Welcome to Special Guest Episode 489 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
Get 28% off on all products with code Fast28 on happywholeyou.com.
SHOW NOTES
Dr. Anna Marie, known as the Mindset Doctor, is a visionary leader with over two decades of expertise in human health and mindset, committed to transforming lives. Armed with a Ph.D. in Natural Medicine and certifications in Brain Health, Chinese Medicine, Traditional Naturopathy, and Herbology, she is a respected author, keynote speaker, and the host of "The Happy Whole You Podcast." As the founder of Happy Whole You, she leads the charge to destigmatize mental health and guide individuals toward holistic well-being.
Dr. Anna Marie's groundbreaking brain-nutraceuticals, mindset-rewiring techniques, and holistic practices are reshaping mental health. Her diverse background—from teaching to corporate wellness to CEO and business owner—provides a relatable perspective on how to live an extraordinary life for optimal health and happiness.
Anna Marie healed her brain after years of depression and challenges with dyslexia and ADHD. Anna Marie walked away from an 18-year career at 40 years old to pursue her desire to help people become happy and whole by rewiring the mind and body that hold them back.
book: https://amzn.to/4oHFapd
Take Dr. Anna Marie Frank's FREE Quantum Alignment Assessment: https://happywholeyou.com/pages/quantumalignmentassessmentdr-annamarie
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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 489 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, friends. Welcome back to the show. We have a very special guest interview today for you guys. So the backstory on today's conversation, on my other show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, I had the most fabulous guest, Courtney McDermott, for her book, Give Yourself Permission. And through Courtney, I met-- So by the way, I definitely recommend that episode, and we will put it in the show notes, so check it out. And through Courtney, I met her incredible friend, Dr. Anna Marie Frank. She runs the Happy Whole You company, and she is known as the mindset doctor. She has over two decades of expertise in human health and mindset, and she is committed to transforming lives, which she is really doing. I absolutely loved her book. It's called Stop Bullying Yourself: Identify Your Inner Bully, Get Out of Your Own Way, and Enjoy Greater Health, Wealth, Happiness, and Success. And in that book, friends, oh my goodness, it is a deep dive into everything you can do to completely uplevel your life, in particular identifying and working with this thing called the inner bully. So basically, the thoughts in your heads that are creating self-limiting beliefs and really hindering you in living the life that you want, doing the things that you wanna do, and it's overwhelmingly comprehensive. It goes into every aspect of life. So how should you handle your goals and your finances and your stress levels and your sleep? And what are the top 10 things you should do daily to just, you know, start the day off better? And it's an absolutely incredible book. I loved it. And on top of that, I had a really lovely-- I think we've talked a few times, but have we only talked on the phone once?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I think we've ta- we've talked a couple times, or we've left voice memos.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Okay, that's what it is. I'm like, I was like, "I know we've talked, like, way more than, like, just that one phone call." But when we were talking on the phone, we were chatting about podcasting and all the things, and realized that Dr. Anna would be a perfect guest for this show, for that book, and then also for all of her thoughts on modern medicine and supplements and how to approach a, how to approach health and wellness in the most holistic way.
And also, she has a lot to say about fasting and what some of your hurdles and barriers might be there. So we have so much to dive into and talk about. And also I'm excited 'cause I, I just learned that Dr. Anna's going to be recording her first TED Talk in Italy pretty soon. So congratulations so much on that. That's absolutely incredible.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Thank you. I'm excited.
Melanie Avalon
So yeah. So with that introduction, so many things that we can talk about. But Anna, thank you so much for all that you do, and thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah, my pleasure.
Melanie Avalon
So to get things started, so I mentioned your book, Stop Bullying Yourself. And in that book, you talk a lot about your personal story and your personal history.
So I know it's a long story 'cause it's your entire life, but, um, what you're doing today, is that what you saw yourself doing growing up? Did you have an epiphany, a moment of insight that led to what you're doing today? Like, just, like, what led to, to this now, the version of you?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a, it is a long story, but I will try to sum it up. Ultimately, I got to doing what I'm doing today because of the past struggles I've had with my mental health, and for no apparent reason. So and what I mean by that is I was in high school. I was a four-sport athlete. I got good grades. My parents were married. Like, all the things, like, check every box. Like, you would look at me from the outside and be like, "Oh yeah, she's happy. She's got it all together." But on the inside, I was struggling.
I felt, like, depressed, but I didn't know what to call it back then. That followed me into college, and I just kinda kept pressing it down, and then that followed me into my first career when I moved from Michigan to California. And I actually had found myself in a psychiatrist office in my early 20s, and he put me on three mind-altering medications that made me worse. And so through the journey of working with Western medicine and essentially being injured by it, I figured there's gotta be a better way, and that's when I set forth on a journey to ultimately heal my own brain, and that's what got me to where I am right now.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And you, you talk all about this in, in the book as well. But I mean, you, you talk about how you literally at one point, like, your mom took you to a psych ward, right?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. I felt so empty inside. Like, I felt-- It's, like, really hard to explain. Like, people can, you know, say that they feel depressed, and you might be like, "Why are you depressed?" And when you ask someone who's feeling depressed why are they depressed, we don't always know. And I literally, I'll never forget, I was, like, literally in this parking lot, and I just felt so empty inside, and I just told my mom, like, "I just do not wanna be alive anymore, and it wouldn't even matter if I, like- ... wasn't. I don't think it, anyone would really care.
And I just felt so empty and so depleted. And when we went to the psych ward, it was so depressing. Now, this was just over 20 years ago, and I know there's been some things that have changed, but I literally go into this building and it's, like, gray walls. There's not, like, beautiful windows. Like, there's, there's, you literally go and sit in a room, and they medicate you. And so my mom was like, "I don't think I can leave her here. I don't think this would even help her," because I'm a very active person. I wanna be outside. And so I never ended up staying that day, but it was a very low point in my life.
Melanie Avalon
I was actually thinking about that. I was watching a horror movie, um, like, a few nights ago, and there was a psych ward scene in it, and I was reflecting on how society has approached mental health and wellness, 'cause it was the stereotypical kind of like what you described, but also, like, in the movie form, so you know, like very stereotypical.
And I was just thinking about, and I... Well, first of all, I was thinking, I was like, "I wonder if it a- if all of the places actually do look like this?" And I was like, I'm assuming some of them do, 'cause it's such an iconic, you know, trope in movies. And then I was just thinking about, like, how interesting that this is how we approach mental health.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. It's, it's incredible. I mean, I just think about just even a basic doctor's office, like, and how, you know, people are going there because they're not well, whether, you know, might not be mental health, but something else. And you know, some of these doctor's offices you go into, and it's like, where is, like, the spa vibe? Where is the beautiful paintings on the wall? Where is a beautiful experience when you're feeling horrible? They're like, feel like, I don't know, it's like kinda like a hospital vibe, right? Like, these... It's just very dungeon-esque, I guess. And that's not all doctor's offices or all psych wards, but it does have that, that feeling of ickiness to it when we're trying to work with sick people and lift them up.
And that's literally when I created my brick-and-mortar here in Bakersfield of Happy Little You, I wanted to make sure this place, when you walked in, you felt special, you felt inspired. You see color when you walk in here. It's not just, you know, grays and black and white and, you know, s- a really low blue color. Like, it's, like, I have vibrant colors here when you come in. And I think that's another piece is, like, we get to have beautiful spaces for people to heal, and unfortunately, we don't always have that option.
Melanie Avalon
And so question about all of this, especially with the vibes and, and, and the colors and, you know, changing your mindset, because you mentioned a second ago how you were feeling when you were in that depressive state and, you know, just not, you know, feeling empty, not feeling anything, and that you're, you know, faking it in a way. So what is the role... So it's a two-part question.
So one is, how did you actually get out of that? How did you change yourself? And what is the role of... Like, how do you make yourself feel something if it's not actually there? Like, is there a benefit? 'Cause I do, I know you mention in your book at some point how you can, I think you say, like, fake it till you make it. Like, basically exposing yourself to positive visualizations, and even if you're not feeling it, you know, like, doing that. So how do you, how do you actually do that? Like, how do you actually change your mind?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. So okay, I'll give you an example. So you know, when I was feeling, like, depressed, I could literally be just sitting in my hou- in my house and have, like, this horrible feeling of, like, doom and gloom wash over me. And instead of sitting there in that feeling, and that's what I would do, and I would sit there and ruminate on it and just sit there and feel sorry for myself and feel bad, what I started doing is I would put my shoes on, I would go outside, and I would start taking a walk.
Or if I didn't feel motivated enough to take a walk, I would just go stand on my front porch, and I would take some deep breaths in. So I started to realize as soon as those low emotions came in, I started to change my environment, and I started to go to my breath. And then I would shift into what I was grateful for, into another thought process. And so I started to realize, and then I started to learn about neuroplasticity and how we can essentially, like, rewire our own brains. And so the faking it till I made it was me taking myself out of the environment that I was in if I could, going outside as much as possible, and g- then getting into gratitude and being even s- extra grateful for even the smallest things in my life. Like, they're so exciting. Like, it's so great I have a car. I can literally get in it. It's gonna drive me down the street. I can go wherever I wanna go right now. That is so amazing and so great. Like, it's incredible to even think about, and then to think about, like, what it took to get this car in my driveway, like, all the generations that came before it, Ford Motor. Like, all ... Like, I was really trying to get to this deep gratitude of, like, just even being here and the things around me and what that took, and I had never thought that deeply before. And so that really started to help me, and, like, the faking it till you're making it. Like, showing up and doing different things, taking a different drive to work, like, not always going the same way. I was literally trying to, like, mix up my brain to have these, you know, these new things, this novelty of new things happening and to get me out of the repetitive thoughts that I was having about how my life was so bad and how things were so horrible. And so I started to do that for a while, but I had, like, this really aha moment one of the last times I went to my doctor. That experience is what really catapulted me to really start looking at all areas of my life and start to really shift, like, the environments I was with, not just the physical environment, but what were the environments of the conversations I was with? Who was I talking to? Who was I spending my time with? And, you know, started moving my body for joy and for gratitude, the fact that I could do it, not because I ate ice cream the night before and I had to go and burn off all these calories. So I really had to go to all aspects of my life and start reprogramming the meaning that I was giving everything.
Melanie Avalon
I love this so much, and it reminds me of, because, like, in the book you have your 10 life rules, and, like, the first two I feel relate to this a lot really well 'cause... And I'm paraphrasing, but the, the first one has to do with the idea that the world is not fair. So basically, like, accept, you know, accept that.
And then number two has to do with happiness being a choice. And so that's just so... It's so empowering, 'cause I think people, people really can get stuck in the mindset that they're in and feel like it's, you know, destiny and, like you said, not fair and they're a victim. But you're saying, no, like, you can actually... You, you can change it. I love what you're saying about, like, changing your environment. So, like, even if you're not feeling it, it sounds like you can do physical external things that then, like, inside or outside in to, you know, help, and then that would perpetual. That feeds the outside. It's like a, it's like a upward spiral.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. I mean, we gotta do the internal work and then we can use the external to support the internal. And then sometimes we've gotta be, like, really work on the internal so then when we work on the internal, it shifts our perspective of what's going on in the external. And I talk about in my book, it's like when I started shifting what was going on within me, things around me started to change, yet I still had the same employer, I still had the same job description. You know, I was still living in the same place. But my perception of my life started to shift and change because I started to shift and change the story and the narrative that I was telling myself internally.
And we have the power to do that. I, I talk about the inner pharmacy. You know, ultimately our brain is the strongest pharmacy on planet Earth, which I love that Dr. Daniel Amen talks about that a lot. And we have the power to shift our biochemistry, the hormones in our blood, in 150 to 300 milliseconds by shifting a thought alone. So it is so powerful for us to really pay attention to our thoughts and not believe, sorry, Dr. Daniel Amen says the same thing, not believe every thought that you have. But the beautiful thing about that, it's like, okay, like, I can literally sit here and get into gratitude and start thinking of, like, my nieces. I can think of a baby, and I start feeling like, oh my gosh, you know? So you can start thinking of these things, and it'll start to shift the chemistry going on in your body, and we have that power. And most often, you know, we're never taught how to work with our mind and our brain. We're just kind of taught how to react to the outside world. And so I'm just suggesting, like, what if we started to, instead of react, respond to what is going on within us and start to really train our brains and our bodies in a way that is serving us versus hurting us?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I, I love this so much, and it's so interesting.
So what you're talking about with, you know, just how fast we can change all of the different, like, compounds in our blood, neurotransmitters, all the things. I was just thinking, for example, like with, with food, for example, you could think about how you might be hungry and then you get some news or something and you get really excited about something or startled or whatever it may be, and then your hunger, you know, is, like, completely gone. So that's clearly, like, changing the hunger-related hormones from us changing what you're thinking.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's a beautiful example. Absolutely love that. Yes, absolutely.
Melanie Avalon
So how can people... 'Cause I love this, 'cause you were sending over some, you know, topics that we could talk about in particular related to fasting, and I was just thinking that we... I don't... We don't talk about this much on the show. So, like, and we've been doing this show for so long and answering so many listener questions.
I do think we probably tend to be, when me and, like, my co-hosts talk about this, we tend to probably be more surface level as far as, like, you know, "Love yourself," uh, "You can do it." Like, we're very, like, positive. Can you go a little bit deeper into when people are trying, uh, like, a diet change, for example, or wanna try fasting or whatever, whatever it may be. Maybe eat more, you know, whole foods. No pun intended, since you have Happy Whole You. What is the role of the person's mind and when they are approaching that? Can they literally just do the fast or, like, s- you know, make the changes? Or what is the role? Can their... How can their mind either help or hinder them?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Okay. So I... The mind is everything, and your mind, if you... First, I think it's so important to figure out, like, why are you even going to do this fast? What do you think that you're going to get out of it? And then take that answer and then go beneath it and say, "But why do I want that?" And then you're gonna tell yourself some surface level something. And then go beneath that and say, "But why do I want that?" And then you're gonna tell yourself something a little deeper. And then ask yourself again, "But why do I want that?" And, like, see how many why's deep you can go with why you really want it, and then ask yourself, like, "Well, where is this coming from?" And, and so it's, like, getting really clear around Like why you're fasting.
And so, and here's the thing, like if we're gonna fast do a 24 hour, 48 hour, 72 hour fast, it may be just like for some people they're like, "Well, I'm just doing it because, you know, I know it's gonna help with my cell function, it's gonna give me this full reset, it gives me so much energy. Like I, I just, I'm feeling tired, I wanna do it." And then there's some people that may wanna do a fast to kick off like a weight loss journey, or they're feeling like, "I have to lose the weight. I have to lose the weight." And so sometimes when we feel like I have to, like we're, we're pushed up against a wall, there's like this natural resistance to say like, "Well, I don't really wanna do it, I just have to do it," right? So it's like also shifting that to like, "I get to do this. I'm choosing to do this." But going to like the why of why you are using this fast to enhance your life, and then figuring out the reason behind that. I know that I've worked with so many women that wanna lose weight, and, um, fasting is a part of that journey, uh, for some of them. And sometimes the fasting is the weight, sometimes the fasting is a spiritual experience. But what I have found is that sometimes women who have a past history of abuse, there's something unconscious to them that is running in the background, a story of like, "Yeah, but if I lose the weight, then people will actually see me." And they have this thing where they really actually don't want people to see them sexually, because they've been abused in that way. And so there's like this self-sabotaging that can happen and go on, and I think that with all of us in our lives, we can set these goals and these things we wanna do, and when that self-sabotage comes in, that's a beautiful invitation for us to really reflect and be like, "Okay, interesting. I'm doing this thing again," and then digging into like what's really going on beneath that. And that's where we can come up with a lot of clarity around like how we wound up being. I mean, there's nothing wrong with ultimately any of us, right? But we're all the product of these past programs that have been programmed into us, and these past programs and the meaning that we've given them. And so for some people when it comes to weight loss, there can be a meaning of, "It has to be hard.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Oh, I'm going to starve." And, you know, there's a meaning they're giving it that makes it challenging for them to even step in and accomplish the thing that they think they wanna do.
Melanie Avalon
It's so fascinating, and I don't remember if you talk about it in your book too, I, I know that I've read about it in quite a different, few different books on trauma. But like what you're talking about with the, the, uh, the trauma background behind people being scared to lose weight. So that's where the actual... Like when people think of like adverse childhood events, like those scores, that actually comes out of... It was like a guy who was doing studies on people with... Was it, I think... Do, do you know what I'm talking about? He was doing studies in, I think, in people who either needed to lose weight, and he realized that the resistant people all had... I, I, I think this is correct. They all had sexual trauma in their background, and then that led to the development of these adverse childhood events and like those scores. So yeah, it's absolutely, absolutely fascinating.
With the, with the why thing, how do you know when you've gotten to the, like the bottom why? Is it a feeling, or?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I mean, I have found that when I get to my bottom why, there's like almost like a sadness and excitement at the same time. Usually I get the sadnesses like I have like empathy for my younger self that I went through that or that I felt that way or whatnot, but then an excitement of like, "Oh my gosh, that's not me anymore," you know?
So it's, it's a very interesting emotional, I feel like, awakening, because I don't know about you, but like in my life too when I've like worked with a coach or done something to like go to these deep levels, I mean, I have memories and things that have come up that I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't even... I haven't registered that in so long." Like it's almost like I had forgotten about it, and then it like comes back into the surface and then I just like have so much gratitude for who I used to be and what I had gone through, that it's like, "Wow, look how far I've come. But that's not my story anymore." So often we're allowing the very past stories and meanings we gave things in our past, and usually they're negative things, to influence our current moment and our future. And what's interesting about that is those bad things aren't happening anymore. They're no longer true. That is the past. We can't go to the past. We can't change the past. So one thing I work with clients on, and I've done it with myself, is shifting the meaning we're giving that past. So shifting the meaning that, you know, we're giving to, you know, that breakup where maybe someone broke up with you or cheated on you. Really looking at, okay, well, what's the meaning I can give it now? Maybe it's the fact that, wow, I mean, I open my book with a story about a relationship I had that did not come to fruition, and I'm so grateful it didn't happen. But it also taught me that, you know, believe people's actions and not their words always. And I'm, I'm one of those people, like some people learn in different ways. I'm really, like you can tell me something and I will usually remember it. I'll remember when someone says, "Hey, let's go get coffee," and I'm like, "Okay, well let's go do that." And then they're like, "Oh yeah," like they, it like goes over their head. Like so if you use words with me, like I am going to remember what you said. Then like some people remember more like, you know, like what people do. And so for me, I was believing the words this person, and I wasn't Really looking at what their actions were with those words. And so I... That was a great lesson in my life, because it's made me realize, like, you have to really look at people's actions, not just what they're telling you. And so there's always a blessing within all of these events that happen for us versus to us, because it's a part of our journey to evolve, I believe, as, like, a soul. And these experiences better afford us the opportunity to support the next person that comes along.
Melanie Avalon
So question there about, you know, the person of you or anybody who's listening who is going through these different stages, and because you... one of the things you talk about in your book is that you, th- you don't necessarily have to, quote, like, "reinvent yourself." I'm curious, like, so what is the role of you still being the same person throughout your life's journey and just becoming more whole as a person compared to becoming, like, a new person?
Like, should somebody feel like they're becoming a new person? Are they just healing their old self? Like, what works best there?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I mean, I think it's, like, understanding that we're whole and complete exactly how we are right now. Like, there's no need to think I have to be a completely different person, because the answers are already within us.
So when we think we have to change into another person, it can be subconsciously saying, "I have to be somebody different," when it's like, "No, you get to be the person you are," but we get to go digging and pull up the knowledge that's already within us, and it's that, that inner technology. I think Cornie talks about that, the inner, the inner technology that we all have and this inner wisdom that we all have. It's just we've been led to believe that it's outside of us. And so when we think we have to be a completely different person, it's like, no, it's already there. We're already whole and complete where we're at. We can run different programs, and I think that's the key, is, like, we get to... We can turn off or pause certain programs that we've been running in our minds, and we get to activate these other programs that have been put on pause because the knowledge is there. It's w- it's within all of us. And it's just a remembering of, of who we are and why we're here. And once we do that, our bodies respond in such a loving way, and it's a really powerful place to allow ourselves to get to.
Melanie Avalon
Somebody I've had on the show a few times... I wonder how many times he's been on. I don't know if you know Dr. Glenn Livingston. He wrote a book called Never Binge Again. For, like, the longest time, it was, like, the number one diet book on Amazon. Like, it was wild. It had, like, 10,000 reviews. And he- Glenn is a, a dear, dear friend.
And, um, so this is not asking for, like, a, a comment on his work, per se, but I'm gonna ask about an idea in his book that is interesting because it's, it's very similar. It starts in the same place as what you're saying, and yet you guys take it kind of two opposite directions. So he talks a lot about the role of, you know, that we do have these childhood experiences that lead to these eating problems later in life. So, like, his personal one had to do with his mom would give him, like, to make him, to, like, placate him or make him, you know, like, kind of like a babysitter would give him, like, chocolate, like, chocolate syrup. So, like, he developed this, you know, obsession with chocolate. But then h- the thesis he takes from there is, like, none of that matters. Basically, yes, that might be why you're doing it, but it doesn't change in the moment what you're doing now. So, like, don't even, don't even, like, think about that. Like, bas- I mean, he doesn't say don't think about it, but he ba- basically says, like, you know, when you're in the moment of wanting to binge or whatever it may be, his approach is you call it, like, an inner pig, and you just don't listen to it, essentially. You tell it, you tell it to go away. So what is the role of understanding why people might be struggling with food or diet or fitness or lifestyle or life choices or whatever it may be? Knowing that, how much do you need to, like, carry that going forward or, like, see it through that lens versus just make change regardless of why you're doing it?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Well, I think we get to start with, like, what is the goal of that behavior? And all we're trying to do is biochemically match that prescription that we had when we were a kid, because it's all coming through our thoughts, and then our thoughts create the action, and then the action creates, again, more of that feeling that we think we'll get when we feel and we do the thing. So all we're essentially trying to do is, like, get that feeling.
So for me, I used to overeat, like, ridiculous, and it would be late at night, and I would feel guilty, and then the next morning, I would, like, try to go run and, and burn it all off. So I had, like, an eating disorder and a running disorder at the same time. And here's the thing. It's like if I go to what I was doing, I was trying to chemically create a feeling of acceptance and love and oxytocin and serotonin and all of these hormones that I wasn't feeling in my life or that I thought I wasn't feeling 'cause I wasn't allowing it to come through, and often it's because we've already made this idea up in our head of, like, what it's supposed to look like. And when we focus on what we think it's supposed to look like, we miss the things right in front of us that are there to help us, and I talk about that as well in the book. Like, we're missing some things right in front of us. And so essentially we're just trying to match or mimic that past biochemical experience, that emotion from when we were younger or from whenever, and we're just, we're doing it in either the same way, and it's not giving us that, that same result because then we have guilt and shame on top of it. And so kind of like understanding that this is like what our brains and our bodies are doing, that I feel like for me it's helped me be able to be like, "Oh, interesting. I'm leaning towards wanting to go buy those Oreo cookies at the store, and I can already see what's gonna happen. If I buy them, I will go in my car and I will start eating them, and I'll tell myself I can have three of them, and then I'll keep driving and then I'll have five or six. And then I'll put them in the backseat, and then I'll get home, and then I will try not to think about them for two hours, and then later I'll go and I'll eat the whole bag." And again, so it's like, okay, knowing that, one, I can be like, "Okay, I'm not even gonna buy the bag of cookies," and I, I like will giggle at myself and be like, "Okay, we're not buying those cookies anymore." Even though I know like how bad they are for me and all of that, I'm like, "I just, I'm not even gonna bring them in my car." But I, I use a lot of like love and humor with myself and softness because once I started doing that, it started to help me like move past the action or the thing that I, I thought I needed to do to feel the thing. I don't know if that makes sense.
Melanie Avalon
It's interesting because I, I actually think about this a lot because I know, so I know for me as far as it comes to like eating and food that I, I'm gonna get obviously a lot, a lot of pleasure out of it. And I am always fascinated by people that are moderationists, like who can just, you know, moderate and like stop. 'Cause I'm the type that if, once I'm eating, I like just like to keep eating. And if it were up to me, if I, if I were to like start eating during the day, I would just wanna keep eating all day. And like so like with the Oreo, Oreo example, I could tell myself like, "Oh, I'm just gonna have three Oreos," but it would be the exact same thing as you. Like I would end up eating all of it and it sh- yeah, it's just ... I, I'm very much aware that for me it's easier to, to have ... For me, fasting is like guardrails because it makes it so that it's just not even a question. So like if, if I'm, if it's my fast, then I don't have to have this whole like, like battle with willpower of do I eat it, do I not eat it? It's just not even an option.
It's like not on the table. And it, it's like similar to what you talk about with optimizing your environment to support you. And then for me though it's like for fasting it's like a, it's optimizing my time environment to support me because now, again, it's just not on the table. And then the proverbial table and the literal table. And then when I actually do eat in my fasting window, then I can eat as m- much as I want, like it's, it's my feasting time, and that's what works for me. But the thing that I was saying is interesting that I've thought about for a long time is I'm like, have I just, have I just like hacked my ... How do I say it? Barry, my co-host, and I, we actually found a study that talked about this, and it was talking about is eating, like what is the difference between eating for pleasure hedonically versus, um ... It used t- it used two different words. But basically like are you eating like gratuitously, like just for pleasure, or can you eat for pleasure and it's not this, you know, gratuitous thing? And their conclusion was that it has to do with is it in line with your goals or not. It was a fascinating study, but it kind of brought me ... It, it was really helpful for me because like I said, I almost have this like second, like this like shame aspect still, even been doing fasting this long, have a whole podcast about it, and yet I'm like, "Hmm, when I'm in my eating window and I'm just like eating all the things, am I, am I somehow not in control? I've just put up these guardrails that make it look like it's in control." But it works for me. Like it works for my lifestyle. I love doing it. Um, but I, I just have this, 'cause you mentioned the word shame, I still like struggle with the shame around it, which is so weird to me 'cause it's like working for me. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that or if that even made sense.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Well, I think, I mean, shame is like one of the lowest vibrational frequencies that any of us can vibrate at. And when we get into shame, it like makes us feel so heavy and dense that it's almost like we don't care, so we keep eating, we keep, you know, doing that thing that is actually hurting us more than it helps us until we get enough oomph to pull ourselves out of that dark hole.
So shame is a very, it's a very challenging thing, and that's one of the things I love working with clients on is like moving, moving through the shame because so many ... I mean, we all have it. It's on that spectrum. Like we're human, so we're, we're supposed to feel this wide variety of emotions in our lifetime. And when those emotions hit and they feel very dense and feel very heavy, it biochemically signals, "Oh my gosh," like, "I do not want to feel this again." And then it almost like creates a little bit of an anxiety of, "Oh, I don't wanna feel that thing again." But any time we're thinking of a feeling, it's starting to create those biochemicals. So it's a very, a very tricky thing. But actually what I was gonna say about the binge eating and then the fasting is, number one, the fasting for me is so easy in the sense of I am so busy doing so, like doing what I love to do that I don't think of food 24/7 like I used to. And so fasting actually serves me for time management. It helps me because it's like one less thing I have to think about when actually... And this is coming from somebody who literally, I used to think about, I would be eating a meal and thinking, "What am I gonna eat at my next meal?"
Melanie Avalon
Me too. Me too. That was the story of my life. Yes.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yes. Like, it consumed me. It was, it was draining my energy so much. Like, all I could think about was food and what I was eating and how many calories and, like, and there's so much shame in that, right? Like, I don't know about you, but that was, like, even shameful.
I was, like, in wellness, and I'm constantly thinking about this stuff, and I'm like, "I can't talk to anyone about this. Like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm such a fraud." And what I've found for me to be true is there are two reasons why I was overeating and allowing food to control my life, and that was because, number one, I became bored in my life because I was not... And the second part is because I was not following my true soul's calling. I was doing the things in my life that were socially put there for me or accepted. For example, my dad was like, "Oh, become a teacher because that's the best job in America. Like, do that," and I want- really wanna go to medical school, and I'm like, "No, you know, you're, you're not smart enough. Just be a teacher," and I became a teacher, and by the way, I was a great teacher, and I had a lot of fun. However, that wasn't my true calling.
And so I think when we are having these overeating and we're having this relationship with food, that we do it because food is a drug. I think that a lot of it, it has to do with the fact that we are not showing up as our true authentic selves and doing what our truly, our heart truly desires. Because the moment you step into something that your heart truly desires, the very last thing you're thinking about is food, you know? I mean, unless your heart's calling is being a chef, which is great, too, you know what I mean? But, like, I mean, for me, I found that to be so incredibly true because I don't have issues with food like I used to, and those issues started to really dissipate eight years ago when I started building Happy Whole You and started doing the stuff that I'm doing today. And it wasn't like I had to go on some crash diet or get hypnotized or do anything extreme. It was literally me getting in alignment of who I am, forgiving myself for whatever happened in my past, and, like, being okay with, like, where I'm at and where I'm going and being essentially unapologetic for my life and the decisions I've made in my life.
And I think that when we get stuck in our past stories around the shame, around the guilt, around the anger, all of that, our bodies are trying. We'll go to the ice cream. We'll go to these foods because those are, like, the opposite of shame, regret, anger, right? Like, those are creating that serotonin, that dopamine dump, and so we're on this constant, you know, seesaw trying to get that balance 'cause our body wants to feel in balance. Our body wants to feel aligned. And unfortunately, when we're out of alignment, we feel completely trapped, and the way we get trapped in life is to conform. And at the root of everything is we are conforming to society and to what everyone else thinks is best for us, and we've lost ourselves along the way, and then we feel trapped.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
And we can feel trapped in a food cycle, in a sex cycle, in a drug cycle, but I do believe that that's kind of, like, the root of it, is s- be- stepping into that conformity and losing who we are from a soul level.
Melanie Avalon
I completely resonate with that. And, um, I think for me, the, the shame piece, what it is now is that... So when I'm doing my fast, like you were saying, like, I, I get so much time back. I d- I do the things that I love. I don't think about food anymore 24/7, which was so, so miserable, like, such a miserable st- state to be in.
And then I get t- I eat all the food that I want in my eating window, and I love it. So the shame piece that's, like, still lingering for me is that I'm, like, from an outside third-party perspective, well, A, I eat, like, super late, so it doesn't align with, like, societal norms, and then B, I eat, like, a large amount of food and, you know, in a couple hours 'cause I do, like, a one meal a day. So then I have this weird shame, even though, like, nobody's, like, nobody can see me. It's my, you know, evening dinner. But I'm like, "This looks like it's overeating," even though it's the pattern that works for me and it's, you know, a fasting, feasting pattern daily. I'm just so, I'm so fascinated that I still hold onto this weird shame aspect even though, like, I literally, like I said, I literally have a show about it, um, I talk about it all the time. Yeah, it's so, so interesting.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
You know what the root of that is, right?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, we could play the why game, I guess. Uh, fear? I don't know.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Fear. Okay, but what, what are you, what's the fear of?
Melanie Avalon
It would be the fear of not being n- I guess not being so- normal by society's standards, so not being accepted by society.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Okay, and being accepted and normal by society's standards is doing what?
Melanie Avalon
Makes me... I mean, similar to what I guess you were... Oh, wait, we weren't talking about it on... Were we talking about it on this, or were we talking about it beforehand? Makes me... We were talking about it beforehand.
Wanting to be accepted by society, so, like, needing acceptance to feel okay about myself. Yeah, just wanting to be accepted in the clan.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
And to be accepted, what do we need to do to be accepted?
Melanie Avalon
Conform.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Exactly.
Melanie Avalon
Which is what you were saying.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. It, I mean, I, like, I've spent so much time on this. Like, literally, my keynote when I go to companies and I talk, it is about that conformity because the conformity is you having this beautiful large meal That works for you in your window late at night, and it's a beautiful rhythm you've set in your life, and you said that this- you feel good about, like, this, these bumpers you put up and how you're showing up for yourself in this. But that little bit of lingering shame that you've described is there because of the need for conformity.
So that is the invitation for you.
Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. Oh my goodness, and I didn't even plan that. Literally was, like, the perfect example of what you were saying. I love it.
And honestly, so, so normally this show is a Q&A format. The way we do it is we discuss a study in the beginning, and then we do Q&A, and then at the end we, quote, "break our proverbial fast," and we, we showcase a restaurant and talk about what we would order there, and we always talk about, like, all the things we would order. And, um, it's fun because I do like to ... I don't want it to be all about the fasting all the time. Like, I wanna emphasize to people that the eating window is just as important as the fast for your health and wellness. And another side benefit is I'm probably doing it because I'm trying to work on my shame about needing to conform to society, so I'm trying to, like, repeatedly say, like ... I'm trying to make it seem okay what I'm doing, having this, you know, massive meal. Because I feel like it's not okay, because I feel like it doesn't align with society's standards 'cause I need to conform. Oh my goodness, incredible. That is so eye-opening. Okay. Uh, okay, I'm also dying to know. So we're talking a lot about, you know, your mindset and how that relates to the choices that you're making and whether or not you can stick to them and how they change your life and all the things. This is kind of like a really, this is like a tangent, but we've seen ... I feel like there's been so many people struggling for so long, and now we have this whole wave of GLP-1 agonists, and it seems like people are taking a, you know, taking a GLP-1 agonist and all of these struggles that they've had seemingly for a lot of people, you know, go away. Like, like they can now, they can now actually lose the weight. And so I'm really curious, and I, I, I think it's, like, I am all about people doing what works for them and actually just recorded a whole episode on GLP-1 agonists and the potential benefits of, like, microdosing and all the things. Um, I'm curious, what are your thoughts on using that as an example? I guess there could be other things, but what are your thoughts on actually, you know, taking an injection or something and then it seems to, quote, "magically fix" all of these issues? Like, is that also a path that people can take?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I mean, I think our paths are gonna be, like, unique to all of us, and we're all gonna find our way. I think the, what I've seen with clients that I've had that have used the injections of GLP-1 and losing all the weight, if we don't do the mental work, it's interesting because it's like, "Yeah, I lost all this weight, and I do feel good, and I feel more energized, and I have a little bit more joy," but that deep-rooted challenge is still there, 'cause they haven't really work- done all of that inner work. And so, I mean, I'm not, I'm not for or against, you know, for the GLP-1s. I think that it, there's a time and a place for medicine for sure, and it depends on the individual. But if you're, if you're just taking it because you think that if you lose the weight it'll solve y- your pr- your problems, and most of our problems are deep-rooted problems but we make them seem surface, you're still gonna have that internal mental struggle.
Um, so I'm a big proponent of if you're gonna use the GLP-1, like, get a coach, work with someone where you can work on your purpose, your, your mindset. What is your soul calling? Like, you know, what was going on with you before this weight, you know, all came on over the years? Like, what did you truly wanna be? Who did you truly wanna be? And I think, like, the more we have conversations about that, the more we can, we can truly, truly heal. And I think people also forget, too, you know, like, the two, two really important things that we need to intake, or actually three, and this goes back to Barbara O'Neill's work, is the fiber and the protein to help naturally create GLP-1 in the ileum and in the gut, and then the fats. And so if we're not getting the fiber, the protein, and the fats all in one meal, we're gonna be more hungry. We're gonna, we're gonna h- not feel as, you know, satisfied. So it's like, oh my gosh, if we can do the mental work and do the deep work, the work that most people avoid doing, and step into that soul calling and who you are and being authentically you without conforming, and eat the foods that agree with you, and then, yeah, have a piece of pie and not feel guilty about it, I mean, I think that's the ultimate win and formula for, for all of us to get to a point where we can, you know, thrive with w- wherever we're at with our weight, um, or on our journey.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like a lot of the focus that we've had when talking about these has been that people need to make the, the dietary changes. So basically, you know, they can go on these, completely lose their, their hunger, lose the weight, but then they're not focusing on eating nutritious food, you know, getting their nutrients in, getting their protein in.
And so if they ever go off of them ... Well, actually, during them, they, you, you need the nutrients, and then going off of them, it's just if you haven't addressed the food, like, what you're actually eating problem, then you're gonna, you might, you're gonna probably struggle and, you know, rebound and regain the weight. But we've talked much less about what you're saying is the actu- you know, the, the mindset and the foundation and, you know, working on yourself during all of this and who are you before and after. And yeah, I do think it can be a great catalyst for people who are Like, n- who need a, like, need a life... What, what's the word? A lifeboat. Like, they, they need, they need something to, like, pull them out and, like, like you're saying, so important to work on the s- you know, the you inside as well during it.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. Ex- exactly. And I think, too, and not feeling shameful that you're actually taking them.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, that's what I was talking about with the last guest because there's this also, there's this massive ... Like, we were talking about how, um, she had seen an Instagram post and somebody was talking about using them for Alzheimer's prevention, but then was, like, making it super clear that this was not for weight loss and this was, like, microdosing. And we were just talking about, like, s- it's so interesting that there's this shame around taking them, like, y- like, for, for weight loss.
Whereas, like, you don't really judge people taking other pharmaceuticals for other health conditions. So w- you know, why? Why is there all this judgment and shame? It's really, really interesting if you think about it.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Oh, yeah. 100%.
Melanie Avalon
So this is a complete tangent, but it's something I'm dying to ask you, and it's a question that you said you could talk about. So what is your tongue telling you about your nervous system and metabolism? And I think we actually talked about this on the phone, so I, I have no idea what you're gonna say here, so I'm really excited.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Okay. So one of the things ... I'm a n- I'm a naturopath. When I work with people, either whether it's in person or remotely, um, I'll have them send me a photo of their tongue just hanging out. I'll have them send me a short video of their tongue just hanging out, and then along with their, like, fingernails, their eyes, their face, their ears because the body is physically telling us all the time what it needs or what's happening. We're just no longer trained in this country and this society to identify what the body's expressing.
But anyways, so the tongue specifically, I literally ... Like, we'll talk to someone, they'll be telling me all sorts of things, all of a sudden I'm like, "Stick out your tongue." So they're like, "Wait, what? This sounds so personal." Um, so yeah. So for example, if you let your tongue hang out and your tongue is, like, vibrating, like it won't stop moving, that is a sign that your nervous system needs some support. It's almost like you're burning the candle at both ends. Another thing you can look at your tongue is if you have, you know, a deep line in the middle of your tongue or a coating over your tongue. This is a sign of digestion disruption going on, which can be affecting your metabolism, just as the adrenals and the stress can be affecting your hormones and your metabolism. Anyone that has, like, that vibration in the tongue, sometimes those are people have about, or have an issue with sleeping. Uh, and they're not fully sleeping through the night. They're waking up at night. And then you pair on top of that the line down the middle of the tongue with, you know, the coating over the tongue, whether it's white, whether it's yellow, whether it's black, and you have that disruption in the gut. Now you're ... Someone in front of me is usually exhibiting sleep issues, anxiety. They can feel the reflux going on. Their digestion isn't going well. And then the tongue will start getting, like, these high raised white, or not white, red dots, which is a sign of hormones. So I've studied Chinese medicine. So in Chinese medicine, you know, we look at the body. We say, "Okay. What is the body telling us?" And so those are just a few thi- few examples of, you know, I'll look at someone's tongue, and it can give us some stronger indications. And usually it'll, it, your tongue will start showing before it comes up on blood work. Maybe before, you know, you had three days where you have not slept well. Maybe you've had a little bit of insomnia here and there, but nothing too crazy. But the tongue will start showing us these things before it's, like, very apparent. And my job as a naturopath is, how do I get to the foundations of your health and figure out what's going on foundationally, you know, years before it comes up in, you know, your blood work and you're in, you know, a 80% diseased state. Like, we don't, we don't want that. But we don't really listen. We're, we're really bad at listening to our bodies and what our bodies are trying to tell us and teach us.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
We just kind of, you know, take an ibuprofen or, you know, just push through, and, "Oh, I'll get to that later," and, "I'm just so busy. I've got all these things to do," and we ignore our body until it speaks louder and louder and louder and then slaps us in the face.
And then we're like, "Oh my gosh, I have full-blown acid reflux," or, you know, "I have full-blown anxiety," or, "I have ... " I mean, you name it. That's kind of what I ... It's not kind of. It's what I love to do with people.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I did not ... Okay. I did not know you were gonna talk about vibrations of the tongue. That was a curve ball.
I was like, "It's probably gonna do with ... " I mean, then you mentioned, like, the, the coatings and stuff. But, um, that is so interesting. I love it. Do, do you tongue scrape? Do you use a tongue scraper?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I use my toothbrush, but I really don't ... I don't have any coating or anything on my tongue. But I do, we do sell them here, so some people do use them.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yeah. Some people do use the tongue scraper.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. One, one more fun question. So you said you can provide a 60-second reset that people could do before breaking a fast or, or a hard workout. So what would that look like?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I know we don't have video, so everyone gets to use their imaginations. But so in Chinese medicine, we have these things called the meridians, and these meridians are highways of energy that flow through the body. There's one meridian in particular called your triple warmer meridian, and through the work of Donna Eden in energy medicine, there, this triple warmer meridian, I learned this from her, where you can push on these two points in the body. And what it does is it helps to kind of calm that triple warmer meridian, which is, when its energy's being blocked through it, it can feel like, almost like we're in fight or flight. Okay?
So we're a little bit anxious, and you're about to break a fast, which should be a very, like, you know, peaceful, exciting thing to do, and you get to go and you get to enjoy this food. And so what you can do is behind your arm, so like where your tricep is, you take one arm and put it behind where your tricep is and use your four fingers to really push into that tricep And kind of palpate there and then hold it in, almost like you're pushing four buttons on your tricep. And you should have zero tenderness there, and if you do, you need to spend some more time pushing on these points. Then you would take your other arm and wrap it, it's almost like you're hugging yourself, and put it underneath your armpit, kind of like where if you wore a bra, your bra line would be. So it's almost like you're hugging yourself. You have your four fingers up on your tricep and your four fingers underneath your armpit, and you're pushing and just holding those points, and they could feel tender. And then all you're gonna do is you are going to do five deep breaths, and you're gonna breathe in through the nose, and then when you breathe out through the mouth, you kind of drop your jaw and you just kind of go, "Ha." And you just do this five times. So it's just breathing in through the nose and then out through the mouth. Ha. And again, you're just holding those points. And your breaths may be five breaths, it may be 10 breaths, but you're just taking one minute and you're holding those points. If you're somebody that struggles with feeling anxious, I just recommend even just laying down in, uh, in your bed at night, giving yourself that hug, holding those points, and doing like five to 10 deep breaths before you go to bed. And as you're doing those breaths and focusing on the breaths, every time you're breathing out, you're breathing out what you're gra- like, what you're grateful for. So it's like a breath of gratitude. And it just helps to really center you and calm you. And then once the energy flows through that triple warmer meridian, actually what it does is it opens up energy to what's called your spleen meridian, and that spleen meridian comes all into the stomach area, which is gonna help you digest life, deal with mental and emotional demands more easily. Um, so it's a really great little exercise to do for about one minute that can really reset the nervous system.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. Amazing. I love it. Oh, thank you so much.
Well, this has been absolutely incredible. Was there anything else that you wanted to leave with listeners for how they can, you know, just best stop their inner bully and up level their lives?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
I think the most important thing is just to remember, like, you have everything within you that you need, and you are already whole and complete as you are. It's just paying attention to that inner pharmacy in your mind, and what are you choosing, what programs are you choosing to run? Because there's some programs that maybe you've turned off when you were little that we need to turn back on. That joy, that happiness, that, you know, feeling of, "I can do anything. I can be anything." And I wanna turn those programs back on with, with all of us and turn down the other programs that are, that are no longer serving us.
I also have, and we can put this in the show notes, I have this free, it's called a quantum alignment assessment, where you just click on the link and you take this assessment, and it's gonna share with you your brain type. This is also, some of this is based on Dr. Daniel Amen's work, some affirmations based on Louise Hay's work that'll specifically fit for you, and it just kind of gives you, like, this PDF of recommendations that w- like, if I were to see you, these would be some of the things that I may recommend for you, and this is based on a lot of amazing people's work. But I think sometimes it's just important for us to understand, like, where we're at and, you know, what actions can we take to start moving that needle. Uh, 'cause sometimes people just don't know where to start, and I get that, too.
Melanie Avalon
I love that so much. Yeah.
Thank you so much for creating all those resources. So listeners, we will put all of this in the show notes and, um, you can also, thank you for this, Anna, so you can go to happywholeyou.com and use the coupon code FAST28, and that will get you 28% off all of the supplements that you have. Um, by the ... So what different supplements do you have, by the way?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Oh, yes. So I have, I've really created a line of brain nutraceuticals to help with the emotional brain health. Uh, so Calm You is one of our flagship products, and it just really helps take that edge off without making you feel sleepy or tired, to calm that amygdala in the brain.
We also have Happy You, which I call it my natural antidepressant. Bright You, which is, I actually take that every day. It's, like, neuroprotective. It's that natural anti-inflammatory. And then, yeah, we have, we have a few other products on there that I formulated just 'cause I was, I was sick of taking, like, 10 to 20 different products and I was like, "Okay, can we, like, put some of these together and make it easier?" And so that's how I came up with, with my line.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's one of the things we first bonded over, was how passionate we are about creating supplements that are what we wanna take. Like, you know.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
100%.
Melanie Avalon
Pretty selfish, but then it ends up helping everybody else, so it's all good. So again, so we can go to happywholeyou.com. The code FAST28 will get you 25% off all the products. And then you also have the availability there for one-on-one sessions with you. And the code works for that as well, the, the FAST28, or or is that separate?
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
That one is, is regular. But, and your ... the code is actually 28% off, so you guys get a little extra, extra there.
But, but yeah. And you can always, if anyone's local to California or we have people that fly in to come to our, our wellness center here, and we can meet in person, and you can have a whole wellness biohacking day at our center or stay a few nights as well. So you're welcome to come.
Melanie Avalon
Amazing. So again, we'll put that all in the show notes. We'll also put the link to the free quantum alignment assessment. And yeah, thank you so much, Dr.
Anna Marie. This has been, this has been absolutely incredible. It's, yeah, it's been amazing getting to know you over the past, I mean, many, many months now, and can't wait to hopefully hang out in person someday.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yes. It's gonna happen.
Melanie Avalon
It's gonna happen. And, um, sending you all the good vibes for your upcoming travels and your TED Talk, which is so exciting.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Yay. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Melanie Avalon
Enjoy the rest of your day, and we'll talk soon.
Dr. Anna Marie Frank
Thanks.
Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes.
We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joiner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.