Welcome to Episode 479 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 479 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 479 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today? I have to hear about, you know what?
Barry Conrad
You know what, Melanie, I'm doing so good. I'm just doing so amazing. And if you're referencing the half marathon, yes.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, the one I did not text you the day of, and I feel so-
Barry Conrad
It's so funny listeners like Melanie was like freaking out. I can't believe I forgot that like, but it's like, I don't expect you to know my schedule.
Melanie Avalon
but I wrote it in my calendar. But I just wrote it in the wrong place in my calendar, so I didn't see it.
Barry Conrad
these things happen. It's totally fine. I was not down about anything. I wasn't like wise and male messaged me.
Melanie Avalon
The whole world is not about me. Wishing you.
Barry Conrad
It's totally fine, but thank you so much for caring and for asking. And I'm very proud to say that I reckon I smashed it.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, the Brooklyn experience everyone in New York and it's my first marathon and I clocked in at one forty seven so that's my goal was one hour and forty six and I got one hour and forty seven so I'm happy with that I'm pretty happy with that.
Melanie Avalon
and was this the first time because I know when you and we talked about this but I know when you were prepping for it you were like running certain amounts did you had you run the full amount yet prior
Barry Conrad
No, so usually what happens and this is what I didn't know prepping for a half marathon is I thought exactly what you did like you like do the whole full noun so you're ready kind of thing that that was my guess but you meant to do a combination of long runs and then sprint training like interval training and then recovery runs and then the long runs really the longest you're supposed to do is like the longest study was like 19 k's so what is that in miles it's not the full amount of k's was 21.5 k's 22 k's so it's like I didn't go all the way to the end but I did I did quite a lot of it but you're not supposed to do that much you're going to do kind of a long run and then taper off because you need your body can't be too fatigued it's so much
Melanie Avalon
So it's kind of like, in theater, you don't do a full tech dress rehearsal everything, you do like a tech rehearsal. Like you don't do it, you don't like actually do the full thing prior.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, with theater, for example, like you obviously go full out in rehearsals, but when it comes to tech week, you're just standing there and doing sort of marking the song with the scene and then having the lighting be, you know, getting the lighting and sound right. But this is, I've never been more challenged ever.
Like this physically has been, it's been so challenging and also so rewarding, because, you know, for people who don't know, and I've probably have sound like a broken record. Back in 2017, I had a pulmonary embolism, which means a blood essentially hit my right lung and took off my right lung. You know, at the time, I couldn't speak without gasping for air, let alone run or perform or sing or act or anything. So I avoided running, avoided swimming, avoided anything pushing myself. So training for this really, over the last few months was like, way more personal than I expected it to be. It started as like, just this fun NYC thing to do, but because everyone here runs, but it quickly became something way bigger. And it was hard, but you know, especially sometimes fears can creep in, especially during the longer runs. But I have moments where I suddenly remember, you know, this is how far I've come. So not to be dramatic, but Brooklyn was buzzing and the energy was on 10 people were cheering everywhere, your body's dying and screaming. It's like, you're not going to make it. But you just do you find it, you find that strength. So I'm pretty proud.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's absolutely amazing. Did you know the whole time?
I know you just said that you're like, I'm not gonna make it, but I'm gonna make it. But did you ever have a moment where you were seriously thinking you might not make it? Or were you pretty sure you were gonna make it the whole time?
Barry Conrad
I felt really good because I had been training really consistently. Mel, as you know, I've been talking about training and stuff. So I felt good going into it.
But then on the day, it's like after six, even after six miles, I'm like, oh, man, this is actually it's actually pretty hard. It's like, am I going to finish this? It's really becomes mental game. But it shows what you can actually do. Human body is so resilient, so strong. So, yeah, you just find that you find it. Your body feels like lead, but you just go, go. Like you feel like you're exerting 100 percent, but you feel like you're moving like a centimeter at that point. So you just go. Yeah, so I'm I'm super proud.
Melanie Avalon
You should be. And I'm sure listeners, because we talked about it beforehand, what did you end up doing with like food and fasting and fueling? How did you fuel it?
Barry Conrad
This was interesting. So part way through my training, a few weeks out, I went for a morning run, just like a regular run. Actually, no, this was meant to be a longer run and literally maybe a minute into it. I felt just off like my legs felt like lead. It just didn't feel right.
I was going really slow. I tried to go for a long one and I just had to turn back and call it. And what I actually realized was I had not been feeling myself sufficiently. I'd been sticking to my eye protocol as per and eating the same volume of food, which normally is fine, but I actually just, I forgot. I forgot that to fuel myself, you know, fittingly. So after that happened, Mel, I started eating way more, like just eating almost double the amount of carbs a day, eating a lot more leading up. I actually did stretch my window from decrease moment from 20 to 18 hours for the final week leading up to the marathon, the half marathon, just to get even more food in. But what I did, didn't do was eat on the day. So I definitely just ate my normal evening and I just ran fasted.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, wow. Did you bring like a backup? Nope. You just committed.
Barry Conrad
I committed. Why you're running these marathons, these little stations of people with tables of water or electrolytes, you kind of grab that as you go without stopping sort of thing, like you're running and drinking. I didn't have a snack, I didn't have breakfast or anything like that.
I toyed with like, should I do it? I've never done it before, so why start and kind of, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, that's what I think we talked about this when we were talking about it. It's like if you are going to do that, you probably want to like test it first. Like if you're going to bring like a, you know, like a honey gel or something, you probably want to test, not guess.
Barry Conrad
Maybe if I, if I did a marathon, which I doubt I will, that's like double what I did that might call for like a situation, but I just didn't even think about it. To be honest, I didn't feel off at all.
I felt fine in the morning mornings are great for me. So.
Melanie Avalon
Well, congratulations. That is a huge, huge accomplishment.
Barry Conrad
Thanks so much. Honestly, I highly recommend not necessarily a half marathon, but just do hard things everyone because you can do it. Like you can push yourself beyond what you think you can do.
Melanie Avalon
How did you break your fast after the marathon?
Barry Conrad
Oh, well, so as soon as you rock up to the end, there's like a meeting area and they have all these bagels that they're giving out. So everyone's having like a bagel and like drinks and stuff like that.
I had like the bagel, which is fine, but after we got all changed and stuff, we went to like a, went to a pub and we had like burgers and everything. The whole world. It was awesome. Just went in.
Melanie Avalon
I bet you slapped really well that night.
Barry Conrad
I did. And I'd also could hardly move the next week. I took the week off gym the next week. I was just like, I'm not going to do anything.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, did you do recovery stuff like cold water or red light or?
Barry Conrad
I did a lot of like, I did a lot of cold stuff and then also just, just ate really well, you know, slept really well and took it easy. Cause it's a pretty traumatic thing to body through.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I learned this week, or I didn't learn it this week, but last week, I interviewed Dr. Tommy Wood. He has a book called The Stimulated Mind, all about the brain.
But one of the little fun facts I learned was that, at least in marathon runners, during the run, the body actually eats the brain's myelin sheath. What? Yeah. Because it needs that much fat, energy. Apparently, but like the amount of things that happen to your body during that intense intensity is a lot to recover from. A lot.
Barry Conrad
It is, but also, you know, have to give cuters to intermittent fasting, no injuries, no nothing. Even during training, like I'd no hiccups in any way.
I was like at the beginning, it was a little tense of like, am I going to get injured or something? Cause I've never done this before. Cause I'm not like 20. So, but no, nothing at all.
Melanie Avalon
Well, nicely done. Do you feel back to normal now?
Barry Conrad
Back to normal, a-okay.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations. That's so, so epic. I will not do that.
Barry Conrad
No, never say never or never.
Melanie Avalon
Never say never, I will not do that.
Barry Conrad
Is there something in the realm of possibility that you would do that you thought that you would never do that you might consider doing or not really like a stunt or like an adrenaline activity or anything like that?
Melanie Avalon
So something like now that I would always say never, but now I'm like, hmm, maybe. Thank you.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Maybe I'd jump out of an airplane, skydive, maybe. I could definitely be paid to do that. I couldn't be paid to do a half marathon or a marathon. I think that's the bar.
It's like, what could I be paid to do? The one thing you could never, ever, ever pay me to do, unless my phobia goes away, is even if I was completely safe, it's all fine, I can breathe, it's all good, be locked in a box, I just couldn't.
Barry Conrad
You claustrophobic? Yes. Same.
Melanie Avalon
I pause because there's like two types of claustrophobia. I'm the type that's like being constricted is what I can't handle. So I'm fine like in an elevator, I'm fine in small rooms, but it's when I can't get out.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I get that. That's pretty scary. Look, fear factor.
Melanie Avalon
Which it's interesting to think about because it's like, I'll pay you a million dollars to like get in this coffin and nothing's going to happen to you. You can breathe and then you can get out after like three hours, but you can't get out before then. I don't know if I could do it.
Really? Maybe, you know, I probably could if I figured out some sort of mind game that I could do in my head. Literally convince myself I'm not there, but yeah, yeah. Well, congratulations.
Barry Conrad
Thank you. What about you? It's a film of you known on all things Melanie Avalon.
Melanie Avalon
I just have a very brief announcement for listeners. So by the time this comes out, this should be official because we're working on it literally right now. But my Glow Coffee, you can now get subscriptions. We've been getting a lot of requests for that. So basically, it is a incredible way to get your coffee, don't have to think about it, and you get a discount for life and free shipping if it's three bags or more. So I just wanted to provide that to people.
So if you go to glowcoffeeco.com, you can get a subscription. And as a brief reminder of what it is, it is the perfect coffee for your fast because we source beans that were super high in antioxidants, which is where we get a lot of the benefits from coffee. And then it's, well, it tastes amazing. And on top of that, it's organic. It comes from an all female-led initiative. So go get a subscription now, oh, and you can pause or cancel at any time. So honestly, even if you're going to do a single purchase, just do a subscription because then you'll get a discount and then you can just cancel or pause. But I hope you don't cancel or pause, but you can cancel or pause is the point. So yes, I've just been like working on that.
Barry Conrad
That's so exciting. Congratulations.
And how great for all because because I actually have been seeing in the even in the Facebook group, people asking you about, I'm sure that I saw someone asking about subscription. So that's really exciting.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, we've been doing some reach out to some of the customers and be like, what do you think? And what's your feedback and all the things? And everybody loves it. So that's good.
We haven't gotten any negative feedback, but people have been asking about subscriptions. So yes, yes, yes. Next week, I'm going to tease another beverage-related venture that I may be going on. So stay tuned.
I can't wait to hear. It's very fresh though. All this stuff is very fresh.
Barry Conrad
I love how you, you're just happy. You just like tease things like you just put it out, put it onto the universe. You know what I mean? You're not precious about it. I love that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I've thought about it before because some people don't like, which I understand, but they don't like jinxing. They don't like saying it before it's happening. But I'm like, you know what? I'll just say all the things. And if it doesn't happen, I highly doubt people are going to... I'll remember it more than other people, I think.
I agree. Okay. Shall we jump into some studies and fasting stuff and all the things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Do you have a study to start us out with?
Barry Conrad
I do. So the study I'm bringing today is called computational identification of ketone metabolism and as a key regulator of sleep stability and circadian dynamics via real-time metabolic profiling.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, okay, can I pause you?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Literally, that's like, that felt, so like listening to you read that felt like being led down a path and just having literally no idea where you're going. Like every word you said, I was like, oh, now this direction, oh, now like, like computation, I'm like math.
And then it's like ketones, okay, ketone, sleep, like, just like, where are we?
Barry Conrad
No, that's what I thought as well when I first read the study, but it's a mouthful, but I got sucked in, so I had to bring this one today. It's something very different. I'm going to send you the link so you can see where I've led you to. Here we go. So, this study was by Hao Wang, Keijing Shou, and Michael Lutterley. And before I get into the nitty-gritty of it, everyone, important disclaimer here is it wasn't a human clinical trial. This was primarily a lab study using fruit flies. I don't know if that's a first for the podcast. Okay, go with me here. Follow me here. It sounds a little wild, a little crazy initially, but fruit flies, I actually used a lot in sleep and circadian rhythm research because scientists can study their biological clocks really precisely. So, the reason I thought it was really interesting for us here on our podcast is because it directly looked at ketones, fasting, circadian rhythm, and sleep stability altogether, which is a massive thing in the fasting world right now.
We talk so much about sleep and circadian rhythms on the show. And for people who may not know, that basically means your body's internal clock. So, it's the system that regulates when you naturally wake up and you feel sleepy. For me, that's, you know, I wake up really early naturally. Melanie likes to wake up later, like we all have different sort of cycles. So, it's when you feel awake, sleepy, hungry, energetic across 24 hours. And the more and more people are experimenting now with even sinking their or trying to line up their fasting, even their protocols to that clock. So, eating early in the day, avoiding late night meals, for example, extending overnight fasts and whatnot, just trying to see what mode you can find that's going to work best for you. So, this study is why, that is exactly why I was attracted to the study because it gives a deeper metabolic level look into everything. So, the researchers wanted to understand whether ketones could actually influence not just how long something sleeps, but how stable and organized the sleep wake cycle actually is, which gets good. So, ketones are molecules your body naturally produces when you haven't eaten for a while. So, during IF, during fasting, our bodies sort of gradually shift away from relying mainly on glucose and they start producing ketones from stored fat for energy. And one of the main key terms is called bitter hydroxybutrate or BHB. And that was one of the compounds used in this study. And the researchers used genetically modified fruit flies. Yes, I said it. The researchers used genetically modified fruit flies, including some designed to mimic Alzheimer's related sleep disruption. And they then increased ketone activity in two ways. One way, by giving BHB directly and the second way through intermittent fasting. And this study, in this study, intermittent fasting meant the flies fasted three times weekly for roughly 16 to 24 hours. What they found was so interesting because the ketone related changes didn't simply make the fly sleep a whole lot longer. They actually seemed to improve the transitions between being awake and being asleep.
Barry Conrad
So, around, especially around nighttime and waking periods. So, for everyday people out there listening to our show, think about those nights like your sleep feels really messy, it feels broken up, fragmented, and you keep waking up, right? So, you can't properly settle or feel, you feel really alert and wired at night.
The researchers are basically suggesting metabolism ketones might play like a role in how stable those sleep transitions are. So, they found that IF and BHB improved sleep consolidation in Alzheimer's bottle flies. What does sleep consolidation mean? It means sleep becomes more continuous and less broken up so instead of so think instead of lots of interrupted little wake-ups during the night sleep becomes really deep a lot more stable overall and the circadian rhythm patterns also become more organized so that's part of that consolidation and one of the more interesting things about this was that the ketone activity was was the strongest during the transition into nighttime sleep so this sort of lines up with what we talk about a lot with fasting and circadian rhythm alignment there's a lot of interest out there in weather eating late at night for example might interfere with you know your metabolism your metabolic signals and eating earlier you know eating during early winters and longer overnight fasting periods might support them so obviously the study doesn't prove intermittent fasting cures insomnia or Alzheimer's but it and I mean it does not show that because it wasn't a human trial but I still think it's super interesting because it sort of reinforces that idea that like metabolism and ketones and meal timing and your body clock they're all connected so to be honest it's anecdotally you know it lines up with what a lot of people report when they fast consistently more stable energy less late night hunger more consistent sleep timing easier wake-ups in the morning so I reckon yeah practical thing is not everyone needs to suddenly obsess now over ketones it's more that when we talk about if we're probably talking a lot more than just weight loss about a lot more than just weight loss we also might be influencing deeper biological systems tied to sleep quality energy regulation and circadian rhythm so Mel what do you what do you think about this study
Melanie Avalon
Wow. Okay. So, so question you said, did they, so they both looked at intermittent fasting in the flies and they also looked at giving them exogenous ketones as well.
Barry Conrad
So when they used the flies, they included some design to mimic the Alzheimer's, and then they increased ketone activity for both of them, giving BHB directly to the animals through IF. You're right.
Melanie Avalon
So did they like do it together or did they look at fasting versus giving BHB?
Barry Conrad
I think they did it together from what I can understand from the study.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, yeah, because I would be so curious. I'd be curious like if they got the effects just from fasting, like was fasting enough? Or did they have to have supplemental BHB? Oh, I see. Yeah, BHB and IF. Yeah. Yeah. The reason I'm so fascinated by it is because I would love to know if fasting alone was enough to create the effects or if they had to add it in.
But I've become so intrigued by the exogenous ketones ever since interviewing the founder of Hard Ketones a few weeks ago. And one of the things he was talking about was using those for sleep specifically, like for this reason. Well, basically just to support the brain in general, but also to support sleep. And yeah, I really like how you're saying that they found that it helped with the transition and not being as fragmented.
Barry Conrad
And I never actually, I never even considered, I didn't know that about fruit flies, that they are used a lot because, you know, that their biological clocks can be studied so well. I didn't know that at all.
So when I first saw this, I kind of first skipped over and I was like, hold on, let me keep reading. And I was like, wow, this is really, really interesting.
Melanie Avalon
that they're good to study for circadian rhythm. Yeah, that is, that's like really interesting.
Well, I definitely know for me that, well, my personal fasting pattern is a game changer for me for sleeping, but the irony about it, I find it really interesting that I think some people sleep better in a fasted state or like on an empty stomach and some people sleep better like in a fed state. Like for me, I need to be in a fed state unless I'm taking a nap during the day. Cause the fasting is so, it like, it makes me too alert to sleep.
Barry Conrad
Cause how long after you, like generally how long after you finish eating, do you KO like, do you, do you go to sleep?
Melanie Avalon
I literally go to sleep right after. And what's funny, sorry, there's no transition time. Like I don't sit around not eating. I literally eat and go to bed.
Barry Conrad
That's so interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And it's interesting because growing up, one of the things I most disliked daily or nightly was like finishing dinner and then now I can't really eat again until tomorrow. And like the waiting period, like basically I'm very happy to always like just eat right up until bed.
But I didn't do that growing up because I was also eating. I mean, I probably did. That's where like dessert comes in. So like you eat breakfast and then I'm just like eating ice cream, like sneaking ice cream the rest of the night.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but also I think that's it's so interesting because a lot of people say, well, you know, need to make sure you eat so many hours before you go to sleep. It's just so many rules that are blanket statements passed around and people subscribe to that, but everyone's so different.
Melanie Avalon
It is so true. And I think people more and more are coming to realize that people have unique circadian rhythms. What's interesting, the only people who I think have adamantly told me, you could be a morning person if you just tried hard enough. It's always the morning people who say that.
I'm serious. Because people have told me that. And it's always a morning person who says that. I have never met somebody who was like a night person and then did that and became a morning person and told me that. I have not had that experience. I'm sure they're out there, but I have not met them.
Barry Conrad
Okay, well, you know that I'm a morning guy. Well, Mel, have I convinced you to try to be a morning person? No.
Melanie Avalon
Have you tried to? No, no, no, Barry, it's not one of these.
Barry Conrad
You got to do what works for you. I can stay up late, but I know I'm just more effective. It depends what I'm doing as well.
Actually, another question. If you're out, for example, and you're eating a late dinner or drinks and stuff, is it weird if you're out because you might finish eating but you're still out and you're not at home and able to go to sleep straight away? How do you feel in that moment? How does that feel?
Melanie Avalon
I have no interest in, I think we've talked about this, I would not get like an early dinner and then do something social. So like if I ate, I would not want to go out dancing or go to a show or go to a bar after because I'm like in food mode.
So normally when I eat, it's like dinner and then I come home and then I don't normally eat again at home, but I just feel kind of, I just feel sluggish and I don't really want to be like doing like a lot of physical stuff right after eating.
Barry Conrad
Same. I mean, I don't, I don't eat as late, but I definitely am like eating pretty close to at least maybe a couple hours before I go to sleep. Look, it's not that long.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like a lot of people will get like dinner and a show. So they'll go to dinner and then they'll see a show. I just I can't I would I can go to dinner, but I wouldn't eat anything.
Barry Conrad
I'd fall asleep, like I'd feel sluggish and like not awake to focus, you know, maybe drinks.
Melanie Avalon
So I would like to do like a show and then dinner I could do that order
Barry Conrad
That's so funny.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, if I could change this about myself, I would.
Barry Conrad
We talked about this, listen, we talked about when we finally do meet up and hang out, what the schedule is going to be, it's like, no, well, I can't do that very, I have to, I can't do dinner first, I have to do dinner after, like we can't do dinner that night, how about we just go out? I'm like, what?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, you can do whatever you want. I'm just presenting what I will do. So hopefully there's like overlap in something we both want to do.
Barry Conrad
It'll be fine.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh my goodness. Well, awesome study. Yay, fruit flies. I was actually reading an article this week about eight ways to make your at home fruit fly trap.
Barry Conrad
Really? Mm-hmm. Do you have a lot? Is it? Is that a thing in ATL? There's a lot of fruit flies there.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I guess I don't have them, but I guess.
Barry Conrad
Did you get a trap going just in case?
Melanie Avalon
No. If a fruit fly makes its way in, then maybe I will. But we're good for now.
Okay, shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. We have a question from Amy. And the subject is sugar cravings and binging while on IF. And Amy says, Love your podcasts and look forward to them each week. Thank you for all the hard work and research for us IF'ers. I have a question I have not been able to find answered in other places and could use your insights. I've been enjoying an IF lifestyle for almost four months now, starting in July 2018 and using 16.8. I had about six to eight pounds to lose, which I did, and I'm now at my goal size. On 16.8, I open my window at 12.30 with lunch and close it after dinner by 8pm. And following Dr. Fung's instructions, I do not snack in between. For example, I walk for an hour a day plus strength train three days per week for an hour each. I love carbs but do track my calories daily with a maintenance goal of about 13.70 net of exercise. According to the calculators online and my own experience, this is a good number for me for my size. Over the past four to six weeks, I find myself getting into what I can only term as binge eating about once a week, with the cravings being for sugary junk, particularly anything that has vanilla frosting. Whether from a vending machine, bakery, or off the store shelf, Melanie's Fonfetti would be just right. I have no history of eating disorders in the past and it is a little scary. My net calories on the other days are in the 1100 range, so I have a feeling that it's my body's way of telling me I need to get that 13.70. Over the full week, my total intake averages out to the 13.70 daily number and any temporary weight gain from the extra intake resolves itself within a couple of days, but I am concerned about the pattern. I've read that sugar cravings are normal when starting IF, but I am well past that stage now. Is this a thing and if so, what does it indicate and also what is the best way to address it? IF has been hugely beneficial to me and it's a workable lifestyle, but in my zeal, I feel like I'm becoming a little bit obsessed or too obsessed with food. Any thoughts? Thank you so much for any input you may have. All right, so that is Amy's question. Barry, what do you think?
Barry Conrad
Amy, thank you so much for the question. I really, really appreciate how self-aware you are about this as well. It tells me that before you freak out that you're in a really good place, even if it doesn't feel like it right now. You're obviously, from what you're saying, observing patterns in your eating. and you're training and you're thinking about it and asking questions before things get too crazy.
So, I did have to laugh at the inch thing, that's hilarious. The half inch. I don't think that there's anything wrong here. I don't think what you're experiencing is really particularly unusual, Amy. I think it makes a lot of sense actually physiologically and psychologically. I will say the fast is important, but like we always say on the show, the feeding part is very important as well and making sure we're eating enough is really important. You've lost the weight you wanted to lose and it sounds like you're really disciplined. You're training. That is a lot. You're giving me a run for my money, an hour walk a day, three times a week and then also training, weight training three times a week. You're very disciplined. You're exercising consistently, tracking those cows carefully and once a week getting those cravings, the sugary vanilla frosting situation and it feels probably like it's staging this massive rebellion on you, but it sounds less like a loss of control and probably more like your body's trying to get enough food and rebalance. One thing that stood out off the bat here is your maintenance target is 1370, so 1370 calories net. But on most days, you're actually only like closer to 1100 and then once a week, there's the bigger intake that essentially brings that average back up. That is a clue here, Amy. It's a decent amount of because a decent amount of research shows that when our energy intake stays consistently lower than what our body needs or perceives it needs, especially when you're leaner and slighter and more of a little like a small individual anyway and you're also exercising so much, hunger signaling can't really ramp up over time. So the body doesn't just look at one day, for example. So it looks at patterns, hormones like ghrelin, leptin, dopamine responses, things like that, like foods that are like highly palatable, all of that can really shift when our body and our system senses under fueling and sugary foods, they tend to become that easy target because they're just quick. You know, you're going to feel that instant burst of energy. It's going to taste really, your body's not sitting there craving steam broccoli after vanilla frosting is on top, you know, once that instant fuel. So first, I want to normalize it because when I first started as well, there was a period as well where under fueled as well, you have to find that balance. So what you're describing, it doesn't immediately sound like this binge eating disorder, you know, at all.
Barry Conrad
It just more sounds like a very regulated discipline person whose body occasionally pushes back when intake gets a bit too tight, I reckon for too long. So I reckon one of the biggest hints is that weight gain results quickly and your weekly intake averages out right around maintenance. That's what that's a good sign. And your body may actually be doing a fairly intelligent compensation mechanism there.
So could intermittent fasting be contributing towards that? Maybe, but I don't think fasting itself is the problem here. I think the bigger thing, the big issue, if you will, it might be the combination, the really strict combination of the fasting, the intense calorie tracking, the maintaining really lean body weight, exercising regularly for a decent amount of time, and then mentally tightening the reins a bit too hard. You said something there at the end, what did you say? You're like, I feel like I'm becoming a little too obsessed with food. So that's the part I'd pay attention to as well because the goal of our fasting is not to make our food occupy more mental space.
Over time, it actually creates more freedom and more peace. So if you do notice yourself white knuckling through the week and then diving into the vanilla frosty waves, that's feedback worth listening to. I even wonder if maybe your body might respond well to a bit more nourishment during the week instead of the pendulum of swing. So maybe slightly increasing your daily intake a little, like even more protein. Get more satiated, more healthy carbs that could reduce that intensity of the cravings. And I reckon also some flexibility around how you're thinking as well, like sometimes when food becomes that mentally, like not allowed, like it's bad, quote unquote, bad, they can also gain that power. So if the vanilla frosting suddenly becomes this mythical object, your brain fixates on it, like it's going to be harder to turn away from it. Whereas if there's a little bit more permission. I can have it if I want to, but I don't want to, you know, it's just the power sort of like the allure, it's not as alluring. So I think as well, Amy, for women around your age, hormonal shifts can also influence appetite regulation, cravings, and your energy signaling.
So your body becomes a little less tolerant of aggressive restriction. The good news is, you know, your message just doesn't sound worrying at all. Like I said, it sounds like your body just needs more fuel and it sounds like your body is communicating really clearly to you. And one of the best things fasting teaches us is how to actually hear those signals instead of finding them. I don't think you need to abandon fasting. I don't think you need to panic. I definitely don't think you should shame yourself for craving funfitty, frosting. I just think your body might be asking for more balance and more nourishment. But Mel, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
That was overwhelmingly amazing and comprehensive and incredible. Yeah, you said essentially everything I was going to say as well.
Basically, I'll throw in one little thing, especially since Amy, you're a fan of Dr. Fong. So he has a new book that came out. I'm actually going to interview him in less than two weeks for it. Well, by the time this episode airs, I don't think it'll be out yet. My episode, the book is called The Hunger Code, Resetting Your Body's Fat Thermostat and the Age of Ultra Processed Food. And the huge takeaway and the reason I'm just thinking about a lot, especially with your question, is he is really, really intense about calories not being an accurate way of looking at things as far as how our body interacts with food. So it doesn't think in terms of calories. It thinks in terms of nutrients and hormonal signaling. And so we can think like, okay, I'm going to calculate this exact amount of calories that my body needs. And one, we just have no way of knowing what that is because there are so many other factors that affect the amount of quote, calories we need. We can't just base it based on our body weight and our activity levels because we don't actually know how many calories are burning when we do activity. It's all like, it's all guesstimations. We don't know how much our body is adjusting to what we're eating. So it can down-regulate the calories it burns or up-regulate the calories it burns, which throws the whole equation out the window. We don't know how much we're personally extracting calories-wise from food because based on our gut microbiome or our digestion, that can all be different. So my point of it all is that it could seem like you're getting quote enough calories, but you just might not be. And it sounds like you're not. It sounds like with the, and like Barry was saying, with the slight mild restriction for the majority of the days and then this one quote binge day, the binge makes up for that deficit because the body, your body is needing more on an ongoing basis, which it's not getting. And so then it's creating this insane drive, which leads to this binge-like behavior. And then the cycle just starts over. And like Barry was saying, it makes sense that you crave sweets because they are the most like immediate form of energy. So glucose and sucrose and all the sugars, fructose, they're very quick for the body to process and get energy from. So that's why we crave all the sugars. That's probably one reason. And then the other reason would be like, you know, emotional connection. So for me, like Fonfetti, I don't know, it's just like my favorite thing from childhood. But I agree with everything Barry said. I would focus on, I would either let go of the calorie idea completely, or if you want to keep it in because it makes you feel safe, definitely up it. And get more food, more nutrition, more calories during those days when you're eating less. And focus on really nourishing foods, you know, protein, fat, high fiber. I bet if you do that, things will resolve because your body's just asking for more.
Melanie Avalon
And I agree with Barry too that, you know, you're saying that you don't have a history of eating disorders. It doesn't sound like disordered eating.
It sounds like your body is literally compensating for not eating enough normally. So check out Jason Fung's book, The Hunger Code. I want to read that book. If you want to really convince somebody of, how do I say this in a really nice way? He says the same concept over and over and over. It really gets it into your head about the calories. So I'm excited to interview him about it.
Barry Conrad
That's so awesome. And thank you so much for your question. Keep us posted.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, thank you, Amy. Also, she said she's from Tennessee. That's where I'm from. So shout out.
Did I know that? I mean, I was born here in Atlanta, but I, my defining years were there. There you go. So, okay. Would you like to read the question from Lorena?
Barry Conrad
Yes. So now I have a question from Lorena and she says, I see contradictory info on cooling starch to make resistant. Some say after being refrigerated, you can heat it back up before eating it. But others say you need to eat it cold if your goal is for it to be resistant. So for instance, eat your potatoes as potato salad, not as baked potatoes, etc.
Melanie Avalon
So you know what's really wild about this? I did not plan this.
I had this question in the lineup for a bit, and then I was reading... I didn't plan this and then I didn't know I was going to talk twice about Jason Fung's book. But I was reading his book, The Hunger Code, and he has a whole section on Resistant Starch. And he literally said it was the nuances of this question. Like he was saying that with rice, you could... Oh, and should I backtrack and I will tell you what Resistant Starch is for listeners that are not familiar. But he was saying for rice, you could heat it and then cool it to create the Resistant Starch. And then if you heat it back up, it would still have Resistant Starch. But he was saying with potatoes, if you heat it and then cool it and then reheat it, that you lose the Resistant Starch. So potatoes always need to be cold. So I went down the rabbit hole, and it's actually not that simple. And I can totally see, Lorena, why you see contradictory info because I as well, I found so many different things. But really briefly, what Resistant Starch is, it's a type of starch to like interlocked glucose molecules that forms when you take starches like rice, pasta, potatoes, heat them up, and then cool it, it creates a matrix that we can no longer digest, but our gut bacteria can. So the results of that are a few different things. One, you get, quote, less calories. Speaking of calories, actually that speaks to the last question. You get less calories from it because you actually can't break it down anymore. So that's an example of how calories are not calories because heated and cooled rice could be different than fresh rice. Number two, by feeding the microbiome, it helps them create short-chain fatty acids, including, we talked earlier about beta-hydroxybutyrate. So that's produced in the liver, like during fasting and all the things. There's also butyrate, which is a short-chain fatty acid produced in the gut, and it helps fuel our colon cells. It has a lot of beneficial signaling in the body. So it can be really helpful for people to integrate Resistant Starch to support their gut microbiome, their inflammation, their energy levels, all the things. That's why people like Resistant Starch. So I went down the rabbit hole and it looks like it does vary by different types of starches. And again, so the way you create this is you take a starch like pasta or potatoes or rice, you heat it up, then you cool it. And when it's in the cooled state, we got Resistant Starch. If you heat it back up, that's where it gets little, we're not really sure how much Resistant Starch is left. It looks like rice does tend to maintain more of the Resistant Starch if it's reheated as is pasta. Potatoes, again, in Jason's book, he said that they lose all of it. So it looks like some studies have found that some types of potatoes do lose almost all the Resistant Starches, but others don't. So one study found that in boiled white potatoes, when you reheated it, it kind of lost all the Resistant Starch, but red and yellow potatoes retain more.
Melanie Avalon
The pasta seems to create a type of Resistant Starch that does seem to be more resilient. And so if you heat it back up, it might maintain more of it. I just think if you want to get the most Resistant Starch, just eat it cold if you can.
And if you're heating it back up, probably stick with rice or pasta and gently heat it up. So don't really, I don't know, I don't know what would be like. Maybe don't refry the rice or anything, just have warmed up a little bit. But basically, studies say all different things, but if you want to be sure that you're getting the Resistant Starch, eat it cold. There's also a possibility, especially with rice, that if you reheat it and then let it get cold again, you might actually create even more Resistant Starch.
But I'm done. Barry, thoughts?
Barry Conrad
Well, Mel, Melanie, I think that you answered this question perfectly, especially with, you know, Jason Fung's new book and everything as well. I just think this is not planned.
I just had roasted Yukon gold potatoes and steak before this podcast. So it was very hot. It was very, very hot, crispy, delicious. But I guess I never really thought about that, you know, and it's one of those nutritional rabbit holes where people start acting like, you know, a reed of potatoes is going to destroy your entire metabolic health or whatnot. But I'm glad Mel broke down the science to add a bit of context there. And it's really fascinating that if it's rice, it's one thing, if it's potatoes, it's another thing, if it's pasta, it's another thing. If you heat it, cool it, heat it again. And I didn't know that, Mel, that you take in less calories because we can't break that down after it's been, can you repeat that again? So you, if you heat up pasta, cool it and then try to heat it back up again, you don't take in as much.
Melanie Avalon
Well, you want to pause at the cold.
Barry Conrad
pause there.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because we're uncertain how much remains when you heat it back up again. But basically, yeah, it takes some of those glucose molecules and it forms them into a matrix that we can no longer break down. So it literally locks up calories, but your gut, but your microbiome can break them down.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, for me, personally, all I really have to add is eating, eating mostly whole foods consistently matters more than whether it's not going to be dire if you know something's cold or hot. I think it's the bigger picture, but I think it's important to know what is going to be sustainable for you and it's going to work best for your body.
And if, you know, if you're stressing over resistance touch percentages or actually enjoying the meal or if you have got issues, it's all dependent on that as well. But Melanie, you answered that really, really amazingly.
Melanie Avalon
So next time you make that meal, Barry, you could let the potatoes cool down. So it's a cold cold. Yeah. Like potato salad.
Barry Conrad
I do love potato salad so much and also like, like a roast dinner or like a roast lunch is such a steeped in my memory as a kid and just, it's just, have you tried, have you had roast potatoes, roasted potatoes, crispy roasted potatoes?
Melanie Avalon
They're my least favorite manifestation of potatoes. Really?
Well, I guess I have to think through all different manifestations, but yeah, I'm not, I, like, I used to love like baked potatoes, mashed potatoes, potatoes, old gratin, scalloped potatoes, basically all the potatoes, but roasted, not as much.
Barry Conrad
And white rice, like I love white rice so much and I can't imagine having, I mean, yeah, I can imagine having a cold with, I guess with sushi, that would be that, but it's so good with like a curry or something, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah. And I will say, I do think there's a lot of like potential benefits for the resistant starches.
So I'm getting really intrigued by the short-chain fatty acid production from our gut microbiome. So it's definitely a good thing to try if people want to try it, but just know that if you cool it down and heat it back up again, hard to know how much is left.
Barry Conrad
So heat it up, cool it down, and then see how you go. See how you feel and how, yeah, okay.
Melanie Avalon
Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast?
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, I can't wait. I'm so ready.
Melanie Avalon
So the purpose of this part of the show is, like we've been saying all episode, what you eat, the breaking of the fast, the eating part is very, very important. It's arguably just as important as the fasting.
So every week we like to pick a restaurant to profile and talk about what we would order at said restaurant while breaking our fast. And Barry, I'm so excited about the one I have today. So the backstory on this is, I think, let me see when this restaurant was founded. Hold on.
Barry Conrad
I'm curious, like if it's a Disney restaurant, if it's a scary restaurant, if it's a...
Melanie Avalon
It is not any of that.
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow.
Melanie Avalon
I know. Okay, okay, this tracks this makes sense. I was like, I feel like this restaurant was founded like right after I went to college because I think I would have loved it. Because this restaurant is where I grew up in Memphis. And look, I just checked when it was founded and it was founded the year the year after I left for college is when it opened. So I never went to it.
And I have wanted to for the longest time. So I need to go really bad. It's called flight. But so here's what makes it special. Are you ready? So the concept of it is that you get everything in flights. So I mean, you don't have to. So you'll see when we look at the menu, but they'll have a section and you can order it all you can order anything a la carte. Not only can you order it all a carte you order you can order in different sizes. So if you just want to try like a small bit of an entree, you can get a smaller size of it and then you can get like something else. Or you can order the flights where they bring like three out of the same thing. Not the same thing, but you'll see when we look at the menu. It's literally like everything I could want.
Barry Conrad
Cause you like to try a little bit of everything, right? Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Do you see the menu?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm pulling up the menu, going to the one with appetizers and all that, that's the one.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. So, okay, the appetizers are not flights really yet, but we can still look at them. And they use the correct terminology, appetizers. Oh, and they also do wine flights, obviously. They have a big wine selection as well. I want to go here so bad.
If I ever go back to Memphis, I'm going to eat here. So do you see any appetizers? Oh, and it's downtown in Memphis, by the way. Do you see any appetizers that you like?
Barry Conrad
You know, I've got to go to the ocean flight.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they have one flight on the appetizers.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, the ocean flight. I'm going to catch an ocean flight. That's New Orleans barbecue shrimp jumbo lump crab cake lobster ravioli. And I can't get past oysters. Gotta do some oysters.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Do you want to read about the oysters or are you going to are you going to get the because there's two oysters?
Barry Conrad
Oh yeah. Oh man. Okay. I'm going to do the fresh oysters on the half shell. Special tea oysters, mignonette, cocktail sauce.
But also, Melanie, I see below that a charcuterie plate. How am I going to not have that as well?
I wonder how big these are.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't know.
Barry Conrad
You know i'm gonna i'm gonna stop their fresh horses in the house shell and the ocean flight that's for me from the appetizers.
Melanie Avalon
Perfect. I'm gonna get the Snake River Farms Wagyu Carpaccio with arugula, Shea Parmesan, capers, olive oil, but all of that on the side, please.
Barry Conrad
Yum. That's very you.
Melanie Avalon
And then salad and soup. Here's where we're starting to enter flight world.
So like, here's the example. Like you can order an individual salad or you can get a flight of salad where they bring this, they bring like a little bit of each one. And then there's just a flight of soup where you can get an individual soup or you can get a little bit of each one.
Barry Conrad
You know what? Melanie, I would do the flight of soup because I prefer the soup to the salad situation.
Melanie Avalon
so you would get the lobster bisque soup of the day and seafood gumbo.
Barry Conrad
I would. This is such a good idea by the way, it's so unusual.
Melanie Avalon
I know. I wish every restaurant was like this.
Barry Conrad
I also wonder how big every, I wonder how big the flights are, you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
I was looking on Yelp and it looked like, I'm seeing if there are pictures on the actual website, you can look on like the main page of the website, but yeah, it looked kind of like, like, I think it depends on what it is. Bigger than an appetizer, but not entree size.
Barry Conrad
Are you going to have anything from the salad and soup?
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm saving it all for the entrees and okay. So friends, so to give you the setup, they have seafood with three options. And like I said, for each of the options, you can get a small plate, an entree, or the flight.
So they have a seafood section with three, a butcher's section with three, a steak section with three, a farm and field section with three, and a fish section with three. Oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, it's so good.
Melanie Avalon
What are you, and I'm checking like prices wise, it's like, Ooh, could you mix and match? But it looks like if you go the route of getting the smaller, depending on what you get, basically, it might be cheaper to get like the pre-selected three together is my point.
But what would you get?
Barry Conrad
This looks really good. Oh man, this is hard. Oh, cause remind me. So this is in Memphis.
Melanie Avalon
Like this, mhm.
Barry Conrad
So I reckon I'm going to have to do two.
Melanie Avalon
Two flights.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, the water tarts like the seafood one, which is the shrimp and grits lobster crab benedict, and the shrimp and grits is mushrooms, applewood, smoked bacon, falls, milk cheese, grits, lobster and crab benedict is jumbo lump crab, main lobster poached egg, bacon, hollandaise, house-made cheddar biscuit, and the diver's sea scallop is potato gnocchi, lobster cream, and then I have to get the big bad cab. Which is the steak one, which is borson stuffed fillet, potato puree, red wine, baudelaire, and elk tenderloin, which sounds amazing.
That's truffle white cheddar macaroni, mushrooms, kalua glaze, and bison rib eye, potato gratin, cabernet syrup. Melanie, this looks amazing.
Melanie Avalon
Isn't it so cool?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
So I think this is like so hard. I think I would I would also get the steak flight, the big bad cab, but I might see if they could, since it's only a dollar off, again, I don't know how they do with substitutions, I might see if instead of the bores and stuff filet, could they swap it out for the wild boar tenderloin? Because I love the idea of trying boar, which comes with loaded mashed potatoes and wild berry compote. But yeah, so basically, ideally, I would get like wild boar tenderloin, elk tenderloin, and bison, oh, wait, bison ribeye. Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, all of that. But like completely plain and rare. And I don't need any of the sides. I can just get some like steamed spinach. I'm surprised you didn't get the diamond head ranch quail.
Barry Conrad
You know what, I'm actually really upset because there's also chicken and waffles. There's just too many things that I like. So I can't have everything. So I had to choose.
We'll just have to go to come back the second night and then do the two other ones. I'll do like the farm and field and the butchers.
Melanie Avalon
Well, and the perfect thing is, then there's also, like I said, you can get a small plate of things. So like if you really liked one thing, you could just order like another small plate of it.
So like for dessert, I would probably get a small plate of something I hadn't tried, like maybe the flounder or the quail. I think I'll get the quail for dessert.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, I'm looking at the dessert right now and I'm in heaven already reading it.
Melanie Avalon
So the dessert is also flights. What do you think you would get?
Barry Conrad
Oh, man. Oh, I have to get two flights, so the chocolate flight, which is, you know, lava cake, peppermint gelato, the peanut shop brownie, which is traditional brownie, the peanut shop in quotation marks, roasted peanuts, butterscotch caramel, salted caramel gelato, and chocolate chip cookie cake, yum, dark chocolate sauce.
And then the traditional dessert flight is the creme brulee key lime pie, which I love pecan. You say pecan, right? It's pecan, graham crack crust, and pecan crust, the cheesecake, which is French berries. There we go.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I would get, like I said, something else from the menu, probably the quail, something lighter.
So like chicken, well, quail is not chicken. So like poultry or one of the fish, like the flounder. And so if we look at, let's see if they have, do they have their wine menu online? Wine list. Yes. Okay. So they have all these, they have flights for the wine as well.
Barry Conrad
This is a really good idea, seriously, it really is. Because you can also, because it's not like all set, you know, like a lot of set menus are like that set, but you can actually, like you said, choose like a little something from the individual things, if you like it, a smaller one.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, looking at the wine list, I know almost every single one of these wines, unfortunately.
Barry Conrad
What's your favorite if you had to?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, they have, they have a ton of wines though, which is really cool. I shouldn't, I'm not, I'm not putting them down.
Okay. Now we're getting to Europe. Sorry. The first page was a lot of, Oh, it was white wine. This may be the most familiar I have felt with a wine list before.
Barry Conrad
Wow, that's a big call.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, they have derriouche. That's my parents' favorite winery. Whoa. Well, we have got to go here. They would be so happy.
Okay. European. I would have to look up the European wines. I think what I'm going to have to go, even though I really want to do the flights, I think I might have to go by the bottle. They have a ton of wine, so I'd have to find a European one that I like the look of.
Barry Conrad
How big is this restaurant? There's a lot of options.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, and they have silver oak. They have all my family's favorite wineries. They have Duck Horn, Stag's Leap, Silver Oak. My parents would die.
I wonder if they have, wait, that would be wild. Let me check. They have Chimney Rock. That's like a boutique winery and Napa that my parents are obsessed with. This is crazy. I'm going to, after that, tonight I'm going to send this menu to my parents and be like, have you been here?
Barry Conrad
Chimney Rock, yeah, well, I see it now.
Melanie Avalon
So my first really quick memory for my 21st birthday, my parents took me to Napa to go wine tasting and stock me up on wine. And the first winery we went to was Chimney Rock and we did a tasting of Cabernet's from like five different years and I picked out my favorite year.
It was 2012. No, wait, that's not possible because I turned 2008, it was 2008 and I took that bottle home and it was very special. So that's my story.
Barry Conrad
My mouth's actually watering, looking at all this wine, because you're getting excited and it's making me excited that you're excited, because you never get this excited about a wine list.
Melanie Avalon
Well, the funny thing is, it's not really many wines I would drink, but it's all wines that are like, that my family loves so much.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, so you can forego a flight, but you're sure you can probably find a bottle or two that you'd probably like, right?
Melanie Avalon
I can definitely find a European one on here. Oh, wait, is the bottle list all the US?
Hold on. Oh, no. Here's some other ones. Okay. I could find something, hopefully. But yeah, do you see a cocktail?
Barry Conrad
Do you know what? I would actually pick their brain and I don't normally do this.
I would probably pick their brain and get them to suggest two bottles, one red and one white, and just to have that, because we're having a combination of seafood and meat and just sip on that.
Melanie Avalon
sounds good. I feel like it's the place to do it.
I literally have one of these bottles in my cabinet right now. Which one? The Duckhorn Paradox. Is it good? I don't know. I haven't tried it. So this thing happens where people will give me really nice bottles of wine, but they're not actually a wine I would drink because of like the high alcohol content and everything. So they kind of just sit there and then I either re-gift them or sometimes they just sit there. But sometimes it's like so nostalgic because of who gave it to me. So then it just sits there. Like my Duckhorn Paradox.
Barry Conrad
Do you have a, I know that you sent me a photo of this before, but do you have a big wine like storage situation?
Melanie Avalon
It's like a cool little table where the thing holding up the table, the you store the bottles underneath it.
Barry Conrad
Okay, cool. So you got heaps of room
Melanie Avalon
And I got it on Amazon and it's like the most amazing thing ever. I highly recommend it, friends.
Barry Conrad
Actually, we probably need that.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, you it's great because it holds. Let me let me let me see how many it holds. Holds 30 bottles. That's pretty good.
And it like puts them all in like a really and then on top of it, you can make it your little like, you know, it's like on top of it. I have like some bottles of liquor that people have given me that I don't drink. But I have like wine related stuff on top of it. It's like my little bar section.
Barry Conrad
I might need like another photo or like a rack of where you got that so I can maybe.
Melanie Avalon
I'll send you a link and we can put it, wait, let me check and see if it's still available and we'll put it in the show notes.
Barry Conrad
We need to know the alcohol storage situation. I also haven't had a good Tempranillo in so long. I haven't had Tempranillo, I used to love Tempranillo so much. I still do. I just haven't had it in so long.
So I'd love to rekindle that romance over some red meat.
Melanie Avalon
Meant to be yeah friends. I will look for it and if it exists, I will put it in the show notes
Barry Conrad
So good.
Melanie Avalon
All right. Well, this was so fun. Anything else to touch on?
Barry Conrad
No, this has been awesome. And I'm honestly so hungry again now.
Thank you, Melanie. Thank you so much for tuning in, everybody. Tuning in once again, we really appreciate each and every one of you listening, and we'll catch you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. And so listeners, just to wrap everything up, the show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 479. Those will have links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out.
We will put, there will also be a transcript there. And if you would like to submit questions for the show, you can also do it on the website as well, or you can email questions at ifodcast.com. And lastly, you can follow us on Instagram. We are IF Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things.
Barry Conrad
It's all the things.
Melanie Avalon
So I guess I will talk to you next week. You will.
Thank you so much for listening to the Intramusian Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.