Welcome to Episode 406 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
SHOW NOTES
SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS
PIQUE FASTING TEAS: Need the perfect drink for your fast? Fasting just got way easier with Pique tea! Created with Dr. Jason Fung, Pique's organic, toxin-free fasting teas curb your appetite, boost your metabolism, and keep you going strong. Get up to 20% off plus a free beaker at piquelife.com/ifpodcast.
LINKS:
Melanie's Podcast: The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
Barry's Podcast: Banter with BC
More on Barry: barryconradofficial.com
Featured Restaurant: Barmilano
Episode 388 with Dr. Naomi Parrella
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!
Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 406 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo style meals, intermittent fasting and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer, songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine. If it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 406 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with my co-host Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
I'm doing really good actually i'm in beautiful melbourne australia for people who don't know australia melbourne's, really i said it's got lots of vibe good restaurants bars you love it but i'm doing really good it's a sunny day with a bit of a chill in the air which melanie would appreciate.
Melanie Avalon
we were talking earlier, I really should just live like half of the year in the US and half of the year in Australia.
Barry Conrad
I don't know how you go with the flying situation though, because it's like you'll be there for more than a day. You know that, right?
Melanie Avalon
I know, but like if I can set up my whole living situation, then it's okay. It's like the living out of hotels part that is not the best for me. But if I like lived there, yeah.
Barry Conrad
I'm in an apartment at the moment for a job but then straight after this i go to a hotel so i'm trying to copy and paste that to how you would handle that you in apartment for like three days and then change the hotel for like four days like you be like what was almost.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's see that's rough. Oh and don't downplay it. You're there for an awesome play that you're gonna be in
Barry Conrad
I'm so excited. It's called Destiny, and it comes out. Well, we start doing it next year, but we've started preparing here in Melbourne. So, I'm stoked. If you ever come to Australia, come and check it out, guys. Anyway, how are you? How are you doing?
Melanie Avalon
role in the play.
Barry Conrad
I have played the male lead called his name's as returns and he's like an activist he's so much fun he's a young guy who comes back into the picture of a formal love and checks up world it's a story about loyalty family and it's set in the apartment in south africa so really intense and dramatic but also very funny and really harkens from my background i'm so that we can too so it's even more meaningful to be part of.
Melanie Avalon
Sounds so amazing. Have you met your, I guess obviously you've met your fellow cast members. Are you getting along with them?
Barry Conrad
It's kind of a blind date. I don't know. You'd probably know this as well, Melanie, as like, you know, when you meet people for the first time, it could kind of have a vibe or no vibe. But all of us are heading it off. So it's really good. Any intermittent fasteners?
Melanie Avalon
You got to start pulling everybody you meet now that you're the co-host. I'm like, not really, but you don't have to do that.
Barry Conrad
That's really, that made me laugh. Not that I know of yet because everyone ate during lunch break yesterday. So maybe that was their window. I don't know.
Melanie Avalon
Did you eat during the lunch break?
Barry Conrad
I timed my windows so that I could have a meal with everyone for the first day just to be a team, you know, like be a team player, so I did time it so that I could have something.
Melanie Avalon
So you're like, you're going to ease them in to you, like, to your lifestyle habits. Situation, yeah, exactly. That's like what I do. It's like if I'm meeting somebody new, I might, well, I guess I do tell them about my intermittent fasting, but I like try to set up the first things where it's not a situation where I'm just like not eating at the thing they're eating at. I like have my system down, my easing people in system.
Barry Conrad
So give me an example. If I was like a newbie, you were meeting me for the first time like a work colleague or whatever, and you knew this was coming up like in two days, what would you do?
Melanie Avalon
And I knew that I was like meeting people and like meeting you in two days.
Barry Conrad
And we will be like at a restaurant all kind of getting together here.
Melanie Avalon
Right. Yeah. So I would move gently the meeting towards drinks or drinks. I don't really do daytime meetings with people in real life. I do a lot of virtual meetings, but yeah. Or I move it towards when you can get drinks or eat type situation thing where you do what you want. So not like a dinner dinner. That works too. Yeah.
Barry Conrad
This, this, I can't, you know, listeners, I can't wait to have a meal with Melanie in person because it's just going to be entertaining. I can't wait just to see, you know, I'm not going to say anymore.
Melanie Avalon
It's gonna be so fun, I'm so excited. Which speaking of, you have a restaurant for us today?
Barry Conrad
I do have a worship, but I still haven't asked you how you're doing. How are you doing?
Melanie Avalon
I am doing, thank you. You're so kind. I'm doing really well. So this airs, this episode airs like end of January. So things I talk about right now will be in the past. But regardless, I am about to go this week to host on the red carpet for the biohack yourself premiere, which listeners may have, may be familiar with, but it has, has so many people in it. So many guests I've had on my show, like Dave Asprey and Aggie, and there's like a whole laundry list of people and then even RFK is in it. So I'm excited. I'm going to be traveling to Vegas. I already told you this, but I'm going to go for one day, host the carpet and go back. So that'll be fun. There's a few people there that I've been dying to meet in real life that I haven't met. So Ben Greenfield is going to be there. I have yet to meet Ben Azati in real life and I adore him. So yeah, there's like a quite a few people I'm excited to actually meet in person. It's always, it's always really exciting to meet people. I mean, you and I have not met in person. It's always so excited, like meet somebody finally in person that you know, virtually, you know.
Barry Conrad
Yeah i agree i think as well melt it's amazing what that opportunity that's gonna be good i think you're perfect for so i can't wait to see all the clips in the footage and make sure you post so we can keep up.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, thank you. I will. I'll be doing all the stories. Have you been to Vegas before? I'm sure you have.
Barry Conrad
I've been to vegas but not really be on the airport that much so i don't really have i don't know enough to have like a proper opinion about it but it seems like a pretty pretty fun city have you.
Melanie Avalon
I'm just reflecting on how that was such a wonderful perspective of the world to say you don't know enough to have a proper opinion. If everybody could realize that about so many things, I feel like we would be a better society.
Barry Conrad
It's like you talk to someone it's like what do you think of i hate america so when did you go well i haven't been but i just i just don't like it.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. It's like, okay. So in college, my roommate actually was from Vegas. And that was a moment I was like, Oh, you can actually like be from Vegas. You know, you don't really think of people like living there. I actually only went it's very close to LA, but I only went once, I think. And it was for a convention. So it was not I like didn't do the Vegas thing, you know, and I'm not doing it now either. I don't know. Am I? I'm going to be at like the Venetian hotel, which is nice. There won't be time to like gamble or anything. Do you gamble?
Barry Conrad
I mean, I have on a TV show that I was on, but I don't really do it in real life, but I have to learn for that reason. But I think, I mean, what about after the situation? When you're done with your work, you've done the whole situation, you've met everyone, done the hosting. What about going out that night and just going out on the town with some of the peeps? Well, but...
Melanie Avalon
agenda, it goes until really, really late. It's like a, it's like an all night thing. Like they start the screening and it's not a full screening. It's just like trailers because I think it's like a whole docu-series, but I think that starts at like 10. I don't know. I think it's going to be over, that part will probably be over at like 1am. So I don't think I'm going to, yeah. We'll see. We'll see where the night goes.
Barry Conrad
It's just you getting started though, like you wake up at like what so late anyway, right?
Melanie Avalon
This is true. Although the time difference and with me not getting there any earlier, it's a three-hour time difference. So 1 a.m. there is like 4 a.m. here. It's gonna be fun. You should come. Do you want to come?
Barry Conrad
I'd love to come, but yeah, I'd probably be trying to pull you into the festivities afterwards like let's go out. Let's check out the city Blackberry. I can't. I'm too tired.
Melanie Avalon
I wouldn't it's not that I'm tired. It's that I have to like go to bed. Those are two different things. Yeah, next time next time
Barry Conrad
And you can try the food while you're there, and speaking of food, we have a restaurant.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, so a little tradition, tradition, I guess so. Something that Barry and I are starting where every episode we're gonna profile just quickly a restaurant and we're gonna tell you guys what we would personally order during our eating window from the menu. What restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
So today, I've got a restaurant called Bar Milano on Maroubra Beach in beautiful Sydney. It happens to be the resident venue where I film Bent with BC, but there's not an ad. This is only because I love it so much. It was founded by Patrick, Georgette, and the team. It's a fusion of the best Northern Italian food you can think of with Australia's coastline. So it's this really awesome concoction of flavor culture heritage. So I think you'd love it, Mel. You wouldn't want to leave. You'd be dining and whining and dining and whining for hours, I reckon.
Melanie Avalon
I did not realize that this was the restaurant where you filmed that show. Awesome. That's amazing.
Barry Conrad
And you've seen stuff before, so you know it looks good.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I'm looking at the okay, so it's a it's an a la carte menu it says
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so you go. So basically, you can see see there's some starters. Okay, we got to talk about this. So starters, main dish, and dessert. Is that what we said?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, we had to come up with the terminology. Yes. So what would you get for the starter?
Barry Conrad
love calamari so i would definitely get calamari with the rocket and the aioli there i love i love the arancini arancini balls they're so good i'll get that and burrata which you know like the cheese yeah that's me
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I would probably get the cold cuts and cheese, but only eat the cold cuts. Oh, and the prawns. That's shrimp, right? Prawns are shrimp or no?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, they're really good, really good.
Melanie Avalon
Is it different than shrimp? No. It's the same thing. Yes, and that. Yeah, prawns and cold cuts. I'm going to be really predictable by the time we've done this a few times. I couldn't order the same thing everywhere.
Barry Conrad
people, listeners will be like, I know Melanie and Zoda, like give me any restaurant, I could just choose.
Melanie Avalon
Pretty much. How about for your main meal?
Barry Conrad
The main dish situation, this was a really hard choice, but I'm gonna have to go with the pappardelle, the pasta, because I love that beef ragu, that's my jam. It's gotta be me.
Melanie Avalon
Pasta is one of my favorite things that I don't eat.
Barry Conrad
That's the sound butt of this episode, the intro.
Melanie Avalon
Like, on my deathbed, I am just eating fettuccine alfredo, like, on repeat. Oh, so good. And so I would get the pork cutlet.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For sure. What about – would you have anything with that, like a side or anything? Like, would you just have that?
Melanie Avalon
if they have like, I don't, I'm seeing, I'm trying to see, oh, here's a little fun fact for listeners. It's not too annoying for the kitchen, but you can usually get sides that are not listed if you see them somewhere else with something else. So like right now I'm looking to see if they have spinach on anything because I would see if they had like steam spinach, but I don't see that anywhere. Yeah. Typically, I just see if they have like steam spinach.
Barry Conrad
Sell it? Like, cost letters and soft herbs?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I really like the meat a lot.
Barry Conrad
That's your thing.
Melanie Avalon
And then for dessert, what would you get?
Barry Conrad
You know I like to get two of things too.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, like I sometimes I usually get two entrees, but not this time.
Barry Conrad
Do you really? I have to go with the tiramisu and the gelato and the crosstata, diperia, poached pear, tart, and mascarpone. So those three, I have to do it. It just all looks too good doing it. I support it.
Melanie Avalon
I probably get more prawns.
Barry Conrad
But like, would you guys like some dessert? I'm like, I'll have this, this, this, this, and I'll, can I have some more prawns, please?
Melanie Avalon
I'm just prepping you for when we get our meal together for the first time. You're going to be so ready. I'm going to do this. I'm not kidding. Like this is not a joke. Really? No, this is no, this is not completely serious. It's called a savory dessert. People do it. And I learned that term because a waiter said that to me because I, one time I ordered the salmon for dessert. He's like, Oh, I asked him, I was like, do other people do this? He's like, yeah, sometimes people get savory desserts. And I was like, Oh, see, it's a thing. It's a rare thing, but it's a thing.
Barry Conrad
I think I might just try just to see how I go like if my system freaks out that I'm not having a sweet treat or if it's all good maybe I should try it.
Melanie Avalon
It's definitely awesome to get in even more protein. People say you can't get enough protein in one meal. Try me.
Barry Conrad
You can, trust me.
Melanie Avalon
You can. Okay. Well, that was fun. We will put a link in the show notes to your show so people can see Bancer with BC so people can see this restaurant.
Barry Conrad
see the food more importantly and the amazing guests but the food too. You're so funny. What did you say? Fettuccine is like pasta is one of my favorite dishes that I don't eat.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that and Funfetti. Okay, well, on that note, so we have some questions for Barry, although, okay, so Barry, the context of this, these are questions for you, and the people who asked them actually don't know it's you yet. Because I asked question, because while we're recording this, we have not yet aired your first episode, so it's still a secret. I think in this post, people knew that you're a male co-host, but they don't know who it is. But here's some listener questions for you, and some we kind of touched on like two weeks ago, so we can like briefly recap those. So Michelle, for example, I'm actually gonna combine these two different ones, because you can answer both together. So Michelle wants to know what brought you to IF, and Andrea wants to know how long have you been intermittent fasting? And then Andrea has another question, but yeah, so when did you start again, and so how long has it been?
Barry Conrad
started around late 2018, late 2018, beginning of 2019. So it's been a few years now. And, you know, I started hearing about it at that time. And that's how I found this podcast cue. And, you know, how I could potentially, you know, help with my body composition and muscle that really attracted me to it. I heard about the energy and the focus that you can get, which was like, tada, there was like a bulb in my mind that went off. So went straight in, I dove straight into that, and have been sort of hooked ever since.
Melanie Avalon
The energy and focus is so incredible. It's like something you just don't know until you experience it, in my opinion.
Barry Conrad
You're right. It's like a razor sharp focus that you get listeners. You have to like, you'll know what we mean if you're already an intermittent faster. And if you're not yet, it's definitely something that you will experience.
Melanie Avalon
The thing it reminds me of is I remember before I was fasting, there would be times that I would be like really excited about something or like in the zone. And I would just have this feeling of like, Oh, this is like the feeling of, of just energy and focus and like dopamine, but it was rare. It would really only happen and like highlight key moments of my life. And then I started fasting. I was like, Oh, you can feel like this every day. This is so great.
Barry Conrad
Who knew? She's not wrong. It's true. You do.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And then Andrea also wants to know, do you have any particular diet that you follow? And I don't, I actually don't think I asked you that two episodes ago. So do you have any particular diet that you follow?
Barry Conrad
Andrew, that's a great question. You know what? I used to follow a paleo style approach back in the day. Then after I started fasting, I gravitated more towards just prioritizing my protein, making sure it's high protein meals and having carbs in there. But depending on what I'm preparing for, if it's a shoot or performance or whatnot, I'll tweak the carb limitations, like how much carbs I have, if that makes sense. It's about staying flexible for me and intentional about keeping that focus on the high protein. That's a big deal for me. Does that answer your question?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think it does. So so basically, here's my question, my follow up question. So are any foods off limits for you? Or is it more about, you know, the protein, the macros, things like that? And how strict were you when you were doing paleo? Were you like really strict?
Barry Conrad
I was really strict during Paleo, actually. I'd go out to eat with people and just have, for example, if I'm going to a breakfast spot, I would order a big breakfast always, and I'd just lose the bread, lose the hash brown, which is a potato fried situation, lose any of that stuff, and just have the poached eggs, bacon. I would have the halloumi cheese, tomato, mushroom, spinach. I was pretty strict with that. And I would just never have bread, pretty much, ever. But now I definitely have rice, lots of rice. I don't have still as much bread, because it bloats me, depending on what kind of bread it is. But I don't steer away. I'm not as strict. But yeah, in terms of ultra-processed, it's like a no zone for me until I'm unless I planned it most of the time.
Melanie Avalon
Do you find that since you started fasting that you can quote, get away with more with what you eat compared to before you were doing that?
Barry Conrad
I definitely think that I can and I try I sometimes it's kind of cheeky because I'll play with that and and sometimes I've tipped it too far admittedly like let me just have a little something more but I usually just pull it straight back in again because I know what effect it has on me and and not just to look how I feel. You just feel that there's you know what I mean Melanie like having the ultra processed all that sugar and whatnot you just don't feel as good but yeah I can get away with a lot more which is interesting because before fasting I didn't eat as much and I would gain like a lot of body fat for example or look a lot more bloated now I can I actually eat more every day and I can incorporate like some trinkets here and there and be fine you know.
Melanie Avalon
That's definitely my experience as well, which I just really really really appreciate and love. Okay, well actually speaking of because Jackie has two questions and I'm gonna read them in reverse order. She says have you ever had a weight problem?
Barry Conrad
Hi, Jackie. What's up? How's it going? Hope you're having a good day. I've never had a weight issue per se, but I would definitely say before fasting, I looked stockier. I don't know how you would say that in America, kind of like more full-faced, a bit more bulky. Puffier? Maybe a bit puffier, like holding a bit more water. Only in hindsight, I can say that now, looking back. But I definitely was a bit more puffy, holding a bit more water weight and I found that harder to shift. So in terms of like a weight issue, it wasn't really an issue, but that's the difference. But yeah, there's a noticeable difference now for me.
Melanie Avalon
And then her second question was, why are you qualified to co-host an intermittent fasting podcast? It's like you're in a job interview. Did I even ask you this? I don't think so.
Barry Conrad
It's like, Barry, why are you qualified? Like, what makes you here for this position? I would say my qualification, it comes from experience. I've been living this intimate and fasting, like lifestyle consistently now for a few years, I've, I've gotten results from it. I've, I've learned what sort of works for me and also what doesn't work for me. So I feel like I can comment on that. People that follow me will also say that's something that, you know, Barry's done consistently. Like we would trust his opinion, what he has to say, cause he hasn't deviated from that. So that's, I mean, that's what I would say. That's what qualifies me. What do you think, Melody? Do you think that qualifies me?
Melanie Avalon
I think it qualifies you. I am super excited having you here because you walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Like you were saying, and I'm saying now, you've been doing the intermittent fasting, you see how it works, and you really understand the importance of protein. And I think we are two good examples of how you can embrace an intermittent fasting lifestyle with different levels of intensity and strictness, like with the food and everything. So for me, I'm like really crazy. But I like it. I'm not doing it out of fear or because I feel like I have to. I just like it. It makes me feel good. And then you know what works for you. We just talked about it, the protein and adjusting the carbs if needed, but then also having that flexibility. And then I also love that you do exercise and weightlifting and things like that because that's a whole another perspective that you can touch on.
Barry Conrad
I was going to add, thank you so much for saying that, by the way, Mel really appreciate that I was going to add as well, I feel like what I bring what I can bring to this is, you know, a perspective that other people can relate to particularly guys because I am really into my resistance training and I'm not like a gym bro, but I go to the gym a lot, you know, and so that's a big part of my life and a lot of guys might have the misconception that fasting is going to make me lose my gains here to tell you guys. That's not the case and I'm super excited for just more guys to hear that. So that's a huge thing for me. I'm really excited.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm super excited about that. And we actually have a good question next week where we're going to talk about a lot of muscle stuff and science on it. So listeners get excited for that. And you're you're very like smart and intelligent. And so I'm really excited. You know, because we get a lot of questions that require doing research and things like that. And I'm really excited to see where we go down the research rabbit holes. It's gonna be fun.
Barry Conrad
I'm stoked i'm so excited about that i love researching so let's go coming.
Melanie Avalon
fun. Okay, Kyoko says I like this one. Do you have it is very cool name. Do you have any disagreements with Melanie about certain IF or biohacking protocols?
Barry Conrad
all the time, all the time. Just before this episode, we had a huge fight. It was so hard to...
Melanie Avalon
argument. I was crying. It was...
Barry Conrad
No, not yet. Not yet. Right. Well, but I mean, honestly, no. And I know a lot of people like lie about stuff like that. But Melanie, you're incredibly knowledgeable about intermittent fasting and biohacking and what you know what you're talking about. And so far, we've been on the same page about most of that. And I love I also love that we can have open conversations and never never feels like anything's out of bounds. When we talk about this, we can share different approaches. But at some point, at some point, we'll find things that we probably see differently. But I'm here for that because I feel I feel like it would be boring if we saw things exactly the same way. What do you think?
Melanie Avalon
I feel the same way. I'm really excited. I'm excited to see where it goes and what things we do find that we have differing opinions on. And something I think that is so important just in general is I really value having an open mindset, an open perspective. I love when you can engage with somebody and you don't have to worry about offending them or having differing opinions because I just think differing opinions and opinions in general are just important. So yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes. We'll have to see.
Barry Conrad
Well, we'll see. Watch the space listeners if we have any fights or anything.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. Nydia wants to know what are his non-scale victories. Do you know that term?
Barry Conrad
I do know that term through this podcast, actually.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yay. So people often abbreviate them NSVs, which, so for listeners, basically non-weight related benefits that you've experienced from intermittent fasting.
Barry Conrad
It's a good question. I have so many and listeners, if you check out, was it episode four or five, Melanie? We actually, Melanie and I actually go through our top I have benefits, which it's a really, really good episode, really good takeaways. So I won't go through all of them, but I can't get past the energy and the focus. Like it's such a huge thing for me because my days, they fall on. So that razor sharp focus, I can't get past that. It's one of the most attractive things for me. And second of all, I'll just say that eliminates a lot of decisions around food and takes, I have enough decisions to make on the daily. I don't need to be thinking all day, what do I eat? What do I eat? So probably those two things I'll mention now, but definitely go back to that episode and have a listen to both of our benefits.
Melanie Avalon
And some of the reason, like some of the science behind the focus, I mean, it's quite a few different things, but when you're in the fasted state, you're just running off the body fat, you're generating ketones. So you have a really stable energy supply and our brain is a very energy hungry organ in our body. You know, it's responsible for so much of our daily metabolism and it constantly needs fuel. And so when we're in the fed state and living from snack to snack, meal to meal, our insulin is going up and down, our energy levels are going up and down. So it's not giving the brain that, you know, consistent energy stream that it gets when you're fasted. And then fasting also does things like bumps up BDNF, which is a neurotropic factor in the brain that's kind of like miracle growth for the brain. It really helps support the brain's performance and it's anti-aging. And so that's a big deal. And then just like the neurotransmitters in general that are released by fasting are often even things like adrenaline and norepinephrine, epinephrine are very stimulating for the brain. So there's lots of, lots of benefits. I love it.
Barry Conrad
Same and you know what is there is the scale I don't often wear myself because Melanie correct me if I'm wrong it can be really deceiving it just a regular scale because muscle weighs more than fat a and it's just. If from even throughout the day you can have like a couple drinks of water and then your weight on the scale will change so I kind of don't really go by scales anyway.
Melanie Avalon
Scales are interesting. I feel like there's a lot of different opinions. Like some people will say, I think, I think it depends on your goals. It depends on you, like different opinions out there. Like some people say don't weigh yourself. Like because of a lot of the reasons you just mentioned, some people will say, just go off of like body measurements and things like that. Then on the weighing front, some people will say you should weigh every single day at the same time because you want to capture all those little fluctuations. And then some people will say, no, you should weigh like once a week at the same time. I have my thoughts, but so for you, you don't weigh.
Barry Conrad
Well, let me zoom out for a second. I don't not weigh, but I don't own a scale. And that's also in part due to past issues with body image stuff. But at the gym, there's scale there. So what I will do, if I can control this variable, is if I've fasted consistently the same window in a given week and ate relatively the same foods, and I'm going to the gym always in the fastest state in the morning, I've used the restroom, blah, blah, blah. Then I'll jump on the scale before anything else. That is a more accurate representation of what's happening in terms of my weight if I kind of average that out over the week. But if I can't control those variables, it's going to be different for me anyway. I could be wrong, but yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I love that. The most variables that you could control to make it as consistent from that data, I think is so important. So like everything you said, like before you're eating in the morning, there's actually an app I really, really like. It's called Happy Scale. Have you heard of it? What is it? Tell me that. It's really great. Well, first of all, before I talk about Happy Scale, because that's just an app. We talked about this a lot when Jen was the co-host because she was obsessed with her shape of scale. That's a scale that is an actual scale, but it doesn't actually show you a weight number. It just shows you a color and the color lets you know if you're like maintaining, gaining or losing. So some people like that. They don't want to actually see the number. Happy Scale. I love this app. So it's an app on your phone. You put in your weight, ideally like you were saying at the same time, every day. And what it does, it takes into account, I don't know how its algorithms work. And obviously, it's better the more you use it, but it takes into account fluctuations and your overall trend. And so it tells you, it really creates graphs and it really shows you, are you actually losing or gaining fat? So you might find that you put in a number that is the same as yesterday, but it'll be like, oh, you actually lost weight. Or you might put in a number that's higher than yesterday and it'll say that it could be different than what you thought. You might put in a number lower than yesterday and it doesn't say that you lost weight because it takes into account all of the data. I really recommend it. It's called Happy Scale.
Barry Conrad
That's really cool. I actually really like that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you can put in your goal weight and it'll tell you like you made progress and it never will tell you that you backtracked the purpose of it is to make you always feel like you're moving forward while giving you very clear honest data.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I love that. I think I'm going to check that out. Thanks for the rec, Mel. I mean, for example, I'm here in Melbourne right now, a city that's vibrant with food and restaurants and trinkets and all the stuff I love. After this podcast, if I went out and indulged in all the foods I wanted, I'm sitting around 80 kgs at the moment. I know that because it's been consistent. But if I smash all that food, I know confidently tomorrow I'll be up maybe 83, 84, but I wouldn't freak out because I know it's not just fat. It's just the effects that you cannot outrun that food have in your body. So it's just about having perspective on that, knowing your body, knowing what food does to it, and then not freaking out if there's a fluctuation in a day.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And like, if you think about it, the human body, like our body is around like 60% water anyways, and it can fluctuate, you know, different numbers, that's a lot of water to fluctuate around numbers, you know, there's just so many different factors that can, that can change. And then the fact that carbs are so worth water or not, the role of burning fat versus muscle versus losing carbs, there's just, there's so many things factors that come into play. So you have to check out Happy Scale. Let me know what you think. And check it out. I'll make a note and actually related because you and I had talked about talking about this. We're talking about tracking weight right now. How do you feel about tracking the fast?
Barry Conrad
Ah, okay. Well, it's really cool because when I first started fasting, I love data. I don't know the email, so I just I loved the idea of getting an app and tracking. I think out of necessity at first, like, am I sticking to this properly? Because I dozed right into like 19 hours. And I just wanted to, I was kind of watching the clock tick to be honest at first, like, as soon as it went 19, I got the food, I had the food in front of me ready to go. But funnily enough, just a couple weeks ago, and I think I even mentioned this to you, Mel, I got rid of it, I got rid of the app. And I, I decided it's time to trust myself and that'll be consistent and build a routine that works long term rather than freak out and have the training wheels sort of quote unquote on the whole time because I've done it long enough now. I haven't looked at any clocks and I feel amazing. And I'm just trusting the process rather than keeping an eye on it. But to be honest, I think it's really helpful in the beginning for people starting out. That's my take. What about you?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I have a really similar take. And I remember because I think because we were talking and I said, I don't ever track and you're like, Oh, I think I'm going to try that. So yeah, I think, I think definitely in the beginning, I think it'd be really important to help people adopt to the intermittent fasting lifestyle. I know for me, I when I first started, I was tracking, I was tracking like the minimum amount of fasted hours, like I wanted to fast a minimum amount of hours. And I always made sure that I went that number. And I don't even remember what that number was. I don't remember.
Barry Conrad
Look, 16.
Melanie Avalon
I want to say 16, but that doesn't actually make sense based on what I was eating. So it probably was like 18 or 19 or 20. I think having that accountability and something you can track in the beginning is really, really important, like I said, because especially a lot of people have to adapt, their metabolism has to learn to be flexible and switch into the fat burning state. So having a tracker of sorts can just make you commit to it and then let your body figure it out and adapt from there. And then I think after that, it's really what makes you happy. And I know for me, I really like not tracking now. So I don't ever track anything. I just do my one meal day in the evening and that's what I do. I don't count hours. I don't track. I think the only time I would track is if I were wanting to do a longer fast, then I would probably do it for that. But that's what works for me. And some people might, I don't know. I'd be curious, listeners, do any of you guys perpetually track for years and years and years?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, we should put up a poll on the Instagram and see where people and also ask on the Facebook.
Melanie Avalon
about that? That's a really good question. I'm actually really curious. I'd be curious because I know we've had, we'll put a link in the show notes, we interviewed one of the head people of the Xero app, Dr. Naomi Parela. She was incredible. I really loved interviewing her. Her specialty, her background is really helping, she has like a clinical background helping people lose weight. We actually talked a lot about wasympic and things like that as well, but that's your app. It's probably like the go-to fasting app. Is that the one that you use, Xero?
Barry Conrad
That's the one that I used. I didn't want to say like, it's not an ad. We're not sponsored by this, but yeah, that's the one that I definitely used and stuck with that the whole time.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so that's a really great app. I think it helps so many people and it's evolved a lot. Because when I first used it, I used it like in the beginning that it was created and it couldn't do that much stuff. And then I was revisiting it, interviewing her. Yeah, I can do a lot. So I think it's a great motivational tool for a lot of people, definitely a great accountability tool. So I think you just have to know what works for you. But I think if there's a lot of freedom and knowing that you can use it or you cannot use it, but like not feeling like you have to use it or you're tied to it or a fear based mindset, I would never want that with it.
Barry Conrad
If you had to guess roughly what your average would be like in a week, like how many hours minimum do you think that you'd probably follow generally? Yeah, what would you say? Do you know?
Melanie Avalon
I kind of would have to look at it backwards, which is how long do I usually eat every day? And that's usually probably like four hours. So I probably fast around 20, if I were to guess. Yeah, how about you?
Barry Conrad
generally like my average is always been well in the beginning was nineteen then i went to then i tried eighteen didn't love that went back to nineteen then went up to twenty twenty one that went back to twenty and i told between nineteen and twenty for ages and i just said you know what let me set it at nineteen on the app. Because then i always over like i always got twenty twenty one rather than trying to meet that twenty you know it's just psychologically always work that way.
Melanie Avalon
That's a nice little psychological trick.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because otherwise, like it's kind of like watching a kettle boil or like watching the clock when you're trying to wait for, you know, it just feels like forever when you do that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so we probably fast around the same ish. I think so.
Barry Conrad
Although, I will say I eat pretty quickly, which I'm trying to work on as well, just enjoy it, take my time. So I feel like, generally speaking, I eat in a very short window, but then I just kind of would count from then onwards rather than, you know, because I'm not eating for four hours, quote unquote, but it's still 20 hours fast, so I just start 20 hours from when I finish eating. Does that make sense?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but then there must be like a catch up day where, well, I guess because you change around the meal timing of your meal, things kind of like even out and settle.
Barry Conrad
through for work and stuff as well, like I'll eat. Some days will be a completely different time and I'm not freaked out about that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that makes sense. When you eat at restaurants, do you eat fast?
Barry Conrad
I'm more mindful that I'm with other human beings and that I don't want to look like a pig, so I try to take my time more, but people genuinely will be like, man, you inhaled that or whatnot. I think with you, I'll probably just be myself and just eat the way I eat, but if I'm at a business meeting or something like that or meeting people the first time, I'm like, I try not to just eat, try to talk maybe a bit, drink a little something, eat, you know what I mean? What about you?
Melanie Avalon
So funny. Yeah, we're different. I'm a slow eater. I'm like the girl at the restaurant. I'm like the last person to finish my plate. Always. I like dragging it out. A, I eat that way anyways. And then B, I just like milking the experience, like dragging it out. And yeah, it's also like, I find it difficult to eat and talk. I mean, like, that's another reason I like eating slow. I feel like it's easier to engage socially if you're eating really slow.
Barry Conrad
I think so too. You know what, Melanie, you've inspired me not just to try a savory dessert, but to really, mindfully, I'm going to try it just to go slower than what I normally do. It'd probably drive me crazy, but let me just try to slow it down, smaller bites, chill, see what happens. I don't know if I want to go.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Let me know. You can work on that muscle so then when we get our dinner, because it's going to be a long dinner, so prepare yourself.
Barry Conrad
No, well, I know it's going to be a long, but that also means I'm going to go in. I'm going to order more and more food while I wait for you to have your one situation.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you could just like eat more. While I'm going slow, slow, slow.
Barry Conrad
Are you going to judge me? I'm kind of like.
Melanie Avalon
I don't judge. You do you. I want everybody to do themselves. I want everybody to do what makes them happy.
Barry Conrad
I still really am determined to one day guess what I'm gonna say has to do with you.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, it could be a few different things. Is it to have me like eat cake or something?
Barry Conrad
Yes, that was the first thing. Yeah. Was that it? And watch you do it and like fill it like, you know, be so fun just to see your reaction.
Melanie Avalon
What's funny is i was like starting to answer it but then i was like what he said something that he's doing and i'm answering about me i was like no i think this is a pretty sure this is it.
Barry Conrad
the cake.
Melanie Avalon
You want to, like, be present there.
Barry Conrad
just like one bite of like, well, you don't like chocolate. So you'd probably like a vanilla cake or something like that. Cause I don't know if there's a fun study, unless it's the thing in restaurants in America, it's not a thing here in restaurants. So I don't know.
Melanie Avalon
They do have it at some restaurants, but it's not like what you make at home. But it is at some places.
Barry Conrad
That's happening, I'm going to try even if I attempt and fail, I just want to see what your actions like very stop.
Melanie Avalon
you know, forcing me to eat this. It's funny because I like to encourage people to like follow their dreams and succeed, like you're going to fail. I'm just telling you it's funny, like, like, I just know myself so well. Like I, I won't eat it. Like, I don't know what you could do it unless you literally like forced it down my throat to like make me eat it.
Barry Conrad
We'll do like a scenario at some point. I think we're going to go on too long if I keep talking about this, but we'll throw some scenarios at you in the future and see if it'll change your mind. Like if this happened, would you do it?
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yeah, that's, yeah, we should do that. Yeah. Okay. We'll see. We'll see. All right. So turning the tables, do you have any questions for me about podcasting? I've been asking you a lot of questions these past few episodes.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, you know what? And I feel kind of greedy about that. You've been asking me all the questions. So I've got a few that I'd like to ask you.
Melanie Avalon
All righty, and you are not greedy. I've been here for like seven years, so I'm excited to hear your questions.
Barry Conrad
Should we dive in? So what originally inspired you to get so deep into the world of intermittent fasting and make it such a sensual part of your life and career?
Melanie Avalon
I tried it for a week as a diet experiment amidst all the other diet experiments and the shocking amount of effectiveness it had, not only for weight loss, which you can't really realize that right away in a few days, but just everything we've been talking about, like the way it made me feel, the energy, the focus, the time, getting that, I think getting that time back might have been one of the main things in the beginning. I was like, whoa, I don't have to be, because this is when I was in college and I was literally like, because I had my classes throughout the day and I would like go to class like feverishly bike to my apartment to like, I mean Barry style, like cram down a meal, then like feverishly bike back to class, like it was so stressful, like having to plan that all out and I was like, whoa, I could just not do that. I could literally just not worry about it until dinner and then at dinner I could eat like all I want, which was so exciting because I've always been the type of person that, I feel like there are different people when it comes to like food and like some people I've never been my entire life. Like whenever you go to like speaking of being at a restaurant, like I feel like there are two main types of people. Like there are people who finish their plate always and people who don't. And it like always blew my mind that people, I mean, I wish I was this type, but like don't eat all their food. Like, like for me, I like just, I could always just keep eating always since I was little. That's how I feel. So I was never the type that I would like leave food on the plate. So the point of that is it was really exciting to be able to just like feast at night and eat all I want and then go to bed and not have to always be set. Literally it's like when I would start eating, it's like, oh, I love this food, but I have to stop soon. Like, and I know that maybe that makes me sound, I don't know, like disordered, but I do think there were some people that really just like eating more than others. So fasting lets me like do all of that and not have the negative ramifications. And on the flip side actually have health benefits. It became more part of my life, like with what I'm doing here, because I was doing it before it was popular, like colloquially in the, in the social world. So I needed, I wanted to have like resources for people because I knew it was going to become more popular and I knew people would be like wanting to learn about it. So you know, that's why I wanted to podcast and I wrote my book originally because people thought it was so weird and I was like, I just got to have some sort of resource I can give to people so they'll know the science behind it. So yeah, it was like good timing, no pun intended for everything.
Barry Conrad
So good. And you've been really open about your journey with food sensitivities. Has fasting helped you manage those better? And if so, how? Oh, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, for sure, because it's really hard to, well, A, I guess making concentrated specific dietary choices is helpful for that as well, but in addition, when you are fasting and you go into the fastest state, it's very anti-inflammatory, your system clears out from all the food. And then when you eat the food, you really can tell, at least for me, how you're reacting to it. And so I can tell, it just gives me a lot more clarity. It's like a flashlight or a mirror on how I'm reacting to food. And then on top of that, it's really healing for the gut and all the things. And I know, I've been talking about this for seven years, but I know it sounds crazy how plain I eat and simple, but I just genuinely, I found that when I cut out all the other food, I just genuinely love the taste of plain food. So yeah, but no, it's definitely really helpful for me for the sensitivities, for sure.
Barry Conrad
And is there, is this something you're still experimenting with in your own fasting?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, more so maybe with food things, but with the fasting, I so it's interesting because a lot of people will change around their fasting. I mean, you know, you change yours around with like the time that you eat and things like that. And a lot of people, especially women, find that they need to change it up. I know like I, we recently had Megan Ramos on the show around a month ago. We'll I think she said this on the show that like she thinks it's a bad idea to eat, you know, the same window every day, or like one meal a day every day. And a lot of people do think that and I do think that's probably the case for a lot of people. It's often hard, especially for women to get enough protein in that eating window. But for me, like I've been very consistent for years and years and years, like over a decade. And the only really experimentations I've done, I've tried a couple times longer fast, I have tried eating earlier, and that does not work for me. So I'm pretty settled in what I do. I don't foresee many experiments. I kind of tried those and like didn't like them.
Barry Conrad
Okay. Has your, like, has your personal approach to intermittent fasting changed over the years? And what's one thing you've learned from hosting this podcast that's changed your personal approach to fasting?
Melanie Avalon
There's a lot of change with my food choices, but with the fasting, not really, just those brief experiments with like, I've tried fasting mimicking diet before, I've tried longer fasts. Like I said, I've tried eating earlier occasionally, but I don't like it. So there hasn't been a lot of change or experimentation on my part for fasting. Things I've learned from this show so, like honestly so much because we've been getting so, when we get so many questions and it's so many things I would never even think of to research or look up. So it's a ton. I'm trying to think of something that I've learned from this show that I like implemented in my life. I have done, oh, well, that would be something that I've experimented with with fasting. In the past, I did try like Bulletproof coffee, you know, putting like butter in your, not the brand, but like Dave's concept of like putting, you know, butter in your coffee and MCT oil in your coffee. I've experimented with that. I definitely experimented with the MCT oil in the coffee during the course of this show and learning more about it and things like that. It doesn't work for me. It actually makes me like hungrier. Yeah, especially the MCT oil, but it's just interesting because yeah, the majority of my experiments have been food related. And I feel like, so if we go through like the history of the coho, so like Jen, she was pretty consistent with doing one meal a day, you know, every day, but she would eat all different things. Cynthia, she had a pretty consistent window, but much earlier than mine. And I also think she would like change it up a little bit. And then Vanessa would change things up a lot, like experiment with a lot of different things. And then I feel like you are the most varied in that I feel like when Vanessa's doing, like Vanessa changes around a lot, but when she changes, she's pretty consistent with the new thing she's doing, if that makes sense. Whereas I feel like with you, your schedule, with your fasting, like you're kind of like a puzzle where it's like shifting around, but you're mostly getting in that 20 hours. Does that make sense? Like yours seems to be more changing daily than the other cohosts. Those are good questions.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, I've got another one for you. Do you have time for one more? Yeah. So you've talked a lot about biohacking, of course. That's a massive part of your life. You've talked a lot about biohacking in relation to fasting. So do you have any biohacking protocols that you think pair really well with intermittent fasting for maximum results?
Melanie Avalon
So I was looking to see if I had let, cause I know we had gotten a question about biohacking and I thought it was here, but I don't see it now. I thought somebody had asked us what was our, oh, maybe that's next week. Okay. So teaser for next week. That's why teaser. Okay. Biohacking protocols that pair well with fasting. Well, so many things. So, well, first of all, like I love my infrared sauna, my sunlight and solo sauna that I use every night in my life. I, do you do sauna sessions?
Barry Conrad
I haven't done sauna sessions yet, but I've done one. And then I have a red light therapy device, devices.
Melanie Avalon
I would be excited for you to try so you kind of like how we're talking about with fasting like you don't really know what it feels like until you do it. I feel like Barry, you're going to be so hooked. You're gonna be like, really? Yeah, I literally can't imagine my life not doing them now.
Barry Conrad
Why, tell me.
Melanie Avalon
because you feel so, well, there's so many benefits to it. I mean, it's great cardiovascular benefits, arguably comparable to the cardiovascular benefits of exercise, like cardio. And then it's great for pain relief. Like when you get in the sauna, it just feels like, oh, like a sigh of relief. But the main thing for me is the detoxing effect. So like sweating out all of that sweat every day, you feel so, you feel like clean from the inside out. Like it makes me, it makes me feel so clean. And I originally started doing it because I was trying to detox heavy metals. It's kind of like if you had an apartment and you keep it clean, but then you realize that you could get like a deep clean and you could actually do that like every day. It's like that, it's just wonderful. The reason I thought of it is I would never want to do a sauna session like on a full stomach. That would just feel so uncomfortable. So I love pairing fasting with, like I love being in the fastest state and doing a sauna session.
Barry Conrad
Well, sounds like I need to try that because I definitely have tried like an infrared sauna session and I felt amazing afterwards, but just one time. So I've got to I've got to keep going back.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you I think you would love it. I think you would love it.
Barry Conrad
Because that would have benefits for muscle recovery too, right?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes. Yeah, it's great for that. It actually, did you know, okay, what is this fact? So, for example, when I interviewed Wendy Myers, I learned that heat is actually required for human growth hormone release from exercise. So like, if you're exercising and you're not actually getting hot, which you are like on a cellular level, typically, even if you're not, you know, feeling hot, but there's something about that heat that is actually involved in the human growth hormone release. And so it's really the sauna can help benefit that as well, releasing human growth hormone and helping support muscle. And then also, yes, recovery in general. Yes, it's great for that.
Barry Conrad
Well, guess who's signing up for more sessions than me.
Melanie Avalon
Very Conrad. Yeah, so awesome.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's the end of my session, my questions for putting you in the hot seat. Then this is a taste of things to come, there'll be more to come.
Melanie Avalon
I know so many more things. Well, this was so, so fun listeners. Check out these show notes. They will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 406. They'll have a full transcript. They'll have links to everything that we talked about. You can submit your own questions by emailing questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. I'm Melanie Avalon. Barry is, I've got it. Barry underscore Conrad, right? That's right. Yeah. And the show is I have podcast and I think that's all the things. So anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
This is a really, really fun episode. I don't know how we're going to just keep topping it. I love it.
Melanie Avalon
I'm excited. Next week, we're going to start on answering the listener questions in the normal format of, you know, fasting questions. So it'll be fun. It's going to be good. I will talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
We'll talk to you next week. Bye.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!