Welcome to Episode 381 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
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SHOW NOTES
BUTCHERBOX: For a limited time go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast and get ground chicken, ground sirloin, or ground pork—for free in every order for a whole year! Plus, get $20 off your first order!
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Listener Q&A: Kel - I would be very interested in learning about what lengths of fasting help reduce the risk of Alzheimer’s.
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #256 - Max Lugavere
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #252 - Nathan Price, PhD and Leroy Hood, MD, PhD
Effects of intermittent fasting on cognitive health and Alzheimer’s disease
Boost brain health and slow mental aging with 10 intriguing tips from longevity experts
Listener Q&A: Michele - Do you girls know anything about Mody diabetes?
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 381 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
Hi, everybody. and welcome. This is episode number 381 of the Intermerge in Fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Vanessa Spina. Hi, everyone. What is new in your life, Vanessa?
Vanessa Spina:
Well, we've been really having a great summer so far. We went to the lake last week, which is down south. And it was so much fun just to take. We were only there for like Sunday to Wednesday, but it was such a nice break out of the city. We did tons of swimming. Luca got to go on this. There's this like bobsled thing. It's like it's kind of like a race car on a track. And he got to do it with his dad and I and like sitting on Pete's lap in front of him and then also with me. And you kind of go through this like coaster and they just have all these fun like hikes and everything. It was so much fun just being there together. It's been sort of the highlight of our summer so far. So it was really, really nice. And yeah, I'm just happy it's summer and it's gorgeous out. And it's actually light out. Like now it's 8 30 in Prague looking outside. It looks like 4 p .m. or something. So that's really nice too when we're podcasting together. So I also appreciate the late long days. When does it get like dark there? Like in the winter, it's very dark. Like it'll get dark around like 4 30. During the summer though? In the summer. Oh, it doesn't get dark until like 10. And then it's light again at like four. Wow.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, we did make it to the summer solstice, which I loved that day. Do you know why?
Vanessa Spina:
We love it too. We think it should be a holiday. We always celebrate it, but why do you?
Melanie Avalon:
Because every day after that is shorter. It's like you made it to the top of the hill and then it's like downward coasting.
Vanessa Spina:
you prefer that the darkness? Yeah, yes.
Melanie Avalon:
I didn't realize until this year, I felt so not intelligent, that I didn't realize the seasons are based on the sun. I thought it was the same day every year. I thought summer was the same day every year. I just learned it's based on the sun and changes.
Vanessa Spina:
So it changes every year based on like the sun cycles, the summer solstice. Yeah, I kind of knew that just because my husband's like all the seasons are like that.
Melanie Avalon:
Who knew it kind of moves around but yeah, I was telling you on Instagram. I love I love when you have your stories of all Your adventures with your family. I love watching them Everybody's so like cute and happy and you're always doing adventures and makes me feel good Everybody watch Vanessa's stories or do you post them on your on your private? No. Yeah, that's a private Well apply for friendship And then watch
Vanessa Spina:
her stories. Yeah, I don't really put the kids much on the public stuff because it's more like my work and stuff. But I do post things here and there. Well, I do love I love your stories. Thank you. How's your summer going so far?
Melanie Avalon:
It's going well, it is summer, it is hot. There was something I told you I wanted to talk about on the show. So we work with a lot of sponsors on the show, and we got one recently. And I've actually never done this before. I had used the product in the past. I felt really good about the science. So I felt really good having them sponsor the show when I recorded the ad. And then I started retaking the product like this time around. And I'm so obsessed with it. I actually went and rerecorded the ad to talk about how obsessed I am with it. Like that's how you know, like to take. I think I know what you're talking about. Have you taken seed probiotic?
Vanessa Spina:
I haven't, but I heard you talk about it just in our messages.
Melanie Avalon:
So basically, this is why I feel the need to to talk about I literally tell everybody like my sister Like people come to my apartment. I'm like, have you tried see probiotic? I like pull it out Like take it now, but basically I just know a lot of our listeners me included you know struggle with gut issues or really trying to optimize their gut health and the probiotic world is It's so Nebulists and nuanced and there's so many different Probiotic strains and it can be hard to find one that works for you So I historically I've always tried a lot of different ones. Oh, like I I do really love for example I've taken By optimizers p3 om I still take that one because that one specifically helps break down protein and I eat a high protein diet So I like that one, but I started retaking seed and I was so I first heard about them a few years ago On a podcast that the founders and I was so intrigued by all the science they've done on it So basically so like to date now they've done 10 clinical trials and 14 preclinical trials Which is crazy but basically they've really looked into the strains that are in this probiotic and The effects they found are incredible and i'm experiencing them as well. So they have found in their trials that Their formulation which is called ds01 that it supports digestive health So it helps with gas bloating constipation it actually so the probiotic Actually helps hydrate your stool, which helps pass your stool easier. So people who struggle with constipation They found that it helps maintain gut barrier integrity, which is really really important for digestion as well as food sensitivities and things like that They found that it helps support the immune system Cardiovascular health so they found that it helps have beneficial effects on cholesterol and then this is interesting And this is what i'm really really noticing So skin health so they found in some of their studies that this probiotic actually helps with fine lines and wrinkles And supports a youthful appearance of the skin and when I read that I was like, okay Well, maybe no i'm like noticing it. It's crazy. I'm noticing it in my skin. My digestion is so much better Oh and something else really cool is they found that it supports folate production And so for people who struggle with mthfr Or really keeping their their methylation and control I think folate is so so important or if you have high homocysteine levels having adequate folate can help reduce that And so their probiotic has been shown to support that They have a really cool encapsulation that they use that helps get the probiotic exactly where it needs to get into your gut And also their sustainability mission is amazing. I I'm really inspired by them. I'm using them as my inspiration for future packaging and things like that because their Packaging is sustainable what they do for the planet. They have a refill system. That's amazing. So Yeah, but I I just i'm really noticing it with my My digestion my bloating and my skin are the main places i'm really noticing it. So If listeners would like to try it i'm obsessed and their offer is also amazing I love it when brands have amazing offers. So you actually can get 25% off Which is so cool. Just go to seed .com slash if podcast And use the code 2 5 if podcast so 25 if podcast that will get you 25 off their ds zero one Probiotic. Yes, so I just felt the need to share this because I am noticing such a big difference and I plan to keep taking it indefinitely Huh? Those are my thoughts. Do you take?
Vanessa Spina:
Abrobiotic, Vanessa? I do. I take one by bi -optimizer.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, the one I mentioned, yeah, the P3OM. I really like, yeah, I like stacking these because by optimizers is just one strain essentially. This is, it's like the gamut. It's like 24 clinically and scientifically studied strains. I sometimes get nervous with probiotics because of histamine reactions and things like that. I have not had any issues with that at all. I had something amazing. I definitely want to try it. I love it. It's funny because I've been talking with our business partner, Scott, and he's like, we should make a probiotic. And okay, so I'm not saying that I'm, you know, I'm never going to make a probiotic, but that is a whole world where there's so much research and it's so evolving and different things work for different people that I'm like, I'll just let Seed handle it for now. And I do really like, you know, by optimizers, P3OM as well. So I'm not saying I'm not going to make it now, but I really like when I find companies that basically I feel so good about what they're doing that I can just wholeheartedly, you know, endorse them. So yep, yep. Anything else for us to touch on or shall we jump into some things?
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, sure. I'm ready to jump in. Cool. Would you like to read the first question? Our first question is from Kel, and she's asking, I would be very interested in learning about lengths of fasting to help reduce the risks of Alzheimer's, please.
Melanie Avalon:
Okie dokie. So this was really good timing for this question from Kel, because I actually, although it will be in the past now, but I just released my episode with Max Lugavere, my second episode with him, which was really, really an honor. I think I told you about that, right? About interviewing him again. I brought him back on the show. He wrote Genius Foods, The Genius Life. He has a cookbook as well. He's really a figure in the preventing cognitive decline, addressing Alzheimer's, brain health world. And he has a new documentary out called Little Empty Boxes, which was really haunting and beautiful. He actually filmed it over years and years while his mother was experiencing cognitive decline. And I probably mentioned this on the show before, but I was so, so honored when he came on because he told me that I was one of the only people who had seen the film at that point because he only went on a few podcasts for it, which was such an honor. And then like, for example, I aired the episode this past Friday. And on the same day, like he was on my show and he was on Rogan. I was like, oh my goodness.
Vanessa Spina:
This is crazy. I didn't see it was on Rogan. Yeah, yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
And I just listened to that episode as well, and it was really good. So I highly recommend checking out his work, but it's been top of my mind, basically preventing cognitive decline in Alzheimer's from researching to interview him, really just diving deep into it and watching the documentary and such. And so then I went and actually did some more research on fasting specifically for Alzheimer's. And so before I dive into the actual studies that I found, something also worth mentioning is I also, a few months ago, aired an episode with Lee Hood and Nathan Price. They have a book called The Age of Scientific Wellness. I think I mentioned them before. Nathan Price is CFO at Thorne, or Chief Science Officer, so CSO at Thorne. That's my favorite brand. Oh, yay, yeah. That was surreal to interview him, but I'm like one of the big guys there. I love Thorne as well. And then Lee Hood is the developer of so much, so much technology that went into genetic sequencing and analysis of all of that. He's like a legend. He's one of the oldest guests actually that I've had on the show. He's like had conversations with like Watson and Crick and stuff, which is crazy. In any case, their book is about aging in general, but what they really focus on is how Alzheimer's and cognitive decline and dementia is really like the health issue that seems to be one of the biggest things that we need to tackle when it comes to the future of health and wellness, because it's just eluding us how to really prevent it, reverse it. It's like the thing that seems irreversible once you really start down the path of cognitive decline compared to a lot of other degenerative diseases and chronic diseases where you can, you know, reverse them oftentimes. So they also talk about the importance of addressing Alzheimer's and their big theory in that book is that Alzheimer's really relates to a metabolic issue that the neurons and cells in the brain are not able to properly generate energy and things just start, you know, not working and get worse and worse. So that's just a broad overview picture of how important or how much intermittent fasting can help support metabolic health and energy generation. And so not only does it help support metabolic health, help reduce energy issues with like blood sugar control and insulin, and I'll go on a tangent about that as well. But on top of that, you also produce ketones while fasting and ketones are a very excellent source of energy for the brain. They're an alternative source of energy to glucose and the brain is very glucose hungry in general. So like it needs, you know, it needs glucose to function. And so something that might be happening a lot in cognitive decline and Alzheimer's is the brain literally just can't use glucose and energy anymore. We actually know that insulin, another thing that happens that's interesting is insulin, which helps regulate blood sugar, also helps, I think, break down amyloid plaque. Like it helps degrade things in the brain and keep things clean. And so if insulin is being used constantly to deal with blood sugar, that kind of negative ramifications and keeping the brain quote clean. Yeah, so there's just so much potential benefit for fasting and cognitive decline and dementia and things like that. And so looking into actual studies, so I found a really nice review from April 2023. It was called Effects of Intermittent Fasting on Cognitive Health and Alzheimer's Disease. And it was published in Nutrition Review. They had a lot of findings. I'll just like read the conclusion, which is very short. But their conclusion was that the observations lead to a hypothesis that intermittent fasting over the years will potentially reverse or delay the pathological process and Alzheimer's disease. And then to get more specific, so some of the things they found, they found that fasting in general tends to have a lot of implications and effects on the mechanisms that are associated with dementia and cognitive decline. It really helps potentially address what might be going on there. And so in animal studies, there's been a lot of, they've found a lot of benefits on cognitive function in animals and memory, mental processing when they're fasting. And they do talk about how the state of fasting, that response evolutionarily supports high brain function because historically, when we were fasting, we had to be finding food. So we had to be cognitively vigilant, like we had to be alert and awake and go find food. So the effects of fasting naturally work to support the brain and brain function. So some of the different mechanisms I mentioned before about how fasting benefits insulin resistance. So like I was saying before, they found that it helps benefit insulin resistance. Like I was mentioning before, actually, some people have even posited, they call cognitive decline and Alzheimer's type 3 diabetes, whether or not that's actually the case or, you know, the full story is yet to be determined. But definitely anything that benefits insulin resistance will likely help benefit the brain as well. Other things happen while fasting that support the brain. So it helps reduce oxidative stress and damage to the mitochondria, which is highly involved in cognitive decline. So basically, our brain cells, their mitochondria, which is the energy production part of the cells tend to be struggling and, you know, experiencing oxidative stress and issues and fasting can help help address that by helping with antioxidant mechanisms, helping repair DNA, helping remove cellular waste in the brain. Another thing that I hear about all the time, like on different podcasts and books and all the things is how we know that fasting supports something called BDNF, which is brain derived neurotropic factor. And that is actually it's sort of like miracle grow for the brain, like it, it really helps support brain cells. And we see that elevated during fasting. So that's amazing. Kind of going back to how I was saying that cognitive decline in Alzheimer's might be a metabolic issue. The paradigm that was presented in that book, The Age of Scientific Wellness, when they presented it as being related to a metabolic issue, they're basically saying that issues with the brain relate to greater issues in the body overall. So with the metabolic issue and metabolic syndrome, that extends to so much in the body. And a part of that is cardiovascular health. And so there seems to be a connection between cardiovascular health and brain health. So vascular health, the endothelial cells, and brain health. And there's been a lot of studies showing benefits of fasting on vascular health as well. So that might be a potential mechanism for how it helps. So when they went through human trials, they did note that there are limited trials looking specifically at fasting and Alzheimer's, for example. So a lot of this is more looking at mechanisms and things that happen during fasting and how we would assume that that's really helping benefit the brain and helping prevent Alzheimer's. There have been some studies with mixed results, like some seeing improved working memory and performance, others not finding that. So there's a lot of factors that could be going on. And they posit at the end that maybe it has to do with compliance issues or how the studies were set up. So it's hard to point to specific human trials on this, especially because cognitive decline and Alzheimer's happens. We know it happens for years and years, and this is what Max Lugavere talks about. By the time you have signs of dementia and Alzheimer's, it was a long time coming. And that's why prevention is so key. And so we don't really have studies that have looked at people for fasting for 10 years and how it affects Alzheimer's. Those studies just haven't been done. I would love for them to be done. But I definitely think there's a lot of potential for fasting to help with all of this. And interestingly, in this review with their analysis of the data, they proposed that basically intermittent fasting may not be quite as beneficial or as effective in reducing amyloid load in the brain, which I will circle back to that, in cases of Alzheimer's that are completely genetic, like familial Alzheimer's disease, that it was probably more effective just for the amyloid deposition part of it and late onset Alzheimer's, which is with versions coming more from dietary choices and lifestyle rather than more on the genetic side. To circle back to the amyloid piece. So that is a whole rabbit hole. People may or may not be familiar, but there's been a really huge upshift, a really, really huge shift in the perspective of amyloid plaque and its role in Alzheimer's disease. I think when people think Alzheimer's and dementia, they think, oh, amyloid plaque, like that's the thing. And a lot of the drugs on the market that try to address Alzheimer's work by trying to remove amyloid plaque. There was a study that in the past, I don't know when this happened, in the past year or so was found, it was a key study really supporting this hypothesis and it was found to be fabricated. Basically, they just made up stuff in order to get drug approvals for certain things. And that's really, really concerning. And it means that, you know, a lot of these medications on the market are based on faulty data and it makes sense looking at it that way because we know that in general, the different drugs that are out there for Alzheimer's just don't seem to really work. And there seems to be, like, there's not really a correlation. There is a correlation, but it's a confusing correlation between plaque and Alzheimer's disease. So basically, you can have people who have autopsies after death who did not have any signs of cognitive decline, any other brain is full of plaque. On the flip side, you can have people with cognitive decline who don't have as much plaque as you would expect. So things don't really seem to match up. And then also, like I said, a lot of these drugs work by targeting removing amyloid plaque and yet they don't fix Alzheimer's. On top of that, as I was reading about in the age of scientific wellness, there's now a theory that amyloid plaque might actually be protective. So basically, there's an issue happening that's not the amyloid plaque in the brain. And then as a response to that, as a protective mechanism, amyloid plaque develops. What I was thinking about this analogy, I was thinking about this last night, is that I don't know that this is exactly the case. But it could be a situation where it would be like if you pass something and you just see tons of police cars and if you started seeing that a lot of different places, would you think the police cars are the problem and we need to get rid of the police? Or is it that the police are there because there was a problem there? And I think that might be something that happens with amyloid plaque. So basically, it's really, really confusing. Point being is I think it's pretty clear now that amyloid plaque is not like the cause of Alzheimer's. It's definitely not what's the word. There's a phrase for this, necessary but not sufficient. So basically, you likely will have amyloid plaque if there's cognitive decline in Alzheimer's, but it on its own does not substantiate or completely cause Alzheimer's. There's probably some greater metabolic or some other issue at play happening. So all of that to say, intermittent fasting, we know just can really support a state of the body that really can extend to brain health. So going back over it again, helping with insulin, helping with metabolic help, helping with cardiovascular disease, antioxidant status, inflammation, so many things. I think it becomes pretty clear that I would definitely look to fasting as something to help prevent cognitive decline. And especially going back to what I was saying earlier, we know that cognitive decline starts years and years before there are symptoms. So if you can be doing something, a lifestyle choice that helps support brain health, I mean, do it. And that's what intermittent fasting can really help do. So I'll just read their longer conclusion. Their final, final conclusion, they said, there are no definite treatments or preventative drugs for dementias arising from Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative diseases. Notably, the pathological processes and Alzheimer's disease are complex and extend beyond beta amyloid plaque and tau. So tau protein is these entangled proteins that also are seen in cases of Alzheimer's. They said our current understanding of Alzheimer's is that it likely reflects a proximate etiology rather than the original cause. So basically, the way we're looking at Alzheimer's right now and thinking certain things are the cause of it, they're probably not actually the root cause, kind of like what I was saying earlier. And so they say that vascular disease plays a critical role in late onset Alzheimer's. Oxygen free radicals and genome mutations are also implicated. In this context, it is worth considering intermittent fasting, given its favorable, favorable impact on vascular endothelium, cellular metabolism, production of oxygen free radicals, and consequent diminished risk for genome mutations. They say that intermittent fasting for 12 to 24 hours appears to be a promising approach to reduce the risk of Alzheimer's pathology and its clinical manifestation of dementia. They note that for findings, they have findings from animal studies showing favorable impacts of intermittent fasting, as well as human studies showing the benefits of fasting and reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease, inflammatory conditions and obesity, which are all associated with Alzheimer's. And then at the very end, they say intermittent fasting may be tested and clinical trials of Alzheimer's disease for safety, feasibility and efficacy, given the broad cellular and metabolic impact of intermittent fasting that can favorably affect Alzheimer's disease pathology from multiple angles. In particular, beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and promoting vascular health and reducing oxidative damage provide empirical support for such trials. So long story short takeaway is lots of promise there. We definitely need more trials. I personally don't think it's one of the best things you could do to help prevent potentially prevent cognitive decline. Vanessa, do you have thoughts?
Vanessa Spina:
Well, thank you for that incredible recap and providing all that amazing information that was so thorough. I learned so much from it. And I'm so glad that this question was asked. I recently became more interested in the subject because I have a close friend who has a parent with dementia. And so I was sending them some studies on ketone use and I was recommending they start using MCT oil powder on a like a daily protocol a couple of times a day. And I was sending them all the research showing that this is something that I've known for a long time, but there now is so much research validating ketones. As you mentioned, it, you know, Alzheimer's is now being re perceived, perceived in a new way as diabetes of the brain. And so ketones provide this alternate fuel for the brain as you were talking about. And fasting produces that in some cases, though, I think, especially with someone who's older, fasting is not always going to be ideal for them, depending on their state, like with their muscle mass, et cetera. So if they're not able to fast, they can take MCTs as exogenous ketones, and they'll have ketones there, but you're basically doing the same thing as what you would get through fasting. You're just taking the ketones exogenous. So that's something to consider as well. I love that you mentioned BDNF. That was some of the research that really excited me early on. I got to interview Dr. Mark Madsen a lot about that. But his research on BDNF and intermittent fasting is really great for anyone who wants to look into it further because he wrote a book as well. I think that came out last year and he documents it a lot. So people are interested in fasting and BDNF, brain derived neurotraffic factor. It really is amazing what it does for the brain. So I agree with you. I think fasting is an amazing tool for the brain. And the main two reasons how I perceive it is with regards to BDNF and ketones. I'm not as familiar with the amyloid plaques, et cetera. But I think the MCT oil stuff is really promising. And I've started taking it myself. I've become more recently really interested in cognition because I've been so sleep deprived in the last few years since I started having babies. And I just noticed that my performance when I was podcasting was really starting to suffer in the last, especially six months, especially when I started podcasting. And the second time I just found that I couldn't always recall the word that I wanted to, like I would recall the second best word. So that's something I mentioned on the podcast previously, that now when I podcast, I fast during the day to get myself more deeply into ketosis and my performance is completely back when it comes to podcasting. So on my podcast today, I did not because I had dinner right before we podcasted. But if I had continued fasting until 7 p .m., which is when we start recording, I know that my podcast, my podcasting would be way better. So another thing that I've started doing is when I do have episodes that I'm recording and I haven't fasted, I will have a coffee with MCT oil powder in it before. And that is also really helping makes me more alert and it gives me the ketones. But if I'm fasting, I don't need the caffeine or the ketones. So I wanted to mention that as well.
Melanie Avalon:
I cannot agree more and I find it really intriguing that I hope there's more and more studies on the MCTs and the benefits for the brain because I know I've been following that for a while and I just think there's so much potential there. So I'm really, really excited for there to be more research and we'll definitely put links to all of those resources that you talked about. I was also curious because I remember I did an article in Fox News where it was all about brain health and I was like, did I talk about fasting and that? So I just googled it and I did. It says, Avalon also recommended intermittent fasting, a pattern of eating in which you restrict the hours you eat each day rather than the amount of food you eat as a means of supporting cognitive function. During intermittent fasting, the brain can switch to utilizing ketones generated from fat as an additional fuel source, reducing its reliance on glucose, she said. This may be protective against cognitive decline. Additionally, ketones produced during fasting trigger higher levels. Oh, I remember, I remember this because it says produced during fasting trigger higher levels of proteins that help protect the brain and boost memory and learning, Avalon added. I remember because when I sent for Fox sent them these answers, I said that it boosts BDNF. And then I guess they wanted to make it more accessible to the public. And so they looked at BDNF and it technically is like a protein. But I remember I when I read this, I was like, Oh, no, like, is that I was so stressed. I was like, is that is that correct? Like, is it actually proteins? But it's just it's funny how much when we hear the word protein, like how we just revert to thinking, at least for me, when I heard the word protein, I revert to thinking like dietary protein, like muscle building protein, which is a very myopic view of protein, when really proteins are so many different things in the body. But I'm just having flashbacks now to that moment. So I'll put a link to that article as well. It's called boost brain health and slow mental aging with 10 intriguing tips from longevity experts. Do you have any in your family? Has there been cognitive decline or dementia, Vanessa?
Vanessa Spina:
Thankfully not, however, I think that inevitably, you know, the older you get, I think it's something that affects everyone in your brain, you know, relies on this mitochondria. As you're mentioning, there's so many in the brain, and mitochondria over time just get damaged from the energy production process. So, as you mentioned, because fasting reduces oxidative stress, it means you're going to have your mitochondria in better shape, and just living, just existing, is going to wear on your mitochondria, especially if you don't practice fasting, if you eat a standard western American diet, if you don't do resistance training, you don't exercise much, you know, they've done studies where they've shown exercisers and athletes tend to have and retain way more of their mitochondria and also way more of their mitochondria's horsepowers, so to speak. So, I think it's inevitable just from living, eventually your mitochondria are going to take a hit. If you do a lot of the lifestyle things that we talk about, that we practice, that we talk about on this podcast, on our separate podcasts, I think you're going to give yourself an advantage for sure. But even if it doesn't run in the family, even if there's not a genetic predisposition, I think it's something everyone needs to pay attention to, and I'm certainly paying attention to it more, because I've been noticing, you know, with the sleep deprivation, wow, like it really can accelerate, you know, I'm not saying mitochondrial damage, but it can give you a preview of what could come later on. So, taking MCTs, fasting, is something that I've started to get more of my family into as well, since I've started researching that for my friend, and yeah, I don't have it in the family though, no.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, I'm really glad to hear that about your family. Same here, except my grandmother had a stroke and then she got dementia after that. So it was not due to, you know, it was from the stroke. And I agree about, like it's inevitable that, it's inevitable that our mitochondria are going to face, you know, the challenges of life and aging and all those things. And I think for most people, it's not inevitable that they will experience cognitive decline if they really are preventative with all of these lifestyle choices and doing everything that they can. And there are some cases, you know, where it's for the genetic disposition, it's, you know, going to happen. That's very, very rare, the numbers of, you know, purely genetic, like familial Alzheimer's disease and things like that. I just think there's so much agency that we can take. So it's really nice to hear that you're, that you were able to support your friend. That way by telling them about the MCT oil. Is it their parent you said?
Vanessa Spina:
Yes, it's there.
Melanie Avalon:
their father, their father. Well, that's really great that he can take that and hopefully see changes. So, hokey dokey. Shall we jump into another question? Yes, that sounds great. All right, so now we have a question from Michelle and this was on Facebook and she says, hi Melanie and Vanessa, I love your show. I have a question about modal diabetes. Melanie, you and Jen actually answered a question related to this on the podcast in November 2021, episode 239. At that time, I'd written to ask you about my recent lab results. I had a fasting insulin of three, but my fasting blood glucose was 130 and my HPA1C was 6 .3. You suggested that I chat with my doctor more about the possibility of diabetes. Well, it took a lot longer than it should have, but I just recently found out that I have modal diabetes. It stands for maturity onset diabetes of the young. It's genetic, my sister has it too and it's also rare. I have MODI2, which is when there is a mutation on the GCK gene. This type is usually asymptomatic and doesn't require treatment. Do you girls know anything about MODI diabetes? I'm wondering if fasting will benefit me at all with this condition. I know it's individual and each person will be different when it comes to fasting. I've only been doing 14 to 15 hour fast lately. I haven't been pushing it because life is stressful right now and I don't want to overly stress my body. I do like to give my body a little digestive rest each day. I did really well with fasting when I first started during lockdown, but that time of life was very chill for me. I was not stressed at all. I was able to sleep and relax. Also, I used to be so frustrated that fasting wouldn't bring down my blood glucose, but now I know why. Should I continue fasting? Would longer fast be more helpful? I know it's hard to say, but I'm just wondering if you have any advice for me. I'm trying to lose around 10 to 15 pounds to be at a weight that I feel best, but I can't get the scale to budge. I'm only five two, so 10 to 15 pounds would be very noticeable on me. I appreciate how much you both know about fasting and health in general. Thank you so much. Okay, Vanessa, were you familiar with MODI diabetes?
Vanessa Spina:
This is the first time I actually hear of it. I have heard of something similar, but I hadn't heard of this particular acronym. Yes.
Melanie Avalon:
So I was not familiar either. So I learned a lot researching this. I remember this question. So when I first read this question, I immediately remembered her question because I remember reading it. And then I remember I reached out to my friend James Clement actually, who wrote a book called The Switch, who now I am just remembering that I have a message from him that I haven't answered in a while. So let me make a note to answer him. And he was like, that sounds like diabetes. And I was like, oh yeah, yeah, it does. And her blood test, she had low fasting insulin, but high glucose. He was saying that it sounds like type one diabetes, where your, you know, your pancreas is not releasing insulin. So you have high blood sugar. So I did a lot of research into this type of diabetes, and it's really, really fascinating. It's a subset of diabetes and it's diagnosed later in life. And it's similar, it's more similar to type one in that it has to do with an issue with the pancreatic function and releasing insulin, but it's not an autoimmune condition. So in type one diabetes, the body is essentially destroying the pancreas and it's not able to, you know, properly release insulin. In this form, there's, and there are a lot of different like manifestations of it, but basically the pancreas is just not functioning correctly. So it's not releasing the appropriate amount of insulin. It's just not doing its job, but it's not an autoimmune condition. And what's interesting as well, and this is kind of what Michelle experienced, there's not always symptoms. So people don't always necessarily notice that they have it. It sounds like what can happen a lot is people will just constantly have high blood sugar, but they won't be getting all of the diabetic type signs. Like their body will be releasing enough insulin to like kind of keep it at bay. And so they don't realize that they're in this kind of dire condition when it comes to blood sugar control. So, and they used to think that only about one to 2% of diabetics had this form, but now they're thinking maybe it's more, might be up to 6 .5%. And so my thoughts on it, as far as fasting is concerned. So I think this is definitely a situation of work with your doctor, like work with your doctor. What's interesting before that is I was reading different case studies about it. And some people would be diagnosed with type one diabetes, but they actually had this form. And then they realized they actually didn't need to be on insulin and they were able to go off their medications because of a misdiagnosis. So that's pretty interesting. My thoughts, I'm not a doctor, please work with your doctor. Preferably a doctor who was informed in the health benefits of fasting, but anything that supports metabolic health, I think would be very favorable to this condition because with this condition, you are experiencing a state where your body is going to struggle with proper blood sugar control and metabolic health. And fasting, as we've talked about all throughout this show, is so beneficial for regulating blood sugar, for putting less into the system during the fasted state and giving the pancreas a rest, for helping with inflammation, for helping with weight loss, even though I know Michelle's really struggling with that. But basically, I think there's so much potential. I don't think it's necessarily a cure for this, and I don't know what the solution is because like I said, it's a genetic condition that can come from, I think I said, like 14 different potential manifestations of it. There's an issue there that's genetic and hopefully medicine will find solutions for this in the future. I wouldn't shy away though from fasting. I would definitely try to find a version that works for you. Wear a CGM, see how you're responding, see what works. You would definitely, definitely, definitely want to be working with a doctor and testing your blood sugar levels to make sure that you don't get hypoglycemic or that you have any negative effects from that. So definitely do this with proper monitoring of all the things. But I definitely feel for you, Michelle, because you have this condition that I don't know that there's actually a solution or an answer right now, but I would definitely practice all the helpful dietary and lifestyle things that you can do to help support metabolic health because it's not just the pancreas that's, you know, really in charge of blood sugar control. We know that so much of it, for example, comes from like the liver releasing blood glucose into the bloodstream. You know, fasting is going to have beneficial effects because of the anti -inflammatory effects, the cardiovascular effects, the, like there's so many effects beyond just the actual insulin blood sugar piece that can extend to the whole body and I think have potentially, you know, beneficial effects as well. But thank you for drawing my attention to this because I wasn't even aware of this type of diabetes and now I am. And so my eyes are opened. I think it's going to be really helpful for, you know, things that we hear from listeners in the future and definitely keep us updated on your journey. And I'll read her PS, but Vanessa, do you have any other thoughts about that?
Vanessa Spina:
I think you covered it so thoroughly and I agree I also appreciate now understanding more about this.
Melanie Avalon:
I feel really sorry that she has this condition. I also do really love, you know, learning, learning new things. Her PS is she said, Vanessa, I bought your red light mask and I am loving it.
Vanessa Spina:
It's amazing. I'm so glad you love it. I love it too. That's so great. Thank you so much for ordering it and sharing your experience.
Melanie Avalon:
And also, okay, I'm making this my goal. I'm so bad. I put it, you sent it to me and you were so kind and I put it on my stack of things to try and I honestly, I've just forgotten to try it. So I'm gonna- No worries. No, but I need to try it. It's like what we were talking about last episode with, was it last episode or this episode with the habit stacking? I mean, I know. I just think-
Vanessa Spina:
that things line up sometimes in the perfect time when you're ready for them. So I know that you'll put it on when you're aligned with it if that makes sense and it'll be something that you want to do at that time and it'll be just perfect. So I'm not like worried about when.
Melanie Avalon:
You're gonna try it, if that makes sense? It's 100% going to become a habit. And actually, the other night, I was doing a call with a friend. I was trying to help him with doing some red light therapy for his own health issues that he was trying to address. And he asked me if I was familiar with the mask. And I was like, oh! And I was like, I need to try Vanessa's mask. And so I pulled it out. Like I said, I have this stack of products to try. So I pulled it out. I need to just habit stack it into my life. Like I'm thinking, I'm gonna try it when I'm in the sauna. Or maybe I can do it when I'm sitting on the couch. I'm gonna find the time to habit stack it. I'm gonna start doing it. Do you do it every day? I do it, like,
Vanessa Spina:
four to five days a week. And usually in the morning, they always say sunrise or sunset. I like to do it in the morning and because it's hands -free, that's my favorite thing about it. You can wear it and you can still do things. So you can still see because there's eye protectors. Not that you really need protection from red light because it actually helps your eyes, but there's eyes protectors. So you can have your eyes open without the light sort of like bothering you or anything in terms of your field of vision. And so if you're like watching something, you can watch something. Like I'm usually in the morning, it's my time with Lucas or like cuddling and like doing puzzles or reading. I don't think I've got my mask on, but it's funny. I post sometimes like I'll be on the deck with him in the morning on the terrace and like I'm having coffee and he's having his milk. And I'm like, no one can really see in our terrace, but like I like to think that, when I stand up and walk out, it's like a neighbor happened to catch a glance at me, they'd just be freaked right out. Like they'd be freaked right out. What the heck?
Melanie Avalon:
Jason or something. It's like Jason. About how we just said it.
Vanessa Spina:
I love with this mask, I always like I've done some reels on Instagram about how it actually is kind of cute looking like a lot of the masks that I tested and that I before I launched this one were Jason level creepy and this one is actually kind of cute and I know because the first time I was wearing it one of the first times I was wearing it and Pete came down the hallway and he was like oh it's like it's actually kind of cute and I know like normally he would be like what the are you wearing what are you doing now and he would like tease me or something but he's like it's actually cute something about the shape of it and like the way it's done you don't look like Jason but I still know that if a neighbor like glanced over they'd probably be momentarily like like terrified yeah because like you're just not you know there's something about not seeing people's faces that is very creepy on some level but anyway this mask the crystal mask is cute you'll see you have to when you do try it whenever that time is that you align with it or stack it in your day you'll have to send me a selfie because yeah I don't know what you think
Melanie Avalon:
I definitely will and one comment really quick. Did I tell you I went out once with Jason? Like one of the Jasons, I'm assuming there's lots of Jasons because aren't there a lot of Halloween movies?
Vanessa Spina:
I don't like that genre. So I don't know a lot of ...
Melanie Avalon:
Actually don't know that I've watched the Halloween movies. I'm assuming, I'm assuming there's a lot of different people that play the Jason's probably. Yeah, when I lived in LA. Wow, how was that? That was, I had so many experiences in LA that were not, were not real life. There were just like moments where you're like watching your life happen. You're like, oh, this is happening right now. He looked as intense in real life as, like, he was a very intimidating, like rocker, like large man. And we went to this really famous bar in LA called the Rainbow Bar and where there's always like lots of celebrities. And it was a crazy night. So yeah, fun times. Point being, how can people get your, your mask, which I'm going to try very soon.
Vanessa Spina:
Yes, I can't wait to see what you think of it. If you'd like to check it out, it's at ketogenicgirl .com, and I have the whole Tone Luxe red light therapy collection. There are all the different panels, half body panel, face panel, and this mask is called the Tone Luxe crystal mask.
Melanie Avalon:
Awesome! Well, we will put links to that in the show notes.
Vanessa Spina:
Thank you so much Michelle for sharing that, I love that.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I do too. I can't wait to start trying it. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Well, this has been, I feel like today was a very informative episode. Alzheimer's, modal diabetes, lots to learn. I love these topics. Yeah. So if listeners would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at iphodcast .com or you can go to iphodcast .com and you can submit questions there. These show notes, which will be very important because we talked about a lot, they will have links to everything that we talked about. For that, go to iphpodcast .com slash episode 381. You can get all the stuff that we like at iphpodcast .com slash stuff we like. You can follow us on Instagram. We are I of podcast. I am Melanie Avalon and Vanessa is ketogenic girl, unless you want to try to find her real one and request to follow her and watch her stories. My personal one. Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna have to find that. You're gonna have to sneak, you're gonna have to like scope that one out. Yeah. So I think that's all the things. Anything from you? Sorry, you said.
Vanessa Spina:
Bye for friendship. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
Isn't that kind of like when you follow somebody, that's what it feels like, you know? Like if they follow you back, it's like they accept your friendship request. Yes.
Vanessa Spina:
It's it's it's so true. Hack me up.
Melanie Avalon:
the world we live in. So, well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week.
Vanessa Spina:
Sounds great. Talk to you then and thanks to everyone for wonderful questions as always. Yes, yes. Bye.
Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
LINKS
BUY:
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Vanessa's Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight
The Tone Device Breath Ketone Analyzer
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com
Original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
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