Welcome to Episode 473 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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Featured Restaurant: The Grill
STUDIES:
Food choice mimicry on a large university campus
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 473 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 473 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for asking.
I shared some news last week, and I've got some more good news this week, which I'm super, super stoked about. I have signed on to be the host and face of Australia House at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Wait. Okay. So you were, because you were going already, right? Is this like a new development with what you're doing?
Barry Conrad
I wasn't sure, like the G'day USA Art Scala was all part of that because the American Australian Association orchestrated that and I was maybe going to, I was in talks to be the host. I guess I can say this now, but it actually happened at the lot, like, you know, very, very recently. So it's like, it just happened. I just announced it and I'm heading to Austin in a few days and I'm, which is so crazy.
And if listeners don't know what that is, South by Southwest is basically this massive annual festival in Austin where like leaders in music, film, tech, hospitality, wellness, they all come together. Like it's one of those, the biggest gatherings of creatives and industry people in the world, 300 to 500,000 people every year and it's, you never know, quite know what you're going to see or what's going to blow up. Like people like Billy Eilish, Dua Lipa, John Mayer, Amy Winehouse all played there early on. Twitter was that big breakout room there too and basically Australia House is basically the official Australian hub there during the festival. So it's a space where a lot of Aussie artists, companies and creatives showcase what they're doing and there's like panel discussions, film and TV panel discussions, performances, networking events, dinners, which you'd love now, all that kind of thing. So it's highlighting Aussie talent and connecting it all with a big international industry. And I'm so stoked. This is like, it's such a huge opportunity for me and especially being almost five and a half, six months into living here, I feel really happy about this and I'm just so proud to be representing Australia here as well. Again, I can't get away from Australia, so I'm really excited.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, congratulations, that is so epic. So by the way, I have a friend, probably have a lot of friends going to South by Southwest.
I didn't realize, I always associated it with primarily like the film side of things. I didn't realize there's a whole entire, like you mentioned, but a whole wellness aspect to it. Like they're having my friend, Andrew McConnell, who I've had on the Biohacking podcast a few times, he's going and he was telling me all the, like all the guests they're having who are like in the wellness sphere. And it's, it's crazy. Like it's like Rhonda Patrick. And he mentioned so many people that I was familiar with. So yeah, I didn't realize that it brought together all those different aspects. Anyway, so as the host, what are you doing? Like what is that entail?
Barry Conrad
So basically, I'll be the face of the Australian hub there. Like Australia, it's called Australia House, and I'll be helping to moderate panel discussions, introduce all the guests that are there. It's so cool. And also get to do even some banter with BCS stuff, like having Vox Puffs of people talking to different bartenders, how they make their drinks, Aussie-inspired food. It's very exciting because it's like bars, what I already sort of do, and just in a bigger platform. So it's really cool.
I'm really, really, really happy to be going. And I've never been to Austin. Have you been to Austin before?
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh, actually it's like the place I've been the most because of the conferences. You're going to love it.
I think I've been there maybe three times and then I'll be going again in May for the Beyond Conference now is what it's called. Wait, where are you staying?
Barry Conrad
Actually, Mel, I'm so sorry. I already knew that. Of course you've been to Austin. You told me that you've been there before.
Yeah, it's my first time. I'm staying at, I guess I can say that now because it's going to be in the future, but the Lauren and it's this luxury hotel. It's famously by this lake as well. And it's only a couple of miles from the actual craziness and the excitement of the festival. So I get to have this respite at this beautiful hotel who I partner with as well. Shout out to the Lauren and I can't wait to be over there and create some great content for them. And just, yeah, I'm so excited.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, that is so epic. Whoa, and like right off of the heels of going to the G'day event, you're just killing it.
Barry Conrad
Well, I just, yeah, I just feel like, you know, those things where it's like, is it going to happen? It's not going to happen. It's that kind of moment, you know.
Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. You're going to get to meet so many incredible people. You're going to kill it. You're going to rock it. Congratulations.
Barry Conrad
Thank you. I wish you were going. There will be other things.
Melanie Avalon
I know. How many days are you there?
Barry Conrad
only a few days. It's really short. All the prep for, you know, how it always is like so much prayer for like a moment, right? But I'm going to soak it all in.
Melanie Avalon
That's so exciting. Wait, what day do you leave? This week.
Barry Conrad
this weekend.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see all your posts on Instagram and hear all about it.
Barry Conrad
I can't wait to. What about you? How are you?
Melanie Avalon
I am good. Life is good. I have one update, but I'll save it for next week.
I'll just tell the funny story that I gave as a teaser from last time, which is that you would have loved this. There's this place here called Be No Venue and they have wine tasting classes and things like that. And so they got me tickets to one of the classes to promote them. And it's so funny because it was like fundamentals of wine level one, there's like 20 people there. Everybody there was like much older. I was, I don't know, I felt like I looked like the, you know, influencer girl who probably doesn't know much about wine. And I felt like I had to prove myself is the point.
So the way have you been to like a wine tasting class? Like were you like learn stuff?
Barry Conrad
I've been to like a beer tasting, like I've been to wine tasting, but not...
Melanie Avalon
like education class. Yeah. So this was like, I mean, again, it was like level one. So it wasn't anything too intense.
There were nine different wine tastings, two of which were blind at the end. And they taught us just basic tasting things. And at the beginning, so there were three glasses. And the way they did it was they would fill three tastes at a time. And then we would taste one, learn about it, and then dump it or finish it. And then they would refill it for the next taste. I don't know what happened, but I got confused about the order of what was in the glasses. So there was a moment, like early on, where we're like, OK, we're going to taste the Chardonnay or whatever. So I pick up the one I thought was what we're supposed to be tasting, but it was the wrong glass. And I'm just sitting there swirling it around, doing my thing. And not the instructor who was teaching us, but the other guy who worked there, he comes over and he's like, ma'am, that's not the right one. And I was like, oh my god. Because literally my fear, I was like, they're going to think I'm so stupid. So then I was like, I have to redeem myself. Because I was convinced. I was like, they think I'm really, really not that smart. So they told us there was going to be an exam at the end. And it was like an oral exam. So you just yelled out the answer. And every answer, I was on fire. They were like, I got, yeah, I killed it. So I won. So then I redeemed myself. Oh man. They're like, what, like what Valley was, you know, this way I'm like, Laura Valley? Like what fruit is most common Pinot Noir? Cherry. Like I was like on top.
Barry Conrad
I'm trying to picture your face like when you first felt like you don't like how
Melanie Avalon
I'm embarrassed. I know. I know. I was. I don't know. And I shouldn't be that embarrassed, but I was so embarrassed.
Like so embarrassed. Why? Because I was, I made a really stupid mistake and I'm like, you know.
Barry Conrad
But you redeemed yourself. You smashed it. You really did.
Melanie Avalon
I did. So take that. You can always redeem yourself is the point.
Barry Conrad
yelling at all the answers. That's great.
Melanie Avalon
But I really recommend being a venue, they're amazing. And if you're in Atlanta, they have like wine on tap, so you can like do tastings where you get like a card and you like, you know, can like pour out just small tastes of wine and stuff. So, and that's actually where I took my W-Set, my Wine Spirit Education Trust Level Two. I took my exam there back in the day.
So, yeah, now I'm thinking I might, I wish there was more time, but taking this class, I was like, I should go for Level Three of the W-Set. Do it, do it, do it. Well, first of all, it's, it would be, Level Two was really difficult. This is, again, this is different. So like the class I went to was just like a class, a local class they were doing. I'm talking about like one of the main wine education programs out there. And it's very difficult and like Level Two was hard enough. And so Level Three would be, it would be so much time and money and.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
It's like, why is there any more time, any more time? So many things I would do, but that's my story.
Barry Conrad
It's a great story. Thank you for sharing. That was so funny.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you for being here. Congrats again on Austin. Cannot wait to hear all about it. You should come to the BEYOND Conference in May.
Barry Conrad
You know what, let's discuss after because that's actually a great idea.
Melanie Avalon
actually is a great idea. Or you should come to Eudaimonia in November, which is in West Palm Beach. Which one's better? They're both really amazing.
Dave's conference is massive. So, I mean, like, everybody's there. It's huge. Eudaimonia is like really high calibers, a lot of the same brands, a lot of the same guest speakers, but not as overwhelming because it's like, but it's still pretty intense. I'm just happier at Eudaimonia because it's not in May in Austin, the heat. It's West Palm in November. Have you been to West Palm?
Barry Conrad
I have not, but I've just made a note of both of them now so I can actually have a look.
Melanie Avalon
We should discuss. We could get you tickets, I'm sure, for...
Barry Conrad
Either. It's so exciting. And then we have to meet, obviously, before that, or we might even meet in one of these. No, surely not. We can't be. It has to be before that.
Melanie Avalon
Well, I don't know. Don't you kind of want to meet meet me when I'm like in my best vibe, which is like in the winter.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, actually, because in the summer, you might be like, hey, great to see you, great to finally meet you, not excited at all.
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm always happy and everything. I'm just saying I'm really happy in the winter.
Barry Conrad
And then you won't be like, Barry, things change from the car to the entrance. It's like, wait, what?
You'd be like, everything's changed. Like you went from the car to like the door. I'd be like, no, because it's somewhere it's different.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm not a fan. I don't like the elements. Okay, shall we jump into some fasting-related things?
Barry Conrad
I think we should. Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome, awesome. So let me send you, to start things off, I have a study for us to talk about. So this study is called food choice mimicry on a large university campus. It is from December, 2024.
So this was a study that was conducted on a large Swiss university campus. And what they wanted to do was they wanted to see what are the odds of you buying a food item when somebody else, like right in front of you, buys that item? Like how influenced are we from other people's buying choices when it comes to food? They looked at different food types. They looked at time of day. They looked at different genders. They looked at if it was staff versus students. And they had so many data points. So they had, how many data points did they have? The equivalent, okay. It was data from 2010 to 2018. It was 18 million transactions that they looked at, 38.7,000 users. So this is like a massive data set that they looked at.
And so what they did was they broke it down into 509,000. They called it dyads, but it's basically like pairs of people. So like people who bought items back to back at the same register within five minutes, who also often ended up eating together at least 10 times. So these people had to know each other, presumably, because they at least ate together 10 times. And then they had to be like back to back when they were purchasing. So it's not just like a random stranger in front of you. It's somebody who you at least have eaten with at some point. What they found was, oh, and then they also broke it down into the anchor items and the addition items. So the anchor items was like the main meal. So like, was it a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian meal at lunch? And then at breakfast, was it coffee or tea as like the main thing? And then the additions were at lunch, condiments, salad, pastry, desserts, soup, soft drinks, and fruit. And at breakfast, the additions were fruit, desserts, and pastries. And they found that across all of the 13 types of additions, the person, if the person in front of you bought something, you are more likely to buy it yourself.
So the way it actually like panned out as far as like the intensity of that, overall it was a 14.2% percentage points of a risk difference. And the relative risk was 1.83. But what that translates to like practically would be like, if somebody got a dessert and your chances of getting the dessert are 17% to start with, if the person in front of you gets one as well gets one, then that jumps up to like 31% like that you're likely to get it. So the biggest effects were seen in condiments, which was a 23.9% difference with points. So like that much more likely to purchase the condiment if somebody in front of you did. The least of the additions was soft drinks. So, which I find really interesting. I guess people, so people are more likely, if somebody in front of you gets some ketchup, you're more likely to get ketchup. If the person in front of you gets like a Coke or a Sprite, you are more likely to get that as well, but not as much as like the condiments.
Melanie Avalon
The biggest in the breakfast, the ordering was, people were much more likely pastries. So pastries was the highest for breakfast to add on and then fruit and then dessert.
And then for afternoon, the biggest difference was, oh, again, pastries. And then, fruit and then desserts. And they also found that the anchor one also affected it. So if somebody got vegetarian or non-vegetarian, that made you more likely to do that. Or if they got coffee versus tea, that made you more likely to get it. They found that the biggest effect was when it was students and students, they mimicked each other the most. And the lowest was staff and staff. So staff people were not as much mimicking each other. For students, it was 17.89%. And for staff to staff, it was only 9.66%. There was no difference between gender of people. Let's see if there's any other differences. And then, oh, the time lag also affected it. So the shorter the amount of time between the person in front of you purchasing, the more likely you were to mimic them. And then they also tried looking at those dyads, so those couples that were connected together because they dined together, but not ordering back to back. And there was no effect. And there was no effect with strangers. So you had to be back to back with the people to have this effect. They actually made a lot of interesting suggestions about how this could be used practically for encouraging healthy food choices, which was something they had suggested was if they could have a system where people order their food before going in line, then people would not be subconsciously affected by the other people, which I guess on the one hand, it can be beneficial if it influences you in a healthy way, but not if it's soft drinks and desserts and pastries, not so much. So they were saying if there could be a way that people could order their food and then pick it up rather than getting it in line, they also said maybe it could be helpful if they did staff days where staff ate with students, and then the staff's healthy food choices could influence the students' choices, and then they could even have a reward system where the staff gets some sort of reward if the student picks something healthy.
That's so interesting. I know. It was really, really interesting. So the ways that we... I think this is... Well, there's a whole thing we can talk about is just how much other people's food choices affect our food choices. And then I think it would go both ways as far as if you're doing intermittent fasting. This could also explain why it might be more difficult if you're doing fasting and your friends aren't doing fasting because we tend to mimic each other. Also because they saw it more in the young students rather than the older adults, the staff, that people who are younger in general with their food choices and their fasting might struggle more with mimicking other people. And I also just wanted to talk about, but I'll stop talking, but I'm also really curious. I was thinking about me. It's funny because I am so unaffected by other people's food choices. I literally just eat whatever I want.
Melanie Avalon
But I'm trying to think back. How long have I been like that? When I was younger, was I mimicking people? When I was in college, was I mimicking people more? And I would wonder also if this would be affected.
They didn't do this, but I wish they had data on what the students... Were the students following a diet or not? Because would that affect things? I do wonder if you have rules in your head about what you eat or donate? Does that affect how much you're influenced by other people? So yeah, that's that study. What are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
I think this is super interesting and it's something that you sort of, well, I've observed happened in real time, but maybe I'm oblivious to whether or not I do that. You know what I mean?
Like, cause I see, no, cause I see, you see people copying each other. Oh, I'll get the same. Or it's almost like, you know, the person that orders first sets the tone kind of thing, you know, for the table, especially if you, like, as you said, like there's got to be relationship there, you know, a certain kind of a relationship. It's not just strangers necessarily. And if they would anchor it like, cool, well, I'll just get the same thing. Or that's like the thing to get. It wasn't surprising to me about the age because maybe I was guessing as soon as you said that, that they're more socially influenced in general, cause they like the younger people and they just, you know, would be more effect, like more susceptible to disorder and whatever else is getting. And then also made me think when you shared that, that about restaurant tables, because I'm swear that I swear that I've seen people like order fries or dessert and then suddenly some people are running and get all have what they're having kind of thing. It's, it's interesting.
Like it's, it's, it gives a scientific explanation for that rather than, oh, that's a fluke or like, do you think that happens when we eat with our friends? I mean, you said that you, you're pretty unfazed with that. Like it was order what you want, but I wonder like in friends groups and stuff as well, if someone orders something indulgent, uh, why not? Yeah, I'll do it too. You know, rather than just stick into their guns, you know.
Melanie Avalon
No, like, actually, that's such a good point because I at least, okay, because like, I have to think back so far because I've been so, I don't want to say neurotic, but I've been so intense about what I eat for so long that it's been a while that I have felt influenced by other people with my food choices. But I'm thinking back to like, growing up, and like, if it came to like dessert time, for example, I would maybe feel guilty about eating dessert, but then it's like, if somebody else is eating it too, then it's like, oh, it's okay, you know, like, cuz like, the one person will like want the dessert, it's like, well, do you want it to okay, and then like, it's like, oh, then you're like, it like alleviates guilt in some way, for at least for eating like indulgent type related things, I think.
But it's also just interesting that, yeah, I'm trying to think, I wonder like going back to like, when I used to eat at the high school cafeteria, like, did I get based on the person in front of me? If I had sat with them, if they were like one of my, you know, within my friend's fear, did I would I adjust what I was eating, I was probably so subconscious, like people don't even realize they're doing this, you know.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it really kind of does show how eating can be so much more socially, sort of like, almost contagious.
Melanie Avalon
Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly.
Barry Conrad
And what you said about the guilt piece is really true, even in the reverse, in a way. I remember one of my ex-girlfriends, we went to this Japanese restaurant, well, it was more like a casual lunch place. And I, without even thinking, I just like sashimi, so I just ordered some sashimi. And she ordered something that was like into those fried gyozas kind of thing. Fried what? Is it gyoza? You say gyoza?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I don't know. Wait, what is that?
Barry Conrad
It's sort of like a dumpling kind of a thing.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know what that is. How do you spell it?
Barry Conrad
Gyoza, it's a G-Y-O-Z-A. Oh.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know what that is. Okay.
Barry Conrad
Yes so and then you know having that and then like the guilt keeps like no you just have what you want kind of thing so i think it happens in reverse as well like if you're not eating the same thing. It's like when you when you have a certain relationship with some people it matters like what they order you know like you know.
The reverse as well yeah it's interesting yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember, and I've talked about this before, and I talk about it in my book, but I used to have this friend that would go with us to Florida, so we would eat like a lot of meals together. And she was always getting ready for her soccer camp. And so she was always like eating really healthy. And it used to bother me, it bothered me so bad.
Because when we would go to the restaurants, she would always get a chicken, a Caesar salad with chicken every time. And I was like, why is she not? Because it, yeah, and it really shows you like how much people's insecurities about food or projections onto other people are just about them. Like that was just me being insecure about what I was eating. It wasn't about her, like she should be able to eat whatever she wants. You know, I'm just thinking, I guess I don't, I'm not really, I'm gonna start noticing this. I guess I'm not really in cafeteria situations, which is where it's more prevalent. But I'm gonna start noticing like at group dinners, if people, like when you're going around and ordering, if people seem to adjust at all.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, I see it all the time, like going to group dinners and stuff. It's just, yeah, we'll just get the same.
Like, you know, sometimes people have, maybe it's decision fatigue. Maybe it's just safety because someone they trust is getting something. It's, it just points to how like environment is such a big driver, like without us even realizing a food, like how people order, you know? Like the cues around that. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
It's so interesting because like last week we talked about emotional eating, so like emotions affecting what you're eating and then this is about environment and yeah, this is why I just like having like having my fasting window and I like having for me knowing what I eat and what I don't eat because then I then I don't get influenced by like I'm literally not going to eat something that I don't want to eat.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, speaking of fasting, I wonder then, and not that I never want to be someone who tries to parade or preach anything, but I wonder if without even realizing if you're intermittent fasting, if that sets an example or if that people might naturally copy the way you're eating. Do you know if it could be used in a healthy way, like your habits, I wonder if it works the same way or if it's more just like food choices, you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think I think it more often creates the negative mirror projection situation, which is unfortunate, but I think it because okay, here's the here's the example like, well, now I'm thinking this through in real time. So if people are like all ordering different, but we're all eating, we're all like, we're all eating, choosing like a healthier choice.
I think that's more likely to maybe encourage somebody to do the same compared to like, I'm fasting and they're eating. I think my experience, it tends to just more annoy people, because it looks like a like a reflection on them, even though it's not like it's not about them, but that's the way it presents sometimes.
Barry Conrad
I totally agree.
Melanie Avalon
It's so freeing when I meet somebody who might not do fasting, or maybe they do, but just whenever I meet somebody who just literally doesn't care. Because I go to a lot of situations where I'm not eating and other people are eating, and usually I'm drinking because it's going to be early in the evening, but it's so interesting to see how different people react to that.
Barry Conrad
Yep. Food is a complex beast. It's so many things woven around it. So much conditioning, so many patterns of thinking individually and projected by other people, what we see on social media, what we see on TV. And it's just, it's complicated for a lot of people.
Melanie Avalon
I get so grateful, like so grateful when I have a friend who like just literally doesn't care, you know, and like doesn't give me grief, doesn't, doesn't even question it. It's just like, okay, that's what you're doing. Like I am so grateful for those people. I'm like, thank you for not like making this a whole thing.
Barry Conrad
Cause it's not really an old thing at all. I also liked how, like I found it interesting how subtle it is too.
Like, you know, you think you might think you're choosing independently, but even didn't you say like, sometimes people would buy the same sort of category, not necessarily the same type of food, like, or rather buy the same type of food, but not the exact same thing. So it's like even.
Melanie Avalon
Right. Yeah. It looks like pastries.
Barry Conrad
They're like nudging your brain without even realizing it. Yeah, that's, that's kind of creepy. Or fruit. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, the social influence of people to people, and it's not just food stuff, it's like so much behavior. We tend to mimic other people. We don't realize it. It's subconscious.
Barry Conrad
Where does it come from? It's so crazy. It's so interesting.
Melanie Avalon
It's an evolutionary drive to like form bonds, be liked, be accepted in the clan. It's why people like, that's why you can like look at two people at a table and kind of just tell from their body language if they're like into each other or not, because people who are either friends or romantic, whatever it is, like, do they like each other?
Do they want to be liked by the other person? Like you can tell by their body language and how they're, you know, acting. So fun times with that study.
Barry Conrad
That was super awesome. It was so interesting. And I'm like my brain, so I'm still thinking about it.
Melanie Avalon
and we're going to start seeing it now. We're going to start looking around.
Man, if I was like a lunch lady, I could do my own experiment and watch all the kiddos ordering their stuff. Shall we answer some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
So, okay, we have a long question, lots of good stuff in here. So this is from Sandra. Her subject was actually your book in Spanish. But the email says, Sandra says, I gotta say, I absolutely love your podcast and have been binge listening. I have so many things to say, ha ha. I first heard of, and maybe we can actually do these like one at a time, she said, I first heard of IF in 2017 from a coworker and thought that was the worst thing you could do to your body. We should eat five to seven times a day, and the morning meal is the most important ever. That's what she thought before.
I kind of ignored her, but then I started hearing about IF again last year, and I had to do some research about it because it honestly went against everything I've always believed in. It might be important to say that I'm Mexican and I came to the US to study in September 2017. So culturally, the way we eat is super different. I listened to Dr. Fung's The Obesity Code and Jen's Delay Don't Deny, and I did a ton of research. This was just too good to be true. I started my IF lifestyle in April of 2019 and haven't stopped since. I lost 18 pounds in the first three months, and I've plateaued for another six months. And now starting this year, I've actually gone up 10 pounds. I do the weigh daily and average weekly technique. I'm horrified by this, and I have no idea what's going on. My diet hasn't really changed, nor has my eating window, which is three to five hours daily. However, I should point out that I've been through a lot of emotional stress lately. I graduated and as an international student, had been job hunting since December, trying to stay in the States. I finally got a job and I started February 1st, plus my relationship just ended as well. So lots of huge life changes.
Any suggestions to get back on track with the weight loss? I'm 29 years old, 5'1", and about 31% body fat weighing 128 pounds right now. And she has more things, but maybe we can start with that. What are your thoughts on that?
Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for the thoughtful and generous message and I could really feel the excitement in what you wrote and hearing that you've been binge listening to the show, it means a lot to both of us, I can say, and there's something really special about knowing that these conversations are traveling with people on their drives and they commute to their work and their workouts while they're figuring out their own fasting adventure. And I love also that your path into fasting, hearing about that, because it sounds really familiar, at least to me as well, that moment when someone first mentions IF or in my case when I read it and you think, whoa, what is this?
And then, you know, and for decades we're told we need to eat constantly, I totally get that five or six times a day, there was a point, there was something called the body for life situation, which I did, which is six meals a day. So I totally understand, you never skip breakfast, always keep metabolism spiked and whatnot. So when fasting sort of comes into the equation, Sandra, it can feel almost like a backwards unlearning thing. I really admire that instead of dismissing it despite your like, you know, you come from a different background and the way you eat and the way you are, you did your research and you got curious and that's great. And the obesity code, Jason Fong, it's awesome. Delayed and denied, Jim Stevens, like you gave yourself permission to sort of question things at least and dig into something different. And, you know, your results in the beginning are a reflection of that. And also typical of what people see in the beginning. So an initial wet and drop can, initial drop of wet, I should say, can happen quickly. And then some people do experience that plateau. Sandra, I know it's really frustrating and you can feel like, what am I doing that's wrong? What am I doing that's not right? But they can. They're also pretty normal and common, like your body doesn't lose weight. Our bodies don't lose weight in a perfect straight line. It's not linear, you know, it adapts, it recalibrates, sometimes it holds steady for a while before it shifts again in another direction. And the weight gain you're saying here that this year, especially with what you're saying, like the context of everything you've been through. So it stood out because you're graduating, stress are trying to get a new job as an international student. That's tough. Navigating immigration uncertainty, new job, going through the end of a relationship. That's all big things. So when stress level spikes, Sandra, your hormones can shift, cortisol can go all over the place, sleep can really suffer and often does, emotional strain is going to skyrocket, all of those things they do and can influence our weight. Even if your eating window hasn't changed, even if you feel like you're eating, quote unquote, like clockwork or nothing's changed with your eating. Our internal, sort of like an internal environment, like our body's environment, like that can change so much.
Barry Conrad
So the first thing I want to say is, please don't panic or assume like anything's wrong or something's broken. You know, I would say focus on sleep, focus on your emotional well-being first, some sort of movement, some sort of exercise that feels supportive rather than like you're punishing yourself through what you're going through or, and also meals that are nourishing for you during your eating window as well.
I mean, weight loss is, it can often like resume once your nervous system feels safe. Like a lot of things do, can just reset again or find a equilibrium. So you're still at a healthy weight range for your height. So it doesn't mean that your goals, yeah, they're not, your goals aren't not valid. It just means that your body might resist some changes more than it did earlier.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love everything you said so much. And the first thing that really spoke to me, and Barry was talking about this, but the stress piece cannot be underestimated for its effects on your body, your metabolism, you know, how it's dealing with your energy levels and your weight loss or weight gain. I mean, you don't mention sleep. You just mentioned the emotional stress, but I can imagine that might be affecting your sleep as well. And, you know, sleep disruption has massive effects on our hunger levels, on our hunger hormones. So like, it makes you have higher levels of ghrelin, which is our hunger hormone. It makes us feel hungry. It actually lowers our leptin, which makes us feel full. It can make us actually increase our calorie intake. And we might not even be realizing it. Even like one week of poor sleep, for example, can reduce insulin sensitivity by around 20 to 30%. So if it's affecting your sleep, I would not underestimate what that might be doing with everything.
As far as the fasting, like Barry was saying, like weight loss isn't linear. And it sounds like for this, you know, you lost weight that you plateaued, then you regained it. It is important to remember that when people first start fasting, they often do experience that large push in the beginning. And then, and plateau, that's not uncommon. Gaining it back and gaining it back again, like I said, can be due to a lot of the other factors that are happening. What I would suggest is either you could adjust your fasting window, but if you're like happy with it and how it's fitting in your life, don't underestimate the power of food choices. So because you don't mention at all what you're eating. So I don't know if you tend to eat culturally more. So like traditional, like Mexican type foods, which can be pretty high in like carbs and fat and things like that. So the choices of the food that you actually eat within your window, it's not about like restricting or anything like that. But if you're eating, you know, processed foods, if you like make them eat less processed foods, or if you focus on protein, like protein first, we talk about this all the time. But like leading with protein can have a huge effect. But I would just I would take a breather, I would stay the course, and know that you can't like things can change in the way that make you feel happier about everything. And like Barry said, you technically, and I don't really put a lot of stock in BMI. Technically, you are in normal range of BMI. I understand that like 31% body fat that you might want lower body fat and a lower BMI as well. You know, you're not like morbidly obese or anything like that. So I think you can make a lot of beneficial changes with some looking at the whole lifestyle. And this question was sent to us quite a while ago. So hopefully, hopefully now everything went well with your, you know, being the student here and trying to stay in the States. I can't even imagine how stressful that must be like that. That just thinking about it, like I feel the stress in my body and then the relationship, like you said, so many life changes.
Melanie Avalon
So sending you love and good vibes, stay the course, look at the food choices you're making inside of your eating window, focus on sleep, focus on stress reduction, and and keep on caving on. So, okay, the next part of her question, she says, now the point I actually wanted to get to, I just ordered what when wine and I can't wait to get it and devour it.
But I also really want to share all this wealth of information with my family, but they're all back in Mexico and do not speak English, please, please, please, could you consider having your books available in Spanish. So what's really interesting is I so for once I traditionally published my book, all of that is like, I don't have any, like, I didn't have any say in translations or anything like that. Like, I don't have the, I mean, it's ironic, because it's my book, but the publisher really makes all those decisions. So I think it only got translated into one other language, which was, I should remember, I think you got translated into like check, which is like very random. But I wonder now because again, this was sent to us so long ago, I wonder now with AI if can you like auto translate books.
Barry Conrad
I'm guessing, yeah, surely. Yeah, of course.
Melanie Avalon
So it might not even be as much of an issue anymore now. I haven't even looked into that because I wish I was multilingual. I just speak English.
Not to go on a tangent, but I think about how growing up and going to all these different countries where they spoke different languages and we had to have a physical book and translate things, and now there's just apps for that. I haven't used them though. Have you used them to translate?
Barry Conrad
The extent of that is I've tried to like, I'm trying to relearn Afrikaans again, like, you know, a bit more like my second language, but that's more, it's not really like a translation app. It's more just like a tutorial app, but yeah, there's just so much, there's so many resources now with our phones.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's wild. Sometimes I really want to, I mean, this is like a, you probably don't have the experience of like going to the nail salon, but there's like the cliche of like the nail salon and like wondering if they're talking about you because they tend to be like Korean or Asian salons.
Like sometimes I'm like, I want to like pull out an app and like see if they're talking about me.
Barry Conrad
I'm sure that there's one, I'm sure that there is one that in real time can do it.
Melanie Avalon
need a secret one that doesn't show. Thank you, Sandra, about all of that. And for wanting to share it. Oh, I do want to echo what Barry was saying at the beginning. I just love your excitement and passion about everything. And I love when people are open-minded. When you first heard of intermittent fasting, you thought it was crazy. You thought everybody should eat five to seven times a day. And the morning meal is the most important. And you changed your mind and looked into it more. So love that.
End of her email, she says, last but not least, for all the wine drinking listeners out there. Okay. She says, as a winemaker myself, which that's amazing. I wonder, like, I want to know more about how she makes wine. I can tell you that although there are many wines with a lot of additives and not so good stuff, there are also millions that are amazing, have no additives or pesticides, but are not necessarily labeled as such. Most premium wines are crafted in the most natural ways. And even if they're not certified organic or biodynamic, they utilize sustainable practices. Just wanted to let people know that they shouldn't be afraid of wine.
Thank you so much for all the love, passion, and work you put into this podcast. IF has forever changed my life and would love to help you spread the word. So yeah, publish in Spanish. Love, Sandra. So seriously, this is like one of the most amazing emails. Thank you again so much. And to comment on the wine stuff, I agree. This is why I'm always... I don't want to say necessarily that, like, quote, premium wines are more likely to be like that, because I've actually found that there are a lot of, quote, premium, like expensive wines, especially in the US. And you would assume it's like a 200 bottle of wine that it would be, and I would assume it would be like organic, but they're not, they're often not. I think European premium wines are more likely to be like this. It's so true what you're saying that a lot of them are not certified. You can usually find wines that are, you know, don't have the additives, are drier, not high in alcohol, not with the pesticides. And that's why you just got to look up the wines individually. And that's why when I see a wine list, I'm like, I look at the European ones, I look up the actual winery, I just Google, well, now I use chat GPT, I just take a screenshot and let it look it up. But there are a lot of wineries that, you know, and sometimes don't even say that they're organic, but they'll say that they, you know, use sustainable pesticides and minimal intervention in the fields. And so those are things to look for.
But I love Sandra, that you are into wine as well. And that you are a winemaker. I'm dying to know again, how you actually do that. Any thoughts from you, Barry?
Barry Conrad
So no, that's awesome that you make wine. That's not, that's not something that I expected you to say when I was reading through your question and like initially, it's just so impressive. And also we'd love to hear more about how you even fell into that or how you, yeah, tell us more that's so inspiring and cool. And I'm totally team wine all about it.
Thank you so much for your, again, for your passion and enthusiasm and your curiosity, and I have no doubt you're going to find, find your merger with, with your fasting and your eating and yeah, keep us posted, please. And thank you so much, Sandra.
Melanie Avalon
I agree. And also Barry, we should have a wine someday, make a wine someday, like a co-brand.
Barry Conrad
Yes, of course. We must. That'd be amazing. That'd be so cool.
Melanie Avalon
Maybe we can like find a pre-existing, you know, organic wine place that we like and like partner with them and do like a private label situation. That is so cool.
Barry Conrad
I would love that. Because I love my wine, you love your wine, why not?
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. All right. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
I thought you'd never ask.
Melanie Avalon
Oh man. All right. So this portion of the show is where we emphasize the importance of the eating part of your fasting, not just the fasting because so much of the magic from fasting comes from the actual eating window and the choices that you make. And it's not just about that. It's also about the community and the vibes and all the things, especially given everything we talked about in the show about the complexities of people eating.
So we like to pick a restaurant to showcase and talk about how we would break our fast. So Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
Today's restaurant, and just also ignore the first Linked ML that was from last week. This is the new Link.
Today's restaurant that I have for us is another NYC special called The Grill, and I've just sent you the Linked ML. And why this place is really good is located in the legendary Seagram Building. One of the most famous dining rooms in the world is a tribute to mid-century New York fine dining, dramatic tableside service and classic dishes, fully a la carte with lobster, prime rib, indulgent situations, apparently in a monumental cellar built for serious collectors in wine connoisseurs, and the vibe is meant to be theatrical, glamorous, grand, one of the most impressive rooms in America. So I reckon we should take a look at this menu. It looks so beautiful. It does. It really does. Look how grand it is.
Melanie Avalon
I'm looking at the the lighting looks on point.
Barry Conrad
And you know what you said, what did you say last week or the other week when you said, would you have really bad food and really good lighting or really bad lighting and really good food? And what did you say?
Melanie Avalon
I'd rather have really good lighting and really bad food.
Barry Conrad
But this plays to us against both.
Melanie Avalon
I know. They have a dress code too, so no shorts, no open-toed shoes or tank tops, no athletic wear, no baseball caps, and they can turn you away if you are not dressed for the occasion.
Barry Conrad
I like that though.
Melanie Avalon
I do too.
Barry Conrad
I think it's good. It sets a president, sets a standard and you know what you're in for. You know what I mean? Melanie Avalon, what is peaking your interest here?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I know why you picked this restaurant.
Barry Conrad
Was that?
Melanie Avalon
because it starts with oysters, clams, etc.
Barry Conrad
You haven't had clams, right? Have you told me this before? You haven't.
Melanie Avalon
I have not, which is wild because, yeah, and I forgot, are they like scallops at all? I always feel like they're like scallops, but they're not.
Barry Conrad
They're very similar to scallops, very similar consistency and taste. Yeah, they're really good. You have to do it. Pop your clam sherry. It's really good. It's really delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Well, maybe we can get some of those for the table and I can try them because they have little neck clams with Tabasco relish. I definitely want some house cured salmon from the first section. I would be curious about the selection of continental ham.
What is that? What is goose terrine? It's a pate made from goose meat.
Speaker 3
Oh, that looks good. So just the bread of some sort, right? Or cracker.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, it's often stuffed into the goose neck casing. Interesting. Yeah, so what are you getting from the first? Are you getting some of the oysters?
Barry Conrad
What do you mean? I don't like oysters.
Oh, good. I know. I love oysters. I'll get the Montauk Pearl oysters. Definitely going to get a dozen of those babies. There's some Nantucket Bay scallops. I'm surprised you didn't get any scallops, Mel, as well.
Melanie Avalon
We've talked about this. I eat so many scallops like as my dinner.
I don't really want, but well, like I would never get them as my, I don't want to say never, but I would probably never get them as my entree. But if it's like an appetizer, yeah, that could be fun. We can get some of those.
Barry Conrad
Yes, we got the Montauk Pearl oysters on the half shell, some Nantucket-based colops, Melanie's got the little neck clams, the cured salmon, and I reckon that ham looks pretty enticing. I reckon because that makes me think of mustard.
Do you ever have mustard with your ham as well, Mel?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I don't I don't eat a lot of ham. I don't know that. I mean, not since I was like little was like a sandwich with ham and mustard. Actually, I didn't eat mustard back then.
But that's when I would eat like mayonnaise and ham and turkey. Mayonnaise is such a polarizing food. What do you mean? Like people either like people hate mayonnaise.
Barry Conrad
How can you hate it? What's the hate about it?
Melanie Avalon
People either like it or they hate it, but people get like grossed out by mayonnaise.
Barry Conrad
Okay, this is my thing. If you give me a warm sandwich that's been in the backseat of a car with mayonnaise on the chicken or the egg in the sandwich, it's a hard no and it's grossed out.
But if it's chilled and it's fresh out of the fridge or out of the pantry, yeah, sign me up. It's so good.
Whole egg mayonnaise? Yes.
Melanie Avalon
It's funny, I always had it on all my sandwiches, kind of like I liked it, but it kind of just like, it also kind of like grossed me out. But I liked it.
We made it through the first section. They're using the right terminology, assorted appetizers. Okay, let me look here. Oh, I know what I want. What? Steak and anchovy tartar.
Do you like anchovies?
Barry Conrad
I love anchovies. Have you ever had anchovies on?
Melanie Avalon
I actually don't know if I've had anchovies.
Barry Conrad
If you try them on sourdough, okay, just go with me here. So you get a fresh loaf of sourdough, slice it up, put them under the broiler in the oven just so they're not nice and crispy. Put some like cream cheese on there with some anchovies. So good, so delicious, so refreshing. Highly recommend it.
Melanie Avalon
I need to go to Whole Foods and buy some anchovies because I don't think I've ever tried them. So I don't know that I... Are they really really salty though?
Can I get like a low salt version? I just feel like it's gonna be really salty.
Barry Conrad
I'm sure that they would be maybe salty or to you because you don't add salt to your food, but they're not overly salty. Like regular seafood salty, if that makes sense, if you know what I mean.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they're just so they're so often like in cans. So it's like, you know, I bet there's like, I'm gonna go to Whole Foods again, and I'm going to look at all the anchovies and I'm gonna get some.
Barry Conrad
I'm sure there's some in jars, there are canned ones, but there's bespoke or gourmet jarred ones as well.
Melanie Avalon
Are you ready? Do they taste fishy?
Barry Conrad
Oh, come on. Okay, listeners, if you hear this, can you please weigh in on this comment? Can seafood taste fishy? No, that's the answer.
Melanie Avalon
I'm going to make this a poll in the Facebook group, because I try to post one thing a day, and this will be a great poll. So listeners, go join.
I mean, the poll is going to be way in the past by the time you listen to this, but join IF Biohackers and find this poll and add your vote, which is, I don't know how to phrase it though. Wait, what am I asking? I'm asking, what am I asking? I'm asking, is fishy a appropriate adjective to describe fish?
Barry Conrad
No, it's not.
Melanie Avalon
Yes it is because and do and is it good or bad like i'm i'll have chat help me come up with this poll but we're gonna settle this once and for all.
Barry Conrad
I can't wait to see what people say because it's ridiculous if they say that it can be fishy because it's from the ocean.
Melanie Avalon
No, but like, but sometimes it's fishy and sometimes it's not. And when it is, it's not good.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, tell me what taste fishy so that
Melanie Avalon
This is why I can't do oysters because they taste fishy. They literally taste like fish. Fishy, fishy.
Barry Conrad
That can be changed. I definitely think you can finally find voices that you enjoy. I'm confident that will happen one day. I really am.
Melanie Avalon
We are on our first meal together i will we have to go somewhere that has oysters and i will try them and you will watch me not like them and i will be validated okay super gonna get some soup.
Barry Conrad
Actually, I'll do the blue crab gumbo. That looks pretty good. And I reckon in a place like this, it's going to really be great.
Melanie Avalon
being good. There's another soup on there. I have no idea what that word is. What is that word? What is that word? Caviar? What is that word? Vichy? Sois?
Barry Conrad
Vichy Swaz.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, fishy sois. Creamy, savory soup made from pureed leeks, potatoes, onions, and cream. That sounds good. Minus the caviar.
Hmm. Actually, and the caviar. That sounds yummy. I'm not getting it, but sounds good. Salad. Would you like a salad?
Barry Conrad
I can go with that a solid in this instance.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you don't ever really order a salad, do you?
Barry Conrad
Well, I actually, okay, when I was in LA recently, I actually ordered this amazing shrimp salad. It was really good with giant shrimp in it.
That was really good, like a Cobb salad. Prawns or shrimp? It said shrimp. So unless they were giving me fake news on that menu, they said shrimp. They were pretty massive too, really big.
Melanie Avalon
Was the head on them?
Barry Conrad
No, they were peeled and no head, sans head, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Speaking of, now we are entering the entrees, which they don't say entree anywhere, but we have options between
Barry Conrad
mains.
Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh. Options between seafood, chops and birds, prime-aged steaks, trolley service. Okay. Oh my goodness. So many options. Okay. Let me take this in. Let me have a look-see.
Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting, but I'll wait for you, ladies first.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, now we have to, we don't influence each other with our choices.
Barry Conrad
I don't think so, but we do like a lot of the same things, actually.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I have to look up some of these. What is a larded squab? I've never heard of that in my entire life.
Is it a bird? It's got to be a bird. Whoa. Oh my goodness. Guess what? What? I just Googled it and for whatever reason, it freaked out the AI.
Speaker 3
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm going to send you a screenshot. Look at this.
And for listeners, type in larder. Oh, type in, well, I spelled it wrong. Oh, larder. Wait, does larder mean to say something over and over and over? Wait, did you see the
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I did see that. That's really interesting and just kept on kind of malfunctioned.
Melanie Avalon
The AI like freaked out. I tried to type in alerted squab. And it told me it said squab is a young tender and and and and and and and and and and and and
Barry Conrad
It sounds like a almost like, just get out of my way, you ladded squab. It sounds like, it sounds like a, I don't know, like a, you know, something you call someone.
Melanie Avalon
I'm sending you the full thing. It's a baby pigeon known for its tender, dark, and flavorful meat, often compared to duck. Oh, wow. Oh, and it's whole grilled? So is it like the entire pigeon? That's intriguing.
And they have venice and Cumberland. Do you know what is Cumberland? Oh, it's a sauce.
Speaker 3
Okay, that looks great.
Melanie Avalon
So I'm going to go with, oh, they have a whole grilled young chicken as well. So many options.
I'm going to go with, I know what I'm getting for dessert from this menu. For my actual entree, though, I think I might get the larded squab because I've never seen that before in my entire life. And I like that it's whole. It's whole grilled with preserved orange. So I'll get like everything on the side, but I'm just very intrigued. So I think I'll get that. And then what are you getting?
Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the triple lamb chops, curried flavors, minced jelly, and then I'm also going to get lobster a la Newberg from the seafood because I love lobster so much and I love lamb so much. And we don't have a lot of lamb here in, I haven't tried lamb here in the US yet, so yet to find, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
And then I think I'm also going to get, with the larded squab, I think I might also get a filet mignon as well, which you can get peppered, Florentine, or Peconic. I don't know what that means. Oh, it's a place in New York. That's confusing.
I'm not sure what that means. Yeah, so I'm going to get a filet mignon as well, cooked as rare as they will bring it please, although I am going to inquire with our captain about the additional cuts of American beef that they have. But yeah, so I'm going to go with the steak route and the larded squab. Or maybe the venison. Depends. I might get venison. It's actually, I go backtrack. I'm going to get venison, Cumberland, but I'm going to ask for the sauce on the side, and then I'm going to get the larded squab. Okay, final answer.
Barry Conrad
Yep. And I forgot to add potatoes to mine. I'm going to add some dilled potatoes, which is-
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, you're adding potatoes?
Barry Conrad
I love potatoes so much.
Melanie Avalon
You don't normally add things.
Barry Conrad
Well, you know what, I was reminded of this because I made steak the other night from ButcherBox again. Surprise, surprise.
But I always used to make these in Australia. Baby potatoes, sauteed, and like, it's not something that you would have necessary, because it's kind of fried in butter, and it's just really crispy and delicious. I kind of got the recipe from my mom, and South Africa is really, really good with steak. So that's making me think of that.
Melanie Avalon
This also made me realize, because the description, I realize now those aren't options. So the Flamin' Yawn was peppered slash and Florentine slash Peconic.
So it was just, I thought it was like you choose, but, so the potatoes are cottage fries, hash brown, O'Brien whipped, dilled. And then dessert.
Barry Conrad
There's a dessert menu. So I'm gonna go to dessert. Here we go. Ah, yeah, for sure
Melanie Avalon
Can I guess what you're going to get? Sure. Go ahead.
Well, it's interesting that they put under ice cream, they put buttered rum, baked Alaska, because that's like an actual situation, not just like ice cream. Are you going to get that, the baked Alaska?
Barry Conrad
I do love Baked Alaska, which I had a, I can't say the other restaurant because it's conflict of restaurants, but I had another amazing restaurant in New York. And I'm also going to get the crawler, which is like a kind of like this fried donut situation.
I've never had it before, but I just looked it up. It looks great.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, if I know what it was, I might have guessed that. Something different.
And then I'm going to get for dessert the entree that I picked, which is the, I would like the Dover sole because it's like a very light white fish. And I feel like white fish is like my favorite form of dessert.
Barry Conrad
It is pretty good, not gonna lie. Whitefish is very, very good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so grilled Riviera horse rat. Oh, I love horseradish horseradish mignon and Neptune's crown. Okay.
Barry Conrad
Any drinks? It's quite an extensive menu. There's lots here.
Melanie Avalon
I will let you look at the drinks, I'm going to look at the full wine list.
Barry Conrad
Well, I do love a good margaritas. I know what I like.
I'm going to get a margarita. Patroon Reposada, Caracao Lime, and also a, the grill old-fashioned because I like to have something from the place that I'm at.
Melanie Avalon
Are these? Okay, on the y-list, is it the prices, the like, the column at the end?
Barry Conrad
Yes, the column at the end, I believe, of the prices.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. They have, yes. Okay. So the price is on these wines. They have like an almost $8,000 bottle. And so this makes me like hankerback or hankerback or remember, reminisce on Sandra's email because like, this is a situation where like some of these wines are so expensive and, and that doesn't necessarily mean that they're like organic or you know, like it's kind of crazy.
It makes you wonder like what makes a wine become like this. I should probably know this more based on my wine education, but in any case it looks like they have a very extensive wine list. So I would get one of their French, Oh, they have orange wines too. I might get an orange wine. I might get like a French Rose or French red, but there's a lot of options. So I feel confident that I can find something on this list for sure.
Barry Conrad
So many options.
Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Are you gonna go?
Barry Conrad
have to go now. Now that I've gone to one here, I've definitely wet my appetite to just keep trying these out.
Melanie Avalon
Do you ever question so something I do like my habit because I tend to go to like the drink situation more than the dinner I go to I love going to like bars and steakhouses. Do you do that?
Barry Conrad
You know what? Not like intentionally I have done it and they are pretty good because you get to feel the vibe out without actually eating there. But yeah, maybe I should give that a go. you
Melanie Avalon
I do it, that's like one of my go tos because let me sell you on it. You get to see the, like you said, see the restaurant, feel out the vibe and the state, especially like steakhouses and like fine dining restaurants, they will have really good wines.
So you get to like go to a bar, but actually have like a really decent wine selection. So I love, I love restaurant bars, like steakhouse bars or like fine dining bars.
Barry Conrad
Okay. You sold me. I'm going to give it a go.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, start doing it. This is like, this is like my habit. Like this is like what I do.
Barry Conrad
And Harry, what's your process of finding it? You just sort of look for like Google reviews, would you look on Instagram or word of mouth or all of the above?
Melanie Avalon
I look for the, like, do they have, like, Michelin stars or, like, you know, awards and then the wine lists and the vibe. So the wine, the awards, the vibe, and then I'm good.
Speaker 3
Yeah, awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it really expands your opportunity for bar options. Because a lot of people look for just bars, but there's a whole world of restaurants with bars. And it's a whole other world that you can go to.
Barry Conrad
That's actually so true. You're actually right. Yeah, you're right. You forget about that. You think, yeah, you're right, you're right.
Melanie Avalon
I actually like, that's almost more my preference. Like I almost look for that first and then other bars.
And if you are eating, you can normally order food at the bar too. So it's like, it's a way to like, especially if it's a place where like it's hard to get reservations, you can just go to the bar and like try the food, see the vibe and then come back later if you want.
Barry Conrad
Good hack actually that's a good point.
Melanie Avalon
I know, I should talk about this more.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, now I'm thinking about that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Well, good find. So fun. Listeners, thank you so much for being here with us.
If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, please, please do. You can email us at questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 473. Those will have links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And then you can follow us on Instagram. We are, I have podcast, I have Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. Yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go.
Barry Conrad
You're all awesome. Thank you so much once again for listening and spending time with us and we'll talk to you next week.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, and happy travels this weekend, Barry.
Barry Conrad
Thanks so much, Mel, and have an awesome week.
Melanie Avalon
I'll talk to you next week. Bye.
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intramusian Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recon host by Steve Saunders. See you next week.