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Welcome to Episode 461 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 461 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine. If it's that time, then get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Barry Conrad
Hi friends, welcome back to the show. We have a very special episode today for you guys that I have just been looking forward to for so long. So the backstory on today's conversation, a while ago now, I don't remember when I first saw the term Urolithin A to start off with terminology, but I definitely saw it in a book about health and what I was learning about it, and this was a few years ago, was that it was a super important compound for our health and yet it's created by our gut bacteria. And then the tricky thing about it is that not everybody has the gut bacteria to actually produce it. So you can eat certain foods to create this compound, which has again, so many benefits that we're gonna talk about and yet you might not actually be producing it.

So I was like, well, that's a conundrum. So fast forward a little bit from there. I was super excited when I found a brand or they found me, I'm not even sure how it first happened, but I connected with a brand called Timeline and I was really excited because they made a Urolithin A supplement and friends, so I will tell you, we get like pitches and emails from supplement companies all the time and I am very hesitant and wary about new supplement brands just because there's so much out there, but I was so intrigued by Timeline because it was this Urolithin A compound that I've been hearing about. The ingredients were super clean, super pure and it had all these incredible endorsements from so many different people in our field that you guys are familiar with. So I was like, okay, I've gotta try this. I will say, and again, we're gonna talk about the benefits, but I have, and it's hard to say definitively because I know there are a lot of factors of things that people do, but I am fairly certain that this supplement has had a radical effect on my energy levels. In particular, when I think about myself pre-taking Timeline every day, I was sneaking in like a nap every day and I don't do that anymore. Like I very rarely take naps and I really do think it's the Timeline which features the patented ingredient, Midopera, which we will talk about. But in any case, I even went through a period where I ran out for a bit and I had like a panic attack moment and I realized some of my fatigue was coming back. So I absolutely adore this supplement.

I've met them like the company a few times at different conferences and they also make a skincare line which is absolutely incredible. And I will say whenever I talk with anybody about Timeline, like when it comes up in conversations, the response from fellow biohackers and all the people is just overwhelmingly excited and supportive about it as well. So all of that to say, I simply was dying to have the company on the show to learn more about the science that goes into this product. And so we're here today with Jennifer Scheinman. She is a registered dietitian nutritionist with over 20 years of experience in nutrition and wellness.

Barry Conrad
She has a master's degree in integrative and functional nutrition and advanced training from the Institute of Functional Medicine. And she is the senior manager of nutrition affairs at Timeline.

She is here to talk all about this mito pure ingredient, what this product actually does. I have so many questions. So Jennifer, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 3
Yeah, thank you for having me. And gosh, wow, what an incredible introduction to Mitopure and your Ellifene. And I'm so excited to unpack all of that with you. You're not alone in, first of all, being sort of hearing about this as like the new kid on the block supplement. I think it's gotten, especially in the biohacking world, a lot more attention lately. But a lot of people have not heard about this. So nobody should feel badly if they haven't heard about it yet.

That's what we're here for. And your energy, I'm so happy to hear that. And we hear that really often as well. So excited to take the conversation and see where it goes.

Barry Conrad
I am super impressed by all of the preclinical studies, the clinical studies that are completed and then the ongoing clinical studies that Timeline is doing. And so to clarify really quickly for terminology so that even I use it correctly.

So Timeline is the company, Midopure is the name of like the urolithin A supplement.

Speaker 3
You got it. So our overall brand is, is timeline. And then all of our different products have mito pure specifically in there. And that is our clinically validated ultra pure form of your

Barry Conrad
Okay. Awesome.

Well, I will say it's so interesting because like I was saying, I really, really noticed the difference with the energy. And primarily it's in the marker of I know I was taking naps daily before timeline and might appear and like, no, I'm not. I remember I was like, there must be, because I noticed that benefit. And I was like, Oh, I'm sure there's like tons of studies on your lithium-A and fatigue and naps and sleep. And, oh, because the majority of the literature on this supplement, like you guys have conducted, which is amazing. But the focus is, is more on, from what I reviewed, because I was going through all the different studies on there. It is, there's stuff about energy and fatigue, but it's more about like this mitophagy and this mitochondria and muscle support. So I'm really, really excited to talk all about that before we go into that. So I was actually your background, like, when did you first start taking Midopure and how did you meet the company and what has been your journey?

Speaker 3
Yeah, so I have been a career dietitian. I've spent, gosh, almost 30, 27 probably years in the wellness industry from working in various different spaces. And probably about 10 to 15 years ago, I got really interested in this integrative and functional world of nutrition, moving away from the standard calories in, calories out mentality that I was taught at school. And I was also going through my own health journey at that point as well.

That's where, as I said, I went and got my master's in integrative and functional medicine and nutrition and just really diving into the sort of food as medicine type of concept and getting really interested in supplements and just how we can step up everything that we're doing for our health. And I found Timeline, actually. I did have my own private practice at that time. And I balanced it where I was also working with brands and helping to create education for consumers or other health care practitioners or just really translate all the science that they're doing into messaging that an everyday consumer can understand. And I was working with Timeline. And as I was reading their studies, I was just blown away because like you had alluded to earlier, you don't see incredible research like this very often in a supplement company. There's so many supplements out there. We can talk a little bit about that later around how to help people just identify a good supplement to take. The research was just so incredible that A, a supplement company had this quality of research, but it was a molecule to your point, like I had never heard of either. And has what I believe is such an amazing potential to impact so many different things around not only how we feel today, but just how we age. So when the opportunity came to work with them full time, I was ready to roll up my sleeves and dive in and just really passionate about educating people on what your LIF&A or Mydopure can do.

Barry Conrad
Like I said last night, I was going through a lot of the different studies and I was just blown away, especially the, I don't know if it's like the keystone one, but it's one that's referenced a lot in the, like the literature that you put out there, more forward facing to the audience about the 12% increase in, in muscle strength, because I know they tested like power, strength, a lot of different things. And there was varying levels for the strength.

And this was in a human trial with, with like, with like a lot of people, like, like these studies, they actually, you know, it's not like they're testing like six people to backtrack a little bit. One of the things I found most alluring when I was reading the potential benefits of your lithium A, and this might appear supplement was, they found, they had found in a human study that it led to, like I just said, a 12% increase in muscle strength with no change in diet or lifestyle, like, just by taking the supplement, which is wild, because they say, you can't, you know, take a supplement to build muscle or take a supplement to like lose weight or anything like that.

And I'm not saying it made them lose weight. But so how is that actually happening?

Like, what is happening to make the muscle stronger?

Speaker 3
Let's backtrack a little bit and talk about how mitopure works, because that will really help understand how we're improving muscle strength, but also circle back to why you're feeling so much more energy, because that's really kind of the missing link on how it works. And actually, I'm going to take even a further step back, if that's okay, and just talk about where this molecule comes from in nature, like where someone might find it. It is a natural molecule, and you sort of said this in the introduction, that our gut actually makes it for us. So what that means is you're not going to find your eryllithin A directly in a food source. What is going to happen is that your gut microbiome is going to take certain elements in the food that we eat, that we don't digest ourselves, and it will metabolize those elements. And so fiber is an example, not so much for your eryllithin A, but fiber is an example of what we call a prebiotic, something that feeds and fuels our gut microbiome. So, in the case of your eryllithin A, it is these polyphenols that are found not in a lot of foods, so in foods like pomegranates, berries, and some nuts, and that's about it. So not foods that we are eating on a regular basis, or eating, I mean, we should be, but most of the U.S., unfortunately, is not eating those foods regularly, and not even in the quantities that they should be eating it. So our gut takes those microbes, our gut takes those polyphenols and converts it into your eryllithin A. So we then get that benefit.

I almost think of it as, it's called a postbiotic, and I think of it as like, we give our gut microbes room and board, right? They get to live and reside inside our gut, they then get to consume and metabolize things we can't, and then the way that they pay us for that room and board are these postbiotics, these things that help benefit the human, you know, help benefit humans. And so other examples of postbiotics are some B vitamins and vitamin K. So these aren't like weird, crazy things, they're things that our body has definitely been sort of evolved, and now unfortunately, de-evolved to have because most of us are not eating healthy diets and don't have a good healthy gut microbiome. And another thing that you had mentioned is most of us don't have the right gut microbiome to make this, which is really unfortunate with so many of us not having very healthy guts, not diverse, different quality of microbes in our gut, even if you are eating a lot of these foods and vegetables or these pomegranates and nuts, you're just probably not making any urolithin A to get a benefit at all. So this is one of those rare places where when I'm thinking as a nutritionist on where are the changes that we want to do in diet and lifestyle, like that always has to come first. But the point of a supplement is to fill gaps where diet is probably not enough. And I think this is one of those really clear places where it's going to be a real challenge for most people to get enough urolithin A from their diet alone.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so actually I have some questions while just while we're talking about that like the here were the OG form of urolithin A that we would be getting from our gut bacteria, because I'm actually working on a project with another fellow podcast guest right now we might be co authoring a book and it's all on short-term fatty acid production from the gut microbiome, but it's so basically the focus of it is is talking about postbiotics and metabolites of the gut microbiome and how how they service signaling molecules to the body which makes sense like basically they're creating these these signals to the body the body then reads as the state that the body is in like is it in a state of homeostasis is it in a state of stress like what what is happening but I'm really curious because I was reading the study last night where they were comparing taking mito pure to drinking pomegranate juice and in the study well first of all they they went and qualified whether or not people were naturally producers of urolithin A and like we were saying not everybody is so they realized some people didn't produce it at all some some people didn't have like baseline didn't have any in their system some did some only like a few had higher amount and then when they gave them like pomegranate juice for example which is that precursor then some people still didn't create it some people made like a little bit and then you know some made a lot but when they compared it to mito pure mito pure led to like a much more higher level of urolithin A in the participants and presumably all the participants compared to you know the producers who had to produce it on their own from the pomegranate juice but what I'm curious about is they were saying that like the natural the people were producing it naturally the curve was that there was like you know a smaller amount after like I think like four or six hours and then after 24 hours there was more compared to taking mito pure there was actually a bolus right in the beginning and then it would go down after 24 hours but then but it was still way more in their system than compared to creating it normally from the pomegranate juice but so my question is do we know how much like physiologically with what it's doing urolithin A in our body do we know how much we actually need to experience the benefits because I know you're about to go into you know what it actually does with our mitochondria and stuff so like is more even better or is it just that if you get that signal at all that's what works and is it possible that you could have like too much like could you oversaturate your system

Speaker 3
So what we know, you know, so there hasn't really been like a defined sort of like threshold of like, this is how much your olefinae should be in your bloodstream at all times, right? Like if you went to your doctor and asked them to test your olefinae in your blood, I mean, they don't really necessarily have the tools to do that, but they wouldn't necessarily know either how much to be looking for.

But what we do know is that when you, you would have to drink six cups of pomegranate juice to get the same amount of your olefinae in your blood that that single bolus that you alluded to from taking a 500 milligram supplement would be. So in my opinion is a very inefficient and probably not healthy way to get enough your olefinae to have these strength benefits that we talked about. So the strength benefits happen at 500 milligrams. So anything less than that, I cannot say with any certainty that like, oh, if you only have like a little bit of your olefinae, you're still going to get strength benefits. I just couldn't say that because we don't know what that like a minimum threshold is to be doing any sort of benefit. But if you wanted to get the same sort of threshold of 500 milligrams, six cups of pomegranate juice a day, I would not recommend that to anybody.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And, and to that point, because people might think we don't know what happens at lower amounts, but, and just like, for example, on the study, which I was referencing already where there's the 12% increase in muscle strength, a lot of the benefits they saw, cause they, they compared like 500 milligrams to 1000 and they tested so many different things, but a lot of the benefits seem to occur, I think at the 1000 mark.

So it does seem like you need more in the system to potentially get these benefits. Is that accurate?

Speaker 3
Yeah. So we have tested dosing at 250 milligrams, at 500 milligrams, 1,000 milligrams, and 2,000 milligrams. And so at 250 milligrams, we have not seen really like the same benefits that we see at 500 that changes were not statistically significant. So that never made it to market, right? That just didn't seem like you're going to get any benefit from that.

We see, again, these wonderful strength improvements at 500. And we see we haven't really dived into how it's working. We'll get to there. But it's working on the mitochondria. And so we see at 500 milligrams that it is working on the mitochondria. We see extended benefits at 1,000 milligrams. And then the benefits seem to plateau. So can you get too much? At 2,000, it is still safe. But it doesn't seem like there's any added benefit to going above 1,000 milligrams. So at a certain point, it just becomes like, why? You're just spending money on something. You're sort of saturated at that point. 1,000 milligram seems to be really a great place to stay.

Barry Conrad
What about, no pun intended, the timeline, what is the role of the amount of time it takes to start a single benefit?

Speaker 3
So it depends on what benefits that you're looking for and how much you're taking. So what we see at the one month mark. So our first clinical trial that we did actually was looking at not only sort of like how much urolithin A is in our system, those sort of 250, 500, 1000 and 2000 milligram dosing, but just also what is happening biologically in our body. And we did that with muscle biopsies. And what we see at the one month mark is there is a significant improvement both at 500 and 1000 milligrams in all of these markers of mitochondrial function, including this mitochondrial recycling process, which is so key for us, you know, to that's an ability that starts to decline as we get older, we can dive into what that really means. Inflammatory markers, lots of benefits started happening at that one month mark.

Now the strength study that you keep talking to that was four months, you're not going to see strength improve without exercise overnight. So it's not surprising that we saw those improvements happen after four months. And then from what our customers say, and just what people I know who are taking might appear, it can kind of be across the board, like that energy that you're feeling sometimes, that's maybe around six weeks. It's not going to be an overnight success. I think that's something that people have to really walk away from, especially I like to say in our like Amazon Prime world, we're expecting to feel something tomorrow. That's not this, this is not an energizer like caffeine, or even like a B12 injection that you're going to feel immediately, because it's happening on the cellular level, our mitochondria have to change, they have to be recycled, they have to start then putting out enough energy for you to really feel so, you know, six weeks at a bare minimum, but I think four months is a safe amount of time to really give it to start noticing what you're feeling.

Barry Conrad
It's interesting. I actually, because I asked listeners for questions about, for this, and, um, one listener actually shared her experience with her effects on her, on her muscle. It was from Teresa. She said, I've been taking it about a year and a half. I noticed more energy, less brain fog, but I'm never really sure which supplement or combo is providing the benefits since I take so many.

That's, I understand that I've heard might appear can help with muscle growth. I've been training hard for six plus months and have not seen visible changes to my muscles, but I am gaining strength. I have doubled the weights and all lifts from where I started, but my measurements or my definition has changed. And then she has actually a question, but commenting on that. So that actually aligns with the study a bit. Cause absolutely. Yeah. That's what the study found too. Right.

Speaker 3
Yeah, so our study was not really set up to measure muscle mass. I do believe that they looked at that, again, in four months without exercise. I wouldn't really expect muscle mass to change anyways.

So there are different components of muscle health, not just the size, but to Teresa's point, like how strong you are. And that's equally as important for our muscle health as we get older. So that is truly the metric that we see, is this improvement in muscle strength. So are you able to lift more? I believe that long-term, that is going to benefit, or is going to translate to more muscle mass. If you are doing DEXA scans every year, I would only have to imagine that if you're stronger and you can lift more, you're going to put on muscle mass. We just don't have the data to back that up yet. But it sounds like what Teresa's experiencing is this sort of improvement in energy. I hear very often, too, improvements in brain fog and memory, and that's not surprising because your brain is saturated with mitochondria, producing energy 24-7 for your brain to think and do all of the functions it needs to do. So that's not surprising at all, that that's been her experience.

Barry Conrad
her question leads into, I think, what we're going to talk about with the mitochondria. It does make sense to me, because I hadn't really thought about it before, but now that I think about it right now, it makes sense that if this supplement is helping our mitochondria function better, then strength would be the thing you would expect to improve.

Because it's not like it's actually giving you protein and calories and building muscle. If you're stronger, like you said, you're more likely to do that. So then I think you as a byproduct might grow in mass, but it's the function that it's really addressing, which would be the strength. So to that point, her question was she says, what sets mitopure apart from other supplements like NMN, glutathione, spermidine, aren't they all for cellular health? So what is it actually doing?

Speaker 3
Yeah, that's a fantastic question. Here's how I like to think about it. I mean, your cells have multiple components of them, right? We think about the lipid membrane that surrounds the cell. There's the organelles that are inside the cells. There are co-factors for energy metabolism. There's a lot of things that impact cellular health.

So I'm going to just click in a little bit further into specifically the mitochondria because that's the area that we're talking about. And to just level set, it sounds like your audience is pretty on top of all of this, but the mitochondria are sort of fondly known as the powerhouse of the cell. So our little cellular energy packs are little energy factories. Side note, they do so much more for our cells in our body than just produce energy. They are the first place where steroid hormones are metabolized. They play a role in cell communication. I mean, they do so many things. So besides energy, they're like the CEO of our cell almost. They just play such a critical role.

But like all factories out there, if we just think of it in simple terms as the energy factory for a moment, no matter how well you take care of your factory, meaning that we supplied all the co-factors that it needs, that factory is just going to break down with wear and tear. And what's really unique to Midopure is it works on the mitochondria in two different ways. It helps to break down and recycle those mitochondria. And that's a mechanism that's unique to your lithium-A. And then it helps to build new mitochondria, which is where something like an NAD precursor like NMN or NR, or if you're doing like an IVNID, that's where that's going to work. When we think about cellular energy and you want more of it, you could build more factories. You could make that factory work better. But at the end of the day, you're going to have a lot of broken down factories and you need to remove them because there's only so much real estate.

And those damaged mitochondria, those damaged factories actually send out further damaging signals. So you want to move them out and then build new ones. So that's where your lithium-A comes in. And I think there's potentially a great case where some of these other supplements for mitochondrial health or cellular health can be stacked on top of that. But to me, it makes sense, you got to clean out the junk drawer first. You've got to remove the damaged dysfunctional mitochondria and then build new ones and then make sure those mitochondria are protected and have all of the different things that they need to work properly. Does that kind of make sense?

Barry Conrad
Yes, and so we talk on this show all the time, like all the time about the word autophagy. So when you're talking about breaking down recycling these mitochondria, is that the word mitophagy and is that basically autophagy in the mitochondria?

Speaker 3
Exactly. So it's just a very targeted form of autophagy.

So autophagy is sort of a general term that's happening sort of cellular wide, and then mitophagy is just specific to the mitochondria. So it's just, you know, instead of demolishing the whole house to fix the kitchen, it's just fixing the kitchen.

Barry Conrad
Awesome. So listeners will be very familiar with Autophagy because the reason we talk about it on the Interments in Fasting podcast here all the time is because we talk about how it's stimulated by fasting.

So actually to that point, have they done any, well, when you're taking might appear or does it matter if you take it in the fasted or fed state and have they done any studies on like if fasting catalyzes anything?

Speaker 3
Yeah, so it does not matter whether you take it fasted or in a fed state, we've studied it in both ways. And we see great bioavailability both ways.

We have what we talk about products, we can we can dive into this too. But if somebody is fasting, certain products might be more appropriate for them than others so that they don't break the fast. So right like the soft gels, you would probably want to take our gummies would break the fast. But you can take it with or without food, you can take it also really any time of the day, you want to be somewhat consistent in how you're taking it because it has about a 24 hour half life, it peaks at about six to eight hours. So you want to try and take it around the same time every day. But you can take it at night, you can take it during the day. We don't have any studies right now that are specifically looking at like an extended benefit while you're fasting. I think that's just a really interesting thing to think through.

Barry Conrad
Awesome. Yeah. So the way I take it, I take the pill.

Speaker 3
Pills off gels, yeah, the two little red, two little red pills, yeah.

Barry Conrad
with my one meal a day dinner at night. You guys sent me the gummies as well. And it's funny cause I don't really just eat food. Like I don't really ever, I don't have like any sort of gummies and these are sugar free and they don't have any problematic ingredients in them or anything like that.

But I had them and I was like, oh my goodness, these are like candy. It was literally, cause I haven't had anything like that in like years. And I was like, oh, this is dangerous for me. I can't, I'm just going to eat the whole bottle right now. So.

Speaker 3
Yeah, I've been told we should go into the candy business. I've had people ask, is it bad to take eight of these a day?

They are really tasty. I personally use them. I do tend to have a little bit of a sweet tooth, so they are sometimes my little after dinner treat, just because I'm like, oh, I want something a little sweet.

Barry Conrad
You're wildly good. So if you're the type of person who can have like a healthy relationship with wildly good gummies and not eat the whole bottle at once, get the gummies.

But if you're like me, don't because, wait, but yeah, if you, cause I might have eaten more than like at one time a lot. What happens if you eat a lot at once?

Speaker 3
To be honest, if you ate the whole thing at once, I don't know that it would be super harmful. Although I will say that there is some pectin in the gummies, so you might have a little GI distress from eating all of that. But yeah, if you ate eight, there's no harm. There's just probably no benefit, and you've now consumed the most expensive candy that is probably known to man.

I think it's probably a little more dangerous for your wallet, but I definitely wouldn't get in the habit of eating more than four a day, for sure.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. I know.

I was like, because I love them so much. I was like, how can I come up with a self control system here and actually only eat the dosage I'm supposed to, but I switched back to this.

Speaker 3
I keep mine in the bathroom so that they're not like where food is.

Barry Conrad
I'm super curious, did you working at Timeline, did they ever offer to test you guys to see if you naturally produce your Elithin A?

Speaker 3
Yeah. So we have been, it's part of a clinical trial and it's something that I'm really hoping we will commercialize one day.

Our scientific team are just incredible. I mean, they're just so smart, so creative. And so they've developed a, it's actually like a dried finger, you know, like you take a little finger stick and you put it on a little parchment, not parchment paper,

Barry Conrad
Is that the preclinical trial right now? Or is it like in, is it one of the current ones? It has the word blood spot in the title.

Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. And so we have this little kit where what we do is we send you a little bottle of pomegranate juice and then we send you a single dose of urolithin A and you drink the pomegranate juice and you test your blood and then you wait a little bit to make sure everything's out of your system. And then you drink, you take the urolithin A, you test your blood and you send it back to the lab and we show you like, are you a producer? And how much if you are, is the difference between from the pomegranate juice and the urolithin A?

So I have been given the option to take it. I've tried to take it multiple times. I have personally have really bad blood flow to my fingers and I also have like a needle phobia. So I personally like have just not been able to like complete the test myself. Like I stick myself so many times and I'm like, I can't do this anymore. But most of our team has tried it and has, you know, been able to discover whether they're a producer or not.

Barry Conrad
It's funny like the amount just with what I do, like the amount of times I have to like stick myself for things. A lot of the companies are not a lot, but quite a few now are using the one that sticks to your shoulder.

Have you seen that?

Speaker 3
I've seen that, I haven't tried that, but I would be much more open to that than like, there's only so many times I can stick my finger and like not get enough blood out. And I'm like, I can't do this anymore.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I hear you. That'll be so cool if they if they do create something like that though.

Speaker 3
Yeah. And truthfully, while it is cool information to know, I still suspect I'm not a producer or a very big producer because I was a C-section baby. I was bottle-fed and not breastfed. So I just really never started out with a very robust microbiome. And I don't drink six cups of pomegranate juice daily. So even if I was a producer, it doesn't matter.

I know I'm not having enough of the precursors to get to that 500 milligram threshold. So it's kind of cool information to know, but it doesn't help inform my decision making. It doesn't really change that.

Barry Conrad
Actually speaking to the producers, and because you mentioned berries, do you know if it's all berries? The reason I'm asking is I actually, I eat an exuberant amount of berries, like a shockingly high amount.

And then actually a listener, I wonder if she consumes as much as I do, Amy, she said, if someone already consumes an abnormally large amount of berries, is it still beneficial to take this supplement? And then she wanted to know if so what the benefits might be, which we've been talking about. But yeah, do you know what type of berries and yep.

Speaker 3
So it is in mostly like raspberries, blackberries, blueberries. I think there is some of the alleged tannins in strawberries as well.

It's really difficult to know how much, you know, so it's six cups of, like, I know we're moving to a different fruit, but it's six cups of pomegranate juice would be the equivalent of 500 milligrams. How many pomegranates do you have to eat to get to six cups of pomegranate juice, right? So I can't imagine, even if, like, all you ate were berries all day long, that you are getting enough, assuming you're a producer, that you are getting enough. Now, I mean, we could probably have some interesting conversations on, like, do you have to only take 250 milligrams or not? I mean, it's just so much we don't know, right? I think that's where things might get more interesting as we start maybe developing a task that consumers could take and see how much is in their blood, but we just don't know that yet.

Barry Conrad
That will be so cool if they do the test. And do you know the test?

Is it just looking at the, whether or not your latin A shows up in the bladder? Is that also looking at the, what is it? Like the Fermic, Fermic UTs to vectoroid DDS reshape.

Speaker 3
So it's not looking at, it's not a stool test. So it's not looking at all at what are the probiotics that are in, that are actually the converters. And to be fair, we actually aren't a hundred percent sure on what those microbes are. So I couldn't say to you, hey, take this probiotic with all the berries that you're eating and ensure that you're gonna make your alithinate. Like we're just not, we just don't know yet.

We do know that people who have a much more healthy robust microbiome, they tend to be producers. We know that Acromensia tends to be present, but so I couldn't even say like bypass the mitopure and just take a probiotic with, you know, your pomegranate juice because we just don't know which probiotic that would be. And I went on a tangent and I forgot what I was at, what I was answering you.

Barry Conrad
No, I love tangents. We're talking about the mountain berries and whether or not. Yeah.

Speaker 3
Yeah, so yeah, so I don't know. I don't think we know that.

Barry Conrad
A similar concept is why some people might see benefits from soy and others not, especially like Asian populations, because I think people, especially like Asian populations have a gut bacteria that tends to produce this compound called equal or something from soy. And you know, a lot of populations or people just don't have that gut bacteria. So that could be a reason that some people experience benefits from soy and not others.

Speaker 3
One of the interesting things that we've seen, so there's, you know, the published study that you had alluded to that has, you know, that really only about like 30 to 40 percent of the population can make your lithium-A, but we're doing, based on this, like, we call it our Midopure Challenge, the at-home finger stick, and just some other population studies that our Chief Medical Officer has looked at. And so it seems like European, like Mediterranean-style eaters tend to have, like, France tends to be one of the highest producers in terms of population level, whereas, like, the U.S. and Canada, no surprising, we're really low.

And even, so he, our Chief Medical Officer is Indian, so he has tested India, and they're also really low. His thought on that is mostly because they are very aggressive with antibiotic treatment, especially in young kids. So, yeah, I think just, like, the point you made with Asian populations, I think it's just sort of where you grow up, how you eat, what your gut is like as you grow up. Are you, you know, playing in the dirt? Are you in a really sterile environment? What kinds of foods are you eating? Were you breastfed? Were you bottle fed? All those important things are just establishing your gut microbiome from a young age.

Barry Conrad
I feel really, because I know we're talking about how there's all these different supplements out there and how do you know what's doing what, but I'm just really blown away by the research behind this and reading all of it. And especially with how so much of our guts today, our microbiome is not the best it could be because of, like you said, the way we're raised and like C-sections and pesticides and especially food here in the US.

So I feel like most people would stand to benefit. It'll be really exciting if they do release that test because then they could start getting a lot more data about how different levels of producers, natural producers, how it affects if they're taking it or not. For sure.

Speaker 3
sure. And then just, you know, again, that reminder is like, even if you are a natural producer, are you eating enough, you know, like, you have a very health conscious audience.

So they are eating a lot of berries and maybe nuts and all these great precursors. But when we look at like the US as a whole, we're not doing that.

Barry Conrad
So what are some of the other things that they studied? We've mentioned like the 12% strength and then blood spot tests, but what else do they look at?

Speaker 3
Yeah, so there was a study in an older population which looked at a different parameter of muscle health that was looking specifically at muscle endurance. And so this population, they were closer, I think like 65 to 90 or 95. This sort of like pre-frail, you know, just population where muscle decline is happening pretty quickly. And similar, like no exercise or diet was part of this study. And this was only with a thousand milligrams. It was the higher dose. But we saw there a 17% improvement in muscle endurance. Again, after two months, no change in exercise.

So there's a lot of really interesting, great data around the benefits of urolithinae and muscle. And it's no surprise when we think about the mitochondria being that key player on how urolithinae works and the muscles needing a steady supply of energy from the mitochondria to perform whether it's your daily activities or obviously some sort of physical activity, exercise, sports. But now we are really looking at trying to uncover where else there might be benefits outside of the muscle because the mitochondria, other than your red blood cells, they're in every cell in your body supplying critical energy and they're declining in all of your cells besides just your muscle cells, the quality declines with age. And there's been quite a lot of research and interest just in mitochondrial health in general for aging, whether it's brain aging, whether it's immune aging, whether it's skin aging, just pretty much any system of the body that you can think of, mitochondrial decline is likely to be contributing to the decline in that system. So we're trying to unlock, could mitopure help in some of these other areas? And we just published a study is getting quite a lot of press. I don't know if this one came across your radar, but it was just towards the end of last year. It was a study looking at immune aging. And this was also done with that a thousand milligrams to sort of the double dose. But the idea here was, we think about immune health, we're in the middle of cold and flu season. And I think most of us only really think about immune health when we catch a cold and flu and it becomes a sort of like seasonal, like I got to up my vitamin C and make sure that I don't get sick this season. But I mean, this was working obviously all the time. And it is also a key driver of aging. As we get older, we get sick more often and it's more severe. We don't respond to vaccines. If people are taking vaccines, you don't respond to them as well as you get older, but also more cases of cancer, more inflammation. A lot of stuff is being generated by an aging immune system. So the idea here was, are we seeing a benefit in an aging immune system? And we looked at healthy 50 year olds. And this was also just a one month trial and several different parameters of immune health were looked at from immune profiles, like immune cell profiles, like the types of immune cells that are in our blood.

Speaker 3
There's these early responding immune cells called naive T cells, naive CD8 T cells specifically. And they're sort of like the first responders for when you get sick. And as we get older, we don't have as much prevalence of those in our blood.

And what we saw was the significant improvement in those early responding T cells after one month of mitopure. We also looked at other things like mitophagy, mitochondrial function. How are these mitochondria working inside the cells? And we saw more that biogenesis, like I had talked about the creation of new mitochondria, we saw more of that in immune cells. And the immune cells were switching to more amino acid and free fatty acid oxidation. That's kind of like a cleaner energy source than glycolysis. Another really interesting piece that I find fascinating in this study is they, this was on outside the body. They took immune cells and they exposed them to E. coli and the immune cells were much better at responding to that E. coli stimulus and clearing those pathogens out of the bloodstream. So that is also a really interesting study that I think is just looking at a whole new area of aging that we hadn't really thought about yet.

Barry Conrad
Wow, this is so incredible. And I'm really excited because like I said, the book I've been working on, the chapter I was just working on was literally all about this immunosynescence and how the immune system ages.

Because we used to think aging was like injury, but it's not necessarily injury per se. It's a change in like a confusion in information and signaling. And it really, really seems like these different byproduct metabolites from the gut microbiome are having a huge, huge effect on that. So that's absolutely amazing that, yeah, that your lithium-A can do all this. Wow. The different populations that you mentioned being studied have been, have all been older. So how does age come into play? Like can kids take this? Should kids take this?

Speaker 3
Yeah. So we have not studied it in children. The youngest participants in our studies have been 18.

So some of our studies are in older adults. The strength study was in middle-aged adults. And one thing I also want to bring out is because I think this is just a hot topic for anyone in women's health is that women often feel like we are not represented in clinical studies. And all of our studies had actually more than half were female. So all of the claims that we're able to talk about are definitely happening in women and in men's. I think that's really incredible. There's also some really interesting research that your audience, especially if they're like an athletic audience, might be interested in. And there's a few studies in younger populations, specifically in athletes. And these actually were males. So that's the one area that women were unfortunately not represented. But we looked at endurance runners. There was a study done outside of our research institution, but it did use mitopure. And that looked at soccer players. And another study that looked at strength-trained athletes. And in all three of those populations, those were all pretty young. In like early 20s, we saw significant improvements in different parameters of health and performance there. So we saw in that soccer study improvements in how high these athletes could jump. We saw in one of the studies we saw that creatine kinase levels came down. So that's sort of a marker of muscle strain. And it's a marker of how well you're recovering after exercise. So there have been quite a few really interesting studies looking at younger populations and athletes as well.

Barry Conrad
Not the same marker at all, but I remember just the muscle study I was reading earlier, they also looked at how it, it wasn't like the main thing they were looking at, but they found that it reduced levels of CRP. So it was having like a beneficial effect on inflammation as well.

Speaker 3
And we've seen that across the board. So we looked at certain inflammatory markers in that immune study because influmaging is closely tied to immune decline.

Almost every single one of our studies, we also looked at C-reactive protein and that comes down across the board.

Barry Conrad
So what about the skincare aspect, the topical application?

Speaker 3
Yeah. So that's another area where we have clinical data as well is, you know, the urolithin A when you apply it topically is triggering this mitochondrial recycling in the skin cells and basically making the skin cell act in a more youthful way. So the main things that we see, what that sort of means is twofold. So the number one thing, which I think is really the most fascinating and kind of unique is that our skin is more resilient to the damaging effects of the sun. So we expose skin to UV light applied either a placebo or the urolithin A cream and all this like erythema and inflammation and swelling that happens after exposed to UV light resolved much more quickly with the urolithin A. And because sun damage is like the number one driver of skin aging, I think that's so unique.

And, you know, the retinols and alpha hydroxy acids and so many of the things that we use to help slow down skin aging, you have to be really, really careful in the sun when you use them. And I'm not suggesting that like you shouldn't be careful in the sun anyways with urolithin A, but there isn't that sort of increased sun sensitivity that's going to happen. And in fact, there might be a little bit of a protective or even reversal of some of the damage that's happening. And then what we also see is all the genes that are signaling collagen organization and collagen assembly, those are all upregulated and that actually translates into reductions in fine lines and wrinkles. So it's a really powerful topical. We have a whole beautiful line there from cleansers to exfoliators to different creams and eye cream serums all across the board have 1% urolithin A and we're seeing these really beautiful improvements in skin, you know, hydration and moisturization and specifically though that like wrinkle depth and volume is happening from the urolithin A, which is really nice.

Barry Conrad
Amazing. What's your favorite product?

Speaker 3
So my favorite product is our Dewy cream. For me, it gives this just, it's like aptly named like it gives this really beautiful Dewy glow that I just like, I don't wear a lot of makeup. I just put on like a tinted sunscreen. And so this just makes my skin look really beautiful and Dewy.

The best seller is either our barrier cream or our serum. I think those two tend to be fan favorites, especially in the winter. The barrier cream is thicker. It's what you might think of as more of like a traditional night cream, that type of consistency, but you can certainly use it. Like we moved away from calling something a day cream or a night cream because there's really no reason why you couldn't use one at any time of the day. It's just really about what types of consistencies you like on your skin. I think best sellers are the serum and the night cream. Oh, and the eye cream is also really an incredible product, but my personal favorite is the Dewy cream.

Barry Conrad
So if they had sent me it when it was the day cream, is that the Dewey cream?

Speaker 3
That's the Dewy Cream. Yep. Yeah. So we just went through a rebrand just exactly. Yeah. So you might have some of our old packaging. So the Dewy Cream was the Day Cream and the Night Cream we're calling our Barrier Cream because it's really beautiful for just helping support the skin barrier.

Barry Conrad
amazing. Oh my goodness. So well, I bet listeners are super eager to, to get these products and get might appear. So you guys are so, so kind listeners can get up to 39% off, which is huge when you subscribe at timeline.com slash IF podcast. So again, go to timeline.com slash IF podcast and subscribe and you'll get up to 39% off. Do you know what the subscription if they can be canceled at any time or do you know how they work?

Speaker 3
They can't be canceled at any time.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Okay. So that's a no-brainer. Do it.

And if you don't enjoy it, which I literally, it has become it's because like I said at the very beginning, there's a lot of supplements out there. I try a lot of things. I'm very, very intentional about the supplements that I keep in and like continue using daily and indefinitely. And this is one of them. Like it's a complete non-negotiable for me. It was already non-negotiable just from the effects I was experiencing. And that was before I even went and read all the clinical literature and you know, and talking with you and all these things. So I really believe almost everybody can really stand to benefit from this. It's absolutely, absolutely incredible. So and you said you take that you use the gummies.

Speaker 3
Yes, I sort of switch depending on whether I'm traveling or not. So if I'm traveling, I'll take the soft gels with me because they just travel a little bit better.

But I actually take all the products. We also have a really delicious berry powder that I mix into Greek yogurt. It doesn't have sugar or even an artificial sweetener.

Barry Conrad
Oh, I haven't tried that.

Speaker 3
Yeah, it's very tart, but since you're such a berry eater, you might really enjoy it. So it makes my plain Greek yogurt have a really nice berry flavor.

So I mix and match all of them depending on what I'm doing for the day. But my staple is usually the gummy or the soft gels if I'm traveling.

Barry Conrad
Awesome, awesome. What are you most excited about with the future of all of this?

Speaker 3
Oh gosh, we are starting to look at some new benefits potentially. Like we're looking at brain. We are, there is a clinical trial that I believe is going to be looking at like glucose metabolism. So there's just so much to learn and understand. And I think we've just barely scratched the surface.

You know, the research on mitochondrial health and longevity is just getting stronger and stronger every day. And then where your LIFIN-A fits into that, we're just barely scratched the surface. I'm really excited about that. And just more people, you know, it's really only been around for about five years, although the studies have been much longer. There wasn't a consumer product. So that's why I think while it's been studied for about 15 years, people haven't heard about it before. So I'm just really excited for people to start hearing about it and incorporating it in their life. And I wouldn't be here if I didn't think this was something that is really just such a foundational piece. Like I personally think of mito pure as I think of as like a fish oil or a vitamin D supplement. Just like what's in your foundational stack, not what's the like optimization stack. Like what's just, what's in your foundation. And that's really, really what I believe is that this should be in that foundational stack.

Barry Conrad
I cannot agree enough, and yeah, I'm so, so grateful. It's just funny because now I am remembering. I said at the beginning that I didn't remember how we connected, but it came to me. All this talking about it brought it out of the memories.

I remember when I first saw the pitch, and I was like, ah, this is just another supplement. I'm suspicious, and I have just done a complete 180. And like you said, I agree that it's a foundational source of something to optimize our bodies. So thank you so much. So again, listeners, go to timeline.com slash if podcast, or you can get up to 39% discount when you subscribe. You can cancel at any time. So definitely snag that discount. Yeah, anything else we do like to share, Jen, before we go?

Speaker 3
No, I think we covered it all. But your listeners can find out more at timeline.com or Instagram, which is timeline longevity. We love hearing from our customers. So whether you drop us a note on Instagram, or shoot us an email at care at timeline, we really... One thing I will say about the company is we love hearing from our customers. Our customers are always in our forefront of what... That's why we do what we do. So drop us an

Barry Conrad
I love it so much and I will say because we were talking before we started recording so I've met different people from timeline at booths at like Unimonia conference and Dave's conference and you guys have like the highest vibe and it is so clear how like personally passionate and obsessed you know you are like you walk walk the walk talk the talk whatever the phrase is it's very very evident so I'm just so grateful for what you're doing thank you for your time today this has been so great and I'm really excited for all the things in the future so thank you so much Jennifer.

Speaker 3
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Barry Conrad
Have a good rest of your day.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you Thank you so much for listening to the intermittent fasting podcast Please remember everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient doctor Relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes We couldn't do this without our amazing team editing by podcast doctors show notes and artwork By Brianna Joyner and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week

Feb 09

#460 – Colonoscopies, Valentine’s Day Thoughts, Coffee Vs. Tea Breaking A Fast, Floral And Flavored Teas, Caffeine, Impact Of Social Media On Eating Habits, Healthy Social Media Habits, And More!

The Impact of Social Media on the Eating Habits of Adolescents

Welcome to Episode 460 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 460 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 460 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, I have a question for you, but how are you today?

Barry Conrad
I'm really, really, really, really good, but before I elaborate, I want you to tell me what your question is. I'm intrigued.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you don't have to answer. I'm wondering if you wanted to share any of your experience with having a colonoscopy.

Barry Conrad
Wow. Okay. I was not expecting this question. And listen, as if this is TMI, please just like change podcasts for a second and to listen to this part or skip ahead.

Melanie Avalon
It's gut health. No, now you match me because I've had three, you know, right? And this was your first one.

Barry Conrad
This is my first one, and after I share how mine went, I'd love to also know why you've had three. Because I didn't know you had three, I know you had one, but I didn't know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm a pro. I'm a pro.

On the scale of it being as bad as you thought with the prep and everything, a scale of 1 to 10, one being like, this was the easiest thing ever. I could do it in my sleep. I want to do it again tomorrow. And then 10 is like, this was just horrible. Please let me never do this again.

Barry Conrad
I don't want to be doing this in my sleep. I don't want to be doing this when I'm awake. It was not great.

And, and to be fair, because listen, as this is my first ever colonoscopy as Mel blue, my spot up and told you also it's now it's out there, but, uh, I was sort of quite apprehensive when I saw the medication sitting on the table, staring at me all day, I was counting down the hours to start, you know, the process. It was overwhelming because I didn't feel anything for a little while. And then you start feeling situations. But anyway, it was a tablet form suitab. And then after a while you just start feeling crazy and you can do the math and guess what happens, but you basically don't really rest that much the night beforehand, which is, uh, that happened. And then, but I did actually managed to sleep through, which is good, but it was, I was nervous about it.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, they gave you a pill so it wasn't like the drink stuff?

Barry Conrad
So I guess you can take it in different forms, but I got like two bottles of 12 tablets and you have to take each tablet within a certain amount of time. Like you just basically take it, sip, drink, like, you know, take it, swallow it, take it, swallow it within a certain timeframe. And then you also have to fill that cup that they provide you with up to the line. And you have to like drink a certain amount of water. It's very, it's very meticulous.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I have not done the the pill approach. I've only done the like equally not fun the where you like mix up a drink and you have to drink like gallons and gallons.

I don't know if it's gallons. It's a lot.

Barry Conrad
It's a lie and you feel uncomfortable and bloated for a while and then you kind of wonder like what's going to happen, but then things happen.

Melanie Avalon
Yup. It was wild timing because I think I told you it was on Wednesday.

I think literally the day you did it, I was interviewing Dr. Carmen Fong for her book Constipation Nation, which talked all about bowel health and colonoscopies. I didn't talk a lot about colonoscopies, but she did talk about them. You survived.

Barry Conrad
I survived. You know what? I, the reason why I got it was Mel and I had been actually talking about this for probably a couple of years now, right? Melanie, like, I don't know if like, I should probably get one, whatever. And now I finally am in one place where I can do that. And I had a second to do it and have a bit of family history with stomach cancer and cancer in general. So I thought it's probably just worth doing. And, but then still you kind of go, I'm pretty healthy, but what if there's always like that. What if, because I know people, I don't know if you do malware, like they're fairly young and they just out of the blue get like pancreatic cancer or colon cancer. I'm like, what is happening? So I just want to be sure.

And basically when I came to the doctor walked in and he said, you have, this is verbatim. You have an A plus colon, you have an A plus colon and it could never, it could not be in better condition. There's no polyps. There's crazy, right?

Melanie Avalon
That's awesome. That is one of the things I like about.

One of the things I like about colonoscopies is they kind of immediately tell you the situation, you know, it's not like you have to like wait, wait a long time for results. They can just tell you right then because they literally just looked at it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, look at it, which doesn't sound very sexy at all, but he did say beforehand, if we find polyps or anything like that, we'll remove them, which is good. And I said, what would cause polyps? And he said, some people are genetically predisposed to having them. Sometimes they're benign, they don't mean anything.

I was like, I don't want polyps, but nothing was found, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Did they do an endoscopy too, or just a colonoscopy? I've always, I've always had both at the same time.

Really? Yep. You're a pro. I know mine were for, um, the first one was for when I got small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and I, like when my IBS started, it was for that. And then the second two were for anemia actually to see if I was like bleeding somewhere. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
You all clear?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so actually was kind of funny. Yes.

And after interviewing Dr. Fong, she actually was shocked that she said I must be doing everything right if I was having all those issues, but then everything was like normal. Have I have I have I told you about any of this at all before?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so.

Melanie Avalon
So, okay, one of them, I think the second one was when I was in the hospital for anemia. So they were like, we're just going to do a colonoscopy and endoscopy while you're here. So I was literally like in a hospital bed having to do the bowel prep, which is you can't move because you're like chained to the bed, you know, because you're like hooked up to stuff. So I would have to like call the nurse. It was very, it was the worst day of my life.

Like drinking all of that in a hospital bed and then having to like ring the nurse to go to the bathroom. I can't even express how horrible that day was. Oh my gosh.

Barry Conrad
Because I can't picture you as well like loving like hey, sorry, I gotta go to the

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no. That was not fun.

But we do support... So for listeners, I mean, I'm assuming they know what it is, but basically it's where they... Colonoscopy is a scope of your large intestine and endoscopy is your stomach. And yeah, you have to clean out everything beforehand. That's why you take the laxative stuff. And then the good thing is they can look like Barry was saying for signs of colon cancer and just other issues that you might have. And it's recommended, I think, preventatively. I think... Is it when you're in your 30s, I think, or 40s, maybe? Maybe 40s.

Barry Conrad
I do, I will say though, you know, again, this is one of the many things which I have to, I have to give credit to intermittent fasting for as well, because I eat so much. Like Melanie, you know this. I eat so much food in one sitting, so much red meat, ding, ding, ding for people who get freaked out about that. So it's like the fact that nothing was found, it was, it's just another confirmation that I'm on the right track.

It's sometimes like, well, no, sometimes always when you get those labs back or get results back, it's just, it's peace of mind, you know, do you feel the same way?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, definitely. And I looked it up. So starting at age 45 is where they recommend people have like one preventatively. If you have no symptoms and no significant family history, but if you have symptoms or family history, they suggest earlier, congratulations.

Now you know what that experience is like. You said you were worried about waking up during it?

Barry Conrad
Well, no, I just kind of, I was worried about not being able to sleep through the night, the night before, you know? And like people are like making jokes saying, bro, you might have to wear like an adult diaper or something. I'm like, I'm not wearing a diaper, I'm not doing that.

Melanie Avalon
You refuse. Oh my gosh.

Barry Conrad
I'm not doing that. Did you do that?

Melanie Avalon
Wear a diaper? No, that's funny. I am. I'm thinking about it. No, I'm trying to think when I started the The prep I don't know. I don't even know but but yay congratulations

Barry Conrad
Well, thank you. And now I'm finally on the same, uh, on the same page. Yeah. Same page colonoscopy wise.

Melanie Avalon
We can talk about it and we both experienced it, yet another topic of conversation.

Barry Conrad
Oh, well, let's, let's hope we don't bring this up when we're eating, when you finally do eat together, because that's going to.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, and happier news before we jump in. When this comes out, it will be Valentine's Day. In five days, I think, my question for you is how do you feel about Valentine's Day?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I am a hopeless romantic.

Melanie Avalon
people have feelings about it.

Barry Conrad
I'm hopeless, romantic, and also at the same time, I kind of, well, not I kind of feel, I know that if you love someone, particularly if you're with someone, like if you're in a relationship, then every day should be Valentine's Day. You shouldn't wait for a special day to like make someone feel special.

But if you're dating and you're sort of just like single and playing the field and just having fun, I think it's pretty exciting as well. Cause you can kind of pick a Valentine and that's a different thing. So, I mean, that that's how I feel. I do like getting nice stuff and giving nice stuff, particularly more so as well. I'm like going out to dinner and all that stuff, but I think it's like an all year. What do you, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I think I'm just really intrigued by the whole concept because, well, one, isn't it based on like dark things? Isn't it like St. Valentine's Massacre or something?

Barry Conrad
What? Okay, I didn't even know this.

Melanie Avalon
Long time, stay history, hold on, we look this up.

Barry Conrad
Now I think I might have to take that.

Melanie Avalon
St. Valentine's Day Massacre was February 14th, 1929. I shouldn't laugh. Let's see. Why? Okay, wait, let me take this back. Was this not when it originated?

Barry Conrad
That's scary if it is.

Melanie Avalon
that happened after. I thought the, it's just linked to Valentine's Day because it happened on Valentine's Day, but I thought that the history of it is kind of weird.

Okay, St. Valentine was a priest in the third century. The legend says that Emperor Claudius II banned marriage for young men, believing soldiers fought better unmarried. Valentine secretly performed weddings. Oh, and he was arrested and executed on February 14th. Okay, I knew there was something dark about the actual day. So he would secretly perform weddings for men. Interesting. And then there's like a whole not like a whole lot of other, I don't know, history surrounding it. But in any case, I find it really interesting because I feel like people are either, I don't know, people are in different states of relationships. So they're either like Team Valentine's Day or they like hate it. You know, it's like Single Awareness Day.

Barry Conrad
Do you hate it or are you like, I love ill-intense, did you like the feeling of it?

Melanie Avalon
It's funny, I love being single. So when people are like single Awareness Day, like as a negative, I'm like, it's great, I love it.

I don't know that I've actually, oh yes, I have, nevermind. I was gonna say that I hadn't had like a Valentine's Day date, but I have. My first memory, I think, of a Valentine's Day date was a fail and it was, I was dating, I'd been dating this man, like I'd been dating him for a while. We were like regularly dating. And then I was just casually like, this was like in college and I was like, so what do you wanna do for Valentine's Day? Like I didn't mean anything by it. And then later I got a text being like, should we, I don't know if we should like do Valentine's Day. And I was like, oh, okay, that's awkward. Moving on.

Barry Conrad
That is awkward. What? Who says that? What? What the?

Melanie Avalon
He does. So that was like, and so then after that, like every Valentine's Day, I was like, make sure you don't like inappropriately ask about Valentine's Day to anybody.

Barry Conrad
No, you should because anyone who's not, you know, weird about it is not going to say that, which is most people. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
This is true. But yes, most recent memories of Valentine's Day were just like working in restaurants during it.

And it's Valentine's Day. I think the majority of the serving world, if you were like, what is the worst day to work? It's Valentine's Day.

Barry Conrad
Why? People with like, you know, these broad zillas are like Valentine's zillas? I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
It's because it's so crowded. You literally go nonstop for hours and hours and hours.

It's usually, if it's a fancier place, they'll have like set price menus, which are cheaper. And then there's a lot of people who, I shouldn't, how do I say this? People who would not normally be dining at that type of restaurant and might not be able to afford it really. So you don't actually make a lot in tips for the amount of time and like effort and energy that you're there. I mean, you make a lot, usually because there's just so many people, but it's not people who are typically always abundantly giving to the server. Yeah, I have like nightmares about Valentine's Day serving.

Barry Conrad
I'm picturing you like in my head, as you were talking, I was picturing you like, you know, flying around the room, just, you know, being a great service, smiling from ear to ear, just being super kind and nice, but in people being a nightmare to you.

Melanie Avalon
Literally, I mean, I wish I could go back and watch myself when I first started serving and I was in the honeymoon phase, because I was literally that. And I think I told you I'd wear like, I don't know if I told you, I'd wear like a big massive bow, like massive bow and I would like match it to my lipsticks would be like a pink bow and pink lips or a red bow and red lips.

And then like on one Christmas shift, the manager actually took one of the bows down from the wreath, which was like even bigger than the bows in my hair and he let me wear that in my hair.

Barry Conrad
Meanwhile, do you have photos of these bows? Because I need to see some of these.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know that I do. I don't know that I do. I don't think I do.

Barry Conrad
Or maybe what you could do is for Valentine's Day, you could, you know, if you have a date for Valentine's, you could wear a bow in your hand, take a photo.

Melanie Avalon
No, but I don't wear my hair up anymore. That was just for surveying. Oh, I could even like, when my hair down a big bow. Yeah. Maybe. I will consider it.

Barry Conrad
So you used to wear your hair. I've actually never seen you with your hair out before.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you'd have to for serving. But yeah, well, you should meet me in real life. I wear it up like every day. It's up right now.

Barry Conrad
No, I can't wait. It's gonna be great.

Melanie Avalon
So yes, on that note, we hope everybody has a lovely Valentine's Day better than everything I just said, which was a lot of not channel Barry Conrad, what he said about it.

Barry Conrad
I don't know if it was much better. It was just like, you know, if you like it, you like it. If you, you know, it should be all the time.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, every day, Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day.

Barry Conrad
Happy Valentine's Day, everyone, as well. And I hope you have whatever it's, if it's single awareness day for you, a Valentine's Day, hope it's awesome either way.

Melanie Avalon
All right, shall we jump into some fasting-relating things?

Barry Conrad
I can't wait. I think we should.

Melanie Avalon
I love that we went from colonoscopies to Valentine's Day.

Barry Conrad
colonoscopies to valentine's aids to fasting, like that's how we do it. And that's actually how listeners, this is actually how we talk offline as well. Like it's the same.

Melanie Avalon
we just like oscillate and quickly switch between a variety of completely random topics. Okey dokey. So first question, would you like to read Nydia's question?

Barry Conrad
I would. So, Nydia on Facebook asks, what are you drinking?

And a group I follow had a debate about tea versus coffee, like why coffee if you drink it black and have a few calories won't break a fast, but tea even though it's natural like the floral ones can break a fast. Melanie, what are your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, Nadia. Okay, these are great questions. It's funny, when I first read, what are you drinking? I thought she meant like alcohol, but I think she's talking about non-alcoholic morning afternoon situation stuff. Which speaking of, when this episode airs, I think my glow coffee should be coming out, I think, because we're aiming for a mid-February launch. So fingers crossed.

So everybody, if you're not on the email list, go to glowcoffeeco.com, get on the email list. And that coffee is going to have basically the highest CGA content possible in coffee, which is the master antioxidant in coffee. And it's organic, toxin free, it tastes absolutely stunning. It's amazing. And it helps you glow inside and out. So definitely get on there.

So what am I drinking? I'm drinking glow coffee, which is true. But for as far as your questions, Nadia, about the tea versus coffee, very good questions. So black coffee, just straight up black coffee, plain, it doesn't have calories. For most people, it doesn't meaningfully raise insulin, it doesn't really affect anything that would instigate the eating state or the digestive state. On the contrary, it actually can support fat burning by the hormones that it upregulates. So neurotransmitters that can make you alert and help you burn fat. So it might even help you get into ketosis more or burn more fat.

Tea, so plain tea is a similar situation. So black tea, green tea, white tea, that's the same as black coffee, where they're not really going to have something that's going to confuse your body about whether or not it's in the fasted state. I know I've said this before, but just for anybody new, my mind was blown when I realized that green tea, black tea, and white tea are all the same thing. I thought they were like different plants. Like I thought black tea was a plant and green tea was a plant and white tea was a plant. But it's just how they, I guess it's how long the leaves are, what is it, fermented or do you know? I think fermented. I think so. But when it comes to these other, some teas, like flavored teas or teas where it's like, I'm thinking of, I'm having flashbacks when I used to drink all these different celestial seasoning teas. Do they have those in Australia?

Barry Conrad
I'm sure that they do have it in Australia, but it does sound like something here.

Melanie Avalon
all these flavors like they would have a um they would have like a my favorite was the Christmas cookie sleigh ride or something one like they would have like Christmas flavors like sugar plum fairy and yeah like I said Christmas cookies.

Barry Conrad
I want to try that. I want to try that. Sounds good.

Melanie Avalon
The cookie one, oh my goodness. It was so like I would put in some actually some coconut oil into it and some stevia and it would taste it would taste like a cookie. It was so good.

Interestingly, I remember though it said not gluten-free on the box and I was like that's interesting. But in any case, so any sort of tea where it's like not just tea and there's a theme going on and a flavor thing going on that is going to send signals to your body that you're possibly eating something or it can. And then same with floral related teas, they can also just because of like their flavor in them, they might also give that that signaling to your body. So if you were to try like fruit teas with dried fruit pieces, that's probably going to be a problem. Anything with natural flavor added and then some like like licorice root or hibiscus or rose. I think for those you would have to evaluate yourself and how you react. So if they don't have anything added and it's just like the rose tea or the hibiscus tea or the chamomile or the licorice, I would say try it and see does it does it make you hungry? If you have a continuous glucose monitor, you could see if it's affecting your blood sugar levels at all. But basically it's just kind of like a gray zone where it might send contradictory signals to your body about the fasted state compared to coffee and plain teas. Thoughts, Barry?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I thought you answered that beautifully, Mel. Nydia, it's a good question because I think there are a lot of debates that get way more dramatic than they need to be when it comes to, you know? I agree.

I'm usually drinking. What am I drinking, Nydia? I'm drinking water, sparkling water, black coffee, sometimes black tea. But usually I'll have black tea as a way of getting sleepy for the night. This is more of a ritual when I'm watching something really late at night. Whereas coffee, I can also drink all day, but tea is more like a relaxing thing for me. Coffee is more like, let's go get the day kind of thing. And that's my core tree or black coffee works for most people because it's basically, it's calorie free and doesn't trigger that instant response. Like Mel said, it doesn't wake up digestion in the way food does. And for a lot of it, it does help suppress appetite and make the fast feel easier. And tea can get murkier because as Mel said, again, it depends. Is it flavored? Is it themed? The issue is what's in the tea. And you know, it's not that they're quote unquote bad. It's just that they're not neutral. Something that's flavored is going to trigger an insulin response. So it's less about coffee versus tea and more about how your body responds as well. I mean, if you feel fine and you don't feel hungry like Mel said, sure, do that. You know, for other people, they can have one little bit of their flavor tea and feel really ravenous all day. So it's listening to your body. That's your clue. And you know, if it's going to make you foggy, hungry, thinking about food all day, which is not ideal, it's probably nudging you out of that faster groove and you know, at the same time, yeah, just paying attention. It's not about being perfect, but it's good to know that not all teas are made the same.

Melanie Avalon
Do you drink decaf coffee at night?

Barry Conrad
I don't typically drink coffee at night, not because I-

Melanie Avalon
I'm starting a coffee. I'm sorry. Tea. You said you drink black tea. Is it decaf black tea?

Barry Conrad
No! That's not, that's not TKF.

Melanie Avalon
You're one of those people you're like my dad, like you can have caffeine at night and it actually like helps you sleep.

Barry Conrad
I actually don't know how that works out because for me, I have it as my pre workout to help give me that kick in the morning, but at the same time, I can drink it kind of all day and not feel like I'm wired, so I don't know what the science behind that is, but I don't feel like it keeps me up at night.

Melanie Avalon
You are probably a fast-capping metabolizer. I would put money on that, genetically.

Barry Conrad
Maybe, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like I'm a slow caffeine metabolizer. So if I have a little bit of caffeine, it like stays with me.

Barry Conrad
No way. I need like, I need at least maybe two minimum before hitting the gym in the morning.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you probably like process it like in and out or good because you know, like they say the half-life of caffeine is six hours, but that's just the average. It really depends on how your genetic makeup processes caffeine. That's so interesting.

Barry Conrad
So when you have it, you feel like it's like a slow release kind of thing?

Melanie Avalon
So I only have a little bit of coffee in the morning, like a tiny bit, even though I love it. But if I were to have, I mean, but in the past I used to drink a ton of coffee like in college and stuff, but if I were to have more, I would feel it.

Yeah, like all day, like I would feel like I'm proud. I would still be like wired hours and hours later.

Barry Conrad
Wow, that's really interesting to me, actually.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's a nice hack though because I have so little if I do need some, like if I do need to stay up or be really awake, I can have like a not even a lot amount of coffee and I'll be like good because I don't normally have it that much.

Barry Conrad
Do you know if it's dependent on the size of a person? Like, you know, just how large you are as a person.

Like, cause you're little, you're, you know, petite, I'm taller and bigger and a man. So is it dependent on that or not really?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I would imagine that's a factor. I do think, though, that the main factor is just genetically.

Barry Conrad
Wow.

Melanie Avalon
So, same with, there's also like alcohol processing genes, which I know I'm good with those.

Barry Conrad
Me too.

Melanie Avalon
We're good there.

Barry Conrad
We are good there.

Melanie Avalon
All right, well, thank you, Nydia, so much for your question. OK, shall we answer? Oh, we didn't. We went straight into questions, and I forgot about the study.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, totally. I noticed that, but I thought maybe you're doing like a different.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know what I was thinking, Barry.

Barry Conrad
That's because you were talking about the colonoscopies, you were just kidding, sir.

Melanie Avalon
I was like, we're flying through this. Do you have a berry? I just bought some berries. Do you have a study about intermittent fasting you would like to share with us or might not be about fasting?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I do have a study and the study I have that I'm sharing today is called the impact of social media on the eating habits of adolescents.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, can you send me the link?

Barry Conrad
I found it really interesting. I'm sending a two-note email. Let's go to the, here we go. One, two, three. And you should have it.

So I found this super fascinating. It was carried out by the researchers. Nicola Tsikova and Pavel Kazel at the College of Physical Education and Sport, Polestra and Prague. And it was originally published in November, 2022 in the peer reviewed journal, Acta Salas Vertai. The study looked at a really solid substantial group of teenagers, 344 adolescents aged between 15 and 19, which gives it a pretty decent amount of weight. So what the researchers wanted to sort of understand was how social media is shaping the way young people eat. And they used an online questionnaire to start with and explored how often teenagers use these social platforms. What kind of food and nutrition content they're exposed to, whether they trust that information that they're exposed to, and most importantly, whether it actually changes the eating behavior. And seriously, it confirms so much of what. I suspected, and not necessarily all bad or all good, but almost every participant used social media daily. And a lot of our listeners, you listeners to this podcast have teenagers and even themselves use social media. Most of them use it for several hours a day. Platforms like IG, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, they all like really dominated the situation. And a big chunk of their scrolling included food posts, mine too, by the way. Food posts, fitness videos, body focused content, and diet related messaging. And food content was not a small side situation at all. It was baked right into their daily online experience. And Mel, one of the most sort of eye opening findings is that they found around 75% of these teenagers followed nutrition or fitness content regularly. More than half said they relied on influences for advice rather than qualified health professionals. And that alone tells you a lot about where young people and people are getting the information from in general. Nearly 45% said social media directly influences what they eat. And just over 41% said they had actively changed their eating habits based on something they saw online. I mean, not all of it was negative, as I said. So about like a third of participants said they had increased the intake of fruit and veggies after being exposed to certain content, which is great. And that shows social media can be a really positive influence when the message is reasonable and grounded, which is key. But there's another side to it because 17% of the teens reported changes that are much more worrisome, like things like restricting food, feeling guilt around food and eating, or copying extreme or unrealistic diet behaviors that they saw online, which is really dangerous. And that mental, emotional sort of impact really stood out as well because nearly 69% of these adolescents said they regularly compare their bodies or eating habits to others on social media. 59% said social media had worse in their relationship with food and their bodies and their body so burden to carry at a young age.

Barry Conrad
And it just shows how closely self-worth and food and online validation are becoming so intertwined with each other. And another thing I found super interesting was that these teens weren't completely uncritical. So around 68% said they do sometimes fact check nutrition, good job, information outside of social media, and just over half follow at least some sort of verified or professional accounts. Still, most of them sort of, they rated the trustworthiness of social media nutrition advice as only moderate, which makes sense when so much of it comes from influences rather than evidence-based sources.

And so I kind of thought, how does all this sort of tie into IF and intermittent fasting? And why would I share this? Because fasting content lives in the exact same online spaces, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. They're all full of fasting challenges, dramatic before and afters, pictures that are enhanced, and advice that really a lot of the time is dangerous and lacks context for people. Like someone that could look amazing and post a plan is not necessarily something they followed. So this study is a reminder that people absorb food beliefs from what they see, especially young audiences. And without guidance, those messages can really turn into restriction. And as we talked about in the show so many times about guilt around food and rather than health. So any listeners out there who are parents or have teenagers or are teenagers, this study highlights just how important it is to talk openly about food, social media, and intention. Because IF, when done properly, is actually flexible and grounded and structured. It's not about extremes and it's definitely not about punishment. And this really reinforces why education and balance really matter. So now I think this is a really good conversation. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, okay, so many things. Well, one, so when I first heard the title, I thought it was going to be about like looking at social media while eating and how that affects it, not because of the content, just because of like being distracted today.

Because I was literally thinking last night, I was thinking about how, because when I eat, I read books, I look at, yeah, social media. When you eat, do you do other things?

Barry Conrad
When I'm eating, I typically like to watch a show or something like that, you know what I mean? Sometimes I might look at something, but my hands are full and my mouth is full too, so often I'll be watching a show or something like that, a guilty pleasure or something.

Melanie Avalon
So it's, it's interesting because I was thinking last night, I was like, cause they say, you know, that you should just not do stuff like that while eating and just like be in the moment. And I, and I was thinking about, and I was thinking if everybody did that, like if we actually just ate and didn't distract ourselves otherwise, actually I'm going to talk about this next week in the study that I'm talking about. I was like, that would actually, we would probably eat way less because it, you know, just mindlessly, it's interesting how like when you're doing something else and not focusing on actually eating, I feel like you can just kind of keep eating.

But in any case, now I understand that this is more about how, you know, what we see in social media, how it's affecting our thoughts of our body image and what we put in our body and what we don't. And what's really interesting to me is that like the idea of credible health professionals. So like the people that we should be getting the information from what I find interesting is so conventional doctors in general are not always like staying up on the latest literature because they're in the office actually, you know, seeing patients and doing procedures and things like that. And they're not usually vocal spokespeople except to their individual patients unless they become like an author and write a book. Or there's like researchers who write like scientific journals, but I don't think most people are reading scientific journals for fun like I am. So where I'm going with this is I think on the one hand, it's really great that there is now an avenue where there can be these quote influencers who if they are credible can share the information they find, you know, interview the people. I mean, kind of like what I'm doing. My point is like, I think there are people that you can follow and get good information from and it's not necessarily a negative thing per se. And if anything you might be exposed to more update and current information, but then at the same time, there's so many influencers and there's until much of it is just trendy and click bait and you know, short attention span and not giving you a lot of information that you need.

I guess you have to know it's kind of like the onus is on and the responsibility is on the person to decide who they're following, who they're looking at. And then on top of that to decide their mindset surrounding how they engage with it, because something that you said, reminded me, I thought it was interesting that the study that you read or that you talked about showed both the positives and the negatives, you know, like there, like there's good and bad here. And I'm being reminded of I'm trying to remember who it was. It was a guest that I recently interviewed for my show and she was talking about the role of social media and like food and diet and self-image and like mental health and wellness.

Melanie Avalon
And basically it all came down to, it wasn't even about like the content. So the content could be whatever the content was. It was literally all about the person reading the content. And did you find this sort of content motivating or did you find it like a comparison game?

And I almost feel like that's the, I don't want to say the end all, but like the mindset that you have when you come into this is either, I mean, not to be black and white, but are you there to be motivated and find information and make yourself better? Or are you there to compare yourself? Because if you're there to compare yourself, it doesn't even matter what you're looking at. Like nothing is going to create a healthy situation for you if you're just there comparing yourself. But if you're there, like looking for information genuinely and honestly and looking for motivation, then on the flip side, it's like almost same thing. Like maybe almost any content could be helpful. That's kind of like a meandering thing. But yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

How do you feel like you engage with social media content?

Barry Conrad
I was actually just talking to someone about this, an active friend of mine yesterday or the day before, actually the day before, and she actually got rid of her social media because she found that it wasn't helpful for her mental health and whatnot. So I do think that it's, you asked how I feel about it.

When I'm feeling tired and my defenses are down, my attitude towards social media can be very different to what it's like when all sources are firing and I feel great, meaning I often may have to like eject or like, take a second because I know that, as you just said, like the point that you made, it doesn't matter what you see on your screen, if you're not in the state of mind or not in a great place or not in the strongest place, comparison could creep in or it's just not gonna be helpful. It could just feel like noise, but when you feel like you have a clear head, you set your mind for the day, speaking to myself, then I can jump in. But I do find it supremely helpful and it's a part of my job and also it can be overwhelming as well. So you're exactly right, how you enter the space is important and exposing yourself to it, going to look for something while you're feeling vulnerable in any way, it's never really gonna result in a good outcome, I think. Whether that's a mindset shift or actions you take, I think it's important, you're right now.

Melanie Avalon
It's interesting because I think, for me, it's hard to, you know, look at yourself in a non-biased way because it is you. And at the same time, I think I tend to be motivated by social media, like, in general. I either use it to find information to better my life, or if I see people who, like, have a certain body aesthetic that I like, I get, I get motivated by that. Like, I like looking at people that I think physically are the way that I want to look. Yeah, I find it more motivating rather than making me feel worse about myself, but it's such a slippery slope.

And I think so many people struggle with the opposite, where it's just, you know, constant comparison game. So I have not done, I don't think I've done, like, a social media fast.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
I don't think so.

Barry Conrad
Do you ever like even like a couple days or like a day like you you weren't going at all, whether it's intentional or not, do you always kind of feel like off because you feel motivated and inspired by it. You kind of like look forward to going to it every day kind of thing.

Melanie Avalon
It's really ironic because I literally have one of my stickers on my calendar. So I have like my calendar of like things I have to do every day. One of my stickers is I have to go on Facebook. Not have to, I like, I like going on Facebook.

Let me, let me say that again. I love the Facebook group. I, I'm trying to, I realized that I wasn't in it as much as I wanted to be in the past. And so I was like, I should just make sure I go in every day and post something like every day, no exception. So it's just ironic because I literally have a goal to do that. I think with it being my job, because your question was, what, would I basically go and try that?

Barry Conrad
Or do you ever take or intermittently fast social media or take breaks over the holidays or like a work break or something like that?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well actually here's something, because this is a game changer for me. Once I turn off social media at night, I like have my cap at the end of the night.

I will not engage, I'll consume passively content, but I will not go into any sort of social media situation where it's like engaging with people, if that makes sense.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Melanie Avalon
And I use time blocks for Facebook at least, so I only go on Facebook at night. I do not look at it during the day.

I should get better about that with Instagram. I should probably do time blocks with Instagram.

Barry Conrad
Timelocks, like a timer, you reach your limit for the day.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, basically. Or like I should just do it when I'm in the sauna. That's what I should do, is only do it in the sauna.

Barry Conrad
Wow. This is a super, it's a really interesting topic because I feel like safe to say if someone's listening to this, they probably are on social media, likely anyway.

So it's like everyone has a story of their relationship to it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and it's interesting to because I know people will say on like on Instagram and stuff that that people just show their highlight reels and That so that's true. Like so like my instagram is quote the highlight reel in my life.

So it's Information about the podcast and then it's usually like whatever show I saw or whatever fun thing i'm doing That's what I post. I don't post my everyday, you know life But at the same time I don't see that as a negative because to me it's like a scrapbook, you know it's like capturing like we used to capture memories and physical photos And we made elp we made photo albums but now we make instagrams

Barry Conrad
Yeah, no, I completely agree and I don't know why it's it's like, well, you're not showing everything. Well, also, why should you have to show everything?

It doesn't mean that we're not going through mundane or necessarily bad things or just boring blah things. But if you choose to share something exciting, that's great. It doesn't mean that we only have those things happening, but I think it's a good thing.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly because okay, so here's my here's my thought with that. It's like if I was just sharing literally everything about me every second that is just like pure ego the stuff I try to share I try I like sharing about like shows I see like I like sharing stuff that has content where people can like experience it through me because there's some content there or they can like it's not typically I just don't think I just don't have any interest in just posting like oh here's me in my kitchen hi

Barry Conrad
Here's you, but like here, I'm buying some cucumbers right now. This is the cut. I'm, you know, pushing. I get what you're saying. Awesome.

Listen, we'd love to hear from you as well. What's your relationship to social media and does it impact your diet or your food or does it motivate you? Does it not? Let us know what you think.

Melanie Avalon
I didn't even touch on that part, how it affects what people are actually eating. Does it affect what you eat?

Barry Conrad
No. I mean, actually, no, I lied. It affects how I eat in a good way, meaning I like to find good recipes. That's all.

It's not like I'm very happy with my food choices, aka the types of food I like to have. It's more like an effect.

Ah, I want to try that. More like that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, same. I think I'm very immune to like changing it based on, you know, something else, something that I see from somebody else, which again is a teaser for next week.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to hear your study.

Melanie Avalon
So awesome find. Should we do another one or should we go to our restaurant?

Barry Conrad
It's your go-to restaurant.

Melanie Avalon
We could, yeah. Speaking of food.

Barry Conrad
Speaking of food, now I'm hungry.

Melanie Avalon
Well, that's good timing because you're going to be eating in a, in a bit. Okay.

Well, friends, this part of the show, we love to end the show with our proverbial breaking of the fast moment. And this is where we find really cool restaurants and we imagine how we would break our fast, because the benefits of fasting are not just from the fasting, they are in large part from the actual eating window.

So I found a restaurant.

Barry Conrad
I'm waiting with bed at birth. I can't wait to see, is it going to be scary? Is it going to be, is it going to be an Epcot? Is it going to be, I'm trying to think.

Melanie Avalon
It's something that is not open year-round, but it will be open when this airs.

Barry Conrad
Hmm.

Melanie Avalon
So this is an Alaskan restaurant. It is called Seven Glaciers. It's in Anchorage, Alaska.

It's high up in the, I don't know how you say this, the Chukok Mountains. And to get there, you have to take an aerial tram. And it goes 2,300 feet up to this location. And it's at the Aleiska Resort. And the restaurant, again, is called Seven Glaciers. And apparently, you can see, it's called that because you can see seven glaciers through all the windows. So here is the restaurant.

Barry Conrad
By the way, awesome name, that's such a good name.

Melanie Avalon
Isn't it? I know.

And it is fine dining and they have wild game and local seafood and seasonally forage produce. They're one of America's 100 best wine restaurants in 2023 by wine enthusiasts. They have a recipient of the Wine Spectator Best of Award of Excellence. They have the AAA Four Diamond Award as well.

Oh, and the seven glaciers are Crow Glacier, Raven Glacier, Eagle Glacier, called them birds, Clear Glacier, Goat Glacier, Milk Glacier, and Ialeeska Glacier.

Barry Conrad
Sounds incredible.

Melanie Avalon
What's something that's really funny is I love that they have a nightcap reservation as well. Nice, we want that. Sure, yes. So here's the, we can do the sample menu.

Barry Conrad
Here we go, clicking on in, seven glaciers. So there's a chef's tasting menu and there's a chef's taste. Okay, so there's, wow, it looks so good.

Melanie Avalon
I guess this is two sample menus. So I guess it's a set. Do you get all of that?

Barry Conrad
I want to say you get it all, like, depending on which side, is that it? Or is it the whole lot? I think it's each sign because the dessert's different on each side.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So it looks like it is, I guess it's always a set price menu. So actually, this will be interesting for me.

Barry Conrad
because historically we know that you would have a set menu, but you prefer to have ala khat.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, you know what? I think the one on the left is the vegan menu and then the one on the right is a sample non-vegan menu. So would you go vegan or non-vegan?

Barry Conrad
non-vegan, thank you very much.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Okay.

So there's not a lot to go through because it's just a sample menu, but I guess we can talk about if we would eat this or not or how we would get it. Okay. So for the non-vegan, well, oh, scallop ceviche to start with seaweed crisp and tiger milk. I would have that depending on how it's created. Might have to do some edits.

Barry Conrad
It actually sounds delicious. Do you like Sabeet J? I love Sabeet J.

Melanie Avalon
I do. I haven't had scallop form, have you?

Barry Conrad
No, I actually haven't. This is very unusual.

Melanie Avalon
I think I've only had shrimp.

Barry Conrad
Shrimp ceviche, I've had like, oh, like King, like there's just so much, especially in Bali, there's so many different kinds of fish and seafood. They just love having a ceviche style there, but I've never had scallop before.

Melanie Avalon
Scallops of EJ. So scallops and then forage greens, garden and mountain herbs, carrots, zucchini. You can, do you want mine for there, for that one?

Barry Conrad
I love it. I mean, I'm all for the food.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, perfect. Lobster bisque. Do you like lobster bisque?

Barry Conrad
I do actually like lobster bisque. I had a disaster cooking with a lobster bisque that was store-bought, which I won't do it again.

I'm not going to call it the name of the store, and it's not Whole Foods.

Melanie Avalon
It was like pre-made or like not in a can. It was like at a or what was it in a can?

Barry Conrad
It was like a tub of like lobster bisque, but it was like a viral picture, like a viral, you know, recipe online. And they said, you have to try this lobster bisque. And so I tried doing it and it was just like, uh, it was too mushy and not great.

But this one doesn't look mushy and not great. This one looks great. Scallop, crouton, paddlefish, caviar.

Melanie Avalon
Cattlefish caviar. Ooh.

Barry Conrad
Would you have that?

Melanie Avalon
I'll have some of the caviar. I literally, the other day, I've been craving smoked salmon. Like the raw, wait, have you been to Whole Foods yet in person?

Barry Conrad
I actually have, but I haven't liked it. I haven't had like a big shop, but I have been inside one. Yes.

Melanie Avalon
How was it?

Barry Conrad
It's awesome. It's like it has everything.

Melanie Avalon
Are you going to keep going back?

Barry Conrad
Okay. Listen, as Melanie keeps, she really wants me to just like be a whole foods convertie. And I do think it's what they're awesome. They have so much produce. There's so much meat, so much everything. It's great.

I will be going back.

Melanie Avalon
We got to get you going every day like me.

Barry Conrad
Every day.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, I did not go today, which is very rare, but almost every day.

Barry Conrad
I can't actually, I can actually forgot that you do that. It's wild to me that you, you just like, you like the feeling of it, right?

Melanie Avalon
I gotta go out and I gotta like, I gotta hunt my food. You know, I gotta like gather. It's like my natural cave girl coming out.

Barry Conrad
You know what, that could be, that's the thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I went to, I don't know why I've been craving smoked salmon. So I literally went and spent, I don't even know how long, 15 minutes. I looked at the, they have a lot of smoked salmon and I looked at the back of every single one. I'm trying to find one without salt.

They all have salt and they all have the sodium level is insane on smoked salmon. It's like your entire sodium in like a pack and I don't add salt to anything. So I think it would wipe me out.

Barry Conrad
So it's fair to say you didn't get any?

Melanie Avalon
No, but what's funny is I have now done this twice, like within a week, like gone and spent 15 minutes, looked at everything and then like the next day I'm like, you know what? Maybe I missed it.

Let me try again. 15 more minutes. Looking at the back of everyone. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
I do love smoke salmon and also I've never heard you mention that you craved smoke salmon before so that's new.

Melanie Avalon
The reason I thought about it, by the way, was we were talking about caviar and the smoked salmon is right next to the caviar. And I was like, I'm not even going to look at the caviar because the sodium content is probably equally insane.

No, yeah, I do like, do you like smoked salmon?

Barry Conrad
I'm obsessed with it. Seriously, I'd have packs and packs of it. I love it so much.

Melanie Avalon
I feel better now, though, because I feel like I've gone to a lot of restaurants and had the smoked salmon and complained in my head about it being too salty and I was blaming the restaurant. But now I think it's just the way it is.

So that's probably my bad. Okay, then we have agnolotti and wild garlic. What is that?

Barry Conrad
Have a look at it. What's egg and a lonnie? Hold on. This is.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, it's a pasta. It is? Mm-hmm. It's stuffed pasta from Italy. Ooh. Like a... I know what you're gonna say.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rigottani?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's not what I thought you were gonna say. What am I thinking up? What are those really, really good stuff, things that are like pasta stuffed with like?

Barry Conrad
I'm not yucky. It's rigatoni. I know what you're talking about though. It's not, it's not rigatoni.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know if you do.

Barry Conrad
I do, it's like kind of squares that you kind of...

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, it's like small, nochi, nochi.

Barry Conrad
So, gnocchi. Did you say nochi? It's gnocchi. Oh, my gosh.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that was a no cheat. I'm going to let me let me play the pronunciation.

Barry Conrad
This is a moment, this is, I've never heard you say, it's gnocchi.

Melanie Avalon
I've always said nochi. Wait, let me play it. Oh, niyoki. I mean, hey, at least I didn't say good, good, good, good nochi.

Barry Conrad
You know what, actually what I was actually thinking of, I'm wrong. It's not what you're talking about.

It's ravioli, ravioli. That's what's like typically square or circular pastas or pasta filled with ricotta, spinach, meat, lobster. It's delicious.

Melanie Avalon
We know, I think ravioli must be more common here than Australia.

Barry Conrad
No. It's coming in Australia. It just was escaping me. I don't know why.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you're thinking of ravioli, I was thinking of naki.

Barry Conrad
Nochi, gnocchi, nochi.

Melanie Avalon
But now but but what we have is agnolotti and wild garlic. I Do like goat cheese and I do like garlic and I do like porcini, but I will not be eating that

Barry Conrad
He won't be having like a little morsel.

Melanie Avalon
Nope, I can't do the pasta. Okay, okay, now we're speaking my language. Halibut and asparagus. Yes, with asparagus, verjuice, and green oil.

Barry Conrad
It sounds really good and light as well. I do love asparagus.

Melanie Avalon
Halibut is, halibut is moderate. It's probably the high moderate side of mercury, but I will take one for the team and have it.

And then, ooh, next one. Steak asparagus, morel sauce, Argentinian loin, veal juice, asparagus, espuma. It's dairy-free, gluten-free. Okay, yes, steak. Yes, and I will be having it.

Barry Conrad
This menu is actually really good.

Melanie Avalon
It is good. Mine's going to take a lot of editing, but how will you have your steak prepared?

Barry Conrad
Medium rare, I know that you're going to go blue, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, which I don't know if we'll get to this question next week, but we have a question about this and I learned so much researching it

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to hear all the new data about it. I just got you, because you, Melanie has her steak blues.

So barely, basically throw it in the pan, take it out for five seconds later. That's how she likes it. That's like raw.

Melanie Avalon
Yup. And then, okay, dessert. Well, we can get both because would you get both of them or would you get one or the other? You can read them if you like, because you can have mine is the point.

Barry Conrad
I would have both. One of them is mango and coconut. So it's coconut, granita, pina colada, mango, flambé, egg, or blueberry and lemon, which is chocolate air, blueberry, sorbet, sponge cake. Oh yeah, that sounds really, really good.

Yum. Both of them sound delicious actually.

Melanie Avalon
Why do they come with egg, I'm confused.

Barry Conrad
Does it mean it's baked with, are they saying that maybe it's baked with egg or something like that? Because they both have it.

Yeah, I don't think the egg is on top of it. I think maybe it's the way the base is made or something like that. I'm guessing.

Melanie Avalon
like custard, maybe?

Barry Conrad
Yes, maybe.

Melanie Avalon
And then each pairing, okay, there's a wine pairing if you want to do it. And they're four ounce pours thoughtfully chosen to enhance the flavors of your meal and create a seamless journey throughout your dinner.

So I know we've talked about this before, but just to be super clear, when there's wine pairings, do you do the wine pairings or do you prefer to like pick what you're drinking?

Barry Conrad
I always prefer to pick what I'm drinking, but I am also a man of the land. So if I'm at a place and this is our special thing, I'm going to give it a go. But if I don't enjoy it as much, I'll get something else afterwards.

You know what I mean? As well. Yeah. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Always pick my own always, you know, I wonder if they have we you know what I'm kind of sad I should have waited until next week to do this because I think they open I think they open in three days They'll probably have the menu. They'll probably have the current menu up in three days Let me see if the wine menu is there

Barry Conrad
Actually, yeah, they should have a wine list, no? I'm sure, surely.

Melanie Avalon
I feel very confident that they will have a wine that I like, but I just love, I haven't, I have not seen something before where you, where there's a nightcap reservation. What time is it?

Let's see. So it's between 7.30 to 9. So I wonder if that's, you're just getting a drink then?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, or is it like a nightcap service where it's like several drinks or like a flight of, you know, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, nightcap, you're like speaking my language.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, me too. Just not as late as Mel and Evelyn, who's Mel and Evelyn's.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, here's an Instagram post from last year. It says, enjoy this special menu from 730 to 10 Tuesdays through Saturdays. And so I guess it's just like a, yeah, I guess it's just like a special tasting menu situation.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think so. I don't think it's one glass or something. I can't imagine, right?

Melanie Avalon
Probably not.

Barry Conrad
This sounds good though, this place.

Melanie Avalon
And then the pictures, it just looks really pretty.

Barry Conrad
It really does actually.

Melanie Avalon
So, yep. Awesome. Well, this was so, so lovely listeners. We hope you enjoyed your time with us.

We'd love to hear from you. Please, please submit your questions to us. You can email questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can also join our Facebook group, IF Biohackers, Intermittent Fasting plus Real Foods plus Life in that group. You can also ask questions. And then like I said, I post something every day to just talk about all the topics and all the things. And you can get the show notes for today's show at ifodcast.com slash episode 460. You can get all of the stuff that we like at ifodcast.com slash stuff we like. So yeah, I think that's all the things. I hope everybody has a great Valentine's Day.

Barry Conrad
Everybody have an awesome Valentine's Day. Thank you so much for joining us again and have an amazing week

Melanie Avalon
Wait, I have one last question for you before we go. With Valentine's Day, how far in advance do you make reservations? Are you like a last minute planner, or is it already reserved now in December?

Barry Conrad
I'm definitely not last minute because Valentine's Day reservations go like that. Like they really get scooped up.

You have to be, you have to get on your game. You have to be on your game. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Definitely a planner, but I'm never planning to have Valentine's with anybody. So if I were, I would.

Barry Conrad
It's possible in the future.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's just it's just hard when you don't know like, what the situation is going to be, then you could like, no, I'm the type of person last thing. I am the type of person like, when I am making an important reservation like that, I will make like three reservations at three different restaurants. I'll cancel in time, but I, I like to have options.

And then I want the other person to have options. And then what if like, yeah, so I usually make multiple reservations.

Barry Conrad
This is very interesting to know.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. So on that note, listeners, we hope you have a lovely Valentine's Day, and Barry, I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week!

Feb 02

#459 – Hyperlight Glasses, Transforming Your Light Exposure, The Problems With Blue Light Blocking Glasses, Fullerene C60, Luxury Eyewear, Healthy UV Exposure, Reducing Headaches & Anxiety, Changing Your Perception, And More!

Welcome to Episode 459 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

HYPERLIGHT:

Hyperlight goes way beyond typical blue light blockers and are a daily essential for modern life! Not only do they help regulate circadian rhythm and reduce eye strain and fatigue, they actually transform harmful junk light from screens and artificial lighting into beneficial light. Hyperlight Optics uses patented Swiss nanophotonic technology with Fullerene C60, which acts as a quantum light transformer. This biocompatible light supports physiological balance by optimally energizing biological structures at the cellular level. They come in myriad designs, and also look SUPER cool. (Prepare yourself for people to ask you where you got your glasses.) Get 10% off one pair of Hyperlight, 15% off two pairs, and 15% off all future purchases, with code Melanie10X at ⁠ifpodcast.com/hyperlight⁠

BIOPTIMIZERS

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 459 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment.

So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time. And get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 459 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I am here today with a very special guest about a very special topic that I've been talking about for years and years and years. And I have just experienced a whole nother level of this thing. So friends, we talk all the time on the show and I talk all the time about the importance of taking charge of your light exposure, regulating your circadian rhythm, dealing with the problems of artificial light that we're exposed to today and all the negative effects that it has on your health. So I have historically been wearing for over, I mean, a very long time, like over a decade, I've been trying to wear the concept, and I'm saying trying because this is before quote biohacking was a thing, but the concept of blue light blocking glasses. This was actually one of the first things I started doing in the whole quote biohacking sphere. And wearing glasses to not be exposed to artificial light all the time, especially in the evening has been without a doubt one of the most game-changing things I've ever done in my entire life. It is a complete non-negotiable. So that's my history there. So I was super excited because there's quite a few different companies on the market making glasses like this. I met, I'm trying to think how long ago it was now, but it was last year, I learned about this new company. Well, they weren't new, but they were new to me called Hyperlight. And so on first glance, I was like, oh, these are blue light blocking glasses, I'm very familiar with this. And then I realized it goes beyond that. So these glasses, which when I met the company, they were not yet in the US, they were just international. They integrate into their glasses something else I have talked a lot about, which is C60. So I've talked about C60 before, I've done some interviews on it. I've talked about it as a supplement. This is actually using this molecule, which we will talk about today on the show and integrating it into the glasses to actually not only deal with blue light, which we're gonna talk about that, but also transform the light.

Melanie Avalon
And I know that can sound a little woo woo and out there. There are so many studies that this company is involved in, Hyperlight, that prove this actually does work. I was reviewing the scientific literature prepping for the show and I was actually blown away. Like there's literally even a study talking about the Fibonacci sequence integrated into glasses and how it affects brainwaves. Like there's actual scientific literature on this.

And then on top of that, on top of that, I am blown away by the design of these glasses. They have so many options, anything you could think of, and we'll talk about the different options, but I wore them to the eudaimonia conference. I go to, I don't know which conference it was, to the eudaimonia conference and the harsh convention lighting. And I can't even tell you how many people walked up to me and wanted to know where I got these glasses because they are that amazing looking, just from like a style perspective. So I am so excited because Hyperlight has now officially launched in the US. And I am here with Sonja who works at the company and she is overseeing the US product launch. And she's, first of all, she's a fabulous human being and I'm so excited to be talking with her today. But she has all of the details about, you know, what is going on with these glasses in this company and why you guys should get a pair for yourselves now, for your friends and loved ones, all the things. So Sonja, thank you so much for being here. It's been such an honor to meet you and get to know you and to learn more about the company and I am obsessed with these glasses. So thank you so much for being here.

Sanja Trivunovic
Thank you Melanie, a pleasure is mine and I'm so happy that I had a chance to meet you and what I want to say is like definitely in business is the best and most valuable thing is the people you get a chance to meet so I'm grateful and thank you for everything and thank you for loving the glasses and thank you for you being the amazing human being and thank you for having me here.

Melanie Avalon
No, I go that right back at you and that actually made me think about when we first started emailing because, you know, I'm always like emailing a lot of brands, a lot of people and some people you can just tell like when you start emailing them like, oh, like I'm going to really enjoy talking to this person and you're just so awesome. Like we have a tendency to go on tangents and talk about, you know, lots of random stuff.

But in any case, so to get things started, what is your personal story with this company? So like how did you get involved with Hyperlite? Like what did you first think when you experienced the glasses? I'm just curious how, like what was your journey into what you're doing now overseeing the U.S. launch?

Sanja Trivunovic
Yeah, well, it's quite interesting the hyperlight optic glasses, we will talk about the heritage and how they were created, but I can say that it started because the company wanted to start launching in the US. So first of all, I didn't say I want to apologize in advance for my accent, I will try to do my best to do it good.

But yeah, it started that the company and the brand, they wanted to do the US launch and with my experience with the other brands and other products, I was happy to do it because of the glasses because I was like, okay, I believe in this product because once I tried the hyperlight glasses, I don't wear other glasses that I have. So yeah, that's the only thing because I believe in the product and it's super interesting and it's super interesting to educate people and to present something that is patented and no one has it and it gives you benefits to a better life. So yeah, simple as that.

Melanie Avalon
So before meeting the company, you were you wearing other like quote blue light blocking glasses or was this your first and I know we're going to talk about the idea of blue light blocking and maybe it's not just blue light blocking that we want to be doing, but were you doing anything wearing anything like that or was this your first exposure? No problem.

Sanja Trivunovic
Yeah, actually, I tried it a few times, but I was not a person who was wearing low light blocking glasses, nor I think I will ever be for probably a different reasons, not because they're bad, but I'm just not that type.

Melanie Avalon
Is it just about blue light blocking like like so what is the problem and the issues today with the light that we are exposed to and what what do we need to be blocking and not blocking like just what what's happening here well.

Sanja Trivunovic
Yeah, it's interesting to talk about this because we see on the internet a lot of things that actually I want to address also with you today. We are completely, hyperlight optics eyewear is something completely different than a blue light blockers. And the key difference is simple, but fundamental.

So standard blue light glasses block light, they eliminate the blue white lens and hyperlight optics transforms light. So with the fuller and C60 and that's the main difference. And it's not only during the night, so your circadian rhythm is damaged usually in the night, you know, because your brain, it's evening, but you watch it, your screen, your TV, your street lights, and your brain doesn't know is it night or day and that's perfectly clear, but what about for the rest of the day, when you wake up in your home, there is also light, there is not good, you go to the office, you go to the mall, airport, everywhere, everywhere you're on the screens, working computer, everywhere you go, there is a harsh light. So the main difference is because you can wear hyperlight optics eyewear from the morning to evening, the same pair. You can wear it while working on your screen. You can wear it by walking, running, driving till the bedtime and you can wear it in the sun because as you as well, also the brand. The point is that you can wear hyperlight eyewear also outdoor, which is not the case with the blue light blockers because they also block the good spectrum of the blue light. So yes, that's the simplest possible.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, so this is like such a key difference. And again, it was something that I was not at all aware of.

Because, like you're saying, I had had sort of a binary approach to, and I keep using the word blue light buying glasses, because that's the phrase that people are accustomed to. And that's historically what I've been using. But it sounds like so what you're saying is those glasses, pretty much like block blue light, which is good for not being exposed to the stimulus that would mess up our circadian rhythm. So like in the evening, you know, you don't want to beat that blue light exposure. But what you're saying is that, you know, we do need like a full exposure of light. And it's not so much about like blocking the blue as it is transforming the light from a harmful wavelength to a beneficial wavelength for our bodies. Is that what you're saying?

Sanja Trivunovic
Yes, exactly, exactly. So your, our glasses, hyperlight glasses are not blocking the lock, they're transforming it. So the full in C60 side of the lenses is transforming the light. It doesn't matter, is it, which kind of light, any artificial harsh life is transformed into the good, healthy life. Same as we love to say, wearing hyperlight eyewear is like wearable light therapy. So you have, from the morning you wake up to the evening, it's like you're receiving the light that is the best for you, that gives you your balance and that's the light in sunrise and sunset.

That's the most healthiest light. And also what is important to say when we speak about blue light blocking, we need to understand that not all blue light from screen is harmful. In fact, only a specific portion of the blue spectrum is considered problematic. And the potentially stressful part of the blue light is mainly in a high energy range that's between 380 and 420 nanometers. That's the sharp artificial blue light that can contribute to the visual fatigue and biological overstimulation. But we need to be fully aware of, and what I want to address that I believe and our team believes that is important up to the research we've done in the US market, where you can see the tests. For example, on the internet, so-called tests where they will say that blue light blocking glasses are only good, I mean, the strongest one, the red ones are only good if they eliminate completely, not only blue wavelengths, they eliminate blue color totally. So which is actually creating a new problems when blue light is completely blocked or eliminated, we can have a disordered color perception because screen no longer looks natural because we need to see the blue color. And then reduce visual clarity, confusing biological signals, unnatural viewing experience because it's not so logical for the human eye to look at the bright screen and receive no blood at all. So we need to be aware that not all blue light from the screens is bad. And what is more important, hyperlight optics is working with the light, not against it. And it's quite interesting the technology how actually C60 is transforming the light. So what I wanna say when you see those kinds of things on internet where people are saying, oh my God, my blue light blocking glasses, when I wear them, I see a blue color on the screen, but I wanna throw them away because apparently they're not working, it's not true, they're working, don't throw them away, please. You need to see the blue color, even with the blue light blocking glasses, you need to see some part of it. The main advantage is, especially for the people who are working as creatives, designers, developers, they need to see their screen, they need to see the clear colors. That's also one of the things that Hyperlight Eyewear is offering when we speak about the difference with the blue light blockers.

Melanie Avalon
I love this so much. What's interesting. I don't know why I hadn't really contemplated that until now.

I have mine on right now. So I'm like, I'm looking at my computer screen. Yeah, I can still see like, there's like the blue icons.

Sanja Trivunovic
Yes, of course, because it's normal, but believe me...

Melanie Avalon
Right. We would want to see blue, like blue is in the world. So yeah.

Sanja Trivunovic
our science team, it was very surprising because we saw, you know, that on the internet people are saying like, you have like three circles and like your blue light blocking glasses are not working if you don't see the blue color. It's not true.

So people like it's disturbing in the comments like when people started like, oh my god, I'm gonna throw them away, which one I should buy. It's totally disturbing that people really think that it's normal that you eliminate blue color because it's not normal that you're losing color perception if you don't see the the full spectrum of colors and basically the whole colors that we see on screen the, you know, from the spectrum you have three basic colors. You have red, you have yellow, you have blue, you know, you need to see them so you would have a, you will have a, you know, perception and so yeah it's

Melanie Avalon
It's interesting. I mean, not to harp on it, but I'm just thinking about it practically.

It makes sense. It makes sense if you just think about it that in the world there's clearly all this artificial light, which is doing damage to us, and yet the color blue in and of itself would not be something bad for us when people are walking through the world as hunter-gatherers. It's not like looking at something blue as bad, so that completely just makes sense from a practical standpoint.

Sanja Trivunovic
Exactly, exactly, exactly. So yeah, please, people don't throw away your blue light blocking glasses, whichever brand you have, because they probably work perfectly and they don't need to eliminate the blue color.

So it's not all the blue color from the, from the screen that, especially with hyperlights, you don't even, you know, you don't even need to worry about this because it's going to be transformed into a healthy life.

Melanie Avalon
I know because I struggle with, because I know we've been talking about how the role of education, and I just think it's so important to educate people on what they can do best to take charge of their life and optimize their body and all the things. And the struggle I have here with talking about this is people are very familiar with taking charge of their light exposure.

And we all use this term, blue light blocking glasses, because that's historically what it's been. So I like using the term to get people familiar with what we're talking about, but then it's like, it's different. Like, we need a new term, like a more general term for these. What would you call them? Like, besides hyperlight? Like, like what category of glasses would you call them? Like, like transforming glasses, I guess? You said something earlier, light therapy glasses. It's a non-existing category.

Sanja Trivunovic
We are alone. I know. We got to make it up. Yeah.

What we love to call it, it's like a wearable technology, wearable light therapy. Wearable light therapy, yeah. Yeah, it could be like this, but definitely, yeah, those are the only glasses in the world that actually transform light. And it's fascinating the technology behind that and how C60 fullerene is. It should be explored more and used more because it has so many benefits in light and also in the structure of the human body. So, yeah, maybe we can be, you know, the first glasses that are transforming light.

Melanie Avalon
wearable light therapy, yes.

Sanja Trivunovic
wearable eye therapy. That's actually a good one, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I was fascinated because like I said, I was pretty familiar with C60, which actually the molecule itself won a Nobel Prize. But historically, the experience I'd had with it was as a supplement.

It's a fascinating molecule. It actually had one of the, from a supplement perspective, it had one of the longest, like it was a rodent study, but it showed the longest extension of lifespan. I think of like any study and that was in rodents, but its structure is like just really unique. It's actually similar to the structure. I mean, I think it is the structure of people know like the Epcot ball in Disney World. That's what it, that's like the structure that it is. So that compound, they actually, it's literally in the lenses of these glasses and then it, that's how it transforms the light.

Sanja Trivunovic
C60 is actually a perfectly symmetrical molecule, which is made of 60 carbon atoms, and it looks like a soccer ball. Maybe people will understand it better.

Also, what is interesting, graphite and diamond are also important forms of carbon. A fun fact is that the Fuller and C60 is much more expensive than diamond, and they're in the same group. I think it's

Melanie Avalon
harder than diamonds too. Definitely. So it's in the lens, like it's literally in the lens. Yes.

Sanja Trivunovic
it's in the lens. We have eight layers and each glasses they have infused, they're infused with the fuller NC-16 molecule. And what is interesting is that, how I love to say it so the people could understand, the molecule is all the time live in the lenses. It's twisting. It's like a flicker and it's twisting more than 80 billions times per second. And that's how it's actually light, it's transformed.

So when you have a harsh direct straight light going to your eyes, it comes to the lenses and then lenses absorb that light and then transform it into the form of a carbon molecule fuller in C-60. So direct harsh lives gets a shape of a carbon fuller in C-60 and that's a shape that is arranged in pectagons and hexagons. And that's actually the most interesting relationship with C-60 and the light. So yeah, it has the ability to absorb photons, that's light energy, more efficiently and also a natural capacity to redistribute that energy evenly. So yeah, and the fuller in C-60 is completely stable so it cannot be disrupted by any light. So every time any kind of light goes through the fuller in C-60, it will always be and stay in the form of carbon, actually that soccer ball. And the other thing is also not only connection with the light but also connection with the human body because the behavior of C-60 aligns with the biological systems. Scientific research shows that C-60 acts as one of the most powerful known antioxidants and help actually protect cells from oxidative stress, which is a key driver of aging and cellular damage, which is actually we need that a lot today. And the simple things however I would say is C-60 has a form and a structure of a perfectly balanced human body. So that's the connection of C-60 and our organism.

So yeah, it's pretty interesting and that's why C-60 is also studied in photophysics, photomedicine, solar and light-based technologies.

Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. So basically it's transforming light like chaotic forms of light into a structured ordered form of light that is balanced and supports the body. And like I said, I've done a deep dive into it from a supplement perspective and the studies are really interesting on, like you said, that it's antioxidant potential, how it supports fighting oxidative stress in the body. And like I said, really impressive studies on longevity. So yeah, this is all just completely fascinating.

I will just say that from like a user experience perspective, you really feel like I just feel better wearing them. Like it makes me feel me personally, and I'm sure everybody reacts differently, but makes me feel calmer. Like I said, I wore them all at the Unimonia conference. And then I wore them in the airport because the airport lighting is not the best. And it's really just like a really amazing experience. And I had a lot of people in the like, I love your glasses. Because like I said, these, the style of these are, you guys make so many styles, which must be really fun. How is the, again, I'm going back to the word blue light blocking glasses, but what people are accustomed to, they're not usually accustomed like a ton of choices or not ones that look like stylish and cool. You guys have so many different categories, so many different types. So do you have a favorite? Oh, and I have some practical questions about because you market them online. Some say that they're for indoors. Some say they're for outdoors. And I remember asking you about this because I was really alert by the Eclipse blue model, which is like really futuristic and really cool. And it said though, that it was for outdoors. And I was like, can I wear this indoors? So basically, what are the different types with indoor versus outdoors? And you mentioned earlier, like sunlight and natural light. So do these block UV? What is the role of UV? So those two different questions. So I guess first, all the different styles, is the catalog constantly evolving? Or how are the designs made? Well, yeah.

Sanja Trivunovic
the catalog is constantly evolving and every year we are launching new models. So yes, we have models that are five or six years in portfolio and each year we're launching the new ones. It's important.

We want to feel good and that's the vision of the brand and the whole company over the decades. It's that, yeah, we want to feel good. We want to be the best version of ourselves, but we also want to look good because we are all visual creatures. So that's why Hyper Light glasses are also stylish and yes, you can wear them. That's actually the whole point of the brand. You can wear them anywhere, anytime and any person can wear it. It's not like, you know, how old are you? What is your job? What is your style? Anyone can wear it. You can even wear it to the super classy events, you know, you can wear it while, you know, sitting in your home and scrolling on your phone, running. So yeah, that's the point. So we want to be super healthy, innovative. We want to give a solution to the problem that is obviously present, but also we want to give people an option to look nice in those glasses and they're super lightweight, especially the ones that are, you know, titanium and stainless steel. So they're super lightweight. It's like you don't feel when you're wearing them and especially it's important also for driving because that's the difference. You feel the difference while you're driving, you know, you're less tired, which is super important to feel, you know, to feel, you know, focused and have a concentration while you're, you know, going on a trip.

And also what is important that each pair of glasses, you know, side frames, they're built like this that you can see the dandangle perfectly. And we all know that with sunglasses, any type of sunglasses, sometimes you can wear them or you need to lift them up because you don't see the dandangle, which is actually the problem. So yeah, you can wear them anywhere, anytime, and any person can wear it.

Melanie Avalon
some clarifying questions there. So my understanding when some, cause I guess on the Amazon page, I don't think they, oh, okay. They say like indoors and outdoors for all of them.

On the, cause on the main Hyperlite website, some were saying indoors and some were saying outdoors, but that was, is that because like the out, the quote outdoor ones, they have like a reflective glare on the outside so people can't see your eyes. So they look like outdoor glasses compared to like indoor glasses where you can see through them and like see the person's eyes. Well, actually.

Sanja Trivunovic
Actually, indoor and outdoor glasses, or we can call them universal, they can actually be worn inside and outside. The technology is completely the same. It's only going to be when you watch your screen and when you're inside, it's going to be a little bit lighter, so it's more comfortable. For the outdoor models, which of course can be worn inside, it's only preferences, but they offer better protection in some bright conditions. For example, we have polarized and mirror reflection lenses, where actually, yeah, people can see your eyes, so the technology is the same. Everything is the same, only because the indoor and outdoor models are more specific for some bright conditions.

If you're skiing, if you're somewhere on the mountain where it's very bright or the sun is so strong, it's going to be probably more comfortable. If you're spending a lot of time outside, it's maybe better to have an outdoor model. Light is still transforming, the technology is the same, but it's maybe going to be better for your eyes if the lenses have that one more coat polarized or like a mirror reflection. So that's the only difference, and indoor-outdoor lenses with the amber tinted lenses, they can be used anywhere, anytime, even during the night, that's the main difference.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. And so, do they block UV?

Sanja Trivunovic
Actually, they're transforming UV. So that's the thing.

So because UV light doesn't help regulate circadian rhythm, mood or focus. So UV light is something that the eyes need protection from. And hyperlight optics, yes, they're offering full IV protection, but also they're transforming it. So when you're outside, you're, for example, at the beach and you want a healthy light, right? But the sunglasses, we will not talk about the blue light glasses here because you cannot obviously wear them outside. But if we talk about the regular sunglasses, they're blocking everything. They're blocking the healthy spectrum of the sunlight and they're blocking UV rays. And the hyperlight keeps the healthy sunlight and UV lights are transformed also in a healthy sunlight. So that's also basically the difference. Yes, you're totally fully protected, but not only protected, but your healthy sunlight is still reaching your mind and body.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Yeah, it's interesting.

So I completely forgot about this, but I got LASIK eye surgery. When did I get that? A few years ago, maybe four years ago or so. And the reason, I mean, there's a lot of reasons I wanted to get it. The thing that like sold me and I was like, I'm going to get this done is I was doing an interview and I don't remember who I was interviewing, but the topic came up about like what people wearing contact lenses and how that actually kept like blocked or that actually kept certain light from getting into your eyes like 24 seven and how your eyes actually like need light. So it sounds like these glasses are like the perfect solution to letting you be around light that could be problematic, including quote UV, including blue light, including all the things and just transforming it into the light that best supports your body. I mean, I just want to wear these 24 seven. Yes.

Sanja Trivunovic
Yes, but it is, and you know what's the most important when we speak about the hyperlight? Yeah, we can speak about the technology, we can speak about the rewards, we can speak that is born from a medical device therapy that is in company's portfolio for 30 years. But I think the most priceless thing is experience.

So when people try it, they don't want to take it off. And that's the thing because, yeah, you feel better, you're definitely feeling better. And you're right for the contact lenses. They're definitely blocking the light that is necessary for us. And yeah, and I would say that definitely people like you and people like us and everyone that has an influence need to start saying people like, don't be afraid of the sun, please. So don't go out every day so dead sun without the glasses or with the hyperlight. So yeah, but the experience is something that is most valuable when you see the person like instant happiness or how the people call them in Europe are people that are wearing them. They call them happy glasses. Yeah, call them happy glasses, like, oh, let me put on my happy glasses, because it's everything, this is more clear.

Melanie Avalon
That's so funny. Yeah.

And it's so interesting to me that it's that you guys are, you know, just now launching or newer to the US. And I remember when I was at the conference, I was with my friend Ian Clark from activation products. And so this is not endorsement from him. But I was wearing them. And he was like, Oh, those are hyper light. And he was like, Yeah, I've he's like, I've been using those for like, years from Europe. And they're like the most amazing thing. And I was like, I was like, Okay, this is amazing, like getting the endorsements from the people who, who really know.

And so what are your favorite models? Which one? What ones do you wear?

Sanja Trivunovic
Oh, I have many, that's the advantage. Now at the moment, I'm wearing zero G model. It's like a pilot model. And I also love, for example, aviators are probably my everyday model.

And which one from the round ones, maybe probably the lightest model. It's like you don't feel it, that you have it. It's astral green, they're round. So yeah, we have for everyone. If you wanna aviator style, pilot style, or you wanna round glasses, or you wanna rectangle, oversize. Yeah, so, but mine's I think zero G and aviators. I'm in that pilot mode.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I am so like I said the the blue ones the I call them blue but they're they're not really blue But the eclipse the eclipse blue.

Yeah, so right now I have on the aviator reds Which these are really really great for being indoors like and just like wearing at the computer and all the things I really like them and like I said the and then the ones I wore at the conference I wore the the zebra the blue ones the eclipse blue and then also the the rounder ones

Sanja Trivunovic
Tulum Silver, I think you have the Tulum Silver. Yeah, they're the most universal ones, like they suit everyone.

Melanie Avalon
It's funny. So I was going to wear Talium Silver. Is that how you say it? I was going to wear that primarily indoors because it is one where you can like see through to your eyes. But I was just so obsessed, obsessed with the eclipse blue ones. But I ended up wearing them like the majority of the time because they look so cool.

I can't even tell you how many people came up to me and commented. And this is like at a biohacking conference where people are very like accustomed and used to seeing people wearing glasses. But people were like coming up left or right. I mean, like, where did you get those? Like, and then I had to tell them and then I and then I would tell them like, oh, but these are not just, you know, your normal blue light blocking glasses. Like they have C60 and and all the things. So it's been really amazing. Another practical question. If people have prescription glasses, can they still wear these glasses? Or how would that work?

Sanja Trivunovic
We don't have that option now in the US, but we have it in the Europe. So unfortunately, yeah, of course, if you have like, you need to wear prescription glasses, of course there is no issue to, wait, stop Melanie.

How do you mean if they wear prescription glasses?

Melanie Avalon
I was wondering, so like, can you get these in prescription?

Sanja Trivunovic
I'm not at the moment in the U.S., but in Europe, yes, we have it. But in Europe, you can, though? Yeah, we have it in Europe. Like you can do it in prescription or any model, you can even choose the colors. So we have a lot of options.

But in the U.S., we don't have it.

Melanie Avalon
hopefully fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.

Sanja Trivunovic
We have actually one model, actually two models with the different lenses that they have a clip on. So yes, you can buy glasses where you have your prescription and just make a clip on like a magnet and there you go.

You have your prescription lenses and the full-on C60 lenses. So at the moment, that's what we offer in the US, although in Europe, yes, we are pretty good in that optical, you know, sense like offering full service of prescription lenses with the full-on C60, but hopefully we'll have it in the US. As well for the kids, it's also an important part of hyperlight portfolio.

Melanie Avalon
Fingers crossed for that. And the clip-on ones, are those the ones in the listings where they show the clear glasses behind and then they show the ones on top? Those are the clip-on ones.

Sanja Trivunovic
Exactly, exactly. Those are the ones.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Well, I will say these friends make, first of all, get a pair for yourself. And like I said, there's so many, so many different options and styles. So you can definitely find something that that works for you and it will transform your life. You will want to wear them 24 seven, you will be able to, like we were saying, actually see all the colors. You won't be like blocking all the blue. So you can see all the colors, you'll feel the difference. It's really just amazing.

And they make really, really great gifts. So definitely stock up on them for gifts. And you guys are so kind. Hyperlight is so kind. We have a discount code for everybody. So here are the details. If you go to if podcast.com slash hyperlight, so that's H Y P E R L I G H T that will redirect to their Amazon store. And there you can use the coupon code Melanie 10 X. So that's M E L A N I E 10 X at checkout. And that will get you. So here's the deal. It'll get you 10% off one pair, 15% off two pairs, which I highly recommend because definitely get two pairs for yourself or for other people, for friends, family. And then also once you buy one pair, you will get 15% off ongoing if you buy more pairs in the future. So definitely take advantage of this. That will give you a massive discount. So again, go to if podcast.com slash hyperlight, use the coupon code Melanie 10 X to get 10% off one pair, 15% off two pairs and 15% off pairs after that. So yeah, thank you, Sonya so much for that. And thank you for everything that you're doing with this company. What are you most excited about with the future of this company, especially now that you've, you know, are launching and have launched in the US?

Sanja Trivunovic
Well, definitely building a community around hyperlight optics and, you know, just to similar people. And yeah, that's it.

And because we want to show that we are not just brands like we're life philosophy and same like hyperlight glasses are offering, you know, a better perception to the world actually, which is quite important in life to have the right perception on the way how you look at things in life and you will live better. That's how in the other terms, hyperlight optics are offering a definitely better perception of what you see. So yeah, your life will definitely get a lot of nicer with the view of the hyperlight glasses. You will feel better and feel the difference. That's no doubt for that. So yeah, building a community is something that I'm looking forward to it. And thank you for being part of this.

It's my pleasure. It's our pleasure.

Melanie Avalon
No, thank you for thinking of me. And I just realized something that I didn't mention about them. Like, I'm saying that they look cool and everything. They also, the quality is so luxurious.

Like, you know, you know how people really like their like really fancy sunglasses that are like really bougie and everything? Like these are so well made. So like the material is just absolutely stunning. Like they're definitely like luxury glasses. And so all of that said, in addition to being these incredible luxury glasses, it takes care of the issue that some people might have where they need multiple pairs of glasses throughout the day. So especially if they're wearing traditional light blocking glasses, they might have a pair for inside. They might have like a darker pair that they wear at night. And they have like a pair that they wear outside for UV. And so, you know, they have to have these multiple pairs of glasses. And while you guys do have tons of styles and so, you know, feel free to go crazy and get all the different styles, you also can just have one pair. And because it's transforming light, like that's what it does. You can just wear that pair, that pair anywhere, like all day. It'll it'll address stuff in the morning. It'll address the stuff in the afternoon, the evening events inside, outside.

So yeah, that's another really great thing that I love about this. So again, friends, go to if podcast dot com slash hyperlight. Use the coupon code Melanie 10 X to get 10 percent off one order, 15 percent off two or more ongoing. So, Sonya, thank you so much. Hopefully we can meet at a conference here this year. I know you're not a planner, but you're working on it with your new year's goals.

Sanja Trivunovic
working on it and I feel so sorry because people now that are listening to your podcast can't actually hear our usual conversation. I think that would be quite interesting to hear how you and me are communicating but okay and I hope we will see.

I hope I will manage to plan like you so I hope we will see soon in the U.S. and prepare some great stuff about the brand and about the community so yeah thank you for everything.

Melanie Avalon
No, you're welcome. No, no, just just like a teaser or just like to let listeners in a little bit a little bit on what we're talking about. So Sonia and I have been talking about how we're we are complete opposites when it comes to being planners or not. Like I I plan everything. It's how I like feel good about my life. It's how I like anticipate things with happiness. And like I like live by my calendar and planning. And Sonia is like was the anti planner, not about planning, but but now she's trying it as her New Year's resolution. So yay, small, small, I know, baby steps, baby steps.

Yeah. So thank you so, so much, Sonia. We'll have to have you on again in the future. Can't wait to meet you in her life. And I can't wait for listeners to try hyperlight. So thank you so much for all that you do. Thank you for everything. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Jan 26

#458 – Special Guest Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, The Forever Strong Playbook, How To Get Enough Protein, Intermittent Fasting & Training, The Benefits Of Friction & Stress, The New Dietary Guidelines, HIIT, SIT, & Resistance Training, Mindset & Finding Your Why, Meatless Monday Problems, Supporting Muscle Protein Synthesis, And More!

Welcome to Episode 458 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, board-certified, fellowship-trained physician and founder of Muscle-Centric Medicine®
Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is an accomplished physician and the New York Times bestselling author of FOREVER STRONG: A New, Science-Based Strategy for Aging Well and author of upcoming book, The Forever Strong PLAYBOOK, releasing on January 27, 2026.
Her groundbreaking Muscle-Centric Medicine® approach places muscle at the center of disease prevention, metabolic health, and true vitality. And while she works with and trains elite athletes, military operatives, and public figures, she's equally focused on building strength and resilience at home, raising two young children while actively living her philosophy with her husband, a retired Navy SEAL.
Dr. Lyon's educational and research background includes dual clinical fellowships in geriatrics and nutritional sciences at Washington University, along with undergraduate training in nutritional sciences at the University of Illinois. A highly sought-after educator and consultant, she is an authority in the practical application of protein types and levels for health, performance, aging, and disease prevention.

Website | IG | YT

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

Get $400+ worth of bonuses at https://drgabriellelyon.com/playbook/

BIOPTIMIZERS

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 458 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 458 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I am here with the most special guest ever. Honestly, probably one of the most special guest in the show as well. But this woman is a legend, a legend in the world of health, especially when it comes to protein intake and building muscle and supporting your ultimate longevity. That is Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, a stunning, beautiful human being. I've had her on the show before for her work in general, as well as her New York Times bestselling book Forever Strong. And so when I found out that she was releasing the Forever Strong Playbook, I was overwhelmingly excited to dive into it and have her back. And friends, oh my goodness, get this book now. So when this episode comes out, it will be releasing tomorrow. So it's very likely that it's on the shelves when you're listening to this. So get it now. It will answer all the questions you ever had about topics that we talk about all the time on this show, which is how do you get enough protein? How do you structure your diet? How do you support your muscle? How do you have a muscle-centric lifestyle? And then not only that, how do you recover? How do you sleep? How do you change your mindset? I was talking with Gabrielle right before this, and it was perfect timing because Barry Conrad, the normal co-host of this show, sent me some questions for her. And it's funny because the first question he sent me, literally, I don't think he planned this because he hasn't read the Forever Strong Playbook. This is what the playbook answers. So his question was, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, you often say that skeletal muscle is the organ of longevity. If muscle truly is the currency of longevity, what does a muscle-first lifestyle actually look like day to day, not just in the gym, but in how someone eats, recovers, and structures their life?

Melanie Avalon
Friends, that is literally what this book talks about. We have so many things to talk about. I'm just so honored to be here.

And also just thank you for what you do because, honestly, especially when it comes to women, women have been very siloed a bit from the medical literature, the scientific literature, for so long. And you're really the person who brought to the common culture world the importance of protein and supporting muscle and all the things. So I can't thank you enough for all that you're doing and your time, and thank you for being here.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Melanie, it is such an amazing privilege truly. I was thrilled to share this book with you and I am very grateful for your support. I do not take it lightly.

And as I was, we were chatting offline and I was reflecting on where we are in the space. The first book, Forever Strong, really was a manifesto. It talks all about the science, where it is, where it was, potentially where it's going. And this book, the playbook, this book was the book I originally wished I could write. And it is a call to arms. It has an ethos. We talk about muscle and we talk about protein. You know, we talk about building a better mind and body, but what we're really talking about is building stronger, more resilient humans.

Melanie Avalon
I love that. That was one of the things I was going to ask you about and comment on because it's always interesting when you're writing a book or having a project like this.

How do you organize the content? What order do you put it in? What do you lead with? And the book leads with that. You make this beautiful statement about muscle being a metaphor for life. I was like, oh, well, and the importance of ethos and finding your why. When you work with clients and stuff, do you lead with that as well? The importance of the mindset and the why and what this all means like esoterically and philosophically.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Absolutely. And I want to share with you why. No pun intended. There is a common narrative in our society. And it really is that things should be easy, that we should take a warm bubble bath and that when things get quote, stressful, or hard, check out, become distracted, scroll on social media, do a number of things, rather than answering the question for themselves and reorienting themselves to doing the harder thing.

Because when you lean in to do the harder thing, life becomes so much easier. All of them, right? All of the chasing and all of the distractions, that is what makes a very difficult life. Also running away from things that are hard. And understanding that it's normal for things to be challenging. And the idea that we have one word to define the death of a loved one, a breakup, a sickness, going to the DMV, or, you know, I have two little kids, kids spilling on a white sofa. The one word we have for that is stress. One word to define millions of things. And that's, quite frankly, it's inaccurate and incorrect. But when we reorient ourselves to why we do hard things, what stress truly means and start thinking for ourselves, and think in a way that moves the needle forward, because ultimately, the better we become, the better the people around us become. And that is absolutely a question that I ask all of my patients. I still see patients at Strong Medical. We have our head doctor, Dr. Lisa, who is truly extraordinary. But we expect things to be challenging. And we also know that you can get through it, and you can become better and more resilient on the other side.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love this so much and some thoughts there. One, I love when I read a book and then something from it really trickles into my daily life and I like it pops up consistently and what you just said from what I read in your book pops into my life all the time now. Like just like little minute decisions throughout the day where you know it's a moment of like doing the slightly more challenging thing versus not. I'm like, what would Gabrielle do? You know, lean into the stress. I also notice it a lot.

One of the things you talk about in the book is all of these different ways that you can challenge yourself daily in life, like basically turning daily life into training and into challenges. And that's something not to the breadth of all of the examples that you give in the book, but it's something I've done historically, especially with like carrying heavy things in life and like wearing weights to the store and, you know, not using a shopping card and, you know, all of that stuff. And it's so interesting, like you said about how conditioned we are not to be that way. And again, coming back to being a woman, I think this is part of it. I cannot tell you how many times because one of my like weekly errand thing is I go to Costco and I buy a really shocking amount, large amount of cucumbers. Like we're talking, it's a lot to carry basically. And I can't even tell you every time I go in, I have to prep myself because especially men will come up and be like, like, are you sure you can carry that? I'm like, yes, I'm fine. And they'll be like, are you sure you don't want a car? And literally, I'm like, I'm fine. Yeah. And but then they'll be like, are you short? Like they can't let go of the fact that maybe I want to be carrying heavy things. It's just interesting how it's so saturated in society.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I really appreciate that you're saying that. I also am working on my third book, which is a book about women by me, which I am a woman. And it really shapes that up nicely because through the lens of doing hard things and through the lens of expecting things to be hard and understanding that we have to be very discerning of our thoughts because the thoughts, recognizing that if a thought is relevant or not, we'll then inform our next right action. Discernment comes first.

After discernment is the next right action. And then comes discipline. And then as Jaco Willink always says, there's freedom in that, discipline equals freedom. But there are a series of steps that we have to become very aware of taking so that we ultimately can live the life that we choose rather than go on autopilot. And part of the beginning of the book is it's unusual because a lot of the conversation around friction and doing hard things is solely physical, but there's a million different ways to do things that purposefully create friction in one's life. And friction is that kind of annoying feeling that allows you to move past whatever it is.

I'll give you an example. One way to create friction is if you flip a coin, as you get to go to Starbucks and get the coffee that you love, and maybe it's not Starbucks, you pick it, okay, you know what? As you get to go to Costco and get the cucumbers, tails you down. When you imagine you do that five days in a row and every day you picked the opposite and you weren't able to go, it would be, it's not life changing, but it would be really annoying. And then by the sixth time, you're probably like, you know, it's not really that annoying anymore. When the little things that bother us have less hold over our lives, then things become much more steady and we have a lot more emotional agility, meaning you can move through things very quickly. And that ultimately allows, and people are thinking, well, what does this have to do about a muscle-centric lifestyle? Well, you know, I graduated med school in 2006. I've seen thousands and thousands of patients with hundreds of health and wellness books on their shelf. And the question is, what's the disconnect between actually taking action versus getting more information? And the difference is understanding and being inspired and also understanding the why that you are doing something. And that's how you close the gap because strength is, it's not a luxury, it's a responsibility.

And if we look at the data and you're really great at covering all this stuff, if roughly 70% or more of Americans aren't meeting their daily recommendation for exercise or 73% are either overweight or obese or struggling with obesity, then the conversation becomes very real.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, there's so much here. And I was just thinking how like those stats are really shocking. And then I was thinking about how in the book, I realized it's probably even worse than I thought, because you pointed out, for example, like I always thought standing was like the antidote to sitting. But I learned in your book that you actually have to be moving, like just standing actually doesn't do it. And I was like, okay, like even that wasn't doing what I thought.

Yeah, we're just in such a different lifestyle today from how we used to be. I'm really curious because you talk about how when you're writing the book, you were pregnant, right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
The first book I was pregnant the second, you know what? I can't remember. No, I was not pregnant with this book. Nope

Melanie Avalon
only the first one. Okay, the first one. Well, either way, with your pregnancies, very random, tangent whole question. I'm just really curious.

Because I asked for questions from listeners for you and we got a lot of questions about protein intake and what if they don't want to eat this much meat and things like that. And I was thinking, did you get changes in your cravings? Did you ever get a meat aversion? Totally.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Actually, it was hilarious. I actually had major food inversion. I also had hyperemesis gravitum. I threw up probably all day long for the entire pregnancy. I was so sick the whole pregnancy, and I couldn't smell stuff. It was really bad.

The way around it was I never forced my body to eat any of the things that I couldn't stomach. Also, I used protein shakes. It was all I could get down, and I was okay with it, and I was okay with it.

Melanie Avalon
Would that be an example where you could have leaned into the hard thing and ate the food?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
No, no, you can't you'll say no, no, no, you can't because you're you're literally throwing up But you know at the time my husband was active duty and I was pregnant and alone in new york city Commuting on the subway living in a tiny little studio It was hard. It was hard being pregnant and alone in new york city commuting from downtown uptown multiple times a week

Melanie Avalon
Wow, I feel like the pregnancy experience is just I mean if we're talking about doing hard challenging things it like it is just that incarnate on a human being

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
How did I train? I trained throughout the whole pregnancy. I brought a barf bag with me. I would do a set and I'd throw up.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. That's motivating.

So it is possible. Okay. So many different weight like directions we could go here. Question about when you work with clients one-on-one, I'm assuming that, and you mentioned, you know, working with one of your clients in the book. I think it was at Danica Patrick, I think. You know, you have to individually work with people and like tailor things to their lifestyle and, you know, whatever it may be. So when you're writing a book for everybody, like the foundational playbook, how do you, how do you do that? Like, is that difficult to make it so that, you know, everybody could make it work for them?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Actually it wasn't because there are fundamental things that we all have to do. And that's really what I put in. I mean, this book is for most people. It doesn't matter how advanced in health and wellness you are or how new you are to training or any of those things.

There are protocols for hot and cold, prehab type exercises, a ton of recipes and nutrition. All of this stuff, it doesn't matter where anyone is in their journey. It's all fundamental behaviors, how to think. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It actually wasn't. I'm glad that you provide so many really specific examples of things that people can do with all the things.

So a question about muscle in general, because you have a section where you talk about the new versus the old muscle science. How has our understanding of how muscle maintenance and growth happens, how has that changed? And then also a similar related question just with the science. Because like I mentioned at the beginning, a lot of the science and studies are done in men. Does muscle science, like just pure muscle science, does it translate horizontally, equally from men to women?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
That's a great question. Actually, I'm going to start there. The majority of the data from what I have read and my understanding is that skeletal muscle, there's skeletal muscle, there's cardiac muscle, and there's smooth muscle. Smooth muscle is around arteries, is also in the uterus. Cardiac muscle is the obvious in the heart. And then skeletal muscle, which is striated muscle under our voluntary control. And the majority of that type of muscle, there's type one and type two muscle fibers just to simplify it. They are largely informed and they are largely existent in the body based upon training. For example, the more heavy training you do, the more type two muscle fibers we're going to have. The more endurance type activity you do, the more type one muscle fibers you're going to have. There might be some variation in women having a slightly higher percentage of one or the other, but in the totality of does this really make a difference, it doesn't. For example, women might require a tiny, a little bit more volume or maybe they're better at fat oxidation. And we say this, but we have to really quantify it and when you look at the big picture, how much does that actually play into changing training stimulus and oxidation overall? It doesn't, right? It doesn't. So the muscle fiber, I think it's safe to say is largely dependent on genetics and training stimulus. So that's the first answer.

It's not particularly primarily a sex difference.

Melanie Avalon
and then for the change in how we understand muscle growth.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Well, this is really interesting because the idea that the old thinking was that it was damaged to the tissue and that was the primary driver, but what we know now is that it's really mechanical tension, that it really requires an input to drive muscle growth. So there is mechanical tension followed by a recovery period, which I think that we're becoming more aware of its importance, and this truly is rest, recovery, eating appropriately as an individual ages to, depending on their activity, really augment protein turnover.

Because if we think about what changes as we age, well, almost everything changes as we age, but particularly in muscle and what changes in muscle as we age, is muscle becomes less efficient at turning over. It becomes less efficient at this repair and recovery mechanisms. And the way that we overcome that is through, number one, enough dietary protein to meet the needs of the bodies, the amino acid needs of the body. And essentially, there is a compound effect with resistance training and the utilization of dietary protein and or essential amino acids. And we are becoming more and more attuned to this, especially because of the use of GLP1s. The use of GLP1, the various GLP1s, they will allow an individual to lose anywhere from 14% to 24% their body weight over a period of time, but not all of that is fat tissue, you know, a portion of that is also muscle. And so we just have to become very aware that we protect muscle at all costs and that we understand that more mature muscle can function like younger muscle if it has the appropriate stimulus and the appropriate recovery tools, primarily nutrients like essential amino acids and the stimulus of exercise.

Melanie Avalon
And so with the GLPs, for example, is that something where, because I know when they first came out, there was a lot of backlash, and I guess there still is, about people, like you said, losing a lot of weight but losing it primarily for muscle. Do you think if done correctly, quote, correctly, like with a high protein diet, that people can maintain muscle with that severe weight loss?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Absolutely. And you don't also have to go as extreme, as is required. Meaning, let me reframe this a different way. Right now, when someone goes on a GOP one, if they use traditional pharmacology dosing, as opposed to compounding dosing, compounded dosing, which allows for, say, more of a microdose, then the very robust dosing schedule that comes from a brand name, can have a more rapid weight loss, which makes sense, right? You're accelerating the dosing schedule, or you're doing it as these things are being prescribed, versus using a microdose, which would be a fraction of these GOP ones. We use these GOP ones all the time in clinic. I think they're absolutely amazing and extraordinary. So it's something to note, and they can be used, they're here to stay, and they are the way of the future, for sure.

And one of the other things I think is really fascinating is we talk a lot about body fat percentage, but I think body fat percentage is almost irrelevant. And I think that we're going to start focusing more on something called IMAT, which is intermuscular adipose tissue. And it's the adipose tissue, it's like the fat that is interspersed between muscle fibers or muscle groups. And it's really strongly associated with insulin resistance and muscular dysfunction in people with metabolic disease or people with type two diabetes or obesity. And this IMAT can actually aggravate metabolic disorders, obesity-related metabolism disorders. And this is, again, this is fat that is in the muscle tissue. And we don't really measure that routinely. That's where I think we're really going, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Is that related at all? Cause I know we hear about like the athletes paradox and you know, having fat in the muscle, but turning it over and using it for fuel.

So is that fat within the actual like muscle cells or is it like where, or is it between cells like where, where?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
So it's between muscle fibers or myofibrils or muscle groups. And that's typically where it's found.

There is something called athlete's paradox in which there is fat that is closer to mitochondria and it's used for energy. But on that is, it is again, it's this fat that expands between muscle fibers or adjacent groups. And you can think about and this is, it's distinct from like an accumulation of lipids within myofibrils. So there's intramuscular lipids. And these are often used for, you know, depending on the athlete can be used for energy. And then the inter and again, this nuances, the nuances don't really matter because no one's thinking, okay, well, is it intramuscular fat or intramuscular fat? But I'm mad, which is what we would call inter fat is within groups. So if you saw like a wagyu steak per se,

Melanie Avalon
Stake is a good example of understanding this, actually.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It's not what you want. You want your muscle tissue to look like a filet.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Okay.

Wow. It's funny, whenever I am picking out steaks or when they have wagyu, I'm like, this was not a healthy situation for this animal. All that fat there. So basically, it sounds like it's fat gunking up, being in the muscle when it shouldn't be there.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes. And part of this is from sedentary behavior. There's no such thing as a healthy sedentary person. It doesn't exist.

So when someone is eating outside of their muscle health, meaning their dietary choices must match their muscle health. And when this is dysregulated, for example, the average American eats 300 grams of carbohydrates a day, that's three oral glucose tolerance tests that is going to develop unhealthy muscle if someone is not training. And we have to recognize that whether your body composition changes, just the simple fact that you're doing a training program, a resistance training program, and or adding in some kind of cardiovascular activity, that's everything. It decreases intermuscular adipose tissue, your muscle gets healthier, whether or not your body composition changes or not. And that's why I think the playbook is such a good example of a program. You can't be distracted. There's no perfect program. There's no perfect diet. But what really works is when you commit to a program and you are consistent on it, and it has really good fundamental principles. That's how you move the needle.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that was one of the things I really appreciated was the emphasis on the commitment. Come up with the – you give in the book questions to ask so that you can come up with the training program that will work for you, how to plan it into your life, how to commit to it, and then daily check-ins about how to address your training.

But there's no excuses, so you're not going to not do the training. And if you feel like you're not up to it or you're traveling or whatever, maybe you have options where either you do an alternative exercise or a no-excuse exercise or you put it at a different time, but you're not going to not do it, essentially.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
you wouldn't wake up and not brush your teeth.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's a good example. Or it's like me every day. I really have integrated. I think the thing I'm best about doing that's like the hard thing is I do cryotherapy every day. And what's so interesting is I had a conversation once with the person working the machine and they were like asking me if it was easy now because I've been doing it every day for, I don't know, five years maybe. And I was like, no, it's not easy. And they're like, shouldn't it be easy by now? Like, doesn't that mean you're not improving? And I was like, no, I think that's the point is that it's not easy. I think it's not supposed to be easy. So yeah, I just love all of this so much.

Okay, so some other questions. So okay, you talk in the book about something I had not, because we're talking about different types of training here and the importance of adding that to your life. And people talk all the time about high intensity interval training. You talk about something that I was not familiar with, which is, is it strength interval training, SIT? Sprint interval training. Okay, I just wrote down the acronym. But yeah, what is the difference between these two? And I know you do say that in order to do sprint interval training, you first need to be able to jump rope for 10 minutes straight. I was thinking about it in my head. I was like, I don't know if I can jump rope 10 minutes straight. We're in.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Interval training is brutal. High intensity interval training is much more accessible. You're looking at roughly 85% your VO2 max. Sprint interval training is your, it's really your highest level effort. And it's extremely difficult. You have to get yourself in a mind frame that you're ready to do it. It's not for everybody. And it's not something that happens that needs to happen all the time.

That's why it says start with your jump rope for 10 minutes, see how you do. Because when you're doing sprint interval training, you have to, I mean, when I was doing it regularly, I might, I haven't actually been doing it the last couple of months. I've just been hitting my two days a week of some kind of cardiovascular, typically high intensity interval training and then the regular weight training. I do three regular weight training sessions and then one Saturday session, which would be a mix of more metabolic conditioning. But sprint interval training is amazing in the way that it pushes you both mentally and physically and extremely time efficient. We are talking about 30 seconds, 30 seconds full out effort. Yeah, it's intense. And when you do it right, you are gassed.

Melanie Avalon
I remember you said in the book that it's like one of the hardest things you've done. If she says that, then that's true.

What about vigorous intermittent lifestyle physical activity, which kind of sounds like because I talk a lot about like neat non-exercise activity thermogenesis. I was like, is it basically supporting that but in concentrated more intense versions throughout the day.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I think that's a great way to look at it. I think that that is a great analogy, and what people need to think about is people think about exercise snacks, but what actually is, say, for example, an exercise snack, and how much should we be moving?

And I would say adding in vigorous activity interspersed throughout your day is incredible. For example, for me, I usually do multiple sets of push-ups. It doesn't have to be long. You could go for a five-minute walk. You could go for a quicker jog, but you're just getting up, and you're putting your body to use in a way that is stressing the system to allow for better endurance movement, strength, tendon health, all these other positive benefits throughout the day.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm glad you mentioned tendons. So another topic, and again, I really relate to this, but you have a really wonderful section on interpreting soreness and pain. So how to know what to be concerned with and what is normal. And you talk about tendons soreness is different from muscle soreness, which I had no idea about.

What I'm thinking of is, again, like I said, I try to make my daily life, I say that I try to make my daily life heavy. So I try to just carry lots of things and pick up heavy things and all of this. And I actually pulled something once doing it by bringing out too many things from the car. And I remember I went to see the, whoever you go to for that, a muscle specialist. And he was like, oh, you're a one tripper. I was like, yeah, basically I take all the groceries out. But I twisted and did something and twisted something, which you do point out when you're picking up heavy things not to twist or bend. So all of that rambling is to say people recovering and people interpreting levels of pain and soreness, what should they know for what is normal versus not?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Soarness can be normal. The goal is not soreness, but pain that feels sharp, is unrelenting, is uncomfortable. The best way that I can put this is good pain is like a muscle burn. Not good pain is sharp, and it just is so difficult to do any kind of movement.

I mean, you should definitely get evaluated. Think back to the good types of pain, even if you're running a sprint. I mean, that's painful, but you're not hurting. It's just uncomfortable. Versus pain that you tore a hamstring, which I did. Sprinting, you cannot move, it is sharp, it is sudden. And you just know, like you said, when you're a one tripper, something's off. And I would say it's really important. There's a common narrative out there that you just have to lift heavy, otherwise it's useless. And I think that's very dangerous advice because it's not about progressive overload, which is typically what people think. It's about progressive stimulus. Let's say a 40 year old woman reads online that she just has to be lifting heavy. She tears her shoulder because her muscle strength outpaced her tendon health. She's now out of the game for months, which then is gonna lead to loss of muscle mass, probably loss of endurance, all these other things, all because her muscle outpaced her tendon health.

And we have to be really careful when the ultimate goal is to be in this for the long haul. It's a forever strong. It's not strong for six weeks or marginally weak. Forever strong is a way of how do we think about incorporating a muscle forward life? And the way that you do that is you also have to have intelligent training. So lifting heavy, heavy is relative, and that's just one way to increase stimulus. You could change up tempo, add more exercises. There's a million different ways to do it. And it's not just about lifting heavier.

Melanie Avalon
So this is the Intermittent Fasting Podcast, so we can't let you escape without talking a little bit about fasting because I know in the book you do talk about the importance of regular meals and breakfast being the most important meal of the day because it sets you up right for the day with everything. So for so many questions, the breakfast, the breaking of the fast, does that have to be in the a.m. morning hours or what about people who are doing intermittent fasting?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It doesn't. It does not have to be in the morning.

But typically, I, you know, again, from my perspective, you have to protect muscle at all costs. Protecting muscle at all costs means I don't recommend doing nothing for muscle health all day, you have to decide if you're gonna fast, then you probably need to be moving in the morning. If you're moving in the morning, then you could probably continue fasting. There's nothing magical about 8am for breakfast, or 9am or 10am. It's after you're coming out of an overnight fast. How do we protect our muscles over time? And that is, again, strategically adding in training and also making sure that the amino acid profile and that protein is high enough. And the way to do that is, listen, there are many days that I fast. And on the days that I fast, I typically train in the morning. So I'm providing some type of.

Melanie Avalon
I can't even, especially having done this show for maybe, I don't know, seven years now. I can't even tell you how many times we get what you just talked about, like the question of fasting, training, do you have to eat before training.

So it's really illuminating to hear that it's protective of muscle to be training while fasting, which I think is contrary to a lot of people might assume just thinking about it. Do you have thoughts on the evolving science on, because I think since we last talked on one of the podcasts, maybe is when they released the study looking at how long muscle protein synthesis is stimulated by protein intake and they thought it capped out like a certain amount of time, but it actually keeps going. Do you have thoughts on like, where's the science on that now?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I do. Basically, just to really nerd out, there's something called EIF4. There are these initiation factors that remain elevated for hours. We don't actually know.

So typically, what you're talking about is muscle protein synthesis is a proxy for muscle health. It's stimulating muscle through a mechanism of mTOR. There's a handful of inputs that are very valuable or the primary inputs to then stimulate muscle protein synthesis, all of which for the majority influence mTOR. There's amino acids, there's total energy, there's exercise, and there's growth hormone and insulin. As we age, we become much more dependent on exercise and resistance training. Once muscle protein synthesis is stimulated, this is what we believe to eventually lead to the accretion of muscle. This could last because it's not just mTOR. It's these initiation factors that can stay elevated for hours. Do we know how long? It's probably five to six hours. However, what becomes most important is total protein intake. Total protein intake in a 24-hour period, the first time you eat at least one of those meals because this is the intermittent fasting podcast. There's a really interesting paper by Arnall et al. This was a French group. They looked at older women and they did a crossover design. Each group of the women did one pattern, one group. It was the same group, so they each did this group. One group was one meal at 50 grams per meal and then a handful of smaller meals. They did a crossover design, so they did it again with this group. There was a bunch of smaller meals, five, 10 grams of protein. The one meal that hit that 50, when they did that, it showed more lean mass retention.

Melanie Avalon
Sorry, it was the same time window, but it was broken down.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yep, and that's interesting because again, this is the intermittent fasting podcast. How do you, if you enjoy fasting, how do you do it while you still protect muscle? And that is the way.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I still do what I've been doing for like a, I mean, a long time since 2012, 2011, 2010, a one meal a day situation at night, but it's a couple of hours, but it's a massive amount of protein. It's so much protein.

I just love my meat and chicken and fish and everything. We did get some questions though for you specifically, let's see, especially speaking of protein. So, okay, so Teresa, she says, I understand that she says we need to eat one gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight. I've also heard from others.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
body weight, target body weight, which is a really important differentiator. Ideal body weight is something that's calculated.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so that should be per target body weight.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Yes, where you.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. She says, I've also heard from others like a functional medical doctor that it can be too much.

I'm wondering on days when I'm not lifting heavy, is it just as important to hit the protein goal? If I'm on a rest day or maybe just waking, is it necessary to hit 140 grams? Sometimes I'm just not hungry.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Great question. And I would say that I recommend that people don't go below 100 grams of protein a day, because it seems to lose its metabolic benefit, meaning that when you go below 100 grams, it doesn't have the same impact on triglycerides.

Well, let me take a step back. When you have a higher protein diet with carbohydrates that are controlled, you have lower triglycerides, lower insulin, lower glucose, all of which relate to metabolic syndrome. When all of this is in a diet that matches for muscle health, which by the way, is all reflected in the playbook, by the time you release this, they are going to have released the new dietary guidelines. And the new dietary guidelines, 90% of the new dietary guidelines, I believe are reflected in the playbook, which is going to be the first book ever because, again, when this comes out, the new dietary guidelines will have been released. And how to implement them is in the playbook. Roughly 90% of the new dietary guideline changes already exist in the playbook. Dietary protein is the most essential macronutrient. We need more of it as we age. It is the way in which we maintain body composition. It is the way in which we help tissue turn over nearly every process in the body, which becomes less efficient as we age. You don't need 140 grams. That might be a lot of food, but you do need enough to protect muscle. And the minimum that I, regardless of your weight, would be 100 grams.

Melanie Avalon
It's funny, I think and what I love so as a teaser for listeners and get the forever strong playbook now, because like I said, we're only briefly barely touching on everything in there. But you have a visualization approach to to eating. So you like visualize how things look on your plate, which I think is very approachable for people. And it's honestly, it's the way I think about my food, probably.

I definitely think about things that that way, especially like the protein that I eat. Because if I visualize, if I visualize just 100 grams of protein, I would be really hungry still, I eat a lot of protein. With the change in the dietary guidelines, do you think it's amazing that that's happening? Do you think that really will have a trickle down effect? Like do people, my question is, do people really follow the dietary guidelines? I feel like I'm in this like silo.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
This is a great question. I think that they are going to be so controversial because they are going to be so pro-protein that people are going to have to wake up to that fact. And it's going to be non-negotiable, honestly.

I love that you're saying, do people even follow the guidelines the first place? And I would say, no, they don't. They're eating 300 grams of carbohydrates. They are eating probably around 90 grams of protein. But why this is so important is this creates a structure for people. And this is a structure for people that ultimately is so good for their health and wellness. Critical.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm guessing it would affect school systems.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It does, very smart.

Melanie Avalon
So that might be where the biggest impact is because, you know, kids, yeah, that's huge. Okay. That's amazing.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
also schools, schools, nursing homes, and military.

Melanie Avalon
So do you think white schools nurse after thing? Wow. Okay. Wow. Amazing. I wonder if that means they'll get rid of I know a lot of schools do like the meatless Monday thing.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Meat, can we talk about that for a second? That is the biggest waste of time ever.

Meatless Monday, Meatless Monday, the impact on greenhouse gas or whatever it is that they were going for for this Meatless Monday would have such a negligible effect that it makes no sense. But what it does do is it distorts the thinking of the youth because the idea is you're gonna reduce your meat consumption to affect greenhouse gas. That makes no sense because the majority of greenhouse gas in the US comes from industry, electricity and transportation over 80%. 9% of greenhouse gas comes from agriculture and beef and dairy. Half of that is vegetables and fruits. Probably four and a half percent of that is from wasted food. So most of that, and then maybe you're looking at three and a half percent of greenhouse gas emissions are coming from beef. Are you crazy? How about, it makes no sense. But what becomes so dangerous about that is now you are putting at risk an already compromised at risk population, young children to then have lower nutrient food.

Melanie Avalon
I will say if listeners want to learn more about that, I would highly recommend Rob Wolf's book, Sacred Cow. It's a really great overview of just the myths there.

And I'll also say, I think if I had to say the one topic, having done these types of podcasts and interviewed so many people for so many years, the most, at least for me, the most confusing thing I think is this issue. And it's just because when I talk to people on both sides, they make really, really compelling arguments. When I interview people who are very pro in the vegan world and very pro Meatless Monday and all that stuff, there's just so much stats and so much information out there and it's overwhelming and both sides can probably cherry pick. The reason I'm saying this is if I'm that confused, then the effect it has on kids, I can't even imagine, the indoctrination of ideas. So yeah, I get stressed about it a lot. Well, hopefully that will go away then unless they can, or they might just keep it and they'll...

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I propose is going to happen. What is going to happen is there's going to be such pushback, it's going to be unbelievable.

And when that happens, there's going to be a lot of discussion. And then what you're going to have to do is you're going to speak to those that are on the guidelines. And those that are on the guidelines are going to have to speak up and make their reasoning clear. And that is going to be really important.

Melanie Avalon
this is exciting times that we live in actually to that point. So say they do keep meatless Monday, hopefully not. But if they do, this is a different Teresa. She said, I get so sick of me trying to get my protein goal of 140 grams in a day and I can't have eggs.

What are her favorite veggie sources of protein? So can you get?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
I mean, you can, but I don't like to think of veggies as protein. Yes, but you can and the way that I would do it would be soy. The way that I would do it would be rice pea blends. All of those are the things that I think are really valuable.

I am not against animal based plant based proteins. I don't think that they are ideal, but you can get enough protein. You just have to be really careful around the carbohydrate intake. They are also not a replacement for animal protein, because what about B12, zinc, selenium, all of those things. It's going to be really tough.

Melanie Avalon
What about, so Amy, so this is so cool, she is a wild land firefighter. She's often on the hill away from stores and civilization for a month at a time.

She says in her line of work, it's incredibly hard for her to get enough protein. The meat that is offered, if it's offered at all, is fast food or slathered in sugary sauces and seed oils. The caterers won't accommodate my sensitivities. What are high protein foods that I can bring with me that require no refrigeration and no stove or oven? Beef jerky.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Beef jerky, sardines, canned chicken are my go-to. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. And what about... This is a different Amy.

So if we had two teresis and two Amys, she says, I noticed that she's promoting perfect aminos right now. How does that calculate with her recommended protein intake? Does she take that in addition to one gram of protein per pound of... She says ideal, but I guess target body weight, or in place of some of the dietary protein? How many servings?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Also, you've got some really engaged, sharp community members, people listening to this. When I hit my protein target of 120 to 130 grams, I don't use perfect aminos. When I use perfect aminos is when I am traveling, is when I am rushing in the morning, is when I know that I'm not going to hit my protein target. What I do is I add perfect aminos to my breakfast, and typically, like today, I barely eat. I don't even know what time it is or what day it is.

This morning, I had perfect aminos. This evening, I'll have perfect aminos. And typically, I'll go anywhere from two to three scoops. And what it does is, let's say I am rushing to various podcasts. I might have two ounces of chicken and then two scoops of perfect aminos at the same time. So then it essentially bumps up that protein meal as if it's a four-ounce chicken breast or five-ounce chicken breast, and I don't have to eat all that food. I actually really enjoy intermittent fasting, and I don't really like to think and work on a full stomach. And that's how I use perfect aminos. That's a really valuable way. The other really valuable way is if someone is going on GLP ones, they have to get their protein in. It's devastating if they don't. And then also recovery if you are sore or if you had a really hard training session. Awesome.

Melanie Avalon
And that would also be a good source, I guess, for people who are looking for more, because those are plant-based, I think, or they're not animal-based, I don't think.

Teresa also wanted to know, because she's a new mom, she said, what were the first foods that you introduced to your kids when they were babies?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Liver. Liver was the first one. Liver was the first one. And did they like it? Yes, because they don't know any.

Melanie Avalon
better. Wow. How did their tastes of how old are they now? Four and six. What did they eat daily now?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
My daughter is really interesting. My daughter eats really well and she's very tall for six and my son is my size.

I'm tiny. I'm five one and he's four and he we cannot I mean he loves dried meat but he when I say it's jerky we use this uh brooklyn naked it's so good but he doesn't have a massive appetite and they're both so athletic but they do have very flexible palettes.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. Yeah, I would love to be a fly on the wall and in the lion household. Well, here's a good question maybe to end on and bring everything full circle because I opened with a question from Barry and I said that, you know, your book basically answers it. But he also wanted to ask you, he said, I weigh 80 kilograms, 176 pounds. I'm six foot tall. I do resistance training three times per week, cardio three times per week and follow a 24 IF protocol, essentially a one meal a day situation. What are the most important things guys like me need to get right to maintain and build muscle while still staying lean, especially with a longer fasting window?

And so, yeah, Gabriel, so Barry's my co-host and he's an actor, musician and he, well, yeah, well, yeah, I guess a musician. He sings, he acts, but he has been doing fasting for a long time and trains and looks absolutely amazing. And it's been really nice because up until because you know, I think you know all the prior co-hosts of the show because Cynthia Thirlau, Vanessa Spina. Yes, I love every, yes, I love this girl. Yeah, this has been like the place to be for fasting. I don't know if you know, Jen Stevens, she was who I launched it with. I don't. Okay. Yeah. But Vanessa and Cynthia were absolutely fabulous. Barry's my first time having a male co-host on the show. And it's been really, really nice because so many of the concerns we get or questions we get are about not being able to do fasting and get adequate protein and maintain muscle. And Barry, I mean, he trains, he does one meal a day consistently. He looks amazing. He maintains muscle. So it's been nice to have a male perspective. But yeah, any, any tips for the guys or really, really any, anybody else out there? I guess we talked about fasting, but just any last tips for Barry?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Number one, keep up what you're doing. And right now, if he's younger than 35, he probably has a lot more flexibility.

If he's over 35, and he needs to make sure that he's getting recovery, and that he's training hard enough, and that he's getting enough protein in, potentially hormonal changes can happen. I mean, they don't have to, but you do just want to make sure that you're getting enough rest and recovery so that you can keep testosterone and anabolic hormones high. That would be the thing that I would think, and that allowing yourself, you know, really, it is about maintaining what you have, and you don't need to put on body fat to build muscle, it can be done very slowly. He sounds like he's doing all the right things. I'm not a huge fan of eating just one meal a day. But I do also think that there is this personalization and individuality that is undeniable.

Melanie Avalon
No, to that point. And to answer, I won't tell you Barry's age, but he looks younger than 35 is how I will answer that.

But it's funny, yes, Cynthia used to call me the unicorn because of how I eat with my one meal a day and all the protein. And it's funny because people will ask me a lot, like, what do you do? Like, because they want to, people like to, you know, they see somebody doing what they want to be doing. And so they want to do exactly what they do. And I'm like, you don't, I'm like, don't ask me, like, because I do one meal a day. I don't think it's for everybody. I eat exuberant amounts of protein and it's basically just like plain meat and, you know, like plain food. So I agree with you so much about the individualization. And now I'm just thinking we should, what would the word be? Petition, advocate, they should make the forever strong playbook, like, recommended reading in schools, then we would really change the world's health. Oh my goodness.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
We will and I would love to actually let me share the ethos of forever strong ethos with you. Yes please. And there's a poem and an ethos but I'm just gonna I'm gonna share the ethos. I was gonna

Melanie Avalon
did you write you wrote the poem

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Idea, did you read the poem?

Melanie Avalon
I did, yes. It made me so happy.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
You can pick which one I read, but I think we don't want people to think I'm too weird, so maybe I don't read the poem unless you think they're going to like that. The poem can be a teaser for the book.

But the ethos, the reason one has an ethos, it's a shared vision and a shared belief system, and it informs how we operate. And that's why I started the book with an ethos. I'm going to read it to you. The forever strong ethos. Aging is inevitable. Muscle is the organ of longevity. Strength is not a luxury, but a responsibility. Through discipline, clear intention, and a collective path of growth, we choose to build bodies and minds that thrive under pressure. We train not just for performance, but for life. We don't shrink from adversity. We are sharpened by it. We lead with clarity, act with integrity. Strength is our choice and our standard. Resilience is our language. Contribution is our calling. We are forever strong.

Melanie Avalon
Absolutely incredible. Thank you.

Thank you for what you're doing. Listeners, get The Forever Strong Playbook now. Get it for yourself. Get it for your friends and your family. It would make a great gift as well. I'm a big fan of like getting gifts throughout the year. So then come the holidays, you have gifts for everybody already. So stock up on gifts and then you'll be good with it.

Yeah, thank you. So where can people, what are the links to give people for all the things?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
It depends when this is going to air. I think this is airing the day before, the day before. Okay, perfect.

Well, they can go to drgabrielleion.com slash playbook, and there are $400 of bonuses. There's extra recipes, there's a mindset course, there's all kinds of extra bonuses. If they are listening after the 27th of January, you can order it wherever books are sold on Amazon, any of your favorite smaller retails, retailers or bookstores, and it's the forever strong place.

Melanie Avalon
book. Absolutely amazing.

So friends, get that now. Thank you so much, Gabrielle. I just can never, ever, you know, extend enough gratitude for everything that you're doing. I mean, I genuinely think you're one of the most influential, powerful people right now affecting people for their health for the better.

So thank you. And we'd love to have you back on again for the next book. That's going to be

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
your favorite. That's going to be your favorite. It's the forever strong.

Melanie Avalon
women. Yes. Oh my goodness. So excited.

Thank you so much and safe travels tomorrow. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Jan 19

#457 – A Secret Podcast Confession, Changing Beliefs About Fasting, 3 Ways To Lose Weight, The Future Of The Show, Getting Enough Protein, Fasting Misconceptions, Calories In Vs. Calories Out, And More!

Welcome to Episode 457: Special Anniversary Part 2 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

BIOPTIMIZERS

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠The River Cafe ⁠⁠

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 457 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX and author of What, Win, Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 457 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, welcome to our special part two anniversary celebration episode.

Barry Conrad
Thank you for the warm welcome, Mel. I'm so excited.

Our second part of our anniversary is celebrating our anniversary one year, and we're happy to be here with you listeners as well. Thank you for tuning in to party with us and celebrate.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just having so much fun. It was so much fun last week doing the questions and talking about what goes into the show and some of our favorite memories. So I'm really excited to continue it today.

Same. Before we jump into questions, what is new in your world?

Barry Conrad
What is new in my world? This is, I know this is way in the past, but I am going to be for the very first time making cornbread.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I literally had no idea what you were about to say, like my mind went like 20 different directions. So what is he going to say?

I was like, he's going to make a movie, make a baby, like what are you making?

Barry Conrad
that'll be coming soon. Yeah, I'm making cornbread for the first time. I know this is maybe not that exciting listeners, but I'm having my first Thanksgiving in two days and I'm getting right into the spurts. I'm doing greens and cornbread. That's what I'm bringing to the sort of like friends giving with a whole bunch of people. So I'm super stoked about it.

I've test driven the cornbread once before, but I'm making it for people for the first time. So wish me luck. I think the first time was really great. Well, I think you'd really approve even though you may maybe not eat it, but you'll look at my reaction to eating it and seeing that I enjoyed it. So yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So did you know, I haven't thought about this before, but I think cornbread is up there for one of my most, probably like top five nostalgic foods. Really? Yeah. And it's not because I particularly loved cornbread, which by the way, is like a very Southern thing.

So they don't have cornbread in Australia.

Barry Conrad
No way. It's nothing. And this is like a niche, you know, pop up or something, but it's not definitely not Australian.

Melanie Avalon
So my aunt Judy, shout out to Judy, she's an incredible chef and she used to have a restaurant in Athens, Georgia. And we used to always go growing up.

And she had Walter's cornbread. So Walter is the name of my grandfather. And it was like a spicy jalapeno, jalapeno. That's a question. Do you say jalapeno or jalapeno? What do you say?

Barry Conrad
Helipino. Helipino. It's got to be helipino. You say helipino.

Melanie Avalon
Some people say jalapeno, which I find, I don't know if I don't like that, but I also don't like jalapenos very much. But there were these spicy cornbreads and I think she even won awards for them. So it's very nostalgic for me because it reminds me of when I was eating that, it's like when I was at the restaurant with the family and my grandfather loved it. So yeah, I'm team cornbread, yay, that you are making it.

I've never made it. I wouldn't know where to start.

Barry Conrad
Does your mom make it for Thanksgiving or is that not really a thing?

Melanie Avalon
No, it was really just like that, my aunt and so I guess we would always have it at that Thanksgiving at that side of the family. But no, it's not like something my mom would make, I don't think.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm really, really excited because it's delicious and I'm not going to lie, I treated myself on my treat day by smashing a whole lot of it, aka half of the whole thing, but it was really, really good.

Melanie Avalon
I want pictures. Did you post pictures yet on Instagram?

Barry Conrad
I haven't posted yet. I did take a photo of the first one, but it wasn't really like a, it wasn't like a photo for the gram.

So I had like a shadow on it. Maybe I'll do one on, not maybe, I will do one and I'll have to send it to you.

Melanie Avalon
the Gram. This is another reason we'll be talking more about our relationship and such, but I think a reason, not the reason we get along so well, but a reason we will get along so well in real life is I feel like we perfectly understand each other's relationship to Instagram.

Barry Conrad
Do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you know, like I feel like we would have a really nice balance of like making sure we capture the moments, but also like not being in our phones the whole time, you know, like, I feel like, I feel like it'll go well.

Barry Conrad
I actually agree because this is something that it's a thing like and let me zoom out and say I'm sure that you've been in scenarios malware. Some people are just sitting there the whole time on their phone and not even engage and then equally. Some people stick was like, don't even look at you for once. Like, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And so when I'm in a social situation, I am not. The only reason I'm going to get on my phone is to take the Instagram footage or if we are looking up something that we need to look up. But I don't get on my phone otherwise.

I mean, I don't think I do. I really try not to. But it's like, I really do enjoy taking the boomerangs of the drinks and taking pictures together. I really enjoy that. And some people, I feel like I'm in a lot. Oftentimes, I'm in group situations where I feel bad because I'm like, they don't want to be doing this right now. So then I feel like, you know, not good.

Barry Conrad
You can feel it in the air to some people aren't and also fair enough some people on social media people or photo people but it's just for a moment and it's it's a memory that you can capture for the future you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. The worst is I feel so bad.

I feel like this happens a lot. I'll be with people who are being very accommodating. So they'll take the pictures. They don't complain or anything, but then they'll make comments like, just one or something like that. And then it's like, oh man, I got to get it all in one. And then I feel guilty because I know they don't want to be taking pictures. So I always do with those people, I always do one and then one for safety, one for safety. Or 10 for safety, not really.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. I'd like to know, I'd like to see you in, in your element, because I know that you, you always, I want to, cause you always do your, what is obligatory?

Melanie Avalon
obligatory bathroom selfie.

Barry Conrad
And the one that you do before you leave home and stuff right.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so there's always, so I think there's probably four, there's five, six, six, depending on what it is, pictures that must happen every outing.

Barry Conrad
So this is melanie's social media playbook okay go what are the money.

Melanie Avalon
Do you think you can guess them?

Barry Conrad
Okay, I'll try. Okay, the mirror one in your apartment before you leave.

Melanie Avalon
Like the walking? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. The next one will be a, well, definitely, maybe not an order, but the boomerang of the drinks, a selfie with faces of the people that you're with. Yes. A bathroom selfie.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, you got four.

Barry Conrad
And when you get a home...

Melanie Avalon
No opposite. There's one more before I leave. It's the first one. I actually always post and there's something on on it

Barry Conrad
like a patch on your arm or like a product or something like that.

Melanie Avalon
No, I do take product pictures while getting ready. There's the first one I always post though is the, like, where am I going?

Barry Conrad
Yes, of course. Where am I going?

Melanie Avalon
So like not in the mirror, but like a selfie and then like wear two friends and then I put a hint.

Barry Conrad
And then definitely the recovery photo as well.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you're right. So that's the next day. So that's yeah, that's like a bonus one nicely done. I forgot about that.

The only one you left out was if it's a like if it's a show, I have to obviously get a picture of like curtain call.

Barry Conrad
Yes, or even like walking down the aisle, remember that thing that you do?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if there's an aisle, so those are two, if it's a show, there's two additional that must happen.

One is the actual curtain call, which is the only time you can actually, unless it's like, start to slay or something, when you can actually like take a picture of the performers and then walking down the aisle, you know.

Barry Conrad
I feel like you have your playbook down pat.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I didn't realize I had this playbook, but yeah. Do you have a playbook? I don't know. You gotta get one. You gotta up your game.

Barry Conrad
Do you think I have a playbook? I don't know. I think my social media has evolved over time, but I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
So I would say you don't really, you know, I feel like it's like it's like a different blend. Like you will take the pictures of like, well, I feel like whenever you're when you have like a suit or something that you're wearing for a brand, you know, the pictures of that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, a couple of ones.

Melanie Avalon
But like do you so for example like comparing to my playbook do you have to make sure that you get a picture of the people that you're with if they want to be in the picture.

Barry Conrad
I try to feel at the vibe if the people at the like the event, if the event is like selfie friendly, I'll do that. And then if the people, if it feels like a natural moment, I'll do it. I won't just like pull it up just because, you know, it has to have good lighting and a good, like, you know, good background situation. Like what's happening behind me? Is there a vibe? Is it just like a wall? What's happening?

Melanie Avalon
Wait, Barry, do you have the beauty plus app? No, this is going to change your life.

Well, I mean, you always look great in the pictures, but this is going to change. I changed my, it changed my life. What is it? It's beauty plus it's an app and it basically, the way I describe it is because people are like, Oh, it's filters. No, it, it captures your true spirit in the most better way. So, but like you, it uses, like you pull up the app and then you take pictures in the app, like your selfies, and it will a just the original like non-filtered version, it makes you look better. And then you can like go in and edit the photos with, they have all these edits you can do.

Barry Conrad
You got to show me like an example of it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you have an iPhone. So just get the beauty plus app. I promise you, it's one of the few apps I subscribe to yearly.

Oh, that would be a fun question. Like, like what like what apps are worth, you know, like forking over money and like committing to and it is like, I mean, it might be number one for me there. Honestly.

Barry Conrad
That's a big deal. I didn't, had no idea that this was a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, my friend Katie, shout out to Katie, she introduced me to it a few like a year ago, two years ago maybe and never looked back. Now I turn everybody else on to it as well.

Barry Conrad
Okay. Now I'm going to have to look this up after the show and just see, is it's not going to be one of those apps that like distorts your, you know, like those face me apps.

You know, the one where it puts it like a different face, like it's all like AI.

Melanie Avalon
They probably have those options, but the main thing I use it for is just make, so every picture you see on my profile that was taken, if it's of me, was taken with Beauty Plus.

Barry Conrad
Wow. Okay, I need to check it out to see what I look like taking it.

Melanie Avalon
It's great. Then you find the filters that you like the most.

I will say just quickly, because I don't think I've thought about this before, but I think so if I'm going on a date with somebody I haven't met or somebody new, one of the moments I'm most nervous about is how are they going to be about pictures? If I had this moment where I'm like, oh, they're okay, it's like no big deal, it's just like, oh, sigh of relief. I'm not obnoxious or annoying, I promise. I just like to get the picture.

Barry Conrad
Like how, is it something that preoccupies you, like if you're going on a date, how soon into the night are you thinking the picture, got to get the picture, got to get the picture before my appearance changes or like, cause you know, you said like a lot of things happen Barry, from the car to the-

Melanie Avalon
Oh yes, Barry does not understand how I have to get there early so I can go to the bathroom so I can, a lot happens between the car and getting there, a lot.

Barry Conrad
How? It's nothing's you sitting down.

Melanie Avalon
walking, you just got to have your like moment in the bathroom and then being your element in my dream world. But I can't do this on a date because then okay, here's the here's the irony.

Oh my goodness, Barry, I'm having like an in real time epiphany. The irony here is that in my dream world, say I'm going on a date with a man I haven't met, I would want to get a picture really soon. So then like, I'm done, I have my picture, I don't have to worry about it. But if I do that, like ask for a picture right at the beginning, then I seem like the crazy chick that like needs to be on Instagram all the time. But it's like, no, actually, it's so I can like be done and like not take pictures. But that's not that's not how I manifest. Typically, I do it like later in the evening.

Barry Conrad
How would you just organically bring that up early in the night? What would you say if you had to or what have you said early in the evening?

Melanie Avalon
Well, usually I test it with the drinks, like the boomerang of the drinks. Can we do a boomerang of the drinks? And you kind of like can gauge their, their reaction. And if it's like, no big deal, super chill, it's like, okay, I can probably ask for the selfie like earlier than later, but if I'm like hesitant, then I, well, I'll just wait till the end. Usually get some wine in me.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny, but you're thinking about it the whole time, right?

Melanie Avalon
I'm thinking if I don't have the, I'm not thinking about it like actively, but if I don't have the picture yet, I like, you know, it's like the thing on the back burner, like the little, like little fly, like the little like thing on your shoulder. Like I just can we, you know, it's like, it's just there and the, it's like the buzzing in the background.

Barry Conrad
And is there a specific type, like does someone have to take it off you or do you have to do this, hold the phone yourself?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not of us. Oh, oh, like a selfie though? Oh, they can hold it if it's a selfie. Yeah. But I can't even tell you how many times people walk up and like offer to take pictures. And I'm like, no, I'm good. Like I say it, I say it nicer. But yeah.

Barry Conrad
Boy!

Melanie Avalon
It's nice to control what you can see.

Barry Conrad
You don't like someone just holding and just taking a photo of you guys?

Melanie Avalon
No, I'll do it, but yeah.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. So many things to look forward to when we finally meet, just to see what you like. There's the phone, a lot happening from the car.

Melanie Avalon
I sound so annoying from that whole monologue. I'm not like in my phone the whole time, I promise. I like to be in the moment. I just like to capture it and remember it as well.

Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. I get that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is why this is what brought this up. I feel like you and I will get along fine with the pictures

Barry Conrad
Yeah, as long as you're not taking like calls at the table. Sorry, taking another call. Like, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Oh, no. No, like I said, like, I'm not going to text other people. I'm not. Yeah, maybe in the bathroom.

Barry Conrad
We should put up a poll and it's not fast and related but if listeners like what what do you think about phones at the table do you have no friends at the table that what's the situation like you know think of a couple questions.

Melanie Avalon
Like, at the dinner table, I say no phones. Same. Unless, like I said, you need to look up something. But even then, most things can be looked up later.

Barry Conrad
I agree. It's nice to give people your attention at the table, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Anything else or should we jump into the testing stuff?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump on in.

Melanie Avalon
So, like I said, listeners, if you missed last week's episode, go check it out because we did five super fun questions about the show, how we met, one of our, you know, most memorable episodes, et cetera, and we have five more today.

So first question, Barry, what is one belief about fasting you used to hold that you no longer believe after doing the show together?

Barry Conrad
Wow. Well, it's sort of similar to another answer that I gave last episode, but it's true. It's not so much that I stopped believing something you used to. It's more, I think, doing the show with you, Mel. It's really massively expanded more my understanding of what fasting actually does for the body. You know, it's gone way beyond the initial situation I had in my head when I first started. I came into it specifically for mental clarity and obviously energy and physical results for sure, and that simple protocol. But through doing the show, I love the show, is I've realized IF just does way more under the surface than I ever, ever, ever appreciated or anticipated. So I'm blown away just how many layers there are to what we do and inflammation, gut risk, brain health, mood regulation, cravings, longevity, body composition, human growth hormone, autophagy. And as the shows went on from when I started till now, especially initially, but always, I keep going, wow, that too, fasting does that too. It helps with that too. And that is really genuinely enlightening every week.

So it's not necessarily something I stopped believing in or I don't think any more, but there's more that I believe in, more than I realize. It's not just a way of eating or a diet. It's such a lifestyle, lifelong friendly tool. You know, it's something that doesn't go out of fashion. And that's what I love. It's reliable. And so many things, like I'm getting so much more compliments now on my skin, my muscle. I'm noticing so much more stability in my cravings, actually my moods. And yeah, just brain fog. There's so many things that elicit endless. So again, to not to be redundant, there's not one thing that I stopped believing, but it's more that I've, there's more things that I've started believing from doing the show. What about you, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
I love it. And actually to that point, one thing I really love about how we do the show together with the format, because we came up with the idea of alternating and like one of us doing a study each week. And it's really, it's like really fun.

I love finding the studies. So I love, I think we've talked about this before, like how we go about finding the studies that we pick, but mine is usually, I usually come up with an idea that I want to learn more about and I hope that there's like a fasting study about it and I try to find a study about it. But so I love like finding a study. I love prepping it. And then I love the weeks that you bring the study because I just have no idea what it's going to be. And so it's really fun. It's like a really fun surprise each week. And I thought about it because you were talking about all the benefits and I've appreciated a lot of the studies that you've brought have been about specific benefits of fasting because I was thinking about the one like about like the lungs. I think there was one about like, was it about lung inflammation or something about, do you remember which one it was?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there's like lung support, also sperm motility, and yeah, there's so many things, so many benefits, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I remember when you brought the sperm woman, I was like, oh, this is so great to actually have, I mean, like a male co-host on the show. So yes, but so one for me that, so a belief that I used to hold that I no longer believe. It's not so much a belief that I used to hold completely that I lost, but it's more a greater appreciation of one of the common fasting fears, which is that you can't get enough protein in your eating window. And it's nice because like, I know I can, but, you know, Cynthia used to call me like the mythical unicorn and like, you know, I felt kind of really unique in that aspect, but it's nice because you also, you know, it's on a protein like me. So it's nice to see somebody else doing it in real time.

And I think the more I've like continued to do the high protein, the more I've realized how doable it is. And I think something that's important for people to keep in mind is like, if you're trying to get enough protein leading with protein, so not like filling up first on like fat or carbs, like you can, if you make protein the center and then build around that, I think it's easier to eat more protein. I think digestive enzymes for protein are so, so helpful for getting enough protein. And I'm so excited because I, you know, just launched as of this recording, my Avalon X digest, which that will, if you want to get, if you want to get enough protein in your eating window, that will really help you break it down, help you assimilate more protein. So definitely check that out. You can use the code I have podcasts for 10% off at Avalon X.us. But the other thing also related to protein, and I think I talked about this in one of the questions last week, but it's nice having a male co-host and having you because I've been able to speak about the experience as a female and eating protein, but I can't speak about like being a male eating protein and maintaining muscle and all of that. So it's been really nice to see you, you know, living the life, eating the protein in a one meal a day pattern and maintaining and building that muscle. So that's been, I guess my concerns about protein have been mostly alleviated now.

Barry Conrad
That's so good. And that's really kind of you to say, you know, one of the things that's so unique about us doing the show together, and I get this feedback from a lot of people that I put onto the podcast is I love the dynamic between the male and the female, you know, that just different perspectives naturally. Like you can't, you can't script that you can't manufacture that just innately. We're going to have different points of view.

Physiologically, we are different. So it's going to just be different to share how fasting affects us affects our digestion, how we experience muscle growth, all of the things, weight loss. And yeah, so that that's been super exciting. And also we keep discovering new studies. Well, new science keeps evolving and coming to the surface. That protein really is really is king. It really is amazing for us. And there's so there's been so much fear around that. And so yeah, just take what you said. I just, I love that protein is it's such a big part of both of our protocols and that we prioritize it and advocates for living advocates for it, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
It's really interesting, too, that the past three, including you, co-hosts, have all been very team-high protein. So, Cynthia, very high protein, or supportive of eating higher protein, same with Vanessa and you.

But the thing that I already said it, but to say it again, me, Vanessa, Cynthia, are all women. So, it's been really nice to see the male eating the protein in one meal a day, and that it's doable.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and hopefully it's not. It's more than doable and hope.

What I don't like is that when females are, you know, I wouldn't say demonized, but maybe like, you know, maybe put down for eating too much or, you know, eating proteins, if that's not like a feminine thing to do, it's like, it's important. It doesn't matter what gender you are, what you identify as protein, we all need it. You know, so it's just, it's funny. Do you get that?

Melanie Avalon
It doesn't actually bother me personally as me. I think it is a thing for other people. But for me, it's kind of makes me proud, you know? Because I'm like, yeah, I eat a lot of protein. Take that.

But I do think that is an issue in general with just the stereotypes and everything, the stigmas. OK, shall we do our next question?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So the next question is, what do you think is the biggest misconception listeners still have about fasting? What do you reckon, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
So this is funny because I realized I was going to do the protein for this one, but it actually answers it. So everything I just said for the last question also applies to this question, so the protein stuff. So I'm going to do two answers because I want to say what I was going to say for the prior one as well, which I think a misconception I've had is that if you're doing a one-meal-a-day situation, that it would be easier to always do it at the same time. So for me, always having the dinner eating one meal a day, it's been really nice getting to know you.

And you talked about this last episode about the flexibility that you've begun to experience with when you break your fast and how you typically do fast 20 hours, but it doesn't have to be at any certain set time. It's been really nice and interesting to see how you do the fasting. And it's definitely changed some misconceptions I have about how it would be easier to do it the same time every day because you'll change it around a bit. So that's been really cool. And then other biggest misconceptions? OK, so I think now this is just a few different ones I'm thinking of. So I think, and we talked about this last time, but I think there is a, well, A, I think people think that you really need to eat earlier in the day, like necessarily for the optimal health. And we see that that's not necessarily always the case, that some people can eat later and it works. I think there's still a big concern about for women, that fasting is bad for women. And here's one that's interesting. There's definitely a lot of concerns about fasting in women. And especially a lot of people will think that when you're in menopause, the older you get, that fasting is even more problematic. When honestly, it seems like that's where some of the greatest benefits come, with regulating hormones. And then when you're not cycling anymore, there isn't that added layer of concern about your cycle or anything like that. So I think misconceptions about women and fasting. So protein, women and fasting, and eating timing. How about you?

Barry Conrad
It's so hard to answer these questions because there's so many answers, but I would say two big ones still stand up for me. I would say one being that fasting is still just about, especially maybe new listeners or new people to intermittent fasting or flirting with your idea of intermittent fasting, that it's just starving, that it's just restriction, and it's extreme or something you do because you're unhappy with your body or trying to punish your body for not looking or performing a certain way. And I get that we live in a world that's constantly pushing that message of every ad, every headline. It can sometimes seem to come from this place of guilt or body fear or body shame. I can understand that some people may assume that, but it's really not. If that's a mindset that people start with, fasting is always going to feel like a battle or deprivation and something that you have to endure rather than realize it's something that's going to support our lives.

I think what a lot of people, once they stick with it and they learn, is that fasting is not a style. It's actually something we choose with a lot of awareness and intention. It actually teaches us so much about how a body works instead of fighting it. Once people realize that, I think the whole experience starts to shift. I think the second misconception that really frustrates me is the whole calories in, calories out thing. It's not that simple. I think this might frustrate me the most because it reduces this awesome adaptive process down to basic math because it's not just that. Fasting works on an emotional level, a metabolic level, hormonal level, psychological level. It's not just about calories. It's so much more peace of mind. Stress corresponds to sleep cycles, autophagy, cravings, digestion, cellular repair. I think the emotional stability that shows up when our blood sugar stops swinging, there's so many things. Then there's also the societal piece that I was talking about. We live in this culture that teaches us to eat every two hours or three meals a day or just snack constantly, never feel hunger, always fuel our bodies all day. When you fast, everyone suddenly can have an opinion about that. There's a lot of it's not actually that impossible. It's actually not what a lot of people make it out to be, so it's just a lot of noise. Lots of misconceptions out there.

Melanie Avalon
Those were really great, and the first one you were talking about, if listeners would like to hear more about that, it reminds me of the study we talked about, I think maybe two or three weeks ago, and it was the one about how your pre-existing beliefs about meal timing. So like, do you need to be eating 24-7, or do you need to be having breakfast? Like that affected whether or not people sustained fasting or not, and it changed their habits. So people who had these fears, they would eat food because they thought it was making them full rather than for the enjoyment, and then they were less likely to sustain fasting. So it just really speaks to what you're saying about how pervasive and how intense of an effect those thoughts have.

The thing about the calories in, calories out that really distresses me a little bit is it's so binary. People think, oh, it's all calories in, calories out, or calories don't matter, and it's all about insulin or hormones or whatever. And I'm like, what I think, and I just wish people could understand this subtle nuance, is in the end, yes, it is calories because it is, if you gain weight, but it's not calories in, calories out, it's if you gained weight, you stored more calories than you burned, like period. If you lose weight, you burn more calories than you took in, period. But it's like the math problem of that is not calories in, calories out. People are doing the wrong math problem. The math problem is so much more complicated than that. It's kind of like people think that it's like addition that you learn in kindergarten and subtraction when really it's like the type of math you do, I don't know, where you have to do the whole proof, and it's like pages and pages of math and all these things. That's what it's like because there's all these different factors affecting things about whether or not the calories that you take into your body physically, whether or not they actually become fat. So hormones, insulin, the gut microbiome, your body's just ability to metabolically change it to fat. Does the body decide, quote, decide? Some people, their body decides for whatever reason, like when you have excess calories to burn it off as heat, whereas other people store it. So yes, I think the math, we are doing the wrong math problem is my thoughts.

Barry Conrad
I wish this was screened on primetime TV. I want this to be just in school, learning about this because it's so useful. Help support and enlighten people's perspective and have a more healthy relationship with food in general, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
It's so true. Yes. So you just you literally cannot do that simple math problem. You don't have all the information you need to get the answer.

Barry Conrad
If we did, everyone would just be the size of whatever, like whatever they wanted. It's not that simple.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That was fun.

Okay. Next one. Okay. If you could bring any dream guest on the show next year, who would it be and why? I'm excited to hear what yours is. Oh, man. I don't think I can, I don't think I could even guess. Can I guess?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you can guess.

Melanie Avalon
Do I know this person? Oh, can we play the guessing game, both of us? Do I know this person? Like, do I know of this person?

Barry Conrad
Yes, you do.

Melanie Avalon
Do I know them personally? No. Well, obviously not. Is it a male? Mm-hmm. Is it somebody in the nutrition world?

Barry Conrad
Not per se, but no.

Melanie Avalon
Is it somebody in the fitness world?

Barry Conrad
has good nutrition.

Melanie Avalon
Is it somebody in the entertainment world? Yes. Okay, so it's somebody in the entertainment world and would they speak to like nutrition and things like that? Yep.

So is it an actor? Yes. Is it Hugh Jackman? Yes.

You know what Barry, I knew it like three questions ago but I was just making sure. What do you mean? Like I kind of milked it but I knew who it was.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, you just kind of had a hunch.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, once you said that it was somebody, I just sensed pretty quickly that it was somebody in the entertainment industry who has a really good physique, who you look up to, and yeah. Didn't you work with him in some capacity?

Barry Conrad
I didn't work with him some capacity, but I did, well, by working, I did fly, well, I was lowered down onto a stage using his harness, his harness from.

Melanie Avalon
using his harness.

Barry Conrad
There we go, that's something and I met his then wife, but that's it, but the reason why I chose Hugh Jackman, everyone is because Mel, you know this long before I came on the podcast, he was someone whose approach to health and discipline and performance really helped shape my interest in it and he's one of my favorite actors, he's an X-Men which I'm obsessed with, Marvel, and he did intermittent fasting.

Melanie Avalon
He did fasting.

Barry Conrad
It is intermittent fasting cuz I was trying to level up my fasting game my fitness game and when I read in this magazine that he was doing intermittent fastens of what is that. What is that thing and he was literally the person the first person that I read or saw who did it and that's what actually made me want to try and that's when.

After that I had to find all the information about fasting which then lead to finding this podcast is not crazy.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. We should manifest this.

Barry Conrad
That's what it was. So I'd love to ask him, how did he stumble on sentimental fasting? Why? What attracted him to him to it?

Because everyone, if you look at his physique from the Wolverine movies, he's jacked. He's not skinny or like scrawny, I should say is like the picture of health and muscle and like huge sorts. Like I'd love to talk and ask him about what he ate, you know, what he prioritized, macronutrient wise, what his protocol was from the beginning of the filming period to the end. If he still does it now, you know, like how he manages that when he travels, all the questions we like to know, I'd love to ask him that and just geek out.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. That is such a good answer. Yes, that's like the perfect answer.

Barry Conrad
What about you? I don't think I'm not going to guess yours, am I?

Melanie Avalon
probably not. I mean, it's probably the person that I have not had on any of my shows that I talk about the most as like a guidance person in the health and wellness space.

Barry Conrad
Okay, is it a male or female?

Melanie Avalon
That's not a yes, no question. It's a male. Fairy can't play the yes, no game. Is it a male? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Is it, is the male, like a biohacking sort of, you know, king, I should say, pioneer.

Melanie Avalon
If he was called that, people might call him that. If he did, he would hate that. He very much dislikes the biohacking term. He's not a fan.

Barry Conrad
Would it be Mark Sisson?

Melanie Avalon
You know, I just met him in person and I've had him. I've had him. He's been on the show. He's been on the show and he's been on my other show.

Barry Conrad
Actually, hold on, I think I know what it is.

Melanie Avalon
You might not know his name. I mean, I think you know his name, but I don't know if you would like come up with, like, I don't think it's like somebody in your, like, that you listened to. So you probably would, you'd be like, Oh yeah, you talk, you do talk about him, but I don't know if you would be able to pull his name out of a hat. If that makes sense.

So that would be my second option.

Barry Conrad
You got to tell me, I'm out of strikes.

Melanie Avalon
Peter Atea.

Barry Conrad
I know who that is. I know who Peter is. Damn, I should have guessed that. I know who that is. I've seen him on Thomas DeLauer's content a lot as well.

Melanie Avalon
I'm obsessed with his podcast. I listen to every episode.

I think I told you one of the best days of my life was the day I got a personal rejection email from him. Really? Mm-hmm. because it wasn't just like the... Did I tell you this?

Barry Conrad
Sounds vaguely familiar, but refresh my memory.

Melanie Avalon
I probably, I know I've told it before, but so at the expense of being repetitive, he had this book coming out and I was trying everything I could to get him on the show and I have, we have, so we have a lot of mutual friends. So I got them to text him and same with Huberman, but I finally, I heard back. So rather than getting like the, the, uh, template rejection email from his team. I got like a rejection email from him.

It was definitely him because he was literally like, I really hate going on podcasts, just FYI, like he was like, he was like, I'll check, but I like, don't like going on podcasts. And it was like Peter. I was like, Oh my gosh. Yes. I mean, no, but yes. And I remember I had a good friend at the time who knows him really well. And I was like, is this Peter? And he was like, yeah, that's Peter for sure.

Barry Conrad
Sure. Would you ever try and get him again? Oh, for sure.

Melanie Avalon
And it's in my long-term game plan. I think what's going to happen, I just have to meet him at a party. I feel like that's the only way this is going to happen.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I've read a few different things or heard a few different sound bites of him and his approach to fasting because his opinions changed on intermittent fasting, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. He definitely went from like, so he used to fast a lot and this is, this is something I will talk to him about at a cocktail party or on the podcast, probably at a cocktail party. I think because what he was doing a lot for fasting in the past was he was doing, I don't know if it was quarterly or monthly. It was a lot, but it was like four day or five day fasts and he lost a lot of muscle from it. I think he took his experience of that and let it filter into his thoughts on fasting in general because he was pretty down on fasting for quite a while.

I feel like he's come around now, but I do think, I do think he had a bias from his experience of doing too many long fasts that maybe he shouldn't have been doing. He talks a lot about like maintaining muscle on fasting and I'm like, there's a big difference between intermittent fasting and like what he was doing, which was, you know, multiple multi-day fast.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's not the same. I think a lot of people can lump that. It's not the same thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So intermittent fasting. But he does say, one thing I do like, just one last thing.

One thing I like that he does say is he says to lose weight, you basically, there's like three options and they're all about cutting something out or restriction. I don't know what word he uses, but it's like you either restrict your time, so you do fasting. You restrict your type of food, your macros. So you do like low carb, low fat, or you restrict your amount of food, your calories. He's like, those are like basically the three ways.

Barry Conrad
What do you think about that?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I pretty much agree, at least on the input side of things. So if we're not talking about like exercising and like burning off with physical activity, I mean those I think would be the three, the three things I don't know what else I don't know what other option there would be either like the amount of food, the type of food or when you eat the food.

Barry Conrad
I agree. Yeah, yeah, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
So yeah, maybe we can Oh, wait, he's like, he's like, Barry, one of his best friends is Hugh Jackman. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like buddies.

I'm going to send you. He said Hugh Jackman on the show a few times. So you would really like that those episodes, I think

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. I had no idea. Well, I need to listen to that thing because maybe that'll answer some of the questions that I had before you could be a guest.

Melanie Avalon
Man, now we have to really manifest this.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, anything's possible, seriously.

Melanie Avalon
I agree.

Barry Conrad
And one last thing on that, you know, do you ever think of when we talk about guests, when you think about guests, do you ever imagine sometimes having like a round table, like at a cocktail party and you're just eating and just drinking and just talking about all the stuff, all these leaders and all these big hitters in the world, just to see what their real opinions are? It'd be so interesting.

Melanie Avalon
with those people or talking about those people.

Barry Conrad
No, with those people.

Melanie Avalon
And it's kind of weird. I mean, it's not exactly the same thing, but it's weird that I've gotten to the place now where I go to conferences and stuff, and I'll be at dinners or I'll be at parties where it is a lot of these people. And that's just, it's really mind blowing to me that that could manifest. But yeah, that would be amazing to have drinks and get people's real opinions on stuff.

Somebody told me a story the other day. They said that they met Rhonda Patrick and, it might have been Peter, it was like Rhonda Patrick and one other person. And he said it was pretty mind blowing or funny because they were literally talking, like what they were talking about was so like, basically just a deep dive into the stuff. Like it was like really legit, like really intense. So I think they talk offline, similar to the way they talk on the podcast, or they have those conversations. Kind of like I think you and I do and would.

Wait, if you could have like, okay, so like pick a dream, like a dinner party and you can have... Ah, that's too hard. I know. Also, I realized my answer should have been Taylor Swift, but...

Barry Conrad
Maybe she, I mean, who knows, maybe she is into some sort of health thing, nutrition.

Melanie Avalon
I keep praying like she's going to decide to start doing intermittent fasting and like get obsessed. And then she's going to be like, well, let me find a podcast about this.

And then she'll be like the intermittent fasting podcast. Oh, I'll listen to that.

Barry Conrad
She might do it. Who knows? There's a lot of people that probably do do it without us knowing, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, probably. Yeah, so if you could have five people, is this okay, let's do five people any any like a dinner party, anything goes just a dinner party.

And we're both there. So we don't count. But like five other five guests.

Barry Conrad
Oh man, that's really tough. Uh, does it have, does it have to include Hugh Jackman as well?

Melanie Avalon
I think it would, yeah, because I mean, it doesn't have to. No, it doesn't have to, but.

Barry Conrad
Man, this is tough. This is really hard.

Okay, let me just think of the top of my head and a combination of people in the biohacking world. Different, like, areas. Okay, great. So, Huberman, I think he'd be interesting. Hugh Jackman, Cynthia Riva.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, which you met her right at the party.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, she was really cool and who else? Denzel Washington? These are all just guys and maybe Jennifer Aniston.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, Jennifer Aniston, did you have a crush on her growing up, like in Friends?

Barry Conrad
A huge crash, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny about her? Like she's such a crushable, like I think she's such a crushable female for like men always have crushes on her.

I think she's beautiful but there's something about her personality I think that makes people fall in love with her a lot.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I don't know, she is crushable. People just have that quality, right? They're just like...

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, she's got the crushable quality. Did we just coin that? I think we did. You know, who else is crushable? I was talking about this with a friend actually from frozen who does the voice of Ana.

Barry Conrad
Oh, yeah, Chris and Bill.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, just like very crushable like very cute fun quirky good vibe. Yeah

Barry Conrad
You know what, after I said this, there's so many more people that I'd want. That was just the first five people I thought of straight away, but there's so many people.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so it doesn't have to be the final list listeners, don't hold Barry to that when we have our party and it's different people. Mine would probably be... Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift, yeah, obviously. So Taylor Swift, Peter, Tia.

I actually do think Huberman. And then this is hard to do like in the moment. Oh, Johnny Depp. And do I need another woman probably? Actually, I might bring Dave Asprey, even though I do know him, but I think he would provide an interesting... Yeah, I got to think about that some more though. I might change it to somebody like in the entertainment industry. Oh, oh, oh, wait. Oh, my goodness. How about my... No, backtrack, Lana Del Rey. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Lana and Taylor will be like talking and chilling out and with you.

Melanie Avalon
Lana and Taylor and you and me, Huberman, Peter, Tia. Oh my gosh, this is the best party ever. Oh, and Blake Lively is as a backup because that's my girl crush.

Barry Conrad
I think she's super hot. I've always thought that she's crushable for sure. you

Melanie Avalon
Oh, she's so crushable. Some people, though, don't like her crushable-wise. So maybe she's not crushable because I feel like she's polarizing.

Barry Conrad
That's kinda good though.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think so. On that note, two more questions?

Barry Conrad
The next question is, where do you see the show going over the next year?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I think so when we were prepping this for this anniversary episode, we were talking with chat GPT for ideas and it gave us like some other really good ideas. So I definitely want to revisit some of those. Like it was like some good ideas for just some like episode topics that we could do different formats. For example, it suggested a like a MythBuster fasting edition episode. I think that would be fun. A fasting confessions episode, which I think could be fun. And that one we could like get fasting confessions from listeners. So I think that would be fun.

Let's see, there was one about hot takes and hard questions. So having like listeners submit their most controversial questions. And then like a fasting games where we like play games on on air. So like to we should do this for sure. Two truths and a lie, but only fasting or health related. Oh my gosh, we should do that next. We have a really fun. Yeah, so I like the different ideas. I think implementing them. I would love at some point in the future to have this as a video show. I just know like logistically, that's difficult. I think if we lived in the same city, we would, I don't know, I would really want to do that. We're in the same city. Yeah. So I think I think focusing on maybe getting the listeners more involved, trying some new formats, and then I would love to do video at some point. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, the sky's the limit. I definitely think, obviously, advancing and growing in the depth of what we share, more community stories, more science, more collaborations. I see some live events, live little pop-ups, a live little meet and greets in the future. That could be really fun.

Maybe even bringing listeners into the show in new ways, like having them call in or leave their questions in a voice note format so we can play it and then answer it. That could be really fun to hear your beautiful voices, just expanding it. And I do agree with the video and I do think about that a lot. There's a way to make that happen because I just think visually, it's just so fun. I wish people could see us laughing and talking and it'd be really fun to do, I think. And if logistically, we can't do it in the same place, even doing some where we can, I don't know, just get high quality. I mean, what do you think of even before doing it in IRL, even doing the whole filming thing? Is that bleak doing that? You know how some people do that on a camera?

Melanie Avalon
like this video.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, do you know how often we do Zoom interviews and stuff like that?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So the thing is, it's like, I need your skills. Like doing videos like a whole... I mean, I'm open to it. And then at the same time, I wonder... I don't know how much... So here... And this is what I've been thinking about with my Mindblown podcast because we stopped... I don't know if I told you this. We stopped Mindblown because we're gonna... You probably saw it and I probably told you or it's probably in Facebook.

But we decided to relaunch it as video and we didn't want to do... The amount of effort and time and resources, both getting ready and editing and all the things to do video as a Zoom call, I don't know that that would substantially boost the numbers as an in-studio. There's something about a high quality in-studio. So it's like, if you're gonna do it, it's like, do it right or not right, but do it, go all the way. But then it's like, pardon me wonders, it's like, maybe if you and I did this as an in-studio, just made that work, however it may be, maybe that would just make the show skyrocket. Which would make it... I mean, I'd love to do it anyways, but it would... And we could turn into a YouTube thing too.

Barry Conrad
If there was like a lot of planning we could like smash out like batches of episodes. You know because i mean if you don't live in the same place i mean but that would also just require just planning logistics you know to make that things we do record.

Pretty well not every but we do like a couple of shows at a time when we do it so we just take some planning like to like a whole weekend of like. 10 episodes i don't know do you know in.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, yeah, because that's what Scott and I were talking about with Mindblown is we're saying, because we're going to test the waters with it and see how it goes. But basically the game plan would be like, we'll find the studio that feels really good and everything like that. And then have a trip and just do four episodes one day, four episodes, maybe the next day. So that's like two months of episodes or even five and five. So then it's like doing a trip every other month. And if it makes the show, well, it would be so much more fun.

But if it makes the show increase even more in listenership and audience than it would, as far as money and resources and finances, it would pay for itself if it creates that ROI.

Barry Conrad
Mm hmm. Totally.

I mean, that's the I mean, we've been to a BC, it's such a visual medium and people just like to see people in real time doing just how they react what their faces are doing when they're thinking just people like to like watch how other people just interact.

Melanie Avalon
And you know what we could do? We could dress up for all of them. So I could wear like one of my different gowns every time and you could wear one of your suits.

Barry Conrad
We could definitely dress up and just, or just get like styling for each episode. Like treat it like a whole, like proper, not a talk show, but you know, like that kind of thing, like have stylists have hair, make up the whole thing, lighting.

Just make it a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like I said, I would want to find like a really good studio that so I mean, I really want to do it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, you know, we could think we could definitely.

Melanie Avalon
We've been talking about this, you know, and now that you're here, cause like when you were in Australia, it wasn't not an option, but now you're here.

Barry Conrad
If it's the whole idea of the whole concept of smashing out batches, take a trip and do that every other month, that's doable. It takes a bit of planning with questions and prep and stuff like that, but it's less time.

You smash it all out in a week, a couple of days or so, and then that's done.

Melanie Avalon
I think, okay, now I feel like we actually do have to do this.

Barry Conrad
Well, you know, like 2026 could be the year of like giving it a good crack. I mean, why not?

I mean, it could only not work or not work. I mean, I think it could only work because it's seeing us. I mean, why wouldn't people want to interact, you know?

Melanie Avalon
We should, you know, we should at least, okay, here's the thing. Cause I think what's intimidating is not intimidating, but what's a little bit overwhelming is like, can we sustain it?

Can we keep doing that? But we could just trial it. So we could record like eight episodes and a trip and we can see, cause I think we would know after airing eight, eight episodes, it like, is this affecting? We know what, what is this doing and can we keep doing it? And if we can keep doing it and it is great and we put on YouTube as well, then we keep doing it.

Barry Conrad
And if not, we can just revert back and all and the thing is people still get the audio on nothing changes for them that can still listen to it on the preferred platform and then what particular watch it on youtube and whatever so it's great.

Melanie Avalon
And it could be like a YouTube show too. So yeah, and we could even okay. Yeah, we should okay. We'll talk We'll talk more Call me

Barry Conrad
And also we could we could even like have like a little like i don't know how this would work but even have like a cheese and you know we do a restaurant segment you know stop just stuff like that make it really cool like and have like different intro tiles for each segment that flashes on the screen you know i just see it okay

Melanie Avalon
We're going to, listeners, let us know if this is something that I know like I've pulled in the group before about Mindblown, but I haven't about this show. We should pull.

I need to make a note because there's something we're going to pull from last time. What was it? It was like it wasn't related to fasting.

Barry Conrad
It was phones, phones at the table.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that was this episode. OK, yes.

Barry Conrad
But so many possibilities, which is exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I know, it's like the sky's the limit. I actually have a project I can't really talk about yet, but I might be doing a really fun video-related project in the new year, so we shall see.

Yeah, I can tell you about it offline.

Barry Conrad
Which which makes me excited because I know that you don't you know crazy about videos so anything that gets you to do it is great. Yes

Melanie Avalon
Yes. It's more like the time and energy, but okay. Shall we go to our last question? Let's do it.

So last question of part two anniversary episode. What is one thing about the other hosts that listeners may not realize but absolutely should?

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. There's so many different ways I could go with this. Wow, what can I say? I was thinking about a funny thing and then I was thinking just like a genuine nice thing. Okay, I'll probably share both.

Well, you listeners may or may not know this, but if you don't know this about Melanie, this is like the funny, unique thing is that she does not like to travel for more than a day. She's not good at traveling. She doesn't like it. She doesn't. She, you know, I've asked her several times like, what if you had to go here and it was for this? It's like, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't be there. It's like, why not? It's like, you could do it. It's like, no, I need too many things. I need a suitcase for my supplements. I need a suitcase for this and a suitcase for all the things that I need to feel good. So she's not a great traveler and I know that she wants to get better at traveling, but she does not enjoy it, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm not a morning person. So a lot of the things that you asked me, those situations, it's like, would you travel and like do this thing at 9am? Like, would you meet Peter at Tia at 9am? Like, I don't know.

Barry Conrad
Well, you know what, if we did the video thing, what if we had to, what if the, okay. This is another scenario.

What if the podcast studio that we really love. Oh, they do mornings. Nope. From 9AM to like, you would say no. No. So we filming at like midnight. Oh, wow. I'll be like 2AM the studio. And then I should say, and this is easy for me to say, Melanie is one of just the most caring, integrous, genuine, honest, funny people that I know. And it's a real joy and pleasure. Not just doing the show with you, but just knowing you and being your friend. So if listeners don't know that you've heard it from me, there you go.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much.

I'm going to treasure that. Oh, you're all of those characteristics as well, so much. So the thing that I actually thought about this, and there's so many things, I think one of the characteristics about you that I most appreciate that listeners might not realize, but absolutely should, is this actually came up a little bit, I think, in this episode when I was talking or last episode. Oh, it was last episode where I was talking about my first impression of you and you made a comment about you're not offended or anything like that. So there's only a few, not say there's only a few, but a lot of people, even if it's good friendships, good relationships, there are things you have to tiptoe around. A lot of people are tiptoey, like you got to know people's triggers or things that people can't talk about or you're worried about offending somebody. I never have that. Like, I feel so like psychological safety, I feel very safe with you. Like talking with you, I feel like we can talk about anything. And it takes a really evolved person with their ego to be that type of person where you're not, even if you are offended, you're not like, you know, it's not the other person. So you're like highly emotionally intelligent. And I I just really appreciate that we can talk about all the things. And I'm just never worried about how you're going to react.

Barry Conrad
That really means a lot. Thank you so much for saying that. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, it's such I feel like it's like the quality that would just, I mean, there are a lot of qualities that would really help the world. But if everybody could have that quality, we wouldn't have like the conflict that we have today, because we could just be safe with each other, even if we have different opinions.

Barry Conrad
I feel the same way about you. I like that we're both direct and at the same time, not direct in a blunt way, but direct and honest, and we don't shy away from having different opinions about things and we can talk about anything.

That's a really cool place to be in because a lot of people, you're right, you don't know how they're going to react or take things, you know what I mean? Even friends, really good friends.

Melanie Avalon
So I can feel like we can talk about any topic. I also can totally like shut you down and you won't hate me. So

Barry Conrad
Like the row thing? Yeah, you can, you're sitting in a different row. Yeah, you can sit with me. I'm not going to sit with you here.

Melanie Avalon
or morning or traveling. No, no, no. And then I was, I'm trying to decide if we should, we have like a mutual thing that listeners might not realize about the show, which we could share.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's share it.

Melanie Avalon
Do you know what it is? It's something that we do on some shows.

Barry Conrad
Ah, we should definitely, we should share it.

Melanie Avalon
It's not every show, but sometimes listeners, when we are having our proverbial breaking of the fast, we also literally break our fast with a glass of wine. You can see going forward if you can tell which episodes it is.

Barry Conrad
You should write and say, that's why they sounded like, well, what were they saying?

Melanie Avalon
Sometimes I'm like, oh man, thank you, editors.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, thank you, editors. Thank you very much.

Melanie Avalon
But yeah, that is, that has been, that's definitely something we've never, I've never done on the show before, so. It's fun though. It's so fun.

Which, so speaking of, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment? Yes. Maybe without wine, listeners can try to figure it out.

Barry Conrad
That's very funny.

Melanie Avalon
All right friends so here we go and the purpose of this part of the show which again is one of my favorite parts about the format that Barry Conrad and I have and it's that we think it is very important to celebrate the eating window just as much as the fasting window because that is when you're really getting a lot of the benefits from fasting actually that's when you're assimilating your nutrition rebuilding your body rebuilding you know optimizing your immune system all the things. So each week we feature a restaurant where we would go and break our fast and this week we have one that should be anniversary ready.

Barry Conrad
Yes, and yeah, this restaurant that I'm bringing for this second part of this double anniversary episode special is River Cafe in Brooklyn, New York, and essentially the link, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, look at all the fairy lights!

Barry Conrad
It's one of the most iconic, and I don't use that word lightly, iconic anniversary restaurants in America known for engagement photos in the waterfront and skyline views of Manhattan and the Brooklyn Bridge fully a la carte with classics like lobster, rack of lamb, seasonal pastas, lean, polished without becoming precious. The wine list is deep cellar with standout champagne and Bordeaux ideal for milestone celebrations and the vibe is romantic, elegant candle at the kind of place couples book a year in advance for anniversary or proposal nights so it's a quite a big, big deal this place.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. So this is the, at least like the picture on the main website of the outside, the magical like fairy light vibe with plants and everything is my favorite. I think we've talked about this like lighting, so important, so important. First thing I do when I go somewhere, if I can adjust the lighting, I will. I'm that person.

Okay, shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
So let's click on the dinner menu and I'll.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, look at the first thing on the appetizer list.

Barry Conrad
Finally, cause I think the past couple episodes are kind of gone easy on the oysters, but they hear a plenty this time. So, but if you scroll down all this, honestly, there's honestly, before we choose our things, there's so much, so many options.

It's so good. Oh my goodness. Starting with the appetizer, Melanie, what do you, what is catching you?

Melanie Avalon
this is like my dream. Okay. Whoa. Those are all app. Whoa. Okay. Let me make this smaller because we can't see everything. Okay. There are so many appetizers.

Barry Conrad
Amazing ones you have to have one you could have several.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. We've talked about octopus before, right? Yes. You have had it.

Barry Conrad
I love it. It's very, very good. And it never disappoints.

It's a little bit chewy, but I don't know that that's not a bad thing. I like it. Some people don't like the consistency. I love it. It's really good.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, there's so many things I want. Should we go back and forth? Should we? What should we do?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's go back and forth.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so first one, I really definitely, oh my goodness, I want the rabbit, which is pancetta. Wait, is it pancetta or pancetta? It's pancetta, right?

Pancetta wrapped roasted rabbit loin, artichoke, and rabbit lasagna, oven-dried tomato pesto, rabbit juice. And I wanna get the, whatever they can put on the side. Well, I need everything on the side. So have you had rabbit?

Barry Conrad
I have, I had rabbit and antenna reef a couple of years ago for the first time. It was so good. It's so delicious.

Melanie Avalon
It's really lean, right? It's the reason we have the word rabbit starvation. Do you know about this? So have you heard of rabbit starvation? This actually relates to protein.

Barry Conrad
I don't think so.

Melanie Avalon
So there's this idea that if you eat too much protein or high protein, that you get rabbit starvation. But it's not about... And there's this idea that it comes from the protein toxicity, but that's not true because rabbit starvation was when... I don't know. It's also called protein poisoning. And it's what happens when somebody eats almost only lean protein. But the key is there has to be no fat or carbohydrates.

And okay, so it's from the early explorers who tried to survive on very lean wild rabbits during harsh winters. And the idea is your body can't run on protein alone. Your liver can't process it. But I think what's really important to know is that it's not so much too much protein. It's that you don't... It's zero fat. So you don't have any of the other accompanying nutrients that you need. And so that's why rabbit starvation and this idea of high protein being bad, it's more than just the protein. Wow. Interesting. How about you? How about your next one?

Barry Conrad
So the first one i'm gonna do is the river cafe oysters have to do it it's river cafe oysters warm lemon glazed boa soleil oysters caramelized sweet onion speck ham pacific sturgeon caviar yum.

Melanie Avalon
Nice, I will not be having that. I'll have a bite of the caviar

Barry Conrad
Maybe because it's the anniversary might maybe kind of sort of maybe kind of try one of those days.

Melanie Avalon
I will try it. I won't like it, but I will try it.

Barry Conrad
What's your second addition?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, there's two I really want. So I actually, I know you know that I don't like to get scallops as my entree, but I will get it as an appetizer and especially this situation because it's a pork belly scallop duet. So slow cooked heritage pork belly, seared main sea scallop, pink pineapple, toasted macadamia, smoky pork juice. Okay, yes, that's amazing.

Again, everything on the side, please, but heritage pork belly with a seared scallop. It sounds like pure bliss, like that bite is probably just pure bliss.

Barry Conrad
That sounds amazing. I'm actually going to go with hot foie gras, because I actually got into this in Sydney shortly before coming maybe the last couple of years. I like foie gras. It's really, really good.

Sauté duck foie gras, sautens, poached quince, pistachio, main produce, confit, fadalia, onion.

Melanie Avalon
And it's hot.

Barry Conrad
And it's hot, so that'll be really, really delicious.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know that I've, I think I've only briefly tasted foie gras.

Barry Conrad
Really? I'm really surprised that you haven't tried it.

Melanie Avalon
I do feel, I mean, I have had it, it was very delicious. I do feel, I feel bad about like the situation, but, cause it's basically like fatty liver.

It's basically like, it's probably, I'm gonna go like a cannibal route. It's like if we had fatty liver, what it would taste like, but, but it is delicious and I will try it. My third one, speaking of actually kind of similar situation, like the fattiness, so the Wagyu steak tartare. I love steak tartare so much. So this is hand cut Kobe style beef with quail egg. Oh, I like quail egg. Cognat Gillet, traditional garnish, toast points. So I will get that all on the side. I'm really excited about the quail egg. I'm assuming, I wonder if it's like legit, it probably is like the, like the Wagyu Kobe, you know, like the, the real thing.

Barry Conrad
And I will get octopus. It's Portuguese octopus, seed, a la planta, heirloom, fingerling, potato, aragula leaves, classic romesco sauce. Sounds so good. What a table of appetizers.

Melanie Avalon
This menu is absolutely perfect. What does it mean? I should know this. Sierra de la Plancia. Is that on a plank or no?

Barry Conrad
It means cooking food on a very hot metal plate.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. And I do like that they call it appetizers.

Barry Conrad
and so we move on to the main course.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, please.

Barry Conrad
Look at those options over there.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, this menu is perfect. It's like the perfect menu, the perfect vibe. We have to go here.

Okay, so after we launch our video version and we go on YouTube and then when we get our plaque, like the YouTube award plaque, which now I've decided we have to do this, this is where I wanna go to celebrate here.

Barry Conrad
So we've got to do it.

Melanie Avalon
This might be my favorite restaurant that you've picked.

Barry Conrad
It's a, I'm really glad that I picked this too. I was like, what a good find. It looks amazing and I have to try it because it's right here.

Melanie Avalon
Did you Google anniversary restaurants?

Barry Conrad
something like that, yeah, but I fine-tuned it a little bit.

Melanie Avalon
Fine-tuned. Perfect. Okay. This is so amazing and hard.

Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. I know I do. I think I do. I have to ask some questions, but what are you getting?

Barry Conrad
What would you want to go first? You can go first.

Okay. I'm getting two things. I'm getting the lamb, which is roasted colorado, rack of lamb, Moge sausage, stuffed baby eggplant, English pea puree, natural lamb reduction. And.

Melanie Avalon
How are you getting it cooked?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go medium rare and then I'm also going to get the lobster, which is poached Nova Scotia lobster, tail baked lobster, Thermador gratin, Tuscan kale, crisp, salsa, fi fondant potato, mild lemon sauce. That sounds so good.

Melanie Avalon
I thought you were going to get the lobster.

Barry Conrad
Really? A lot. I just can't wait. This looks great. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
So I want, I need to talk to them about this because, so the venison, you know, I love venison, shout out to Maui Nui, but it's pan roasted venison loin. So I want to know how it's actually prepared.

And like, does that mean it's like a sauce situation or like, I don't know, I would like to get it plain. It comes with caramelized root vegetables, braised red cabbage, chestnuts, spacial. I can actually say that. Or spatula. I should know this. It's German. Young pine cone infused venison juice. Have you had pine cone infused anything before?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, I can't say I have.

Melanie Avalon
I didn't know you could flavor things with pinecone. Do they have pinecones in Australia?

Barry Conrad
I think they do, but it's not something that I'm more saw around like Cape Town, South Africa. Not really.

Melanie Avalon
Well, that sounds really good. So if they can make it plain for me and then everything on the side, that, and then I love, I love Bronzino, which is also called Branzino, I think. So I love Bronzino and it is Mediterranean sea bass wild shrimp crust. Oh, interesting.

Stuffed artichoke, taproot, broccoli, artichoke, and olive oil sauce. So if they can make it, because I'm assuming it's probably like a breading situation, so if they can make it without the wild shrimp crust or if they can just like adjust that a little bit and then put everything on the side. I love this fish and it tends to be lower in mercury as well.

Barry Conrad
Delicious, sounds so good. Is anything catching your eye for the dessert menu?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I know what I want. I'm probably going to have more of the appetizers.

So probably more like, especially since I didn't get like a steak or beef, I'm going to be having a craving. Like I want to fill that, that beef craving. So I might get more of the Wagyu tartar. Maybe.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. That sounds great.

I'm going to get the Chocolate Brooklyn Bridge, which is actually highlighted in orange, so it must be really, really good. Dark chocolate, my Keith, passion fruit ice cream, banana macadamia ganache, banana spuma. I don't even know what that is, but it sounds really good. And it's also highlighted on the dessert menu, so that's me. And then also some artisanal cheeses, because I love cheeses.

Melanie Avalon
I was hoping you would get that. I love a good cheese plate. I probably won't have any, but I would like to see them.

I would like to hear about them, because we know at this type of restaurant, if you get a cheese plate, they're gonna talk you through the cheese plate, and I love that. And then you can tell me what you think.

Barry Conrad
I sure can. And then also, if we click on the wine program now, it'll take us to a page and then this highlighted text that says the River cafes wine list.

So if you're going to click on that, it'll take us to a whole lot of a big assortment of a lot, actually.

Melanie Avalon
Is this just the wines or the cocktails as well?

Barry Conrad
Wow, they've got so many wines. I feel confident saying that you'll find something you would like here.

Melanie Avalon
This is definitely the type of list that I would need to take some time with, and there's a lot. Oh my goodness, there's so many. This is all by the bottle, though.

Barry Conrad
So extensive, but I think I would definitely like to get some champagne to start because send in anniversary vibes.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, a dry champagne. Do they have like a rosé champagne? They do they have I've had that before though Oh, that's a rosé wine. Okay champagne We can get like a oh they do they have a brute rosé

Barry Conrad
Perfect doing that. That's me. I reckon I'll be doing that.

Melanie Avalon
then the reds. So I would have to take some time and I would probably get something European, France, maybe a Gamay or a Cap Franc, but I feel very good about finding something here for sure. We don't have to sneak in my wine. We'll be good.

Awesome, awesome. How far is this from you? What part of New York?

Barry Conrad
So this is based in Brooklyn, which is basically where I live in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York. So it's not far at all.

You should go. I know. You know what? I'm actually going to make a note. I definitely have to go.

Melanie Avalon
You should go to the bar at the very least, you know, because you might not be able to get like a reservation. But I'm assuming you could probably go to the bar.

Oh, I found the, I found the bar, the cocktail bar. Oh, I found the menu. So go to information and then cocktail bar.

Barry Conrad
Apple martini actually sounds really good. I've actually been getting into martinis lately.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? Is that your new thing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, green apple cordial pinau de char, I'm getting this wrong, charantes, soca, sorghum spirit, cardamon. I reckon I'm gonna do that.

Melanie Avalon
So two questions for you about the martinis because having been a server in fine dining for five years, when you get the martini drinker, it's like it is both, it's a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because martini drinkers, they're probably going to order a lot of expensive food. They're probably going to tip.

Well, they're also probably going to be, I don't want to say obnoxious, but I wouldn't be obnoxious. They have a lot of requests about martinis. So when you order a martini, like not like a themed one, but like just like a straight up martini, how do you order it?

Barry Conrad
Gin Matine Dirty with two olives.

Melanie Avalon
See, it's always like a specific number of olives. Are they blue cheese stuffed olives? No. Okay, so just two olives.

And why do you think that is? Like why is it like there's a certain number that you need?

Barry Conrad
Well, 2 or 3. If they're big, I'll do 2. If they're small, I'll do 3.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, slightly dirty. Yeah. There you go. Awesome. Well, I am so excited. We will go here when we get our YouTube plaque.

Barry Conrad
Done. We got to do it. Celebratory vibes.

Melanie Avalon
make a note. So friends, thank you so much for being here with us over all the years, and especially this past year that Barry has been here. It has been so incredible. This was so fun talking about all the memories and all the things.

And now we have to plan, we're going to plan our episode 500, something special for that. And then we will plan our two year anniversary as well. So please send us ideas and thoughts. And you can do that by emailing questions at ifodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 457. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad, and we are IF Podcast. I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much once again for tuning in, everyone, for listening, for being with us, and here's to many, many more. See you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. See you next week. Bye.

Bye, Bill. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Jan 12

#456 – Our Favorite Podcast Moments, Changing Our Fasting Practice, How We Met, Metabolism Slowing Down With Age, Guilt In Eating Vs. Lifestyle Goals, How We Prepare The Show, And More!

⁠Daily energy expenditure through the human life course⁠

Welcome to Episode 456: Special Anniversary Part 1 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠Cinderella's Royal Table ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠IF Podcast Episode 447⁠

STUDIES

⁠Enjoyment or indulgence: What draws the line in hedonic food consumption?⁠⁠

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 456 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 456 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm Barry Conrad. Barry, I paused because I was going to say something really sparkly about anniversary episode, but then I realized it's also episode 456. It's kind of fun.

Barry Conrad
That is kind of fun actually. Do you think it means anything? What do you think? What's your feeling of that number being read out?

Melanie Avalon
My feeling is we look for patterns in life and they don't mean anything.

Barry Conrad
Pattern recognition with no meaning.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Because there's so many numbers where it could have been that situation.

It could have been three, two, one. It could have been seven, seven, seven. It could have been one, one, one. Literally it could have been anything.

Barry Conrad
11 11

Melanie Avalon
Oh, man, episode 1,111.

Barry Conrad
Because I saw someone, there's someone that I follow who always posts like a photo at 11 11 like it's a thing. She always does that.

Melanie Avalon
I love 11-11. Why? Because it's like the one time where you have this magical moment and then if you see it, then you can like text it to people.

Barry Conrad
Okay, it's good to know for the future.

Melanie Avalon
Do you never text 11-11 make a wish to anybody? You're gonna start getting it from me.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there you go. I've got to start doing it.

Melanie Avalon
It's great. Yeah.

But yes, for listeners, this is our one year anniversary of Barry Conrad being the co-host of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Actually, technically, I think tomorrow would be that day, but it was very close.

Barry Conrad
It's very close and it's super exciting. We realized this, I think last week or another episode where it's like, hey, is it our anniversary next week?

What? That just changed the game and what we're gonna do for the show, but I'm so excited. I can't believe it's been a year. It doesn't feel like a year, but it also has felt like ages. Like we were doing this forever. Do you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, exactly. I'm just so grateful. I just had the best time doing this show. It's so fun.

So for listeners, for this episode, and we decided to go ahead and make it a two parter because we know how we talk. So we're going to catch up like normal. And then we have some fun questions about the podcast, about our co hosting, we think that'll be really fun. And then we will still do our traditional restaurant at the end. And we're going to make them anniversary worthy restaurants.

Barry Conrad
very fitting for the occasion. I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm excited because when we were brainstorming for what to do for this episode and next episode, we actually found some other cool ideas for future episodes.

Barry Conrad
So stay tuned.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, stay tuned. So how are things in your world?

Barry Conrad
Things are great, you know, Mel, I have to say on the weekend, I went to see, even though this is in the future on the weekend, I went to see something that you saw as well. You want to guess what that is?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love guessing games, especially when they involve seeing things, a show.

Barry Conrad
It's something that you watch, it's not something that you sit in the front row for necessarily.

Melanie Avalon
You will be wicked.

Barry Conrad
Yes, you got it.

Melanie Avalon
We are so, okay, so this comes out January 12th. Everybody, if you haven't been wicked yet.

Barry Conrad
You have to see it. Hopefully it's still in the cinema. I don't know.

But Mel, I had a few wild facts about this movie that really blew me away. Like, you know, I, you know, because apparently John Chiu, John M. Chiu, incredible director, you know, he was so serious about making it feel real and not like overly CGI because I thought it was CGI, but he actually wanted to make people feel like they were walking around Oz. And because of that, something like I want to say like over 90 percent, well, actually over 90 percent of the sets were practical, like real built.

Melanie Avalon
Oh really?

Barry Conrad
Isn't that insane?

Melanie Avalon
That's a me. I want to see it again and I'm going to appreciate that while watching it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, which explains a lot, and Munchkin land, they actually planted 9 million tulips in the English countryside to build that world, not a million.

Melanie Avalon
Wait wait wait so the shots of the flowers those were all real.

Barry Conrad
Mmhmm.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm realizing in real time, I thought those were the poppies, but those weren't the poppies, those were tulips.

Barry Conrad
There are puppies in another scene, but the tulips are like the pink ones. You know those pink ones?

Melanie Avalon
Mm hmm. No, I distinctly remember it. And I think I attributed it to poppies as well. And I was I was like, those don't look like poppies. Okay.

Barry Conrad
And how many, how many months do you reckon it took the shiz university set to be built? It's under 10 over two.

Melanie Avalon
eight, seven, five.

Barry Conrad
four five six

Melanie Avalon
Still.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, amazing, right?

Melanie Avalon
Wow, thank you. That's a good fun fact.

Barry Conrad
And last but not least, the train, 16 tons, built for real. It's a real train.

Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. That must be so incredible to be an actor and to get to be on that set. Right? Like how cool would that be? Cause that's like the closest you're going to get to like being in a world like that.

Barry Conrad
As far as we know, a sparkly mythical world. What did you actually think of it? Did you like it? Did you love it? Did you like it more than the first one?

Melanie Avalon
I actually answered this question with a friend today. So I loved it.

I do think I prefer the first one a little bit more, but I still loved it. It was interesting that they added in new songs. I want to know if Stephen Schwartz did those songs. Do you know?

Barry Conrad
I actually don't know that because which ones were I know the ones I recognize like Because I knew like like for good and as long as you're mine, but I don't know the other ones

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so the No Place Like Home song was new, and then The Girl in the Bubble, Elphaba and Glinda got a new song. And yes, Steven Schwartz did write them for the film. They also added in a lot of small singing moments, which I don't think are in the the play or the the stage version. I'm fairly certain. Like it was like repriezes of other songs that happened like three times maybe. And I think I could be wrong.

Barry Conrad
You know, every time I saw Ariana Grande as Glinda, I just keep on thinking of you and your, you know, your Halloween and just the dress up moments, like, you know, the long dresses and, you know, all that.

Melanie Avalon
You know, it's funny, I actually, because I did wear my Glinda from part one to the movie. And for some reason, I was like embarrassed or nervous or embarrassed.

Why? I don't know. But then once I got there, everybody was so supportive. It was wild and that quickly changed. Then I was good.

Barry Conrad
I thought it looked right.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. I was definitely the only person there though in like full, full character besides the characters that they had to take pictures with because our movie theater goes all out.

Which type of movie theater did you see it in?

Barry Conrad
I actually went to one that's like just around the corner and it's kind of one of those really intimate low key ones, like really small, like hardly any, like, you know, like a few seats. It was really cool.

It was like having a private screening room.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. Like recliner seats and everything? Yes. That's the way it is. Once you go to that type of movie theater, I can never go back now to like a normal theater.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, trying to scoot through rows and try, you know, like, sorry, sorry, you know, rows of people.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I need my recliner, my heated seat, my wine, I need all the things.

Barry Conrad
Tell me about you. How has your week been?

Melanie Avalon
So good. I had the most magical, no pun intended show experience on Sunday, which I already told you some of this, Barry, but this is perfect example of why you must be on the front row while seeing shows.

Why? So I went to a magical Cirque Christmas. Again, this is in January, but actually we're recording this in November. Oh, that's a side note. How do you feel about Christmas before Thanksgiving? Like Christmas stuff, like music, or I don't like it.

Barry Conrad
I never ever had an opinion about that until now, because in Australia, we didn't have that. So it's like just Christmas from November 1st all the way through.

But now that I'm here, like November 1st or even before.

Melanie Avalon
What? Before?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, just like Christmas songs in the mall and Christmas decorations going up. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
In October? Yep. Oh my goodness. Okay. So you were raised. Okay.

Barry Conrad
But then now it's like Thanksgiving, it's almost like they're battling it out. Like Thanksgiving's happening, but there's still Christmas carols being played in the mall and the store and there's decorations everywhere.

What about you? What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I feel very, very strongly about this. So October is the month of Halloween. Everything should be themed accordingly, spooky stuff, jack-o'-lanterns, et cetera.

November is the month of Thanksgiving. Pumpkins but not jack-o'-lanterns, pumpkins, but like pumpkin vibe, thankful vibe. I don't want to hear any Christmas. No, no, no. I just think Christmas is so sacred that it cannot happen until the day after Thanksgiving wherever that may fall.

Barry Conrad
So is that the rule like the day after like the clock strikes 12 the day after Thanksgiving then? Mariah Carey or whatever whatever Christmas songs and just like

Melanie Avalon
I had to listen to Christmas on Sunday because it was a Christmas show, but I will not play a Christmas song until the day after Thanksgiving.

Barry Conrad
This is really a new experience. I love this. I've never, I didn't know you had this opinion A and B. I didn't know that maybe other Americans share the same thought. I wonder if they do.

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's funny is my friend Sarah that I went to the show with, it's funny because we equally love Christmas, and yet that manifests in the different ways in that she puts up her tree after Halloween, which I think is sacrilegious, and she says, I'm not in the Christmas spirit. I'm like, no, no, no, I just appreciate Christmas and it is so special that it cannot happen until December.

Barry Conrad
So you won't, when will you put your tree up and are you excited to, is your tree going to be different to past years or the same one?

Melanie Avalon
It's always the same, which is a collection and this is so untimely for listeners. I'm so sorry, but It's always a collection of childhood ornaments ornaments from musicals and ornaments from Taylor Swift and the Taylor Swift and the musical ones is a collection that forever grows because More musicals and Taylor keeps popping out those ornaments I just got five more Taylor Swift ones five.

Yeah, she literally has like 50 on her website

Barry Conrad
Also, she keeps making music, so there you go.

Melanie Avalon
I did go and see A Magical Cirque Christmas, which I thought was Cirque du Soleil. It's actually not, I mean, it's like Cirque du Soleil, but they're not affiliated.

It's a touring Broadway-type show and it's also a magic show. Wow. Yes, and we were on the front row and I did get picked for a trick. See, this is why you must be on the front row. And then they remembered me, so then they invited me to hang out with them after, like the whole cast. And see, that would not happen if I had not been on the front row. See?

Barry Conrad
So did you do your eyes? Because listen, as Melanie does this thing, she tries to make eye contact. I'd love to see this in action.

Melanie Avalon
I made that eye contact and it worked.

Barry Conrad
What do you do? Do you just stare and try to lock? Like, what do you do? Do you just lock in?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you just try to like, well, you figure out who you want to send these messages to, you know, and then you, you try to send because the happiness I feel when I'm seeing a show front row is like, it's like my shining, beautiful state of being that I just want to exist in, in this incandescent state. So I try to take that energy and send it with gratitude to the person, which you got to do by making eye contact.

Barry Conrad
Are really, you know what, because listeners, Mel and I had, we talked on Instagram about this, but she was like, what will we do if you don't like sitting in the front row? And I said, I'll sit in the front row for you because I want to see, I want to look at you to the left to the right wherever you're sitting and just watch you and actually use your powers to see what you do.

Like, what is your face doing when you like what, you know, do you tilt your head? What do you do?

Melanie Avalon
I don't, I mean, you can tell me when we, and also by the way, listeners told Barry said that he would, he would adjust and be in the front row for me and I told him I would not adjust and be in a different row.

Barry Conrad
It's good to know the favor is now returned. Thanks, Mel. Wow.

Melanie Avalon
You don't want me if I'm not like, like, you know, you want me to be in my, my vibe. We can sit separate. I can be on the front row and you can be farther back.

Barry Conrad
We have to sit together also I have another question for you about shows.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh, and I have one other part of the story too to tell you.

Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, keep telling me. Go. You go first. Do you cry at shows or not really?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, during, oh, like stage shows? Yeah. I don't think I actually, I don't think I have. I think the closest, I almost cried in Wicked and I almost cried in Frozen.

Oh, wow. Sorry, Wicked the stage show. Wicked the movie. I didn't even see the scene for good. I was crying so hard. Like I literally, people are talking about like things that happened during that scene and I'm like, I don't know because I was like bawling and my eyes were closed. Did you cry?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I'm not gonna lie. I teared up. It's a pretty emotional, like, it sounds really girly to say, but it was really emotional moments.

Good acting, like, amazing, grounded performances. I loved it.

Melanie Avalon
of all acting, but have you cried in a stage show?

Barry Conrad
Not so much. I think it's more like film. I think because it feels more private for some reason, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you're like more in it. It's more like in your head in a movie. Compared to a stage show, it's like you're watching something. I mean, you're watching something both ways, but it's different.

Barry Conrad
I get more goosebumps, but anyway, I'm distracting you from your story. What else happened?

Melanie Avalon
last part of the story. So Cirque du Soleil, amazing, all the things. I get home, they didn't invite me until like I was already home. So I go all the way home, which is like half an hour away. And then they were saying where they were, which was this like dive bar. Actually, you probably would have liked it. It was kind of a cool vibe. It was like a game like an arcade themed bar. I was like, you know, we talked about I think last time Barry how even though I'm a night owl, like I don't like being out super late. So I was like, I don't think I'm going to go.

But then they said two things that made me have to go. One, they said that they had a hard out time at 1150 because of the tour bus leaving. I was like, okay, so there's a hard out I can do that. And then two, they said that the whole cast wanted to meet me because they were all talking about me. I was like, oh my goodness, I can't not go. So so then I turn around, go right back, forgot my ID. So I talked my way in

Barry Conrad
Look at you. Okay, what did you say?

Melanie Avalon
And I was having flashbacks because I don't remember like I haven't been in like a bouncer situation where I'm trying to talk my way in since college and back then you actually are underage. You know, I was like, this is crazy.

What if I what if I come this whole way and I can't get in? What I ended up doing was I pulled up the CNBC article that has my age in the title and I was like, this is me. See?

Barry Conrad
That's hilarious and genius. That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
They let me in.

Barry Conrad
That's so good. Did you like meeting them? Were they fun? Like what would they like?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. Okay, that's my other thing, Barry.

This actually reminds me of you. I'm really blown away by how they're so incredibly physically talented and do this really grueling, you know, acrobatics and things that just blow my mind and they're doing on tour and they're doing like multiple shows and they still party like I would be wrecked.

Barry Conrad
I know that you would, because you'd be like, oh, I've got to go. This is not, you know, I can't do it, but it's, it's just like adrenaline. Like you're also coming down from the show and then you crash the next morning kind of thing, you know.

Melanie Avalon
When you do one of your runs of a show, do you go out every night after?

Barry Conrad
Not every night, but there's usually definitely a couple nights where we'll head out, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And then you just like wake up the next day and just carry on.

Barry Conrad
You usually sleep a little bit later, usually Melanie Avalon out of it, which means you wake up a bit later because you're so erect and then you just do it again.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, yeah, I can't. It's amazing. But um, but yeah, no, it was super fun.

Barry Conrad
That's awesome. Are you gonna keep in touch with them?

Melanie Avalon
Probably not, but I would see again if it comes in town.

Barry Conrad
At least I know that you can talk us into a club if we lose our dues. There we go.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny? You look so young, I bet you would have a hard time talking your way in.

Barry Conrad
That has happened and does happen, but it's just, it's hilarious. I've tried the Google thing and people don't, bounces like, I don't care, bro.

You know, coming in. Cause they just get stubborn about it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's probably easier as a girl. Oh, it depends on the bouncer.

Definitely depends on the bouncer. So the bouncer is like their mission. Their mission in life is to not let people in, if they can, you know? So, and it's like that type of bouncer, you're like, you're not getting in.

Barry Conrad
I feel like if they saw a UML, you'd just have this aura, like this vibe where they, you know, like, we have to litter in.

Melanie Avalon
Like I'm not lying vibe. So to put a nice little bow on everything, have I convinced you that one must be on the front row.

Barry Conrad
I don't know about convince, but I'll definitely sit with you on the front, even though you wouldn't sit with me in the middle or further background.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. OK, so shall we jump into our first anniversary questions, which these actually do relate to fasting in the podcast and things more timely.

Barry Conrad
For sure. This is exciting. This is great.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I've been really looking forward to this.

Barry Conrad
So our first anniversary question is what has been your favorite part or moment of doing the show this past year?

Melanie Avalon
I think there were, well, okay, a few things. One, I really like our restaurant format. I like the format of the show. So like, this is like a general answer, but I really like how we do the studies at the beginning. I love doing listener Q&A. I love hearing from listeners. I love talking with them, even though they can't talk back in the moment. And then I love doing our restaurants at the end. It's just so, so fun.

I think there were two topics that we talked about that I really,

Barry Conrad
And also, this is really crazy because I also picked two, so this is, yeah, I wonder if it's the same. Yeah, it won't be the same.

Melanie Avalon
So I think the general format and then one of my answers, so there have been a few episodes where I really enjoyed the topic and I'm going to save one of them for a later answer, but one for now is I really liked the study about the lack of weight gain with age compared to what people think. Like the one about when, you know, how much people actually realistically gain as they age. I think that is one of the most shocking studies that is so contrary to what people think because wasn't it like people don't really gain weight statistically up until like, I'm paraphrasing, but like 50 or 60 and then after that it's like 2% or something like that. Yeah. So I really, really enjoyed that.

I like when we find studies where it's just so either contrary to what you were thinking or fascinating to talk about or just not what you were expecting. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Also, to add into what you were saying, I'd 100% agree. I tried to say that to someone the other day and I couldn't remember the stats, but I need to find that episode so I can look it up again.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so actually listeners, after much searching, we found it. There was that one study that we talked about that I really liked. And it was looking at whether or not people's metabolism slow down as you age, because we think that as you get older, that your metabolism just comes to a screeching halt. And they looked at 6,600 individuals ranging from infancy to 95. And they found that after accounting for body size and composition, total energy expenditure remains relatively stable from age 20 to 60. And even then, it's very minimal.

So after 60, the metabolism only slows down approximately 0.7% per year, which this is so, like, this is so contrary to what we think, like, we've always been told that our metabolism slows down. So point of me telling that is, I love having moments like that on the show, where it's something just so contrary to what you're thinking or shocking, but really, that gives you, like, empowering knowledge, and, you know, a new perspective on how you can have agency in what you're doing.

Barry Conrad
That's amazing in that step, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
I know I need to like memorize that like for memory and I need to memorize like the link to the study and just give it to people What is your answer?

Barry Conrad
That's it's so hard because when I look back on this past year, especially because it's my first year, it's super hard to pick like just a single favorite moment. I mean, I really mean that. I mean, there's favorite moments from every show about every episode has something that sticks with me for a different reason. You know, I guess whether it's something personal or something science based. If I had to highlight a couple, that's what I said. I've got like two as well. They've been a lot to me personally. I, there are a couple that do stand out though. One was definitely when we recorded on my birthday this year, Mel, I came into that day thinking it'd be like completely normal session, you know, same process, same format. By the way, I love our format as well. I love our banter, study, listening questions, restaurant of that as well. But I thought it'd be a completely normal session, same everything, same rhythm. But then Mel, you acknowledged my birthday and that probably sounds like a very simple thing, but it was so sincere, so genuine. And it really, it genuinely made me feel really valued and appreciated. And in a way I didn't expect at the moment. And I remember finishing that thinking, oh, that really, really meant something and, and impacted me and stuck with me for the rest of that day, actually, and week. So I'll always remember that as a little cornerstone of this year.

And I would say also the one, I can't remember exactly which episode it was, but the one where we were, we were talking and then it led to us talking about, I think you were about like telling people what they mean to you. You know, when should we tell people what they mean to and why? So like shifted from, I don't know, we may be talking about a listener question or fasting or physiology. And then just we went into that and, and it's moments like those that make the show for me even more memorable.

I love the science. I love the information. So key. It's so important. We love your listener questions, everybody. We love answering them and it's fun and dynamic. And I also think, and also those little in between moments that are unexpected. They really leave me impacted. And also like there's, there's so many funny moments as well, Mel, that we have throughout the year that are unexpected, like even when a listener story like, you know, gets us or there's days where we're tired, like you're tired or I'm stretched thin or whatever on the show, sort of like we, we give each other a boost or like, you know, pick each other up. I like that as well. And even the BTS parts listens because before we actually record, we will check in and, and chat a bit like, and our mythical calls afterwards. It's just a whole thing. It's not just, hopefully you can feel what, you know, our report and our connection through the show because we have so much fun doing it. So the point I'm trying to make is there's no one single favorite moment because it's just all amazing. I love it.

Melanie Avalon
So I love all of that so much. And what I also love, so I had no idea like that birthday moment that that had that effect on you. And I love when you learn like about little moments that you had no idea about, but they really like linger and last for the person. It's so special.

Like one of those for me, but this would have been, this was before, and this kind of relates to the next question about when we first met, but before, do you remember the one time I did video?

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, yes.

Melanie Avalon
And Barry Conrad showed up with wine and like a cucumber. And it was like the sweetest thing ever that, yeah, I'm going to remember that.

Barry Conrad
Because it's Melanie Evelyn's situation, that's what you do. Wine and cucumbers and lots of protein.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, there's a massive cucumber. So and then I also I agree so much. I like, I love everything that I do. I mean, that's a blanket statement.

But I almost everything I do in life, like work wise, I'm just so grateful for what I do. And still, even if I love it, there are some things where it's a little bit draining to do it. Like I walk away, you know, tired, but this show, I always even if I'm tired going in, I always walk away, like very energetic, which I think is very telling.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. I feel exactly the same way. Always invigorated or inspired by the science and by learning something new every week and also just by having the best time I do.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, likewise. Okay, so second question is how did we first meet and what were our first impressions of each other? I know my answer to this so much. Okay, go.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. So I had to really think back because it's funny because I think I want to say it was Instagram. Was it Instagram, Melanie? I remember I was new to fasting and I was listening to the intermittent fasting podcast that I'm now a co-host of it. I was listening to you and I was saying, well, I want to say it was Jen Stevens back then. And I was just learning super new, super green. And I think I may have put something on my story maybe, or something like that, and maybe tagged you guys. And I didn't have any expectations. I just wanted to shout out. And then I think that we exchanged a DM. Well, maybe you replied to the story and we exchanged DMs and stuff like that. And I was surprised, but I was like, oh, I didn't really think anything of it.

But my first impression of you was super kind, super normal, genuinely curious, genuine period. And that's how you sounded on the show. When we started messaging, I was like, oh, this person's actually exactly who she says she is. There's no air or facade or anything like that. And I thought that was super cool. That was awesome. And especially in the space where a lot of people, I reckon, talk at their audience. I reckon you're just the same person, which I straight away stood out to me. And then fast forward down the line, way down the line, you invited me on as a guest. I want to say a couple, I want to say 2023, like two years ago, at least, if anyone wants to scroll back and try to find that. And then I felt that as well, talking to you on that. And then another, I came on one more time and I remember thinking that felt super normal, really chill, really easy. And then that's only when we started talking and you're like, would you want to be a co-host? And I was like, yeah. This is not word for word, but you said something like, I'm wondering whether I should just stay solo or I should have a guest like that. You should have a co-host. I talked to you.

Melanie Avalon
I forgot about that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Talked you into it. And then we just kept on talking off air and just sending voice notes, checking in, having super long chats, big chats on our mythical calls about everything. Fasting as well, obviously, and every life, food, everything.

And then it evolved into a real friendship. But my, to echo what I said, I thought you were super genuine, really fun, sincere, just a great person straight away.

Melanie Avalon
Aww. Okay, so it's interesting because I said I had my answer right away, but I actually don't, it was so long ago now, I don't remember, like I don't remember the first message that was sent or anything like that. I just remember that you were posting, I don't want to say a lot, but you were like sharing stories about the show, which I really appreciated. Like it's really, really, which is so listeners, like feel free to always share stuff about the show on Instagram. Like it's amazing, we love hearing from you and I love like re-sharing it. So I was really, really appreciative of that.

I do know my first impression, which you know. I thought Barry was like a teenager. Nothing wrong with teenagers. That's really funny. I just, I'm not gonna like, I'm not looking to like create a real friendship relationship with a teenager right now, like in my life. And I actually think, I now remember, I think that's what actually got us really talking because then I was Googling and figuring out that you were not a teenager, but I didn't believe it. Like I was like, this is not, this can't be accurate. So then I fact checked with Barry. And then I think that's when we started talking.

Barry Conrad
You really wanted to know, didn't you?

Melanie Avalon
So, oh, and I will say actually, I'm embarrassed about this, but I think, yeah, I think I thought, and it's funny because I get the same thing. Like I know people have given me this feedback, like people don't know me.

I didn't, how do I say this? I didn't know that you had the incredible emotional intelligence depth that you have. Like I kind of wrote you off as like an actor, which is horrible because like I grew up doing acting, but not like wrote you off, but I just thought you were like a really young teenage acting boy. I didn't know you become like one of my closest friends.

Barry Conrad
That's really nice and really funny as well. I don't take offense at all to that, by the way. It's really funny.

Melanie Avalon
I know I get it, like I know, like I read reviews where people are like this dumb blonde and stuff. So, but so I'm not proud of that, but that very quickly, quickly changed once we actually started talking.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's it's what it's actually source anyway, we could go down rabbit holes if we just keep lingering each question because there's so much to get through but it's it's so cool like our all this time and history it feels like we've known each other way longer than we actually have.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, although that would have been a while ago, right? Because if Jen was the co-host, wouldn't that be like at least like five years ago maybe?

Barry Conrad
2019 kind of thing, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh wow, almost like six or six years, seven years, maybe? Okay, so shall we do our next one? Time flies when you're having fun.

Barry Conrad
It does. Listeners, we hope they're enjoying this, by the way. The next question is, what episode or topic surprised you the most once we recorded it?

Melanie Avalon
So this one, something actually immediately came to mind for me. And it was, I think, because I think when we talked about, and it wasn't that long ago, but when we talked about this study, I feel like it became almost the entire conversation.

And it was the study about hedonic pleasure.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that's exactly mine.

Melanie Avalon
That was your answer.

Barry Conrad
Yes. We could just talk about it. We could just talk about it. It's great.

Melanie Avalon
So the study was called enjoyment or indulgence what draws the line in hedonic food consumption and it was published in 2022 in the international journal of hospitality management actually. But it was talking all about the difference between indulgent consumption which is what when we think of that we think of it being very like gratuitous and something to avoid and you know one of the seven deadly sins is gluttony but it was saying that there's a difference between solely indulgent like solely indulgent consumption versus hedonic consumption which is the idea of just appreciating the whatever you're consuming or indulging in but it's in line with your goals.

So basically like the theory was that or the hypothesis they were making was that whether or not something is hedonic or indulgent has to do with if it's supporting your goals or not and it was such an interesting conversation because we were talking about how you know we eat this one big meal a day at night and it's like this feast and all the things and because it's not in conflict with our goals it's not this potentially negative sort of consumption that that people might see as being you know overly pleasurable or hedonic and then I mean versus women and it was so interesting I really really enjoyed it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what came to me straight, like straight away when I saw this question, like that was the easy one for me to, I came up with the exact same topic. It was just, because it is so, you know, there's so many levels to that, you know, Mel, we talked about this offline as well.

Males versus women, body size, how that affects what you eat, you know, what the public societal pressures are around eating and, you know, and people feeling guilt, even people that do intermittent fasting feel guilt around, you know, what they have in their window. Is this too much? Why am I enjoying it so much? Shouldn't this be bad? It just, yeah, it's, you know, that there's a, you said something like there's a difference between eating for pleasure and eating to soothe. And the conversation shifted from science to humanity, Eric. And we, you know, the way someone might reach for food, you know, they're tired. If they're tired, we're overwhelmed or trying to feel something. And then we compare that to hedonic eating, which is almost celebratory, you know, it is, yeah, exactly what you said, Mel, lining up with your goals. So, you know, I think what shocked me most as well is, I guess, just suddenly understanding why some of that guilt could linger in knowing, finding out about this, you know, like, and why, when I'm breaking your fast, a long fast, now I ask myself, is this joy or is this habit, you know, and that tiny question does really change the whole experience. And that episode, like that understanding the difference can remove so much of the shame people carry around food, you know, so yeah, one of the best topics I reckon from this year for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it was absolutely amazing. And if listeners want to hear the whole episode, it was episode 447. So we will put a link to that in the show notes.

Awesome. Okay. So next question is what is one thing you learned this year about fasting that changed your own personal practice? So like a tweak, a timing, a protocol, a mindset shift, a new discovery.

Barry Conrad
I reckon this year, it taught me one of the biggest lessons I've learned because I learned the value of flexibility more so inside a structure rather than just sticking to the clock. As you know, Mel, because I've done 20 hours for ages now, almost like this ritual. And it is really helpful. It's really grounded me. It's supported my mental clarity and whatnot. And it fit into my training and my creativity and it worked and it does work.

But at some point this year, life forced me to sort of more rethink things. And I told you as well, Mel, I stopped using the Xero app. I used to use the Xero app to time my fast and that alone is a big step for me. But I realized I was becoming a bit attached to the timer and I didn't really need to rely on it anymore. So becoming more intuitive and not knowing that my fasting success doesn't depend on an app and using the app. So I guess just loosening my grip a bit more and trusting my body and going, all right, my body needs fuel earlier today or I feel great. So I keep fasting. And I think traveling and performing more this year as well taught me that. So yeah, that would probably be one of the biggest things I've learned just to be more flexible with my fasting because I'm still averaging 20 hours a day, but I don't have to stick to the exact time every single day.

Melanie Avalon
It's interesting because I remember having that conversation with you where you were thinking about, I think it was offline too, I think, when you were thinking about maybe not tracking it as much anymore. I think it was not on the podcast.

Barry Conrad
It wasn't. I was walking in Bondi, I think, and I was talking about it.

And also, even you say, like, you kind of just go, don't you say, Mel, like, I just kind of eat at night, and I know I'm always going to average, you know, there's only so long I can eat.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember, yeah, I remember having that conversation. Okay, this is really ironic for my answer because it's like similar but kind of the opposite. I think my trajectory has been with fasting. Yeah, now it's been, you know, how many years? I think I started fasting in 2012. So it's been like 15, wait, I can't do math, 15, 16 years almost. I know, like I feel intuitively, this is how it's similar, like I feel intuitively that one meal a day evening protocol is what works the best for me. Like it's just really what works for me, like it works for me.

And still, I've had for the longest time, like this feeling that, well, maybe it's not sustainable or like I need to be doing a different fasting pattern because maybe I should try ADF or maybe I should try eating earlier in the day or maybe I should, I don't know, like that I shouldn't be doing this high protein one meal a day thing forever. And I'm not saying that I won't change or won't do it forever. But I think I finally have gotten to the point and there wasn't like a specific moment where it happened. Although meeting you has been actually really helpful because you eat very similar as far as like the really high protein and the one meal a day. And then the one meal a day is sometimes at night, although you, like you're just talking about, you have it at different times. But you're a really good example of how that really can work and you can be really high performing and you can maintain muscle. Like you look amazing. So clearly all these concerns about muscle and only eating in a window is a problem. I mean, you're like an example of that. That's just not necessarily the case. So I think getting to co-host with you has made me feel a lot more confident about like just doing what I know works for me and keep doing it. And I don't have any intention of changing it. I don't feel tempted to change it. I will if that comes up, but I don't think I don't think it will. So yeah, it's interesting because it's like not that I'm less flexible, but I don't feel like I need to change it per se, like I was wondering before.

Barry Conrad
Wow. I had no idea you felt like that. Interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It's always like, maybe I should be, I think really it's like, maybe I should be eating earlier or why?

Just because even though I talk about it so much and I've done a lot of the research, there's just this pervasive idea that you need to be eating earlier for like the ultimate metabolic health or longevity or whatever, even though I've seen a lot of stuff to the contrary. So.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And Mel, don't you reckon as well, because you, even when you do your bloods and whatnot, they're always so great. So it's like the lab work supports what you're doing. And then it's so interesting that you can still sometimes have those thoughts come in, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. One more question.

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So, what is something about prepping for the episodes that listeners would never guess?

Melanie Avalon
Although now I'm thinking, and this actually relates to the answer, so it's perfect. Now I'm thinking the person who reads it a different order would work better because I just talk, so it would make more sense for you to talk, but the irony is this is part of my answer, which is that, which is that, listeners, you have no idea how much time I spend, I mean, it's not like a horrible amount of time, but, and this is, this is the way it's been since the beginning of the show, which was however many years ago, seven years ago, eight years ago.

I put a lot of thought, so I, like, I picked the, like the preparation, I picked the questions and then it's like a puzzle each week because there's so many different pieces that you have to figure out. You got to figure out the back and forth, like who asked what question so that the answer flow is like natural going back and forth, which like I said, I'm realizing in real time, I didn't think this through correctly for this episode. So it's that it's also like who, and this has been more or less has been a, actually, so with each co-host, they've had their unique strengths and like topics that they feel more confident talking about. So kind of making the answer, the lineup so that they get to lead off, like so that the person who is like most appropriate to answer it, like leads off with answering it, but then you have to be able to rotate back and forth. And sometimes like I have too many very questions, not enough Melanie questions or too many Melanie, not enough Barry. And then I've got to tie it in with the studies and then the restaurant at the end. So it's just kind of funny how much like time I do, like creating this puzzle. And then also listeners might like to know that we have this massive document of listener questions from the beginning, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of questions. So don't be surprised if we answer your question from like 2017, it could still happen. Sometimes I'm like looking for a specific topic. So I'll like go back in the archives of questions. So my weekly puzzle.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure I can speak for all the listeners when I say that myself as well, appreciate all the time that you put into it, Mel. So because listeners, I will then go to this massive document and then see all the questions and then that's where we start, I guess, preparing like our thoughts and one thing I guess people may not know like for myself, you know, yes, I don't come up with the questions, but I do put a lot of time and thought and intention and work into, into them too. And, and you know, because the show flows so naturally and Mel and I bounce of each other so easily, people might assume, Oh, we're just like showing up and talking and yeah, we do have a great rapport and we can talk, but you know, the truth is as well, like we have fun and also it's work, it's, it's effort. So something I really care about.

That's why I do it. So my process always starts when a listener question comes in, I sit with it. First, I let it live in the back of my mind for a bit. I like to go for a walk and when during those walks, I'll pull up my phone and record voice notes actually first.

Melanie Avalon
I didn't know that.

Barry Conrad
I'll sort of just see what comes out and all cuz like to go for long walks to sort of set my mind for the day or just to take a break and i'll think out loud first and explore different angles then. When i get home that's when the research part starts to me based on my notes and then.

So something i said on the walk needs a bit more science behind it or clear explanation or deeper understanding for example i'll sit down and and really look into it properly and. You know i care about accuracy because you know i'm new coming to the show as well and also for the sake of everyone tuning in we gotta give people grounded information that they can trust so i do that i'll cross check things you know revisit studies and whatnot and then i leave it i don't overwork it i don't scripted anything i let my brain sleep on it.

The next morning or usually would be like maybe the morning of recording day i'll revisit everything again with fresh eyes and thoughts and then. Sometimes new thoughts will come in and i'll rewrite something and sometimes i'll leave it as is but yeah that's sort of like my.

My process but yeah I really really really enjoy the preparation part of it a lot I geek out over I guess it's the actor side of like script analysis and stuff like that I just love there's no questions so exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I did not know that. I had no idea.

That's so amazing and something I will say, I really, really appreciate all the time and energy that you bring to the show and the preparation that you do. It really, really shows and I really, really, really appreciate it so much.

Barry Conrad
Thanks.

Melanie Avalon
So, all right. Well, listeners, we hope you enjoyed this anniversary part one. And shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment at an anniversary-worthy restaurant?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Can't wait.

Melanie Avalon
This is just like the obvious. OK, well, there were a few that were obvious, but we'd already done them.

This was the most obvious one. And the reason it's not the perfect restaurant is because I don't know necessarily that the food is like, you know, the most amazing thing. Have we done? Because I'm going to give two answers, but I'm not going to do one of them because we can't actually look at the menu anyways. We've talked about Victoria and Albert's, right? But we haven't actually, or have we done it?

Barry Conrad
I don't know if we've done it. I don't know if we've done it. Maybe we talked about it.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I would pick Victoria and Albert's, which is the, I think it's the only AAA restaurant in Florida that gets that award all the time, and it just got its first Michelin star, and it's at the Grand Floridian. I have never been, but apparently it's just like the most amazing thing, but it is a set price menu.

So that's what I probably would pick. However, this is a more approachable menu we can look through, and it's so magical. So I am voting for...

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to see it in suspense.

Melanie Avalon
and I've eaten at this restaurant two or three times.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. So you can vouch vouch.

Melanie Avalon
I can vouch for the vibe. It is Cinderella's Royal Table. It's the restaurant inside of the Magic Kingdom Castle. Did you know there was a restaurant inside of there?

Barry Conrad
I had no idea. No idea. Okay, I'm pulling it up right now. Wow. That looks like a... It looks like a set.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So basically, and so to clarify, this is inside of the Magic Kingdom castle, which is Cinderella's castle, not Sleeping Beauty castle at Disneyland.

So, but like the castle that people think of with Disney World, there's actually a rush, a restaurant inside of it. It's like you're inside of Cinderella's castle. Cinderella is there. I think Cinderella takes you to your, she's definitely like there. She like meets you. I'm trying to remember if she like takes you to your table. I think she did at least one time when I was there. I don't know if she does now, but she comes around as well. And then it's like a steakhouse, but there are windows. And so like when the fireworks go off, you can see fireworks and you're in Cinderella's castle. So like how perfect is that for an anniversary?

Barry Conrad
That actually is perfect. Some of the food's popping up already. Okay, I need to see this menu.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they do have a... Oh, it's a set price menu, but there are choices. Set price menus. Okay. This one I think I can make work.

But basically, so there's for the... This is the fairy tale dining dinner pricing. So 89 per adult for set price or 54 per child. So first you get a appetizer of the court. Oh, this actually works for me. I know what I'm getting.

Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting to. What are you gonna get? What are you gonna get?

Melanie Avalon
There's actually two things I like, but I am definitely going for the chilled jumbo shrimp and very, do we, okay, third time's the charm. Do we remember the difference between shrimp and prawns? I think I do.

Barry Conrad
Well, that prawns is just basically the right way to say it and shrimps the wrong way to say it. If it's in England and Australia, it's usually prawns, and if it's in America, it's usually...

Melanie Avalon
It was more nuanced. And I got it this time. So it was in the U.S., it's shrimp and we call it shrimp. In the U.K.

Barry Conrad
It's prons, and you call it.

Melanie Avalon
Because the restaurant that we did, because it got even more confusing, because in the UK versus Australia, one, they call it prawns and both, but I think in Australia it actually is prawns, and then in the UK it's often shrimp. So to confirm, yes, yes, that was correct. So USA, shrimp, typically shrimp, UK, called prawns, but usually shrimp, Australia, prawn, actually a prawn. We got it.

So yes, I am getting the chill jumbo shrimp, comes with avocado mousse, Fresno peppers, and tomato horseradish vinaigrette, and I will get all of that on the side. How about you? I think I know what you're getting.

Barry Conrad
Well, you're right in thinking I'll get the pork belly, but I'm also going to get the chilled Joe Murchcrum because it looks really good. And the crispy pork belly in brackets, it says party exclusive.

It comes with sweet potato puree, jacama slaw, chestnuts, and apple cranberry glaze. Yum.

Melanie Avalon
Tacoma. That's something else I like about us is that we can't pronounce anything. It's jicama, I think. I could be wrong, but the only reason I'm only correcting because I think it's like people might actually be like, jicama.

It might be in Australia. Who knows? You know what we should do? We should get three. We should get three orders so then we can get more food. Do you want to do that? So we could get like two shrimps and then the pork belly. Sounds great. So entree time.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how big, okay, you've eaten here before, right? So how big are there?

Melanie Avalon
a long time ago. I was probably on the kids menu at the time.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how big their portions are.

Melanie Avalon
Well, this is America, but there is also like shrinkflation happening. So in general, I have heard, I have like heard that. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
That's so, that's a funny term, shrinkflation.

Melanie Avalon
I'm between the filet and the lamb, but I think I'll get the grilled filet mignon, which comes with olive oil, whipped potatoes, roasted seasonal vegetables, garlic butter. I will get... I'll see if they can just give me like steamed spinach.

If not, they can just put everything on the side and I will get it as rare as they will give it to me.

Barry Conrad
Nice, and I'll get the roasted lamb chops. They come with potato pavé, asparagus, and honey balsamic glaze. I love chop so much, Mel, like I love lamb so much.

Melanie Avalon
Really? So do you want to get two orders of that?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I just don't want them to be like two little itty bitty chops, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And I want to taste, so let's get two lamb. And then the finale, this is the dessert.

Barry Conrad
the big finale, what is jumping out at you?

Melanie Avalon
nothing obviously. And it's a set price menu.

I wonder if they would bring me, like if they would bring me more shrimp. I feel like it's Disney. I feel like they would. That is something about, so something about Disney, they are insanely amazing about like accommodating dietary preferences and things like that. So I think I probably could say, you know, I can't have, I can't have sugar. So may I get some shrimp for dessert?

Barry Conrad
I'm sure they'll say yes.

Melanie Avalon
What would you get? I know what you would get. Maybe.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll get it's called the clock strikes 12. And it's chocolate ganache tart topped with salted caramel coffee moose delicious.

But then I'll also kind of feel like having the cheesecake. So maybe like to see got three, and I'm getting shrimp. So the jack and Gus

Melanie Avalon
Oh, are those the mice? I think those are the mice from Cinderella. I think Gus is, so I'm assuming. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
So Jack and Gus cheesecake and it's vanilla cheesecake with fresh fruit and garnishes. Yeah, there you go. So I've got the cheesecake and the chocolate ganache tart. It sounds pretty good to me.

Melanie Avalon
And then let's see, oh, they have their specialty cocktails. Oh, they have a celebration champagne flight. Too bad I don't really like champagne.

Barry Conrad
I'm getting that. I have to get it for the table. You know how I say it's for the table.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, for the table. That's perfect.

Then you get to have all of it. It's a, let's see, it's a blend. Let's see, a flight using the Enchante Champagne. Enchante, yeah. A blend of Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Pinot, Moonnay, sold exclusively at Walt Disney World. Oh, that's cool.

Barry Conrad
That is cool. So the celebration champion fly and then I have to go with the sunset margarita cuz I love me margarita So that's happening to any of these wines Getting the tick of approval mail

Melanie Avalon
The problem is, this is Disney, so it's going to be harder for me to, I can't bring a bottle of wine because you can't bring alcohol into the park, so I can't do that. So I literally have to sneak in my wine.

Good thing I'm good at that, but I'll make it work. You don't worry about me, I'll figure it out.

Barry Conrad
So two things I need to see you use your powers in the front row and then I need to see

Melanie Avalon
Sneaking and wine situation It's it's crazy. Very how much I'm like fine-tuning my skills with that. It's yeah, really? I've only gotten caught once

Barry Conrad
It's like a spy, you know, a wine spy.

Melanie Avalon
All I know is if you're super worried about it being a problem, you got to go under the clothes. Otherwise, you can try with the purse.

Barry Conrad
Purse? There's got to be a small bottle.

Melanie Avalon
I've like cut a contraption into my purse that can actually hold a decent amount.

Barry Conrad
Wow. See, so many things. I can't wait. It's gonna be great.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I should have kept going down. They have allergy friendly appetizers. So they say like what they can make. So they basically, they list the food and then they put who it's safe for. So like the chilled jumbo shrimp is safe for gluten, wheat allergies, egg allergies, fish allergies, peanut, tree nuts, or soy allergies.

Barry Conrad
I think that's actually really good and I think this is probably the first menu I've seen on the show that actually lists the smell from memory.

Melanie Avalon
all of the Disney restaurants, they should have this somewhere. It's normally on a different section, but they've put it on with the main thing. I'm just confirming that, yeah, okay, that's right.

Yeah. I was trying to make sure that they're not saying that's what it contains, that's who it's for, and that's who it's for. A lot of this stuff is gluten-free, but they make it gluten-free, I think. I think they're saying they can make it gluten-free. They probably adjust it.

Barry Conrad
Do you like eating gluten-free? Do you prefer eating gluten-free, or?

Melanie Avalon
Um, I mean, it's all the food I eat. So it kind of just like, I don't know. I don't even know, you know, it's hard to answer because like I, it's, it's the food I'd be eating and I would love the gluten food. Like it would taste amazing.

It would just wreck me and be like a drug in my body. Barry sent me a picture of fairy bread, which I, you know, isn't it weird that we don't have that here? It does not seem like such a, but probably not sweet enough, right? Cause isn't it just like bread and, and sprinkles and butter.

Barry Conrad
Exactly, but it's yeah, it's not for me. I don't like it, but I thought that you might like it

Melanie Avalon
I love the vibe of it. Does it have sugar and cinnamon on it, or is it just?

Barry Conrad
Well, the sprinkles are super sugary, but it doesn't have extra granulated sugar as well.

Melanie Avalon
Because I feel like the perfect manifestation for childhood was my mom used to make like cinnamon sugar bread. Is that a thing in Australia?

Barry Conrad
It sounds like it needs to be a thing in the apartment right now, so I can try it.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Well, what I'm saying, we should like you should we should put it together like we should make the fairy bread. So basically, you just take the bread, you toast it with butter and you put like cinnamon and sugar on it. It's so good.

And if it had it had its sprinkles on it, then it would just be like pure magical.

Barry Conrad
Wow, and you can watch me try it.

Melanie Avalon
yeah okay so well this was so amazing happy anniversary it was so fun oh wait hey the kids get they get short ribs on their menu

Barry Conrad
I like that. That caught your eye. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to ask for that for dessert. Can I have like some plain short ribs from the kids menu for my dessert?

Barry Conrad
It's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
They're so good. The sword in the sweet, a white chocolate sword and a chocolate and marshmallow mousse stone atop a cocoa soil. That sounds so cute. Oh my goodness. That's in the kid's menu. The kid's dessert.

Okay. Well, this has been absolutely amazing. Listeners, we hope you enjoyed spending this time with us and thank you just for spending so much time with us this past year and beyond that. And like I said, we would love, we love a listener questions. You can email them to questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and you can submit questions there. And the show notes will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 456. And that will have links to everything that we talked about. Definitely check it out. You can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad, the place that we met, Instagram. And the show is I have podcast. And also please feel free to share stuff on Instagram because we would love to reshare it. So Barry, anything from you before we go?

Barry Conrad
Listeners, we appreciate every single one of you for tuning in. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for spending this time with us, and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Bye!

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Jan 05

#455 – Food Digestion Times, Digestive Enzymes, Why People Quit Fasting, Eating For Fullness Vs. Taste, Fasting Sustainability, Health Mindsets Affecting Diet Adherence, Marathon Health Effects, Travel Tips And More!

⁠Breaking the fast: Meal patterns and beliefs about healthy eating style are associated with adherence to intermittent fasting diets⁠

Welcome to Episode 455 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 455 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 455 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, happy first episode of 2026.

Barry Conrad
Wild. It's so crazy. Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. This is a huge, huge episode. That's an amazing moment. I can't believe it's the new year. Crazy.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I can't believe 2026. Oh my goodness.

Barry Conrad
Far out. I know. How do you feel about January in general? Do you feel like it's a depressing month for you, or do you feel like it's an exciting month for you?

Some people are like, oh, it's another year, and some people are like, it's another year. So which one are you?

Melanie Avalon
So I've actually thought about this in that it's changed for me because growing up, January made me sad because it meant I felt like the whole year, like when you're a kid, I'm like looking forward to Christmas and then there's like, you know, like the Halloween season and the Thanksgiving season and the Christmas season and then it's like January, now we just have to wait a whole other year for, we know we have to wait for summer and then we have to wait for the holidays. But now as an adult, life is just so fun all the time and so amazing and the holiday season is the busiest for work.

So it's amazing. It also kind of wipes me out. So January is kind of like, huh, I can like breathe for a second, but it's still cold. So yeah, I love January. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Well we'll see because you don't apparently over here january will not so much January february march ish you're supposed to take a vacation somewhere sunny up because it's really really really really really cold in new york how does it get that bad in atlanta.

Melanie Avalon
No, it never gets bad here. I mean, it'll get, the coldest, it'll get like maybe like 19 degrees if there's like a really cold spell. That's nothing. Well, 19 is very cold.

Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, sorry, it's not 19 Celsius, it's...

Melanie Avalon
19 Fahrenheit.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Okay. That is not a thing at all. That's a lot.

Melanie Avalon
But it's normally like in the 30s, I feel.

Barry Conrad
I do like January because I like new beginnings are like a clean slate new chapter because it gives me a sense of anticipation and that there's new possibilities new breakthroughs to be had, you know, new more potential. That's exciting to me.

I love that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love it. I just I don't have one. I don't do like one like a new year. What is it New Year's resolutions? I don't really do that because I always have like a million resolutions going on.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I don't, I don't do resolutions anymore as well. I feel like it's just, it's a constant thing, right?

You constantly have goals and new things that you want to implement like all year. I mean, at least I do.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And then things like, here's what it is. If it's something that I would want to do all year, like a health thing, like a typical New Year's resolution, I would just want to do that indefinitely. So why would it be like for one year?

But then if it's something like a project, like I want to do this one thing, what are the, like, that, that has its own timeline relevant to itself. Like all the projects have their own timelines and they're starting at different times, ending at different times. So I mean, I support New Year's resolutions. I don't want to be like a Debbie Downer, but I don't do like one big resolution.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, same. Also, on that, there is something that I want to do in 2026 that I've decided I want to give a go. Do a half marathon.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa. Okay. Whoa. Whoa. Okay.

So, um, okay. So questions, questions, Barry. So you know what I'm thinking about? Thinking about how last episode you were saying that you talk about your diet and then the girls are like, you know, that's not so good for you. Um, how do you feel about marathons not being the best?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I feel like you're asking me, but you really tell me.

Melanie Avalon
How do you feel about the physiological effect of marathons on the human body?

Barry Conrad
I purposely like, I'm not going to do a marathon, but I was inspired to, especially after, you know, this is a while back now, but the lung situation has sort of put me off like running long distances. So I want to prove to myself that I can do at least a half.

I think that's more of a saying thing to try, you know, it's like not as crazy. It's still pretty far and long, but I started actually training. I went for my first run this week, actually, actually last weekend, I should say it wasn't long, but I actually was fine. So I reckon I'm going to smash it.

Melanie Avalon
You know what I feel like? Okay, I have quite a few thoughts. Thought one, I feel like this is gonna be another Barry Conrad thing where you'll just do it. You're just gonna be able to do it.

Barry Conrad
Would he be able to do it? What do you mean?

Melanie Avalon
Just like show up and run it.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean? Just like not trying? I have to try and I can't.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like you do a lot in life where it's like you just do it, you know, like, I'm gonna do this now and then you do it. And I will say I support people doing marathons with caveats. For a lot of people, it's like what they love, like it's a passion for them, they, you know, it's something really personal to them. I completely support that.

I also support just being aware of the effects of a full marathon on the body. And I think like Mark Sisson in his book, Born to Walk, I'm paraphrasing, which by the way, I met him finally, I met him at the Unimonia conference, I have to tell you about that. I think he says like, he had a protocol, it was like, do a marathon and never do it again or do it if you really want to do it, but don't keep doing it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think a lot. Well, I think, okay, because when I went to DC to support runners and stuff out there, you hear, you get those two things.

You get the one group of people who marathons their thing, like to do like several a year, which is just crazy to me how hard it is in your body. And then some who just want to go, yay. I want to try doing this thing and they just do one. That's it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah.

Barry Conrad
So I'll do a half and that's it. Well, I just, I feel like it'd be more like a, a goal for me in light of what happened and to say, yeah, I can do, I can run, I can do it.

I don't need to be a nonrunner just because of this thing that happened to me. And then after that, I can just leave it alone.

Melanie Avalon
I think that's amazing. I really do. Awesome. Keep us updated. When would you run it?

Barry Conrad
So it'll be like one of the New York marathons. So it'll be one of the New York runs. So to be, I think it's early next year. So I'm early this year, I should say 2026. So I will keep you posted for sure.

But Mel, I need to hear all about this conference, this convention.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Yeah, so we're recording a bit in the past and I just got back from the Unimonia conference and oh yeah, it was really fun. I met so many people, I met so many people and brands and people, people, like guests on the show that you guys have heard about. I got to hang out with friends, so let's see.

Well, I saw Dave Asprey, of course, we had matching glasses. I finally met Mark Sisson in real life and that was such a moment for me because I've had him on the show multiple times. He's one of the three, like there's three people who really inspired me for my current trajectory in life and that's Rob Wolf and Dave Asprey and Mark Sisson and I hadn't met, Mark Sisson was the only person I hadn't, well, I haven't met Rob in person but I feel like I know him better. I had not met Mark in person and I like went up to him at the booth and it's so funny. He was, so he, Barry, do you know what he looks like? Tell me. He is so fit, so fit, it is insane and he is how old? He's 72.

Barry Conrad
That is a ripped 72 year old man, like very, very impressed.

Melanie Avalon
But it's so funny because he looks so young, but talking to him, I was like, oh, he is kind of like a granddad situation because I had my glasses on inside, my hyperlight, which are like, I'll talk about those at another time. They're amazing.

They're blue light blocking, but they actually have C60, which is a supplement I've talked about as a supplement. They put this into the glasses and it actually transforms light into a beneficial light for the body. They're a big company in Europe. They're coming to the US. In any case, they had sent me three pairs of the glasses to wear around the conference. I was wearing one of the pairs inside and it was the one where you actually can't see your eyes. They're made for outdoors. He was like, take your glasses off. He made me take them off, kind of like a grandfather would be. I was like, no, I was like, the lighting in here is bad. I want to keep them on. He was like, I got to see your eyes. He made me take them off.

Barry Conrad
That's really granddaddy for sure. That's really funny though.

Melanie Avalon
Isn't it? And then we were taking the pictures and he's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, you have to take one without the glasses. Yeah. So that was absolutely amazing.

I actually didn't go to any of the speakers. I just went around the expo both days and then went out at night. But I met so like sunlight and saunas, of course. Oh, Crunchy, the makeup brand I talk about all the time, they were there and they have that was so exciting because I've had the founder on my show and they just randomly went because they're in Florida locally. So they've never been to like a biohacking type thing. So that was amazing to meet them in person.

I met, let's see, so upcoming podcast interviews I booked, I met this company called Neuropod. They make a big old nerve simulation device for your ears and they, they gave me one to take home. So I'm really excited to try that. I met with Essentia Mattress, which I have been trying to get them on the show for years, years, years, years, because I think they probably make the perfect mattress. Like literally, how do you feel about Mattress's barrier? Are you like a mattress snob? Like, do you have a?

Barry Conrad
It's got to be a good bed because sleep is king. Like if you don't sleep comfortably, then what are we doing? So yes.

Melanie Avalon
so important. And listeners know about my current mattress, which is the GOAT mattress. You probably remember that story, right? Yeah.

But this Asenjiya mattress, he's been formulating it for like decades and it does so many things. Like it's cooling, helps with like EMF protection, recovery. And it feels amazing. So they're gonna come on the show and they're gonna send me a mattress. I'm so excited.

Barry Conrad
That's so exciting. That's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
But actually Barry you so just a few funny things about it. I actually almost left the second day Because I was so wiped out the first day I don't know why but I really was and I was really stressed because this time of the year This isn't the past right now But it's like the busiest time with Black Friday coming up in Thanksgiving And I was like I could like just sneak home tomorrow and have like a whole extra day to catch up on work So that night I rescheduled my flight canceled my hotel for the next day I was gonna leave and then I woke up and I was like I want to stay so then I like changed it all back And I stayed

Barry Conrad
That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
I was gonna say I did speaking of wine. I don't know if we were talking about wine, but you and I were before you probably don't like ever bring wine when you travel. Do you?

Barry Conrad
No. I mean, I know that... Well, I don't... Do you travel with one, though? Let's fly with one.

Melanie Avalon
I do, in my packed luggage. So I bought four bottles of my own wine because you would think these conferences would have, I don't know, options, but they really don't.

So I stocked myself up and I brought my wine to everything. I went to one party though and they actually had all dried from wine. So I drink that there.

Barry Conrad
I'm so impressed now that you have never met again anyone that's trial like going to a dinner going to a show sneaking in a one or taking one is one thing but traveling that is next level. That's like, wow, that's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
I went to so many bars and drink situations. I forget, have you been to West Palm Beach before?

Barry Conrad
I really want to go, but I have not, sadly.

Melanie Avalon
So there's the, you would love, there's this hotel called the Breakers and it's like old school Hollywood glamour, like Hollywood Tower Hotel feeling and we went to the bar there and I brought my own wine. Like I drank my own wine everywhere.

Friends, if you're into the whole like biohacking stuff, go to Unimonia. There are so many incredible guests. So like Cynthia was speaking, Huberman was speaking, Mark Hyman, Dan Buettner, Rich Roll. I did want to go to Rich Roll and I didn't see him, you know, obviously like Dave Asprey like all the people are there. You can like go to the talks, you can go to this expo, try all these products, meet all these brands. It's, we got to go to one together someday, Mary.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, seriously, we know that I'm here. I would love, absolutely love to do that. We've got to do it for sure. Imagine how much fun we're going to have too.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, it's exhausting, but it's so fun. And it's just, you meet, okay, so A, you meet everybody you know. I'm like so many friends, but then you meet so many new people. So it's like stimulation overload of like all the people, but highly recommend.

Barry Conrad
What drew you to Mark Sisson in the first place? Was there a specific book that he wrote?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so he used to have a blog, does he still have it? I don't know, called Mark's Daily Apple. And it was kind of like the OG paleo blog. He called it primal. He came up with a primal diet, but like paleo primal. And then he had, okay, oh, he did the he did the primal blueprint, which kind of like made the primal paleo diet pretty popular. But he has so many books. But back in the day, I used to be always reading, I'd be like listening to Rob Wolf's podcast, I read the paleo solution, and I'd be reading Mark's Daily Apple.

Actually, he, I think he had something on intermittent fasting. He had he had content on it back on the back in the day that made intermittent fasting more popular as well.

Barry Conrad
And he did the cuter reset as well, right, so he's done quite a few.

Melanie Avalon
And his co-author is Brad Kearns who, shout out to Brad, one of my favorite humans in the entire world, a dear, dear friend. But now Mark's main focus is, I asked him if he was going to write another book.

He said he's like kind of done with books, but he would like to write a book for Paluba, which we've talked about Paluba. We've had him on the show for that and they make, you know, the barefoot type shoe. So he might do something about, about that. I think he was there. His, his booth was a Paluba booth.

Barry Conrad
Really? Yeah. That's when it fits your foot and maximizes what your toes are supposed to be doing rather than your feet being squeezed into shoes and changing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And oh, oh, shout out to you. Because if listeners listen to the biohacking podcast, I did, I paled around a lot with Ian Clark from Activation, who I've had on that show. And he's kind of like Dumbledore in real life. I love him.

So he's amazing. And then I hung out with Dave Rabin from Apollo Neuro and Barry, we must go.

Barry Conrad
We'll make something happen for short. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
I was telling my friend when I was debating about leaving, I was like, I've never left a conference early before, but I'm, I was just wiped out.

Barry Conrad
You were saying even yesterday or the day before that you really... traveling really wipes you out, doesn't it?

Melanie Avalon
It does. It's getting way better.

Barry Conrad
Is it the flying part like an isolation like the flying or is it like getting to the airport? Is it like what's the main thing that really wipes you out from it?

Melanie Avalon
It's getting all of my stuff that I need to sustain my life and feel happy and good into a suitcase across the country or on a plane. I mean, this wasn't across the country, but onto the plane, into the hotel.

It's getting my life and moving a miniature version of it, a slice of it, into a hotel room, which I did realize game changer. I think I'm only going to stay at a residence in Marriott, which is the suites where you have a kitchen. That's a game changer.

Barry Conrad
Of course, of course, because then you can prepare food, right, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's like the Airbnb because you have a kitchen, but it's like room service because it's a hotel. So I think I'm, if I think if I just stay at Suites like that from now on, I might be okay.

Barry Conrad
So, okay, question. If you could only take five things on a flight, I wouldn't go. on a trip, what would you take?

If you had to, had to, had to. Like, if you absolutely had to. Like, you could take all your clothes and shoes. Oh, like, if we make clothes and shoes. You could take all your clothes and shoes. It's more like five... Actually, no, let's make that harder. You can take all your clothes and shoes and make them and stuff or whatever, but three, like, biohacking type things that you really like and that you feel like you... Makes your traveling experience better. What would you choose and why?

Melanie Avalon
So does this include, do I get to bring like my supplements and stuff like that?

Barry Conrad
So that would be one of the three.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, Perry.

Barry Conrad
Let's supplement. That could be class class one thing like

Melanie Avalon
As one, okay, so supplements.

Barry Conrad
That's not so bad because someone says actually quite a lot.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that does cover actually a lot of it. My blue light blocking glasses. Last time I forgot them. I don't know how, but I did and I literally had to order some from Amazon because I need them that much.

Supplements.

Barry Conrad
blue light blocking glasses.

Melanie Avalon
So supplements includes my like, okay, that includes like my NAD patches and glutathione and stuff like that. Right. Okay. I I'm too embarrassed to say the third one. Say it. I don't think I can. Okay. And I won't do that.

Cause I could, um, let me think. Do you, what would your, well, you don't really, do you have three?

Barry Conrad
No, like, no, where are you? This is you. You have to choose it. Whatever it is.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I do have like a okay, so I like getting like colonics when I travel if things are which actually this relates to the first question today, I would bring my like my like colonic bucket thing, just in case I'm like stopped up and I can like fix that. Wow.

Yeah, it's like a whole system that I can fit in my Oh, wait, I forgot about my organic wine though.

Barry Conrad
Yes, I mean, the wine is... That's a biggie because you go to events and parties and stuff and you're not going to want to rely on their choices or not drink, right?

Melanie Avalon
So I might actually have to do, I might take out the Klonik bucket, organic wine supplements and blue light blocking glasses.

Barry Conrad
Wow, there you go. Okay. That's not so bad.

Melanie Avalon
You can't feel the anxiety in my body right now.

Barry Conrad
Because the supplements wouldn't take up that much room.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, Barry, Barry. This is part of the reason it's so stressful. They take up like half my suitcase. How? How? What do you mean? I have a lot of supplements.

Barry Conrad
Okay, next time you travel, okay, you don't have to do this, but if you want to, you take a photo. I want to see how much room it takes up.

Melanie Avalon
Shout out to Chris Gethin, we've talked about this. He brings a whole other suitcase for his supplements.

Barry Conrad
a mini one.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think so.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that's, I mean, you know what, you got to do it, you got to do whatever makes you feel good and, you know, for you to get through the day and, and to sleep well and to function at your best.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I will say now that we're out of the you can only pick three things game. A game changer that a friend told me that I have since integrated is bringing silk pillowcases.

So like bringing my blissy silk pillowcases game changer because then it makes your pillow cooler makes your your pillow more comfortable. So yes.

Barry Conrad
I love silk pillowcases by the way, I totally get that.

Melanie Avalon
So shall we talk about some intermittent fasting stuff? Let's do it. So I have a study. I am so excited about this study berry. Are you ready?

Barry Conrad
I'm ready for it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this study is called Breaking the Fast, Meal Patterns and Beliefs about Healthy Eating Style are associated with adherence to intermittent fasting diets. It was published in Appetite in 2019.

And so the purpose of this study was the researchers were saying that, and we talked about this last episode, but there's this whole idea out there that eating three meals a day is healthy and that skipping meals is problematic for health. So they wanted to see how this actually affected people doing intermittent fasting or not, like the beliefs surrounding things. So they had 312 people talk about their experience of intermittent fasting and their beliefs about healthy meals and snack frequency, and also their non-fasting days and their fasting day eating patterns. And they put them into current fasters and former fasters. And the former fasters were essentially people who had tried fasting but quit. And then the current ones were ones that were still doing it. So their theory was the people who were former, like they could see what sort of belief systems led people to quit intermittent fasting or to keep doing intermittent fasting. And they looked at some very specific things. So let's see if you can guess, you know, I like guessing games. So former, okay, so former fasters versus current fasters. What do you think they felt about eating three meals a day and snacks?

Barry Conrad
What do the former fastest think?

Melanie Avalon
So again, former fasters, that's going to be the category of people who quit fasting and then current are the ones keep doing it. So how do you think they felt in general about three meals a day?

Like whether it's healthy, whether it's not healthy?

Barry Conrad
I think that the formal fast is because they've quit fasting. I think that they think it's healthy and more sustainable for them.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So the former ones were more likely to believe that it's healthy to eat three meals a day with several snacks.

And okay, so this is fascinating. So when they were actually fasting, both the current fasteners and when the former fasteners were fasting, when do you think they were more likely to eat? And like what? So like what meals, what snacks? The win question though.

Barry Conrad
The when, okay. I would say afternoon, performer, performer. How about for current, for current, I would say more evening.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so you're really close. So former, they were more likely to eat breakfast, a mid-morning snack, a lunch, and a mid-afternoon snack. So they basically, that's the order that they listed in. So I guess they ate breakfast and then they had like a snack and then they had lunch and they had another snack and that was like their window.

These are the people who like ended up quitting intermittent fasting. The current fasteners, the ones still doing it, they tended to have dinner and a late evening snack.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, yep.

Melanie Avalon
so late night eaters. And then here are just some other things.

So former fasters, they were more likely to be concerned about the negative consequences of missing a meal. They were more likely to, this is big, we've talked about this before, to eat an anticipation of future hunger. And one other thing, but just to pause on that for a second. So basically, the ones that ended up quitting fasting were ones that were anticipating being hungry and would eat more, like an anticipation. Isn't that so interesting? And it's interesting because you would be doing that to keep doing your pattern adequately, but it seems like it had a non-sustainable effect. It made them not keep up with fasting.

Barry Conrad
It's like eating for future hunger, which is like, why do that? It's interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Although I definitely remember doing that. Did you ever do that? I remember doing that when I first started fasting.

Barry Conrad
I definitely, I think I definitely ate more than I probably will definitely ate more than I do now. Like maybe I thought, Oh, I've got to just eat, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And then this is one of my favorites. So the former fasters, they were more likely to prioritize fullness over taste when selecting food.

So when they were picking their meals, rather than eating what they wanted to eat for the taste, they would pick things that they thought would keep them full longer. And so the researchers were saying that that might have had an effect on the sustainability of the diet because they weren't happy with what they were eating.

Barry Conrad
So what kind of foods do they does it say in the study what sort of foods they were more attracted to then.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know if they said that just said they pick stuff that they thought would keep them fuller

Barry Conrad
That's so interesting to me because you want wouldn't you want to be eating things that you enjoy and look forward to what you want actually want to eat, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I know. And it's so interesting because it speaks to what we've talked about a lot, which is the importance of really enjoying your food.

And we talked about the hedonic pleasure versus I don't know, we talked about the role of pleasure in eating and how it doesn't have to be this negative thing that people associate it with. So they were basically saying that depending on what your mindset is surrounding all of this, following an IF diet can lead to feelings of missing out on the pleasure of eating or missing out on eating with family at mealtimes or feeling that fasting is otherwise disruptive to your schedule. And if so, it just makes it a lot less sustainable. So what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
It's a really interesting study meal. I think that what I keep thinking about when I hear this is the former fastest, a just didn't have a lot of fun doing it, you know, didn't really enjoy the process and it's almost like once that clock hit, you know, end of fast, just sort of gorge out on really, really filling food just to feel full and then sleep and go to the next day and you know, which is not really the point, it's about still eating nutritionally dense foods that you actually enjoy and it's about that feast and enjoying it, not enduring it.

You don't know what I mean? So that, so that's really stood out to me and it's not surprising at all based on what you shared that they quit because who, who, I would want to do that. I'd want to enjoy it. And, and also what was interesting to me was when you shared what with the when I actually don't, I probably they're definitely are people who for sure have a morning window for me personally. I think, I think an evening window maybe is better, well, personally speaking, because it's more social. You can also have like a little snack while you watch some TV and wind down. Like it's more like a winding down thing. Maybe that's a bit more sustainable for a lot of people. I'm guessing it is for me anyway, in that way. So yeah, it's interesting that the former fast is more morning slash afternoon. Yeah. What do you think about that?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's so interesting. I feel like this study touched on all the things we talk about all the time. I really do agree.

At least for me, having an eating window, just so much easier, easily aligns up with things. Also, since I'm such a wine drinker, and I don't like, I do not like day drinking, so that's kind of out the window doing an earlier window for me. It's really interesting though, just how, especially with, I guess this was 2019, so this was a while ago, but it's interesting that just how much the idea, the zeitgeist of you need to eat three meals a day, how much that affects whether or not people can sustain fasting.

Barry Conrad
And even eating the three meals within the fasted, um, in the any winner as well, you know, why is that it's such a embedded.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like the snacking aspect like the multiple like they gotta eat and then snack and then eat and then snack

Barry Conrad
I have done that like, you know, on, on days where just like my schedules has had to do that, but I just prefer to have my own med. It's just easier for me. I feel better doing it.

Melanie Avalon
I feel so good, even though we can debate what that means.

Barry Conrad
Oh, here we go. Shout out to Jim Stevens, though, G. What is one meal? What is it? Have a snack? Wait a little bit? Eat? Wait a little bit?

Melanie Avalon
Didn't we revisit that on one of our first episodes together?

Barry Conrad
We did actually, which is really funny. We have to find it and put it in the show notes.

Melanie Avalon
Like what season was it during our first episode? Like when was that? Do you remember?

Barry Conrad
I think it was summer for me in Bondi. We were talking, I do remember it was sunny for me, so it would have been summer. I'm pretty sure I could be wrong, but I think so. So like winter.

Melanie Avalon
for me. Have we had like a year anniversary? Did we miss that?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, we haven't even thought about this. Did we miss our anniversary? We should look this up.

Melanie Avalon
We both forgot our anniversary. It's fine. Wait, let me check. Let me check right now.

Barry Conrad
I can't believe I didn't even think about that because I think it was November. I think that the first episode I did with you was in a November, wasn't it?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness, Barry, guess what? So, this episode airs that we're recording right now. January 5th, next week is episode 4.56 on January 12th, 2026. Our first episode was January 13th of 2025.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow.

Melanie Avalon
So next week would be our one year anniversary what and I was gonna do a guest Episode for that, but I think I should change that because we should be here for that, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we should be here. Of course, we should be here for that. We should definitely do that. What should we do? Oh my gosh. Ah, this is... We need to talk about this on the Mythical. We need to...

Melanie Avalon
We gotta talk about this offline.

Barry Conrad
This is a big deal.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my gosh, next year is going to be our anniversary. Or the day before the day before anniversary. you

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but still it's like, you know, we get to, we should still celebrate on.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so offline on our mythical call, we'll figure this out.

Barry Conrad
Yep. You're hearing this in real-time listeners. This is happening.

Melanie Avalon
I know, listeners, this is how this show goes down.

Barry Conrad
Wow, that's exciting. Why did we think about that? Because you're talking about, yeah, how did we think about that?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I asked when, like, what time of the season was it that we were recording, yeah.

Barry Conrad
And then you said, wait, was that? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
whoa okay well on that note shall we jump into some listener questions let's do it and this is perfect timing because the first question relates to what I was talking about for one of the things I want to bring with me when I travel so would you like to read the question from Mary

Barry Conrad
If Mary on Facebook asks, from start to finish, how long does it take food to digest? How long does it take to go through your system?

Melanie Avalon
Okay Mary, thank you so much for this question. I probably have thought way too much about this question like throughout my life.

It blows my mind that some people never even think about this and I have thought about it so much and I've had like so many therapy sessions about this. Do you remember Barry when they did the, was it like the blue muffin challenge thing?

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Did you do it?

Barry Conrad
I didn't do it.

Melanie Avalon
I remember thinking this really shows me how different people's mind, like people's mental experience of the world can be. Because if I were to do something like that, that would give me so much anxiety.

Why? Because then I'd be thinking about like, how long is food potentially? Like what if it's like backed up or like not moving at a good rate through my system? It's like two. Yeah, two. I don't like to think about that. So yeah, and it blew my mind that some people like never think about that at all.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but no, like, sorry to interrupt as well, but also, I haven't really thought about that that much until now.

And you said, like, you had some therapies, what were you, what worried you about food digesting or concerned you or, yeah, tell me, I'm curious, I'm genuinely curious.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I went, I, I've talked about this on, hmm. I know I've talked about it on various biohacking podcasts that I've had and I've talked about it on me going on other podcasts, but I don't know if I've, I probably talked about on this show. I'm not sure.

But basically, I, I had a period of time where I was really hypothyroid and my digestion really slowed down. And I kind of got like at that time, and this was like in 2013, this was like, yeah, probably like 2013, 2013, 2014. I kind of developed like this mental complex fear, because I felt like I was like eating a lot of food, but nothing was moving through me. And so I, I started imagining like food fermenting and like a negative gut microbiome and like a toxic feeling like it made me feel very toxic. So I got I literally got like a fear of food not like moving through me like the way it should be.

Barry Conrad
Well, thanks for sharing that.

Melanie Avalon
Of course, yeah, so if other people have those, but then it was so mind-blowing to make some people like never think about it like at all, you know?

Barry Conrad
It makes me think about it now though.

Melanie Avalon
It made me realize too, it's so interesting, like just in general, like life fears, like there's so many things we could like be focused on or worried about. And it's all our choice what we focus on and get worried about.

So it's just interesting to me that like that was something that affected me so much and really distressed, like really stressed me out, but some people never think about it. And I'm sure there are so many other things that other people stress about that I never think about.

Barry Conrad
But also to be fair, if you were feeling bad as well, and if you had a hypothyroid, like it's very different. It's not like you were just like regular, regular, regular, and then all of a sudden I'm worried about digestion, you know, you had a reason to think about that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And it wasn't just hypothyroid. It was like mold. I was in a moldy apartment. I had carbon dioxide poisoning, heavy metal, like anemia, like all this stuff was going on. So that's why I'm so grateful for health. You know, they say like when you're, like when you're not healthy, like the one thing you want is your health back. Like when you're sick, the one thing you want is your health. And then when you're, no, when you're healthy, you want like the world or you want everything, but when you're sick, the only thing you want is your health. So shout out to people who may be experiencing anything like that, because it can get better.

I promise. Yeah. So Mary's question, food digestion time. I'm getting different answers for things, but in general, it looks like it can be anywhere from like 14 hours on the low end to up to 72 hours on the high end, like three days. Really? Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Oh my god, it's a long time.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but it's probably more like probably more like 14 to like 58 hours, but it you know It can take that that longs and so the digestive process Well, there's in your mouth, you know when you're chewing and swallowing and and that's where you first start breaking down Starches, so if you have any starch you have amylase in your saliva that can actually break down starches This is why if you have some bread and you chew it in your mouth for a really really long time It'll start tasting sweet because you actually break down the starch into more simple sugars But that's obviously like seconds or you know a minute.

Oh, which which by the way, well, I know the answer berry I don't know if I know the answer. I was gonna ask how much you like to your food or do you think about it?

Barry Conrad
You know what, I happily admit that I need to slow down because I inhale food. Like I just really smash it. I just go, I could afford to slow down.

Melanie Avalon
even like protein and steak and stuff.

Barry Conrad
I do definitely chew my protein more, but I can't afford to slow down more. It's a wonder that I don't actually have digestion issues because I do probably eat quicker than I do.

Melanie Avalon
Gotta get made of steel. For now. I feel like I chew a lot. I do, I don't know. I feel like I do chew a lot. And at restaurants, you know, I go really slow.

Barry Conrad
Like what? Give an example like five times?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. I don't really count the restaurants. I like really chew slowly.

Barry Conrad
That's good. It's mindful eating.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, uh, yeah, it's more like I don't want to like it's more about like social awareness, I think Then being mindful with the food

Barry Conrad
This goes all the way. Look away. Watch me.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, which by the way, I was reading an article yesterday about the proper way to cut steak at a restaurant and how to eat a steak at a restaurant properly.

Barry Conrad
How is it? What did they say?

Melanie Avalon
So you're supposed to, tell me if you do this, you're supposed to have the fork in your left hand, the knife in your right hand, put the fork onto the steak, cut off a very small bite, then switch hands, the fork goes into the right hand, and then you eat the one bite. And you're not supposed to pre-cut the whole steak, you're supposed to eat one bite at a time.

Barry Conrad
Okay, I don't switch hands. I've never done that. Have you done, do you do that? Well, I'm going to, next time I'm going to do it. Just try it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. Now we know. But back to the digestion, so then food goes into your stomach and in your stomach, that's where your stomach releases HCl, which is hydrochloric acid as well as digestive enzymes, which side note, I think the biggest game changer for me in my digestion is digestive enzymes, like the food combinations that I choose and then digestive enzymes. And I have launched my AvalonX digestive enzymes, they're called AvalonX Digest. They are the result of me finding the enzyme blend that I personally love the most historically, which was pure encapsulations, Digest Ultra, taking that formula essentially, and then removing what I didn't like about that formula, which was like the other additives and such, and then putting it into a glass bottle. So it's literally like my dream digestive enzymes. It will optimize change of digestion, help with digestive distress, it will help you absorb nutrients better. If you're trying to have more protein, it'll help you break down protein. Definitely get it friends.

It's at AvalonX.us. It's called AvalonX Digest. And you can use the code I have podcast to get a 10% discount on that. And you can also get a one time 15% code if you get on my email list at AvalonX.us slash email list. And you can get a one time 20% off code. If you text AvalonX, so Avalon A-B-A-L-O-N-X to 877-861-8318. That is AvalonX to 877-861-8318. Now that I sound like an ad, love digestive enzymes. They will help, they're released by the pancreas endogenously, your own digestive enzymes are, and they help break down food in your stomach. So again, that's two to six hours. And then food goes into the small intestine. That can be another like three to five hours. And also in the small intestine, you release enzymes as well. And then the majority of the transit time is in the large intestine, which is your colon. And that's where there can be another like 12 to 48 hours. So the whole process together can be anywhere from like, like I said, like 14 hours up to maybe 72 hours. Things that affect the speed of digestion is the type of food. So protein, fiber, and fat take longer to digest. Carbs are actually absorbed relatively quickly, especially simple carbs. So simple sugars and things like fruit, compared to starches, which do have to break down a little bit more, but all of them are absorbed faster than protein, fiber, and fat. And then fiber, you will hear things all over about fiber. You'll hear that it speeds up digestion, you'll hear that it slows it down. In general, it seems to show that fiber slows down digestion. But some people, I think like insoluble fiber might find that it speeds up, but in general, fiber probably slows it down. And then gender differences. So men tend to have a shorter transit time in their large intestine compared to women. Food digestion times. Do you have thoughts on all of that?

Barry Conrad
I feel like you answered that perfectly. I mean, you're really qualified to answer this by thinking about it so much.

Way too much. I do notice when I'm one thing that does help with digestion in general is making sure that you're drinking enough water, staying active, everything just flows better, literally, you know, get the drift. So yeah, I did it, you know, it's important. And also to pay attention to how you feel after different foods, you know, what you feel, searching your gut more, what's sticking around more. I didn't actually didn't know those figures and all, like that's quite a long time for up to 78, 58 to 72 hours. That's a long time to.

Melanie Avalon
And so that's another thing too is that I think this will really help people understand how complex it can be because you just mentioned how important it is to listen to your body. I just mentioned like multiple processes along the digestive process and things could go wonky at any, you know, at any point during that process.

So when you're reacting to a food. Like yesterday.

Barry Conrad
Which is interesting, right? Because that way, like sometimes if somebody has a funky gut the next day, it's like, they try to pinpoint, was it what I ate today? Was it last night for dinner? Like, what made me sick? And they try to think back, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And then like two other thoughts. So that's why doing like an elimination diet can be really important where you're eating the same thing over and over and then you add in one thing. So then you can really see Oh, it was that one thing.

And also this this can create kind of like a false, like a false positive with digestive issues because anytime you eat, even though you're eating at the top of this, like the mouth, it actually stimulates motility all throughout your GI track. So people can have an experience where there's distress and they're cold in, but they're not feeling it because it's not really moving and then they eat and then they feel bloating, but it's from food that was already there from like yesterday and they're colon. And it's just being stimulated from the eating process.

Barry Conrad
It's a process.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And I will say magnesium is a game changer for this as well, for motility. So you can also get my Avalon X magnesium 8. That really, really helps with that.

Barry Conrad
I wonder what, Melanie, I wonder what Mary's trainer thought, like what made her want to ask this question, if there's something bad that she ate, or it's just an interesting question to be asked, right? Like how long does it take for food to digest? Wonder what brought that on.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's so true. I mean, it's kind of like, it's like kind of like me, my past, like it'd be coming from a place of I don't I don't think I have the anxiety as much anymore.

Barry Conrad
The interesting thing for me is protein takes longer to digest and break down, right? And at the same time for me, I feel like it feels the most seamless for me to eat. Does that make sense?

Melanie Avalon
It does. And I actually was going to give this nuance. So I'm glad you're bringing it up.

Protein, like lean protein without fat, actually can digest faster. It's really the fat that really slows it down more. But I feel the same way like going back to what you're talking about, knowing what you're knowing your body and what food combinations work. Depending on the combination of food, I can definitely feel a difference of like how how fast it digests. And if I were to just like pure like lean protein, I digest that like really well.

Barry Conrad
It's interesting hearing those figures because it's almost like I don't even feel it, like I feel satiated but I don't feel bloated or full. You know what I'm trying to say?

It just feels easy to eat.

Melanie Avalon
So to bring this literally full circle from the beginning of the episode because I do have a lot of concerns with digestion because traveling can I feel like mess with people's digestion anyways and like just even normal people. Like I feel like normal people. I feel like a lot of people without digestive issues will have it when they travel.

So one of my like hacks for me personally and this is what I did on the at the eudaimonia conference, I will just eat some of the nights like just like just chicken like just because I won't get any digestive distress from that. Like I know it's like a safe food. Like you said, I like barely I don't even really feel it. If that makes sense.

Barry Conrad
You can eat lots and lots of it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And that's why a lot of people do carnivore diets and it radically helps their bloating and GI issues and stuff, just eating meat.

Barry Conrad
on this topic as well. I went to Olive Garden for the first time.

Melanie Avalon
For the first time?

Barry Conrad
for the first time.

Melanie Avalon
Did you feel like you were in Italy? Disney World doesn't even feel like a Disney World version of like, wait, it feels like a mass produced Disneyfied version.

Little bit low caliber, though, of Italy, not to like put down Olive Garden, but you know, it's like, it's a vibe. The theming is there. They play the music in the bathroom.

Barry Conrad
It blew my mind just how much food was being served and at such a like cheap price, but it's just like pounds and pounds and pounds, like what is happening? Where am I?

It was like a Disney Land for food for sure.

Melanie Avalon
I haven't been forever. Isn't it like unlimited, like stuff?

Barry Conrad
bread and 20 bucks for like unlimited pasta Melanie like what the heck what

Melanie Avalon
What loss did you get?

Barry Conrad
Well, you can change because basically after the first big plate, then you get to have unlimited like smaller plates of different parts of it. I started with fettuccine and then you can also pay like six bucks for like.

Melanie Avalon
Alfredo.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you can also get like proteins like sausage chicken and stuff but the point I'm trying to weave into this is that I definitely felt felt it felt that meal it was just you know it's just different. What is used to processing just the quality of it or yeah versus protein for example.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah.

And it's so interesting, like just speaking about that, because I think a lot of people, a lot of people think meat is really hard to digest and slows down digestion. And I just did mention protein about it being slow to digest. But if you're eating like clean protein without fermenting foods along with it, I mean, I just digest it really well. And I feel like a lot of people can and do.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it was delicious, but yeah, it's you definitely knowing what works. Your body is really, this is just so, so key just to enjoying eating, enjoying fasting, having a life that is just, just a quality, just a quality way of eating and just going through everyday life.

Like it's, it's a game changer. Cause if you're guessing constantly, is this good, is this bad? You're going to feel bad a lot of the time. It's really important to know what works for our bodies.

Melanie Avalon
It really, really is. That's why no pasta for me, unfortunately, or cheese. All right. Speaking of, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it!

Melanie Avalon
All right friends so this is our part of the show where we focus on the importance of what you eat in your eating window not just the fasting since we spent like the whole episode talking about our focus on eating anyways and we like to profile restaurants that we find where we think they have a cool vibe or something that is really intriguing or a nice menu.

So Barry what restaurant do you have for us today?

Barry Conrad
Well, the restaurant that I have for us today, Melanie, is in London in the UK. It's called Fen Church Restaurant, and I'll send you the link there. And why this place rocks is they offer a full, like, a la carte situation alongside a tasting option, so punters and people going to visit can choose exactly how they want to eat, which is what you'd like, whether you're in the mood for like one standout dish or like a full spread, which, you know, we'll probably get the full spread. It sits right at the top of the sky garden, which means the entire dining room is wrapped in like this high altitude, sweeping views of London. It's one of those spots where the setting becomes like the experience. So you'd like huge glass walls, dramatic city lights, lush indoor garden atmosphere. Oh, plants? Yeah. Wine-wise, they highlight an award-winning wine selection mill, which pairs beautifully with their modern European plates. It's the kind of list that invites you to explore a bit, whether you're in the mood for a clean white or something bold. The vibe is meant to be contemporary, airy, elegant. It's got that DRE destination restaurant energy without ever feeling stuffy. So perfect for people wanting somewhere impressive and scenic and a little glamorous AKA Melanie Avalon, but still relaxed enough for the good night out.

So let's get into it.

Melanie Avalon
Is DRE an acronym that's like used or did you come up with that just now?

Barry Conrad
I just can't for that.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love that you like throw it in like it's a thing, you know, some DRE energy, we just started saying that DRE, do you ever wonder how acronyms or like how things get started? Like who was the first person to say like a phrase and how it like took off? Like what if we're starting DRE right now?

Barry Conrad
We actually are, literally, so...

Melanie Avalon
We should start saying it to everybody and like just act like it's normal and then it'll take off.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that place has some, let's call it D-I-E, like destination ratio energy. Like, I feel like that's the thing.

Melanie Avalon
Do you know any good DRE restaurants around?

Barry Conrad
Have a good luck.

Melanie Avalon
Well, this is totally DRE energy. I love it. The windows, the plants, it's kind of like my apartment with windows and plants.

Barry Conrad
I thought you'd like it.

Melanie Avalon
I love it!

Barry Conrad
There's quite a few things there, so we'll go to the ala carte, there's also the tasting menu, but I reckon the ala carte situation would be good, and then there's also the tasting menu that's more like a set thing.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, it's a set one. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
ish.

Melanie Avalon
It is a sad menu.

Barry Conrad
I know you don't like that too.

Melanie Avalon
So should we go to the a la carte?

Barry Conrad
Let's go to the Ella cart and what I like about this as well, which I haven't seen before is listeners. If you go to the URL, it actually says they're like a snack while you wait delta dot, which is cool. Like that's even before the starters, which I love.

Melanie Avalon
is that do you think they do you think that's at the table or do you think it's literally while you're waiting oh wait probably for the food waiting for the food

Barry Conrad
Yeah, while you're waiting for your starters and mains to come out.

Melanie Avalon
So it's like a pre appetizer.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, which I love. I love that idea.

Melanie Avalon
That's fun. Okay. Should we start with that then? Yes.

Oh, and the first word. And I feel bad because I don't remember what we learned, but we learned, we learned the difference between prawns and shrimp, right? And who uses what and what it more likely is. Okay, wait. So the US uses shrimp and it's most likely going to be shrimp, right? And then prawns is, I don't remember. There was like two options for Europe. Like one option they use prawns and it was more likely prawns, I think. And one option it was prawns, but it was more likely shrimp, maybe.

Barry Conrad
Okay, so the main difference between prawns and shrimp are the prawns that have claws, while prawns often appear larger, shrimp are smaller and more curved.

Melanie Avalon
Really? We found out though, like the name. Hold on, I'm gonna find it. I think it was in my chat history. Let's see. Oh, I found it.

So, okay, yeah. So the US, maybe we will learn this eventually. So in the US, we more likely call it shrimp and it typically is shrimp. In the UK, they call it prawns and it's most likely cold water prawns, which are actually shrimp. So the UK, they call it prawns, but it's more likely shrimp, even though they're cold water prawns. Australia, you people, they actually say prawn and it actually is more likely to mean a prawn.

Barry Conrad
That's very confusing.

Melanie Avalon
So this is UK, right? Yeah, this is the UK. This is probably going to be a cold water prawn, either a northern prawn or a warm water prawn, but it's actually a type of shrimp.

Barry Conrad
But also listening is just letting you know it's going to it's pretty much the same. Same like it's going to taste, it's going to give you that same taste, look, everything. It's a miracle.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if I've had prawns, like real prawns.

Barry Conrad
You probably have with a, it's basically like a prawn. Well, it doesn't sound as cool as a shrimp cocktail, prawn cocktail. A prawn cocktail. A PC. A PC.

Melanie Avalon
Let's just start talking in acronyms. Let's have a PC at the DRE.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. There are a few things there. What's anything catching your eye?

Melanie Avalon
Obviously, I got to get, well, wait, but it's going to be shrimp, but I'm going to get the prawns, which come with pickled seaweed, green curry, and coriander. And as we know, these prawns are most likely shrimp.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna get oh I'm gonna get that also the glazed chicken wings and whiskey barbecue which I love chicken wings and then gotta get a rock oyster.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I was going to say I skipped over the oyster.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, cucumber, Vietnamese dressing, so those three, because it's little things, I think. I feel like the trinkets are not really... Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Trinkets, which is also a Barry Conrad word, which you use that word like it's a normal word like

Barry Conrad
I do, yeah. Just go with it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, are you gonna get a signature cocktail? I'm going in order are you gonna get a signature cocktail or a sparkling champagne?

Barry Conrad
You know what I feel like this place is giving me champagne vibes. I don't know why I don't normally go there But I reckon let's do it Don't print on belong.

Give me glass of that. Maybe get a bottle bottle of that

Melanie Avalon
You know, I don't really like champagne or sparkling wine.

Barry Conrad
You said this before, but I can't remember the reason why.

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's normally too sweet, but I don't like the carbonation, even though it's not that intense, because of, speaking of digestive issues, it's funny, carbonation, some people that really helps their digestion, some people it upsets it, it upsets mine, but they tend to be sweeter, the champagne, and I get headaches from champagne, I don't know why.

Barry Conrad
But I feel like my mom, for example, gets headache from champagne if it's bad champagne, but if it's expensive, good champagne, she doesn't.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I did I had a defining moment because dry from wine sent me a bottle of some I don't know if it was champagne or I think it was champagne. And so it was like the perfect chance to try like a low alcohol low sugar organic champagne. And I liked it but I still I just don't like we had it on my birthday with my family and I so I had like a sip but then I you know kind of gave it to everybody else.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I kind of want to actually try to drive home wines now that I'm here.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I know. We got to get you set up. You got to get some.

Barry Conrad
got to do it. So Champagne, are you gonna have anything to drink while we wait? With your while we wait?

Melanie Avalon
Do they have a wine list?

Barry Conrad
Yes, they do. If you go back to the main thing and go to one list, there's the middle one there.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so looking at the wine, okay, so they have a sommelier selection wines of the month. They buy the glass though. Oh, buy the glass. Oh, this is a, wait a second, wines by the glass. Oh my goodness, they have a corvan. Okay, so that means that you can taste really expensive wines that normally would not be by the glass. I feel really good about this menu. I would have to, they have a lot of French wines, so that's good. I'd have to look through the wines, but I would probably look at the, well, maybe start with a rosé, one of the French rosés, or one of the French red corvan options. So they've got a burgundy. Yeah, I would look, I would look those up, but they've got a lot of good options. This was a good wine list.

Okay, back to the menu.

Barry Conrad
Jump to our a la carte starter section, which over here, again, listeners, Melanie won't like this because they're calling it how we, how we say it in Australia. It's not like the.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they're using the word main for the main for them.

Barry Conrad
You're like, what is this?

Melanie Avalon
I do like the word starter because it's very universal. You know, like you say starter, I know what you're saying, I say it, you know what I'm saying.

But when we go down the route of like entree, now you're saying, yeah, then we're done. Well, before that, are you gonna have some of the sourdough bread?

Barry Conrad
Absolutely. Got a, I love a good sourdough bread. I feel like it's good on my gut.

So definitely have some fresh sourdough bread with some, it comes with caramelized onion, artichoke, aged balsamic butter. Let's go.

Melanie Avalon
I see what you did there.

Barry Conrad
Seated LaRouche.

Melanie Avalon
skip the word that he didn't know.

Barry Conrad
Seated Lavroche, Cara Vila's Artichoke. I wonder if anyone ever listens, like, look this up at the same time and go, you got that wrong, you got that wrong, got that wrong.

Melanie Avalon
sneaky sneaky trying to like skip the words okay starters oh okay oh oh oh i see i see things i see two things i want same so do you want to go back and forth

Barry Conrad
You go first, you stand on us.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'll get the cured jerk salmon. Although I need to talk actually, that's a maybe I have to talk to them, because it might it's probably cured in like some sort of seasoning and that seasoning might have like sugar and a lot of stuff in it. So if it's cured, and it doesn't have a lot of additives, I will get that it comes with spring onion and green mango, yuzu ponzu and plantain chips, I'll get that on the side. So that's my first one.

Should I do my second one? Or do you want to go?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you do for the corner.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and then I'm gonna get steak tartare, of course, which comes with spice relish, smoked mayo, cured yolk, and crispy potato, rusty. But, and I always get my steak tartare deconstructed.

And just so you know, friends, restaurants do this. I've done this at so many restaurants. Have you ever seen or ordered deconstructed steak tartare? No. Cause you know how like normally like tartare is like, it's the steak mixed with all that stuff. So they bring it out in separate bowls, like the steak, the egg, the relish.

Barry Conrad
Good to know, actually. So how about you?

I'm going to go to the crab rigatoni, but they have an orange font there to the side of lobster. So if you can maybe substitute lobster instead of crab, I think that's what that means. I'll get that.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if it's adding crab or substituting.

Barry Conrad
If it's an ad, I'll take both. It's courgette, confit, lemon, roast smoked butter sauce. It sounds delicious.

And then I'm also going to do the steak tart as well. And also because you're deconstructing yours, I've never tried it before. I'm going to do that as well.

Melanie Avalon
Experience really? Yeah.

I mean, okay, you might want to get it not deconstructed though because it's not that exciting It's really only if you want to eat like steak plain then. Oh, no, you don't want to like mimic me here This is not like a mimic Melanie situation

Barry Conrad
So we're going to go into the mains. Look pretty good. Yeah. Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, oh, I see exactly what I want. This is so easy.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they have one of my favorites. What are you going to choose? The Suffolk Wild Venison Loin. So I love venison.

Shout out to Maui Nui. We love Maui Nui venison. So it comes with curried sausage. Oh, a curried sausage roll, beetroot. I should know how to say this because it's a very common thing. I've never said it out loud. Celeriac. I've never said it out loud. Celeriac. I know what it is. Purple cabbage and Huntsman sauce. So I will get all of that on the side and cooked rare. Oh, wait. Oh, they have a to share. They have a ribeye and they have a crust. They have a veal chop. I love veal.

Barry Conrad
The real topic, he sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Do you think they can like half crust it? What do you mean half? Can we order a veal chop half Parmesan crusted?

Barry Conrad
We could ask.

Melanie Avalon
Remember what we talked about on the cheese episode parmesan is like

Barry Conrad
Yeah, high protein. It's high protein though.

Melanie Avalon
I love veal chop though, this is hard.

Barry Conrad
Well, you could we could ask and if they don't, you could always like take a tiny bite and see how it feels to eat it.

Melanie Avalon
Could we like get it that way? And then can you cut me a bite from the center?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, this is going to be such an extra. This is going to be so fun. I'm going to get the peppered lomina lamb. I love lamb so much. Pickled cucumber, black garlic, gungio peas, couscous. It sounds really, really good.

Yum. And then the parmesan crusted veal chop. Yeah, we'll share that. And then sides. Do you want any sides, Mel? How are we getting the veal chop prepared? We'll ask for the half crust and we'll see what they say. You mean, how do you want it?

Melanie Avalon
Like, rare?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we'll do right, I could do right.

Melanie Avalon
We can do like rare plus or medium rare if you insist.

Barry Conrad
Very plus, maybe very plus, and then sides got to try those truffle new potato, love potatoes. So I've got to do that.

And, Hmm, what else looks good there? No sides, because I feel like their portions are going to be massive. So.

Melanie Avalon
are going to be or will not be.

Barry Conrad
What weren't because from memory, like the portions in the UK aren't that big, like they're pretty conservative.

Melanie Avalon
I'm good on sides. So I mean, I would have if you got the broccoli, I might have like a broccoli, a broccoli.

Barry Conrad
And then, let's go to the Desserts menu.

Melanie Avalon
Also wait quick question. Yes, so broccoli cauliflower and then the the broccoli cauliflower situation I don't have you seen that it's like cauliflower, but it's green.

Do you know I'm talking about no I'm not seeing it right now, but broccoli or cauliflower. What do you like better?

Barry Conrad
That's odd because my mom used to make this cauliflower with like white creamy sauce, which is amazing, but I probably eat more broccoli, personally, like cook more broccoli, but I do love cauliflower as well.

Melanie Avalon
same and I found it type in romanesco it's like romanesco oh wow isn't that wild it's like broccoli cauliflower hybrid it's like

Barry Conrad
a Commutant.

Melanie Avalon
I know. It looks cool. Okay, and then are we getting dessert?

Barry Conrad
We have to check out that dessert menu. It looks pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
Let us see. I also want to look I'm gonna look really quick at the tasting menu. I want to see oh and the set menu. I just got to make sure there's nothing like oh man the tasting menu has

Barry Conrad
We could always ask, can you make an exception and.

Melanie Avalon
They have a grilled venison.

Barry Conrad
Well, they do have different things. They have joke, salmon, and ceviche.

Melanie Avalon
Then they have a tis the seat of vegetarian.

Barry Conrad
We could ask about the Google venison, you never know.

Melanie Avalon
Chef set menu. What's on that? Okay, okay, I'm good. Um, so desserts.

Barry Conrad
Desserts. Is anything catching your eye?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, let's see. So for dessert, I think I will get... Probably just get more of whatever I like the most from before.

So maybe the tartare, maybe the salmon, maybe the prawns, probably like one of those.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go with the Chef Kurth Gums seasonal souffle, which is orange and dark chocolate, candied lemon, marble cake. Yum, that sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. Are you going to get an after dinner?

Barry Conrad
Yeah there's others also got to do a i want to old-fashioned actually an age old-fashioned belay bourbon and rywhiskey demerara sugar and gusto and orange bitters that sounds like a smash sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. What about you?

I'll just keep sipping on the wine. It looks like they had a lot of wine, so I might... Sometimes for dessert, I might go like the white wine route. Like I know a lot of people go like white wine and then red wine, but I kind of like to like have the red wine and then like end with a white wine. Awesome, awesome. Well, good find. We will have to visit.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I know. Well, just any of the many restaurants, I can't wait for our first meal. It's going to be so much fun.

Melanie Avalon
I know which our first meal

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's got to be a good one. It's got to be great. It can't be all of good on a comfy.

Melanie Avalon
Lots of pressure. If you come to Atlanta, we might... Well, I don't know. You know, my favorite restaurant is Lazy Betty, Michelin Stars, all the things, but it is a set price menu. So that's kind of complicated, but I've never eaten there and it's like my favorite restaurant.

So that might need to happen. I would just have to do like a... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if we should eat at a set price restaurant though, because we order like some... Maybe not.

Barry Conrad
Because we like to choose things.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and we like a lot of food. So maybe not backtrack. We'll think about it. We'll brainstorm. So awesome find and friends, we hope you had the best time with us today.

Thank you so so much for being here. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 455. Those show notes will have links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And then if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. You can also ask questions in our Facebook group, I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. And you can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. And then lastly, follow us on Instagram. We are I have podcast, I have Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. I think that's all the things Barry. Now we have to go figure out what we're going to do next week for our anniversary.

Barry Conrad
Yes, we have to.

Melanie Avalon
We gotta figure that out but this has been so so fun anything from you before we go.

Barry Conrad
Now thank you so much listeners for tuning in. We'll catch you next week. Can't wait!

Melanie Avalon
and happy 2026 to everybody!

Barry Conrad
FA2026, everyone! Bye!

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Dec 29

#454 – New Year’s Eve, Cheese As A Protein Source, Carnitine And Autophagy, Fearing Animal And Plant Protein, Cancer And Animal Protein, Dairy And Weight Loss, Cellular Mitophagy, And More!

Welcome to Episode 454 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 454 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 454 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. I'm so much better now because I'm talking to you. So that's really exciting.

And yeah, it's been an amazing day. And it's even better now that I'm doing the pod. So it's been a little second since we've done the pod. So exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Likewise, I'm trying to see when this airs so we get an idea of where listeners are and their trajectory of life.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we need to know, where are we going to be?

Melanie Avalon
We should probably check that on the regular before we jump in. So this, oh my goodness, Barry, this airs December 29th.

Barry Conrad
What? That is wild. That's crazy. That means it's, we literally, like, New Year's Eve Eve-ish. Eve Eve Eve.

Melanie Avalon
Do you like New Year's Eve?

Barry Conrad
I love it because there's a sense of expectation, excitement, possibilities for what the next year could hold. Do you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
I do. I have thoughts about New Year's Eve. Tell me. So everything you just said, yes. It's exciting. It's fun. I like how people dress up for it. It's like a classy holiday, you know?

Well, depending on where you go, but it can be. And then, although ironically enough, people might think that I, since I'm such a night owl, that I wouldn't mind it being so late. But I actually don't like being like out at midnight, you know? Like, that's late.

Barry Conrad
on this this is news to me because usually

Melanie Avalon
Wait, really? We haven't talked about this?

Barry Conrad
No, because usually because as listeners who have been listening for a while know, Melanie Avalon is the queen of being a night owl. So I'm surprised that there's a difference between being out late at night and then just being up late at home.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, there's a whole wind down process. Like when you're going home, I've still got another like three or four or five hours. So if I am going home after midnight, then that's really pushing things back. I like to be going home in the 11s.

But like with New Year's, I mean, I know that's not like a huge difference, but like in New Year's, you're like waiting for midnight for the actual event to happen rather than like be over.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Okay. What about like an average Saturday night or like Friday night when you go out and you do your the dress and the whole situation? Do you get back before midnight usually or after?

Melanie Avalon
Well, no, I do get back after midnight, but it doesn't make sense, Barry, but there's something about going out for normal events where the event is starting at like seven or eight compared to like waiting all the way until midnight for like the thing, even though then it's kind of over. So I don't know.

Something I do like though. So have we talked about New Year's at all? Like our feelings about it? No, no, no. Do you know my favorite thing is about New Year's Day? What? It's like the one day where everybody is hungover. So if you're not feeling well, you feel like you're like misery loves company. Like everybody's, like you don't have to be productive that day because nobody's feeling good. I mean, some people are.

Barry Conrad
No one's feeling good.

Melanie Avalon
I am, sometimes.

Barry Conrad
Well, do you have any plans? I mean, even though, okay, this is airing two days before New Year's, but do you have any plans in a couple of days if you were in the future right now?

What are you doing for this?

Melanie Avalon
I do, are you? Not yet. I mean, I think... Do you want to come? To my plans?

Barry Conrad
What are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
We're going to go to the aquarium again, the Sips Under the Sea thing, where they have the drinks with the fishes.

Barry Conrad
You love that. Actually, we're going to be upstate. We're going to be upstate at that house. Yes, in the snow. Oh, that's fun.

It's not the aquarium though. It's not under the sea with, you know, stuff, fit, swimming everywhere and having drinks and everything.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Do you think it bothers the fish that, like, does that mess up their circadian rhythms? Do fish, I don't know, do fish like sleep? Whoa, I have never thought about this.

Because when you're under the ocean, I mean, how far down do you go before, like, the light doesn't change?

Barry Conrad
I mean, I guess the good thing is they can kind of swim away, but maybe they see it as like who's coming this year. Maybe it's like a game to them.

I'm like, I wonder who's going to be back this year at this party, you know?

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to watch them and see how they feel about this.

Barry Conrad
But what happens at the party? Is there a format or is it just sort of drinks, drinks, drinks up until 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I haven't been to the Aquarium's New Year's, but I've been to their Halloween and their St. Patrick's and there are like a lot of other ones. So, and typically it's, there's dancing, everything's decorated. Oh, I think for New Year's, they, it's more classy. So I think there's like catering and I think you dress up really nicely.

All the exhibits are open for friends. This is the Georgia Aquarium, which is the largest aquarium in the Western hemisphere. I highly recommend it. It's amazing. It feels like Disney World, except like just ocean themed. Yeah, and then, yeah, I guess like there's the countdown. It'll be fun. The past two years, I actually went to the same party. It was like a rooftop, fancy party thing, downtown.

Barry Conrad
Are you going to dress up as anything aquarium themed, maybe, or not really? It's not. How do you even do that?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, now you got me thinking, cuz New Year's, man, now I have to wear blue sparkles, I guess.

Barry Conrad
Well, you kind of have to because I feel like you do every single big occasion, you always dress up, right?

Melanie Avalon
Now I have to get like a really sparkly blue dress.

Barry Conrad
Do it, do it, do it. Might as well go, you know, end it big.

Melanie Avalon
I'm sold. You must dress up even if you're just like at home. You won't be at home, right? You'll do something.

Barry Conrad
No, there'll be stuff happening. I'll dress up for sure. It's not going to just be, you know, sweats or anything. We'll do something festive. Be good.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like when I hear this upstate concept, I'm thinking that you're like in a cabin and there's like nothing around.

Barry Conrad
Well, it's kind of like a bougie cabin. It's not really a cabin. It's like a massive, massive house. It's really nice.

There's a town there. But who knows? Maybe we'll come back early. Maybe there's something happening in the town. We have to plan that.

Melanie Avalon
your first wait no no no wait wait wait yeah is this wait is this your first u.s new years

Barry Conrad
This is my first ever US news ever.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness.

Barry Conrad
Big deal. Big, big first.

Melanie Avalon
I can't believe you're not going to, I mean, I can because you're not going to be there, but I feel like the most famous New Year's Eve place to be on New Year's is New York City.

Barry Conrad
I know. Well, maybe we'll, I don't know, maybe we'll be back by the 29th, you know, after Christmas. Maybe after Boxing Day, we'll come back to the city. Maybe, probably.

Melanie Avalon
Would you go down there for like Times Square, like the whole thing?

Barry Conrad
Are you ever back in the city it's got to be a vibe is going to be something and if not it's going to be a party that's like crazy or some. It's all happening we're not just going to be chilling on new year's eve no way.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Speaking of parties, just so we don't get too far behind, can I very, very briefly tell you about my first world problems for my birthday? Also happy belay.

Barry Conrad
Gated birthday again, Mel. Amazing, tell me.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Okay, I'll make this very I'll make this a very truncated short version was supposed to go see a comedian Taylor Tomlinson. She canceled her show had to scramble and find something else to go to because we had a group of like 15 people decided to go to Cirque du Soleil. And here comes my first world problems.

So have you been to Cirque du Soleil?

Barry Conrad
I haven't, but I've always wanted to go, always.

Melanie Avalon
I have, but I've been to one that was at a touring arena and I've been to one at the Fox Theater. I have not been to like the tent version, like the OG, like, you know, like the ones in the tents, like that vibe.

So nobody told me that they're not climate controlled and that like the bathrooms are a porta potty situation. So Barry literally, and what's really ironic is that like the next day we got an insane like freeze thing. So like the next day would have been perfect because it was like 20 degrees, but that day it was warm. It was hot. It was humid. So I was in my big gown. So literally Barry for the first half of that show, and I don't like drinking when I'm hot and humid and uncomfortable. So for the first half of that show, this is so horrible. I was literally just complaining in my head about how uncomfortable I was.

Barry Conrad
This is really hot, really annoyingly hot.

Melanie Avalon
I was just not happy because it was my birthday. I was supposed to be like in climate control. That's all.

And then like the bathroom situation was porta-potties. I was having flashbacks, doing background acting for six months. Like, but I survived.

Barry Conrad
That's actually very funny visual because I'm picturing it now and just you sighing and kind of like, this is not ideal. Why is this happening?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and then I'm judging myself because I'm like, Melanie, like this is an incredible show, you need to watch it, not complain. So it's like, it's just like a conversation in my head for an hour and a half like that.

Barry Conrad
Do you think any of the performers like clock to a unit frustration or did you make eye contact with him like how you do at the theater shows.

Melanie Avalon
That's a funny thing. I made a lot of eye contact. They were making a lot of eye contact. I wasn't even thinking about it.

Later my mom came up, she was like, that one guy just kept coming over and looking at you. I was like, I was not paying attention, but that's great. But it was really fun, regardless.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. I want to see some more photos. You gotta see me some more so I can see.

Melanie Avalon
I will. And then we went another shout out.

We went to Lazy Buddy, my favorite Michelin-starred restaurant in Atlanta after. They kept it open for us because they were closed and I had drinks and it was amazing. So that's my story.

Barry Conrad
How do you feel being another year advanced? I should say advanced.

Melanie Avalon
We don't really talk about it, but...

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I didn't want to say older because you know, like it's how you feel so advanced.

Melanie Avalon
Another year younger. I feel great.

Actually, I, I really appreciate life is amazing. I love this show. I love podcasting. I love biohacking. I love creating products. I'm so grateful for friends and family. So I am happy. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Well, that's exciting, but also you're deflecting.

Melanie Avalon
Your turn.

Barry Conrad
No, that's really great. I'm so happy for you and hoping that this next year is all you wanted to be. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
Same to you and to friends listening in real-time. Happy last days of 2025 and happy new year to everybody.

Barry Conrad
Happy last days of 2020. This is wild. Have the best time, everyone, and be safe.

Melanie Avalon
I know. This means we're, we are closer, we will be closer to 2030 than 2020. Probably a good thing. Well, I guess we'll find out.

Barry Conrad
Yo, we will find a TBC dot dot dot.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Should we jump into things? Anything else?

Barry Conrad
I think we should. Also, I was going to say, if we have time, I just did my annual physical last week, like with blood work and stuff, Mel. I was kind of nervous, like, you know, I don't know why I get nervous before doing bloods because I should be confident about it, but the results were awesome.

The doctor basically said that they are the results that someone at least 10 years or more younger than me would have, especially my lipopenna, like HDL, my cholesterol, my triglycerides. And, you know, basically, you know, I'm a volume eater, you and me both, as you know, and I love my big hedonic feast every day. I eat a lot in my window and I enjoy wine, too, and spirits sometimes as well. So a lot of people, I guess, get confused sometimes or frown on that because there's sometimes an assumption that eating this one big meal or drinking is going to automatically result in unhealthiness or mess up your numbers. But what this really shows is that the overall pattern, like the long fasting window, the time my body got to reset, the low insulin most of the day, it's had these awesome effects. So I'm super, super stoked, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. This is so exciting. Thank you for sharing.

And this is all assuming, of course, that you're not like my theory, which I actually got accused of this week as well. Is that your AI? I'm not AI. We could both be AI.

Barry Conrad
You know, who knows? Who actually does know? We're not. We're smarter than AO, we can't be it.

Melanie Avalon
No, that's amazing. And actually, the study that I have next week is about what you just talked about. Teaser.

Barry Conrad
Wow, look at that. Look at that. We didn't even plan the listeners. There you go.

Melanie Avalon
Do you think you're always going to be nervous before your blood test? It's not nervous.

Barry Conrad
I think it's a sense of like, do you know when a cop pulls you over when they're driving behind you, even though you know you're not a drunk, be driving illegally?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, yes, that's such a good metaphor or simile, it was a simile. That is such a good simile.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I mean, I guess that feeling and this is like, what is it going to be? Like a sense of like, please be good.

Melanie Avalon
It's kind of helpful if you ever get more into my biohacking world. Brands send me blood tests, like I did one yesterday. So it's like exposure effect and I'm doing them 24 seven. It's helpful that way.

Barry Conrad
No, I don't want to be. Oh, trust me. I want to get more into Mel Evelyn's biohacking universe.

Melanie Avalon
Well, we should get you sent some. The one I did yesterday was so, have you done the at-home blood test where you stick the thing to your shoulder?

Barry Conrad
No. Who does that one?

Melanie Avalon
So a lot of companies use it. It's a method of collecting blood. So rather than doing like a finger stick, which I don't like doing those at home, because when you're doing like a big blood test at home with a finger stick, you got to like, I don't know, I like almost faint. I don't like doing it.

It's hard to get that much blood out of your finger. So it's this thing that like sticks to your arm, you don't even feel it. And it like sucks the blood out of you like a vampire and fills up a little like a fills up a bottle.

Barry Conrad
So how long do you leave it on your shoulder like your arm?

Melanie Avalon
It's however long it takes to fill up, so it took mine a couple minutes to actually start. I think the way it works is that it briefly sort of punctures you, but then it sucks it.

That's how it gets all the blood. So it takes a little bit to create that suction, and then you just wait I think about five minutes.

Barry Conrad
It's a vampire. It's a biohiking vampire.

Melanie Avalon
So that was for rhythm health, but uh, but congrats. Yay. Healthy berry. That's awesome.

Barry Conrad
It's just the whole thing, seeing numbers, reflecting it is one thing to talk about fasting and metabolic health, but it's another thing entirely when labs confirm that our lifestyle is great for keeping your internal markers younger than actual age and in good nick, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
especially with and again this we'll talk about this more next week but the concerns and fears I think people have around like the way we eat and such.

Barry Conrad
Tell me about it.

Melanie Avalon
big meals. Awesome. All right. Well, do you have, speaking of studies, do you have a study for us today?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study today, Mel, and it's called Animal and Plant Protein. Usual intakes are not adversely associated with all cause, cardiovascular disease or cancer-related mortality risk, an NHANES-3 analysis. So it comes from Yanny Papanicolo, Stuart Phillips, and Victor Fulgoni, and it was published in Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, 2025. The researchers used NANES-3 data, which is this massive national health survey from the U.S., and they followed almost 16,000 adults for many years to see how their usual protein intake related to long-term health. So they looked at how much animal protein people sort of ate typically, things like meat, my favorite, eggs, dairy, poultry, fish, and how much plant protein they got from beans, nuts, and grains. Then they sort of linked that with mortality records to see if eating more animal protein or more plant protein changed the chances of dying from any cause, heart disease or cancer. They also looked at IGF-1 levels in a smaller group because that hormone sort of sometimes shows up in protein-related research. So the results are surprisingly neutral. Eating more animal protein did not increase the risk of dying from anything. Thank you.

Eating more plant protein did not increase the risk either. So heart disease deaths did not change. Cancer deaths did not rise with the higher protein, and there was even a very small hint of lower cancer mortality with animal protein.

Melanie Avalon
have you said of lowered or more?

Barry Conrad
lower cancer mortality with animal protein.

Melanie Avalon
with adding more animal, sorry, adding more, wait, plant protein.

Barry Conrad
animal protein.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm over, whoa, okay.

Barry Conrad
which we love, although it wasn't strong enough to overstate. So the IGF-1 didn't change the relationship either. The takeaway, Mel, is that based on this huge dataset, the protein type alone did not meaningfully raise mortality risk.

And here's where this becomes relevant to intaminar fasting, because a lot of people who fast, they worry what they should be eating in the eating window, especially when it comes to protein. Protein is such a topical, it's like a hot topic right now, because we talk so much about protecting muscle and maintaining strength, and it's all over social media and the news. And I think this study sort of helps simplify things a bit. It says that choosing animal protein or plant protein isn't what determines long-term mortality. But, and this is an important but, the study doesn't change our basic physiology. So as we all know, actually, if you don't know, the current RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight per day. And that is the minimum needed to avoid muscle deficiency. So that's not to build muscle, just avoid deficiency. So zooming out, I reckon, in a fasting lifestyle, where our eating window is shorter, maybe, getting enough protein becomes even more important, listeners. So realistically, meeting that protein target through plant sources alone could be more challenging than animal protein. So plant proteins are generally less protein dense, lower in certain essential amino acids. It means you have to be pretty intentional and deliberate by eating larger amounts or combining different plant foods to hit that minimum daily. And animal proteins make reaching that RDA way easier because they're just more concentrated and complete. So while this study is reassuring in terms of mortality risk, which we love, it doesn't mean, like someone can just sort of say, I'm getting some protein now from veggies and that's great because you still got to hit that RDA. And protein still needs to be met consistently, especially for us intermittent fasters who want to protect muscle health, metabolism, and physical performance. So what the study supports is freedom of choice and not lowering the protein bar. I mean, at the end of the day, if we're fasting, the most important thing is meeting those needs, choosing foods that work for you, and staying consistent with your eating rhythm. And it's a reassurance that you don't need to fear animal protein. And it also reminds us that protein quality and quantity still matters. What do you reckon, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I obviously love this study so much. I was thinking about it.

I feel like out of all of the different nutrition related topics, protein is just one of the most perplexing and slightly frustrating ones for me because it's just so interesting that protein, it's like the one macronutrient which literally provides the foundational building blocks for our body. So it's out of the macronutrients. It's like the source that builds us. And then on top of that, it's the source that's probably least likely to become fat. So we're less likely to gain weight from it. It's just so healthy, so helpful for supporting muscle. And then there's all these ideas out there about we need to lower our protein intake. And I honestly feel like the majority of studies that are out there, if they show something negative about high protein diets, it's probably correlational. And it's probably a proxy for a high calorie diet because unless you're consciously doing an approach where you're doing high protein and monitoring your calories or doing intermittent fasting or something, you're probably having a lot of protein just like in the normal diet. So high protein could be for a lot of cases, just like a really high calorie diet. So how do we know that the problems are coming from the protein versus the caloric load? And what I love about this study in particular that you found is I do, so personally, my one lingering concern about protein is the high IGF-1 effect. So the high growth hormone that's created from it, because we know in general, or we see that IGF-1 levels tend to correlate to longevity in the way that if you have higher IGF-1 levels, or sorry, like lower IGF-1 levels typically relate or correlate to increased longevity. And the final sentence of the opening abstract of this paper says mortality risk was not associated with circulating IGF-1 in any age group. So this literally answers the one lingering fear I have about protein, not definitively, of course, but that it really speaks to that.

And so fascinating that animal protein, that they found it was mildly protective for cancer mortality. Because again, that's what is often said is that high protein diets can encourage cancer, especially like animal products in general. This is what is said, that animal products in general and especially animal protein. So wild that they found it was mildly protective.

Barry Conrad
I love it because it's true, Mel, you hear it all the time. You shouldn't eat so much weird meat. Barry, you shouldn't have so much steak. It's bad for you, didn't you hear?

But it's so not. It feels good to know that the science supports that because all we can do is the best with what we know, Mel, and science is constantly evolving. So to see studies like these supporting... It needs to be a fasting protein, what we're eating. It's really good for peace of mind so that we're on the right track.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And actually I want to ask you, um, so do people say that to you a lot? Like, do people, do people comment on how much protein you eat or like steak?

Barry Conrad
They really do, because a lot of people, once they find out that I do intermittent fasting, A, it's like, ah, and then it turns to when I say 20 hours, it's like, ah, and then when they see what I eat, they're like, are you sure that's not unhealthy? Didn't you hear that eating that much red meat's really bad for you? It can cause cancer, cause a disease. You shouldn't do that. You should get that checked out. So a lot of people knowingly just say that, whether it's just something they heard or, but it's something that I hear and get a lot, actually.

What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Well, that's what's interesting and that I'm thinking about I wonder if and we've had conversations about this before on the show about just society and like male versus female and things like that. I wonder, I do not people do not really tell that to me very much.

So like if I were to be at a restaurant, eating a lot of steak and and then I order my like second, my second protein animal meal and then my savory dessert of salmon. I think people find it humorous and maybe surprising because I'm like a thin female and they like people often think instead I'm like vegetarian or something. I wonder if people are more comfortable like since you're a man like giving you grief for that compared to me.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I think you know what a lot of dudes, a lot of guys don't say that to me as much like they're like, Oh, are you getting eating so much protein? That's so awesome. Like they're more impressed that I.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they don't say that.

Barry Conrad
It's more older men and females that I hear they're from rather than like males my age or guys who train.

Melanie Avalon
WOAH!

Barry Conrad
Yeah cuz a lot of them know like that they know how important protein is not are you getting your games you getting your protein that's awesome that's great. You know so it's very specific.

Melanie Avalon
Sorry, it's the females that say that it might be a problem.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like, are you sure that's healthy? You should check that out. Like, you know, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
That is so interesting. I have not thought about that.

It's interesting to hear things, especially having done this show prior to you joining with like a female co-host for so long. It's interesting to imagine the experience of doing fasting from a different perspective like that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it also could be a chasm of, like, you know, it's my reality, meaning, like, people that I'm surrounded with usually aren't a health effectiveness or training, so they are more versed in, you know, what we need to get in protein-wise, where a lot of general people, people might meet just in the wild, and I'm at a party, or they're like, ah, that's kind of extreme, you should, I heard red meat's really bad to you, like, and I usually hear that from older males, and older meaning, like, late 50s, and then just females in general. Not all females? Not hating on all females, just, like, from a female population usually say something? Not all, but some.

Melanie Avalon
So interesting. Awesome. Well, good find with the study. Shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. All right. Would you like to read the first one which relates to animal protein?

Barry Conrad
Do we go? So Damon, shout out to Damon, Damon on Facebook asks, what do you think of getting protein from cheese?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, Damon. So I just said a second ago that protein is one of the most, you know, perplexing and frustrating things for me. Cheese is also up there for topics that I am confused by. And that's because it is overwhelming how many different things I have read about cheese that are seemingly completely contradictory. In general, something I think that's important to just make note of to start is cheese can be lean, like really high protein and relatively lean, or it can be like very fatty, like basically all fat. So there can be really different, you know, composition between where the calories are coming from and how much of that actually is protein. So but if you're getting something like softer cheeses, like brie, that's going to have, you know, less protein relatively speaking. And then there are things like cottage cheese where, you know, you could get that and it's basically like you could get fat free cottage cheese and it's like all protein or you can get fattier cottage cheese. Basically, there's just a lot of different ways that it can manifest when you eat it as far as the protein intake. So that's the protein front.

And then there are just so many different studies on how it affects muscle, how it affects weight, how it affects inflammation. So I'm trying to see if I should go through some different studies. Okay, so when it comes to weight, cheese does seem to promote satiety in a lot of people. So it can help with appetite regulation and weight maintenance, but it also can be really easy to overeat. So I know for me, cheese, just like I just want to eat it and eat it and never stop eating it. So for me, I just can't because it's a gateway food into not being able to properly regulate my appetite. But for some people, adding it in is the opposite, like it really promotes satiety. It helps them actually eat less overall. It's not connected to weight gain. Dairy and cheese are high in calcium, which can help actually enhance fat oxidation. So there's that. And then there's some observational studies that actually show inverse relationships between cheese and weight gain. So that actually relates to the French paradox phenomenon. So the French tend to eat a lot of cheese, they tend to be leaner. The French paradox also encompasses wine, which I like, they tend to drink a lot of wine and they tend to be leaner. So some studies in particular, and again, the reason I'm so torn by this is I read so many different things, but there are quite a few different studies. So when it comes to inflammation, there was a 2024 study and they found that aged cheddar cheese had bioactive peptides produced during the ripening process that effectively suppress inflammation, but not young cheese. Young cheese, oh my goodness, it's so funny. And there was a systemic review of 27 randomized controlled trials. And they found that in 19 trials evaluating dairy products, 10 had no effect on inflammation, eight saw a reduction in inflammation, and at least one biomarker of inflammation.

Melanie Avalon
And then there was another study that compared a high fat meal with cheddar cheese compared to a vegan alternative. And they found that the cheese meal had significantly lower CRP levels and CRP is a marker of inflammation. So they did find in there that the cheese, either the cheese reduced the inflammation or the alternative increased it, but they did find that.

And then going back to studies on weight. So there was a analysis of 120,877 us adults for up to two years, sorry, 24 years of thinking months, 24 years. And they found that cheese was not linked to weight gain, even when intake was increased while yogurt was actually associated with weight loss. So they, they found that the evidence suggested that whole fat dairy foods do not cause weight gain, but overall dairy consumption actually, but officially can increase lean body mass and reduce body fat.

Barry Conrad
It's kind of fascinating.

Melanie Avalon
There is a lot of good data and studies on cheese as being a good option for weight maintenance, for supporting muscle, for satiety, for helping with inflammation. But I think you really, really need to know your body because some people, I mentioned myself having kind of like an addictive personality with cheese. I also get, unless it's cottage cheese, honestly like cottage cheese, cheese makes me kind of feel like mucusy. Like I definitely feel it also can make me break out a little bit. So I think you need to be aware of how it actually feels in your body.

How does it make you feel? And really do what works for you. And then on top of that, I'll just go on a quick little tangent. I do think fermented dairy products can be a good way to go. So like when I eat, I love like cultured cottage cheese that has the live active probiotics in it. I love things like that. And you definitely, I mean, do what you want, but I would stay away from super processed forms of cheese, you know, like American cheese slices, which by the way, Barry, welcome to the US and the American. I have a question. Do they have the like the Kraft American cheese slices here? Do they have those in Australia?

Barry Conrad
Not the way you have here. I literally had to buy a low-fat version of that for a recipe the other day. It's wild how many varieties there are.

Melanie Avalon
It's a thing. And it is so good. Oh my gosh. Have you had like the non-lo fat, just like the straight up craft American singles?

Barry Conrad
I did because I went to make smash burgers, homemade smash burgers, and I tried making with the low-fat, and it was all right, but it doesn't hit the same. So I had to just go all in and get the American cheddar straight up.

Melanie Avalon
was it so good? So processed. Yeah, yeah. So those are my thoughts on cheese.

And I will say I don't have the study right here, but I remember reading a lot about this. And Barry, I completely forgot about this. And clearly, I forgot. Maybe this is why I'm so confused. There's an entire book about this, an important caveat, because everything I just said was mostly, I think, supportive of cheese. Dr. Neal Bernard, who is a very renowned and intense vegan doctor, I had him on the show once, but he wrote a book called The Cheese Trap, how breaking a surprising addiction will help you lose weight, gain energy, and get healthy. And again, that's obviously coming from a very, very biased perspective. But this is why I'm so confused because he does reference a lot of studies and you read that book and you're like, God, cheese is the worst thing ever. So it's just really confusing. Although I do remember, it was either in that book or it was in one of Tim Spector's book, I remember reading studies saying that cheese or dairy was definitively not linked to acne. And I just think that's not true, because if I eat cheese, I break out. Okay, that's all I have to say.

Barry Conrad
Really? Mm-hmm.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And, and, and, and here's the thing, Barry, because I remember when I read this, it was every now and then I read a, like a moment, like I read a study and I have a moment. And it was that moment for me because the study was very like definitive that cheese and dairy do not cause acne.

And I, like I eat such a consistent diet with very little change that if I add in something that's very different, I will like notice if something is off, I'm like a very good controlled experiment basically. And yeah, cheese will make me break out.

Barry Conrad
That's interesting i've never heard of anyone say that before so that is but you you are the the perfect candidate for the biggest.

Melanie Avalon
You've never heard people say that they break out? I hear it all the time.

Barry Conrad
From cheese no more like chocolate and stuff but then chocolate has dairy in it so

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't know if it's like the hormonal profile or oh, now I'm getting flashbacks to the cheese trap book. He talks a lot about like the issues of the hormones in cheese because and I agree with that because of the way like, especially if it's like not grass fed, I should emphasize that I would go make sure you get like grass fed organic, if possible cheese made from like a two milk rather than a one milk and you want these cultured like old fermented forms rather than like conventional cheese at the store that's probably can be full of like hormones from the from the cow's milk. It can be full of, you know, endocrine disruptors and problematic compounds and things like that. So I think the sourcing is really important.

And how long can I talk about cheese? I'm going to stop talking about cheese now. What are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
It's so good though. And it is one of those things where it's like we call, Melanie and I have these calls off the podcast when we call them mythical calls. I feel like cheese is a bit mythical because it's not, it never seems to be like a clear cut thing to me ever. You know, it's like what I do know is what I eat and what I do have of cheese is a lot of low fat cottage cheese, Damien, like I'll slap that on a rice cake with some cottage cheese with a slice of tomato. It's so good.

And low fat cottage cheese is super high in protein. It's 24, about 24, 28 grams of protein per cup, which is a lot. Super low fat, really good. Also, I have a lot of, since being here, a lot of Parmesan actually melt because I've been making, I bought a pasta maker, so I've been making a lot more pasta and using a lot of Parmesan cheese. So that's high in protein too, a little bit fattier. Damien, I would say it is how Mel said it's about how you handle it and knowing your body. I don't go overboard personally, but I do eat a fair bit of cottage cheese. As I said, it's easy to digest for me. It's honestly one of those things that somehow works with everything. When you break your fast, a lunch, even a post-workout snack, and also not going to lie, like some low fat shredded cheddar. I use that when I was doing Destiny, I made a lot of home made pieces, like I buy the base, but then put a lot of cheddar on there, low fat, that's pretty good, and melt them into a bowl of chili even, even on a burger, made from ground beef, if it gives you that extra flavor kick as well. But again, go for that, like Mel said as well, make sure you know what the sauce is. Go for the real stuffed them and not the ultra processed slices that look like they could survive a nuclear winter and use it to elevate the meal, not dominate the meal. Yeah, cheese definitely has a spot on my plate. Just be informed where you're getting it from, and that your body's cool with dairy. It's one of life's joys. I love a cheese board, and let's be honest, a homemade burger without cheese, and that's just like a meat patty with an identity crisis. We need to like the cheese. But yeah, just make sure you know where you're getting it from. But yeah, I love it personally.

Melanie Avalon
Love, love, love. That made me think of a few last quick thoughts.

Oh my goodness. I think we've talked about this on the show before. I think a reason in theory that you would think cheese would cause a lot of weight gain is because it's literally a hormonal food, not like because it has hormones from, it's from milk, which is a food literally made to grow a baby and also bond the baby to the mother. So it's really high in case of morphins, which are basically like morphine-like substances in the dairy. And that's why it can be really addictive for some people. And I think it actually depends on people's personal case of morphine receptors. So that might be why some people are more addicted to cheese and dairy than others. So like for me, it just lights me up, like lights me up. It feels like a drug. And then just speaking of the mythical call, oh wait, no, before that, before that, also look into cheese is like goat cheese and sheep cheese. Do you like other types of cheese? Cheese is.

Barry Conrad
I love Goji so much, especially when doing a charcuterie board. Like that's, that's the style of the board. Like a good Goji is really, really good.

Melanie Avalon
What's your favorite cheese?

Barry Conrad
I like a good Swiss cheese. I do like a good goat cheese. I don't love a lot of... I do like blue cheese, contrary to what a lot of people don't like. I love blue cheese.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes, I feel like blue cheese is polarizing. Some people hate it.

Barry Conrad
I love it so much I don't get the hate around why do people hate it is it just because they think it stinks or they don't just don't like the taste.

Melanie Avalon
I think so, yeah. Some people do not like blue cheese. I love blue cheese.

Barry Conrad
It's so more-ish, like you just want to keep eating it, you know?

Melanie Avalon
More-ish you want to keep eating more? Yeah. Have you had manchego? That's my favorite

Barry Conrad
Yes, i forgot about man show going on now now i'm getting inspired for this weekend festivities like making a charcuterie with full of good cheeses.

Melanie Avalon
Mmm, so good. And also flashbacks. Do you remember when I was making my own cottage cheese?

Barry Conrad
I think I do remember this, and okay, did making it inspire you to keep making it, or is like, this is too complicated, or you didn't like the taste of it, or how it made you feel?

Melanie Avalon
The thing that I'm annoyed about is I timed it incorrectly because cottage cheese had its moment. I mean, it's still pretty popular, but it got really, really popular and I swear Barry, it got popular six months after I was posting all my cottage cheese stuff.

Not because of me, but if I had waited six months, I would have been right at the timing to have content that resonated with people. But yeah, I started making it because I wanted, I couldn't find fat-free cottage cheese that didn't have additives. So I was like, I'll just make my own. It's like a science experiment, it's wild. You should do it.

Barry Conrad
Did it taste good? How did it taste?

Melanie Avalon
So if you if you literally they say you can't I mean they say some of the things say you can't make Fat-free cut like that. You can't make cottage cheese out of fat-free milk.

I did they're lying but um It kind of tastes like It's like more like ricotta It's basically just like pure protein But it's why I swear it's like you're in harry potter making it. It's so fun I really recommend you have to like time in and like use the the thermometer and then you pour in the vinegar and then it like Does this reaction it's wild

Barry Conrad
Is it a long process?

Melanie Avalon
I got really good at it and I did it like every day for a couple months and then it was pretty easy to do, but it does require, I don't even remember how long it took. It's not that long, but you do have to let something sit at some point.

I'm not sure. I would make it in the day and then have it ready at night. And then I went down the rabbit hole. I was like, I'm going to make mozzarella cheese. And then I was like, I'm not going to because that process is wild.

Barry Conrad
mozzarella. That actually makes me think of a friend of mine when I was in Melbourne, she was like, just, just let it, she was saying like a director used to say, just mozzarella, mozzarella that moment, like, just stretch it out a bit, which is hilarious.

Melanie Avalon
And I do like mozzarella, I used to love like cheese sticks, like fried cheese sticks, mozzarella.

Barry Conrad
Oh, Melanie, this is totally off topic, but I'll park that and talk about it a little bit. It relates to sticks. Oh my gosh. I have to talk about this.

Melanie Avalon
It relates to what? Oh, to steak. To sticks. Oh, sticks. To sticks, like wooden sticks.

Barry Conrad
Edible sticks. I'll have to talk about it maybe on the next show. It's really funny.

Melanie Avalon
Edible wooden sticks? I am so intrigued. Listeners have to keep listening.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you have to keep listening.

Melanie Avalon
and the one thing I was going to say about the mythical call, when Barry and I have these mythical calls, we literally talk about this stuff. Like, actually.

Like, we'll talk about fasting for like an hour. Like, we didn't just talk about it for, you know, however long.

Barry Conrad
It's not, Melanie was like, we were talking the last time. And she was like, this is so, we're still talking about it. This is like the after show to the.

Melanie Avalon
People need to know we're authentic.

Barry Conrad
It's not just, we're not just coming on here, just like putting on this thing. We actually love, we geek out on it.

Melanie Avalon
We don't just talk about that though, we talk about other stuff too, but I'm just saying.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, come on, guys. There's other stuff too. Okay. Damon, we hope that was helpful. Please let us know what your favorite cheese is going to be, what you end up eating, and what you like.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, please, please report back and would love to hear from listeners in general about the cheese question. Do we want to answer one more quick question? Maybe the, maybe Marissa's carnitine question. Let's do it.

Okay. I'll read. So we have a question from Marissa and this is from Facebook. Everybody can join IF Biohackers intervention fasting plus real foods plus life on Facebook. We have a lot of engagement there and you can ask questions and Marissa said, after listening to you answer the question about el carnitine, I purchased Thorne brand to take before my workouts. If I always work out fasted, am I stopping autophagy when I take it?

Barry Conrad
Hmm. Well, Maris, thank you so much for your question. I hope you're doing great today. Really glad that you asked us because it is something that people do quietly wonder about and, you know, whether they should start using supplements in general around fasted workouts. And so, first of all, good on you for actually paying attention and doing some research, not just, you know, guessing and choosing a clean brand like Thorne and checking in how it fits into your fasting rhythm. So let's talk about this and whether it shuts down autophagy when you take it. The short answer is no. I mean, taking pure alkalatin before you train won't technically stop autophagy in any meaningful way. And I know that's the real heart of what you're asking because you want the performance boost without interrupting that good old cellular clean that we get, you know, when we fast. So alkalatin isn't, it's not a calorie source. Maris, so your body actually produces it naturally from amino acids like lysine and methionine. And its whole job is sort of like a shuttle, like it helps shuttle fatty acids into your mitochondria so that your body can burn them more efficiently for energy. So when you take it as a supplement, you're not giving your body food. You're giving it like a tool, almost like handing someone a key rather than a meal meal. So autophagy responds to things that trigger digestion instead. So and that raise insulin or signal like the body to shift into that feeding state. So pure alkalatin doesn't do that. Maris, it has no calories, no carbs. It doesn't create that insulin spike. So your fast stays nice and clean.

Your body stays in that low sort of nutrient sensing state where autophagy can keep doing its thing. And you get to keep training hard and reaping those benefits. What you do have to be careful, I would say, be careful of is the formulation. So meaning some flavored versions of anything really have blends. So these blends like sneak in sweeteners or fillers and things like that. So you really want to check, you know, what the formulation is. So those can interrupt the fast for sure if they bump your insulin up. So but the plain thorn alkalatin is exactly what you want for fasting. It's clean, nothing extra, simple. You can just take it with water before you train and your fast stays right intact. Now, Maris, you also said that you always work hard faster. Me too. Love it so much. I'm the same. I love training in that faster state because you get you feel that clarity and that sort of lightness and focus and drive, all that really good stuff that hits for me. And supplements like electrolytes creatine, alkalatin actually support that fasted training, Maris, without getting in the way. So it helps you. It actually helps you maintain muscle boost performance and keep that energy steady during a long fast, which is kind of what you want.

Barry Conrad
You know, and just to add as well, I'd say we said this before in the podcast, autophagy is not it's not like a light switch or button. It's not like on off sort of thing. It doesn't suddenly turn off if you breathe wrong or, you know, sit wrong or whatever, whatever it ramps up and down across your fast. So even if something nudged it slightly, which alkalatin doesn't, as far as we know, your overall process would still be moving in the right direction. You're still doing the work, still giving your body that space to repair.

So I'd say you're not stopping autophagy. You're not breaking your fast. Maris, you're supporting your training in a way that is really working for you. And so keep doing what you're doing. And it's the research that you're doing into this as well. It's all it's all the secret of making fasting a long term sustainable part of life. So thanks so much for the question, Maris. Mel, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
So you perfectly nailed that. The only thing I will add is, interestingly, there are actually some studies showing that that L-carnitine might actually increase or induce autophagy.

Wow. Yeah. So there's one called, let's see, carnitine induces autophagy and restores high-fat diet induced mitochondrial dysfunction. So in that one, that was six weeks of mice on a high-fat diet and they had glucose intolerance from the high-fat diet. And then when they were given carnitine supplementation, it actually reversed and helped their insulin signaling and actually induced markers of autophagy. So that's cool. And then there was another study called L-carnitine and acetyl L-carnitine induced metabolism alteration and mitophagy related cell death in colorectal cancer cells. And in that study, they actually found that in cancer cells, adding L-carnitine actually, again, supported the, they call it the autophagy flux and helped the mitochondria and actually stimulated mitophagy, which is autophagy specifically happening in the mitochondria. And the mitochondria are the powerhouses of our cells. So getting rid of dysfunctional mitochondria is really, really good for our bodies and recycling them. And that is mitophagy process. And it looks like L-carnitine might actually support that. So that's cool.

Barry Conrad
I've been waiting for this a while, let's do it. Me?

Melanie Avalon
So Barry, I actually have, okay, I have two restaurants and one, I just want to tell you about it because the menu is not online, but it's in New York and I found it and I just want to like tell you about it and then we can do the actual restaurant. Okay, so you might have heard of it.

Have you heard of Community Kitchen?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I have heard of this.

Melanie Avalon
It's in New York, and they have a seven-course upscale menu that is worth, I guess, $125, but the purpose of the restaurant is to make dining affordable to people. So you pay what you want, basically. So depending on what you can afford, you can pay just $15, you can pay $45. If you pay that, that's what it's actually costing the restaurant. And then if you can afford to pay more, you could pay what they would normally charge for it, which is like $125.

And they're also all into quality and sustainability and just all the things. So it's so cool. I was thinking you could go there some time and tell us what it's like. But it's called Community Kitchen.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, because I just I went to the website now and straight away a pop up came up said you invited to Community Kitchen Lower East Side Girls Club to showcase food justice and action and support of the Lower East Side Girls. Yeah, I love that it's purpose driven, which I love that.

So I reckon I'm going to bookmark this right now for sure. That sounds great. I love that idea of, you know, paying what you can afford. I think that's so cool and so necessary for the city.

Melanie Avalon
So the founder, Mark Bittman, he actually teamed up with a James Beard award-winning chef, Mavis J. Sanders in the kitchen, and Jose Andres is actually on the board of the restaurant. And then they pay the employees over $32 an hour. That's amazing.

That's awesome. So, and they say, oh, this is, they don't police the idea. Oh, so they ask you to pay based on your income, but they don't actually police that, and it's really just whatever you want to pay.

Barry Conrad
I love this idea so much. I'm genuinely going to look into this and get along.

Melanie Avalon
Yay, yay, okay. I know I was going to do it for our restaurant, but then I realized there's not, they don't have a menu online. And then for my actual restaurant that I picked, so one more haunted restaurant. I know I'll do one more haunted restaurant and then we'll let the haunted ones go.

But I like this one for multiple reasons because not only is it haunted, but it's pirate themed and it's in Georgia where I'm from. So it's just like too many good things to pass up. So it's in Savannah.

Barry Conrad
And what inspired you to get to choose this one? Was it just sort of like in the, when you were hunting for the other ones, or are you just this really caught your eye? Tell me why it caught your eye.

Melanie Avalon
because I have so many haunted restaurants on my list. I was like, let me try to get one that hits a lot of different things I like, which is I love a good theme, I love pirates, I love Savannah, Georgia.

Have you been to Savannah?

Barry Conrad
I actually haven't. I have been to Atlanta. Tell me, tell me something. Oh, Gainesville? I've been to... Is Gainesville?

Melanie Avalon
in? No, it's not. I should know where that is. That's in Georgia, right? Yeah, I think

Barry Conrad
So because I've been there and Atlanta, but never Savannah

Melanie Avalon
Savannah is such an old school America haunted cool vibe. So this one is called The Pirate's House. It's a pirate themed restaurant in Savannah and it sits in what is said to be the oldest building in Georgia and the most haunted building in Savannah. And if you're saying the most haunted in Savannah, that's saying a lot because Savannah is known for being a haunted city, like in general.

So there have been reports of apparitions, footsteps of old sailors, noises and moans from the now closed off tunnel near the basement of the building. So I sent it to you. Oh, and, and oh wait, Barry, they have a gift shop. Do you like to see the gift shop?

Barry Conrad
You love, okay, I'll be having a look. You love gift shops. I'm clicking on the gift.

Melanie Avalon
This is a legit gift shop too, do you see the pictures?

Barry Conrad
That's cool. I see mermaids. I see it's massive.

Melanie Avalon
T-shirts organized in a rainbow?

Barry Conrad
There's a whole lot going on in this gift shop, guys. It's like, there's t-shirts, there's merch, there's, looks like magnets, beanies, power it up.

Melanie Avalon
That's all pirate themed.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's a situation. There's like sunglasses, the whole thing is massive.

Melanie Avalon
Do not tempt me with a gift shop. Oh, Barry, the gift shop at the Georgia Aquarium. One of the best. Really? Yeah.

Barry Conrad
really solid why do you okay tell me why because a lot of people some people you okay people either love gift shops or they're like indifferent why why does melanie eveline love gift shops so much is it a disney thing is it uh just a from childhood thing what tell me

Melanie Avalon
It is and by the way, I have the gift shop like carousel of pictures circulating and one of them just popped up. Do you see there's like an animatronic pirate in like the corner? Oh my gosh.

Okay, to answer your question, it's because and it's hard for me because I'm trying to get rid of stuff and you know, I don't want to support overwhelming materialism and consumerism and all this stuff. And at the same time, normally when you're in a gift shop, okay, if you're like having your normal life, right, there's not you're not like going in gift shops, gift shops happen after an experience of some sort in life. Typically, I mean, maybe always. So the point is, it's a chance for you to like, see the experience that you have manifest and physical items. And then you can pick one that really brings happiness to you and speaks to your soul and you can bring that home and then you can remember that time.

Barry Conrad
I would agree with that like for example i went to the guggenheim museum have you heard of this museum in new york and it's pretty amazing stunning but there was a gift shop in there as well and that when you say give some of me think of that cuz there was recent i didn't love the gift shop i don't think you'd like it was okay wasn't as big as this haunted. It's not as big as the pirates house gift shop that's it.

Melanie Avalon
but you understand like it capturing a memento of. It does.

Yes. You've got to find the thing in there that really speaks to you and what's the one thing? Gift shops. Okay. So, menu. Shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it, I'm clicking on, should we click on the dinner one, the dinner one or the lunch dinner? Gotta do dinner.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and for listeners, the purpose of this part of the show is like we were talking about in the beginning, we love celebrating the food that we eat in our eating meal because fasting is not just about fasting. It's about the eating part as well, which is actually how you, I mean, really get the benefits is, you know, all of the nutrients that you've taken.

So appetizers.

Barry Conrad
Melanie there's a lot here a lot of options okay here we go uh what are you getting

Melanie Avalon
Mine is so easy.

Barry Conrad
Peeve Carpaccio.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Beef carpaccio. Do you want the stuff?

So it comes with shishito peppers. Oh my goodness, here we go with all the names. A chermola, aioli, grated parmesan, capers, black chili oil, and black sea salt served with bread. Shall I get all of that on the side so then you can have some?

Barry Conrad
I would love that, and that all sounds really good to me. I'm also going to get a serving of that, and I do love the look of the corn fritters with blackened shrimp mel. That comes with roasted corn and peppers mixed with the cornmeal batter and griddle seed served with blackened shrimp and a side of green tomato. Ciao ciao!

What is that? Finished with a drizzle of Chipotle aioli.

Yum, that sounds delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Now we are. Do you want a salad? Do you want a gem from their salad galley?

Barry Conrad
Let's see, I like the titles by the way, James from our salad galley, you know, I think for the table, maybe a superfood salad wouldn't be so bad. I like the sound of that baby, superfood greens with radishes and mandarins, fresh grapes, fried wontons with the fig vinaigrette.

Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
I love that you know I'm not eating any of the salad and you're like for the table.

Barry Conrad
Okay yeah this is gonna be good for me actually eat not because people think like all think i'm sharing all the food with my my guest that's like really for me.

Melanie Avalon
Nope. Okay.

So now for the entrees, which is Captain Flint's favorites. Oh wait, and entrees. Okay. So there's multiple, I gotta, I gotta make it smaller. So there's an entree section and there's Captain Flint's favorites. So we have a lot of options here.

Barry Conrad
I can see something that I already know that you would like. Oh, well, there's actually quite a few great options here. What are you going to pick, Mel? What do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, there are so many things. It's a lot of fish, a lot of steak, and a lot of seafood.

Barry Conrad
We're going to have to ask for quite a big table or we're going to say can we please have the big table because a few things I want to get actually for this.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I will okay. What's one of the ones that you see? This is really hard for me.

Oh, I see one. I want what I actually really want the seared Cheshire prime pork tenderloin. I'm feeling some pork right now.

Barry Conrad
Fork on you, fork.

Melanie Avalon
pork on my fork comes with herb marinated Cheshire prime pork tenderloin finished with a green tomato what is this green tomato chow chow stuff um sliced over mashed sweet potatoes and sauteed broccolini oh they have broccolini so i might actually get that completely plain and as rare as they'll give it to me it's i know it's pork with like some steamed broccolini on the side

Barry Conrad
I do love a good steamed broccolini. I think the chow chow to me, it kind of sounds like a salsa or something, like a green tomato chow chow-ish. I reckon I'm gonna get three things. So here we go.

Pirates House Award-winning honey pecan fried chicken. So signature honey pecan, you say pecan, I say pecan. Pecan sauce drizzled over perfectly marinated fried chicken, served with sauteed vegetables and mashed sweet potatoes. The second one that I've gotta do is shrimp gumbo because I love gumbo so much. Sautéed shrimp and dule sausage in a class and dewy. Listen, actually pause for a second. Melanie sent me this article, which I should have referenced before this episode. And she said, we need, this is for us. It's like basically an article for people who get names on menus wrong. Ha ha ha. So we apologize to this restaurant and all restaurants. Okay, and it also comes with savannah red rice and a house made bread. And then last but not least,

Melanie Avalon
You missed what it comes with, because I was going to ask you if you've had this, because this is like a staple Southern thing. Okra both? Okra, yes. Have you had okra? Have you had fried okra?

Barry Conrad
I can say that I have not. What does that taste like?

Melanie Avalon
So fried okra is a very staple southern vegetable, but it's, so okra is weird. It's like this green vegetable that's kind of like mucusy on the inside, but they fry it. It, I really liked it growing up, fried at least.

But if you, if you're in the South and you see fried okra, you're going to have to get some because it's, it has a very interesting texture.

Barry Conrad
It sounds really interesting. I've never actually heard it before.

Melanie Avalon
It's like these little balls that pop in your mouth.

Barry Conrad
I've never ever seen or heard of this before until today. There's like fried, yeah, there's like kind of ones you can pop in like a little dip over there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, people. Yep.

Barry Conrad
Okay. And we'll learn something new every day.

I didn't know about that. And then last but not least, I was going to go for the seafood harvest platter, but I feel like even though I love oysters so much, I feel like I'm going to, because there's no oysters on their own, I'm just going to do a filet mignon actually, which is quill to your liking, served with mashed potatoes, salted broccolini, and topped with a house-made steak sauce. Sounds like a party in my tummy.

Melanie Avalon
What did you think I was going to get when you said you saw?

Barry Conrad
filet mignon.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, but I changed it up with a tenderloin. I also kind of want the Scottish salmon, the charred, crusted sumac salmon valet topped with Georgia peach, Georgia peach, but I should know this word, piccally, I don't know, served with mashed sweet potatoes and sauteed broccolini. So I'll just have some plain Scottish salmon.

That sounds good.

Barry Conrad
We're gonna have a big table, so this is gonna be fine. It's gonna be all fine. It's all good.

Melanie Avalon
It's all good. Shall we get dessert?

Barry Conrad
Ah, let's see what they've, whoa, what is that photo on the top? It's a crumbed sort of situation.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they say dessert of the day so they don't, they don't tell you what it is unless you're a little pirate. They got the kids, the kids dessert.

Barry Conrad
is like a Sunday like a bit this is gonna be actually you know what Mel because it's America I reckon the size is probably like the equivalent of like an Australian normal dessert probably for the kids one.

Melanie Avalon
Most likely, have you, now that you've been here a while, have you noticed the food? Does it make you feel any different eating the food here?

Barry Conrad
Do you know what, Melanie, I was actually kind of anticipating maybe feeling kind of different from different foods. But honestly, to be really honest, like, no, like I don't feel like my tummy has been unsettled. I don't feel no digestive issues at all, like zero. And I've eaten like array of food, like had like sort of New Orleans type cuisine in Washington, D.C. recently had just some, you know, Japanese fusion over here, American style food over here, pasta, bread, lots of things. And I feel my tummy feels pretty good. So, so far, so good.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. I was wondering if you were like making your own pasta because you realized the pasta here is not the best.

Barry Conrad
Well, yes. I mean, it's not like it doesn't taste the best. I would say, OK, let me zoom out. It does.

I don't feel any different eating it like physically, but the taste isn't as great of different things like the bread's not generally like store-bought bread is not generally that great. Animal protein generally, unless it's from like a good butcher, isn't always great, like things like that. And it's hard to find a good fishmonger. So things don't taste as good good so far, like, you know, to date, but I mean, I don't feel bad eating it.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I love that you're making your own, but it's kind of like when Jim was here, she was making her bread and then Vanessa would make, she would make all of these different keto things. I don't know if Cynthia made things.

I make cottage cheese and you make pasta.

Barry Conrad
I think you'd actually like my pasta Mel, how do you digest pasta, you go to the pasta?

Melanie Avalon
No, I don't eat pasta. I do have, I do actually, well, the gluten and the grains, but I do actually have a weed allergy, so.

Barry Conrad
Okay, well, there goes that. There's other stuff. I made cornbread the other night.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's a good, that's southern staple.

Barry Conrad
Anyway, I digress, so dessert, I guess we'll...

Melanie Avalon
have to see what the dessert of the day is. Do you see a drink that you want?

Barry Conrad
Oh, drinks, here we go, drinks, here we go. Okay, so we have feature cocktails. Guess what I'm gonna get, Mel? The Pirates Margarita. Yeah, you already know.

Like, it's just like very standard for me to get a margarita and then probably like a good, you know what? I've kind of intended to try a beer as well, like a local beer at this restaurant for some reason.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and they have local Georgia wine.

Barry Conrad
maybe a beer and a wine like a white wine a beer and a cocktail.

Melanie Avalon
nice do they have the list of the beers let me look at the wine and see if there's anything this might be a uh okay i know i literally know every single red on this menu this is definitely going to be a sneaking wine in or bringing actually no no wait i'll bring a bottle of wine not sneak it in like pay a corkage fee

Barry Conrad
Oh, they do? Oh, that's so good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, did they do that in Australia?

Barry Conrad
They do. It's not like super common, but they do. Yeah, but they do some places.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's pretty, it's not abnormal at all. And if it's a fancy restaurant, it's actually, it's weird because at a fancy restaurant, you would think you would order wine from the wine list, but also people will bring in, you know, like they're really expensive, fancy bottles of wine. So it's not, it's not uncommon.

I had when I was working in fine dining, a lot of people would bring in bottles of wine.

Barry Conrad
So you're going to bring in a bottle of wine. We can enjoy that. And we have quite a feast there. So it sounds like a good situation to me.

Melanie Avalon
And then we can go to the gift shop.

Barry Conrad
And you get to say that.

Melanie Avalon
I just ran on the FAQ and they have over 700 items just waiting, just waiting for us.

Barry Conrad
I think, you know, what you can picture basically from the scenario is Mel will be dragging me into the gift store and I'll be like, Oh, this is really fun.

Melanie Avalon
You'll have so much fun. And then I'll like show you all the things.

There are some like staple things that I like to like, there's like categories of, do you have like category staple things to get at gift shops? Because I do.

Barry Conrad
I don't like, okay, I don't get the queuing thing because no one ever keeps them. They lose them. So not really key rings.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, have we not talked about this? Barry, have you seen my keychain, my keys?

No, have I? Okay, so every musical I go to, if they have a keychain and buy a keychain and I add it to my ever-growing blob of keychains, I'm that person with like, like the keychain is the size of like a small animal.

Barry Conrad
Okay, you're an endangered species then because a lot of people that I buy key have more key chains for in the past just like, oh, sorry, bro, I lost it or I don't have it anymore. So you don't you keep them.

Melanie Avalon
And, and I have like, there's like so many of them, you never lose your keys. Cause there's like 50 key chains on.

Barry Conrad
I need to see this. This is sort of rattles. So when you walk around you just like a rattle.

Melanie Avalon
It's heavy, too. There you go.

So I get a key chain or I get like a magnet, although I'm running out of room on the fridge. I love when they have Christmas ornaments because that's something you can really use. And then when you decorate the tree, you have the memory.

Barry Conrad
That is actually a really good idea, ornaments for the tree. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
Christmas ornaments are like a no-brainer, so. Although here, we might have to get like a shot glass or something, because it's, you know, pirate.

Barry Conrad
I can get done with that. I love a chocolat, so like a whiskey tumbler or something. Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, this was super fun. Friends, thank you so much for spending your time with us. We appreciate you so much.

These show notes for today's episode will have links to everything that we talked about. Definitely check them out. They will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 454, and you can find all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. You can submit your own questions for the show by directly emailing questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much listeners for all your support and for tuning in again this week, and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye, Mom. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Dec 22

#453 – Social Norms Affecting Eating Behavior, Contagious Obesity, Creatine Breaking A Fast, Food Tasting Better With Others, Increasing Food Pleasure, Societal Weight Norms, And More!