Welcome to Episode 472 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 472 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode 472 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing really, really well. First of all, it's hot here, so I'm happy that it's warm, eh, which you would not like at all.

The sun's out and I'm feeling great. And then second of all, I have just recently been in LA actually, my first interstate, I don't know if you, if you guys say interstate here in America, my first national trip, I guess, flying-wise.

Melanie Avalon
continental.

Barry Conrad
Continental flight here to LA. I was there for the G'day USA Arts Gala, my very first one, which is basically... Do you know about this event?

Melanie Avalon
Well, you told me about it. So because I remember I thought I was trying to figure out I thought it was G day. So I was like, what is G? I was like trying to think of everything you could stand for. It's like, is it gay day?

No.

Barry Conrad
Is it gay today? Is it this? Like, it was very funny.

Melanie Avalon
It's a good day.

Barry Conrad
It's G'day, like in Australia we say G'day, how are you doing kind of thing. And for listeners, you don't know what that is. G'day USA is this long running sort of like initiative that celebrates the relationship between Aussies and you guys, like the US. And every year they host a bunch of different events across different industries like film, TV, business, tech, everything.

And this gala specifically recognizes Australians working in film, TV, and music in the creative industries. And it's basically just a room full of Aussies doing amazing things in Hollywood and internationally, which is always a fun vibe. And this year, now they're honored, Yvonne Strahovski from Hamid's Hail, Ian Thorpe, the Olympian, and Millie Alcock from Superman. And for me, it was like a whirlwind, but it was really special to be there finally after having moved here and to be amongst it all. And I can't escape Australia clearly. So it was amazing.

And you would have loved the setup as well, the bar and the red carpet because Qantas is one of the sponsors. So you get there and these pilots are lined up, actual pilots, and they give you a boarding pass with like, like, welcome to G'day. It's really cool. It's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
I've been dying to hear how it went, like dying, so this is very exciting.

And it's funny, I was actually, I had a call yesterday with something I will talk about later, but one of the women on the call was from Australia.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm trying to remember which part she was from. But the reason I'm bringing it up is I was thinking about your event because I told her about you. And I mentioned how you were in neighbors. And she was like, Oh, she was like, that's like the rite of passage in Australia for like all the actors.

Like, I didn't realize like Margot Robbie was on it. And like all the people. And then we went on a tangent about like Australian actors and how the US inherits them. And so I was thinking about your event. I was like, well, all the Australian actors were with Barry this week.

Barry Conrad
It's actually really true, as you said, like the alumni that comes out of neighbors and home in a way as the other one, it's like.

Melanie Avalon
That was the, yeah, I know, that's what you talked about.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. It's like Chris Hemsworth, Margot Robbie, Russell Crowe, Carly Minogue, Guy Pearce, like so many people, it's just, I guess it's, what would your, what would the equivalent be here?

Melanie Avalon
That's what I was thinking. I was like, I was like, I don't think we really have the equivalent, the thing I could think of, but it's not applicable anymore.

But in like the 90s, I think there was the Mickey Mouse Club and like everybody was in that, like Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake and like all the people, but we don't really have like one, you know, like one or two shows where like everybody's in it.

Barry Conrad
I heard like law and order, you know, that show, I think that is like a thing here in New York, something like that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like have a bit roll on law and order. It's like, yeah, that's a good one. That and the CSI maybe all the CSI shows and NCIS

Barry Conrad
But Mel, honestly, you would have loved it. It was amazing.

One thing that I forgot about, though, and you would know this really well, is how spread out LA is, which I know, but it just stood out to me more than usual this time around. Like, it's so far to get anywhere. There's no, let's not like subways like New York or anything. Where was the event? This was at the lot in Formosa, and I was staying in, you know that area?

Melanie Avalon
Like in West Hollywood? Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting so nostalgic. I dreamed last night I was back and living in LA.

Barry Conrad
Didn't you say before like you do often dream about that? So maybe it's gonna happen.

Melanie Avalon
It's always that I'm there and that I'm like so happy I'm back and that I'm convinced I'm not dreaming. Like I think I'm literally like, I'm in LA. I'm not dreaming. I made it back.

I'm not dreaming this time. Like that's what happens every single time. And then I wake up and I'm like, oh. That's so fun.

Barry Conrad
How are you? How's your week or weeks been?

Melanie Avalon
Good. And so this airs May 4th, which may the 4th be with you. Did they say that in Australia? Yes, they do.

And even though, so us talking about the weather, which we tend to do, but it actually is hot here and it shouldn't be because it's not May right now as of this recording. It was like 80 degrees this week, which is wild. But the biggest update is we actually launched Glow, my coffee line. Yes. Awesome. So friends, I've been saying this so much with like, I hope it's out. I'm not sure. Well, now I know that it will be out because it's out now and it's currently March. It was really exciting because this was my first time with my partners, us doing it all ourselves. I learned so much. There were so many fires to put out. It was crazy, but we survived.

That was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my entire life for sure. So, but friends, go get it now. Go to glowcoffeecode.com, use the coupon code IFPodcast for 10% off. This is why you need it. It is the perfect coffee for your fasting because coffee for a lot of people is their number one source of antioxidants, which is kind of upsetting, but you can actually specifically, like different beans have different levels of antioxidants. So we found the beans that are very high in CGA content, antioxidant content. And then we roast the beans to preserve that. It comes from a completely female led sustainable initiative in Columbia. It's a single origin Arabica bean organic. We did extensive testing for 90 plus compounds like toxins, pesticides, heavy metals, mold. This is the stuff you want. It tastes delicious. It's the way to glow inside and out.

So glowcoffeecode.com, coupon code IFPodcast for 10% off. And yeah, wait, did I send it to you yet, Barry? I didn't, right?

Barry Conrad
No, but I'm going to buy some. You didn't send it to me.

Melanie Avalon
I will send you some. I'm waiting for my order. I don't have any right now. Well, I do for me, but it's so good. I'm going to turn you into a glow person.

Barry Conrad
Do you know what I also really love about the packaging, Melanie? What? The feel your day, illuminate your way. I think that's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
I was going to say that when I was talking. Yes, the tagline.

Barry Conrad
I love that. It's really, it's very you and it's great.

Melanie Avalon
Quick question for you, because we're having internal conversations right now about this. We're trying to really, this is like the very beginning stages of a new company, so we're really trying to hone in on our focal points and our target audience.

So the team wants to kind of focus on women, like market to women, but I feel like it should be for everybody. When you see the packaging, are you like, oh, that's way too girly? You can be honest.

Barry Conrad
I do think it slants a little bit, also because maybe that's very sexist of me to say, only now that you mention it. I mean, not overly, I do think maybe it slants a little bit femininy, but also what does that even mean?

But that's just my, I guess, off the cuff answer, so that's truthful.

Melanie Avalon
No, I appreciate it. I think we might come to a happy medium where we use a lot of terminology that is feminine, but not necessarily like saying it's like a women's or female or feminine coffee.

Barry Conrad
Can I ask you why, why manly females or why was that initially the target? I'm curious.

Melanie Avalon
or why are we having that conversation right now because of what we're seeing in sales, so female versus male purchasers. And then going in line with the packaging, which is feminine. And then I guess they were excited about maybe focusing because there's not, I guess, we were looking at all the different competitors and who their target market audience and there's not really like a coffee that's like marketed specifically towards females. So it's an opportunity.

I just don't want to box out. I think it's for everybody. So I don't want to box people out.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I mean, I feel like any good product, any good coffee, people are going to find it anyway.

So you can try to keep us away, the guys away, but I know it's going to be good, so I'll be having some. I don't care if it's curly.

Melanie Avalon
Maybe we can launch a second SKU that is the exact same thing, but like a different ombre that's more masculine. No, I don't want to do that. So yeah, I'm excited.

Barry Conrad
Can I just say, congratulations, this is an amazing moment because you've been working on this for a long time. So how do you feel? Do you feel excited, relieved, like you told me how you feel?

Melanie Avalon
I feel so excited. It's just funny because it could have been way worse, like all of the last minute fires that we were putting out and you know, things going wrong. It could have been way worse, but it was very stressful. And so it's nice.

I was just worried about like, is this going to work? Like are we going to actually get coffee to people? Because like doing the order fulfillment yourself is a lot. So it's really exciting. And the packaging is really exciting. If you order one, well, I don't want to discourage people from ordering more. But if you only order one or two bags, the packaging is like really fun. After that, it comes in a box.

Feels good. So put it out to the universe that it becomes. I want to see it on shelves like in Whole Foods. That's my goal someday.

Barry Conrad
I totally see that and there's no reason why that can't happen. And if, you know, I know you, you are someone who makes things happen. So putting it out there with you.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So yeah, and congrats also on your event and all the things that you're doing.

Barry Conrad
Also, we're talking about you, but thank you very much.

Melanie Avalon
I know what I realized I didn't tell you congratulations after we, you flipped the script and put it on me. So going back to you. We're here. We're proud of each other.

Barry Conrad
We're here, we're here, we're proud of each other.

Melanie Avalon
Should we jump into some fasting related things?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it! I brought a study this week, Mel, and it's called The Effect of Emotional Eating on Body Weight and Eating Habits in Adults.

Melanie Avalon
Oh!

Barry Conrad
So the study I'm reading is called The Effect of Emotional Eating on Body Weight and Eating Habits in Adults. And the study was carried out by a team from Ankara University in Turkey. And it was published in the journal Medicine Science in 2022. And it looked at a pretty big group of adults, 2,461 people aged between 18 and 65. That included 677 men and more than 1,700 women. So quite a big, large group there. The researchers used face-to-face questionnaires to measure emotional eating, uncontrolled eating, hunger sensitivity, and cognitive restraint. Also face-to-face for that many people, that's a lot of commitment. They matched that with the participants' actual food intake, physical activity levels, and body mass index. What they found is really striking, because according to the data, Mel, about 35% of the adults were overweight and another 25% were obese.

The biggest pattern running through the whole study is that emotional eating is strongly tied to higher calorie intake, especially from carbohydrates and fat. So when hunger scores or uncontrolled eating scores went up, so did that daily energy intake. And on page three of the study, the highest emotional and uncontrolled eating groups were consuming so much more energy, carbs and fat, than the lowest scoring groups. The study also showed clear links between emotional eating and food choices, which didn't surprise me at all. People who ate more of the fast food situations with sugary drinks at least once a week had much higher emotional eating and uncontrolled eating scores. They also had higher hunger sensitivity. That lines up with a lot of what you sort of see in the real world when people reach for that quick comfort food or bag of Doritos or bag of Cheetos under stress when you're feeling sort of out of control around eating or you're busy. And the researchers pointed out that emotional eaters, they tend to go for foods really, really high in sugar and fat, because those foods give that short-term mood lift cue when people say, I couldn't do fasting because I need a pick me up. So that afternoon, a little sugar boost. But long-term, that pattern leads to weight gain and worse metabolic health. And one of the strongest things that they found came through when they looked at overweight and obese participants because it showed that every single sub-factor score from the emotional eating questionnaire was significantly higher in people who were overweight or obese compared to those at a normal weight. So that means emotional eating, uncontrolled eating, hunger sensitivity, and cognitive restraint all showed up more intensely in heavier people. And when they ran those stats, they found that each of the even like small rises in emotional eating related factors increased the risk of being overweight or obese. So hunger increased the risk by about 80% and dietary disinhibition increased the risk by 14%. And that's pretty big. And how do I, why did I think this relates back to IF? I think there are a couple of important takeaways because intermittent fasting, it brings one thing that I love that it brings is structure and rhythm.

Barry Conrad
And it brings that into people's eating patterns, which can naturally lower mindless eating and emotional snacking. And Mel, we were talking about this recently as well about, do you eat more when you're scrolling or watching TV? And I sort of liken it to that as well. When we have that structure in place, we're way less likely to do that because we have our window, we have our fast, and that's it no matter what.

But the fasting doesn't automatically fix emotional eating, I should say. I mean, if anything, emotional patterns can show up sometimes even more clearly when you shrink your eating window because people... Can maybe find themselves overeating especially in the beginning of a fasting journey and it could highlight struggles that they might have with particular foods which i think is a good thing even if they stroll for that short amount of time because it really is gonna shine that almost like a lift of magnifying glass on are these are the things that i'm really gravitating towards and you know things maybe that they haven't emotionally addressed you know that might set them off so i mean the studies it's a good reminder that emotional eating it's not just about willpower it's really not it's tied to to learn behaviors stress mood and and those patterns really do directly affect calorie intake and weight regardless of regardless of timing fasting is a great structure but it's not just a magic pill you know it's an amazing tool but it works best when paired with awareness around why we eat what we eat not just when we eat so mel i reckon this study explains why some people thrive with fasting and why those underlying emotional issues related to food still there and why they struggle what do you think the study

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, fine. So first thing I just thought, because in the beginning when you're saying that they tend to overeat more with the fat and the carbs, it makes me wonder if you had like somebody who struggles with emotional eating but they just like went crazy on protein, would they gain weight? Like would everything with the weight correlations go away? I feel like they might.

I don't know how they would study that. They would have to take people who are overweight or I guess they would have to take people who profess to have emotional eating or identify with that or answer the questions to rank that way and then have them commit to like when they want to eat more, they're only allowed to eat protein. And like what would happen? That would be really interesting.

Barry Conrad
I think it'd be really interesting too, for sure.

Melanie Avalon
But as far as the, what you're saying about why fasting can be so beneficial, 100%, because especially with emotional eating, it really is a situation where presumably people do not want to be over emotionally eating. You know, like it feels good in the moment to be eating the food, but I would guess that most people engaging in that situation don't want to be doing it.

Like they probably want to stop. Like if anybody's ever been in like a binge moment or like a moment where they're just eating to, not just, but they're eating to, you know, alleviate their feelings and feel good again, you know, most people do not want to be doing that. So it's definitely an example of not being able to enforce your own willpower in a situation. And the great thing about fasting is it sets up a structure where you don't require willpower anymore, which sounds ironic because you're like, well, you're not eating that requires willpower, sort of, except once you have your, your window, then you're just committed to it. And you don't have to use willpower to constantly moderate your eating or stop eating or wonder if you're going to eat or if you're not, you just have the system that you committed to. So you don't tax your willpower. And then in the evening window, you don't have to use willpower because you're quote, allowed, and I don't really like that word, but you're allowed, you've, you've granted yourself permission within that eating window to eat, you know, whatever you want in most people's way of doing intermittent fasting. So it really feels like an antidote or a solution for emotional eating because it's directly addressing that willpower. It's kind of like bowling, like putting up the guardrails, like putting up the guardrails and bowling, like it makes it, I mean, that sometimes feels like cheating, but it makes it so much easier to hit the pins at the end because the guardrails are up and do you like bowling?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I don't love it, but I like it.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you don't love it. I love it. I love bowling. I think it's so fun.

It's like, okay, and you know, I'm gonna be talking about this because I've been trying to think I like forgot about bowling and I've been trying to think of indoor activities that I might want to do with people bowling. I should start suggesting bowling ping pong. Can you go play ping pong places though?

Barry Conrad
Yes, like I went there to one on the weekend. They're really good. And you just go in and

Melanie Avalon
Really? Like a ping pong place?

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And you just go in and you sort of like pay for like an hour or whatnot. There's all these tables in there and you just do it.

Melanie Avalon
I bet I bet it's way more popular now after Monty Python Supreme, whatever it's called that movie. Not money.

Barry Conrad
Monty's a dream.

Melanie Avalon
Did you watch that movie?

Barry Conrad
I did watch it. What did you think of? I liked it. It was stressful. Stressful.

Melanie Avalon
watching the ping pong matches.

Barry Conrad
Well, no, just like he always found himself in all these crazy situations. I'm like, bro, just chill out. Yeah, that was a lot.

Melanie Avalon
I will say my one note, I don't want to go into a whole tangent about it, but the whole movie I was like, I was like clearly, I was like trying to figure out how they shot it so that they would do close ups on him. I assumed he had a double playing the ping pong. I didn't realize he was doing it all himself, blew my mind.

And I was literally like, I was like, oh, see that shot? That's like a double. They're like, nope, actually, actually him. So good job. Ping pong. Okay. I wonder if, okay, here's a question. Last thing I promise. So with bowling, I have noticed that if you're drinking, you, at least for me, way better. Like I perform way better. Like I'm really good bowling if I'm, have some wine.

Barry Conrad
We're probably not overthinking it, right?

Melanie Avalon
Right. Exactly. You don't overthink it. You're just like, I'm just gonna do this. I wonder with ping pong? Probably not, right? Probably the opposite.

Barry Conrad
You know what, maybe you should try and see report back and I should try as all and see if it makes a difference.

Melanie Avalon
do a study.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, do a study.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I guess you could go for like a night and you just won't drink for the first half and you drink for the second half and then see if your scores improve.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. Yeah, back to the study. So yeah, it's not like none of it's surprising at all to me, the findings, like it's not surprising to me that emotional eating correlates to weight gain and obesity. The part that was surprising where you said even like even small amounts of, I don't remember the words you used, but even like a slight increase in emotional eating scores correlated to weight gain, that's interesting.

That makes it feel like it's like all or none. You know, like if you, that's, that's interesting. Like I wonder how many people emotionally eat and you said everybody in the study who had that symptoms correlated to weight gain. Yeah. Wow.

Barry Conrad
Do you have friend because I've got I don't put I haven't personally Experienced it myself, but I definitely know quite a few people who have experienced emotional eating or when they're feeling down I'm not feeling great. It's something that they've turned to I don't know what causes that genetically or conditional or how people are conditioned to Behave in that way or to react in that way But it's definitely is very much a thing for a lot of people

Melanie Avalon
I would be surprised, I would be shocked if, at least with women, I don't know about men, I would be shocked if I have a single female friend that has not at some point experienced emotional eating. I would put, I don't know the stats, but I would say at some point, I would guess like 95% of females have.

I could be wrong.

Barry Conrad
I wonder what that is. Is it like societal pressure? Like what is that? Is it a hormonal thing? Like what is?

Melanie Avalon
I think it would be a lot of things. And this is me formulating this hypothesis in real time, so I reserved the right to change my mind.

But I would say it's the societal pressure of women needing to be thin and need to be a certain weight. So always this concern around eating and food and diet culture on top of the fact that women's bodies are prime for pregnancy. So our bodies want to have, especially as females, they want to have a lot of calories to support the future child. So there's even more of a drive for food. Women tend to be more emotional than men, so there's that aspect. And then hormones. So I think it's like the perfect storm of we're just kind of set up for it.

Barry Conrad
That makes sense what you're sharing. I mean, does it count if I, I like to have a really good meal to celebrate things, but it's not, does that count as emotional?

That's not really emotional eating. It's more celebratory. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I'd have to like actually see how they defined it. Did they define it in the study? I would assuming it's like, oh, I just saw it. I just saw the word on the study.

I would say it's like feeling uncontrolled in your eating or binging, like feeling like you are... Oh, here it is. Yeah. In their conclusion, they say, okay, this is not exactly defining it, but they say cognitive eating restraint, which is observed more in individuals with high BMI is estimated to increase body weight by causing binge eating attacks or uncontrolled consumption of foods. Oh, that are thought to be healthy. That's interesting. What were you asking? Oh, you were asking if like a celebratory meal. No, I would define it as having certain emotions and to distract yourself from the emotions or deal with the emotions, you eat food to release feel good neurotransmitters or to distract yourself.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, a friend of mine, actually really, really close friend of mine, lost his mom. And his way of dealing with that was every night after work was buying a whole bunch of snacks and whatnot, trinkets, and just eating every night, like just so much and gain so much weight because it felt like safety or a way of processing.

It's really interesting, actually. It's really fascinating. Like what goes through, I wonder what goes through your mind to make you feel like that is a comfort, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
When you eat the food, it tastes good and it makes you feel good in the moment, like just objectively. If you're eating a food that you really like, and especially if it's like processed or high in fat, high in sugar, high in fat and sugar, it just lights up your brain.

So if you're dealing with something difficult, you can like eat something and you feel better.

Barry Conrad
You know, the dopamine hit and that, I guess the other part of that is it would override the logic or your yearning to be like, I know this is unhealthy, but I'm going to do it because I feel good in the moment, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, have you seen the movie? I think this is the most powerful emotional eating scene I've seen in a movie, although I guess there aren't that many that I've seen.

But have you seen the movie ghost? Wait, is it called? No, not ghost. Wait, hold on. Oh, a ghost story? No, no. Yes, a ghost story. Who's in that? Casey Affleck, and Rooney Mara.

Barry Conrad
I know KCL but I haven't seen that movie.

Melanie Avalon
I want to rewatch it actually, it came out in 2017, but there's a scene in there that like really haunts me. It's after, it's called Ghost because I think, I don't think this gives anything away. Pretty sure this happens in the beginning. Her boyfriend or husband or whoever it is dies and he's like a ghost. But there's like a scene where she, right after it happens when she's like dealing with her emotions and it's like one take and it's, I don't know how long it is. It feels like it's like 10 minutes. It's a very long scene and it's her just eating like a pie and like crying. It's really powerful.

It's like, you know, when he's like see a scene and it just like impacts you. I like can't get that scene out of my head, but I think it captures the experience of emotional eating is my point.

Barry Conrad
And that would have been so full and for her to even go to that place to do that as well.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, good find. Thank you. Yay for team fasting for helping with emotional eating and willpower. Yes. All right. Shall we jump into some questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump into some of our amazing listeners' questions. And Mel, we have a question from Teresa Colangelo.

And she says, if you have another podcast on weird things, I wanted to report that when I do fasts between 36 and 40 hours, the first time I eat the roof of my mouth is sore. I'm assuming it's because I haven't chewed in long hours, so therefore the muscle is sore from lack of use. What do you think, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Teresa, thank you so much for your question. So I will put a link in the show notes.

We did, you were not the host for that, right? I think we did, it was a while ago to remember who was the host. It was like weird things people experienced during fasting. Was that me and you?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, but that sounds like something that I want to talk about. Bad memory if I can't remember that.

Melanie Avalon
It was a while ago. I think it was when Jen was hosting. I will look for it, but we could revisit that. That'd be fun.

In any case, it's really funny hearing this question Teresa, because I have had this experience, but only when I would eat cashews to break my fast. So it was a specific food. And assuming it's the same feeling that you're feeling, I think it is probably. I always assumed it was like a histamine reaction response to the food I was eating. So I did some research into this. And something important is, and I didn't know this, but apparently the roof of the mouth is mostly bone covered by mucosa. It's not actually muscle. So it's not actually a sore muscle from lack of chewing. That's probably not what's happening. What it could be is reduced saliva production while fasting. So having a dry mouth basically, because you're not chewing, not tasting food, your sympathetic nervous system is up a bit. And the function of saliva is to lubricate your mouth, buffer acids, protect your oral mucosa. And so if you have less saliva and increased friction when chewing, it might just be more sensitive, essentially, like reacting to the food. It could be, even though there's not a lot of muscle there, it does absorb pressure from chewing. Especially if you're eating something, I guess you would look at what you're eating. Is it with everything you eat? Is it just if you eat crunchy things or a lot of food or high protein? It could be just a transitory inflammatory response to that. If so, it could also be salivary enzyme rebound. So basically your first meal, you get this sudden surge of saliva to eat, and then that can release a enzyme called amylase. And that might create a situation where you're just more sensitive. And then the other recommendation that was given is the one I thought, which is a histamine response. So basically there might be mass cell activation, like local mass cell activation in your mouth, if you're reacting to the food. Especially if it's like a high histamine food or an acidic food. So yeah, you could basically try some experiments. You could see if you try hydration more and have electrolytes during your fast. We love element. You can go to www.drinklmnt.com slash IF podcast to get a free sample pack there. But supporting your fast with electrolytes and hydration, trying to see if you break your fast with different foods. Does it change it? So if it's like softer food, does that happen? You could try having like a small pre-meal primer, like having like some bone broth or like something's like light to like wake, I guess, like deal with that first salivary rebound and like getting your mouth going again and like ease in essentially. But it's just funny because like the literally the first thing, when I read this question, I was like, I have experienced this exact thing. And for me, it's like a reaction to a certain food. What are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
You know, Mel, you really basically covered so much for what I wanted to say. You said it so amazingly.

The reason I had to laugh, I don't know why it was funny when I first read it. Weird things, but I echo what Mel said about it's probably most likely less about the roof of your mouth being a muscle per se that's out of shape and more about a sensitivity situation, you know, like when you haven't eaten what you'd for 36, you said 36 to 40 hours, your whole mouth has basically been on like a little vacay. So it's like that saliva production is a bit lower. Like Mel said, maybe dry mouth, it could literally just be that. And you could even try breaking your fast with something softer like eggs or yogurt or soup or something like that. As Mel said, again, like experiment with different things and see what it is. I'd probably encourage you to maybe let your mouth, quote unquote, warm up a bit before you sort of dive into something crunchy or sharp or something like that to see if it makes a difference. It might not, but if it goes away quickly, Theresa, and it isn't painful beyond that first meal after experimenting, it might just have to fall into one of those quirky little fasting side effects that we might have to throw into another weird things podcast episode, but keep us posted. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I know. We should do one for sure. Awesome. Okay.

So our next question comes from Henrietta. And the subject is new to IF, craving pickles. And Henrietta says, good morning. I have been listening to your podcast and really enjoy the information and Facebook group, which by the way is called IF Biohackers, if people want to join. She says, I have been practicing fasting for about a month now and I'm doing 18.6 now. I cut out sugar and creamer in my coffee and now drink it black. My question is that I crave dill pickles and juice from them. Last night I didn't eat, but drink some pickle juice to help with the cravings. Can you explain why I'm craving pickles? Does drinking pickle juice hurt my fasting? Thank you so much for your help.

Barry Conrad
Henrietta, first of all, welcome to fasting. Welcome to the IF world. And big ups to you for making those changes, going from sugar and cream out of black coffee is not just a small thing, so that's a big deal. And the fact that you already jumped straight into an 18.6 situation after just a month, Henrietta tells me that you're sitting into this with intention and you're gonna be just fine.

Now let's talk about the dill pickle situation because I actually love pickles and I'm not surprised that you said this. I think the first thing when I read this was it's the sodium thing. That really jumped out to me straight away. And when you cut sugar or you're extending your fasting window or reducing processed foods, your insulin levels are spending a lot more time or lower. That's one of the benefits of fasting. But the thing that a lot of people who don't fast might not always hear is that when your insulin drops, Henrietta, your kidneys release more sodium. So that means you're naturally excreting more salt. So like suddenly you might be running a little lower on sodium than you were before, especially if you're drinking more water or coffee. So and water pickles loaded with that tastes so good, salt. So your body craving those pickles or even just the juice of the pickle juice can actually be a pretty intelligent signal. That's a good thing because it's saying, hey, we need electrolytes and we gotta cue some element there as well. It's not random. It's not weird, Henrietta. It's often our physiology sort of just adjusting to a new pattern of eating. So the second thing I would say is taste. When you cut sugar, your taste buds recalibrate and things that used to feel wild suddenly feel intense. I know for me when I first started fasting and really giving myself that rest time, I got a break and my taste buds a break. When I would go to eat, I'd be really surprised at just how more intense I could taste things. Just the most basic things suddenly had more flavor when I thought they were bland and things that I used to season a lot more and season them and go, whoa, this is way too much because your palate is changing and pickles tick all those boxes. So does drinking pickle juice hurt your fast? I mean, I would say in most cases, no, not really. I mean, I think plain pickle juice is basically salt, water, vinegar, spices, very minimal calories. I wouldn't go crazy on drinking pickle juice as a beverage Henrietta in front of the TV with my meal or anything. But from an insulin and metabolic perspective, a small amount of pickle juice, it's probably unlikely to seriously disrupt your fast. I mean, after breaking it, I should say, and not during the fast. I mean, for some people, a sip of pickle juice, maybe to break it, if that's gonna help you or give you that kick or whatnot, sure. But I think if you're gonna have it during your fast, it's gonna break it. So I think when you do have it Henrietta, if you're sipping a little bit because you just feel off, that's probably, again, what I said before, your body needing that sodium. So again, electrolytes, I can't recommend Element enough.

Barry Conrad
Really check out their sodas. Their packages that they have.

If you're drinking a whole jar of pickle juice because you're emotionally spiraling, that's a very different conversation. And also ask yourself, was it true hunger or was it a wave? Because hunger waves pass. Electrolyte deficiency doesn't necessarily pass. So learning to tell the difference is part of the fasting journey. If your pickle cravings are strong and frequent like all the time, you might wanna experiment with adding some structured electrolytes, not just having it when you feel it now and then. Just to see, again, like we like to talk about almost like elimination experiment or an introductory experiment where we put things into our diet and take it out to see if it makes a difference. But Henrietta, what I do love about your question is that it shows you are paying attention on this new little adventure. And cravings aren't always a sign we're doing something wrong during our intermittent fasting ride. Sometimes they're clues and in your case, I bet this is probably mostly about the sodium and your body just adapting to it. So you're only a month in and making really good progress. That's something to feel good about. You're after a really good start. Mel, what do you think about this?

Melanie Avalon
You covered that all perfectly and adequately and wonderfully. The initial like immediate thing I thought was electrolytes, like most definitely. So everything Barry said, I echo.

I, as far as breaking the fast, kind of like what you said, it's probably not going to be like a deal breaker game changer where it massively stalls your fat loss or anything like that. My concern would just be that, well, if it's like commercial pickles, there can actually be a lot of stuff in there. So like there could be sugar, there could be flavors. There can be like a lot in processed foods, especially like pickles. But if it's like, you know, the most natural form of pickles with minimal additives, then, well, the water obviously is not breaking the fast. The sodium is not breaking the fast. The vinegar, vinegar can lower your blood sugar and it technically is I guess a food item and then spices as well, technically a food item. And I think pickles, like when you drink pickled juice, at least to me, it evokes like a food association. So I would, that's why I would go more and just have like unflavored during the fast unflavored element electrolytes, because then you're going to address that question of the craving without having any sort of food related vibe coming in, if that makes sense. I agree with everything that you said. Do you like pickles?

Barry Conrad
You know what, I actually love pickles because one go-to meal that I like to make, Mel, is homemade smash burgers. I basically, because rather than going to a fast food place, I'll get like really good smash burger meat from ButcherBox. Shout out to ButcherBox. They're awesome and I'd have it every every week, once a week, and get some cheese in there, get some pickles in there, and it gives me that sort of treat, sort of kick, but it's way healthier.

And I love, and the pickles are so good. Pickles are great. I don't have them all the time, so it's always a treat when I do have them. That's sour taste.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny is I never liked pickles growing up and I still, I don't eat that. I love fermented foods, like I love sauerkraut, but it's ironic because I eat exuberant amounts of cucumbers, but in the pickled form, I actually don't know that I've had, because I so dislike them growing up and like, you know, would freak out if they were like on my burger or something.

I actually don't know that I've had like a, like a, cause I was mentioning that a lot of the commercial forms have like flavors and sweeteners and things like that. I don't know that I've had like a original, like organic, non additive pickle. I don't think so. I'm going to have to buy one.

Barry Conrad
They're really good.

Melanie Avalon
It's really funny. Okay. Speaking of, do you think we should break our proverbial fast?

Barry Conrad
Absolutely. Let's do it. I can't wait.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and I will say, because you mentioned ButcherBox, listeners can get free things from ButcherBox, depends on what the current offer is, but if you go to ButcherBox.com slash I have podcast, you get amazing things.

So like, for example, were you to go right now, which you can't because we're in the past, but right now you could pick either free chicken breasts for a year, free top store loin steaks for a year, or free ground beef for life, which is wild. So, and they make all like grass fed, sustainably raised, delicious meat, seafood, all the things. Okay, so listeners, friends, this part of the show is where we celebrate the eating portion of fasting because the benefits are fasting are not just due to fasting, they are also due to the eating. And like we talked about earlier with the emotional eating and all of that conversation, I'm just thinking about how like so many of our questions were about like this moment, like Teresa with her sore mouth and then emotional eating and like eating within a window to help with willpower.

In any case, we like to showcase a restaurant and pick out what we would order there. So this restaurant, I don't think I, wait, I'm pretty sure I haven't done this one before.

Barry Conrad
I'm so excited, by the way, I'm like, is it going to be Disney? Is it going to be haunted? Is it going to be?

Melanie Avalon
Have I done Be Our Guest restaurant?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so. That doesn't sound familiar.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, speaking of dreams, remember I was saying earlier how I dream about LA. Another reoccurring dream I have all the time is that I dream, I have not been to this restaurant and I dreamed, I dreamed that I'd go there. Like, that's how bad I want to go if my subconscious wants to go.

But this is called Be Our Guest. It's in Magic Kingdom and I'll send you the link. But if you just Google Be Our Guest Disney, it's like the castle from Beauty and the Beast.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. That actually is the castle from P and the Beast. That's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
And apparently they have like, so they have like the ballroom, the grand ballroom, and then they have like the, was it the West Wing, like the, you know, the wing were like the, the picture with the, with the rose, like where the rose is, and they have that. And then I think there's one more room. Would you want to eat in the, the grand ballroom or the West Wing?

Barry Conrad
I reckon the Grand Boar Room, I reckon that's the place, right?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, yes, and I kind of want to be in the creepy, like, West, like, dark West Wing. Let me, well, I'm going to look at it really quickly.

Barry Conrad
Wow, this is amazing, fine. I'm looking at all the photos on the website.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yes. And then they also have the gray stuff. I guess we'll look at that when we go to the menu. The only problem is it's a set price menu.

Barry Conrad
You didn't like those usually, but you're making an exception.

Melanie Avalon
But I was looking at it last night, because now I look at the menus ahead of time. I didn't actually look at it, but I made sure that it was there.

And it looked like it had a lot of options. So shall we pull up the menu?

Barry Conrad
Let's go, I'm going to click on this dinner menu, looking at the dinner menu.

Melanie Avalon
Like there's like a lot of options, it's not just like two options.

Barry Conrad
Looking here, it looks pretty good at $72 an adult. That's pretty good. It's pretty cheap for it

Melanie Avalon
43 for a child. So Okay, what appetizer would you pick?

Barry Conrad
Hmm. I have to go with two. I'm definitely going to go with the blue crab bisque. I do like a crab bisque and that is finished with brandy, crème fraiche, chive oil, and tuna tartar.

Dijonay's chopped egg, olive tepenade, and black olive oil tartines. That sounds really good. What about you, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
So are we ordering, are we going to order like an extra meal for the table?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we have to, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I was okay, I was also gonna get the tuna tartare.

Barry Conrad
Oh really?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. They have wait we talked about escargot. Do you like forgot? Did you like escargot?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well yeah, okay, I would try the again. I mean it's not not not mad about it, but I'd go

Melanie Avalon
No, we can just get double tune on then.

Barry Conrad
You can't have too much good tuna, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
I've just never had escargot, but.

Barry Conrad
Never.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-mm. It's snails, right?

Barry Conrad
It is. It's good. It's not my favorite thing to order if there's other things there, but it's still great to try if you haven't tried it before.

Melanie Avalon
Meh, I'll just have more tuna tartar. My version, they can deconstruct it, so I'll have deconstructed tuna tartar, which that's the way, friends, you can always have them, like, you know, make adjustments for you.

The good thing about Disney is they're very accommodating with adjustments.

Barry Conrad
Are they really?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm, yes, very much so.

Barry Conrad
What are you eyeing, Mel, for the, they've got this terminology incorrect here, entrees.

Melanie Avalon
Correct terminology, thank you, entrees. Probably, I feel like I'd have to go with the, unless I'm like craving something else, the grilled filet mignon, which comes with garlic confit mashed potatoes, Harry Cottvert's and brandy peppercorn sauce.

And I would ask if I could instead just get it with steamed spinach and cooked, please, blue, as blue as you will bring it to me.

Barry Conrad
Of course, no other way for melanovalent blue. There's a couple really good things here. I like the look of the dry aged duroc pork chop. That looks so good.

It's garlic, confit, mashed potatoes, root vegetables, and whole grain mustard sauce. That sounds like a party in my mouth. That sounds really good. I actually had mustard the other day, Mel, with a meal and I forgot. I kind of forgot. You kind of forget that mustard is there as a condiment.

Melanie Avalon
I love mustard. I went through a mustard phase because I didn't like it growing up either. And then I realized how delicious it is.

And I went through a phase where I bought all the mustards because there's all the different types. There's ones with whole grains, the bigger grains, and then some with turmeric and some with different spices. I don't know. At the whole foods like mustard section, I just go to town. I even try to make my own.

Barry Conrad
make your own. How do you even go about doing that?

Melanie Avalon
I don't even remember if it worked. So you get, oh, yeah, you get mustard seeds, and then you grind them, and then you mix them with water.

I don't even remember how it ended up. So clearly, it was not too much of a success.

Barry Conrad
But yeah must that looks good and then i reckon i can't do one i just have to do something else as well the drive to a pork chop.

Melanie Avalon
And how are you getting it cooked?

Barry Conrad
Well, with pork, I'm a bit more cautious, so I'd probably say medium, minimum for me, I reckon. Okay. Yeah, it's different. Different to beef, you know, for me.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, listeners can check out the episode where we talked all about cooking different meats. That was actually really interesting. I learned so much.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And then also have to go with the pan roasted Arctic char, roasted potatoes, charred tomatoes, shaved fennel, and citrus caper brown butter. That sounds like a great pairing and a good change of pace with the pork.

What about you, Mel? Are you going to have the one or are you going to have another little entree?

Melanie Avalon
I'm just looking up Arctic char because I always see it at Whole Foods and it looks so similar to salmon and I always stare at it and I'm like, is that really Arctic char or is it salmon?

I will... Oh, they have enhancements too. Did you see that? Ooh. Okay, wait. So I'm adding to my steak. I'm adding to my steak. They have sauteed shrimp with citrus butter. I'm going to just add, if I can get like non-sautéed, if I can just add shrimp.

Barry Conrad
You know, same. I would just have that like two rounds of that two servings of that

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, here's what I'll do. I'll get two orders so then for dessert I'll have another entree which would probably be the pork chop as well except if they'll give it to me medium rare and also plain please and I want the I do want the mustard sauce on the side or maybe just mustard depends what's in the sauce.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because you don't know what's in it. It could be like a whole plethora of things.

Melanie Avalon
I probably asked for, yeah, if I could just get some of that whole grain mustard that they made the sauce with. Mustard's really good.

Barry Conrad
I wonder if they have the whole grain, like what sort of mustard specifically it is. I'm curious. If they what? Like what kind, like if they use.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Good question.

Barry Conrad
What about the desserts?

Melanie Avalon
Again, I'm going to get just another entree type situation, maybe that pork chop or more shrimp. Maybe they'll get more shrimp for dessert. What are you going to get?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the crème brûlée tot.

Melanie Avalon
Barry, but do you see what's on here?

Barry Conrad
Oren's Custard, Passion Fruit, Merengue, and Chantilly... What's Chantilly Cr-

Melanie Avalon
What is that? Chantilly cream. It's like homemade whipped cream. But do you see what's on the menu?

Barry Conrad
Hey, I'm not gonna just get the one thing, but do you see what's here?

Melanie Avalon
that I'm so excited about.

Barry Conrad
Is it down below somewhere?

Melanie Avalon
No, it's right in front of you, it's right there.

Barry Conrad
Crème brûlée blooming rose filled with the gray star, the blooming rose.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you must not be a Disney fan.

Barry Conrad
Okay, see the fact that that didn't really jump out at me.

Melanie Avalon
You still don't see the gray stuff? Okay, so, you know, be our guest, the song, be our guest, try the gray stuff, it's delicious.

Barry Conrad
Oh, okay. Yes, okay. Now, do you know that line? I didn't catch on when I first read it.

Melanie Avalon
something with the dishes, try the gray stuff, it's delicious, so they have the gray stuff.

Barry Conrad
So I wonder what the gray stuff is.

Melanie Avalon
It's funny because I always thought the gray stuff in that song was a savory item, but they've turned it into a dessert and apparently it's amazing. Apparently it's like a cookies and cream like moose thing.

Barry Conrad
YUM!

Melanie Avalon
That sounds amazing. It looks really amazing.

Barry Conrad
I feel bad for not recognising the reference, but now I get it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you've lost all credibility. You're gonna have to work your way back up.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, now I know the great stuff and then there's also like chocolate cake topped with the great stuff too, so that works for me too.

Melanie Avalon
But yeah, yeah. Do you see any cocktails that you would like?

Barry Conrad
I do. I'm going to go for the Handsome Brute. That's a cool name.

It's Tito's Handmade Vodka, Shambord Liqueur, Pomegranate Juice, and Lemon Juice garnished with a Sugared Rim and Raspberries. It's a drink of the place, of the moment, so I'm going to have that just to kind of get amongst it. And then also I would probably, not probably, I would also get a beautiful white wine, which I'm trying to find down here if there is one.

Melanie Avalon
They have a French Chardonnay. I like it because the wine is French. Like I actually might be able, I doubt these are organic, but.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll do a French chardonnay. I think that'd be really delicious. A bottle of that. It could be nice.

Oh, they've got pinaigruisier as well. Oh, pinaigruis. They do? Mm-hmm. Where? Sparkling and wines.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, there's a longer list. Oh, this is exciting because they actually have, they just have a lot more wines than a lot of the restaurants in Disney, like as far as like French wines and such.

Oh, can I tell you something really fun really quickly? Tell me. You might've seen it on Instagram, but I went to a, maybe I'll save this story for next time. I'll save it. I'll save the story for beginning of next show. Okay. So yeah, are you down?

Barry Conrad
I'm so down, I'm so down, this is very, very exciting.

Melanie Avalon
And apparently the beast like walks through the ballroom, but he doesn't talk to anybody like it's not character dining You don't get to actually interact with the characters

Barry Conrad
That's kind of mysterious though, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's kind of scary sounding. I think I'd be scared. He's like a frightening character.

Barry Conrad
He is not a very inviting character, it's very threatening.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-mm, he's so pretty though when he transforms.

Barry Conrad
I see this goes to show I don't really watch the reenactments, but has there been a live version of it? There probably has been.

Melanie Avalon
Oh yes.

Barry Conrad
Who plays the beast?

Melanie Avalon
Well, you know who Bell is, Emma Watson?

Barry Conrad
Ah, that tracks, of course.

Melanie Avalon
The Beast is Dan Stevens, like from, isn't he from that show that everybody watches, Downton Abbey?

Barry Conrad
Okay. Alright, I'm looking at him now.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. I love that movie.

Barry Conrad
Downton Heavy is great.

Melanie Avalon
Downton Abbey, I like, but I really like the Beauty and the Beast movie. I don't agree with the casting of Emma Watson, but that's okay.

So, well, listeners, friends, we hope you enjoyed your time with us today as a, I don't think I've said this yet, so not a reminder, as a informational moment. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 472. They will have links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And then you can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. You can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. I think that's all the things.

Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Listeners, thank you once again for tuning in. We really appreciate everyone to be listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next week.

Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week!

Barry Conrad
Goodbye.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!