Welcome to Episode 411 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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LINKS
Featured Restaurant: Antoine's Restaurant
Mentioned Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episodes:
#272 - Laura Morris & Jennifer Ventrelle, MS, RDN | The Official Mind Diet
#136 - Dr. Steven Gundry | Gut Check
#286 - Dr. Amani Ballour | The Cave Documentary
STUDIES
Effects of Ramadan fasting on moderate to severe chronic kidney disease
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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Welcome to episode 411 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of Avalon X and author of What, When, Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo Style Meals, intermittent fasting and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer, songwriter, and creator and host of banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iphpodcast.com or by going to iphpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine. If it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 411, 411 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel, how's it going? I'm doing really, really, really good today. I have had a really productive day so far. Sydney is looking, it's showing up and showing out beautiful weather. Feeling great. How are you doing?
Melanie Avalon
I am doing swell, also beautiful weather. It's snowing, although this is coming out in March, although does it still snow in March sometimes?
Barry Conrad
Maybe some parts of America.
Melanie Avalon
That works. Well, conversation that we must have, I'm going to re-ask you it, even though you know what it is, and I know your answer, but we must discuss this because this is mind-blowing to me. So did you know you didn't know, but you know now, because I already told you, telling you again, did you know, and listeners, that snow doesn't just form, like the raindrops do not just become snowflakes, they have to have a nucleus, which is particulate matter and dust and stuff in the air. So every little snowflake has a piece of physical something at the center of it, and snow cannot form without this. It can in a loud situation, but not in the real world. Did you know this?
Barry Conrad
I did not know this at all. I just thought it was basically, you know, water freezing in the air and falling to the ground. That's why I've eaten the snow. It's like, oh, this is just frozen water.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like we were taught how snow forms a lot in school, and nobody ever mentioned a nucleus.
Barry Conrad
What does that mean? What does for listeners and for me? What does that mean? Like a nucleus, like a piece of, like a speck of dust?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so there's some, like some sort of particle in the air. I mean, a lot, they're like microscopic particles, but it forms around that. If not, there is no snow. It would just be really cold rain.
Barry Conrad
Well, I'm glad. I thank the universe or whoever's out there for that nuclear nuclei. How do you say it? Nuclear?
Melanie Avalon
I guess for the nuclei, if multiple.
Barry Conrad
Because we love snow and i'm glad that we have it so but i didn't know that didn't know that metal until today so false advertising what we learned in the school it's not what happens.
Melanie Avalon
I know. And now I look at the snow and I'm like, so is it dirty? It's like, I'm like stressed about this. And it means it's not like there's snow and then some cold rain. It's only snow. That means there's so many little particles in the air everywhere.
Barry Conrad
So does that mean you can, are you grossed out now by snow rather than loving it because of that new information?
Melanie Avalon
not grossed out, I just feel like I feel like somebody lifted the curtain, like the illusion is gone.
Barry Conrad
Smoke and mirrors, the veil is fallen on how snow is made.
Melanie Avalon
I know. So here we are. Here we are. What's new in your life?
Barry Conrad
You'll love this, Mel. I'm actually preparing for a show called Disco Wonderland, and it's basically I'll be hosting and performing at this event. It's with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, but disco music. So think high energy, sophisticated, classy, awesome fun. We have people like Pauline, who's one of Australia's best female voices. We have Tim Lucy Mondo, who I did beautiful, the Carole King musical with. And we have, you'll like this one, Nick Afoa, who played Simba in The Lion King. So we're all taking the stage. It's going to be- Wait, wait, wait. In the original Lion King? The stage production, the musical.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, he played it like in the, in which version, in Australia.
Barry Conrad
Australia and New Zealand, yeah. And Singapore, yeah. It's going to be lit. It's going to be an amazing couple of nights next. Well, this is going to be in the past now, but it's happening next week, Friday and Saturday. I'm so excited. And also I get to like, you know, dress up, which you'd appreciate as well. If you were here, do you want to come? Do you want to fly?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, thank you. You should come. I would love that.
Barry Conrad
It's right up here, Ellie.
Melanie Avalon
it's disco. So is it going to be like people dancing like a disco party?
Barry Conrad
So yeah, so it's at this place called the Horden Pavilion, which is like one of the most popular venues here in Sydney. And yeah, people will be on their feet dancing. It's a ticketed event. It's gonna go off. I can't wait. I'm so excited. And you're singing? I'm gonna be hosting and also taking the stage, also singing. So I'm kind of holding the night together slash storytelling because it's like a narrative all the way through it. And then also singing.
Melanie Avalon
That's so cool. Oh my goodness, please post all the things.
Barry Conrad
I'm going to post everything, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
feel like I was there. That's amazing. Congrats. That's awesome.
Barry Conrad
Thanks. I'm so excited. Awesome. What about you? Fill me in on all things Melanie.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I had a moment this week this was a moment. I interviewed you might have seen it on Instagram, but Dr. Amani Bellore have I brought her up yet?
Barry Conrad
I don't think so.
Melanie Avalon
So, she was in a 2019 Oscar-nominated documentary called The Cave, and this woman, I have never been so in awe of a human on my show and really nervous, I was so nervous to interview her. So, she was the first woman to lead an underground secret hospital called The Cave in Syria, all during the Syrian Civil War. So, like, so her memoir came out, that's why she was on the show. Her memoir came out like a year ago. I immediately, when I got the pitch, I immediately recognized her from that. I didn't see that documentary when it came out, but I recognized it. So, I read her memoir, I watched the movie, and it was just so, it was so haunting. It made me realize how naive I am to everything that goes on in the world, because basically, she was leading this hospital, and there's shellings, and they're getting attacked all the time, and they're always dealing with war victims, and they're running out of supplies, and she's dealing with patriarchal society where people don't want her to be in charge, and it was so haunting. And then, she's had multiple humanitarian awards, and she's spoken to the United Nations, and it was just crazy. And then what's even crazier is because I booked her like a year ago, she had stopped doing interviews, actually. So, and then we did our interview, and in December is when Assad fled in Syria, and so there was the revolution and everything. So, this was her first interview that she's done since that happened in December of 2024. So, she said, I asked her, because I asked her, what is it like to have these conversations, and is it hard to think about, and are you sad? And she said that the conversation she was having with me was the first time she's had a happy interview, because it was the first one she has done since that happened in December. It was a moment. And then the second moment is, I normally record on what we're recording on right now, which is a podcast recording platform, but we were having some technology issues, so I decided to record it on Zoom. Have you ever recorded something on Zoom?
Barry Conrad
I have.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I was so nervous because we had the interview and I was like, this is one of my most cherished conversations I've ever had in my entire life type thing, you know? And so I was so nervous about losing it that I wasn't closing out the window, like the zoom window because I was like, I can't close it until I have the file. Because what if, you know, so I'm like, I'm not going to close this window, I'm just going to go find the file and then I couldn't find the file because you have to close the window to have the file. So I literally spent like a panicked 30 minutes thinking I lost it, like trying to find it. And then finally I realized, oh, you have to close the window. And then it popped up like right away. And then Barry, I started sobbing, not crying, sobbing. I was so happy.
Barry Conrad
It's like I just picture the-
Melanie Avalon
So yeah, that's my life.
Barry Conrad
It sounds like a really special experience, to say the least, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'll put a link to it in the show notes, but I don't know about you. I just feel like I need to open my eyes a little bit more to the world, what's going on. Like in general.
Barry Conrad
I can relate, you know, with that as well. I mean, there's just so much happening at any one time, but you still feel so sheltered sometimes, you know, and just caught up in your own bubble of your own reality, really speaking for myself.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't watch the news.
Barry Conrad
You don't?
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm gonna keep doing that. I'm gonna keep not watching it even with this experience, but I Just figure if something is bad enough that I need to know about For like my immediate surrounding like I will find out Like people will tell me or all like the zombies will show up at my door Like I just don't want to get overstressed just watching the news all the time because it tends to be like sensationalized and doom and
Barry Conrad
I was about to say the same thing. It really can be sensationalized and there's people that I know who are just so deep in it. Like every update, every, it's just like, and it consumes just the way they live their life and like in fear and anxiety and stress is like, well, I don't really have capacity for that. So I'm not going to do that.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And then there, though, there's the tension where, you know, I feel like I should have known more about the serious situation. I basically learned all of it reading her book and watching the documentary. I didn't even, I didn't know about it that really. So maybe the solution is to like seek out conscious like content like that, where you're seeking out conscious, you know, explorations of topics.
Barry Conrad
And just being intentional about it, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. Well, shall we jump into some fasting-related things?
Barry Conrad
I think we should jump all the way and let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right. So Barry and I are excited because this is going to be the first episode of a new format we're trying. So basically each episode, one of us is going to start with a study that we found related to intermittent fasting. I guess it probably, I should always like in some way relate to intermittent fasting, but it could be a little bit tangential. And then we're going to do listener Q&A. And then at the end, we will break our fast, except sort of in our minds.
Barry Conrad
I'm gonna maybe have a drink it. We'll see how we go
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. That's where we're going to profile the restaurants like we've been doing because we love food. So we love feasting. So to start things off, the study I found, this study is called Molecular Mechanisms of Healthy Aging, the Role of Chloric Restriction, Intermittent Fasting, Mediterranean Diet, and Ketogenic Diet, a Scoping Review. It was published in Nutrients in 2024. The reason I was drawn to the study is it's looking at anti-aging mechanisms for longevity, which is obviously a passion of mine. And it specifically goes through those four things I just mentioned. So calorie restriction, intermittent fasting, Mediterranean diet, and the keto diet to compare how they affect aging and why in a way. Like why is each one having these beneficial effects compared to the other, which I really like because we talk about, we definitely talk about calorie restriction, IF, and the keto diet all the time. And I'm really interested in the Mediterranean diet as well. In general, so the overlap seems to be that they affect the mTOR, AMPK pathways, which we've talked about on the show as well. So mTOR is basically a signaling pathway involved in growth. And AMPK is kind of like the opposite. It's activated during fasting, calorie restriction, and these things we'll talk about it. But it's like self-preservation of the body and it actually is supportive of longevity. So let me go through the four different ones. So calorie restriction, they talked about it and they said, and this is pretty well known, but it is the most effective non-genetic intervention known to date for extending both lifespan and health span, which is something to think about. People say that, I mean, I read that all the time from all different places. And I wonder if that will ever change. I wonder if fasting or some other protocol will ever come out that shows to be more effective. But as of right now, calorie restriction is the most effective. Did you know that?
Barry Conrad
I actually didn't know that but yeah, I'm curious. I'd like to hear the others because this is this is super interesting
Melanie Avalon
They go through examples of studies that show that the reason that calorie restriction seems to be so powerful or potent for longevity is, well, it has a lot of just health effects in general, like weight loss, reducing inflammation, improving cardiovascular health, and then like literally slowing biological aging. But again, it's primarily through how it's affecting that mTOR pathway. So again, that mTOR pathway is like the growth signal mode. And while it's really great and really important, like you need it to build muscle, you need it to grow, you need it to do all those things. Also, if it's over activated, it's aging because then you're always in growth mode. And so calorie restriction reduces its activity. And one of the ways that it might do that is by reducing protein intake. And there's one amino acid and protein called leucine. And it is really, really, it's a really powerful stimulator of that mTOR growth pathway. So by reducing protein with calorie restriction, and in particular leucine, you're reducing that mTOR pathway, and you're encouraging helpful aging. And then on top of that, calorie restriction also reduces insulin, which we talk about a lot in this show, and IGF-1. So insulin is the hormone responsible for fat storage and putting energy into your cells. And it can be aging when you have too much of it all the time, and it stimulates mTOR. And then IGF-1 is also a growth signaler. So calorie restriction reduces both of those. And then not only does it reduce mTOR, but I was mentioning that AMPK, which is the flip side of things, calorie restriction actually activates it. Because like I was saying before, AMPK is activated during things like fasting. It happens when you have a low energy state. So calorie restriction is like literally just a low energy state. So it instigates AMPK. So that's like the summary of calorie restriction and why it's probably anti-aging. I can go into the next ones, but do you have any thoughts?
Barry Conrad
Is this sort of a margin of what that deficit is, what defines calorie restriction, or is it really case by case per person?
Melanie Avalon
I mean. That is such a great question. They just define it as a sustained reduction in overall caloric intake while assuring adequate nutrition. It's kind of, okay, so the studies they looked at, the ones they looked at, for example, they look at one study, a two-year intervention in 218 healthy weight or non-obese individuals, and that was 25% calorie restriction, a follow-up study, this follow-up study would have been the same sample size. So they're saying they're like 25%. I know the calorie restriction society, which is actually a thing, I think they do like 30% restriction, kind of existing in that sphere.
Barry Conrad
Right. So beneath your maintenance calories, you're resting, you know? Yeah. Okay. 30% of that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, 25, 30% or so.
Barry Conrad
And I wonder as well how many days or what frequency people need to do that for this to be effective. Do you know what I mean? Like, is it one day a week? Is it for, you know, every other day? Yeah, that's an interesting question as well. Like, how often do you need to do that?
Melanie Avalon
So like, for example, that, that one intervention I talked about a second ago, that was two years straight. Two years straight. So that was actually the calorie trial, which is probably the most famous of calorie restriction studies besides the Minnesota starvation experiment. And so it was two years, which is a long time. I mean, I don't think like just one day, you know, it's Yeah, so then there is intermittent fasting, represent. And what's interesting about IEF, so it also has a lot of beneficial effects all over. So body composition, cardiovascular health, cholesterol, hormonal health, it's similar to calorie restriction, and that it's affecting those pathways by, you know, reduced energy intake. But they say that it potentially has additional benefits or different impacts compared to calorie restriction. And that's mainly because you get this feasting period where you get high nutrition. And so there's a few different benefits to that one getting the nutrition, but be that like fast fee cycle is actually a cellular stress response mechanism. And fasting supports that more than calorie restriction. So it can help build resilience in the body, possibly more than calorie restriction by going back and forth. They were saying that IEF fasting's effect on insulin may be better because of the fasting feasting period. And then fasting also can do things like upregulate heat shock proteins, and sirtuins, which are also signaling mechanisms in the body which can support longevity. Yeah, so basically, it's pretty similar to calorie restriction in some ways, but it also has other benefits because of that, that cycling nature and that period of time where you're not calorie restricted.
Barry Conrad
I think it's super interesting that it's saying that it builds more resilience on the body than calorie restriction alone, right, intermittent fasting.
Melanie Avalon
that, yeah, basically it can be better for the, it says it can, may also enhance cellular stress response mechanisms more because both of those are a stressor. So fasting is a stressor, calorie restriction is a stressor, but fasting, because you are going back and forth from fasting, eating, fasting, eating, it's like priming the body's stress response more. It's like helping it more. And those stress pathways are really involved in longevity.
Barry Conrad
That's awesome. Go IF!
Melanie Avalon
I know. And then similarly, they did Mediterranean next, but I'll do Keto next because that's what we talk about a lot. And it's also kind of similar. So it's also activating similar pathways and having effects on mTOR, but it's not from not eating. So it's not from a lack of food, like fasting and calorie restriction are. It's actually from highly from reducing insulin, because on a ketogenic diet, you're not having carbs, you're not stimulating insulin and having that glucose. And so that in turn can directly affect the mTOR activity. They had concerns, oh, they said that it also can actually support autophagy, even though you're eating, but that reducing that mTOR and, you know, reducing that insulin can help with that. But they do have concerns about how keto, depending on who you are and what you're doing can affect LDL cholesterol levels. So they say it could pose a potential risk for cardiovascular health in some individuals. But what's interesting about this one, like this pillar, is that it's similar mechanisms and things going on, but you're not doing it from not eating, you're doing it from the type of food you're eating.
Barry Conrad
which really speaks to the importance of actually what we eat. It's not just about the fasting or just restricting calories, but our diet significantly impacts our bodies.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, so, so, so much, which actually brings us to the fourth one, which is the Mediterranean diet. So for the Mediterranean diet, they talk about how it's the most documented diet for slowing the development of age associated conditions. And a big reason for this, by the way, is because of the authors of the MIND diet trial, which was like this really, you know, huge thing and I actually had on some of those researchers and the author, the authors of the official MIND diet on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. So I'll put a link to that in the show notes. But in any case, so the Mediterranean diet, it's really interesting. It also can affect anti-aging pathways, specifically inflammatory markers, things like C-reactive protein and also indirectly affect mTOR. But it's not doing it through, again, like, it's not like keto. It's not doing it through not eating, it's doing it through the actual foods. So it says that some of the foods included in the Mediterranean diet, specifically the high levels of unsaturated fats and the antioxidants can modulate insulin sensitivity and endothelial function, which are then affecting mTOR. Then they also talk about how the fiber rich component of the diet can help support the production of short-chain fatty acids that can have an effect on these aging pathways, which actually brings me to the book I'm reading right now. What is it? I've had Dr. Stephen Gundry on my show twice. He's the figure behind the plant paradox. He's kind of like a legend in that world. I had him on for, I think, the longevity paradox maybe. And then he wrote a book about keto and then I had him on for unlocking the keto code. But his newest book is called Gut Check. Let me see when it comes out. Okay. It's out now. And he's talking all about the role of signaling molecules to the mitochondria to support health and short-chain fatty acids that I just mentioned that the Mediterranean diet can help produce. They actually do so much to signal to our cells mitochondria to get stronger and deal with inflammation and it's anti-aging. So yeah.
Barry Conrad
With a Mediterranean diet, is that things like lots of seafood and some red meat, herbs and spices, things like that, vegetables? There's no poultry, right?
Melanie Avalon
So they define it as, they say it's distinguished by an abundant consumption of unrefined cereals, fruits, vegetables, legumes, olive oil, moderate intake of dairy products and alcohol, represent, low consumption of meat, synergistic blend of vital minerals, antioxidants, and compounds with anti-inflammatory properties. Yeah, when you think of the Mediterranean diet, especially after like reading that book, it's things like fruit and like leafy greens, olive oil, wine, some fish, greens. I feel like
Barry Conrad
Like we could both really get into this diet, but there's a couple of things, like obviously we both eat lots of animal protein, and they don't recommend lots, they just say your moderation. And also the grains, you don't really eat grains, do you, Mel? Not that much, and I don't as well, other than rice, white rice. Could you do it? Could you follow the Mediterranean? Or have you flirted with the Mediterranean diet before?
Melanie Avalon
Well, interestingly enough, all the foods I eat, like quantity wise, it's more than the Mediterranean diet for the animal protein, but the actual foods themselves are all on the Mediterranean diet. So like when I read the official mind diet, which I highly recommend, they actually have a quiz, like it's like a scoring system where you, they want you to eat a certain amount of points. And foods, different foods are like different points. So you can like score yourself and see like how, you know, how well you're doing on the Mediterranean diet, like scale. Yeah. Basically, cause I eat primarily as my meat, it's like fish and scallops and things like that. So I do need to add some more olive oil. I think they're really big olive oil fans. And the only fruits they focus on is, is berries, which is what I eat.
Barry Conrad
Buried, just that.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. And what I really like that they do, because I feel like, okay, there are so many studies tangent. How many times are there health studies and they'll just be fruits and vegetables as the category, like lumped together, like produce? That's so broad. That is so broad. It should be broken down. So like they break it down into berries, and then like all other fruit. And then for vegetables, they break it down into leafy greens and all other vegetables.
Barry Conrad
Interesting.
Melanie Avalon
and it's like different effects like you if you break it down that way you'll find different health effects than lumping it all together.
Barry Conrad
I have a lot of blueberries and raspberries like frozen, like with my Greek yogurt in terms of berries. Is it specifically a type of berry or just all berries?
Melanie Avalon
I think it's all berries. I'm pretty sure, I need to fact check that, but I'm fairly certain it was. Right, it is because there was a question about are cherries included? And I don't remember the answer.
Barry Conrad
I don't have a lot of cherries to get. Do you have a lot of cherries? I don't really buy them on the regular.
Melanie Avalon
No, you haven't had cherries in forever.
Barry Conrad
When I think of cherries, I think of like a dessert, you know, like it's going to be on a slice of a fun, fatty cake or some chocolate cake or something like that. You know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, like a staple flavor like cherry, you know
Barry Conrad
I do. I actually could do, every time I see the Mediterranean diet, just see those words, it just gives a fresh, healthy vibe. I could definitely do Mediterranean diet, I just need way more meat than what they're suggesting.
Melanie Avalon
I do too, yeah.
Barry Conrad
That was super interesting. Just the differences, the different effects that you can get through caloric restriction and IF and then just dietary. Just what we eat. So fascinating.
Melanie Avalon
And I forgot to mention, so Dr. Gundry in that book, he also talks about how ketones are a signaling molecule for the mitochondria. He actually thinks the benefits of the keto diet and ketogenesis are from not necessarily the ketones being fuel, but how they talk to our mitochondria. And our mitochondria are our cells' powerhouses. So they're like the energy production center of every cell. So yeah, he has this theory that it's not like ketones are a great fuel, per se. It's that they talk to the mitochondria, specifically they tell them to uncouple. It's like this whole, this whole thing.
Barry Conrad
Wow, yeah, yeah, what about even with the keto diet, how a lot of people like, well, it's, it's a great reason just to eat a lot of bacon or it's not just that right. It's not just eating a whole lot of bacon is a specific amount of fat. You should have protein is that am I right in saying that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think there's because like, people who are keto and they'll just go all out with like all the fat all the time. And I really, I personally don't think that that's healthy. I don't think it means we should just be slamming ourselves with all of this fat. I think it's more about reducing the carbon take and getting in getting in the ketones and then having, you know, the amount of healthy fats that you need. But people are like, Oh, it's fat is like a free food on keto, because your insulin is low. So you're not going to store any of it. Here's the problem with that. It's just not true. So the reason insulin is low with fat is because fat doesn't really require much insulin to be stored. So it's really ironic, honestly, because people think that that means it's a free food and you're not going to store it. No, it just means it's so easily stored that it's not really even affecting insulin. So if you're eating like tons of fat on keto, you're not gonna be burning dietary body fat, you're gonna be burning dietary fat. Yeah, I think I think a whole foods approach to keto is much more healthy. So like focusing on whole foods and, and then just having natural fats that come with your food already, like steak and chicken. And I mean, you can have bacon, but you don't want to be eating just bacon, which is like mostly fat.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I've seen people eat bacon in like blocks of butter like on you know, social media just to sort of sensationalize Oh, it's just so it doesn't seem healthy at all
Melanie Avalon
I think people should really focus on protein, like we talk about, and having healthy amounts of fat. Yup. So, okay, shall we jump into listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Let's jump on in.
Melanie Avalon
All right, so our first question comes from Nicole on Facebook, and she says, I'm 48 and perimenopause. I work out in the mornings around 5.30 a.m., about four to five days a week at a minimum doing strength training. I know that it's ideal to eat protein after lifting. Do you have thoughts on continuing my fast after my workout and waiting until lunch to eat? Am I doing more harm than good by not eating after lifting? Also, I know that fasting my age is supposed to be different. I have an IUD, so I cannot base anything off my cycle since I do not know where I am at it without menstruating. Okay, so protein waiting to eat after lifting. Do you have thoughts, Barry?
Barry Conrad
I do have thoughts. Nicole, this is a great question. I love my protein. So first off, I'm going to say, you know, fasting at your age can still really work beautifully, but it is about tailoring it to you. So working out at 5.30 AM and delaying that protein until lunch, it's going to be fine, especially if your body feels good because you're maintaining muscle mass and your energy stable. But strength training, it's like a whole, it's a whole different beast. So ideally you want to give your muscles some protein to recover and grow. So a small clean protein source post lift, something like maybe like a shake could do the trick while keeping you close to your, your fasting benefits. But remember we don't actually need to consume protein right after. So you don't have to have it right up, like put the weight down and go to your car and you know, hold down protein. You don't have to do that right after your training, but rather within a 24 hour window. So you may know like the RDA is it's one gram per pound or 0.8 grams per kg of body weight daily. But keep in mind, that RDA it's designed to cover the needs of the general population. So like to just to avoid deficiency, it's not for people like you and I or people who have higher activity levels or specific health goals like building muscle, for example, that's probably not going to, it's not going to probably be optimal. And I'm guessing that if you're training like four or five days a week, you're going to need a bit more protein. So I'd actually recommend 1.5 or even, even double the RDA on average. That's sort of what I'm doing on the daily around 130 grams. Also, you know, I've definitely isn't, it's not a one size fits all kind of situations. So from what you're saying, your IUD makes it a bit tricky with your cycles, but listening to your energy levels and well, how your body feels, that's going to be what guides you. Melanie, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love that. Definitely. You don't have to eat right after the anabolic window can extend for up to 24 hours after a stimulus from, you know, strike training. So what's key is making sure you actually get in enough protein. And you could always adjust. So basically, like I would focus on if you don't want to eat until lunch, I would say that's fine. Just make sure that you're getting enough protein in like Barry was saying. And if you notice that you are losing muscle or aren't making gains, then you know, A, look at how much protein you're eating and B, you could try bumping up earlier like you could you could experiment, but you should in theory be okay as long as you're getting enough. The fasting at any age being different. So check out my interview that I did with Dr. Mindy Peltz on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. She wrote fast like a girl, she wrote the menopause reset. And you can also check out Cynthia Thurlow's book as well, the former co-host on this show because she she talks a lot about this. But you can still so A, yes, you can adjust fasting for, you know, perimenopause menopause. Also, if you have an IUD and don't have cycle, you actually can still have and I think it's Dr. Peltz who talks about this, you can still like track a cycle. And you just do it based I'm trying to remember what she says, I think you can do it around like moon cycles if you want. You can also do it around like using some of your biometrics to figure out like when your cycle would have been. But you can still if you want to, you can still do that. So I would definitely listen to those interviews and check out those books. Some people, yeah, some people really adjust their fasting different ways, others don't. The good thing about fasting is that from what a lot of people say like interviewing Dr. Peltz and like Cynthia, when you actually enter menopause, you can actually do more fasting like your your body's with the exception of you want to make sure you're getting off protein and things like that. The body's not as you don't have to worry as much about like hormonal issues or cycle issues by overdoing it with fasting when you're when you're menopausal versus when you're younger.
Barry Conrad
I get asked this as well, like, you know, fasting is different for men and women, like, can you elaborate on that? And I think that is, I think it's so nuanced. What are your thoughts on that? Well, like, you know, because even what Nicole sang here, I mean, she's very menopause. You know, it's different. It's different to a male's approach. How would you, you can't really blanket statement saying these are the differences and that's black and white.
Melanie Avalon
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, not at all. The ironic thing is women actually tend to be better fat burners than men, which can seem surprising because it seems like women are always the ones, I don't wanna make stereotypes, but a stereotype out there is that women struggle more with weight loss than men, I think. Women are actually, yeah, so especially like when doing exercise, women are more likely to burn fat at certain levels than men. I mean, we store more fat, but we're also like primed to use it more. That's a benefit there. As far as the differences with the fasting, women do need to be more, especially during their cycling years, need to be more concerned about that they're getting enough nutrition that they're not over fasting, and that it's not creating too much of a stress that is gonna throw off other things hormonally. I think they do need to pay more attention to that than men. But these ideas out there that fasting is horrible for women, a lot of it goes back to rodent studies, which are just not even remotely applicable because it's like studies of rodents fasting for an entire day or more, which is the equivalent of days in a human. So it's not surprising that it creates hormonal issues in rats when the equivalent fasting hours would be days and days in humans. And they also have a more sensitive stress response. Rats also, they're much more sensitive to fluctuations affecting their reproductive cycle because they're having kids, I don't know, baby rats all the time. It's something that is much more sensitive to environmental signals of stress.
Barry Conrad
And you do hear a lot. No, we put on weight easier than you guys, like it's easier for guys to be in shape. And I've heard, I have heard some females saying that and I'm not calling everyone out, I'm just saying that's what I've heard on the street, in the gyms and yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think it's I mean, it's a lot so much of it is the insulin resistant and like resistance and the food we're eating but when it actually comes to like the ability to burn fat, like women are made to be fat stores fat stores and fat burners. And that's because we're, there's a lot more concern in the body for running out of energy and nutrients because of having a baby and like supporting a child through like pregnancy and reproduction. So women are good at storing fat and they're good at burning it. There you go.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Something I've learned that I can now answer, well, you know, women actually are good at storing hand-burning fat, so I'll say that.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, exactly. And then once women hit like I was saying before, like menopausal, that's when they become a little bit more similar to men hormonally as far as like the fluctuations and not having to be quite as concerned with fast and creating like hormonal issues.
Barry Conrad
Well, should I jump into the next question? Okay. So we have a question from Jennifer. I'm curious about the safety of intermittent fasting and kidney disease and in brackets she says moderate or if IF could possibly offer any benefits to damaged kidneys. I don't have diabetes. My kidney damage brackets scarring occurred from infections when I was a baby. My GFR is 41 to 54 range.
Melanie Avalon
All right, Jennifer, thank you for your question. I got really excited for a second because I think I manually typed her name in and I spelled it J-E-N-I-F-F-E-R, which is how my cousin spells it and nobody spells it that way. So I got really, I thought for a second, maybe I found somebody who spells it the way my cousin does, but I think I manually just typed that in. Jennifer, thank you for your question. So I'm not a doctor, just not a doctor. And I would say, you know, for everything, work with your doctor, especially when if you have, you know, a condition like that with the scarring. I can just tell you what I found in the literature about fasting and kidney disease. And there are quite a few studies. So for example, I found one called Effects of Ramadan Fasting on Moderate to Severe Chronic Kidney Disease. So this is 2017. It did look at Ramadan style fasting. So, you know, not eating during the daylight hours. This is people who actually have moderate to severe chronic kidney disease. Almost half of them had stage four, followed by stage three and then stage five. And it found that fasting was reasonably safe for them. There was another one called Safety of Fasting and Non-Diabetic Patients with Stable Chronic Kidney Disease during Ramadan. Again, the last one looked at 68 patients. 38 were diabetic, 28 were non-diabetic. The majority were stage three and followed by stage four and then stage... Oh, sorry. The majority were stage three A followed by stage four, followed by stage three B, then stage two, then stage five. They actually saw improvements in... So for fasting, it improved blood pressure, improved creatine levels and uric acid levels for all of the patients. And their conclusion was that they saw no worsening of renal functions in both diabetic and non-diabetic patients with stables, chronic kidney disease who intended to fast. That was the takeaway of like the studies I was finding. So I would basically say, I would just monitor everything. I would, you know, do the fasting, but hopefully you're working with a doctor, especially having that condition and monitoring all the things for your kidney performance, your kidney levels. I would just really keep an eye on it and work with a doctor. Do you have thoughts?
Barry Conrad
I, as well, I'm not a doctor, but from my understanding, I would say, from what I know, the higher your glomerular filtration rate is, the better your kidneys are at filtering. And since your kidney damage isn't related to diabetes, that's a positive, but yeah, as Mel said, I'd strongly just encourage you to talk with your nephrologist about how fasting fits into your situation. Safety first, Jennifer, safety first.
Melanie Avalon
All right, is it time to hypothetically in our minds maybe break our fast?
Barry Conrad
I think it's time it's different time i'm ready.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so do you have a restaurant for us, Barry Conrad?
Barry Conrad
I do have a restaurant, so this week's restaurant is Antoine's Restaurant in New Orleans, Louisiana. The reason why I chose this restaurant, a few reasons, it was established in 1840, which makes it one of the oldest family-run restaurants in the US. It's known for its delicious French Creole cuisine, and it introduced the famous Oysters Rockefeller in 1889. It features 14 unique dining rooms, 14 rooms, each with its own vibe and
Melanie Avalon
14. Wait, I'm trying to envision that. That's so many rooms.
Barry Conrad
It's so many rooms with a different vibe, so I know you'd appreciate that one, Mel, and it's hosted notable figures like Winston Churchill, Frank Sinatra, and LBJ, Lyndon B. Johnson, the 36th president of the United States, so it's a cornerstone of New Orleans, blending history, hospitality, and exceptional food, so I'm so ready.
Melanie Avalon
I forgot, have you been to New Orleans?
Barry Conrad
I have once before and I loved it. Have you been? No. It's so vibrant.
Melanie Avalon
I know. I'm annoyed that I didn't go for Taylor's last concert. Why didn't you go? I think I had so much like trauma from trying to get tickets to the first one, which was the most amazing night of my life. But I was like, I don't know if I can go through this again.
Barry Conrad
What do you mean? What happened?
Melanie Avalon
I was there for the, remember the whole Ticketmaster fiasco.
Barry Conrad
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I've told you that, right? You have. Six hours. I was actually podcasting for this show. I woke up early for me like 8 a.m. That is like so early for me. The stress, I know it doesn't sound, it's complete first world problems, but the stress of being in a Ticketmaster queue for six hours and it looks frozen and not knowing if you should refresh the window or not. So like six hours of like wondering should I refresh the window because it seems frozen. But then people are like, no, if you refresh the window, you'll lose your place in line. It was being sleep deprived. And then I had a podcast at the same time.
Barry Conrad
So you were like not, like you probably would have been in two minds, like you podcast you, but you're thinking about this window that, do I not refresh it?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yes. Because you know when you're debating a decision to make, it's stressful anyways if you just don't know what to do. And then the urgency of meeting these tickets. And then six hours is a long time, Barry. It's a long time to be worried about, be stressed about that.
Barry Conrad
Can you tell us what happened at the very end? Did you leave the window or did you refresh it?
Melanie Avalon
I did not refresh it. Yeah, my sister-in-law was mostly was like don't refresh. She was like Twitter was saying don't I don't know I was recording with Cynthia. I told her I think it was Cynthia Yeah, I think Cynthia was my co-host at the time and I was like listen I was like if this goes through I have to I have to stop Yeah, it was Cynthia because so then and then I got in like mid podcast recording and I was like stop And then I was like in this panic frenzy of Because I should have bought six tickets, which was the max but I bought two
Barry Conrad
Should've bought 6 tickets, why?
Melanie Avalon
Because people were reselling them for like I would have made bank
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's a good call.
Melanie Avalon
But yeah, that didn't occur to me.
Barry Conrad
You know she's going to tour. She's probably going to tour again soon, right? I'm guessing she has another surprise.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but will it be the Aeros tour though? She should do, oh yeah, she should do surprise Aeros tour again, part two.
Barry Conrad
Maybe I'd like to go to a show with you just to see you lose your mind to Taylor Swift.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so we're there for dinner. What would you get for your... Oh, I have an idea because we were trying to figure out the terminology. Maybe we should just read the terminology on the menu.
Barry Conrad
Okay, let's just do that. Let's say what they have there. Let's do that.
Melanie Avalon
Like because the beginning, well, I guess we can clarify, but so the beginning is appetizers and oysters as a category and then soup and salads. So yeah, what would you get?
Barry Conrad
OK, I'm going to say I've got to go because, you know, they I said before they famously introduced the oysters Rockefeller. So I'm going to that's going to be one of them. The oysters Rockefeller. The I love my potatoes. I'm going to go souffle potatoes. And then because I have been to New Orleans once before and I love the gumbo. I've got to do the seafood gumbo. That's my jam. So those three. Should we read the descriptions? Yeah, I think we should. So the oysters Rockefeller, it's baked with a Rockefeller sauce created in 1899 by second generation chef and proprietor Jules Alcator. The souffle potatoes are classic fried puff potatoes with bérené sauce. And the seafood gumbo is Gulf shrimp, oysters, lump crab meat, blue crab and shrimp stock. Trinity, okra and filet. It's going down. Party in my tummy. It's happening.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know what that filet is because it's spelled F-I-L-E. Yeah, that's yeah, it's not like a steak filet.
Barry Conrad
So it's a French term for a boneless cut of meat or fish. So it is, there we go. In this case, it refers to a piece of meat often from fish or beef that's prepared with our bones.
Melanie Avalon
So it's probably fish. Well, Barry, we've talked, but we haven't talked talked since I had my oysters again.
Barry Conrad
Oh, here we go. Let's hear it. Let's hear the grief.
Melanie Avalon
Can I tell you something? I posted. Are you in our Facebook group?
Barry Conrad
You know what i'm embarrassing you know i need to join the facebook group cuz that's really bad do you get on facebook i definitely will have to more now cuz i'm the new course but yeah i'm jumping in the group now as we speak.
Melanie Avalon
Well, you should jump in and you should see the post I posted. I posted a post of the oysters that I had at a Michelin-starred restaurant here called Spring, shout out. And I posted and I was like, I got these oysters and I just don't like oysters. And I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but I was like, does anybody else have this experience? Because basically, I don't understand why I don't like them because they are so nutritious, I should like them. So there's something going on here. There's a reason they don't taste good to people, I think. Maybe we're not supposed to eat them. Regardless, the amount of comments this post got was insane. And I got a lot of backup. People don't like oysters.
Barry Conrad
The people out there, all of you listeners who are backing up, Melanie, no, it's not. Oysters are so good, they're so delicious. How can you say that?
Melanie Avalon
Well, because so I got it completely plain, like no, nothing on it, because people were like, Oh, well, you need like the olive oil or the lemon. But also I got supported when I went. I actually so I went with my sister my previously mentioned cousin Jennifer and our friend Conrad, who is a he's actually the bar manager at another Michelin restaurant here called Lazy Betty. And he came to my defense, because everybody at the table was saying that I needed to put stuff on them to make them taste better. And I was like, No, because intuitively, if I like it, I should like it without other stuff. And Conrad said this is true. Oh, my gosh, I just realized his name is Conrad. And your last name is Conrad. That's confusing.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that is confusing.
Melanie Avalon
whoa okay it literally tasted like everything bad about the sea like not the good like okay like my spirulina is like take the good from the sea and like yummy this is like everything bad about the sea like in a bite i literally took one bite and i was like done and it was a massive oyster it was massive
Barry Conrad
Did you approach it with like mentally thinking it's going to be disgusting like
Melanie Avalon
No, because I think I should like them. I really do. And I love like raw meat. I love seafood. So I was like, I'm gonna love this oyster. This is gonna be great. I am here for this. And then I...
Barry Conrad
No, you know what? We're gonna change that. We're gonna have oysters together. Are we gonna have good ones? No. Yes. It's gonna be great.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you know what for you here at Antoine's I will get this is the last time I'm trying oysters though So if this doesn't work then I'm piecing out From the oyster from the oyster thing. I'll get let me look at the oyster options I'll also get the Rockefeller, but I want everything on the side
Barry Conrad
So you don't want any of those, okay, okay, you don't want any toppings. You want it on the side. All right, that tracks.
Melanie Avalon
and I think I'm good. I don't think I want anything else.
Barry Conrad
Just that? Yeah. You're going to have a Rockefeller for dessert as well? Okay, hopefully not.
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm not.
Barry Conrad
Like one recommend.
Melanie Avalon
I'll tell them, I'll be like, and by the way, you don't have to reserve any oysters for dessert because I'm not going to want any more. Maybe I'll like it. I'm open-minded.
Barry Conrad
I think you know what? I have hope. I have faith it's going to work. It's going to happen. There'll be a day where you'll try and be like, this is where it's at. It's really good.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know. Three times I've done... No, twice. Three times? I think I've had oysters. Two or three. Every time I've done this. Maybe two. Maybe two. I think I've had it three times though, I'm pretty sure. And it's the same experience every time. It's like the seed vomited in my mouth.
Barry Conrad
That's so rude.
Melanie Avalon
I'm upsetting you, very upset.
Barry Conrad
I'm actually sitting here shaking my head, I can't believe she said that. Anyway, moving on to the next category.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, okay, I'll redeem myself, I promise.
Barry Conrad
We have classic entrees and Louisiana seafood together so that's I'm guessing that's our main situation and there are dinner add-ons the scallops done that too well how about how about you go first this time.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, let me look. I would like to get two entrees because this is my one meal a day, so I need a lot of food. Oh wait, maybe I can get one of the entrees for my dessert. Okay, that's what I'm going to do. So I'm going to tell them ahead of time to have another one ready because I'm going to order it for dessert. So for my entree, entree, I'm going to get the veal chop. The veal chop royal, which is boiled veal chop, lemon, saffron butter, and roasted ancient grains. I'm going to modify that. See, this is also good because I can teach listeners how to modify things. I'm going to say, can I get it cooked rare? Can I get everything on the side? I don't want butter. Actually, they can put the lemon, saffron butter on the side. I might try it. I don't want any grains. Do they have sauteed steam spinach? And if not, that's fine. They can just not give me anything. Unless do you want the ancient grains?
Barry Conrad
I'll have the greens. Yeah, we don't want to waste it. There, you'll have them. I feel like this is going to happen for real when we eat. You know you're going to be passing up.
Melanie Avalon
We're gonna be so good at ordering when we actually go eat. It's gonna be like we've eaten together like 50 times.
Barry Conrad
She'll have the, she's gone to the restroom, but she's going to have that and you'll come back. Oh, that's exactly what I wanted. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, what are you getting?
Barry Conrad
Okay, again, it's, I'm with you. It's my one meal a day vibe. So I'm going to go lamb chops to start for sure. Like to say to start lamb chops. And then I'm going to go the classic fish, Amandine, that looks delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you are getting two entrees, then I'm going to get two entrees too.
Barry Conrad
Well, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, great.
Barry Conrad
I don't know if it's a copy of it.
Melanie Avalon
No, I wanted to, but I was saving one for dessert. I think I should have it now because then I can get more food.
Barry Conrad
You can get more food and you can always, you know, if you don't finish it, I'll finish it.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, perfect. Okay. Are you getting them the way they're prepared?
Barry Conrad
just the way they prepared. I'm going all in. So I don't, unless I'm preparing for something or not, I won't really modify anything, as Melanie likes to do. So I'll probably just smash it the way it is and experience it in its fullness for now.
Melanie Avalon
For the almondine, so fresh local goldfish, light breading, toasted almonds, brown butter, onion rice, fresh lemon drizzle. Are you going to add sauteed lump crab meat? Which it suggests.
Barry Conrad
You know what, I'm going to add that and I'm also going to, because it's an add-on, have some bronze garlic scallops as well. It's going to be massive. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
What was the other one that you were getting you said to blam shot?
Barry Conrad
The land shops with port demi glaze which is grilled lamb chop lollipops rosemary fingerling potatoes and port demi glaze that sounds so good.
Melanie Avalon
How are you getting it prepared? What temperature?
Barry Conrad
I don't want it to be overdone, so I want it to be pretty... How would you ask for it? I don't know how to ask for things over there temperature-wise. How do you guys say it?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I'm I asked for blue.
Barry Conrad
Well, I'm not going to blue it. That's going to be medium rare.
Melanie Avalon
Medium rare is pretty safe. If you're at a nice place medium rare safe, if you're at like a fancy place, you could maybe get medium, you know, if you insist, but medium rare is probably good. If you're at a fast casual type place, I would honestly, I would order rare, but medium rare, rare, like emphasize the rare.
Barry Conrad
and listeners as well. I'm not going to leave out the creamed spinach when you see the link to this menu, you know what I mean. So I'm going to add some creamed spinach on the side.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, so they do have spinach, so that means they can do steam spinach for me.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, on the sides, this is asparagus you can probably ask for steamed as well.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, this is true. I have to add in my other entree, which is the Speckled Trout St. Louis, which is Golden Fried Trout Filet Crawfish and Artichoke Saute, Mounier Butter and Creamy Herbed Rice. Okay, we're modifying that. I want it.
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow.
Melanie Avalon
By the way, I'm like saying this very like forceful right now, but I'm very nice to the white staff. I don't, I'm not in their face about it. I'm very kind.
Barry Conrad
Can you give me a demo of how you would do it like if I just came over so
Melanie Avalon
How would you, are you ready to order? I will, I will next week.
Barry Conrad
It's like I'm putting you on the spot like, okay, tell me how you would do it because I really want to hear it I'm sure the listeners want to
Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna do it in character next week. But yeah, so this one, not fried, I would like it just baked or steamed, baked or grilled with no, like no seed oils, no oil, just give me the fish. If they insist that there has to be a little oil, then a tiny bit of olive oil, but I have faith that maybe they can do it without it. And then I'll just see if they can do it with steamed spinach again.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. Okay, that sounds good
Melanie Avalon
Then are you getting a dessert?
Barry Conrad
I am going to get a dessert, but before that, I'm going to get, yeah, let's do desserts first. I'm going to go to a drink. Dessert, I'm going to go, oh, a couple things, here we go. You're probably going to guess. I'm going to get two. You can probably guess which two. I'm going to go the flour-salted caramel chocolate torte, which is candied pecans, salted caramel and merengue crown, and then I'm also going to get the creme brulee, which I just love. It's one of my favorite desserts, those two.
Melanie Avalon
I was very close. I was going to say you were going to do the chocolate torte and then either the bread pudding or the creme brulee. I wasn't sure which one, but then I was leaning towards creme brulee for you. They also baked Alaska though. Did you see that? I've actually never tried that. I haven't either. It's not the one that's like on fire. Yeah. Or they like fire it up. Is it on fire or are they just like...
Barry Conrad
Like maybe they're just like to use the blowtorch, you know, the thing.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they blowtorch it. Yeah, you have to order that at the beginning of the meal. You know what they should do? They should put that note at the top of the menu.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. They should actually. I could just picture you going. Can I have the baked Alaska? Can we just have the fire on the side? Just hold the fire. Hold the fire.
Melanie Avalon
Hold the fire, I can't do the A-G-E's or the H-C-A's, whatever they are, the amines.
Barry Conrad
What about you? Dessert.
Melanie Avalon
I might get a...
Barry Conrad
us. Maybe another oyster, Runkafella? Nope.
Melanie Avalon
Scallops. I'll get scallops for dessert. That's it. Well, I already had two entrees The bronze garlic scallops and they can actually keep the garlic. I like garlic Although I don't like garlic breath. So maybe not
Barry Conrad
It's alright, you can just sit on your side of the table and you can have a mint or something.
Melanie Avalon
I have a complex around, I have some PTSD surrounding garlic breath. I can't do garlic. I'm public. What do you mean? Because of a comment somebody made to me once.
Barry Conrad
What do they say?
Melanie Avalon
I went on a date with a guy and then he tried to kiss me at the, this is like a first date and they tried to kiss me at the end, which I don't kiss on the first date. You don't? There might be exceptions, but usually no, usually no. And so I declined politely. And then later he said, you had garlic earlier, didn't you? And I was like, I was mortified. And then he said, no, you should take it as a compliment that I still wanted to kiss you. And I was like, I just, the amount of it mortified, like that to this day, I'm like, so it's cause I had gone through, I like discovered garlic. I mean, it had it before, but I discovered how amazing it was. And I had gone to town on garlic like the day before. What a joke.
Barry Conrad
What's that guy? Bro, who says that?
Melanie Avalon
He did, and yeah, he does.
Barry Conrad
Like a backhanded compliment like, you know, you should be flattered. I wanted to kiss you. It's like, God, thanks, bro.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So to this day, I like can't, if I'm going to be in a social setting, I just, I got to work on that with my therapist probably, but yeah.
Barry Conrad
Are you going to talk to me with your hand in front of your mouth, are you going to do that from across the table while you're eating?
Melanie Avalon
Just not gonna eat garlic. Oh, but you mean like a little bit like when I'm talking a little bit Yeah, I do do that a little bit. Yes
Barry Conrad
I can actually fix you do I think we've met motto talked about this about dates.
Melanie Avalon
We did. Yeah, I don't want to like I occasionally cover my mouth not while talking I wouldn't talk me eating at the same time, but occasionally like while I'm chewing cover my mouth I don't look away though. Well, like don't look at me. I don't make you not look at me Don't look Okay
Barry Conrad
That's so bad. Okay, should we go to a drink? Do you want something to drink? What would you like to...
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yes, I don't see, I don't see any wines on here that I can do. Really? I'm not sure. I don't think so. This is where I'd have to bring my own wine, I think, to this restaurant.
Barry Conrad
You can scan the, I don't know if you can be bothered if we have time, there's a QR code to see the complete list, but that could be time-consuming.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, for like the bottles. Oh, you know what? Yeah, no. Everything by the glass. I don't see any organic, low sugar, European wine. So I would look at the bottle list and look for that. Otherwise, I'm sure they have a cork policy. I could bring a bottle. How about you?
Barry Conrad
Well, a couple of things. I'm going to get a bottle of the Chablis because that would just pair really well with the style of cuisine that we have. And then I will get a Mardi Gras Mambo cocktail, which is Casamigos Blanco, blue curacao, lime juice, and orange juice. And that's a cocktail for all of you listening.
Melanie Avalon
So you know what? I could maybe I could do that. So it is organic that Chubley is, I don't know the ABV, but I would get that. It's a French white, as long as it's not like too sweet. So awesome. Thanks for picking this one. Oh, gift shop. There's a gift shop.
Barry Conrad
Are we going to do the thing where if there's like an alternative thing like a gift shop you have to choose a gift as well or are we just going to stick to the food. We could go on forever if we do that let's stick to the food otherwise you could be here online shopping going through every category.
Melanie Avalon
I could get a wine glass. If it was like a really amazing experience and I wanted to remember this place, which I'm sure I would, I mean, it looks amazing. I think I would get a wine glass.
Barry Conrad
A vino set. A go vino set of four. That looks pretty good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, this was fun.
Barry Conrad
I feel like satisfied just even ordering the food even though i haven't eaten it like thinking about it right now.
Melanie Avalon
I do too, because we're all about fasting and feasting, even if you're crazy like me with ordering. But I really, I feel like this is going to help people, they're going to learn like how to order. But you know, because I think people get intimidated, not how to order because you can totally order like the way Barry orders, but if you have dietary restrictions or want to make adjustments, you can. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Barry Conrad
what do you mean the way Barry orders? I don't just have anything. It's just like, if I want to change it, you know, I will change it. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
There are two different types of order.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And there's no shame in changing order as well. It's just the way you do it, right, Mel? Exactly.
Melanie Avalon
I'll do it in character next time. Well, this was so fun. Listeners, definitely send us your questions. You can directly email questions at ifodcast.com, or you can go to ifodcast.com and submit questions there. The show notes will have links to everything that we talked about, and they will also have a full transcript. So that will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 411. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is berry underscore Conrad, and we are IF Podcast. And yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thanks so much for tuning in everyone and we'll talk to you next week.
Melanie Avalon
All right, talk to you next week. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intramusian Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recon host by Steve Saunders. See you next week.