Episode 301: AMA Part 2, Celebrities & Movies, Calcium Supplements, Interview Guests, Dislikes, Travel, Eating Habits, Exotic Meats, Secrets, And More!

Intermittent Fasting


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Jan 23

Welcome to Episode 301 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Cynthia Thurlow, author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

NUTRISENSE: Get Your Own Personal Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) To See How Your Blood Sugar Responds 24/7 To Your Food, Fasting, And Exercise! The Nutrisense CGM Program Helps You Interpret The Data And Take Charge Of Your Metabolic Health! Get $30 Off A CGM Program At Nutrisense.Io/Ifpodcast With The Code IFPODCAST!

MANUKORA: Support Optimal Immune And Digestive Health With Manukora. Delicious, Raw, Sustainable, Traceable Manuka Honey From New Zealand. Manukora Superpower Honey Is High In Antioxidants, Prebiotics, And The Natural Antibacterial MGO Compound. Go To Manukora.Com/ifpodcast For A FREE Pack Of Honey Sticks With Your Order!

LMNT: For Fasting Or Low-Carb Diets Electrolytes Are Key For Relieving Hunger, Cramps, Headaches, Tiredness, And Dizziness. With No Sugar, Artificial Ingredients, Coloring, And Only 2 Grams Of Carbs Per Packet, Try LMNT For Complete And Total Hydration. For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 


1:10 - NUTRISENSE: Get $30 Off A CGM Program At Nutrisense.Io/Ifpodcast With The Code IFPODCAST

4:15 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow And Use The Code CLEANFORALL20 For 20% Off PLUS Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

12:25 - Listener Q&A: Theresa - Celebrity crush and your go-to movie?

16:45 - Listener Q&A: Danielle - If they were to make a movie about you, who would you want to play you or if you were to star in a movie who would you want to act with?

19:00 - Listener Q&A: Nicole - Name one celebrity or person of notoriety, living or dead, with whom you’d like to share a meal & conversation.

19:45 - MANUKORA: Go To manukora.com/ifpodcast For A FREE Pack Of Honey Sticks With Your Order!

23:30 - Listener Q&A: Brittany - Calcium. I would love to hear how you both feel about supplementing vs not.

27:10 - Listener Q&A: Elaine - Do you ever totally disagree with your interview guest? Are any disagreeable with you?

30:35 - Listener Q&A: Theresa - Most embarrassing or awkward moment during an interview

33:15 - Listener Q&A: Danielle - How many of the 50 states have you been to?

34:45 - Listener Q&A: Hollie - How do you cook your scallops and how many cucumbers and blueberries do you really eat in a day. Do you eat anything else other than the previous three mentioned?

35:00 - Listener Q&A: Mariah - Curious how you consume your ginger and turmeric

37:45 - Listener Q&A: Melissa Hello! I want to know what Cynthia Henry Thurlow eats (I know that Melanie Avalon eats scallops & cucumbers  ). I’m a 51 years old female with 50lbs to loose. My window is 3pm to 9pm. How does a picky eater get in enough protein? My main source of protein is chicken & eggs. 

42:20 - Listener Q&A: Theresa - Your “toxic trait” as my students would say (area you need to grow in or some bad habit you need to work on)

44:05 - Listener Q&A: Laura - What is something that we would be surprised to learn about you?

54:40 - LMNT: For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase! Learn All About Electrolytes In Episode 237 - Our Interview With Robb Wolf!

57:40 - Listener Q&A: Eileen - Thoughts on the information going around (originating from TikTok possibly) that alcohol stops fat burning for 36 hours?

1:01:10 - Listener Q&A: Becky - I heard you mention on one of your older podcasts, that you don’t produce enough acetylaldehyde dehydrogenase. I have the same issue, as do some of my kids. I was wondering if you also get a red face ( ie “Asian flush” ) when you drink? And have you found anything that helps, other than not drinking at all?

Remedies for a hangover-free 2018

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #171 - Dr. Nayan Patel

DRY FARM WINES: Natural, Organic, Low Alcohol, Low Sugar Wines, Paleo And Keto Friendly! Go To dryfarmwines.com/ifpodcast To Get A Bottle For A Penny!

1:04:20 - Listener Q&A: Theresa - most recent text: who is it to and what does it say 

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine, and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified health care provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 301 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Cynthia Thurlow, Nurse Practitioner and author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: A 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and cynthiathurlow.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends, we talk all the time on this show about the beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and especially how it can affect your blood sugar levels. How much do we talk about this? How diet affects them? How exercise affects them? How fasting affects them? How do you actually know what your blood sugar levels are? Besides when you go to the doctor and get a snapshot of that one moment in time, or give yourself a finger prick, which, again, is a snapshot of that one moment in time. What if you could know what your blood sugar was all the time? That would be revolutionary insight that could really help you meet your health and wellness goals. Guess what? You can do that now. I'm going to tell you how to save $30 off while doing it. We are obsessed with a company called NutriSense. They provide access to and interpretations of the data from the biosensors known as Continuous Glucose Monitors aka CGMs. Your blood sugar level can significantly impact how your body feels and functions. NutriSense lets you analyze in real time how your glucose levels respond to food, exercise, sleep, and stress. How does that work? Well, a CGM is a small device that tracks your glucose levels in real time. The application is easy and painless. I promise, promise, promise. Check out my Instagram. I have so many videos of putting them on so you can see what that process is like. It's actually really fun.

You can use the NutriSense app to scan your CGM, visualize data, log your meals, run experiments, and so much more. And you get expert dietitian guidance. Each subscription plan includes one-month free of dietitian support. One of my friends recently got a CGM and she was going on and on about how cool it was to talk one on one with a dietitian who could help her interpret her results. Your dietitian will help you interpret the data and provide suggestions based on your goals. Of course, if you're already super knowledgeable in this space, they will still be able to provide you more advanced tips and recommendations. Friends, seeing this data in real time is what makes it easy to identify what you're doing well and where there's room for improvement. Some benefits and outcomes that you can experience, weight loss, stable energy throughout the day, better sleep, understanding which foods are good for you, controlling your cravings, seeing how you're responding to fasting and so much more.

Each device lasts for 14 days and of course, lasting sustainable change takes time and that can be achieved with a longer-term subscription. We definitely encourage you to choose a six or twelve-month subscription which are cheaper per month and allows you to not only achieve your goals but also ensure that you stick to your healthy lifestyle for the long term. You can go to nutrisense.io/ifpodcast and use the coupon code, IFPODCAST to save $30 and get one month of free dietitian support. That's nutrisense.io/ifpodcast and use the code, IFPODCAST to save $30 and get one month of free dietitian support. Friends, you want to be in the world of CGMs? It is such a cool experience and you will learn so much. Definitely check it out and we'll put all this information in the show notes.

And one more thing before we jump in, are you fasting clean inside and out? When it comes to weight loss, we focus a lot on what and when we eat. It makes sense because these foods affect our hormones and how our bodies store and burn fat. But do you know what is possibly one of the most influential factors in weight gain? It's not your food and it's not fasting, it's actually our skincare and makeup. As it turns out, Europe has banned over a thousand compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup in the US due to their toxicity. These include endocrine disrupters, which mess with your hormones, carcinogens linked to cancer, and obesogens, which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight. Basically, when we're using conventional skincare and makeup, we are giving these obesogenic compounds direct access to our bloodstream.

And then in our bodies, studies have shown they do things like reduce our satiety hormones, increase our hunger hormones, make fat cells more likely to store fat, and more resistant to burning fat, and so much more. If you have stubborn fat, friends, your skincare, and makeup may be playing a role in that. Beyond weight gain and weight loss, these compounds have very detrimental effects on our health and they affect the health of our future generations. That's because ladies when we have babies, a huge percent of those toxic compounds go through the placenta into the newborn. It is so, so shocking and the effects last for years.

Conventional lipstick, for example, often tests high in lead and the half-life of lead is up to 30 years. That means when you put on some conventional lipstick, 30 years later maybe half of that lead has left your bones. On top of that, there is essentially no regulation of these products on the shelves. That's why it's up to us to choose brands that are changing this. The brand that is working the hardest to do this is Beautycounter. They were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, so you can truly feel good about what you put on. And friends, these products really, really work. They are incredible. They have counter time for anti-aging, counter match for normal skin, counter control for acne and oily prone, and counter start for sensitive. I use their Overnight Resurfacing Peel and vitamin C serum every single night of my life and their makeup is amazing. Check out my Instagram to see what it looks like. Tina Fey even wore all Beautycounter makeup when she hosted The Golden Globes. So, yes, it is high-definition camera ready. They have so many other products, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, products for babies, and so much more. You can shop with us at beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. Also, make sure to get on my clean beauty email list. That's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list. So, definitely check it out. You can join me in my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share their experiences, ask questions, give product reviews, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well. 

And lastly, if you're thinking of making clean beauty and safe skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely recommend becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. It is totally completely worth it. So, again to shop with us go to beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code, CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now, back to the show.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 301 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Cynthia Thurlow.

Cynthia Thurlow: Hi, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon: How are you today, Cynthia?

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm doing well. Still starving, off a little bit jet lag, but doing good. I'm just excited to decompress over the next two weeks. How about you?

Melanie Avalon: I'm doing well. We're recording this a little bit in advance, but when this comes out, it will be near the end of January, but I'm really excited about the New Year, 2023. I feel like there's a lot of exciting things and potential. This is an interesting random question before we jump in. I was talking with a friend, actually, with Jon Levy the other day, and I don't remember what brought this up, but we were talking about the concept of when you have projects that you're doing and how do you feel after completion. When you accomplish a goal or a project or something you've been doing, do you have a feeling of sadness or a feeling of, like, now what? Or a feeling of what next? Or what is that experience like for you? I don't really get that experience. When I complete something, I'm just really excited and ready for the next thing. I don't ever really feel like, "Oh, that's sad or what do I do now?" I'm always just excited to do the next thing. How about you? If you have a project or something?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I mean, I think about a lot of business travel I've had purposefully for different events. I'm always so grateful for the opportunities that for me, I'm always like, yeah, that was awesome. What's next? I'm happy and grateful, but I'm always looking forward and not looking behind, so I don't get disappointed even when things like, as an example, I did a business trip up to Chicago in November for an event with a colleague of mine, and the event wasn't at all what we expected it to be. I just said listen this just validates what we want. This just further provides clarity about what direction to take our businesses in. From my perspective, I'm always looking forward. I'm always viewing things from a very positive lens and being very grateful because I acknowledge that we have opportunities that not everyone else has. I would say that the glass is always half full.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, same. I also feel like I'm the same like I'm looking forward, not backward, but also things really last with me. I still feel really grateful for so many things that happened so long ago. I don't think they lose their allure. I was also reading a book last night because I'm just thinking about, like, a positive mindset and all of that. It's like Catch-22, but apparently, if you don't naturally have a positive mindset, you can rewire your brain to become more positive. The catch is that you have to want to do that. It's like if you're stuck in a negative mindset, I think it would be hard to-- if you're like a pessimist, that's what it was about. It was about optimists and pessimists, and could pessimists become an optimists? They can, but they have to want to. I don't know what that experience is like in their head. If they're naturally a pessimist, they might not want to become an optimist. I don't know.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I mean, I've got a couple entrepreneur friends or just people in my life that are like, the sky is always falling, they always view things from a pessimistic lens. It's hard for me to understand coming from a place of negativity when something really good has happened. I agree with you that it's very likely that they can go from being pessimist to being optimists, but it requires a lot of inner work. I think for many people, they're just not in a position where they can per se do that. It's something that they could certainly invest in over time to transition to a more heartfelt, grateful perspective as opposed to one that's always looking at the negatives. It's not to suggest all of us don't have a bad day or a bad mood or you're just having a crummy moment, but the optimist is always going to figure a way out. They're not going to stay in that kind of fixed mindset.

Melanie Avalon: So true, sort of relates. We are continuing our Ask Me Anything episode from episode 300, our celebratory episode because we got so many incredible, amazing questions and they're just fun, but they also relate to health and wellness. We're just going to keep on answering these until we get through all of the ones that we got. I'll start with one by popular request from Cynthia because she wanted to answer this and I do too. Actually, there's three and they're all related to a similar topic, so we can do all of them. First one, Theresa wants to know what is your celebrity crush and your go-to movie.

Cynthia Thurlow: [laughs] I have a thing for Charlie Hunnam. Do you know him?

Melanie Avalon: Who is that?

Cynthia Thurlow: Claim to fame as Sons of Anarchy? He's not even necessarily in that show like the greatest actor, but there's just something about him physically that I find so attractive. He was in the most recent rendition of King Arthur. He's British, he's blonde and he's hot, so I'll just leave that there. He's my get-out-of-jail card. Not that I'll ever meet him, but he's just a very attractive human being. I don't think I have a favorite movie. I think I have groups of movies that I've enjoyed throughout my lifetime. This probably makes me sound like-- I think I've always been more of a book person than a movie person. I have a cousin who went to film school at USC where Melanie went for undergrad. He'd be so disappointed to hear me say that.

I think I'm old school in terms of like 80s, a lot of the Steven Spielberg movies and George Lucas movies. I love retrospectively thinking about Indiana Jones movies. I mean things that my kids can watch. I don't have to worry about something obscure popping up that I then have to explain to them. I would say trilogies, things like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. I love, like, the Harry Potter series we've watched multiple times. We've read all the books, but things that I can really lean into and just enjoy and savor well-written characters. How about you?

Melanie Avalon: Celebrity crush is Johnny Depp.

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, how funny. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: I love Johnny Depp. I was very much invested in the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard Trial. It was like the most intense real-life TV show. Like, I was literally just watching the court cases, like day after day the court trial. Go-to movie, it's one that you mentioned, Lord of the Rings is my favorite. Do you have a go-to Christmas movie?

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, I love, "Why am I forgetting the name of it?" The one that has Hugh-- Love Actually. Love Actually is a favorite. What's the movie where I'm terrible with names Melanie, this is like a pathologic problem. I'm thinking of the couples that kind of switch places.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yes, The Holiday.

Cynthia Thurlow: Thank you. I would say those are like, happy kind of holiday movies that we watch every year. I love Home Alone because my youngest is kind of exactly like Macaulay Culkin was at that age, and he would be that child. I would say those are probably, like, the Heat Miser, Cold Miser. So, like the old animated.

Melanie Avalon: That's my favorite out of all the animated ones. I love that one.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. My husband was watching it the other night with our kids and texted me, and I was like, here I am in LA in my hotel room eating, like, room service, and my kids and my husband are home doing something that's holiday related. So, those are probably my favorites. How about you?

Melanie Avalon: I love the Heat Miser, Cold Miser ones. I think I've mentioned it on the show before, but Borrowed Hearts, it's like my favorite made-for-TV Christmas movie ever. I'm obsessed with it. It is the best. It has the main guy from, I think, Grey's Anatomy. It's like 1997, and I've been watching it for a long time. And then one other. Oh, I love The Holiday as well. I actually watched this past Christmas for the first time. I think I probably had seen parts of it when I was little, but they made the sequel to A Christmas Story, so I wanted to watch the original. It's kind of dark. I'm glad I didn't watch that growing up. I don't think that would have made me feel very good.

Cynthia Thurlow: There's an amazing rendition done in Ford's Theater every year. Last year we saw it was 2018 because then, of course, it was like 2019 and then the pandemic. But it's so well done. But I agree with you. It can be dark depending on the director and the way that it's written. I think the older I get, the less I like dark movies. I used to love being creeped out when I was little, I loved scary movies, and now I'm "Yeah, I don't really like that."

Melanie Avalon: It feels very adulty if that makes sense. Like, I was watching it and I was like, this doesn't make me feel happy and Christmasy. I'm glad I wasn't watching this growing up. So, the other quick celebrity-related ones, Danielle wants to know, if they were to make a movie about you, who would you want to play you? Or if you were to star in a movie, who would you want to act with?

Cynthia Thurlow: Okay, so, obviously, I would be the person advocating for someone to play me because I'm not a thespian. I would not be in a position to be acting as someone else. It's funny over the years, I've had different people tell me I look like different people. I've heard Jennifer Aniston. I've heard Scarlett Johansson, which I didn't really see, most recently, do you know Vera Farmiga?

Melanie Avalon: I don't think so.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, she's got a very unique look. But I was told at this dinner that I went to at John's house, this one was like, "Hey, you look like an older version of her." I was like, you realize she's in her 40s, right? She was like, oh, she is just an FYI. Don't tell women that are older that they look like an older version of someone. [laughs]

Melanie Avalon: Just don't, women and age just don't.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, just don't even go there. I'm a very confident, secure woman, but I was just like, "That's not a compliment, lady." Those would probably be the people I've heard I resemble, but I see aspects of each one of them. Like, I love Jennifer Aniston's hair. I have lips like Scarlett. Vera, I probably look more like than the other two. How about you? I know you would want to just play someone because you are a thespian.

Melanie Avalon: Well, yeah, so I would want to play myself for sure. That is not even a question. If I were to star in a movie with somebody, I'm obsessed with Blake Lively and Keira Knightley.

Cynthia Thurlow: She's so cute.

Melanie Avalon: Blake Lively is besties with Taylor Swift, so then maybe I could become friends with Taylor, too. It would just be great. It would be amazing. Those are the two actresses I will watch any movie they're in. I think I have girl crushes on them. I just like looking at them. I just think they're so beautiful.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. Blake, to me, just seems like a nice down-to-earth human being. Ryan Reynolds, who she's married to, he's so cute when he talks about her.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, I know. They seem very, like, in love. They seem very-- and they've been together for a long time now.

Cynthia Thurlow: Long time. This is her fourth pregnancy, so yeah, definitely a long time.

Melanie Avalon: There's usually Easter eggs in Taylor Swift's songs about the names of Blake's children, which is lovely. Which brings us to our next question. Easy answer for me, but Nicole wants to know, name one celebrity or person of notoriety, living or dead, with whom you'd like to share a meal and conversation. Taylor Swift. How about you?

Cynthia Thurlow: I thought about this. I gave this some thought, Nelson Mandela, because I don't know if I've ever told you this, but when I went to South Africa for the first time, he was still alive. We were supposed to go to Robben Island, which is where he was imprisoned. The weather was bad, so we couldn't actually go. It didn't look bad on our end while we were in Cape Town but were informed that it was not good weather. I felt such a connection to South Africa when I was there. Subsequent to that, I read his autobiography, and I thought, wow, I mean, this is someone that I'd love to meet. Of course, now he's deceased. That would not even be possible. That's who kind of popped up for me.

Melanie Avalon: Hi, friends, I'm about to tell you how to get free Manuka Honey. If you know what that means, then you know what that means. If you don't know what that means, I'm about to tell you what that means. Back in the darkest days of my digestive issues and chronic fatigue and all the things, I was researching anything and everything to try and get my health back. That's when I first came across the concept of Manuka Honey. I knew honey was supposed to have health benefits, but there was something special about Manuka Honey in particular. It is a special type of honey only found in the remote and magical forests of New Zealand. The bees actually feed on the highly active nectar of the Manuka tea tree, and they make super honey that is honestly unlike anything you have ever seen or tasted before. Manuka Honey is a super honey because of its unique antioxidant and prebiotic properties.

So, honey in general has those properties. Honey also has hydrogen peroxide activity, which can have a beneficial effect on your gut and health. But, Manuka Honey in particular has a different natural antibacterial compound called MGO that only comes from the nectar of this Manuka tea tree. They actually measure it. I think it's really funny. They call it nonperoxide activity. The nutrients in Manuka Honey can help support optimal immune and digestive health. I personally found that when I was using Manuka Honey, it had an incredible effect on my gut. I became really obsessed with finding the best of the best, because there is a lot of controversy out there about Manuka Honey, and it can be difficult to make sure that you're getting a certified, verified source that is actually the stuff that you want. That's why I was so, so thrilled when Manukora reached out to me.

They make a Manuka Honey and what I'm really excited about is they have all of the transparency that I'm looking for. When I did the onboarding call with the brand, I was so impressed with their story, their authenticity, their knowledge, and their mission with Manuka Honey. Their honey can be traced back to a single origin through a unique QR authenticity platform, I love that. The honey is free from environmental toxins, free of glyphosate residue, non-GMO, gluten-free. It's raw, and like I said, 100% traceable. They're also a certified B Corp and something super important to me. They really take care of their bees. The beekeepers actually manage the hive numbers to ensure that the bees have access to diverse pollen sources and plenty of nectar to feed on. To avoid any risk of overstocking the bees, they're never fed refined sugar. There's no excessive hive transportation. 

The hives don't need to be shifted around for pollination practices. They also help support local communities. Like I said, I've been a fan of Manuka Honey for so long, so it's really exciting to partner with this company. Plus, the honey tastes delicious. You can incorporate Manukora into your food choices, into your diet, or you can use it as a supplement, taking some of it daily to help support your immunity, your GI health, and so much more. Manukora's Super Honey is available in a range of easy-to-use formats, including jars, squeeze bottles, and 100% completely compostable packets. Friends, that is so hard to find, so you can eat it straight or add it to your favorite food or beverage. If you head to manukora.com/ifpodcast you'll automatically get a free pack of honey sticks with your order, that is a $15 value. That's M-A.N-U-K-O-R-A dot com slash ifpodcast to get a free pack of honey sticks with your order. Friends, it's called honey with superpowers for good reason, so get on it and try this delicious creamy caramel honey and you won't look back with Manukora. That's manukora.com/ifpodcast for free Manuka Honeysticks and we'll put all this information in the show notes.

We'll do something health-related. Now, Brittany wants to know, calcium. "I would love to hear how you both feel about supplementing versus not."

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm not a fan of supplementing. I don't think it's generally necessary. You get more calcium from green leafy vegetables than you do from dairy. That's a byproduct of the dairy industry. In cardiology, I just saw a lot of people that were over-supplementing with calcium and actually had plaquing in their arteries. Let me be clear. This does not mean this is going to happen to you. I'm just telling you in the context of working with cardiology patients, many of whom already had established disease. We started becoming a little bit more concerned about over-supplementation of calcium. If you're looking at calcium from the perspective of increasing tensile strength of your bones and bone health, lift weights, eat enough protein, get some good sleep, and if you need it, take HRT. That would be my little plug.

Melanie Avalon: I'm currently reading, we talked about this. Are you familiar with Morley Robbins or have you interviewed him or read his book?

Cynthia Thurlow: I have not.

Melanie Avalon: So, he wrote The Root Cause Protocol. He basically makes the case that the majority of our health issues are from not enough bioavailable copper, iron overload even if you're anemic, and this enzyme called ceruloplasmin, which nobody's talking about, it's kind of mind-blowing information in there, and he's very extreme with it. I'm very excited to interview him and ask him a lot of questions. I just finished reading the whole section on calcium, and he is not a fan. I will say that leading up to it, before reading that, I was very much on the fence about calcium supplementation. I think it's a very delicate balance and it's needed to be in the correct ratios with magnesium. On top of that, the studies are not so favorable. I haven't done a deep, deep dive overview, but I know there are a lot of studies. The studies are conflicting as far as calcium supplementation and does it have benefits? Is it neutral? Does it have negative effects? I have never felt comfortable supplementing it. He makes the case that unless it's in the correct ratios, which and that's more from whole foods, that he makes the case you're going to cause more harm than good, kind of like what you were saying.

He was pointing out the ratios. He doesn't like dairy, though, either, because he says the calcium-magnesium ratio is so skewed. Like, it's way more calcium than magnesium. Oh, magnesium, I should mention that's the other, the big big mineral for him that he thinks we're all very deficient in and need more of. It's really involved in iron regulation as well. So, stay tuned when I interview him. It's going to be mind-blowing.

Cynthia Thurlow: It sounds really interesting. That's one of the things I like about you is how open minded you are to entertain varying philosophies, perspectives, opinions on health and wellness-related topics.

Melanie Avalon: That's what I love about you as well. I think we're both very open minded. I never feel like with you, I don't ever feel like you immediately shut down anything. I think that's really, really important to be open to different perspectives and thoughts.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, we should all be lifelong learners. Unfortunately, not everyone is. There's some pretty significant cognitive dissonance that is not unique to medicine. I want to just put it out there and just I was taught from a young age and this was reinforced in my medical training to question a lot and be open minded.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I love that. And actually, that reminds me of two questions in our lineup, so I will ask both of them. The first one, Elaine, she wants to know, "Do you ever totally disagree with your interview guest and/or any of the guests disagreeable with you?"

Cynthia Thurlow: I've been really fortunate that, yes, I have had guests that I don't 100% align with. And I think that's okay. It usually means that my team gets an uptick in emails like, why did this person talk more about, only about plant based as being the best protein option? Or why did the guest talk about this? And that's always interesting to navigate. I've never had anyone openly disagreeable on the podcast. I think that I do a really good job of vetting people, I think that we're all aligned in terms of wanting to provide high-quality information and wanting to do it authentically and with integrity. I have never had someone become belligerent or argumentative, and that's so not aligned with my personality. I'm a recovering people pleaser. For me, I have to kind of navigate those boundaries. So for full disclosure, I've interviewed three people for the podcast and I have not put out their episodes and it's been for a variety of different reasons.

Occasionally, I will interview someone and realize after I've interviewed them that it's really not a good fit. It would not serve the purpose of the podcast. I would say that those individuals, although they're lovely human beings, I'm sure the message isn't aligned and it's so far out of alignment that it would have been problematic had I published it. How about you, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: So, in general, and kind of like what we're just talking about, I really do believe everybody I've brought on, I really do think there's truth in things they're saying. It doesn't mean that I think everything they're saying is true. I sometimes do disagree with them, but I do always think there's truth to be learned or something to be found there. Probably because using the phrase totally disagree, I think the closest I've come to that has been with people very far on either side of the spectrum. You mentioned it either plant based or on the flipside, carnivore. I've had some plant-based people where it was very much like, this is the way and animal products are awful for you and awful for the environment and I disagree with that.

And then on the flipside, I've had carnivore people where it was like, every plant is the devil and I disagree with that as well. So, that would probably be that. As far as any disagreeable with me in general, same experience as Cynthia. Everybody has been so kind, so wonderful. I've had one experience where I felt like the person didn't really want to be there. They had come in through a friend recommendation, which interestingly at the time it was one of my really good friends connected me to this person. And at the time I was like. "Oh, this is great," because it's a personal introduction. They're going to want to be here more because it was through a friend. Thinking back later, I was like, "Oh, that could go either way." It could be they're excited because it's a friend or it could be they're doing it as a favor for the friend. Maybe they didn't want to be there so much. I will say, stepping back the episode was very valuable, amazing information. I'm so honored to have had it. Very grateful for the interview. I just not sure that person exactly wanted to be there.

Which relates to the next question, which was from Theresa, which is, "What is the most embarrassing or awkward moment during an interview?"

Cynthia Thurlow: Probably one of those three non-published podcasts where it was this person in particular went off the rails and didn't realize that the language they were using was very offensive and would have been offensive to listeners. I actually had my team listen to the podcast to confirm that I was not losing my mind and they agreed with me. So, unfortunately, I can't share more than that. I would say that using language that is not appropriate in the context of pejorative statements, is that vague.

Melanie Avalon: It's vague, but it paints a picture.

Cynthia Thurlow: To protect people. [laughs] I think the one thing that I know we're very aligned on is that I will not publish an interview if it is not aligned with my mission. My mission is designed to inspire, educate, and empower women, and it was none of the above, so I will just leave it at that if an interview does not meet my standards, I will not publish it.

Melanie Avalon: I as will be very vague, but I had a guest on who, whenever I start off the show before recording, I ask the guest how much time they have for the episode. And so this guest told me that he had basically ample time, like no time limit. We were recording and early into the episode, he made a comment about time and like running out of time. But it was kind of, like, offhanded. I wasn't sure exactly what he was saying, so I just ignored it. And then a little bit later, we kept talking, and then he just interrupted me mid sentence and we edited it out, so, of course, you can't hear it, but he just interrupted me, and was like, I really have to go now or something. And I was like, "Oh, okay." The way it was presented was that I was basically taking up his time, which I would never want to do. That's why I ask in the very beginning, how much time do they have? I was mortified, I was so mortified.

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, but you didn't, I mean, Melanie, that's not a reflection of you. That's a reflection of him.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Cynthia Thurlow: I mean, if someone said if you were to say, Melanie, I have 40 minutes, you'd be like, cool, I can do 40 minutes. If they give you the green light that you're not on, like, a timetable, then the expectation would be is that you will finish when you finish.

Melanie Avalon: It wasn't far into the-- so it wasn't like an hour in. I think the first comment was, like, 20 minutes in or something, and then the final comment was, like, half an hour in. And I've never, so fun times.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, that's not fun.

Melanie Avalon: Here's a fun question from Danielle. "How many of the 50 States have you been to?"

Cynthia Thurlow: I counted, 35. I have been to a lot of places.

Melanie Avalon: If you went to all of them, where do you think would be the last one you would go to and why?

Cynthia Thurlow: Now, let me be clear. I was born in South Carolina, so I love the south. I think there are definitely states that aren't higher on the hierarchy. Maybe a better question is what was I surprised by? Was there a state that I was really surprised by? I don't want to sound like I'm pejorative about any one state over another, but I would say that Alaska, not because I don't want to go, but it's just the distance to get there in terms of the things we have to do to get there from the East Coast. So, Alaska. Definitely want to see Alaska. And I'm just innately curious. Like, I'd love to go to the Dakotas. I've never been there. I love Montana. That was a surprise. I loved Utah. Although I've not been to Idaho. I think now it's just strategically figuring out how to make my way to all the other states. I would say probably Alaska, but only because of the distance.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was thinking if you hadn't been to Alaska if that would be the one. I've only been to 16. It's mostly the one like the southern-related ones, northeast, and then traveling out to California. I should get on that.

Okay. Some eating and drinking-related questions. We got a lot of questions about what both of us eat. For mine, it was Hollie wanted to know "How do you cook your scallops and how many cucumbers and blueberries do you really eat in a day?" Do you eat anything else other than the previous three mentioned? And then, Mariah wanted to know, "Curious how you consume your ginger and turmeric." Okay, so this is funny. I'm always posting about my scallops, my cucumbers, and my blueberries, especially because I go to Costco. You guys following on Instagram, you will know this. I buy a lot of scallops and cucumbers and blueberries at one time and I post about it. Every time I post about it, I get inundated with DMs about how you cook these, so much to the point that I now have two things. I have a saved auto-reply. Do you use the saved auto-replies, Cynthia? Where you start typing it and then it fills in the rest.

Cynthia Thurlow: I need to, I don't.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, a game changer. [laughs] All I have to type in-- So, if I get a question about this, all I type in is SC for scallop. It fills out my whole answer, which the answer says something about, like, thank you so much. Please see the pinned highlight on my profile so that when people go to my profile, I have a pin post highlight that says how I cook my scallops because I get this question so much. To answer the question, and this will answer about the ginger and turmeric, I put these scallops in a Dutch and a Le Creuset. Do you have Le Creuset?

Cynthia Thurlow: I do.

Melanie Avalon: I love Le Creuset so much. So, a small Dutch oven-type situation. I put the scallops in there. I don't add any water or anything because when you cook it actually makes a water-soupy base, which sounds gross, but it's really good. I add to that, mushrooms, chives, and cilantro. When it's done cooking, I add to that ginger, turmeric, and lemon, and it is delicious. Do I eat anything else other than cucumbers, blueberries, and scallops? Yes. I love the cucumbers because it's very hydrating and it adds a lot of fiber and a lot of bulk, which I love. I love having massive amounts of fruit because that's my carb source, and I digest it well, and I do really well with blueberries. And I used to eat pineapple. The thing I switch around a lot is the meat. I find that being so simple like this, that I specifically crave different meats or types of fish besides the scallops every night.

I eat a ton of scallops, and then I eat whatever meat or fish I'm craving, which will be either chicken or steak or salmon, barramundi, tilapia. I adjust accordingly. Oh, and she wanted to know how many, cucumbers, I probably eat like 10 really really big English cucumbers and blueberries I eat like, I don't know, two and a half pounds, maybe.

The question for Cynthia. Melissa says "Hello, I want to know what Cynthia eats. I know that Melanie eats scallops and cucumbers. I'm a 51-year-old female with 50 pounds to lose. My window is 3 to 9 PM. Oh. And then she has another question. Before I do that, Cynthia, what do you eat?"

Cynthia Thurlow: A lot of meat and a lot of vegetables, steak, bison. We don't eat a lot of fish because my kids don't love fish, and fish is expensive, so my husband sometimes and I will just grill salmon steak. Actually, tonight we're having shrimp scampi as an example. Getting back to your original question, I think as a perimenopausal or menopausal female, based on research, we have to hit these protein thresholds. That's really important. I eat a lot of eggs. I occasionally eat chicken. It's not my favorite protein. I tend to like leaner meats as opposed to fatty meats. If you give me a filet versus a ribeye, I'm going to pick the filet. I learned over the summer through nutrigenomics testing that's actually what my body thrives on is lean meat, not fatty meat.

So, getting back to your original question, I think that on a lot of different levels, my methodology is always 40 to 50 g of protein in a meal and then non-starchy vegetables. It could be roasted cauliflower, it could be broccoli, could be asparagus, mushrooms, salad. I eat a lot of salad while I was traveling just because it allowed me to get in some vegetables. I'm not anti-carb, but I tend to hover, under 75 or under 50 g of carbs most days. On the days where I'm having higher carbohydrates, I may lean into blueberries, I may have just a green banana, which is actually what I had today when I was breaking my fast along with a protein shake. As I'm coming back from being in LA, it's just been a busy day and so it's always protein depending on whether or not I need added fats, I like salted macadamia nuts, I like avocado, I like coconut oil, I like avocado oil, I like butter, my tolerant ghee. I definitely try to mix up my proteins. I think that's important.

Your other question, which she included that, I'm 51 years old, I have 50 pounds to lose. My window is 3 to 9. How does a picky eater get in enough protein? If you look at the research, we have to eat more protein as perimenopausal and menopausal females especially as we're losing estrogen and your menstrual cycle is gone for 10 months. When you're diagnosed with or you're diagnosed, you're told that your menopausal, so 51 is the average age in the United States. I think you have to open up your window to get enough protein. Unless you can get grams in in that protein window and I find most women need a wider window than 5 or 6 hours. Now, Melanie is a really good example. She gets in a lot of protein in a fairly compressed feeding window, but that's probably not the average person. I would really lean into the protein piece. I would experiment with different types of protein. I actually like bison more than I like beef. During the pandemic, we got very creative with proteins. We tried ostrich, we've tried elk, we tried wild boar.

Melanie Avalon: Where do you get ostrich?

Cynthia Thurlow: There's a farm in the Midwest. It's called Blackwing. I have no affiliation with them, but you can definitely try some things there. We started with sausage because I was just like ostrich wasn't something that was super appealing to me, I can tell you. We've tried ostrich twice and it has not been a favorite protein, but, like, elk was good, wild boar was good.

Melanie Avalon: I love elk, ooh.

Cynthia Thurlow: Elk was really good. But I really like bison. I would encourage you to be saying your picky is being pejorative. You can change that, right? Understanding that protein is going to be very important for muscle-protein synthesis. It's going to be very important for satiety. It's going to be very important for maintaining or building muscle. As someone who has identified that you want to lose weight, protein is going to be your friend. You really need to lean into it. If you're sitting down for a meal, one egg is 6 g of protein. You need to eat probably at least four to really get enough of a protein boost and then probably be adding in something else as well. I just find that oftentimes I'm doing, like, a bison burger with two or three eggs and then my vegetables. I'm also currently obsessed with slaw. Shredded cabbage doing it different ways, like a clean coleslaw or like an Asian-inspired slaw. I don't know what it is. I'm going through a cabbage phase, which is both good and bad because I just can't keep enough of it in my house. Hopefully, that's helpful.

Melanie Avalon: It was very helpful. Awesome. I knew you would have that one covered. Okay, so here's something else, Teresa wants to know. "What is your toxic trait as my students would say, or basically an area you need to grow in or some bad habit you need to work on?"

Cynthia Thurlow: I don't think I have a toxic trait. I would say that my area of focus will always be patience because my brain works really fast, and I'm a very methodical thoughtful person. I would say I sometimes struggle with being patient with other people and sometimes being patient in traffic because I grew up in New Jersey, and some of that has kind of stayed in me, although I'm getting better now where I am. I would say that's probably an area I have to constantly work on is being patient. Being patient and being present. How about you, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think for mine, so I think the thing I've made a ton of improvement on is feeling guilty about everything. I literally will feel guilty about everything. I've worked with my therapist a lot on that. I think a lot of that has to do with how I was raised, like Bible Belt, Christian South, and just like a guilt complex. I think also, I know I'm very obsessive and intense and I think I've made a lot of progress in that as well as far as feeling the need for control over my life, I think just finding that balance of dealing with my own intensity because I can be intense.

Cynthia Thurlow: I think half the battle is just acknowledging I'm like, okay, I need to work on this.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, 100%. I definitely like looking in the mirror. Laura wants to know, "What is something that we would be surprised to learn about you?"

Cynthia Thurlow: Gosh. I think I'm pretty transparent. I would say that I think people make a lot of assumptions, and I say this because this is feedback, I've gotten over the years. People assume I grew up a certain way. People make assumptions that I've had it very easy in life, and I have not had a very easy life, but I've done a lot of internal work. I continue to do a lot of internal work. I try to be as authentic and real as possible. I think people would be surprised to know that I grew up in a pretty unhappy household and with parents that were not very happy people. I had to navigate becoming very resilient in order to excel and do well, given the fact that I wasn't really given the foundation to be able to be a healthy, well-adjusted adult. When I tell you I've been doing therapy since my 20s, I'm not kidding.

I'm a fervent believer in working on yourself, but I wouldn't be who I am if I had grown up in a different environment. I always say that I'm grateful for the experiences that I had because it's made me like the strong, resilient person that I am. It also means I have to constantly work on my own traumas that I've experienced. Again, I think that's why Gabor Mate's book and the book that Gabrielle-- Gabby Bernstein wrote this year were particularly impactful for me because we're constantly working on our stuff, and I think that's what people would be surprised. People assume I grew up very privileged. People assume I grew up very affluent, and I didn't. It made me that kind of scrappy individual that wasn't willing to let people tell me, no. Like, I was like, I'm going to figure this out. I've been able to navigate life pretty well, but with the support and love of good friends, specific family members, having lots of healthy boundaries, which I get better about every day.

Melanie Avalon: That's interesting. My family growing up, at least from my perspective, I'm just overwhelmingly grateful. It was very supportive and loving, and the one message we were always told was that we could do whatever we wanted. As far as career goes, we could do anything, we could achieve any goal, and our parents would support us in that. I'm just overwhelmingly grateful for that. I have three things. One, for the longest time I was terrified of phone calls up until college, like answering the phone. Have I told you this before?

Cynthia Thurlow: No.

Melanie Avalon: I left high school early, before senior year, and my mom was like, Melanie, you can't go to college if you can't answer the phone. I got major phone anxiety and making phone calls, like, "Oh, my goodness." In high school, we had to solicit ads for the newspaper, which required calling people. It was awful. The thing that cured me of it really quickly, I think I've shared this may be on the podcast before is my first internship was with Jerry Bruckheimer, who's one of the biggest producers ever. He does the Pirates of the Caribbean movies and so many things. They literally stuck me on the frontdesk as an intern and made me answer the phone for hours. It was answering the phone for like really, really important people and having this sheet of you had to connect them to the right office and you could not connect them to the wrong office. It was the most stressful experience of my life and that cured me of my phone fears. There's nothing worse than that as far as the phone goes.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, knowing you now, I can't even imagine you having phone fears.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I know. Yeah, especially now because now I'm like doing phone calls 24/7 with random people. I remember that when they set me on that, they weren't supposed to do that. I was an intern. But the assistant had to leave. She was like, can you just cover the desk? And like, here's the stuff. And I was like, what? Like, the HR woman came over and was like, why are you sitting here? I was like, I don't know. They just told me to answer the phones. I think also people think I'm an extrovert. I'm very much an introvert, very much. I'm not shy, but going out is very draining to me.

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, that's why being in LA and doing four podcasts and I mean, I got back to my hotel room on Friday and just told my husband. I was like, "I'm ordering room service. I'm packing my bag, and I'm just going to watch something on my Netflix because I don't want to talk to anybody." [chuckles] I'm just done as grateful as I was for that experience. I'm like a rubber band. The rubber band has been stretched out, so the rubber band now needs to decompress.

Melanie Avalon: I have a fear of robots, like big robots, like Transformers. I might have talked about this on the show as well. So, Transformers is really scary to me. The concept of-- if the end of the world or if the next political upheaval involves robot-type machines, what are they called, robots? I don't know. There are all these videos--

Cynthia Thurlow: AI.

Melanie Avalon: AI. Yeah. That is like, terrifying to me. Terrifying. Even the nice ones? Like, even if it was like a really big robot and it was a nice one, like Bumblebee and Transformers. Mm, Mm. No, no. I would have a panic attack. Do you have any crazy fears?

Cynthia Thurlow: Snakes? I'm an all-boy mom, so I had to get really comfortable with bugs. And we have a bearded dragon. We have two dogs. I have a very nature-loving 15-year-old and he has been that way his whole life. Snakes, I am absolutely positively terrified of snakes.

Melanie Avalon: Have you ever had a bad experience with a snake?

Cynthia Thurlow: No, I don't know what it is. It's one of those things where, as an example, when we're still living in Northern Virginia, right outside of our walk-out basement, was this nonpoisonous snake. Let me be clear, there are plenty of poisonous snakes in Virginia, but this was not one of them. I looked at it and I said to my husband, it's not going to move because it's clearly just eaten something. So, it was like digesting. My husband when he got home, I made him get rid of it to put it in the woods. I was like, I don't want it anywhere near the house. If I walked out the front door and saw that, I probably would have just been hysterical, which is not the way I normally am. I would say I have an unnatural fear of snakes. Beyond that, there's not a whole lot other than the normal fears that you get as a parent.

I have an ER trauma background from many years ago and I've seen a lot of horrific things that have happened. In the back of my mind, the things that I don't allow myself to process because I don't want them. Like, I can talk openly about snakes, but the fear of anything ever happening significant to my boys. That's a fear that I have. That is not what I'm concerned about. I'm not worried about that. The snake thing, we have a lot of copperheads where we are in Central Virginia. I have to remind my kids, if they see them, like, to just leave them alone. Because sometimes the baby copperheads are actually more poisonous because they have more concentrated venom. Even walking the dogs, we have to be conscientious of that in times when they bred and they have a baby, it's out and just kind of trying to explain to Liam, don't play with it, don't touch it, don't go near it, go away from it, don't mess with it.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, what's really interesting about that? I'm just thinking about this because when we say snakes, I know you're saying yours is a natural fear, but a lot of people are scared of snakes. If we say snakes, your first thought, at least for me, is, "Oh, yeah, obviously because they're scary. If you think about it, like, there're a lot of reptiles and why are only certain animals do they have this fear response? Like snakes, most people aren't scared of lizards, but we could just as easily live in a world where lizards are the scary thing.

Cynthia Thurlow: Right, well, and it's funny because Liam at-- I think he was second or third grade and it was the only thing he wanted for his birthday was a reptile. And, my husband and I had to talk about, like, said reptile options, and originally, he wanted a tortoise, and when I started reading about them, and first of all, they live forever, and then they tend to carry a lot of zoological diseases and so we kind of settled on the bearded dragon. And the bearded dragon is quiet. It's totally mellow. He doesn't handle it enough anymore that he can take it out and let it run around, thank God. I had friends mine that were like, I can't believe you let your kid get a reptile. I said, well, first of all, he made, like, a whole-- this won't surprise you, Melanie, but he made a whole presentation for why he needed this reptile.

Melanie Avalon: It's something I would do.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, exactly. I said he had such good arguments about it. We've had Kirby now for, gosh, like, six years. They do live a long time, but he doesn't bother anybody. He's in his cage, he gets fed, he's quiet, and he's not so big that he's scary. I think I would have to be honest and tell you that if I were in Florida and there were the bigger lizards that are there.

Melanie Avalon: The monitor lizards, they're like the size of alligators.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I mean, those are not pleasant. I'm drawing, like, a blank on what the bigger lizards are, crap, big lizard.

Melanie Avalon: The monitor ones are huge.

Cynthia Thurlow: It's like this name recalls sometimes, big lizard, there's actually something called the big lizard, great, iguana. If I were to see an iguana and it fell out of a tree, like, when they get cold, they fall out of the trees. I would probably lose my mind. The statistical likelihood of that ever happening is pretty low. When I saw them in Costa Rica, I just stayed away from them.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, wait wait. They fall out of trees?

Cynthia Thurlow: Because they get cold and then fall out of the trees? Yeah, I would lose my mind if one fell on me. That would be it. I would probably just lose my mind. But otherwise, I'm a really good boy mom. I got in the dirt with my kids. I played with my kids out in the dirt. I definitely didn't pull the girl card, but with a snake, I absolutely would.

Melanie Avalon: That's funny.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I would not be good with that.

Melanie Avalon: We did have an experience growing up because we had a basement where there was a snake behind the toilet, like a big one. I didn't actually see it, but the story was like my mom was like, we found one. This is when I was little, ever since then, I have a habit where when I sit at the toilet, I look behind it to see if there's a snake back there.

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, you talk about people in Asia. They'll have boa constrictors that come up through the toilet. I would lose my mind. Like, completely lose my mind.

Melanie Avalon: Like, in the toilet?

Cynthia Thurlow: In the toilet? Yep.

Melanie Avalon: Mm-mm.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I would be officially 'Cuckoo for cocoa puffs'.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness.

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Okay, here's a really good question from Eileen. What are your thoughts on the information going around originating from TikTok, possibly, that alcohol stops fat burning for 36 hours?

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, that's a good question, but I don't know how long alcohol impacts lipolysis, how long that is. We know that your body processes it as a toxin, so if you eat a massive bolus of food and drink a bunch of alcohol, you have the potentiality for stopping fat loss. I would have to do some reading. I don't know. Melanie, do you have specific research on that?

Melanie Avalon: I didn't research specifically how long alcohol stops fat burning. However, I can say it cannot be true that alcohol stops all fat burning for 36 hours because there are people, myself included, who have been having a nightly glass of wine for years and have lost weight during that time. So, logic says that's an incorrect statement.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, it's interesting because I'm looking at brown fat activation mitigates alcohol-induced liver steatosis. So it can't be that long. I mean, intellectually, I can't imagine.

Melanie Avalon: Once you process the alcohol, you're not burning the alcohol anymore. There's no way there's a lingering thing that stops you from burning fat, because, like I said, it would be impossible then to lose weight while drinking every night, which so many people do. That literally just says that cannot be a true statement.

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, the other thing is, I think it's predicated on other things. Are you 25 years old? Are you 50? We know that as women are getting older, they don't process alcohol as readily. It impacts the detoxification pathways. If you are someone who's insulin resistant and you're drinking a lot of alcohol, I mean, that could be a problem. I think it has to be taken in context. I just did a really quick Doctor Google search, and I didn't see anything that said that specifically. So, don't believe everything you see on TikTok. I think that applies to everything on social media because sometimes my team will state something and we're always very research based. People are like, "Where did that come from?" We will share journal articles with people we're like, this is based on this, and here's the research. But I have never read that. I do think it has to be taken in context, how old are you? Are you insulin resistant? Are you metabolically flexible? Those things can increase the likelihood that alcohol is going to be inflammatory.

Melanie Avalon: Definitely. I'm actually really curious. I listened to an interview on Dave Asprey with this probiotic. Have you heard of this? It's called ZBiotics. Have you heard of it?

Cynthia Thurlow: I have not.

Melanie Avalon: I want to reach out to them and learn more. It's this guy who apparently has controversy because it's a genetically modified probiotic. They engineered this probiotic that specifically breaks down acetaldehyde, which is the byproduct of alcohol metabolism, and it's the reason you don't feel well from alcohol. Apparently, this probiotic, like you take it before drinking, because he talks in the interview about how the large percent of acetaldehyde that's formed is in the gut, and so the bacteria breaks it down. It basically mitigates a lot of the negative effects of alcohol. What's interesting is, he says you still get all of the benefits, like the cognitive bit, like feeling tipsy, because people want to feel the feelings. I'm really interested by that, which actually relates to one other question.

Becky said, "Cynthia, I heard you mention on one of your older podcasts that you don't produce enough acetaldehyde dehydrogenase." That is the enzyme that actually breaks down acetaldehyde into acetic acid. You are not getting as many of the negative-- you need it to break down acetaldehyde, which is toxic. She says, "I have the same issue as do some of my kids. I was wondering if you also get a red face, i.e., the Asian flush, and it's called that because that happens a lot in Asian populations when you drink. Have you found anything that helps other than not drinking at all?"

Cynthia Thurlow: Good question. Did I get a red face? Not always. Not that kind of stereotypical red face. I think that the things that I've learned, and I've actually done a TV segment several years ago talking about how to avoid a hangover around New Year's and the things that I think are helpful and beneficial are taking things like NAC before and after drinking, as well as glutathione before bed. We can link that TV segment that I did a few years ago in the show notes. To me, the best way to avoid it is to just abstain. That's what I embrace now, but I acknowledge that people that want to drink want to be able to do it responsibly and not have any untoward effects. I think that I would probably suggest if you're choosing to drink NAC glutathione can be helpful, but also leaning into higher quality options.

We both are huge proponents of Dry Farm Wines. I think about the clear liquors like vodka, gin, also thinking about things like tequila as another option are going to be cleaner than having more traditional wine, having sugary drinks, leaning into bourbon and heavier alcohols that are very likely full of ingredients that could potentially exacerbate a hangover as well as exacerbate symptoms you may experience from drinking.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and that ties in whilst I was saying before that probiotic is specifically one that addresses that. What's interesting about glutathione because that's a really good example and I recently did a whole episode with Nayan Patel about his supplemental glutathione. What's interesting about that is this is what he said and sort of my experience as well it can really help with mitigating the effects of alcohol, but then it also can help you metabolize it faster and so you don't get as much of the tipsy effect that people are looking for.

It's interesting how finding that balance of how can you maximize if people are going in for a certain mental experience but also not have the health issues. I think that's where something like Dry Farm Wines, like Cynthia said. I'm obsessed with Dry Farm Wines. I gifted it to so many people this past Christmas. For listeners, if they would like to get a bottle for a penny, they can go to dryfarmwines.com/ifodcast, that's wine that's low sugar, low alcohol, and tested to be free of toxins and heavy metals, and mold. Yes, there's definitely a lot that you can do to have your drink and eat it too. So, one last one to end. "Teresa wants to know what is your most recent text, who is it to, and what does it say?" We cannot include if this was your most recent one. My most recent one was to you about the show, but before that.

Cynthia Thurlow: Mine was actually to my accountant and he was letting me know that he had sent me some information. I'm actually becoming an S Corp. For listeners, whether they're aware of what that is, but making some changes in my business heading into 2023. My real last official text was from my accountant who was reminding me that he had sent me an email, but otherwise, it would have been for Melanie because that was the next one.

Melanie Avalon: Congrats, by the way, I think I did it about a year ago. It feels very official.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, it feels very official and I think we had been teetering on making that decision. This is the year I jokingly say I've always been very fiscally conservative, but this is the year that we've got some more aggressive financial planning within the business and the CPA and I just said now is the time. It's going to be an S Corp, ways to ensure that we are maximizing income and filing taxes properly. I would say fiscal responsibility is number one, but ensuring that I'm very aware, very transparent of what is going to benefit the business the most.

Melanie Avalon: Is it your name? The S Corp?

Cynthia Thurlow: It will be, I think so, although it's interesting, some people like you to do DBA, like doing business as.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I had a DBA leading up to the S Corp. Although I stopped renewing it, so I think it probably is not active anymore.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I had another LLC that I had to pay to deactivate. It's one of those things, they're like, oh, you can't just pay the renewal. You have to pay the fee. Because you didn't renew it on time, you have to pay that too. And I was like, fine.

Melanie Avalon: Always something. There's so much to learn. I feel like I learned so much so fast and I didn't even-- I was working with an accountant as well, but there's just so much.

Cynthia Thurlow: That's why, the way I look at it, they earn their money by maximizing your income and making sure you're paying your taxes properly, but also working within the law to ensure that you are taking every opportunity to be more fiscally appropriate. How's that? 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, my last text was actually to a podcast guest. I've had Kirk Parsley on the show a ton, so this will be a plug. He's recording right now for, do you listen to? Well, probably not. It's not really our cup of tea, Jocko Podcast?

Cynthia Thurlow: Very aware of him, Mm-hmm.

Melanie Avalon: He is, I think, right now recording with him. I said, "How is hanging out with Jocko." 

Cynthia Thurlow: Did they ever work together?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, they're friends. I don't know if they work together, but they're friends.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. The SEAL community is pretty small.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, that makes sense. It's funny, I was talking to him about it beforehand because he's like the sleep doctor and that's his focus. We were brainstorming about should he just focus on sleep or other things. I'll be really curious to hear how that went.

Cynthia Thurlow: That sounds very exciting.

Melanie Avalon: I know. So, okie dokie. Well, this has been really fun. And this was part two. We're going to have to at least have a part three because there're still so many good questions.

Cynthia Thurlow: Don't worry for anyone that was asking. There were a lot of questions about hormones, bioidentical hormones, menopause, perimenopause, birth control, and perimenopause, etc., we will absolutely devote some time to those questions. 

Melanie Avalon: We'll get to some of those next time. I actually did I was telling Cynthia we got a lot of questions as well about fasting when we did this and they were all really good. I think I'm going to save them for when we get through the AMAs. Maybe we'll do an AMA IF Podcast episode. Sorry, like a fasting related one. But yeah, so, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you'd like to submit your own questions for the show. Like I said, we normally answer a lot of fasting-related questions. You can directly email questions@ifppodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode that will have links to everything that we talked about will be at ifpodcast.com/episode301. And then you can follow us on Instagram, we are @ifpodcast, I am @melanieavalon, Cynthia is @cynthia_thurlow_. I think that is all of the things. Okay. Anything from you, Cynthia, before we go?

Cynthia Thurlow: No, I love this. We'll have to episodically do these kinds of Q&As. I think it's exciting to talk about the things that listeners are interested in learning more about.

Melanie Avalon: I know I'm like really excited because I have the document in front of me and we got through probably half of it, so we probably got one or two more episodes left. It'll be fun. So, okie dokie. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week.

Cynthia Thurlow: Sounds good.

Melanie Avalon: Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

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