#444 – Fasting, Food & The Bible, Processed Foods Vs. Whole Foods, Dieting Problems, Offending People With Food Choices, Cultural Food Choices, Fasting And Gas Issues, Digesting, And More!
Welcome to Episode 444 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 444 of the Intermittent Fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting podcast.
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 444 of the Intermittent Fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today for episode 444?
Barry Conrad
That's so crazy. Is that like good luck or something? What is that? 4-4-4?
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I think if we say it is, then it is.
Barry Conrad
We've decided it is. It's good luck. That's a good thing.
I'm great. I'm doing good other than I actually have an injury. Oh, I, this week, the beginning of this week, there's a scene that we do where there's like, it's a towel fight. It sounds really mundane, but I'm running around doing this towel fight. And I basically, as I was flicking my right arm at the exact same time, I knocked my foot against one of the tables. So the way I flicked my arm sort of rotated in a tricky way and it aggravated an old injury that I had like five years ago from doing a high dance musical theater show. And so I've been in the physio the past little while.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. Is it getting better and is it limiting or impeding when you, you know, rehearse?
Barry Conrad
Thankfully, like, thankfully I can just use the other arm for the action and when I also have to pick up one of my co-stars, but it's not too high. So it's been thankfully okay.
Like I'm so glad you don't want to go into the season and be injured. But yeah, just like, it's so crazy how there's an injury from so long ago, like rotator cuff. My right rotator cuff is just like, it's just like annoying. Like if it gets niggled, because now I haven't been able to go to the gym this past week, but I can go, I've been given the okay to go back on Monday. So that's good. I just have to take it easy and ease into it.
Melanie Avalon
Do you have a red light device?
Barry Conrad
I actually don't anymore because I left it in Sydney, so I don't have 9-0. It's annoying.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Cause that's really helpful for things like that. Um, I am so sorry. Oh, that's you. It's not your fault, but yeah, that you could do.
It's, it's interesting. Listeners should check out episode 438. I interviewed on that show, Dr. Christopher Meadows, Barry, you would, you would really like the conversation. He, I met him through Cameron chestnut, who is kind of has a large social media following for cosmetic surgery and procedures that he does, but he has a very like biohacking, like approach to recovery. And he doesn't even use traditional anesthesia and things like that. Somebody at his clinic is Dr. Christopher Meadows, and he played football at UCLA. And then he went to medical school and his focus is regenerative medicine. And so this he, what, what he does really is work with people with injuries and helping them recover. And we talked about, you were mentioning how this kind of like reactivated an old inner injury. So he was talking about using diagnostics to treat like new injuries versus chronic injuries that you've had. And we talked a lot about the role of fasting and recovery. So that was a really, really good episode to listen to for people who might be experiencing things like Barry with, with injuries, either ones that won't go away or new ones and also the role of fasting and all of it.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds really interesting. I need to get that, need to listen to that for sure.
Melanie Avalon
So yeah, it's a lot of like peptides, stem cells, like PRP treatments and things like that.
Barry Conrad
I've done, I did needle it, they did needling on me as well, which really did help a lot. Have you done that before?
Melanie Avalon
I have, yeah. And I actually had it done at a physio type place. I've had it done in my jaw actually. Your jaw? Yeah, for like TMJ, TMD. Okay. Did it help you?
Barry Conrad
I think it really did. It's a bit achy, but there's more of a release, and I definitely feel like by the time Monday rolls around, because she also took me through my range of motion and movement now, and the shoulder, and it's bounced back pretty well, so I've got to also give intermittent fasting some credit for that, because it was pretty quick.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think the fasting is so good for just maintaining an anti-inflammatory state in the body. And then with the needling, my understanding that the way it works is that it helps... One of the ways that it works is it stimulates a minor injury in that area that helps boost stem cells going to the area and helping repair.
I think that's one of the mechanisms of action there. So your own endogenous stem cells, basically.
Barry Conrad
It's actually so amazing because it was talking to the physiotherapist and I said, who invented this technique? Like it's, it's so crazy how someone just made this up or discovered that this works. You know, it's amazing needling.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because it's been around forever, right? Like traditional Chinese medicine and things like that.
Barry Conrad
Thank you, Panksha. Yeah, exactly.
Melanie Avalon
Well, keep us updated.
Barry Conrad
I will.
Melanie Avalon
Hope you're back to complete sparkles very soon
Barry Conrad
I won't go mountain climbing or anything today, it's all good.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, maybe maybe don't do that. I mean, I would never go mountain climbing, but
Barry Conrad
How you doing?
Melanie Avalon
I am I'm good I'm in a big transition phase right now with my business we're actually hiring three people so I've been doing lots of lots of interviews. Which this this is something it's so interesting to be on the like the hiring side of the table because you realize you realize.
Because I just get flashbacks to when I used to interview for things and I'd be like I would think I was like the perfect candidate and you realize there's so many things that go into it that are not necessarily even you and I especially with like auditions and things you know like you just don't know like all the factors for why they've cast certain people. So it's been an interesting experience to like I think I've interviewed like I don't know 15 people or so and just the seeing like who I ended up picking and why and then also feeling like it's such a big decision that's going to have such a big effect on my future of my company so it's it's been it's been a lot been like baptism by fire but I've been enjoying it I'm really excited about the new team I'm creating.
Barry Conrad
That's amazing. Give me an example of what you mean without going into detail of in terms of it's interesting what you how you selected them and it made you realize it's so not just about X, Y or Z.
There's so many factors.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so like an example would be being I now understand how you can be overqualified for a position. So like we had one girl who was really amazing. And she's getting her master's right now, she's going to graduate, you know, in a year or so I don't know when she's when she was going to graduate. But I remember thinking because the job she was applying for is very applicable to her right now. But once she graduates, you know, she probably would either really up her rates or might look for a full time job elsewhere. So it's like she's almost too qualified for the position, if that makes sense. And that she I don't think she would like stick with the position in the future. So things like that.
I had a lot of well, if you're ever applying for a position with me, if you want to know so when I'm like going through all the all the proposals, because I've been using Upwork a lot to do this. And so you get tons of proposals, like tons. So you have to go through and you have to just like quickly, you know, eliminate a lot of them. So people who use long dashes. If I could tell if I could tell they use chat. Nope. So, you know, I mean, use chat, please use chat, but clean it up so it doesn't look like chat. You know, so yeah, but it's, it's been a really great I'm actually I'm very excited about the three girls that we are hiring.
Barry Conrad
That's very exciting, very, very exciting.
Melanie Avalon
Yep, shall we jump into some fasting related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. You have an amazing study for us today, Melanie Avalon.
Melanie Avalon
I do. I'm very excited about this Barry Conrad. Barry Conrad, who I appreciate so much in my life, telling you that right now.
Okay, let me get the study. So this study is called, well, it was published in Cell Metabolism. It was 2019. But the reason that I picked it is this was actually the first ever randomized controlled trial that looked at the effects of ultra-process foods and if they cause weight gain or not. And it's by one of my favorite researchers, Kevin Hall. I'm like a fangirl of a researcher. I should try to have them on the show. Let me write that down. So the study is called, ultra-process diets cause excess calorie intake and weight gain and inpatient randomized controlled trial of ad libitum food intake. So the setup of this study, the purpose of the study was, as they say in the intro, that scientists at that time had not yet been able to actually demonstrate that ultra-process foods cause obesity or problematic health effects. So they wanted to do an actual randomized controlled trial to look at this. And I find this so interesting. So the setup was they had 10 men, 10 women who were at a stable weight and this was an inpatient situation. So they weren't doing this at home. They were like, it was very controlled. And they did it for 28 days and they were randomly assigned to either an ultra-process diet or an unprocessed diet. And they did both of them for two weeks. So basically like 10 of them did two weeks of ultra-processed while the other 10 did processed and then they flip-flopped. And the way it was done was they just presented three meals a day, but they give them snacks as well. And they gave them two times the amount of calories that they needed to maintain their weight. So basically it was like a free-for-all, all this food, eat whatever you want, we're going to see what happens. And the people who ate whole foods, it was whole foods. The people ate ultra-processed foods. And the definition of ultra-processed foods according to the Nova classification is, so those are industrial formulations made with multiple ingredients, including those found in processed foods like sugars, oils, fats, salt preservatives, plus additives for taste and convenience. So it's things like soda, chips, American cheese, frozen pizza, packaged cakes. meat products, chicken nuggets. And by meat products, it's like processed bologna or pepperoni or something. So what they found was... Oh, and what's really important is they tried to match, as close as they could, they tried to match the meals for total calories. So it was the same amount of calories for the processed and the unprocessed, same energy density, same macronutrients. So they tried to make it the same amount of carbs, fats and proteins, same fiber, same sugar, same sodium. The only thing that was different was... Well, the main thing that was different was how much of it was processed versus unprocessed.
Melanie Avalon
And then also there were some things that they couldn't quite match up because it just... They couldn't do the math. Like it didn't work to make it match. And that was things like added sugar. So there's clearly way more added sugar in the processed foods, insoluble to total fiber ratio, saturated fat. There was way more saturated fat in the processed foods. And then omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids, there was more omega-6 in the processed foods. And so what they found... And again, these people were not told to try to lose weight or gain weight or anything. They were told just to eat, was that the people when they ate the un... So when they ate the processed foods... Let me get the number. They actually consumed around 500 calories more when they ate the processed foods. And they also gained more weight.
The patients on the ultra-processed diet gained around a pound during the ultra-processed diet. And they actually lost around a pound on the unprocessed diet, which is so fascinating because these people weren't told to try to lose weight. And by eating just unprocessed foods as much as they wanted, they actually lost weight. Whereas by eating processed foods as much as they wanted, they gained weight. And what's also interesting is that the experience of the people was the same. So when they were eating processed foods versus unprocessed foods, at the end of their eating time, they felt equally satisfied. So people were eating 500 calories less and feeling the same as the people who ate 500 calories more than that just because they chose whole foods versus processed foods. And they actually saw in the unprocessed food group that their levels of ghrelin, which is a hunger hormone, actually went down. On the flip side, they found that the hormone PYY, which actually suppresses appetite, went up. So they were experiencing beneficial changes from eating the whole foods diet that made them less hungry, essentially.
One of their theories, because this is also interesting, was they seemed to eat the same amount of protein both groups did. It's just that the people who ate the processed food ate way more fat and way more carbs. So they were saying that this might be the protein leverage hypothesis showing up, which is basically that we keep eating until we hit the amount of protein that we need. So it's possible that the people eating the processed foods kept eating the processed foods until they hit that protein number, and then they stopped. And so in that process, it made them eat more fat and more carbs. Yeah, so that was the main takeaways from it. Basically, their conclusion was that processed foods have a big effect in actually leading to weight gain, making us eat more linked to negative health conditions. So going the whole foods route is the way to go. So what are your thoughts on this, Barry?
Barry Conrad
As soon as you mentioned the title for this, I was like super interested to see what was going to happen. And I'm not surprised that it probably took the ultra-process group longer to probably get the satiety as well and just keep eating until they got those macronutrients that the process slash whole foods goop had.
I'm not also surprised that it's interesting that it's like a pound either way for both groups. I actually maybe thought that would have been a bit more even for the ultra-process. Do you know what I mean?
Melanie Avalon
It's like shockingly similar. It says with participants gaining 0.9 plus or minus 0.3 pounds during the ultra-process diet and losing 0.9 plus or minus 0.3 pounds during the unprocessed diet. Almost the exact same amount, which is really crazy.
I agree with you. I thought about that. Like maybe with the ultra-process diet, you just like from a literal time perspective, it takes a second to get that satiety signal. And so you probably eat more before you feel full, before your body to give you a feedback loop.
Barry Conrad
So the processed food, to clarify the process, is the ultra-processed? Because did you say ultra-processed versus processed?
Melanie Avalon
culture process.
Barry Conrad
Okay, so the ultra-processed food, naturally, that makes total sense that the 8500 calories more. You could just keep eating as well, because when I'm having a bag of chips, for example, I'm going to keep eating that bag until it's done, whereas if I'm having a steak, I'm going to feel so much more satisfied and satiated, because my body's going to tell me, so it's just... Yeah, but still, even with that, I'm still quite surprised that it's not that much more than a pound gained.
I was expecting a bit more weight, which is crazy, because it's basically heaven for people who love junk food, quote-unquote, just to eat as much as they want, you know?
Melanie Avalon
So to that point, because I think that's like such a good point, we do know, I think this might have been a little bit protective. We know that there's something called the Hawthorne effect, which is basically when you know you're being monitored, you change your habits accordingly.
So just the fact that they're in being like in a study, being monitored, they probably, with the ultra processed diet, they probably didn't eat as much as they would have if this been like at home, you know, because I do think I'm actually I am surprised they only gained that, you know, only 0.9. But do you get what I'm saying?
Barry Conrad
What's that called no the what effect hawthorn effect that's really interesting and makes total sense because if you are being watched so. It's like any situation like if i'm being seen or watched i'm not gonna be behave exactly the same way i might behave. Depending what it is you know if i was at home alone with anyone watching.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's so it's like defined as individuals modify their behavior simply because they are aware of being observed during a study or experiment. It actually makes it really, really hard to do unbiased research because you can't control for this effect because people are going to modify even if they don't know they're doing it.
Barry Conrad
I didn't even account for that because I was initially looking through all these other points you made like 10 women, 10 men, very in a clinic, inpatient, you know, very controlled. And so I'm like, well, then how is it only a pound?
But now that you mentioned that, that makes total sense.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so and on top of that, so two things. A, that observation probably made them, you know, not eat as much as they would have. And then B, we know that when people are going on like a any sort of prescribed diet, even though it was ad libidum and they can eat whatever they want, regardless, when you go on like a prescribed diet type thing, you tend to actually eat less. So just by that change, so that probably it's a similar factor.
But and I just I just pulled up, I hadn't looked at this, I just pulled up the supplementary PDF that goes with it. Do you want to hear like what what the diet kind of was? They have pictures of the meals and everything.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, sure. I want to see it. Yeah, awesome. Tell me.
Melanie Avalon
So it's things like, for breakfast, like Honey Nut Cheerios, whole milk with Nutrisource fiber, blueberry muffin, lunch was like beef ravioli, Chef Boyardee, Parmesan cheese, white bread, margarine, diet lemonade, oatmeal raisin cookie. And then dinner was like Tyson's steak with gravy, mashed potatoes, margarine, corn, diet lemonade, low-fat chocolate milk.
They go through the entire two weeks. So let me see if there's anything else. Like, let's see, hot dogs, potato chips, cranberry juice, bagels, a lot of diet drinks, apple juice, cheeseburgers. So it's things that people are eating all the time, you know, like normally sandwiches with deli, turkey and American cheese. So it's wild that these foods that are so seemingly normal to people, that people just eat 24 seven, that it could be having that big of an effect on, you know, I mean, everything with our weight loss and our health.
Barry Conrad
Of course, and just like even being in a workplace, meaning like I'm not normally in a workplace unless I'm doing a show, you know, I usually do my own thing, but when being doing a show and seeing people's habits and whatnot, which is all power to whatever you want to do. But it's just there's so many snacks, there's so many, there's so much access to snacks and things like that.
And it's interesting to see what people see as like, Oh, this is just a normal little thing. I feel hungry. So I should eat this in my head, I just wouldn't, you know, it's just so interesting. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I think about this a lot kind of similarly, like I think about this like with the snacks like you mentioned, the if somebody gets like a they could get like a cookie, like a thing of cookie snacks, or I think of chips, and it could be like, you know, 300 calories. And you can just eat that so fast, and it's like just a little snack and like what like what hard like what harm is it going to do?
Think about how much whole foods you could get for that same amount of calories.
Barry Conrad
I 100% know what you mean. It's scary actually.
Melanie Avalon
Really is. I actually, I don't know how we're not bigger than we are.
Barry Conrad
But also, like, again, and I just want to make clear as well, I'm not demonizing you. Everyone eat whatever they want to eat.
I'm just saying it's interesting how what is what people believe based on just conditioning or what they have grown up with, they think is just okay, it's just something little and it's no big deal. But in, I think for people like Melanie and I who have more, we're just more informed with what the content of food is. And just to see, wow, that's that's a 500 calories, quote unquote, snack really small. But I can eat so much like animal protein and, you know, and so much more satisfying.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think it's like we just we just don't see it. You know, if people could just see it.
One other thing that was really interesting. I'd be curious why you might what you think might be going on here. There wasn't a big. So when they ate the whole foods, there wasn't a big difference. Like they basically consume the same amount throughout the two weeks. But with the unprocessed, there was a linear decrease. So basically, they ate more in the beginning with the ultra processed foods. And then as the day went on, they actually started it they titrate it down a little bit.
Barry Conrad
Well, my thought on that is it's the whole thing where if you can't have it, it's more fun to have it, but if you can have it, it's like, Oh, well, your body's probably more checked into like, I don't, maybe I don't actually don't want as much of it. You know, it's like, it's that initial feeling like, yeah, I can do whatever I want. That's my thought psychologically.
And even physiology, physiologically, feeling not as great eating too much of it, you know, getting bored.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I think I think also maybe maybe the body does adapt like maybe like when you first get exposed to if you if you're coming from like a unprocessed diet or just not an all processed diet, the body might like at the beginning you probably just need to like eat all the things to even feel full and then maybe the body starts adapting to it you know your microbiome changes and then you can maybe get along without having to quite stuff yourself quite as much but yeah I don't know.
Barry Conrad
I do think one of the amazing things about intermittent fasting, Melanie, and tell me if you agree or not, is that over time, it doesn't mean that you might not still want trinkets or junk food and things like that, because for me personally, I still enjoy it. But it's interesting that knowing that I can have it if I want to, but just that knowledge means like, oh, it's actually not an emergency that I'm not having it.
It's like because I can have it, it's not a demonized food. So does that make sense?
Melanie Avalon
It completely does. So I'm a little bit different in that I guess I could have anything. I just know if I were to have it, I would not be happy or having it, nor for me, because of the feeling that it creates in me. And what I'm thinking of in comparison is what I like about fasting is not having food during the day and looking forward every night to like this wonderful meal is just so fabulous compared to when I was back in the day like dieting and like I think the most miserable experience of dieting is you're never full because you're just constantly you know restricting and then you have to finish eating before you're full and then you have to wait again to eat at which point you're not going to eat until you're full again and then you have and then it ends. It was so sad. It was like such a sad existence. Not I mean I wasn't like emotionally sad but I'm saying like it was not fun. Like I still it's been so long since I've done that and I still shudder remembering it like how horrible it felt.
Barry Conrad
I still believe, well, because I see it, that that's still something that's preached, but especially online anyway, certainly online that don't eat until you're full or, you know, it's okay to go to bed hungry. It's fine if you want to be skinny, just it's dangerous. I don't like that.
Melanie Avalon
I hated going to bed hungry. Oh my goodness. I just hated like being hungry all the time.
Whereas now I do get hungry during the fast actually but if I ever do it's not an emergency feeling and it's more like oh I'm excited to eat later feeling if I get hungry.
Barry Conrad
It's also, just to add to that email, I just think, in general, food is just such an emotional topic for people. It really is, and so personal. People get so, not triggers the wrong word, but just passionate about, well, why can't I have that? Or, I don't know, it's just very, it's very interesting. Very, very, very interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Actually, that's crazy timing, so this is going to be way in the past for listeners. But the episode I'm releasing this week on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast is with Ben Greenfield, who is like a legend in the biohacking sphere.
We actually talked on the show because he's Christian, and we talked a little bit about like his bio, like was Jesus a biohacker? And one of the things we talked about that I really liked was there's this verse in the Bible. There's this story in the Bible where it's a, I don't know if you remember it. It's about eating certain things at the table and like whether or not to eat them. Do you know which Bible verse I'm talking about?
Barry Conrad
Can you say the verse so I can, maybe it'll.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so it's 1 Corinthians 10, 27 through 29. And it says, if one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.
But if someone says to you, this has been offered in sacrifice, then do not eat it for the sake of the one who informed you. And for the sake of conscience, I do not mean your conscience but his.
Barry Conrad
Hmm, I do remember that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and because I remember I used to, I actually used to get into arguments with my mom about this verse, because when I first started doing low carb, I think it was in college and I would go home and I would like not, I would at the restaurant, I would, you know, not I would not eat the cake. And I think it kind of made her like sad, because she wanted me to, you know, things that were like emotional, and like memories, I but I wouldn't eat them anymore.
And it's funny, because we would argue over this verse, because she was saying like, versus eat the things I'm like, Mom, the verse says that you don't have to eat the things or like that. I was saying that the verse was saying that you shouldn't inflict your own diet on other people. Like you could use this verse to say either either way, because maybe I'm going to the dinner and not eating the things and that's the problem. But also maybe it's saying that, you know, that you shouldn't question what other people are eating. It's just funny, because Ben Greenfield and I were talking about it. And we're talking about like dietary dogma and having your own choices. But also, you know, when should you change your choices based on the company that you're around? I don't know how I got on this tangent. But I think it's really interesting.
Barry Conrad
It's, Mel, this is fascinating because now that you brought this up, I do remember as a kid, we were always taught, or whatever's served at the visitor, we call it visitors, at the visitor's house, just you eat it. Just be polite and just you eat it.
Just don't question it. Just eat it, unless you're allergic, just eat the food. And I took that into a lot of my adult life, whatever they cook. And in most cases, because we are different in that way, I will eat more of a range of things because it doesn't cause as many health situations in terms of it. But I don't love it sometimes, but I'll still eat it because it's like, I guess I can eat this. But I'm always happy doing it. Now I don't do as much at all.
Melanie Avalon
What's so interesting though is like it's so, because like I said, we used to use this verse and we would use it to say different things because on the one hand, because it's basically the first part of it is saying, like in your example, when you go to somebody's dinner, eat what you're served, like for, you know, for them, because you don't, and like what this verse is saying is you don't want to make it like a whole, a whole thing for them. I was using it to say the opposite, which is like, I feel like the spirit of the verse is that in general, we shouldn't impose our own dietary beliefs on other people.
So if I want to eat low carb, I should be able to eat low carb, you know? Yeah. Now I just, I just eat whatever I want to eat. So I'm trying to think if I've been in a situation where it's very cultural, like I would struggle, it would be hard if I had to go somewhere where it really is going to be really offensive, you know?
Barry Conrad
Totally. I think in that case for me, I would try and I probably wouldn't succeed entirely, but I try to see, okay, what is the protocol? What is the situation I'm going into? Are they going to expect this, this, or this? And if I'm comfortable doing that, I should totally go.
But if I'm not comfortable, then is it worth? I don't know. Also, some people might say it's just food. Deal with it.
Melanie Avalon
it's so emotional, it's so cultural. And of course, you don't want to offend people, especially if you're going, if it's like a situation where it's cultural, and it's gonna be very offensive to not eat it. But, and then also, though, in my head, I'm like, well, I should not have to eat something I don't, don't want to eat, like, I don't think it should actually be offensive to people. So, but that's coming from a completely different foundational view of it.
And people have different perspectives. So, like you said, I, I think if I knew it was something where it was going to be super offensive, and it was something where I knew I was not going to feel well in the situation of eating it, I probably would just not go. This is only this is I mean, I'm good anything in America, I'll go to, but if it was something like, I don't know enough about different cultures. So there I know there are probably situations where it would be like a horrible offense culturally. I wouldn't want to do that to them.
Barry Conrad
Because I do know definitely food is very personal to some, like, for example, going to like a Samoan family's Sunday lunch, like, they get offended if you don't not only eat whatever's everything on the table, but have more and more, like, no, keep, no, have some more, like, that's like a sign of, it's so interesting how different food and amounts of food, even like what it means to different cultures, so crazy.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And then like I'm saying in my head, I'm like, I think people should be able to eat whatever they want to eat.
It's like, it's like, yeah, it's like being in a state of freedom and then going somewhere where there's not freedom. And it's just you don't have the same cult, you're just not on the same foundation to understand each other.
Barry Conrad
Even with fasting, Melanie, the whole thing about, well, why don't you just eat with us now? Because we're all eating.
But then for example, doing Destiny, there's these things called cook sisters, which is their South African donuts. And so one of the cast members' moms made these donuts and they brought them into the rehearsal room. Obviously, that was during the morning slash day. I took a couple and wrapped them up for the time I broke my fast. The old me, who used to be very people pleasing, would have said, I guess I'll just eat them because I'll feel bad that I'm not eating with everyone else. But you just have to do you.
Melanie Avalon
I am so good at it now. Like I go to family events all the time and I, I just drink wine. I'm like, yeah, but it, it took a long time to, to get there for me personally.
It sounds like you too, you know, like now you feel comfortable bringing them home to have later. Yeah, one thing you can do, and I've shared this before on the show, but oftentimes people, so you not accepting the, the meal or the thing that was made feels like a rejection of that person's offering of love to you. Cause that's what food often is. It's like an offering of love. So you can decline that food and then provide them an opportunity to give you love in a different way. So, and again, I've talked about this before, but if say they're like, oh, here's this, if your grandmother's like, I made this cake for you, you can be like, you know, thank you so much. I'm, you know, either I'm not hungry right now. I'm, you know, whatever say, but could you make me some tea or like, or, you know, give them like an alternate that they can, it doesn't have to be food. He'd be like, but instead could we like do a puzzle? I don't know. Like if you give them something else that they can then gift you, they won't feel as much like the ring rejected.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, just yeah. I do think for some people, like the emotional intelligence or maybe just it's so steeped in their conditioning that they probably wouldn't be able to see the reason why.
Why can't you just eat it? You know, like it's just hard to explain sometimes to people, you know? It's a constant thing.
Melanie Avalon
This is why you got to just find your fellow internment and fasting person or family.
Barry Conrad
But also, Mel, don't you agree that if you don't actually make a big deal of it and you just stand there drinking wine and you don't bring anything up, most people don't notice. But if you make a big deal like, oh my gosh, I'm so hungry, I can't wait to eat, then you make it a big deal, you know?
Melanie Avalon
Mm hmm. Yeah, I have gone to so many like dinners dinners and not this is typically when I'm going on like a like a this happens a lot with like a biohacking conference when I go to the dinner because I want to go to the party thing party thing and part of it's a dinner. And I mean, again, biohackers are more accustomed to fasting, but I've done this at like non health conferences. I just sit there and I'm like, I'm just you know, I'm not eating right.
I'm eating later or I just drink water and wine and don't make a big deal of it is the point.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, don't draw attention to yourself.
Melanie Avalon
And if they're super concerned and obsessed, that's their problem. That's not you.
All right, shall we answer a listener question? Let's do it. So our first question comes from Teresa and the subject is, can we talk about gas? Love it. And Teresa says, I'm sorry to bring this up but hoping I'm not the only one with this problem. I've always had periodic issues with gas odor like once a week but since beginning intermittent fasting a month ago, it's every single night, all caps. We are talking, husband sleeping on the couch kind of bad. Oh my goodness. She says, I've been to a doctor and have blood work done so I'm not looking for medical advice but just wondering if anyone else has been through this and what the problem was. Thank you so much. And then she signs off stinky in Seattle. Love it.
Barry Conrad
That's really funny. That's hilarious.
Well, Teresa, thank you so much for your question. And don't be sorry for asking any questions. The great thing about intermittent fasting is it's really good for inflammation and weight management and clarity. But it also can come with a period of digestive adjustment. And yeah, that can also mean your gut bugs can sometimes throw a bit of a nighttime party that your partner obviously is noticing. So when you collapse your eating into a tighter window, not only does your body adapt to burning that stored energy, but your microbiome also recalibrates. So if you've filled your meals with high fiber powerhouses like veggies, beans, lentils, I don't love beans, by the way, or whole grains, you're giving your gut bacteria more fermentable substrate. So by day, you're happily digesting. But at night, as the house settles down and intestines take over, those microbes feast and have a nice little gathering and produce extra gas, the result can be, well, more like an acoustic situation that you might not like, that your partner doesn't, your husband doesn't like. So you might try, maybe try sliding your eating window earlier in the evening, maybe. And if you've been breaking your fast, say, around noon and eating till 7 or 8, maybe consider closing shop at 6 PM as an experiment. That extra hour or two, maybe, of daylight digestion could, maybe, reduce overnight fermentation. And another thing is mindful chewing and not just attacking your plate. Well, this is coming, the kettle calling the pot black because I devour my food. But maybe mindful chewing is another underrated tip you might try. And if you take a moment to really break down each fork full and reduce large food particles heading into your intestines, that could help. And even a gentle 10, 15 minute walk after a meal, your final meal could be good. It doesn't need to be like a workout, just leisurely stroll around, could help food transit more smoothly rather than let it sit away and bubble away and marinate. I've heard of people having a scoop of digestive bitters or something like that, a bit of an enzyme supplement even before dinner. And that primes your stomach's acid and enzyme output, which front loading the breakdown of proteins and stuff, which could help too. And if you're suspecting it's FODMAP triggers, common offenders could be garlic or onions or apples, beans. It can be eye opening to keep a simple, maybe like a log or like a little diary for a week or so just to see what you're having. And if it makes a difference to maybe take it out for a little while, jot it down. And you might also spot when you have a lentil salad or a big helping of Brussels sprouts the next night. If it gets noisier or more odorous, then you can maybe rotate or reduce those specific ingredients. Hydration's massive as well, Teresa. So definitely making sure that you have enough water, because a lot of us think we are. But even mild dehydration, which is not intense, but mild dehydration can slow digestion and really worsen that gas buildup as well.
Barry Conrad
So aim to really consistently sit throughout the day or make sure you're just getting enough water in there. Last but not least, I reckon just don't be too hard on your microbiome or get too doubt in yourself.
If your body's adapting to a new routine or a novel routine, that phase could maybe take a little while. So with those little tweaks, those little tips, see if that makes a difference. And I reckon your gut will likely settle down into a schedule. And those nocturnal announcements might dwindle a little bit. But yeah, hopefully convincing your spouse to give you the sofa for a bit of a break as well, and you won't feel so bad. But Mel, what do you reckon?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness, Barry, that was so, so, like, descriptive. We got little, little gut buddies doing, having their party, making those little acoustic sounds. It's like, it was a vibe. Love it.
And that was overwhelmingly comprehensive and incredible. So I was going to say a lot of really similar things. And so something that I was going to say at the beginning was my first question, if I were to hear this from anybody, would be, do you experience this when you're not fasting? And so the fact that she does like once a week that she's, that it's not uncommon to her tells me that at least at some point, some of the foods that you're eating are the type of food that are creating gas in you. So not the fasting, creating the gas with just the food themselves. And that could be either beneficial or not so beneficial. So if it's being created by quote, good gut bacteria, that gas can actually serve as something called postbiotics. So it actually can have a beneficial effect on the flip side.
If you have a microbiome or some bacteria that aren't so beneficial for you and they're creating problematic gas, that's, you know, slowing things down, creating digestive issues, inflammation, that's not good. So when you, if you're, if that's happening anyways for you, if you're putting all your food into it, like Barry was saying, a concentrated window. Now that's a lot of food to deal with a lot of more potential for, a lot of things are slowing down and completely makes sense that you would be experiencing this. So I love, I love all the suggestions Barry gave. The first one I would give, he mentioned FODMAPs. So I'm really passionate about FODMAPs. I, FODMAPs for a lot of people can be the thing causing digestive distress. And actually they've done a study, they've done a few studies on this. They've found that a lot of people who think they're actually reacting to gluten may be reacting to FODMAPs, which is far more extensive than, than gluten. It's it stands for fermentable oligosaccharide, disaccharide, monosaccharide and polyols, and these are just food substrates that yes, can feed good gut bacteria, and also they can easily create, encourage the formation of gas, digestive distress, all the things.
So I would try, I have recently found this incredible enzyme that's specifically made to break down FODMAPs. So it's called FODzyme. We love them. I love the company too. I've been talking with the company a lot and they're really awesome people. There's no capsules or anything like that. It's just a powder packet and you actually, you actually put it onto your food, it's tasteless, and then it directly breaks down the FODMAPs and the food. And it can be a game changer if you have digestive distress.
So I would definitely try that. It's called FODzyme. We have a code for 25% off, which is incredible. So for that, that's for your first order, go to FODzyme.com. That's F-O-D-Z-Y-M-E.com and use the code IF Podcast. You will get 25% off. I love FODzyme. So I would get that. I would start sprinkling that on your food. I think that will really help. And then I would also, I love all the other suggestions Barry was making.
Melanie Avalon
So maybe eating a little bit earlier so you're not eating all that food right before bed, you know, lengthening your window a little bit if you need. You can also try other digestive enzymes as well. You can try poutine HCL, which is a, that supports your stomach acid. That's going to help you break down protein, because especially if you're not breaking down the protein, that can kind of, kind of like a traffic jam because protein takes a lot more time and energy to digest and enzymes to digest. If you're not breaking down the protein, it can kind of make everything else kind of like get backed up. And now that fiber is fermenting, those FODMAPs are fermenting, you're creating gas, all the things. So I would, I would focus hardcore on digestive support. I would get those enzymes. You can ramp them up if they're not, if it's not working enough, but just one packet might actually do it for you. Those are really the main things.
Basically, I do wonder cause she was asking if other people have experienced this as well. I would be really curious. Oh, that, that is something that I know. I know that, Barry, I think you mentioned this too. A lot of people will have like an adjustment period when they first start fasting and they have more gas at the beginning, but then their body gets used to eating in a concentrated time window. You start producing more enzymes, your gut microbiome adjusts, but if it's not going away, which it seems like it's not, definitely try out the things we were talking about.
So Barry, do you struggle with gas or digestive issues? Do you get like GI issues much? I feel like you're, you have like a stomach of iron.
Barry Conrad
No, I don't, not really. Like I don't, like I rarely do. And this, and if I do, it's usually because I'm sick. So no, not really. No.
Melanie Avalon
That's so amazing. I think I used to be that way. Uh-huh. I mean, well, growing up, I could, I didn't, I don't have memories of having like digestive issues until I got them.
Barry Conrad
Why do you think that changed your-
Melanie Avalon
Well, I got I got food poisoning in 2014. And then that just started off and this happens to a lot of people. There's like a quote inciting incident where something happens, usually it's like food poisoning, some sort of like exposure, something happening is you get really you get really sick. And then you never quite.
Yeah, it's like a journey from there. So but I'm good now as long as I do my my enzymes, my fasting, I know the foods that work for me.
Barry Conrad
Yep. But Teresa, keep us posted. Like, and thank you so much for your question and good luck, but I hope it's not stinky in Seattle anymore.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I agree with you, Barry. We love all questions. All right. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?
Barry Conrad
A proverbial breaking of the fast moment is about to happen right now, so I'm going to send you the place and
Melanie Avalon
So Barry, what restaurant do you have for us today?
Barry Conrad
So, the restaurant that I have for us today is called Le Bannadon. Hopefully, I'm saying that properly.
It's based in NYC, another New York restaurant, and it's Eric Rippert's Seafood Sanctuary. So, I know that you love seafood, so do I, Mel, offering a refined menu of kudo, sashimi, style tuna, miso glazed black cod, world-class, by-the-glass pours of wine, an encyclopedic cellar of white burgundy, champagne gourish, sous-vise. The vibe is like muted gray walls, vaulted ceiling, and customer-read-inspired art. They create a serene under-the-sea ambiance, which I thought you might like, and this place has maintained a four-star rating from the New York Times for over two decades.
Melanie Avalon
What? Two decades? That's stressful.
Barry Conrad
to maintain. Yeah, that's a long time. Don't mess up.
Melanie Avalon
Amazing. And did you know how we talked about this before? I think we've talked about this before. Yes, we have. We might have even talked about it really recently. I didn't used to like fish.
Barry Conrad
I know, which is you actually have said that before, which is so surprising to me.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just thought about it because looking at this menu, like this would have been so scary to me growing up. Right now it looks amazing.
Barry Conrad
So it's really seafood heaven. And so Melanie, on that note, is there anything, I know that you're not gonna have one thing at least there in the beginning, but what would you like to start with from this situation?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so it looks like this is a prefix, right?
Barry Conrad
You can download the menu PDF if you want, click on that.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, it's a prefix, which normally I get hesitant, but there's a lot of options on this. So there's the, so we start with the almost raw course.
Barry Conrad
Let's start with almost raw, yeah.
Melanie Avalon
I think I think we're gonna have to get maybe we should get three for the table so that we can or Four for the table so that we can pick I think so too at least three. Let's get three
Barry Conrad
And Melanie, I don't know if you're the same as me, but with seafood as well, I could eat a lot more of it.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was actually gonna ask you about that when we were talking about just not getting hungry from, or sorry, not getting full from processed foods. And then last week when I was talking about preferring tougher steaks because they make me fuller, with seafood, it doesn't fill me up as much, even if it's the same amount of calories. Have you, have you noticed that?
Barry Conrad
I definitely have noticed and do notice that all the time it's so interesting how and why that is like why do our bodies you know why does it register differently even the same volume or even the same calories like why same grams and macronutrients.
Melanie Avalon
know what I think it is? I think it relates to my tough steak theory.
Because I've thought about this because with fish, you're never like, you know, because it's like a white meat normally, like a white fish, compare that to chicken or pork or some other land white meat. You don't really eat.
Barry Conrad
It's easier to eat, so in that case we're going to be here for quite a while, so you think we should do
Melanie Avalon
Wait, we're going to wait. You're saying we're going to need more. Wait, what do you think?
Barry Conrad
Yeah be at the restaurant for quite a while and have multiple multiple dishes of things.
Melanie Avalon
On the one hand, it feels like we would be here less because we eat it faster. But you're saying like we need more dishes.
Barry Conrad
to feel full satisfied, yeah. Exactly.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. So what are we going to do? Are we going to do are we going to do three orders?
Barry Conrad
I think we should do four. I think you should pick two and I should pick two. Okay.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder how often people do that probably not that much okay I love that okay I'll wait I won't say it yet um there's something I want to point out when we get to it okay so for the almost raw oh what's number two and number three
Barry Conrad
Oysters, yes. My favorite.
Melanie Avalon
So what two are you picking?
Barry Conrad
Well definitely the oysters so i'll do the oyster uni because that seems quite exotic and cool so i'll try that and also the looking down looking down the.
Melanie Avalon
Tuna. The oyster uni is a sea urchin oyster medley. Have you had sea urchin?
Barry Conrad
I actually have. I actually love Sijuan.
There's a place in Melbourne actually that I went to just before starting rehearsals for Destiny and I went with a friend and they specialize in oysters and sea motion. It's so good.
Melanie Avalon
They take all the prickles off, right?
Barry Conrad
To take all the pickles out, it's really, really easy to eat. It's almost like a dessert. Not that it's sweet, but it just melts in your mouth. It's delicious, Melanie.
It's the first time I've ever had it. And it was absolutely incredible. It was so good.
Melanie Avalon
I'm having flashback all the sea urchins on the on the beach. Well, with our little porcupine this.
Okay, so you're getting that and the tuna, you said. Cool. Do you want to read the tuna description?
Barry Conrad
The tuna is layers of thinly pounded yellowfin tuna, foie gras, toasted baguette, and chives.
Melanie Avalon
That's perfect because you know me now I love I love pounding things. I'm like so excited now to like pound all the things in the kitchen. I have so much fun. It's so fun.
I highly recommend everybody get a mallet pounder thing and start doing this.
Barry Conrad
Is your countertop sturdy? It's not breakable, right? Because you're pounding all that.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's not breakable, but it's funny because I do this when I have my meal very late at night and I'm like, are the people below me? I'm sorry.
Okay, I'm gonna get all of this is almost raw. I'm going to get... I think I'll try the Gambaroni Rosso, which is shrimp tartare and lemon saffron emulsion. That sounds good. And the... maybe the caviar.
Barry Conrad
YUM! That sounds great!
Melanie Avalon
Is it Ocetra caviar? Okay. Moving on to the...
Barry Conrad
Barely Touched. I like these titles. Almost raw, barely touched, lightly cooked. Love it.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love it. Love it. Love it. Barely touched. So sensuous. Okay.
What do you... Let me look. I see. Okay. I know. I want the trout, the warm smoked sea trout with verjus fine herbs emulsion. And I think lobster, steamed lobster, kumquat and charred cucumber, spiced shellfish, citrus broth. And with all of my choices, I'm going to get it, you know, plated separately, deconstructed things on the side and then you can have the side stuff.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I was going to do the lobster for that section, but I'm going to save it for the lightly cooked. So for this section, I'm going to go Black Cod Nobu San, which is miso glazed, black cod, summer roll, citrus, olive oil dressing.
And I'm also going to get the red shrimp, get my shrimp fix, which is seared shrimp, fennel, mousseline, sauce, boula, boula base. Again, listeners, we apologize if you can't pronounce these. We struggle. is the takeaway, but we really love your menu.
Melanie Avalon
We do love and we love the we love the countries that we are completely messing up pronouncing things correctly. Okay, now we are at I'd like good choices, by the way, now we are at lightly cooked.
And there's also this is what I was gonna say earlier, I like that they also have a pawn request and then you can add in, well, interestingly, so you can add in two non seafood items, three non seafood items and then also red snapper. Whoa, it's a whole red snapper and it requires 24 hours notice. Oh, it's for two. Oh, wow. You know me. I love whole fish. Okay, but so what are you gonna go with lightly cooked?
Barry Conrad
So for the lightly cooked, I'm going to definitely go for the lobster situation, which is poached lobster, glazed celesophis, white balsamic tarragon, bernaise, and then I think, well, not I think, I know I'm going to also get a sorted wreck of lamb as well.
Melanie Avalon
I was confirming that sole is low mercury fish. Have you had scape before? Isn't that kind of like a stingray or something?
Barry Conrad
I've never had that, actually.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. It looks like a stingray. Is it a stingray?
Barry Conrad
That's a Stingray?
Melanie Avalon
I'm looking it up skate versus stingray. They're similar in appearance. So they look different. They look the same Uh, oh Oh, do you want to know a fun fact tell me so Stingrays have long whip like tails with a venomous barb skates have a shorter thicker tail with thorny projections But they don't actually have a stinger skates are Ava par ava paris meaning they lay eggs whereas stingrays are viva paris meaning they give birth to live young What I just learned so much that I did not know but they do look very similar They they look like like if you google it escape it look I would not I would think they're the same thing They look the same to me.
Oh, wow. Yeah I will have the the dover soul Pan seared dover soul romanesco and cauliflower florets toasted almonds soy lime emulsion and Oh It's just i'm just hoping that i'm going to be full enough from all this fish. I think and then salmon barely cooked salmon root vegetables I can't say these words leek truffle something else
Barry Conrad
Mountaineer.
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay
Barry Conrad
Great. You're not going to go for the red snapper situation.
Melanie Avalon
Snapper is not super low and mercury is the problem. I'm always trying to spread awareness about mercury. And then is there a dessert mini?
Barry Conrad
There is a dessert menu, so we got to go to the go back to the previous page. There's dessert menu there.
Melanie Avalon
And by the way, this was really fun to have like a whole seafood only menu, minus the lamb that you got.
So you don't, so you don't feel like we're, we're like, you know, not speaking what we're talking about earlier with like going with the culture, do you feel like we should not get the lamb because
Barry Conrad
You know what, you're right. Maybe if you're just seeing as everything else has been seafood. Let's just negate the lamb, negate my South African urge to have just meat.
Melanie Avalon
Me too.
Barry Conrad
What are you going to swap it with? I'm going to swap it with the... We should get the skate. No, no, no. That looks creepy. I don't know if I want to eat that.
Melanie Avalon
No, no, wait, Mary, we can't not get the skate now. Wait, you realize we cannot not get the skate. We have to know. Don't you want to know?
Maybe it's like a sea urchin situation where it tastes, you know, I think it's going to taste like a sea urchin.
Barry Conrad
Okay, well, let's let's do it. Let's get this K and try it.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm excited.
Barry Conrad
And then dessert, is there anything catching your eye? There's quite a few delicious.
Melanie Avalon
Can I guess what you want? Sure. Okay. I think you want, let me look. Well, hmm, are you going to get the Peruvian dark chocolate?
Barry Conrad
Yep, that's so, I'm so predictable when it comes to desserts.
Melanie Avalon
which is the warm Peruvian chocolate tart with Tahitian vanilla ice cream.
Barry Conrad
Very plain, but not plain. Your dessert looks amazing. I'm just saying it very simple and just like what wins for me. I love that.
Melanie Avalon
I love that you talk to them like they're listening.
Barry Conrad
No, just in case, like, you know, what if they're like, who are these people tagging us in this thing, you know?
Melanie Avalon
They might be. And then I think, Oh, this is hard. I think.
Barry Conrad
There's at least a couple things that i would get as well.
Melanie Avalon
Are you feeling the, the citrus Madeline? No. Do you like banana?
Barry Conrad
I do. I do like... Yeah, I do actually. I do.
Melanie Avalon
You do. You like neutral do or you like do do?
Barry Conrad
No, I actually do. Like whenever I get waffles and stuff, I always get sliced banana and chocolate stuff. So I do like banana. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
You do. Okay, so are you going to get the banana toffee?
Barry Conrad
Yep, I'll get the banana and toffee.
Melanie Avalon
banana sticky toffee pudding with bourbon cream anglaise. And do you like, do you like, do you like peanuts? I gotta, I gotta know this so that I can really nail your dessert menu going forward.
Barry Conrad
I do like peanuts, but it's not never going to be my number one, but I do like peanut. I really do.
Like all sometimes I went through a phase of like eating peanut butter out of the jar. Like I love peanut butter and peanuts.
Melanie Avalon
Okay so what was that what you would have picked or what would you have picked.
Barry Conrad
I would have picked the banana toffee situation for sure. Yeah, good job.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you. I'm just looking because I realize there's a chef's tasting menu that's a little bit different.
Okay. For dessert, I'm going to get... Really, it's going to depend on what I like the most thus far and I will get a repeat of that. So it might be maybe some more caviar. Oh, I know what I want. Disregard what I just said. I know what I want because I wanted it from the Bailey touched menu, but I'd already filled up the thing. I want the salmon caviar for dessert.
Barry Conrad
Salmon caviar, there you go. That's pretty cool. I want to go here.
Melanie Avalon
Are you gonna go?
Barry Conrad
You know what I'm all the New York ones are definitely I have to check out because otherwise I wouldn't pick them So definitely it looks pretty good
Melanie Avalon
good. Are you making a list?
Barry Conrad
Yep, I am.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, amazing. Have you been to one yet that you've talked about since we've recorded? Because I want you to like tell your experience because that will be wild.
Barry Conrad
Okay, I definitely will go to Gimlet, which is in Melbourne, which I'm still in Melbourne right now, and I'll definitely report back here because that was one of ours from the past.
Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, so exciting. Okay, awesome. Awesome, well great find. I am like really hungry now.
This was amazing. Listeners, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate you so much. These show notes for today's show will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 444. That will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. You can submit your own questions by emailing questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can follow us on Instagram. We are ifpodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. I think that's all the things. Anything from you Barry before we go?
Barry Conrad
No, thank you so much all of you guys for listening and we can't wait to be with you next time.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I will talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
I'll see you next week, bye.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.
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