Welcome to Episode 435 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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STUDIES:
Effect of protein overfeeding on energy expenditure measured in a metabolic chamber2
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 435 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 435 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing really, really good. The sun is shining.
It is 11.30 a.m. here in Melbourne, and I just got some, actually before we started recording earlier today, I got some really exciting news. Well, it's exciting for me as an actor and singer-songwriter. I am going to the Tony Awards. I'm going to the Tonys.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. In the US, you got invited. Do they invite you? What happened? They invited you? Tell me more.
Barry Conrad
It's pretty crazy, right?
Melanie Avalon
When is that?
Barry Conrad
Yes, like June, I want to say June 6, I think, but it's basically, no, it's not June 6, it's June 9. It's somewhere around there, but it's like three days after I land in New York.
Melanie Avalon
That's so epic. What is up for Best Musical this year? Do you know?
Barry Conrad
It's a pretty stiff competition this year.
Melanie Avalon
best new musical oh this makes me feel i thought i was like on top of it with listening to all the new musicals but i guess not because i have not listened to buena vista social club dead outlaw
Barry Conrad
Death becomes her.
Melanie Avalon
Death becomes her, maybe happy ending, Operation Mincemeat. Wait, I don't know any of these. I, I, I, what? Okay.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Because you listen, you like to listen to some tracks, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah. Okay, like I've listened to revivals. I've listened to Sunset Boulevard. I'm so behind. Oh my goodness, that's so exciting.
Barry Conrad
I'm so excited. Basically, a producer that I've done a musical with in the past, he knew it was going to be in New York, and he produced Sarah Snook's, the show, the play that she's in called The Picture of Dorian Gray, and it's up for six Tonys, which is amazing for him, you know, to be an Australian producer. But he was like, you're going to be there at the same time? Do you want to come to the Tony Awards? I'm like, what? Yes.
So that's wild. Like the first thing, like Landon, New York, essentially, like, you know, first thing is like Tony Awards. That's crazy.
Melanie Avalon
Wow. Talk about welcome to New York as Taylor Swift would say. Right. I cannot wait. Please share all the photos and all the things. This is so exciting.
Barry Conrad
He also said to take it to the Sony Awards and the after party. So imagine what that's going to be like. That's next level, right?
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, that's crazy. Oh my goodness, I am so happy for you. I'm gonna be living, you better post so much stuff.
Barry Conrad
It's kind of going to be one of those things like, I don't know, like, you know, you kind of have to feel it out like just, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure I'll get photos for sure. But I'm going to see what the vibes like what like those are like massive stars.
Like, you know, I don't know what that's going to be. I hear you.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like though, I feel like when I see, when I watch like the Oscars and stuff, there's always like the pictures of like the celebrities like taking selfies and stuff.
Barry Conrad
That's true.
Melanie Avalon
You know, I feel like we've entered an era of like, there was like a, like a moment where it was like, I don't know. I feel like it's just a thing now.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think so too.
Melanie Avalon
But yeah, totally feel it out. Oh my goodness, so exciting.
Barry Conrad
If i could bring it plus one which i can't but if i couldn't do it definitely would be someone that asked to go because i know that you like that you love going to things like that.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, honestly, if you've been able to, I'm going to biohacking conference next year. I'm just thinking like I would go, I'm pretty sure. Just for one night though.
Barry Conrad
Well, you might get on the plane really tired because the after party, you might be like, oh, did I really need to do one night?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, but that's the thing, like when I do these one night things, it's always something crazy the night before and I'm always the next day on the plane, like, I'm actually usually pretty good because I have my glutathione, I have my NAD.
Barry Conrad
Also, to clarify, listen, when she's saying one of the things she's talking about, one like traveling situations, let's just like make that clear in case someone tunes in. Power through what to do these things.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, just just one night, Barry, you know, my one night traveling. I like to travel and like do the event, do the thing and then go home the next day, so I totally would go.
Barry Conrad
What were you saying about the biohacking conference? Tell me about it.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's next week for me. This is going to be so in the past when this comes out. Excited? Yeah, I really am.
Man, we, I mean, the timing is like just off if you had been, you know, a little bit earlier to the US.
Barry Conrad
I know but but guess what i'm gonna be there next year exactly so that's gonna be very very realistic very doable.
Melanie Avalon
I'm really excited. I'm excited to see, it's nice to see all these podcast guests and friends that I've made through the shows through the years and see them in real life and all the brands are there.
Yeah. I'm excited. It's going to be fun.
Barry Conrad
Do you get nervous when you go to things like that? Oh, not really.
Melanie Avalon
No, I did the first time. The first time I went, I was very nervous.
Barry Conrad
Really? What were you nervous about? Like, just like be like, cause it's the first time just.
Melanie Avalon
I was so nervous, I hadn't, yeah, because I hadn't gone to any conference really before and all these people that I like kind of know and the people I look up to, I was like what, you know, I went, the first year I went completely by myself, the second year I went, my photographer came with me, but the first year I went, I just went by myself and yeah, I was like, am I gonna like make friends? And I made friends like really quick and it was amazing, so, and now I just feel like I know so many people, it's gonna be fun, next year.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, is there anyone that you're really looking forward to meeting in real life that you've been meaning to? You haven't met yet?
Melanie Avalon
So I think the majority of the people that I want to see, I actually, yes, there's actually, there's a few. I just recently interviewed Dr. Michael Ruscio again. I had him on this show, actually. So he was on this show for episode 68, wow, in 2018. And then I just interviewed him again for the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast, but I've been listening to his podcast for way before 2018, probably since like 2014. So he, hopefully he'll be there. I'm excited to meet him.
And then I'm also really excited to meet, I just interviewed Kasia Urbaniak. She wrote A Woman's Guide to Power. It was fascinating. She actually, her background is as a dominatrix and also she studied to become a Taoist nun. What? Yeah. And she basically, she took, she's taken what she learned from that, the work as a dominatrix. She's noticed like the role of power dynamics in relationships. So she, the book is about how it applies throughout society, like not necessarily just like between men and women, like with everybody. It's a really fascinating book and I really liked getting to interview her.
So she's going to be there. So I'm hoping to meet her. And then it's a lot of people, I'm sure there's some other people I haven't met yet before, but it's going to be a lot of people that I already know and have met.
Barry Conrad
It's so exciting. Awesome. It's kind of like a high school reunion. You don't see everyone because everyone's busy doing their thing and they catch up with everyone.
Melanie Avalon
It's like so fast. And you're literally just talking to people like the whole time and you still don't even get to see everybody you want to see. And like the expo is just, you know, I don't know how many brands it is, probably like a hundred. And it's all these brands I know. So like I get to see them and like, you know, like things I love like Sunlighten and oral glutathione and you know, red light therapy. And yeah, I'm excited.
It should be, should be fun. So yeah, well, it's so exciting things coming up. I can't wait to hear about the Tonys. Cannot wait.
Barry Conrad
And I can't wait to see all of your posts and stuff about the conference.
Melanie Avalon
Fun times. Okay, shall we jump into things for today? Let's do it. So to start things off, I am bringing the study today and it's actually two studies.
Barry Conrad
Okay.
Melanie Avalon
But the reason I'm doing two is because I read one study and it was really interesting and then I went on a rabbit hole and I found something that kind of provided further context and clarity about the prior study. So the first study is called Effect of Protein Overfeeding on Energy Expenditure, measured in a metabolic chamber. And this study is actually from 2015, so it's a little bit older, but it was published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, which is like one of the main journals out there. And basically what they were looking at is they were talking about how people's metabolism increases when we overeat, but how is that affected by what you're actually eating, like protein versus fat? And how does that affect your body composition and energy, your metabolism and things like that? So they had 25 participants and they ate 40% excess energy, which is a lot. And they did that for 56 days, which is crazy because this was a metabolic chamber. For that, that's where you actually go in, it's so tightly controlled that they can actually measure your metabolism by the gases in the air, which is crazy because of how much carbon dioxide and stuff that you're exhaling. So they had people on 5% protein diets, 15% protein diets, or 25% protein diets. And they measured their metabolism, like their 24-hour metabolism and their sleeping metabolism on days 1, 14, and 56 of overfeeding and on day 57. Oh my goodness, that's so much overfeeding.
So what's really interesting is that for the low protein diet group, they were more so testing, they're calling it low protein, but it was basically excess energy from fat. So the ones that were not excess energy from more protein were excess energy from fat. And they found that the participants that had excess energy, primarily from protein, that it actually increased their metabolism, both 24 hours and when they were sleeping, but not for those that overate on fat. So I think this is really, really important because it goes to show the importance of the composition of our diet. And if you're overeating and you overeat on fat, your metabolism is not necessarily going to ramp up to compensate, whereas if you overeat protein, it does. And what's interesting is I don't know where I thought that the metabolism increase would have come from. I guess I would have thought that it would come more from like digesting the protein and just like burning more calories overall, but they actually found it was pretty specific to increases in like the liver and organs that are processing the protein. So that's where this extra energy processing actually came from. This boost in the metabolism actually came from. But what I thought was really interesting was so there's this study that shows that if we overeat protein, metabolism kind of goes up, but not if we do fat. But then I found this other study and it was called reduced adaptive thermogenesis during acute protein imbalanced overfeeding is a metabolic hallmark of the human thrifty phenotype. And so this was published in 2021 also in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
Melanie Avalon
And what's fascinating about this is what they were trying to look at was how do people's metabolism change when you're overeating specifically based on whether or not you're this thrifty or this spin thrift phenotype. And we talked about this in the past.
I think we talked about it most recently. We talked about it when like how does your body temperature change when you're fasting. And I was saying that there are studies on people who have a more thrifty phenotype, which is basically their body wants to more aggressively preserve their the weight state that they're in. Those people tend to get colder during fasting because their metabolism, their metabolism slows down more during fasting, compared to the spin thrift phenotype where they'll stay warmer while fasting. I think that's when we last talked about it. But what this study was looking at was the difference. And this was also using a whole room indirect climatry, which is a similar situation where you're in a room. So that's how they can really measure people's metabolism and see how things are changing. And they found, so the participants were put into different overfeeding conditions. So it was either low 3% protein, high 30% protein overfeeding, and then three normal 20% protein diets. And the participants were eating 200% of their normal metabolic requirements for food. So they were basically like doubling what they should have been eating. And they found that people's response in their metabolism varied. So some people, the people that were that spin thrift type, so the type that is not thrifty, they had a greater increase in their 24 hour metabolism by between 100 to 300 and two calories a day compared to the thrifty phenotype. So their conclusion was basically, if you're this thrifty phenotype genetically, even if you overeat, you have a limited capacity to actually compensate by burning more calories from that. What's really interesting about this, and I'll just say really quickly, this can really help explain why some people feel like they just look at food and they gain weight. Like whenever they overeat, they tend to easily gain weight. But some people just don't when they overeat, and it's probably a lot of it is genetic, which is really interesting.
And one of the things they did say was, where does this come from? And they proposed that it might actually come from your birth nutrition state. So babies with low birth weights, so if they're not getting full nutrition in the womb, or if they're just not as nourished in the infant state, then it might make them more likely to be this thrifty phenotype. So throughout life, their body might try to more conserve energy. And it goes both ways. So basically, people who have the thrifty type, they under eat. They are less likely to lose as much weight from it.
Melanie Avalon
And if they overeat, they're less likely to burn that off as well. So basically, it just makes it kind of rough.
If you're the thrifty phenotype when it comes to weight loss. So the reason I thought it was an interesting follow-up to the other study was because the first study was looking at the difference between overfeeding protein versus fat and it was saying that you know if you overfeed protein your metabolism is probably going to increase more but then it looks like there's this other layer as well which is what is your phenotype and it might be genetically some people are going their metabolism is going to adjust more if they overeat and others it's not going to. So yeah those are my my two studies. What are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
That's super, super interesting, especially like the, or even going back to the first one, you were talking about the 40% overfed. That's, that's a lot and for 56 days as well, and just how the, I actually didn't know that there was, that there was such a difference between the metabolism changing based on protein versus fat. So it's not just overeating anything. It's overeating in the protein, which I think that's even just marginally like ramped up metabolism, not just during the day, but even overnight while sleeping, it's pretty amazing.
And it confirms like, I guess not all calories are created equal when it comes to, I guess how our body processes and uses them, which is super interesting and the spin thrift versus the, who cares about these, these types, like the names spin thrift and thrifty phenotypes, it does sound like the thrifty folks have it rough. So that's like, you know, you're, and I wonder, it's so, is it nature versus nurture then cause you're talking about the baby, like how early, you know, how that can, does that help shape what type you are or do you think it's just completely a hundred percent genetic, like if you're genetically thrifty overeating barely moves the needle and your body like clings to those calories sort of thing.
Melanie Avalon
It's such a good question. It's like, it's like, because, you know, like I was saying, and you just mentioned, they posit that it might have to do with like the birth weight and the nutrition of the baby in the womb. I also want to know though, so like how much of that is like the environment of like, is it that everybody has the potential to be a thrifty phenotype, but if you're nourished as a baby that won't manifest, or is it just like genetic and some people are going to be that way, either way. And then we also know that like stress gets passed down through generations. So it makes you wonder like, could you inherit this thrifty phenotype from like stressors of like past generations?
Because I know they've done studies on like people who are like during war starvation times and how it affects their offspring and like we do see effects. So, and I will say though, I've thought about this for quite a while. It's like if you're going so regardless of genetic tendency, if you're going to overeat, I say overeat protein. Like, sorry, if you want to, if you're overeating and you really don't want to gain weight, like adding more protein is going to be the safest cushion against gaining weight. And the way I think about it in my head is kind of like when they looked at the difference between overeating protein versus fat. If you overeat fat, really our body has unlimited capacity to store fat. So you're just going to store that fat mostly. It's like unlikely that your metabolism is going to super hardcore ramp to burn it off like they showed in that first study. Compared to protein, we don't store protein. So when we overeat our protein, it's like, okay, what are our options here? The protein has to be processed. There's a protein has a higher thermo thermogenic effect than fat. So you're already wasting like 30% of your calories just burning the protein protein compared to fat, which has a much lower thermogenic, like it can be almost 0%. Like basically, you can just like store fat easily. So we're losing like 30% of or requiring like 30% of the calories and protein just to burn it. Now you have excess protein, what are you going to do that protein? Well, the body has to convert it into it can convert excess into glucose, it can do that. But that's a energetically costly process as well. So you're losing calories there. That's why they found you know, the increase of energy was in like the like the liver and stuff, like we're actually processing the protein. And then even then, so now you have, say you wait over your protein, and it gets turned into glucose. So glucose does not easily become fat either. So it's like a very like long chain to convert excess protein actually into fat stores, if that makes sense.
Barry Conrad
It does make sense. And it also, you know, I'm happy with this because, you know, for both of us, actually, we eat a lot of protein, which we, it's no secret on this podcast.
And it also has me thinking like, how can I even further, further personalize, you know, like my, my fasting and nutrition, like knowing that, that I'm actually going to be fine. Like I don't think that I, I definitely don't overeat on protein, but knowing that if I do have a surplus of it, it's not going to be harmful. I'm not going to be gaining all this weight. You know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And it's interesting because I know my experience of when I overeat protein, I get like super hot. Like I really feel it.
And to me, that's like a sign of either like the thermogenic effect of protein or my metabolism increasing. Like when I overeat protein, I really feel it. If I were to overeat just fat, I wouldn't necessarily, you know, feel the heat leaving my body. Same.
Barry Conrad
Actually.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it makes me wonder, though, if some people, especially with the genetic one, like, do some people not get as hot after eating as much, if their metabolism is more thrifty with everything, you know?
Barry Conrad
And also i want to help people i want you can test or i guess you probably know like you know if you're getting colder during the fast and things like that how do people know what's up there as well.
Melanie Avalon
I was thinking about that too, because I was like, hmm, what phenotype am I? But the thing is, this kind of gives people agency, I think, for the phenotypes.
Because even if I was a thrifty phenotype, I feel like the way I eat is so protective of metabolism and so protective of creating excess weight gain that I think even if I was thrifty, I feel I still feel like it would be hard to gain weight with the diet I follow, which is like the fasting every day, the one meal a day, and then eating the certain macronutrient choices that I make with high protein and then either high carb low fat or higher fat lower carb.
Barry Conrad
I also thought it's interesting that it shows the 5, 10, and 50% protein. I wonder what made them choose those numbers rather than higher. Yeah, interesting.
Melanie Avalon
I thought that too. Yeah, I thought about that.
I was like, I don't know why they chose the numbers they chose, but because if I think if I were to do studies like this, I would always work like in the extremes. Like I would want to make it really extreme because I think it would show. I think you could maybe learn more about mechanisms. So if I were to set it up, I would do like, I would want to have like somebody on the super minimal protein intake and then just add all fat excess fat and then the high protein I would want to make it like really high protein, you know.
Barry Conrad
I also think with the phenotypes and whatnot, I reckon some people, when they hear this or even if they read about phenotypes, they may say that they're a certain phenotype, but it could even be just down to like lifestyle choices versus the reality. Like again, we're real easy or whatever, it's not necessarily the type, you still can't like out phenotype your lifestyle and your diet, your food choices, you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
I'm so glad you said that because it's kind of like when we talked about that metabolism study where we found out that after age 60 people's metabolism doesn't really decrease that much. I mean, it goes down. It was what it went down by like half a percent or something a year, like something really small. I think people often like to do what you just said and like outsource their health situation to like, oh, it's genetics or oh, I'm, but there's so much agency you can take with your diet and lifestyle.
Yeah. There's, there's a lot of power. Even if you are thrifty phenotype, I think you, there's a lot you can do to, you know, maintain the body composition and the health state that you want to be in your body can't create excess fat from nothing. So it's just like a logical fat. Some people will say they're doing all the right things. Their diet, they're always in a calorie deficit, but they're gaining weight. And it's like, if you're actually gaining weight, you're not in a calorie deficit. It's like not actually possible logically. You might think you are, but your body, and maybe you're putting in less calories than you, you know, that should be a calorie deficit, but your body might be a just adjusting might be, you know, so, so basically, I think there is agency that can be taken with people's health and weight.
Barry Conrad
I love this topic because it's just so true, like just owning your choices, taking responsibility. A lot of people just don't know. They don't know what they're actually really consuming if they really knew what they were eating. Anyway, we could go on forever about this topic.
I know. I know. Awesome. Fine. I love that you brought two studies.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Thank you.
Well, it's funny because I found the first one. I was going to do it. Then I found the second one and I was like, Oh, I want to do this one instead. And I was like, wait, but I, I got to talk about both of them because they, they relate so well. They like provide more context.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And now, also, you're talking about the 60-year-old situation like metabolism. I actually mentioned that to a mate of mine. This is back when we did it, and he was like, no, I don't believe that. He was like, no, when you get older, your metabolism slows down.
But people think it's like a dire slowing down, but it's actually not. It's so interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Tiny, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Okay, shall we answer some listener questions? Let's do it.
So to start things off, we have a question from Amy and this is from Facebook. And Amy says, if our main goal is fat loss, is it okay to have water with lemon or a flavored La Croix in our fasting window? I know it may increase blood sugar, but is it low enough to not matter for fat loss?
Barry Conrad
Okay. Amy, how's it going? Hope you're having a good day.
Thank you for your question. I've heard this question come up a lot in different forms. It's something a lot of people wonder about, but don't always maybe vocalize. You're in your fasting window. You're trying to stay on track. You're trying to hit your goals. Then there's this voice that's like, wait, does lemon water ruin everything? What about my LaCroix kind of vibe? First off, good that you're thinking about this, the level that you're being intentional about it. When we're talking about fat loss, the big picture here, which we've talked about before, is insulin management. The whole reason fasting is so effective is because it's giving your body a break from those insulin spikes, which opens the doors to tapping into the fat stores. Anything that really significantly spikes the insulin. When food's coming in, when the body recognizes something sweet, food's coming in, during your fasting window, it can really disrupt that process. So lemon water, we're talking about it's a small amount, but yes, it's still going to spike your insulin. For a lot of people, that little splash can help them stay on track, especially if they have a lot of weight to lose and people could say it's better than nothing at all. But with LaCroix, or really any flavored sparkling water, just like lemon, and even zero calorie, it's going to trigger the insulin spike again. So it depends, I guess, what your goals are really at the end of the day. If you find you're getting hungrier after a drink and you start to crave food more, you've probably experimented with this before. Just go the black tea, the black coffee, sparkling water with no additives in there. At the end of the day, test it out, try it. But I mean, if you're asking, I really just do feel that it's better just to do the clean fast.
Melanie, what do you think? Because it's kind of one of those things where people say, I'm not eating, I'll technically still lose weight even if I have flavored water, but I'm just really on the side of the clean fast and just really keeping those insulin spikes to zero. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I'm on a really similar page. And I'm actually I'm glad the way she phrased this question because she said, I know it may increase blood sugar. And I think that's a really big misconception because we've talked so much about the clean fast. So it's not blood sugar that's actually increasing from these things. It's like Barry was saying it's the insulin response. So you can from the from like from the flavoring, you can have this insulin response that actually honestly, it actually will lower your blood sugar probably. But then that can create a hypoglycemic type response because then your blood sugar goes low, then you get a craving. So that's something that can happen with that goes to show how like these flavor things can, they can make the fasting harder.
So even if you're not bringing in calories, and this actually relates really well to what I was just saying. So it is true. You're not going to create fat from no calories like that just isn't a thing. But and it can still create an insulin response, drop your blood sugar, you get cravings, it would make the fast the fast harder. When insulin gets released, it actually can shut off access to your fat cells for burning. So you actually might stop burning fat. So it's, it's not so much that you're gaining fat from it. As it's messing, it can mess with you hormonally make the fast more difficult and make it harder to burn fat.
And at the same time, some people actually do fine with the water with lemon and even the flavored unsweetened, you know, on non caloric drinks. So if that's you, like you do you, we're just here to say what, you know, what we think in the long run makes things easiest. I mean, I know for me when I started fasting, I was doing, I was doing unsweetened drinks, even things sweetened like stevia and stuff. And I but then I slowly, you know, actually went into the clean fast approach. And I much prefer that it's so much easier.
I have so much more energy burn fat easier. Yeah, Barry said it well. It's like tough love. It's like, probably better not just going straight up with the completely clean fast. But you have to do you
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it's also one of those things where I have heard when people have asked me about fasting and I, you know, I told them about my protocol and they say, well, I do that. I just have my sweet and drinks, but that's fine. I'm happy with that.
And it's one of those things like you just got to do you like Melanie said, like, that's the way that they want to do it. And, you know, it's like, I've earned that sweet and drink. I'm not eating the rest of the time. It's like, that's totally up to you. But it's exactly what Mel said. It's going to make it easier for you. And who wants to be in pain and agony and like struggling through it, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. So it's been interesting, like the evolution of the show and being with different co hosts and different perspectives, because like, for example, because you know, Jen is Jen Stevens is very much about the clean fast. So everything is like a very strict like, no, no, no. But then like, for me, I agree, like I agree that it makes it much easier. And still at the same time, I think people got to find what works for them.
But it's probably going to be easier with the straight up, you know, clean fast. All right, shall we go on to our next question?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So Maris on Facebook says, why does my resting heart rate dip so low, 55-ish, when I drink a moderate amount of organic alcohol on the weekends? Is this good or bad?
Melanie, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
All right. Thank you so much, Maris, for your question.
Well, first of all, yay that you're drinking organic wine. Hopefully it's dry farm wines, which we love, which Barry and I were just talking about how... Wait, were we talking on the podcast or offline? We're talking offline, right? I think it was on. Was it on? I think. No, no, I think it was off.
Barry Conrad
Okay, it was off. Okay.
Melanie Avalon
I think it was off because I was saying that I would connect you to people, right?
Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, when Barry moves to the US, he can start ordering dry farm wines, which provides access to, I just, I'm so obsessed with them, they make, they don't actually make wine, but they, they go throughout Europe and some other countries, but a majority of it is Europe. Oh, they do go to places like South Africa though, because I've had South African wines from them.
Every time I have one, I, yeah, think of you, I think I've like saved it to have it with you. Oh, one time I accidentally opened it and I was like so upset. I don't know, I don't know if you remember that. I was like saving it.
Barry Conrad
We have to have it again, then.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I should go see if I have any right now that are from South Africa. In any case, I'm trying to think if I've had any from Australia. I don't think so because there's not.
Okay, I'm about to ask a very not intelligent sounding question.
Barry Conrad
Cool. Hopefully I can give you a very intelligent sounding answer. Go ahead.
Melanie Avalon
Australia, there's not high altitude, right? Is it all, like when I see Australia, I see like the bush. Is it like all like that, mostly?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, and there definitely are mountains for sure, like definitely, but yeah, there's a lot of flat.
Melanie Avalon
I just, I feel like this might be why, like the wineries there, it's probably a warmer climate usually for the wineries.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but we have, for example, we have the Barossa Valley, so in South Australia.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. I think I have. Okay. I have had some from them from there then. Okay. Because normally the warmer climate wines, wineries tend to create higher alcohol, higher sugar type wines. And so there's not that many dry from wine ones that are, you know, from that climate, but I have had ones from that Valley. So okay. In any case, but they go throughout and they find the wines and they test wines to make sure that they're organic, free of elk, sorry, free of mold, free of pesticides, low sulfites and low in alcohol and low in sugar. And they're amazing.
So if listeners are interested, they can get a bottle for a penny at dryfromwines.com slash I a podcast back to Marissa's question. So it's not really necessarily a bad or a good thing to alcohol is a depressant. So it can have the effect of lowering your, your heart rate. So if that's the heart rate that you have with the wine, it's not necessarily a bad thing. If it's, you know, just happening during the wine and you're not experiencing negative side effects from that, you might benefit because you would want a broader picture of what is happening with your heart rate, like the majority of the time, not just when you're having the wine. So this would be something where I would highly suggest getting an aura ring because it can monitor your heart rate and your heart rate variability. And it will actually show you your trends and you'll be able to see how your heart is doing all the time with the context of the wine.
But basically, is this good or bad? You can't really answer that unless you know what your heart is doing all the time. But going down from alcohol is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just because alcohol is a depressant. Do you have thoughts, Barry?
Barry Conrad
No, I mean, you put it beautifully like it is a depressant. So I mean, it's going to slow your nervous system down anyway. And your heart rate, it's going to dip temporarily. And it's not necessarily a red flag, but it's not like you're yeah, it's a win.
I think the bigger, the bigger thing is like paying attention.
Melanie Avalon
kind of just is, you know, like you need more data, you need more data.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly. Pay attention how you feel the next day, Maris, as well. And I mean, if your sleep is disrupted, do you wake up feeling foggy or anything like that? That's, you know, maybe pay attention to that.
I mean, your body's always talking and letting you know, but if you have any concerns, genuinely, as we always like to say is like, you know, see a GP and ask, but I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be concerned with that. It's going to dip after drinking. That's my thought.
Melanie Avalon
That's our non-doctor perspective.
Barry Conrad
Yes, not medical advice.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. All right. Shall we go to our next question? Let's do it.
So this question is from Christina and it's also from Facebook. Join us. By the way, my Facebook group is IF Biohackers. So you can just search for Melanie Avalon groups on Facebook and it should come up. And that's a great place to ask questions for the show. So Christina says, so she's struggling with sudden weight gain after years of fasting and maintaining weight. And then this wasn't Facebook. So Christina commented on that and said, yes, this. And then Jennifer commented on this and said, agreed. So a lot of women experiencing sudden weight gain after years of fasting and maintaining weight. Appropriate question, since we just talked about the changes of metabolism as we age. Barry, do you have thoughts?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. Christina, thanks for sharing. And like Mel said, it's very, very timely as well, this question.
And it's funny seeing those chiming in as well with the big ears. That's funny. And I want to start by saying, I understand. Even though I'm not a female, it can be frustrating. Any kind of stalling or anything like that or weight gain, you've been doing everything quote unquote right for a long time. Fasting, maintaining, feeling good. And then out of nowhere, something's different. The scale can creep up and whatnot. And your clothes maybe fit kind of different. But let's get into it because there could be a few reasons why. And most of them are probably more physiology than failure, I would say.
So first of all, I want to talk about adaption. So our bodies are really smart. So over time, if you're fasting the same way for months or years or same window, same eating, it's possible that your body could become super adaptable to that because it's more efficient at operating within that framework. So that's a good thing. But the downside is maybe one's triggered fat loss or maybe that's the new status quo. But if it stops working, it just could be because your body's adapting. And the second thing I always think about is maybe for women, hormonal shifts. I'm not a woman, but I've done some research. So let's talk about it.
Things like perimenopause, thyroid changes, stress hormone dysregulation, that could maybe cause the body to hold onto weight more easily, even if your habits haven't changed. So that's something to factor in cortisol stress. It can be sneaky. Chronic stress can really lead to water retention, which we know and increased hunger, disrupted sleep, even changes in how your body stores the fat. So if your sleep's been off, Christina, if your life's gotten more stressful for some reason, if you started doing more high intensity training maybe or under eating, that can spike cortisol as well and maybe could be conducive to that weight gain.
And then there's also the muscle mass. So, Christina, if you've been fasting for a long time but haven't paired it with regular resistance training, I'm here to say regular resistance training and high protein, it's so important. And if you haven't done that, it's possible you've lost a bit of lean mass along the way. So muscle is metabolically active tissue. So the less we have, the fewer calories are going to burn at rest. So that's why it's so important.
And it can slowly shift to your maintenance calories lower. And again, even like a small caloric surplus over some time. So I wouldn't panic. Don't panic. Don't panic. Your body's not broken or anything. It just needs a bit of tweaking. Maybe try switching up your fasting window for a few weeks if you usually do 18.6. Maybe try 24. Even something like an alternate day fasting situation a couple of times a week on the flip side of that. Something even more gentle, like a 14.10. Just to see if anything shifts, add in some strength training in there if you're already doing it. Focus on quality protein every meal. And maybe it might be helpful to track your intake for a few days.
Barry Conrad
Not obsessively, but just to see what you might be eating. We talked about this before earlier in the podcast where a lot of people just don't know what they're taking in on the daily. They think it might be one thing. But after tracking them, I go, ah, it's actually way different significantly. So yeah, I'd suggest that.
And at the end of the day, give yourself grades along the way. You've done the work for years for what you're saying. And it's about consistency. It's just this new season right now. Not a failure. Just adjust the inputs, I would say, and let us know how you go. I mean, Melanie, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
That was so amazing and comprehensive. That was amazing. No, I agree. I agree with literally everything you said.
So I think something that to, to key in on or look at more is the, the word sudden. So, you know, it's one thing if it's like waking after years and then it slowly starts creeping up, but if it's sudden, and I'm really curious what, what that actually looks like on a timeline for somebody, if it's literally like overnight, you're just start gaining weight. I would look at really acute changes that might happen. So like new medications, that's a huge one. If you started a new medication, they can have, they can, you know, really quickly affect your metabolism and make it so that you, what you're doing right now, even though you lost weight and maintain from it, now you're that same diet is going to lead to weight gain. And then like Barry was saying, like acute lifestyle changes, like your sleep, definitely hormones, you could get your thyroid check. So, you know, it could be that because of your lifestyle stressors or whatever it may be that, you know, you're becoming hypothyroid that can make people gain weight. Yeah. So looking at the lifestyle and then like we were talking about, like, like as we age, our metabolism actually doesn't slow down that much. And yet when you couple it with what Barry was mentioning about how we do lose muscle as we age, you know, those going together can make it, you know, make it to a state where your current diet that you've been doing that helps maintain your weight is no longer a weight maintenance diet. Now it's like a weight promoting diet, but there's so much you can do. So, and Barry mentioned really good examples. So might be time to try a new fasting approach. If you're doing a daily intermittent fasting, maybe you want to try like an ADF, ADF type approach where you do alternate day fasting, where you have some days each week where you do a complete fast or like a 500 calorie day. That, that, that would be the alternate day fasting approach, the ADF approach. You could try tightening your fast fasting window, or you could change, you know, what you're eating in your eating window. If you're not one of the nice things about people who, I mean, it depends what you're eating right now, but there's often a lot of really high potential steps that you can change and tweak in your diet to move the needle again. So if you're not eating all whole foods diet, I would definitely try that. If you haven't looked at trying specific macros, so either low carb or low fat, that's something to try via basically I would, basically there's a reason that this is happening suddenly. So there's either addressing it, like addressing the reason if you're, if your diet literally hasn't changed and your fasting literally hasn't changed, then addressing whatever reason that may be, whether it's the lifestyle, the sleep, the hormones, and then also the, you know, it's great because there's like literally so much you can do.
Melanie Avalon
You can address whatever the issue is, and you can also make changes in what you're eating, how you're fasting. So, but yeah, I didn't really appreciate the medication thing until I went on a, went on a medication at one point and I did suddenly gain quite a bit of weight. And I was like, Oh, I was like, this is, I get it now. Like you can literally take a medication and it will just like change your hormones and change your metabolism and you will be eating the same and you will gain weight. It's really, really interesting.
Of course, the flip side can happen. So people take medications and it makes them lose weight. But, uh, yeah. Very, have you ever been in a situation where you suddenly started gaining weight and you hadn't really changed stuff or can you, yeah, has that happened to you?
Barry Conrad
I don't think so. I mean, actually, it's when I started taking Creatine for the first time, actually.
Melanie Avalon
Oh the water weight gain
Barry Conrad
Yeah i was like what the heck is i don't want this is because i had to do something on camera that week is like this is not working for me man because it really like cause you to swell up. So i did find out there that apparently not.
All creating does that did you tell me that no someone tell me that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, and I'm not a creatine. Cynthia Thurlow knows a lot more about this, but there's different types.
And like Cynthia's creatine, she would always say that it's not going to make you have that water weight gain effect quite as much.
Barry Conrad
Because I do, I have asked so many guys since then and they all say, oh, that's just part of, that's just normal. That's what comes with it.
I'm like, okay. So you just carry a bit more weight, but it's not necessarily fat. It's just water retention.
Melanie Avalon
I'm glad you brought that up because we were talking a lot about like fat gain. It could very well be like Barry was saying, like a water weight thing.
And that could be from a new supplement, something new in your diet, a lifestyle choice. So the water weight thing is definitely a sodium intake.
Barry Conrad
Because it's really real Mel, and I'm sure that you know from experience as well, you can feel like you've gained a lot of fat, because you look noticeably different, your face is offier, it definitely feels like whoa, I've gained, quote unquote, weight, but it's not fat, there's a difference, you know?
Melanie Avalon
When you think about how much of our body is made of water, it really makes sense that we would see really big fluctuations just based on water. So the average person, for example, is 55 to 60% water. Adult men can be up to 65% water. So that's like a lot of water that can fluctuate around. That's like over half your body is water.
Barry Conrad
It's pretty wild actually to think about it like that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that there were over half water, it was crazy, it was really crazy.
Barry Conrad
I had a visual of like, have you seen the X-Men films? Not really.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Well, I've seen the first two or three. How many are there?
Barry Conrad
There's, I think there's like, yeah, I think there's three main ones with Hugh Jackman.
Melanie Avalon
Is there three and then there's Wolverine and then
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I loved, I loved X-Men actually.
Barry Conrad
Same. And there's a new one coming up, but I, at the end of the first one, this guy sort of like just turns it to water and like splatters everywhere. So I just had that visual when you were talking about 60%. Yeah, that's wild to think about, but Christine, we don't panic.
I'm sure that you're going to find the reason why Melanie put it so beautifully with those medications and hormonal shifts and whatnot. So we can't wait to hear what the update is.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, let us know. Okay. Shall we have our non, are you ready? Non-degestation, proverbial, but yes, proverbial simulation, breaking up the fast.
Barry Conrad
I'm ready to do all of the above. Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right, listeners, friends. So the purpose of this part of the show is because we talk all the time about the benefits of fasting and so much of the benefits of fasting come from the eating period. So this is where we showcase some restaurants that either we've been to or we'd like to try. We talk about how we would order at the restaurants so you can learn how to navigate restaurants, especially if you like to make modifications like me, and we celebrate food because we love food.
So shall we jump in? Let's do it. So Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
I'm actually really excited about this, well, I am every week, but this week in particular because this restaurant is in the city I am currently in.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Have you been yet?
Barry Conrad
I haven't. It's called Gimlet, and it's in Melbourne, Australia, listeners. I sent you the link there, Mel. Basically, this spot was housed in the 20s, 1920s. It's got an art deco building, chandeliers, leather boots, marble bars. So, Melanie, I reckon you'd like it.
Think, like, New York supper club vibes meets Euro Bistro, total old-school glam vibes. It's open till 1am of the weekend, which, compared to Sydney, let me just set the scene for you, because Sydney, a lot of things close so early, Mel. I don't know what it's like in Atlanta, but it's too early. Yeah, very early, actually.
Melanie Avalon
How early? Like when restaurants typically close? Like nine.
Barry Conrad
Like, 9.30, like, that's pretty early, like a lot of restaurants closed.
Melanie Avalon
around the weekends.
Barry Conrad
not much later because the kitchens usually just close their time. It's just I don't know why.
1am here, their wine list is award-winning. One of the other reasons I chose this, one of the best in the country. It's got a mix of Aussie and international bottles, and it's run by Andrew McConnell, one of Melbourne's top chefs. So, foods like euro inspired with the modern Aussie twist. Let's get into this menu. Let's do it. Nice. Okay, so you want to go to the Ellicott.
Melanie Avalon
menu. Oh, because the supper menu is a set price menu?
Barry Conrad
There's like no, there's not much on there.
Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, no, it's not a set price. Never mind. It's just okay. Just like a random menu. Are there things though on the upper menu that are not on the all the cart menu?
Barry Conrad
I haven't actually checked yet.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, oh my goodness, my mind is being blown. Autumn menu. Is it fall there?
Barry Conrad
It's a yeah the seasons thing again autumn yeah it is yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Oh man, my favorite season.
Barry Conrad
You like it, you like being cold.
Melanie Avalon
I love the fall. Yeah, it's such a beautiful season. You're going to be living in New York in the fall.
Barry Conrad
And now, apparently the weather right now is super nice. Well, we're in the future when this podcast comes out, but by the time I go, it's meant to be really nice weather.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I'm looking at the autumn menu in Australia. Appetizer. Hey,
Barry Conrad
I know what you're thinking.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, but okay, they're using the word appetizer, but then they're using entree as an appetizer as well. Okay.
Barry Conrad
And in the main course, yes, it's kind of different. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
and then from the grill. Okay, appetizers. So, oh, look what they have.
Barry Conrad
what's looking good to you from the appetizer slash entree.
Melanie Avalon
They have that beluga caviar from two weeks ago that was at the Michelin restaurant in Disney World at the Four Seasons. Okay, this looks really good.
So for the appetizer, while they have oysters, I never get scallops as my entree at restaurants. I think we've talked about that because it would never be enough, but I will get it as like an appetizer. So I'm torn between the baked scallop and hollandaise and very expensive, but the Giaveri beluga caviar. I guess it depends if I find out that I really like caviar.
Barry Conrad
Okay, what if they're like, you can have whatever you want. You don't have to pay for it. So would you get both of those? Would you just get one of those?
Melanie Avalon
I would get both, yeah. I would get scallop and caviar. How about you? I bet I can guess.
Barry Conrad
Yes, because I'll get a few things.
Melanie Avalon
I think you're gonna want the country sourdough. How did you know? Because I know you so well. And you want oysters. Uh-huh. How many more things do you want from that after that?
Barry Conrad
Well, I saw something else that I like and I don't often see it on menus and I like to make it as well.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay.
Barry Conrad
maybe i haven't told you this that i like to it's a really it's a really good snack.
Melanie Avalon
Well i know i know i have it between two and i know it's one of those i feel very confident that it's one of those i just don't know which one it involves like a bread type situation in it right.
Barry Conrad
I don't know, is that enough?
Melanie Avalon
It does. I know it does.
I know it's either the, it's either the anchovy toast or the the no-go frito. It's the, it's the Falma. The anchovy toast. Yeah. That's so funny. I was thinking like avocado toast in my head, but this is anchovy.
Barry Conrad
No, I love a good bread on the table. It's just my thing at a restaurant because I don't like, I pretty much 95% don't buy bread to have. So at a restaurant, I like a good warm, fresh, like hot, like sourdough on the side there.
The anchovy toast is very specific. It's got like, um, pieces of anchovy over like toasted bread. Oh, it's so good. And then I'm also going to get the baked scallop hollandaise. And you know what? I'm going to do the beluga caviar. We'll just need, we need extra of that because it's going to be good. I reckon it'll be really good.
Melanie Avalon
I just had a major epiphany for you, Barry. It's kind of, it's kind of grim. What?
Barry Conrad
Am I NPC again?
Melanie Avalon
No, MPC is not grim. MPC is just because you just mentioned how you're not always like a big bread person, but you do like having it.
You know there's this thing that happens very commonly where when people come to the US, they eat like the bread and stuff like they were eating and they actually start not feeling well from it. This is like the thing. You know this, right?
Barry Conrad
If you didn't know that, because, no, is it like a recent thing or no?
Melanie Avalon
No, no, this is such a thing. So like you will hear all the time and I just this is my mind is kind of being blown because I realize it's probably more like, you know, us people who realize this, but people will say here all the time, like that they can eat bread here, but then they go to Europe and they feel fine.
And they come back and it's like, and I and then on the flip side, I will hear from people in Europe, or like other countries, when they come to the US, they have the bread and they feel like horrible. It's like we are so saturated and glyphosate here that I really think that's what it is. I'm just saying when you come here and you eat all the bread like you've been eating or you eat like the bread you would have been eating, you might find that you feel differently. I'm just saying.
Barry Conrad
Well, I have had bread there before, I haven't felt necessarily bad, you know, maybe more full, but not like bad, bad. So maybe, I mean, I have a pretty robust stomach, I'm South African and we.
Melanie Avalon
You are kind of like, well, you're an NPC, so ignore me. Barry is a non-player character. He's not real.
Barry Conrad
I thought you were going to say when you come to the States and you start eating all the bread, you're going to be like going to gain a whole little weight or something. I thought you were going to say something like that.
Melanie Avalon
No, no, no. I'm saying like, I think you're going to like have a different, you might have a little, and the food in general here isn't as like healthy.
Like there's more additives and more, you might just have a slightly different, or you might be fine. I'm just saying it's kind of, it kind of goes back to the question earlier from Christina with like the sudden waking. I'm just saying if you come here and you suddenly experience a different sort of experience in your body with food, it's not you, it's America. Welcome.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I definitely know that the food's not generally, hey, I'm not Americans who are listening. I'm not coming for you.
I just know generally the produce is different to Australia and New Zealand, and that's all I'm going to say. But yeah, I definitely know what you're saying, Melanie, without saying it. I don't want the listeners coming for me.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, they won't come for you. I feel like we're all on the same team here.
It's kind of nice because we feel less... Well, I don't want to say it empowers victimhood, but they're going to appreciate that you understand that the cards are stacked against us here in the US with the food situation.
Barry Conrad
I'm going to be pretty simple. Well, pretty simply during the week, as you do as well, like, you know, my daily is going to be pretty quote unquote plain.
But when I go out, I'm just like, you know me, I'll just go for it. But I'm not going to go to a bad place, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. So, okay.
So we got through the appetizers. Let me go back to the menu. Okay, so now we are at the entree, which translation does not mean entree. It means, what does it mean? It means like second appetizer.
Barry Conrad
So basically, listeners, if you haven't pulled it up already, the entree, the main cause, and from the grill, I feel like I'm going to lump that into one main's deal for us. And I think that's going to be, what do you reckon, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
No, the entree is still it's an entree is still a pre main course.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I reckon some people still have that as like people with a small appetite might have that as their main thing, but not for me.
Melanie Avalon
I don't speak this language, okay, so you want anything from the entree section or you're lumping it all together so like okay so now we pick like a so there's not another course we're just we're just jumping to like
Barry Conrad
No, no, no, no, let's do the entree. For the entree for me, I love the look of the raw tuna. That sounds fresh, easy. It's a raw tuna, grapefruit, rock, samphire, and smoked creme fraiche. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but it sounds delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Can I just have a taste of that? You can. Okay. That's what I want because tuna, I get nervous with the mercury, but I will have like a taste I, I love tuna. So.
Barry Conrad
What about you? Do you like the look of any of those entrees?
Melanie Avalon
I think I'm just going to have a taste of yours. Okay. We got a lot of appetizers that I really like, so I think we're good there.
Barry Conrad
And then main course.
Melanie Avalon
and from the grill. Yeah, these kind of go together. Okay, I think I want
Barry Conrad
Okay, what's catching your eye?
Melanie Avalon
I think I will go with the Raven's Creek pork cutlet with on-dive and blood plumb, everything on the side prepared medium. And then I want some sort of steak, as Barry would say, situation.
So I think I'm going to go with the, you know what, I know it's fattier. I was reading all about Wagyu last night, and I know it's fattier, but then I was contemplating how it's actually really high in mono-insaturated fat. And I was like, you know what, maybe it doesn't feel quite as heavy since it's not as high in saturated fat. So I think I might get the Blackmore 9-plus Wagyu sirloin, 200 grams with house mustard and lemon, all of that on the side. I will have some of that mustard. Mustard is like the one sauce I actually will have a little bit of. I love mustard.
And I'll have that rare. And I might not even, since it's Wagyu and fattier, I might not ask for it blue. I might just ask for rare. Interesting.
Barry Conrad
Because I really just I really think you would think the steak here is quite different to over there.
Melanie Avalon
Well, well, here's the thing. Well, so the majority of the steak I eat, I think actually is Australian. Really? Yeah, because I order from ButcherBox and they work with a lot of Australian farms.
Barry Conrad
I can't wait to have ButcherBox as well. ButcherBox, my newie, all of it, because I keep hearing about all of these online.
Melanie Avalon
Maui Nui. You're gonna love Maui Nui. It's gonna be your jam.
You're gonna like, yeah, we should like, we should like propose to them some sort of, I know they already sponsor the show, but we should like, be like, listen, we'll like, do stuff for you. Like, create content. Yeah. MauiNuiVenison.com slash I have podcasts for listeners. It's the best, super lean red meat, really high in nutrition. And you are helping to save the ecosystem in Hawaii because there is a overpopulation problem with the invasive species of the axis deer.
And they harvest or they hunt them in a very sustainable and stress free way. They're amazing. Okay, so sorry, I keep rambling. What what are you gonna have?
Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the Blackmore 9 Plus Wagyu Sirloin 200g with house mustard and lemon medium rare and I'm also going to get the half southern rock lobster baked in saffron rice and sauce royal. That sounds really good!
Melanie Avalon
That sounds really good. That does sound good. It's got saffron. Oh my gosh.
Barry Conrad
And then also there's some veggies and things over there, do you like any of those?
Melanie Avalon
interesting i don't even know what this is what i don't know what. Oh, Pontarell, type of chickpea, Pontarell.
Barry Conrad
So, basically, it's like a variety of chicories, specifically a type of ball to chicory, okay, so it's like a green. It's like greens. Never heard of it before.
Melanie Avalon
So I'm good. I don't... I'm good. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I'm gonna get the kip kip floor potatoes smoked paprika. Oh my gosh, that sounds so good. Definitely doing that
Melanie Avalon
the side. Are you going to get french fries before you leave Australia and come to the U.S. and french fries like wreck you, they're not going to wreck you, you're like amazing.
Barry Conrad
fries? I don't know.
Maybe for the table, but I don't, because you won't have them, so I don't want to just smash those. I probably get the potatoes, and then I'll get, if I get another side, it'll probably be the squash.
That sounds nice. And then, there is a cheese and dessert situation here. Oh, wow. Does any of that look good to you, Mill?
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay.
So true story. So yesterday, was it yesterday or two days ago? Two days ago. Two days ago, I was at my parents' house and my sister had, they had, they had all these cheeses. Cheese to me is just the most divine addictive thing ever. I can't eat, I cannot have a bite of it because I will eat. It's literally like a drug to me, but it smells so good. So if you get cheese, I will like, I will appreciate vicariously through you. Oh, cheese. I just respond to those case of morphine's like, it's not good.
Barry Conrad
I mean, I definitely agree. Like, you know, it's when I'm at like a party or anywhere where there's cheese, I'm just constantly at the table.
Actually, Mel, did you see, speaking of cheese, did you see, I posted on my story like this charcuterie. Oh, I've got to send that to you. At the Beetlejuice after party, there was this like giant, entire table, massive giant, like you would... Of charcuterie and cheese? Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
What is your favorite cheese?
Barry Conrad
I do like blue cheese, I like goat's cheese, blue cheese. No, I don't know if we have. What's yours?
Melanie Avalon
Manchego
Barry Conrad
That's pretty good.
Melanie Avalon
So good and the reason, like I said, the reason it's so addictive for some people is because it literally has case of morpions in it, which are like morphine, the purpose is to bond the baby to the mother. Literally, the cheese was made to make you like, light up. So if you feel you can't resist cheese, it's not your fault.
Barry Conrad
What if you bought a small block of it and you couldn't have any more? Would you just have that block or you just don't?
Melanie Avalon
No, because the because the experience of having that cheese, and then not having that cheese, like that, it's that experience after the cheese that just feels so like that. We're talking earlier about the fasting and you know how if you're having flavor things during the fast, it can create like cravings and like a wanting feeling compared to it just being easy.
That's how I am with cheese. Like, I don't want to be in that state of existence. It's not worth it. So I'd rather just like think about it in my head.
Barry Conrad
Hmm, well, I'll have the cheese. Well, I'll definitely get the cheese service.
Melanie Avalon
Please do and I will smell it and appreciate it through you.
Barry Conrad
And then also chocolate fill mill fuel with blackberries and butterscotch anything chocolate. Basically, that's my jam Have to go with that
Melanie Avalon
Perfect. And I will get I'm probably going to have a round two of whatever appetizer I liked the most.
You know, I'm really intrigued by the one of the entrees, the hunter salad, it has duck on it. So like, do they have duck as an option? Like by itself? I might ask if I can get I'll be like from the hunter salad for dessert. Can I just get the hunter salad with only the duck? Wait, wait, let me see it. Okay, can I get the hunter salad with no salad, no quince, no wallet, no wall, sorry, walnut and no radicchio? Yeah, I'm sure they could do that. Okay, that's my dessert. The duck from the salad.
Barry Conrad
That sounds really, and then Mel, if you go to menu again and you click on cocktail, that's not just a cocktail menu. If you scroll all the way to the bottom, you'll see the award-winning Mindless.
I'm going to see if this actually is your jam.
Melanie Avalon
So cocktail, OK, what are you going to get?
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. Okay. So I am looking now, definitely have to get one of their, well, they do say here that their cocktail is, where is it? Having a look here. Their signature Gimli cocktail is apparently like next level. So I'm going to, because it's, again, trying a new place, I'm going to do that for sure.
And then a second cocktail I'm going to get would be, let's go. Here we go. Uh, having a look now. I'm going to do a Tommy's margarita. Let's see if they can make that spicy for me because it's, I can't see that there. And then I'm going to go down to the wines and scrolling into the wines. It's quite extensive list here. Sparkling champagne, wine, but the glass. Okay. Let's go. I'm trying to find a good, I'm trying to find a pinot grigio situation here.
Melanie Avalon
So basically this, wait, did you find a wine for you?
Barry Conrad
You know what I'm actually going to get as something, a bit of a plot twist here. I actually really like skin contact as well.
So there's also, there's a Ben Haines, Amber skin contact, Pinot Grigio slash Savian Blanc. So I'm going to go with that because that sounds quite nice and South Australia.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, have we talked about Sauvignon Blanc before? Have we talked about this? Do you know that there is really only one white varietal of wine that I don't like?
Barry Conrad
C'est vez blanc!
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Same actually. That's my least. It's down the bottom of the food chain for me.
Melanie Avalon
You just ordered it.
Barry Conrad
Well i think is it's a slash it's a skin contact pinot grigio slash having a block and i like i like skin contact guy actually and i actually tried that for the first time in new york. A couple years ago skin contact.
Melanie Avalon
Well, what's funny about that is, so for red wines, all red wines are skin contact. So like, it's like a white that's skin contact.
Barry Conrad
It's like, it looks kind of orangey. It's almost like orange. Yeah. So I'm gonna do that. That sounds good.
Melanie Avalon
Well, there's just skin contact. Oh, it's oh, it's a blend of peanut. Okay, that's what you got. It's a blend with peanut grease. Okay, very cool.
For me, I would have to look up. So if listeners are curious how I handle wine lists, I basically, I zone in on the region, the varietal. And then I look and see if it's organic. So there's a few different ones I would look up and see if they're organic. And then I would look up their alcohol content. But basically, the wines in the running would be Laurent, Chard, Chard, Chardigny, Bourgogne, Pinot Noir from Burgundy, the, the Lecorte to Lescon, Chiantes, San Giovanni, the Valentin Cab Franc from Goulburn Valley, Victoria, and the Oh, two more. Okay, oh, I love gamais. So they have a Daniel Boulon-Couvet. Melanie, what? Okay, I think I have to get that the coat to coat to Brulig. You know what, I might just have to get that and like, hope it's organic. But it's, it's my favorite. Well, I love France. It's bougoulet. Gamais is one of my favorites. And the name Melanie is in the title. So I think I'm like putting out putting out vibes that it's organic, because that's what I'm feeling.
Barry Conrad
So good. It sounds good.
Melanie Avalon
I never see Melanie in the name of a wine.
Barry Conrad
How good is that? I wonder if it's any good. It must be good, I reckon. I hope so.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, this looks epic, and so are you gonna go, you think?
Barry Conrad
Well, you know what? There's every chance that I could go because I mean, I've heard all about Gimlet. And so when I found this while I was looking for restaurants, I'm like, maybe I should check this place out.
Melanie Avalon
And how long are you going to be there again?
Barry Conrad
Well, if not, if not this time, because I'm here just for three weeks this time, when I come back for Destiny properly, like the season, two and a half, three months, then I'll definitely get to go then.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, can you get the Melanie wine, please?
Barry Conrad
And try it, and try it, yeah, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, no, you don't have to, but if you want to.
Barry Conrad
I'm going to make a note of it right now actually because I'm going to forget, so I'm literally writing it down when you go to Gimlet.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, excellent find. This was so fun. I hope listeners enjoyed our experience as well.
So okay, so the show notes for today's episode will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 435. They will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. And you can follow us on Instagram. I'm Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything can be very before we go.
Barry Conrad
No, we hope you enjoyed this week's episode everyone and thank you so much. We'll talk to you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, so fun. I will talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
Sounds good, bye.
Melanie Avalon
Bye! Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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