Welcome to Episode 495 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
SHOW NOTES
STUDIES: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28177691/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8624477/
https://journal.trialanderror.org/pub/intermittent-fasting/release/1
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10647529/
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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 495 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 495 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, Melanie Avalon, and hey, everyone tuning in. I'm doing great. How are you doing? How's your day?
Melanie Avalon
I'm good. I was thinking about you at something recently. Do you want to know why?
Barry Conrad
Why?
Melanie Avalon
Well, you might have seen it actually on Instagram, but I went to see this show here called Basura, and it's at the theater here where they test a lot of shows for Broadway. So the music was done by Gloria Estefan. Is that her name?
Barry Conrad
Estefan. I love Gloria Estefan.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, and her daughter Emily, so they did the music and lyrics, and the cast was mostly all not from here. But the woman who played the mom, ironically enough, she was friends with one of the friends I went with.
He actually wanted to go in part to see her. They were-- They, they know each other. But she was the original Nina in In the Heights.
Barry Conrad
What? That is crazy. Oh, wow. That's amazing.
Melanie Avalon
And she's played, like, Elphaba on Broadway and Angelica in Hamilton, and she was just in Sunset Boulevard.
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow.
Melanie Avalon
She was amazing. So her name is Mandy Gonzalez, but I didn't realize. I'm so sad. I wish I had realized that she's the original Nina. I would have been, like, appreciating her voice more, you know?
Like, like I would have been hearing all of her songs in my head. It was really good. Yeah. It was about-- So it's based on the true story of the recycled orchestra of Cateura in Paraguay. Apparently, where they're from, that, that location is kind of like a garbage dump for a lot of the country. Like, there's just like a, it's like a landfill. There's lots of trash there. And it's about these students, again, true story, who formed an orchestra, and they made instruments out of trash, and then they actually, like, travel and perform. So it was very, it was very inspiring, and the music was, it was very Broadway-y feeling. You know how there's like, you know like the, the Broadway musicals, how they all have like a Broadway-y sound to them? I, I can, I can see it going to Broadway is my point.
Barry Conrad
That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It was, it was great. So, oh, and the, oh, the reason, for listeners, the reason it reminds me of Barry is because he was in In the Heights at Sydney Opera House, which is so epic.
Barry Conrad
It was so much fun, and also it was with the original Carla, who was in In the Heights. She was in that show as well. So she would have known Ni- the girl playing Nina.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Oh my goodness. Small world.
Barry Conrad
So crazy. You see so many shows, Mel. I'm so impressed.
Like, I feel like you intentionally take in a lot of entertainment and shows, and it's, it's great. Supporting the arts, we need it, you know? It's a-- Our industry needs it.
Melanie Avalon
I was thinking about this last night actually, 'cause I was having a phone call with a friend in LA, and I was just thinking, like, if I was in LA now, 'cause I, I feel like I basically go to almost everything I can go to in Atlanta, and it's great. I- it's like the perfect amount of, of theater.
But if- I would be so overwhelmed in LA or New York because I would wanna see everything. Like, I would just... Oh, it's probably good, right, that I don't live there right now.
Barry Conrad
Do you have any-- Have you made any kind of friends, like actor friends or people in that scene over there because you go to all the shows, to so many shows? I'm sure they, some of them recognize you or, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I, yes, a lot of them. I have a lot of actor friends from it actually. Yeah, I see a lot of the same people in, 'cause a lot of, like, the professional theater scene has a lot of actors that, you know, perform in a lot of the shows. So yes, to answer your question.
Barry Conrad
So good. I'm good.
I'm having sort of what I'm calling my America month. I know it's still, for people listening to this, it's way in the future, but because I've had my first Fourth of July, I'm kind of ta- like having a bit of a deep dive into, like, Americana, like doing research on American history, going to the Met, you know, going, I wanna go to the Statue of Liberty. I'm just trying to get into all the stuff to, now that I'm a permanent resident, which is exciting, I just wanna kind of really do all my, you know, just deep dive into, you know, how America was built, you know. Everything that I can learn and discover, I, I'm all for it right now.
Melanie Avalon
You're gonna know more than, like, Americans.
Barry Conrad
Who knows? But also, like, Mel, I also am putting together, like, a proper all-American feast. So do you have any, like, suggestions of what is quintessential American?
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. This is such a fun question.
Barry Conrad
Tell me.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I think you should, I think you should try to, like, are you gonna try to, I mean, 'cause there's such different food throughout the entirety, entirety of the US. But okay, I'm just thinking, like, randomly.
Ob- ob- obviously I'm thinking of, like, the South and stuff like that. Well, I would say Well, meatloaf, obviously, like we talked about last week. Meatloaf-
Barry Conrad
I'm writing this down, by the way.
Melanie Avalon
Okay . What's hard is that you don't know sometimes what's, like, kind of uniquely American until you're not... Until, like, like the meatloaf example. Like, I had no idea that, that, that they didn't have that really in Australia. Okay, there's one I learned the other day that's, like, unique to the US. It's an Asian... I think, like, aren't, like, fortune cookies, like, didn't we start those here? Maybe I'm wrong.
Okay, let me think. Okay, if I think America, I just think, like, McDonald's, pizza, even though that's Italian, but apple pie. Yeah, cornbread, all the, all the Southern stuff.
Barry Conrad
Or even, like, Fourth of July.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, Fourth of... Yeah, Fourth of July. W- I mean, like, turkey. I mean, that's like Thanksgiving, but, like, you could have the stuff that we had, like, at... Yeah.
Or do what? Hot dogs, yes, hot dogs, hamburgers. We should... Wait, have you, have you Google- have you, like, looked it up yet at all?
Barry Conrad
I haven't yet, but I'll, I guess I'll... I've wanted to ask you this in real time.
Melanie Avalon
I wanna see, ask it, what are... Oh, I would say chocolate chip cookies for sure. Definitely.
I think those were invented here. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. What are the top 10 most foods most evocative of the United States? Is that a good, is that a good question?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Um, and before I look at the answer, I wanna think of, see if I think of any others. I'm trying to think.
Like, I would look at the menu of, like, Hard Rock Cafe or, like, Chili's, or, like... Okay, let's see. Ready? Number one, hamburger. We said that. Number two, hot dog. We said that. We're on a roll. Number three, barbecue. Okay, yeah, definitely, definitely. Number four, oh, Barry's gonna like this one, fried chicken. Number five, apple pie. I said that, woo. Number six, New York style pizza. I k- mostly said that, yes. Number seven, buffalo wings. Okay, yeah, invented in Buffalo.
Barry Conrad
It's kind of a barbecue sort of. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
No, no, no. Buffalo wings are different from barbecue.
Barry Conrad
Oh, like chicken wings.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, wait. Buffalo, like buffalo wings. Like, yeah, like chicken wing. Yes, yes.
Barry Conrad
That's so interesting.
Melanie Avalon
And then number eight, oh, I should have thought of this, duh, macaroni and cheese.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh.
Melanie Avalon
Number nine, I said Thanksgiving turkey with stuffing. I said that.
Number 10, oh, pancakes with maple syrup. Okay, and then honorable mentions, I'm gonna speed through these. Philly cheese steak, yes. Corn dogs, corn dogs, yeah. Biscuits and gravy, yep. Chili, yep. Meatloaf, huh, there it is. Chocolate chip cookies, there it is. Reuben sandwich, Cajun jumbo, Tex-Mex tacos and nachos. Yeah, Tex-Mex, definitely. Key lime pie, definitely. That's a Florida thing. Pecan pie, I s- either said that or thought that. S'mores, yes, s'mores, definitely s'mores. Lobster rolls, Chicago deep dish pizza, po'boys, jambalaya.
Barry Conrad
There's so many things, actually. But also, we mostly got it right, so you're right.
Melanie Avalon
I know. I feel, I feel like that was... Yeah, I should have thought of the, the mac and cheese for sure.
It's so interesting, though. It really is, like... I feel most of the foods I feel like are reminiscent. They're like an ode to a different culture, you know? It just speaks to the mixing pot that is the United States of America. We're not original.
Barry Conrad
I really wanna experience funnel cake. I've never tried it.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, have that at the thing, and I will live vicariously through you. I had some the other night in my lucid dream.
Barry Conrad
How was it?
Melanie Avalon
It was so good. So the food in my lucid dream of recent, like, experiences has become better because I used to think I couldn't really taste it all that well, but then I was reading that actually your dream state can get pretty close to actually eating it.
And now that I know that, I can taste it better.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. How does it feel knowing that you're dreaming and you're enjoying the stuff that you don't normally have IRL?
Melanie Avalon
It's the best thing. I love it.
The second I realize I'm lucid, I'm like, "Okay, let's create a buffet right now and eat all the things." It's so great. But yeah, that's my little... I said I would give you another, a little tip trick. Do you want another tip trick?
Barry Conrad
Tell me. Tell me.
Melanie Avalon
So have you had the experience of you're in a dream, and then you start waking up, and you don't wanna wake up, and you're like, "No, I'm waking up"?
Barry Conrad
Yes, I have.
Melanie Avalon
So something that can work for that, and I successfully did this the other night, is you prete- It's called the void. That's what it's called, like when you're, like when you're waking up, is, like, the dream turning into the void. It's like everything kind of fades away and goes to black, and then you wake up.
So you envision yourself on a train going out of that dream and into another dream, and then you can actually just ride into another dream. And then you can just recreate where you were before if you want to, or you can just have fun in the new dream.
Barry Conrad
How did you, how did you figure that out?
Melanie Avalon
Because I've been watching lucid dream videos on YouTube for hours every night .
Barry Conrad
That's so funny. Just invent a train and ride from one dream into the next .
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so when you feel that feeling, just ride the dream into another dream.
Barry Conrad
Has it worked? Do you, do you feel like it worked?
Melanie Avalon
I did it the other night. Mm-hmm. And then I did an original. I actually used the, the train to go into a dream from, like, already being awake, so that was cool. That was my own invention.
Barry Conrad
That's awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Sorry, listeners, that I've been on this lucid dreaming kick . I just want everybody to know about it because we spend a third of our lives asleep, so what if you could actually turn that into the most... People, people... Think about how much people play video games.
You could be, you could be in a video game every night.
Barry Conrad
You could. How many hours of sleep do you have on average, get in on average a night, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
Let me check my Oura Ring. I probably average, like, eight and a half.
Barry Conrad
That's so good.
Melanie Avalon
I'm neurotic about my... I, like- Really support my sleep. Like, I have to have my sleep. Apparently my Oura Ring is in airplane mode, so it's not telling me. How about you?
Barry Conrad
You know what? I would... It, it's... I feel like I sleep well, but my body just wakes up naturally quite early. Like, it wakes up at, like, 6:00 AM. Like, sometimes even a bit before, and then I lay in bed for longer, but I, I go to bed earlier though, so, like, I start winding down at, like, 10:30. So that's pretty early.
So what's that? 12, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... Maybe, like, seven hours on average maybe. It's not, you know-
Melanie Avalon
This is interesting. Mine says that my daily sleep need is actually six hours and 46 minutes.
Barry Conrad
How does it calculate that?
Melanie Avalon
Well, and it says most adults need seven to nine hours. Over time, your body builds its own pattern of how much sleep it typically needs.
I'm guessing they look at your sleep and they look at your recovery and your heart rate and stuff. Oh, here it is. Let's see. The result. Okay, they take out really short or really long nights, and then they look at your normal sleep, and then that shows when your sleep is meeting your body's need, needs. And so for me... Oh, wow, that makes me feel better. I only need six hours and 46 minutes. Hmm. And I'm a late evening type. We knew that. "You are a rare late evening type. You need your sleep in the mornings." That's right, I do. "Don't feel guilty about it. It's good for your body and mind." Thank you. It tells me that I should go to s- guys, if you want an Oura Ring, that's where you can get all this information. So do you wanna know what it says my optimal sleep schedule is?
Barry Conrad
What?
Melanie Avalon
I should go to bed at 2:59 AM and wake up at 10:59 AM.
Barry Conrad
And what time do you normally? What time do you do?
Melanie Avalon
Um, a little bit later than that.
Barry Conrad
What does that mean?
Melanie Avalon
Just shift it all, like, two or three hours.
Barry Conrad
Like 5:00 AM?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm.
Barry Conrad
To, like, 1, 1:00 PM or something?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Whoa.
Melanie Avalon
I wish I was you.
Barry Conrad
Is... Doesn't it kind of feel, does it kind of feel almost like you're in your own reality? 'Cause most of the world is up and you kind of... I don't know.
And the world's already going. You know what? When you wake up, how does it feel? Is it strange?
Melanie Avalon
It feels like, you know how this led off and it said... Let me read it again. It said... Well, it said don't feel guilty. It feels guilty. That's what it feels like.
I don't think I'm ever gonna get over it. I wake up with guilt every single day. I really should work on this.
Barry Conrad
Why? Why do you feel guilty?
Melanie Avalon
Because the rest of the world is, like, up and doing stuff, so it makes me feel not prod- like, not... Like I'm doing something wrong. But I'm a, but I'm awake at night being productive.
Barry Conrad
Have you always done this, even-
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. And my mom is this way, too.
Barry Conrad
What about when you were, like, in high school and-
Melanie Avalon
High school, I mean, they make you get up really early, but on the weekends, yeah, I would sleep really late. And in the summer I'd sleep really late.
Barry Conrad
Wow. There you go.
Melanie Avalon
But really, I'm so jealous of you. Like, you have the circadian rhythm that I want.
Barry Conrad
Why?
Melanie Avalon
'Cause it's like, it's the whole, like, cliché of, like, the early productive morning person that's like, "Early bird gets the worm."
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but then you're, you know, wide awake when the world's kind of all gone to sleep, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I'm keeping the, I'm keeping the tribe alive. You gotta have somebody at, awake at night guarding the, the tribe. That was me back in the day. That's why, that's why we're like that, you know?
Somebody had to be a, somebody had to be awake all the time. So we developed, like, different, different circadian rhythms.
Barry Conrad
You were the hunter, huntress.
Melanie Avalon
I'm the protector.
Barry Conrad
Protector.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know if I'm hunting at night, but I'm protecting.
Barry Conrad
I think you should... I wonder if there's, like, a culture of, like, parties that happen at, like, four. You know, like, for people like you. I wonder if there's, like, events and things.
Melanie Avalon
Maybe, but I don't like, I don't actually, like, I don't like being... I like to be back by, like, 11:00 PM. I actually, I don't like being out at that time 'cause I like winding down and, like... If I, if I were to actually do something at, like, 3:00 AM, then I would be going to bed at, like, 8:00 AM.
Like, that would just be bad news.
Barry Conrad
Wake up at, like, 4:00 PM or something.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So yeah. So listeners, sorry for the tangents. Shall we jump into some fasting related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
So segue, my study actually doesn't really relate to this, but it relates to caffeine, which is something that relates to circadian rhythm, but this is not about circadian rhythm. So I had the highest of honors of interviewing Ben Azadi last week for his revised version of his incredible book, Ketoflex. And in that book, I... he mentioned this study, which I had to go find. This study is called Caffeine Intake Increases Plasma Ketones: An Acute Metabolic Study in Humans, and it was published April 2017 in the Canadian Journal of Physiology and Pharmacology. So this study, the question they were asking was, "Can caffeine itself increase ketone productions in humans even if you're not fasting or if you're not eating a ketogenic diet?" Or that's basically what it, what it found. And the answer was yes. Not dramatically, but significantly.
So the design of the study, it was 10 healthy adults. It was a randomized crossover design, which means that everybody serves as their own control. And they had three study days. So one day there was no caffeine. One day they had 2.5 milligrams per kilogram of caffeine. And one day they had five milligrams per kilogram of caffeine. It was after an overnight fast and it was with a standardized breakfast, and they actually had the caffeine with breakfast. So this was not looking at caffeine in a fasted state affecting ketones. It was caffeine with breakfast, how would it affect ketones? And they took blood samples every 30 minutes for four hours afterwards. And they found a very clear dose-response curve, and what that means is that basically the more caffeine you have, the more ketones it Led to the production of. So compared to no caffeine, the 2.5 milligrams, it, it increased their beta-hydroxybutyrate, BHB, which is a f- a form of ketones found in the blood, by 88%, and then the five milligrams increased BHB by 116%. So it basically nearly doubled their circulating ketone levels. So how this is happening, it's not necessarily that the caffeine, like, literally creates ketones. It's probably because caffeine blocks our adenosine receptors, which are when we h- when adenosine attaches to adenosine receptors, we feel sleepy. So caffeine blocks that, so then we're not, we're not sleepy. And it increases sympathetic nervous system activity, which is kind of like our ... We, we, we call it the fight or flight response, but that sounds like it's always a bad thing, which it's not. So it increases our energetic, alert, sympathetic nervous system state. That increases lipolysis, which is the breakdown of stored fat. The stored fat releases more free fatty acids into the bloodstream, and then the liver converts some of those fatty acids into ketones. So again, it's not that the caffeine is making ketones, it's that it's increasing the raw material available to the liver to make ketones. So let me keep going. They also found, interestingly, that the ketones went up, but the glucose did not change, so it didn't affect blood sugar levels. It did not affect triglyceride levels.
Melanie Avalon
It did not affect cholesterol significantly. So it wasn't like they were creating ketones because they were having a blood sugar crash.
It was likely because the fat metabolism increased. They also looked at the, uh, the potential of this for Alzheimer's disease because as we age, the ... One of, or one of the ... This is interesting, too, because I'm actually reading a book right now by Dr. David Perlmutter. It- he has a new book coming out all about neurodegeneration and the root cause of it and how it's likely metabolic and involves the immune system. But basically, the brain with aging and with oxidative stress and metabolic issues and all the things, it becomes, it can become, like, a little bit insulin resistant. It can struggle to use glucose or, you know, carbs, sugar for fuel. The brain can use ketones as an alternative source. They estimated in this study that the, the ketones from the caffeine in the study could potentially supply about 5 to 6% of the brain's energy needs, which isn't huge, but it is still a measurable amount, and that's just from, you know, having the caffeine with the breakfast. And they also suggested that combining caffeine with MCT oil might make it even more ketogenic. So to bring it all back together, basically, the study showed that just adding caffeine, so having coffee, does increase fat breakdown, does increase ketones. And by the way, it was not, like, a shocking amount of ketones. They said it was about the equivalent of having fasted overnight, but that was, again, when they were eating. So having the caffeine with the din- with the breakfast put them into a, quote, "ketogenic state" equal to having fasted all night, but they were eating. So takeaway, caffeine and especially coffee can be a really great tool in your arsenal to encourage fat burning, increase ketone intake. And so of course, this is-- I, of course, another reason I'm really happy about this is I, um, created my Glow Coffee line. I think coffee is one of the most perfect beverages to support your fast. And again, they didn't look at the coffee in the fasted state, so I would imagine the effect would be even more so if you had c- coffee while fasting as far as, like, supporting fat burning, increasing your ketones, all the things. So Glow Coffee, we, we created it because the beans-- We sourced beans that are super, super high in antioxidants, so you get a really high antioxidant potential from your, from your coffee. And then on top of that, it's organic, it's mold-free, it comes from a female-led initiative in Colombia. It tastes delicious. So that's at glowcoffeeco.com with the code IFPODCAST to get a discount. But either way, having that coffee, having caffeine in your fast or with your food can measurably increase ketones. So, Barry, what are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
So many things. I thought it was really fascinating that you said, so they weren't even fasting. They'd all had their, their breakfast first, and it still increased their ke- ketone levels and, and also what you said about the, like, even fat being released into the bloodstream. I don't know. It's just, I guess you, you always associate it with the fasted state. So this was really new for me to hear this.
This is awesome. Do you, do you think ... Like, were you surprised that they saw this happen after the eating? I mean, or, uh, I guess, like, it even makes you go, like, is it-
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I would've-- So it wouldn't surprise me in a fasted state that caffeine would substantially increase ketones. I would think in the fed state that it would just increase fat burning.
I, I was, I was intrigued to see the increase, that it increased ketones.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Like, is it doing more than just helping with the hunger?
It's really interesting to, to think that because it's, it's not true in the fasted state. And also, like, even the fact that, like, their blood sugar ... Like, it didn't, like, suddenly, like, wham, bam, crash or anything. Like, you know, like, their ... You, you said their glucose didn't really change that much, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. Like, honestly, I wish I, I wish I was a fast caffeine metabolizer because if so, I would drink so much coffee. Like, I don't drink a ton because I'm a, a very slow metabolizer, so it, like, stays with me longer.
But if I was a fast one, I would be having all the coffee all the time.
Barry Conrad
I drink so much coffee during the day, Mel.
Melanie Avalon
You must be a fast metabolizer.
Barry Conrad
Like, so much.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. How much is, how much is so much?
Barry Conrad
Two, two mugs before leaving the house and then, like, or before going to the gym, then maybe another two at least Later. So it's like... And I don't feel wired or anything like that.
It's just, I don't know, I just, it's weird. I don't get it.
Melanie Avalon
You're a fast caffeine metabolizer.
Barry Conrad
And alcohol, I think, as well.
Melanie Avalon
And alcohol. We got that in common.
Barry Conrad
This is really interesting, and, ah, I wonder if it, I wonder if it depends. Like, do you know what they were eating exactly?
Melanie Avalon
Let me see. That's actually a good question. Let's see.
Barry Conrad
'Cause I wonder if, like, that m- influenced, you know, the way the coffee worked. Were they having cornflakes or they having, like, eggs? So it like different... I don't know.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. So the standardized breakfast that they ate, it was... So it was designed to be the, the same for everyone, and it consisted of two pieces of toast with raspberry jam, one piece of cheese, applesauce, they actually mixed the caffeine powder into the applesauce, 100 milliliters of juice. So it was around 85 grams of carbs, 9.5 grams of fat, 14 grams of protein. And they fasted for 12 hours overnight before eating it.
They also hadn't had caffeine for 24 hours before, and it happened at 8:00 AM. So it's a pretty high carb... Yeah, so it's surprising, 'cause that's pretty high carb, and I would think that that would suppress ketone production. But despite that, they still had an increase of blood ketones. That's really interesting to me.
Barry Conrad
You know, I thought maybe like not a keto thing, but more of that kind of approach maybe would promote these effects, but like more fat- fatty and protein, but it's not, so.
Melanie Avalon
It would be-- I'd be really curious to see it redone with like a, yeah, like a low-carb diet and see if it would produce, like, more ketones. You know? Like would it be dose-dependent that way?
Barry Conrad
So black coffee, and also I wonder, 'cause I guess not all black coffee is made equal. I wonder like what's, you know, what brand of b- black coffee they had or does, does it really matter, or is it just black coffee in general does this?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, this wasn't coffee, so they... It was the caffeine powder that they put into applesauce.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. Caffeine powder.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Which I, I, I mean, I think it's promising 'cause that's just from that, but with- when you have it in the coffee form, it has all-- assuming you're getting like clean, organic, high-antioxidant coffee, you're getting all of these other benefits as well alongside it.
Barry Conrad
There you go. Great study, Mel.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you.
Barry Conrad
And another reason why we should keep drinking coffee.
Melanie Avalon
I know. I know. So friends, go to glowcoffeeco.com. All right. Shall we answer some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Yes, we should answer some listener questions. Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Okie dokie. So we have a question from Tanya. The subject is IF and anxiety, and Tanya says, "Thank you so much for your work teaching us about intermittent fasting. I look forward to every podcast and learn something every time.
I have been doing IF for about two months and initially saw great success. I lost about 10 pounds in eight weeks. That said, I went through a period of intense anxiety that kind of felt like it came out of nowhere, and I decided to stop IF for a couple weeks. As I started eating again throughout the day, my anxiety went away pretty quickly. I did some research and found out that this is common due to stress on the parasympathetic nervous system. What can you tell us about anxiety as a side effect while intermittent fasting? It's something I've dealt with my whole life, but now I'm trying to find natural ways to combat it. Ketogenic eating has certainly helped, but IF seems to increase the anxiety. Is this a phase that my body will get used to or something that I will have to manage ongoing if I plan to make IF a part of my forever lifestyle, which I do? Thank you again for all your work educating and helping this community."
Barry Conrad
Tanya, thank you so much for your question and for your honesty, more importantly. I think it's really important because, you know, we, we spend a lot of time talking about, you know, the benefits of fasting, the physical benefits of fasting. Mental, emotional wellbeing matter just as much as that. And I, I, I have to say, you know, something you did really well, instead of pushing through and ignoring what your body was clearly telling you, you paid attention to that and you experimented and, and tried to work on what worked for you.
You stopped fasting for a couple of weeks. You noticed your anxiety improved, and you started asking questions, which is great, and that's, that's what leads to the long game. And now, you know, could fasting contribute to anxiety? Uh, I guess in the short, the short answer for some people, I'm sure it could. It, it probably can, but I don't think it's because fasting is bad. I think it's because fasting is, is another stressor on our body, so... But it's also one that's beneficial when it's in the right amount for us individually. And I think, I kind of often think about fasting the same way as I think about exercise because exercise, exercise is a stress on our body too, Tanya, but that's how we get stronger. So if you're already running on four hours sleep, you're under lots of work pressure, you're dealing with your, your, your family stress, for example, you're not eating enough, for example, you-- and then you decide to do the hardest workout of your life, your body might probably go like, "Hang on, Tanya, this is probably too much." Like, you know, I think fasting can probably work similarly. And so for a lot of people, it's a positive stress that the body adapts to in a good way. But if someone has a nervous system, for example, that's highly sensitive to or, or tends towards anxiety, sometimes adding another stressor to that and piling on top of that could maybe even tip the balance. So, uh, I mean, one thing we do know is that fasting can increase, you know, adrenaline, and that's actually one of the reasons many people can maybe feel more alert and focused and energized. I feel that. But evolutionary, that makes sense to me. So if you haven't eaten and your brain doesn't want you feeling really sleepy, you know? It wants, it wants you awake enough to go and find that food. Like Mel was talking about being the protector she-- 'cause she's awake so much. But for most people- That feels like mental clarity. But if you're someone, Tanya, who's prone to anxiety and that same sort of physiological response can sometimes feel like restlessness or nervousness or, or heightened, and the sensation can overlap a bit. So is IF-- I mean, does that mean IF isn't for you? I don't necessarily think that. I-- One thing I'd, I guess I'd, I'd be curious about is whether it was the fasting itself or whether it's the fasting protocol, and if that's maybe not right for where you're at, you know, in your body in that point in time.
Barry Conrad
So there's a huge difference between, say, for example, someone doing a, a mild fourteen to sixteen hour fast versus someone doing consistently pushing twenty-two to twenty-three while also eating very little, sleeping little, living, living in a lot of stress. So sometimes it's not necessarily the fasting, Tanya, it could be the stress load. And I think that's something we don't give not as much credit to, but we don't look at enough, you know, 'cause stress isn't just emotional, it's also, you know, just life and, and physic- physically. So it's training is a stress, poor sleep is a stress, work deadlines are a stress, relationship struggles are a stress, travel is a stress, under-eating is a stress, you know, fasting is a stress. So our bodies don't necessarily neatly separate those things into little ca- categories that we can articulate. They all contribute towards the bigger picture.
So you also mentioned keto, your ketogenic eating, and that has helped your anxiety, which is great, and I found that interesting. I mean, that to me maybe says your body responds well to stable blood sugar, but maybe not to fasting windows that are too aggressive. If it were me, Tanya, I'd be tempted to play around rather than abandon it altogether. So maybe, maybe your sweet situation isn't gonna be a twenty or a twenty-three, maybe it's a fourteen or a sixteen. Maybe it's maybe varying your fasting length depending on what life's doing at that particular moment. Or, you know, one of the biggest things I've learned is that consistency, as, as I always say, like the long game, consistency beats intensity 'cause it's gotta be sustainable. You can't sustain intensity all the time, and there's no badge of honor, I think, for doing the longest fast if it comes at the expense of your, your well- well-being, mental well-being as well. And I really wanna encourage you, Tanya, to look at the fundamentals around fasting itself. So for example, what I mean by that is, are you eating enough, as I always ask, during your eating window, and what are you eating specifically? Are you getting enough protein, enough healthy fats, enough minerals in there too? Are you having your electrolytes element? How's your hydration, your sleep? I mean, sometimes what can feel like fasting anxiety can be compound- compounded by being-- feeling under-fueled, being under-fueled, dehydrated, or just tired. And because you've dealt with anxiety your whole life, I'd also give yourself permission to, give yourself permission to build your fasting around your nervous system and not around an expectation externally.
I think one of the biggest con- misconceptions, I think, in the health world is that if something works super well for one person, you can just post about it on social media or put it in a blog post or whatever, and this is the elixir of life. But that's just not the case. Everyone's different. Your genetics, your life circumstances, your physiology. So what am I saying?
Barry Conrad
Yes, some people can experience increased anxiety while fasting es- especially early on if the, if the protocol is more stress than their body can maybe handle, or perhaps if they've had dietary issues in the past that fasting can maybe trigger. That doesn't necessarily mean fasting isn't for you forever.
It could just mean your body's taking, um, or not taking, asking for a more gentle approach. And Tanya, I think the fact that you're, again, listening to your body gives you, gives you a, a advantage because the goal isn't to force yourself. Yeah, you're doing a great job, and I'd love to see where we're at today and, and for you to keep us posted. Mel, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
Okay. That was, that was amazing. One of the things that you said that I really like, and I think this is so huge, and you were, you were talking about the-- I'm paraphrasing, but you were saying something about, like, the experience of the sympathetic state and how, you know, if you're prone to anxiety, it can feel like anxiety, and to other people it might not. And I think about this a lot.
Like, so the sympathetic state, which is like the, you know, the, the-- we, we talked about earlier with the, with the caffeine. It's like the, the go mode, the energy mode, the-- it does, it is the fight or flight mode as well, but it's, it's the, the stimulated mode that you're in compared to the parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest. And you need both. Like, we oscillate between the two. And the feeling itself of the sympathetic state is so much of, so much of how we interpret that is just perception. So think about when you're, like, really excited about something in a good way. Like, maybe you see, like, your crush and, like, your appetite goes away and, like, you can't think and you're, like, your sweaty palms and all the things. Like, that feels-- that can be the exact same experience of somebody who's, like, going on stage and they're terrified and they interpret it as, like, fear and anxiety. So fasting by itself does encourage and put us into this sympathetic state. So like Barry was saying, if you're prone to anxiety, you could be interpreting it-- it could exacerbate your anxiety because of your, uh, because of how you are personally interpreting it as a anxiety type state. Doesn't mean it's not real or that it's not happening. It's just that because of your history with anxiety and how your body manifests anxiety, it could create more perceived feelings of anxiety. And it's interesting because in general, I think a lot of people experience the opposite. Like, they find fasting to be very helpful for their mood and as well as, like, anxiety and depression.
And I remember, like, talking about a lot of these studies in my book, What When Wine, but I looked up some more, more studies on IF and anxiety and, and I tell you this not to say that that fasting is not creating anxi- anxiety to you because I do think it is exacerbating it for you personally. I'm telling you these so that you can hear a different perspective of how it actually might be helpful for anxiety. So like one example, there was a 2020 16:8 pilot study. They found that a 16:8 intermittent fasting protocol improved depression and anxiety scores in adults with metabolic syndrome. Another one, so there was a systemic review and meta-analysis called About-- on fasting interventions for stress, anxiety, and depression. So it was published in 2021, and they found that people undergoing various forms of fasting mostly report a subjective psychological improvement. And the, uh, proposed mechanisms for this were that fasting may switch glucose metabolism to ketone metabolism. Oh, hey, we talked about that earlier, uh, which appears to have anti-inflammatory effects that could relate to mood benefits.
Melanie Avalon
It was only looking at 11 studies, though, and they also couldn't determine whether it was the calorie restriction or the fasting that was specifically leading to the improvement in anxiety or depression. And then another one, 2025, so more recent, this was looking at intermittent fasting and amygdala connectivity in healthy adults. So the amygdala is the part of our brain that is-- it's a more primal part of the brain that is involved in our, yeah, our stress response, our emotions, our anxiety, our, our, our sense of what is happening. So they were looking at IF and amygdala, and they found... Let's see. So it was 26 healthy adults, and they had a eighteen-hour daily time restricted eating regimen for fifty days, and they looked at their anxiety and depression scores, and they also looked at brain imaging, so they actually, like, looked at their brain. And they found that IF decreased stress, decreased anxiety, and decreased depression without increasing fatigue.
And then using the MRI data, they found that it did this by changing the functional connectivity of the amygdala and another part of the brain called the precentral gyrus. So there might actually be a literal, like, brain-body-based connection that is actually a reason that intermittent fasting might help with anxiety and mood. And then there was another two-month IF study on cognitive and mood outcomes that was published in August 2024. Uh, it's called "Cognitive Functions, Mood, and Sleep Quality After Two Months of Intermittent Fasting." They found that participants scored lower on anxiety, depression, and fatigue and higher on cheerfulness and energy at the end of the two-month study.
And then we have an animal model, so this was published in October of 2023, and it was called "Intermittent Fasting as a Potential Therapeutic Instrument for Major Depression Disorder: A Systemic Review of Clinical and Preclinical Studies." And it found that rats who fast- that were fasted for eighteen hours daily for three months showed improvements in behavioral markers of anxiety and depression, along with increased BDNF. Um, so BDNF is a neurotropic factor in the brain that's incredible for the brain. It basically is like Miracle-Gro for the brain, so it helps your brain cells grow and be awesome, um, and function better.
So-- oh, it also helps support neuroplasticity, which is the ability for the, the brain to actually, like, change over time in a, in a positive way. So basically, all of that is to say that there are a lot of studies showing that fasting is-- can actually be helpful for anxiety. And that said, like I said before, because the sympathetic state is a state of a stress response and has cortisol and is a mild hormetic stressor, definitely if you have preexisting tendencies, it may feel more like anxiety. I also-- when you were saying that-- 'cause you said something about... Oh, you were saying that when you start eating again, you know, more, like, throughout the day, that the anxiety goes away. That made me think that it also could be, like, a blood sugar drop.
Melanie Avalon
Like, it could be that you're, you're getting hypoglycemic, and then that can definitely-- the body, like, pump-- you know, the-- when the body senses a decrease in blood sugar, especially if it's, like, a drop like that, the symptoms that you can get to raise your blood sugar, like shakiness or racing heart or irrit- irritability, can definitely mimic anxiety as well. I, and I don't even wanna say mimic because it would be anxiety. Um, but it's just that the-- there's so, there's so much overlap there. So all of that to say... Oh yeah, and then lastly, it also could potentially be a, like, a, a time thing. It might be that you just need to-- that you're not truly fat adapted or keto adapted yet, and that once you do become that, that it goes away.
Which to your point, like, with your question at the end, you said, you know, "Is it something..." I'm paraphrasing, but you said something about, like, "Is it--" You said, "Is this a phase that my body will get used to or something that I will have to manage ongoing?" So you were doing IF for two months, and then-- So two months, I-- it could still for you take a little bit longer. I would suggest if you-- I mean, you're gonna k- you said that you wanna keep intermittent fasting in, so I love that. I would definitely work on the reframe about, you know, the awareness of the symptoms you're feeling. Are they actually just the state of being in the fasted state, or are they an additional anxiety on top of that? So you could track it. You could, you know, see, like, when does the anxiety happen? Does it correlate to certain fasting windows? I definitely say, you know, you can try shortening your fasting window and hopefully finding a protocol that works better for you, and then you could raise it from there, but basically-- or increase it from there. But basically just letting your nervous system adapt more, more slowly. And then, like Barry said, electrolytes can be a game changer for a lot of people. Definitely go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast. You can get a free sample pack at that, at that link, and we love them because they They have no problematic fillers. They come in, um, they have an unflavored one that, that is clean fast friendly. They also have ones in, in a lot of amazing flavors. Um, and then like Barry was saying, like the stressors on top of stressors can definitely exacerbate things. So looking at, I would look at your sleep, I would look at your stress load, do anything you can do there. And then I would just work on, since you have-- you're challenged by anxiety in general, I would work on anxiety, the anxiety itself. So whe- whatever modality works for you, and there's so many. I mean, I'm just like, I'm just like smiling 'cause I've done so many different, you know, podcasts on the Melannie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, and there's so many different modalities and things that can work for people, whether it's mindfulness or therapy or meditation or yoga or exercise. There's a lot of options out there.
Melanie Avalon
So I would find-- I would work on the anxiety like on its own as its own thing, reframe the anxiety with the fasting, do shorter fasting, and then increase accordingly, and yeah, just workshop it from there. Barry, do you have thoughts on all of that?
Barry Conrad
No. Th- Melannie, that was just so informative and amazing.
That was really, really helpful and digging into the science of all that, I think that's super, super helpful, and I think that, Tanya, hopefully you can take that and run with that ball, actually many balls, and see what helps. I think it's really, really helpful. And again, thank you so much for your openness in sharing what's been, what's going on, not just, you know, physically, but emotionally with you. So that's really, really great, and we love hearing these stories from you guys.
Melanie Avalon
Honestly, for me, I, I think one of my favorite benefits of fasting is just how incredible it is for my mood. Like it's so... Like I don't really get like mood swings like I used to before fasting.
I don't know if you've had mood, mood experiences.
Barry Conrad
I definitely do f- Uh, I've never really had mood swings, no, really, but I d- I definitely feel a lot more, and I've said this before, clarity and alertness and, uh, stability. Like I'm just able to think clearly, and I feel, I feel pretty steady most days.
So that's... Yeah, I'm sure the fasting helps with that for sure. And again, takes the, takes the decisions out of what to eat, which I'm sure helps my mood because if I was hangry the whole time, I'd probably be swinging from the roof, so.
Melanie Avalon
So very true. Awesome. Well, definitely, definitely keep us updated, Tanya. And yeah. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Okey-dokey, friends. So the purpose of this part of the show is the benefits of fasting are not just from the fasting, they're also from the eating or the feasting. So we like to pick restaurants to profile and talk about what we would order at them if we were ordering and breaking our fast. And by the way, I will say, by the way, if this part resonates with you and you like going to restaurants and exploring all the things and would like to meet other people who also love this, get on my email list for my Craving Dating app.
That's at cravingdating.com. It's not out yet, but we are developing it. So okay, Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
Melannie, today I have another restaurant from New York, and it's called Estia Torio Mio Los Hudson Yards, and I've sent it, the link to you. And this place is, I've never been yet, but it's widely regarded as one of the world's best, finest Greek restaurants.
It's built a global reputation for showcasing impeccably fresh Mediterranean seafood, which I know you like, with simple, amazing preparation, fully à la carte. Guests invited to choose their own fish and seafood from like market-style displays before it's grilled and served with just olive oil, lemon, and sea salt.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, this sounds great. This is right up my alley. Wait, you get to pick out the full fish, and it's like very deli- or like very simply seasoned?
Barry Conrad
And it's like the vibe is meant to be like contemporary, like an amazing dining room, open kitchen vibes, and ame- incredible seafood display. So yeah, let's look at this, this menu link.
Melanie Avalon
Do you like Greek food in general?
Barry Conrad
I actually do. I actually love Greek food. I haven't had any here yet, so I'm, I'm really curious to see what it's like.
Melanie Avalon
So perfect that you live in New York, which is like the foodie city.
Barry Conrad
I know. There's just like s- so, so many amazing cuisines, and I don't know how I'll get through everything, but... Oh, and if you scroll down-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have pre-theater and post-theater
Barry Conrad
... they've got, um... I guess we'll click on the à la carte, but if you actually scroll down, down to the bottom, you'll see some photos. It looks so good.
Melanie Avalon
On the à la carte?
Barry Conrad
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I saw pictures on the main page. Oh, wait. Well, I see their Instagram.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait. I love-- Okay, so are we doing the, are we doing the pre-theater menu, which is 4:30 to 6, or the post-theater menu, which is 9:30 to closing? Are they not open during the theater time?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, 'cause I guess it's, I guess during the theater time, it's people are, people are watching the show, but the à la carte is kind of just all the, I think all the time.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. Oh, right, 'cause those are set price menus. Oh, okay, I see. Oh, okay.
Barry Conrad
Let's go to the àl- à la carte.
Melanie Avalon
I just love that they, um, have a menu that starts at 9:30. This is speaking my language. That's great.
Barry Conrad
And I, I love at the top of this menu, it says, "Sharing food at the table brings people together and enriches the culinary experience," Kostas Spiliadis. So that's a good, good quote.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so it starts off with fresh fish, raw ceviche, and smoked options, and oh, look at what number one is. Well, that's surprising.
Barry Conrad
Oysters.
Melanie Avalon
Oysters, okay. So I... Oh, they have a raw fish platter that serves two to four people. So I guess it depends, like they tell you that day what they have for that platter, I'm guessing? 'Cause the, the sashimi is tuna, salmon, lavra- lavraki, hamachi.
Okay, I think... Well, I definitely want some salmon sashimi. Oh, and they have tartare. Ah. It depends what... Oh, wait, bigeye tuna. Let me look, let me look that up for mercury levels
Barry Conrad
You and your mercury levels.
Melanie Avalon
It's real. It's so bad.
Okay, let's see. Um, okay, big- bigeye tuna, significantly elevated levels of mercury. So I wonder if they could do me, like, a hybrid plate. Like, I... This is what I would ask them. Could I... Is there any chance, I'm not trying to be picky, but could I possibly get, like, the salmon sashimi and the salmon tartare without the tuna? Like, combine those and give me just... That's what I would want. Unless you want the tuna.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll have the tuna.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, never mind. Take that back. Then I will get the sashimi and the tartare. Um, how about you?
Barry Conrad
I'm gonna get the oysters for sure, a dozen of those East/West Coast season's best oysters. And, oh, this is really tough.
I love sashimi too, so I reckon I'm gonna get sashimi. And because it's fresh fish, it just goes down so easy, I'm gonna go for the raw fish platter. There's gotta be something on there that you could also pick at, I reckon.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder what it is. Like, I'm very curious. Now we are going on to Milos Classics. So is this where you... Oh, wait, no, fresh fish is next. Okay, so this is-
Barry Conrad
There's still some options of some sharing things and some single things there. You can see some-
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this is still, like, this is, like, appetizers, right? Yeah.
Barry Conrad
I think so, yeah. It's qui- I love this. Looks so good.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I definitely want the grilled jumbo, and they're using the word prawns. Okay, definitely want grilled jumbo prawns.
And, oh, I would be... I would like to try the port- the Portuguese fresh grilled sardines.
Barry Conrad
Me too.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. 'Cause you know, you know I still haven't had scar- sardi- uh, s- uh, sorry, sardines.
Barry Conrad
I'm sure that they have those at Whole Foods, Mel. I'm sure that- I'm sure they have them.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I, oh, they do. I mean, the, the tinned ones are, like, everywhere. I should, I should get some at, at... They're just always so salty. I wonder if you can get them without, like, all the salt in the canned version.
Probably. What would you like from the, the classics? We have to ask too what the special is.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I'm gonna, I wanna get the char-grilled octopus 'cause I love that.
Melanie Avalon
I thought you were gonna get that. Yep. I would, I want some of that too, so...
Barry Conrad
Yep. And also I'm gonna copy you with the, the jumbo prawns and also the Portuguese... No, actually, no, I'll skip the Portuguese fresh, uh, grilled sardines, and I'm gonna go for the lobster salad.
Fresh, warm lobster. I love lobster so much.
Melanie Avalon
I think I would've guessed your order exactly. Maybe for the whole menu.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm... Right now I'm like, "I've got everything." I knew you were gonna do the oysters, I knew you were gonna do, uh, octopus, and I knew you were gonna do the lobster salad.
Barry Conrad
Okay. And this is re- Yeah, this is, this... I love this restaurant. My mouth's watering. Okay, let's go down to fresh fish.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this is where you pick it out, right? Oh my gosh, this is so cool.
Okay, so fresh, so line-caught only. Whoa, they have... Do you think they have all of these a- all the time, or do you think it's just, just... Oh, market selection. Okay. So... Oh, okay. S- um, I have to ask, I have to ask ChatGPT something. You know what I'm asking it, right?
Barry Conrad
Mercury levels?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay.
Barry Conrad
Pretty cool, though, that you can pick out your own.
Melanie Avalon
I know. Oh my gosh, I love this so much.
Okay, so this says the lowest mercury choices from their potential... So great choices are the f- the deep-sea bay of Fundy lobster. I just wanna make sure that it's actually reading the list correctly. Okay, so the lobster, the, oh, the cara- the carabineros is actually large shrimp. Who knew? The sole, I knew that. Oh, the... Wait, the tispora, which is gilt head, gilt- gilt head sea bream. Isn't that the one that I was, like, wanting to try?
Barry Conrad
Yes, that's the one.
Melanie Avalon
That's the one, right? And then barbouni, which is red mul- red mullet. Lovraki, European sea bass. Low to moderate.
I don't want moderate. Pompano, generally low. Okay, so it says lowest mercury order. Dover sole and then the lobster, then the carabineros, then the tispora, which is the sea bream, then the barbouni, then the... Okay, so I'm gonna start at the beginning. So I would get... Is, is that the one that I really wanted to try? I, I did wanna try it before, but I don't know if it was, like, the original one that I was freaking out about. Okay, so I think I'm gonna get... Sorry, I'm, like, all over the place. So I would like the sole and, and some lobster. Okay. That took a while for me. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I'm gonna do the lobster and the, the sea bream.
Melanie Avalon
Good, 'cause I wanna taste that, so that'll be great. And I still need to, Barry, I haven't done it yet. I still need to buy lobster tails at Whole Foods.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, me too, actually, all 'cause I wanna learn how to prepare it. Should we shoot down to Milos meats, or do you wanna keep... Yeah, let's do the meats.
Melanie Avalon
Milos meats.
Barry Conrad
Looks so good.
Melanie Avalon
They are family-raised, no antibiotics, no added hormones. They're not organic, but they are Care certified, focus on susta- focused on sustainability. Oh, and regenerative practices. Okay, awesome.
So I would like the Brandt Farms Californian prime beef filet mignon. Oh, on a skewer. Hmm. Served with hand-fried potatoes. Hmm. So if I could get that not with the potatoes. As rare as possible. Okay, with the potatoes on the side, as rare as possible.
Oh, but we're also at Greek restaurant, so I feel like I have need to get lamb. Okay, also the Colorado prime lamb chops. Greek-style charcoal, charcoal-broiled lamb chops served with hand-cut fries. Do you want the fries too?
Barry Conrad
Sure.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Oh, they have a, a whole lamb rack? Okay, what are you getting?
Barry Conrad
I'm getting the whole lamb rack and the prime lamb chops.
Melanie Avalon
Can I taste it?
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Any of the sides? 'Cause they're quite unusual. They're not typical. Other than the chips
Melanie Avalon
They have one of the few foods I don't like besides oysters
Barry Conrad
What?
Melanie Avalon
Olives
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, I can't believe it
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't like olives. I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't think so.
It, y- as you know, it's very, very rare that there's a side that I like, but it did happen. It happened for the last two restaurants we did. Last restaurant had cottage cheese, and the one before that had... Did it have, like, shrimp or something on the side menu, I think? How about you?
Barry Conrad
Yep. I'm gonna get the fingerling potatoes and the steamed baby beets
Melanie Avalon
I actually would taste the grilled sweet onions, actually
Barry Conrad
Yeah
Melanie Avalon
You said what?
Barry Conrad
Steamed baby beets
Melanie Avalon
Have you ever cooked beets at home?
Barry Conrad
No
Melanie Avalon
Have you ever used them to, like... Okay, yes. They get everywhere color-wise
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I can imagine
Melanie Avalon
Like, the most vibrant, beautiful... It's so beautiful, and it's like why do we have synthetic food dyes when we could just get these colors from natural foods with health benefits?
Barry Conrad
Do we wanna do dessert? I'm going to the dessert menu. Looks amazing
Melanie Avalon
Don't tell me yet what you're gonna get. Do you see, how many do you see that you want? I wanna guess what you want
Barry Conrad
I see several things, but I'm probably gonna choose three
Melanie Avalon
Okay. You are going to get the chocolate mousse cake
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm
Melanie Avalon
Are you going to get the baklava because it's a classic?
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm
Melanie Avalon
And then cheesecake?
Barry Conrad
Uh-huh
Melanie Avalon
Look at that. Are you impressed?
Barry Conrad
So, I'm so predictable when it comes to food
Melanie Avalon
Or maybe I'm just very intelligent
Barry Conrad
But yeah, you are. That too. Would you have anything, there's, there's fruit there
Melanie Avalon
Well, I would obviously revisit something that I had had earlier in the night. So pro- I might have, like, some more s- probably, like, some more salmon sashimi, or maybe if I really like the octopus, probably something from, like, the appetizers
Barry Conrad
Right
Melanie Avalon
Do they have a drink list?
Barry Conrad
They should do, but I can't seem to see it anywhere. I know that they have a wine, extensive wine. Hold on a second
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, their wines are probably really good, I bet. Oh, they have multiple locations. Did you know that?
Barry Conrad
Yes
Melanie Avalon
They have one in West Palm Beach, so if I go to the Eudaimonia conference, and if you wanna come in November, we could go
Barry Conrad
Where's the wine list? Oh, here it is, I think. Here it is. Hold on
Melanie Avalon
These are all by the gl- Oh, wow. They have a lot of wines by the glass. Okay. I feel very confident that... Actually, you tell me, tell me what you want, and I will tell you based on what chat says
Barry Conrad
I would like to get something as Greek as I can get that, that is very similar to, like, a Pinot Grigio kind of vibe or, or Chablis kind of vibe, but it's not 'cause it's obviously Greek. So what would complement the seafood the most from this list, from the white wines?
Maybe a... What about the As- Acid- Asyrtiko Santorini old vines, Kanava Kryso Santorini. That one
Melanie Avalon
Sure. Which one?
Barry Conrad
So the one, two, three, four, five, six
Melanie Avalon
This is us trying to pronounce Greek things
Barry Conrad
The, the s- the sixth one down from the top of the wine, white wines
Melanie Avalon
Okay. The old vines one?
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm
Melanie Avalon
The Santorini?
Barry Conrad
Yep
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that looks good. Chat says, so I have chat trained to, like, look at a list and tell me exactly what to order. So it tells me I should get the Domaine Laflave Auxey-Duresses Chardonnay or the Vincent Couche extra brut champagne. I don't like champagne, nope.
Oh, or the Domaine Pernier Bonnaire Auxey-Duresses. Oh, same, same location, pinot noir. Okay, so it sounds like I'm gonna get the two wines from that, that one place, and they're lower alcohol, organic, all the things
Barry Conrad
So good
Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Okay. I wanna go. When are you gonna go?
Barry Conrad
I know. I need to go, and now that I have it, I'm like, "This sounds absolutely amazing"
Melanie Avalon
I'm really intrigued. I wanna, I wonder what it's like for picking out the fish. Like, how does it work?
Do you, do you think they, do they bring carts around, or do you, like, do you know? Do you know if you, like, look? Like, where is the fish? Like, is it at the front?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I don't know. They, they must have, like, a list that you can choose from. I don't know if they'll be carting it around, but may- I mean, maybe they would, but I can't imagine it
Melanie Avalon
But didn't you say that you, like, look at the fish? Wasn't that part of it?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, you, you pick it out, but I don't know if it's-
Melanie Avalon
Okay, here it is. There's a picture of all the stuff on ice
Barry Conrad
Ah, I love it
Melanie Avalon
Yeah
Barry Conrad
Great
Melanie Avalon
And, like, one of the Instagram pictures, you see, like, the fish on the ice. I feel like you pick it out. When you go, do you ever go, like, pick out whole fish anywhere?
Barry Conrad
But you know what? There's act- there's actually a place nearby called Green Point Seafood and Lobster, and it's very similar to this on, in a small scale. It's like, it's half a, a shop, like mark- market, you know, seafood, and then half of it is, like, a restaurant where they actually cook what's there. So I'm gonna go there on Friday
Melanie Avalon
Have you done that yet since, like, have you, since being in New York, have you gone and, like, bought fish and, like-
Barry Conrad
No, because fish mongers are so hard to find, so now that I've got one, I found one
Melanie Avalon
Well, Whole Foods, they have whole fish
Barry Conrad
I'm excited. I'll also gonna be having oysters 'cause they have, like-
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh
Barry Conrad
I can't. I'm excited. Stay tuned
Melanie Avalon
Well, amazing. I wanna go there. So add it to the list. All right.
Well, this was so fun. Listeners, friends, we hope you enjoyed your time with us. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, we would love to hear from you. Just go to ifpodcast.com, or you can email questions at ifpodcast.com. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode495. They will have links to everything that we talked about, all the studies, all of the things, and y- you can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike, and you can follow us on Instagram. We are IFPodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry_Conrad. I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
That's all the things. Thank you so much for tuning in once again, and we'll catch you next time
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week
Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week. Bye
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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