is like white bratwurst. And I mean, I liked bratwurst, but I didn't like love bratwurst. Like it wasn't my favorite thing.

And then I realized when I was older that they had this thing called schnitzel. I know you asked about schnitzel, but they have schnitzel, which is basically like fried chicken and it's delicious. And this was before my like dietary changes. And like half of the time it's like stuffed with cheese. And I was like, dad, how, like parents, how are you like only feeding me bratwurst when I could have been having this like amazing fried chicken and fried ham schnitzel or like schnitzel, which is like a pasta dish. It has like eggs and flour and milk and butter. It's usually when I've had it, like when I had it there, it was always warm. Sometimes it has like a sauce on it. It's really usually really yummy. Sometimes it has like a cheesy sauce. It's really good.

Barry Conrad
I'm Googling a photo of it. Ah, this looks really good. It almost looks like macaroni and cheese vibes, like in terms of creamy, ta-da-da, na?

Melanie Avalon
It's like that without being super cheesy but it's like very creamy and I wasn't sure what noodle gratin was. I looked it up and literally Disney World comes up so I feel like they came up with it.

I don't know. It looks like it's um potatoes or gratin but with noodles instead.

Barry Conrad
So I would go off this buffet list, pretty much everything there. I would try everything there.

So the seasonal salads, rotisserie chicken, potatoes, schnitzel, for sure. By the way, Melanie, schnitzels are massive in Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? Yeah. Wait, is it the same thing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like chicken snitty. You want to get a chicken snitty? We said chicken snitty.

Melanie Avalon
don't have that here in the US. Even when I say fried chicken, I realize I'm glad you I'm glad you're saying this because when I say fried chicken, it's not what Americans are thinking up.

It's like, it's like a fried patty like, like a fried no, how do I say it?

Barry Conrad
It's like breaded as well, right? It's not like, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's like taking a chicken breast and breading it. So it's flat and square, usually. It's not like fried chicken, like Kentucky fried chicken. It's not like that. It's like pounded, usually.

Barry Conrad
It's actually really good. Actually, you saw right. I've never seen it in America. It's not a thing there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, which is like so weird because it's very in line with what we would like here. Something strange that it hasn't taken off.

Barry Conrad
I also didn't know you were German learned something again about you didn't know i did not know that till now there we go.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just think it's so funny, though, that my parents, like, why were they making me eat bratwurst the whole time when I could have been having schnitzel and spatzel?

Barry Conrad
traditional sauce, just sauerkraut nuts, so I mean, it could take it to leave it for me. I want to try the spazzle and I want to, out of curiosity, try the noodle gratin, whatever that is. Yeah, what about you?

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's funny, it's funny how far I've come with sauerkraut. So I remember being again, growing up German, being so grossed out by sauerkraut and thinking like how horrible and disgusting it looked. And now I'm like, I think it's like the best thing ever.

And it's so good for your gut microbiome, you know, fermented. I would eat probably eat the, well, they have allergy friendly options. So I would ask for allergy friendly versions of, I probably just eat the chicken and sauerkraut.

Barry Conrad
Really? What about the traditional sausages? Is that too much from your past? No more. I'm done with that.

Melanie Avalon
I would like to try it. It's just with the sausages, you don't really know what all is in there. So I wouldn't know if it had a lot of like sugar added and stuff. If I knew it was like just sausage, I would definitely like to try it.

But the good thing, the one thing I love about Disney is they are very good at working with dietary restrictions. They're like all about it. They'll like give you a tour. So like when you I've been given the tour at the buffet, they'll like come out and they'll tour you through the buffet and point at what is on your diet or not. It's crazy.

Barry Conrad
That's really good. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
I do too, but they're Disney.

Barry Conrad
What about the assorted dessert? What kind of desserts do they have, do you know?

Melanie Avalon
It's been so long. I'm trying to remember if I remember anything. I've been there so many times though. I do know I feel like there was like a pudding that was good, but they probably change it now.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I wonder like I'm part German, but don't really know it. Yeah, but I don't know anything about that, but it's not really a cultural thing.

So I don't know what sort of desserts to expect the German type motif. I don't, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Well, so I'm looking at pictures and it looks like they have, these are just pictures on Google. I see some, let's just look up common German desserts, because that's probably what they have, common German.

So common German desserts are things like, I don't know how to say these words, chocolate, lebuken. There's some sort of chocolate cakes, plum tarts, cookies, stolen, they probably have that. It's like a bread that has fruit in it, kind of like fruit cake, but not really. It's harder, has fruit and nuts and spices and then icing on it.

Barry Conrad
They got cheesecakes. I'm looking at, there's quite a few German cheesecakes. Is that a thing there? Quite big? Yeah. I'm all for the dessert, so let's do it. I'll try the assorted.

Melanie Avalon
I will watch you have them. I will, this is what we can do. I think this will be fun.

You can get all of them, and then I will tell you which ones I think I would like. And then you can try them all and let me know which ones you like, and then we'll compare notes.

Barry Conrad
And then you'll try some too? Okay, what else would you like to try? There's some beverages there. How about beverages?

Melanie Avalon
So they do have a Pinot Noir from Germany, I would have to look it up and see if anything's organic. Would you get some beer?

Barry Conrad
I would in the theme of being at this place for sure, and I'm not normally a beer guy, but I'm definitely gonna have some beer here because I saw it in the photo too. So I'm like, yeah, I'll do that.

Melanie Avalon
You've got to have it because during the show they do this whole thing where they like sing and then they're like Broast and everybody like like broasts and everybody sings the thing together. Oh and they do that.

They do the um The chicken song what's that like that? Dada? Dada? Dada? Dada? Dada? Do you know that song? Yeah, I have cool it. Dada. Dada. Dada. Dada. Yeah, they do that and like everybody sings it Apparently, it's I guess it's german. I don't know

Barry Conrad
Would you get a beer as well to try it on up.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no. I, yeah, I don't like beer. I like active, not only, I mean, it has gluten in it, but I actively dislike beer. Like I dislike it.

Barry Conrad
Whoa, why? Why actively? It's like quite, you know.

Melanie Avalon
I know. And I like most foods and drinks.

I just don't like the taste of it. Well, what's interesting is I do have a gluten and a wheat sensitivity. And so it's literally just brewed wheat. So I think my body is telling me that I should not be eating it.

Like my body does not like wheat. Fair enough. So I don't like the taste.

Barry Conrad
You know, Mel, I don't like, I'm not a beer guy, but while I was moving, I bought, I bought a six pack. That says a lot, right? You got to. I did it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it like blows my mind like I can't wrap my mind around enjoying the taste of beer and I like I know people like crave like a cold beer on a summer day and like literally that sounds miserable sour beers. If I had to, I do a sour beer.

Do they have a sour beer? What's that? It's kind of more like wine.

Barry Conrad
Is it a brand or is that a type of beer?

Melanie Avalon
No, it's a type of beer. I don't see one. So I actually, I worked in a beer bar. That was my first serving job.

So I learned a lot about beer, which was helpful, even though I don't drink it. So sour beers are kind of, they're very like fruity and they're, yeah, they're more like wine. You would, you should keep your eyes if you see, like next time you go to a restaurant, like that has a lot of beer, see if they have a sour beer.

Barry Conrad
I did a couple of years ago when I went back to New Zealand for Christmas, this hotel invited me there for this beer tasting situation. It was really fun actually, because I don't normally drink beer, but they had like six to eight beers, and we just went through them all, and it was actually pretty interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Do they have one that was soury, kind of fruity?

Barry Conrad
Not sorry, but there were there were fruitier ones. Maybe it's maybe that's just a thing. I'm sure there is, though. It's Australia. Australia, we love our beer here. I'm sure there is.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Australia, I just find Australia so like interesting. Really? Yeah. Feel like everybody's like happy and hot and drunk and.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. And what's the alternative in America? Like what? Everyone's like at IHOP?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, because you guys seem like genuinely happy. Here, we're like happy, but also like have like a lot a chip on our shoulder, and our petty and then lots of different seasons.

So not just hot drinking on and off.

Barry Conrad
We have different seasons, but it's not just like so I feel like you feel like it's somewhere here all the time and everyone's like running around and like board shorts.

Melanie Avalon
I do feel that. That's probably completely wrong. I realize I have completely wrong perspective, but I'm just telling you my stereotype from my head.

Barry Conrad
So you wouldn't get so you wouldn't get a base on this menu here would you have a wine maybe a pinot noir.

Melanie Avalon
Maybe. I have to look up the two. They only have two right now. So maybe the Pinot Noir, this might be a sneak in my wine situation.

Barry Conrad
I really want to see this happen like the compartment, how you do it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, I will I will show you I'm not right now when I'm thinking about I'm thinking about because I haven't been to Disney since I started this. I'm trying to think about the security at the front. How that works.

I think I could do it. The bad that I'm telling like thousands of people this it's too late now. I'm just doing it to support my health. Yeah, it's health reasons.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I would get the Pinot Grigio, by the way, I get a glass of that

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I might have to look at the whites here. Yeah. So and to emphasize, friends, the importance of the eating window because the benefits of fasting are not just in the fast. You need that eating window to actually get all of the benefits.

So cheers to everybody. This was so, so amazing. Listeners, friends, if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can email questions at ipodcast.com, or you can go to ipodcast.com. You can submit questions there. And the show notes will be at ipodcast.com slash episode 423. To get that free defeat your cravings book, go to ipodcast.com slash cravings. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And we are I have podcast. So I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go

Barry Conrad
No, thanks again so much for tuning in everyone. You're awesome. Have an amazing rest of your day and we'll see you next time.

Melanie Avalon
I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
I think I'll talk to you then, bye.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

May 19

Episode 422 – Is Fasting Or Exercise Better?, Intermittent Fasting Struggles, How To Declutter, Can You Undo The Effects Of Exercise, Weekend Struggles, Finding The Window That Works For You, Can You Eat Whatever You Want?, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 422 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

SHOW NOTES


SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS


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PIQUE FASTING TEAS

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LINKS

IF Podcast Episode 402 

MABP Episode 255 

STUDIES

⁠⁠⁠Intermittent Fasting vs. Regular Exercise: Finding the Best Path to Optimal Health


If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)



Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 422 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of Avalon X and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 422 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
I'm doing really good actually although not an although and I'm in a selling things mode because I have to move house in like five days.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, what?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, my lease, the lease is running out. So in about five days, the cleaner comes in like six days.

So I've got to, I'm selling some stuff off because as you would know by now, by the time this airs is I am going to America, but before that I'm going, I've got to play in Melbourne called destiny. So have to move offload some stuff, sell some things off. I've got a place to go to for a one bedroom apartment for the next six weeks that I have locked in, but then I have to find one more spot before I head to Melbourne. So kind of in like logistics, boring life admin stuff, but it's, it's kind of, it's kind of stressful trying to sell things like, do you have, do you have a gum tree in America? It's kind of like you sell things like furniture or stuff that you want to get rid of real quick, like, you know, you know what I mean? Like that kind of vibe.

Melanie Avalon
We have stuff like that, like Facebook Marketplace. I don't know. I haven't, yeah. You know what? We might have it. Do we have that? Could I be using that? What's it called?

Barry Conrad
Gumtree, maybe it's just an Australian thing, but gumtree.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, Australia's free marketplace. Number one, classified ads in the UK. Yeah, I don't think we have that here.

Barry Conrad
I've also put stuff on Facebook marketplace it's kind of I've gotten some interest yesterday for a couple things that's good so they might be picking up a like an entertainment. Like a TV unit thing tomorrow and then these coffee tables that I've got I'm also going to sell I basically want to sell everything because I want to start.

It's no point shipping coffee machines and things to America it's just stupid so I'll just start again over there so I'm just trying to basically get rid of everything real quick no that's like my life right now.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, I can't believe you're like present right now. Moving is so, at least for me, you probably handle it like a champ.

You probably take it the way you travel. Just bring it on. I would be so stressed if I was you is the point.

Barry Conrad
I'm trying not to feel it is a lot because the clock's ticking. So I've got, yeah, just about five days to go. So I've got to really, and on that as well, I got invited to this thing, Melanie. Maybe you can help me decide.

I'm pretty decisive about things, but I'm like, got invited to the show, which you would love to go to. Not going to say what it is just in case I don't go, but I'll tell you off here. It's like a musical, it's like going to be very fancy, high profile, red carpet situation, show after party. And that's in two days. And I have like a styling session tomorrow for that, for my outfit. But now in light of all this, I'm like, ah, I'm kind of like in two minds. Like, should I can that and just focus on this admin stuff or just kind of just go and just maybe that'll take the mind of things, you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's that's hard. Do you know what I mean? How good do you feel about getting everything done with moving and going?

Barry Conrad
Well, either way, I have like the events in a couple of days, but then I have like another 2.5 days to sell stuff or get things done.

So, and it's only at night, but I mean, it's still, I don't know. I think cause there's just so much on my plate right now, you know, when you get in those vibes where you feel there's so much to do, so you kind of feel guilty for doing, even though this has worked technically for me too, you know, but it's still like, I could be using those three, four, five hours for productive things, I don't know. It is productive, but you know what I'm saying.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, moving is such a, it's a rarer occasion, so there's a lot going on with you right now. But my point is if you don't go, it's not like it completely makes sense why you would not go.

Well, I'm sure you will make the decision that is right for you.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm already leaning towards not going so I think, well, I know I've decided I'm not going so after this I'm gonna let them know. Sorry, can't make it

Melanie Avalon
In real-time decision, I was here for it. I was sending you so many good vibes with moving because when I moved in the past, I like to reframe it as like a workout, like a really good workout, you know, because you're constantly like moving stuff.

I don't know, I think it's probably good for the body.

Barry Conrad
It is. And Mel, how do you get like, what's your process of getting rid of things? Because when you move, you realize how much stuff you don't wear or use instead. Like, do you sell things or do you just give it away to donation places? Like, what do you do?

What's your rule of keeping things? If you don't wear it for six months, you get rid of it. What's your, what's your situation?

Melanie Avalon
Well, funny you should ask, this was not planned. I'll put a link in the show notes to the Mindblown podcast episode number 12, declutter masterclass tips and tricks to instantly get rid of anything and clear your space in mind. It was so fun.

We went through literally what you just asked. We just went through ways to get rid of things, how to actually let things go. And there are so many, there's like so many tips and tricks and it's crazy how hard it can be to actually let go of things sometimes.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I agree.

Melanie Avalon
So something I do, this is not when I'm actually like trying to actively get rid of a lot of things, but I personally have a thing which is throw one thing away every day and I keep track on a calendar with sticker with Lisa Frank stickers. It's my Taylor Swift calendar and then I have Lisa Frank stickers and then every day I throw something away and I put a sticker on.

It's really helpful. It makes you realize

Barry Conrad
So one thing every day, so for example, what kind of things is it? Something small? Something big? It's hard.

Melanie Avalon
for me personally to get rid of stuff. So it can be anything. And it can be, okay, so like yesterday it was a random supplement that a brand sent me that I don't actually want or need. But it's like, I get all these products and I'm like, oh, but maybe I'll use it. And I was like, you know what, no, I don't, I'm not going to take this. So bye.

It can be things like I've slowly gotten rid of a lot of my extras of things like vases or even like silverware. I go through my books and try to get rid of books. Yeah, it's just whatever I can, it's even things like I'll go through my toolbox and try to throw away excess tools. Yeah, there's a lot of really good tricks you can use and listeners should definitely check out that episode. I'm trying to remember what some of them are. It's things like if you threw this away. Oh, this is something I love doing. This isn't exactly as applicable to your situation because this is stuff I try to do ongoing rather than if I'm actually moving. But something I like to do is, especially for clothing, I go through, I have a big trash bag. I put things in the trash bag that I think I can get rid of, but I'm struggling to get rid of. And then I just put them in the trash bag. And then I'm not throwing it away. I'm just putting it in the bag. And then a month later, if I can't remember what's in that trash bag, I just take it to goodwill. And I don't look at it again. It helps you get rid of stuff slowly without feeling like you're getting rid of it right now. Because then if you can't remember a month later, then might as well just take it. If you didn't miss it actively in that month space, does that make sense?

Barry Conrad
It does make sense, because then on that, it also makes me want to ask you, Mel, when it comes to packing for trips. I know you don't like to travel for long, but do you overpack or are you pretty good at just packing the right amount, like minimal situation?

Melanie Avalon
So, so, so. I am so proud of myself and my packing habits. I realized I don't ever really like forget anything now because I have a ongoing note. So I use the app EverNote, which is like all these different, you can just have like ongoing notes all the time. So I have my travel note, and I have everything on there that I'm taking. And I check it when I'm packing. And that has been so helpful for not forgetting things.

Here's the thing, Barry. So when you look at what I packed, it looks like I packed a lot, like it looks like a lot. And I use every single thing I packed. Like I don't, nothing is overpacked. It's not like I, it's not like I took something I didn't need. I actually use everything. I just need a lot of things.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean like what what's five things that you have to travel with Melanie Avalon has to have

Melanie Avalon
I mean, there's like 500, but all my supplements, my yeah, my supplements is a big part of it. My dry farm wines.

Barry Conrad
Yo, wines.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm

Barry Conrad
You can follow while you're really committed to the cause well.

Melanie Avalon
Yup, my outfits. There's a lot of stuff. Are you a minimalist traveler? And then my sister, she puts everything in one carry-on, blows my mind. What?

Barry Conrad
Yeah i can do that.

Melanie Avalon
She traveled around like Tokyo on like with like one carry-on how no idea. I have no idea

Barry Conrad
My clothes like a two bullet like that. My it's two. Yeah, it wouldn't fit in the one thing.

Melanie Avalon
Is it hard for you to get rid of stuff?

Barry Conrad
Well, I am just like I'm in the process. It's in real time, Melanie. This is happening at the moment. So I'm just starting to go through everything, getting rid of things whilst selling things, whilst donating things.

I mean, it's not hard. I just think that we're so spoiled in, you know, the Western society. Like, you know, we just have so much that we don't need. So I just want to get rid of stuff that I don't wear and use because it's just it's just clutter.

Melanie Avalon
There's so many just like little hacks, but one I really like is ask yourself, would I buy this now? Like so many things we actually hold on to because it gains value from us having owned it, but like if it was like on the rack now and you're at the store, would you buy it now?

Barry Conrad
Hmm, that's a good question to ask yourself actually.

Melanie Avalon
Or are you keeping things out of guilt? Like, are you keeping something because somebody gave it to you or like, you know?

Barry Conrad
Okay hold on one thing that definitely is hard for me is if someone gives you a gift like if it's from family like little thing I don't know would you throw that away or would you just keep it as like a keepsake even though you don't use it but you feel bad throwing it away or giving it away.

Melanie Avalon
I think it depends. So if it's something that you don't actually personally like, and it's not expensive, and literally all the value is because this person gave it to you, but you don't personally want or need it, then get rid of it.

The moment happened, the giving of it to you was the moment of them sharing the love with you, but it staying with you doesn't signify anything about their love for you now.

Barry Conrad
That was a really good, that was a really good share. Mic drop, sound bite right there. I'm going to use that when I can't wait to post that.

Melanie Avalon
Oh yeah, you can. Please do.

Barry Conrad
That's good. That's good. Well, this is so useful because I need I need all the intel right now to get rid of things.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay, listen to that episode because we have so many, we say so many things.

Barry Conrad
I think as well, like the things you take on a trip with you, I think usually the things that you kind of need or want most, everything else is kind of like excess, right?

Melanie Avalon
I thought about that. I'm like, Whoa, I'm like, if I what if somebody could just come in and like, get rid of everything except the stuff I take when I travel like I apparently survive on that. So do I need all this other stuff?

Actually,

Barry Conrad
Are you one of those females who have like a billion pairs of shoes and dresses and things like that? Like, what about that?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I'm not I'm not horrible with shoes. Like I'm pretty I have a lot of shoes, but I'm not it's not my vice of having too many of the problem is that the dresses like I have so many black dresses.

Yeah, it's not good to be pretty lightweight, though, the dress.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it wouldn't take up too much space, no?

Melanie Avalon
A lot of them are like prom dresses because you know, I love going to shows and wearing massive dresses. The dress I wore most recently a few days ago was massive.

Barry Conrad
You love, you actually do. You're right. You do the whole walk down the aisle thing. I know your thing, Melanie. You walk down the aisle. Hey, guys. Hey, friends.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So here's another one for clothing. If you are, especially with this release of fasting, so say you have weight loss goals or something and you have certain clothes that you're keeping that used to fit you but don't fit you now. So I always say just get rid of them now because then you're turning it into a win-win situation.

Because if you never end up being able to wear it again, there was no point in keeping it. But if you are able to wear it again, that means you hit your weight loss goal. So win. So it literally makes it a win-win and a win-win-win because now you're getting rid of some clutter. Don't keep the clothes that you're going to wear in the future. Keep what you want to wear now.

Barry Conrad
That's good. Yes.

Melanie Avalon
and use the sentimental stuff. So if you have nice plates or china and it makes you happy, use that as your main stuff and get rid of all your other stuff.

That makes me so happy. That's one thing I do.

Barry Conrad
I actually really agree with that, Melanie. I think like, why save nice stuff for like some day, some time, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Use it now. So you have to let us know what you what you find yourself struggling with with getting rid of stuff and what you learn and what tips you would like to share after having moved.

Barry Conrad
I'll let you know. I'll give you the update. This has been helpful. Thanks, Mel. Thank you for your pep talk on the moving and the moving hacks.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. Oh man, okay. Should we jump into some fasting related things?

Barry Conrad
So I brought a study this week. So the study I'm bringing today is called intermittent fasting versus regular exercise, finding the best path to optimal health. And this is by Dr. Venugopal Reddy, M. Raghgamdam Reddy in the Ovem Woman and Child Specialty Hospital in India. So it's a great study, and it's very on brand for me because I love my exercise, love my working out.

And it's really fascinating for me because it tackles one of the biggest questions in health and fitness. If you had to just pick one intermittent fasting or regular exercise, which one would you give the best long-term health benefits? So this really drew me to the study so much because of that reason. And more importantly, what happens when you combine those two things?

Melanie Avalon
Do they answer that? Do they say which one would be better if you have to pick one?

Barry Conrad
You're going to have to wait and see what I found.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man, okay. Wait, let me guess, combined together is the best, right? That's your guess? That combined is the best?

Barry Conrad
Okay, so you don't think just regular exercise on its own or intermittent fight?

Melanie Avalon
Well, so if the options are just fasting, just exercising or combined, what's best?

Barry Conrad
Uh-huh. Yeah, it's between those two. So just fasting, just exercise, or combining the two.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I would. I would guess that combining is the best.

Is this resistance exercise or cardio? You're gonna have to wait and see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, now I have myself questioning everything. So go ahead. I'm losing my sense of self here. Okay.

Barry Conrad
We already know that fasting and exercise have their own individual benefits. So what the study does really well is break down why they work, how they impact our bodies differently, and what's the best situation for optimizing our fat loss and longevity and metabolic health. So let's start with the fasting. So this study, Dr. Van Nuig-Gapal Reddy, he says that when you fast for extended periods, your body burns through its glycogen stores and switches to fat, metabolism, and ketogenesis and ketones. So ketones are more than just fuel. They're actively reducing inflammation. They protect our brain function. We know that they promote cellular repair. So it's not just how a lot of people say, you're just starving, you're just not eating. It's not just about fat loss. It's about metabolic efficiency, insulin sensitivity, and even anti-aging at a cellular level.

We know that, and that's been proven by the science. The study, this study highlights that fasting increases the growth hormone levels and reduces insulin. And it's also huge because high insulin levels are directly linked to metabolic syndrome, linked to obesity, diabetes, and then we know there's that magic thing called autophagy, which is our body's, I guess, natural recycling system. The fasting triggers a deep cellular clean. Listen as if you don't know what that means. It triggers a deep cellular clean, getting rid of damaged cells, reducing oxidative stress. It encourages regeneration. I love autophagy. And it's about basically giving our bodies a reset on a molecular level. Let's look at the exercise. So the study reinforces what we already know. That regular movement improves cardiovascular health, builds endurance and strength, and boosts our mental health by increasing endorphins. But the catch is exercise alone doesn't always lead to weight loss. This study highlights specifically that people unconsciously eat back the calories that they burn, which can stall fat loss or even lead to weight gain. So the big question, which one is better? So what I took away from this is the study found that the real magic happens when you, as Melanie guessed, combine fasting and exercise.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, you're such a teaser. I'm over here having like an existential crisis.

Barry Conrad
Is this going to be wrong? When your body's already primed for fat burning and you add exercise, it accelerates the process while preserving the muscle. So the combo, it enhances something that we call mitochondrial function, which is a pretty big factor in longevity and energy production. So your mitochondria, they're sort of like batteries for yourselves. So the better they function, the stronger, leaner, more energized we feel.

So the study does caution, though, if you're new to fasting, and he listens out there, jumping straight into a high-intensity workout situation on an empty stomach, if you're new to fasting, it might make you feel fatigued or sluggish at first. And I experienced that as well when I started fasting. But here's the interesting part. Over time, most people actually adapt and see improved endurance and fat burning efficiency when training fasted. The body learns to become more metabolically flexible, which means it can seamlessly switch between burning carbs and burning fat. So fasting and exercise, yes, they have their unique benefits. But together, they're seriously next level. So if you're looking to burn fat, maintain your muscle, improve your insulin sensitivity, optimize your brain function, this is the situation worth exploring. And honestly, it kind of aligns with what we see in longevity research so far and athlete performance, like metabolic flexibility, which means our ability to shift between the fuel sources. It's the key for long-term health.

And combining fasting with movement, movement, not just resistance training, not just cardio, but movement, it's basically how to train our bodies to become metabolic powerhouses. Mel, what do you think? And have you noticed a difference in your energy levels when you train fasted versus after eating?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. First of all, great find, great overview. That touched on so many things. Thank you.

Thank you. One present thought I'm really having about it is the question of, you know, what's better fasting or exercise, although it seems like together is really magical. I'm just thinking about how, A, I don't think there's an answer there. Really, there's not one answer there, but so much of it would completely depend on the individual. Like kind of like the example that you gave with exercise, people could do exercise in a way that actually makes them overeat and overcompensate and, you know, undoes the effects or they might over train or over exercise or with fasting though on the same thing they might, people might fast too much and create negative effects from it or not fast enough, but think they're fasting and then kind of similar to the exercise overcompensate when they eat. So it just is so, so individual.

As far as energy while fasting, yes, a hundred percent. It's so much better for me. It's interesting because I actually first noticed it when I went low carb because before I went low carb, which I'm not low carb right now, but when I first, before I went low carb, the idea of endurance of any sort was not something that appealed to me. I didn't like just like, I always felt like I would hit walls and I didn't have this natural inclination to like go, go, go. And then when I started doing low carb, I was like, Oh, cause then you tap into your fat stores and you unlock this consistent, seemingly unending source of energy when you're doing athletic activities. So that's when I really noticed it.

And then I noticed it even more when I started fasting as well. Now I get, I get tired once I, once I eat now. It's funny that I've like completely switched. I, I, before I started fasting, I used to think that fasting would be like a lethargic, tired state, but I find it to be quite the opposite.

Barry Conrad
It's so interesting because I had 200% agree with that.

Melanie Avalon
And I do think if I had to make generalizations or if I had to guess, I think it's more likely that people overestimate the benefit they're getting from exercise and overcompensate because of it compared to fasting and then overcompensating. Like if you're consistently fasting daily, it's hard to actually overcompensate a lot in your eating window. So, if you're fasting long enough every day with exercise, I feel like it's so easy for people to exercise and then they're like, okay, that earned my calories and then they eat more to make up for it. Like that's just so, so common.

Barry Conrad
You hear it every day you see here to the gym in the locker room you are here from people that i know it's like well now that we can have this you know massive meal now because we just did that workout will you you're kind of undoing all your hard work if you're not fasting and you know on the daily.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, something I like about fasting is it's almost protective of accidental undoing of it, if that makes sense. The very nature of it is providing a sort of clean slate and setting you up metabolically for when you do eat, which exercise can help with as well.

But I just think, like you just said, I think it's just so common for people to, I know that's what I used to do. I used to like go to the gym for like 30 minutes cardio and that's like, okay, now I can eat all the things. It's like, no, I don't think I was probably better off not even going to the gym, honestly, with that approach.

Barry Conrad
It's so funny because I can't even, not I can't, I can, but it's just I find it really hard to train after eating, you know, a lot of gym bros will be like, oh, bro, you need like have a banana or have like this, have that before you hit the gym, like you need your energy. I'm like, it's not an emergency to train faster, guys.

It's not. You'll be fine, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I used to think that I had to like, even if I wasn't hungry, it's like, Oh, I have to like eat to like fuel the run or fuel the the activity. But now that that actually just makes me feel more more sluggish.

Barry Conrad
Granted, Melanie, I am curious. I do think maybe it's a bit different if you're, for example, about to do a marathon or something like that. I think that's a very different scenario than just going to the gym on the daily. Like, I do think, I don't know if I would do that necessarily, necessarily faster. I'm not too sure.

I haven't explored that yet, but that's something that I might approach differently because it's something bigger, more expenditure, you know.

Melanie Avalon
100%. So I mean, like a concentrated endurance run, especially something like a marathon. I mean, that's like a whole nother. You have to have a whole approach to that.

Check out episode 402 of the show that we did. I interviewed Mark Sisson for his book, Born to Walk. And we dive deep into the, uh, the myth of the marathon. It will, it's mind blowing. It will change your mind potentially on a lot of things. What's the longest, have you done like any long sort of races?

Barry Conrad
I haven't done a marathon yet. I do want to take that off my bucket list for sure.

I've done, yeah, so the answer is no. I used to do a lot of long distance growing up. I feel like I'm better now with my hill sprints because of my one and a half long situation, but also I'm not going to make that like put a ceiling on what I want to do. So I'm going to, I'm going to do a marathon one day or half a half marathon. Both. What about you? Have you done any of those half marathon? No, any desire to?

Melanie Avalon
Nope. I did used to, so growing up when we would stay in Florida on Sanibel Island, most half of the days of the week, most many days, I would bike like 25 or 30 miles most days. Yeah. Because I would bike around the island, which was, if I went around the entire island, it was like 25 miles, I think. But yeah, I don't do that anymore.

That's my past. Yeah. I would like get the sun and...

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but you got your weight, you wear your weights and you go shopping at whole foods and you get your pounds and pounds of cucumbers, that's resistance training, you know, and cardio.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, thank you again for finding that study. It was super awesome. I really like how it went into all the benefits of the different ones.

And it's interesting like the overlap and how to get the best from both combines. So.

Barry Conrad
You guessed it though. You're like, so which one is it? I need to know. I was like, Melanie, wait, wait.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I was like, is this going to be a curveball? So confused. All right.

Well, speaking of curveballs, sort of, I posted a post in the Facebook group and the question was, friends, what has been the most difficult aspect of intermittent fasting for you? So I thought we could talk through these and see what, what people seem to struggle with. That sounds great. So most difficult thing for intermittent fasting. Janice says, finding the sweet spot. I began fasting and did great and had great body composition and perimenopause. Am I fasting too much? Too little? What's just enough? I can't keep the few pounds of extra fluff off these days. I'm seeing what people responded to that. And then so many people said that they agreed. Christine agreed. Norine said they experienced it as well. Christine, Norine, Karen, another Christine, like a different one. Meghan, Jane, Nydia, Marianne. Yeah. So it's a lot of people struggling with when they turned older. So like Nydia, when she turned 50. So Marianne suggested that people check out Mindy Peltz. She said she has great books and podcasts on this. We had Mindy Peltz on the show. So we can put a link to that in the show notes. I'm trying to see if we should like address this or just go through all of them.

Barry Conrad
Well, I think it's interesting because you were when you were talking about that, Melanie, I'm not a female, but I hear this so much and I see it so much. But then also the other camp is like, no, age is there's nothing but a number and you should just that's an excuse. So it's interesting how there's both camps.

What do you think? I mean, you're the female, you're more qualified to talk about that. But what do you think about that?

Melanie Avalon
I'll skim through the comments and I'll see if anybody else said this. Megan said perimenopause, I was fasting consistently and it was working and I loved it. And then one day I was like, don't tell me when to eat and I couldn't fast anymore. I'm assuming it was perimenopause because nothing else changed.

Nicole said she learned that fasting did not serve her well during perimenopause. She went from not eating until mid to late afternoon to now eating first thing in the morning and it has transformed her health and body composition. Tina also said perimenopause has really made I have challenging. I'm moving away from fasting and trying to focus on building muscle.

Barry Conrad
I love what Nicole shared down the bottom there. Which one? Nicole Bruce Bleak. She goes focus on protein intake and lifting weight is where the magic happens.

No more. Oh, okay. Maybe not. She goes, no more IFMA. I do think there is value in stopping food intake two hours before bed. Okay. So I just read the first part of that. Yeah, I don't.

Melanie Avalon
So, well, it's interesting. I think those are all the comments about perimenopause specifically.

There's a lot of comments about other things. I definitely think it's interesting because the hormonal changes when women are aging definitely have a huge, huge effect on this. And especially the perimenopause years when the hormones are really shifting around a lot. And we do know that once women intermenopause fasting can actually maybe be even better for them and easier for them to do, but that transition period can be tough. And well, first of all, I think women should do what works best for them. I think personally that there's a lot of good data and studies on fasting and how it helps regulate your hormones, helps with supporting your metabolic health. So I personally would rather than stop fasting, I would tune more into... I would look at fasting as a continued tool to combat that. Maybe you change your window around. Maybe you fast a little bit less. Definitely looking at food choices and supporting protein. I don't think... I guess basically you have to find what works for you, but I don't think you have to stop fasting while perimenopause. And I realize this question is about what do people find most difficult? And it sounds like that transition period is when a lot of women really struggle. So rather than stopping fasting, I would focus on the food choices and the activity and basically what all can you do to help support your hormones. So that's eating really nutritious food, eating whole foods, focusing on protein, getting daily exercise, getting sunlight exposure, social connection, all the things. Again, some people, maybe it's going to work to stop the fasting, but I don't think you have to necessarily.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's super interesting as a male to hear about that period that, because Melanie, you tell me, there's a specific age range where the perimenopause starts, right? Or it just varies for different women?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it varies. It just depends on your own, like your own body composition and everything. I know some women will say they don't even really experience symptoms. And then some do.

I do think if you're following an unhealthy lifestyle, eating a standard American diet, that that's probably going to make this whole transition a lot worse. I'm not an expert on it. That's why I interview experts like I did, like I said, Dr. Mindy Peltz, Cynthia Thurlow, the former co-host of the show was good at speaking about it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, super interesting. There's also so many more comments here where people find tough, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, so let's see other things we've got we've got weekends. That's a funny one. So

Barry Conrad
with a crying emoji. I love that. That's funny.

Melanie Avalon
One thing I love about fasting is you can really find a window that works for you. And so if you know that weekends are what you struggle with, like how can you take a moment not during the, not on the weekend when you're actually, when you're tempted with all the food and all the things, can you take a moment, you know, during the week, look at, okay, what's a schedule that's going to allow you to quote, you know, have your cake and eat it too.

Maybe you can fast consistently longer during the weekdays and then during the weekend, have your fasting window cover a social outing. So explore a little bit more and eat more food on the weekends with a longer eating window. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have to eat like all day every day the entire weekend. You could still have a, you know, you could still, you could like open up your window a little bit more without the whole thing doesn't have to be a waste if that or, you know, gone. Yeah. Do you have thoughts on weekends? Like, I think you can be really smart about it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I agree. I think not for everyone, but a lot of people seem to think weekends, it's like a special occasion, like it's a Christmas or something. And that that's like the time to blow it out. Like it's time to celebrate the week, you know, because I worked all week. So I kind of like this is my treat kind of thing. And that's I love that.

Like, it's great to celebrate the week, but you can also do it in a way that serves you rather than undo your hard work, as Melanie said, you just plan a, for example, maybe fast for a little bit longer. Or just your window during the week have make better food choices during the week. And then you can enjoy those things that you really want to have on the weekend. If you want that, you know, because everyone's body is different, you might react differently to different foods. So you can quote unquote, have your cake and eat it too. But it's got to be intentional.

It's not just a magic pill for blow it out and then just start again on Monday, because that's the mindset. A lot of people have. I'll start again on Monday and we don't need to do that. We work too hard during the week and we're so disciplined. So why throw that all away? Just because it's a Saturday, you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, exactly. And I feel really strongly about this.

What I love about my intermittent fasting protocol is I never actually feel the need to like relieve myself with the weekend and reward myself because I'm so happy with how I'm eating normally. I think if you're like white knuckling it during the week and you're just looking forward to the weekend to go crazy, not necessarily that that's what she's doing, but I think I would look more at how am I eating during the week that is making me have this need to overcompensate on the weekends, if that makes sense. Like what you're doing should feel sustainable and nourishing and fulfilling to you. So if it's a constant struggle to have this weekend time when you go off the rails, maybe you need to look more at what you're eating normally so that you don't have that really intense desire.

Barry Conrad
to relate a little bit to that, not necessarily a weekend, but an analogy could be like whenever I wrap a shoot or anything like that like a tradition that I have is I'll have like a treat that I really want like maybe it could be. Chocolate or chips or something like that or burger and I'll have it. And that's not necessarily a Saturday it's just like whenever you know what I mean so it's not like an occasion.

But also interestingly enough that's changed over time the more I've done intermittent fasting like I actually don't feel like having that I have this instead. Not that I can't have it it's just like your taste buds change do you find that Melanie like your taste and cravings for things can change over time.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And the longer I did intermittent fasting, I slowly lost that desire because I just became so happy and fulfilled with what I was eating.

Time can really help, especially if you're new to fasting. Stewart said skipping breakfast sucked, skipping dinner was much better, much. And I think that's really telling. Basically, you got to know which meals work for you because if I were to skip dinner and have breakfast instead, I would be so miserable. But that's me. So yeah. So I think that's an easy fix for people is if they don't like skipping one certain meal, do what works for you. Don't do what you feel like you need to be doing for the meal that you're skipping.

Barry Conrad
I don't know. I just, I don't know, Melanie, I could not skipping dinner. I'd be so sad.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Some of you will love it though. I would like to be that way. Alas, I am not.

Barry Conrad
Like a morning person and like a breakfast person.

Melanie Avalon
Yep. Someday. Someday. Okay.

And then we have Anna Marie said, consistency and finding the best balance to make it stick. I know how good this is, but I just can't find the best window. So that kind of speaks to everything that we're just saying. Like you gotta, it gets easier to stick once you find what works for you. And that does take time for some people to experiment and try different things. So you can find the best window. Like there is the best window out there. And I think, you know, keep trying things and consistency can be required for that. Like you might need to do something consistently to see if it's working. I mean, you do need to do probably something you probably do need to do it consistently to see if it's working.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and definitely not just a day or two. It takes time. Give yourself a good few weeks to a month.

It's not just going to happen. You need to stick it out. Go through that period where you might feel fatigued or feel not fun in the beginning when you're just starting out. It's not going to be easy necessarily, but you do need to diligently and consistently stick it out, and you will see a change, but you just need to get past that point.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Let's see. The next one is Noreen said, I became so focused on the clock that I forgot to listen to real hunger. This has led to binging.

I started IF to lose 20 pounds. It worked until this happened and now I'm still fasting and I have the extra 20 pounds. It took six months to lose. I maintained 1.5 years. I've struggled the past two years. I don't listen to my body's cues anymore. Every day I say I'm going to, I work out hard at the gym, lifting cardio 70-30, I'm strong and lean under 20 pounds of fluff. I think I'm going to say because next week we have a question about binging so I might bring this question back and maybe we can talk about both of those then. That sounds good. Susan said, my hubby eating in front of me. Yes, this is another reason I probably should never get married.

Barry Conrad
Really? Why? Because you'd be too tempted by...

Melanie Avalon
No, not really. It's just the idea of living with somebody. There's a lot. No, no, no. But like, it doesn't bother me people eating at all. Does it bother you if you're fasting and people are eating?

Barry Conrad
No way, not at all actually.

Melanie Avalon
It's interesting.

Yeah, I really thought it would like before I started, but it's Yeah, it's it's not it's not hard for me at all Like i'm so content and how I feel in the fastest state And i'm so looking forward to when I will have my meal that it just doesn't Doesn't bother me

Barry Conrad
Do you know what is interesting now i feel like it's often the other way around where if you say i'm just gonna have a drink or or nothing people then feel guilty or feel worse or bad which is that's interesting to me it's not usually me it's the other way around.

Melanie Avalon
It's yeah, it's I really feel like it's the it's like I can be completely fine. But then people have all this weird social guilt. And that's why I literally had to just I just had to get over that myself personally, I was like, you know what, it's not my responsibility to take on other people's feelings. And me, me not eating doesn't affect it might affect how they feel. That's not my responsibility.

Like if they you know, if it bothers them. Because I mean, all you can really do is like control you and control your actions and how you treat other people and like living with kindness and all the things and worrying about how everybody feels a certain way about your own personal choices if they're not actually affecting them. That's just too much of a burden for me personally to take on and I don't think it's healthy. Yeah, I could go on a soapbox about that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, totally. And people get so hung up on- It's the whole- I don't know what it is. It's almost like this fire that ignites in people. Like, why aren't you eating? Are you starving yourself? Like, and they get really passionate about it without even having any knowledge about even anything to do with nutrition. It's just something- I don't know. Do you find that all I do anyway?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. It's I think it's a lot of triggering and projection often not always but I think people are often if you're not eating and they are and if they at all Feel uncomfortable about what they're eating.

It can seem like it draws a spotlight onto it if if you're not eating at the same time So I think yeah I just can't take on other people's feelings like But I realized with susan's thing It's more about like, you know, her husband probably clearly probably doesn't do fasting and so it's you know A thing with him, you know eating in front of her and I don't have any good advice

Barry Conrad
You know especially no I can I can relate especially if he knows that she's trying to perhaps maybe curbs and cravings or whatnot and he's deliberately eating the thing that she struggles with in front of her I think that's could be quite hard. You know could be the things he's eating in front of her not just necessarily just eating could be like the types of food you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a thing, it's hard to know like how much of an issue it is. I think if it's actually like creating a struggle for you, that would be, you know, a conversation to have to figure out how to best address that.

Because one of the most empowering things that you can do is adjusting your environment to set you up for success. So if that's like a consistent thing that is in your environment, that's a hurdle. Like I'm sure there's a solution you guys can come to, which still lets your husband eat all the things. But maybe just not when, you know, maybe, I don't know, I don't know what the situation is. If it's like that there are like dinner, like you sitting at a dinner, or if it's just like eating the things, like it might be a thing where you can just change your, maybe you do, maybe you do something else during that time. You know, that's when you go, I'm the person here talking. I'm like, you don't have to be around your husband all the time. No.

Barry Conrad
But we hear you. Thank you for sending in that.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, we do. Her last name is Cook, too. It's in her nature to Cook.

Jackie says, doctors, nutritionists, etc., saying it's not good for your body long term. Yeah, for that, I would just keep doing your own research. And, you know, that's in part why we have this show, to spread knowledge and awareness. And don't forget that you choose your doctors and nutritionists. They don't, especially nutritionists, do not work with a nutritionist who doesn't support fasting. That just makes no sense. Like you want to find a nutritionist that understands. With doctors, I can see with especially like finding one on your insurance and like who understands your conditions. But don't forget that you choose your doctors. So they don't choose you.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, on that, did I tell you what happened to me? I think this was early last year where I went to get my bloods done and I got into like a debate with the doctor about fasting because she said, make sure that, you know, before you come in tomorrow morning, like, you know, don't eat, you know, you have to fast as they say. But I said, oh yeah, that's no issue. I do intermittent fasting, I fast 20 hours a day and she immediately stopped writing on her pad and she was like, what do you mean, 20 hours? That's not, that's like, she'd never heard that before and she was like, that's unhealthy.

You shouldn't fast for that much. We like sat there for like a good five, 10 minutes debating this. It was crazy.

Melanie Avalon
How did it end?

Barry Conrad
She came to, she's like, okay, like, you know, I was basically just talking about the science of it and everything in it, in it, trying to become about it so that it wouldn't be defensive. But yeah, it was, it took her a second and I'm so surprised how many doctors and medical professionals just don't know, like, they're not up to speed with the current, like, that's problematic to me.

I don't think that's great.

Melanie Avalon
And it's hard too, especially because the doctors have a sort of power position feeling. So you can feel, I think that's just a societal cultural thing, but it can be scary to push back and actually, you know, show them the data and the literature and everything.

And that's why I think it's so important to find doctors that are open-minded. And that's something that's really important to me with doctors that I work with. Kudos to you to having the debate with her.

Barry Conrad
So I love a good debate because I just think it's a good conversation. I'm like, you want to play ball? Let's, let's, let's play ball. Let's go.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man, yeah. There's a lot more, but maybe ones to end with. Well, here's somebody who just put in some inspiring things. Sheila, Sheila. Is that Australia?

Barry Conrad
That's a very Australian name, hey, Sheila.

Melanie Avalon
She says, five years in and it's the best and easiest sustainable way of living a healthy life at a stable weight. I love that, I love that. I do like this one, maybe this is a good one to end with.

I just saw it. I like this. So Jackie says, the sad reality is you can't eat whatever you want on IF and lose weight. Somehow this has been a strongly held belief. My thoughts there are, I think that's true for a lot of people. Some people will seemingly be able to eat whatever they want and they'll lose weight. A lot of people cannot. I agree that this is like a strongly held belief that I think a lot of people think fasting is like this magic thing and you can always eat all the things all the time and like whatever you want. You still have to make conscious food choices in your eating window.

It might not be like a lot of choices that you have to make. Like it might just be, like you can probably, you might still be able to seemingly feel indulgent, but if you are fasting every day, but then you're eating 10,000 calories, I mean of junk food, that's going to have metabolic effects. I do think it's a commonly held misconception. What do you think?

Barry Conrad
I 100% agree with this. This is something that I do feel passionate about as well, because a lot of people struggle with food in general.

It's not just fasting or any diet. It's just the self-control around food, and that can be very personal and can be from the past issues with food as well. So knowing yourself is very important when it comes to intermittent fasting or any kind of protocol that you take on, because for example, I'm very happy to eat the way I do throughout the week. I know that if I have a treat, just being aware that if I eat this type of food, I know that tomorrow I'm going to carry more water weight, I'll look more puffy, I won't feel as great, but it's the knowledge of it. So if you're aware and educating yourself about the types of things you take into your body, what it's going to do, and how it's going to make you feel, that's very important, and not being afraid or panic about that. But if you ignorantly just eat, like as Melanie said, 10,000 calories and just think that fasting is protective of that, or it's going to mitigate that, that's not reality or how that works. So I think the biggest thing here is knowledge of what different types of foods, how they affect your body. It's very, very important on this journey, because you can enjoy the things that you want, but you need to know how it affects you first, so that you don't panic when it does happen.

Or if the scale goes up, if you do weigh yourself, that's something that you do. It could just be water. It's not possible to gain two pounds of fat overnight. It doesn't work that way. So just being aware, but yeah, it's tricky because we don't want to prescribe like you have to eat these specific foods. This is not what the show is about, but it's just important to know how different foods affect your body. Sorry if I repeated myself too much there, but it's important. You need to know that.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And at the same time, like that doesn't mean fasting didn't work. And what you're not seeing is say you do eat like the 10,000 calories of processed food and gain some weight with fasting. If you hadn't fasted, you probably would have gained even more. So, you know, that you're still getting benefits.

It's just, it doesn't necessarily quote, cover everything you could ever do in your eating window. Speaking of, shall we have our proverbial hypothetical in our minds, breaking our fast moment?

Barry Conrad
It sounds good to me. I'm ready. Let's go.

Melanie Avalon
Okay listeners, so every episode we like to pick and showcase a restaurant and talk about what we would eat because so many of the benefits of intermittent fasting actually come down to what you're eating or that you're that you're actually eating like you're having the um the feeding window not just the fasting. So

Barry Conrad
As well, I actually got some feedback two days ago from someone saying I have listened to the show because I told them I was the new co host and they specifically said I love the restaurant thing I love that you're talking about food as well so it's not just.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and that's awesome. I love that it's so great. Yeah

Melanie Avalon
I know. I'm like wondering, I'm like, is this just completely self-indulgent?

Because I have so much fun doing it. But I know for me, I love looking up restaurants anyways, like personally. I like looking at menus and I like hearing people talk about it. So OK, I've had a moment with myself where there are so many Disney restaurants I want to talk about. So I'm like, maybe I can like alternate and do a Disney one and then another one.

Barry Conrad
I'm all for it. Bring the Disney ones. I'm about it.

Melanie Avalon
Because I read Disney food blog and I'm obsessed with all the restaurants there and they have so many cool restaurants.

Barry Conrad
There's a Disney food blog? Wh-what?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's a really cool website. It's DisneyFoodBlog.com. It's been around forever and they send out, they call them reporters, but they do reviews every single day of all the restaurants, all the new food throughout the park. I read it.

So it's funny. I haven't been in a while. I can tell you about all the restaurants there. Oh, actually that's the restaurant that we could do today. It's funny because my parents just went for my dad's birthday because they like go to Disney without us for fun. They're like, we're going to this new Japanese restaurant there. And I was like, oh yeah, I know all about it because I did, because I read this blog. Should we do that one?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. I love Japanese food. Also, I love that your folks go to Disneyland without you. That's great.

Melanie Avalon
I know they go to Epcot all the time and then they just go and I'm like okay well wish I was there.

Barry Conrad
EPCOT? Mm-hmm. Hold on. What is... Do you know about this? I'm lost. Are you confused? I'm confused, yeah. EPCOT is... I'm looking it up.

Melanie Avalon
So Disney World is made of four different parks. There's Magic Kingdom, which is what you think of when you think of Disney World or Disneyland. And Magic Kingdom is very similar to Disneyland in California.

Then there's Epcot, my favorite, stands for the experimental prototype community of tomorrow. And it's very, you would love it. It's 11 different countries. Each country is set up to look like the country. The people who work at that country are from that country, and they wear the outfits. And then there's restaurants, there's shopping, there's rides. So you get to experience the world. And it's around this beautiful lagoon. Then they have Future World with other rides and the land. There's another part of the park that's not the countries, but it's amazing. And the music's incredible and it's amazing.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, you are blowing my mind, mind-blowing podcasts, blowing my mind, everything just to like all these things I've never heard of before.

Melanie Avalon
You would love it, like you would love it, love it, love it.

Barry Conrad
We'll have to go to one of them at some point.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So like last, no, no, two episodes ago when I was saying that I wanted you to perform at the candlelight processional.

So in the American pavilion, which is America, they have a like an outdoor amphitheater. And they do shows there during like normally, but at Christmas time, they do a candlelight processional, where they I think they read like the Christmas story, and they do music, but they have like celebrity performers.

Barry Conrad
I'd love that I've done something called Christmas Coca-Cola Christmas in the park in New Zealand, which is like a like a televised carols things I've done that like for like three years. That was fun.

I don't know if it's the same sort of a thing, but I love Christmas music. So it's my it's my vibe.

Melanie Avalon
I adore Christmas music. And Christmas at the parks is so magical.

The other two parks, so there's Hollywood Studios. So that's all movie themed. And then there's Animal Kingdom, which is like a massive zoo on steroids with rides and immersive safaris and etc. They have an Expedition Everest roller coaster where you go up Everest. How did I not know about this at all? I don't know because it's like my favorite place in the world and I literally read about it every night.

I'm trying to find the restaurant because I don't know if they're gonna have the menu online because, let me see if I can find it.

Barry Conrad
There has to be a menu now because now I'm just all in.

Melanie Avalon
All right, well, now that we're having this conversation, I was going to do a different country's restaurant, but I feel like should I do the country, the restaurant that my parents went to?

Barry Conrad
I feel like you should. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this restaurant, I'm bad at pronouncing things. It's called Takumi Te. So T-A-K-U-M-I-T-E-I. It's new-ish. It's newer. It's an Epcot in the Japanese pavilion. It's a set price menu, so it's very pricey. It's $250 per adult.

But my parents sent me pictures of their food, and it was wild. So basically, they make a... It's a set price menu with a lot of really nice stuff from Japan. And they change seasonally with the seasons, which is cool. So I will send you...

Barry Conrad
That sounds amazing. Sounds like my kind of place.

Melanie Avalon
It would be hard, I think, for me to fill up here because it is like a set price menu and you get lots of smaller things. This is gonna be hard if we go through the whole thing. Did you get the menu?

Barry Conrad
I got the menu now, oh wow, okay. So 250 adult, but it's got like all the stuff. I'm all about that. I love a good set menu because it just takes the thinking out of it. Just give me the best that you got.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, it's a lot. There's so many things. So we can do the, I think we would probably get the traditional menu, right? So the omakas, wait, how do you say it?

Barry Conrad
I can't say many.

Melanie Avalon
Omakasi menu, Kiku. They also have a semi-course which looks like it's it is a a smaller version of the menu and then they have a plant-based version of the menu and then they have Lots of sake.

Do you drink sake?

Barry Conrad
I actually love sake. Yeah? Yeah, it's really good. Do you drink it or not?

Melanie Avalon
No, have you tried it? I'm getting flashbacks.

I have definitely been somewhere where there was a very expensive sake and like the thing to do, like whatever the experience was, like I should have drank it there because that was like the thing to do. I don't think I did.

Barry Conrad
You gotta try it. Okay, okay. That's something we need to try then. Sake.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, we can go here maybe. Okay, so the first course you get, and this is so fun because literally I have pictures of a lot of this from my parents.

So the first course you get sea bream sushi with, I can't do these words.

Barry Conrad
kungbo jim yeh

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, do you want to read it?

Barry Conrad
The first course you get sea bream sushi with kom bojimye, pickled radish, egg yolk vinegar, chives, deep fried tofu with white miso broth and salted cherry blossom, seared bonito with ponzu jelly, chopped chives and shiso flour. It sounds so good.

Melanie Avalon
So I think I'm gonna just like pick at that one and you can probably have the majority of it.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean pick? What does that mean? Like?

Melanie Avalon
I don't even, I don't know what these, so sushi with, do you know what that is? Come that word.

Barry Conrad
It's a technique used to enhance the taste of sashimi fish through aging the fish between again between two sheets just like to. Lesser meets between two sheets sorry.

Melanie Avalon
That's a flashback to episode 420 for listeners.

Barry Conrad
between two sheets of kelp. Wow, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
There you go. Okay, so that's the first course. And then the second course is called...

Barry Conrad
I want to say Hasun.

Melanie Avalon
Pass soon? Oh yeah, you're so much better at this.

Barry Conrad
Yep, so it's eight meticulously crafted selections thoughtfully curated by Takumi Te.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so basically curveball. We're not sure what it's gonna be. I can tell you what let's see if I have it for my parents

Barry Conrad
Look at the photo. I reckon this would be so good now. Did they say it was really young?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Also, let me tell you what they sent us pictures of.

Actually, we can go through the rest of the meal and then I'll tell you what they sent pictures of because maybe after we read it, I might identify the pictures more appropriately. Okay. So the next course after that is, do you want to go with this?

Barry Conrad
It's called Shizakana. So it says here, please make your selection from the following options.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, we get to make a choice. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Okay so a five japanese wagyu and mini zucchini tempura pickled purple cabbage special leak sauce served with carrot chips or. Use you and grilled flounder i think i feel like you can like the founder with many zucchini tempura and had you can be accompanied by pickled purple cabbage uses salt and the aroma of japanese cedar or.

So that's one choice by the way guys or japanese wagyu steak with special leak sauce mini zucchini tempura pickled purple cabbage and carrot chips so that's a much shorter choice for an additional thirty five dollars i reckon i'm gonna go the first one what about you.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm going to go the second. The second sounds like more, the second sounds more meat focused.

It's like a steak, you know, and the first one is like tempura and a lot going on and it's a five Japanese white. And this is like the real so shout out Danielle and I on the Mindblown podcast did an episode on the world's most expensive foods. And we talked about Wagyu. So this is probably like the actual Wagyu not like you can get Wagyu in the US, but it's not the actual like from Japan stuff that's really expensive. Yeah, so okay, so you're going to get the first one, I'll get the second one. Yeah, and I'm going to get it kind of this is like the first thing I think I can like maybe eat easily. I'm going to get it like plain. Can I put all the stuff on the side? Okay, next one.

Barry Conrad
So sashimi, sashimi, seasonal fish sashimi served with an assortment of garnishes. That sounds pretty good. Okay, I'm down for that one, yeah. Down for that always.

The next one is called hiyashi hachi. This is chilled inanewa udon noodles. I love udon noodles. With A5 Japanese wagyu served in a special white sesame broth accompanied by simed eggplant, cabbage, yellow bell pepper, grated radish. That actually sounds really good.

Melanie Avalon
I think I'm gonna struggle a little bit at this restaurant. Why? Because it's a lot of, it's a lot of small portions of a lot of ingredients.

I wonder if I talk to them, I'm like, listen, can you just send, can you just, it's Disney. They're like all about, you know, being accommodating. I'll be like, can you, like, I'll do the menu. Can you just give me like the meat and fish aspects of each one by itself?

Barry Conrad
Or you could actually say, can you just deconstruct each dish for me?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, can you deconstruct average?

Barry Conrad
So you can have like you could just like basically put things together that you want kind of thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. The last entree part of it is...

Barry Conrad
Last but not least is called the Gohan Mono Simid A5 Wagyu Chirashi Don with Sushimi served with red miso soup or bluefin tuna and a homemade pickled white radish Chirashi sushi with chopped shiso leaf and wasabi served with red miso soup. So there's an option there.

What are you going to go with there?

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna go with more I think Wagyu. I'm just gonna like stock up on Wagyu here. Well actually, I would like to try the tuna. I get worried about the mercury levels.

Barry Conrad
How about you get that? I'll get the tuna and then you can always pick it. Have a little taste. Okay. Thank you. Sounds great.

And then we'll migrate to the... And then the dessert. Yes. So it's called the matcha and kanmi.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm already going to say because you pick something. So no, no, you have to select something. So we can just get one of each and you can have both.

Barry Conrad
Sure. So please select from the following.

So these are the two options listeners. So match a rare cheesecake with strawberries, blueberries, floral, crunchy chocolate, yum, and gold leaf or melted or melted sweet potato pudding with strawberries, blueberries, caramel whip and gold leaf or fresh seasonal fruit with homemade lemon, honey and gold leaf. Wow. So there's three options there.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, so we have to so we're gonna have to pick two. Which two are you picking?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go with the first and the last, that's my two that I would choose.

Melanie Avalon
Solid choice.

Barry Conrad
What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I don't want any of it. So you get two choices because you can have one of mine. I'm going to try to get more meat for dessert. We'll see how that goes. We'll say a prayer.

Barry Conrad
I feel like you've got a lot of wagyu already, right?

Melanie Avalon
I want more, maybe they'll give me more salmon like sashimi.

Barry Conrad
Did your parents say how, like, based on the photos, are they quite big washens or they-

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm looking, okay, so the photos they sent me that I have from when they went, so, and they said that when they went, so like I said, it's a seasonal menu, and they, they re-themed, I think they re-themed the entire restaurant to that season, and then they changed the menu for it. And what's also cool about it is you can see the fireworks from the restaurant if you're in there during the firework show.

But this is one of the newer upscale restaurants, and this is one of them.

Barry Conrad
Sounds amazing

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So maybe for next week, I'll do the other really, really upscale restaurant. There's a few, but there's one like this where it's like very, very upscale and it's in a different country and I like the menu a lot better.

But from the pictures that my parents sent, so I have a picture of my dad smiling and there's, it looks like actual steak. So it might be the wagyu steak. It's surrounded by like veg. Oh yeah, this is it because it says, yeah, it's surrounded by purple cabbage like in the picture and carrots on top. Yep. So it's that one. Yeah. It looks, it looks good. Yeah. Then they sent a picture of my mom with a whole thing of sushi and then the dessert, they sent a picture. I have a text saying, oops, we already finished this course and it's just empty plates and like an empty, like an empty seashell. So thanks. Thanks guys. And then there's a picture of the dessert and it's, it looks like a marbled cake with, there's like a strawberry and there's little like flowers. And then there's a, whoa, there's like a, I don't know what that is. It's like a jelly dessert thing.

Barry Conrad
It does that so it's...

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and then the server brought out or made origami for them. Yeah, apparently the servers are like very into it and like educate you and like tell you about how it's done and make origami and things like that.

Barry Conrad
Where is this one based again, Mel? So this is in which city?

Melanie Avalon
So this is in the Japan pavilion in Epcot.

Barry Conrad
And so they just went there for like a trip or.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my parents? Oh, my dad's birthday. Oh, wait. Yes, my dad's birthday.

Yeah. They said they decided to go really last minute. And I guess they could get reservations because it is it's probably the most expensive restaurant in Epcot. So because it's so expensive, there's reservations available. So they didn't have any other choice. But yeah, okay. Oh, I'm so excited to do more Disney restaurants on the show, especially because I because I'm going to get you so excited about Epcot. And then then we can like actually go

Barry Conrad
I'm totally I'm all for it like I love Disney and I love this. I actually love a set menu. You know when you go out with friends and they're like, ah, no, like that's too much. I just want to order things, but it's just like easier. Just let's just order the set menu and just like chill, you know, when I think about it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is how we're so different.

Barry Conrad
Okay, hold on, let me zoom out for a second.

Melanie Avalon
I like stat menu. Bye!

Barry Conrad
It depends though, like if it's if it's not a great one, no, but if it's like a good one and I haven't been there and I just want to catch up with someone sure, you know, it's fine.

Melanie Avalon
I think if they can adapt to my craziness, it's going to be wild when we actually go out to eat and you can experience me doing this stuff. No, but I'm very, I'm very, this is what I'm trying to empower and encourage listeners. Like you can be very nice and kind and order things the way you want and it's all fine. I promise it's all fine.

Barry Conrad
It is fine. It's actually not bad to ask a question. You just have to do it politely.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I would rather have a customer that has requests who treats me nicely and is kind than no requests, but just not pleasant. So I think it's really important how we treat the servers.

Barry Conrad
Honestly, Mel, I especially know in light of me going to actually be, I actually can't wait to go out to eat with you. It's going to be fun.

Pressure, no pressure, pressure. You can't cover your mouth too much. You can't look away too much.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, Barry, I have an idea now. I feel like we should make a podcast where we just talk about Disney restaurants. Just saying. That might actually work really well.

Okay. To-do list. We could do like a whole show. We could like, wait, we could move to Orlando and... Okay, sorry. I get excited with ideas.

Barry Conrad
You are a Disney princess, essentially. I mean, look at the dresses you wear to your shows. I wish.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Well, this has been so, so fun for listeners. If you have your own questions for the show, please email questions at iapodcast.com or you can go to iapodcast.com. You can submit questions there.

You can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad currently based in Australia, but soon to be in the US. And we are iapodcast on Instagram. So this is so fun. I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and we'll catch you very soon.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week!

May 12

Episode 421 – Special Listener Guest Pamela Wakeman, Fasting For Menopause, Alcohol, Kava, And Fat Burning, Changing Up Your Window, HRT Benefits, Protein Intake, Combatting Lifestyle Overwhelm, Food Choices For Kids & Teens, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 421 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC



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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)


Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 421 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, Intermittent Fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 421 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with a very special listener guest today. We've been doing some episodes in this listener guest series, and it is just so, fun because for so long, for years and years and years, I've been doing this show and putting out content for everybody. And now I feel like it's time to actually talk with you guys and get your stories and hear your thoughts and your fasting experience. So I am just loving doing this. And today's guest has such an incredible story. I'm here with Pamela Wakeman. She is from Arizona, and she has a really incredible story about her fasting journey, and in particular, how it really helped her with navigating menopause and a lot of the symptoms that go with that. And she has so many experiences. So I have so many questions for her. And, and actually, to start it off, Pamela, when I was reading your story that you sent in, I thought it was so funny. So basically, you first found intermittent fasting because you thought Dr. Minnie Peltz's book fast like a girl was about running. What happened there?

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, well, because yes, definitely I have been running long distance events for, you know, like a decade and I'm always looking for women focused sort of coaching. And I want to say there's even a blog that I was following before I moved to Colorado before I moved to Arizona. So maybe it was like 15 years ago now.

But I thought it was called Fast Like a Girl. And that's how I like Google that. And I came up with Mindy Pels book. But it wasn't until I actually heard her on Mel Robbins podcast that I understood like what she was really about.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, I love that. Did you listen to my interview? I interviewed her on my other show, or was it this show, my other show, I think.

Pamela Wakeman
It was, I think it was a show. Let me Google really quick. She's definitely going to be a fasting lady.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I actually I had her on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, she was really, really great.

The work that she does is so profound and like we were talking about the beginning, she really understands adopting fasting for, for women's hormones and things like that. The beginning of your fasting journey. So you were exposed to her content. Did you, how did you feel? Were you skeptical? Were you excited? Did you immediately jump in? How did you start?

Pamela Wakeman
I had a boss, the manager at work mentioned to me about his fasting experience and it sounded kind of out there at the time. And I thought, good for him, those are pretty lofty goals.

As a couple of years had gone by, I started to have issues from everything from joint pain to hip issues to carpal tunnel syndrome, tennis elbow. I mean, it was all like one thing after the other after the other. And I was not the type of person who had these issues in the past. I had running injuries, but these were all unrelated and coming out of nowhere. And so I started to seek out ways that I could sort of help myself. And so when I heard Mindy talking about healing yourself through fasting, it put a whole different lens on fasting for me. It wasn't about weight loss, which I definitely had through menopause, I was gaining weight faster than I ever had, which was also surprising and a little scary. But the fasting in terms of inducing autophagy, this was incredibly interesting to me. And I thought, I need to try this right away because I was just about to have another hip surgery.

And I was thinking to myself, maybe I could have avoided this had I already had delved into fasting and multi-day fasting to be able to regenerate cells and restore my metabolism or reset as Minnie Pels likes to say. So yeah, I jumped in. Short answer, I jumped right in and started and built my way up to a 16-8 fast. And then I had been following her for about three months. And then she hosted a 72-hour fast at the beginning of the year, January. And I thought, oh boy, is this even safe? Like I started to question how I was even going to make it through. Because there's all these preconceived ideas of what going without food means in our society. I'm raising, she's 19 years old now, but at the time, my daughter was having issues navigating our diet culture and looking a certain way and feeling a certain way in your clothes.

And every time some of those thoughts that I had grown up with would come out of my mouth, and she would just look at me like, what is wrong with you? You can't say these things anymore. Like you can't go without food for a certain amount of time. And I'm like, but wait, this is under a different lens now. We're not talking about going without food because we are trying to lose weight and we just want to tough it through and get to the next day. And then just go and eat the same diet or eat the same kinds of foods that you were eating before. This is about you are emotionally and mentally aware of what you're doing. You're not doing it to punish yourself. You're doing it to unlock the power of your body to be able to heal itself. And sure, drop some fat or burn some fat, which is like a whole different viewpoint from losing weight. Losing water weight and losing muscle comes from dieting in an unhealthy way or in a way that's dysfunctional.

Pamela Wakeman
My daughter was in our society pushes forth, but this ability to sort of trigger ketosis and use those ketones to burn body fat. I mean, this was just so intriguing to me.

And trying to share it to my daughter as it was like, they were even skeptical because they were like, this doesn't sound healthy. This sounds scary. You shouldn't do this. So I really had to dive in and understand the science behind it before I could go back and talk to them about it more fully.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so many things there. Did your daughters come around to your perspective or how did that end up?

Pamela Wakeman
You know, my youngest is still of the mindset where she feels like she's young and she can, you know, wants to eat whatever she wants because she's young and doesn't want to deprive herself. And so, like, I feel like we've kind of met in the middle where she feels, you know, like she still wants to eat certain foods, but, like, she understands what those foods now can do to her metabolism. And so, she's making a conscious choice not because she feels entitled, because, you know, she's young and her body will burn, you know, calories or have a faster metabolism, but more because she just wants to be able to experiment with different types of foods.

And as long as she's aware of what's, you know, when she can control, you know, the types of foods that she's eating, like, for instance, you know, she does want to cut out sugar now because she understands, you know, what it can do to your skin. You know, having multiple reasons beyond just losing weight to look good is really more of an intrinsic motivator than just, you know, I want to look good in my clothes. My other daughter is more, she's cutting out alcohol, so she's looking at it from a different perspective where she's just like, I'm done, you know, going out with my friends and getting drunk on the weekends and partying. I'm really going to be more actively taking responsibility for my health from a health perspective, from a I want to be cleaner. I want to eat healthier whole foods and, you know, make sure that I'm not getting any toxins, you know, in my body. So, both of them coming from different perspectives and both of them very, very important for the whole, this whole process of fasting, because there's so many different pathways to detox, to be able to allow our bodies to be able to fast, you know, most efficiently. So, I feel like I'm having impact, but it's just different for different, maybe different age ranges, probably.

Melanie Avalon
It's so interesting. And I don't think I'll ever have kids.

One of the reasons I don't want to is I don't want to deal with the issue or the challenge of raising them the way I would want them to live with health choices and things like that, but also supporting, you know, personal freedom and agency. And literally, I just, it's just too much for me to deal with. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.

Pamela Wakeman
No, it's totally a lot. I was running under my, I could hear my parents' voices in my head as I was hunting my kids.

And then it wasn't until, I mean, I went through a divorce and I started to become my own person. I was going through menopause. I was really understanding who I was for the first time. And from that lens, I could actually parent my kids in a more effective way, I think.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love that. It's ironic because I feel, especially on my other show, I feel like I read so many books that touch on all this, so I'm learning a lot, but I don't think I'll ever actually practically implement it.

And something I think about a lot actually is, so this is not fasting, and I'm not endorsing fasting for kids. It's, you know, 18 or older, but food choices, like the healthy food choices you make, I also feel conflicted about that because on the one hand, I wish, like I wish I had been raised eating like non-processed foods and whole foods and healthy foods, but I ate, you know, all the junk. And it's like I have all these really great memories involving like junk food. So it's this weird dichotomy of like having fondness surrounding these foods that I no longer eat, wondering what it would have been like if I'd never eaten them. It's just really intriguing. It's interesting to think about.

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, like the other day, I mean, like when I was growing up, my dad would be like, don't eat all that cool whip, you know, because it's bad for you, it's full of sugar. But like now I see on like ketogenic, like blogs or whatever, they'll have recipes with like, not you know, sugar free cool whip, like make these great desserts. And like you can eat the whole tub. It's like, Oh, awesome.

Like, you know, it's, it's again, a whole different point of view. Like you want the fat in your diet now you want to be able to, you know, feel satiated, and we do need fat in our diet to do that. So that does, you know, bring up like the conjure up like the old junk foods of yesteryear.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and speaking of the food, and your personal diet, the foods that you've eaten historically and then when you started fasting, how did that change for you personally?

Pamela Wakeman
When I first heard Mindy talking, she would say, talk about this story about this man that she was training or she was coaching and how he would eat the same foods, but just in a smaller eating window. And so to me, I guess I wanted to start that way so I wouldn't feel like I was really dieting or making a huge life change all at once. So I didn't change much of my diet. I just compressed my eating window.

And then as I started to maybe drop a few, I started to gain momentum and think, oh, well, it's working. What else can I do to make it even more effective? And so I started to learn about detoxing my body from I started to eat more meat, but I realized that the kind of meat I was eating had to be a little bit cleaner, couldn't just go out and eat any ribeye. It really should be a grass-fed, grass-finished ribeye if I'm going to be able to eat the whole thing and have the fat be of benefit to my body versus pulling in all the chemicals from the pesticides that the cattle eat. So that started to just build on itself. So I stopped eating grains because grains, again, are one of those foods that are sprayed with toxic chemicals.

And I started to replace these foods with other foods that had more protein because having already been clued into the fact that women in menopause have to have even more protein in their diet from reading the book Roar, which is about women who are active, very active, and want to keep staying active even through menopause. There are protein needs that you have to, you really have to maintain. So just finding foods that have more protein and finding ways to just sneak in protein wherever I could, but still fast. So that was kind of tricky, trying to get in enough protein and still stay in a fasting state or a fasted state.

But then I went all into what am I cooking with and how am I cooking these foods? I'm cooking with pots and pans that have Teflon all over them and I'm storing them in plastic containers and I'm using aluminum foil to cook on when I barbecue. It's things like that. It's like, oh, wait a minute. These things are impacting how the nutrition of the food is actually being absorbed in my body or not being absorbed for that matter. So I had to make big changes in the kitchen to get rid of the plastics and the toxic kitchen cookware.

And then beyond that, then it led into, and I know you're familiar with this, the cosmetics, cleaner cosmetics, because I'm living in Tucson where it's really dry. So I'm using all creams, moisturizers where I'm using a lot of it. So is it clean or is it full of different kinds of chemicals that impact my hormonal system? So yeah, everything is impacting the way my body reacts to the foods ultimately that I'm eating, because if the foods aren't able to find a way into my cells because they're blocked by toxins, then I'm not doing the best that I can do for my body.

But this took a while. It took a good year to figure out. Had I known all this at the very beginning, it probably would have been too overwhelming, and I might have stalled out and not continued on with it.

Pamela Wakeman
So I'm glad that I had the chance to just ease my way into it and learn about all this slowly and through different people. Mindy Pels was one person, and ultimately I did actually get a certification with her to be a coach for Fast Like a Girl so that I can help other women enter into that lifestyle.

But also, it's good to have lots of different teachers and really vary the different teachings and understand things from different perspectives, because there's so much out there and a lot of it is conflicting, and to weed through it is tricky. So you have to view it from the lens of your life and what's reasonable for you, or else you can get overwhelmed pretty quickly.

Melanie Avalon
You are touching on something that I think so many people experience, and this happened to my friend really recently, which is that when you start this health journey, you said something about how it's a good thing that you weren't exposed to all this information right at the beginning because you would have been overwhelmed. And I think that happens so often with people.

If they want to make change, they can almost feel stuck. If they realize all the things they need to change compared to it being an evolving journey where at least for me personally, what I experienced and what I think a lot of people experience and I'm hearing with you is that when you find it's kind of like the gateway drug, but like the thing that works like fasting for you and you feel the difference and you feel the benefits, then you get excited about everything that you get to learn. And then you can slowly tackle all the things. At least for me, it was like, oh, okay, now what can I do next? And so I really think people can switch that mindset from a potential fear-based mindset of all the things they have to do to one of empowerment of all the things they get to do on their own timeline, on their own pace, or at their own face. Was that sort of your experience? Yes.

Pamela Wakeman
In fact, more recently, you know, when I was listening to your podcast, Vanessa was talking about autophagy and she was citing a study where, and I hope I get this right and do her justice, but she had said that there is the same amount of autophagy or to trigger the same amount of autophagy from a 72-hour fast, you can get the same amount or same effect from doing a 30-minute strength or resistance training workout, which is like to me, like that says, okay, so now after I've been on this fasting journey, I'm learning something new that maybe I don't want to do like, maybe my, I can do like a 72-hour fast a couple of times a year, but maybe I don't want to do them off more often than that. And in, you know, to replace that or in addition to that, I can do some, you know, I can really get more resistance training in and kind of extend the amount of time that I was doing it to get the same effect.

That to me kind of blows my mind because, you know, now I have two different tools at my disposal that I can use to get the kind of healing that I'm looking for. And yeah, I think that the more you kind of dive into this world, the more tools you find and the more varied they are, I think that's important because your body needs to, from what I understand, your body really needs to switch it up and to be, you know, confused a little bit so that it has to adapt and learn something new. And then that adaptation kind of makes those changes in your body. And that's where you start to see, you know, the physical changes too.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Vanessa, she's amazing at finding all of these incredible studies, especially around things like protein and autophagy and training. And yeah, I vaguely remember her talking about that one. Something else you touched on that I love is the exposing yourself to different ideas. I think this is so important, like always having an open mind and, you know, engaging with all different ideas and perspectives.

And it's interesting. So one I got reminded of when you were talking was, and we haven't aired this yet at the time of us personally recording, but by the time this episode comes out, it will have aired. So episode 415, I interviewed Dr. Matthew Letterman, who's well known for the Forks Over Knives documentary and some books surrounding that. He co-wrote the Whole Foods diet with John Mackey, who is the former CEO and founder, co-founder of Whole Foods. And he has a company called We Be Calm, but he's really amazing and he's very much in the vegan sphere. He brought up actually the concept of toxins and animal fat. And I was saying, well, we could eat, you know, grass fed, grass finished and things like that. And then he was saying, well, no, actually there's not much difference between the toxins and grass fed, grass finished versus conventional because of how saturated these persistent organic pollutants are. And I was like, Oh, well, that's interesting. So maybe, maybe we should, well, A, I need to look into that more and B, maybe that means we should actually leaner meat, you know, regardless. And so then for episode 414, which I realized comes before that, but we recorded it out of order. You'll have to listen to that episode because we, I went down the rabbit hole trying to find the studies on this. It wasn't very promising, basically, basically there, there does seem to be on the one hand, there does seem to be similar compounds in animal fat, even if it's grass finished organic. I do think it's slightly less, but either way it sounds like going leaner with the meat in particular can actually reduce your exposure to those compounds. But then it's ironic because then there's things like fish where the main, you know, problem with fish is mercury. And that's actually preferentially stored in protein, not in fat. So going leaner with fish doesn't really address the mercury problem. It's so, and the reason I bring this up is because like you were saying, there's so much information out there and so many different conflicting perspectives that, well, A, to tie into the earlier theme, it could be overwhelming or B, it could be empowering because it means, you know, we're always learning and we're always finding what works for us personally. Yeah. So I'm not trying to scare people away from eating, you know, fatty, grass fed, grass finished meat. I personally still think it's really healthy. So I differ a little bit, but it was a really interesting conversation. You'll have to listen and let me know what you think.

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, because I mean, one of the cool things about Mindy Pels was that she took it beyond just the fast like a girl, and she just recently released a book called Eat Like a Girl, and it really is composed of a lot of vegan or vegetarian recipes, which I wasn't expecting. I was expecting, I guess, because of the focus on protein, I was expecting more meat-based meals.

So when I started to make these foods, I was like, well, this is way out of my comfort zone, number one, because I wasn't, I'm not a vegetarian. But number two, it exposed me to the possibilities of eating more vegetarian meals, because I don't, like I wasn't, I'm just not familiar with like, eating things like tofu and tempeh, and just understanding how to prepare these foods so that they're not like going to attack your, you know, metabolism, like, you know, the different toxins that come from eating plants, like that I wasn't even aware of before I learned about this, you know, the things that kind of create different blockages in your body, like spinach and kale, I guess I used to think, okay, the more the better and now I'm like, okay, but not if it's not cooked, oxalates, yeah, oxalates, don't cook it too much, you know, cook it enough where you're breaking down the oxalates so that you know, you can eat some of these foods for the nutritional value. So it's, it's, again, it's tricky understanding just based navigating the foods that you eat, and which ones are safest to eat, and which ones you really have to understand how to prepare them or pair them with other foods in order for them to be, you know, the safest way to eat them. So yeah, I've gone from like, learning about fasting to now I'm getting into, you know, the nutrition side of things and the strength training side of things. So it's, it's just evolving, which is why I guess I consider myself like, recreational bio hacker, because I'm trying these different things without, you know, too much like concern about like, the effects, like, I just want to see what will happen and then, you know, kind of pivot from there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love that approach. That is something I remember from interviewing and reading her book, Dr.

Peltz is she's, she's on the lower protein side of things, which I personally, I mean, I feel like it's obvious if people listen to this show, we, I just think a focus on protein is so, so important. I just think it's the most nourishing thing for our body, especially when it's paired with fasting, because, you know, you have the, the fasting period to reduce MTOR and IGF-1, these signaling pathways for growth and stimulate, like you were mentioning, autophagy and stimulate all these repair systems in the body. And then when you eat, that's when you're doing the actual repair and you need that protein for, for not only for growth of muscle and support muscle mass, which is so key for health and longevity and metabolic health, but also for just hunger. Like, you know, a lot of people struggle with hunger and there's, you know, this protein leverage hypothesis that we will feel hungry until we meet our protein needs. So yeah, protein is definitely one where there's all different opinions. How much protein do you try to get daily?

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, I mean, I don't really track. I mean, I kind of like look at the foods that I have and I know kind of in my head, like how much a serving has. And so I kind of, I don't kind of, I do have, I have an issue with hunger. So I really do actually take in probably more than maybe somebody else who like my husband, for instance, he's like, he, I mean, again, he's men and women fast differently and metabolize differently. So I don't mean to compare the two, but I definitely see a difference in our hunger levels.

And so I definitely need to eat additional protein to get, you know, to feel satiated. And, you know, I was doing butter in my coffee for a while. And, and I think for a while, like it worked, but then I found that, you know, it was probably an added calorie intake that maybe I didn't need. And that I, if I, you know, fat, maybe with more fat with my first meal around lunchtime that I was, you know, that was okay. That was a different sort of sort of composition of a meal versus having the fat early in the day. Cause I did want to have benefit from the, the, the fasted workout. I like the fasted workout. I it's, I don't work out for very long cause I don't have a lot of time, but I, you know, from, from what I'm learning, you don't really have to work out for very long if you're, if you're doing, you know, targeted exercise. So I feel like a fasted workout feels really good, you know, for my body. So yeah, no more butter in my coffee, but I'm still doing the MCT oil in my coffee. I love that. I love the creaminess of it. It just gives it a different taste and texture. It feels a little bit more like a kind of a meal. Yeah. I mean, like, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, but then I definitely like scoops of cottage cheese or grass fed, you know, Greek yogurt later on with, I guess in the evening, I'll have that with berries to, you know, kind of calm down for the evening and feel full. And so that I can have a good night's sleep too. That helps.

Melanie Avalon
well. Cottage cheese and berries are two of my favorite things. That's amazing. I love that.

Well, actually, okay, where do I want to go from here? So, well, I wanted to touch on something that you, so you mentioned earlier about your daughter trying the not drinking thing. I feel like the whole sober curious movement is very popular right now. In your intake form, you're talking about, what were you saying about, about alcohol?

Pamela Wakeman
haul that I guess about six months into my fasting I started hearing about dry farm wines and I was like oh I'm all over that you know because now I can drink wine and not feel guilty about it or whatever you know the sugar you know was it was not the added sugar that you would get from just a wine off the shelf and I never really paid much attention I would just get whatever wine was you know affordable at my local you know a wine shop or whatever but then I started doing the dry farm wines and I really enjoyed it but I realized that for me personally it was too much that I needed to just in general I needed to cut back on any alcohol not all but definitely during the week and like really be mindful of what I was taking and like you know going to restaurants and all their beautiful cocktail menus it was like you know okay you know there were like treats and you know instead of a dessert I would have a cocktail I'm like what am I doing like this is this is this is too much it just feels like too much and it feels like I'm standing still like I'm not I'm making all these progress forward with with fasting and with you know healing my body and then I'm going and you know drinking these drinks that I don't really need but I'm doing it because it looks fun and you know I want to relax on the weekends and so I just had to find different ways like different alternative drinks like kava drinks and adaptogenic drinks to kind of replace you know because I still had that habit of like maybe going for a cocktail in the evening but just replace it with something a little bit less less alcohol because the so many calories and alcohol I was just I felt like I was just like I wasn't progressing forward so it for me it was really a blocker that I had to address and I hear people talk about like oh we should only have a glass of wine at night it's like a glass like who has a glass of wine I always have like at least two glasses of wine like and that is like you know if it's like 200 calories of glass then like that's my whole workout today and like I'm not working out so that I can burn calories so I can have more wine like this is not what this is supposed to be this is about moving forward and getting you know for longevity sake now you know this is about feeling better not just standing still so I I guess I fought it for a long time Melanie I wanted to keep my wine and keep my tonics and I had to finally admit that this is what was holding me back so I just think that you know the women that I coach I I'm going to be part of it like oh you should probably cut out you know cut down on your alcohol no you should really cut down on your alcohol but you know of all the drinks that I love the most you know I do love the dry farm wine

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I obviously love this topic. And I think it's so individual. And people really have to know themselves and find what works for them.

And the dry farm wines piece is, if you are drinking, it's such a key, it's such a key difference. Because if I were to drink because I do drink wine every night. And if I, if I were to drink conventional wine, I would just feel horrible. And I can't believe I was like, I was in a phase like in college. And after when I was just drinking like cheap wine all the time. And I literally could not do that. Now I would feel so unwell the next day.

So I have to stick to my, my dry farm wines. I actually even went, it's funny yesterday, I went to total wine and more I was like, I'm going to see if I can find wines that seem to meet dry farm wines criteria, which is organic, low alcohol, 12.5% or less free of added sugar free of added sulfites. I wouldn't be able to know if it was tested for mold and toxins and all that stuff. I literally stood in the aisle, I was probably there for like, and I knew where to go. I was like, I'm gonna go to the French section, I'm gonna look at the Loire Valley, I'm gonna find like a low alcohol gamay. That's organic. Like I got this. I was there for like 45 minutes and couldn't find anything. So yeah, there's definitely something special to dry farm wines if you are drinking. The thing I was thinking from your format you're filling out was you were saying, because I'm glad you put this in here, because I have heard people say this, which is that drinking alcohol will hijack the liver for detox for the next 22, 72 hours. So the body will not use the fasting window to burn fat.

So I don't know where that idea started. I think maybe that's the case for some people. I can say definitively, at least from my experience that at the very least, it's not always true. And the reason I know that is because I have had a glass of wine every night with the exception of I did try not drinking for a year to see if I felt any better. I did not. So I was like, well, we tried that. I know that I've pretty much had a glass of wine every night for like a decade, minus that one year. And during that decade, I have definitely gained and lost weight. So that negates that idea always being true, if that makes sense. Like basically, I know I've lost weight. I know I burn fat while having wine in the evenings.

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, and it feels like you should, right? Because it's like not a sugar alcohol.

I mean, it's a sugar alcohol, but it's not the added sugar, right? Like so you, it really is just the alcohol the liver is burning down or breaking down.

Melanie Avalon
which it would burn first, too.

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah and if your body's used to like the same amount like every night I feel like your body adapts so it's probably breaking it down quicker that's my opinion because I guess on days where you drink more and where you know where you've had more than you normally would then maybe that would would be the case you need extra time to recover or your your liver would have more time that it needed to recover but then you could also take some charcoal activated charcoal and that could help you know speed things along too which I totally believe in now since I've been using that you know when I eat things like lots of carbs that I didn't mean to eat but you know they were the only thing that was available or something like that.

Melanie Avalon
I think we might have talked about that on the show, that idea before. It's really interesting.

I mean, it does make me think, cause I recently interviewed, I haven't aired it yet, but Dr. Kate Shanahan, I had her on the show again. She's the one who wrote deep nutrition and the fat burn fix. And then her most recent book is called dark calories. She's the person who really made the whole idea of seed oils being a problem. She's the one who kind of shown the flashlight on that in the beginning and is continuing to do so. But she does talk a lot in that book about how, you know, some people with metabolic issues and insulin resistance and stuff, how they almost like never burn fat, they're pretty much, you know, always burning sugar. So I could definitely see situations where with certain signaling, certain people may not burn fat in the fast. So I can see, basically I can see how it might be a thing, but I don't, but saying like, Oh, if you drink, then you're not going to burn fat for 72 hours. That's just not a true statement, like across the board for everybody.

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, okay. That's good to know. I'm glad that you brought that up because that was a fear of mine for sure.

Melanie Avalon
You heard of Z-biotics? Yes. Mm-hmm. Sure. I'm obsessed with them too. I just found them sort of a few months ago and they're super cool. It's like a GMO probiotic that breaks down acetaldehyde, which is the toxic byproduct of alcohol in the stomach. It's... Yeah, I love that. But in any case, I super applaud you for knowing what works for you and, you know, really it requires a lot of self-awareness and commitment. So, kudos to you.

What type of cava do you have?

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, I mean, I was drinking, I was trying Trucava, which is a product that was on store shelves. It's like a soda, but I already use element, element tea for hydration. So I thought, you know, I could make a cocktail out of element tea and soda water and cava and kind of create my own concoctions so that I could have different flavors when I wanted them and just experiment with like different dosages of the cava, so it would be like a tincture of cava from, you know, health food store and just see what kind of effect it would have and, you know, how much I really needed to feel and to get an effect that I liked without feeling too sort of out of it, you know, because I still have things, you know, I still have to be productive even at the end of the day. So I don't want to feel like, okay, I'm done.

I'm just going to go sit on the couch now, you know? But cava, you know, ashwagandha, those are the two main ones. And yeah, I think those are the two main ones for drinks that I would use.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. There's something I want to, there's a brand, I haven't tried it yet. They're supposed to send it to me. I need to follow up because I'm dying to try it.

But they make a product called, I think it's called like hard ketones. And basically, I haven't tried it yet. But I watched their video with Tim Ferriss about it. And apparently, I didn't know this. Apparently, there's a ketone that it's not. Okay, I don't want to like say it wrong. It's like an intoxicating ketone. So like basically, it will give you a buzz. But it's not alcoholic. And it's literally just a ketone. And they've turned this into a drink. I'm very intrigued by this concept. Because I always thought of ketones as like the energy substrate, not an intoxicating type feeling, not to say we should all get intoxicated all the time, but basically getting like this, you know, this feeling that you might be desiring from alcohol, getting it from ketones in this drink. So I will report back listeners because I'm very intrigued by this brand. One thing okay, so going back to the fasting, one thing I definitely wanted to touch on is I love that you when you start so when you started fasting, you used the prep for the surgery as a way to jumpstart your fast. Is that right? Like that you had to fast anyways? Yes.

Pamela Wakeman
That's true, I did. I had a surgery coming up for my hip and the timing was such that I could use that as an opportunity because the doctors make you fast for varying lengths of time before surgery. So it seemed like, okay, I'm doing it anyway, I'm just gonna keep it going. And that concept of being able to speed up the recovery, kind of sort of that momentum kept me going.

So I didn't need any like fasted snacks or any kind of special, not special, but like I didn't take in anything else other than water because I wanted to see if this was like really going to help me heal faster. Hard to say because the surgeries these days are so, you know, amazing that, you know, especially for hips, so you're up and about in like a couple of days anyway. But yeah, I mean, I was definitely, gosh, I think I was running a race by Thanksgiving, I wanna say. So yeah, I think that, I think it definitely would have helped. I also had COVID like three weeks after. I fasted through that with element and water and slept. And so, I mean, I don't know. I definitely didn't have it for very long, maybe three days, but I had it and it went away and I felt, you know, great afterwards. So I feel like it's also a great way to sort of heal from like colds and, you know, as long as you're getting, I guess fluids, you know, I didn't feel that it was necessary to eat anything. And if it's gonna make me heal faster then what it's all the better.

Melanie Avalon
I love that so much. I loved reading that from you because it's such a similar response that I have, which is basically if there's ever something that would cause me to not be eating. So for example, like prepping for a colonoscopy or like you said, getting COVID, I'm like, yay, this, I see it as like as a, as a way to have a longer fast. It's actually sort of exciting. I mean, being sick isn't exciting and colonoscopies aren't exciting, but the longer fast is, is nice.

So I love that. It's kind of like a little hack that people can do. So for me, for example, fasting, I do the same thing fasting wise every day. And I have essentially for a decade with very little deviation. I don't think that's for everybody. I think a lot of people like you were mentioning earlier, do well with switching things up and you seem to be pretty comfortable with, you know, switching up your fast and finding what works for you. So, so how do you do that? Like how often do you switch around your fasting protocol? How planned is it versus not planned? Do you ever not fast? What is that like for you?

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, I definitely take a day where I don't fast. I guess I try to, for the most part, do five days of fasting and then two days I'll switch it up and it's usually the weekends.

So it depends if I'm training for something or not. I'm mainly, I'm pushed to like, I like to get to the 17 hour mark because Mindy Pels has different lengths of fast that she talks about and really has research behind. Then she says the 17 hours is really like a sweet spot for autophagy, for starting autophagy. And so I try to get at least a 17 hours, if not, you know, to 20 hours to get that effect. So sometimes I'll do like a one meal a day, if I'm not, you know, if I was one of my days and then one day I won't fast at all. That's pretty much, you know, just because I like to have dinner, you know, with my husband in the evenings, that's kind of our time to catch up. I feel like that meal, I don't want to skip on. So it's much easier to skip out, skip the earlier meals because I'm so busy during the day working. And again, I think that just switching it up is really key because yeah, I feel like the body sort of gets used to a certain like schedule of, you know, a pattern. Then the progress kind of stalls a little bit.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I love that you can do that so intuitively. Does your husband fast? No.

Pamela Wakeman
But I have been switching over to ketogenic cooking. And so he'll eat the dinners that I make that are keto.

But he still, yeah, he likes to have his breakfast. So he doesn't fast. But if he did, he'd probably disappear.

Melanie Avalon
He's very lean. And how do you find doing things socially? Does it ever become an issue? Do people give you grief? Do you adapt pretty easily? What is that like?

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, I mean, like, socially, I'll try to save it my non fasting day for a day that I'm gonna, you know, go out with friends, I'll eat whatever, you know, is there. And, you know, right now, I'm enjoying the fact that I'm getting a lot of great Mexican food down here in Tucson, which is new for me. So I'll take advantage of that.

Yeah, I mainly like will try if it's not something that I'm planned for, I don't get grief, and it's pretty easy for me to sort of just like, if I'm going to go some to some of his house or to a party, I'll bring, you know, my own, like, food that, you know, I'm going to share, but it'll be food that I know I can eat. So that really makes it easier for me to, you know, eat, you know, while I'm there. And then, you know, I can usually have my choice of different kinds of drinks. So somehow I can I make it work. And it doesn't seem to bother anybody. I think that I did probably get well, I, my daughters say that I probably lost maybe too much weight in the beginning. Because, again, it was sort of like the momentum like just like I was just continuing continuing just to see how far I could take it. And I felt like I was doing okay. But like, they're like, when they saw me and came to visit for Thanksgiving, they're like, Yeah, you should probably like, you know, even it out a little bit now, maybe cut back a little bit on the cut fasting, because you look really good.

But you know, you don't need to lose any more weight. So, so I think there is a tipping point, you know, where, because the, the ketones or the ketosis, like, it does make you feel really good. And it does make you feel like you have a lot of energy. And so moving past a meal does kind of feel effortless. So just being mindful of the fact that like, Oh, yeah, you still need to get that nutrition in though, because that's really what's, you know, gonna make your body performance fast. So rate it rated it a little bit. You

Melanie Avalon
if you need to, yeah. Yeah, so you said you lost around 20 pounds since September?

Pamela Wakeman
Since September, yeah. I mean, I started back in, I started HRT, like your hormone replacement therapy around June. And I swim quite a bit. So I lost about 15 pounds from just the hormone replacement and the additional exercise.

And then when I found fasting, that really like was the additional, I guess, trigger that I needed to lose the extra, you know, weight that I gained over the, I guess, you know, over 20 years, I really did just sort of, because I did, didn't pay much attention. And I was raising kids and I was cooking for them. And I just didn't pay much attention to, to myself. Really, I wasn't taking care of myself. And that's one of the great things about menopause is that, you know, you do find, finally find the time to take care of yourself and realize that your importance

Melanie Avalon
I love that. And I will say to the HRT point, I recently posted in the Facebook group, a post asking people's opinion on HRT. And I don't think I have ever had so many enthusiastic responses.

Like literally, there was, well, A, so many responses, B, every single one was like shouting to the rooftops about how it changed their life. So I was like, oh, I need to dive into this some more. So I'm glad that that was really helpful for your experience.

Pamela Wakeman
I did get the same, I don't know if this is a thing, but if you've heard of this before, but I went to my doctor and she gave me a hard time. I took the hormone testing or the blood test that said you're definitely in menopause, your hormone levels definitely show signs of that you've been in menopause for a while, so it was probably 55 at the time or 54. So I thought the next, you know, obvious next step would be to go on hormone replacement therapy. It was kind of tough to get her to agree to it and so I really had to kind of go outside of my, you know, normal doctors and go online and find, you know, like an online prescriber who would be able to do that for me.

You know, there's lots of them out there now, but at the time it seemed kind of risky because I didn't know anybody else who was doing that kind of thing, but now it's just so much more prevalent because, you know, there is this hesitancy from doctors to just sort of prescribe it because of whatever risk factors that came along with like studies that were back in the 90s that had these different sort of like alerts to that women like shouldn't be taking hormone replacement therapy because of breast cancer risks or blood clotting risks and things like that. So I just felt like I was a good candidate for it. I knew my health, you know, history and I didn't have the kind of risks that they were talking about. So in order to get what I needed, I had to go outside of my normal doctors. I'm glad I did because I got the help I needed and now I'm looking for new doctors.

Melanie Avalon
I should honestly try to do an episode on this and Peter Atea, I don't know if you listen to him. You said you do. Yes. Yeah. So he has so many amazing episodes on this, which is basically, there was like this study that drew conclusions about HRT and breast cancer in women, but it was completely like just not accurate in it and how it presented the risk. And it basically made all these doctors fearful of HRT when the risks just from what, if you listen to him, you'll just be like, okay, they're just not there.

There's like really a lot of benefits that can come. And so it's interesting, especially because pharmaceuticals usually are so easy to be pushed. It's really interesting to me that it's taken so long to come back from that study and the findings of that study. Yeah. Kudos to you too. Being like, no, I need this.

Pamela Wakeman
Well, I mean, I had an x-ray when I was having my hip done and they noticed a fracture in like in my back. I didn't, you know, I wasn't going to him for any issues with my back, but he noticed this and he said, you need to go get a DEXA scan to find out what's going on there.

And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, what is happening? Like, I don't understand, you know, why my bone, what's happening to me? Why are my bones suddenly like, and you know, obviously women in menopause, their bones start to, you know, there's bone density is a thing. And so I realized that taking the HRT actually is really good for bone density. And one of the best reasons to take HRT is to maintain bone density, you know, the years, you know, as you get older. So even if it wasn't for, you know, the other symptoms that I had, I might still take it just for that reason alone because of the fracture that I had in my back. So there's that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I'm so, so glad you found that out. Okay. Well, this has been so, so amazing. I think it's really, really empowering for people to hear and just like, I really, really love your mindset and approach to all of this. It's so, I love how you like seek out all these things and you try them and you find what works. It's just really, really amazing and incredible.

What would you like to leave listeners with when people ask you about intermittent fasting for people who, you know, are struggling or haven't even tried it? Like what is your, your big go-to advice or final thought for, for people on fasting?

Pamela Wakeman
It's not something to be feared, it's fasting is something that empowers you to take control of your own health instead of like leaving your health choices and decisions in the hands, all of your choices in the hands of your doctor. You do have choices that you can make on your own and this one has so many potential benefits that it's at least worth a try, you know, move into it slowly and there's no need to rush into it.

I'm one of those people who like wanted to go all in full, you know, 72 hours all at once and that will not work. It just won't work. I mean, you can power through but you'll never want to fast again after that if that's your first experience with it. That's just it's too much too soon. So definitely just try it and you might be surprised for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I love this so much.

Well, thank you so much, Pamela. Thank you for coming here and sharing your story and all the things. It was, I really had a wonderful time. It was awesome.

And Pamela, how can people best follow your work, all the things?

Pamela Wakeman
Yes, I have a website for Pamela Wakeman Wellness, where I am a certified health coach with open source wellness. And I am also working toward my credential for board certification for health coaching.

And one of the requirements for the certification is that I offer free health coaching to anybody who is looking for health coaching or wants to try it to see if that's something that's for them. And so I thought I'd offer, you know, at least three free sessions to get them started and it's all volunteer basis. But if it's something that, you know, your audience is interested in, I definitely have, like I said, the certification for the Fast Like a Girl coaching, but I'm also health and wellness coaching. So anything under the gamut, I'm definitely, you know, able to accommodate.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. So how can people do they just go to your website or how can people contact you for that?

Pamela Wakeman
Yeah, you can email me at Pamela at PamelaWakemanWellness.com or phwakeman at gmail.com. Either one will hit me and let me know if you're interested.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome. Well, congrats in advance on that.

And for listeners, we will put all of that in the show notes as well. So Pamela Wakeman, wellness.com. The show notes will be at I a podcast.com slash episode 421. And we talked about a lot of things. So definitely check out those show notes. There'll be a full transcript there as well. And if you would like to be a guest on the show, we would love, love to hear your story and have you. So you can actually go to I a podcast.com slash submit and there is a submission form there. So check out that link. And if you have questions for the show, you can directly email questions at I a podcast.com. All right, Pamela. Well, thank you again. So so much. I am sending you all the love and all the good vibes on your journey and we'll have to talk again in the future. Great. I look forward to it. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the intermittent fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team editing by podcast doctors, show notes, and artwork, library on a joiner and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

May 02

Episode 420 – Fasting And Memory Consolidation, Fasting To Improve Or Hinder Memory, Changing Your Macros, Urolithin A Longevity Supplement, Continuous Glucose Monitors, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 420 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

SHOW NOTES


SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS


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Timeline Nutrition’s Mitopure provides a precise, clinically tested dose of Urolithin A, a powerful postbiotic that supports healthy aging by promoting mitophagy - the body's natural process of clearing out damaged mitochondria. By enhancing mitochondrial health, Mitopure can boost energy, improve sleep, support faster workout recovery, and increase overall vitality. Get 10% off your order of Mitopure with code ifpodcast at timeline.com/ifpodcast.


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LMNT

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LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠⁠Keens Steakhouse


STUDIES

⁠⁠The Effect of Fasting on Human Memory Consolidation


If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)


Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 420 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 420 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
I'm doing great.

Melanie Avalon
What is new?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, so much is new. I've shared this with you before, but I am so excited because after a year-long process of working on this, and it's been so hard, so tedious, so nerve-wracking, I found out that my green card application has been approved.

It's been approved, so I get to finally live up my dream of living in America, working in America. I'm so stoked. I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm so excited that we're sharing this.

Okay, friends, actually, Barry, you didn't get to see my reaction because you told me in a voice message, like I wasn't talking to you in real time. I, I audibly gasped. Like, you know, like when you open your mouth wide and gas very dramatically, I did that, but it was genuine. I was so excited.

Barry Conrad
I'm still on cloud nine. I just I can't believe it.

It's it's it's such a hard feat to achieve and it's the odds are against you. They're not in your favor. So for this to happen and Melanie, you even know I've talked about this forever. Like I want to live in America. It's my New York's my favorite city and for this to be happening. I'm so grateful. So excited beyond.

Melanie Avalon
I am so proud of you. So excited. We're going to be on the same time zone. You're going to take over America. America needs Barry Conrad. I think that's how I ended my letter of recommendation.

Barry Conrad
Listeners, we can talk about this now, but Melanie very kindly wrote me a letter of recommendation and she actually did say that. American is very kind.

Melanie Avalon
It's the truth.

Barry Conrad
But I like you just said it, just said what you wanted to say.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, man. This is so exciting.

Like, so like when you move here, because you do so much creatively with, you know, your podcasts, your acting, other adventures, all the things. Do you have a sense of what you're going to like focus on here in the US or

Barry Conrad
I do and it's still taking shape, but I definitely have a sense of what I want to do and what I want to focus on. I think as well what I'm doing here and just being based over there is a good starting point.

Like not trying to break the mold of what works for me. It's just exploring new territory. It's a whole new kettle of fish for me, which is so exciting. It's not scary for me at all. It's just inspiring really. So yeah, the world's my oyster literally, even though you don't like oysters.

Melanie Avalon
I know we got to work on that phrase. The world is your.

Barry Conrad
Steak tartar? No, it doesn't. No.

Melanie Avalon
The world is your carpaccio.

Barry Conrad
The world is your kapachiyo.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to start saying that.

Barry Conrad
You should start saying it and see if it catches on.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just going to say it like it's normal and see what people say.

Barry Conrad
But Melanie gets with this also means what we get to meet in real life. We get to do our restaurant segment in real life.

You know what would be really cool is one time actually doing it. Being there in real time, that'd be an experience. Imagine that.

Melanie Avalon
A podcast, like record the restaurant part. Yeah. Record the restaurant part at the restaurant. Yeah. That sounds so complicated. I support.

Barry Conrad
But even like we get to eat together in any case.

Melanie Avalon
You know, I'm already uncomfortable about eating. Like, I cover my mouth when I eat in front of people, so this is a lot to take in.

Barry Conrad
Your listeners i've asked about this and like are you cuz i've been on some dates in the past where.

I'll cover the mouth of look away or tell me to look away like we cut this is not gonna work if you got in front of me.

Melanie Avalon
I was like, I might casually look away, but I will not tell you to look away.

Barry Conrad
Do you cover your mouth so well after how many bites do you, how does this work?

Melanie Avalon
It's like you eat the bite and then you, you kind of like, I'm like reenacting it right now in real life to see what I do. You know, you put the bite in and you kind of just like cover a little bit and then you, and then you're chewing. So then it's okay.

Cause like, there's the whole moment of, I don't know, there's just a lot. You got to have a good like mise-en-scene of the scene and like everything. And you don't want to distract people with the food in your mouth. Mise-en-scene? Yeah. Like, like the setup of the, of the, of the scene needs to all be good. Read the room.

I had another thought about that really quickly. What, what was it? Okay. Wait, the world is your Carpaccio. Oh, can you please, can I make a request of you? Can you please do something on Broadway?

Barry Conrad
I would actually love to do that and that's actually i'm putting it out there in the universe right now when you ask me this question just before would you like to focus on one of the things i definitely want to be able to say that i've done. At least to at least do one broadway show i would love that and it's doable i can do it.

Melanie Avalon
I will be there front row, center.

Barry Conrad
You'll be there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and and my second request, can you please so much stuff shoots in Atlanta? Can you please book a project in Atlanta?

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to and you know what all these things are like so much more realistic once you're there It's just so much harder to do from here

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, what if you book like a series that shoots in Atlanta and then you just like live here?

Barry Conrad
That's very possible. It'll be wild. A friend of mine was on, have you heard of Dynasty?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Is that shoot here?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and they're shot there for like five seasons and he lives in LA, so.

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh. See? Well, did he move to Atlanta for that or did he just like...

Barry Conrad
Yeah, he was a serious regular, so every season he'd have to relocate down there, then go back in between. Yeah, crazy, right?

Melanie Avalon
lots of stuff shoots here like a lot of stuff so you could get an atlanta agent once you're here not like your only agent but like a agent here you know

Barry Conrad
So many things.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like things coming through. I gotta give you one other thing. Oh wait, so Broadway, Atlanta.

Barry Conrad
And three, I like that.

Melanie Avalon
art just our dinner where I will taste an oyster and then never have an oyster again.

Barry Conrad
You know what, it might change your life, but anyway, what were you going to say I interrupted you?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that was it. That's the third thing is getting dinner.

Barry Conrad
Well, yeah, that's a that's a given we have to what do you mean? I think we that's that's how I know

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. It came to me. Okay.

Number three, can you please perform at Epcot as a celebrity guest in the Christmas candlelight processional that they do? And I will come to that as well.

Barry Conrad
I would love to do that. I need to remember all these things. Well, I'll write it down afterwards because they all sound exciting and within my reach, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Okay. I'm pumped. Listeners, I hope listeners are pumped too.

Oh, and then also the exciting thing is Barry will get to try out more of our products on the show because shipping to Australia is crazy sometimes.

Barry Conrad
Yep, that's definitely a bonus.

Melanie Avalon
send you all the things. Okay.

Barry Conrad
What about you? I haven't asked you how you are. I've just been talking.

Melanie Avalon
I am, no, no, I am good. Even better now after talking about that because it makes me so happy.

I'm actually, so this is way in advance. We're recording this way in advance, but I am launching next week my EMF blocking product line that I talked about last week, I think, or I think I talked about recently. So listeners, friends, check that out. It's at avlonxemf.us. And I have rose gold and black air tubes, which are basically headphones, they are free of EMF, they stop EMF from going from your phone to your brain, because the IARC does classify EMFs as a group to be carcinogen. Yes, I'm really excited about that. That's so exciting. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm really excited about that. I'm also really excited because come May, when this airs, hopefully we'll be closer to launching my glow coffee line. So listeners, stay tuned.

Barry Conrad
So many things, Melanie. And also you've been talking about your creation for so long, right? And now it's finally coming to fruition. So that's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
I know it's so nice to iterate on something and dream it up in your head and then finally have it materialize in the physical form. It's exciting, especially if it's something that you want personally in your life, which everything I make is things that I want personally in my life.

Also one other thing before we jump into fasting stuff, although this does relate to fasting, we have a new sponsor on the show and I haven't told you this yet, Barry, I am a bit obsessed. I didn't think I would be. I've kind of been shying away from all the supplements all the time. I don't have my own line, but there's kind of like could be like an overload of supplement feeling in the world and it can be a little bit overwhelming. But this brand reached out, they're called Timeline. They make products powered by this ingredient called Midopure. And what Midopure is, is actually an absorbable form of urolithin A and urolithin A is something I have been, I keep reading about it in a lot of the books that I read, like the biohacking world, I keep seeing this word and I hadn't really looked into it too much. But what's really important about it, it's the compound itself, urolithin A has so many health benefits. I started looking up the studies and it's an overwhelming amount of trials for so many things like inflammation, longevity, mitophagy, which is breaking down old dysfunctional mitochondria and making new mitochondria. There's just so many health benefits to it. And what's really interesting is whether or not you create it in your body, it's created by our gut microbiome, it's created by our microbiome from foods we eat, but you have to have the microbiome to create it and not everybody does. So it's this really potentially powerful longevity ingredient that you actually might not be getting because you just don't have the gut microbes to make it, which is so sad. So what timeline is doing is they make it in a supplemental form and I have noticed, I think it's really affecting my sleep. I have noticed... Really? Yeah. Like actually. I was not anticipating that. Now I wake up more because I take it at night and I wake up more with like a much more rested feeling. You know that feeling when you feel rested versus not? Like I wake up with that and I used to take a nap daily and I haven't been doing that much anymore either. So that's something I've noticed. It's interesting because I looked up the connection to sleep and there's not a lot of research on it for sleep, which I thought was interesting, but I'm just excited because it's a great longevity supplement. It's endorsed by so many of my friends. When I first went to the website, it's like so many guests I've had on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. So listeners definitely check it out. I now plan to take this for the rest of my life and the code I have podcast. We don't have the actual code yet, but the code I have podcast should give you a discount. So check that out, friends. And Barry, once you come here, we'll get you some.

Barry Conrad
You know what you said, Melanie, especially because you, I know historically you really prioritize your sleep. Like you're on top of like your routine winding down. So for you to say that timelines impacted your sleep even more in a good way is huge.

So that's exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I feel weird saying it because like I said, I really have noticed it and that's the thing I've changed. I'm really confused why I couldn't find more studies like looking at sleep. They need to do them because that's what I'm noticing. Yeah, it's just great for energy, longevity, all the things.

So okay, now shall we jump into fasting related things?

Barry Conrad
We'd love that. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I found a study for today and it's called The Effect of Fasting on Human Memory Consolidation. And it was published very recently, March 2025, in Neurobiology of Learning and Memory. Yeah, it's actually one of the most recent studies that's been published. What I thought was really interesting about it was they were looking at fasting and how it affects memory recall. And they talk about how like consolidation of memory, like they were specifically looking at how it affects consolidation of memory and then memory recall. And they talked about how that typically relies on sleep, but they're positing or proposing that maybe fasting also is involved in like memory encoding formation and recall.

And so they did two different experiments, both experiments had 16 men in them and they looked at the effects of doing a facet period. So like in the experiment one, they did an 18.5 hour fast and looked at how it affected recall with encoding like word related memories. And they compared that to the fed state. So in the second experiment, they also looked at fasting versus fed and they looked at a different type of memory, which is an episodic memory. It's more related to events and episodic like moments in your life compared to just like word recall. And what's really interesting about what they found, they found for the first experiment that the participants performed better and fasting helped their word related memory. But for the second experiment, it actually impaired it. And then they looked at another type of memory called procedural memory and that had no effect either way. So basically what they concluded was that fasting does seem to affect memory, but it depends on the type of memory as to whether you're going to be benefited by fasting or if it's better to be fed. I thought that was really interesting.

Barry Conrad
Interesting. That's really interesting. So hold on. So what you were saying about the episodic memory improved, but the procedural memory? No.

Melanie Avalon
other way around. So the the word related recall memory, that improved. The episodic memory got worse when they were fasted.

And then the procedural memory, which was where they were like tapping with their fingers and things that did that just didn't affect it either way.

Barry Conrad
Hmm interesting. I wonder I wonder why that happens though. I wonder how that works mechanically

Melanie Avalon
They said the results suggest that fasting in humans preferentially supports the consolidation of semantic-like memory representations involving neocortical rather than hippocampal networks. So basically, memory related to a certain part of our brain, the neocortex, that seems to be benefited by fasting, but not ones more related to the hippocampus.

Barry Conrad
I wonder what a scenario could be to break down for a listener's like between those two, the one that was improved and the one that was not, that one that was made worse, like in everyday life. Do what? Like, you know, what a scenario would be to demonstrate that. So episodic, so something related to a moment in your life and then word related. So word related, yeah.

Do you think you have a scenario that you could share that might paint that picture for listeners or for me?

Melanie Avalon
The one that got better is when you think of like memorizing a list of words type thing. And then the second one was more about remembering a memory associated with space and time. So like this happened at this time, this happened here.

Barry Conrad
It's interesting because when when I'm learning lines, for example, especially if I'm in the fasted state, I'm so razor focused and my mind so sharp and I can retain things so easily. Personally speaking, and I think I've mentioned that is one of my benefits as well, just that razor sharp focus.

So that tracks from what the study is saying.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I'm thinking about it more so, because for my own personal experience, and if I were to like need to memorize like a list of words or lines or something like that, it would like facet would be so much better for me, like 100%. I would not want to memorize things in the in the fed state.

But if you think about a more experiential, and I hope I'm saying this correctly from the study, but maybe like a memory where you're having dinner with friends, like compared to a fasted walk with friends, like maybe you would remember the dinner situation more.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I totally get that. Because like what you're saying, Melanie, as well, like, I know, and I think now only on reflection, I can say this, I just habitually don't eat and then go to learn lines or anything because I know I'm gonna feel more sluggish because my body's processing the food. It's more like a winding down kind of vibe. Do you know what I mean?

So I'll wait to stay in that, that fasted state so I can focus and then after that's all done, then I'll start eating and relax. Isn't that interesting how that Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's it's so interesting. So I hope they do more studies on it.

And I also find it really interesting how they were comparing it to to sleep and saying basically that historically we thought sleep was where all the memory consolidation happens and encoding but maybe some of it happens in the fastest state to

Barry Conrad
That's so interesting. Very unexpected. I wasn't expecting you to bring that study on memory.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I wasn't expecting what they found because when I saw the title, I was like, oh, yeah, it's going to say fasting helps, always helps memory. And then, nope. It depends on the type. But I wouldn't just as a disclaimer, I wouldn't be worried about this.

It's not like you're not going to remember stuff in the fasted state. I don't want to freak anybody out with that. This was looking at very subtle nuances and testing people with memory tests.

Barry Conrad
Mm. That's an awesome study, Mel. Killed it. It was great.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you, thank you, thank you. All righty, shall we jump into some listener questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's answer some of your questions, listeners.

Melanie Avalon
So, the first question comes from Chrissy and we got this question on Facebook and Chrissy says, is there any benefit to doing higher protein, low-fat, low-carb days and then higher carb days, etc.? So I think she's asking about higher protein with low-fat, low-carb and then probably higher protein, wait, so low-fat and low-carb and then higher carb. I'm not sure if she's asking like a very specific protocol or like, you know, changing these macros around like this, but in any case, what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
OK, well, Chrissy, hey, how's it going? Hope you're having a good day. Thank you for your question. I love this question because it taps into what's sort of called nutrient periodization. So that means adjusting your macros, protein, carbs, fats, for anyone who doesn't know that. And based on your goals, activity, your fasting schedule, the short answer, I personally think there can be benefits because it just depends whether it's right for you and what you're trying to achieve.

Let's break it down. So people who do higher protein, lower fat, lower carb days, it's almost like a lean protein fast to help with things like satiety, calorie control, muscle preservation. Personally speaking, I've done this as well myself, especially if you're trying to cut or focus on fat loss. I've done that short term to prepare for acting roles and photo shoots. And protein is the most thermogenic macronutrient. And for people that don't know what that means, it's basically more energy to digest and keep you fuller for longer, which helps with fasting. But if you go too low, Chrissy, on the fats for too long, you might start messing with hormonal balance because fats do play such a massive role in things like estrogen, testosterone, and overall metabolic function. With higher carb days, those tend to be pretty useful for people who do a lot of high intensity workouts or endurance training because carbs refill glycogen stores in the muscles, helping with recovery and performance. So some people find that cycling the high carb day can help them feel more energized or improve their sleep. Even things like thyroid function, which can slow down if you're in a calorie deficit or fasting for too long. So a lot of people who do IF, they'll cycle through their macros based on their workout intensity. So for example, on heavy training days, for example, resistance training, HIIT training, long cardio sessions, they might eat more carbs. While on lighter or less days, they might go lower carb and higher fat. So that way, your body's always getting what it needs, crispy without overloading on the energy when it's not necessary.

Again, from personal experience, I'd take in more carbs on those bigger training days. So for today, after I finish the podcast, I'll be heading to the gym later, have more carbs afterwards when I eat. And if you're playing around with this approach, listen to your body, pay attention to things like your energy levels, recovery, muscle weight tension, and your hunger cues. Because I reckon some people thrive on that higher protein, lower fat days. But again, it's quite individual. Other people feel better with more balanced macros across the board. So if your goal is fat loss while maintaining your muscle, the biggest thing I'm going to keep on saying repetitively is hitting your protein, your total protein target, and making sure you're fueling your workouts properly. So macros can be, macrocycling can be beneficial. But it's not something you have to do, I reckon, to see results. It's just a tool like anything else.

But keep us posted, Chrissy. Let us know how you go. Melanie, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. You touched on so many incredible, amazing things.

This actually reminded me because I saw a question in Facebook yesterday, and somebody was asking when I talk about these different macros, and I talk about like high carb or low carb, am I referring to vegetables? And I was like, that's actually a good clarification to make. So when I'm talking about, and I'd be curious, bear your thoughts, when I'm talking about high carb or low carb, I'm primarily talking about starchy carbs, fruit, not like lettuce and spinach and things like that. Although I will say like something like broccoli, I mean, that's probably always going to be like really low carb, unless you're eating like pounds and pounds and pounds and cooking it really well, then it actually is pretty sweet, which wouldn't really matter unless you're, you know, doing a super, super low keto diet. But in general, yes, like green veggies, I'm not including in the carb thing. Are you the same?

Barry Conrad
Definitely for me, how I classify high carb to me is when I'm getting into those potatoes and lots of rice, even bread sometimes, which is pretty rare, but potatoes, rice, that's what I classify as sort of high carb for me.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Yes. So yes. And so Chrissy, I agree.

I agree literally with everything Barry said, I find it so interesting because I don't know if we're ever going to escape this ongoing debate that we have about do macros actually like affect weight loss? Or is it always just calories? I think that's going to be the ongoing debate. Some people will say that, well, maybe maybe macros do have a metabolic effect, but the metabolic effect actually makes you, you know, not burn as many calories or, and it's so like confusing with all of the debates. But I think regardless, even if it does come down to calories, the metabolic effects from switching things up do lead to a different output or input of calories. Barry touched on a lot of these things for your metabolism, for example, some people might find that especially doing the higher protein low fat, low carb, like Barry said, that is sort of like a protein sparing modified fast, the protein is supportive of your metabolism. At the same time, if you're doing that a lot, you know, your your metabolism might adjust a little bit and having those higher carb days can have a metabolic boost for you. They can help especially for like women, they can help with thyroid hormones. Definitely. Some people sleep fine on low carb ongoing, but others don't. And they really find that those carbs help them sleep. So I'm glad that Barry touched on that. He's the expert on like working out and fueling activity with carbs. So I won't speak to that. But everything he said about that, I agree with. There's so many different like approaches to this. And like one thing that people will do, who came up with the one where you have like the one refeed a week with carbs?

Barry Conrad
Oh, I've heard about this. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I did that for a while. And it can be really powerful for people because basically you do like six days of low carb, you're in a fat burning mode. And then you have this like carb up day and the big hack there because some people will be like, Oh, it's a cheat day eat all the things like all the fat eat all the carbs, all the things. True, maybe you won't make up for it in one day only. But a lot of calories can be consumed, especially if you're having carbs and fat together on that up day, you know, you're probably just gonna store a lot of that fat and it might create slower progress.

So I think the biggest hack there is if you're doing that sort of approach, you go six days low carb and then on your carb up day, you don't add a lot of fat. So you just do like high carb and eat like all the high carb things and then literally you're just getting the metabolic boost, you're helping your your satiety hormones, your sleep, all the things and you're not also even if you like went crazy and ate all the things, if you keep it lower fat, it's unlikely that you're actually gonna even gain much fat from that up day, even though you might probably you're probably gonna put on a bit of water weight. But you know, I definitely think I think listening to your body seasonal eating can be really helpful for people. So some people do while eating lower carb and the like in the winter and then having higher carb in the spring and summer, I do think eating in line with the seasons, just naturally it makes sense for our bodies. I think it can have really helpful effects. But yes, it really is very individual. So you have to see how you react.

But if you ever find yourself on a plateau or switching up your macros, I think can be really helpful. Oh, and also some people, they get on low carb keto and then they get like terrified of carbs. And I had that experience in the past, like I was low carb for a long time and I was terrified. I thought if I brought back carbs, I would gain weight. And this was like a decade ago. Interestingly, I actually lost more weight when I brought back carbs.

I switched from like a higher fat, low carb to a higher carb, low fat. I realized I preferred it. I will occasionally do a low carb night. I do one like the other night, but yeah, I like my fruit too much now.

Barry Conrad
You love your fruit.

Melanie Avalon
I love my fruit, yeah, my blueberries.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, blueberry is the best for the win. What is your definition for you for like your high carb days versus not like to eat more?

Melanie Avalon
Like how many carbs do I eat?

Barry Conrad
Or not even just the counting the macros but what sort of carbs like sort of what sort of vegetables or yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I'm crazy and very regimented. So I basically always eat, as listeners probably know by now, lots of cucumbers, lots of protein. That's like my staple.

So like lots of cucumbers, lots of protein. And then usually I have lots of fruit with it as well. If I'm doing a low carb day, I just don't eat the fruit and have a little bit more protein. It might have a little bit more fatty meat, but I don't really, there's not a lot of swapping out. It's kind of, it's more the presence or absence of the fruit.

Barry Conrad
Right. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
Okay.

Barry Conrad
I bought, I bought one cucumber last night, like a, like a big continental cucumber. And that's probably like one of like a billion that you have that you consume, but I just bought one.

Melanie Avalon
I know I see people. So when I go buy my cucumbers, I see other people like buying their cucumbers and they buy like one or two. I'm like this, I just and I'm doing it today. Because people will spend so long trying to find like the perfect cucumber, but I'm buying like 30. So I don't have time for that. I just I'm just like grabbing all of them.

Barry Conrad
The thing is that i think they pretty feeling like it fills you up like to you know.

Melanie Avalon
It's so hydrating. I just love it. And I eat the majority of it. So I juice it, I drink the juice, and I eat the pulp.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow. I like it with salt and pepper, just like the crunch. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
You said continental cucumber? You mean, are those like the, what are those? Are those the long ones?

Barry Conrad
Is this another one of those geographical divides?

Melanie Avalon
We've got, but it starts with a C, I think. Oh, no, we have.

Barry Conrad
They're the long ones. So not the Lebanese ones. So the Lebanese ones are, I think, smaller. Listen, as we're trying to differentiate how we say it in Australia versus America. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, you're right. Okay, so continental cucumbers, known as telegraph or burpless cucumbers, long, thin, dark green. I gotta look at a picture.

Barry Conrad
Because maybe I'm having different ones to you.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yes, that's the type. That's the type I eat.

Did you know that there are lemon cucumbers? What do you mean? I grew one once in my arrow garden. It only produced one fruit, but it produced it. It was so cute. It's like a little it's like a round cucumber.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna look it up. Hold on, 11k power?

Melanie Avalon
It's like a round cucumber that looks like a lemon, but the inside is like a cucumber. It's so cute. I need to try to grow it again.

Barry Conrad
It looks like an orange, but if you cut people half it, it looks like the inside of a cucumber. That's wild.

Melanie Avalon
It was so cute. My cucumbers are going crazy right now. They're growing like they're doing well. Do you grow stuff in your apartment?

Barry Conrad
I don't I don't but you know what when I do move to New York I'm gonna endeavor to try to grow some things because I do I'm around a lot I have a lot of mates and family who have gardens and grow vegetables and I think it's great I know how to harvest them pick them and stuff so I think it'd be fun.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that'll be better than me. I don't, I don't grow in like the dirt or anything. All mine are hydroponic.

Barry Conrad
Of course they are.

Melanie Avalon
I like no mess and I like the machine just taking care of it. But I do give it water and I do talk to them.

Barry Conrad
You talked though?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah.

Barry Conrad
What do you say?

Melanie Avalon
I just talk to them. I'm like, Oh, how are you doing? And then sometimes they sometimes they go rogue and they try to grow up the wrong areas. I'm like, No, no, no, we need to grow over here.

And then I moved them. Like, can you just please grab this window pane? Don't suffocate that other plan.

Barry Conrad
Melanie giving her vegetables pep talks. Like, no, no, no, not like that, like this. Come on.

Melanie Avalon
They're so alive once you start growing them, you'll see they're like they're alive They're so cute because they said you know how they send out the tent the tendrils Yeah It like the plants like send out little tendrils that like grab things like arms and they wrap around and they're very intelligent

Barry Conrad
I do know that's true, but it's just funny to hear you vocalize this up to where you talk about this before.

Melanie Avalon
I don't actually, I feel bad now because I only talk to the cucumbers. I don't talk to the flowers or the cilantro.

They don't have like personality. They're not trying to grow up thing, like grow up my windows.

Barry Conrad
By the way, another thing that's different, cilantro, we call that coriander in Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Coriander for us is the seed of cilantro. What do you call the seed of cilantro?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there's coriander, but we just, like, grab a bunch of coriander. When I went to the States one of the first times, I'm like, I wanted to make some guacamole.

And I said, you guys have coriander? What? Like, coriander. Uh, we don't, we don't have that.

Melanie Avalon
Because we do have coriander, but it's a seed. It's like a spice.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And she's like, ah, cilantro. Yeah, we have cilantro. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. One other thing Barry just learned, he learned about Sarah versus, what do you call it, Shiraz?

Barry Conrad
Shiraz that's that blew my mind all this time. I didn't know you called it that

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you've never heard of Surah?

Barry Conrad
I'm sure I've heard that, but I just, I'm surprised. I didn't, I wasn't expecting that because yeah, I've never seen that on a shelf in a wine shop or anything in the States.

So I don't know. That's surprising.

Melanie Avalon
You're gonna see it tomorrow, I bet, because now your brain's looking for it.

Barry Conrad
Mmm. Syrah.

Melanie Avalon
Sarah.

Barry Conrad
So S.

Melanie Avalon
Y-R-A-H

Barry Conrad
It's Y-R-A, oh okay, wow, okay.

Melanie Avalon
So tangents, but yes, Chrissy definitely let us know how it goes with switching up the days.

Barry Conrad
Please let us know, Chrissie.

Melanie Avalon
Shall we answer another question?

Barry Conrad
Martin asks, I monitor mine daily with a glucometer. I want to try a continuous glucometer. Which one do you suggest? How long should I use it to get a good sense of its value?

I'm curious about what goes on for the 12 hours after my one meal a day at night, and understand the dawn effect a little bit more. Yeah, what do you think, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
So, continuous glucose monitors, CGM's, they are sensors that you put onto your arm and then they measure your blood sugar 24 seven. We actually, if you check out episode 409 of the show, we had Kara Collier on the show. I've had her on a few times and she is a co-founder of Nutrisense, CGM, which is my, I love that brand so much. But by putting on a CGM, you can definitely get a good sense of how your blood sugar is responding to your meals.

So, if you want to check out Nutrisense, you can go to nutrisense.com slash ifpodcast and use the code ifpodcast that will get you a discount. I think it's $30 off and a free month of nutritionist support. And what's really great about Nutrisense is it helps you make sense of the data and really understand it. So, you're not just looking at numbers and not knowing what it means and you can chat with them in the app. You'll learn so much. The Dawn Effect, what Martin is referring to, it's basically this effect where we naturally get a boost in cortisol in the early morning, which releases glucose into the bloodstream from glycogen in the liver. And so, you can get a spike in your blood sugar levels when you wake up, even though you're fasted. I mean, I personally notice this when I wake up for sure. It's good to note, be aware of it because you might think that you're having a problematic rise in your blood sugar level when really it might just be from this Dawn Effect, which is actually a natural part of the body or like a natural process. You haven't worn a CGM, right? Or have you?

Barry Conrad
I haven't yet, but I really plan to, again, another thing that I can add to the list when I'm in America, and they're shipped to it.

Melanie Avalon
All the America things!

Barry Conrad
I want to be swamped today. I tried to see GM today. I tried this too. I said, yeah, it's going to be like Christmas.

Melanie Avalon
Do you have access to CGMs? Can you get them with a prescription or over the counter?

Barry Conrad
I don't know, but over the counter, I think with a subscription. I think you can prescription.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yeah. Cause I know some countries are opening up and actually I think they opened up here. I think now you can actually get them without a prescription, but really, I think so.

I think we talked about that with, with Kara, but going through Nutrisense, it's just so great because like I said, they make it easy, seamless, and they really help you make sense of the data. You know, you, you get way more information than you would from just if you were to buy one over the counter and the support's amazing.

Barry Conrad
what did you find when you used a CGM mill? Was anything surprising that you found?

Melanie Avalon
I think I was surprised a few things. I was surprised that the first time I ever did it, I was happy to see that my exuberant amount of fruit that I eat every night actually wasn't creating problems with my blood sugar. I would get a spike, a decent spike after it, but it would go back down. I did an experiment where I had a CGM and I ate some gluten-free cereal. That was so eye-opening, I was like, whoa, okay, now I know.

How high my blood sugar went was insane. I don't remember what it was, but it was very high. I was like, wow, this is so telling. That was the moment where I was like, wow, if everybody, because what I ate was like normal, standard American diet with people eat, and this was like a paleo-gluten-free version from Whole Foods, it really made me realize if people could just do this once where CGM and see this, it would, I think it would have a massive effect. Another amazing thing I saw was I saw just how powerful my Avalon-X Burbrane was because I'd been using, well, eight Burbrane in general. Before ever using Burbrane, and then I started using Thorn Burbrane, and I saw a nice effect with the CGM, and then I saw an even better effect when I started using my Avalon-X Burbrane. So yeah, it was nice to see.

Barry Conrad
I wonder what I'd find if when I use it, like what would be, like what I might be surprised to find moving here. I know I'm dying to know.

Cause I eat a lot of protein. I don't eat a, I don't eat a whole lot of carbs. I do sometimes, but not really. It's pretty high protein diet. So I don't know what I'd find.

Melanie Avalon
you might find it's also nice to see what alcohol does too. Alcohol actually stops the liver from releasing glycogen into the bloodstream. So it can actually reduce blood sugar levels. So that's the reason I find it really beneficial with meals.

So good. All right, speaking of meals, should we have our hypothetical proverbial, not real fake in our minds, but still fun, fast breaking?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it, all of the above.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, so the purpose of this friends is to showcase fun restaurants and also emphasize just the true importance of what you eat and breaking your fast is just as important as the fast. Because if you just do the fasting, you actually are not going to get the benefits. You need that feeding period to build the muscle, restore the immune system, actually grow stronger. So the magic happens in both the fasting and the feeding.

Exactly. What restaurant did you pick, Barry?

Barry Conrad
Drumroll. So today's restaurant is called Keene's Steakhouse. And Keene's Steakhouse is in my favorite city, New York, New York City. And a little bit about Keene's. It survived the prohibition, two world wars, the Great Depression. It's one of New York's most unchanged historic restaurants.

It's also, Melanie, you'd like this. It was the go to spot for Broadway actors and playwrights back in the day. Theater stars would sneak out during intermissions for a quick meal there. The walls are lined with like vintage playbills.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, wait, wait, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. Performers would be performing during intermission would go have a meal.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, before heading back on stage, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I can barely have time to go to the bathroom during intermission.

Barry Conrad
Must be close to must be right there the other walls are lined with vintage labels and theater memorabilia so it's it's right deep in there also another thing that's interesting was for decades it's the only it was a man only establishment so women weren't allowed to die in there but. A british actress lily landry took them to court after they refused her entry she won the case and then now it's open to females but so many facts about it it's amazing and the menu looks delicious i'm gonna send you the links you can check it out i thought you like this one.

Melanie Avalon
I found it. You found it? Yes.

That reminded me of two mind-blowing facts that we recently shared on my other show, the Mind Blown Podcast. Would you like to hear them really quickly? Tell me. Did you know the prohibition laws did not actually ban the consumption of alcohol? Just the selling of it.

Barry Conrad
I did not know that. Okay, so the people who had a whole stash were good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, or like if you were a patron in a speakeasy, I guess you wouldn't get in trouble, but the establishment would. Interesting. Yeah. What else?

The other one. So that one was on the episode. We did an episode on common misconceptions, like things people just think but they're incorrect. The second one was really interesting. It was about Rosa Parks. She actually was not in the like the white section of the bus. She was in the colored section and then the bus got too full and they wanted her to move so that a white person could sit there. And then that led to everything. It doesn't like change the amazingness of what she did and everything. It's just another like common misconception that's incorrect. So yeah, she was at the front. I guess she was at the front of that section. But that episode, we went into so many crazy like historical misconceptions. It was really fascinating.

Barry Conrad
That is really fascinating i also have to share another thing about kim's it's the only one of the only restaurants in america still serving true mutton to mutton.

Melanie Avalon
Really? Lamb?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because back in the 1900s, like the early 1900s, mutton was actually a symbol of luxury, so only the elite, really wealthy dined in it.

So, yeah, it's pretty rare to just find it any common restaurant eating mutton, mature shape here.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't see it now that I think about it. I don't I do not have a memory.

Speaking of memory, I don't have a memory of speaking of the memory, the type of memory that is Oh, this is a good example of the type of memory that's not helped by fasting. I don't remember having seeing mutton on a menu before.

Barry Conrad
There you go.

Melanie Avalon
So, okay.

Barry Conrad
Should we jump into this menu?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, what are you going to get? Are you going to get something from the raw bar and door appetizers?

Barry Conrad
I feel like you already know that I'm going to order something there. So looking at the raw bar here, I'm going to get... Oh man, I'm going to get Lincoln's Oysters 30.

Melanie Avalon
30 oysters. That is a lot of oysters.

Barry Conrad
Melody, you're yelling at me, you're yelling at me in front of all these people.

I would do the 30 oysters and I'm also going to get, because that doesn't really, it's not really that filling for me, so I'm going to get a crisp calamari salad. I love calamari sidebar, love it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, excellent choices for you

Barry Conrad
I like how you said for you.

Melanie Avalon
I would like the shrimp cocktail, the iced shrimp cocktail, and that's what I want.

Barry Conrad
That sounds delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And then I might have to save one for dessert, another shrimp cocktail for dessert, because that sounds like a good dessert. And I will try one of your oysters, if you will like.

Barry Conrad
me. Or more. Not just one. There's 30 there. So there you go. I'm trying to picture the plate, like the platter, how big that's going to be.

Melanie Avalon
The last place I went, it was one oyster. What? The one that, yeah, it was massive though. And I had a tiny little nibble and then I had no more.

Barry Conrad
No, this is the thing. The way you consume it, you've got to just have it all at once. Just have it. You can't have a little teeny.

Melanie Avalon
oyster was too big for that. It was huge. When I posted it, a lot of the comments were commenting on the size of this oyster.

Barry Conrad
Okay.

Melanie Avalon
So, these must be little, little oysters, maybe?

Barry Conrad
Oh, maybe not. Maybe not. I don't know.

But I'm going to migrate to the the mains over there because I see a lot of good steaks and meats. And I think because this is known for mutton, I'm definitely have to get the our legendary mutton chop. So I'm going to have that as one situation. But then I'm also going to get a prime New York sirloin as well.

Melanie Avalon
Cooked how?

Barry Conrad
Medium rare, rare to medium rare.

Melanie Avalon
You don't have to adjust it to rare for me.

Barry Conrad
I was adjusting it for you. I actually do like Rare, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
You do. Okay. Yeah.

Oh wait. So you're not going to, you're not going to choose from the tank, the steamed whole main lobster. You may, it says, quote, it says, quote, you may choose from our tank. I didn't see that.

Barry Conrad
Okay, hold on. I'm adjusting my order. So I'm going to do that.

Our legendary mutton chop is a shoe in that's happening. And then I'm going to definitely, definitely get a steamed whole main looser. And I'll point out as I often do the biggest one. Yeah. Like, that's the one.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we've talked about this before, right? Like when I was a server, I had to get the lobsters out of the tank.

Barry Conrad
I don't know if you did tell me this, tell me.

Melanie Avalon
I remember the first time it happened because I was I worked at ruse chris and beverly hills and nobody had taught me how to get the Lobster out of the tank before and um, I remember the first time that happened. I was like, I don't know what to do like I don't what I was panicking Because I was like, I don't know what to do I had to like go like get the thing and like try to get it out and it's like a really big spider Like all of its little legs and you put on a tray and then they say like cover it up with a cloth So it doesn't move around too much and then you had to like carry it to the pack alive

Barry Conrad
Were you scared? Was it scary for you?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, it was a very scary experience. Every time people ordered it, I was like, oh no, no, don't make me do this.

Barry Conrad
I would have loved to watch this happen.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man, yeah. Yeah, so.

Barry Conrad
PTSD from the lobsters

Melanie Avalon
Yes. I have a question. Can I just have like a bite of your oyster? Because I don't want a whole oyster, but I do want like a bite of it.

Barry Conrad
Melody, if these are like the oysters that I'm used to having, which had

Melanie Avalon
Oh, sorry, no, you're a waster, you're a lobster. Wait, I said lobster, right? Did I say lobster?

Barry Conrad
Okay Lobster, of course you can have a bite of the Lobster.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Because I don't want the whole lobster.

Barry Conrad
You might eat it and go, oh, actually, it's the server. Can I please get one as well? For dessert. For dessert. And then can I please grab it out of the tank? Because I used to.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man. Okay, so I am also getting the legendary Mutton Chop. How can I not? Thank you for finding this restaurant that has this. I will get it as rare as they will give it to me.

Blue, if possible. And then I think, okay, I know what I'm getting for dessert. So I'll get that for, or just go ahead and get another entree. Then I'll also have, what is that Chateau Brion steak?

Barry Conrad
That sounds pretty good. What does that mean? I don't know. Chateau beyond. Give me a Google. I will have a look.

Melanie Avalon
It's a luxurious center cut beef tenderloin roast, luxurious, a filet mignon roast and truly a magnificent cut of meat. The most decadent tender beef roast?

Barry Conrad
This place is awesome. It's all the meat that you could want really.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Listen to what Wikipedia says. This is so confusing to me.

Chateaubriand is a dish that traditionally consists of a large front-cut fillet of tenderloin grilled between two lesser pieces of meat that are discarded after cooking. What? That is such a confusing process. Why would you throw that away? Oh, so I know what I'm going to do. Can I have that? I'll be like, for the lesser pieces that you're cooking it between. Can you put those to the side and I'll have those for dessert.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, Melody, that's hilarious.

Melanie Avalon
The thing is, you know I would actually ask this.

Barry Conrad
The lesser pieces, can you just not throw them away, I'll have them for dessert. That's really funny.

I forgot, real quick, I forgot to add milk, I forgot to add a side dish. I'm definitely going to get some sauteed mushrooms and some boiled baby potatoes, love potatoes, on the side. I can't just have the...

Melanie Avalon
But I'll have some steamed spinach. Mm-hmm. Dessert, yeah. I'm like confused about what I've actually ordered at this point.

I think for dessert, if they'll give it to me, I would like some authentic Dover sole. That one's low mercury and it's very light. Or a shrimp cocktail. You know what? I'll get a shrimp cocktail, again, for dessert.

Barry Conrad
I really want to try, I can't wait to try Shrimp Cocktail for the first time ever, can't wait.

Melanie Avalon
Right, that blows my mind, wow. You can have Syrah and a shrimp cocktail and I'll have an oyster and you'll walk away happy and I will not be happy.

Barry Conrad
I reckon you, well, you may, I still, I'm holding, I'd hope that you might just find a good experience, oyster experience.

Melanie Avalon
We shall see.

Barry Conrad
My dessert will be definitely crème brûlée and the New York cheesecake. Done. Boom. Easy. Oh, they have a lot of desserts. They do.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, I'm going with another ship cocktail.

Barry Conrad
We can actually go here, you know that, right? Everything is so much more realistic now. We can go.

Melanie Avalon
Oh yeah, wow.

Barry Conrad
Look down the bottom of, you know, pass with the desserts and stuff. There's a photo of like the wine glasses. Do you see that? Next to daily specials.

Yes. I feel like that's a very Melanie photo, like.

Melanie Avalon
Like that photo, that vibe, like that's on my Instagram, like that's what I put on my Instagram.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, waiting for the discarded pieces of meat for my dessert from the...

Melanie Avalon
from the lesser, the lesser pieces of meat.

Barry Conrad
That's funny.

Melanie Avalon
Well, awesome, great find. Thank you for the history of it and everything. I love that. I like the story about the woman who changed things.

Barry Conrad
I thought you'd like that.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if they have smoking still because the, um, like cigar smoking, cause isn't the, is that a cigar in the logo or maybe not.

Barry Conrad
This place has over 50,000 clay church warden pipes hanging from the ceiling, which is the largest in the world. So it's still there. Crazy. Looks interesting, right?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have a gift shop.

Barry Conrad
You love a gift show.

Melanie Avalon
I don't even know what that is. They have like a meat stamp so you can stamp Keens into your burgers. Oh, wow. Cool. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
P.S. I do love a burger I do love burgers by the way just for future reference.

Melanie Avalon
Burgers are, burgers are good. You know what, you know what burgers would be good? Ground Maui Nui, venison burger. Cause they make, they make ground venison. I am so obsessed with that company.

Quick link for listeners. Their company in Hawaii, they support our show and they are helping address the overgrowth of axis deer in Hawaii, which is wrecking the ecosystem. And so they, it's very sustainable. It's stress-free for the venison. It's a delicious lean red meat, super high in protein. It's great. And they have a ground version if you would like to make burgers. So listeners for that can go to MauiNuiVenison.com slash IF podcast. So that's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-V-E-N-I-S-O-N dot com slash IF podcast. And that's a special link for us to secure your access, like your ACCESS, but also your access, like your AXIS deer. Well, thanks for finding that, Barry. This was so, so fun. So excited about you coming to America.

Barry Conrad
So excited!

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and I guess anything from you before we go.

Barry Conrad
Thank you once again for tuning in listeners. We love all your messages and your questions. Have an amazing day and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
All right, I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intramusian Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week.


Apr 28

Episode 419 – IF And Sperm Production, How Long Should OMAD Be, Health Hacks We Wish We Started Sooner, Sunscreen, Aging Fears, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 419 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC

SHOW NOTES


SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS


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LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠Saskatoon Lodge

IF Podcast Episode 404

The Great OMAD Debate: IF Podcast Episode 116


STUDIES

⁠The Impact Of Intermittent Fasting On Sperm Parameters


If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)



Melanie Avalon

Welcome to Episode 419 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.  I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 419 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad

Hey everyone hey mel, how's it going i'm doing great today it's a kind of a bit of a rainy day here in cindy but it's beautiful day otherwise and i'm super stoked to be here with you all.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness, it was rainy here today as well.

Barry Conrad

I feel like you love that, you prefer cold and cool.

Melanie Avalon

It actually was cooler. Yeah, it was nice. I liked it

Barry Conrad

So no cryo today or cryo still?

Melanie Avalon

Oh, cryo every day. Every day. Even if it's, yeah, freezing.

Barry Conrad

which now I'm yet to still experience and actually book into do I need to do it. I've been making a mental note to try it because I'm curious because you always do it.

Melanie Avalon

Well, when you come to Atlanta or the US, you can do it here. The one I go to two people can go in the old one I went to.  It was only like a one person unit, but this one actually, I think I says up to it says max capacity is like four or five people.

Barry Conrad

I'm picturing like a sauna set up where you can sit around in like this freezing freezer. Is that the deal or what what's the

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, it's kind of like that little bit bigger, bright, like blue lighting and very cold.

Barry Conrad

Okay, I feel like you'll school me, but I'm all for it. I'm up for the challenge. It's a vibe.

Melanie Avalon

It's yeah, it's super fun. How are you? How's your your day?  I'm good So when this comes out, it will have been a month post launch, which is still in the future for me right now Finally of my EMF blocking product line. I've been working on it for years. Whoo. That's awesome. Congratulations. Thank you I'm so excited. These are the EMF free headphones so that you can use your phone and not transmit EMFs to your brain and body amazing. So I'm very excited

Barry Conrad

What inspired you to create that and why that in particular?

Melanie Avalon

I went through a period of time where I was like very sensitive to everything in the environment and that's when I became aware of EMFs and some people are more sensitive than others, but it's not woo woo. It's very much a real concern.  Like I've said before, EMFs are classified by the IARC as a group to be carcinogen. And if you look in your iPhone in the legal section, it literally says, it literally suggests that you put your phone on speakerphone or use like wired headphones so that you reduce your RF exposure. So this is very much a real thing. The EMF free air tubes on the market right now, they didn't have, I couldn't find any that were the, like the app, you know, like the Apple earbuds. Yeah. I couldn't find any that were that type of earbud. They were all the like ones that go like in your ear. And I also couldn't find any that were like girly. So I'm making, I'm making black and rose gold. So the whole spectrum in this like Apple form and they're digital up until like below your neck. And then there's this little bead thing that stops all the EMFs and then it turns to analog. So no radiation goes into your head. So I'm very excited.  And the reason it took so long, literally I've been talking about this for over a year, probably two years now, a lot of them weren't good sound quality. I literally kept trying so many, there'd be a good sound quality, but then the microphone wouldn't be good or vice versa. I'm working with like a production partner and it would take a long time between samples. So I have literally tried so many samples, but I finally got ones that I feel good about.

Barry Conrad

I want to see them, I want to experience them too, I want to see what they sound like.

Melanie Avalon

So this week I just got the final finals to take photos of. So we're going to be taking photos this week. So I'll send you some pictures so that you can see how exciting and I'll send you some once I get them.

Barry Conrad

Speaking of rose gold, Melanie, I never ever, ever, ever, ever wear gold ever. But I just went to the MJ musical premiere.

Melanie Avalon

Yes, I saw your pictures from that. How was that?

Barry Conrad

It was actually, I'm going to say, the best musical I've ever seen. Wow. In terms of the production and the talent, it's just like, like regardless of what you think of Michael Jackson, like the music was incredible. The performances were out of this world. The production was, you, Mel, you would have loved it. And I was so blown away, blown away. It was amazing.  Is there a plot? Yeah. So it's, it kind of throws back to the past. And then the present day is the day, the making of the dangerous tour that he did. So basically the rehearsals and preparation for that and that time of his life, which I like that they really touched on a lot of stuff that might be controversial, which is good.

Melanie Avalon

Did they play? No, probably not. Do you want to know my favorite Michael Jackson song? Tell me. What's your favorite?

Barry Conrad

I have a couple i'm gonna say man in the mirror don't stop till you get enough and human nature that's my three favorites.

Melanie Avalon

Mine is, let me make sure this is actually the title of it. I feel like I have a hunch. Do you want to guess?

Barry Conrad

Is it you are not alone? I don't know, is it? No.

Melanie Avalon

No.

Barry Conrad

Is it the Free Willy song?

Melanie Avalon

yes yes oh my gosh you guessed you guessed that song is so good

Barry Conrad

That's good. It's a good one.

Melanie Avalon

Ah, the music video and he's like dancing and they two clips from Free Willy. Ah, man. Okay. We used to watch Free Willy. Did you watch Free Willy growing up? I'm guessing so.

Barry Conrad

Yeah, of course, yeah.

Melanie Avalon

Did you have it on BHS?

Barry Conrad

We actually did.

Melanie Avalon

Do you remember like the commercials in front and they would do the music video? There was like a commercial for like Batman I think and then they would do the music video. Will you be there?

Barry Conrad

That was my first guess, but I don't know why I went with you. I knew it was going to be something heartfelt. That's my hunch. There we go.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, treasured memory. So in my childhood house, we had a, like a grand piano, and it was a disclaver, so it could like play songs, and it could play that song.

Barry Conrad

Really?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah.

Barry Conrad

So you love it, you love that song, you really do.

Melanie Avalon

It could play that and it could play like Titanic and it could play Aladdin. We just had like...

Barry Conrad

That's funny. I don't know why that made me laugh. It just, it's hilarious.  But the reason why I brought that up is I wore a shirt with rose gold buttons and also rose gold cufflinks. And it made me think of you because you mentioned rose gold, but I don't really wear that, but I actually loved it because it's not like a tacky yellow gold, like rose gold is really nice. It's a nice color.

Melanie Avalon

I remember when I first like really discovered it as like an option. It's when it became really popular and it was like everywhere for a second.  I was like, this color is so great. It's like everything I love about pink, but in like a really classy, refined elevated version.

Barry Conrad

Nicely put I like that. That's really and also it's very unisex too. Like it's very as non offensive It's not like too pink or too gold. It's just like the perfect medium. I reckon

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, you can come with me next week. I'm going to the Neil Diamond musical. Have you seen that? A beautiful noise.

Barry Conrad

listeners, Melanie does this to me every week and she'll either message me or on the podcast, do you want to come to this? I would love to come to that.  Thank you. No, I haven't seen it. Tell me about it.

Melanie Avalon

I don't know. I just know that it's Neil Diamond and all of his songs.  I think it's like a working session where he's like working through his, I feel like I looked up the plot and I'm like, I don't know that there's like much of a plot here type thing.

Barry Conrad

Well, I think the music will be, I mean, Neil Diamond's a legendary artist. So I feel like people will be just loving the music, you know?

Melanie Avalon

Oh yes, Sweet Caroline here we come. And I had an epiphany about this because we were saying Mama Mia. I was saying how I actually loved it, but I was saying how I wasn't really a Mama Mia fan. I didn't realize I would like it as much as I did, but I was thinking about it.  I was like, honestly, I probably enjoy. So me going to like a musical or a show that I don't like, I probably enjoy it more than a lot of people going to shows they do like because I just love theater so much that even if I don't like it, I have the time of my life. Like it would be hard to make me not enjoy it.

Barry Conrad

I was going to ask you about Mamma Mia. What did you what did you love most about the show? Like, did it surprise you or did you kind of know what to expect?

Melanie Avalon

I'd seen the movie and I listened to the soundtrack, you know, in the past. I didn't realize that I liked the music as much as I did.  And I kind of liked the whole intrigue of like, who is her dad? Which of the three dads is the dad?

Barry Conrad

I did see it as well. I saw it in Australia. It's, I mean, it's pretty fun. It's a fun show. You can't deny that.

Melanie Avalon

What's my favorite song from that? Well, Dancing Queen, probably. Such a cliche, but...

Barry Conrad

I feel like I could just see you dancing in the aisle.

Melanie Avalon

Yep, always.

Barry Conrad

put your moves you have like a signature move will you know when we go out when we go out then i'll get to see you on the dance floor to see.

Melanie Avalon

My dance moves? Yeah. You're the dancer.

Barry Conrad

Yeah, but also like when you go out, it's kind of, you know, you don't want to like try to look like you're trying to dance. It's more like, I'll just like move and like have a good time, but I'm not going to go there and like do like a full choreograph set and try to pull focus, you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon

Yes. What makes me happy is I feel like the way Taylor Swift dances at stuff, like when she's always having like the time of her life at things, like what the way she dances is the way I dance at things.

Barry Conrad

Basically, what we both feel like we both are saying is you just got to have fun. As long as you have fun, you don't care.  That's dancing. You don't, if you're too concerned about looking cool, you're not really having a good time anyway.

Melanie Avalon

I think I've told you this before, I kind of had like an epiphany, perspective epiphany change about dancing because I was so like in middle school and high school dances were like so awkward and I felt really uncomfortable and embarrassed. So then when I like came into my maturity and was like, oh, this is awesome.  It's like I discovered the concept of like dancing and I was like, this is so fun. I want to do this all the time. Drinks help too.

Barry Conrad

Did you have like a moment where that happened where you like, Hey, this is fun.

Melanie Avalon

I think so. Honestly, probably. I'm trying to think when was the first time I really danced and wasn't scared anymore. I feel like it's not that long ago. Definitely post-COVID.

Barry Conrad

Cause you definitely look like you're having the time of your life when I look at your stories and stuff like you just having a good time you're not like caring about anything like you're just having fun so that's the whole point right so what would you like before we just.

Melanie Avalon

Well, I was like, I don't know, because like, I don't know how it is in Australia, but like, middle school, high school dances. Wait, when did you? Okay, wait, when did you move to Australia?

Barry Conrad

a while ago. Fuck.

Melanie Avalon

Not date, for like middle school, high school, whatever you call it, what country were you in for that?

Barry Conrad

I was in, I was in New Zealand. And it's like, yeah, it's very, like, we call it a four in Australia and New Zealand, we call those dances a formal if, or, M L you want to go to the formal with me, it's not like a prom, but it's like your version of prom.

Melanie Avalon

We have Formals and PROM.

Barry Conrad

Oh, you do?

Melanie Avalon

Mm-hmm. And we have semi-formals. Did you have semi-formals?

Barry Conrad

I don't understand.

Melanie Avalon

We have semi-formals, formals, and prom.

Barry Conrad

What's the diff? Like, what's the...

Melanie Avalon

And then other ones like homecoming. We have homecoming, semi-formals, formals, prom, there's a lot of options.  Sadie Hawkins, did you guys have Sadie Hawkins? No way. That's where the girl has to ask the guy.

Barry Conrad

Did you do that?

Melanie Avalon

But one of my biggest regrets to this day is I didn't ask my crush in high school to it. I wanted to.  I did ask a guy, but not my crush. Actually I put that in my book and I put his name in the book.  Did you really? I said, quote, that I did not invite my crush Stuart Horner to the 10th grade dance. Shout out.

Barry Conrad

You actually name-checked him. Did he ever reach out to you or find?

Melanie Avalon

I doubt it.  No, actually, you know, what I did do, though, is I did when I published that book, because I mentioned a lot of names of a lot of people. So I did this was like back in the Facebook days. I mean, Facebook is still here, but this was like before Instagram. So I did a post and I was like, shout out to and then I tagged everybody that I mentioned. So I think I tagged him, but I doubt he saw it.

Barry Conrad

Wow. Good for you that you're just confident to do that. That's awesome.

Melanie Avalon

Thank you. I feel like life is too short to be scared anymore. I spent too long being scared. Like it dances.

Barry Conrad

So would you just sort of like, what, hug the wall or like sit down? Like you, you wouldn't like dance.

Melanie Avalon

There's like stand there, you know, like, like move, like slightly sway my body, like a little bit. It's just so awkward. Middle school is such an awkward time and high school a little bit.

Barry Conrad

I agree too. I feel like, yeah, you just learn so much more about yourself as you grow, like, which is so freeing and feels awesome.

Melanie Avalon

I know I cannot agree more. And I used to be so scared of like the age I met now. Like I thought that was over the hill, like, but I feel, I feel great.

Barry Conrad

I feel exactly the same way. It's so relative. When you're in high school or a kid's like, oh, that's old, that's old. It's actually not. It's just old perspective. It really is.  Although, let's be honest, some people act really old and that's probably why too. They're just boring and don't have any life for them, so that's probably why.

Melanie Avalon

It's your mindset. Actually, something I learned in the book I'm reading right now called Ageless Aging, she said that your perspective on aging correlates to people's biological age.  So people who are more fearful of aging actually, no, no, it correlates to mortality. So people who are more like worried about aging, it correlates to reduced mortality.

Barry Conrad

Wow, she talks about like, I guess, stuff to support that happening or what, how does that work?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I mean, the book is all about how to support longevity.

Barry Conrad

Is there anything for the dudes in there or is it more like female kid?

Melanie Avalon

I'm not finished with it yet. But thus far, it is all applicable. The whole beginning of it is about the perspective of women and aging and culture.

Barry Conrad

Nice. Interesting. Ageless aging. What a good title as well.

Melanie Avalon

I know. So, well, one of the things that we know is anti-aging or supportive of longevity is intermittent fasting.

Barry Conrad

Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon

Do you have a study or something to start us off with?

Barry Conrad

I definitely do. I'm really excited about this study that I found. It's called the impact of intermittent fasting on sperm parameters. On sperm what? Parameters.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, that's cool. Oh my goodness, we have not talked about this on the show. I am so excited right now.

Barry Conrad

When I found this, I was, this is awesome.

Melanie Avalon

Did you type in intermittent fasting sperm?

Barry Conrad

I did, spur of the intermittent fast. No, I was just curious about if there was any research around it, cause I'd never ever heard anyone talk about it. So it's like, let's try to find something.

Melanie Avalon

This is so great. And you know, it's so true, because I feel like so much of the talk about intermittent fasting and reproductive health, it's always focused on how it affects women's reproductive health. Rarely do we talk about men.  That's so interesting. Whereas the rest of the world focuses on men, but for this one topic. Well, there you go. The rest of medical literature. Okay, so what did you find? I'm excited to hear this.

Barry Conrad

Yeah. So it's, it's called intimate, the impact of intermittent fasting on sperm parameters. And it's from team kindervunge Hanover in Germany, and silent university medical center. And this was in October 2023.  And like, as you were saying before, like, we know a lot about, you know, female fertility and, you know, female focused studies regarding intermittent fasting, but not so much about male in the same topic. And we know that diet and antioxidants play a massive role in male fertility. But what we don't really get a lot of is how fasting impacts sperm health, which is why when I found this, I'm like, yes. And that's where the study comes in. And the researchers basically wanted to, to see if intermittent fasting could improve sperm quality. So things like, like sperm concentration, motility, morphology. And what makes this really even more interesting to me is that they weren't just looking at any men, they specifically studied men undergoing IVF treatment. So this is the connection on which I think might be applicable to some of our listeners, maybe going through that. So when we talk about men in IVF, just to zoom out for a second, what does that actually mean? Because we we kind of think it's something focused on just females and hormone injections and egg retrievals, embryo transfers. But male fertility plays just as big of a role in whether IVF is successful. So

Melanie Avalon

This is so interesting.

Barry Conrad

Yeah. So if a man being part of that treatment means undergoing something called semen analysis. So that's when doctors check for things like sperm count, sperm motility, morphology, just to see if the quality of the samples are good. And if the sperm aren't moving well, or if the count is low, it can make conception harder, even in a lab setting.  So in some cases, they were saying like if sperm motility is poor, doctors have to use a technique called intracytoplasmic sperm injection. And it's along with where basically like a single sperm is injected directly into the egg to improve the chances. So the fact that the study was done on men who were already dealing with fertility challenges makes this melt like even more compelling. So basically, these guys took, these researchers took 20 men in the IVF process and tested this sperm before and after 30-day intermittent fasting period. So they fasted just from 14 to 16 hours a day, mostly stopping food intake around 6 to 8pm and not eating again until 8 or 10am the next morning. And so here's where it which is how well the sperm move significantly improved.  Out of the five men in the study who had poor motility at the start, guess how many showed so much improvement out of the five? All of them. Four out of the five showed so much improvement that they now were considered to have normal motility after the fasting. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And that's because like motility is it's a big part of fertility and because if the sperm, if they can't move efficiently, the struggle to reach the egg, like to fertilize the egg, whether naturally or IVF is really tough.  The next thing is sperm viability. So that means how many sperm are actually alive. That also improved significantly. And even sperm pH levels saw like a big shift which matters because sperm thrive in a very specific pH range. So if the environment's off, it can actually damage them. So those two things change. What didn't change interestingly was sperm concentration. So that means like the number of sperm in the sample. It did go up slightly, but not in a way that was statistically significant in the study. And the sperm morphology, which refers to the shape and structure of the sperm, didn't really budge. But basically the big takeaway here is IF appears to have a positive effect on sperm motility and overall sperm health, at least in the short term.  And yeah, it's a small study. While it was a small study, it's one of the first to directly compare sperm parameters before and after fasting, which is super exciting because it just opens the door for, I reckon, more research on how fasting could actually be used as a tool to support male fertility, which I think is fresh, new, exciting. And when you think about the science behind fasting, Mel, we know that makes sense because we already know IF reduces inflammation, improves hormone balance, metabolic health. So these are all things that are key for reproductive function.

Barry Conrad

And also it increases human growth hormone, as we know, which plays a huge role in repair. And that could also be a factor, I reckon, why the sperm function might have improved. And practically, if you're a guy out there, shout out to our male listeners, or you're a female or male with a partner or husband, if you're dealing with fertility challenges, IF could actually be a simple naturally strategy to try or to help. I mean, it's not a magic bullet.  It's very new research. But this study, I mean, it just suggests that it could be a valuable tool in the bigger picture later on. And maybe intermittent fastings, not just about longevity and fat loss and retaining muscle, but also a reproductive level tool as well. So I think that's really exciting.  So what's the space for more research on this area? Mel, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon

Wow. Okay. Such a great find. Kudos to you.  Thank you. And it just goes to show like it never even occurred to me to research this. So I'm so glad that you brought this up. Even when it's like a small study, it's really exciting when the results like that are very, like when you have smaller numbers, you need more impressive results to show more of the effect, if that makes sense. Things can be statistically significant, regardless of sample size. But when you have a small sample size, it's more important to like the four out of five example, to have higher numbers like that, because it really shows something that's going on. I think what I find really interesting about it is, this is interesting. So when they look at the longest lived populations, and people often talk about Loma Linda, for example, which is a vegan community in California as having particularly long lives. And people will say that about the vegan population as well. So I do know there have been studies that have found negative effects on some of the sperm parameters. I'm not sure which ones in vegan populations. I think some have found favorable effects, but some have found negative effects. That's basically a concern. So like whenever I whenever I interview people well known in the vegan populations, I often talk about this topic because it is something that is kind of out there as a potential negative. So I find it really interesting that my experience to date learning about male fertility, sperm and longevity, it seemed to have been a trade off sometimes like you can't have the longevity and have the sperm, you know, the beneficial sperm effects. So it's really exciting to hear this finding with fasting, which we also know is great for longevity and health and wellness, and these beneficial effects on some of the sperm parameters. Wow. And it was 30 days.

Barry Conrad

It was 30 days and just 14 to 16 hours a day, which I think it's not the same thing, but just to set listeners at ease. It's not just about doing 30 hour fast, fasting is so beneficial even like past the 12 hour mark.  There's so many benefits to fasting, so just 14 to 16 hours a day, so I keep going.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, no, no, this is amazing. I hope they do more studies, more follow-up studies on this.

Barry Conrad

It's so topical as well, because I'm sure, I mean, statistically, from a listeners, there's going to be someone going through IVF or just about to or just maybe in the process of trying again. And maybe it's not even something that their partners have even or they've even thought of themselves that could help.

Melanie Avalon

Awesome, great find. Thanks.  So we will put a link to that in the show notes, which will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 419. All right, so what we wanted to do was we wanted to talk about a Facebook post that I posted that has a lot of really interesting answers, but maybe before that, we have a really quick question that's also fasting related that maybe we could answer to get both in, if you like. Okay. It's Gwen's question, do you wanna read it? Okay.

Barry Conrad

So Gwen from Facebook asks, how long should your eating window be if you're trying to do just one meal a day?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, so I really love this question. I don't know if we've actually answered this, like, prescribed a number for this.  But the reason I like this is because when I think when people hear one meal a day, they think, Oh, like an hour, you know, like that it has to be like 30 minutes or an hour. Of course, if you're very style, you can knock it back in like 15 minutes, 10 minutes, it should be as long as it needs to be to get in all the food and nutrition that you need to get in. So for me, when it's like, how long should it be? It's how long it should be for you. So for me, I eat a lot of seafood and chicken and cucumbers and blueberries. And I eat for about four or five hours, like, it's kind of like having a really, really long meal at a restaurant. But other people so like, because because Barry, when you do your one meal a day daily, like, is it around a similar amount of time? Or what is it like for you?

Barry Conrad

Yeah, when I'm doing my one meal a day, if I'm working from home, for example, or just before heading out, the cooking is one thing, but it'll be... It's less than an hour, like, from cooking to eating and finishing up, usually. I mean, I don't generally go, hey, I've done 24, so let me just keep trying to fill up that four hours. No, I'll just, like, finish eating once I've had enough.  What about you? You have four hours or so?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, like four or five hours and I'm, I go slow. I take my time. I read my books.

Barry Conrad

She enjoys her self. Yeah, it's good.

Melanie Avalon

I do. Yeah. It's like a feast every night. So my answer for you Gwen is there is no one answer.  It's however long it needs to be to get all the food in that you need to get in and want to get in and the pace that you want to go at for that.

Barry Conrad

To add on to that, I think it's such a good question, because as soon as I saw this, it harkened back to the great One Meal a Day debate between Melanie and, you know, the original co-host, Jen Stevens, and then even we revisited in episode number 404, actually, if you want to listen to that listeners. And interestingly enough, we put up a poll on our podcast Instagram, and the question was, what's your definition of One Meal a Day?  And we had three options there. A, you've got to eat the meal within one hour. Max. B, it can be spread across two to four hours. And C, just eating once a day. Timing doesn't matter. Mel, which one do you reckon had the most votes out of those three options?

Melanie Avalon

Wait, so say them again. So timing doesn't say them again.

Barry Conrad

So A, you've got to eat the meal within one hour, B, it can be spread across two to four hours, and C, just eating once a day, timing doesn't matter.

Melanie Avalon

So I would say once a day timing doesn't matter, but was it two to four hours?

Barry Conrad

Yeah, our followers, they voted 62% of our followers voted for that one, followed by 29% for just eating once a day timing doesn't matter. And then lastly, 10% with you've got to eat the meal within an hour. Interesting.

Melanie Avalon

very interesting to me. Yeah, so they would have answered this question a little bit differently.  But technically, you know, if everybody has different perspectives on it, I feel like that further supports my answer.

Barry Conrad

No, it does. Like it doesn't like negate your answer.  It's just like really interesting that no one thought that one like just eat it like really quickly, which like, I think we all agree. That's not what it is.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. That's so interesting. I mean, cause you, you can't really, I mean, if you're eating throughout the day, it's much easier to have it in a small amount of time. But if when it's your one meal a day, I feel like most people might need a little bit more time there.  I a hundred percent agree. Awesome. Okay. Friends, listeners join my Facebook group called IF biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. I put a lot of fun, like, I put a, I put a question in there every single day, actually. So there's a lot of fun community in there and berries in there and I'm in there and all the things. So I didn't anticipate doing this, but I posted something and it got so many answers I thought would be fun to talk about. And it was, if you had to pick, what is the one health thing biohack supplement lifestyle choice, et cetera, you wish you started sooner. So, and there's 58 comments. Should we go through them first or should we say our answers first?

Barry Conrad

Let's go through them first, let's see what they have to say.

Melanie Avalon

Okay. So, Baren Adet said intermittent fasting. I'm going to count how many people say intermittent fasting. Okay. Trevor, oh, he said this is a great thread. Janice said, I agree, fasting. And then she said a close second is red and near infrared light therapy. Kate said HRT. Anna said IF and loss of outdoor walking. I like that.  And then April commented on that and said, I used to be a runner, but I'm shifting to more outdoor walks now and perimenopause and love it. Patty said eating whole foods and more protein. Jackie said more protein, lots more protein. Protein has the building blocks to repair our skin, muscles, red blood cells, hormones, literally everything. Don't skimp on protein. Holly said fasting. There's another one. And eliminating seed oils. Alice said intermittent fasting. For the clarity of mine, it has given me along with all the other non-skilled victories it has brought about. Stephanie says, actually, it's hard to say. When I was younger, I feel like I didn't need any of these, quote, AIDS that I use now. It's only since my 40s and now into my 50s that I feel like I can't get a handle on the lack of energy, pain, and how to keep weight off. I feel like red light supplements, chiropractic, and occasional acupuncture when I'm in a really bad place are barely holding me together at this point.  Stephanie, I'm sending her lots of love and keep on trying the things and looking at your sleep and diet and everything, because I really think people can feel better at any age. I truly, truly do. Lisa said fasting. Christine said resistance training. Karen said hitting my protein goals, HRT and fasting. Carolina said resistance training and eating more protein. Sheila said intermittent fasting. Lisa said intermittent fasting. I am still newer to getting it all down. Alexander said intermittent fasting, obviously. Rachel said intermittent fasting. Deborah said fasting and BHRT. BHRT is probably the most beneficial. So that's bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. Denise said sunscreen. Oh, I have thoughts on that one. Maria said fasting. Olivia said fasting. Amy said exercise and IF. April said agree with others on fasting, more protein and red light. We'll add regular use of sauna and cryotherapy. Monica, fermented foods. That's a new one.  Teresa, I used to be so tired. I'm not exactly sure what supplements I'm taking that gave me my energy back, but I used to have to nap around 5 to 6 p.m. every day and I no longer need to. Jane, red light therapy. Julie, fasting. Amy, morning grounding and sun exposure. Teresa, meditation, protein intake and berberine. Deanna said strength training. Noreen said breaking the fast with protein. I like that idea. Karen said fasting. Sherry said strength training. Ginger said HRT. Stewart said morning sunlight and cold water. I wonder if he means drinking cold water.

Barry Conrad

Or if it means, like, swimming or...

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, or like cold water shower. It could be a lot of things. Becky said carnivore and daily health system. I don't know what that is. And somebody asked her, but she didn't answer.  Susan said definitely IF. Nikki said wearing my aura ring because I used it to significantly improve my sleep. Julie said activating my life with natural activators. Michelle said bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and strength training. Paulina said strength training. Tia said intermittent fasting. Shauna said whole foods, hot yoga, walks in the sunlight, NIF, curious about the red light therapy. And if it works, Claudia said choosing to eat more saturated fat and less polyunsaturated fat. Christina said fasting. And Lisa's last one said the NRF2 activators hands down to have a medically proven natural product that lowers oxidative stress, multiple independent medical journals written up in PubMed.  It's phenomenal. Yeah. Okay. So that was, I was counting on my hands. That was 24 people at a 58. No, not exactly half. So 24 people at a 58 mentioned fasting. That's a lot. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on all those answers?

Barry Conrad

I'm not surprised with the intermittent fasting being the number one that you would have started sooner because mine's exactly the same. I wish I knew about it sooner, followed by just a better education about whole foods and that you didn't have to demonize different macronutrients that they could all work for you and you don't have to be afraid of carbs or afraid of fats sort of thing.  So definitely ayah for me, followed by just more of a more knowledge base of how to eat properly, you know? What about you?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. So mine's similar. So I started fasting in sophomore year of college. For me, hands down, the one health thing would be your second one, which was I wish I had eaten not as all those processed foods growing up.  I wish I'd eaten more like real food and not all the fast food and like everything. But then on the other hand, I feel like weird. I feel conflicted because I have all these really great memories of that food. And I actually like having those memories. I like that I know how everything tastes, if that makes sense. And what's so interesting is I can remember now how I haven't had processed foods in forever. But pizza, cake, things like that, even candies, I really remember exactly what they taste like. It's interesting how much that memory stays with you.

Barry Conrad

Yeah, and I think it's better that you know rather than like I'll never know so and you'll be living in that that mystery or that just not knowing it's good that you've experienced it and you know that it's not for you doesn't work for your body more importantly that's great.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I think I wish like if I could have raised and I love my parents, so this is not like anything about them I'm just saying like from what I've learned If I were raising a child, I think the approach I would take is because this is how I would have wanted to have been raised I would have liked if in our house Everything was like healthy so like unprocessed foods but then if my mom had like Made for like made made healthy quote healthy versions of things so like for like birthdays and cakes and cookies like if we had made like them with almond flour and gluten-free and Stevia and like so I think that I wish I had had like a whole foods basis at home I wish our pantry hadn't been filled with like little debbies.  Wait, we talked about this. Are there little debbies in Australia? What's that? Oh my goodness

Barry Conrad

What? Little Debbie's? Mm-hmm. Little Debbie's. No, that's... I've never heard that in my life.

Melanie Avalon

Have you heard of hostess, like Twinkies?

Barry Conrad

Oh, Twinkies, yeah, Twinkies, for sure.

Melanie Avalon

it's not Twinkies, but it's like a package. It's probably the most little Debbie is probably besides hostess hostess and little Debbie are like the most famous packaged snack cakes brand and little Debbie like little Debbie is the mascot.  And there's all these different ones that are like from childhood like cosmic brownies and nutty buddies and all these things.

Barry Conrad

I'm literally just looked it up when you said it. I see like brownies cakes, like cookies, doing everything and the little Debbie.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, like all packaged, you know, they're always like on the end cap in the aisles and you and we would always pick up little debbies like it's very much like a thing. So I wish our pantry had not been full of those.  And then I wish that I would have liked it if my parents would have like educated me about the importance of Whole Foods, but then let me if I'm like out have have other things, and just communicated to me that, you know, if you have this, you can have it, but you might not feel well. And that's okay. Then I would have like learned, oh, this is what these other foods taste like. And maybe I don't feel that well when I have them, you know, I think that would have been like the best balance, like have the Whole Foods at home, make the the paleo and the healthy versions of cakes and cookies and stuff at home and then be allowed to have things when I go out. And maybe I just don't feel well from it.

Barry Conrad

I like that. So basically just education on food and you can make your own choices. I like that a lot.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, so I think that's what I that and and then also in that realm like maybe making the smarter alcohol choices earlier

Barry Conrad

I guess we just don't know what we know, right? Don't know.

Melanie Avalon

That's the other thing I really want to emphasize is I'm really all about not having regrets, you know? Like everything's a learning experience and it can always get better from here. So I don't, you know, I'm not like down on myself about any of that. I just learn and go from there.

Barry Conrad

Love it. Once we know better, we can do better, all right?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, exactly. When do you think you would have started intermittent fasting? Like at what age?

Barry Conrad

If I knew about it and I could choose to do it.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, mhm.

Barry Conrad

I think probably late teens because I still want to, I don't know, I wouldn't want to start it too early, but I also would have loved the, like for someone to teach me that it's okay to not eat all day, but then still have like a generally not too much of a strict window growing up, but then late teens maybe start knuckling down to like maybe like a 16 eight or something like that. And then from there I can build on it.  But just like you said, just knowing you don't have to eat all day. This is what happens when you do. This is what happens when we fast and then having that choice.

Melanie Avalon

What's really funny is growing up every Wednesday, we would go eat at the country club and it was like this massive buffet. And I would, so I would do intermittent fasting once a day, once a week, because on Wednesdays, I would not eat all day so that I could just like pig out at the buffet.  And it's funny because I thought I was like doing harm to my body by, you know, not eating. I was like, this is so like bad that I'm like not eating. And then I would like have my feast. And now literally it's like that's what I do every day is fast and feast. Although the foods I was eating were not the best. That's okay.

Barry Conrad

I think I did the same thing and like you used to think, oh, you're starving. But it's like, wow, a little do we know.

Melanie Avalon

I know. So, so yeah, so friends definitely joined the Facebook group.  Oh, I'm trying to think I was going to comment sunscreen. I actually, I don't really go out in the, um, the sun that much, but I do wish I had used, I definitely wish I had used non-toxic sunscreen and more of it growing up when I was like in the sun all the time. Cause I would like go out, we would be in Florida all summer and I would just, I would not, not only would I not put sunscreen on, I would put on all those like creams and lotions that make you tan even more. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I do. Or I would put like oil on my skin so that I would tan more.

Barry Conrad

so bad that's not I wouldn't not concern Aussie thing but I do think a lot of Caucasian or or people that don't have darker skin like they I've seen them do that and know people who do that like they'll put coconut oil on or just oil to literally to tan and fry like fried bacon skin you know

Melanie Avalon

I remember the one time I got so burned. I looked like a raccoon for days. I got sick because you know, when you get so burned that you get like sick because you get sun poisoning or whatever it's called, I was like almost throwing up. I was so burned, but literally, yeah, I was like a raccoon for days. It's horrible.  And I remember we would have our relatives come stay with us in Florida. And one of my relatives, they were, they were very intense with like health stuff. And I thought they were so weird at the time. What do you mean? Just like they were very much aware of it. Well, they were very, very religious, but they were just would only eat. Yeah, they wouldn't eat like the processed foods. And I thought they were so weird and they would not like, I don't know, they would like make their own like cleaning product, like everything I do now they were doing. But we would go on. We would go on bike rides and they would my uncle would not use sunscreen. Instead, he would like tape paper towels to his skin. What to like block the sun. And I thought he was so weird. And now I'm like, oh, he was on to something. I mean, I don't know if I would like tape towels to my skin, but it's just funny how you can have such a paradigm shift with your thoughts, you know.  Well, that's a first. Papering paper towels. Yeah. Do you wear sunscreen? Do you wear non-toxic sunscreen when you go out?

Barry Conrad

I do and it's got at least SPF 30 plus for sure. I think it's so important and that's one thing that I actually, I don't know where it comes from or whether my mom instilled it, but from a young age, it's like sunscreen, like I was always really big on that, even inside, like, just because you're not on the side, like, it's really important because the sun's getting in, it's really, really...

Melanie Avalon

You use sunscreen inside.

Barry Conrad

Yeah, because I'm still I'm sitting in front of a window right now. As long as it's not dark, those UV rays, man, they are, especially in Australia, New Zealand, really, really, really strong and harsh. So for sure.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. So you're using one that has a physical barrier, not like a chemical barrier. Okay.  So I'll ask the question, what type of sunscreen do you, do you use? Does it have a chemical barrier or a, like a.

Barry Conrad

It's a physical barrier and definitely SPF 30 plus minimum because it's really important to, it's not just any sunscreen, like it has to be the right strength to help mitigate the effects of the UV rays. It's really, really, really important and something that I, from a very young age, I can't even pinpoint the age.  My mom was always like sunscreen, sunscreen, very important. Even inside, doesn't have to be outside. On my lips as well, which there is a lot of skin cancers that develop on your lips as well. I have a balm. Yeah, very, very important.

Melanie Avalon

Awesome. So yeah, and I think it's so like I said, similar to what you're saying, like I wish I had used more sunscreen, but I wish I had not been using the chemical bear, the chemical sunscreens, because those are like they contain carcinogens and endocrine disruptors, and they're going straight into your bloodstream.  So you really want like what Barry's using where it has something like zinc oxide in it that is just creating an inert physical barrier between your skin and the sun, not chemicals that are not good for you.

Barry Conrad

Melanie, what were you saying about the other answers on the poll of the thread that you made? Like what was surprising to you of some of those answers, like the hormone, the therapy you were talking about?  Can you touch on that? Is that more?

Melanie Avalon

Well, so I might punt that a little bit in that a lot of people. So this post inspired me to post another post because I saw so many people commented hormone replacement therapy. So I actually created another post where I asked people their thoughts on hormone replacement therapy and it got so many answers and every single one was overwhelmingly positive. So I think hormone replacement therapy is beneficial for so many women, even though it kind of has had a bad rap because of women's health initiative, which is a whole not their rabbit hole. Yeah, so it was nice to see that.  Let me look through and see. Oh, I like the one about walking outdoors. Oh, this is interesting morning grounding and sun exposure. So kind of the flip side like getting that therapeutic, you know, light in your life.

Barry Conrad

It is different though, like the morning sun and just it hits different pun intended. It feels different.  It's better for you. It is really nice and walking outside is one of my favorite things when I first started getting into intermittent fasting and even listening to this podcast. One of the ways I listened to the I consumed the show was by walking walking for miles and miles and just it's because it's like it's an underrated fat burner and people think it's like not really exercise. It's so effective. Anyway, walking is great.

Melanie Avalon

It's so great. And if you're walking, definitely get paluvas, which are minimalist shoes that separate your toes and they let your body walk naturally the way it's supposed to walk.  Because when we wear normal shoes with walking, it actually is very detrimental for our health because it messes up all the signaling from what we should be feeling on the ground that signals to our body how to walk, how to, it affects like our posture, our bones, our muscle, so many things. So I'm obsessed with paluvas. I never thought I would be, but I am now.

Barry Conrad

Did I see on Polluvers, did I see your sister post like in the gym wearing those? I think I'm pretty sure I did. Polluvers.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, yes. She's like all on board. She was listening to my episode with Brad Kearns or Mark Sisson, who we had on this show as well. Yeah, she's like obsessed as am I.  They blew my mind about the problems with modern shoes. It's crazy. And what I love about them is they have so many options. Like you can get any style that you like. They're amazing.

Barry Conrad

I gotta try them.

Melanie Avalon

If listeners go to pelluva.com, that's P-E-L-U-V-A.com. The code IFPodcast will get you 15% off.  And it used to be 10%, but I got it bumped up to 15%. So, and literally they have, like I said, so many styles. It's incredible. Shall we break our fast?

Barry Conrad

Let's do it. I'm so ready for this.

Melanie Avalon

All right, listeners, friends. So the time has come for us to proverbially, virtually, simulatedly. Someday we're going to come up with the word for this.

Barry Conrad

And all we'll make our own up, just like I say, Trinkets, we can say something our own thing.

Melanie Avalon

let's just make up a word. Well, time for us to break our fast because as you guys know, fasting, the health benefits of fasting are not just about the fasting, they're equally, I would say equally about the eating because if you just fast, you actually won't get any of the health benefits. The eating part is so, so key to it.  So we like to always feature a restaurant that we find exciting or, you know, alluring for whatever reasons it may be. And then we talk about what we would order at that restaurant. So Barry, do you want to know why I picked this restaurant? So I picked, it's called, it's called Saskatoon restaurant. It's in Greenville, South Carolina. And there was a very specific reason I chose this restaurant.

Barry Conrad

Why tell me?

Melanie Avalon

So my first podcast that I ever went on as a guest, like as the person being interviewed. So this was around 2014, over a decade ago.  And Edwin Wu, who is the owner of a rush of this restaurant called Saskatoon, reached out to me to come on his podcast. And because I think at the time, I just had myself published book. I didn't have, I didn't have my book and stories. I didn't have my podcast. I did not have a following. I had like a blog. But yeah, he asked me to come on and I remember being so nervous, which is like so crazy and surreal to think about now. It was so cool because he had this restaurant, which is very like paleo and has all these cool, you know, game meat and things like that. So A, I need to actually go to this restaurant because it's doing everything I want in a restaurant. And B, I'm really excited now to actually look at the menu and see what I would order. And it's kind of like a lodge feeling type setting the restaurant.

Barry Conrad

Which I think they did a really good job with the website to make you even feel like convey that vibe like you definitely get that vibe looking at the website and now you had me at steakhouse saskatoon steakhouse I'm in.

Melanie Avalon

Yes. And it says the first thing it says is welcome to Saskatoon, the call of the wild in the heart of the South. Like I love that it's like in Greenville, and it's this whole like lodge hunter vibe.  Okay, it says that tucked away on nine acres of beautiful landscape and organic gardens. Saskatoon lodge is the perfect replica of an authentic Northwest mountain lodge. We specialize in wild game prepared to perfection with mouthwatering cuts of buffalo elk, antelope, kangaroo, even alligator and ostrich. Oh my goodness. Okay. Shall we say what we would order?

Barry Conrad

Let's go. Okay, I'm going to click on the menu. So exciting. I love this.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, so I think I went first last time. Do you want to go first? What you would get for the appetizers?

Barry Conrad

Ah, man, spoiled for choice. This is really good. What jumps out at me straight away. I've got to go for the BA's charcuterie and it has to be an end.

Melanie Avalon

Which is, wait, do you want to read it? Do you want to read what it is? Because people are not, this is like wild. This is not your normal charcuterie.

Barry Conrad

So B.A.'s charcuterie, seared kangaroo, wild game sausage, smoked salmon and duck breast with mature cheeses. Delicious.  Pickled vegetables, olive oil, crostini, house-made jam. That already sounds like a huge meal. So that's like a good situation there. And then I have to go for the Saskatoon Spicy Shrimp as well. Those two, which is Saskatoon Spicy Shrimp, is plump shrimp, skewered, grilled and served with a Cajun Rumelade sauce. Did I say that right? Rumelade? Rumelade.

Melanie Avalon

I think so, yes.

Barry Conrad

I'll have my lad's sauce. Delicious. What would you have?

Melanie Avalon

good choices. Okay. So I am definitely also getting the Tarkudari. I love kangaroo. I'm so jealous of you having access to kangaroo more freely.

Barry Conrad

Also on kangaroo I went to a wedding two weeks ago Mel and basically we stayed at a lodge

Melanie Avalon

Oh, is that the one that you sang at? Did you sing? Did you sing Taylor Swift?

Barry Conrad

I didn't sing Taylor's first, but...

Melanie Avalon

You said you were going to maybe sing Lover. I tried to convince Barry to sing Taylor Swift at this wedding.

Barry Conrad

I had to go with what was ever moving and evolving.

Melanie Avalon

Did you wear white?

Barry Conrad

Yes, so white party on the first night, and then the next day was the ceremony. It was very festive.  But the reason why I brought it up was we stayed at this lodge where kangaroos literally would just come and hang with us while we're sitting around drinking and eating. I can send you videos. They're literally right by us at our table and stuff. At the table? Yeah, they even came into the reception. They're around. They're everywhere. Just guests.

Melanie Avalon

Aren't they aggressive?

Barry Conrad

They can be.

Melanie Avalon

And they're very, very lean meat.

Barry Conrad

Oh yeah, the meat here. Do you have access to it over there in Atlanta?

Melanie Avalon

so, so, so. Yes and no.  I love kangaroo. So one of my favorite restaurants here, which I'm trying to decide if I should say it because I'll probably do it as one of our restaurants, but it's called Canoe. I haven't done it yet, right? On this. Oh, yeah. So they have a kangaroo appetizer that's fabulous. And you can buy kangaroo ground beef at Sprouts, which is a chain here, kind of like Whole Foods, but not Whole Foods, but not in every state. Because when I moved to California, I don't think I could buy kangaroo there. Some states you can't have kangaroo, but we have it here.  Why? Weird laws about importing certain meats and things.  Okay. Yeah. So it's so good though, like kind of like the Maui Nui venison that we love. I was.

Barry Conrad

Just about to say that, Mel, you read my mind, perfect.

Melanie Avalon

why I'm here. I'll give listeners a link. So we love Maui Nui Venison, which is also a very, very lean venison from Hawaii. They are an invasive species there. So having this company actually helps the environment because they're kind of wrecking the ecosystem. They do it very sustainably in a stress-free environment for the animals and the meat is just absolutely delicious. So I cannot recommend it enough.  I love it. You can go to MauiNuiVenison.com. That's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-V-E-N-I-S-O-N.com slash I-F podcast to get access. That is the link to use. But yeah, kangaroo, I also love because it's a very similar vibe. Although I've never had very, I've never had like a kangaroo steak. I've only had kangaroo as a seared kind of like at Saskatoon, like a seared appetizer. They have like steaks for it, right, in Australia?

Barry Conrad

They have steaks and also like a stir-fry pack packs of like stir-fry cut up meat like that as well. You have the key though is to cook it not too long because it can be tough if you don't cook, you know, but it's delicious and so good for you.  The protein content is amazing. It's so lean as well.

Melanie Avalon

Well, so I love so this charcuterie board is speaking to my heart. So seared kangaroo. Yes, wild game sausage might upset my stomach because of I don't know what's in there. So you can have it.  You can have it smoked salmon. Yes, smoked duck breast. Yes. And then you can have do you want the mature cheese, the pickled vegetables, olive oil, Christina in the gym.

Barry Conrad

Load it on my plate.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, so like when you order yours, you can just get it normal. And for mine, I'll be like, can you just have everything like kind of separate, you know, make sure that there's no, it's probably fine. There's probably not anything on top of anything. So I would get that.  And then actually, I'm going to do a curve ball. And you have to really know me to know why this is a curve ball because it seems like an obvious answer. But I would get the bacon wrapped scallops, which are pan seared, then oven roasted with citrus, garlic cream and remoulade dipping sauces, I would get all the sauces on the side. Do you know why this is a curve ball?

Barry Conrad

Because you don't really, you don't really eat bacon really.

Melanie Avalon

I love bacon. It's true that I don't eat that much.  It's a curveball because everybody knows I'm obsessed with scallops and I eat pounds of scallops every night so people think I'll order scallops when I go out, but I never order scallops when I'm out.

Barry Conrad

Ah, so that's the COBOL. Oh, you don't really order it out. Okay.

Melanie Avalon

Because I eat them every night, and I'm used to eating them in mass amounts and at home, but when you go out, you get a scallop. So I would never order scallops as my entree.  A scallop. Yeah. I would never order a scallop entree because it would not be filling enough and it would be so expensive for a tiny amount of protein. But as an appetizer and with bacon, the bacon is what's getting me because bacon is... I had a moment probably a few months ago where I just sat there contemplating bacon. I was contemplating, why is it so amazing? Why do people get ravenous and frenzied and passionate and jealous of bacon compared to all the other meats?

Barry Conrad

Because that's so good.

Melanie Avalon

But it is so good, you know, like it like lights up your brain, like why?

Barry Conrad

And you know what, when you, when keyword, when you go to New Zealand, the bacon there is like nowhere else in the entire planet that I've ever had it. It's amazing.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, really? Yeah. Would you like to taste my bacon-wrapped scallops?

Barry Conrad

I would love that. Also, I wonder how many you get. I wonder if it's like a whole

Melanie Avalon

That's the thing, it's probably like two or three.

Barry Conrad

I wonder how big it is if it's just like little or like a substantial, either way, I'm trying some. I love scallops.  You like scallops, right? I love scallops. I don't, this is my, not really a curable, but I do like scallops, but I never ever really have them. So I'm actually inspired today to when I go to the store to get some today with my steak.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, nice. Steak and scallop. So that, that's an exception.  I might like, if I'm, if I have like an entree where you can add on scallops, I might do that. I would basically never get scallops as my entree at a place, but I would get them as an add on or an appetizer.

Barry Conrad

You just need to tell me how to prepare the scallops because you're like a pro at that.

Melanie Avalon

People always ask me that. I feel like I'm not a good person to ask.  I feel like I'm not a good person to ask for preparing anything because I'm so crazy. What do you mean? Like how to prepare a steak. I'm like, uh, I want it like as blue as it will come. For scallops, I cook them in a Dutch oven. Do you have one of those?

Barry Conrad

I don't, but I could probably figure like a workaround.

Melanie Avalon

This is good to know, taking notes.

Barry Conrad

Okay. Well also what's your definition of a Dutch oven? Because it might be different.

Melanie Avalon

Like, like a cast iron, like who set, which I thought was like her set, but then I heard it pronounced like crusade. So now I'm wondering if I'm pronouncing that brand wrong, which is embarrassing, but.

Barry Conrad

Ah, ah, ah, ah, yes, I do have one of those. Sorry, that's, we don't, yeah, I do have, we do here. I do have one.

Melanie Avalon

Is it la crusade or la crusade?

Barry Conrad

Like we say, but I mean, I guess tomato, tomato.

Melanie Avalon

It's La Crucet. I'm so embarrassed. I have said La Crucet so many times on so many podcasts.

Barry Conrad

Do you say Follette? No. I knew the answer to that. I'm just trying to be...

Melanie Avalon

Can't believe I say okay, so I cook the scallops in there and I cook them it sounds like gross to say this way but in their own juices like I don't add any water or anything because they're so They're so like water like they're so like full of water that you can cook them and it it's like all fine

Barry Conrad

Okay, no take-in.

Melanie Avalon

So, okay, shall we move on to our entree?

Barry Conrad

Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon

Your dinner does include fresh vegetables and your choice of a of their farmhouse special potatoes. Do you want my potatoes?

Barry Conrad

absolutely. I love potatoes. We're doing that.

Melanie Avalon

You get to choose from skin-on-garlic mashed potatoes, jumbo baker, or golden wedges. Which would you have?

Barry Conrad

I'm not going to do mashed potatoes. I prefer like sort of like whole sort of potatoes. So whatever the, whichever one of those means that.

Melanie Avalon

So the jumbo baker, because yeah, the jumbo baker, because the golden wedges are probably like fries.

Barry Conrad

I'm not doing that. I'll do the jumbo Baker skin on. Let's do it. And I would get the,

Melanie Avalon

Oh, and it's organized by for friends. It's organized by wild game tame game.  So wild game is like their specialties tame game, which is beef and steaks and then fish and seafood and then the birds and then pork. Oh, this menu is amazing. Okay.

Barry Conrad

It's actually amazing.

Melanie Avalon

So what would you get?

Barry Conrad

this is this is really tough i don't know what this is and can we just get it's just one man's right

Melanie Avalon

No, you can't. No, no, no, you can get, I mean, you can get two. I would get two. I'm gonna do.

Barry Conrad

I'm going to get the Saskatoon mixed grill, which is, it says here, chef's choice, a selection of three wild game cuts with the mild mushroom cream, which I love mushroom sauce of any kind. And so listeners, basically that grill is like the, like the, it's the elk, the lamb and the antelope all in there anyway.  So that was separate. So I'm just putting in that grill. And then the second one, this is tough.

Melanie Avalon

The thing though is we'd have to talk to the waiter because it sounds like the mixed grill might be things not featured on the menu as well because it says ask your server. So it might include lamb, elk, or antelope, and it might also have other things.  I must go to this restaurant.

Barry Conrad

Yeah, I feel like we both should because this is a very us like a very protein heavy amazing place Assuming that it's got just the wild game Selections in that mixed grill i'll go with that and then i'm gonna go for my second option a seafood situation which would be the Sizzling rainbow trout and so fresh from the cold clear idaho waters And grilled for a light smoky flavor served sizzling in the pan With your choice of citrus plum sauce or lemon pepper seasonings and garnish with a large Shrimp delicious.  That's me

Melanie Avalon

I love that they have two salmons. They have a cedar plank salmon and a pecan crusted salmon.

Barry Conrad

I haven't tried to become aggressive before.

Melanie Avalon

So for me, I will also get to, so I want everything. I want the entire menu. I think I have to get Antelope because I don't know that I've ever seen Antelope on a menu until this moment. Have you?

Barry Conrad

No, not on the menu.

Melanie Avalon

I haven't. This is a first right now happening in real time. So eight ounce free range and field harvested from Texas, char grilled over live flame, very lean and high in protein. So I think I'm going to get that and I'm going to get it as rare as they will bring it.  And I have to ask about the mixed grill because if they have something else, they also have an elk loin. Oh, this is so hard. Okay. I'm gonna get the antelope, the elk loin, which is eight ounce portion with grilled portobellas and our signature ginger demi glaze. But I'm gonna get all that on the side. And then for dessert, I'm going to get some seafood. So

Barry Conrad

Of course, you know, Melanie, like when we, if this was like real IRL, we would definitely just order like a whole bunch of things and just like, you know, have like a massive table.

Melanie Avalon

because there's another section, the specials. What? Yeah, with a kangaroo filet, ostrich filet, stop it.

Barry Conrad

Oh my gosh. Okay. There's odd. I didn't see that. Okay.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, I have to change my answer. Me too.  I have to go here like multiple times because I think, okay, so I think what I'm going to do because I want everything, I'm going to get the two things that I have never seen on a mini before, which is the ostrich fillet and the antelope.

Barry Conrad

That makes sense. I get that.

Melanie Avalon

Did your answer change based on the specials?

Barry Conrad

You know what, I'll stick to my answer. I'm happy with that. Cause I've actually had ostrich pie before.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, you have?

Barry Conrad

Yeah, in South Africa. How's that? Delicious. It tastes a bit like chicken. Well, it tastes like chicken.

Melanie Avalon

So I was going to ask is it like chicken? Is it like a white meat?

Barry Conrad

It's a white meat and it was like a creamy sauce and it was really, really good. That's something that I fondly remember as a kid in South Africa, ostrich pie, really good.

Melanie Avalon

Wow, okay. Well, you know, this is not... Okay, let me see how far this is from me. My sister and I were talking about this and we want to go on a road trip. So you should come with us.

Barry Conrad

So you could try some of these, try some of these, the restaurants that we've talked about.

Melanie Avalon

It is directions.

Barry Conrad

Honestly, this looks really good now. This restaurant is, like, delicious.

Melanie Avalon

So it's, oh my gosh, it's only, what? It is only two hours and seven minutes from me.

Barry Conrad

Woah, what do you mean you could drive there tomorrow night for dinner? Literally.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness. Okay, I have to go. You have to come too.

Barry Conrad

Oh my God, I'm jealous that you get to just go. You can literally just jump in your car. It's basically like being in peak hour traffic for a little bit extra time.

Melanie Avalon

That's the funny thing is like literally, yes, you could go somewhere here in Atlanta for two hours or for an LA like two hours, same amount of time as Saskatoon Greenville. So dessert.  What would you get for dessert?

Barry Conrad

Okay. So let's go to the desserts. I'm going to go for a couple of things.  I'm going to go with the chocolate mousse pie, which looks really good. And mousse is spelled M-O-O-S-E. So it's not like mousse, like desserty mousse. So I'm curious to see what that's going to be like.

Melanie Avalon

because this restaurant.

Barry Conrad

And then I'm going to go the better than sliced bread in quotation marks, bread pudding to go. If I can get that on like as a second, that'd be really good. What about you?

Melanie Avalon

I am going to have, I think I'm going to have the trout.

Barry Conrad

For dessert.

Melanie Avalon

Because it's like light, you know? So it's a really nice way to end the meal. And I love trout. And it's low in mercury. It's delicious.

Barry Conrad

I feel like this restaurant would actually, it'd be an easy eat because the food is like it's mainly, it's so high protein so I don't think it's going to feel bad, you know, quote unquote bad in your gut, yeah.

Melanie Avalon

It literally looks amazing. Like I wish it was here because I want so many things.

Barry Conrad

Well, Melanie, didn't you say it's two hours and a bit to drive there from where you are?

Melanie Avalon

Yep. So Saskatoon, here I come only a decade later, but I'm going to show up and be like, hi. Remember me? Here I am.

Barry Conrad

And then you'll be, we'll see like a thing in your story, you know, where to, friends? Hint.

Melanie Avalon

Yup. Oh my gosh, the emojis. The emojis can be like every single animal that they have. Which is, this may be the most animals I've seen represented on a menu. In like one menu. From all over.

Barry Conrad

I'm really curious as to why that is, like the region will let you know, like why.

Melanie Avalon

Like, like why he's doing

Barry Conrad

this. Like why they have some like access to so many, I guess, like it's just so much variety of animals in this region, I guess, Greenville.

Melanie Avalon

I think it's about his just like his love for this, you know, like his love for so he's making it happen. I don't think it's the location. It's definitely not the location.  It's the the founder doing his passion. So this was super fun for listeners. You definitely need to let us know what you would order at a restaurant like this. I wonder I want to know if like people are as crazy as I am with everything.

Barry Conrad

Well, we actually like to add on to what Mel said, like we want to know like, what would you order? We should, you know, put it out there because we want to see how you would do it.  You know, are you a Barry? Are you a Mel or somewhere in between in your order style?

Melanie Avalon

or none of the above.

Barry Conrad

Or none of the above?

Melanie Avalon

Yep. You can email us at questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com. You can submit questions there. We would love to hear from you.  These show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 419. They will have a transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. That's where I post all the and we are I have podcast. I think that's all the things.  Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad

Have an awesome week, everyone, and don't be shy. Get at us on social media.  We'd love to keep hearing from you what you're up to, what your fasting's like, what you'd order. And yeah, we'll talk to you next week.

Melanie Avalon

Alright, I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad

Bye!

Melanie Avalon

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intramusian Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.  If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!


Apr 21

Episode 418 – Special Guest Allison Schaaf, Fast Easy Healthy Meal Prep, Saving Time With Meals, Decluttering Your Kitchen, How To Approach Meals With Kids, Creating Recipes, Getting Enough Protein, Integrating Meat At Breakfast, Using Instacart, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 418 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC


SPECIAL GUEST BIO

Allison Schaaf is the founder and CEO of Prep Dish, a meal-planning service that helps busy individuals and families save time while enjoying healthy, stress-free meals. As a registered dietitian and trained chef, Allison combines her expertise in nutrition and culinary arts to create practical, delicious meal plans designed for real life. With a passion for simplifying mealtime, she has helped thousands of subscribers reclaim their evenings and enjoy meal time.
Beyond Prep Dish, Allison is also the founder of the nonprofit, Miscarriage Hope Desk, a resource for women navigating miscarriage and recurrent pregnancy loss. Through this platform, she offers support, education, and community for those on their fertility journey.


Allison is also the host of the Meal Prep Monday Podcast™: 10 minutes of actionable meal prep advice, helping you answer the dreaded “What's for Dinner?” question with ease.

Allison and her husband have 3 young boys and enjoy living in the Texas Hill Country with their chickens, goats, cats and bees.


LEARN MORE

Website } Meal Prep Monday Podcast™ | IG


Plus, my listeners can get a 2 week free trial at prepdish.com/melanieavalon!

SHOW NOTES


SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS


PIQUE FASTING TEAS

Need the perfect drink for your fast? Fasting just got way easier with Pique tea! Created with Dr. Jason Fung, Pique's organic, toxin-free fasting teas curb your appetite, boost your metabolism, and keep you going strong. Get up to 20% off plus a free beaker at piquelife.com/ifpodcast.


LMNT

Cold weather depletes electrolytes, leaving you fatigued and foggy. LMNT delivers the perfect balance—without sugar or fillers—to keep you energized and feeling your best! Get a free sample pack with any purchase at drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast.



If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!


Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.


Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)


Melanie Avalon

Welcome to Episode 418 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.  Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 418 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I am here today with a very special guest. I am so excited about this interview. And what's funny is I was just talking with this fabulous human being right before this. And I actually, I have been so familiar with what this woman is doing and such a fan of her company and her brand for so long that I couldn't even remember if she had been on the show before. I've been hearing about her company, Prep Dish, on my friend Noelle Tarr's Well-fed Women Podcast, which used to be the Paleo Women Podcast. And I was such a fan of Prep Dish from that podcast. And then Allison and Prep Dish actually sponsored our show years and years ago. So yeah, that's why I couldn't actually remember if Allison had been on the show. I'm here with Allison Shaff, the founder and CEO of Prep Dish. They're such a cool service, and we're going to dive all into it. But they're a meal planning service so that you can easily save time, optimize your grocery shopping, make really healthy, stress-free meals that fit your own dietary needs and protocols, and all the things. It is so cool. I think it can really, really help optimize people's lives when it comes to time and health and wellness and all the things. So Allison, thank you so much for being here.

Allison Schaaf

Thank you for having me and I am also just so excited to talk with you. I've been a fan of your work and your podcast for so long and we're finally making it happen.

Melanie Avalon

glad to be here. Yeah, this has been such a long time coming. I'm really excited because I've always been so inspired by what you're doing with this company. So I'm super curious.  Okay, when did you launch prep dish? How long ago? 2012. So it's it's been a while. Okay, wow. Long time ago. What's your background?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah. So I started out, my background is I'm a dietician, but also went to culinary school. So I've always had both the culinary background and the nutrition background and always was looking for ways to combine the two. When I was cooking, it was always through a nutrition lens. And when I was doing nutrition, it was always through the culinary lens.  And I started out as a personal chef going into people's homes and cooking for them. And while I really enjoyed it, I knew when doing it, I was like, this is not going to be sustainable for when I have a family someday. And then also, I wanted to reach more people. If I'm cooking for people one on one, I maxed out really quick with my clients. I started hiring chefs, but that was a lot of work. And so I was like, how can I... And that was kind of when the online stuff was just coming out. So I was like, how can I write down this system that I've created and working with my clients and write out these recipes and then just get it into people's hands? Because I'd kind of come up with all these efficiencies and better ways of preparing meals. And so that's what I did is while I was going in and working with clients, I was writing down my systems and putting it into a PDF and then eventually got it online and out to the masses.

Melanie Avalon

I love that so much. It's kind of similar. I feel like it's a little bit similar with what I do, because people, at least like my parents and people will often ask me if I want to be, if I ever wanted to be like a doctor, like individually working with people on health. And for me, what I love is having this platform where I get to take all this information that I love and spread it, you know, make it like mainstream and like reach a lot of people.  So it's kind of like, I feel like it's kind of similar, but it's like on the food, the food side of things. When you were working as a private chef, or like and working privately with clients, like when you were coming up with meals, were there ever meals that you really loved that the clients didn't like or vice versa, meals that you weren't so sure about, but you'd be surprised that they liked? Like what was the collaborative experience like working with people and creating these meals?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, it was interesting. I always try to elicit feedback as much as possible, just like I do now with the meal plans. And there were some clients that would do a good job. What I did is I print out the menu. And what I would tell them to do is just on the menu that was printed out, write any notes of things they liked or didn't like. And before I even started here, I went through an extensive questionnaire of, you know, what do you like and not like in your preferences. And it was really good feedback, though. And just in creating these meal plans of what types of foods people like, what were the things. And even if they weren't giving me the feedback, they they would in what they selected, right. So I'd send out options each week. And the thing that I found interesting is a lot there were a few where I would always try and like mix in all this variety. But I'd put in a few that I knew they liked, like lasagna or something. And there were they would always go back to the same things versus like, I would want to do more variety. And sometimes they would want to do more of the like staples or things they enjoyed. So that was interesting.  And yeah, there were definitely some dishes that like every client liked, like lasagna being one of them. And then the other is, you know, kind of dependent client to client.

Melanie Avalon

What about your personal palette? Do you like most foods and can you create dishes and recipes that you like even if you don't actually like the food?

Allison Schaaf

No, actually, I think this is the short answer. I'm pretty open on things, but I will say like, so I'm gluten free, so all of the meal plans are gluten free for that reason.  We've always had people push us to do vegetarian, but I can't do that many carbs and that many like, I can do some of like all of those things, but to do just straight up vegetarian plans because so I'm not creating the recipes anymore, I have another chef dietitian that's doing that, but I do test them sometimes and also just kind of out of principle. So I don't do the vegetarians. We do have one meal week on one of the plans that is a vegetarian dish, but to just do all vegetarian is too much. So that's kind of where I draw the line, I guess. But all of the others, you know, I'm pretty I can do all the different flavors and stuff like that.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. So I think that's something people will be excited about with prep dish, which we can, we can talk a little bit more about how it works, but you do understand this need for protein. We talk all the time. It's one of the, probably the topics we talk about the most on this show besides actually fasting, which is people really struggle, especially with intermittent fasting to get enough protein in their eating window.  Yeah. How do you integrate protein into the meals?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, that's something and we focused even more on that in the past few years. And that's something where, you know, one we're calculating to make sure that there's, so our meals, there's one that we guarantee it's at least 30 grams of protein per serving with our super fast meal plans.  And just one thing we've also helped a lot is like giving resources for getting more protein at breakfast and how to incorporate meat into the first meal of the day. So even if you're fasting, like I know sometimes it's just like we're not always raised to like eat meat when we first are eating no matter what time of the day that is. And so just kind of coming up with creative palatable ways to get in enough protein and also things like specific to breakfast, like it's not easy to eat enough eggs to get enough protein at six grams of protein per egg. So what I found is it's easier to do like a combination of some protein and some eggs or, you know, such that you're mixing up the protein sources and that way it's palatable. So it's really just like, okay, let's figure out how to get the protein. But then also how do I actually make it palatable? And it's something I can sit down and eat in one setting.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, I have a major question there and I based on when this airs, I don't know how much this will still be an issue or not, but do you adjust for the market? So like with eggs, the egg craziness, the egg scarcity and price increase, do you adjust for things like that?  We do.

Allison Schaaf

try and be really aware of prices and what's out there and if there are cost issues or even scarcity type issues. One thing that we always do is we keep things flexible, right?  So that you can always sub things like whether it's, oh, I don't like broccoli, so I'm going to sub with asparagus, or my preference is... Or you have a food intolerance, we keep it really open for that. And same thing with cost. So if there's something that we know is a higher cost item, then we may even on the menu just say, hey, instead of the lamb chops, you could sub it with a pork chop or something that's a little more cost efficient. So we do try and keep them to where they can make them their own, depending on whether it's preferences, allergies, or cost.

Melanie Avalon

Awesome. Okay.  And I feel like I definitely want to give a foundational overview still related to that really quickly with making things your own. When you eat out at restaurants, do you make a lot of modifications or do you order things as they come? I'm just like so crazy at restaurants. So I'm always curious how people, especially people with really culinary backgrounds, how they navigate restaurants and if they're gluten free.

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, it's interesting you say that I have a friend who's notorious. She we always joke that the menu is a suggestion merely a suggestion for her like she's always like picking and choosing all the things and like any menu that's like no modifications. Thank you.  She's like, Oh, no. And she does have kind of some intolerances and stuff. And I will sometimes especially with the gluten thing. But you know, I'm in the Austin area. So I found most places are really good with that. But yeah, there's, there's signs are I'm trying to do some switching around and substitution.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, it's just funny because I'm like your friend. I'm like, it's just a suggestion. And it's very rare actually that I come against a wall where they can't make a suggestion. Although that actually happened over the weekend because like most of their meats were pre-marinated in things. So I couldn't, I just couldn't change that. But yeah, okay, that's funny.  Okay, just to give listeners an overview because I think when it comes to making mealtime easier and more efficient and more cost-effective and also more tasty, I think the first thing people think of is like meal delivery services or meal kits. That's the first thing, at least for me, that comes to mind. So this is not that. This is a meal planning service. So can you describe to listeners a little bit how it actually works, especially like in with our, you know, our modern internet and I mean, the internet has been around for a long time, but like with the internet and stuff, people might think, oh, I can just find recipes online. So like, how is this actually optimizing people's lives when it comes to their meals?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, sure. So I'll take a step back first.  And I know this is a podcast, so it's not visual, but I'm a visual person. So the meal plans are literally like a PDF that comes to you in three different pieces. And I'll explain those pieces. And as I explained them, sure, you can put them together on your own. It's just whether you want to spend that time upfront and doing that, which is kind of, you know, one or two hours, or if you want someone to just do it for you and hand it to you. So the three pieces, the first one is the grocery list. So at the top, it's, you know, the five meals depends on that. We have a few different plans. So they're kind of set up slightly differently, but say like five meals for the week, and then the grocery list that you need to make those meals, there's some things there, like it's done really efficiently. So if you're going to use half of an onion for a soup, the other half of the onion gets used in a dish later that week. If you're making a chimichurri, maybe you use it on Monday with the salmon and again on a salad on Wednesday. So everything is like really considered, I guess, in terms of the ingredients, the flavors, the, you know, variety, all of those things. So it's really well thought out.  The second piece is a meal prep piece. So that's very specific instructions of like, Hey, if you have an hour at the beginning of the week, sometimes I even do it like to, you know, on a Monday night, right before dinner, I just do some of my chopping for the week. But it's like, Hey, here's some tasks that you can do upfront, whether it's, you know, 30 minutes in the afternoon, or like while you're making dinner, and you do all these prep things. So then the rest of the week, the dinners are just like almost like a meal kit, you know, you don't even have to chop them. It's like, Oh, the marinade is already done. My carrots are chopped, I just have to throw it in the saute pan. The third piece is the actual instructions of what you need to do at dinner time. And that's where we try and keep it super simple. The thing I try and avoid is having to do much, not just thinking, but also work at dinner time.  Because by the time that time comes around, if you're exhausted, if you've had a long day, that's when you're going to make poor nutrition choices. And so to me, the key to healthy eating is having that plan and that heavy lifting done upfront. So when you get to dinner time, it's like a no brainer, you don't have to think, Oh, what am I going to make? And I know I should be healthy, but maybe I should just call and take out and blah, blah, you know, so it's like if you've done all the work up front, it just makes that decision. Like, it's not a decision, right? It's just there, it's in the fridge, it's already chopped, you just here's what you do, you follow the instructions.

Melanie Avalon

Awesome. And so, because I think the last time we were sponsored by you guys was, I mean, a while ago, probably like four years, five years ago.  Is it still the setup where you have like a grocery shopping day? Like you do all, like the majority of your prep all at once, and then then throughout the week, everything's like pre-prepped. So then you still cook it fresh the day of, but it's mostly like pre-prepped.

Allison Schaaf

Exactly, yeah, so that prep days like sauces and chopping and then, yeah, dinner is just kind of the finishing steps.

Melanie Avalon

Awesome. Yeah, that must be a game changer, especially for parents.  And so you have you have three young boys? Yes, I do. So has that has having children yourself come to inform your like how you approach all of this?

Allison Schaaf

It does. It's interesting. It's more like the whole concept of using meal plans has come full circle, because in the past, I used them and they were great. But now it's I literally rely on them week to week, you know, it's like I have got to order the groceries, I've got to do this, I've got to have it printed. So if I'm not, you know, there, someone else can step in. And like, it is we rely on them in a way that I didn't in the past, you know, I used them and I thought they're great. But now it's like they are our lifeline to eating healthy throughout the week.  And, you know, it has given me some insight in terms of, you know, dealing with, you know, picky eaters and such. But, you know, my kids honestly are pretty, they're pretty good eaters. So I haven't dealt too much with that. But it, you know, it's been interesting to just watch it in action with a full family. How old are they? Six, four and 14 months. So they're pretty young.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness, oh wow, okay, and boys, all boys, they eat a lot. Oh yeah, do they? I bet, oh my goodness.

Allison Schaaf

Even the 14-month-old, he can go to town on some chicken thighs. I don't know what it is about chicken thighs, but he loves that.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness. Is it all gluten free in your household?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, it's easier that way. I'm the only one with the intolerance, but it's just easier to have it be across the board, no gluten.

Melanie Avalon

You have thoughts, experience, or advice with raising kids, how to encourage them to make healthy food choices, but also not have them feel... I mean, I guess your kids are still young, but not have them feel like they can't eat, that they can't eat the things their friends are eating, or how are you going to deal with that?

Allison Schaaf

It's, I will say, it's really hard. I've been surprised at how early and often it comes up. It's like every, like I, in the house, you know, we eat the way I eat and, you know, like, sure, like it, you know, Easter's coming up. Like, I'll make like a carrot cake and all that. Like, so I'll make things like that, but it's like, you know, special occasions and we don't treat it as, I think one thing is to not treat it as like so special that then they like, it's this thing they only get and they crave and they go crazy.  But it's hard because when we go out into the like, quote unquote, real world, it's just like a bombardment of like mainly sugar, but just all sorts of stuff that I would prefer they not eat on a regular basis. So it's really hard to filter out like, okay, it's okay for them to have that sometimes and on occasion, but like, the more you go out and like, even when we're traveling, I find that I do a lot of Airbnb's and like, having some meals at home and that sort of thing. But yeah, like we go to church and they have donuts and this and that and it's like, well, if that's every week that adds up. So, you know, I don't know, some strategies are volunteer to bring snacks, volunteer to be the snack person. And, you know, kind of know what you're getting into. And sometimes I see where, where can I avoid the snacks and other times I just have to, you know, loosen up about it, to be honest, it's, it's been interesting.

Melanie Avalon

I literally just applaud moms out there and I don't think I'll ever have kids.  I just don't like see it in my life, but I that's one it like this issue is one of the things I think I would most Just be I don't know. It just seems like a really big challenge

Allison Schaaf

Yeah. I mean, the only place that I'm really blessed is their school is amazing. They go to a small Waldorf school and the chef like sources the food. I mean, the families will donate like lamb that they have from their ranch and venison and, you know, just really high quality. They have ferments every week. I mean, just insanely healthy. So that does help me feel better that here and at school, they have this like really healthy foundation.  And so their bodies, I mean, gosh, I think back to what I ate when I was that age, like I think their bodies can tolerate the things they're getting.

Melanie Avalon

Um in between that's amazing. Okay. I love that. Do they have a favorite recipe of yours?

Allison Schaaf

I don't know if there's like one recipe that like, oh, that's the one some things that I know have always been favorites meatballs or something that kids like, they always seem to like, some of them will go through phases. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, my kids are really good eaters.  So they kind of like most of it. Yeah, the one thing I've had to do sometimes with them is I found it is easier to instead of mixing everything into like one pot, sometimes like separating it out. I think they I've done that a little bit. So that's kind of the adjustment I've made, they prefer it being separated. It's a little less overwhelming that way, you know, if like, if I have a big salad, I wouldn't serve a thing of greens with like the chicken and the, you know, beans and the sweet potato, like all mixed together, I'd be like, Okay, here's the lettuce, here's this, here's this, and they'll eat all of the things. But I think when it's just all mixed together, sometimes that's overwhelming.

Melanie Avalon

So you said that you now have, you know, somebody creating the recipes on your team. Do you still, do you ever get like inspirations though for new recipes? Like what's your creative, like do you, are you ever in the shower and like a recipe comes to you like a new recipe?

Allison Schaaf

I don't know if that happens as much anymore. I did, it was funny though. I did have a meal plan editing dream the other night. I haven't had one of those in years. Oh really?

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. Just like what happened last night? A nightmare or a good dream?

Allison Schaaf

It was a good dream, but it was, I mean, it's kind of vague. That's how dreams are. But I was like, oh, I haven't had one of those in a while.  So yeah, I will. We do have a board that anyone on the team can actually access. So if they make a recipe or if they see something on Instagram that we want to try, then we'll always, you know, we can add that to it and she can put that in there. And what she does is she looks per quarter. She looks at the new menu items and so she creates them. Then she sends them to me, I give any feedback and then she goes through and writes the recipes. And then when it's time for testing them, we divvy it up amongst the teams. That way everyone on the team can kind of be involved and they just test them out at their house, you know, with their family. And then we go through, do a final round of edits and then they're released out.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, wow. Do you know, going back to when you launched in 2012, are there any recipes from the original days?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, there's a few that sometimes we'll like bring back. And then there's something like, oh, I missed that like soup recipe, like there was a roasted red pepper and sweet potato. And they're like, maybe we should bring that back. And yeah, there's different plans.  So super fast, it's like brand new recipes each week. But some of the others, what we do is like each year, we'll just like cycle in new recipes, not like the entire menu is new. We do surveys, so we'll be like, okay, whichever ones were hit, we'll keep those in there. Because I mean, at the end of the day, and that's the thing, like I said, I learned with the clients, like people don't want brand new recipes all the time, like they want to see that like, you know, salt and pepper chicken drumstick stick, which is simple, but a favorite, like, you know, they want to see those come back. So we mix things up. But we also like don't scrap all of them except for with the super fast.

Melanie Avalon

Do the recipes adjust for your family size?

Allison Schaaf

So the recipes are quote unquote for servings, but we don't do a lot of like, you know, I'm not into calorie counting. I mean, with kids, especially, it's crazy, because like, they really do. And I've read this of like, you know, they don't adjust, you know, I always think like, Oh, you eat kind of the same amount, like ever, you know, however many meals and each day, with kids, it's like you really have to look at their caloric and take over the course of a week, like they will have meals where they almost nothing, you're like, that's all you're eating. I mean, I don't say that, because it's better not to comment. But over the course of a week, research shows they will eat, you know, a consistent amount and like what they need.  But like meal to meal, and even like within the course of a day, some days they'll have days where they don't eat a lot. And other days they'll eat a ton. Anyway, so back to the sermons. Yes, they, they each are for servings. And then if people want to adjust, they just, you know, they can double actually at my house, I usually always double just so I have leftovers for lunch. And honestly, sometimes I just have to double so we have enough for all of us because we have, you know, my family, then we have no pairs, we're feeding a lot of people. And yeah, but that's the nice thing about having the meal plan versus the kit, is a lot of times people can look at a recipe and know like, Oh, I know that my family needs, you know, two pounds of protein for dinner, or four pounds of protein for dinner. And so they can kind of adjust based on that. And they know, like, okay, one bunch of broccoli is fine, or one bunch of sari asparagus is fine. Whereas some families, maybe they need two bunches, because they just know their family, like eats a lot of veggies. So I think that's the nice thing is it is flexible to where they can, you know, everyone can adjust based on, you know, knowing their family, and you kind of learn that over time of like, how much, you know, there's certain proteins that I know in my family, oh, we're gonna eat more than what it calls for. But others, it's like, okay, we'll eat that amount.

Melanie Avalon

So you commented how you don't comment on the kids, like how much they're eating. How do you feel about that?  Do you just let your kids eat whatever amount they eat and you respect that? Do you think, do you encourage them to eat more or less? How do you deal that?

Allison Schaaf

So there's a dietician, Ellen Satter, and she has this philosophy and it's, you know, as the parent, I decide what and when I'm going to feed them, right? Like we have set meal times and set snack times, and I decide what's being served at those meals and snacks. It's their decision to decide what and how much they eat. And I have no opinion on that.  And I try to like not even pay attention. And this is I think actually where parents really with very good intentions can get it wrong, you know, by making those comments by, you know, focusing on it by making, you know, saying things like, Oh, it's so yummy. It's like kids catch on to that. They are smart, you know, you don't like if you legitimately like something like, sure, I'll comment on the food, but I'm not going to make a comment on it to try and like manipulate them because it's going to do the opposite. They're going to feel the force and they're not going to eat it. So I just don't comment. And my kids eventually they try everything I serve them. The other thing I remind parents is often if it's a new food or something they haven't seen in a while, maybe at dinner, they don't eat it. But if we have again at lunch the next day, they'll eat it. Even at dinner, sometimes my kids I have one when he always is like, Oh, I don't like that. I'm like, okay, then don't eat it. And nine times out of 10 by the end of the dinner, he's eating it. He just wants to not be forced. He wants, they want to like sometimes they're just playing around with their independence and they want to be able to make the comment of saying, I don't like that. And here you say like, that's okay, you know, and not like forcing. It's funny because his older brother old sometimes be like, but you just had that like three nights ago. You do like it. And I want to say that, but I know it's better like not to.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. So would you like make them try everything or if they don't even want to try it? I know you said that they tend to try everything, but.

Allison Schaaf

I don't yeah, I've never I've never had said I don't have the one bite rule I just put it on their plate and then they decide and but i've never had any issues with things, you know

Melanie Avalon

This is so interesting. If I ever were to have kids, this is what I'm going to adopt. I love this. Sounds like a great system.  And then the other question I had was if people really are looking to optimize their time with all of this, and I actually have another question about time, but if they are looking to do that, could you with the recipes even use like Instacart or something? Like could you have somebody get all the ingredients?

Allison Schaaf

By the time this airs, I can almost guarantee we have Instacart set up to where you can click and it'll automatically fill an Instacart cart. So we're testing it right now. And like, I think it's going to launch tomorrow or the next day.  Oh, wow. Congrats. Yes. So I've wanted that for a long time. And I'm really excited to have that because I do most of my grocery shopping online, but to have the cart pre filled. And then you can go in and like, okay, what are like the things that I need to add? And, you know, you can kind of like play around with it and adjust it. But yeah, to have it pre filled and then only make some tweaks, I'm excited because it's going to save me a significant amount of time and like, make it easier to not put off that grocery putting in that grocery order.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, that's amazing. Okay.  Yeah, and I'm so fascinated by this whole business creation process. So was there a moment where you've had the idea for this company? Or like, do you remember or was it? Did you ideate on it a little bit?

Allison Schaaf

I kind of ideated on it for a little bit. I remember the first year that I did it. This was funny.  The first year, I was like, okay, I'm going to have four, like literally four meal plans. You know, like one for the spring, one for summer, one for fall, one for winter. And I was working with this business coach. He's actually now a close friend of mine and she was like, Allison, you've got it. Like, I think you can actually do more than that. And so then I was like, because I couldn't wrap my head around doing more than forks. They took so long to make. And then, and then like a few months later, it was like, okay, after I launched, I was like, okay, I actually need to do one each week. And I thought that they were going to be like $25 per meal plan, like per week, because they took me so much time to create in the beginning. And then she kind of helped me come up with ways to make it more efficient and then, you know, over time. And then now it's like, well, we have four meal plans each week that we're cycling through. So it's, you know, but it was a journey that first year to kind of figure out how like just to wrap my head around like what was possible.

Melanie Avalon

Wow. So is it is it seasonal eating? Is there like seasonal theming to everything?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, for sure. In the winter, it'll be more soups and stews. In the summer, we use the grill some. There are more salads and also just seasonal.  I mean, any more of the grocery store things are not as seasonal, but there still is. And we try and rely more on a summer tomato or, I don't know, root winter veggies in the winter and in the spring, more peas and asparagus.

Melanie Avalon

How did you build an audience? Like, how did you find the people?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, it took a while to figure that out, and that's changed over the years, you know? Gosh, in the beginning, so it's funny now, you know, they say, oh, it's like they call them influencers. But back then, I don't think that's what it was called, but you know, there were bloggers. So I would like work with bloggers to get the word out.  And then there was one, and I don't even know if she still, but it's 100 days of real food. That was a really popular one. And so I would, and she would do Facebook posts. And so that would like help build the audiences. And I think we did like Facebook videos together and stuff. But that was some of what we did back then was working with bloggers and also like Facebook posts or sometimes like email, sponsored emails. So it's always been some version of like working with influencers that just kind of evolved like even what they're called and where they're at. Like is it on a blog? Is it on Facebook? Is it on podcasts? Is it on Instagram? And I'm just kind of figuring that out. And then, you know, of course, word of mouth has always been really big for us. It's just, you know, people, people sharing it.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah. And like I was saying, I remember hearing you on the podcast all the time. I just thought it was so unique because like I said, I just would think of meal delivery kit services. I hadn't heard of this comprehensive meal planning idea with the Instacart thing, which I think is really exciting.  Have there been certain benchmarks throughout the evolution of the company that were exciting next step moments for you, like the Instacart thing? Have there been other ones?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, the Instacart one. I mean, bringing on the super fast plan was, that was kind of a funny story because that was, now it's been quite a few years, but there was a podcaster. It was like, I can't remember his name, but it was a male fitness podcaster. And he was big into like efficiency too. And you know, the meal prep on the plans is like, you know, one to two hours. But he's like, no, he's like, you've got to do it. He's like, I want you to do a plan for me. That's like less than an hour of meal prep. Like that's what you have to do. And he challenged me. And we did like a challenge, I think, where it was like, oh, here's these super fast plans, but everyone loved it. And so then we just incorporated that.  And now like one of our plans that you get each week, and it's our most popular plan is our super fast. And that's where it's like an hour or less of prep to get everything ready for the week. And it, you know, just really, it's, they're still very like healthy. It just relies more on, you know, pre chopped vegetables and leans more into like, okay, if we're going to make a salad dressing, let's double it and have it also be a marinade. And so just like really, like leaning into all those efficiency hacks.

Melanie Avalon

Okay, I love this. I have an idea for you for it, although it might already be integrated, so I'll have to ask. But before that, as far as the actual time saved, so I love this, you know, the super fast idea.  Well, first of all, never having been a parent with children and a family and meal prepping, I don't know how much time it normally takes to do all this. I imagine it takes a lot more than I envision it takes. So how much time realistically, do you find people saved by using this service?

Allison Schaaf

I know that's that one's tricky. And we've tried actually in the past, like to quantify yeah, to do that and to be able to like have these hours and put it into marketing. And I've, I've seen other meal plan services like do that. And it's tricky because it's not something I would like geek out on that. Like I love like things like tracking my time and knowing how much time things take, but like other people are not really good at doing that. So we haven't ever, I don't know, I don't have good numbers for you.  But I can say, I mean, people definitely will say like, it saves a lot of time. The other big thing that people comment on is it really prevents them from eating out as much like if they want, you know, if you're wanting to eat healthy, a lot of times that is like, how do I not do takeout, you know, and, and the thing they realize is like takeout actually isn't saving them a ton of time, right? Like they're stopping to go through the process and make the decision and do the order or maybe, you know, you know, they're still like cleanup, if you have it brought to the house, like there's still some cleanup and this and that. So it's just kind of being more organized with it and having this system and, but yeah, for sure. I mean, some people will say like five to 10 hours because, you know, in the beginning of the week, just like looking up recipes and planning out your grocery list, like that can easily be, you know, two hours or more just figuring out like what we're going to eat and how do I turn that into a grocery list. And then, you know, each night you're spending an hour to, you know, in the cleanups, maybe an extra 30 minutes, it's likely you can shave time off of that. So I don't know, there's, there's definitely.

Melanie Avalon

hours saved. I'm just thinking now it's funny so I think because we're airing this I think before okay so either last week's episode or next week's episode one of those episodes we talked about with my co-host Barry like what is the one health hack or bio hack we wish we had started sooner in our lives and mine was I just wish growing up I had eaten I wish in my like home environment it had been more like whole foods and less processed foods and I'm just thinking I wish my my wish my mom had had this service growing up because I feel like it would have just helped so much like so much for everybody.

Allison Schaaf

everybody. Yes, absolutely. Same. I mean, it's same thing. And even so not only for the health of the food, but the thing that's really cool is you can eventually like, I mean, I'm already getting my kids involved, you know, like they're helping out, they're doing chopping, they're doing all of these. I mean, I have, you know, the culinary background, so it's like really important to me as well. But because of the way the plans are designed, it's easy for people to pitch in to delegate tasks to have, oh, you know, give your husband the grocery list or you know, one night you're not home, whoever if the babysitter is there, she can read the instructions and pick up where you left off. So it's a good way to get everyone involved.  But yeah, definitely getting kids involved, not just with exposure and eating healthy, but like seeing how it's done, you know, like when I was a personal chef, I would do in home cooking classes. And it was just shocking how people had no, and I wasn't that surprised with my mom actually wasn't a huge cook, I kind of got more of it from my grandmother. But yeah, I mean, just a lot of times, kids will go to college and not even know how to make eggs.

Melanie Avalon

you mentioned that the fast version how many different versions of the plans are there so there are

Allison Schaaf

4 so super fast the one that I talked about there is gluten-free and then paleo So, you know the gluten-free would still have the grains where the paleo doesn't and you know has all the paleo Compliant and then we have a low carb as well. Okay

Melanie Avalon

Okay, awesome, is the low carb keto or is it just lower carb?

Allison Schaaf

So just lower carb, I'd have to go back to see, I don't remember our exact numbers on our criteria, but we did, we used to call it

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I think you did when we were last promoting it.

Allison Schaaf

structured it slightly different. I mean, the meals are still basically the same, but we don't do the fat bombs as much anymore. We didn't find that people really wanted those.  And then we also found that people weren't looking for a true keto. So it is low carb, but it's slightly different back from when we did call them keto, but not that different. Some of it was a marketing decision more than anything else.

Melanie Avalon

Keto is still very popular, but there definitely was a really intense like keto wave where people were you know much more into it would you ever have like a Like a romance or like a date night version for people cooking for their romantic dates and things

Allison Schaaf

I think we maybe haven't done that, you know, we'll do a lot of like bonus, bonus, like handouts or recipes, you know, so if someone's already a subscriber, like, we'll give them, you know, on Valentine's Day, I will sometimes incorporate things like that. So I feel like we did that one year and then yeah, I like over holidays, sometimes we'll try and give you like, Oh, like here's something you could make for Easter.  I keep thinking about since that's coming up or so things that aren't included in the meal plans, we will sometimes just give them here's a special, you know, so breakfast actually, because most of our meal plans don't include breakfast, but because we've done all this protein stuff work, I realized that breakfast is the place where people are falling significantly short on protein. So we've given more resources for that just given them to our subscribers and not part of a meal plan, just because I'm like, okay, if you're wanting to increase your protein, like it's important to get it dinner, but it's a lot easier to just naturally get enough protein at dinner. Whereas you have to make more of an effort. I find it some of the other meals.

Melanie Avalon

So to that point, so for people who are doing intermittent fasting, will it work with all different approaches to that or would they modify it? How would that work?

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, no, I think with intermittent fasting, it works just fine because, you know, like most of them are just dinner recipes. And I say dinner, but you know, hey, here's five recipes to use for meals throughout the week. You can use them for dinner, you can use them for lunch, you can, you know, like I said, I'll sometimes use them for dinner, but double it. So then I have leftovers for lunch.  So yeah, you can kind of because I know, you know, you do the home at or the one meal a day. And yeah, but you know, you can just have that be your one meal. And maybe, you know, if it's a couple, they can use it. And because it's for servings, or maybe they still double, you know, you kind of have to get and play around with it. The, the servings are a suggestion. It's, you know, you have to figure out what serving sizes work for you and the situation.  But yeah, the meals, we don't really designate like time of day or type of meal that you use for.

Melanie Avalon

And then do you provide wine pairings ever? That's my that's my idea

Allison Schaaf

That's my request. I would love that.  And I know that you and I are both fans of Dry Farm Wine. I'm on the Vivino app, and it's funny because I'll see you on there sometimes. I log my apps, and I love your tasty notes, by the way.

Melanie Avalon

I am wondering because I, oh my gosh, that's so funny, with the Vivino app, because I use dry farm wines and listeners are probably familiar because I talk about it all the time, but they provide a subscription service to organic, low alcohol, low sugar wines that they find in Europe and they test them to make sure they're organic and mold free and you really will feel so much different drinking them. So I'm always trying these new varietals because you get just random things to try and I am obsessed with the Vivino app and I leave reviews and I sometimes put my link in there as well and I always say it's dry farm wines.  A, I wonder if they're ever gonna kick me off of it because I put my link on there. You do the link? Yeah, it hasn't happened yet though, knock on wood. Two, I always wonder if listeners or somebody is gonna see me on there and be like, oh, that's so funny, do you leave reviews on it? I do.

Allison Schaaf

just because I like to go back. So I only, we only drink dry from wines we have for years. It's like the only thing we drink in our house. And yeah, I've always left the reviews because it's nice too.  If you get a repeat bottle, you can go back and you can look, but I've noticed lately the wines they've sent, I don't know if they're just like newer wines, but they're not always in there to leave. But yeah, we enjoy it too. We sit down and I got my husband one of those little wine wheels for his birthday one year. And so we'll sit down with the wine wheel and, and come up with the notes and just makes it, you know, more of a fun experience and more enjoyable, I guess.

Melanie Avalon

Oh, my goodness, I love this so much.  Okay, have you talked to you talk to their they call it like their VIP line, but anybody who's ordering from them can talk with them. Do you have our email with them?

Allison Schaaf

I have when, so the only issue, I mean, I love dry farm wines, but sometimes in August, because I'm in Texas, we've had the, they get over, they get corked or like whatever it's called when they're too hot. And so we've had to return them.  But I mean, I've had their, their people you talk to are amazing when you talk to them. But is there a specific thing that they're good to talk

Melanie Avalon

to about? Because I've been ordering from them since forever. It's like one of my earliest things in this whole world and podcasting and help stuff. So I used to just order, like have the box come surprise, like surprise varietals each time.  But then I started emailing with them and they are incredible. And they will actually, they'll like curate each box for you. And they'll like keep notes of what you like and don't like. So now all my orders, they like hand selected and I like asked for like extra low alcohol. So they're like 11.5% or less. And when you start talking to them, I don't know if this is, I'm guessing this is just how it goes down once you start talking to them. Because when you order through the subscription, like it takes, you know, I don't know, it takes a few days, I feel like to, it takes longer. When you're like emailing them, they like ship it right away. It's amazing. Start emailing them.

Allison Schaaf

Okay, I'm totally going to do that because we do have ours and I have once or twice like if I find one that I like, I've requested it or I've, there was one even one summer there was a white and I don't remember what it was right now but I really liked it so I just ordered like six of them or something but oh my gosh I'm totally going to do that and yeah I do like the I decide do like the lower alcohol and sugar ones so I would make that request too so I am definitely stealing that hack thank you.

Melanie Avalon

You're welcome. Oh, and so email them ask for Chiara. That's who I talked to. She's incredible. And she'll like remember what you like and like, yeah, and she'll make suggestion. She's the best.  And then when you, then when you want like gifts for people, it's amazing because you can, you can like ask your friends like what type of wines they like. And then I'll just tell Chiara and then she'll like send them a custom box. It's so great. Speaking of saving time. It's great.

Allison Schaaf

So the little hack that we have is whenever we're traveling, we will a few weeks in advance, just ship a box out. So that way, like if it's the holidays, and we're going to be there for a week, or even just a few days, we'll just send a box and then whatever we don't drink, like that's like a gift to them.  But then that way, we don't have to get to the location and like go buy wine. And we'll just have it there. And one time we even did a road trip. And we started at my sister-in-law's house, we had a box sent there. And then the road trip, we made like 10 stops to visit friends. And so we had the two old bottles of wine. And then each house we stopped at, we could like, one, have a gift when you show up at someone's house. And two, it was dry farm wine. So then it's like, okay, good, I can drink wine that I know I'm not gonna be hung over the next day.

Melanie Avalon

This is so brilliant. Oh my goodness.  Okay, if you're ever in Atlanta, I would love to we have to like go out and Over wine and like discuss all this. This is amazing Have you ever thought about collaborating with them with your meals with your meal prep? That would be cool

Allison Schaaf

That would be smart because you were asking about wine pairings. We actually, I don't know that we have done that. We do use wine in the cooking and then, you know, people don't use it. You can always just like some chicken stock, but yeah, we definitely use wine to deglaze our pans.  So the other gal that helps with recipes, she's Mediterranean diet is kind of was her forte before she came on board. So she likes to, and she's in California. So yeah, we use wine in the recipes, but yeah, wine pairings, I might have to reach out.  We are, I do, I'm also an affiliate for them. So it's definitely something I talk about as well.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I would love wine pairings, I think would be so cool. And then you could like refer people to them as well, like through the recipes. That's a great idea, thanks.  I love like going into brainstorming mode. Okay, love that so much. Another topic that I'm personally passionate about in addition to the wine, which is optimizing my space and I'm always trying to like declutter my living space and everything. So when it comes to the kitchen and it comes to like kitchen appliances and like duplicates of things and tools, how do you best approach the kitchen to optimize having everything you need? Maybe what are your favorite appliances and tools? And also like, what can we get rid of? Like what do we not need in the kitchen? You can probably get rid of them.

Allison Schaaf

lot. I love going doing all this stuff. And yeah, we did a renovation of years back. So that was really fun for me.  And then, yeah, I'm constantly like, same way, like what can I pare down? One thing I did a few years ago in the kitchen is I got really strict, I went through like every door and I'm like, I am only doing stainless steel, I'm getting rid of all plastic, because when I try not to use plastic, and then to I'm strict about not using plastic in the dishwasher. So I got I kind of like anything, anything that I could, I was like, okay, stainless steel, I mean, spatulas, I sold spatulas that are silicone. And yeah, I really just try and like constantly like pare down and not just that, but then like by really high quality. So I think the key is like higher quality and like less. So for example, like a few really good knives are important. And that's where you need to splurge. But then the crappy ones you can just like get rid of. And then, you know, kind of play around with it, too. You know, kind of same thing like I do with my closet, like, you know, set them aside, you know, maybe leave two or three spatulas set aside, if you have more, set those aside. And then if you don't use it in a month or two, then okay, I can get rid of that. I don't like a lot of the single use gadgets, unless it's something that you really are like using all the time. You know, like, usually you don't need a lot of those weird like, oh, here's a thing to like slice hard boiled eggs, or here's like a weird strawberry slicer, I don't know, you just need a good chef's knife. You don't need all the things just to slice one thing. So yeah, good cutting board, good knife, you know, food processor and blender, like I think those things are helpful as well. But yeah, beyond that, I don't do a lot of the a lot of the one offs, you know, unless I really see a purpose. And also with prep dish, we try and be really intentional of like not using fancy gadgets that maybe not everyone has. So yeah, that's my approach is just really kind of higher quality and less and you know, less is more.

Melanie Avalon

Yeah, I was going to ask with the meal preps and everything, will they ever need anything that they wouldn't have in their kitchen with prepping tools?

Allison Schaaf

They really shouldn't. I mean, again, like a good knife is going to be helpful and especially like going bigger. A lot of times the mistake I see people use is they're a little intimidated maybe and they use like a small paring knife. A larger knife is going to be helpful. A larger cutting board, like a larger sized cutting board and like either like a wooden ideally or even bamboo are fine too. Those are important.  Having a blender or food processor, you need to have at least one. I like to have both, but at least one of those will get you pretty far. But even things like instant pot and a slow cooker, if we have those things on the menu, there's a way to like sub and use something else. Just we don't want to overwhelm people. The other thing that is important is to have like some glass containers for when you're doing meal prep to like, you know, store things in. But yeah, other than that, we really do try and keep all of the extras.

Melanie Avalon

to a minimum. I love this conversation so much. And one of the, I think one of the things, like one of the biggest changes I made with my kitchen that the purpose was to, quote, declutter, but it actually makes me so happy. Beyond that, I read somewhere, and I realize it's probably different in different scenarios if you have a larger family and heirloom things. But I basically read to, like, use the nice china. It was saying, use the sentimental nice stuff, because why save it to use it once a year when you could just use it all the time and get more joy from it? And that's what I do. Because I have these different plates that have been given to me as gifts or, like I said, things from relatives. And I was like, oh, I could just use this as my everyday stuff. And it breaks while I got more joy out of it using it daily.  And it was so great. It helped me get rid of a lot of stuff. I get so much joy from using it. So yeah, that was one of my favorite packs. That's really smart. That's really smart. And then I also like buying, like you said, the high quality stuff. So I'm obsessed with, which I just realized it's pronounced La Crucet. I've been calling it La Crucet for so long, and I'm so embarrassed. But I love getting all my heavy duty cast iron and keeping all of that around.  Out of those four plans, is the fast one the most popular? Or what do people gravitate towards the most?

Allison Schaaf

super fast is the most popular one, yeah.  But you know, again, it depends on, you know, if someone, you know, the paleo one, if someone's grain free, like that's, you know, you want to do the paleo one, or if you're a local organism, part of it's just, you know, whichever one is going to work for you and what your dietary preferences are.

Melanie Avalon

one more little topic I wanted to ask you about which is it says in your bio that you live on a wait are you not on a farm but you have chickens goats cats and bees

Allison Schaaf

Yeah, I know. I'm like, I think it's kind of like a little mini farm. It's six acres, so it's not huge. But yeah, we have chickens and goats and bees and it's an adventure every day out here for sure. It's a lot of fun.  Do you eat the chickens or the goats? The short answer is yes. So with the chickens, mainly the eggs, my husband has processed a really mean rooster one year at Christmas. I think he also just wanted to see if he could do it. Not great eating. It was a lot of work, like a day or two of work for like a few bites. So we're not going into meat birds anytime soon.  The goats, yes, we will occasionally process them. We bring out a little processor and it's a very good eating and it's nice knowing what went into it. And I would like to milk them at some point, but we haven't gotten there yet. But at some point, I would like to have goat milk as well.

Melanie Avalon

Oh my goodness, you could even make gold.

Allison Schaaf

cheese. I know I have a neighbor and they had goats and she did that so she kind of inspired me like okay someday yeah and then the honey from the bees is really nice too it helps with the also when you know whenever there's like a cough or sore throat type of thing it's nice to have the the local honey.  Do you get the help?

Melanie Avalon

for hunting yourself from the beehive.

Allison Schaaf

I don't know if I would say myself, my husband. My husband's pretty involved with a lot of this stuff as well.  But the honey is, the honey harvesting as they call it, that's like twice a year and it's a lot of fun because the kids can get involved with the equipment and you kind of like spin it around and you have the, I can't even think of all the names, but there's the, I don't know, it's not the hive. Anyway, but they do the whole thing and they have a lot of fun with it. But he's the one that has the bee suit and goes out and like tends to them.

Melanie Avalon

That is so cool. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. Okay.  Well, this has been such a pleasure. It's so exciting to finally connect with you after all these years and years and years. And I just am obsessed with what you're doing. And you do have a special offer for our audience. So what, what is the deal with it? What can they get there?

Allison Schaaf

free trial so it's just 14 days to try it out you can have access to all the different plans you don't have to choose you can look at all of them poke around see what's there it's set up at prepdish.com Melanie Avalon and I just always encourage people to start there and if nothing else just kind of get some ideas of of how we do it and see if it might be a fit and yeah might as well try it for free

Melanie Avalon

Awesome. So again, this is amazing. It's literally free, like literally free. So friends, if you've been inspired by this, I know I have.  I mean, it's funny, I eat basically the exact same thing every night, like literally the same thing. So are a few key foods. So I'm not the best customer for this because I'm not creating recipes. But now I'm like, I got to go download this and do this myself. Listeners, go to prepdish.com slash Melanie Avalon, that will get you a two week free trial. Again, literally nothing to lose. You can try all these recipes, see what you think. Congrats again on the Instacart integration. That is amazing. And yeah, anything that you would like to share with our listeners before we go?

Allison Schaaf

Gosh, no, in my head, I'm like, man, wine pairing soon.

Melanie Avalon

I know, I feel like that's, yeah, I think that could be amazing.

Allison Schaaf

Oh, and then I'll give a quick plug though. I do have my own podcast at Meal Prep Monday, where we talk meal prep and, you know, food and nutrition, but I also kind of go off on tangents.  I probably, you know, do talk about wine or kids or travel and all the things. So that's there too.

Melanie Avalon

Awesome. Awesome.  Well, we will put a link to that in the show notes as well. And yay. Well, this has been so amazing, Alison. Thank you so much for what you do. I've been a fan of it for so, so long. I really think you're going to, you save or you, you just help so many people optimize their lives, their health, their wellness, all the things. So thank you so much. And we'll have to talk again in the future and let me know if you're ever in Atlanta.

Allison Schaaf

I will. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And it's so fun to finally connect. Likewise. Have a good rest of your day.

Melanie Avalon

day. You too. Bye.  Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.  If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Allison Schaaf

you

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