Welcome to Episode 454 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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Exploring the Links between Diet and Inflammation: Dairy Foods as Case Studies
Self-Eating for Muscle Fitness: Autophagy in the Control of Energy Metabolism
Carnitine induces autophagy and restores high-fat diet-induced mitochondrial dysfunction
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 454 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 454 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. I'm so much better now because I'm talking to you. So that's really exciting.
And yeah, it's been an amazing day. And it's even better now that I'm doing the pod. So it's been a little second since we've done the pod. So exciting.
Melanie Avalon
Likewise, I'm trying to see when this airs so we get an idea of where listeners are and their trajectory of life.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, we need to know, where are we going to be?
Melanie Avalon
We should probably check that on the regular before we jump in. So this, oh my goodness, Barry, this airs December 29th.
Barry Conrad
What? That is wild. That's crazy. That means it's, we literally, like, New Year's Eve Eve-ish. Eve Eve Eve.
Melanie Avalon
Do you like New Year's Eve?
Barry Conrad
I love it because there's a sense of expectation, excitement, possibilities for what the next year could hold. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
I do. I have thoughts about New Year's Eve. Tell me. So everything you just said, yes. It's exciting. It's fun. I like how people dress up for it. It's like a classy holiday, you know?
Well, depending on where you go, but it can be. And then, although ironically enough, people might think that I, since I'm such a night owl, that I wouldn't mind it being so late. But I actually don't like being like out at midnight, you know? Like, that's late.
Barry Conrad
on this this is news to me because usually
Melanie Avalon
Wait, really? We haven't talked about this?
Barry Conrad
No, because usually because as listeners who have been listening for a while know, Melanie Avalon is the queen of being a night owl. So I'm surprised that there's a difference between being out late at night and then just being up late at home.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, there's a whole wind down process. Like when you're going home, I've still got another like three or four or five hours. So if I am going home after midnight, then that's really pushing things back. I like to be going home in the 11s.
But like with New Year's, I mean, I know that's not like a huge difference, but like in New Year's, you're like waiting for midnight for the actual event to happen rather than like be over.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Okay. What about like an average Saturday night or like Friday night when you go out and you do your the dress and the whole situation? Do you get back before midnight usually or after?
Melanie Avalon
Well, no, I do get back after midnight, but it doesn't make sense, Barry, but there's something about going out for normal events where the event is starting at like seven or eight compared to like waiting all the way until midnight for like the thing, even though then it's kind of over. So I don't know.
Something I do like though. So have we talked about New Year's at all? Like our feelings about it? No, no, no. Do you know my favorite thing is about New Year's Day? What? It's like the one day where everybody is hungover. So if you're not feeling well, you feel like you're like misery loves company. Like everybody's, like you don't have to be productive that day because nobody's feeling good. I mean, some people are.
Barry Conrad
No one's feeling good.
Melanie Avalon
I am, sometimes.
Barry Conrad
Well, do you have any plans? I mean, even though, okay, this is airing two days before New Year's, but do you have any plans in a couple of days if you were in the future right now?
What are you doing for this?
Melanie Avalon
I do, are you? Not yet. I mean, I think... Do you want to come? To my plans?
Barry Conrad
What are you doing?
Melanie Avalon
We're going to go to the aquarium again, the Sips Under the Sea thing, where they have the drinks with the fishes.
Barry Conrad
You love that. Actually, we're going to be upstate. We're going to be upstate at that house. Yes, in the snow. Oh, that's fun.
It's not the aquarium though. It's not under the sea with, you know, stuff, fit, swimming everywhere and having drinks and everything.
Melanie Avalon
I know. Do you think it bothers the fish that, like, does that mess up their circadian rhythms? Do fish, I don't know, do fish like sleep? Whoa, I have never thought about this.
Because when you're under the ocean, I mean, how far down do you go before, like, the light doesn't change?
Barry Conrad
I mean, I guess the good thing is they can kind of swim away, but maybe they see it as like who's coming this year. Maybe it's like a game to them.
I'm like, I wonder who's going to be back this year at this party, you know?
Melanie Avalon
I'm going to watch them and see how they feel about this.
Barry Conrad
But what happens at the party? Is there a format or is it just sort of drinks, drinks, drinks up until 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I haven't been to the Aquarium's New Year's, but I've been to their Halloween and their St. Patrick's and there are like a lot of other ones. So, and typically it's, there's dancing, everything's decorated. Oh, I think for New Year's, they, it's more classy. So I think there's like catering and I think you dress up really nicely.
All the exhibits are open for friends. This is the Georgia Aquarium, which is the largest aquarium in the Western hemisphere. I highly recommend it. It's amazing. It feels like Disney World, except like just ocean themed. Yeah, and then, yeah, I guess like there's the countdown. It'll be fun. The past two years, I actually went to the same party. It was like a rooftop, fancy party thing, downtown.
Barry Conrad
Are you going to dress up as anything aquarium themed, maybe, or not really? It's not. How do you even do that?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, now you got me thinking, cuz New Year's, man, now I have to wear blue sparkles, I guess.
Barry Conrad
Well, you kind of have to because I feel like you do every single big occasion, you always dress up, right?
Melanie Avalon
Now I have to get like a really sparkly blue dress.
Barry Conrad
Do it, do it, do it. Might as well go, you know, end it big.
Melanie Avalon
I'm sold. You must dress up even if you're just like at home. You won't be at home, right? You'll do something.
Barry Conrad
No, there'll be stuff happening. I'll dress up for sure. It's not going to just be, you know, sweats or anything. We'll do something festive. Be good.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like when I hear this upstate concept, I'm thinking that you're like in a cabin and there's like nothing around.
Barry Conrad
Well, it's kind of like a bougie cabin. It's not really a cabin. It's like a massive, massive house. It's really nice.
There's a town there. But who knows? Maybe we'll come back early. Maybe there's something happening in the town. We have to plan that.
Melanie Avalon
your first wait no no no wait wait wait yeah is this wait is this your first u.s new years
Barry Conrad
This is my first ever US news ever.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
Big deal. Big, big first.
Melanie Avalon
I can't believe you're not going to, I mean, I can because you're not going to be there, but I feel like the most famous New Year's Eve place to be on New Year's is New York City.
Barry Conrad
I know. Well, maybe we'll, I don't know, maybe we'll be back by the 29th, you know, after Christmas. Maybe after Boxing Day, we'll come back to the city. Maybe, probably.
Melanie Avalon
Would you go down there for like Times Square, like the whole thing?
Barry Conrad
Are you ever back in the city it's got to be a vibe is going to be something and if not it's going to be a party that's like crazy or some. It's all happening we're not just going to be chilling on new year's eve no way.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Speaking of parties, just so we don't get too far behind, can I very, very briefly tell you about my first world problems for my birthday? Also happy belay.
Barry Conrad
Gated birthday again, Mel. Amazing, tell me.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Okay, I'll make this very I'll make this a very truncated short version was supposed to go see a comedian Taylor Tomlinson. She canceled her show had to scramble and find something else to go to because we had a group of like 15 people decided to go to Cirque du Soleil. And here comes my first world problems.
So have you been to Cirque du Soleil?
Barry Conrad
I haven't, but I've always wanted to go, always.
Melanie Avalon
I have, but I've been to one that was at a touring arena and I've been to one at the Fox Theater. I have not been to like the tent version, like the OG, like, you know, like the ones in the tents, like that vibe.
So nobody told me that they're not climate controlled and that like the bathrooms are a porta potty situation. So Barry literally, and what's really ironic is that like the next day we got an insane like freeze thing. So like the next day would have been perfect because it was like 20 degrees, but that day it was warm. It was hot. It was humid. So I was in my big gown. So literally Barry for the first half of that show, and I don't like drinking when I'm hot and humid and uncomfortable. So for the first half of that show, this is so horrible. I was literally just complaining in my head about how uncomfortable I was.
Barry Conrad
This is really hot, really annoyingly hot.
Melanie Avalon
I was just not happy because it was my birthday. I was supposed to be like in climate control. That's all.
And then like the bathroom situation was porta-potties. I was having flashbacks, doing background acting for six months. Like, but I survived.
Barry Conrad
That's actually very funny visual because I'm picturing it now and just you sighing and kind of like, this is not ideal. Why is this happening?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, and then I'm judging myself because I'm like, Melanie, like this is an incredible show, you need to watch it, not complain. So it's like, it's just like a conversation in my head for an hour and a half like that.
Barry Conrad
Do you think any of the performers like clock to a unit frustration or did you make eye contact with him like how you do at the theater shows.
Melanie Avalon
That's a funny thing. I made a lot of eye contact. They were making a lot of eye contact. I wasn't even thinking about it.
Later my mom came up, she was like, that one guy just kept coming over and looking at you. I was like, I was not paying attention, but that's great. But it was really fun, regardless.
Barry Conrad
That's really funny. I want to see some more photos. You gotta see me some more so I can see.
Melanie Avalon
I will. And then we went another shout out.
We went to Lazy Buddy, my favorite Michelin-starred restaurant in Atlanta after. They kept it open for us because they were closed and I had drinks and it was amazing. So that's my story.
Barry Conrad
How do you feel being another year advanced? I should say advanced.
Melanie Avalon
We don't really talk about it, but...
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I didn't want to say older because you know, like it's how you feel so advanced.
Melanie Avalon
Another year younger. I feel great.
Actually, I, I really appreciate life is amazing. I love this show. I love podcasting. I love biohacking. I love creating products. I'm so grateful for friends and family. So I am happy. How about you?
Barry Conrad
Well, that's exciting, but also you're deflecting.
Melanie Avalon
Your turn.
Barry Conrad
No, that's really great. I'm so happy for you and hoping that this next year is all you wanted to be. Thank you.
Melanie Avalon
Same to you and to friends listening in real-time. Happy last days of 2025 and happy new year to everybody.
Barry Conrad
Happy last days of 2020. This is wild. Have the best time, everyone, and be safe.
Melanie Avalon
I know. This means we're, we are closer, we will be closer to 2030 than 2020. Probably a good thing. Well, I guess we'll find out.
Barry Conrad
Yo, we will find a TBC dot dot dot.
Melanie Avalon
I know. Should we jump into things? Anything else?
Barry Conrad
I think we should. Also, I was going to say, if we have time, I just did my annual physical last week, like with blood work and stuff, Mel. I was kind of nervous, like, you know, I don't know why I get nervous before doing bloods because I should be confident about it, but the results were awesome.
The doctor basically said that they are the results that someone at least 10 years or more younger than me would have, especially my lipopenna, like HDL, my cholesterol, my triglycerides. And, you know, basically, you know, I'm a volume eater, you and me both, as you know, and I love my big hedonic feast every day. I eat a lot in my window and I enjoy wine, too, and spirits sometimes as well. So a lot of people, I guess, get confused sometimes or frown on that because there's sometimes an assumption that eating this one big meal or drinking is going to automatically result in unhealthiness or mess up your numbers. But what this really shows is that the overall pattern, like the long fasting window, the time my body got to reset, the low insulin most of the day, it's had these awesome effects. So I'm super, super stoked, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. This is so exciting. Thank you for sharing.
And this is all assuming, of course, that you're not like my theory, which I actually got accused of this week as well. Is that your AI? I'm not AI. We could both be AI.
Barry Conrad
You know, who knows? Who actually does know? We're not. We're smarter than AO, we can't be it.
Melanie Avalon
No, that's amazing. And actually, the study that I have next week is about what you just talked about. Teaser.
Barry Conrad
Wow, look at that. Look at that. We didn't even plan the listeners. There you go.
Melanie Avalon
Do you think you're always going to be nervous before your blood test? It's not nervous.
Barry Conrad
I think it's a sense of like, do you know when a cop pulls you over when they're driving behind you, even though you know you're not a drunk, be driving illegally?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, yes, that's such a good metaphor or simile, it was a simile. That is such a good simile.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I mean, I guess that feeling and this is like, what is it going to be? Like a sense of like, please be good.
Melanie Avalon
It's kind of helpful if you ever get more into my biohacking world. Brands send me blood tests, like I did one yesterday. So it's like exposure effect and I'm doing them 24 seven. It's helpful that way.
Barry Conrad
No, I don't want to be. Oh, trust me. I want to get more into Mel Evelyn's biohacking universe.
Melanie Avalon
Well, we should get you sent some. The one I did yesterday was so, have you done the at-home blood test where you stick the thing to your shoulder?
Barry Conrad
No. Who does that one?
Melanie Avalon
So a lot of companies use it. It's a method of collecting blood. So rather than doing like a finger stick, which I don't like doing those at home, because when you're doing like a big blood test at home with a finger stick, you got to like, I don't know, I like almost faint. I don't like doing it.
It's hard to get that much blood out of your finger. So it's this thing that like sticks to your arm, you don't even feel it. And it like sucks the blood out of you like a vampire and fills up a little like a fills up a bottle.
Barry Conrad
So how long do you leave it on your shoulder like your arm?
Melanie Avalon
It's however long it takes to fill up, so it took mine a couple minutes to actually start. I think the way it works is that it briefly sort of punctures you, but then it sucks it.
That's how it gets all the blood. So it takes a little bit to create that suction, and then you just wait I think about five minutes.
Barry Conrad
It's a vampire. It's a biohiking vampire.
Melanie Avalon
So that was for rhythm health, but uh, but congrats. Yay. Healthy berry. That's awesome.
Barry Conrad
It's just the whole thing, seeing numbers, reflecting it is one thing to talk about fasting and metabolic health, but it's another thing entirely when labs confirm that our lifestyle is great for keeping your internal markers younger than actual age and in good nick, I should say.
Melanie Avalon
especially with and again this we'll talk about this more next week but the concerns and fears I think people have around like the way we eat and such.
Barry Conrad
Tell me about it.
Melanie Avalon
big meals. Awesome. All right. Well, do you have, speaking of studies, do you have a study for us today?
Barry Conrad
I do have a study today, Mel, and it's called Animal and Plant Protein. Usual intakes are not adversely associated with all cause, cardiovascular disease or cancer-related mortality risk, an NHANES-3 analysis. So it comes from Yanny Papanicolo, Stuart Phillips, and Victor Fulgoni, and it was published in Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, 2025. The researchers used NANES-3 data, which is this massive national health survey from the U.S., and they followed almost 16,000 adults for many years to see how their usual protein intake related to long-term health. So they looked at how much animal protein people sort of ate typically, things like meat, my favorite, eggs, dairy, poultry, fish, and how much plant protein they got from beans, nuts, and grains. Then they sort of linked that with mortality records to see if eating more animal protein or more plant protein changed the chances of dying from any cause, heart disease or cancer. They also looked at IGF-1 levels in a smaller group because that hormone sort of sometimes shows up in protein-related research. So the results are surprisingly neutral. Eating more animal protein did not increase the risk of dying from anything. Thank you.
Eating more plant protein did not increase the risk either. So heart disease deaths did not change. Cancer deaths did not rise with the higher protein, and there was even a very small hint of lower cancer mortality with animal protein.
Melanie Avalon
have you said of lowered or more?
Barry Conrad
lower cancer mortality with animal protein.
Melanie Avalon
with adding more animal, sorry, adding more, wait, plant protein.
Barry Conrad
animal protein.
Melanie Avalon
And I'm over, whoa, okay.
Barry Conrad
which we love, although it wasn't strong enough to overstate. So the IGF-1 didn't change the relationship either. The takeaway, Mel, is that based on this huge dataset, the protein type alone did not meaningfully raise mortality risk.
And here's where this becomes relevant to intaminar fasting, because a lot of people who fast, they worry what they should be eating in the eating window, especially when it comes to protein. Protein is such a topical, it's like a hot topic right now, because we talk so much about protecting muscle and maintaining strength, and it's all over social media and the news. And I think this study sort of helps simplify things a bit. It says that choosing animal protein or plant protein isn't what determines long-term mortality. But, and this is an important but, the study doesn't change our basic physiology. So as we all know, actually, if you don't know, the current RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight per day. And that is the minimum needed to avoid muscle deficiency. So that's not to build muscle, just avoid deficiency. So zooming out, I reckon, in a fasting lifestyle, where our eating window is shorter, maybe, getting enough protein becomes even more important, listeners. So realistically, meeting that protein target through plant sources alone could be more challenging than animal protein. So plant proteins are generally less protein dense, lower in certain essential amino acids. It means you have to be pretty intentional and deliberate by eating larger amounts or combining different plant foods to hit that minimum daily. And animal proteins make reaching that RDA way easier because they're just more concentrated and complete. So while this study is reassuring in terms of mortality risk, which we love, it doesn't mean, like someone can just sort of say, I'm getting some protein now from veggies and that's great because you still got to hit that RDA. And protein still needs to be met consistently, especially for us intermittent fasters who want to protect muscle health, metabolism, and physical performance. So what the study supports is freedom of choice and not lowering the protein bar. I mean, at the end of the day, if we're fasting, the most important thing is meeting those needs, choosing foods that work for you, and staying consistent with your eating rhythm. And it's a reassurance that you don't need to fear animal protein. And it also reminds us that protein quality and quantity still matters. What do you reckon, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I obviously love this study so much. I was thinking about it.
I feel like out of all of the different nutrition related topics, protein is just one of the most perplexing and slightly frustrating ones for me because it's just so interesting that protein, it's like the one macronutrient which literally provides the foundational building blocks for our body. So it's out of the macronutrients. It's like the source that builds us. And then on top of that, it's the source that's probably least likely to become fat. So we're less likely to gain weight from it. It's just so healthy, so helpful for supporting muscle. And then there's all these ideas out there about we need to lower our protein intake. And I honestly feel like the majority of studies that are out there, if they show something negative about high protein diets, it's probably correlational. And it's probably a proxy for a high calorie diet because unless you're consciously doing an approach where you're doing high protein and monitoring your calories or doing intermittent fasting or something, you're probably having a lot of protein just like in the normal diet. So high protein could be for a lot of cases, just like a really high calorie diet. So how do we know that the problems are coming from the protein versus the caloric load? And what I love about this study in particular that you found is I do, so personally, my one lingering concern about protein is the high IGF-1 effect. So the high growth hormone that's created from it, because we know in general, or we see that IGF-1 levels tend to correlate to longevity in the way that if you have higher IGF-1 levels, or sorry, like lower IGF-1 levels typically relate or correlate to increased longevity. And the final sentence of the opening abstract of this paper says mortality risk was not associated with circulating IGF-1 in any age group. So this literally answers the one lingering fear I have about protein, not definitively, of course, but that it really speaks to that.
And so fascinating that animal protein, that they found it was mildly protective for cancer mortality. Because again, that's what is often said is that high protein diets can encourage cancer, especially like animal products in general. This is what is said, that animal products in general and especially animal protein. So wild that they found it was mildly protective.
Barry Conrad
I love it because it's true, Mel, you hear it all the time. You shouldn't eat so much weird meat. Barry, you shouldn't have so much steak. It's bad for you, didn't you hear?
But it's so not. It feels good to know that the science supports that because all we can do is the best with what we know, Mel, and science is constantly evolving. So to see studies like these supporting... It needs to be a fasting protein, what we're eating. It's really good for peace of mind so that we're on the right track.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. And actually I want to ask you, um, so do people say that to you a lot? Like, do people, do people comment on how much protein you eat or like steak?
Barry Conrad
They really do, because a lot of people, once they find out that I do intermittent fasting, A, it's like, ah, and then it turns to when I say 20 hours, it's like, ah, and then when they see what I eat, they're like, are you sure that's not unhealthy? Didn't you hear that eating that much red meat's really bad for you? It can cause cancer, cause a disease. You shouldn't do that. You should get that checked out. So a lot of people knowingly just say that, whether it's just something they heard or, but it's something that I hear and get a lot, actually.
What about you?
Melanie Avalon
Well, that's what's interesting and that I'm thinking about I wonder if and we've had conversations about this before on the show about just society and like male versus female and things like that. I wonder, I do not people do not really tell that to me very much.
So like if I were to be at a restaurant, eating a lot of steak and and then I order my like second, my second protein animal meal and then my savory dessert of salmon. I think people find it humorous and maybe surprising because I'm like a thin female and they like people often think instead I'm like vegetarian or something. I wonder if people are more comfortable like since you're a man like giving you grief for that compared to me.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I think you know what a lot of dudes, a lot of guys don't say that to me as much like they're like, Oh, are you getting eating so much protein? That's so awesome. Like they're more impressed that I.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they don't say that.
Barry Conrad
It's more older men and females that I hear they're from rather than like males my age or guys who train.
Melanie Avalon
WOAH!
Barry Conrad
Yeah cuz a lot of them know like that they know how important protein is not are you getting your games you getting your protein that's awesome that's great. You know so it's very specific.
Melanie Avalon
Sorry, it's the females that say that it might be a problem.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like, are you sure that's healthy? You should check that out. Like, you know, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
That is so interesting. I have not thought about that.
It's interesting to hear things, especially having done this show prior to you joining with like a female co-host for so long. It's interesting to imagine the experience of doing fasting from a different perspective like that.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it also could be a chasm of, like, you know, it's my reality, meaning, like, people that I'm surrounded with usually aren't a health effectiveness or training, so they are more versed in, you know, what we need to get in protein-wise, where a lot of general people, people might meet just in the wild, and I'm at a party, or they're like, ah, that's kind of extreme, you should, I heard red meat's really bad to you, like, and I usually hear that from older males, and older meaning, like, late 50s, and then just females in general. Not all females? Not hating on all females, just, like, from a female population usually say something? Not all, but some.
Melanie Avalon
So interesting. Awesome. Well, good find with the study. Shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. All right. Would you like to read the first one which relates to animal protein?
Barry Conrad
Do we go? So Damon, shout out to Damon, Damon on Facebook asks, what do you think of getting protein from cheese?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, Damon. So I just said a second ago that protein is one of the most, you know, perplexing and frustrating things for me. Cheese is also up there for topics that I am confused by. And that's because it is overwhelming how many different things I have read about cheese that are seemingly completely contradictory. In general, something I think that's important to just make note of to start is cheese can be lean, like really high protein and relatively lean, or it can be like very fatty, like basically all fat. So there can be really different, you know, composition between where the calories are coming from and how much of that actually is protein. So but if you're getting something like softer cheeses, like brie, that's going to have, you know, less protein relatively speaking. And then there are things like cottage cheese where, you know, you could get that and it's basically like you could get fat free cottage cheese and it's like all protein or you can get fattier cottage cheese. Basically, there's just a lot of different ways that it can manifest when you eat it as far as the protein intake. So that's the protein front.
And then there are just so many different studies on how it affects muscle, how it affects weight, how it affects inflammation. So I'm trying to see if I should go through some different studies. Okay, so when it comes to weight, cheese does seem to promote satiety in a lot of people. So it can help with appetite regulation and weight maintenance, but it also can be really easy to overeat. So I know for me, cheese, just like I just want to eat it and eat it and never stop eating it. So for me, I just can't because it's a gateway food into not being able to properly regulate my appetite. But for some people, adding it in is the opposite, like it really promotes satiety. It helps them actually eat less overall. It's not connected to weight gain. Dairy and cheese are high in calcium, which can help actually enhance fat oxidation. So there's that. And then there's some observational studies that actually show inverse relationships between cheese and weight gain. So that actually relates to the French paradox phenomenon. So the French tend to eat a lot of cheese, they tend to be leaner. The French paradox also encompasses wine, which I like, they tend to drink a lot of wine and they tend to be leaner. So some studies in particular, and again, the reason I'm so torn by this is I read so many different things, but there are quite a few different studies. So when it comes to inflammation, there was a 2024 study and they found that aged cheddar cheese had bioactive peptides produced during the ripening process that effectively suppress inflammation, but not young cheese. Young cheese, oh my goodness, it's so funny. And there was a systemic review of 27 randomized controlled trials. And they found that in 19 trials evaluating dairy products, 10 had no effect on inflammation, eight saw a reduction in inflammation, and at least one biomarker of inflammation.
Melanie Avalon
And then there was another study that compared a high fat meal with cheddar cheese compared to a vegan alternative. And they found that the cheese meal had significantly lower CRP levels and CRP is a marker of inflammation. So they did find in there that the cheese, either the cheese reduced the inflammation or the alternative increased it, but they did find that.
And then going back to studies on weight. So there was a analysis of 120,877 us adults for up to two years, sorry, 24 years of thinking months, 24 years. And they found that cheese was not linked to weight gain, even when intake was increased while yogurt was actually associated with weight loss. So they, they found that the evidence suggested that whole fat dairy foods do not cause weight gain, but overall dairy consumption actually, but officially can increase lean body mass and reduce body fat.
Barry Conrad
It's kind of fascinating.
Melanie Avalon
There is a lot of good data and studies on cheese as being a good option for weight maintenance, for supporting muscle, for satiety, for helping with inflammation. But I think you really, really need to know your body because some people, I mentioned myself having kind of like an addictive personality with cheese. I also get, unless it's cottage cheese, honestly like cottage cheese, cheese makes me kind of feel like mucusy. Like I definitely feel it also can make me break out a little bit. So I think you need to be aware of how it actually feels in your body.
How does it make you feel? And really do what works for you. And then on top of that, I'll just go on a quick little tangent. I do think fermented dairy products can be a good way to go. So like when I eat, I love like cultured cottage cheese that has the live active probiotics in it. I love things like that. And you definitely, I mean, do what you want, but I would stay away from super processed forms of cheese, you know, like American cheese slices, which by the way, Barry, welcome to the US and the American. I have a question. Do they have the like the Kraft American cheese slices here? Do they have those in Australia?
Barry Conrad
Not the way you have here. I literally had to buy a low-fat version of that for a recipe the other day. It's wild how many varieties there are.
Melanie Avalon
It's a thing. And it is so good. Oh my gosh. Have you had like the non-lo fat, just like the straight up craft American singles?
Barry Conrad
I did because I went to make smash burgers, homemade smash burgers, and I tried making with the low-fat, and it was all right, but it doesn't hit the same. So I had to just go all in and get the American cheddar straight up.
Melanie Avalon
was it so good? So processed. Yeah, yeah. So those are my thoughts on cheese.
And I will say I don't have the study right here, but I remember reading a lot about this. And Barry, I completely forgot about this. And clearly, I forgot. Maybe this is why I'm so confused. There's an entire book about this, an important caveat, because everything I just said was mostly, I think, supportive of cheese. Dr. Neal Bernard, who is a very renowned and intense vegan doctor, I had him on the show once, but he wrote a book called The Cheese Trap, how breaking a surprising addiction will help you lose weight, gain energy, and get healthy. And again, that's obviously coming from a very, very biased perspective. But this is why I'm so confused because he does reference a lot of studies and you read that book and you're like, God, cheese is the worst thing ever. So it's just really confusing. Although I do remember, it was either in that book or it was in one of Tim Spector's book, I remember reading studies saying that cheese or dairy was definitively not linked to acne. And I just think that's not true, because if I eat cheese, I break out. Okay, that's all I have to say.
Barry Conrad
Really? Mm-hmm.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And, and, and, and here's the thing, Barry, because I remember when I read this, it was every now and then I read a, like a moment, like I read a study and I have a moment. And it was that moment for me because the study was very like definitive that cheese and dairy do not cause acne.
And I, like I eat such a consistent diet with very little change that if I add in something that's very different, I will like notice if something is off, I'm like a very good controlled experiment basically. And yeah, cheese will make me break out.
Barry Conrad
That's interesting i've never heard of anyone say that before so that is but you you are the the perfect candidate for the biggest.
Melanie Avalon
You've never heard people say that they break out? I hear it all the time.
Barry Conrad
From cheese no more like chocolate and stuff but then chocolate has dairy in it so
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't know if it's like the hormonal profile or oh, now I'm getting flashbacks to the cheese trap book. He talks a lot about like the issues of the hormones in cheese because and I agree with that because of the way like, especially if it's like not grass fed, I should emphasize that I would go make sure you get like grass fed organic, if possible cheese made from like a two milk rather than a one milk and you want these cultured like old fermented forms rather than like conventional cheese at the store that's probably can be full of like hormones from the from the cow's milk. It can be full of, you know, endocrine disruptors and problematic compounds and things like that. So I think the sourcing is really important.
And how long can I talk about cheese? I'm going to stop talking about cheese now. What are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
It's so good though. And it is one of those things where it's like we call, Melanie and I have these calls off the podcast when we call them mythical calls. I feel like cheese is a bit mythical because it's not, it never seems to be like a clear cut thing to me ever. You know, it's like what I do know is what I eat and what I do have of cheese is a lot of low fat cottage cheese, Damien, like I'll slap that on a rice cake with some cottage cheese with a slice of tomato. It's so good.
And low fat cottage cheese is super high in protein. It's 24, about 24, 28 grams of protein per cup, which is a lot. Super low fat, really good. Also, I have a lot of, since being here, a lot of Parmesan actually melt because I've been making, I bought a pasta maker, so I've been making a lot more pasta and using a lot of Parmesan cheese. So that's high in protein too, a little bit fattier. Damien, I would say it is how Mel said it's about how you handle it and knowing your body. I don't go overboard personally, but I do eat a fair bit of cottage cheese. As I said, it's easy to digest for me. It's honestly one of those things that somehow works with everything. When you break your fast, a lunch, even a post-workout snack, and also not going to lie, like some low fat shredded cheddar. I use that when I was doing Destiny, I made a lot of home made pieces, like I buy the base, but then put a lot of cheddar on there, low fat, that's pretty good, and melt them into a bowl of chili even, even on a burger, made from ground beef, if it gives you that extra flavor kick as well. But again, go for that, like Mel said as well, make sure you know what the sauce is. Go for the real stuffed them and not the ultra processed slices that look like they could survive a nuclear winter and use it to elevate the meal, not dominate the meal. Yeah, cheese definitely has a spot on my plate. Just be informed where you're getting it from, and that your body's cool with dairy. It's one of life's joys. I love a cheese board, and let's be honest, a homemade burger without cheese, and that's just like a meat patty with an identity crisis. We need to like the cheese. But yeah, just make sure you know where you're getting it from. But yeah, I love it personally.
Melanie Avalon
Love, love, love. That made me think of a few last quick thoughts.
Oh my goodness. I think we've talked about this on the show before. I think a reason in theory that you would think cheese would cause a lot of weight gain is because it's literally a hormonal food, not like because it has hormones from, it's from milk, which is a food literally made to grow a baby and also bond the baby to the mother. So it's really high in case of morphins, which are basically like morphine-like substances in the dairy. And that's why it can be really addictive for some people. And I think it actually depends on people's personal case of morphine receptors. So that might be why some people are more addicted to cheese and dairy than others. So like for me, it just lights me up, like lights me up. It feels like a drug. And then just speaking of the mythical call, oh wait, no, before that, before that, also look into cheese is like goat cheese and sheep cheese. Do you like other types of cheese? Cheese is.
Barry Conrad
I love Goji so much, especially when doing a charcuterie board. Like that's, that's the style of the board. Like a good Goji is really, really good.
Melanie Avalon
What's your favorite cheese?
Barry Conrad
I like a good Swiss cheese. I do like a good goat cheese. I don't love a lot of... I do like blue cheese, contrary to what a lot of people don't like. I love blue cheese.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes, I feel like blue cheese is polarizing. Some people hate it.
Barry Conrad
I love it so much I don't get the hate around why do people hate it is it just because they think it stinks or they don't just don't like the taste.
Melanie Avalon
I think so, yeah. Some people do not like blue cheese. I love blue cheese.
Barry Conrad
It's so more-ish, like you just want to keep eating it, you know?
Melanie Avalon
More-ish you want to keep eating more? Yeah. Have you had manchego? That's my favorite
Barry Conrad
Yes, i forgot about man show going on now now i'm getting inspired for this weekend festivities like making a charcuterie with full of good cheeses.
Melanie Avalon
Mmm, so good. And also flashbacks. Do you remember when I was making my own cottage cheese?
Barry Conrad
I think I do remember this, and okay, did making it inspire you to keep making it, or is like, this is too complicated, or you didn't like the taste of it, or how it made you feel?
Melanie Avalon
The thing that I'm annoyed about is I timed it incorrectly because cottage cheese had its moment. I mean, it's still pretty popular, but it got really, really popular and I swear Barry, it got popular six months after I was posting all my cottage cheese stuff.
Not because of me, but if I had waited six months, I would have been right at the timing to have content that resonated with people. But yeah, I started making it because I wanted, I couldn't find fat-free cottage cheese that didn't have additives. So I was like, I'll just make my own. It's like a science experiment, it's wild. You should do it.
Barry Conrad
Did it taste good? How did it taste?
Melanie Avalon
So if you if you literally they say you can't I mean they say some of the things say you can't make Fat-free cut like that. You can't make cottage cheese out of fat-free milk.
I did they're lying but um It kind of tastes like It's like more like ricotta It's basically just like pure protein But it's why I swear it's like you're in harry potter making it. It's so fun I really recommend you have to like time in and like use the the thermometer and then you pour in the vinegar and then it like Does this reaction it's wild
Barry Conrad
Is it a long process?
Melanie Avalon
I got really good at it and I did it like every day for a couple months and then it was pretty easy to do, but it does require, I don't even remember how long it took. It's not that long, but you do have to let something sit at some point.
I'm not sure. I would make it in the day and then have it ready at night. And then I went down the rabbit hole. I was like, I'm going to make mozzarella cheese. And then I was like, I'm not going to because that process is wild.
Barry Conrad
mozzarella. That actually makes me think of a friend of mine when I was in Melbourne, she was like, just, just let it, she was saying like a director used to say, just mozzarella, mozzarella that moment, like, just stretch it out a bit, which is hilarious.
Melanie Avalon
And I do like mozzarella, I used to love like cheese sticks, like fried cheese sticks, mozzarella.
Barry Conrad
Oh, Melanie, this is totally off topic, but I'll park that and talk about it a little bit. It relates to sticks. Oh my gosh. I have to talk about this.
Melanie Avalon
It relates to what? Oh, to steak. To sticks. Oh, sticks. To sticks, like wooden sticks.
Barry Conrad
Edible sticks. I'll have to talk about it maybe on the next show. It's really funny.
Melanie Avalon
Edible wooden sticks? I am so intrigued. Listeners have to keep listening.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, you have to keep listening.
Melanie Avalon
and the one thing I was going to say about the mythical call, when Barry and I have these mythical calls, we literally talk about this stuff. Like, actually.
Like, we'll talk about fasting for like an hour. Like, we didn't just talk about it for, you know, however long.
Barry Conrad
It's not, Melanie was like, we were talking the last time. And she was like, this is so, we're still talking about it. This is like the after show to the.
Melanie Avalon
People need to know we're authentic.
Barry Conrad
It's not just, we're not just coming on here, just like putting on this thing. We actually love, we geek out on it.
Melanie Avalon
We don't just talk about that though, we talk about other stuff too, but I'm just saying.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, come on, guys. There's other stuff too. Okay. Damon, we hope that was helpful. Please let us know what your favorite cheese is going to be, what you end up eating, and what you like.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, please, please report back and would love to hear from listeners in general about the cheese question. Do we want to answer one more quick question? Maybe the, maybe Marissa's carnitine question. Let's do it.
Okay. I'll read. So we have a question from Marissa and this is from Facebook. Everybody can join IF Biohackers intervention fasting plus real foods plus life on Facebook. We have a lot of engagement there and you can ask questions and Marissa said, after listening to you answer the question about el carnitine, I purchased Thorne brand to take before my workouts. If I always work out fasted, am I stopping autophagy when I take it?
Barry Conrad
Hmm. Well, Maris, thank you so much for your question. I hope you're doing great today. Really glad that you asked us because it is something that people do quietly wonder about and, you know, whether they should start using supplements in general around fasted workouts. And so, first of all, good on you for actually paying attention and doing some research, not just, you know, guessing and choosing a clean brand like Thorne and checking in how it fits into your fasting rhythm. So let's talk about this and whether it shuts down autophagy when you take it. The short answer is no. I mean, taking pure alkalatin before you train won't technically stop autophagy in any meaningful way. And I know that's the real heart of what you're asking because you want the performance boost without interrupting that good old cellular clean that we get, you know, when we fast. So alkalatin isn't, it's not a calorie source. Maris, so your body actually produces it naturally from amino acids like lysine and methionine. And its whole job is sort of like a shuttle, like it helps shuttle fatty acids into your mitochondria so that your body can burn them more efficiently for energy. So when you take it as a supplement, you're not giving your body food. You're giving it like a tool, almost like handing someone a key rather than a meal meal. So autophagy responds to things that trigger digestion instead. So and that raise insulin or signal like the body to shift into that feeding state. So pure alkalatin doesn't do that. Maris, it has no calories, no carbs. It doesn't create that insulin spike. So your fast stays nice and clean.
Your body stays in that low sort of nutrient sensing state where autophagy can keep doing its thing. And you get to keep training hard and reaping those benefits. What you do have to be careful, I would say, be careful of is the formulation. So meaning some flavored versions of anything really have blends. So these blends like sneak in sweeteners or fillers and things like that. So you really want to check, you know, what the formulation is. So those can interrupt the fast for sure if they bump your insulin up. So but the plain thorn alkalatin is exactly what you want for fasting. It's clean, nothing extra, simple. You can just take it with water before you train and your fast stays right intact. Now, Maris, you also said that you always work hard faster. Me too. Love it so much. I'm the same. I love training in that faster state because you get you feel that clarity and that sort of lightness and focus and drive, all that really good stuff that hits for me. And supplements like electrolytes creatine, alkalatin actually support that fasted training, Maris, without getting in the way. So it helps you. It actually helps you maintain muscle boost performance and keep that energy steady during a long fast, which is kind of what you want.
Barry Conrad
You know, and just to add as well, I'd say we said this before in the podcast, autophagy is not it's not like a light switch or button. It's not like on off sort of thing. It doesn't suddenly turn off if you breathe wrong or, you know, sit wrong or whatever, whatever it ramps up and down across your fast. So even if something nudged it slightly, which alkalatin doesn't, as far as we know, your overall process would still be moving in the right direction. You're still doing the work, still giving your body that space to repair.
So I'd say you're not stopping autophagy. You're not breaking your fast. Maris, you're supporting your training in a way that is really working for you. And so keep doing what you're doing. And it's the research that you're doing into this as well. It's all it's all the secret of making fasting a long term sustainable part of life. So thanks so much for the question, Maris. Mel, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
So you perfectly nailed that. The only thing I will add is, interestingly, there are actually some studies showing that that L-carnitine might actually increase or induce autophagy.
Wow. Yeah. So there's one called, let's see, carnitine induces autophagy and restores high-fat diet induced mitochondrial dysfunction. So in that one, that was six weeks of mice on a high-fat diet and they had glucose intolerance from the high-fat diet. And then when they were given carnitine supplementation, it actually reversed and helped their insulin signaling and actually induced markers of autophagy. So that's cool. And then there was another study called L-carnitine and acetyl L-carnitine induced metabolism alteration and mitophagy related cell death in colorectal cancer cells. And in that study, they actually found that in cancer cells, adding L-carnitine actually, again, supported the, they call it the autophagy flux and helped the mitochondria and actually stimulated mitophagy, which is autophagy specifically happening in the mitochondria. And the mitochondria are the powerhouses of our cells. So getting rid of dysfunctional mitochondria is really, really good for our bodies and recycling them. And that is mitophagy process. And it looks like L-carnitine might actually support that. So that's cool.
Barry Conrad
I've been waiting for this a while, let's do it. Me?
Melanie Avalon
So Barry, I actually have, okay, I have two restaurants and one, I just want to tell you about it because the menu is not online, but it's in New York and I found it and I just want to like tell you about it and then we can do the actual restaurant. Okay, so you might have heard of it.
Have you heard of Community Kitchen?
Barry Conrad
Yes, I have heard of this.
Melanie Avalon
It's in New York, and they have a seven-course upscale menu that is worth, I guess, $125, but the purpose of the restaurant is to make dining affordable to people. So you pay what you want, basically. So depending on what you can afford, you can pay just $15, you can pay $45. If you pay that, that's what it's actually costing the restaurant. And then if you can afford to pay more, you could pay what they would normally charge for it, which is like $125.
And they're also all into quality and sustainability and just all the things. So it's so cool. I was thinking you could go there some time and tell us what it's like. But it's called Community Kitchen.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, because I just I went to the website now and straight away a pop up came up said you invited to Community Kitchen Lower East Side Girls Club to showcase food justice and action and support of the Lower East Side Girls. Yeah, I love that it's purpose driven, which I love that.
So I reckon I'm going to bookmark this right now for sure. That sounds great. I love that idea of, you know, paying what you can afford. I think that's so cool and so necessary for the city.
Melanie Avalon
So the founder, Mark Bittman, he actually teamed up with a James Beard award-winning chef, Mavis J. Sanders in the kitchen, and Jose Andres is actually on the board of the restaurant. And then they pay the employees over $32 an hour. That's amazing.
That's awesome. So, and they say, oh, this is, they don't police the idea. Oh, so they ask you to pay based on your income, but they don't actually police that, and it's really just whatever you want to pay.
Barry Conrad
I love this idea so much. I'm genuinely going to look into this and get along.
Melanie Avalon
Yay, yay, okay. I know I was going to do it for our restaurant, but then I realized there's not, they don't have a menu online. And then for my actual restaurant that I picked, so one more haunted restaurant. I know I'll do one more haunted restaurant and then we'll let the haunted ones go.
But I like this one for multiple reasons because not only is it haunted, but it's pirate themed and it's in Georgia where I'm from. So it's just like too many good things to pass up. So it's in Savannah.
Barry Conrad
And what inspired you to get to choose this one? Was it just sort of like in the, when you were hunting for the other ones, or are you just this really caught your eye? Tell me why it caught your eye.
Melanie Avalon
because I have so many haunted restaurants on my list. I was like, let me try to get one that hits a lot of different things I like, which is I love a good theme, I love pirates, I love Savannah, Georgia.
Have you been to Savannah?
Barry Conrad
I actually haven't. I have been to Atlanta. Tell me, tell me something. Oh, Gainesville? I've been to... Is Gainesville?
Melanie Avalon
in? No, it's not. I should know where that is. That's in Georgia, right? Yeah, I think
Barry Conrad
So because I've been there and Atlanta, but never Savannah
Melanie Avalon
Savannah is such an old school America haunted cool vibe. So this one is called The Pirate's House. It's a pirate themed restaurant in Savannah and it sits in what is said to be the oldest building in Georgia and the most haunted building in Savannah. And if you're saying the most haunted in Savannah, that's saying a lot because Savannah is known for being a haunted city, like in general.
So there have been reports of apparitions, footsteps of old sailors, noises and moans from the now closed off tunnel near the basement of the building. So I sent it to you. Oh, and, and oh wait, Barry, they have a gift shop. Do you like to see the gift shop?
Barry Conrad
You love, okay, I'll be having a look. You love gift shops. I'm clicking on the gift.
Melanie Avalon
This is a legit gift shop too, do you see the pictures?
Barry Conrad
That's cool. I see mermaids. I see it's massive.
Melanie Avalon
T-shirts organized in a rainbow?
Barry Conrad
There's a whole lot going on in this gift shop, guys. It's like, there's t-shirts, there's merch, there's, looks like magnets, beanies, power it up.
Melanie Avalon
That's all pirate themed.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's a situation. There's like sunglasses, the whole thing is massive.
Melanie Avalon
Do not tempt me with a gift shop. Oh, Barry, the gift shop at the Georgia Aquarium. One of the best. Really? Yeah.
Barry Conrad
really solid why do you okay tell me why because a lot of people some people you okay people either love gift shops or they're like indifferent why why does melanie eveline love gift shops so much is it a disney thing is it uh just a from childhood thing what tell me
Melanie Avalon
It is and by the way, I have the gift shop like carousel of pictures circulating and one of them just popped up. Do you see there's like an animatronic pirate in like the corner? Oh my gosh.
Okay, to answer your question, it's because and it's hard for me because I'm trying to get rid of stuff and you know, I don't want to support overwhelming materialism and consumerism and all this stuff. And at the same time, normally when you're in a gift shop, okay, if you're like having your normal life, right, there's not you're not like going in gift shops, gift shops happen after an experience of some sort in life. Typically, I mean, maybe always. So the point is, it's a chance for you to like, see the experience that you have manifest and physical items. And then you can pick one that really brings happiness to you and speaks to your soul and you can bring that home and then you can remember that time.
Barry Conrad
I would agree with that like for example i went to the guggenheim museum have you heard of this museum in new york and it's pretty amazing stunning but there was a gift shop in there as well and that when you say give some of me think of that cuz there was recent i didn't love the gift shop i don't think you'd like it was okay wasn't as big as this haunted. It's not as big as the pirates house gift shop that's it.
Melanie Avalon
but you understand like it capturing a memento of. It does.
Yes. You've got to find the thing in there that really speaks to you and what's the one thing? Gift shops. Okay. So, menu. Shall we look at the menu?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it, I'm clicking on, should we click on the dinner one, the dinner one or the lunch dinner? Gotta do dinner.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, and for listeners, the purpose of this part of the show is like we were talking about in the beginning, we love celebrating the food that we eat in our eating meal because fasting is not just about fasting. It's about the eating part as well, which is actually how you, I mean, really get the benefits is, you know, all of the nutrients that you've taken.
So appetizers.
Barry Conrad
Melanie there's a lot here a lot of options okay here we go uh what are you getting
Melanie Avalon
Mine is so easy.
Barry Conrad
Peeve Carpaccio.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Beef carpaccio. Do you want the stuff?
So it comes with shishito peppers. Oh my goodness, here we go with all the names. A chermola, aioli, grated parmesan, capers, black chili oil, and black sea salt served with bread. Shall I get all of that on the side so then you can have some?
Barry Conrad
I would love that, and that all sounds really good to me. I'm also going to get a serving of that, and I do love the look of the corn fritters with blackened shrimp mel. That comes with roasted corn and peppers mixed with the cornmeal batter and griddle seed served with blackened shrimp and a side of green tomato. Ciao ciao!
What is that? Finished with a drizzle of Chipotle aioli.
Yum, that sounds delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Now we are. Do you want a salad? Do you want a gem from their salad galley?
Barry Conrad
Let's see, I like the titles by the way, James from our salad galley, you know, I think for the table, maybe a superfood salad wouldn't be so bad. I like the sound of that baby, superfood greens with radishes and mandarins, fresh grapes, fried wontons with the fig vinaigrette.
Let's do that.
Melanie Avalon
I love that you know I'm not eating any of the salad and you're like for the table.
Barry Conrad
Okay yeah this is gonna be good for me actually eat not because people think like all think i'm sharing all the food with my my guest that's like really for me.
Melanie Avalon
Nope. Okay.
So now for the entrees, which is Captain Flint's favorites. Oh wait, and entrees. Okay. So there's multiple, I gotta, I gotta make it smaller. So there's an entree section and there's Captain Flint's favorites. So we have a lot of options here.
Barry Conrad
I can see something that I already know that you would like. Oh, well, there's actually quite a few great options here. What are you going to pick, Mel? What do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, there are so many things. It's a lot of fish, a lot of steak, and a lot of seafood.
Barry Conrad
We're going to have to ask for quite a big table or we're going to say can we please have the big table because a few things I want to get actually for this.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I will okay. What's one of the ones that you see? This is really hard for me.
Oh, I see one. I want what I actually really want the seared Cheshire prime pork tenderloin. I'm feeling some pork right now.
Barry Conrad
Fork on you, fork.
Melanie Avalon
pork on my fork comes with herb marinated Cheshire prime pork tenderloin finished with a green tomato what is this green tomato chow chow stuff um sliced over mashed sweet potatoes and sauteed broccolini oh they have broccolini so i might actually get that completely plain and as rare as they'll give it to me it's i know it's pork with like some steamed broccolini on the side
Barry Conrad
I do love a good steamed broccolini. I think the chow chow to me, it kind of sounds like a salsa or something, like a green tomato chow chow-ish. I reckon I'm gonna get three things. So here we go.
Pirates House Award-winning honey pecan fried chicken. So signature honey pecan, you say pecan, I say pecan. Pecan sauce drizzled over perfectly marinated fried chicken, served with sauteed vegetables and mashed sweet potatoes. The second one that I've gotta do is shrimp gumbo because I love gumbo so much. Sautéed shrimp and dule sausage in a class and dewy. Listen, actually pause for a second. Melanie sent me this article, which I should have referenced before this episode. And she said, we need, this is for us. It's like basically an article for people who get names on menus wrong. Ha ha ha. So we apologize to this restaurant and all restaurants. Okay, and it also comes with savannah red rice and a house made bread. And then last but not least,
Melanie Avalon
You missed what it comes with, because I was going to ask you if you've had this, because this is like a staple Southern thing. Okra both? Okra, yes. Have you had okra? Have you had fried okra?
Barry Conrad
I can say that I have not. What does that taste like?
Melanie Avalon
So fried okra is a very staple southern vegetable, but it's, so okra is weird. It's like this green vegetable that's kind of like mucusy on the inside, but they fry it. It, I really liked it growing up, fried at least.
But if you, if you're in the South and you see fried okra, you're going to have to get some because it's, it has a very interesting texture.
Barry Conrad
It sounds really interesting. I've never actually heard it before.
Melanie Avalon
It's like these little balls that pop in your mouth.
Barry Conrad
I've never ever seen or heard of this before until today. There's like fried, yeah, there's like kind of ones you can pop in like a little dip over there.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, people. Yep.
Barry Conrad
Okay. And we'll learn something new every day.
I didn't know about that. And then last but not least, I was going to go for the seafood harvest platter, but I feel like even though I love oysters so much, I feel like I'm going to, because there's no oysters on their own, I'm just going to do a filet mignon actually, which is quill to your liking, served with mashed potatoes, salted broccolini, and topped with a house-made steak sauce. Sounds like a party in my tummy.
Melanie Avalon
What did you think I was going to get when you said you saw?
Barry Conrad
filet mignon.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, but I changed it up with a tenderloin. I also kind of want the Scottish salmon, the charred, crusted sumac salmon valet topped with Georgia peach, Georgia peach, but I should know this word, piccally, I don't know, served with mashed sweet potatoes and sauteed broccolini. So I'll just have some plain Scottish salmon.
That sounds good.
Barry Conrad
We're gonna have a big table, so this is gonna be fine. It's gonna be all fine. It's all good.
Melanie Avalon
It's all good. Shall we get dessert?
Barry Conrad
Ah, let's see what they've, whoa, what is that photo on the top? It's a crumbed sort of situation.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they say dessert of the day so they don't, they don't tell you what it is unless you're a little pirate. They got the kids, the kids dessert.
Barry Conrad
is like a Sunday like a bit this is gonna be actually you know what Mel because it's America I reckon the size is probably like the equivalent of like an Australian normal dessert probably for the kids one.
Melanie Avalon
Most likely, have you, now that you've been here a while, have you noticed the food? Does it make you feel any different eating the food here?
Barry Conrad
Do you know what, Melanie, I was actually kind of anticipating maybe feeling kind of different from different foods. But honestly, to be really honest, like, no, like I don't feel like my tummy has been unsettled. I don't feel no digestive issues at all, like zero. And I've eaten like array of food, like had like sort of New Orleans type cuisine in Washington, D.C. recently had just some, you know, Japanese fusion over here, American style food over here, pasta, bread, lots of things. And I feel my tummy feels pretty good. So, so far, so good.
Melanie Avalon
Nice. I was wondering if you were like making your own pasta because you realized the pasta here is not the best.
Barry Conrad
Well, yes. I mean, it's not like it doesn't taste the best. I would say, OK, let me zoom out. It does.
I don't feel any different eating it like physically, but the taste isn't as great of different things like the bread's not generally like store-bought bread is not generally that great. Animal protein generally, unless it's from like a good butcher, isn't always great, like things like that. And it's hard to find a good fishmonger. So things don't taste as good good so far, like, you know, to date, but I mean, I don't feel bad eating it.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I love that you're making your own, but it's kind of like when Jim was here, she was making her bread and then Vanessa would make, she would make all of these different keto things. I don't know if Cynthia made things.
I make cottage cheese and you make pasta.
Barry Conrad
I think you'd actually like my pasta Mel, how do you digest pasta, you go to the pasta?
Melanie Avalon
No, I don't eat pasta. I do have, I do actually, well, the gluten and the grains, but I do actually have a weed allergy, so.
Barry Conrad
Okay, well, there goes that. There's other stuff. I made cornbread the other night.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's a good, that's southern staple.
Barry Conrad
Anyway, I digress, so dessert, I guess we'll...
Melanie Avalon
have to see what the dessert of the day is. Do you see a drink that you want?
Barry Conrad
Oh, drinks, here we go, drinks, here we go. Okay, so we have feature cocktails. Guess what I'm gonna get, Mel? The Pirates Margarita. Yeah, you already know.
Like, it's just like very standard for me to get a margarita and then probably like a good, you know what? I've kind of intended to try a beer as well, like a local beer at this restaurant for some reason.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, and they have local Georgia wine.
Barry Conrad
maybe a beer and a wine like a white wine a beer and a cocktail.
Melanie Avalon
nice do they have the list of the beers let me look at the wine and see if there's anything this might be a uh okay i know i literally know every single red on this menu this is definitely going to be a sneaking wine in or bringing actually no no wait i'll bring a bottle of wine not sneak it in like pay a corkage fee
Barry Conrad
Oh, they do? Oh, that's so good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, did they do that in Australia?
Barry Conrad
They do. It's not like super common, but they do. Yeah, but they do some places.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's pretty, it's not abnormal at all. And if it's a fancy restaurant, it's actually, it's weird because at a fancy restaurant, you would think you would order wine from the wine list, but also people will bring in, you know, like they're really expensive, fancy bottles of wine. So it's not, it's not uncommon.
I had when I was working in fine dining, a lot of people would bring in bottles of wine.
Barry Conrad
So you're going to bring in a bottle of wine. We can enjoy that. And we have quite a feast there. So it sounds like a good situation to me.
Melanie Avalon
And then we can go to the gift shop.
Barry Conrad
And you get to say that.
Melanie Avalon
I just ran on the FAQ and they have over 700 items just waiting, just waiting for us.
Barry Conrad
I think, you know, what you can picture basically from the scenario is Mel will be dragging me into the gift store and I'll be like, Oh, this is really fun.
Melanie Avalon
You'll have so much fun. And then I'll like show you all the things.
There are some like staple things that I like to like, there's like categories of, do you have like category staple things to get at gift shops? Because I do.
Barry Conrad
I don't like, okay, I don't get the queuing thing because no one ever keeps them. They lose them. So not really key rings.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, have we not talked about this? Barry, have you seen my keychain, my keys?
No, have I? Okay, so every musical I go to, if they have a keychain and buy a keychain and I add it to my ever-growing blob of keychains, I'm that person with like, like the keychain is the size of like a small animal.
Barry Conrad
Okay, you're an endangered species then because a lot of people that I buy key have more key chains for in the past just like, oh, sorry, bro, I lost it or I don't have it anymore. So you don't you keep them.
Melanie Avalon
And, and I have like, there's like so many of them, you never lose your keys. Cause there's like 50 key chains on.
Barry Conrad
I need to see this. This is sort of rattles. So when you walk around you just like a rattle.
Melanie Avalon
It's heavy, too. There you go.
So I get a key chain or I get like a magnet, although I'm running out of room on the fridge. I love when they have Christmas ornaments because that's something you can really use. And then when you decorate the tree, you have the memory.
Barry Conrad
That is actually a really good idea, ornaments for the tree. I like that.
Melanie Avalon
Christmas ornaments are like a no-brainer, so. Although here, we might have to get like a shot glass or something, because it's, you know, pirate.
Barry Conrad
I can get done with that. I love a chocolat, so like a whiskey tumbler or something. Let's do that.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, this was super fun. Friends, thank you so much for spending your time with us. We appreciate you so much.
These show notes for today's episode will have links to everything that we talked about. Definitely check them out. They will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 454, and you can find all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. You can submit your own questions for the show by directly emailing questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much listeners for all your support and for tuning in again this week, and we'll catch you next week.
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week. Bye.
Bye, Mom. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.