Welcome to Episode 309 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Cynthia Thurlow, author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging.
Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:
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1:10 - BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get A 22 oz bag of gluten-free chicken nuggets in every order for a year Plus $20 Off your first box!
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19:10 - LOMI: Get $50 Off Lomi At lomi.com/ifpodcast With The Code IFPODCAST!
22:15 - Listener Q&A: Amy - What are the benefits for GI detox and juicing products with a fasting schedule?
39:50 - Listener Q&A: Carla - Botox and autophagy
45:50 - ATHLETIC GREENS: Get A FREE 1 Year Supply Of Immune-Supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE Travel Packs With Your First Purchase At athleticgreens.com/ifpodcast
47:15 - Listener Q&A: janie - Teas
52:00 - Listener Q&A: Denise - Communion
56:50 - Listener Q&A: Courtney - What is the one skin care product you can't live without??
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 309 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I’m Melanie Avalon, biohacker and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. I’m here with my cohost, Cynthia Thurlow, Nurse Practitioner and author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: A 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and cynthiathurlow.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it’s that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Hi friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get free organic free-range, gluten-free chicken nuggets for a year and $20 off. That's right free organic free-range, gluten-free chicken nuggets for a year plus $20 off. So, we are a little bit obsessed with a company called ButcherBox. When you think high-quality meals, what do you think? For me, I think of the actual source ingredients. It's a little bit ironic because I do love eating out at restaurants, but I honestly think that I can get better high-quality meat and seafood right in my own home. That's because ButcherBox takes the guesswork out of finding high-quality meat and seafood and makes it so easy, so accessible, and so affordable. I love this company. They make 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef, free-range organic chicken, heritage-breed pork that is raised crate-free, and wild-caught seafood. Everything is humanely raised and there are no antibiotics or added hormones. You can get a variety of high-quality cuts that are hard to come by at the grocery store at an amazing value.
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One more thing before we jump in, are you fasting clean inside and out? So, when it comes to weight loss, we focus a lot on what and when we eat. It makes sense because these foods affect our hormones and how our bodies store and burn fat. But do you what is possibly one of the most influential factors in weight gain? It’s not your food and it’s not fasting. It’s actually our skincare and makeup. So, as it turns out, Europe has banned over a thousand compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup in the US due to their toxicity. These include endocrine disruptors, which mess with your hormones, carcinogens linked to cancer, and obesogens which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight. Basically, when we’re using conventional skincare and makeup, we are giving these obesogenic compounds direct access to our bloodstream.
And then in our bodies, studies have shown they do things like reduce our satiety hormones, increase our hunger hormones, make fat cells more likely to store fat, and more resistant to burning fat, and so much more. If you have stubborn fat, friends, your skincare, and makeup may be playing a role in that. Beyond weight gain and weight loss, these compounds have very detrimental effects on our health and they affect the health of our future generations. That’s because ladies when we have babies, a huge percent of those toxic compounds go through the placenta into the newborn. It is so, so shocking. And the effects last for years.
Conventional lipstick, for example, often tests high in lead and the half-life of lead is up to 30 years. That means when you put on some conventional lipstick 30 years later maybe half of that lead has left your bones. On top of that, there is essentially no regulation of these products on the shelves. That’s why it’s up to us to choose brands that are changing this. The brand that is working the hardest to do this is Beautycounter. They were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, so you can truly feel good about what you put on. And friends, these products really, really work. They are incredible. They have counter time for anti-aging, counter match for normal skin, counter control for acne and oily prone, and counter start for sensitive. I use their Overnight Resurfacing Peel and vitamin C serum every single night of my life. And their makeup is amazing. Check out my Instagram to see what it looks like. Tina Fey, even wore all Beautycounter makeup when she hosted The Golden Globes. So, yes, it is high-definition camera ready. They have so many other products, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, products for babies and so much more.
You can shop with us at beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. Also, make sure to get on my Clean Beauty email list. That’s at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list, so definitely check it out. You can join me in my Facebook group Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share their experiences, ask questions, give product reviews, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well.
And lastly, if you’re thinking of making Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely recommend becoming a Band of Beauty member. It’s sort of like the Amazon Prime for Clean Beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. It is totally, completely worth it. So, again, to shop with us, go to beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. And we’ll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.
Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 309 of the Intermittent Fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Cynthia Thurlow.
Cynthia Thurlow: Hey, Melanie. How are you?
Melanie Avalon: I'm good. You went-- it was a Low Carb Conference in Denver?
Cynthia Thurlow: It was and I have to say that the quality of the speakers and clinicians and researchers was just phenomenal. It was so nice to be at a big event and feel like everyone really brought really strong presentations and lecture skills. And obviously, I love being in Denver. My mom and her siblings grew up in Denver, so I spent most of my summers there, and I've forgotten about the altitudes. [laughs] For those who are coming from the East Coast or at sea level, I don't care how fit you are if you're sensitive to altitude like I am, boy, it was like the first 24 hours and then tracking Oura Ring data and trying not to obsess over the fact that I just could not stay hydrated. It's really always fascinating to me, but I think this was much more magnified because I was doing so much talking and socializing much more than I would normally do. It was a great experience. Always good to see so many of those people that I really appreciate and value in the space.
Melanie Avalon: And you met Rick Johnson?
Cynthia Thurlow: I did. He is even more delightful in person and he's so gracious, I think your listeners, my listeners know this certainly is one of the most downloaded podcasts for 2022. He sat in on my lecture and sat in-- we had a panel afterwards and Sean Baker was on that panel and some other very recognizable people. And he was so gracious, there are people asking questions that were better suited for him. And so, I would say, Dr. Rick, did I get that right? [laughs] He is such a lovely human being. He is as delightful as one could imagine to meet him in person. I'm sure he probably reached out to you as well and has a new paper that he wants to discuss. I was saying, I was like, you're an A++ list player anytime you want to come on the podcast. He's just a wonderful human being and so smart and just humble and gracious and lovely, and it's nice to have people like that in the space.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I love him so much. He emailed his new paper. It's with Dr. Perlmutter.
Cynthia Thurlow: He is with Perlmutter and I think Dale Bredesen, too.
Melanie Avalon: It's about the connection of, I think, fructose to Alzheimer's. I haven't read it yet. I just looked at the title, but I was like, of course, you could come back on. And then he was like, I'm going to Low Carb Denver and I'm going to see Cynthia. I just love that man.
Cynthia Thurlow: Well, and what's funny is I talked about something that I don't typically talk about, certainly not a whole lot on social media, certainly not at an event like that. For anyone out there who, when you do something new and you feel like you have a little bit of imposter syndrome, although I'm very comfortable speaking to an audience. There I am and I've got Rick Johnson in the audience who's really the fructose expert, and there I am talking about the obese insulin-sensitive patient and reviewing research. It was really, really interesting. But, yeah, it was a great experience as always. There were a lot of amazing people there.
There were Ben Azadi and Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and Ken Berry and Chris Palmer. I mean, just heavy hitters in that space that are doing such amazing work. And even a few people I had not yet met before, which was nice. I always enjoy meeting new people. There were individuals that traveled from outside the United States that were Australian physicians and Israeli physicians that were there that are using keto therapeutically with their patients. It was exciting to be there and obviously meet so many people that listen to this podcast and my podcast and follow us on social media. It's one of those things I love. I love meeting everyone and talking to everyone. It's a great experience.
Melanie Avalon: So fun. I love it. It's funny when I, on the few rare occasions I do travel, I just don't look at my Oura Ring because I don't want to know if i didn't--
Cynthia Thurlow: It was impressive. My readiness score was down by 20, 30 points. Just prior to going on this trip, I have a new functional medicine doc in my area who I think is probably one of the smartest physicians I've ever met in my entire life, which says a lot, because I think I've worked with a lot of really amazing clinicians, and he's putting pieces together about my background. It turns out I have mild dysautonomia. If any listeners are familiar with POTS, postural orthostatic hypotension, I have a very mild degree of that and I've always suspected, but I didn't have it significantly, and certainly, we saw a lot of very sick people that have that. So, never really had that on my radar, but it makes sense why I need electrolytes and water as much as I do.
He said I think you've figured that out for yourself and you've done that for a long time. I think if you didn't take such good care of your health, you probably would not be feeling quite so good. But I failed a bunch of tests, so very humbling. On top of knowing that about myself, I just kept saying, I can't stay hydrated enough. It's just with the elevation. I drank two liters of watermelony when I landed and I still was dehydrated, even with electrolytes, I was like doubling up on LMNT, like two packets of LMNT in everything of water I was drinking, and still couldn't get over that hump. It was very humbling. [laughs] Very humbling. Exceedingly humbling.
Melanie Avalon: Wow. When did you find that out? Just recently?
Cynthia Thurlow: Gosh, probably about a week and a half ago. The provider I'm working with has got me testing all sorts of things, and he was like, listen, I think you're hypermobile. You've got dysautonomia, you've got this gut health, these autoimmune things that are going on. He's kind of connecting all the pieces, which no one's ever done for me before. I feel like maybe finally we'll get some good answers. I think all of us deserve to have really good care and really good clinicians. But I feel like for me, personality wise, I'm really well matched with this individual.
He's actually been a guest on the podcast, ironically, the new city that we moved to. He happened to be here. It has worked out very serendipitously, but he knows how to handle me. I say that with love and reverence because there's generally nothing worse than another healthcare provider as your patient. But I just said, listen, I surrender. I'm not going to micromanage. I'm very directable, very coachable. Whatever you tell me to do, I'm going to do. I may have to think about it before I do it, but I'm going to do it.
Melanie Avalon: Wow. Well, I hope it's empowering that you learn how to come out better, knowing now that you have that, that's crazy.
Cynthia Thurlow: I think it's definitely one of those things when the provider becomes a patient, you really have to put your trust in someone. I feel very grateful that I'm in a position that I can have him as my healthcare practitioner and someone that I know is going to move heaven and hell if necessary to get the answers. So, we've got all sorts of gadgets. I'll have to put this on stories. We're testing our water, but it's testing water to a degree to which I've never seen this kind of testing before. There's a whole kit in my kitchen that I have to take care of after this call. Test our water, because he's not he's convinced that there's something unique to Richmond. And so, yeah, never a dull moment. So, the provider is now the patient.
Melanie Avalon: Keep us updated.
Cynthia Thurlow: [laughs] Well, it's a little crazy. Like, my husband was like, you're already a little intense and now it's like taking it up 100-fold. I was like, well, it's okay because it's me. I don't stress about it. I'm just like we're going to get information. It's all good.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. It's the way I am for sure. I have an announcement for listeners and hopefully, people were on the email list, so that they got this announcement. But we are doing, I'm going to try to extend it through today for people who are listening to our show today. A launch special where you can actually get 25% off grandfathered in for life. If you are enjoying serrapeptase and want to keep it in your life, now is the time.
If you currently have a subscription, you can switch over to this bottle option. We're going to be sending an email about that. And even if you're on the current subscription and you didn't get that amazing discount, when you switch over you will get it. Now is the time, but just as a brief refresher for people. Serrapeptase is a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm, and it breaks down proteins in your body, problematic proteins, not the good proteins that you want to keep.
It's not autophagy, but it's that concept that we talk about a lot. And so, it can help with inflammation. It will completely clear your sinuses. It can reduce cholesterol, break down fibroids. It's just anti-inflammatory, so many things. I'm obsessed with it. That's why I made it my first supplement. So, definitely consider getting that subscription. And again, the information about it was sent on the email list. So, that's at avalonx.us/emaillist. Also, you can get text updates if you text AvalonX to 877-861-8318. Just as a reminder, the reason I made this whole line is because I'm very suspicious about supplements and I wanted to create the highest quality, best of the best of everything. And that's honestly what this is.
And, oh, something really exciting. Cynthia, last week there was this report on a major news site. It was like a major report about berberine and it was very third-party objective, I was not involved in this at all. It was exciting because they were talking about the berberine market and listing all these brands, and then they had a section where they talked about up-and-coming berberine brands and they included me. I was so excited. It makes me feel like a real, I don't know, real product creator. Like, seeing this stuff getting picked up in third-party organic news is very, very exciting.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, that's wonderful. I think it's probably very affirming to know that that was included in that publication.
Melanie Avalon: It was really exciting. Lots of good things coming, but yeah. Anything else from you?
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, the thing that's really exciting my second supplement Inositol will be out in a couple of days and we'll have a whole episode. The next episode after this will be talking about the science behind it, why I chose to select this as the next supplement in my line. The Creatine has just done so well even with subscriptions. I've been really very grateful and humbled, and the feedback on it has been amazing and I know that the Inositol will be the same. For anyone that's listening that's not familiar with that, it is a supplement that has been really well researched, helpful for not just metabolic health, but also brain and cognition, sleep support, in particular, helping to induce sleep. If you wake up in the middle of the night, it helps people get back to sleep as well. Even Huberman Lab has been talking about Myo-Inositol. So, from my perspective, it's another supplement that a lot of clinicians and researchers are speaking up about in greater support of. It's just an easy way to support the body. I've been taking it for over a year, and I think it's had a lot of net benefits not only with helping monitor and help maintain healthier blood sugars, but also help with sleep support in a way that's really benign.
Melanie Avalon: Awesome, awesome. I just realized we didn't give links. So, my website is avalonx.us. And where can people get that and where can they get on the email list? And when is the exact launch date?
Cynthia Thurlow: Launch date is March 24th. You can go directly to my website. There'll be a little box on the main website, so it's www.cynthiathurlow.com and you'll be able to click on the link and you will get access to the Inositol. We're calling it Inositol just to keep it, it's a little wordy and its sometimes awkward to say it, but we'll provide explanations as to what form of Inositol is, it's the one that has all the benefits I referred to.
Melanie Avalon: Friends, I am so excited to tell you about one of my new favoritest things ever. Okay, so you guys know I eat a lot of cucumbers. I don't think that this is any secret. I find myself throwing away pounds, yes, pounds of cucumber peels every single night. I felt so awful just throwing it in the trash. It seemed like such a waste. I'd always wanted to try composting aka a sustainable approach to turning food waste into healthy dirt. But it seemed really intimidating and not very practical. So, it was on the to-do list for quite a while. You can imagine how thrilled I was when a company called Lomi by Pela reached out to me, wanting to sponsor the show. Normally I have to think about all the brands that reach out to me. I was an immediate yes. I was so excited. I got my Lomi device, it is incredible.
Lomi allows me to turn my food scraps into the dirt with the push of a button. Lomi is a countertop electric composter that turns scraps to dirt in under 4 hours. By comparison, if you were to compost naturally, it would probably take at the shortest around six to eight weeks, and maybe even up to a year. But nope with Lomi, I can literally do it in 4 hours. There is no smell when it runs and it is super quiet. I've been using Lomi for a few months now. It is substantially reducing my waste. I was taking out garbage bags all the time. It's probably cut that down by about 30% to 50%. In fact, I love it so much that I bought another Lomi for my parents for Christmas. Now with my Lomi, I throw out weightless garbage. That means that waste is not going to landfills and producing methane. Instead, I turn my waste into nutrient-rich dirt that you can actually use to feed your plants.
And Lomi is super cool. It has three different settings. It has the Eco-Express setting, which is low energy consumption, provides the fastest results, and is good for your food waste. It has the Lomi-Approved setting that's 5 to 8 hours. You can actually put in Lomi-Approved bioplastics and other compostable commercial goods and packaging that are Lomi Approved. And then there's the Grow Mode. That's 24 hours, it's low heat with a longer duration, and that actually preserves the microorganisms the most to help the soil and promote carbon storage in the soil. I am all about regenerative agriculture, so the fact that we can help put carbon back into the soil is so, so incredible.
Lomi is something I have instantly fallen in love with. If you guys are anything like me, I know you will as well turn your food waste into the dirt with the press of a button with Lomi, use the code IFPODCAST to save $50 at lomi.com/ifpodcast. That's lomi.com/ifpodcast with the promo code IFPODCAST to save $50. We'll put all this information in the show notes.
Well, we can jump into some questions for today. So, to start things off, this is left over from our AMA grab of questions that comes from Amy, and she wants to know "What are the benefits of GI Detox and juicing products with a fasting schedule." I know we've talked about this on the show before, but I don't think we have with you, Cynthia. So, I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on this.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I have differing opinions on some of these things. GI detox is a binder and it can bind to a lot of different things that you're exposed to. I take GI Detox with me when I travel in case I, God forbid, happened to get a little bit of food poisoning or get exposed to things I don't want. So, binders act as a catcher's mitt, so whether it's heavy metals or toxins that you're exposed to, I always like to remind people that GI Detox in particular is a branded supplement of a binder. Usually has apple pectin, some dichotomous clay or earth. You just want to make sure that if you're consuming the GI Detox, you're not taking it around other products, supplements, or medications because it will bind kind of like a catcher's mitt. It'll bind to everything that you are exposed to. So, usually, I'll say 30 to 60 minutes prior to a meal or 2 hours after.
If you're taking in a fasting window, likely not an issue, but just being conscientious about what you're taking around it. Juicing products, it's kind of a fun variation of fasting while still getting some nutrients. Now again, you're going to technically break a clean fast. I do have this as a variation in my book, people can utilize. But I'm talking about green juices. I'm not talking about sugary juices. I'm talking about cold-pressed juice that has not been pasteurized. Either making your own or purchasing from an organic juice company. I like The Weekly Juicery, that's usually who I recommend. I don't have an affiliate link. I do just like their products and they can ship within the continental United States. We're talking about green juices. Green juices are not going to have this adverse net effect on blood sugar. There're a couple of different ways to do it. Some people just use green juice to break their fast as an opportunity just to stay hydrated. Some individuals like to consume six juices throughout the day and just have a digestive rest day.
Again, this is another idea around fasting. It's not clean fasting because you're actually consuming some food. A lot of my patients and clients like this because it's just a hydration piece and then they're super well-hydrated throughout the day. I think that it's important just to know we're not talking about the pasteurized juices at your grocery store that have 30 grams of sugar per juice. This is really green juicing. It's mostly-- you know it's very herbaceous, I'll just put it that way. Whether it's kale or celery, I mean, these are very herbaceous juices that don't have-- they have little to no sugar in them. Again, Weekly Juicery is who I usually point people to because they ship throughout the United States, and it's organic, and it's cold pressed, and it's not heat pasteurized, so it doesn't denature the intrinsic enzymes of the vegetables or maybe they've got lemon. It's not going to denature the properties intrinsically of these items. You mentioned that you've answered this question before. What were you and Gin saying about these subjects in particular?
Melanie Avalon: It's been a while. I'm trying to remember Gin's opinion. Well, I remember my opinion, which is still pretty much the same. Although interesting quick sidenote, I feel so silly when I was reading this question, I didn't realize she was talking about a product there with GI Detox. I thought she was saying the benefits for GI detox, but obviously, it's a product because that doesn't really make sense in context. Juicing, I think it's very nuanced and a little bit complicated because I think people often have a black-and-white view of juicing, where it's like the most amazing thing and they may think they just drink all the fruit juices and it's going to save them, which does seem to happen for some people. But I think often, in that case, it's where people are coming off of a processed diet, have certain health conditions, and then they go into this state where they're really just giving their GI system a rest because they're basically just taking in instant energy.
And then it's high in vitamins and hydration and then it often ends up becoming calorie restriction because it's hard to drink that much juice and be in a calorie excess. Although you can do it, especially if you're drinking really sugary drinks. But basically, I feel like the mechanisms of why it works probably extend beyond, why some people think it works, which is that it's just this magical juice itself. When I think it might be a lot of factors involved when you get really-- I don't want to say restrictive, but there're a lot of factors that going in besides the actual juice. Like I just said, the rest of the GI system, the ease of processing that energy. Something else really interesting, and this might be getting a little bit on tangents, but another thing about juicing is that it is essentially fat free, so if you're doing a juice fast is what I'm talking about.
She's talking about juicing products. I guess she might be talking more about having juicing while still eating because having a fasting schedule. Like juice fast, that essentially is like a completely fat-free approach and people will do that for days, and people who are really overweight will do it for days and days. I know there's a documentary that made it famous where that guy did it for, like, weeks. Do you know what I'm talking about? It's like a really famous documentary that I feel like made this really popular. Do you remember it?
Cynthia Thurlow: I'm embarrassed to say, I don't know.
Melanie Avalon: He was fat, sick, and nearly dead. When did that come out? 2010, 60 days. It was an Australian guy, and he did it for 60 days. I feel like that made juicing pretty popular. And the especially things like medical medium and the celery juice and all of that. The interesting thing I want to say about that is, in general, I am very hesitant about hitting our bodies with massive loads of glucose and sugar. I do think in a juicing context, it's a little bit protective because you're literally just taking it in and burning it and there's no fat with it that would be exacerbating metabolic problems with taking in that high load of sugar. I'm not saying that it's fine to just take in lots of sugar. There have been studies where people have health benefits and even beneficial effects on blood sugar levels on extremely high-carb diets. For example, there's this really fun blog post by Denise Minger. Did you ever follow her?
Cynthia Thurlow: No.
Melanie Avalon: She wrote really, really epic long blog posts that were very, very solid. I don't know what she's doing now. She doesn't really blog anymore, but I used to just absorb her content. But she has a really good book called In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought (Part 1). I don't know if she ever did Part 2, because she tends to do like me where she would just post really epic long blog posts and then you wouldn't hear from her for a while. I'll put a link in the show notes, though. But she has a really good overview of research done in the 1930s by a guy named Walter Kempner. And he did research on tons of patients. It says 18,000 patients with kidney issues and diabetes, and he would treat them with essentially a fat-free diet and, like, reverse their conditions and I realize I am on a rabbit hole, but the point of this is, I think people can get benefits from, ironically, a high glucose load in the context of actually fat-free approach with something like juicing.
It is not fasting [laughs] in the sense of fasting like we talk about. You're not going to be in ketosis. You are taking in nutrients. You're taking in calories. I just see it as a different tool or something to try. I think some people can do really well with it and do it for however long they're doing it, and some people will have crazy blood sugar swings, and it just won't work for them. So, I think you need to know you.
And then another caveat. I'm glad you brought up the organic bit Cynthia and this is just me, I would not juice with conventional juice from anything. Yeah, that actually makes me really nervous because the amount of pesticides and glyphosate and things like that, you're just going to get that in a massive bolus if you're taking in the juice, especially because glyphosate is water soluble. So, you're basically just hitting yourself with a potentially high load of that. That actually does make me very nervous. I know that's like debated because some people will say-- because this actually for me extends to some produce in general. Some people will say it's better to have conventional produce than none at all. I actually don't know. I wish we had charts that would actually show the amount of pesticides and produce, conventional, because it might turn out that some conventional produce is fine and it might turn out that some has exuberantly high amounts, kind of like mercury and fish. That's the whole thing to think about. But I also like your idea, Cynthia, about some people opening their window with juicing products. I think that's great. I also agree with everything you said. Now that I know she's talking about that detox product. You nailed it with all of that.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, and it's interesting. I'll be completely transparent and say that we know that celery juice as an example can be anti-inflammatory always in the context of the individual, because I'm sensitive to oxalates, so I have to be careful how much I do of them. I think that has a lot to do with continued persistent healing of my gastrointestinal tract. But I think for a lot of people, I think they're pleasantly surprised at how it makes them just feel more hydrated. And I think it's very individual. Like, obviously weekly juicer is an option or if you have a local juicer, you can make your own. It's just a variation of fasting. I think for some people, like the novelty of it because it's just different. And so that's certainly reasonable, but I love that you brought up the contamination and why it's so important to be conscientious about organic options if they're available to you.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I know we've talked about this before, but I just really think it is more of an issue than a lot of people realize. I think it is a good analogy to mercury in fish because you don't see it. Can you imagine if we could actually see these toxins?
Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, God. I probably never leave my house. I was telling my-- I was on social media sharing what my go-to meals are when I'm traveling. It's usually like a naked burger or a steak. I had a naked burger two days in a row for lunch and then had steak for dinner, and I was completely happy. But I had dinner with Ben Azadi on the last night, there was a VIP dinner and we're sitting next to each other. Ben whips out this card that he's created. I know that our mutual listeners know Ben because he's been on our podcast and Ben is a really good friend of mine, and it's a card that says he has an allergy to seed oils. And so, it's really nicely done. I looked at Ben and I was like, "Ben, I can't worry about that tonight." He sent his meal back and out came a meal that had no seed oils and the meal looked completely different. And everyone at the table was like, "Well, that's great now." [laughs] It's challenging to navigate going out and knowing what you-- when you don't have full control over how your meal is prepared and how your food is prepared. Yeah, it led to some very interesting discussions. Of course, everyone at the table was like, that's brilliant that he carries that because his meal looked totally different than our meal did.
Melanie Avalon: Well, it's so funny. Two things, one, when he came on my show recently, which we haven't aired it yet, but he talked about that card, so it's exciting to hear it in person. What type of restaurant were you at?
Cynthia Thurlow: There was a VIP dinner at the Gaylord Rockies. This is this big massive hotel that has like 1500 rooms. I mean it looks like a mini city. And so, we were there having this, it was a keto, low-carb compliant meal, but it still had seed oils in it. And so everyone at the table had just started to eat and I was like I'm looking at this beautiful bison filet and asparagus and cauli rice, and it looked really good, but it definitely generated some interesting conversation for everyone.
Melanie Avalon: It's so funny. Over the weekend, my brother had his birthday dinner. Have you been to Chattanooga?
Cynthia Thurlow: I have not.
Melanie Avalon: Such a cute little city. There is a restaurant there, the chef has five James Beard Awards. It's called Opa! and it's crazy. He's this Greek guy and it literally feels like you're in a Greek village and he comes out and he just says, meat or no meat. You just say, meat or no meat. He just brings out the food, so there's no menu, and he just brings out wine from his local village and it's all inclusive, free flowing, and then at the end, you break plates, you throw and smash plates. It was an entire experience. But leading up to it, there was a lot of drama in my family because my family they like literally-- because it was my brother's fiancé planning it. They didn't want me to come because they thought I was going to not be able to eat or have a lot of requests. And I was like, "It's fine, guys, I can like adopt. It'll be okay." What's funny is I ended up going and I think everybody realized that they were making a big deal out of nothing because it really was okay. But it was the one time that I can remember that I wasn't able to make modifications because I didn't want to make-- I don't know.
They were really specific that they didn't want me to ask for modifications. It was really interesting, though, because I actually called the chef beforehand and was like, is that okay if I was like, "I really just eat, like, meat." And he's like, "Oh, of course." He's like, "That is my pleasure too." He's like, "I make you happy." So, it ended up being fine. But I will just say, stepping back from that, I'm going to be so grateful in the future to be able to make modifications because I just feel better.
I mean, the food was delicious and I don't know what type of oils it had if anything, and he does make it all fresh, but I just feel so much better when I do make those restaurant modifications. It's just worth it to me. But I do find it really interesting that people-- it was interesting to hear about that experience with Ben because a lot of people are probably on the same page. It can be hard to navigate the restaurant world and feel, like, accepted or that it's okay to make those requests.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I think for anyone listening, I just stick to the gluten, dairy when I'm out. I try very hard to otherwise just be open. Like, we don't eat out a lot for a multiplicity of reasons. All right, here's something to disclose to the listeners. My husband, when I went from being a clinician predominantly to an entrepreneur, he kind of stepped in. He's kind of little bit OCD about food, so he stepped in as like the head meal prep person. Yes, my husband does meal prep and it's awesome and I'm grateful for it. We divide and conquer that's kind of our mindset around household chores and things for the kids.
He's a really good cook and therefore I enjoy going out to dinner for more of a social experience. Nine times out of ten, I'd be happier just eating at home. And that's how all of us are. As I'm listening, I'm like, we so rarely eat out that when I go out, I try to make sure we're going to a locally sourced, they're using grass-fed meat and things like that, and wild-caught fish. Beyond that, I try to just acknowledge, like I always say, it's like 90/10. If I get a little bit of seed oils when I'm out and I'm unaware of it, I'm just going to leave it as I'm unaware of it because otherwise I would not enjoy [laughs] my meal. Although I respect people that are even more conscientious than I am about when they go out to dinner. I'll just put that in there just to say that for full transparency, we prefer eating in.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, well, I'm similar to you in that. Well, I do love the food aspect, but I really just love the social aspect of everything. In general, I think we talked about this on a recent episode as well, that situation aside where there literally was no menu and my family didn't want me to make additional requests, even though, interestingly, I will say the chef was so nice. He was all about it. He kept coming and checking and being like, "Are you all happy?" I think it actually would have been fine if I had made additional requests, but that's okay. I think once you do find your system of ordering, however, makes you happy. So, like with you, Cynthia, the gluten free, dairy free, and then kind of ending it there, like I think just finding what works for you is the best way to go. It sounds like Ben's card thing is pretty cool. I should get that.
Cynthia Thurlow: It's hilarious. I mean, I was like, you're brilliant. I will give you all of the props. I put into my stories, and people were like, how can I get that? [laughs] I was like, "If you want exactly this? This is where you go to." But I think it's brilliant.
Melanie Avalon: I love it. I love it, love it. Awesome. All right. Shall we go on to our next question?
Cynthia Thurlow: Yes. This is from Carla. Subject is Botox and autophagy. "I've gotten Botox in my forehead for several years. I'm thinking about all the things I want autophagy to do in my body. It begs the question, does autophagy work to clean up the Botox and therefore not work on other more important things? I've started to have this mindset of not wanting to waste my autophagy processes on things I can control. I suspect I am insulin resistant among a few other things and I think it would be wise to stop Botox for a while until I see improvement in those areas. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks, ladies."
Melanie Avalon: All right, Carla, so this is a great question. So, for listeners who are not-- I mean, I think a lot of listeners are familiar with Botox, but I think a lot don't actually might not realize what it is, because I didn't. It is the botulinum toxin and it paralyzes muscles. It's preventative. Basically, if you paralyze your muscles, then you're not creating the contractions that create the wrinkles to form in your face in the first place. So, it's like freezing your face essentially. You can also use it for different health conditions. I've started getting it in my jaw, actually, for TMJ, so I'm very excited to see how that goes. It was something that I thought a lot about. By the way, if you live in Atlanta, I go to Slim Studio. I love them there. If you go, tell them I sent you. But I did a lot of research on it because it is a neurotoxin which sounds concerning.
I think in the end, it's mostly a cost-benefit thing of-- are the benefits that you get from that worth whatever detrimental side effects there might be to having that toxin in your body? Most people don't experience any cognitive side effects like they don't realize having side effects from the actual neurotoxin in the muscle. Granted we don't have super-duper long-term studies on it, but I just think you have to look at the return on investment for that. As far as Carla's specific question about autophagy cleaning up Botox, well, stepping back, on the one hand, I think it's great that things like autophagy and these cellular processes are becoming much more conventional or understood especially in our world.
Moving beyond that, they are so much more complicated than I mean, definitely than I understand. I think a lot of us understand. So, I think we tend to see autophagy and we make these assumptions about what it works and what it does when it's probably a lot more complicated than that. What I mean by that is I don't know that you have this limited amount of autophagy and that it's cleaning up Botox. I just don't know that that is what is happening, [laughs] if that makes sense. I wouldn't even look-- and this is just me, but I wouldn't even look at it in that framing. I would look on it more on the toxin side of things, because Carla you talk about having these different health things that you're working on and wanting to reduce that burden and I think that's a great framework.
If you're working on health things, you want to do whatever you can to reduce your toxic burden, so that would be all encompassing. Your skincare and makeup products. We talk about Beautycounter all the time on here, your food, your lifestyle, and then when it comes to something like the Botox, so injecting that neurotoxin into your muscle, I think you really have to look at a big picture, the potential side effects of that small amount of neurotoxin in your muscle that your body will metabolize at some point compared to the beneficial effects that you get from it. It might be that the beneficial effects, like the happiness that you get from Botox, I mean, you can make the case that that provides so much more-- because mental, emotional health is really, really important in our health as well. If it's making you happy, then that might outweigh the small amount of neurotoxin that you're injecting.
I think you've just got to think about it, look at the cost benefits and see what matters to you. But I wouldn't necessarily look at it and like I have this X amount of autophagy that is cleaning up this amount of stuff, because I don't even know if autophagy is involved in Botox processing. I Googled it and there was definitely not studies on it. [laughs] So Cynthia, what are your thoughts?
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I have to agree. I don't think the minimal amount of Botox that's being injected into those muscles to paralyze them is per se taking away from the big picture of autophagy that goes on in a fasted state. That upregulation of the waste and recycling process. I think that certainly, Carla is kind of alluding to some other things that she wants to work on. I would worry less about the Botox and I would focus more on reducing her insulin resistance, getting tested, getting information, and finding out how all the variables I mean, I literally just talked about this at Low Carb Denver, the insulin-sensitive obese or overweight patients because there're assumptions made. There're certainly lots of things that can be done. Obviously, fasting is one of them. But I would turn your concerns towards the foods that you're eating and your sleep quality and your stress management and are you strength training and are you working through your personal care products and your food and your environment, estrogen-mimicking chemicals and how there's this whole toxic theory of obesity and how that can impact insulin resistance? I would focus more on those areas is what I'm essentially saying. I think that there's no research that I was able to find. I concur with you Melanie and certainly, I think big picture, there are other things to focus on.
Melanie Avalon: That's the way to frame it, big picture.
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Melanie Avalon: So, we have a question from Jamie. The subject is teas and Jamie says "Hello. I'm still unclear about which teas are clean. I was hoping you could clarify for me, please. I drink herbals, chamomile at nighttime before bed consisting of oat flower, licorice root, lavender flower, lime flower, tulsi leaf and valerian root and red bush without milk with natural oil of bergamot to give it an Earl Gray flavor. Are these considered clean from a fasting perspective? Many thanks and best wishes," Jamie.
Cynthia Thurlow: Well, Jamie, these are the types of questions that are so common for us to receive. I think it's all about keeping things pretty simple if we're looking at clean fasting. When I start seeing all these different flower essences and I know nothing about oat flower, obviously, licorice root, I don't know how that's prepared. I would say, when in doubt, leave it out and just enjoy this in your feeding window, you mentioned the Rooibos tea and then the natural oil of bergamot. I just kind of think that might be something that's processed because it says to give it an Earl Gray flavor.
Again, when in doubt, leave it out and enjoy in your feeding window. I think about really simple things like ginger tea, green tea, black tea, really keeping it simple, and it's designed to be bitter. When you start introducing all these other flavor profiles, I start thinking potentially depending on how it was processed and we're really getting nuanced here, and I don't want anyone to stress about this, but the more that's done to the tea leaves themselves to make them palatable, I just think that deals with more processing.
I don't know if anyone knows this, but actually most teas are also highly contaminated. This is something where it's worth it to spend a little bit more money and get an organic version. I like Pique tea. I like their green tea a lot. I don't prefer black tea it's a little scooch too bitter for me. But when I'm really trying to ensure I'm getting those beneficial polyphenols, I try to be conscientious about sourcing. Just kind of as an aside, don't stress about this, but the more that's done to the product to get it on the market, the more processing or exposure to oils, etc., the more I get concerned that there might be things in there that we want to avoid in a fasted state.
Melanie Avalon: Is Pique tea, that's Jason Fung's company, right?
Cynthia Thurlow: Pique. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: Pique. Okay. Did he do anything special for it to make it?
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, it's like carefully sourced and it's super clean. I believe it's organic. Yeah, it's sustainably sourced USDA organic certified and triple toxin screened. They're sourced in the highest quality family farms from all over the world. Yeah, saying they are amongst the world's greatest and most protected sources of biodiversity.
Melanie Avalon: Nice. Yeah, because I'm glad you brought up that aspect because going back to what we're talking about earlier with the juices, the toxins and teas can really be a problem. I know even, like, heavy metal contamination in teas is an issue a lot.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yes. Oh, absolutely. It's something that I think a lot of people just don't realize. It's like I don't want people to then be paranoid, but yes.
Melanie Avalon: Yes. I thought that was a very comprehensive answer.
Cynthia Thurlow: But I think I understand because tea can be super delicious and some of these attributes, I'm sure make this wonderful synergistic flavor profile. But when it starts getting complicated, I'm just like, listen, just have the bitter tea.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I remember when I was-- and this was probably when I was doing fasting and low carb, but I wasn't paleo yet. I would drink, like, all the teas and there was this Sugar Cookie Sleigh Ride tea that Celestial-- Oh, I would drink all the Celestial Seasonings Teas.
Cynthia Thurlow: They're all super sugary. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon: Or they're like very flavory. I remember that Sugar Cookie one was so delicious, but then I remember it actually said that it was not gluten free and I was like, whoa.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. It's interesting because I was just in London and we did this whole high tea service, which was so much fun. My cousin was like, dare I ask?-- [laughs] She was like, dare I ask? I was like, "Oh God," I mean, we're in London. They should have high-quality tea, right?
Melanie Avalon: Was it? No.
Cynthia Thurlow: They were like, "Well, you know we sourced from here. Yes, it should be, but we don't with 100% certainty." And I was just like, microplastics and all sorts of things that have the potential for being in our teas, which no one wants that.
Melanie Avalon: Yup. Okie dokie. Shall we go on to our next question?
Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. This is from Denise. Subject is communion. "Loved your book and everything it has taught me to totally change my life and lose 44 pounds so far and still going. Here's my question. I had been away from church since I started intermittent fasting mainly due to work, but have recently gone back and stopped working on Sundays. As soon as I put the host in my mouth, it dawned on me that I just ended my fast for the day several hours too early. I love God, but is there anything I can do next Sunday so this doesn't happen again? I like the fasting approach I'm using, so I'd rather not change it. I was thinking maybe I could take the host home until it's time to have lunch, but I'm not sure if that's acceptable either. I have a feeling you've come across this question before and I'm curious to see your answer. Doing a search didn't specify anything to do with intermittent fasting and communion only religious fasting. I'll appreciate any insight you might have. Have a lovely day," Denise.
Melanie Avalon: All right, Denise. Thank you so much for your question. This also is one we've answered on the show, but it was a while ago. And so, I am excited to hear Cynthia's answer. For my answer when it comes to something-- like this kind of relates to what we're talking about earlier with just like lifestyle choices. If this is something religious, I personally would not worry about it. I would just engage in the religious tradition or whatever it may be and not sweat it. It's a very small amount of presumably bread. She's talking about I didn't know it was called a host. I've never heard it called that before.
Cynthia Thurlow: She's probably Catholic. That's what we call it.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, you do? Okay. I don't think we call it that, maybe we do. So, I wouldn't stress about it. Of course, if it was something where you're celiac and you couldn't have bread, that would be like a different thing. I do wonder with stuff like that on the rise, do if some churches adapt for that. Do they do gluten free?
Cynthia Thurlow: I am told that some Catholic churches offer gluten-free options, but I don't think it's the norm.
Melanie Avalon: Okay. Yeah, that's really interesting. That's my thoughts on it. I would not stress about it. It's a small amount. Hopefully, you don't get crazy blood sugar swings from it and you can just get back into your fasted state pretty quickly. You could take some Berberine, some AvalonX Berberine before? What are your thoughts, Cynthia?
Cynthia Thurlow: Well, I have actually not answered this question in this context before. I think that our relationship with our spiritual life and our religion is a very personal one. I am Catholic, was raised Roman Catholic, and when I go to Mass on a Sunday or a Saturday, I just don't let it be a stressor. With that being said, I think it's big picture. Like we need to focus on what's the big picture? You are standing in communion line, you are taking Holy Communion, you are putting the host into your mouth that basically disintegrates almost immediately and then you swallow it. I don't think that should be a deterrent. I don't think you should bring the host home because in the context of being in Mass, you're just accepted at that time. I think that whether it's 10:30 Mass, 11:00 Mass, it's once a week. I don't think it should be a source of stress.
And certainly, when I go to Mass, I only go twice a month, sometimes once a month. Coming off the pandemic, we really got out of the habit of doing it. It doesn't even register. It's just part of the ritual of being in Mass. To me, my faith and my relationship with God and the Holy Spirit is a personal one. Even though I've been dedicated gluten free for eleven years, having a host a few times or once or twice a month, it doesn't even register as being a concern and I don't think it should be for you either, Denise. That's my personal opinion.
Melanie Avalon: Yes, two thoughts to that. I'm glad you addressed the bringing it home. I would not bring it home because, like you said, Cynthia, that's the purpose and the point is engaging in that sacrament at that moment. I don't know that it's something you can do like a la carte afterwards at least not for the original purpose of it. Like you said, Cynthia, it's such a small amount. Going back to what we're talking about earlier like the big picture grand scheme of things, I don't like to talk in absolutes, but it's probably not going to make any difference on your overall health physically having that one small little piece once a week.
Cynthia Thurlow: I agree. Yeah. Don't sweat the small stuff as they say.
Melanie Avalon: Exactly. So alright. We will end with one last quick question, also a carryover from our AMAs. Courtney wants to know what is the one skincare product you can't live without.
Cynthia Thurlow: I'm obsessed with clean Chapstick, obsessed. It is the one thing throughout my day that I apply throughout the day that I'm very conscientious about. When I travel, I always have it accessible. It's this organic shea butter Chapstick product. I would say that is like my ride-or-die product. I could do without a lot of other things, but if I don't have that accessible to me, I buy them in mass quantities. I've got them in a drawer in my kitchen. I have one in my drawer in my study. I have one upstairs. I think I have two in my purse. Super moisturizing and just really nice. How about you, Melanie?
Melanie Avalon: That's so funny. I never wear Chapstick.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I have to, my lips have to be moisturized.
Melanie Avalon: Wow. Beautycounter has these jellies, I love those. I wear those. But yeah, not Chapstick.
Cynthia Thurlow: Well, it's not a gloss, it's not lipstick. It's just super emollient and the stage of life I'm in, I love having really moisturized lips. Not so that they look glossy, but that's like my go-to.
Melanie Avalon: Got you, Chapstick.
Cynthia Thurlow: Probably makes me sound crazy, but I was like, "Oh, I know exactly what I would choose."
Melanie Avalon: It's so funny. I know she said one. I'm torn because there are two Beautycounter products that I use every single night and I'm obsessed with them, so I'm going to say both. I've seen such a change in my skin from using these and when I travel, I bring them and they're just amazing. It's the Overnight Resurfacing Peel, which it's not a peel, it sounds like a mass that you peel off. It's not. They call it that because the effects basically rival a chemical peel that you would get, but without the toxins and the craziness. So, it's just a serum. But It's amazing for brightening and antiaging and skin tightening. "Ah, I love it." I always wash my face and then I put that on and then I let it dry. I use their All Bright vitamin C Serum, which I love, love, love that also is just amazing for the antioxidants and the antiaging and the brightening effects on your skin.
I think something that's really important to keep in mind about skin is, well, A, I think our diet has such an effect on it. It's funny. I didn't start using skincare products for the longest time because I was like, "Oh, it's all just diet. It's all just what I put on the inside. I don't need to worry about the outside." And then I realized, "Oh, this actually does have a major effect because you can directly put these nutrients into your skin." So, that's important. Which is also why it's important to have clean skincare because you could also directly put toxins into your skin. So, yes, those two products, the Overnight Resurfacing Peel and the All Bright C Serum, I love those. By Beautycounter. It might change when this comes out. New customers can shop. We both have links for Beautycounter, so they can shop with either of us. New customers can use the coupon code. It changes, sometimes it's CLEANFORALL20, sometimes it's CLEANFORALL30. It's the words CLEANFORALL and then 20 or 30 ant that will get you either 20% or 30% off. So, try those codes.
So, okie dokie. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email firstname.lastname@example.org or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. Show notes for today's episode will be at @ifpodcast.com/episode309. Those show notes will have a full transcript, so definitely check that out. You can also follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast. I am @melanieavalon. Cynthia is @cynthia_thurlow_ and then definitely tune in next week because it's going to be a super special episode with Scott Emmens. I think people are really starting to love Scott, so that will be with Cynthia and Scott about her Inositol, so definitely stay tuned for that.
Cynthia Thurlow: Awesome.
Melanie Avalon: Okie dokie. Anything from you, Cynthia, before we go?
Cynthia Thurlow: No. Thank you so much for all the great feedback and tags on social media about the Creatine. People are loving it and I'm very, very grateful that everyone is enjoying it as much as I have.
Melanie Avalon: I wanted to tell you, Cynthia, while we're recording this episode that aired for me last Friday was with Kris Gethin. He's a bodybuilder with a massive social media following, but he's done an Ironman as well, which is really cool. He has a supplement line, but he in that episode talked all about Creatine and how much he loved it. It's always exciting to hear it come up. I feel like I keep hearing it more and more from people. I don't know if it's because it's more on my radar now or if I just am genuinely hearing it more and more. I think it's both.
Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, me too. In fact, now anytime I see it, people tag me in other people's posts, and I always agree with what they're saying. What I love is that it's not just men that are talking about now, it's also women.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, and I think that might be one of the reasons as well that it's being talked about more and more is that it is on women's radar. Whereas before I feel like it was more just like the bodybuilding sphere, but now we're realizing the benefits beyond that. So, awesome. All right, well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week.
Cynthia Thurlow: Sounds good.
Melanie Avalon: Bye.
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.
[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription]
STUFF WE LIKE
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Cynthia's Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Cynthia: cynthiathurlow.com
Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know!