Episode 243: Fasted Exercise, Post Surgery Biohacks, Antibiotics, Probiotics, Fermented Foods, Nut Milk, Soy, Veganism, And More!

Intermittent Fasting


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Dec 12

Welcome to Episode 243 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

GREEN CHEF: Get easy, affordable meals made with organic ingredients for a variety of lifestyles - including Paleo, Keto, Vegan, and Vegetarian - shipped straight to your home! Go Tgreenchef.com/ifpodcast10 And Use Code IFPODCAST10 To Get 10 Free Meals AND Free Shipping!

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BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At MelanieAvalon.com/beautycounter, And Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

Clean(ish): Eat (Mostly) Clean, Live (Mainly) Clean, and Unlock Your Body's Natural Ability to Self-Clean

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Listener Q&A: Bianca - What Supplements To Take!

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Listener Q&A: Paula - Hello Again! Thank You And More Random Qs.

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Listener Q&A: Brittany - COFFEEEEEE


Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 243 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Gin Stephens, author of Fast. Feast. Repeat.: The Comprehensive Guide to Delay, Don't Deny Intermittent Fasting. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ginstephens.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a cup of black coffee, a mug of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. 

Hi, friends. Winter aka sick season is upon us and we all know that this is the time of year to take extra care to protect ourselves from germs and bacteria. Of course, you can do everything right, wash your hands, keep your hands away from your face, carry around some hand sanitizer, but you still get sick. That's why you need to protect your body from the inside not just the out. And you can do that by building up your immune system with some high quality and high strength probiotics. That's why I'm really excited about P3-OM. P3-OM is a patented probiotic that might be the most effective probiotic ever developed. P3-OM fights bacteria and strengthens immunity. It's basically a germ fighting superhero. But it also helps digestion, it speeds up metabolism, and increases energy throughout the day, which is way more than you might have thought probiotics could do. And just when I thought P3-OM couldn't get any more powerful, I watched a video which you can see at p3om.com/ifpodcast of the probiotic literally breaking down a piece of steak. After I saw that, I was all in. You guys are going to be so amazed, too. Definitely, check out that video.  

Here's some more awesome news. You can get 10% off P3-OM right now by going to p3om.com/ifpodcast and typing in the coupon code IFPODCAST10. And here's the thing. If you order it and it's not everything you hoped for, BiOptimizer support team will give you all of your money back, no questions asked. So, if you want to protect yourself from whatever bug is floating around this year, and take your digestion to a new level, visit p3om.com/ifpodcast to get a 10% discount with the coupon code IFPODCAST10. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right now back to the show.  

Are you fasting clean inside and out? Did you know that one of our largest exposures to toxic compounds including endocrine disrupters, which mess with our hormones, obesogens which literally cause our body to store and gain weight, as well as carcinogens linked to cancer is actually through our skincare? Europe has banned thousands of these compounds for being toxic, and the US has only banned around 10. It's honestly shocking. When you're putting on your conventional skincare makeup, you're likely putting toxic compounds directly into your body. These compounds can make you feel bad, can make it really hard to lose weight, can affect your hormones, your mood, your health. And ladies, if you're thinking of having kids, when you have a child, these compounds actually go directly through the placenta into the newborn. That means your skincare makeup that you're putting on today actually affects the health of future generations.  

Did you know that conventional lipstick for example often test high for lead, and the half-life of lead can be up to 30 years in your bones? That means when you put on your lipstick, 30 years later, half of that lead might still be in your body. Thankfully, there's an easy, easy solution to this. There's a company called Beautycounter and they were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient in their products is extensively tested to be safe for your skin. You can actually feel good about what you put on. And on top of that, their products actually work. That's because they're not “all natural.” They actually combine the best of both worlds, both synthetic and natural ingredients to create products that actually support the health of your skin and make your skin look amazing. They have skincare lines for all your skin types, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, anti-aging and brightening peels and vitamin C serums, and incredible makeup. If you see my makeup on Instagram, that's all Beautycounter. You can shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter 

And if you're thinking of making safe skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely suggest becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership, totally completely worth it. Also, definitely join my clean beauty email list at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list and join me on my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. I do a weekly giveaway every single week for Beautycounter, people share their experience and product reviews, and so much more. And again, the link to shop with us is melanieavalon.com/beautycounter. All right now enjoy the show. 

Melanie Avalon: Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 243 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Gin Stephens.  

Gin Stephens: Hi, everybody.  

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Gin?  

Gin Stephens: I am doing great. I'm getting super excited. Well, the time, this comes out December 13th, we are just really close to the release of Clean(ish). 

Melanie Avalon: That's very exciting.  

Gin Stephens: It is and so, I have been flushing out my plans for what we're going to do. And we're going to have a book study in the Delay, Don't Deny Community.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, nice.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah. So, anybody who's listening, if you would like to take part in that book study, go ahead and preorder now. Even if you don't want to take part in the book study, I'd love you to preorder now. It comes out January 4th, you're going to want to have it. But if you go to ginstephens.com/community, you can join the community. And we're going to be doing the book study right there. Like we're going to be walking our way because Clean(ish) is not the kind of book you sit down and you read the whole book, and then you're like, "All right, I read that book." No, it's like you work through it. It was written by a teacher and it's very teachery. [laughs] So, it's like a step-by-step process. So, we're going to go through the chapters and take our time, we're also going to be having a book study on the Life Lessons Podcast starting January 5th. So, January 4th, preorder now, January 4th is when you'll get the book. January 5th, an episode of Life Lessons will come out, getting us kind of started on the book study, then we'll have every other episode will be about Clean(ish) topics. And then in the DDD community, ginstephens.com/community, we'll be actually having a community book study where we work our way through it and support each other as we become more cleanish.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, that is very exciting.  

Gin Stephens: I have so much work to do. [laughs] But it's teacher work and I love it.  

Melanie Avalon: Did you finish recording the audiobook?  

Gin Stephens: Yes. I'm so glad. I love to talk, but I don't love to read my books out loud. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's a lot.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, recording a podcast, love it. Recording an audio book, would rather stab daggers into my eyes. Not really but you know what I mean.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it is. It's a lot.  

Gin Stephens: It's tedious. The word is tedious.  

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm very excited to read Clean(ish). I haven't read it yet.  

Gin Stephens: I know. I don't want to send you a copy till we have the good ones in. The ones that are out right now that people have the early reader copies. Like the moderators in my group got them and a few people got them, but there's a lot of formatting flaws in the early reader copy, because it was based on a very early version you know, how that works. And so, they didn't have the chapters formatted properly. So, you're reading and then there's something that looks like a heading, but it's really a new chapter title, and you can't really tell. We fixed all that. It's perfect now, but it's just weird in the early reader copies. I like it to be right when people see it.  

Melanie Avalon: I understand. I'm excited to read it.  

Gin Stephens: You need the good copy. So, anyway, January 4, it's coming out.  

Melanie Avalon: Although, depending on, I might listen to the audiobook actually. 

Gin Stephens: This is really a book it's-- I think its-- I know you love to listen to audiobooks. This is one, I mean, I'm not going to say no one get the audiobook. People will enjoy the audiobook, but I think you also want a paperback copy. This is one of those times when just the audio is not quite going to be enough if that makes sense. You want the paperback and you can supplement with the audiobook to listen to the chapter. I mean, it's totally up to you, but this is one you're going to want to look at.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, so, I might do the audiobook and then--  

Gin Stephens: I'll make sure you get a copy of the final. You do not have to buy one. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. Well, also, preorder to support. Let me write that down.  

Gin Stephens: Well, I appreciate that. That's really nice of you, preorder the audible then if you think you want that.  

Melanie Avalon: I will. Oh, perfect. Yeah, that's what I'll do.  

Gin Stephens: You can use an Audible credit. Oh, my God, Audible is sponsoring this episode.  

Melanie Avalon: Are they really?  

Gin Stephens: I didn't even know but yes. [laughs] There'll be an ad coming later everyone at some point.  

Melanie Avalon: Listen to the Audible ad.  

Gin Stephens: But yes. So, you can use one of your Audible credits for Clean(ish). But you also are going to want the paperback for Clean(ish) just-- Like I said, it's not like Fast. Feast. Repeat., I feel like a lot of people would like to have the paperback for that one, but the Audible is enough if you're a really good listener. But for Clean(ish), I think you're going to want both. Not just because I'm trying to sell you two books, I'm not. 

Melanie Avalon: I understand exactly what you're saying. Some books, just because of the formatting and the content, they just need that print version for the full experience.  

Gin Stephens: Yes, you got it. So, anyway, I'm very excited about the book coming out, and I really hope people love it. I want people to really understand the 'ish' part. Because I know that when people read it, they're going to be wanting to do everything 100%. But it's the 'ish' that makes it doable. Because we can't do everything on day one. I don't do everything. I'm ish, cleanish. 

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm very excited. So, for listeners, we'll put links in the show notes to all of those things. And the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode243 

Gin Stephens: So, what's up with you? Tell me. 

Melanie Avalon: Can I tell you about my serrapeptase launch?  

Gin Stephens: I was knowing you would and excited about it. People haven't gotten it though, have they?  

Melanie Avalon: Some have.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, ooh, that's so exciting.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. We haven't talked since then. I was going to tell you but I was like, I'll just wait and tell you on the show. So, then, it's not repetitive. So, well, I have learned so much about so much [laughs] very short amount of time. So, as listeners are likely familiar, I released my first supplement, which is serrapeptase that we've been talking about for years on this show. Since, almost day one of the show, we've been talking about it. It's an enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. You take it in the fasted state, it goes into your bloodstream, and it breaks down potentially problematic proteins, so, it can help things like allergies, and inflammation, and fibroids, and it helps with wound healing, and it may reduce cholesterol, and it can breakdown amyloid plaque, it just does so many things.  

Gin Stephens: And I tell you, I actually saw something about it the other day in the scheme of like COVID.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes, there is a study about that, that I am not allowed to talk about.  

Gin Stephens: Okay. Well, I just mentioned it, but I saw something about that because you know, you got to be really careful. You can't say you know anything about COVID but I saw it, and it made me think "Ooh, maybe I should take serrapeptase." 

Melanie Avalon: There's a really good study about serrapeptase and COVID. It's funny though, working with the company that I work with. We just want to be super careful. 

Gin Stephens: Oh, yeah. Can't make any claims about COVID. But people can read the study themselves.  

Melanie Avalon: I have an epic blog post about it on my website. So, if you go to melanieavalon.com/serrapeptasescience, that's my original blog post that I wrote with a deep dive into the science, and it does have that study referenced. I was doing a shorter, modified version for the supplement website, which is avalonx.us. And I was talking with my partner and he was like, "You got to take out everything COVID." So, I still had it in the references. He's like, "Nope, [laughs] take it out of there." He's like, "Nothing on the site." Yes, if you want the full version, go to the melanieavalon.com. But in any case, things I have learned, so, I really wanted to do a midnight release because midnight releases are so exciting. It reminds me of, what things come out at midnight? Like Taylor Swift's music or book releases, Harry Potter. So, I want to do it for the excitement, nothing to do with my sleep cycle being a night person. So, I got so many comments from people saying that, a midnight release was really only for the night people. Like that it was wasn't fair for morning people. So, that was a lesson learned that I don't know, to be wary of that.  

Then, so, the day of the release, we realized there was something wrong in the website that I had created. Again, avalonx.us. So, they decided-- the company I work with, MD Logic, they decided to rebuild my entire website themselves, which was insane and brilliant and I'm so grateful. But so, they rebuilt all of it to fix that error. It went live beyond my control around like 11 instead of midnight. Once it did people started ordering because I guess they were checking, so, I was like, "Oh, well, people have been upset that it's a midnight release, so I'll just go ahead and announce it since it's up." So, I sent an email and I announced that it was up early, but then people got mad because they had set their alarm clocks for midnight, and they were like, "Why did you release it early? You said it was midnight." So, I learned so much. 

Gin Stephens: Well, and also, some things are out of our control because when you're releasing something new, it sometimes just happens. You just don't know how long it's going to take.  

Melanie Avalon: The site was going to go up at midnight, but then it went up early. I was trying to make people happy because I received feedback.  

Gin Stephens: I know. We try so hard.  

Melanie Avalon: I just want to make everybody happy. [laughs]  

Gin Stephens: Impossible. I've learned impossible through moving the community, we had the first one, the DDD social network, and the platform ended up being unacceptable. So, instead of using the whole--, we spent tens of thousands of dollars on that platform. So, for it to be unacceptable, we just abandoned it because that was not okay for the community. So, we lost money on that part of it, but anyway, we moved everybody. But no matter how hard we tried to move everybody in a way that made them all happy, there were people mad at me. And I'm like, "I just want you to know, I'm doing the best I can." Because the alternative would have been just to stay there and suffer through it being awful till the year was up but we didn't want to do that. So, no solution was perfect. That's what I'm trying to say with that story. No solution is perfect, you're just do the best you can, and if people get mad, and can't roll with it, there's nothing you can do. 

Melanie Avalon: The reason people were so eager was, I was pitching that it would probably sell out which I-- Oh, it was such a moment because I just really had no idea like would it sell out, but I thought it might, but I just didn't know how it was going to go, and it went so well. [giggles] So, it sold out-- the first run, sold out in less than eight hours. So, there was a big spike at around midnight, and then there was a big spike in the morning, but that's what I'm telling people.  

Gin Stephens: Okay, well, so the people, when I went early, it's not like people missed it.  

Melanie Avalon: But the first 300 bottles were super discounted. So, I think, yeah. 

Gin Stephens: Well, those super fans who were checking early, [laughs] they got lucky. That's what I think. Sorry, if the super fans just-- [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: So, there was about two hours where it said it was out of stock on the website, and that's when they were-- at MD Logic, they were trying to figure out if they could place another order. They were trying to forget the logistics of the second run. So, there was like a two-hour period where people were checking and thought that it was sold out and that they had missed it. So, I had to do like damage control, and then two hours later it was available for the second run to preorder. I realized, like, in my messaging, I said, "You can now preorder the second run, which would ship in December," but people thought that they couldn't order until December. I've just learned a lot about clarity. But in any case, the takeaway is that, it went so well, and you can order it now. You can preorder it. The people who have ordered, although, when this comes out, this will be a little bit older news, but people who ordered that first run, by the time this comes out there's should have shipped. They probably will have received it. And then people who are ordering from the current run assuming, it's not sold out. That is probably shipping around mid-December. So, I think when this, because this episode comes out mid-December, right?  

Gin Stephens: Yep, December 13th.  

Melanie Avalon: So, it should be shipping around that time. People listening right now, their orders should be shipping if they had already ordered at the second run. I'm just so grateful like I've just been walking around in the state of happiness, and gratitude, and excitement for a few reasons, oh, my God, I will start crying. Okay. [laughs]  

Gin Stephens: I get it. Look, when I was reading a section of Clean(ish) out loud where I talked about Cal, and his wife Kate, I started crying while I was reading the audiobook. I'm like, "I've got to read that again because now I'm crying." [laughs] We get emotional about stuff. I get it.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm just so grateful because this is something I've been wanting to do for so long, and the guy I work with, Scott at the company, we just really, really are on the same page, and understand each other, and it's just like the most beautiful power team. I'm so happy about how the product turned out, the serrapeptase. I get no GI distress with it, which is something that a lot of people experience. I've been noticing so many benefits from it. It's just really, really incredible, and amazing, and I'm so excited that everybody ordered, and that it sold out so fast, because I was so nervous about-- I really wanted to like, I guess, "perform” because I was working with this company, and I really wanted them to see that my audience really was interested.  

Gin Stephens: Well, because imagine if you had released it, and put it out, and you sold like five bottles.  

Melanie Avalon: My brother texted the next morning and was like, "How did it go?" I was like, "We sold out in less than eight hours." Then my mom was like, "Oh, good." She was like, "I was super worried that nobody was going to buy it." I was like, "Mom?" [laughs] She said, she said-- she said when my brother texted that she was like, "Oh, no. Don't ask that." But now I'm just really thrilled because so that serrapeptase now should be available ongoing. You shouldn't have to worry about it going out of stock, because hopefully we'll be on top of it. Now, we're developing my second one. I know probably the next five ones that I want to do because now, all the supplements I'm currently taking I want to make my own version because then I can really feel good about all of it, and then, I can have something I can really recommend to people. So, I'm really excited. So, the second one, I'm not going to say what it is, but I will say, it's something that we talked about a lot on this podcast, and people asked me for my recommended brand a lot.  

Gin Stephens: All right, does it start with M?  

Melanie Avalon: No.  

Gin Stephens: Okay, well then, I don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: I'll tell you off air.  

Gin Stephens: So, yes.  

Melanie Avalon: So, that was a long story, but I'm just so excited and listeners I would love, love, love, love to hear your experience with my brand specifically. And so, you can get it at avalonx.us. Some people have received their bottles and they're posting pictures of themselves with the bottles in the group and it makes me so happy.  

Gin Stephens: I know. That's how I feel when someone's holding Clean(ish). Like someone that's gotten the early reader copies, one of my moderators, or it just makes me really excited to see.  

Melanie Avalon: It's exciting to see, it's like your dreams manifested in a physical form.  

Gin Stephens: It's right because it comes out of your head, and then you make it happen, and then, yeah.  

Melanie Avalon: The bottle like holding it like it's everything I could want. The way it looks, the actual product, I'm very excited.  

Gin Stephens: I'm so excited. Well, job well done.  

Melanie Avalon: Thank you. You, too.  

Gin Stephens: Thank you.  

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Melanie Avalon: Long intro. Shall we jump into some questions?  

Gin Stephens: Yes.  

Melanie Avalon: All right. So, the first question actually relates to what we were just talking about and I thought it would might be something good to clarify, especially, after telling you guys my whole story about my supplement launch. So, this comes from Bianca and the subject is: "What supplements to take! And Bianca says, "Hi. I always love hearing the information you ladies have to share. Sometimes I hear about new health trends, but I never jump on it until you guys have done your research and share it on the show. So, thank you for being a reliable source of information that I can trust to objectively evaluate all the new health packs. So, my question is this. What supplements do I need to take if I am generally healthy? I know, Melanie, you are obsessed with so many things, lol. But what are the supplements that I absolutely need to take? Do you ever suggest a multivitamin? I am 45 years old and I have to lose 30 to 40 pounds. I do take meds for an underactive thyroid. I could always use more energy or a mood booster, especially, once a month when I get my period. I don't get reflux or constipated." I just want to say, "I'm very jealous of you, Bianca."  

She says, "I don't get brain fog or anxious. My knees hurt a little from running but it seems like normal aging. I currently take ginkgo biloba, fish oil, and vitamin C. After binge hearing your shows, I suddenly feel the need to drink apple cider vinegar, chlorophyll, magnesium shots, serrapeptase?" And then she says, "(silkworm stuff and CBD oil)." Should I-- "For someone like me that has no specific complaints or ailments, would we need to supplement anything to our diet?" Gin, what do you take on a regular basis? Since you and I are closer in age perhaps you could share with me what you'd like to take. I also want to say, how much I appreciate the two different experiences.  

Gin Stephens: All right, well, I'm glad to answer this. But first I want to say one thing. I have realized that supplements are incredibly personal. What I take might not be right for you. Here's an example of that. One of my friends was taking some supplements that she said that changed her life. It's actually my friend, Sheri that cohosts Life Lessons with me. I'm like, "Oh, well I need to take that supplement that changed your life." So, I started taking it. I can't remember what it was. This is a couple of years ago maybe and I started getting this crazy anxiety and weirdness, and I'm like, "Could this be the supplements, I looked it up?" Yes. [laughs] She takes it. She has like a different genetic profile than me and it works for someone with her, whatever genetic, something or other that I don't have. So, I don't need that supplement. If you don't need it and you take it, it can lead anxiety. So, there are very few supplements that I would consider to be universal. Like serrapeptase for example, I took it for a while for a targeted reason. I had fibroids, I do think that it helped. I do think it has broad benefits for a lot of people, but I'm very keep it simple when it comes to supplements.  

I take magnesium every single day and I have for years. It helps me to sleep. I really notice a difference if I forget it. I did change my brand over the years. Right now, I'm doing BiOptimizers, and I think the brand I used to take changed their formulation because it stopped being effective for me. I think I wasn't absorbing it, whatever. So, it's really important to find a brand or something that works really well for you. So, I take that. As far as multivitamins go, there's a brand called Ritual that sponsors IF Stories and I do take that one, ritual.com/ifstories. It's really minimalist and clean. So, as far as like vitamins go, they really are transparent with their ingredients. As far as other supplements like as needed basis, like I had a little touch of a flu a few weeks ago. So, I supplemented with things that are known to boost the immune system, zinc, quercetin, C and D. But I just did that for that targeted period of time where I needed a little more immune system support, I felt. So, that's really it.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes, we are on very similar pages, and I think it's funny, because I think people might assume that I am about all the supplements all the time, and I'm really not. I'm actually pretty minimalist myself with supplements. Everything that you said, Gin about us being unique, and I'm all about the actually the minimal effective dose, because I went through a period where I was taking all the supplements and I got really overwhelmed with that. It's really hard to know what's doing what. So, I'm all about being very specific. There's a word being very, just puts the word.  

Gin Stephens: Intentional?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, intentional with what you're taking. So, the serrapeptase for example, I think, it has just such broad ranging benefits kind of like Gin mentioned that I think, most people can benefit from it in some capacity. So, it's one of the reasons I wanted to make it for my first one is, it is one of the only supplements that I actually have been taking consistently every day for years.  

Gin Stephens: And honestly, one reason I stopped was because I got spooked about things on Amazon, and not sure what brand to buy, and I was like, "Well, never mind." [laughs] I might would take a Melanie Avalon brand version.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. After developing it now, people were asking in the meantime until yours is available, which one should I order and I was like, "Honestly, I can't recommend any of them now." 

Gin Stephens: Once you understand, yeah, yeah.  

Melanie Avalon: So, that's an example of one that I think most people can probably benefit from it in some capacity. Beyond that, so, Gin mentioned vitamin D, that's one where I think people really should be getting their blood levels tested for vitamin D, because I think, it's super important for so many things, and for immunity, and a lot of people are low. 

Gin Stephens: But you can't know unless you get it tested and that really helps you dial in what you need.  

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. So, I love InsideTracker because they always test vitamin D, but your conventional doctor can run it as well. But you probably have to ask because most doctors aren't just randomly testing it. I think when it comes to things like digestive enzymes and HCl, that would be case by case basis of, do you have digestive issues and do those help you? They helped me so much but if you don't have digestive issues, if you're not experiencing that, I wouldn't worry about it and it sounds like Bianca, she doesn't experience digestive-- Well she talks about not getting reflux or constipated.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I don't take any kind of digestive support stuff, zero.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I'm jealous. It's a gamechanger for me taking the digestive support. Then, so, vitamin C, I actually don't recommend that, especially, if you're taking it while fasted. I don't recommend it as like a daily supplement while fasted.  

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah. That's also important. Supplements, not all supplements are great during the fast but some are. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I think there are studies on this taking vitamin C can actually be counterproductive for your body's endogenous production of antioxidants. So, I don't really recommend taking vitamin C is like a thing. But if you get sick for example like Gin said that might be a case where you'd want to high dose vitamin C. Fish oil, I'm perpetually on the fence about. I go back and forth. I'll listen to one person being like never take fish oil and then I'll listen to Rhonda Patrick doing an episode, I'm like, "Oh, everybody should be taking fish oil." But I know one thing. I think, most of them are often rancid. 

Gin Stephens: Right. Quality is so-- The problem with supplements, that's why I'm so skeptical of like, I have a section in Clean(ish) where I talk about, like she said, she takes ginkgo biloba, and I have a whole section on Clean(ish) where I talk about a study they did where it like, wasn't even in there. I mean, it was crazy.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's crazy. Actually, speaking of, because I've been getting questions about what testing we do. So, for my serrapeptase for example, it's tested for four different things, pre and post production. So, when they're creating the supplement they test it for toxins, for purity, for active ingredient, for-- It's on the website. I can put a link to in the show notes. But basically, that it is what it says it is that it is effective, and then they do a separate test just on the serrapeptase because they have to do an enzyme test to make sure the enzyme is active, and then they do a batch test, which is where with a finished product, they randomly pull jars and tests that it's still everything that it says it is. 

Gin Stephens: Like quality control-- random quality control stuff, that makes sense.  

Melanie Avalon: So, I think that is so important and minor tested for heavy metals and mold which is so, so huge to me. 

Gin Stephens: Yeah, you don't want to be putting that in. [laughs] We want to be taken out the bad stuff not putting more bad in. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. So, I just think this is all so, so important. The fish oil for example, I shudder thinking about it now, like we often order that off of Amazon, and Amazon, especially, during the summer are really, really hot warehouses. I just would not order fish oil off of Amazon. It is probably been sitting, especially, in the hot months.  

Gin Stephens: Well, then you have to look at, that's not the only place but the warehouse or a truck. I mean, it's hard to know about anything. Honestly, who knows how it got to the store. So, when you really start thinking about supplements, you start going down the rabbit hole of-- That's why I take so few. 

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. And even serrapeptase is temperature sensitive. So, that's another case where you'd want to be buying direct from somewhere where it's been climate controlled. So, if I ever do a fish oil in the future, I think, it would need to be a little bit down the line because I think it's going to be super expensive. Because I want to do all the criteria to keep it cold shipping and all of that. That's probably going to be like down the line if I do a fish oil. But I'm just looking at the other things she said. Interesting that from the show, she thinks she should drink apple cider vinegar. I guess we talked about taking it like before eating maybe. Chlorophyll, I do take chlorophyll. It's good for iron levels, but I take that with my food. Magnesium, Gin said, she benefits from, CBD is something that has helped me so much, but I realize that people respond differently to CBD.  

Gin Stephens: They really do. Yeah, one of my family members responds great to it like amazing. It helps with mood and for me though, it made me-- I took it for a while because it feels [unintelligible [00:32:55] and I took it and I tried to find my right dose but basically, I never found a dose that made me feel like better, different like it was doing anything. Does that make sense? So, I stopped taking it. But I believe in it because I've seen it make a difference. So, I'm not like anti-CBD. I think it is powerful and amazing. But you need to meet with the people and they will talk you through it. If there's a right dose for you, they'll help you find it. But the answer might be, you don't need that.  

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. For me, it's a game changer. Like a game changer. It makes me sad because they run whitelisted ads through my Facebook account. So, basically like you might be on Facebook, and you'll see a sponsored ad for Feals from my account. I mean, CBD is such a touchy topic. So, a lot of comments are very abrasive and intense and I'm like, "I shouldn't be like I'm not making this up. Like this supplement changes my life."  

Gin Stephens: No, I've really seen it make an amazing difference in other people. I've seen it firsthand with my eyes in my house. But for me, the magnesium helps me sleep, and I don't have anything that I need help with that. I don't know. Whatever it does in your brain, my brain is okay with. I've got other things in my brain that might need you know like the magnesium, but we're also different. I really think it's the thing that, like now, I pretty much sleep through the night all the time. I think it took a while of finding my dose and doing it consistently, but I take it every single night, and I think it has modulated my entire cannabinoid system. 

Gin Stephens: That's good. You know what changed mine is changing my magnesium. Honestly, I am sleeping great, and I am even drinking a little bit more alcohol, and it's making a huge difference. It's not making me wake up. After if I have like a glass of wine, I don't instantly wake up not able to sleep like I had been for so long. It could, maybe, my body is calmed down after going through menopause, that could be it, because some people told me they had trouble with one. While they were going through menopause then it got better, but I really think it's changing my magnesium that made a difference. But it really, once you find what works for your body, huge difference.  

Melanie Avalon: We do have a discount for Feals which is I think one of our best offers and it's feals.com/ifpodcast. It changes around, but it's usually 40% to 50% off somewhere in there. 

Gin Stephens: Yes. 

Melanie Avalon: But like Gin said, like I've said, it's really just a matter of individuality. Like another one I take every single day is berberine. I've seen wearing a CGM that that really does really nice things for my blood sugar levels. It actually really helps my digestive issues as well, which I didn't anticipate. But that's something that I just really like in my proverbial and real cabinet. That'd be something where I think if you've done a CGM, or you've taken blood tests, and you've seen high blood sugar levels, that might be something to play with. But yeah, we could say a lot more about supplements. But something else I will suggest is not trying multiple supplements at one time, because then like new ones--  

Gin Stephens: Don't change everything up. Think of it as a one at a time tweaking kind of thing. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Oh, another one I think a lot of people can benefit from in general is NR and NMN, which are the NAD precursors. But that's another one that I really want to do one, but it's also going to need to be down the line because that is another supplement that needs to be cold, and it's light sensitive, and they just don't really talk about that. So, that's something that I would want to-- cold ship for example. I've so many plans. But yeah, hopefully, that was helpful.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I think it was. There's just so much confusion about supplements. And it's because again, we're all different. So, when my friend said, "Take this one, it's--" or she said, "I take this one." She didn't tell me to take it. She said, "I take this, it's changed my life." I'm like, "Well, I'm going to change my life, and it made me worse and bad and awful." Then I was like, "Well, I've never going to just take something because someone said they take it again."  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Another one I do think a lot of people might benefit from is depending on what their issues are as progesterone. I'll be airing an episode, I think, in January with Dr. Michael Platt, and he pretty much thinks that progesterone can fix all ailments for everybody all the time, which I don't know if it's that intense, but I personally have been taking it, and it's radically helped my sister, got rid of her PMDD. I can put a link in the show notes. I have a discount code for them.  

Gin Stephens: That's another one, I would recommend having working with a doctor who's skilled in that and testing your levels. Dr. Anna Cabeca always says, "Test, don't guess" [laughs] which I like. Just because you don't know what you need.  

Melanie Avalon: He makes the argument that with progesterone, there's not really a issue with-- 

Gin Stephens: Taking too much.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that like, basically, if you have any sort of issue that might be related which really, he thinks is almost everything. You can start taking it and you'll see pretty fast if it's helping.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, well, that's interesting. So, he has his own kind of it.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes, and it's amazing.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, well, send me that info. I might look at that.  

Melanie Avalon: I bumped up his episode earlier than it should have been released just because I want to tell everybody about it. And we just got the discount code. So, I will put a link in the show notes, too. I think it's like a 10% off code. Yeah, that's the one. I said this multiple times, but my sister has had PMDD for 10 years, and they got rid of it in a week.  

Gin Stephens: All right, shall we move on to our next question from Paula?  

Melanie Avalon: Yes, and she has a few different questions.  

Gin Stephens: She does. Paula says, "Hello, again. Thank you" and more random questions. You want just take them one at a time? 

Melanie Avalon: Sure.  

Gin Stephens: She says, "Gin and Melanie, thank you for answering my questions on the podcast. You're my Monday workout buddies and I am a fan." I love that. People will often tell me they love to walk and listen to the podcast or my other podcast. I'm sure people tell you that, too. I just I love it. It's like we're regular and we're in their head.  

Melanie Avalon: I know. Few DM me on Instagram or few reach out to me on Facebook groups, I really try to engage with everybody who reaches out to me. It's getting hard. But I do try to and people often say, they feel like they know me and I know that feeling because I listened to podcasts and I feel like I know the people, although, now, I often do know them.  

Gin Stephens: Well, that's funny. Well, here's the thing is that we are just really ourselves. I mean, I don't know how to be any other way. Love me or hate me, this is who I am.  

Melanie Avalon: And I've been thinking about that because so, my Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, it's me but it's like interview Melanie. It's like Melanie having an intense conversation with an expert, but this is just like me.  

Gin Stephens: This is us. And you know what? On Intermittent Fasting Stories, I'm able to really be myself, too. Just because it's like me having coffee with a friend is how it feels. I kind of like this one and on Life Lessons. So, anyone who listens to all my podcasts, it's exactly how I am. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: I can attest to that.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah. All right, so, anyways, she says, "A few more random questions. Number one, I exercise fasted like a lot of people in the IF community, has anyone ever researched if exercising fasted would be equal to an extra hour or two of fasting. For example, I close my window at 9 PM, exercise from 6 AM to 7:30 AM, and only open my window at 3:30 PM. Would that mean that I fasted more than 18 and a half hours?" No. [laughs] Sorry, I had to just answer that. Now, Melanie's going to give a longer answer.  

Melanie Avalon: I knew you were going to say, no.  

Gin Stephens: You knew I was going to say no? Well, maybe because you didn't fast more.  

Melanie Avalon: I was like, "Wait for it." [laughs]  

Gin Stephens: You fasted for 18 and a half. That's how much you fasted. But it's a lot more subtle than just-- Here's what happens when you fast 18 and a half hours every single day, all things being equaled. That's not the case. So, 18 and a half might not be equal to 18 and a half. 

Melanie Avalon: Right. So, no, you did not fast more than 18 and a half hours. But I think the question that she's getting at which is actually a very good question. It's something definitely worth thinking about. The processes that happen, or the actions that transpire, or things that happen when you're fasting can also be instigated, or upregulated, or increased, enhanced by exercise. So, there would be fat burning, there would be autophagy. So, it's a little bit of a different question but basically, I do think, if you do exercise while fasted, the benefits that you were trying to achieve from fasting, you might get those same benefits or you might get more of those benefits even, but having fasted less. 

Gin Stephens: Right. Like, think of the exponential curve. We all have seen a graph. You know, think of a graph with a straight line going just up straight. That's not what I'm talking about. An exponential curve is when it starts off sloping gently and then the slope gets higher, I think, by adding exercise, it would make that slope go up higher, like for the things that are happening in your body. Does that make sense?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Especially, I just mentioned them but depending on the exercise you're doing, that it might deplete your glycogen stores faster or it might burn more fat, and then the autophagy thing I think is huge, because there's a lot of studies on exercise increasing autophagy, and it does. It's one of the best ways to do it. So, yeah. You might get the benefits that you're trying to get potentially more so and potentially with less fasting.  

Gin Stephens: Yep. All right. I'm just going to say the exact same thing, yes. I agree with all of that. All right, number two. "I love wine, but cannot eat any sugar with that or I throw up. Actually, any mix of alcohol and sugar thoughts." Well, I've got a thought there. Don't do that. [laughs] Sorry. I just can't control myself today. I'm feeling super punchy.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm wondering like, "Does she just drink wine and then throws up?"  

Gin Stephens: Well, she said, if she has wine with sugar, it makes her throw up.  

Melanie Avalon: Cannot eat any sugar with it. Okay.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Did I read it weird?  

Melanie Avalon: No, no, I'm just thinking about-- because she says, a mix of alcohol and sugar, I've thinking like, "Oh, is it like cocktails that she throws up?" But then she says like, eat.  

Gin Stephens: Well, anything like, I think cocktails or having alcohol with sugar, either.  

Melanie Avalon: I don't know. It could be something about your liver health and trying to process all the stuff. I don't know. I would just say what Gin said, don't do that.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah. Honestly, that's just your body saying, "I don't like this." So, you just going to have to stick to like a Dry Farm Wine that it that has low sugar itself, and don't eat sugar with it, and don't have sugary cocktails. Because I wouldn't want to throw up. So, I wouldn't do that. I don't think there's any way to fix it. Here's the thing you can do to stop that. You just can't do it.  

Melanie Avalon: Like I'm wondering if she gets nauseous. Is it like at the end of the night type thing or is it like she has it and then gets nauseous?  

Gin Stephens: That's your body sending you a powerful signal not to do that.  

Melanie Avalon: But that is one reason like Gin mentioned that, we love Dry Farm Wines because they actually-- I love, love, love. They put on the back of the bottle, the sugar content, which is so cool.  

Gin Stephens: Well, I just ordered Chad's Christmas present. We had paused our subscription for a while because I was barely drinking. [laughs] So, I just got him a year's subscription to Dry Farm Wines. He likes the red and I just drink a tiny bit of red like a Melanie dose of red and I'm okay, but that's what I got him.  

Melanie Avalon: The old Melanie dose?  

Gin Stephens: The old Melanie dose.  

Melanie Avalon: Gin is referring to when I was having a sip of wine every night.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, okay, I have more than that. But when he has one but it's still a very small amount of glass. We have tiny little wine glasses and they put a little bit in there and that's enough.  

Melanie Avalon: Nice.  

Gin Stephens: Nothing like I'm not getting a buzz or anything, but he likes to have red wine with dinner here and there. So, that's his Christmas present.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm literally contemplating. I'm going to a wedding on Friday. I'm like, "Can I bring a bottle of Dry Farm Wines?"  

Gin Stephens: For yourself?  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. 

Gin Stephens: I wouldn't. Not to a wedding. I would not.  

Melanie Avalon: I could like slip it to the bartender be like, "Can you just pour mine from this one?"  

Gin Stephens: No, I would not do that. Thumbs down on that idea. Just don't drink at all if you are worried. Look, the reason I say that is because when I was drinking less, especially, the past year, I realized I have just as much fun with zero alcohol like honestly.  

Melanie Avalon: Well, I'm definitely going to be drinking. 

Gin Stephens: Do not bring your own wine to a wedding.  

Melanie Avalon: I already like joked about it with the bride. She's like, "Are you going to bring Dry Farm Wines?" I'm like, "Maybe."  

Gin Stephens: Well, I mean, if she's like, that's cool. I guess, it depends on your comfort level with the guests, the other guests. 

Melanie Avalon: I'll probably just drink whatever they have. Our link for Dry Farm Wines is dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast, gets you a bottle for a penny.  

Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. Audible is excited to offer members a new way to explore their interests with the new Plus Catalogue. This holiday season will certainly be more special than last. It's finally time to gather together and exchange thoughtful gifts with the people you care about. In the midst of all the holiday excitement, think about giving yourself the gift of an Audible membership. Now is the absolute best time to do it with a special offer of 60% off your first three months. With Audible, you can listen to more of whatever you're into because Audible has it all. An unbeatable selection of audiobooks, tons of binge worthy podcasts, and exclusive originals, all available to download or stream. Here's what you get. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month. Like the latest bestseller or hottest new release, yours to keep forever. You can listen to Melanie's book, What When Wine or either of my books, Delay, Don't Deny or Fast. Feast. Repeat., and coming January 4th, you can listen to Clean(ish) 

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Melanie Avalon: All right, number three.  

Gin Stephens: Yes. "I'm having surgery elective cosmetic, any supplements that would speed up my recovery." 

Melanie Avalon: So, when I had surgery, I thought I was dying and I was just wrecked. It was when I had my nose surgery. It could have been a coincidence. But I started high, high, high dosing NR and NMN, and I started feeling better the next day.  

Gin Stephens: I don't even know what that is.  

Melanie Avalon: Nicotinamide riboside, probably saying that wrong, NR and nicotinamide mononucleotide, NMN. 

Gin Stephens: Can I tell you something about that real quick?  

Melanie Avalon: Uh-huh.  

Gin Stephens: When I was reading Clean(ish), there are so many words in there that I had no idea how to say like when I'm talking about chemicals, and I had to say them. So, every time the director would look them up, and then I would try to say it, and then, she's like, "That was not right," and I would try again as like, "This is too hard, who wrote this." "Oh, yeah, me."  

Melanie Avalon: I read especially with that subject. You probably had a lot of--  

Gin Stephens: Well, I did because chemicals, and stuff, and so, anyone who's listening to Clean(ish), if I sound really stupid saying something wrong, it's because there's a lot of words, a lot of words. Anyway.  

Melanie Avalon: The one I can never remember is phthalates. 

Gin Stephens: Phthalates, I got that one.  

Melanie Avalon: Because it's like ph-tha-thalates. 

Gin Stephens: I can't say athe-roscle-rosis. Atherosclerosis like my tongue won't do it.  

Melanie Avalon: I cannot say that word.  

Gin Stephens: I can't say it. She'll say it. I can't. My tongue doesn't do that. They need to change that word. 

Melanie Avalon: They do. No, I remember because when I was recording some audiobook, they had that in a lot, that word. 

Gin Stephens: My tongue will-- athero-- I can't do it. I don't know.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I can't either. Yeah, same page. So, NR and NMN are precursors to NAD which is it regulates your body's metabolism of energy. So, it's super important for turning food into energy for your cells producing energy. It's just really, really important. And NAD levels decline as we age, so, supplementing NR and NMN can boost your NAD levels. I take it currently every day like a smaller dose. But if I were doing something like surgery, I would just like high dose it. The two brands I currently take, I take Elysium and Basis, NR and I take Quicksilver Scientific, NMN. In the future, I want to make my own version.  

Yeah, I would take that during the whole process, because you could take that. I mean, ask your doctor, but you should be able to take that before, during, and after, afterwards serrapeptase might be something to take because it enhances wound healing, lots of studies on that. Lots and lots of studies on that. So, I wouldn't take it before because they're probably telling you not to take blood thinners, things like that and serrapeptase can have a thinning effect on the blood. So, you won't want to be taking it before but afterwards could be really good thing. Those are the two things that come to mind for surgery specifically. And then just in general, any supplements that you're taking to support your personal health state kind of like we talked about before. Any thoughts, Gin?  

Gin Stephens: I'm going to talk about fasting. I know that's not what she asked. But sometimes people will have surgery and they'll ask about, "When should I start fasting again?" I would just say, "It's always great to talk to your surgical team about that and get their advice." But really, you want to listen to your body. You might need to eat more than you think you will. As part of the healing process, your body may like say, you know, be craving protein. If you're hungry for protein and craving it, eat it. Really listen to your body as you're recovering. Don't try to be like, "Well, I'm going to just fast for 20 hours." Maybe that's the wrong thing for your body. Maybe, it's the right thing. Animals in the wild know when to eat and when not to eat, and they listen to their bodies. So, really connect with your body, and see how you feel, and listen to those cues. Like if my body said eat potatoes, I would eat potatoes. If it said eat meat, eat meat. I would just do what it said to do.  

Melanie Avalon: Depending on surgery and everything like protein will likely be important, especially, depending on what you're getting.  

Gin Stephens: That's right. You need it. Here's something interesting. When I had that flu like illness a couple of weeks ago, the whole time that I wasn't feeling well and had a fever, I could not eat meat like I didn't want it. My body was like, "Nope." I would try to, "No, couldn't eat meat." Then as soon as I was better, I was craving meat like a crazy person. I just ate so much meat. [laughs] It was just weird. My body was like, "No meat." Now, I just want meat. 

Melanie Avalon: Yes, our bodies are very intuitive that way.  

Gin Stephens: Yep. All right, question four related to surgery. "Will have antibiotics for the first time in my life for that. My mom was very against it. So, never took in my entire life. What to take with it to minimize gut damage? Thank you, thank you, thank you. You're an amazing duo." You know, I haven't had any antibiotics since, I don't know, 2014 or 2015. I used to take them all the time because I was always having an infection when I was a teacher before fasting. But now, I don't have them. I don't need them. Anyway, she's never had an antibiotic. That's amazing. A-mazing.  

Melanie Avalon: Looking back in high school, I was on antibiotics for so long for acne. It's upsetting, but live and learn. So, this is a really good question and interestingly, I'm going to say something that might surprise people. They've actually done studies on antibiotics and recolonizing of the gut post-antibiotics, and they've actually found that supplementing probiotics directly after antibiotics can potentially slow down the body's return to its pre-antibiotic state. Because I think a lot of people will think they should take antibiotics and then immediately dose probiotics. I actually don't suggest that. I actually suggest taking antibiotics, fermented foods are a completely different case. I would focus on fermented foods instead. 

Gin Stephens: Like natural versions of probiotic foods.  

Melanie Avalon: I can put a link in the show notes to the study that talks about this, but I would probably suggest doing the antibiotics, framing it as in the positive because if you have to take it, no sense having a negative perspective of it and actually, can have a huge effect on things. It's something called the no SIBO effect, which is basically, if you anticipate bad things happening from whatever you're taking, it can actually make bad things happening. So, I would reframe it as, maybe this is like knocking out some bad guys. When you're done with it, I wouldn't do the probiotics right away. I would return to normal diet or standard diet throughout this, bring in natural fermented foods, and then a few weeks later, if you want to start on a different probiotic, that could be something to try. Its interesting people have asked me like, "Will I create a probiotic?" I just think there are a lot of probiotics that help people so much like this episode, for example, is sponsored by BiOptimizers. They make their magnesium.  

Gin Stephens: Oh, it is, isn't it? I didn't even notice that and me talking about my magnesium that I take that's theirs. [laughs] That was-- See, we really like the products that we have on the show. We use them. That's why we have them up on the show. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: I know. So, they make an amazing probiotic P3-OM. So, that might be something to try a few weeks after going off the antibiotics. But I do think probiotics are another thing where it's just so individual. Like some people benefit, some people don't, and it's really just finding what works for you. So, any thoughts, Gin? 

Gin Stephens: Nope. I think that was everything. And then, oh, that was it. We got them all.  

Melanie Avalon: All right, so, to end things, we have a question from Brittany. The subject is: "COFFEE WITH LOTS OF EASE." 

Gin Stephens: Coffee.  

Melanie Avalon: Yes. Yes. She says, "Hello, I just started listening to your podcast. So, I'm at the very beginning and I just listened to the coffee Episode 5." I forgot. We did that.  

Gin Stephens: I know. We were different then,  we didn't know what we were doing yet.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, we were trying to figure out like, what format and where we going to do topic episodes, and then we realized that the listener Q&As is just the way to go. She says, "I'm wondering about nut milks? Are they okay to add to my coffee while I'm transitioning or if I wait and break my fast with coffee? Thanks in advance."  

Gin Stephens: I have super bad news, Brittany, but I think you already knew what I was going to say. No, do not add them to your coffee. There's no freebie kind of milk of any kind that you can add to coffee that is not food for the body. Keep the nut milks in your eating window. I would recommend if you're new to intermittent fasting, really, I would Fast. Feast. Repeat. Because I really put everything in there that you're going to need to know and the why. Like, "Why can't I have--, why should I not do that?" It's all in Fast. Feast. Repeat again. Like I talked about with Clean(ish), I'm not just trying to sell you a book, but I spent a lot of time on that book as a resource because I wanted people to have something. So, instead of doing a Google search, where you're going to get crazy advice from people everything from yes to no to you know, "I only drink that milk--." There're all sorts of-- everything is conflicting. I put my very best advice in there based on the science and also what people are having success with, people in my communities.  

Oh, well, I'll tell you something funny, Melanie. Someone just yesterday in the DDD community, the private community that I have, somebody asked a question about butter in coffee, and we were talking about that, and then someone said as a comment, they're like, "You know, Gin, when I read Fast. Feast. Repeat, there were all those personal stories that you included from people about the clean fast and why." I was like, "That's a little bit of overkill." But as I kept reading, I was like, "Oh, no, this is actually [laughs] the best part." Because it's not just me telling you, it's people who are like, "Well, I thought you could have butter in your coffee because I heard that you could, so I did it, and fasting was hard, and then I saw what Gin said, and then, I stopped and oh, my gosh, it's better. It makes such a difference." So, that's why, I really would encourage you to take that clean fast challenge even if you think, "Well, I've always had butter in my coffee or I've always had nut milk in my coffee and it works for me,"  

I would have sworn to you that stevia works for me until I read The Obesity Code and realized the connection between insulin, and fat burning, and blood glucose levels because if your insulin goes up, your blood sugar goes down, that makes you hungrier, that sort of thing. Once I understood it, the science behind it, I took it out, made such a difference. I would have sworn to you that it "worked" for me till I removed it, and then realized it wasn't working for me. I didn't realize until I stopped that it wasn't. You don't know how good you can feel until you really feel good. So, that's why I would encourage anybody to do the clean fast. Black coffee, plain tea, don't use all the sweet herbal flavor or whatever in even things that are Swedish like chamomile, avoid those. Plain water, plain sparkling water, don't add anything else. Fast, clean, see what happens. Give yourself at least a month. Maybe six weeks of the clean fast, and then you know try that nut milk, and you will absolutely be a believer. You'll be like, "Oh yeah, that doesn't work for me." You're going to feel different. Then you will never doubt it again. [laughs]  

Melanie Avalon: I knew you would have the perfect answer to that.  

Gin Stephens: I used to put cinnamon in my coffee back in those days, too. Cinnamon and stevia as part of my fast. So, one day just-- then I realized, "Okay, cinnamon is our body foresees that as being a tasty treat." So, I was like one day, it's been since 2019 because it was in this house where we moved in 2019. I remember, I was about to open my window and not too long, and I'm like, "You know, I'm just going to test cinnamon now. Just I want to see. I just want to see what happens." It made me so starving, and shaky, and I was like, "All right, there you go." And luckily, I was about to have my window, so I just did, but it wasn't like psychological. I was like, "Maybe, this will be fine." It wasn't fine.  

Melanie Avalon: I knew you'd have the perfect answer to that. I have two tangential thoughts.  

Gin Stephens: Okay.  

Melanie Avalon: I never realized how much Swedish sounds like sweetish. 

Gin Stephens: Oh, like sweet-ish.  

Melanie Avalon: Sweetish, like the same word. Two, on the nut milk front, guess who I'm interviewing tomorrow?  

Gin Stephens: Well, I have no idea.  

Melanie Avalon: Dr. Neal Barnard.  

Gin Stephens: Does he love nut milk? He's like vegan, right?  

Melanie Avalon: He's like the vegan. The vegan of vegans. I'm nervous. I'm actually nervous. I don't get nervous much anymore. I'm very nervous.  

Gin Stephens: Here's my advice. If someone is awful or rude, just don't air their episode. So, there's nothing that can go wrong.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I don't think he'll be awful or rude.  

Gin Stephens: I wasn't saying him. I didn't think he would. But my point is don't be nervous because if someone is awful, not him, but just anybody in general. You got nothing to be nervous about. I get it though, I get it.  

Melanie Avalon: I'm so fascinated by the whole veganismness. I feel like I have a lot of knowledge about it but I wish I had more if that makes sense, but I have a lot of questions for him.  

Gin Stephens: Well, he is very much like, "This is the way everyone should be."  

Melanie Avalon: Yes. I think that's one of that part of the reason that I'm-- 

Gin Stephens: That you're nervous? Yeah. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.  

Gin Stephens: I get it. I totally get that because obviously, neither of us believe that is the way everyone should be. And I'm not saying no one should be [laughs] either. Between everyone and no one is where the reality is.  

Melanie Avalon: Maybe, this is another reason that I'm nervous. I haven't listened to any debates with him between-- Mostly when I see him, it's him-- Listeners, he's in all the documentaries. So, like any of them. Like What the Health like all of them. He's there. So, it's normally like, he's normally in an environment where it's just him putting forth his position. So, I don't know how he acts. I'm not going to be debating him, but I have a lot of questions. So, I don't know how that dialogue is going to go. So, we shall see.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah, I get it.  

Melanie Avalon: I have learned a lot though about soy.  

Gin Stephens: So, he's a big fan of it.  

Melanie Avalon: Mm-hmm. That's something that really goes back to, I think, now, the gut microbiome. It depends if you have gut bacteria that produces compound called Equol. I think around 90% of western population doesn't have that gut bacteria. So, it's like, I think that's a huge factor and if you get health benefits from soy or not.  

Gin Stephens: I also think there's a huge genetic component to soy and the populations that traditionally had that as part of their diet are going to be more adapted to it. I am not one of those populations. I'm European, the British Isles over there, and a little bit of also other Europeans sprinkled in for the most part, and we were not ever there eating soy. My ancestors were not. I like edamame, but tofu can't do it. Can't do it, I've tried, just can't.  

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I'll let you know how it goes.  

Gin Stephens: Yep. Well, I can't wait to hear. 

Melanie Avalon: Me, too. [giggles] All right. So, for listeners, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there or you can directly email questions@podcast.com. The show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything we talked about. I think we talked about a lot of stuff that is at ifpodcast.com/episode243. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike, and then you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast, I am @melanieavalon, Gin's @ginstephens, and I think that is everything. Anything from you, Gin, before we go?  

Gin Stephens: No, I think that's it.  

Melanie Avalon: I just remembered something. I'm going to talk about next week that is changing my life.  

Gin Stephens: Well, I can't wait to hear that and I'm not-- really can't wait to hear.  

Melanie Avalon: That's why I thought about it. So, yeah, all right. Well, I will talk to you next week. Happy holidays.  

Gin Stephens: Yeah. You, too. Bye.  

Melanie Avalon: Bye.  

Melanie Avalon: Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember that everything discussed on the show is not medical advice. We're not doctors. You can also check out our other podcasts, Intermittent Fasting Stories, and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. The music was composed by Leland Cox. See you next week. 


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