Welcome to Episode 470 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
SHOW NOTES
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Featured Restaurant: The Cake Bake Shop
STUDIES:
Intermittent fasting for adults with overweight or obesity
Intermittent fasting may make little difference to weight loss, review finds
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 470 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 470 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing great. It's one of those days where finally over here, things are heating up, which I'm so glad about, you would not be very happy with at all.
Melanie Avalon
Heating up like busy wise, you mean temperature wise.
Barry Conrad
Well, busy wise and temperature wise, well, you'd like the busyness, but the temperature wise it's it was actually like 41 today, which for you, that's probably blistering, right?
Melanie Avalon
That's better than what it's been here. Like it's supposed to be in, I don't even, I'm not going to talk about it. It's like too hot. It's too hot. And everybody's so excited and yeah, whatever.
Barry Conrad
They're excited that things are heating up. Yeah. That's so funny. How's your day been so far? How's your week been so far?
Melanie Avalon
It's good. Well, I was going to start with one thing, but we were talking right before this. So should I explain this sauna situation? Speaking of heat.
Barry Conrad
Yes, definitely.
Melanie Avalon
Which, by the way, do you do sauna?
Barry Conrad
We have a sauna in our apartment building, not an infrared one, one of those ones, but like a sauna, sort of like the OG, you know, steam. I do love saunas. It just makes you feel invigorated. You sweat out all like lots of toxins. You feel lighter.
Melanie Avalon
know what I mean? And the research on saunas is insane, like the benefits of saunas. And because it's one of the few so this is what's really cool about it. I'm literally just going I didn't plan this and in prep this I'm just going off of like memory, the cardiovascular benefits and the longevity benefits, you're basically getting a cardiovascular workout. And it's one of the few, maybe the only that might be too big of a statement, healthy lifestyle intervention that they can control for the healthy user bias, meaning, like so many health related things that people do, there's the healthy user bias, which means it's hard to know how much it's actually doing because the type of people who do it tend to be healthy.
So like exercise or even like eating, okay, like meat is like an anti healthy user bias because people who eat meat tend to follow less healthy lifestyles. So it's hard to make conclusions about meat, for example, or really any health intervention. However, that said, the Scandinavian countries, they all sauna, like everybody does and not just like the rich people, like everybody has access to saunas, essentially, it's like such a part of their life. So we can actually study the benefits of saunas independent of social economic status, which can weigh into things and independent of healthy user bias. And the data from again, these like like Norway and the Scandinavian countries, it's overwhelming the benefits of sauna for the heart, for longevity, mostly part in longevity, that was a lot. But in any case, I can't even imagine like not doing every day like sweating out all the toxins. And but to answer your question, because we're talking before this, he wanted to know the setup that I have. So I love sunlight and they make infrared saunas, cabin units, I have they also make a solo, which it's like a hard dome shell that you lay down inside up. So it's not a sauna blanket, because I'm not a fan of those. It's basically a sauna that wraps around you while you lay down, but your head is outside of it, which I really like for two reasons. One, it means that you can get hotter because your head is out. So you can actually get your body hotter. And then two, I can like do work, because I have my hands and head outside of it. So I like do work on my phone in the sauna.
Barry Conrad
I'm trying to picture the visual, I really need to see a photo of this.
Melanie Avalon
a picture. I can take a picture because I basically get I got this like iPhone or like phone on Amazon they make like a phone bendy arm holder clippy thing so I clip it to the side so it holds the phone like over my head and then I like lay there and I like do research and I do emails and I do Instagram for work.
That's great.
Barry Conrad
And it's good for your shoulders as well because you're raising your arms.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'm going to start thinking about that. Normally, I just complain to myself about my arms getting tired. But yeah, that is a good, good reframe.
Barry Conrad
I went straight to the sculpting part like, oh, it's good for your shoulders.
Melanie Avalon
It's where I do all of my reading of notes and underlining before shows as well. Oh, listener, so Sun Layton, I love them.
If you tell them I sent you, they give you, they hook you up. They give you a discount and stuff.
Barry Conrad
That's super interesting. Another thing that now that's really interesting and curious to me, I saw this article.
Did you see the new BBC article about intermittent fasting? What they were saying? No. I'm going to say that to you. It's like pretty new. Yeah. It was like a day ago and they basically, I had, I have a bone to pick with this article.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, intermittent fasting may make little difference to weight loss review fines. Is this the study we're going to talk about?
Barry Conrad
No, it's not, but it's sort of a segue, but it's basically the long and the short of it, everyone and Mel. I saw this pop up because I don't entirely agree with how it's being framed because the headline sort of suggests IF isn't any better than traditional calorie restriction situation for weight loss.
And if we're talking strictly about like a number on a scale for a very short period of time from what it says, that part's not shocking. But the article focuses heavily on the fat loss and doesn't really dive into everything else that we know IF does, like all the other stuff, instant sensitivity, blood glucose regulation, good sleep, blood pressure, hunger hormones, all those amazing biomarkers that a person can have in a metabolic health with massive scale movement. And then there are the non-scale victories. So fewer cravings, more stable energy, less grazing. I feel like you can't just group all of that into one bucket and say, well, weight loss wasn't dramatically better, so it sort of doesn't work. So that's, you know, those sort of headlines that do that. What do you think of that?
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yes. So this is so interesting. So the study that they're referencing came out, whoa, literally yesterday.
Okay. Okay. I thought maybe it came out like a week ago and they were just not covering it, but no, literally, well, yesterday as of this writing and it's intermission fasting for adults with overweight or obesity is the title. It's published in Cochrane Library and they, it's a review. So they looked at 22 studies with 19, 1,995 participants and they were looking at intermittent fasting's effects on weight loss, quality of life, participant satisfaction, diabetes status, and adverse events. So I really want to read the full thing because I'm really curious. Okay. Before I talk about that, my initial thoughts are very similar to what you were saying, which is you're so right about the headline. So say that they did the study and they're comparing intermittent fasting to calorie restriction for weight loss and they find that it's equal. You could just as easily have made the headline, intermittent fasting creates equal weight loss as calorie restriction without calorie restriction. You could literally make a good headline from it or you could say intermittent fasting rivals calorie restriction for weight loss. Literally, completely true because it said that they both resulted in weight loss and that would be a positive spin on it.
Barry Conrad
Exactly. It's the whole thing of different fasting protocols get lumped together, timing, food quality matters as well, sleep and strength training matters.
I feel like you can't just, well, people clearly can because they do, but it's unreasonable to lump everything into one bucket and say, and the metric of its success is just weight loss. You know what I mean? It's very interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Well, okay, so here, here's where it gets even more interesting. So I'm dying to read the full article. It's not available yet, so I will have to like circle back and try to track it down. But because my other initial thought was yes, intermittent fasting might be equal to calorie restriction for weight loss, which is awesome. And except it's easier to do, like people who do calorie restriction, people find that very hard to do compared to intermittent fasting, where people find a window that works for them, they find it easy to do. So that's a massive difference.
That's like getting the benefits of calorie restriction without the misery of calorie restriction. That said, the wrench in what I'm saying right there is they did look at quality of life. And they said that, which I would assume would include that, include what I'm talking about, like how, how easy it is or not. And they said that it was a, it was similar for quality of life, but they don't say in the app, okay, so here's what's interesting. So I just listed everything they tested, right? Which was quality of life, okay, participant satisfaction, that would also relate to what I was just saying. They don't mention the results on that. Diabetes status, they don't mention the results on that. Adverse events, they do. So the only results they mentioned in the abstract, this is why I need to read the whole thing, but in the abstract, they mentioned intermittent fasting has little to no difference and weight loss may have little to no effect on body weight, but it's uncertain may result in no difference in quality of life, may have no effect on adverse events, but it's uncertain.
So why did they not tell in the abstract what they found about participant satisfaction and diabetes status? Were those positive? Because if though I swear, if those were positive and then they don't put them in the abstract and they only put the negatives, that will be wild. Okay. I don't know if that's the case because I haven't read the full thing, but if that is the case, I am going to be so upset because that would mean that they literally picked out the negatives and put in the abstract. But again, I don't know because I haven't read the full thing. They said further research is needed to address participant satisfaction and diabetes status. So why are you not telling us what you found there? Why are you not telling us these studies? Oh, these studies must consider different populations where obesity and overweight have different burdens like those from low and middle income countries and high income countries, men or women separately and different body mass index categories. Okay. I'm just making, I'm just guessing, but I would, I'm going to guess that with diabetes and participant satisfaction, that they found something positive. That's my guess. I could be wrong.
Barry Conrad
I hope so. It's also one of those things that makes me think, is it a case of somebody genuinely, for example, someone like you and I, or someone who is really enthusiastic about intermittent fasting, wrote this article or presented a study or findings, and then the editor or the powers that be who have the final say, do they go back and say, no, this is too... You know, I imagine it's not just the writer, you know what I mean?
Which is also interesting.
Melanie Avalon
and the BBC article.
Barry Conrad
or just how many hands.
Melanie Avalon
Or yeah, go into it.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, rather than just the initial, the initial could have been much more positive in many cases.
Melanie Avalon
The study has one, two, three. There's 10 people who wrote this, the actual study. I am dying to know what it actually found about the other two. Okay. I'm going to stop myself from thinking about this.
Yes. I think this is just a great example where even reading the entirely negative takeaways from the abstract, who funded this? No funding. Okay. Even taking away the only the negatives, the quote negatives from the abstract, there's actually nothing negative here. Like, okay, so fasting is equal to calorie restriction. Okay. Like, isn't that a good thing that you're losing weight from it? Wait, isn't that a good thing? I'm confused.
Barry Conrad
It's more like it should be a magic, magic pill that just, if calorie restriction makes you lose 10 kgs in a month or whatever it is, then fasting should make you lose 100 kgs in a month. Like, I don't know what people expect to report or find.
Melanie Avalon
I know. It's literally like, okay, I'm like a broken record at this point. But literally, you could walk up to somebody and be like, guess what? This study just found that fasting works as well as calorie restriction for weight loss. Yay.
And instead, it's like all this negative stuff. That's so interesting. We're gonna have to take a note and we're gonna have to track down the full study and see what it found on the diabetes and the participant satisfaction part.
Definitely. I need to set up alerts for articles like this. Do you have alerts set up for stuff like this?
Barry Conrad
I don't, but I just, I'm always looking for, I'll just type it in to Google and just find, actually that's a good idea, thank you for that tip, I should do that.
Melanie Avalon
Me too. Thank you, Melanie, for the tip to me because I need to do that too.
Thank you for inspiring the tip to come to my head. Yeah. So listeners, we would love to hear what you guys think on fasting versus calorie restriction and how it is portrayed in the news and in the studies and in the abstract.
Barry Conrad
all of the things.
Melanie Avalon
Well, shall we jump into things? Do you want to do a study or do you want that to be our study for this time?
Barry Conrad
We can do that for the study. I had a study that relates to that, but I think it's longer to get into, so I reckon we can save that. But TBC, everyone. TBC.
Melanie Avalon
Perfect. And we will circle back on what we find out.
I want to see what was the final... I always love reading the first and last sentence of an article. So the first sentence of the BBC article was, intermittent fasting may not help people who are overweight or obese lose weight, a large review suggests, may not help people. Intermittent fasting likely results in little to no difference compared to regular dieting advice. Okay, wait. So they're comparing it to regular diets, little or no difference in percentage from baseline weight loss compared to no intervention. Oh, they're saying, okay. So their study is saying, I take back some of what I said. They're saying that, okay, that doesn't make much sense. So how can it both be little to no difference in weight loss, both for people on regular dieting advice and also for people who are not dieting?
Barry Conrad
Hmm.
Melanie Avalon
So they're saying nothing works then, if that's the case.
Barry Conrad
Nothing works everyone, letting you know this is the headline.
Melanie Avalon
Their conclusion in the study, compared to regular dietary advice, intermittent fasting may result in little to no difference in weight loss. These approaches did not differ in achieving weight loss, producing no clinically meaningful changes.
Okay, so they're saying that nothing works.
Barry Conrad
eventually.
Melanie Avalon
So maybe you can't be like, yay, it's equal to calorie restriction because they're saying that doesn't even work either.
Barry Conrad
Again, it makes me think about, you know, how we joked about having certain people on the show to talk about or to debate about the articles that we didn't like they wrote. We'd like to talk to you on the show and just like go ahead to tell with you about this. It's just so fascinating.
Melanie Avalon
Do you think this is, okay, so, you know, I was saying, I read the first and last sentence. The last sentence of the BBC article is, they quote this associate professor at the University College of London. And he says that it, this is not the last sentence, but he says it provides a clear indication that intermittent fasting offers little benefit.
Oh my goodness. Little benefit? What? How, okay, how, like this is what you, what you opened with Barry. How is there little benefit when people lose their food cravings, get a healthy relationship with food, get back more time during the day, get more flexibility in their diet and their lifestyle, have all these non-scale benefits, like it's helped my skin, my mood, my energy levels. We know it helps like insulin regulation. I'm going to, my study that I talk about next week, I'm going to talk about a really fascinating effect of intermittent fasting that people don't talk about very often or like ever. That's just such, and to say that it provides clear indication that intermittent fasting offers little, little benefit. He says, he says, this is, he, he says, this is another example of a misalignment between public perception and the scientific evidence. I cannot. Ah, man. Okay. I do like this. So then the article, the authors of the article say, it is widely accepted that many people find intermittent fasting, a good way to avoid putting on weight, although this wasn't researched in the review. It's also been linked to reduce cholesterol, blood sugar, and improve gut health by helping people to eat less. So I like that the article brought that in and then they say, this is what they end with. This is interesting. They say around 1.6 million adults in the UK are thought to be using injections such as wagobi and manjaro to lose weight, mostly bought through private prescriptions rather than on the NHS. A recent study found people who stop using the weight loss jabs can put weight back on four times faster than those who stop conventional dieting and exercising. So they end with tying it into GLP1 agonists.
Barry Conrad
Right. Nice little relation, but yeah, it's very interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm going to get off the soapbox now. Hopefully, I didn't entirely misrepresent when I was saying over and over that they were saying it's equal to calorie restriction because to clarify, they basically say nothing works is what that study finds.
So, oh, which I was trying to think of incentives. Wait a minute. Okay, not to be conspiratorial, but if you want an incentive to promote weight loss drugs, what would you do? What would you do? I would put out research showing that nothing works.
Barry Conrad
Wow.
Melanie Avalon
Do you get what I'm saying? Like I would do research showing that intermittent fasting doesn't work, that calorie restriction doesn't work, that dietary advice doesn't work, which is basically what this study says. It says that nothing works. That's the takeaway.
So I'm not saying that it's connected to anything, but do you hear what I'm saying?
Barry Conrad
I do. I think it's just a very fascinating... I wonder how this originated. Whose idea was it? What was the point? What's the end goal? This is what I want to say with this piece to take up precious real estate on BBC.
Was it really worth it? Did it do the job that you wanted it to do? And what was that goal to make people believe that nothing works or that intermittent fasting is redundant or that GLP1s are the way to go? What is the deal? Yeah, it wasn't clear.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's definitely a message that like nothing works. So except the weight loss drugs, which but it like it says at the end when you get off Them you regain the weight.
So you've got to stay on them
Barry Conrad
So, lose-lose. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, well on that note, shall we get into some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's answer some of our questions from our amazing listeners. The first one we have today is from Louise. Louise says, research shows you shouldn't eat four hours before bed, but I tend to do OMAD at dinner. So what times do you guys eat your last meals and any hacks to keep hunger at bay before bed? Melanie, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Thank you, Louise, for your question. Thanks for, you know, getting us off of this, at least off of my soapbox.
So I get asked this often by people all the time, because whenever I bring up that I do one meal a day, like when I'm meeting new people, and it's usually when I'm meeting them, like for drinks or something, and then I'm like, Oh, I do one meal a day. Oh, so when do you eat? I eat dinner. Oh, so you haven't eaten yet? No. Oh, so when do you eat? And then it's like, I've had that conversation so many times. And I'm always just like, after this, I eat late. I don't know. Yeah. When do you eat, Barry? You're one meal a day.
Barry Conrad
I like how you just threw the ball to me because like, I don't want to say the time, late, it's late. And also listeners to Louise, I should say, I've been in your position as well, all people have asked me now.
She's like, late, like she doesn't like to give up, it's just late, late, sometime later. But I usually, if I'm sort of home or I don't have to be anywhere, it's usually from 4.35 onwards. But if not, if it's a big full day, it could be late. I could be eating at like 9, 10, like it doesn't have to be four hours before I sleep. If I eat something too heavy or ultra processed or something like that that I don't normally eat for my body, then I might have restless sleep and not great quality sleep. But if I'm eating what I normally eat, it rarely matters. I don't think I even notice a difference one time I finish eating.
Melanie Avalon
It's funny because I was thinking if I were to eat at nine, that would be really early for me. Which I do do. I will be eating, I guess the earliest I eat is on the few times that I go out to a restaurant and eat dinner because then you have to eat earlier. So I always try to make us get the reservations for like eight o'clock, which I feel like is still socially appropriate.
And then you're not even, you know, then you're not eating your entree until like your entree. Then you're not eating your main until like 830 or nine o'clock. I'm like you, Barry. I just, I sleep well on a full stomach. Like I really do. It's like the whole like, like the lions on the savannah, you know, they have their hunt and then they take a nap. Right? That's what I do. But that said, kind of like the quote earlier about like public perception and research, I will say in general that the scientific research does support eating with a circadian rhythm that is earlier. And it does seem like consistency though is more important than that. So if, if we're looking at eating earlier versus later, it's probably better to eat earlier. However, what you can do consistently, like having a consistent rhythm is probably more important than having inconsistent, but some days earlier, unless you're playing around with fasting to get different fasting windows, kind of like with sleep where they say, you know, it's not good to like be going to bed really late and waking up late. But if you're doing that, you want to be doing that consistently. Like you want your body to have regular rhythms. So for you, Louise, you do one meal a day at dinner. I think if you're eating and you're feeling well and you're sleeping well, keep doing you. Don't worry as much about the whole research thing. It's kind of like going back to that study, like, okay, so that guy in that study, that guy in the article was saying that science isn't aligning with public perception. Well, what is actually, what actually works for public, for the public? That's important because if something's actually working and it doesn't match your interpretation of the science, then maybe we're not interpreting the science correctly. Just saying, do you have Hacksberry for keeping hunger at bay before bed?
Barry Conrad
making sure you have enough protein when you break your fast. I think it's really important that first meal, if you have an OMAD, then that meal should have a lot of protein in it. If you have two or three meals, make sure that you're getting enough in there because it's going to help keep you satiated and also have plenty of fiber in there, drink lots of water, have some wine in there. Make sure you're eating enough. That's what I'm getting at.
Don't deprive yourself. Don't fast during your eating window. Do you know what I mean? You've already done your long fast, so make sure you get enough nutrients in there and you'll be fine. You'll sleep like a baby.
Melanie Avalon
I agree so much. I like how you threw wine in there.
Have some wine in there. Yeah, I was going to say, that was the first thing I was going to say was making sure you're getting enough protein, making sure you're getting enough nutrients, so like nutrition, which a high protein diet tends to take care of a lot of that, especially if you're having an animal-based protein diet because it comes with so many nutrients along with it. But you want to make sure that your body has everything that it needs nutritionally so that you're not craving or seeking out foods to deal with that. And then if you're having cravings, ideally in the intermittent fasting pattern, when you find one that works for you, you'll be not hungry during your fast because you'll be fasting, you'll be running on your fat stores, and then you eat maybe a little hungry before your window. You eat. It's good. And then you shouldn't be really hungry after. The meal should be addressing all of that. So if you are having cravings or hunger, it's probably because you didn't eat enough, you didn't get enough protein, or you're still struggling with insulin sensitivity issues. So you can look at the macronutrients that you're eating. Maybe for you, it's better to go low carb, or maybe for you, it's better. Maybe you're low carb and it's better to go higher carb. I know for me in the past, I've switched between low carb, high carb, and when I switched from being low carb after years and years and years and I went high carb again, that actually helped my hunger levels. And then other things is you can do, you can think about to encourage insulin sensitivity after eating, assuming you're not eating and then going straight to bed like I do, you could go on a walk after. That's going to be good for supporting your digestion, supporting your insulin sensitivity, not keeping things. A lot of cravings, especially before bed, can be very mental. So the brain, this is so fascinating to me. So if you have things that spark cravings in you because of your emotional connection to them, whatever they may be, if they are in the house, your brain is going to know they're there and it's going to make you think about them and want them. So if there are things that are doing that for you, maybe it's better just don't keep those in the house and then you won't be laying there in bed because I know I've had this experience where I'm laying there in bed and I'm not actually hungry, but I'm thinking about that thing I have in the house that is a thing that I crave and that's all I can think about. But when it's not in the house, you don't think about it. So that's an option as well.
Barry Conrad
Out of sight, out of mind, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes. Oh and fiber. Fiber can help a lot of people too with satiety.
Oh yeah and as a quick tangent, sorry one more quick tangent. So burning your gut microbiome can be huge for this especially because the gut microbiome creates short-chain fatty acids which end up serving as signaling molecules to your body that tell your body that you're fed, basically that you have good nutrition. So I'm actually doing a lot of research into this right now like the whole role of short-chain fatty acids as signaling molecules from the gut microbiome. So following a diet that supports the gut microbiome so having foods again like fiber, polyphenol rich foods so like blueberries and you know berries and tea and I mean even wine has polyphenols, fermented foods, anything you can do to really support your gut microbiome then it's going to create those short-chain fatty acids. If you're curious there there's three types there's butonate, propionate and butyrate. They like I said they literally tell your body like we are fed, things are okay. They send a safety signal to your body so supporting your gut microbiome and we do love probiotic wise. We love P3OM. It's a probiotic that actually is proteolytic meaning it breaks down protein so it really helps my digestion. I find it really supportive of my microbiome. Barry you like it as well right?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. And honestly, I've said this before that even though my digestion is really good and my stomach's pretty robust, this has been amazing and I definitely feel a difference for sure.
I just had some today after having my beef.
Melanie Avalon
It's the probiotic I've been taking the longest, I think, probably. Yes, out of all probiotics. And it's the one I keep coming back to. Like if I stop taking it, I miss it and I bring it back.
So for that listeners, you can go to myoptimizers.com and use the code IFPODCAST15 to get 15% off. So that's B-I-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S.com and use the code IFPODCAST15 for 15% off. You're going to hear me talking more about these short-term fatty acids. And there's a reason, so that's a teaser.
Barry Conrad
Stay tuned. Thanks for your question, Louise. Yes, thank you.
Melanie Avalon
All righty. So we have a question from Amy. Amy says, I'd like to solve the mystery of my electrolyte hydration deficiencies and learn more about cellular hydration and how I can optimize that process. It's been a bit of a struggle over the last couple of years, but I'm making progress already.
99% positive this is achievable this year. Okay. Hydration. All right. Thank you so much for joining us today. We'll see you next time.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, great, great question. Amy, thanks so much for the question. And first of all, love that you said, solve this mystery. I love that framing. And your mindset and your curiosity, it's already giving off that you're going to make progress this year. I believe it.
You know, electrolytes are, electrolytes and hydration are really, really important. And they're one of those topics that can seem pretty basic on the surface, you know, just drink more water and that's it. But once you start sort of digging into really like the cellular hydration, you realize it's a little bit more detailed than that and nuanced than just the volume. So if we zoom out a bit, Amy, you know, hydration isn't just about sort of how much water you drink. It's about how well your body holds onto and uses the water. So that's why and where electrolytes come in.
And I, Amy firstly, love element, you know, especially like the element canned sparkling drinks, you know, and they they're packed with sodium and potassium, actually, a thousand milligrams of sodium and 200 milligrams of potassium per can. And that matches their sticks as well. Shout out to element. We love element and basically sodium, potassium and magnesium, and to some extent calcium or what really allow water to move in and out of your cells properly. So without those babies, you can drink gallons of water and lots and lots of water and still feel like tired and depleted. So cellular hydration is really about that balance and your cells need the right concentration of electrolytes inside and outside to create that proper sort of fluid movement. So think of it sort of like pressure and gradients. If the balance is off, you can feel tired, headache, muscle crampy, brain fogs, even weird hunger signals as well.
Also, Amy, if you're fasting or exercising on the regular, I reckon that becomes even more important. So one thing I've learned personally is, especially with this half training, I think it'd probably be done by now by the time this airs, but with half marathon training layered on top of fasting, I need that sodium so much more like that sodium is not the villain it was made out to be. So if you're sweating and fasting, drinking so much plain water or eating lots of whole food, your sodium still needs to be higher than you think. So yeah, also hydration is not just about electrolytes. It's also about reducing things that increase loss or chronic stress, poor sleep, too much coffee, even though I love coffee, lots and lots of alcohol to the point where you're dehydrating yourself, intense exercise without recovering properly. All of that stuff can really increase fluid and electrolyte depletion.
Yeah, so again, I would also think about things like, I'm going to say it again, adequate protein, healthy fats, micronutrients, we were talking about before, Melanie was saying about getting enough nutrients in there, and you just need solid fundamentals in there.
Barry Conrad
Whole foods are not protein, good sleep. And also, Amy, track those small wins. I know that you're on this progress quest right now. The small wins matter along the way.
So if I were you, I'd experiment systematically instead of changing everything. So just adjust a variable at a time, add structured electrolytes daily, see how that goes, pageants into your recovery, your energy, your urine color, and that way you're gathering data in a sustainable way and not just extreme. Small habits compound. Anyway, I really wish you the best with this quest to solve this mystery, and we come to hear how you go. Melanie, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
That was so comprehensive and lovely and wonderful. I'm curious, do you have a favorite element, either of like the packets or the sparkling flavors?
Barry Conrad
I love the raspberry. You can't like the sparkling. I just like the sparkling, especially after the running. So that just feels like having a cold beer or something, but it's not a beer.
Melanie Avalon
I was going to ask if you drink a cold, you drink a cold cold.
Barry Conrad
ice cold
Melanie Avalon
Nice. Yeah, I bet that, man, I would look forward to that if I was like doing the training and then that must taste so good.
Barry Conrad
It's so good. Love it so much. Thanks, element.
Melanie Avalon
Again, Listener's Element has the packets that are easy to mix yourself. My favorite is the watermelon.
They also have unflavored, which is clean, fast friendly. And then they have their, well, they've had sparkling now for maybe like a, I'm not sure, maybe like a year-ish, there might be some new flavor. Actually, by the time this comes out, oh wait, when this comes out, oh, so I can say it. Oh, okay, so when this comes out, oh, did not plan this. When this comes out, they will have recently released four new flavors, which are, drum roll please, black cherry salt. You're gonna have to tell me, Barry, which one sounds most alluring to you. Black cherry salt, lemonade salt, orange salt, and pineapple salt. Again, these are the sparklings.
Barry Conrad
Did you say blackberry salt?
Melanie Avalon
pineapple. So black cherry, black cherry, lemonade, orange, and pineapple.
Barry Conrad
I reckon that it's a tie between the black cherry and the pineapple for me.
Melanie Avalon
I would be – well, not orange, I actually don't like orange, but lemonade is nostalgic to me. So I like that. Black cherry sounds yummy and pineapple I'm obsessed with as a fruit. So those all sound amazing.
But just to piggyback on everything Barry was saying. So I think people may think that hydration – so what's the difference between hydration and cellular hydration? Cellular hydration is the water actually getting into your cells and it's not just drinking water. So if you just drink water, that does not mean it will get into your cells. And that's why electrolytes are so, so important. And you want the proper ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. And Element came up with their ratio by studying thousands of people in CrossFit. So the founders – some of the founders, co-founders are Rob Wolf, my paleo hero, and then Luis – and I can never say his last name – Visenor, but he founded KetoGainz. And so it's based on what he learned from running KetoGainz and what would best actually create hydration for people. Because especially if you're doing a ketogenic diet, a low-carb diet, a paleo diet, because a whole foods diet is very low in sodium. Because a lot of the modern people today – the modern people today – our modern diet today is very high in processed sodium if you're eating any sort of non-whole foods. But if you're just eating whole foods, then you're not getting that sodium and you're much more likely to get depleted. And if you're fasting, very likely to get depleted. Same with exercise. So like Barry doing his training. So that's why electrolytes can be so, so key.
They're involved in the majority of the cellular processes in your body, especially getting that water into your cells. And so like, I actually hadn't looked up before what each one does. But so sodium, it is a primary – it's the primary extracellular cation. It manages the plasma volume. It actually puts water – actually helps water get absorbed in the small intestine. And it's required for adrenal function and blood pressure regulation. And then potassium, it's the primary intracellular cation. So it's inside the cell. So sodium is outside the cell, potassium is inside the cell. It's really helpful in maintaining membrane potential. It supports your muscle contractions and your nerve signaling. And it works in opposition with sodium. So sodium and potassium, that's why there's a sodium-potassium gradient. You need them in the right ratio so that water can properly flow in and out of the cells.
And the magnesium is required for ATP stability. And ATP is basically the energy that we generate. It's involved in over 300 enzymatic reactions. And now I've even read studies saying over 600. And it regulates – Oh, wow. Yeah. It's like involved in basically everything. And most people are deficient. And it regulates potassium transport into the cells. So it helps potassium get into the cells. So then potassium and sodium can do their thing.
Melanie Avalon
So yeah, you really want that working correctly. So try some electrolytes and see if that helps you. So Amy, thank you so much for your question. And like Barry was saying, I echo what he was saying about, we love your mindset. But I love that you're looking at it like a mystery and that you are 99% positive that it's achievable.
That's right. That's right. It is achievable. I'm 100% positive. You've got this. You've got this. Okay. Do we want to do another question or do we want to have our proverbial breaking of the fast?
Barry Conrad
Should we do a proverbial?
Melanie Avalon
I think so. All right. So the purpose of this part of the show is it is super important, not just the fasting, but also the feeding. And actually that's also a teaser for next week.
I'm very excited about my study next week. So we like to showcase a restaurant every week and talk about how we would proverbially break our fast. Oh, which speaking up really quickly, because I struggled saying proverbially, do you want to know what word? We just said it a lot in the last question. There was a word in the last question that it's on my list of words that I struggle with so much saying.
Barry Conrad
Tell me, what is it?
Melanie Avalon
But I think I'm good. I think I'm pretty good at it now. Like I think I, I like worked so hard on saying it that I think I can say it. I have to think about it though when I'm saying it.
Cellular. Really? Yeah, I used to struggle so bad. Like, no, I can say it. Cellular.
Barry Conrad
I've never heard you go, Oh, wow. Melanie, that's like a tongue twister for, I've never ever heard that. No.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but I guess I've learned now. I have to like see it in my head and I have to say the word cell. I have to like think of it as three different words.
I can't say it as like one word, so I have to say cell and then I have to say you and then I have to say lurk.
Barry Conrad
breaking it down.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. So in any case, the restaurant that I picked for this week, I'm so excited about this one. So I will send it to you.
The backstory on this restaurant, I was already... So this restaurant is in Disney World. However, I was already familiar with it because I enjoy reading about restaurants and looking up cool restaurants. I do it for fun. And so I was really familiar with this restaurant.
It's called... Have you heard of the Cake Bake Shop?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I actually have heard about this.
Melanie Avalon
You have? Okay, so there's two locations in Indiana, the original in Carmel, not California, Indiana. And then one opened on the boardwalk in Disney World in October of 2024, the boardwalk for listeners if they haven't been. It is one of my favorite places in the entire world.
It is a hotel and restaurants on a boardwalk and it connects Epcot to the Swanton Dolphin Hotels. And it's just like such a wonderful vibe. And so they opened a cake bake shop on the boardwalk as well. And it's literally a boardwalk because there's like the boats and you can take boats to places. And it's so cute. I just love it. But this restaurant, the reason I've been fascinated with it for so long is it's literally if I, in another world, if I was not like a paleo, Whole Foods, non-cake eater situation person, like if I ate all the things, then this is the restaurant I would open because it's stunning. It's like chandeliers and Swarovski crystals everywhere. Like the chandelier is made of Swarovski. And then it's like nice furniture. And apparently it's just stunning, like mirrors. And they put, and they have lots of cake. They have a funfetti cake and they put glitter on the food and the cake.
Barry Conrad
It's very pretty. I'm looking at the website. It's very Melanie Evelon coded.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm
Barry Conrad
Listeners, if you pull this up, you can see for yourselves. Thecakebakeshop.com, it screams Melanie, I reckon. And there's also a gift shop, I think, is there?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they have a gift shop. Okay, they put edible glitter on many of its food items, like their cakes, their cookies, their cocktails, everything is like shimmering.
So it's like a magical shimmery place. So if we were to go, if we were to go here, can you please order like all the cake?
Barry Conrad
Of course, because looking, yeah, look at these cakes, like looking at these cakes, they just look like they're too good to be eating because they look so pretty.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I've heard it's just like stunning. Oh, man. So should we do we want to do the menu from like the original or from Disney? Probably Disney because that's where we would go.
Barry Conrad
This dude, Disney, Disney's boardwalk at Walt Disney Resort dinner. What are you going to do? We never do lunch. Who am I kidding? This dinner.
Melanie Avalon
You know, it's funny though, okay, because I also, like I said, I read about restaurants and then I also read like the Disney food blog every night. And so I was aware that this restaurant was coming for a long time before it came.
And they, at one point they had, before it opened, they had like the menu outside and people took pictures of it. And then it opened, I think they, people freaked out about the prices. I don't know if they changed the prices before they actually opened it or if they opened it and dropped them, but people were not having it. So they actually like reduced the prices, but opening with another word I can never say, even though it's very common or devour or divorce or, or diverse.
Barry Conrad
You know what? Yeah. Audiverse, right? Audiverse. It's not cellulite. It's audible. Audiverse.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, should we tell listeners the story about the entree with your friend?
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Oh, wow. Yes. Melanie, Melanie was a recipient of a video that I sent her. And what was the contents of the video, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this is one of my favorite videos I've ever received. It was Barry, what's her name?
Michelle, your friend, Michelle. Yeah. Barry and his friend, Michelle, and he just lets Michelle take it away. And Michelle tells a story about how Barry was hosting this dinner and he was making appetizers, but because he calls them entrees, he was like, I'm paraphrasing now, but you basically were like, and now here are three, we have three on, wait, you, oh, you brought out the appetizers and you were like, here are our entrees. And she was like, wait, what are we.
Barry Conrad
This is four pieces of ravioli, that's it.
Melanie Avalon
I felt so validated. So you got schooled by somebody else on the terminology.
Barry Conrad
It was very funny. I laughed immediately and straight away thought of you. That's why I pulled up my, whipped up my phone and had to do that video for you.
Melanie Avalon
made me so happy. Yeah. Okay, so what are we going to have? What would you like? Do you like anything from the Ordovas?
Barry Conrad
Yes, definitely. Now that I've tried that crab cake at the other restaurant, Delmonico's, the other week, I'm on a crab cake. I've never been obsessed with a crab cake until then, so I'm going to go for the crab cake with remoulade, which is blue lump and jumbo lump crab cake.
And remoulade, is that how we say it? Remoulade sauce served with an arugula salad salada. Looks so good.
Melanie Avalon
Nice.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, what about you?
Melanie Avalon
I actually don't want anything from this list. We're off to a good start, but I'll be happy to be there.
Barry Conrad
This soup, do you like soup?
Melanie Avalon
in theory, but maybe stoop has so many ingredients in it.
Barry Conrad
Have I asked you this before? I don't think we've talked much about soup. Do you like soup?
Melanie Avalon
I do. If I'm at a restaurant, there's so many ingredients in there, I don't know what's in it. French onion could be approachable. It's so salty though, speaking of sodium.
In spirit, I do love French onion soup. I probably wouldn't order it, but I do love it. How about you?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I do. I love a good soup, especially in the past colder months, very recently, making like a hearty vegetable soup, chicken soup, honestly like a soup every week at least.
And it's been really good.
Melanie Avalon
What's your favorite soup?
Barry Conrad
Not, not just the brothy kind, like it's got to have like substantial, you know, stuff in there like potatoes or onion or, you know, kale, just like almost stewy. So it kind of feels substantial, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's funny. We're opposites there, you know French onion is very it's basically like broth. I do like it. It's just too It's like too filling for me And I like like I like eating like I like chewing
Barry Conrad
That's true, not in between, right? Like drink, chew, it's kind of.
Melanie Avalon
What would you get from this list?
Barry Conrad
Well, there's a Gwendolyn's signature chicken and an andouille gumbo, and I love gumbo, so it's topped with long grain white rice and chopped parsley. Yum, served with a side of New Orleans crystal hot sauce.
Love hot sauce. This place looks awesome.
And toasted Gambino's French bread. Sign me up.
Melanie Avalon
perfect. And it's the signature. So you're covering that like you like to do.
Barry Conrad
Also, no, there's a French onion soup there.
Melanie Avalon
I know that's why I was saying if I had to get one, I would get that, but I probably will not. Are you going to get a salad?
Barry Conrad
I think I'll pause on the cell at this time.
Melanie Avalon
I will too. And now we are to dinner. Okay, so let's see. Oh you can get the gumbo for dinner.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I can see. Yeah. Oh, and you can add shrimp as well. What's jumping out at you? There's, there's quite a few things. It's quite a few choices.
Melanie Avalon
I would probably get probably the salmon filet or it would depend if I'm in the mood for steak or salmon, maybe both. Yeah. A salmon filet which is fresh wild salmon filet finished with a lemon dill creme fraiche served with fingerling potatoes and roasted asparagus. I would see if they could substitute that for steamed spinach if possible.
If not, you can have my sides. And steak frites au poivre, 12 ounce New York strip steak with cognac green peppercorn sauce served with palm frites.
Again, you can have my fries and I'll have that blue please. How about you? Oh, they have crab cakes as an entree.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm going to do the New Orleans Shrimp Po' Boy. A dozen fried shrimp, homemade Rimmelade sauce, mayonnaise, shredded lettuce, chopped tomatoes, and pickles and French bread imported daily from Gambino's bakery in New Orleans, served with a side of New Orleans Crystal Hot Sauce, and pomade, frites, frites, frites?
What's frites? What are frites? Pomfrites. Okay, pomfrites, there we go. Got that totally wrong. And pomfrites, there we go.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. And then if you scroll down to the kids menu and then they have the gift shop and they say, complete your magical experience.
That is right. By visiting our enchanting gift shop, see, this woman knows like the words I love. Discover exclusive treasures like our signature pixie cake dolls, charms, keychains, hats, t-shirts, baking tools, wait for it, ornaments, and gourmet treats. Wow.
Barry Conrad
I feel like this gift shop is definitely going to be calling your name if we ever go here.
Melanie Avalon
There is a unicorn in the bottom right corner, all as well.
Barry Conrad
Is the dessert I'm trying to find.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have buttercream, the unicorn ornament. Okay, let's go to the cakes, I guess, order, or is there a dessert menu?
Barry Conrad
Desserts all day or desserts? Desserts. Do you see that?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait. So go to menu and then the yeah, all day, I think desserts all day because that's the restaurant menu.
Barry Conrad
Oh man, this looks so good.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, look at the look at the like menu. It's got little it's got drawings. Is this the first time that there's been drawings?
Barry Conrad
I think so. I don't remember many other of our choices having like artwork like this. It's usually photos.
Melanie Avalon
We can actually see what we're getting into look at all these cake slices. Oh my goodness. I'm dying to know I'm dying to know what you're gonna get
Barry Conrad
There's quite a few, there's even Oprah's O-list mince chocolate chip cake. She must've liked that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think that's one of the things that really blew them up when they were originally in Indiana is Oprah featured them.
Barry Conrad
And also, Mel, there's a pixie-fitty birthday cake.
Melanie Avalon
Yep, that's that's how I like found them, that that's the funfetti cake.
Barry Conrad
Oh, man. Well, I'm going to get a few slices. It's just going to be one of those really indulgent dinners.
So definitely starting with the Gwendolyn's famous Earl's Core chocolate cake, because I love my chocolate cake, which is, yeah, there's so much to say. I own a French chocolate cake filled with Calabort Belgian chocolate ganache and melted chocolate cream topped with Calabort Belgian chocolate fudge and fleur de sel. Having that, also the red velvet cake, because I love that so much chocolate and red velvet. And then I have to, in honor of Mel, get the Pixie Fettie.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, please. Do you want to read it?
Barry Conrad
Vanilla confetti cake with a hint of almond filled and frosted with baron blue vanilla almond buttercream and topped with pixie fettie confetti.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, this is how I found them, I think, originally, because I was looking up the best funfetti cakes in the country. And yes, I mean, what other funfetti cake is covered in glitter? Oh, my goodness.
Barry Conrad
I wonder how big the slices are.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they're massive. Well, you should Google it. They're massive. Type in, like, cake bake shop.
Barry Conrad
Oh wow, there are big slices.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they're like really, they're like massive slices.
Barry Conrad
They're bigger than your palm, like your hand.
Melanie Avalon
The other two I would want, if I was ordering, which these would all wreck me, but I would get the red velvet, the funfetti, the pixie-fetti. And then I'm so intrigued by the Neapolitan cake, which is Valjana French chocolate, because it's like Neapolitan, you know, like the strawberry vanilla chocolate. It just looks so pretty.
So it's a chocolate cake, vanilla cake, strawberry cake. And then they have a cookie dough cake. Vanilla cake with Calabaux miniature chocolate chips filled with, is that Calabaux? Belgian chocolate ganache and chocolate chip cookie dough topped with vanilla buttercream and miniature floaterstuhl chocolate chip cookies. I love cookie dough.
Barry Conrad
I think I would probably also get that. I mean, I just have to just go all out because I love, I can eat cookie dough. I love cookie dough, chocolate chips. I love all that.
Melanie Avalon
And then we didn't even get down, do they have pie? Like they have a, I thought you might've wanted the chocolate peanut butter mousse pie.
Barry Conrad
Oh my god, this place is going to... How am I going to get through this?
Melanie Avalon
And then they have, oh, the cookies and bars. So they have these different like cookie bars and stuff.
Barry Conrad
Oh man, I feel like if we came to a long reservation and just sort of grazed, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I really want to go here for reals because I want to like see this cake, so. You do? Yeah, I really want to go here. Even though the actual food is not like everything that I love, it seems like very bakery, which makes sense, bakery heavy with the sides and stuff.
Do they have, let me see if they have... Drinks? Yeah. Oh, drinks. They do. No, they do. Yes, they do.
Barry Conrad
drinks. Let's check it out. Here we go. Teas and things. How about alcoholic drinks?
Melanie Avalon
Oh yeah, they have a lot of teaks. They do like tea times and stuff. Do you see any cocktails you like?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that they've got cocktails and beer. Does anything jump out at you there?
Melanie Avalon
I have to look at the wine. Do you see a cocktail?
Barry Conrad
You know how I like to try the fair of the land kind of thing? I don't love the Cosmo.
I don't like Cosmos historically, so I'm going to do the blush and barrel, which is our old-fashioned with a sparkling twist. Sazeric rye whiskey cake bake shop rosé bubble syrup. Wow. Creole and bitter truth orange bitters. It sounds very good and sweet.
Melanie Avalon
nice. I would have to do some research and get one of the French. They have quite a few French wines. So I would get whichever one is probably the driest and lower in alcohol. So I'd have to look them up and organic, of course, but it would end up being one of the French wines that they have.
Barry Conrad
Any champagne or not, really? Would you have a champagne because it's- I don't like champagne. Yeah, I know. I don't know why I keep asking.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you. You like it though, right?
Barry Conrad
I do but I thought maybe on special occasions you might indulge because it's like a nice place or like very festive.
Melanie Avalon
I do drink, so like I, if it's a, like, for example, they have like a brute rosé, which looks promising. I will, if it's like a moment, I'll have some. I just don't particularly like it.
Oh, they have sparkling gamet. That's interesting. I don't think it's organic. I would have a sip at the very least, but yeah, I'm just not a Bubbles fan.
Barry Conrad
make you fall, the carbonation.
Melanie Avalon
Gives me a headache. So I think this is definitely the most magical menu we've ever looked at as far as the vibe of the menu. Listeners, you can go to thecakebakeshop.com to check all of it out.
Barry Conrad
It's a very festive and very, very magical and enchanting, as they say.
Melanie Avalon
If I were to make a menu, the vibe of this is what it would be. So, okie dokie. Well, this has been so, so lovely. We went from being angry and upset to magic and unicorns and cake.
Barry Conrad
That's what an extreme. That's so funny.
Melanie Avalon
I know. So, listeners, thank you so much for spending your time with us.
We would love to hear from you. Please submit your questions. You can email us at questions at iapodcast.com. You can also go to iapodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can submit questions in the Facebook group, which is called IF Biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. The show notes for today's episode will be at iapodcast.com slash episode 470. And you can follow us on Instagram. I have podcasts. I am Melanie Avalon and Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. So, yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
That's all the things. Thank you so much once again for tuning in. You're all awesome and we'll catch you next week. Talk to you next week. Talk to you next week. Bye.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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