Welcome to Episode 492 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 492 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode 492 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Mel, I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
I'm good. We were just... But what's new with you? It's been, like, so long. Oh, my goodness. Well, it hasn't been long for listeners, but it's been long for us recording.

Barry Conrad
I think listeners inside baseball a lot of the time because it a- our episodes air every week, it can seem like we're talking every single week, but sometimes we go t- like, without because we, we schedule different podcast days. So a bit of a insight to that.

So this is always, it's always exciting to jump back in and record. It's so awesome to get to hang with my favorite Atlantean. Did you call it Atlantean? Atlanty.

Melanie Avalon
Atlantean sounds way too, like, beautiful and esoteric for the way I feel about Atlanta right now.

Barry Conrad
Why? It's not giving that?

Melanie Avalon
I know it's September for you future guys, but it's so hot.

Barry Conrad
I know. I just walked through the heat right now. I was finishing an episode of my show, and I w- I literally was trying to walk as fast but also as slow as I could because it was, man, it was just... It's, it's like a tropical monsoon out there. It's crazy.

But hopefully everyone listening right now in the comfort of the cool breeze. Just cool temperatures.

Melanie Avalon
Happy September.

Barry Conrad
Happy September. But Mel, I, uh, it's funny, I was upstate recently, and, uh, a mate of mine who was there, shout out to John, he jokingly asked me, he was like, "Do sharks intermittent fast?" And I of course, I of course laughed, and I was like, "No, what are you, what are you on, man?" And, and then, but then I actually started looking into it and it turns out it's actually pretty interesting. Like there's a few... Do you, okay, do you know about animals who fast?

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's funny, uh, 'cause, I mean, lions. I, 'cause I was gonna say I feel like a, I feel like a lot of animals do.

I feel like it's kind of... I mean, 'cause how many animal-- Really the only animal, I mean, I could be wrong, but the animals that eat constantly are, are, are house pets because we feed them constantly. But out in the wild, I mean, well, okay, cows are eating grass, like, all day. The herbivores are eating constantly 'cause they have to get enough calories. But the carnivores, mm-mm, they're not eating constantly, and a shark would be a carnivore.

Barry Conrad
For example, I mean, for example, we've got our spiny dogfish sharks. They naturally eat large meals at irregular intervals, you know? And during prolonged fasting, blood glucose was maintained while their beta-hydroxybutyrate rose two to three times. So I mean, sharks really, you know, after feeding, that fell, and after fifty-six days of starvation, sharks lost about point three percent of their body mass per day.

So I mean, sharks don't really IF in, like, our sense, but they, some of the species generally live on irregular meals followed by, like, massive prolonged fasting, and their metabolism is, like, built to really handle that. So it's interesting. Pythons, another example. Wolves are another example. Lions, another example. King penguins, another example as well.

Melanie Avalon
I really would think that most animals that are carnivorous, uh, think about it, like, if you're in the wild, you have to catch-- If you're a carnivore, you have to go, you have to catch something. So it's not like you can just be at the buffet and, like, eat the meat all day.

You have to go get it. So it really, like, forces you into fasting.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And crocodilians, like, they, their fasting changes their actual gut.

Melanie Avalon
How so?

Barry Conrad
So researchers found that their, like, digestive organs actually change between fasting and feeding. Like, their, their intestinal lining actually changes configuration. Like, this, the cells in the intestine and liver change size and lipid storage as they move into digestion, which is crazy.

So John, shout out to John. This is very, like, a bit of a spanner, but I, I kind of, like, paid you out and said no. But once I looked into it, like, a lot of animals, you know, humans didn't invent the idea of going long periods without food. That's what I'll say. I mean, across the animal kingdom, feast and famine feeding is pretty normal. Right, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm just thinking, like, if somebody was like, "Do sharks fast?" I'd be like, "Yeah, probably." But do cows fast? No.

Do... Anything where they're having to just, where they are eating all day, like monkeys are probably not 'cause they're... Hmm. Well, yep. Team fasting. And, and I think that's a huge problem with, um, like, like I said, our house pets. We're feeding them constantly, and I'm not sure that they're supposed to be doing that.

Barry Conrad
I think people, well, animals in general Humans, animals, we, we just, we eat too much food, you know? And as a whole, like generally, we don't need to

Melanie Avalon
Literally the takeaway.

Barry Conrad
But, uh, how has, how has your week been? How's your day been? What's been happening?

Melanie Avalon
It's good. I have two really exciting things. I'm trying to decide which one to tell. Okay, I'll tell... Hmm, you get, you can pick. Do you wanna hear... They're both about my brands.

Barry Conrad
Give me like a number one and number two, and don't tell me what it is, and I'll do like a, a s-

Melanie Avalon
I'll, like, assign it a number in my head?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. I, I, I assigned it. Okay, so number one or number two?

Barry Conrad
Number one.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Okay.

So I... Friends, this is, like, a big, big development in my, my life. So my AvalonX supplement line, and I guess I can talk about this because it w- it will be happening in November, I think. I am going to do my first, I'm so excited, uh, national television campaign, like TV commercials, like on TV, and with a celebrity.

Barry Conrad
Wow! That is amazing. That is so... Congratulations, Mel. That's amazing news. And listeners, I did not know this. This is real time.

Melanie Avalon
Do you wanna guess who?

Barry Conrad
Oh, no. You c- you have to give me a, like, a hint or like a, okay, an age group, a hint, a g- like a, are they actor, singer, host? Just public figure? What, you know?

Melanie Avalon
So male, I think almost, I think he's late 60s, maybe 70, and he is a host, comedian. Uh, he does a lot of stuff. Mostly known as being a host and a comedian.

Barry Conrad
Steve Harvey?

Melanie Avalon
No.

Barry Conrad
Give me another clue.

Melanie Avalon
He has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. That's not a good clue, though. I just felt like saying that.

Barry Conrad
That's, that's massive flex, though.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Okay, here, here's a clue. It's a really, really good deal. I got a really good deal. Well, I did get a good deal, but that's the hint.

Barry Conrad
Ah. Hold on a sec. Can I, like, can I use Google, or no?

Melanie Avalon
If you wanna cheat.

Barry Conrad
Hey, okay, okay, I'm not g- okay, I'm not using Google at all, I promise. I feel Deal or No Deal, right? Is that what you just heard her say?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm.

Barry Conrad
The host of Deal or No Deal.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and America's Got Talent. Howie Mandel.

Barry Conrad
That is amazing.

Melanie Avalon
Isn't that exciting?

Barry Conrad
That's so incredible. Like, congratulations, and I'm-

Melanie Avalon
I'm, like, in shock still. Um, yeah, basically, uh, so he works with a brand partnership company, and they reached out, and they were, like, saying that he, um, they were saying that they work with a lot of celebrities, and they partner celebrities with brands, and normally it's, like, you know, really big brands.

They were like, "But occasionally the client wants something very specific." And they were like, Howie Mandel wanted to partner with... I guess he wanted to partner with, like, a really good supplement line that has really good standards and, you know, they had like a checklist, and so they found me. And they were like, "Do you wanna do it?" And I was like, "What?" So I've been, I've been having like... I had so many calls with him, but it is, the paper is signed. Yeah. It's gonna be... Yeah, it's gonna be all, it will, it's gonna be regional, so I'm not sure, like, exactly where it's gonna air. I'm filling out targeting stuff right now, but it will be on, like, all the major stations. And then there's also gonna be, it's gonna be on his podcast. It's gonna be, there's gonna be a New York Times billboard. There's gonna be some print articles. It's like a whole campaign.

Barry Conrad
That's incredibly exciting and, like, such a massive achievement, and he should be so lucky to be part of this, be part of your supplement line. So that's so awesome.

Is, is there anything specifically that he's gonna be, that he loves to, that he wants to talk about, or is it kinda like across the whole line, or what specific product?

Melanie Avalon
That's what we're talking about right now. So I, I guess he's getting more and more into health and wellness, and I, I'm just grateful because I feel like I've been with this line in a, like a fishbowl. Like I've really just promoted it to my audience. Like I've never done paid advertising so I skipped like a lot of steps there. But I'm really excited 'cause I feel like this is gonna, well, it's gonna give me so much credibility, and it's really gonna push it out there to a more mainstream audience.

I think we're probably gonna do magnesium, Magnesium 8, because, you know, it's, it's one of our best sellers, and it's, it's so helpful for, for so many things 'cause it, you know, it's involved in over 300 processes in the body, so it helps, you know, sleep and mood and digestion and muscle recovery. So I think that's the one we're gonna, gonna go with.

Barry Conrad
Exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm excited. So say prayers that it goes well.

Barry Conrad
Congratulations. H-How do you feel?

Like, 'cause this is new to- new territory, right? So how... When you finally, when, when you got word that he was interested versus when it actually, the deal was done, like, what did you th- what did you think? Was it just an ordinary day and you just saw that in your inbox, or did you kind of-

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they reached out cold, and I thought it might be a scam when I first saw it, and then I did a call, and I was like, "Oh, this is not a scam. This is real." And then I was like, "Is this really happening?" And then it was a big, a big part of it was... 'Cause I, it is, it, I'm getting, like I said, a good deal. I'm, like he's, they're doing it at a very affordable price, but it was still was... I had to figure out the finances of how to, how to fund it. So that was stressful. No, yeah, it's just been like surreal, and I'm j- I'm just so grateful. I'm so, so grateful. Like what... And, but what's interesting, and I won't talk about this for the whole show, I promise, but I talked with a l- a lot of people were saying I shouldn't do it. They were saying, you know, "You could put that money towards, like, other things," or, like, you know, "You might, uh, you just don't know how it's gonna turn out." And I was like, it's not e- it's not really about that for me. It's about, like, it's about just the beautiful honor and the credibility, and I, like I see the, a bigger picture here. S-So I'm not really as much concerned as like, "Oh, it's gonna sell this amount of bottles." For me, it's like, how does this elevate the brand to the next level? Um, which I really, really think it does. And then I've been, like, using that. Like I'm, I'm already seeing it because my other, my other thing that I was gonna tell you, which I can tell you next week, I've been already integrating mentioning this as like a way to get... you know, navigate business and other areas of my life. Like it, it really does add a lot of credibility. So yeah, it feels amazing. I'm so grateful, and I'm really grateful to my parents 'cause they're helping me.

Barry Conrad
You deserve it, Mel. Seriously.

Melanie Avalon
So thank you. So we'll see how it goes. And I, I didn't tell you yet because I wanted to tell you in person, which is right now, so.

Barry Conrad
Which is right now, real time, everyone.

Melanie Avalon
I wanna-- I almost told you like 20 times, and I was like, "No, I'm gonna tell him on the podcast."

Barry Conrad
So good. So yeah, and we're gonna celebrate after the show as well, so we'll do that.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Thank you.

Thank you, thank you. It's funny, um, last thing about it, it's weird for me-- this is-- I think, think this is the most surreal part about... I mean, there's a lot of surreal stuff about it, but I think the most surreal part is I, I'm having flashbacks 'cause, like, right now, so I'm filling out all the information right now about, like, targeting and the product and demographics and, you know, how do I want the commercial to look like and, and so it's-- I'm thinking, like, I mean, it's gonna be a sad commercial that they're gonna film with him, and so I know if it has like... I just keep thinking, like, if it has like, you know, like extras in the background, then there's probably like a casting call for it, so I'm having flashbacks to, like, when I lived in LA and would, like, apply to commercials and stuff. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, it's, like, gonna be my commercial that they're, like, creating."

Barry Conrad
What about like... it's, it's like worlds colliding, like, you know, your sort of like, if you wanna say past world, I guess we could say, like, you know, like more like your reality back then, like meeting now, which is like you would never have imagined.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. No, no, no, that's the other thing 'cause people are like, "Well, wouldn't you wanna work with somebody who's more like a health person?" I'm like, "No, like this is bringing everything together." Like entertainment is my, my love and passion and where this all came from, and so this literally brings everything full circle, and I would love to get into a more mainstream audience rather than necessarily like the biohacking health people.

I mean, I love you guys. I'm just saying like , I'm just saying like... Yeah. I, I think it's amazing. And I, I love that they reached out to me like that. It's, it's not like I had to go knocking on doors. Like to get a celebrity partnership like that, like I feel like I would really have to work for that. You know, like pitch myself hard.

Barry Conrad
Well, the reality is like when things like that happen, it's, it's also a testament of like literally years and ups and downs and probably uncertainty and not knowing. Like you just basically as, uh, like Aussie would say, like you're taking a punt. You're just like taking-- you're betting on yourself every step of the way. And so when something like this comes along, it's not a validation, but just such a like stake in the ground, like everything is worth, has been worth it.

Like you've really, you know? It has so, so much legs. It's, uh, roots in the ground and, a-and yeah, like it's not like you're deserting your biohacking audience, but the whole point of everything is always to reach the masses. You're not leaving anyone behind. You're just reaching more people.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Abundance mindset.

And to that point, yeah, like you get it because, you know, you're a creative... like we're both creative people and, you know, our whole lives have been content creation and performing and creating things and, and it's all very scary. And like, you know, we're not, we're not doing like the typical nine-to-five jobs and so like you said, every little thing-- 'cause I think y- you-- it can be so easy to get caught in like, uh, well, A, fears and like, "Is this gonna work out," and, "How long can I keep doing this?" And so it's, it's like you said, it's a nice like validation step to be like-- to-- it's like the universe saying, "You're going in the right direction," like, "Keep going even when it's hard."

Barry Conrad
Don't you just love s-surprise spenders like this? Not even a spender, surprise, like, gifts like this.

Melanie Avalon
I'm so grateful. I really, really am, and I'll tell you more at, w- on our... We'll talk more. I'll tell you more later about the details of it. But yeah. Okay. So that was my first news, um.

Barry Conrad
I'm so happy for you.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And I know you, and I know like you really appreciate it. Like I said, we're in similar worlds. So okay. Should we jump into fasting stuff?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
All righty. Uh, do you have a study to start us out with?

Barry Conrad
I do. So I have a study called Exploring the Impact of Intermittent Fasting plus Time Restricted Eating versus Calorie Restriction on Eating Behavior, Mood, Sleep, Quality of Life in Adults with Obesity. I know that's a mouthful, but that's the title.

So it was published in Clinical Nu-Nutrition in twenty twenty-six, so this year, and I actually think it is... it's really interesting because the researchers weren't just looking at weight loss, which a lot of IF studies do. They were looking at what these different eating patterns did to people's behavior around food, including hunger, overeating, mood, sleep, and quality of life. And this was a randomized controlled trial involving two hundred and nine adults, fifty-seven percent, percent women, forty-three percent men. The average age was fifty-eight years old, plus or minus ten years. Height was not reported in the paper, so we don't have that figure, but the average body weight was about a hundred kgs, so ninety-eight point eight kilos in the intermittent fasting group, a hundred and one kilos in the calorie restriction group, and ninety-four point five kilos in the standard care group. So the average BMI was about thirty-four point eight, and these were adults with obesity who were also at increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes. And what the study found was the IF group was doing a pretty specific form of fasting, the three, three non-consecutive days each week, so they consumed thirty percent of their calculated energy requirements between eight AM and noon, and they fasted for twenty hours, so that's what I do. On their other days, they ate their regular diet, and the calorie restriction group consumed seventy percent of their calculated daily energy requirements every single day. And there was also a standard care group that received like just healthy eating guidelines. The intervention lasted six months, so quite A decent amount of time, and then the researchers followed the participants for another 12 months, which is quite long, giving them data out to like 18 months. So this wasn't just a couple of weeks of people trying fasting and whatnot and disappearing. At six months, the intermittent fasting group lost an average of six-- 7.38 kilos. Their calorie restriction group lost about seven kgs, 6.99, and the standard care group lost 2.44 kgs, which is interesting. There was no significant difference between IF fasting and the calorie restriction for weight loss per se. So in this study, both approaches produced a pretty similar amount of weight loss for that. But the part I found most interesting for me was like what happened with the eating behavior. So the researchers, they, uh, they used like validated questionnaires to measure like, like restraint and, and like disinhibition or hunger. And dietary restraint is basically, for people who don't know, it's how much conscious control someone uses around their food intake. And disinhibition is more sort of like about how likely someone is to overeat in response to, you know, your internal or external cues, behavior around you, people around you, your peers, your work coworkers or whatnot.

Barry Conrad
And the calorie restriction group actually showed greater improvements in those areas than the IF fasting group. At six months, the dietary restraint increased by 3.67 points in the calorie restriction group, compared with 1.40 points in the IF fasting group. Disinhibition decreased by 2.3 points with calorie restriction compared with 1.24 points with IF. So the hunger also decreased more with calorie restriction.

Uh, I guess this is important because the study doesn't show that, you know, one or the other gives you better control necessarily around food. But then it did something that I thought was really interesting about f- around fasting. At month six, people in the IF fasting group were assessed after like a normal 12-hour overnight fast and after their 20-hour fasting period. And hunger was basically identical, identical. The aver- the average hunger score was 5.48 after the 12-hour fast and 5.49 after the 12-hour fast with a, a P value of 0.95. So there was also no significant difference in disinhibition. So these, these participants going from normal overnight fasting for 20 hours didn't appear to like be significantly hungrier or more likely to control-- lose control around their food. But it's interesting 'cause like one concern people sometimes have about intermittent fasting is that, you know, if you spend longer without food, you know, are you gonna-- is it gonna cause a rebound in hunger? Are you gonna overeat once the fast ends? But basically what the, what they're finding in the study is there's no evidence of that when they measured it in that way.

They also looked at depression, anxiety, sleep, quality of life, and stress, and there were no significant between group differences in depression or anxiety. There was a small difference in stress at, at two months with the IF fasting group showing less improvement than the calorie restriction group, but that difference was not sustained at all. There was no significant difference between the groups in sleep quality. The researchers then looked at whether changes eating-- changes in eating behavior actually helped explain the weight loss. So for example, in the calorie restriction group, reduced disinhibition appeared to account for about like 15% of their treatment, of the treatment effect on weight loss. They didn't find the same medication effect in the IF fasting group. So the researchers like are basically suggest that the two approaches may lead to weight loss through different behavioral pathways.

There are a few important limitations. So this was an analysis of a randomized control trial, so the participants received regular dietician support during the six-month intervention. The people with diagnosed eating disorders were excluded from this, which is really important to note. So we can't assume that these results would be identical in every single person who tries a 20-hour fast. The study also measured eating behavior using questionnaires rather than just like observing a sim-- you know, every meal people ate.

Barry Conrad
So for me, the interesting part of all this for IF is that the fasting schedule produced similar weight loss, but the behavioral picture was different. Like the fasting participants didn't show significant increase in hunger, disinhibition of negative mood when they were assessed over the 20 hours without food. And, you know, I think it gives us a more like nuanced way of looking at IF. It's not necessarily that fasting makes people better at controlling food.

It, it may give people, some people anyway, a different structure like around what they eat, you know, while producing a similar result over time. 'Cause what, what we've always said is like we're not claiming to be a weight loss magic pill. You know? There's so many more non-scale victories that intermittent fasting has. And in this study, th-that structure, you know, it didn't appear to make participants more hungry and more out of control around food at all or worse psychologically. Mel, what do you think about this?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So interesting. So basically the takeaway was that both fasting and calorie restriction led to sustained weight loss with the fasters losing a little bit more, but not a ton. And the reasoning behind it is-- was different as t- as for like why that happened behaviorally with the, um, calorie restricting people got better at like controlling their food intake That was their experience, but which didn't happen as much in the fasting group, but they still lost weight. And it didn't account for any more weight loss with them being that way. It was almost equal.

I wonder then, 'cause I'm, like, scanning through it. So they, they really clearly outline the behavioral mechanisms of the calorie restriction, which is the less... Well, it's the things you said. So basically, uh, the reduced disinhibition and reduced hunger and the increased dietary restraint, but they don't say, they don't say what the mechanism is in fasting.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. They don't, they don't divulge that, but they do, they do say that the fasting, you know, participants didn't show a significant increase in hunger, you know, or negative mood or disinhibition when they were assessed over those 20 hours, even though they have a similar weight loss to just calorie restriction.

And they, and that they actually produced... They actually... It says here that they actually produced greater improvements in several measures of eating behavior, which they don't really get into detail about, but they say that.

Melanie Avalon
It's like a mystery. 'Cause basically they're, they're saying, okay, similar weight loss with fasting and calories, like calorie restriction. But what we know for the calorie restriction is that they were, you know, basically better dieters. They were controlling themselves more.

They weren't as hungry. They were... But we don't know what the fasting people were doing. Like, you know? Like, what is the… I wanna know what the behavioral mechanism was for the fasters.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. It doesn't really go into the detail of that as much.

Melanie Avalon
The anti-fasters are gonna love this study. I feel like, 'cause people, people are always saying like, "Oh, is fasting just calorie restriction?" And then, you know. That's really interesting.

It's also interesting though, and they, and they did say this somewhere, I saw it. It is interesting that if you wanna play devil's advocate, that they did have more control in their head with dieting than the fasters, but they didn't lose any more weight from that. So that's interesting. So basically the, the fasters, if you wanna spin it in, in favor of fasting, you would say, well, the fasters lost the same or a little bit more than the calorie restrictors without ha- without going into this more, like, mindset of control and, yeah, and restriction and everything. Which this study is talking about it as a positive thing. It's funny 'cause we've talked about another study in the past where they used these same words, but they, they said it as like a negative thing. 'Cause they were saying, like, dietary restraint is like dieting essentially. That's a, that, that's a whole tangent. You know? It's like, do you wanna be better at dietary restraint or not? Like, in your head, you know?

Barry Conrad
Definitely. Well, I think, like, I was cautious about bringing it, but I just wanted to, like, it's a real study, but it also still is in favor of fasting. You know? It's not, it's not saying. Because what we always say on the show is that fasting is not like a, a weight loss, a fat loss pill to take.

So this is a study that, that shows that. But it's still, we still have the edge here in terms of we still lost slightly a little bit more and we didn't feel the confines of, like, s- essentially diet brain and having to control and having to overthink and be, you know, so meticulous about that. And that is more dieting. So I still think it's team, this study still presents team fasting for the win to me. That's how, that's, that's what I'm seeing from this. That's my takeaway.

Melanie Avalon
That's so funny, 'cause I was literally gonna say, like, the same thing. 'Cause I was gonna say when you first mentioned the dietary restraint and everything, I was like, "Oh, well, that's kind of positive for fasting." But like I said, it's interpreting it differently. So it's really, um, it's really about your perception.

I would say the takeaway is, um, if you eat less it works. If you, and if you... And I mean this. Like, if you, you... It's like what you were saying at the beginning about we just eat too much today. And so, like, whatever mechanism works for you to reduce that intake, if you can sustain it, which is key, works, and that's evident by the calorie restriction working and the fasting working. However, it's, it's what, what behavioral, you know, vibes do you wanna be in while doing that? For me, doing calorie restriction, I am gonna feel, like, that diet brain and that over, you know, restraint and everything like that, and I don't like that. So that's why I like fasting better, because I never experience that and I still lose the weight. So it's really like a choose your own adventure and I'm really team fasting obviously.

Barry Conrad
Obviously. And this is also what I tell people when I'm approached at a dinner or at an event or anything like that.

I always, if they ask me about fasting, I'll tell them everything I know about fasting and at the end of the day I'll also say, "You should do whatever you want." Because, you know, there's no... You do whatever you feel, but this is what works for me and this is, I know it works for me, but I'm not trying to preach it to you.

Melanie Avalon
So, so true. Well, awesome. Awesome find. Nicely done. Shall we answer some listener questions?

Barry Conrad
We should. So first up we have an email from Angel, and she's like, "Love your podcast. I have read about all the awesome benefits of autophagy, but I have a few questions about how to achieve it. One, how many hours, in brackets, or days do we have to fast to get into autophagy? Two, does eating a ketogenic diet and being in ketosis expedite the time in autophagy? Three, does exercise or sweating expedite the time in- to autophagy? Four, I read that autophagy happens at night while we're sleeping. Is that true? The article further comments, further recommends to stop eating at noon for autophagy to happen at night. Five, autophagy is triggered after glycogen stores are depleted. Is that true? So putting it all together, if I'm in ketosis, stopping eating at noon, do HIIT workout after workout, deplete my glycogen stores, and take a bath or sauna before going to bed, then it stands to reason that autophagy will be triggered while I sleep. "Is this possible? Thank you so much for your help.

Keep up the good work. Angel." Melanie, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Incredible questions, Angel. Okay, so many things. I did a deep dive into autophagy, and going into it, what I learned was mostly in line with what I thought I was going to find because we, we know... So what is autophagy? Maybe we should start by defining that. So basically, it is a process in the body where the body-- and it typically happens in, in a low-energy state. The body goes and recycles older broken proteins in your body and uses them for repair, energy, all the things. So it's kind of like a deep cleansing on the cellular level, and it's great, and we love activating it. It's linked to longevity, you know, better health, all the things.

Here's the misconception about it, 'cause people think, "Okay, autophagy happens when you're fasting," like that it's, like, on and off. It does, and it's actually always happening at some, at some level. So I, I found one study once, and we've talked about it on the show, and it liter-literally says, like, autophagy is always happening on a cellular level at, to some g- to some point. So it's more like a, um, like a sliding scale or a spectrum rather than on or off. And then as far as what can affect it, so I'll just go through your different ones, Angel, one by one. So how many hours or days of fasting does it take to reach autophagy? So this one is probably pretty overstated or simplified in the intermittent fasting world 'cause people are like, "Oh," like, "it's on, it's off," but really there's not that much research on this, especially in humans. There was one clinical trial, and it found that autophagy flux in humans uses a 23-hour fasting window as its time point. Animal studies suggest it might begin between 24 to 48 hours of fasting. Some cite a even later window, so, like, 36 to 72 hours of fasting. So the, the, the honest answer is any answer where it's like, "Oh, a 16/8 triggers fasting or trigger," sorry, "triggers autophagy," that's oversimplified. 16 hours, you're probably nudging the process, but for actual, like, really intense robust autophagy, it probably is longer than that, but we just don't know what that is. So how long? Let's see. And then does ketosis expedite the time into autophagy? So possibly through the mechanisms. So a low insulin helps support autophagy, and a keto diet can keep insulin low. It can put the body into a fat-burning mode. All of these things researchers hypothesize can increase autophagy, so there, that, that is likely with that. However, it's probably less than a water-only fast because, like I said, one of, one of the key things that, like, shuts off autophagy is having calories, food, especially protein, amino acids. So a- and on a keto diet you're often eating higher protein, so it might be effect... It's kind of like doing two things at once. Like, yes, it's lowering insulin, which can in-increase autophagy, but also you're, like, eating, which, you know, turns off autog-autophagy. And then exercise and sweating. So, yes, and I used to use this as, this as an example, especially when we talk about, like, is autophagy on or off, or only when you're fasting?

Melanie Avalon
And I was like, no, because exercise activates autophagy. Coffee activates autophagy, and you don't have to be fasted for those. So yes, exercise has been shown to independently support autophagy separate from fasting. In one study, the autophagy response from a vigorous exercise session lasted for six hours afterwards, and if you were to combine, like we can think, we can plausibly assume that if you were to combine exercise with fasting, it probably would push the timeline even earlier. Uh, yeah, so exercise probably is more effective at inducing autophagy if you're already in ketosis or a fasted state.

And as for the sauna, the heat exposure, those are also hormetic stressors, so, like, basically good stresses for the body, but they're not hardcore studied for autophagy, so hard to know about those. And then does it happen at night while sleeping, and does stopping eating at noon help trigger it? So this is another one that's, like, way oversimplified. There is no, you know, really good evidence that autophagy is only at night or attached to, like, a sleep process of sorts. It's more likely tied to, to fasting, to your insulin, not the actual, like, timing of things. So if you stop eating earlier in the day at noon, then yes, you're gonna be more fasted when you go to bed, so yes, you're gonna have more autophagy. But it's not because it's nighttime or you're sleeping.

It's because you are more fasted, if that makes sense. And then is it triggered after glycogen depletion? So this is kind of true but also incomplete. It-- but also incomplete. So it's protein intake, like I said before, amino acids. That's something that really turns autophagy off. Glycogen depletion and dropping insulin are also, are related because of the insulin picture, but it's really the, the protein and the amino acids that are the main signal here. So it's not as much about glycogen depletion, although glycogen depletion can help you get into a deeper fast, and it can help support, like, AMPK and the fasted state and low insulin. So indirectly it could be helping, but it's not, like, the main thing.

It's not the main switch. So putting it all together, she wants to, like, stack all this stuff, you know, like do keto, stop eating at noon, have an evening high-intensity interval session, a sauna and bath before bed. So all of those things are probably gonna push you more towards autophagy, but you can't actually- Like measure it per se. So it's more about-- I mean, I, it's basically like I would say everything you're doing sounds great. Keep doing it. Yes, it's probably going to increase autophagy. At least right now, you're not gonna be able to like confirm that or like measure it. So I would do... I also wouldn't do what you're doing just for autophagy. Like, I would do what you're doing for whatever makes you feel healthy, you know, provides or maintains the-- helps you lose weight or maintains the weight that you like. Like do the things that fit into your life. And then especially if you- if with that you're doing the fasting, you will, you'll be getting, you'll be getting autophagy.

Melanie Avalon
It's just hard to know like exactly, you know, what is doing what. So, Harry, what are your thoughts?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, Angel, thanks so much for your question. I-- you know, there's no-- we don't have a reliable way to measure like a whole body autophagy, you know, in a living person situation and give you the, like the exact timestamp it happens at hour eighteen or whatnot. It's, you know, I'd be very skeptical of, of anyone giving you that.

Melanie, you explained it so perfectly. It was so great. You know, you could plan theoretically to create all these conditions that promote autophagy, and as Mel said, what you're doing is already awesome. But I'd stop short of saying like, "If I do all these five things, I'll definitely trigger autophagy," you know? And I honestly think you don't need to engineer that perfect autophagy hack because fasting itself is already such a, like a powerful signal and, and the goal should be supporting your overall health, I think, rather than trying to chase a cellular process that you-- we can't at the moment as far as we know, really measure at home. But I love-- I do appreciate the, the rabbit hole that you, like, dived into here and, um, yeah, I think what you're doing is great anyway, and I echo what Melanie said about I wouldn't just do those things for just autophagy. I mean, there's so many other benefits as well. It's-- there's no light switch for this. What you're doing is working anyway. Trust the process. Don't worry so much about, am I in autophagy right now? It's all gonna be fine. But thank you so much for your question, Angel, and keep us posted.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And I love what, like Angel's got the whole protocol down. Like it's-- I love like having like a, like a, a routine and every- and everything that works for you. All like health promoting things, because those are all great things.

Like exercise, fasting, keto, you know, heat exposure, sleep. All great things.

Barry Conrad
All great things.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. So now we have a question from Anne Marie. The subject is sore muscles, and Anne Marie says, "Hello. I am two weeks into intermittent fasting, and I'm down ten pounds. I have binged listened to your podcast, and I've learned so much." Thank you. "I am forty-seven years old and have recently diagno- been diagnosed with insulin resistance, and my doctor recommended IF. My question is, I have for the last several days had sore muscles. Like I've been working out like crazy and my arms are sore. I have not been working out and wonder if this is some sort of detox symptom or what? I've had a difficult time losing weight with any other type of diet/eating and wonder what is going on. I do take magnesium glycate nightly." Some of the... She might mean glycinate. "Some of the boards suggest magnesium, yet I already do. Any suggestions appreciated."

Barry Conrad
Well, Anne Marie, thanks so much for the question and first off, big congrats on actually getting, just getting started and like ten pounds in, in a couple weeks is an awesome start. But what's even more impressive to me is hearing that your doctor recommended intermittent fasting because of your ins-- you know, 'cause I don't know about you, Mel, but I don't-- I've never heard that. When I-- well, I think I told you a while ago, I tried to talk about this to a doctor, and they basically told me not to intermittent fast. They were saying all the reasons why not. You know, and they didn't really know. They weren't educated. So I really love that your doctor recommended intermittent fasting because of your insulin resistance. Shout out to that doctor.

And I think we're seeing more and more healthcare providers, I think, finally recognizing just how powerful fasting can be, you know, um, as a tool. Let's get into these sore muscles. So the first thing I'd say is that sore muscles aren't generally considered a classic or expected like quote unquote "detox symptom," Anne Marie, of intermittent fasting. Like I know the word detox gets chucked around a lot, you know, but I think we have to be careful with that language because well, th- there isn't a lot of evidence that fasting causes your muscles to become sore just because your body's detoxing. I know I haven't experienced that myself. And that said, I wouldn't dismiss necessarily what you're experiencing. You know, there are a few possibilities. The first I would say is electrolytes, for example. So when people first start fasting, especially if they're also maybe lowering their carbs, they're trying to improve their insulin sensitivity, you know, your body's gonna shed a lot of water, like a lot. Especially when you just start and along with that water can come like your loss of sodium and other electrolytes. Magnesium's definitely part of that whole overall picture there too, and it's, it's really good that you're, you're, you're taking your magnesium glycinate, but magnesium isn't the whole story. So there's sodium and potassium as well. They're also important. Sometimes our muscles just ache. You know, the, the, there's fatigue, there's headaches, there's even feeling just generally off during those first few weeks. I know, Anne Marie, when I first started, it felt like it's like growing pains. You're going through this vortex of just discomfort because your body's not used to it. If you go your whole life eating a certain way, it's very expected-- Well, I didn't expect it, but now in hindsight, it's totally expected that you'd feel off and you're going up and down, and a lot of that can be related to electrolyte shifts rather than just all fasting. And another possibility Is they-- your metabolism is just changing in ways your body's not used to yet. So for example, like when your, your insulin levels begin to come down and your body becomes better at accessing stored fat, there's a lot of adapt-- like adaptations happening.

Barry Conrad
Like, so like BTS, there's, there's transitions that can feel really weird, like really strange for p- people, and it's one of the reasons some people sort of re- report feeling like amazing straight away, and then other people go through this like, as I said, like a vortex or a short period of, of discomfort before everything settles. So you, you also mentioned, Anne Marie, having... Y- like struggling to lose weight with other approaches and insulin resistance. So if your metabolism like has spent many years operating under like high insulin levels, this is-- it might be one of the first times your body's actually making a, a meaningful or significant metabolic shift. And that doesn't necessarily explain your muscles being sore directly, but it is a reminder that your body is adapting to a completely different way of fueling itself.

And one thing I'd also think about is whether anything else has changed too. So are you, are you walking more than you used to? Are you sleeping differently? Are you taking the stairs more often, even carrying the groceries or doing yard work? You know, all those things can surprisingly like leave you more sore if you are becoming more active without noticing it. Like are you working out more? Because you're losing weight fairly quickly, I'd also encourage you to make sure you're eating enough high quality protein during that window. So protein's gonna give you the amino acids your body needs to recover, to repair, and it's one of the most important nutrients to prioritize overall, like while you're fasting. Especially, you know, if preserving muscle is one of your goals, which it absolutely, you know, we all need to do that. Other than that, hydration is a big one, Anne Marie. So even just increasing your fluids, it's gonna make, y- you making sure you're getting enough sodium, it's gonna make a massive difference how those sore muscles feel. I would like add a like, like a note of caution, I guess. If, if the soreness becomes more severe, if it's getting more serious, it's you're getting swelling, you're getting a fever, it doesn't improve, I would definitely check with your doctor. We're not doctors. We don't profess to be that. You know, definitely check with your doctor, health practitioner. New symptoms are always worth discussing for sure, especially if they're persistent, you know? And but if it's mild muscle soreness during the first couple of weeks, I'd be-- I put my, my money on looking at hydration, electrolytes, protein, giving your body just a bit more time to adapt. 'Cause one thing I've learnt about IF is that those first few weeks can be like it's just a period of adjustment. Now I feel amazing, but at the, at, at the start I didn't. So hunger changes, energy changes, digestion changes. Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
That was amazing and overwhelmingly comprehensive in a good way. Um, yeah, you, you nailed everything.

I will s- I-- those were my main thoughts as well, that I think detox is a very real thing and we should support it. I don't know necessarily that this is a, a sign of that. I agree about the electrolytes and that it's more about the electri- ele- electrolyte balance, so it's not just magnesium. You need magnesium, potassium, sodium. So around here we love LMNT. If you go to drinkLMNT.com/ifpodcast, you can get a free sample pack with your order. That's gonna give you the electrolytes you need and the ratios that you need to properly, properly support your body.

So that could be very helpful. I will talk about the magnesium. I totally forgot that this question was on here today, 'cause I was talking earlier about the magnesium with the Hyman Dell thing. So one of the things with magnesium is-- the good thing is people are, are becoming more and more aware about the importance of magnesium, and at the same time, there are so many magnesiums on the market, it can be really hard to know what you're getting.

It can be hard to know what form. So like, again, it looks like you got recommended magnesium glycinate specifically. I made Magnesium 8 so that you would get multiple forms of magnesium, so then that, that provides basically a ton of chances and avenues and ways for the magnesium to get into your cells. So I would definitely recommend, I, I mean, I don't know which one you're taking, but I would move beyond just one form and get a magnesium blend. So Magnesium 8 obviously is what I recommend for that, and for that, go to avalonx.us, and the coupon code IFPODCAST will get you a discount on that. But either way, I l- I li- like, like Barry was saying at the end, you know, time can also, can also be telling. Like you might, you might find that this resolves on its own. If it doesn't go away, then yes, definitely check with a doctor. Hopefully one who is-- oh yeah, 'cause her doctor is IF... This is the one. He recommended it. So, so yes. So ask him. Ask him his thoughts. Or her. I mean, I totally made an assumption there. Ask your doctor, who may be a male or female, their, their thoughts. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So today's restaurant-- Oh, so the purpose of this part of the show, friends, I'm just so excited, I'm like going straight into it, is that the benefits of fasting are not just from the fasting. They are equally, I will say that, equally from the eating as well, if not more so, because you, if you fast forever and never eat, you will die. Just saying.

So we like to, to honor that and, uh, profile restaurants and talk about how we would break our fast there. So I picked this week's restaurant, and Barry-- Okay, so Barry, I'm gonna send you the link, but before I do, I'm gonna tell you first like what the restaurant is, and then I'm gonna tell you something crazy that they kinda do, that they kinda went viral for. I don't mean crazy in a judgmental way. Okay. So it's a steakhouse. It's in Florida. I'll tell you the name in a second. The steakhouse itself, so For, they've been around for 20 years, and they are a private chef company. So they're a team of chefs that provide full service, private chef-driven live, a, a private chef-driven live kitchen. So they're very, like, hands-on. They're Miami's oldest and most respected private chef company, and they typically cater to South Florida's refined epicureans. There's a nice word, like Atlantean. So, um, but guess what they do, like, one Monday a month now?

Barry Conrad
What?

Melanie Avalon
They have a special thing that you can go eat there and-

Barry Conrad
Give me a hint. Give me a hint. Give me a hint. Give me a hint

Melanie Avalon
... Okay, so it has to do with how you show up, what you're wearing.

Barry Conrad
Oh, what is it?

Melanie Avalon
So now they have once a month, you can dine there naked.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. Okay, wow. Okay, wowsers, wowsers.

Melanie Avalon
Curveball, right?

Barry Conrad
Curveball. Okay.

Melanie Avalon
Apparently, it's completely legal. It's completely legal thanks to... So the s- the actual bar- the, the staff is all clothed, but for this event... And they, they... It's private, so it's not like you're gonna go to the restaurant during this and, like, see na- people naked. I guess it's, it's an experience for if, if you wanna, you know, eat naked.

What's funny is... So I have a few questions b- before... Oh, so the restaurant is called... I'll send it to you. The menu looks great. The restaurant is called ironically enough, not that it's not classy, I probably shouldn't say that. It's called Class Soiree Steakhouse.

So here is their... And it's C-L-A-S-S. I'm not sure what that stands for. I should check.

Barry Conrad
I was not expecting you to hit me with this restaurant tonight. Hit the listeners and everyone out there. It's like, wow.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Okay. So, oh, and look what, look what their tagline is, "We have the meat." I love that.

So they're... It's very, like, fine dining and nice and intimate, no pun intended. So my two questions here though for you, Barry, before we look at the menu. Number one, I literally... Okay, I understand that there's, like, cultures or there's, like, places you can go, like naked beaches, naked communities, naked restaurants, and I can see, like, why people... I actually just had a friend who, like, went to one. I mean, that could be interesting. Like, I'm... I mean, I, I don't think I would like to do it, but, but I, I have no interest in, like, dining naked. That just sounds, like... I just, I just... That sounds horrible to me. Like, horrible. What do you think? For me personally, I would not be, like-

Barry Conrad
You wouldn't do it?

Melanie Avalon
No. Mm-mm.

Barry Conrad
Is there any dollar amount someone could pay you to do it?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, definitely.

Barry Conrad
Yeah?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, for sure. I'm honest. But I just... I don't want to. I would not sign up for this otherwise. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I'm not saying... Like, I'm not an exhibitionist, but I... The only reason why I wouldn't do it is because I'm not a dainty eater. I'm very messy, admittedly, and I, I fear I would just spill lots of things on things.

Melanie Avalon
Like food everywhere?

Barry Conrad
And could be hot things, cold things, and I just don't wanna damage things. So d- use your imagination.

But other than that, I w- I'm not, like, a, like, I don't... I'm very proud of my body, but I, I just think in this setting, I don't think it's the best situation, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I feel like I, I would just be so distracted and, and I'll also, I don't wanna speak for, like, the entire female population, but I feel like we're already, like, we feel like we eat and get bloated and s- I would just, I would... It just sounds mm-mm, no, mm-mm.

I don't even like eating with my clothes on, like, and sometimes so... I mean, I love eating with my clothes on. What am I saying? Sometimes I ... Like, I would, when I'm out socially, I would rather, like, be drinking and everything than, like, eating, but I do love eating. I'm, like, talking in circles.

Barry Conrad
That's the soundbite. That's funny. That's funny.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Website looks beautiful. It looks awesome. Let's go to the our menu. Let's go to-

Melanie Avalon
And again, it's like a menu we would love so... But I saw a title. I, I'm always, like, collecting restaurants, and I saw a title, and it was like, "Eat naked at this restaurant in Florida." I was like, "Yes." Perfect. Okay, did you... Do you... Are you at the salads section?

Barry Conrad
I am.

Melanie Avalon
Would you like to have... Oh, they're, they also focus on, like, organic stuff and yeah. Uh, would you like a salad?

Barry Conrad
I think I'm gonna skip the salad for this one 'cause I feel like there's a lot of meat there, pun intended.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so no salad. You can add bacon lardons to your salad. That's funny. I feel like I haven't seen that word before on a menu. Lard- lardons.

Barry Conrad
What is a lardon?

Melanie Avalon
I don't... I- Is that, is that, like, pieces of bacon fat? That's what it sounds like. Wait.

Barry Conrad
I've never heard that word before, ever, in life.

Melanie Avalon
Are small, thick-cut matchsticks or cubes of bacon. Oh. Sounds like bacon fat.

Barry Conrad
Well, there you go.

Melanie Avalon
Mm, I love bacon.

Barry Conrad
Same.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so would you like a grilled s- Oh, yeah, so I guess we can look at, like, the grilled steaks and chops and seafood and poultry. Do you see that they have a meat board?

Barry Conrad
Oh, Melanie, that's... My eyes almost genetically just went there.

Melanie Avalon
I know. No, it's so true. Me too. It's like, wow. I feel like we have to get that for the table, right?

Barry Conrad
It's, like, 60 ounces. Like, it's just b- like, two lobster tail, two king crab legs, churrasco, churrasco lamb chops, chorizo sausage, pork chops, filet mignon with dipping sauces.

That is heaven on a massive board.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That's amazing.

Barry Conrad
That would have to take the whole table over, right?

Melanie Avalon
It sounds, it sounds so good. So we're, we're just basically gonna... I don't even know how to approach this. We get that, and then we, like, go from there maybe. Do we add anything to it?

Like, do you see anything el- I feel like this is gonna become, like, a communal thing, like a meat fest.

Barry Conrad
I think that's gonna be us picking at the meat board, but we should then get the seafood below, you know? 'Cause it's a lot of meat.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so that one comes with lobster and crab already. I'm looking at... I'm just seeing if there's anything I would wanna, like-

Barry Conrad
There's already filet min- mignon. There's... Oh, there's... What about the Cajun ribeye?

Melanie Avalon
What is churras- Is it churrasco steak? Correct.

What... I'm looking this up Latin American thin cuts of beef, traditionally skirt steak marinated in citrus and garlic. Oh, that sounds nice. Yeah, I don't even know what to do because I- maybe add some chicken?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, actually that's a good idea. There's no chicken there, so we could go down to the poultry and get some-

Melanie Avalon
And some salmon.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. That's a good call.

Go to town. That sounds g- that sounds like a great night, and then definitely some sides. I don't know about you, but I, for me, I would love some... I love sauteed mushrooms 'cause mushrooms are, like, super low cal, but they're just really delicious to me. They're really good. I can eat, like, pounds of that. I do love a truffle mac and cheese just to have there to pick at.

Melanie Avalon
Mushrooms, the oyster mushroom, no... Oh, o- oyster. You know the oyster mushroom intermittent fasts?

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Is that the one that's a carnivore? Let me see. Hold on.

Barry Conrad
A carniv- carnivore s-

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it, like... Let me see if I got... Let me make sure that it might not be the oyster one. It might be something else.

Yes, okay, so they basically trap and kill microscopic roundworms called nematodes to supplement their diet. They eat, uh, let's see. Why they eat meat. I wonder if they're eating other things as well, but if they're just eating those, then, you know, they gotta catch it, and then they gotta wait again. I-

Barry Conrad
Do you want anything from the sides? Anything there?

Melanie Avalon
No.

Barry Conrad
Okay, we'll s- scoop on down to desserts.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, desserts and sweets. Okay. Don't tell me yet what you want. How many things do you want from it? Wait, I'm gonna guess everything. I'm gonna guess that you want... Hold on. I'm looking.

Barry Conrad
I'm doing a quick scan. Hold on. Okay, I feel like I know what I want.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, this is hard.

Barry Conrad
There's lots of clues there for you to guess, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I think you want, like... I mean, okay. I mean, you definitely want the white chocolate mousse creme brulee.

Barry Conrad
Uh-huh.

Melanie Avalon
Is the cheesecake martini... Oh, that's an actual martini. So you're probably, I'm guessing you're gonna wanna sip on that.

Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm.

Melanie Avalon
And then do you want one more?

Barry Conrad
Uh-huh.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, man, which one is it? I'm, like, torn between two, which is not that hard 'cause there's only three left, but I'm torn be- do you want the donuts?

Barry Conrad
Yep.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes.

Barry Conrad
You got it. That's it.

Melanie Avalon
Guys, I'm so good at this now.

Barry Conrad
I know. It's, I'm very predictable, though. I'm a creature of habit when it comes to food.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I mean, you are. You are 'cause I know you. Like, I'm saying, like, a random... I think you have to, like, you gotta learn your-

Barry Conrad
Do you want anything from the previous sections as a dessert?

Melanie Avalon
For dessert? Yes.

So I will, for dessert, I will, like, whatever was the best, I will get more of. I probably would get more, um, probably more, like, filet mignon. Maybe I would get the filet... Oh, maybe I would get the filet medallions. That would be a nice little dessert 'cause they're, like, in little medallions. Comes with mushroom and onions, and you could have that, but not really 'cause we would be at the dessert point, so.

Barry Conrad
I was gonna say, I'd, I kinda un-see the whole, like unthink about the whole nude thing.

Melanie Avalon
I know, right? That's what I'm thinking about the whole time.

Barry Conrad
'Cause also, like, if people aren't used to doing it, like, you would be eating, but then also, like, half of your mind will be thinking about your nudity for a lot of people, and then half of your mind will be thinking about the food, or maybe more than half, you know?

Melanie Avalon
And it's like, it's a group thing. Like, it's other people there. Like, there are strangers there with you.

Barry Conrad
What kind of chairs are there? Are they... That people can turn around and they can just see your, see your, uh, your peach just right there?

Melanie Avalon
Can you imagine being a server there? That would be so interesting.

I wonder, like, this is my question. For the servers who are working there, 'cause I think they started this relatively recently. Like, it ha- they haven't always been doing this, so for the servers there, it's like, "Who wants Monday shift?" Like, that, like I, I just wonder how they presented this to the servers. Like, "Okay, guys, we're gonna start doing this on Mondays."

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's different, you know?

I mean, I, I wouldn't, like, n- never say never. It would be exciting to say that you'd done it, but I just kind of, I just know for myself I'll spill so much stuff. That's... I always do.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just like clothes too much. I mean, I don't like clothes, but I, I... No, I'm, I'm not. Um, okay. Do you see a, uh, a wine or, sorry, a, a drink that you would like?

Barry Conrad
I would get, like, a nice pinot noir, I think, bottle for the table 'cause of the lots of meat there, and then is there a cocktail that I'd have as well? Let's have, hmm, I don't s- I don't see a cocktail, but I'll just, I think just a, like, a nice bottle of pinot noir would be great.

Oh, by the way, there's appetizers there. There's broiled oysters.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, how did we miss that? We missed it. Oh my gosh, we did.

Okay, guys, we're going back. We're going back. Okay. Appetizers. They have a shrimp cocktail. I'm getting a shrimp cocktail. Oh, they, uh, are you getting the oysters?

Barry Conrad
I had one of those today, by the way.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Was it good?

Barry Conrad
It was so good.

Melanie Avalon
Was it while you were filming the podcast?

Barry Conrad
Mm-hmm.

Melanie Avalon
Who did you interview?

Barry Conrad
It was very, it was very, very yum. An actor called Ben Lawson. He was in Firefly Lane and Modern Family and The Good Place. He, he's really cool.

Yeah, but we, he said he didn't, like his dietary was like, "I don't eat, eat, I don't eat a lot of meat anymore, but I love seafood." So we just had, like, oysters, shrimp cocktail, and lots of other things.

Melanie Avalon
Does he live here? Is, he's Australian?

Barry Conrad
He's, he's Aussie, and he's been here for, like, 20 years.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

Barry Conrad
You'd like him a lot, actually.

Melanie Avalon
Congrats.

Barry Conrad
Thanks. Is there anything that... There's mussels there. There's-

Melanie Avalon
Oh, mussels. That was something that... Wasn't that something we discussed? I have not had mussels before.

Barry Conrad
Okay, Mel, you know this has to change, right? You have to have it. It's so good. It's so yum.

Melanie Avalon
Uh-huh.

Barry Conrad
They're like... You're not convinced, but they're really, really-

Melanie Avalon
I don't, yeah. I mean, whenever I think of mussels, I, I just see them washed up on the beach, and they don't look very appetizing.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna save my oyster spiel for next week's episode, which I'll bring up. Please remind me to.

Melanie Avalon
I will. Awesome. Oh, there's also caviar.

Barry Conrad
There's, oh, love caviar.

Melanie Avalon
I might get for dessert, then this might change things. I might get, like, the shrimp cocktail for dessert. But, um, okay.

So again, this is Class Soiree, where I will not be going on the Monday, one Monday a month. Oh, and I'll tell you next week.

Barry Conrad
You're saying that now. It could happen.

Melanie Avalon
I could use for the wine list, I could use my new wine app that I've created, so I'll tell you about that next week. Guys, go to purevine.com. No, sorry, purevine.app, P-U-R-V-I-N-E dot app. It will solve all your problems with trying to find organic wine.

Okay. This was amazing. Listeners, friends, thank you so much for all of your questions. The show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode492. They will have links to all the things that we talked about and a full transcript, so definitely check that out.

And you can get all of the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. You can follow us on Instagram. We are IFPodcast. I am MelanieAvon. Barry is Barry_Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
That's it. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening to us, and we appreciate all of you so much, and we'll catch you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Bye.

Barry Conrad
Bye.

Speaker 3
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joiner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.