Episode 405 – Our Favorite IF Podcast Benefits, America’s Oldest Restaurant, Losing Water Weight Fast, Reducing Inflammation, Societal Pressures, Decision Fatigue, Enhancing Mood, Supporting Longevity, Toxic Skincare, And More!
Welcome to Episode 405 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
SHOW NOTES
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LINKS:
Melanie's Podcast: The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
Barry's Podcast: Banter with BC
More on Barry: barryconradofficial.com
Episode 283 with Brian Vaszily
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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie AvalonWelcome to episode 405 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of Avalon X and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo style meals, intermittent fasting and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer, songwriter, and creator and host of banter with BC. For more on us, check out Melanie Avalon.com and Barry Conrad official.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at I have podcast.com or by going to I have podcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 405 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with our still new co-host Barry Conrad.
Barry Conrad
Hey everyone, how's it going?
Melanie Avalon
How are you today?
Barry Conrad
I'm great, how are you?
Melanie Avalon
actually that's something I wanted to comment on this is a new experience for me with this show because like I'm saying how are you today because of the time difference between Australia and Atlanta I don't even know how many hours it is so like what time is it for you right now for me it's 9 26 p.m.
Barry Conrad
It's 1.26pm on Wednesday. Yeah, it's tomorrow. Isn't that crazy?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you live in the future. The future is pretty good. I live in the past.
Barry Conrad
It's okay here. It'll be good. It'll be fine. You'll like it.
Melanie Avalon
It's exciting, though, because as listeners know, I am a night owl. It's my vibe, my jam, and I get to record now at night this show. Historically, I've always recorded in the morning.
Barry Conrad
How does it make you feel?
Melanie Avalon
Feels awesome. Feels exciting. It's like a really nice new, because it's like, you know, we're welcoming this new era on the show. So it's like a nice fitting environmental experience that makes it feel even more like a new, exciting thing, adventure to be on, basically.
Barry Conrad
Can I ask, have you had your, what did you have for your meal or have you started having your meal yet? Have you started opening your window?
Melanie Avalon
Well, like we talked about last time, everybody check out last week's episode where we introduced Barry and heard all about his personal story and how he came to fasting and we got his opinion on all of the most common questions that we get on this show and then we did some rapid fire at the end as well. It was really fun. Oh, oh, and I even mentioned the main thing. We had our, we revisited the great one meal a day debate that I historically had with Jen Stevens on, let's see what, I need to fix this on our website because it doesn't give the year. So that was July 7th, but I don't know what year many years ago.
Barry Conrad
Was it 2019 or 2018?
Melanie Avalon
It was probably, if it was episode 116, and we launched and I think, I don't know, I can't do math. It was a while ago, it's probably 2019-ish or 18.
Barry Conrad
Because you know what, that would give context to ish when I started listening, do you know what I mean? Like the year.
Melanie Avalon
I could kind of figure this out quickly okay so there's 52 weeks in a year right so oh so that's two years into the show ish and we started in 20 when did we start did we start like 2015 or 16
Barry Conrad
I think you did.
Melanie Avalon
while. Okay. It's horrible that I don't even know. I think we started in 2016 or 15 around there. So it would have been earlier. It would have been at least like probably like 2017 or 2018 ish.
Barry Conrad
Mmm, wow.
Melanie Avalon
So you've been around for a while.
Barry Conrad
I've been around listening to this show for a while and now I'm the co-host of the show. I feel super excited about that.
Melanie Avalon
Here we are, crazy. Here we are again, me in the evening, you during the day. Oh, to answer your question, have I opened my eating window? So like I was mentioning in last week's episode, I have to do all work before I start my eating window. Because once I start my eating window, I'm in, well, research mode, that's when I read a lot of my books, but I'm not in like work mode. So I don't do emails, I don't do, I just focus on like eating and like nourishing and like feasting and then I go to bed.
Barry Conrad
Have I asked you before, do you like to watch stuff when you're like, you watch Netflix or watch a show while you're eating or not really? Is that your thing?
Melanie Avalon
No, I on purpose don't. I find it, I've thought about this a lot. I find it really interesting because I know what they say. They say when you eat, you should just eat, not multitask. I find that I can do passive consumption of things, although watching TV seems passive. Let me further clarify. I could read a book to prep for the biohacking podcast. And doing that doesn't feel like it's taking away energy from my eating and my digestion because I'm just reading and taking notes. I'm not creating new theories or thoughts or anything like that. It's not overly stimulating to me, is the point. While TV is passive consumption as well, it's very stimulating. And I find that I want to be when I'm eating in a parasympathetic state, so a rest and digest mode. And I don't want to do anything that's going to be very sympathetic, so something that's going to be making me really alert because all of those physiological processes are contrary to digestion. So I don't watch, I don't watch anything while eating.
Barry Conrad
Wow, you know what, I've actually never heard that put that way before and that's interesting because I, in the opposite way, not maybe opposite but different, I like to put something on in the background while I cook because I like to cook and then I'll sit down and depending on my mood, it could just be something kind of mindless. I won't like watch something that I'm trying to focus on while I'm eating, it's more just something fun just to kind of unwind, you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And that's while you're preparing the food or while you're actually eating as well? Both.
Barry Conrad
But it's not something well when i think about it or be you know focus more just are just here it's kinda like having a podcast on music on why you doing running around and stuff you know i mean that kind of vibe.
Melanie Avalon
Well, actually, yeah, I do I listen to podcasts as well, not while I'm eating, but while I'm because I like cook in batches. So I like eat a lot of scallops, and then I cook more scallops, and then I cook more scallops. So like in the end, while I'm cooking the next round, I listen to podcasts.
Barry Conrad
I can't wait to come over for dinner so you can need to try these scallops and see how you prepare them and season them and stuff.
Melanie Avalon
Do you want to come?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll be I'll bring the wine. Welcome Friday. Yeah, I'll come Friday. I'll bring wine. I'll bring some trinkets. You'll have the scallops. You'll have cucumbers be great.
Melanie Avalon
All the things. Yes, okay, so that, I don't even know where I was going with all of that. Here we are, episode number two. So yeah, so how are you? What is happening in your life?
Barry Conrad
I'm doing really great. I actually have a photoshoot tomorrow morning. I was going to ask you if it was you. If you had a photoshoot tomorrow, just say you were 1 p.m. your time right now, for example. Would you eat in a different way or any kinds of food that you'd prioritize over others to make you like look as leaner kind of thing or have less bloat? I mean, what are your thoughts on that? I have my own thoughts, but I'd love to hear what you would do, dietary wise, like a hack. Thank you for watching.
Melanie Avalon
You know? This is a great question. First of all, congrats on the photo shoot. You do a lot of photo shoots. How many, how often do you do photo shoots?
Barry Conrad
I do shoots quite often. I haven't done one like this in a while, but you know, it's like a promo shoot. So we're going to be out in the Aussie sun. It's going to be amazing. It's in the morning first thing while the sun rises, but I'm on camera a lot. And often I like, I know what I need to do to manipulate, I guess, to, to look a certain way for, to be camera ready, but that, that takes discipline. But I want to know what you would recommend. I mean, just for me, maybe you can give me some new tips that I don't already know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. I'm so excited about this question. One comment beforehand. Something else that I always forget. I forget that you are at the opposite, like you're the opposite season. Is it summer for you right now?
Barry Conrad
It's so hot right now.
Melanie Avalon
This is blowing my mind. It's winter here. And it got really cold this week, finally. It's like in the 20s, which I don't know what that is in Celsius. But.
Barry Conrad
Select minus 10. Yeah. But you love that, you love the cold.
Melanie Avalon
I do. I'm so happy. It was like warm, warm, warm. And then it got cold and I'm all about it. It's incredible. It's literally like, yeah, twenties for the next, which twenties is low for yeah, twenties is low actually anywhere in the US. So well, not anywhere, but most places.
Barry Conrad
Mel I actually also have to do this thing tonight where I need to be doing it's on camera where I have to pretend I'm in winter on a lake and be rugged up quote unquote rugged up so
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, you have to do that today.
Barry Conrad
And there's no AC because either you can't fly the AC during filming. So I have to.
Melanie Avalon
I'm so stressed, I'm so stressed, that sounds horrible, that sounds horrible.
Barry Conrad
You'd love that, right?
Melanie Avalon
And like, Australian, how hot is it there? Like, what is it? Do you know in Fahrenheit what it is? I don't speak Australian.
Barry Conrad
It is right now, Fahrenheit 74. Well, it's not too bad today, but the humidity is like 71% today.
Melanie Avalon
and you're going to be in a winter scene.
Barry Conrad
All rogged up in like a jacket on a lake kind of vibe so i have to let pretend it's really cold i kinda vibes.
Melanie Avalon
So yes, to answer your question, well, first of all, I think one of the biggest epiphanies I had in my life ever in my relationship with food was, because for the longest time, and we'll, I'll actually talk about this a little bit more when we talk about the meat of today's topic, but I was always looking at food as a way to like lose weight or not, or gain weight. Like that was basically what it meant to me. Like, well, it meant energy and it meant, do you gain weight or lose weight? It was so crazy to realize that the foods I was eating would have an effect on my inflammation levels. And I noticed that a little bit when I started changing the, like what I was eating when I went low carb, but when I first started doing fasting, that's when I went into this fasted state every day without food and the anti-inflammatory potential of it was so incredible. And it's something that it's hard to understand unless you've done it, but then you really start realizing, Oh, when I eat this food, it has this effect on me, like inflammation and things like that, and like swelling and water retention. So I, in general now, like in general, what I eat is very anti-inflammatory for me. And I think that's where it starts is you have to find out which foods are inflammatory or not for your body. And, you know, really the way to do that is with fasting and then, you know, some people will do like elimination diets and they'll eat certain foods and they'll like reintroduce foods and find what works for them. So the point of that is that what I eat in general, I feel like with what I eat in general, I could have a photo shoot the next day and I would feel good with my choices and how it manifests in my body. That said, there are certain things you can do that might even enhance that even more. So, you know, if you are, I mean, it depends what you're eating normally. Some people, if they're, you know, eating carbs normally, they might do like a low carb night and then they'll probably lose a lot of like water retention from that. So that's something that they can do. I mean, I would not eat or going like with the salt, the sodium. So like question, when you eat normally, do you eat, how much processed foods do you eat versus real foods?
Barry Conrad
Okay, great question. On the daily, most of the week, I'm keeping it pretty basic and pretty clean. By clean, I mean no ultra-processed foods. That's very rare that I'll have that. If I'm at an event or whatnot, I may indulge in what's there, but that's very rare that I'll do that. So maybe one occasion a week, one day a week, I'll have my trinkets, my chips, and my chocolate and stuff, and I won't regret it at all. But that's only because of my goals and my job. And having to stay in a certain condition because I know my body. Some people can have that stuff and look amazing. For me, I do that and I just know I'll hold more water the next day. And that's just, it is what it is. So I won't have that today, obviously, before I shoot. But normally, what I'll do is I'll just cut carbs is the fastest way for me to do it the day before.
Melanie Avalon
to that point, the nice thing about cutting the carbs is that I feel like it can have a really pretty quick turnaround effect compared to, I found for me, because there's been times where I have experimented with certain foods that had a higher sodium content, like I went through a phase where I was like, oh, I really like having, I was trying to experiment with like low fat cheese, a fat free cheese, and it was like had a lot of sodium in it.
Barry Conrad
Does that sound good? Does it taste good?
Melanie Avalon
I was craving cheese and I tend to, I like to do either high carb, low fat or low carb, higher fat. So I wanted to try it still in my low fat approach to eating. So I was like, I'm just going to try this. And I found like the version that had like the most minimal added ingredients and everything like that, but it had a lot of sodium added to it. And what was interesting for me was I find for me, it takes a couple days to like your aldosterone levels to adjust and your kidneys to excrete sodium. So like if I'm on a certain like a, if I'm having more salt intake in my diet, I don't think, I don't know how much of an effect it would have just one night cutting it out. I mean, I mean, sure it has an effect, but I think it takes a little bit longer compared to like that carb, like going low carb than I before I think can have a really big effect or like something I've done in the past is like just to have for me, like meat is very anti-inflammatory for me. So if I eat, like if I do a carnivore night, like just meat the next day that will have a profound effect for me.
Barry Conrad
That's so interesting because I actually don't know if there's one animal protein source that's less inflammatory than another. I just categorize. If I'm having protein and cutting carbs the night before, I'm usually pretty good. But if there's a way for me to more specifically know that, then I can always aim for that rather than guessing. You know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And so, and that's for like your specific response. And so if listeners are interested, they can go to Melanie Avalon.com slash Victus 88. That's B I C T U S eight eight. And you can get $55 off with the code Melanie Avalon. And what's amazing is when you take the test and then you get this, like I said, this overwhelmingly comprehensive review of they have so many foods on the list and a lot of different meat and seafood options, then they provide different options of elimination diets to temporarily try because these markers can actually change. So like your immune system can change and you can, you know, if you, if you cut out inflammatory foods that you didn't realize you were eating, you can really heal your gut from that and lose some of these responses to foods. So that's one option. But two, I do think that said, I do think there are certain types of meat and seafood that are more or less inflammatory fish because of the omega three content has an anti-inflammatory profile that's well has an anti-inflammatory amino acid profile. And then on top of that, it has this omega three content that is really good for inflammation levels with the exception of you want to be eating low mercury fish. Oh, that's a question for you, Barry. So because we're foodies here, do you eat, so when you eat fish, do you take into account mercury content?
Barry Conrad
If I'm going to give the honest answer, no, so I should. So tell me, which fish?
Melanie Avalon
So historically, once I became aware about this, I would choose low mercury fish, but I didn't think it was that big of a deal if I occasionally ate higher mercury fish. A, I got mercury toxicity, which was not good. B, I went through and looked through all the data of mercury levels in fish, and I didn't realize this is what made it so mind-blowing to me. You could, in theory, if you compare a piece of tilapia with the lowest mercury content possible in that tilapia, and I realize this is too extreme, but it's just to create a point. If you were to compare on a dinner plate a piece of tilapia with a low mercury content compared to a piece of swordfish, for example, the swordfish can have 300 times the amount of mercury as the piece of tilapia, which is mind-blowing. You would think, oh, I can just have a bite, it's not that bad. It can be that bad, especially if you, because I had mercury toxicity, and I didn't have mercury fillings, I didn't have any other exposure, I was just eating a lot of fish.
Barry Conrad
So I eat a lot of smoked salmon, what is it? How is that and your.
Melanie Avalon
So salmon is, yeah. So basically, the lowest mercury options are salmon is low mercury, farm salmon actually tends to be lower in mercury than wild salmon. So I actually tend to choose responsibly farmed farm salmon over wild salmon. That's just because of the mercury in my, my personal, you know, history. But in salmon in general is usually okay. Shellfish, so shrimp, scallops, those are very low, tilapia tends to be low, like trout tends to be low. But then after that, a lot of the fit, like tuna is all over the place. Like it can be low or it can be like pretty high. Really? Yeah. And it's hard to know.
Barry Conrad
That's good for me, though, because I have a lot of smoked salmon, so I'm fine there. And I do eat prawns, which you call shrimp, same same. So I have a lot of prawns as well. So those two I have mainly tuna I have sometimes, but not a whole lot.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so just because tuna, there's so many different options, I just err on the side of not. But going back to the inflammatory profile, so the omega-3, omega-6 ratio of fish is just really wonderful. So I would eat fish, I would eat, yeah, I would eat fish. For me personally, I would either do the low carb approach or if I want to do still like a carb approach the night before, I would make it like as minimal fat as possible because I find that I process the food better. And just for me, again, this is just me personally, that has like a pretty anti-inflammatory effect on me. But it's all very personal. People just need to like experiment with what works for them. Like have you intuitively found certain foods make you feel a certain way with inflammation and water retention and all the things?
Barry Conrad
When I have chicken breast, like prepared super boring and plain, just chicken breast, I'll air fry it or bake it. Amazing for me the next day. Like I drop all this water and it's super lean just like that. It's quite dramatic. When I have ground beef with... The trick about beef in general is you got to season it because it loses a lot of that salt when you cook it. So, I guess based on what you're...
Melanie Avalon
You gotta season it!
Barry Conrad
You don't, okay, you don't got to, but you know.
Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no, no, I hear you.
Barry Conrad
You know what I mean? So unless I just had a pretty plane, I could do that. But that's pretty good for me as well. I find, but if I'm going to have some bread, give me two slices of bread, even like it just, I blow up. I don't know why I just, yeah. So I do know what works for me. What about alcohol the day before? And if so, are there certain types of alcohol that would blow you the day before and how much? Very specific.
Melanie Avalon
So again, it depends a lot on how you process alcohol. It depends a lot on the context of the drink. Most, I mean, I talk about this all the time, but I think most people lump alcohol all into one category and they don't take into account the fact that a lot of drinks, well, A, like mixed drinks, you're having them with like sugar and flavors and all these things. And then with wine, conventional wine often has all of these additives that you don't even realize because the label doesn't say anything. So it can have, there's like over 70 additives approved for addition to wine, especially in the U.S. So I always drink dry farm wines, which listeners know about. And that's, you know, it's organic, low alcohol, low sugar. And I drink that every night. And it does not, for me, does not create any inflammation. And if anything, it probably helps with like water retention. I don't change anything with my wine drinking habits for things like that. And for listeners, they can go to dryfarmwines.com slash I have podcast and get a bottle for a penny. If you have not consciously ongoing how to healthy, taken a consciously healthy approach to your drinking habits, I definitely would not like drink the night before. If you're not like, like for me, it's like just part of my evening every night, like a glass or two of dry farm wines. So I'm not like changing anything compared to like, if you're not doing that normally, I would not, you know, have a lot of the night before. Oh, and one more thing. So you were talking about the bread making you blowed up. I have found for me. So there's a difference between the different types of carbs. So fructose versus sucrose versus glucose and glucose preferentially fills muscles versus fructose, which is like processed by the liver. If I were to eat starches, I, this is just me personally, but it sounds like you might have the same experience as well. If I eat starches, that makes me like blow up like a balloon compared to like fruit that doesn't have that effect on me. So I think you need to know like you were having carbs, what type of effect of effect they have on you.
Barry Conrad
Although I have actually shared with Melanie before listeners that I will often have like a whole cup of white rice boiled, which is a lot of rice after it's boiled and that's worked for me. It's it's a lot, but it's actually not that many carbs. Surprisingly, if you looked it up, there's not a lot of carbs in one cup of rice boiled. It's not fried or anything like that. So that has worked for me, but people might go rice, you're probably going to gain weight, doesn't do that for me. So that's one thing that I can have, carb wise and definitely vegetables and whatnot.
Melanie Avalon
What's really interesting is I as well have had so if I were to have a starchy carb, I can have white rice. I think because it's I think it's a few things. One, it's like basically fat free. So you're not getting all of this other stuff with it. B, it's very benign and its potential for anti nutrients and things like that. It's basically just like almost pure glucose. So I've experimented with rice before and I've had that effect as well. So that's interesting. But if I were to eat like a potato, not good.
Barry Conrad
So basically I can't cook my special sorted potatoes at your place with the scallops can't do that you can.
Melanie Avalon
For you
Barry Conrad
And you can live vicariously through my joy of consuming it, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. But honestly, just to bring it back to the fasting and everything, there's this magic power, I think, to doing a fasting window every day, and then, you know, having your your food in a certain time, like in a certain eating window. It's so great because like in the past, I remember before I was doing intermittent fasting, like I felt like if I had some because I was, you know, pursuing acting and things like that as well and on camera stuff. And so I felt like if I had an on camera thing coming up, I had to like really for days, like change my eating habits and do things. Compared to now, I'm just living an anti inflammatory diet with intermittent fasting and my food choices, which is really great. That's awesome.
Barry Conrad
And now going back to you, you've asked me what I'm up to and I just went on this whole tangent. What have you been up to, Melanie? How's your week been?
Melanie Avalon
I'm good. There's a lot, there's a lot of like, a lot of really fun potential projects, well not potential layer projects, there's a lot of really fun projects in the works that I'm really excited about and seeing that this airs mid-January, I think there's a lot coming this quarter project-wise and I'm curious what will come out first because there's like three big things I'm working, uh, four big things I'm working on. So we shall see, but I have the creative spark and it kind of relates to when we actually talk about our main topic, one of the things. Before that, so here we are half an hour in, which is a good problem to have. We've decided we want to have on this show a new tradition, which is because we so want to communicate how much we love food and how intermittent fasting is so incredible because you do your fast and then you get to have your incredible meal and it's all amazing and we just love all of it. So we thought we could just really quickly, every episode, we're going to both find independently a restaurant that we, that's like cool. So there's going to be like something cool about the restaurant. Like there's a reason we're picking this restaurant and then we're going to say what we would pick from the menu. So shall we do this?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. You want to go. You want to go first jump on in.
Melanie Avalon
Sure. Okay. So I picked the 76 house. It is located in Tappan, New York. And they claim to be the oldest restaurant in the US. And I like kind of looked into that further because other people made that claim. So they're not the oldest continuously operating restaurant. They have had like moments where they were not in operation. So like there's other restaurants who are like, Oh, this is the continuously longest operating restaurant. But they're the oldest like established restaurant. And they were a tavern originally as early as 1668 is when they were founded. And they were like a big deal during the American Revolution. They served as a meeting place for local patriots. They were the like a prison detention site for Major John Andre, who was a British spy involved in Benedict Arnold's conspiracy to surrender West Point. And they've housed like so many presidents and all the things. So there's an operation today. You can go there now. So I thought yeah, I thought it was like a cool way to start off our restaurant thing. So their website is 76 house.com. I'm looking at the picture now looks like a vibe. There's like a lot of flags on the the outdoors. So looking at the menu, and we have to like come up with our our universal terminology, because in the US, we have an appetizer. But you call an appetizer an entree.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so like an entree or an appetizer.
Melanie Avalon
What about starter? Do you call it a starter ever?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, we do. So maybe we should do starter.
Melanie Avalon
like starter and then like, but you don't, Entrez is different for you, right? So.
Barry Conrad
We don't often say on trails like the main event.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so like a starter and then the main meal.
Barry Conrad
startup main meal and then like a dessert and then dessert
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. Starter, main meal, dessert. So Barry Conrad, looking at the menu of the 76 house, what would be your starter, your main meal, and your dessert?
Barry Conrad
Are we looking at the lunch, the dinner, or which one would you like me to?
Melanie Avalon
I'm looking at dinner.
Barry Conrad
Okay, this is exciting by the way listeners we decided to do this and yet to celebrate our love of food and I'm actually getting excited looking at this menu, I'm so hungry.
Melanie Avalon
We came up with this like on a call one night. We're like, we have to do this. So here we are doing it.
Barry Conrad
All right, for my starter, definitely the main muscles, because I love muscles, like a muscle part, muscle situation was good for me. I've never had muscles.
Melanie Avalon
What do they taste like? I saw that on the menu and I was like maybe I should get that because I don't know what those would taste like.
Barry Conrad
You eat scallops, you'll love mussels. Are they sweet like scallops? They're often prepared in like a butter, like a sort of like a butter garlic, a wine based sauce. That's really, it's delicious. They're fresh. They're really easy to eat. I think they're very similar to scallops. You like them. You love them actually.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Well, that's the other thing. I, when I get stuff repaired at restaurants, I'm not crazy, but I get everything like very plain, but I get everything on the side so other people can, you know, enjoy it.
Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, I have to order two starters because guess what we talked about this before I've never had a shrimp cocktail ever.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, no, because you, because you like convinced yourself to like shrimp.
Barry Conrad
I like shrimp, but I never had a shrimp cocktail.
Melanie Avalon
You have not had a shrimp cocktail?
Barry Conrad
Not in life, never.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, we got to change. We got to go there. We got to go here. Can we go?
Barry Conrad
We can go. Okay. Those are my two starters. What are your, what's your starter or starters?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I would have, oh, we can just pretend like we're at the restaurant together because I would have gotten the shrimp cocktail as well. So we can get that. And then I, well, it's funny because I have never had muscles. So it looks like we're getting the same thing. So we can just get that.
Barry Conrad
You're going to love that.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome, okay.
Barry Conrad
Oh, Black Angus, New York, so long, baby, that's me doing that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, how are you getting it prepared?
Barry Conrad
medium rare i know you like rare you're more like on the right side right.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm like a blue. Blue? Yeah. They use that word in Australia.
Barry Conrad
Just just basically raw. Just put it on the pan for like 10 seconds. Basically.
Melanie Avalon
I would get, so I like to get two entrees, I would get the trout and then I like to get like a fish, like something light and then something else. So I think I would get the venison medallions because you don't often see venison on menus.
Barry Conrad
You actually don't, you're right.
Melanie Avalon
So it's wild American access red deer. And then dessert. Do they have a dessert menu? They might not.
Barry Conrad
Maybe they don't. There's a cell of them. Maybe we'll go for the cell.
Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, after dinner, after dinner delights, they do. Okay, they do. I think when I answer this question, I'll answer it as if I were eating dessert, what would I get? But normally for dessert, I get another appetizer. So I probably get like another shrimp cocktail.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I would get other shrimp cocktail, but like if I could eat any of this and not feel really bad the next day.
Barry Conrad
They all look pretty good, and it's hard to choose for me.
Melanie Avalon
What is salted caramel boudino? What is boudino? Do you know? I don't know what boudino is. Oh, I think I know what I want. I want the Choco peanut butter pie, which is an individual pie with chocolate crust, decadent peanut butter filling and tempered chocolate. That sounds good.
Barry Conrad
That sounds pretty good. And by the way, Boudinha is like a Italian pantry dessert. It's like you eat it out of a cup Italian sweet sort of situation.
Melanie Avalon
what would you get for your dessert?
Barry Conrad
Okay. I'm going to go for two here. You in for two for the main situation. I have to do the, because of the restaurant where it is, New York cheesecake, because I want to see how they throw down and prepare. And then I'm going to go for the creme brulee. I love creme brulee.
Melanie Avalon
I like creme brulee. It's like very like and it's very like vanilla focus like classic clean. Yeah, call out to last week's episode Okay, so friends check out the 76 house if you've been let us know now today's topic Is we decided to before we start answering listener questions, which listeners send your questions to? Questions at if podcast.com or you can go to if podcast.com and you can submit questions there Before that today what we're gonna do is we came up with our individual top five intermittent fasting Benefits that we most adore and love in order. So we're gonna go back and forth and see what our lists are and Yeah, it's gonna be a thing Barry what is your favorite intermittent fasting?
Barry Conrad
The very top one is energy and focus because the deeper I get into the faster state, the sharper and more unstoppable and driven I feel for the day.
Melanie Avalon
It's so true. It's so interesting because it's something that you experienced that you didn't realize you could experience until you experience it. And then it's so addictive, at least for me. It's like, ah.
Barry Conrad
It's like having coffee, black coffee without having it. You really do feel this. It's intense. It's like a razor sharp focus. I love it. I love it too. Okay, you. Your turn.
Melanie Avalon
My number one is for the longest time before doing intermittent fasting, I was so fixated on food, not in a good way. It was always like dieting mindset and then be literally not like, not so present that I, it was like at the front of my mind, but it was always like on the back burner, like, when am I going to eat next? And then, you know, I was always like, like thinking about during the day, when could I stop what I was doing and eat? And then once you eat, it was kind of like this sadness because it was like, oh, like I got to stop, like, and then I have to like stop again. It was like just a roller coaster of cravings and wanting to eat. And then once you eat, like knowing you need to stop because you're like trying to control how much you're eating, that's like gone. It's just gone. I don't even think about food during the day unless we're like talking right now. And well, it's like nighttime. But then when I do eat, I get, I never ever have to think about stopping myself. Like I'm not like going, it's not like a, like a binge type situation, but I just get to like feast and eat the food and it's nourishing. And then when I wake up, I'm not hungry. I do my day. Like it's just, it's freedom from something that was very nagging for a long time that was not pleasant. And it's, I'm so happy that that's gone.
Barry Conrad
That's a great one. Similar to your first one, my second one is just fewer decisions, like no decision fatigue where you're thinking all day, what am I going to eat for breakfast? What am I going to eat for lunch? What am I going to have for a snack? What am I going to have for just one meal a day for me? I just get to do my day, as you were saying, get everything done, and then when I do sit down, I can enjoy it. I can feast. So decision fatigue wiped out for me.
Melanie Avalon
I love that. And what people might not realize is that decisions are very taxing on willpower. So the more decisions you make, the less you or the more you pull from your willpower bucket in any given day. So that's why like in the beginning of the day, you can have all the willpower in the world and like make good decisions. But by the end, it's like just whatever and those little decisions add up. And they've done studies and they found that people have to make around 200 food-related decisions daily, often without even realizing it. Yeah. So it's like choices about what you're eating, when are you eating, where are you eating, how much are you eating, and then also like grocery, meal preparation, snacking. And a lot of these are actually subconscious. So we don't, again, we don't really realize that we're making them, but that's like 200 decisions that are like just draining your willpower.
Barry Conrad
That's 200 more decisions I could use for things that are actually important, you know, exactly.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, so it's so freeing. Yeah, I love that.
Barry Conrad
What's your second?
Melanie Avalon
My second one is actually kind of similar to yours. So mine is the time that you get back. And it relates to that because, well, first of all, like stopping your productivity flow and your life and everything to eat constantly or to snack constantly takes away a lot of time. And then all the decisions about like what to eat, when to eat, where to eat, should I keep working? Should I not? Like it just, it's a lot of time. And we know that like interrupting your flow, it takes a long time to get back to that flow. And so when food is not even just an option during your fasting window. And again, I need to like clarify because I do a eating window at night. So some people are eating earlier, so it's gonna manifest differently. But regardless, either way, when you're in your fasting window, you're not making those decisions, you're not stopping what you're doing to eat. So the amount of time I get back is just incredible.
Barry Conrad
for me. Isn't it crazy that so far all of our benefits, it's just related to that window of just giving you some time to rest. It just frees up all this other time, gives you so much more energy. I'm loving where this is going. This is exciting.
Melanie Avalon
Same page. So what's your number three?
Barry Conrad
I used to eat six meals a day. I did that whole thing, six meals a day, and guess what came with that? Constant crashes. Energy slumps, so no more energy crashes for me, no sugar crashes for me, because there's not grazing all day throughout the day. Six meals a day with snacks? That's a lot of up, down, up, down, up, down in the name of, bro, you need to get enough meals to build muscle. Wrong. So, there you go.
Melanie Avalon
It's so true. It's crazy to think, like when I was eating constantly throughout the day, that energy crash situation where you're, quote, hangry and you're, you know, almost like upset and you're like, you have to have food and you can't focus and you're like not emotionally like a good person to be around. And that's just, that's just gone. I just don't have that anymore.
Barry Conrad
And then you then you need like another, oh, I need a snack because I feel sluggish. So it's just like a cycle, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So being off the roller coaster and the science behind it, like in a sentence is that when you actually go into the fastest state, you're tapping into your body fat stores, your body like basically decides that like it's okay to run off of this other fuel source, like not your carbs, not your last meal, but actually body fat. And once you're releasing body fat, your insulin levels are low. Your body stores so much energy, like even like a normal person could walk, it's like a shocking amount of miles just on their body fat. So like you have a lot of energy in you. It's just locked up so often because when we eat, we release insulin and insulin stops that fat from being released. So when you're in the fastest state, you're tapping into that body fat and now you have endless energy, but you can just keep going.
Barry Conrad
It's like that Jason Fong, have you heard that analogy that he talks about, about the freezer and the fridge? Yeah, yeah. Same thing, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so like if you're constantly just fueling yourself from your refrigerator and never actually going into the freezer, fasting is like going into that deep freezer.
Barry Conrad
It's so good, just the energy on tap and people panic. It's like, oh no, if I don't eat, it's like an emergency. It's not an emergency if you don't eat, you know?
Melanie Avalon
And it gets easy, like once your body, your body has to make metabolic adaptations to want to willingly do that, and that's like anthropomorphizing it, but to like, actually, you know, easily do those processes. But once you, the more you build that fasting muscle, the easier it gets. My, my third one is actually pretty similar mine. It's the mood kind of similar to that roller coaster ride of the cravings and everything. I used to, my mood used to fluctuate a lot based on my food situation. So was I hungry and then eating foods? How did it make me feel? Like mood fluctuations were just normal. And when I started fasting, my mood's like pretty, like pretty stable. Like I feel pretty good. Like it just feels good. I feel good. I feel like my mood changes now are just based on around life events. They're not around this foundational food thing that was an issue for a while. That's awesome.
Barry Conrad
I feel the same way. I get that.
Melanie Avalon
I think we're both probably glass half full type of people in general though.
Barry Conrad
I think so. I think we are. We're pretty positive. We like to see the best outcome, but, you know, look at things from the best point of view. Do you think?
Melanie Avalon
I think so, yeah.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, my fourth one would would be I can actually listen to my my hunger singles, you know, I can actually pay attention to when I'm full, when I'm actually hungry or when I'm bored. There's a difference between being bored and like, it's two o'clock. I should probably eat or it's 10 a.m. I should probably eat because people around me in this cafe eating, you know, or maybe I should just keep eating because it's here. That's another thing. The chips are here. Someone will eat it. So paying attention to satiety, your hunger, hunger signals and being more intuitive that way. I think fasting and giving your gut a chance to actually rest, you actually know what you're hungry for, what your body craves more when you're actually satisfied when you can stop.
Melanie Avalon
I love that so much. I'm having flashbacks too. Like it's mind blowing to me that I existed at a place at one point in my life. And this is just normal. Like I feel like this is the way most people are. Like somebody will, if you're not fasting and you're just doing like a normal eating pattern, somebody could come up to you and they'll be like, do you want to get lunch? Or do you want to, you know, do you want to go get a bite? And your answer could be like, well, like I could eat like, like the fact, you know, like that's what I used to be like, like, well, yeah, I could like today. I'm like, no, like when I eat, I'm like ready to eat. Like I'm hungry, but I don't have like cravings before that. So every time I'm eating, it feels, my body feels so intuitive with what is good for it. Because I found that when you do the fasting, you crave at that quote, crave, but your body desires at that moment what it needs. Like I found that personally. I don't know. I don't know if you've experienced that, but like I will, you know, like I'll crave like a certain type of protein or like it's just, it's very like intuitive.
Barry Conrad
And it might sound boo-boo, but Melanie's exactly right. Like off, I was going to say the same thing. I'd be going in my fast throughout the day. And then it's like, today I need some chicken today. Or today I need some red meat today. You, you feel it, what your body is actually, what it needs rather than, Oh, I could, I could do that. I guess, yeah, why not? It's not a why not. It's like you actually can hear and feel that.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Exactly. Oh my goodness. I love it. I love that we don't. I was like, are we going to have the exact same list? But this is like so interesting because it's like all similar world, but so far it's like different things. So my fourth one was body composition and maintenance. So doing intermittent fasting. Well, doing low carb was the first time I started actually felt like I was seeing the changes I wanted to see in my body. But then implementing intermittent fasting was the first time that I, it became seemingly quote effortless in comparison to what I've been doing before with like dieting and all the craziness to get to a weight that I loved a muscle composition that I loved. And then it's so amazing that intermittent fasting is amazing for maintenance. So like you can reach this body point that your body's happy at and keep continuing on and you don't have to, you don't have to like with dieting, it's like, oh, am I, am I just going to diet for the rest of my life? Like I feel ravenous and hungry and all the things, but this like maintains a body composition really well, including muscle. If you're eating a lot of protein.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I love that. And you actually copying my fifth because that's my fifth one.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, is that your fifth?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so we have one that's the same. If I look back 10 years, compared to now, like, my body's changed so much, my face has changed so much, and I can only put that down again to intermittent fasting, because a lot of people would say, as you age, you should gain weight. You should get fatter or more frumpy or whatever. Intimidant fasting definitely does not agree with that sentiment at all. Like, it definitely proves that's not the case. You don't have to do that. You don't have to gain weight. And just like Melanie said as well, is you reach this point where you kind of settle, like, this is sort of like where you hover and you don't really change that much. Yeah, if you intentionally do for whatever reason, like, if I'm training for something or whatnot, but I'm generally in the same spot, I don't really change that much, but the composition just keeps improving. And the only thing, again, that's really significantly in change is the intermittent fasting.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Like before intermittent fasting, when I was doing all these different diets, I had this massive fear about, you know, even if I get to what I want to be at, then I have to like stress about maintaining it 24 seven. And like you just said, and I said, it's, it just maintains, you know, like it just like it just does. And if it doesn't, because we do get questions about people experiencing sudden weight gain that they weren't experiencing or hitting plateaus, you can troubleshoot that. So intermittent fasting, you're just affecting the time that you're eating. So there's all these other things you can play with. If you need to further tweak or fine tune or address a plateau or any issues you might be having, then you can actually look at like your food choices, which I would encourage doing anyways. But the exciting thing is like, it's not even like intermittent fasting is like everything. There's still things beyond that that you can play with in your eating window. So
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And one thing that we want to make clear as well, it's not a quick fix, it's not a magic pill that you take. It's definitely a tool, but you still, it's not about just eating everything you want because I don't think that would be effective. So you still need to tweak what's right for your body, what you actually need, what's inflammatory, what's non-inflammatory, you know what I mean? So yeah, tweaking the diet within that window.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Okay. My fifth one are the longevity benefits. So, you know, my other show is the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. I'm very much haunted by the concept of longevity. A lot of what I do is based on what will encourage longevity and healthy aging. And so the benefits of intermittent fasting and people will debate, maybe we can talk about this in the future episode, people debate calorie restriction versus intermittent fasting. Are the benefits of intermittent fasting just due to calorie restriction? But regardless, we do know that out of all the diets and things studied that calorie restriction is the one thing consistently shown in all species to increase lifespan. And now we're seeing more and more that intermittent fasting seems to have the same effects. And then again, the argument or the question is like, Oh, is it just due to calorie restriction? I don't think it is. But so yeah, the potential longevity benefits of intermittent fasting, I'm like all on board. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. So it's really beneficial metabolically. And we know that metabolic health is so important for lifespan, the effect on your blood sugar levels, fasting releases, promotes AMPK, which is a longevity promoting pathway in the body where you're going into like cellular cleanup, you're getting rid of dysfunctional cells with a process called autophagy. There's just a lot of epigenetic pathways that are activated with fasting that are great for longevity. So that one's kind of more like esoteric. But in theory, in theory,
Barry Conrad
Still though, you know, I'd rather do something to potentially live longer than not, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Actually, that's a question for you. Have I asked you this before, Barry? Have I asked? I don't know. I don't know if I've asked you this before. It's one of my favorite questions. Would you want to live forever?
Barry Conrad
No, I actually wouldn't.
Melanie Avalon
That's what most people say and this like blows my mind because I for the longest time I thought everybody was like me and then I was like, oh most people don't want to live forever. Do you want to live forever? Yeah, why life is amazing and there's so much I want to do. I just want to keep doing it
Barry Conrad
I'd like to live longer, like for sure, like if I could like have, but not forever, like maybe like a couple hundred years or something like that or like 150 years, but not like forever because I feel like there's beauty and value in like a finite journey and making the most of it and not just thinking, oh, I just have all the time just to, I don't know, there's something about that. And maybe because I also have a thing about deadlines and being like good under pressure, like I have, I like a challenge. If I feel like I have all the time, that's not necessarily helpful for me too. So maybe that's partly why.
Melanie Avalon
So that's a very salient point and it relates to my perspective on life because I think like the thing I'm haunted by is that there's so much I want to do and I feel like there's a ticking clock all the time and it's like it's like I just gotta like do everything. I think it's hard to know but I think if I knew I could live forever I still think I would pursue everything. I think I would like I think it's hard to know but I don't think I would lose any of that drive.
Barry Conrad
Okay, another thing, if you could live forever, would you want to live forever in the version that you are right now? Or do you mean like an older version of yourself or a younger version of yourself?
Melanie Avalon
That's a great question. And actually, so they've, they've done like polls and things. And when, when they ask that question about, do you want to live forever? Most people say they don't, which again was like mind blowing to me. Cause I thought everybody wants to live forever, but apparently not. But then if they change the question and they say, would you want to live forever with like a good health span? So like you're still young and vibrant and can do all the things, then a lot of more people want to live forever. So actually I, okay, you know what, if I was in a body that would not function to let me pursue my passions in life, like it couldn't do that. No, I would not, I would not want to live forever in a state where I couldn't pursue my, my life's passions. I would not want to know, but if I could be vibrant and healthy and all the things, then yeah, I think I would.
Barry Conrad
You're definitely able to pursue everything, which is an exciting and enticing thing, because you would you would you do everything because you have the time, right?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, yeah, I mean, I just think it would be, there's just so much I want to do. I'm like haunted by this ticking time clock. Really? Yeah. I have been since 13.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because nothing's guaranteed and you never know when your time's up as well. I mean, it's just a fact, I guess, right? And you just want to get everything done that you're passionate about. I understand that.
Melanie Avalon
And I'm like super haunted by aging.
Barry Conrad
Really? Yeah. What about it? Like looking old or just a process of aging and declining in your function?
Melanie Avalon
I think there's a lot of, like for a woman, there's a lot of, and this is me ascribing that worth to myself, accepting it from society, but there's a lot of like worth around beauty and youth. And I feel like for women, it's like when you lose that, you lose something really valuable for society to like appreciate you as a human being. Something I work on with my therapist all the time, but compared to like men who I, who also age obviously, but I feel like men as they age, they kind of get better with age. Oftentimes.
Barry Conrad
get better with age. I think it's ridiculous that that is described and that that's put on to women a lot of the time. I would also say we guys feel it as well in today's day and age, like social media. Honestly, Mel, it's the struggle is real. And I know so many guys who struggle with that. Like you would never expect like, ah, I want to try to look younger and and also nothing against cosmetic procedures or any I'm all for whatever makes you happy. But it's so much more talked about now and because people just want to look like what they're seeing online. And what is the ideal of being desirable or young or hot or fit or jacked or whatever it is,
Melanie Avalon
No and see and like like thank you for sharing that it's interesting because I'm so aware of this concept and that this is something like I shouldn't I don't think I should and I don't even like use the word shoulds but ideally I would not care about this it's a really hard thing like it's it's like a hard thing to to deal with and let go up. Interestingly just a quick shout out I interviewed this week but actually when this airs it should have aired so I interviewed on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast Brian Vasely he's the founder of Purity Woods they are a organic skincare line but in any case we talked I like I came up with a theory in real time while we were recording and it was a good moment because he was like this is what I think about like he agreed and it was that we both feel that and this is a whole tangent but women use so many self-care products every day that men don't use and they're conventional skincare products so they're high in like endocrine disruptors and toxins and so women are often putting on all these things on their skin that are actually aging them faster which is like the biggest irony of ironies because you know it's supposed to be anti-aging and there's this whole idea so we were talking about how like do women often look like 10 years older because I was saying that women have a longer lifespan than men so in theory you would think that they would age slower but people seem to think that women look older earlier than men and we're like is it the skincare makeup I don't know maybe
Barry Conrad
Interesting. That's super interesting. Check out that episode. Yeah, and a lot more to come in that realm. That's a teaser as well from me.
Melanie Avalon
I know I was thinking that while I was saying it, not before, but like while I was like, oh, this is a so.
Barry Conrad
But I've actually never melt I've never heard that put that way as well like that's that is the greatest irony like using all these potions and lotions and then it's actually aging you faster.
Melanie Avalon
Because in theory that, like I just said, women have longer lifespans than men, so that would insinuate that they're aging at a slower rate. So they should look younger at the identical age to a man, but I think most people would agree that women seem to show their age quicker than men. So how much of that is due to slathering our face in these products every day that are toxic?
Barry Conrad
Makeup as well, right? Not just skincare stuff.
Melanie Avalon
It's so often so toxic and it's so ironic like you just like highlighted that it's supposed to make you like you look younger but could be aging you in the long run.
Barry Conrad
It would be really interesting to do research in different parts of the world if populations look younger.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, where they don't wear makeup and stuff?
Barry Conrad
Exactly, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I that would be interesting. Yeah, cuz I was asking him I was like, what do you think that like hunter gatherer people like before we had all this like what do they look like, you know, like, did they look a lot younger, maybe I think
Barry Conrad
Also, did you see that thing on TikTok where they were demanding, why do like 30 year olds now look way older than 30 year olds before, like, do you know what I'm saying?
Melanie Avalon
No. Did they show like, like pictures, like comparison pictures?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, there was like a girl that came on a video saying, oh, you look great for like, I thought you were like 36 and she's like 22, just like how people are just looking older within the generation before at the same age. It's really wild to me.
Melanie Avalon
I think it's two main, I think it's three things. I think it's our diet, like our processed diet. I think it's our maybe stress levels, like with everything and our skincare and makeup and just environmental exposure to toxins in general. Like there's a lot that we're exposed to. We're like putting a lot on our bodies, in our bodies and in our minds. It's very like toxic and aging.
Barry Conrad
And without even realizing a lot of the time, a lot of it's just habitual.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so teaser. Fun fact though, Barry and I both appreciate skincare, which is so exciting.
Barry Conrad
We do yeah, you know, I'm all about it as well. There's nothing I like to take care of myself as well. And I think all guys do. There's nothing girly or wrong or weird about that. So I'm here for it. Thank you.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I could not agree more. And I think the third thing was the whole aging concept and that I was talking about how my experience as a female, that there's all this fixation on aging and women and stress and everything in society, but men experienced that as well. So thank you so much for drawing attention to that. I'm excited for this show. You know, it's exciting. So listeners, friends, thank you so much for being here with us. Please submit your questions and your feedback and all the things you can directly, as in we will read the emails, email us at questions at ifodcast.com. You can also go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. These show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 405. Those show notes will have a full transcript and links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And then you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is, I'm still learning. Barry is Barry, B-A-R-R-Y, underscore, Conrad. And also we have, I have podcasts, Instagram. So check that out. Yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
We hope that you loved this episode as much as we did, and we'll see you next time.
Melanie Avalon
I know, me too. I will talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
I'll talk to you next week.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!
