Welcome to Episode 450 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 450 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 450 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad, and I'm realizing in real time, I mean, 450 is kind of like an important number, and we didn't really plan anything special. But happy 450!
Barry Conrad
Happy 450. It's exciting. It's awesome. How exciting.
Melanie Avalon
Actually, you know what? We normally, this actually works well because I think normally what we do for like 450 or 500, like the big ones is we do an AMA type thing. And we have in the lineup, like an AMA type list of questions from a listener. So we can, that can be our little honorary 450 questions. Sounds good to me.
Yeah. Well, we have to plan something for 500 though.
Barry Conrad
We let's definitely do it. Let's make something do something festive celebratory fun
Melanie Avalon
Cause that will be like in a year, right? Cause there's 52 weeks in a year. So actually no less than a year.
Cause we record, oh, probably being like half, well, half a year tomorrow. It's happy 500. Oh man. Well, how are you?
Barry Conrad
I'm doing really, really great. I'm doing amazing.
I just realized, well, this is going to be in the future, but that when it comes out, but Melanie, I have not had my Thanksgiving celebration here in America before properly. So I've been to someone's place one time, a long time ago, but that's not the same.
It was more like a work thing, but I get to like cook and or be hosted or whatever it is or host for the first time ever for Thanksgiving is a you big on Thanksgiving. How does it all work? You have to walk me through it. I'm new to this thing.
Melanie Avalon
So this airs December 1st, so happy December to everybody. Everybody, wait, when Thanksgiving this year would have just happened, I think.
Barry Conrad
just happened because what that is, it's like November.
Melanie Avalon
It's like the last Thursday of November. So this airs on a Monday. Thanksgiving would have just happened. Like Black Friday just happened. So people are probably like recovering right now from Thanksgiving. That's like where they're at.
You get all the things now. You get Halloween done American style. You get Thanksgiving, like the US holiday. And then you get the way Christmas should be done in the cold.
Barry Conrad
I know. I'm really, really excited about that.
Melanie Avalon
You get to listen to the Christmas songs and they actually will be applicable.
Barry Conrad
That actually makes sense. I always say that like to people like why the carols make sense in a white Christmas setting scenario, but I've always Thanksgiving to me is like a unicorn because it's just not something that we do in Australia.
So what are like five things or like three things I need to know about Thanksgiving that everyone needs to know if they haven't like celebrated before.
Melanie Avalon
Well, one, I can really relate to fasting, which is great. But before that, okay, so if you've never done, you've never had a proper Thanksgiving, well, so I don't really know how much knowledge you have about the holiday. So let me know if this is common knowledge or like if this was in your, in your mind already. Well, you know, we eat turkey and dressing, right? You know that.
Oh, do you know the difference between dressing and stuffing?
Barry Conrad
Stuffing is what you put inside the bird and dressing is like gravy or something. No, hold on, I'm getting this wrong. That's wrong already, isn't it?
Melanie Avalon
It's kind of a trick question.
Barry Conrad
So, stuffing is always like, I understand stuffing to be like stuffing, like you stuff the chicken or stuff the whatever bird it is with things, no?
Melanie Avalon
So it kind of depends on where you are some people call it stuffing some people call it dressing they can both be stuffed into the bird or not because basically basically like the way it goes down is there's The turkey and then there's dressing or stuffing which might be inside the turkey or it might be like a separate dish on the side It just depends what you call it. You might call it stuffing You might call it dressing but like the turkey and dressing turkey and stuffing dish is like a concept And again may or may not be inside of the bird depends on Who's cooking?
Barry Conrad
What is it made up of? What is, what is it?
Melanie Avalon
It's so good. I don't even know. It's like, it's like cornbread. It's like croutons, cornbread seasonings. What is in it?
Barry Conrad
This is a big deal. This is probably so basic to a lot of the listeners right now, but to me, everyone, this is a big deal.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, let's see. So it consists of, and people are probably still eating it because then you have leftovers for days and days. So people are probably eating it today.
See, I like this. Okay, well, chatgbt says dressing also called stuffing when cooked inside a bird, but I disagree because some people will say turkey and dressing. Some people will say turkey and stuffing and it could be in the bird either way or not, like I said. So it's bread, broth or stock, butter, vegetables, like onion, celery, carrots, garlic, sometimes. And then the seasoning is key because there's a very distinct flavor to it, which apparently is a combination of sage, thyme, rosemary, parsley, salt, and black pepper. And then sometimes they add eggs. Oh, some people add oysters. What? Coastal styles? If I was in New York and I come to you, I can't you imagine me coming to your Thanksgiving party and you have oyster stuffing, and I'd be like, what have you done?
Barry Conrad
It's like, I can't eat this, Barry.
Melanie Avalon
This is, okay, this says what you said, but I don't agree. This says baked in a dish, it's called dressing, stuffed inside a turkey or chicken, it's stuffing, but mm-mm, no, no, it depends on where you live.
I disagree, chat.
Barry Conrad
What do you mean? That's the only way.
Melanie Avalon
I'm saying I think people call it one or the other based on where they live. Exactly right. It's totally regional.
Southern U.S. people almost always say dressing, often cornbread based, that's what I'm saying, rather than white bread based, usually baked in its own dish, usually not inside the turkey, but it could be inside the turkey. Northern and Eastern United States, where you are, more often called stuffing, typically made with cubed white or sourdough bread, often cooked inside, often, not always, cooked inside the bird, hence stuffing, but you can use them interchangeably, depending on family tradition. So you're right, same cozy dish, just a matter of geography and grandma's vocabulary. I'm validated.
Barry Conrad
I think it's stuffed inside.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?
Barry Conrad
I feel like this is like an Aussie-ism-slash-American-ism situation. I mean, I'm going to be in for a-
Melanie Avalon
you should pull people at your Thanksgiving party. Are you gonna have one?
Barry Conrad
I think so, I think the plan is, I think it's going to be like a group situation with a bunch of Aussies who live here and Americans, so I think that's what's happening, but I'll keep you posted if that is. If not, then it's going to be cooking, you know, trying it for the first time.
I've never actually cooked Thanksgiving fare before, like a turkey with the whole thing, all the trimmings, you know.
Melanie Avalon
What else do you have with it? There's lots of side dishes.
So this would be like the Southern version because I've only had Southern thingsgivings besides the one that I went to in London that they were also having like you because they thought it was cute, like a cute idea. Um, things like sweet potato casserole is common. Macaroni and cheese, like lima beans, green beans. Oh, green beans. Yeah, there's a lot of like different staple dishes. And then the dessert, oh, pumpkin pie. Pumpkin pie is like that you have to have pumpkin pie for dessert, I mean.
Barry Conrad
I have tried that before once before and it was delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Only once? Oh, wow.
Okay, yeah, you're in for treats. The other little fact I'll give about it, which is, and we've talked about this actually before on the show, I think probably like last Thanksgiving. I think we've talked about this almost. I probably have talked about this with all the different co-hosts. But basically, once I started doing intermittent fasting, Thanksgiving became such a sigh of relief for me because prior to fasting, I always had a little bit of anxiety about eating all this food and gaining weight over the holidays and loving it so much and feeling indulgent, but then not feeling well after now. And people do what you want. But for me, I still do my fasting window throughout the holidays. And then I just eat the foods I want in the eating window. And I don't have any... It's so great. I get to eat all the things and I don't get the holiday weight gain.
Barry Conrad
That's great. That is really good.
It's like you, you can still, it doesn't, it's not a license. Well, you could do whatever you want. And also it's not a, you don't have to all of a sudden break your protocol. You can still continue fasting and eat the food you want. So what do you, okay. Christian, do you have more, do you have foods that you wouldn't normally have during Thanksgiving because it's Thanksgiving, even if it's in your window or no?
Melanie Avalon
I do not because I don't like how they make me feel. So for me, it's not worth it.
And I genuinely enjoy what I am eating anyways. I love turkey, but I only really eat it in the holidays because that's the holiday food. So I get really excited because I get to have my meat fest, but I get to have a lot of turkey that I don't normally have. Basically, I eat what I would normally eat. I don't eat the other things just because I don't, I personally don't, I like feeling well all the time. But I had a thought about this. What was it? Oh, I think it's also helpful. Like, when you do a one meal a day situation, and we talked about this a lot in recent episodes, but because we normally are having like a feast every night anyways, it makes the it takes away the urgency surrounding holiday eating because like in the past, it used to be like, Oh, I only feast on a holiday. So then it's like this whole thing. And you way probably overdo it because it's like one of the few times you're actually feasting. But with one meal a day fasting, I feast every night. So I enjoy it just as much, but I don't have this urgency to like, Oh, let me do the feasting because then I can't do it again for a year, you know, type thing.
Barry Conrad
I totally agree with that. I totally feel that way. Like when it comes to Christmas and things like that as well. So yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so you'll have to let me know how it goes.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, and likewise as well, where are you going to be? Do you know where you're going to be this year for Thanksgiving or what you're doing or not yet? Or where you were, I should say, in the past.
Melanie Avalon
That's actually all, well, actually, Barry, if we lived in the same city, I'm going on Black Friday, so I will have just gone to the outsiders. Isn't that Australian? You're going to the outsiders? Is that Australian? I think so.
Hold on. Oh, no, it's in Oklahoma. Why did I think it was? Why did I think it was Australian? It's Oklahoma.
What am I confusing it with? Is there something similar to this that is? I don't think so.
Barry Conrad
Well, you have Australia in your mind, because I was right about the stuffing thing, so you just basically...
Melanie Avalon
I think I know what it is. I think I heard outsiders. I got this idea in my head of like the great outside. Like, I don't know. I was thinking of like the Australian Outback. Outback, that's why. And then the poster is like all these attractive men and like they look Australian. So I was like, oh, I thought it was like about these boys in the Outback, but it's not.
It's Oklahoma. Oklahoma, you know.
Barry Conrad
I was going to say same-same, but very not same-same, very different, but I'm sure it looks really good from what I'm reading what it's about. It looks like a good musical.
Melanie Avalon
I got 12 nominations at the 77th Tony Awards, including a one best musical.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I see that.
Melanie Avalon
And the cast album got a Grammy Award for Best Musical Theater Album. Must be pretty good.
Barry Conrad
Must be amazing.
Melanie Avalon
I'm going on Black Friday. That's the other thing that you need to know about because they don't have Black Friday in Australia, right?
Barry Conrad
Well, I think we try to adopt it kind of thing, but I don't think it's, it's probably not like, it's probably really a thing here. Like what does, what does it mean here?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, can I tell you a memory thing situation? Tell me. So like it's different now because you know, now we have like the internet and stuff. So Black Friday deals is a lot of like online stuff and, but growing up before the internet, Black Friday, and people still do this, but not to the, I don't know if they do it to the extent that they did before, it was like, you had to physically go to the stores and that's where all the deals were.
So people like Black Friday was like, you get up at like 6 a.m. and like, go to the store. It's like stressful. That's intense. I know people still do it, I think at like Walmart and stuff, but I do not venture into the stores on Black Friday.
Barry Conrad
Is that when you see all those things, like people fighting over things in the stores and stuff?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like for most Americans like if you say Black Friday, we just get this like because like it's like that vibe
Barry Conrad
Why put yourself through it? Just stay home and order online.
Melanie Avalon
Now it's all online. And so ironically, and I don't like this being the answer, because it kind of sounds like Scrooge, but Black Friday is like the busiest time. If you're like an entrepreneur with like a product line, it's like the busiest time for work. So even though you want to be, you know, I mean, I do the family things and everything. But it's a very busy time.
Because it's like your biggest sales of the year, usually. There's a lot to that goes into it. Do you think you'll fast that day?
Barry Conrad
You know what, I probably will fast up until whenever the festivities begin, you know, like, you know, which could be early, could be later. On holidays, a rule of thumb for me is I don't necessarily just go off just all day, but I will be more lenient and usually in the lead up, I'll prepare myself for it so that I'm not going to be undoing everything.
So I might be a bit more tight on my food choices and things like that, so that I can enjoy it a little bit more because my approach is a bit more liberal to Melanie's, which is totally fine. Everyone has different approaches, so I will enjoy it. I won't be crazy, but I'll eat the things that I want to eat, but not necessarily the all day, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think everybody should do what they want. I really appreciate your approach.
I think you have a very healthy approach to how you approach fasting and you're eating and everything. So like the Barry Conrad style of it, I'm like, I endorse. I don't do it, but I endorse it.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's also one of those things where developing a healthy relationship with food has taken a while for me as well. And so doing it that way keeps me out of a diet brain from the past.
So I like to enjoy and have zero guilt and then just I find it super easy just to jump straight back into my protocol. It's not something that I have to warm into. I can go from zero to 100. You know, that's just sort of my personality. So I can just stop the next day.
Melanie Avalon
That's the way I am. I can jump right. I mean, if I were to, like, it just, I've always been that way. Like I'm very good at like jumping right back in. I actually, I look forward to it.
Barry Conrad
And then I usually just takes, I just know my body at this point. So they usually just take me maybe a few days to just drop that water weight and that extra glycogen and stuff.
And I'll just be back to my feeling like my normal self again and looking like my normal self again. Not freaking out about, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I will do a quick plug, something that will really help people during all the holiday feasting, assuming they're out by now, get my digestive enzymes, because they should be out and they will be a game changer for all of the holiday eating, I promise you. They help you break down all the different types of foods, so protein, fat, carbs, fiber, no problematic ingredients, and they ease digestive distress, help you assimilate nutrients, all the things.
So, hopefully, they're out by now, and if so, you can get them at AvalonX.us. They're called AvalonX Digest, and you can use the coupon code IF Podcast for 10% off. So, shameless plug. Do it. Shall we jump into some fasting-related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's jump in.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I have a study to start us off with. So this study was published in May 2022 in the journal is called Curious. And the title of the study is Potential Effects of Prolonged Water-Only Fasting Followed by a Whole Plant Food Diet on Salty and Sweet Taste Sensitivity and Perceived Intensity, Food Liking, and Dietary Intake. And so the background on finding this story, I specifically wanted to find a study on fasting that would look at our taste perception after fasting. So that's what I was looking for.
I found it and what's funny is I read the title and I was like, I bet I know who wrote this. And I was right. It's Alan Goldhammer, who I've actually had on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. So that's super cool. He runs the True North Health Center in California, which is like a fasting clinic. He is very, you can probably tell by the title, they do a whole plant food vegan diet. So not something I personally would follow. I would be starving and all the things, but I do really like all the research they do on fasting and the things that they find. So the setup was they had 30 people enrolled and it actually was conducted a while ago, even though it was published in 2022, but it was October 2017 through November 2018. 30 people, they were aged 18 to 75 and they did a water only fast for five to 14 days. So this isn't like a daily intermittent fast. This is a longer fast. I would love to see this type of research on shorter fasting, but it's really interesting regardless.
And so basically the way it was set up was they did it this fast anywhere, like I said, between five to 14 days. And then they had a vegan whole foods diet without added, there was no added salt, no added oil, no added sugar. And then they did these tests where they actually had salty water and sugary water. And they had it at different levels of saltiness and sugariness. And then they had people taste it and they determined a few different things. They determined how sensitive they were to it. So basically at what level could they actually detect the level of sweetness and saltiness? And then they also checked their intensity perception. So basically given how much salt or sugar was in there, did the salt or sugar tastes saltier or less salty or did it taste sweeter or less sweet? So for both, For both the sweet and the salty taste, their sensitivity increased so they could detect the salt and they could detect the sugar earlier at a lower concentration than they could before fasting. And then for the sweet taste and the salty taste, it actually was two different things. So for the salt, they found that the salt tasted saltier, but for the sweet, it actually tasted less sweet at higher levels. And so things that we can extrapolate from this is that in general, it seems that fasting kind of recalibrates your taste buds so that you taste salt and you taste sweet, you're more in tune with it. So you can eat foods that, you know, because processed foods are so high in sugar and this allows you to eat natural whole foods and then actually like you become more aware of the salt and sugar in them.
Melanie Avalon
So it can help with just enjoying whole foods more than like processed foods. For the intensity level, because I did a lot of like thinking about this because it was opposite findings, but basically with the salt because you detected earlier and it feels more intense, that also can be a barrier to, you know, you're not going to seek out as much salty food because things will taste saltier, they'll just taste saltier. And then for the sweet, like I said, I've done a lot of thinking about this, but basically things that were sweet tasted less sweet at the same levels. So a positive benefit from this could be that like super sweet processed foods that would taste really sweet and give us that, you know, big dopamine hit actually wouldn't have that much of an effect because the sweet intensity level actually dropped down a little bit. So their conclusion was that this had a beneficial effect on our taste buds.
Doing a fast could kind of, you know, like reset your taste buds and help you enjoy whole foods more than processed foods. It's something that I intuitively, intuitively have noticed for me personally and that when I do fasting, and again, I'm not fasting for like five to 14 days, but I definitely, I feel like I taste food better. It doesn't become, I feel like once you've been like eating a lot, especially if you're eating higher salt or higher sugar, everything kind of like runs together. You just feel like less sensitive to it. You feel like you need more of it to get that dopamine hit. But after fasting, things just taste more, you just taste better. And I feel more in tune with them for me personally. So what are your thoughts, Barry?
Barry Conrad
This is super interesting to me and, and also not super surprising to me as well. And especially the, how things are heightened after fasting, obviously not fasting as long and under those conditions, but even it's, it's kind of an annoying thing for it's a very specific example, but I used to love like I was a fanatic about top deck, uh, Cadbury chocolate.
So it's like the top is like white chocolate. The bottom is milk chocolate. I was obsessed with it for so long. It was my favorite chocolate. And then the longer I fasted, like over a few years, this is maybe, maybe four years ago or so, I just didn't like it as much, which sucked. I'm like, I wanted to keep liking it just for the nostalgia, but my taste buds quote unquote changed. So I wonder if this has something to do with, you know what I'm saying? So just my taste for a change, like the sugariness, it was too much.
Melanie Avalon
to that point because I left out like one of the other things they looked at, which was the liking factor of it. And they did find afterwards that there was a decreased salty sweet food liking trend and a significant decrease in salty, fatty, sweet and fatty food liking at the follow-up visit.
So A, it's really cool that the effects lasted, but B, it's kind of what you're speaking to, which is that people didn't like, which not to make it sad, but they didn't like as much these foods, which before they would have really liked, like you just mentioned with the Cadbury. Because that would be like, I mean, because salty, fatty, sweet and fatty, that would be like sweet and fatty, a sweet and fatty food for sure. Yeah. So, but I feel like, I feel like if you were to keep eating the, that's a question, I guess. Do you think if you were to like keep eating that regularly, that you would start craving it more or wanting it more?
Barry Conrad
I think so because it speaks to, again, what you were saying how the more you have of ultra processed foods, for example, which is super sugary, super salty, you need more of it to hit that dopamine level, you know, to enjoy it because you're so used to it. It's amazing.
It speaks to the adaptability of just us as humans. The more you have something, the more you want it. And the less you have something, it's like, oh, it's almost like whiplash because it kind of raises the question, it's not just willpower that the body kind of actually changes how things taste. And also I wonder, do the people end up craving healthier foods after this experiment? And I mean, for like how long after this experiment or was it just for a temporary time period, you know, and even their weights, like the, you mentioned the five kilos, like was, do we know if that was mostly water weight or something more lasting? Do we know much about that? Do they keep it off?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I can answer one of the questions for sure. So I just checked and the follow-up visit was 30 days later, and they still had that experience. So it lasted at least a month of their tastes being adjusted. I guess we don't know what they were eating on their own after the month.
This links to another study that I have not read, but it does say that there's another study that has been done and has noticed, quote, it says, this is an agreement with previous data showing that salty and sweet taste recognition sensitivity increased after only 13 hours of water-only fasting. So we're definitely getting these effects, I think, from our even daily intermittent fasting.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I was going to ask, like, I wonder if it would happen with a shorter fast, like, a 24, like, maybe a couple, a couple of days or if it needs to be this full on water only experience for a while, where it could actually be shorter.
Melanie Avalon
Well, yeah, and especially if that other one was just 13 hours, and if we're doing, you know, like 20 hours or so, then we're probably like really, you know, getting our taste buds primed each day with fasting.
Barry Conrad
It's interesting. I mentioned a few years ago that when I was doing destiny, the director gave intermittent fasting ago. And one of the first things that she told me even after the first day was, Oh, my gosh, the food tastes better. After having a break, like your taste is enhanced.
And if someone can experience that being so new to it, then it makes total sense that doing it over the long term, your taste buds do adjust where you crave, you just crave different things.
Melanie Avalon
I remember because I have this memory. I think the last time I ate like a traditional cake situation, I know when it was. It was my birthday in 20, oh man, what year would that have been? Probably 2014 or 20, probably man, was it that long ago? Probably like 2014 or 2015 and I was doing fasting and my paleo and everything.
But we went to actually Fleming's Steakhouse and that's when I worked at Fleming's. I wasn't planning on having the chocolate lava cake, but I knew it was gluten-free and it was my birthday. I was like, you know what? This would be good for me to taste it because then as a server, I can give my actual accurate opinion on this dish. I just remember the sweetness of it was shocking to me. I was like, this is wild. You were saying something about it actually literally tasting different. I think it literally does taste different in your mind, in your perception. It tastes like a drug.
Barry Conrad
It does.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, actually, when I ate the muffins for Zoe, that was really sweet to me.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, how was that? Because I know that you're doing it for like, you're doing it for health reasons.
Was it still, did it still kind of feel weird or slash wrong or slash foreign that you were having a muffin, like a muffin, even though it was for Zoe?
Melanie Avalon
Were you listening to the show then? Do you remember Jen and I talking about it, leading up to it, our bet that we had?
Barry Conrad
What was the bet? I know you were talking about it, but yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, cause Jen would say all the time, like these muffins taste horrible. Like, you know, they're, they're so disgusting. I have to choke down these muffins.
And I was like, Jen, I was like, this is going to take, I was like, I have not had refined sugar and flour and I don't even know when. So this, I was like, this is going to taste amazing. And she was like, no, it's not, you're not going to like it. I was like, it's going to take, and literally Berry, I tasted that muffin and it tastes, it tasted like the most epic drug induced high of dopamine. It was amazing. It was euphoria. And then I actually did a poll in the Facebook group and I was pretty accurate. I asked people, I asked, I did all the different options of like, do you eat a whole foods based diet or do you eat processed foods and do you like the muffins or do you not like the muffins? And there was a really strong correlation between people who ate like processed foods and normally ate like sugar and stuff, didn't like the muffins, but people who ate like a whole foods type diet loved, like loved the muffins.
Barry Conrad
interesting. Do you think you'd ever do another experiment like that again?
Melanie Avalon
It was so hard to do, it was horrible. It was like the worst day of my life because I had this experience of, because the way that the setup works is you're fasting, you have the muffin and then you can't eat again for like four hours and you have to eat like another muffin. So I had to like have this one delicious muffin and then my blood sugar was like all over the place and I had to fast in the fed state for four hours after a highly processed sugar rich muffin. It was the worst four hours of my life and then I had to eat another muffin. It was so bad, I hated it.
That's torture. I know, it was not fun but you do learn a lot. You learn about how you process carbs or sugar, fat and you do like a stool test and yes. So shout out to Zoe, we actually have a link.
Barry Conrad
Well, I would do that if I didn't have to do the muffin thing because that actually sounds like hell.
Melanie Avalon
Could you do it? Literally, Barry, I was, I can't even describe how much I was dreading doing it. It's just for.
Barry Conrad
day though, right?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. It was worth it with the information
Barry Conrad
But if you, okay, so here's the question. So how many muffins do you have to have during the day?
So you have the two muffins and then after you do the second one, then you can eat normally again or no?
Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to remember. Yes, you can, but I'm trying to remember like I think you eat the second muffin and then you wait I don't think it's the same amount of time, but i'm not positive, but I did eat that night like my normal meal.
So
Barry Conrad
It's more like that just the initial yeah, that still doesn't sound great. It doesn't sound fun to do
Melanie Avalon
The information is really interesting, and I'll have to find the link. It's zoe.com, Z-O-E.com, and I should check on this.
You should be able to use the Code IF podcast for a discount, I think. The founder, Tim Spector, who has a lot of really incredible books and I've had him on the show, he's actually going to be at the, which will have just happened, the Eudaimonia conference. So I'm hoping I can maybe meet him in person.
Barry Conrad
He's great, I've seen, I follow him on Instagram, I think, and he's super interesting what he shares.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, he's I love his content. So yeah, any other thoughts on the study?
Barry Conrad
I wonder if there's a similar way to get these benefits for people who are trying to ease into fasting or if they should just, I mean, you did say 13 hours, this is not long.
Melanie Avalon
So I think a combination of, I think you're going to get these effects, these benefits with your daily intermittent fasting for sure. And then if you change your food choices to make sure that you're breaking your fast with like whole foods, I think that'll help train you to enjoy the whole foods more, you know, help with your taste perception. So I think the benefits really do extend to like a daily intermittent fasting type pattern.
Barry Conrad
I'd be really, I wish I could see a visual representation of chemically what's happening in our bodies that make it a taste buds, quote unquote change.
Melanie Avalon
like literally what's happening on our taste buds.
Barry Conrad
or in our brain just to kind of see like why this resetting happens and you know why it feels rewarding why it quote-unquote changes you know and when it changes at what point
Melanie Avalon
I would gather that it's like a few different things, but one thing I would gather is that like if you're like a hunter gatherer in the facet state, you really need food. So you really need to be sensitive to where it is, you know? So it makes sense that your senses become hypersensitive.
And then it makes sense that if you are totally makes sense that if you're like inundated with something, like the, well, actually, this makes this helps explain the sugar salt thing more. Like why it was slightly different findings for the intensity of it. So something like salt, you, oh, this totally makes sense. Something like salt, you don't need a ton of salt, but you do need salt. So you would become more sensitive to its location, like when it's even present. But then it would taste saltier because you don't need to like be eating all the salt. Like, you know, we don't go and eat like a block of salt. So it makes sense that you would be more sensitive to it, but that it would taste saltier once you do taste it.
Compared to sweet, it's the opposite message where we could be eating like a ton of like carbs and stuff, but once we're getting a ton of that, we wouldn't, our bodies wouldn't want to like keep eating that per se. So it makes sense that like, and it, that this sugar when it, when it's at a higher level actually doesn't taste as sweet because it's kind of like a dulling, like a numbing effect of, of having the sugar.
I went back and forth. I talked about chat with chat GPT about this article for like 30 minutes, because I was like, I don't understand why the salt and the sugar are the same for sensitivity, but, but different for intensity.
Barry Conrad
It is very, very interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yes, it was saying more the sugar it was about like, it's a good thing because like I said earlier that now things that are super sweet that would give you like a dopamine hit won't as much because they won't taste as sweet, which makes sense. But I also evolutionarily, it actually makes sense to like that, like that numbing and dulling effect.
Barry Conrad
I can't imagine eating intensely sugary things all day, and there are plenty of people who do do that because they're used to it, their bodies have become used to it.
Melanie Avalon
And now, like, I just am such a protein girl, like, I would be so starving.
Barry Conrad
I love protein so much.
Melanie Avalon
Protein is so good. Like the umami taste, I feel like there are like sugary people, salty people, umami people, and it might change throughout your life.
But you know, like some people really crave sweet, some people really crave salt. I crave umami.
Barry Conrad
That sounds like a t-shirt or like a slogan. I do also think it's not maha.
I remember we talked about the whole maha thing. It's not a maha thing. It's just proteins, just delicious. It's not a gimmick.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, how it's like politicized, like how in the world protein is politicized is beyond me. I think everything gets politicized now. Like you can't say anything without it becoming political.
Barry Conrad
That was an awesome find, by the way. It's super interesting and it was making me think about all the things that I don't like anymore or that I don't crave or that I want.
I wish I did crave, but I don't anymore. So should we jump into some listener questions, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, Wolf, yes. Let's do it.
Barry Conrad
So Nancy Nelson on Facebook asks, what is the current take on MCTC8 in coffee while fasting added to foods, etc? What do you think?
Melanie Avalon
Do you use MCT oil ever?
Barry Conrad
I have dabbled with it, but I don't really ever use it now, no.
Melanie Avalon
I have used it more in the past, but basically for listeners. So it's interesting because people will say coconut oil is high in MCTs. Coconut oil is actually only a percent MCTs. If you want pure MCT oil, you have to get MCT oil. And what's magical about it is that it is a very ketogenic fat and it's processed, unlike long chain fatty acids, it's actually processed by the liver. So basically when you have MCT oil, it goes straight to your liver to get processed. So it provides quicker, faster energy and then it converts into ketones. So it does put you into a ketogenic state, but not because you're creating your own ketones from your body, rather you're creating ketones from this exogenous fat that you ate.
C8, so there's different versions, there's C8, there's C10, there's C12. So C12 is technically medium chain, but it's like right on the border of medium and long chain and it's lauric acid and it is not completely processed by the liver. Some of it is processed like a normal long chain fat. So in any case, C8, C10, Nancy was asking, what is the current take? Like honestly, Nancy, my thoughts haven't changed at all. And I've been talking about this for like a decade because there's not really anything in my opinion new to find, which is that basically, yes, it's a ketogenic oil. That doesn't mean you're going to burn your own body fat, you're going to be burning that fat. Yes, it's processed by the liver. Yes, it can give you energy. Yes, it can put you into a ketogenic state. Some people it may help with. So for example, some people add it to their coffee and things like that while fasting. So not a clean fast, but they have it while fasting and they find that that helps get them into this ketogenic state, kind of like strokes their body more used to making ketones and it might help with hunger. But just know that if you do that, you're going to be burning that, not your body fat.
You can also add it in the past, what I've done sometimes with like a low carb diet is I would only for added fats, I would only use MCT oil. I find that that really like makes my metabolism. I get really hot from it and I actually can find, I've actually found that it supports weight loss. Even to the extent that people will be like, oh, well, you're adding hundreds of calories of oil, even if it increases your metabolism, you added so many calories that it's going to cancel each other out, you have to experiment for yourself. I found in the past that it, the ongoing key to like metabolism stroking thermogenic effect of it did help with weight loss for me. It's definitely an easy switch if you're doing like a low carb diet and you're adding like olive oil or butter. If you switch that out for MCT oil, like the same amount of calories, you're probably going to lose weight because now you are increasing your metabolism, that fat actually can't be stored as body fat because it's processed by the liver, et cetera.
What I will say though is if you get it, definitely get it in a glass bottle. And oh, so the C8 version is even faster burning more ketogenic than the C10. So that's why I would get the C8 only, like she's asking about.
Melanie Avalon
I like, there's a brand I love, I actually use it every morning for oil pulling, which is different, but that's where you swish it around in your mouth. Have you ever done oil pulling Berry?
Barry Conrad
I actually have done that before. It's gross to do though. It feels like you're just like gargling around this oil.
Melanie Avalon
It's like a game changer for me. It doesn't.
I remember it was gross when I started, but I've been doing it for, you know, a decade every single morning. Really? It's a game changer for me for like oral health, like breath, like just an, an Ayurvedic medicine. They do it. They say it pulls toxins out. I love doing it. Basically you, you, you put some in your mouth, you swish it around for like 20 minutes and then you spit it out. If you integrate it into your daily habit. So like I do it while I'm taking a shower and things like that. It just becomes second nature.
Like it doesn't feel weird. It does. You have to get used to it and then make sure you don't spit it out. Flush it down the toilet. Don't, don't put it down your sinks or your shower because it will, it can clog.
Barry Conrad
with MCT oil.
Melanie Avalon
Coconut oil would clog. MCT oil shouldn't because it doesn't become a solid. I've done it with coconut oil. You're right. You know what? I've been like, I've been such in the habit of like my coconut oil days probably won't clog if anything, it might actually help. So disregard that.
The brand I love because I've tried quite a few. I like on Amazon, it's called Natural Force Organic Pure C8 MCT Oil. I will put a link to it in the show notes, but it's in a glass bottle. I really liked the quality of it and I've been using that for a long time.
So it's made from organic coconuts. Do you have thoughts on MCT oil? C8 oil?
Barry Conrad
I have tried it before. I don't personally use it right now.
But when I had tried, I did put in my coffee. I knew that at the time a lot of germ growers would say, well, I am fasting because I'm putting in the coffee and it actually helps to get me into the fasted state. So there was a thing going on. There was a bit of conversation about that at the time. I don't know if that's still as much of a thing, but what I did notice when I did have it was, you know, it gave me a nice smooth lift without feeling wired or spiking my hunger necessarily, which was helpful, but yeah, it wasn't a clean fast.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And I feel like to that point, like that people were saying that it gets them into the fastest state or whatever, it's not getting you into the fastest state. Like it's literally calories, but it could, if your body is not used to making ketones, like I was saying earlier, get your liver used to making ketones and then make it more likely that you'll make ketones from your own body fat. Because your metabolic processes in your cells have to, they adapt based on what you're doing and eating and your mitochondria. So that's something that could be happening.
And Dr. Stephen Gundry actually has a whole other theory on it, which is really interesting, but he thinks it's actually creating, like it's changing how the mitochondria work. And it's actually, no, I'm going to butcher this, but that it's basically make it, it actually makes the cells create more mitochondria and it makes the cells just like burn energy because they actually don't process it as their own fuel.
Barry Conrad
So do you still use it ever to cook with or not really?
Melanie Avalon
occasionally if I'm doing a low carb day, I will add it to that. I find it, speaking of umami, I find it really heightens the flavor of food.
So I find like if you add like the one I linked to from Amazon, and you like cook your chicken in it, like for me, it intensifies the flavor and it makes it taste really, really good.
Barry Conrad
Wow, more so because do you use traditional like, you know, extra version olive oil or anything like that? Or do you only cook in like a nonstick sort of pan or do you just grill meat? Like how do you normally, what do you normally cook meat in if you're a pan frying it or something like that?
Melanie Avalon
in the past, it really depends like where I'm at, but I have, and I do, I think olive oil has a ton of health benefits to it. So I do, I do like olive oil.
I don't like douse my food in olive oil, but I like it. I've used it in the past more. How about you?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I use, I use olive oil pretty much. Like I don't, I try to get the best quality olive oil I can find. I don't overthink it too much, but I don't use a ton. I just use enough to cook the meat and you know, not douse it or drench it.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think people, because people can really go off the deep end with dousing things in.
Barry Conrad
oils. Bathe the meat in, you know, a pool of, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Actually, my favorite olive oil is called Immortal Provisions, and I had them on the show. They used to have a regenerative ranch that was super cool, and I had them on the show for that, but they launched an olive oil company. It's called Immortal Provisions because the olive oil industry is really sketchy. So it tastes amazing.
It's really high polyphenol. It's cold pressed, low acidity, a single verified varietal. I love it. So you can get 20% off with the code MelanieAvalon. For that, go to MelanieAvalon.com slash Immortal, and they have a really cool vibe and everything.
Barry Conrad
Sounds awesome, I love that name too.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I do too. It kind of reminds me of, I don't know, it's like the like, I like like with branding of stuff, things that feel really like ethereal or, you know, incandescent, immortal, you know, things like that.
Any other thoughts or shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
let's do it. Let's have our proverbial breaking of our fast.
Melanie Avalon
All right, friends. So the purpose of this part of the show is because we, even though we love the fasting, we also love the feasting.
And that is such an important part of your intermittent fasting protocol. So each week we pick a restaurant to feature and talk about what we would order. So Barry is picking this week's restaurant. Barry, what did you find?
Barry Conrad
I have chosen an amazing restaurant this week. It's called La Pavilion, and it is in New York. And why it's special, it's got lush interior, meets skyscraper vibes, half the space is devoted to living plant walls, olive trees, natural light. It's basically described as a pavilion in the tower.
So I'm going to send you the link.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. The walls are plants.
Barry Conrad
Here we go, I'm sitting with you right now. 650 bottles of wine curated by a strong wine direction, supporting both by the glass and serious pores, which we love. The vibe is meant to be elevated, but not stuffy, like a green, serene, glassy situation where the city and nature meet, which I thought you'd like, Mel.
And at the La Pavillion, another thing that's different to other places I've chosen is the menu is actually sort of split into two sections called terre and mère, which you might already know it means land and sea. So it's their way of separating the dishes inspired by the earth and that inspired by the ocean. So it's really elegant nod to how the restaurant celebrates nature, what grows from the ground and what comes from the water. So let's check this out.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm looking at pictures online. Is all the plants real?
Barry Conrad
Actually, I imagine that it is, I imagine that it is real.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, this looks so cool. You know what this looks like, Barry? Tell me. It looks like my apartment.
Barry Conrad
You know what, that's also one of the reasons why I chose it because of that motif, you know, your, the photo that you sent me with all your plants growing up the wall and stuff. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I have a really quick story about that now, because when did I last send you the picture of my fairy garden situation?
Barry Conrad
This is a while ago. I was in Melbourne, I think still.
Melanie Avalon
Okay so I have since then planted, I planted four different varietals of plants and I actually don't remember what they are so I'm like waiting for them to bloom and see what flowers come out but they are taking over like it is literally like a forest now it is wild there's like all these different green things growing it's even taller than before I'll send you an updated picture.
Barry Conrad
Thank you very much.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's wild. It's literally when I googled this restaurant, one of the pictures that came up came up looks like, looks like my apartment.
Barry Conrad
And Mel, they have a regular, they have a dinner lunch sort of menu, but they also have a pre-theater menu. We won't use that.
I don't think we should go. We could, let's have a look at the pre-theater menu just for curiosity, just to see. I think this is awesome too, there's a pre-theater.
Melanie Avalon
That's the other thing though for me. I never want to actually eat before a show. I would fall asleep during the show. Is it under experiences?
Barry Conrad
First go to our menus.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have a garden table surrounded by olive trees.
Barry Conrad
This is very unusual sounding, especially for New York, so I'll have to check this out.
Melanie Avalon
It's really exciting and smart that you're picking New York restaurants because then you get to try them. Uh-huh. OK. Pre-theater menu.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like more, it's smaller and it's more of a short thing, I think, for people going to shows, but it's still pretty cool that they've got one. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's shorter than the normal menu, but it's still pretty cool that they have a little short pre theater menu situation for people wanting to.
Melanie Avalon
Get something before the show.
Barry Conrad
Yeah get something before after or in between in between acts.
Melanie Avalon
This actually reminds me of a question I'm dying to ask you. Have you seen the, like there's some, I don't know where all it was, but I know they exist.
I remember there's one in LA, like these restaurants where it's like unlimited food, but only between like a certain amount of time.
Barry Conrad
Like a buffet type thing?
Melanie Avalon
a buffet but I remember specifically there was a restaurant that I saw in LA where it was like if you come between like this hour and this hour I don't know if it was a buffet I think it was like you could just order whatever unlimited between that amount of time and I know there are some buffets where especially like in Vegas and stuff where it is like a time limit I used to be really excited by that idea like eat all the food but now like that would be so you could not pay me to go to something where I'm like on a time limit to like eat the food I would be so stressed
Barry Conrad
I wouldn't like it. I prefer just, it's more like leisurely the way it, because it's like a feast of like when we break our fast, we like to take a time, relax, unwind, eat, you know.
Melanie Avalon
that's one reason I love one meal a day in the evening is because there's technically no endpoint like it's just whenever I get done and I go to bed compared to when you eat during the day for me and I would have stuff after it's like oh you can only eat until this time
Barry Conrad
Totally agree with that
Melanie Avalon
but they have a lot of fish here.
Barry Conrad
So I'm going to the dinner menu, what do you, so to start, so listeners, if you go to the menu, they have the mare, which is the sea, things inspired from the ocean and the tare, which is, you know, all the meat and the stuff from the land, the vegetables. So it's pretty cool. Is anything catching your eye and the start section, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
I am loving this. Well, they do have oysters. Okay, so for the starter, oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
I love the way it's presented, I like those photos as well, it just looks really cool, the way it's presented.
Melanie Avalon
It looks really nice. And this is reminding me of another, last time we were talking about seafood that I have not had, I realized I also have not had squid or octopus. Really? Uh-uh. Are they good?
Barry Conrad
It's really good, Melanie, like really, really, really, really, really good. It's quite an octopus, like really, really delicious.
Melanie Avalon
What does octopus taste like? I feel bad because they're so indelible.
Barry Conrad
No, it tastes good because you can have you can have it cold in like a salad type situation or you could have it Like hot so it's pretty versatile. It's a bit tougher.
It's not as easy to It's not as tender and like melt in your mouth, but it's it's really good. It's really really good
Melanie Avalon
Does it taste like anything else? I feel like it's its own, you know, like I don't know what it's related to. I don't actually think. Does it taste like squid? Does squid and octopus taste similar?
Barry Conrad
I mean, the same sort of consistency, it's probably the closest consistency, I think.
Melanie Avalon
But the taste, is it like anything else seafood-wise?
Barry Conrad
I really don't think so, it has its own, it's really its own thing.
Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna have to try it. Okay, maybe here's where I try it. Well, maybe, so maybe, actually, I wonder how this is prepared. Let me Google this.
Oh, this is, okay. So when it's a la poncha, that means warmed up in oil and a griddle or iron skillet. So, okay, I am going, I feel like this is a restaurant where they're not gonna be so excited about me adjusting the presentation. But I would like to have, I'm gonna try the octopus, a la poncha. Oh, it comes with savoy, cabbage, black garlic, and carrizo. I can't speak this language, bass, something. If they can give it to me, like plain grilled with everything on the side, and I will taste it. And then also maybe the smoked trout, if they can give it to me, plain with everything on the side. It may be the pork situation dish, but I'm not really sure what that dish is.
Barry Conrad
I'm really happy that I'm stoked that you're choosing something so different like the octopus, by the way.
Melanie Avalon
I want to try it. This feels like the place to have it, especially since it's prepared, grilled, and not... It sounds like I could... This would be a good place to try it.
Barry Conrad
Okay, I'm going to go for the oysters. That's a no-brainer.
So I'm definitely going to do the oysters. And I'm also going to go for the smoked trout, shard froyd. It looks delicious. And then I'm also going to get from the terror section, just for something different, the glazed pig's trotter, which is the pied de porte.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's why I'm saying I don't know what it is exactly. Yeah.
Barry Conrad
I'm gonna, cause I've had trotters before, so I reckon. What is trotters?
It's kind of like, it's kind of like feet sort of thing. It's their feet? It's pig's feet? It's kind of like, well trotter, is that right? I think it is. Yes, it is. It's their foot or their feet, but it doesn't look like a foot. It's like, you know, it's a trotter. So it looks more like a hoof than a foot. It doesn't look gross like a foot, you know.
Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny about that is in the American South, like pig's feet is like a thing. Like, I mean, I haven't had it, but it's, it's like an approachable thing that people eat here, I think.
So it's funny to see it described as, you know, pig's trotter versus like pig's feet.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, pigs feet will just sound so pigs feet. Yeah, why not can't no
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can like buy it in a can. I'm pretty sure.
Wait, let me google pigs feet. I think it comes in. Yeah, so I just googled pigs feet and there's pickled pigs feet and that's what comes up under images. Pickled pigs feet, are you down?
Barry Conrad
No, I'm not going to do that, but I think what I am down for is, wow, if the main courses look at that photo, whatever that is there, it looks amazing, scrolling down. This place looks really good.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, look at him holding the two rotisserie chickens.
Barry Conrad
That's like a dream to me. I actually love rotisserie chickens.
Melanie Avalon
They are so good. Do you have a favorite place to get it from?
Whole Foods. So Whole Foods, let me sell you on this. Whole Foods makes an organic, like, I mean, you wouldn't want plain, but they make an organic plain or rotisserie chicken that's so good. And they have like seasoned versions, but yeah, you can get like an organic one that's really good.
Barry Conrad
I have to try it. What's catching you eye out of this selection? The mirror and the tear. I like how it's divided, so it's like split into...
Melanie Avalon
So it's taking me a little bit longer because it's kind of like in French, not really, but it's, it's like, it's not the titles are French.
Barry Conrad
I already know what I'm getting.
Melanie Avalon
What are you getting?
Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the Homard kumquat, which is butter poached main lobster, parsnip royal, kumquat coolies, spinach sauce, or pouvoir, I'm totally butchering that. I'm going to have that.
And then I'm also from the tare section, I'm going to have the, I'm going to have the roasted sesso chicken, which is the pullet trough, roasted sesso chicken, black truffle pith beer. I'm really butchering this. So sorry. And wilted Brussels sprouts, pomade puree, just, yeah, just looks great because that chicken, the photo of that rotisserie chickens making me want the chicken. So I'm going to have the chicken.
Melanie Avalon
that picture does look really amazing. Okay.
I think I am going to go the, I think I got a, I got a, a soul last time, but I might get one again. So I'm going to ask for like a hybrid version because they have two soul dishes. So I'm just going to ask if I can get a Dover soul, like plain with its plane and then maybe some like steam spinach on the side if they can do that. And then for the tear, I, I'm kind of feeling the, um, maybe the, the pork, the duo of Berkshire pork, roasted loin, confit belly, caramelized apple, fennel sauce, charcuterie, but I will get everything on the slide again.
Barry Conrad
Sounds delicious. And oh, man, I'm scrolling down to the dessert, watching him pour chocolate over something. Oh, man.
Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, do you want any of the sides? Oh, they have broccolini, so I actually might get broccolini as my side.
Barry Conrad
I'm going to get, yeah, that actually looks good, grilled broccolini as a side, and also some wild mushroom fricasse, I don't know what that is, but I love mushrooms, so I'm going to try those two sides.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. And now dessert. Oh, wow.
Barry Conrad
This looks all decadent, like it sounds all decadent, you know? I'm gonna get the chocolate-slash-cafe as flourless chocolate biscuit, coffee, cremo, Irish whiskey ice cream, that's happening!
I think that's what he's pouring on, is that, does it look like the flourless chocolate biscuit? It looks like that.
Melanie Avalon
Case point, chocolate onto.
Barry Conrad
some sort of biscuit, right? Yeah, must be that.
Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to see if it, it might, this menu is so hard to read, it might, yeah, I think so, probably.
Barry Conrad
I'll basically go to the rest of it and I'll go that photo, I want that.
Melanie Avalon
We want this photo, this picture, this picture, and go.
Barry Conrad
That one there. And also the milk chocolate cremo praline, that sounds great as well. Just basically all the chocolate stuff. Those two. What about you?
Melanie Avalon
So actually, if I were to get a dessert, which I'm instead I'm going to get a repeat of something from above that I already had probably, but I like the look of the ice cream that they have.
No, oh, it's cheese. Oh, they have a cheese plate.
Barry Conrad
We could have that for the table. You can watch me either because I know that you don't like it, right?
Melanie Avalon
It has a Sophia goat milk from Greenville, Indiana, a Tom de Fontier goat milk from the Loire Valley, France, which is my favorite valley for wine. Then there's a Jamban cow milk from Holland, a Camembert-Fermier cow milk from, oh my gosh, I'm butchering all this so bad, La Boisaré École, France, and then a Comte 18 month aged cow milk from Savoy, France.
Yeah, I love cheese. So maybe like we get that and you can let me know how they are. And I might, I might taste like a tiny bite of one maybe.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I feel like you're being more adventurous with this place. I mean, it looks so good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it just looks really nice.
Barry Conrad
The beverages aren't listed here, but they do say overseen by wine director and connoisseur Daniel Johns, the pavilion's wine program reflects Chef Daniel's commitment to seafood and vegetables. The 650 plus selections are predominantly French, with a generous contribution from the United States top producers and inspired entries from other vineyards of the world.
So I'm assured there's going to be a very 650 plus like selections. It's going to be something that we can both enjoy.
Melanie Avalon
We're going to be, wait, there is a beverage menu. You see it. Yeah. But really quickly to comment on this, yeah, we're going to be so good because it's a lot of French wine and also they have a core event system.
Have you used one of these before? No, I have one. Do you know what this is? No. Okay. Don't buy one because I'm making a note that you don't have one. Um, so it's, it's this like contraption thing where if you have a bottle of wine that you want to taste or like just have like a glass from it's more for like, if you want to like taste a wine and see if you want to open it or just, or it's like a really expensive wine and you don't want to have the whole bottle right now, but you want to have like some of it. It uses argon gas. You attach it to the top of your wine bottle. It puts this little, like, I don't know what it's called, like a little, like a really, it punctures the, the cork and then you pour out some wine and then it fills the space in the bottle with argon gas. So then you can just like keep tasting the wine without actually opening it. Oh, wow. That sounds awesome. It's really cool. So they'll use it at restaurants like this, because if they have really like, like this says rare and mature wines, but they don't want to have to open the whole bottle, they can let you have a glass from it without having to sacrifice the bottle. Oh, wow. Yeah. We love a core of N don't get one because.
Barry Conrad
That sounds awesome, I need to get one. It sounds like something that we need to get.
Melanie Avalon
don't get one don't get one until after christmas yeah there's a beverage menu oh wait oh no it's oh i lied you're right so if you click beverages it jumps to the beverage section which there's not a menu but it's
Barry Conrad
it says what I shared before and there's over 650 selections. So I'm sure there's going to be something we're going to enjoy.
Melanie Avalon
This like I feel so confident that we will be good here with the with the wine menu
Barry Conrad
Same and you're gonna look at the ambience and like the plants and everything and I feel like you'd like this place
Melanie Avalon
No, I love it. So, French, focus on seasonality, locally sourced ingredients, it looks like my fairy garden apartment. They have octopus for me to try. I am so down.
So, when are you gonna go? Are you gonna go soon?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll have to go soon and report back. I have to put this down for sure.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, please let me know. Please do and take pictures of all the plants. So okie dokie.
Well friends, we hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com. You can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 450. Definitely check it out. We will put links to everything and you can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I have Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And also I realize I should probably be saying this every time if you enjoy the show. It would mean the absolute world if you ever have a brief moment to write a brief review on Apple Podcasts. It helps so much more than most people realize. So thank you so so much in advance.
And yeah anything from you Barry before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for tuning in. We appreciate you all so much for doing that and we'll catch you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome! I will talk to you next week!
Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week, Mel. Bye. Bye.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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