Episode 261: Weight Watchers, Calorie Counting, Feeling Cold During Fasting, Food Induced Thermogenesis, Arthritis Pain, Dental Health, Oral Microbiome, And More!

Intermittent Fasting


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Apr 17

Welcome to Episode 261 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

LMNT: For Fasting Or Low-Carb Diets Electrolytes Are Key For Relieving Hunger, Cramps, Headaches, Tiredness, And Dizziness. With No Sugar, Artificial Ingredients, Coloring, And Only 2 Grams Of Carbs Per Packet, Try LMNT For Complete And Total Hydration. For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!!

AVALONX SERRAPEPTASE: A Proteolytic Enzyme Which May Help Clear Sinuses And Brain Fog, Reduce Allergies, Support A Healthy Inflammatory State, Enhance Wound Healing, Break Down Fatty Deposits And Amyloid Plaque, Supercharge Your Fast, And More!  AvalonX Supplements Are Free Of Toxic Fillers And Common Allergens (Including Wheat, Rice, Gluten, Dairy, Shellfish, Nuts, Soy, Eggs, And Yeast), Tested To Be Free Of Heavy Metals And Mold, And Triple Tested For Purity And Potency. Order At AvalonX.us, And Get On The Email List To Stay Up To Date With All The Special Offers And News About Melanie's New Supplements At melanieavalon.com/avalonx!

JOOVV: Like Intermittent Fasting, Red Light Therapy Can Benefit The Body On So Many Levels! It Literally Works On The Mitochondrial Level To Help Your Cells Generate More Energy! Red Light Can Help You Burn Fat (Including Targeted Fat Burning And Stubborn Fat!), Contour Your Body, Reduce Fine Lines And Wrinkles, Produce Collagen For Epic Skin, Support Muscle Recovery, Reduce Joint Pain And Inflammation, Combat Fatigue, Help You Sleep Better, Improve Mood, And So Much More!! These Devices Are Literally LIFE CHANGING!! For A Limited Time Go To joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 


1:10 - LMNT: For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!! Learn All About Electrolytes In Episode 237 - Our Interview With Robb Wolf!

3:45 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #122 - R Blank

Go To shieldyourbody.com And Use The Code MelanieAvalon For 15% Off Site Wide!

17:50 - AVALONX: Order At AvalonX.Us, And Get On The Email List To Stay Up To Date With All The Special Offers And News About Melanie's New Supplements At melanieavalon.com/avalonx!

21:10 - Listener Q&A: Detra - Weight Watchers?

30:40 - Listener Q&A: Tyloria - Why do I get so cold during IF

Lower core body temperature and greater body fat are components of a human thrifty phenotype

Core body temperature, energy expenditure, and epinephrine during fasting, eucaloric feeding, and overfeeding in healthy adult men: evidence for a ceiling effect for human thermogenic response to diet 

Go to Melanieavalon.Com/Bristle to get, 15% Off with the code melanieavalon!

47:05 - JOOVV: For A Limited Time Go To Joovv.com/ifpodcast And Use The Code IFPODCAST For An Exclusive Discount!

50:10 - Listener Q&A: Sherri - Fasting length


Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 261 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. I'm about to tell you how you can get free electrolyte supplements, some of which are clean, fast approved, all developed by none other than Robb Wolf. Have you been struggling to feel good with low carb, paleo, keto, or fasting? Have you heard of something called the keto flu? Here's the thing. The keto flu is not actually a condition. Nope. Keto flu just refers to a bundle of symptoms. Headaches, fatigue, muscle cramps, and insomnia that people experience in the early stages of keto dieting. Here's what's going on. 

When you eat a low-carb diet, your insulin levels drop. Low insulin, in turn lowers the production of the hormone aldosterone. Now aldosterone is made in the kidneys and it helps you retain sodium. Low aldosterone on a keto diet makes you lose sodium at a rapid rate. Even if you are consciously consuming electrolytes, you might not be getting enough. In particular, you need electrolytes, especially sodium and potassium in order for nerve impulses to properly fire. Robb Wolf, who as you guys know is my hero in the holistic health world worked with the guys at Ketogains to get the exact formulation for electrolyte supplements to formulate LMNT Recharge, so you can maintain ketosis and feel your best. LMNT recharge has no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients, no junk. They're used by three Navy SEALs teams, they are the official hydration partner to Team USA weightlifting, they're used by multiple NFL teams, and so much more. Guess what? We worked out an exclusive deal for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast listeners only. Guys, this is huge. They weren't going to do a deal, I begged them, here we are. 

You can get a free LMNT sampler pack. We're not talking a discount, we're talking free. Completely free. You only pay $5 for shipping. If you don't love it, they will even refund you the $5 for shipping. I'm not kidding. The sample pack includes eight packets of LMNT, two Citrus, two Raspberry, two Orange, and two Raw Unflavored. The Raw Unflavored ones are the ones that are safe for your clean fast and the other ones you can have in your eating window. Word on the street is the Citrus flavor makes an amazing Margarita, by the way. 

I am loving LMNT and I think you guys will too. Again, this is completely free. You have nothing to lose. Just go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T dotcom forward slash I-F-P-O-D-C-A-S-T. I'll put all this information in the show notes.

And one more thing before we jump in. Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds, including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens, which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations. 

Did you know that conventional lipstick, for example often tests high for lead and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient and their products are extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combined the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, anti-aging and brightening peels, and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. 

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a band of Beauty member. It's like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally, completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now, enjoy the show.

Melanie Avalon: Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 261 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody. 

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin? 

Gin Stephens: I am fantastic. I've got some very exciting news.

Melanie Avalon: I think I know what it is and I'm excited to hear. 

Gin Stephens: We are moving.

Melanie Avalon: Again? [laughs] 

Gin Stephens: Well, look, it's been over two years since we moved. It feels like we just moved. But by the time we get moved, it will have been over two and a half years in this house. [sighs] We only made eight-tenths of a mile. We're moving out of town, we're moving to South Carolina, and we're moving to the beach, and I am so excited. We found a house this week, and we're under contract, and now, we just need to sell our house, and move, and we're downsizing this time for real, which is thrilling.

Melanie Avalon: Because last time you were, too. 

Gin Stephens: Well, I wanted to downsize last time, but I couldn't find the right house to downsize into. We upsized. We ended up in a 4,900 square foot house. Okay, nobody judge, but [laughs] now that we've been here. Going to the beach and being in our little tiny cottage, that's 900 and something square feet, I've realized how little I really need. The house we're buying is 2,700 square feet. It's 2,200 square feet smaller. So, not quite half the size, but similar. Almost half. But just slightly more than half is what I'm trying to say. I am getting rid of so many things. Here's a tip for our listeners, who probably all know this already if they're like me, but have an estate sale, get an estate sale company to do your moving sale. They sell everything that you don't want to take.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, it's fantastic. I don't have to-- Anything, I don't want to take, literally, anything. I just don't pack it and then, I leave.

Melanie Avalon: Whoa. 

Gin Stephens: And then, they're doing an estate sale with everything else that I don't take. 

Melanie Avalon: That's so cool. Wait, wait, so wait. So, you just pack and leave, and then leave, and then they do everything? 

Gin Stephens: Yeah. We arrange it around the closing of the house and we're tentatively on the schedule, because we don't have a closing set yet, but yeah.

Melanie Avalon: So, what about the stuff you leave that's not sellable. They toss it? 

Gin Stephens: The company that we are using, they're just a local Augusta company that does a couple of these every month and they have a contract with someone, who buys them out at the end anything that doesn't sell, and they tell them how much the buyout is going to be. So, it's like, "All right, we got this much leftover, you're going to give us this much money for it," and the people say, "Okay." They don't like donate or anything. I know another company that we talked, too. They just donate what isn't sold and I'm like, "Well, I don't. It depends on how much that would be." But this company, they have that relationship with the company that does the buyout, and they always buy it out, and they don't argue about the price. They just pay what they say, because it's good stuff. 

Melanie Avalon: Hmm. Why did my family not do that? Oh, wait, wait, so wait. Okay, I know so little about moving. How does it affect the next person moving into your house?

Gin Stephens: Not at all. They just move in after the sale. 

Melanie Avalon: Wow. Why didn't my mother not do this? 

Gin Stephens: Maybe she didn't think about it, because I've always thought of estate sales as being like, when somebody dies, you have an estate sale. But someone in our neighborhood just a matter of note some point last year, had an estate sale. It was a giant house that's a really old house and it was like this mansion amazing house from, I don't know, hundred years old, beautiful house. They were having an estate sale and I was like, "I just want to see that house." [laughs] So, we went to the estate sale. They're actually moving to the lake. So, they were downsizing and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, I didn't even know people did that." 

Melanie Avalon: That's a very helpful tip for moving people. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah. It's very exciting and we don't need so many of the things. I'm not going to have a formal dining room and I'm not going to have-- It's just not going to be any formal spaces. Just very casual, beachy living. We'll need to get some new stuff, because not everything we have is going to travel. But we're taking stuff out of the den, and stuff out of the master bedroom, and then our personal items. Today, I packed the books I want to take with me. You can't even tell that I packed them, because the library, and the bookshelves, and the halls are still fully stocked with books.

Melanie Avalon: Wow. Well, that's exciting. 

Gin Stephens: It is exciting. Anyway, so many changes. Chad's retiring, Will's coming with us. So, it's going to be nice. I have a room, that's going to be my podcast studio and my office. It's on the third floor of the house and it's the only room up on the third floor. And it's just going to be for me up there. I can't wait. 

Melanie Avalon: Isn't an attic? 

Gin Stephens: It's not an attic. There's attics on either side of it. It's in the little peak of the roof and I guess, they could have turned it into an attic, but instead, they turned it into a bedroom with a bathroom, and then you have attic access and a closet in there.

Melanie Avalon: Very cool. Well, keep us updated. That's exciting.

Gin Stephens: It's very exciting. I can't believe it's happening. Anyway, hopefully, send positive thoughts for sale. Masters week as we're recording this in a couple of weeks. Obviously, before it comes out, but Masters week is here in Augusta and how sales usually take off right after Masters, because people in Augusta don't really think about moving till after Masters because they rent. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Like all my neighbors. The neighbor across the street, who is now mowing. If anyone can hear mowing, they didn't rent, but we didn't rent, but everybody else on all the sides of us. A lot of the neighbors rent. We have a golfer staying next door.

Melanie Avalon: A famous golfer? 

Gin Stephens: Yes. 

Melanie Avalon: Nice. 

Gin Stephens: I cannot reveal who it is, [laughs] but it's funny all week in Augusta. You see a lot of Mercedes Benz driving around, because a lot of people come to town, businessmen come, and it's just a different kind of week. 

Melanie Avalon: Very cool. 

Gin Stephens: So, what's up with you?

Melanie Avalon: Well, I have a very exciting announcement. I think I announced this on the last episode, but I was fuzzy on the details. Now, I have all the details and this is perfect timing, because this ends tomorrow, if you're listening on the day that this episode comes out. We officially launched subscriptions for my serrapeptase supplement. I've all the details. It's very exciting. It's the biggest discount we have had yet on the serrapeptase. You get it 25% off, and not only do you get it 25% off, you get 25% off for life, because that's how it works. It actually not only do you save money, but it saves on time, and it helps support sustainability of the planet, which is super exciting to me. That's because the way we set it up is you get three bottles every four months. It saves on shipping, and emissions, and all of that stuff. You can pause or cancel at any time. There's literally nothing to worry about. My partner originally had it set up that you had to at least wait one or two cycles, I think before canceling, but I was like, "No, no, no, I want to have it pause or cancel anytime." Yeah, there's really nothing to lose. So, I'm really excited. 

Oh, by ending tomorrow, so, we'll have the subscriptions as an option ongoing and the subscriptions will always be discounted, but it's not going to be 25%. If you want that, sign up right now. You do get that 25% for life unless you-- If you cancel and then rejoin, then you'll rejoin a whatever the current discount is, which will not be 25%. Yeah, that's my big announcement. Just for listeners who are not familiar, although I feel you're probably overwhelmingly familiar by now, but serrapeptase is a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. You take it in the fasted state. It's very fasting friendly and it helps break down problematic proteins in your body. It can really help anything where your body is reacting to proteins. So, that's why it can be really good for allergies, clearing sinuses, brain fog, scar tissue, reducing it. There have been studies showing it can help reduce cholesterol, and break down amyloid plaque, and help with wound healing, and it's just really, really all the things. So, that's the thing. 

I know people are eagerly awaiting my magnesium and that will be the next big thing and it's not that far away. We're in the very final process right now of locking down everything. My last baby teaser, which I can talk about more in the future, but I'm really moving forward with the EMF blocking product I want to make where you can put your phone on your nightstand at night and still receive calls. You don't have to put in airplane mode, but you will be protected from the EMF coming from that. Because so many people sleep with their phones. I'm very wary and concerned about our exposure to EMFs in general. But if I were to think about everything, I think probably the most problematic daily or nightly thing that people are experiencing is at night when they're sleeping with their phone right by their heads. So, I'm very, very excited. So, it's all the things, all my little entrepreneur stuff.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I really think that our house, I think I've talked about this before. The master bedroom is right next to where all the electrical comes in. I won't tell that to anyone looking at the house. Hey, everyone, check out where the electricity comes into the house right by the--, no, anyway. It's just something I never would have thought of before. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: But it's right by the master.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Even with me, the electrical panel for my apartment is in my bedroom. I purposely set up my bed. It's on the opposite side of the room, but still, I think it can have a huge impact on a lot of people and they might not even realize.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's probably true. And now, I'm like, "Where's it coming into the new house?" [laughs] I may have to look, plug and see where that is. I think all the lines are buried in this house, so that should help a lot and it definitely won't be by the master, because it's a raised house, the bottom floor, it's garage, and then there's a lower level living down there, but the master bedroom is up. The main living level is really the second floor. That's where the kitchen, and the living room, and the master, they're right in the middle.

Melanie Avalon: Nice. Actually, there's something you might want to get for your house. I don't think you do. You don't use any grounding mats or anything like that, do you? 

Gin Stephens: I do not. I just walk on the beach a lot. 

Melanie Avalon: Okay. Oh, yeah, I don't have that. That's amazing. 

Gin Stephens: Walk outside barefoot whenever I can.

Melanie Avalon: The reason I was asking was R Blank, who I had on the show runs the company Shield Your Body and he makes EMF-blocking products, and he just created a product. A lot of people use grounding products and they actually feel it's making them worse. Grounding mats, and grounding canopies, and stuff like that. It's a few different things. He has a whole pamphlet about it. But it can actually be made worse based on how it's plugged in and what is actually feeding it. It can make things worse. He has made this thing that fixes all of that, so that you can use grounding products and not get the negative effects. I can put a link in the show notes to that. I think I have a coupon, too. So, I'll put a link in the show notes. 

Hi, friends. I am so thrilled that the moment you guys have been waiting for, for so long is finally here. My serrapeptase supplement is available. After realizing the sketchiness, and problematic fillers, and questionable ingredients, and quality in the supplement industry, I finally took it upon myself to just make my own supplement line, so that I can truly feel good about what I'm putting in my body and you guys can as well. Oh, my goodness, have I learned a lot and I can confidently say that my supplements are honestly the best on the market. I plan to make my own versions of everything I am currently taking, because I only want to take the best of the best. I and my partner, MD Logic relentlessly search to find the highest quality sources, and then we test those ingredients multiple times for purity and potency, and to make sure that they are free from heavy metals and mold, which you guys know is so, so important. I have suffered from toxicity from both of those things. So, testing is key. 

AvalonX supplements are free of all common allergens like wheat, gluten, eggs, soy, dairy, shellfish, nuts, even rice, which is very, very common in a lot of supplements. Check for that. They also come in glass bottles and are vegan. For my first supplement serrapeptase, we created a special process that requires small batches to make, that uses only a small amount of MCTs as the lubricant and filler. None of the other serrapeptases on the market are doing this. That was actually one of the biggest things to tackle, because most of the serrapeptase on the market has problematic fillers and suspicious enteric coatings, which likely contain plastics and other potentially toxic compounds you don't want in your body. We use a special delay release capsule that ensures the serrapeptase reaches your small intestine, so that it can be absorbed into your body. What is serrapeptase? It's a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. When you take it in the fasted state, it actually breaks down problematic proteins in your body. So, it can really help anything, where your body is reacting to problematic proteins. That's why it can radically help with allergies, it clears my sinuses like none other. And it can clear brain fog, studies have shown it may help reduce inflammation, enhance wound healing, help with pain, even reduce cholesterol, and break down amyloid plaque. 

Basically, it's the coolest supplement ever and it is an awesome way to really amplify your fast. I take it every single day. We also recently launched subscriptions, so that you can get a big discount on my supplements, as well as help, support, sustainability by reducing emissions from shipping. And my next supplement is coming soon. That is magnesium. Get excited. If you want to get the latest information, specials, news about new supplements, and stay up to date on everything, AvalonX. Definitely get on my email list. That's at avalonx.us/emaillist. When you join that list, check for the welcome email to make sure it doesn't go to spam. And you can shop, of course, at avalonx.us. Again, that is avalonx.us. AVALONX dot US, avalonx.us. And I'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now, back to the show. 

Melanie Avalon: So, shall we jump into everything for today?

Gin Stephens: Yep, let's get started.

Melanie Avalon: To start things off, we have a question from Ditra and the subject is: "Weight Watchers?" And Ditra says, "Hello, my name is D." Oh, it's D. "My name is D, and I've read two of Gin's books, and I've been intermittent fasting for two months, and feel great. I'm not weighing myself or counting calories, just judging the progress on how much healthier I'm feeling. I know you state over and over not to calorie count, but a friend asked the other day if I could use Weight Watcher points with my food window to make sure I'm staying within a healthy range. And I tried to look it up, but I couldn't find a whole lot of info on how that would work to fuse them together or even if I should. So, that's my question. Are there people who do both to increase weight loss or is that something you would discourage, because it's tantamount to counting calories? Thanks so much for the podcast." Tantamount, I need to integrate that into my vocabulary. That is an excellent word.

Gin Stephens: It is a nice word. [laughs] Well, D, thank you so much for the question. I'm glad to hear that you're feeling great after two months of intermittent fasting. You asked, "Are there people who do both?" I'm certain there are, because there are people, who count calories with fasting, there are people, who count macros with fasting. Personally, I would encourage you not to just because whenever we have these external measures of how much we are "allowed to eat" that teaches us to disregard our body's hunger and satiety signals. Let me talk about how it causes you to disregard both of them. I've never actually done Weight Watchers. I've definitely done calorie counting. But Weight Watchers is similar. You've got points, and you have a point budget for the day, and you can have, like, I don't even know how many points it would be, but let's say the answer was 22. I don't know. 22 points. You're encouraged to eat no more than 22 points. For me, I'm going to relate it to when I was calorie counting. 

Let's say I was trying to do a 1,200 calorie a day diet and I'm counting my calories or whatever. When I was counting calories, first of all, it led me to a lot of processed foods just because those were easier to count. I'm not sure if the same is for Weight Watchers as well, because I know certain things are zero points and those are things they want to encourage you to eat like fruits and vegetables. But I know that it steered me towards more processed foods than I would normally have eaten just because there's so much more easy to count. Also, I would eat something just because I had calories leftover. Even if I wasn't hungry, I'd be like, "Well, I've only had X number of calories today. I'm going to eat something else, because I can." That taught me to override any feeling of I've had enough just because I had calories leftover. With points, I know a lot of people are like, "Hey, I have points leftover. So, I'm going to eat something else." Again, the goal is really to reconnect with your body's hunger and satiety signals within your eating window. If you're still hungry, you're going to eat more. You're not going to say, "Well, I'm still hungry today, but I've already eaten all my points. I better not eat anything else." If you're still hungry, we want you to eat more, because our needs are not the same from day to day. 

Somebody today in my community was talking about they had been on a 5K this morning. And they ran a 5K, and they were done with the 5K, and then they were really hungry. They decided to open their window earlier and have a longer eating window. That's what she's doing. She's listening to her body, she's hungrier, she's eating more. She's going to have a longer window. I would really encourage you to give up all those artificial ways of managing what you're eating and really listen to your body. Look back, I imagine you've got Fast. Feast. Repeat. If you've read two of my books, that's probably one of them. Going back to the chapter on calorie counting, and every time I use the word calorie, insert the words Weight Watchers points and really think about how you want to teach your body to let you know when you've had enough instead of relying on an external counting mechanism of any type. Because that's really the goal. Animals in the wild do not count calories and they know when they've had enough. So, what do you have to say, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: I think that is excellent. I'm glad you pointed that out that never occurred to me, the thing about how it would actually encourage you to eat more, because you can fill out your points.

Gin Stephens: Oh, that was me. If I had done Weight Watchers, I would have been the person eating all the zero-point stuff nonstop. I would just be eating zero-point stuff all the time and then, I would have 22 points of ice cream or something that would probably be the way I would try to game the system. 

Melanie Avalon: That's so funny. 

Gin Stephens: If there's going to be a number limit, I'm going to game it. 

Melanie Avalon: It's really interesting. I have not done Weight Watchers. It's so funny. I had a friend growing up in middle school and high school and she was always doing Weight Watchers. I remember, she would show us the food list. I wonder if this is still on there. It had things on the list that, I mean, this could be wrong. I feel it had stingray or something. It had all of these-- [crosstalk] 

Gin Stephens: That might be a really old list. My mother did it back in the day in the 70s, 80s, and she had this old Weight Watchers book, and it did have crazy stuff in there. 

Melanie Avalon: I remember she would show us we were like, "What?"

Gin Stephens: Yeah. I think they've modernized their lists and they have a million different plans, and lists, and programs. They keep reinventing it. 

Melanie Avalon: That's what I was actually just going to talk about, because I'm looking at their website right now and I'm wondering when they introduced this. I was trying to figure out when, but I couldn't quite figure out. Because they have introducing new zero-point foods. What's really interesting about zero-point foods, it says that it's personalized to you, so you'll get a different list. But the list, I find this so interesting. The list of zero-point foods includes something within these non-starchy veggies, potatoes and starchy veggies, fruits, low fat or fat free yogurt and cottage cheese, brown rice, and whole grains, avocados, fish and shellfish, oats and oatmeal, poultry, whole wheat pasta, noodles, tofu, tempeh, corn, popcorn, beans, peas, lentils, eggs.

Gin Stephens: Do you know how much food I would eat? I'd be like, "I had zero points today" and it would have been 5,000 calories or something. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: I don't understand. It's funny, because it's basically all Whole Foods.

Gin Stephens: Well, whole foods are good. Whole Foods are really, really good.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder how this works. You get unlimited of that and then, you get also your points of other stuff. How does that work? 

Gin Stephens: Say the zero, the zero points would be tripping me up. I'd be like, "Everything I ate was zero points." Like I said, I'm going to have 22 points of pizza. [laughs] I think I always knew I would do it wrong. That's why I didn't even try it.

Melanie Avalon: But what's really interesting though is, in theory, you could combine fasting with Weight Watchers, the zero points system only, and then, it basically would be fat. It would just be eating unlimited of Whole Foods, which is what fasting is.

Gin Stephens: Well, the goal is, we want you to eat foods that are delicious, nutritious, and satisfy you. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, which is what this list is. 

Gin Stephens: And stop when you've had enough. [laughs] Although, I wouldn't be having any fat free dairy. No.

Melanie Avalon: I do not mean to say fasting is eating nutritious Whole Foods. I meant an approach that would work for a lot of people with intermittent fasting is to eat "unlimited," because it's to satiety ideally and from my perspective from Whole Foods, which is what the zero-point list is. So, yes, I think we're team not combining.

Gin Stephens: You can't if you want to. I know people have. But I know there're people who count calories in their window, there're people who follow diets in their window. But the goal is to get away from that. The freedom of intermittent fasting is adjust your window until you find a window that gives you weight loss and you don't have to worry about what and how much you're eating. When you get your window dialed in, you're going to have something that really works for your body without having to do all that counting.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and I would actually also suggest, so, I don't really suggest calorie counting combining it with fasting in general. The exception might be, if you've been doing fasting for a while and you've plateaued, I think something that might could work for people is not calorie counting every meal, because then you're just basically doing calorie restriction. But instead of doing straight up ADF, I think something that could work would be every other day or a few days per week, calorie counting the meal rather than every single day. Because then you're sending your body that signal in general, the feasting signal, but then having being a little bit sneaky and having a few days in there, where it's lower calories, I think that might could work for some people.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's the down day option of ADF, the 500-calorie down day.

Melanie Avalon: I guess, to clarify was saying like, you could do it and not necessarily make it 500 calories. You could make it thousand or maybe not go to the extreme of ADF of the down-day approach. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, and if you do have a down day with 500 calories, the next day needs to be an up day. Remember that everybody. It needs to be at least two meals and it needs to be probably eight hours or more. I wouldn't try to restrict on a day after a down day. 

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Agreed. 

Gin Stephens: All right, we have a question from Tyloria and the subject is: "Why do I get so cold during IF?" She says, "I've been doing IF since December and I've lost 14 pounds, three inches in my waist, two inches in my hips, and two inches in my bust. My endocrinologist recommended IF to me. When I saw her last week, I was shocked at how much weight I had lost. My A1c went from 7.3 to 6.7. My current weight is 203 and I'm looking forward to being under 200 pounds for the first time in 20 years. That being said, I have had a new experience. I get extremely cold, especially at night. I'm so cold that it's uncomfortable for me. I live in Mobile, Alabama, where the average temperature is 70 degrees plus and humidity averages 70% to 90%. But lately, in the evenings around bedtime, I'm so cold. I have to put on my heater and socks. I have a small heater under my desk at work that I keep running all day. I have read a few things online that talk about your body heat being diverted from your extremities during the digestive process. I have also read that this indicates fat burning or even ketosis. I have also read that it may be low iron or low blood pressure. When I started this, I listened to a few podcasts by Dr. Andrew Huberman. I think he mentioned your book Fast. Feast. Repeat."

Melanie Avalon: Okay, pause. Do we know if this is a true statement? 

Gin Stephens: I don't know if that's true. But if it is that is.

Melanie Avalon: Can we find out? 

Gin Stephens: I don't know. 

Melanie Avalon: I read that and my jaw dropped.

Gin Stephens: Well, if it's true, I'm amazed. So, I hope it's true.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. For listeners, I'm sure there's people-- He has the number one health podcast normally. I'm such a fan of him. Listeners, if you listen to his show, I'm such a fan. I don't actually actively listen to his show. I'm more listen to him on other people's shows. Listeners, if you listen to his show and you've heard this episode, can you let us know? 

Gin Stephens: That would be amazing. 

Melanie Avalon: I would love to listen to that and hear what he says.

Gin Stephens: I bet he didn't. I bet he recommended something else. But it's good it's possible. Anyway, I love that the book was life changing.

Melanie Avalon: I am friends with his agent. I want to ask him. He's crazy. Okay. Well, if anybody knows, let us know.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, that would be really mind blowing to me, so anyhow. I also love her endocrinologist recommended IF. That makes me so happy that doctors are recommending IF. Anyway, we go back to the question. She says, "When I read your book, it was life changing for me. That being said, I trust your opinion and your research. You covered every possible scenario, but I don't recall info on this topic." Actually, it's there in the Frequently Asked Questions section. But that's way in the back. I could see how somebody could miss it, but it is there. She says, "My brain is analytical. If I understand the science behind what's happening to my body, it makes sense to me. I would greatly appreciate any insight you could provide. I do subscribe to your podcast" and she also says, "Can you all let me know when this question will be answered? Thank you." I'll answer that. The answer's no. You just have to keep listening.

Melanie Avalon: We're answering it now. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, today. 

Melanie Avalon: All right. Tyloria, so thank you for your question. Okay. I did a bit of research on this, which I'd actually talked about this. Now, I'm curious. I think I talked about this in What When Wine as well and I want to revisit what I say in there. I think in there, I talked about the blood flow aspect to the extremities, as well as the correlation to longevity of low body temperatures. That said, I did some more recent updated research and this was very interesting. I found two fun studies that I read through. One is called lower core body temperature and greater body fat are components of a human thrifty phenotype, and the other is core body temperature, energy expenditure, and epinephrine during fasting, eucaloric feeding and overfeeding in healthy adult men, evidence for a ceiling effect for human, thermogenic response to diet. Okay, let's go through this. So, question, Gin. What percent of our basal metabolic rate do you think contributes to maintaining our body temperature? I did not know this.

Gin Stephens: Huh. That's interesting. I don't know. I'm just going to guess 15%.

Melanie Avalon: That's what I would have guessed. It's 50. 

Gin Stephens: Really? So, you would have said more 15 as well? That's amazing. 

Melanie Avalon: About half of our daily metabolism is just maintaining our body temperature. That's a really interesting concept to think about. The way it relates to all of this is, yes, people, while fasting often get colder and I think the primary reason for this isn't so much-- Well, it depends how you look at it. It's like a glass half empty, glass half full. Is it that you're getting colder or is it that eating makes you warmer? Because across the board, when people eat, there is something called diet-induced thermogenesis, which is basically heat production from the eating process. People's core body temperature consistently tends to elevate when we eat. If you are eating throughout the day, you are presumably going to have a higher resting body temperature than when you're in the fasted state. What's really interesting about one of these studies was talking about was and I'm going to preface it by saying other studies have not found this. There're conflicting findings. But one of these did find that, there're two phenotypes like the thrifty phenotype. That's like their body is less likely to lose weight, more likely to gain weight. It's trying to protect you from future starvation, and then they have the spendthrift phenotype, which is more laissez faire and more easily burns calories and loses weight. Between these two metabolic states, the thrifty phenotype people tend to get colder while fasting, and then, interestingly, when they eat, they don't get as warm. So, their bodies-- [crosstalk] 

Gin Stephens: You said that's the thrifty phenotype doesn't get as warm? Because I get so hot after eating. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. And do you get cold while fasting a lot? 

Gin Stephens: Yes, but not crazy cold. 

Melanie Avalon: But not crazy cold. The spendthrift phenotype, they're the ones that are more likely to not get overweight. They get hotter after eating. That all said, there's another little caveat to this and it's that, if you are the type that like your basal metabolic temperature is already at the ceiling, which is 37 degrees Celsius, what is that in Fahrenheit? If your normal basal body temperature is considered the ceiling of normal basal body temperature, which is 37 degrees Celsius or 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, then, you actually, probably won't get that much hotter from eating. Because they call it a ceiling effect. All of that is to say that it's nuanced and complicated, but if you are the type and it sounds like Tyloria might be this type, because she's struggled with being overweight. If you are the type of person that is their body more naturally gravitates towards becoming overweight, it's possible that you're in this thrifty phenotype. What's interesting is it means that you are probably going to get colder while fasting and then, when you eat you'll get hotter, because there's a higher potential for you to get hotter, because you're not hitting that ceiling. So, it even further exacerbates feeling colder. I don't know if I'm explaining that correctly. Because if you're constantly just running at a higher body temperature, you're not going to experience that big difference between fasting and eating, like, you would if you're this other phenotype. 

As far as the reasoning for it, like, why is that happening, the study I was looking at was saying it could be due to a lot of things. It could be genetics. It could be sympathetic nervous system response. I was looking at another study and for example, epinephrine is a hormone that is often released in fasting. It's one of our stress hormones, but it has a lot of benefits like keeping us alert and releasing fat stores. So, people who naturally have higher epinephrine levels tend to run at a higher body temperature. So, that could be a factor. Prior weight loss attempts, so, your history could actually affect how your body responds with its body temperature. I didn't read the link studies for that, but I'm going to assume. Don't quote me on this, but I'm going to assume that you've dieted in the past that your body might become more "thrifty." Differing levels of physical fitness or individual hormonal responses, also, something like brown adipose tissue could be a factor. People, who have higher amounts of brown adipose fat, they'll actually be warmer when fasting or when cold, because one of the purposes of that fat is actually to generate heat. 

All of that to say is that, yes, it is completely normal to have a lower body temperature while fasting. It's very different between individuals and it's possible that as you evolve in your body weight and are making beneficial changes, it's possible that it could change, because especially, with something like brown adipose tissue, for example, that's something that we know we can actually increase with cold exposure. It's one of the reasons I do cryotherapy every single day. If you were to build that up, that would help your response. So, that was all over the place. Oh, and lastly, I think some people if they are doing fasting and it's too restrictive for their body, I can see how it might negatively affect their thyroid and they might feel colder from that. That's something definitely to keep in mind. You might want to monitor your thyroid levels. But all of that to say and I said this at the very beginning, but a lower body temperature actually is correlated to longevity. So, maybe, you can reframe it as having some longevity spiking potential. 

Gin Stephens: Yep, that's very true. We talked so much about not wanting to slower metabolisms, but actually a slower metabolism is linked to longevity. [laughs] Basically, once you get to your happy weight and you right now, I don't care what my metabolism is, because I'm eating in a point that allows me to maintain. 

Melanie Avalon: What was in your book about it? 

Gin Stephens: Well, I kept it simple. It was in the Frequently Asked Questions section and it's one paragraph. On page 307, I talked about the two just big generalities. First of all, digesting food creates a lot of heat, which keeps us warm and toasty. And also, when we're fasting, just like Tyloria said that when we're fasting, our bodies direct blood flow to our fat stores and away from our extremities to mobilize fat for fuel. So, having less blood flow to the extremities can make us feel cold.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, now, I'm just looking at what I said in my book as well and it also was very short. I said, "You shouldn't feel uncomfortably cold while fasting though, I've personally become a colder person in body not spirit." Since losing body fat from IF, I said, "If IF makes you a little chilly, make sure you're eating enough in your fasting window as unintentional undereating may or may not cause issues."

Gin Stephens: You didn't say fasting window there, did you? 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, sorry.

Gin Stephens: [laughs] I was like, "Oh, did we just find a typo in your book?" Did you say fasting window?

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I did.

Gin Stephens: Uh-oh. Typos are everywhere. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. 

Gin Stephens: Ain't that funny? You never noticed it, never would have. Yeah. Do not eat more in your fasting window everybody. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: That's amazing. Well, so, if you read that, that's not what that supposed to say. I said to combat cold consider eating more, fasting less, or eating thermogenic foods such as coconut oil. Oh, no, I said, if you can't seem to fix your inner thermostat, consider getting your thyroid checked. I will say what I eat C8 MCT and add that to my food, I get so hot and it lasts throughout the next day. That might be something to consider trying. When I listened to your audiobook, Gin, I only heard one thing. Do you know what it was? I guess, you would want to know, because you would--

Gin Stephens: No.

Melanie Avalon: The MTHFR.

Gin Stephens: Oh, did I say it wrong? 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it was the wrong order of the letters. 

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's so funny. That was just a tongue twisted. I'm sure just my mouth saying it wrong.

Melanie Avalon: What's funny about it is, because I was thinking about it and I was thinking like, do you talk about MTHFR much? 

Gin Stephens: No. 

Melanie Avalon: That's what I was thinking. I was like, "So, people who don't have MTHFR or have never looked into it, they wouldn't think about the order of the letters." 

Gin Stephens: It's funny that the director didn't notice that I said it wrong. I'm sure I didn't have it wrong in the book.

Melanie Avalon: I doubt you did.

Gin Stephens: I just said it wrong. Yeah, it is. So, you know. You've read audiobooks before. It is so hard to read audiobook. 

Melanie Avalon: The reason I was thinking about it was, I was like, the only people who are going to notice it are people who have MTHFR. Because we say MTHFR is like a--

Gin Stephens: Was that in Clean(ish) or Fast. Feast, Repeat.? 

Melanie Avalon: Clean(ish)

Gin Stephens:  I was like, I don't think I mentioned it in. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I didn't hear anything in Fast. Feast, Repeat. Oh, it's so-- 

Gin Stephens: Oh, well. Well, I can't even find it. I don't even know where I was looking in the index here of Clean(ish). I don't even know where it is. [laughs] But yeah, I know I have it in there. I do know what it is, but who knows. I was also sick while I was recording that. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: I know. I can't believe you did that. 

Gin Stephens: It's amazing that any of it is coherent to tell you the truth. I had a fever.

Melanie Avalon: It's a lot. I can't believe you recorded the entire audiobook for both. That's a lot.

Gin Stephens: For both of them, oh, I know, I know. I feel I had to, because everybody knows my voice or well, okay, not everybody, but a lot of people who know my voice would be listening, give their podcast listeners, they are more likely to want the audiobook. So, I had to do it, but I was happy to do it. I was mainly happy when I was finished it. I'm so glad I did it. I am not complaining.

Melanie Avalon: I've shared the story before, but my publisher made me audition and then they wouldn't even let me do the whole thing, which looking back is just so surreal to me, because I feel I should have narrated it. 

Gin Stephens: You totally should have. 

Melanie Avalon: It doesn't make much sense. 

Gin Stephens: I made him put it in my contract, because I remembered that from you. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, really? Nice, nice. Yeah. 

Gin Stephens: Because I was like, "[unintelligible [00:45:14] going in the contract."

Melanie Avalon: I know it's a thing, though, because I just interviewed Bill Schindler recently and he said, they made him audition for him as well. 

Gin Stephens: Really? 

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. 

Gin Stephens: Oh, my gosh. I guess, it might also just depend on the publisher and who the team is. But it never even was a question, because I think like I said, they know that I have such a big podcast audience with this one and the other one that people would expect to hear me. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Who was your audiobook publisher? Was it also--?

Gin Stephens: Macmillan.

Melanie Avalon: Okay.

Gin Stephens: Macmillan Audio. They are amazing. Such a good team. So, fabulous to work with.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if, because my audiobook publisher, it was not my publisher publisher. It was Tantor Audio.

Gin Stephens: Okay.

Melanie Avalon: Which is a really big audio publisher. I think maybe if my audiobook publisher had been my publisher, I feel it would have gone differently. But it's like they were not outsourcing it, but they handed it off to this really big publisher. So, then, they were just looking at me objectively and we're like, "You got to audition."

Gin Stephens: Yeah, because your main publishing house was not one of the big giant ones, is it?

Melanie Avalon: It was an imprint at one of the big ones, but it wasn't. But they didn't have like a--

Gin Stephens: They don't do it there. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Okay, okay. Yeah, I guess, I'm just lucky that they have Macmillan Audio right in there. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. 

Gin Stephens: It's quite a process. The amount of time that it takes to record an audiobook is crazy. But I am surprised nobody noticed. I said it wrong. Because the team that was with me recording Clean(ish) was amazing. They'd be like, "You said that a little weird. Would you read that, again?"

Melanie Avalon: I'm guessing none of them have MTHFR issues. 

Gin Stephens: No. 

Melanie Avalon: Like I said, that's all I was thinking you're only going to notice it if you're a person that has gone down the MTHFR rabbit hole, because you use the word colloquially as like a phrase compared to just looking at letters, but fun times.

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Melanie Avalon: We have a question from Sherry. The subject is: "Fasting link.' Sherry says, "Hi, Gin and Melanie, I'm a faithful listener to this podcast and the ones you each do separately. You guys are so knowledgeable and helpful. I have been intermittent fasting for over a year with a four-hour eating window. I am experiencing so many benefits that this is definitely my life. I know everyone must find their own path, but I was wondering about information on how long someone should fast for to reduce arthritis, pain, skin health, and dental health. Gin, on your podcast, Intermittent Fasting Stories, your guest said, she had to fast for so many hours to not have pain. I was wondering if you guys were familiar with this, I adore you guys and you have both found your calling. Thanks in advance. Intermittent faster for life." 

Gin Stephens: Well, thank you, Sherry. I think Melanie and I would agree that we do believe we found our calling and we love it. We love the work that we're doing. I know we both do. I'm speaking for you, Melanie, but I knew that was the answer. 

Melanie Avalon: That is correct. 

Gin Stephens: Here's the thing about that question, Sherry. I have heard from so many people that they have had reduced arthritis pain, or their skin has gotten better, or their dental health has improved. But intermittent fasting doesn't always "fix" those things for everybody. It really just depends on why you have the pain, or what what's happening with your skin, or what's going on with your dental health. Intermittent fasting addresses inflammation, for example. Anything that's related to increased inflammation, if you do intermittent fasting, you can expect you'll likely see benefits there. But from what I understand not all arthritis is strictly just because of inflammation. I think there's other things like your joints can be damaged. It might not make any difference at all depending on the root cause of why you're having that pain. The same thing with skin. Someone in our community yesterday was talking about she's like, "I've been doing intermittent fasting and my acne is terrible. It's just not getting any better." I asked her, I said, "Did your acne get worse after fasting or has this always been a problem?" She said, "No, it's always been a problem." I said, "Well, then, unfortunately, it just seems like whatever is the cause of your acne is not something that intermittent fasting is correcting." So, that doesn't mean that someone else won't have an improvement with acne, thanks to intermittent fasting. It's really just a matter of what your root cause might be. 

Perhaps, you're having arthritis pain or issues with your skin due to something you're eating, that's not working well for your body. Intermittent fasting isn't going to correct that to the fullest. If you're eating something that doesn't agree with your body, the best thing to do would be to take that out. You'd have to do an elimination approach to try to figure out what that might be. Dental health, again, that's also really, really complex. I've definitely heard from people on the podcast, who have an improved dental checkup after doing fasting, because you're not eating all hours of the day anymore. But I still had to have crowns and dental work done. It's like when you're doing intermittent fasting, you know it's doing great things in your body, but it isn't going to necessarily correct every issue that you have had, unfortunately. So, we can't say here's how many hours to fast not have pain, because fasting might not have anything to do with your pain as far as the underlying cause it might not correct that underlying cause. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I thought that was a great answer. It's so, so individual. I will say, I'll just speak briefly to each of them. The skin health and Gin just touched on this. My experience with fasting is that, it really, really helps my skin. I will say though, if you are having skin issues, I would really, really look at what you're eating, because I think that often really can affect our skin. I know for me, historically, even, I went through a period where I was really struggling with psoriasis, and I just could not figure it out, and I ended up figuring it out, and it was something I was eating. It was lettuce. 

Gin Stephens: What? This is while you're doing fasting? 

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Lettuce?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. The reason I figured it out was it was happening on my fingers, mostly. But it was also happening on my face. But I put [unintelligible [00:54:41] together that I was chopping lettuce every night, so it's where I was touching it, and then it was also manifesting my face. When I cut out lettuce, it all went away. 

Gin Stephens: I wonder if it's something that they had sprayed on it? 

Melanie Avalon: I've been wondering about that and I'm trying to remember, because this was a while ago and I'm trying to remember if I was just eating organic or if I was eating conventional as well. But I really feel for people, who struggle with psoriasis and conditions like that, well, also acne because I had acne growing up as well. I identify with you if you have skin issues, because you can feel just so helpless, because you just don't know how to make it go away. I remember when I had the psoriasis on my fingers, I was like, because this is when I was doing a lot of acting. I was always looking at casting calls and I would see casting calls [unintelligible [00:55:31] models, and I was like, "I can never apply for that, because I have psoriasis on my hands." I will say, looking at what you're eating can be huge. Especially, things like acne, I do wonder, if I could go back to growing up when I had really bad acne, because I ended up doing Accutane, which did fix my acne problem, but I do wonder going back if I had just done dietary changes that would have actually resolved the acne.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, well, I refused my boys wanted to take Accutane, because they had friends doing it. I'm like, "Nope, we're not doing that."

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah. And boys, it's even worse, the side effects.

Gin Stephens: Yeah, we didn't do it, but it all resolved. But I had zits here and there. What bad didn't have what you would consider acne, it wasn't-- Both my boys did. It comes from Chad's side of the family and it was hard for them. It's definitely a struggle.

Melanie Avalon: My experience, too. Have I shared this on the story before like they put me on birth control first? 

Gin Stephens: I think you might have. 

Melanie Avalon: I had to be on birth control in order to get on the Accutane, because it's part of the Accut--. I don't know if it goes this way now. I don't know if it's changed. 

Gin Stephens: It leads to birth defects. Big time. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. At the time, I'm really curious if they still do this. You have to do this whole thing. Accutane as the company has this whole-- You have to get a workbook. You have to take online quizzes, you had to be on birth control, you had to do all of this stuff. Yeah, I think I've shared this before, but basically, I had to go on birth control for certain amount of time, a long time, like a month or something. We went in to actually get Accutane, because I qualify now, because I've been on birth control for so long. The dermatologist was like, "Oh, well, I think the birth control is making enough of a difference. So, I'm not going to prescribe it." I just started bawling in the room and it's really frustrating to look back, because I shouldn't have been on birth control when I was 16. I don't know. All of that to say, oh, that's also when I realized when I went on birth control, I didn't change anything that I can see in my diet. But if you look at my pictures in high school, I probably gained-- Again, I was never overweight, but I definitely gained probably, a substantial amount in a very short amount of time and I really think that that was the birth control. 

Gin Stephens: But I also wondered since you did it for a month and then you started the Accutane, I wonder if the Accutane affected your gut somehow. 

Melanie Avalon: Mm, yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. 

Gin Stephens: Because you didn't do the birth control by itself very long.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Well, did I stay on it?

Gin Stephens: On the birth control or the Accutane? I feel they would make you take them both at the same time.

Melanie Avalon: Well, what ended up happening was, we gone to that one dermatologist and when she said, no, and I was crying, and we went home, we knew another dermatologist that was out of our network. The reason we gone to her was she was in network. We knew our friend's dermatologist would prescribe it without birth control. So, we went to her. She just trusted that you were not sexually active--

Gin Stephens: On our system. 

Melanie Avalon: All of that to say, what I have learned from my journey and my experience is that, the food that you're eating has a major effect on your skin health. Also, if you want to support skin health in general, red-light therapy can be super amazing. Oh, we should have talked about this earlier because I think Joovv is actually sponsoring today's episode. 

Gin Stephens: Oh, that's funny. 

Melanie Avalon: I know. I did not even realize that. So, listen to the spot for Joovv, because their red-light therapy devices are amazing. I think our link is joovv.com/ifpodcast and I think IF PODCAST gets you a code. That's something I would use daily for skin health. I do personally. And then, I just want to talk really briefly to the other things, which was the arthritis. Yes, I'm glad Gin talked about that, that there can be a lot of causes for that. I will do a plug for my serrapeptase, because there actually is clinical studies on it reducing arthritis pain. So, that might be something that you could use to amplify your fast and maybe help with that. And then, dental health, I'm so excited about this. I connected with a company called Bristle, recently. I will find out if I can-- I think I'm going to have a code for them, but they actually do an oral microbiome test which is so exciting. Have you done one of those, Gin or have you--?

Gin Stephens: I have not done an oral microbiome test. I actually have an oral hygiene company that sponsors Intermittent Fasting Stories and they are big in the oral microbiome as far as like, "You don't want to kill your oral microbiome." I was like, "I had no idea." "All the mouthwashes that you use and swish around, you're killing the good guys, too." I was like, "Mind blown, I never thought of that." [laughs] So, I switched to my toothpaste. Lumineux is the brand name.

Melanie Avalon: I've been thinking about that for a really, really long time and it's really interesting, because it's how the gut microbiome was a new frontier, and it's only relatively pretty recent that exploration of the gut microbiome has become so exploded.

Gin Stephens: Once they could sequence what was in there and figure it out, they used to didn't know.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. But I think the next wave will be the oral microbiome. There're actually new theories that a lot of gut issues and such might actually, the root cause might not always be completely in the gut. It could be your oral microbiome. 

Gin Stephens: Well, the whole thing is really from mouth to hiney, [laughs] is just a tube that just goes through straight through you. So, and everything along the way from mouth to backside.

Melanie Avalon: I'm actually just got an email today saying that my results were received. It was super easy to do. You just spit saliva into this little tube thing and send it back. 

Gin Stephens: That does sound interesting. 

Melanie Avalon: If you want to try it, I can connect you with them. I'm sure they would send you one.

Gin Stephens: I actually heard someone talk about your digestive system is actually being on the outside of your body. Have you heard that? 

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.

Gin Stephens: Yeah. You're like, "Wait a minute." [laughs] Because you're putting stuff. It's all and obviously, stuff goes in and out through, but stuff goes in and out through your skin as well. Just the same way.

Melanie Avalon: If you think about it--

Gin Stephens: You're like a hose pipe, a tube.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, like, if you have a box and then you put a tube from one side of the box to the other side of the box, into the box, a hollow tube.

Gin Stephens: The interior of it is not in the box. It goes through the box. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Gin Stephens: Our digestive system goes through us and stuff goes in and out of it into our bodies. Just like I said, stuff goes in and out of our skin. I know that was mind blowing. I'm like, "What?"

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I've been pondering that concept. I have not received my discount code from them yet, but I'll put it in the show notes, and I will try to make it MELANIEAVALON. If you go to bristlehealth.com, so, that's B-R-I-S-T-L-E-H-E-A-L-T-H dotcom, that's where you can get that system. Again, I don't have the code yet, but I'm going to email them right after this and I will try to make the code MELANIEAVALON. But you can check the show notes to confirm that and the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode261. Okay, so, that was wonderful. A few other things for listeners before we go. If you'd like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. I am @melanieavalon, Gin is @ginstephens, and yes, you can get all these stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. 

Gin Stephens: Awesome. 

Melanie Avalon: Okay, I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Gin before we go?

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it.

Melanie Avalon: Okey-dokey. Well, this was wonderful and I will talk to you next week. 

Gin Stephens: All right, bye. 

Melanie Avalon: Bye. 

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice. We're not doctors. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, theme music by Leland Cox. See you next week.


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More on Gin: GinStephens.com

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