Welcome to Episode 264 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle.
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Listener Q&A: Julie - Delaying certain foods
Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 264 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
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And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally, completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty, I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right, now, enjoy the show.
Melanie Avalon: Hi, everybody, and welcome this is Episode number 264 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with, Gin Stephens.
Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.
Melanie Avalon: And [giggles] before I say, how are you today, Gin, so, people I think we might have announced this before this episode airs. So, people might be familiar, today is a special, sad--
Gin Stephens: It's bittersweet, right? Is that the right word for it?
Melanie Avalon: Yeah.
Gin Stephens: The people might have heard about it on as of the episode comes out on maybe Instagram, or in your Facebook group, or in my group, but for some people who just only listen, this might be the first time they're going to hear it.
Melanie Avalon: Yes. So, Gin--
Gin Stephens: I know. We haven't rehearsed this, we haven't talked about it.
Melanie Avalon: Normally, I'm a planner. So, normally, I have everything planned out. But Gin will be leaving the podcast.
Gin Stephens: Yep, this is my last episode. This is the last one and it isn't anything, like, there's not a giant reason. All of a sudden it felt it was time for me to go in a different direction and that's all. I've loved this podcast. If you listened last week, we were reflecting on. We already knew. We've been talking about this. Gosh, it's been about a month that we've been talking about it and planning for the transition?
Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. Probably.
Gin Stephens: Probably. Maybe even a little bit longer than that. But reflecting on five years, so, last week talking about the five years, and all the positives, and how grateful I am for this experience for all the listeners, whether you've been there since 2017 or whether this is the first time you've listened to everyone in between, I'm grateful for every minute of this podcast and for everything for you, Melanie. It's funny and I know we've talked about how we met when you came into the Facebook group. I think we talked about that last week. But the universe works in a mysterious way. The very week before you popped into the group asking, "If anyone wanted to start a podcast?" Do you remember that the very week before was the first time I'd ever been a guest on a podcast? Do you remember me telling you that story?
Melanie Avalon: Yeah.
Gin Stephens: I had never been a guest on anybody's podcast before. I didn't listen to podcasts, which everyone knows. Someone, who had been in my Facebook group had started a podcast. I can't even remember the name of that podcast. I think it was political-- I don't even know. But he's like, "Would you talk about fasting?" I'm like, "Sure, why not." It went really, really well. I remember, I was talking to my sister and I'm like, "I'm good at this. I wonder if I could do a podcast?" Then like, "Yeah, I didn't know how to do a podcast." And the very next week, you popped in there asking, "If anyone wanted to cohost a podcast?" It felt divine intervention and I wouldn't have Intermittent Fasting Stories, we wouldn't have Life Lessons. If it hadn't been for you showing up that day, I might think that maybe one day I would have done it, but I didn't know enough about doing a podcast. I don't think I would have. So, I owe it all to you and the divine timing of you popping in there that day.
Melanie Avalon: It's so crazy. For me, I had been wanting to do a podcast for years, literally, probably, years, really years. I've probably been wanting to do a podcast since I started listening to podcasts in middle school.
Gin Stephens: I remember you saying that. You've said that before. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: I wanted to do an Intermittent Fasting Podcast specifically, probably. We launched this in 2017, right? Probably, since 2014 or so I'd wanted to do this. I am so, so grateful as well, because what I just said, wanting to do this, what manifest is literally, the dream manifestation of what I'd always hoped for and I don't know, but I don't know if that would have been possible without you. I'm so grateful for our friendship and what we've created in five years.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, all of that. Me, too. All of it.
Melanie Avalon: It's been really, really wonderful. Oh, I feel it's been for both of us. It really launched both of us into the social media world more and everything that we're doing now, not that it's due to this at all, but this was definitely, at least for me a catalyst for so many things.
Gin Stephens: Well, it was huge. It was huge, because getting our message out there, mine and yours., the podcast, people found us all different ways. Some people found us through the Facebook groups, some people found us through maybe they read What When Wine or Delay, Don’t Deny, or Fast. Feast. Repeat., or maybe they found us through this podcast. But it all works together. Maybe they found us on Instagram, although, probably not me. [laughs] They probably didn't find me on Instagram. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Not me, not me in the beginning. [giggles]
Gin Stephens: Here I am. Here's my cat. [laughs] Anyway, it all just really worked together, and it's just been a beautiful journey, and I'm really, really grateful for it. Like I said, so, if anybody who's listening in and you're sad, don't be sad. I'm not going anywhere in the world. I'm still going to be everywhere I am right now. If you want to follow the ins and outs of my life, it's not going to be Instagram, because that's-- I'm pretty boring there. But the Life Lessons Podcast every Wednesday, I'll still be talking to share. If you're not a Life Lessons listener, you might like it. It's not about fasting. We really love talking about all the different topics on that show. Just like I know you love the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, where you get to talk about all different things. It's fun to explore different topics, sometimes.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think and also just stepping back, because both of us were doing so many things. I think for this show it was just a moment. With you and everything that you're doing, it just didn't really line up with everything that you were doing moving forward. I don't want to speak for you.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think that's a good way of saying it. Like I said, it just felt like it was time to go in a different direction. I've always been a very intuitive kind, I make my decisions. I think about something, but then it just feels right. All of a sudden, it just felt right. I don't know. It's hard to explain. But it doesn't take away from how amazing this journey has been with this podcast and how grateful I am. Like I said to the audience, to you, to our wonderful assistants, who make it happen week after week behind the scenes, I'm grateful for every little bit of it. Everything we've learned, we've learned a lot along the way.
Melanie Avalon: What's really crazy is, I don't know if I ever mentioned this publicly on the show, but when we started, I just moved to Atlanta, too, I think, right?
Gin Stephens: Maybe so.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I moved to Atlanta in 2014.
Gin Stephens: Okay. You might have been just about to move back to LA.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's right.
Gin Stephens: So, it was Atlanta, LA, back to Atlanta.
Melanie Avalon: That's correct. Well, the guy I had been dating in LA before moving to Atlanta was an author and a podcaster. So, he was my mentor and able to tell me basically exactly what to do. But it's confused. If you haven't done it before, it's just confusing.
Gin Stephens: It's so confusing. I bought the book, Podcasting For Dummies when I was going to start Intermittent Fasting Stories, because even though, I had been a cohost with you on this one for over a year at that point, I didn't know how to do all the stuff you did. I didn't know how to edit, I didn't know how to-- Because you were doing all of that. I didn't know anything or how do you upload it? What's the host? I don't know. I got the book, Podcasting For Dummies and I'm like, "I'm so dumb. I can't even understand it from this book." So, that was when I was like, "Wait, I can hire a company" and that's how I ended up with resonate recordings. They helped me. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Well, yeah, because what's funny about it, so, I think every other platform like YouTube, Instagram, you go into a platform and you create the content within the platform. It's like a one-stop shop. Podcasting, for those who are not familiar, it's very vague. [giggles] There're lots of hosts and then you have this feed that you submit to the distribution channels, but it automatically submits, but not. [laughs] It's weird.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, and I'm like, "I don't even know." The editing, I'm like, "I don't know how to edit audio. I don't think I'd be good at that." I mean, maybe I would. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, because I was at the beginning, I was editing it.
Gin Stephens: All of it. You did all it for a long time.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, my gosh. [giggles] If listeners are curious, I was so neurotic in the very beginning, because we released our first few episodes, and I would go read iTunes reviews, and people would be nitpicking things, making comments about my voice or my laugh. I think I probably told you this, Gin. I don't know. Did tell you what I was doing with my laugh?
Gin Stephens: No.
Melanie Avalon: I went through a period in the beginning. Somebody wrote a comment about how they didn't like my laugh. So, I would edit out my laugh.
Gin Stephens: Oh, my gosh, what a jerk. Who said that? Whoever doesn't like your laugh, I don't like their laugh.
Melanie Avalon: They're like, "it makes her sound like a valley girl or something." I'm very grateful. I finally reached the point, where it was like--
Gin Stephens: If you don't like the laugh, pick a different podcast, buddy.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm just going to be me.
Gin Stephens: This is my laugh. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: I remember at one point, I don't know if it was that show or for my other show, somebody emailed me to tell me that-- What did they say? They said that, it might have also been about my laugh. It was something about-- something I do after I ask a question to guests, I do something, and they were like, I don't know if they were saying it out of kindness, but he basically said, "I know you're a really strong, intelligent woman, but you do this thing that makes you sound like not intelligent." I answered her very nicely. But that was the moment where I was like, "I can't be in my head while I'm recording with somebody thinking about how I'm coming off. I just have to be there."
Gin Stephens: Yeah. 100%.
Melanie Avalon: You learn a lot.
Gin Stephens: You do learn a lot. And that's why I've never been a review reader. [laughs] I don't read them, because I'm like, "You know who Glennon Doyle is."
Melanie Avalon: What did they write?
Gin Stephens: She had a blog called "Momastery" or something that I read. It was a long time ago, and she is a blogger, and now she has a podcast, and she put something out that-- It was a blog post and it was early in the days of when I had just released Delay, Don't Deny, and I used to read all my reviews, and they would hurt my feelings. When someone then, I would try to answer them. Someone said, Delay, Don't Deny was plagiarized. I'm like, "What in the world?" Then somebody else was like, " Delay, Don't Deny is just the squirrels memoir." I'm like, "How can it be plagiarized and just my memoir?" That doesn't even make sense. I have a doctorate. I wrote a dissertation. I know how to not plagiarize. There's nothing plagiarized there. Anyway, I would get mad at the reviews when they would say things that were clearly not true.
This blog post by Glennon Doyle, she talked about how it is not our responsibility to follow our art around in the world and defend it. This is for any creator, anyone who's creating anything. She wrote it to a literal artist, who put art out in the world, and had a website with her art, and people would criticize or critique her art, and then the artist would get her feelings hurt and whatever. She's like, "No, you create the art, you put it out there, your part is done. It is not yours--" But the way she said it, "It is not your responsibility to babysit your art and follow it around the world and defend it." I thought, "Well, there you go."
Melanie Avalon: I can also apply to the artist, I think.
Gin Stephens: You don't have to defend yourself.
Melanie Avalon: Part of the art? Mm-hmm.
Gin Stephens: Oh, right. Exactly. Yeah. But you don't have to defend it. It is what it is. Our art, our words, our writing, it is what it is, and it'll either resonate with you or it won't, and that is not my responsibility. I did the best, I could I put it out there.
Melanie Avalon: I love that.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, that's been my philosophy. Literally, Glennon Doyle, I don't know if she knows I exist, but I know she exists and that really shaped my resilience when it came to not even needing to read a review.
Melanie Avalon: The thing that really shaped or it's more been more recent, but I had Bill Tancer on the Biohacking Podcast, and he wrote a book called Everyone's a Critic. If anybody has created anything, where they are dealing with reviews, I highly, highly suggest reading that book. It's an entire book about reviews and how actually negative reviews can actually help. You actually want some negative reviews, if you have a collection of reviews for something. It makes people less suspicious of the reviews, it makes people more trusting. He goes into the nuances, which you can probably guess this, Gin. So, the grammar of the reviews affects things.
Gin Stephens: Well, I feel if it's got really poor grammar, you might not take it as seriously. Is that true or is it the opposite, if that's true?
Melanie Avalon: If there are negative reviews that are poor grammar and things like that, people dismiss them and think they're spam. It makes them more likely to trust the entirety of the reviews, because they know they're negative reviews, but then they disregard the negative reviews, so, it actually helps. That's just one of the many fun facts in his book. Actually, speaking of reviews, they do really, really help and we have something exciting that ties this all together, because I do want to tell listeners about now, they're probably wondering--
Gin Stephens: What's going to happen? We did notice we didn't say we are ending the podcast. This is the last episode. We did not say that, because it's not. It's just my last episode as cohost.
Melanie Avalon: When Gin and I were discussing this, we decided that I would continue with the show. Obviously, I don't want to have the show by myself. I was looking for a cohost and I'm really, really excited and really grateful because we have a wonderful cohost coming on board, and listeners are probably-- I bet a lot of listeners are probably very familiar with her, already.
Gin Stephens: Yeah, I've had her on my show twice. How many times has she been on your show?
Melanie Avalon: Twice.
Gin Stephens: See. And I've met her in person.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, you have. I've done an IG Live with her, she's very active in my groups. I want to play the guessing game with the audience, but I can't, as they can't talk back. [giggles]
Gin Stephens: I will tell you this. This is funny. I have a group of friends. They were moderators. It's just a few of them. We were the ones who were using the Biosense at the same time back in the day. Whenever that was, we were a little Biosense group, we were talking about it, but now, we're just talking about stuff. It's not even called Biosense anymore. But I said, "Y'all, I'm leaving the podcast." I was wanted to like-- Oh, no, because one of them very much listens to this podcast and she was mentioning something she'd heard on it. I'm like, "Well, I'm leaving it" and she said-- I'm like, "There's going to be a new cohost, but I can't tell you." I haven't told them who it was. But she guessed this person. She said, "I think it's going to be--" And then she said it. I'm like, "I can't tell you. [laughs] You'll just have to wait." Anyway. But she guessed the right person. So, in the guessing game, no one guessed anybody else, but it was this person was guessed.
Melanie Avalon: What's really interesting is, I had spoken with a few friends when I was brainstorming, trying to think of who to bring on and two people, three people, I didn't get any other suggestions. But at least two people specifically suggested this person before I even said anything. I was like, "Oh, that's maybe a sign."
Gin Stephens: Yeah, oh, I think it is totally a sign.
Melanie Avalon: The new cohost will be, Cynthia Thurlow. For listeners, who have not met her yet, you will be meeting her. I'll tell you that the upcoming schedule for everything. But she is the author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation, a book that just came out that we have talked about actually a lot on this show. It's a fabulous intermittent fasting book, it's specifically geared towards women, and specifically, their hormones, and transitions like perimenopause and menopause. That's a really, really wonderful work. She actually became famous in the intermittent fasting world, because I would say that she's famous in the intermittent fasting world. She had a TED talk in May of 2019 called Intermittent Fasting Transformational Technique and it's had over 10 million views, and that really launched her into the whole IF world. She's a Nurse Practitioner. That's going to be really exciting for the show. Gin and I get a lot of more medical questions and we can give our opinions, but we're not doctors. She literally is in that vein. So, none of this is to say that, this is any better than what I have done. It's just going to be different. I'm really, really excited. To keep everything, like I said, bring everything full circle, so Gin found the other day, I am so excited. Again, I want to play the guessing game, but they can't talk back. She found the first episode-- the missing first episode for this show.
Gin Stephens: And it's funny. It was in my email. I sorted my email between the two of us. I was like, in the intermittent fasting email box that I've got and I sorted it from oldest to newest, because I wanted to look back and I was actually looking for something else. I was looking for a different document and apparently, [laughs] Melanie had sent me the audio file for Episode 1 after she edited it for me to listen to and there it was. I'm like, "What?"
Melanie Avalon: That is so crazy.
Gin Stephens: I didn't know I had that in my email. I didn't even know, I mean, email from 2017.
Melanie Avalon: Gin's excited when she emailed me and texted me at the same time to check my email. [laughs]
Gin Stephens: I forwarded it.
Melanie Avalon: I know that will be very, very exciting for listeners, because we get questions all the time about the mysterious missing Episode number 1, which I started listening to it. Actually, need to finish listening to it. I told you this already, Gin, but we sound so young. I think I sound so much younger. Did you listen back?
Gin Stephens: I did. I listened to it. I didn't listen to the whole thing. I just listen to a little bit of it.
Melanie Avalon: It's like how Taylor Swift rerecording all of her music. You can tell her voice is older. You can hear it in the voice. In any case, we're trying to decide what to do with it. We're thinking of releasing it as an episode, but instead, we thought we would give it to the people who really, really want it, and also help support the show with reviews and the transition. If you would like to receive and listen to the mysterious missing Episode number 1, the first episode of this show, super easy. What you can do is, if you've written a review for the show The Intermittent Fasting Podcast on iTunes, take a screenshot of that. If you've already written one, you just need to update it, because you can go and update your review to include this one piece of criteria, which I'm about to tell you or you can write a new review and include this one piece of criteria that I'm about to tell you, and take a screenshot of that, and email it to us.
What we'd love to see in the review is what you are looking forward to with Cynthia on board, what you'd like to learn from her, what you're excited about. We just would love to hear your thoughts on that. That will help in so many ways. It will help us see, what you're thinking with where the show is headed, so we can incorporate that into the show. It'll help welcome Cynthia, because she's definitely coming on to, we've had the show for five years. That's a big transition. Those reviews really do help so much and then it helps us thank you for the views and then you guys get to listen to the series Episode number 1 will actually directly email it to you. So, to do that, send a screenshot of your updated old review or your new review to email@example.com and just make the subject: "iTunes review." Thank you in advance.
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Melanie Avalon: Just speaking of gratitude and Gin had mentioned our assistance, we do have a really, really wonderful team. It's not just me and Gin. I think that's another misconception about podcasts, Gin, that not that they're not a lot of work, but I don't think people realize that--
Gin Stephens: Oh, there's a ton of details, a ton of them.
Melanie Avalon: It's a job.
Gin Stephens: So much to do. You have to check each episode. Someone has to listen to the whole thing after it's been edited to make sure that there's not anything weird. For example, the most recent episode of Intermittent Fasting Stories that I have someone who listens to them and writes the show notes, there was some weird noise at a certain point in it. I had to send it back to the editor team and say, "At this exact point, you got to take this weird noise out." That's time, it takes so much time all these things from uploading, writing the show notes to everything.
Melanie Avalon: This show goes through three check stages. It goes to our main editors, who edit it altogether and add in the ads and stuff and then it goes to our show note creator Brianna. She edits a little bit more, and make show notes, and then it goes to Tamara, who listens to it for what Gin just said to make sure that nothing slipped through. We also have on our team, our assistant, Sharon and she actually just coauthored a book with Nancy. And I should have asked her how Nancy says her last name. Nancy DuCharme or DuCharme. It's D-U-C-H-A-R-M-E. Oh, my goodness. Sharon had sent me this book. It's called The Lifechanger Cancer-Fighting Cookbook: Learn How to Improve the Odds for a Full Recovery Using This Keto Based Program. I started reading it last night, because I wanted to talk about it on the show and promote it on all my socials. It blew me away. It's incredible. If you have cancer, if you have friends or family with cancer, or if you just want to learn more about cancer, this book, I'm so, so impressed and grateful with what they've created. It's very scientific, very nuanced. It dives really deep into the mechanics of cancer, things that affect it, things like HDAC inhibitors, and genetics, and ketones, and specifically, how a ketogenic diet can be a modality and fighting against cancer, because Nancy's hypothesis is that, when you treat cancer with just one modality, so just chemotherapy or something like that, then there's the potential that cancer can adapt to that and actually grow stronger that it can possibly be better to attack it from multiple avenues.
It was interesting because I'd actually just been listening to, I don't know if it was a Peter Attia episode or something. And the person there was talking about the same concept. She talks about the importance of diet and making sure that you're following a diet that is constantly supporting, you're fighting cancer. And this is a cookbook, because she has another book called Lifechanger: How to Starve Cancer Using Metabolic Strategies & Deep Therapeutic Ketosis. That's the deeper dive into the science of all of it. This is her follow-up cookbook, which like I said, approachably and briefly recaps the science, and the reasoning, and the game plan, and then it has the recipes created by Sharon, which just look amazing. Definitely, definitely get this book. I cannot recommend it enough. We will put a link to in the show notes. Congrats, Sharon and Nancy. You've done a really, really wonderful, beautiful job. I did want to plug that. So, we were debating on, if we were going to do anything else "special for this episode," but we decided just have our normal episode per usual.
Gin Stephens: Although, I will say, there was one that I was like, "Hey, let's leave that one for Cynthia" [laughs] already. We all have our areas of expertise and that's the beauty of it. We do not all have to be experts on the same exact things.
Melanie Avalon: This is true.
Gin Stephens: All right. Our first question is from Leila, and Leila, she is actually the person who guessed it was going to be Cynthia.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, really? That's so funny.
Gin Stephens: Ah-huh. She's in that group. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Wow, this was meant to be.
Gin Stephens: It's not funny. That is a coincidence that wasn't planned at all. This question literally just came in. You can tell when I read it, but it just came in. The subject is: "AvalonX timing, B12, vegetarian." Leila says, "Good morning, lovely ladies. I have a question about AvalonX serrapeptase, B12, and vegetarianism. I've been fasting for three years, April 6th Is my fastaversary." Hooray. "My fast links have run the gamut over that time. I've done lots of window timings and fast links, including a couple month long rounds of ADF and I've settled into 24 fairly nicely at this point with some longer fasts sprinkled throughout every once in a while. At my lowest weight, I was 157 pounds. I'm 5'4". While that's not my ideal size, yet, it is a significant loss. As I started at 272 pounds with deadly inflammatory markers and was always so tired, I doze off on my commute home, and could never enjoy evenings with my sons, because I would need to go to bed." I'm going to say something about Leila here. I've been following her progress. She actually came on Intermittent Fasting Stories a long time ago. But she is just solid muscle.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, wow, really?
Gin Stephens: Yeah, she is. She is very, very strong and even at 5'4", you would never guess in a minute, she reveals that she's weighed in at 164, but she is just solid muscle. She's a great example of body re-composition, and how you can be lean and very, very muscular, and the scale doesn't reflect that change in body composition. Anyway, I just have to throw that out there. She said, "Now, I have boundless energy, run nearly every day, and I'm getting ready to begin a weightlifting program." She's always done lots of stuff in to build muscle. I know that about her. She said, "I've had a bit of stress recently. My mother is in her early 60s and has dementia so badly. She's in a nursing home already, and I've had to take conservatorship over her, and I'm doing the same for one of my adult sons, who has a brain injury. I weighed in this morning at 164 pounds. I can feel the thickness in my middle, so I'm attributing it to stress and increased cortisol at this point, and just giving myself grace.
My question is on supplement timing. I am a morning eater. I usually wake around 4 AM, have a glass of water with one AvalonX serrapeptase, and then drink my black coffee. First question. Is it okay to have a cup of black coffee within minutes of taking the serrapeptase? I know the supplement is coded in a way that makes it open in the intestines and I wonder if I'm speeding up the opening before it reaches my intestines by drinking coffee with it." Do you want to just answer that first?
Melanie Avalon: Yes. This is a great question. And also, I'm glad she brought this up, because it's something to clarify, because I've been talking historically a lot. Backtracking really quickly. Serrapeptase is my first supplement that I launched with my AvalonX line with MD Logic. It's a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. You take it in the fasted state, it breaks down problematic proteins. It can really help your body with anything, where there is your body responding to these problematic proteins. That's why it can help clear allergies, reduce brain fog, enhance wound healing, help reduce inflammation. Studies have shown it may reduce even cholesterol and amyloid plaque. Serrapeptase is not the same thing as nattokinase, but that's another enzyme that people often take that's very similar and I was reading a book last night. Oh, I think Gin I told you, did I tell you that I actually, finally booked the Fiber Fueled, guy?
Gin Stephens: Oh, I love him. Will, whose last name I can't pronounce. It starts with a B. It's long and has a W and Z. [laughs] I don’t know. I love him, though. He's also now on the board of ZOE. Did you know that?
Melanie Avalon: That's actually how I was able to lock him down.
Gin Stephens: And he lives in Charleston? I'm a huge fan of his. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm really excited to interview him. Yeah, I was thinking of you, because I remember you're a huge fan of his book. He was talking about nattokinase in his book and he was pointing out how nattokinase has all of these anti-inflammatory, anti-hypertensive, cholesterol reducing, all of these different things. He was saying it was-- and he listed all these pharmaceuticals. I'm not saying serrapeptase is a pharmaceutical, but he was saying how nattokinase was a statin, and aspirin, and heparin, and all these different things all in one, which is an interesting way to think about it. But in any case, so, back to serrapeptase, which actually is appropriate that we're talking about that, because that was also one of the other uncanny, weird things that Gin and I connected on in the beginning. What are the odds Gin that--?
Gin Stephens: Well, I know. One person recommended it to me when I was talking about having fibroids. I think this is in my very first Facebook group I mentioned it, and it was just really there were just a few of us in there, and we were talking about personal stuff before the group got big, and she's like, "Oh, serrapeptase helps with fibroids." I'm like, "Oh, I'd never even heard of it." So, I'm like, "Well, let me try it" and I started taking it.
Melanie Avalon: And what's crazy as Gin was self-proclaimed like, not big on supplements, where me, I was into all the biohacking and lots of supplements, but it was my one go-to supplement that I've been probably taking the longest, and it was one of the only, if the only supplement that Gin was taking. I think I remember the moment on the podcast when we realized that, where I mentioned it. I remember I was sitting. It's crazy. In any case, the thing that needed to clear up was, I have been saying that the serrapeptase needed an enteric coating to reach the small intestine, so that it can properly be absorbed, because it is a very delicate enzyme and it will be destroyed in the stomach acid and that is correct. The caveat is that, enteric coatings, because you have two options. You can use an enteric coating or you can use an acid resistant capsule. Enteric coatings often have problematic plastics and things in them that you don't want. I promise you, when you look at your supplement, if it says enteric coating, it normally doesn't say what the enteric coating is made out of. So, I avoid enteric coatings and our AvalonX uses an acid resistant capsule. But to answer your question, Leila, coffee is completely fine. So, coffee is actually-- Oh, this is a good question for you, Gin. Do you know the pH of coffee?
Gin Stephens: I cannot remember which are higher, higher acids or bases. I know seven is the pH of water. I'm going to guess it's going to be either direction. I can't remember which way is acid, which way is base. But I'm going to say it's either a 5 or an 8.
Melanie Avalon: So, higher numbers are bases, lower numbers are more acidic.
Gin Stephens: That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't certain. So, then I'm going to guess that it is a six, but I could be totally wrong. That's just my hunch.
Melanie Avalon: You're closer before to a five. You said five the first time. Yeah.
Gin Stephens: Oh, that's what I meant.
Melanie Avalon: You're actually closer than me. I actually thought it was going to be more acidic. I thought it was going to be a 4 or 3.
Gin Stephens: Well, because we tend to think things are way worse than they are. Everyone's like, "Oh my God, coffee. It's so acidic" and I'm like, "It's not really that bad."
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Even by itself, since the serrapeptase is in an acid resistant capsule, the coffee, because it is acidic, it's actually going to make the capsule not break down. Then on top of that, once your stomach acid, which is much more acidic, your stomach acid is around a pH of 3. When you take the serrapeptase with the coffee and your stomach acid, it will actually keep the capsule from breaking down and then when it reaches the small intestine, which is alkaline, it will open up there. So, you're good. You're good. Awesome.
Gin Stephens: All right. You ready for me to keep reading?
Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm.
Gin Stephens: All right. "In addition to serrapeptase, I also take a vegan B12 supplement. The brand is Live Conscious and it is 100% methylcobalamin." I don't know how you say that. Can you say that, Melanie?
Melanie Avalon: Methylcobalamin.
Gin Stephens: There you go. I've never heard anybody say that. But when you said it, that sounded just right. I'm just going to leave it there. B12, 5,000 micrograms per one milliliter. Leila, thank you for making me say all these hard things. [laughs] "The ingredients are water, glycerin, and organic citrus extract. Barely a hint of flavor, but I'm well versed in the clean fast and understand the citrus extract breaks my fast. I take it about an hour or two after the serrapeptase, then wait about 30 minutes before eating my meal. I know that's a lot of details, but I'm wondering a couple of things. Do you think I need to wait 30 minutes after I take it to eat? I've heard it is water soluble and I should, but there are no directions on the bottle. It's sublingual liquid. I'm around 18 hours fasted when I started my workouts and hit 20 by the time I'm finished and showered for work."
Melanie Avalon: I don't think you need to wait an entire 30 minutes, especially if it's sublingual. If it's sublingual, it's supposed to be absorbing under your tongue. If there aren't directions on the bottle, I would not stress about it too much.
Gin Stephens: All right. She said, "I've also battled psoriasis for 20 years, which has significantly reduced with a plant-based diet. But I do get flares, particularly, after eating highly refined flours from conventional bakeries and sugar. I'm trying to bake more at home with almond flour and that tends to help although, I'm wondering about the whole grains and links to psoriasis. I've also read that nightshade vegetables can cause flares, but haven't figured out which it is for me yet. I have not done an elimination protocol yet to find out as I am one who can fall right back into restrictive diet mentality at the drop of a hat. So, I try to be very careful in my approach to things."
Melanie Avalon: Fortunately, elimination protocols really can be game changers, if you're trying to pinpoint a food that's not working for you. I think what's really important to understand here, because I understand that you have a tendency to fall back into restrictive diet mentality. I think if you are able to step back, find an elimination protocol that you want to follow, and there are a lot of different ones out there. I like Dr. Will Cole's protocol. He wrote The Inflammation Spectrum. I've had him on my show for that book. You could check that out. But there are a lot of ones. You can just google AIP protocol and follow that. But maybe if you step back, and give it a timeline, and this is the good thing about it. I think a lot of people will try elimination protocols pretty casually and they'll just say, "I'm going to do an elimination protocol, I'm going to remove these foods, and then I'm going to reintroduce them." By not giving it a timeline and giving it specifics, it can make it seem like a more ongoing restrictive diet mentality that you might be jumping into compared to a plan that has a beginning, it has an end, it has a reintroduction protocol, and it's very specific, and it's not meant to be forever.
I think if you can separate that in your mind that doing an elimination protocol, because this is the purpose of elimination protocols. Because people often will do elimination diets with this restrictive diet mentality, and get stuck there, and can't come back out, and it's the very issue that you're talking about. That's not the way it's meant to be. It's supposed to be a flashlight and to show you where you're having your issues. I do want to emphasize too that I think a lot of people don't properly do the reintroduction period. They'll do the elimination and then they'll again casually approach how to do the reintroduction. But in all the different protocols, it's very specific. You're supposed to reintroduce one thing at a time. It depends on who you're following, but one thing at a time, you give it a certain amount of days, you look for symptoms. Amy Myers has a really good protocol as well. We'll put links to all of this in the show notes.
Gin Stephens: Yeah. JJ Virgin has a great one, The Virgin Diet. That was one of the original, if not the original elimination protocol.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, okay. Awesome.
Gin Stephens: I heard her talking about it last week and I think she was one of the very first that actually had a book out there about how to do it for-- I'm not saying that doctors hadn't been doing it, but yeah, The Virgin Diet.
Melanie Avalon: We'll put a link to all of those. Leila, I encourage you to look around, pick one, and then tell yourself, "This is not like a diet. This is not a thing I'm going to be doing for life. This is a very specific protocol to find the foods that are your flares for your autoimmune conditions and psoriasis." I just want to clarify, because psoriasis is considered to be autoimmune. I honestly don't know that there's an alternative. If your goal is to find the foods that are causing this, there's not really any other way to do that.
Gin Stephens: Other than an elimination protocol.
Melanie Avalon: Yep. Any other thoughts about that?
Gin Stephens: No. I think just the whole idea that it is not-- Leila is somebody who can fall under restrictive diet mentality. I have seen her do it and I've also seen her come back out of it. The thing to keep in mind is that, you're not doing it as a diet. You're doing it for science just when we did ZOE, we did it for science and we weren't. When you ate the muffins, you ate them for science.
Melanie Avalon: I was just about to say, it's like ZOE. It's just a little bit slightly longer.
Gin Stephens: You're not manipulating what you're eating for the point of trying to lose weight. You're manipulating what you're eating like, "I'm not going to eat these foods and I'm going to see how my body reacts." It's nothing diety about it really and I know a lot of people use elimination diets to try to lose weight, but that would not be at all the purpose here.
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Gin Stephens: All right. She says, "One last question about AvalonX. I was hoping to take a second pill later in the day. I mentioned I had deadly high inflammatory markers in the beginning of my journey. While they were perfect a year ago when I tested, it's probably time to test them again. How long after I eat is it safe to take it again? I've been waiting around six hours. I'm usually done eating by noon most days. So, 6 PM or so feels okay. I do sometimes have to take melatonin however. If I take serrapeptase at 6 PM, is it safe to take a melatonin shortly after?"
Melanie Avalon: Yes, six hours will definitely be fine, Leila. The recommendation on our website is actually to wait two hours. So, you'll be good. Of course, the longer you wait, probably the better, but you should be good. And listeners, if you have questions, we actually have an FAQ all for this. Just go to avalonx.us/faq.
Gin Stephens: All right. Finally, she said, "Gin knows me in real life. Huh, so, she's probably rolling her eyes at me right now saying, "Oh, Leila." I'm not rolling my eyes, Leila. [laughs] Look, I love all the kids in the classroom, even the one with a lot of questions. I love the one with a lot of questions. Leila says, "I know, I know, figuring out all the things ha ha. Anyway, love you both. I've listened to every episode of this show and you've been my sisters, confidants, teachers, and friends through this journey, and it has been a wild ride trying all the things. I've done ZOE, then served as their first retests subject. I've tried using a glucometer, had a breath ketone meter, I've done red light, infrared sauna, all the things. I have appreciated and trusted your expertise throughout the entire process and I'm still here going strong and muscling through my little setbacks here and there. Thank you for all you do and I'm anxiously awaiting your response. Thank you," Leila from Iowa.
Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Well, thank you, Leila. That brings everything full circle with her sign off at the end there.
Gin Stephens: It really does. It really does. All the things, Leila is an experimenter. She's very much about her study of one, and she's a biohacker, [laughs] and she wants to do it right, heard all those questions.
Melanie Avalon: All right. One more question. I wanted to end with a question that was the spirit of Gin. This is a Gin question. The subject is: "Delaying certain foods." Julie says, "Hi, ladies, I found your podcast very early on in my IF journey and it has been such a help to me, especially learning about the clean fast. I started in June 2019 and within about two months, I lost around 21 pounds in weight. I then went on holiday, put on a few pounds, and since then have been losing and regaining the same five to six pounds. I knew my window was getting longer and I was having more two meal days than one meal a day. Switching things up again a couple of weeks ago, managing to go around 19 to 21 hours fasting and having a window of between two to five hours. One meal a day five out of the seven days. Still no weight loss, no more shrinking or getting smaller, in fact.
My IBS, which initially got better seems to have gotten worse, and I am bloated, and experiencing intense cravings for sweet things. I'm so disappointed as this seemed to get easier at first, but now, it is very challenging. I wonder if I need to delay sugar and/or highly refined carbs until I lose some more weight and get rid of this GI distress, but I'm fearful that this will just bring back that diet mentality, which I have been so pleased to have shrugged off for the first time in 30 years. I'm 50 and just going through perimenopause. I feel hormonal a lot of the time, which doesn't help with the sweet cravings. Am I expecting too much of the fasting? Expecting to lose weight, get smaller while still eating so much junk during my window. I need you to tell me straight if I can't have my cake and eat it. Thanks," Julie.
Gin Stephens: Well, Julie, we do not need to tell you straight, because your body is telling you straight. No matter what, I say or Melanie says, your body is telling you that what you're doing right now is not working for you. Here's how you know it. You're not losing weight, your IBS has gotten worse, you're more bloated, and your cravings are intense. Your body is sending you very powerful signals that what you're doing right now is not working well for your body. Now, there's something in there that is really important and I'm glad you included it that you're 50 and that you're in perimenopause right now. I'm going to be honest with you. Our bodies change when we go through this very important hormonal change of life. If you could "get away with" I don't know that sounds kind of diety, but what we could do when we were younger is not what we could do as we get older. That is true. We can complain about it all we want, but it is just the fact that as our bodies change, we have to respond to these changes. I've really had to change the amount of alcohol I drink now versus before. I used to be just fine having a glass of wine every day and then sleeping great. Now, my hormones are different, I can't do that. I'm not mad about it, I just accept it. You have to accept that your body is changing.
You talked about, you use the words, junk. Ultra-processed foods really are not ideal for our bodies. If you haven't read Clean(ish), you may want to take a look at that and just see. I understand you don't want to bring back diet mentality, but that's assuming that, if you get rid of what you call junk, that everything else is just like gross food and you don't want to eat. But that is where you need to shift your mindset. Because once you start shifting towards real food, that stuff that you're calling junk, the sugar and the highly refined carbs that you're talking about that you said you're eating a lot of, those things are not as appealing once you really start eating real foods and feel good. The key is eat real foods that are delicious. You eat real foods that are delicious, that's not dieting. That's not diet mentality. That's nourishing your body. That's eating like a grown up, because you know your body needs those nutrients. Does that mean you can never have sugar or ultra-processed foods again? Of course, not. But if you know that that is making up a huge amount of what you're eating-- If you had a small child in your life, you wouldn't just feed it that junk, you would nourish that child. Nourish yourself the same way you would nourish a child. And feed yourself nutritious foods that you love, that are delicious. You're not going on a diet, you're eating to respond to what will make you feel better, you want to get rid of that bloating, get rid of all that intense craving. That's what I would recommend.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think that's great and I think it speaks to one of, I think the biggest-- I don't know if it's a misconception or it's an association that people make that is a very small, subtle nuance, but it's so profound. It's that people think that saying no to foods, because they are dieting or they want to lose weight is the same thing as saying no to foods that because they don't make them feel well, that if you are restricting foods, that it's always the exact same mentality or reasoning behind it. That's just not true.
Gin Stephens: Like Leila said, she mentioned that, she didn't want to get in diet mentality with an elimination protocol. Same exact thing, but that's not what it is.
Melanie Avalon: It's so common. I think what it is, it's more of a triggering situation than being the same thing. People, who have dieted before, it looks the same on the outside to not eat a food. If you're not eating a food for whatever reason, because you want to lose weight or because it doesn't make you feel good, objectively from the outside, it's like, "Oh, I'm not eating this. I can't have this food or I'm not eating this food." It can trigger the reasons for not eating foods that are not the same reasons now. Not eating a food, because we want to lose weight and feel like you can't have the food, and the food has morality, and you're a bad person, if you eat it, and if you eat it, you'll gain weight, that's an entirely different mindset and reasoning than not eating a food, because it makes you feel unwell, because it's not doing good things for your body. So, choosing not to eat foods that don't make you feel well and don't support you nutritionally is not diet mentality.
Gin Stephens: It's powerful is what it is. It's an empowering moment to say, when I decided that French fries that I get at a restaurant made my stomach hurt, so, I'm not going to eat them. That's me having the power to say, "I don't want to have a stomachache."
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Actually, this is the thing that is similar between both of those. It's letting the food not have power over you.
Gin Stephens: Right. You have the power. You're not dieting. You're helping your body feel good.
Melanie Avalon: Exactly. I feel there are a few different big misconceptions out there and I think this is one of them. We could do a whole episode on this. Like one would be that you have to be low carb to lose weight. I think this would be one. There's quite a few.
Gin Stephens: Well, I think that was a great question for us to end with. I have spent a great episode and again, thank you so much, Melanie for everything.
Melanie Avalon: Likewise. For listeners. If you'd like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email firstname.lastname@example.org or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. Again, if you would like to receive the first episode of this show ever, send us a screenshot of your old iTunes review or new review. Just make sure that the review includes what you are looking forward to or excited to experience with Cynthia coming on board. Oh, yes, the timeline of that really quick for listeners. Next episode is going to be a very special episode with actually my partner Scott at MD Logic. We're going to answer actually a lot of questions about the AvalonX line and serrapeptase, and the upcoming magnesium, and all of those things. So, it's an intermission and then the episode after that will be Cynthia on board. So, Gin, thank you so much for the past five years. This has been such an incredible, beautiful, amazing journey. I'm so grateful.
Gin Stephens: 100% right back atcha.
Melanie Avalon: I'm grateful for our friendship, for the show and obviously, the good thing is, we'll still be here. So, we'll still be friends, we'll still be talking, and maybe we can bring you on the future for a guest episode. [laughs]
Gin Stephens: Maybe. I'll be open to that. I will not say no, I will not say never. [laughs] But yeah, everybody can still find me on Intermittent Fasting Stories or the Life Lesson Podcast. If you really want to know what I'm doing in life, Life Lessons is where to get it. [laughs] All right, signing off.
Melanie Avalon: The show notes for everything will be at ifpodcast.com/episode264.
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice. We're not doctors. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, theme music by Leland Cox. See you next week.
STUFF WE LIKE
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Gin's Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle
Feast Without Fear: Food and the Delay, Don't Deny Lifestyle
Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Clean Fast Protocol for Health, Longevity, and Weight Loss--Including the 21-Day FAST Start Guide
Clean(ish): Eat (Mostly) Clean, Live (Mainly) Clean, and Unlock Your Body's Natural Ability to Self-Clean
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Gin: GinStephens.com
Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com
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