Welcome to Episode 439 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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LINKS
Featured Restaurant: Canoe
https://www.instagram.com/p/CnH-86tua07/?igsh=N2NiaTdxbnc5ZzAx
Book: The Longevity Leap: A Guide to Slowing Down Biological Aging and Adding Healthy Years to Your Life
STUDIES:
Short-term effects of high-protein, lower-carbohydrate ultra-processed foods on human energy balance
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Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 439 of the Intermittent Fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX and author of What, Win, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo style meals, intermittent fasting and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 439 of the Intermittent Fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. I am doing so good today.
Melanie, on the weekend, I actually went to a Studio 54 themed birthday party. It was like a joint birthday for some new friends, and I reckon you would've loved it. It was like 70s, 80s kind of vibe. Yeah, it was so much fun. I've never been to one of those before, Studio 54.
Melanie Avalon
What do you think? I think that's it for now. Bye.
Barry Conrad
I wore this like white, sort of like a white cream polo with navy trimming orange pants, like orange trousers. These white kicks and I combed my hair out like Afro style.
So like Jackson 5 kind of vibes.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it was so much fun.
Melanie Avalon
Because Studio 54 is 80s, right?
Barry Conrad
mid-70s through to 80s. And I thought of you that night because some of the girls were wearing all these sparkly things and one of the girls said, I'm wearing all the sparkles of like, oh, this is such a Melanie thing.
She'd love this.
Melanie Avalon
We would have been friends. It's amazing.
Barry Conrad
Have you ever been to one of those?
Melanie Avalon
No, but the closest thing is not last biohacking conference, but biohacking conference before that. The theme was 80s.
And I was like, I can't, like the 80s is so disguised, I just, there's nothing redeeming about the 80s in fashion and clothing. And then I, that's when I found Studio 54, I was like, oh, I can kind of do that vibe rather than like 80s.
Barry Conrad
What about the 80s do you not, you know, feeling the big.
Melanie Avalon
hair.
Barry Conrad
You don't like that?
Melanie Avalon
No the clothing like 60s you can make you 50s you can make use 70s you can make you 80s is rough
Barry Conrad
It's like rockstar vibes.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I guess if I can just wear a lot of glitter, it's kind of like 80s and then like 90s shoulder pads like who I hope that I bet that trend won't come back because I feel like that was one trend that was about like feminism and stuff.
What's that one? Like the shoulder pads and for women in the 90s.
Barry Conrad
I still see shoulder pads in some fashion stuff like really definitely
Melanie Avalon
I get ya. I just, I feel like it's contrary to the way the feminine form is natural, like I don't, I just don't understand it.
Barry Conrad
So it's a note for you to wear shoulder pads and to your next show that you go to.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just I don't want to look like a man. That's not my style.
Barry Conrad
your vibe, going for it.
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm all about the equal rights and working like a man, but I don't want shoulder pads.
Barry Conrad
What about you? How's your week been? How's your weekend?
Melanie Avalon
It's good. I'm excited because I'm looking ahead at when this airs.
So this airs September 15th. Do you know what I will have done a couple of days ago? What? I will have gone to Hans Zimmer concert front row. Really? Yes. Have you seen him live?
Barry Conrad
I sadly have not yet and that would be absolutely incredible, that would be amazing.
Melanie Avalon
I was looking at clips of like the potential lineup from past concerts and it's like, you know, like Pirates of the Caribbean and Lion King and all and like Inception and all these like really epic songs.
Barry Conrad
That would be amazing. Who are you going with?
Melanie Avalon
to be determined. Do you want to come?
Barry Conrad
TVC. Actually, because this is, I just realized this is...
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, because you actually could have come, but you won't be here.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll be wrapping up destiny in Australia, back in Australia, which is so wild to say.
Melanie Avalon
wild. Yeah, when is the last when's the last show?
Barry Conrad
like mid September. So exactly when you're watching Hans, I'll be maybe doing the curtain call.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, wild. That's crazy.
I was watching actually this week. I was our people who make the show notes needed the link to your like to Destiny for tickets. So I was looking at the website and I was watching the video they have on there of you and your your co star, like talking about and stuff. It was really cool.
Maybe we want to go see it. I mean, I already wanted to see it. But I was like, I want to go.
Barry Conrad
I can't wait. You should come. You should come, but I know that it's, I think it's just a bit too far for Melanie to travel. And also, you'd have to be there for more than a day, so.
Melanie Avalon
yeah it's like oh it's a little far Yes, definitely. Someday, though.
Barry Conrad
I also saw a movie that I think that you I think you might like when I was watching it with this movie club
Melanie Avalon
What movie?
Barry Conrad
It's called the materialists. Have you heard of it?
Melanie Avalon
No. Is it new?
Barry Conrad
It's new. It stars Dakota Johnson, Pedro Pascal, and Chris Evans, and it's about dating. It's all about, like, she plays this matchmaker, a professional matchmaker. And it's basically revolves around this matchmaker who treats dating like a spreadsheet, like money, height, image, you're either in or you're out. I reckon you find it really interesting.
I didn't love the movie, but it did make me realize in a weird way how we can sometimes approach health that way. Like we want sometimes one shortcuts or hacks or perfect macros. But forget that the real transformation, whether in love or fasting, whatever, is isn't just about numbers. It's about showing up with consistency and tuning into what feels right and not just outsourcing, you know, just data. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
That was such a beautiful segue and like, in comparison, I feel like you were made to be a motivational speaker.
Barry Conrad
What do you mean? I'm not motivational.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, that was really motivational, what you just said. I'm like, yes, sign me up.
Barry Conrad
But thank you. That's very kind. And also, I do think you should check it out because I think you'd find it entertaining. It's pretty funny.
Melanie Avalon
Is it in theaters right now?
Barry Conrad
It's in theaters right now, and it's savage as well, just that, you know, it's like really savage.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, how do you define savage? I feel like I don't use that word a lot.
Barry Conrad
sort of just really brutal, like really crazy what she says and what the people go to asking for like, this is what I want. This is what I don't want.
And it's stuff that things that you wouldn't say to people necessarily, but you're paying someone to set you up with someone. So you're saying all these really crazy things. You shouldn't. I think you'd like it. Let me know what you think.
Melanie Avalon
I like Dakota Johnson. A lot.
Barry Conrad
I don't know why I think that you would, but I thought that as soon as I was sitting there, I was like, I reckon Mel likes her. I don't know why.
Melanie Avalon
Did you, did you back in the day, read Fifty Shades of Grey? I feel like that, because that's kind of what, it's not kind of what like, made her pretty famous.
Barry Conrad
I didn't watch any of those movies, see that's not for me, I don't love those kind of romance novel things. It's just too much for me, erotica.
Melanie Avalon
The thing about it was, you know, because it came out after it was like all based on Twilight. Like that's, do you remember like the book? Really? Yeah, it was fan.
It was Twilight fan fiction. I know it's not the Twilight characters, but that's what inspired it. So and I was a big Twilight person. And then it was like a whole thing. People were like reading in. I read the first book. I was like, okay.
Barry Conrad
Did you watch all of the shades of grey ones, you know?
Melanie Avalon
So why did I do this? I saw the movie when it came out, the first one, and then I don't think I saw the others. And then like a, hmm, like a year ago, year and a half ago, two years ago, maybe two years probably, I was like, I kind of I'm gonna watch the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy, like, I'm just gonna do that right now. And I did.
I don't know why. Yeah, it was fun. It's like, when you make it through, you know, watch it, when you watch like all three in a row, then you make it to the end. And they do like the really sentimental like montage, flashback of like the scenes in the beginning. And you're like, I'm getting emotional. And you're like, what is this? Like, this is not what am I doing with my life right now?
Barry Conrad
I feel like it's a female thing, I don't know.
Melanie Avalon
I think it is. Did we talk about this? How I met somebody who actually has
Barry Conrad
Also, let me zoom out for a second and say, I'm sure it's for everyone. It's just like more and more experience. It's not something a lot of guys I know watch those movies.
Melanie Avalon
No, I completely understand what you're saying. I think it is.
I mean, it was really... And like, the book was like a whole... Women read it a lot more. Have I discussed or have we talked about Fantasia? No. Okay, there's a reason I'm saying this because we're talking about reading books.
There's this thing called Aphantasia and it's where... Okay, so you know when like, you're reading a book and you picture it in your head? Like, the story?
Barry Conrad
All the time.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, some people can't do that. What do you mean, you can't do that? It's called aphantasia and they don't, they literally can't make mental images in their head. It's like being blind in your mind.
So like if they're, and so then the reason I'm talking about it is I made a new friend and we were talking about like, cause he seemed like the reader type, like not that there's like a reader type, but I was saying how I used to read a lot growing up. I'm like, I bet you did too. He was like, actually, no, not really, but there's a reason for it. And then he said that he had aphantasia and I was like, Oh my goodness. Cause I had just, I had just read about it. So he can't, I was so excited. I felt like it was me as a celebrity. I was like, you have this condition, tell me more. So like you, when you have it, you can't, you can't make mental images. So he was saying like, he was never really intrigued by reading because you can't, you don't picture it in your head. You just read the facts.
Barry Conrad
That's really sad to me because the whole thing about reading for me, especially fiction, is the mental imagery that it evokes.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, isn't that crazy?
Barry Conrad
That's really crazy. And at first, how's that possible though? How can you not imagine?
Melanie Avalon
I don't know. But then the thing is, the crazy thing is they can't imagine what it would be like to do that. Like to them, it makes no sense.
Barry Conrad
So can they imagine anything even if they're not reading like just imagine the summer's day or that they can't picture make any pic for many pictures.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, no, they can't see anything in their head. Wow. Yeah, I was reading out because I went down the rabbit hole because I learned about this for the mind blown podcast. And then I was going down the Reddit rabbit holes, reading like things from people who had it.
And like one person was saying she was a painter. And the reason she liked being a painter was because it allowed her to actually create in the world what she couldn't see in her mind. I was like, Oh, wow, that's really deep. You know,
Barry Conrad
Yes. Aphantasia. Aphantasia. It's kind of like a very pretty name for a bad situation.
Melanie Avalon
I know, right? But I wish you could have seen me because I've known about it for a few months now. And then when I met the guy who had it, I literally freaked out. I was so excited.
I was like, I have so many questions for you. And some people don't realize they have it, like, because they don't, they don't know that you're supposed to, you know, it's like a thing like, it's hard, it's hard to notice the absence of something.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I really love, I love the power of imagination. It's such an important part of being creative.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, they can imagine, you know, situations, but they can't see, they just can't see any of it.
Barry Conrad
Wow.
Melanie Avalon
So yeah, reading would be so boring.
Barry Conrad
Yes, just data and numbers and letters.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
It's not for me.
Melanie Avalon
Me neither. Glad we don't have that.
Barry Conrad
It should be like, I don't know, it's not, not anyway.
Melanie Avalon
not something so pretty. Yeah. I feel like actually that the word for when you don't have feelings is also very pretty. I think it's anhedonia.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds like someone's name, like a girl's name or something.
Melanie Avalon
Anhedonia. So, so beautiful sounding, but it's the inability to experience joy or pleasure. What?
Barry Conrad
That's sad.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's a common symptom of depression, but it's not actually depression itself. It's just literally not having, it's like feeling numb.
Barry Conrad
Aw, man.
Melanie Avalon
So anhedonia and
Barry Conrad
Aphantasia.
Melanie Avalon
Fantasia. I think of Anastasia. Anastasia.
Barry Conrad
I mean, I'm surprised to hear that. And speaking of surprises, Mel, I know that you mentioned something about you don't like surprise parties. Why is that?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes, just really quickly. Yeah, because because Barry was telling me about a surprise party situation, as he would say in his, in his words, and I was like, I can't believe we haven't talked about this. So basically, don't throw me a surprise party.
Okay. But why? Because I need to. There's a way that you can if you really want to, if you really want to, I have to think that I'm going to something like I want to like, look my best and like be prepared and like, so I need to think I'm going to something else where I'm already dressing up, then it can be a surprise party, I guess.
Barry Conrad
So basically, if there's a dress code or like the style of event, then you can work with that.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, like because I want to make sure that I'm in like the right party mode, you know, and I've like done the party thing. That's the other thing, like my schedule, like I need to be in the in the right energy, which means I need to prepare for it.
So I need to think that I'm going to something else. If you don't, what happens? I'll be not happy about the situation.
Barry Conrad
Is this kind of like that fought restaurant situation?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, my mom knows this she's like I never threw you a surprise party because I know that you were not Although I did get thrown a surprise party once true story When I graduated early from high school my all my friends threw me a going away party a surprise party. I'm actually trying to remember Because you know what?
I remember. Um, oh, I know what happened I thought I was going over to like spend the night with my friend This is before I was crazy. I guess I was fine. I guess I was better with surprise parties back then I thought I was going over to spend the night I was so exhausted because they threw it like right after exams I remember talking about I was like i'm not gonna go i'm i'm too tired And she was like you have to go. I was like, no, I don't I was like, why do I have to go? She's like and then she and then she told me she was like I wasn't supposed to tell you but they're throwing a surprise birthday party or a surprise party So then I have to go
Barry Conrad
Do you think that you could ever revert back to liking them or not? Or would you ever like them and...
Melanie Avalon
I think I would like it if we follow the protocol I just gave.
Barry Conrad
like sans protocol if you were like so what if people turned up to your door like a massive surprise like all these people
Melanie Avalon
No, don't I don't want people coming into my my life.
Barry Conrad
Like if they basically like you just got back from choir therapy and all of a sudden you get this knock and the open the door and these balloons and everything and
Melanie Avalon
Don't do that.
Barry Conrad
Or would you just leave them outside like you can't come in?
Melanie Avalon
I'd be like, I'd be like, thank you guys. Can we do this another time? Can we, I'll meet you tomorrow night? Yeah, how about you? Are you down for any surprise party anytime?
Barry Conrad
You know what? I actually get shy at stuff like that because I'm fine with being on stage, being on camera, doing a podcast, anything like that. But when it comes to life, when it comes to attention put on me in personal situations like that, I get kind of bashful and shy.
I'm grateful, but I don't get mad. I just get shy, really shy.
Melanie Avalon
No way, in all social situations or just like this type.
Barry Conrad
Well, not also, no, I could like, you know, in life, I can hang out with anyone and stuff, but I think with surprise parties or surprise when people go around saying like, nice things, like, you know, stuff like that, I just get really bashful. I'm not used to like, I find that hard to sort of receive.
Melanie Avalon
Have I told you one of the most game-changing things for me in my life with this concept? Because I don't know if it's the exact same. I used to really not like getting compliments. I mean, it's the same thing, like it makes me feel, like I feel like I don't know how to receive, like you're saying like, I don't know how to receive it.
Like you want to kind of like downplay it or so, but then I read something and it was saying when somebody gives you a compliment, literally you can just say thank you. You don't have to say that's not true. You don't have to justify it. You can literally just receive it and say, thank you. Game changer, game changer in my life.
Barry Conrad
And to, and to clarify, like if someone says, excuse me, a compliment, it's very different, but it's more like if it's a group thing and, and they give a speech as a, I just want to disappear. Cause I feel so shy, like, you know, it's more like, yeah, I don't know why it's like a kid thing comes over me.
It's really interesting, but I'm so not shy, like put me in front of an audience and stuff. I'm great.
Melanie Avalon
Wow.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Aw, we learned something new. Now we know how to navigate the world of surprise parties.
Barry Conrad
So turn up to Mel's door with balloons and everyone in the whole situation and she'll love it and she'll invite us in and make us steak and cucumbers in her robe.
Melanie Avalon
And I will have a party for you and I'll make sure everybody writes a really intense speech about how awesome you are and then we're going to all read it. Everybody's going to read it for hours.
We're all going to toast. Everybody's going to have their little speech. Yep. I'll organize this.
Barry Conrad
Does Danny like, listen to Danny, Danny, I like to call, but Melanie calls it Danielle. Does Danny like this kind of thing? Does she like surprises?
Melanie Avalon
I don't know, actually. I have to ask her. I guess we just weren't like a surprise party throwing family, really.
Barry Conrad
There you go.
Melanie Avalon
Well, shall we talk about some fasting related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's jump in, do you have a study first this week?
Melanie Avalon
I do. I'm actually very excited about this study.
It is called Short-Term Effects of High Protein, Low Carb, Ultra Processed Foods on Human Energy Balance. Okay. So let me explain why I'm so excited about this study. So I feel like we look at studies a lot or we talk about the research on fasting and protein and the effects of like if you overeat protein or if you add more protein, how does that affect your weight? It's normally we're talking about like whole foods forms of protein, like just adding more I mean, it's never like ultra processed food protein. So the purpose of this study was to see if you gave people and let them eat whatever they want, but it was ultra processed foods. If it's either high protein or normal protein, how did that affect like their energy intake, their appetite, their weight loss, all their thing, all the things. Actually not weight loss because it was kind of a short term study, but their metabolism.
So would you like to know what they found?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, tell me. That sounds super interesting. Tell me what they'll find.
Melanie Avalon
So they had two different groups. And really quickly, so in the beginning of the study, they talk about how there's this thing called the Nova classification, which, and I think we've talked about it on the show before, but it basically determines what the different forms of processing are. And so ultra processed foods are foods that have low cost ingredients. And then they're often modified by chemical processes with little to no intact, unprocessed, or mentally processed foods. And they also have additives, which are called cosmetic additives. So basically, you know, cheap ingredients, they modify it somehow, there's not really any like real food in there. And they also add in things to it. And then they talk about how over consuming these is pretty much, you know, known today to lead to it's very palatable. So we want to eat more of it, it's high calorie, and it doesn't really have good effects. And yet at the same time, what they were saying is that there's a lot of like, even though the ultra processed food industry is foods that don't seem to have good metabolic effects, they'll label them as like high protein. So it's kind of like marketed to us as a health claim, when it's an ultra processed food. So that's what they say in the beginning of the study.
And then they also mentioned something called the protein leverage hypothesis, which we've talked about before. And that is basically where the idea that people will eat to satiety with protein. So like you need a certain amount of protein and you'll be hungry until you eat enough. So they wanted to also see how that was involved with everything. So in this study, so it was 24 people, 13 women, 11 men, and it was a single blind crossover inpatient study in a whole room indirect calorie meter. So basically, what that means is these people were in a room where it was measuring by measuring the carbon dioxide levels, they could tell how much energy these people were actually burning. So you actually can like measure people's metabolisms in these rooms. So it's really tightly controlled. And then the way it worked was for the participants, they were randomized to two groups, and they would do one of the diets for five and a half days, and then like a washout period, and then they would switch the other diet. So the two diets were number one, the high protein, low carb group, and let me tell you what that included, that was a, okay, so the high protein, low carb, ultra processed food diet was 30% protein, which again, I don't even consider 30% diet, but 30% protein, 29% carbs, I don't consider that that low for carbs. And then there was a normal protein, normal carbohydrate group, which was 13% protein, 46% carbs, and both of these are being ultra processed. And so what they found was that the people who had the higher protein, oh, and again, like I said, it was ad libitum, meaning people could eat as much as they wanted, which is naturally because it's ultra processed food, that's naturally going to lead people to probably eat more.
Melanie Avalon
So in the end, the people, both groups did end up eating in a calorie excess. So they both groups ate more calories than their body needed.
So the protein leverage hypothesis, it could not prevent overeating. However, it did make the group that in the higher protein, they actually consumed less. So anywhere from 196 plus or minus 396 calories, less in the higher protein group. And so the techniques that they found was that protein, that higher protein led to less post-prandial ghrelin release, which ghrelin is our hunger hormones that actually makes you hungrier. So the people eating the higher protein, after they ate, they had less of the hormone, making them want to eat more. So it makes sense that they ate less. They also had higher PPY. And that's a hormone that increases satiety. So not only did they have less of the hormone that made them feel hungry, they had more of the hormone that made them feel full in the higher protein group.
What's interesting is this happened, even though the people that were eating the higher protein, their stomach actually emptied faster. So the food went through them faster, yet they still were less hungry, which is counterintuitive because you would think if your stomach's emptying faster, you would get hungry again. But that's not what they found. They also found this interesting. So the people in the higher protein group actually had higher 24 hour insulin levels. That might be surprising to people that it was lower carb higher protein, they had higher insulin, but that's because amino acids can stimulate insulin. So they think that's why that happened. But what was interesting is they did not have increased markers of insulin resistance. So basically, they made a comment about how you shouldn't, I'm paraphrasing, but basically this higher insulin levels, 24 hour insulin levels on the higher protein group, shouldn't be seen as marker of insulin resistance because that wasn't what was supported by the findings of everything that they were testing in these people.
The higher protein group also naturally led to a higher fiber intake. The higher protein group, they had higher metabolism both when they were sleeping and 24 hours. And the reasoning for that that they hypothesized was probably from two things, from thermogenesis. So protein just requires more energy to break down. So it's partly from that. And then apart also could have been from gluconeogenesis. So basically, the liver creates carbohydrates or glucose from protein. And that's actually an energy expensive process. So it requires energy to do that. So both of those factors together made the group that ate a higher protein, ultra processed protein to have a higher metabolism. So one of the main things that they really concluded about it though was, yes, both groups over ate. So ultra processed foods are going to probably make you overeat even if it's protein. But the higher protein, it increased their metabolism more and they ate less, but it was still in excess.
Melanie Avalon
My takeaway is ultra processed foods make you overeat. And even if they're high protein, they're probably going to make you overeat.
But if you're gonna eat ultra processed foods, make them protein because you're going to get less of the negative side effects. So yeah, what do you think about this?
Barry Conrad
Wowzers. Well, first of all, this is such an interesting study. I mean, ultra processed food, as soon as you even mentioned that is like, what is she going to say? Because we already know, you know, these foods are designed literally to keep us overeating. Like we can't, I was not surprised at all by the outcome of both groups eating more like in excess of what they needed.
Because especially because and also the whole thought of these foods still being marketed as healthy, you need this protein. So get this, it's still healthy, even though it's processed and people reach for that on the go. I thought it was really interesting that the higher protein group actually increase their metabolism, even though it's ultra processed food, that was not something expected, because it's within ultra processed food context. So it's what so their body just still worked harder to process the food then also, I wonder why that is.
Melanie Avalon
and it was in comparison to the other group. So basically eating more protein, they saw in the metabolic rates of the two groups, it would have been nice to have a control group, you know, that was eating maybe whole foods.
So basically, if you ate that, if you ate more protein, processed protein, you would burn more calories, but it but none of it is enough to make up for overeating that's going to happen from it all being ultra processed.
Barry Conrad
It also makes you wonder, like, does the metabolic boost from the high protein, like some people might go, it doesn't matter if the boost is from high protein, if you're still overeating ultra processed food? Like does it, you know, as long as you're still having protein, or is the insulin rising just from protein or is it the way it's processed?
That was interesting, too.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that was really, really interesting to me. It was interesting to me and I'll actually read the sentence that I mentioned about.
They said that the postprandial insulin, so what they did is they looked at the insulin to glucon ratio that can indicate the role of insulin resistance or not. So it was lower in the high protein group. So they said that the improved glycemic control during high protein, low carb, ultra processed food, despite a high calorie intake and high glucagon, suggest that increased insulin secretion in the situation does not reflect insulin resistance. So there was more insulin secretion, but it was not a negative insulin resistance type situation, which is very interesting.
Barry Conrad
Also, you know, it suggests I guess their bodies are working much harder to process the food, but still not enough to balance out the excess. It's like you can't out eat.
You also can't win. When you're eating ultra processed food, I know from experience, you want to keep eating it. It's so hard to stop. It's hard to have moderation with that.
Melanie Avalon
I agree so much. I'm trying to see what they actually like what their actual conclusion conclusion was
Barry Conrad
Also, to me, that's not really low-carb in the high-protein low-carb group. I know. 29% carbs is not low-carb, right?
Melanie Avalon
Not in my book. I mean, that's more just like, to me, like moderate cards, especially if people are doing like a balance, like 30, 30, 30 or the way I found this actually was I, it was a, it was a situation where I was reading another, I was looking for something else and then I saw it referenced and I saw the title and I was like, oh, this looks so interesting.
So yeah, this was published by the way in March of 2025 and nature metabolism.
Barry Conrad
such a awesome fine melon. And you know what, the, the jarring reality is now that I'm America, there's I was walking the other day, going from store to store, there's like so many stores, like every other stores, like a whole new grocery store, and like aisles of ultra processed snacks.
And like, there's no shortage. And I'm like, I need to really also like, if I can practice self control, and it still can be tempting at times, imagine what the everyday person must go through with just being bombarded with so many options.
Melanie Avalon
So does it look, I'm really curious by that. So it does, it's different, it's a different experience than walking around in Australia, like the food that you see everywhere.
Barry Conrad
Very different. First of all, the volume of it is insane. Like so much food.
Second of all, the ultra processed stuff is so cheap. I mean, that is sort of similar to Australia. But just yeah, it's scary how many options there are, especially in the ultra processed.
Melanie Avalon
Wow. That's so interesting. Yeah. Welcome to the US. Have fun!
Barry Conrad
But in saying that I also love the good thing is I also love that there's so much because there's so many options for other things like different is literally something for everyone, really.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is true. We represent like, like all the different countries, you know, like you can get all the different food and so you can navigate it though.
Like I'm just saying like for me, like I, I have to like just not even I just don't even look at it.
Barry Conrad
Do you know what, Mel, I think you mentioned this before, but like you said, I think you said something like when you get to the US, it's going to be interesting how you go out. I'm trying, like this is the first week where I'm properly sort of eating the way I did in Australia because the first week was a lot of celebrations and a lot of going out and stuff like that.
So I need to find, find my staples here, I don't have my staples yet or like the brands that I like. So I need to probably take a little while to get that right. The brands of, you know, beef and da, da, da, everything, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Well, you know what I'm going to say to that, right?
Barry Conrad
All foods. Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and this is where really like the whole walk around the perimeter of the store don't go in the aisles thing really helps.
Barry Conrad
It does help, although I did that the other day, actually today, earlier today, and I went to the outside and I saw lines of corn chips and I'm like, oh, damn.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. I mean, you gotta, yeah, you have to just like put on, it's like the opposite of beer goggles. Like you have to put on the goggles that just show you what you're going for.
Barry Conrad
Exactly.
Melanie Avalon
So, oh my goodness, keep us updated.
Barry Conrad
on my food adventures. Yeah, and just navigating. Yeah, definitely.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, thank you.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I really, really liked the study. I thought it was so interesting. And just to put a bow on it, it is kind of frustrating to me like, and like the article talked about and then you commented on as well, like these foods are so bad for you. And yet they market them as being healthy, you know, like high protein. And it's like, it's like the worst of it is like when you see the breakfast cereals and they're like, heart healthy, like ADA certified, it's like how in the world is a, the American Heart, right, or AHA certified, how in the world is the American Heart Association, like certifying any breakfast cereal? I, I just cannot.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's crazy. It really is.
And people like a lot of people at time pause. So then they'll want to go into the store, maybe in a hurry, and they'll see like a bag of something that looks appealing that says protein, but it's like a bag of chips. I'll grab that, you know.
Melanie Avalon
The high protein thing kills me, like it, so look beyond the labels, just get the real protein. And you'll be a lot better off. Alright, so we jump into some listener questions.
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
So we have a question from Claudine. This is from Facebook and the Facebook group is IF Biohackers Intermittent Fasting Plus Real Foods Plus Life. And Claudine says, the social aspect of fasting is the toughest for me. My eating window closes mid-afternoon. So anything I do in the evening where food or drink is involved leads me to skip that fast, leading to inconsistency.
I've tried, but I can't move my eating window to evening only, it completely wrecks my sleep. So do we have help for Claudine?
Barry Conrad
We sure do. Claudine, thank you so much for your question. It's a real life challenge, and you're doing your best for the sounds to stay consistent with your fasting. You've found a routine that technically works for you and then come along to the dinner with the friends and the spontaneous hangs of the birthdays or the date nights and suddenly you're off track. It can be frustrating.
I've been there. It's not necessarily about discipline, it's just life. It can really happen. So first of all, you're not alone. The structure there makes sense. Like you eat, you close the window, and your evenings, they're clean and simple, but socially, it can feel isolating sometimes, the tension between goals and connection. I totally get that. I also hear you on the sleep situation. You've tried moving your eating window and what you're saying here to later, and it's not working for your body. And that can be a really common pattern, especially for people who are a bit more cortisol sensitive. For some eating later, especially heavier meals or meals with sugar or alcohol, that can really wreck your sleep or really hurt your sleep, spike your stress hormones and leave you, I guess just not getting that quality seat that you need. So I completely understand why that's a no go.
So what do you do? I think this is where the flexibility is gonna come in a bit more. So you've already got self-awareness, so you know that shifting your whole protocol to the evening throws things off. So maybe I'd suggest it isn't moving your whole window, maybe create a plan for this, maybe the special festive occasional situations. So something like intentionally doing a longer fast before the event maybe, or opening it, even a second little mini window, maybe with something light in the evening, or even just reframing that as a, like a maintenance day, planning for that. I mean, I know for myself, if I know something's coming up, I'll be, I can maybe tighten things extra tight and during the week and then for that week and I know I'm gonna maybe have a bit of a longer window and I plan for that, plan for those indulgences. And that's not a fail, the goal isn't to be perfect here, it's to be consistent over time.
And it's also something that's gotta fit into your life. You know, it's really important that that happens. So if you're fasting clean five or six days a week and then occasionally pausing for something meaningful with your friends and your loved ones, you're still building incredible metabolic benefits, that's not going away just with those one off moments. And emotionally, that freedom can actually take a lot of pressure off and motivate you for the week ahead. Another idea, you could keep your main eating window maybe as is, but sip on something like a sparkling water, or even like a non-alcoholic drink at a vent, so it's not too calorically dense or it's not gonna derail you. It sounds simple, but a drink in hand, even if it's just water without anything in it, and I think Mel and I have talked about this before too, it could just take the social pressure off as well if that's something that bothers you, even if it's just literally water.
Barry Conrad
And when you do choose to eat or drink, you make it worth it, not feel any guilt, no awkwardness, because you made that choice. So you're clearly being intentional, Claudine, I love that, just remember again, that's not a diet, this is a lifestyle, it's gotta fit into your life and be sustainable.
You're allowed to bend and break with, without breaking the whole rhythm of throwing the baby out with the bath, that doesn't have to happen. Your sleep matters, your joy matters, and the fact that you're even asking this means you're tuned in and doing the work. So, Mel, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. You, you pretty much said all the things I was gonna say, which is basically, you know, there's different routes and ways that you can approach it. But first of all, before that, I love what you're saying about the mindset. So I literally wrote for one of my notes, I wrote Don't Sweat It, but I don't mean Don't Sweat It. But what I mean is getting rid of the anxiety and stress and you know, reprimanding yourself for what you're doing is not going to help anything.
So being open to being more flexible, like Barry was saying, I think is great. I think it'll help so much. And then when it comes to the actual, like what to do, Barry just kind of ended with it, we've covered it before, you can choose not to break your fast. And that is an option. And that and really the thing with that is more about, I mean, it's funny, it's hard, like, it's more about being comfortable with yourself and what you think people think of you rather than, you know, any struggles with fasting for most people. So like Barry was saying, if it's like, if it's not like an actual like dinner, and it's just like a party situation, people really, I mean, if you're holding a cup of something, like Barry was saying water, like people really don't notice people are often more times focus on themselves and other people. I do get how if it's like an actual dinner type thing that can be awkward. I mean, I am really good at not well, actually, I typically like drink because then I eat later afterwards. So I've been doing this so long that I'm comfortable with it. I really get though that that, you know, a lot of people are not open to that. But I really like the idea because the other thing I wrote was was changed food. And what I what I meant by that was, you don't talk about what you're eating. So the and you don't talk about your goals or anything like that. Besides not wanting to wreck your sleep, which is really important. But basically, it's like, where are you in your fasting journey? So if you're just at maintenance, then a day of changing your fasting is probably not going to change much, especially if you don't go crazy. And or you do things like Barry said, where you kind of, I don't wanna say compensate, but make adjustments later to kind of like balance things out. So maybe you have more on this one day, because you're going out in the evening, and you're gonna have more. So then maybe the next day, you have just like a tighter window. Or if you haven't adjusted your food choices, there's a lot of power in the food choices aspect. So maybe, you know, the day when you're going to have a longer eating window, you make more conscious food choices about what you're eating. So there's a lot of flexibility here. I and I guess she doesn't say how often this is happening. She just has social aspect and anything I do in the evening. So is this like once a week, or once every other week? Or is it like, all the time? So that's that's a big question. But basically, I, I wouldn't stress about the inconsistency part, because that doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. And you can adjust for it.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I feel like I just said a lot of what you said. And then the completely wrecks your sleep part of it. It's so funny how like some people like I sleep so well on a full stomach, and some people don't. And it's so interesting how people are really individual that way.
I actually was interviewing Seamland. Do you know, do you follow Seamland? Do you know him? I don't know. I've been following him for years and years. He's beyond brilliant. He's from Estonia. He's really big in the biohacking movement. His books are he's young too. He's so young. He's like, he's so young. He's like much younger than me. And he's brilliant. And he has so many books and they're the deepest dive ever into health related things. And so he's he has one like on autophagy, like fasting. So I brought him on recently for his newest book, which is called The Longevity Leap. So it was the deepest dive that I have seen, honestly, into all the things affecting aging, how to reduce your biological age, it was fasting, diet, all the different diseases that we get, you know, how to what they mean.
But we were talking about eating windows, he talked about he talks in the book about how, yes, it probably seems like eating earlier is better from all the data. But it's also really important that you do what works for your chronotype. And some people, you know, stay up later. And what he was saying that he used to sleep on a full stomach, then he got married, and she wanted to eat earlier. And they both do fasting. Now they eat earlier. And he said now he enjoys going to bed on an empty stomach. And I was telling him, I was like, okay, I'm really curious if I actually if somebody forced me into that, if I would actually like it eventually. Like, how about you? Like, because you you you don't like going to bed on an empty stomach, right?
Barry Conrad
No way. I've been fasting for seven years plus now, and I'm used to having my own med later in the day and feeling satiated, satisfied, and not hungry.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like the idea of going to bed on an empty stomach, it's just so miserable to me. But it's interesting though, like maybe that it can change for people.
So one other idea I'm having talking about this, I'm curious like what aspect of it, you know, makes you like, wrecks your sleep. Maybe if it's like an eating situation, you can just eat like lighter at the dinner. You know, like maybe it doesn't have to be all or none. Like it doesn't have to be like, I'm having all this food because it's dinner. Maybe you just have like a longer eating window, don't stress it. And just eat light like a small appetizer. There might be a way to get best of both worlds.
Barry Conrad
It's honestly so, it's so doable. It really is.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Do you think we should have our proverbial breaking fast moment?
And actually, before we jump into this, Barry, I was just thinking, because for listeners, we're recording in the evening. And I always have to, because I'm in an apartment, I'm on the fourth floor, I always have to, like, when we start recording, it's light outside and then it gets dark. So I have to close my windows. But your situation, are you you're high up, right?
Barry Conrad
I'm high up in a high rise and like on the 30th floor, it's now dark, like the sun doesn't sit here in New York until after eight. At the moment now it's late now, so it's like, it's 9.24 now, so the sun's well and truly set now.
Melanie Avalon
I'm just kind of jealous. I was thinking about this when I was closing my windows.
I was like, it would be nice because you don't have to worry about people, you know, like seeing in your apartment. It would be nice to be able to just keep the windows open.
Barry Conrad
Well, actually I'm looking out right now. It's such an amazing view. Oh man. Did I send you a photo?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
I did, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
You can see me more, though. I love photos.
Barry Conrad
It's I love looking out at the lights
Melanie Avalon
See, that's so nice. Do you close the windows at all?
Barry Conrad
not in the living, actually, no, not at all, not at night because, you know, no, just leave them open because it's like, it's too far away. It's too high up.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I'm jealous is my point.
Barry Conrad
Well, you could leave yours open, no?
Melanie Avalon
No, no, no. That's what I'm saying.
I'm on the fourth floor and I'm in a courtyard. So directly across from the... If you look at my window, it's other apartments looking back at me. So people would see straight in.
Barry Conrad
That's not good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, which we can't have
Barry Conrad
We can't have it.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so for our proverbial breaking of the fast moment, what restaurant do you have for us, Barry?
Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, I actually have a restaurant that you may even know of. I'm sending it to you right now. See if you know it.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, did we do this one on the show yet? Did we not?
Barry Conrad
I don't know, have we?
Melanie Avalon
Wait, this is one of my favorite restaurants in Atlanta.
Barry Conrad
It's called canoe. I don't think that we've done it.
It's nestled along the Chattahoochee River in vinings with serene waterfront gardens and walking paths. It is inducted to the nation's restaurant news fine dining hall of fame. And their wireless is thoughtfully curated to complement fresh, elegant fare. And apparently the vibe is pretty romantic, yet relaxed, which is great for milestone dinners or casual date nights by the water.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this is wild because when we first, because when we first decided to do this restaurant idea, I was like one of the first restaurants I'm gonna do is canoe because it's one of my favorite restaurants in Atlanta.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's not my favorite. It used to be. It used to be my favorite.
Barry Conrad
So this is a first because there's never been a restaurant where
Melanie Avalon
We've been, no, no, no, no, no, old Disney, I've been to.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's right. But this is like in your hood in your
Melanie Avalon
It's really exciting that you picked it and I've been already.
Barry Conrad
That is actually pretty cool.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Yeah. So what's really cool about canoe, I'm just like, go, go on this. Actually, it was funny.
So I've only gone at night, apparently has stunning views of the river and you can go for brunch and see it, but I've only gone at night. So I've actually never seen the river outside. The menu is very, they have a lot of food that you, like they have kangaroo, they have, which I know is a big, which I know is everywhere in Australia, but we don't have that here normally. They have like a kangaroo appetizer. They have like a rabbit. I've actually had a birthday dinner there. I've had dates there. I've gone out with friends there. It's, I love it.
Barry Conrad
Well, off to go then. That sounds great. I'm so glad that you've been there and that you like it. That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon
I do, yeah, yay, okay, this is so fun. Okay, so you go to the menu.
Barry Conrad
goes to the dinner menu, so I'm really interested then to see what you choose because you'll know exactly what you'd like, like more so than normal.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, this is cool. I know. I know. Last time I went I went over the holidays.
I went to the bar actually. But yeah, I've eaten there. I think I've eaten there maybe three times. And what's cool about it too is the location of it. It's not. So most of the most of like the like well known restaurants. I'm just thinking about how I wish that you were like here more in all the places we could go. But they're in like Midtown or Buckhead or downtown Atlanta, like they're in areas. This is kind of like just like off, like by itself. Somewhere, which is kind of cool. Appetizers, we get to use the US language.
Barry Conrad
Yes. What would you get seeing as you've been there?
Melanie Avalon
Let me... Oh, look what they have. You see what they have, right? Oistas. So I'm gonna get the... Wait, do they not have the kangaroo right now? Oh, yeah, they do.
So I'm definitely gonna get the peppercorn-crusted kangaroo loin. It's so good. It's rare. Well, actually, do I order it rare or is it always rare? I'm trying to remember if it's like tartar or not. I'm gonna get that. It's really good. Wait, question. How often did you eat kangaroo in Australia? Like, do people eat it all the time?
Barry Conrad
It's so easy to get so accessible and it's like it's like you are people have ground beef mints. It's like you can get like kangaroo stir fry. So it's like it's not like a just a fancy restaurant thing. It's like a everyday grocery store. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
It's so lean.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so lean.
Melanie Avalon
And I don't think it's legal in every state here.
Barry Conrad
That's surprising because it should be, it's also so high in protein as well.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's like so good for you. I remember when I first found it.
I think it's Because I think I remember I would get it here. I would buy it here and I think I moved to california and I couldn't get it maybe Okay, so i'm gonna i'm gonna get two things i'm gonna get the the kangaroo, but i'm gonna so the way it normally comes prepared Is peppercorn crested kangaroo loin with bulgogi pork belly edamame soba noodles colby butter oreo oreo oreo furikake I would get a plane but barry. Do you want to try some like do you want me to get it like with the stuff on the side
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I was going to order that as well, but I'd rather try some of that and order two of my own ones.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so that and then I also would like some cold smoked Atlantic salmon, which comes with crispy potato cake, creamy goats cheese, caper dill cream. Again, I would get it plain, but do you want the stuff on the side?
Barry Conrad
Sounds good.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Oh wait, they have Georgia white shrimp?
Barry Conrad
Yo, I'm gonna get that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, okay.
Barry Conrad
All the good stuff. I'm going to get the Georgia white shrimp and the cold water oysters on the half shell, 40 of them, please.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
So excited.
Melanie Avalon
I don't actually think that's the price, so there must be like two sizes.
Barry Conrad
I'm sorry, it was the other surprise.
Melanie Avalon
So you want the large size, basically.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I want the large size, the full situation.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome
Barry Conrad
So we have the entrees, it's mains, the mains.
Melanie Avalon
No, but it's not called it here, entrees. I like that we respect the menu, you know, we respect the terminology of the menu. Okay, so entrees.
Barry Conrad
It all looks so good. It looks like a great place.
Melanie Avalon
It is good. I really like it.
And I can tell you, so I always wanted to order the Blue Ridge Rabbit, but they pre marinated in something so I wasn't, it doesn't, you can't get it without like a marinade.
Barry Conrad
Hmm
Melanie Avalon
Okay. I'm trying to remember what all I've had here.
I think I'm gonna get the, yes, I'm gonna get the maple marinated Rohan duck breast, except not marinated because I remember they couldn't make it without the marinade, which comes with toasted jasmine rice, red beans, jerked mushroom, pineapple pickle, but I'm gonna see instead if they can substitute and just give me like steamed spinach, if they have that. Mm-hmm. With some, yeah. Maybe some garlic. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the oven roasted Dürich pork chop.
Melanie Avalon
I was just looking at that and that was my, I was like, wait, should I have gotten that? Okay. I'm glad you're getting that. Sorry, I interrupted. What is it?
Barry Conrad
that's okay you know how the at the end they say chard avocado chard chard chard chard chard
Melanie Avalon
Are you going to ask for it to be non-chard? No, cool.
Barry Conrad
Didn't you say Chod's bad when it's meat, right?
Melanie Avalon
Anything Barry
Barry Conrad
I don't know. I feel like I need to respect the menu. Respect the terminology, respect the... I'm going to get that and I'm also going to get the scallop. That looks good too as a second situation.
Melanie Avalon
Would you like to read it?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, so it's called the Agnolotti of Georgia's Bank Scallop Dash Ramps. It's grilled baby carrot, minted English pea cream, shaved radish served with that.
It looks really good. And I think something light to have with the oven roasted Duroc pork chop, which I think would be quite good.
Melanie Avalon
And how are you going to get the pork chop prepared?
Barry Conrad
Medium rare.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. Wow. I think we will go medium with pork.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because you still can have it a little bit rare.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I'm a bad person to ask. I'll eat anything like rare.
OK, and then I'm actually surprised. I don't know why I thought you would get it, but I kind of thought that you were maybe going to get the duck and beef burger.
Barry Conrad
Thank you.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did I miss that duck and beef? Ah, can I change my order?
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I know you so well.
Barry Conrad
Okay, I'm going to delete the scallop.
Melanie Avalon
OK, wait. Oh, you're going to. OK, that's fine. Yeah.
Barry Conrad
And I'm going to keep the duck and beef. Duck and beef burger. It's got sunny side egg. So does the sunny side egg perfect so it can melt all over the burger.
Pickled red onion herb truffle fries. Let's go. I'm so excited about that.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm glad I pointed that out.
Good thing you have me here. We'll be at the restaurant and you'll be ordering. I'm like, wait, and I'll like stop. I'm like, he doesn't want that. I think he missed something on the menu.
Barry Conrad
Are you going to just, you're going to have to put up with my, uh, eating. Cause I, I really go in when it comes to burgers, I'm not trying to look cute. I'm just eating it, pick it up with my hands.
Melanie Avalon
I love it. I love it. It makes me feel less self-conscious about my eating, which I'm still going to eat, you know, the way I told you.
Barry Conrad
You tell people to look away and stuff.
Melanie Avalon
No, I just, I cover my mouth and I, I eat like very small bites and I go very slow. So like, when I'm at a table with, you know, lots of other people, I'm always the last person eating and I'm going slow.
And then they want to like take my plate. I'm like, no, I'm still working on that.
Barry Conrad
You know what when people take your plate before it's actually kind of offensive like that happened to be the other day like this still like one or so left.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I know why they do it though, because having been a server for a very long time, sometimes you're trying to, you know, get people to move along. But okay, desserts.
Barry Conrad
There's a, what are you, eyeing?
Melanie Avalon
So there's something here that I hope, I think I know what you're gonna order. I hope you order it because it's very unique.
Well, I'm giving things away. If I were, I'm gonna ask for obviously, I think I'm gonna get the pork chop for dessert.
Barry Conrad
I just don't, I don't know anyone in my, I've never ever met anyone in my entire life who orders them like a mains or a savory dessert.
Melanie Avalon
I'll probably get kangaroo again for dessert actually. Like a, yeah. I'll probably get like another round of kangaroo and salmon from the appetizers for dessert. I love the kangaroo, it's so good. And I can't get it anywhere. We should really actually really go here because then you can talk about kangaroo.
Barry Conrad
That'd be awesome, I'd love that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, to-do list. If I were ordering a dessert, I would get, well, I'll let you go first. What would you get?
Barry Conrad
I would get the Georgia strawberry brulee and also the hummingbird cake.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you didn't get what I thought you might pick.
Barry Conrad
It's going to get the Republic adult down.
Melanie Avalon
I thought you were going to be intrigued by the popcorn ice cream.
Barry Conrad
You know, I don't know, like I don't love like popcorn on ice cream sound like that's a bit too much.
Melanie Avalon
Have you had that before?
Barry Conrad
Because in Australia, do you do this thing where you take like an ice cream and you dip it into your popcorn in the movies and eat it?
Melanie Avalon
No. Okay. So this explains why you didn't order it. So this is like not kind of like, this is weird. We don't do this here.
Barry Conrad
It's not a novelty. So it's like, okay, I've tried that before. It's, it's okay.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. That explains. Okay, because I need to like explain why I got this wrong.
Because I think if it was a novelty, you would have been like, Hmm, but it's not clearly. Yeah, we don't do that. We don't. That's not a thing here. I don't think
Barry Conrad
You do it in the movies and as you get your pop your box of popcorn and then you buy like it's called a chalk top and it's like a you know the ice comes in like a rapper but you buy you take off the shell of chocolate you buy through that and then you dip the vanilla ice cream pie into the box of popcorn and eat it off it's just a thing in Australia.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa. Do you guys have Dippin' Dots? What's that? Okay.
Okay. So, okay. Hey, I've never heard of this little like popcorn concoction magicalness alchemy thing you do. We don't do that. The ice cream we do is Dippin' Dots.
Barry Conrad
I don't know what that is.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. So we have to go to a movie that has a Dippin' Dots machine if they still have them. So this is what, okay, ready? Imagine yourself being like a little kid, because that's when I did this last. And you go to this machine, it's called Dippin' Dots. And it's basically like ice cream from the future. I literally think that's the tagline. I think they're like Dippin' Dots ice cream from the future. And it's like little tiny, tiny little balls of ice cream. And there's different flavors like, you know, vanilla and chocolate and Oreo and birthday cake. And then the way they do it from the machine is you pick your flavor and then it's like a vacuum and it's like this thing comes down and like vacuums up the Dippin' Dots and gives it to you and then it comes out like a vending machine.
You should Google it, the Dippin' Dots. There's a rainbow. I'm going to Google it, Dippin' Dots. This is mind blowing to me that they don't have this in other places. Oh, wow. That actually looks really good. And it's okay. I'm looking at pictures right now, friends. I'm getting so many flashbacks. I can taste it right now. I can taste it. I can literally taste it.
Barry Conrad
Cause I was just at the movies on like last week and I didn't, well, we didn't have any time to get snacks, but maybe this was right there.
Melanie Avalon
Look around actually and like report back because I'm guessing they still do this. It is so good
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, I need to try it. Okay, next time, the next movie is happening probably, I think, this weekend, so I'm gonna look for it.
Melanie Avalon
see if they have a Dippin' Dot machine. And also next time we record, I have an article that came up and it was about Australian desserts.
And I wanna like go through them with you and see if they're actually real or if this is lies.
Barry Conrad
All these Australian myths need to debunk.
Melanie Avalon
I know, I know. Okay, so you're getting the hummingbird cake.
Barry Conrad
and the Georgia strawberry brulee that looks really good.
Melanie Avalon
Have you had hummingbird cake before?
Barry Conrad
I don't think so.
Melanie Avalon
Do you see the ingredients? How do you feel about that?
Barry Conrad
Banana, mascarpone, pineapple. I just think cake, I like cake, you know.
Melanie Avalon
I do too. I'm a cake person.
Barry Conrad
So I'm interested to see what the concoction would taste like.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think I would probably actually the two things you picked if I were getting one, I would get that I want to I would want to try the hummingbird. I am intrigued by Georgia strawberry brulee.
Barry Conrad
Okay, Mel, if you click on the cocktails thing, it has the by the glass wine and cocktails on it.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. And I've actually, you know, like I said, recently been here. I'm trying to remember what I, I remember I took a long time looking through the list. What did I actually end up getting? I think, oh, okay. I see one that I recognize. The, the Pinot Noir, patriarch, Paris Feels, Borgone. I think that's probably what I would get.
I know. I think that's organic. How about you? Is there a cocktail that speaks to you?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, let me look here. What's it called then?
Maybe the, um, maybe the Tom Riddle, cause it has bourbon in it. And then I'll also get a, I think, you know, I might actually try some of the peanut, no, I you're getting, cause I think, you know, having, I'm having the, the meat and stuff as well. And then I might have like a whiskey on the rocks later as well. But yeah, Tom Riddle, one of your pinot noirs and maybe like a whiskey on the rocks afterwards.
Melanie Avalon
Tom Riddle's the Harry Potter reference, right?
Barry Conrad
Is it? Yeah, this transformative cocktail includes Mitch's bourbon housemate. Yeah, maybe it is.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Harry Potter. There you go. Awesome. Okay.
Well, we're going to have to go. And now we definitely, we were just talking about how we need to do more social media with stuff. We definitely have to like, for this post, I have pictures of being there.
Barry Conrad
We should put that in there, like a carousel or something, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I'm gonna make a note, add Melanie's pictures to Instagram, perfect. All right, how did you find this by the way?
Barry Conrad
I just, you know, as I always do, I just go for a deep dive and just look for interesting restaurants. And then I was like, Hey, this is in Atlanta. I'm wonder if Melanie's been there.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, well, you found it. You did not. You were not looking for Atlanta restaurants. No. Whoa. Mind blowing. So what list was it on? Like what? Do you remember?
Barry Conrad
I actually don't remember. I'd usually just kind of look for... I'd go by the structure of the restaurants that I've had before and do a search sort of like the same sort of feel or like, you know, good things about it, good wine list, and then a whole bunch of stuff just pops up.
Melanie Avalon
wow okay that's even more mind-blowing because i was like oh he was like i'm gonna find a restaurant in atlanta in honor of melanie i'm so self-centered that i literally i had that whole narrative in my head oh my gosh wow that's amazing that's so cool yeah they're they're super cool like i said it's been they were at one time when i first moved to atlanta a while ago they were my my favorite restaurant and then i found some others but i do really like them so
Barry Conrad
It looks really good, like really, really good, actually.
Melanie Avalon
we should go. It has good lighting too, by the way, which actually, just to like quickly give a note, I actually, if I have to put the hierarchy of what's important to me in a restaurant, I think number one is lighting.
How do you feel about that statement?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because you can't eat in bad lighting.
Melanie Avalon
I just cannot. So like, it's actually more important to me than the food because the food could be amazing.
Everything could be amazing. The theming could be amazing. But if it's like bright lighting, I just don't want to be there.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it was jarring, like, elevated, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
So the lighting here is, it's very dark. They have booth, they have the booths that I like that are like the, I don't know how you describe it, like the wall booths where it's very like, very like very big booths where like a party of five can sit, but you're all like in the booth.
Barry Conrad
That's cool. Also, they have a dress code that says Canoe upholds a smart business casual dress code.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I like a dress code. I'm always down for a dress code.
Barry Conrad
Hey, this is a woman I encourage to wear pant-slash-skirt suits. Wear dresses or pant-slash-skirt suits. There you go.
Melanie Avalon
Art suits. Oh, that's like where you have like the like the blazer, I guess.
Barry Conrad
Well, it's really, it's very specific. I like that though. Cause it adds to the vibe where, you know, it's, yeah, the whole feeling.
Melanie Avalon
What's interesting about it is because I was talking about the location, so everybody who comes there is very intentional. You're not just going to accidentally show up.
All the other restaurants are in places where you might just walk in because it's like you're in midtown, you're in downtown, you're in Buckhead, but here you have to choose to go there. So I feel like people who are there are very intentional about being here, if that makes sense.
Barry Conrad
I get what you're saying. Also, where are we going? Can't wait.
Melanie Avalon
I know, can't wait! Shout out to Canoe!
Barry Conrad
And then you'll be like, he's not getting that, hold on, he's not ordering that.
Melanie Avalon
Yep. All right. Well, this was so, so fun. Thank you so much, Barry and the listeners for all the things.
Listeners, you can go to ifpodcast.com slash episode 439, and there will be a transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifpodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And also congrats to you, Barry, for maybe rapping Destiny when this airs.
Barry Conrad
Thanks so much, really appreciate it.
Melanie Avalon
So, this was so much fun, anything from me before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much as always for spending part of your day with us listeners and we'll catch you next time and I'll talk to you next week.
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
Bye!
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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