Welcome to Special Guest Episode 448 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
Jay Campbell is a 5x international best selling author, men’s physique champion, founder of the Jay Campbell Brand/Podcast and Co-Founder of BioLongevity Labs.
Recognized as one of the world’s leading experts on hormonal optimization and therapeutic peptides, Jay has dedicated his life to teaching Men and Women how to #FullyOptimize their health while also instilling the importance of Raising their Consciousness.
Jay’s website JayCampbell.com (where he’s been writing online since 2006) offers some of the most deeply researched articles on the topics of hormone optimization, peptides, fat loss, fitness, and spirituality.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 448 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 448 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I am here today with such a special guest. Friends, prepare to have your minds completely blown. The backstory on today's conversation is last year, by the time this came out, I met in person an incredible human being, Jay Campbell, at the Biohacker Self-Premier in Vegas. I was actually hosting on the red carpet there, and he was one of the guests on my carpet, which was so incredible. And I was actually already familiar with his work because he is a legend in the world of a few topics, peptides in particular, as well as helping people really get shredded, really just optimize their body composition, burn fat, gain muscle, all the things. He is beyond incredible. So I had him on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast for a deep, deep dive into peptides. We just went all out on everything peptides, which I'm sure we will touch on today, but just in case, listen to that episode as well, because it's like the Bible episode now for me that I will refer people to for peptides. In any case, we had that show, and immediately after, I just knew he had to come on this show because you guys are going to love the topics that we talk about. Since then, he has so many books. I read his book, 30 Days to Shreds, which is a really intense protocol, which we're going to talk about, where it outlies based on where you're at, whether you are a beginner, an advanced, or what we will talk about, an FFO approach to radically losing weight, maintaining even potentially gaining muscle, all the things, the supplements to use, the dietary protocol to follow, all of that. And of course, he talks a lot about fasting, and that is just one of his books. He has so many books, and he has just so much knowledge in general. So I'm really excited about this conversation that we're about to have. Jay, thank you so much for everything that you do, and thank you for being here.
Jay Campbell
Melanie, thank you. And that was a very humbling, awesome introduction. I'm grateful to be here as always.
And like I said, you're like one of the best, if not the best podcast interviewer that I've ever worked with. And that's saying a lot because I've been on a lot of podcasts. So I'm very excited today to be in your studio talking to you and having this awesome conversation.
Melanie Avalon
You are simply the kindest and my compliment to echo back this, and I mean this in the nicest way, and you actually on the last conversation, you called me a fellow Jim bro, which I took. So that was like the best moment ever.
You know, you were in that world of quote, like Jim bros, and you are the most, okay, all of the potentially problematic stereotypes that exist there. You are not those, if you know what I mean.
Jay Campbell
I received that and reflect that back, yes.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you're so so intelligent. Not I'm not saying I'm not trying to make like negative, you know, stigmas about other people, but you are so intelligent, so nuanced, and really have the information people need to know to, you know, look like the Jim bros.
So I actually have an elephant in the room question about that. But before that, for people who are not familiar with your work, could you tell them a little bit about your personal story? You know, what led you to what you're doing today? That's a big question.
Jay Campbell
And thank you again for that. I'm grateful to be here.
I'm always humbled and privileged and honored whenever I get a chance to talk to a fellow Jim, bro, who really knows their, their way around the space, which clearly you do. So just like a hundred thousand some foot version of my life, ex college athlete, played basketball. was the oldest of nine children, always had this incredible voracious appetite of understanding the human physique, of understanding the human body, why the body performed in the way that it did. And later in my 20s, like I kicked in the testicles playing in adult men's basketball league. At the time I knew none of this, but obviously I learned this later. It shut me down from a hypogonado axis standpoint and I ended up being testosterone deficient in what is called class two hypogonadism, which is essentially an environmental loss or suppression of testosterone. And this was in 1999, Melanie, and fast forward to now and you look around and you notice and understand how prevalent like hormonal deficiencies are in just the overall general populace. I kind of think it was a synchronicity in my life at that time, because I was one month from turning 30 when this happened. And then I became cognizant of the wonderful world of therapeutic hormones. To make a long story short, I basically went to a doctor about seven or eight weeks after getting kicked because I started feeling run down and my body was destroyed. And the doctor that I went to was just a garden variety, PPO, you know, primary care physician. And he recommended me to an endocrinologist. And of course the endocrinologist happened to be a Harvard educated guy. And he put me on therapeutic testosterone and then told me that, you know, eight weeks later he could take me off. But after being on for eight weeks, it was like a transformational change to my body, my mind, everything. And I told him, I said, there's no way you're taking me off this. This is life changing. And from that moment forward, I became this voracious student of biohacking, you know, underground drug and peptide. And, you know, if you want to call them steroids, testosterone, whatever, I just became this like meticulous student of experimenting on myself, you know, being in bodybuilding and various underground anonymous news forums and stuff. Because again, back then in the infancy of the internet, everybody had an anonymous handle, nobody used their real name. So in that time, you know, and let's just call this from like 1999 to 2010, 2011, I was using peptides, I was using testosterone, I was using, you know, micro dosages of steroids, micro dosages of growth hormone, micro doses of everything. So I self hacked myself and that's the best way to say it, or self biohacked myself by experimenting on myself.
And then eventually the smart people in my network said, dude, you got to write books about this because you know so much about this.
Jay Campbell
And at the time, you know, I was just a guy that was in, I worked in digital marketing and advertising, both in the real estate and the automotive space. And I wasn't, you know, whoever the hell I am now today, which is I guess a biohacker slash influencer.
But I learned all this stuff, you know, from a cutting edge standpoint and cut my teeth and all this stuff. And then I started writing books and my first book came out in 2015, it was called the definitive TRT manual. And it became the number one selling book on men's health for Amazon for like, I want to say six months in 2016. And then from there, I wrote four more books, actually seven more books, but four of the next seven, all were international bestsellers. Like you said, there were two books on fasting, the metabolic blowtorch diet, 30 days to shreds, but the testosterone optimization therapy Bible, which is still the number one selling book of all time on therapeutic hormones and really is a Bible. It's 700 pages. There's just so much information in there. I mean, most of the people in the biohacking space, that's kind of where they know me from that book, you know, the Ben Greenfield's, the Dave Asprey's of the world. And then I wrote my book on peptides in 2023 and it came out, you know, again, no coincidence. It's only synchronicities right at the like peak of the vaccine injury part of the world. And so like when the book came out, all these people were looking for alternative forms of healing. And my book just literally happened to come out on Amazon on January 30th, 2023.
And that book, when it came out, it's called Optimize Your Health with Therapeutic Peptides. It was the second book on peptides because the only other book on peptides that was on Amazon was Dr. Seed's book. And, you know, my book has blown by his book from a sales standpoint. And again, it's because it's more relatable, it's more lay, you know, garden variety people who are non-climations can read it and can understand it. But obviously subsequently since then, a lot of people have written books on peptides and truthfully, I'm actually blown away at how quality some of them are. There's some really bad ones, but there's some really good ones. And so my newest book is Coming, which is not out yet, which is actually a book on GLP peptides or how to use GLP peptides. And it's absolutely phenomenal. And I don't know when it's coming out because I'm so busy with scaling my company and doing all these things I'm doing right now.
But my hope is that it'll be in people's hands by, you know, right before Black Friday or sometime like in November. Might even come out the weekend that I'm speaking at Hack Your Health. But that book is really, really good. And my copywriting team has spent a lot of time and editing it and cutting it and doing stuff to make it relatable to the general public. Because I think you know right now that most people will not read anything.
Jay Campbell
They want short 10 second video blurbs. So you got to really make it, you know, to the point, concise, short-handed, how can people use a GLP productively and not go so far deep into the weeds that people will be lost in the science, but at the same time have enough that the clinical people will find value in it.
So it's not an easy job or production today to write a book and to serve both the scientific community and the lay community.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. So many things. So many questions for you there.
And yeah, so for listeners, the peptide book is the one that I read before the interview for the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast, which truly was a paradigm shift and which I was actually, I was embarrassed that I hadn't really dived into the peptide world yet. I don't know why I hadn't that much. It has completely opened my eyes. Quick question. Just going off of what you just said with writing a new book and everything with the, I used to say the admin, but I guess with, with the role of AI now, do you find with AI, cause I use it a lot for, well, helping with writing, answering questions, things like that. Do you agree with its perspective on these different topics or does it kind of censor itself, go conventional? I'm just curious about AI.
Jay Campbell
So you're going to be blown away at this and this could be generational. I refuse to use AI.
You don't use it at all Will not absolutely will not I have looked at what people have sent me because again My name is so ubiquitous in peptides and hormones And so I would say 70% of the information that grok uses on about peptides is my information So like I can see where it's wrong and no instantly Right. So you've got you. Here's the problem. You've got a lot of crowd-sourced information Well, look the easiest way to talk about AI and not insult it is garbage in garbage out The signal to noise ratio on the internet now is 95% noise and 5% signal So you can't expect grok or chat GP 3 3 or 4 whatever levels it is or any of the AI processors or computers to truly give you quality information because all it's doing is searching crap and Then mimicking what it finds. That's the crap and the problem with it is that it's so Regurgitates, you know mainstream Calm elite whatever you want to whatever the people or beings that control this realm of existence Like they've got like pattern recognition And so the pattern recognition is always going to default to like the stereotypical stuff And so you're not gonna always get the truth I mean if you really understand how to coach grok you can probably get 95% accuracy, but most people don't So I stay away from it and no I do not use AI to respond to questions or anything like that because it actually drives Me crazy. I know that there's probably some Utilitarian use for it, but I'm just maybe old-school, you know, I mean again, I'm 54 years old. I mean, I'll be 55 in February So it's like I kind of just avoid it But I'm sure there's a lot of ways that I could use it that would really help me like we're doing a documentary On peptides right now and I know the crew they're all like late 30s, you know Early 40s guys that are involved in the production in the direction and they're all like using AI for everything so it's like I understand that it might be a little generational but I Definitely know that you have to be very careful because a lot of the information that it pulls is it is absolutely not true
Melanie Avalon
Okay, that all completely makes sense. Yeah, I use it.
It's funny, I was just doing hiring for my company. And so I was trying to go through like proposals. And one of the filters I use to immediately just like x people off was if I could tell that they used AI for their answers. If I saw long dashes, I was like, nope.
Jay Campbell
No, that's what I mean. Honestly, that's what I would do too.
And it's it's funny you say that because we have so many people that pitch us for my companies to for writing and building funnels and stuff. And that's the first question I say, you know, I literally will respond and say, if you can answer this question, in the next 20 minutes and not use AI, I'll consider having a call with you. That's literally what I say to them. And I would not I'm not joking when I tell you this, that eliminates 95% to 98% of the
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I get concerned, but then I'm like, well, at least I guess people can keep using AI to do all the things, but can they actually like show up in real life? You know? So I don't know.
It's an interesting world to be in. I'll use it. So for emails, I have one trained because I'm an erotic about typos. So I have one called emails and it knows literally just fixed grammar, do not add things, do not use long dashes. And so I'll use that to like really optimize writing emails.
Jay Campbell
I wish I had somebody that could be my assistant, like that's really what I need because I'm such a quantum person. It's so hard, like I've gone through so many people and by the way, I'm like the easiest boss ever because I'm like, I give you full autonomy but I also give you enough rope to hang yourself.
So it's like, I feel like if I could get an AI assistant that could actually go through my emails and delete everything that's non-essential, I would be, it would be the greatest achievement of my life because I cannot, I mean, I'm sure you're the same way. I mean, like I'm a very organized person but I literally cannot see all my emails anymore. And I do have two people that do my calendar and I have a girl that does my live stream stuff but like I can't hire an assistant to go through my emails because the level of like quantum information, they can't process it. You know what I mean? Like I know that sounds egoic but like I've gone through so many people, it's like it's a waste of attempting. And then as you know, you gotta train people. You know, so it's like, you gotta also deal with that. But so I wish I could find an AI that can literally just literally delete all non-essential emails, filter the ones that have to be read like on an every other day or maybe even a daily basis. If somebody could develop something like that, that's when I would say AI would be useful.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, I will keep my eyes peeled. If I see it, you'll be texting you. Okay.
So elephant in the room question. We were mentioning like this gym bro world, this world of, you know, becoming shredded, optimizing weight loss, all the things. And something I have found really fascinating throughout the years is on the one hand, we have this culture where like crash dieting is seen as a really horrible thing. And you shouldn't be taking, you know, that like weight loss pills don't work, diet pills don't work. You shouldn't try to lose weight fast. You know, you should go low and slow, lose a little bit a week. Like that's what we're taught as and it has like a like a moral halo to it in a way. Like that's what we should be doing. And we should not be doing these other things. And what I've always been fascinated by and, you know, hearing your background and like we've talked about is I was always in the rabbit hole weeds of the forums and like there are things that do work, you know, and seem like they do help. So what do you say to people who want to lose weight? Oh, A, want to burn fat. B, want to do it fast. Is it possible that that actually could be like a better approach than losing it slow? How do you just handle this elephant in the room of conventional society and the stigma against fast weight loss, diet pills, all the things?
Jay Campbell
It's an amazing question and I would have answered it totally differently 10 years ago than I average it now and I will tell you this. I'm so glad you asked me this question because when this podcast is over, I am writing an email that will go out either tonight or tomorrow that literally says Jay Campbell's ultimate shred protocol for 2025 and this is how relevant your question is to this.
My shred protocol has changed in three months from where it was in April and it's already I would say three to five X better than it was in April and my shred protocols are the best red protocols in the world and the reason that I say that I'm not bragging is because I have this incredibly advanced knowledge of peptides by regulators and small molecules. So think of every tip of the spear bleeding edge product that is out there or available or in the underground community and I'm either using it or no of it, right? So it's like 10 years ago. I would have said fat loss is, you know, methodical slow to do it, right? You know, you have to sacrifice. You have to pretty much starve yourself. You have to become comfortable with being hungry, you know, there's a lot of things that you have to do will power intestinal fortitude. But Melanie, those days are gone. We now live in a world where there are chemical agents at people's disposal that can enhance metabolic rate, can increase glucogen production, can dramatically upregulate thyroid, can dramatically upregulate mitochondrial firepower and density. I mean, there are so many insane metabolic cascades that can be induced from chemicals, peptides, bioregulators, small molecules, GLP peptides, I mean, you name it, that I would be ridiculous and lying if I told somebody they could not literally lose 20% body fat in under 30 days because it's totally possible.
Melanie Avalon
Wow. And 10 years ago when you thought low and slow was the way to go, this was while you were still experimenting with different compounds though, right? Oh, a hundred percent.
Jay Campbell
Yeah, I mean, again, and I say this all the time, so this isn't the first time I said this on this podcast, but within 24 months, the world of bodybuilding, performance enhancement, fitness modeling, bikini competitions, you know, whatever you want to call for people that have to get into single digit body fat will be completely transformed. Like the professional bodybuilding world will have people that will be standing on stage 350 pounds with 5% body fat. Like that's literally where we're going because these chemical agents are so transformative and so life altering. And I would also be lying if I told you that they were risky because they're really not.
I mean, you know, you and I on the last podcast, we talked about a little bit about GLPs and I tell people that GLPs actually improve biomarkers. They're enhancing longevity. So you know, the only question is, you know, again, I think you and I talked about this on the last call is, do we as a society blow ourselves up before we get to this level of you call it pharmaceutical enhancement or biomedical or bio biochemical enhancement? I don't know. I think it's coin flip, but I definitely know that the meds and the chemicals that are out there are so mind blowing. I mean, I had a call this morning with a biochemist in China. There is already an injectable peptide. It's not available in the mainstream, but it will be available soon that you can inject into stubborn fat and it literally through apoptosis liquefies the fat and is gone in two days. And it's perfectly healthy. You pee it out or you defecate it out, you know, the dead cells. There's no necrosis. There's no ulcers or sores or anything from the site injection. It literally is like taking an injection of an insulin needle and liquefying stubborn fat. That's not a lie. So that's where we are. And that's why I'm saying that within two years, it will be it'll be it'll be so revolutionary that I can't even in my brain power and my knowledge of all this stuff even comprehend where it will be because it'll be so far ahead of where we are. And that's why I'm saying that literally we are now in a world where every three months is like a 10 year quantum leap.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I have so many questions for you. I love this conversation so much.
It's so interesting because I just remember back in the day when I first started exploring all of this and I would think about it like scientifically. I was like, it makes sense that if we have fat cells that have signaling mechanisms that tell them to do things like release their fat or not, it just makes sense that there would be certain compounds that would help with that. This was me, I guess, feeling weird about wanting to be holistic and go low and slow, but then be like, it just makes sense that there would be things that would do things logically. So actually, quick question for you, and this is crazy timing. That was a moment when you were saying that you'd be lying if you said they were risky. I was like, does he mean not risky? But no, then you followed it up to say that they're relatively safe. Actually, last night, I was actually getting my hair done and the woman getting her hair done next to me was saying, and again, this is like an end of one example, but I think it might speak to a potential larger issue at play. In her business, this is wild, she had two people in her business, both ordered GLP ones from a pharmacy offshore and took high doses. This is really tragic. They actually both got really, really sick.
The first girl got really, really sick, went to the hospital stirring up for days and died, and now the second girl is in the hospital with a similar situation. I'm not saying it was from that. I'm just asking and wondering because especially in her books, and you mentioned this when you were doing your intro about different compounds that people might acquire and bringing in what you were saying about the garbage and garbage out, what is the role of acquiring these different compounds, safety, knowing you're getting what you're getting, dosage? What do we need to know about that?
Jay Campbell
Yeah, it's a great question. And I'm glad you asked this question because for 95% of people, they don't know what they're doing.
And that's what that woman dying is. I mean, that's not atypical, but that's getting sick, destroying receptor sensitivity, regaining the weight, damaging the thyroid, getting wagobi face, wagobi neck, wagobi chin, wagobi ass, all those things are very real, happening, side effects, byproducts, whatever you want to call it, of uneducated use. And we are now in a market, remember what I told you about the signal to noise ratio. The noise is so far drowning out the signal that the average person who attempts to use a peptide like a GLP1 has no earthly idea what they're doing when they take it, none. And unfortunately, our medical establishment, I mean, you know, I'm a very anti-allopathic doctor, I mean, allopathic medicine slash illness medicine proponent, but it has failed miserably, and it is now collapsing in on itself. And so anyone who gets their knowledge from their, quote unquote, garden variety, PCP, family doctor, HMO doctor, whatever you want to call it, and obviously also, you know, precurs prescriptions for what GLPs is headed down a very dark path. They will end in tragic failure. And again, loss of life is, you know, rare occurrence for this, but loss of metabolism, loss of livelihood, loss of muscle, those are all very realistic possibilities and actual probabilities.
So to your question, If you're using these, you better be listening to the right people. You better be understanding that, and again, this is just a garden rule that no one should cross anymore. If you're going to use a GLP1 peptide and you're not going to microdose, it is going to end in colossal failure. And what I mean by that is that the pharmaceutical industry teaches people when they buy GLP peptides to start high and go higher with dosage. And the Jake Hambles of the world, and there are thankfully other people as smart as me teaching people about this, we teach people to start low and go slow. So you've got a massive dichotomy on how you do this. If you start low and go slow, you will not have major side effects. I will say you will probably have no side effects if you truly do understand the lifestyle that comes along with doing this right.
And again, we talked about this on the last podcast, but the lifestyle of using a GLP1 peptide is very simple. There's 10 commandments, but I'll give you three. And number one is, are you living an insulin controlled lifestyle when you're using a GLP? Because if you're not living an insulin controlled lifestyle when you're using a GLP, you don't have the foundations set up correctly. The second one is, are you eating enough protein to avoid muscle loss and catabolism? And enough protein is defined as, are you eating enough grams of protein for your goal body weight? Because a 400 pound man or a 300 pound woman cannot eat that much protein. They have to eat the amount of protein that is their goal body weight.
Jay Campbell
It's actual skeletal muscle weight, but 99% of people can't figure that out. So you just say, what is your goal body weight, right? You're a five, five woman, and you weigh 180. You probably should be 130, right?
You're a six foot guy and you weigh 290. You probably should be 100, 195 to 200 pounds. So it's like, that's the amount of protein you would eat. And then the third rule and third rule might be number one is, are you hormonally optimized? Because if you're not hormonally optimized and you use a GLP drug, which is again, a highly effective drug, and let's talk about defining them just really quick. There's GLP1s, GLP2s, GLP3s. GLP1 is appetite suppression. GLP2 is appetite suppression and glucogen stimulation, which is metabolic rate enhancing. And then GLP3 is all those two things plus the increase in brown adipose tissue, which is again, increasing resting thermogenesis. So you've got like three, two levels of enhanced metabolic rate plus appetite suppression. So if you're, if you're using any of those drugs and you're not hormonally optimized, you're putting yourself behind the eight ball to see muscle loss.
So again, if you're on a man or a woman and you're on therapeutic hormones, whether you're 35 or 65, the likelihood that you're going to lose muscle is very minimal. Okay. So those are the three kinds of ground rules. There's other things that we could throw in there, but I don't want to bring those up for the purposes of this, but obviously anyone who really wants to understand how to do this, I have a course that's like, you know, I give it away for $149. It's called the GLP1 masterclass. And I go over all those things and I go over the 10 commandments and all the different things, but it's very, very simple to avoid the catastrophic things that you talked about in the question that those two women, you know, brought up to you.
And again, average people who go to the doctor and get a GLP scripted are going to end in that, that unfortunate tragic, not death because that's an outlier, but usually you're going to end in muscle loss, thyroid damage, metabolic problems, regaining of weight, you know, adding 25 pounds past the GLP once it fails and just very simply to define for people. And I know you have a super educated listening audience, so I don't have to go that deep, but when a GLP fails, it's because you took the dose from too high to too higher and you eventually either run out of money or you hitch a receptor sensitivity and you desensitize the receptor. So it stops working. And then once it stops working, you've got metabolic hell to pay, right? You've got thyroid damage. Most people are not eating enough protein. They're not lifting weights. They're not doing, you know, resistance training and cardiovascular training. So then once they stop taking the GLP and their appetite comes back, they don't have a metabolism to handle their, you know, their voracious or ravenous appetite. And so they eat way beyond their means and their thyroid is slow.
Jay Campbell
Metabolism is slow. And so they, they regain 20 to 30 pounds.
This is very common, Melanie, very common for people that use GLPs. Now let's not forget that they also have muscle wasting and that's the GLP phase or the wagobi phase or the wagobi neck or the wagobi chin or the wagobi butt or all of these things that you hear about. And they're all very, very true and real side effects, but they're all easily avoided if you know what you're doing.
Melanie Avalon
First of all, thank you so much for all of that. And yeah, I opened with a really intense, you know, version like death. But the, the thing I hear the most is definitely the muscle loss.
And I remember when they first started coming out and people were talking about them all the time and they were saying, yes, they make you lose weight. And everybody, it made it seem like everybody is losing muscle. And I, during that whole conversation, I was thinking, well, you know, are the people eating protein? Like, are they supporting their muscle or are they just losing a lot of weight? And so they're losing muscle along with it.
Jay Campbell
No one loses muscle if you do this right. I mean, I am living proof of this. I've been using GLPs for four years. The GLP4, which is CAS 931, which is actually called bio-lipoetics or something like that, is coming. It's within, I don't know, we're estimating somewhere between three to six months being released. The manufacturers of the drug are hiding the CAS number so the research community can't get it and manufacture it, you know, and bootleg it like they do with everything else, which is actually a big joke, but there's no muscle loss.
And that's why I was telling you that like these drugs are so powerful in their nutrient partitioning, in their improving insulin sensitivity, enhancing again metabolic rate, that for people that are using, you know, testosterone, growth hormone, growth hormone, agonist, peptides, you know, recombinant, follow statin, you know, all these very advanced molecular drugs and biochemical wonder products are only going to like the biggest bodybuilders in the world now like that competed the Olympia, you know, are probably 260 to 275 shredded on stage. You're looking at 75 to 100 pounds heavier within the next two years and leaner because of the drugs. Yeah, that's where we're going. Incredible. Which proves there's no muscle loss, by the way. You just have to do it right. And again, the average person is not doing it right. Is it their fault or their doctor's fault? I would say it's a combination, but it's most of the it's mostly the doctor's fault because they're the ones prescribing.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, okay. And I just love that you're, you know, illuminating these concerns and fears and, you know, explaining what's actually going on there.
I had made a note from your Your 30 Days to Shreds book, because there were a few different, few different things of these that you mentioned, like you were saying, and I think we might have touched on all of them right now, but you were saying, for example, that like metabolic damage is not going to happen, even though this seems like a very extreme protocol, because you're doing it right. And then you talk about you had a whole section, which I loved on the problem with studies showing muscle loss with fasting, for example, and, you know, why that's also not a concern when it's done correctly. I have a really random nuanced, or like a rabbit hole question, but you say a lot throughout your work, and we talked about it, how important being lean is for longevity and health. And you also say how important having muscle is for health and longevity. And this is a false dichotomy, because we're not going to aim for this. So nobody wants to do this. I just think these sort of questions kind of can provide interesting information. So if a person had to choose between being super lean versus being super muscled, but not lean is one of those preferences.
Jay Campbell
So that's not possible so so that's the so the confusion is what people think so if you're super lean you're super muscular You understand you can't be one or you can't be one without the other So like if you are like say single-digit body fat as a man and you're let's say 12 or 13 percent body fat as a woman That means that the rest of your body is bone and muscle so you can't be You know, but but to your question because it's a good one because again, let's think of it visually most people When they think super lean they think skinny with a six-pack and then they think muscular The big bulky bodybuilder look right where it's the same thing It's just the big bodybuilder has more muscle fiber typing, you know Our cross-sectional muscle fibers due to their training than the person that's super lean But that but the amount of muscle like per pound or you know Square inch of real estate on the bodies are the same and it's also the Versus the same I get in these conversations with people all the time and they're really confused about this I'm not saying you are of course, but most people are like you can be extremely skinny and obese And that's what people don't understand body composition has all to do with training I mean I get people and again, I don't want to make fun of them But I should because they're so stupid But like a message me and they're like, I mean honestly think about this for a second They'll be like 46 years old and they'll tell me they'll send me a picture of themselves and I look at them And I'm like, oh, that's 45% body fat and you're skinny, right?
And I'll be like they'll be like I don't understand why you know This has to be a guy for example, like I don't understand why my dick doesn't work. I have erectile dysfunction. Look at me I'm not fat and then I'll go back to him and I'll be like how much do you lift? And they'll be like I've never lifted a day in my life and I'll be like dude Your body fat is 45 to 50 percent. Have you ever had your body composition tested? No, man I just look at myself in the mirror and I'm like, yeah, I just looked at your picture You're fat and soft you have insulin resistance your dick doesn't work because you do not have Anything but this real body fat in your belly and it's causing a cytokine storm and all of your endocrine machinery doesn't work So it's like you you have to understand that like body composition is literally everything The fatter and softer and more insulin resistant you are the higher your inflammation The higher the levels of cytokines the higher the levels of you know, cellular degradation I mean all of these things are relative to how lean your body is So again, if you're under 10% as a man, then all you have is muscle and bone And if you're under say 15% for a woman, which is super elite, then all you have is muscle and bone So you don't have to be big and bulky. That's just excess muscle from your training But if you're under 10% body fat as a man You're doing something right and under 15% as a woman you're doing something right and obviously that's reflective of your training
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. That makes sense.
Yeah, no, it does completely. And I wonder, so like without example of people who like, can't quite see themselves, I wonder how much that has to do with the body point set point of the cultural lens we look through with today's culture since everybody, our collective weight is higher. Because, you know, you look back at pictures of like the 1920s people on the beach and people just looked completely different or like old game shows. I wonder with the GLPs and how everybody seems, I feel like people are losing weight now starting to systemically, I wonder if our collective, like view of weight will also lower again.
Jay Campbell
Well, so my my take on this and I don't want to offend anybody is like all this like fat acceptance movement nonsense That's happened in the last four to five years.
Whatever you want to call it, you know with the commercials and everything look No one is healthy.
Who's fat whether you accept that that they're fat and it's okay That's like a cultural moray or norm that is now like looked at in society is okay But let's not let's not get confused if you are fat.
You are not healthy you have Cellular markers that say you have insulin resistance and metabolic dysregulation.
That is a fact There is no avoiding that just because it's acceptable doesn't mean you're healthy So we don't want to confuse those two things even though society has like mismatched it to the point where it's like You know, it's okay to be fat And we should accept fat people.
I mean, yeah, of course you can accept anybody for anything But that does not make them healthy and again ultimately at the end of the day You will live the longest by being the leanest and again, i'm not telling people to be under 10 percent You know I think it's healthy for most men to be somewhere between like 15 and 18 percent And women to be somewhere between like 15 and 22 percent But once you get over 25 percent as a man or a woman You're not going to live as long as people who are leader than that.
It's very very simple And again, the statistics show this you're not going to go to any senior citizen homes and find fat people They're not alive.
They're dead So like, you know, are people living longer now heavier, you know, uh, more obese more Metabolically dysregulated insulin resistant.
Absolutely.
But are they living productively?
No They're you know, they're living in nursing homes or they're living in outpatient centers or you know They've got an oxygen tank and a wheelchair and you know that kind of stuff And so I you know, I kind of look at it as like, you know What is the difference like how do you define life you define life by the quality or the quantity?
And so medical which has failed and is a you know, an abomination is keeping people alive longer But it's not keeping people healthier.
Does that make sense?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, completely. And I could not agree more.
I think it's honestly a travesty that there is a movement called health at every size. I think it should be called love yourself at every size, you know, but it's not health. And also it makes people, because I don't think people feel good when they're in this, you know, obese situation of a body. It can't feel good. It's impossible.
Jay Campbell
You're a human cytokine storm when you're obese.
Melanie Avalon
And then you feel like if you don't, if you want to change that, that's not accepting yourself, which is so backward. Like, I just don't agree. I don't think it's.
Jay Campbell
No, no, I mean, I mean you and I we aren't gonna because there's a lot of great information to cover on this podcast, but like You know, I get into it with people every now and then when I lecture or when I do, you know Zoom webinars for clinics and stuff and i'll always have that one clinician Or nurse practitioner or somebody who's 300 pounds And she will like say like well, what about so and so she's healthy and it'll be like, you know Some fat olympic athlete or short sprinter, you know, who's not fat really she's like heavily muscled But she's like chunky, you know, and i'll be like dude like are you serious? But I mean look this is more reflective, you know, like that healthy at any size movement That's more reflective of the delusional nature of society Than it is about talking about health and wellness Because again people want to like reinforce, you know Again delusion.
I mean that's the best way to call it versus reality Which is no one is healthy. That is obese If you tell yourself or anyone that you're healthy as an obese person you are lying that is a lie There is nothing healthy about obesity nothing
Melanie Avalon
same page there. And I, like I said, I just feel bad because I feel like it makes people feel like they are not accepting themselves if they're not happy in that situation.
Jay Campbell
I love the love yourself. And look, I'm very outspoken about obesity. My mom died of COVID, but my mom was morbidly obese. It was a very like scarlet letter for me because of all the knowledge I have and all this stuff and I could never help her.
And I tried so hard in my 20s, tried was the operative word because I did nothing. But again, you said it. Until a person feels worthy of changing who and what they are, they're never gonna do it. And if you or I or any healthy person, you know, attempts to help a person who is not healthy get healthy and they're not actually motivated intrinsically to do it, they're not going to last. They will go, they will automatically default back to the level that you started a mat. And that's the one thing that I had to learn, you know, as whatever I am, a health professional or whatever, you know, I could not proselytize. I could not attempt to awaken anyone else. Like they have to be ready to do the work, right? It's the whole, you know, the teacher appears when the student is ready. You cannot make a person change who isn't ready to change. Does that make sense?
Melanie Avalon
Completely and first of all, I'm so sorry about your mom. I'm really sorry
Jay Campbell
Oh, it's okay. I mean, she got you know, she actually died of COVID, which was a scam. You know, they gave her remdesivir in the hospital, and she was dead like two days later. But you know, they got their $120,000.
I mean, we all know, who knows how many people, peers, relatives, friends and family that died of a COVID diagnosis. And it wasn't COVID. It just they ruled it that because the state or the federal government reinvented. Yeah, they refunded the hospital. It's insane.
Melanie Avalon
That's really horrible. Yeah, I'm so sorry.
And that's the reason actually a reason I love podcasting. You're talking about the teacher, like, you know, letting them come to you type thing. I love having podcasts because then I'm not trying to change anybody. Like I can just put the information out there and then the people who want to listen when they're ready, can listen and do the things.
Jay Campbell
That's all you can do. That's literally, it's like when you're in the gym and you see somebody who has absolutely no idea what they're doing, lifting or training or whatever. And, you know, in the goodness of your heart, you're like, ah, I should go over there. And I should teach them the correct technique or I should teach them the correct rec. But that's service to self. That's not service to others.
If they come to you and they ask you for help, now you are perfectly okay to assist. But if you walk up there attempting to help them, even if they're doing the worst form and you know what they're doing is gonna hurt them, that's service to self, that you have no right to intervene.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I agree so much. So to that point, people coming here to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast, like I said, you have so many books in your 30 Days to Shreds protocol, it does heavily involve fasting. So listeners, we're not even gonna even remotely be able to capture all of the incredible information in Jay's books, so go get them now.
But to give people an idea, so like I said, I read the 30 Days to Shreds and there's these three different pathways that you can take, whether you're Beginner Advanced or FFO, which stands for, what does it stand for?
Jay Campbell
Fully effin' optimized.
Melanie Avalon
I have a quick question because at the beginning you figure out which one you are. What if you are different levels for the different categories?
What if for supplements you feel like you're one thing, for diet you feel like you're another, for training you feel like you're another, do you create a hybrid or do you pick one?
Jay Campbell
Yeah, it's a great question. You got to use your intuition. I mean, you usually we kind of defer to the higher end. So it's like if you're a supplement junkie, but you've never fasted, you would be probably in the middle. You know what I mean?
Versus, I mean, the only people that should be like literally like the newbie version or the virgin version or people that have done nothing who literally are clueless, and they're picking up the book, they're not hormonally optimized. They don't know their blood work. They're just absolutely utterly clueless, but they know they need to work. You know, it's hilarious. This is a perfect trend. So I just had somebody on my live stream on Sunday night on my live stream shows, and they're from the root cause Institute in cancer. And they're two of the smartest people that I've ever spoken to in my life. I would actually say the guy, I should actually, you should interview them for one of your podcasts because they cure cancer and I mean, they cure cancer. And these people are the two smartest people. They're like ascended masters in human bodies. Right. And so I saw an interview with this guy and I just literally being me, I reached out to his contact page and said, look, I don't know if you know who I am. Here's who I am. But I listened to an interview you did. And I would love to interview you because we, we, we speak the same language and the same lingo. And I think it would be amazing. And the guy wrote me back in 10 minutes. He's like, bro, I've been following you. I've been, I've been listening to the Jake Hamill podcast for six years. It was crazy. So I was like, oh my God, this is insane. So I mean, again, like minds follow like minds vibe, retract your tribe. So I had them on and they had the five stages of awakening. Now I'm going to give it to you right now because it's perfect for this podcast, but stage one is indoctrination, which means that most people never get by indoctrination, right? Because they believe in big pharma, big food, church, big Agra, you know, the external savior. And then number two is physical aspects of health detoxing, right? So they, that's the biggest step, right? Leaving the indoctrination, moving to the second step, which is like, Oh shit, I got to take care of my physical body. And so how do I detox my physical body? And you know, my wife, you know, Monica has this great statement that she said 10 years ago. And she was like, most people don't value their health until it's gone. And I know you know that because I'm sure you've had a lot of other brilliant minds on this podcast and talked about it, but think about how crazy that is that we live in a world right now where the average person, this is by the way, the average person doesn't even care about their physical body. They just exist in it. They eat, they don't exercise. They eat like shit. They drink copious amounts of alcohol, smoke, weed, smoke, vape, smoke, cigarettes, do horrible things to their body, focus on their business or focus on being a dad or whatever.
Jay Campbell
But then eventually their body just gives out. You know what I mean? So it's like, if you can just get to that awareness, again, past the indoctrination stage where it's like, Oh, my physical health matters. Now you can take ownership.
Now you can actually take, you know, meaningful initiative and with intention and obviously with massive action, and you could do anything you want. You can absolutely go from 350 pounds to 180 pounds. Right. So it's the mindset of like being aware that the physical body matters and how do we detoxify and we detoxify it by listening to podcasts like this, you know, buying books about fasting, you know, understanding how to do all these things. But I just, it's crazy when you really boil it down, how many people aren't living their life in alignment with the idea that the body does matter.
Melanie Avalon
I actually have a question about that, that ties in perfectly, which is because I completely understand what you're saying and I actually think about that a lot when I see stuff on social media and a lot of influencers who are the influencers who what they do is like taste all the like all the crumble cookies or like, you know, all the all the food and which is and this is going to relate to my question because there is an aspect of you wanting to enjoy life and everything like that. And at the same time, I'm like, I feel like they just don't, they just like people who are doing this like 24 seven, I'm like, do I just wish it's like they don't even see what this is doing to their health in the future.
My question is you have two pillars of diet. And one is, you know, a largely unprocessed foods diet. And then the second one is actually not letting your diet become neurotic and affect your, you know, your social life and your mental health and wellness. And I'm paraphrasing those two pillars. But that's like the vibe I got. So how do how do people how do we handle that? How do we handle like, enjoying life, having the food, doing, you know, eating the things, and also respecting our body being healthy? Like, how do we do that's a really hard thing for a lot of people.
Jay Campbell
It's an awesome question. And again, the answer is different 10 years ago than it is now. I mean, obviously 30 days to shreds. And by the way, you're the first person for me to say this to other than like my insider group, the fruit fasting has made me reexamine. My awareness towards dieting because when again, I don't want to rabbit hole because I want to answer your question, but we now know that fruit fasting, if you do it correctly, increases metabolic rate by 20%. So if you can increase your metabolic rate by just eating fruit, you will dramatically increase your body's ability to burn fat.
Okay. Now we can go deeper on that in a second, but like I'm telling you that because my answer to your question used to be that it's simple. I developed a diet one day you eat. If you're doing everything right, you're hormonally optimized. You're using, you know, growth hormone, agonist, peptides, or even growth hormone itself as a microdose. You're using mitochondrial optimizing things. You can dramatically increase your metabolic rate and you can enjoy food every other day, right? And on the days that you enjoy food, you're also trading with weights or resistance so you can, you know, you increase your body's insulin sensitivity, which obviously helps you digest, you know, carbohydrates, protein, and fat more easily because your, your body is like an insulin sump pump because you're building muscle. But now because we understand fruit fasting and again, this fruit fasting, when I say we understand this, this is four months old. So this is like absolutely tip of the spear. You've got Nick Norvitz now who's out there, you know, the Harvard educated nutritionist. There's now a friend of mine five months ago. He was attacking this and now he's writing about like, oh my god, like we don't even understand nutrition. We don't even understand metabolic capacities. We don't understand molecular dynamics. There's, there's things that we're learning that we have to overturn, you know, from the walls of thermodynamics because we never understood about phosphofructokinase, which is this rate-linomating enzyme that handles fructose consumption and fructose digestion. And now we have FGF21, which is this endocrine hormone that is massively upregulated in the presence of lots of fructose from fruit and it increases metabolic rate by 20%. Now, I'm not joking when I say this, there's studies and research out there on this. Imagine increasing your metabolic rate by 20% in addition to being hormonally optimized, in addition to be using human growth hormone or a growth hormone agonist peptide, like Tessamorel and Ipomerone or CJC, in addition to using mitochondrial optimizing peptides like BOTC, SS31, injectable 5-amino, NAD+, and then doing that understanding that you're, you know, your fruit fast is 20%. I mean, Melanie, you're increasing your metabolic rate by 35%.
Melanie Avalon
Is this only eating fruit? Only eating fruit.
Jay Campbell
Yes, this is I'll get to it. I'll break it down and show you like what I've done and what I'm doing But I'm going to Aruba next Thursday with my wife And I have been playing around with the fruit fast Again, the the internet knows it is a sugar fast, but that's a misnomer And we shouldn't say that because to do this right you're eating fruit only you're not You know, you can get away with eating gummy bears and licorice, you know non-fat just pure sugar Of candy, but you shouldn't because it's bad for your teeth and it's just you know, it's bad I mean again metabolically your body can handle it because it's just pure glucose or sucrose But you don't want it you want to eat fructose But the bottom line is i'm going to Aruba next Thursday with my wife And I will be the leanest most shredded Most muscular that i've ever been in my life at 54 from literally doing 10 days of fruit fasting I'll be way more Leaninger and way more muscular and way more energized than I ever would be from doing 30 days to shreds No, don't get me wrong.
You can do a 30 days to shred protocol like in my book Which is again, you know for the lay community that doesn't know what it means It's like every other day fasting on the day that you and I mean no food fasting It's so funny. You can't say fasting anymore. You got to say fruit fasting or no fasting for people to really understand
Melanie Avalon
It's like all different types.
Jay Campbell
Yeah, but so but the reality is it's like you can follow my 30 days of shreds protocol and you can get absolutely shredded But the difference between that protocol and fruit fasting is you will be way less energized because again, you're not eating You know as you know in the book There's there's periods of 48 to 60 hours of fasting and the fatter you are the more you should be doing those because you'll lose fat faster per unit of time, but you can now do this and not be depleted energetically because you're not eating any food and just eat fruit and Enhance metabolic rate dramatically when you're not enhancing metabolic rate when you're just not eating Look, there's some metabolic rate increase because obviously if you get into trace ketosis, you know in a 48 to 60 hour fast window There is some increased, you know FGF 21, which again is the endocrine hormone that's responsible for enhancing metabolic rate But it's minimal compared to fruit fasting So it's like, you know I'm a scientist even though I'm not a technical scientist But I'm capable of changing my opinion and adopting, you know information when we get more science to prove that you know We should change. There's a lot of people that won't change But I'm you know here to say that hey, you know, if what I know now If I was gonna you know write a Part 2 or a part 3 because it's technically part 3 30 days of shreds because the first book was the metabolic blow towards diet It was really the the origin or the genesis of that and then this was part 2 part 3 would would say hey, I've got a new improved way to do this and the new improved way to do this is eating fruit every other day and so you don't lose energy you don't have a Decline in performance because that's the thing, you know anyone who follows 30 days to shreds protocol can get absolutely shredded But you're gonna have energy deficits on the days that you're fasting for 48 to 60 hours Or you know the two and a half day window the weekend window you stop eating Friday night You eat again on you know 6 a.m. On Monday morning. You're gonna be tired on Sunday afternoon You know You're doing your two cardio sessions on that on that 48 hour to 60 hour window on Sunday or whatever if you're doing it from Friday night to Sunday morning and you're gonna be tired It's gonna be hard to do that Versus if you're just eating fruit you have all the energy in the world and you're not having any kind of muscle degradation or catabolism because the FGF 21 is a Anabolic endocrine hormone that's muscle sparing. So increasing metabolic rate by 20% and sparing Muscle tissue so a lot of people come at me. I'm getting deeper into the fruit fast now So a lot of people will come at me and they'll say oh, bro That's only for enhanced bros like you, you know, Mark Bell is like one of the biggest proponents of this right now He's like all over the internet talking about this and he's a good friend of mine and he really exposed me to this He's not the guy that created this the guy that created.
Jay Campbell
This is a guy by the name of Joe Binley and he goes by Joe English on Instagram because he's in England. He's from England He's got the massive UK twang, but but the reality is that this diet works for anyone obese insulin resistant lean If in fact, I will say this and I say this to everyone now and like I said when this podcast ends I'm writing an email tonight.
That's gonna detail You know this like Quantified after using it for four months now of like how to do this, right? But any person can do this diet and in one month Probably lose 20 to 25 percent body fat and not have any energy deficit and feel fine and continue to eat on days That you would have normally been fasted on my 30 days to shred protocol. It's crazy It is it is without a doubt 100% unequivocally scientifically the strongest best fat loss diet known to man It's better than keto. It's better than carnivore and remember when I say that I'm the guy that helped Lyle McDonald write the first book on ketogenic dieting I was in a ketogenic diet for three years and I was in a cyclical ketogenic diet So I have more experience than any of the keto and carnivore people I've forgotten more about this shit than those people know and the problem with keto and carnivore in comparison to this diet is After a while and remember I told you this on the last podcast you in you retard insulin metabolism So people that are on long-term carnivore diets have high a 1c values Because their insulin production is ineffective and inefficient.
In fact, I could argue it actually stops working And so a lot of these people that have been on long-term carnivore They go get their a 1c and they've got like a 5.7 or 5.8 a 1c, which is they're like type 2 diabetic Right. So it's like you have to be very cautious. You know, you use the word nuance. I love that word But if you do the fruit fast correctly And there's only a couple exceptions for people, by the way, just so I can say it. And I want to say that the exceptions for fruit fasting people are people that have sevarious NGFL, right? They have the, what do you call it, fatty liver disease. And those people are the only ones that should be extra cautious with doing the fruit fast.
And I mean that by like getting your labs before you start, you know, not eating like dates or raisins or like very, you know, not starchy, but heavy fructose. You know, you want to eat a lot of citrus fruits like watermelon and peaches and pineapple and apples and applesauce and plums and berries and things like that. But I'm telling you, it works better than anything. I know hundreds, if not thousands of people right now, because they're all messaging me because I'm like one of the biggest people that are out there talking about this now who have started this diet and said, holy shit, I thought you were crazy. Holy shit. I've never, I mean, I'm insulin resistant. People are rebooting their thyroid production and rebooting their insulin sensitivity and their insulin production. Just call it their fasting glucose is going down because the more you increase insulin sensitivity by eating all these fructose carbs, the faster your metabolism comes.
Jay Campbell
So literally no exaggeration. I'll just tell you really quick for the listening audience and then you can go whatever rabbit hole you want down on this. But basically this is a diet where you basically, let's say you start on Monday, you eat nothing but fruit all day Monday. You eat no protein, no fat. It's just fruit.
You drink. I mean, literally as I'm, because I'm on this hardcore right now, I've been drinking matz apple, apple cherry juice the whole time I've been talking to you. So fruit juice, apples, pears, pineapple. I love crushed pineapple. I love cubed pineapple, bananas. I mean, if you really want to eat raisins, you know, you can, but I mean, I kind of tell heavier set people to stay away from that. You do the same thing on Tuesday. Depending on your training, you know, I recommend you lift weights like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and I'll explain the Friday, Saturday lifting in a second. But like today was my Wednesday lifting. I lifted with my wife at about 11, 10 45. I was done about 12. I came home and I had grass fed beef and sweet potatoes. So I ate my first like carb non fruit and obviously protein in two days.
And now since then I've been just working and now I'm talking to you on a podcast and I've been drinking this whole entire bottle of matz apple cherry juice. And then tonight I will eat another protein and dry carb like rice. It'll probably be like shrimp or white fish and rice. And then I'll go to bed and then tomorrow morning I'll jump right back into the fruit fast. I'll just eat nothing but fruit on Thursday and I'll eat nothing but fruit on Friday. I'll train again on Friday. I might not train on Friday. I might just do cardio, but remember when you're eating fruit, you're getting somewhere between, you know, depending on the size of the person somewhere between 350 and 650 grams of carbs a day and pure fructose, which again, when you hear that you instantly as a nutritional person or someone who thinks that like all that sugar from fructose and carbs is bad for you. It's going to make you fat. It's the opposite. So your body is massively upregulating through the enzyme phosphofructokinase. It's upregulating this endocrine hormone called FGF 21, which is fiberglass growth factor at 21, which massively increases metabolic rate, which shreds you, makes you leaner, gives you more energy.
And everyone sees this after the first two days. So anyway, to continue on Friday, more fruit, go to bed. If you have to have like dry starch or something like that, because you're craving dry starch, you can have white rice and salt. You can eat like sourdough bread. I mean, there's, you know, Joe Binley has a book. I'll send you the book, you know, after this call and you can read the book, but you know, I have my own protocol so I can send you that too.
Jay Campbell
I've actually written about this on IG and X. And so a lot of people have followed the threads and stuff like that. But basically on Saturday, if you want to have like a depletion workout, like late Saturday morning, you know, 15 to 20 reps, a couple sets, you know, get your body massively glycogen depleted, and then all day Saturday, just eat dry carbs and protein. And then on Sunday, it's kind of like you could probably eat whatever you want because you've gotten so ripped from eating all that fruit during the week.
And so then you basically assess your body composition. If you're a heavy person, you're probably gonna have to do this for a month, maybe six weeks. If you're somebody like me or you and you wanna just get into absolute the best peak condition you could be so you look great in a bikini for an exotic vacation or maybe you're competing or doing a photo shoot, you might need one more week. I'm going to Aruba next Thursday and so I'm gonna do it Monday through Thursday again. And then we fly to Aruba and then my wife and I are gonna probably hopefully get some pictures in Aruba, maybe on the beach, super lean and shredded. And then I'll just go back into my normal lifestyle of like normal, whether I do 30 days of shreds. I mean, normally when I eat normally, I probably eat omnivore on my training days and then on my non-training days, I fast, like no food fast for maybe 16 to 18 hours. And then I eat omnivore couple meals. So that's like my normal lifestyle eating. But again, when I wanna fruit fast now, I can get absolutely shredded. And when I say shredded, I mean, I'm talking like 5% body fat. I can go from 10 to five in 10 days. And yes, I can do that in 30 days to shreds by no food fasting, but I'm much more depleted. It's much harder. Cardio is much harder. I have less energy. Now the people listening to this are gonna be like, oh, Jay's crazy. I mean, he might have fat loss, but what about his biomarkers? Is he increasing the load on his liver because of, he's got all this fructose coming into the liver and the liver is rate limited enzymatically and breaking down glucose and storing glucose in the liver. And they're all good questions and people from a universal dogmatic understanding of nutrition have a right to ask those questions. But what they don't understand, and this is what Nick Norvitz is talking about and I'm talking about now is that this is flipping the biochemical equation in the presence of nothing but fruit. Now this is the most important thing, Melanie. Fruit without protein and fat. The body goes into hypermetabolic mode and increases again through the conversion of phosphofructokinase, this again, super powerful endocrine hormone called FGF21, which is fiberglass growth factor 21. And that massively increases metabolic rate and glycation and burns through all the fructose and the glucose from whatever you're eating. And in the process of burning it out, you feel better, you're more energized, you're shredding body fat, because again, you have an increase in metabolic rate.
Jay Campbell
And by the way, this is just from the fruit. If you're doing all the other things, right? Metabolic optimizing peptides like MotC or SS31 or 5-Amino or SS or NAD+, or taking sloop, SLU, PP-332 or any of those things, Metasred, the stuff that we sell at BioLongevity Labs, you're increasing your metabolic rate by another 10 to 12 to 15%. So again, what I told you in the beginning of this call that people can now in 10 to 14 days lose five to 7% body fat, if you're a lean person naturally or you keep yourself in decent condition, in that short amount of period when you're already that lean, that's unheard of. But this is all possible now.
So we're now in a totally different time and age when people who understand these things can completely and dramatically alter their body composition in the shortest amount of time possible. And again, totally healthy, because what I haven't told you is that Mark Bell, and by the way, I'm getting all my labs done at the end of August. When we get back from Aruba, it'll be three and a half months. Actually, it'll be almost four months that I've been playing around with this. And so I'm gonna get all my labs and my biomarkers done. But I've looked at tons of people who've been on this diet longer than me, and all of their biomarkers have improved. In fact, Mark Bell's fasting glucose is 2.7, which is insane. Like it doesn't even pencil. It makes no sense. They're like, how can someone be eating 650 to 750 grams of sugar through fructose of fruit every day and have a glucose level below 2.9? It's insane. It doesn't make any sense metabolically, but that's because we've never understood what this FGF21 endocrine hormone does in the absence of protein and fat. So we were always looking at fructose. but we weren't looking at it in isolation. We were looking at it with the combination of fat and protein being consumed around it. It's the protein and fat that inhibits the FGF21 production. So again, this is all new science. No one knew about this. It's turning everything upside down. There are thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands of people now around the world using the fruit fast and they're losing body fat at rates never before seen. And again, in the presence of like good health factors and longevity factors, it's not doing anything negative. Now that doesn't mean that we won't see things, six months, eight months, nine months from now that tells us, oh, you know what? We can do this, but we also have to take this supplement, right? Because like Joe Binley will say, the guy that wrote the book on this, he'll say, well, you need Tudka. You need supplements to support the liver. You also need like choline or choline by tartrate for also to help with like bio production and bioflow and stuff like that. So there's probably things that we'll do to tweak this diet as we learn more and more about it. But for now, in the short term, most people are seeing incredible body composition changes and also improved biomarkers, which when you're really measuring fat loss and body composition change, that's all that really matters.
Melanie Avalon
So I was doing like the keto diet, the low carb, and I got really alert by the idea of fruit and I was really scared to start eating carbs again because I had entered what I think happens to a lot of people is they get stuck in this low carb world and they think if they have carbs, they're going to gain weight and
Jay Campbell
Well, you will remember, if you've done it a long time, it does retard insulin metabolism. So in the short term, you will hold water and you will gain weight, a hundred percent.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I realized though, I was like, you know what, I think the problem is the carbs and the fat together. So I was like, what if I'm having the high protein still, but I switch my like fuel source from primarily fats, primarily carbs and make that primarily fructose because I just went down the rabbit hole of, I thought there was a lot of benefits to fructose. So I basically switched to like a high protein, high fruit diet with fasting. So like daily fasting and then eating high protein and high fruit at night.
And that's why I have a question about the FGF 21. Doing that, my blood sugar lowered. I lost weight. My energy came back. I was like, oh, I was like, hold on.
Jay Campbell
about the fruit. So the only problem with what you did, and by the way, what you did works in 99% of people. Everyone who does this experiences what you experience. They experience enhanced energy.
They experience improved insulin sensitivity and production. So again, insulin is right. Remember the key and critical metabolic hormone. I mean, we want to control insulin to live longer, but at the same time, we want to also have ability to modify our insulin for energy production. And so when you're eating fruit all the time, you have insane energy, you know, and that's why like when you're doing this and you're working out again, the fruit fast and in your call it your fruit fast windows, you never are tired. Like people stop drinking coffee, Melanie, they stop taking caffeine. They stop taking anything that enhances mental focus or, you know, improves alertness because you don't need it. So again, this is why I like this more so now than my 30 days to shred, which again, I have to say is my no food fasting thing.
Because again, when you're not eating, sure, there's benefits. You're removing senescent cells, you're increasing hermet or hormesis. You know, there's a lot of other benefits to doing that. But as you know, as the time goes through the day and you're at 19 or 20 or 21 hours of no food, you become less energetic. Like there's no avoiding that. Yeah, you could take stems and shit like that, but that's no good because obviously you're now you're screwing with your adrenals and as I always say, what goes up must come down. But when you're just taking insulin, I mean, improving your insulin production through drinking fruit and consuming fruit, again, most importantly, in the absence of protein and fat, you're not getting fatter. You're improving metabolic rate, again, through the increase of phosphofructokinase and FGF 21.
And there's a there's an anabolic effect. It again is protein sparing when you have all that insulin from the fruit. So you can't. And this is where all the bros get mad. They're like, oh, it's only for people that are enhanced. No, it will do the same thing for a non-enhanced person as an enhanced person will spare muscle tissue. So you will not lose fat. I mean, excuse me, you will not lose muscle tissue. So the only thing to you, what you were saying is, and again, I think people are metabolically different, you know, based on genetics and stuff like that. But the protein excess protein with the rice or with the fruit will kick down or out of elevated FGF 21. You'll still get the benefit of the higher insulin, but you won't have the fat loss that you would have in the absence of protein.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, yeah, my question was, was it, you know, equally the fat and protein affecting the FGF21, you know, more the fat? It's literally, it's literally the fructose.
But the protein does affect it, not just the fat.
Jay Campbell
The protein, so it's the, so Nick Norwitz just did an awesome article about this the other day, and Nick is an absolute dorky guy, genius, but just dorky guy. And he is a pro keto bro before all of this. And so it's blown his mind apart because he was like, this is not possible. I know everything there is to know about nutrition.
So now he's deep down this rabbit hole, but it's the absence of protein that's really stoking the FGF21 fires. So you could probably have, and this is important. And again, this is in the book. And you know, when I send you my protocol, you'll understand it, but you can have MCT oil, you can have palmitic acid. You can have stearic acid and those fats elevate FGF21. So like you can get like palm oil or kernel oil, but again, MCT oil, you know, is usually the best, but so you could take a lot of MCT oil and fruit and you would be fine and you'll keep blasting FGF21. The type of protein that you take is the type is what is going to really fuck up FGF21 production and it's isoleucine. So it's basically chicken whey protein, turkey, anything with a lot of isoleucine is going to absolutely destroy FGF21 production. So if you're going to eat protein when you're doing this and you want to keep FGF21 pretty high, it's going to be white fish, shrimp, scallops, and then the only protein powder that you could take would be collagen. And Nutricost has a really good blend of chocolate, peanut butter, chocolate, and salted caramel that you can get on Amazon and you can drink that post-workout with MCT oil, even on your fruit fasting days and get away with it and not knock yourself out of high levels of FGF21.
Melanie Avalon
The last time that I had heart alcohol, I might have had it like once or twice since then, but in college. And it was because I was always doing like crazy diet experimentation. So I decided to do a fruit fast actually. And I was going to do it for three days, but I decided to just eat apples. So I ate just apples for three days. I felt so amazing, like literally so amazing.
I kept going. I did it for 11 days. And then I went to film school prom, a party, and I had some, oh, and I cut out caffeine and everything. Like I felt so high. And then I had, I had just the normal amount of alcohol I would normally drink. And it literally, it just killed me. Like I was like, I felt like I was dying.
Jay Campbell
So you know why that was so so so that's a great transition So so this actually proves how bad if you are how bad alcohol is actually for the human body So like when your body is got massive amounts of FGF 21 Which clearly you did because you're eating apples for three days all of a sudden introducing alcohol, which again metabolically And I don't want to like kind of dork But like you when alcohol comes into the body it is basically converted in this like chain of fatty acids Dehydrogenase ultimately it gets to what is called triglycerol and triglycerol is then converted to triglyceride And so when you drink alcohol in excess You're gonna be soft in places that your body is prone to store fat, right? So for men, it's the belly That's why guys have beer bellies for women.
It's like the hips the glute and hamstring tie in and again This is all regional body fat storage relative to genetics and blood flow And so it's you feel like shit when you have all that FGF 21 and all that insulin to throw in a solvent Into your body it would just literally like it would be like throwing water into your gas tank when your gas when you were like a Ferrari flowing
Melanie Avalon
Okay. So to that point, actually, because I'll let you know my thoughts on alcohol and everything. So I feel like if we look at, I think, well, first of all, I think there's a bit of a problem with the literature on alcohol in general, because it often lumps together alcohol into one category, like alcohol, or we'll call it like all wine, all beer. There's not any nuance of, is this dry farm, low alcohol, pesticide-free organic wine compared to conventional high alcohol, full of colorizers and additives and pesticides and all the things. So I think there's a distinction that could make a difference.
Because I know if I drink certain drinks, I just feel horrible. But if I drink, I'm neurotic with what I drink as far as the wine. I feel like it's additive to my life. And then if we look at the longest lived populations, with the exception of Loma Linda, they all have some amount of alcohol in their diet. And so you could ask the question, well, maybe without that, they would live even longer. Or maybe it's kind of like the, maybe the benefits outweigh any potential negatives of actual alcohol content from the polyphenols, the rest of the drink, the social setting. It's a very, again, nuanced topic.
Jay Campbell
So here's the answer. Here's the answer.
So I wrote about this in my TOT Bible. The human body can handle four ounces of unfermented alcohol per 24 hours. So that means that if you drink four ounces of, you know, call it, you know, wine, even four ounces of like distilled vodka or distilled liquor, you're probably not going to have any kind of like, what do you call it, delay from a standpoint of, you know, your central nervous system is not going to be depressed. But how many people can actually go four ounces and not go beyond that? Very few, if not any, right? Because again, it's like, you know, does all sorts of things to lower inhibition, to do all these things that people enjoy, right? So that's why they keep drinking it. So you can, you know, and to what you were saying about the different forms, I mean, again, it just comes down to the ounces. Because again, at the end of the day, molecular alcohol is alcohol when it's converted. So like, if you want to live the longest and have the least amount of brain decay, you know, degenerate neurodegeneration, depending on what pathways, you should avoid alcohol like the plague because it is zero value. I mean, it really is zero value. But if you want to be that person that says, oh, no, I enjoy a glass of wine with my friends and it's like great for me in social settings, I mean, just keep it below four ounces. You know what I mean? Because that's like what the body can actually process and handle. But I would still say that if you drink four ounces of wine every single day, by the time you're in your 40s, you're fucked.
Melanie Avalon
And to that point, I don't think people because I don't think I agree and I don't think people People don't realize that like so like if you look at like a bottle of wine You could have like a 11 ounce abv wine and you can easily have like a 15 ounce a 15, you know 15 percent Sorry outs 11 percent abv wine and there's also a 15 percent abv wine and people just consider those the same And then a glass of wine is glass of wine. No Because if you have a 15 percent compared to 11 percent like that's a big difference Like
Jay Campbell
Than the amount the best way i'll say it is now and this is going to probably be offensive to some people but if you are Heavily faxed and boosted And you're drinking alcohol on the weekends getting blown up and I mean like you're getting in sloshed You are dramatically shortening your lifespan Because your autoimmunity is already let's just say detuned for lack of a better word and by adding in You're pouring kerosene on the fire. You know what i'm saying? Like that's the best way to say it. So like You know people in their late teens and early 20s and even late 20s and maybe early 30s They're going out every weekend getting wasted You know, can you clean up your act?
Yes But if you're literally in your 40s and you're still doing that and you're heavily vaxen boosted, you're not going to live much longer I mean, I mean melanie I could tell you because I see people's labs We are we have a national crisis. It's not a national crisis. It's a global crisis I mean I am seeing people's inflammatory markers when they send me their labs and these are normally I should say normal otherwise healthy people like, you know, they're not insulin. They don't look fat They're not fat and they're not, you know insulin resistant But their inflammatory markers are literally indicative of a person who has one foot in the grave I mean it is so bad that it blows my head off Like i'm gonna just this is a person who sent me their labs three days ago. It's a woman. She's a nurse So again, the medical system people are the worst because they were forced So you're ready for this? So this is from june 14th 2025 and again, this is a normal if you saw this woman you would be like she's healthy. She takes care of herself She's exercising She got two shots and two boosters again. She's a nurse forced her high sensitivity crp, which is c-reactive protein is 30 0.51 on a range of zero to three 30 her c-reactive protein on a range of zero to three is 28 Her esr her fibrin activity her neutrophil lymphocyte and her platelet lymphocytes are all 40 points to 60 points over the high end of the risk range And this is a normal person who's 42 years old. So what i'm saying is and i'm not trying to scare people But if you're out there and you're vaxxed again and boosted and let's just say two and two And you're sloshing yourself on the weekends. You're not going to live much longer Because your autoimmunity is turned off and again, i'm really sorry if you were forced to do this There are ways to fix yourself. There are people that can do plasmapheresis. You can fly to costa rica Panama mexico there's other places and you can have your blood exchanged, but it costs 75 to a hundred thousand dollars But i'm telling you dude I see this every day if not every other day and i am literally flabbergasted because it drives me I mean it saddens me Like I get sad just telling you right now because I think about these people, you know They were forced to do this, but I mean it's not good, dude
Melanie Avalon
And to that point, I think the binge drinking type situation like going out drinking all like that is not good either like not never good. Wow, so many things.
Okay, one quick question on the the alcohol and the mental or like the brain. It's interesting as well. I've had on the show, the researchers behind the the mind diet, which they did like the longest or the the I guess they've done the most research on diet to prevent cognitive decline. And their protocol literally like you get points for having wine in the diet, which
Jay Campbell
It's like look genetics are everything and and you know going back to the five stages of awakening I mean again This is very important, you know And obviously there's a lot of smart people to listen to your podcast and a lot of people that are very smart in my world too, but Number four in the stages of awakening is the emotional impact of stress on our physiology Do you realize and I mean this for everyone listening? I don't care.
This is not woo We are nothing more than energy we are vibrating atoms and oscillating waves of energy in these physical bodies and These physical bodies get disease or cancer heart disease, whatever you want to call all the aging diseases due to resistance in the energy field So when those researchers come on your show and they talk about people live the longest from drinking wine There's also a reason that they live long and it has nothing to do with physical It's literally because they are meaning the people that live the longest who are drinking the wine are happy whole and complete And what I mean by that is they do not have resistance in their energy field when they drink wine they do it in the spirit of Abundance prosperity generosity gratitude. They're with friends their family. I mean again They're in a place of happiness of productivity of like feeling You know super productive and super You know abundant they're not coming from a place of lack And so that's what we have to understand is that like literally the emotional the psycho emotional Component of our being is what affects us the most and whether or not we get disease or live longest It's more. It's more than anything. I mean again, you know, here's I'm the guy here talking about fruit fasting and peptides and all this stuff And you're all physical implements but at the end of the day If you feel that you are worthy and that you love and trust yourself You can absolutely live into your 120s, you know 115 113 whatever and drink Four to six to eight to ten ounces of wine every day So it's it really you know, we really have to understand that the mental place the state of being this You know of our emotionality. Are we in resistance or are we in flow is ultimately going to determine how long we live?
Melanie Avalon
I agree. I think it's overwhelmingly powerful. And I mean, we see it just scientifically with the placebo effect with pills, you know? So yeah, incredible.
Jay Campbell
Fat people, you know, I'll just say this, fat people don't love and trust themselves. Because if you were not fat, now that doesn't mean that skinny people or healthy, I mean lean people love and trust themselves either. I'm not saying it's all that way, but like to be that level of poor physical health means that you have a psycho-emotional block of resistance somewhere from trauma as a child, a past life, you know, some sort of abusive setting. You were emotionally or physically or verbally abused or something, and you shut down and you stopped caring about what is very important, which again is the stage two, your physical vessel, right? Like you need a healthy physical vessel to enjoy your life because when you're fat, you're in pain. Your default state is suffering. So it's like when you see someone like that, you automatically know that they don't feel truly worthy of being any other way. And so that's their default state, which is suffering and it's horrible, right? Like again, you and I don't understand that, but like it sucks. And so it's like, they're not gonna change until they get to a place. And again, they have to be ready to do this where they feel worthy of changing. It's really that simple.
And that's kind of the way it is in life. And I'm not saying that healthy, lean people don't hate themselves too, because there's plenty of people like that. There's plenty of people in the bodybuilding world that have muscle dysmorphia and body dysmorphia. You know what I mean? But it's like, you cannot change until you feel worthy of change. I cannot tell anybody, you cannot tell anybody anything about all these things that we're talking about and will make sense to them until it makes sense to them. You know, it's the whole like, until a person is sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, they're not gonna change.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that's a reason actually, that, because I think people can see these, like, protocols, and they can seem intense, and like, it's a lot of rules, and it's stressful, and it's going to require a lot of change to do it.
And at the same time, I think for a lot of people, having these these rules and boundaries that you just commit to, then that actually frees up a lot of willpower and can change your relationship to the entire diet, fitness experience, because now you just follow the rules. And then the physiological changes happen, you experience a new thing, it kind of can like be a backwards way in for people to, I think, have a new relationship to weight loss, health, training their bodies by having like the plan and the rules to follow.
Jay Campbell
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I agree. Yep. I mean, I don't agree. I know you're right. It's a fact.
Melanie Avalon
So we'll ask a quick question about the fruit fasting. If a person is doing this and not taking the peptides that they needed to take, will they lose muscle?
Jay Campbell
No, no. So that's the craziest part about this. And I've experimented again, not obviously myself, because I am enhanced, but I've had hundreds of people message me on Instagram and TikTok. I mean, not TikTok, Twitter X. It's hard to keep up with the social media these days, who have read my threads and sent me private messages and said, you know, I really doubted this, but I was like, everything else doesn't work for me. Look, I've had so many keto and carnivore people who have switched over to this diet and said, I never thought anything was going to get my scale moving again. I never thought I was going to feel this energized. I cannot believe that I actually stopped eating carnivore and keto.
And again, this is simple. You've already talked about this. You experienced it yourself. When you pigeonhole yourself in a carnivore keto diet for so long, your body's insulin metabolism retards, it slows down, it becomes inefficient. Your A1C level, which is your blood glucose measurement level spikes, it goes higher. You're literally a borderline type two diabetic. And as you said, when you start reintroducing carbs into your life or your diet, you feel like shit. You start holding water, you gain weight, because again, your insulin metabolism is not functioning efficiently. And I would even argue correctly or properly at all. And so there's going to be a delay in your body getting back. And so that's why the fruit fast works so well, because if you do seven to 10 days of it, it'll bring your insulin metabolism back and it'll bring it back way faster than any other way. Because I think a lot of people, when I was one of these people, when I came off the cyclical ketogenic diet of doing it for three years straight, my insulin metabolism was retarded for six months. I mean, I remember I was having narcolepsy. I would eat like a carb meal at one o'clock and I would be wanting to snore at two o'clock. It was horrible. I remember it took me six months. And again, I knew nothing like I know now that was back in my twenties. But now knowing when I know, like I could tell anyone who's a carnivore keto person who's been hardcore and deep into those diets to just do the fruit fast for seven to 10 days and your energy will literally come back. Your insulin will turn back on. Your metabolism will come back on and you will start the plateau that you're on right now because your blood glucose is high and your insulin is not functioning. Your plateau will, you'll blow through your plateau right away. And that's what I'm seeing. So there's, again, there's, there's no reason for anybody who's not on testosterone or not on peptides to not do the fruit fast because again, the FGF21 is not only metabolic enhancing, but it's anabolic and protein sparing.
Melanie Avalon
Another question, and it's related to that because one of my favorite parts of the shreds book was at the end. And it was a very motivating and helpful piece of the book.
And it was talking about how, like, basically, there's always something you can do if you're stuck in a plateau and you go through, like, exercise stuff, diet stuff. So I'm guessing now you would definitely add to that the fruit fast. But the question I have is, what are things, just in general, if people feel like they're stuck in a plateau, so clearly there's this fruit fast option. But in general, what are things people can and can't change to try to break through a plateau?
Jay Campbell
So I just, it's a great question. I literally just answered this on X to somebody like two days ago. So, I mean, it really depends on whether or not a person is using a GLP one peptide or has never used one. So I will just say as like a, a very garden variety template cookie cutter answer, if you've never used a GLP, the greatest plateau breaker ever is red true tide, which is a GLP three peptide and very, very simply, as I said earlier in the show, but you know, it stands good to refresh, you start low and you go slow.
If you're a woman, you use what my wife uses. My wife is obviously a very, very lean, very ripped 53 year old woman, and she uses 0.10 milligrams twice a week, which is literally one thirtieth of a weekly dose that they give in the pharma world. And it still works amazingly well. It eliminates food noise, increases metabolic rate slows, by the way, it's very minimal, but it does enhance or slow gastric motility, which means obviously it suppresses appetite and slows digestion a little bit, but it's very minimal compared to like the GLP ones and the GLP twos, which are again, the first appetite in the manjaros. I mean, uh, uh, we go ease, which are known to cause the side effects and to cause, you know, the issues that people have with digestion, because again, they're not, they're not eating right. They're not doing all the things that we talked about earlier on this podcast, but rather true tide at a micro dose twice a week for three weeks, a month is going to dramatically increase metabolic rate. It's going to dramatically increase nutrient partitioning. It's going to improve insulin sensitivity. It's anabolic as long as again, you're eating enough protein and training. So that would be number one. I think number two, you know, if you've been fasting without food and you're in a massive, you know, you've been saying in a very high caloric deficit of say three or four weeks, and again, you know, let's just use four weeks as kind of the maximum of 30 days to shred protocol. The best thing to do is, is to eat a lot of food. I mean, Mark Bell talks about this all the time.
If you've been, and this applies to keto carnivore 30 days without food fasting, you know, doing the 30 days protocol, when you increase food consumption, and again, primarily knowing what we now know about carbs and fructose, if you just ramjacked five or 600 grams of carbs for two or three days in a row, your body's metabolic rate will go up because something has to burn the carbs. And again, we now know there's, you know, biochemical releases of, you know, through phosphococcal kinase and FGF 21. If you just eat, you know, you talked about the rice diet. If you just eat dry rice, four to 600 grams of dry rice a day for two or three days in a row, and maybe just eat a very super low protein, you know, keep that minimal to none, maybe, maybe some MCT oil or, you know, some, uh, Italian dressing or, you know, olive oil or something like that, even MCT oil, same thing, you know, your, your body's insulin production and insulin or nutrient partitioning and all that is just going to go up.
Jay Campbell
It's going to ramp up. So those would be the two things, you know, that I would recommend.
I mean, obviously I could talk about mitochondrial optimizing peptides that you could add to that. I mean, my favorite, which we're going to make a blend on this now, and I don't want to rabbit hole, but my favorite peptide mix blend, and by the way, this is going to be a massive seller is, uh, any D plus injectable five amino and not see all in a medical grade pen, all blended together. They mix perfectly well. That is instant energy for anyone who is a dumpster fire or a metabolic emergency, insulin resistant, too much weight, no energy, you know, tanked metabolism, injecting about eight to 10 units of that every other day for a week or maybe, you know, maybe four weeks, three weeks or whatever, depending on how bad you are is instant energy. That's instant. Give me exercise, instant. Give me improved metabolic rate, instant, like energy to train or exercise. I mean, it's incredible what that does and no one is selling that as a blend yet, but we will be selling that very soon. So I was kind of like an experiment that my business partner and I have been playing for the last four weeks with it, but that product, that'll be an insane. We're going to actually call it the metabolic blend, I think, but it just massively increases metabolism. So that's, you know, that's, you can explore the mitochondrial peptides too. That would be like option three.
Melanie Avalon
And actually to that point, and again, I will refer listeners to our really epic conversation that was almost entirely on peptides on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Yeah. So friends, go to biolongevitylabs.com use the coupon code Melanie Avalon for 15% off.
Thank you so much, Jay, especially because like we talked about earlier, clearly, these are such powerful compounds that could radically change people's lives, but they need two things. They need one, the right information. So you're providing that. And then two, they need the right substances. So right, I guess those are the two things they need.
Jay Campbell
that's nailing it right on the head. You need the right guidance and instruction, and you need the right products that are pure and efficacious.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome. Okay, so bio longevity labs calm coupon code Melanie Avalon for 15% off Was there anything else you want to touch on? We covered a lot of ground
Jay Campbell
No, I mean, this was an amazing podcast. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
We did. I don't think, I don't think there's really anything that we didn't cover. I think we nailed it. I think we hit it all.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And friends, just get Jay's books because it's all in there. Are you going to write a sugar fast book? A fruit fast?
Jay Campbell
I probably should. I've written pretty prolifically on X. I've got a couple of really super deep dives, two of them, which I'm going to send to you so you can read them and get the deep dives. But I honestly think, and I'm not joking when I say this, and I think my head would have blown off if I said this two months ago, but I think this is going to revolutionize nutrition.
I think that as more scientists dig into this and start seeing... I mean, again, if you just look at this from a theoretical standpoint and realize that by just eating fruit, and again, it's sugar, because again, at the end of the day, fructose, glucose, sucrose, it all breaks down to the same thing. But if you could increase your metabolism by 20% by just eating fruit and doing it strategically, I mean, dude, what's better than that? I mean, metabolic rate on a ketogenic diet, because again, we wrote the book, Lyle wrote the book, but I helped him write the book back in the 90s. We estimated that the enhanced metabolic rate from a ketogenic diet was 7%. So a carnivore diet is probably 4% to 5%. I think you know this because you've had other smart people on here, but 90% of people who do keto do it wrong because they don't do the right protein and fat percentage. I think it literally is supposed to be 79% to 83% fat and the rest protein. And so most people follow the Atkins style of keto, and they think they can just eat hamburgers all day, and that's not keto. And that's another thing, and we didn't talk about this, but I should say this just to delineate this, but people have high A1C levels when they're doing keto and carnivore because they're eating hamburgers all the time or they're eating raw meat or cooked meat or whatever, animal protein. And they're getting sugar from the protein, which is a very inefficient metabolic conversion called gluconeogenesis, right? So all that over-consumed protein becomes sugar and feeds the brain and also feeds the muscles, but it's very, very inefficient. And eventually, the insulin metabolism or the metabolic response, the glycation pathways from insulin shut down or become diminutized or just inefficient. And that's why people have high A1C levels and again, high blood glucose and become lethargic and have plateaus and can't lose fat because their insulin is not working correctly.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just think there's so much, so much confusion out there. So thank you for what you're doing. This was epic. Can you please, we should just like annually have you back on the shows for more.
Jay Campbell
would love to. I mean, you asked the best question. So anytime you want me to come on, please ask.
And I'll just say for the listening audience, you can find me on social at J Campbell. So it's J, Y, and then Campbell, like the soup spelled out three, three, three. And I'm primarily on Instagram and X. I do have a YouTube channel that is heavily shadow banned because you know, they don't want this information getting out. I think they were trying to block this podcast.
Melanie Avalon
I know, we've been having so many, and you know what's crazy, Jay?
It cut out for me at one point, and I don't think, like, I don't know if you heard, because I came right back, but it was right after you said COVID, and then like cut out.
I was like,
Jay Campbell
Of course, I mean, of course, remember, everything is run by the AI. So when the AI hits or hears a tangent, a term, a word, a phrase, they can absolutely block it out. So it'll be interesting when you run back the recording to see if it was completely moved out. But I mean, that happens all the time.
But also my website, of course, jcamble.com, there's a lot of free information there. We now are over 100 articles that are on page one regarding peptide and bioregulators. So that's also a great place to check out.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome. Well, we will put links to everything in the show notes. And again, the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 448.
Oh, this is so awesome, Jay. Thank you. I'm pumped up. And I'm looking forward to talking to you again in the future with with the new things that you've learned.
Jay Campbell
For sure, Melanie. Anytime you need me, reach out to me, but thank you so much.
And just make sure you email me and I'll get this out to my team when this is posted so we can blast this out everywhere, because this was epic.
Melanie Avalon
Perfect will do. Have a good rest of your day.
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