Welcome to Episode 394 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
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SHOW NOTES
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Amy's introduction to intermittent fasting
Perimenopausal weight gain
Social push back to weight loss
Amy's fasting window and eating pattern
Nutrition to support exercise
Getting injured and recovering with red light
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Food choices
NAD+ injections and patches
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Being a Nurse Practitioner
Prescribing GLP1s
Tips for new fasters
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 394 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 394 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I have a very special guest here today on the show. So we have been doing some episodes on this show, which are a little bit of a new and different format, which is interviewing you guys about your intermittent fasting stories. And it's been really, really fun. And honestly, some of the inspiration for it has been reading listener questions on the show and really enjoying when people share a lot about their stories and just wanting to know more. Today's guest, I am so excited to be here with. It is Amy Wrenn. She's from Orlando, and she has a really incredible story about her Intermittent Fasting journey and something we'll talk about. She's actually a nurse practitioner, which it's always so, so exciting to see the world of intermittent fasting enter the medical field.So I'm really, really excited to touch on that. We were chatting before this, but I just have so many questions for you, Amy.
Amy Wrenn:
Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Melanie Avalon:
So you were saying you've been listening to this show for how long? Since
Amy Wrenn:
2019? 2017? Yep. 2019. 2018. 2018. One or the other. A long time.
Melanie Avalon:
You've been on the journey with us then for quite a while. And that actually relates to how you first started intermittent fasting or had you said that you found it through an Instagram reel, which now I'm thinking about, do you remember the actual reel you saw? Like, well, what was the magic in it that made it really land with you? I'm being selfish here trying to like figure out how to make better...Reels. It's kind of a rabbit hole.
Amy Wrenn:
I, so are you familiar with the Holderness family? They have, they probably have a TikTok and a YouTube, I don't know, but I used to, I still follow them on Facebook and they're in their forties and they make like cute, they make cute videos together. And they also have a podcast, which I was not listening to, but one day I was watching and she looked so good and I was a little bit like jealous. I'm like, how is she looking so good? I am struggling over here. And she mentioned this thing called intermittent fasting. And she mentioned that she was seeing this doctor in North Carolina, a functional medicine doctor. Well, she's actually an MD and a functional medicine doctor. And they started talking about it on their thing. And I was like, I want to do this. I want to learn more about it. So I just got on my phone and went into the podcast and I just typed in intermittent fasting and your podcast was the first one that came up.So I press play and listened to episode number two and was like hooked from there. And I think you and Jen on that particular episode was like, what's your top 10 favorite things about fasting? And you both went through your top 10 favorite things. And I was like, Oh my God, there's, this is more than just weight loss. There, there's a lot of things that go with this. And I just, from there, I listened. Cause I don't know. You guys were not on like episode 200 yet, but there was well over a hundred episodes. So I, as I started fasting, I listened to you guys every single day. And it was really great because I felt like I had a support group cause you know, fasting, the weight loss is not fast. And I feel like a lot of people fall off because they want to see that number on the scale.They want to see their clothes fitting differently. But what got me through that period of not really seeing any changes was listening to you guys every day, just repeatedly say about all the other changes that are happening in your body and all the different health benefits and listening to the questions. And so I had my own, like very own little support system through you guys. And it really, really helped bridge that gap for the first 30 days for me.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, so crazy. It's so weird to think that I've been in people's heads that long.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, you have. I feel like I know you very well.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, so questions about all of that. Before that, had you been trying a lot of different diet approaches? And if so, what were the intentions for doing that originally? Were you trying to lose weight, health conditions? Where were you at before?
Amy Wrenn:
So six months before my 40th birthday, everything changed. I am a pretty petite girl. I'm 5 '2". I've always been small. I grew up a ballet dancer. I never had to diet before. I had no coping skills for losing weight because I had never had to lose weight before. I think it was maybe to the day, six months before my 40th birthday, I stepped on the scale like I normally did and I was up two pounds and I had not been up two pounds in years with the exception of pregnancies. I had pretty much stayed the same weight. I ate what I thought was a healthy diet. I ate my three meals a day. I had snacks. I was working as a nurse and I had children and exercise. I mean, I exercised quite a bit. So I was like, what is this two pound weight gain? Then the next month, another two pounds and then the next month, another two pounds to where I got to the point where I was 20 pounds overweight, which I was weighing what I weighed in pregnancy without changing my diet, without changing my exercise.I went to several doctors and bless their hearts. They didn't know what to do with me and I know people see it all the time, but they're like, you're normal. Everything's fine. And nobody cared that because I was still considered, I wasn't obese and there was lots of people who I'm sure were like, oh, I wish I weighed that, but 20 pounds is 20 pounds and I was very depressed. And on top of that, I got acne rosacea at now 40 years old and I was having joint pain, particularly in my fingers and my knuckles, just really bad joint pain and difficulty sleeping through the night. So just all of a sudden, this like turning 40 thing punched me in the face. And for two years, I really struggled. I tried the whole my fitness pal and monitoring calories, which was just absolutely miserable.I felt like I was always hungry. I was never satisfied. If I broke down and ate something, then this whole guilt and shame and you're making bad choices. And then I tried the eating to every hours. That's something that I happened upon and that was a great way to gain more weight. And then I finally got to keto. I did keto for seven months. I think I lost seven pounds doing keto. And what I did like about keto was at least there was some science behind it. I was like, okay, this, this, their science, this is how it works. This is why it works. I never lost more than seven pounds. And I was so miserable. I really like I felt like I had to think every time I went to eat, I had to really think about what I was eating. I didn't enjoy food. I really enjoy fruit. I really enjoy a sandwich. I also really enjoy potatoes. Like it was I wasn't very unhappy with it. And I finally was like, just forget it. And then I had, so then I gained the weight back and then I happened upon intermittent fasting.And when I first started, I was white knuckling it like at 11 o 'clock, I would get a headache. And I really just that hole in the beginning where my body was not metabolically flexible. It, I had low energy and headaches. And then when I was time for me to eat, I was overeating. But because I was listening to the podcast, I knew all these things were normal. And I knew that appetite correction was going to come. And I knew the weight loss was going to come. And it did. It took some time, but it did. But I had the other pleasant surprises were my, oh, my IBS went away. It was having some bad stomach issues. My joint pain went away. My face cleared up. I had more energy. I could think better like just all the wonderful things. And what I really, really, really love is that I eat a pretty healthy diet. I feel like I make good choices, but I could eat what I wanted, I didn't have to cut any macros out, so I could eat what I wanted.It was great. And ironically, once I did lose the 20 pounds, and it did not happen overnight, honestly, it took about two years. Every time I thought I was done losing weight, and then a couple months later, I would lose a couple more pounds. And then I thought I was done, and then a couple months later, I would lose a couple more pounds. So at the end of two years, in which I'm five plus now, I did finally stop. And I looked better at 47 than I did in my late 30s. So I'm loving it. It is a way of life forever for me.
Melanie Avalon:
Like to comment on the two pounds and the 20 pounds and that whole piece. I really like talking about that aspect of it because I think there's all this focus and you kind of mentioned it as well. Like there's a big focus on people who have extraordinary amounts of weight to lose, which is wonderful when they find things that work for them with intermittent fasting. We actually, the last girl I interviewed on this show, she had a much larger weight loss that she achieved with intermittent fasting. At the same time, these smaller amounts on people, it can be just as hard. People might think, oh, you know, you're not that overweight. It's it'll be easier. But weight loss resistance is weight loss resistance. Finding the diet that actually helps you burn into that fat is can be just as hard or or easy if you find the path that works for you as it is for other people with large amounts of weight loss.And then also what we know is that the way it happens for a lot of people is that slow, steady, just gaining a pound or two every year or so, you know, like, and then you don't realize and then you wake up one day like you said, and it's 20 pounds more, which when you start from a small frame, 20 pounds is, you know, relatively a lot on your frame and any amount of soapbox here. But I just feel like any amount of weight that feels like a burden to your body metabolically and such is warranted to find something that works. So thank you for sharing your experience there with that. Did you experience like socially people ever giving you pushback about wanting to lose weight? Oh, my God.
Amy Wrenn:
I experienced so much pushback from my friends that I was starving myself. Yes, I experienced a lot of pushback in the beginning, maybe for the first year. And it's funny because his friends now come to me for weight loss advice. And it's now something now that I'm a nurse practitioner, it's something I specialize in as well. But yes, I had a lot of pushback in the beginning. But the proof is in the pudding. And I look and feel great now. And I'm very strong, I've always exercised through this and I work out fasted. And I know there's a little bit of noise right now about once you're in your 40s and working out fasting and blah, blah, blah. But I was like, you know what, this is just, it's working for me. I'm not gonna change anything because it's working so well. But yes, I had a lot of pushback, a lot of resistance in the beginning.
Melanie Avalon:
have that pushed back with all of the different dietary approaches you were trying or was it more? Nope. Isn't it so interesting? Yes. Yes, it really is. I wonder if that's because we're just accustomed to all the different dietary approaches and like trying, you know, calorie counting or trying eating different things. But the idea of not eating, I just wonder why it's so different to people and why people give it pushbacks.
Amy Wrenn:
I don't know. There were some strong opinions. I will tell you that much, some strong opinions, but I didn't let it stop me. And part of it is because I had your podcast as a resource and as a support system that really, truly helped me just keep plugging away. And I would say, so I started at the end of March, April, May, June, but three months in, 90 days in, you could tell. Other people could tell. Like, I just, I feel like I had a glow. I have this picture, my friend, and I went to a concert and I was like, that's the moment you could tell. I had a glow about me like, hey, what are you doing? You look great. And I felt great.
Melanie Avalon:
What concert was it?
Amy Wrenn:
It wasn't Taylor, unfortunately, it was Rob Thomas.
Melanie Avalon:
I recently have realized how much I love going to concerts. I feel like I didn't like going to them growing up and now I'm like, I like concerts.
Amy Wrenn:
I love concerts. So I started, there was a moment when my husband used to work for somebody that had a box at the arena downtown Orlando. So anybody who came through, we get to go see. And my daughter who's in her twenties, we saw Taylor Swift speak now. We saw the red concert. No way. Stop it. Yes. Yes. I took her to see Justin Bieber. Like, and we've been honestly, because I know you're a Taylor fan, not to bore anybody else, but like she's been getting, we've gotten every album as they've come out because my daughter grew up with, with Taylor. But yes, I love concerts too. My big love is Matchbox 20, like when I was in my twenties. And so now whenever like he comes around, I try to go and I fangirl over Rob.
Melanie Avalon:
What was their main their main song? I mean, I know like I'm getting hit with like I can see the name and I can I'm Getting hit with memories. I can't hear them
Amy Wrenn:
So in the Barbie movie where he sings I Want to Push You Around, that's Matchbox.
Melanie Avalon:
20. What was their main song though when they first came out because that's what I'm getting hit with.
Amy Wrenn:
The very first song was Push, but he did that song with Carlos Santana. What is it, Senorita? Oh, okay. Harla Mona Lisa or whatever, but that was just him. But that one was a big one on the radio. But it's like 90s.
Melanie Avalon:
So you're eating window. What approach do you do? I'm going to wrap this back into the concert. No, it's fine. What approach do you do? And yeah, what approach do you do?
Amy Wrenn:
So I typically stop eating by 8 p.m. and I don't, I typically start eating at one. And it's two meals a day. Now I break my fast technically because you messaged me on something, you probably don't know. But I take the perfect aminos. I really enjoyed your podcast with Dr. Minkoff and I read his book. So I take two servings of perfect aminos and I consider that breaking my fast. I typically do that around 12 or 12.30. And then I wait at least 30 minutes to an hour to let it absorb completely. And then I start eating and then two meals. So a lunch and a dinner.
Melanie Avalon:
Nice. When did you start taking the perfect aminos in your journey?
Amy Wrenn:
In 2021, I went to Dave Aspery's biohacking conference because you also took me down that rabbit hole and you have no idea, Melanie, you've really taken me down some rabbit holes and I love it. I'm enjoying the ride. So I met them. I did not meet Dr. Makoff, but I met the body health people there and I bought their multivitamins and listened to their talk and then shortly there and they gave me the book and then after reading his book, then I think you had asked like, hey, who's somebody who I can interview and I recommended him, some other people did too and shortly thereafter you interviewed him. I don't know if it's because of our recommendations or if it was already something scheduled, but listening to that, I was like, I need to take these because I was doing CrossFit and then also just perimenopause and it's really been fantastic. I love them. I do. I take 10 of those big horse pills every single day. I don't care. Just one at a time. I get them in. It's easier than trying to eat that much. I can't.
Melanie Avalon:
Wow. And for listeners, I'll put a link in the show notes to my interview with Dr. Minkoff. He wrote a book called The Perfect Protein. That's what it's called, right? I think.
Amy Wrenn:
I just want to look for it, but I loaned it to a friend, but I think it is called the perfect protein. It's the easy read. I read it in one day. It's not crazy long or anything.
Melanie Avalon:
because they actually pitched me for the show because, well, because of his brand and everything. And he had the book and I was like, is this going to just be like a cell for his protein? But then reading his book, it was really, really wonderful. Like, you really dive deep into the science of protein metabolism. So I had him on the show on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. That was a really great interview. And I was really, I really liked the science he had in support of this idea of taking basically, basically what it is, is it's like the complete amino acid in the most pure form. So then you take it, like you're taking it, you know, an empty stomach and you're just like assimilating that your protein. So then you're meeting the needs for what you might be lacking. And actually what was really telling for me, so I interviewed him, I don't think I mentioned, I might have mentioned this when I recorded the intro, but I interviewed him, we stopped recording.And I was like, so, you know, how much should I take? And this is after me telling him how much, how much insane amounts of protein I eat. And he was literally just like, you don't need it. Oh, wow. Yeah. He was like, you're fine. Don't take any. And I was like, okay, that's really telling, you know, like he's not, he's not just trying to sell something. So awesome.
Amy Wrenn:
So cool. I noticed big changes with it too. I like just my muscle strength, my hair. My hair is one of the, I have one of those people that my hair grows to a certain length and it just doesn't grow any longer and it grew about two inches longer. And so I've just been taking them religiously ever since. They can only be helping me and I don't get the insane amount of protein in that you do. I try to eat a good amount of protein and prioritize it with every meal, but not quite what you do.
Melanie Avalon:
No, I think that's a really, really smart approach, what you're doing. I'm glad that you mentioned about it breaking the fast because I think they do, I think it's them, I'm pretty sure they say, yeah, they say that it doesn't break the fast, which I really don't know how they can say that because it's literally protein, which is literally the most anti -fasting thing.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah. They do say, they will say that I'm on their Facebook group too. And people argue kind of back and forth on it. And I'm just like, you know what? And so whenever I offer some advice on there, I'm like, I just break my fast with it. Just break your fast with it, wait 30 minutes and then eat. It either is or it isn't just do it that way. And then you don't have to worry about it.
Melanie Avalon:
I agree.
Amy Wrenn:
but they really want people to take it, or I don't know, at least their followers, you gotta take it before you work out, you gotta take it before you work out. And I'm like, listen, I take it, I work out early in the morning and I break my fast with it several hours later. It's gonna get to where it needs to go. I'm not, you know, you don't have to do it before a workout.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes, I'm really glad that you're pointing that out. As you know and listeners know, that's like the ongoing debate. And I mean, realistically though, at least in my opinion, as long as you're not like a bodybuilder competition where, you know, this is everything, it seems like most people are fine working out and then having their protein later, just realistically, like that's what I see. And for men too, I've heard it as well. So it's nice that that's really working for you.
Amy Wrenn:
It is and I've thought about changing it like I did. I listened to, I think I messaged you about that one guest on Huberman and she almost had me second guessing myself and then I was like, you know what? I'm not going to change anything. This is working for me. I feel great. I look great. Like I'm, I'm, this is working. I'm just going to keep doing this. If it gets to a point where it's not working for me anymore, then we'll, we'll take a, we'll, we'll look at tuning things. you
Melanie Avalon:
I think that happens to a lot of people because there's so many opinions out there and they can be very convincing opinions. And it's interesting that, like you said, we'll know what works for us. It'll be working so well and then we'll still feel the need to change. The example I use is not really to Dieter Fitness, but I remember one time I was obsessed with this product that I had ordered on Amazon. I don't remember at all what it was. Like I literally don't remember. But I remember I went in to reorder it and I loved this product. And then I was reading the reviews and like reading some negative reviews. And I was like, oh, maybe I don't like this product after all. And I was like, wait a minute. Like literally I've used it. So I think we do that with diet and nutrition. And so I'm totally down for people experimenting, but also like know what works for you.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah. I'm like, I don't need to eat a banana before I work out. Amy, you already know this. You don't need, like you don't need this, but don't do it.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, so true. And what type of workouts do you do?
Amy Wrenn:
So I was doing, it's not, it's more functional fitness. It wasn't the brand CrossFit, but pretty intense workouts. And then unfortunately my gym closed down and because it was a small business and it really broke my heart, maybe more than it should have, but you know, they were my family. And so now I did try some CrossFit stuff and I unfortunately ended up getting injured. And I was like, listen, listen girl, you are 47 years old. You do not have to compete with 20 year olds. Let's just find something that keeps you strong, keeps muscle on your body, keeps your bones strong, that has times of days that work well for you. So I have been going to a 45. It's actually been working great for me. I've been doing the end body since 2018. So I have a pretty good idea. Like I have a well -established baseline on there. And I have the most muscle I've ever had.And trying to get muscle on me is a struggle. It's a struggle bus. Just like, you know, it's like running uphill, especially as you get older. But I have the most muscle that I've had since 2018. So I'm like, you know what, it's working. I'm just going to keep doing it.
Melanie Avalon:
That's incredible. For the injury, did you try any of the biohacking things to help with recovery? Yes.
Amy Wrenn:
So, I'm going to tell you about a different injury real quick. One Christmas, I think it was 2019, I was maybe had a couple glasses of wine and was doing Just Dance with my children and danced right into the coffee table and I had a spiral fracture to my big toe. I do not recommend Zero Stars. Don't do it to your big toe, it's terrible.
Melanie Avalon:
Was it was a like blood everywhere type situation?
Amy Wrenn:
There wasn't, it was inside my toe. So it was very swollen, black and blue. They said I just by like a hair mist having to have surgery. I went and I got the boot. Well, I had a, like the mini Juve because of, you know, you. And at the time, I was like, my husband's gonna die at how expensive these things are. So I'll buy the smallest one, which was still like $300. I told him it was like $50, but at any rate, I was doing the red light on my toe twice a day, 15 minutes twice a day. And he was kind of making fun of me with my silly red light. And I went in at four weeks for them to do an X -ray and kind of a checkup and the doctor, he was like, he came in the room and he was like, what are you doing? And I said, what? And he's like, I have never seen bone grow this fast. What are you doing? And I was like, seriously? I was like, it's my Juve, it's my red light. I've been putting it on every night. So that is my big win for that.
Melanie Avalon:
And that's while you're fasting, right, as well? Yes. So it's nice to know that we can be building bone while fasting. I'll give listeners a link. Do you still use your juve?
Amy Wrenn:
I do, but I need to get another one because I've used it so much and I've lent it out so much to anybody, my friends who've had surgery, they, I have them use it. You know, the, it only, when you charge it, it only lasts like a minute.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, so you have to go, the one that you hold in your hand?
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, it's the teeny tiny guy, but it really was so wonderful. I need to get a better one. Somebody gave me a gift, a Truelight. Have you heard of that brand?
Melanie Avalon:
That's not related to true dark like Dave's company, is it?
Amy Wrenn:
I think it is because I saw them at that biohacking conference. So I have one of theirs too and I used it. I just don't know if it's as good as a Juve because I haven't heard you talk about it.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that's so funny. I'm trying to see if it's, I'm going to see if it's spelled the same as, okay. Oh, true dark. Yeah, so it might be, that might be Dave's company.
Amy Wrenn:
I think they were, they were there at his thing. Juve was not there, but True Light was there.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh wait, True Light by Dave Asprey, yes.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, okay. So I have his thing and I use that right now because it plugs into the wall. It's bigger. It's got the red near infrared and then it also has a yellow light. I don't use that one as much because I'm not as well versed on the yellow light. I do know I would not use that portion at nighttime. It just intuitively feels like there should be a morning thing if you're going to use that.
Melanie Avalon:
This is interesting. They have like a really skinny one.
Amy Wrenn:
This one's pretty big. This one's like four times the size of my like mini, mini Juve.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, I will put a link in the show notes for Juve at the very least. So if you go to melanieavalon.com/joovv, which is J O O V V, you can get $50 off, I believe with the code Melanie Avalon. And I have mine actually literally it's right here. I have the, I have the mini. So you said many earlier. So you have the go.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, the teeny tiny one.
Melanie Avalon:
They have a one called the mini, or what used to be called the mini. I don't know if it's still called the mini, but you, um, that one, you can like stand on your desk and that's the one I have that I, I love it. Cause you can put it on your desk and like, I have it on just during the day when I'm at the computer, I mean, on me, I just feel so good. It's, it's crazy though. I haven't had the sort of energy injury you mentioned, but I did at one point have a pretty bad, I don't know if it was a sprain or what it was, but if I would shine the light on, like when the light was shining on it, the pain would just go away, which is crazy. And then the light would go off and the pain would come back. I was like, this is, this is weird. We're just going to keep this light on. Yeah, basically. And it was when I was traveling actually.And I had that, that go and I kept having to like recharge it. So that's amazing. Okay. Oh, I love that. So going back to the fasting window. So I think we've got a good picture of what you're doing. Actually one more question. So you said you eat two meals in that window. What, what do those look like? Are they protein focused? Or you were mentioned earlier how, you know, you, you like the freedom of eating what you love. So how have your eating choices evolved?
Amy Wrenn:
So I am, I'm pretty much a creature of habit, maybe not as much as you, but I for lunch either have a salad and it always has protein in it. And it's not because like, oh, I want to be good. I want to eat a salad. I just love salad. And I really love like the chicken is warm and then the salad's cold. I don't know.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, I know what you're talking about. I'm getting flashbacks. I went through a salad phase. Yeah, it's very satisfying.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, I just love that. I love like that hot and cold at the same time. I will also do a, or I'll do just do a sandwich. Like I'm just, you know, a roast beef sandwich, a chicken sandwich, turkey sandwich, ham sandwich, but I have the same thing. I will warm it up like the one size. And I put cheese on it so that the cheese is melty than the other side with like cold pickles and whatever. I just like that hot and cold thing, but I'm pretty much either having one I'm having one or the other for lunch. Like there's just not a whole lot of fluctuation and one of the two. And then for dinner, I'm either having a salad with protein or I'm having just like chicken and vegetables or potato. I really love potatoes.Like I just don't wanna live in a world where I can't have potatoes and that seven months doing keto was no fun for me. And if it's like a date night, we get steak, I'm not a pasta girly. Like I don't, I could go the rest of my life without eating pasta, but I could not go the rest of my life without potato. But chicken and steak are my favorite proteins. When we went last year, my husband and I went to Italy, it was my first time abroad and it was very exciting, but thank God there's just so much pasta. So when in Rome, you eat pasta, but I was getting scallops a lot because I know those have a lot of protein in them.
Melanie Avalon:
I love that you have this like hot cold fixation when you go to the restaurants are you like what is the hot cold combination on the menu.
Amy Wrenn:
No, I already know. When I look, I could look at a video and be like, oh, that's going to be good with the hot and the cold at the same time.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that's so I love it. I love it. I also love that you I I like meeting fellow people who know what they like to eat and it's a relatively not I don't wanna say limited but like you know, it's it sounds like it's pretty similar what you eat all all the time all the time and that's the way I am and I I just love it like people think it's boring and I think it's the best like I love what I eat.
Amy Wrenn:
I know what I like, you know, I'm like, and I don't like some people are very adventurous and they'll, they'll try something new for dinner. And I'm like, but what if, what if you don't like it and now you've just ruined your dinner and your time out. I just, I know what I like and that's what I want to eat.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, that's that's the way I am like a genuinely it's like I think some people because a lot of people and again I'm all down everybody do you Some people really need variety and like they want to eat different things all the time And I don't think they can grasp that I genuinely love eating Essentially the same thing all the time, but I do I'm the same way and it tastes so good to me. Okay, that's awesome do you find that You sounds like you always like we just talked about you're always eating the protein like if you were to Not eat the protein. Would you be really hungry?
Amy Wrenn:
I very rarely don't eat the protein because I work out a lot and I'm very aware of just being perimenopausal, so I don't do it. If I have a day where maybe I'm sick or I'm not very active, I might have a day where I push my fast out longer and it might be a lower protein day, 98% of the time I'm getting the protein in.
Melanie Avalon:
And what about, you mentioned earlier, just dancing with some wine. Do you have wine in your eating window?
Amy Wrenn:
I do. I typically keep that for the weekends, maybe one night. So what I've noticed as I have pushed past, I don't know, I'm going to say 44, I'm not metabolizing alcohol like I used to. It's very, very obvious for me. And so I've really kind of limited it to maybe one night a week, maybe two glasses of wine. And I love red wine. Red wine is my favorite. But recently, this is very exciting. I started NAD injections probably about six weeks ago, and just sub -q injections with the NAD. And initially, I wasn't like, oh, I'm not really noticing much energy. But I'll tell you what I have noticed, is I am metabolizing alcohol, I would say, like 90% better than I was before. Where before, I would just be so exhausted. I mean, I could just feel it. I could feel it in my brain. I could feel it in my body, my eyeballs. And now I'm like, I don't even feel like I had a drink last night. So it's not an excuse to drink more. I'm just when I do have my alcohol, I'm processing it better. So I'm just excited about that.
Melanie Avalon:
NAD for listeners. It's basically your body's master metabolic enzyme. It's involved in everything you do that requires energy. And so there's theories. I say theories because it's very heavily debated, but the idea is that supporting your NAD levels are great for combating stress, for drinking, for anti -aging, all the things for health. And there's a lot of different ways that you can get it in. So you can get it in. People will do IVs. I have not done an IV. Have you done an IV?
Amy Wrenn:
I have not, just doing this sub -Q right now at home.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, at home. Oh, because you're a nurse practitioner. Is that how you can do it yourself?
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, I mean, people can, I've prescribed it for patients to take it home, but there is a protocol where you can do every third day, you can take and you start just like with an IV, where you start and you low and you titrate up with it.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh wow, that's awesome. So do you feel, how do you feel when you actually, because when I was doing the, I did the inner muscular injections for a while and immediately after doing it, I would feel like not very, not good. Like tight chested and oh, yeah.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, so the first couple, the first week I did like, and I don't remember like milligrams per unit, sorry, but I did 10 units like every third day. And I was like, this is nothing. And then I did the 20 units, this is nothing. And then I got to 30 and I was like, oh my God, I'm having a heart attack. And I really oddly feel it in my legs and my chest and it lasts for about 10 minutes. And it's a very weird feeling, but I checked like my heart rate was normal, but it does feel weird. And it's the same thing with an IV. If you give it somebody in an IV and you give them too much too fast, they will have that feeling too. You got to go really slow and people have to titrate up on it. But now I'm on like, I don't know, maybe week six, seven, eight, somewhere in there. So my body's getting more used to it.
Melanie Avalon:
You described it perfectly, the feeling. It's like a very indescribable feeling, but it just feels not right. Like somebody feels like not right in your body.
Amy Wrenn:
to have a medical emergency, what's happening? Yes.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, what I've been, have you seen me been talking about ion layer patches?
Amy Wrenn:
Yes, I did. I looked into it, but because I can get things it costs.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it is a little bit, I'm hoping it'll continue to come down and my code does give you $100 off, but basically they're NAD patches. And what I love about them is, I mean, you're doing the injections at home, which is more, what's the word accessible, but for people who are going into a clinic to get injections, this you can just do at home, it lasts up to 14 hours. It's basically like a slow drip, like an IV, except you don't feel, you don't feel any negative side effects, you just feel really energized. And I find it perfect for when I'm going out and drinking or the next day after drinking, it's just a game changer.
Amy Wrenn:
It really is a game changer. I had no idea. I did not go into this when I started it. I was like, I just want to experience it. I've never done NAD outside of maybe Quicksilver several years ago. And I was probably in it and actually not even NAD. But, and so I wasn't anticipating the change. And then it took me, I was like, wait a minute. I haven't, I haven't felt hungover. I haven't felt terrible. And I'm like, oh my God, it's the NAD. But I do want to try, is it Ion? Is that what it's called? Yeah, so it's Ion layer. I do want to try it. And I'll probably in the first of the year, try it just to see what it's like, just to experiment because I kind of like to experiment with stuff like that.
Melanie Avalon:
I'll be, you have to let me know what you like, especially comparing it to the injections. Cause like I said, I did the injections for probably a long time, maybe a year. And then I found the patches and I was like, Oh, I'm never going back. So for listeners, they can go to melanieavalon.com/ionlayer. So I O N L A Y E R and the code Melanie Avalon will get you a hundred dollars off your first order. So I love them. You just like mix up the NAD yourself and put it on the patch and off to the races. Well, awesome. Okay. I do. I love the biohacking tangents. This is great. No, it's so amazing. Question. Have you been back to Dave's conference since 20 to 2021?
Amy Wrenn:
I was able to go to that one because it was it was in Orlando because California was shut down at the time But I would love to go again
Melanie Avalon:
Sorry, you said you did or did not go to Orlando.
Amy Wrenn:
He came to Orlando in 2021. Oh, wait, 2021's Orlando? Yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. You weren't there. But he came back. He came back to Orlando. Did he? Yeah. Yeah. That's why that's why I'm confused. I didn't know he came back. The first one I went to was in Orlando and it was not this past one. So not it was 2023. Okay. Well, the
Amy Wrenn:
a bummer. I didn't know. We just missed each other next time. You know what? My mom died last year around this time. I'm sorry. I think I was out of commission with all that and that's probably why I didn't even know. My brain was offline for a minute there.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Amy Wrenn:
I appreciate.
Melanie Avalon:
that really sad. Okay, the question I had about okay, but I'm bringing it back to the concert and the social stuff and everything. So you're eating windows one to eight. First of all, how strict are you on that?
Amy Wrenn:
So in the beginning, when I was losing weight, and by beginning, I mean first two years, I was very strict, very, very strict. I did eventually for, I don't know how many months I got the app, I forgot what it's called. It was like four letters, I don't remember, but so I could clock in and clock out of my window and that helped me be mindful. And I also, at that time, I would occasionally have like a glass of wine during the week and I was like, how am I gonna break this? And so I think it was maybe Jen's suggestion. I get San Pellegrino and I put it in my wine glass. And that was just like, my brain felt like I was drinking wine and eventually I didn't need to do that like hand to mouth motion anymore. That's just a fun tip for anybody who's first starting out with it, who maybe needs to break that glass of wine at nighttime kind of deal. Once I got to my weight that I'm at now, I will make exceptions.So like if it's a weekend and there's a special event and we're out to dinner and it's, you know, I'm not gonna stop at eight o 'clock. I'm going to continue with the night and do my thing. I might push back the next day when I break my fast, but I might not, I'm more flexible with it now. But my body's super, super primed and used to this.
Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. So, so if you're going to a concert type situation, you would eat before. Yes. Yeah. And then, and then go. Yeah. Have you experimented with any longer fasts?
Amy Wrenn:
you know, not on purpose, but yes, I have done some 24 hour fast, which were, like I said, not planned, but just kind of one of those things where like, you know, if there's a, I've had some family emergencies or I've had to take somebody to the hospital and the next thing you know, it's 9pm at night and you're like, Oh, I didn't eat today. So, but not, not on purpose. If maybe I did have like a weekend where it was a little bit heavier eating or heavier drinking the next day, I might do like an 18 or 19 hour. It just depends. But most of the time I really stick to the, I stop around eight or earlier potentially, and then don't really eat anything until one.
Melanie Avalon:
I love that you found what, you know, what really works for you. It's so great. It does work for me. It's great. Speaking up hospital. So going back to you being a nurse practitioner. So how long have you been practicing that?
Amy Wrenn:
I was a nurse for 15 years doing emergency obstetrics and labor delivery, and then I went back to school and became a nurse practitioner. I became a nurse practitioner back in 2020, and I have my family nurse practitioner certification, but I work in more of an integrative space. I specialize in bioidentical hormone therapy, and I also do weight loss. I've been working with GLP1s for the last four years. I work with peptides.
Melanie Avalon:
as well. Okay. So what do you think about the whole GLP1 world?
Amy Wrenn:
I love the GLP ones. I really do. For patients who have, they come in and they're like, these are all the things I've tried. Nothing's working. And I get it because, and you know, that two year window, nothing was working for me until I found fasting. And a lot of people will say that they tried fasting, but they didn't stick it out past the two weeks. I'm very fortunate that I had your podcast because it's really what helped kept pushing me through. And so for a lot of these people, when we start them on the GLP one, and I do a pretty comprehensive labs with them as well. So I'm looking at fasting insulin. I'm looking at inflammation markers, hemoglobin A1C, thyroid hormones, just a whole bunch of stuff. And a lot of these people, cholesterol, they come in and they're pretty sick. Like your average person on paper, on their blood work does not look good. And I start them on these GLP ones and I start, you know, you titrate with it, you start slow.And within several weeks, it's almost like a shot of fasting, if that makes sense. In the beginning, they will have some side effects, but they'll be really, really tired because their bodies aren't metabolically flexible. And so, and they'll get headaches too, just like I did in the beginning of fasting. But once their body starts to become more metabolically flexible and starts using this fat for fuel, then they start having extra energy. And they're not, they don't have that food noise. They have that appetite correction. So I see a lot of parallels to fasting with it. And then when we do some follow -up blood work, their cholesterol is better, their inflammation is better. They're just across the board. The things that made them unhealthy before, they are just so much healthier. And they just, you kind of just see like life come back in their eyes as well. And then what I do, so now some people need to be on them long -term, certainly.Some people don't need to be on them long -term. They just needed something to kind of like that restart button, the, have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in? That's kind of what this medication does. And once they get to the weight loss and on average, I would say two pounds per week on average, some weeks that might look like one pound, other weeks that might look like three pounds. But when they get to where they want to go and they want to come off, I taper them off and I transition them into fasting because they're already kind of doing it. And they've spent these months building up this routine, kind of sort of like pressing the easy button because they weren't hungry. So they've built this schedule. They've built this routine. And so as we taper off, I would get them to do fasting, whichever windows would work well for them and just let them know if you go back to eating how you did prior to this medication, you're gonna end up with the body you had prior.But if we implement these changes and you stick to it, then you'll be able to maintain this. And I, my patients were very, very successful. And of course I just push the, you have to prioritize protein and you have to move, you have to exercise. And if that exercising is, you know, just putting on some ankle weights and going on a walk, you know, you have to do something. You can't just sit back because you want to lose fat. You don't want to lose muscle. And I did, because I had an in -body, I could really kind of take a good look at are they maintaining their muscle? Are they losing their fat? So I had some metrics to go by, but overall I'm a fan. It's not for everybody. It's not, but it is for a lot of people. And they have more and more studies coming out saying, you know, not only does it help with your blood sugar, but it's reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease. And now they're saying that it's reducing the risk of Alzheimer's and dementia. And so it's just exciting.
Melanie Avalon:
I love hearing this in particular because I think a lot of people are and I'll put a link in the show notes, you mentioned earlier that you used a fasting app. I don't know if it was the zero app or not. Yes, that was it. I interviewed recently Dr. Naomi, who is now she's one of the head people at zero. She's a doctor and she has like a weight loss. I think she works at a weight loss clinic. But we dived really deep into the science of GLP ones, you know, there's all this concern about muscle loss, which I think is so important and is happening to a lot of people. And I also wonder at the same time if people were to approach them and use them in a smart way and focus on protein and focus on maintaining muscle and staying active. Like you were saying, I just feel like, you know, that's a different case.
Amy Wrenn:
It is. And I've seen it. I've seen it 100 times. You can be on those and build muscle. You just have to put in the work, and you have to eat the protein.
Melanie Avalon:
And I've also wondered, and you literally said it, I've wondered maybe if people can be on them and then go off and transition into a fasting approach with a high protein diet, maybe that's the way to as much as possible sustain the results.
Amy Wrenn:
I did it with all my patients and the patients who adhered to that plan had lasting results. And even sometimes would come back and be even less body fat percentage than they were going like when they stopped the medication. Yeah, really incredible results.
Melanie Avalon:
results. Wow. Do you see people in Orlando or do you do online?
Amy Wrenn:
I'm actually not seeing patients right at the moment. I was in the clinic that I was at, they sold it, and I didn't agree with maybe the direction of the new owners because I'm very passionate and I have, I mean, nurse practitioners are nurses first and we just, we've put our patients first and I'm always going to put what I feel like is best for my patients first. So I am actually right now in a really cool position where I'm with a friend of mine and we've created or they've created, brought me on to help create this company that's called Advanced Practitioners Network and I'm doing clinical education for it. So I'm helping teach other doctors, other nurse practitioners about bioidentical hormone therapy, also peptides and GLP ones. So I feel like I have a broader reach now because we work with different clinics in almost all the different states and doing education and teaching them how to do these things appropriately.So it's been very, very rewarding for me, which is how when I won the key on and I told you I got to do that lecture on fasting that day, I was very excited about it.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, yes, yes, that's how we yeah, isn't I think that's when I was like, Oh, you should come on the show. Yes, yes. Yes. Can you tell listeners briefly what lecture you did?
Amy Wrenn:
I did a lecture on fasting. Gosh, it was on just regular fasting, intermittent fasting, went a little bit into the fasting mimicking diet. It was for a bunch of doctors and practitioners, so it got a little sciency with the mTOR pathways and all that. It was kind of hard for me because I actually didn't create the presentation. It was created by one of my mentors, Dr. Louis Martinez, and he gave it to me and was like, hey, will you do this presentation? I was like, yes. Even though I know a lot about fasting and learning, somebody else's presentation is kind of hard. He had specific studies and specific diagrams, but it was very exciting for me. It was the first time I had been a speaker at a conference, so that was exciting too.
Melanie Avalon:
Cool, and congrats on that. Yeah, that's amazing. And thank you for doing that, talking about fasting and everything. It's really, really motivating and inspiring to hear people like you doing what you're doing. Because honestly, that's the way to really reach people in a very, very practical way. So it's so nice that you're doing that, and especially the education piece. Oh my goodness.
Amy Wrenn:
I'm loving it. We're actually writing a book right now too. I never thought... There's all these things that I'm doing that I never thought I'd be doing and it's very exciting. But yeah, we are... Dr. Martinez and I are writing a book on biogenical hormone therapy.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, cool. Well, when you finish it, you guys should come back on the show.
Amy Wrenn:
Oh, fun, yes!
Melanie Avalon:
I would love that. Awesome. Well, is there anything else about your fasting journey that you would like to share with listeners? Any advice or tips or tricks or takeaways?
Amy Wrenn:
Because I think the biggest thing in the beginning is you just have to give it time and know that things are happening on the inside. And like I said, I had more than just weight loss. I obviously, at that time, I had a lot of inflammation that I didn't know about and that was presenting itself as in joint pain, acne rosacea on my face, and then also the weight gain. And so with time and with just trusting the process, I was able to reverse that inflammation. My skin got better, my joints got better, and then I had improved energy. And then, you know, aesthetically, I was able to lose the weight and get back into my clothes and then eventually need smaller clothes. So I think just giving it the time and using the things that are available to you, such as that Xero app, I just kind of liked clocking in and clocking out of my eating window and things like the San Pellegrino and a wine glass to make you feel like you're having your drink.Those kind of tools really helped me along. And then, I'm not really sure who said it. And I don't know where I picked it up, but somebody along the way, you know, said about increasing your steps. And I use that with my patients a lot because there are some people who are like, absolutely no, don't tell me to exercise. But almost everybody's phone, people have their phones on them if they don't have any kind of tracking device. If you look at it and you're getting 4,000 steps a day, try to get 5,000, just any little thing that you can do. And you kind of do that too with your iron pans that you work with. And I know you do the ankle weights and they make a difference, I swear. I believe you. I believe you. So just making those little changes, habits, and then it just becomes part of your routine. And then you can just kind of keep tweaking those things. You don't have to bite off big giant things. Just take these baby steps until they're part of your routine and then you can take another baby step.And next thing you know, you've gone a long way. What is that saying? Like, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? Something like that. It's the same kind of thing. So and then and then also the other thing, just know when you first start and you break your fast and you eat every single thing in your kitchen, that is temporary. It's going to get better. You'll have appetite correction. It will blow your mind.
Melanie Avalon:
your mind. That was so amazing and so helpful. I love that. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of magic to just adjusting the little things that you do every day in little ways. It doesn't have to be this big, huge, concentrated, you know, starting this crazy gym practice and going, I mean, do that if you want, but there's like, you can make so much progress with all these little changes.
Amy Wrenn:
Yeah, do things that are sustainable.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, exactly.
Amy Wrenn:
Oh my goodness. Well, this was so fun. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Melanie Avalon:
so much. And we'll put pictures in the show notes, but you look amazing. You're glowing. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing everything and everything that you're doing and being here with us on the show. Hopefully we get to meet in real life sometime.
Amy Wrenn:
really hope so. I really do. I think it's going to happen. Like I said, I feel like I've been manifesting this for several years now.
Melanie Avalon:
I am going to by the time this airs, it will have happened, but it's kind of closer to you. I'm going to eudaimonia. Have you heard of that conference? No, where's that? It's in West Palm Beach and like everybody is there. I'm gonna meet Cynthia Thurlow in person. We've never met.
Amy Wrenn:
I'm so excited. Okay, what month is it in?
Melanie Avalon:
November 1st through 3rd, Dave speaking, Huberman is speaking.
Amy Wrenn:
Oh no, I think I did see that. I love her. Thank you for turning me on to her. I'm obsessed.
Melanie Avalon:
I love her too. Like literally so many guests I've had on my show are going to be speakers. So you should go.
Amy Wrenn:
I need to get my son is at school over there at in Boca Raton at FAU, so I should make it a weekend.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, you should. If you do, totally let me know because I will be there. I will. I'm going to go the first two days. And again, when this airs, it'll be in the past. But so hopefully we got to meet. That'll be exciting. But thank you so much, Amy. This was absolutely amazing. Congrats on everything you've accomplished and are doing. And yeah, just keep on keep on keeping on. This was awesome. This was. Thank you so much. Awesome. You too. I will talk to you in the future. OK, talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.
Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
LINKS
BUY:
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Vanessa's Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight
The Tone Device Breath Ketone Analyzer
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com
Original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
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