Welcome to Episode 486 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 486 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.
Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 486 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Mel, I am doing so great. I can't complain at all.
I was saying to Melanie offline just before listeners that I like at this time of year, the sun is still out even though it's, like, 8:00. And Melanie's like, "Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm not about it." She's like not impressed at all. Like, why don't you like, why don't you like it being lighter when it's dark, when it's lighter? Tell me.
Melanie Avalon
Because night is my time, and it's really ironic. I actually, I was literally thinking about this the other day. I was thinking about, you would think, since I'm a night owl, that I would let... There is-- Okay, I do like this. The one thing I like about it is that when it's still light at, like, 9:00 PM, I feel more normal because it's light outside, and of course it's still early for me. Like, it makes me feel more normal societally, like, in society.
But I don't... I just, I love the dark. I think it's, like, so-- It just makes everything look better, and it's not harsh, and it's, like, alluring and quiet and sexy. I love the dark. The dark is great.
Barry Conrad
It is great.
I was gonna-- Okay, to, to your point when you said that, do you like... You know how you s- you say you like to go out late and you like to do things late? Does that change now that it's still lighter? Say, for example, if it was this time a few months ago, it would be dark, and you'd-- Would you go out then, but now you'll still wait for the sun to set before you go out? Do you know what I'm trying to say?
Melanie Avalon
So this is actually, I don't, because, like... Well, the problem is, you know, if it's still light out, I'm not g- I'm not gonna go out after, you know, 9:00 PM for, like, the start of the event. But that is actually, that's actually one of the reasons I don't like it being light so much is because I love going out when it's dark.
So going out when it's light, mm. Especially for, like, a first date situation, no. They gotta see you in the dark. So we, that-- So we have to find, like, a really dark restaurant with no windows. No windows.
Barry Conrad
You don't want people to see you, and it just be like barely making out your silhouette.Like, "Hey, how are you?"
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.First impression is everything.You gotta, you...Darkness is like a built-in filter.It's like you walk around with, like, a filter.
Barry Conrad
That's actually really funny.So okay, when we fi- when we finally meet, are you gonna choose a place that's gonna be-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah.We're meeting in the dark
Barry Conrad
...soundbite of the show.I love that.Oh, yeah, we're meeting in the dark.That's so funny.
Melanie Avalon
You only get one first impression.
Barry Conrad
Well, you look great anyway.You don't have to impress me.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you.I don't care.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.Thank you, and I don't care.We're meeting in the dark.
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm just also more, like, in my vibe.Like, more...It's more...Yeah.Like, people who are like, "Wanna meet for coffee?" I'm like, "What?No."
Barry Conrad
You know, anything could happen in the future.You could change, you know, maybe...Who knows?Anything can happen, right?
Melanie Avalon
Anything can happen.Anything doesn't always happen, though.Usually doesn't happen.
Barry Conrad
Also, Mel, um, speaking of drinking and going out and whatnot, did you see the new NY Times article?
Melanie Avalon
No.Let me guess.Is it something about people not drinking?
Barry Conrad
It's about-
Melanie Avalon
The sober curious movement?
Barry Conrad
It's not about sober curious, but it's about, like... It's, like, federally commissioned kind of review situation basically saying that no amount of alcohol was found to provide a mortality benefit. It just came out, like, yesterday.
Melanie Avalon
Sorry.It's like, I feel like this keeps happening.I'm like, what is the incentive here?Like, where is this coming from?Like, why is, why is this the zeitgeist right now?
Barry Conrad
Well, like, for example, they're like, you know, it pushes against the old adage that, quote-unquote, "a glass of red wine is good for your heart" narrative, or according to the review, even, even one drink a day was associated with increased health risks. So it's just like... And I saw, I'm, I'm not gonna say who it is, but someone that we maybe both follow or whatever, I did see a post of this person interviewing someone else, and I commented on the post because this person was basically demonizing alcohol.
I don't understand why this happens every so often now. It's like the new, the, the new thing, the new trend.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, it's definitely, definitely a trend. And it's just, yeah, it's, it's interesting. I don't, I don't know. The, the majority of the people who-- Well, there are a lot of people that I really respect that are very smart, and they will typically say that the, like, entire body of literature is probably either, like, neutral or, like, slightly positive for moderate drinking, especially, like, red wine.
And it does affect different- ... things differently. Like the different health conditions that it's related to, it might help some, might hurt others. I don't know. I, I am, I don't... Yeah. And I, and I am all for people doing whatever you wanna do. Like, if you don't wanna drink, don't drink. But yeah, it's interesting. I'll have to read the New York Times article.
Barry Conrad
I mean, the biggest, the biggest thing that they said is isn't that it's suddenly worse than what we thought. It's more like they're saying, like, the evidence keeps moving away from the idea that moderate drinking is health promoting.
Like, it's more like it suggests the benefits were, like, overstated. It's not making it... It's not worse. It's just like, oh, it's not as good as what people thought it might've been.
Melanie Avalon
I just think you need to be really specific about what is drinking. So is this, like, people considering having a cosmopolitan, like a couple cosmopolitans at the bar?
That's really different than a, like, organic dry-farmed low alcohol red wine from France. Like very different.
Barry Conrad
'Cause the centenarians, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I mean, I don't think that, like, alcohol is what makes a centenarian, but I do know that all of the longest lived populations do drink except for one.
Barry Conrad
You know all these big dogs in the biohacking world. It'd be so interesting at your next dinner party situation or something, imagine if you're like, "Okay, everyone. I wanna talk about something," and just, like, got the conversation, just see, like, a healthy debate about it. I'd just be so curious to see what everyone, what everyone's pros and cons, and what they're for and against in terms, in regards to alcohol just to see.
I don't know. It's just like... Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. No. It's, it's really interesting. It's definitely a good, like... I like the, the podcast formats where they'll, like, interview two guests and they'll do, like, opposing views. Yeah, that would be a really, really good topic.
I'm just waiting for it to pass, honestly. And again, and again, like, if you're a heavy drinker, yes, def- not good for you. If you're a binge drinker, not good for you. If you are having six glasses a week but you're having them all on one night, which is a binge drinking situation, not good for you. If you're having high sugar, high alcohol, and/or high sugar and/or high alcohol drinks, not good. But if you're putting in... You know, it- it's really a matter of what you're drinking and how you're drinking it, I think. Just my opinion, my two cents.
Barry Conrad
Absolutely.That aside, how are you doing?
Melanie Avalon
I, actually really quick, Link, because we actually are... I know I keep talking about my dating app Craving. We actually are moving forward with it, I promise. And guys, get on the email list because we mentioned dating, we mentioned drinking. You will be able to, on this dating app, filter by or put your preferences. You know, are you a wine drinker? Are you super curious? Are you not drinking? And you, you can actually filter people by that. So to get on that email list, go to cravingdating.com. Definitely put your email there for all of the updates.
I'm good. Can I tell you a really quick funny story? So I'm always really fascinated... I don't know how you feel about this. I feel good about myself making good decisions. Like, I trust myself. I tend to make, think about things. I tend to make good decisions. I trust my future self, my past self, my current self. Sometimes I make a decision and in retrospect I'm like, "That was the stupidest decision ever. Like, what were you thinking?" And I did that recently.
Barry Conrad
What, what happened?
Melanie Avalon
It's just silly.So you know how I do my throw something away?Like throw one thing away every day?
Barry Conrad
Yeah.I do.
Melanie Avalon
So listeners, I highly recommend this practice, but don't make the mistake that I did. It's called throw something away every day. You walk around your living environment. You throw something away. You put a sticker on a calendar. It's great.
Helps you get rid of so much stuff, declutter, you know. And it might not seem like much to throw one thing away, but if you do it every day, that's 365 things you took away from your living space. I threw away, I realized this, I had this container and it was all of these keys, keys from like years and years, like just all these keys. And so I, during one day, during my throw everything away, I was like, "I don't remember what these are for, so they can't really be to anything important." So I threw away all my keys. What was I thinking? What was I thinking? 'Cause I realized what one of the keys was, it was to my safe. Because my safe is a combination lock, like it's like electronic, but if the battery dies, which it just did, you can't open it without the key. So lesson learned.
Can you believe I did that? I threw away keys.
Barry Conrad
It happens.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.
Barry Conrad
You were so committed to the cause and you just, you know, you were just...Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I know. I will say though, friends, this is not a cautionary tale.
Well, it's a cautionary tale, but you should still do it because I will s- like, in the entirety of, of me doing this, which has been a, probably a few years now, it's really only been like two or three times where I, mm, maybe four times where I actually threw something away that I regret, but it's worth it in the end for everything else that you throw away.
Barry Conrad
Melanie, can I ask, so does it have to be actual items like, you know, like artifacts in your living room, like, you know, ornaments or something? Or can it be something random like, you know, an envelope?
Like, does it have to be... You know what I'm trying to say? Like what cons- like what classifies-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes. Let's clarify the rules here. It can't be something that is already trash. So if you open like a letter and y- there's like an o- the envelope, that doesn't count. Throwing away that envelope doesn't count.
It also can't be, and I do this though, uh, I just, these rules are, I'm making up these rules if you're wondering. Um, it also should not be something, again, I kinda, I kinda do this though anyways. Like if you had a product, like some shampoo, and then it's empty and you throw it away, but you didn't order a new one yet. Sometimes, I mean, that, that actually is, that goes with rule one, which is if it's trash. Yeah, so it c- it can't be that. If you're like replacing a product, that doesn't count. Otherwise, it can really be anything.
Barry Conrad
But it can't be trash.It can't be like garbage.No, it can't be.Okay.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.
Barry Conrad
Wow.Okay.So you must have a lot of little trinkets and things then because- Like little things, like pens and stuff.Yeah, lots of stuff.Products.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm.Products, memories.
Barry Conrad
It's good though to discard-
Melanie Avalon
Even stuff like... See, this shouldn't count either, but sometimes I'm so desperate to find something. It's weird.
Sometimes I can find like five things at once, and sometimes I can't find anything. Sometimes I will go to like my tool box section, and I have like a thing of like 100 screws, and I'll throw away like a screw, and I'll count that. But sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, like you're out of time and... And it actually does slowly, like my tool section, very cleaned out now. Okay, here's, here's the last thing. Here's the last thing. And if you're on the fence that's like, "Ah, but I might need this random like specific bolt that I don't know what it goes to, but I m- " If that, if it comes to that, you can order another bolt and it'll be like a dollar, so. Like there are a lot of things that are like very specific and random. You can just buy a new one.
Barry Conrad
That's true.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.Sorry, that was a, that was a really long tangent.
Barry Conrad
No, because it... Now it's making me think about when I was still in Australia and you didn't episode, we did an episode where you talked about this topic, but then you also said something about memories. So if someone gives you a card or something like that, it's doesn't make it less special if you throw the card away because you, the, the memory, like the moment has happened.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So there are a lot... People hold on to a lot of things for, well, well, A, for the memory. Also, it's often like guilt, like, "This person gave me this thing." Uh, e- there's a few different things. So one is like a nostalgic memory, "Oh, I need to keep it because it's the nostalgic memory." A lot of times, like, like you said, that thing already happened. You can take pictures of it. You don't actually have to keep it.
But even worse is like the guilt thing. It's like, "Oh, this person gave me this." It is so hard, at least for me, to give away like gifts that I didn't actually want because the person gave it to you. But the act of love happened when they gave it to you. It's not like you have to keep it to, you know, make them love you more or honor their love. You can get rid of it.
Barry Conrad
To piggyback on that, what do you, what's your view on if someone gives you something as a gift, which is sweet, but you're just not ever gonna use it? Like do you believe in re-gifting it to someone else, or how do you feel about that?
Melanie Avalon
I'm a big fan of re-gifting, if applicable, if it's, if it makes sense. I'm a big fan of just giving, yeah, just giving it away. Like not like a gift per se, but just giving it to somebody who would like it, or Goodwill, or selling it.
Barry Conrad
Totally different pivot now, but I, I just had this thought. Quite a few people that I know recently, Mel, have like around like 30s, like mid to late 30s, early 40s, are all of a sudden getting like, becoming lactose intolerant or, or something intolerant. I wonder what that is. It's so weird.
Like I, I feel like it, like three or four people within the last year I know it's happened to. I don't get it. Do you experience this, like know people who this is happening to?
Melanie Avalon
I think culturally we're, we're getting all the intolerances, and I think it's because we're so exposed to so many environmental toxins and, and things that wreck our gut and all of these different things that our immune system is just becoming overreactive. Lactose intolerance is a little bit different because that just has to do with if you're making lactase or not, which is an enzyme from the pancreas that breaks down milk. Humans have it when they're young because they drink breast milk. Some populations and genetics maintain it, some don't. So it's a very like genetic thing oftentimes.
But as far as like sensitivities to things, I do think we're becoming way over sensitive now and it's... Like I said, it's just because we, we have leaky gut because we eat these toxic foods that rip apart our, our intestinal lining. These things slip into our bloodstream. Our immune system starts reacting to different things that it should be reacting to and also normally would not have been reacting to, like, you know, like peanut allergies, you know. Like they're so intense today and yeah, I think it's the environment.
Barry Conrad
I feel great. I mean, I can only attribute that to intermittent fasting. Like my gut feels fine. I c- sometimes I pause and I go, "Am I fine?" You know, because everyone else around me is like, not everyone, but a lot of people are getting these intolerances. But I feel fine.
I feel good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I, I mean, I wouldn't really know because I don't really eat any of the things, but I don't think I would feel well.
But I think that's a different, it's a different reason. It's not because I'm like inundated with the things with a leaky gut. It's that I've cut them out, so then bringing it back is, you know, the body might have a certain response.
Barry Conrad
I know we just jumped all over the place there, but I hope you guys enjoyed that.
Melanie Avalon
Shall we jump into some fasting related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right. So to start things off, I have a study. So this study is published in Appetite June 26th, June 1st. So it's very new.
And the title is Food Variety Affects Food Selection and Variety-Seeking Behaviors in an Immersive Virtual Reality Food Buffet. Which is like kind of ironic because we do our proverbial breaking of the fast in our minds in, on this show, but this was like the use of virtual reality food buffet. Basically what they did, so it was done at Penn State, and they had 50 adults ages 18 to 65, 32 of which were female, and they selected foods for a meal once a week for three weeks in a randomized crossover design. So what that means is that the participants were like their own... They were being compared to each other and it was random, and each week they would g- randomly get one of the three options, which was the buffet that was set at low, so it only had nine foods, the buffet that was medium, it had 18 foods, or the buffet that was high and had 27 foods, like different types of foods. And they found that the more variety that there was, the more the participants Like picked more food to eat in this virtual situation. So in the medium condition, they picked 422 more calories than the low, and then in the high it was 649 more calories than the low. And also as variety increased, they also created- they also selected a greater total number of foods, which I would, I would... That makes sense. I would, I would predict that. And it was driven by higher energy-dense foods rather than lower energy-dense ones. So when there was more options, like 27 options, people were more likely to pick the higher calorie stuff and pick more different types of foods. And like I said, like literally they picked 650 more calories worth f- at the high one. And yeah, so, so bas- basically the takeaway, 'cause this has a lot of implications for not just buffets, but also the grocery store and for me, how you stock your kitchen. So basically if you are surround- if you surround yourself with a lot more options, this study seems to indicate that you are going to eat more calories, you're gonna pick more foods, you're gonna pick higher calorie foods, and you're gonna eat more calories. So they say variety is the spice of life. Might not be the spice of life if your goal is to not encourage overeating. Basically eating simply and surrounding yourself, like making your environment have less options can help you like eat less without even meaning to, just by how you surround yourself in the environment. So Barry, what are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
This is, this is so interesting. I, I love the, the, the, uh, component of this and, and also why- all the while while you was sharing about the smell, it made me think about the whole thought of where, you know, like your environment creates your... You know, like it's so important, like setting out your workout clothes in the morning or putting a vision board up or just w- what you see just influences you so much, what's around you. So it just, that makes total sense to me.
That's not even, this wasn't even hunger that drove the people to choose these hundreds of extra calories, it was simply like having more options. That's crazy to me and also not surprising. And also it was the more variety. Like you could ha- if you had the same... N- not to sound boring, but if you had the same foods that you like to have day in and day out around you, chances are you're probably not gonna eat hundreds of extra calories 'cause you're used to it and you've really bolstered your environment to set you up for a win. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Exactly, yes. And like we know evolutionarily that our bodies seek out variety because that will give us a lot of different nutrients. It would've helped us like find new food sources. So the, the body loves variety and you can notice this, like if you eat the same thing you can feel kind of full. But then if you get like dessert or like get a new, get something different, your hunger will like come back, like your appetite will come back because of this effect of variety.
And I could not agree more with what you said about the environment. Like the envi- your environment, I don't wanna say it's everything, it's so, so powerful though. Talk about willpower. Willpower is a limited finite resource. We know this. We know that it gets depleted with every decision that you make. So setting yourself up with an environment that supports not even having to make these decisions is incredible. And that's the reason that like fasting can be so helpful because you don't have to use willpower 'cause you don't have to make the decision about, am I gonna eat or am I not gonna eat? Because you're just not eating 'cause it's not your window. So it's not taxing on willpower. And then like in your environment, you know? And even here's something. So people might be like, "Oh, I'm gonna like buy these ultra processed food treats and I'm only gonna have them occasionally and I'll like keep it in the pantry." When your brain knows it's there, it is now an option. And so even if you're not consciously thinking about it, subconsciously your brain will probably want it. When it v- versus when it's not in the environment and it's not an option, you're not thinking about it. So it's like so mu- like don't, if you don't wanna eat the things, don't buy them. Don't buy them and don't go to the grocery store hungry because you'll buy so much more. Yeah, that was rants and tangents, but what, what do you think, Barry?
Barry Conrad
No, Mel, I totally, I couldn't agree more and like for example, we don't keep anything in the apartment that's like a... Also like, you know, you know what I mean when I say ultra, ultra processed junk food specifically. Like obviously protein powders and things are processed as well, but I mean like trinkets. So not keeping that in the apartment means, guess what? When you're watching something late at night and there's Netflix and you're feeling frisky and you want to eat all the food, it's not there, so guess what? You can't have it.
But if it's there, as you said, you're gonna have it. I've done it, so I know you're going to have it. So doesn't matter how strongly willed you are, if you see it and your mind knows it's there, it's gonna happen. And also equally, if you have a goal like, oh, tomorrow I really wanna work on this song, for example, I will literally leave the piano open, put my songwriting book on the chair, pull the chair out from the piano, wake up, see it. Or if I know I have to shoot content, I'll take my tripod out, out, put it in the center of the kitchen so I'm just like, "Oh, that's right, I've gotta do that." Otherwise you'll just not feel like doing it because we're conditioned for comfort. You have to trigger yourself, you know what I mean? Like your environment.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.I could not agree more.Set yourself up for success.
Barry Conrad
Do you do anything like that, Mel, on any kind of level, like in terms of your environment other than food as well?
Melanie Avalon
I'm t- I'm trying to think. I'm, I'm so... Like I, I'm trying to... It would have to be something I guess that I'm... I don't know. I, I'm so like structur- I guess I, I set up the s- I schedule, so it's more like a time environment, but I schedule the type of work I'm doing during the type of time during the day that I know is when I would want to do it, and I habit stack things and pair things together to make everything things I wanna do at the time I wanna do them. So that sounds vague, but basically like, like I do a sauna session every night in my sunlightened sauna, and I pair that with work that I- That has to be done on my phone. So I'm not just, like, sitting around on my phone, but now I'm, like, laying in the sauna, so this is when I can do Instagram stuff. And I look forward to it 'cause Instagram is fun, but, but I look forward to doing it in the sauna.
Or, like, I was talking-- I was telling you this offline the other day, like, I, I do, I do have wine every night, and so I pair that with the type of work that is more helpful when you're having some wine compared to, like, the work that I do during the day when I'm not drinking. And so I, I kinda like time set things up. But I don't know if I do anything, like, physically. I go to the gr... I mean, I do go to, like, the grocery store every day. Oh, well, that's one thing, I go to the grocery store. Well, you said not food related. I do go to the grocery store every day.
Barry Conrad
Also, like, you are pretty regimented, like, in terms of, like, you have your unwinding, like, your sleep wind-down. Like, the whole, you know, it's a whole thing, and that, that's something that you do consciously do, you know?
Like, your... all those things optimize your sleep.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah.So I guess it's more for me, it's, it's, like, time.I'm, I'm really scheduled with everything.
Barry Conrad
So good.Environment.The power of environment.L- awesome study, Mel.So good.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you.Thank you, thank you.Shall we jump into some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Yes, let's do it. And the first question we have today is from Maria on Facebook, and she says, "Hi, Melanie Avalon, hope you are well. I've just done my first 36-hour fast. Have been doing FLaG Advanced Reset and actually was onto the 13-hour fasts, but chucked a 36-hour one ahead of my hols," I'm guessing that's holidays, "and to experiment a bit. All good, dot, dot, dot, and interesting data-wise between fat burning and ketosis and back, but within 30 minutes of breaking my fast, my gut seemed to be on fast track." And then she has the poop emoji and, like, the face palm emoji and the wow emoji. "Back on track fast. Normal, but it was just so sudden and without more detail. Wasn't something I've experienced previously. I know the gut is supposed to reset when you do 24 hours. Anyway, do you talk about impact of fasting on the gut at all on any of your podcasts? Question mark."
Melanie Avalon
Maria, thank you so much for your question. It's interesting. I haven't actually heard of the FLaG Advanced Reset that you're doing. Congrats, though, on the 36-hour one.
That is very, very cool. So the gut on fast track thing and the impact of fasting on the gut, yes, we've talked about that quite a bit. And actually, if you go to ifpodcast.com, you can search. All of our shows have transcripts, so if you search on that site, you can pull up episodes that might talk about this. So you could just search for, like, the gut or any other keyword. So the... And when you say the impact of fasting on the gut, we, you know, we talked last week. Actually, we talked, we talked this week too. I was talking about the prob- the problems of modern food that it has on our gut and, you know, attacking our or messing up our intestinal lining. It leads to something called leaky gut. I don't think you're asking about that. I think you're asking more about your, the thing you're experiencing, which is you are fasting and then within 30 minutes of breaking your fast, you are, I'm g- guessing, feeling the need to have a bowel movement. So there are... Yes, this does not, this is not surprising. It's not uncommon. There's a few reasons that it can happen. So we have something called the migrating motor complex, and it's basically these housekeeping type contractions that the gut does every 90 minutes or so. So it basically keeps things moving through your digestive system, and it happens independent of you eating or not eating. Okay. So the example that you're talking about is breaking a fast after 36 hours, again, a very long time. So after 36 hours, your gut has done a lot of those contractions, so it's, it's in a very, you know, cleansed state. I mean, you, you talked about the gut, like, resetting every 24 hours. I don't know exactly what you mean by resetting, but we do know that, like, hormone hungers adjust accordingly when we are doing a pattern. We know that fasting is going to affect the gut microbiome and then going back to this motility thing. So when you first eat, even if it's just liquid and it's been 36 hours, it's very likely that your, that your, your, your body is going to have a stronger reflex. So it's just, you're just gonna feel that movement more intensely, and it might create that dumping effect where you've been... you haven't been eating for this long, so everything has probably moved to your colon by now. So there's more in the colon that can get triggered to move. So then once you eat and the peristalsis starts, you might have a lot of matter that can be dumped, so you might feel it more. Uh, 'cause that's another thing. I, I was talking about the migrating motor complex happening every 90 minutes or so. Also, when you eat, it stimulates peristalsis, so it stimulates intestinal movement all throughout your GI system. So that would make sense. If you haven't eaten for 36 hours, you're very cleansed on the top, but you might have a lot down bottom. So you eat something, you get some movement, and now you're feeling the need to dump things.
Melanie Avalon
Also, as a tangent, I remember this was mind-blowing when I learned this, 'cause people often think that, you know, if they're eating something and then they have GI distress, that it's what they just ate. It oftentimes can be something you ate at a prior meal. It's just that now that you're eating, that movement stimulates the movement throughout your entire system, and so now your large intestine, like, your lower colon is moving and you're reacting to something you ate not just now but, like, like, something you ate at a prior meal. So that's just, like, a little side note.
Also, so after 36 hours without fat, the gallbladder, it holds bile, which is responsible for breaking down fat. So if you haven't eaten in 36 hours, it's gonna be full probably of concentrated bile, and then, like, the second you have some dietary fat, it might release a larger amount than you're accustomed to and also into an emp- a potentially empty small intestine, and then bile is a natural laxative if it's in high concentrations. So all of this can create a sense of urgency. And then, yeah, hon- honestly, that- that's what I, I would think. I would think it's probably one of those things that I mentioned. And, and what you can do, so next time you're gonna have a 36-hour fast, I would try breaking the fast very gently. We talked last week about bone broth. That might be something nice to, like, open your fast with or some well-cooked, you know, low-fiber vegetables. Just, like, easing in, so hopefully you don't get too much of a-- especially, like, if you ha- if you were to have, like, a fat-heavy food first, you might trigger all of that bile. So just, like, going slowly and then going slowly with volume, making sure that you're hydrated.
In any case, in theory, if you do these 36-hour fasts regularly, your gut likely will adapt to it. But either way, either way, I wouldn't be super concerned, unless it becomes a regular thing where you're doing this all the time, you're experiencing it, it's an inconvenience. Then I might reevaluate things. But, yeah, I, I'm not surprised by it. Barry, what are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, Mel, y- you were so comprehensive with your answers. Uh, Maria, con- first of all, congrats on 36 hours. That's massive. That's so long and quite the leap, like, from 13 hours. And it's really good that you, like, approach it as an experiment, which is great just to see how you'd feel.
Uh, I think as for the express delivery situation, I think after breaking the fast, you're not alone, like, as Mel said. And, you know, when-- I know that when we fast for longer, it can change digestive activity, like our, our gut motility, our hormone signaling, bile, like Mel said, like bile as well, like a bile release. It's not that uncommon for the first meal to get things moving faster than expected. One thing I would like to focus on asking is what you broke your fast with as well, like, what specifically? I mean, sometimes a very large meal, lots, lots of fat or certain foods can definitely make that response more dramatic. And this also leads me to thinking, you know, when people do elimination diets, like, sometimes having a, a break, like an extended break from food and then eating certain foods can also highlight things that you might wanna pay attention to that don't actually make you feel that great. That's also something to pay attention to, which brings me back to the question of, what did you break your fast with when you did that 36 hours? And yeah, we absolutely do talk about gut health on the podcast, Maria, and one of the things I actually find that's quite common about fasting, and I know I've experienced that myself, is that you, you do notice digestive changes even before anything on the scale. Like, you just feel that, you know, there's better digestion, less bloating. You do have fewer cravings, and you're more-- you're way more aware of how food affects you and your stomach and your gut. So all those things Mel said, I, I completely agree, and just paying attention to, to that as well. And, and also, like, I wouldn't encourage you to do 36 hours too regularly. Like, it'd be interesting to see what your goal is for that, if it's just a one-off or a one-off experiment or something that you wanna do weekly or every other week. I'm curious to see why or, um, what your goal is there. But yeah, let us know if anything changes, if you sort of uncover whether it's something you ate that made you feel that way or maybe it's just the extended break or, yeah, curious. But thank you so much for your question, Maria. Hopefully, we helped in some way.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.Yes.Yeah, and I, I hadn't heard of that FLAG Advanced Reset.Have you heard of that before?
Barry Conrad
No, no, no, not at all, no.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, FLAG must be Fast Like a Girl. Okay. I'm so embarrassed.
So Fast Like a Girl, which is Dr. Mindy Pelz's book, so she has a fasting reset protocol. That's embarrassing. So anytime we said FLAG or F-L-A-G, it was Fast Like a Girl. So if people are interested in Dr. Mindy Pelz, I've actually had her on the Melonie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, so I will put a link to that in the show notes.
All righty. Shall we answer another question?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right, so we have a question from Gary, and the subject is Splendid Smoothies. And Gary says, "Hi. A little bit about me. I'm Gary from Scotland, just outside Edinburgh, and I've been following you since finding the podcast. IF has changed my life. Love, love, love it. I owe it all to you. I now have my wife, my cousin, and a few of my learners doing it. I'm a driving instructor. I do 24 clean fast. Eating window opens when I get home from work around 4:00 p.m. each day. I've lost 28 pounds so far and am feeling great.
My question is this: I have just bought a Nutribullet blender with the intention of buying fruit and veg to make a smoothie to break my fast. My feeling is that if the first thing you put into your body is full of nutrition, then you can't be doing all that bad. Planning on just having 500 milliliters as a starter whilst I prepare my main meal. Looking for any thoughts, advice, or even suggestions as to what to include in them. Thanks so much again. Please keep it up. It really is changing people's lives all over the planet."
Barry Conrad
Gary, first of all, thanks, thanks so much for your question. I honestly love this question, and I love stories like this. 28 pounds down, huge. Feeling good. Your missus is fasting. Your cousin is fasting. You've got some of your driving students fasting, killing it, and you basically become an IF ambassador for Scotland at this point, based on what you're saying. I also really-- I really like that you've stayed up to date on the show, and thanks so much for listening. So thanks for taking us along for the ride on your journey.
Onto your smoothie situation. So my first thought, Gary, is I comple- completely get the logic. I get what you mean. If you're gonna break a fast You do want good nutrients. You want to be putting something nutrient-dense into your body, and that sounds great, right? Fruit, veggies, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, all the good stuff. So on the surface, it does make sense. One thing I'd encourage you to think about is that, you know, sometimes, quote-unquote, "healthy" and optimal for breaking a fast, sometimes those two things aren't necessarily the same. So what I mean is, you know, one of the things we do know about blending fruits and veggies is it's really convenient, yeah. It also makes it really easy to consume really fast and really quickly. So again, good for convenience standpoint, but it can also mean that you're gonna get a pretty concentrated big hit of carbs and sugar without, you know, a huge amount of chewing or satiety, you know? So if your smoo- if your smoothie is mostly fruit, if y- if it's things like bananas, grapes, mangoes, whatnot, fruit juice, you might find yourself pretty hungry again really quick, you know? Because the nutrition is there, but the fullness sometimes isn't because of the speed that you're consuming it. Personally, Gary, if I, if I were making the smoothie for, to break a fast, I'd probably be thinking less about making, like, a massive food b- food bomb kind of thing and more about creating something balanced. So for example, I'd, I'd include a good amount of protein first or protein source first, 'cause protein is... And I, we talk about this so much, but it's one of the biggest factors when it comes to satiety and maintaining your muscle mass, especially if you've already lost a pretty decent amount of weight like you have, which is great. And then after the protein, I'd then add some veggies, and the spinach is easy because it practically disappears into a smoothie. A little bit of kale, not too much, is good as well if you enjoy it. Berries are great for antioxidants, like blueberries. That can provide really great flavor too, and without sending that sugar content all the way through the stratosphere. You could even add things like avo, like avocado. That gives, like, a nice creamy texture kind of thing, and I love avocado, and also is a great source of healthy fats there and will keep you more satisfied. What I'd personally avoid, Gary, is-- I keep wanting to say Gaz 'cause it's so Australian. What I'd personally avoid, Gary, is turning the smoothie into, like, a dessert, like a dessert disguised as health food, if you know what I mean.
Barry Conrad
Like, it's, it's really amazing, like, how quickly a smoothie can go from quote-unquote, "nutrient-dense" vibe to I've accidentally consumed like the equivalent of three meals worth of cal- calories kind of thing. And it's not all about calories, but it just is so easy to take it all in quickly.
And one thing I've learnt through fasting, Gary, is that chewing matters a lot more than we, we actually think it does. And something incredibly satisfying about, there's something awesome about just sitting down to a proper meal. The act of chewing, slowing down, tasting that food, all of that contributes towards fullness and satisfaction in ways that I think drinking the calories often doesn't. So if you're planning to have a smoothie, say while you're prepping your dinner, and then sit down to a proper meal, I think that's a very diff- different s- scenario than replacing your meal with a giant smoothie. Another thing I'd pay attention to is how you f- how do you feel afterwards? Like, one of my favorite things about IF is that it, it does teach me how to become my own feedback collector, my own data collector. Like, if, if you have the smoothie and you notice great energy, good digestion, you feel awesome, stable hunger, that's useful. That's good. If you find yourself hungrier, craving more food, you feel like it doesn't really satisfy you, that's also really useful information.
So I tend to land on nutrition with that as like, it, the body is, it's constantly giving us feedback, so just listen to that. What is it telling you? One thing I really loved from your email, especially your phrases like, "IF has changed my life," I totally agree, and I totally empathize and relate to that. And when you zoom out and take in everything you've actually achieved, Gary, like 28 pounds, improvements in how you feel, the people around you getting inspired by your example, I'd say whatever you're doing is working pretty, pretty darn well.
Like, my advice would be like, yeah, just keep experimenting with the smoothie. Make it nutrient-dense, prioritize that protein, add in some veggies, don't go too overboard with the fruit, and then pay attention to how your body responds after, and let us know. Again, this is a lifestyle, and you wanna feel energized, satisfied, and, and excited to keep going. So great job, Gary. Uh, Melanie, do you have any thoughts?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I, I love what you said so much, and I agree, Gary. You're awesome. I wanna be friends.
I'm so happy that you, that IF is helping you so much and that you're sharing it with all the people and all the things. And yes, smoothies. So I, I am not a big smoothie fan, generally speaking, for a lot of the reasons that Barry was mentioning. It would be one thing if we lived in the past and, you know, really needed more calories and, and m- just we nee- we needed more food. But now we are inundated with, like, easy-to-make food, and when you're doing a, a smoothie, especially if it's like fruit forward, you're just putting a lot of fruit and veggies. Think of, think about how long it would take to eat the equivalent of what we put into a smoothie. Like, if you, like, picture it. Like, picture a typical fruit and vegetable smoothie, what, what, what all goes into that and how you, like, how quick you can drink that versus what it would take to actually, like, chew it. Like, like Barry said, chewing is very important. I actually recently interviewed Dr. Jason Fung. So he was on this podcast. I will put a link to that episode. I would check out his book, "The Hunger Code." I will put a link to that in the show notes as well. And he has a whole section in his book on how liquid foods affect our hunger, and it's crazy. So basically, like you can eat the exact same amount of calories, but if it's in liquid form, like a smoothie, it drastically m- it, it basically does not make you as full and it makes you more hungry compared to when it's in the whole foods form. The ex- the exception which he g- which he gave, which is really interesting, is if you're gonna use fruit, using seeded fruits and blending it so it has the seeds in there. I think the ex- the specific example he gave was, so in particular raspberries, strawberries, and passion fruit. If you blend them with the seeds, the seeds are really high in polyphenols and those actually slow down. They're beneficial and they actually slow down nutrient absorption, so they kinda combat the problems that the smoothie is, is bringing in. They also inhibit pancreatic amylases, so that is ... We were talking earlier about lipase, which is an enzyme from the pancreas which breaks down lactose, which is the sugar in dairy. Amylase is another type of enzyme that comes from the pancreas and it breaks down starches. So it inhibits that, so it helps with not breaking down starches too quickly and having a high blood sugar spike. You can also like add to the smoothie. So I would like you could add things that would slow down the absorption of like the sugar in particular and the calories. So high fiber green veggies or chia seeds in particular can have a really incredible effect. So they actually, chia seeds will actually ... They won't affect the taste, but they'll, like they create a viscous layer and that actually blocks glucose absorption from the smoothie and it increases fullness or satiety. He also talks in the book about just like not only comparing liquid foods to non-liquid foods, but just the viscosity also affect, also affects your hunger.
Melanie Avalon
So like the more thick and viscous something is, the better it will be for regulating your hunger. In general though, I just think, I just think it's so interesting 'cause people are like, "Oh, like smoothies, get all the nutrients, all the things." But really it, it often is just like a big massive whack of sugar that you broke down and released from the fiber matrix, which was when food is in its whole foods form, the f- the fiber matrix makes it take longer for our bodies to digest and absorb that glucose. So again, getting it in the f- in the, um, smoothie form, not the best.
So I would, I would go with the lower sugar fruits, those seeded berries that I was mentioning. I would add a lot of leafy greens that are high fiber, so spinach, kale, cucumber, celery, and also add protein. You could add like a clean protein powder or you could add like Greek yogurt or kefir or even like cottage cheese.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm.
Melanie Avalon
So all of that is gonna help slow digestion, help with satiety.
I would actually ... So interestingly enough, I think I said, I think I'm saying the opposite of you, Barry. Did you say, did you say that you would not ... What did you say about a smoothie as like something to open the fast versus like as the full meal?
Barry Conrad
No. So like it, like it, it'd be different if you were having a smoothie, yeah, to, to open the fast versus rather than replace the full meal.
Do you know? Like if it's like a bit of a, a snack rather than like the whole meal, like, "Let me stock up with so much stuff." If you had, if you layered with protein then had a smoothie whilst cooking dinner that wasn't too jam-packed with a whole lot of sugar, something simple with fiber in there, that's different than trying to replace a meal or overstocking it with stuff. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, gotcha. So it wasn't like a comment either way.
It was, it was like, you know, it's different. If, if you're actually having the smoothie as a meal then, then there would be more, not license 'cause you don't need permission, but I would be more encouraging of having more in it basically because it's the actual meal. But I would still formulate it like the same way, like high pro- everything that I was saying, low sugar fruits, adding chia seed, adding protein powder, leafy greens.
Barry Conrad
Do you ever have smoothies ever?Like do you, do you enjoy the taste of them?Like do you, do you like smoothies?
Melanie Avalon
I don't remember the last time I had one. I, I, the reason I ... So I like the way they taste, yes.
The reason I don't like them, and it makes so much sense based on everything I just said from like what I learned in Dr. Jason Fung's book, I could eat, I could ... I would never feel f- if I were to just have smoothies, like even if it was the exact same amount of calories and even protein probably, I would never feel, I just wouldn't feel full. Like they're not very like f- filling to me, and I think it's because of everything I was saying about the liquid state, how they're broken down. Like I would much rather ... There's ... I would just, I just need, I just want like food, you know? Like that I have to chew, break down.
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So not to, not to rain on the parade for smoothies, but I, I think smoothies might be ... If this would be ... Oh my goodness.
Do you wanna do this as an episode, Barry? Let's do an, we should do an episode. We could even do this next, next week. We could talk about the top halo effect foods, like foods that people think are like, "Oh, this is so great," but it's like, "Really?" And it'd be like smoothies.
Barry Conrad
Okay.Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Wouldn't that be fun?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.I think that'd be really informative for people as well 'cause a lot of people-
Melanie Avalon
Underrated and overrated foods.
Barry Conrad
Yes, because one thing the media says versus the reality is they're not always the same in terms of like ... Or, or not even the media, just like what, what's broadcast to us in the grocery on the packaging of boxes or, or advertisements and stuff. It's not necessarily as healthy as you think.
Melanie Avalon
Over...Yeah.Do you wanna have overrated foods?And we can both, we'll both find like 10 and we'll see what we overlap on.
Barry Conrad
So I'll do overrated, okay?Top overrated ones.How many?
Melanie Avalon
Let's both do, let's, let's both find 10 overrated foods and like see if we...And we can go through our list and see if, if we have the same ones or not, like in, in real time.
Barry Conrad
Sounds good.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, this will be so fun.Let me make sure next week is not a guest.So tune in next week and we will, and hear our thoughts on the top overrated foods.
Barry Conrad
Great.
Melanie Avalon
All right.So sending you all the love in Scotland, Gary.Sorry if we rained on the smoothie parade.Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
I'm so excited to do that, Mel.Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
All right, friends. So the purpose of this portion of the show is the eating window is just as important as the fast when it comes to the health benefits and optimizing your body and your life and all the things.
So we like to have a virtual proverbial breaking of the fast moment where we profile a restaurant and talk about what we would order at said restaurant when we break our fast. So Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
Mel, today's restaurant is called St. John, and it's in London, UK, and I'm gonna flick you the link now. And this restaurant looks awesome. It's one of the most influential restaurants of the last 30 years.
It's open in a former smoker house near Smithfield Market by Chef Fergus Henderson. Fully à la carte menu, serving like u- unapologetically British dishes like roast bone marrow and Welsh rarebit. Great wine list, and the vibe is meant to be minimalist, understated. The food is the star. So... And a cool fact about this place is that Anthony Bourdain called Fergus Henderson a genius and credited St. John with changing how chefs think about ingredients. So I can't wait to get into this restaurant.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, wow.Okay.It is, it's a minimalist vibe h- like you just said.How do you, how do you feel about minimalist vibe restaurants?
Barry Conrad
Good. I mean, it depends on what-- it depends on how, like, you know, what the vibe is or how good the food is really. But I do like them.
W- like, it, it doesn't have to be fancy. Oh, not, not... Well, it has to be nice, but it doesn't have to be, like, over the top or, like, have, like, a gigantic menu. If it's clean and classy, I like that as well.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, is the, is the menu a minimalist menu as well as the...I guess we'll find out.
Barry Conrad
We'll find out.
Melanie Avalon
So which one do I...They have four restaurants.
Barry Conrad
So I'm gonna go to...So go to the Smithfield one.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, 'cause they have, for listeners, they have Smithfield, they have Bread and Wine, Marlbone, and Neil- Neil's Yard Wine Bar.Okay, so s- is Smithfield their flagship one?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, 'cause it's the St.John Street, then it's the St.John, and then go to the supper, 'cause they like to call dinner supper over there too sometimes.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I guess we have to use the word supper.What if they have wine and they have wine takeaway?Takeaway?Is it takeout wine?
Barry Conrad
That is really interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Takeaway wine list.Does that mean, is that the bottle list?Wait, is that...Maybe that's the bottle list.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that is the... No, not... Oh, yeah, it is. It is the bottle list.
Although during COVID, I remember that some bars were open, but people could stand outside and sort of take, take away, like stand outside and drink.
Melanie Avalon
Oh.
Barry Conrad
So as you can see, it's not, it doesn't have headings, but you can sort of see what's what. So there's very, there's different sections. I can kinda see what would be the entrees, what would be the sides, what would be the desserts. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yes.Okay, so, like, yeah.So, like, the very first section, there's like...Yeah, this definitely looks like a minimalist menu.There's like three things grouped together.
Barry Conrad
So those three things I would say is, like, the pre-appetizer, like little s- snacky k- like there's peas in the pod, for example. There's olives, and there's a globe artichoke. I don't think that's the, the appetizers. I think it's just, like, the pre-appetizer while you wait with, like, a drink or something.
And then do you want any of those, Mel? The olives, the peas in the pod?
Melanie Avalon
No.Do you?
Barry Conrad
I'd like to try the globe artichoke vinaigrette, whatever.That, I mean, that sounds interesting.
Melanie Avalon
It's probably a salad.
Barry Conrad
Yeah.I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind just trying that.And then-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, Barry's getting a salad.This might be, this might be the first, one of the first times that you got a salad.
Barry Conrad
Actually, yeah.I'm ac- that's actually true.And then let's go to the next section, which is looks like the appetizer section.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.Okay.So let me-
Barry Conrad
Oh, I see something that might catch your eye there, but you might be concerned about the mercury.
Melanie Avalon
Oh. Oh, yes. They have, they have smoked mackerel, which we just learned. Oh, this is, no, this is so great because in order to, like, really learn something, repeating it later and trying to remember what you said is a great way to memorize it.
So mackerel, it was horse mackerel that I want, right? So if it's, if it's smoked horse mackerel, I would get, I would get that. What about... They have snails, which I've not had. I forgot, you, you like escargot or no?
Barry Conrad
I do like it.I really did every time I've had it, which is maybe less than-
Melanie Avalon
What does it taste like?
Barry Conrad
It's not too dissimilar to the texture of oysters.
Melanie Avalon
That's okay, as long as it, as long as it doesn't taste like them.
Barry Conrad
It's, it's honestly, it was delicious every time I've had it, and I've had it, like, maybe about five times.
Melanie Avalon
I don't think I would like it actually.
Barry Conrad
You don't think so?
Melanie Avalon
I don't know if I would like it because I would want it completely plain. It might not... I think that would just be kinda gross feeling a little bit.
I, I have no idea what it tastes like. I have no idea.
Barry Conrad
It's really good, Mel.Seriously, it's wo- it's worth a little morsel to try.
Melanie Avalon
Have you had it plain though?Have you had it, like, like steamed snails?
Barry Conrad
No.And that doesn't sound very good.
Melanie Avalon
That's how I would get it, so.
Barry Conrad
I have not had steamed snails.Can confirm I have not.Anything else jumping out of, at you from that section or just you might try there?
Melanie Avalon
I w- I was going on a tangent in my head thinking about how I feel like I don't-- I feel like there are less slugs outside now, but I, it might just be because I don't go outside. Like, it, it, you, like, growing up when it was, when after it would rain, there'd be, like, slugs everywhere. Do they, are they still there though? I don't know.
I don't see them ever. It's been raining. I haven't seen any slugs.
Barry Conrad
Do you go outside a lot?
Melanie Avalon
Enough to see if there are slugs out. Eh, not sure.
I don't know. I feel like there might be a dwindling, like, pest population and, like, slug population because of the environment is my point, like all the pesticides and stuff.
Barry Conrad
That's really funny.
Melanie Avalon
But yes, so I think I'll get, yeah, just the Just the mackerel pending if it is horse, I think horse mackerel.Yeah.What would you get?
Barry Conrad
I would actually get... This is, this is a very British menu. I would definitely have the mussels, crème fraîche, and tarragon. I would definitely have the snails, butterhead, and celery 'cause I'm guessing these aren't massive, and I just have a thing about chicken liver. I just love chicken liver pate of any kind. I think especially after going to Lilia, the one that I told you about in Melbourne. It was just so good, Mel, so I, we're gonna get that as well.
Melanie Avalon
Okay.I will maybe like, maybe taste the snails, depending on how they're cooked.
Barry Conrad
What about the, as you like to say, the entrees?
Melanie Avalon
I'm confused by the... 'Cause this is clear- clearly the entrees, but then there's like, then there's a section that, is that like add-ons maybe? Or the si- Oh, that's the sides. I feel like I'm learning a new language.
But like you, you can have Welsh... What is Welsh rarebit?
Barry Conrad
So Welsh rarebit is, it's like a, it's sort of like melted cheese sauce served over almost like a toast.It's very British.It doesn't sound very exciting, but it's actually-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, no, it sounds delicious.Cheese and toast?It, it sounds...And I just looked up pictures.It looks like cheese toast that my mom used to make growing up.
Barry Conrad
So I, I can imagine like they'd probably do it really like amazingly at this restaurant.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's probably the place to get it. I will not be getting it, but I can recommend it.
Okay, so from the entrees, and Barry, you can use whatever language you would like to use, I... Oh, interesting. They have skate. Isn't skate like stingray?
Barry Conrad
I think so, actually.
Melanie Avalon
I've never had skate.Let us look up the mercury levels of skate.
Barry Conrad
I've actually never seen skate, as far as I can remember, on a menu that we've done.
Melanie Avalon
I don't think so. Let's see. Mercury generally, and skate generally below .4 PPM. A single sample low. Okay. Basically, we think it's low, but it's not super well-studied.
Whenever I think of skate, I think of, we had this computer game growing up. Did you ever play like Oregon Trail?
Barry Conrad
I don't think so.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness.This is, we needed to have been in the same decade.This is like a classic.But they, they had a spin-off called Amazon Trail, and you would go like-
Barry Conrad
Oh, I know that.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?You know Amazon Trail?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I know, I know of Amazon Trail.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay.
Well, yeah, you're like in this canoe thing, and you're like on the Amazon, and you, one of the things you have to do is you have to hunt fish with like a, with a spear fishing thing, and then you have to identify what you caught, and skate was always there.
Barry Conrad
Well, maybe it's a sign.Skate is meant to...Maybe you should try it, seeing as it may be low in mercury.
Melanie Avalon
Although, friends, I'm, I'm briefly googling skate in the Amazon rainforest, and it's not coming up, but I'm, I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure that this is a story that's accurate. Um, okay. So yeah, maybe it is the time to try it.
So it's skate with bread and samphire. I would get all that on the side. Oh, I see something that Barry will not be getting. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. They have... I would like the pigeon, please, with turnips and anchovy on the side. Do you want some pigeon, Barry?
Barry Conrad
No.I don't know if that's for me.It's not for...Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Barry can't do any poultry that's not chicken.
Barry Conrad
No, I, I love duck so much, and also Mel, I m- I made duck, I made duck confit fettuccine.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?Duck fettuccine.How was that?
Barry Conrad
It was delicious 'cause I t- I pulled the skin off the, the duck and fried that separately so I could add that as like a little crispy topping on the actual ragu-esque duck and duck confit mixed in with the pasta. It was really good.
It was really, really good.
Melanie Avalon
That sounds really, really amazing.
Barry Conrad
Anyway, back.Yeah, it was really good.But yes, no to pigeon.
Melanie Avalon
Also, I changed my mind.
Barry Conrad
What?
Melanie Avalon
I'm, I might actually get the, I don't know how you say it, h- hake? I l- so that's a type of fish, and apparently it's, quote, "very low mercury." So, but I do wanna try the skate because...Also I'm intrigued by the ox heart.What do you want?
Barry Conrad
This, honestly, I will say, like this is a minimalist menu, but it has, in terms of one for one, like actually quite a few different sort of main dishes, entree dishes that we've seen, right?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm.
Barry Conrad
I wanna... 'Cause I've had lots of roast lamb before, I don't wanna do what I've had before. So let me go with... Ox heart sounds interesting.
Ox heart, beetroot, and horseradish sounds really cool, and then the hake and chips is like fish and chips essentially, but I, it just sounds delicious. I would have those two.
Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to find a picture of the skate online because I don't even know what it looks like. Like is it like a meaty... Okay. Oh, okay, yeah. I de- okay. I definitely do wanna try the skate. It looks intriguing.
Barry Conrad
And then I'd also get, will you get any sides with your situation?
Melanie Avalon
No.Are you gonna get that Welsh rarebit?
Barry Conrad
I'll get the Welsh rarebit, and because I love mata- potatoes so much, I'll get some Jersey Royals as well.
Melanie Avalon
What are Jersey Royals?
Barry Conrad
They're potatoes.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, sorry, you just said that.Sorry.Okay.Jersey Royals, okay.I don't, this langua- sorry, this menu is like in a different language.Like I can't, I don't know what 10% of it is.
Barry Conrad
It's kinda cool though 'cause it's English, but it's, we don't understand what they mean, which is interesting. Which is, yeah, 'cause it's British.
It's also different to Australia, so it's very cool. It's like we're in Harry Potter or something. I don't know.
Melanie Avalon
How do you feel about, so now that we know it is a minimalist like vibe of the menu, how do you, like do you feel like it's, I don't like either or questions, but, and, um, like is it pretentious to have a menu where you don't put any explanations and, or is it like cool? Like what is the purpose, and how do you feel about it?
Barry Conrad
Well, the, to be fair, like I kinda looked at it and straight away I knew what was what section. Like I like my brain kind of went, "Okay, that's obviously that, that, that, that, that." It wouldn't, it wouldn't hurt to have the titles above it, but I can kinda figure that's what it is.
'Cause you could look at the price. You could look at what it is. What do you think? Do you prefer like- Having it more clear like this is the pre-s- pre-appetizer, this is the appetizer, this is the... How do you feel?
Melanie Avalon
I like vibes, so I applaud them. The only reason I didn't get it immediately was I didn't know what Jersey Royals were and I didn't know what Welsh rarebit was, so it wasn't intuitive to me that that was the side section.
But yes, I'm all for vibes. Like, I'm all about it.
Barry Conrad
There's also the dessert section.Oh, and that's also, like, almost as big as the-
Melanie Avalon
I know, right?I know.It's like 25 per- actually, it's literally like 30% of the menu.
Barry Conrad
Looks really good.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, can I guess what you want?
Barry Conrad
There's two things I would...There's actually several things I'd get, but...Oh man, yeah, several things.
Melanie Avalon
You are definitely getting the twice baked chocolate cake.
Barry Conrad
Yep.Ding, ding.Got it.
Melanie Avalon
I would have, like, bet my life on that.Okay.Second-
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, there's so many.It looks all good.Oh my gosh.
Melanie Avalon
I don't know how you feel about raspberries.
Barry Conrad
I actually love raspberries.
Melanie Avalon
How do you feel about pavlova?
Barry Conrad
Pavlova?
Melanie Avalon
Whatever.It's like baklava.I thought it was bak- I was thinking baklava.Pavlova.It could be pronounced that way, the way it's spelled, pavlova.What is it?Povo- povo- po- pavlova?What is that?
Barry Conrad
It's kinda... I, I've made it before. I'll have to send you a photo.
It's, it's a very Aussie and Kiwi thing. It's like basically a lot of, um, whipped egg whites. It's sort of like a m- a giant meringue sort of cake. It's delicious. It's very light, and then you have, like-
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I've just looked it up.Oh, it looks so pretty.Iconic meringue-based dessert.Named, oh, named after the Russian ballerina.Okay.
Barry Conrad
It's very, it's very Kiwi.
Melanie Avalon
Do you want the apple and blackberry cobbler?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
Do you like how I intuitively just, like, zoned in on that, even after your endorsement of the pavlova?
Barry Conrad
I'm just, I just, I, I do really love dessert a lot.I love food, though.
Melanie Avalon
I would, if I were to get something, which I would not, rice pudding.
Barry Conrad
Rice pudding?Oh, yeah, that looks, that looks-
Melanie Avalon
I've had, like, a childhood fascination obsession with, like, the texture of things like rice pudding, cottage cheese, something about that, like, white cold situation happening. I, I just, like, always loved it. I don't know why.
Barry Conrad
Sounds amazing, and also Mel, check your text real quick.That's, that's what it looks like.I made that.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, let me check.Is this the duck?Wait.Oh, the, the p- the pav- pavlova.
Barry Conrad
The pavlova.Pavlova.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, wow.Oh my goodness, it looks so beautiful.Barry made something that's like, it's very, like, you could put this in a cookbook.
Barry Conrad
You kinda don't wanna eat it.When you see any pavlova, you kind of just wanna look at it, but it's actually quite, quite moreish.Anyway, would you get anything as a repeat from the earlier-
Melanie Avalon
Well, also really quickly, I love that the last thing... Oh, wait. Yes, the last thing on the dessert menu is just cheese. That's all it says, cheese.
Um, and they also have, like, madeleines by the half dozen or the one dozen. I would probably get a... So if it turned out that the mackerel was low mercury, I feel like smoked mackerel would make a nice dessert situation. Otherwise, yeah, it might be like I have to order another entrée. I mean, we just have to see.
Barry Conrad
Okay.Anything from the wine list?
Melanie Avalon
Maybe I get the pigeon for dessert.That's a good idea.I'll get the pigeon for dessert and not for my entrée, and then you can have some as well.
Barry Conrad
Oh, I don't know.
Melanie Avalon
Okay.The wine list?
Barry Conrad
It's quite a nice wine.I mean, maybe that's not very minimalist.It's quite, quite a lot of wine there.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, it is. It's much larger, and interestingly enough to that point, okay, that's, that's a whole, like, esoteric side conversation.
If they were truly trying to do the minimalist vibe, the wine list would not look like this because it has, like, the varietal, the name, the year, the ven- sorry, the vintage, the winery. But if it was really minimalist, they'd be like French Chenin Blanc, Italian Sangiovese, you know? But I guess, like, if you're a wine lover, you cannot... Wine lovers were not made for a minima- minimalism.
Barry Conrad
No.I think people need to know exactly what they-
Melanie Avalon
What they're ordering.Yes.So I see...Do you see anything from that or the actual, like, cocktails?
Barry Conrad
I haven't seen the cocktails.Let me go to the cocktails real quick.Let's go to the bar section.I don't think there's...Is there cocktails on the wine?No, there, I don't think there-
Melanie Avalon
Thought I saw one.Hold on.Mm, maybe not.
Barry Conrad
I'll have some wine.I mean, it's, it doesn't seem like a cocktail type of vibe of restaurant.It's more very traditional, which I like.Actually, some Chablis.I love Chablis.I'll have some Chablis.
Melanie Avalon
I'm not sure. All I know is it's a very promising menu. It looks like a lot of French wine, so I could definitely find something easily. I feel confident. I can look at a wine list, like, in a second and know if it has potential or not.
Barry Conrad
The vibe.
Melanie Avalon
Yep. So awesome. Awesome, awesome. Okie dokie. Well, friends, listeners, we hope you had the best time with us today.
If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com/episode486. There will be links to, there will, there will be links there to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifpodcast. I am MelanieAvlon. Barry is Barry_Conrad. And also, Barry, I'm really excited for next week's episode, where we're going to do the most overrated foods.
Barry Conrad
I'm so excited.I actually can't wait.
Melanie Avalon
I know.I am too.Awesome.Well, anything from you before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you once again, everyone, for tuning in.We appreciate you so much, and we'll catch you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week.Bye.
Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes.
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