Welcome to Episode 457: Special Anniversary Part 2 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
 
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 457 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX and author of What, Win, Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 457 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, welcome to our special part two anniversary celebration episode.

Barry Conrad
Thank you for the warm welcome, Mel. I'm so excited.

Our second part of our anniversary is celebrating our anniversary one year, and we're happy to be here with you listeners as well. Thank you for tuning in to party with us and celebrate.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just having so much fun. It was so much fun last week doing the questions and talking about what goes into the show and some of our favorite memories. So I'm really excited to continue it today.

Same. Before we jump into questions, what is new in your world?

Barry Conrad
What is new in my world? This is, I know this is way in the past, but I am going to be for the very first time making cornbread.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I literally had no idea what you were about to say, like my mind went like 20 different directions. So what is he going to say?

I was like, he's going to make a movie, make a baby, like what are you making?

Barry Conrad
that'll be coming soon. Yeah, I'm making cornbread for the first time. I know this is maybe not that exciting listeners, but I'm having my first Thanksgiving in two days and I'm getting right into the spurts. I'm doing greens and cornbread. That's what I'm bringing to the sort of like friends giving with a whole bunch of people. So I'm super stoked about it.

I've test driven the cornbread once before, but I'm making it for people for the first time. So wish me luck. I think the first time was really great. Well, I think you'd really approve even though you may maybe not eat it, but you'll look at my reaction to eating it and seeing that I enjoyed it. So yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So did you know, I haven't thought about this before, but I think cornbread is up there for one of my most, probably like top five nostalgic foods. Really? Yeah. And it's not because I particularly loved cornbread, which by the way, is like a very Southern thing.

So they don't have cornbread in Australia.

Barry Conrad
No way. It's nothing. And this is like a niche, you know, pop up or something, but it's not definitely not Australian.

Melanie Avalon
So my aunt Judy, shout out to Judy, she's an incredible chef and she used to have a restaurant in Athens, Georgia. And we used to always go growing up.

And she had Walter's cornbread. So Walter is the name of my grandfather. And it was like a spicy jalapeno, jalapeno. That's a question. Do you say jalapeno or jalapeno? What do you say?

Barry Conrad
Helipino. Helipino. It's got to be helipino. You say helipino.

Melanie Avalon
Some people say jalapeno, which I find, I don't know if I don't like that, but I also don't like jalapenos very much. But there were these spicy cornbreads and I think she even won awards for them. So it's very nostalgic for me because it reminds me of when I was eating that, it's like when I was at the restaurant with the family and my grandfather loved it. So yeah, I'm team cornbread, yay, that you are making it.

I've never made it. I wouldn't know where to start.

Barry Conrad
Does your mom make it for Thanksgiving or is that not really a thing?

Melanie Avalon
No, it was really just like that, my aunt and so I guess we would always have it at that Thanksgiving at that side of the family. But no, it's not like something my mom would make, I don't think.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm really, really excited because it's delicious and I'm not going to lie, I treated myself on my treat day by smashing a whole lot of it, aka half of the whole thing, but it was really, really good.

Melanie Avalon
I want pictures. Did you post pictures yet on Instagram?

Barry Conrad
I haven't posted yet. I did take a photo of the first one, but it wasn't really like a, it wasn't like a photo for the gram.

So I had like a shadow on it. Maybe I'll do one on, not maybe, I will do one and I'll have to send it to you.

Melanie Avalon
the Gram. This is another reason we'll be talking more about our relationship and such, but I think a reason, not the reason we get along so well, but a reason we will get along so well in real life is I feel like we perfectly understand each other's relationship to Instagram.

Barry Conrad
Do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you know, like I feel like we would have a really nice balance of like making sure we capture the moments, but also like not being in our phones the whole time, you know, like, I feel like, I feel like it'll go well.

Barry Conrad
I actually agree because this is something that it's a thing like and let me zoom out and say I'm sure that you've been in scenarios malware. Some people are just sitting there the whole time on their phone and not even engage and then equally. Some people stick was like, don't even look at you for once. Like, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And so when I'm in a social situation, I am not. The only reason I'm going to get on my phone is to take the Instagram footage or if we are looking up something that we need to look up. But I don't get on my phone otherwise.

I mean, I don't think I do. I really try not to. But it's like, I really do enjoy taking the boomerangs of the drinks and taking pictures together. I really enjoy that. And some people, I feel like I'm in a lot. Oftentimes, I'm in group situations where I feel bad because I'm like, they don't want to be doing this right now. So then I feel like, you know, not good.

Barry Conrad
You can feel it in the air to some people aren't and also fair enough some people on social media people or photo people but it's just for a moment and it's it's a memory that you can capture for the future you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. The worst is I feel so bad.

I feel like this happens a lot. I'll be with people who are being very accommodating. So they'll take the pictures. They don't complain or anything, but then they'll make comments like, just one or something like that. And then it's like, oh man, I got to get it all in one. And then I feel guilty because I know they don't want to be taking pictures. So I always do with those people, I always do one and then one for safety, one for safety. Or 10 for safety, not really.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. I'd like to know, I'd like to see you in, in your element, because I know that you, you always, I want to, cause you always do your, what is obligatory?

Melanie Avalon
obligatory bathroom selfie.

Barry Conrad
And the one that you do before you leave home and stuff right.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so there's always, so I think there's probably four, there's five, six, six, depending on what it is, pictures that must happen every outing.

Barry Conrad
So this is melanie's social media playbook okay go what are the money.

Melanie Avalon
Do you think you can guess them?

Barry Conrad
Okay, I'll try. Okay, the mirror one in your apartment before you leave.

Melanie Avalon
Like the walking? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. The next one will be a, well, definitely, maybe not an order, but the boomerang of the drinks, a selfie with faces of the people that you're with. Yes. A bathroom selfie.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, you got four.

Barry Conrad
And when you get a home...

Melanie Avalon
No opposite. There's one more before I leave. It's the first one. I actually always post and there's something on on it

Barry Conrad
like a patch on your arm or like a product or something like that.

Melanie Avalon
No, I do take product pictures while getting ready. There's the first one I always post though is the, like, where am I going?

Barry Conrad
Yes, of course. Where am I going?

Melanie Avalon
So like not in the mirror, but like a selfie and then like wear two friends and then I put a hint.

Barry Conrad
And then definitely the recovery photo as well.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you're right. So that's the next day. So that's yeah, that's like a bonus one nicely done. I forgot about that.

The only one you left out was if it's a like if it's a show, I have to obviously get a picture of like curtain call.

Barry Conrad
Yes, or even like walking down the aisle, remember that thing that you do?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if there's an aisle, so those are two, if it's a show, there's two additional that must happen.

One is the actual curtain call, which is the only time you can actually, unless it's like, start to slay or something, when you can actually like take a picture of the performers and then walking down the aisle, you know.

Barry Conrad
I feel like you have your playbook down pat.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I didn't realize I had this playbook, but yeah. Do you have a playbook? I don't know. You gotta get one. You gotta up your game.

Barry Conrad
Do you think I have a playbook? I don't know. I think my social media has evolved over time, but I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
So I would say you don't really, you know, I feel like it's like it's like a different blend. Like you will take the pictures of like, well, I feel like whenever you're when you have like a suit or something that you're wearing for a brand, you know, the pictures of that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, a couple of ones.

Melanie Avalon
But like do you so for example like comparing to my playbook do you have to make sure that you get a picture of the people that you're with if they want to be in the picture.

Barry Conrad
I try to feel at the vibe if the people at the like the event, if the event is like selfie friendly, I'll do that. And then if the people, if it feels like a natural moment, I'll do it. I won't just like pull it up just because, you know, it has to have good lighting and a good, like, you know, good background situation. Like what's happening behind me? Is there a vibe? Is it just like a wall? What's happening?

Melanie Avalon
Wait, Barry, do you have the beauty plus app? No, this is going to change your life.

Well, I mean, you always look great in the pictures, but this is going to change. I changed my, it changed my life. What is it? It's beauty plus it's an app and it basically, the way I describe it is because people are like, Oh, it's filters. No, it, it captures your true spirit in the most better way. So, but like you, it uses, like you pull up the app and then you take pictures in the app, like your selfies, and it will a just the original like non-filtered version, it makes you look better. And then you can like go in and edit the photos with, they have all these edits you can do.

Barry Conrad
You got to show me like an example of it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you have an iPhone. So just get the beauty plus app. I promise you, it's one of the few apps I subscribe to yearly.

Oh, that would be a fun question. Like, like what like what apps are worth, you know, like forking over money and like committing to and it is like, I mean, it might be number one for me there. Honestly.

Barry Conrad
That's a big deal. I didn't, had no idea that this was a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, my friend Katie, shout out to Katie, she introduced me to it a few like a year ago, two years ago maybe and never looked back. Now I turn everybody else on to it as well.

Barry Conrad
Okay. Now I'm going to have to look this up after the show and just see, is it's not going to be one of those apps that like distorts your, you know, like those face me apps.

You know, the one where it puts it like a different face, like it's all like AI.

Melanie Avalon
They probably have those options, but the main thing I use it for is just make, so every picture you see on my profile that was taken, if it's of me, was taken with Beauty Plus.

Barry Conrad
Wow. Okay, I need to check it out to see what I look like taking it.

Melanie Avalon
It's great. Then you find the filters that you like the most.

I will say just quickly, because I don't think I've thought about this before, but I think so if I'm going on a date with somebody I haven't met or somebody new, one of the moments I'm most nervous about is how are they going to be about pictures? If I had this moment where I'm like, oh, they're okay, it's like no big deal, it's just like, oh, sigh of relief. I'm not obnoxious or annoying, I promise. I just like to get the picture.

Barry Conrad
Like how, is it something that preoccupies you, like if you're going on a date, how soon into the night are you thinking the picture, got to get the picture, got to get the picture before my appearance changes or like, cause you know, you said like a lot of things happen Barry, from the car to the-

Melanie Avalon
Oh yes, Barry does not understand how I have to get there early so I can go to the bathroom so I can, a lot happens between the car and getting there, a lot.

Barry Conrad
How? It's nothing's you sitting down.

Melanie Avalon
walking, you just got to have your like moment in the bathroom and then being your element in my dream world. But I can't do this on a date because then okay, here's the here's the irony.

Oh my goodness, Barry, I'm having like an in real time epiphany. The irony here is that in my dream world, say I'm going on a date with a man I haven't met, I would want to get a picture really soon. So then like, I'm done, I have my picture, I don't have to worry about it. But if I do that, like ask for a picture right at the beginning, then I seem like the crazy chick that like needs to be on Instagram all the time. But it's like, no, actually, it's so I can like be done and like not take pictures. But that's not that's not how I manifest. Typically, I do it like later in the evening.

Barry Conrad
How would you just organically bring that up early in the night? What would you say if you had to or what have you said early in the evening?

Melanie Avalon
Well, usually I test it with the drinks, like the boomerang of the drinks. Can we do a boomerang of the drinks? And you kind of like can gauge their, their reaction. And if it's like, no big deal, super chill, it's like, okay, I can probably ask for the selfie like earlier than later, but if I'm like hesitant, then I, well, I'll just wait till the end. Usually get some wine in me.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny, but you're thinking about it the whole time, right?

Melanie Avalon
I'm thinking if I don't have the, I'm not thinking about it like actively, but if I don't have the picture yet, I like, you know, it's like the thing on the back burner, like the little, like little fly, like the little like thing on your shoulder. Like I just can we, you know, it's like, it's just there and the, it's like the buzzing in the background.

Barry Conrad
And is there a specific type, like does someone have to take it off you or do you have to do this, hold the phone yourself?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not of us. Oh, oh, like a selfie though? Oh, they can hold it if it's a selfie. Yeah. But I can't even tell you how many times people walk up and like offer to take pictures. And I'm like, no, I'm good. Like I say it, I say it nicer. But yeah.

Barry Conrad
Boy!

Melanie Avalon
It's nice to control what you can see.

Barry Conrad
You don't like someone just holding and just taking a photo of you guys?

Melanie Avalon
No, I'll do it, but yeah.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. So many things to look forward to when we finally meet, just to see what you like. There's the phone, a lot happening from the car.

Melanie Avalon
I sound so annoying from that whole monologue. I'm not like in my phone the whole time, I promise. I like to be in the moment. I just like to capture it and remember it as well.

Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. I get that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, this is why this is what brought this up. I feel like you and I will get along fine with the pictures

Barry Conrad
Yeah, as long as you're not taking like calls at the table. Sorry, taking another call. Like, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Oh, no. No, like I said, like, I'm not going to text other people. I'm not. Yeah, maybe in the bathroom.

Barry Conrad
We should put up a poll and it's not fast and related but if listeners like what what do you think about phones at the table do you have no friends at the table that what's the situation like you know think of a couple questions.

Melanie Avalon
Like, at the dinner table, I say no phones. Same. Unless, like I said, you need to look up something. But even then, most things can be looked up later.

Barry Conrad
I agree. It's nice to give people your attention at the table, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Anything else or should we jump into the testing stuff?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump on in.

Melanie Avalon
So, like I said, listeners, if you missed last week's episode, go check it out because we did five super fun questions about the show, how we met, one of our, you know, most memorable episodes, et cetera, and we have five more today.

So first question, Barry, what is one belief about fasting you used to hold that you no longer believe after doing the show together?

Barry Conrad
Wow. Well, it's sort of similar to another answer that I gave last episode, but it's true. It's not so much that I stopped believing something you used to. It's more, I think, doing the show with you, Mel. It's really massively expanded more my understanding of what fasting actually does for the body. You know, it's gone way beyond the initial situation I had in my head when I first started. I came into it specifically for mental clarity and obviously energy and physical results for sure, and that simple protocol. But through doing the show, I love the show, is I've realized IF just does way more under the surface than I ever, ever, ever appreciated or anticipated. So I'm blown away just how many layers there are to what we do and inflammation, gut risk, brain health, mood regulation, cravings, longevity, body composition, human growth hormone, autophagy. And as the shows went on from when I started till now, especially initially, but always, I keep going, wow, that too, fasting does that too. It helps with that too. And that is really genuinely enlightening every week.

So it's not necessarily something I stopped believing in or I don't think any more, but there's more that I believe in, more than I realize. It's not just a way of eating or a diet. It's such a lifestyle, lifelong friendly tool. You know, it's something that doesn't go out of fashion. And that's what I love. It's reliable. And so many things, like I'm getting so much more compliments now on my skin, my muscle. I'm noticing so much more stability in my cravings, actually my moods. And yeah, just brain fog. There's so many things that elicit endless. So again, to not to be redundant, there's not one thing that I stopped believing, but it's more that I've, there's more things that I've started believing from doing the show. What about you, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
I love it. And actually to that point, one thing I really love about how we do the show together with the format, because we came up with the idea of alternating and like one of us doing a study each week. And it's really, it's like really fun.

I love finding the studies. So I love, I think we've talked about this before, like how we go about finding the studies that we pick, but mine is usually, I usually come up with an idea that I want to learn more about and I hope that there's like a fasting study about it and I try to find a study about it. But so I love like finding a study. I love prepping it. And then I love the weeks that you bring the study because I just have no idea what it's going to be. And so it's really fun. It's like a really fun surprise each week. And I thought about it because you were talking about all the benefits and I've appreciated a lot of the studies that you've brought have been about specific benefits of fasting because I was thinking about the one like about like the lungs. I think there was one about like, was it about lung inflammation or something about, do you remember which one it was?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there's like lung support, also sperm motility, and yeah, there's so many things, so many benefits, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I remember when you brought the sperm woman, I was like, oh, this is so great to actually have, I mean, like a male co-host on the show. So yes, but so one for me that, so a belief that I used to hold that I no longer believe. It's not so much a belief that I used to hold completely that I lost, but it's more a greater appreciation of one of the common fasting fears, which is that you can't get enough protein in your eating window. And it's nice because like, I know I can, but, you know, Cynthia used to call me like the mythical unicorn and like, you know, I felt kind of really unique in that aspect, but it's nice because you also, you know, it's on a protein like me. So it's nice to see somebody else doing it in real time.

And I think the more I've like continued to do the high protein, the more I've realized how doable it is. And I think something that's important for people to keep in mind is like, if you're trying to get enough protein leading with protein, so not like filling up first on like fat or carbs, like you can, if you make protein the center and then build around that, I think it's easier to eat more protein. I think digestive enzymes for protein are so, so helpful for getting enough protein. And I'm so excited because I, you know, just launched as of this recording, my Avalon X digest, which that will, if you want to get, if you want to get enough protein in your eating window, that will really help you break it down, help you assimilate more protein. So definitely check that out. You can use the code I have podcasts for 10% off at Avalon X.us. But the other thing also related to protein, and I think I talked about this in one of the questions last week, but it's nice having a male co-host and having you because I've been able to speak about the experience as a female and eating protein, but I can't speak about like being a male eating protein and maintaining muscle and all of that. So it's been really nice to see you, you know, living the life, eating the protein in a one meal a day pattern and maintaining and building that muscle. So that's been, I guess my concerns about protein have been mostly alleviated now.

Barry Conrad
That's so good. And that's really kind of you to say, you know, one of the things that's so unique about us doing the show together, and I get this feedback from a lot of people that I put onto the podcast is I love the dynamic between the male and the female, you know, that just different perspectives naturally. Like you can't, you can't script that you can't manufacture that just innately. We're going to have different points of view.

Physiologically, we are different. So it's going to just be different to share how fasting affects us affects our digestion, how we experience muscle growth, all of the things, weight loss. And yeah, so that that's been super exciting. And also we keep discovering new studies. Well, new science keeps evolving and coming to the surface. That protein really is really is king. It really is amazing for us. And there's so there's been so much fear around that. And so yeah, just take what you said. I just, I love that protein is it's such a big part of both of our protocols and that we prioritize it and advocates for living advocates for it, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
It's really interesting, too, that the past three, including you, co-hosts, have all been very team-high protein. So, Cynthia, very high protein, or supportive of eating higher protein, same with Vanessa and you.

But the thing that I already said it, but to say it again, me, Vanessa, Cynthia, are all women. So, it's been really nice to see the male eating the protein in one meal a day, and that it's doable.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and hopefully it's not. It's more than doable and hope.

What I don't like is that when females are, you know, I wouldn't say demonized, but maybe like, you know, maybe put down for eating too much or, you know, eating proteins, if that's not like a feminine thing to do, it's like, it's important. It doesn't matter what gender you are, what you identify as protein, we all need it. You know, so it's just, it's funny. Do you get that?

Melanie Avalon
It doesn't actually bother me personally as me. I think it is a thing for other people. But for me, it's kind of makes me proud, you know? Because I'm like, yeah, I eat a lot of protein. Take that.

But I do think that is an issue in general with just the stereotypes and everything, the stigmas. OK, shall we do our next question?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So the next question is, what do you think is the biggest misconception listeners still have about fasting? What do you reckon, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
So this is funny because I realized I was going to do the protein for this one, but it actually answers it. So everything I just said for the last question also applies to this question, so the protein stuff. So I'm going to do two answers because I want to say what I was going to say for the prior one as well, which I think a misconception I've had is that if you're doing a one-meal-a-day situation, that it would be easier to always do it at the same time. So for me, always having the dinner eating one meal a day, it's been really nice getting to know you.

And you talked about this last episode about the flexibility that you've begun to experience with when you break your fast and how you typically do fast 20 hours, but it doesn't have to be at any certain set time. It's been really nice and interesting to see how you do the fasting. And it's definitely changed some misconceptions I have about how it would be easier to do it the same time every day because you'll change it around a bit. So that's been really cool. And then other biggest misconceptions? OK, so I think now this is just a few different ones I'm thinking of. So I think, and we talked about this last time, but I think there is a, well, A, I think people think that you really need to eat earlier in the day, like necessarily for the optimal health. And we see that that's not necessarily always the case, that some people can eat later and it works. I think there's still a big concern about for women, that fasting is bad for women. And here's one that's interesting. There's definitely a lot of concerns about fasting in women. And especially a lot of people will think that when you're in menopause, the older you get, that fasting is even more problematic. When honestly, it seems like that's where some of the greatest benefits come, with regulating hormones. And then when you're not cycling anymore, there isn't that added layer of concern about your cycle or anything like that. So I think misconceptions about women and fasting. So protein, women and fasting, and eating timing. How about you?

Barry Conrad
It's so hard to answer these questions because there's so many answers, but I would say two big ones still stand up for me. I would say one being that fasting is still just about, especially maybe new listeners or new people to intermittent fasting or flirting with your idea of intermittent fasting, that it's just starving, that it's just restriction, and it's extreme or something you do because you're unhappy with your body or trying to punish your body for not looking or performing a certain way. And I get that we live in a world that's constantly pushing that message of every ad, every headline. It can sometimes seem to come from this place of guilt or body fear or body shame. I can understand that some people may assume that, but it's really not. If that's a mindset that people start with, fasting is always going to feel like a battle or deprivation and something that you have to endure rather than realize it's something that's going to support our lives.

I think what a lot of people, once they stick with it and they learn, is that fasting is not a style. It's actually something we choose with a lot of awareness and intention. It actually teaches us so much about how a body works instead of fighting it. Once people realize that, I think the whole experience starts to shift. I think the second misconception that really frustrates me is the whole calories in, calories out thing. It's not that simple. I think this might frustrate me the most because it reduces this awesome adaptive process down to basic math because it's not just that. Fasting works on an emotional level, a metabolic level, hormonal level, psychological level. It's not just about calories. It's so much more peace of mind. Stress corresponds to sleep cycles, autophagy, cravings, digestion, cellular repair. I think the emotional stability that shows up when our blood sugar stops swinging, there's so many things. Then there's also the societal piece that I was talking about. We live in this culture that teaches us to eat every two hours or three meals a day or just snack constantly, never feel hunger, always fuel our bodies all day. When you fast, everyone suddenly can have an opinion about that. There's a lot of it's not actually that impossible. It's actually not what a lot of people make it out to be, so it's just a lot of noise. Lots of misconceptions out there.

Melanie Avalon
Those were really great, and the first one you were talking about, if listeners would like to hear more about that, it reminds me of the study we talked about, I think maybe two or three weeks ago, and it was the one about how your pre-existing beliefs about meal timing. So like, do you need to be eating 24-7, or do you need to be having breakfast? Like that affected whether or not people sustained fasting or not, and it changed their habits. So people who had these fears, they would eat food because they thought it was making them full rather than for the enjoyment, and then they were less likely to sustain fasting. So it just really speaks to what you're saying about how pervasive and how intense of an effect those thoughts have.

The thing about the calories in, calories out that really distresses me a little bit is it's so binary. People think, oh, it's all calories in, calories out, or calories don't matter, and it's all about insulin or hormones or whatever. And I'm like, what I think, and I just wish people could understand this subtle nuance, is in the end, yes, it is calories because it is, if you gain weight, but it's not calories in, calories out, it's if you gained weight, you stored more calories than you burned, like period. If you lose weight, you burn more calories than you took in, period. But it's like the math problem of that is not calories in, calories out. People are doing the wrong math problem. The math problem is so much more complicated than that. It's kind of like people think that it's like addition that you learn in kindergarten and subtraction when really it's like the type of math you do, I don't know, where you have to do the whole proof, and it's like pages and pages of math and all these things. That's what it's like because there's all these different factors affecting things about whether or not the calories that you take into your body physically, whether or not they actually become fat. So hormones, insulin, the gut microbiome, your body's just ability to metabolically change it to fat. Does the body decide, quote, decide? Some people, their body decides for whatever reason, like when you have excess calories to burn it off as heat, whereas other people store it. So yes, I think the math, we are doing the wrong math problem is my thoughts.

Barry Conrad
I wish this was screened on primetime TV. I want this to be just in school, learning about this because it's so useful. Help support and enlighten people's perspective and have a more healthy relationship with food in general, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
It's so true. Yes. So you just you literally cannot do that simple math problem. You don't have all the information you need to get the answer.

Barry Conrad
If we did, everyone would just be the size of whatever, like whatever they wanted. It's not that simple.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That was fun.

Okay. Next one. Okay. If you could bring any dream guest on the show next year, who would it be and why? I'm excited to hear what yours is. Oh, man. I don't think I can, I don't think I could even guess. Can I guess?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you can guess.

Melanie Avalon
Do I know this person? Oh, can we play the guessing game, both of us? Do I know this person? Like, do I know of this person?

Barry Conrad
Yes, you do.

Melanie Avalon
Do I know them personally? No. Well, obviously not. Is it a male? Mm-hmm. Is it somebody in the nutrition world?

Barry Conrad
Not per se, but no.

Melanie Avalon
Is it somebody in the fitness world?

Barry Conrad
has good nutrition.

Melanie Avalon
Is it somebody in the entertainment world? Yes. Okay, so it's somebody in the entertainment world and would they speak to like nutrition and things like that? Yep.

So is it an actor? Yes. Is it Hugh Jackman? Yes.

You know what Barry, I knew it like three questions ago but I was just making sure. What do you mean? Like I kind of milked it but I knew who it was.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, you just kind of had a hunch.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, once you said that it was somebody, I just sensed pretty quickly that it was somebody in the entertainment industry who has a really good physique, who you look up to, and yeah. Didn't you work with him in some capacity?

Barry Conrad
I didn't work with him some capacity, but I did, well, by working, I did fly, well, I was lowered down onto a stage using his harness, his harness from.

Melanie Avalon
using his harness.

Barry Conrad
There we go, that's something and I met his then wife, but that's it, but the reason why I chose Hugh Jackman, everyone is because Mel, you know this long before I came on the podcast, he was someone whose approach to health and discipline and performance really helped shape my interest in it and he's one of my favorite actors, he's an X-Men which I'm obsessed with, Marvel, and he did intermittent fasting.

Melanie Avalon
He did fasting.

Barry Conrad
It is intermittent fasting cuz I was trying to level up my fasting game my fitness game and when I read in this magazine that he was doing intermittent fastens of what is that. What is that thing and he was literally the person the first person that I read or saw who did it and that's what actually made me want to try and that's when.

After that I had to find all the information about fasting which then lead to finding this podcast is not crazy.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. We should manifest this.

Barry Conrad
That's what it was. So I'd love to ask him, how did he stumble on sentimental fasting? Why? What attracted him to him to it?

Because everyone, if you look at his physique from the Wolverine movies, he's jacked. He's not skinny or like scrawny, I should say is like the picture of health and muscle and like huge sorts. Like I'd love to talk and ask him about what he ate, you know, what he prioritized, macronutrient wise, what his protocol was from the beginning of the filming period to the end. If he still does it now, you know, like how he manages that when he travels, all the questions we like to know, I'd love to ask him that and just geek out.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. That is such a good answer. Yes, that's like the perfect answer.

Barry Conrad
What about you? I don't think I'm not going to guess yours, am I?

Melanie Avalon
probably not. I mean, it's probably the person that I have not had on any of my shows that I talk about the most as like a guidance person in the health and wellness space.

Barry Conrad
Okay, is it a male or female?

Melanie Avalon
That's not a yes, no question. It's a male. Fairy can't play the yes, no game. Is it a male? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Is it, is the male, like a biohacking sort of, you know, king, I should say, pioneer.

Melanie Avalon
If he was called that, people might call him that. If he did, he would hate that. He very much dislikes the biohacking term. He's not a fan.

Barry Conrad
Would it be Mark Sisson?

Melanie Avalon
You know, I just met him in person and I've had him. I've had him. He's been on the show. He's been on the show and he's been on my other show.

Barry Conrad
Actually, hold on, I think I know what it is.

Melanie Avalon
You might not know his name. I mean, I think you know his name, but I don't know if you would like come up with, like, I don't think it's like somebody in your, like, that you listened to. So you probably would, you'd be like, Oh yeah, you talk, you do talk about him, but I don't know if you would be able to pull his name out of a hat. If that makes sense.

So that would be my second option.

Barry Conrad
You got to tell me, I'm out of strikes.

Melanie Avalon
Peter Atea.

Barry Conrad
I know who that is. I know who Peter is. Damn, I should have guessed that. I know who that is. I've seen him on Thomas DeLauer's content a lot as well.

Melanie Avalon
I'm obsessed with his podcast. I listen to every episode.

I think I told you one of the best days of my life was the day I got a personal rejection email from him. Really? Mm-hmm. because it wasn't just like the... Did I tell you this?

Barry Conrad
Sounds vaguely familiar, but refresh my memory.

Melanie Avalon
I probably, I know I've told it before, but so at the expense of being repetitive, he had this book coming out and I was trying everything I could to get him on the show and I have, we have, so we have a lot of mutual friends. So I got them to text him and same with Huberman, but I finally, I heard back. So rather than getting like the, the, uh, template rejection email from his team. I got like a rejection email from him.

It was definitely him because he was literally like, I really hate going on podcasts, just FYI, like he was like, he was like, I'll check, but I like, don't like going on podcasts. And it was like Peter. I was like, Oh my gosh. Yes. I mean, no, but yes. And I remember I had a good friend at the time who knows him really well. And I was like, is this Peter? And he was like, yeah, that's Peter for sure.

Barry Conrad
Sure. Would you ever try and get him again? Oh, for sure.

Melanie Avalon
And it's in my long-term game plan. I think what's going to happen, I just have to meet him at a party. I feel like that's the only way this is going to happen.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I've read a few different things or heard a few different sound bites of him and his approach to fasting because his opinions changed on intermittent fasting, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. He definitely went from like, so he used to fast a lot and this is, this is something I will talk to him about at a cocktail party or on the podcast, probably at a cocktail party. I think because what he was doing a lot for fasting in the past was he was doing, I don't know if it was quarterly or monthly. It was a lot, but it was like four day or five day fasts and he lost a lot of muscle from it. I think he took his experience of that and let it filter into his thoughts on fasting in general because he was pretty down on fasting for quite a while.

I feel like he's come around now, but I do think, I do think he had a bias from his experience of doing too many long fasts that maybe he shouldn't have been doing. He talks a lot about like maintaining muscle on fasting and I'm like, there's a big difference between intermittent fasting and like what he was doing, which was, you know, multiple multi-day fast.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's not the same. I think a lot of people can lump that. It's not the same thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So intermittent fasting. But he does say, one thing I do like, just one last thing.

One thing I like that he does say is he says to lose weight, you basically, there's like three options and they're all about cutting something out or restriction. I don't know what word he uses, but it's like you either restrict your time, so you do fasting. You restrict your type of food, your macros. So you do like low carb, low fat, or you restrict your amount of food, your calories. He's like, those are like basically the three ways.

Barry Conrad
What do you think about that?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I pretty much agree, at least on the input side of things. So if we're not talking about like exercising and like burning off with physical activity, I mean those I think would be the three, the three things I don't know what else I don't know what other option there would be either like the amount of food, the type of food or when you eat the food.

Barry Conrad
I agree. Yeah, yeah, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
So yeah, maybe we can Oh, wait, he's like, he's like, Barry, one of his best friends is Hugh Jackman. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like buddies.

I'm going to send you. He said Hugh Jackman on the show a few times. So you would really like that those episodes, I think

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. I had no idea. Well, I need to listen to that thing because maybe that'll answer some of the questions that I had before you could be a guest.

Melanie Avalon
Man, now we have to really manifest this.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, anything's possible, seriously.

Melanie Avalon
I agree.

Barry Conrad
And one last thing on that, you know, do you ever think of when we talk about guests, when you think about guests, do you ever imagine sometimes having like a round table, like at a cocktail party and you're just eating and just drinking and just talking about all the stuff, all these leaders and all these big hitters in the world, just to see what their real opinions are? It'd be so interesting.

Melanie Avalon
with those people or talking about those people.

Barry Conrad
No, with those people.

Melanie Avalon
And it's kind of weird. I mean, it's not exactly the same thing, but it's weird that I've gotten to the place now where I go to conferences and stuff, and I'll be at dinners or I'll be at parties where it is a lot of these people. And that's just, it's really mind blowing to me that that could manifest. But yeah, that would be amazing to have drinks and get people's real opinions on stuff.

Somebody told me a story the other day. They said that they met Rhonda Patrick and, it might have been Peter, it was like Rhonda Patrick and one other person. And he said it was pretty mind blowing or funny because they were literally talking, like what they were talking about was so like, basically just a deep dive into the stuff. Like it was like really legit, like really intense. So I think they talk offline, similar to the way they talk on the podcast, or they have those conversations. Kind of like I think you and I do and would.

Wait, if you could have like, okay, so like pick a dream, like a dinner party and you can have... Ah, that's too hard. I know. Also, I realized my answer should have been Taylor Swift, but...

Barry Conrad
Maybe she, I mean, who knows, maybe she is into some sort of health thing, nutrition.

Melanie Avalon
I keep praying like she's going to decide to start doing intermittent fasting and like get obsessed. And then she's going to be like, well, let me find a podcast about this.

And then she'll be like the intermittent fasting podcast. Oh, I'll listen to that.

Barry Conrad
She might do it. Who knows? There's a lot of people that probably do do it without us knowing, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, probably. Yeah, so if you could have five people, is this okay, let's do five people any any like a dinner party, anything goes just a dinner party.

And we're both there. So we don't count. But like five other five guests.

Barry Conrad
Oh man, that's really tough. Uh, does it have, does it have to include Hugh Jackman as well?

Melanie Avalon
I think it would, yeah, because I mean, it doesn't have to. No, it doesn't have to, but.

Barry Conrad
Man, this is tough. This is really hard.

Okay, let me just think of the top of my head and a combination of people in the biohacking world. Different, like, areas. Okay, great. So, Huberman, I think he'd be interesting. Hugh Jackman, Cynthia Riva.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, which you met her right at the party.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, she was really cool and who else? Denzel Washington? These are all just guys and maybe Jennifer Aniston.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, Jennifer Aniston, did you have a crush on her growing up, like in Friends?

Barry Conrad
A huge crash, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny about her? Like she's such a crushable, like I think she's such a crushable female for like men always have crushes on her.

I think she's beautiful but there's something about her personality I think that makes people fall in love with her a lot.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I don't know, she is crushable. People just have that quality, right? They're just like...

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, she's got the crushable quality. Did we just coin that? I think we did. You know, who else is crushable? I was talking about this with a friend actually from frozen who does the voice of Ana.

Barry Conrad
Oh, yeah, Chris and Bill.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, just like very crushable like very cute fun quirky good vibe. Yeah

Barry Conrad
You know what, after I said this, there's so many more people that I'd want. That was just the first five people I thought of straight away, but there's so many people.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so it doesn't have to be the final list listeners, don't hold Barry to that when we have our party and it's different people. Mine would probably be... Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift, yeah, obviously. So Taylor Swift, Peter, Tia.

I actually do think Huberman. And then this is hard to do like in the moment. Oh, Johnny Depp. And do I need another woman probably? Actually, I might bring Dave Asprey, even though I do know him, but I think he would provide an interesting... Yeah, I got to think about that some more though. I might change it to somebody like in the entertainment industry. Oh, oh, oh, wait. Oh, my goodness. How about my... No, backtrack, Lana Del Rey. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Lana and Taylor will be like talking and chilling out and with you.

Melanie Avalon
Lana and Taylor and you and me, Huberman, Peter, Tia. Oh my gosh, this is the best party ever. Oh, and Blake Lively is as a backup because that's my girl crush.

Barry Conrad
I think she's super hot. I've always thought that she's crushable for sure. you

Melanie Avalon
Oh, she's so crushable. Some people, though, don't like her crushable-wise. So maybe she's not crushable because I feel like she's polarizing.

Barry Conrad
That's kinda good though.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think so. On that note, two more questions?

Barry Conrad
The next question is, where do you see the show going over the next year?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I think so when we were prepping this for this anniversary episode, we were talking with chat GPT for ideas and it gave us like some other really good ideas. So I definitely want to revisit some of those. Like it was like some good ideas for just some like episode topics that we could do different formats. For example, it suggested a like a MythBuster fasting edition episode. I think that would be fun. A fasting confessions episode, which I think could be fun. And that one we could like get fasting confessions from listeners. So I think that would be fun.

Let's see, there was one about hot takes and hard questions. So having like listeners submit their most controversial questions. And then like a fasting games where we like play games on on air. So like to we should do this for sure. Two truths and a lie, but only fasting or health related. Oh my gosh, we should do that next. We have a really fun. Yeah, so I like the different ideas. I think implementing them. I would love at some point in the future to have this as a video show. I just know like logistically, that's difficult. I think if we lived in the same city, we would, I don't know, I would really want to do that. We're in the same city. Yeah. So I think I think focusing on maybe getting the listeners more involved, trying some new formats, and then I would love to do video at some point. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, the sky's the limit. I definitely think, obviously, advancing and growing in the depth of what we share, more community stories, more science, more collaborations. I see some live events, live little pop-ups, a live little meet and greets in the future. That could be really fun.

Maybe even bringing listeners into the show in new ways, like having them call in or leave their questions in a voice note format so we can play it and then answer it. That could be really fun to hear your beautiful voices, just expanding it. And I do agree with the video and I do think about that a lot. There's a way to make that happen because I just think visually, it's just so fun. I wish people could see us laughing and talking and it'd be really fun to do, I think. And if logistically, we can't do it in the same place, even doing some where we can, I don't know, just get high quality. I mean, what do you think of even before doing it in IRL, even doing the whole filming thing? Is that bleak doing that? You know how some people do that on a camera?

Melanie Avalon
like this video.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, do you know how often we do Zoom interviews and stuff like that?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So the thing is, it's like, I need your skills. Like doing videos like a whole... I mean, I'm open to it. And then at the same time, I wonder... I don't know how much... So here... And this is what I've been thinking about with my Mindblown podcast because we stopped... I don't know if I told you this. We stopped Mindblown because we're gonna... You probably saw it and I probably told you or it's probably in Facebook.

But we decided to relaunch it as video and we didn't want to do... The amount of effort and time and resources, both getting ready and editing and all the things to do video as a Zoom call, I don't know that that would substantially boost the numbers as an in-studio. There's something about a high quality in-studio. So it's like, if you're gonna do it, it's like, do it right or not right, but do it, go all the way. But then it's like, pardon me wonders, it's like, maybe if you and I did this as an in-studio, just made that work, however it may be, maybe that would just make the show skyrocket. Which would make it... I mean, I'd love to do it anyways, but it would... And we could turn into a YouTube thing too.

Barry Conrad
If there was like a lot of planning we could like smash out like batches of episodes. You know because i mean if you don't live in the same place i mean but that would also just require just planning logistics you know to make that things we do record.

Pretty well not every but we do like a couple of shows at a time when we do it so we just take some planning like to like a whole weekend of like. 10 episodes i don't know do you know in.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, yeah, because that's what Scott and I were talking about with Mindblown is we're saying, because we're going to test the waters with it and see how it goes. But basically the game plan would be like, we'll find the studio that feels really good and everything like that. And then have a trip and just do four episodes one day, four episodes, maybe the next day. So that's like two months of episodes or even five and five. So then it's like doing a trip every other month. And if it makes the show, well, it would be so much more fun.

But if it makes the show increase even more in listenership and audience than it would, as far as money and resources and finances, it would pay for itself if it creates that ROI.

Barry Conrad
Mm hmm. Totally.

I mean, that's the I mean, we've been to a BC, it's such a visual medium and people just like to see people in real time doing just how they react what their faces are doing when they're thinking just people like to like watch how other people just interact.

Melanie Avalon
And you know what we could do? We could dress up for all of them. So I could wear like one of my different gowns every time and you could wear one of your suits.

Barry Conrad
We could definitely dress up and just, or just get like styling for each episode. Like treat it like a whole, like proper, not a talk show, but you know, like that kind of thing, like have stylists have hair, make up the whole thing, lighting.

Just make it a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like I said, I would want to find like a really good studio that so I mean, I really want to do it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, you know, we could think we could definitely.

Melanie Avalon
We've been talking about this, you know, and now that you're here, cause like when you were in Australia, it wasn't not an option, but now you're here.

Barry Conrad
If it's the whole idea of the whole concept of smashing out batches, take a trip and do that every other month, that's doable. It takes a bit of planning with questions and prep and stuff like that, but it's less time.

You smash it all out in a week, a couple of days or so, and then that's done.

Melanie Avalon
I think, okay, now I feel like we actually do have to do this.

Barry Conrad
Well, you know, like 2026 could be the year of like giving it a good crack. I mean, why not?

I mean, it could only not work or not work. I mean, I think it could only work because it's seeing us. I mean, why wouldn't people want to interact, you know?

Melanie Avalon
We should, you know, we should at least, okay, here's the thing. Cause I think what's intimidating is not intimidating, but what's a little bit overwhelming is like, can we sustain it?

Can we keep doing that? But we could just trial it. So we could record like eight episodes and a trip and we can see, cause I think we would know after airing eight, eight episodes, it like, is this affecting? We know what, what is this doing and can we keep doing it? And if we can keep doing it and it is great and we put on YouTube as well, then we keep doing it.

Barry Conrad
And if not, we can just revert back and all and the thing is people still get the audio on nothing changes for them that can still listen to it on the preferred platform and then what particular watch it on youtube and whatever so it's great.

Melanie Avalon
And it could be like a YouTube show too. So yeah, and we could even okay. Yeah, we should okay. We'll talk We'll talk more Call me

Barry Conrad
And also we could we could even like have like a little like i don't know how this would work but even have like a cheese and you know we do a restaurant segment you know stop just stuff like that make it really cool like and have like different intro tiles for each segment that flashes on the screen you know i just see it okay

Melanie Avalon
We're going to, listeners, let us know if this is something that I know like I've pulled in the group before about Mindblown, but I haven't about this show. We should pull.

I need to make a note because there's something we're going to pull from last time. What was it? It was like it wasn't related to fasting.

Barry Conrad
It was phones, phones at the table.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that was this episode. OK, yes.

Barry Conrad
But so many possibilities, which is exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I know, it's like the sky's the limit. I actually have a project I can't really talk about yet, but I might be doing a really fun video-related project in the new year, so we shall see.

Yeah, I can tell you about it offline.

Barry Conrad
Which which makes me excited because I know that you don't you know crazy about videos so anything that gets you to do it is great. Yes

Melanie Avalon
Yes. It's more like the time and energy, but okay. Shall we go to our last question? Let's do it.

So last question of part two anniversary episode. What is one thing about the other hosts that listeners may not realize but absolutely should?

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. There's so many different ways I could go with this. Wow, what can I say? I was thinking about a funny thing and then I was thinking just like a genuine nice thing. Okay, I'll probably share both.

Well, you listeners may or may not know this, but if you don't know this about Melanie, this is like the funny, unique thing is that she does not like to travel for more than a day. She's not good at traveling. She doesn't like it. She doesn't. She, you know, I've asked her several times like, what if you had to go here and it was for this? It's like, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't be there. It's like, why not? It's like, you could do it. It's like, no, I need too many things. I need a suitcase for my supplements. I need a suitcase for this and a suitcase for all the things that I need to feel good. So she's not a great traveler and I know that she wants to get better at traveling, but she does not enjoy it, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm not a morning person. So a lot of the things that you asked me, those situations, it's like, would you travel and like do this thing at 9am? Like, would you meet Peter at Tia at 9am? Like, I don't know.

Barry Conrad
Well, you know what, if we did the video thing, what if we had to, what if the, okay. This is another scenario.

What if the podcast studio that we really love. Oh, they do mornings. Nope. From 9AM to like, you would say no. No. So we filming at like midnight. Oh, wow. I'll be like 2AM the studio. And then I should say, and this is easy for me to say, Melanie is one of just the most caring, integrous, genuine, honest, funny people that I know. And it's a real joy and pleasure. Not just doing the show with you, but just knowing you and being your friend. So if listeners don't know that you've heard it from me, there you go.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much.

I'm going to treasure that. Oh, you're all of those characteristics as well, so much. So the thing that I actually thought about this, and there's so many things, I think one of the characteristics about you that I most appreciate that listeners might not realize, but absolutely should, is this actually came up a little bit, I think, in this episode when I was talking or last episode. Oh, it was last episode where I was talking about my first impression of you and you made a comment about you're not offended or anything like that. So there's only a few, not say there's only a few, but a lot of people, even if it's good friendships, good relationships, there are things you have to tiptoe around. A lot of people are tiptoey, like you got to know people's triggers or things that people can't talk about or you're worried about offending somebody. I never have that. Like, I feel so like psychological safety, I feel very safe with you. Like talking with you, I feel like we can talk about anything. And it takes a really evolved person with their ego to be that type of person where you're not, even if you are offended, you're not like, you know, it's not the other person. So you're like highly emotionally intelligent. And I I just really appreciate that we can talk about all the things. And I'm just never worried about how you're going to react.

Barry Conrad
That really means a lot. Thank you so much for saying that. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, it's such I feel like it's like the quality that would just, I mean, there are a lot of qualities that would really help the world. But if everybody could have that quality, we wouldn't have like the conflict that we have today, because we could just be safe with each other, even if we have different opinions.

Barry Conrad
I feel the same way about you. I like that we're both direct and at the same time, not direct in a blunt way, but direct and honest, and we don't shy away from having different opinions about things and we can talk about anything.

That's a really cool place to be in because a lot of people, you're right, you don't know how they're going to react or take things, you know what I mean? Even friends, really good friends.

Melanie Avalon
So I can feel like we can talk about any topic. I also can totally like shut you down and you won't hate me. So

Barry Conrad
Like the row thing? Yeah, you can, you're sitting in a different row. Yeah, you can sit with me. I'm not going to sit with you here.

Melanie Avalon
or morning or traveling. No, no, no. And then I was, I'm trying to decide if we should, we have like a mutual thing that listeners might not realize about the show, which we could share.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's share it.

Melanie Avalon
Do you know what it is? It's something that we do on some shows.

Barry Conrad
Ah, we should definitely, we should share it.

Melanie Avalon
It's not every show, but sometimes listeners, when we are having our proverbial breaking of the fast, we also literally break our fast with a glass of wine. You can see going forward if you can tell which episodes it is.

Barry Conrad
You should write and say, that's why they sounded like, well, what were they saying?

Melanie Avalon
Sometimes I'm like, oh man, thank you, editors.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, thank you, editors. Thank you very much.

Melanie Avalon
But yeah, that is, that has been, that's definitely something we've never, I've never done on the show before, so. It's fun though. It's so fun.

Which, so speaking of, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment? Yes. Maybe without wine, listeners can try to figure it out.

Barry Conrad
That's very funny.

Melanie Avalon
All right friends so here we go and the purpose of this part of the show which again is one of my favorite parts about the format that Barry Conrad and I have and it's that we think it is very important to celebrate the eating window just as much as the fasting window because that is when you're really getting a lot of the benefits from fasting actually that's when you're assimilating your nutrition rebuilding your body rebuilding you know optimizing your immune system all the things. So each week we feature a restaurant where we would go and break our fast and this week we have one that should be anniversary ready.

Barry Conrad
Yes, and yeah, this restaurant that I'm bringing for this second part of this double anniversary episode special is River Cafe in Brooklyn, New York, and essentially the link, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, look at all the fairy lights!

Barry Conrad
It's one of the most iconic, and I don't use that word lightly, iconic anniversary restaurants in America known for engagement photos in the waterfront and skyline views of Manhattan and the Brooklyn Bridge fully a la carte with classics like lobster, rack of lamb, seasonal pastas, lean, polished without becoming precious. The wine list is deep cellar with standout champagne and Bordeaux ideal for milestone celebrations and the vibe is romantic, elegant candle at the kind of place couples book a year in advance for anniversary or proposal nights so it's a quite a big, big deal this place.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. So this is the, at least like the picture on the main website of the outside, the magical like fairy light vibe with plants and everything is my favorite. I think we've talked about this like lighting, so important, so important. First thing I do when I go somewhere, if I can adjust the lighting, I will. I'm that person.

Okay, shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
So let's click on the dinner menu and I'll.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, look at the first thing on the appetizer list.

Barry Conrad
Finally, cause I think the past couple episodes are kind of gone easy on the oysters, but they hear a plenty this time. So, but if you scroll down all this, honestly, there's honestly, before we choose our things, there's so much, so many options.

It's so good. Oh my goodness. Starting with the appetizer, Melanie, what do you, what is catching you?

Melanie Avalon
this is like my dream. Okay. Whoa. Those are all app. Whoa. Okay. Let me make this smaller because we can't see everything. Okay. There are so many appetizers.

Barry Conrad
Amazing ones you have to have one you could have several.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. We've talked about octopus before, right? Yes. You have had it.

Barry Conrad
I love it. It's very, very good. And it never disappoints.

It's a little bit chewy, but I don't know that that's not a bad thing. I like it. Some people don't like the consistency. I love it. It's really good.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, there's so many things I want. Should we go back and forth? Should we? What should we do?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's go back and forth.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so first one, I really definitely, oh my goodness, I want the rabbit, which is pancetta. Wait, is it pancetta or pancetta? It's pancetta, right?

Pancetta wrapped roasted rabbit loin, artichoke, and rabbit lasagna, oven-dried tomato pesto, rabbit juice. And I wanna get the, whatever they can put on the side. Well, I need everything on the side. So have you had rabbit?

Barry Conrad
I have, I had rabbit and antenna reef a couple of years ago for the first time. It was so good. It's so delicious.

Melanie Avalon
It's really lean, right? It's the reason we have the word rabbit starvation. Do you know about this? So have you heard of rabbit starvation? This actually relates to protein.

Barry Conrad
I don't think so.

Melanie Avalon
So there's this idea that if you eat too much protein or high protein, that you get rabbit starvation. But it's not about... And there's this idea that it comes from the protein toxicity, but that's not true because rabbit starvation was when... I don't know. It's also called protein poisoning. And it's what happens when somebody eats almost only lean protein. But the key is there has to be no fat or carbohydrates.

And okay, so it's from the early explorers who tried to survive on very lean wild rabbits during harsh winters. And the idea is your body can't run on protein alone. Your liver can't process it. But I think what's really important to know is that it's not so much too much protein. It's that you don't... It's zero fat. So you don't have any of the other accompanying nutrients that you need. And so that's why rabbit starvation and this idea of high protein being bad, it's more than just the protein. Wow. Interesting. How about you? How about your next one?

Barry Conrad
So the first one i'm gonna do is the river cafe oysters have to do it it's river cafe oysters warm lemon glazed boa soleil oysters caramelized sweet onion speck ham pacific sturgeon caviar yum.

Melanie Avalon
Nice, I will not be having that. I'll have a bite of the caviar

Barry Conrad
Maybe because it's the anniversary might maybe kind of sort of maybe kind of try one of those days.

Melanie Avalon
I will try it. I won't like it, but I will try it.

Barry Conrad
What's your second addition?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, there's two I really want. So I actually, I know you know that I don't like to get scallops as my entree, but I will get it as an appetizer and especially this situation because it's a pork belly scallop duet. So slow cooked heritage pork belly, seared main sea scallop, pink pineapple, toasted macadamia, smoky pork juice. Okay, yes, that's amazing.

Again, everything on the side, please, but heritage pork belly with a seared scallop. It sounds like pure bliss, like that bite is probably just pure bliss.

Barry Conrad
That sounds amazing. I'm actually going to go with hot foie gras, because I actually got into this in Sydney shortly before coming maybe the last couple of years. I like foie gras. It's really, really good.

Sauté duck foie gras, sautens, poached quince, pistachio, main produce, confit, fadalia, onion.

Melanie Avalon
And it's hot.

Barry Conrad
And it's hot, so that'll be really, really delicious.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know that I've, I think I've only briefly tasted foie gras.

Barry Conrad
Really? I'm really surprised that you haven't tried it.

Melanie Avalon
I do feel, I mean, I have had it, it was very delicious. I do feel, I feel bad about like the situation, but, cause it's basically like fatty liver.

It's basically like, it's probably, I'm gonna go like a cannibal route. It's like if we had fatty liver, what it would taste like, but, but it is delicious and I will try it. My third one, speaking of actually kind of similar situation, like the fattiness, so the Wagyu steak tartare. I love steak tartare so much. So this is hand cut Kobe style beef with quail egg. Oh, I like quail egg. Cognat Gillet, traditional garnish, toast points. So I will get that all on the side. I'm really excited about the quail egg. I'm assuming, I wonder if it's like legit, it probably is like the, like the Wagyu Kobe, you know, like the, the real thing.

Barry Conrad
And I will get octopus. It's Portuguese octopus, seed, a la planta, heirloom, fingerling, potato, aragula leaves, classic romesco sauce. Sounds so good. What a table of appetizers.

Melanie Avalon
This menu is absolutely perfect. What does it mean? I should know this. Sierra de la Plancia. Is that on a plank or no?

Barry Conrad
It means cooking food on a very hot metal plate.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. And I do like that they call it appetizers.

Barry Conrad
and so we move on to the main course.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, please.

Barry Conrad
Look at those options over there.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, this menu is perfect. It's like the perfect menu, the perfect vibe. We have to go here.

Okay, so after we launch our video version and we go on YouTube and then when we get our plaque, like the YouTube award plaque, which now I've decided we have to do this, this is where I wanna go to celebrate here.

Barry Conrad
So we've got to do it.

Melanie Avalon
This might be my favorite restaurant that you've picked.

Barry Conrad
It's a, I'm really glad that I picked this too. I was like, what a good find. It looks amazing and I have to try it because it's right here.

Melanie Avalon
Did you Google anniversary restaurants?

Barry Conrad
something like that, yeah, but I fine-tuned it a little bit.

Melanie Avalon
Fine-tuned. Perfect. Okay. This is so amazing and hard.

Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. I know I do. I think I do. I have to ask some questions, but what are you getting?

Barry Conrad
What would you want to go first? You can go first.

Okay. I'm getting two things. I'm getting the lamb, which is roasted colorado, rack of lamb, Moge sausage, stuffed baby eggplant, English pea puree, natural lamb reduction. And.

Melanie Avalon
How are you getting it cooked?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go medium rare and then I'm also going to get the lobster, which is poached Nova Scotia lobster, tail baked lobster, Thermador gratin, Tuscan kale, crisp, salsa, fi fondant potato, mild lemon sauce. That sounds so good.

Melanie Avalon
I thought you were going to get the lobster.

Barry Conrad
Really? A lot. I just can't wait. This looks great. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
So I want, I need to talk to them about this because, so the venison, you know, I love venison, shout out to Maui Nui, but it's pan roasted venison loin. So I want to know how it's actually prepared.

And like, does that mean it's like a sauce situation or like, I don't know, I would like to get it plain. It comes with caramelized root vegetables, braised red cabbage, chestnuts, spacial. I can actually say that. Or spatula. I should know this. It's German. Young pine cone infused venison juice. Have you had pine cone infused anything before?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, I can't say I have.

Melanie Avalon
I didn't know you could flavor things with pinecone. Do they have pinecones in Australia?

Barry Conrad
I think they do, but it's not something that I'm more saw around like Cape Town, South Africa. Not really.

Melanie Avalon
Well, that sounds really good. So if they can make it plain for me and then everything on the side, that, and then I love, I love Bronzino, which is also called Branzino, I think. So I love Bronzino and it is Mediterranean sea bass wild shrimp crust. Oh, interesting.

Stuffed artichoke, taproot, broccoli, artichoke, and olive oil sauce. So if they can make it, because I'm assuming it's probably like a breading situation, so if they can make it without the wild shrimp crust or if they can just like adjust that a little bit and then put everything on the side. I love this fish and it tends to be lower in mercury as well.

Barry Conrad
Delicious, sounds so good. Is anything catching your eye for the dessert menu?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I know what I want. I'm probably going to have more of the appetizers.

So probably more like, especially since I didn't get like a steak or beef, I'm going to be having a craving. Like I want to fill that, that beef craving. So I might get more of the Wagyu tartar. Maybe.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. That sounds great.

I'm going to get the Chocolate Brooklyn Bridge, which is actually highlighted in orange, so it must be really, really good. Dark chocolate, my Keith, passion fruit ice cream, banana macadamia ganache, banana spuma. I don't even know what that is, but it sounds really good. And it's also highlighted on the dessert menu, so that's me. And then also some artisanal cheeses, because I love cheeses.

Melanie Avalon
I was hoping you would get that. I love a good cheese plate. I probably won't have any, but I would like to see them.

I would like to hear about them, because we know at this type of restaurant, if you get a cheese plate, they're gonna talk you through the cheese plate, and I love that. And then you can tell me what you think.

Barry Conrad
I sure can. And then also, if we click on the wine program now, it'll take us to a page and then this highlighted text that says the River cafes wine list.

So if you're going to click on that, it'll take us to a whole lot of a big assortment of a lot, actually.

Melanie Avalon
Is this just the wines or the cocktails as well?

Barry Conrad
Wow, they've got so many wines. I feel confident saying that you'll find something you would like here.

Melanie Avalon
This is definitely the type of list that I would need to take some time with, and there's a lot. Oh my goodness, there's so many. This is all by the bottle, though.

Barry Conrad
So extensive, but I think I would definitely like to get some champagne to start because send in anniversary vibes.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, a dry champagne. Do they have like a rosé champagne? They do they have I've had that before though Oh, that's a rosé wine. Okay champagne We can get like a oh they do they have a brute rosé

Barry Conrad
Perfect doing that. That's me. I reckon I'll be doing that.

Melanie Avalon
then the reds. So I would have to take some time and I would probably get something European, France, maybe a Gamay or a Cap Franc, but I feel very good about finding something here for sure. We don't have to sneak in my wine. We'll be good.

Awesome, awesome. How far is this from you? What part of New York?

Barry Conrad
So this is based in Brooklyn, which is basically where I live in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York. So it's not far at all.

You should go. I know. You know what? I'm actually going to make a note. I definitely have to go.

Melanie Avalon
You should go to the bar at the very least, you know, because you might not be able to get like a reservation. But I'm assuming you could probably go to the bar.

Oh, I found the, I found the bar, the cocktail bar. Oh, I found the menu. So go to information and then cocktail bar.

Barry Conrad
Apple martini actually sounds really good. I've actually been getting into martinis lately.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? Is that your new thing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, green apple cordial pinau de char, I'm getting this wrong, charantes, soca, sorghum spirit, cardamon. I reckon I'm gonna do that.

Melanie Avalon
So two questions for you about the martinis because having been a server in fine dining for five years, when you get the martini drinker, it's like it is both, it's a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because martini drinkers, they're probably going to order a lot of expensive food. They're probably going to tip.

Well, they're also probably going to be, I don't want to say obnoxious, but I wouldn't be obnoxious. They have a lot of requests about martinis. So when you order a martini, like not like a themed one, but like just like a straight up martini, how do you order it?

Barry Conrad
Gin Matine Dirty with two olives.

Melanie Avalon
See, it's always like a specific number of olives. Are they blue cheese stuffed olives? No. Okay, so just two olives.

And why do you think that is? Like why is it like there's a certain number that you need?

Barry Conrad
Well, 2 or 3. If they're big, I'll do 2. If they're small, I'll do 3.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, slightly dirty. Yeah. There you go. Awesome. Well, I am so excited. We will go here when we get our YouTube plaque.

Barry Conrad
Done. We got to do it. Celebratory vibes.

Melanie Avalon
make a note. So friends, thank you so much for being here with us over all the years, and especially this past year that Barry has been here. It has been so incredible. This was so fun talking about all the memories and all the things.

And now we have to plan, we're going to plan our episode 500, something special for that. And then we will plan our two year anniversary as well. So please send us ideas and thoughts. And you can do that by emailing questions at ifodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 457. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad, and we are IF Podcast. I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much once again for tuning in, everyone, for listening, for being with us, and here's to many, many more. See you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. See you next week. Bye.

Bye, Bill. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Welcome to Episode 456: Special Anniversary Part 1 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

SHOW NOTES

LINKS 

Featured Restaurant: ⁠Cinderella's Royal Table⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠IF Podcast Episode 447⁠

STUDIES

⁠Daily energy expenditure through the human life course⁠

⁠Enjoyment or indulgence: What draws the line in hedonic food consumption?⁠⁠

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 456 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 456 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm Barry Conrad. Barry, I paused because I was going to say something really sparkly about anniversary episode, but then I realized it's also episode 456. It's kind of fun.

Barry Conrad
That is kind of fun actually. Do you think it means anything? What do you think? What's your feeling of that number being read out?

Melanie Avalon
My feeling is we look for patterns in life and they don't mean anything.

Barry Conrad
Pattern recognition with no meaning.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Because there's so many numbers where it could have been that situation.

It could have been three, two, one. It could have been seven, seven, seven. It could have been one, one, one. Literally it could have been anything.

Barry Conrad
11 11

Melanie Avalon
Oh, man, episode 1,111.

Barry Conrad
Because I saw someone, there's someone that I follow who always posts like a photo at 11 11 like it's a thing. She always does that.

Melanie Avalon
I love 11-11. Why? Because it's like the one time where you have this magical moment and then if you see it, then you can like text it to people.

Barry Conrad
Okay, it's good to know for the future.

Melanie Avalon
Do you never text 11-11 make a wish to anybody? You're gonna start getting it from me.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there you go. I've got to start doing it.

Melanie Avalon
It's great. Yeah.

But yes, for listeners, this is our one year anniversary of Barry Conrad being the co-host of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Actually, technically, I think tomorrow would be that day, but it was very close.

Barry Conrad
It's very close and it's super exciting. We realized this, I think last week or another episode where it's like, hey, is it our anniversary next week?

What? That just changed the game and what we're gonna do for the show, but I'm so excited. I can't believe it's been a year. It doesn't feel like a year, but it also has felt like ages. Like we were doing this forever. Do you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, exactly. I'm just so grateful. I just had the best time doing this show. It's so fun.

So for listeners, for this episode, and we decided to go ahead and make it a two parter because we know how we talk. So we're going to catch up like normal. And then we have some fun questions about the podcast, about our co hosting, we think that'll be really fun. And then we will still do our traditional restaurant at the end. And we're going to make them anniversary worthy restaurants.

Barry Conrad
very fitting for the occasion. I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm excited because when we were brainstorming for what to do for this episode and next episode, we actually found some other cool ideas for future episodes.

Barry Conrad
So stay tuned.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, stay tuned. So how are things in your world?

Barry Conrad
Things are great, you know, Mel, I have to say on the weekend, I went to see, even though this is in the future on the weekend, I went to see something that you saw as well. You want to guess what that is?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love guessing games, especially when they involve seeing things, a show.

Barry Conrad
It's something that you watch, it's not something that you sit in the front row for necessarily.

Melanie Avalon
You will be wicked.

Barry Conrad
Yes, you got it.

Melanie Avalon
We are so, okay, so this comes out January 12th. Everybody, if you haven't been wicked yet.

Barry Conrad
You have to see it. Hopefully it's still in the cinema. I don't know.

But Mel, I had a few wild facts about this movie that really blew me away. Like, you know, I, you know, because apparently John Chiu, John M. Chiu, incredible director, you know, he was so serious about making it feel real and not like overly CGI because I thought it was CGI, but he actually wanted to make people feel like they were walking around Oz. And because of that, something like I want to say like over 90 percent, well, actually over 90 percent of the sets were practical, like real built.

Melanie Avalon
Oh really?

Barry Conrad
Isn't that insane?

Melanie Avalon
That's a me. I want to see it again and I'm going to appreciate that while watching it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, which explains a lot, and Munchkin land, they actually planted 9 million tulips in the English countryside to build that world, not a million.

Melanie Avalon
Wait wait wait so the shots of the flowers those were all real.

Barry Conrad
Mmhmm.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm realizing in real time, I thought those were the poppies, but those weren't the poppies, those were tulips.

Barry Conrad
There are puppies in another scene, but the tulips are like the pink ones. You know those pink ones?

Melanie Avalon
Mm hmm. No, I distinctly remember it. And I think I attributed it to poppies as well. And I was I was like, those don't look like poppies. Okay.

Barry Conrad
And how many, how many months do you reckon it took the shiz university set to be built? It's under 10 over two.

Melanie Avalon
eight, seven, five.

Barry Conrad
four five six

Melanie Avalon
Still.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, amazing, right?

Melanie Avalon
Wow, thank you. That's a good fun fact.

Barry Conrad
And last but not least, the train, 16 tons, built for real. It's a real train.

Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. That must be so incredible to be an actor and to get to be on that set. Right? Like how cool would that be? Cause that's like the closest you're going to get to like being in a world like that.

Barry Conrad
As far as we know, a sparkly mythical world. What did you actually think of it? Did you like it? Did you love it? Did you like it more than the first one?

Melanie Avalon
I actually answered this question with a friend today. So I loved it.

I do think I prefer the first one a little bit more, but I still loved it. It was interesting that they added in new songs. I want to know if Stephen Schwartz did those songs. Do you know?

Barry Conrad
I actually don't know that because which ones were I know the ones I recognize like Because I knew like like for good and as long as you're mine, but I don't know the other ones

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so the No Place Like Home song was new, and then The Girl in the Bubble, Elphaba and Glinda got a new song. And yes, Steven Schwartz did write them for the film. They also added in a lot of small singing moments, which I don't think are in the the play or the the stage version. I'm fairly certain. Like it was like repriezes of other songs that happened like three times maybe. And I think I could be wrong.

Barry Conrad
You know, every time I saw Ariana Grande as Glinda, I just keep on thinking of you and your, you know, your Halloween and just the dress up moments, like, you know, the long dresses and, you know, all that.

Melanie Avalon
You know, it's funny, I actually, because I did wear my Glinda from part one to the movie. And for some reason, I was like embarrassed or nervous or embarrassed.

Why? I don't know. But then once I got there, everybody was so supportive. It was wild and that quickly changed. Then I was good.

Barry Conrad
I thought it looked right.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. I was definitely the only person there though in like full, full character besides the characters that they had to take pictures with because our movie theater goes all out.

Which type of movie theater did you see it in?

Barry Conrad
I actually went to one that's like just around the corner and it's kind of one of those really intimate low key ones, like really small, like hardly any, like, you know, like a few seats. It was really cool.

It was like having a private screening room.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. Like recliner seats and everything? Yes. That's the way it is. Once you go to that type of movie theater, I can never go back now to like a normal theater.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, trying to scoot through rows and try, you know, like, sorry, sorry, you know, rows of people.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I need my recliner, my heated seat, my wine, I need all the things.

Barry Conrad
Tell me about you. How has your week been?

Melanie Avalon
So good. I had the most magical, no pun intended show experience on Sunday, which I already told you some of this, Barry, but this is perfect example of why you must be on the front row while seeing shows.

Why? So I went to a magical Cirque Christmas. Again, this is in January, but actually we're recording this in November. Oh, that's a side note. How do you feel about Christmas before Thanksgiving? Like Christmas stuff, like music, or I don't like it.

Barry Conrad
I never ever had an opinion about that until now, because in Australia, we didn't have that. So it's like just Christmas from November 1st all the way through.

But now that I'm here, like November 1st or even before.

Melanie Avalon
What? Before?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, just like Christmas songs in the mall and Christmas decorations going up. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
In October? Yep. Oh my goodness. Okay. So you were raised. Okay.

Barry Conrad
But then now it's like Thanksgiving, it's almost like they're battling it out. Like Thanksgiving's happening, but there's still Christmas carols being played in the mall and the store and there's decorations everywhere.

What about you? What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I feel very, very strongly about this. So October is the month of Halloween. Everything should be themed accordingly, spooky stuff, jack-o'-lanterns, et cetera.

November is the month of Thanksgiving. Pumpkins but not jack-o'-lanterns, pumpkins, but like pumpkin vibe, thankful vibe. I don't want to hear any Christmas. No, no, no. I just think Christmas is so sacred that it cannot happen until the day after Thanksgiving wherever that may fall.

Barry Conrad
So is that the rule like the day after like the clock strikes 12 the day after Thanksgiving then? Mariah Carey or whatever whatever Christmas songs and just like

Melanie Avalon
I had to listen to Christmas on Sunday because it was a Christmas show, but I will not play a Christmas song until the day after Thanksgiving.

Barry Conrad
This is really a new experience. I love this. I've never, I didn't know you had this opinion A and B. I didn't know that maybe other Americans share the same thought. I wonder if they do.

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's funny is my friend Sarah that I went to the show with, it's funny because we equally love Christmas, and yet that manifests in the different ways in that she puts up her tree after Halloween, which I think is sacrilegious, and she says, I'm not in the Christmas spirit. I'm like, no, no, no, I just appreciate Christmas and it is so special that it cannot happen until December.

Barry Conrad
So you won't, when will you put your tree up and are you excited to, is your tree going to be different to past years or the same one?

Melanie Avalon
It's always the same, which is a collection and this is so untimely for listeners. I'm so sorry, but It's always a collection of childhood ornaments ornaments from musicals and ornaments from Taylor Swift and the Taylor Swift and the musical ones is a collection that forever grows because More musicals and Taylor keeps popping out those ornaments I just got five more Taylor Swift ones five.

Yeah, she literally has like 50 on her website

Barry Conrad
Also, she keeps making music, so there you go.

Melanie Avalon
I did go and see A Magical Cirque Christmas, which I thought was Cirque du Soleil. It's actually not, I mean, it's like Cirque du Soleil, but they're not affiliated.

It's a touring Broadway-type show and it's also a magic show. Wow. Yes, and we were on the front row and I did get picked for a trick. See, this is why you must be on the front row. And then they remembered me, so then they invited me to hang out with them after, like the whole cast. And see, that would not happen if I had not been on the front row. See?

Barry Conrad
So did you do your eyes? Because listen, as Melanie does this thing, she tries to make eye contact. I'd love to see this in action.

Melanie Avalon
I made that eye contact and it worked.

Barry Conrad
What do you do? Do you just stare and try to lock? Like, what do you do? Do you just lock in?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you just try to like, well, you figure out who you want to send these messages to, you know, and then you, you try to send because the happiness I feel when I'm seeing a show front row is like, it's like my shining, beautiful state of being that I just want to exist in, in this incandescent state. So I try to take that energy and send it with gratitude to the person, which you got to do by making eye contact.

Barry Conrad
Are really, you know what, because listeners, Mel and I had, we talked on Instagram about this, but she was like, what will we do if you don't like sitting in the front row? And I said, I'll sit in the front row for you because I want to see, I want to look at you to the left to the right wherever you're sitting and just watch you and actually use your powers to see what you do.

Like, what is your face doing when you like what, you know, do you tilt your head? What do you do?

Melanie Avalon
I don't, I mean, you can tell me when we, and also by the way, listeners told Barry said that he would, he would adjust and be in the front row for me and I told him I would not adjust and be in a different row.

Barry Conrad
It's good to know the favor is now returned. Thanks, Mel. Wow.

Melanie Avalon
You don't want me if I'm not like, like, you know, you want me to be in my, my vibe. We can sit separate. I can be on the front row and you can be farther back.

Barry Conrad
We have to sit together also I have another question for you about shows.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh, and I have one other part of the story too to tell you.

Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, keep telling me. Go. You go first. Do you cry at shows or not really?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, during, oh, like stage shows? Yeah. I don't think I actually, I don't think I have. I think the closest, I almost cried in Wicked and I almost cried in Frozen.

Oh, wow. Sorry, Wicked the stage show. Wicked the movie. I didn't even see the scene for good. I was crying so hard. Like I literally, people are talking about like things that happened during that scene and I'm like, I don't know because I was like bawling and my eyes were closed. Did you cry?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I'm not gonna lie. I teared up. It's a pretty emotional, like, it sounds really girly to say, but it was really emotional moments.

Good acting, like, amazing, grounded performances. I loved it.

Melanie Avalon
of all acting, but have you cried in a stage show?

Barry Conrad
Not so much. I think it's more like film. I think because it feels more private for some reason, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you're like more in it. It's more like in your head in a movie. Compared to a stage show, it's like you're watching something. I mean, you're watching something both ways, but it's different.

Barry Conrad
I get more goosebumps, but anyway, I'm distracting you from your story. What else happened?

Melanie Avalon
last part of the story. So Cirque du Soleil, amazing, all the things. I get home, they didn't invite me until like I was already home. So I go all the way home, which is like half an hour away. And then they were saying where they were, which was this like dive bar. Actually, you probably would have liked it. It was kind of a cool vibe. It was like a game like an arcade themed bar. I was like, you know, we talked about I think last time Barry how even though I'm a night owl, like I don't like being out super late. So I was like, I don't think I'm going to go.

But then they said two things that made me have to go. One, they said that they had a hard out time at 1150 because of the tour bus leaving. I was like, okay, so there's a hard out I can do that. And then two, they said that the whole cast wanted to meet me because they were all talking about me. I was like, oh my goodness, I can't not go. So so then I turn around, go right back, forgot my ID. So I talked my way in

Barry Conrad
Look at you. Okay, what did you say?

Melanie Avalon
And I was having flashbacks because I don't remember like I haven't been in like a bouncer situation where I'm trying to talk my way in since college and back then you actually are underage. You know, I was like, this is crazy.

What if I what if I come this whole way and I can't get in? What I ended up doing was I pulled up the CNBC article that has my age in the title and I was like, this is me. See?

Barry Conrad
That's hilarious and genius. That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
They let me in.

Barry Conrad
That's so good. Did you like meeting them? Were they fun? Like what would they like?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. Okay, that's my other thing, Barry.

This actually reminds me of you. I'm really blown away by how they're so incredibly physically talented and do this really grueling, you know, acrobatics and things that just blow my mind and they're doing on tour and they're doing like multiple shows and they still party like I would be wrecked.

Barry Conrad
I know that you would, because you'd be like, oh, I've got to go. This is not, you know, I can't do it, but it's, it's just like adrenaline. Like you're also coming down from the show and then you crash the next morning kind of thing, you know.

Melanie Avalon
When you do one of your runs of a show, do you go out every night after?

Barry Conrad
Not every night, but there's usually definitely a couple nights where we'll head out, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And then you just like wake up the next day and just carry on.

Barry Conrad
You usually sleep a little bit later, usually Melanie Avalon out of it, which means you wake up a bit later because you're so erect and then you just do it again.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, yeah, I can't. It's amazing. But um, but yeah, no, it was super fun.

Barry Conrad
That's awesome. Are you gonna keep in touch with them?

Melanie Avalon
Probably not, but I would see again if it comes in town.

Barry Conrad
At least I know that you can talk us into a club if we lose our dues. There we go.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny? You look so young, I bet you would have a hard time talking your way in.

Barry Conrad
That has happened and does happen, but it's just, it's hilarious. I've tried the Google thing and people don't, bounces like, I don't care, bro.

You know, coming in. Cause they just get stubborn about it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's probably easier as a girl. Oh, it depends on the bouncer.

Definitely depends on the bouncer. So the bouncer is like their mission. Their mission in life is to not let people in, if they can, you know? So, and it's like that type of bouncer, you're like, you're not getting in.

Barry Conrad
I feel like if they saw a UML, you'd just have this aura, like this vibe where they, you know, like, we have to litter in.

Melanie Avalon
Like I'm not lying vibe. So to put a nice little bow on everything, have I convinced you that one must be on the front row.

Barry Conrad
I don't know about convince, but I'll definitely sit with you on the front, even though you wouldn't sit with me in the middle or further background.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. OK, so shall we jump into our first anniversary questions, which these actually do relate to fasting in the podcast and things more timely.

Barry Conrad
For sure. This is exciting. This is great.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I've been really looking forward to this.

Barry Conrad
So our first anniversary question is what has been your favorite part or moment of doing the show this past year?

Melanie Avalon
I think there were, well, okay, a few things. One, I really like our restaurant format. I like the format of the show. So like, this is like a general answer, but I really like how we do the studies at the beginning. I love doing listener Q&A. I love hearing from listeners. I love talking with them, even though they can't talk back in the moment. And then I love doing our restaurants at the end. It's just so, so fun.

I think there were two topics that we talked about that I really,

Barry Conrad
And also, this is really crazy because I also picked two, so this is, yeah, I wonder if it's the same. Yeah, it won't be the same.

Melanie Avalon
So I think the general format and then one of my answers, so there have been a few episodes where I really enjoyed the topic and I'm going to save one of them for a later answer, but one for now is I really liked the study about the lack of weight gain with age compared to what people think. Like the one about when, you know, how much people actually realistically gain as they age. I think that is one of the most shocking studies that is so contrary to what people think because wasn't it like people don't really gain weight statistically up until like, I'm paraphrasing, but like 50 or 60 and then after that it's like 2% or something like that. Yeah. So I really, really enjoyed that.

I like when we find studies where it's just so either contrary to what you were thinking or fascinating to talk about or just not what you were expecting. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Also, to add into what you were saying, I'd 100% agree. I tried to say that to someone the other day and I couldn't remember the stats, but I need to find that episode so I can look it up again.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so actually listeners, after much searching, we found it. There was that one study that we talked about that I really liked. And it was looking at whether or not people's metabolism slow down as you age, because we think that as you get older, that your metabolism just comes to a screeching halt. And they looked at 6,600 individuals ranging from infancy to 95. And they found that after accounting for body size and composition, total energy expenditure remains relatively stable from age 20 to 60. And even then, it's very minimal.

So after 60, the metabolism only slows down approximately 0.7% per year, which this is so, like, this is so contrary to what we think, like, we've always been told that our metabolism slows down. So point of me telling that is, I love having moments like that on the show, where it's something just so contrary to what you're thinking or shocking, but really, that gives you, like, empowering knowledge, and, you know, a new perspective on how you can have agency in what you're doing.

Barry Conrad
That's amazing in that step, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
I know I need to like memorize that like for memory and I need to memorize like the link to the study and just give it to people What is your answer?

Barry Conrad
That's it's so hard because when I look back on this past year, especially because it's my first year, it's super hard to pick like just a single favorite moment. I mean, I really mean that. I mean, there's favorite moments from every show about every episode has something that sticks with me for a different reason. You know, I guess whether it's something personal or something science based. If I had to highlight a couple, that's what I said. I've got like two as well. They've been a lot to me personally. I, there are a couple that do stand out though. One was definitely when we recorded on my birthday this year, Mel, I came into that day thinking it'd be like completely normal session, you know, same process, same format. By the way, I love our format as well. I love our banter, study, listening questions, restaurant of that as well. But I thought it'd be a completely normal session, same everything, same rhythm. But then Mel, you acknowledged my birthday and that probably sounds like a very simple thing, but it was so sincere, so genuine. And it really, it genuinely made me feel really valued and appreciated. And in a way I didn't expect at the moment. And I remember finishing that thinking, oh, that really, really meant something and, and impacted me and stuck with me for the rest of that day, actually, and week. So I'll always remember that as a little cornerstone of this year.

And I would say also the one, I can't remember exactly which episode it was, but the one where we were, we were talking and then it led to us talking about, I think you were about like telling people what they mean to you. You know, when should we tell people what they mean to and why? So like shifted from, I don't know, we may be talking about a listener question or fasting or physiology. And then just we went into that and, and it's moments like those that make the show for me even more memorable.

I love the science. I love the information. So key. It's so important. We love your listener questions, everybody. We love answering them and it's fun and dynamic. And I also think, and also those little in between moments that are unexpected. They really leave me impacted. And also like there's, there's so many funny moments as well, Mel, that we have throughout the year that are unexpected, like even when a listener story like, you know, gets us or there's days where we're tired, like you're tired or I'm stretched thin or whatever on the show, sort of like we, we give each other a boost or like, you know, pick each other up. I like that as well. And even the BTS parts listens because before we actually record, we will check in and, and chat a bit like, and our mythical calls afterwards. It's just a whole thing. It's not just, hopefully you can feel what, you know, our report and our connection through the show because we have so much fun doing it. So the point I'm trying to make is there's no one single favorite moment because it's just all amazing. I love it.

Melanie Avalon
So I love all of that so much. And what I also love, so I had no idea like that birthday moment that that had that effect on you. And I love when you learn like about little moments that you had no idea about, but they really like linger and last for the person. It's so special.

Like one of those for me, but this would have been, this was before, and this kind of relates to the next question about when we first met, but before, do you remember the one time I did video?

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, yes.

Melanie Avalon
And Barry Conrad showed up with wine and like a cucumber. And it was like the sweetest thing ever that, yeah, I'm going to remember that.

Barry Conrad
Because it's Melanie Evelyn's situation, that's what you do. Wine and cucumbers and lots of protein.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, there's a massive cucumber. So and then I also I agree so much. I like, I love everything that I do. I mean, that's a blanket statement.

But I almost everything I do in life, like work wise, I'm just so grateful for what I do. And still, even if I love it, there are some things where it's a little bit draining to do it. Like I walk away, you know, tired, but this show, I always even if I'm tired going in, I always walk away, like very energetic, which I think is very telling.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. I feel exactly the same way. Always invigorated or inspired by the science and by learning something new every week and also just by having the best time I do.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, likewise. Okay, so second question is how did we first meet and what were our first impressions of each other? I know my answer to this so much. Okay, go.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. So I had to really think back because it's funny because I think I want to say it was Instagram. Was it Instagram, Melanie? I remember I was new to fasting and I was listening to the intermittent fasting podcast that I'm now a co-host of it. I was listening to you and I was saying, well, I want to say it was Jen Stevens back then. And I was just learning super new, super green. And I think I may have put something on my story maybe, or something like that, and maybe tagged you guys. And I didn't have any expectations. I just wanted to shout out. And then I think that we exchanged a DM. Well, maybe you replied to the story and we exchanged DMs and stuff like that. And I was surprised, but I was like, oh, I didn't really think anything of it.

But my first impression of you was super kind, super normal, genuinely curious, genuine period. And that's how you sounded on the show. When we started messaging, I was like, oh, this person's actually exactly who she says she is. There's no air or facade or anything like that. And I thought that was super cool. That was awesome. And especially in the space where a lot of people, I reckon, talk at their audience. I reckon you're just the same person, which I straight away stood out to me. And then fast forward down the line, way down the line, you invited me on as a guest. I want to say a couple, I want to say 2023, like two years ago, at least, if anyone wants to scroll back and try to find that. And then I felt that as well, talking to you on that. And then another, I came on one more time and I remember thinking that felt super normal, really chill, really easy. And then that's only when we started talking and you're like, would you want to be a co-host? And I was like, yeah. This is not word for word, but you said something like, I'm wondering whether I should just stay solo or I should have a guest like that. You should have a co-host. I talked to you.

Melanie Avalon
I forgot about that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Talked you into it. And then we just kept on talking off air and just sending voice notes, checking in, having super long chats, big chats on our mythical calls about everything. Fasting as well, obviously, and every life, food, everything.

And then it evolved into a real friendship. But my, to echo what I said, I thought you were super genuine, really fun, sincere, just a great person straight away.

Melanie Avalon
Aww. Okay, so it's interesting because I said I had my answer right away, but I actually don't, it was so long ago now, I don't remember, like I don't remember the first message that was sent or anything like that. I just remember that you were posting, I don't want to say a lot, but you were like sharing stories about the show, which I really appreciated. Like it's really, really, which is so listeners, like feel free to always share stuff about the show on Instagram. Like it's amazing, we love hearing from you and I love like re-sharing it. So I was really, really appreciative of that.

I do know my first impression, which you know. I thought Barry was like a teenager. Nothing wrong with teenagers. That's really funny. I just, I'm not gonna like, I'm not looking to like create a real friendship relationship with a teenager right now, like in my life. And I actually think, I now remember, I think that's what actually got us really talking because then I was Googling and figuring out that you were not a teenager, but I didn't believe it. Like I was like, this is not, this can't be accurate. So then I fact checked with Barry. And then I think that's when we started talking.

Barry Conrad
You really wanted to know, didn't you?

Melanie Avalon
So, oh, and I will say actually, I'm embarrassed about this, but I think, yeah, I think I thought, and it's funny because I get the same thing. Like I know people have given me this feedback, like people don't know me.

I didn't, how do I say this? I didn't know that you had the incredible emotional intelligence depth that you have. Like I kind of wrote you off as like an actor, which is horrible because like I grew up doing acting, but not like wrote you off, but I just thought you were like a really young teenage acting boy. I didn't know you become like one of my closest friends.

Barry Conrad
That's really nice and really funny as well. I don't take offense at all to that, by the way. It's really funny.

Melanie Avalon
I know I get it, like I know, like I read reviews where people are like this dumb blonde and stuff. So, but so I'm not proud of that, but that very quickly, quickly changed once we actually started talking.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's it's what it's actually source anyway, we could go down rabbit holes if we just keep lingering each question because there's so much to get through but it's it's so cool like our all this time and history it feels like we've known each other way longer than we actually have.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, although that would have been a while ago, right? Because if Jen was the co-host, wouldn't that be like at least like five years ago maybe?

Barry Conrad
2019 kind of thing, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh wow, almost like six or six years, seven years, maybe? Okay, so shall we do our next one? Time flies when you're having fun.

Barry Conrad
It does. Listeners, we hope they're enjoying this, by the way. The next question is, what episode or topic surprised you the most once we recorded it?

Melanie Avalon
So this one, something actually immediately came to mind for me. And it was, I think, because I think when we talked about, and it wasn't that long ago, but when we talked about this study, I feel like it became almost the entire conversation.

And it was the study about hedonic pleasure.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that's exactly mine.

Melanie Avalon
That was your answer.

Barry Conrad
Yes. We could just talk about it. We could just talk about it. It's great.

Melanie Avalon
So the study was called enjoyment or indulgence what draws the line in hedonic food consumption and it was published in 2022 in the international journal of hospitality management actually. But it was talking all about the difference between indulgent consumption which is what when we think of that we think of it being very like gratuitous and something to avoid and you know one of the seven deadly sins is gluttony but it was saying that there's a difference between solely indulgent like solely indulgent consumption versus hedonic consumption which is the idea of just appreciating the whatever you're consuming or indulging in but it's in line with your goals.

So basically like the theory was that or the hypothesis they were making was that whether or not something is hedonic or indulgent has to do with if it's supporting your goals or not and it was such an interesting conversation because we were talking about how you know we eat this one big meal a day at night and it's like this feast and all the things and because it's not in conflict with our goals it's not this potentially negative sort of consumption that that people might see as being you know overly pleasurable or hedonic and then I mean versus women and it was so interesting I really really enjoyed it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what came to me straight, like straight away when I saw this question, like that was the easy one for me to, I came up with the exact same topic. It was just, because it is so, you know, there's so many levels to that, you know, Mel, we talked about this offline as well.

Males versus women, body size, how that affects what you eat, you know, what the public societal pressures are around eating and, you know, and people feeling guilt, even people that do intermittent fasting feel guilt around, you know, what they have in their window. Is this too much? Why am I enjoying it so much? Shouldn't this be bad? It just, yeah, it's, you know, that there's a, you said something like there's a difference between eating for pleasure and eating to soothe. And the conversation shifted from science to humanity, Eric. And we, you know, the way someone might reach for food, you know, they're tired. If they're tired, we're overwhelmed or trying to feel something. And then we compare that to hedonic eating, which is almost celebratory, you know, it is, yeah, exactly what you said, Mel, lining up with your goals. So, you know, I think what shocked me most as well is, I guess, just suddenly understanding why some of that guilt could linger in knowing, finding out about this, you know, like, and why, when I'm breaking your fast, a long fast, now I ask myself, is this joy or is this habit, you know, and that tiny question does really change the whole experience. And that episode, like that understanding the difference can remove so much of the shame people carry around food, you know, so yeah, one of the best topics I reckon from this year for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it was absolutely amazing. And if listeners want to hear the whole episode, it was episode 447. So we will put a link to that in the show notes.

Awesome. Okay. So next question is what is one thing you learned this year about fasting that changed your own personal practice? So like a tweak, a timing, a protocol, a mindset shift, a new discovery.

Barry Conrad
I reckon this year, it taught me one of the biggest lessons I've learned because I learned the value of flexibility more so inside a structure rather than just sticking to the clock. As you know, Mel, because I've done 20 hours for ages now, almost like this ritual. And it is really helpful. It's really grounded me. It's supported my mental clarity and whatnot. And it fit into my training and my creativity and it worked and it does work.

But at some point this year, life forced me to sort of more rethink things. And I told you as well, Mel, I stopped using the Xero app. I used to use the Xero app to time my fast and that alone is a big step for me. But I realized I was becoming a bit attached to the timer and I didn't really need to rely on it anymore. So becoming more intuitive and not knowing that my fasting success doesn't depend on an app and using the app. So I guess just loosening my grip a bit more and trusting my body and going, all right, my body needs fuel earlier today or I feel great. So I keep fasting. And I think traveling and performing more this year as well taught me that. So yeah, that would probably be one of the biggest things I've learned just to be more flexible with my fasting because I'm still averaging 20 hours a day, but I don't have to stick to the exact time every single day.

Melanie Avalon
It's interesting because I remember having that conversation with you where you were thinking about, I think it was offline too, I think, when you were thinking about maybe not tracking it as much anymore. I think it was not on the podcast.

Barry Conrad
It wasn't. I was walking in Bondi, I think, and I was talking about it.

And also, even you say, like, you kind of just go, don't you say, Mel, like, I just kind of eat at night, and I know I'm always going to average, you know, there's only so long I can eat.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I remember, yeah, I remember having that conversation. Okay, this is really ironic for my answer because it's like similar but kind of the opposite. I think my trajectory has been with fasting. Yeah, now it's been, you know, how many years? I think I started fasting in 2012. So it's been like 15, wait, I can't do math, 15, 16 years almost. I know, like I feel intuitively, this is how it's similar, like I feel intuitively that one meal a day evening protocol is what works the best for me. Like it's just really what works for me, like it works for me.

And still, I've had for the longest time, like this feeling that, well, maybe it's not sustainable or like I need to be doing a different fasting pattern because maybe I should try ADF or maybe I should try eating earlier in the day or maybe I should, I don't know, like that I shouldn't be doing this high protein one meal a day thing forever. And I'm not saying that I won't change or won't do it forever. But I think I finally have gotten to the point and there wasn't like a specific moment where it happened. Although meeting you has been actually really helpful because you eat very similar as far as like the really high protein and the one meal a day. And then the one meal a day is sometimes at night, although you, like you're just talking about, you have it at different times. But you're a really good example of how that really can work and you can be really high performing and you can maintain muscle. Like you look amazing. So clearly all these concerns about muscle and only eating in a window is a problem. I mean, you're like an example of that. That's just not necessarily the case. So I think getting to co-host with you has made me feel a lot more confident about like just doing what I know works for me and keep doing it. And I don't have any intention of changing it. I don't feel tempted to change it. I will if that comes up, but I don't think I don't think it will. So yeah, it's interesting because it's like not that I'm less flexible, but I don't feel like I need to change it per se, like I was wondering before.

Barry Conrad
Wow. I had no idea you felt like that. Interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It's always like, maybe I should be, I think really it's like, maybe I should be eating earlier or why?

Just because even though I talk about it so much and I've done a lot of the research, there's just this pervasive idea that you need to be eating earlier for like the ultimate metabolic health or longevity or whatever, even though I've seen a lot of stuff to the contrary. So.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And Mel, don't you reckon as well, because you, even when you do your bloods and whatnot, they're always so great. So it's like the lab work supports what you're doing. And then it's so interesting that you can still sometimes have those thoughts come in, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. One more question.

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So, what is something about prepping for the episodes that listeners would never guess?

Melanie Avalon
Although now I'm thinking, and this actually relates to the answer, so it's perfect. Now I'm thinking the person who reads it a different order would work better because I just talk, so it would make more sense for you to talk, but the irony is this is part of my answer, which is that, which is that, listeners, you have no idea how much time I spend, I mean, it's not like a horrible amount of time, but, and this is, this is the way it's been since the beginning of the show, which was however many years ago, seven years ago, eight years ago.

I put a lot of thought, so I, like, I picked the, like the preparation, I picked the questions and then it's like a puzzle each week because there's so many different pieces that you have to figure out. You got to figure out the back and forth, like who asked what question so that the answer flow is like natural going back and forth, which like I said, I'm realizing in real time, I didn't think this through correctly for this episode. So it's that it's also like who, and this has been more or less has been a, actually, so with each co-host, they've had their unique strengths and like topics that they feel more confident talking about. So kind of making the answer, the lineup so that they get to lead off, like so that the person who is like most appropriate to answer it, like leads off with answering it, but then you have to be able to rotate back and forth. And sometimes like I have too many very questions, not enough Melanie questions or too many Melanie, not enough Barry. And then I've got to tie it in with the studies and then the restaurant at the end. So it's just kind of funny how much like time I do, like creating this puzzle. And then also listeners might like to know that we have this massive document of listener questions from the beginning, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of questions. So don't be surprised if we answer your question from like 2017, it could still happen. Sometimes I'm like looking for a specific topic. So I'll like go back in the archives of questions. So my weekly puzzle.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure I can speak for all the listeners when I say that myself as well, appreciate all the time that you put into it, Mel. So because listeners, I will then go to this massive document and then see all the questions and then that's where we start, I guess, preparing like our thoughts and one thing I guess people may not know like for myself, you know, yes, I don't come up with the questions, but I do put a lot of time and thought and intention and work into, into them too. And, and you know, because the show flows so naturally and Mel and I bounce of each other so easily, people might assume, Oh, we're just like showing up and talking and yeah, we do have a great rapport and we can talk, but you know, the truth is as well, like we have fun and also it's work, it's, it's effort. So something I really care about.

That's why I do it. So my process always starts when a listener question comes in, I sit with it. First, I let it live in the back of my mind for a bit. I like to go for a walk and when during those walks, I'll pull up my phone and record voice notes actually first.

Melanie Avalon
I didn't know that.

Barry Conrad
I'll sort of just see what comes out and all cuz like to go for long walks to sort of set my mind for the day or just to take a break and i'll think out loud first and explore different angles then. When i get home that's when the research part starts to me based on my notes and then.

So something i said on the walk needs a bit more science behind it or clear explanation or deeper understanding for example i'll sit down and and really look into it properly and. You know i care about accuracy because you know i'm new coming to the show as well and also for the sake of everyone tuning in we gotta give people grounded information that they can trust so i do that i'll cross check things you know revisit studies and whatnot and then i leave it i don't overwork it i don't scripted anything i let my brain sleep on it.

The next morning or usually would be like maybe the morning of recording day i'll revisit everything again with fresh eyes and thoughts and then. Sometimes new thoughts will come in and i'll rewrite something and sometimes i'll leave it as is but yeah that's sort of like my.

My process but yeah I really really really enjoy the preparation part of it a lot I geek out over I guess it's the actor side of like script analysis and stuff like that I just love there's no questions so exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I did not know that. I had no idea.

That's so amazing and something I will say, I really, really appreciate all the time and energy that you bring to the show and the preparation that you do. It really, really shows and I really, really, really appreciate it so much.

Barry Conrad
Thanks.

Melanie Avalon
So, all right. Well, listeners, we hope you enjoyed this anniversary part one. And shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment at an anniversary-worthy restaurant?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Can't wait.

Melanie Avalon
This is just like the obvious. OK, well, there were a few that were obvious, but we'd already done them.

This was the most obvious one. And the reason it's not the perfect restaurant is because I don't know necessarily that the food is like, you know, the most amazing thing. Have we done? Because I'm going to give two answers, but I'm not going to do one of them because we can't actually look at the menu anyways. We've talked about Victoria and Albert's, right? But we haven't actually, or have we done it?

Barry Conrad
I don't know if we've done it. I don't know if we've done it. Maybe we talked about it.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I would pick Victoria and Albert's, which is the, I think it's the only AAA restaurant in Florida that gets that award all the time, and it just got its first Michelin star, and it's at the Grand Floridian. I have never been, but apparently it's just like the most amazing thing, but it is a set price menu.

So that's what I probably would pick. However, this is a more approachable menu we can look through, and it's so magical. So I am voting for...

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to see it in suspense.

Melanie Avalon
and I've eaten at this restaurant two or three times.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. So you can vouch vouch.

Melanie Avalon
I can vouch for the vibe. It is Cinderella's Royal Table. It's the restaurant inside of the Magic Kingdom Castle. Did you know there was a restaurant inside of there?

Barry Conrad
I had no idea. No idea. Okay, I'm pulling it up right now. Wow. That looks like a... It looks like a set.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So basically, and so to clarify, this is inside of the Magic Kingdom castle, which is Cinderella's castle, not Sleeping Beauty castle at Disneyland.

So, but like the castle that people think of with Disney World, there's actually a rush, a restaurant inside of it. It's like you're inside of Cinderella's castle. Cinderella is there. I think Cinderella takes you to your, she's definitely like there. She like meets you. I'm trying to remember if she like takes you to your table. I think she did at least one time when I was there. I don't know if she does now, but she comes around as well. And then it's like a steakhouse, but there are windows. And so like when the fireworks go off, you can see fireworks and you're in Cinderella's castle. So like how perfect is that for an anniversary?

Barry Conrad
That actually is perfect. Some of the food's popping up already. Okay, I need to see this menu.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they do have a... Oh, it's a set price menu, but there are choices. Set price menus. Okay. This one I think I can make work.

But basically, so there's for the... This is the fairy tale dining dinner pricing. So 89 per adult for set price or 54 per child. So first you get a appetizer of the court. Oh, this actually works for me. I know what I'm getting.

Barry Conrad
I know what I'm getting to. What are you gonna get? What are you gonna get?

Melanie Avalon
There's actually two things I like, but I am definitely going for the chilled jumbo shrimp and very, do we, okay, third time's the charm. Do we remember the difference between shrimp and prawns? I think I do.

Barry Conrad
Well, that prawns is just basically the right way to say it and shrimps the wrong way to say it. If it's in England and Australia, it's usually prawns, and if it's in America, it's usually...

Melanie Avalon
It was more nuanced. And I got it this time. So it was in the U.S., it's shrimp and we call it shrimp. In the U.K.

Barry Conrad
It's prons, and you call it.

Melanie Avalon
Because the restaurant that we did, because it got even more confusing, because in the UK versus Australia, one, they call it prawns and both, but I think in Australia it actually is prawns, and then in the UK it's often shrimp. So to confirm, yes, yes, that was correct. So USA, shrimp, typically shrimp, UK, called prawns, but usually shrimp, Australia, prawn, actually a prawn. We got it.

So yes, I am getting the chill jumbo shrimp, comes with avocado mousse, Fresno peppers, and tomato horseradish vinaigrette, and I will get all of that on the side. How about you? I think I know what you're getting.

Barry Conrad
Well, you're right in thinking I'll get the pork belly, but I'm also going to get the chilled Joe Murchcrum because it looks really good. And the crispy pork belly in brackets, it says party exclusive.

It comes with sweet potato puree, jacama slaw, chestnuts, and apple cranberry glaze. Yum.

Melanie Avalon
Tacoma. That's something else I like about us is that we can't pronounce anything. It's jicama, I think. I could be wrong, but the only reason I'm only correcting because I think it's like people might actually be like, jicama.

It might be in Australia. Who knows? You know what we should do? We should get three. We should get three orders so then we can get more food. Do you want to do that? So we could get like two shrimps and then the pork belly. Sounds great. So entree time.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how big, okay, you've eaten here before, right? So how big are there?

Melanie Avalon
a long time ago. I was probably on the kids menu at the time.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how big their portions are.

Melanie Avalon
Well, this is America, but there is also like shrinkflation happening. So in general, I have heard, I have like heard that. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
That's so, that's a funny term, shrinkflation.

Melanie Avalon
I'm between the filet and the lamb, but I think I'll get the grilled filet mignon, which comes with olive oil, whipped potatoes, roasted seasonal vegetables, garlic butter. I will get... I'll see if they can just give me like steamed spinach.

If not, they can just put everything on the side and I will get it as rare as they will give it to me.

Barry Conrad
Nice, and I'll get the roasted lamb chops. They come with potato pavé, asparagus, and honey balsamic glaze. I love chop so much, Mel, like I love lamb so much.

Melanie Avalon
Really? So do you want to get two orders of that?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I just don't want them to be like two little itty bitty chops, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And I want to taste, so let's get two lamb. And then the finale, this is the dessert.

Barry Conrad
the big finale, what is jumping out at you?

Melanie Avalon
nothing obviously. And it's a set price menu.

I wonder if they would bring me, like if they would bring me more shrimp. I feel like it's Disney. I feel like they would. That is something about, so something about Disney, they are insanely amazing about like accommodating dietary preferences and things like that. So I think I probably could say, you know, I can't have, I can't have sugar. So may I get some shrimp for dessert?

Barry Conrad
I'm sure they'll say yes.

Melanie Avalon
What would you get? I know what you would get. Maybe.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll get it's called the clock strikes 12. And it's chocolate ganache tart topped with salted caramel coffee moose delicious.

But then I'll also kind of feel like having the cheesecake. So maybe like to see got three, and I'm getting shrimp. So the jack and Gus

Melanie Avalon
Oh, are those the mice? I think those are the mice from Cinderella. I think Gus is, so I'm assuming. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
So Jack and Gus cheesecake and it's vanilla cheesecake with fresh fruit and garnishes. Yeah, there you go. So I've got the cheesecake and the chocolate ganache tart. It sounds pretty good to me.

Melanie Avalon
And then let's see, oh, they have their specialty cocktails. Oh, they have a celebration champagne flight. Too bad I don't really like champagne.

Barry Conrad
I'm getting that. I have to get it for the table. You know how I say it's for the table.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, for the table. That's perfect.

Then you get to have all of it. It's a, let's see, it's a blend. Let's see, a flight using the Enchante Champagne. Enchante, yeah. A blend of Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Pinot, Moonnay, sold exclusively at Walt Disney World. Oh, that's cool.

Barry Conrad
That is cool. So the celebration champion fly and then I have to go with the sunset margarita cuz I love me margarita So that's happening to any of these wines Getting the tick of approval mail

Melanie Avalon
The problem is, this is Disney, so it's going to be harder for me to, I can't bring a bottle of wine because you can't bring alcohol into the park, so I can't do that. So I literally have to sneak in my wine.

Good thing I'm good at that, but I'll make it work. You don't worry about me, I'll figure it out.

Barry Conrad
So two things I need to see you use your powers in the front row and then I need to see

Melanie Avalon
Sneaking and wine situation It's it's crazy. Very how much I'm like fine-tuning my skills with that. It's yeah, really? I've only gotten caught once

Barry Conrad
It's like a spy, you know, a wine spy.

Melanie Avalon
All I know is if you're super worried about it being a problem, you got to go under the clothes. Otherwise, you can try with the purse.

Barry Conrad
Purse? There's got to be a small bottle.

Melanie Avalon
I've like cut a contraption into my purse that can actually hold a decent amount.

Barry Conrad
Wow. See, so many things. I can't wait. It's gonna be great.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I should have kept going down. They have allergy friendly appetizers. So they say like what they can make. So they basically, they list the food and then they put who it's safe for. So like the chilled jumbo shrimp is safe for gluten, wheat allergies, egg allergies, fish allergies, peanut, tree nuts, or soy allergies.

Barry Conrad
I think that's actually really good and I think this is probably the first menu I've seen on the show that actually lists the smell from memory.

Melanie Avalon
all of the Disney restaurants, they should have this somewhere. It's normally on a different section, but they've put it on with the main thing. I'm just confirming that, yeah, okay, that's right.

Yeah. I was trying to make sure that they're not saying that's what it contains, that's who it's for, and that's who it's for. A lot of this stuff is gluten-free, but they make it gluten-free, I think. I think they're saying they can make it gluten-free. They probably adjust it.

Barry Conrad
Do you like eating gluten-free? Do you prefer eating gluten-free, or?

Melanie Avalon
Um, I mean, it's all the food I eat. So it kind of just like, I don't know. I don't even know, you know, it's hard to answer because like I, it's, it's the food I'd be eating and I would love the gluten food. Like it would taste amazing.

It would just wreck me and be like a drug in my body. Barry sent me a picture of fairy bread, which I, you know, isn't it weird that we don't have that here? It does not seem like such a, but probably not sweet enough, right? Cause isn't it just like bread and, and sprinkles and butter.

Barry Conrad
Exactly, but it's yeah, it's not for me. I don't like it, but I thought that you might like it

Melanie Avalon
I love the vibe of it. Does it have sugar and cinnamon on it, or is it just?

Barry Conrad
Well, the sprinkles are super sugary, but it doesn't have extra granulated sugar as well.

Melanie Avalon
Because I feel like the perfect manifestation for childhood was my mom used to make like cinnamon sugar bread. Is that a thing in Australia?

Barry Conrad
It sounds like it needs to be a thing in the apartment right now, so I can try it.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Well, what I'm saying, we should like you should we should put it together like we should make the fairy bread. So basically, you just take the bread, you toast it with butter and you put like cinnamon and sugar on it. It's so good.

And if it had it had its sprinkles on it, then it would just be like pure magical.

Barry Conrad
Wow, and you can watch me try it.

Melanie Avalon
yeah okay so well this was so amazing happy anniversary it was so fun oh wait hey the kids get they get short ribs on their menu

Barry Conrad
I like that. That caught your eye. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to ask for that for dessert. Can I have like some plain short ribs from the kids menu for my dessert?

Barry Conrad
It's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
They're so good. The sword in the sweet, a white chocolate sword and a chocolate and marshmallow mousse stone atop a cocoa soil. That sounds so cute. Oh my goodness. That's in the kid's menu. The kid's dessert.

Okay. Well, this has been absolutely amazing. Listeners, we hope you enjoyed spending this time with us and thank you just for spending so much time with us this past year and beyond that. And like I said, we would love, we love a listener questions. You can email them to questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and you can submit questions there. And the show notes will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 456. And that will have links to everything that we talked about. Definitely check it out. You can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad, the place that we met, Instagram. And the show is I have podcast. And also please feel free to share stuff on Instagram because we would love to reshare it. So Barry, anything from you before we go?

Barry Conrad
Listeners, we appreciate every single one of you for tuning in. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for spending this time with us, and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Bye!

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Welcome to Episode 455 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

SHOW NOTES

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LINKS 

Featured Restaurant: ⁠Fenchurch Restaurant⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

STUDIES

⁠Breaking the fast: Meal patterns and beliefs about healthy eating style are associated with adherence to intermittent fasting diets⁠ 

⁠⁠If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 455 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 455 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, happy first episode of 2026.

Barry Conrad
Wild. It's so crazy. Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. This is a huge, huge episode. That's an amazing moment. I can't believe it's the new year. Crazy.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I can't believe 2026. Oh my goodness.

Barry Conrad
Far out. I know. How do you feel about January in general? Do you feel like it's a depressing month for you, or do you feel like it's an exciting month for you?

Some people are like, oh, it's another year, and some people are like, it's another year. So which one are you?

Melanie Avalon
So I've actually thought about this in that it's changed for me because growing up, January made me sad because it meant I felt like the whole year, like when you're a kid, I'm like looking forward to Christmas and then there's like, you know, like the Halloween season and the Thanksgiving season and the Christmas season and then it's like January, now we just have to wait a whole other year for, we know we have to wait for summer and then we have to wait for the holidays. But now as an adult, life is just so fun all the time and so amazing and the holiday season is the busiest for work.

So it's amazing. It also kind of wipes me out. So January is kind of like, huh, I can like breathe for a second, but it's still cold. So yeah, I love January. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Well we'll see because you don't apparently over here january will not so much January february march ish you're supposed to take a vacation somewhere sunny up because it's really really really really really cold in new york how does it get that bad in atlanta.

Melanie Avalon
No, it never gets bad here. I mean, it'll get, the coldest, it'll get like maybe like 19 degrees if there's like a really cold spell. That's nothing. Well, 19 is very cold.

Barry Conrad
Oh yeah, sorry, it's not 19 Celsius, it's...

Melanie Avalon
19 Fahrenheit.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Okay. That is not a thing at all. That's a lot.

Melanie Avalon
But it's normally like in the 30s, I feel.

Barry Conrad
I do like January because I like new beginnings are like a clean slate new chapter because it gives me a sense of anticipation and that there's new possibilities new breakthroughs to be had, you know, new more potential. That's exciting to me.

I love that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love it. I just I don't have one. I don't do like one like a new year. What is it New Year's resolutions? I don't really do that because I always have like a million resolutions going on.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I don't, I don't do resolutions anymore as well. I feel like it's just, it's a constant thing, right?

You constantly have goals and new things that you want to implement like all year. I mean, at least I do.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And then things like, here's what it is. If it's something that I would want to do all year, like a health thing, like a typical New Year's resolution, I would just want to do that indefinitely. So why would it be like for one year?

But then if it's something like a project, like I want to do this one thing, what are the, like, that, that has its own timeline relevant to itself. Like all the projects have their own timelines and they're starting at different times, ending at different times. So I mean, I support New Year's resolutions. I don't want to be like a Debbie Downer, but I don't do like one big resolution.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, same. Also, on that, there is something that I want to do in 2026 that I've decided I want to give a go. Do a half marathon.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa. Okay. Whoa. Whoa. Okay.

So, um, okay. So questions, questions, Barry. So you know what I'm thinking about? Thinking about how last episode you were saying that you talk about your diet and then the girls are like, you know, that's not so good for you. Um, how do you feel about marathons not being the best?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I feel like you're asking me, but you really tell me.

Melanie Avalon
How do you feel about the physiological effect of marathons on the human body?

Barry Conrad
I purposely like, I'm not going to do a marathon, but I was inspired to, especially after, you know, this is a while back now, but the lung situation has sort of put me off like running long distances. So I want to prove to myself that I can do at least a half.

I think that's more of a saying thing to try, you know, it's like not as crazy. It's still pretty far and long, but I started actually training. I went for my first run this week, actually, actually last weekend, I should say it wasn't long, but I actually was fine. So I reckon I'm going to smash it.

Melanie Avalon
You know what I feel like? Okay, I have quite a few thoughts. Thought one, I feel like this is gonna be another Barry Conrad thing where you'll just do it. You're just gonna be able to do it.

Barry Conrad
Would he be able to do it? What do you mean?

Melanie Avalon
Just like show up and run it.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean? Just like not trying? I have to try and I can't.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like you do a lot in life where it's like you just do it, you know, like, I'm gonna do this now and then you do it. And I will say I support people doing marathons with caveats. For a lot of people, it's like what they love, like it's a passion for them, they, you know, it's something really personal to them. I completely support that.

I also support just being aware of the effects of a full marathon on the body. And I think like Mark Sisson in his book, Born to Walk, I'm paraphrasing, which by the way, I met him finally, I met him at the Unimonia conference, I have to tell you about that. I think he says like, he had a protocol, it was like, do a marathon and never do it again or do it if you really want to do it, but don't keep doing it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think a lot. Well, I think, okay, because when I went to DC to support runners and stuff out there, you hear, you get those two things.

You get the one group of people who marathons their thing, like to do like several a year, which is just crazy to me how hard it is in your body. And then some who just want to go, yay. I want to try doing this thing and they just do one. That's it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah.

Barry Conrad
So I'll do a half and that's it. Well, I just, I feel like it'd be more like a, a goal for me in light of what happened and to say, yeah, I can do, I can run, I can do it.

I don't need to be a nonrunner just because of this thing that happened to me. And then after that, I can just leave it alone.

Melanie Avalon
I think that's amazing. I really do. Awesome. Keep us updated. When would you run it?

Barry Conrad
So it'll be like one of the New York marathons. So it'll be one of the New York runs. So to be, I think it's early next year. So I'm early this year, I should say 2026. So I will keep you posted for sure.

But Mel, I need to hear all about this conference, this convention.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Yeah, so we're recording a bit in the past and I just got back from the Unimonia conference and oh yeah, it was really fun. I met so many people, I met so many people and brands and people, people, like guests on the show that you guys have heard about. I got to hang out with friends, so let's see.

Well, I saw Dave Asprey, of course, we had matching glasses. I finally met Mark Sisson in real life and that was such a moment for me because I've had him on the show multiple times. He's one of the three, like there's three people who really inspired me for my current trajectory in life and that's Rob Wolf and Dave Asprey and Mark Sisson and I hadn't met, Mark Sisson was the only person I hadn't, well, I haven't met Rob in person but I feel like I know him better. I had not met Mark in person and I like went up to him at the booth and it's so funny. He was, so he, Barry, do you know what he looks like? Tell me. He is so fit, so fit, it is insane and he is how old? He's 72.

Barry Conrad
That is a ripped 72 year old man, like very, very impressed.

Melanie Avalon
But it's so funny because he looks so young, but talking to him, I was like, oh, he is kind of like a granddad situation because I had my glasses on inside, my hyperlight, which are like, I'll talk about those at another time. They're amazing.

They're blue light blocking, but they actually have C60, which is a supplement I've talked about as a supplement. They put this into the glasses and it actually transforms light into a beneficial light for the body. They're a big company in Europe. They're coming to the US. In any case, they had sent me three pairs of the glasses to wear around the conference. I was wearing one of the pairs inside and it was the one where you actually can't see your eyes. They're made for outdoors. He was like, take your glasses off. He made me take them off, kind of like a grandfather would be. I was like, no, I was like, the lighting in here is bad. I want to keep them on. He was like, I got to see your eyes. He made me take them off.

Barry Conrad
That's really granddaddy for sure. That's really funny though.

Melanie Avalon
Isn't it? And then we were taking the pictures and he's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, you have to take one without the glasses. Yeah. So that was absolutely amazing.

I actually didn't go to any of the speakers. I just went around the expo both days and then went out at night. But I met so like sunlight and saunas, of course. Oh, Crunchy, the makeup brand I talk about all the time, they were there and they have that was so exciting because I've had the founder on my show and they just randomly went because they're in Florida locally. So they've never been to like a biohacking type thing. So that was amazing to meet them in person.

I met, let's see, so upcoming podcast interviews I booked, I met this company called Neuropod. They make a big old nerve simulation device for your ears and they, they gave me one to take home. So I'm really excited to try that. I met with Essentia Mattress, which I have been trying to get them on the show for years, years, years, years, because I think they probably make the perfect mattress. Like literally, how do you feel about Mattress's barrier? Are you like a mattress snob? Like, do you have a?

Barry Conrad
It's got to be a good bed because sleep is king. Like if you don't sleep comfortably, then what are we doing? So yes.

Melanie Avalon
so important. And listeners know about my current mattress, which is the GOAT mattress. You probably remember that story, right? Yeah.

But this Asenjiya mattress, he's been formulating it for like decades and it does so many things. Like it's cooling, helps with like EMF protection, recovery. And it feels amazing. So they're gonna come on the show and they're gonna send me a mattress. I'm so excited.

Barry Conrad
That's so exciting. That's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
But actually Barry you so just a few funny things about it. I actually almost left the second day Because I was so wiped out the first day I don't know why but I really was and I was really stressed because this time of the year This isn't the past right now But it's like the busiest time with Black Friday coming up in Thanksgiving And I was like I could like just sneak home tomorrow and have like a whole extra day to catch up on work So that night I rescheduled my flight canceled my hotel for the next day I was gonna leave and then I woke up and I was like I want to stay so then I like changed it all back And I stayed

Barry Conrad
That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
I was gonna say I did speaking of wine. I don't know if we were talking about wine, but you and I were before you probably don't like ever bring wine when you travel. Do you?

Barry Conrad
No. I mean, I know that... Well, I don't... Do you travel with one, though? Let's fly with one.

Melanie Avalon
I do, in my packed luggage. So I bought four bottles of my own wine because you would think these conferences would have, I don't know, options, but they really don't.

So I stocked myself up and I brought my wine to everything. I went to one party though and they actually had all dried from wine. So I drink that there.

Barry Conrad
I'm so impressed now that you have never met again anyone that's trial like going to a dinner going to a show sneaking in a one or taking one is one thing but traveling that is next level. That's like, wow, that's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
I went to so many bars and drink situations. I forget, have you been to West Palm Beach before?

Barry Conrad
I really want to go, but I have not, sadly.

Melanie Avalon
So there's the, you would love, there's this hotel called the Breakers and it's like old school Hollywood glamour, like Hollywood Tower Hotel feeling and we went to the bar there and I brought my own wine. Like I drank my own wine everywhere.

Friends, if you're into the whole like biohacking stuff, go to Unimonia. There are so many incredible guests. So like Cynthia was speaking, Huberman was speaking, Mark Hyman, Dan Buettner, Rich Roll. I did want to go to Rich Roll and I didn't see him, you know, obviously like Dave Asprey like all the people are there. You can like go to the talks, you can go to this expo, try all these products, meet all these brands. It's, we got to go to one together someday, Mary.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, seriously, we know that I'm here. I would love, absolutely love to do that. We've got to do it for sure. Imagine how much fun we're going to have too.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, it's exhausting, but it's so fun. And it's just, you meet, okay, so A, you meet everybody you know. I'm like so many friends, but then you meet so many new people. So it's like stimulation overload of like all the people, but highly recommend.

Barry Conrad
What drew you to Mark Sisson in the first place? Was there a specific book that he wrote?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so he used to have a blog, does he still have it? I don't know, called Mark's Daily Apple. And it was kind of like the OG paleo blog. He called it primal. He came up with a primal diet, but like paleo primal. And then he had, okay, oh, he did the he did the primal blueprint, which kind of like made the primal paleo diet pretty popular. But he has so many books. But back in the day, I used to be always reading, I'd be like listening to Rob Wolf's podcast, I read the paleo solution, and I'd be reading Mark's Daily Apple.

Actually, he, I think he had something on intermittent fasting. He had he had content on it back on the back in the day that made intermittent fasting more popular as well.

Barry Conrad
And he did the cuter reset as well, right, so he's done quite a few.

Melanie Avalon
And his co-author is Brad Kearns who, shout out to Brad, one of my favorite humans in the entire world, a dear, dear friend. But now Mark's main focus is, I asked him if he was going to write another book.

He said he's like kind of done with books, but he would like to write a book for Paluba, which we've talked about Paluba. We've had him on the show for that and they make, you know, the barefoot type shoe. So he might do something about, about that. I think he was there. His, his booth was a Paluba booth.

Barry Conrad
Really? Yeah. That's when it fits your foot and maximizes what your toes are supposed to be doing rather than your feet being squeezed into shoes and changing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And oh, oh, shout out to you. Because if listeners listen to the biohacking podcast, I did, I paled around a lot with Ian Clark from Activation, who I've had on that show. And he's kind of like Dumbledore in real life. I love him.

So he's amazing. And then I hung out with Dave Rabin from Apollo Neuro and Barry, we must go.

Barry Conrad
We'll make something happen for short. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
I was telling my friend when I was debating about leaving, I was like, I've never left a conference early before, but I'm, I was just wiped out.

Barry Conrad
You were saying even yesterday or the day before that you really... traveling really wipes you out, doesn't it?

Melanie Avalon
It does. It's getting way better.

Barry Conrad
Is it the flying part like an isolation like the flying or is it like getting to the airport? Is it like what's the main thing that really wipes you out from it?

Melanie Avalon
It's getting all of my stuff that I need to sustain my life and feel happy and good into a suitcase across the country or on a plane. I mean, this wasn't across the country, but onto the plane, into the hotel.

It's getting my life and moving a miniature version of it, a slice of it, into a hotel room, which I did realize game changer. I think I'm only going to stay at a residence in Marriott, which is the suites where you have a kitchen. That's a game changer.

Barry Conrad
Of course, of course, because then you can prepare food, right, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's like the Airbnb because you have a kitchen, but it's like room service because it's a hotel. So I think I'm, if I think if I just stay at Suites like that from now on, I might be okay.

Barry Conrad
So, okay, question. If you could only take five things on a flight, I wouldn't go. on a trip, what would you take?

If you had to, had to, had to. Like, if you absolutely had to. Like, you could take all your clothes and shoes. Oh, like, if we make clothes and shoes. You could take all your clothes and shoes. It's more like five... Actually, no, let's make that harder. You can take all your clothes and shoes and make them and stuff or whatever, but three, like, biohacking type things that you really like and that you feel like you... Makes your traveling experience better. What would you choose and why?

Melanie Avalon
So does this include, do I get to bring like my supplements and stuff like that?

Barry Conrad
So that would be one of the three.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, Perry.

Barry Conrad
Let's supplement. That could be class class one thing like

Melanie Avalon
As one, okay, so supplements.

Barry Conrad
That's not so bad because someone says actually quite a lot.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that does cover actually a lot of it. My blue light blocking glasses. Last time I forgot them. I don't know how, but I did and I literally had to order some from Amazon because I need them that much.

Supplements.

Barry Conrad
blue light blocking glasses.

Melanie Avalon
So supplements includes my like, okay, that includes like my NAD patches and glutathione and stuff like that. Right. Okay. I I'm too embarrassed to say the third one. Say it. I don't think I can. Okay. And I won't do that.

Cause I could, um, let me think. Do you, what would your, well, you don't really, do you have three?

Barry Conrad
No, like, no, where are you? This is you. You have to choose it. Whatever it is.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I do have like a okay, so I like getting like colonics when I travel if things are which actually this relates to the first question today, I would bring my like my like colonic bucket thing, just in case I'm like stopped up and I can like fix that. Wow.

Yeah, it's like a whole system that I can fit in my Oh, wait, I forgot about my organic wine though.

Barry Conrad
Yes, I mean, the wine is... That's a biggie because you go to events and parties and stuff and you're not going to want to rely on their choices or not drink, right?

Melanie Avalon
So I might actually have to do, I might take out the Klonik bucket, organic wine supplements and blue light blocking glasses.

Barry Conrad
Wow, there you go. Okay. That's not so bad.

Melanie Avalon
You can't feel the anxiety in my body right now.

Barry Conrad
Because the supplements wouldn't take up that much room.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, Barry, Barry. This is part of the reason it's so stressful. They take up like half my suitcase. How? How? What do you mean? I have a lot of supplements.

Barry Conrad
Okay, next time you travel, okay, you don't have to do this, but if you want to, you take a photo. I want to see how much room it takes up.

Melanie Avalon
Shout out to Chris Gethin, we've talked about this. He brings a whole other suitcase for his supplements.

Barry Conrad
a mini one.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think so.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that's, I mean, you know what, you got to do it, you got to do whatever makes you feel good and, you know, for you to get through the day and, and to sleep well and to function at your best.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I will say now that we're out of the you can only pick three things game. A game changer that a friend told me that I have since integrated is bringing silk pillowcases.

So like bringing my blissy silk pillowcases game changer because then it makes your pillow cooler makes your your pillow more comfortable. So yes.

Barry Conrad
I love silk pillowcases by the way, I totally get that.

Melanie Avalon
So shall we talk about some intermittent fasting stuff? Let's do it. So I have a study. I am so excited about this study berry. Are you ready?

Barry Conrad
I'm ready for it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so this study is called Breaking the Fast, Meal Patterns and Beliefs about Healthy Eating Style are associated with adherence to intermittent fasting diets. It was published in Appetite in 2019.

And so the purpose of this study was the researchers were saying that, and we talked about this last episode, but there's this whole idea out there that eating three meals a day is healthy and that skipping meals is problematic for health. So they wanted to see how this actually affected people doing intermittent fasting or not, like the beliefs surrounding things. So they had 312 people talk about their experience of intermittent fasting and their beliefs about healthy meals and snack frequency, and also their non-fasting days and their fasting day eating patterns. And they put them into current fasters and former fasters. And the former fasters were essentially people who had tried fasting but quit. And then the current ones were ones that were still doing it. So their theory was the people who were former, like they could see what sort of belief systems led people to quit intermittent fasting or to keep doing intermittent fasting. And they looked at some very specific things. So let's see if you can guess, you know, I like guessing games. So former, okay, so former fasters versus current fasters. What do you think they felt about eating three meals a day and snacks?

Barry Conrad
What do the former fastest think?

Melanie Avalon
So again, former fasters, that's going to be the category of people who quit fasting and then current are the ones keep doing it. So how do you think they felt in general about three meals a day?

Like whether it's healthy, whether it's not healthy?

Barry Conrad
I think that the formal fast is because they've quit fasting. I think that they think it's healthy and more sustainable for them.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So the former ones were more likely to believe that it's healthy to eat three meals a day with several snacks.

And okay, so this is fascinating. So when they were actually fasting, both the current fasteners and when the former fasteners were fasting, when do you think they were more likely to eat? And like what? So like what meals, what snacks? The win question though.

Barry Conrad
The when, okay. I would say afternoon, performer, performer. How about for current, for current, I would say more evening.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so you're really close. So former, they were more likely to eat breakfast, a mid-morning snack, a lunch, and a mid-afternoon snack. So they basically, that's the order that they listed in. So I guess they ate breakfast and then they had like a snack and then they had lunch and they had another snack and that was like their window.

These are the people who like ended up quitting intermittent fasting. The current fasteners, the ones still doing it, they tended to have dinner and a late evening snack.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, yep.

Melanie Avalon
so late night eaters. And then here are just some other things.

So former fasters, they were more likely to be concerned about the negative consequences of missing a meal. They were more likely to, this is big, we've talked about this before, to eat an anticipation of future hunger. And one other thing, but just to pause on that for a second. So basically, the ones that ended up quitting fasting were ones that were anticipating being hungry and would eat more, like an anticipation. Isn't that so interesting? And it's interesting because you would be doing that to keep doing your pattern adequately, but it seems like it had a non-sustainable effect. It made them not keep up with fasting.

Barry Conrad
It's like eating for future hunger, which is like, why do that? It's interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Although I definitely remember doing that. Did you ever do that? I remember doing that when I first started fasting.

Barry Conrad
I definitely, I think I definitely ate more than I probably will definitely ate more than I do now. Like maybe I thought, Oh, I've got to just eat, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And then this is one of my favorites. So the former fasters, they were more likely to prioritize fullness over taste when selecting food.

So when they were picking their meals, rather than eating what they wanted to eat for the taste, they would pick things that they thought would keep them full longer. And so the researchers were saying that that might have had an effect on the sustainability of the diet because they weren't happy with what they were eating.

Barry Conrad
So what kind of foods do they does it say in the study what sort of foods they were more attracted to then.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know if they said that just said they pick stuff that they thought would keep them fuller

Barry Conrad
That's so interesting to me because you want wouldn't you want to be eating things that you enjoy and look forward to what you want actually want to eat, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I know. And it's so interesting because it speaks to what we've talked about a lot, which is the importance of really enjoying your food.

And we talked about the hedonic pleasure versus I don't know, we talked about the role of pleasure in eating and how it doesn't have to be this negative thing that people associate it with. So they were basically saying that depending on what your mindset is surrounding all of this, following an IF diet can lead to feelings of missing out on the pleasure of eating or missing out on eating with family at mealtimes or feeling that fasting is otherwise disruptive to your schedule. And if so, it just makes it a lot less sustainable. So what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
It's a really interesting study meal. I think that what I keep thinking about when I hear this is the former fastest, a just didn't have a lot of fun doing it, you know, didn't really enjoy the process and it's almost like once that clock hit, you know, end of fast, just sort of gorge out on really, really filling food just to feel full and then sleep and go to the next day and you know, which is not really the point, it's about still eating nutritionally dense foods that you actually enjoy and it's about that feast and enjoying it, not enduring it.

You don't know what I mean? So that, so that's really stood out to me and it's not surprising at all based on what you shared that they quit because who, who, I would want to do that. I'd want to enjoy it. And, and also what was interesting to me was when you shared what with the when I actually don't, I probably they're definitely are people who for sure have a morning window for me personally. I think, I think an evening window maybe is better, well, personally speaking, because it's more social. You can also have like a little snack while you watch some TV and wind down. Like it's more like a winding down thing. Maybe that's a bit more sustainable for a lot of people. I'm guessing it is for me anyway, in that way. So yeah, it's interesting that the former fast is more morning slash afternoon. Yeah. What do you think about that?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's so interesting. I feel like this study touched on all the things we talk about all the time. I really do agree.

At least for me, having an eating window, just so much easier, easily aligns up with things. Also, since I'm such a wine drinker, and I don't like, I do not like day drinking, so that's kind of out the window doing an earlier window for me. It's really interesting though, just how, especially with, I guess this was 2019, so this was a while ago, but it's interesting that just how much the idea, the zeitgeist of you need to eat three meals a day, how much that affects whether or not people can sustain fasting.

Barry Conrad
And even eating the three meals within the fasted, um, in the any winner as well, you know, why is that it's such a embedded.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like the snacking aspect like the multiple like they gotta eat and then snack and then eat and then snack

Barry Conrad
I have done that like, you know, on, on days where just like my schedules has had to do that, but I just prefer to have my own med. It's just easier for me. I feel better doing it.

Melanie Avalon
I feel so good, even though we can debate what that means.

Barry Conrad
Oh, here we go. Shout out to Jim Stevens, though, G. What is one meal? What is it? Have a snack? Wait a little bit? Eat? Wait a little bit?

Melanie Avalon
Didn't we revisit that on one of our first episodes together?

Barry Conrad
We did actually, which is really funny. We have to find it and put it in the show notes.

Melanie Avalon
Like what season was it during our first episode? Like when was that? Do you remember?

Barry Conrad
I think it was summer for me in Bondi. We were talking, I do remember it was sunny for me, so it would have been summer. I'm pretty sure I could be wrong, but I think so. So like winter.

Melanie Avalon
for me. Have we had like a year anniversary? Did we miss that?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, we haven't even thought about this. Did we miss our anniversary? We should look this up.

Melanie Avalon
We both forgot our anniversary. It's fine. Wait, let me check. Let me check right now.

Barry Conrad
I can't believe I didn't even think about that because I think it was November. I think that the first episode I did with you was in a November, wasn't it?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness, Barry, guess what? So, this episode airs that we're recording right now. January 5th, next week is episode 4.56 on January 12th, 2026. Our first episode was January 13th of 2025.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow.

Melanie Avalon
So next week would be our one year anniversary what and I was gonna do a guest Episode for that, but I think I should change that because we should be here for that, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we should be here. Of course, we should be here for that. We should definitely do that. What should we do? Oh my gosh. Ah, this is... We need to talk about this on the Mythical. We need to...

Melanie Avalon
We gotta talk about this offline.

Barry Conrad
This is a big deal.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my gosh, next year is going to be our anniversary. Or the day before the day before anniversary. you

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but still it's like, you know, we get to, we should still celebrate on.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so offline on our mythical call, we'll figure this out.

Barry Conrad
Yep. You're hearing this in real-time listeners. This is happening.

Melanie Avalon
I know, listeners, this is how this show goes down.

Barry Conrad
Wow, that's exciting. Why did we think about that? Because you're talking about, yeah, how did we think about that?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I asked when, like, what time of the season was it that we were recording, yeah.

Barry Conrad
And then you said, wait, was that? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
whoa okay well on that note shall we jump into some listener questions let's do it and this is perfect timing because the first question relates to what I was talking about for one of the things I want to bring with me when I travel so would you like to read the question from Mary

Barry Conrad
If Mary on Facebook asks, from start to finish, how long does it take food to digest? How long does it take to go through your system?

Melanie Avalon
Okay Mary, thank you so much for this question. I probably have thought way too much about this question like throughout my life.

It blows my mind that some people never even think about this and I have thought about it so much and I've had like so many therapy sessions about this. Do you remember Barry when they did the, was it like the blue muffin challenge thing?

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Did you do it?

Barry Conrad
I didn't do it.

Melanie Avalon
I remember thinking this really shows me how different people's mind, like people's mental experience of the world can be. Because if I were to do something like that, that would give me so much anxiety.

Why? Because then I'd be thinking about like, how long is food potentially? Like what if it's like backed up or like not moving at a good rate through my system? It's like two. Yeah, two. I don't like to think about that. So yeah, and it blew my mind that some people like never think about that at all.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but no, like, sorry to interrupt as well, but also, I haven't really thought about that that much until now.

And you said, like, you had some therapies, what were you, what worried you about food digesting or concerned you or, yeah, tell me, I'm curious, I'm genuinely curious.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So I went, I, I've talked about this on, hmm. I know I've talked about it on various biohacking podcasts that I've had and I've talked about it on me going on other podcasts, but I don't know if I've, I probably talked about on this show. I'm not sure.

But basically, I, I had a period of time where I was really hypothyroid and my digestion really slowed down. And I kind of got like at that time, and this was like in 2013, this was like, yeah, probably like 2013, 2013, 2014. I kind of developed like this mental complex fear, because I felt like I was like eating a lot of food, but nothing was moving through me. And so I, I started imagining like food fermenting and like a negative gut microbiome and like a toxic feeling like it made me feel very toxic. So I got I literally got like a fear of food not like moving through me like the way it should be.

Barry Conrad
Well, thanks for sharing that.

Melanie Avalon
Of course, yeah, so if other people have those, but then it was so mind-blowing to make some people like never think about it like at all, you know?

Barry Conrad
It makes me think about it now though.

Melanie Avalon
It made me realize too, it's so interesting, like just in general, like life fears, like there's so many things we could like be focused on or worried about. And it's all our choice what we focus on and get worried about.

So it's just interesting to me that like that was something that affected me so much and really distressed, like really stressed me out, but some people never think about it. And I'm sure there are so many other things that other people stress about that I never think about.

Barry Conrad
But also to be fair, if you were feeling bad as well, and if you had a hypothyroid, like it's very different. It's not like you were just like regular, regular, regular, and then all of a sudden I'm worried about digestion, you know, you had a reason to think about that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And it wasn't just hypothyroid. It was like mold. I was in a moldy apartment. I had carbon dioxide poisoning, heavy metal, like anemia, like all this stuff was going on. So that's why I'm so grateful for health. You know, they say like when you're, like when you're not healthy, like the one thing you want is your health back. Like when you're sick, the one thing you want is your health. And then when you're, no, when you're healthy, you want like the world or you want everything, but when you're sick, the only thing you want is your health. So shout out to people who may be experiencing anything like that, because it can get better.

I promise. Yeah. So Mary's question, food digestion time. I'm getting different answers for things, but in general, it looks like it can be anywhere from like 14 hours on the low end to up to 72 hours on the high end, like three days. Really? Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Oh my god, it's a long time.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but it's probably more like probably more like 14 to like 58 hours, but it you know It can take that that longs and so the digestive process Well, there's in your mouth, you know when you're chewing and swallowing and and that's where you first start breaking down Starches, so if you have any starch you have amylase in your saliva that can actually break down starches This is why if you have some bread and you chew it in your mouth for a really really long time It'll start tasting sweet because you actually break down the starch into more simple sugars But that's obviously like seconds or you know a minute.

Oh, which which by the way, well, I know the answer berry I don't know if I know the answer. I was gonna ask how much you like to your food or do you think about it?

Barry Conrad
You know what, I happily admit that I need to slow down because I inhale food. Like I just really smash it. I just go, I could afford to slow down.

Melanie Avalon
even like protein and steak and stuff.

Barry Conrad
I do definitely chew my protein more, but I can't afford to slow down more. It's a wonder that I don't actually have digestion issues because I do probably eat quicker than I do.

Melanie Avalon
Gotta get made of steel. For now. I feel like I chew a lot. I do, I don't know. I feel like I do chew a lot. And at restaurants, you know, I go really slow.

Barry Conrad
Like what? Give an example like five times?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. I don't really count the restaurants. I like really chew slowly.

Barry Conrad
That's good. It's mindful eating.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, uh, yeah, it's more like I don't want to like it's more about like social awareness, I think Then being mindful with the food

Barry Conrad
This goes all the way. Look away. Watch me.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, which by the way, I was reading an article yesterday about the proper way to cut steak at a restaurant and how to eat a steak at a restaurant properly.

Barry Conrad
How is it? What did they say?

Melanie Avalon
So you're supposed to, tell me if you do this, you're supposed to have the fork in your left hand, the knife in your right hand, put the fork onto the steak, cut off a very small bite, then switch hands, the fork goes into the right hand, and then you eat the one bite. And you're not supposed to pre-cut the whole steak, you're supposed to eat one bite at a time.

Barry Conrad
Okay, I don't switch hands. I've never done that. Have you done, do you do that? Well, I'm going to, next time I'm going to do it. Just try it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. Now we know. But back to the digestion, so then food goes into your stomach and in your stomach, that's where your stomach releases HCl, which is hydrochloric acid as well as digestive enzymes, which side note, I think the biggest game changer for me in my digestion is digestive enzymes, like the food combinations that I choose and then digestive enzymes. And I have launched my AvalonX digestive enzymes, they're called AvalonX Digest. They are the result of me finding the enzyme blend that I personally love the most historically, which was pure encapsulations, Digest Ultra, taking that formula essentially, and then removing what I didn't like about that formula, which was like the other additives and such, and then putting it into a glass bottle. So it's literally like my dream digestive enzymes. It will optimize change of digestion, help with digestive distress, it will help you absorb nutrients better. If you're trying to have more protein, it'll help you break down protein. Definitely get it friends.

It's at AvalonX.us. It's called AvalonX Digest. And you can use the code I have podcast to get a 10% discount on that. And you can also get a one time 15% code if you get on my email list at AvalonX.us slash email list. And you can get a one time 20% off code. If you text AvalonX, so Avalon A-B-A-L-O-N-X to 877-861-8318. That is AvalonX to 877-861-8318. Now that I sound like an ad, love digestive enzymes. They will help, they're released by the pancreas endogenously, your own digestive enzymes are, and they help break down food in your stomach. So again, that's two to six hours. And then food goes into the small intestine. That can be another like three to five hours. And also in the small intestine, you release enzymes as well. And then the majority of the transit time is in the large intestine, which is your colon. And that's where there can be another like 12 to 48 hours. So the whole process together can be anywhere from like, like I said, like 14 hours up to maybe 72 hours. Things that affect the speed of digestion is the type of food. So protein, fiber, and fat take longer to digest. Carbs are actually absorbed relatively quickly, especially simple carbs. So simple sugars and things like fruit, compared to starches, which do have to break down a little bit more, but all of them are absorbed faster than protein, fiber, and fat. And then fiber, you will hear things all over about fiber. You'll hear that it speeds up digestion, you'll hear that it slows it down. In general, it seems to show that fiber slows down digestion. But some people, I think like insoluble fiber might find that it speeds up, but in general, fiber probably slows it down. And then gender differences. So men tend to have a shorter transit time in their large intestine compared to women. Food digestion times. Do you have thoughts on all of that?

Barry Conrad
I feel like you answered that perfectly. I mean, you're really qualified to answer this by thinking about it so much.

Way too much. I do notice when I'm one thing that does help with digestion in general is making sure that you're drinking enough water, staying active, everything just flows better, literally, you know, get the drift. So yeah, I did it, you know, it's important. And also to pay attention to how you feel after different foods, you know, what you feel, searching your gut more, what's sticking around more. I didn't actually didn't know those figures and all, like that's quite a long time for up to 78, 58 to 72 hours. That's a long time to.

Melanie Avalon
And so that's another thing too is that I think this will really help people understand how complex it can be because you just mentioned how important it is to listen to your body. I just mentioned like multiple processes along the digestive process and things could go wonky at any, you know, at any point during that process.

So when you're reacting to a food. Like yesterday.

Barry Conrad
Which is interesting, right? Because that way, like sometimes if somebody has a funky gut the next day, it's like, they try to pinpoint, was it what I ate today? Was it last night for dinner? Like, what made me sick? And they try to think back, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And then like two other thoughts. So that's why doing like an elimination diet can be really important where you're eating the same thing over and over and then you add in one thing. So then you can really see Oh, it was that one thing.

And also this this can create kind of like a false, like a false positive with digestive issues because anytime you eat, even though you're eating at the top of this, like the mouth, it actually stimulates motility all throughout your GI track. So people can have an experience where there's distress and they're cold in, but they're not feeling it because it's not really moving and then they eat and then they feel bloating, but it's from food that was already there from like yesterday and they're colon. And it's just being stimulated from the eating process.

Barry Conrad
It's a process.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And I will say magnesium is a game changer for this as well, for motility. So you can also get my Avalon X magnesium 8. That really, really helps with that.

Barry Conrad
I wonder what, Melanie, I wonder what Mary's trainer thought, like what made her want to ask this question, if there's something bad that she ate, or it's just an interesting question to be asked, right? Like how long does it take for food to digest? Wonder what brought that on.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's so true. I mean, it's kind of like, it's like kind of like me, my past, like it'd be coming from a place of I don't I don't think I have the anxiety as much anymore.

Barry Conrad
The interesting thing for me is protein takes longer to digest and break down, right? And at the same time for me, I feel like it feels the most seamless for me to eat. Does that make sense?

Melanie Avalon
It does. And I actually was going to give this nuance. So I'm glad you're bringing it up.

Protein, like lean protein without fat, actually can digest faster. It's really the fat that really slows it down more. But I feel the same way like going back to what you're talking about, knowing what you're knowing your body and what food combinations work. Depending on the combination of food, I can definitely feel a difference of like how how fast it digests. And if I were to just like pure like lean protein, I digest that like really well.

Barry Conrad
It's interesting hearing those figures because it's almost like I don't even feel it, like I feel satiated but I don't feel bloated or full. You know what I'm trying to say?

It just feels easy to eat.

Melanie Avalon
So to bring this literally full circle from the beginning of the episode because I do have a lot of concerns with digestion because traveling can I feel like mess with people's digestion anyways and like just even normal people. Like I feel like normal people. I feel like a lot of people without digestive issues will have it when they travel.

So one of my like hacks for me personally and this is what I did on the at the eudaimonia conference, I will just eat some of the nights like just like just chicken like just because I won't get any digestive distress from that. Like I know it's like a safe food. Like you said, I like barely I don't even really feel it. If that makes sense.

Barry Conrad
You can eat lots and lots of it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And that's why a lot of people do carnivore diets and it radically helps their bloating and GI issues and stuff, just eating meat.

Barry Conrad
on this topic as well. I went to Olive Garden for the first time.

Melanie Avalon
For the first time?

Barry Conrad
for the first time.

Melanie Avalon
Did you feel like you were in Italy? Disney World doesn't even feel like a Disney World version of like, wait, it feels like a mass produced Disneyfied version.

Little bit low caliber, though, of Italy, not to like put down Olive Garden, but you know, it's like, it's a vibe. The theming is there. They play the music in the bathroom.

Barry Conrad
It blew my mind just how much food was being served and at such a like cheap price, but it's just like pounds and pounds and pounds, like what is happening? Where am I?

It was like a Disney Land for food for sure.

Melanie Avalon
I haven't been forever. Isn't it like unlimited, like stuff?

Barry Conrad
bread and 20 bucks for like unlimited pasta Melanie like what the heck what

Melanie Avalon
What loss did you get?

Barry Conrad
Well, you can change because basically after the first big plate, then you get to have unlimited like smaller plates of different parts of it. I started with fettuccine and then you can also pay like six bucks for like.

Melanie Avalon
Alfredo.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you can also get like proteins like sausage chicken and stuff but the point I'm trying to weave into this is that I definitely felt felt it felt that meal it was just you know it's just different. What is used to processing just the quality of it or yeah versus protein for example.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah.

And it's so interesting, like just speaking about that, because I think a lot of people, a lot of people think meat is really hard to digest and slows down digestion. And I just did mention protein about it being slow to digest. But if you're eating like clean protein without fermenting foods along with it, I mean, I just digest it really well. And I feel like a lot of people can and do.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it was delicious, but yeah, it's you definitely knowing what works. Your body is really, this is just so, so key just to enjoying eating, enjoying fasting, having a life that is just, just a quality, just a quality way of eating and just going through everyday life.

Like it's, it's a game changer. Cause if you're guessing constantly, is this good, is this bad? You're going to feel bad a lot of the time. It's really important to know what works for our bodies.

Melanie Avalon
It really, really is. That's why no pasta for me, unfortunately, or cheese. All right. Speaking of, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it!

Melanie Avalon
All right friends so this is our part of the show where we focus on the importance of what you eat in your eating window not just the fasting since we spent like the whole episode talking about our focus on eating anyways and we like to profile restaurants that we find where we think they have a cool vibe or something that is really intriguing or a nice menu.

So Barry what restaurant do you have for us today?

Barry Conrad
Well, the restaurant that I have for us today, Melanie, is in London in the UK. It's called Fen Church Restaurant, and I'll send you the link there. And why this place rocks is they offer a full, like, a la carte situation alongside a tasting option, so punters and people going to visit can choose exactly how they want to eat, which is what you'd like, whether you're in the mood for like one standout dish or like a full spread, which, you know, we'll probably get the full spread. It sits right at the top of the sky garden, which means the entire dining room is wrapped in like this high altitude, sweeping views of London. It's one of those spots where the setting becomes like the experience. So you'd like huge glass walls, dramatic city lights, lush indoor garden atmosphere. Oh, plants? Yeah. Wine-wise, they highlight an award-winning wine selection mill, which pairs beautifully with their modern European plates. It's the kind of list that invites you to explore a bit, whether you're in the mood for a clean white or something bold. The vibe is meant to be contemporary, airy, elegant. It's got that DRE destination restaurant energy without ever feeling stuffy. So perfect for people wanting somewhere impressive and scenic and a little glamorous AKA Melanie Avalon, but still relaxed enough for the good night out.

So let's get into it.

Melanie Avalon
Is DRE an acronym that's like used or did you come up with that just now?

Barry Conrad
I just can't for that.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love that you like throw it in like it's a thing, you know, some DRE energy, we just started saying that DRE, do you ever wonder how acronyms or like how things get started? Like who was the first person to say like a phrase and how it like took off? Like what if we're starting DRE right now?

Barry Conrad
We actually are, literally, so...

Melanie Avalon
We should start saying it to everybody and like just act like it's normal and then it'll take off.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that place has some, let's call it D-I-E, like destination ratio energy. Like, I feel like that's the thing.

Melanie Avalon
Do you know any good DRE restaurants around?

Barry Conrad
Have a good luck.

Melanie Avalon
Well, this is totally DRE energy. I love it. The windows, the plants, it's kind of like my apartment with windows and plants.

Barry Conrad
I thought you'd like it.

Melanie Avalon
I love it!

Barry Conrad
There's quite a few things there, so we'll go to the ala carte, there's also the tasting menu, but I reckon the ala carte situation would be good, and then there's also the tasting menu that's more like a set thing.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, it's a set one. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
ish.

Melanie Avalon
It is a sad menu.

Barry Conrad
I know you don't like that too.

Melanie Avalon
So should we go to the a la carte?

Barry Conrad
Let's go to the Ella cart and what I like about this as well, which I haven't seen before is listeners. If you go to the URL, it actually says they're like a snack while you wait delta dot, which is cool. Like that's even before the starters, which I love.

Melanie Avalon
is that do you think they do you think that's at the table or do you think it's literally while you're waiting oh wait probably for the food waiting for the food

Barry Conrad
Yeah, while you're waiting for your starters and mains to come out.

Melanie Avalon
So it's like a pre appetizer.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, which I love. I love that idea.

Melanie Avalon
That's fun. Okay. Should we start with that then? Yes.

Oh, and the first word. And I feel bad because I don't remember what we learned, but we learned, we learned the difference between prawns and shrimp, right? And who uses what and what it more likely is. Okay, wait. So the US uses shrimp and it's most likely going to be shrimp, right? And then prawns is, I don't remember. There was like two options for Europe. Like one option they use prawns and it was more likely prawns, I think. And one option it was prawns, but it was more likely shrimp, maybe.

Barry Conrad
Okay, so the main difference between prawns and shrimp are the prawns that have claws, while prawns often appear larger, shrimp are smaller and more curved.

Melanie Avalon
Really? We found out though, like the name. Hold on, I'm gonna find it. I think it was in my chat history. Let's see. Oh, I found it.

So, okay, yeah. So the US, maybe we will learn this eventually. So in the US, we more likely call it shrimp and it typically is shrimp. In the UK, they call it prawns and it's most likely cold water prawns, which are actually shrimp. So the UK, they call it prawns, but it's more likely shrimp, even though they're cold water prawns. Australia, you people, they actually say prawn and it actually is more likely to mean a prawn.

Barry Conrad
That's very confusing.

Melanie Avalon
So this is UK, right? Yeah, this is the UK. This is probably going to be a cold water prawn, either a northern prawn or a warm water prawn, but it's actually a type of shrimp.

Barry Conrad
But also listening is just letting you know it's going to it's pretty much the same. Same like it's going to taste, it's going to give you that same taste, look, everything. It's a miracle.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if I've had prawns, like real prawns.

Barry Conrad
You probably have with a, it's basically like a prawn. Well, it doesn't sound as cool as a shrimp cocktail, prawn cocktail. A prawn cocktail. A PC. A PC.

Melanie Avalon
Let's just start talking in acronyms. Let's have a PC at the DRE.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. There are a few things there. What's anything catching your eye?

Melanie Avalon
Obviously, I got to get, well, wait, but it's going to be shrimp, but I'm going to get the prawns, which come with pickled seaweed, green curry, and coriander. And as we know, these prawns are most likely shrimp.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna get oh I'm gonna get that also the glazed chicken wings and whiskey barbecue which I love chicken wings and then gotta get a rock oyster.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I was going to say I skipped over the oyster.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, cucumber, Vietnamese dressing, so those three, because it's little things, I think. I feel like the trinkets are not really... Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Trinkets, which is also a Barry Conrad word, which you use that word like it's a normal word like

Barry Conrad
I do, yeah. Just go with it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, are you gonna get a signature cocktail? I'm going in order are you gonna get a signature cocktail or a sparkling champagne?

Barry Conrad
You know what I feel like this place is giving me champagne vibes. I don't know why I don't normally go there But I reckon let's do it Don't print on belong.

Give me glass of that. Maybe get a bottle bottle of that

Melanie Avalon
You know, I don't really like champagne or sparkling wine.

Barry Conrad
You said this before, but I can't remember the reason why.

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's normally too sweet, but I don't like the carbonation, even though it's not that intense, because of, speaking of digestive issues, it's funny, carbonation, some people that really helps their digestion, some people it upsets it, it upsets mine, but they tend to be sweeter, the champagne, and I get headaches from champagne, I don't know why.

Barry Conrad
But I feel like my mom, for example, gets headache from champagne if it's bad champagne, but if it's expensive, good champagne, she doesn't.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I did I had a defining moment because dry from wine sent me a bottle of some I don't know if it was champagne or I think it was champagne. And so it was like the perfect chance to try like a low alcohol low sugar organic champagne. And I liked it but I still I just don't like we had it on my birthday with my family and I so I had like a sip but then I you know kind of gave it to everybody else.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I kind of want to actually try to drive home wines now that I'm here.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I know. We got to get you set up. You got to get some.

Barry Conrad
got to do it. So Champagne, are you gonna have anything to drink while we wait? With your while we wait?

Melanie Avalon
Do they have a wine list?

Barry Conrad
Yes, they do. If you go back to the main thing and go to one list, there's the middle one there.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so looking at the wine, okay, so they have a sommelier selection wines of the month. They buy the glass though. Oh, buy the glass. Oh, this is a, wait a second, wines by the glass. Oh my goodness, they have a corvan. Okay, so that means that you can taste really expensive wines that normally would not be by the glass. I feel really good about this menu. I would have to, they have a lot of French wines, so that's good. I'd have to look through the wines, but I would probably look at the, well, maybe start with a rosé, one of the French rosés, or one of the French red corvan options. So they've got a burgundy. Yeah, I would look, I would look those up, but they've got a lot of good options. This was a good wine list.

Okay, back to the menu.

Barry Conrad
Jump to our a la carte starter section, which over here, again, listeners, Melanie won't like this because they're calling it how we, how we say it in Australia. It's not like the.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they're using the word main for the main for them.

Barry Conrad
You're like, what is this?

Melanie Avalon
I do like the word starter because it's very universal. You know, like you say starter, I know what you're saying, I say it, you know what I'm saying.

But when we go down the route of like entree, now you're saying, yeah, then we're done. Well, before that, are you gonna have some of the sourdough bread?

Barry Conrad
Absolutely. Got a, I love a good sourdough bread. I feel like it's good on my gut.

So definitely have some fresh sourdough bread with some, it comes with caramelized onion, artichoke, aged balsamic butter. Let's go.

Melanie Avalon
I see what you did there.

Barry Conrad
Seated LaRouche.

Melanie Avalon
skip the word that he didn't know.

Barry Conrad
Seated Lavroche, Cara Vila's Artichoke. I wonder if anyone ever listens, like, look this up at the same time and go, you got that wrong, you got that wrong, got that wrong.

Melanie Avalon
sneaky sneaky trying to like skip the words okay starters oh okay oh oh oh i see i see things i see two things i want same so do you want to go back and forth

Barry Conrad
You go first, you stand on us.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'll get the cured jerk salmon. Although I need to talk actually, that's a maybe I have to talk to them, because it might it's probably cured in like some sort of seasoning and that seasoning might have like sugar and a lot of stuff in it. So if it's cured, and it doesn't have a lot of additives, I will get that it comes with spring onion and green mango, yuzu ponzu and plantain chips, I'll get that on the side. So that's my first one.

Should I do my second one? Or do you want to go?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you do for the corner.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and then I'm gonna get steak tartare, of course, which comes with spice relish, smoked mayo, cured yolk, and crispy potato, rusty. But, and I always get my steak tartare deconstructed.

And just so you know, friends, restaurants do this. I've done this at so many restaurants. Have you ever seen or ordered deconstructed steak tartare? No. Cause you know how like normally like tartare is like, it's the steak mixed with all that stuff. So they bring it out in separate bowls, like the steak, the egg, the relish.

Barry Conrad
Good to know, actually. So how about you?

I'm going to go to the crab rigatoni, but they have an orange font there to the side of lobster. So if you can maybe substitute lobster instead of crab, I think that's what that means. I'll get that.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if it's adding crab or substituting.

Barry Conrad
If it's an ad, I'll take both. It's courgette, confit, lemon, roast smoked butter sauce. It sounds delicious.

And then I'm also going to do the steak tart as well. And also because you're deconstructing yours, I've never tried it before. I'm going to do that as well.

Melanie Avalon
Experience really? Yeah.

I mean, okay, you might want to get it not deconstructed though because it's not that exciting It's really only if you want to eat like steak plain then. Oh, no, you don't want to like mimic me here This is not like a mimic Melanie situation

Barry Conrad
So we're going to go into the mains. Look pretty good. Yeah. Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, oh, I see exactly what I want. This is so easy.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they have one of my favorites. What are you going to choose? The Suffolk Wild Venison Loin. So I love venison.

Shout out to Maui Nui. We love Maui Nui venison. So it comes with curried sausage. Oh, a curried sausage roll, beetroot. I should know how to say this because it's a very common thing. I've never said it out loud. Celeriac. I've never said it out loud. Celeriac. I know what it is. Purple cabbage and Huntsman sauce. So I will get all of that on the side and cooked rare. Oh, wait. Oh, they have a to share. They have a ribeye and they have a crust. They have a veal chop. I love veal.

Barry Conrad
The real topic, he sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Do you think they can like half crust it? What do you mean half? Can we order a veal chop half Parmesan crusted?

Barry Conrad
We could ask.

Melanie Avalon
Remember what we talked about on the cheese episode parmesan is like

Barry Conrad
Yeah, high protein. It's high protein though.

Melanie Avalon
I love veal chop though, this is hard.

Barry Conrad
Well, you could we could ask and if they don't, you could always like take a tiny bite and see how it feels to eat it.

Melanie Avalon
Could we like get it that way? And then can you cut me a bite from the center?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, this is going to be such an extra. This is going to be so fun. I'm going to get the peppered lomina lamb. I love lamb so much. Pickled cucumber, black garlic, gungio peas, couscous. It sounds really, really good.

Yum. And then the parmesan crusted veal chop. Yeah, we'll share that. And then sides. Do you want any sides, Mel? How are we getting the veal chop prepared? We'll ask for the half crust and we'll see what they say. You mean, how do you want it?

Melanie Avalon
Like, rare?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we'll do right, I could do right.

Melanie Avalon
We can do like rare plus or medium rare if you insist.

Barry Conrad
Very plus, maybe very plus, and then sides got to try those truffle new potato, love potatoes. So I've got to do that.

And, Hmm, what else looks good there? No sides, because I feel like their portions are going to be massive. So.

Melanie Avalon
are going to be or will not be.

Barry Conrad
What weren't because from memory, like the portions in the UK aren't that big, like they're pretty conservative.

Melanie Avalon
I'm good on sides. So I mean, I would have if you got the broccoli, I might have like a broccoli, a broccoli.

Barry Conrad
And then, let's go to the Desserts menu.

Melanie Avalon
Also wait quick question. Yes, so broccoli cauliflower and then the the broccoli cauliflower situation I don't have you seen that it's like cauliflower, but it's green.

Do you know I'm talking about no I'm not seeing it right now, but broccoli or cauliflower. What do you like better?

Barry Conrad
That's odd because my mom used to make this cauliflower with like white creamy sauce, which is amazing, but I probably eat more broccoli, personally, like cook more broccoli, but I do love cauliflower as well.

Melanie Avalon
same and I found it type in romanesco it's like romanesco oh wow isn't that wild it's like broccoli cauliflower hybrid it's like

Barry Conrad
a Commutant.

Melanie Avalon
I know. It looks cool. Okay, and then are we getting dessert?

Barry Conrad
We have to check out that dessert menu. It looks pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
Let us see. I also want to look I'm gonna look really quick at the tasting menu. I want to see oh and the set menu. I just got to make sure there's nothing like oh man the tasting menu has

Barry Conrad
We could always ask, can you make an exception and.

Melanie Avalon
They have a grilled venison.

Barry Conrad
Well, they do have different things. They have joke, salmon, and ceviche.

Melanie Avalon
Then they have a tis the seat of vegetarian.

Barry Conrad
We could ask about the Google venison, you never know.

Melanie Avalon
Chef set menu. What's on that? Okay, okay, I'm good. Um, so desserts.

Barry Conrad
Desserts. Is anything catching your eye?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, let's see. So for dessert, I think I will get... Probably just get more of whatever I like the most from before.

So maybe the tartare, maybe the salmon, maybe the prawns, probably like one of those.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go with the Chef Kurth Gums seasonal souffle, which is orange and dark chocolate, candied lemon, marble cake. Yum, that sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. Are you going to get an after dinner?

Barry Conrad
Yeah there's others also got to do a i want to old-fashioned actually an age old-fashioned belay bourbon and rywhiskey demerara sugar and gusto and orange bitters that sounds like a smash sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. What about you?

I'll just keep sipping on the wine. It looks like they had a lot of wine, so I might... Sometimes for dessert, I might go like the white wine route. Like I know a lot of people go like white wine and then red wine, but I kind of like to like have the red wine and then like end with a white wine. Awesome, awesome. Well, good find. We will have to visit.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I know. Well, just any of the many restaurants, I can't wait for our first meal. It's going to be so much fun.

Melanie Avalon
I know which our first meal

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's got to be a good one. It's got to be great. It can't be all of good on a comfy.

Melanie Avalon
Lots of pressure. If you come to Atlanta, we might... Well, I don't know. You know, my favorite restaurant is Lazy Betty, Michelin Stars, all the things, but it is a set price menu. So that's kind of complicated, but I've never eaten there and it's like my favorite restaurant.

So that might need to happen. I would just have to do like a... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if we should eat at a set price restaurant though, because we order like some... Maybe not.

Barry Conrad
Because we like to choose things.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and we like a lot of food. So maybe not backtrack. We'll think about it. We'll brainstorm. So awesome find and friends, we hope you had the best time with us today.

Thank you so so much for being here. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 455. Those show notes will have links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And then if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. You can also ask questions in our Facebook group, I have biohackers, intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life. And you can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. And then lastly, follow us on Instagram. We are I have podcast, I have Melanie Avalon, Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. I think that's all the things Barry. Now we have to go figure out what we're going to do next week for our anniversary.

Barry Conrad
Yes, we have to.

Melanie Avalon
We gotta figure that out but this has been so so fun anything from you before we go.

Barry Conrad
Now thank you so much listeners for tuning in. We'll catch you next week. Can't wait!

Melanie Avalon
and happy 2026 to everybody!

Barry Conrad
FA2026, everyone! Bye!

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!
 

Welcome to Episode 454 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
 

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 454 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 454 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. I'm so much better now because I'm talking to you. So that's really exciting.

And yeah, it's been an amazing day. And it's even better now that I'm doing the pod. So it's been a little second since we've done the pod. So exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Likewise, I'm trying to see when this airs so we get an idea of where listeners are and their trajectory of life.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we need to know, where are we going to be?

Melanie Avalon
We should probably check that on the regular before we jump in. So this, oh my goodness, Barry, this airs December 29th.

Barry Conrad
What? That is wild. That's crazy. That means it's, we literally, like, New Year's Eve Eve-ish. Eve Eve Eve.

Melanie Avalon
Do you like New Year's Eve?

Barry Conrad
I love it because there's a sense of expectation, excitement, possibilities for what the next year could hold. Do you know what I mean?

Melanie Avalon
I do. I have thoughts about New Year's Eve. Tell me. So everything you just said, yes. It's exciting. It's fun. I like how people dress up for it. It's like a classy holiday, you know?

Well, depending on where you go, but it can be. And then, although ironically enough, people might think that I, since I'm such a night owl, that I wouldn't mind it being so late. But I actually don't like being like out at midnight, you know? Like, that's late.

Barry Conrad
on this this is news to me because usually

Melanie Avalon
Wait, really? We haven't talked about this?

Barry Conrad
No, because usually because as listeners who have been listening for a while know, Melanie Avalon is the queen of being a night owl. So I'm surprised that there's a difference between being out late at night and then just being up late at home.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, there's a whole wind down process. Like when you're going home, I've still got another like three or four or five hours. So if I am going home after midnight, then that's really pushing things back. I like to be going home in the 11s.

But like with New Year's, I mean, I know that's not like a huge difference, but like in New Year's, you're like waiting for midnight for the actual event to happen rather than like be over.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Okay. What about like an average Saturday night or like Friday night when you go out and you do your the dress and the whole situation? Do you get back before midnight usually or after?

Melanie Avalon
Well, no, I do get back after midnight, but it doesn't make sense, Barry, but there's something about going out for normal events where the event is starting at like seven or eight compared to like waiting all the way until midnight for like the thing, even though then it's kind of over. So I don't know.

Something I do like though. So have we talked about New Year's at all? Like our feelings about it? No, no, no. Do you know my favorite thing is about New Year's Day? What? It's like the one day where everybody is hungover. So if you're not feeling well, you feel like you're like misery loves company. Like everybody's, like you don't have to be productive that day because nobody's feeling good. I mean, some people are.

Barry Conrad
No one's feeling good.

Melanie Avalon
I am, sometimes.

Barry Conrad
Well, do you have any plans? I mean, even though, okay, this is airing two days before New Year's, but do you have any plans in a couple of days if you were in the future right now?

What are you doing for this?

Melanie Avalon
I do, are you? Not yet. I mean, I think... Do you want to come? To my plans?

Barry Conrad
What are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
We're going to go to the aquarium again, the Sips Under the Sea thing, where they have the drinks with the fishes.

Barry Conrad
You love that. Actually, we're going to be upstate. We're going to be upstate at that house. Yes, in the snow. Oh, that's fun.

It's not the aquarium though. It's not under the sea with, you know, stuff, fit, swimming everywhere and having drinks and everything.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Do you think it bothers the fish that, like, does that mess up their circadian rhythms? Do fish, I don't know, do fish like sleep? Whoa, I have never thought about this.

Because when you're under the ocean, I mean, how far down do you go before, like, the light doesn't change?

Barry Conrad
I mean, I guess the good thing is they can kind of swim away, but maybe they see it as like who's coming this year. Maybe it's like a game to them.

I'm like, I wonder who's going to be back this year at this party, you know?

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to watch them and see how they feel about this.

Barry Conrad
But what happens at the party? Is there a format or is it just sort of drinks, drinks, drinks up until 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I haven't been to the Aquarium's New Year's, but I've been to their Halloween and their St. Patrick's and there are like a lot of other ones. So, and typically it's, there's dancing, everything's decorated. Oh, I think for New Year's, they, it's more classy. So I think there's like catering and I think you dress up really nicely.

All the exhibits are open for friends. This is the Georgia Aquarium, which is the largest aquarium in the Western hemisphere. I highly recommend it. It's amazing. It feels like Disney World, except like just ocean themed. Yeah, and then, yeah, I guess like there's the countdown. It'll be fun. The past two years, I actually went to the same party. It was like a rooftop, fancy party thing, downtown.

Barry Conrad
Are you going to dress up as anything aquarium themed, maybe, or not really? It's not. How do you even do that?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, now you got me thinking, cuz New Year's, man, now I have to wear blue sparkles, I guess.

Barry Conrad
Well, you kind of have to because I feel like you do every single big occasion, you always dress up, right?

Melanie Avalon
Now I have to get like a really sparkly blue dress.

Barry Conrad
Do it, do it, do it. Might as well go, you know, end it big.

Melanie Avalon
I'm sold. You must dress up even if you're just like at home. You won't be at home, right? You'll do something.

Barry Conrad
No, there'll be stuff happening. I'll dress up for sure. It's not going to just be, you know, sweats or anything. We'll do something festive. Be good.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like when I hear this upstate concept, I'm thinking that you're like in a cabin and there's like nothing around.

Barry Conrad
Well, it's kind of like a bougie cabin. It's not really a cabin. It's like a massive, massive house. It's really nice.

There's a town there. But who knows? Maybe we'll come back early. Maybe there's something happening in the town. We have to plan that.

Melanie Avalon
your first wait no no no wait wait wait yeah is this wait is this your first u.s new years

Barry Conrad
This is my first ever US news ever.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness.

Barry Conrad
Big deal. Big, big first.

Melanie Avalon
I can't believe you're not going to, I mean, I can because you're not going to be there, but I feel like the most famous New Year's Eve place to be on New Year's is New York City.

Barry Conrad
I know. Well, maybe we'll, I don't know, maybe we'll be back by the 29th, you know, after Christmas. Maybe after Boxing Day, we'll come back to the city. Maybe, probably.

Melanie Avalon
Would you go down there for like Times Square, like the whole thing?

Barry Conrad
Are you ever back in the city it's got to be a vibe is going to be something and if not it's going to be a party that's like crazy or some. It's all happening we're not just going to be chilling on new year's eve no way.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Speaking of parties, just so we don't get too far behind, can I very, very briefly tell you about my first world problems for my birthday? Also happy belay.

Barry Conrad
Gated birthday again, Mel. Amazing, tell me.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. Okay, I'll make this very I'll make this a very truncated short version was supposed to go see a comedian Taylor Tomlinson. She canceled her show had to scramble and find something else to go to because we had a group of like 15 people decided to go to Cirque du Soleil. And here comes my first world problems.

So have you been to Cirque du Soleil?

Barry Conrad
I haven't, but I've always wanted to go, always.

Melanie Avalon
I have, but I've been to one that was at a touring arena and I've been to one at the Fox Theater. I have not been to like the tent version, like the OG, like, you know, like the ones in the tents, like that vibe.

So nobody told me that they're not climate controlled and that like the bathrooms are a porta potty situation. So Barry literally, and what's really ironic is that like the next day we got an insane like freeze thing. So like the next day would have been perfect because it was like 20 degrees, but that day it was warm. It was hot. It was humid. So I was in my big gown. So literally Barry for the first half of that show, and I don't like drinking when I'm hot and humid and uncomfortable. So for the first half of that show, this is so horrible. I was literally just complaining in my head about how uncomfortable I was.

Barry Conrad
This is really hot, really annoyingly hot.

Melanie Avalon
I was just not happy because it was my birthday. I was supposed to be like in climate control. That's all.

And then like the bathroom situation was porta-potties. I was having flashbacks, doing background acting for six months. Like, but I survived.

Barry Conrad
That's actually very funny visual because I'm picturing it now and just you sighing and kind of like, this is not ideal. Why is this happening?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and then I'm judging myself because I'm like, Melanie, like this is an incredible show, you need to watch it, not complain. So it's like, it's just like a conversation in my head for an hour and a half like that.

Barry Conrad
Do you think any of the performers like clock to a unit frustration or did you make eye contact with him like how you do at the theater shows.

Melanie Avalon
That's a funny thing. I made a lot of eye contact. They were making a lot of eye contact. I wasn't even thinking about it.

Later my mom came up, she was like, that one guy just kept coming over and looking at you. I was like, I was not paying attention, but that's great. But it was really fun, regardless.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. I want to see some more photos. You gotta see me some more so I can see.

Melanie Avalon
I will. And then we went another shout out.

We went to Lazy Buddy, my favorite Michelin-starred restaurant in Atlanta after. They kept it open for us because they were closed and I had drinks and it was amazing. So that's my story.

Barry Conrad
How do you feel being another year advanced? I should say advanced.

Melanie Avalon
We don't really talk about it, but...

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I didn't want to say older because you know, like it's how you feel so advanced.

Melanie Avalon
Another year younger. I feel great.

Actually, I, I really appreciate life is amazing. I love this show. I love podcasting. I love biohacking. I love creating products. I'm so grateful for friends and family. So I am happy. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Well, that's exciting, but also you're deflecting.

Melanie Avalon
Your turn.

Barry Conrad
No, that's really great. I'm so happy for you and hoping that this next year is all you wanted to be. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
Same to you and to friends listening in real-time. Happy last days of 2025 and happy new year to everybody.

Barry Conrad
Happy last days of 2020. This is wild. Have the best time, everyone, and be safe.

Melanie Avalon
I know. This means we're, we are closer, we will be closer to 2030 than 2020. Probably a good thing. Well, I guess we'll find out.

Barry Conrad
Yo, we will find a TBC dot dot dot.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Should we jump into things? Anything else?

Barry Conrad
I think we should. Also, I was going to say, if we have time, I just did my annual physical last week, like with blood work and stuff, Mel. I was kind of nervous, like, you know, I don't know why I get nervous before doing bloods because I should be confident about it, but the results were awesome.

The doctor basically said that they are the results that someone at least 10 years or more younger than me would have, especially my lipopenna, like HDL, my cholesterol, my triglycerides. And, you know, basically, you know, I'm a volume eater, you and me both, as you know, and I love my big hedonic feast every day. I eat a lot in my window and I enjoy wine, too, and spirits sometimes as well. So a lot of people, I guess, get confused sometimes or frown on that because there's sometimes an assumption that eating this one big meal or drinking is going to automatically result in unhealthiness or mess up your numbers. But what this really shows is that the overall pattern, like the long fasting window, the time my body got to reset, the low insulin most of the day, it's had these awesome effects. So I'm super, super stoked, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. This is so exciting. Thank you for sharing.

And this is all assuming, of course, that you're not like my theory, which I actually got accused of this week as well. Is that your AI? I'm not AI. We could both be AI.

Barry Conrad
You know, who knows? Who actually does know? We're not. We're smarter than AO, we can't be it.

Melanie Avalon
No, that's amazing. And actually, the study that I have next week is about what you just talked about. Teaser.

Barry Conrad
Wow, look at that. Look at that. We didn't even plan the listeners. There you go.

Melanie Avalon
Do you think you're always going to be nervous before your blood test? It's not nervous.

Barry Conrad
I think it's a sense of like, do you know when a cop pulls you over when they're driving behind you, even though you know you're not a drunk, be driving illegally?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, yes, that's such a good metaphor or simile, it was a simile. That is such a good simile.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I mean, I guess that feeling and this is like, what is it going to be? Like a sense of like, please be good.

Melanie Avalon
It's kind of helpful if you ever get more into my biohacking world. Brands send me blood tests, like I did one yesterday. So it's like exposure effect and I'm doing them 24 seven. It's helpful that way.

Barry Conrad
No, I don't want to be. Oh, trust me. I want to get more into Mel Evelyn's biohacking universe.

Melanie Avalon
Well, we should get you sent some. The one I did yesterday was so, have you done the at-home blood test where you stick the thing to your shoulder?

Barry Conrad
No. Who does that one?

Melanie Avalon
So a lot of companies use it. It's a method of collecting blood. So rather than doing like a finger stick, which I don't like doing those at home, because when you're doing like a big blood test at home with a finger stick, you got to like, I don't know, I like almost faint. I don't like doing it.

It's hard to get that much blood out of your finger. So it's this thing that like sticks to your arm, you don't even feel it. And it like sucks the blood out of you like a vampire and fills up a little like a fills up a bottle.

Barry Conrad
So how long do you leave it on your shoulder like your arm?

Melanie Avalon
It's however long it takes to fill up, so it took mine a couple minutes to actually start. I think the way it works is that it briefly sort of punctures you, but then it sucks it.

That's how it gets all the blood. So it takes a little bit to create that suction, and then you just wait I think about five minutes.

Barry Conrad
It's a vampire. It's a biohiking vampire.

Melanie Avalon
So that was for rhythm health, but uh, but congrats. Yay. Healthy berry. That's awesome.

Barry Conrad
It's just the whole thing, seeing numbers, reflecting it is one thing to talk about fasting and metabolic health, but it's another thing entirely when labs confirm that our lifestyle is great for keeping your internal markers younger than actual age and in good nick, I should say.

Melanie Avalon
especially with and again this we'll talk about this more next week but the concerns and fears I think people have around like the way we eat and such.

Barry Conrad
Tell me about it.

Melanie Avalon
big meals. Awesome. All right. Well, do you have, speaking of studies, do you have a study for us today?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study today, Mel, and it's called Animal and Plant Protein. Usual intakes are not adversely associated with all cause, cardiovascular disease or cancer-related mortality risk, an NHANES-3 analysis. So it comes from Yanny Papanicolo, Stuart Phillips, and Victor Fulgoni, and it was published in Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, 2025. The researchers used NANES-3 data, which is this massive national health survey from the U.S., and they followed almost 16,000 adults for many years to see how their usual protein intake related to long-term health. So they looked at how much animal protein people sort of ate typically, things like meat, my favorite, eggs, dairy, poultry, fish, and how much plant protein they got from beans, nuts, and grains. Then they sort of linked that with mortality records to see if eating more animal protein or more plant protein changed the chances of dying from any cause, heart disease or cancer. They also looked at IGF-1 levels in a smaller group because that hormone sort of sometimes shows up in protein-related research. So the results are surprisingly neutral. Eating more animal protein did not increase the risk of dying from anything. Thank you.

Eating more plant protein did not increase the risk either. So heart disease deaths did not change. Cancer deaths did not rise with the higher protein, and there was even a very small hint of lower cancer mortality with animal protein.

Melanie Avalon
have you said of lowered or more?

Barry Conrad
lower cancer mortality with animal protein.

Melanie Avalon
with adding more animal, sorry, adding more, wait, plant protein.

Barry Conrad
animal protein.

Melanie Avalon
And I'm over, whoa, okay.

Barry Conrad
which we love, although it wasn't strong enough to overstate. So the IGF-1 didn't change the relationship either. The takeaway, Mel, is that based on this huge dataset, the protein type alone did not meaningfully raise mortality risk.

And here's where this becomes relevant to intaminar fasting, because a lot of people who fast, they worry what they should be eating in the eating window, especially when it comes to protein. Protein is such a topical, it's like a hot topic right now, because we talk so much about protecting muscle and maintaining strength, and it's all over social media and the news. And I think this study sort of helps simplify things a bit. It says that choosing animal protein or plant protein isn't what determines long-term mortality. But, and this is an important but, the study doesn't change our basic physiology. So as we all know, actually, if you don't know, the current RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight per day. And that is the minimum needed to avoid muscle deficiency. So that's not to build muscle, just avoid deficiency. So zooming out, I reckon, in a fasting lifestyle, where our eating window is shorter, maybe, getting enough protein becomes even more important, listeners. So realistically, meeting that protein target through plant sources alone could be more challenging than animal protein. So plant proteins are generally less protein dense, lower in certain essential amino acids. It means you have to be pretty intentional and deliberate by eating larger amounts or combining different plant foods to hit that minimum daily. And animal proteins make reaching that RDA way easier because they're just more concentrated and complete. So while this study is reassuring in terms of mortality risk, which we love, it doesn't mean, like someone can just sort of say, I'm getting some protein now from veggies and that's great because you still got to hit that RDA. And protein still needs to be met consistently, especially for us intermittent fasters who want to protect muscle health, metabolism, and physical performance. So what the study supports is freedom of choice and not lowering the protein bar. I mean, at the end of the day, if we're fasting, the most important thing is meeting those needs, choosing foods that work for you, and staying consistent with your eating rhythm. And it's a reassurance that you don't need to fear animal protein. And it also reminds us that protein quality and quantity still matters. What do you reckon, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I obviously love this study so much. I was thinking about it.

I feel like out of all of the different nutrition related topics, protein is just one of the most perplexing and slightly frustrating ones for me because it's just so interesting that protein, it's like the one macronutrient which literally provides the foundational building blocks for our body. So it's out of the macronutrients. It's like the source that builds us. And then on top of that, it's the source that's probably least likely to become fat. So we're less likely to gain weight from it. It's just so healthy, so helpful for supporting muscle. And then there's all these ideas out there about we need to lower our protein intake. And I honestly feel like the majority of studies that are out there, if they show something negative about high protein diets, it's probably correlational. And it's probably a proxy for a high calorie diet because unless you're consciously doing an approach where you're doing high protein and monitoring your calories or doing intermittent fasting or something, you're probably having a lot of protein just like in the normal diet. So high protein could be for a lot of cases, just like a really high calorie diet. So how do we know that the problems are coming from the protein versus the caloric load? And what I love about this study in particular that you found is I do, so personally, my one lingering concern about protein is the high IGF-1 effect. So the high growth hormone that's created from it, because we know in general, or we see that IGF-1 levels tend to correlate to longevity in the way that if you have higher IGF-1 levels, or sorry, like lower IGF-1 levels typically relate or correlate to increased longevity. And the final sentence of the opening abstract of this paper says mortality risk was not associated with circulating IGF-1 in any age group. So this literally answers the one lingering fear I have about protein, not definitively, of course, but that it really speaks to that.

And so fascinating that animal protein, that they found it was mildly protective for cancer mortality. Because again, that's what is often said is that high protein diets can encourage cancer, especially like animal products in general. This is what is said, that animal products in general and especially animal protein. So wild that they found it was mildly protective.

Barry Conrad
I love it because it's true, Mel, you hear it all the time. You shouldn't eat so much weird meat. Barry, you shouldn't have so much steak. It's bad for you, didn't you hear?

But it's so not. It feels good to know that the science supports that because all we can do is the best with what we know, Mel, and science is constantly evolving. So to see studies like these supporting... It needs to be a fasting protein, what we're eating. It's really good for peace of mind so that we're on the right track.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And actually I want to ask you, um, so do people say that to you a lot? Like, do people, do people comment on how much protein you eat or like steak?

Barry Conrad
They really do, because a lot of people, once they find out that I do intermittent fasting, A, it's like, ah, and then it turns to when I say 20 hours, it's like, ah, and then when they see what I eat, they're like, are you sure that's not unhealthy? Didn't you hear that eating that much red meat's really bad for you? It can cause cancer, cause a disease. You shouldn't do that. You should get that checked out. So a lot of people knowingly just say that, whether it's just something they heard or, but it's something that I hear and get a lot, actually.

What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Well, that's what's interesting and that I'm thinking about I wonder if and we've had conversations about this before on the show about just society and like male versus female and things like that. I wonder, I do not people do not really tell that to me very much.

So like if I were to be at a restaurant, eating a lot of steak and and then I order my like second, my second protein animal meal and then my savory dessert of salmon. I think people find it humorous and maybe surprising because I'm like a thin female and they like people often think instead I'm like vegetarian or something. I wonder if people are more comfortable like since you're a man like giving you grief for that compared to me.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I think you know what a lot of dudes, a lot of guys don't say that to me as much like they're like, Oh, are you getting eating so much protein? That's so awesome. Like they're more impressed that I.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they don't say that.

Barry Conrad
It's more older men and females that I hear they're from rather than like males my age or guys who train.

Melanie Avalon
WOAH!

Barry Conrad
Yeah cuz a lot of them know like that they know how important protein is not are you getting your games you getting your protein that's awesome that's great. You know so it's very specific.

Melanie Avalon
Sorry, it's the females that say that it might be a problem.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like, are you sure that's healthy? You should check that out. Like, you know, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
That is so interesting. I have not thought about that.

It's interesting to hear things, especially having done this show prior to you joining with like a female co-host for so long. It's interesting to imagine the experience of doing fasting from a different perspective like that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it also could be a chasm of, like, you know, it's my reality, meaning, like, people that I'm surrounded with usually aren't a health effectiveness or training, so they are more versed in, you know, what we need to get in protein-wise, where a lot of general people, people might meet just in the wild, and I'm at a party, or they're like, ah, that's kind of extreme, you should, I heard red meat's really bad to you, like, and I usually hear that from older males, and older meaning, like, late 50s, and then just females in general. Not all females? Not hating on all females, just, like, from a female population usually say something? Not all, but some.

Melanie Avalon
So interesting. Awesome. Well, good find with the study. Shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. All right. Would you like to read the first one which relates to animal protein?

Barry Conrad
Do we go? So Damon, shout out to Damon, Damon on Facebook asks, what do you think of getting protein from cheese?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, Damon. So I just said a second ago that protein is one of the most, you know, perplexing and frustrating things for me. Cheese is also up there for topics that I am confused by. And that's because it is overwhelming how many different things I have read about cheese that are seemingly completely contradictory. In general, something I think that's important to just make note of to start is cheese can be lean, like really high protein and relatively lean, or it can be like very fatty, like basically all fat. So there can be really different, you know, composition between where the calories are coming from and how much of that actually is protein. So but if you're getting something like softer cheeses, like brie, that's going to have, you know, less protein relatively speaking. And then there are things like cottage cheese where, you know, you could get that and it's basically like you could get fat free cottage cheese and it's like all protein or you can get fattier cottage cheese. Basically, there's just a lot of different ways that it can manifest when you eat it as far as the protein intake. So that's the protein front.

And then there are just so many different studies on how it affects muscle, how it affects weight, how it affects inflammation. So I'm trying to see if I should go through some different studies. Okay, so when it comes to weight, cheese does seem to promote satiety in a lot of people. So it can help with appetite regulation and weight maintenance, but it also can be really easy to overeat. So I know for me, cheese, just like I just want to eat it and eat it and never stop eating it. So for me, I just can't because it's a gateway food into not being able to properly regulate my appetite. But for some people, adding it in is the opposite, like it really promotes satiety. It helps them actually eat less overall. It's not connected to weight gain. Dairy and cheese are high in calcium, which can help actually enhance fat oxidation. So there's that. And then there's some observational studies that actually show inverse relationships between cheese and weight gain. So that actually relates to the French paradox phenomenon. So the French tend to eat a lot of cheese, they tend to be leaner. The French paradox also encompasses wine, which I like, they tend to drink a lot of wine and they tend to be leaner. So some studies in particular, and again, the reason I'm so torn by this is I read so many different things, but there are quite a few different studies. So when it comes to inflammation, there was a 2024 study and they found that aged cheddar cheese had bioactive peptides produced during the ripening process that effectively suppress inflammation, but not young cheese. Young cheese, oh my goodness, it's so funny. And there was a systemic review of 27 randomized controlled trials. And they found that in 19 trials evaluating dairy products, 10 had no effect on inflammation, eight saw a reduction in inflammation, and at least one biomarker of inflammation.

Melanie Avalon
And then there was another study that compared a high fat meal with cheddar cheese compared to a vegan alternative. And they found that the cheese meal had significantly lower CRP levels and CRP is a marker of inflammation. So they did find in there that the cheese, either the cheese reduced the inflammation or the alternative increased it, but they did find that.

And then going back to studies on weight. So there was a analysis of 120,877 us adults for up to two years, sorry, 24 years of thinking months, 24 years. And they found that cheese was not linked to weight gain, even when intake was increased while yogurt was actually associated with weight loss. So they, they found that the evidence suggested that whole fat dairy foods do not cause weight gain, but overall dairy consumption actually, but officially can increase lean body mass and reduce body fat.

Barry Conrad
It's kind of fascinating.

Melanie Avalon
There is a lot of good data and studies on cheese as being a good option for weight maintenance, for supporting muscle, for satiety, for helping with inflammation. But I think you really, really need to know your body because some people, I mentioned myself having kind of like an addictive personality with cheese. I also get, unless it's cottage cheese, honestly like cottage cheese, cheese makes me kind of feel like mucusy. Like I definitely feel it also can make me break out a little bit. So I think you need to be aware of how it actually feels in your body.

How does it make you feel? And really do what works for you. And then on top of that, I'll just go on a quick little tangent. I do think fermented dairy products can be a good way to go. So like when I eat, I love like cultured cottage cheese that has the live active probiotics in it. I love things like that. And you definitely, I mean, do what you want, but I would stay away from super processed forms of cheese, you know, like American cheese slices, which by the way, Barry, welcome to the US and the American. I have a question. Do they have the like the Kraft American cheese slices here? Do they have those in Australia?

Barry Conrad
Not the way you have here. I literally had to buy a low-fat version of that for a recipe the other day. It's wild how many varieties there are.

Melanie Avalon
It's a thing. And it is so good. Oh my gosh. Have you had like the non-lo fat, just like the straight up craft American singles?

Barry Conrad
I did because I went to make smash burgers, homemade smash burgers, and I tried making with the low-fat, and it was all right, but it doesn't hit the same. So I had to just go all in and get the American cheddar straight up.

Melanie Avalon
was it so good? So processed. Yeah, yeah. So those are my thoughts on cheese.

And I will say I don't have the study right here, but I remember reading a lot about this. And Barry, I completely forgot about this. And clearly, I forgot. Maybe this is why I'm so confused. There's an entire book about this, an important caveat, because everything I just said was mostly, I think, supportive of cheese. Dr. Neal Bernard, who is a very renowned and intense vegan doctor, I had him on the show once, but he wrote a book called The Cheese Trap, how breaking a surprising addiction will help you lose weight, gain energy, and get healthy. And again, that's obviously coming from a very, very biased perspective. But this is why I'm so confused because he does reference a lot of studies and you read that book and you're like, God, cheese is the worst thing ever. So it's just really confusing. Although I do remember, it was either in that book or it was in one of Tim Spector's book, I remember reading studies saying that cheese or dairy was definitively not linked to acne. And I just think that's not true, because if I eat cheese, I break out. Okay, that's all I have to say.

Barry Conrad
Really? Mm-hmm.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And, and, and, and here's the thing, Barry, because I remember when I read this, it was every now and then I read a, like a moment, like I read a study and I have a moment. And it was that moment for me because the study was very like definitive that cheese and dairy do not cause acne.

And I, like I eat such a consistent diet with very little change that if I add in something that's very different, I will like notice if something is off, I'm like a very good controlled experiment basically. And yeah, cheese will make me break out.

Barry Conrad
That's interesting i've never heard of anyone say that before so that is but you you are the the perfect candidate for the biggest.

Melanie Avalon
You've never heard people say that they break out? I hear it all the time.

Barry Conrad
From cheese no more like chocolate and stuff but then chocolate has dairy in it so

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I don't know if it's like the hormonal profile or oh, now I'm getting flashbacks to the cheese trap book. He talks a lot about like the issues of the hormones in cheese because and I agree with that because of the way like, especially if it's like not grass fed, I should emphasize that I would go make sure you get like grass fed organic, if possible cheese made from like a two milk rather than a one milk and you want these cultured like old fermented forms rather than like conventional cheese at the store that's probably can be full of like hormones from the from the cow's milk. It can be full of, you know, endocrine disruptors and problematic compounds and things like that. So I think the sourcing is really important.

And how long can I talk about cheese? I'm going to stop talking about cheese now. What are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
It's so good though. And it is one of those things where it's like we call, Melanie and I have these calls off the podcast when we call them mythical calls. I feel like cheese is a bit mythical because it's not, it never seems to be like a clear cut thing to me ever. You know, it's like what I do know is what I eat and what I do have of cheese is a lot of low fat cottage cheese, Damien, like I'll slap that on a rice cake with some cottage cheese with a slice of tomato. It's so good.

And low fat cottage cheese is super high in protein. It's 24, about 24, 28 grams of protein per cup, which is a lot. Super low fat, really good. Also, I have a lot of, since being here, a lot of Parmesan actually melt because I've been making, I bought a pasta maker, so I've been making a lot more pasta and using a lot of Parmesan cheese. So that's high in protein too, a little bit fattier. Damien, I would say it is how Mel said it's about how you handle it and knowing your body. I don't go overboard personally, but I do eat a fair bit of cottage cheese. As I said, it's easy to digest for me. It's honestly one of those things that somehow works with everything. When you break your fast, a lunch, even a post-workout snack, and also not going to lie, like some low fat shredded cheddar. I use that when I was doing Destiny, I made a lot of home made pieces, like I buy the base, but then put a lot of cheddar on there, low fat, that's pretty good, and melt them into a bowl of chili even, even on a burger, made from ground beef, if it gives you that extra flavor kick as well. But again, go for that, like Mel said as well, make sure you know what the sauce is. Go for the real stuffed them and not the ultra processed slices that look like they could survive a nuclear winter and use it to elevate the meal, not dominate the meal. Yeah, cheese definitely has a spot on my plate. Just be informed where you're getting it from, and that your body's cool with dairy. It's one of life's joys. I love a cheese board, and let's be honest, a homemade burger without cheese, and that's just like a meat patty with an identity crisis. We need to like the cheese. But yeah, just make sure you know where you're getting it from. But yeah, I love it personally.

Melanie Avalon
Love, love, love. That made me think of a few last quick thoughts.

Oh my goodness. I think we've talked about this on the show before. I think a reason in theory that you would think cheese would cause a lot of weight gain is because it's literally a hormonal food, not like because it has hormones from, it's from milk, which is a food literally made to grow a baby and also bond the baby to the mother. So it's really high in case of morphins, which are basically like morphine-like substances in the dairy. And that's why it can be really addictive for some people. And I think it actually depends on people's personal case of morphine receptors. So that might be why some people are more addicted to cheese and dairy than others. So like for me, it just lights me up, like lights me up. It feels like a drug. And then just speaking of the mythical call, oh wait, no, before that, before that, also look into cheese is like goat cheese and sheep cheese. Do you like other types of cheese? Cheese is.

Barry Conrad
I love Goji so much, especially when doing a charcuterie board. Like that's, that's the style of the board. Like a good Goji is really, really good.

Melanie Avalon
What's your favorite cheese?

Barry Conrad
I like a good Swiss cheese. I do like a good goat cheese. I don't love a lot of... I do like blue cheese, contrary to what a lot of people don't like. I love blue cheese.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes, I feel like blue cheese is polarizing. Some people hate it.

Barry Conrad
I love it so much I don't get the hate around why do people hate it is it just because they think it stinks or they don't just don't like the taste.

Melanie Avalon
I think so, yeah. Some people do not like blue cheese. I love blue cheese.

Barry Conrad
It's so more-ish, like you just want to keep eating it, you know?

Melanie Avalon
More-ish you want to keep eating more? Yeah. Have you had manchego? That's my favorite

Barry Conrad
Yes, i forgot about man show going on now now i'm getting inspired for this weekend festivities like making a charcuterie with full of good cheeses.

Melanie Avalon
Mmm, so good. And also flashbacks. Do you remember when I was making my own cottage cheese?

Barry Conrad
I think I do remember this, and okay, did making it inspire you to keep making it, or is like, this is too complicated, or you didn't like the taste of it, or how it made you feel?

Melanie Avalon
The thing that I'm annoyed about is I timed it incorrectly because cottage cheese had its moment. I mean, it's still pretty popular, but it got really, really popular and I swear Barry, it got popular six months after I was posting all my cottage cheese stuff.

Not because of me, but if I had waited six months, I would have been right at the timing to have content that resonated with people. But yeah, I started making it because I wanted, I couldn't find fat-free cottage cheese that didn't have additives. So I was like, I'll just make my own. It's like a science experiment, it's wild. You should do it.

Barry Conrad
Did it taste good? How did it taste?

Melanie Avalon
So if you if you literally they say you can't I mean they say some of the things say you can't make Fat-free cut like that. You can't make cottage cheese out of fat-free milk.

I did they're lying but um It kind of tastes like It's like more like ricotta It's basically just like pure protein But it's why I swear it's like you're in harry potter making it. It's so fun I really recommend you have to like time in and like use the the thermometer and then you pour in the vinegar and then it like Does this reaction it's wild

Barry Conrad
Is it a long process?

Melanie Avalon
I got really good at it and I did it like every day for a couple months and then it was pretty easy to do, but it does require, I don't even remember how long it took. It's not that long, but you do have to let something sit at some point.

I'm not sure. I would make it in the day and then have it ready at night. And then I went down the rabbit hole. I was like, I'm going to make mozzarella cheese. And then I was like, I'm not going to because that process is wild.

Barry Conrad
mozzarella. That actually makes me think of a friend of mine when I was in Melbourne, she was like, just, just let it, she was saying like a director used to say, just mozzarella, mozzarella that moment, like, just stretch it out a bit, which is hilarious.

Melanie Avalon
And I do like mozzarella, I used to love like cheese sticks, like fried cheese sticks, mozzarella.

Barry Conrad
Oh, Melanie, this is totally off topic, but I'll park that and talk about it a little bit. It relates to sticks. Oh my gosh. I have to talk about this.

Melanie Avalon
It relates to what? Oh, to steak. To sticks. Oh, sticks. To sticks, like wooden sticks.

Barry Conrad
Edible sticks. I'll have to talk about it maybe on the next show. It's really funny.

Melanie Avalon
Edible wooden sticks? I am so intrigued. Listeners have to keep listening.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you have to keep listening.

Melanie Avalon
and the one thing I was going to say about the mythical call, when Barry and I have these mythical calls, we literally talk about this stuff. Like, actually.

Like, we'll talk about fasting for like an hour. Like, we didn't just talk about it for, you know, however long.

Barry Conrad
It's not, Melanie was like, we were talking the last time. And she was like, this is so, we're still talking about it. This is like the after show to the.

Melanie Avalon
People need to know we're authentic.

Barry Conrad
It's not just, we're not just coming on here, just like putting on this thing. We actually love, we geek out on it.

Melanie Avalon
We don't just talk about that though, we talk about other stuff too, but I'm just saying.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, come on, guys. There's other stuff too. Okay. Damon, we hope that was helpful. Please let us know what your favorite cheese is going to be, what you end up eating, and what you like.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, please, please report back and would love to hear from listeners in general about the cheese question. Do we want to answer one more quick question? Maybe the, maybe Marissa's carnitine question. Let's do it.

Okay. I'll read. So we have a question from Marissa and this is from Facebook. Everybody can join IF Biohackers intervention fasting plus real foods plus life on Facebook. We have a lot of engagement there and you can ask questions and Marissa said, after listening to you answer the question about el carnitine, I purchased Thorne brand to take before my workouts. If I always work out fasted, am I stopping autophagy when I take it?

Barry Conrad
Hmm. Well, Maris, thank you so much for your question. I hope you're doing great today. Really glad that you asked us because it is something that people do quietly wonder about and, you know, whether they should start using supplements in general around fasted workouts. And so, first of all, good on you for actually paying attention and doing some research, not just, you know, guessing and choosing a clean brand like Thorne and checking in how it fits into your fasting rhythm. So let's talk about this and whether it shuts down autophagy when you take it. The short answer is no. I mean, taking pure alkalatin before you train won't technically stop autophagy in any meaningful way. And I know that's the real heart of what you're asking because you want the performance boost without interrupting that good old cellular clean that we get, you know, when we fast. So alkalatin isn't, it's not a calorie source. Maris, so your body actually produces it naturally from amino acids like lysine and methionine. And its whole job is sort of like a shuttle, like it helps shuttle fatty acids into your mitochondria so that your body can burn them more efficiently for energy. So when you take it as a supplement, you're not giving your body food. You're giving it like a tool, almost like handing someone a key rather than a meal meal. So autophagy responds to things that trigger digestion instead. So and that raise insulin or signal like the body to shift into that feeding state. So pure alkalatin doesn't do that. Maris, it has no calories, no carbs. It doesn't create that insulin spike. So your fast stays nice and clean.

Your body stays in that low sort of nutrient sensing state where autophagy can keep doing its thing. And you get to keep training hard and reaping those benefits. What you do have to be careful, I would say, be careful of is the formulation. So meaning some flavored versions of anything really have blends. So these blends like sneak in sweeteners or fillers and things like that. So you really want to check, you know, what the formulation is. So those can interrupt the fast for sure if they bump your insulin up. So but the plain thorn alkalatin is exactly what you want for fasting. It's clean, nothing extra, simple. You can just take it with water before you train and your fast stays right intact. Now, Maris, you also said that you always work hard faster. Me too. Love it so much. I'm the same. I love training in that faster state because you get you feel that clarity and that sort of lightness and focus and drive, all that really good stuff that hits for me. And supplements like electrolytes creatine, alkalatin actually support that fasted training, Maris, without getting in the way. So it helps you. It actually helps you maintain muscle boost performance and keep that energy steady during a long fast, which is kind of what you want.

Barry Conrad
You know, and just to add as well, I'd say we said this before in the podcast, autophagy is not it's not like a light switch or button. It's not like on off sort of thing. It doesn't suddenly turn off if you breathe wrong or, you know, sit wrong or whatever, whatever it ramps up and down across your fast. So even if something nudged it slightly, which alkalatin doesn't, as far as we know, your overall process would still be moving in the right direction. You're still doing the work, still giving your body that space to repair.

So I'd say you're not stopping autophagy. You're not breaking your fast. Maris, you're supporting your training in a way that is really working for you. And so keep doing what you're doing. And it's the research that you're doing into this as well. It's all it's all the secret of making fasting a long term sustainable part of life. So thanks so much for the question, Maris. Mel, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
So you perfectly nailed that. The only thing I will add is, interestingly, there are actually some studies showing that that L-carnitine might actually increase or induce autophagy.

Wow. Yeah. So there's one called, let's see, carnitine induces autophagy and restores high-fat diet induced mitochondrial dysfunction. So in that one, that was six weeks of mice on a high-fat diet and they had glucose intolerance from the high-fat diet. And then when they were given carnitine supplementation, it actually reversed and helped their insulin signaling and actually induced markers of autophagy. So that's cool. And then there was another study called L-carnitine and acetyl L-carnitine induced metabolism alteration and mitophagy related cell death in colorectal cancer cells. And in that study, they actually found that in cancer cells, adding L-carnitine actually, again, supported the, they call it the autophagy flux and helped the mitochondria and actually stimulated mitophagy, which is autophagy specifically happening in the mitochondria. And the mitochondria are the powerhouses of our cells. So getting rid of dysfunctional mitochondria is really, really good for our bodies and recycling them. And that is mitophagy process. And it looks like L-carnitine might actually support that. So that's cool.

Barry Conrad
I've been waiting for this a while, let's do it. Me?

Melanie Avalon
So Barry, I actually have, okay, I have two restaurants and one, I just want to tell you about it because the menu is not online, but it's in New York and I found it and I just want to like tell you about it and then we can do the actual restaurant. Okay, so you might have heard of it.

Have you heard of Community Kitchen?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I have heard of this.

Melanie Avalon
It's in New York, and they have a seven-course upscale menu that is worth, I guess, $125, but the purpose of the restaurant is to make dining affordable to people. So you pay what you want, basically. So depending on what you can afford, you can pay just $15, you can pay $45. If you pay that, that's what it's actually costing the restaurant. And then if you can afford to pay more, you could pay what they would normally charge for it, which is like $125.

And they're also all into quality and sustainability and just all the things. So it's so cool. I was thinking you could go there some time and tell us what it's like. But it's called Community Kitchen.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, because I just I went to the website now and straight away a pop up came up said you invited to Community Kitchen Lower East Side Girls Club to showcase food justice and action and support of the Lower East Side Girls. Yeah, I love that it's purpose driven, which I love that.

So I reckon I'm going to bookmark this right now for sure. That sounds great. I love that idea of, you know, paying what you can afford. I think that's so cool and so necessary for the city.

Melanie Avalon
So the founder, Mark Bittman, he actually teamed up with a James Beard award-winning chef, Mavis J. Sanders in the kitchen, and Jose Andres is actually on the board of the restaurant. And then they pay the employees over $32 an hour. That's amazing.

That's awesome. So, and they say, oh, this is, they don't police the idea. Oh, so they ask you to pay based on your income, but they don't actually police that, and it's really just whatever you want to pay.

Barry Conrad
I love this idea so much. I'm genuinely going to look into this and get along.

Melanie Avalon
Yay, yay, okay. I know I was going to do it for our restaurant, but then I realized there's not, they don't have a menu online. And then for my actual restaurant that I picked, so one more haunted restaurant. I know I'll do one more haunted restaurant and then we'll let the haunted ones go.

But I like this one for multiple reasons because not only is it haunted, but it's pirate themed and it's in Georgia where I'm from. So it's just like too many good things to pass up. So it's in Savannah.

Barry Conrad
And what inspired you to get to choose this one? Was it just sort of like in the, when you were hunting for the other ones, or are you just this really caught your eye? Tell me why it caught your eye.

Melanie Avalon
because I have so many haunted restaurants on my list. I was like, let me try to get one that hits a lot of different things I like, which is I love a good theme, I love pirates, I love Savannah, Georgia.

Have you been to Savannah?

Barry Conrad
I actually haven't. I have been to Atlanta. Tell me, tell me something. Oh, Gainesville? I've been to... Is Gainesville?

Melanie Avalon
in? No, it's not. I should know where that is. That's in Georgia, right? Yeah, I think

Barry Conrad
So because I've been there and Atlanta, but never Savannah

Melanie Avalon
Savannah is such an old school America haunted cool vibe. So this one is called The Pirate's House. It's a pirate themed restaurant in Savannah and it sits in what is said to be the oldest building in Georgia and the most haunted building in Savannah. And if you're saying the most haunted in Savannah, that's saying a lot because Savannah is known for being a haunted city, like in general.

So there have been reports of apparitions, footsteps of old sailors, noises and moans from the now closed off tunnel near the basement of the building. So I sent it to you. Oh, and, and oh wait, Barry, they have a gift shop. Do you like to see the gift shop?

Barry Conrad
You love, okay, I'll be having a look. You love gift shops. I'm clicking on the gift.

Melanie Avalon
This is a legit gift shop too, do you see the pictures?

Barry Conrad
That's cool. I see mermaids. I see it's massive.

Melanie Avalon
T-shirts organized in a rainbow?

Barry Conrad
There's a whole lot going on in this gift shop, guys. It's like, there's t-shirts, there's merch, there's, looks like magnets, beanies, power it up.

Melanie Avalon
That's all pirate themed.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's a situation. There's like sunglasses, the whole thing is massive.

Melanie Avalon
Do not tempt me with a gift shop. Oh, Barry, the gift shop at the Georgia Aquarium. One of the best. Really? Yeah.

Barry Conrad
really solid why do you okay tell me why because a lot of people some people you okay people either love gift shops or they're like indifferent why why does melanie eveline love gift shops so much is it a disney thing is it uh just a from childhood thing what tell me

Melanie Avalon
It is and by the way, I have the gift shop like carousel of pictures circulating and one of them just popped up. Do you see there's like an animatronic pirate in like the corner? Oh my gosh.

Okay, to answer your question, it's because and it's hard for me because I'm trying to get rid of stuff and you know, I don't want to support overwhelming materialism and consumerism and all this stuff. And at the same time, normally when you're in a gift shop, okay, if you're like having your normal life, right, there's not you're not like going in gift shops, gift shops happen after an experience of some sort in life. Typically, I mean, maybe always. So the point is, it's a chance for you to like, see the experience that you have manifest and physical items. And then you can pick one that really brings happiness to you and speaks to your soul and you can bring that home and then you can remember that time.

Barry Conrad
I would agree with that like for example i went to the guggenheim museum have you heard of this museum in new york and it's pretty amazing stunning but there was a gift shop in there as well and that when you say give some of me think of that cuz there was recent i didn't love the gift shop i don't think you'd like it was okay wasn't as big as this haunted. It's not as big as the pirates house gift shop that's it.

Melanie Avalon
but you understand like it capturing a memento of. It does.

Yes. You've got to find the thing in there that really speaks to you and what's the one thing? Gift shops. Okay. So, menu. Shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it, I'm clicking on, should we click on the dinner one, the dinner one or the lunch dinner? Gotta do dinner.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and for listeners, the purpose of this part of the show is like we were talking about in the beginning, we love celebrating the food that we eat in our eating meal because fasting is not just about fasting. It's about the eating part as well, which is actually how you, I mean, really get the benefits is, you know, all of the nutrients that you've taken.

So appetizers.

Barry Conrad
Melanie there's a lot here a lot of options okay here we go uh what are you getting

Melanie Avalon
Mine is so easy.

Barry Conrad
Peeve Carpaccio.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Beef carpaccio. Do you want the stuff?

So it comes with shishito peppers. Oh my goodness, here we go with all the names. A chermola, aioli, grated parmesan, capers, black chili oil, and black sea salt served with bread. Shall I get all of that on the side so then you can have some?

Barry Conrad
I would love that, and that all sounds really good to me. I'm also going to get a serving of that, and I do love the look of the corn fritters with blackened shrimp mel. That comes with roasted corn and peppers mixed with the cornmeal batter and griddle seed served with blackened shrimp and a side of green tomato. Ciao ciao!

What is that? Finished with a drizzle of Chipotle aioli.

Yum, that sounds delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Now we are. Do you want a salad? Do you want a gem from their salad galley?

Barry Conrad
Let's see, I like the titles by the way, James from our salad galley, you know, I think for the table, maybe a superfood salad wouldn't be so bad. I like the sound of that baby, superfood greens with radishes and mandarins, fresh grapes, fried wontons with the fig vinaigrette.

Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
I love that you know I'm not eating any of the salad and you're like for the table.

Barry Conrad
Okay yeah this is gonna be good for me actually eat not because people think like all think i'm sharing all the food with my my guest that's like really for me.

Melanie Avalon
Nope. Okay.

So now for the entrees, which is Captain Flint's favorites. Oh wait, and entrees. Okay. So there's multiple, I gotta, I gotta make it smaller. So there's an entree section and there's Captain Flint's favorites. So we have a lot of options here.

Barry Conrad
I can see something that I already know that you would like. Oh, well, there's actually quite a few great options here. What are you going to pick, Mel? What do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, there are so many things. It's a lot of fish, a lot of steak, and a lot of seafood.

Barry Conrad
We're going to have to ask for quite a big table or we're going to say can we please have the big table because a few things I want to get actually for this.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I will okay. What's one of the ones that you see? This is really hard for me.

Oh, I see one. I want what I actually really want the seared Cheshire prime pork tenderloin. I'm feeling some pork right now.

Barry Conrad
Fork on you, fork.

Melanie Avalon
pork on my fork comes with herb marinated Cheshire prime pork tenderloin finished with a green tomato what is this green tomato chow chow stuff um sliced over mashed sweet potatoes and sauteed broccolini oh they have broccolini so i might actually get that completely plain and as rare as they'll give it to me it's i know it's pork with like some steamed broccolini on the side

Barry Conrad
I do love a good steamed broccolini. I think the chow chow to me, it kind of sounds like a salsa or something, like a green tomato chow chow-ish. I reckon I'm gonna get three things. So here we go.

Pirates House Award-winning honey pecan fried chicken. So signature honey pecan, you say pecan, I say pecan. Pecan sauce drizzled over perfectly marinated fried chicken, served with sauteed vegetables and mashed sweet potatoes. The second one that I've gotta do is shrimp gumbo because I love gumbo so much. Sautéed shrimp and dule sausage in a class and dewy. Listen, actually pause for a second. Melanie sent me this article, which I should have referenced before this episode. And she said, we need, this is for us. It's like basically an article for people who get names on menus wrong. Ha ha ha. So we apologize to this restaurant and all restaurants. Okay, and it also comes with savannah red rice and a house made bread. And then last but not least,

Melanie Avalon
You missed what it comes with, because I was going to ask you if you've had this, because this is like a staple Southern thing. Okra both? Okra, yes. Have you had okra? Have you had fried okra?

Barry Conrad
I can say that I have not. What does that taste like?

Melanie Avalon
So fried okra is a very staple southern vegetable, but it's, so okra is weird. It's like this green vegetable that's kind of like mucusy on the inside, but they fry it. It, I really liked it growing up, fried at least.

But if you, if you're in the South and you see fried okra, you're going to have to get some because it's, it has a very interesting texture.

Barry Conrad
It sounds really interesting. I've never actually heard it before.

Melanie Avalon
It's like these little balls that pop in your mouth.

Barry Conrad
I've never ever seen or heard of this before until today. There's like fried, yeah, there's like kind of ones you can pop in like a little dip over there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, people. Yep.

Barry Conrad
Okay. And we'll learn something new every day.

I didn't know about that. And then last but not least, I was going to go for the seafood harvest platter, but I feel like even though I love oysters so much, I feel like I'm going to, because there's no oysters on their own, I'm just going to do a filet mignon actually, which is quill to your liking, served with mashed potatoes, salted broccolini, and topped with a house-made steak sauce. Sounds like a party in my tummy.

Melanie Avalon
What did you think I was going to get when you said you saw?

Barry Conrad
filet mignon.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, but I changed it up with a tenderloin. I also kind of want the Scottish salmon, the charred, crusted sumac salmon valet topped with Georgia peach, Georgia peach, but I should know this word, piccally, I don't know, served with mashed sweet potatoes and sauteed broccolini. So I'll just have some plain Scottish salmon.

That sounds good.

Barry Conrad
We're gonna have a big table, so this is gonna be fine. It's gonna be all fine. It's all good.

Melanie Avalon
It's all good. Shall we get dessert?

Barry Conrad
Ah, let's see what they've, whoa, what is that photo on the top? It's a crumbed sort of situation.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they say dessert of the day so they don't, they don't tell you what it is unless you're a little pirate. They got the kids, the kids dessert.

Barry Conrad
is like a Sunday like a bit this is gonna be actually you know what Mel because it's America I reckon the size is probably like the equivalent of like an Australian normal dessert probably for the kids one.

Melanie Avalon
Most likely, have you, now that you've been here a while, have you noticed the food? Does it make you feel any different eating the food here?

Barry Conrad
Do you know what, Melanie, I was actually kind of anticipating maybe feeling kind of different from different foods. But honestly, to be really honest, like, no, like I don't feel like my tummy has been unsettled. I don't feel no digestive issues at all, like zero. And I've eaten like array of food, like had like sort of New Orleans type cuisine in Washington, D.C. recently had just some, you know, Japanese fusion over here, American style food over here, pasta, bread, lots of things. And I feel my tummy feels pretty good. So, so far, so good.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. I was wondering if you were like making your own pasta because you realized the pasta here is not the best.

Barry Conrad
Well, yes. I mean, it's not like it doesn't taste the best. I would say, OK, let me zoom out. It does.

I don't feel any different eating it like physically, but the taste isn't as great of different things like the bread's not generally like store-bought bread is not generally that great. Animal protein generally, unless it's from like a good butcher, isn't always great, like things like that. And it's hard to find a good fishmonger. So things don't taste as good good so far, like, you know, to date, but I mean, I don't feel bad eating it.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I love that you're making your own, but it's kind of like when Jim was here, she was making her bread and then Vanessa would make, she would make all of these different keto things. I don't know if Cynthia made things.

I make cottage cheese and you make pasta.

Barry Conrad
I think you'd actually like my pasta Mel, how do you digest pasta, you go to the pasta?

Melanie Avalon
No, I don't eat pasta. I do have, I do actually, well, the gluten and the grains, but I do actually have a weed allergy, so.

Barry Conrad
Okay, well, there goes that. There's other stuff. I made cornbread the other night.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's a good, that's southern staple.

Barry Conrad
Anyway, I digress, so dessert, I guess we'll...

Melanie Avalon
have to see what the dessert of the day is. Do you see a drink that you want?

Barry Conrad
Oh, drinks, here we go, drinks, here we go. Okay, so we have feature cocktails. Guess what I'm gonna get, Mel? The Pirates Margarita. Yeah, you already know.

Like, it's just like very standard for me to get a margarita and then probably like a good, you know what? I've kind of intended to try a beer as well, like a local beer at this restaurant for some reason.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and they have local Georgia wine.

Barry Conrad
maybe a beer and a wine like a white wine a beer and a cocktail.

Melanie Avalon
nice do they have the list of the beers let me look at the wine and see if there's anything this might be a uh okay i know i literally know every single red on this menu this is definitely going to be a sneaking wine in or bringing actually no no wait i'll bring a bottle of wine not sneak it in like pay a corkage fee

Barry Conrad
Oh, they do? Oh, that's so good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, did they do that in Australia?

Barry Conrad
They do. It's not like super common, but they do. Yeah, but they do some places.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's pretty, it's not abnormal at all. And if it's a fancy restaurant, it's actually, it's weird because at a fancy restaurant, you would think you would order wine from the wine list, but also people will bring in, you know, like they're really expensive, fancy bottles of wine. So it's not, it's not uncommon.

I had when I was working in fine dining, a lot of people would bring in bottles of wine.

Barry Conrad
So you're going to bring in a bottle of wine. We can enjoy that. And we have quite a feast there. So it sounds like a good situation to me.

Melanie Avalon
And then we can go to the gift shop.

Barry Conrad
And you get to say that.

Melanie Avalon
I just ran on the FAQ and they have over 700 items just waiting, just waiting for us.

Barry Conrad
I think, you know, what you can picture basically from the scenario is Mel will be dragging me into the gift store and I'll be like, Oh, this is really fun.

Melanie Avalon
You'll have so much fun. And then I'll like show you all the things.

There are some like staple things that I like to like, there's like categories of, do you have like category staple things to get at gift shops? Because I do.

Barry Conrad
I don't like, okay, I don't get the queuing thing because no one ever keeps them. They lose them. So not really key rings.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, have we not talked about this? Barry, have you seen my keychain, my keys?

No, have I? Okay, so every musical I go to, if they have a keychain and buy a keychain and I add it to my ever-growing blob of keychains, I'm that person with like, like the keychain is the size of like a small animal.

Barry Conrad
Okay, you're an endangered species then because a lot of people that I buy key have more key chains for in the past just like, oh, sorry, bro, I lost it or I don't have it anymore. So you don't you keep them.

Melanie Avalon
And, and I have like, there's like so many of them, you never lose your keys. Cause there's like 50 key chains on.

Barry Conrad
I need to see this. This is sort of rattles. So when you walk around you just like a rattle.

Melanie Avalon
It's heavy, too. There you go.

So I get a key chain or I get like a magnet, although I'm running out of room on the fridge. I love when they have Christmas ornaments because that's something you can really use. And then when you decorate the tree, you have the memory.

Barry Conrad
That is actually a really good idea, ornaments for the tree. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
Christmas ornaments are like a no-brainer, so. Although here, we might have to get like a shot glass or something, because it's, you know, pirate.

Barry Conrad
I can get done with that. I love a chocolat, so like a whiskey tumbler or something. Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, this was super fun. Friends, thank you so much for spending your time with us. We appreciate you so much.

These show notes for today's episode will have links to everything that we talked about. Definitely check them out. They will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 454, and you can find all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. You can submit your own questions for the show by directly emailing questions at ifpodcast.com, or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much listeners for all your support and for tuning in again this week, and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye, Mom. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Welcome to Episode 453 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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STUDIES

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Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 453 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 453 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. And Barry, let's see, this episode airs, oh my goodness, when this comes out, it will almost be Christmas. It will be December 22nd. So Merry Christmas.

Barry Conrad
That's crazy. Also, hey, listeners, hey, Mel, this is a moment. This is a few days. This airs a few days before my first official Christmas living here. So it's pretty big deal.

Melanie Avalon
It's gonna be so magical for you, I'm so excited.

Barry Conrad
I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
I'm excited to hear which Christmas carol you like the most with your new newfound experience of being in the cold during Christmas.

Barry Conrad
You know what? All the carols just make sense when it's a white Christmas, right?

Melanie Avalon
White Christmas, baby, it's cold outside, sleigh bells, whatever.

Barry Conrad
Do you have do you have a Christmas playlist when you oh, yes, you do

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, yes. I add to it every year.

So it's got all my favorites from like ever, because every year new singles come out by all the pop artists and stuff, so I add my favorite new singles every year to it. It's forever growing.

Barry Conrad
have, and you may not yet, do you have plans for the holidays yet?

Melanie Avalon
I'm seeing a lot of shows. I know that.

I'm seeing Christmas Canteen, Elf, Christmas Cirque du Soleil, one more Christmas-related thing. Probably a Christmas carol, and then I think one more. Oh, Transabrian Orchestra. That's five.

Barry Conrad
You, hands down, and I've told you this before, but listeners, I will share it with you. I think, Melanie, out of everyone that I know in my life, actually, truthfully, sees more shows than anyone else.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's wild to me. I know one person you see, I know somebody who sees more than me, my friend Sarah. She sees everything that I see and then some more.

Barry Conrad
I really like it because you're supporting the arts, you're getting out there and having fun, you're not just staying home. I like it. It's great.

Melanie Avalon
so fun. But to answer your question, I don't yeah, I'm not sure actually what the situation will be on Christmas because my parents are in Sanibel. I don't know. I don't think we'll find out.

I just don't I don't like the idea of being in Florida for Christmas. Like, that's so unless I'm in Disney World, I just don't I don't I don't know if I can do it.

Barry Conrad
Otherwise you'll just stay, I mean, you'll stay home and decorate and maybe host. Do you ever host or would you more go to someone's place? No, I don't host.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, so if I had like a house, well, what's funny is growing up, I was like the party hoster for like in middle school, high school with like the theme parties and like inviting all the people and like going all out. But now, no, I don't really have the space for it. So

Barry Conrad
I like how fast you was like, no, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I just know if I had the space, I completely would for sure. For sure. That tracks. Are you going to go home for Christmas?

Barry Conrad
I'm not I'm definitely not going back to New Zealand or Australia this year because this year I'm staying here now so got to do it got to stay and I'm happy about it going to actually. Rent renting a place upstate in New York just to get just to kind of really guarantee that why Christmas because it may or may not snow on the day who knows but this is gonna give it a bit more insurance so an amazing Airbnb already booked it's going to be epic it's like.

Cabernet but locks and massive and like just has like a spa pool outside even though it's gonna be freezing and I can't actually can't wait it's gonna be so much fun.

Melanie Avalon
That sounds so magical!

Barry Conrad
It's gonna be cr- I have to show- I have to send you photos now.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, please do. That's so cool. Would you host people there? You said it's big.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we're going to have some friends and stuff like just three or four people, but just yeah, renting it together and just like having fun out there, having like a work Christmas.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm jealous. You're gonna have a white Christmas.

Barry Conrad
Yo, I really, I really hope it's not like that's why we went going upstate, you know, just to make sure. Wow.

Melanie Avalon
You're doing it right, I applaud you. You gotta do it, you gotta do it. Go to Upstate New York for Christmas.

Barry Conrad
Come to upstate New York or just find like you gotta like get amongst to get with the the snow is falling.

Melanie Avalon
Maybe it maybe it'll snow here. A Christmas miracle. It has snowed on Christmas in my life. I think maybe like twice.

Here it usually snows like once each winter season and then like that's it. And that's it. Yeah, but it does get cold, which is nice.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, well, that's good. Well, I know that you like the cold, so that'll at least be something, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Oh, I love it. I love it.

Barry Conrad
Do you have any special recipes you want to experiment cooking on Christmas? Or do you have any traditions that you have on Christmas, like drinks or anything like that?

Melanie Avalon
I always just eat my same thing I always eat, but I mean, we have traditions growing up, but I do love getting to... I feel like the holidays, it's when you're seeing people all the time. You're just going to things and drinking wine and having good cheer and everything's festive and there's kind of like in Halloween how everything is decorated. All the city gets decorated and all the restaurants put up stuff. I just love it. It's like such a good vibe.

Barry Conrad
It's my favorite time of year and I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
and you're gonna get to do it right. Not that you were doing it wrong. I know. But it's gonna, I promise you, it's gonna be more magical. I can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Barry Conrad
And I can't believe by the time this airs, people will be buying their last minute gifts or doing, you know, getting decorations. I don't know, it's gonna be such a magical time of year.

Melanie Avalon
Yep, I can't wait.

Barry Conrad
Thank you for taking time out of your day to listen, everyone.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Happy holidays. And oh, oh, speaking of, I'm hoping we're probably going to be launching my coffee line in January. That's the game plan. So hopefully that's right around the corner.

So hopefully, guys, you're on my email list for updates, which is now up. So if you go to glowcoffeeco.com, so glowcoffeeco.com, you can get on my email list there for updates. And we'll be releasing information about the lunch special, all the things. But this is going to be the perfect coffee that you want for the new year's when you're cold, because it will be organic, free of toxins and mold, very, very high in CGA content. That's how we sourced and found the beans. So CGA is the primary antioxidant in coffee that gives it so many of its health benefits. So we found beans that are naturally very high in CGA. And then we roast the beans to preserve the CGA, because depending on how you roast it, you can actually degrade that antioxidant potential. So this is going to be one of the highest antioxidant coffees, if not the highest antioxidant coffee that you can get. And it will just make you glow inside and out. And it tastes so good. It's so, so good. So that's my little plug. Go to glowcoffeeco.com.

Barry Conrad
That's so exciting, Melanie, and I love my coffee so much, and I cannot wait to try it.

Melanie Avalon
I know, you know, I can actually go ahead and send you, I haven't sent you a bag yet, right?

Barry Conrad
You haven't, but I won't be mad.

Melanie Avalon
I can yeah I can send you a bag because we have the beans now so it is so good so so good.

Barry Conrad
Is it is it beans and ground or just beans or?

Melanie Avalon
It's whole. Do you grind your own coffee or do you do ground?

Barry Conrad
I don't, but I definitely will get it ground.

Melanie Avalon
It's just so much, it's really important to me that it's whole beam because it's so much fresher when you grind it yourself, tastes fresher, tastes better, less degradation of the antioxidants and also less potential for mold to form because ground coffee is more likely to form mold. So that's why it's really important to me that it's ground.

And if you haven't ground coffee before, if you have not, yeah, I guess ground coffee yourself, it's really not hard friends. Like it's so easy. Like you can get a, on Amazon, you can get a grinder and it is, I can't even express how easy it is because I think people think it's intimidating, but it's not. You just like put the beans into the grinder, push it down and now you have ground coffee. So easy. Like it's literally one tiny extra step for so many benefits.

Barry Conrad
cannot wait.

Melanie Avalon
So yeah, anything new in your life before we jump into things?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I am obsessed with the show at the moment, actually. It's called The Pit. Have you watched it?

Melanie Avalon
The pit? Yeah. No, what's it on?

Barry Conrad
It's on HBO, I'm pretty sure, but it's amazing. I don't know, are you queasy about asking this before? Are you queasy about like medical shows or anything like that?

Melanie Avalon
So like, it's like, let's just like literal, like here's the ER and here's surgery happening type.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I don't like, so I don't over, I wouldn't not watch something because of it. I probably, I might look away.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, it's very graphic. The way they do it is amazing. It's incredible. Obviously, it's fiction. It's not like a documentary-type real show.

It's not real people, but it's incredible acting, amazing performances. It's kind of like a medical thriller meets psychological horror because it's like Grey's Anatomy. If Grey's Anatomy got locked into a haunted hospital after dark, it's gory in parts, but it's so well done. Really addictive. Yeah, just incredible.

Melanie Avalon
and it's a haunted hospital.

Barry Conrad
It's not, but it's just like there's so many crazy it just kind of reaffirms how much these doctors go through like we're living our lives and doing, you know, life is hard anyway, but doctors in the ER just it's a lot.

Melanie Avalon
I'm so in awe of nurses and doctors in the ER, it's like, I'm so grateful.

Barry Conrad
So grateful so it's it drives home that but also it's it's incredible as well because they save these lives and so it's it's heartwarming It's not just all gore but the gore is I don't know It's kind of you watch it and you kind of go like how have they done that to make it look like that? like so real

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I probably would look away. Yeah, you can do a lot by looking away.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny.

Melanie Avalon
It's funny. So for gore, I look away for like horror. I plug my ears.

Barry Conrad
Oh, so you, because we've never actually talked about this before. I've actually never asked you, are you a queasy person when it comes to watching, you know, killing people or anything like that or gory scenes?

Melanie Avalon
Can I tell you a funny story? Have I told you my Patriot story? Obviously, you know the Patriot, like the Mel Gibson movie, which I love that movie. Do you like that movie?

Barry Conrad
Of course. And he's the man. He's such an amazing actor.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, he's incredible. So I was the tech girl. Actually, I was a lot of girls. I was a lot of things in high school, but one of my mini roles, I was the tech girl. So I did the sound booth and stuff for our chapel and all the auditorium stuff. I was running tech for it and things like that, which was great because it was so great. I got to hang out in the sound booth during all the chapels. I mean, it's just much more comfortable to be in a room and not be down there.

But in any case, so this was a middle school and I was obsessed with a Patriot and my history teacher wanted us to watch it. I don't know. I think she mentioned it. She was saying how she wished we could watch it, but it's rated R and we were in middle school. So I volunteered to edit it myself. And this was before, I don't know how I even did it, but I ran either the VHS or the DVD. I captured it. I ran the entire movie onto my computer. I captured it some really sketchy way, got it onto my computer and then I edited it. I took out the bad words. I took out like the really graphic stuff and then I put it back onto like something and then we watched within the entire like middle school watched it.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, what the...

Melanie Avalon
Isn't that funny? Totally forgot about that.

Barry Conrad
What prompted that memory? What made you think about that?

Melanie Avalon
Because we were talking about Gory and I was thinking about what was my first memories of like Gory movies and some of the scenes in the Patriot really did a number on me.

Barry Conrad
I'm so impressed that you did that by the way, like how did you even know how to do that and what, how did, what did you use to do it? That's pretty impressive.

Melanie Avalon
The way I had to do it was so complicated. It's coming back to me now. I had to run it. I had to hook up my camcorder, my video camera to the TV, hook up my video camera to my computer, and somehow I was able to get it onto my computer. I don't know how I did it, to be honest, but I did.

I did. Tech girl. Yeah. And it was like a three-hour movie.

Barry Conrad
You said what you just went through the whole things like okay and just meticulously edit it.

Melanie Avalon
I took out all of the curse words I took out. Is there a sex scene? I might've taken that out if there is one. And then I took out, yeah, like the really gory stuff.

Barry Conrad
And how did you present it afterwards? It was like, hey, everyone, I know this movie is out before you jump to any conclusions or freak out. I've edited it so we can watch it.

Melanie Avalon
I don't remember the conversation leading up to it. I think I just volunteered to my history teacher. I think I was just like, you know, I can edit this for you if we want to, if you want us to watch it. And I think they were like, okay, anyone's funny.

This is what's funny. They just trusted me because I don't think they like watched. I think we watched it live. Like I think I brought it in, we just watched it. So they, I guess I just assumed I was going to edit it correctly.

Barry Conrad
That's amazing, actually. I'm like, look at you, tech girl.

Melanie Avalon
I had a lot of really random high school stories, so.

Barry Conrad
Be good listeners, you know, so Melanie the tech girl, what about the other things you said something else? You're like

Melanie Avalon
I was the honor council girl. I was like on the honor council. Did you have that at your school growing up? I think that's a,

Barry Conrad
American thing, what did you do for the honor council?

Melanie Avalon
It's wild. I don't think it's a good, I don't think, I don't think it's probably a good thing.

It's, it's like, there was like four of us and we would, we would see, quote, cases. So when, when, when students did things that they were in trouble for, they had to come talk to us. And then we had to decide their punishment. It's like Harry Potter.

Barry Conrad
even though you were in school.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean there was teachers in there too, but they wanted like the student perspective.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. Let's decide your fate.

Melanie Avalon
I would not let high schoolers determine the other high schoolers' fate. But in their defense, I mean, I don't know, it was like the students, we were the good kids in the council.

Barry Conrad
Did you, what was the worst thing that you, what was the worst punishment you gave, remember?

Melanie Avalon
I don't remember, to be honest. I don't think anybody was expelled or anything, but I think, I mean, I think there's probably definitely like, I don't remember.

Barry Conrad
I was a prefect. Do you have prefects here?

Melanie Avalon
That sounds like something, don't they have that in Harry Potter?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I feel like it's, I don't know if it's the honor council, but it's like, yeah, you get like selected and you get like a badge and you wear it on your blazer and like, you know, it's, you gotta be like a high achiever and like good, like a role model and stuff. It's, it's a thing.

Melanie Avalon
you wear your badge around school.

Barry Conrad
You do, like a prefix, because we had uniforms like Harry Potter styles like school uniforms like that.

Melanie Avalon
We did too. Really? Yeah. We didn't have prefix though.

But I've heard that before. I've heard it in like, I think I read it bad about it, like in novels and stuff growing up. I probably would have been, I would, I definitely would have been a prefix.

Barry Conrad
Student, often a senior chosen by staff to act as a leader role model and help her for the school. They're responsible for upholding school rules, assisting teachers, supervising younger students.

And represent that. Yeah. That's exactly what we did.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we would have been in the same, actually, I don't know if we would have been in the same. We probably would have been in similar circles.

Probably. Because you would have been in the honor classes and stuff, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, special badge, blazer, stripe or tie. Did you wear ties?

Melanie Avalon
Only in elementary school for PRPE uniform was horrendous. I did not like it.

Barry Conrad
I can't picture you wearing a tie, it's not really Melanie Avalon coated.

Melanie Avalon
Ever since I worked at Reese Crisp, Beverly Hills, and had to wear a tie, I think I told you this, like I was like, I'm never wearing a tie ever again. Like I'm not, I'm just not.

I feel bad for men, they're not comfortable.

Barry Conrad
Are you good at tying them though?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. Do you lose that skill? I haven't, I mean it probably because I had to do it every, when I was working at Ruth's Criss, I had to do it from every most days.

Barry Conrad
Can you send me a photo of you wearing a tie back in those days?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know if I have one. Actually, I probably do. I think I have a headshot, because I think for one of my headshots, it was like the server look. I'll find it and maybe send it to you.

Depends what it looks like. But OK, should we jump into some pasting things?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's jump into some fasting.

Melanie Avalon
So I have a study to start us off with. I'm actually very excited about this study. It is called Social Influences on Eating. And it was published a while ago, June 2016, in Current Opinion and Behavioral Sciences. The idea here is basically they were looking at how much we eat is very intensely affected by social norms. So basically who's around us, what are the cues, what other behaviors do we see people modeling? we tend to eat accordingly to how others are acting. So some of the findings from the study were that we do this unconsciously. We model the eating behavior of others. And it can happen. It happens for sure when people are around, but people don't even have to be around for it to happen. So they did a study, for example, and they found that if there were empty wrappers, like in the environment, people would eat more because they were assuming that other people had eaten it. And then if there are advertisements that suggest that other people have eaten it or like it, then you're more likely to eat it or like it. And then it happens with everybody. So it happens with friends. It happens with strangers. Children do it a lot and they do it when they're young and they do it for both their parents and their friends. So we know that this starts happening pretty early on. It doesn't matter if you're hungry. It doesn't matter if you're dieting. It doesn't matter how old you are. It's still a very powerful effect.

That said, if we identify more strongly with the group, so if it is like a friend circle or a fitness community, we're even more likely to mirror them. And they've done some really interesting studies on like people's characteristics and how it affects it. So for women, so women who were low in impulsivity actually tended to model other behaviors, other eating people's behaviors more. Whereas women high in impulsivity didn't, but they said that that might be because they were just less attentive or they weren't noticing. So it might be that if you're more impulsive, you're just really not noticing as much what other people are doing. Or you could be just like eating faster or something. So that could be why. Kind of contrary to that, which you would think people who, in a study, people who had lower self-control were more likely to copy their peers. And then, let's see. So it's also socially rewarding. So eating by eating in and of itself is rewarding. But when we conform to other people's patterns, it becomes even more rewarding. So it makes, it increases, it literally increases the pleasure of the food. And at the same time, just eating with others in general actually makes food more pleasurable. So A, eating with others, food becomes more pleasurable. And then B, if we eat like the people around us, it becomes even more pleasurable. And then, okay, and then it can even, this is so interesting, because what they talk about at the end is they talk about how this might relate to obesity, the obesity epidemic, because it seems that obesity can almost be contagious in a way because of how we model each other.

Melanie Avalon
So essentially, if you are, if you're around a group of people who are overweight, you're more likely to become overweight as well. And, or if you are in a, this was interesting, something really interesting that they said at the end, was because we're more likely to eat more in a social situation, because that's what it's more likely gonna be, is that you're in a social situation and people are eating more, because that's like the current norm. Then what can happen is you make new friends, you eat more to model them in the beginning. And it's something that should be temporary because it's like a, it should be like a temporary thing to boost connection and like bond with the social group, but then it just becomes the, like the pattern of the relationship, and then it becomes like ingrained, and now you're always eating more around these people. And so they were saying that might be a reason, a reason that we have an obesity epidemic and people gaining weight is that it could be this like social influence that's happening.

The only like things when it changes a little bit is so like gender differences. Okay, this was fascinating. Although I think people might have guessed this. So in mixed sex groups, so men and women, women tend to eat less. And that might be because they're just, they're wanting to look like they're dieting, they want to appear restrained. That's like the social norm. And we've kind of talked about this on, I think a prior episode. Men tend to eat more in the group, in groups of mixed company of men and women. And that's possibly to signal strength or confidence. And then let's see. So what they propose the, some of the takeaways and what they propose practically applying this is maybe not, maybe another way of helping make positive change for people's weight, like in the world. It's not just focusing on what you're eating, it's also making it, making people aware that these social norms happen because if you can realize, like awareness is the first step for so many things. And so if you can be in a social situation and become aware, oh, like I'm feeling this need to eat more than I want to. or eat less than I want to, and being aware that that might be just because of this psychological thing that we do being around other people, it gives you more power to have more control of your food choices and make the decision whether or not you actually want to keep engaging in whatever you're doing. And it takes away the guilt because it makes you realize like, oh, this isn't really like a willpower thing right now. This is like my sociological, psychological brain's response to being in a social setting. And it's a completely natural desire. And like I said, so being just being aware can remove that guilt, it can help you intentionally engineer your social environment to be, you know, to be around people who respect fasting or people where you feel accepted because like the community is so huge. So especially when it comes to things like intermittent fasting, being with a community of either fasters or people who appreciate fasting can really, really help. And then let's see if there is one more thing.

Melanie Avalon
And then fasting can also really help because it can make you even more aware of this social queue that's happening. And like I keep saying, awareness is really key.

So yeah, what are your... Oh wait, and one last thing is portion sizes. Although I feel like now, because this study is pretty old, I feel like at the time they were definitely increasing. And I feel like they have been increasing. Although I think relatively recently portion sizes are kind of getting smaller. Like we talked about like shrinkflation or whatever it's called. And I think with Ozimpic and the GLP ones, people have been eating less. So I think that the norms are actually changing. And actually that could be like a part two paper that they could write now, which is that, like I just said, with like the Ozimpic and GLP ones, I think there's a shift now towards people eating less and losing weight. So I think it actually could fuel momentum for people getting out of this overeating situation because of cultural norms shifting. So yeah, what are your thoughts on this?

Barry Conrad
I think it's, well, this is such a fascinating study. It's so interesting.

Just like what you're sharing how, not that it's not in our control, but social norms just so strongly shape what we eat, right? Like just something that seems like a given situation. Like, you know, it's actually, it really does. And what you said about food tasting better in the company of others. That is so, that made me think of that. I'd really agree with that. You know, and enjoying the food more in the company of others. If everyone's ordering a salad, you're more likely to choose something healthy. If everyone's grabbing fries, you're more likely to go, oh, what the heck? I'll just have that. I've definitely seen that happen. And I've definitely also been the subject of that. Like, yeah, I'll have that. You'll have it and I'll have the same.

Melanie Avalon
I would be curious if kind of like with the mixed sex study where, you know, men tended to eat more in the presence of women and women tended to eat less in the presence of men. I wonder if that also extends to the pleasure thing. Like I wonder if women get less pleasure eating with others. If they're the type that feels pressured to eat less, I'd be really curious about that.

Barry Conrad
How do you feel when you're in a mixed group with men and women? Do you feel any different?

Melanie Avalon
Well for me, it's like really Any people because well it depends so if it's like if it's and I and this really does relate to the I think the fasting And the judgment and all of that So like if I'm with like my family where I feel like they know what I've been doing. I feel comfortable.

I Do probably enjoy the food more with them, but I think if I am in a but honestly normally I just don't eat but if I were like in a social situation with like people I don't know I Think I would be much more self-aware Especially if I well if I wasn't eating I'd be much more self-aware if I was eating I think I'd be more self-aware and I think I would enjoy it less. Yeah, I would

Barry Conrad
That's so interesting. I also like used to joke a lot.

I had this one ex-girlfriend who just wouldn't, and I've told you this as well. A lot of girls have done this. They just won't eat in front of me. They'll cover their mouths. It's so crazy. It's actually not crazy, I shouldn't say that.

Melanie Avalon
I cover my mouth. We talked about this.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we talked about this, the study speaks to that perhaps then, like maybe they just feel unladyly.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean, like, literally, that's kind of what the study said, because especially if you're, if women are more likely to eat less in the presence of men, it makes sense that you would also do these adaptive behaviors like cover your mouth or not wanting them looking at you or yeah, it like, it fits so well.

Barry Conrad
It's so crazy to me and also like how, when did this even start? And I wonder if these cues or, or if these effects, well, obviously they're different in different periods in history as well.

Like I wonder how the, what the social, the gender differences in social eating behavior was like 50 years ago, a hundred years ago, you know.

Melanie Avalon
So I think it actually kind of talks about that because it talks about actually pulled out a quote that was about that because it talks about how We've always had this mirroring behavior, but the norms change around So it says well it talks about how it does say that there's an increase in average portion size which has created new consumption norms and then it was saying something earlier about how they there used to be a Like it used to be different where the the focus was on eating less

Barry Conrad
It's interesting what you said about men eating more, perhaps in front of women, which I mean, I don't feel like I eat so much anyway. I don't feel like I eat even more around people, but I guess I could see that.

Melanie Avalon
So you don't have like an awareness of wanting to eat more to show like your, your manly hood and your strength.

Barry Conrad
manliness

Melanie Avalon
Yes, they also said some of this is unconscious like people think they don't have these things but they do

Barry Conrad
You know what, like probably, you know, like, oh, let me show you how much I can eat. Like, oh, Barry can eat a lot.

Like I do eat a lot anyway, but maybe it's like, let me show you how much I can eat. You know, I'm a man, so much I can eat.

Melanie Avalon
You're going to have to notice now, if you feel like you're doing that, you know, I found the quote, it says, it says, maybe inhibit inhibitory eating norms, such as the norm of not eating more than others have been relaxed. So that will resulting in greater responsiveness to environmental cues that promote eating. So that suggests if they've been relaxed, that suggests that they used to be that there used to be norms of that were more inhibitory. So I think it's definitely changed, you know, throughout history.

And I do think it's going back now though, with I noticed, you know, I was thinking about this actually, because the Victoria's Secret fashion show, this is random, but they canceled it, you know, for a while. And I just got an email that it's back this year. And I was like, I think this is related to the changing norms of society and body weight. Say more. Like, I think before the GLP ones, obesity was, I mean, it's still the norm, I think, but there wasn't an answer unless you really dieted or did intermittent fasting. I mean, there was an answer, like people could do intermittent fasting and diet and things like that. But it was really, really hard. And so a lot of people felt really stuck in their weight situation, just couldn't lose weight. And so I think rather than, rather than like look for solutions and focus on that, we tried to change the norms of society for what we are. And so we tried to cancel things that put lower body weights in a, even normal body weights in a good light, because we wanted to normalize being overweight, because people felt stuck. So the solution was, we'll just normalize being overweight, and that's like the thing. So we're going to cancel the Victoria's Secret fashion show. But then when GLP once came in, now people are losing weight left and right. So now we can go back to it being okay to be a normal weight or even underweight. Not that any of this should be okay or not okay or anything like that. I just, I think it's a big, I think it's a big societal thing. And I think it's changing now. You can feel however you feel about it, like for better or for worse. But I do think just like objectively it's changing.

Barry Conrad
I do agree with that. And I've actually said to people as well, I feel like I'm back in the 90s in terms of just the societal norms around weight. Now, the more I look at even social media or any sort of headlines, people are thinner all of a sudden. And I wonder if it's, I mean, it's not a coincidence with the rise of Zimpik and whatnot. It's just, yeah, it's not a coincidence.

And I do think that you're exactly right that the expectation, even things like, you know, getting a BBL or getting, you know, the voluptuous look was like really desired. You know, the Kardashians had that look and now just the media is all changing and people ascribe to that. They aspire to it. You know, they want to, it's just so wild. I also knew this would happen. I knew it.

Melanie Avalon
You knew it before GLP1s or you knew it once GLP1s came into the picture.

Barry Conrad
I just kind of feel like history always repeats in some way. I didn't know how it was going to happen or who was going to lead the charge, but obviously GLP ones has led the charge, I think.

Melanie Avalon
that's so interesting. I didn't see it coming at all.

I thought we were, I thought we were going to, I didn't, cause I didn't, I was unaware of GLP one like as even a concept. So before they happened, I didn't know if there was a drug out there. Well, I guess, I guess if I had thought about it and if I was like, Oh, maybe they'll make a drug someday that does make people lose weight. And if that's the case, I do think norms are going to change, but I just never saw it coming. So I just thought we were going to just keep getting more and more overweight and just keep normalizing it and keep, keep like shaming you. If you, that's what I didn't like about it was it was like you were shamed if you wanted to lose, like in the past you were shamed away in a way, if you wanted to lose weight, because then you weren't accepting yourself. But now I feel like you can because people actually are losing weight. So now it's the thing to do.

Barry Conrad
I think it, I think it's not what it's why behind it. I think if people wanting to lose weight out of shame or wanting to lose weight out of pressure is different to people wanting to lose weight to feel like the best versions of themselves, I think it's a very different thing, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. I feel so strongly about this and and that's why I was really sad when the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show got canceled because I love that show and I like looking at those women.

I think they're stunning like literally it was one of my favorite shows of the year and I and it's just because I actually really appreciate like the female form and so I Liked watching it and I liked looking at Victoria's Secret models and they canceled it and I was like, huh? That's really sad to me, but now it's like it's okay again Because because as a society we're losing weight. So now we can have a Victoria's Secret fashion show again

Barry Conrad
I didn't even know it was canceled and it's so crazy and not crazy because you're real right. Now that there are more options for people who can't ship those pounds if they don't want to, if they haven't done fasting or anything like that, it's just like, let me just take this medication and now, oh, I feel good now.

And now the media following suit, you know, it's such a big, it is, it is such a touchy and important conversation and it is, it's happening.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's really touchy for people because people feel like it's so easy to ascribe blame somewhere and guilt and shame rather than just be objective about things.

Barry Conrad
I also don't, it's also not wrong to, it's not wrong to be thinner. It's also not wrong to be bigger. It's just like, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
and both can be unhealthy or healthy.

Barry Conrad
Absolutely. Both can differ, are and can be, and are healthy depending on what the situation is. And so I think it's, yeah, just think it's a complicated topic.

And also very interesting, like I love talking about this because it's like, what drives people to lose weight? What drives people to not want to lose the weight? Is it because of, I'm proud, like body positivity, whatever size I am, like all of those things, like, because that was the conversation for a long time as well. And I'm sure that's probably maybe why I'm guessing that's why they canceled the show, right? Like, because the new norm was more body pride and it doesn't matter what size you are. And I'm not too sure. I'm guessing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like health at every size. And it's like, if we're not, if you're having these, you know, thin models, then, you know, it's like anti the health at every size movement in a way.

But what's interesting is like, so if you think about the criteria for metabolic syndrome, which is a unhealthy problem, it's high fasting blood sugar, you know, blood pressure that's out of range, low HDL cholesterol, high triglycerides, and then waist circumference, which is like literally, you know, your, your size. And I find it really interesting that we, for the waist circumference piece, we like normalize that into that's healthy at any size. But we wouldn't do that for the other markers. Like we wouldn't be like triglycerides healthy at every size or blood pressure at healthy at every size, you know, it's just the one that presents physically to outward world that we tried to normalize as being, quote, healthy. It's a really fascinating topic.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I 100% could talk about this like all night. I also do think, yeah, I mean, gosh, there's so much I think about this.

Melanie Avalon
I know. So how do we get on this L because of the study?

Barry Conrad
I also do think, Mel, I'm of the thought if it triggers you or makes you feel bad, you don't have to watch the Victoria's Secret fashion show. You don't have to watch it.

Melanie Avalon
100 percent. It's kind of like I interviewed Dr. Abby Murano recently. She has quite a few books, but she's a behavioral scientist. And one of the studies she talks about looked at social media and the effect of looking at like fitness models on social media and whether or not it had a negative or a positive effect on the viewer. And it had to do with how you interpreted it. So if people were motivated by it and saw it as inspiration, then it actually had like a net positive psychological effect. But if people, some people like would get defensive and see it as, I don't know what the word she used, but like it basically would be demotivating and make people upset. And then that means it would have like a negative effect on somebody, which is something I've like, I really appreciated that study, because I feel like we're often told like, oh, social media and like, looking at fitness models and stuff is always gonna have like a negative social effect on you or negative psychological effect.

But I know for me, like I have found it in the past, like motivating. Yeah, I think it's really like individual, but neither is wrong. Like how you view all of this, what you feel, what works for you, what doesn't, what, you know, you have your own experience and what you want to engage the content you want to engage in. So engage in what makes you feel good.

Barry Conrad
It's so fascinating because it is really, everything really is, it reminds me of something that my friend said to me when he came and went to BC and he said, we don't see the world as it is we see it as we are. And it's just the same thing.

Like, you know, if we see the world, it's going to be different the way we interpret it. It's not actually the reality.

Melanie Avalon
so true. It is so true.

And we know that we know there's this thing called the reticular activating system, and it determines what we see. And we see what we want to see. And we see what we are that this also this literally was the other conversation I had last week, it was with Courtney McDermott. She has a book called give yourself permission. And it was a really it was a really epic conversation. But one of the one of the things she talks about was what we see, it really is only like what we are is what we see.

Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm. I really want to read I really want to read that that sounds amazing

Melanie Avalon
It was really good. And the conversation with her on the podcast was really good, too. So, listener, stay tuned. That episode is coming out, I think, in January, so.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, well this is a fascinating study, I'm still thinking about it, I probably will be thinking about it for a while.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yay. I'm so glad you like it.

Barry Conrad
Love it.

Melanie Avalon
Yay. Should we do a quick fasting question before? I know we said last week we were going to continue with Teresa's, but maybe we could do this week, Nydia and Maris. Actually, we could do one of them. One of them. Okay.

So question from Nydia. She said, I had a carne asade bowl and I meant to ask if creatine breaks a fast. I usually work out in the morning, so I need to know if it does.

Barry Conrad
Well, hi, Nadia. I hope you have an awesome day and thank you for this question. And it is actually something that a lot of people do wonder about. Like, does, you know, do you break the fast by having creatine? Is it safe to take before morning workout? The short answer is no.

Pure creatine on its own doesn't break a fast. And let me explain. So creatine, it's actually one of the most researched supplements out there, actually. And I only, I actually only just started taking it last year, and it's actually great for muscle building. And it's naturally found in your body. Your muscle, your muscles sort of store it and use it as a quick source of energy, especially for like strength training or high intensity. It's not, it's not like a caffeine. It's not like a stimulant, like just coffee. It's more like a topping up of the fuel tank kind of thing. Nadia, so from a fasting standpoint, what breaks a fast, as you may or might not know, is anything that triggers that digestion or spikes your insulin. So pure creatine, I have to specify. Not with additives or any sugars or anything like that. Monohydrate doesn't do that because it has no calories, no carbs. It's not going to measure the insulin levels at all or take you out of that fasting state. So that means if you're taking it with, say, plain water nitty or black coffee before your workout, you're totally fine. Only time you need to watch that is if you're using a flavored or premixed version, which I personally would not use because some of those blends sneak in the sugars or artificial sweeteners that technically is going to break your fast. So I stick to unflavored creatine, monohydrate, nothing fancy, just the real deal. And timing-wise creatine, it's, as I said, it's not like an electrolyte or caffeine. So you don't have to hit it at a precise time necessarily because it works by saturating your muscles over time. So it's more consistency. And I usually would take mine not right before my workout, but I would take it in the morning fasted, of course. And I like to train fasted always. And you mentioned when you said something about your mornings, you mentioned you work out in the mornings here. I'm the same. I love working out fasted in the morning and training fasted just gives me this clear, locked in feeling that's really hard to beat. And creatine is going to fit into that routine perfectly because it's going to help maintain your lean muscle in the air and your strength, especially when you're fasting long term, since you're not getting constant flow of protein through the day. So with the bowl, great choice, by the way, that's the kind of meal that supports your training. So it's packed with protein, minerals and sodium. And it's a nice balanced meal to have after maybe your fasted workout. So I reckon as long as you're using that pure creatine again, with no sweeteners or additives, it's not going to break your fast. You can safely take it before, after training, whatever fits your situation. It's one of the few supplements that genuinely does work and plays real nice with fasting. So keep doing what you're doing, Lydia. What do you reckon, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I love that. The only slight nuance I will add to it.

So it's interesting because when you hear creatine, it really, it sounds like an amino acid. So it sounds like leucine or methionine or glycine, like all these different amino acids, but it's actually not. It's just made from amino acids. So, and the reason that's important is amino acids are one of the most stimulating things of mTOR, which is our growth signaling pathway in our body. And it shuts off autophagy, which is something that people love doing fasting for. What's interesting is that the majority of the studies and the literature seems to indicate that creatine doesn't activate mTOR. That said, there have been, like I did find one study where it indicated that it might actually stimulate mTOR, which would make you think that maybe it breaks a fast, but then at the same time, there's literally studies showing the opposite that it might actually increase autophagy. My takeaway is that I think these are very unique states they're doing these studies in. It's probably not the same thing as like having some unflavored creatine in your normal life. Like they're looking at very specific mechanisms and they're probably doing dosing that is different than what you would be taking. And again, it's conflicting, like I found one saying that it stimulated mTOR and one saying that it stimulated autophagy. So I think from a practical standpoint, I think it's fine. Like I agree with everything Barry said. It's probably minimal or negligible. If you want to be like super, super sure of everything, then you could have pure unflavored creatine in your eating window. But if your focus is fasting, you're feeling good, it's working for you, I think it's fine to have it in your fasting window. How did you take it when you were taking it? When did you take it?

Barry Conrad
I would just mix it in water. I mean, it doesn't taste great.

Melanie Avalon
Or like when in your fast did you take it?

Barry Conrad
I would just take it first thing in the morning, like when I'd have my coffee, have my creatine, because I was experimenting with it and what I did find that I held into more water a little bit or I did feel bigger, but that's fine. It definitely helped me build muscle and it's also just a bit of a, I wouldn't call it a side effect, but yeah, I did hold into a bit more water.

I noticed that for sure. But I just take it first in the morning with or before my coffee, just mixed into some water or in my coffee. Didn't love it in the coffee though. So I had it in the water. I did try once like sprinkle it into some ground beef. It wasn't that great. That's not something that you have to like for flavor. You can't dress it up like a protein shake or something.

Melanie Avalon
So MD Logic, if you're looking for a creatine, they make a really great creatine. So you can check that out and you can get 10% off.

If you go to ifpodcast.com slash MD Logic, search for creatine and use the coupon code ifpodcast that will get you 10% off. They have a creatine powder that is completely pure. They have one with electrolytes, but let me look at the, so the creatine powder that they have no, you know, added ingredients. It's and it's the creatine monohydrate. Is that the form that you were saying Barry?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely, yes.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome!

Barry Conrad
Awesome. Thanks for your question, Lydia.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Thank you.

Next week I think we'll talk about carnitine. I used to get those so confused before I knew what they both were. Creatine and carnitine.

Yeah. So awesome. All right. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
I'm so ready for this proverbial breaking of the fast and I'm really excited about this restaurant, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon
okey-dokey. And friends, the purpose of this part of the show is because it's not just about the fasting, it's also the eating, which we talked a lot about eating on, I feel like this show was like the eating show. But yes, we just celebrate the eating window just as much as the fasting window.

So Barry, and each week we'd like to pick a restaurant to learn about it that we think is cool. And then we talk about what we would order if we were breaking our fast at that restaurant. So Barry, what did you pick this week?

Barry Conrad
I picked the Meat and Wine Co. in London, UK.

Melanie Avalon
The Meat and Wine Co.

Barry Conrad
Yep. Look, even just that title, I knew that you'd be excited about that.

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh, sign me up.

Barry Conrad
So listeners, originally this was actually founded in South Africa, which is where I'm from, it brings its premium steakhouse roots and warm African hospitality to London. They've also got one in Sydney, so I've tried the one in Sydney, it's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, there's a few different ones. So we're doing the London one

Barry Conrad
London one, and they offer an amazing ala carte menu of expertly aged steaks, seafood, share plates, like think indulgent, total comfort with refined execution. The wine less Melanie is heavy on the South African gems with classics.

Hopefully you can find something that you like in there that it's designed to compliment that flame grill flavor and the vibe, which if it's anything like the one I've been to, it's sleek, modern, dark woods with some moody lighting, touch of African art, really luxurious, but without feeling stuffy, you know. So let's check out this menu.

Melanie Avalon
I have a quick question about lighting. I don't know if we've talked about this before.

Do you, if you like go to a social gathering, speaking of social gatherings, like a social gathering, I think we've talked about this, like in a location where you can control the lighting, like do you take over the lighting if it's not good? I do. I did that yesterday when we were carving pumpkins. I like, yeah, I was like, I have to fix this.

Barry Conrad
How did you, did you, like what do you say? Like what's your icebreaker or what's your method to do it? Can I change the lighting?

Melanie Avalon
Well, when I'm with family, I'm just like, do you mind if I change the lighting around? And then I just start doing it. It's kind of like all happens at once. I like ask for permission while doing it type thing. But you got to have like the warm lighting, you know, I can't do like cold, intense lighting.

Barry Conrad
It's got to be warm lighting and also not overhead lighting. It's got to be, uh, lighting is so important.

Melanie Avalon
like lamps and stuff.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, just like really soft lighting. When people come into wherever I am, often they're like, are you like a vampire? Cause it's always lower light, it's never bright.

Melanie Avalon
I love low light.

And then also fun fact for friends, overhead lighting at night, it signals to our brain that it's earlier in the day, even if it's not that bright, but lighting from above, like the direction can mess up our melatonin production.

Barry Conrad
That's actually really interesting and it's good to know actually.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So, okay. So we're doing the, oh, there's a lot. There's Sydney, Melbourne. Are these in South Africa? Adelaide?

Barry Conrad
No, so AdLit is in Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Australia? What about Canberra?

Barry Conrad
Canberra, that's in Australia as well.

Melanie Avalon
What about purse?

Barry Conrad
Perth is in Australia, have a sent you the...

Melanie Avalon
and then London, okay.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there you go. And we should go to the, make your way over to the main menu. There is all this, this is actually these entrees as well. Let's start with the entrees.

This place is amazing. Melanie, I knew that you'd like it though. Meat and wine.

Melanie Avalon
I am excited. So do I go to, I see a lot of menus. What do I click on?

Barry Conrad
Go to Entrez and they will start there and they will work away. Entrez main.

Melanie Avalon
So I see like a la carte and then I see like aged lunch set menus, drink list, wine list. Am I at the wrong place?

Let's go to the a la carte menu. I just want to see what the aged menu is. Okay. So it's, oh, it's like their list of aged steaks that they have. So that's kind of like an add-on. If we want an age steak, do you have thoughts on the aged steaks?

Barry Conrad
You know what I don't particularly? Do you?

Melanie Avalon
I, it's interesting because aging the steaks can actually increase the histamine production. So even if it tastes better, I would err on the side of not doing aged, but I'm not going to turn down like an aged steak.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So, okay. Entrez, wait, wait, wait, wait. So, Entrez, is this like the appetizer?

Barry Conrad
Yes. So yes, it is. It's the starting situation. And there's several. There's so many things.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, we get to call it your terminology today because we have to honor the menu. This is why you picked this, so we could use the right.

Barry Conrad
Yes, the correct terminology.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so friends, we're looking at entrees, but actually it's appetizer.

Barry Conrad
It's, oh my gosh. Okay. There's so many emails. Anything or several things catching you away.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I think, well, I think I want Jack's Creek Wagyu Tartar, which comes with truffle, egg yolk cream, condiments, anchovy, aioli, parmesan, and crispy potato. I'll get all of that on the slide.

And then we still don't know if I like prawns, right? Because I haven't had them, but they're like shrimp. To me, they are.

Barry Conrad
I feel like I don't know what the difference is. I think it's just cold, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Or maybe I wonder if over there if it is the same thing it's different here, I think

Barry Conrad
Because in Australia we call prawns, we don't call shrimp prawns, it's just prawns, but it's the same.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so here, yeah, that's interesting that you call it all the same thing. So apparently prawns and shrimp are two different types of small crustaceans that look very similar. So shrimp is of the suborder Plaociamata, and prawns are of the suborder Dindrobanchiata. They have a slightly different gill structure and body shape. Flavor and texture, they practically taste the same. Most people can't tell them apart.

In the US, shrimp is used for almost everything. In the UK, you guys use prawns for everything. Oh, that's so funny. Okay, so we don't know what this is. I wonder if like, oh, so that's my question. We call it all shrimp, you call it all prawns. What are we actually eating?

Barry Conrad
I feel like, you know, I have, I have had shrimp and I have had prawns and they honestly taste the same to me. I think the difference is when I've had shrimp in America, it's just bigger.

Melanie Avalon
In the United States, shrimp is usually true shrimp. In the UK, prawns are usually, oh, usually cold water prawns, oh, which are biologically true shrimp, what? And then in Australia, oh, in Australia, it's one of the few places where prawn sometimes actually means a true prawn. So in Australia, you're probably getting prawns, in the UK, you're probably getting shrimp but you're probably calling it prawns, and in the US, you're probably getting shrimp and you're calling it shrimp, but anywhere, we might both call it shrimp or prawns.

That is fascinating. I just learned so much.

Barry Conrad
That is really fascinating.

Melanie Avalon
So on that note, I'll get some King Prawns plain with everything on the side with the butter and the African chili sauce and the coriander and the pata on the side. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go also the Jack's Creek Wagyu Tata, because it looks delicious. Got to do my chili biltong, which is traditional South African air dried beef.

It's Melanie. It's so good. Biltong. So good. You need to try it.

Melanie Avalon
It has chili built built into it though, right? Like it's like

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's chilly built. I mean, when you go to a biltong shop traditionally, there's plain, there's all sorts of flavors, but I've got to do the biltong.

I'm going to also get some King Prawns as well, actually. We're so similar. Yeah, we are. And then traditional budivore, so budivore will change your life.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, what is that?

Barry Conrad
It's like a sausage, but it's not. Sausage is too much of a plain word to call it buddha-vos, but it's basically like buddha-vos, like sausage. And it's so good. There's nothing better.

It's so good. So that freaking buddha-vos. So you have to try it because it's like a delicacy.

Melanie Avalon
You say it so like effortlessly. I would, I'm just like staring at the word. I'm like, I don't know how to bore war wars. Like, like it looks like bore or wars.

Barry Conrad
BUDDHAVOS

Melanie Avalon
Buddhivores? Yeah, that's pretty good. This is off to a good start.

And then we go to the main, which is this is the actual entree. I'm translating for the people. Okay, so there's mains, and then there's skewers. And then there's also that age. Oh, wait, there's also steak. So it's like multiple menus. Okay.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be a bit, one thing I know is if this were happening in reality, Mel, as always, we'll have a big table and the people would say, but it's just the two of you, I'm like, we know. We're going to order it for four or five people.

Melanie Avalon
and they're going to think that you're going to eat all of it, but I will be right there with you. And the trenches.

Okay, so what are you getting? I like that for the steak, they actually tell you if it's grain-fed or grass-fed.

Barry Conrad
That is really good. I do like that as well. There's a lot of options. I'm going to stay away from the age, but what are you going to, what are you going to get?

Melanie Avalon
Would you have anyways, or did I change your mind with a histamine?

Barry Conrad
You changed my mind with this, I mean.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man, oh man. I don't want to ruin your, you can, you know, I just don't like histamine. It doesn't do so well with me.

Okay. I'm going to go for, looks like they only have one grass-fed steak and it's not my favorite cut, which is ribeye. So I'm debating if I want to get the grass-fed ribeye or do I want to get like a grain-fed filet. I think I'm going to get, maybe I'll get the grass-fed ribeye and I'll just not, I don't like it to be too fatty. So I'll just eat like the low leaner part of it. So I think I'll get that and then, okay. So I see that they, no, I know what I'm doing. I'm just going to get that for now. You know what's sad? I see that they have, they have, oh wait, they have lamb skewers. I want to see if I can get lamb skewers. I need to figure out what it's marinated in, like what the situation is. Maybe if I can get it not marinated.

Barry Conrad
Mm, lamb, I love lamb so much.

Melanie Avalon
How about you? Have you had the skewers there? You said you've been right.

Barry Conrad
I've been, yeah, I have, it's actually really, really good. I can't remember if I've had lamb skews, but I've had the peri peri chicken and it's absolutely incredible.

And also a peri peri chicken is a very South African thing. So I'm going to get the peri peri chicken. Yeah, peri peri chicken skewers. It's good. That with also the grass fed ocean angus is born in the Rhubai and I'm going to have some, I'm going down to the sides here. I'm going to have some, ah, the truffle mac and cheese. Got to do that. And the roasted potato and it's a very hearty meal for me.

Melanie Avalon
So is roasted pumpkin a common side dish in South Africa?

Barry Conrad
I wouldn't say it's necessarily South African per se, but it's, yeah, you see a lot of pumpkin there, definitely.

Melanie Avalon
So not just seasonal. Here we pretty much just have it for Thanksgiving holidays. Right. Okay. But you guys have it more often.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we do actually. Yeah, we grew up with a lot of pumpkin.

Melanie Avalon
And chips are, those are fries, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's so weird how chips are like thick cut fries if you want to picture that.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, was it? It was last episode that we talked about Meatloaf, right? Wait, so have you found anything else that is like that you've learned? No pressure if you haven't.

Barry Conrad
Not yet, but I'll report back for sure. I'm sure that I will. I'm sure I definitely, well, Thanksgiving, we've already passed Thanksgiving once this is, but I'll be having all kinds of new things.

Melanie Avalon
You got to keep a list like every time you come across something where you're like, this is, you know, wild like that this is what this is like this word, let me know so we can talk about it.

Barry Conrad
It's actually really exciting, actually, because it's just new discoveries.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I actually have like an article save of another article about Australian dishes that I was going to run by you. Okay.

Barry Conrad
You want any size?

Melanie Avalon
No. And then dessert? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon
So let us have a look.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what's catching your eye?

Melanie Avalon
I know what I want. I'm going to ask if I can get some, because they have the salmon skewers, I want to see if they can give me some salmon for dessert. Like plain salmon, if they can like do that.

Barry Conrad
That sounds like a good situation to me. I am going to do, I don't think you're going to guess my choice this time.

Melanie Avalon
Really? Wait, let me try.

Barry Conrad
It's two, but it's not going to be what you think.

Melanie Avalon
You don't think I'm going to guess it? Is it? Well, they have a grand finale that has everything.

Barry Conrad
They do.

Melanie Avalon
but you're not gonna get that.

Barry Conrad
Yes, I have to get that.

Melanie Avalon
I win.

Barry Conrad
Cause what I was going to say was like if it was between the single ones, if I had to choose one, it would be

Melanie Avalon
Let me guess, let me guess, let me guess. You're gonna get the, okay, since you think I'm not gonna guess it, were you gonna get the pudding?

Barry Conrad
Because it's so that it's very stuff again.

Melanie Avalon
I was wondering. Okay. And then where are you going to get the fondant? The cheesecake. The cheesecake. Okay. I was between that. Okay. I was between those two.

Barry Conrad
But the Malva Pudding, it's very much like, yeah, it's just very nostalgic as well. It's pretty delicious. Really nice.

Melanie Avalon
What is Malva pudding? It says it comes with apricot, jam. Do you say apricot or apricot? I say apricot. I don't know why I just said apricot.

Barry Conrad
I was like, do you say apricot tomato tomato?

Melanie Avalon
I say apricot. Do you say pecan or pecan? Pecan. You say pecan?

Barry Conrad
We had this debate the other night at this grilled cheese, tomato soup, meatloaf night, and they were like, it's bakan, I'm like, what do you mean? It's pecan.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's pecan. That's why I say pecan. Wait, I have some more for you. Do you say scone or scone? Scone. You say scone?

Barry Conrad
Yes, but also this person was like an Australian who lived here for a few years and all of a sudden he's like, no, it's it's because I'm like, come on, bro, it's not because it's peak in.

Melanie Avalon
it's pecan pecan so it comes with apricot jam custard walnut tools i can't speak and then fior de latte gelato so what is what is malva pudding

Barry Conrad
So I need, it's hard, it's really hard to describe. I really would love for you to type it in, to look at a Google photo to see what I'm seeing. It's actually so good.

We had it during Destiny as well, because there was a South African, this business that were delivering food, it's actually so good. It looks simple, but it's really good.

Melanie Avalon
and has a cream sauce over it. I love cream sauces.

Barry Conrad
It's actually delicious, Melanie. It's so good.

Melanie Avalon
It looks like, I don't know what it looks like. It looks like something. It looks like bread pudding.

Barry Conrad
But it's so much better. Awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and then should we look at drinks? Let's look at drinks.

Barry Conrad
We have to.

Melanie Avalon
We should be doing the children's menu and picking like for like children so people can know what to get for their kids. Should we start doing that?

Barry Conrad
So, you know, I think it's going to be, I wonder if listeners let us know, do you, when, when you hear this part of the show, do you look up the menu and order with us or look at the menu with us? We'd love to know. That'd be fun.

Melanie Avalon
I'd be really curious. Like for the kids menu, they have a steak. I love that.

Barry Conrad
That's actually kind of funny. I don't know why I find that funny.

Melanie Avalon
like feeding the kid the steaks okay and then the drinks where where is that where is it oh they a lot of sauces too are you gonna get any of those

Barry Conrad
Peppercorn, peppercorn sauce in South Africa is all time.

Melanie Avalon
What's invisible sauce, is that a thing? I don't...

Barry Conrad
I've actually never tried that. I don't know what that is, but maybe it's just no sauce.

Melanie Avalon
for three dollars. We charge you. Where's the wine menu? Let's see.

Barry Conrad
So if you go to the tab on the side there, and you got a minute, one last.

Melanie Avalon
They got rosés. Barry is becoming a rosé lover.

Barry Conrad
I actually am becoming a brosé. It's really, it's really a...

Melanie Avalon
You're becoming, oh, did you come up with that word?

Barry Conrad
Prose.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Brose. Did you say brose?

Barry Conrad
I said bros there, yeah, like for bros.

Melanie Avalon
We should, we should like, oh my God, wait, Barry, we should like, is that a thing? Is that a thing we should, don't tell anybody, we should like, we should do something with this, like social media. We should like make some content. Nothing's coming up when I Google it. We should think about this.

You could have a Rosé line and you could call it Rosé. And you could like completely remark it. Like Rosé has a branding problem for applying to men. You could like change that.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. Because you know what? I've actually been saying it to people, I'm going to get some brosé.

Melanie Avalon
You've been saying brosé?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and get some brosé.

Melanie Avalon
I'm like in total entrepreneur mode right now. I'm like, what can we do with this?

Barry Conrad
Okay. No, totally. No, because I have literally been thinking about that one, because I've just been saying it in jest. I'm going to get some brosé.

Melanie Avalon
It's brilliant. It's what it is

Barry Conrad
Well, I'm bookmarking this right now.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So, and they have a, oh, look at this. Remember I was telling you about Coravin and you were not familiar. They have a red under Coravin. So they have like a list of wines that they provide via Coravin. Oh, wow.

It's probably like nicer wines that normally, normally they could not do by the glass, but they can because they use the Coravin. So I probably would get, do you see something you would get one of the bros at one of the bros days?

Barry Conrad
It's such a catchy word. Yes, I would get the I get a bottle of the Rock Angel Chateau Iqaland Rock Angel the Rock Angel. Yeah, if you go all the way down past sparkling

Melanie Avalon
Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, by the bottle. Oh, sorry. Okay. Got it.

Bottle list. Okay. Got to do the bottle. I like, I don't know. It's funny. So I like, I don't know if we've talked about this. Like, do you prefer, so if you're at a restaurant, do you gravitate towards by the glass or by the bottle?

Barry Conrad
It depends. I usually start with a cocktail or two and then might as well just get a bottle because I'm going to get more than one glass of wine. I'm not going to change up when I'm going to drink wine.

Why not? I'll just get a bottle because between two people it's going to go.

Melanie Avalon
But what if you don't like it as much? That's the problem. And you can't taste it before. So that's another thing you have to know about me. I always taste the whites.

Barry Conrad
No, but don't they always come up to you and they'll give you a little bit to taste first before you can't do that?

Melanie Avalon
for the bottle? Well, oh, well, yeah, I mean, yes, but it's kind of like when you open the bottle, you know, if you order a bottle and they open and then you taste and you don't like it, then you're sending back, then they have to, it's like awkward.

Barry Conrad
I guess if you know what you like, I guess, you know, like, if you know I really want this, like, you know that you like a pinaiguzzi, you know you like a rosé, a brosé.

Melanie Avalon
I could probably, so if it's a situation where I'm getting by the bottle, if I have the wine list and I can research, I can probably, and I've done this before, I can pretty confidently order a wine. If it's a very large wine list, I can find a wine that I know I'm going to like by the bottle. But I have to be like very confident.

And it requires a very large wine list, but it can happen. But normally if it, normally I just go by the glass.

Barry Conrad
Or maybe I get like a glass and then if I like it then I'll get a bottle.

Melanie Avalon
works. I think I would get the just looking at it like very briefly and I would do some more some more research.

I know I should get a South African wine because because you know where we are I would have to look all look up all the South African wines because they tend to be heavier and higher alcohol so I'd have to research them but just looking like really briefly I like the looks of the Chateau, Courouin, Bordeaux, Cap Sav, Merlot, Cap Franc, Blint from France. But if I was going I would look up all of the South African wines and probably get one of those if I could find one.

Barry Conrad
This place just, it's very UNI coded, just meat and wine, lots of meat, lots of wine. Yeah, can't go wrong.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Do you ever get dessert wines?

Barry Conrad
You know what I actually do? Like I love, I do like a good limoncello.

Melanie Avalon
Usually, like. Wait, limoncello's not wine, is it? That's a spirit.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm full that I like to drink though, but it's just a wine, let me chill out.

Melanie Avalon
Limoncello is a, um, like an inside joke of my family. So yeah, apparently there was a night, I wasn't there, but apparently there was a night where people had a lot of limoncello and we don't talk about limoncello anymore.

Barry Conrad
I know, but I do actually buy a Riesling, like I do like a good Riesling even without dessert just I'll have it in the fridge Riesling is really nice.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. The thing about Riesling is I feel like it's out of, if you had to pick one varietal that can vary like to an insanely vastly different amount for the amount of sweetness, it's Riesling. Like Riesling can be super sweet or can be bone dry. You never know what you're going to get.

Barry Conrad
Are you gonna... any of the dessert wines catching your eye or not really?

Melanie Avalon
No, because they're always so sweet. I feel like on my birthday, I always end up drinking dessert wines because it's like, it's your birthday, you have to have something. And so there's like, somehow a dessert wine ends up in front of me. I feel like this has happened for the past like three years.

I'm not about it, but I do it anyways. At that point, it's like whatever.

Barry Conrad
Let's have it.

Melanie Avalon
yeah so oh they have a oh wait let me wait sorry i have to look up this wine i might get this one by the bottle hold on let me just see one thing let me see if it's organic okay i might get yeah they have a chateau moulon avent gamay bougille from france that's really speaking to me i might get that by the bottle maybe

Barry Conrad
I'd like to try some of that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's one of my go-to's. Well, good find. Have you been multiple times to this?

Barry Conrad
I have been multiple times, not to the UK one, but I have been in Sydney, absolutely.

Melanie Avalon
They should open one here.

Barry Conrad
They really, I'm surprised there's not one here.

Melanie Avalon
I'm surprised too. We don't really have a, like, there's a lot of steak house, you know, nice steak house.

I don't want to cause like a chain, but like steak houses with multiple locations situations, but there's not one with this flare with South African vibes to it that I'm aware of.

Barry Conrad
I'm really surprised by that actually.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, closest we have, it's not South African, it's Australia, but we have Outback Steakhouse. Which, did they have that in Australia? Oh my goodness, that's so funny. Awesome, awesome. Well, good find, listeners.

We hope you enjoyed your time with us. I keep getting distracted because I keep seeing more wines. They have a sparkling Moet Echandon Grand Vintage Rose.

Barry Conrad
Oh, that looks really good. That sounds really good.

Melanie Avalon
We might have to start with the...

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds delicious.

Melanie Avalon
now I'm back. Listeners, if you enjoyed today's show, feel free to submit your own questions to questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. You can also submit restaurant ideas. We have featured before restaurants that got submitted by listeners, so feel free to do that as well.

For these show notes for today's show, you can go to ifpodcast.com slash episode 453. That will have links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. You can get all of these stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. You can follow us on Instagram. We are ifpodcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. I think that's all the things. Anything from you before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much once again for tuning in everyone, have an amazing week and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
See you next week, bye!

Melanie Avalon
Bye! Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes.

We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Welcome to Episode 452 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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 ⁠Effect of intermittent fasting on diabetic patients-A narrative review⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 452 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 452 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Melanie I'm doing sensational I feel so good I feel I'm having one of those weeks I think multiple weeks of just feeling grateful like gratitude has been the banner over my last few weeks last few days and I just feel really good I feel like I'm in my purpose I feel invigorated I feel inspired I feel excited I feel driven I feel stretched all those things so that's that's a good place to be for me

Melanie Avalon
That is so amazing. I love that.

How are you feeling? I'm feeling good too. And gratitude is such gratitude and laughter can help so many situations. Like if you're already feeling good, it just makes it way even more, you know, high vibration.

But if you're like not in, you know, not in a happy emotion or tension and then you have gratitude or laugh, just helps so much.

Barry Conrad
It really does. It really really does. And also, guess what? I bought my first pumpkin. Halloween pumpkin.

Melanie Avalon
And this is airing, by the way, in December just for listeners.

Barry Conrad
So sorry, listeners, you're already over Halloween, but this is airing, but this is a big deal to me. I've never done the whole Halloween thing properly.

I've got a pumpkin and I didn't carve it out yet, but I did draw on like a scary face. So like a post had to do, but it's, yeah, it's pretty funny.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I'm so glad you're saying this because I wanted to talk about pumpkins today, but I was like, this is like a December 15th episode. I don't know if, but maybe we just can and people can be nostalgic.

Did you see my Instagram posts about the pumpkin I carved?

Barry Conrad
No, but I'm about to look at it right now. Should I pull it up right now?

Melanie Avalon
Wait, look, because there's three pumpkins, guess which one is mine.

Barry Conrad
Okay, here we go. Is it on? I'm looking at

Melanie Avalon
page right now I just posted it on my um it's all my stories but it's also my my post my profile whoa whoa what which one is mine

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow, this is okay.

Melanie Avalon
of one of them yours? One of them is, yes. I carved with my sister-in-law and her friend, who is now my friend.

Barry Conrad
Yours is the one on the right, the two with the dresses.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Do you see what that is? Do you see what it's supposed to be?

Barry Conrad
Is it wicked?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Do you see it? Can you see it? Like, can you see the wicked vibe?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's it's it's clinden alphaba see I score points for me. I actually guessed that that means it's a good carving. It means it's good.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you.

It did not turn out the way I have done better work in the past, but I kept telling everybody, I was like, this is my worst pumpkin I've ever done.

But that's okay.

Because like a key, this is something you'll learn.

Are you, you're going to carve yours?

I'm going to give you some tips.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I bought the pumpkin, like, how do you how do people do this? Like, how do you what do you use? You just use a knife because it's pretty intricate what you've done here.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh, so you know nothing.

Barry Conrad
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'll give you a quick, quick lesson. So you get your pumpkin, you decide your what you want to do, which you can either buy like a book with stencils in it, or you can just Google like whatever you want. Google, like I googled wicked silhouette, and then silhouettes will give you something that will work. Because you need it to be where you can like cut it out, you know, and it shines through. So then you get your stencil. And then you so I did it, in my opinion, the correct way, you tape it. Okay, actually, before that, cut out the top so that it's like a like a hat. And then you like pop up the top like pop. And then you scrape out everything inside. And you get it really good and scraped out and clean. And then you take your stencil and you tape it to the front. And then you can get like a pumpkin carving kit on Amazon. And you use the pointy piece that's kind of like a toothpick. And you go and you poke the outline of the like through the paper into the pumpkin, the entire outline of everything, then you remove the paper, and then you get the carving utensils and you carve out the pieces. But you need to make sure this is what my mind got messed up because there's like a key piece missing that fell off, like fell off that would have made their silhouettes more like they were they're supposed to be holding hands, but that piece fell out. So you have to be very careful.

Barry Conrad
It looks very impressive. I'm not going to like that.

Like even the bottom of the coat or the dress that dresses they're wearing, it's very like fine. Like how do you do that without it all kind of getting messed up?

Melanie Avalon
You gotta have the pumpkin carving kit that has a fine-toothed knife thing, and you gotta do the poking the holes around the outline.

Barry Conrad
I didn't know this was a thing, like a pumpkin carving kit. What? I thought people just kind of went to town and just did it, like, and just kind of... That's...

Melanie Avalon
That's what some people do, but ... Did you see mine last year?

Barry Conrad
No, now I want to see what did you do last year. I probably did, but can you say that to me?

Melanie Avalon
Let me send it to you hold on last year. I'm like really proud of it

Barry Conrad
I need to write this down. So, you know, when you, when you take everything out of the pumpkin, do you have to wash it because how does it stay?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's the other thing.

So and I was talking with my friends about this, and I'm sending you right now the one from last year.

It's a video but you'll see like you'll see right away mine.

So in my childhood, we would like carve these and they would just like last all season.

But they don't last long.

Mine's like dead already and I did it last night.

Well, it just gets old.

Barry Conrad
Mank, like what happens to it?

Melanie Avalon
It like shrivels up and maybe, you know, it's probably more a problem when you do intricate details like mine. Apparently you can do like a whole thing where you, it'll make it last longer where you like soak it in water and like put some bleach. I don't know. I, I realized this too late. So next year I'm going to try that.

Barry Conrad
Melanie I'm looking at this video and how did you do the Taylor's how did you do the writing the Taylor Swift signature yeah

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's so thin. How did you do it? Well, the kit that has the precision saws.

Barry Conrad
Oh, now I see the Stenzel. Now you held up the Lana Del Rey one.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, because Danielle, Danielle, for that one. So last year, Danielle wanted to do Lana Del Rey and she didn't think it through. She didn't think through that, like, the stencil, what she was cutting out had nothing connecting it to the outer rim. So when she did it, there was nothing. It was just a circle because everything fell out.

Uh-oh. Yeah. You have to, if you're doing your own, like, silhouette stencils, you got to think through, like, is there something? Is there architecture supporting the image?

Barry Conrad
Oh, I just got my pumpkin 101 just then.

Melanie Avalon
I know, that's why I'm here. It's funny because I thought like, I thought I was like, do they do this in Australia? I don't know.

Barry Conrad
I was going to say as well because I went to a like a gathering with some friends the other night and had meatloaf for the first time as well.

Melanie Avalon
Meatloaf. Okay, I am so excited to hear because I don't know what I don't know. So I don't know what we have here that you don't know. So you have to every time you have to tell me I expect every week a new American finding from you.

So we got two this week. We got pumpkins and meatloaf. Okay, so meatloaf. How was it?

Barry Conrad
It was amazing and it sounds like a basic thing like you know but it's so it tasted so good and it was spicy the way this person made it like with extra spices was incredible and then also you you probably have soup with grilled cheese is that a thing that you guys do.

Melanie Avalon
Like tomato soup and grilled cheese? Yeah, yes. That's what we had. Yeah, wow. All-American meal.

Barry Conrad
Yes, we started with that and then had the meatloaf for like the, I guess, the main situation. But yeah, I've never had that combination in my entire life, ever.

Melanie Avalon
So do you know the thing about meatloaf here, though? No. OK, so it's funny because growing up, meatloaf is like a joke. What I mean is parents feed it to their kids and people have it for dinner, but you're always like meatloaf. It's like nobody likes meatloaf, which makes no sense because it's actually really good.

And then you become an adult and you're like, wait, meatloaf is good. But it's a thing. You could ask any kid, like walk up to a kid and be like, what do you think about meatloaf? And they'll be like, yeah, meatloaf.

Barry Conrad
But that's why I wasn't I wasn't kind of excited to try it. I mean, because I keep seeing that on movies like me love again, but it was actually really good.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you do know, you do know.

Barry Conrad
I know about that, but it's actually really good. I'm like, what are people complaining about? It's so tasty.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's kind of a lie, kind of like brussel sprouts. We've talked about this, like brussel sprouts are those, that's like the other food that when you're a kid, you're like thinking it's disgusting, but then you have it and you're like, this is so good.

They are so sweet. I don't know why kids don't like it.

Barry Conrad
Cause like with butter and like, oh, it's just so good. Yum.

And also you guys really get into Halloween here in general. It's really not as it's not like really an Australian thing. You really go all out. I love it so much.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, it makes sense because you got to have the cold season for it, you know, you got to be like I don't know Halloween when it's hot would be strange. Are you gonna dress up?

Barry Conrad
I have to. I have to commemorate this first one. I don't know what I'm going to wear yet. Do you have any ideas of a costume that comes to mind?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. And again, listeners, I'm so sorry. It's December and you're hearing about, wait, wait. Well, first of all, can I tell you my, my Halloween costume epiphany that I had?

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
So, wait, so how much do they do, do they do trick-or-treating and stuff in Australia and like costumes and

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, like they do do it, but it's more like it's like an adopted thing from here. It's not It doesn't feel festive.

It doesn't feel like real real Halloween people do do parties and stuff like that But it's not not as much of a thing like the streets and stuff are all done up with Halloween Decorations years and that's not a thing in Australia

Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. Yeah, we, we go all out. We're all about it.

So here's what I had the realization about. So when you're little, and you're dressing up for Halloween, you want to, you want to be like exactly like the character, like you want the costume that like is the character. Then, when you hit late high school college, I probably shouldn't use this word, you want, you want to be the scandalous version of the character, like the sexy version of the character.

Barry Conrad
I get what you're saying.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like, so it's basically like take the costume and then like remove half of it. And that's what you are. And then you get out of that phase and you get back to like where like where I am now and you want to be the real character again. It's like you come full circle.

That's the thing. I think it's the thing. Yeah, I promise you, this is like this is the trajectory that everybody in the US goes through. And if you like are if you like stay in phase two, you might want to think about your choices.

Barry Conrad
I feel like some people, you know, like phase two, they're like, they want to be, you know.

Melanie Avalon
No, no judgment. You can stay in phase two. I just get really excited because I love trying to, like, I love trying to create the actual outfit completely. So it's fine.

Phase two-ers, we can still be friends.

Barry Conrad
Can I guess yours for this year? Yes, please do. Is it, Glinda?

Melanie Avalon
Did you see mine last year?

Barry Conrad
I feel like I saw you, but I always see you wearing amazing dresses and stuff, so I...

Melanie Avalon
Did you see my Glenda costume last year?

Barry Conrad
I feel like I have seen it, now I feel silly.

Melanie Avalon
I wore it recently, so let me, for the whiz, let me send it to you on Instagram again because this relates to the answer that you said in a way. You'll see. Slide on this, I think to the last slide.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow, okay, I have seen this dress and you look amazing. Or not the last, the second to last. Yeah, you look great, I have seen this.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you. So this I worked so hard to find to make like the perfect Glinda from Wicked part one. So Barry, you are correct, sort of. Can you complete your answer?

Barry Conrad
I get what you're gonna say. You're gonna say you worked so hard to recreate Glinda's attire from part one of the Wicked series, but now you're gonna work so hard to create her look from the second movie that's coming out soon.

Melanie Avalon
Yes.

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and I've been so here's the thing though. I've been working on this for a while.

I couldn't find I couldn't find so like the good thing about the part one was I found like a legit epic dress like stunning. I couldn't find that for part two like that that dress is not out there. So I actually had to buy the costume. So I bought like the actual costume like the Disney license costume, but I'm not hasn't arrived yet. I'm not feeling very confident about what it's going to look like. So I think I'm gonna have to like, do some editing of it, like bedazzle it some more, maybe get it altered, like I'm gonna have to pimp it up.

Barry Conrad
Okay, what's like the three main differences between the first dress and this dress? Like, why is it different? Or how is it different?

Melanie Avalon
Well, have you seen the posters? The first dress is like the stereotypical Glenda from Wizard of Oz, what you think of, but like the movie version.

And the four good one, it's just a different dress. It's like a little bit blue, a little bit purple. It's got these funky shoulder things. It's got sheer sleeves.

Barry Conrad
I see it now. I'm looking at it right now. I can see the post.

Melanie Avalon
So stay tuned because like I said, I'm not feeling confident about what I ordered. But I feel confident that I can fix it up.

Barry Conrad
I feel confident about that too. I actually can't wait to see the big reveal. Do you think you'll post it before Halloween, actual Halloween, or just on the day itself?

Melanie Avalon
actual Halloween. Well, when I go out for Halloween. I can't wait to see it.

Which I Oh, it's too late. Well, I can still promote it in retrospect. I'm going to the sips under the sea at the aquarium. If any friends live in Atlanta, I highly recommend sips under the sea events at the Georgia Aquarium. It is so fun. Everybody go. And there's a lot of events. It's not just Halloween. They do it for like a lot of holidays.

Barry Conrad
Awesome. So sipping wine, I guess sipping any beverages under the sea.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, your tickets include drinks and then you get to see the aquarium without children everywhere and there's like a dance party.

Barry Conrad
A dance party in the aquarium!

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh and they decorate the whole aquarium and it looks like Epic i'll send you after this a video a reel and some reels It's so cool and everybody's dressed up and then you're with the fishes drinking with the fishes.

They're drinking the Because they're in the water. Everybody's got liquid

Barry Conrad
Everyone's drinking and sliding, I'm sure, after drinking too.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, do fish drink? Oh, wait, wait, whoa, they don't. Do they?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but their mouths are open. Hold on. They have to be.

Melanie Avalon
I have never thought about this in my entire life. Wait, oh my gosh, hold on. Let me look this up. I'm looking it up. Why didn't they teach us this in school?

Barry Conrad
Do fish drink? I mean, I always kind of thought, man, they must be really full because they mouse open the whole time.

Melanie Avalon
I bet they do. Saltwater fish constantly lose water from their bodies to stay hydrated. They drink seawater through their mouth and expel the excess salt through cells in their gills and urine.

And then freshwater fish have the opposite problem. The water around them is less salty, so water keeps rushing into them. They don't need to drink. Oh, they urinate a lot to get rid of the excess water. Whoa. So they, whoa. So water gets absorbed into their body and they like flush it out. They urinate it out.

Barry Conrad
Oh, okay. Well, I didn't. Yeah. I mean, I never thought about this before. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. But saltwater fish do drink. Whoa. My mind is so blown. Should we get into fasting stuff?

Barry Conrad
I think we should let's jump into some fasting stuff and have a drink of some fasting.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm making a note though about this fish fact, because that's for my mind blown podcast. That's mind blowing. I never knew that.

Happy December, friends. Berry. Happy almost Christmas. Do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study, and this week's study that I brought is called The Effect of Intaminifasting on Diabetic Patients, and it was carried out at AIMS in Telangana, India. It was just published actually last month.

Well, actually, this is in the future, so in September 2025 in the Journal of Family Medicine and Primary Care, which is a respected peer-reviewed journal run by Walter Kluwer. This is actually a narrative review. So, the authors went through dozens of clinical studies, both randomized trials, controlled trials and meta-analysis to piece together what we actually know about fasting and diabetes across both type 1 and type 2. So it's not just one experiment, it's more of a bigger picture to look at all the signs so far. So, the main question that they wanted to answer was pretty simple. How does IF, intermittent fasting, affect people with diabetes? Specifically, their blood sugar, their weight, their insulin sensitivity. So what are the real-world risks? What are the benefits? So, across a lot of the studies that they reviewed, intermittent fasting clearly helped with type 2 diabetes. The people with that lose weight and improve blood sugar and control. One clinical trial showed that after six months, people with obesity and type 2 diabetes lost about 3.6% of their body weight with IF, which is crazy. While those on standard calorie restriction didn't lose much at all. So both groups improved blood sugar levels, but the fasting group found their plan much easier to stick with, which honestly, I think is half the battle as well, rather than trying to stick to a diet. Another randomized trial compared to fasting schedules, so 16.8 and 14.10, actually, against a normal diet in a 99 diabetic adult. And the results that they found was the 16.8 group lost about 4% of their body weight, and they saw better HPA1c scores and even improved cholesterol levels compared to the control group, which is pretty powerful from simply changing when you eat, not what you eat. They also included a massive 405-person study from China comparing a 5.2 fasting meal replacement plan with diabetes medications like Metformin and Empelophosin. After 16 weeks, the fasting group dropped nearly 10 kgs, which is more than either medication achieved and lowered their A1c by about 1.9%, a clinically meaningful improvement. So overall, when they looked across these trials, the fasting consistently reduced fasting glucose, insulin resistance, waist size, even improved lipid levels, things like triglycerides and total cholesterol. Basically, it wasn't just helping with blood sugar, it was tackling the whole metabolic picture. But of course, there's always cautions as well. The authors made it very clear that fasting for people with type 1 diabetes or anyone using insulin or certain blood sugar lowering medications, they should really seek doctor's advice because it could be risky.

Barry Conrad
Hypoglycemia, low blood sugar, is a big concern, so along with dehydration of dizziness if fasting isn't managed carefully, that could be really bad.

So for people with type 2 diabetes, though, when it's done under medical supervision, the benefits generally outweigh the risks.

So what's the take-away?

Basically, it's basically saying that intermittent fasting is one of the most promising low-cost lifestyle-based tools that we have for managing type 2 diabetes and it improves our insulin sensitivity, trums our body fat, helps stabilize our blood sugar, but again, it's not one size fits all.

So for anyone with diabetes out there who's thinking about trying it, the message is pretty clear.

Do it with guidance.

But when it's done safely, the science is saying time and time again, fasting can help your body work with insulin instead of constantly fighting against it.

And I think that's a pretty empowering message for listeners living with diabetes now.

It's a lifestyle shift that's not just a diet of the month.

Do you have any thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. I love this so much. Quick question. So the one they were talking about where they looked at 16.8 and then you said 14.10, did they only find benefits for 16.8 but not 14.10, do you know?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so they mentioned just the results that the 16A group lost around 4% of their body weight and saw the better HPA1Cs, but they didn't actually mention here anything about the 1410 per se.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if that means they only found benefits with the slightly longer fast, you know, compared to the... Yeah. I was thinking the same. That's really interesting. Either way, like what I love about this is, you know, a lot of people turn to intermittent fasting to deal with blood sugar control and type 2 diabetes, but then there's all these other benefits that you get. It's kind of like whatever benefit you come to intermittent fasting for, it's just so awesome that you get all these other ones, you know, looped in with it, which is amazing.

And I also think people... I just feel like it's so common that people... I mean, it is common. It's very common that people get diagnosed with, you know, pre-diabetes and then eventually type 2 diabetes, which is really sad. And that can... I think really feels like a death sentence for a lot of people, like it's like, oh, once you hit type 2 diabetes, now you're type 2 diabetic for the vibe is that you're that for the rest of your life. Like that's the sentence, now you are a type 2 diabetic. And if you reduce your blood sugar levels, it just means that you're, you know, mitigating your type 2 diabetes. When reframe, you know, it's quite possible that with dietary changes and intermittent fasting that you could lower your blood sugars, lower your HBA1C, no longer be in the type 2 diabetes range and, you know, like be in remission, like actually not be type 2 diabetic. So there's just so much power that comes with this.

Barry Conrad
I love it. I totally agree.

There's so much more going on inside our bodies that people don't realize if they don't know much about intermittent fasting. It's not just to lose weight. That's one part of the whole picture. There's so much, so many benefits. It's amazing, actually.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love it. So great find. And I'm glad that they're doing more reviews like this, where they're looking at all this data and pulling out the common findings.

And actually reminds me of something I actually wanted to talk about because I got my results. I know you recently got back to the US. Did you send off your blood test for superpower?

Barry Conrad
I didn't, no, I did not yet. No, I need, I haven't, no.

Melanie Avalon
So I did and I got back my results and this just reminded me of it because like lab work and stuff. I am so impressed with all of the data that it covers. It gives you so many, well it gives you so many things that you should be testing but then on top of that it gives you all of these calculated ratios that help you interpret the data. It's really, I'm like very, very happy with it and impressed.

So just a quick shout out to Superpower. If listeners are looking for a good resource to get really comprehensive blood work at an affordable price with a lot of results and then interpretations and you can actually like talk with them to understand things more, I highly recommend it.

Barry Conrad
I really want to check the I'll check my deliveries and because I surely would have gotten up and I really want to do it now.

Melanie Avalon
It's an email code that I emailed you. So you just scheduled, I think it's like super easy.

You just schedule, you like sign up on the platform and then you schedule out a quest location and quest locations are like everywhere. And then you just go in for your blood draw and then you see Breezy.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to hear what you like, what yours was and what you found and what was surprising. What wasn't surprising.

Melanie Avalon
So to get their special price, which it's $1.99 and you get this, which is just so good for all of this blood work.

To get their special price, which is $1.99, which is amazing, just go to superpower.com. Oh, and it also gives you your biological age. And I know we've talked about this a lot and that there's a lot of different formulas and ways that people calculate it. But I felt pretty good about mine.

I'll tell you what mine was.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait. I can't wait to this.

Actually talking about the biological age is fascinating to me because there are probably a lot of differing results out there with different companies. So I'm really I can't wait to try this one and to find out what mine is.

Melanie Avalon
I know I'm, I'm really, really excited to see what yours is. And one second, I'm just logging in.

Barry Conrad
Were you nervous to find out yours or were you like feeling anticipation or did you guess what it would be or?

Melanie Avalon
So honestly, yes and no, there's just so many, like I said, so many different ones out there that I don't know how much, I don't know how much weight I actually put in it just because there are so many different ones out there. So basically, it works my favor where it's like, oh, if I get a low one, I'll feel good about that. But if I don't, maybe this is just me like wanting to feel better about myself. But like my, the scores I got so much, you get like a superpower score, which is like how healthy you are out of 100. So I got an 88, which was you're very healthy, keep going. So that's good.

And the biological age, it said I was 7.8 years younger. That was fun. That's crazy. Oh, it also shows your your pace of aging, which is cool. And just so many, especially like people are interested in cholesterol, you get so many markers, you get total cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglycerides, APO-B, LDL-HDL ratio, non HDL cholesterol, TYG index, cholesterol HDL ratio, and then like a million other ratios calculated like neutrophil to HDL, uric acid to HDL. There's literally dozens more LDL to total, LDL-C to APO-B. Like these are things like non HDL total cholesterol ratio. There's literally like a dozen more triglyceride HDL molar ratio. And what I really like about it too is when you click on anything because it's this can sound really overwhelming. It gives you a very easy to understand explanation of what it is. Yeah, it's really, really cool. So highly recommend.

Barry Conrad
I'll get onto it, I'll get onto it.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, please do, because I really want to know. All right, shall we jump into some listener questions for today?

Barry Conrad
I think we should. Let's do it.

Anna on Facebook says, talk about ADF, please. The up days, how to best support the down days. When is best to work out? In brackets, cardio, strength, if modified fast, 500 calories. When within the fast is it best? What foods? What if you have a special occasion on a down day? How do you catch up? Melanie, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome.

Okay.

Anna, such great questions.

Okay.

So ADF, it's alternate day fasting.

And there are different ways that people do this, but it's basically where some days per week you eat normally.

And then some days you either do a complete like zero calorie fast, or you can do a modified fast where you have around 500 calories, which is kind of what she's referring to when she talks about, yeah, she talks about the modified fast.

And the thing about ADF is there is a lot of research on it.

It's one, it was probably one of the most studied forms of fasting, especially because it was something that was studied for quite a while before the more, I feel like it was like one of the first like studied protocols, because it's something that they can, it's very easy to do like a protocol to be studied.

The thing is, there's a, like I said, a lot of different ways you can do it.

So you really have to find what works for you.

So like, for me, if I were to do it, because there aren't hard, hard rules about everything.

So like the modified fast day, the 500 calories, there's no rules around that.

Like you could eat that slowly throughout the day, you could have it all at once, like a one meal a day.

Like for me, if I were to do an ADF type situation, I would want to on the fat on the modified fasting day, if I were to do that, I would want to have all my 500 calories at once, probably have just like pure protein, because then I could still eat like a, you know, I would probably be full, like I could still have my one meal a day and eat like a lot of chicken, and at least not be completely, you know, starving.

On the other hand, you might want to hack it to get a low protein day because we do know there are some benefits to having very low protein days, which would happen if you did a complete fast that day, or you might with that 500 calories want to actually do like no protein, which will kind of be similar to what you eat on a fasting mimicking diet.

And that would be it just depends on like, what are your goals?

What is sustainable for you?

Like for me, a complete fast, I just can't sleep well.

So I know that doesn't work for me.

But if that works for you, I mean, more power for more power to you go for it, as far as how to work out strength or cardio.

So I have different recommendations here.

So I think low intensity cardio is great for the fasting days, because that's going to, you're going to be in a fat burning mode anyway with the fasting and low intensity cardio.

So we're talking about like going on walks and things like that.

That's going to help you burn more fat, it's going to help mitigate hunger.

It's not going to create a need for, you know, a stimulus for muscle building, you're not you're not you're not doing that.

So you don't want it, you don't have to worry about, you know, getting a lot of protein to replenish that.

But then again, like I was saying, if you did like a modified fast, you could definitely get enough protein and 500 calories worth too, if you were to do some sort of strength training, but I probably wouldn't like I probably would do the the lower intensity exercise on the fasting days.

Melanie Avalon
And then on your normal days, that's when you could do more strength training, high intensity cardio, things like that. And then if you she's talking about you know what to do if you she said if you have a special occasion on a down day, how do you catch up? So like on a fasting day, what are you going to do if you have a special occasion? If it's okay.

So this is me being being real, like how many? Like, what do you mean by special occasion? So if you're talking about things like your birthday, or Thanksgiving, or Christmas, don't do a down day on those days, like modify, like change around your, your ADF schedule so that you're just not having a down day that day. But I don't know what you mean by special occasion, you might be considering just going out to dinner being a special occasion, and maybe you're doing that weekly. And so now it's more a thing where you actually need to adjust for something that's more consistent. If that's the case, I would look at your overall approach to ADF like are you doing it where you're doing the exact same days, every week? And if so, maybe just switch around the days that you're, that you're doing it for. If it's already like up in the air anyways, then that works even better because you could just, you know, make it match your social schedule. Or you could just not have as many down days that week. Like that's totally fine too. It's more about the consistency over time rather than just one day off plan. And if anything, you know, mixing things up here and there can, I think really help the body keep it guessing and things like that. You could also make another day that like normally would have been a complete up day where you're eating normally, make it maybe like a half, a half day, like a half fast day. So maybe like that day you do a one meal a day type fasting schedule, but you don't restrict your calories. So then it's kind of like you're throwing in like an extra fasting day without taking away from your, how do I say this? So if you cancel out the down day, add in your special occasion, and then turn an up day into like a modified fast, but still eat as much as you want in your eating window. It's kind of like mitigating it a little bit by adding some extra benefits in other days. I don't know if I'm making sense. The point is I think you can be flexible and do what works for you. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't overstress about the occasional one off situation where things get, you know, go a little bit differently. So what are your thoughts, Barry?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, that was so comprehensive and you covered so much there and so many of the things that I was thinking as well. And first of all, thank you for the question. And I love that you brought it up because someone actually asked me this week about ADF. And so this is really timely. I don't personally do ADF, but I have tried it before just to see what all the fuss was about, if I'd like it, if I'd find it easy or hard. I did the modified fast, that modified down there. So I did, I didn't stick to 500 completely. I did more 650, but same, same. I do think the first thing that jumped out to me when you said special occasion was exactly what you said, Mel. Is it a birthday? Is it a wedding? Is it a Christmas? Because if that's the case, the beauty of fasting is you can just work it around your life. So I wouldn't stress. Just, well, I wouldn't stress about that at all.

But I don't, we don't know what you mean by that. So we'd love to know a bit more. For me, I'd say for workouts, I'd follow the same principle. Like, you know, train when you've got energy. I personally train fasted. I love the focus and lightness it gives, but I'd keep lighter on the low calorie days. So exactly what Mel was saying, like walking or stretching or mobility work, and then go heavier on the up days, you know, when you're, when you've got a bit more to burn.

For the special occasions, again, like I'm all about flexibility. If life throws you a dinner on a celebratory moment, I like what you said, Mel, about making it even like a modified update as well, because that way you can still get a good fast in there and not stress too much about what you're eating. I think that's a really great idea. And a lot of the time when I talk to people who do do ADF, is that the updates are actually really where the magic does happen. So if you're fueling your body properly there, Anna, good protein, healthy fats, real food, it does make the down days easier. I really do believe that.

And even when you've, even when I'm fasting 20 hours a day, it's the same thing when I'm fueled probably. So your body doesn't feel deprived in those down days, it's going to feel more supported. So making sure you're replenishing your fuels with good nutrition is really important. So you can set the stage for the next fasting day.

Melanie Avalon
When you did your, when you experimented with it and you said you had like 600 calories or so, did you do it like I was saying, like a lot of protein in a one meal a day situation or did you have it throughout the day?

Barry Conrad
There's no way I definitely didn't do it throughout the day because I kind of thought as well my understanding of it because you're right there aren't that many parameters around like when you can do it like you can eat all day I just didn't want to go so I just had like one meal a day vibes.

Melanie Avalon
which you can you can eat like a lot of meat for, you know, like 600 calories. Awesome.

Barry Conrad
So just like chicken and chicken and beef and I felt pretty satiated.

Melanie Avalon
But then again, it's like, I'm actually, I'm really curious. It's like, if I were to do it, I almost might want to do the low protein thing just for that, like that protein fasting concept, but I'm on the fence.

I don't think I'll ever actually do it practically because I need my big meal every night. I just, life's too short for me.

Barry Conrad
It's too short. It's even, it's sort of like, even like the P protein modified spare sparing diet kind of situation as well. That's sort of like someone to that then.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like a protein sparing modified vest. Yeah, pretty much. Okie dokie.

Barry Conrad
Thanks for your question Anna.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, thank you, Anna. Shall we go on to our next question?

Let's do it. Okay, so these questions are from Teresa and she says, okay, so my favorite parts of the episodes are the beginning and end. Yay. I love hearing the two of you catch up on each other's lives and have random conversations and also enjoy hearing your take on different restaurants when you break your fast. So these questions aren't really fasting or scientific, they're more AMA. Number one, with both of you having acting experiences, which movie or TV show would you love to star in and which role would you play? Perhaps it might be fun if Mel chooses Barry's and vice versa. Example, Mel plays Serena from Gossip Girl. I've never seen the show, just an example. Yeah, so should we pick for the other person or pick for ourselves first?

Barry Conrad
Let's pick for the other person first, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Okay. Well, so I'm going to cheat because I want us to both be in the same shell.

Barry Conrad
That's a good call. Yes.

Melanie Avalon
I win, and the show I'm picking is Star Trek, Strange New Worlds. I want to be in a Star Trek, or does it have to be that show? I want to be in a Star Trek series.

Barry Conrad
I don't think you've ever told me this before, this is new information.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? Yeah, I would love to be in a Star Trek series so bad. That would be everything to me. I'm obsessed with Star Trek.

Barry Conrad
Would you have like a character like a type of look or character that you'd like within the Star Trek?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would want to be, well, Nurse Chapel is already taken. I would have wanted to be Nurse Chapel in Strange New World.

I would like to be if they have Yeoman Rand, if they make her character bigger and integrate. She's like really the only like blonde from the original series that was young, that was kind of reoccurring. She was only in, I don't know, she's probably only in like five episodes, but they could turn her into a bigger character. Or it could be like a completely new Star Trek series where it's not original characters. And then I'll just be, you know, I don't know what I'll be, but I'll be somebody new.

Barry Conrad
Can you tell me the name of that nurse again?

Melanie Avalon
Yeoman Rand, it's like Yeoman, like the type of Sarge, like what she is, and then Rand is her last name. Because

Barry Conrad
You know Nurse Chapel in Stranger New Worlds, she, her name is Jess and she's, we're like the same agent. She's like Aussie. She's an Aussie.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, she is?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, I didn't know that, she's killing it.

Barry Conrad
I could see you doing a role like that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and then you can be whatever you want to be.

Barry Conrad
I don't know. I don't know enough Star Trek lore to have a fully informed opinion. Who do you think I'd play on Star Trek?

Melanie Avalon
We might have to take one of the original series episodes and do a spin off.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. We'll like write a whole new, you will do a spinoff of our own one. We can lead the charge.

Melanie Avalon
I know what we could do. There's this episode called Who Mourns for Adonis, and the theory or the plot is that they go on this planet where it's like all the ancient Greek gods, because they find out the ancient Greek gods actually were like aliens who visited Earth. But then they actually thought they were gods because of how they were treated on Earth and such. So you could be one of the gods.

We could be on that planet. We could be the gods on that planet, and we could interact with the Star Trek people.

Barry Conrad
I'd be all for that. And then we could have like, you know.

Melanie Avalon
You could be Adonis.

Barry Conrad
I could be a donut, that sounds a feeling. And then we can like eat in space. We can drink in space, the whole thing. That's a big part of it.

So how about you? What's your, I also thought for you, Mel, like an Emily in Paris type five, I could totally see you doing that. I could totally see you doing that kind of character.

Melanie Avalon
We've talked about this before. We could have done that show.

Barry Conrad
We could have done that show. We can do that show.

I see you. I think, listeners, I actually told, well, Teresa, actually, I should say, when I first watched it on Netflix, I told Melanie on one of our calls that she reminded me of Melanie. Do people say that to you?

Melanie Avalon
Nobody's ever really said that to me, but I remember when he said that. I think it's her personality. I agree.

Like when I watched it, I'm like, yeah, that's how I would act pretty much. Yeah, that tracks.

Barry Conrad
So, I can see you doing something, or even like the marvellous Mrs. Maisel, have you seen that? She's got that quick fire delivery, like blend of brain, and yeah, she's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
I think my sister was like really liked that show. Yeah. What would you want to be if you could pick?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I love, like, have you seen that show Paradise?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, this was movie too. I'm throwing Lord of the Rings in there.

Barry Conrad
a movie as well. Oh, if it's a movie, X-Men, let's do it. Marvel. I'd be Marvel here.

Melanie Avalon
And I have to re-answer, because Barry needs to be a superhero in something. Like, he just has to. You have to.

Barry Conrad
I really would love, like, that's like a dream. I would love it to be in a superhero movie, like especially a Marvel superhero movie.

Melanie Avalon
You have to, this has to happen.

Barry Conrad
It has to happen, we're putting in the universe.

Melanie Avalon
Are you listening? Yeah. And what's paradise?

Barry Conrad
Paradise is such a good, it's like a really like good dramatic show. We're still in Cape Brown and basically the American and a lot of the world gets blown up and there's this like world that's built underneath the earth.

It's like a whole like, it's like a simulation. Like it's almost like, is it like post-apocalyptic stuff? Yeah, post-apocalyptic, but like the world that they build is like so serene and placid and like beautiful and, but it's all like not real, but people, yeah, it's actually like, I think you'd actually like it because it's very much like simulation vibes.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. I can see you there. You'd be there.

Barry Conrad
Cause it's also like he's like a, you know, he's like a, you know, he's physical. He's like, goes after the bad guys. It's awesome. It's fun. Good dramatic character.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, I'm excited. I can't wait to see your next thing, whatever it is that you're gonna be in.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and I can't wait to see us both on Star Trek.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. We could save Teresa's next two questions for next week. Should we do that? Especially because I think the first one, the next one does involve...

Barry Conrad
Yes. So Teresa, stay tuned for part two.

Melanie Avalon
All right. And speaking of, so she was mentioning that she likes when we do our proverbial breaking of the fast restaurant exploration. So shall we do that now?

Barry Conrad
Let's do that. And you know what, Mel, I have to actually say that I love getting that feedback that people, just different parts of the show that people enjoy.

Like it's so, it means a lot to us. So thanks for, thanks for listening, everyone.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I got I got really excited because we got this one and then I got an email that I sent you that was yesterday. And then I also saw a similar comment, I think, in the Facebook group about people liking like the restaurant stuff and the banter and such. So, yay, let us know what you guys like, what you would like more of. We are happy to try to make everybody happy, which is not possible, but we try.

OK, so this I'm continuing like I was on my haunted restaurant streak. So let me get the one I'm going to do because last time I did my hundred hundred restaurant, I said I had four. We did one. And then I said the next one I was going to do that they had kind of like an interesting set up.

Barry Conrad
You did say that, so I'm in suspense now. So I'm like, what is it?

Melanie Avalon
So let me tell you about it. Okay, this is called the Grill House, and it was built in 1836, and it kind of looks like a barn house, and it's in Michigan. So it has like an old-fashioned country aesthetic, and it has its unique concept, which I'm going to tell you, but the legend about it is that a local lumberjack died in a knife fight on the property and was buried in an unmarked grave somewhere in the yard. Witnesses claim to have seen the lumberjack spirit around the property, but the good news is he is a friendly presence, and it's considered one of the most haunted restaurants in the country.

So, Phantom Lumberjacks looks like a barn, but the setup is it has this massive grill, and you diners, you grill the meat yourself. So let me like, let me, let me, I need the link.

Barry Conrad
I need to see this situation. This sounds very interesting for sure, the setup.

Melanie Avalon
So here it is.

Barry Conrad
He's a friendly, he's a friendly ghost.

Melanie Avalon
He's a friendly lumberjack phantom. We love that.

Barry Conrad
Okay, it's good. Looking at it now, here we go. Where you become the grill master. That's like the...

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have a holiday wine tasting Friday, November 7th, we should go.

Barry Conrad
Also, the food looks pretty good so far.

Melanie Avalon
So it's not really my vibe and that it's a casual dining experience and I love, you know Fancy schmancy, but I really like this grill master experience So do you see that did you just go down and see the big grill that's in the center? So there's a they have a large 30 person grill 30 person grill and you go up with your group So it starts you hand select your favorite steak.

Then you go to the grill And you grill it and then you eat it

Barry Conrad
I'm picturing you doing it and you just throw it in for like one second because you like yours blue.

Melanie Avalon
I'm done. I wonder if they like monitor, it says they have grill masters that assist you with cooking times.

Can you imagine me getting kicked out? Like I just like put it on for like a second. They're like, ma'am, ma'am, you have to, nope.

Barry Conrad
It's our safety rules you have to, you can't do it for like a second, you have to.

Melanie Avalon
Sorry, sorry. And so the way the entrees come, so all entrees include a bottomless bowl of family-style house salad with balsamic vinaigrette dressing. Would you eat any of that? Yeah, yeah.

That sounds good. How about the sides? Unlimited sides are baked potato with butter, sour cream, green onion, cheese, and then baked beans, caramelized onions, and Texas toast. What would you eat from the sides?

Barry Conrad
Oh, I would do the big potato. I'm not really a beans kind of guy. Are you a beans person? No. No, no, no. You told me this actually or not. I prefer a big potato all day.

Melanie Avalon
Especially baked beans. Have you had baked beans? They're so sweet. They're like sugar.

Barry Conrad
You know, in Australia, it's like beans on toast, baked beans on toast is a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Oh really? Kind of like our grilled cheese tomato soup situation?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but yours, that's way tastier than just baked beans and toast.

Melanie Avalon
Is it and it's the baked beans like they're like sweet right aren't baked beans really sweet

Barry Conrad
Yeah, they're looking like a tomato sauce kind of thing and you just take it out of a can and slap it on the bread and eat it.

Melanie Avalon
Am I thinking of something different? I'm thinking of the beans that are really, really sweet. Yeah. We probably make them sweeter here, though, in the US.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that tracks.

Melanie Avalon
So, okay, so would you eat any of the Texas toast? I might taste the caramelized onions, maybe.

Barry Conrad
You know what, I think I'd taste the onions over the beans. So yeah, I'd have some of the onions. That sounds good.

Melanie Avalon
and then you pick what you're actually grilling. So what would you get? There's so many things.

Barry Conrad
So grill room menu. So I would... Man, there's actually so many options for sure. I'm going to take several things. I'm definitely going to do shrimp dinner.

I know it's not meat first. I'm going to do the shrimp dinner. I'm going to do... Oh, wow. The American wagyu steak with rich buttery texture. That looks good too. Probably those two, that one and the shrimp. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
I think I would get a bacon wrapped filet mignon, also the shrimp dinner, also I think I want to throw in some chicken breasts.

Barry Conrad
I was looking at that as well. I'll do that too.

Melanie Avalon
We could just have a meat fest.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be a protein fest, yeah. I love that idea. Even if you're pretty much going to walk up to the grill mill and just turn around again, except with the chicken, you have to cook that.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I would probably, yeah, oh my goodness. We could also get like a strip just to like, you know, I don't know, I just want more meat.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's so more-ish, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
And then we can look for the ghost.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, find the friendly lumberjack and see if he's around.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I want to see if they do if they do they talk about the ghost on their website.

Barry Conrad
Surely there's like a bit of a, what if there's like a presentation or if someone says, hey, everyone, welcome, and tells us any stories about them, you know?

Melanie Avalon
It looks like, and they have three different, okay. So there's the grill, okay. So the grill room is like its own room. So I guess you go in there and then there's the rock, which is their inside casual rustic. They would, the original rock walls, oh my goodness. Okay, I love, I have like a thing for original rock walls.

There's this. Really? Yeah, I think it's so cool. When it's like the original walls, it's like, whoa. Cause there's this, there's this restaurant here called Devan, Devan, Devan. I don't even know how you say it. It's right by the symphony. And so we always go, we get drinks before the symphony, or if I'm seeing something at the theater by there, and it's like in this, they call it a castle, but I mean, but it's like the original walls. I just, yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? I love these.

Barry Conrad
I do know what you're talking about.

Melanie Avalon
Do they have this on Australia? Do they build rock structures in Australia? I can't really see that happening.

Barry Conrad
I do like they do have like cobblestone but like they do have old institutions that like, you know, OG like from, you know, way back in the day and I do like it because you feel the history just feels good, like it feels good to be in those places.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And it's like, it's like this rock was here then and it's still here. It's kind of like, have you been to Rome?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I love Rome so much for that reason. You feel, you literally feel the history in the air, right?

Melanie Avalon
It's wild like what's wild about Rome is that there's just like ruins everywhere like it's like a city But then there's like oh, this is from The roman empire and it's just like chilling in the street. Yeah

Barry Conrad
you feel like how many people, how many battles, how many things, how many people walk these same streets I'm walking right now, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And then the Coliseum is just like.

Barry Conrad
Ah, the Coliseum is next level. Overwhelming. It is.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so that's how we feel about history.

Barry Conrad
We love it. Well, maybe we should try to find something at the Colosseum at some point. I've never actually... I didn't eat there. I don't think there's a... I don't remember there being.

Melanie Avalon
I just remember kind of being like a football stadium, but not.

Barry Conrad
but definitely not.

Melanie Avalon
a drink menu.

Barry Conrad
Beverage and dessert menu, is that the one?

Melanie Avalon
Let's see, this might be a sneak in my wine situation. We'll find out. Let me see, yes, this for me is a sneak in my wine situation.

Barry Conrad
Oh, that's funny. Well, there's non-alcoholic beer with the specialty cocktails. There's white wines, red wines. There's a few things there, no?

Melanie Avalon
uh-huh

Barry Conrad
Not impressed, I'm not convinced.

Melanie Avalon
No? Is there something you see that you like? You could get a cider ready to drink cocktails.

Barry Conrad
I think in a place like this, I kind of almost feel like getting a cider, you know, because it's just, you know, the stone walls and it feels just so like, medieval, you know, that's not a word, guys, but you know, it just feels like old.

Melanie Avalon
Are those spiked ciders? Probably not. No.

Barry Conrad
No, I actually don't like that. No, those, I don't like those.

Melanie Avalon
You could add vodka to the cider or like bourbon. You can make your own drink.

Barry Conrad
Specialty let's see what the specialty co maybe they have a lumberjack cocktail. Let's see do they

Melanie Avalon
I'm sure they do, hopefully, maybe not.

Barry Conrad
Oh, they don't have a friendly lumberjack.

Melanie Avalon
Where is this lumberjack that people speak of?

Barry Conrad
I wonder if there's a photo of what he used to look like or apparently used to look like, surely. Oh, actually, hold on.

There's a grill house, Breeze Martini. You know, I like to try the drink of the place.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Or yeah. Mm hmm.

Barry Conrad
So I reckon I'll give that a go. Awesome. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
I'm sneaking in my wine, so we're good there. And can I guess what you want for dessert?

Barry Conrad
You can do this two things and I feel like it's these two things. I think pretty, I'm pretty sure was like two shows ago, the same choices.

Melanie Avalon
You're getting whoa, they have something really fun though. Well, if it's the same as last time then you're getting the cheesecake and the chocolate tort

Barry Conrad
You get, yep, so predictable.

Melanie Avalon
You're not gonna get the peanut butter pie.

Barry Conrad
I also want that because that sounds, that's not like something you see. We don't see that on

Melanie Avalon
on a lot of menus. That sounds very like American too.

Barry Conrad
It actually really does. Can I guess what you'd have?

Melanie Avalon
That's what I would want the most, actually. Oh, I just told you, Ophel. Did you hear me, what I said?

Barry Conrad
You'd want that the most.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Mian, would you have guessed that?

Barry Conrad
Well, I was just going to say, I'll just have what I like most from the main.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, right, what I actually would get. Oh, right, right, right. Okay, I thought you were thinking like dream, like, oh yeah, what I actually get, you're right. Yeah, I would just get a repeat of what I'm craving more of, what might be like another filet, maybe some more shrimp.

It'll probably be, I find that once I start eating the meat, I really want more, so probably be some sort of steak. Maybe I'll get the wagyu for dessert.

Barry Conrad
What if they're like, ma'am, you've already grilled, but didn't even really grill you meat and now we're closing it down, you have to have something else. What would you do if you couldn't re-grill?

Melanie Avalon
That's fine. The grill's still hot enough. Like, I can go fast. Like, it's still hot enough, I promise. It's fine. It's gonna be even better, actually.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. You'll be starting with your tongs like, no, just let me grill it. I know.

Melanie Avalon
I like run. Can you picture this scenario? I can, yes, actually.

Barry Conrad
And the peanut butter pie one day, we will attempt to convince you to have one of these delicious desserts from the dessert menu.

Melanie Avalon
I have no fear. I think it's funny because you're so convinced you're gonna convince me, but nope. You have not met my, I am a wall. I am a rock wall like that they built this out of.

Barry Conrad
But if Funfetti came along...

Melanie Avalon
Even less likely to tempt me because I know how much I like it.

Barry Conrad
I totally forgot, I'm really annoyed because I saw something with Final Fantasy recently and I meant to make a note of it and tell you, but I forgot now.

Melanie Avalon
Was it the sourdough that they released? Yeah, Pillsbury's releasing a sourdough funfetti mix. That's intense. I know. I read a review about it.

Barry Conrad
Of course you did.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, this was so, so fun. Listeners, we hope you enjoyed your time with us. If you have your own questions for the show, please send them to us. We would absolutely love to hear them.

You can directly email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifodcast.com slash stuff we like. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. Oh, there's one thing I wanted to say before we go. I meant to say it in the beginning with the Halloween pumpkin carving, but speaking of like drinks and festivities, you might not want to start drinking until you're like almost done with the pumpkin because I found this out last night. What happened? Well, just normally I don't drink at all during it, but then I start, we were all drinking wine and stuff and I was like, Oh, I'm getting a little bit like my skills or I was kind of getting over it more. Like, and I was just like, I'll just cut this here and cut this here. And like, so yeah, I might want to keep that in mind, but no taking.

All right. Well, this was so fun. Anything from you before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much, listeners, for tuning in once again. We appreciate you so much and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome talk to you next week

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week. Bye.

Melanie Avalon
Bye! Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week!

Barry Conrad
you

Welcome to Special Guest Episode 451 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

Sarah Morgan is currently the CEO and co-founder of InstaMed Pharmaceuticals focused on innovative delivery technologies for peptides, hormones and functional pharma actives. She is a seasoned innovator, founder, author, inventor, and thought leader in the health & wellness field, known for her patented technologies in dietary supplements, medical foods, and functional pharmaceuticals such as peptides and bioidentical hormones. Sarah earned her Bachelor’s degree in Biology and Chemistry from the University of Wisconsin – Eau Claire, and holds a Master of Science in Clinical Nutrition from the University of Bridgeport. Committed to lifelong learning, she avidly delves into the latest scientific discoveries.

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Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 451 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine. If it's that time, then get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi friends, we have a very special episode today for you guys on the intermittent fasting podcast. This is a guest episode with the incredible Sarah Morgan. She is the founder of InstaMed and you are going to learn everything you could want to know about peptides and specifically oral peptide strips. Yes, that is an easy way to get the incredible benefits of peptides in a strip that you put into your mouth. I love it so much. I'm currently using the Thymacin Alpha 1 and the GHK-CU. And then once I finish these, I'm going to do the BPC157. I also plan to use the PT141 Plus on nights before I go out, if you know what I mean. If you want to get these strips for yourself, I cannot recommend it enough. You can get 15% off site-wide with the code Melanie15 at getinstamed.com. That's 15% off site-wide with the code Melanie15 at getinstamed.com. We talk about so many things in today's episode, including what peptides actually are and what they can do for your body, how you can take them in the form of oral peptide strips, specifically the benefits of BPC157, GHK-CU, CJC1295, PT141 Plus and Thymacin Alpha 1. I think you guys are going to be blown away and how these peptides can support sleep, weight loss, muscle, skin, libido, and so much more. We talk about how to use them, how to dose them, if you can stack them, whether or not to take them fasting and all of the details that you need to know. We also talk about the difference in general between drugs versus supplements and the future of GLP ones. All right, I think that's all the things. As a brief reminder, you can get 15% off site-wide with the code Melanie15 at getinstamed.com. And now enjoy this fabulous conversation with Sarah Morgan. Hi friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation I am about to have. This is a conversation that I know in particular, you guys are really excited for me to have because I have been talking quite a bit about peptides recently. I just recently really honestly started getting into the world of them, which I'm a little bit embarrassed to admit because in the biohacking sphere, I feel like people have been doing peptides for quite a while.

Melanie Avalon
But I just recently started going into the science of it. I had Jay Campbell on both this show, as well as the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. And that was a really great comprehensive overview on peptides. And then through Jay, he was so kind. When I first met him, he immediately wanted to introduce me to this incredible woman, Sarah Morgan, which Sarah, by the way, like literally the praises he sung of you were just absolutely beautiful. Talking to you on the phone afterwards, I can totally completely see why with everything that you're doing.

But for listeners, so Sarah is currently the CEO and co-founder of InstaMed Pharmaceuticals. And they make an innovative delivery technology for a lot of different things, hormones, functional pharma actives, and in particular for this conversation, peptides. And I know this is really exciting for people because I think one of the biggest barriers to people using peptides has been a few different things. It's been the gray market area nature of a lot of the sources of it. Do you know if you're actually getting safe products? Do you know if it's effective? Do you even know what you're getting? And then on top of that, the way of typically taking peptides, there are some oral supplements, but there's debates about how well that is even absorbed. So typically you're injecting yourself and people, that is a barrier for a lot of people. So the idea of having peptides in the form of a sublingual oral strip I know is overwhelmingly exciting. And currently right now we'll talk about this, but InstaMed makes five different, I have them all in front of me right now, peptide strips that we'll talk about. Yeah, and I know you guys have a lot of questions because when I asked you for questions specifically, not just about peptides, but about peptide strips, I got inundated with questions. So Sarah, I've been looking forward to this for so, so long. Thank you so much for everything that you're doing and thank you for being here.

Sarah Morgan
Oh, thanks for having me and huge shout out to Jay Campbell for connecting us. He is an incredible human.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, he really is. It's funny. I don't know if we talked about this, but they say that your first impression of people is not usually wrong. Like normally when we have a first impression of somebody, it's very rare that we actually change our opinions.

I did change my opinion with Jay because when I first saw him, like his platforms, I was like, Oh, he looks like a Jim bro. Like he looks a little, I don't know, but he's so nice and kind and intelligent and it's just funny because it was not, he was not who I thought he was just from like brief glimpses of social media. Yeah. Thank you.

Sarah Morgan
It's very sophisticated, so is Hunter, a very sophisticated gentleman.

Melanie Avalon
So shout out to him and very very grateful. Okay, but for you So first of all before we get into all of the peptide stuff When we talked on the phone before you just have a really really impressive background You're doing incredible work with the technology that you're working on Especially with peptides because I know there's been a lot of debate like can you even take peptides in an oral?

Sublingual form and clearly you guys are cracking the code on that. So just your personal story Like what you're doing right now. Is this something that you saw yourself doing growing up? Where did this come from?

Sarah Morgan
you personally? Great question. I come from a family of cardiologists. I watched triple bypass surgeries in high school. I was planning on going to medical school. And I actually worked on a neuropeds and trauma floor in a hospital system associated with a Mayo Clinic. And I was like, oh, I don't think I want to do this. And I saw some of the brokenness of the healthcare system. It really made me kind of reevaluate my goals and really the type of education that I wanted to get. So I actually pivoted away from medical school, which at the time was really scary because there wasn't a lot of established alternative paths.

I got a master's degree in clinical nutrition through a program that taught amazing biochemistry because I'm totally a geek at heart. And I've worked in clinical practice for a while. And then I realized, gosh, I love innovation. I love solving problems. So I've started supplement companies, medical food companies, and what I like to call functional pharma. I think it's an interesting thing that we're really seeing a convergence of nutrition, nutraceutical supplements with pharma in a really beautiful way. And peptides are actually the category leading the charge. So I got introduced to peptides probably about a decade ago. For the US, that was pretty progressive if you're over in Europe. Not so progressive because they've been using them for almost 50 years in humans. But I fell in love, Melanie. And I think that's the first thing if people are listening to this podcast, you've never interacted with peptides, get your own personal story because they're just phenomenal. And from there, I really realized, gosh, these are so cool. But as you pointed out so eloquently, people don't like to do injections. They're scary. We kind of get this a little bit of an empathetic viewpoint into what it's like to be a type one diabetic and what they have to do on a daily basis. And a lot of people get injection fatigue. It's messy. It's like, did I get the dosing right? Did I do all the pieces of an injection right? You can have swelling and redness and all these things that happen after an injection. So I asked myself the question, what would be a way to replace injection with a technology that actually worked so that we can utilize these tools and introduce them to the masses?

And really, that's where kind of my journey and path evolved to this day. So if you ask when I was a kid, would I know I'd be standing here now? Not exactly. It's been a fun journey to find my way. But it's a really cool time to be alive because the technologies that are being pushed and advanced in science and health care, like true health care, not sick care, are some of the coolest things that I think we're going to get to see over the next 20 to 30 years.

Melanie Avalon
I love that so much. I feel like you ended up exactly where you're supposed to be with what you're doing. This is so amazing. Yeah, it's interesting.

So I mean, because when you hear you're talking about like the power of peptides as an alternative route to conventional pharmaceuticals, people might not realize because I know actually I didn't realize this. Things like insulin are peptides and things like the you know, the glp one medications that people are using like those and pick and all that those are peptides. So like peptides are everywhere very mainstream. And then also, there are all these other ones that people are using for specific reasons and causes. So just for people who are not familiar with the world of peptides. So you guys have I was right when I said you have five, right? So you have BPC 157, GHK CU, CJC 1295, PT 141, and thymosin alpha one. And I'm just laughing because I was talking with a friend who does do peptides. And then there was another person in the room the same time, he was laughing about how whenever she talks about peptides, it just sounds like this, you know, future language like number letter thing. It's like a code that you have to crack. These five that you have are actually just stepping back. So the world of the world of peptides in general, you're mentioning how how incredible they are, how you've been using them for so long. But they're, you know, especially in the US, relatively becoming more mainstream. How would you describe them to people like what they actually are? Because it's just so broad.

Sarah Morgan
Peptides are very simply put a mini protein. They're a sequence of amino acids that are kind of like little pearls on a string that make up a necklace and they can be anywhere really from 2 to 50 in length is what we would consider a peptide. Insulin is 52 amino acids in length so it's a bigger peptide and so all of these are considered as small molecules and what peptides do, one they're natural. This is why it's such a cool new space because our body is making about 7,000 peptides every single day.

So when we think about these different peptide sequences that we're utilizing they're already naturally occurring. So BPC157, I call them letters and numbers, people are like what in the world does this mean and it's it is almost like you know learning code for you know doing something on your computer you know you're learning that of like what your biochemistry as a computer is and what you're gonna plug in of these different peptides. They are impacting different pathways in your body and peptides are acting as signaling molecules so they are going to go into your body and elicit different benefits whether that would be something like immune function, metabolic health, helping with your metabolism, fat burning, mitochondrial function. There's all kinds of different peptides. What's going to be a massive explosion of personalization. So we have probably about 20 peptides that are somewhat popular if we think about more the biohacking or progressive space and I think we're gonna see hundreds of them come to market in a variety of different ways and we can talk all about that regulatory wise because you're absolutely correct that peptides some of them have already been classified as drugs, others we don't really know how to classify them and others are actually dietary supplements and glutathione is an example of a dietary supplement peptide it's a tripeptide that a lot of people know it's the body's main antioxidant it helps with detoxification and it's a little tiny tripeptide that's very magical.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. So many questions from there.

One question, because you were talking about, you were saying some of them are pharmaceuticals, some are, you know, supplements. What determines whether or not something becomes a pharmaceutical? Is it just like a patent on the organization of the peptide? Like, like what determines that?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, it's a great question that I think we're seeing even an evolution of these different categories. So if we think about pharmaceuticals, there's prescription pharmaceuticals and then there's over-the-counter pharmaceuticals. So there's even a couple of different classes regulatory-wise. There's also a regulatory class called medical foods. Medical foods are sort of a crossover between a dietary supplement and a drug, and they're used for the specific nutritional needs of a disease state. And then we have dietary supplements. Dietary supplements were actually established in the 1990s with disheay laws. And dietary supplements, basically they can't cure, treat, prevent any kind of disease state. And this is where the big difference of a drug to a dietary supplement according to the FDA in the United States occurs.

So a drug would be something that is actually going to be utilized to prevent, treat, cure some kind of disease state. What's interesting is I think we're seeing a blurring of those lines with peptides, and it's going to get very interesting. We work with one of the top FDA regulatory attorneys in the country with Instamed, and it's a very, very interesting evolving space because again, these are in our body. Our body's making them, right? You can measure some of these peptides like GHK-CU, you mentioned that, that's a tripeptide, we can talk more about that. But it's in human plasma, our body's making it. It's a very interesting conversation that we're going to have about peptides. And I think it's not only use, but it's also going to come down to delivery format. So it's really interesting. NAC, N-acetylcysteine, which is one of the amino acids that makes up glutathione, was actually approved for treatment IV for Tylenol, acetaminophen overdose. So if your kid got too much Tylenol, you took them into the ER, they're going to get an NAC IV, and that's actually going to treat the acetaminophen overdose, that is a drug. But NAC was a really popular supplement. It helps with mucus, breaking up mucus during COVID. And it's a really key player, kind of the rate limiting amino acid is what most people would say for the production of glutathione. Glutathione and NAC in an oral format are considered dietary supplements. So we are in a very frontier cutting edge space that I think is going to require years and years of definition, it's very gray in terms of really not understanding everything. And I also really deeply believe that peptides should have their own class because I don't really think they are drugs at all. Are they nutraceuticals and can be applied that way potentially, but they're like souped up supplements is what I would like to summarize them as. But our current products that we have, we do classify them as nutraceuticals as an oral delivery format.

Melanie Avalon
Was the NAC that approval for the Tylenol overdose treatment, was that the time period when they were trying to make any like take NAC off the market for like a brief moment?

Sarah Morgan
Yep. So that was the Tylenol approval of a treatment was, I want to say like back in the 80s or 90s. It was a long time ago.

It was approved as an IV treatment. And then more recently during the pandemic is when it surfaced. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
The frustrating thing when things like that happen and this is why i'm just i'm really really not to make the whole episode about like that. Classification of pharmaceuticals and medications but i'm so fascinated by it and i'm fascinated fascinated by how.

Like casual seems at times like cuz i'll think about i'm like why is melatonin and over at the counter supplement when it's a hormone compared to like these other hormones that you have to get by prescription doesn't make sense to me. You know things we have here in europe will be classified differently and then like when the nac thing happened during covid. I just felt like all these things are coming out saying nac was dangerous and i was like no it's because they're trying to like do it for other like pharmaceutical related things like you know so i'm just really interested by it and then i have my own supplement line so i'm always dealing with like the claims and so i just love this conversation and i agree with you about peptides you know the need for them being their own category. So huge question that i have personally the peptide itself does the body have any i guess indication if a peptide is endogenously created versus taken from an exogenous source or is it blind to that.

Sarah Morgan
I mean, it's sort of the way to think about it. If it's the same sequence the body is making, it's the same in a very similar way that bioidentical hormones are truly identical to our own biology of what the hormones are making.

Now, sometimes there's different esters, you know, that are attached to parts like a testosterone, for example. They can alter some of that. But yeah, I mean, it is basically body identical when we're thinking about these peptides.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So taking the peptide to the body, it communicates as if we had made it ourselves naturally, essentially. Amy has a really good question that kind of covers what we just talked about, then adds a little bit of nuance. So I think I'll read it.

So she said, given the stability and absorption challenges of peptides, what independent data exists comparing oral strip bioavailability to injectables? And are these considered supplements or prescription medication in terms of regulation? In addition, how do manufacturers verify that peptide integrity is maintained during the strip formulation process and what assurances exist around peptide sourcing and purity? So basically, she was wondering about the regulation, which we kind of talked about. But when it comes to actually formulating the peptides in this oral strip form, which I guess we can hear about, we should probably hear about the technology that you're using here. How are you doing testing? Is there third-party testing, the sourcing, the purity? People are really, I think, nervous about the whole peptide world. So what is happening there?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah. Well, Juan, thank you for asking the questions. We should ask the questions in terms of quality and manufacturing processes. So in terms of what we do in the manufacturing process, and this happens in dietary supplements, this happens in pharma, medical foods, all of that, we receive raw materials of everything that we use for our strips. And those all have COAs, so certificate of analysis. And we're an NSF certified GMP facility. So we have a lot of requirements in terms of what kind of raw materials that we can receive and accept in terms of the COAs done. We also send things out. If we're working with a new supplier, let's say for something that's in our strip, we test that ourselves. And we do that every now and then just to kind of keep up with quality. Any good manufacturer will do that. So that's the first part.

And then our strip manufacturing process involves a homogenization. And so, and then when we actually make the strips, it's made on this almost like a big fruit roll up is a way to think about how the strips are made, and then they're actually cut. And so we can produce the strips at any thickness we want, and then any size that we want. Some of that has to do with the dose. Some of it has to do with how fast or how slow we want it to dissolve when we stick it on the oral mucosa. Then what we do is cut it into a very specific size. And all of that is tested in terms of dosing. So we send that off after production, a post-production testing to look at all the microbials, all the heavy metals, everything a lot of people would be familiar with for a dietary supplement, as well as label claim, which is you'd want that in a dietary supplement as well, to show the peptide stability and the content of the strip. And we typically use Eurofins for testing. They're one of the top labs in the country and world to do that kind of testing.

Melanie Avalon
John had a question. He said, how to make sure you are safe and not getting endotoxins that will show an effect in a few years from now.

And it sounds like in general with this world of peptides, I'm not trying to answer the question for you, but it sounds like you would need to get peptides from a source like Instamed where there is all this testing. Would that be important for that?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, it would. And endotoxins are... There's a couple of famous podcasters that have made this one an important talking point. I think the piece of endotoxins is an important one to understand. It's incredibly important if you're doing injection.

So an injection peptide has to be sterile or it's extremely dangerous for you to use. We're an oral facility. We still, again, have certified GMP, NSF, which is the highest level certification in the United States. Because you're not injecting it right into the body, it's not really the same conversation in terms of delivery. But yeah, all of our peptides are tested for all of that if that was part of the question he was asking.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I was wondering about that. So is there a conversation out there? So the endotoxin specifically, is that something that associates with the peptide production process for injectables?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, it's more important and injectable and it would be like a 503b which is a sterile compounding pharmacy because it's not just in the peptides but actually could be in the manufacturing process and bottling process that there could be some kind of contamination let's say in a vial which is yeah something that you know you definitely don't want to have but at the same time the other nuance and caveat here because I like bringing full information is every product that exists on the market actually has a limit of endotoxin so like even bacteria static water that everybody buys for their peptides if they're doing that way that has a limit of the amount of endotoxins that can exist in it so it isn't the fact that like there is nothing in anything that exists on planet earth it's that it doesn't have a level that would be dangerous to human health and I know you had mentioned like that could show up a couple years later it doesn't even show up a couple years later it's something that can be problematic like with one injection.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, wow. Yeah, this is so, so helpful.

So the part that I think we can still talk about from Amy's question, and I will actually combine it with Teresa's question as well to make it a broader question, but she asked about given the stability and absorption challenges of peptides, or she was you know mentioning that. So my broader question there, because I know when I, so to a few people, I have mentioned the idea of a peptide oral strip, and the immediate reaction is that doesn't work. Like peptides need to be injected. People are skeptical about the oral absorption route. So we love your thoughts there on the technology that you've created to, you know, make this really effective. And then on top of that, for example, Teresa says, I feel like there is so much area to get scammed here. What are the peptides that don't work via strip to watch out for? What are the most effective? And then she also wants to know the actual ingredients. Are there plastics or other chemicals? So to like put that on to one easier to answer question, this oral absorption technology that you've created, how does it work for peptides? You know, is it as effective as injectables? Do all peptides work that way? Do some not work? Do some work better? Yeah, I'd love to hear about that.

Sarah Morgan
Our delivery technology, it's sublingual because we are dietary supplements on our box, we have to say that. The best way to use our strip is put it on your tongue and let it stick to the roof of your mouth or stick it on your cheek, which is transoral mucosal delivery. This is a known delivery technology that a lot of different actives are delivered through this way because it's leveraging the magic of your mouth. Your mouth loves sugars and amino acids, so peptides work perfectly for this delivery format. So one thing for people to know is this isn't new in terms of a delivery format.

There's a lot of things that can be delivered, including nicotine. Sometimes people are like, oh, yeah, is a substance that can be delivered this way. So our technology, not every strip is created equal, and that's something that's really important to understand. We have filed eight patents to date and we have what's called an insta-release technology.

That insta-release technology has three different aspects of our delivery mechanisms for this oral mucosal strip. The first one is that we need it to adhere. It needs to stick really well to the mucosal lining because that's creating the surface area for those actives to actually cross that mucosal lining. The second aspect is we give our actives a molecular hug and we use different ingredients. This is all part of our technology. We're patented. It's not published yet, so once it's published, we can talk way more details. We can't talk about all the different things that we use, but I will tell you this. They're natural, same as peptides. We don't use weird chemicals or things that would irritate your mouth. If you chat GPT stuff, too, just please remember, chat GPT is not going to pull data newer than five years old.

So this is a space that is rapidly evolving. This delivery type format, I should say, is being worked on for up to insulin, which is a massive peptide, huge jalton size. So there's all kinds of cool advancements that are happening. So first we stick it and we stick it good. Then we give it a molecular hug. Then we actually cross the mucosal border is the third step. And we use different penetration enhancers that are also part of our patented delivery technology based off of Dalton size and the chemical characteristics of that peptide. Now, in general, the smaller the peptide, the easier it's going to cross the border. The bigger it is, it gets more challenging to an extent. And so we actually make our delivery technology more complex, the larger and the more complex that peptide molecule is. If you chat GPT, which I've had a lot of people reach out and they're like, you can't do over 500 Daltons. And I'm like, that is correct without delivery technology that allows this to happen. So there's a lot of nuance here. And then I love all the questions about what ones and what percent efficiency we are working on all that data right now. We have a GLP in a pharmokinetic study with a partner pharmaceutical company with 20 humans.

Sarah Morgan
We are tracking not only blood levels of the peptide, but we're also looking at clinical outcomes. And our goal is to present that data at a forum's longevity annual conference in Las Vegas in December.

We also have two other studies happening right now with our CJC, which is a secrete agar. We're looking at growth hormone IGF one levels, which that's how that peptide works. So peptides are really interesting because they're small molecules. So to catch them in the blood can be very challenging because detection limits aren't set. They're not commercialized. They're in and out so fast because they're going to these target tissues really quickly and then they're eliciting a response. So some of our study designs that we are implementing are actually efficacy. And what we're expecting is to get similar biomarkers that move in a way that we would expect from injection. So injection in general is about 89 percent bioavailable. That number depends on the peptide, depends on you as a person, depends on where you inject it, how much fat you have under your skin. There's a lot of variables. There's going to be also some variation and variability with our oral, too. I think it's interesting, like someone who has like a more acidic pH, they're probably going to, in their mouth, they're probably going to dissolve the strip faster, right? Or someone who has dry mouth, it might dissolve a little bit slower. Is that going to impact efficacy? Those are things that we're going to have to learn over time. We don't know that yet. What I would say is, yes, we want to know all of it, too, to some of the questions that were asked. We don't have all of those hard data points yet, but we're working on it.

Melanie Avalon
for peptides, the most effective way to evaluate effectiveness is more to look at, is it changing the, like the intended health goal biomarkers rather than the actual peptide in the bloodstream?

Sarah Morgan
Correct. And most, there are two labs in the United States that can even measure a couple of peptides in human blood. So we are very, very early in this level.

It's not like, I want to go to LabCorp and get my testosterone levels done. We're not there with peptides. So I think we will be. I think peptides are the future of health. I think peptides will be as common as multivitamins in terms of use. And I think we will see commercialization, but it's going to be over the next five to 10 years.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. This made me think of quite a few questions personally for me.

So the first one, speaking of chat GPT. So prior to first trying your strips, I was doing research with chat GPT about where is the best location in the mouth to absorb. It was saying like the interior, like the inside of the cheek and it was saying the roof of the mouth was not ideal. And then I kind of panicked because the first, not panic, but first time I tried one, you're talking about how these strips, you know, adhere to your mouth. I was like, I literally have a memory in my head of like how quickly it like went to the roof of my mouth and it like attached itself. And I was like, whoa, it was wild. And then I was like, Oh no, this is the roof of my mouth, not the inside of my cheek. I'm not getting the absorption. So was chat incorrect with the roof of the mouth or is it better on the inside of the cheek or the tongue?

Sarah Morgan
So we're working on the data there to know that. So I don't like to answer a question with confidence unless I confidently have the data to support it.

What I will say from our case studies, and we actually have a couple of case studies we're going to be publishing here soon, we are getting great response with either placement.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I've been Sarah, I've been like really over analyzing this placement in the mouth, especially with how sticky it is. So I like literally put it in. I like tiptoe putting it in because I'm like, just go to the side of my mouth. Don't touch the roof of the mouth.

Okay, this is awesome. And I really appreciate what you said about, you know, only providing verified data on things. So I really appreciate that. Actually, to that point, because you mentioned injections being around 89%, really depending on the independent person. Do you have a guess of the percent absorption rate of these strips

Sarah Morgan
We're really hoping it's anywhere from about, and again, it depends on the peptide. So the bigger the peptide, like our GLPs that we're working on, we really had to soup them up with delivery technology like the most of any of our formulas. And I would be thrilled at 70% for that one.

But I think some of our other peptide formats might actually work faster than injection. So anywhere from 70% to maybe 95% I think could be realistic in terms of what we see for some of the peptides that we're studying.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, awesome. This is a question that I have. I just have this in general about medications.

I have it about stem cells. I have it now about peptides, especially thinking about it with what you're saying with the absorption, it going into the bloodstream, but we can't even really measure that that well. Is the effect, especially given that there's, like you said, hundreds of peptides out there, how does the peptide know where to go? Is it like it gets into your bloodstream and then it affects everything all over your body? But then some of these are for very specific purposes. Does it go everywhere in your body? I think about this all the time.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah. So let's take BPC for a second, because this is a peptide a lot of people know about. It stands for body protection compound 157. I don't know what it stood for. And it's a 15 amino acid peptide. We discovered it in gastric juices. So it's somewhat gastric stable. This one is one you'll see in capsule, tablet form. You can swallow it. And I will say, I do think there's maybe some GI benefit to that.

Systemic, I don't know if people get systemic effect to me. I'm like, Oh, that's a clue. You probably have leaky gut because you're getting more across into your bloodstream. That's a whole side conversation. But that is a side conversation.

Melanie Avalon
Same with the brain, I feel, like things getting into the brain, it's like, oh, well, should it be getting into your brain?

Sarah Morgan
Exactly. Leaky mitochondria, all kinds of things to think about. But with BPC1571, we know that areas that are injured in the body, tissues that have injury, do send out signals. Basically, kind of like an SOS, help me, BPC responds to that signal.

What's super interesting about BPC that I find that to me is one of the most fascinating things about the peptide is some people will take our strip, like we were just at a conference 10 days ago and I had people coming up and they're like, I took one dose of BPC and my back felt better. My shoulder is better. I could move my wrist without pain for the first time in six months. I mean, some people have this like almost immediate response to an injury site that they're very aware of, right? Other people will take BPC and they'll be like, Sarah, I don't notice anything. Now I've seen this injection. I've seen it oral. There's a capsule with the strips, all of it. There's this really interesting variance and response. And at first I was like, what is going on with that? And then what I would say is just keep going. I want you to keep taking it. And what would happen is over time, someone who is, let's say, taking it for their back, like, oh my gosh, I have back pain. Two months in, they're like, oh, now my back is better. And it was almost this cliff that they had to get to. And I'm like, oh, I sat down and I finally realized I'm like, the body was prioritizing other areas. BPC is amazing for your brain. We've studied it for TBIs, post-stroke. It is incredible for your gut lining. If you have leaky gut, it is one of the coolest new tools you should be using for gut health, probiotics, prebiotics. All these things are awesome. They're single amino acids that have been used for a long time, like glutamine for the gut. BPC is like souped up peptide for gut healing. A lot of us have gut issues, right? The other thing that BPC does is it works on the endothelial lining of your blood vessels. When I list all this stuff, these aren't necessarily things that you can feel that are injured, inflamed, or wrong with your body. BPC is also really liver and kidney protective. There's a lot of us that have issues with those organs. They don't have any feelings. So we're not like, gosh, my liver is really inflamed today. It hurts. It's not the same process. So they work in a very wise way in the body, is what I would say. And it's wise beyond, I think, what we're going to be able to understand for a long time where they prioritize the most severe issues first.

Melanie Avalon
Sounds really similar to stem cells, stem cell release and being recruited to various injured tissues. And like, where do they go? And what do they do?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah. And BPC would be. Now, CJC is one of our products, which is a secretagogue. That, when you ask, like, is it systemic? Is it specific? That is an example of a peptide that is a very specific action in the body. And it is going to impact the pituitary's release of growth hormone. And what that does, and then IGF-1 levels in the liver, and growth hormone helps kids grow. Growth hormone helps adults repair and heal. We release melatonin to go to sleep. Then we release growth hormone. That's what gets us into a really nice deep restorative sleep.

So as you get older, a lot of people start to lose that ability to get that really great deep restorative sleep. They're waking up more. They're more restless. Our growth hormone levels decrease by 15% every decade once we hit age 30. Okay. So it's like, I wake up in the morning. I don't feel as rested. I'm more creaky. Your growth hormone levels aren't doing the same repair, healing, restoration, good, deep sleep as when you were 20. So this is a very specific action that then has all of these amazing downstream effects, including metabolic health. So CJC as a secretagogue helps with muscle mass. It helps with beta oxidation. So you're going to see better cholesterol levels. You're going to have fat loss because you're burning fat as an energy source more efficiently. It protects cartilage from further damage. It makes hormone receptors more sensitive. So people who are on HRT who pair that with a secretagogue are going to feel fantastic because their hormones are going to work better. So there's all kinds of cool benefits, but it stems from a very specific action in the body that that peptide is eliciting.

Melanie Avalon
So I have a few questions specifically about this one about the CJC 1295. Do you know what a CJC stand for? Do you know?

Sarah Morgan
I don't even know if it has, I don't know that that one actually has an, it's an acronym. I'm going to just self-profess. I'm not sure that it does stand for anything. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
So it's not like the BPC one where it actually was something.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, they're all like a little different, and I could be wrong on that, but I've never read what CJC stands for. Okay, perfect.

Melanie Avalon
So questions about this one. So first of all, where should I start? So it sounds like it's really great for supporting growth hormone for all these benefits. What about the concept that IGF-1 levels tend to be negatively linked to longevity? Is there the potential of having too much growth hormone turned on? And with this one, would the timing of turning it on matter? Because they know, for example, that like while fasting, one of the benefits of fasting is like lowering IGF-1 levels or like a calorie restricted diet lowering those growth hormone levels. So would this be something where you don't want to be having it like all the time?

Maris had a very similar question. She said, how much is too much? And I'm assuming she's referring to CJC 1295, because she says, for example, is there a threshold where cells start multiplying or growing when they should not be? So basically, this idea of I get nervous about, because I see all these potentials of the growth hormone. Also, I'm like, I don't know that I know when I need to be turning it on, if that makes sense.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, so we always want to look back to the body, right? What is the body doing? The body naturally pulses growth hormone at night, so we want to mimic that. We have another pulse in the morning, maybe sometime midday as adults. Kids are making growth hormone all the time, but as adults, that's what we're doing.

So we recommend people take our CJC strip 30 minutes before bed because it's mimicking your natural release. Now, this is not exogenous growth hormone. That's a really important distinction. This is just helping your pituitary gland release growth hormone. It's already produced. Your growth hormone is produced from your pituitary gland until you're about 120 years old. I mean, the gland is able to do it really well. Your release of that is really compromised as you get older each decade. Now, the other interesting thing is because it's a circadian hormone, blue light, circadian disruption, all these things that excessive stress, eating at weird times, are going to impact growth hormone release outside of anything to do with peptides. So what I would say is modern life actually would, I would say, it's even more important to optimize those. Now, IGF-1 levels, we have a scientific advisory board that we're building. I can't publicly announce them just yet, but there are some of the best medical doctors in the space who have been using peptides clinically for over a decade in the US. They believe secretagogues are some of the most powerful longevity tools that can be utilized. And again, it comes into it's not a black or white. There's a lot of nuance with peptides. And if you use them well and pulse them, so five days on, two days off is what we recommend, weekdays on, weekends off, and you do a cycle of three months for all or four.

Melanie Avalon
for this one.

Sarah Morgan
I would say it depends. We're talking about CJC, so that's the cycle for CJC. GLPs are a little bit different how people are using them, but I'm a big proponent of cycling everything. And I mean that like your food, your time, your exercise, your supplements, your peptides, because we want to keep receptor sensitivity in the body when we're thinking about peptides.

But some of our scientific advisory boards that use peptides in people 60 plus, they're going to use a secretagogue and they're not going to cycle them off because their growth hormone levels are half what they were when they were 20. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
So the p t one forty one i know people are very excited about no pun intended so this one when people think of anything of it for boosting libido in particular and i know when i actually so when i first when j first told me about you he had did i. Meet i think i recorded with him right after the bio hacking yes i recorded with him right after the bio hacking conference the most recent one in austin.

And he said that he had received samples of the p t one forty one from you like at the conference and that he was handing them out and the people were just raving about it for its effect on like people could really feel it for boosting their. libido and such so questions what are the primary benefits damon he said who benefits more from p t one forty one men or women and how often can you use it. And then i have another question which you might answer when you answer this, so i will i will hold that question but just in general the benefits men versus women how often you can use it.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, I love this question. Okay, so our formula PT-141 Plus, it actually has a little bit of oxytocin and something called immunophenopyrally. It's another peptide a lot of people have never heard of that sort of works like an ED med. So erectile dysfunction in males is typically addressed with prescription medications like Viagra. We'll just use the brand names as we're talking. That works for a certain percentage of men.

I believe it's about like 62% of men because your nitric oxide pathway actually has to work. There's also off-label use for women because blood flow is a really big part of pleasure, arousal, ability to orgasm. So our formula, the immunophenopyrally is the most similar to a traditional ED med. Oxytocin is a peptide that's like the connection peptide. So we put it in there because I think in modern world, it's where we feel so disconnected and actually use the word disassociated sometimes to connect with your partner is so powerful, not just on a physical level, but emotional as well. And then PT-141 works in the central nervous system.

It's actually working on specific receptors in the brain all the way down to the body to improve arousal, desire, and orgasm. It was originally used in women who had low sexual desire. And what I will say about this formula, because I'm a big proponent of I'm going to tell it as it is, it doesn't work for 100% of people. Similar to how any medication or supplement isn't going to work for 100% of people.

I think most people get some kind of benefit or they'll notice something. But here's the really interesting thing about PT-141 specifically, no matter the format, if it's a strip injection, there's even intranasal. Everybody has a little bit of a different type response in terms of timing of effect. And what I mean by that is we tell people like take a strip 30 to 45 minutes before desired connection time. Most people are going to get that peak benefit around that timeframe. But there's a percentage of the population that are delayed responders that have maximum benefit four to six hours after they take a dose.

And most of those people, when we're thinking about a date night and connection, they're asleep at that point. And they're like, oh, it didn't do anything for me. Now there are people I think it doesn't work as well. So you have to give it a try is really the way that I say it. We have people who absolutely love our PT-141 plus formula. And then we have people who are kind of playing around with ideal timeline of dosing to really see where their effect is. And also men can take a little bit of a higher dose than women. So sometimes like a bigger male, if you're like 230 pounds, I'll say take two strips. Now the other piece of this that you asked or this person who asked the question, it was really smart, how often can you use it? This is another peptide that's really interesting as a formula that you have to have a 24 hour period of a washout between you.

Sarah Morgan
So I had a guy reach out and he's like, Sarah, my wife and I had the best sex we've had in like 10 years. It was a magical night.

And then he's like, and then we used it again the next night and it didn't do anything. And I was like, yeah, you have to let those receptors fully kind of wash out to get that sensitivity back. So the max you really want to use the formula is three days a week. And I would, you know, some of that is you just have to play around maybe it's like two days a week to really get the maximum effect. So this one is very specific to your metabolism, your body, and in terms of timeline, and then a little bit on dosing too. And you do have to take breaks between use.

Melanie Avalon
So would a good protocol or approach be like when you first get it, take it maybe during the day and see if you naturally get a boost at some point to figure out when it's hitting you?

Like would you notice like will you notice like if you took it and then just go about your day would then will you have like a moment where you're like huh let me let me find a man.

Sarah Morgan
Some people, it's like really fast.

I was at a conference and I had a doctor take a strip, but we were all just sitting there meeting and she's like, I wanna see how this works.

And she was like, whoa.

And for her, it was a circulation, like blood flow, massive change.

She had within like two to three minutes for her.

Now, another thing about peptides, they're better to use in a fasted state because they're signaling.

I was gonna ask that.

So that's another thing that if people are like, well, I'm not really sure if I'm noticing anything with the PT-141, what I really encourage them to do is to take it away from food a bit further.

So an hour is great, but if you're really struggling to notice anything with a peptide, do longer during a fasting period, just in general, no matter what kind of peptide you're using.

Typically, that's really helpful.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, okay. And is that is that the reason that it comes in a 10 count rather than 20 count like the others because you don't take it as much?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, and one of the things, we had a really great suggestion. We're always open to suggestions, so everybody listening, they're like, give us all your feedback because we want to learn.

We are also going to start selling them in a two-pack, which we're really excited about, so that you can try them, you know, it's like a date night two-pack, you know, kind of deal which we're really excited about.

Melanie Avalon
This is so funny. My suggestion just from this would be, I, okay, well, how to how to use are there other instructions inside the box, like all this information you're giving about when to take it is so helpful and I don't see it on the box.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, we have a bunch of educational materials we just created that are available, including like a chart with dosing and protocols and kind of how to cycle five days on, two days off. You know, an ideal cycle is eight weeks or 12 weeks and, you know, things like PT 141, three days a week max, we have all of that.

And then we even have stacking charts to really show how you can stack the different peptides because they can be synergistic in effect, which again is a really neat thing, depending on the benefits, health outcomes that you're looking.

Melanie Avalon
for. Okay, that's incredible. And will that be at your website, at your website, getinstamed.com? It is.

Sarah Morgan
Yes, yet we're building all of those educational materials.

Melanie Avalon
Well, okay, perfect. And then there's so there's one more I think I feel like listeners are really going to want to be getting this PT 141. Plus, I now realize I didn't realize that there were the other ingredients in it. That's incredible.

So the GHK CU so people, when they think about this one, I think they think skin health, yeah, glowing skin, things like that. Is that the primary use case for this one? Or what else is it for?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, it's so many use cases that are even, I would say, more medical in nature as we go. You know the people who are really bendy? They have connective tissue, EDS-type spectrum of disease. This is, I think, a peptide that we're gonna see utilized to stabilize connective tissue in these individuals.

So this peptide is sort of like a stem cell. We're studying it for anti-cancer properties. It regulates our epigenome. So it turns on and off the light switches above our genome, which is very, very powerful. It helps with collagen and elastin, which is why we love it for our skin health, and it really does work. I mean, within 10 to 12 weeks, and most people notice it sooner. They're like, wow, my skin looks better, especially perimenopause, our estradiol levels go down. We need a little extra support to get that good skin texture, tone, thickness. This is a really great demographic to use. And for men, right, as we get older, just in general, it also helps with hair follicle size. So your existing hair follicles are healthier, stronger, and new hair follicle development.

Melanie Avalon
Wow, okay. Yeah, I know this is the one peptide that, especially when I was talking with Jay, he was saying this is the one peptide that, you know, people do use topically often because it directly affects the skin.

So yeah, I was curious if you would get the effects systemically from taking it orally. So Mary wanted to know about post-minipause peptides. So you said perimenopause, would this be good post-minipause as well?

Sarah Morgan
Yes, perimenopause, postmenopause, that whole scenario, yes. And anyone who's just looking to have better appearing skin, hair, I mean, we've had people within weeks, we've had men say their beard repigments, so they'll have gray hair grow back with the color, which is so incredible.

You know, again, I think we'll see some more medical use cases like EDS to stabilize connective tissue for joints, for, you know, their veins and their arteries and some other really kind of important pieces that can be life changing for people.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing and then I said that was the last one but it's because I didn't have right in front of me the one I've actually currently been taking every day because I'm so excited about it which is i'm a sin alpha one so. This one i'm just so fascinated by this so this actually affects our time and i can help immune conditions is that what's happening there.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, this was actually discovered in our thymus and a gland. And as adults, you know, that kind of like shrivels up and goes away.

And another thing that I'll call out that's really interesting is Harvard, or excuse me, not Harvard, it was actually Stanford published their omics data last fall. And they basically showed that aging isn't linear, we have a massive metabolic aging event at about age 44. Then we have a big aging event of our immune system. 61. And if you think about people, like when they get cancer, when disease states start to really progress, you look into their 60s and 70s, and immune dysregulation is such a key piece of basically almost every disease process. Thymus and alpha-1 is an immune optimizer. It's almost like an immune adaptogen, sort of like the herbals we think about like ashwagandha that help with, you know, if you're too low or too high, it brings you to this beautiful place of balance for yourself where your body needs to be. That's what thymus and alpha does for your immune system.

So it is an antimicrobial, it has anti fungal properties, antiviral properties, you can use it acutely for immune support, you can use it for chronic issues like chronic viral issues. So these are people with, you know, mold and Epstein-Barr and Lyme and all these things that, you know, they're trying and all these treatments and their immune systems are dysregulated. We also know it works really well for autoimmunity because it helps with Treg cells. Treg cells are going to, they're T cells that are going to really provide that beautiful balance of the teeter-totter of our immune system. This peptide has also been studied as a cancer adjuvant in breast, lung, kidney. I always forget melanoma and liver cancers.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. Yeah. So I'm really excited by this one.

I've had this chronic sinus infection that just feels like it's always, it's just something in my sinuses that won't go away. And like if I get stressed is when it kind of comes out, like peaks its head out. So I'm excited to like be on this consistently and see if maybe hopefully it will help that.

When did you say the first aging thing happens at what age?

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, about age 44, we have a metabolic aging event. And this is where GLPs become really helpful because it gives us our insulin sensitivity back.

And interestingly enough, a lot of people notice this by like, oh my gosh, I can't tolerate alcohol very well. All of a sudden, it really impacts them because part of that metabolic aging is actually our alcohol metabolism in our mid 40s starts to go down.

Melanie Avalon
wow okay oh my goodness well i love this um so important question for you personally what are your favorites and are you do you stack do you change it up yeah just and and do you have a dream a dream peptide that you would make

Sarah Morgan
Yeah. What do I love? I love to switch it up. So currently, I'm obsessed with CJC because I'm perimenopausal. I love hormones. I take bioidentical progesterone too in my second half of my cycle because my sleep really gets impacted. Our CJC strips are incredible for sleep. And I can attest to that myself.

I have an aura ring. I can watch my REM and deep sleep and prove. I've reported that from a lot of people. And then I'm an athlete. I work out. I lift weights. I play soccer every week. I just feel insanely amazing using that peptide. And I've been being more consistent with GHKCU. Actually, my sister was just recently diagnosed with a pretty severe form of connective tissue disorder that does impact her vascular system. I think I have probably like some kind of minor. I'm a little bendy. I have a minor format of that. So I don't know how much it will impact my skin. But I think for me, I'm more focused on even like my vascular system as I get older to make sure that the integrity there is good coming from my family of cardiologists. So those are some of my favorites.

I also love microdosing GLPs. So once we have that dialed in, I'm very excited for that to go to market.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, I'm really intrigued by that because I think I was listening to some podcasts about the problems with the current dosings with the GLPs because it's kind of like a one size fits all and maybe like these lower amounts will be better for some people.

So um, that's interesting. Yeah, I love that. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Sarah. This has been absolutely incredible. I know listeners are dying to get their hands on some of these as soon as possible. So thank you, Sarah, we have a discount code for listeners. So if you go to get instamed.com, you can use the coupon code Melanie 15. And that will give you 15% off your entire order. So get instamed.com. Use the code Melanie 15 for 15% off your entire order.

Thank you so much, Sarah for that. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on with with your work and all of this? This was I'm just so so grateful for what you're doing.

Sarah Morgan
Yeah, I would just say thanks for having me on. I think we're all learning about peptides.

So the biggest thing I would encourage you to do is whether you're new or you've been working with peptides for a while, keep leaning in and keep paying attention to the space because over the next five to 10 years, we're gonna see just incredible things happen in this space that are going to benefit humans and I think animals and all kinds of fun things down the road.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so so much and I've never done this before but I am so obsessed with this episode and this content I might I might actually air this episode on both shows. I want everybody to hear this This has been just so incredibly helpful And the last question that I ask every single guest on this show and it's just because I Realize every day the importance the importance of mindset.

So what is something that you're grateful for?

Sarah Morgan
Oh, I love that. That's an easy one for me.

I am so grateful for my family. I'm actually with my family right now. Just realize how precious life is and it goes fast. So taking all the little moments is one of my big things as a mindset that I do related to my family.

Melanie Avalon
I love it so, so much. Well, thank you, Sarah. This has been so incredible. So again, listeners, you can go to getinstamed.com. Use the coupon code Melanie15 for 15% off site-wide.

And yeah, thank you. I would love to have you back in the future, especially with how rapidly evolving all the science is. I'm sure a year from now, it'll just be like a whole entire new world that you're in. Yes, I would love that. Awesome. Well, thank you. Enjoy your time with your family. And we will talk soon. Thank you so much for listening. To the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice. And no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner. And original theme composed by Leland Cox. And recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

 

 

Welcome to Episode 450 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 450 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 450 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad, and I'm realizing in real time, I mean, 450 is kind of like an important number, and we didn't really plan anything special. But happy 450!

Barry Conrad
Happy 450. It's exciting. It's awesome. How exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, you know what? We normally, this actually works well because I think normally what we do for like 450 or 500, like the big ones is we do an AMA type thing. And we have in the lineup, like an AMA type list of questions from a listener. So we can, that can be our little honorary 450 questions. Sounds good to me.

Yeah. Well, we have to plan something for 500 though.

Barry Conrad
We let's definitely do it. Let's make something do something festive celebratory fun

Melanie Avalon
Cause that will be like in a year, right? Cause there's 52 weeks in a year. So actually no less than a year.

Cause we record, oh, probably being like half, well, half a year tomorrow. It's happy 500. Oh man. Well, how are you?

Barry Conrad
I'm doing really, really great. I'm doing amazing.

I just realized, well, this is going to be in the future, but that when it comes out, but Melanie, I have not had my Thanksgiving celebration here in America before properly. So I've been to someone's place one time, a long time ago, but that's not the same.

It was more like a work thing, but I get to like cook and or be hosted or whatever it is or host for the first time ever for Thanksgiving is a you big on Thanksgiving. How does it all work? You have to walk me through it. I'm new to this thing.

Melanie Avalon
So this airs December 1st, so happy December to everybody. Everybody, wait, when Thanksgiving this year would have just happened, I think.

Barry Conrad
just happened because what that is, it's like November.

Melanie Avalon
It's like the last Thursday of November. So this airs on a Monday. Thanksgiving would have just happened. Like Black Friday just happened. So people are probably like recovering right now from Thanksgiving. That's like where they're at.

You get all the things now. You get Halloween done American style. You get Thanksgiving, like the US holiday. And then you get the way Christmas should be done in the cold.

Barry Conrad
I know. I'm really, really excited about that.

Melanie Avalon
You get to listen to the Christmas songs and they actually will be applicable.

Barry Conrad
That actually makes sense. I always say that like to people like why the carols make sense in a white Christmas setting scenario, but I've always Thanksgiving to me is like a unicorn because it's just not something that we do in Australia.

So what are like five things or like three things I need to know about Thanksgiving that everyone needs to know if they haven't like celebrated before.

Melanie Avalon
Well, one, I can really relate to fasting, which is great. But before that, okay, so if you've never done, you've never had a proper Thanksgiving, well, so I don't really know how much knowledge you have about the holiday. So let me know if this is common knowledge or like if this was in your, in your mind already. Well, you know, we eat turkey and dressing, right? You know that.

Oh, do you know the difference between dressing and stuffing?

Barry Conrad
Stuffing is what you put inside the bird and dressing is like gravy or something. No, hold on, I'm getting this wrong. That's wrong already, isn't it?

Melanie Avalon
It's kind of a trick question.

Barry Conrad
So, stuffing is always like, I understand stuffing to be like stuffing, like you stuff the chicken or stuff the whatever bird it is with things, no?

Melanie Avalon
So it kind of depends on where you are some people call it stuffing some people call it dressing they can both be stuffed into the bird or not because basically basically like the way it goes down is there's The turkey and then there's dressing or stuffing which might be inside the turkey or it might be like a separate dish on the side It just depends what you call it. You might call it stuffing You might call it dressing but like the turkey and dressing turkey and stuffing dish is like a concept And again may or may not be inside of the bird depends on Who's cooking?

Barry Conrad
What is it made up of? What is, what is it?

Melanie Avalon
It's so good. I don't even know. It's like, it's like cornbread. It's like croutons, cornbread seasonings. What is in it?

Barry Conrad
This is a big deal. This is probably so basic to a lot of the listeners right now, but to me, everyone, this is a big deal.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, let's see. So it consists of, and people are probably still eating it because then you have leftovers for days and days. So people are probably eating it today.

See, I like this. Okay, well, chatgbt says dressing also called stuffing when cooked inside a bird, but I disagree because some people will say turkey and dressing. Some people will say turkey and stuffing and it could be in the bird either way or not, like I said. So it's bread, broth or stock, butter, vegetables, like onion, celery, carrots, garlic, sometimes. And then the seasoning is key because there's a very distinct flavor to it, which apparently is a combination of sage, thyme, rosemary, parsley, salt, and black pepper. And then sometimes they add eggs. Oh, some people add oysters. What? Coastal styles? If I was in New York and I come to you, I can't you imagine me coming to your Thanksgiving party and you have oyster stuffing, and I'd be like, what have you done?

Barry Conrad
It's like, I can't eat this, Barry.

Melanie Avalon
This is, okay, this says what you said, but I don't agree. This says baked in a dish, it's called dressing, stuffed inside a turkey or chicken, it's stuffing, but mm-mm, no, no, it depends on where you live.

I disagree, chat.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean? That's the only way.

Melanie Avalon
I'm saying I think people call it one or the other based on where they live. Exactly right. It's totally regional.

Southern U.S. people almost always say dressing, often cornbread based, that's what I'm saying, rather than white bread based, usually baked in its own dish, usually not inside the turkey, but it could be inside the turkey. Northern and Eastern United States, where you are, more often called stuffing, typically made with cubed white or sourdough bread, often cooked inside, often, not always, cooked inside the bird, hence stuffing, but you can use them interchangeably, depending on family tradition. So you're right, same cozy dish, just a matter of geography and grandma's vocabulary. I'm validated.

Barry Conrad
I think it's stuffed inside.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?

Barry Conrad
I feel like this is like an Aussie-ism-slash-American-ism situation. I mean, I'm going to be in for a-

Melanie Avalon
you should pull people at your Thanksgiving party. Are you gonna have one?

Barry Conrad
I think so, I think the plan is, I think it's going to be like a group situation with a bunch of Aussies who live here and Americans, so I think that's what's happening, but I'll keep you posted if that is. If not, then it's going to be cooking, you know, trying it for the first time.

I've never actually cooked Thanksgiving fare before, like a turkey with the whole thing, all the trimmings, you know.

Melanie Avalon
What else do you have with it? There's lots of side dishes.

So this would be like the Southern version because I've only had Southern thingsgivings besides the one that I went to in London that they were also having like you because they thought it was cute, like a cute idea. Um, things like sweet potato casserole is common. Macaroni and cheese, like lima beans, green beans. Oh, green beans. Yeah, there's a lot of like different staple dishes. And then the dessert, oh, pumpkin pie. Pumpkin pie is like that you have to have pumpkin pie for dessert, I mean.

Barry Conrad
I have tried that before once before and it was delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Only once? Oh, wow.

Okay, yeah, you're in for treats. The other little fact I'll give about it, which is, and we've talked about this actually before on the show, I think probably like last Thanksgiving. I think we've talked about this almost. I probably have talked about this with all the different co-hosts. But basically, once I started doing intermittent fasting, Thanksgiving became such a sigh of relief for me because prior to fasting, I always had a little bit of anxiety about eating all this food and gaining weight over the holidays and loving it so much and feeling indulgent, but then not feeling well after now. And people do what you want. But for me, I still do my fasting window throughout the holidays. And then I just eat the foods I want in the eating window. And I don't have any... It's so great. I get to eat all the things and I don't get the holiday weight gain.

Barry Conrad
That's great. That is really good.

It's like you, you can still, it doesn't, it's not a license. Well, you could do whatever you want. And also it's not a, you don't have to all of a sudden break your protocol. You can still continue fasting and eat the food you want. So what do you, okay. Christian, do you have more, do you have foods that you wouldn't normally have during Thanksgiving because it's Thanksgiving, even if it's in your window or no?

Melanie Avalon
I do not because I don't like how they make me feel. So for me, it's not worth it.

And I genuinely enjoy what I am eating anyways. I love turkey, but I only really eat it in the holidays because that's the holiday food. So I get really excited because I get to have my meat fest, but I get to have a lot of turkey that I don't normally have. Basically, I eat what I would normally eat. I don't eat the other things just because I don't, I personally don't, I like feeling well all the time. But I had a thought about this. What was it? Oh, I think it's also helpful. Like, when you do a one meal a day situation, and we talked about this a lot in recent episodes, but because we normally are having like a feast every night anyways, it makes the it takes away the urgency surrounding holiday eating because like in the past, it used to be like, Oh, I only feast on a holiday. So then it's like this whole thing. And you way probably overdo it because it's like one of the few times you're actually feasting. But with one meal a day fasting, I feast every night. So I enjoy it just as much, but I don't have this urgency to like, Oh, let me do the feasting because then I can't do it again for a year, you know, type thing.

Barry Conrad
I totally agree with that. I totally feel that way. Like when it comes to Christmas and things like that as well. So yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so you'll have to let me know how it goes.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and likewise as well, where are you going to be? Do you know where you're going to be this year for Thanksgiving or what you're doing or not yet? Or where you were, I should say, in the past.

Melanie Avalon
That's actually all, well, actually, Barry, if we lived in the same city, I'm going on Black Friday, so I will have just gone to the outsiders. Isn't that Australian? You're going to the outsiders? Is that Australian? I think so.

Hold on. Oh, no, it's in Oklahoma. Why did I think it was? Why did I think it was Australian? It's Oklahoma.

What am I confusing it with? Is there something similar to this that is? I don't think so.

Barry Conrad
Well, you have Australia in your mind, because I was right about the stuffing thing, so you just basically...

Melanie Avalon
I think I know what it is. I think I heard outsiders. I got this idea in my head of like the great outside. Like, I don't know. I was thinking of like the Australian Outback. Outback, that's why. And then the poster is like all these attractive men and like they look Australian. So I was like, oh, I thought it was like about these boys in the Outback, but it's not.

It's Oklahoma. Oklahoma, you know.

Barry Conrad
I was going to say same-same, but very not same-same, very different, but I'm sure it looks really good from what I'm reading what it's about. It looks like a good musical.

Melanie Avalon
I got 12 nominations at the 77th Tony Awards, including a one best musical.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I see that.

Melanie Avalon
And the cast album got a Grammy Award for Best Musical Theater Album. Must be pretty good.

Barry Conrad
Must be amazing.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going on Black Friday. That's the other thing that you need to know about because they don't have Black Friday in Australia, right?

Barry Conrad
Well, I think we try to adopt it kind of thing, but I don't think it's, it's probably not like, it's probably really a thing here. Like what does, what does it mean here?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, can I tell you a memory thing situation? Tell me. So like it's different now because you know, now we have like the internet and stuff. So Black Friday deals is a lot of like online stuff and, but growing up before the internet, Black Friday, and people still do this, but not to the, I don't know if they do it to the extent that they did before, it was like, you had to physically go to the stores and that's where all the deals were.

So people like Black Friday was like, you get up at like 6 a.m. and like, go to the store. It's like stressful. That's intense. I know people still do it, I think at like Walmart and stuff, but I do not venture into the stores on Black Friday.

Barry Conrad
Is that when you see all those things, like people fighting over things in the stores and stuff?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like for most Americans like if you say Black Friday, we just get this like because like it's like that vibe

Barry Conrad
Why put yourself through it? Just stay home and order online.

Melanie Avalon
Now it's all online. And so ironically, and I don't like this being the answer, because it kind of sounds like Scrooge, but Black Friday is like the busiest time. If you're like an entrepreneur with like a product line, it's like the busiest time for work. So even though you want to be, you know, I mean, I do the family things and everything. But it's a very busy time.

Because it's like your biggest sales of the year, usually. There's a lot to that goes into it. Do you think you'll fast that day?

Barry Conrad
You know what, I probably will fast up until whenever the festivities begin, you know, like, you know, which could be early, could be later. On holidays, a rule of thumb for me is I don't necessarily just go off just all day, but I will be more lenient and usually in the lead up, I'll prepare myself for it so that I'm not going to be undoing everything.

So I might be a bit more tight on my food choices and things like that, so that I can enjoy it a little bit more because my approach is a bit more liberal to Melanie's, which is totally fine. Everyone has different approaches, so I will enjoy it. I won't be crazy, but I'll eat the things that I want to eat, but not necessarily the all day, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think everybody should do what they want. I really appreciate your approach.

I think you have a very healthy approach to how you approach fasting and you're eating and everything. So like the Barry Conrad style of it, I'm like, I endorse. I don't do it, but I endorse it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's also one of those things where developing a healthy relationship with food has taken a while for me as well. And so doing it that way keeps me out of a diet brain from the past.

So I like to enjoy and have zero guilt and then just I find it super easy just to jump straight back into my protocol. It's not something that I have to warm into. I can go from zero to 100. You know, that's just sort of my personality. So I can just stop the next day.

Melanie Avalon
That's the way I am. I can jump right. I mean, if I were to, like, it just, I've always been that way. Like I'm very good at like jumping right back in. I actually, I look forward to it.

Barry Conrad
And then I usually just takes, I just know my body at this point. So they usually just take me maybe a few days to just drop that water weight and that extra glycogen and stuff.

And I'll just be back to my feeling like my normal self again and looking like my normal self again. Not freaking out about, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I will do a quick plug, something that will really help people during all the holiday feasting, assuming they're out by now, get my digestive enzymes, because they should be out and they will be a game changer for all of the holiday eating, I promise you. They help you break down all the different types of foods, so protein, fat, carbs, fiber, no problematic ingredients, and they ease digestive distress, help you assimilate nutrients, all the things.

So, hopefully, they're out by now, and if so, you can get them at AvalonX.us. They're called AvalonX Digest, and you can use the coupon code IF Podcast for 10% off. So, shameless plug. Do it. Shall we jump into some fasting-related things?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump in.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I have a study to start us off with. So this study was published in May 2022 in the journal is called Curious. And the title of the study is Potential Effects of Prolonged Water-Only Fasting Followed by a Whole Plant Food Diet on Salty and Sweet Taste Sensitivity and Perceived Intensity, Food Liking, and Dietary Intake. And so the background on finding this story, I specifically wanted to find a study on fasting that would look at our taste perception after fasting. So that's what I was looking for.

I found it and what's funny is I read the title and I was like, I bet I know who wrote this. And I was right. It's Alan Goldhammer, who I've actually had on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. So that's super cool. He runs the True North Health Center in California, which is like a fasting clinic. He is very, you can probably tell by the title, they do a whole plant food vegan diet. So not something I personally would follow. I would be starving and all the things, but I do really like all the research they do on fasting and the things that they find. So the setup was they had 30 people enrolled and it actually was conducted a while ago, even though it was published in 2022, but it was October 2017 through November 2018. 30 people, they were aged 18 to 75 and they did a water only fast for five to 14 days. So this isn't like a daily intermittent fast. This is a longer fast. I would love to see this type of research on shorter fasting, but it's really interesting regardless.

And so basically the way it was set up was they did it this fast anywhere, like I said, between five to 14 days. And then they had a vegan whole foods diet without added, there was no added salt, no added oil, no added sugar. And then they did these tests where they actually had salty water and sugary water. And they had it at different levels of saltiness and sugariness. And then they had people taste it and they determined a few different things. They determined how sensitive they were to it. So basically at what level could they actually detect the level of sweetness and saltiness? And then they also checked their intensity perception. So basically given how much salt or sugar was in there, did the salt or sugar tastes saltier or less salty or did it taste sweeter or less sweet? So for both, For both the sweet and the salty taste, their sensitivity increased so they could detect the salt and they could detect the sugar earlier at a lower concentration than they could before fasting. And then for the sweet taste and the salty taste, it actually was two different things. So for the salt, they found that the salt tasted saltier, but for the sweet, it actually tasted less sweet at higher levels. And so things that we can extrapolate from this is that in general, it seems that fasting kind of recalibrates your taste buds so that you taste salt and you taste sweet, you're more in tune with it. So you can eat foods that, you know, because processed foods are so high in sugar and this allows you to eat natural whole foods and then actually like you become more aware of the salt and sugar in them.

Melanie Avalon
So it can help with just enjoying whole foods more than like processed foods. For the intensity level, because I did a lot of like thinking about this because it was opposite findings, but basically with the salt because you detected earlier and it feels more intense, that also can be a barrier to, you know, you're not going to seek out as much salty food because things will taste saltier, they'll just taste saltier. And then for the sweet, like I said, I've done a lot of thinking about this, but basically things that were sweet tasted less sweet at the same levels. So a positive benefit from this could be that like super sweet processed foods that would taste really sweet and give us that, you know, big dopamine hit actually wouldn't have that much of an effect because the sweet intensity level actually dropped down a little bit. So their conclusion was that this had a beneficial effect on our taste buds.

Doing a fast could kind of, you know, like reset your taste buds and help you enjoy whole foods more than processed foods. It's something that I intuitively, intuitively have noticed for me personally and that when I do fasting, and again, I'm not fasting for like five to 14 days, but I definitely, I feel like I taste food better. It doesn't become, I feel like once you've been like eating a lot, especially if you're eating higher salt or higher sugar, everything kind of like runs together. You just feel like less sensitive to it. You feel like you need more of it to get that dopamine hit. But after fasting, things just taste more, you just taste better. And I feel more in tune with them for me personally. So what are your thoughts, Barry?

Barry Conrad
This is super interesting to me and, and also not super surprising to me as well. And especially the, how things are heightened after fasting, obviously not fasting as long and under those conditions, but even it's, it's kind of an annoying thing for it's a very specific example, but I used to love like I was a fanatic about top deck, uh, Cadbury chocolate.

So it's like the top is like white chocolate. The bottom is milk chocolate. I was obsessed with it for so long. It was my favorite chocolate. And then the longer I fasted, like over a few years, this is maybe, maybe four years ago or so, I just didn't like it as much, which sucked. I'm like, I wanted to keep liking it just for the nostalgia, but my taste buds quote unquote changed. So I wonder if this has something to do with, you know what I'm saying? So just my taste for a change, like the sugariness, it was too much.

Melanie Avalon
to that point because I left out like one of the other things they looked at, which was the liking factor of it. And they did find afterwards that there was a decreased salty sweet food liking trend and a significant decrease in salty, fatty, sweet and fatty food liking at the follow-up visit.

So A, it's really cool that the effects lasted, but B, it's kind of what you're speaking to, which is that people didn't like, which not to make it sad, but they didn't like as much these foods, which before they would have really liked, like you just mentioned with the Cadbury. Because that would be like, I mean, because salty, fatty, sweet and fatty, that would be like sweet and fatty, a sweet and fatty food for sure. Yeah. So, but I feel like, I feel like if you were to keep eating the, that's a question, I guess. Do you think if you were to like keep eating that regularly, that you would start craving it more or wanting it more?

Barry Conrad
I think so because it speaks to, again, what you were saying how the more you have of ultra processed foods, for example, which is super sugary, super salty, you need more of it to hit that dopamine level, you know, to enjoy it because you're so used to it. It's amazing.

It speaks to the adaptability of just us as humans. The more you have something, the more you want it. And the less you have something, it's like, oh, it's almost like whiplash because it kind of raises the question, it's not just willpower that the body kind of actually changes how things taste. And also I wonder, do the people end up craving healthier foods after this experiment? And I mean, for like how long after this experiment or was it just for a temporary time period, you know, and even their weights, like the, you mentioned the five kilos, like was, do we know if that was mostly water weight or something more lasting? Do we know much about that? Do they keep it off?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I can answer one of the questions for sure. So I just checked and the follow-up visit was 30 days later, and they still had that experience. So it lasted at least a month of their tastes being adjusted. I guess we don't know what they were eating on their own after the month.

This links to another study that I have not read, but it does say that there's another study that has been done and has noticed, quote, it says, this is an agreement with previous data showing that salty and sweet taste recognition sensitivity increased after only 13 hours of water-only fasting. So we're definitely getting these effects, I think, from our even daily intermittent fasting.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I was going to ask, like, I wonder if it would happen with a shorter fast, like, a 24, like, maybe a couple, a couple of days or if it needs to be this full on water only experience for a while, where it could actually be shorter.

Melanie Avalon
Well, yeah, and especially if that other one was just 13 hours, and if we're doing, you know, like 20 hours or so, then we're probably like really, you know, getting our taste buds primed each day with fasting.

Barry Conrad
It's interesting. I mentioned a few years ago that when I was doing destiny, the director gave intermittent fasting ago. And one of the first things that she told me even after the first day was, Oh, my gosh, the food tastes better. After having a break, like your taste is enhanced.

And if someone can experience that being so new to it, then it makes total sense that doing it over the long term, your taste buds do adjust where you crave, you just crave different things.

Melanie Avalon
I remember because I have this memory. I think the last time I ate like a traditional cake situation, I know when it was. It was my birthday in 20, oh man, what year would that have been? Probably 2014 or 20, probably man, was it that long ago? Probably like 2014 or 2015 and I was doing fasting and my paleo and everything.

But we went to actually Fleming's Steakhouse and that's when I worked at Fleming's. I wasn't planning on having the chocolate lava cake, but I knew it was gluten-free and it was my birthday. I was like, you know what? This would be good for me to taste it because then as a server, I can give my actual accurate opinion on this dish. I just remember the sweetness of it was shocking to me. I was like, this is wild. You were saying something about it actually literally tasting different. I think it literally does taste different in your mind, in your perception. It tastes like a drug.

Barry Conrad
It does.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, actually, when I ate the muffins for Zoe, that was really sweet to me.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, how was that? Because I know that you're doing it for like, you're doing it for health reasons.

Was it still, did it still kind of feel weird or slash wrong or slash foreign that you were having a muffin, like a muffin, even though it was for Zoe?

Melanie Avalon
Were you listening to the show then? Do you remember Jen and I talking about it, leading up to it, our bet that we had?

Barry Conrad
What was the bet? I know you were talking about it, but yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, cause Jen would say all the time, like these muffins taste horrible. Like, you know, they're, they're so disgusting. I have to choke down these muffins.

And I was like, Jen, I was like, this is going to take, I was like, I have not had refined sugar and flour and I don't even know when. So this, I was like, this is going to taste amazing. And she was like, no, it's not, you're not going to like it. I was like, it's going to take, and literally Berry, I tasted that muffin and it tastes, it tasted like the most epic drug induced high of dopamine. It was amazing. It was euphoria. And then I actually did a poll in the Facebook group and I was pretty accurate. I asked people, I asked, I did all the different options of like, do you eat a whole foods based diet or do you eat processed foods and do you like the muffins or do you not like the muffins? And there was a really strong correlation between people who ate like processed foods and normally ate like sugar and stuff, didn't like the muffins, but people who ate like a whole foods type diet loved, like loved the muffins.

Barry Conrad
interesting. Do you think you'd ever do another experiment like that again?

Melanie Avalon
It was so hard to do, it was horrible. It was like the worst day of my life because I had this experience of, because the way that the setup works is you're fasting, you have the muffin and then you can't eat again for like four hours and you have to eat like another muffin. So I had to like have this one delicious muffin and then my blood sugar was like all over the place and I had to fast in the fed state for four hours after a highly processed sugar rich muffin. It was the worst four hours of my life and then I had to eat another muffin. It was so bad, I hated it.

That's torture. I know, it was not fun but you do learn a lot. You learn about how you process carbs or sugar, fat and you do like a stool test and yes. So shout out to Zoe, we actually have a link.

Barry Conrad
Well, I would do that if I didn't have to do the muffin thing because that actually sounds like hell.

Melanie Avalon
Could you do it? Literally, Barry, I was, I can't even describe how much I was dreading doing it. It's just for.

Barry Conrad
day though, right?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. It was worth it with the information

Barry Conrad
But if you, okay, so here's the question. So how many muffins do you have to have during the day?

So you have the two muffins and then after you do the second one, then you can eat normally again or no?

Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to remember. Yes, you can, but I'm trying to remember like I think you eat the second muffin and then you wait I don't think it's the same amount of time, but i'm not positive, but I did eat that night like my normal meal.

So

Barry Conrad
It's more like that just the initial yeah, that still doesn't sound great. It doesn't sound fun to do

Melanie Avalon
The information is really interesting, and I'll have to find the link. It's zoe.com, Z-O-E.com, and I should check on this.

You should be able to use the Code IF podcast for a discount, I think. The founder, Tim Spector, who has a lot of really incredible books and I've had him on the show, he's actually going to be at the, which will have just happened, the Eudaimonia conference. So I'm hoping I can maybe meet him in person.

Barry Conrad
He's great, I've seen, I follow him on Instagram, I think, and he's super interesting what he shares.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, he's I love his content. So yeah, any other thoughts on the study?

Barry Conrad
I wonder if there's a similar way to get these benefits for people who are trying to ease into fasting or if they should just, I mean, you did say 13 hours, this is not long.

Melanie Avalon
So I think a combination of, I think you're going to get these effects, these benefits with your daily intermittent fasting for sure. And then if you change your food choices to make sure that you're breaking your fast with like whole foods, I think that'll help train you to enjoy the whole foods more, you know, help with your taste perception. So I think the benefits really do extend to like a daily intermittent fasting type pattern.

Barry Conrad
I'd be really, I wish I could see a visual representation of chemically what's happening in our bodies that make it a taste buds, quote unquote change.

Melanie Avalon
like literally what's happening on our taste buds.

Barry Conrad
or in our brain just to kind of see like why this resetting happens and you know why it feels rewarding why it quote-unquote changes you know and when it changes at what point

Melanie Avalon
I would gather that it's like a few different things, but one thing I would gather is that like if you're like a hunter gatherer in the facet state, you really need food. So you really need to be sensitive to where it is, you know? So it makes sense that your senses become hypersensitive.

And then it makes sense that if you are totally makes sense that if you're like inundated with something, like the, well, actually, this makes this helps explain the sugar salt thing more. Like why it was slightly different findings for the intensity of it. So something like salt, you, oh, this totally makes sense. Something like salt, you don't need a ton of salt, but you do need salt. So you would become more sensitive to its location, like when it's even present. But then it would taste saltier because you don't need to like be eating all the salt. Like, you know, we don't go and eat like a block of salt. So it makes sense that you would be more sensitive to it, but that it would taste saltier once you do taste it.

Compared to sweet, it's the opposite message where we could be eating like a ton of like carbs and stuff, but once we're getting a ton of that, we wouldn't, our bodies wouldn't want to like keep eating that per se. So it makes sense that like, and it, that this sugar when it, when it's at a higher level actually doesn't taste as sweet because it's kind of like a dulling, like a numbing effect of, of having the sugar.

I went back and forth. I talked about chat with chat GPT about this article for like 30 minutes, because I was like, I don't understand why the salt and the sugar are the same for sensitivity, but, but different for intensity.

Barry Conrad
It is very, very interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yes, it was saying more the sugar it was about like, it's a good thing because like I said earlier that now things that are super sweet that would give you like a dopamine hit won't as much because they won't taste as sweet, which makes sense. But I also evolutionarily, it actually makes sense to like that, like that numbing and dulling effect.

Barry Conrad
I can't imagine eating intensely sugary things all day, and there are plenty of people who do do that because they're used to it, their bodies have become used to it.

Melanie Avalon
And now, like, I just am such a protein girl, like, I would be so starving.

Barry Conrad
I love protein so much.

Melanie Avalon
Protein is so good. Like the umami taste, I feel like there are like sugary people, salty people, umami people, and it might change throughout your life.

But you know, like some people really crave sweet, some people really crave salt. I crave umami.

Barry Conrad
That sounds like a t-shirt or like a slogan. I do also think it's not maha.

I remember we talked about the whole maha thing. It's not a maha thing. It's just proteins, just delicious. It's not a gimmick.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, how it's like politicized, like how in the world protein is politicized is beyond me. I think everything gets politicized now. Like you can't say anything without it becoming political.

Barry Conrad
That was an awesome find, by the way. It's super interesting and it was making me think about all the things that I don't like anymore or that I don't crave or that I want.

I wish I did crave, but I don't anymore. So should we jump into some listener questions, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, Wolf, yes. Let's do it.

Barry Conrad
So Nancy Nelson on Facebook asks, what is the current take on MCTC8 in coffee while fasting added to foods, etc? What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Do you use MCT oil ever?

Barry Conrad
I have dabbled with it, but I don't really ever use it now, no.

Melanie Avalon
I have used it more in the past, but basically for listeners. So it's interesting because people will say coconut oil is high in MCTs. Coconut oil is actually only a percent MCTs. If you want pure MCT oil, you have to get MCT oil. And what's magical about it is that it is a very ketogenic fat and it's processed, unlike long chain fatty acids, it's actually processed by the liver. So basically when you have MCT oil, it goes straight to your liver to get processed. So it provides quicker, faster energy and then it converts into ketones. So it does put you into a ketogenic state, but not because you're creating your own ketones from your body, rather you're creating ketones from this exogenous fat that you ate.

C8, so there's different versions, there's C8, there's C10, there's C12. So C12 is technically medium chain, but it's like right on the border of medium and long chain and it's lauric acid and it is not completely processed by the liver. Some of it is processed like a normal long chain fat. So in any case, C8, C10, Nancy was asking, what is the current take? Like honestly, Nancy, my thoughts haven't changed at all. And I've been talking about this for like a decade because there's not really anything in my opinion new to find, which is that basically, yes, it's a ketogenic oil. That doesn't mean you're going to burn your own body fat, you're going to be burning that fat. Yes, it's processed by the liver. Yes, it can give you energy. Yes, it can put you into a ketogenic state. Some people it may help with. So for example, some people add it to their coffee and things like that while fasting. So not a clean fast, but they have it while fasting and they find that that helps get them into this ketogenic state, kind of like strokes their body more used to making ketones and it might help with hunger. But just know that if you do that, you're going to be burning that, not your body fat.

You can also add it in the past, what I've done sometimes with like a low carb diet is I would only for added fats, I would only use MCT oil. I find that that really like makes my metabolism. I get really hot from it and I actually can find, I've actually found that it supports weight loss. Even to the extent that people will be like, oh, well, you're adding hundreds of calories of oil, even if it increases your metabolism, you added so many calories that it's going to cancel each other out, you have to experiment for yourself. I found in the past that it, the ongoing key to like metabolism stroking thermogenic effect of it did help with weight loss for me. It's definitely an easy switch if you're doing like a low carb diet and you're adding like olive oil or butter. If you switch that out for MCT oil, like the same amount of calories, you're probably going to lose weight because now you are increasing your metabolism, that fat actually can't be stored as body fat because it's processed by the liver, et cetera.

What I will say though is if you get it, definitely get it in a glass bottle. And oh, so the C8 version is even faster burning more ketogenic than the C10. So that's why I would get the C8 only, like she's asking about.

Melanie Avalon
I like, there's a brand I love, I actually use it every morning for oil pulling, which is different, but that's where you swish it around in your mouth. Have you ever done oil pulling Berry?

Barry Conrad
I actually have done that before. It's gross to do though. It feels like you're just like gargling around this oil.

Melanie Avalon
It's like a game changer for me. It doesn't.

I remember it was gross when I started, but I've been doing it for, you know, a decade every single morning. Really? It's a game changer for me for like oral health, like breath, like just an, an Ayurvedic medicine. They do it. They say it pulls toxins out. I love doing it. Basically you, you, you put some in your mouth, you swish it around for like 20 minutes and then you spit it out. If you integrate it into your daily habit. So like I do it while I'm taking a shower and things like that. It just becomes second nature.

Like it doesn't feel weird. It does. You have to get used to it and then make sure you don't spit it out. Flush it down the toilet. Don't, don't put it down your sinks or your shower because it will, it can clog.

Barry Conrad
with MCT oil.

Melanie Avalon
Coconut oil would clog. MCT oil shouldn't because it doesn't become a solid. I've done it with coconut oil. You're right. You know what? I've been like, I've been such in the habit of like my coconut oil days probably won't clog if anything, it might actually help. So disregard that.

The brand I love because I've tried quite a few. I like on Amazon, it's called Natural Force Organic Pure C8 MCT Oil. I will put a link to it in the show notes, but it's in a glass bottle. I really liked the quality of it and I've been using that for a long time.

So it's made from organic coconuts. Do you have thoughts on MCT oil? C8 oil?

Barry Conrad
I have tried it before. I don't personally use it right now.

But when I had tried, I did put in my coffee. I knew that at the time a lot of germ growers would say, well, I am fasting because I'm putting in the coffee and it actually helps to get me into the fasted state. So there was a thing going on. There was a bit of conversation about that at the time. I don't know if that's still as much of a thing, but what I did notice when I did have it was, you know, it gave me a nice smooth lift without feeling wired or spiking my hunger necessarily, which was helpful, but yeah, it wasn't a clean fast.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And I feel like to that point, like that people were saying that it gets them into the fastest state or whatever, it's not getting you into the fastest state. Like it's literally calories, but it could, if your body is not used to making ketones, like I was saying earlier, get your liver used to making ketones and then make it more likely that you'll make ketones from your own body fat. Because your metabolic processes in your cells have to, they adapt based on what you're doing and eating and your mitochondria. So that's something that could be happening.

And Dr. Stephen Gundry actually has a whole other theory on it, which is really interesting, but he thinks it's actually creating, like it's changing how the mitochondria work. And it's actually, no, I'm going to butcher this, but that it's basically make it, it actually makes the cells create more mitochondria and it makes the cells just like burn energy because they actually don't process it as their own fuel.

Barry Conrad
So do you still use it ever to cook with or not really?

Melanie Avalon
occasionally if I'm doing a low carb day, I will add it to that. I find it, speaking of umami, I find it really heightens the flavor of food.

So I find like if you add like the one I linked to from Amazon, and you like cook your chicken in it, like for me, it intensifies the flavor and it makes it taste really, really good.

Barry Conrad
Wow, more so because do you use traditional like, you know, extra version olive oil or anything like that? Or do you only cook in like a nonstick sort of pan or do you just grill meat? Like how do you normally, what do you normally cook meat in if you're a pan frying it or something like that?

Melanie Avalon
in the past, it really depends like where I'm at, but I have, and I do, I think olive oil has a ton of health benefits to it. So I do, I do like olive oil.

I don't like douse my food in olive oil, but I like it. I've used it in the past more. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I use, I use olive oil pretty much. Like I don't, I try to get the best quality olive oil I can find. I don't overthink it too much, but I don't use a ton. I just use enough to cook the meat and you know, not douse it or drench it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think people, because people can really go off the deep end with dousing things in.

Barry Conrad
oils. Bathe the meat in, you know, a pool of, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, my favorite olive oil is called Immortal Provisions, and I had them on the show. They used to have a regenerative ranch that was super cool, and I had them on the show for that, but they launched an olive oil company. It's called Immortal Provisions because the olive oil industry is really sketchy. So it tastes amazing.

It's really high polyphenol. It's cold pressed, low acidity, a single verified varietal. I love it. So you can get 20% off with the code MelanieAvalon. For that, go to MelanieAvalon.com slash Immortal, and they have a really cool vibe and everything.

Barry Conrad
Sounds awesome, I love that name too.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I do too. It kind of reminds me of, I don't know, it's like the like, I like like with branding of stuff, things that feel really like ethereal or, you know, incandescent, immortal, you know, things like that.

Any other thoughts or shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
let's do it. Let's have our proverbial breaking of our fast.

Melanie Avalon
All right, friends. So the purpose of this part of the show is because we, even though we love the fasting, we also love the feasting.

And that is such an important part of your intermittent fasting protocol. So each week we pick a restaurant to feature and talk about what we would order. So Barry is picking this week's restaurant. Barry, what did you find?

Barry Conrad
I have chosen an amazing restaurant this week. It's called La Pavilion, and it is in New York. And why it's special, it's got lush interior, meets skyscraper vibes, half the space is devoted to living plant walls, olive trees, natural light. It's basically described as a pavilion in the tower.

So I'm going to send you the link.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. The walls are plants.

Barry Conrad
Here we go, I'm sitting with you right now. 650 bottles of wine curated by a strong wine direction, supporting both by the glass and serious pores, which we love. The vibe is meant to be elevated, but not stuffy, like a green, serene, glassy situation where the city and nature meet, which I thought you'd like, Mel.

And at the La Pavillion, another thing that's different to other places I've chosen is the menu is actually sort of split into two sections called terre and mère, which you might already know it means land and sea. So it's their way of separating the dishes inspired by the earth and that inspired by the ocean. So it's really elegant nod to how the restaurant celebrates nature, what grows from the ground and what comes from the water. So let's check this out.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm looking at pictures online. Is all the plants real?

Barry Conrad
Actually, I imagine that it is, I imagine that it is real.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, this looks so cool. You know what this looks like, Barry? Tell me. It looks like my apartment.

Barry Conrad
You know what, that's also one of the reasons why I chose it because of that motif, you know, your, the photo that you sent me with all your plants growing up the wall and stuff. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I have a really quick story about that now, because when did I last send you the picture of my fairy garden situation?

Barry Conrad
This is a while ago. I was in Melbourne, I think still.

Melanie Avalon
Okay so I have since then planted, I planted four different varietals of plants and I actually don't remember what they are so I'm like waiting for them to bloom and see what flowers come out but they are taking over like it is literally like a forest now it is wild there's like all these different green things growing it's even taller than before I'll send you an updated picture.

Barry Conrad
Thank you very much.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's wild. It's literally when I googled this restaurant, one of the pictures that came up came up looks like, looks like my apartment.

Barry Conrad
And Mel, they have a regular, they have a dinner lunch sort of menu, but they also have a pre-theater menu. We won't use that.

I don't think we should go. We could, let's have a look at the pre-theater menu just for curiosity, just to see. I think this is awesome too, there's a pre-theater.

Melanie Avalon
That's the other thing though for me. I never want to actually eat before a show. I would fall asleep during the show. Is it under experiences?

Barry Conrad
First go to our menus.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, they have a garden table surrounded by olive trees.

Barry Conrad
This is very unusual sounding, especially for New York, so I'll have to check this out.

Melanie Avalon
It's really exciting and smart that you're picking New York restaurants because then you get to try them. Uh-huh. OK. Pre-theater menu.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like more, it's smaller and it's more of a short thing, I think, for people going to shows, but it's still pretty cool that they've got one. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's shorter than the normal menu, but it's still pretty cool that they have a little short pre theater menu situation for people wanting to.

Melanie Avalon
Get something before the show.

Barry Conrad
Yeah get something before after or in between in between acts.

Melanie Avalon
This actually reminds me of a question I'm dying to ask you. Have you seen the, like there's some, I don't know where all it was, but I know they exist.

I remember there's one in LA, like these restaurants where it's like unlimited food, but only between like a certain amount of time.

Barry Conrad
Like a buffet type thing?

Melanie Avalon
a buffet but I remember specifically there was a restaurant that I saw in LA where it was like if you come between like this hour and this hour I don't know if it was a buffet I think it was like you could just order whatever unlimited between that amount of time and I know there are some buffets where especially like in Vegas and stuff where it is like a time limit I used to be really excited by that idea like eat all the food but now like that would be so you could not pay me to go to something where I'm like on a time limit to like eat the food I would be so stressed

Barry Conrad
I wouldn't like it. I prefer just, it's more like leisurely the way it, because it's like a feast of like when we break our fast, we like to take a time, relax, unwind, eat, you know.

Melanie Avalon
that's one reason I love one meal a day in the evening is because there's technically no endpoint like it's just whenever I get done and I go to bed compared to when you eat during the day for me and I would have stuff after it's like oh you can only eat until this time

Barry Conrad
Totally agree with that

Melanie Avalon
but they have a lot of fish here.

Barry Conrad
So I'm going to the dinner menu, what do you, so to start, so listeners, if you go to the menu, they have the mare, which is the sea, things inspired from the ocean and the tare, which is, you know, all the meat and the stuff from the land, the vegetables. So it's pretty cool. Is anything catching your eye and the start section, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
I am loving this. Well, they do have oysters. Okay, so for the starter, oh my goodness.

Barry Conrad
I love the way it's presented, I like those photos as well, it just looks really cool, the way it's presented.

Melanie Avalon
It looks really nice. And this is reminding me of another, last time we were talking about seafood that I have not had, I realized I also have not had squid or octopus. Really? Uh-uh. Are they good?

Barry Conrad
It's really good, Melanie, like really, really, really, really, really good. It's quite an octopus, like really, really delicious.

Melanie Avalon
What does octopus taste like? I feel bad because they're so indelible.

Barry Conrad
No, it tastes good because you can have you can have it cold in like a salad type situation or you could have it Like hot so it's pretty versatile. It's a bit tougher.

It's not as easy to It's not as tender and like melt in your mouth, but it's it's really good. It's really really good

Melanie Avalon
Does it taste like anything else? I feel like it's its own, you know, like I don't know what it's related to. I don't actually think. Does it taste like squid? Does squid and octopus taste similar?

Barry Conrad
I mean, the same sort of consistency, it's probably the closest consistency, I think.

Melanie Avalon
But the taste, is it like anything else seafood-wise?

Barry Conrad
I really don't think so, it has its own, it's really its own thing.

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna have to try it. Okay, maybe here's where I try it. Well, maybe, so maybe, actually, I wonder how this is prepared. Let me Google this.

Oh, this is, okay. So when it's a la poncha, that means warmed up in oil and a griddle or iron skillet. So, okay, I am going, I feel like this is a restaurant where they're not gonna be so excited about me adjusting the presentation. But I would like to have, I'm gonna try the octopus, a la poncha. Oh, it comes with savoy, cabbage, black garlic, and carrizo. I can't speak this language, bass, something. If they can give it to me, like plain grilled with everything on the side, and I will taste it. And then also maybe the smoked trout, if they can give it to me, plain with everything on the side. It may be the pork situation dish, but I'm not really sure what that dish is.

Barry Conrad
I'm really happy that I'm stoked that you're choosing something so different like the octopus, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
I want to try it. This feels like the place to have it, especially since it's prepared, grilled, and not... It sounds like I could... This would be a good place to try it.

Barry Conrad
Okay, I'm going to go for the oysters. That's a no-brainer.

So I'm definitely going to do the oysters. And I'm also going to go for the smoked trout, shard froyd. It looks delicious. And then I'm also going to get from the terror section, just for something different, the glazed pig's trotter, which is the pied de porte.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's why I'm saying I don't know what it is exactly. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna, cause I've had trotters before, so I reckon. What is trotters?

It's kind of like, it's kind of like feet sort of thing. It's their feet? It's pig's feet? It's kind of like, well trotter, is that right? I think it is. Yes, it is. It's their foot or their feet, but it doesn't look like a foot. It's like, you know, it's a trotter. So it looks more like a hoof than a foot. It doesn't look gross like a foot, you know.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's funny about that is in the American South, like pig's feet is like a thing. Like, I mean, I haven't had it, but it's, it's like an approachable thing that people eat here, I think.

So it's funny to see it described as, you know, pig's trotter versus like pig's feet.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, pigs feet will just sound so pigs feet. Yeah, why not can't no

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can like buy it in a can. I'm pretty sure.

Wait, let me google pigs feet. I think it comes in. Yeah, so I just googled pigs feet and there's pickled pigs feet and that's what comes up under images. Pickled pigs feet, are you down?

Barry Conrad
No, I'm not going to do that, but I think what I am down for is, wow, if the main courses look at that photo, whatever that is there, it looks amazing, scrolling down. This place looks really good.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, look at him holding the two rotisserie chickens.

Barry Conrad
That's like a dream to me. I actually love rotisserie chickens.

Melanie Avalon
They are so good. Do you have a favorite place to get it from?

Whole Foods. So Whole Foods, let me sell you on this. Whole Foods makes an organic, like, I mean, you wouldn't want plain, but they make an organic plain or rotisserie chicken that's so good. And they have like seasoned versions, but yeah, you can get like an organic one that's really good.

Barry Conrad
I have to try it. What's catching you eye out of this selection? The mirror and the tear. I like how it's divided, so it's like split into...

Melanie Avalon
So it's taking me a little bit longer because it's kind of like in French, not really, but it's, it's like, it's not the titles are French.

Barry Conrad
I already know what I'm getting.

Melanie Avalon
What are you getting?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to get the Homard kumquat, which is butter poached main lobster, parsnip royal, kumquat coolies, spinach sauce, or pouvoir, I'm totally butchering that. I'm going to have that.

And then I'm also from the tare section, I'm going to have the, I'm going to have the roasted sesso chicken, which is the pullet trough, roasted sesso chicken, black truffle pith beer. I'm really butchering this. So sorry. And wilted Brussels sprouts, pomade puree, just, yeah, just looks great because that chicken, the photo of that rotisserie chickens making me want the chicken. So I'm going to have the chicken.

Melanie Avalon
that picture does look really amazing. Okay.

I think I am going to go the, I think I got a, I got a, a soul last time, but I might get one again. So I'm going to ask for like a hybrid version because they have two soul dishes. So I'm just going to ask if I can get a Dover soul, like plain with its plane and then maybe some like steam spinach on the side if they can do that. And then for the tear, I, I'm kind of feeling the, um, maybe the, the pork, the duo of Berkshire pork, roasted loin, confit belly, caramelized apple, fennel sauce, charcuterie, but I will get everything on the slide again.

Barry Conrad
Sounds delicious. And oh, man, I'm scrolling down to the dessert, watching him pour chocolate over something. Oh, man.

Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, do you want any of the sides? Oh, they have broccolini, so I actually might get broccolini as my side.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to get, yeah, that actually looks good, grilled broccolini as a side, and also some wild mushroom fricasse, I don't know what that is, but I love mushrooms, so I'm going to try those two sides.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. And now dessert. Oh, wow.

Barry Conrad
This looks all decadent, like it sounds all decadent, you know? I'm gonna get the chocolate-slash-cafe as flourless chocolate biscuit, coffee, cremo, Irish whiskey ice cream, that's happening!

I think that's what he's pouring on, is that, does it look like the flourless chocolate biscuit? It looks like that.

Melanie Avalon
Case point, chocolate onto.

Barry Conrad
some sort of biscuit, right? Yeah, must be that.

Melanie Avalon
I'm trying to see if it, it might, this menu is so hard to read, it might, yeah, I think so, probably.

Barry Conrad
I'll basically go to the rest of it and I'll go that photo, I want that.

Melanie Avalon
We want this photo, this picture, this picture, and go.

Barry Conrad
That one there. And also the milk chocolate cremo praline, that sounds great as well. Just basically all the chocolate stuff. Those two. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
So actually, if I were to get a dessert, which I'm instead I'm going to get a repeat of something from above that I already had probably, but I like the look of the ice cream that they have.

No, oh, it's cheese. Oh, they have a cheese plate.

Barry Conrad
We could have that for the table. You can watch me either because I know that you don't like it, right?

Melanie Avalon
It has a Sophia goat milk from Greenville, Indiana, a Tom de Fontier goat milk from the Loire Valley, France, which is my favorite valley for wine. Then there's a Jamban cow milk from Holland, a Camembert-Fermier cow milk from, oh my gosh, I'm butchering all this so bad, La Boisaré École, France, and then a Comte 18 month aged cow milk from Savoy, France.

Yeah, I love cheese. So maybe like we get that and you can let me know how they are. And I might, I might taste like a tiny bite of one maybe.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I feel like you're being more adventurous with this place. I mean, it looks so good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it just looks really nice.

Barry Conrad
The beverages aren't listed here, but they do say overseen by wine director and connoisseur Daniel Johns, the pavilion's wine program reflects Chef Daniel's commitment to seafood and vegetables. The 650 plus selections are predominantly French, with a generous contribution from the United States top producers and inspired entries from other vineyards of the world.

So I'm assured there's going to be a very 650 plus like selections. It's going to be something that we can both enjoy.

Melanie Avalon
We're going to be, wait, there is a beverage menu. You see it. Yeah. But really quickly to comment on this, yeah, we're going to be so good because it's a lot of French wine and also they have a core event system.

Have you used one of these before? No, I have one. Do you know what this is? No. Okay. Don't buy one because I'm making a note that you don't have one. Um, so it's, it's this like contraption thing where if you have a bottle of wine that you want to taste or like just have like a glass from it's more for like, if you want to like taste a wine and see if you want to open it or just, or it's like a really expensive wine and you don't want to have the whole bottle right now, but you want to have like some of it. It uses argon gas. You attach it to the top of your wine bottle. It puts this little, like, I don't know what it's called, like a little, like a really, it punctures the, the cork and then you pour out some wine and then it fills the space in the bottle with argon gas. So then you can just like keep tasting the wine without actually opening it. Oh, wow. That sounds awesome. It's really cool. So they'll use it at restaurants like this, because if they have really like, like this says rare and mature wines, but they don't want to have to open the whole bottle, they can let you have a glass from it without having to sacrifice the bottle. Oh, wow. Yeah. We love a core of N don't get one because.

Barry Conrad
That sounds awesome, I need to get one. It sounds like something that we need to get.

Melanie Avalon
don't get one don't get one until after christmas yeah there's a beverage menu oh wait oh no it's oh i lied you're right so if you click beverages it jumps to the beverage section which there's not a menu but it's

Barry Conrad
it says what I shared before and there's over 650 selections. So I'm sure there's going to be something we're going to enjoy.

Melanie Avalon
This like I feel so confident that we will be good here with the with the wine menu

Barry Conrad
Same and you're gonna look at the ambience and like the plants and everything and I feel like you'd like this place

Melanie Avalon
No, I love it. So, French, focus on seasonality, locally sourced ingredients, it looks like my fairy garden apartment. They have octopus for me to try. I am so down.

So, when are you gonna go? Are you gonna go soon?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll have to go soon and report back. I have to put this down for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, please let me know. Please do and take pictures of all the plants. So okie dokie.

Well friends, we hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com. You can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 450. Definitely check it out. We will put links to everything and you can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com slash stuff we like. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are ifodcast. I have Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And also I realize I should probably be saying this every time if you enjoy the show. It would mean the absolute world if you ever have a brief moment to write a brief review on Apple Podcasts. It helps so much more than most people realize. So thank you so so much in advance.

And yeah anything from you Barry before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for tuning in. We appreciate you all so much for doing that and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome! I will talk to you next week!

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week, Mel. Bye. Bye.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!