Welcome to Episode 369 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:
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SHOW NOTES
AVALONX SPIRULINA: Spirulina is being formulated now! AvalonX supplements are free of toxic fillers and common allergens (including wheat, rice, gluten, dairy, shellfish, nuts, soy, eggs, and yeast), tested to be free of heavy metals and mold, and triple-tested for purity and potency. Get on the email list to stay up to date with all the special offers and news about Melanie's new supplements at avalonx.us/emaillist! Get 10% off avalonx.us and mdlogichealth.com with the code MELANIEAVALON!
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Listener Feedback: Alani - Every time I tried to do a longer fast over 19 hours, I kept getting these horrible tension headaches...
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 369 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 369 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Vanessa Spina. Hi, everyone. How are you today, Vanessa?
Vanessa Spina:
I'm doing great, how are you?
Melanie Avalon:
I'm good. Have you listened? I will not make this all about Taylor Swift, but have you listened to her new tortured poets department album?
Vanessa Spina:
I haven't yet, but I really want to and listen to every, every lyric. I haven't yet. I'm guessing you have
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, yes, it's okay. We'll have to report back. It's long and it's a journey.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, there's one podcast breakdown I saw that did it over I think an hour and a half. I'm just going through that. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
Apparently the drama about it is everybody thought it was going to be mostly about her six year relationship with Joe Alwyn and most of the songs are actually about her like brief three or four month relationship with Matt Healy in between Joe Alwyn and the football guy.
Melanie Avalon:
Was that who's the football guy? Travis Kelsey? Yes. So that's that. I highly recommend. And non Taylor Swift related news, I think probably today, hopefully I will be submitting the invoice for everything to get my spirulina supplement going.
Melanie Avalon:
So that's very exciting. I've like hinted at it, but the reason I just feel like I've been talking about the supplement for so long. It's crazy how some things take so much longer than you anticipate, but have you tried spirulina or chlorella?
Vanessa Spina:
Yes, I'm obsessed. I take it every single day.
Melanie Avalon:
Do you like the spirit of Lena better, the chlorella, or the blend?
Vanessa Spina:
I take both. Yeah, I take both.
Melanie Avalon:
Everyday yeah okay that's awesome how much do you take.
Vanessa Spina:
So I take about, it works out to six or seven grams of each per day. So depending on which brand, like I have a few different brands. I have one like energy bets. I have one from, from Prague that I got locally.
Vanessa Spina:
That's also raw, spirulina and chlorella. And yeah, it works out to about like 30 tablets worth, but six or seven grams.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, then I probably take I probably take like 15 grams cuz I take like
Vanessa Spina:
Double that. 60.
Melanie Avalon:
90 tablets or so, yeah, or like 75. That's amazing. I love them. So basically what they are, for listeners, if they're not familiar, they're a blue -green, they're an algae, and they are just super, super rich in nutrients.
Melanie Avalon:
Like it's kind of ridiculous. The nutrient profile, they're just like pure nutrients. So when people think like, I'm not saying it's like a multivitamin or anything, but it's kind of like what it is.
Melanie Avalon:
They also have like, so they have like B vitamins and all the normal, you know, normal vitamins you would think of, iron, beta -carotene, but then they have like really specific nutrients. Like, so spirulina has glutathione in it, which is crazy, and superoxide dismutase.
Vanessa Spina:
That's the one I basically take it for.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Like, Chlorella also has that. It has nucleic acids and CoQ10. Like, these really cool niche rogue nutrients. They're high in protein, they're a complete vegan protein, so they actually have all nine amino acids.
Melanie Avalon:
It's just really, really awesome. So the reason it's been taking so long is I had to find a good source because I am going to also ultimately make a spirulina, a chlorella, and a blend, but we're starting the spirulina.
Melanie Avalon:
I had to find a source, so I had to like, I'm really intense with the raising practices. So for spirulina, we finally found this amazing farm in Hawaii. And it's like, they're a super sustainable farm.
Melanie Avalon:
They have all these really cool practices that they do to support the planet and with their water use and their electric use. And it's just really, really cool. And then on top of that, we wanted to test it to make sure it was free of pesticides, heavy metals, all of those things.
Melanie Avalon:
We had to do that. But the hardest thing about it was it was really important to me to have the best that I could make. And I know there are single ingredient tablets on the market. And we kept doing, trying different formulations to make it a single ingredient.
Melanie Avalon:
And we just couldn't. There's no way to make that powder into a single tab and it be consistent and basically for it just to work. I mean, like so intense about it. I'm like, but it's on the market, so it can be done.
Melanie Avalon:
Spoiler alert, we tested other brands and they are not actually one ingredient. So then I felt better. I was like, okay, so I'm like trying to do the impossible here. So mine is going to have silica in it, a very, very tiny minute amount.
Melanie Avalon:
It's so small that I could actually not mention it and say it's one ingredient. That's how brands get away with doing that. But for me, it's really important to be like overwhelmingly transparent with everything I do.
Melanie Avalon:
So it does have a tiny bit of silica in it, but silica actually has its own array of health and benefits. So now I actually prefer it with the silica. Again, it's a super, super tiny amount. But that's my long winded way of saying why it's taken so long.
Melanie Avalon:
And then of course there was the whole art fiasco and I really wanted my mermaid on the cover and there was a mermaid on the cover. So get excited. But in any case, when this launches, I wish I had the actual launch date because I was just texting with our partner Scott about the invoice, but today's episode airs mid May.
Melanie Avalon:
So it'll probably be shortly thereafter. I'm so excited. I feel like it's been a while since I've launched a supplement. So and for listeners, there will be a launch special. Oh, and we're trying to fix the pricing to make it more affordable because I know it can be pretty expensive.
Melanie Avalon:
So I'm trying my hardest to make it as affordable as possible. So when it launches, it will be at Avalon x .us. Definitely get on my email list to get the updates so you don't miss the launch special.
Melanie Avalon:
And for that, that will be at Avalon x a b a l o n x .us slash email list. Okay, that's my exciting product update. Any updates from you?
Vanessa Spina:
I had a big thing happen in my life this week with regarding a supplement, which is that after 20 years of wearing hair extensions, I quit. I totally had them taken out. And the craziest thing is it's been like this whole like health hair journey for me, because when I was 17, I like turned vegetarian and vegan.
Vanessa Spina:
And my hair just really suffered from not getting enough protein and not getting enough nutrients when I was eating plant -based. But I was doing it because I thought it was the healthiest way to eat.
Vanessa Spina:
And my hair was the biggest, I guess, the worst thing that happened really during all that time of my health going downhill and declining when I went plant -based was that my hair really became so brittle and fine.
Vanessa Spina:
It just stopped growing past my shoulders, and I always had long hair. At one point, I had it down below my hips. I always had really long, nice, flowy, thick hair. And my hair just was like, it just wouldn't grow anymore.
Vanessa Spina:
So I started getting hair extensions when I was in my early 20s, and I just became addicted to it. So I would get them put in, and then I would have them for five to six months, and then I would switch them out, and I'd just been living like that for years and years and years.
Vanessa Spina:
And I felt like the last time that I went, right before the holidays, I had them switched out. And I was like, my hair, in between having them taken out and having the new ones put in, I was like, wait a second, my hair is crazy long now.
Vanessa Spina:
It is so long, and I remember thinking, having quite a pause in between having them taken out and put back in, that I was like, maybe I should just stop doing this. Why am I doing this anymore if my hair is so long?
Vanessa Spina:
It was too far into the process at that point. I just finished, got them put in, and then left. But it's been nagging on me ever since. So this week, I had them taken out actually yesterday, and it was crazy.
Vanessa Spina:
My hair now is longer than the extensions that I was having put in. So you would have to cut my hair to match the length of the extensions, because it's so long. And I know that it's because of this high -protein lifestyle that I've been doing for the last five years.
Vanessa Spina:
Hair is protein. It's keratin. And I know that my hair was suffering back then when I was plant -based for most of my adult life. And then in the last five years, really reversing everything and especially going high -protein, I can see the effects of it.
Vanessa Spina:
And it's the most incredible feeling for me to be able to touch my scalp, run my fingers through my hair, and not have any bonds or anything in there. You get used to it, and you don't really notice that they're there anymore.
Vanessa Spina:
But oh my gosh, it just feels amazing. And I just can't get over the fact that my hair is so long and full again. And it just feels so natural and nice. And I actually feel prettier without them in, because it must be some kind of, I don't know, just maybe some maturity that I'm having as well.
Vanessa Spina:
But it's an amazing feeling. I got back yesterday, and Pete was like, wow, this is really nice. And I kept making him touch my head all night. Touch my head again. Touch my hair. And he was like, yeah, it's great.
Vanessa Spina:
For someone who always loved having long hair in my whole life, the fact that I sort of accepted, this is just going to be how it is for me. For the rest of my life, I'm just going to have to wear hair extensions.
Vanessa Spina:
And the fact that I could take them out and be sitting here and just stroking my hair while I'm talking and I don't have anything in there is just the best feeling. So just on wellness, health journey, personal journey, there's so many things that are important, obviously, in terms of our overall health.
Vanessa Spina:
And hair is just a vanity thing maybe, but it's a big deal for most people to have nice hair, to have healthy hair. It's a reflection of your inner health, I think, too. And I couldn't just be more excited about this.
Vanessa Spina:
So that's my personal update. And it's really fresh because it just happened yesterday. So this morning was the first time I woke up and I didn't have all these extensions in. I blow dried my hair, and it was just my hair.
Vanessa Spina:
And it's not as luscious and thick as it was with the extensions. And I have some split ends, but it's my hair. You know what I mean? It's just such a cool, cool feeling.
Melanie Avalon:
That is amazing. Okay, I have thoughts and questions. One, I had no idea you had extensions. Okay, so you, and that makes sense hearing what you said about how your hair was thick before. Like you look like the type of person, your hair looks like the type of hair that is naturally thick hair.
Melanie Avalon:
And maybe, and I understand that you had extensions in, so like how could I know that? But like, it makes sense to me what you're saying. Like it makes sense to me that you had really thick hair and then it wasn't and now it's thick again.
Melanie Avalon:
Like you're saying that at one point it was naturally, but lower waist anyways. Is that what you were saying?
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, when I was up until I was around 12 or 13, my hair was down to my butt. It was so long. It was always really healthy and great. I definitely know. I made mistakes, especially going plant -based and not knowing.
Vanessa Spina:
I'm not saying that you can't do plant -based well, but I did not know how to get enough protein. I didn't know how to take spirulina and to take all these other things like protein powder, collagen, all this stuff that I know about now.
Vanessa Spina:
I didn't know that I was under eating protein for so many years. I talked to and hear from a lot of women who deal with hair issues. I think it can be insufficient calories. You're not getting enough calories in total.
Vanessa Spina:
A lot of times, it's insufficient protein. It's something that I'm super in such a profound way to our diet.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, 100%. I'm just thinking about it because like so like with my hair. Okay, so again, well, hey, my mind is just blown because they literally had no idea that you had extensions. Did you have the you had the bonds?
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I had bonds in I posted a picture yesterday on my Instagram with my extensions out and it's just so wild to me that like that's just my hair like it's just my hair and it's so long and it's Just natural like it's crazy.
Vanessa Spina:
So yeah, it's I Guess like it they blended really well in my hair and I I don't think there's anything wrong with getting hair extensions like obviously I did it for a long time, but I think for me there was like this feeling with feeling like I had to always have them or like I had like I said, I had just like accepted that that was how it Is for me like oh my hair just like you know got really bad during this time in my life and it's never gonna fully recover and I'm just here to say like it can recover and It can look better than like you think it can or you know I don't want to say that you ever dreamed up because like, you know for me It's like returning back to how it used to be but it's amazing how you know just protein can make such a huge difference and collagen all these things and and You know eating a nutrient -dense diet and and all of that.
Vanessa Spina:
So
Melanie Avalon:
I completely agree and believe it. And so like, so my hair journey, so my hair is super thin, and it's always been thin. Like it's never been like, Oh, I'm so jealous of people who wear it's like down to, you know, like that could be at their waist, like just naturally.
Melanie Avalon:
So I've been getting extensions for you said you've been getting yours for 20 years, right?
Vanessa Spina:
Well, I'm rounding up, but like I started when I was like in maybe 15 years, like altogether.
Melanie Avalon:
Me too. Did you also have bonds in? Oh, yeah. So I was going to comment on that. I was going to comment on that and the diet aspect piece, because I've definitely seen. So basically, I have seen a huge difference in my hair, even though it's super, super thin, based on different journeys in my diet history.
Melanie Avalon:
It's so true, everything that you said, about how the protein intake and everything, you really see it in your hair. And I remember when I was hardcore supplementing collagen for a while, it was like when I had no money.
Melanie Avalon:
And I was like, I can't really afford this, because then I have to keep redying my, I mean, fixing my roots too often, you know? I can. Or getting a manicure. I can't afford to get a manicure this often.
Melanie Avalon:
I take the collagen, it grows so fast.
Vanessa Spina:
fast. I noticed that was one of the first things like when I started going higher protein, I was like, I have to get my manicures done so much more often. And, you know, I feel like I'm going to the hair salon for because I, you know, get my roots highlighted.
Vanessa Spina:
And it's like, it feels like it's like every month, it's like every six weeks, but it's fast.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes, it's crazy. I did bonds for the longest time and this is just my own personal opinion. Did you ever try, first of all, this is not me trying to say go back to them, I'm so happy for you. I'm just curious, did you ever try tapens?
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, so this is my PSA.
Vanessa Spina:
My best running candidate is.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, friends, if you do hair extensions ever, do tapens and never look back until you get like luscious normal hair like Vanessa and then look and then take them out. Yeah, they're so easy, they just like stick in and they're so light, you don't even feel them and then to replace them or take them out is so easy compared to the bonds where it takes like hours and hours and you have these individual bonds and then they pull your hair out and every time I would get them redone, I just felt like I would like shutter because I felt like my hair was getting, I could tell it was doing damage like the bond aspect of it to the hair.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I think it definitely does.
Melanie Avalon:
Compared to the tape ins, I experience zero damage. It's nice because I can see how it's like my hair salon woman. I remember she made a comment probably a few years ago, and she was like, your hair is really getting, like your actual hair is getting better.
Melanie Avalon:
That probably was when I was really focusing more on nutrition and protein and all the things. It's so true, everything you said about you really, really see it in your hair and nails for sure. It's so true.
Vanessa Spina:
Well, that's one of the many reasons I'm so passionate about protein, like why I wanted to create tone protein and one of the reasons Scott and I are working on the collagen next, tone collagen. It's one of those things, whether you're a woman or a man, that hair and nails and skin, they're all such important aspects of beauty, right?
Vanessa Spina:
It's not about vanity. Again, when you are really well on the inside, your skin looks great, your hair looks great, your nails look great, they're strong, and it's just a reflection of what's happening inside.
Vanessa Spina:
So I think that's why it's so exciting. When your hair dresser says your hair is getting better, I totally know that feeling or you feel like you're getting compliments on your skin or that kind of stuff, it makes you want to do more of it and it makes you really glad that you are doing the things, taking the supplements and focusing on having an optimized protein intake and all that.
Vanessa Spina:
It just makes a huge difference. I love talking about it and sharing a little bit of our own personal experiences with it because for anyone who's listening who struggled with having fine hair, I'm not saying that you can have the most amazing hair ever.
Vanessa Spina:
Like I said, mine is definitely not as luscious without the extensions in, but you can improve it a lot and don't give up. If you've been someone who's maybe had a low protein intake for a long time and you've noticed a difference with your hair, there's definitely improvements that can be made.
Melanie Avalon:
And you can see it. I think you can see it relatively quickly in the hair and nails and especially with the collagen. I just remember every time I've done like a run of collagen. It's like shocking to me how fast I See the difference.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it's true. Did you ever have had the experience? I remember I was so remember was nice living in LA having hair extensions because if I would go out with men like new men, I Knew it was like normal like everybody there has extensions almost so I was never I wasn't really concerned about them Like putting their hands in my hair and let me have me like explain and I moved to Atlanta and I'm like I'm like don't touch there Like on a day
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, it's, it's funny because like, you know, especially if you have them in like, they just kind of become a part of you. Like you don't really think about them. Yeah, you don't think about them. You don't think about them.
Vanessa Spina:
That's another thing that like, I'm really excited about is like, I like wearing my hair half up. And it's just like, nice feeling not to feel like they might be showing or something, you know, like that, that not that it bothered me that much, but it just made me feel sometimes like, like I wasn't well put together or something like if I had my hair like that.
Vanessa Spina:
So it's often doing hairstyles like that only wearing it half up at home, but I like wearing half up all the time, like outside of the house too, like not just in a ponytail or down. So it's fun to feel like now I can be a little bit more versatile with like different things that I do with it because I'm not worried about them showing.
Vanessa Spina:
And yeah, so that's, my big excitement this week. Yeah, it's a big, big thing after 15 years of coming to an end. That is super.
Melanie Avalon:
Did I tell you what they did when I was on Millionaire Matchmaker? No. So this was also in L .A. and so it's like a dating show with this woman Patti, something, something. It's a crazy experience, but in any case, she like wanted to do a makeover on me.
Melanie Avalon:
I remember that the producers came up to me and they were like, if Patti wants... So it was like before we had gone into... Have you watched that show before?
Vanessa Spina:
I have, and it's just launching again. It is. She's doing it with Nick Viall or something.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh man.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I did watch that show and I watched it with my brother once he was staying with me and we were like cracking up about it. But you were on it. I remember you were on it.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I feel like I've told you about it before. So if I'm being repetitive, I apologize. It was an interesting experience because I honestly thought, I honestly thought all of the girls on the show, because this was in LA, so I thought it was like, when you respond to casting calls for these things, like there's, it's not like, I thought all the girls there were gonna be, wanna be actors like me.
Melanie Avalon:
I didn't think it was women actually trying to find true love.
Vanessa Spina:
That's what I thought it was. I thought it was like people who wanted to be on TV or... Yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
like half the girls there were serious. Wow, mm -hmm. I remember I was like having a conversation with a girl and I was like, why are you here? And she was like, well, I just, you know, I haven't found that man yet and I just feel like this might be the way to do it.
Melanie Avalon:
And I was like, honey, like this is not, not the place, not the place. But in any case, the point of the story is the producers came up at one point and they were like, if Patty wants to do a makeover on you, you have to do it.
Melanie Avalon:
If you don't do it, you're gone from the show. Like it was really intense. And I was like, okay. Of course she picked me. And so then they like took me into this, it was so like B budget level. Like they just, it was like not a nice setup, but they were like, we're gonna like cut your hair and dye your hair and do all this stuff.
Melanie Avalon:
And they did. And it was fine because I knew I was about to get my hair extensions redone anyways. So I was like, oh, whatever. I'll just let them do what they do and then I'll fix it myself. But what's funny, what's funny is in the make, so then, so they cut it, they dyed it, they did stuff.
Melanie Avalon:
And then the actual like day where we're meeting the men, I'm just thinking about the men that were on it. But in any case, when we were doing that, that day they like put hair extensions in my hair and all this stuff.
Melanie Avalon:
And then when they were like doing the part where they're like, what makeover did you do to Melanie? Patty was like, well, we just did like color in a blowout. I'm like, you didn't do color in a blowout.
Melanie Avalon:
You like added extensions. Like this is not real hair. So that's my extension story. People lie on television is the point.
Vanessa Spina:
good for you for doing that there's no way i would ever let anyone do a makeover on me.
Melanie Avalon:
It was literally not normally. It was literally, I was literally getting my hair extensions, like I said, redone the next week. So I was like, if, if I'm going to get it redone anyways, just do whatever you want.
Melanie Avalon:
I remember, oh, I remember one time, sorry. And this is the last thing I was doing. Uh, I was doing stand and work on, I think in CIS or something long story short, the way one of the ways, I don't know if it's still this way, but one of the ways that you can get into the sag union is by getting three.
Melanie Avalon:
It's a long story, but three sag vouchers on TV shows, which are very hard to get because in order to get a voucher, you have to be sag. So it's like this weird catch 22 thing. It's a weird system. I had two, I needed one more.
Melanie Avalon:
They booked me as a stand -in and they were like, we're going to have to cut your hair if you do it. I think I was going to be like a dead body or something. I don't know, but, um, for one of the characters, but I remember it was this moment where they're like, we don't know if we're going to have to cut your hair.
Melanie Avalon:
Cause we don't know if they're going to have the scene. They might cut the scene. And so I remember like sitting in there and wardrobe and with hair and makeup. And I was like, can you just like cut my hair very, very last minute if they need me and the woman was so nice.
Melanie Avalon:
She like held out for me and then they didn't have the scene. So I got my sag voucher cause I was already there and they didn't cut my hair, but it was a moment where I almost like had to cut it super short.
Melanie Avalon:
And it was like a moment of like reflecting your life choices and like what matters to you at this moment.
Vanessa Spina:
There's so much, oh my goodness.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, don't even get me started. Oh, I can't, there's so much, that was a lot. So how can people best get your tone protein and learn about your new collagen when it's coming and all the things?
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, if you go to tone protein .com, you can get the link there to purchase tone protein and you can also sign up there for the email list for tone college and if you want to stay tuned for when that is going to be out.
Vanessa Spina:
So exciting.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness. I just love that we're able to make these supplements that really make a difference in our lives and then we get to make our perfect manifestation of them. It's just a wonderful situation and then to share it with everybody.
Vanessa Spina:
It is because oftentimes like with tone protein, like I had to create the protein that I wanted to be in the world. And I know you feel the same way with magnesium eight, you know, and now you're spirulina and it's like you want to create the things that you want to be in the world because you want to take them yourself selfishly.
Vanessa Spina:
Like this is the protein powder that I wanted to be out so that I could take it. And I also want all my friends and family to take it. And I also want everyone who's listening and in our communities to be able to take it if they want to, you know, and people ask us all the time about supplement recommendations and what we take.
Vanessa Spina:
And, you know, there's nothing you can recommend more, something more wholeheartedly than something you've actually created because you know, it's the highest quality, the purest cleanest. Like, and I know you, you have such high standards for what you create and put out in the world.
Vanessa Spina:
So I'm super excited. I can't wait to try your spirulina.
Melanie Avalon:
No, thank you. I feel the exact same way. And even with like the spirulina and chlorella's, I've always just been suspicious of, and I don't want to say suspicious, I don't want to put up bad vibes because the other brands I take, I love and I take currently because I don't have my own.
Melanie Avalon:
So I love it. But I just wanted to know exactly what was in there. And with mine, I know exactly what's in there. And I know, and I've like tested it and it tastes, oh, it tastes amazing. So yes. Oh, oh, and it's a tangent.
Melanie Avalon:
So silica, like I said, that we're using as the tiny additive is really, really great for hair, skin and nails. Like really, really amazing. So that also compliments. Okay. Shall we get into some fasting things?
Melanie Avalon:
Yes, I would love to. Okay. So to start things off, this is actually something that somebody posted in our Facebook group. So we thought we would share and read it. It's from Alani. I think that's probably how you say it.
Melanie Avalon:
So she says, thank you so very much to Melanie Avalon and Vanessa Spina for their great podcasts, all of them. I wrote into the I have podcast a while ago. I'm a 49 year old woman who's been doing intermittent fasting for about five years.
Melanie Avalon:
Thanks to this podcast. Every time I tried to do a longer fast over 19 hours, I kept getting these horrible tension headaches that would start in my shoulders and go up to my neck and head. My body was clearly telling me it wanted to eat, but because I wasn't hungry and because I wanted to lose a little weight around the middle and I wanted the benefits of fasting, I tried to override my body's feedback.
Melanie Avalon:
Thanks to Melanie and Vanessa's podcast advice, I now have changed things up. I eat a very high protein diet and instead of one meal a day, I have either breakfast and dinner or lunch and dinner. I fast overnight from 7 p .m.
Melanie Avalon:
to anywhere from 9 a .m. to noon. When I'm hungry, I eat. I lost eight pounds. I've kept it off by doing protein only days. I never knew about this until I heard Melanie talking about it on the podcast and then Vanessa talking about high protein diets and both of them talking about protein sparing modified fasts.
Melanie Avalon:
It's so much nicer eating only protein on a day instead of water and I don't have to worry about losing muscle and no tension headaches. I'll have a grass -fed finished steak in the beginning of the day and then at the end of the day, I'll have some ground turkey or ground chicken and hard -boiled eggs and some chocolate protein powder with milk for dessert.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm completely full and satiated. I have to admit that whenever I do one of these days, all I want is salad and blueberries and chocolate but I just tell myself I can eat them tomorrow. Each time I do one of these high protein days, my pants fit better and the weight stays off.
Melanie Avalon:
At first, I did them every Friday for about two months and then when I reached my goal weight of 133 pounds, I'm 5 '5". I do them whenever my pants get a little too tight around the belly button. Can't thank you enough for this incredible way of eating breakthrough.
Melanie Avalon:
So yeah, Vanessa actually flagged this. She saw this in a group and said we should read it and I agree. Do you have thoughts, Vanessa?
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I love Alani and I just so appreciate her enthusiasm and I know she was saying that she was using the tone device as well in her, I think she had a follow up comment after her post there that she's been using it.
Vanessa Spina:
And she was saying that after she does the high protein days, she gets really high fat burning the next days. And it's just like really cool feedback. So there's so many different things that you can do and sort of like test out.
Vanessa Spina:
And she's been sending me really enthusiastic, excited emails about the tone device too. So I saw her post in the Facebook group and I was like, this is amazing. And we recently answered, it wasn't that long ago that I think she wrote in and we addressed that question.
Vanessa Spina:
So I love getting to do follow ups. If you ever are listening and asked a question and you want to give us an update, it's super fun to share updates, especially just amazing success stories like Alani's
Melanie Avalon:
I agree so much. And yeah, I love these days of of the protein only hacks. I feel like at least for me, it is really interesting how much how quickly I can see a change from it. And I think it's I think for me, it's probably more just for me, I lose any residual like water puffiness or inflammation.
Melanie Avalon:
Not that I have like a ton of that anyways, but there's something about like just the pure protein that really does it for me. And then I think it also really helps with the fat burning mode like Alani was experiencing.
Melanie Avalon:
So although when I do it, I go, I'm like really simple, I'll eat like just chicken or just some steak. I love having my moments of like a big meal of just protein. It's so fun. It's like a fun time.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, it definitely feels like a feast and you it's such nutrient dense food and it feels so aligned with I think the way that humans were meant to eat because it's like it's a really satisfying experience.
Vanessa Spina:
And I feel like I'd really discovered that since eating high protein meals, that it just feels so it feels so right. You know, like, I think back, you know, ancestrally how it makes sense that that's how, you know, we would have, you know, thrived or that we'd be the descendants of people who were hunting and, you know, gathering and basically like not eating for periods of time and then eating a big feast like that.
Vanessa Spina:
It just makes sense that that's sort of like the most satisfying thing to sit down to like a big meal, eat as much as you want until you're fully full and then feel done and then just not think about food.
Vanessa Spina:
That was such a revolutionary thing for me, you know, just learning and discovering that you can have a meal and be so satisfied for it that like you don't have any noise about food or that like voice of being hungry or the fear about going out and being hungry or anything like that just completely goes away and how much energy that takes away from you when you are thinking about food that you can just function like a normal human being.
Vanessa Spina:
And I was so like under eating protein for so many years that that voice was so ever present for me. The only time that I ever felt that quiet before was when we would have Thanksgiving. And that's when like I made the connection because like Thanksgiving is the only other time that I eat that much meat, like I eat that much turkey.
Vanessa Spina:
And I was like that's the same feeling. I have the feeling that I have at Thanksgiving where I'm like I don't want to look at food for like a while. And that's for me like food piece, food freedom where I'm like I can go do things.
Vanessa Spina:
I can go like live my life. I can go write a book or create programs or you know work on a podcast or a project I'm really passionate about or like work on meaningful things for me as opposed to devoting time and energy to like what am I going to eat later or when can I eat again.
Vanessa Spina:
Like and that's you know we have this protein stat in us and it just all aligns with the way I think we're really like supposed to be.
Melanie Avalon:
Exactly. And then like you said, when you do actually eat, you actually get to eat, you actually get to, you don't have to worry about like restricting and you feel so satiated. And actually, this actually relates to, because we were going to pick up from last episode we were going through, we were reading comments on this post about mistakes that people have made with intermittent fasting.
Melanie Avalon:
And I'll reread one of the comments, which it's about intuitive eating. But I was just thinking right now the different, because you were just talking about that feeling you get when you have like a piece of really nourishing meat, like how good it feels.
Melanie Avalon:
And I was just thinking about there's two really intense feelings I reflect on getting from food. So one is that feeling and I often get it if it's like when I'm breaking my fast and if I like break my fast with like a nice like piece of salmon or a steak, like you just get this feeling of like satiation and peace and calm and like it feels nourishing.
Melanie Avalon:
I also get a really, really intense feeling that also feels really, really good if I were to eat like funfetti cake or like something like that. The reason I'm talking about it is it's also like a really, really good feeling to exist in, but it doesn't feel satisfying.
Melanie Avalon:
And it feels like you're just going to keep wanting more and more and more, even though they're both feelings of liking and enjoying the experience that you're having. And the reason I think this is important for the intuitive eating piece, and I should probably read the person's comment, I will in a moment, but I think it speaks to why it can be hard to do quote intuitive eating with quote all the things, because so many foods are engineered to make you feel like high eating them.
Melanie Avalon:
So the intuitive thing to do in that moment is to keep eating it. Because that's literally what it's telling your brain to do. So I'll actually just read, I'll read the person's comment. What I'm saying is that it's really hard to have intuition when your intuition from an evolutionary perspective would actually tell you to keep doing the bad thing.
Vanessa Spina:
Like when your brain is being hijacked.
Melanie Avalon:
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, yeah.
Vanessa Spina:
I have food that's been scientifically optimized to make it addictive.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes, my point is like, because I feel like in the intuitive eating moment, they'll say like, if you can't have just like a little piece of cake, and this is not the intention, but the messaging that I've got sometimes is like, Oh, if you can't moderate, if you can't just have a little piece, then you're not intuitively eating.
Melanie Avalon:
And I'm like, well, maybe some people can do that. But for some people, telling them just to have a little bit and be intuitive about that and not want to keep eating it is just not. It's just not what's happening at that moment.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I wonder if it goes back to the abstainers versus moderators thing, you know, because I really believe there are people who can have like, one bite even, like on fetticake or, you know, dark chocolate or whatever it is, and just feel like, like I had one cookie, like I'm good.
Vanessa Spina:
But there are those of us who are maybe abstainers who, you know, that is just like impossible to imagine. Like one would only leave you wanting more. It's a quote. It's like, one bite is never enough.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it's like something about never enough and then something is about too many, right? Yeah, like never enough and too many. Yeah, I wish I could remember it. I mean, that sounds like a quote. One bite is never enough and too many.
Melanie Avalon:
If it's not, it is now. One text is too many and a thousand are never enough. That's talking about boys, but or girls.
Vanessa Spina:
One is too many and a thousand is never enough.
Melanie Avalon:
One drink is too many and a thousand is never enough. Yeah, one bite is too many and a thousand is never enough.
Vanessa Spina:
Yes. I learned about this concept from Gretchen Rubin who I got to interview on my podcast. You should interview her sometime with you. You've had her on your podcast. Yeah. She's so amazing and she does low carb.
Vanessa Spina:
So we had so much fun. How did you connect with her?
Melanie Avalon:
originally.
Vanessa Spina:
I can't remember now. It was either on Instagram or Twitter, like on some social media, I think. I can find out and let you know. But she does low -carb. So she was also keen to talk to me about keto and stuff.
Vanessa Spina:
But she's the one I learned that concept from. And I really do think if you're a moderator, saying you can never have any is the torture in the same way that for an abstainer, having just a little bite is the same degree of torture.
Vanessa Spina:
So it's really hard for abstainers and moderators to fully understand each other because it's such an opposing way of being. But maybe if you're a moderator, you can intuitively eat. But I think for an abstainer, it's definitely a really hard concept.
Vanessa Spina:
And also because of the incredible point that you brought up, which is that it's really hard to eat intuitively when you're eating food that has actually been created in some cases in a lab to make you feel like one bite is never enough.
Vanessa Spina:
It's actually addictive and hijacking your brain in that moment. It's hijacking your dopamine receptors and it's creating this bliss point effect where it creates a super really high... So many units of dopamine are released that they go beyond anything natural.
Vanessa Spina:
And I learned this from Dr. Vera Tarmen. I'm interviewing her again, but she wrote some incredible research on processed food addiction. And she said there's certain units of dopamine our brains can handle.
Vanessa Spina:
Say you have an amazing moment in your life, like a birth or marriage or having sex. All these things have a certain upper limit of dopamine units where some of these foods go not just 100 or 200 units.
Vanessa Spina:
They go to like 400 or 500 units. And when you get that high, it creates this feeling that you then when you go back to baseline, you're now at a low. So you have to have more. It really creates an addictive response.
Vanessa Spina:
So how can you eat intuitively when you're eating food that's making you addicted to it? And for me, the last thing I'll say on this is I found intuitive eating when I tried the carnivore diet and I tried high protein because it was all whole foods like with nothing added.
Vanessa Spina:
And that's when I finally was able to feel that connection between like what my body actually needed and what I was giving it. And when I was done, where I find it impossible to do that with like these sort of franken foods and hyper processed foods.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, you literally said what I was about to say, which was, I'm so excited that you said that. Because I was thinking with Alani's question, it was almost like she was doing intuitive eating with what she found with the protein intake and everything.
Melanie Avalon:
To me, it kind of feels like for some people, like you just said, you can do this sort of intuitive eating once you're eating the foods that are actually sending the correct signals of satiety and everything and are not going to make you keep craving them.
Melanie Avalon:
Because then you can actually be intuitive and listen to when to stop. And another reason, so another reason they keep you hooked on them. So for example, Mark Shatsker, he wrote a book called The Dorito Effect and also the end of craving.
Melanie Avalon:
His thesis and the end of craving blew my mind. But he talks about how, and he might talk about the Dorito Effect as well, but basically not only do these foods taste so amazing and make us want to keep eating them and release and stimulate that super high dopamine response that Vanessa was talking about.
Melanie Avalon:
But they're devoid of nutrients, so our body gets super confused. Because normally in nature, foods that would taste good like that are attached to nutrients. So the body keeps craving because it's not getting any of the nutrients that it's needing on top of the fact that it's getting these super high dopamine responses that's creating an addictive pattern.
Melanie Avalon:
And then he talks about studies, and I wish they would do more studies on this, but he talks about studies where when people are basically given drinks that don't match, the calorie intake doesn't match the perceived energy level.
Melanie Avalon:
So because often we'll have like these junk foods that'll be also artificially sweetened or like partly artificially sweetened to like reduce the quote calories of them. In the studies that he references, when people have these drinks where there's a mismatch, like where they use some artificial sweeteners to reduce the calorie intake, they actually like their metabolism slows down.
Melanie Avalon:
Like they like don't burn the calories because the body freaks out because it doesn't know how to interpret the amount of calories coming in, not matching what it thinks there should be. And so it tells the body that there's like an uncertainty surrounding everything.
Melanie Avalon:
And so it puts the body into a, I don't, he literally talks about it. The people burn less calories when there's a mismatch, even if the thing they're eating has less calories. So you're like trying to quote, lose weight by having reduced calorie foods, but really you might be encouraging your body to burn less calories, which is just mind blowing to me.
Melanie Avalon:
So yes, you just can't win with these foods.
Vanessa Spina:
It's really, it's really such a good point. And you know, I, I'm all for intuitive eating. I just believe that for certain people, maybe for a lot of people, it can only truly, to me, the essence of it can only truly be practiced with whole foods.
Vanessa Spina:
Like it just can't be practiced with these foods that are unnatural or ultra processed. Like it's just never gonna, you're never going to get that feedback loop. That is like what you were just talking about where you're getting the right signals and then it's giving your body the right cues and all of that.
Vanessa Spina:
So, you know, I, I love the concept of eating intuitively. I feel like I eat intuitively now because I prioritize protein and I eat. My protein is a main component of my meals and that is the macronutrient.
Vanessa Spina:
I think that has the best feedback loop in the body in terms of satiety and everything. So, you know, I think that that should be a core component of anyone practicing intuitive eating. I think we have some questions.
Vanessa Spina:
Probably we're going to get to in the next episode about fasting and connecting that back to intuition and how you're feeling. And I think, I think that's a really important concept to, to apply to intermittent fasting or to, you know, any kind of lifestyle approach that you're doing.
Melanie Avalon:
100%. And I'll read the comment that we're talking about. So it was from Stephanie. Again, I posted a group asking what mistakes they made with intermittent fasting. I did want to read the rest and maybe next episode we can go through the rest of the comments.
Melanie Avalon:
But she said, there seems to be a trend in this post of a lot of people saying similar things. So perhaps this isn't the best approach for many people as from what I can see for many people it creates disordered eating.
Melanie Avalon:
If you just find a balanced diet, eat when you're hungry and listen to what your body is asking for and choose whole foods. So she does say choose whole foods. Your mind and body will be far more balanced than restricting and obsessing over a certain window or type of eating.
Melanie Avalon:
Following an intuitive eating approach I feel like is the most healthy way to find a healthy balance with food. I mean, I love a lot of what she says in there about, you know, choosing whole foods like we just talked about.
Melanie Avalon:
And I mean, the word I could go on hold soapbox about the word balanced diet. Like what does that even mean exactly? But I would interpret that as well. I think people don't know what does that mean?
Melanie Avalon:
It's a question. I feel like people often by that they mean like a mixed macro diet. I would use the word balanced diet as I would replace it with like a like a nutritious diet. So like a diet that's meeting all your nutritional needs.
Melanie Avalon:
I think is really important. That may be depending on where you're at. It may be lower carb lower fat. But I agree with what she says about, you know, listening to your body and eating when you're hungry and, and all of that.
Melanie Avalon:
But I don't think that because she talks about that's better than restricting and obsessing over a window or a type of eating. I do think some people, a lot of people having a restrict a quote restriction by having a window and quote obsessing but really it's just having rules in place about what you personally feel good eating or what you want to eat or don't want to eat.
Melanie Avalon:
I think some people can paint that as restriction and an obsession. But for others, it's just people have found the rules and boundaries that work for them and actually provide freedom. So it's kind of like, kind of like when we drive on the road, we have lanes that are rules and boundaries that you have to stay in.
Melanie Avalon:
And we don't say that that's being restrictive and obsessive. It's because that's actually that actually allows us to all drive safely and get to where we need to be going. It actually like provides freedom.
Vanessa Spina:
That's what I was just going to say. I was like, we restrict ourselves from running into heavy traffic on a highway because it keeps us alive. So that the term restriction for some reason has such a negative connotation when it comes to nutrition.
Vanessa Spina:
Like you should not restrict yourself from anything. Like, no, you should restrict yourself from eating like trans fats and you should restrict yourself from eating oxidized oils and, you know, things that, you know, are really bad for you.
Vanessa Spina:
You know, having a set period of time in which you choose to give your body digestive rest and allow your body to assimilate and break down the food that you just ate without eating again, I think is just like common sense.
Vanessa Spina:
Like, and, you know, a lot of us like these days in our modern lives, it's hard to even not snack between like breakfast and lunch and lunch and dinner and then dinner and bed, right? Like, so, you know, there's like not snacking.
Vanessa Spina:
Which is really important. And then there's, you know, choosing perhaps to take a period of time in your day where you just allow yourself to be in the facet state instead of being in that fed state perpetually.
Vanessa Spina:
And I, I think it's a, it's just really interesting how whenever you apply the word restriction to eating, it's like, Oh no, don't restrict yourself. But if it comes to like highway traffic restrictions are really important.
Vanessa Spina:
So it's, it's a really important analogy. And I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm not sure why it is that like a lot of us feel like you don't ever want to restrict yourself from anything like that somehow limiting you in a way when it actually is, could be keeping you really healthy.
Melanie Avalon:
kind of like with people's jobs. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people working a nine to five job would rather be at the beach all day, but they restrict themselves and go into the office and do their job because in the end, they want more the benefits that they get from job security and financial security for their family and hopefully they do enjoy their job as well.
Melanie Avalon:
Like we're always making choices. There's always lots of things we can want to do all the time. We have to make conscious decisions and choices of what best serves me not just now, but in the long term.
Melanie Avalon:
And by doing something, you're not doing something else. So you're technically always restricting yourself from something in a way.
Vanessa Spina:
That's what I was just going to say. It's restricting yourself from your employer being able to make you work on the weekend. That's another restriction, right? You restrict yourself from working once you leave the office.
Vanessa Spina:
Maybe we have smartphones, and that's kind of a great area. But in general, you restrict yourself from not working Saturday and Sunday, for example. That's a good thing. It's important for you to get rest.
Melanie Avalon:
Wait, like mind blown, you're, it's restricting, but it's literally choosing something, which is like the opposite of restriction, like the literal opposite. Oh man, think about that for a second. Let that marinate.
Vanessa Spina:
So I was saying on the last episode that I had just interviewed Rob Wolf and he was very passionate in our interview about the word restriction and about how it's like the main critique that is used, I guess, against him a lot that, you know, that like his paleo diet is like too restrictive and he's like, I'm helping people like reverse autoimmune conditions here.
Vanessa Spina:
Like, why is this, you know, so he said he was going to, he was starting to push back a little bit on that because, and if you follow him on social media, he pushes back on a lot of stuff lately. But yeah, I totally get the comment and, and where you're coming from.
Vanessa Spina:
And I, I, I think that that's, you know, you definitely don't want to be in a position where you feel like you're obsessing. That's something that again, like I want to address in some of the other questions that we have specifically about fasting on the next episode, because there's a lot of questions about fasting, stressing the body, et cetera.
Vanessa Spina:
And I think, you know, you have to really check in with yourself and ask yourself, like, is this something that is making me feel like bad? Like, like you were saying in your comments, like if the idea of having an eating window, like gives you stress or makes it feel like you're being too restrictive, it may not be for you, right?
Vanessa Spina:
Like, I think that's an important consideration. Exactly.
Melanie Avalon:
as the theme of this podcast often is, you have to find what works for you. We're all individual. But thank you for the comments, Stephanie. I really appreciate it. And for the emojis, she included nice emojis in it.
Melanie Avalon:
We love the emojis. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. I can't wait to dive more into all of this next episode. And for listeners, you can submit your own questions to the show by emailing questions at iapodcast .com, or you can go to iapodcast .com and you can submit questions there.
Melanie Avalon:
You can also ask questions in my Facebook group, I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. The show notes for today's episode will be at iapodcast .com slash episode 369. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about.
Melanie Avalon:
So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are iapodcast. I am Melanie Avalon and Vanessa, where you can see her post, although this is a little bit in the future, so you might have to scroll back.
Melanie Avalon:
But the post of her hair without extensions is ketogenic girl. So, yep. Well, this has been so, so fabulous, Vanessa. I will talk to you next week.
Vanessa Spina:
Sounds great. Talk to you next week. Bye
Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
STUFF WE LIKE
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
LINKS
BUY:
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Vanessa's Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight
The Tone Device Breath Ketone Analyzer
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com
Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com
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