Welcome to Episode 429 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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Common and divergent molecular mechanisms of fasting and ketogenic diets
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 429 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 429 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing great. I'm doing really, really good today.
It's an amazing day here in Sydney, counting down the days before I leave, actually, soon-ish. And yeah, just in work mode at the moment. Actually, very excited to be having my first chef on my show Banter with BC, which I'm so excited about.
Melanie Avalon
That's cool!
Barry Conrad
It is really cool what type of restaurant so basically you know listen as you know like we love food and we love celebrating the fast and the feast and so to have a chef on the show is gonna be awesome so. This guy his name is Mitch or he's like he's known as like the prince of pasta here in Australia like he's just done so much he's. Has like international experience like that the stereo Francesca in Italy is a one awards is a master chef like he's like it. Big deal some super excited to have him on the show and talk about food and just kind of get into a chef's brain I've actually never done anything like that before so should be fun I can't wait.
Melanie Avalon
That's so exciting. That's so fun. Are you like, how do you how do you prep for that show, by the way?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so basically, like all research on the guests and whatnot, so I can ask them interesting questions. But then we have a couple fun segments to kind of bookmark it.
But yeah, definitely. If they have something that they want to talk about specifically, we make sure that we focus more on that. But yeah, just do a deep dive. I spent like an afternoon or evening just going in and just researching as much as I can, probably much like you do, Mel, for guests on the Melanie Avalon podcast, you know, and and focus on the things that they want to talk about.
Melanie Avalon
Have you been to any of his restaurants?
Barry Conrad
I haven't yet, but that has to change. I mean, this is very, as I'm sure you know as well, like trying to get guests sometimes it's like touch and go like, can you, can't you, are you available? And then it like just happened. So haven't gone to his restaurant yet, but that's going to change.
Have to taste his cooking. But the restaurant that we have banter with BC at, I was kind of nervous. Like, is this nerve-wracking to have a chef come to your restaurant? You know what I mean? So I gave them as much notice as I could, so they could be like, okay, make sure that we get our, get our stuff together. They don't have to cause they're amazing anyway, but I'm excited just to, I don't know, dive into someone's brain who just deals with food all the time. And just how he, he said the only thing he doesn't eat is raw crustaceans, but he kind of eats everything. So yeah, it'd be interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Interesting but raw crustacean. So does he think that that's the one thing that you're most likely to get a problem from like get something from?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, I'll ask him why, like... Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Ask him that. Oh, let's brainstorm. Let's go with questions now.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, for real. So I think, yeah, I'm just actually really, really excited about that, because it's just something different, because usually it's actors and musicians and TV hosts and more front facing people.
So to have a chef, so excited.
Melanie Avalon
So cool. Well, congrats. We will put a link in the show notes to the show so people can watch.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And see all the food and him talk about the food and, and Mel, if you have any questions that you think could be interesting, actually for real, let me know.
Cause that could be something I could ask him.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like, man, so many things. I would need to like look more at his, like his restaurants and everything. Actually, this is a big question I would have for chefs in general, especially if they're like at nice restaurants. How do you accommodate having these meals and these entrees and these recipes?
And also, because at the nicer restaurants, you know, they tend to get the food fresh. So how do you, like, what if they don't have what you need to make the meals that you want to make? Like, so how do you, basically, how do you plan? How do you plan both ingredient sourcing to align with your meals? And does the ingredient availability like inform how like the recipes that you create? It's like, how do you deal with that? Because it's like also a business, you know, it's not just
Barry Conrad
He's also, that's a really good question. He's actually known for fusing like Italian pasta techniques with Japanese and Southeast Asian flavors. So it's really unique, especially for someone that's from Australia.
So emphasizing umami sort of like rich dishes. So it sounds delicious, actually. I can't wait to taste this stuff.
Melanie Avalon
You should ask him if he does intermittent fasting.
Barry Conrad
I'll ask him for sure, because he probably does a lot of people that do as well.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh my goodness. Congrats.
Barry Conrad
Thanks.
Melanie Avalon
How are you doing? Can I tell you a quick fun fact about chefs? Go ahead. Would you believe one time I kissed a chef on reality television? Did you really? Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Okay, tell me more. I need to know. And how have I not heard the story yet?
Melanie Avalon
I don't know. I haven't thought about this in years. I, uh, there was this show, it was called knife fight. Knife fight, I think, or food fight kitchen. I don't, okay. I think it was called one of those and then it switched to the other. I'm not sure. It was on one of the like food related networks. I think it basically was like a competition with two chefs that had to like, we're given ingredients and then they had to, you know, they had certain, it was like an hour and they had to like make the ingredients and then it was always like celebrity judges. So like Elijah Wood was like on it and stuff like that. I was on it a few times because like the way it set up is that it's at a restaurant. So I was like one of the people at the restaurant. One of the times they did it, they, I don't know, the chef that lost, they were like as a consolation prize, you can, oh, right, right, right. Okay. The, the chef that lost, if he lost, he was going to have to shave his beard because he had a beard and so he lost and they shaved his beard and then they were like, we'll find like a pretty girl to kiss you or something. And they're like, does anybody want to kiss him? And I was like, I'll do it.
Barry Conrad
And you just did it, you volunteered to do it?
Melanie Avalon
And it was on TV and then we went on a date.
Barry Conrad
That's hilarious. That's so funny. Is there is there footage of this situation? I need to see it.
Melanie Avalon
Probably, if we can find that episode. I think, oh, you know what?
I think on my Instagram, if you scroll way back, because they kept it, because I always use this like peppermint breath spray. So they kept in the show, I like spray some breath spray in my mouth and then kissed him.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny, Melanie. That's hilarious. It's just something that I thought that you would do. Isn't that funny? No, I know.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'll do it. I'll yeah, I'm like very, very like, I like doing stuff like that, like, just ran. I like like in life, like having moments that are, you know, why not? You only live once.
Barry Conrad
It's like the moment that you had when you- is it the magic mic show and you got the dance situation?
Melanie Avalon
That was that was your guys. That was Australia's the Australian magic men. They're from Australia. They're your people.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Was that fun? Did you like that?
Melanie Avalon
It was so fun, yeah, I went on stage. I was like, this is way more acrobatic than I thought it was gonna be.
Barry Conrad
Well, you thought it was going to be all, like, just, you know, jar rating and stuff.
Melanie Avalon
know what I thought. I don't know what I thought. Yeah, I thought it was going to be me sitting on a chair and things happening around me. I didn't realize it was immersive.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, that's, that was my visual. I thought that's why I thought, whoa, Mel, that's like hectic. So they weren't doing that. I'm picturing like.
Melanie Avalon
They you said they were doing that
Barry Conrad
I thought like you sitting in a chair and they were like, you know, grinding and like, you know, sexy dancing.
Melanie Avalon
like a lap dance or something. No, this is like, basically they, it's crazy. If friends go to my Instagram, it's a pinned, it's a pinned video, you can watch it. And I edited that to make it appropriate.
But basically when you're off stage, they're like, they're like, just, they're like, don't, they're like, just do, don't do anything. They're like, just let them lead you. And it's very talented because they literally make it look like you're involved in this whole thing and you're not doing anything. They're just whipping you around to the music. I think it requires a lot of talent. Don't think about it to like have all these drunk girls like, and like make it actually look, make it look good on stage. Who have no idea what's about to happen.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny and also I'm going to try to find that what is that the kitchen, whatever it is, I'll try to find it.
Melanie Avalon
It was called knife fight. It was on the Esquire network. Oh, guess what, very what? It's on Amazon Prime. What?
Barry Conrad
This is so funny and also great.
Melanie Avalon
And you would like it. It's like your type of show, you know, it's like food and stuff and the judges, okay, it's like judges, they have was like Elijah Wood, Drew Barrymore.
I don't remember who the judge was when I did it.
Barry Conrad
Okay, I'm checking it out.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I found the episode. Let's see. It was episode 8.
Barry Conrad
OK, I'm going to write that down so I can I'm actually going to look at it.
Melanie Avalon
Everybody go watch Episode 8 of Knifite on Amazon Prime.
Barry Conrad
Wow. Did you get a lot of like, did your friends and stuff in your family go, Melanie, what was the reaction when they saw it?
Melanie Avalon
That was the time of my life where I don't think anybody, I don't think any of my family saw it, but that was the time of my life where I was just doing random like crazy stuff like that, like all the time. So I don't think anything would have surprised them at that point in time.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny. Well, thanks for the find, Mel.
Melanie Avalon
I know, I know. Oh man, I just remember though, that show, you had to stand there for like hours. Cause it was rough and it was hot and it was, but it was fun.
Barry Conrad
in the restaurant? How was the food? Do you remember how good the food was or not really?
Melanie Avalon
you don't get to eat any of it, you're just watching. I did it like two or three times, and one time the girl next to me fainted. I was like, oh, that's not good.
Hydrate. Hydrate. Stay hydrated. But yeah. Also, one quick thing before we jump into fasting-related things, or maybe I'll save it. Okay, I have a surprise for you. I'll save it until after we do some fasting-related stuff.
Barry Conrad
a surprise. Okay. I'm excited.
Melanie Avalon
Congrats on the chef and let me know how it goes. I'm excited for you. I definitely will. Are you gonna kiss him?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think that'd be really great. Imagine that.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like I just got inspired by my co-host.
Barry Conrad
Are you down, bro? Is that okay?
Melanie Avalon
Or you gotta find a pretty girl to kiss him. That would be more in the character. Like a random patron at the restaurant.
Barry Conrad
You know, Melanie has this thing, listeners wish, she just thinks, was it you that said this way? Like you just think Australia is just like, you know, everyone's just happy and everyone's, you know, good looking and they were just gregarious, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Like when I think Australia, I think like hot temperature wise, but hot people to like attractive people like out in the sun who are super nice and drinking a lot and like looking at kangaroos.
Barry Conrad
which I think, yeah, it's not quite like that, but I think, you know, not completely wrong.
Melanie Avalon
I believe it. Okay, would you like some fasting-related content?
Barry Conrad
I'd love that. Let's go.
Melanie Avalon
So I have a study to start things off and it is called common and divergent molecular mechanisms of fasting and ketogenic diets. So this was published February 2024 in Trends in Endocrinology and Metabolism. And what I thought was so interesting was this is a study that actually, we talk a lot about intermittent fasting on this show. And we also talk a lot about like ketogenic diets and we talk about being in ketosis. And we know that both of those have a lot of effects. And I think a lot of times they get lumped together as one thing or like one concept. So this study actually looked at the differences between them.
So basically it says that intermittent fasting and keto diets. So a ketogenic diet would be when you're eating super, super low carb intake that actually puts you into a state of ketosis. Whereas fasting puts you into a state of ketosis during the fast, but you don't necessarily have to be eating low carb when you eat. So with intermittent fasting, you're not necessarily always in ketosis. With a ketogenic diet, you would always be in ketosis and you could combine them. So you could do like a keto diet and intermittent fasting at the same time and then that would always be in ketosis the whole time. So basically they say that they have overlapping but not identical effects on cell metabolism, function and resilience.
So they have a lot of beneficial effects that are very similar, but not quite the same. So for ketogenic diets, the majority of the health benefits are actually coming from the ketone bodies. So speaking of being in ketosis, when you go into ketosis, you create this alternative source of fuel for your body because normally we burn carbs for fuel, which is like blood sugar. We burn carbs from the food that we eat and we burn fat from the food fat stores and we can burn glucose from our carb stores. Those are typically our two options for fuel. When you go into fasting or doing a keto diet, your body actually starts creating these things called ketones, which are a very clean burning source of fuel that is very, like the body runs really well on it and it can actually fuel the brain. That's the main reason that we create it because the brain requires a lot of glucose. So when we're burning fat, the brain doesn't have this glucose. So it compensates by creating ketones that it can burn and those can actually meet up to, they'll say up to like 80% of the brain's needs can be met by ketones. It still does need some glucose always though. So you can actually just produce that from protein. So that's what happens when you're on a keto diet. Your body fills in the glucose need, the blood sugar, sorry, the sugar need for your brain by creating it itself from protein. And so these ketone bodies themselves, not only are they a source of fuel, but they're actually signaling molecules that have a lot of beneficial effects. So they do things like reduce oxidative stress. So just the very nature of them. They improve the mitochondria's efficiency and the mitochondria are the powerhouse, the part of the cell that actually creates energy. So they improve the mitochondria, which is amazing.
Melanie Avalon
And they inhibit histone deacetylases, and they control inflammation. So basically, this is saying that the keto diet, those are the main ways that we get the benefits from ketosis from a keto diet.
Compared to fasting, the main ways we get the benefits are autophagy, which is something that we talk about a lot. So that's where your body actually goes into your body and breaks down old proteins that need to be recycled. It recycles them and makes them anew. So it kind of cleans out your body and just makes everything work better. So you could get autophagy on a keto diet, but not necessarily as much because you might be eating more constantly. And autophagy tends to really ramp up in the fasted state. So autophagy is the main way that we get the benefits from fasting.
Increased insulin and leptin sensitivity. So insulin sensitivity, that helps with your blood sugar control and helping with how you utilize your fuel. And then leptin sensitivity. Leptin is a satiety hormone. Basically, when it goes up, you feel full. If you get desensitized to leptin, then you just never feel full. So fasting helps you be sensitized to it. So you actually feel full, which is great.
Fasting activates AMPK. We talk about that a lot in this show. It's a metabolic pathway in the body that is really only activated in a state of fuel deprivation, fasting, things like that. And it instigates a lot of processes in the body that support longevity, support cellular cleanup. It's just really great state to be in.
So that's pretty specific to fasting. And then it inhibits mTOR, which is the opposite of AMPK. So that makes sense, that goes together. So if AMPK is the state where you don't have fuel and you're recycling and you're supporting longevity pathways, mTOR is the state of growth. And that's what happens when we eat. That's when we build muscle. That's when we repair. So we repair actually in both states. So that's mTOR. And then so fasting also helps mitochondria resilience. So there's a little bit of overlap with the keto diet. I guess it just makes mitochondria, those powerhouses of our cells, be resilient. So work better in the faces of stressors and toxins because we are awash in those today. And then it also suppresses oxidative stress and inflammation, which was similar to a keto diet.
So it looks like the overlap there out of those things I listed was they both reduce oxidative stress, they both reduce inflammation, they both help the mitochondria. But things specific to fasting would be like that AMPK state, that autophagy, that reduction of mTOR. And then something more specific to keto diet would be like the inhibition of histone deacetylases. So those are enzymes that are involved in gene expression. So it's having basically an effect on the genetic level. By inhibiting those histones, there's been studies showing that it can help things like cancer and neurological disorders and inflammatory diseases. So that's the one that seems really unique to the keto diet.
Melanie Avalon
But what's really interesting is what they concluded at the end was they say, I just find this really interesting, frequent switching between ketogenic and non-ketogenic states may optimize health by increasing stress resistance, while also enhancing cell plasticity and functionality. So basically, the takeaway that they've come to with this is that maybe you being in a ketogenic state all the time, 24 seven would not be the way to get the maximum benefits when it comes to health because you're going to get some things when you're not in that ketogenic state.
So they're suggesting that having states of ketogenicness and non-ketogenicness, which you can get with fasting, that's the reason I love fasting is because then you can get that ketogenic state during the fast and then not while you're eating, that actually may be better to optimize your health, help with your stress resistance, help with your cells function. So yeah, that's that study, that was a lot. Do you have thought?
Barry Conrad
It was super interesting Melanie. What an amazing study you found.
It's so interesting that you chose this this week because I was actually just talking to again someone that I had on banter with BC and he's an actor and he was talking Dan McPherson and we were talking we were geeking out about nutrition and things like that and he was saying what works best for his body is fasting and keto combining the two so he yeah he was we were talking about you know what what do you follow to keep yourself in shape and he said actually my way of eating keto is the best for me like I've had to really pull back on carbs and so just like the fact that the ketones enhance that cognitive function it helps to preserve muscle as well so I feel like you know so it was really interesting and for me even based on one of our past conversations we talked about keto and me maybe experimenting but more with it I actually have consciously been doing that like on and off like alternate day more like super low carb kind of like kind of a bikido and then going back to kind of my regular which is still isn't really high carb and it's it is really interesting and I feel like yeah I've definitely see benefits and I feel better throughout the day so yeah combining the two even
Melanie Avalon
Well, what's, what's really interesting is so like combining would basically put you. Okay. How do I say this? So if you combine them, you're actually going to not, you might not get, well, I guess you would wait, let me think about this because basically by switching out of the keto state with fasting, you're getting these other benefits that you wouldn't get if you stayed constantly in the ketogenic state. Does that make sense?
So I feel like it goes both ways. Like I feel like on the one hand, you could have periods where you combine them and you probably might get even more benefits. And then at the same time, there is a benefit to not always being in the ketogenic state probably. So that's why there's this idea of they're saying like switching between the ketogenic and the non-ketogenic state to optimize health. What I find just really, really interesting about this though, is like I said, at the beginning, I feel like people just kind of really equate fasting with ketosis and being like, that's all the, all the benefits. So that's similar to a keto diet, but this is saying like, it's not like there's, it's similar, but there's, there's differences as well.
Barry Conrad
Like you were saying, this is an overlaps, but it's not actually the same, you know, is overlap, but it's not all the same.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. Because they say, for example, both ketogenic diets and fasting result in sustained ketosis. So both of them do have periods of being in ketosis, but fasting results in repeating cycles of mild ketosis. So you're having cycles of things. It's not quite as intense ketogenically as a ketogenic diet, but then at the same time, so I feel like, yeah, stacking them, you're probably going to get benefits from that as well.
It's really interesting.
Barry Conrad
But I think it's interesting what you said, Mel, about building resilience by the switching. And it made me think of just in general with a lot of diets or ways of eating, like even ADF or doing low or even carb cycling for people who train a lot. Like I feel like the body responds to not just being doing the same thing all of the time and to almost like, you know, shock the body or surprise it or just to make sense. Like you saying, like staying in that state all the time is not going to be as beneficial, but the switch is actually going to help build resilience. And do you know what I'm trying to say?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly, 100%. Basically, like we know that like, hormetic stress, so like a low amount of stress is a good thing.
And so switching in and out of these different states is actually, it's kind of like, I feel like exercise for the metabolism, you know, like it makes it more adaptable to going in and out of these states burning different fuel substrates, so you don't get pigeonholed into any one pathway or any one thing.
Barry Conrad
Oh, plateauing because of that too, you know, that's why sometimes people might not see the same the results that they want because they hit a plateau from doing the same thing and our bodies adjust and adapt really quickly, you know, like, so not all stresses bad stress, you know, and this is an example of that.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly.
Barry Conrad
Awesome study, Melanie!
Melanie Avalon
just one last thing to put a bow on it. The nice thing about fasting is that if you're not doing a keto diet while fasting, then it just automatically takes care of that. Then you automatically just will switch in and out of ketosis. You don't have to try to.
With a keto diet, it's like, okay, I have to try to get into ketosis by cutting my carbs. And you have to do that approach. But with fasting, if you just have a window, then you automatically will go on ketosis. And then if you're not eating keto diet for your food, you'll automatically go out. So it kind of just takes care of itself, if that makes sense.
Barry Conrad
It takes the thinking out of it.
Melanie Avalon
All right, shall we answer a listener question? Let's do it.
We have a question from Patty, and she says, my body tends to make a lot of cortisol. I was told that it's best to do shorter fast and that longer fast would create more cortisol. Is this true?
Barry Conrad
Okay, so hey, Patty, first off, thanks for your question. And especially because cortisol tends to, I think it gets a bad rapper. We were just talking about cortisol stress and everything. So I think this is worth unpacking a bit. Look, you're definitely, you're not a learner wondering about this. The whole, you know, fasting increases cortisol thing. You see it a lot online and while, I mean, there could be some true to it. It's not the whole picture. So with cortisol, it's your stress hormone, right? So it's not the villain though that it's made out to be.
So we actually need cortisol. It helps us wake up in the morning, keeps our energy stable, plays a role in in metabolism, the issue is when cortisol is chronically elevated. So that's when we start seeing, you know, poor sleep or fat retention, especially on the midsection or anxiety or burnout. But when it comes to fasting, yes, your body can release more cortisol, especially when you're doing those longer, longer fasts or under a lot of other, maybe emotional stress or physical stress. And yeah, fasting is a stressor and stress, like we just talked about, isn't inherently bad, it's actually a signal to the body to adapt. So that's something called homesis. So it's about balance. So for example, if your system's already tapped out and you throw in like a 36 or 48 hour fast into the mix, if you're already really tapped out, it might be a bit too much and push your cortisol high, but that's where shorter or daily fast come in handy and can actually be really smart. So for someone who like already tends to run high in cortisol, Patty, like doing something like a, like a 14, 10 or 16, eight, even like that kind of schedule could give you the benefits of fasting, better insulin sensitivity, improved digestion without overloading your system. Do you know what I mean? So you still get that break between meals, which helps your body reset. Also how you fast, I really think matters just as much as how long. So I'd ask, are you sleeping well? Are you hydrating? Are you breaking your fast for something nutrient dense, high in protein? All of those things, they really do influence the way your body handles stress, Patty. So you could technically be doing like a shorter fast, but if you're running on four hours of sleep and like chugging down coffees on an empty stomach and breaking your fast with like, let's say a pastry, that's going to spike your cortisol faster than if you, for example, did like a 24 hour fast in a calm, supported way. So to answer your question, yes, longer fast can increase cortisol, especially in someone who's already cortisol sensitive, but it's not, I don't think it's a hard rule that fasting is bad for cortisol. It's more about tuning in to what your body's saying. And if the shorter fast feel good now, that's valid. You can still get really good results for that. I mean, it should serve you at the end of the day. You know what I mean? I mean, I hope that helps. What do you think, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
You covered so much. That was absolutely amazing. Echo and agree with everything you said.
It's hard to know when she says shorter and longer. You know, that really requires a definition there. So what is shorter and longer? Is it shorter and longer within a day? So is it like you're looking at the difference between like a 14-hour fast versus an 18-hour fast, or is it you're looking at a daily fast versus a multi-day fast, which it's the longer fast like after a day where I think you're really going to start seeing, you know, much more cortisol release from the fast potentially where it might be too stressful for you? And like Barry was saying as well, it's very individual. It's very dependent on your personal cortisol levels and your body. I do think with women, it can be more of a problem than men as far as just putting the body into more of too much of a stressed out state. You can actually test your cortisol levels if you find a practitioner to work with. It's called the Dutch test. It's a urine test where you basically test, you basically take your urine at certain times all throughout the day, and then they actually can see your cortisol patterns, and they can see if you have a normal cortisol curve, what your levels are, because it's not even just the amount of levels, it's also the timing of it. So you might actually have normal cortisol levels, but it's not being released at the right times. Like you're, you know, you're getting it at night when you're supposed to be asleep, or you're not having it in the morning when it's very natural to release cortisol when you wake up. So basically, it's very individual. I would work with a practitioner to see where you're at with your levels, and then just do what feels right. I wouldn't be scared about fasting and cortisol. I would just be cognizant and aware of all the information. And, you know, if you're at all concerned, definitely stick within like shorter fast during the day is a good place to be. I don't like to say definitive numbers, but I'm prepping right now to interview Ben Greenfield for his book Boundless. And the reason I kind of not sighed, but I'm really excited because I've been following his work for like a decade and he's a legend. His book though, are you familiar with Ben Greenfield? I am, yeah. His book Boundless is so long, which is amazing, but I actually like read all the books. So the audio book is 41 hours.
Barry Conrad
What?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm basically just, and I didn't give myself enough time to prep it, so I'm basically just every second that I'm not doing something, I'm just listening to that book. But I bring it up, I bring it up because the section I just read, he was talking about this, and he recommends for women, like after 16 hours, he thinks they might have more issues with stress and fasting. So that's just what I read in his book.
Yeah, I think it's very individual. Okay, can I surprise you now? Yes, what is it? It will have already happened by the time this comes out, but I got us a new sponsor, and I think you'll think it's fun, and I want to know how you would engage with it if you were to do it.
Barry Conrad
Okay. Tell me, who is it?
Melanie Avalon
It's called mix tiles have you heard of them i think i.
Barry Conrad
I don't actually have a...
Melanie Avalon
Don't tell me they make your photos into like art for the like, you know, pictures and art for the wall, but it just sticks on the wall. Like it doesn't require nails. It doesn't mess up your walls.
And they have all of these different options and you can create like, like a, like a gallery type look, because it's like, you know, when you put up like a lot of pictures, kind of like, like, how do you say it? Like in a vibe, like, you know, like, like six or pictures or so, like in a, like on the wall, like in a square or like a design in a frame, like when people put like multiple pictures up.
Barry Conrad
like a collage sort of thing.
Melanie Avalon
Collage, yes, collage, like a gradient collage. So I was thinking it would be perfect for your in-between place because you wouldn't mess up the walls on your apartment.
Barry Conrad
That's awesome. What that's an amazing surprise and you're right because you kind of you don't want to jack up where you're staying By doing it because you don't have the time to anyway, but you don't want to mess up the place
Melanie Avalon
And so this makes it so easy. You like upload your photos and you, you know, you decide which gallery, like what situation there's your word that you want and they send it to you. And then you just put it on your wall.
And so my question for you is what would you, um, what would you put on your walls? Like what photos would you put if you were like to create like a collage of photos, what would you, what would be on Barry Conrad's wall?
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. Well, I feel like different.
The answer to that is different rooms would have different situations. So one would have more of a family type collage. The other one would have more of a work type collage. So like posters of shows I've done, things like that, or photos with people I've worked with. And then another one would be from like travel, I think like travel or travel collage of my favorite places.
Melanie Avalon
Nice!
Barry Conrad
Yeah, what would you do?
Melanie Avalon
I was thinking about it. There's so many things I want to do. What I really like is they have an option. So my walls are all white and I actually don't have... So on my walls, I'm looking around right now, I don't really have many things on my walls. A huge reason is because I don't want to deal with like the nails and like putting it up and all of that. So this is perfect for me.
But I do have on one of my walls, it's like a big white wall and all I have is this one white frame with like a quote. So it kind of like blends into the wall and they have an option where it's like all white. So I think I kind of want to do that where it's like, I would do like black and white photos, I think capturing like some moments from my life, some you know, treasured moments from my life and have like the white frame so it kind of like blends into the wall. That's what I'm envisioning.
That's what I think I'm going to do.
Barry Conrad
That sounds awesome actually, like just nice and clean, minimal, but still artistic.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, here's the thing, we just booked them right now. So I actually don't have the information yet about what the like offer is, but there should be an offer. And I'm assuming the code is going to be if podcast. So we'll put it in the show notes.
But the website for them is mix tiles.com. So friends, just go to mix tiles.com slash if podcast, because if we don't end up using the link, that'll still go to the website anyways. And then the code will probably be if podcast. But I think this is super cool. Like this is what I needed for a long time in my life.
Barry Conrad
No, this is awesome. This is such a good find, such a good sponsor, new sponsor that we have on board and like, it's something that we both 100% use and love.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. I'm obsessed with like aesthetics and like surrounding yourself with memories and moments and like cultivating the environment that you live in to make you feel, you know, to like spark good feelings. So
Barry Conrad
I 500% agree with that, I'm all about that, 100%.
Melanie Avalon
So mix tiles!
Barry Conrad
This looks awesome looking at it now on the website looks so good. I'm very I'm very sentimental in that way like you know memories and nostalgia and things like that so.
Melanie Avalon
Me too. I really am. And I also love appreciating, like I just love like the little moments, you know, of life. Like it's the little things. Life is good.
Barry Conrad
Life gets busy too, so it's like you want to be able to capture those moments and look back and remember, oh, you know what, look at how far we've come and look at what I've experienced and gratitude. It's important.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. And gratitude is very good for longevity. There are studies on that. We love that. All right. Shall we answer one more question?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So, Nicole from Facebook asks, what are your thoughts about L-carnitine? Am I saying that right? Yes.
What are your thoughts about L-carnitine? I just purchased one month of Farmacy's Nutriplus L-carnitine shots. They supposedly produce great results, but I know it'll break my fast if I take it in the morning. I usually do OMAD, which is dinner. Melanie, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
So this was crazy timing because I had this question in the lineup to talk about, and then I was finishing up my prep because this week I'm interviewing Benazzotti, who I adore Ben. Are you familiar with Ben Berry?
Barry Conrad
I don't think so, but I feel like you've mentioned him before to me.
Melanie Avalon
He's so great. He runs keto camp. He's a big proponent of the ketogenic diet. He has a massive following when it comes to the whole world of keto.
And his new book is coming out. I think I might have talked about it on a recent episode, but he had a whole section on carnitine. So I'm going to, I'll tell you what he talks about it, what he says about it in his book. So basically carnitine, it's a naturally occurring amino acid derivative. And it plays a crucial role in energy production. And the way that it works is it actually helps transport long chain fatty acids, which are a type of fat. So there's like long chain, medium chain, short chain fatty acids. So it transports long chain fatty acids into the mitochondria. And we talked about the mitochondria earlier, but those are the powerhouse production part of the cells. So basically it helps fat get into your cells to be oxidized and produce energy. So it's really, really good for burning fat and supporting your metabolism. It can help reduce body fat, it can enhance exercise performance, it can increase muscle mass. And supplementation has been shown to improve fat metabolism, especially if you pair it with physical activity, it can create more weight loss from that. It's also been shown to improve heart health, help with muscle soreness and help with exercise recovery. He talks about a study in his book and he says it's one of the most comprehensive studies on L-carnitine for fat loss. And in the study, it was a 12 week study. And participants took L-carnitine supplements, supplements, along with a high carb beverage twice a day. And then they did 30 minutes of low intensity exercise like walking or jogging four days a week. And they found that those on the L-carnitine supplement burned more calories during exercise, increased their muscle carnitine levels, maintain their weight, while the other group actually gained weight and had a reduction of their calorie burning. So that suggested that L-carnitine can enhance fat metabolism and support weight loss when you combine it with the proper diet and exercise.
And then also I just mentioned Ben Greenfield, he just had a whole section on carnitine and he was talking about its benefits for the brain. So it's very protective of the brain can support brain metabolism. So it's a really great nutrient. If you want to maximize your fat burning, then taking it before exercise seems to be the way to go. However, all of that said, so the one she's talking about, so this brand is an L-carnitine shot. It has, I was not familiar with this brand, but has L-carnitine 1500 milligrams and it has green tea extract. Green tea extract does have a lot of benefits. I would not personally get this product because it's not just carnitine. So it does have the green tea extract in the B6, but it has a lot of inactive ingredients. So it has glycerin, citric acid, natural flavoring, preservatives. It has a lot of preservatives. It has potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate. It has sucralose, which is an artificial sweetener that may have health problems and it has stevia.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, no artificial flavors. Okay. So it does say that it's lactose free, no sugar, caffeine free and no artificial flavors, but it does have natural flavors. So I would personally not get this one.
I would look for a more pure version of L-carnitine. And in addition to that, you can also try acetyl L-carnitine, which might be an even more by available form. So some brands I like, for example, I like pure encapsulations. I like Thorne as brands in general, and those are going to have less fillers. Basically, I would look for other options that don't have all those ingredients. And then as for her actual question, so I gave her a lot more information than her question. Her question says she knows it'll break her fast. She does one meal a day, which is dinner. Yeah. So basically, I understand that you already bought the product. I would, I don't know, I personally, I personally would not take that product, especially with all the preservatives and things like that in it. I would look for another option.
And then like I said, if you do take it, taking it a pure form that doesn't break your fast before exercise is probably the way to go. Have you experimented with L-carnitine berry?
Barry Conrad
I haven't yet, no. But what you said about taking it before exercise, that piqued my interest a lot.
Melanie Avalon
Have you taken it? I have not, no.
I know, I'm kind of like, I'm kind of like, especially because when I read about it, I read the question and then I read about it in Ben's book and then I read about it. I'm sorry, and well, they're both Ben's. In Benazzotti's book for the fat burning and then in Ben Greenfield's book for the brain support, it does seem like a pretty great thing to experiment with. Yeah, I'm kind of intrigued. Maybe I'll order some, not at this brand, of a different brand. Maybe I'll make one. No, I'm like in entrepreneur mode.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we wouldn't put it past you making one for sure.
I mean, this is definitely based on like what you said, Mel, you're right in terms of if it has all these different additives, you know, that that would potentially will would break your fast taking in the fastest state. So just to echo what Melanie said, you're getting something more pure, you know, without the sweeteners or fillers or added flavors would be the way to go. And, you know, there's a lot of products on the market that come in liquid form with so many hidden artificial sweeteners and sugars and, you know, not flat, not was it not flavored like you can say whatever now and you could just sneak things in.
Melanie Avalon
Well, they say like they say no artificial flavor, but then it is still flavored. And it's more like the preservatives are really make me nervous and the sucralose. So it's like, it's like, why put things into your body that might, because basically, and it's like, okay, it's a small amount. Like how bad can it be?
We are inundated today with toxins, like a toxic overload that our body was not accustomed to in the past. So anywhere that you can minimize putting in potentially toxic things into your body, do that. This is what I suggest. So like, don't, I would not, I would not like consciously put something in that I know has problematic ingredients in it, because we're already dealing, like we're already getting so many toxins from our environment. Microplastics are just everywhere, endocrine receptors. So it's like just anywhere you can clean up things, I would say to do that.
Barry Conrad
I'm curious what i agree mil i'm curious as to what put on nickel on to al carden in the first place is it she doesn't mention training or. Anything like that but it's associated a lot with you know people like a fitness and fasting stuff so i'm really interested to know why she doesn't actually mentioned like what she's trying to achieve necessarily about taking it.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, that's such, I was thinking that too, especially cause like I said, you know, it is big in the world of fat burning and exercise, but then also like all of these brain benefits. So yeah, I mean, I would assume it's probably for like fat burning, but who knows?
But yeah, now I'm interested. I kind of like sold myself on it. I'm like, I need to start taking it.
Barry Conrad
It's all kind of saying look that up like, you know, go to the store and ask about it.
Melanie Avalon
You can get it. There are a lot of foods high in elcarnitine. So I'll list some of those.
Hold on. I know red meat is pretty high. Let's see. It's especially high in protein food. So berry, you and I are probably getting quite a bit. So one of the richest sources is beef. Lamb is also very high, often even more than beef. Pork has a lot, slightly less than beef. And then chicken has moderate, fish has moderate, dairy has small to moderate. People are eating a lot of meat like you and I might be getting quite a bit of it.
Barry Conrad
Why have I not been more aware of this, like, Al-Qanateen?
Like, you know, it's like you think about, you know, high in zinc, high in this, high in that, you don't think, oh, high in Al-Qanateen.
Have you been?
Melanie Avalon
I've been pretty familiar. I guess I've never, the reason I haven't looked into it, I think more for a supplement is because I know I get so much of it from my diet.
But I've always thought like, Oh, like, you know, I know one of the benefits of meat is L-carnitine. But reading about it here, and it sounds like, you know, using like smartly supplementing with it might actually be a pretty cool hack. So maybe we should.
Barry Conrad
the brain health and everything.
Melanie Avalon
For brain health and for maybe increased metabolism and stuff with, because that's super cool that it helps you, that's so cool the mechanism of action that it actually helps fatty acids get into your mitochondria and then be burned. That's very cool.
Barry Conrad
So pairing that with training would be like a magic bullet in a way that actually would be awesome. You should get some. You know what? I'm actually, I'm running it down right now.
Melanie Avalon
and then let us know, let us know. Then you can report back if you see a difference.
Barry Conrad
Awesome. I've got that down as a note and check it out for real because I've started taking creatine.
Did I tell you this? Oh, really? For the first time, yeah, I've never in all the time I've been training, never ever used it. And I started using it maybe a couple of weeks ago. I started in powder form.
Melanie Avalon
Did you notice? Have you noticed anything?
Barry Conrad
Well, one thing that I definitely noticed was I'm carrying more water, which I don't love that, but that's one of the side effects that you hold on to my water so I'm like, everything's just thicker, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Do you know if you got like a really good, because I've heard that depending on the form you get that I've heard that you might not have that I know when Cynthia, our former co host had her creatine and empty logic, she said you wouldn't get that effect. Really?
Because there's there's different forms of it. Did you do a dose loading protocol? No. Well, I mean, it's good. Because then you probably would have had a lot of water retention. Yeah, I'd be I'd be curious, which we can, we can look at it later what you got.
Barry Conrad
Again, it's one of those things like is it placebo? I'm not too sure like the effects of whether it's helping with my recovery or helping fuel my workouts. But I mean, it's early days.
Let's see how we go. I went off creatine maybe last week because I had to do a shoot and I wanted to shed that water, you know, and I didn't want to take it. But I'll jump back on it and see.
But now that I'm kind of in it now, I've started. Or try. Yeah, try something else.
Melanie Avalon
or try el carnitine yeah exactly awesome well shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment.
Barry Conrad
I love that that's actually what we're calling it now and it just works. I love it. Yeah, let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
I know I like slowly got there with the terminology.
Barry Conrad
I like it a lot. Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right, so the purpose of this part of the show is to emphasize just how important the feasting part is of fasting because it's not just about the fasting. We talked about this all throughout the show but what you eat is so important and that's when you actually grow your muscle and support your metabolism and repair and it's really important and give your body all the nutrients it needs to actually live life.
So we pick a restaurant every week to profile and we talk about what we would order. So Barry is picking the restaurant. Barry, what restaurant do you have for us this week?
Barry Conrad
And i'm so excited about this restaurant now the one that i've got is a vibe if you ever been to london or if you want to go to london and step into history and have one of the best meals of your life rules restaurant is the place i just sent you the.
Melanie Avalon
one of the best meals of your life. That is a big statement.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's this place is London's oldest restaurant established way back in 1798. It's not just old. It's, it's literally iconic. It's dining here is apparently like having a seat at the table of like a British, British culinary history over 200 years of amazingness, like people like Charles Dickens, H.G. Wells, Lawrence Olivia were regulars.
So there's something pretty magical about that Mel, which I think you'd appreciate and it's all classic British cuisine, which I'm not super versed in, which excites me. So we're talking about like hearty dishes. Like, yeah, we've got to get into the menu and check it out. But also it's been, have you been here? I haven't been here, but I've heard about this place. And so when I found this during my research, I'm like, we got to go here. It's also been seen in, in like shows like Downton Abbey, James Bond. So it's, it's kind of like a real establishment to say the least. So I'm excited to, to proverbially break out fast here and go to this restaurant, Mel.
Melanie Avalon
Also, Barry, I see what you're doing. You know why? Why? So I pulled up the menu and it says, we serve the traditional food of this country at its best and at affordable prices. That's great.
And then it says we specialize in classic game cookery, which I love oysters, pies and puddings. I see what you're doing. I see, don't think you can pull one over me. I know what's happening here.
Barry Conrad
You know what, there's so many restaurants, listeners that I've found and everything is awesome, awesome, awesome. Then it's like, ah, too many oysters. Next one.
Melanie Avalon
Not too many oysters, but I just think that they specialize in it.
Barry Conrad
So I thought I'd, you know, break you in even more. So Melanie, we have plenty of options there.
Melanie Avalon
We do have options. Okay, I'm excited. I'm so excited.
So starters, first thing, Carlingford Rock Oysters, surprise. Second thing, Fish Soup. Third thing, Kelly Native Oysters, surprise. Okay, so many options. Okay, I, what is,
Barry Conrad
There's stuffed mussels, there's crab.
Melanie Avalon
I'm intrigued because I feel like the UK and London is known for having bad food.
Barry Conrad
Okay, hold on, hold on, stop the program, hold on, heavy, okay, you bit-
Melanie Avalon
That's a true statement that i just made that's not like me being biased.
Barry Conrad
You feel like you... Okay, have you been to the UK? You have been to the UK. Yeah. Yes. Have you eaten there many times?
Melanie Avalon
How many times have I been? Yes. Three times. Four times? Three or four times?
Barry Conrad
partook, partaken, have you feasted on the
Melanie Avalon
I didn't eat when I was there.
Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, you know what, Melanie, I have had pretty delicious food.
Melanie Avalon
That was a joke. I did eat when I was there.
Barry Conrad
What did you think?
Melanie Avalon
First time I went with my family, we were so appalled by the food that we found this one Italian restaurant and then we just ate there every night.
Barry Conrad
that. That's funny.
Melanie Avalon
I don't have any defining memory of a good food experience in the UK.
Barry Conrad
Oh my, we need to change that. We should change that.
Melanie Avalon
But that I'm and I'm not being I'm not being rude like isn't that pretty much isn't that pretty much like what the world thinks I'm going to ask chat GPT and I'm going to ask the most non biased way. What does the world think about London food moment of truth moment of truth.
Oh, okay, London's culinary reputation has undergone a remarkable transformation evolving from long standing stereotypes to being celebrated as a global gastronomic capital. So maybe it's better now but lingering stare despite its culinary advances some outdated perceptions persist.
Apparently in France wait, let's see in France French respondents and a survey placed at last in a list of 18 countries. I guess it's gotten better though.
I'm excited. Let's go to rules.
Barry Conrad
Let's, you know what, let's go to rules and we're just getting started. So Melanie, you have your year to choose your starters.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I would like to get, please, what is escabeci, what is escabeci of
Barry Conrad
I'll look, I'll look it up and tell you now. I knew gravitate towards that cause you the quail. So, okay, what is that?
It's, it's basically, it's the name for several dishes in Spanish, French, Portuguese. So it's marinated fish, meat or vegetables. No, that can't be right. So maybe it's like a marin. I think it's marinated quail. Okay. Well, that, that sounds kind of interesting, right?
Melanie Avalon
What a rabbit. Well, the marinades make me nervous. What a rabbit roulette.
Barry Conrad
Who comes up with these names by the way?
Melanie Avalon
A French charcuterie dish. Oh, made with slow-coaked shredded meat and its own fat. That sounds good.
Barry Conrad
That sounds really good actually, not gonna lie.
Melanie Avalon
So depending on what's in it.
Barry Conrad
Have you had Rabbit before?
Melanie Avalon
So interestingly enough did we do canoe on this show? I think we did we did right?
Barry Conrad
I think we did, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
the Atlanta restaurant where they have like kangaroo and stuff.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
They have rabbit there and I really wanted it, but it was like really marinated. I actually don't think I've had rabbit.
I know it's a very lean meat. It's where the term rabbit starvation comes from.
Barry Conrad
I had it in Tenerife a couple of years ago, actually, and it was for the very first time and it was absolutely delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Did it taste like chicken?
Barry Conrad
It's kind of like a quasi, kind of like a kind of chicken slash beef fusion taste. I reckon really like really easy to eat, not in your mouth. It was really good, actually really um.
Melanie Avalon
Well, okay, so I feel like depending on how it's cooked that I want so many things. I um, the middle, the middle white pork, I think.
Barry Conrad
I was waiting for you to go there. I was waiting for you to go there straight away.
Melanie Avalon
With spiced apple chutney and sourdough toast, you can have that. I will have the pork. And also, oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
Shrimps. You're doing the shrimps, aren't you?
Melanie Avalon
No, what are potted shrimps?
Barry Conrad
I feel like it's a maybe it's served in a pot and toast on the side, which is very British. It's very like a shrimp cocktail, but British style, maybe.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm kind of like craving some ug lodge smoked salmon with or without scrambled eggs with, yes. That's my, those are my decisions.
And then whatever I like the most, I might have for dessert again. How about you?
Barry Conrad
Carlingford Rock Oysters, Kelly Native Oysters, Stuffed Mussels, Rabbit Roulettes, and the Dorset Crab, Salad of Dorset Crab, which is with brown crab mayonnaise, pink grapefruit, and sourdough toast. They do a lot of toast, but it's very British.
Melanie Avalon
I love that you got both Carlingford Rock Oysters and Kelly Native Oysters. Do you know, are those different? Do you know the difference here? Are you familiar?
Barry Conrad
I feel like because they are different, they're named differently, Melanie, and I love Oyster so much, I'm gonna just go for it.
Melanie Avalon
And you'll get two chances to try to convince me to like oysters because we have two options.
Barry Conrad
Exactly. You might like the look of one of them like, oh, those look like sparkly to quote you, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. So you got two wasters, you got the mussels. Have you had mussels before? Stuffed mussels with herb butter, garlic, and bread crumbs. Yes.
Barry Conrad
Okay, to zoom out, New Zealand, when I used to live there, seafood and mussels in particular, so delicious, like so good, like of course, and South Africa as well, so I love mussels so much.
Melanie Avalon
Do you hear them? What do muscles taste like?
Barry Conrad
Are you having that we've had this conversation.
Melanie Avalon
Are they kind of like last episode, escargot? Yeah, are they, do they taste like the sea? What do they taste like? Do they taste like muscle? Like protein, like chicken?
Barry Conrad
is this like you saying the eggs were like really eggy like no
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, are they really, are they really muscly?
Barry Conrad
Okay that they're more like chewy they're not like they're not always to consistency texture that like you gotta choose who was that side that little grumble the head was that you are.
Melanie Avalon
That was, I was, I just, I don't know. I don't know.
I don't like, I just, I like kind of like firm, even though scallops are scallops are soft, but like when it comes to protein, I like, like, you know, like, I don't know. Well, I guess, I guess like a rare filet is kind of chewy.
Barry Conrad
Well, you have to chew through steak, so it's like same same, but different.
Melanie Avalon
You know they're stuffed i will if you can okay so if you can like get the muscles and then kind of like cut out a piece of the interior muscle that is not with all the other stuff no pun intended can i try that.
Barry Conrad
Yes, I actually do think, honestly, a fresh muscle pot in general, like steamed muscles, is actually one of the best things you could have. It's like, it's actually, it's such a big thing in New Zealand and Australia. It's a thing.
Melanie Avalon
We got to go somewhere that has steam muscles that that speaks to me.
Barry Conrad
It comes in like, you know, it looks like a wit, like a witch's cauldron, like a black pot, and it's, it's filled with muscles, steamed and it's so good. Really delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Have you seen, so when I think mussels, all I think of is being at the beach and like seeing mussels on the sea shore, like on the sand, like washed up.
Barry Conrad
It doesn't sound very appetizing the way you're saying it. Just washed up. Like you don't know it's not. Okay. I feel like we should move to the main cause.
Melanie Avalon
I think we got like the entire menu, except we literally got everything except the fish soup, the blood orange salad, oh the shrimp, okay, nevermind, okay, main course, their beef is sourced from British farms and aged for 28 days, I am so excited, okay, what is a, what is a venison hotpot, what's a hotpot?
Barry Conrad
We were just talking about a hot pot. To me, that means...
Melanie Avalon
I know. Is that the same thing?
Barry Conrad
for me, well, I just had a hot pot at someone's house a few weeks ago and that meant cooking it there, but I don't think that's their vibe. So I feel like, I don't know, actually, I don't, I don't, I'm not sure, a pot of venison.
I don't think that's a thing because hot pot usually means like you actually cook the meat yourself. So you dip it into the water and it's like super, yeah, that's what that is.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love doing that. Is this like a DIY, like cook your own venison? Because I'm down.
Barry Conrad
Okay, if that's that, then let's assume that's that.
Melanie Avalon
If that's it, I am like, oh, okay. If that's the case, I love that.
Like were you cooking in the water? Yeah. Oh my goodness. And since we're talking about venison, we should give a shout out to Maui Nui, our favorite venison brand. They source venison from Hawaii where the axis deer are actually overtaking the islands and it's creating a problem for the ecosystem. So they, it really helps. Like having this meat, it's super nutritious. It's really high in protein, low in fat, and it's helping deal with that overpopulation problem of the axis deer. And they do it in a very stress-free manner, a very like natural way of getting the venison. So if listeners are interested, they can go to MauiNuiVenison.com. That's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-V-E-N-I-S-O-N.com slash I have podcast to secure your access now because of like how natural it is. There is limited, like there's limited production of how they do it. So you can secure your access there and get some of our favorite cuts. So, but back to this menu. Okay, so I definitely want the venison hotpot because I love cooking the meat myself in the water because then I can just like barely cook it. It's like a whole thing. And I want two entrees. I also would like
Barry Conrad
Quite a few options, right? Like a lot, actually.
Melanie Avalon
oh wait this is fun they have a they have a roast rib of beef for two but the funny thing is like for two like i probably need double of that just for me i think i'm kind of feeling right now at this moment i kind of want the dressing ham duck breast
Barry Conrad
Okay, that sounds pretty delicious, and that's with...
Melanie Avalon
Which comes with, would you like to say it? It sounds better when you say it.
Barry Conrad
It comes with beetroot puree, roast and dive and five spice. Is it on- is it on-dive, on-dive, how do you say it? On-dive? Yeah, on-dive. Yeah, and five spice. So that sounds pretty good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So venison and duck are what I got going on. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I have to do steak and kidney pudding as one of them with oyster.
Melanie Avalon
I love it. So if listeners go to the menu and the menu is at... Oh, we should start saying the website. I don't think we've done that ever. That's probably a problem.
So the website for this is rules.co.uk. And literally this one, say the link, we've been failing. We've been really failing there. That's embarrassing.
Sorry, guys. It says steak and kidney pudding. And then in a different font color, unlike any other of the other like sub information things which are in the same font color, this one's in a different font color. And it says with oyster. They like want you to see it.
Barry Conrad
Well, basically they're a restaurant after my heart because they get it. They get the oysters are so damn good.
So steak and kidney pudding with oyster. And I'm going to go roast pork, belly and see a diver scallop. I'm going to also get the grilled lamb chops and I'm going to go for, okay. I got to, I've got to say, I've got to say what it is. Hold on.
Melanie Avalon
Slow down cowboy, you're getting so many.
Barry Conrad
Roast pork belly and seared diver scallop comes with apple puree, poi lentils and hazelnut dressing. And the grilled lamb chops come with braised fennel, purple sprouting broccoli and olive dressing. And going to go for that roast rib of beef for two, which is with buttered greens, Yorkshire pudding, horseradish cream and red wine dew. So it's, it's a few dishes.
We need, we need like probably one of those double table or like a big table. Cause we, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I would like to emphasize for listeners if they're curious yes berry did just order for entrees one of which is for two people so i want to.
Barry Conrad
Why are you yelling at me?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'm not yelling. I don't yell.
Barry Conrad
Their portions are pretty small, just saying.
Melanie Avalon
Here's the question. How are you getting the, okay, so preparation, staking kidney pudding. Okay. I'm not going to be present for that one.
How do you, how do you want the roast rib cooked? Anyway, you said lamb too. How do you want the lamb cooked and the rib?
Barry Conrad
The rib, medium rare, the lamb, probably on the more on the rare side.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, interesting. Whoa, I would have said the reverse. Really? That's interesting. Really? You like your lamb rarer than your beef?
Barry Conrad
Oh, the ribs, because, okay, am I imagining, is it on the bone or is it just like the rib just cut off the bone? Hold on. Roast, oh, sorry, roast rib. Okay. Okay, roast rib, of course, yeah. Give me both of them rare. That's it.
So it just melts off the knife.
Melanie Avalon
Are we gonna get any vegetables and salads?
Barry Conrad
Of course, I'm going to get potatoes with, okay, that's chips. We're not doing that. I'm going to do, no, I don't, I don't require that with my five entrees.
Melanie Avalon
Okay okay so now we're okay now we're desserts okay so that's okay i feel i feel good i feel good about this.
Barry Conrad
Same. So, Melanie was initially quite upset that there were oysters on the menu, and now she's going through, oh, there's a few options now, so it's good.
Melanie Avalon
I wasn't upset. I just know what you're doing here.
Barry Conrad
Okay, now listeners, if you've gone to the website rules.co.uk, we're going to the puddings, savories, and cheese. So Melanie, what is catching your eye?
Melanie Avalon
So this is the dessert section. So of course, I feel like when I answer this, should I answer what I would get if I ate desserts and then I'll answer what I actually am gonna get?
Yeah. I'm starting a new trend. So if I got desserts, I would get, I do like cheese and I like cream. So the triacol tart with clotted cream sounds interesting, but I will be getting a savory dessert. So I probably will have for dessert. I think for dessert, if they can bring me one of the entrees we didn't try, which is the Escalap of salmon or steamed halibut, but I think the salmon, yeah, the salmon.
Barry Conrad
Okay, that's your choice? Choices?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Although now I'm curious. What is a roast feather blade of beef? What does that mean?
Roast feather blade? Sounds good. Do you know what that is? I don't actually. It's braised feather blade beef. What is it?
Barry Conrad
look like. Okay, I'm looking at it now. It looks...
Melanie Avalon
It's a cut of beef taken from the shoulder area. Oh, called the chuck. So it's chuck beef. Oh, okay. That makes it sound way more fancy than it is. That's misleading.
Okay, so I'm gonna get the salmon for dessert. How about you?
Barry Conrad
How about me? I'm going to get the Pear and Apple Crumble with Custard, which is 2021.
Tesoro Riccardo della Valpoli Ciela Cantina Vellapetana. Itadily. Itadily. And that's Pear and Apple Crumble with Custard. Love Crumble. I'm also going to get a Flourless Blood Orange Chocolate Cake standard with Chantilly Cream.
Melanie Avalon
Chantilly sorry, I worked at a steakhouse and we had we had Chantilly cream and it was a thing Chantilly cream
Barry Conrad
Chantilly Cream, 2022 Mary Mo Amel Rosalyn.
Melanie Avalon
So what you're reading is the wine pairing.
Barry Conrad
The wine pairing, okay, I don't know how to say that. So that, and then also, so those two, and then gotta do it in this cheese plate, because that's, I love cheese.
Melanie Avalon
I want to know what the golden syrup sponge is. So out of all the different menus, the dessert menu, I like, I don't know what it means.
Like I don't like Croppwell, Bishop, Stilton. I don't know what that means. And like Welsh where bet. I don't know what that is.
Barry Conrad
I feel like we were talking about surprises and magicians at some point. And this is a lot of surprises.
Yeah, we can just try different things. We can order a whole bunch of things and then just, you can bite, take little bites of everything if you like it.
Melanie Avalon
I'm excited. This sounds like a cool place to go. And I like that we ordered between us like 10 entrees.
Barry Conrad
They could be like, are you sure you want all that? Like, I don't think you can finish it. It's like, you don't know us, we can finish it.
Melanie Avalon
This is amazing. OK.
Barry Conrad
also, Mel, we're not done yet. Let's go to the wine menu. There's quite a few wines.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, and they have a shop. You love shops. Every time you say that it's like you like, we love when they have a shop. We love merchandise.
Don't tempt me with a shop. Let me see what they have from the shop. Sorry. I got distracted by the store. I'm going to get the classic rules mug most definitely.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that's funny.
Melanie Avalon
Yep, okay back to the the wine
Barry Conrad
There's quite a few ones there Melanie, is anything looking
Melanie Avalon
So big disclaimer, when I order wine at a restaurant, I can't just look and order something because I have my whole process. And for listeners, what that process is, is you look up the winery, you look up if it's an organic winery, which it often may be surprisingly, and then you look up the actual wine, you check the alcohol percentage, and then you look up reviews to see if it's kind of dry or not.
So what I'm picking right now, it's hard to know, because I would have to do more research. But actually, I do know, I know that the I love flurry, let me see if this is organic. I'm actually pretty familiar with a lot of these wines. Really? Yeah, because I love French wine. So I'm looking them up a lot. And these are all these all French wines.
Barry Conrad
It could actually be. I think they're all French. You should love because you love that, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, this is a good wine list for sure. Basically, this list is so amazing and there's so many options that I would need more time, but there's definitely an option here that I would love.
There's a lot of good red French wines. Nice. Yeah, how about you?
Barry Conrad
I'm going to go for the Bologogni Pinot Noir.
Melanie Avalon
Nice. The Bouchard pear, it feels, I think that's organic. I think I've had that one before.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, which is different to what I normally do. But because I'm in the UK, I'm at rules.
It's quite an old institution. I'm going to stick with this one all night, just like there's lots of meat on my entrees, plural. So I'm going to just stick with the red, I reckon, for this one.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I will say I feel very, very good about the swine list. Like there's definitely a lot of options.
So before going, I would have done my research. So when we got there, I would know what I want to get. So you wouldn't have to like wait for me, but I probably, I would have done my research, I probably would have found if they're by the glass, I would have found a few that I want to taste, but if they're by the bottle, then we just have to like say a prayer that, you know, it's good. Well, thanks for finding this. How did you find it? Did you Google like the oldest restaurant in London?
Barry Conrad
No, I just I went through what just like, you know, interesting restaurants, UK, and this baby popped up.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I'm excited. I like the title too, or the name rules. What are the rules? I wonder how many times people ask them that. Like as the opening line. Yeah.
Barry Conrad
What are the rules, you know, one of the rules is to have oysters.
Melanie Avalon
Yep. So this has been super fun for listeners. We hope you enjoyed today's show.
If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, definitely email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 429. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad and we are I of podcast. And I think that's all the things. So anything from you Barry before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for tuning in again this week and we'll catch you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome! This was so fun! Talk to you next week! Bye!
Barry Conrad
Bye!
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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