Welcome to Episode 493 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. 

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

 
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 493 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions@ifpodcast.com or by going to ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 493 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. Hey, everyone. I'm doing great. It is a very, very, very, very, very warm day in New York, which is Melanie's favorite ever, and it's, like, triple digits kind of vibe. So yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Did you know I actually did a, I recorded an episode yesterday with Bill Gifford for a book called Hotwire all about heat exposure. Did you know that cities, like urban environments, create their own weather?

Barry Conrad
What?

Melanie Avalon
Like, because of how they concentrate the heat and everything, so they can be, like... So, like, he used Atlanta as an example, but I bet New York is the same. So Atlanta can be, like downtown and metro area can be 14 degrees, up to 14 degrees hotter than not that area, and it can create thunderstorms from it.

Barry Conrad
That is really interesting. I had no idea that a city, like the infrastructure of a city could have such a big effect on the weather. That's crazy. Did it surprise you?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it, it is surprising. It's, uh, it also makes sense. Like, it's so hot here. I'm like, okay, I feel, I feel validated.

I love that he uses Atlanta as the example city for heat being a problem, like like in cities.

Barry Conrad
Speaking of, have you been to Texas before? Have we talked about this?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Austin quite a few times.

Barry Conrad
But what about, have you been to Dallas or Houston?

Melanie Avalon
I've driven through them, or not, not driven through them. Whatever you drive through when you drive through Texas to get to California and back. So I don't know, whatever's on, on route.

Barry Conrad
I can't answer that geographically 'cause I'm not American enough yet, but I will say that-

Melanie Avalon
Excuses. Excuses

Barry Conrad
... Yeah, excuses, but it's, it's super hot there. If you think Atlanta's warm, you ain't felt nothing yet.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, it's dry heat there. That, wh- oh, which, yeah, right?

Barry Conrad
Well, you basically, I remember getting out of a car in Dallas and just walking to the entrance of this building and just sweating. Like I was drenched immediately.

Melanie Avalon
Did I tell you about the, the sweating thing?

Barry Conrad
No.

Melanie Avalon
I've been telling everybody this fun fact. So do you know why sweat cools you down, or how?

Barry Conrad
I guess the, my understanding is you sweat, and so the liquid evaporates, the water evaporates, right? And then you're cool. Is that why?

Melanie Avalon
Wait, you did know? So, okay, you did know that? That it's like, that, that it literally it, it requires evaporation to cool you down.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you, you knew that?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Are you sure I didn't tell you that?

Barry Conrad
No, I knew that.

Melanie Avalon
Oh. I thought that was, like, the most mind-blowing thing, 'cause I thought sweat cooled you down w- and so that's why humidity feels hotter because the sweat never evaporates, so it never cools you down.

Barry Conrad
It's an everlasting swamp.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I thought it was like, you know, it's like water, so it's, like, cooling you off. I didn't know it ha- had to evaporate to cool you down.

Barry Conrad
It's very interesting though, either way. I mean, I wish, you know what? I wish somebody would invent a air conditioned, like air-conditioned clothing. That's just something that I always think about.

Melanie Avalon
Mm.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, just cool all the time.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. The, well, the closest I have... Have I talked about my Hi- my Hilub blanket?

Barry Conrad
Is this the one that is cold when you sleep with it?

Melanie Avalon
Sort of. I mean, I do have, like, a cooling mattress, but the Hilub blanket, it's made of some sort of material that just wants to perpetually exist at, like, 60-something degrees.

So if you're hot, it, like, pulls... Wait. If you're hotter than that, then it, like, pulls heat out. If you're cooler than that, it, like, warms you up.

Barry Conrad
That's amazing. I mean, I feel like there's so mu- there's gotta, there's gotta be more inventions that have already solved these problems but they're not out on the market yet, right? Surely.

Melanie Avalon
I mean, maybe.

Barry Conrad
You'd be first in line. I can, I can already see you. Like...

Melanie Avalon
I just don't know how the South got established because it's so hot here. Like, who came here? What were they thinking? What were... In Australia, is it dry heat?

Barry Conrad
It gets pretty hot in Australia, I'm not gonna lie, and it's not always dry, but New York, for example, and Dallas, that, that's next level. It's pretty, it's pretty, pretty hot.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I'm not about it. But by the time people listen to this it'll be September, so must be nice, guys listening now. Must be nice for you.

Barry Conrad
Must be real good. How is your week?

Melanie Avalon
It's good. I, I'm trying to decide. There's so many things I wanna talk about, but, um, I'll keep it short.

Uh, okay, really fun, really quick fun fact. You know how I've been, like, lucid dreaming or working on it? I have a new, I have a, a new one. I'm gonna start giving you- Have you tried yet? I'm gonna start giving you reality checks.

Barry Conrad
Tell me what something exciting that happened in your lucid dream adventures.

Melanie Avalon
I'm not telling you the lucid dream adventures. I'm just telling you how to, like, get there.

Barry Conrad
I definitely was aware that I was dreaming last night or this morning, so I don't know if... Is that lucid dreaming? Yes.

Melanie Avalon
And then were you like, "Oh my gosh, let me do all the things," or were you just, like, kind of aware, but you didn't really take charge?

Barry Conrad
I didn't, I didn't control the dream, but I was aware that I was dreaming and having fun in the, in the reality of it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Were- Okay. Did it last a while?

Barry Conrad
Well, very, very random. One of the people that made an appearance was Meghan Trainor, the singer, and we were at a cafe, and she was sitting there, and she pulled off her face, like the back of her head, and revealed, like, an alien, but, like, a funny looking alien face, and I kind of laughed. It wasn't scary. It was just, like, that's hilarious.

And people all around were, like, pulling off them- their faces, like, kind of like... It was very strange.

Melanie Avalon
That's like a meta- Yeah, that's nice. It's... Yeah, that's wild.

Barry Conrad
But it wasn't... It sounds, like, horrific, but it was actually quite funny. I, I remember laughing in the dream 'cause, like, what are these faces?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. It was... So it was not scary, guys, so I'm gonna start giving you the reality checks. Remember I told you to look at your hands?

Barry Conrad
I didn't do that. I didn't do it.

Melanie Avalon
You gotta start doing it during the day all the time so it's like... But I have a new favorite one that works really well for me.

Barry Conrad
What is it?

Melanie Avalon
So, you know, when you read a word and then you read it again, it still says the same thing in real life. In your dreams, if you read something and then you read it again, it'll be different.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. The brain's not good at, like, keeping the linguistics logic flowing. It's kind of like ChatGPT. You know how, like, chat makes artwork, and then, like, the letters are, like, all messed up?

So, so yeah, so, like, that... 'Cause that's how I realized I was dreaming the other night, 'cause I read something, and then I was like, "Wait. Let me read this again." And then I read it again, and it was different, and I was like, "Whoa." And then I read it again. It was different again. And then I was like, "I'm dreaming." And then I did my... I stabilized my environment, and then I was off to the races.

Barry Conrad
I was literally about to say, it sounds like a AI program gone wrong, like wonky, and it's saying, "Sorry, it was my mistake. I got that wrong," and warped something.

Melanie Avalon
Isn't that funny? Isn't it funny how the brain can do, like, certain things, but then it, like, really struggles with other things, like, when creating the dream world?

Barry Conrad
You experienced this. This, this happened.

Melanie Avalon
You're g- It's gonna happen to you now too, but you gotta get into the habit, so you gotta, like... You gotta get, you gotta get into the habit of l- of rereading words to check.

Barry Conrad
In the dream, I'll see if I can see any signs on the wall or any- or somewhere and just read it, see what happens.

Melanie Avalon
But you have to, you have to, like, do it in real life so then, like, in the dream, you just naturally do it out of habit. Otherwise, you won't, 'cause you won't remember to do it.

Barry Conrad
What did you read? Do you remember any of the words that you read that changed?

Melanie Avalon
No, but they were real words. It wasn't like chat where it's, like, random alien scribble. It was, like, real words. They just kept changing.

Barry Conrad
This is... You know, sooner or later, you're gonna... you can write a book about this.

Melanie Avalon
I literally might. I've been going down the rabbit hole watching all the YouTube videos, and I was like, "You know what?

I should..." Literally, I probably watched, like, an hour and a half of lucid dreaming videos last night, so I should probably... Yeah, maybe I should do that, create videos.

Barry Conrad
Have, like, a lucid dream specialist. Is that a thing, you know, on the-

Melanie Avalon
On the show. Yeah. One of the things I tend to do is I tend to... When I realize I'm dreaming, I go around and I tell everybody that they're dreaming, and nobody really believes me.

Barry Conrad
In the dream, you run around saying, "You're dreaming. You're dreaming. Wake up. Wake up"?

Melanie Avalon
I'm like, "Listen." Yeah. Last time I, I went around, 'cause I had just learned the stabilize the environment skill. So when I realized I was dreaming, I started going around to everybody. I was like, "Listen, you gotta stabilize your environment. Otherwise, you're gonna wake up. Got to do this, guys."

Barry Conrad
Did anybody entertain your request?

Melanie Avalon
Well, then people started disappearing, and so my theory in the dream, I was like, "Oh, see? They didn't stabilize the environment, so they woke up. They're gone. Bye."

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. I wish you could record this, like, record the actual dream somehow.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I thought there was something where they could... I thought I... There was technology they were working on that could do that. I remember hearing about that a while ago.

Barry Conrad
Isn't there something that can... and this could be completely wrong, like, record animals?

Melanie Avalon
Like their dreams?

Barry Conrad
Where did I see or hear this? Is this, is this real or not, like, dogs or, I don't know, like, imagery?

Melanie Avalon
The closest I remember is something about, I think, it was, like, reading minds. Like technol- It probably had to do with, like, the Elon Musk Mindlink stuff or whatever it's called.

Barry Conrad
Oh my. I don't even know what that is, but it sounds terrifying.

Melanie Avalon
It's like the integration with, like, AI into the mind. I think they're gonna be able to start, like, mapping people's... Like, what you're thinking, what you're seeing.

Barry Conrad
No.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I know. Bad idea. I would feel like that's an invasion of privacy. Maybe they already are doing that, honestly. Would not be surprised. Nothing would surprise me.

Barry Conrad
At this point, no.

Melanie Avalon
I know, but are we dreaming? Um, nope.

Barry Conrad
No, we're not. I'm, I'm reading words right now, and it's the same.

Melanie Avalon
And they're not changing.

Barry Conrad
Imagine if we were both dreaming and both in the same lucid dream, and, and we realized it was a dream.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I think about that.

I w- I wonder sometimes. I'm like, what if the dream world is, like, actually a real place and everybody's there, but you're, like... It's just so big that you don't run into... Well, that doesn't really make sense because I'm gonna do an experiment. Next time I see you in a dream, I'm gonna be like, "Barry, we're gonna talk about this tomorrow. Text me."

Barry Conrad
And then see if I text you?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That would be wild.

Barry Conrad
That'd be really... You'd hack the... You'd break through the matrix.

Melanie Avalon
Hack the system, I know. Then I would have to change some of my lucid dreaming habits if that happened.

Barry Conrad
There's so many rabbit holes I could jump on from this topic, but teleportation, time travel, lots of things.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I know.

Well, it's kind of like how people - I think we've talked about this - the fact that people will do, like, psychedelic drugs, and they'll have the same shared experience. That's where I'm like, that makes you think that people are going somewhere.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, 'cause how is that happening?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, 'cause how can they have the same... This, this pulls my mind. Like, how can people see the same... You know what I'm talking about? They see the same thing.

Barry Conrad
I do.

Melanie Avalon
Like, how is that possible? Unless their minds are, like, going somewhere. You know? Just saying. Yeah. Well, anything new with you or...?

Barry Conrad
You know, I'm, I'm still stuck in the, the dream/mind rabbit hole right, right now and trying to jump out of the vortex.

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna tell you, without it becoming a 15-minute tangent, I'm gonna tell you a little, like, tip or trick I learn every time. I learned one-- I learned another tip and trick, but I'm not gonna tell you now.

Barry Conrad
Not yet?

Melanie Avalon
No. I'll wait for next week.

Barry Conrad
Okay. I can't wait to hear it.

Melanie Avalon
Should we jump into intermittent fasting related stuff?

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
The study I'm reading today is called Protein Intake in Healthy Males Exposed to an Appetite Modulating Whey-Derived Peptide Hydrolysate. So this-- I thought this was really interesting.

It isn't specifically about intermittent fasting, but g-come with me. Go with me. It looks at something we're always talking a lot about, and that is appetite, and specifically, it certainly it's, it's about occurring dairy protein actually influence what and how much w- Like, it, it basically is it's, it's asking can dairy proteins influence what and how much we eat, and this is something we talk about a lot in terms of protein and satiety. And the researchers of the study recruited 22 healthy men between 20 and 41 years old. So sorry, ladies, this is about the men this week.

Melanie Avalon
We gotta support the men in our lives.

Barry Conrad
We do. The average age was 27, and they were one point seven six meters tall on average. Mel, do you know what that is in feet?

Melanie Avalon
Meters? I can look it up. Wait, so one point seven six meters. It is, it is five seven.

Barry Conrad
You love that. Correct. So the average age is t- 27, and they were one point seven six meters tall on average. They weighed about 76.8 kgs and had an average BMI of 24.6. So this was a group of pretty healthy dudes.

Each participant came into the lab on three separate occasions after fasting overnight. So they all ate the same breakfast, then they were given either a whey-derived peptide, a casein-derived peptide, or placebo. So later, they were served a buffet-style lunch, like a buffet, where they could eat ba-basically until they were, like, comfortably full, and the researchers also tracked everything they ate for the rest of that day. So where it gets interesting is here. So not-- neither of the supplements made the participants eat more overall. There wasn't a massive jump in food intake, but one of the whey-derived peptides did increase protein intake by about 23 grams across the day compared with the placebo, and that was statistically pretty significant. That's roughly the protein you get from, say, like, 100 grams of cooked chicken breast. What makes that even more interesting is the participants didn't actually feel any hungrier. Their hunger scores, fullness scores, and appetite ratings were basically the same the whole way through. So they basically naturally ended up eating more protein without reporting that they felt any different. The researchers were also measuring a bunch of the appetite hormones, so they ex- they expected to see changes in ghrelin, which most people know as the hunger hormone and-- but they actually didn't. Instead, they found increases in GLP-1 before lunch, and that almost sounds backwards because GLP-1, you know, a lot of people associate that with reducing appetite and weight loss and whatnot. So the authors think that they think it may have slowed stomach emptying, which delayed the effects of these peptides until later in the day, which is exactly when they saw people choosing more protein, which is so interesting. And for all of us to tie it back to IF, intermittent fasting, I reckon it's that appetite. It's clearly about more than just feeling hungry. I mean, fasting changes hormones, meal timing changes hormones, and now this study pretty mu- it suggests, like, certain food components might also influence the choices we make when we do finally break our fast. And of course, like, let's keep it in perspective. Yes, it's a smaller pilot study. It's just guys. It wasn't any women or older adults or people with poor appetite or obesity. So I don't think this changes anything about how we approach fasting, but what it does do to me, I think, is add another piece to the situation that shows that what we eat, you know, really can influence not just how much we eat, but what our bodies naturally seem to want and wanna reach for and wanna crave. And I think that's really interesting direction for future research. Mel, what do you think about this?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So is, is basically one of the takeaways... 'Cause normally we're talking about-- 'cause when I first heard it, I was like, "Oh, they're gonna be seeing if taking in these peptides makes people eat less." That's what I thought they were gonna be talking about.

But it sounds like instead they're talking about people can take in more protein and not feel as full, so, like, the opposite.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, which, which is, wh-which is really interesting to what we also typically hear about satiety, you know?

Melanie Avalon
So it's more, it's more... Oh, yeah, so it's more-- 'cause, like, one of their sentences, they said that it's promising for people with anorexia. So, like, which is, I mean, an extreme form, but it sounds like something like this is helpful for, like, people struggling to eat a lot of protein because they get too full.

This study was finding that they took, they took in, you know, substantially more protein, but they ate the same as people who didn't. So it was like a way to get protein but not feel, like, super full. Is that, is that right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly. I also did think that it was the whole concept of slowing stomach emptying. I've ne- I don't think I've heard that or read about that or Thought about that concept

Melanie Avalon
That's one of the main ways that the GLP-1 agonist works, which is like from day one, a reason I was like, "I can never take that," because the idea of like slowed motility is terrifying to me. So I have no interest in that. But um-

Barry Conrad
So what? It slows, it, it slows down the emptying of the stomach, so is that why people just can't eat as much? They don't get hungry?

Melanie Avalon
And are like just fuller longer and, yeah, like slows that process down.

Barry Conrad
I also really f- I also thought it was interesting how some people were given a placebo, so AKA I guess something that is, this is meant to do something, but is not. It's the, uh, I guess it's the same thing as when people... Have you seen that, um, there's a video going around on social media, well, there's several actually, not just one, but where a group of girls go out to drink and they're served like shots or something, and some of them don't have alcohol.

Melanie Avalon
Do they think that they're drunk?

Barry Conrad
Yeah. It, it's just, it's really crazy how that can happen based on just the environment or what they think they're doing.

Melanie Avalon
I would love to see if I would be susceptible to that. I really feel like, I don't know, I don't think it would work for me.

Barry Conrad
You don't think so?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Like, if I was like having my wine and somebody switched it out with non-alcoholic wine, like would I... I don't know. I think I would know. But maybe not. I've wondered that for a long time, actually.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how much, I mean, so much of what we have and take in, I guess, again, it's like influenced by environment. Like if, it's like when you watch team sports, like everyone just gets on this euphor- this euphoric high, just like the collective energy.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, in college, did, did I m- did I tell you what I tried to do in college with this?

Barry Conrad
No.

Melanie Avalon
So my girlfriend and I were social chairs of our film fraternity, and so we were always the ones throwing the party and buying all the alcohol and stuff. And so one party we were like, "You know what? We should just, like, not put as much alcohol in the drinks, especially like in the second half of the night. Like, are they gonna know? Like, like, we'll put some, but we tried to save money, basically.

I feel like it didn't... Well, you know what? The party got shut down pretty early, so maybe I didn't have enough time to test the theory. I do know one person said that they thought the drink wasn't that strong. I have like a memory of them saying that. But that aside, yeah, I agree about the collective vibe and placebo effect and role of environment.

Barry Conrad
Well, do you want to, do we have anything we wanna jump into in terms of our amazing audience? Any particular discussions they may have had?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So today's episode, I posted a post in my Facebook group, IF Biohackers, check it out, and I asked what has been the hardest and easiest thing about fasting.

And we got so many answers that I decided it would be a fun, we can go through and read what you guys think is the hardest and easiest thing and maybe provide some suggestions or help or if we agree or tell our own thoughts. So shall we do it?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump in. Look at what they're saying here.

Melanie Avalon
So this is gonna be, this is actually, I haven't read these yet. I'm not prepped. I wanted to be surprised. And I'm just gonna go in order. And I actually don't know what order this was, like if this was by timeline or what, but here we go.

Okay. So Kim said, "In the beginning, the hardest was to stop eating earlier in the evening. I had a terrible habit of snacking until bedtime." Okay, so she had a terrible habit of snacking until bedtime. "Second hardest was swapping out my coffee with creamer to black coffee, but now I prefer it black." Okay. So thoughts on this. This, okay, so Kim, this is why my eating window for me has to be where I eat until bedtime, because I strongly dislike stopping eating in the evening and then not being able to snack until bedtime. I just, nope. So that's so my solution was I, uh, eat until bedtime, but do you have any thoughts or anything with the snacking and the fasting?

Barry Conrad
You know what, Mel? I have to echo your sentiments.

I told someone this earlier, actually late last week, actually, and they asked me about what I do in terms of diet or training, and I told them about intermittent fasting, and they said, "When do you do your eating?" And I said, "I prefer to do it in the evening, because it's just, that's the best window." I don't, if I had to do it in the morning and wait all day till the next day, I'd struggle.

Melanie Avalon
It literally sounds miserable to me. But some people love it. Like some people, that's their jam. No pun intended.

Barry Conrad
I think I have done it. Yeah, no, I think I've done it for maybe medical reasons, but not because of like, "Yes, this is awesome. Let's do it," you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. The only time in recent history I remember doing this was when I did the Zoe muffin thing, 'cause then I had to like eat the muffin and then I had to like not eat for like an hour or two hours or something, or three hours.

I don't even know. And then eat another muffin. It was so hard.

Barry Conrad
I bet you loved that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. It was so hard. So Kim, we feel you. But it sounds like Kim, because she, she said that in the beginning the hardest, so I guess she, um, dealt with that, so congratulations.

Second hardest, swapping out coffee with creamer to black coffee. I feel like so many people go through the coffee journey where they, you know, it's hard for them to cut out the creamer and go black. What was your coffee journey like?

Barry Conrad
It's so funny, Mel, because I feel, I, I always associate this with, and please don't get mad at me, but I always associate this with females. Sorry. I just, like the, the cream... Sorry, ladies. Sorry, sorry, sorry. It's just like-

Melanie Avalon
Actually, that's kind of accurate now that I think about it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. My mom said the same thing.

It was hard when she started fasting. Like now she's still used to dip into the creamer or whatever. My coffee journey, I didn't get into coffee until later on, but when I did, I just kind of I went from one extreme to the other, into like really sweet kind of like mac- caramel macchiatos and all that kind of stuff into straight black coffee

Melanie Avalon
So you were doing it?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I... That's, it's more like just that was, that was my intro, but then I just like didn't even like it. Before I started fasting, I l- I liked black coffee.

I didn't like, you know, like didn't do it when I started fasting, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. I would actually be curious. That'd be a fun poll to see, like male versus female and, and just in general d- how many people went through the whole process.

I definitely went through... Trying to think. I actually just, I just set up a whole like welcome email list journey for Glow Coffee, which by the way, guys, perfect coffee for fasting. I'll circle back to that. But, um, o- in one of the emails, I talk about my coffee journey, which was that I didn't drink coffee until college, and then at the very beginning, I drank like all the coffee, and I did drink a lot of the creamer and all the flavors and all the stuff. And then I, I don't know when I went to straight black coffee. I guess when I went paleo.

Barry Conrad
Good old, good old paleo days.

Melanie Avalon
Good old pal- I mean, I'm still paleo, but I feel like the word is not really a thing anymore as much. I will say, friends, Glow Coffee, which I made to be the perfect fasting coffee because it's super high in antioxidants, it's organic, it's tested for over 70 problematic compounds, comes from a female-led initiative in Colombia, and it's a very lovely like light to medium roast, so it doesn't need... I mean, not that a darker roast requires creamer and such, but it's, it's very like refreshing and I think easier to drink black. Like it's a, it's a good coffee if you're trying to, you know, switch to black. So yeah, go to glowcoffeeco.com and use code IHavePodcast for a discount. Okay, shall we do the next person?

Barry Conrad
Yes. So now we have a comment from Amy, and Amy says, "The hardest part for me is the criticism I get from other people. Like others here, people tell me I'm depriving myself and starving to death and all that jazz. The easiest part is not having to plan my day around meals. It's very liberating, and when there's only one meal," ding, ding, ding, one meal, "I can just live life throughout the day instead of being fixated on food."

Melanie Avalon
Yes, and then Andrea or Andrea said back to Amy, she said, "Amy, you are so right about the planning. I see others around me constantly mapping out meals, when and where to eat if traveling, et cetera, et cetera, and it's exhausting." And then Amy said-

Barry Conrad
Then Amy says, "Completely. Most people can't make it through a few hours without having to pause for food time. It really is exhausting."

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So I definitely-- This is Melanie now. So I definitely, um, relate to both of these things, which, okay, the criticism from other people, yes. I have said for the longest time, and I still believe it, that the... Or I still, yeah, I still believe and still experience it, although it's getting easier now that intermittent fasting is becoming such a cultural thing. But people just, at least in the beginning, they just made it really hard because, like Amy said, they would say that it's not healthy or you're, you're starving or don't you need to eat to boost your metabolism or don't you need to eat like six or seven meals a day?

And at least for me, like when my mind is made up and I'm doing something, I, I, I'm, I'm pretty good at doing it. But then when you're getting taxed by other people and w- you know, we are social animals, so we look for social-- We want to do things that are socially approved of and accepted and so, yeah, the social backlash can be pretty, pretty difficult. Although, like I said, it really is way easier now. What do you think, Barry?

Barry Conrad
No, I 100% agree. Ev- every time I say that I fast, people fir- first of all don't react too badly, but then they, they ask how long. And I, when I tell them, you know, 20 hours a day, whenever it is, they freak out. They're, they cannot handle it. It's like, "What do you mean? That's not healthy. That can't be healthy. You're supposed to have breakfast. You're not eating enough food." But then it also doesn't make sense to them because they look at me and I'm fit and I'm not weak, and I'm like, you know, alive and have energy, but then they can't understand what the logic of how do you not eat for that time.

Do you know? It's, it's still a thing, but... And people can kind of change. You can have a great conversation with someone, and sometimes mid-conversation when they find out that I fast, it changes the vibe of the conversation. It's like this, this judgment like, okay. Like, just like you're, like it's a weird thing. It's so interesting to me. I don't know why it's such a big deal or why what anyone does should affect somebody so much in terms of their own body or their own health, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I, I could not agree more. And, and now I'm thinking, like when we're talking about the, the male versus females and the coffee and the creamer, I feel like the response can be similar reacting to men versus women. However, I think it's for different reasons. So like for women, like if a woman s- says that she's fasting, like there's such a diet culture surrounding females. Like it's very nor- like it's very normal and accepted that girls are always dieting and doing all the things. So I think when, I think in general, this is like a massive generalization, but I think when f- when females say they're fasting, there might be like this assumption that they're, it's disordered eating or that they're dieting or that it's really restrictive.

I feel like for men it would be more a concern like for maintaining their muscle m- Like they w- I think the concern would be more like, "Oh, are you sure you can actually get that much food that you need?" I don't know if that makes sense.

Barry Conrad
I wouldn't disagree. I mean, I think, yes, it's not 100% across the board, but I do think a lot of the time the majority of people have experienced when it comes to male and female, it's, it's sort of that, what you said.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Like I feel like, I feel like for women it's like, "Oh, okay.

She's got like an eating disorder or she's just dieting or..." But for men it's like, can they really? They, they need more for like muscle and s- and such.

Barry Conrad
It's so interesting, Mel, because I think like Often the-- y-you'll hear from people that often the hardest part isn't the fasting, it's everyone else in terms of, you know, um, dealing with other people's opinions and having to explain yourself to work or family dinners or whatnot. And I think everyone who's fasted long term or even short term has probably had this conversation.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Which is another reason, let me just plug all the things today, the dating app that I'm working on, Craving, friends, get on the email list at cravingdating.com.

It will have a filter for-- or, like, you will be able to put your fasting, if you fast or not. I mean, it's not all just about fasting, but that will be an option there. So then you can actually meet fellow intermittent fasters for dating if you so choose. And then the planning thing, oh my goodness. I feel like, I feel like your eyes get opened once you start doing intermittent fasting and you realize that you don't have to be eating twenty-four/seven, and then you start seeing everywhere, like Amy and Andre are saying, like, just how much people plan everything around food, like, all the time. Like, like they said, it's, like, exhausting, like, like, if you're traveling or you're working, like, when are we gonna eat? And like, all the-- like, it's such this whole thing that you just don't have to deal with anymore once you start fasting, which I love.

Barry Conrad
Me too.

Melanie Avalon
So Claudine says, "When I learned I shouldn't do it as much as I had been for years because of Hashimoto's." Hmm. Okay. So Hashimoto's is a autoimmune thyroid condition. So we've talked about thyroid issues and such throughout the, the show's history. I don't think ne-like, necessarily-- I mean, I think in general fasting can be-- is pretty supportive or helpful for autoimmune conditions and actually thyroid issues and check out the episode that I did with Mikelle McPherson. So that was episode four eighty-four. I know we talked about it in that episode, but in general, I do think fasting can be very therapeutic actually for thyroid conditions. That said, I love people being intuitive with fasting and when it, and, you know, when it may or may not be too much for them. So I'm glad that Claudine realized that the window she was doing was not, you know, not helpful for her body. Any thoughts?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think Claudine-- I think this is, is great, Claudine, what she had because it's about what we always talk about every episode pretty much, and that is the importance of listening to your body and what is right for the way your body works and your health needs and what your doctor said, and following that and not just sort of following a protocol because it's the new thing or what everyone's doing. So g-good for you, and we'd love to actually hear more about what your protocol is now.

Like, you know, what are you doing now? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh, oh, and actually, Barry, so she gave a follow-up comment. So this is what she was doing. She said she was doing twenty-hour fasts most of the time. Now they want it to be more like twelve.

"I developed hypoglycemia too, so I need to watch to make sure my blood sugar doesn't crash." That, that's interesting. Well, it's interesting that she developed hypoglycemia. I wonder if she developed it during the twenty-hour fast or during the twelve-hour fast because normally the fasting is very good for resolving blood sugar issues and stabilizing insulin and, you know, really helping with that. But there's a lot of, like, tweaking you can do with, like, the food choices you're making i-- and the fasting hours. Either way, it's very nuanced for each individual, so I'm glad she's, I'm glad she's working on it and hope she finds what works for her. So now, would you like to read Joy's?

Barry Conrad
Yes. So Joy says, "The hardest is, is explaining to people that I'm not practicing self-harm. The easiest was probably how natural and effortless it was to do. It's been eight years for me, and I'm not intending to stop." That is awesome, Joy, and it's pretty much eight years for me too. It's the best feeling.

And I think it-- what you're saying about the self-harm relates back to Kim in the beginning. You know, she was talking about just, you know, explaining herself to people, and I get it. People can very easily look at you and what you're doing and think you're starving yourself. And again, Melanie, what you were saying, maybe it's a bit more targeted at females when it comes to this, to fasting or anything dietary.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. E-exactly, with the, um, the h-self-harm bit, and Karen answered that as well and said, "Yes, this exactly." And, you know, Barry just said, "Exactly," and I'm saying, "Exactly." So yeah, we all agree that it can just become so natural and effortless.

A-effortless, and I as well am not intending to stop. I guess I've been doing it for-- since two thousand ten, like sixteen years.

Barry Conrad
That's so long, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
That's a long time. I love it. Okay. Noreen said, "The easiest is not eating. The toughest is not binging during the eating window." And then I asked, I said, "Oh, wow, what does the binging urge feel like?" And Noreen said, "I can go sixteen, nineteen, twenty-four, up to seventy-four hours my max, and I do so three to four times a year. But typically, I do nineteen to twenty-two a day," so nineteen to twenty-two hours of fasting a day, no problem. "Before I ever started fasting, I would eat a small breakfast, a lunch, a snack, a dinner. Total for the day, eighteen hundred to two thousand calories, just for reference.

When I started fasting in the beginning, I did sixteen/eight. I felt great. I lost ten to twelve pounds and was at my ideal weight. I was very choosy about what I ate. I didn't count calories, and I ate what I craved. Usually fresh meat, fish, rice, potato, vegetables, eggs, cheese. I'm-- always preferred Mediterranean-type foods. After two to three years of fasting, I started to eat large portions as soon as my window opened. I just can't seem to feel satisfied until I eat until I'm very full and went to twenty-two/two or twenty-three/one, and I have gained it back. I now struggle with not being able to space out small amounts-" During a five to eight-hour window. I keep losing and regaining seven pounds over and over again, and I should be 12 to 15 lighter. Wow, okay. We actually answered a question a few episodes ago kind of similar to this, where the listener felt like when, basically when they would open their window, they would just have it like, I think they called it like a binge fest or something, like this feeling of like they just wanted to keep eating, eating, eating. And so, okay, so, so take away, the fasting is easy for her, but then it's when she actually starts eating that's the problem. Thoughts on that, Barry?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. Noreen, thank you so much for sharing that, and very impressive that you're able to go all the way. 74 hours is a long time.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I can't. I haven't done that, actually.

Barry Conrad
My longest is 36, just to experiment with it. But I'd be curious, Noreen, on a sidebar, if you do that for whatever reason. But to what you were saying, and, and I'm pretty sure I shared this for that question Melanie was mentioning about a previous episode, a listener question, and that is, I'm wondering what you're eating in your eating window. I know that you're saying that you usually eat fresh meat, fish, rice, potato, veggies, and whatnot, but I'm wondering what you break your fast with and how much protein you're having, because usually when we're not eating enough calories, and also we talked about calories as well very recently, and it can be very misleading to look at a label and think we're eating enough food.

It's really important that we're eating sufficient amount of nutrients and food in our eating window because otherwise the next day particularly, you're gonna just feel ravenous and reach for whatever's easy, and your body is just gonna crave immediacy and immediate energy, and that can often come in the form of, drum roll, ultra-processed foods. And then not surprisingly, weight gain, you know? Because that's just what-- that's just going to happen in that pattern over time. So I'd really be curious, Noreen, maybe what you're eating in your e- eating window exactly, and how much of each of those things you're eating in terms of macro-wise. Food choices are everything. It's not just about the eating whatever you want, so to speak. Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I, I agree, and, um, I think there's also something that I've-- that seems to happen with some people where it, it could be the actual, like what you're eating in the eating window, and it could be the body, the, like the brain just forming a habit around the, like the small eating window and eating a lot and then needing to feel... Like you get accustomed to this feeling where you just need to feel really full. And so like, and I think I, I feel like I even experienced this in the past, and what, what I would tell myself was, and again, you wanna make sure that you're actually eating enough, like Barry was saying. As-- if you are, something to tell yourself is, "This is not the last time that I'm eating." Like it does, doesn't have to be like I'm not stocking up for like, you know, a week. Like I'm literally gonna eat again tomorrow. So yeah, I think it could be a habit thing.

It also could be, yeah, you, you wanna make sure that you're, you know, getting enough nutrients in the window. I do think there is something to the, like the body point, the body set weight theory, so the, the body basically wanting to maintain certain sizes and encouraging you to eat more until you, you know, get back to that, and I think a lot of people experience that with the yo-yoing. I, yeah, I would just really, really focus on, on the food quality. And so it sounds like right now, okay, now you struggle with not being able to space out small amounts during a five to eight-hour window. I would ask yourself which approach makes you happiest and like most satisfied. Like would you rather be doing small amounts in a lo- a larger window, or do you like eating a lot in the one window? And if you like eating a lot in the one window, you could adjust food choices within there to support your metabolism, you know, and, and maintain or even, even lose weight. So, you know, you could maybe play around with the macros or switch to-- sounds like you eat a lot of whole foods only, but it might be that certain foods are more weight promoting. You could try a lower carb diet. So I, I think I would find the window that makes you happiest, and even if it does have you eating a lot in the window, losing the guilt around the idea of eating a lot and then tell, reminding yourself that this is not, this is also not the last time you're ever eating. Yeah, keep us updated.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Me- Melanie, I, I love what you said about not stocking up. It's like eating for future hunger, we don't need to do that or, or panic, you know?

And maybe, I don't know if it's evolutionary or, or something where some people may be panicking and going, "I need to make sure I have enough so I can last." We've got so much, you know, fuel in our bodies. You know, we always talk about this. We're gonna be fine for a day overnight. We're gonna be just fine. We can go for days without food.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Okay.

Emily, she says, "I always struggle with feeling satisfied regardless of what I eat, protein, veggies, et cetera." And then Chris C. said, "Me too." Uh, something that immediately s- stands out to me is she says protein, veggies, but there's not like carbs there or fruit or dairy or, you know. Like I wonder, are you just eating protein and veggies? Because if so, maybe a lower carb approach is not the best for you. Maybe bringing in some carbs or different types of proteins. What do you think, Barry?

Barry Conrad
Yeah. That immediately makes me think of dieting within a fasting protocol as well as just not something that I encourage personally. I mean, everyone should do whatever they want.

I, I don't necessarily think it's the best way to go when you're, you're already putting a stress on the body and you are fasting and you're going for a long time without food, and then within that you're also very, very controlled, like, "Let me just eat protein and veggies." It's- Not quite enough. Like, we've gotta be getting carbs, we've gotta be getting fiber, and protein, and fats, all, all the things that we need. And it's not, it's not surprising then that you'd feel withdrawals and feel w- tired even, and that you're, you're missing out on something because you are probably if that's all you're taking in in a day within an eating window.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned fats, 'cause I was trying to think of, like, other, other categories that are not mentioned. So yeah, it might be that you're just doing too low carb with not enough fat, or maybe you need the carbs. So yeah, I would definitely, definitely ex- play around with what you're actually eating. And I agree with Barry about not adding on the restriction on top of the restriction.

Not that fasting is a restriction, but the nice thing is you don't have to be restricted necessarily. Okay. Andrea says, "Getting people to understand I truly wasn't hungry just because the clock said it was mealtime and I wasn't depriving myself of anything by delaying when I eat. One meal a day for over six years, and now family and friends accept and understand it about me." I love that. So that's kind of like what we talked about earlier. And I resonate with the and now the family and friends finally, finally accept.

Barry Conrad
After a long time, like, they finally came to the party. I, I totally get, get you, Andrea. And, and I also understand and empathize that it was probably quite tiring over a long time trying to, you know, feel like a broken record and giving the same spiel and saying, "No, it's, I feel great, and I'm not hungry, and it's all good." So good for you.

I'm glad they've come around and they don't bat an eye anymore, I hope, um, around your fasting.

Melanie Avalon
That's one of the things I, one of the few, one of the things I remember saying in my book, What and Wine, is, like, let... 'Cause I have a section on how to deal with all the social stuff, and one of the things is, like, just let time speak for itself. Because if you're still doing it, 'cause people think it's, like, not sustainable and you're, like, hurting yourself or, like, other, like they were saying, like, self-harming yourself.

But if you've done it six years, eight years, 10 years, 16 years, it's harder to say that it's not working for that person.

Barry Conrad
I agree. People, it, time is a real teller. You know, people do look at you and go, "Oh, you're still doing that," you know, "Something must be working." Don't you reckon, Mel? No matter what it is.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I was thinking, I don't know, I was thinking about that.

I was like, or, like, relationships, you know? It's like you might be skeptical about a relationship, but if they're still together, like, a decade later, okay, well, it's working for them.

Barry Conrad
Must be doing something right. Must be.

Melanie Avalon
Would you like to read Zoe's? Which is one of my favorite names, by the way.

Barry Conrad
Zoe, great name. Zoe says, "The hardest is finding new coping mechanisms for the emotions I used eating for. Easiest was how fast I got used to an 18-hour fast.

Luckily, I found the Intermittent Fasting podcast literally the week my husband started suggesting we try it." That's awesome. "So I knew to avoid flavored drinks and started, quote-unquote, 'clean fasting' pretty quickly and pretty early in figuring it out. I have a lot of issues from childhood and I'm in therapy, but the biggest thing I've learnt in the last year or so is just recognizing and identifying my emotions or what I'm feeling and in therapy talking about what I've figured out." Melanie, what do you think about Zoe's comment?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I love this. So first of all, like I said, love your name. I, one of my favorite stuffed animals was a cheetah growing up, and she was named Zoe from the Atlanta Zoo. And I love that you found the podcast the week that your husband started suggesting that you try it. Also love that you tried it together. That's amazing.

Okay. So I, I love... Like, thank you for sharing this, and I think that's a lot of awareness to realize that eating, you know, was serving as a, as a coping mechanism for emotional things. And I think, uh, we talked about this a few weeks ago, right, Barry? With, um, 'cause you, we were talking about Jason Fung's book and the three different types of hunger and, you know, one is completely an emotional hunger. Like, we definitely eat to deal with, with emotions. And so I am all about awareness, which it sounds like, I feel like awareness is the first step to everything, and it sounds like that's what you're really practicing. So you're becoming aware that you do this. You're learning to recognize and identify it, and then you, you know, you talk about that later with, with your therapist. So sending you, sending you all the good vibes about that. But that's really, like, the hardest step, 'cause I feel like so many people do this and, well, I don't wanna say it's the hardest, but it is a hard step for a lot of people is just even being aware that that's what's happening. Thoughts from you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah. I, I think it was really insightful what you shared, Zoe, because, you know, you're saying the hardest part wasn't the fasting per se, it's realizing, you know, you've been using food to cope with your emotions, and sometimes fasting, sometimes fasting removes the distraction and y- then, then you're suddenly, you sit with yourself and what you're feeling. Because we're not, you know, it's one of those things that we're not constantly having to make decisions about, and it creates more room, you know, in our lives, and I think that is a, it's a positive thing ultimately what's happened. I'm sorry that you went through that, and I'm also glad that it's helped you identify the root issue.

So that's, that's a win, so thank you so much for your vulnerability and bravery in sharing that with everybody, and how awesome, I echo what Mel said about discovering this, this with your husband and jumping on the train and are you guys still doing it? Let us know. Are you, how, what protocols are you each following? Tell us. We'd love to know, but thank you so much for sharing that.

Melanie Avalon
Just to highlight, I like what Barry said, 'cause I was talking about, like, the emotional eating, like the, the f- the feelings during the eating. I like what you said about the fasting, how it also... Like, 'cause when you have a fasting window, then you realize these moments where you want to eat, and you realize it's just from an emotional place. Because it, it basically, like, in the, in the silence, you can, it, it makes it more aware, the, uh, the triggers and what may be happening. So I love that.

Okay. Homeward stretch. Just two more. Megan said, "I used to love fasting, and then perimenopause hit, and I could not fast anymore. I was like, 'Don't tell me when to eat.' For a while I was doing one meal a day, but at the very least a 18/6 and then the odd Alternate day fasting, ADF, to mix things up. I found out my B12, vitamin D and ferritin had all tanked, so I had zero energy to make good choices. I'm only doing about 14/10 most days with the odd 16/8." Yeah, I, uh, I feel you, Megan. I, um, I am very curious when I get to perimenopause if I will feel any different about my fasting. I don't think I will, but, but I'm... That's a cognitive bias, of course. I'm really glad that you, you know, found out the, the nutrients that you weren't getting and that you're able to address that, and it sounds like you're finding a new, you know, a new schedule, a new fasting schedule that works for you. So hopefully on-- 'Cause perimenopause can be a wonky time of shifting hormones and all of that. Hopefully on the flip side, in menopause, things might become easier again. So yeah, Barry, thoughts from you?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, uh, from what I get from this is, you know, one protocol in a one fasting protocol isn't a one-size-fits-all kind of a thing. And I'm not a female, so I, I can't speak to the perimenopause, but I hear this so much. Like, honestly, even I was talking to a friend of mine last week, and she talked about how women, you know, it's different with women fasting and, and we-- it's just different for w- men and women in general. We just have very, very different bodies, and I like how you, you're working with what you know that you should do with your, your body and your health.

And some people thrive on that OMAD, some people will go down to that 16/8. And you said now that you, you're going to 14/10 most days and even, and then the odd 16/8. I wonder what happens on the other side. So Mel, with perimenopause, how long generally is that period of time and, like, and how do you know when you're in menopause and how do you know when you're on the other side of it? I mean, this is very female centric, but curious.

Melanie Avalon
So I am not a perimenopause expert by any means. Let's see. So perimenopause, Google AI says four years on average, can range anywhere from two to 10 years.

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Wow.

On the, um, on the flip side though, in menopause, because all the hormones have, have stabilized so much, people... 'cause they're basically dropped, but people often find fasting is actually easier in menopause, so it's like kind of getting off of a roller coaster. But then also I think fasting can be helpful for many women in perimenopause to help stabilize the roller coaster. So again, it's a whole thing of just, like, figuring out what works for you.

Barry Conrad
I wonder how women kn- I mean, how you even know that you're in it. I guess you have symptoms and get it checked out or?

Melanie Avalon
Yes. I think it's, I mean, if you're having a not good experience, I was just, I was just watching this on a TV show the other day, but you know, like you're getting hot flashes and mood swings and insomnia and all the not fun stuff, changes in appetite, symptoms that are not fun apparently.

Barry Conrad
Doesn't sound like a party to me.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. We shall see. Yeah, I'm actually, I'll be very curious. I'm sure we'll still be friends then, so I'll let you know, Barry.

Barry Conrad
Let me know how you go when you go through the storm of, of, uh, peri-peri.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so last one. This is from Sherry, and I followed up to clarify. She said, "Planning my 500-calorie meal for my ADF day." I asked her if that was the easiest or the hardest part, and she hasn't answered.

So do you think that, do you think that's the hardest part for her is planning the 500-calorie meal?

Barry Conrad
You know, maybe because I, I'm guessing. I don't know why this made me laugh, but I just think people are thinking whether you like it or not, like, if you're planning your fi- your measly little 500 calorie meal day, like, do you wanna make that just so special that you're planning it and you're finding it hard or are you just going, "Oh"?

Melanie Avalon
Exactly or is it fun?

Barry Conrad
Yeah or is it fun? I, I don't know, but maybe she loves that. Maybe she finds it stressful. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
We had the exact same reaction 'cause I was like, it really depends on who you are, 'cause I, for me, I feel like it's probably the hardest 'cause I feel like that would be a-- I don't know, I could be wrong. I feel like most people would be like planning is like the hard thing, but for me, if I was doing ADF, that would be so fun. Like that w- m- I'd be like, "Yeah."

Barry Conrad
I've tried, I've flirted with ADF for maybe a week, maybe a few days, not a week, not even a week because I like eating too much, but back in Sydney and, but I kind of had my go-tos just like five, five to 600 cals of eggs or five to 600 cals of extra lean beef. That's it.

That's all I had. I don't like it personally.

Melanie Avalon
I don't like restricting cal- I don't like counting calories. That ship has sailed for me personally. But um-

Barry Conrad
Yeah

Melanie Avalon
... awesome. Well, this was fun. We should do more like this where it's like a question and then we get all the answers.

Barry Conrad
I think it's really good. It's just a different spin on it and it's more, especially people interacting with each other and can lead to the next thought. I think I, I like that.

Melanie Avalon
Me too. We can act it out.

Barry Conrad
And now Megan says..

Melanie Avalon
I know. Well, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
So the purpose of this portion of the show, friends, is all of the benefits of fasting are not just in the fasting, they are also in the eating window. And um, I realize I should probably start pitching Craving here every time. So also if, if you like exploring restaurants and reviewing restaurants and all the things like Barry and I love doing and you wanna have a dating app that supports that, go to cravingdating.com.

Okay, in any case, we love finding a restaurant, profiling it and saying what we would order. So Barry, the restaurant I have for today, the backstory, I think the restaurant I picked last week or last time that we were talking, last time I picked a restaurant on this show, I said that I was reading this article and it was like the quirkiest restaurants in every state. So this is also from that list and I was excited 'cause it's one I've been to that I have a really intense memory about. So this is called Lambert's Cafe. They have three locations, but their tagline is Home of Throwed Rolls. So, and their website is throwedrolls.com. So I remember, um, when I was in fourth grade... Was it fourth grade or fifth grade? I think it was probably fifth grade. I was in this, this program called PACE. It was like the little, like, honors thing. Do they do that in Australia, where they have, like, you go and you do, like, extra curricular activities?

Barry Conrad
It could be like a prefect in a way, in some sort of way, but-

Melanie Avalon
Maybe. Yeah. I remember you talking about prefect, and I was like, "Harry Potter." Yeah, it was basically like once a week we would go into this room, and they would, like, teach us how to do logic puzzles and, like, overstimulate our mind a little bit more.

But we went on a field trip from Memphis to St. Louis, and on the way it was like, "Oh, we have to stop at the Throwed Rolls place." Like, it was, like, such a thing. And so I've looked into it more, and yeah, it's like a legend. So it's in Missouri. They have... Well, they have three locations. So one is in Sikeston, Missouri. That's the one we went to. I asked Chad. I was like, "Which location did we go to if we went from, like, Memphis to St. Louis?" They have one in Ozark, and they have one in, um, Foley, Alabama. They are known for... Apparently, the, the story is, like, way back in the day, like 19... In May 1976, the tradition was started when a waiter threw... Okay, he was tired of waiting. Wait. A hungry customer... Oh, this is what happened. Okay. So the cafe was really crowded. A hungry customer was tired of waiting, and he yelled at the owner to just throw the dang thing. About the roll, Norm tossed the roll to the customer, and then they turned it into an eccentric culinary tradition. So again, I went when I was, like, in fifth grade. But they throw the rolls across the room, like the buttered rolls.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And not like, just like... They, like, they throw them across the room, like across the room. They also come around, and they have, like, side dishes, and they'll just, like, give you food. It's like, it's like... And then the food is, like, overwhelmingly Southern. Like, you're gonna see the menu. It's very Southern.

So it's just, like, this, like, country store, country restaurant vibes where we're throwing food, we're eating a lot, and it's, it's a tradition for a lot of people. It's, like, a historic place.

Barry Conrad
Sounds like fun.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. And they have a gift shop.

Barry Conrad
You love a gift shop. That's perfect for you.

Melanie Avalon
I love a good gift shop. Don't tempt me with a gift shop. Oh my gosh. Okay.

Barry Conrad
Mel, if, if we went somewhere and there was a gift shop, I, I reckon you'd... We'd be waiting, keeping the desi- dinner reservation waiting 'cause you'd still, "I'm coming, I'm coming. I'm looking at gifts." I'm like, "We have to go."

Melanie Avalon
Oh, like at the... I would go at the end. I would go at the end.

Yeah. Well, may- Oh, like when we're waiting for it? I guess it depends. Well, I'd probably go before, and then I would go at the end. And then you'd be waiting on me to get out of the gift shop. Okay, so do you see the menu?

Barry Conrad
I see the menu, and it's very extensive and very Southern.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And what I love is that they, for everything, you would not expect this, they have a code for if, if things have nitrates. What? Yeast, dairy, nuts, fish, shellfish, soy, soybean, eggs, wheat, gluten, non-stick spray. Talk about listing all the allergens. I love it.

I'm gonna have to partner with them for Craving, my dating app. Okay, so let's see. Classics and salads. Do you... Would you get a... Do you like that we get to see pictures? Would you like a classic or a salad? It's so Southern.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna choose so much and, and have so much food.

Melanie Avalon
Like, the first thing, Something Southern, has fried bologna in it.

Barry Conrad
That's so American. I don't know why it is, but it just is.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay, so when, when they say... Okay, when it says it comes with two sides plus all the pass arounds, so the pass arounds is what I was saying. They'll, like, just come around with what, like, random food they have that day and give you some. And y- they'll just, like, give it to you.

Barry Conrad
So guessing you're probably not gonna leave here hungry no matter what you get.

Melanie Avalon
No.

Barry Conrad
From the Lambert's classics and salads, Mel, I'm gonna do the steak and shrimp. That's very me.

Melanie Avalon
So that's what you're getting as your main meal? Are you gonna get-

Barry Conrad
You know what? I'll get the Something Southern as, like, a little s- as, like, a little appetizer kind of thing.

Melanie Avalon
I th... Let's see. All the white bean a body can eat with your choice of jowl or fried bologna with two sides. And though I think it's a, I think it's a meal.

Barry Conrad
That's a meal?

Melanie Avalon
I think so, because it comes with two sides and then also has the pass arounds. But you know, you could turn it into an appetizer.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna turn that into appetizer 'cause I feel like there's so much more on this menu that I'm not gonna be able to choose. I have to scroll down and keep going, you know?

But that's, that's my starter. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, 'cause we have to figure this out, 'cause that's just the classics and the... That's just the classic sections, but then they have, like, a sandwich section, and then they have the hog section, and then they have the chicken. Okay, we'll just go by section.

Okay, so well, from that section, I really... I love the idea of steak and shrimp. I'm trying to see if there's anything else. Do you like meatloaf?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I actually do.

I, I had, I had it for the very first time earlier this year at someone's apartment, like some Aussies who have lived here for a while, and it's actually pretty good. I always thought that meatloaf's supposed to be gross, but it was really tasty.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. I, I w- I felt like you were gonna say that you only recently had it for the first time 'cause it's, like, in a very American thing, right?

Barry Conrad
Actually, didn't we talk about this? I think, I think I told you about it, and then you said, "Oh, meatloaf. That's just, like, that's, like, a regular thing that you just grow up with." But I don't think you were like, "Wow, that's so amazing."

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's definitely one of those things that you think is, like, disgust... It's like a, it's like a, it's like a cliché. Like, the cliché is, like, the mom making meatloaf for, like, the family, and the kid's not wanting to eat it.

But then you grow up, and you get, like, fancy meatloaf places, and it's, like, really good. It can be so many different things. It just depend- depends on, like, how it's made.

Barry Conrad
What, what is a not fancy meatloaf like? What does it taste like?

Melanie Avalon
Hamburger meat and ketchup. I mean, not really, but basically.

I don't know why it has such a vibe that, like ... 'Cause it's real- I mean, this is the thing that's weird about it. I don't know why it has that vibe because it sounds like it should be really ... I mean, kids should like it. I don't know why, I don't know why it's a cliche here of like, "Oh, mom made meatloaf." Like-

Barry Conrad
It does sound hard, though.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Maybe it's the name. Maybe the name is what killed it. Maybe, maybe if they have them called something else like Delicious Meat Meal or something.

Barry Conrad
It reminds me of larded squab, you know?

Melanie Avalon
The larded squab. Oh my gosh.

Barry Conrad
Actually, Mel, another thing from this, this section that I would definitely get is the barbecue ribs. That's very ... How Southern does that get?

Melanie Avalon
It's very Southern. We're gonna have to look at the end at the sides too, 'cause these all come, these all come with sides.

How about a sandwich? That's what it literally says. How about a sandwich? Do you want a sandwich?

Barry Conrad
And again, once again, Americans, it's not that ... It's not what a sandwich is. Sandwiches shouldn't have all these things in it. Oh my gosh, look at the JLT.

Melanie Avalon
A JLT. They always have jowl. I didn't know you could eat that. I guess that's a very Southern thing.

Barry Conrad
What's jowl? What is that?

Melanie Avalon
It's apparently, I just looked it up, it's the pig's mouth. It's like the pig's ... It's the jawline and cheeks.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh.

Melanie Avalon
Wait till we get to the hog section. We, yeah, the So- in the South, they eat, like, everything from the hog.

Barry Conrad
I would actually do the Lambert's burger. That looks pretty good.

Made with eight ounces patty of USDA choice of beef served with one side of your choice, plus Norm's pass arounds, which is what Mel said is the, the fair of the day. What can run with those dishes?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I'm good on this section.

I'm waiting for the next section, the slice of hog. They have literally every type. Center cut ham steak, country ham steak, barbecue pork steak, pork chops. I really want ... Oh, hog jowl.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
No. No, I'm saying they have that. I don't want that.

I want the center cut ham steak. The old-fashioned bone and center slice of ham served in a skillet with two sides and all Norm's pass arounds. I don't think I've ever had, like, a center cut ham steak.

Barry Conrad
It looks pretty good from the photo. It looks, it doesn't look as fatty. It's like the ... I guess it's the center cut. So it must be pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna go for pork chops. Even the d- the deep-fried pork chops, no less. Two pork chops, deep-fried or o- actually, or grilled. I'll do grilled pork chops.

Pick three veggies to go with the classic. Great. Uh, save room for the pass arounds. Yeah, great. I'm g- happy with grilled pork chops.

Melanie Avalon
Now that I know they have grilled pork chops, I might get that too. But I ... No, I wanna try the center cut.

Maybe we can split the grilled pork chops and the center cut ham. Oh my gosh, so much. Now the chicken. Do you want any chicken?

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh. How could you even ask? Of course.

I'm ... Uh, see f- ... Oh my God, Mel. Golden fried chicken? Let's go. Let's serve me up. Generous amount of fried chicken piled up. Piled up and served with two sides and all the pass arounds. Sign me all the way up for that.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I'm good. They do have, they do have ... You know what's ironic? 'Cause we, we talk about, like, what we'd actually order, but in, in reality, if I was going here, I probably would just get, like, the charbroiled chicken breast. No, maybe not. But it feels very safe.

I would be, like, very ... I'm just, like, nervous about all this food. Ugh. Okay. Yeah, I'm good. Uh, tide, tide and tackle. Oh, they have grilled salmon. They have frog legs.

Barry Conrad
I love frog legs.

Melanie Avalon
They got everything. Fried catfish. Do, do you want any tide and tackle?

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna actually ... I ha- Oh, by the way, I had catfish for the first time at a place called Red Lobster in New York, which is, like ... It's not, it's not like a chain. It's, like, really, really awesome.

It's good soul food. It was the first time having it. It was-

Melanie Avalon
It wasn't like Red Lobster Red Lobster.

Barry Conrad
No. Oh, no, no, it's not Red Lobster. Red Rooster, sorry. Re- Red Roos- Rooster.

Melanie Avalon
You went there before.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. It was, um, Times Square.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. That was one of the first places you went when you moved here, I think.

Barry Conrad
No, I went, um, pro- maybe, like, a month ago actually for the first time because it was really good. They have, like, live jazz playing and ... Anyway, I digress.

I will have the frog legs. I've had frog legs once before in New Orleans, and it was pretty good. And this has a pile o', a pile of them deep-fried and practically jumping off the plate. Served with cornbread, a- and onions, two sides, and the pass arounds. If you haven't had them in a while, you need to try these. Whoever wrote this menu deserves a raise.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I know. I love it. Well, I see what I'm getting for dessert, but I'll come back to that.

Okay, so finally we are going to the sides. So there are the perfect sides, then there are the extra special sides, and then there are the pass arounds. Okay, so the pass arounds that ... And I think it just depends on, like, what they have that day, but it's the rolls, the sorghum molasses, hmm, apple butter, macaroni and tomatoes, fried potatoes and onions, black-eyed peas, fried okra. Oh my gosh, this is so Southern. I used to love black-eyed peas growing up. Loved them.

Barry Conrad
I don't think I've tried them.

Melanie Avalon
S- they're so good. I can ... Oh, so good. Highly recommend.

Barry Conrad
Do you like the Black Eyed Peas group?

Melanie Avalon
Do I like them? Yes. I met the main guy once in a parking garage.

Barry Conrad
Will.i.am.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. That's his name. I forgot. Oh my gosh, I know ... I see the sides I, I see the side I want. What sides would you get?

Barry Conrad
I would get baked potato. I would get cornbread for sure. Candied yams for sure. Baby carrots for sure. Sliced peaches. I think you'd get the cucumbers and onions, right?

Melanie Avalon
Well, I just saw that, so I would get that as, like, my second side, but not my first side. Cottage cheese. They have cottage cheese.

Barry Conrad
Oh, cottage cheese. I overlooked that too. Yeah, of course, cottage cheese. So many things.

Melanie Avalon
All these th- ... Yeah, this is literally ... Barry, if you wanna, like, eat the South, this is what this restaurant is.

Barry Conrad
This looks pretty good. Not gonna lie.

Melanie Avalon
And then do they have ... They don't have desserts listed anywhere. So I guess Guess you just figure that out

Barry Conrad
I guess you don't have this. They know there's no room for dessert after all that food.

Melanie Avalon
Trying to think. Yeah, there's no. They don't list it. It's probably, I would guess, I could, I could probably guess what the desserts are. I bet they are, they probably have a peach cobbler. They probably have a chocolate cake. They probably have a pecan pie and they probably have a apple pie and they probably have ice cream. I bet you that is the menu.

Oh no, and then they probably have a chocolate chip cookie.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, now I'm hungry now.

Melanie Avalon
I guarantee that that something on there is on the menu. For dessert for me, I'm gonna get the grilled salmon.

Barry Conrad
I knew you were gonna say that. Any drinks?

Melanie Avalon
Wait, do they not have a bar? I wonder if they have a bar. What if they don't?

Barry Conrad
I don't think they do.

Melanie Avalon
Well, either, either way I'm having to bring in my own stuff, so.

Barry Conrad
I'd have a diet, diet Pepsi or diet, yeah, that's fine.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Okay. So yeah.

Barry Conrad
This is great.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So on that note, friends, we hope you enjoyed your time with us today. Thank you guys so much for being here, all the love and support.

The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodast.com/episode493. They will have links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. You can get my Glow Coffee at glowcoffeeco.com and you can follow us on Instagram. We are IF Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. Barry is barry_conrad. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
No, that's it. Thank you once again s- everyone for tuning in. You're all awesome and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
I'll talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, bye.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes.

We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joiner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.