#447 – Feasting Without Guilt, Healthy Fast Food Choices, Indulgence Vs. Hedonic Food Consumption, Diet Pressure, Male Vs. Female Societal Eating, If It Fits Your Macros, And More!
Welcome to Episode 447 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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Enjoyment or indulgence: What draws the line in hedonic food consumption?
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 447 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 447 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, everyone. Hey, Mel, I'm doing amazing today. I am back in New York and I am currently looking out the living room window at the City Lights, the New York City Lights, actually, literally. So I feel pretty amazing.
Glad to be back on the show with you. How are you doing? How are you doing on this great Tuesday?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I am. I'm so jealous of your view. It just sounds so beautiful and amazing and such a vibe. It is a vibe.
Outside your window. I am good. I had the, so when this comes out, okay, so this comes out. Oh, well, this comes out November 10th, which is the day after my birthday. Wow. Wow. That's weird to think about.
Barry Conrad
It's exciting to think about.
Melanie Avalon
Eh.
Barry Conrad
No?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, another year older.
Barry Conrad
Another year younger, you know.
Melanie Avalon
No, you're younger. It's funny how you go from remember like when you're little like your birthday is the most the most exciting thing.
I don't know if it was for you. But for me, it was like you look forward to that. Like it is everything. And then or no, did you not?
Barry Conrad
I did, but what, are you doing anything for your birthday this year? Or did, okay, it hasn't happened yet, but are you going to do anything for your birthday this year?
Melanie Avalon
I'm actually currently trying to... I was actually working on that today. I think so, actually.
I think I'm gonna get... It's TBD. My dad might come in town and we might see a show, but I might turn into a group thing. If you wanna come, I really wanna go see Taylor Tomlinson, the comedian. Do you know her?
Barry Conrad
I've heard of this person.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, she has her specials are on Netflix, but she's like younger and I just think she's really funny. I went to her first touring special a few years ago.
I love comedy shows. I love going to comedy, but I don't go that much because I don't know any comedians. Like I, it's like, I know I like it, but I don't, it's kind of like knowing that you like a certain cuisine, but you actually don't know anything about the cuisine. So you can't just like order it, you know? Like I wish I knew more comedians that I thought were funny. So she's one of the few that I actually have seen and really like, and what are the odds that she's coming here the day before my birthday for her show at my favorite theater in LA, or sorry, in Atlanta, the Fox. So I feel like I have to go.
Barry Conrad
You have to go and it's not a, you know, what are the odds of the timing is perfect. So you've got to make it happen.
You got to do. Also, I didn't actually know that you were into comedians. I didn't know that you liked, you enjoyed that.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like I didn't know that either. And then I realized I did. But you know, whenever you go, do you like comedians?
Barry Conrad
I do like comedians. I don't get to enough shows, but I have. I did go to a stand-up night just before I left Sydney, and I loved it. It's funny. I love laughing, so I'm all for it.
Melanie Avalon
Like, laughing is so good for you. So whenever I do, like, on the rare times I go to a comedy show, I'm like, this is so healthy for me.
Like, I need, and you're like, it's, you're with people, you're laughing, assuming it's, you know, like a style of comedy that, because people have different styles. So assuming it's a comedy style that you appreciate and think fun, I think it's funny.
Barry Conrad
That's awesome. That sounds like a good nod out to me.
Melanie Avalon
I think so. And then especially if my dad comes in town and it could become a group thing, you could come.
Barry Conrad
You know what, I'm going to check my calendar to see what the situation is.
Melanie Avalon
Actually, check.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I also do need to get your address. Thank you. Can you please send me your address?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I will give you my addresses because I have, well, yeah, I have my address, but then I actually have like a package receiving facility. So I have like two addresses type things.
Barry Conrad
Oh, fancy. So like, what's the address that you would receive things?
Melanie Avalon
It depends if it's a letter or flowers or packages. Letters and flowers go one place, packages go somewhere else.
Barry Conrad
That's like, yeah, it's so weird. Is that an American thing that they, if it's an apartment complex, like is two different, no, it's so confusing to me.
Melanie Avalon
I feel like it's whatever, because like when I first moved here, everything just came to my address. But then it was such a hassle that they installed these lockers for a while.
So a lot of apartments do like a locker system, so you have a different address. But now we have just this off state. I was really, when they started it, I was like, this is not going to work. Because the place the packages go to, like the address I would give you is a completely different city. And I was like, so I'm going to have my packages go to a different city every day and then you're going to bring it to me. But they do.
Barry Conrad
That's so interesting. Whatever works.
Melanie Avalon
I know. In Australia, is everything always just one address?
Barry Conrad
No, I feel well, yeah, I get like no one's ever told me I've got like unless they have a PO box for fan mail or something. It's like usually just one address.
It is very so far in my limited experience. American, very American situation.
Melanie Avalon
I know you're gonna have to keep me updated on things that you find to be so American, you know? Like...
Barry Conrad
I did a self-tape earlier today, and the guy was saying, you are see say air con and we say AC and like, you know, in the slate, we say like full body slate and you guys say long shot. It's like just like all these isms like there's always like whatever it is.
Melanie Avalon
What do you guys say for sleep?
Barry Conrad
like to do like a long, like a slight, but then do like a long shot. But in, apparently here you get, you say, there's like a full body, full body, uh, slate. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, there's probably just like tons of it. And you say, I mean, we say AC or air conditioner.
Barry Conrad
We say aircon, the aircon is good.
Melanie Avalon
That sounds like a flight. It does. Like a flight, like a airline. I'm flying air con.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, actually it does. It actually really does.
Melanie Avalon
That's funny. Oh my goodness. Well, speaking of slates and movies, quick plug. Because when this comes out, hopefully it's still in theaters, you know, it should still be in theaters.
So this for me personally, this past weekend, I saw I know I've talked about on the show before and told you about it, Barry, but my friend Carmen and me has this first feature film playing clothes. And it is doing so well on Rotten Tomatoes. It doesn't have the audience score yet, because it's not, it's not out in theaters yet. It has like 60 reviews. And it has last time I checked 87% on Rotten Tomatoes, which is amazing. It's doing so well. It stars Tom Blythe from The Hunger Games and Russell Tovey. And it's an incredible film. This was my third time seeing it. They were screening it at the Out on Film Festival here in Atlanta, which is an LGBTQ film festival. And I went with a group of friends. And again, my third time seeing it. And it's just a stunning, stunning film. And it's doing so well. And I got to see Carmen. So it's actually going to be in theaters nationwide, October 3. That's incredible. If you go to magpictures.com slash plain clothes, Magnolia Pictures is their distributor. And you can see where it's showing. It's showing in a handful of theaters in most states. So it's actually going to be showing here at our legendary one of our like one of my favorite theaters in Atlanta movie theater is called the Terra Theater, which is like a it's just like a legendary theater here that shows mainstream stuff and also independent films. So everybody go see plain clothes. And Barry, you have to meet Carmen because he lives in New York a lot. I love that. He's like all over but he's often in New York. So you guys have to meet up.
Barry Conrad
And I'd love to see the film if I can. I've actually written down the URL now, magpictures.com slash plainclothes, so I can check out locations. I'd love to check it out.
Oh yeah, you should. That's so exciting. And that's, I'm so happy.
Melanie Avalon
So in New York, it's going to be showing, oh, in Syracuse. So he's from Syracuse. Oh, at IFC Center 5 in New York, that's probably in the city. That one is actually, oh, it's already playing there.
And then it's going to be playing at, oh, OK. So for the bigger release, it's going to be playing at Rosendale, Williamsville, Orchard Park, Watertown, Who Keeps Sea? So five different other theaters, but then it looks like the one I mentioned before is probably the New York City one. How good is that? I'm so proud of him. And he's literally just one of the nicest, kindest, most magical human beings that I know. So love you, Carmen. And Carmen and Barry, you guys have to meet.
Barry Conrad
It's gonna happen. Let's put it out there. Let's do it. Awesome.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome awesome
Barry Conrad
Also, speaking of seeing things, guess who I'm going to see tomorrow.
Melanie Avalon
Who you're going to see? Yeah. Not what you're going to see?
Barry Conrad
It's a music artist.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, can I have a hint?
Barry Conrad
Female music artist, pop, is actually friends with Taylor Swift.
Melanie Avalon
friends with Taylor.
Barry Conrad
Well, based on exchanges and just like, you know, stuff on stage that they've, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I bet you're going to see Sabrina Carpenter.
Barry Conrad
No, but that's a really good guess. Okay. Okay, I'll give you another clue. They have brown hair. Brown sort of wavy hair. I think wavy hair.
Melanie Avalon
Can I have another hint? What does it start with L? If you if you say it's not if you say it's not Lana, don't tell me it's Lana
Barry Conrad
You would die if it was Landau, I know it's not Landau, but yet.
Melanie Avalon
I would die if it was Lana.
Barry Conrad
You would, wouldn't you?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would. Oh, Lord. I actually was looking, I was almost, I was thinking of going to her concert here. I didn't. Oh yeah, fun. Do you like Lord? Obviously you're going.
Barry Conrad
And also she's a Kiwi, so you know, gotta support Aotearoa, support New Zealand artists.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, she is?
Barry Conrad
Yes, she is.
Melanie Avalon
And I know that.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, she's a New Zealander, so going to go and support. And I love, especially some of her older stuff, so I can't wait to... Madison's Great Garden is going to be a vibe, can't wait to go.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Have you been in Madison Square Gardens?
Barry Conrad
I've actually never been to Madison Square Garden and this is the thing like I realized being in New York like everyone comes I guess most places in New York like America just everyone tours here right so much better.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. I was thinking of going when Billy Joel was having his last show, but then he canceled it. Did he? Mm-hmm.
Barry Conrad
He would have been amazing to see, he's a goat.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, oh my goodness, let me know how that is. Ah, it's so fun. Have fun.
Barry Conrad
You're about to freak out, like, is it Len Lomé?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I would have died, yeah. Do you like her new album?
Barry Conrad
I haven't heard it, but I did hear that Taylor Swift has this whole new thing coming out and like a film and everything. Is that, can you know about that?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes. Well, that'll be in the past by the time this comes out. But I will be going to that. Yes, I will be going and I'm dressing up because I'm actually seeing Fiddler on the Roof on Saturday.
And then I'm going to go to Taylor Swift's movie on Sunday.
Barry Conrad
There you go, I can't wait to hear all about it.
Melanie Avalon
I know. All right. Shall we jump into some fasting related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I'm so excited about the study that I found.
Barry Conrad
You were saying that you're excited to bring the study, right?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think it's really unique. The study is called enjoyment or indulgence. What draws the line in hedonic food consumption? The reason they were doing this study and contemplating these thoughts is actually for the tourism industry. So disregard that because I just find what they discuss really, really interesting.
But it's basically looking at the idea of indulgent consumption and hedonic consumption. So the idea of like eating a lot of food and gratuitously maybe or feeling like it's hedonic, feeling like it's indulgent, maybe feeling guilty, it breaks it down into two different forms. Because it's saying that we tend to lump that into one thing when really there's hedonic consumption and there's indulgent consumption and it all comes down to goal conflict. So basically, if what they consider hedonic consumption, that's doing something because it's pleasurable, it's enjoyable, it's fun, but it's not in conflict with your goals, then there's indulgent consumption, which is doing something that feels excessive, you feel guilty about it, you feel bad about it. But the takeaway is that not all pleasurable behavior, and especially behavior that might involve a lot of seeming quote, excess. So I'm relating this to fasting because I'm thinking about how you and I, you know, like in our one meal a day, have all this food, and we have like our big meals and everything that technically because that's not in conflict with our goal, that to us is hedonic consumption, not indulgent consumption. And so pleasurable actions only become indulgent if it conflicts with your higher goal. So be that health or weight loss or even like money savings or self control. So many people doing fasting might think, you know, if I had this big delicious feast in my eating window, am I indulging in a way that you know, you should feel guilty about and what this study is proposing. Again, it's not talking specifically about fasting, but with the theory, it's saying no, not necessarily it's saying if you eat in your window, and it's aligned with your fasting practices, and your meal supports your goals, then that's just hedonic enjoyment. It's not indulgence.
But if you were to push past your satiety, choose foods that are sabotaging your health goals, not aligning with what you want to be eating, or if you feel like it's derailing your progress, then it would become indulgent because of the goal conflict and no longer hedonic. So I think it gives like a cool new reframe on the idea of guilt that we might assume comes with eating these, you know, big amount of foods in our eating window. And it makes it much more personalized, and it can help with a mindset shift. So you know, people, when people are eating, especially if they're having like a big one meal a day type situation, they can ask themselves, okay, like, was that indulgent? Was that excessive and I feel guilty and it's in conflict with my goals and it's in conflict with my my fasting or my food choices?
Melanie Avalon
Or is it in line with my fasting, it's supporting my goals, it's hedonic, it feels good, but it's not something indulgent to feel quote, guilty about. So yeah, what are your thoughts on this on this concept?
Barry Conrad
This is really eye-opening because it seems really simple, but it's totally like it's a reframing. Like you said, it's kind of all about the context. It's almost like not the what, but the why.
Like what I found really eye-opening is that the enjoyment only turns into indulgence when it clashes with the goal. So for example, like someone can look at, you know, can you hear, are you eating all that food tonight? They can see that as an indulgence, but they don't realize that that's all in line with my goal and the same for you. So it's just like it's all about the context of it. Like you still will experience the pleasure in the moment, but it's more like the little voice in your head afterwards is whether it's going to say you're going to regret this later or not, depending on your goal. You know, yeah, it's so interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And the reason I find it so refreshing to read is because I'd sort of been dancing around this concept in more of a nebulous way. And that I think... Because it's speaking to the idea of pleasure and it's saying pleasure isn't something that you have to necessarily feel guilty about. And I find it really interesting that I think we are, depending on how you were raised or what religious background or family background or traditional background or philosophical background, and people can have different ideas. So this is just me pontificating.
I know for me, the way I was raised, I think it was this idea that things that are pleasurable are probably not good, like something to feel guilty about. And so this is a more like a clinical look and it's like, no, no, no, there's pleasure and it's literally pleasure. And the guilt comes in if it's in conflict with these higher goals that you have. So I agree with their hypothesis, basically. And I find it really freeing. I think it's a good reframe for viewing anything that you're doing pleasurable in life.
Barry Conrad
I actually was about to, I was thinking exactly the same thing while you were talking that it kind of applies to so many areas of life, right?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah
Barry Conrad
Not just food.
Melanie Avalon
yeah, money, relationships, like anything related to, quote, pleasure. So yeah, and like I said, the actual article is talking more about how it applies to the tourism industry.
And I'm trying to remember how I found it. I think it's because I was searching, I was really curious if there was any literature, scientific literature on the idea of indulging a lot in like an eating window and having guilt about it. I was just curious if there was like, thoughts on that. And so that's how I found it.
Barry Conrad
That's an amazing find. What's something that you really enjoy that never feels indulgent to you because it aligns with your goals? What do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
So two thoughts there, which is a great question. And this is what's interesting, because I think I needed, like, I think I needed to find this article for me because I still, even though I've done one meal a day fasting for how long? Almost 15 years, I think, and it supports my goals. I love it. I genuinely enjoy it. I don't have goal conflict with it.
And still, still, I sometimes feel guilty, like still. And I'm like, where is that coming from? And I think it's coming from, like I said, well, two things. One, how I was raised with a perspective of like pleasure coming from a religious perspective. And then two, in society, eating a lot of food, just because eating a lot of food in society is typically seen as an indulging thing that you would feel guilty about, because it's not taking it into the context of having it in like a fasting, feasting pattern. So it's like something I personally have not been able to completely lose. So do you ever have that feeling?
Barry Conrad
No, I guess now that I think about it, I always really look forward to my one meal a day like it's such an event like I prepare everything and it's like it's never like a whim like it's always. This is what I'm gonna have and I can't wait like I'm it's like an incentive and then when I have it it's like I feel like a king of feel like I'm feasting.
Melanie Avalon
It might be like a male-female thing too.
Barry Conrad
Really?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, also go back to that. Sorry to interrupt that that like sparked my memory. Yeah, because you were saying you feel like a like a king.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I feel like I'm feasting and also at the same time when I feel fine with that, but then when people more if I share what I've had and people comment, then I can sometimes unintentionally will kind of go, Oh, is that too much? Am I indulging too much?
Even though I know that's not the case, but it's more like the outside perspective. It can be like, Oh, that's too much or that's that's excessive or that's not healthy. Or you're doing too much. You're eating too much. There's other people that need to eat that. But in the moment, I'm like, it doesn't conflict with my goals. It's not hurting me. I'm having all this abundance of food and drink and it's great. Yeah, it's interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Yeah. So that's a big, that's a big epiphany moment for me.
Cause I was saying it was two things for me that the guilt was coming from like religion and then society looking at fasting choices. But I think it's also the male female thing. Like I think there's like, if you're as a female, as a, like a biological female, the messaging, like the messaging towards women for as long as I can remember. And I think it's still this way is like women shouldn't, you know, be on a diet and should not be overindulging. And like you should be dieting compared to like men where it can be like this like masculine manly thing to like eat a lot of steak. There's not that guilt aspect that I think is just saturating society when it comes to females eating.
Barry Conrad
Do you think that that makes total sense? It's so sad that you say that that's pretty much still a thing now. It's still the expectation or like a silent expectation or not silent.
Melanie Avalon
And well, you know, what's also hard about it is, so I think that is the silent expectation. And then you're also not supposed to diet either. So like, you know, like when we, the women can't win because it's like, it's like, oh, you need to be dieting and you need to be restricting and you need to be like this thin body shape and every and everything. But also if you do that, then you're not accepting yourself and oh, now you're over dieting and now you're over restricting.
So don't do that. So like, literally, the lack of acceptance is horrible.
Barry Conrad
That sucks. I'm sorry that that's that's the reality.
Like I'll never understand, you know, not being a female, but not by and I'll never understand that. They're really, it's not reasonable. And I can see how that could confuse a lot of biological females, what to do, what to eat, when not to eat, what, you know, when to die, when not to die, what's too much, what's indulgent, you know, like what is indulgent then one P, like one quarter of a piece of cake or whatever it is.
Melanie Avalon
Like, yeah, like when does it become indulgent? Like, which bite makes it indulgent versus not, you know? Like, where do you cross the line?
Barry Conrad
So you've actually been thinking that.
Melanie Avalon
well, it's very subconscious. It's very, very tiny. And it's very subconscious. But it's like, so I'm not like actively it's not like every time I eat normally my mental experience of eating is very similar to you. And that I literally look forward to my one meal day so much every night, not in like a craving, I'm hungry, I need food away just in like a I love doing my work during the day. I love being productive. And then I love like being done with my work and like having my meal like it's so fun. And then the food tastes like eating food after fasting compared to like eating constantly throughout the day, it tastes so much better. Like the first bite just tastes so good. So I love like being in that moment.
And then I love the food. And then it makes me feel really good. And still again, it's not like I'm actively thinking it but there is underneath everything still a little tiny little kernel of guilt. I guess it's I guess it's guilt that yeah, that this is either in conflict with my religious upbringing or it's in conflict with what society says about what I should be eating. It's in conflict with like being a woman eating all this food.
Barry Conrad
I think it's really great that you are self-aware enough to share that I feel this and also I know that it's not true, it would be harder I think if you felt this and you didn't know what to do with that.
You mentioned like you're bringing societal messaging, silent expectations and not so silent expectations and then also bringing up the study, it just simplifies all this dogma.
Melanie Avalon
I agree. I think awareness is so key. So when it comes to all this, because I've just said a lot about my mental, emotional feelings about this, but what I think is really important is A, like you said, awareness. So being aware of these different views and voices in your head and where they're coming from. And it's okay to... I think it's okay that they're there because we don't even know where thoughts come from. I was reading a book yesterday that I'm prepping for the show and she's talking about how still we don't know where thoughts come from. They literally just pop up. You can't control what pops up into your mind. And people think with meditation that it's about not thinking. No, it's not about not thinking. It's about being aware that thoughts come up and that you are not those thoughts and that you can let them just pass through. So I think that's really important.
So I'm not saying that I'm a bad person. Not that you were saying that, but I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm having these thoughts. I'm just saying I'm aware that they're there. And I think others can be aware of them in their head as well. And then two, I also don't want to have a victim mentality. So even if this is the case in society, which I think it is, that doesn't mean I am forced into... That I'm a victim of society or that I'm forced into eating one way or the other. I can still make agency to do what I want to do. And if that's eating fasting with one meal a day, then that's what I'm going to do. So no victims as well. That's my soapbox. Wow. Soapbox.
Barry Conrad
No, honestly, Melanie, that was actually incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that because it's just you being really honest.
And I think I know that so many listeners will get so much out of this right now. So I'm so glad you found the study because I'm certainly thinking about it. I'm going to read up more about this after we finish making a note because it's interesting and it just takes the pressure off of you as well, you know, it really does.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think that's the takeaway is that it's like this like sigh of relief that we don't have to funnel everything into this guilt lens, that there are options of how we view this. And I'm so enjoying this conversation.
Thank you so much. This is like one of my favorite conversations I've had on the show. So thank you for
Barry Conrad
Well, thank you for bringing it up. And of course, this is a big and we'll have to do pipe be offline. It's just really interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Farron, I always talk after. I feel like we're going to be going down the rabbit hole.
So awesome. And I would love to hear listeners thoughts on this as well. I should post, I'll post in the Facebook group to get some engagement going around this for sure.
Barry Conrad
Wait till people get a lot of this i think so many people gonna have so much to say imagine the confusion so many people feel like i feel tormented by this guilt and i don't know where it's coming from and that's that's a big struggle that a lot of people go through especially with food.
Lots of other things but food especially i mean a lot of the times you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And so actually in my book, I talk about the first time I can remember. I can literally remember the first time I became aware of this concept of dieting in society and this need that you should be dieting. Really? Yeah. It was when my older cousin that I really looked up to, I heard my aunt tell my mom, I don't know, I heard some family exchange and they were saying that my cousin was on a diet and I was like, what's a diet? And it was like this idea. Yeah. And I just remember that. Never since then I was like, Oh, like maybe I need to be on a diet to lose weight. So yeah, it's really interesting.
Barry Conrad
Pretty crazy.
Melanie Avalon
Well, okay. Well, on that note, I was wondering, I guess it would actually be a good segue. Speaking of perspectives of guilt and things like that, should we talk about the fast food stuff? Yeah, let's do it.
So I find this really interesting because when it comes to speaking of guilt and food, I feel like fast food locations are not to be judgmental. But if a person has, quote, like guilt around eating somewhere, like it's fast food places, you know, it's often associated with unhealthy food choices. So I was really curious, I asked in my Facebook group, which again, for everybody friends during my group, it's called IF Biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. Barry and I are in there. We talk a lot with you guys. So definitely join. And I posted a poll. And I was really curious because what I posted was I said, if you had to eat a fast food meal, what would you choose? And I was curious if people would go the route of like, speaking of the study, I'm being indulgent. I'm just going to eat what I want to eat, like all the things, or they're going to give options of like healthy versions of things that you can eat at fast food. And we kind of got both. And I'll be curious, Barry, because I don't know which, which of these restaurants they have or which of these fast food places they have in Australia. So should we go through them?
Barry Conrad
Let's go through them. I'm curious. I've just actually caught live literally in real time. Just commented in on the thread
Melanie Avalon
Oh, somebody just commented while we're talking? Yep, just now. Oh, that's, I love it. That's amazing. Okay, so, okay, well, McDonald's. Do they have McDonald's in Australia? Yes.
Barry Conrad
They're definitely at McDonald's in Australia.
Melanie Avalon
Is it different? Have you been here?
Barry Conrad
It's better in Australia.
Melanie Avalon
I bet. How's it better?
Barry Conrad
The meat tastes better. The fries taste better.
It doesn't taste as quote unquote fake. It's better in your gut. I find to digest it. I don't know what's different, but it's, it's definitely, it feels for lack of better words, fresher or more real, even though it's, you know, processed, very ultra processed.
Melanie Avalon
I completely believe that for sure. So if you were, if Barry, if you were to, because okay, if I were to eat at McDonald's, I would just order lots of burgers with no bun. I'd be like, can you give me like 20 burgers? I've actually been, it was funny, because I don't remember the last time I went to fast food. I've actually been having this random like urge to go somewhere like McDonald's or Burger King or something and do that, like order like 20 burgers and like see what it tastes like. I think that would be really good.
Oh, one. Just to see if you like it. Oh, true. I guess I probably should start there. Yeah. Good idea. Before I order 20. So Susan says McDonald's fish with a half bun, fries and diet coke, usually when traveling by car. Also Arby's beef with a couple of curly fries. If I'm trying to be good, then Chick-fil-A grilled chicken cubes. Do they have Arby's or Chick-fil-A in Australia?
Barry Conrad
They don't have Arby's or Chick-fil-A, but I will say I love me some Chick-fil-A. I haven't had it in a while, but it's pretty good. It's not too bad, actually, in terms of badness.
Melanie Avalon
You know what it is? Do you want to know what it is? Tell me. It's one of the ones that I think is growing up, I thought was really healthy and it's actually shockingly horrible if you look at the ingredients.
Because you're thinking like, because you're thinking like chicken, like chicken, you know, this is great, but the, like the fried versions are, oh my gosh. And then the grilled version even has all this stuff in it. I've, I've gone down the rabbit hole of trying to find the most like unprocessed form of meat that you could get at a restaurant, at a fast food place. And I think Arby's, if you get their beef, I don't think it has stuff in it. Well, Arby's roast beef. Okay, never mind. It has beef, water, salt, sodium, phosphate, sometimes a salt solution. I think the best you can do honestly is go somewhere like Burger King or McDonald's and get just the burger if you don't want stuff added. Sabrina says in and out. Well, in and out. Have you been to in and out?
Barry Conrad
I love In-N-Out so much, and actually, okay, Mel, In-N-Out's actually really good because they cook the meat fresh there and they also have like these bundler's burgers there like just in lettuce. It's really good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and they're like, they taste really fresh.
Barry Conrad
they're really delicious because they cook it all fresh, even the fries are fresh. It tastes like old school as if you're in another era.
Melanie Avalon
I miss In-N-Out from California. So Sabrina says, In-N-Out triple flying Dutchman, mustard fried with chopped chilies, soda water with lemon and fries with a side of mustard for dipping.
Andrea, I haven't heard of this. Runza, do you know what that is? Or is that a food? She says cheese, runza and frings with the best ranch. If you know, you know, I clearly do not know.
Barry Conrad
I don't know, what's Runza?
Melanie Avalon
We don't know I'm seeing if it's a if it's a restaurant or it's oh it is a place Well, it looks good I've never been there Okay, Holly says fresh kitchen. I don't know what that is
Barry Conrad
I don't know that one of the...
Melanie Avalon
That sounds good. Yeah, people are giving like, some people are giving like, healthy answers. And some people, not so much.
Amy says, Super Chicks. I don't know what that is. David. Oh, here's one. Chipotle. Have you been there?
Barry Conrad
I have been to Chipotle. Chipotle is not too bad because it's like burritos and whatnot. It doesn't feel so bad and it's like, you know, rice and steak or chicken. So that's, to me, that's not so bad to me.
Melanie Avalon
Chipotle you could totally make work, you know, like you could get you. Yeah, I think you could or like I could order at Chipotle and Feel good about it You always just have to go look up because you have to look up if they're adding stuff to the like the beef and things Because you'd be surprised at different places what they might add, but yeah Chipotle Okay, and then we got another in and out Laura says protein style burger from in and out.
I agree protein style That's where they put on the lettuce. I think right?
Barry Conrad
That's what it is. Yeah, protein style, that's right. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
And then, I don't know this, the habit. I haven't been there. Santa Fe beef salad, that's what Nydia said. Nydia, we answered your question last week, in case you missed it.
Nancy says this is an odd answer, but Taco Bell, I'm going to keep reading, but do they have Taco Bell in Australia?
Barry Conrad
I actually don't think that they do, and they might do, but I've never had it there, but I have had it here, not in New York, but in America, and I don't love it.
Melanie Avalon
You don't love it.
Barry Conrad
I don't, do you?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, that there's two answers to that. Do I love it? Like, emotionally, mentally? Like, I would, it would taste so good.
Barry Conrad
Really? Maybe I got the wrong thing. Maybe I just ordered the wrong thing.
Melanie Avalon
It's like the greasy Mexican food that you have growing up from fast food, but yeah. Is it Taco Bell that has like the quesadilla that's just so good? I think so. They have a quesadilla that's just delicious, like to die for.
Oh, man. Okay, so Nancy says, Taco Bell, bean burritos minus cheese plus their hottest sauce. I find two to three of these to be a satisfying one meal a day, along with black coffee and lots of sparkling water. I have tested this out on an extended road trip, always makes me feel really good, even with the physically grueling circumstances and suboptimal sleep. Oh, cool. So she gets the bean burrito. She removes the cheese and she adds hot sauce. And she has two to three of those. And then the rest of the day she has black coffee and sparkling water. Cool, Nancy.
Barry Conrad
Sun, do you like hot sauce? Or have you ever liked hot sauce? What's your thoughts on hot sauce? Because it's delicious to me.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't like hot sauce. Do you?
I love it. That's good to know. I need to know that's, I'm running and making a note of that. I feel like people are either hot sauce people or they're, or they're not.
Barry Conrad
Have you seen that show? Is it Hot Ones?
You know, it's a show we interview celebrities and he goes through like a series, I wanna say like nine chicken wings and each wing has a different level of hot sauce.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, I think I've seen this.
Barry Conrad
It's really fun because it gets harder and harder and the thing is the guest can't give like they have to see if they can finish the hardest wing. It's really funny.
Melanie Avalon
I know what you're talking about. Yeah, that's what's the hottest thing you've tasted.
Barry Conrad
I've eaten a whole chili like a day, like a massive chili in India.
Melanie Avalon
help us that.
Barry Conrad
You know, that face was on fire for like a long time.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Have you ever had like, I don't know, is it the ghost pepper that's supposed to be like the one of the hottest?
Barry Conrad
I haven't tried it, but I do love spicy in general. I can do with that, but I can. I love spicy.
Melanie Avalon
I think I might talk about this before you know humans were the only species that engage with that seek out spicy stuff which creates pain for like no reason like there's no like no other animal does that.
Barry Conrad
You have mentioned them. It's very fascinating, but it's not. That's pleasure.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because animals seek out bitterness.
Barry Conrad
I guess it is pain too, but...
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It's interesting that it's pleasure to some people, not others. It's not pleasure to me.
Oh, my goodness. Okay. Let's see what the next one is. Oh, and then Damon said he also does bean burritos, sometimes also. Shout out to Damon. And then Teresa Quodoba, or Doba Quodoba. Do you know that? Okay, that or Chipotle burrito bowl. Yes, there we are. Steak and chicken, extra meat, extra guacamole. That sounds good. That sounds yummy. Do they have Culver's in Australia?
Barry Conrad
They don't. You have so many. We have so many things here. So many options.
Melanie Avalon
Chrissy says Culver's kids meal with the free scoop of custard. Maybe she's having flashbacks of childhood or Chick-fil-A grilled chicken without the bun, add Colby cheese and fruit. It depends on the week I have had.
So this is, I'm going to use this as an example. So like Chick-fil-A grilled chicken. Like you would think that that's just chicken, right? Let me tell you what's in it. Chicken is boneless, skinless chicken breasts containing up to 17% that's one, that's almost one fifth of the chicken. 17% solution of water, seasoning, yeast, extract, onion powder, sea salt, garlic powder, sugar, salt, corn, maltodextrin, gum, Arabic, natural flavor, lemon juice concentrate, vinegar solids. Then they add chicken flavor, which is chicken breast meat, chicken stock, salt, and maltodextrin, modified corn starch, dried vinegar, apple cider vinegar, water, I'm not done yet, soybean oil, sugar, more sugar, cane, molasses, salt, spices, chicken, fat, dehydrated onion, yeast, extract, corn, maltodextrin, I already said that, but it's here twice, lemon peel, dehydrated garlic, red bell pepper, paprika, parsley, xanthan gum, natural flavor, including smoke and calcium, um, de-sodium, EDTA, hyaluric canola oil. So we got seed oils. This is all just in the chicken with dimethyl polysiloxane added to reduce foaming.
Barry Conrad
That's scary to hear.
Melanie Avalon
That was all in the chicken.
Barry Conrad
in this little chicken breast that you think is just chicken but it's not.
Melanie Avalon
And we're only, I'm not even reading the rest because we be here all day. That's just the chicken.
Then you go into what's in like with the bun. Oh, and then they just add like canola oil in general to it.
Barry Conrad
Okay, so this is another thing because with Jimbros or people, not just Jimbros, but people who do go by the calorie deficit train of thought, some people I've seen online are like, whatever goes, goes as long as it's within the quote-unquote calorie count. What's your thoughts on that?
Because some people use fast food within their macros per se, like calorie count for the day. You know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, I mean, if I mean, that works for people, there's like, if you if it fits your macros. And we do know that if you're doing calorie restriction, and you're losing weight, like there are health benefits to that. So multiple things can be true. You can be calorie restricting, eating all of these additives, losing weight, getting health benefits.
And that doesn't change the fact that some of these compounds aren't good for you. And could be, you know, you could be having like immune reactions, people have problems with the seed oils, you know, the processed sugars, all these gums and flavors and additives. So basically, yes, it can work. Yes, you could even be, quote, healthy. Is it ideal and optimal for you? I don't think so.
You know, just, and like why eat, I mean, I know, like money and things like that and flavor, but you also could eat chicken without all of that. You know, and Ian, if you wanted to add some flavor, you could add like some mustard or salt and pepper rather than I mean, that was the such a long list.
Barry Conrad
It was.
Melanie Avalon
So I remember this is what I mean by like to play like the difference between me thinking the healthiness and then reading this thing is just like shocking to me.
Barry Conrad
Would you, okay, maybe putting in the spot, but what fast food would you eat if you had to? Like out of all those options, because you said some of those options are like not too bad, what would you, or where would you go?
Just, okay, just out of the list that we've read here today.
Melanie Avalon
So, because I want to answer that and I want to hear your answer. Can we read the rest because I might get more ideas? I might get more ideas from the answers.
Damon said, I've been eating Arby's on my road trips. I get the biggest meat sandwich they have. Like I said, Arby's had a little bit of additives, but not, not that bad. Joy said, had to, oh, it literally makes me gag thinking about it. If I had to, I guess I could choke down a no meat egg McMuffin. What's funny is like, I would love to do this. And it would be a had to cause I would feel emotional going back to our first conversation, I would feel emotionally guilty about it, but I would, it would taste good.
So Amy Chick-fil-A spicy Southwest salad with creamy salsa dressing. Teresa Taco Bell is the only one that's gluten free. Oh, interesting. So I'd pick that, but if there were no consequences, I get a sub from Jimmy Johns. Oh, do they have like subway and do they have any sub places? In Australia.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, they have subways everywhere in Australia. I actually like subway now and then. It's not too bad.
Melanie Avalon
Subway, I feel like, again, that's something where I think you'd be surprised, people, not you, but people might be surprised if they looked up ingredients like in the chicken, like you would think it's just chicken. I don't think it is.
It is more approachable and that you can, you know, make things work for you. And then let's see. So the rest of them are Phyllis, said Chipotle, or In-N-Out. Kate, I'm a big fan of Roll Up. Not sure if that's a chain that's exclusive to Milwaukee or not. I think I've never heard of it, but I suspect there are others similar. They have fresh spring rolls and salads. I love me a big mama roll with tofu, veggies, and extra freshmen. Kenna, says Applebee, Tex-Mex Shrimp Bowl. Do they have Applebee's in Australia?
Barry Conrad
Don't put it actually every name that you list off I'm just like I want to try these places just because it all sounds really good even though, you know, it does
Melanie Avalon
I mean, it tastes good. Tastes amazing.
Stephanie says Chipotle, Anna says Chipotle, bowl, keto, extra main guac, berry. You said for fast food in the US, Shake Shack, In-N-Out Burger King, Popeyes. Are any of those in Australia?
Barry Conrad
Burger King was in Australia, but we call it a Hungry Jax. It's kind of like the same thing, but just a different name.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Is it the same company?
Barry Conrad
I don't know, but I remember like in New Zealand, for example, it's Burger King, and in Australia, it's Hungry Jack's, it's, I don't know, but there are, I think there are Burger Kings in Australia. I'm not too sure why it's separated, but it's pretty much, it's same-same. Okay, let's see.
Melanie Avalon
Burger King Hungry Jack's is the second-largest franchise of Burger King. It's a Burger King franchise. That's fascinating. Okay.
Barry Conrad
So when I go to Hungry Jack's, I get like a double whopper. Like the burgers do taste really good there. Like they taste.
Melanie Avalon
Like the grilled taste that they have to it. Yeah.
Barry Conrad
It tastes better and it's thicker meat like patties, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I used to, my favorite thing growing up was a kid's double cheeseburger from Burger King. Man, my favorite like fast food meal. Oh, do they have Wendy's in Australia?
Barry Conrad
They have that so okay this is weird in Australia we have Wendy's but it's only desserts in New Zealand we have Wendy's and it's like the full when he's like burgers and stuff I don't know why it's like that.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, so what is it? Frosties?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like, I don't know why it's like that. Let me just look this up because it's weird.
There's no burgers instead of burgers. And yeah, and fast as you'll find soft serve corns and Sundays and hot dogs.
Melanie Avalon
Whoa, hot dogs?
Barry Conrad
Yep. But in New Zealand, it's the full thing. Like you can order burgers and fries and everything. It's really interesting.
I don't know why when I moved to Australia, I'm like, where's the burgers at? It's just like soft, like soft sort of ice creams and like hot dogs and stuff.
Melanie Avalon
Wow, I'm learning so much. Well, to answer your question, and I'm, yeah, I think, so I would have said one thing before reading the poll, but I forgot about Chipotle.
So I think, I have to look up the meat and the ingredients in Chipotle. Like, Have you tried Shake Shack? I actually haven't. I feel like, when did it come out? I feel like it came out after I kind of, I feel like it, yeah, when was it found formed? Do you know?
Barry Conrad
I don't, but the beef, like the patty is not dissimilar to the feeling and the patty of like in and out patty, like it feels a bit more like pressed down beef rather than like a pre-made thing.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like, I mean, it looks really good. Let's see.
I want to see, basically, to answer your, oh, here's, I found the ingredients. Okay. Okay, so I would have to do a deeper dive, because I'm not certain if they add Echovole, if they add stuff. Like, if you can get it plain, they probably do, because it's seasoned, right?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely.
Melanie Avalon
Marinated, okay. I think I would, yeah, I might go to a Burger King or McDonald's.
No, actually, no, no, no. I would go to like In-N-Out, somewhere where I know they use good quality beef, like In-N-Out and just get tons of the burgers.
Barry Conrad
Do you remember the last time you were talking about, you know, people eat like these blocks of butter and stuff like that, like, you know, keto, people are, oh, carnivore eaters, carnivore diet. I saw this lady on Instagram, and she, I want to say that her partner is someone that you know, or who follows you or something. I don't know why, I forgot who it was, but she's of Asian descent. And she's kind of like popular on social media.
And she was talking about like a hack you can do for carnivore followers. And maybe and she's like, she went to McDonald's and bought like all these patties and just had the patties and like, apparently, if you ask for it, then it's like, you can get them for cheaper. And it's like, just the patties. I don't know. It's just this hack she was giving people who ate carnivore.
Melanie Avalon
Well, first of all, if you think of who it is, I'd be curious who it is. That's the thing that's surprising is I think a lot of people would think with these options that you could get like, quote, the least additives at somewhere like Chick-fil-A or Chipotle or something.
But if you just want meat and nothing on it, like McDonald's burgers, Burger King burgers, they don't add stuff to the plate. There is the problem, though, with the gluten cross-contamination, I think. But you get what I'm saying? The way to get plain meat is one of the burger places, honestly, probably.
Barry Conrad
That's pretty that's a good that's good to know because it means that you actually can you can make it work if you went to those places if you really wanted to.
Melanie Avalon
I would be worried, though, about the gluten cross-contamination. Yeah, so what would you get?
Barry Conrad
What would I get? All those places I listed, like, are pretty good. If I had to choose one, I've got to say In-N-Out.
In-N-Out's pretty good. I'll get, like, an animal-style fries, double-double, a couple of double-doubles for sure. That's pretty yum.
Melanie Avalon
I forget for the double double does that mean that it's what it like for patty or like what is it like? How does it translate because don't they do like the two by four like aren't there like different numbers they use?
Barry Conrad
Okay, so the double doubles, no, yeah, they're just two B-patties. Oh yeah, so I get two double doubles because one's not enough for me. Just has two B-patties and one double double.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'll get like 20.
Barry Conrad
So I'll get that and then I'll have, yeah, it's just so good. It's so tasty and fresh and the thick shakes are pretty good too. Like they're really thick.
Melanie Avalon
I used to have them. You know, they put a Bible verse on the bottom of every cup.
Barry Conrad
I saw that.
Melanie Avalon
Little hidden, little hidden something. Awesome. Well, this is a cool episode.
Barry Conrad
It's very interesting, all food-centric, a food-focused episode, which I think is important.
Melanie Avalon
emotions, the guilt, ordering differently, all the things. So, okay. Shall we break our proverbial fast? Let's do it. All right. So Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, I have a restaurant today called the 360 restaurant. And this restaurant, why it's so special, it's record setting.
The wine cellar in the sky holds the Guinness World Record for the world's highest restaurant wine cellar ever at 351 meters elevation. It's the CN Tower dramatic views. So basically, the rotating dining floor and panoramic city views.
Melanie Avalon
made with a rotating dining floor.
Barry Conrad
Bring visual flare combined with the serious wine service and the vibe is meant to be elegant but not overly formal so you go for the view but you definitely stay for the food in the wine and i'm about to send you the where is it you'll see it right now as i send it to you have a look have a look where is it.
Melanie Avalon
What, where?
Barry Conrad
It's in Canada.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, Canada. Canada. I love this. Oh, okay.
Barry Conrad
So you want to go to the the Ellicott.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait, I'm looking at a picture. Hold on. Wait, whoa, it's up there. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That was not what I, I don't know what I was expecting.
Wait, you can, you can do no. Wait, Barry, did you look at the brave the edge walk? Is that where the restaurant is? Do you see this? Did you click this? I do see it. Okay, friends. So this tower thing is like, very tall, you can brave the edge walk and it looks like it looks like they harnessed you to the building and then they let you walk around, because it's round, you get to walk around outside, like free world, like, would you do that?
Barry Conrad
I don't love heights. I don't know if I would do it, but I'd do my best to slight myself up to try, but I don't know if I'd go through with it. It's pretty high. It's really high, isn't it? Look at it. It's crazy. Are you seeing the video playing? Are you watching that? It's nuts.
Melanie Avalon
I, you know, it's funny. So I, I don't want to do it. I don't have any interest in doing it.
Like the walk thing, I could do it though, like, and it's not like something where like there are some things where I'm like, I just I know I can't like I could do that. I don't think I would like it. But I can do it.
Barry Conrad
If I had to do it, I could do it, but I wouldn't enjoy doing that.
Melanie Avalon
Wow, so the restaurant though is right is inside there?
Barry Conrad
Yes, exactly part of that tower. So you know that little top bit there. So if you click on dine at 360 restaurant, I mean, I don't know if you see them. I think it's maybe, yeah, but it's insane.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, local and sustainable. I want to see what it looks like on the inside. Like, I want to see the restaurant on the inside. 360 is what it's called. 360 restaurant.
Barry Conrad
It would be awesome to dine out there. I mean, the car hired it, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, yeah, so it's like circular. Would you be would you have any anxiety dying and dining inside of there?
Barry Conrad
I wouldn't because I mean, it'd be high, but there's something about it being inside and whatnot.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, is it a chain? Oh, it's a chain because they have a lot of them. It looks like like here's one in Florence. Here's one in is it is it Istanbul?
Barry Conrad
But this particular one has the Guinness World Record for the world's highest restaurant wine cellar.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay. I want to see if it's all the same company.
Barry Conrad
Pretty high though.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, our spaces. Oh, yeah, is is more than the home of the world's high. Okay. Okay, so menu. Sorry, I got derailed. No pun intended. Okay, so we're doing the menu.
Barry Conrad
So menu and then go into a la carte and then that takes you to another page with Appetizer's main side dishes seafood bar.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, they use your terminology. Actually, no, you don't use appetizers though.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, we do appetizers.
Melanie Avalon
I thought you'd do entree, main.
Barry Conrad
We do appetizers sometimes, but appetizers mean something different for us. Appetizers is more like an entree type thing. We say entree or appetizer, but appetizer doesn't mean main or entree doesn't mean main, if that makes sense.
Melanie Avalon
Well, according to this menu, appetizers comes first and oh, oh, okay.
Barry Conrad
What's catching your eye?
Melanie Avalon
You know.
Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. The worst is?
Melanie Avalon
The AAA beef carpaccio, don't tempt me with carpaccio, comes with pine nuts, Parmesan, oyster, oyster, AOE, mustard sprouts, Maldon sea salt. I would get all of that on this side.
Yeah, how about you?
Barry Conrad
I will get the oysters, the dozen oysters.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, to share. I missed to share. Oh, okay. Oh, there's oyster. Oh, okay. Well.
Barry Conrad
I'll get the oysters and then i'll also get the handcrafted 360 charcuterie and cheese because i love a charcuterie situation just to have that.
Melanie Avalon
Can I taste from the charcuterie, the, the prosciutto? Yep. Awesome. Okay. Are you getting half a dozen or a dozen oysters?
Barry Conrad
getting a dozen, half a dozen is nothing. That's like, no way.
I actually, Melanie, when I was in, um, I went to New Zealand for a week and this place had me like eat there and I have to post about it. And one of the things I ordered was an entire dozen oysters, which was amazing for myself.
Melanie Avalon
sounds amazing. I want to like oysters and I won't make this a whole oyster tangent but in theory, in theory oysters should taste good because there's so nutri- like there's so many nutrients in there so I don't know why they don't they taste horrible.
Maybe it's too toxic maybe there's too like too many nutrients and so our body's like we might get like over nutrients too much zinc.
Barry Conrad
It's going to be great when you finally come around to it. But anyway, we're here to mains, mains now.
Melanie Avalon
Yes.
Barry Conrad
And this looks very delicious. So Melanie, what are you going to choose? Because there's a few things I think you'd like.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so let me have a look-see here. I would like to get...
Barry Conrad
Good choices, right?
Melanie Avalon
So I'm going to get the King Cole Duck, which is pan roasted breast, confit croquette, French beans and partridge berry juice. But I'm going to get all that on the side.
And then also a steak, a Canadian Triple A steak. I will get the eight ounce tenderloin prepared belue, as belue as they will give it to me.
Barry Conrad
You're not going to go rare plus? A little rare plus.
Melanie Avalon
No, blue, blue, blue, blue.
Barry Conrad
Okay, just to zoom out, we are getting like we were requesting a larger table in general so that we can order extra things so I'm gonna actually gonna get three things I'm gonna get a tenderloin as well.
Melanie Avalon
Three things? Oh my goodness.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, Rare Plus, the Spiced Ontario Lamb Chops and the Nova Scotia Lobster.
Melanie Avalon
and what comes with the lamb chops.
Barry Conrad
Yes, the lamb chops comes with beet puree, rapini, pearl onions, red wine jus, and then no Scottish lobsters, cream spinach, fingerling potato, Ontario corn, drawn butter. That sounds incredible and I'm getting a whole one.
Melanie Avalon
lobster.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, a whole lot of stuff.
Melanie Avalon
Can I taste the lamb chops? How are you getting lamb chops prepared?
Barry Conrad
I'll do that medium, eh?
Melanie Avalon
And have I told you my first experience of lobster and crab? So lobster and crab, and let me know if this was your experience.
Do you remember the first time you... Actually, and scallops. Do you remember the first time you had lobster, crab, or scallops, and or scallops?
Barry Conrad
Actually, hold on. Did you say something like you expected it to be sweeter or sweeter than you thought or something like that?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, just that like all of them they don't taste at all what you think they're gonna taste like at all at all like Shocking to a shocking degree. I thought they were gonna taste like Fishy, I thought they were gonna taste. Ah Very hates it when I say fishy But like I fished can taste fishy. I thought they were gonna taste Like you know the sea and fishy ness and they take like crab and lobster just tastes like sweet Succulent delicious and and scallops. They're all like sweet and yummy.
They're not what you think they taste like honey
Barry Conrad
They're very good.
Melanie Avalon
Wait, what's the seafood bar? Oh, side dishes. Seafood bar. Oh, is this like separate? Oh, we could have gotten some of this as the appetizer.
Barry Conrad
Are some of these side dishes? You may know the seafood bar.
Melanie Avalon
the Seafood Bar.
Barry Conrad
Okay, let's go to the seafood bar, so.
Melanie Avalon
feel like we need to backtrack. So going back to the appetizer, I would also order some things from the seafood bar.
Barry Conrad
What would you get, caviar?
Melanie Avalon
I would have some caviar. Yes. Do you like caviar? Only if you want some caviar.
Barry Conrad
I do like Kevia. Yeah, I love Kevia.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. And then definitely a shrimp cocktail. Oh, wait, they have, they have samplers.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Look at that sample. It's got like, it's like a tower. Like that looks pretty good.
Melanie Avalon
whoa the tower come okay the tower comes with two lobsters you could we could do that and then you would not get your lobster for the entree
Barry Conrad
Let's zoom back, I mean, let's rewind back. Let's, let's, we have to redo this whole thing. Let's delete the, my lobster and let's add a seafood tower.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, the tower or the three, the tower? The tower.
Barry Conrad
A tower, of course, more food.
Melanie Avalon
Well, there's also the 360.
Barry Conrad
Oh wow, the three saw.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so for listeners, so the tower has one lobster, 12 oysters, East Coast mussels, Cape Dior salmon gravlax, three-piece jumbo shrimp cocktail. The 360 has two lobsters, 18 oysters, East Coast mussels, Cape Dior salmon gravlax, four-piece jumbo shrimp cocktail, two Fogo Island snow crab clusters.
I think we need to change around because you ordered oysters in the beginning of the appetizer, we could like mix that and instead get this 360.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think so too. Let's get the 360 and the charcuterie. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. No, and the carpaccio.
Barry Conrad
And the carpaccio and then I'll keep the lamb chops and the steak.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, and I'll get the steak. Okay, I'm glad we figured that out.
Barry Conrad
That sounds like a pretty amazing feast. Any side dishes catching your eye are not really.
Melanie Avalon
Let's have a little look-see. You know what's funny about this? What? Is there ever a situation where a side dish would be like a meat-related thing?
Barry Conrad
Not really, it's always like a vegetable or something like that.
Melanie Avalon
that's how i would do it though like i would want like a side of chicken a side of scallops a side of crab
Barry Conrad
his grilled shrimp.
Melanie Avalon
side of shrimp oh they have they do they have the side of grilled shrimp oh my I don't know if I've ever seen this before like a like a protein side oh my goodness yes add that
Barry Conrad
And I would get, because I do love potatoes of some sort, I would get like, like a baked potato. A baked potato is fine.
Melanie Avalon
What do you get on your potato?
Barry Conrad
I get some butter, some delicious butter, and just salt and pepper, and some braised mushrooms because they're just go down really easy and they're good to have. That's it.
Awesome. Great. That sounds delicious. Well, we're not done. We've got to drink.
Melanie Avalon
We miss the indigenous menu, foraged mushroom soup, hunter style rabbit stew and sweet corn cake. That sounds cool.
Barry Conrad
It actually sounds really good. You know what, I think because of this, we need to also, well, I'm going to order the Hunter style robots too. Are you going to get, you want to try some of that?
Melanie Avalon
They might not let you order at all a cart.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, maybe not. If not, then we will. Yeah, if they do, then we will. If not, then...
Melanie Avalon
You should get that and then I will be.
Barry Conrad
Get everything else?
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can get like rabbit playing like so can I get some rabbit?
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, better than that. Can you get some rubber, please?
Melanie Avalon
I would want that as a thing, like a rabbit, you know, I don't know how you order rabbit, like a rabbit, a rabbit breast, a rabbit filet.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm not too sure what the lingo is for that. Okay, shall we go to the drinks? There's a plethora of options, Melanie.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Do they have a dessert menu? They have a children's dessert menu.
Barry Conrad
It's pretty that if you got a pre-fee prefix, then there's appetizers, mains, and desserts.
Melanie Avalon
That's only on that menu. There's not a...
Barry Conrad
I'm sure that they could whip something up. Let's just go there anyway.
Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yeah, we'll work with what we have. So from that, I mean, I don't, what would you get?
Barry Conrad
dark chocolate and sour cherry torte, because there's no milk chocolate then, sorry, because I don't love white chocolate that much. I mean, so the best next thing would be the dark chocolate and sour cherry torte.
Melanie Avalon
You know white chocolate is technically not even chocolate.
Barry Conrad
Well, that's disappointing.
Melanie Avalon
It's like certain solids from the plant, but it's not, yeah, I went down a rabbit hole learning about white chocolate.
Barry Conrad
What would you get from this situation?
Melanie Avalon
Honestly, so I would not well, I would get depending on what I like the most I would get a repeat of that because that Tower that we got had a lot of stuff on it so but probably I would get more carpaccio because that's normally the thing that I Like just love love love love love. So probably another carpaccio.
But if I were to get a dessert on the kids menu they have They have a cookie and I love cookies so I might get the cookie
Barry Conrad
I'm glad that you're getting cooked. I think this might be the first time you've ever actually ordered a dessert.
Melanie Avalon
No, I'm not getting it. No, I'm saying if I had to like, no, no, Barry, don't get your hopes up. I'm not actually getting it. I'm saying like, if I like had, you know,
Barry Conrad
What about just like a bite, like a morsel of it? No.
Melanie Avalon
Oh man, I can't wait till we have a meal in real life and we can experience you trying to convince me to have just a bite and my resilient, you know, not having a bite, it's going to be fun. What's fun about it is I think you probably think you can convince me, but the amount of like my, my like boundary barrier there is so firm.
Like you cannot break through. I cannot be broken. It'll be fun.
Barry Conrad
All right, it will be fun for sure. And then drinks? Let's go to drinks and there's so many options. There's rosé there, there's wine, there's, I mean, there's white wine, red wine, cocktails.
Melanie Avalon
So what would you get? For me, it takes a while because I have to look through.
Barry Conrad
Okay, to start, I always like to get a cocktail first. That's just my kind of way in any restaurant, then I'll usually go into the wine.
So I'll go with the fare of the place, which is, there's a 360 sunset, it's like a trademark 360 restaurant, so I'll try that. And then I'll go onto maybe like a rosé. Why not? Since I'm on that rosé vibe at the moment.
Melanie Avalon
I like that they have 5 ounce pours.
Barry Conrad
Get like a bottle, bottle of rosé, for the table. Perfect.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, which one the the French one? Yeah, and then for me I would have to do my whole little like research see what's organic Oh, which by the way a little fun fact for friends.
So I have learned that you can Take a photo of the wine menu at a restaurant go to chat GPT say Are these organic you can like ask all your questions like are these organic which ones are low alcohol and then it will give you like all the information that you need right away, so that has been a game-changer and Just really optimizing my restaurant experience because now I can quickly get information So I would do that and then based on that I would pick a wine that is organic lower alcohol dry all the things
Barry Conrad
Sounds great or Melanie, this would be a feast very high in the air, but quite a feast. Like this is a lot, this is probably one of the most amounts of food we've actually ever proverbially ordered.
Melanie Avalon
I think so. I was thinking about that because the tower alone that starts it off is kind of like five meals for two people in one thing.
And then you still kept the Turkutari board and the carpagio. To be fair.
Barry Conrad
You know that seafood is so much easier to eat and digest, it's not the same as eating like a steak, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, we've talked about this before. And honestly, like thinking about it, I can't even envision.
So if I was only eating seafood, I don't, I can't even envision feeling super full from it. Even if I ate like pounds and pounds, like there's some, it's weird, because there's something in like chicken and steak that gives you that satiety feeling that just doesn't come from seafood.
Barry Conrad
I mean, I think salmon graveleks, which is absolutely delicious. I had it during Christmas. That's probably going to be the only thing that's going to be salmon, salmon graveleks.
Melanie Avalon
What is that? Was that what I read on this menu earlier, actually?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like it's kind of like smoked salmon type situation, but like with salty, the way it's prepared, it's very, it's very delicious. But that's probably the only thing that will feel filling, per se, but I could just eat seafood for days and just it'll just be so feel very hedonic. Let's say that way.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, hey, yes, yes. That was literally what I read earlier and I didn't know what it was. Okay, so salmon, Gravelix. So it's like smoked salmon.
Barry Conrad
Kind of like that, that's sort of the way it's prepared, but it's like overnight you press it down. It's like it's a whole situation, but it's actually very, very good. It's very good.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Well, good find. We must go. Oh, and there's a picture of the tower. Do you see it?
Barry Conrad
Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Melanie Avalon
Look at all of your little oysters at the bottom all 18 of them hanging out
Barry Conrad
You're going to have so many, I can't wait for you to try it.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, that's a good find. I did find out, so my dad, he loves, he loves like fine dining. And so he would love to come, except I just found out he has a horrible fear of heights, so I don't think he could actually come with us next time.
Next time. Well, this was so, so fun. Good find friends. Thank you so much for being here with us for all the things. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can get these show notes at ifpodcast.com slash episode 447. That will have links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifpodcast, I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. All right. Think that's all the things. Anything from you before we go?
Barry Conrad
Thank you once again for tuning in, everyone, and we'll talk to you next week.
Melanie Avalon
Alright, talk to you next week!
Barry Conrad
Okay, bye.
Melanie Avalon
Hi! Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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