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Welcome to Episode 485 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 485 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 485 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie Avalon, I am doing so good, 'cause guess what I've been doing lately?
Melanie Avalon
I love guessing games.You have been running, eating, watching movies?
Barry Conrad
All of the above.All those things.
Melanie Avalon
Drinking?
Barry Conrad
Yes.That's, that's the, that's the closest.You're hot.You're really hot now.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?Drinking more water?
Barry Conrad
I need to drink more water.But do you remember when you, you sent me something a little while ago?It was, like, a kit of some sort.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, you're making the wine.
Barry Conrad
I'm making the wine.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'm so excited.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Melanie got me this wine-making kit from a company called Craft A Brew. And Mel, I've gone fully down this rabbit hole now.
It's been ... I didn't know what to expect. I thought it was gonna be ... I don't know, I don't know what I was gonna expect, but it's, there's quite a bit to it. But it's, I'm up to the clarifying stage now of the wine-making, and it's ... Yeah, so just finished that two days ago, and I've got 14 more days before I can bottle all that up. Crazy, right?
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness.May I ask some questions?
Barry Conrad
Ask me.
Melanie Avalon
You said you're at the clarifying phase.When did you start, like, the whole entire process?
Barry Conrad
So two weeks ago.So you kind of, you start and then you take 14 days to the next step, which is, was Sunday.And then 14 more days, you bottle it up.So it's, like, two-week increments sort of thing.
Melanie Avalon
And does it come with the bottles?
Barry Conrad
It doesn't come with the bottles, but it comes with bottle stoppers. Um, like, it comes with bottle tops.
So I guess you just, you buy your 750 ml bottles. But I didn't realize, it's gonna four 750 ml bottles and a small bottle, so, like, four and a half bottles. That's a lot of wine.
Melanie Avalon
Four, four, like, wine bottles.So you could just use an old wine bottle.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah.Well, I guess I, I, I didn't know how much wine I'd get from this, but it's, like, a gallon, so it's quite a lot.So I'll have a ...Hopefully it turns out good.I'll have to keep you posted.
Melanie Avalon
It's, I got the Pinot Grigio, right?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly.My favorite.
Melanie Avalon
Did, did it have, um, ways to make it, like, drier or sweeter or anything like that?Or do you just, like, throw in the ingredients and let it do its thing?
Barry Conrad
You just throw in the ingredients and let it do its thing. But there is one step that you miss if you're doing Moscato, which I don't really like Moscato at all, so not doing that step.
But it doesn't, it doesn't-
Melanie Avalon
Is it, like, don't add yeast as much?Wait, wait, wait.Yeast eat the sugar and turn it into alcohol.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. It says if you, if you're making Moscato, let the wine sit for 24 hours with the air lock installed, da, da, da, da, da. Yeah, if you're making Moscato, use only the larger juice pouch. Yeah, it doesn't say don't use yeast, though.
But yeah, I, I'm not, I'm not doing that. I'm doing the full situation. Pinot Grigio.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness.I'm so excited.I can't wait to hear how it turns out.
Barry Conrad
Well, I've never done anything like that before, so I'm ... I, you know I love my wine just like you do, so I can't wait to see how it tastes, how potent it's gonna be. Like, yeah, so many things.
But it does smell fruit- It smells fruity and like a Pinot Grigio already, so yeah.
Melanie Avalon
You're gonna have to have an official wine tasting.
Barry Conrad
I will.I'll have to do it and ...Oh, you know what?Maybe, I wonder if I should ...Yeah, we'll have to do it on the phone or something so you can hear my reaction.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. So actually, speaking of, I was talking with a glass brand yesterday, and I, I, I'll just talk about it really quickly 'cause I love these wine glasses.
So friends, if you guys are wine drinkers at all, you need to check out Glasvin. So they are natural, sustainable stemware, and but they're like ... You know when you have a glass and it just feels so sexy, like, really thin and crisp, and you feel like you're being fancy just holding the glass?
Barry Conrad
Yep.
Melanie Avalon
That's what these glasses feel like, and yet you can, like, wash them in the dishwasher, which I still haven't because I don't know, it makes me nervous. But, um, yeah.
They're hand-blown. They're in ... I actually went to a, um, a bar, like, a month ago or two months ago, and they were using these glasses, and it was, like, a James Beard-nominated bar. So they're used in a lot of, like, Michelin restaurants and James Beard Award restaurants. And they have literally, which is so cool, so if you go to their website, they have, like, 20 different glasses, and it's so that you can f- get the perfect glass for your situation, so, like, for what you're drinking. I mean, I guess for what you're drinking and, like, the, uh, environment that you're in. But they make ... So go grab them, friends. They make great gifts. They're what I'm using. You can get the universal. That's, like, their go-to for everything. I have the universal, I have the aromatic, and then they're gonna send me the Nick and Nora, so I'm excited to try those. I think I'll have a discount code by the time this airs, so if you go to melanieavalon.com/glasvin, so G-L-A-S-V-I-N I'm trying to get the coupon code Melanie Avalon, so go to that link, try the code Melanie Avalon, but get these glasses. I wasn't even gonna talk about that, but I got inspired based on what you just said.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, I, having a good wine glass makes the experience that much better, so I get that.
Melanie Avalon
It's, like, so important.I- when I have my, my tastings in my apartment and take my notes, and it's very ceremonial.
Barry Conrad
I think so too.And then, like, do you ever pair it with, like, a, like, a trinket of some sorts, or do you like to ex- like, do your wine separate and then-
Melanie Avalon
Mm, separate.Actually, that's interesting.Yeah, the only time I drink wine with food is at a restaurant.Otherwise, I stop drinking, and then I start eating.
Barry Conrad
So never, like, start drinking, cook, and then still have the glass whilst partaking of the meat and whatnot?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I have my very specific order. So I, I've, I actually-- I stand corrected.
So I, I drink the wi- I do the tasting. I drink the wine. Then I start eating cucumbers with the wine, but I'm still working. And then when I'm done, like, with the work and it's time to eat, eat, that's when I stop the wine.
Barry Conrad
That's so interesting to me.Wow, okay, good.
Melanie Avalon
It's like a whole thing.But if I go to the restaurant, I'll just be-- I'll-- I'm like a, I'm a, I'm a normal person at the restaurant.Well, not really, but at least as far as when I drink the wine.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Other than that, how's your day?How's-- What's happening?How are you?
Melanie Avalon
I am good.I'm trying to decide-- I'll tell you something fun that just happened 'cause this literally, literally just happened.I'm going to have one of the founders of the Enhance Games on my podcast.
Barry Conrad
What?That's amazing.That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon
I just got the confirmation literally right before this. So that will be exciting.
So you'll have to let me know... Well, Barry, you'll have to let me know what questions you would have for him. And I should get questions from listeners. I'm sure I'll get a lot of questions.
Barry Conrad
What's his name?What's the-- Which founder?
Melanie Avalon
So it's Max Martin, Maximilian Martin.
Barry Conrad
Well, I've made a note, so I can think of some things to ask, like how I did for Dr.Gabrielle Lyon.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.Yes.Yes.So I'm excited.
Barry Conrad
Did you know that you wanted to talk to him, and you had, like, a, a idea of questions you wanted to ask him, or was it just something that sort of happened?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I went in, I went into the games with the goal of that was the mission. The mission was get the founders on my podcast.
Well, the mission was watch the killers and get the founders on my podcast. So yeah.
Barry Conrad
Mission accomplished, as they would say.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.Yes.But shall we jump into some fasting stuff?
Barry Conrad
Let's jump in. Today, I am bringing a study for everyone, and it's called Associations of Body Composition and Resting Metabolic Rate With Homeostatic and Hedonic Components of Appetite. It's a mouthful right there.
And Mel, I'm gonna get this link to you real quick so you can see. So this was done by Awa Alrouali and colleagues, and it was published at first in the International Journal of Obesity in twenty twenty-six, so it's pretty recent, and conducted by researchers at Loughborough University and collaborating institutions in the UK and all over, like internationally. And why this study appeals to me is that it tackles that question I reckon a lot of people maybe wonder about, and, and that is why do some people seem hungry all the time while others can go hours without even thinking about food? Like, is it just willpower, or is there something going on, like, biologically? And this is exclusive of intermittent fasting just in general, why some people are always hungry and others seemingly can just go forever without eating. And the researchers recruited a hundred and thirty healthy adults between the ages of eighteen and fifty-five. About fifty-eight percent were guys, and f- forty-two percent were female. So at the average age was twenty-five years old, and the average weight was seventy point five kgs, so that's about, like, a hundred and fifty-five pounds. And the average BMI was twenty-four, which falls within the, quote-unquote, "healthy weight range." BMI is kind of all over the place, but that's what they're saying in the study. The participants completed an impressive amount of testing. So the researchers, they measured things like lean mass, body fat, resting metabolic rate, appetite hormones, hunger levels, food cravings, food taste preferences, and smell sensitivity, and even how much people actually ate in, like, a controlled lab setting. So before we get to the results, uh, I have to say and explain that what resting metabolic rate actually means for people who don't know. So resting metabolic rate, or RMR, is the number of calories our bodies burn just by being alive, just by existing. So even if you stayed in bed all day doing nothing, your body would still need energy to power your heart, your brain, your lungs, and pretty much every essential function that you have. So the average resting metabolic rate in this study was one thousand seven hundred and sixty-four calories per day. Biggest finding was that resting metabolic rate was really associated, strongly associated with how much food people ate. So it was, it was actually a better predictor of energy intake than either body fat or fat-free mass. So for people listening, whether you're new to the world of nutrition or fasting or whatnot, this is really interesting because we often hear a lot that muscle is what-- having more muscle makes people hungry or whatnot. But this study suggests, like, the bigger situation may, may actually be energy demand overall. So in simple terms, layman's terms, it's basically like if your body burns more energy through the day, your body may naturally encourage you to eat more food to meet those needs.
Barry Conrad
So the researchers also looked at appetite hormones, and one of those a- those hormones was ghrelin. And you probably heard that if you listen to this podcast, that's often called the hunger hormone because it tends to rise before meals and it stimulates the appetite.
So people with higher resting metabolic rates tended to have lower fasting ghrelin levels. They also examined leptin and peptide YY or PYY. So for anyone unfamiliar with those, leptin is a hormone produced by body fat that helps, like, sort of signal energy stores to the brain. So while, while PYY is released by the gut after eating and it helps promote feelings of fullness, which is important. And the researchers found that fat mass and lean mass were both associated with different patterns of these hormones. So that, that suggests that body composition may influence appetite regulation in ways that really go, go beyond just determining how much you eat at any given moment. So another interesting finding was that people with more fat-free mass reported way greater hunger after meals, while people with more body fat tended to report less hunger. So bringing all this all the way back to IF, intermittent fasting, I reckon this study to me reinforces something we talk about a lot and on the show, Mel, and that is, like, hunger is not simply willpower. It's there's real biological signals influencing how much we wanna eat every single day. So if someone has a higher metabolic rate, they may genuinely experience a stronger drive to just eat when they eat food. And the biggest takeaway I reckon is that appetite is really complex. It's not just about body fat, muscle mass, or self-control. It's the interaction between the energy expenditure, hormones, body composition, and the brain. And understanding that all can help explain why fasting experiences can look super different from one person to another. Mel, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
So I love this so much. It's interesting.
I've been thinking about it a bit because I'm prepping to interview Sarah Hill. She has a book called-- her new book coming out is called The Period Brain, but it's all about how women in different stages of their cycle, how it affects, like, everything, you know, your, your mood, your hunger, how you metabolize drugs. Like, literally it, it's crazy. Uh, even like reward value of food. So when you're in the luteal phase, food is more rewarding, so you're more likely to be, like, eating more, but everything else is less rewarding. So compared to the follicular phase, which is the first half of the cycle, it's reversed, so things are more rewarding. So, like, nicotine and smoking and, and alcohol and, and all of that is more rewarding, but food is less rewarding. And so what that means, and I'm gonna tie this back into your study, I promise, but just, like, with the rewarding factor, for example, it's like, oh, if you're a woman, you probably should-- if you wanna try to break a habit, you should probably do it in the luteal phase, not the follicular phase. Like, it's, it's that nuanced. W- but it's been making me think a lot about this metabolism issue or this metabolism subject and hunger because, for example, women in the luteal phase, their body burns-- I have to-- I'd have to check the exact numbers, but I think it's around, like, your metabolism goes up around, mm, I think it's around, like, three hundred calories or so total. So y- you're literally hungrier in that phase becau- because your metabolism went up, your resting metabolism, so what you're talking about. So there's definitely that direct connection between metabolism and then hunger and then, you know, consequently eating. And so, and that's why I think it's really important to be aware of that and make sure that you lead with, you know, food that is nourishing and filling and meeting your nutritional needs rather than just, like, you know, craving and binging and eating all the, the processed food junks, which will just make your hunger worse and/or with fasting, you know, that's a, a really great thing for addressing all of those hunger hormones that you mentioned during the fast.
So even if you do have a higher metabolism, you're gonna support a healthy appetite response, you're gonna actually decrease hunger by, you know, enter- entering into the fasted state. 'Cause I think people might hear that and might be like, "Oh, then maybe if I have a faster metabolism..." I, I don't know, I don't know what people are thinking, but the point is fasting would, you know, really, really help with that. And also teaser, I haven't finished doing the research on the study because it was-- I need to, like, take it in some more, but I was just reading a paper about ghrelin, which you were mentioning, the hunger hormone, and how it might not be what we think. So that's a teaser, yeah. It might, it might be working through a slightly different mechanism, so I will, um... Stay tuned for that. But yeah, no, I love this study. I love this study.
Barry Conrad
Well, I just think it's so layered, you know? Like, a lot of people just think, "Oh, I'm just hangry, I'm just always hungry," or it's, you know, "I'm just a bigger person," or, "I have more muscle." It's just good to be able to see it in more, like, detail or get more granular about it, you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And what I'm really fascinated about, I would like to see a graph of this.
I don't know how you would do this, but it's like some people-- 'Cause, you know, the, what you were saying, my understanding was the finding was that the higher their RMR, the hungrier they are, right?
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder, I-- 'Cause there are, like, some people who it just seems like they have a really high metabolism, and they eat constantly, and they also don't gain weight. Like, I would be curious where-- Like, if you were to, if you were to plot it, like, on a X-Y graph, you could make the Y axis your metabolism, so RMR, and then you could make the X axis your... Wait, you might need mul- more than... Wait, let me think about this.
What I'm trying to plot is people's hunger, appetite intake compared to... Yeah, you need three. I don't know how to-- Wait. I don't think I went to enough school. How-- I don't know how to do a three. How do you do a, a graph with three things?
Barry Conrad
I definitely wanna see what's in your brain right now, like, what you're, what you're envisioning.
Melanie Avalon
I need a 3D graph.I'm sure this is, like, such a-- People are probably, like, screaming at their phones about how stupid I sound right now, but-
Barry Conrad
No
Melanie Avalon
... 'cause I, I-- What I'm trying to draw is- People's... Three factors, people's hunger, how much food people eat. We'll just, we'll just do that.
How much food people eat, which we're gonna assume correlates to hunger, their resting metabolic rate, and then their weight. Because there's gonna be some people, I presume, who have a very high metabolism, eat a ton, and yet are a, a low weight. So I would be curious what that would look like, the outliers.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, the study here says the average resting metabolic rate in this study for all of the participants was 1,764 calories a day, which isn't that much. But also that could be, maybe be max for like a female. Do you know? It just depends. Like it's, it's, it's interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I'm curious, you said these were like healthy weight people?
I'm, I'm wondering what they did with the outliers that there had to have been some people that were really, really high metabolism, eating a ton, and were thin. Like thin, you know?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, average age 25, average weight 70.5 kgs, which is pretty, pretty light.Pretty light, you know?
Melanie Avalon
What is that in pounds?
Barry Conrad
That's 155 pounds. It's pretty light for a dude, for example. It might be, it might be higher, maybe higher for females. It also depends on height, I don't know.
But that's pretty, seems like a pretty healthy... And the BMI is 24 across the board. Yeah, interesting. And I also think as well, like for example me, I, when I'm not fasting, even, even if I am fasting, if someone puts food in front of me, I just, I love food so much. I, I, I will always have the craving to eat it. It's not like, "Oh, I don't feel like eating," unless I've done like Christmas or something crazy like that. But I love food and I'm usually always hungry, and you can usually always eat again if there's like another occasion. So I wonder if my resting metabolic rate is higher. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
So that actually speaks to what I'm saying.So you might have a higher resting metabolic rate, you would want to eat the things.You're also in very good shape.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but also it's interesting, 'cause my family, like genetically, I don't know where that comes from as well because... Yeah, anyway, it's, there's so many factors. It, it's such... Yeah, I'd like to study exactly what you're saying, like get a graph.
And also factor in things like exercise. Do these people work out all the time, or are they just like plop out just like regular not working out? Just how much they weigh, what the metabolic rate is, that's it. You know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And are you saying... 'Cause this is what I, this is what I feel about me, um, which is interesting, so there's two parts to this. One, prior to doing intermittent fasting, I was the exact same way. Like I could, I could always eat. I'd always be down. Like always. And if there's more f- I didn't understand people who didn't like eat everything on their plate. I was like, that like, that was like mind-blowing to me. Like you know people that eat like just like half of their food and they're done? I'm like, "You're not gonna eat the rest?" Once I started fasting, I actually got in... Like now the vibe is I, I don't like... Like I find food very alluring I guess, like esoterically or like in theory, but I actually don't wanna eat it.
I actually like a- like adamantly don't want to. It feels, it feels like the equivalent of the probably only time I wouldn't wanna eat before fasting, which was when I was like really, really excited or like on adrenaline or something. Bringing this full circle, I think, and I don't know if this is what you were getting at, I think if I, if I just ate the way my, my brain would like to... If I didn't, if I didn't do intermittent fasting and like do what I do, which has made it, like I said, to, I, I literally don't wanna eat during a fast. Like I don't want to. And then I love eating when I eat, so it works great for me. If I didn't do fasting and I started like eating again during the day, and if I were to let myself literally just eat whatever I wanted, I, I think I would, I would gain a, I would gain a ton of weight. Like I have no question. I don't think I would, I don't think I would just like eat it and, and burn it off.
Barry Conrad
Interesting. But that, I mean, it'd be interesting ex- experiment. Obviously that will never happen kinda thing.
Like, you know, most likely not, but it'd be interesting to see what would happen if someone like you or someone who'd done fasting for a long time as an experiment went back to, just as like a literal study, for like a month just ate regularly and just to compare, and then went back to fasting. I, I wonder if that there's a study that's been done like that.
Melanie Avalon
That would be interesting, yeah. I, I would really, I would love to read that.
I would not like to do it. I have, I have tried in the past like a different window, and I would never make it past like a day. It was, it was so miserable to me. It was so miserable to be hungry all day. 'Cause once I start eating any given day, I just wanna keep eating.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Same.
We'll watch the space when I get a role that I think requires the character to have more weight and I eat more. I, but even then, I still think I'll, I'll still fast and just eat more. Do you know what I mean? Like I don't think I'd just all of a sudden not... I don't know. Interesting. Who knows? Who knows?
Melanie Avalon
Would you do a role that required you to be obese? What if you knew, and I'm not saying that as a judgment, I'm saying because metabolically it's very unhealthy. So that's, there's no judgment in that question.
What if you knew that it, and there's no way you can know this, but what if you knew that it would become, like you would win an Oscar?
Barry Conrad
Well, what is, it depends on what the definition, 'cause you know with, now with BMI you can not even look obese but you're technically obese.Like-
Melanie Avalon
So metabolically, like excessive body fat, metabolically unhealthy.
Barry Conrad
I don't, I don't know if I would just for, just for the Oscar. I don't know.
Ah. I would definitely gain weight. I would definitely, I'm not precious about that. I would definitely, if I, if I thought the character like that, that would be in context. But I wouldn't just... But also who knows? If it was in front of me, I might completely change my mind. You know what I mean? It wouldn't feel good, though.
Melanie Avalon
No, I know, I know. I think I've swapped a little bit in that I probably, I don't know, there's probably a time in my life where I would have done that, but I, now I- I, I wouldn't. I just, I don't think I could exist-- I wouldn't wanna exist in that metabolically unhealthy state, and I don't think it would feel good. Like, I, I just don't know if I could do it.
I would, however, I remember when I first started auditioning and, for things and I was like, "I can't do..." This is also when I was all intense about my, like I'd just become paleo and all the things. I remember I'd be like, I remember I would like look at, um, like castings, and it'd be like for, like McDonald's, and you have to eat, you know, eat a cheeseburger, and I'd be like, "Nope, can't do that." But now I'm like, "Hmm, maybe I would." Except not, 'cause I don't wanna be in a commercial for McDonald's. But my point is, I think I've, I've become more, now I could, I could temporarily for like one day eat something really bad for me, but I couldn't do it ongoing.
Barry Conrad
Well, interesting things.
Melanie Avalon
I know.So shall we go on to our next question?
Barry Conrad
Yes, let's jump into some questions. Let's do it.
So we have an email from Amy. She writes, "Bone broth or any type of broth. Hey, guys, I had a question regarding your podcast about bone broth and not being acceptable to consume during the fast. I initially read Jason Fung's how to book, and he includes bone broth as being okay? Just curious why you guys disagree on that? Bone broth has really helped me fast for longer periods, so I was sad to hear your opinion on that. Also, what about just regular chicken broth, the kind that doesn't have collagen or any health benefits? Lol. Smiley face. Thanks." Melanie, what do you think of this question?
Melanie Avalon
Hello, Amy. Thank you for your question, which by the way, I see the date on this question, and it is quite a while ago, so hopefully you're still listening. It's still relevant, obviously, though, to so many people.
So bone broth, this, this would have been when Jen was co-hosting actually that she asked this. Bone broth itself, and you're right, there's a lot of different opinions out there, and like Dr. Jason Fung, I think does allow bone broth. I mean, that's what he says, but I'm not sure if he's like evolved, if, if he's changed his mind on that at all or not. I'm pretty sure that Megan Ramos is also on this, is also on the same page there. The thing is, bone broth, it is-- actually, it's honestly one of the more fast-breaking things you could consume. And the reason I say that is that it is very high in protein and collagen and amino acids. And if we know one thing, we know that amino acids like very quickly shut off a- shut off autophagy, for example, which is the, the time when your body in the fasted state normally breaks down old and dysfunctional cells in your body. Bone broth contains calories. It can trigger an insulin response. It is a food. So if you're having it in your fast, in my opinion, you're not really fasting. You could be bone broth fasting, which a lot of people do bone broth fasts. They can fi- they find that really healing 'cause it's very easily assimilated nutrients by the stomach. It can be very healing for the, for the gut lining. So I think it really depends on your goals. If your goals are to have a, quote, "clean fast" and, and like actually be fasting, I would say no bone, no bone broth. But if you're interested in maybe like, l- yeah, like I said, like, like a healing fast to try to heal your, your gut or even like an extended fast thing where you maybe just drink bone broth for a couple days, I don't know. It really just depends on your goals is the point.
As far as regular chicken broth, I would, I would not, I would not touch that. There are so many ingredients in, especially when you look on the back of the labels at the grocery market, uh, grocery store. They're often super high in sodium. They usually have a lot of additives, flavors. So I shouldn't, I-- well, she did say regular chicken broth. So I wouldn't take chicken broth off of the table completely. You know, you can make your own, which by the way, I did go through a bone broth and chicken broth making phase. That was like a whole phase of mine. But I would be very careful with the brands that you purchase if you purchase it on the shelf. So, Barry, what are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, you, Melanie, you answered that so well. I think, Amy, I reckon, like it's important to separate those two convos sort of things. So will it help someone fast longer is one question, and is it technically breaking a fast is another thing, and they're not necessarily the same. Do you know what I mean?
So it's exactly what Melanie was saying. If you wanted like a, you can still have, like when people have water fasts, you can have a bone, like a bone broth fast, but it's not intermittent fasting, a clean intermittent fast in my opinion and in Mel's opinion. But if it helps you to, if you're wanting to lose weight or just have a healing situation like Mel said, great. That, that's one goal, but it, it just depends on what you want. It's the context. And I think as well, if someone's using a cup of bone broth strategically and it's helping them build a fasting lifestyle, for example, that they can stick to, like to start off with, if it does make it tolerable in the beginning, that's different also from grazing on snacks all day too. So depends on your goals. I'd, I'd-- we'd love to hear more. If you're still listening, Amy, please let us know what you think. But at the end of the day, drinking bone broth is a f- it is a food, and it has calories, so it's not technically clean fasting.
Melanie Avalon
Shall we go on to our next question?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right, so next up we have a question from Sarah, and the subject is pre-dinner binge. And Sarah says, "Hi. Love, love, love your podcast. You are too awesome for words. Listening to the podcast helps so much with this journey, and it's so great to hear other people's struggles to let you know you are not alone. I have been doing IF for several months now. I am loving this change, and it works really well overall for me. I have lost ten pounds but mostly maintaining right now. I started with a five-hour window every day, but I was finding that this was too much for me as I was having a decent lunch and a dinner. "I have now been trying the one meal a day approach. My only problem is when it gets to that time of day, 5:00 p.m., I am starving. So hungry. This then leads to a binge of sorts, eating everything I can get my hands on before dinner, as I am starving. I find no matter what snack I eat, it does not satisfy me. Once I start eating, I cannot stop," with a frowny face.
"Once I have my dinner, I am satisfied and have no problem closing the window after this. I work out at least once a day, usually a 45-minute spin class, usually early a.m. I clean fast and I am trying to lose 20 pounds. What can I do to calm down the ravenous beast that is inside of me? Should I open my window earlier, and what foods will be good options to open my window with that will tame the beast? Thanks so much, Sarah."
Barry Conrad
Sarah, first of all, thanks for the question, and I had a smile on my face, especially towards the end with the ravenous beast comments and taming the beast. I, I love this because I think it's r-really relatable, you know? And you described it really well. You're cruising along through the day feeling real good, feeling in control, feeling committed to what you're doing with your fast, and then bam, suddenly 5:00 hits and it's like, you know, you're like the Hulk. Like, the switch flips and the ravenous beast awakens and suddenly the contents of your entire kitchen has been taken over like a tornado or something. You know, I think a lot more people experience this than they realize.
I think first of all, I wanna say that I don't think it's necessarily a willpower problem at all. From what you describe to me, there's some clues here. It sounds like your body's giving you feedback around eating enough and the nutri-- the food choices that you're having as well. So you mentioned that you start with a five-hour-- you started with a five-hour eating window and now moved to OMAD. So you also mentioned that you're doing 45-minute spin class most days, which is... That's a lot of cardio in the morning too, like on, on that empty stomach per se, and it, it's a decent amount of activity. So when I hear that all together, one of the first things that I think of is whether you're just asking too much of yourself right now without maybe having sufficient nutrients, sufficient protein in your eating window. Sometimes in the fasting world, Sarah, it's easy to assume that smaller eating window is better. It's like automatically better. If you, if you eat for one hour, it's great. If you eat for half an hour, it's better. Like, you know, that's not always true. The goal isn't to see how long you can go without eating and just to hold on and, and struggle. The goal is to really find a fasting rhythm that feels sustainable. It's about the long game and that it supports your lifestyle for the long run.
So if, if for example, every day ends with you feeling like this, like you're ready to eat the couch, your, your body might be just telling you something that really clear here. Like, what stood out to me most was your line where you say, "Once I start eating, I, I cannot stop." Now, honestly, that happens more when we wait until we're beyond hungry and also what we break our fast with as well could give us a clue as well. Are you reaching for-- What kind of snacks are you snacking on, for example? Are you, are you reaching for chips or charcuterie, or are you reaching for some boiled eggs, for example, or some, some cottage cheese or some yogurt, like, or eggs? You know? It's, it's really important to, to know that we don't really know. There's a massive difference between hunger and rev- ravenousness. So when you're pleasantly hungry, you can make clear choices, and when you're ravenous though, and I've been ravenous before, so I can speak from experience, your body does shift into this like, "Give me all the calories immediately" mode.
Barry Conrad
And at that point, it's kind of game over, and it's very difficult to kind of calm that down because your decisions, y-your decisions are clouded because your biology i-is basically trying to solve what it perceives as energy shortage, Sarah. So one possibility is exactly what you said in your question, opening your window a bit earlier maybe. That could be a, a solution. And I know some people hear, hear that and think that's somehow failing. Again, you're not failing by fasting for a shorter period of time. If moving from OMAD back to a slightly larger eating window allows you to feel more in control, more satisfied, less obsessed with your food, that may may be an option. So maybe try that and see if that helps.
Remember, we're trying to build something we can do for years. Another thing, again, I, I hinted at was what are you breaking your fast with, Sarah? So if you're opening with foods that digest really quickly and don't contain much protein, you just might not be getting that satiety signal you're looking for. So if, for example, if I were breaking a long fast and trying to tame that beast, tame the ravenous feeling, I'm gonna open with some protein. So for today, and this is actually real because I ate before doing the show, is I had eight, eight boiled eggs. I know that seems like a lot. I opened with that, um, something substantial. So I had the eggs, then I had a chicken curry that I made, you know, uh, with salmon. So opening with protein automatically makes me feel satisfied too, so I'm not feeling like starving by the time I get to like the, the big, like the main course kind of thing. So there's vegetables in there too. There's fiber in there. There's healthy fats in there and a little bit of quality carbohydrates as well. So notice what I said there, leading with the protein. That's really, really important, Sarah, because it's one of the most satiety nutrients you can ever have. Like it's so, it's so underrated and, and it could be like a really easy-- not an easy fix, but it could just cha- totally change the game. So play with shortening your fast and play with opening with your protein. I'd also encourage you to maybe slow down a bit when you open that window. So for example, I, I know that's easier said than done but, but even taking ten to fifteen minutes with that first portion of food before deciding what else you can-- what else you want can make a few-- can make surprising difference. So not rushing through it. You know, you've fasted for so long, so don't rush through- There, there's no emergency here. And another thing worth thinking about is you- you've, you've lost 10 pounds already. That's awesome. Like, that's so good. So sometimes when we're still focused on that 20 pound-- You said there's another 20 pounds? We can kind of forget to acknowledge what you've already done and what we're doing that is already working. So your body might also simply be asking for a slightly different approach now than it needed at the beginning.
Barry Conrad
So one thing I've learned through fasting is that, quote-unquote, "success" come, comes through listening and not pushing harder, 'cause your body, as I say a lot, and maybe it's a broken record, it's giving you feedback a lot. So if you're consistently feeling out of control about food, I wouldn't view it as a failure, Sarah. I'd view it as just information. It's just data.
So maybe OMAD is the sweet spot for you long term, or maybe your sweet spot is slightly earlier, you know, like 16 to 18 hours. Neither option is worse or better. What matters is finding the version that lets you feel energized. But Melanie, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. That was really, really epic and really great suggestions, and mine are all, mine are all, like, very similar and overlapping, so I'll just, I'll say them as well.
It's interesting because Sarah, what you were doing before it sounds like was working. You know, you, you lost weight. You said you're loving this change. It works really well for you, and this is, this is when you were doing a lunch and a dinner. You know, and now you're switching and it's not working. But the, the reason it wasn't working before, like the part, the part of what wasn't working before for you was eating too much at lunch and dinner. So it was, like, too much. So what you're trying to do is, you know, eat less. The irony is now with a one meal a day situation, even though it's one meal, it, it sounds like you're kind of... It- it's still like you're eating two meals because you're, you're, you're having this, this, like you said, a pre-dinner binge, so like one meal and then you're like eating again right after. So clearly, like Barry was saying, the way you're set up right now, like that situation is, is not working for you. And also as like a really quick side note that I was just thinking about, it's funny because you were saying when you had a five-hour window, you know, that it was two meals. My, my w- I'm not gonna bring up the whole great one meal a day debate. I'm not gonna go there. I do one meal a day and I tend to eat for four or five hours, so it's just interesting. I agree with everything Barry was saying. So my immediate first thought was the workout in the beginning is probably really stirring up your hunger, especially because it's early, and then that hunger is just building. So I would, I would try moving things around. Can you-- Could you work out later right before you eat and see what that does and/or like Barry was saying, could you open your window earlier? Especially because you have no problem closing the window, I would definitely try if you can, if it fits into your, your work schedule, your, your soc- your, your life schedule, I would definitely try opening it earlier and closing it earlier if you still wanna try this like, quote, "one meal a day" thing. Yeah, I would, I would try one of... a lot of things you can try. But the different things I would go in my, in my order, and again, it depends on your life, but I would try opening the window earlier, the eating window, and seeing if you are not ravenous, 'cause you're not waiting until un- you're not waiting until you're ravenous, and then see if you can still easily close it. Or go back to the two meal a day thing that you were doing, the five-hour window, and can you make, 'cause you were, you said, you know, you were eating too much. Can you either make the lunch lighter and not be really ravenous after and then have your normal dinner, or vice versa, have the decent lunch still and then have a, you know, not as heavy of a dinner? But either way, really f- I would still lead both meals if you do that with protein because that's so, so satiating.
Melanie Avalon
You know, like Barry was saying, it has the highest satiety factor of all the different macronutrients. It's gonna not mess with your blood sugar levels as much. So changing what you eat can have a, you know, a big effect on this.
Yeah, you have a lot of options, and I, I really would just channel what Barry was saying about it doesn't have to be, and I'm paraphrasing. But he was saying something about how, you know, you, you don't have to do this, and I'm saying it too. Like you don't have to do this one thing, like this one meal a day at this time is like the be all end all and that's what you have to do. No, you, you can do whatever works best for you. So experiment with the things and yeah. There's th- the good thing is there's like a lot of options that she can try experimenting with. Barry, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
I can't wait, and I can't wait to see what you have this week, Mel.
Melanie Avalon
All right. So the purpose of this part of the show is because what you eat in the eating window and h- well, the eating part of your intermittent fasting protocol is just as important as the fast.
And so we like to profile different restaurants and talk about how we would break our fast at said restaurant. Today, the restaurant that I have, you actually know, Barry, 'cause I, I decided with my last restaurant that I wanted to do this one next. Do you remember?
Barry Conrad
Oh, when was it?
Melanie Avalon
So I really wanna do, 'cause we did the Bazaar Meat at Las Vegas, I really, I really wanna do their f- their seafood one, the Bazaar-
Barry Conrad
The Maz, right?
Melanie Avalon
Uh, yeah.Let me-
Barry Conrad
Oh, this will be great.
Melanie Avalon
I wanted to do it while it was fresh in our memory having just done the, the meat one.
Barry Conrad
And the meat one was a vibe, too, and it was awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So we... Hold on. So a few, I think two episodes ago probably or a few episodes ago, we talked about José Andrés, The Bazaar, which I f- or Bazaar, I guess. I first went to it in Los Angeles. It's no longer in Los Angeles, but it is coming back in two locations.
He's like since rebranded it a little, like it's become, he has like Bazaar Meat, which is the one we did last or last time in Vegas. He has like Bazaar Bar. He has like another Bazaar just concept. This one, so this one is Bazaar Mar, which is seafood focused. And we noticed that in the Bazaar Meat it was basically all meat and then like a very brief seafood section. So we're very curious, 'cause I haven't looked yet. We're curious if it's like all seafood and then a very small meat section. Um, but what's really cool about Bazaar, The Bazaar... Oh, it is The Bazaar. The- he's really into like the science of food and eclectic and whimsical, and the vibes just always look really cool. I remember when I went to the old one, like, you know, I don't know how long ago, 10, 15 years ago, it was like Willy Wonka. It felt like being in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory meets like a really fancy bougie restaurant. So we are looking at Bazaar Mar at The Venetian in Las Vegas.
Barry Conrad
Awesome.Opening it now.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, oh, wait. And really quickly, Barry, before we jump, before we do this, I'm really curious. Did you, since our last conversation, was it last week? Have you thought about what you last ate before eating?
Barry Conrad
Do you know what?To be honest, I have not.I kinda, I kind of...I did the, I did the next day, but then after that I kind of, I kinda weaned off a little bit.Have you been thinking about it?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, yeah, I, I, I already was every time, but now I'm even more aware of it now. 'Cause now, 'cause before I was just doing it, but now I'm doing it and I'm aware.
So this is a teaser, listeners. Go check out episode, go check out episode 483 of the show. We talk about this fascinating study about how your brain, based on its memory of your last meal, affects the next meal intake. So it basically, if you eat distracted and you don't really like remember that meal, you eat more next time, which is wild.
Barry Conrad
It's a pretty awesome study.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.It's, it's pretty cool.So well, it looks like they start off with the same...This is what they had at the other restaurant, right?They had the J-
Barry Conrad
Yeah
Melanie Avalon
...the Jamón experience.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And I was talking about this because last time we profiled the restaurant, I was remembering, before we even looked at the menu, I was remembering having this incredible acorn-fed prosciutto that tasted like acorns, and here we are. They still, he still has it.
So I feel like we got... I would get some of that to start.
Barry Conrad
I actually, Mel, I actually thought about this after the show as well, 'cause I, I kept on thinking, what would that actually taste like?Like, I just, I can't...Like an acorn...Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
And again, literally like 15 years ago, and I still remember it.It was, it tasted like it had acorns in it, but it's just because the pigs eat, they only, I think they only eat acorns.I don't know.
Barry Conrad
I would get the same, I would get some of that too.I'm, I'm not gonna let that, this slip through my hands.I'm having some of that.
Melanie Avalon
I know.Every time we have to get it.And then, okay, so now I think is where we are getting...Well, okay, so now we're at, we have a little snacks section.
Barry Conrad
Little trinkets.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.I'm seeing, so it's, I'm seeing...Oh, it is mostly, it is mostly seafood.
Barry Conrad
This is cool.It's like the flip from last time.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.Do you see anything you would like?
Barry Conrad
I would get the main lobster croquetas, which is lobster and shrimp fritters, saffron a- aioli, aioli. That sounds really good.
And then I would also get the puntillitas fritas, which is baby squid, aioli negro, piparra pepper, simply fried as they do in the south of Spain.
Melanie Avalon
Mm.
Barry Conrad
That sounds really good.
Melanie Avalon
Have you had squid before?I think we've talked about this.
Barry Conrad
Many times, and I love it so much.Mel, this is the year you gotta try squid.
Melanie Avalon
I think I have.So long as I can get it, like, grilled.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, grilled. That's the on- that's the best way to have it is grilled.
I mean, this is fried here on this menu, but I prefer squid particularly over calamari is grilled. Where, where- whereas I can have calamari fried and I can still enjoy it.
Melanie Avalon
Well, if they can make me some grilled squid, I'll try, I'll try it. I really want the river trout cone, except I'm not sure what, what it is. It says, oh yeah, "Smoke in chimneys trout flour, preserved Meyer lemon dill." I don't really kn- it sounds... I want that.
Assume- assuming, assuming it's like trout and not like an ice cream cone made of, you know, something else. And then maybe some tuna sashimi. Neptune's Pillow. I think they had that on the other menu. Tuna sashimi, spice- spicy tuna, air bread, spicy ricoto mayo. I'll just have the tuna sashimi, please. Plain.
Now we're to the caviar. They got, they got the beluga.
Barry Conrad
They do.Again.It keeps following us around.
Melanie Avalon
I know.I feel like ever since we signaled it out, we see it everywhere.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Would you want any caviar?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll definitely... Well, 100 gra- I mean, this is expensive for dinner, but I'm g- the 100 grams of beluga, please. Real caviar, fried steamed buns, egg yolk emulsion, horseradish, chive creme furnace.
That's the experience though, so I wonder. Yeah, well, I'll definitely get the beluga. What about you?
Melanie Avalon
Yes.I, yes.I, the thing is, caviar is so salty, I don't like having a ton of it.But I would have like a tiny bit.
Barry Conrad
Have you had it with blinis before?Do you like blinis?
Melanie Avalon
Those are with like cream and...Right?Aren't they with...What is it, what is that?Isn't that like a-
Barry Conrad
It's like a mini, think of like a baby mini s- tiny little pancake thing.Like, but small.So small.
Melanie Avalon
Not my, not my current version of myself.Probably in the past.
Barry Conrad
It's really good.
Melanie Avalon
Is it the fried steamed buns that come with it?Is that the blini probably?
Barry Conrad
No, no, no.That's, that's, that's sort of different, but I think it's maybe that's the same sort of, sort of vibe where it's on the fried steamed buns the same way it'd be like...Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, look what's next.Barry's favorite section.We have the oyster section.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. I'm of course going for that. I'm gonna go on the half shell raw. It says, "Ask your server for daily selection cocktail sauce citrus." I'm gonna do a dozen of those babies. Let's go.
And some ceviche. Which is raw ceviche de tigre qu- with corn nuts. Love ceviche so much. What about you, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
That's oyster ceviche, is what it is, right?These are all oyster dishes?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah.Yep.
Melanie Avalon
Okay.Well, I'm not partaking in this section.I will try yours so that you can see in real time the authentic reaction of how much I c- dislike oysters.
Barry Conrad
Well, our... You know what? The universe is gonna... I reckon there's gonna be a plot twist where you're like, "Actually, I'm waiting for the bad taste to, to hit me, but I actually like it." I reckon that's gonna happen.
Melanie Avalon
The day that happens is the day I also stop liking Funfetti. It'll be a parallel universe, but reverse.
A reverse parallel universe. Wait, wait, wait. In parallel universes, is it reverse or is it parallel? Oh, mirror u- mirror universe. That's what it is. It will be a mirror universe.
Barry Conrad
And maybe it'll happen because you went through that vortex for a second, so maybe it's already happened.
Melanie Avalon
Listeners don't know this, but we went through a vortex and we're back, and we lived a century while we were gone, but we don't remember it.
Barry Conrad
Mel ate all the oysters and stuff, so now she's all primed and ready.
Melanie Avalon
I know.Oh my goodness.Okay.So now we have raw and simple.Ooh, I see something I want.I have to look up mercury levels.
Barry Conrad
What?Which one?
Melanie Avalon
Do you wanna guess?
Barry Conrad
I think the mackerel tartare.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Apparently mackerel, mackerel... One reason I like this restaurant experience is I learn a lot about mercury in different fishes.
Like, we learned about that really cool fish that I was really excited about eating, and I forgot it already.
Barry Conrad
Oraca.It's, like, some kind of-
Melanie Avalon
I think I'll rec- if I see it, I'll...It had three names.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I've never heard of it before until we-
Melanie Avalon
Apparently it's, like, super low-mercury and looked really good. Okay.
So apparently mackerel varies drastically because it can be really small or it can be really big. So I would need to ask the restaurant which species. Is it horse mackerel? Is it Atlantic Mediterranean, Spanish, or king? You don't want king. You don't want Spanish. You don't want Atlantic Mediterranean. I have to check if horse is okay.
Barry Conrad
Okay.Do you have a plan?Do you have a, another one that you would like if-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Horse mackerel is lower. So if it's horse mackerel, which it comes with... It's cured, lemon emulsion, apples, tomato, citrus gel, taro root chips. I'll just get all of that on the side.
Backups. I can get sea... I know I said I don't order sea scallops at restaurants, but I can get it as a appetizer situation. So I would be open to the, I don't know how you say this, Hokkaido sea scallops crudo, which is tomatillo and seeds. Oh, goodness. Aguachile, green grapes, jalapeno, cucumber oil. I change my mind. It sounds really spicy. Never mind. I'm out.
Barry Conrad
You don't like spicy.That's right.Interesting.
Melanie Avalon
So maybe the mackerel, but otherwise no.
Barry Conrad
Wow.Okay, good.
Melanie Avalon
Do you want a little sandwich?
Barry Conrad
I actually do. I'm gonna go for the anchovies ton bo karate, which is Spanish salt-cured anchovies, pan de cristal with smoked butter. That actually sounds so good, and a little bit probably spicy as well.
Melanie Avalon
I will not be getting a little sandwich.
Barry Conrad
You're not gonna get a little sandwich?
Melanie Avalon
No. Okay. Now we're at sea what else, and they spell sea S-E-A. Oh, okay.
So here... Okay, I think this is now we're into, like, entree territory. So they have, they have sea what else, which is some different seafood entrees, and then they have whole fish and shellfish. And it says, "Come on, guys. This is why you are here. José Andrés seafood offerings from the world. Please ask your server for seasonal selections and prices." And then, oh, we were right. There's one brief section for the meat eater, and it has... And then there's a vegetarian salad section. So yeah. So what are you feeling for your, yes, I'm saying it, entree?
Barry Conrad
I actually would like to get a... The whole fish sashimi sounds really good. I mean, it sounds really basic, but, like, 'cause it's sashimi, but I... That's delicious to me, a whole fish sashimi. Simple is good.
It says citrus olive oil. That's it. Really basic, really delicious. That sounds like me. How about you?
Melanie Avalon
So you're just getting that?
Barry Conrad
I'm gonna get that from the fish section, and then from the meat eater I'm gonna also get the strip loin Akaushi Wagyu, which is with potato puree, baby gem lettuce salad. So I have, like, a bit of a surf and turf situation going on.
What about you?
Melanie Avalon
Okay. I'm really excited about this.
Well, I would need to know... So you have to ask. We don't know what the fish is. So, like, that whole fish sashimi, we don't know what it is. So it would really depend on what it is. Um, so if it's a low-mercury fish, so if it's, like, a, if it's, like, trout or... They're not gonna have tilapia. Trout or tilapia or branzino or that, that fish that I can't remember from last time, then I would get a whole... No, I would get, I would get it live fire grilled. So I would get, like, the whole fish. It comes with Donnos tiara sauce, herb oil, and garlic chip. I would get that on the side. I... Can I have, can I, like, taste some of your whole fish sashimi? 'Cause that looks really good, but I don't want, like, a whole thing. And then, yeah, I want the whole fish. I love getting a whole fish.
Barry Conrad
There is something primal about that.Like, I don't know.It's just cool seeing the whole thing on the plate, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I, and it, and it takes longer to eat 'cause you have to... You know, it's not, like, pre... You have to dig around and stuff. If I don't like the whole fish that they have, then I might get the Ora King salmon. I do like Ora King salmon.
So it's grilled over wood fire, salmon roe, Meyer lemon. Or Maya, sorry, sorry, Meyer lemon. And then I think I'm, I think I'd be good.
Barry Conrad
I've asked you this before.Do fish bones bother you or do you like to have it, like, filet?
Melanie Avalon
So the only reason they bother me is because it's so easy to, like, stab yourself with them 'cause they're so... You know what I'm talk- Have you ha- I mean, do you... Like, 'cause they're really skinny And you, if you're eating the fish, you just puncture your mouth. Like, that's been my experience.
You have to eat slow.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that, that's not for me.
Melanie Avalon
We could do a st- We should do a whole fish diet. I bet people, if it was, like, with the bones, I bet people would lose so much weight because it would... First of all, they'd be eating fish, super healthy, assuming it's low mercury, and then people would have to eat slow.
It would slow people down.
Barry Conrad
Also, but also that to me, like, that's it's not as fun when you have to slow down. It's different if you can choose to slow down. But if you have to because you're being inhibited from getting to the food because of the bones, that can kind of be annoying sometimes.
Melanie Avalon
You don't like the bones?
Barry Conrad
If it's, like, fine bones, it's annoying.But if it's bigger bones, it's fine.
Melanie Avalon
What's actually, you know what actually might be worse? Uh, the worst.
So whenever I get a whole fish from Whole Foods, which I do on occasion as you know, and I bake it and everything, I get them to filet it for me and de-bone it. The problem is when you think the pr- That's when you puncture yourself really is when you think it's de-boned, but they, like, leave in some little pieces. And so then you're just, like, cho- You're, like, eating fast, like, chomping down, and then you're like... You puncture your mouth.
Barry Conrad
That's disappointing.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That happened to me last time I did that.
But I lo- I, yeah, I love, I love whole fish. I, I feel like at restaurants they normally de-bone it. Maybe not in Europe, but here we Americans are... We're not resilient. Oh, you remember what they had on the, the Bazaar meat menu?
Barry Conrad
Uh, which one?
Melanie Avalon
The one we did last time.Do you remember what whole animal they had?
Barry Conrad
Oh, the pig.Oh, that was, that was wild.Like, maybe it was a wild pig.But it was, that's cra- Like, a whole pig on the table.
Melanie Avalon
Okay.So is there a dessert menu?
Barry Conrad
Beverage maybe, but I don't, I don't see dessert.But let's, should we click on-
Melanie Avalon
Was there a dessert menu last time?
Barry Conrad
I don't think so.
Melanie Avalon
Well, for m- it doesn't really matter anyways because for me, I would be getting more something that I had earlier on for dessert easily.
Barry Conrad
And I might copy you.I might copy if that's the case.
Melanie Avalon
Or just because they don't have a...No, they, I mean, they'll have a dessert menu.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, they should.But if they didn't, I mean, I would like to see what a, what a savory dessert would be.
Melanie Avalon
It's so great. It's like you just keep eating more meat and seafood.
So wine by the glass, I would have to... They have a very extensive list, and they have a lot that looks promising. So as per usual, I would get a something European, lower alcohol, probably like a... Actually, I might, I might have to go to the, the by the bottle list. But I would look for something European, red, dry, maybe a Cab Franc or a Pinot Noir. How about you?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I would get a Daisy de Grana cocktail first, which is a Mi- Milagro silver tequila, Magdalena orange, lime, pomegranate, salt, air. Yeah, that, yeah, it sounds really good.
And then a bottle of white wine that some- like, one of their waitstaff can really recommend that will complement the seafood best.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, do you like, I, okay, do you like Sauvignon Blanc?
Barry Conrad
I just haven't had the best experiences, but I'm open to it if it's a good one.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I mean, I don't like it, but they have a winery that I really like from my favorite valley, but they only have a Sauvignon Blanc. But you'd have to have the whole bottle because I don't... I'm trying to see, I'm trying to see if they have a Pinot Gris.
It's, um, Hippo- Hippolyte Reverdy Sauvignon Blanc. Let me see if they have... Oh. I would recommend getting one of their, one of their French white wines. Um, I'm just seeing really quickly if, if I see a bottle that I like.
Barry Conrad
I like a Chablis type vibe or a Pinot Grigio type vibe.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. They don't have a Pinot Grigio from France, but they probably do from Italy if you go to that section.
Okay, they have a very solid by the bottle list, so I will definitely be able to find something.
Barry Conrad
Either way, it'll be a long dinner.It'll be a really delicious, long, amazing dinner.
Melanie Avalon
I know.Well, you know you can go to the one in New York.
Barry Conrad
I actually forgot about that.I'm gonna copy and paste that now.
Melanie Avalon
They have a, oh, they have a bar and they have meat.I wonder if the bar is...I'm, I'm assuming it's in the same place.Oh, it's at the Ritz Carlton on West 28th Street.Do you know where that is?
Barry Conrad
I do know where that is actually.The Bazaar New York.Writing that down.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, so the, their bar is in the lobby of the Ritz Carlton. And then the restaurant is, I guess it's just in the Ritz Carlton somewhere.
Awesome. Awesome. Well, friends, we hope you enjoyed your time with us today. Thank you so much for the questions and all the things. If you have your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode485. We will put links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are IFPodcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and Barry is Barry_Conrad. So anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
No, thank you so much everyone for tuning in once again, and we can't wait to talk to you next time.See you later, Mel.
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week.Bye.
Barry Conrad
Bye.
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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