Welcome to Episode 480 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.
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LINKS
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STUDIES: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-025-03719-2
https://melanieavalon.com/oxalates/
https://melanieavalon.com/immunitycode1/
https://melanieavalon.com/immunitycode2/
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 480 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.
I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-host, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iofpodcast.com or by going to iofpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 480 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?
Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel, I'm doing great. I can't complain.
It's a beautiful evening here in New York. And I have to say, this has been happening a lot. Well, you know that it happens a lot anyway for me, but more often than not recently, I'm loving so much being in the kitchen. Like I love cooking. Like it's honestly so much fun for me. I'm loving like the dinner parties and stuff, like hosting people, making the fresh pasta, making all the, just the whole experience. I really, really am enjoying it right now for unwinding and it's really therapeutic for me. I really enjoy it.
Melanie Avalon
That's so amazing. People can watch it because your your podcast is video as well. I was gonna say like you should be a TV show so people can watch it but people can watch it right banter with BC.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I guess the difference is, yes, you should watch it. And also the differences are not really cooking.
I'm more partaking, but I just love food and wine so much. And that's why we talk about fasting and feasting, but it's an experience every time. And I love watching people's reaction and having them enjoy the food as well. It brings me a lot of joy.
Melanie Avalon
I've told you about John Levy, right? You need to go to his influencers dinner thing.
Barry Conrad
Oh, you are this guy that has.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, we're like he has, you know, like, I don't know how many people doesn't or so people who are all, you know, doing really cool things in life and nobody introduces themselves and then they cook a dinner together.
Barry Conrad
I should write this down so I can make a note to check it out.
Melanie Avalon
I need to reach out to him anyways about something, so that'd be your jam.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Do you ever get the impulse or desire to do stuff like that? Or do you like hosting people in general? Or do you like you prefer just to kind of separate home from going out and stuff like that, or dinner situations? What's your,
Melanie Avalon
If I had, so growing up, I was the host girl. So like all the parties, like this, like the class parties and like all the things, the Christmas parties, like they were always at my house. And I loved it.
I love, I love themes. For me, it's more about like the theming and the like plot of the evening. Like I just love creating an entire experience for people. So it's not like just the food for me or just, I was going to say just the wine. I guess I wasn't drinking wine in high school, but in college I would have wine at the parties. So for me, it's more about like the entire experience of it and the entertainment aspect, I guess. I would now, I just, I don't have the space for it. Like I have a one bedroom apartment. So I have zero interest in my current location.
But if I had a house someday, like if I had like a, I would love to have like a grand house and like have fabulous parties.
Barry Conrad
I can totally see that happening, by the way.
Melanie Avalon
And it's funny, I think we probably have a very similar, I think that the specifics of what makes us the happiest about it is a little bit different because yours is probably a little bit more about the food than mine is, but I think we probably, like what you were describing about how much you just love it, like I loved hosting parties.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. And also just the whole, you know, like the cohesion of the night, the cohesion of the night, like the music, the, the type of sort of cuisine it is trying to keep, yeah, trying to keep it in a theme and the whole thing, the ambience, the whole, the whole situation is just fun.
Melanie Avalon
I know I would like to I would like to give a formal apology to my family for everything I would make them do for my parties.
Barry Conrad
Like, what did you make them do?
Melanie Avalon
I remember one year I literally had so many parties. We had a great Gatsby theme party for our Honors English class and I made it 1920s themed and I made my brother be a bartender at a little fake bar and I made him dress up as a bartender in a suit and I made him make these drinks, non-alcoholic of course.
Barry Conrad
It's hilarious and awesome too though. I mean, wow, it's it's fun
Melanie Avalon
And my mom, shout out to my mom, she was so helpful. I think she liked doing the parties too, but she was so helpful, like helping me throw all these parties.
Barry Conrad
Are your family very festive in that way? Are they very celebratory and they like to party and have house parties?
Melanie Avalon
I think I'm the one that likes to have the parties. We like getting dinners, but I think I'm the one who, like, I only remember my parents having maybe, I only remember them having maybe like two or three parties total, like work parties, you know?
How about your family?
Barry Conrad
I mean, yeah, not, not really. I mean, no, not, not parties per se, like gatherings and stuff, but not, not a whole situation, like, you know, themes and stuff.
I think that's probably more me, the performers.
Melanie Avalon
I know actually i didn't put that that together to and to but that probably know the type of person that wants to be like an actor and everything probably also gravitates towards the type of these types of things.
Barry Conrad
It's like a scene, like, you know, like create the moment, create the scene.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, think about it. So like, like the Golden Globes and the Oscars and everything, they're basically one big party, like dinner party.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I actually wonder what the food and what that's like at that particular level, you know.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I served at the... What did I serve at? The Emmys. What was that like? Ehh... Chaotic. I wouldn't do it again.
Barry Conrad
Do you know what? I just had a flashback too of the slime photo.
Melanie Avalon
Oh gosh. I still have written down on my to-do list, Spellmageddon, because I need to download all those photos from Getty Images before they go away. Okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it.
Barry Conrad
Solaris, how are you? What's been having with you?
Melanie Avalon
I am good. So actually speaking of wine, can I tell my little teaser that I mentioned last week? Yes. Okay. So I'm going to be, I'm going to be like specific and vague at the same time about this. And this is not this literally, I just had the conversation about this two or three days ago. So it's very much a new idea. Nothing is set in stone.
That said, I've talked for years and years about my obsession with wine and my obsession with organic, low alcohol, low sugar, like finding wines that make you feel good the next day. So like wines that you can drink and live your best life. And so I love dry farm wines. I drink, I order them all the time. Like I always have dry farm wines in my wine collection. And I've also started branching out because I realized like, oh, because I love dry farm wines. And you can, it's a membership program though. So you order like a lot at one time. And oh, by the way, you can work directly with them, which is what I do now, not work with, talk with them directly. And like specifically, like they'll tell you what they have in stock in your preference. And then you can like pick what to order. And so that's what I do now. Point is, I've also like branched out and like tried to find other websites that carry wines that would fit dry farm wines criteria that I like. And so doing that, I found actually I found three websites that I really like. And one of the websites, I'm not going to tell you which one, but one of the websites, the founder, he's not the founder, he acquired the company, but the owner of it, he's a song. And he reached out to me because he's thinking of like rebranding the site or making it more direct to consumer. Because he does a lot in the world of wine. So he basically is thinking of like doing something more with the site. So we had a call and I think if we move forward, I might work with him on the site, rebranding it and everything like that.
And then I could have like a section of my personally recommended wine. So these would be wines that I've personally tasted and tried that I know are a certain alcohol percentage that I know are organic. And they're all affordable too. That's the other thing. I want to make it affordable. And they're all affordable. And then you would be able to order them like a la carte rather than... Again, I love dry farm wines, but this would be... So do both because I still drink dry farm wines. But in addition to ordering an entire case of dry farm wines, this would be like you could actually pick what you want. And they would all be things that I really like. And they would be affordable. And then we also might do some other projects that we want to do involved with this. We have like a lot of ideas.
Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. Well, that's so exciting. That's like a no brainer. It seems like it fits you like a glove and makes total sense.
Melanie Avalon
I really want to do it. I've been wanting for so long to have like a resource where it's like these are Melanie's recommended wines because I am crazy with how many wines I taste and try and friends I spend hours researching wines before I order them if they're not from dry from wines. That's the good thing about dry from wines is like I trust them implicitly so I can just order from them. I don't have to I don't have to research the alcohol.
I don't have to research if it's organic after research soul fights. I literally just pick the ones that I like and then if I don't like them, they also have a money back guarantee, which I love. But when I'm ordering on my own, so I'm like going and trying to find ones that would fit dry from wines criteria, it I literally spend like hours researching. So this would be me being able to be like, these are all wines that I vetted and I love. And you can feel good about ordering and drinking.
Barry Conrad
I love that. I love that idea so much.
And also because you are so genuinely like listeners like Melanie, this is her like on and off the show. Like she loves, you really do love it. And also on that as well. What about, remember you said you did that, not a course, it's like a level two situation with the wine. How was that? How was that night?
Melanie Avalon
the W set or the one I went back to like the class recently.
Barry Conrad
The one that you went back to.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really, really fun. Shout out to Vino venue.
They're a local wine restaurant bar. They have wine on tap that you can order taste of and they do classes. That's where I did my WSET certification, but they have so many epic classes. So yeah, they had me back for level two wine tasting like a pro. It was really fun.
Barry Conrad
How did it, was it fun, was it?
Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. I finally might one of my favorite parts and I should just order this online but they had one of those kits where you can smell all the different like things that you often see as flavor as as Descriptors of wine and I realized oh like this is what current red current smells like like I'll describe things as being like red current And I realized I didn't actually know what it tasted or smelled like So that was helpful I want to order one of those kits and and smell like all the things like gooseberry and like rambleberry and red current
Barry Conrad
I'm just amazed like how people can even just literally smell like swish around some wine in the glass and be able to pick up all these, these notes and then be able to accurately, you know, say what it's amazing.
Melanie Avalon
So that's one of the things we learned too, which I had known, but I like relearned it, which is basically there are different levels of tasters. So there are super tasters on one end and then on the other end, there's like people who barely taste at all, then there's like the happy medium.
You actually don't want to be a, well, maybe you want to be a super taster, but if you're a super taster, you actually, I think it can be a hindrance because alcohol, what was it? So for super tasters, alcohol tastes really bitter and harsh. And if you're on the flip side of it, you're not a super taster, alcohol tastes sweet. So it can affect your entire perception of the wine. And you might actually, if you're a super taster, you might not really get the full picture because your tongue is going to focus in on certain flavors, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently people have different numbers of taste buds too.
Barry Conrad
What are you, where do you fall on that? And what about the, what are we in the taste buds? How many, how does that work? Like how many people have different numbers of taste buds?
Melanie Avalon
They said they used to do a thing at the class, they don't do it anymore, but you could put a solution on your tongue and you could see how many taste buds you have.
Barry Conrad
That's awesome. I would do that.
Melanie Avalon
I think I'm probably in the middle, I think, but I'm not sure. I don't, I don't know how you would like verify.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm definitely not like the super taste because it's not bitter to me to drink wine.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, me neither. So, oh, that's interesting.
So this is saying like, for example, the increased bitterness may be protective against alcohol intake and some individuals. So maybe the bitter sweet flavors of beer and alcohol are often too bitter for super tasters. Yeah, so because you would think like a super taster would be like perfect for like wine tasting, but probably not because if you're a super taster, you probably are not going to like wine as much.
Barry Conrad
Yeah. Well, I didn't like beer for ages as well. I don't know. Maybe you can, can you change? If you were a sweet potato and that's just a genetic thing.
Melanie Avalon
You know, yeah, I think you're stuck with like what you how you taste
Barry Conrad
We'll bring on Mel's wine adventures. Here we go.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, we shall see. So, but on that note, shall we jump into some fasting-related things?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
To start things off, I have a study that I found. This study is called Individual Variations and Glycemic Responses to Carbohydrates and Underlying Metabolic Physiology. It was published in Nature Medicine in June of 2025. The study looked at a few different things. They were looking at the different blood glucose responses to different types of carbs. They looked at seven different types, so 50 grams of different starches, so rice was one, bread was one, potatoes was one, pasta was one, and beans. Then they also looked at two simple carbs, which were mixed berries, so blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, and then also grapes. That was to look at high-fiber versus low-fiber simple carbs. They were looking at two main different things. One, they were looking at how do people respond to these different carbs? Does everybody respond the same? Do they respond differently? Then two, they wanted to see if you preloaded carbs, specifically rice, with either fiber, protein, or fat, would it affect your blood sugar response to the rice 10 minutes later? I found the study because I specifically wanted to look at studies eating things before carbs to see how it would affect. That's how I found the study.
The whole part that's looking at how are people responding differently to the seven carbs, that was not what I was looking for, but it was fun to read that as well. Long story short about the responding in general to different types of carbs, it was 55 different people, and it was all over the place. People responded differently to different carbs. People within themselves will respond the same, but compared to other people, it would be different, which just goes to show you that you can't make assumptions about like, oh, this is a high GI carb, and this is a low GI carb. By that, I mean glycemic index, so your blood sugar response. We don't want to have intense spikes on our blood sugar. We also don't want it high for a long period of time either. They basically found that people responded differently. Some carbs were basically better for people than other carbs for the same people.
The way they tested this was people were a continuous glucose monitor, which we've talked a lot about on the show, so they could see how people were responding. I'll just give a few of the takeaways from that because more I want to talk about the preloading. This was interesting. They found that people who were... Here's an example of how people are different. 19 of the participants had the highest blood glucose peak after eating rice, but then others were highest after bread or grapes or potatoes or pasta, so it's just all over the place. However, no participants had the highest response to... I'm trying to say if you want to guess, or should I just tell you?
Barry Conrad
Mmm, potatoes?
Melanie Avalon
It's a that's a good guess No
Barry Conrad
some of the options.
Melanie Avalon
Okay so the options were okay i'll say exactly what is so jasmine rice buttermilk bread shredded potatoes macaroni pasta can black beans mix berries that are blackberry strawberries blueberries and then grapes.
Barry Conrad
Jasmine Rice. No. Which one?
Melanie Avalon
That actually rice was, a lot of people had high responses to rice. Uh-huh. It was the beans.
Barry Conrad
I was going to say beans.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, they said it might be from the protein content in the beans and then the mixed berries, probably from the high fiber. So no participants had the highest spike for beans or mixed berries.
And then they also found really interesting correlations. And I don't think I ever would have been able to guess this, but the people in general who were the most insulin sensitive, so had the best blood glucose control, they actually spiked the highest after grapes. And the people who had the worst blood sugar control, they tended to spike the highest after potatoes. So basically, if you're insulin resistant, you might struggle more with potatoes. And then if you're really, if you're more insulin sensitive, you might see high spikes with grapes. In any case, so looking at preloading, so again, they looked at preloading with fiber in the form of P-fiber or protein, which was egg whites, or fat, which was cream. And they had it 10 minutes before the 50 grams of the rice. And they found that all three of these did make the blood glucose response to the rice not as detrimental. So it was a lower response. It wasn't like massive, but it did have an effect. And then it also, again, it varied by different people. The fat, however, it actually elongated the timing of the blood glucose response. Like it took, it made it longer for the participants to get a higher blood sugar response to the rice. And this is something I feel very passionate about because people will say, oh, have your carbs with fat because that slows down the, you know, mitigates the glucose response. I don't think that is a good idea. I could be wrong. I like I've reserved the right to change my mind. However, in my opinion, all it does is it slows down. You're still getting all the blood sugar response. You're just getting it longer and you're actually processing it later. So now instead of like processing the carbs earlier, you're kind of just making that spike happen later, which I don't know necessarily that that's a good thing. Either way, maybe it's good for some people. I just don't know why the recommendation is eat your carbs with fat when the recommendation, in my opinion, should we eat your carbs with protein? Because eating your carbs with protein also mitigates the blood glucose response later, but it doesn't elongate that that time like the way the fat does. So I think it can have you it can make you have a better blood glucose response without just like dragging it out. It's just that's my opinion. But I think that's supported by this study. So their theory is about why these like preload foods had this effect. They said it could be two different things. It could be that they, they said it's probably two things that work together. So one is they literally just decrease carbohydrate absorption of the rice. And then the second might be through releasing, I don't know if it's Incretin or Incretin, Jason Fung talks a lot about it in his book that I'm reading right now, but those are satiety related hormones and then insulin secretion and insulin action.
Melanie Avalon
So because of so having fiber or protein or fat before the carbs might activate these pathways, make you actually absorb less carbs and give you a beneficial effect where you don't have as much of a blood glucose response to the rice. And they did say, and then last thing I'll say is they did find that people who were insulin sensitive. So people with good blood glucose control had a better effect. It was more, it was more, more effective to do this, this protocol.
But for people who are insulin resistant, it didn't have as much of a fact, which is really, it's kind of disheartening because you know, the people who are insulin resistant are the people who need to most, you know, get quote, get help, like they need to more see beneficial changes because they're insulin insulin resistant and it's harder for them to actually make changes because basically they were just saying like, when you have, if you're that insulin resistant, you're just not as responsive to these things. So yeah, it could be a longer, longer journey for insulin resistant, but it doesn't mean don't, you know, take this into account and do this. It just means that it's kind of like the whole thing, like the rich get richer than poor get poorer. Basically, if you're in a good state of insulin sensitivity, you benefit more from the good things and if you're not, you don't benefit as much, which all goes back to having a foundational diet and like having intermittent fasting, like doing foundational things that will prevent you or keep you or help you become not insulin resistant anymore. And I think intermittent fasting is, I think one of the best ways to do that. So yeah, Barry, what are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
I think this is this is so interesting because it almost makes you realize why like diet arguments solely online is kind of pointless because it's not just this food is bad for everyone because you know everyone it's so different and it's so surprising how there's different spikes happened with like the grape thing that really threw me and then even like the potato situation really surprised me obviously that must mean I'm okay because I'm not getting those spikes really but like do you do you reckon that people focus too much on blaming individual foods instead of looking at their overall insulin sensitivity because I mean I feel like it's not it's more what's happening happening underneath metabolic metabolic rather than what food is bad you know I mean like based on this
Melanie Avalon
Yes, exactly. That is a perfect thesis to take away from this because people, especially with the internet and clickbait and it's like, oh, eat this food to lower your blood sugar. Do this, to do this, do this, do this. It's so different. How people respond to food is so different. So you have to find what works for you, the foods that help your blood sugar. And that's why I think it's so helpful if everybody at least once does a two week trial of a continuous glucose monitor. Because then you will see how you are actually responding to food because otherwise you won't know. So yeah, I couldn't agree more. The takeaway is basically foods affect people differently.
If I were to do a takeaway from the fiber protein fat preloading, I do think preloading with fat, I don't think that's the best idea. I think this supports preloading with fiber or protein. But either way, and again, the reason I found the study was I was reading Jason Fung's book, which is called The Hunger Code. And he was talking about the role of the order of what you eat and how eating carbs last. It was mind blowing to me because he gave the ideal order of food and it's literally the order I eat in. Because he says, start with fiber and vegetables and then have protein and fat and then have carbs. And the way I eat every single night is I start with tons of cucumbers, so tons of fiber, and then I have my meat and then I have my fruit. So I literally do that exact order.
Barry Conrad
Did he say why, like, does he break down why he says that?
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so that will have the best effect overall. And I realized I literally just said that everybody's different.
I do think in general though that principle of fiber first and then protein fat and then carbs, I'm going to clarify about the fat. What I mean by that is I don't think you should on purpose have a big amount of fat to mitigate and then have carbs. But I do think in the ordering of things like fiber and then protein fat and then carbs, I think that can work really well for a lot of people. He just talks about how it has the best effect on blood sugar levels, on hormone. Actually, when they mentioned the incretin, so just the different hormones that affect hunger and satiety, that pattern probably has the best effect on your overall appetite and just everything, blood sugar, all the things.
Barry Conrad
I think, I mean, the study definitely is like, it's more like a strong argument for personalized nutrition, like getting really personal about it. And another reminder, you know, why, you know, not all glucose spikes automatically mean something bad.
And that, you know, and also, it also makes me kind of go, oh, now you kind of know why some people swear by one way of eating. And another person says it like ruin their digestion because people just don't know.
Melanie Avalon
Exactly, exactly. And this is not the only study that's looked at this.
There have been a lot of studies looking, or I don't know if there's been a lot, but there definitely have been, Zoe did a study where they looked at people's blood glucose responses to different foods, and it was all over the place, all over the place. Some people, bananas were the best thing ever, other people that just shot their blood sugar through the roof, and then some people could eat cookies, and it was fine, but a grape would really bother them.
Barry Conrad
Great study, Mel. Now I want to know where I'm at.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, with like how you're responding to the different foods.
Barry Conrad
I don't feel, I mean, it's almost like if you don't feel bad, is it bad? You know what I mean? I don't feel.
Melanie Avalon
I think like, yeah, because the question is like, how intuitive can you be with all of this? I do think, I think if you're in a perpetually insulin resistant state, A, you're probably hungry, normal. I think it's harder to tell how things are affecting you if, if you're in a perpetually inflamed insulin resistant state, because you're just going to struggle in general, in general. So it can be hard to know like what's helping and what's not.
But if you're really insulin sensitive, then you probably for sure can tell because normally, you know, you would eat and be fine, but then you would notice like when it's different. I'm just thinking for me, like if I think of these different foods, I mean, I don't really eat. The only ones I eat from there are the berries. And that's just what works best for me, although that it is interesting that berries and beans, like I said, were the only ones where note for at least not that it was the lowest, but nobody had that as like the highest response for beans and berries.
Barry Conrad
Rice and potatoes were pretty high.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And again, especially if you're insulin resistant, potatoes were not the best.
Interestingly, I would not have predicted this. They said for rice, the Asian population from their group actually had the highest blood glucose response. And now I'm just going down a rabbit hole because at first you'd be like, well, the Asian population normally eats rice, so wouldn't they have like a lower response? But then also they said that the people who were most insulin sensitive responded the highest to grapes. So maybe, I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to think about it. Like maybe having like a high spike, but then it quickly resolves can be better depending on the situation. I mean, that's what I personally think for a lot of things. Like I would rather have some fruit and spike up and go down as long as it doesn't drop down too far and make me reactive hypoglycemic. But I would prefer that a spike and a drop and a lower area under the curve than just kind of like high for a while. And then now it's just like, not super high, but like high. I think that can potentially be more problematic.
Barry Conrad
Also, to me, it doesn't almost make any sense that they found it with the eye in Asian population eating rice, because you'd kind of think like even genetically, aren't they predisposed to digesting that while they eat so much rice. So it just kind of like doesn't kind of make sense in a way.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. Like maybe because I don't think they talk about the area under the curve. So it could be that they have a high blood glucose response, but then it quickly drops. So overall, they actually like processed it faster, basically, like, it went high, then it went low. I don't know, I'd have to like, I'd have to read this at the study and see if they talk about the area under the curve.
But regardless, the point is, the point is that people react differently to foods. If you're insulin resistant, that's not good. And these little, especially these little hacks and tricks, you really have to foundationally fix your insulin resistance. And then you'll, the good thing is, then things will work even better. So it can be like an upward, what's it an upward spiral? If you're working on insulin resistance, and fasting, one of the best ways to do that, because that literally forces your, you know, with fasting, it forces your body, your blood sugar to go down, tapping into a fat burning state, helps you process carbs better when you do eat them.
Barry Conrad
massive non-scale victory that people don't often talk about in the media.
Melanie Avalon
Yes. Okay.
Barry Conrad
Awesome study, Mel. It was so fascinating.
Melanie Avalon
Thank you, thank you, thank you. So on that note, shall we answer some listener questions?
Barry Conrad
Let's do it. And our first question is from Jahida and Jahida says, my name is pronounced as Jahida, smiley face. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
I am 35 years old. I joined the IF OMAD lifestyle in July. I have had amazing NSV success, non-scale victory success, but my favorite part of IF is how my body talks to me. I know to eat until I'm satisfied. I learned some foods make me sick. Some foods give me that blah feeling, but I feel amazing when I eat good, wholesome foods full of nutrition, especially avocado. I'm obsessed. I've never really paid attention to how I felt. And after three kids, 13 years old, 11 years old, and a six year old, my weight has been up and down. Since I was a little girl, I was raised with my mom who taught me how to survive on a budget. We lived a very poor life and my diet was basically Spanish rice, fried foods, ramen, and lots of bread, all carbs, except for the two meals. They fed us in school. Sad face emoji. Finally, my question is how does loose skin play play out in this lifestyle? I started off at my biggest, which is 248 pounds in 2015 and have fluctuated up and down using so many different diets out there today. I'm weighing in at 178 pounds. And when I started in July, I was 182 pounds. This being said, I have loose skin. What can I do to help me? Have you talked to any other IFAs who started off with a high weight, but lost a lot of weight and can share any tips? Are there any studies out there on loose skin? I've been taking college and supplements for three months, one hour prior to my OMAD and exercise, doing strength training three times a week for 30 minutes. Aside from my daily walk with the dogs, sorry for my question being too long and over the place, you're amazing. And I absolutely love listening to you every Monday to start a new week. Thank you for being there for us all.
Melanie Avalon
All right. So Jahaida, thank you so much for the question. So this is something that Jen Stevens used to talk about a lot when she hosted this with us, which because she had, you know, a massive group of people doing fasting who would report back with their experiences with fasting and a lot of people would lose weight really fast, have loose skin. And she would always say that a lot of them did experience either didn't get the loose skin like you would expect, or that it did eventually go away.
There is an idea out there that because of like the increased autophagy from intermittent fasting, which is like breaking down old problematic cells and proteins in the body that that might help with the excess loose skin. That said, there aren't a lot of like, really good studies on this. And it is very true that I'm having flashbacks now because I interviewed Joel Green forever ago, man, like 2019, I think. And he talks all the time about like the extracellular matrix, which is, it's like a surrounding part of the cell. And it can become with inflammation and like weight gain and weight loss, it can be basically become rigid, and then it's just kind of stuck. And that can be another reason that you might get this loose skin that doesn't seem to go away. I think, on the one hand, when you lose like a massive amount of weight and have like, you'll see people who like, you know, go from morbidly obese, and then they lose it all. And they just have these like these roles and roles of skin, that type of situation, really, you might want to go like, depending on your goals, the surgical route to remove that skin. That said, a slower, steadier approach, it is possible that it will go down, maybe away. You can do things to help. So strength training and building muscle can definitely help. The collagen supplementation, it might help. There's been some studies looking at taking it before exercise and saying that that might be helpful for that. So that's a possibility. I think in the end, it's more about time. So I think one of the most detrimental things for loose skin is like, when people yo-yo, so they like game weight, lose weight, game weight, lose weight, game weight, lose weight. If you want any chance of that skin going away without doing a surgical intervention, I think you really have to play the long game. So like, lose the weight and keep it off. And as time goes on, you know, your body will, you know, remodel. Unfortunately, with age, we lose skin elasticity, and we lose collagen production. And so anything you can do to support that would be helpful. So I would definitely look at things like red light therapy. And there are like skin tightening procedures that you can do that aren't surgical that you could look into. But it's something where I don't think there's, unless people, like I said, people will say that fasting helps.
Melanie Avalon
I haven't been there. So I haven't experienced the issue. So I can't speak to it personally.
It might help. If it's really bad, you might need to do a surgical intervention. But in the meantime, I would eat an anti-inflammatory diet, do things like red light therapy, do strength training, all the things. And also congrats on your weight loss in general. And I think it's great that you with fasting, you it's kind of we're talking about before before this about how you need to be intuitive and like know what foods work for you. And you said that you've learned that some foods make you sick and some make you feel blah and some make you feel amazing. So that's incredible that you're having that intuition. So I would just like keep on that train, eat intuitively in a way that feels good in your body and see what time does. So Barry, what are your thoughts?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, Mel, you answered that so comprehensively. It was so great.
Johaida, thank you so much for sharing your story. You know, I'll echo what Mel said about strength training. It's a massive deal because building muscle underneath can really change the look aesthetically and feel of the body over, again, that word time, time, time, time, the long game. Walking is great. Protein is very important. Hydration is very important. I'm glad also, Mel, that you talked about autophagy because I do believe, you know, that began playing the long game, intermittent fasting can help, you know, our bodies do rebuild. Again, what Mel said, too, is whatever you can do to assist that. Naturally, that's great. But again, if you want to get rid of or not have the loose skin in the short term, then you may need to go the surgical route.
You know, like, we don't have enough, as Mel said, we don't have enough studies to fully say if you do intermittent fasting for this amount of years, autophagy will cause this to happen, for example. So at the end of the day, you've had this massive transformation. And this is the reason why you even have this. So cutest to your massive weight loss, it's incredible. Seriously, it's a massive transformation. Yeah, it sounds like you're doing the right things. Let us know what you decide to do if you want to. And keep us posted. I mean, again, I just encourage you with the long game. It's the long game.
Melanie Avalon
All righty, shall we answer another listener question?
Barry Conrad
Yes.
Melanie Avalon
So we will answer one more listener question, and this comes from Amy, and it's a simple question, but it's, is Kale good for me or bad for me? I have heard arguments both ways.
Barry Conrad
Anyway, I actually have kale at least once a week and I usually have it in a curry or like a stir-fry or stew and I think kale has become one of those foods that people, some people can project all their nutritional fears onto. I think it's like once one week it's a superfood, the next week it's apparently trying to destroy your thyroid or the reality is for most people it's incredibly nutrient dense and absolutely fine.
It's loaded with fiber for one, you know, vitamins K, C, A, antioxidants and compounds that support so much detoxification pathway. So where some of the quote-unquote bad for you situation like that conversation comes from, Amy is that kale's a cruciferous vegetable. So it contains compounds called goitrogens, am I saying that right Mel, goitrogens?
Melanie Avalon
Yes, oitrogens.
Barry Conrad
So it contains compounds called goitrogens which can interfere with thyroid function in very large amounts. So, Amy, I don't know how much Kelle you're eating on the daily, but if you're eating pots and pots and pots of it, maybe I would avoid that. But I mean, it can interfere with thyroid function in very large amounts, especially if someone already has thyroid issues and is now deciding to throw a ton of that into their daily diet. But we're talking about extremes.
And most people are not sitting down eating industrial quantities of raw kale smoothies, you know, downing that all day. And cooking reduces a lot of those compounds anyway. So my take, I mean, it's really simple. I don't really, I don't think it's that bad. I'm guessing you're not an extremist. So I don't think you should worry. Melanie, what do you think?
Melanie Avalon
So I have interesting thoughts about kale. So I think the reason that this became an idea that they are the kale is bad for you is because there was like this massive trend of like kale smoothies. I don't know if it's still happening, but I just remember like there was a moment where it was like all the kale smoothies all the time and like kale smoothies are going to save you. And so people were eating like massive amounts of kale that they would not have normally been eating like out in the wild without seeming like you're eating a lot because it's all like juiced into or, you know, made into a smoothie.
And the concerns are goitrogen are goitrogens and oxalates. The goitrogens I do think are probably less of a concern. People will say that they inhibit thyroid function. I do know that there was like, I think there was a study that kind of made this a big deal because there was like a woman who was eating, I don't know how much she was eating, but it was like some massive amount and it made her like severely hypothyroid or something. So people would talk about that. I do think for most people, the goitrogens aren't as much as an issue, especially because you get so many other benefits from cruciferous vegetables.
And cruciferous vegetables are the ones that have goitrogens in them. The oxalates I actually do think can be a problem. So I interviewed Sally Norton in 2021. I can put a link to it in the show notes. And she makes the case that a lot of people have oxalate built up in the body. And when people think of oxalates, they think of like kidneys, kidney stones and things like that, which if you're having kidney stones, you probably have a problem with oxalates. So if you've ever had kidney stones or anything related to that, I would not eat high oxalate foods. I actually wouldn't. I think it actually can be pretty dangerous.
So if you get my app called FoodSense Guide, you can look up all these foods and you can see which ones have oxalates in them or not. It also looks at like, how many? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Ten other, oh, 12, sorry. 12 different other compounds. So amines, fodmaps, gluten, glutamates, histamine, lectins, salicylates, sulfite styles, nightshades, oxalates, and whether or not they are autoimmune paleo. If you've had kidney stones, I would definitely, I would not eat high oxalate foods. I also think, especially interviewing Sally Norton, I think a lot of people have a lot of health issues that could be from oxalates and they don't realize it, including osteopenia, osteoporosis, fibromyalgia, arthritis, these can actually come from an oxalate overload. And something that Sally talks about is the importance of reducing oxalate intake and removing oxalates from your body. But she also talks about how if you have a high oxalate load and then you go onto a low oxalate diet, your body will start, because basically the oxalates are like these crystals that are sharp, like literally physically sharp and toxic to the body and the body will store them to protect you.
Melanie Avalon
And so when you start, if you cut out all oxalates, you start dumping these stored oxalates that you have and people can actually feel pretty sick. So she has a whole protocol where you like slowly reduce, I think you slowly reduce your oxalate intake.
The point is, I actually, I don't think any one food is good or any one food is bad. I do understand why with kale, on the one hand, it seems like a superfood, like it has all these incredible nutrients. And on the other hand, it's like, it's the worst thing ever. I think for some people, it can be problematic. So it's going to depend on you. Might not be problematic at all. You might not have an oxalate overload problem. You might eat it in not egregiously huge amounts and be fine. But there's so many other different manifestations of how people's relationship with oxalates and food can manifest. And what I mean by that is, you could have different levels of oxalates, you could eat different amounts of oxalate, heavy foods. So the answer is, there is not an answer. It is not good, it is not bad. It depends on you and your body.
But I do think oxalates are pretty bad.
Barry Conrad
I'm glad you swooped in there with that, Kevin, about the ox lice as well. That's really interesting. And also very important to know. Yeah.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I actually think it could be a huge problem for a lot of people and they don't even realize it. Like that was one of the interviews that has stuck with me for so long where I'm like, wow, like I wonder how many people this is affecting and they don't even know.
So I don't want to underplay, you know, feel like, oh, all the kale is fine all the time because it actually might not be, but it might be. All right, shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast?
Barry Conrad
Yes, let's do it.
Melanie Avalon
Alrighty, so the purpose of this part of the show is that the magic of fasting is not just the fasting. It is also in the eating window. So we like to find restaurants that we would like to try and talk about them and talk about what we would eat to break our proverbial hypothetical fast.
Barry Conrad
Yes. Mel, I am so excited about this restaurant this week.
I don't often choose restaurants in this vicinity in California, and I've chosen one in Beverly Hills called Ocean Prime. Have you heard of this place?
Melanie Avalon
Okay, let me see because, you know, I lived in LA for 10 years.
Barry Conrad
They have different locations in different parts of the U.S., but this is the one, this is the one, apparently, to go to.
Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna see where it actually is.
Barry Conrad
you might know where it is. Maybe you've been there. But for listeners, Ocean Prime is in Beverly Hills.
It's described as a modern American classic known for seafood and steak, done at a super high level. It's fully a la carte with amazing luxury, crowd pleasing dishes. The wine list is meant to be polished, extensive, strong in Napa for dough and champagne, consistently ranked as one of the best special occasion restaurants in the US. And it's the vibe is meant to be sleek, dimly lit, refined, and a go to for celebrations, which sounds like our vibe.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder if I've been here. So I'm seeing where it is. And the thing about Beverly Hills is there's like the triangle, which is basically like, I mean, Beverly Hills is bigger than that. But that's where all the stuff is.
And I used to intern there. So I used to intern right by here. I don't think I've been there. I haven't eaten there. But I have I
Barry Conrad
Have you seen it this place?
Melanie Avalon
Well, I've definitely probably driven and walked by it. I don't think so. But it definitely looks like a vibe that I would like.
Barry Conrad
It looks really good and if you look at the dinner menu, it looks delicious.
Melanie Avalon
I might have been to the bar here.
Barry Conrad
I know that you said you like to go to restaurant bars. You know bars at restaurants are so underrated, you're right.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, they're like my favorite. Well, what is the first thing on the menu? Shocker.
Barry Conrad
surprise surprise surprise oysters on the half shell but I'm gonna I'm gonna invite you to have a gander at that and see if anything catches your eye from the on ice menu Mel
Melanie Avalon
Are you going to get oysters on the half shell?
Barry Conrad
Of course. Yes.
And other things. Does anything else, does anything look good to you from that section? Also, there's not that many. Like, I don't think I've seen a menu that has an on ice section. Maybe it's called something else, but I like that.
Melanie Avalon
I see one of my favorite appetizers, so.
Barry Conrad
I think I know what it is. What is it? Jumbo Shrimp Cocktail.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I love a good jumbo shrimp cocktail, especially if they're like large shrimps, jumbo.
Barry Conrad
See if the jumbo is not just the glass, it's the actual shrimp.
Melanie Avalon
I wonder what the smoking shellfish tower is. It says custom built. What does that mean?
Barry Conrad
Does that mean we get to have a say in what we...
Melanie Avalon
Maybe that would be great because if that's the case we could like because I they also have king crab legs and they have cold water lobster tail so maybe we should do maybe that can we like build it ourselves.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, let's assume. Let's just like pretend this is the deal.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, I guess we would put everything. I mean, we definitely want the shrimp. I want a lobster tail and crab legs and you want oysters.
Barry Conrad
Rosé. What's Rosé and Garnet? What's that? I don't know.
Okay. But I think, yeah, I think definitely all of that. We could easily eat all of that while we just kind of chat and check out the rest of the menu.
Melanie Avalon
I remember every time when I worked at Flemings and was it Flemings that had, yeah, they had a really intense seafood tower and I would always get really nervous when people would order it because the price is kind of like here, the price isn't on it and it is so expensive and I'd always be like, I hope they know how much this is, like when they're ordering it.
Barry Conrad
How much do towers go for?
Melanie Avalon
I don't it depended what you got on it. But I mean, it could easily be over like $100 for just that tower, which is like an appetizer.
So I was always just like, I really hope I did, I did find that the type of people who order seafood towers tend to be familiar with it. So I don't remember having that many moments where people, you know, got upset.
Barry Conrad
It's more like you're just wondering like, I hope you know how much this cost, cause uh.
Melanie Avalon
It's either for a server, it's either a really good thing or a really bad thing. It's a really good thing if they know and they're down because they're probably going to have a high check and they're probably going to tip you well.
The flip side is people who don't know and then they get sticker shock and then they make up for it by tipping lists.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's so you don't want that situation going beneath the smoking shellfish tower.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, we are using the correct terminology.
Barry Conrad
I knew that you'd say that. And listeners, by that, Melanie means it's called appetizers and entrees.
In Australia, entrees is the appetizers. And then our entrees, American style, is called manes in Australia. So Melanie's very happy with this.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but we have agreed that we go by the menu. We've spent so much energy being like, are we going to do appetizers or entrees or mains or what? We'll just go by the menu.
Just go in. Let's let the house decide.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, that's true.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so appetizers. Oh, I see what I want. This is easy.
Barry Conrad
Are you getting the stakes that's off?
Melanie Avalon
Oh yes, the prime steak tartare with caper, shallots, and crostini all on the side please.
Barry Conrad
Yum. I am going to go for the Point Judith Kalamari. I love Kalamari so much.
So I'm going to go for that. And then also the Ahi Tuna. OK, the Point Judith Kalamari with sweet chili sauce, and then the Ahi Tuna Tata, which is avocado, ginger, ponzu, and sesame seeds.
Melanie Avalon
I'm assuming it's GFM gluten free. Is that what that means? I don't know what the M is though. I think so.
Barry Conrad
Gluten-free meal? Gluten-free...
Melanie Avalon
I know. What's the M? Well, here it is. Oh, can be made gluten free with modifications.
Barry Conrad
Oh, gluten-free, modified or whatever.
Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, so the prime steak tartare cannot be modified to be gluten free? That's confusing. How is that even possible? I don't believe them. They can talk to me. It'll be fine. We'll figure it out.
Barry Conrad
If they can build a tower, they can, surely they can.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, the shrimp cocktail. Yeah, we're good. Okay. Are you gonna get some sushi?
Barry Conrad
Seeing as I'm at Ocean Prime, I'm going to probably go for the Ocean Roll, which is their number one tuna, salmon, hamachi, avocado, chili garlic oil roll. So I'm going to go for that because it's in the name, Ocean, doing it.
Melanie Avalon
I would get the sashimi, which is number one, ahi salmon, hamachi, ponzu, carrot salad, although I actually, I feel horrible, I don't, is hamachi and ponzu, are those, what is that?
Barry Conrad
So a hamachi is Japanese amberjack yellowtail.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, okay. I'm looking it up to. Okay. Popular buttery fish used in sashimi. Let's see how it goes on the mercury front. It is, oh, generally low to moderate, making it safer than high mercury, like swordfish.
Well, that's not much of a comparison because swordfish is like out the roof. The other one was ponzu. Yeah. Oh, it's a, it's a sauce. So basically if we get that, I will definitely have the salmon and maybe I'll like taste the hamachi, but would you like some of the hamachi?
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll take it. That's one benefit of eating with me. I'm usually game to have the leftovers or whatever someone doesn't want most times.
Melanie Avalon
Is there anything you won't eat? Well, we know that you don't like the birds that are not chicken. The quail and the peasant and the pigeons.
Barry Conrad
Pigeons, no rodents, no, no rodents, no rats or anything, but people eat rats and dogs and not obviously not here, but that I know of, but I would eat most things.
Melanie Avalon
Is there anything like just like comes to your mind like no, I wouldn't eat that. That's like a normal thing.
Not like a rodent. Actually, no. There's not a food that you don't like. That's like a normal food.
Barry Conrad
No, because even the ones that I don't like I would still eat like there's nothing that I there's certain things that I wouldn't like go out of my way to order but if it's there I'd eat it but there's nothing that I would be like I don't eat that.
Melanie Avalon
So you're probably, yeah, like we established, you're not a super taster.
Barry Conrad
But I taste foods intensely and I love the taste.
Melanie Avalon
I know I think I think we're the same I think we're both like medium like I think we're right in the sweet spot where like we really taste the food and flavors but we're not such a super taster that we get turned off by certain things.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, I was going to ask you if there's any food that you own, but I know one of the answers to that already.
Melanie Avalon
What is that? Oysters. Oysters, olives.
Barry Conrad
Muscles
Melanie Avalon
I will try mussels. I haven't had mussels before so I can't comment yet. I will try that because I can't comment yet. The only ones that I know I don't like are olives, oysters.
Barry Conrad
Oh, is this so good on a charcuterie board or in a martini? Hmm, interesting.
Melanie Avalon
Although I should retry them now, maybe I like them now, maybe.
Barry Conrad
Do you like any of the, I feel like you're not really a scoop and sell gal. Do you like anything on that?
Melanie Avalon
I think I'm good. How about you?
Barry Conrad
I may do the lobster bisque because I do like a good little chowder vibe, so I'll just have that to taste. But moving on from that section into the seafood heaven.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, I need to get my bearings. I need to look at the... Okay, so there's seafood, there's chicken and chops, there's prime steaks, and then there's accessories and there's sides.
Okay. So now are we looking... Are we like zooming out and looking at all of that?
Barry Conrad
I think let's zoom out and look at all the main events here because otherwise you'd be eating everything unless that's what you want to do.
Melanie Avalon
I mean, yes, but okay, let me take this all in. That's a lot.
Barry Conrad
A lot of good options.
Melanie Avalon
So they do have something that is one of my historical favorite things, but I don't actually eat it now. Well, part of it is one of my favorite things. Actually, there's a few things that I absolutely love, but I don't eat them anymore.
Which ones? I think if, okay, so if I'm going to go through like categories of, not categories, like a certain type of dish, there are two dish types that just light me up, like I could dream about them. And like they're like a style of a dish, I guess. The linguine? No, one of these things, which is not on this menu, but I literally, I love it so much that I googled like this as a cupcake to be like, is this a thing?
Barry Conrad
Is it the, no, I don't know. I don't know which one. Is it the, the corn spoon bread?
Melanie Avalon
No, should I tell you? So I love teriyaki.
What's wrong with teriyaki? I mean, it's basically like sugar. So like back in the day, like chicken teriyaki, anything teriyaki, I love. Anything teriyaki and anything Alfredo. So the other night I Googled, I was like Alfredo cupcakes and there are recipes for it.
Barry Conrad
Alfredo cupcakes? Yeah. That's not what I was expecting you to say. That's because it's like a savory vibe to me.
Melanie Avalon
I know. This happens.
I think of things I really like, and I'm like, what if that was like, what if I combine two things I like, like cupcakes and alfredo? So yes, so teriyaki salmon looks really promising, however, I will not be getting that. I think I'm going to go the, well, I know we're at an ocean restaurant, you don't know.
Barry Conrad
and a half status seafood.
Melanie Avalon
Maybe, maybe I would get twin lobster tails. Yum. I don't get that very much and I think I really like it.
Barry Conrad
Lobster's amazing. It just never, never lets you down. Ever.
Melanie Avalon
And again, another food that tastes nothing like you think it's going to taste like.
Barry Conrad
It's so sweet and delicious. Yeah, it's really great buttery, you know.
Melanie Avalon
And I know how to de-shell a lobster tail since I had to do that as a server.
Barry Conrad
Are you good?
Melanie Avalon
Good enough.
Barry Conrad
Well, you might have to do my one.
Melanie Avalon
I can de-shell your lobster tail for you.
Barry Conrad
A bit you like do it like a boss, like real quick, done.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you have to basically you put the fork in the like lobster to hold it and then you just take your knife and you just like slice off that little piece that's holding it to the tail and then you pick and then you're supposed to like pick it up a certain way with the utensils. I don't remember now, but it's a whole thing.
Barry Conrad
Wow, look at you. Okay. Well, I'm going to get the loves details as well. Are you going to get anything extra? Another, like another.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, I think I'm going to go like the surf and turf route. So I will get the twin lobster tails and oh, backtrack. That's an option. So stop.
I'm not getting twin lobster tails. I'm going to get a steak and add a lobster tail because they have that as an add-on. So I will get the, I want a fillet. I think I'll get a, oh, what's that? I have to look this up. A Piedmontese fillet.
Barry Conrad
I've actually never seen that before.
Melanie Avalon
and exceptionally lean, tender, healthy beef from Italy's Piedmont region, cattle known for their unique muscle structure with virtually no fat. Whoa! Low in calories and the fat that is there is very juicy. It's usually grass-fed.
Oh, wait. Oh, it can be grass-fed, grass-finished or grain-finished. Okay, but regardless, that's a winner. I'm happy. I'm gonna get the eight ounce Piedmontese filet and I'm gonna add a lobster tail. Perfect. And I'm gonna get it blue, as blue and rare as they will bring it. Yes. Oh, I'm excited. Now I'm gonna start looking for this on menus.
Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, I've never heard of Piedmontese. Okay, now something new, there we go.
I would do the double lobster tails for sure and then also the rack of lamb, because I love lamb so much. And then I would get on the side baked lobster mac and cheese. I love mac and cheese so much. That's what I would get.
Melanie Avalon
So my question for you is you can't eat pigeons, but you can eat lamb. Like if we're talking about like really cute little animals.
Barry Conrad
are not cute to me they
Melanie Avalon
They're not? No, not really. They're just like not like, they're not food to you.
Barry Conrad
I don't know where this comes, but it must be in that story that I told you about the bakery thing where I had the pie that.
Melanie Avalon
for listeners basically, what was it? You had really off chicken? Was that it?
Barry Conrad
I went to a bakery it was a pie and i feel like the quote unquote chicken pie was not chicken.
Melanie Avalon
And you're like, to this day, you're like, maybe it was pigeon.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, it could be not real at all.
Melanie Avalon
Well, we're going to have pigeon together.
Barry Conrad
But lamb is delicious, and especially because living in New Zealand for so long, it's just delicious over there. There's no place on Earth that does lamb, then you like New Zealand. So I've just always loved it.
Melanie Avalon
I bet super tasters don't like lamb because it has that really specific taste, you know, that like taste. We've talked about this. Like it has that taste.
Barry Conrad
Is this like how you say fish can be fishy? Or chicken can be chickeny and lamb can be lamby? It's like.
Melanie Avalon
You know what I mean? Here's my example.
If there was a lot of red meat on the table and you don't know what's what, like you don't know if it's beef or buffalo or bison or boar or elk or lamb, I feel like most people probably could not match up all of them. I feel like I might could match up a lot of them. However, I think most people could pick out the lamb because it has that taste, that lamb taste. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Barry Conrad
I do. And it also does look different as well. It does definitely has a taste.
Melanie Avalon
It's like a how would you describe it? It's like a gamey gamey fishy gamey.
Barry Conrad
But no, the fish, I still can't get my head on the fishy. This fish tastes like fishy, like what do you mean?
Melanie Avalon
Fishy, people know what fishy is. Fishy is like that, like I've said before, it's when you get everything that you don't like about the ocean in a taste and fish.
And for me, I eat fish while I eat scallops every night. Actually, I eat fish every most nights. And sometimes there'll be like a weird smell in my trash the next day. That's like, that's fishy, but it's only like sometimes.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, but that that's like so gross because it's like left out there. But I mean, if it's just freshly made, you know, like chicken, comfy chicken, even. That's true.
Melanie Avalon
I stand by my fishiness.
Barry Conrad
Sound bites. There we go. I stand by my effectiveness. I do.
Melanie Avalon
Okay, so you got what you got the we've got the lobster Mac or the normal Mac Wait, no potatoes. What'd you get?
Barry Conrad
I got the Recolam, the lobster, twin lobster tails, and the baked lobster mac and cheese on the side. And then is there dessert? Should we look at the dessert menu?
Melanie Avalon
Oh, yes, let us look
Barry Conrad
I don't know what I'm getting. Do you want to guess?
Melanie Avalon
I do want to guess, are you getting the chocolate peanut butter pie? Yes. Yes.
Barry Conrad
And also the creme brulee, because I love creme brulee.
Melanie Avalon
That's nice. It bounces out like you get the chocolate and the vanilla.
Barry Conrad
and that you're going to have one of the previous courses that you really liked.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so if I were ordering a dessert, I would get the 10 layer carrot cake because I love carrot cake. However, I probably would get a for dessert.
Assuming they made the tartare for me, I might get like another one of those. I might get some more shrimp or some, or some sashimi. I would just get like a second round of something.
Barry Conrad
And anything to drink, there's the one list.
Melanie Avalon
Oh, look what they have. Do you see it Barry at the top?
Barry Conrad
the wine of the cocktails.
Melanie Avalon
At the top of the wine list, what do you see?
Barry Conrad
de blanc de blancs.
Melanie Avalon
You know, you just passed right by it. You like the first thing on the menu.
Barry Conrad
The Champagne.
Melanie Avalon
No. The first thing on the menu.
I'm going to see how long it takes for... I think you're just not going to see it. The wine or the cocktails? The wine. Coravin. The Coravin. I've been telling you about this.
Barry Conrad
Tell me again, remind me, remind me.
Melanie Avalon
It's the system where you can, it like drills a hole into the wine bottle and lets you... So basically it allows them, yeah, so basically you can like taste these wines that would be really expensive and they're probably not selling them as like, they're not going through the wine fast enough to preserve it normally. So they use this Coravin system that lets you pull wine out of the bottle and then preserve the rest of the wine in the bottle.
And I've actually started using it, so I wasn't really using my Coravin that often, but then you know how I was talking to bring everything full circle at the beginning about how I've been researching and ordering wines that I don't know if they're going to be okay for me or not because it's not dry farm wines. So what I've started doing, because what I do now is if I order a wine that I research and I feel good about, but then I don't like it, I just give it away. So now I've realized when I don't know if it's not a dry farm wines, it's a wine that I'm trying, I use my Coravin system to taste it. So then if I don't like it, then it's like I never opened it and then I can give it away and I don't have to worry about like giving it away really quickly because it's preserved.
Barry Conrad
That's such a good option to have, by the way.
Melanie Avalon
I love core events. They're awesome.
Barry Conrad
And I totally bypassed it. Sorry. Coravin.
Melanie Avalon
I was like, I don't think he's actually going to see it. Like your mind was incapable of seeing it.
Barry Conrad
even though it's massive font.
Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Weird that they have the Justin on the Coravin list. I would not consider that a Coravin wine.
I'm very familiar with that wine. Okay. So I think for me, let me look, as per usual with Los Angeles restaurants, it's a very California heavy list. I think we're going to have to go buy the bottle. So I'm going to have to do a lot of research and figure out which bottle, but I'm sure I can find one. But by the glass list, I don't really see anything.
Barry Conrad
Nice. I'm going to have to go with, again, I'm just going to do something different and ask them what they recommend in the way of white wine, perfectly like a Pinot Grigio, and then I'll get a bottle of that.
Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Let me see what Pinot Grigio they have. If I, I've, I've had like the, the king estate. Is that good? I think it's sustainable. Maybe it might actually be organic, but yeah, I think this is a buy the bottle type place for me.
Is there a cocktail?
Barry Conrad
Well, of cocktails, if it's, hold on a second, I got cocktails. Cocktail definitely will be getting the
Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, pause. I looked it up. I was right. I don't want to say it if I wasn't sure.
But yes, the King of State Pinot Gris is biodynamic. So that's a good option. I would have some of that one for sure.
Barry Conrad
Yeah, get a bottle of that and then I'm definitely going to get a tequila premier cocktail, which is fresh azul anegio tequila, dos jombres mezcal, fresh agave, onasturro and orange bitters. I'll have that to start and then have the bottle of pina grigio chilled right there.
Okay, yes. I'm so hungry again now. I want some seafood. I want some lobster.
Melanie Avalon
Are you going to eat again?
Barry Conrad
I would like to, but I don't know, I went to work up really early this morning and went to bed kind of late, so I don't know if I'll be able to, but maybe we'll see, see how we go.
Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Let me know if you do. And good choice for the restaurant. We should go. Especially because there's so many locations. Is there one in New York?
Barry Conrad
Yes, there is one in New York, actually, there actually is one.
Melanie Avalon
You should go. Yeah.
Can I tell you? So like I'm always looking at different restaurants and I feel like there's so many ones in New York and I'm like, if I was Barry, like I could just go to all these places all the time.
Barry Conrad
You got to tell me, you're going to send me any recs that you see that you're like, you got to go there.
Melanie Avalon
The thing is I save them like for this show, but I should just like send them to you, you can go.
Barry Conrad
I'll go to some of them anyway.
Melanie Avalon
Yes, awesome, okay. Well friends, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode. The show notes for today's episode will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 480. That will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out.
And if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and submit questions there. And lastly, you can follow us on Instagram. We are I Have Podcast, I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. Yeah, I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?
Barry Conrad
That's all the things. Thank you again so much everyone for tuning in and we'll catch you next week.
Melanie Avalon
I will talk to you next week.
Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week, Mel, bye.
Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes.
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