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Welcome to Episode 482 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 482 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 482 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone listening. I'm doing great. Thanks for asking, Melanie.

Before I say anything, I have to ask you about your recent adventures. There's so many. I feel like there's the enhanced games. There's Dave Espry's conference. Tell me everything. I want to hear all about it.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and I was thinking about this. I think I'll tell you about the enhanced games this episode and then Dave's conference next episode. How's that?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
But, yeah, I felt like I was channeling my inner Barry Conrad. Like traveling non-stop, just like all the events and things back to back. It was wild. I wish you could have gone to the enhanced games. I think you would have found it really fascinating.

I know we've already talked about this, but listeners, they did not tell us. Oh, and maybe I should say what the enhanced games are. So basically the enhanced games, it was the first year that they've done it, and it was a sporting event where they wanted to see the true potential of the human being when quote, enhanced. I'm not allowed to use other words. So they use medically supervised enhancements, if that makes sense, FDA approved, of course. And they were trying to break some world records and most of the athletes were Olympians and former world record holders. And most of them were also quote, like past their prime. Like they had it, most of them hadn't competed in like five or six years, maybe even like 10 years, which makes sense because I feel like athletes right now wouldn't want to do an event like that because it might jeopardize their career by doing it. But it was so interesting.

I actually sat by one of their financial advisors. So I was kind of getting like an interior glimpse of everything, but they did not, okay. So they broke a lot of personal records. They didn't break a world record until the very last event, which was very surreal and exciting and important for them.

Because if they hadn't broken any world records, I think they would have been really upset. But they didn't tell us until, and you know this, but they didn't tell us until the day before that it was outside. So it was a Vegas heat. I was out there for hours and hours and hours. Would you like that situation? I feel like you would have been fine, right? Or do you like, how do you feel? It was like 90, it was like mid high 90s.

Barry Conrad
listeners, to give you context, I did later receive a photo of Mel in a very attractive hat with her sunnies on and she was like, it's so hot. It's like, and I know, Melanie does not like heat. She likes the cold, she likes cryotherapy. So I was feeling your pain and it depends how unbearable was the heat though. Was it was it humid or was it.

Melanie Avalon
It was not humid, it was dry heat, so it was Vegas heat, which is better than humid. But it was, yeah, like high 90s.

And then the sun was like glaring off of, there was a lot of reflective surfaces. So it was, ah man. Yeah, when I found out, but I did, I did, you inspired me, Berry. I am all about Instacart now. I am all about it. I used it like 24 seven. And so the second I found out that it was outside, I ordered that hat. I ordered sunscreen, cause I hadn't brought sunscreen. I ordered cooling packs, which I did not, I was not aware that these cooling packs, these instant ones, they get so cold. I have now bought like 50 of them because I'm gonna like just use them, like ongoing. Like I could be using it right now.

Barry Conrad
I'm so glad that you said that. Keep, continue, continue.

Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to think what the fourth thing was. I ordered four things. Wait, sunscreen, cooling backs, a hat, something else. What else would I have ordered to...

Barry Conrad
Water, snacks, trinkets, a beverage of sorts.

Melanie Avalon
I ordered like an electronic wind blowing thing that you put around your neck. It didn't work at all. I wore it for like a second and I was like, this is no, we're not doing this.

Barry Conrad
I like to see a photo of that, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I already returned it. It kind of looked like headphones, like big headphones, and you'd like put it around your neck. There is one that works that I've had in the past that actually gets cold, but this was just blowing air. Regardless, not to talk about the heat the whole time.

The actual event was very cool. I've actually never, since I haven't been to a sporting event, I don't think, like a competition sporting event since the 1996 Olympics.

Barry Conrad
Wow, that's wow, really like it.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I've been to, like, football, but, like, weight lift, you know, like, competition style. So, yeah, it was, it was really cool, and it, and they're probably, yeah, they're coming back next year and they're gonna up the prize.

They also gave away big monetary prizes, so, and then the killers played at the end.

Barry Conrad
I saw that on your story and you love the killers. So that would have been was that whether how good you expected them to be.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, they only did four songs, but I just love Brandon Flowers so much. So, yes, he's amazing.

It was amazing. And what was really nice was the entire thing was invite only. So everybody there, it wasn't that relatively speaking for how big of an event it was, it wasn't that crowded. It was very nice. And they took care of us very well.

Barry Conrad
That sounds awesome. What was your, okay, A, what is the enhanced games? Were the enhanced games, what you expected them to be like? And B, what was the most surprising thing about watching it?

Other than the heat. Other than the heat.

Melanie Avalon
Good questions. So, ironically enough, minus it being outside, so if it was like this but indoors, it was almost exactly what I thought it was going to be. Really? Actually, you know what was different? I thought it was going to be more crowded. I was thinking it was going to be like an arena stadium situation and it wasn't that crowded. It was crowded, but it wasn't that crowded. I think it was like maybe a couple thousand people.

You said most surprising? Yeah. Probably, I don't know if this is the most, but this is what immediately came to mind. The first swim one that I watched, I was trying to record it and they were so fast. I was shocked. I was blown away when they jumped in. I was like, they're like halfway down the pool. Yeah, that was really cool to watch. And then watching the weightlifting, insane. Insane. I want to know, I was talking with the guy next to me and he was saying he has a friend who does it and he was like, if you knew, you can't even envision how heavy those things are that they're lifting. They have one of the guys from Game of Thrones there, Thor something, the mountain, I think.

Barry Conrad
Like do competing or like watching? Competing. Competing. Wow.

Melanie Avalon
I think he was actually the world's strongest man most recently, maybe. So he was there. Yeah, there was for one of the run events, there was like four full starts. That was interesting.

Barry Conrad
Is that just because everyone's so geed up, so ready to go that they're just like, yeah, let's go.

Melanie Avalon
I guess so. But it's just crazy because obviously it's faster than we can see. We can't see the false start, but it's all monitored with the way it's set up electronically. So that was kind of funny to see that happen over and over again.

And there were actually a few of the athletes were not, quote, enhanced, but the majority were. And they also... Oh, for the swimmers, I know they wore some special type of swimsuit that isn't allowed in traditional sport competitions.

Barry Conrad
I wonder why that, that is a thing though. Like if it's, if it's a tire, how is that enhancing your, you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Like, why is that not allowed? I don't know.

Barry Conrad
I did see the video. I don't know if it was the same one, but I did see a couple of videos of swimmers diving into the pool. And one of them looked so fast, looked like it was sped up. It was so fast.

Is that what you were talking about?

Melanie Avalon
Probably. Yeah. It like that dive in moment. I was like, Oh, they're gone. I was like, Oh, cause I was like, I'll just like record them the whole way. And then, yeah, I was like, they are so fast. So yeah, it was cool.

And then there was like an after party after. How was the after party? It was, it was good. I was, I was dead. Oh, also because the night before, and I don't know, I don't remember if I told you this already, but the night before I had to go to a had to, I had the honor of going, well, I did have to go, but, um, there was like a, a pre party thing. And I was like so late with the plane. And then like, everything was taking way too long. So I was like running, carrying like my 12 case of water. And then I even, I think I told you this, I went, did I tell you, I went to the party with no makeup. I don't know if you, I don't think that's how late I was. And that's how dire the situation was. I have never gone to a social event with no makeup. So I just like, and my hair wasn't curled. I just, I put on glasses and I went, I like went into it. I like quickly put on a cocktail dress, straightened my hair because there's no time to curl it, no makeup, put on my dark glasses. And I was like, okay, this is what we're doing right now. Which is like a big deal for me. My point is, um, cause you were saying, oh, the, the after party, the next night I was so, I was, I was so dead. It was fun, but I was, I was dead.

Barry Conrad
What do enhanced people, what are they like in a party scenario? Are they dancing? Are they kind of just tired from, you know, competing? What's the deal? Did you get to meet any of them?

Melanie Avalon
I've met quite a few of them via Instagram, but well, this is what's interesting. I really thought, and I might have said this already too as well, I really thought I was going to know a lot of people. I thought it was going to be a ton of biohacking people, and I didn't know anybody. After I left, I found out I knew like five people, but everybody kind of looked similar. They were all like sporting-ish people. I don't know how to describe it, but it was interesting.

Barry Conrad
Would you want to go to another, another one of those types of events?

Melanie Avalon
I'm really, really, really glad. Two things, I'm really glad they didn't tell me that it was outside before because I wouldn't have gone. Serious, I would not have gone. No, I wouldn't have gone. So I'm glad they didn't because I'm happy that I went.

And even if it's outdoors next year, I think I could do it again.

Barry Conrad
If it was outdoors next year, what would you do as a preparation situation?

Melanie Avalon
Like what would I do differently? Yeah, I would bring more of those cold pack things.

Barry Conrad
Well, what do you mean? Like, I'm trying to picture what you mean. Are they like?

Melanie Avalon
They're like $2.99 at Target and you shake them, you pop a thing in the center and then you shake it and they get so cold.

They get like ice and they stay that cold for like 15 minutes, even in the heat. And you really, to like remove heat from your body, there's like a few points on your body where if you keep them cold, like you will feel cooler. So like, you know, it's like around like your collarbone and your wrist, your inner wrist. So like, if you can like keep those cold, you can really cool yourself off more.

Barry Conrad
some more callbacks and hats.

Melanie Avalon
And I'll probably bring the same hat, probably wear the same outfit, honestly.

Barry Conrad
It looks great. I mean, you look like you were really like, I could not tell by looking at that photo that that was like pretty much a last minute thing. I thought it was planned. It looks planned.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Well, just it was just the hat that was the additional add on but yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Barry Conrad
And also go Instacart. CML, C, it's how good.

Melanie Avalon
And then I ended up using it like the entire trip for like, especially for that water, because that water is heavy. I always like going on, it's funny, people will go on trips and have to recover from it because of like diet lifestyle.

I feel like whenever I go on a trip, it's like a workout for me and I like gets me in shape.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm, for sure.

Barry Conrad
Because you're carrying so much stuff.

Melanie Avalon
So I carry stuff around, I walk a lot, and then I don't change my diet. I actually eat probably less because it's like more complicated to get access. Oh yeah, wait, that's the last thing I was gonna say because this is going really long.

But did I tell you about my $300 credit? Tell me. Okay, so they gave me a $300 credit at the hotel, which was, it was at the Resorts World Las Vegas. And we stayed at the Hotel Conrad and, oh, Hotel Conrad, oh my goodness, you should go. Um, but I had not used the credit. So the day that I was leaving on my flight, I went to one of the fancy restaurants and just had them give me like $300 worth of steak and chicken. And then I took it with me.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that actually sounds like heaven. That sounds amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah and it's funny they were like because it was like brunch time and they're like well we don't have steak right now and I was like but on the menu they had a salad where you could add a six ounce filet mignon I was like well can you just give me like six salads with six filet mignons and don't give me the salad they're like yeah we can do that I was like okay

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. So what do you, so what do you mean take it with you? So you, you ordered it as you were checking out and then you took it in like a go to go situation.

Melanie Avalon
I have one of those it's a game changer one of those like freezer lunchbox thing like lunch box it's not a lunchbox it's like a yeah it is it's like a freezer lunchbox have you seen these?

Barry Conrad
It's not the silver ones, right?

Melanie Avalon
They probably are, there's probably different brands and different types. I got on Amazon, but basically you freeze it and then you can like keep stuff cold.

So I just, it was already frozen from the night before. So I just filled it up with steak.

Barry Conrad
That's so good. And then what, you took it back to, you took it back home with you?

Melanie Avalon
That took Austin.

Barry Conrad
Took it to Austin. Wow, so you were sorted. You were sorted like you had so much steak and chicken.

Melanie Avalon
I ate it like throughout the rest of the days, which this is, I'll stop talking now.

Barry Conrad
And also, was it good steak and chicken? Was it good stuff?

Melanie Avalon
It was, yes, it was really good. It was good.

Barry Conrad
Yum. That's also so much Steak and Chicken. I love that.

Melanie Avalon
It was, it was really good. Yeah. And so one last thing for listeners. So in addition to the games, enhanced also has a, they have a product line and they have a telehealth thing as well.

And I'm, I'm learning all about it right now, but I'm really happy because they, they sent me the products and wanted me to post about it. And I was just like, these better be products that I agree with. And it's like good stuff. Like one, like they have like a supplement called longer and it's like all the things I talk about all the time. So it's like N M N and Spermidine and N A C and like all of these different compounds. So listeners, if you want to check out any of their stuff, go to Melanie Avalon.com slash enhanced. And I don't know if I'm going to have a coupon code. I probably will. So use the code Melanie Avalon and that should hopefully give you a discount. So yeah. Oh my goodness. This is so long. I've got to stop talking about it.

Barry Conrad
No, but seriously, how fun. It sounds like such a great experience and like, sounds like you had the best time and you had the best time eating.

You had the best time, you know, going to your first enhanced game is awesome. Come with to hear more later.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Thank you for supporting. Maybe next year we can both go.

Barry Conrad
That'd be a vibe. That'd be so much fun. And also you'll have someone else to sit outside with to bear the...

Melanie Avalon
I know, although it can't be our first time that we hang out in person because we can't have the first time we hang out be when I'm miserable.

Barry Conrad
Although I still can't picture that. I can't picture you being all miserable. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, anything new with you before we jump into listener questions?

Barry Conrad
No, let's jump in. I really enjoyed listening to what you had to say. That was a highlight.

Melanie Avalon
But I do, I'm genuinely authentically because I know when we were talking about before I went, it was like, you know, what is it going to be? And like, how do we feel about this?

I just feel like it's really cool. Like I'm really I think it's really cool what they're doing. I find it interesting that mainstream media is like attacking them so bad right now.

Barry Conrad
other really

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I think it's really cool

Barry Conrad
Awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, to start things off, do you have a study for us to discuss?

Barry Conrad
I have a study for us to discuss and today I'm bringing one called Dynamical Alterations of Brain Function and Gut Microbiome in Weight Loss. And I'm going to send you a cheeky link so you can check it out.

And this was by Jing Zhou and colleagues published originally in Frontiers in Cellular and Infection Microbiology in 2023 and was conducted in China through researchers at Henan Provincial People's Hospital and Jing Zhou University People's Hospital. So it's a human IF study, intermittent fasting study, but instead of just looking at it from sort of like a purely weight loss perspective, the researchers really wanted to see what was happening inside both the brain and the gut while the people were losing weight. And the study, it involved 25 adults with obesity who successfully completed the intervention and lost weight. So their BMI ranged from 28 to 45 years old and their average starting weight was about 97.5 kgs or as you Americans like to say, American listeners 215 pounds, but the end of the study, their average weight had dropped to about 89.9 kgs, so about 90 kgs, which is a loss of roughly 7.6 kgs or nearly 17 pounds. So there weren't tiny changes. There were meaningful results of a relatively short amount of time. So the participants went through a 66 day intermittent energy restriction protocol. So meaning for the first four days, they ate normally while the researchers worked out what the usual calorie intake was. And then came a 32 day phase where every other day calories were reduced. So for about a week at a time, the participants consumed about two thirds of their normal cows, then one half, then one third, et cetera. And then finally, just one quarter of what they'd normally have on a day. And on the days in between, they just ate normally. After that, there was another 30 day phase where they kept the protocol at home. So on the reduced calorie days, the men took in about 600 calories and the women took in about 500 calories, alternating those days with normal eating days. So I guess for listeners just tuning in now who are new to intermittent fasting, this is close to what we call like an alternate day fasting protocol, closer to that rather than a typical 16 eight, which could mean 16 hours fasting, eight hours eating. So what makes the study super interesting though Mel is that the researchers weren't just tracking the body weight and a lot of people just associate intermittent fasting with weight loss. They actually performed functional MRI scans of the brain and really looked at stool samples from the participants as well. They analyzed those. And if you've heard the term MRI before, listeners out there, but you're not sure what that means, it's basically a way of like researchers looking at the activity inside different parts of the brain. So they can sort of see like which areas are becoming more active, which areas are becoming less active. And the first major thing, the first major finding rather was that the activity decreased in several brain regions involving appetite.

Barry Conrad
learning, food reward, memory, and self-control. So in plain terms, parts of the brain involved in responding to food became less active as participants progressed through the study. And I think it's really great because one of the things we hear all the time from listeners is that after fasting consistently for so long, food can seem to take up less mental space because of just the benefits of fasting and just taking the thinking out of food. You get in touch with the satiety signals that often describe fewer cravings, less food noise. I know I have.

And this study, it can't prove that's what's happening, but it does suggest there may be more biological changes occurring in some of the brain regions involved in eating behavior. So the researchers also looked at the gut microbiome. And for anyone not familiar with what that means, your gut microbiome is like a collection of a whole bunch of bacteria, trillions of bacteria and other microorganisms living inside your digestive system. And scientists now know these microbes play roles in everything, like from digestion to metabolism, even communication with the brain. So the researchers found changes in several of these bacterial species, including reductions in E. coli and increases in bacteria that have previously been linked to metabolic health. But here's the part that really stood out to me most of all. When they compare the gut findings with the brain findings, they really found correlations between changes in specific gut bacteria and changes in activity in brain regions. So again, it doesn't prove the gut bacteria caused those changes. It does mean, though, that the two appeared to change together. So that's what the gut-brain connection becomes so interesting. And for years, we've, as I said before, we really, by and large, thought weight loss is about calories and whatnot, it's all about a calories in, calories out issue. This study really does suggest there's so much more going on. And as people lose weight through, as the people lost weight through the intermittent energy restriction, changes occurred not just in the body weight, but in the communication between the gut and the brain itself. So that's pretty awesome. It was just really cool to read that. And IF intermittent fasting doesn't just influence how much we eat or whatnot. It also plays a part in some of the biological systems involved in hunger cravings and our behavior and our eating behavior. I think this is a really awesome glimpse and fascinating glimpse into how, just how interconnected our brain, the gut and weight loss really are. Mel, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. So okay, quick question.

You said the areas of the brain that were affected included the appetite. Did you say that there was a decrease in all of the areas you mentioned, or those were the ones that were affected? So like the reward part, the self-control, hunger, like were they all down-regulated? Even the even the self-control and the do what I'm talking about?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So the activity, the decreased activities were in appetite, food reward, learning, memory and self-control. So all of those.

Melanie Avalon
Learning and memory were down. Did they comment on that?

Barry Conrad
the activity decreased in those brain regions. So I don't know if it's decreased in learning. I don't know what that necessarily means.

Activity-wise, like less learning or just activity in general. So basically, parts of the brain involved in those, in responding to food became less active, basically, in the appetite, food reward, learning, memory, and self-control. They didn't really comment beyond that, which is really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
So they say our results showed that it longitudinally reduced the activity of, and then they characterize it as obese-related brain regions, including the cognitive control circuit, the emotion and learning circuit, and the cingulate cortex and the sensory circuit. So I guess whatever was affected is related to obesity in the brain.

Or not obesity in the brain, but obese-related regions in the brain. That's really interesting. Yeah, but just to like step back, I cannot agree more. I feel like it's becoming just so clear every day with more and more research just how much like the gut microbiome affects everything. And like the inter, like the bi-directional relationship, like you were saying, between the brain and the gut microbiome. And now we know that just like weight loss and dieting, I would wonder if it's like the weight loss causing that, or is it the fasting, like what is it exactly? But there's just so many factors involved. That's so fascinating. It doesn't surprise me, but it's really, really fascinating.

Barry Conrad
Again, just another study to support the whole notion that intermittent fasting is just so much more than just about weight loss. There's so much going on in our bodies than just like losing weight, calories in, calories out.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. Which to that point, friends, check out last week's episode, which is a special episode with Dr. Jason Fung, who I know was like an OG in the fasting world and probably the person, I mean, quite possibly the person we've talked about historically in the entire history of this show, maybe the most because he's just like such a figure in the fasting world. I bring it up because his most recent book is called The Hunger Code, and it's all about this.

It's not just calories in, calories out. It's so many other things. Awesome. Awesome. Fine. Thanks. Nicely done. Okay. Shall we jump into some listener questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump right in. So to start off, we have an email from Kristi, and she says, hey, first of all, I love your podcasts and books. They're both informative and entertaining, like sitting down and chatting with friends. So thank you.

I'm about a month into my IF journey. I have only lost a few pounds, but my clothes fit better. My skin rashes are going away. And most importantly, for the first time since puberty, I no longer feel out of control or guilty about my eating. Now for my question. It is my understanding that one of the reasons fasting works is because it is a quote unquote good stress on the body, much like exercise. However, if the body is under a lot of other stress, for example, poor sleep, health issues, relationship stress, et cetera, sometimes even good stress like exercise may not be good for one's health because it can overtax the adrenals. I've even heard in some circles, like the bulletproof diet, that one should not do high intensity exercise after not getting enough sleep because it can be too much for the body. Would this be the case with fasting too? I find on days that I have had little sleep, I do feel hungrier. Before IF, I would turn to sugar for a quick energy boost, so it could just be a habit. I usually end up opening my window earlier on those days, but I do try to get in at least 16 hours as opposed to 19 to 23 hours. What are your thoughts? Thanks so much, Christy. Mel, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, Christy. So really, really wonderful question and very intuitive question. And I think this is where it's very individual. So you're completely accurate in what you're saying about the stress bucket.

And we basically have, you know, a stress bucket every day that gets filled with all these different things that you mentioned, you know, like sleep and exercise and diet and lifestyle and fasting and hormones and all the things. And so that can mean that if somebody is really, has really built up these chronic stressors in life, that fasting too much, it could be too much of a stressor for them. And I think, I feel like I'm a little bit of a, well, I would be curious about this. For me, I'm so like comfortable and in a way de-stressed by my fasting protocol, that if I were to go off my fasting protocol, when I'm really stressed, I think that would just make me more stressed. I mean, I know it would, like it would have the opposite effect. I think I'm pretty, I think I'm a little bit unique that way, though. And because I'm so accustomed, I've done this for so long, and it's my pattern, that not doing it, like I said, I think would stress me out more mentally, physiologically, like all the things for a lot of people, though, especially people who have, you know, tried different hours of fasting and who may be comfortable with shorter fasting windows, then, you know, it's very likely that, you know, if you're sleep deprived, if you're, have a lot of mental and emotional stress that a longer fast on top of that might just be, you know, too much. So I think I would just encourage people to be as intuitive as possible with fasting. And you know, you like you know, with fasting, you should I feel like most people can, can know how they feel about fasting and can know if it feels more or less stressful to them. And it's interesting too, because a lot of these factors affect similar pathways as fasting. So for example, like if you're sleep deprived, we know that that raises cortisol and that raises and that raises ghrelin, which is the hunger hormone, and it lowers leptin, which is the satiety hormone. So that's another example where, like for me, because it would do that, it's actually helpful for me to do fasting because I find that fasting has a beneficial effect for me on my hormone, like hunger related hormone levels. So I find it beneficial. However, some people might find that fasting while sleep deprived just further raises cortisol and just makes them hungrier. So again, you just have to know what works best for you. Barry, do you, and then one last thing about the sugar cravings before IF for the quick energy boost that completely makes sense because sugar is basically the fastest energy boost that we can give ourselves. It's just like immediate energy accessible to our bodies. I love that you're aware that maybe that's just a habit that's going on there. However, it does make sense that you would have these cravings if you're overstressed because your body is looking for that fast energy.

Melanie Avalon
So it could be habit, but it also could be just a real signal. That said, because you have the cravings for sugar, it doesn't mean you have to eat the sugar. You can still meet that energy in other ways.

Buy more, less inflammatory food choices. Oh, which that's one last thing I'll say. Again, this is for me, but for a lot of people, fasting can be very anti-inflammatory. And so that's another reason that I find it's helpful for me even when I'm stressed. But again, it's very individual. So Barry, yes, what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Mel, you answered it so awesomely. You know, Christy, I'm a firm believer that, you know, fasting should work with your life, not against it. And flexibility is really important. That's something that I've learned myself over the years.

So for example, if you have had a really terrible night's sleep and you're under a lot of stress at work or in life and family, whatnot, I don't think it's necessarily the day to white knuckle your way through the longest possible fast, just because, you know, it's really important to listen to your body. And it sounds like you are paying attention to your body's feedback, which is great. Sleep is massive, as Mel said as well. Hunger hormones can shift, cravings will and most likely will increase because your guards are down and you're not really tapped in as much. And your body will, you know, it's going to start looking for that quick energy. You know, those Doritos, the chocolate bars, the candy, it's happened to me in the past. So you just sleep is so important. And if your normal rhythm is 19 to 23 hours, but on a rough day, you're doing 16 and then you're nourishing yourself. Well, that's still a pretty successful fasting day, Christy. So don't be too hard on yourself. I think sometimes people can get focused on maximizing that fasting stress, as you said, that they forget. Recovery really does matter so much too, as we like to, we love to say it's the fast and the feast. They're both so important. It's not just the fasting, but you know, Christy, congrats on smashing your non-scale victories. Like, seriously, you got your better fitting clothes, your healthier skin, and especially, you know, feeling free from guilt around food. That's great. Just don't feel like you have to hold on to that fast just with the clocks here. So you have permission to do what feels right for you and your body.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, 100%. And also one last comment. Well, I'm glad you pointed out and honored her non-scale victories because yes, those are all amazing. So congratulations, Kristie.

And then also, this is interesting because she was saying about hearing in some circles about not doing high-intensity exercise after not getting enough sleep. The irony of that is I've also read the exact opposite. I think it was when interviewing Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, maybe. I know it's come up in one or two podcasts I've done where doing exercise, and I would have to check what type if it was high-intensity. I thought it was high-intensity after sleep deprivation could actually counteract the negative metabolic effects on muscle from the sleep deprivation.

So it's interesting. Yeah, I've heard the exact opposite. Shall we answer another listener question? Let's do it. So we have a question from Leslie, and she says, when is the best time to work out at the tail end of the fast?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much for your question, Leslie, and very fitting. We just talked about exercising that last question there. And it's one of those questions that's, it sounds, it can sound simple on the surface, but it's actually, there's a lot of layers there. My short answer to that is, at the tail end of the fuss, maybe, maybe it is better. I mean, I know that's not the ultimate satisfying answer, because we all love the idea that there's one magic pill or find that magic window.

Everything suddenly becomes easier. But what I've learned personally through fasting and through co-hosting the show as well, and my own training is that the best workout time is the one that matches both your goals and your physiology seriously. And a lot of people love training at the end of a fast. I have trained at the end of a fast and it feels great. And there's a reason for that because your instant levels are lower, your body is relying more heavily on that stored energy. And many people, a lot of people like really talk about feeling that mental sharpness and that focus. I've definitely experienced that. And there's that sense of clarity that comes with that as well, like deep in the fast when you're training, because you're not digesting food, you're not feeling heavy, you're feeling light. And it's almost like a euphoric feeling for certain types of exercise. It can feel amazing. There have also been plenty of times where I've trained towards the end of my fasting window and felt like that. Although for me personally, I like to train in the morning, which is kind of maybe halfway through my fast. But I think where people can sometimes oversimplify it is just because you're fasting, you're training fasted and it works well for some workouts, it doesn't mean it's going to automatically be the best choice for every workout. So Melanie talked about in the last question about the types of training that could benefit from being sleep deprived or whatnot. So in a related way, just because you're fast, you're training fasted, that might not support every type of exercise. So for example, if you're listening to the show, you know, I've trained for half marathon recently. And what I noticed was that different workouts created different demands. So if I'm doing an easier run, a recovery run, something steady, training faster can feel awesome. I feel light on my feet focused, really my energy feels stable and I feel clear and strong. But if I'm doing a big hard session, speed work intervals or like a super demanding run or super demanding workout, that's a different situation. So because those things, those workouts rely so much on glycogen, like heavily on glycogen, which is stored carbohydrates. So while our body can use fat as fuel, it's not always the preferred fuel source. When you're asking for that type of workout, so it just depends on what you're after. In those sort of instances, it's not wrong, quote unquote, to have that fuel beforehand. And I think it's important because sometimes people start treating faster workouts like a Magnus Opus kind of thing, like it's somehow superior.

Barry Conrad
You know, and they're not, they're just a tool, whatever works best for you. And I think the goal isn't to suffer through a workout. So you can say, I did it fasted, I worked out fasted. The goal is to get the benefits of the workout. And that's a mindset thing.

Another thing I think that people can sometimes overlook is recovery. And I talked about that before. If you're training at the tail end of your fast, say even at the tail end of your day and you feel energized afterwards, I'd say safe to say you're recovering pretty well. You're sleeping well, you're eating well in your window. Your strength is improving and you're enjoying your workouts. And that's all a great sign.

But if you're, for example, constantly tired, constantly exhausted, your performance is dropping, you're getting injured more often, you're sort of dreading those sessions and you're struggling to recover, that could be just a sign that your body's telling you something. And hydration and electrolytes, shout out to hydration and electrolytes, seriously. I've learned this the hard way as well. Sometimes what can feel like low energy isn't a lack of food or sleep even, it's dehydration or low sodium.

So for example, if you're fasting, even if you're fasting and you're drinking lots of water, sweating and training, a simple electrolyte adjustment can change the game. It can change completely how a worker can feel. But one thing I do enjoy about training near the end of a fast is what comes afterwards. There's that satisfying feeling about finishing a workout and then guess what? Breaking your fast baby with a nutrient dense meal, which is awesome. So that can feel great and that you've earned it, your body's ready.

But it's again, go into that rhythm of what you enjoy, what feels good. Don't push through that just because you think you should. The biggest thing going back to what I said in the start of this answer is flexibility. I really believe in that because your normal might be XYZ, but be kind to yourself. If you're not feeling it that day, be flexible.

You can always jump back on tomorrow. Early on, I know for sure, I probably would have been way more rigid about this. I would have thought there's one way. Now I've way more in touch with my rhythm because your body's constantly giving you feedback, which you already are paying attention to. So yeah, best workout is the time that allows you to train consistently, recover properly and enjoy the process. Mel, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. That was really epic. So well, quick, really quick.

I pulled up my notes from Dr. Gabrielle Lyon because I wanted to check that. So she said that working out when sleep deprived, high intensity interval training may be best for preventing cognitive impairment from the sleep deprivation. And then this is not in my notes, but I think in general doing resistance training when your sleep deprives, because sleep deprivation is catabolic, so it breaks down your muscles. So doing some, even if it's light resistance training when sleep deprived, stimulates the muscles since that anabolic stimulus so can help with muscle preservation. Okay. Just wanted to say that. Back to Leslie's question. I agree. I feel like the main takeaway, and you said this a few times, and I disagree so much, is that the best exercise is the exercise that you do. So whatever works best in your lifestyle that you find enjoyable that you will keep doing consistently, that's what I would lead with.

I will say it really does depend on your goals as far as the physical aspect. So if burning stubborn fat, for example, is one of your goals, training at the very end, like right before breaking your fast, especially if it's a longer fast. And I've thought this for years. And again, there's a guest that talks about this as well, who is escaping my memory at the moment. But it's a really good way to burn stubborn fat, because once you're at that point where you're really deep into the fast, your glycogen is depleted in theory. So your body has to turn to fat burning mode more. Growth hormone is also elevated during fasting. So once you eat right after, you're going to have a bigger bolus and a bigger boost from that. And then like Barry was saying, you might find that you just feel lighter and more focused. And for me, I like that you can eat right after, because some people work out earlier, and then they find that they're hungry after, as far as like doing, and we've talked about this historically throughout the show, but some, especially like high performance athletes and such, might need to have more intense scheduled training with their meals and might do better with fed training. I think things like that though, we do know that as long as you're eating within a 24 hour window, after you're working out, especially with like the muscle, sorry, the stimulus from like resistance training, like you can still maintain and even build muscle. So the idea that you're going to just waste away and lose muscle is not accurate. But as far as I know, now I'm just saying the same thing over and over. I do think if your goal is to really tap into fat burning, especially like stubborn fat, then the tail end of the fast is an awesome time to do it. Or if your goal is to feel very light and focused, like Barry was saying, a great time to do it. And then all of that said, the best time is the time that you're actually going to do it. So good. I do think it's a good hack though.

Barry Conrad
No, I totally forgot about that because I know we talked about that in the past and I have actually done that towards the end, like jumped on that Stairmaster at the very end of my fast, like do my regular weight training in the morning, but then at the end of the day, jump on the Stairmaster or the incline walk and yep, that zaps that fat all the way down, really does.

Melanie Avalon
Again, going back to talking earlier about traveling, I think that's another reason that the, because I don't normally, I'm not normally like walking around a lot and stuff like that at the end of my fast. I'm usually in my apartment doing work, but like when I'm traveling, I'm like out, I'm doing things.

It really helps me tap into that fat burning mode. So, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment speaking of?

Barry Conrad
I thought you'd never ask.

Melanie Avalon
Okay

Barry Conrad
Sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
I know this is one of my favorite parts of the show. So every show we like to celebrate the importance of the evening window as well as the fast by profiling restaurants that we feel are really cool and we talk about what we would order.

And so I am picking today's restaurant.

Barry Conrad
I'm so excited. I can't wait. I'm in suspense. Is it going to be Disney? Is it going to be scary? Is it going to be, I don't know, Taylor Swift esque? I'm not sure. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
I wanted to do something in honor of Las Vegas since I was just there. And I thought about it and I thought about doing one of the restaurants that I wanted to go to in the hotel. Maybe I'll do that in the hotel Conrad. Maybe I'll do that next time.

But I found a different one, which is actually in multiple cities. And the reason I want to do this one is because it used to be in LA and it's not anymore. And I loved it. And I haven't, I went, I think he's rebranded since then. And you might have heard of it because there's one in New York too, I'll send it to you. Have you been to the bazaar?

Barry Conrad
No, but I've heard about this place.

Melanie Avalon
I really want to know I tried to quickly find it out. I feel like because now it's called like bizarre meat. Yeah, I don't think it was called that when it was I went back in college so a long time ago when it was in LA.

But what it's really what's really cool about it's by Jose Andres. Is that how you say his name? I should know this.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so it's bizarre meat, not there's bizarre ma, bizarre meat, bar centro, so bizarre meat, yeah?

Melanie Avalon
Bazaar, mar, maybe that's, it's in Vegas. That's in Vegas too. Oh wait, a place to enjoy the freshest fruits from the sea. Oh, so it's like a seafood one. Okay, so he must have, I could be wrong, but he must have rebranded it a little bit. Because when I went in LA, it was just the bazaar and it was, I think, and it was so cool. It was like the vibe of this place is like whimsical wonderland. It feels like Willy Wonka. They do really intriguing and interesting food combinations. Like when I went, it was all about like the science of, they used like scientists to come up with the flavor combinations and stuff. And I think it was like dishes with liquid nitrogen. And to this day, I remember some of the, I remember, you know when there's like a dish that sticks with you forever and ever? We got this prosciutto and I swore, I could have sworn up and down that it was, what did it taste like? It tasted like almonds. Like I could have sworn it was like flavored and it wasn't. It's just because they acorns, I think that was it. It's the pigs that it came from like only ate a diet of like acorns and it tasted like that. It was amazing.

But we can do, well, you should go to the one in New York. I'm gonna write that down. But now they have bizarre meat. So the locations are Las Vegas, Chicago, Miami Beach, New York, Washington, DC, Nashville, coming soon to Glendale in Los Angeles. So I guess it's coming back. So yeah, it must be different because now it's like bizarre meat. So I think there's a little bit more of a meat focus rather than the standard focus. But okay, should we do the Vegas one? Or should we do New York? Since you can actually go there.

Barry Conrad
Well, you choose. What do you reckon? Because, yeah, you choose. The ball is in your court.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if it's the same menu. Let me see.

Barry Conrad
Okay, I'm going into bizami right now, clicking on the menus.

Melanie Avalon
So New York only has bizarre meat, but Vegas has bizarre Marr and bizarre meat. Now this is so hard. What should we do? What should we do?

Barry Conrad
Well, you love, I feel like you love seafood, but I feel like you love meat more.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and should we do Vegas or should we do New York? I'm gonna see if they're the same menu.

Barry Conrad
Yes, you did the same.

Melanie Avalon
moment of truth.

Barry Conrad
Here we go, drumroll brrrrr.

Melanie Avalon
I think it's similar, but no, it's not.

Barry Conrad
in a good or a bad way.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. It's just different. It's different.

Barry Conrad
I feel like because you were just there.

Melanie Avalon
Do Vegas. Yeah. Do you find the menu?

Barry Conrad
I've got the dinner menu open.

Melanie Avalon
located in the Venetian and it's a wild celebration of the carnivorous where bold flavors theatrical flair and inventive techniques redefine the modern steakhouse.

Barry Conrad
Sounds great. Sounds delicious.

Melanie Avalon
We have the men, the dinner menu. Oh, there it is. The first thing on the menu. Do you see it?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's all I see.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so the first thing on the menu is the Jamon Iberico De Balota hand cut from the famous acorn-fed black-footed Spanish pig. I swear it tastes like acorns.

I didn't believe them. I was like, this has acorns in it.

Barry Conrad
Do they have is it like a big portion or is it like a little like what it how does it come is it a

Melanie Avalon
Well, again, this was like a long time ago, but back then it was small because it's it's like prosciutto.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. Well, I have to try that, so I'm getting that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is like it's literally the first thing and they call it the the gemone experience so you can get yeah We'll just we'll just get that

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but also there's that you see there's the impoteros, which is a Spanish and domestic cured meats platter. So I wonder if that would be on there too or not.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, probably and it probably includes it. I just want that. I want the gem on. I want I want it. I've been thinking about it ever since then ever since

Barry Conrad
It sounds delicious. Interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, do you want any of the little snacks?

Barry Conrad
Definitely Patatas Pravas, because I'm a big fan. I love those. And then...

Melanie Avalon
Oh, here's see here's where like they do weird things like they have cotton candy foie gras

Barry Conrad
That's so okay. You know, that sounds wild that I love foie gras.

Never try cotton candy foie gras. So let me just dive in and do that. Crispy corn with crispy corn nuts, cotton candy foie gras. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Maybe some of the Neptune's pillow, which is tuna sashimi with ricotta mayo and air bread. I would just have the sashimi, please.

Barry Conrad
Yum. What interesting names by the way too. I like their names.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if they still do it, like the one in LA had a gift shop and it was like Willy, I swear it was like Willy Wonka. Okay, do you want any of their little sandwiches?

Barry Conrad
I love a Philly cheesesteak vibe, so I'm going to grab one of those, but what's really catching my eye is below that, which I'm sure you can see.

Melanie Avalon
The sloppy gel. Oh, you're at the oysters. The next section is oysters. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
But before I go there, do you want any of the little sandwiches?

Melanie Avalon
No. No. Your Philly cheesesteak, by the way, comes with Wagyu beef.

Barry Conrad
which is great. That's partly why I got it as well, because it's not just the basic one.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Okay. Here we are from the raw bar. We arrived.

Barry Conrad
What would you like to get from the robot, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
I will have a shrimp cocktail, please. I love a good shrimp cocktail.

And it comes with Pecu, Pecu-o, Pecu-o, I can't speak, I don't know what that word is, cocktail sauce and avocado. I'll have all of that on the side.

Barry Conrad
I will have half a dozen of the ponzu oysters and half a dozen of the smoked oysters, and the ponzu oysters come with just ponzu, ginger, salmon roe, and smoked oysters, applewood smoked oysters, apple mignonette, air, and then I'm going to also get a shrimp cocktail because I just don't have them enough, so I want to just try them all.

Melanie Avalon
I have them all the time. I literally every every time it's on the menu, I usually get one.

Barry Conrad
They're refreshing, they're almost like a dessert in a way. You know, they're cold, they're delicious, you know?

Melanie Avalon
I ate a lot of shrimp on this trip as well. It's a good thing to get from like, yeah, like at Whole Foods because you can just get it, it's already cooked, you know? So it's easy, it travels well, you can eat it while traveling.

Okay, ooh. Now we have the, from the Jamon bar, we have tartars. Do you want any? I love tartar. This is, this is a double yes. I want the classic, beef sirloin, egg yolk, mustard sauce, anchovy, Parker rolls, sauce on the side.

Barry Conrad
I will also get the classic. You can't go wrong with the classic and I'll give that all. That sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, now we have carpaccio. This is like meat heaven. Literally like every form of meat. I'm so happy here.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, aren't you glad we chose this one of the seafood one, the Ma?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. I feel like I need to do the seafood one next time because I'm really curious what it is. I probably will do it next time.

Carpaccio. Love Carpaccio. Yes. Oh, they have bison buffalo style. Yes. I want bison buffalo carpaccio. I've never had that. It comes with pickled cherry, blue cheese, buffalo wing sauce. Oh, but it's still bison. So I'll have that but all the stuff on the side.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go the wagyu kapachio, Japanese wagyu, horseradish, creme fraiche, caramelized onion, meganas and capers. Yum!

This is honestly so delicious, the more we go down it's like a little surprise. Treasure hunt.

Melanie Avalon
soups and salads, anything you want.

Barry Conrad
I mean, I think I'll leave that for this time around.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. And now we are two meats from the fire. And the quote says, come on, guys. This is why you are here, as Jose Andre says.

This is the heart and soul of bizarre meat. Our young animals are nested in a Spanish Cozuela and roasted in a wood-fired oven. This traditional method achieves a crispy skin and juicy interior. Okay. So they have, oh, wow. They have an entire one-fourth suckling pig. And a whole suckling pig? Oh my goodness. That's where it's like the entire pig, right? Like... The whole thing. Oh, it's $620.

Barry Conrad
Imagine though, I mean, Mel, can you, yeah, I mean, that's a lot. Imagine having a, how would they serve that?

Melanie Avalon
9 to 11 pounds. Yeah, I wonder.

Barry Conrad
Would they cut off the meat for the guests or would we have to like sort of just cut it off the pig? You know what I'm trying to say? Like, how do they?

Melanie Avalon
I'm looking it up. I need to know. I need to see.

Barry Conrad
Imagine a massive pig in between us. We're just trying to talk and looking around the pig like, hey.

Melanie Avalon
I'm seeing I'm seeing if it comes off on Google images. Oh, yeah, there it is.

Really? It's kind of like, you know, when you when there's like prime prime rib, it's like that, but it's like the pig. They like cut slices off of it.

Oh, my goodness. Oh, it looks kind of. Oh, man.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, not feeling it.

Melanie Avalon
No, I mean, it's interesting. It's just crazy, because it's like the entire pig is right there.

Barry Conrad
Well, that's, that's quite a, an offer. I mean, that's 24 hours notice, but still, what if a lot of people, what if 20 people wanted a whole pig? That's, that's a little.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder how many they sell a day, you know, you got to imagine that there's like a lot of business dinners where they're trying to impress their clients and, you know, order this.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, of course. A whole suckling pig. Are you tempted by the quarter suckling pig or the whole suckling pig at all? Not really.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, if it's like just me and you, I feel like a quarter suckling pig. But if it's like a whole thing, I mean, I would like to see that for sure.

If this is all being paid for by somebody, then yes. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think the quarter something. Yeah, if we're like when we're eating and be the quarter, we're not going to do the whole thing.

That's I feel like we'd have a lot of to go containers if we did the whole cycling thing.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I wonder if anybody's tried to order it to go.

Barry Conrad
Can I have a pig to go with, please? A whole pig.

Melanie Avalon
And that's the first time we've seen that on a menu, right?

Barry Conrad
Same first time ever. I've never heard of that or seen it and didn't think that was even something restaurants could offer.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, now we are to our big guy's cooked Jose's way, which is 46 degrees Celsius. What is that in Fahrenheit? Is that hot?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely not.

Melanie Avalon
114.8.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's pretty hot.

Melanie Avalon
So is this the, okay, oh, so these are rib state, these are bone and rib eyes. Oh, and it's the ranches that they're from. That's cool.

Barry Conrad
You like that.

Melanie Avalon
I love seeing where they're from. So I would want to look up these different ranches and see if any of them are like, you know, regenerative, organic, or if they're grass, you know, if they're grass fed.

I wish they had like a tasting.

Barry Conrad
Like one of the other restaurants we saw, we could do like little trios of things. Remember that?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, in Memphis.

Barry Conrad
Well, maybe we could get like a little, I don't know. We can maybe talk to the chef and see what we could do, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they do tasting later for the Wagyu. This menu is so complicated.

So right underneath that they have so from all of this meat stuff, because right underneath it, then they have like other things. Do you see what would you get out of all this stuff?

Barry Conrad
Well, out of the big guys, I'm intrigued by the, the Akashi. I'm not sure why I just would want to try that, but I, I agree. I'd like to like do a tasting situation, see even if we can have like a taste before we try it or order, it's a big commitment to order our whole thing without knowing.

Melanie Avalon
I'm asking chat. I gave it a picture if any of these are grass fed. Oh, it's a breed. Oh, wait, I don't know. It's not being helpful.

Barry Conrad
Well, I will go with the Akashi. I think I'll go with the Akashi and then also I would want to, from the nuts of big guys, I love pork chops so much.

I'd want to grab some pork chops underneath there.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I think I would ask them if one of the ribeyes is grass-fed and leaner, and if so, I might get that. Or maybe they have a bone-in strip. Or I've never had beef cheeks, have you?

Barry Conrad
I actually have, and it's really good. This is a stew, never mind. You don't like stews? Let's go to Yahoo, we've got stuff inside it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I think I would go with the, actually, I think I'll get the bone and strip and or possibly the, the leanest ribeye available. Would you get any of the Wagyu?

Barry Conrad
You know, I would try this, the snow aged wagyu that sounds interesting.

Melanie Avalon
That just sounds cool.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it sounds cool. So it sounds like we're trying Marukami Niigata Prefecture Snow Age Wagyu. Let's go. Let's try it. I'm all for it. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would want them to like tell me about the different ones and again, I feel like all Wagyu is, I don't know, I would have a lot of questions about the farms they come from. You know, it's funny.

So the next section is from the sea and it's just four things. I wonder at the Marr restaurant, is it like all sea stuff, but then there's like a from the land and it's like four things.

Barry Conrad
Just four things, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to do it as my next restaurant so we can find out. Would you get anything from the sea?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll get the guess what I get, you might get hurt.

Melanie Avalon
Do you want the, I know, I mean, I know it's either the, is it the octopus?

Barry Conrad
Yep. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
the grilled pulpo a la galaga, Galician-style octopus, potato, and pimenton.

Barry Conrad
I've had grilled octopus probably a couple of times this past month. I just love it so much. It's really good.

Melanie Avalon
Shockingly unexpensive compared to everything else on the menu. I wonder why that's interesting

Barry Conrad
That is interesting.

Melanie Avalon
I was actually thinking about you at the Whole Foods counter yesterday.

Barry Conrad
Why? What did you get?

Melanie Avalon
They had an octopus and I was like, I don't know. I just thought about you.

I was like, maybe I should get that. Did you get it? No. No. I did get an entire branzino and I like the entire fish, you know, like the whole fish eyes and everything.

Barry Conrad
I also had dinner real quick with another Melanie, but it's Melanie, not Melanie. And she also famously does not like oysters and does not like octopus.

So it's like, is it a Melanie thing? I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I don't know, well, I don't like oysters. I don't know if I don't like octopus, but oysters, yeah.

Barry Conrad
Well, she doesn't know either. She's like, is that, have you tried it? No, just, I just don't like it. It just doesn't, you know,

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no, no.

Barry Conrad
Do you see anything from the vegetables and potatoes?

Melanie Avalon
No. Do you?

Barry Conrad
No, because I reckon I got the bravo sputata, so I think I'll be good with that.

Melanie Avalon
Shall we look at the dessert menu? Let's do it. Can I have a bite of your pork chops too, by the way?

Barry Conrad
Sure. Of course you can. This is one of those places where we need it need a few hours to kind of really settle in.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man, okay, menus, go back to menus, desserts.

Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting.

Melanie Avalon
Can I guess?

Barry Conrad
There's a couple of things that I'm going to get actually, and only because I've been having one of the other things more recently as well.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, are you gonna get the oh, this is hard. I feel like you would like want to try most of these the first thing

Barry Conrad
I want to do the chocolate hazelnut mousse because it's chocolate and then the tart de queso because it's like Basque cheesecake. Yeah, I've been having a lot of like that kind of cheesecake lately and it's really good.

Melanie Avalon
Would you add truffle and chestnut honey for $45? That's, it better be minuet honey.

Barry Conrad
that should be like a whole other dessert it's like special no i think i'll leave that but that sounds good what about you

Melanie Avalon
I would be getting a repeat of something from the dinner menu, maybe more of that ham, the acorn fed, the acorn fed prosciutto. And then they have lots of lines.

Let me see if I see anything right off the... So I'd have to look these up and see which ones, again, are organic. Oh, I've actually had one of these. Which one? Round pond. I'm pretty sure they're organic. Is it good? It's very traditional Napa cab. So it's very full bodied and it is good. But I would want something from Europe. So maybe the Nebbiolo or probably the Nebbiolo, or maybe the Cab Franc if that is a organic winery.

Barry Conrad
You know what, I'm actually going to get, I don't have to do by the bottle, but I'd want to get like a bottle of the Pinot Noir, the 2023 Leoco Mendocino County, California Pinot Noir, just because there's so much meat going on here. I'm just going to stick to some red.

Melanie Avalon
I love that. I love that your intense red is a pinot noir, which is like the lightest red. I'm not I'm not shaming you.

Barry Conrad
No, you know what, I happily admit that I'm not as versed in red, so if you want to educate me on a heavier red, please, especially for this meal.

Melanie Avalon
Pino's tends to be lighter. So if you wanted something for really to meatsteak, you would want a Syrah or a Cabernet, Sauvignon. The Tempranil can be heavier.

Barry Conrad
The Tempranillo blend. I love Tempranillo, so maybe that could be a situation. Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
but probably like Sera and Kabsav are the intense ones. But you like to Prinioso, you know?

Barry Conrad
I do. I still can't get over the Syrah to the Shirez.

Melanie Avalon
Sarash, Aras, Sarah, it's so funny. Depends where you're from. Okay. Awesome. Well, I really want to go here. Same. Interesting that they're opening too in Los Angeles, you know.

Barry Conrad
Do you know which parts?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, one says Glendale and then one says Glendale and just Los Angeles. I wonder if it's going to be where it used to be, which was, I think, like, I think it was in West Hollywood.

Barry Conrad
That would go off for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, let's see. Oh, it might be downtown. Oh, let's see. It's gonna be oh, guess what? It's gonna be at the Conrad Los Angeles

Barry Conrad
That's great. I love it. I need to stay there.

Melanie Avalon
It's going to be the con, the first Conrad hotel in Los Angeles, in California. And they are going to have two Jose Andre group things. They're going to have, uh, what are they going to have? I'm not sure. I guess they'll have that. And then they'll have something else. Very cool. Oh, he's here. He, he said, I love Los Angeles. It's where we debuted the bazaar years ago.

Yes. And since then we've evolved with many new stories to share through food. Okay. It's going to be downtown. Okie dokie. Well, listeners, friends, hope you enjoyed your time with us, I feel like we need to do like a vegetarian restaurant sometime to make up for all of this, but I wouldn't order anything. I would just drink wine the whole time. And then I would go home and eat, but for listeners and friends, thank you so much for spending your time with us. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at if podcast.com, or you can go to if podcast.com and submit questions there, and you can get all of the stuff that we like at if podcast.com slash stuff we like. And the show notes for today will be at if podcast.com slash episode 482. And yeah, you can follow us on Instagram. We are if podcast, I'm Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go.

Barry Conrad
That's all the things. Thank you so much for tuning in once again everyone and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

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