Welcome to Episode 465 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 465 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX and author of What, Win, Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer, songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 465 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Barry Conrad for, I realize this episode airs in March and this is actually the first time we are recording together in 2026, so I'm excited. How are you, Barry?
Barry Conrad
I'm so excited. Hey, Mel. Hey, listeners, how are you doing? Hope you had an awesome weekend and you're ready for an amazing week.
I'm doing great. I'm freezing, but I'm doing great. It's really, really, really, really cold in New York. I know that we're in the future at this point when this airs, but it's still pretty chilly. How is it in an ATL, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
It warmed up today. It was cold. I'm sad. Spring is coming. I don't like March. I'm gonna be even like less happy when this actually airs. Not really. I'm a happy person, but I don't like spring.
Barry Conrad
why spring is such a good month because it's a good balance of sun and a nice cool temperature not too hot not too cold do you know what i mean
Melanie Avalon
So you know how they're like winter is coming. I'm like, spring is coming. That's so funny. Yeah. So I'll just take gratitude for it not being March yet.
Barry Conrad
It's so funny because listeners, I was talking, well, not talking, I was listening to a voice message from Melanie and she was relaying how she was out and it was freezing cold and she was not looking like an Eskimo. She was, you know, wearing summery clothes, you could say. And people were looking at her like her head was chopped off, like she was crazy because she loves the cold and people were like, why are you dressed like that? You're like, I like it.
Can you explain how that is comfortable? It's not.
Melanie Avalon
It's not comfortable because that's what I say. When people say, aren't you cold? I say yes, but I like it.
It doesn't, I mean, it's not like pleasant, but it makes you feel so good and it's good for you, so good for you.
Barry Conrad
I mean, at least you won't get uncomfortably hot, which is good. You can always be cosy, right?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Yeah.
Actually, I have two very pressing things for us to discuss. Tell me. For listeners. And one actually relates to one of the questions. But before that, and I realize, again, this will have happened a while ago, but Barry, we have to talk about the new food pyramid.
Barry Conrad
I know. Oh wow. I know. When I saw this come out, I was like finally A and B, you know, there's still a ways to go, but I'm really glad that it's changed.
What do you think? Like what went through your mind when you saw this headline, when you saw this news job?
Melanie Avalon
Well, it's funny. So when did, okay, I'm seeing, I'm looking at an article about it. So I guess this happened. I know, I know when it happened. It was the day after, well, it's January 7th, maybe. It was the day after I interviewed Gabrielle Lyon for this show. Listeners, definitely check out that episode that aired with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. It was episode... Wait, is it this week's episode right now? Yeah. So it was episode 458. If you missed it, check it out.
It is a treasure trove of all things protein and fasting and supporting muscle with aging and how to live forever strong. In any case though, she was going, the day I was interviewing her, she was going to DC the next day for this announcement. She already knew what it was going to be. I guess the people who know, they get the information ahead of time. But yeah, so it's wild because basically they flipped the old pyramid on its head essentially. So in the old pyramid, the bottom of it was grains, cereals, things like that. Then on top of that, fruits and veggies. Then on top of that, dairy and meat. And then the very top was like discretionary things. They inverted it. So it's an upside down pyramid now. And now at the top is protein, dairy, and healthy fats on one side, veggies and fruits on the other. And then it filters down. And honestly, I think some of it's kind of random, the ordering of it. Why is shrimp lower down? I focus on the shrimp one. I'm like, shrimp is great for you. Why is shrimp... I don't understand why shrimp is lower down. They still have at the top, olive oil. They have whole milk at the top, green beans. And why is the very, very top thing a chicken or a turkey? I just want to know how they decided the placement. There's like a steak on top and right below that is salmon. But then at the bottom is still whole grains, but because the pyramid is inverted, you're having more of fruits and veggies, protein, dairy, healthy fats, and less whole grains.
Barry Conrad
I'm loving that this change has happened. A, I don't know who decides. I mean, what compelled them to make this decision? I'm really, really curious.
And then secondly, I'm just really glad that protein's getting its glow up. You know, it's really finally up the top where it belongs. And, you know, fat was basically demonized before. Lower fat everything, high carb, grain, everything. And now it's just, it's much more of a, it's basically, it's a thing of the past now, the old one. And I like that we're not told that carbs is the foundation of health kind of thing anymore. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm, yeah. It's less about fear and more about balance. I think, you know, with seeing the steak up there with the salmon and the eggs, the shrimp should probably be bumped up a little bit. I know that you love shrimp. I could see that.
Melanie Avalon
Why is this room down there? I don't understand.
I think it's funny too how they okay so like the top is like fruit and veggies still but then like bananas and grapes they dropped down. I'm assuming because bananas are starchy but why grapes because they're sweeter like I just have a lot of questions. I love it. I still have questions.
Barry Conrad
I also do think maybe it's also like some of this is, and I could be totally projecting this, but maybe some of it is just a market is this way of making it look pretty as well, the order of everything. I don't know.
Or do you think it's just solely based on the foods?
Melanie Avalon
I would say yes. And I feel like it's such a momentous, big decision that you would assume they're putting thought into it.
Because like, why are, I mean, grapes, I understand are sweeter, a sweeter fruit, and they have berries up top, but like, why are oranges like a little bit higher than grapes? And then what is that thing above grapes? Is that a spaghetti squash?
Barry Conrad
It looks like a squash or like a but like butternut or a squash.
Melanie Avalon
an apple is above it. Apples are sweet though, avocado in the middle. And why is butter lower down than dairy?
Barry Conrad
That should be above dairy because it's sort of like creme de la creme of dairy butter, really.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I guess because it's like just a pure, pure fat. What is beneath? Are you looking at a picture in real time right now?
Barry Conrad
I'm looking, I'm looking at the picture here.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, you see like the turkey and then the cheese. Is that ground beef below it?
Barry Conrad
Maybe that's turkey, another big turkey, maybe that's ground beef or ground meat of some sort. Maybe there's ground beef, I think it's ground beef, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Well, in any case... Oh, something I do like about it is the old pyramid included, like the very, very tippy top of the old pyramid was... In the picture I'm looking at, it's not showing what it was, but from my memory, it was like unhealthy stuff, like stuff you probably shouldn't be eating. There's nothing... Everything in here is a whole food.
Well, I mean, by a whole food, I mean, there's like grains, but everything is... They're not putting in cupcakes or... Everything in here is close to a whole food.
Barry Conrad
I'm looking at the, that's wrong. Well, the 90s, the 1980s food pyramid I'm looking at, vegetables are like right at the top, then dairy and eggs, then meat and fish and poultry, then sugary. It's so funny how it's changed.
Over time. Over time, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I will say, okay, I'm looking, I remember. This is the way I remember it. I remember it being fats, oil, sugar, and salt at the top.
Okay. I highly recommend checkout for listeners, the work of, or my podcast interview with Marian Nestle. She wrote a lot of books. One is called Food Politics, but she's been heavily involved in like the political side of this type of stuff. And it's a real, she goes through the entire history. She answers your question that you just asked about like, how was the pyramid determined? How did it evolve? What incentives were involved? And it's all very, it's all very political and money driven.
Barry Conrad
I'm not surprised.
Melanie Avalon
But this is like, I mean, from my perspective, health driven.
Barry Conrad
I think so as well, and I do think it's a massive step in the right direction for people to see this and for young people coming up to be taught this, hopefully in school and to say, hey, this is what a balanced diet could look like, a balanced way of eating.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And question, is this the way you eat?
Barry Conrad
I mean, yes, protein first for me, for sure. I would say that's way more indicative of the way I eat than the old pyramid who got the lots and lots of meat and see if you're at the top. And then yeah, avocado, eggs. I would actually say yes. This is a pretty good representation of how I eat.
How about email?
Melanie Avalon
We should make our own food pyramids. Mine would be meat at the very top and then underneath, fruit, and then nothing else.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny. I can actually picture that like me at the very like top layer and then just fruit.
Melanie Avalon
and some cucumbers, which are a fruit vegetable. So awesome.
Well, I'm just very, very happy. I was nervous because Gabrielle was saying that, because I asked her what she was anticipating happening. And she said she was anticipating it getting published. And then there being like a lot of pushback and like attempts to like take it back. But I mean, it looks like it's still standing, hopefully, hopefully come March.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, please do. Please stand. We need this.
Melanie Avalon
I don't stand. So yeah, okay.
The second one, it's a question for you. And I'll go ahead and read the part of the question. So one of our listeners had two questions. And one of them relates to my question for you. So it was from Kelly. And she said, thoughts on the claim that any alcohol is bad for you. Barry, I'm dying to know again, this is in the past when listeners listen, but how was your dry January? And do you think any alcohol is bad for you?
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. Okay. Two things. Try January was actually really good. I did enjoy it for that. It gave me a sense of control, like it was something to stick to. I didn't feel pressured, you know, going out to drink. Not that I ever do really, but it's just like it was interesting to take a step back and not just drink alcohol just because it's there. I do love my drinks, as you know, and listeners know, but it was really nice. And I do think that with earlier nights as well and other life hacks that I implemented, I do feel way optimized right now. You know, right? I really, really do. I feel rested. I feel energized, strong. Yeah, I feel great.
And then secondly, Kelly asked, you know, is there, is any alcohol bad for you? I don't believe that that claim that, you know, Kelly, it's a good question. And it's something that not just you are listeners wonder about, but so many people, even my mom at one point, I love you mom, but she was like, alcohol is bad for you. Did you see the new article that came out? I'm like, mom, that's you can't just believe all every headline that you read. On one side, you'll hear things like a glass of wine a day is good for your heart. And then on the other side, any alcohol is bad for you. And I think that Mel, like most things in the health, it's the context. You know, people can can say that, but they're usually referencing what they're usually referencing, I think, as a population level data rather than anything else. And I think looking at big groups of people, alcohol doesn't come out as a health supplement. It can impact sleep quality, inflammation, liver health, gut health, insulin sensitivity, purely biological. You know, you don't need alcohol for health. I mean, that part is true. But where I do think where it gets unhealthy, Kelly is when it ignores real life and humans don't live in labs, you know, or experiments. And I think that, you know, for celebrations and culture and routine, you know, we live in those times. And for me, personally, alcohol is not something I view as a health tool. I also don't view it as some moral failure or something that really impacts me negatively. And I am fortunate enough to metabolize alcohol pretty well. And it's not something that I've really had a problem with. My bloods are all great. And I consume quite a bit of it when I'm cooking and whatnot. I do think, you know, frequency does matter. Quantity does matter. It's important to be mindful of anything that we consume. But I don't think any and all alcohol is bad. What do you think, Phil?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. I was actually talking about this. I went on somebody else's podcast yesterday. Actually, it was Dr. Anna Marie. She has the Happy Whole You podcast. And we were talking about this. And I'm really intrigued because I do feel like right now there is this very intense, like sober curious moment and kind of like anti-alcohol moment. And I don't know that it, like where it's coming from. I don't actually, okay, I don't know if it's actually coming from the health stuff as much as it's like an identity type thing, like the zeitgeist, like the cool thing to do, if that makes sense.
Because, well, a few different things and I'll, and I've talked about this a lot, so I'll try to be brief. But if we look at the longest lived populations in the world, they all have moderate alcohol intake with the exception of Loma Linda. And context is important. So I think there's a huge difference. People lump alcohol into this one thing. And so they equate having like a Cosmo or like a mixed cocktail with lots of sugar and high alcohol. That's basically just like alcohol and sugar is a lot of those cocktails compared to like a dry wine, which is lower in alcohol, high in polyphenols, been linked to quite a few different health benefits, can support nitric oxide production, like so many even might even support the gut microbiome, like a lot of different things. And those are just not the same thing. And I think lumping all of alcohol, it's like you were saying, like it can be too binary. It's not like it's all good or all bad. And context and the type of alcohol I think is important. I also think a lot of it has to do with your relationship with it. So if you have an unhealthy relationship with it, if you're using it as a crutch or a way to escape your life, or that's obviously not good. If you're drinking to excess, that's not going to be healthy. But if you have a healthy relationship where you enjoy the experience, it enhances experiences for you of the world and goes well with your meal, I don't think is any alcohol bad for you? I would not say yes to that. Is any alcohol bad for you? Yes, I would not say yes. I think it's all context driven. And I mean, it's even literally you get points for it on the mind diet, which is the most studied diet to reverse cognitive decline, like you get points for having red wine. So on that diet, it's like a good thing. But I support again, people do what you want. But I am really intrigued. But I think about this a lot, the sober curious movement, I'm like, where is this coming from?
Barry Conrad
I do think, and I do know people as well, and I'm sure that you do, and most people listening might have heard of people saying, oh, you know, alcohol makes me break out or alcohol makes me sleep badly or it makes me get headaches, you know, and I think people can blanket a whole entire, just all alcohol is doing that. But yeah, as Mel was saying, it's what kind of alcohol are you drinking? It's not all bad.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So like, for example, if I were to, depending on the choices I make, if I were to drink certain drinks, I would get all of the symptoms. It would mess up my sleep. I wouldn't feel well.
I'd probably get hangovers. But if I make conscious decisions, I don't get any of that. And I do think it's enhancing my health. So yeah. And then Kelly did have one other question, which was, a friend of ours is claiming that taking red yeast rice has greatly reduced their cholesterol. So I guess she wants to know if red yeast rice can reduce cholesterol.
Barry Conrad
Right. I think that people who have that experience, it's not uncommon or unheard of thing and red yeast does, red yeast rice does contain a compound called monocolons, which they're chemically similar to statins. So it can lower cholesterol in some people.
And is cholesterol elevated because of insulin resistance, inflammation, genetic stress, poor sleep, or is it that? What do you think, Mel? I mean, I don't know if it's just that. It could also be a combination of lifestyle factors. And I think as well, with the rise of the, as you were saying before, the sober movement per se, sometimes people can maybe look for all reasons to say, oh, because of this reason, I should try this then.
Melanie Avalon
So I was actually really interested to look into this because I had not, like I'd heard before that this is great for cholesterol. And I had made the assumption, because I feel like we say that about a lot of different, quote, natural supplements, like, Oh, it's good for this. Oh, it's good for that. And it quite often is.
And at the same time, it may feel that it's a more passive effect. I didn't realize, and you mentioned it, that so red yeast rice, so it's called mono colon K. And it's chemically identical to lobostatin, a prescription statin drug, which was wild to me. I was like, Oh, okay, that's interesting. So I think the, well, let's talk about some of the studies. So, um, let's see, this thing I'm reading says that while it can lower cholesterol, it is not a gentle herb the way people sometimes assume. And then it says it is more accurate to think of it as an unregulated statin. And I think that's the big mind blow moment I had, because I was thinking of think of it like, Oh, you know, this might help your cholesterol. I didn't realize it literally has the compound that is like taking a statin. So they've done multiple randomized trials and meta analysis. They show that it can lower LDL by 15 to 30% with typical total reductions around 35 to 40 milligrams a deciliter compared with placebo. These reductions are similar in size to those seen with low to moderate intensity statin doses. There's been at least one large secondary prevention trial in people with prior heart attacks. And they found that it was associated with fewer cardiac events. And then so basically, okay, last thing. So standardized preparations when they're doing these tests and trials, they use the equivalent of 10 milligrams a day of this monoclon K. The problem that comes in here is a lot of people are, I mean, obviously people are getting this over the counter usually. And if we know one thing that we've talked about on the show for quite a long time, it can be really hard to know that you're getting what you think you're getting when it comes to supplements. So you know, you just don't even really know unless you really, really trust the brand. But to answer your question, Kelly, yeah, I probably did. Assuming that she has a supplement form or brand that actually has enough of the active form of this monoclon K. Yeah, I think it probably did do that.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, which I think is pretty amazing. I do think as well when it comes to things like cholesterol, you know, it's important not to treat it too casually as well without really understanding how it works and even consulting with your doctor and whatnot as well.
Not just relying on that. If you feel like it's reduced your cholesterol as well, it's worth checking out just to get peace of mind.
Melanie Avalon
Definitely. So, okay. Well, do you have a study for us to talk about?
Barry Conrad
I have a study for us and this study is called early time restricted feeding improves insulin sensitivity blood pressure and oxidative stress even without weight loss in men with pre-diabetes. This was actually carried out by researchers at the University of Alabama at Birmingham and published in Cell Metabolism. And it's kind of one of it, it's a bit of a treat for me because I actually, we had the pleasure of interviewing the lead researcher Dr. Courtney Peterson on the show a while back and she was the lead researcher of this study and it stood out because, especially for men, because it looked at intermittent fasting through the lens of metabolic health rather than just weight loss. And so Courtney and the researchers recruited these guys, eight adult men, all with pre-diabetes and these guys were overweight mostly in their fifties, so middle age. And at that stage where blood sugar regulations sort of starts heading in that wrong direction for some people, but before full type 2 diabetes really sets in. So the design was super tight. It was a crossover study, which means like every participant tried both eating patterns and acted as his own control. Also in one phase, for example, the men followed early time restricted eating, they ate all their meals within a six hour window, usually finishing early afternoonish, around two. And in the other phase, they followed a more typical 12 hour eating window spread across the day. And that's important to note because calories were matched as well. So no one was trying to lose weight, the foods stayed the same. The only thing that changed was when they ate. And what happened next is why the study gets talked about is because even without losing weight, even without losing weight, the key phrase there, the men who followed early time restricted eating saw significant improvements in insulin sensitivity. And for listeners who are new to our show, in simple terms, their bodies got better at handling blood sugar. And that's huge for preventing diabetes and protecting like long term metabolic health. And their blood pressure also dropped both at the top and the bottom, which directly ties into that cardiovascular risk as well. So they also measured oxidative stress, which you can how do you explain that sort of what you can think of like an internal wear and tear on our bodies and high oxidative stress is linked to things like aging and chronic disease. So under early time restricted eating, those markers improved too. So again, this all happened without weight loss, which is a huge deal, especially for men who care about health and performance, not just the number on the scale.
But what I also love about the study, Mel, is what what didn't change. So muscle mass was preserved. We love that muscle mass preserved resting metabolism stayed stable. So this wasn't about shrinking the body or burning it out. It was about efficiency and timing and their hunger didn't spiral. Like, in fact, the men reported feeling way less hungry in the evenings once their bodies adapted to that that early eating window. And having spoken to Dr.
Barry Conrad
Courtney, what really stuck with me was how grounded and cautious she is about all this. And she was very clear that that this isn't about extremes or forcing yourself into misery.
And to all this is coming, new listeners come to the show as well, we want to communicate that as well. It's about working with our body's natural rhythms. And the study really supports that beautifully. So how can we relate that back to Ayaf and you guys, especially the dudes tuning in as well. This research shows that fasting isn't just just about weight loss. It's also for metabolic health and you can really improve insulin sensitivity, reduce your internal stress without cutting your calories or losing muscle. That's pretty powerful for all our gents out there who want longevity, resilience and clarity as they age. So, yeah, Mel, what do you think about the study?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is absolutely amazing. I love it so much because there's always like the ongoing debate about, well, fasting versus calorie restriction and are the benefits from fasting all due to weight loss or are they all due to calorie restriction? And this clearly shows that no, that there is, you know, benefits just from having that shorter eating window. And I like that they're doing like a six hour eating window too, because they do feel like that's shorter than a lot of the windows they'll do in the studies. Like oftentimes they'll do like an eight or an eight hour window or longer. And it's also interesting that the control was 12 hours of a window because some other studies even consider that a, like a fasting window.
You reached out to her, right? Originally?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, what actually happened was I found a study that I was trying to bring to the show and I couldn't find the full text, the full document, and there was an option to reach out to the researcher. And so she was the researcher and I emailed her asking if I could potentially get a copy of that and she said, sure thing, also I'd love to actually come on your show and just talk about intermittent fasting. So that's how it happened.
I wasn't trying to get on the show at all. I just by chance tried to get the full PDF to read about it and then she's like, I'd love to talk about it. And that's how I caught on it. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
It's so funny. I feel like a lot of these researchers like really want to talk about their work, you know, like we could probably just reach out to researchers all day and interview them constantly if we, you know, did that because they probably don't really get a they talk within their, their circles, but unless they're, you know, doing a book or, you know, publicly trying to promote something, I feel like there's not that many opportunities to go and talk about it to, you know, the everyday people like outside of a scholarly setting.
So yeah, no, this is amazing, though.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I was actually just talking about this topic recently with a friend, how oftentimes you're so right about researchers wanting to actually talk about what they do. A lot of times, not always, but sometimes on social media, if somebody does claim to know everything about everything, it's probably a red flag.
A lot of these researchers that do have social media are very specific in what they do share and they're very quick to say that they don't know if they don't know much. That's why I think, yeah, so when they do that opportunity, they're happy to share freely without any sort of catch. Yeah, I just spoke to that point for sure.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and oh, amazing. So maybe we'll start reaching out to more of them.
And I also really love it that she measured. And like you were saying, I can tell by talking to you talking to her that, you know, she's very passionate about this and really cares about testing all the things. So while blood pressure, insulin sensitivity, oxidative stress, bring on the fasting. Of course, you know, the one thing that doesn't work for me from this, right?
Barry Conrad
Say it, Mel. Let us know.
Melanie Avalon
Do you know? But why? But why? Tell us. Early. Yeah. Have dinner done by three o'clock?
Barry Conrad
That's just never going to work in Mel and Evelyn's world, everyone. She is a night owl through and through.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so Courtney, I need you to do this study now and do the window, not even starting at 3am. Yeah, do the window ending at 3am.
Barry Conrad
That's so funny.
Melanie Avalon
They would do like six to midnight, five to 11, five to 11 p.m. Yeah, I would like I would like to see that.
Barry Conrad
I wonder if Melanie's neighbors, you know, if they wake up in the middle of the night, they can hear like an oven going or an air fry going or something like, like, who's cooking this time of night? It's like Melanie.
Melanie Avalon
I know. I was thinking that last night when I was pounding my steak with a mallet and I was like, hope they can't hear this.
Barry Conrad
I think you're fine. If I don't break, don't fix it, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. So, awesome. Well, awesome find. Thank you.
You're welcome. Okay, shall we? Something we said we were going to do from last time we recorded together. This is how long ago it was. We were going to talk about, we had been talking about these eating tips. So, this was in an article about winter holidays and eating and how much do people actually gain during the holidays. And so, this episode aired quite a while ago. They gave 10 eating tips and we went through the first five and we said if we agreed or not, shall we go through the last five? So, again, for listeners, this was tips and tricks. And we did the first five. So, number six, and again, this was for the winter. This can apply, though, obviously, to any time that you are working on monitoring your food intake. So, they say that winter evenings are often spent in front of the TV watching our favorite movies with the family. Eating while watching TV can lead to increased food intake and a possible explanation lies in the multidimensional nature of distraction. It has been argued that once distracted from internal cues like hunger and satiety, an individual will eat mindlessly and their food intake will not be coded in certain ways which influence their desire to eat. The healthiest way to eat is at the table while enjoying the food. Do you agree?
Barry Conrad
Okay, two things. I do think that eating while watching any kind of movie or anything like that does distract you and you do eat more than what usually would. I definitely do. At the same time, I'm more in tune with my hunk of cues, so I don't indulge as much as I used to. I do love sitting at the table eating dinner, but it's not necessarily the healthiest way.
There's nothing more magical about doing it. You can still control your eating while watching food. So, both things. You can get distracted and eat too much, but you can also take your plate over and eat a healthy, balanced meal. What do you think, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
So do you regularly eat while watching TV?
Barry Conrad
No, I would actually say now, like I like to sit at the table, like love to cook, make it like a moment, but if it's like a weekend or there's a show on or something like that, sit in front of the TV and maybe eat something, but it's pretty rare. I like to eat at the table. What about you?
Melanie Avalon
It's ironic. So I don't have a table, but I have a counter. It's so ironic because I actually agree.
I think if everybody just ate and was not like watching or consuming other content, like electronic type content, that you would be much more in tune with your food signals. Like when you're, when you check out from eating and you're just like consuming other content, like you almost don't even, it's just like a dopamine thing. Like you might not even realize how much you're eating. The irony of it is I always while eating, I don't watch TV, but I read, I research, I read my books, I take notes and I really enjoy it. So like, I know, I don't know. Like for me, I think the happiness that I get from the habit that I have of eating for a long time while reading my books and researching, maybe it's not the most mindful way and maybe I'm eating more, but I really enjoy it. So I'm going to do it. I'm going to keep doing it.
Barry Conrad
I think that's great. Yeah, it works for you.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I guess it can be like a both and like it's not ideal, but it's what I'm doing.
Barry Conrad
Also, I feel like isn't isn't reading or taking notes and stuff. It's a bit more engaging in it and intentional rather than sitting there.
If you if you just sat there with your hand in a bowl of something, you'd probably forget what's in the bowl and you just keep on just eating. Right. That's what a lot of people would do.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, it's probably a good thing that like popcorn is so low calorie because think about how much, well, I guess depending on how much butter you put on it, but think about how much people mindlessly popcorn like at the movie theater, you know.
Barry Conrad
Yep.
Melanie Avalon
So, okay. So their next tip was they say in winter stores tempt us with hundreds of sparkling, colorfully packaged products that reduce prices. That's always the case though.
I don't know why that's specific to winter. So ignore that first sentence. It says, check the fat, sugar, and number of calories on food labels when shopping and preparing food. Imagine how hard it would be to burn calories from a dessert rich in sugar and fat. Okay. So this is a two thing. It's a checking labels and then it's imagining how hard it is to burn it off. I feel like this is... Okay. What do you think?
Barry Conrad
I think, okay, let me zoom out for a second, because Melanie, you already know my stance on holiday time and things like that. I'm a bit more liberal and I'll enjoy it.
That doesn't mean I'm going to go crazy. I'll still look at the label, but I'm more inclined to go, oh, this is something that I look forward to the holidays, so I'm going to grab it and put it in the cart. I'm not just going to go crazy. And also, yeah, sure, it'll be hard to burn the calories, but I work out and train all year round and intermittent fast all year round. So when it comes to the holidays and things like that, the winter, it's totally fine. I don't even think twice about it. You know what I mean? No guilt. What about you?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So two, two big thoughts here. One, I think this is the point. So like, I strongly agree with what you said.
And this article is the tip I would put here is intermittent fasting because it takes care of so much of this. Like you don't have to so consciously like think about that because of intermittent fasting and how it handles everything for you in a way by choosing the time window rather than focusing so much on the calories or, or things like that. I used to, I remember I used to do that all the time. I used to like imagine like when I wanted something, I'd like think in my head like, okay, I have to work. I have to like run on the treadmill this amount of time to burn this off. Like I never do that anymore, which I'm really, really grateful for because that was not a fun mind game to play. But here's my thing about the checking the labels. I would suggest buy things that don't have labels. So I mean, like fruits and vegetables don't have fat, sugar and calorie labels usually. I mean, they do if they're like packaged frozen fruit, meat products, like going to the butcher counter and getting chicken, like there's not going to be a label for fat, sugar and calories. So when you're looking at labels, it's more often the packaged foods, which I think that's where a lot of the issues come in.
Barry Conrad
I think that's a really good point and I'll buy things without a label on it. You know, you don't see a stake with a, you know, nutrition table on it or a piece of fruit, vegetables.
Melanie Avalon
Or if you do, like with the steak, it's not usually, because they said fat sugar. I guess it shows like fat, I guess sugar would be zero.
I guess they do have labels sometimes, but my point is like the long labels that in the, in the aisles of the grocery store, if you can avoid them, that will be.
Barry Conrad
It's so much more freeing, just fasting, because it's what we do most of the time. I believe it is what you do most of the time that really matters. You don't have to overthink things here and there.
It's amazing, Mel, how the diet brain, quote unquote, does leave with time because you're doing it consistently. You're intermittent fasting consistently. You don't think about food in the same way.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly, exactly. So, okay, number eight, this is a long one. Okay, so it says, in general, respondents ordered the lowest calorie meals when they were shown the menu with, this is what I was saying, when they were shown the menu with calorie information and the number of miles they would have to walk to burn those calories. Those who were shown the menu with information about calories and the number of minutes of walking to burn those calories also chose lower calorie meals, but not quite as much. Okay, so it's more effective to be told you're gonna have to walk five miles than to be told you're gonna have to walk for 50 minutes, but it still works. Okay, comparisons revealed a difference in the total number of calories ordered from the menu with miles walked compared to the menu without nutritional information. Therefore, choose wisely, read the labels, including when shopping for the holidays.
Let's see, so what is our actual tip here? Because they did like labels before. They say in the holiday season can be stressful because people want the house to be perfectly decorated, the food to be tasty, the gifts to please everyone. This can trigger long-term emotional problems associated with loneliness, anxiety, and depression. In stressful times, such as these, so I guess we can make this applicable to any stressful time, the consumption of comfort foods is very common, high in calories, fat, and sugar. When rats were given highly palatable foods, their stress, oh, okay, so when rats were presented with a choice of highly palatable food, like lard or sugar, stress increased intake. Oh, okay, so more stressed rats eat more highly palatable foods, humans do it too. Okay, so here's the tip. It is important to keep stress levels under control with sports, yoga, meditation, and deep breathing. That's our tip.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. Do I agree with that? Sure. Yeah.
I also do think as well an interesting thing about stress is that, and I'm thinking about the Dr. Gabrielle Lyon episode where you talk to her and she said something along the lines of that we have one word for all these things, right? Like stress, like grieving, work stress, health stress, life stress, but some stress is actually good for you. So yeah, it's important to keep stress levels down, but I don't think that you should be afraid to feel some level of challenge or stress and be afraid that that's going to cause you to, you know, be a glutton and overeat. In saying that, I do definitely realize that there are people out there who struggle with that, with emotional eating when they're stressed. I know people like that. So for me personally, I don't agree because it's not something that affects me, but absolutely. I know that that's a real thing for a lot of people. What about you, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
So something I really like about this, about intermittent fasting and how it helps with stress, because I agree completely. And like you said, Barry and like Dr. Gabrielle Lyon talks about like there are different forms of stress. So there's physical stress, there's intense like rumination, worry, anxiety, emotional stress, and not all stress is bad.
And we should be a big takeaway from her book is like, do hard things, like do challenging things every day, and that I think that reframe is really helpful. Something I really like about intermittent fasting and having a set window is in the past, yes, before fasting, if I was stressed, I probably would turn to food to deal with stress. But with fasting, I have my window, and it helps with stress, but it actually gives me it gives me a sense of calm knowing that I have my eating window and that I can eat in the eating window. I don't have to worry about like eating mindlessly to deal with stress at other times, because it's just not even an option on the table, no pun intended, in a way. And I really look forward to like my meal every night, it brings me like I said, a sense of like peace and calm, so it actually helps me with stress. So while food could have helped me with stress in the past by mindlessly eating hyper palatable foods. Now it's like the consistency of the window, the benefits of the fasting also helps me with stress, but without without making me even more stressed and more unhealthy by turning to food as a crutch.
Barry Conrad
It's amazing.
Melanie Avalon
sports would not help me with stress. That would make me more stressed.
Yoga, yoga and meditation meditation. I still I know some people I mean, I did try a practice. It's just not my like, I'm not a daily meditator. Do you meditate?
Barry Conrad
I want to say that I do more active meditation, meaning my way of doing it is I like to go on a long walk and just think and take in the environment around me, and that's my way of meditating. It's not I'm not sitting down necessarily and speaking anything out or whatnot, but I think you can do active meditations.
That's sort of my way of doing it. Being in nature, going for a long walk and being free from distractions.
Melanie Avalon
I like that. Yeah, I feel like you have to find what works for you for dealing with stress. There's so many options out there and different things work for different people. So find what works for you.
Barry Conrad
and working out, of course, in the gym.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, two more. So number nine, a lack of sleep leads to metabolic and hormonal balances such as decreased glucose tolerance, decreased insulin sensitivity, increased cortisol, increased ghrelin, which is the hunger hormone, decreased leptin, which is the fullness hormone, increased hunger and appetite. So even if you're busy, sleep as much as your body needs.
A 2011 study found that, let's see, sleep and obesity, there's association between sleep and obesity in both adults and children. Most of them showed a significant association between short sleep, which was considered less than six hours per night, and increased risk of obesity. A meta-analysis of 18 studies of 604,509 adults showed a pooled obesity odds ratio of 1.9 to 0.55 for less than five hours of sleep, and a dose effect of sleep duration. So each additional hour of sleep BMI decreased by 0.35 kilograms. Oh, that's interesting. So they actually don't express the tip, but I'm assuming the tip is... Oh, they did. They said, get your sleep, I guess. Yeah, sleep as much as your body needs. You don't have to convince me of that one. I'm all on board with that one.
Barry Conrad
Me too. And especially lately, Mel, like when I did Dry January, part of January as well was having a set winding down time. And that really, really, really, really, really helped me so much.
And that meant like no phone in the room, you know, after that, from that one down point, just read, you know, until I actually get tired and that man, like you wind down so much faster when you're not distracted by blue light and your phone and all these different things. And you sleep so much better. And I've just had the best sleep ever this month.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm having flashbacks of childhood when I used to like read in bed, but the problem with me for that was I would read like all night.
I was a reader. I was, I was a reader. Were you a reader?
Barry Conrad
Maybe not all night, but yeah, I can I can see that happening. What would you what was like your childhood favorite books?
Melanie Avalon
I would literally, so we would go to Sanibel Island in the summer for like six weeks, and they had this incredible library, and I'm trying to think how I would do this. I would go like once a week and get the max number of books on the library card, which I think was like 15 books or so, and I would just like read all of them, and then like go back the next week and like read more.
And it did... Have I told you this before? I'm convinced that it like permanently messed up my spelling, because I have a tendency to spell things the British way.
Barry Conrad
Really? You haven't told me this.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because I would read all of the Jane Austen and all of these British novels, like all the classics. So there are so many words that I spell the British way.
Barry Conrad
That's so interesting. Now that I know that I'll probably see it more like, yeah, well still now.
Melanie Avalon
Now I can never remember how it's spelled. I'll never know if it's an OU or just an O, because it's usually an OU in the British form.
I'm trying to think of one. I'll think of one. It'll come to me randomly.
Barry Conrad
I know, like favourite, you know, F-A-V-O-R-I-T-E or F-A-V-O-U-R-I-T-E.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's a good one. And wait, so the English is F-A-V-O-R-I-T-E?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, we say that in Australia as well.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I loved reading. Okay, last one, number 10. To make everything simpler, look for a friend to team up with to be motivated and accountable. How do you feel about accountability partners?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think that's a great, I think that's a great tip and that can apply to so many areas of like life where it's working out or studying or going through emotional hard times. Teaming up with a buddy, you're always better with somebody else by your side to help you along and to spray you on and to, you know, cheer you up.
It's great.
Melanie Avalon
100%. It's probably more effective for people who are, is it Gretchen Rubin, the whole upholder? Do you fulfill inner or outer expectations? I bet people who fulfill outer expectations, that's more effective for them.
Some people might not need accountability partners if they only care about inner expectations, but I think in general, most people can benefit from that.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Well, shall we break our proverbial fast?
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, I'm so looking forward to this. Yes, we should.
Melanie Avalon
So I found this restaurant a while ago and I've been saving it. I've been saving it.
Barry Conrad
Can you give me a clue of what is it something that we've had in the past was it something new?
Melanie Avalon
I don't think there's any way you're gonna guess.
Barry Conrad
I know. I love surprises.
Melanie Avalon
Well, so it's my friend, so Dr. Caroline Leaf, who I've had on the show multiple times, her daughter Dominique, I'm really good friends with her, and Dominique travels like all over the world all the time. It's inspiring, honestly.
And she was going to Buenos Aires, I can't say it, on her way to Antarctica. I think that's where, I think it was like the stop where the ship left for Antarctica. And so she was really excited because they have their, apparently, one of the best steakhouses in the entire world.
Barry Conrad
What? That's not what I would have thought of Antarctica.
Melanie Avalon
It's not in Antarctica. It's in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Barry Conrad
Buenos Aires. Yeah, also I've been there and that's an amazing place. Oh, you have? Yeah, I sang there. That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Have we been to a steakhouse there?
Barry Conrad
I have, but I don't know if it's going to be the one that send me the link and I'll have a look. You want to tell me what it is?
Melanie Avalon
So I'll tell you why it's special, let's see, hold on. And she sent me pictures from when she went and it was literally like a steak tasting, like they had all these different steaks.
Barry Conrad
Sounds like my idea of heaven, you know I love steak as much as you do.
Melanie Avalon
I know. So it's a world-renowned top tier steakhouse, often ranked among the best. It has a Michelin star. It's famous for high-quality grass-fed beef, expert grilling, sustainable practices, an extensive wine cellar with a premium cozy dining experience.
So here it is. It's called Don Julio, which sounds like alcohol. Isn't that the name of an alcohol?
Barry Conrad
That is really funny.
Melanie Avalon
And I actually haven't looked at the menu yet, so we're going to do this together in real time.
Barry Conrad
Okay. Ready? I haven't been to, I can confirm, I haven't been to this restaurant, but the meat there is so good. Seriously. It was amazing.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, in Argentina.
Barry Conrad
Yep. And in Brazil as well. Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, just all so good.
Melanie Avalon
Okay friends, so they don't really have a menu online, but we are looking at pictures that somebody took who went in, so I think we have the whole menu-ish, kind of.
Barry Conrad
So I would get from the status, do you mean the, the, up the top there, the eperturf?
Melanie Avalon
That's a those are drinks.
Barry Conrad
Okay, but will we have a drink first? Do you want to have some food first?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, if you want one of those, I don't have wine, but.
Barry Conrad
From the starters, I would probably get the empanadas because I do love empanadas so much. And I'll probably get both the beef and the sweet corn.
So I'm not, it's carne and then humita. So I'll probably get both of those because I love empanadas, they're really good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they have empanadas, grilled cheeses, homemade sausages, and awful, awful dishes, which I think I might, I don't know, actually maybe not, I don't know if I'm brave enough to try the, do you like, is it awful, is that how you say it? Like kidneys, cheddar lorins, sweet breads.
Barry Conrad
I would definitely also get, yes, because I've had like chicken hearts and all those kinds of things. I've had all that kind of stuff.
I would absolutely be game to try those. Would you try some with me if I got the email?
Melanie Avalon
So okay, tell okay, tell me what the chitterlings that's like intestines, right?
Barry Conrad
I believe so. I don't know what sweet breads are though.
Melanie Avalon
Chitterlings are cleaned and cooked small intestines, and then sweet bread is the thymus and pancreas glands. Okay, so they got those, and they got kidneys, and they got a selection of everything.
What's funny is I love... I'm very carnivorous. Well, I guess I haven't had them, so maybe I like them. I would taste it, yes.
Barry Conrad
Cause I can't imagine it would be prepared in a really crazy way. I think it would be, cause they want to preserve the taste, you know? So I think it'd be pretty good actually.
Melanie Avalon
It's also very expensive to not like it. These prices are insane. OK, so we'll survive the appetizers. Are you going to get one of those drinks at the top?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think I'm going to do Americano, which is Campari, Sensano, Agua, Congas, Hilo, Rodgias, Darnanja, basically sparkling wine, ice, orange slices, Campari, Sensano. It sounds like a headache waiting to happen, but I'm all for trying it because it's the drink of the place.
I will try it.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, and then we also have salads. Do you want a salad?
Barry Conrad
I could probably pass. When in Argentina, when in Buenos Aires, you want to just get into that meat.
Melanie Avalon
go all out. So looking at the actual menu of the grilled meats, they have so many. So they have beef cuts, lean cuts, bone-in cuts, pork, and chicken. Oh, and grilled prawns represent at the bottom!
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. What's catching your eye, Mel? So much to choose from.
Melanie Avalon
I would probably have a, one of the lean cuts probably. I don't, I need to know more. Like this would just be like a big education piece for me.
Like learning about the different types. So probably one of the, one of the tenderloins. I would like to try, I wish they had like a sampler platter of like different ones. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I would do the lean tenderloin steak, and then I'd also do the short ribs, and because I do love pork, so I would do the pork loin, I'm just going to go for it, and then half a free range chicken is not that big, so I get that as well. And some prawns, that'll be my salad.
It's a very expensive meal.
Melanie Avalon
It is. I would have to look, yeah, so basically for listeners, they have all these different cuts. They have rum steak, tenderloin, brochette, which apparently is skewered form. They have thin sirloin, thick sirloin, ribeye. I would just, I would talk to the waiter and ask, yeah, like what are their favorites? Yeah, but probably the tenderloin.
And I also love pork, so I'd have some of that and, yeah, and prawns. How would you get it cooked?
Barry Conrad
Medium rare. Love medium rare.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I want it as blue as they will give it to me.
Barry Conrad
You're going to say that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I think we, oh, do you want any of the sides?
Barry Conrad
Let's have a look here.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I actually might get a side here. This might be like the first time I like want a side.
Barry Conrad
I think, are you going to get the eggplant? No. Are you going to get grilled vegetables? No. For your own eggs?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Or the scrambled eggs. I might ask if they can give me like scrambled eggs with the zucchini and cream cheese on the side. But eggs, I love eggs. I love that it's like a side dish option.
Barry Conrad
I think, is that the first time you've ordered, well, that there's kind of an eggs in a menu and B, that you've, I've heard you actually talk about ordering eggs?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I feel like it's not normally, because we're not normally looking at breakfast menus. It's not normally a thing.
Okay, I don't know if we would be able to find the wine menu. That was really difficult to find, to find this menu. But I would also get some, hopefully some organic dry wine, hopefully.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm sure that they would have a good selection in Argentina.
Melanie Avalon
Hokey dokey, now I'm hungry. Well, this was absolutely wonderful.
Listeners, friends, please submit your own questions for the show. We would love to hear from you. You can directly email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 465. They will have links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. Wait, right? Yes, it's been a while. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for tuning in again everyone. You're awesome and we'll catch you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week. Bye.
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week. you