Welcome to Episode 468 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 468 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 468 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I am doing great today. Hey, everyone. I hope you're having an awesome week so far.
It is a chilly, icy, cold, freezing night in New York. I know it's your perfect weather, Melanie, but for me, I'm trying to stay bundled up here, having some water, maybe some wine later to kind of heat me up.
What is it like in ATL?
Melanie Avalon
Well, and by the time this airs, it will be April. So listeners, sorry that we're like so in the past. Today, it actually feels like April. I don't like it.
Barry Conrad
You don't like spring.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-mm. Today was like spring vibes, I just don't even like to talk about it. It's so upsetting.
Barry Conrad
The great thing about spring is that it's it's kind of a combination of like sunny days with a cool breeze, no?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. The sun. We don't like the sun.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I get you. I mean, it can be kind of sneaky. It can kind of be damaging and all those things, but, you know, in doses, right? Morning Sun is good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, it's a really good for you listeners don't listen to me at all. It's very healthy Like I wish I liked it. So that's where we're at with that
Barry Conrad
But how are you? How has your day been so far?
Melanie Avalon
I am good. I actually, so by the time this comes out, there's no way it's not going to be out by now because we're supposed to launch it March 3rd. So listeners, go get my glow coffee now.
Yesterday I interviewed our roaster, like production partner. So the guy who actually helped us source the beans, find the beans, do the roasting, his name is Martin, he's amazing. Listen to the episode with him which was episode 463. Barry, I learned so much about coffee. I realized I don't know much. Even though I'm making one, like I'm approaching it because like my modus operandi, is that the word? My like goal, my reason for making the coffee was to make the healthiest coffee, the highest antioxidant coffee, the cleanest coffee. But I'm not like a coffee aficionado, like coffee tasting, like knowing the difference with beans and roasts. And are you like, I'm like a wine taster, you know, not a coffee taster.
Barry Conrad
I hear what you're saying for sure. And also, OK, I wouldn't say the level that you are with wine, I wouldn't say I'm like that with coffee, but I know my coffee. I know good coffee, you know, so I definitely am. I wouldn't say a coffee snob, but if coffee is not good, I'm going to taste it. It's not something that's just like all coffee is all coffee. It's not.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I learned so much like I learned the difference. Again, it's embarrassing because I'm like launching a coffee, but my silent business partner, not Martin, but I'm another business partner in this and he's the coffee aficionado. So like he brings like the taste and like the appreciation of that. And then I bring like the health benefits of together. We're like a dream team, but I learned so many things.
Like I learned like the different, I didn't even know the difference between like commodity coffee and coffee and specialty coffee. I didn't know the two main types of beans. I didn't know how roasting. Oh, this was, I did rapid fire at the end and I was like, I asked him what was one of the biggest coffee myths and he said roasting doesn't like people talk all the time about caffeine content and coffee and that they think like roasting a certain way, you know, substantially affects the caffeine levels. And he said it, it doesn't really change it that much.
Barry Conrad
It really doesn't.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, not really. Maybe like a tiny bit, but it's really just about how much caffeine is in the original bean.
Barry Conrad
Hmm, so it's kind of like a lot of that is marketing or just hearsay and people latch onto that and then think that.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, essentially. It was so fascinating, but I felt even more amazing about this little coffee, especially where it's sourced from in Colombia. This completely female-ran like rainforest alliance initiative where it's organic and there's so much traceability and transparency. And then like I said, the main selling point for me is that we found these beans very high in CGA, which is the primary antioxidant in coffee, and it tastes amazing.
So friends, listeners, go now to glowcoffeeco.com. You can get it. It makes amazing presence for others. Oh, that's what I was going to say. The other thing I learned was that I didn't know there's like two different. So do you grind your own beans?
Barry Conrad
I kind of buy grounded beans already but I want to know but I want to get a proper coffee machine so I can do that but at the moment I've just been like getting ground like good ground coffee not like instant coffee or anything
Melanie Avalon
So the problem with buying it pre-ground is that it's more likely that it can become contaminated with mold and then it also breaks down the, like the antioxidants start degrading and also like the flavors. So like when you start, and Barry, it doesn't require a big fancy coffee machine, you just get a grinder and then it's like super easy.
But I realized that I'm doing it wrong because he said it's better to use a burr grinder, not a blade grinder. I knew nothing about this. So when you get a grinder, get burr grinder.
Barry Conrad
Visually, what does that look like?
Melanie Avalon
So, it uses, instead of blades, it uses two revolving abrasive surfaces. It's just a different type of way that it grinds it, but apparently it makes it much more, he was saying it makes it very even and it's just like way better.
So, I'm going to get one of those.
Barry Conrad
Bergen.
Melanie Avalon
burr like burly like like erin burr sir like that's a Hamilton reference so burr
Barry Conrad
Okay. That's good to know for, you know, not supposed to have ground coffee. I, Melanie gasped when I said it. So I,
Melanie Avalon
Barry, we got to get you off the ground, off the pre-ground coffee train.
Barry Conrad
Because glow coffee is be- in full beans, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and when I was talking to Barton, he was like, oh, he was like, I would only ever do, you know, whole beans. I was like, awesome.
Barry Conrad
Okay, well I can't wait to try it. I honestly can't wait to buy it and try it.
Melanie Avalon
I cannot wait to send it to you. I need to, I only have, like I said, like a few bags right now.
Barry Conrad
No, I want to buy it. What a support. Awesome.
Melanie Avalon
I'll send it and then you can buy it if you like it, which I know you will, because it's that amazing. It's also like the perfect fast in coffee. I'm going to stop talking about this, but it's so flavorful.
It doesn't need anything added. So like, you know, we talk about the clean fast, the importance of not adding like sweetener and creamer and things like that. Like this coffee is just so like bright and flavorful that I think it's like the perfect fast in coffee.
Barry Conrad
I'm intrigued and I'm excited so I can't wait to try it and he'll hear my review and probably see it as well.
Melanie Avalon
I'm excited. So yes, what's new with you?
Barry Conrad
Well, I have actually been, and this, I know this is airing in the future, but I've been doing a whole week full of restaurant week. I don't know if it's a thing in Atlanta.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. No, we talked about this on our mythical call because remember I was like, I was saying that it's my least, my least, it was always my least favorite week as a server.
Barry Conrad
And remind me again, it's because you don't.
Melanie Avalon
Because how do I say this?
Barry Conrad
in a way that's...
Melanie Avalon
How do I say this in the kindest way possible? So basically, it's, I mean, it's great as a patron because you get to try all these restaurants and the restaurants will have special menus. First of all, it's a lot of like set price menus, special menus, which tend to not make the servers as much money compared to a la carte. And unless it's like, you know, some Michelin, you know, really intense restaurant. And then it's a lot of people who don't normally go out to restaurants, so they might not realize the importance of like tipping.
And like, it's a different clientele and it's busy. So basically you're going, going, going, lots of tables with lower, you're making less per table and people are not always, and then it can be really busy. So sometimes people are upset. I don't want to put all these negative vibes out there. Restaurant week is great. How's it been for you?
Barry Conrad
Well clearly it's bringing back some memories that you'd rather forget.
Melanie Avalon
Some drama.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, some trauma. But honestly, it's been incredible.
And yeah, honestly, and maybe in a future episode of the show, I may need to choose one of these restaurants as one of our future restaurants, because honestly, Mel, the food has been amazing, like so good. And I've had some really good steak that I cannot wait to tell you about that you love and you need to come here to try.
Melanie Avalon
Why was it special steak? Which, by the way, I hope we get to the question today about steak. Is that today's? We have a really good question. I've been dying to answer about steak.
It might be next week, I don't even know. OK, wait, so yeah, why was it special?
Barry Conrad
But it was like a knife through butter. It was so tender, such good quality.
And I haven't tasted steak like this in New York, actually in America. So it was just really, really, really, really, really good and tasty and perfectly done the way I like, which is medium rare.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, you paused. I was like, is he gonna stop at medium? Am I gonna have to leave the room?
Barry Conrad
It was really, honestly, it was amazing and yeah, I'm still going. There's still one more to come tomorrow.
Melanie Avalon
So how many did you go to? How many restaurants? Are you going every night?
Barry Conrad
Not even a three so far, but I have one more to go.
Melanie Avalon
Wow, that's impressive.
Barry Conrad
You know what? It's been really good. It's like out every second night or so, which is...
Melanie Avalon
That's a lot. I hope that would wipe me out.
Barry Conrad
I'm picking up my, what did you just say? Like, you know, Barry Conrade going out thing. I'm picking it back up again. Now that I'm settled here.
Melanie Avalon
Did you, again, not to date us egregiously, did you watch the Super Bowl?
Barry Conrad
I loved the Super Bowl so much and also go Seahawks let's go because I'm a new fan to Seahawks and they killed it and also Bad Bunny's performance is so good. What did you think of it?
Melanie Avalon
I didn't watch it. I was at a party, but I didn't watch it. I literally did not watch it.
They're like, who's playing? And I was like, the seagulls and I don't know. I was so proud of myself for the seagulls. And they're like, no, it's not, it's not that. And then they were like, it's a made up bird. I was like, Okay, well,
Barry Conrad
That's so funny. So what, so you went to a Super Bowl party, it was probably playing there, but you didn't watch it. You were like having fun, drinking, chatting, eating.
Melanie Avalon
Lots of drinking, yes, lots of chatting, lots of yeah, we did watch the halftime show. So
Barry Conrad
What did you think? Do you like bad bunny?
Melanie Avalon
I had no idea who he was. Yeah, he was fun.
Barry Conrad
So good. I love the.
Melanie Avalon
way it got got popped up. So.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, Lady Gaga popped up, you know, just made a little cameo.
Melanie Avalon
So yeah, actually, it was at my sister-in-law's house. She is Puerto Rican. So she was really excited.
Barry Conrad
So what kind of did they have any trinkets there that were good or is it just like more of like a drinks?
Melanie Avalon
there were trinkets. I was I actually, actually, this is what I did. So fun fact. So at home, I only drink dry from wines, you know, that I order. But I have this goal in my head of finding some good alternatives at Whole Foods. But I'm always so hesitant.
Like what if I go? Because my criteria is so intense. Like what if I buy a whole bottle of Whole Foods and I don't even like it? I can't even tell you how many times I've done that. I like buy the bottles that Whole Foods I'll taste it I don't like it and I give it I like give it away. So I use parties as a chance to like buy all these ones I want to try because then I'm bringing it for the party and then I can try it. So I brought like six wines from Whole Foods that are they were all organic, low alcohol.
Barry Conrad
Were they good?
Melanie Avalon
I liked, they were all good. There was only probably one that I would integrate into my life because it tasted like dry enough and low alcohol enough.
Barry Conrad
Hmm, that's a huge deal because usually you don't usually like to stick to your gun. So this is a good thing
Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes. Well, I'm also not going to bring like half a case of dry from wines. It's way too expensive. So
Barry Conrad
But also speaking of wine hacks, you just reminded me when I went to watch the Super Bowl at this bar, one of the friends group that I have, she is American and I do a lot of self types with her and she brought her own wine. I think it was like organic wine. She's like, I can't drink what's at the bar, so I'm just going to drink this.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, I would have been her friend so much. Did they care? Did they pay her a corkage, or did they charge her a corkage fee?
Barry Conrad
I don't think anyone, it was so packed that they would not have ever been able to see it here. And also not even just that, Mel, she has another thing in common with you.
Melanie Avalon
Was she hiding it or did she like just had the bottle?
Barry Conrad
She was hiding a bottle in the bag, but it was like a water bottle kind of thing, kind of like a...
Melanie Avalon
Oh, oh, well that's what I do, like every... That is like what I do. You're like in juice bottles.
Barry Conrad
But that's not all. Guess what else she has in common with you.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, what's her first name so I can give her a shout out.
Barry Conrad
Erin, E-R-I-N-N.
Melanie Avalon
Erin, let's be friends. Okay, what else does she do?
Barry Conrad
She's obsessed with Disney.
Melanie Avalon
Aww.
Barry Conrad
And she's going to.
Melanie Avalon
and Taylor Swift.
Barry Conrad
I don't know about T-Swift, but she's going to some Disney thing at the end of the month. Well, it's in the past now, but it's, yeah, some Disney week or something like that.
And her family traditionally go every year. So she's like, loved Disney, like you.
Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. Erin, let's all be friends, shall we?
Barry Conrad
And I told her about you and when she brought it up.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. That's amazing. Love it. Okay. Shall we jump into some fasting things?
Barry Conrad
I think we should jump right in.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Do you have a study to start us off with?
Barry Conrad
I sure do. And the study I'm bringing today is called Hypercaloric 16-8 Time-Restricted Eating During Eight Weeks of Resistance Exercise in Well-Trained Men and Women.
And this study was carried out by Daniel T. Blake, Cody Hamane, Chelsky Pacheco, and colleagues at California State University Center for Sport Performance in Fullerton, California, USA, and it was published in 2025 in the Journal of the International Society of Sport Nutrition. Now, for this study, the researchers, they weren't trying to restrict calories, as an intermittent fasting study, they weren't trying to restrict calories to lose weight or anything like that. Instead, they focused on looking at time-restricted eating in a calorie surplus.
Melanie Avalon
I like this. I like this idea.
Barry Conrad
Meaning participants were eating more calories than they burned on purpose, on purpose while they did resistance training, which I loved. So that kind of might sound different because it's not something that we often come across with studies.
Well, I haven't yet, but what they wanted to see was whether doing time restricted eating like a 16.8 fasting style, for example, whether that could work even when the goal was building muscle and strength rather than losing pounds. So here's how they sort of set this up. They recruited 17 healthy, well-trained adults, 10 men, and 7 women. And they're all experienced with training, like strength training, and already were in good shape. So everyone was eating a super high protein diet, so about 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day, which is pretty good.
Melanie Avalon
That's high for, because I mean, it's not high for me, but it's high for, they don't normally do that high in studies.
Barry Conrad
And a sidebar, I also recently heard that the RDA has even now increased from the point eight. Oh, has it? Yes. So we'll have to dive into that in a future episode, but... Yeah, let's circle back.
Yeah. So 2.2 grams of protein per kg of body weight per day, and they were instructed to eat about 10% more calories than they needed. So this would probably... This wasn't shown in the study that I could see, but I'm assuming for some of these men's up to 3,000, 4,000 calories, and then even eating more than that. And for women, maybe 1,800, 2,000 calories, and even more than that amount. So it's quite a bit. So they also all followed a supervised resistance training program four times a week for the eight weeks. And they split them into two groups. One followed a 60 and eight time restricted eating pattern, meaning they consumed all calories for the day inside eight hours. And they started that eating window at least one hour after their workout. And the other group, the control group, consumed the exact same number of calories and the exact same protein intake throughout the day spread over a more sort of typical eating schedule. So what was different was when the calories were consumed. That's it. So across the eight weeks, both groups increased their muscle strength and muscular endurance, meaning they got stronger and could work through more reps. That's really good news for anyone out there, listeners out there or new listeners, old listeners, trying to build strength by lifting weights. However, the group doing that time restricted eating saw a slightly smaller improvement in their squat maximum strength. So about four kgs less than the control group. And for most everyday listeners, that's not massive, but I guess it's an interesting sort of nuance if you really care about the strength gains themselves. And when it came to body composition, both groups managed to increase fat-free mass. Both groups managed to increase fat-free mass. That's essentially just muscle, but there was a noticeable difference in fat gain. So the group eating outside the eight hours, the control group, they ended up adding around 1.4 kgs more fat mass. Oh, wow. Yeah, those in the 16A group didn't gain that extra fat. So that suggests that even sort of like a calorie surplus with heavy training, intermittent fasting, eating in that way may help keep extra fat gain down while still allowing that muscle to grow. And another sort of practical point, Mel, that I found here was, and I think people might find relatable, is that the group in the fasting model, they reported lower subjective daily energy levels at several points in the study. So feeling less energetic during a big training and eating program could matter to people doing those long workouts and juggling busy life like most of us and probably most of you listening. So the way I sort of relate back to what we talk about on the show is, you know, first it's another reminder that fasting isn't, it's not just a skinny fat tool.
Barry Conrad
It's about timing. And in this case, it was tested in very different contexts. People eating more calories than they burn, trying to put on size, trying to put on strength, and it worked just fine for muscle growth. So people listening who care about body re-composition or athletic performance might find this really encouraging and even while they were training super hard and eating all this food, the group eating all their food in a restrictive window gained less and wanted fat again.
They gained less fat and still put on muscle. So yeah, again, it's just another example, Mel, of how fasting doesn't automatically mean you lose muscle, like, you know, as you always, you hear a lot. So it depends on the context, like total calories, protein, training. So for anyone out there who lives a busy life and they want to maintain the strength while eating in the window convenient, for your own reasons, this study gives you hopefully some practical evidence that intermittent fasting can support muscle growth and limit your fat gain. Mel, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
So you said there was a 1.4 kilogram difference between the two with the fat mass.
Did the time-restricted eating group, the fasting group, did they gain at all and then the other group just gained more or did they not gain?
Barry Conrad
they didn't gain.
Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to see. So it says the post-time point. Is that at the end?
Because it does say that the model coefficients indicated significantly lower body fat in the TRE group at the post-time point. Does that mean they actually lost body fat?
Barry Conrad
I couldn't decipher that, but I do know that they, from what I can understand, are saying that they did not gain the extra fat. They could have lost, but either way, it's so crazy.
Melanie Avalon
Both groups increased fat-free mass. Okay, so yeah, so it looks like if they gained anything, it doesn't seem to have been that significant, but it was really significant the amount more of fat that the other group gained.
I was wondering what it was going to be, especially since they both saw, you know, increases in muscle. I was like, what is it going to be with fat? That is still powerful because it, you know, basically goes to show that, you know, if your goal is body composition and in particular making significant gains, you have to go into a surplus to do that. And so by combining it with a fasting pattern, you're really going to minimize gaining fat alongside that muscle. Because people are always like, can you gain muscle without gaining fat? They're like, no, but you can get pretty close. I would even argue, I don't know what they were eating exactly. I bet if you super controlled, like the macronutrients as well, but still did a surplus. So basically, if you did like a that amount of calories, but, and it couldn't have been this because of the calories that you mentioned and the protein numbers that you mentioned, like it'd have to have been much higher protein to do what I'm about to say, which is if you basically had even more protein and not fat, like I can, I bet you could even, I think it's possible that you could gain muscle and not gain any fat in a surplus if you're resistance training. And it's like mostly often protein, which is not sustainable, but like, it's a short term thing.
Barry Conrad
Pretty crazy.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so this was 2024. When you do your training, do you oscillate between like the gaining periods and the like the leaning out periods and you know the whole I'm so like overwhelmed by the whole that world where it's like where it's very controlled and it's like now I'm in a gaining phase and now I'm in like a leaning out phase and like historically is that something that you engage in?
Barry Conrad
I don't really engage in that, at least not deliberately. And I have stayed pretty lean like the whole, like for a while now.
I don't sit at a bulk up. It's the whole thing where I'm in my bulking phase, my dirty bulk, my bulking. And now I'm in my cut phase where you're just cutting in.
Melanie Avalon
Those are the words. Those are the words I was supposed to be using. I was like, what are the words?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't do that. I do think, not think, I do know that if I want to go extra leaner, I can just do that with my macros. You know, I can just, you know, cut up more carbs or whatnot to eat more protein, but I don't set out to like, let me just put in a bulk because it just, it's, it's kind of kind of productive because you're still doing the same training for me personally and still eating the same amount of protein. So I don't know unless you're trying to compete or something like that.
Or you really want to gain extra, extra, extra, extra muscle. And you don't know how to do that without eating just extra carbs or extra fat. That's the only reason I can imagine why you'd put on fat. Speaking to your point before of what, you know, what are they eating with the protein? You know?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm like same as what you said. I've Again, I'm not a big I'm not like at the gym doing all this stuff But just in general like approaching life I find I find it much easier to manipulate what I'm eating the input rather than the output like the exercise Side of the equation just for me personally
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, you can't out train, it's the whole cliche, you can't out train a bad diet and you can't out train any diet really, unless you're Michael Phelps or an Olympic athlete who, you know, your expenditure is just inhuman, it's just like so crazy that you can kind of eat whatever, but most people don't live like that, you know, not one's listened to this podcast, you know, everyone's busy and have a limited amount of hours in the day to exercise. So a lot of it comes down to the way we eat and what we eat and when we eat.
Melanie Avalon
So true. So true. So awesome. Fine. Thank you. Shall we jump into some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Can't wait, let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Alright, would you like to read the first question from Mary?
Barry Conrad
Sure will. So Mary has asked, she says, post-menopause, should you shorten your fast? What do you think?
Melanie Avalon
So this is good timing because I recently interviewed. It has not aired yet because the book is not out yet.
But shout out to former co-host Cynthia Thurlow. She is releasing her new book, which is called The Minipause Gut, Beyond Your Microbiome to Reclaim Your Health in Midlife and Beyond. And so, okay, first of all, love Cynthia. She is absolutely wonderful. And I cannot recommend this book enough. It's a really fascinating look at all of the symptoms of menopause and how in particular they connect oftentimes to the gut microbiome. So like, the gut brain access, the gut ovary access, all of these different accesses or whatever the plural form of that word is. What was really interesting is, did you know Barry? Cynthia has shifted her take on fasting a little bit.
Barry Conrad
Really? How so? What does she think now?
Melanie Avalon
So, she used to be more encouraging or liberal with fasting longer and menopause, and now she thinks maybe going for like a 12-hour fast is better for women in menopause. And the thing is, it's not so much... I don't want to put words in her mouth, but this is what I took away from reading the book and then interviewing her about it. Not so much because of issues with the when you're in menopause, you actually no longer have to worry. It's not as much of an issue about overstressing your body while having a cycle and potentially overdoing it. Not because fasting itself is overly stressful, but just because especially women can have a tendency to overrestrict. So, if you're not eating enough and fasting, that can get a little bit wonky with your cycles and things like that. So, that's something to be aware of anyway when you're not in menopause. So, in theory, like when you're in menopause, it's actually, I don't want to say safer, but you can fast longer without any worry of it affecting your cycle.
And then on top of that, menopause can lead to a lot of issues with like insulin resistance and hormonal issues. So again, fasting longer can really help that. She thinks, and I agree with this, is that something that's really, really important, we're talking about the importance of protein, especially for aging women and men, like the older you get, the more protein you need. And she thinks it can be difficult to get enough protein in the window. So, by doing not fasting as much, you can more easily get the protein. And it's funny, I was asking her, I was like, we're going to have to circle back when I'm in menopause and see if, because I just like, I really think I'll be fine. I could be wrong, but I really feel pretty confident that I will be able to eat all the protein. But to answer Mary's question, from a hormonal standpoint and like an insulin standpoint, and all of those things, I personally think like it's fine to fast whatever you've been fasting. However, and this is post menopause, I guess I was lumping together menopause and post menopause, but I'm going to lump them together. You just have to make sure that you're getting all of your nutrients and protein. So if you need to lengthen your fast to get enough protein, I do think that's really important. If you are getting enough protein in your window though, again, not a doctor, but I think it's okay, and potentially beneficial. So kind of like a double sided answer there. What are your thoughts, Barry?
Barry Conrad
Well, Mary, I'm really glad that you asked this and I'm also the first to say, Mel, thank you for answering this so thoughtfully because as a man, I fully respect this, this is not my lived experience. So take this sort of, take more of a supportive perspective, not hormonal expertise, but what I, what I have learned from doing our show and listening to so many women in the community, I guess, is that menopause can be a season from my limited understanding where flexibility becomes more important.
And speaking to your point, Mel, about what Cynthia shared, that does make sound sense if you're not getting enough protein into that shorter window then. And with any time of life, menopause and other times included, have a longer eating window, a shorter fast. But if you are to echo what you said, again, not a doctor, but perhaps that's right, also, you know, seek, seek your GPs advice, please. Hormones are changing, stress levels can be different, recovery really does matter. So if a longer fast, for example, starts to mess with your sleep and energy and mood and drains you and you can't eat enough, all those things, it could be a sign that, you know, to maybe pull back and to have shorter fasts and there's no prize for white knuckling anything. So yeah, maybe it could be beneficial and it's not, it's not about going backwards. It's just about listening to where you're at right now. And I assume or hope it's just temporary and you'll come out on the other side. And who knows, Mel, you'll have to let me know what it's like on the other side of it.
Melanie Avalon
I know. And also, I realized we're both doing this. So she asked about post-menopause, and we're kind of answering four menopause. But to distinguish, because I did this too, the menopause phase would be the phase when I think the fasting would actually be more beneficial, because you're having these fluctuating hormones, and everything is going haywire, which reading the menopause gut, you will understand why. And then things might become a little bit more stable after that.
And then I do think the older you get, potentially the harder it would be to get a protein, which by the way, something to really, really, really support this would be digestive enzymes. That's really going to help you digest your food, assimilate the protein, break it down. So I will recommend my AvalonX Digest. Go to AvalonX.us. Use the coupon code I have podcast for 10% off. That can be a game changer for digesting more protein. I didn't answer your question. Oh, you said you said let you know how it is on the flip side. Will do. Will do. Oh my gosh.
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. It's going to be interesting conversation just to, yeah, because I don't, well, I haven't spoken to any females in my life about the during like menopause and postmenopause. So it'd be interesting to talk to like a good friend about it, you know, and to see what that's like in real time.
If that's something that you'd want to share, I don't know. It's pretty personal.
Melanie Avalon
It is? Well, no, I mean, one thing about podcasting is, I don't know, nothing bothers me to share anymore. I feel like I've overshared the entirety of my life for a decade now to like thousands of people. So open book, open book.
All right, now we have another question. Damon says, and this was from Facebook, which by the way, you guys can join my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, and we would love to hear questions from you there. He says, I want a gym buddy. How is the half marathon training going? How is that going? And by the way, wait, let me write down right now in my calendar when it is because I always ask you, when is it?
Barry Conrad
It's April 26th.
Melanie Avalon
So it will be, so when this comes out, it will be in 20 days and three weeks.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's coming up soon, either way. So how is the training going? Well, first of all, Damon, cheers for your question. And, you know, it's always good to hear from Damon.
He always comments in the Facebook group, doesn't email as well. He's real big supporter.
Melanie Avalon
Damon is awesome.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, first off, I feel you're in the gym buddy situation, you know, having someone there to train with can make a big difference. I think Mel talked about this perhaps last week or the week before about accountability and some people need that accountability. And if you're someone who likes that motivation or having someone else there that when things get tough, it's good.
And that does tie into what I, you know, as they say, into the half marathon situation as well for me, because Damon, this is really reminding me that doing hard things, and this has been odd consistently with a solo or with the buddy, it does build, build you up more than just fitness. And so the short answer, David, it's going awesome. The honest answer, it's been going awesome and it's really tough. So I'm still, well, actually, as Mel said before, it's April, if this is April six, 20 days away, this is really soon. So it's getting close to race day. And right now I'm still in that phase where the training starts to feel, it's starting to feel really real because I'm kind of the halfway point, not just getting fit anymore. So it's going great. Most of the weeks, the structures look, looks pretty similar. So I found that routine really helps me Damon. So I usually run three times a week. One of those is like a longer run, which sort of now is just about eight to 10 K's that's one where you're sort of building that endurance and spending time on your feet a lot and mentally pushing through the pain. Cause you're, it's like blister city, blisters, blisters, blisters on your feet all the time. It's not about that speed. It's about patience and pacing and teaching your body to gain that distance. And then there's a speed run, which, and if you already know this, I apologize in advance, but if you don't, the speed run is where you're, it's probably the most uncomfortable one because you run for about 30 minutes or so and you vary the speed up and down. So some sections are super easy. Then you push it up into almost a sprint for a few minutes and then back to easy again, so that your lungs are on fire. Your, your legs really feel it. And it's really rewarding though, because it sharpens you and you kind of like fight or flight, like let's go, it's so good. And then the third run of the week is a recovery run. So that's pretty self-explanatory. And I take it pretty easy. I can almost walk fast or jog it and that's more intentionally relaxed, no ego pushing or anything. And yeah, the other three days, Damon, it's pushing 10 in the gym, you know, like weight training, strength work in between. So it's really, uh, I'm feeling it at the moment, but I'm having the best time. And you know, some days I don't feel like lacing up and the run feels super heavy, but there is something pretty satisfying. I reckon about, you know, committing to something new to a plan like this and watching my body change and feel it adapt to this new program. So it's pretty good. I'm having a good time. Watch the space.
Melanie Avalon
I am just in awe. I shouldn't say I can't, language is really powerful.
I have no interest in doing this. That's amazing. It's very inspiring. And I really, really appreciate you framing it. So honestly with, you know, how it's really great and also really challenging. And I think it's really important that we do challenging things. So you've said before, this is because you have not done this before, right? You have not.
Barry Conrad
I've never done a half marathon, I've never done a full marathon, so this is new territory for me.
Melanie Avalon
What made you decide to do it was there a moment that you decided to do it.
Barry Conrad
You know, when I moved to New York, a bunch of the Aussie crew here were doing these marathons. It's a big running community.
And then I kind of thought to myself, you know, a few years ago, I had this lung situation, which I don't want to harp on about, but it really kind of stopped me on my tracks and I physically couldn't even speak, let alone walk fast or run or anything. I had to rehabilitate myself. And since that moment, I gave up sprinting, really, and all and all kinds of running for a long time. And this is kind of a bit of a sort of like telling that moment I've moved past it and pushing my body again. So that's really meaningful in that way, rather than let me just do this half marathon and like, you know, bro it up, you know, it's more like meaningful for me.
Melanie Avalon
It'll be exciting when you when you do it.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, and I feel good about it too. I feel like I'm gonna do a good time. I'm working hard and I reckon The way I'm tracking now, I reckon I'm gonna do okay. I reckon yeah
Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome. Okay, and we actually have one more question from Damon as well. Would you like to read it?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, we do. Double trouble.
Here we go. David asks again, could you guys go over what meat is okay to eat? As Melanie would say, quote unquote, blue and what meat needs to be cooked all the way. So, Melanie, will you let us have it?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, Damon, we've had this in the lineup for weeks and I've been so excited to finally get to it because I learned so much because I have wondered this. This question has haunted me.
Mostly I think about why is it okay to eat steak, rare or even blue and not chicken. Why is that? And I never really looked it up and I did and now I know. So here are the answers. Okay, so by the way, to define blue, I mean like very rare. So like as minimally cooked as possible. Meat that is generally safe to be eaten blue slash rare are the types of meat that are whole cuts where the bacteria lives on the outside of the surface, not potentially inside. So that is things like anything beef steak related. So ribeye, filet mignon, sirloin, you know, anything strips, lamb, lamb chops, lamb steaks, venison, wild game, bison. So it's a lot of like red meat and with all of that, as long as the outside is here properly, the inside can actually is essentially safe. And that is because the type of bacteria that is on that type of meat lives on the surface compared to things like so you can kill it with like just searing the outside. Another reason for that also is that beef muscle is very dense as well. And so the bacteria doesn't really like go all throughout it. But for chicken, they carry a different type of bacteria. They tend to carry salmonella and campleobacter as part of their normal gut flora. And this type of bacteria, they're more aggressive. They're on higher numbers and they can survive and spread more easily through the muscle tissue. So when you're eating chicken, even if you like sear the outside, the bacteria can still be on the inside. And the chicken muscle itself, it's more porous. It's higher in moisture. It's less dense than beef. So the bacteria can just like do their thing. So the exception with red meat, the important thing here is that it needs to be the whole form because once you have like ground meat, then you're grounding everything up. The bacteria that's on the outside can then get mixed on the inside. So with ground meat, you actually do need to cook it all the way through. So unfortunately, you would not want to get like a rare burger or a blue burger because it's more likely that there could be an issue there. And then fish, I don't think he asked about fish, but fish are like a whole other category. For them, it's not so much about bacteria as it is about parasites. The good thing is most fish parasites are killed by deep freezing. So if you get, and this is how much I didn't know this and should have known things. So you'll see the word sushi grade. I always thought, I'm embarrassed to say this, I always thought that meant, I don't know, I had some like really vague definition of it in my head where it was like, oh, it means that it's like, it's good, like it tastes good. Kind of like the USDA grading system for beef is about like the marbling and the fat level, which is the same thing, but the sushi grade has nothing to do with that. It actually means has it been handled properly so that it can be eaten raw.
Melanie Avalon
So sushi grade raw fish means it's been handled properly enough that you can eat it raw. That said, and so that sushi grade fish is almost always frozen at some point beforehand, like flash frozen, and that kills those parasites like I was talking about.
And then as far as pork goes, pork, unfortunately, especially ground pork, but just normal pork as well, also has bacteria that can be more easily like inside of it. So that's why pork needs to be cooked through and then they have, so pork can harbor different types of bacteria. So your cinia, enterocolatica, I'm saying that completely wrong, salmonella, listeria, and staph, and parasites, and these can all potentially cause, cause trichinosis, which people have heard about. I'm hopefully not experienced. That's basically the situation. Did he ask anything else?
Barry Conrad
And you were just like, what needs to be cooked all the way? And what is, and as Mel says, blue.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so that's a deal there. Barry, what are your thoughts? Did you know all of this? I had no idea.
Barry Conrad
You know, I didn't know when I was looking into this question, I actually read about the sushi great fish as well. I'm like, okay, I had a different idea about that too.
It's completely different to what I thought. I thought it was just sushi.
Melanie Avalon
Did you think, like, I thought, like, that it's, like, means it's, like, good, you know, that it's, like, fancy?
Barry Conrad
Exactly and it's not not really nice
Melanie Avalon
No, it means it's been frozen to kill parasites.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I mean, Damon, I'm pretty simple when it comes to meat, you know, like, I don't like to play with parasites and salmonella and bacteria. So I make sure that I do, you know, with my steaks and stuff, medium rare is fine, rare is fine, all those things.
But as Melanie said, which is important to know with the ground beef, like you got to really cook that real all the way through. It's not the same as the burger, which is unfortunate because I think a rare or medium rare burger in a burger form could maybe be good. And yeah, definitely with pork and chicken, they get, that's nasty. But although I have a friend who went to Japan Mel last year and he,
Melanie Avalon
They have ceviche chicken
Barry Conrad
Yes. And I was like, I did not know you could even do that, but you can do that.
Melanie Avalon
would you eat that? I would eat that.
It's funny how we have like such a, I think it's a cultural thing, you know, cause like, I bet it tastes good. I bet if you didn't know it was chicken and you thought it was, I don't know, you thought it was something else meat related. Like you wouldn't have that aversion to it. I don't think, you know, there's something about like chicken. Like I think it's very cultural for a reason.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but yeah, I think Melanie, you answered everything pretty clearly there.
I would like to try a blue steak, Damon, so if you ever do, let me know how it is. I will have to try it myself at some point.
Melanie Avalon
You've never had a blue? No. That's like how I eat it every night of my life.
Barry Conrad
How long, so if you put the pan on like high, do you just, how long do you throw a piece of steak in there? Like per side, like 30 seconds? Because how long does it take to kill?
Melanie Avalon
I would do like 10 seconds.
Barry Conrad
to kill the back to... Oh, I actually did not.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, but let me check that that actually kills. I'm just assuming that kills it. Let's see.
Barry Conrad
Because I've actually never known like how long, yeah, I wonder if there's a amount of time that takes to kill the bacteria on the outside.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so apparently a few seconds to a minute per side. Yeah, I'm pretty sure because once it hits that temperature and it's seared, I mean, it's cooked, you know, like it's cooked. So I don't think the little bacteria can... I shouldn't laugh about that, but I don't think they can stand up to those high temperatures.
Barry Conrad
the power of the seer.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's interesting though, like in Germany, I just have this memory of them eating like raw ground beef, like beef tartare situations.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. I thought it was so disgusting at the time and now I think about it and I salivate like it Look it was like literally just like this thing of like raw ground beef and like egg yolks
Barry Conrad
Wait, I've seen this in restaurant photos and whatnot. So if clearly it is a thing, there must be a way to prepare it in a way that's not, that is safe.
Right? Because if otherwise so many restaurants would get sued or there'd be so many cases of, you know.
Melanie Avalon
That's what I, so that's what I was going to go on a little tangent, but I didn't. I do, and I know people get sick from this stuff. I do think we tend to over stress about it. Like I feel like people are, I don't know, I think we might be more resilient than we think we are, but let's see.
So to prepare safe beef tartare, chefs use high quality, ultra fresh whole cuts, like tenderloin, never pre-ground handle it with sterile tools. Keep it near frozen. And then they dice it by hand just before serving to avoid surface contamination. Sometimes searing or shaving the exterior. Oh, that, that would make sense. Okay. So like if you, and that's talking about like slicing it, but like, if you say you're at a restaurant and then you had like a big chunk of meat, then if you cut off, cut off all the sides, the outside, and then ground it right then.
Barry Conrad
Ah, yes. Okay. I get it.
Melanie Avalon
and make sure the grinder is, you know, clean.
Barry Conrad
That makes sense. Actually, yeah, I get that.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, thank you for the questions, Damon. And seriously, thank you, because I learned so much, something I've been wanting to look up for a long time.
So speaking of food, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast?
Barry Conrad
I thought you'd never ask.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so let me send you make it the restaurant hold on
Barry Conrad
I'm excited for this week's, do you have, is it something that you've done before?
Melanie Avalon
I was so sad, Barry, I was looking at restaurants and the first three that I want, no, the first four that I wanted to do, none of them had restaurants online.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they were all like very experience driven. And so it was very like unique to the night that you go. So there was no menus online. I was really sad.
I found this one that was like this called I'll just mention it's called Alchemist. Have you heard of it in Copenhagen? I had heard about it before apparently they do like social political commentary and it's like immersive theater. And so the food is all it's weird. They're like tell stories with the food or they'll be like it's kind of scary sometimes looking it kind of reminds me of like the menu movie. That's what it's like. Do you remember the movie the menu?
Barry Conrad
No, I don't think maybe and maybe not. I don't think I've seen that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It's kind of like that. That's the one I first read about. They were like, this is like the real life equivalent of the menu. It's not a horror restaurant, but it's interesting.
Okay. So the, the one I found.
Barry Conrad
And you got a menu, there's a menu.
Melanie Avalon
It has a menu.
Barry Conrad
I can't wait to see what kind of cuisine it is and what theme, what sort of vibe.
Melanie Avalon
So this restaurant is in Zanzibar. It is called The Rock. The story behind it is there are these two guys, so Nigel Furman, Andrea Brunetti. They met in Italy in 1978. They would go on journeys and travels. And then they saw this beautiful beach and there was this rock in the middle of the ocean, like a little bit offshore. And it was being used as a fishing outpost. So they were able to eventually buy this rock from the fishermen or they released it to them.
And then they turned it into this fine dining restaurant. And so you can walk there at low tide, but then when the high tide comes in, you have to take a boat back. But it's stunning looking. And they use all local ingredients. So the seafood is all harvested from the reefs right around the restaurant. They catch the fish daily by the local fishermen. They use spices from Zanzibar spice farms. And it's Italian cooking techniques with innovative twists. And they're all about sustainability and community and kitchen to table. And you're on a rock in the ocean.
Barry Conrad
I'm looking at the gallery right now. Mila looks, looks so beautiful, looks amazing. Like, yeah, it's so cool.
Melanie Avalon
I would be nervous having a restaurant on a rock though like what you know what happens like if there's a really bad storm or something.
Barry Conrad
That's actually true. Like, and it's like in the middle, like, and see it there. Like if it's a massive storm, how do people come to and from that little? Yeah, it looks amazing though.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, what if you're I wonder if they don't open on days that it's like really stormy. So shall we look at the menu?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so starters.
Barry Conrad
Starters, yes. Thank you for saying starters.
Melanie Avalon
I'm just reading what's in front of me. I don't make the choices. I don't have to agree. Oh, man. Oh, look, they're using the word prawns too. Oh, they got something you have been talking about.
Barry Conrad
Yes, actually. The octopus. The octopus, yes. Which Melanie is gonna, you're gonna try this year, do you think, Mel? You're gonna give it a go?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm no I'm down. I just I don't know. I feel bad eating octopus. They just seem so smart. I feel they seem so like whatever smarter than us.
Barry Conrad
I mean they might be, but they taste good.
Melanie Avalon
I do want to I do want to try, so we're going to get some of that.
Barry Conrad
Octopus and polenta, I think for the table. And then I would love to get the fish carpaccio. That looks really good.
Melanie Avalon
That was what I was looking at.
Barry Conrad
delicate coconut and lime dressing, dried lime, beetroot powder, and aromatic parsley oil.
Melanie Avalon
That looks so good. Yes. Are you okay if we get the dressing on the side? We can do that. Okay.
The octopus comes. It's octopus and polenta. It comes with tender octopus, confit, tomatoes, green oil, crispy polenta, velvety cassava, and potatoes cream. Oh, they have roast beef on the starter list? Oh, I want that too. English style roast beef with brown gravy, mango, chutney, and parsley oil.
Barry Conrad
Mango Chutney is one of my favorite things. Oh, really? Yeah, from South Africa, we call it Mrs. Ball's Chutney. It's the brand. It's so good. It's really, really good.
Melanie Avalon
Chutney does have a nice flavor to it.
Barry Conrad
It does. What are you eyeing for your main situation? I mean, there is pasta there.
Melanie Avalon
They have a lot of pasta. Oh, they have a blue spirulina pasta. Oh my goodness. Shout out to spirulina. Let's see. I'm not going to have pasta. Let's see your main course.
Barry Conrad
Mmm, I know what I want already.
Melanie Avalon
I hadn't looked already. I just looked that they had a menu. So I wonder if they could do substitutions, because I like the look of the rock special. It's a mixed grill of rock lobster, calamari, king prawns and octopus.
But I might want to I don't want the calamari. And then the octopus will depend on if I liked it at the appetizer. So would you eat the calamari?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, you don't like Calamari or you haven't tried.
Melanie Avalon
It's always fried, right?
Barry Conrad
No, sometimes they grill it, it's that you can grill.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, for sure.
Melanie Avalon
I've never had it then.
Barry Conrad
It's really good. It's delicious.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder if I would like it. What does it taste like? Does it taste like oysters?
Barry Conrad
It does not taste like oysters. It's very similar. Yeah, it's very similar consistency, definitely. It's definitely very similar to octopus, like the texture.
Melanie Avalon
Okay.
Barry Conrad
And it's really good. It can be really, it's quite lean, especially if they're grilling it or, you know, pan frying it on the fire. It's delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Well, in this, since this is like a mixed grill, I guess it's like all mixed together. Yeah, I, I think I would get that. That sounds kind of like very unique. Like I haven't had a mixed grill situation of that, all that seafood.
And the good thing is, I don't know. Oh, is octopus high in mercury? I know like shrimp and lobster are pretty low. Oh, octopus generally low and mercury. They do not typically accumulate high levels.
Barry Conrad
It's just like a protein fest, this rock special from what I can see. It would, yeah, it could be really good. A seafood.
Melanie Avalon
protein fest.
Barry Conrad
Like a paella, but with just seafood.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, which is ideal for me. Yeah, I like that there's nothing mentioned in there that's not protein. What are you getting? Are you getting that too?
Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the rock special for sure, but I also want to get the steak on the stick, which is very tender grilled beef filet and in brackets it says the knife is not necessary. Mashed potatoes, I love mashed potatoes and caramelized onion.
So I think that'd be a good taste to have in the midst of the seafood vest.
Melanie Avalon
That sounds really good. Yes, that's also what I would get too, but without the mashed potatoes. OK, do you see a dessert that you like?
Barry Conrad
I do. I want to get the coconut tiramisu and the chocolate salami. The chocolate salami is a rich no-bake log of dark and white chocolate, studded with crunchy biscuit pieces. Yum!
And the coconut tiramisu is a tropical twist on the classic tiramisu with coconut essence cream. Sounds pretty fresh and pretty good.
Melanie Avalon
I'm getting hit by a childhood memory right now. What? So, do they have coconuts? Are coconuts in either Australia or South Africa or New Zealand?
Barry Conrad
All of the above, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa! They all have coconuts? New Zealand has coconuts?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, even if they're imported, like they have it.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I mean like growing.
Barry Conrad
I can't be sure of that. Maybe I should look that up, but I've had it in all those places.
Melanie Avalon
But like palm trees and coconuts, like they don't grow there, right? So like, do you have memories of, because like here, everybody goes to Florida in the summer or, you know, a lot of people and like there's palm trees and coconuts everywhere.
Barry Conrad
South Africa and New Zealand don't, they don't have, no, they don't have natural coconut trees. So the other just import.
Melanie Avalon
So you don't have the childhood memory of wistfully looking at coconuts and having this vision in your head of like, I'm going to crack open the coconut and I'm going to eat the coconut meat or drink the coconut milk. I used to fantasize about doing that as a kid and then I would try to and I didn't know how to crack open the coconuts, like they're very hard.
Barry Conrad
They are very odd, Mel there.
Melanie Avalon
So like imagine like little Melanie, like getting coconuts, like banging them on rocks and like nothing's working.
Barry Conrad
trying to scale that tree and bring it on down.
Melanie Avalon
scale that. I know. That's the other thing. You got to wait until they drop down. Yep.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. I mean, I did go to Robert Tonga for like a box, which is like a bachelor sort of trip.
And they had a session with the guy, you know, who climbs the tree, climbs the trees, gets the coconut down and cuts it open for everyone. That was really cool.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, that's like exactly what I wanted to do. That was what I wanted to do. Wow, and you experienced it by watching it happen in front of you.
Barry Conrad
and tasted the fresh juice coming out of that. It's honestly so delicious. It's really good.
Melanie Avalon
It sounds really good. Let's see, do they have a, they do have a drink list. Do you see any drinks you would like?
Barry Conrad
To have a lot of wines here, I would definitely get...
Melanie Avalon
They got a South Africa rosé.
Barry Conrad
You know what, I'm going to do that South African rosé for sure. We'll get a bottle of that for the table, but I'm also going to get a, I'm going to look at the cocktails and see if they have a cocktail of the, of the, uh, venue.
I reckon the rock, cause it says it's called the rock. It's vodka, passion fruit, lime juice, and blue. Caracao. So Rocco. So I'll try that cause it's.
Melanie Avalon
It isn't like carousel, is it carousel or?
Barry Conrad
There we go. You know what? Here we go again. Just...
Melanie Avalon
I don't want to say it wrong, too.
Barry Conrad
So I'll probably get that and then just the rosé, the South African rosé sounds pretty good, to sip on throughout the meal.
Melanie Avalon
I appreciate how you always, like I appreciate your appreciation of like what is their, you know, their, their vibe feature thing.
Barry Conrad
Well, definitely because I feel like even if it's a dish or a drink, if it's native, not native, but if it's the venues thing, I will definitely give it a go.
Melanie Avalon
we're like so different there. I'm like, let me get exactly what I want. I don't care what they feature. But I get excited to be with people who get it. So everybody wins.
Yeah. And I would just have to ask the waiters a lot of questions. There's not a lot of information about like to just say like Rosé, South Africa, that tells me nothing. Like, whoa.
Barry Conrad
if it's organic, if it's good, bad, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they don't really they aren't listing the producers. They're just saying where they're from
Barry Conrad
I mean, that's always kind of, it's kind of like, you know, Coca-Cola, it's just, it is what, it always is what it is, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Moen, Chandon, Rose, Champagne. Yes, I would make something work. So awesome. Wanna go?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, especially go out on a boat to the rock and climb up there and what a time that'd be so scenic and beautiful and fresh.
Melanie Avalon
we will add it to the list of restaurants. I wish we could just like pop up all these places, that would be so amazing.
So friends, listeners, we hope you enjoyed your time with us today. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can email questions at iapodcast.com or you can go to iapodcast.com and submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at iapodcast.com slash episode 468. They will have links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And as a reminder, you can get my Glow Coffee at glowcoffeeco.com. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are iapodcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. Barry is berry underscore Conrad. And yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
We appreciate each and every one of you tuning in every week. Thank you so much for joining us again, and we'll talk to you next week.
Melanie Avalon
I'll talk to you next week. Bye.
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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