The Intermittent Fasting Podcast

Welcome to Special Guest Episode 431 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

Dr. Courtney Peterson is an Associate Professor in Nutrition Sciences at the University of Alabama at Birmingham and an internationally-recognized researcher in the field of intermittentfasting and meal timing. Dr. Peterson conducted some of the first studies of a type of intermittent fasting called time-restricted eating (TRE; daily intermittent fasting) in humans. Her research has shown that iTRE induces weight loss, alters hunger, improves blood sugar, lowers blood pressure, decreases oxidative stress, and activates anti-aging pathways—and that many of these effects are independent of weight loss. Currently, she is the lead or co-lead scientist on some of the largest studies of intermittent fasting in humans, including in patients with type 2 diabetes, prediabetes, and cancer. Her research has been featured in more than 100 media outlets, including NBC Nightly News, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, TheWashington Post, Good Morning America, and the BBC.

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TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 431 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine. If it's that time, then get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Barry Conrad
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Barry Conrad, and this is episode number 431. I'm genuinely stoked about today's episode. It's a special one.

A little while ago, a bit of backstory here for you. I was trying to do a deep dive into some intermittent fasting research, and I came across this study. And I could only find the abstract, and so it had an email, and I reached out to this person. And I'm like, hey, do you have the study, the full thing? And she's like, well, actually, it's a series of studies that I've done, but I'd love to actually be on your podcast if you'd have me. And the person I'm talking about is internationally renowned researcher Dr. Courtney Peterson. Welcome to the show, Courtney.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Thank you, Barry and Melanie, for having me here.

Barry Conrad
It's such a pleasure to have you here. We we always bring a study to start our show off.

And so I was really, really interested in what I found. I mean, you trained in metabolism and nutrition at Pennington Biomedical Research Center, and in chronobiology at Brigham and Women's Hospital. Let's go right to the beginning. What sparked your interest in terminal fasting? And what point did that start? Let's go all the way to the beginning.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, so 17 years ago, a long time ago, I was in graduate school for physics. And this was the sort of dawn of podcasts. And I remember one day just being in the kitchen, and I heard a podcast about a new study, where they had asked people to eat in a four hour window, and fast the remaining 20 hours a day. And on the podcast, they said, Oh, the participants, they, the people in the study, they had so many different benefits, it was great for their health. And I thought, Wow, that sounds extreme, but I've never shied away from anything that was extreme.

And I thought, Well, that sounds really interesting. And then over the next maybe two or three years, I got really intrigued by the power of fasting. And this was all through, you know, just reading health forums online. And, and I got to thinking, okay, other types of fasting, I mean, it would be wonderful to do periodic water only fast for a few days at a time, but that's probably too extreme for most people. So if you wanted to get the most anti aging benefits, what should you do? And I sort of came to the conclusion, the answer is probably daily intermittent fasting, because you can do it more often and get a little bit of the benefit every day. And so around I guess this was 2010, I started practicing it myself and was quite impressed. And then in 2011, I switched careers and knew I wanted to study either intermittent fasting or healthy diets. And I reached out to one of the first researchers who had done an intermittent fasting study in humans and joined his lab. And the rest is sort of history. And that launched my career till today where I run I now run one of the largest research labs in the world that studies intermittent fasting in humans.

Barry Conrad
That's incredible. Going back to switching to nutrition, you mentioned previously that you were interested in astrophysics.

What's the connection between astrophysics? How did you get from there to nutrition? It's a bit of fasting. That's a big chasm. What happened there?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
No natural leap there, but I was studying the physics of the early universe less than a second after the Big Bang. Why do we think there are galaxies and clusters of galaxies in the universe today? I just got to the end of my work and I realized most of probably our theories of the early universe are going to be wrong.

At the time, I was influenced by graduation speeches by Steve Jobs where he was saying if he had too many days in a row where if he died the next day, he wouldn't be happy with what he was working on. My version of this was if I fast-forwarded 30 years from now and I look back on my career and I had failed, would I be glad I took the risk? I couldn't say that for astrophysics and I'd always been interested in nutrition. I even really was interested in bodybuilding for a while in my teens, so I just made the switch because I just realized that food has such a powerful ability to serve as medicine. I really wanted to help that field advance and help save more lives.

Barry Conrad
That's incredible. Bodybuilding, even, that's not something that I saw you saying on this podcast. What's the deal there?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
I did for a short stint in middle school, and this was back in the 80s when my parents didn't know what to do with a teenage girl interested in weightlifting, but I still carry my knowledge of rep ranges and weight ranges and set ranges for different, you know, growth versus strength versus power targets. But just to say, I've always been really impressed and fascinated by how powerful lifestyle approaches are for improving our health and slowing the aging process.

Barry Conrad
Right. And not only are you the principal investigator for several clinical trials on time restricted eating, and as you said, like one of the largest labs, what have been some of the most surprising findings or challenges from leading studies of like the scale, like such a massive scale?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, so I'll even just start with a little bit of background on intermittent fasting that's pertinent to aging. Some of the first research done on intermittent fasting actually dates back to the 1940s. It was based on work in the 1930s showing that eating a low-calorie diet, which we now call calorie restriction, which your listeners can just think of as standard calorie counting, so eating fewer calories extends lifespan. It does so quite powerfully. It dramatically slows the aging process. If you do this in mice and rats, they can live up to 40% longer, which is huge. Back in the 1930s and 40s, they were like, well, I don't know if people will do this. I wonder if people would do calorie restriction or calorie counting intermittently and whether it could still extend lifespan. One of the first studies that was actually done on intermittent fasting was done in the late 40s. They found, indeed, that if you fast periodically, so not all the time, that it actually did extend lifespan, and it also reduced the rate at which the rats developed cancer, too.

It had other benefits in proving healthspan. Then research petered along for several decades. Then around the turn of the century, in 2003, there was a very famous scientist who we often think of as the founder, the modern-day father of intermittent fasting research, Mark Mattson. He was having a debate with one of his researchers in the lab. They were debating whether the benefits of calorie restriction were, indeed, due to the animals eating less or if it was because they were eating all their food so quickly, so inadvertently fasting for longer each day. They put this to the test, and they did a study, and they found, actually, that it looks like intermittent fasting has benefits independent of how much you eat, that there's something special about having periodic fasting that can improve brain health and blood sugar control in this particular study. Then fast forward to 2018, and there was a study showing that, actually, in fact, at least 40% of the life-extending benefits of calorie restriction or calorie counting are not due to eating less. They're due to having a longer fasting period. Then, just two years ago, we've actually learned that intermittent fasting is actually more powerful than cutting calories for extending lifespan, at least in animals. We now have four or five different studies showing that intermittent fasting, particularly daily intermittent fasting, extends lifespan in animals. That's where the animal research takes us today, and then I'm happy also to talk about some of the human research, too, but I'll pause there.

Barry Conrad
Right. Well, you know, Mark Metzen, as you mentioned, you know, he had that study, the OMAD study with three meals a day, over 11 days, and you know, with equal calories in both groups, and how they found that the greater weight and they had greater weight in fat loss, but also greater loss in lean mass and bone density.

So from then to now, has the research and the findings changed? Because for someone like myself, I do OMAD, I am big in the gym, I'm all about protein, all about muscle, and I bring that to the podcast as a co-host. Do I have something to be afraid of, Courtney, in terms of losing muscle? Because I don't actually find that I do lose muscle. I find that fasting has been really protective of muscles. So yeah.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, the answers depends on how long you fast. So the best research we have suggests that as long as you're fasting for not longer than 36 hours at a time, there's no issue with losing muscle mass.

My lab has shown this. We at one point had the largest data on muscle mass and body fat in individuals, and we found absolutely no negative effects on muscle mass. There was another really great study that looks specifically at muscle protein synthesis, and they found that it does not negatively affect muscle protein synthesis. The one small thing that happens is when you do intermittent fasting, you lose a little bit more, what's called body water, but a little bit more fluid. Now for a lot of people, they're excited about this because it means you're basically retaining less fluid and you're less bloated. And one of the benefits of retaining less food is it actually drops your blood pressure too, which is awesome. So it in particular decreases something called extracellular water. So in some of these studies, the effects they're finding on muscle mass could just be to losing some extra body water because it's such a small effect. For longer periods of fasting, like 36 hours, there is data suggesting that people are losing a little bit more lean mass. So I don't recommend fasting longer than 36 hours.

But one more encouraging piece of data is there now have been probably close to a dozen studies in athletes or resistance trained athletes. And those studies found absolutely no negative effects of intermittent fasting on your ability to have strength gains, or your ability to build muscle, or your ability to perform during any sort of athletic feat.

So no super positive effects either, but at least there are no negative effects there. So you can do intermittent fasting and train as usual.

Barry Conrad
That's really good news for me. You know, a lot of gym bureaus or people that know that I do intermittent fasting, particularly guys in the social media space, fitness influencers or whatnot, they're like, that's misinformation.

You need to eat before you train. How can you fast? So the science is constantly showing that's not the case. You don't need to feel your muscles right before going to the gym or even consume protein right after the gym, right after resistance training. Right.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Correct. Yeah. The one caveat I will say is we don't know yet, we don't have good data on OMAD. We know for other forms of daily intermittent fasting, like if you're eating in an eight hour window, a 10 hour window and a six hour window, none of those windows seem to have any negative effects on muscle mass. So meaning if you're fasting for up to 18 hours a day, there are no issues.

We just, we only have like a very small number of studies on OMAD, so we don't know for certain. And the reason I bring that up for OMAD is because I guess classically people have thought, okay, you need to space your protein throughout the day. And there's sort of people have often cited a threshold of you can only absorb, you know, up to like 40 grams per meal, but you need to space it out throughout the day. So there may be something there, but we just don't know the answers yet. But most research suggests absolutely no problem.

Barry Conrad
Before we get into aging a bit more, we actually get a lot of questions, Courtney, on the podcast about, you know, should I do longer fasts? For example, 24 to 48 hours, do you think those have unique anti-aging benefits over daily eye protocols such as like an 18.6 or 19.5 or 24, and if, yes, how so?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Such a great question. A hard question to answer too.

So let me give you examples of certain types of intermittent fasting. So fasting one day a week for 24 hours, we do find that lowers body weight, helps people lose weight. It also helps lower blood sugar levels and it reduces the risk of something we call metabolic syndrome, but you can just think of things like high blood pressure, cholesterol levels, elevated blood sugar levels. That said, that's only, you know, fasting one day a week is actually probably less effective than daily intermittent fasting and improving those same things. And it might just be like the daily dose of extending your fast by say four hours or something like that seems to be a little bit more powerful than a one day a week, 24 hour water only fast for your listeners who are willing to go to a greater extreme than daily intermittent fasting. For instance, there's something called the fasting mimicking diet, where you pick three to five days in a row to eat a very low calorie diet. And the way you can think about it is it's equivalent to eating about one meal a day. And the meal is supposed to be plant based in low in protein. And that type of approach is supposed to give you a lot of the benefits of extended fasting. So for instance, increasing stem cell production around day four and day five, it's also supposed to increase the topology, which is a form of sort of cellular recycling of worn out proteins, and do a bunch of other things. And there was a cool study just out last year showing that that type of approach doing that. So doing this for five days in a row and repeating it once a month for three months reduces someone's biological age, or how young or old their body acts by about two and a half years. So we're starting to see an effect there. They're, they're just not very unfortunately, they're not, there's not a lot of research comparing one type of intermittent fasting to another type of intermittent fasting. So it's hard to say one is better or worse per se. But broad sweeping, there are even more extreme forms of intermittent fasting. Like if you have what we call severe obesity, there's a form of intermittent fasting known as alternate day fasting, where every other day, you have a complete water only fast. So pretty extreme, and you can lose a massive amount of weight from doing it. But most people just can't follow it. And so a lot of the more extreme forms of intermittent fasting, like every other day, you either have a 24 hour water only fast or you one meal a day, studies have just found that people can't sustain that in the long term. And even with the fasting mimicking diet, you know, some patients struggle to maintain that as well. So we're finding the research is showing us that the daily intermittent fasting is most is easiest for most people. And most people are able to stick with it about five to six days a week on average over the long haul.

Barry Conrad
Right speaking of adf there's also the prescription that you can have you know up to five hundred calories on those down days is that still something that you find was it more effective if it's just water on those down days.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
It's probably more effective to have just water on those down days, but the problem is it's just really hard for people to stick with those approaches in the long term.

So I generally would recommend alternate day modified fasting or eating that 500 calories on that down day.

Barry Conrad
Right. And, and so Courtney, for new listeners or for those you've tuned in who don't know, can you dive into what primary versus secondary aging means and where intermittent fasting helps most?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, absolutely. So when we think of the aging process, we actually think of it in two ways. The first is called primary aging. And that's classically what most people think about when they think about aging. So it's this concept that over time, your body gets sort of worn out. So these are kind of the classic hallmarks of aging. So it's things like your body becomes a little bit more frail, there's more molecular damage in the body, you know, your blood sugar might be a little bit elevated over time. But this is just sort of the normal, you know, process of your body becoming worn out over time.

And so we call that primary aging. Secondary aging is the idea that as you age, you become more at risk of certain diseases, we call them comorbidities, but you can just think of them as diseases. So aging itself is one of the biggest risk factors for multiple diseases. So that includes things like dementia, cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes, hypertension, even something called COPD, which is a lung disease. But there are a bunch of diseases and even other conditions like even hip fractures that we know you're at a much greater risk as you age. And so we often in the field of aging research, we often look at both like, can we help slow down that sort of biological aging or that natural process of wear and tear? And can we also help people live healthier by helping them avoid some of these chronic diseases?

Barry Conrad
Right. We often hear, you know, intermittent fasting can have such powerful effects on aging. And I really do believe that. And I find that in my own life as well. Like I'll have people say, you know, like you look younger now than you did 10 years ago. And you know, that's, that's a flex, but it's true.

And I really can only put that down to fasting. What are the actual biological mechanisms behind that though? So from, for people who don't know from autophagy to hormone regulation to inflammation, can you sort of walk us through how IF could help support healthier aging, like on a cellular level?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
The biggest thing that we've looked at in terms of research is its effects on helping people lose weight. And we have a really good consensus in the field that basically any form of intermittent fasting helps people lose weight. Some of them, the more extreme versions, help people lose weight faster. So for instance, for alternate day fasting, where every other day you have a complete 24 hour water only fast, people can lose 5% of their body weight in just four weeks. So for someone who weighs 200 pounds, you're suddenly down 10 pounds in just four weeks. And so pretty rapid.

And now on the other end of the spectrum is daily intermittent fasting, the one that's most popular. And we call that time restricted eating, or TRE. And it basically involves eating in a 10 hour window or less and fasting for the remaining 14 or more hours of the day. The most popular form of time restricted eating is known as the 16A diet, where you fast for 16 hours a day and eat in an eight hour window. There are now over 125 studies on this, and about 75% to 80% of them all conclude that people lose weight. So if you kind of average the results across all those studies, the effect is sort of moderate weight loss. And to put that in kind of simpler terms, we are finding that it allows people to cut their calories by about 250 calories a day. So that's equivalent to losing about half a pound a week in the average person. We found that in our lab, and we're the first to kind of report that. And then that's been other research labs have found similarly, it helps you lose about a half a pound a week. In the early days, so this is several years ago, we didn't know how intermittent fasting helped people lose weight. We weren't sure if it was because it helped them burn more calories or if it's because it lowers appetite. And what we now know is it absolutely does not help you burn more calories, no magic calorie burning strategy, but it does help people naturally eat less. And we've found in my lab in particular that affects the hormone called ghrelin. So ghrelin is a cute hunger hormone. And it is one of the main signals that your body uses to determine when to eat and how much to eat. And we found that this time restricted eating or daily intermittent fasting lowers ghrelin levels in the morning. And then the really interesting thing is it also seems to increase satiety in the evening, or at least the middle of the evening. So around 8 p.m., we find that people actually are much more satisfied and crave less food. And we also found that it reduces leptin levels, which is a molecule secreted by your body's sort of body fat and helps tell those cells whether they want to, whether you should eat more or less. So we found favorable effects or good effects on leptin too. So it seems like a bunch of these hormones that are all involved in sort of regulating your appetite are positively affected. And then the really super interesting thing is we also ask people like, just tell us how hungry you are, you know, throughout the day, which sometimes is a better measure of whether something's gonna be effective or not.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
And the fascinating thing is we found with intermittent fasting, hunger levels were more even keeled throughout the day, which is the exact opposite of what I would have expected because I would have expected with intermittent fasting, you might yo-yo between being super hungry and super full. And we found the opposite. People didn't report being, you know, super hungry or super full. They were just kind of more even keeled.

And part of that could be because we've, my lab has found and other labs have found, we were the first to find it, that actually when you do intermittent fasting, it actually lowers your blood sugar levels throughout the day. So you don't get as much of a spike in your blood sugar levels. And we know that spikes in blood sugar levels can trigger hunger hormone. So if you have a big spike and then it comes crashing down, that can kind of trigger your liver to produce a hormone called glucagon, which can suddenly, you know, trigger you to become really hungry again. And so it might be by keeping blood sugar levels more even keeled, that's also causing hunger to be sort of more even keeled throughout the day. And so now we are very confident that intermittent fasting helps you lose weight. It's not a huge effect. So if you want to compare it to a weight loss medication like Osempic, Osempic causes you to lose far more weight, but the good news is it has far fewer side effects than Osempic. So Osempic, there's substantial excess loss of muscle mass. There are also, apparently Osempic was responsible for a large number of emergency room visits last year. It was about 25,000, which was just new research released in the last week, which is a huge number, which is not to say no one should take Osempic, but just to be aware, there are lots of people who don't want to take it and want to go the natural route. And so I think intermittent fasting is a great alternative for that.

On other fronts, on other sort of other ways that we know intermittent fasting works, we think it's not just one thing that it's doing in the body, we think it's doing a bunch of things. So one side, it's definitely improving appetite. The second side is we think it's improving blood sugar control. And we don't fully understand how yet, but what we do understand is that intermittent fasting seems to lower blood sugar levels. And it doesn't seem to be due to just one thing. So it seems like if you have a longer fasting period, that lowers blood sugar. Research from my lab has also showed that if you tend to eat a bunch of smaller meals or a bunch of meals in succession, you can get even a further blood sugar lowering effect. And what I mean by that is if you say you're eating your meals three or four hours apart while you're doing time restricted eating, so say you're eating at an eight hour period and you're still trying to be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna have three meals a day.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Now you're eating your meals about four hours apart. And what happens, we've found, is that when people are eating their meals three to four hours apart, when they start eating their next meal, their insulin levels or their blood sugar hormone insulin has not yet returned to sort of its normal fasting levels. And so it's still elevated. So if you then eat more food, well, your blood sugar hormone insulin is elevated. Insulin's like, hey guys, I'm here. I can just start moving the sugar out of your bloodstream and into your cells. And so as a result, it sort of prevents that extra spike in your blood sugar levels. And so maybe some benefit too from, you know, still eating, you know, like say three meals a day and not necessarily skipping a meal.

But it also looks like there's some benefits from the time of day that you eat. So most of the research that has reported a benefit for intermittent fasting, it has reported that intermittent fasting improves blood sugar, tends to have people eat earlier in the day. It's not universally true, but it seems that you can get an even bigger effect on improving your blood sugar if you eat earlier. And by earlier, I mean like have dinner by around like six, 6.30 at night. So it looks like there are a bunch of different, you know, I guess separate parts of intermittent fasting that could lower blood sugar. And then of course we know losing weight always lowers blood sugar. And then we also know intermittent fasting does improve blood pressure levels. And we've actually known this for over 50 years that when people fast and even like quite prolonged fasting can dramatically lower blood pressure level. And it seems to work by helping the body release a lot of excess water and salt that it's retaining. So it's again, it's sort of a little bit of a de-puffing, deep loading effect. And we understand some of the reasons why it happens and it's a bunch of different things. So there are hormones involved in blood sugar, sorry, blood pressure regulations such as aldosterone. And as you fast, that hormone goes up and I think it goes down initially. Yeah, it goes down initially and then goes up, but it helps support your body initially just get rid of a lot of water. And then over time, as you're fasting longer, it's like, oh, whoops, I do need to hold on to more water and salt. But the point being that there are a bunch of different things. And then also we know that when you lose weight, which intermittent fasting can do, it lowers those leptin levels from your fat cells and leptin itself can also lower blood pressure. So there are a bunch of different things there. Now, the interesting thing is we don't actually see big effects on cholesterol levels from intermittent fasting. It just doesn't seem to be either a big effect or intermittent fasting doesn't seem to affect it very much.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
That said, if you lose a lot of weight, then intermittent fasting will probably still lower your cholesterol levels. But if you lose a moderate amount of weight, we don't find that intermittent fasting is particularly great at lowering cholesterol levels per se, but it seems to be outstanding for improving blood sugar and blood pressure.

Barry Conrad
So many thoughts, Scotty. This is fascinating. You know, back in the day, I actually used to follow. Have you heard of that book, Body for Life?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
I have. I've never read it, but I'm aware of it. Yes, yes.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and the whole situation was six meals a day. Six more meals a day because it speeds up your metabolism and you have to keep that fire burning. But what I found with that, like going back from here, is how many just lulls I had in the day. How many, spiking up and down, up and down.

What I love about fasting is that it just removes all that. And yeah, it definitely stabilizes you throughout the day. There's less decision fatigue around meals and what to eat. And I definitely find the benefits of that. And what you also said that stuck out to me was 10 hours. 10 hours, as little as 10 hours fasting. You're gonna see benefits there. You mentioned.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
10-hour eating window.

Barry Conrad
eating window. You also mentioned the, the when I was going to ask. So is it, is it more about the fasting length, Courtney, or is it when the fast happens early versus late? Because I eat, I'm kind of all over the place. I just sort of time it around my lifestyle.

It's not necessarily just the morning, just the evening, but it's usually around 4 PM ish, but that can often be later. So what are your thoughts on that? Is it about keeping it more uniform to see more benefits or is intermittent fasting just protective regardless of the time of day?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, all great questions. The answer is I think it's all of the above.

And let me also go back to your question. Let me also clever I'm not saying I think people should eat six meals a day. I certainly don't.

Barry Conrad
No, I don't know. No, no, I was more saying like what I noticed when I did eat that way compared to now, like it's a huge difference.

Like you don't have to eat all day to keep your metabolism spiked.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Correct. And we now know that's not true, that you don't have to like eat lots of meals throughout the day. And by and large, for the most part, it really doesn't I mean, certainly for weight loss, it doesn't look like the number of meals you eat per day makes a big difference. So you know, current current thinking is, you know, do what works for you.

Okay, so back to your great question. So I think the answer is, all three matter. And what I mean is the fasting duration matters. So longer fast, the better, in general, you know, up to a point up to the point of maybe 36 hours. Number two, time of day probably matters, but only for certain parts of your health. And I'll cover and I'll mention, I'll go into detail on what that means. And then third, the regularity seems to matter too. But we don't have a great understanding of it yet. But I'll tackle each of these. So the great news is for weight loss, it does not look like it matters very much what time of day you do intermittent fasting. So that's fantastic news. So there may be a small benefit from eating early in the day. But by and large, it looks like no matter what time of day, you practice time restricted eating or intermittent fasting, you're going to get a weight loss benefit, which is awesome.

The one caveat I will say is we're starting to see the amount of weight loss for a 10 hour eating window is not as good as for an eight hour window. If you're able to do eight hours, I would recommend that our data, the research at least is so much more compelling for eight hours, we see clearly better benefits for eight hours as opposed to 10 hours. So if you can do that, great. If not do 10 and just rock 10. I usually recommend that people start at 10 and then work their way down if they can. On the question of blood sugar, it looks like the time of day that you practice time restricted eating matters. And when we look at all the research that's been done, it looks like eating windows that end by 6pm tend to improve blood sugar levels. And then eating windows that end after 6pm don't. This is largely true, but there's always like there's always a caveat, right? So if you lose a lot of weight, no matter what time of day you do intermittent fasting, you're going to get a blood sugar benefit because weight loss, you know, is always going to help you help improve your blood sugar. But if you don't lose a lot of weight, and you're just doing this to roughly maintain your weight, you're going to get a much bigger blood sugar benefit from eating early in the day.

That said, that's not practical for everyone. But if you can do it, that's great. And the reason why we think this is the case is your body has an internal biological clock known as the circadian system. And the circadian system helps your body be better at doing different things at different times of the day. So for instance, your best sports performance and your greatest muscular strength and your fastest reaction times are in the middle of the afternoon. So like this is where you're going to get your sort of best if you are, you know, an Olympic athlete, that's when you're going to get your best performance.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Conversely, at nighttime, your body starts to produce the sleep hormone melatonin. So that's the best time at night to sleep.

And in the morning, that's when you have your greatest testosterone production and also when most people have their best blood sugar control. And we also know that when you eat in the morning, you burn very slightly more calories when you eat in the morning than when you eat in the evening. Now, it's not a huge effect. It's, you know, about equivalent to eating a few extra bites of apple. But the point being, we have a bunch of evidence suggesting that your metabolism is kind of like optimally suited to eat food earlier in the day. And by early in the day, I would say, you know, the best time of day is probably about mid morning, mid to late morning. So about like the 10 11am windows, that's when we find the body is most sensitive to the blood sugar hormone insulin. So that's when your muscle cells and your fat cells are both are most like, Oh, yeah, if you give me sugar, I can take it up quickly and keep your blood sugar in a good range. What's really interesting is we discovered in the late 1960s, early 1970s, that if you give someone a blood sugar test, or a meal, say at in you know, in the morning at 9am in the afternoon at 3pm and in the evening at 8pm. their blood sugar levels will spike significantly higher in the afternoon, in the evening, even though they're eating the same meal. In fact, the effect is so large, people, for instance, who have prediabetes as measured by a blood sugar test in the morning, they're metabolically equivalent to being diabetic when they eat dinner at night. It's like your body's almost in a different state of metabolism across the day. If you can eat more of your food early in the day, and by early in the day, we can take this in a couple of different directions. One is you can just do intermittent fasting and say like, hey, I'm going to make breakfast and lunch my largest meals of the day. Or you can even say, hey, I'm going to follow the old adage of eating breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper. Some people might say, hey, look, I can't move dinner earlier, or I'm not willing to eat breakfast later, I got kids, or I've got my job or something like that. For those folks, I would say, don't worry about it. Just try to make breakfast and or lunch your largest meals of the day. Make dinner like your salad meal or your super healthy meal. For folks who can do intermittent fasting, I would say, if you can eat early in the day, great, do it. If you can't skip breakfast, still do the intermittent fasting, and just try to avoid eating right before bedtime. And you're still going to get a lot of those benefits.

And blood pressure is also similar in that in a bunch of studies, we're seeing that intermittent fasting or eating early in the day seems to be better at lowering blood pressure than eating late in the day.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
So there are at least some aspects of health that seem to be influenced more by the time of day that we eat rather than the fasting duration, or just that you can get a bigger benefit from eating earlier in the day than you can by having a longer fast. But we're still trying to figure out all of this and make sense of it.

So my lab has a study right now, a really big study where we're comparing doing intermittent fasting early versus late in the day. And we're not allowing people to lose weight. And we want to kind of know the question, are there sort of intrinsic benefits? But there are studies, really interesting studies showing that if you skip breakfast, even if you do intermittent fasting, this seems to potentially not really improve your blood sugar levels, even though you you would hope it would are in some of these studies, it's actually meaning making blood sugar worse. Now my sort of counter argument is most of these studies are only like a day long or six days long. And so we are in our current study, we're testing this for a much longer period of time, because we suspect the body adapts over time and gets better, you know, at certain things at different times of the day. So for instance, when people do Ramadan intermittent fasting by only eating at night, we find after about a month, their hunger hormones change what time of day they're secreted. So the body adapts over time. So I'm hoping about a year from now, if you call me up, we'll have an even clearer answer of the effects on blood sugar. But this is the best, what we know based on the best research that we have.

Barry Conrad
amazing information. We actually talked about Ramadan fasting a couple of weeks ago. It's really fascinating because it is different how they don't, they only have nothing, they don't even have water.

So the results in terms of muscle losses, that's actually different. So can you talk about the difference between Ramadan, EG having nothing compared to having black coffee throughout the day compared to having 500 calories on a down day of ADF? How is muscle affected compared to regular intermittent fasting and Ramadan fasting?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, Ramadan fasting is such a hard topic. I often shy away from it because it's hard.

But just for your listeners, Ramadan intermittent fasting is typically fasting during daylight hours. And it's what you might call complete fasting or another term would be dry fasting, which means you eat no food and no water while the sun is out. And then you'll start eating, you know, after dusk. But you can also eat before dawn. And what's super interesting is the way people practice Ramadan fasting, intermittent fasting is so different. And what I mean by that is some people eat before the sun rises. And again, after immediately after the sun sets, and they still eating pretty healthily. Other people might eat nothing in the morning, stay up late at night and then eat around 12. So if you look at all the research that's been done on Ramadan intermittent fasting, some studies find people get unhealthier during the month of Ramadan. And other studies report that people get healthier or it has no effect on health, it really just depends on what people do.

And often during that month, people often change what they eat. So it becomes really hard to kind of see the forest through the trees, so to speak. So it's hard for me to have a good answer on that. I do I am aware of some studies that show that Ramadan intermittent fasting negatively influences muscle mass. I'm also aware of some studies suggesting that Ramadan intermittent fasting do done during a certain trimester, a pregnancy is linked to lower IQ scores. And I apologize, I just can't remember which trimester it is. I think there are some cautions. But again, it I think it's it's all in the devil's and the details. I think it's how you do it. I think if you do it, well, you're in a good position. But if you use it as an excuse, or if it, you know, I don't even mean to cast it that negative. But if if you do it and inadvertently end up, you know, effectively binging and eating unhealthily, because you've been fasting all day, including dry fasting, then it's probably not great.

And then the other issue is the sleep disruption. So it can disrupt sleep. And it's definitely not eating in alignment with the circadian rhythm. So for non religious reasons, I would not recommend it, you know, and then obviously, for religious reasons, I think, you know, it's important to to just say, you know, do whatever works for you there.

Barry Conrad
I'm from South Africa, Courtney, and my mom, one of her best friends was Muslim. She was married to a Muslim man, and we always would go over to their place during Ramadan because when the sun went down, we had this massive feast and we'd just eat with them.

But it was definitely, you know, it's not a sort of a quote unquote diet that you prescribe on the daily. It's sort of like, as you said, some people could maybe get unhealthy.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Correct. And people often do it for spiritual purposes. And for that, I understand it can be absolutely transformative. I'm just talking more about the health aspects.

Barry Conrad
Speaking of the devil being in the details, Courtney, can you break down for our listeners in simple terms how intermittent fasting actually influences biological age? Or the key markers of health span? And if so, how strong is the evidence? What is your latest take on that for our listeners?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Great. So let's switch to primary aging, which is super fun. So one of the really interesting things we've learned from animal studies is we now kind of understand why intermittent fasting extends lifespan. So in science, we can sometimes do what are called knockout studies, which means we can block a certain gene from doing its job. And so people have experimented with, if I block this gene, can intermittent fasting still extend lifespan? And what we found is that it looks like intermittent fasting extends lifespan by increasing autophagy. So autophagy, it's sort of a, well, I guess the root origin of the word is self-eating. But it's this concept that cells are constantly sort of rejuvenating themselves. And one of the way they do this is they take out worn out and damaged proteins. And they sort of break them down and then recycle those components. And so when autophagy is higher, what that means is more of those damaged proteins are being recycled, and then new proteins are taking their place. And what we found is that intermittent fasting dramatically increases autophagy. But if you kind of knock out that gene or you prevent those autophagy genes from doing their job, intermittent fasting can't extend lifespan. So this tells us very clearly that it's autophagy that allows intermittent fasting to increase lifespan.

And my lab a few years ago, we were looking at certain aging-related pathways. And we definitely found that intermittent fasting, this time-restricted eating in particular, did increase one of the key autophagy genes. And so we see clear evidence that it's increasing autophagy the same way in people. And we also, in our study, we were measuring how many calories people were burning in the middle of the night. We did find that there seemed to be a little bit more protein turnover, which may sound like a bad thing, but it's not a bad thing. Because if you're sort of recycling more proteins, that's a good thing. Other things that we see, so when we think of aging, let me take one step backwards. We now have this sort of framework for viewing aging, and we have what we call, I think we're up to 12 or 13 different hallmarks of aging. And you can just think of these as components of aging. So sort of key drivers of aging are things like, we think your body produces less stem cells as you age, it creates more, there's more damage in your mitochondria as you age. So mitochondria, the little factories within cells that generate energy, we find that the bacteria in your gut sort of decline with age, or there are some problems with them with age. Your body's immune system is not as good as fighting disease with age. There's more molecular damage, such as oxidative stress with age, but there are a bunch of these things that happen with age. We have also found in my lab, one very cool thing, which is intermittent fasting helps reduce.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
a type of molecular damage called oxidative stress, which is effectively from electrons bumping around and just creating damage in the body. And we were able to show that intermittent fasting reduces this oxidative stress, even if you don't lose weight, which means if you are just into healthy aging, you don't even want to lose weight, you can get some of these anti-aging effects.

And I now know of at least two studies that have found that intermittent fasting for, gosh, let's see, one study they tested the effects after eight weeks and the other was about 12 weeks or three months. And both studies found that just doing intermittent fasting for that shorter time period reversed biological age by about two and a half years. So that's super cool. And now we're getting better and better technologies for estimating someone's true biologic age. So definitely watch this space. Other things that I think are really exciting coming down the pipeline, I'm involved in a study right now where we're looking at whether intermittent fasting can increase stem cell production by the body, which would be amazing. And one of our thoughts is maybe it can because we know calorie restriction can increase stem cells in the body. And so we'll be looking at that.

There is some evidence that intermittent fasting can improve the immune system, but it's not through sort of classic immune molecules that are released. It seems to empower certain types of immune cells more to target disease. So for instance, it helps with some of the T cells that are really good at killing cancer cells. It helps increase T cells that are better at killing cancer cells.

And then it also lowers a hormone called insulin-like growth factor one. And this particular hormone can stimulate the growth of cancers. So in general, we want lower levels. And the great thing we know about intermittent fasting is it does lower insulin or this IGF-1 level in the body. So we think there are just like a bunch of ways or different aspects of aging that intermittent fasting is really targeting.

Barry Conrad
It's amazing. You know, Courtney, you touched on autophagy, and it's one of the most it's one of the most talked about benefits of fasting, but it can seem ambiguous or mysterious to people.

So from what we know, when does autophagy actually start to ramp up in a fast and how long do you need to go without food to really see a kick in?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, so typically about 11 to 13 hours of fasting in humans is around the time we'll start to see more dramatic increases in autophagy. And it's really important to for people to know that autophagy is really increased while you sleep. And that's really the best time of day. So I'm going to also get on my general health horse here and recommend that people get good overnight sleep. And honestly, that would be my top recommendation followed by intermittent fasting second.

But my number one recommendation for autophagy would be good sleep while it's dark outside. One other study I do want to mention is last year there was a great study looking also at brain aging. And they similarly found that about eight weeks of intermittent fasting reduced brain aging by the equivalent of a little over two years. And they also found that an improved executive function and learning and memory. And then we also have data from our lab showing that intermittent fasting increases something called brain derived neurotropic factor, which is just a fancy name for a little hormone that helps stimulate neurons in the brain to sort of regenerate and to survive.

Barry Conrad
Amazing. Courtney, question for you. Is a calorie a calorie a calorie? So how important are food choices?

Because a lot of people when they do come to me asking, heard about this intermittent fasting thing, you can eat whatever you want, right? Is that quote unquote true? How important are dietary choices?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, so I'm going to answer that in a couple of different ways. So one, you can still get the benefits of intermittent fasting, even if you don't improve your diet. I do still think, based on the best research, it's probably more important to eat a healthy diet than to do intermittent fasting or engage in meal timing, but I think they're both really important for health. And that's what we're learning.

Like both, you can dramatically improve your health by eating the right things and eating at the right time of day. So you can definitely get the benefits of intermittent fasting without eating a healthy diet. I still recommend eating a healthy diet. And my biggest recommendation there is just to eat whole foods. Kevin Hall, who was at BNIH until recently, big research on ultra processed foods kind of showed the worst thing that you can do is to eat ultra processed food. When people eat ultra processed foods, they often overeat by 500 calories at a time. So if your listeners can do one thing, I would say stick to whole foods as much as possible. Ignore about like, you know, all carbs are bad and stuff like that. I do recommend avoiding high glycemic index for carbs, but I think whole fruit is great. Whole grains, as long as it's not overly processed, is also great. But there are some whole grains that are a little too processed that I think get sort of lumped in with, you know, healthier whole grains.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, Courtney, what protocol do you follow? Can I ask, what do you, 18.6, 16.8, OMAD?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, absolutely. So prior to having kids, I typically ate within a six to eight hour window. I like four meals a day, but I'm also fine doing three. I usually do four, just because I really like that.

And right now, so I just weaned my second kid from breastfeeding a few months ago, I'm eating in within more like I would say an eight to 10 hour window, depending on the day, but I plan to eventually move back to eight hours or less. And when I go out to eat, I just do what everyone else is doing. I just don't sweat it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, me too. I'm the same way. It's not the end of the world. It's what you do most of the time. That's sort of my train of thought.

We get this question a lot on the podcast. How long should you eat? What does OMAD mean? This is maybe controversial to ask, but Courtney, what is one meal a day? Is it one plate? Is it in four hours? What does OMAD actually mean, in your opinion?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
I've seen, among scientists, I've seen sort of two definitions. One is one meal a day, and the other one is eating within a four-hour period or less. I don't think we have a good consensus on it, but I think either of those are reasonable ways to look at it.

Generally when I've seen OMAD in the literature, the shortest eating period I've seen people quote is an hour and a half, I think, an hour to an hour and a half, and the longest I've seen is a four-hour period, if that's helpful. So I generally think of less than four hours if it's a single eating instance as OMAD.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And speaking of just different opinions and views out there with so many voices on social media now and science constantly evolving, there seems there's a new health claim every day. So some are more evidence-based than others.

What are some of the biggest myths or misconceptions about intermittent fasting that you'd like to set the record straight about?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Ah, that's a good question. I see, it's very interesting because I see extremes on either end of the spectrum. And what I mean by that is I see both people in the general public and other scientists say intermittent fasting is the greatest thing ever and improves everything about your health and you're going to magically transform. That's not true.

The effects are moderate, but I think they build so nicely over time. And we can still get quite dramatic improvements in blood sugar and blood pressure levels in people as long as they stick with it over time. Weight loss effect is moderate. Like I said, I mean, you're going to get bigger effects with ozmpic, but I mean, what a great tool to maintain your weight or even lose a moderate amount of weight. And then to slow the aging process. I suspect if you accumulate this over decades, you're going to be in a great position. But I also see people on the other end of the spectrum, including many dietitians completely poo-pooing it or other scientists saying there's nothing to look at here. It's just a fancy way to cut calories and research in my lab and other labs have shown like even if you don't cut calories, you can still get some benefits.

And some of the benefits and improving oxidative stress were also independent of what time of day you eat. So we, I think, you know, for those of us who actually really know the science out there, I think they're clear benefits. I think they're moderate benefits. I'm still really excited about it.

I think we're going to help a lot of people. Estimates are now roughly 10% of the population or of US adults are following intermittent fasting, which is roughly the same number who are ozmpic. So I think the science is there. And I'm hopeful that in the next, hopefully the next five to seven years, we'll have dietary guidelines saying that intermittent fasting is effective. And if you can do any sort of strategic meal timing, you should do it.

Barry Conrad
Amazing. And Courtney, for people who might be new to IF, what's one practical takeaway that an audience can implement starting today? They're new, brand new to it. What's one thing?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Oh, great question. The first, I mean, my usual advice for newcomers is the following. Start with a 10-hour window, adjust to that, and then see if you can push it lower and experiment and find a sweet spot. If it just doesn't work for you, two things are really important to know. So one, we have found that generally it takes people a while to adapt to it. So some people say, oh, I'm never hungry at this time of day or I can't do this. We find that it actually, when people first switch to an intermittent fasting diet, it temporarily feels hard. And then after a month, many people start feeling like, okay, I'm getting the hang of this and I'm adapting. So if it feels hard in the beginning, hang in there, give it a little longer try, because your body's just adapting to eating at a different time at day. So it takes a while for those hunger hormones to transition to make you hungry on your new schedule and to sort of overcome that inertia. Yeah, and just be patient.

And it's not an all or nothing. So a lot of people will say to me like, oh, I thought I had to do it every day of the week and I was like, no, five or six days a week, you're gonna get most of the benefits. So don't sweat it. This is not black or white by any means.

Barry Conrad
Amazing advice. I think I'm going to steal that, start with the 10 hours and see how you go. What excites you most, Courtney, about future fasting research? What's next on the horizon for you?

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah. So we are currently, I say we, but I'm part of a larger team. We're hoping to do a five-year study, which would be amazing, of intermittent fasting and comparing it to calorie counting for slowing the aging process. So that's huge. This would be a giant study funded by the largest federal agency or the federal government in the U.S. So we're crossing our fingers that that gets funded, but we would be looking at whether we can slow the aging process over five years, which has never been done before. So super excited about that.

And then we have two studies in my lab right now where we're trying to see if we can improve people's blood sugar control, people who have type 2 diabetes, and see if we can potentially even reduce their need for medication, which is exciting. And then we have one other study that we're still working on where we're taking cancer patients and seeing if intermittent fasting can help shrink their tumors and also reduce the sort of nasty side effects of chemotherapy and radiation. Because there's a bunch of studies in animals showing that if you combine intermittent fasting with chemotherapy and radiation, those animals survive so much better. And what's interesting is there's a sweet spot. If you start the intermittent fasting prior to chemotherapy and radiation, you get these huge improvements in shrinking their tumors. But if you do the intermittent fasting after they do the chemotherapy and radiation, you don't get the same huge benefit. And it seems that the intermittent fasting kind of helps chemotherapy and radiation better kill the tumors while protecting healthy cells. So we're kind of testing that now in people to see if it can help.

Barry Conrad
that's absolutely amazing and to wrap things up corny if you had to choose a final meal what would it be.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Oh, a final meal on Earth?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Oh, gosh. Okay. So I would probably do a combination of healthy and unhealthy foods. Something with chocolate and then something with fruits. Like I love watermelon in berries, raspberries and strawberries.

Oh, and I love stone fruit. So probably cherries and white nectarines are amazing. And then I would probably do something like some dark chocolate or like dark chocolate covered like mint ice cream or something like that. It would be both those things.

Barry Conrad
Sounds tasty. Well, Courtney, where can people find you before we go? Find you online.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Yeah, so I currently do not have a big social media presence, but I have a web page at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. So if they just search my name, Courtney Peterson, and UAB, then they can find me there.

Barry Conrad
Amazing. Courtney Peterson, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. Thank you so much for making the time.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Barry Conrad
And thank you all for tuning in, we'll catch you next week. Bye.

Dr. Courtney Peterson
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Jul 14

Episode 430 – Find Your IF Type, Red Meat Causing Cancer, Headlines Problems, Fasting For Insulin Resistance And HGH, Absolute Vs. Relative Risk, Stevia, Monk Fruit, Allulose, And Erythritol, Is OMAD Too Stressful, And More!

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Welcome to Episode 430 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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STUDIES:

Insulin resistance reduction, intermittent fasting, and human growth hormone: secondary analysis of a randomized trial⁠

⁠The Battle of Natural Sweeteners: A Comprehensive Guide to Monk Fruit and Stevia⁠

⁠Comparative Effects of Allulose and SugarAlternatives on Glycemic and Cardiometabolic Parameters: A Systematic Review⁠

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to episode 430 of the intermittent fasting podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of Avalon X and author of What, When, Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine, and I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer, songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out melanieavalon.com and barryconradofficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you.

Please remember the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for the intermittent fasting podcast. Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 430 of the intermittent fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Mel. I'm doing awesome. Hey, everybody listening. I'm having an awesome day today.

I'm here in New York. It's sunny. It's a little bit muggy, but other than that, can't complain. Just adjusting to life here and loving it so far. How about you, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
I'm good. So quick question. So for you normally, July is like the beginning of winter, right, in Australia?

Barry Conrad
We're doing the seasons thing again, remember?

Melanie Avalon
I know, I can't, I'm never gonna let this go. We're gonna be 80 and I'm gonna be like, so in Australia.

Barry Conrad
No, you're right. It's kind of the beginning of winter. It gets really, really cold, especially in Melbourne.

Melanie Avalon
I don't know why this is so mind blowing to me, but it's mind blowing to me that because like July here is is like summer, like that's what you associate. So the concept of associating July with cold or the concept of associating December Christmas with warm, my brain can't understand it.

Barry Conrad
Well, I know that A, you know, can let the seasons think go and B and B, I was actually talking to a friend on the weekend and I was buzzing out about Christmas this year, finally making the carols, finally making sense because it'd be a white Christmas.

Melanie Avalon
I know that's so exciting, which is also very telling that the Christmas carols are all cold.

Barry Conrad
You know, no one's saying, you know, let's have some shrimp on the baby. No one saying that, you know, in the summer. No.

Melanie Avalon
Which we just discussed shrimp on the barbie because I got this, I read this article saying that that was not authentic Australian speak and Barry was like, no, we say that. So where are they getting their information? Don't trust the news. Don't trust anything. It's my takeaway.

Barry Conrad
Did someone say that to you or did you just see the article? Just the article.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, the titles like no Australians don't say shrimp on the Barbie

Barry Conrad
Of course we do. That's such an Aussie thing to say. Shrimp on the barbie and to eat shrimp on the barbie. Is that a thing in?

Melanie Avalon
I don't even know what shrimp on the barbie is. Is it shrimp? Is it barbecue shrimp?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so picture like, I know that you love shrimp cocktails, so take the shrimp out of the cocktail and just throw it on like a barbecue. It's very summery.

You're wearing shorts and like thongs. You call it like, what do you call it here? Thongs? Shoes. Shoes, right? Flip flops? Yeah, not like a G-shing thong, not that. It's like flip flops, yeah. Yeah, flip flops. I can't picture you doing that though. I don't know. It's not really a mal motif.

Melanie Avalon
You can't see me like barbecuing.

Barry Conrad
Well, like you in like shorts and flip-flops and barbecuing in the sun, no.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I agree. I'm not mad about it. I used to be back in the day. I used to love like summer. Summer was my favorite. I would tan outside. I would, yeah. What changed? Me. Life.

I learned the better things in life. I learned where to put my energy. Can I make an announcement for listeners that's very exciting? Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, friends. So I've been talking about Beauty Counter on this show for eons. And I know a lot of you guys love the products. I love the products. And then they kind of went AWOL. And you guys have eagerly been waiting for them to come back. And they are officially back as of two weeks ago, assuming that the launch because we're recording this in the past or yes, assuming everything goes well, they should actually be back in life. And the reason I'm so obsessed with them is I'm obsessed with Epic Clean Beauty and skincare. There's a few different brands I love, including I'm going to love Barry's new brand when it comes out. Isn't it Conrad Skin?

Barry Conrad
cut in its skin.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, but in any case, effective and clean beauty and safe skincare is so important to me because here's something Barry, now that you're in the US, you're going to have to deal more with the shocking amount of things that we can put in products here in the US that they don't overseas. So there's very little regulation here in the US about what can go in skincare products, there's a lot of inter-condisrupters, things that affect your health. So, you know, you may be fasting clean and doing all the things, but you literally could be putting things on your body that are messing with your hormones and actually impeding your weight loss or affecting your fertility or adding to your toxic burden. So safe skincare is so, so important.

I am so passionate about it and beauty counters back. They're no longer called beauty counter. They are now called counter and I don't actually know all the details right now. So I will make a redirect link to make sure that everybody gets covered. So if you go to Melanie Avalon dot com slash counter, that will redirect to the counter link. I think there's going to be some sort of incentive from them. I though will be doing an incentive. So if you purchase through that link, I will send like new customers and it doesn't matter if you were with beauty counter before. So anybody new to counter, I will be sending some sort of something something to people or doing some sort of incentive. Check that out. Get on my clean beauty email list, which is at Melanie Avalon dot com slash clean beauty for more information.

But I'm very excited, especially because I've been really missing the products. It's been exciting to have one. I mean, there's so many reasons. It's exciting to have Barry Conrad as the co host of this show. But one thing is I think it's so cool that you appreciate skincare because I feel not to make generalizations, but I feel like men don't always they don't get into it as much as women, even though you guys have skin aging and don't you want to look good and glow like I don't actually I don't understand why men aren't more, you know, into this.

Barry Conrad
I think a lot. Well, first of all, it's super exciting that counter is going to be coming back. And second of all, a lot of men do want to look good. It's just not that they'll admit it.

Like so pretty much most of my male mates use skincare, but they just don't talk about it.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? They're like doing it on the on the download?

Barry Conrad
Yes.

Melanie Avalon
Sneaky, sneaky.

Barry Conrad
or they'll borrow their partners or their moms or their sisters skincare if they don't buy it themselves, they're definitely using it. And we talk about it as well, like, hey, I'm using this stuff.

It's really funny actually because people would never think that, but it's very, very, very common.

Melanie Avalon
That's so interesting. It's funny.

I remember like I gave back when it was beauty counter, I would give products to male relatives of mine and yeah, some of them would, you know, go on and on to me about how much they they loved it. So good to know it's okay. Well, I'm excited. I'm excited for your for your launch as well.

Barry Conrad
I'm so excited as well. I can't wait.

Especially because it's for men and for guys and to just destigmatize exactly what we're talking about. Skin care. It's not just a girly thing or a feminine thing to want to protect your skin. You know, it's yeah, exactly.

Melanie Avalon
And actually, that pairs really well because I guess Counter is gender neutral. At the same time, they actually, when they were Beauty Counter, they launched a men's line and then they actually got rid of it.

Interesting. Yeah. I'm really excited to have a brand, your brand, that is marketed towards men because there's not any clean, safe skank hair lines that I like because there's a few that I like and none of them are actually marketed towards men. So this is very exciting.

Barry Conrad
It's very, very exciting, Count White.

Melanie Avalon
Me too. Okay. Anything else new in your life?

Barry Conrad
Well, I saw, yeah, well, actually before I mentioned that I, uh, I saw this, uh, study this before we get into our study about, have you seen the whole red meat situation? No.

Melanie Avalon
please tell them maybe, what is it?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, the the whole, you know, quote unquote, red meat causes cancer claims getting a bit of a pushback now, this month, which goes back to the the 2015 who report, you know, that labeled red meat is probably carcinogenic. And, you know, so it's that's getting pushed back now.

And I could get all the way into it. But basically, it's another example of how once a thought catches a light, it can really run crazy, which is dangerous for people who base their lifestyle, style choices around it, you know, so it's another one of those things where it's not, it shouldn't be demonized, essentially, because yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, I feel egregiously uninformed. So you're saying now, are they saying they're taking it back or?

Barry Conrad
Well, it goes back to the 2015 WHO report that their wild red meat is probably carcinogenic, but that was based mostly on observational studies, not actual clinical trials. They basically found that just 17% of red meat and 18% of processed meat was the increased risk of cancer, which sounds big until you compare it to smoking, which is like a thousand percent cancer risk. Most of those heavy meat eaters also smoked, also drank more, also ate fewer veggies. So it's not that black and white.

And even a 2019 review in Enol's internal medicine using the grade system rated the evidence as low. It's a very low certainty. So it's just, it's just really crazy. So it's red meat's not the villain, you know, it's all about context. It's not just the red meat.

Melanie Avalon
And do you know, that's probably a relative risk, not an absolute risk.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So for listeners who are not familiar, the relative versus absolute risk is shockingly misleading because basically absolute risk... How would I say it? So absolute risk is across the board that you have this... Everybody has this amount of percent of likelihood of getting the thing. So if you have a 17% absolute risk, that means you're 17% more likely to get the thing. Relative risk is... It looks at it in comparison to people who already would be getting the cancer and then the difference if you were to eat meat. So basically if it's a 17% relative risk increase, that would mean that normally... It's looking at... Normally there's a group and a certain amount of those people would get cancer. When you add the relative risk of 17%, it means 17% more of that group would get cancer. So it's actually not a total amount. So it's not 17% of people everywhere. When you actually break it down to relative risk, it's going to be tiny.

It might be a 1% increase risk. That's actually what I'm looking up right now, it says. So you say 17% on the headlines, but it really might be 1% absolute risk, which is very different. Which is wild. Yeah. Also doesn't take into account. So you mentioned so many things right now. I didn't know that about the... They were talking about the studies that were used and everything. That's amazing that they're shedding light on that. I think that healthy user bias is huge. So people who eat meat, especially processed meat, because there has been such a stigma for so long around meat, people who eat that may be engaging in other unhealthy lifestyle factors. So there's that. And then I also think there's a big difference between processed meat, red meat, and other meat. So it all gets kind of like... It gets together, it gets in people's minds, is one thing. Yeah, thank you for drawing attention to it.

Barry Conrad
No worries. But basically, it makes me want to just have three steaks tonight.

It's just like, there's no, it's so crazy because people, like I said, they base their lifestyle choices around these headlines. So many people do. And that's not great when it's misinformation, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Wait, speaking of steak, can I tell you what I ate last night?

Barry Conrad
Is it Maui Nui?

Melanie Avalon
No, I was just thinking, I need to order some more and now that you're in the US, you need to order some. I want some. So we need to get you some Maui Nui. We love it.

They are venison from Hawaii, where the access deer population is wrecking the ecosystem. So it actually helps the Hawaiian ecosystem. It's super lean and delicious. It's done sustainably. We love it. So for listeners for that, you can go to Maui Nui Venison. That's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-V-E-N-I-S-O-N dot com slash IF podcast to secure your access because they do run out. But no, so last night, I've been eyeing, no pun intended, the Eye of Round steaks at Whole Foods. Oh, which have you gotten to Whole Foods yet?

Barry Conrad
I've, I've ordered off Amazon, but I haven't gone to an actual store, but that's the set doesn't Amazon own whole foods. It's the same stuff. You got to go in the.

Melanie Avalon
store though. Good experience, the vibe.

Barry Conrad
Okay, so the eye of round.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so I've been eyeing the eye of round. Have you had eye of round?

Barry Conrad
It's not a robot, it's not, our round is different, so it's...

Melanie Avalon
So it's basically like one of the leanest cuts of steak. They had grass fat eye around, but here's the thing, they have it cut like steak. So it looks really approachable. Like it looks like a filet mignon. I didn't realize it's super tough. Like you're not supposed to eat it as a steak. I don't know why they sell it that way.

So I got it out and I got my meat pounder mallet and I like attacked it, hammered it, cut it up a lot and I turned it into a steak. It's a little bit tough, but yeah, it's kind of fun. Do you ever do that? Do you ever tenderize your meat with a hammer?

Barry Conrad
I've only done it for a bry, bry is like B-R-A-I, which is the African, the closest thing to a barbecue, but I don't normally do it at home because the neighbors would probably be like, are you okay? What's going on?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I was wondering about that because it was kind of late.

Barry Conrad
But wait, what attracted you to the eye of round?

Melanie Avalon
Because it looked, it was like so perfectly circular. It looked so lean. It was grass fed. I was like, oh, this looks perfect. And then I got it home and I was like, oh.

Barry Conrad
It's tough. Was it good? What did it taste like?

Melanie Avalon
This is not what it's supposed to be. Yeah, after I, so my recommendation to listeners is get the eye around, get your meat hammer mallet thing, just hammer it a ton, a ton, and then like crisscross your knife and fork to really like, and then like very quickly put it on a grill or something like I put it on the George Foreman.

And then while it was like very quickly cooking, I was like crisscrossing it with my knife and fork, like breaking it down. Sounds complicated, but it worked.

Barry Conrad
And what did you have it with?

Melanie Avalon
Cucumbers and chicken.

Barry Conrad
Wow, meat on meat on cucumbers, love it.

Melanie Avalon
So, okay. All the tangents. Well, thank you for that. Yay. Shall we jump into some fastening related things? Let's do it. All right. Do you have a study for us?

Barry Conrad
The study I'm bringing today is called insulin resistance reduction, intermittent fasting, and human growth hormone, secondary analysis of a randomized trial. This comes out of Intermountain Medical Center, Heart Institute in Salt Lake City. I'll just send you that link there as well, Mel, if you want to have a look at that. Thank you.

The lead author is Dr. Benjamin Horn, who also holds positions at Stanford University School of Medicine. Pretty reputable work here. This was, again, a follow-up analysis of the wonderful trial, which is a pretty good name. Wonderful in caps. The big idea they were digging into was we know intermittent fasting can help with weight loss and metabolic health, things like insulin sensitivity, glucose levels, all that. What they wanted to figure out was why IF works so well for some people and not as much for others, which was pretty intriguing.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I like this.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, their focus was one of my other favorite topics, human growth hormone, HGH. And for listeners who don't know, human growth hormone spikes naturally when we fast, and especially during those longer fasts. So I'm really excited to get into this.

So in this study, 68 adults aged between 21 and 70 were split into two groups. So one group did 24 hour water only fast, twice a week for the first month, then once a week for the next 22 weeks. The other group just ate, as usual, no restrictions. And they tracked all the expected markers, weight, insulin, glucose, HOMA IR, and HOMA IR is sort of like the marker of insulin resistance, and of course HGH. So across the board, people who did the fasting showed massive improvements in insulin resistance without losing a whole lot of weight. But the effect was really powerful in people who had lower baseline HGH. So we're talking about like people who naturally started out with less, sort of like less circulating growth hormone, which might be a hidden marker for a higher cardio metabolic risk. And those people saw a massive drop in insulin resistance, almost double compared to what? Oh, wow. Yeah, those who started with higher HGH. And it wasn't just the HOMA IR, their fasting, insulin, and glucose levels also dropped massively. So the weight loss between the groups wasn't that different now, but the changes in weight didn't predict changes in insulin resistance, which is really interesting. And it wasn't just about fat loss, it was a deeper hormonal and metabolic shift. And I guess people might be wondering, maybe why does that matter? But it matters because it suggests that HGH, or the lack of HGH might be a key factor in how our bodies respond to fasting. And it opens up this, maybe opens up this conversation about personalizing our protocols more. So maybe if you're someone with a lower HGH, and I guess you wouldn't know without blood work, you might actually be a prime, more primed for fasting, particularly for longer ones, rather than as opposed to people who aren't.

And it also reinforces, I reckon for what I'm getting from this is that fasting benefits can happen without dramatic weight loss. So it's not just, again, the scale victory. The big takeaway is, the improvements in insulin and glucose weren't tied to pounds or kgs. And that's huge because I know, we so often think like the scale has to move in order for health to improve, and here it didn't that much. And there was a hint as well that insulin resistance improved, HGH itself may have risen as well, which is really exciting. And it's kind of like that feedback loop where the better your metabolic health gets, the more growth hormone your body might actually naturally produce. So I think it's a massive win for IF, especially if you're struggling with insulin resistance, and it adds another layer, I think, on that whole thought of, you know, it has to be the scale of four for your health to improve. There's a lot happening behind the scenes that we don't even know. So what do you think, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Wow, okay, that is an awesome find. That's super.

Yeah, because when you first said that they saw improvements with even without the weight loss, I was like, that's really, really interesting because, you know, we associate metabolic issues and insulin resistance and all those things so much with weight. So it's really cool that, you know, fasting is working behind the scenes even without necessarily causing weight loss, having all these other beneficial hormonal effects.

And also really interesting about so the people with lower baseline, you know, HGH benefited more, right? Is that what you're saying basically?

Yeah. So basically, if you're starting from a worse off hormonal, a harmonally imbalanced state, you only you have even more potentially to benefit with fasting. That's cool.

Barry Conrad
This is super interesting. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Nice, nice, nice. Oh my goodness. Thank you. Well, we will put a link to that in the show notes. Awesome. Shall we jump into some listener questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's get into them.

Melanie Avalon
Alrighty, would you like to read the first one?

Barry Conrad
Yep. So Tina on Facebook asks, Melanie Evelyn and Barry Conrad, for the IF podcast, can you cover the topic of artificial sweeteners? Namely, monk fruit versus monk fruit and erythral blend. I'm generally low carb plus IF these days. So my approach has been to consume sugar through berries, limit added sugar in general and keep carb count to about 20 grams a day.

But I'd say my cravings for the occasional tiramisu is getting me curious about the best possible sugar alternative. And then in brackets, she has one bite of tiramisu never feels like enough sad face crying emoji. Has anyone else seen any reliable research on the specific topic, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon
All right, Tina, thank you for your question. Okay, so I did a deep dive into actually not just monk fruit and erythritol, but also stevia and also a little bit on alulose because I feel like those are the four non more natural ish artificial sweeteners, compared to really process forms like saccharin and aspartame and, and things like that, basically, like in Splenda, like the, like the different packets you see, like the blue, pink and the yellow packet of sweeteners. So I found one really good article. It's called the battle of natural sweeteners, a comprehensive guide to monk fruit and stevia. So walking you through these a little bit. So monk fruit, which I have tried. So I have definitely I've tried monk fruit, stevia, I've tried all these actually. So monk fruit, it's actually named after Buddhist monks who used to cultivate it hundreds of years ago. And it's an herbaceous perennial vine coming from the the gourd family. And it's actually been used in traditional Chinese medicine to treat things like cold and congestion and asthma and GI issues. It is 250 times so the active compound that makes it sweet is called magrocytes. And although it does actually contain glucose and fructose in it, the sweetness is actually not coming from that it's coming from these magrocyte compounds, which like I said, the whole thing is 250 times sweeter than sugar. So it only takes like a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit amount to taste sweet. And that's how you can get the sweet taste without the problematic effects of sugar, for example. And so there's been a lot of studies on it. There's been studies on it for the gut microbiome. It doesn't seem to have any negative effects. And it might actually have beneficial prebiotic effects, meaning it may actually support the growth of beneficial bacteria in the digestive tract. There's also been studies showing that bacteria, our gut bacteria can break it down in the colon. And then that creates antioxidant properties. And then also further promotes the growth of good bacteria in our gut. So that's cool. So other studies have found that it might have expectorant antioxidant, antimicrobial, immunologic, and anti-inflammatory potential. And it's also been suggested in studies that it could be a good treatment for obesity. Wow. Yeah, there's also even been a study that showing it has anti-cancer properties. And this is not... So this is the compound in it called Magroside that I mentioned, specifically for pancreatic cancer. And okay, so I'm going to pause because that's monk fruit.

And then Stevia, I know she asked about monk root versus erythritol, which I will explain. But Stevia is another one that people use a lot. So it comes from the S. rebadiana leaves. And they contain more than 20 things called stevial glycosides. People might see... Like when you get Stevia, different brands, you might see like RebA on the back. And that's because there's different...

Melanie Avalon
These different glycosides that people use to create the sweetness. So some use the stevia side, some use this Rebodeoside A and might focus on that aspect of it. So I'm gonna call it RebA. RebA, for example, is 150 to 320 times sweeter than sugar sucrose, while Stevia side is 100 to 270 times sweeter. So similar to monk fruit is the situation where you get like a tiny, tiny bit and it makes everything feel very sweet. So Stevia has been found to have anti-hyperglycemic, so anti-high blood sugar potential, also good for potentially good for blood pressure. It may be a diuretic, it may have anti-cancer effects. It's also found to have polyphenolic compounds in it, which actually have antioxidant properties. It has been shown to stimulate insulin production, which can help lower blood sugar. This is why that we talk a lot about the clean fast and not having Stevia, because it could cause your body to release insulin, lower your blood sugar and then make you know a little bit cravy-ish during the fast.

It's also been shown to have anti-inflammatory, antibacterial and immunomodulating properties. And then as a side note, I know it's been used actually to treat like Lyme disease. And I know that because I went down that whole rabbit hole and they were saying that could help like break up biofilms and potentially treat Lyme. So Stevia has been studied for its potential benefits for type 2 diabetes. And so the results have been mixed. So some have found that it... One study found that they didn't really have an effect on HPA1C or blood sugar levels, but it was well tolerated and there weren't side effects. And then as well, another study also found that it did not affect blood sugar, HPA1C, insulin or lipid levels in patients, meaning it basically could be a healthy substitute for sugar, but they didn't necessarily see like any additional benefit, but you could get the sweetness without the problems of sugar essentially. In rats though, it's shown to have more concentrated beneficial effects with blood sugar levels. And so like I was saying, so it might affect insulin, but there's extensive research that it does not raise blood sugar or actually affect blood sugar management. So it's actually... Let's see. So in 2022, the American Diabetes Association, which I'm not going to like throw shade at them. I'll just say that their recommended diet, I would not agree with, but they did recommend non-nutritive sweeteners as acceptable substitutes for sugar for people with diabetes, as long as people do not overcompensate and eat more from other things. So basically that's Stevia, that's mong fruit. There's also this one, and I will circle back... Actually, I'll talk about erythritol now. So erythritol is a sugar alcohol. So erythritol is a sugar alcohol, and it's often used as a bulking agent. So basically, you'll find a lot of products that mix together mong fruit and erythritol or Stevia and erythritol. And that's because for different reasons, because of how well erythritol might bake, because the texture, depending on what they're going for, the blend is more approachable to some people.

Melanie Avalon
So they'll use it to... Basically, it's used to just make different options for these natural non-chloric sweeteners that either would taste better or would bake well. Erythritol, I liked because other sugar aquatols are things like xylitol, sorbitol, and those can have not good effects. I know with sorbitols, often in sugar-free gum. And back in the day when I would chew a lot of gum, when I was addicted to gum, I would get a lot of stomach upset from that.

Xylitol, I also would get stomach upset from. But xylitol, they use a lot, actually, because it's really good for the mouth. It actually has a beneficial effect on mouth bacteria, breaks down biofilm. It's a good option for your mouth. That's why it's often in mouth washes and, again, in gums and such. Erythritol, when it came out, it was kind of... I guess not when it came out, but when it became really popular, they kind of were saying that it had all these benefits without any of the problems with the other sugar alcohols.

That's really the difference between monk fruit versus monk fruit plus erythritol. It's just, depending on what you're going for, if you're baking... She said she wanted tiramisu. It might be a thing where you find a product that to bake with, you would need that erythritol blend to replace sugar. So it's really kind of a personal preference. It's actually like a sense of sugar alcohol. Those are actually naturally found in fruits and erythritol is about 70% as sweet as sugar. It's also very low calorie. It does not seem to affect insulin, does not seem to affect blood sugar. It's much more well tolerated than the other sugar alcohols. And then I wanted to draw attention to Alulose, which she did not ask about, but it's become more and more popular. It's cool because it has, again, basically almost no calories, and yet it seems to actively reduce A1c. So a level of people's blood sugar markers over time and type 2 diabetes, they found that in a 2024 meta-analysis.

It may increase the tiety hormones. It's been shown to potentially reduce body fat. Out of all of these, it tastes the closest to sugar, in my opinion. And what's cool about it is it actually competes with the receptor for glucose. I think it competes in your intestine for either sucrose or glucose. So the effect is that it actually can potentially make it so that you don't absorb other sugar. So it may have a beneficial effect in that way. So it actually may improve insulin sensitivity and may have beneficial effects. And I remember when it first came out, I was like, hmm, I'm suspicious. How can this have all these benefits and no side effects? But I mean, it's been a while now and I haven't seen anything negative from it. I think out of all the different ones, I kind of feel like it may have the most health benefits. But then again, it's hard to know because I mentioned all those other benefits with stevia and monk fruit.

Melanie Avalon
So my thoughts on all of these are, I feel like if you, I would not use them during the fast, like I was saying, because even if studies show that they don't affect insulin, they don't affect blood sugar, that sweetness while you're fasting is sending your body the wrong signals. I don't care if in a study, they find that it didn't actually affect insulin levels. The sweetness experience while fasting is, at least for me, and I think for a lot of people, is going to take you out of the fasting vibe. It's not going to make fasting easier, in my opinion.

But when you're wanting to bake, if you're wanting to reduce your sugar levels, I think a lot of these either are neutral or might have benefits. So if Tina is wanting her tiramisu and she wants to bake it, she wants to stay low carb and she wants to bake it, with sugar, I would definitely look into these. I would actually, I know she asked about monk fruit and monk fruit erythritol. I would probably look into Alilah's for baking, personally. Although I guess tiramisu. Wait, tiramisu? Is tiramisu baked at all? It is, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's like the cake and then the stuff. I don't like tiramisu. I don't like a tiramisu. Really? You don't? Yeah, because it's got that coffee flavor, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it does.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of coffee-flavored food. Are you?

Barry Conrad
Interesting cuz you know what about affogato have you had a forgot we talked about this.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, we talked about this. So that's coffee flavored.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but it's more like a drink and you still eat the ice cream with the coffee and the liqueur.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah. Nia, no, they got pounds. I just like my coffee in the morning, you know, plain.

Barry Conrad
Just a teaspoon. Just... Yeah. Bye.

Melanie Avalon
So that was a lot.

Barry Conrad
There's really comprehensive that I didn't know, but the, the latter one, do you mentioned never heard of it before until Ali, yeah, I'd never heard of it before. Until now, it's really cool.

Melanie Avalon
So do you use artificial, or I keep calling them artificial, do you use any of these natural non-chloric sweeteners?

Barry Conrad
Tina, first of all, let me say that I feel you in terribus who won by it is never enough because it's so delicious. But to answer your question, yeah, I've actually used it to... I went through a phase of cooking, trying to cook desserts with baked desserts without sugar.

So I use like monk fruit and monk fruit and erythritol blend. There's a brand that I use called Whole Earth and I used to make raspberry ripple, which is like this... Do you know what that is, Mel? It's like a...

Melanie Avalon
Sounds like we're like, what's it called, like river wrapping, like river rapids.

Barry Conrad
It's kind of, well, it's pretty much tastes like that in your, in your belly. It's like dark chocolate and raspberry. And you basically make this concoction with the sweetener, which I use mung fruit, and then you freeze it and then you smash it into pieces and you have like little, it's like a slice, like a healthy chocolate slice. It's really good.

Wow. You smash it. Like you'd evolve picture. Like get Mel's, uh, Take the tenderizer. And once the, it comes out in like this one sheet of like chocolate and raspberry ripple and monk fruit or whatnot. And you just smash it into bits and pieces and you just eat it.

Melanie Avalon
Nice, you're gonna have to like open, you should open a Australian restaurant here.

Barry Conrad
You know what what are my dreams don't tell me you want to have a restaurant. Well it's pretty it sounds pretty far fetched but i'm always like i've always thought of names for what i would call it and everything and just like how exciting would be.

What would you call it all this so many things what one of the names is bountiful.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, like that.

Barry Conrad
but there's lots of different names. But just like, yeah, I like the idea, even if it's like something small or even like a hot sauce or just like something edible that people can eat, something, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you should do it. Yes. Yes. I say yes.

Barry Conrad
but I won't use, or maybe I will use monk fruit. I'm not too sure. Would you ever want to open up a restaurant?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, why not? I would love to have like a Michelin star restaurant.

Barry Conrad
I can see that. It would have to be really legit. Everything would be sourced.

Melanie Avalon
Super sustainable, super fresh.

Barry Conrad
only blue meat, like no, no, well done, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. I would not enforce. I don't know.

But I don't know if we would cook above like, I don't know. No, we want people to be happy. We'll do it. But it could be like actually it could be based around like, non toxic cooking methods as well. So maybe we wouldn't actually cook anything like really chart or anything.

Barry Conrad
Oh, we talked about the char, that's right. Oh, and I charred something the other night. Accidentally, accidentally, corn.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, was it good? Yes. Nice. We should brainstorm about food. Yes. You should totally create a product though. That'd be awesome. Like a food product.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that'd be really fun because it's very me, so it makes sense.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. Well, anything else on that question?

Barry Conrad
No, well, not at all. I think you summed it up so comprehensively. That was awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome, thank you. All right, so we have another question.

So this question is from Amy, also from Facebook. And Amy says, I'm seeing a lot lately that one meal a day is the best for fat loss. Would you recommend it for someone that should lose 20 pounds? Is this too much stress long-term?

Barry Conrad
Amy, how's it going? I hope you're having a good day so far. Thank you for your question. And you're definitely not alone in asking this question.

There's a lot of people out there wondering, you know, if OMAD or One Meal a Day is the, you know, the secret source for losing weight, losing fat. And honestly, I mean, that does make sense based on maybe the outside because it sounds clean, focused, efficient, eat once, fast for the rest of the time. And for some people, that sounds amazing. For me, I do OMAD as well. I probably fast for 20 hours a day on average and sometimes longer accidentally. And I love it. It works really well for me, Amy, my lifestyle, my energy, my goals. But, you know, I also know that no fasting protocol is a one size fits all.

It really depends on where you're at. So if your goal is to lose around 20 pounds, OMAD can absolutely work and often does because you're eating in a tighter window and giving your body that extra, like plenty of time to rest, digest, tap into stored fat and all of that is great. But here's also a bit of some nuance here. Just because something can work, it doesn't always mean it's the best place to start, especially if your body's already under stress because OMAD, while it sounds really simple in theory, it's still like all intermittent fasting, a stressor.

So you're asking your body to go 20 to maybe 23 hours without food and then take in all of your nutrition. So that's like protein, your fiber, your micronutrients, your calories, all in one go. And for volume eaters like Melanie, like myself, that's pretty easy and we love it. But for a lot of people that I know personally when they hear it, that's just like, how do you do that? It's too much in one go, especially if you're new and you're highly active, can't eat as much in a smaller window, or maybe you're just not as dialed into what your body needs. So it can also be harder to hit that protein in one go if that's you, which is really, really important if you wanna lose fat as well without losing muscle, especially for like longer term metabolic health as well, Amy.

And there's also cortisol. So we've talked about this before on the podcast, Amy, that stress isn't just mental, it's also biological. So if you've already, for example, got a lot going on, say work or bad sleep, or just super intense work, for example, stacking OMAD on top of that straight away might not be the best decision. It could maybe backfire because your bodies can interpret that as one stressor too many, because when your cortisol goes up, it can lead to that water retention or stalled fat loss sometimes, even though you feel like you're doing everything quote unquote, right.

So I reckon if you're curious about OMAD and you wanna try it, great, but give yourself a bit of permission to experiment, just see how you go. Start it out if it feels good. If you're recovering well, sleeping well, getting enough protein and nutrients in that one sitting, you're probably on the right track and give it some time to see how that goes, not one day or even a few days.

Barry Conrad
But if you're noticing maybe like signs of burnout or plateau or fatigue, don't be shy to pull back and try a different protocol or a more moderate approach, something like 18.6 or whatnot, coupled with maybe dialing in more food choices could be really good. And that's a lot more sustainable for a lot of people as well.

At the end of the day, like we say a lot, it's a tool. And it's also a tool best used when it's intentional, Amy. Oh man, it's awesome, but it's not a pill. Just listen to your body, give it a go and let us know. Let us know how you go and keep us updated. What do you think, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
That was awesome. I feel like you nailed it.

So one meal a day in and of itself as a concept, if you're eating enough food is not automatically, you know, too much stress. And at the same time, like Barry was saying, the context of everything is so important. So, you know, if you're not getting any, if you're doing any sort of fasting protocol and you're not getting enough nutrition in the window, then that's going to become, you know, more of a stressor to your body. Actually, I should, I should re say what I said, because, because fasting is a hormetic stress, but it's a beneficial stress where your body actually, you know, is informed by it to come back stronger. So it's a stress that we like when it tips into the, the non beneficial stress is when we're not giving our bodies what they need to properly, you know, rebound from that stress. So like Barry was saying, making sure you're getting enough protein, and then not just, you know, protein, making sure you're getting enough nutrients. And it's interesting because fasting, you know, the people will debate this all day, you know, are the effects just from calorie restriction? Like, are you ultimately eating less? And that's why it works. Regardless, fasting works for a lot of people, because it makes them naturally eat less, which you might naturally do in a one meal day type pattern. I think there's something really important to pay attention to, which there's a difference, in my opinion, between eating less calories than you need, but enough nutrients, compared to less calories than you need, but not enough nutrients. So if you're eating a calorie restrict, if you're doing one meal a day, and, and it makes you be quote, calorie restricted, and that's all from like processed foods, or non nutrient rich foods, so you're not getting your vitamins, you're not getting your minerals, you're not getting your your minimal protein, then that's going to be a stressor to the body, compared to if it's calorie restricted, you're eating less, but you're getting adequate protein, you're getting the vitamins, the minerals that your body needs to actually function, then you can that's what, you know, welcomes you to a lot more effortless compared to normal dieting weight loss.

So I think context is key. And like Barry was saying, you know, all of your lifestyle surrounding it, are you getting enough sleep? Do you have a lot of like mental stress as well? So as far as like, is it best for fat loss? No, not necessarily. For some people, yes, it might be best for you if you're a person where that's what works for you. But for other people, the best fasting for weight loss might be ADF, or it might be a, like a longer window that you do more consistently. So we can't really make a blanket statement about somebody needs to lose 20 pounds, what's the best approach? I wish we could, that would make it so much easier. But actually, actually, I wonder if it's still working. Let me see. I have a quiz I made. A quiz? Yeah, I think though I think we talked about this. Because I think you took it like right when we started recording. Am I am I like making up memories? No.

Barry Conrad
A poll is a quiz.

Melanie Avalon
So if you go to Melanie Avalon.com slash if quiz, I actually made a quiz forever ago that can help you find what might be your best fasting window.

Do you remember this? I feel like Barry, I feel like you took it.

Barry Conrad
I don't know if I did, I can't remember it now.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like I feel like we okay, we're gonna have to take it. You're not you're gonna take it Wait, do you want to take it right now and see what it gives you?

Yeah, okay So Barry just took it. I just retook it too. Yes, and I got we both got the same thing, right? We got the meal approach

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So for that one, that's where I recommend that you choose one or two meals to consume each day. You snack in between the meals within the general eating window, but not beyond that. You don't have to count hours or look at the clock. You just stick to your meals.

So you can do breakfast or breakfast and lunch, lunch, lunch and dinner, dinner, dinner and snacking till bed. That's me. So the one meal a day would fit in here because that would be like if you do dinner only or like lunch only. Yeah. The other options that it can give you. One is like looking at the clock. So like I literally, you literally just eat between two and six or, you know, it's like a time on the clock. And then another option it gives you is just counting the minimal fasting hours. So like I'm going to fast this amount of hours, I fast this amount of hours. I think I actually have to double check. I made this quiz so long ago because you don't.

Barry Conrad
I don't use an app at all anymore. I don't as well. I told you Mel, I gave it up here.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean because how do you think do you view it from like the meals that you're eating or how do you or the clock or

Barry Conrad
I kind of just make sure that I get like the minimum fasting hours in and I don't worry as much about like sometimes for example if something's going on and it's a longer even if it's a longer time eating at time which is rare but I'm not fast as long as I get the 20 hours in

Melanie Avalon
So you know what I need to do, this is really helpful. Again, I took that, I made that quiz so long ago. By the way, it's really, have you made a quiz before like that? It's complicated.

Cause you basically have to like, you have to come up with all the answers and then you have to decide how everything is weighted. So like, and there's different ways you can do it. Like some things lead to different trails. Like if you answer one thing, it leads you somewhere else. This one doesn't do that. This one is a weighted quiz. But so what I need to do, cause I know there's a question in there that asked or the answer said, like all that matters to you is that you fast like a minimum amount of hours. So I need to go in and weight that way more so that if somebody clicks that, they're probably going to get that answer unless, unless something else, you know, contradicts it, I guess.

Barry Conrad
It's way more freeing as well, I reckon, just having the app and just being a bit more... Just trust your body as well and you know what you're doing after a while.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I used to count the fasting hours. So I had to fast like a minimum amount, but it was always a one meal day dinner situation.

I guess I just kind of like let that go eventually. And then I was like, okay, I'm just eating dinner.

Barry Conrad
Same, same.

Melanie Avalon
Which speaking of well, first of all, thank you so much Amy for the question Shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment?

Barry Conrad
I love how that's rolling with your tongue so smooth and quickly now.

Melanie Avalon
It just rolls off the tongue. I don't even know what I'm saying. I don't even, you know?

Barry Conrad
And yes, that's the answer. Yes, I am.

Melanie Avalon
I am so excited about this restaurant I found.

Barry Conrad
Is it a Disney restaurant? It's not. Whoa, is it American?

Melanie Avalon
Yes.

Barry Conrad
Okay. Also, Mel, I saw in your Facebook group, one of your long-term, long-time supporters, Damon in there, he was like, when I said I was in America, he said, it's time to, time to go to those, those restaurants you guys go over.

Yeah, yeah. Cause I'm there. And he's like, you know, we should film it. And he's like, we got to do it.

Melanie Avalon
I know. We have to. We're like so close now.

Barry Conrad
I know. It's happening.

Melanie Avalon
So listeners, Barry, I just realized there's not, I can't find a menu online, but I'm going to tell you about the restaurant and you can, and I think, and you can tell me if you would do this and what you would get. I think we can come up with what we think we would get. Sounds good. Let's do it.

I don't think I would go though. So you'll see why. You'll see why. Okay. So this restaurant is called the Magic Meadows Yurt. And it is a restaurant housed inside a massive fort in Crested Butte, Colorado. It's only open from December to March. And here it comes, ready? It requires diners to first trek a mile long trail, either by cross country ski or snowshoe to get there. And then they have a five course Saturday dinner. So basically, okay, let me tell you more about it. So it's all inclusive. It's $185 per person, multi-course meal, drinks, gratuity, oh, and everything is included as far as like the, the equipment they give you to get there and the trail passes. So basically, here's how. Okay. So it starts at 4.30 local time. You meet at the Nordic Center, you get equipped with gear to make the trek. You can either ski or snowshoe. And then you ski on your own or you can carpool to the trailhead to snowshoe over. The doors of the restaurant open at 6. They greet you with drinks, including local options from the Montana distillery and small bites. And then they begin dinner at 6.30. It's a gourmet meal prepared by Chef Tim Egglehoff, who's well known for his cuisine. And it's inspired by iconic Colorado foods. And it's also seasonal. And so reviewers of it, they say that it's cool because it's an exclusive location. You have this feeling of warmth as you enter this fort yurt in the, from the snow. They keep the yurt warm by a wood stove. The dining is intended to be leisurely. So it's a couple of hours where you go through these courses. And then the reviewers note that the most difficult part is you actually have to go back afterwards in the cold weather. You have to trek back. So I can't find the menu online because it looks like it's very

Barry Conrad
Actually, Mel, can you look at the link that I just sent you? I may have just found a sample, but it's like has photos and like what, yeah, like of like, we can look at their five course. I don't know if you're gonna like it.

Melanie Avalon
Somebody who reviewed it.

Barry Conrad
I think so and they have like if you go all the way will keep scrolling you'll see like photos of like the five things.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so these people, when did they go? Is there a date on this, on this post?

Oh, 2000, this is 2014 that these people went. So I, let's see when they went, they got, let's see, goat cheese, pesto, roasted garlic on Christina.

Barry Conrad
Okay, I'd get that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would not get that and then they got mixed green salad with pear pomegranate feta. That sounds good. You can have mine. They got better not squash soup.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, I'll probably pass on that no

Melanie Avalon
And then they had, so their entree was steak a poivre, brandy cream sauce, garlic mashed potatoes, roasted carrots. I would get steak, I would do a lot of modifications.

Barry Conrad
But what if, what if they have a limited, because if it's in a tent, I wonder if what the situation's like, you know, if it's like.

Melanie Avalon
It's a fort.

Barry Conrad
I'm picturing like just a big camp, right?

Melanie Avalon
Do you see the pictures of the building at the top? It reminds me, oh my goodness, when you were little,

Barry Conrad
all the time.

Melanie Avalon
Wasn't that so fun?

Barry Conrad
So fun, like blankets and like, yeah, everything, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I remember, have I told this story about what I did in college? What? Like my freshman year of college when you're like living with, you know, people like on your floor. It was one of the holidays where everybody went home, but we didn't go home. I think Thanksgiving holiday.

So me and one of my best friends on my floor, we, for the whole holidays that we were there, we built a fort in my room and we slept in it every night on the floor.

Barry Conrad
Really?

Melanie Avalon
Cause there's like nobody around. We're like, you know what? We're going to build a fort and we're going to sleep in the fort every night.

How many months did you do that? I don't know how long the vacation, I mean, how long, however long like Thanksgiving holiday was. So probably like, probably like a week.

Barry Conrad
That's pretty impressive. That's commitment to the cause right there, the full cause.

Melanie Avalon
Because I think I went back every other. I don't know how many times I went back and didn't, but I was from Atlanta.

She was in Texas. So we weren't going to fly back just for Thanksgiving, especially when you're going to fly back for Christmas, shortly thereafter. So yeah, I'm all about the Fort. I'm getting flashbacks to Fort life right now, looking at these pictures.

Barry Conrad
It's so funny because I'm picturing the melody now and like a long black dress building a fort, you know, like I'm just, it's just a different.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Melanie and I would not sleep in a fort on the ground in her dorm room with another person.

Barry Conrad
No, no, no, no. No, it's everything.

Melanie Avalon
No, it's just so much no's. I can't even... Well, it looks like they have some choices because when this person went in 2014, the guy got a steak and the... I'm assuming it's a woman. She got herb-crested salmon. So there must have been choices.

Oh, we selected our manes. Okay, that's good to know. They got... They selected their... And if they're using your words, manes, they selected their... Maybe they're Australian. They... We selected our manes when we purchased our seats for the dinner. So, oh, there was a choice between salmon, chicken, steak and mushroom risotto. So I guess when you buy the tickets is when you get to pick what you're having.

Barry Conrad
All right

Melanie Avalon
And then dinner, okay, so dinner wasn't until nine and they had flourless chocolate cake. Oh wait, what would you get between, so what would you get, look at us like going rogue and figuring this out.

What would you get between salmon, chicken, steak, and mushroom risotto for your meal?

Barry Conrad
I would do the steak.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, hands down.

Melanie Avalon
I think I would, I think when getting these tickets, I'd be like, okay, listen, here's the deal. Oh, I have a proposition.

I will buy this ticket and you can just not give me any courses. Can I just get salmon, plain, chicken, plain, steak, plain, and I'll pay like an upcharge and you can like give it to me in whatever order you want.

Barry Conrad
Okay, what would you do if I wanted to plan a trip and I'd surprise you with something like this? Would you be mad or would you be happy? And you had no idea where we're going?

Melanie Avalon
That reminds me, we have to talk about surprise parties. Can we talk about that next episode? Because it relates to this. So the question is, how are you surprising me?

Barry Conrad
So I'm saying, hey, I booked us, you know, this is after we've met and everything in real life and everything. So this is maybe three or maybe the fourth time we hang out in person. I was like, I booked this trip. It's going to be really fun.

It's in theme with the restaurants we're doing. It'll be fun. I'm not going to tell you where, I'm just surprising you. And then we turn up and it's this place.

Melanie Avalon
Well, so here's the thing. So if you did that, if you proposition me with this, I would trust you.

I'd be like, he's going to do something he knows I like, but then if you did this where I have to hike, I think Barry, you would be on very slippery slopes.

Barry Conrad
Imagine your face would just drop and be like, oh, no.

Melanie Avalon
But can you imagine having to hike back after the meal when it's like cold at nine?

Barry Conrad
No, I think if there was the accommodation was right there, that's different, you know, but if you had to hike there and then the accommodation got sent up in some car, like in the hikers as part of it and you just stayed the night, that's different. But if you have to hike back, no, no way.

Melanie Avalon
Really? You're a no?

Barry Conrad
No.

Melanie Avalon
Wow. Okay. I wasn't expecting that. I think I mean, I'm on the same page. I agree. I mean, yes. I guess I thought yeah, I guess I thought you'd be down.

Barry Conrad
No. Okay.

If, if that's part of the whole thing of, okay, we know that we're going because we want to hike and it's that, that's the, that's the thing cool. But if, cause after eating, I feel relaxed and like, I don't want to be doing a hike, you know?

Melanie Avalon
It literally sounds horrible, no, but I support this for people who I support this restaurant. I think it's really cool. It's just not my, I just can't.

Barry Conrad
Because it says they started what did you say they start eating at nine p.m.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, the dessert came by nine for those people. So it looks like they, from the other thing we read, which was much more recent, because I saw this article recently, they said, you start eating at 630. And then I guess it's a couple hours. So I guess it goes from like 630 to, you know, like, you're probably there till 10.

Then you have to hike back a mile. I can't. It literally sounds horrible.

Barry Conrad
That's nothing. That's okay. I can do that.

Melanie Avalon
Barry? What? Wait, you just you were just saying how like, oh, you don't you don't want to like, think about okay, think about you like that I'm like trying to convince you now to like stick to I gave you grief for your for your answer and I'm trying to convince you to stick with it.

Barry Conrad
I think the timing, if it was super late, there's no chance. But if it's like earlier and like, that's just like one part of the night.

And then we hike back and then do something else cool. Like I don't drinks or something down by the place we're staying, then sweet.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I just feel like me being there, like if I was in there for, you know, having these courses, I would be thinking the whole time, I gotta, after this, I gotta go outside and hike back.

Barry Conrad
You'd hate it.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder what happens when people, like, can't. I wonder if they have, like, a backup snowmobile. I bet they do.

Barry Conrad
It wouldn't be that kind, like people just, they're too full.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, if they've been around since at least 2014, based on that blog post, that's a decade. There's definitely been people who have not been able to go back after, who either refuse or are too drunk.

They have a backup plan, I'm sure.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I don't know, one of those people's like, I'm not, yeah, you'd be so, I'm just picturing your face. You would not be impressed.

You'd be, you'd probably like, be like, thanks. Oh, when you present this to me. Like, thanks Barry, but, and just imagine part of the thing is we're stuck there and there's no other planes or anything out until two days later. So you have to, you have to do it.

Melanie Avalon
Well, wouldn't it be like we would we would get to this location in Colorado and then I would realize what the situation is And then I would just refuse to go

Barry Conrad
What would you do? You just wait down there?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm sure there's other I mean, this is not I'd be like, okay, you can go. I'll find somebody who can take my spot.

Barry Conrad
But what if I said, well, you know, Dave Asprey and all these other friends of yours waiting up there because it's like a thing for you, you know, they're all waiting for you.

Melanie Avalon
Like it's like this whole party with all these people. I would look into what is their alternative way of getting there and getting back. Oh man, that was fun.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, fun. Try to figure that out. I'm just picturing like a really funny Netflix rom-com or something. It just sounds like that.

Melanie Avalon
It does. We should write it. We should make it. We should not do it though.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's definitely not a Melanie Avalon restaurant.

Melanie Avalon
Nope, I'm adding it right now. So for listeners, I will put a link in the show notes to the article about it and then also to the website if you would like to reserve.

So they start, you have to reserve. So, oh, this is perfect timing because this airs mid-July, the dinners they start going on sale August 1st and the dinners start in December. Oh, oh, some of them have live music. Wait a minute. Oh, if you're there, New Year's Eve. New Year's Eve. Thank you.

Barry Conrad
No, but a lot of music sounds cool. Like on an unlike another occasion.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, let me really quickly have live music other days. Oh, also January 3.

February 14. Oh, so Valentine's Day. And March 21. Is that what like the Ides of March or something? Or is that like the last? It's the last day they do it.

Barry Conrad
Imagine going on Valentine's Day on a date and then having to hike back.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my gosh.

Barry Conrad
We always talk about dates, like what changes between the car and the place? Lots of things, everything, especially after this hike.

Melanie Avalon
Oh man we're done. I'm out. Oh man this is why it's called Saint Massacre's Day, right? Isn't it originally like a... it's a really dark holiday, the background of it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
sounds doc especially if you go somewhere like this and you're not a hiker so okay this is really fun for listeners you can get links to everything that we talked about all the things and a full transcript when you go to if podcast comm slash episode 430 you can get all the stuff that we like at if podcast comm slash stuff we like brief reminder that beauty counter now counter is coming back get on my clean beauty email list to get all the things from me that's at Melanie Avalon comm slash clean beauty the link for that go to Melanie Avalon comm slash counter co you and ter oh by the way Barry do you want to give your link for your email list again

Barry Conrad
Sure, you can go to barryconradofficial.com slash newsletter.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Awesome.

And you can follow us on Instagram. We are I a podcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go.

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to spend with us and to listen to the podcast and we'll see you next week.

Melanie Avalon
First I thought you were talking to me. I was like, you're welcome. I was like, oh, no, no, no, but same, same to the listeners. Well, this was so fun and I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
See you next week, bye!

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

Jul 07

Episode 429 – Ketogenic Diets Vs. Fasting, Switching In And Out Of Keto, L-Carnitine For Fat Burning For Fat Burning, Unique Fasting Health Benefits, Increasing Stress Resistance, Longer Fasting And Cortisol, Wall Decorations – Mixtiles, Burning Fat In The Mitochondria, Creatine Supplementation, And More!

⁠Common and divergent molecular mechanisms of fasting and ketogenic diets ⁠

Welcome to Episode 429 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

HARVEST RIGHT

LMNT

PIQUE FASTING TEAS

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Rules⁠

⁠Banter with BC⁠

STUDIES

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 429 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 429 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I'm doing great. I'm doing really, really good today.

It's an amazing day here in Sydney, counting down the days before I leave, actually, soon-ish. And yeah, just in work mode at the moment. Actually, very excited to be having my first chef on my show Banter with BC, which I'm so excited about.

Melanie Avalon
That's cool!

Barry Conrad
It is really cool what type of restaurant so basically you know listen as you know like we love food and we love celebrating the fast and the feast and so to have a chef on the show is gonna be awesome so. This guy his name is Mitch or he's like he's known as like the prince of pasta here in Australia like he's just done so much he's. Has like international experience like that the stereo Francesca in Italy is a one awards is a master chef like he's like it. Big deal some super excited to have him on the show and talk about food and just kind of get into a chef's brain I've actually never done anything like that before so should be fun I can't wait.

Melanie Avalon
That's so exciting. That's so fun. Are you like, how do you how do you prep for that show, by the way?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so basically, like all research on the guests and whatnot, so I can ask them interesting questions. But then we have a couple fun segments to kind of bookmark it.

But yeah, definitely. If they have something that they want to talk about specifically, we make sure that we focus more on that. But yeah, just do a deep dive. I spent like an afternoon or evening just going in and just researching as much as I can, probably much like you do, Mel, for guests on the Melanie Avalon podcast, you know, and and focus on the things that they want to talk about.

Melanie Avalon
Have you been to any of his restaurants?

Barry Conrad
I haven't yet, but that has to change. I mean, this is very, as I'm sure you know as well, like trying to get guests sometimes it's like touch and go like, can you, can't you, are you available? And then it like just happened. So haven't gone to his restaurant yet, but that's going to change.

Have to taste his cooking. But the restaurant that we have banter with BC at, I was kind of nervous. Like, is this nerve-wracking to have a chef come to your restaurant? You know what I mean? So I gave them as much notice as I could, so they could be like, okay, make sure that we get our, get our stuff together. They don't have to cause they're amazing anyway, but I'm excited just to, I don't know, dive into someone's brain who just deals with food all the time. And just how he, he said the only thing he doesn't eat is raw crustaceans, but he kind of eats everything. So yeah, it'd be interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Interesting but raw crustacean. So does he think that that's the one thing that you're most likely to get a problem from like get something from?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, I'll ask him why, like... Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Ask him that. Oh, let's brainstorm. Let's go with questions now.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, for real. So I think, yeah, I'm just actually really, really excited about that, because it's just something different, because usually it's actors and musicians and TV hosts and more front facing people.

So to have a chef, so excited.

Melanie Avalon
So cool. Well, congrats. We will put a link in the show notes to the show so people can watch.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. And see all the food and him talk about the food and, and Mel, if you have any questions that you think could be interesting, actually for real, let me know.

Cause that could be something I could ask him.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, like, man, so many things. I would need to like look more at his, like his restaurants and everything. Actually, this is a big question I would have for chefs in general, especially if they're like at nice restaurants. How do you accommodate having these meals and these entrees and these recipes?

And also, because at the nicer restaurants, you know, they tend to get the food fresh. So how do you, like, what if they don't have what you need to make the meals that you want to make? Like, so how do you, basically, how do you plan? How do you plan both ingredient sourcing to align with your meals? And does the ingredient availability like inform how like the recipes that you create? It's like, how do you deal with that? Because it's like also a business, you know, it's not just

Barry Conrad
He's also, that's a really good question. He's actually known for fusing like Italian pasta techniques with Japanese and Southeast Asian flavors. So it's really unique, especially for someone that's from Australia.

So emphasizing umami sort of like rich dishes. So it sounds delicious, actually. I can't wait to taste this stuff.

Melanie Avalon
You should ask him if he does intermittent fasting.

Barry Conrad
I'll ask him for sure, because he probably does a lot of people that do as well.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh my goodness. Congrats.

Barry Conrad
Thanks.

Melanie Avalon
How are you doing? Can I tell you a quick fun fact about chefs? Go ahead. Would you believe one time I kissed a chef on reality television? Did you really? Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Okay, tell me more. I need to know. And how have I not heard the story yet?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. I haven't thought about this in years. I, uh, there was this show, it was called knife fight. Knife fight, I think, or food fight kitchen. I don't, okay. I think it was called one of those and then it switched to the other. I'm not sure. It was on one of the like food related networks. I think it basically was like a competition with two chefs that had to like, we're given ingredients and then they had to, you know, they had certain, it was like an hour and they had to like make the ingredients and then it was always like celebrity judges. So like Elijah Wood was like on it and stuff like that. I was on it a few times because like the way it set up is that it's at a restaurant. So I was like one of the people at the restaurant. One of the times they did it, they, I don't know, the chef that lost, they were like as a consolation prize, you can, oh, right, right, right. Okay. The, the chef that lost, if he lost, he was going to have to shave his beard because he had a beard and so he lost and they shaved his beard and then they were like, we'll find like a pretty girl to kiss you or something. And they're like, does anybody want to kiss him? And I was like, I'll do it.

Barry Conrad
And you just did it, you volunteered to do it?

Melanie Avalon
And it was on TV and then we went on a date.

Barry Conrad
That's hilarious. That's so funny. Is there is there footage of this situation? I need to see it.

Melanie Avalon
Probably, if we can find that episode. I think, oh, you know what?

I think on my Instagram, if you scroll way back, because they kept it, because I always use this like peppermint breath spray. So they kept in the show, I like spray some breath spray in my mouth and then kissed him.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny, Melanie. That's hilarious. It's just something that I thought that you would do. Isn't that funny? No, I know.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'll do it. I'll yeah, I'm like very, very like, I like doing stuff like that, like, just ran. I like like in life, like having moments that are, you know, why not? You only live once.

Barry Conrad
It's like the moment that you had when you- is it the magic mic show and you got the dance situation?

Melanie Avalon
That was that was your guys. That was Australia's the Australian magic men. They're from Australia. They're your people.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Was that fun? Did you like that?

Melanie Avalon
It was so fun, yeah, I went on stage. I was like, this is way more acrobatic than I thought it was gonna be.

Barry Conrad
Well, you thought it was going to be all, like, just, you know, jar rating and stuff.

Melanie Avalon
know what I thought. I don't know what I thought. Yeah, I thought it was going to be me sitting on a chair and things happening around me. I didn't realize it was immersive.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, well, that's, that was my visual. I thought that's why I thought, whoa, Mel, that's like hectic. So they weren't doing that. I'm picturing like.

Melanie Avalon
They you said they were doing that

Barry Conrad
I thought like you sitting in a chair and they were like, you know, grinding and like, you know, sexy dancing.

Melanie Avalon
like a lap dance or something. No, this is like, basically they, it's crazy. If friends go to my Instagram, it's a pinned, it's a pinned video, you can watch it. And I edited that to make it appropriate.

But basically when you're off stage, they're like, they're like, just, they're like, don't, they're like, just do, don't do anything. They're like, just let them lead you. And it's very talented because they literally make it look like you're involved in this whole thing and you're not doing anything. They're just whipping you around to the music. I think it requires a lot of talent. Don't think about it to like have all these drunk girls like, and like make it actually look, make it look good on stage. Who have no idea what's about to happen.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny and also I'm going to try to find that what is that the kitchen, whatever it is, I'll try to find it.

Melanie Avalon
It was called knife fight. It was on the Esquire network. Oh, guess what, very what? It's on Amazon Prime. What?

Barry Conrad
This is so funny and also great.

Melanie Avalon
And you would like it. It's like your type of show, you know, it's like food and stuff and the judges, okay, it's like judges, they have was like Elijah Wood, Drew Barrymore.

I don't remember who the judge was when I did it.

Barry Conrad
Okay, I'm checking it out.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I found the episode. Let's see. It was episode 8.

Barry Conrad
OK, I'm going to write that down so I can I'm actually going to look at it.

Melanie Avalon
Everybody go watch Episode 8 of Knifite on Amazon Prime.

Barry Conrad
Wow. Did you get a lot of like, did your friends and stuff in your family go, Melanie, what was the reaction when they saw it?

Melanie Avalon
That was the time of my life where I don't think anybody, I don't think any of my family saw it, but that was the time of my life where I was just doing random like crazy stuff like that, like all the time. So I don't think anything would have surprised them at that point in time.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. Well, thanks for the find, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I know. Oh man, I just remember though, that show, you had to stand there for like hours. Cause it was rough and it was hot and it was, but it was fun.

Barry Conrad
in the restaurant? How was the food? Do you remember how good the food was or not really?

Melanie Avalon
you don't get to eat any of it, you're just watching. I did it like two or three times, and one time the girl next to me fainted. I was like, oh, that's not good.

Hydrate. Hydrate. Stay hydrated. But yeah. Also, one quick thing before we jump into fasting-related things, or maybe I'll save it. Okay, I have a surprise for you. I'll save it until after we do some fasting-related stuff.

Barry Conrad
a surprise. Okay. I'm excited.

Melanie Avalon
Congrats on the chef and let me know how it goes. I'm excited for you. I definitely will. Are you gonna kiss him?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I think that'd be really great. Imagine that.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like I just got inspired by my co-host.

Barry Conrad
Are you down, bro? Is that okay?

Melanie Avalon
Or you gotta find a pretty girl to kiss him. That would be more in the character. Like a random patron at the restaurant.

Barry Conrad
You know, Melanie has this thing, listeners wish, she just thinks, was it you that said this way? Like you just think Australia is just like, you know, everyone's just happy and everyone's, you know, good looking and they were just gregarious, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Like when I think Australia, I think like hot temperature wise, but hot people to like attractive people like out in the sun who are super nice and drinking a lot and like looking at kangaroos.

Barry Conrad
which I think, yeah, it's not quite like that, but I think, you know, not completely wrong.

Melanie Avalon
I believe it. Okay, would you like some fasting-related content?

Barry Conrad
I'd love that. Let's go.

Melanie Avalon
So I have a study to start things off and it is called common and divergent molecular mechanisms of fasting and ketogenic diets. So this was published February 2024 in Trends in Endocrinology and Metabolism. And what I thought was so interesting was this is a study that actually, we talk a lot about intermittent fasting on this show. And we also talk a lot about like ketogenic diets and we talk about being in ketosis. And we know that both of those have a lot of effects. And I think a lot of times they get lumped together as one thing or like one concept. So this study actually looked at the differences between them.

So basically it says that intermittent fasting and keto diets. So a ketogenic diet would be when you're eating super, super low carb intake that actually puts you into a state of ketosis. Whereas fasting puts you into a state of ketosis during the fast, but you don't necessarily have to be eating low carb when you eat. So with intermittent fasting, you're not necessarily always in ketosis. With a ketogenic diet, you would always be in ketosis and you could combine them. So you could do like a keto diet and intermittent fasting at the same time and then that would always be in ketosis the whole time. So basically they say that they have overlapping but not identical effects on cell metabolism, function and resilience.

So they have a lot of beneficial effects that are very similar, but not quite the same. So for ketogenic diets, the majority of the health benefits are actually coming from the ketone bodies. So speaking of being in ketosis, when you go into ketosis, you create this alternative source of fuel for your body because normally we burn carbs for fuel, which is like blood sugar. We burn carbs from the food that we eat and we burn fat from the food fat stores and we can burn glucose from our carb stores. Those are typically our two options for fuel. When you go into fasting or doing a keto diet, your body actually starts creating these things called ketones, which are a very clean burning source of fuel that is very, like the body runs really well on it and it can actually fuel the brain. That's the main reason that we create it because the brain requires a lot of glucose. So when we're burning fat, the brain doesn't have this glucose. So it compensates by creating ketones that it can burn and those can actually meet up to, they'll say up to like 80% of the brain's needs can be met by ketones. It still does need some glucose always though. So you can actually just produce that from protein. So that's what happens when you're on a keto diet. Your body fills in the glucose need, the blood sugar, sorry, the sugar need for your brain by creating it itself from protein. And so these ketone bodies themselves, not only are they a source of fuel, but they're actually signaling molecules that have a lot of beneficial effects. So they do things like reduce oxidative stress. So just the very nature of them. They improve the mitochondria's efficiency and the mitochondria are the powerhouse, the part of the cell that actually creates energy. So they improve the mitochondria, which is amazing.

Melanie Avalon
And they inhibit histone deacetylases, and they control inflammation. So basically, this is saying that the keto diet, those are the main ways that we get the benefits from ketosis from a keto diet.

Compared to fasting, the main ways we get the benefits are autophagy, which is something that we talk about a lot. So that's where your body actually goes into your body and breaks down old proteins that need to be recycled. It recycles them and makes them anew. So it kind of cleans out your body and just makes everything work better. So you could get autophagy on a keto diet, but not necessarily as much because you might be eating more constantly. And autophagy tends to really ramp up in the fasted state. So autophagy is the main way that we get the benefits from fasting.

Increased insulin and leptin sensitivity. So insulin sensitivity, that helps with your blood sugar control and helping with how you utilize your fuel. And then leptin sensitivity. Leptin is a satiety hormone. Basically, when it goes up, you feel full. If you get desensitized to leptin, then you just never feel full. So fasting helps you be sensitized to it. So you actually feel full, which is great.

Fasting activates AMPK. We talk about that a lot in this show. It's a metabolic pathway in the body that is really only activated in a state of fuel deprivation, fasting, things like that. And it instigates a lot of processes in the body that support longevity, support cellular cleanup. It's just really great state to be in.

So that's pretty specific to fasting. And then it inhibits mTOR, which is the opposite of AMPK. So that makes sense, that goes together. So if AMPK is the state where you don't have fuel and you're recycling and you're supporting longevity pathways, mTOR is the state of growth. And that's what happens when we eat. That's when we build muscle. That's when we repair. So we repair actually in both states. So that's mTOR. And then so fasting also helps mitochondria resilience. So there's a little bit of overlap with the keto diet. I guess it just makes mitochondria, those powerhouses of our cells, be resilient. So work better in the faces of stressors and toxins because we are awash in those today. And then it also suppresses oxidative stress and inflammation, which was similar to a keto diet.

So it looks like the overlap there out of those things I listed was they both reduce oxidative stress, they both reduce inflammation, they both help the mitochondria. But things specific to fasting would be like that AMPK state, that autophagy, that reduction of mTOR. And then something more specific to keto diet would be like the inhibition of histone deacetylases. So those are enzymes that are involved in gene expression. So it's having basically an effect on the genetic level. By inhibiting those histones, there's been studies showing that it can help things like cancer and neurological disorders and inflammatory diseases. So that's the one that seems really unique to the keto diet.

Melanie Avalon
But what's really interesting is what they concluded at the end was they say, I just find this really interesting, frequent switching between ketogenic and non-ketogenic states may optimize health by increasing stress resistance, while also enhancing cell plasticity and functionality. So basically, the takeaway that they've come to with this is that maybe you being in a ketogenic state all the time, 24 seven would not be the way to get the maximum benefits when it comes to health because you're going to get some things when you're not in that ketogenic state.

So they're suggesting that having states of ketogenicness and non-ketogenicness, which you can get with fasting, that's the reason I love fasting is because then you can get that ketogenic state during the fast and then not while you're eating, that actually may be better to optimize your health, help with your stress resistance, help with your cells function. So yeah, that's that study, that was a lot. Do you have thought?

Barry Conrad
It was super interesting Melanie. What an amazing study you found.

It's so interesting that you chose this this week because I was actually just talking to again someone that I had on banter with BC and he's an actor and he was talking Dan McPherson and we were talking we were geeking out about nutrition and things like that and he was saying what works best for his body is fasting and keto combining the two so he yeah he was we were talking about you know what what do you follow to keep yourself in shape and he said actually my way of eating keto is the best for me like I've had to really pull back on carbs and so just like the fact that the ketones enhance that cognitive function it helps to preserve muscle as well so I feel like you know so it was really interesting and for me even based on one of our past conversations we talked about keto and me maybe experimenting but more with it I actually have consciously been doing that like on and off like alternate day more like super low carb kind of like kind of a bikido and then going back to kind of my regular which is still isn't really high carb and it's it is really interesting and I feel like yeah I've definitely see benefits and I feel better throughout the day so yeah combining the two even

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's, what's really interesting is so like combining would basically put you. Okay. How do I say this? So if you combine them, you're actually going to not, you might not get, well, I guess you would wait, let me think about this because basically by switching out of the keto state with fasting, you're getting these other benefits that you wouldn't get if you stayed constantly in the ketogenic state. Does that make sense?

So I feel like it goes both ways. Like I feel like on the one hand, you could have periods where you combine them and you probably might get even more benefits. And then at the same time, there is a benefit to not always being in the ketogenic state probably. So that's why there's this idea of they're saying like switching between the ketogenic and the non-ketogenic state to optimize health. What I find just really, really interesting about this though, is like I said, at the beginning, I feel like people just kind of really equate fasting with ketosis and being like, that's all the, all the benefits. So that's similar to a keto diet, but this is saying like, it's not like there's, it's similar, but there's, there's differences as well.

Barry Conrad
Like you were saying, this is an overlaps, but it's not actually the same, you know, is overlap, but it's not all the same.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. Because they say, for example, both ketogenic diets and fasting result in sustained ketosis. So both of them do have periods of being in ketosis, but fasting results in repeating cycles of mild ketosis. So you're having cycles of things. It's not quite as intense ketogenically as a ketogenic diet, but then at the same time, so I feel like, yeah, stacking them, you're probably going to get benefits from that as well.

It's really interesting.

Barry Conrad
But I think it's interesting what you said, Mel, about building resilience by the switching. And it made me think of just in general with a lot of diets or ways of eating, like even ADF or doing low or even carb cycling for people who train a lot. Like I feel like the body responds to not just being doing the same thing all of the time and to almost like, you know, shock the body or surprise it or just to make sense. Like you saying, like staying in that state all the time is not going to be as beneficial, but the switch is actually going to help build resilience. And do you know what I'm trying to say?

Melanie Avalon
Exactly, 100%. Basically, like we know that like, hormetic stress, so like a low amount of stress is a good thing.

And so switching in and out of these different states is actually, it's kind of like, I feel like exercise for the metabolism, you know, like it makes it more adaptable to going in and out of these states burning different fuel substrates, so you don't get pigeonholed into any one pathway or any one thing.

Barry Conrad
Oh, plateauing because of that too, you know, that's why sometimes people might not see the same the results that they want because they hit a plateau from doing the same thing and our bodies adjust and adapt really quickly, you know, like, so not all stresses bad stress, you know, and this is an example of that.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly.

Barry Conrad
Awesome study, Melanie!

Melanie Avalon
just one last thing to put a bow on it. The nice thing about fasting is that if you're not doing a keto diet while fasting, then it just automatically takes care of that. Then you automatically just will switch in and out of ketosis. You don't have to try to.

With a keto diet, it's like, okay, I have to try to get into ketosis by cutting my carbs. And you have to do that approach. But with fasting, if you just have a window, then you automatically will go on ketosis. And then if you're not eating keto diet for your food, you'll automatically go out. So it kind of just takes care of itself, if that makes sense.

Barry Conrad
It takes the thinking out of it.

Melanie Avalon
All right, shall we answer a listener question? Let's do it.

We have a question from Patty, and she says, my body tends to make a lot of cortisol. I was told that it's best to do shorter fast and that longer fast would create more cortisol. Is this true?

Barry Conrad
Okay, so hey, Patty, first off, thanks for your question. And especially because cortisol tends to, I think it gets a bad rapper. We were just talking about cortisol stress and everything. So I think this is worth unpacking a bit. Look, you're definitely, you're not a learner wondering about this. The whole, you know, fasting increases cortisol thing. You see it a lot online and while, I mean, there could be some true to it. It's not the whole picture. So with cortisol, it's your stress hormone, right? So it's not the villain though that it's made out to be.

So we actually need cortisol. It helps us wake up in the morning, keeps our energy stable, plays a role in in metabolism, the issue is when cortisol is chronically elevated. So that's when we start seeing, you know, poor sleep or fat retention, especially on the midsection or anxiety or burnout. But when it comes to fasting, yes, your body can release more cortisol, especially when you're doing those longer, longer fasts or under a lot of other, maybe emotional stress or physical stress. And yeah, fasting is a stressor and stress, like we just talked about, isn't inherently bad, it's actually a signal to the body to adapt. So that's something called homesis. So it's about balance. So for example, if your system's already tapped out and you throw in like a 36 or 48 hour fast into the mix, if you're already really tapped out, it might be a bit too much and push your cortisol high, but that's where shorter or daily fast come in handy and can actually be really smart. So for someone who like already tends to run high in cortisol, Patty, like doing something like a, like a 14, 10 or 16, eight, even like that kind of schedule could give you the benefits of fasting, better insulin sensitivity, improved digestion without overloading your system. Do you know what I mean? So you still get that break between meals, which helps your body reset. Also how you fast, I really think matters just as much as how long. So I'd ask, are you sleeping well? Are you hydrating? Are you breaking your fast for something nutrient dense, high in protein? All of those things, they really do influence the way your body handles stress, Patty. So you could technically be doing like a shorter fast, but if you're running on four hours of sleep and like chugging down coffees on an empty stomach and breaking your fast with like, let's say a pastry, that's going to spike your cortisol faster than if you, for example, did like a 24 hour fast in a calm, supported way. So to answer your question, yes, longer fast can increase cortisol, especially in someone who's already cortisol sensitive, but it's not, I don't think it's a hard rule that fasting is bad for cortisol. It's more about tuning in to what your body's saying. And if the shorter fast feel good now, that's valid. You can still get really good results for that. I mean, it should serve you at the end of the day. You know what I mean? I mean, I hope that helps. What do you think, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
You covered so much. That was absolutely amazing. Echo and agree with everything you said.

It's hard to know when she says shorter and longer. You know, that really requires a definition there. So what is shorter and longer? Is it shorter and longer within a day? So is it like you're looking at the difference between like a 14-hour fast versus an 18-hour fast, or is it you're looking at a daily fast versus a multi-day fast, which it's the longer fast like after a day where I think you're really going to start seeing, you know, much more cortisol release from the fast potentially where it might be too stressful for you? And like Barry was saying as well, it's very individual. It's very dependent on your personal cortisol levels and your body. I do think with women, it can be more of a problem than men as far as just putting the body into more of too much of a stressed out state. You can actually test your cortisol levels if you find a practitioner to work with. It's called the Dutch test. It's a urine test where you basically test, you basically take your urine at certain times all throughout the day, and then they actually can see your cortisol patterns, and they can see if you have a normal cortisol curve, what your levels are, because it's not even just the amount of levels, it's also the timing of it. So you might actually have normal cortisol levels, but it's not being released at the right times. Like you're, you know, you're getting it at night when you're supposed to be asleep, or you're not having it in the morning when it's very natural to release cortisol when you wake up. So basically, it's very individual. I would work with a practitioner to see where you're at with your levels, and then just do what feels right. I wouldn't be scared about fasting and cortisol. I would just be cognizant and aware of all the information. And, you know, if you're at all concerned, definitely stick within like shorter fast during the day is a good place to be. I don't like to say definitive numbers, but I'm prepping right now to interview Ben Greenfield for his book Boundless. And the reason I kind of not sighed, but I'm really excited because I've been following his work for like a decade and he's a legend. His book though, are you familiar with Ben Greenfield? I am, yeah. His book Boundless is so long, which is amazing, but I actually like read all the books. So the audio book is 41 hours.

Barry Conrad
What?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm basically just, and I didn't give myself enough time to prep it, so I'm basically just every second that I'm not doing something, I'm just listening to that book. But I bring it up, I bring it up because the section I just read, he was talking about this, and he recommends for women, like after 16 hours, he thinks they might have more issues with stress and fasting. So that's just what I read in his book.

Yeah, I think it's very individual. Okay, can I surprise you now? Yes, what is it? It will have already happened by the time this comes out, but I got us a new sponsor, and I think you'll think it's fun, and I want to know how you would engage with it if you were to do it.

Barry Conrad
Okay. Tell me, who is it?

Melanie Avalon
It's called mix tiles have you heard of them i think i.

Barry Conrad
I don't actually have a...

Melanie Avalon
Don't tell me they make your photos into like art for the like, you know, pictures and art for the wall, but it just sticks on the wall. Like it doesn't require nails. It doesn't mess up your walls.

And they have all of these different options and you can create like, like a, like a gallery type look, because it's like, you know, when you put up like a lot of pictures, kind of like, like, how do you say it? Like in a vibe, like, you know, like, like six or pictures or so, like in a, like on the wall, like in a square or like a design in a frame, like when people put like multiple pictures up.

Barry Conrad
like a collage sort of thing.

Melanie Avalon
Collage, yes, collage, like a gradient collage. So I was thinking it would be perfect for your in-between place because you wouldn't mess up the walls on your apartment.

Barry Conrad
That's awesome. What that's an amazing surprise and you're right because you kind of you don't want to jack up where you're staying By doing it because you don't have the time to anyway, but you don't want to mess up the place

Melanie Avalon
And so this makes it so easy. You like upload your photos and you, you know, you decide which gallery, like what situation there's your word that you want and they send it to you. And then you just put it on your wall.

And so my question for you is what would you, um, what would you put on your walls? Like what photos would you put if you were like to create like a collage of photos, what would you, what would be on Barry Conrad's wall?

Barry Conrad
Oh, wow. Well, I feel like different.

The answer to that is different rooms would have different situations. So one would have more of a family type collage. The other one would have more of a work type collage. So like posters of shows I've done, things like that, or photos with people I've worked with. And then another one would be from like travel, I think like travel or travel collage of my favorite places.

Melanie Avalon
Nice!

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what would you do?

Melanie Avalon
I was thinking about it. There's so many things I want to do. What I really like is they have an option. So my walls are all white and I actually don't have... So on my walls, I'm looking around right now, I don't really have many things on my walls. A huge reason is because I don't want to deal with like the nails and like putting it up and all of that. So this is perfect for me.

But I do have on one of my walls, it's like a big white wall and all I have is this one white frame with like a quote. So it kind of like blends into the wall and they have an option where it's like all white. So I think I kind of want to do that where it's like, I would do like black and white photos, I think capturing like some moments from my life, some you know, treasured moments from my life and have like the white frame so it kind of like blends into the wall. That's what I'm envisioning.

That's what I think I'm going to do.

Barry Conrad
That sounds awesome actually, like just nice and clean, minimal, but still artistic.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, here's the thing, we just booked them right now. So I actually don't have the information yet about what the like offer is, but there should be an offer. And I'm assuming the code is going to be if podcast. So we'll put it in the show notes.

But the website for them is mix tiles.com. So friends, just go to mix tiles.com slash if podcast, because if we don't end up using the link, that'll still go to the website anyways. And then the code will probably be if podcast. But I think this is super cool. Like this is what I needed for a long time in my life.

Barry Conrad
No, this is awesome. This is such a good find, such a good sponsor, new sponsor that we have on board and like, it's something that we both 100% use and love.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. I'm obsessed with like aesthetics and like surrounding yourself with memories and moments and like cultivating the environment that you live in to make you feel, you know, to like spark good feelings. So

Barry Conrad
I 500% agree with that, I'm all about that, 100%.

Melanie Avalon
So mix tiles!

Barry Conrad
This looks awesome looking at it now on the website looks so good. I'm very I'm very sentimental in that way like you know memories and nostalgia and things like that so.

Melanie Avalon
Me too. I really am. And I also love appreciating, like I just love like the little moments, you know, of life. Like it's the little things. Life is good.

Barry Conrad
Life gets busy too, so it's like you want to be able to capture those moments and look back and remember, oh, you know what, look at how far we've come and look at what I've experienced and gratitude. It's important.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. And gratitude is very good for longevity. There are studies on that. We love that. All right. Shall we answer one more question?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. So, Nicole from Facebook asks, what are your thoughts about L-carnitine? Am I saying that right? Yes.

What are your thoughts about L-carnitine? I just purchased one month of Farmacy's Nutriplus L-carnitine shots. They supposedly produce great results, but I know it'll break my fast if I take it in the morning. I usually do OMAD, which is dinner. Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
So this was crazy timing because I had this question in the lineup to talk about, and then I was finishing up my prep because this week I'm interviewing Benazzotti, who I adore Ben. Are you familiar with Ben Berry?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, but I feel like you've mentioned him before to me.

Melanie Avalon
He's so great. He runs keto camp. He's a big proponent of the ketogenic diet. He has a massive following when it comes to the whole world of keto.

And his new book is coming out. I think I might have talked about it on a recent episode, but he had a whole section on carnitine. So I'm going to, I'll tell you what he talks about it, what he says about it in his book. So basically carnitine, it's a naturally occurring amino acid derivative. And it plays a crucial role in energy production. And the way that it works is it actually helps transport long chain fatty acids, which are a type of fat. So there's like long chain, medium chain, short chain fatty acids. So it transports long chain fatty acids into the mitochondria. And we talked about the mitochondria earlier, but those are the powerhouse production part of the cells. So basically it helps fat get into your cells to be oxidized and produce energy. So it's really, really good for burning fat and supporting your metabolism. It can help reduce body fat, it can enhance exercise performance, it can increase muscle mass. And supplementation has been shown to improve fat metabolism, especially if you pair it with physical activity, it can create more weight loss from that. It's also been shown to improve heart health, help with muscle soreness and help with exercise recovery. He talks about a study in his book and he says it's one of the most comprehensive studies on L-carnitine for fat loss. And in the study, it was a 12 week study. And participants took L-carnitine supplements, supplements, along with a high carb beverage twice a day. And then they did 30 minutes of low intensity exercise like walking or jogging four days a week. And they found that those on the L-carnitine supplement burned more calories during exercise, increased their muscle carnitine levels, maintain their weight, while the other group actually gained weight and had a reduction of their calorie burning. So that suggested that L-carnitine can enhance fat metabolism and support weight loss when you combine it with the proper diet and exercise.

And then also I just mentioned Ben Greenfield, he just had a whole section on carnitine and he was talking about its benefits for the brain. So it's very protective of the brain can support brain metabolism. So it's a really great nutrient. If you want to maximize your fat burning, then taking it before exercise seems to be the way to go. However, all of that said, so the one she's talking about, so this brand is an L-carnitine shot. It has, I was not familiar with this brand, but has L-carnitine 1500 milligrams and it has green tea extract. Green tea extract does have a lot of benefits. I would not personally get this product because it's not just carnitine. So it does have the green tea extract in the B6, but it has a lot of inactive ingredients. So it has glycerin, citric acid, natural flavoring, preservatives. It has a lot of preservatives. It has potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate. It has sucralose, which is an artificial sweetener that may have health problems and it has stevia.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, no artificial flavors. Okay. So it does say that it's lactose free, no sugar, caffeine free and no artificial flavors, but it does have natural flavors. So I would personally not get this one.

I would look for a more pure version of L-carnitine. And in addition to that, you can also try acetyl L-carnitine, which might be an even more by available form. So some brands I like, for example, I like pure encapsulations. I like Thorne as brands in general, and those are going to have less fillers. Basically, I would look for other options that don't have all those ingredients. And then as for her actual question, so I gave her a lot more information than her question. Her question says she knows it'll break her fast. She does one meal a day, which is dinner. Yeah. So basically, I understand that you already bought the product. I would, I don't know, I personally, I personally would not take that product, especially with all the preservatives and things like that in it. I would look for another option.

And then like I said, if you do take it, taking it a pure form that doesn't break your fast before exercise is probably the way to go. Have you experimented with L-carnitine berry?

Barry Conrad
I haven't yet, no. But what you said about taking it before exercise, that piqued my interest a lot.

Melanie Avalon
Have you taken it? I have not, no.

I know, I'm kind of like, I'm kind of like, especially because when I read about it, I read the question and then I read about it in Ben's book and then I read about it. I'm sorry, and well, they're both Ben's. In Benazzotti's book for the fat burning and then in Ben Greenfield's book for the brain support, it does seem like a pretty great thing to experiment with. Yeah, I'm kind of intrigued. Maybe I'll order some, not at this brand, of a different brand. Maybe I'll make one. No, I'm like in entrepreneur mode.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we wouldn't put it past you making one for sure.

I mean, this is definitely based on like what you said, Mel, you're right in terms of if it has all these different additives, you know, that that would potentially will would break your fast taking in the fastest state. So just to echo what Melanie said, you're getting something more pure, you know, without the sweeteners or fillers or added flavors would be the way to go. And, you know, there's a lot of products on the market that come in liquid form with so many hidden artificial sweeteners and sugars and, you know, not flat, not was it not flavored like you can say whatever now and you could just sneak things in.

Melanie Avalon
Well, they say like they say no artificial flavor, but then it is still flavored. And it's more like the preservatives are really make me nervous and the sucralose. So it's like, it's like, why put things into your body that might, because basically, and it's like, okay, it's a small amount. Like how bad can it be?

We are inundated today with toxins, like a toxic overload that our body was not accustomed to in the past. So anywhere that you can minimize putting in potentially toxic things into your body, do that. This is what I suggest. So like, don't, I would not, I would not like consciously put something in that I know has problematic ingredients in it, because we're already dealing, like we're already getting so many toxins from our environment. Microplastics are just everywhere, endocrine receptors. So it's like just anywhere you can clean up things, I would say to do that.

Barry Conrad
I'm curious what i agree mil i'm curious as to what put on nickel on to al carden in the first place is it she doesn't mention training or. Anything like that but it's associated a lot with you know people like a fitness and fasting stuff so i'm really interested to know why she doesn't actually mentioned like what she's trying to achieve necessarily about taking it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, that's such, I was thinking that too, especially cause like I said, you know, it is big in the world of fat burning and exercise, but then also like all of these brain benefits. So yeah, I mean, I would assume it's probably for like fat burning, but who knows?

But yeah, now I'm interested. I kind of like sold myself on it. I'm like, I need to start taking it.

Barry Conrad
It's all kind of saying look that up like, you know, go to the store and ask about it.

Melanie Avalon
You can get it. There are a lot of foods high in elcarnitine. So I'll list some of those.

Hold on. I know red meat is pretty high. Let's see. It's especially high in protein food. So berry, you and I are probably getting quite a bit. So one of the richest sources is beef. Lamb is also very high, often even more than beef. Pork has a lot, slightly less than beef. And then chicken has moderate, fish has moderate, dairy has small to moderate. People are eating a lot of meat like you and I might be getting quite a bit of it.

Barry Conrad
Why have I not been more aware of this, like, Al-Qanateen?

Like, you know, it's like you think about, you know, high in zinc, high in this, high in that, you don't think, oh, high in Al-Qanateen.

Have you been?

Melanie Avalon
I've been pretty familiar. I guess I've never, the reason I haven't looked into it, I think more for a supplement is because I know I get so much of it from my diet.

But I've always thought like, Oh, like, you know, I know one of the benefits of meat is L-carnitine. But reading about it here, and it sounds like, you know, using like smartly supplementing with it might actually be a pretty cool hack. So maybe we should.

Barry Conrad
the brain health and everything.

Melanie Avalon
For brain health and for maybe increased metabolism and stuff with, because that's super cool that it helps you, that's so cool the mechanism of action that it actually helps fatty acids get into your mitochondria and then be burned. That's very cool.

Barry Conrad
So pairing that with training would be like a magic bullet in a way that actually would be awesome. You should get some. You know what? I'm actually, I'm running it down right now.

Melanie Avalon
and then let us know, let us know. Then you can report back if you see a difference.

Barry Conrad
Awesome. I've got that down as a note and check it out for real because I've started taking creatine.

Did I tell you this? Oh, really? For the first time, yeah, I've never in all the time I've been training, never ever used it. And I started using it maybe a couple of weeks ago. I started in powder form.

Melanie Avalon
Did you notice? Have you noticed anything?

Barry Conrad
Well, one thing that I definitely noticed was I'm carrying more water, which I don't love that, but that's one of the side effects that you hold on to my water so I'm like, everything's just thicker, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Do you know if you got like a really good, because I've heard that depending on the form you get that I've heard that you might not have that I know when Cynthia, our former co host had her creatine and empty logic, she said you wouldn't get that effect. Really?

Because there's there's different forms of it. Did you do a dose loading protocol? No. Well, I mean, it's good. Because then you probably would have had a lot of water retention. Yeah, I'd be I'd be curious, which we can, we can look at it later what you got.

Barry Conrad
Again, it's one of those things like is it placebo? I'm not too sure like the effects of whether it's helping with my recovery or helping fuel my workouts. But I mean, it's early days.

Let's see how we go. I went off creatine maybe last week because I had to do a shoot and I wanted to shed that water, you know, and I didn't want to take it. But I'll jump back on it and see.

But now that I'm kind of in it now, I've started. Or try. Yeah, try something else.

Melanie Avalon
or try el carnitine yeah exactly awesome well shall we have our proverbial breaking of the fast moment.

Barry Conrad
I love that that's actually what we're calling it now and it just works. I love it. Yeah, let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
I know I like slowly got there with the terminology.

Barry Conrad
I like it a lot. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
All right, so the purpose of this part of the show is to emphasize just how important the feasting part is of fasting because it's not just about the fasting. We talked about this all throughout the show but what you eat is so important and that's when you actually grow your muscle and support your metabolism and repair and it's really important and give your body all the nutrients it needs to actually live life.

So we pick a restaurant every week to profile and we talk about what we would order. So Barry is picking the restaurant. Barry, what restaurant do you have for us this week?

Barry Conrad
And i'm so excited about this restaurant now the one that i've got is a vibe if you ever been to london or if you want to go to london and step into history and have one of the best meals of your life rules restaurant is the place i just sent you the.

Melanie Avalon
one of the best meals of your life. That is a big statement.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's this place is London's oldest restaurant established way back in 1798. It's not just old. It's, it's literally iconic. It's dining here is apparently like having a seat at the table of like a British, British culinary history over 200 years of amazingness, like people like Charles Dickens, H.G. Wells, Lawrence Olivia were regulars.

So there's something pretty magical about that Mel, which I think you'd appreciate and it's all classic British cuisine, which I'm not super versed in, which excites me. So we're talking about like hearty dishes. Like, yeah, we've got to get into the menu and check it out. But also it's been, have you been here? I haven't been here, but I've heard about this place. And so when I found this during my research, I'm like, we got to go here. It's also been seen in, in like shows like Downton Abbey, James Bond. So it's, it's kind of like a real establishment to say the least. So I'm excited to, to proverbially break out fast here and go to this restaurant, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Also, Barry, I see what you're doing. You know why? Why? So I pulled up the menu and it says, we serve the traditional food of this country at its best and at affordable prices. That's great.

And then it says we specialize in classic game cookery, which I love oysters, pies and puddings. I see what you're doing. I see, don't think you can pull one over me. I know what's happening here.

Barry Conrad
You know what, there's so many restaurants, listeners that I've found and everything is awesome, awesome, awesome. Then it's like, ah, too many oysters. Next one.

Melanie Avalon
Not too many oysters, but I just think that they specialize in it.

Barry Conrad
So I thought I'd, you know, break you in even more. So Melanie, we have plenty of options there.

Melanie Avalon
We do have options. Okay, I'm excited. I'm so excited.

So starters, first thing, Carlingford Rock Oysters, surprise. Second thing, Fish Soup. Third thing, Kelly Native Oysters, surprise. Okay, so many options. Okay, I, what is,

Barry Conrad
There's stuffed mussels, there's crab.

Melanie Avalon
I'm intrigued because I feel like the UK and London is known for having bad food.

Barry Conrad
Okay, hold on, hold on, stop the program, hold on, heavy, okay, you bit-

Melanie Avalon
That's a true statement that i just made that's not like me being biased.

Barry Conrad
You feel like you... Okay, have you been to the UK? You have been to the UK. Yeah. Yes. Have you eaten there many times?

Melanie Avalon
How many times have I been? Yes. Three times. Four times? Three or four times?

Barry Conrad
partook, partaken, have you feasted on the

Melanie Avalon
I didn't eat when I was there.

Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, you know what, Melanie, I have had pretty delicious food.

Melanie Avalon
That was a joke. I did eat when I was there.

Barry Conrad
What did you think?

Melanie Avalon
First time I went with my family, we were so appalled by the food that we found this one Italian restaurant and then we just ate there every night.

Barry Conrad
that. That's funny.

Melanie Avalon
I don't have any defining memory of a good food experience in the UK.

Barry Conrad
Oh my, we need to change that. We should change that.

Melanie Avalon
But that I'm and I'm not being I'm not being rude like isn't that pretty much isn't that pretty much like what the world thinks I'm going to ask chat GPT and I'm going to ask the most non biased way. What does the world think about London food moment of truth moment of truth.

Oh, okay, London's culinary reputation has undergone a remarkable transformation evolving from long standing stereotypes to being celebrated as a global gastronomic capital. So maybe it's better now but lingering stare despite its culinary advances some outdated perceptions persist.

Apparently in France wait, let's see in France French respondents and a survey placed at last in a list of 18 countries. I guess it's gotten better though.

I'm excited. Let's go to rules.

Barry Conrad
Let's, you know what, let's go to rules and we're just getting started. So Melanie, you have your year to choose your starters.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I would like to get, please, what is escabeci, what is escabeci of

Barry Conrad
I'll look, I'll look it up and tell you now. I knew gravitate towards that cause you the quail. So, okay, what is that?

It's, it's basically, it's the name for several dishes in Spanish, French, Portuguese. So it's marinated fish, meat or vegetables. No, that can't be right. So maybe it's like a marin. I think it's marinated quail. Okay. Well, that, that sounds kind of interesting, right?

Melanie Avalon
What a rabbit. Well, the marinades make me nervous. What a rabbit roulette.

Barry Conrad
Who comes up with these names by the way?

Melanie Avalon
A French charcuterie dish. Oh, made with slow-coaked shredded meat and its own fat. That sounds good.

Barry Conrad
That sounds really good actually, not gonna lie.

Melanie Avalon
So depending on what's in it.

Barry Conrad
Have you had Rabbit before?

Melanie Avalon
So interestingly enough did we do canoe on this show? I think we did we did right?

Barry Conrad
I think we did, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
the Atlanta restaurant where they have like kangaroo and stuff.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
They have rabbit there and I really wanted it, but it was like really marinated. I actually don't think I've had rabbit.

I know it's a very lean meat. It's where the term rabbit starvation comes from.

Barry Conrad
I had it in Tenerife a couple of years ago, actually, and it was for the very first time and it was absolutely delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Did it taste like chicken?

Barry Conrad
It's kind of like a quasi, kind of like a kind of chicken slash beef fusion taste. I reckon really like really easy to eat, not in your mouth. It was really good, actually really um.

Melanie Avalon
Well, okay, so I feel like depending on how it's cooked that I want so many things. I um, the middle, the middle white pork, I think.

Barry Conrad
I was waiting for you to go there. I was waiting for you to go there straight away.

Melanie Avalon
With spiced apple chutney and sourdough toast, you can have that. I will have the pork. And also, oh my goodness.

Barry Conrad
Shrimps. You're doing the shrimps, aren't you?

Melanie Avalon
No, what are potted shrimps?

Barry Conrad
I feel like it's a maybe it's served in a pot and toast on the side, which is very British. It's very like a shrimp cocktail, but British style, maybe.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, I'm kind of like craving some ug lodge smoked salmon with or without scrambled eggs with, yes. That's my, those are my decisions.

And then whatever I like the most, I might have for dessert again. How about you?

Barry Conrad
Carlingford Rock Oysters, Kelly Native Oysters, Stuffed Mussels, Rabbit Roulettes, and the Dorset Crab, Salad of Dorset Crab, which is with brown crab mayonnaise, pink grapefruit, and sourdough toast. They do a lot of toast, but it's very British.

Melanie Avalon
I love that you got both Carlingford Rock Oysters and Kelly Native Oysters. Do you know, are those different? Do you know the difference here? Are you familiar?

Barry Conrad
I feel like because they are different, they're named differently, Melanie, and I love Oyster so much, I'm gonna just go for it.

Melanie Avalon
And you'll get two chances to try to convince me to like oysters because we have two options.

Barry Conrad
Exactly. You might like the look of one of them like, oh, those look like sparkly to quote you, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Okay. So you got two wasters, you got the mussels. Have you had mussels before? Stuffed mussels with herb butter, garlic, and bread crumbs. Yes.

Barry Conrad
Okay, to zoom out, New Zealand, when I used to live there, seafood and mussels in particular, so delicious, like so good, like of course, and South Africa as well, so I love mussels so much.

Melanie Avalon
Do you hear them? What do muscles taste like?

Barry Conrad
Are you having that we've had this conversation.

Melanie Avalon
Are they kind of like last episode, escargot? Yeah, are they, do they taste like the sea? What do they taste like? Do they taste like muscle? Like protein, like chicken?

Barry Conrad
is this like you saying the eggs were like really eggy like no

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, are they really, are they really muscly?

Barry Conrad
Okay that they're more like chewy they're not like they're not always to consistency texture that like you gotta choose who was that side that little grumble the head was that you are.

Melanie Avalon
That was, I was, I just, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't like, I just, I like kind of like firm, even though scallops are scallops are soft, but like when it comes to protein, I like, like, you know, like, I don't know. Well, I guess, I guess like a rare filet is kind of chewy.

Barry Conrad
Well, you have to chew through steak, so it's like same same, but different.

Melanie Avalon
You know they're stuffed i will if you can okay so if you can like get the muscles and then kind of like cut out a piece of the interior muscle that is not with all the other stuff no pun intended can i try that.

Barry Conrad
Yes, I actually do think, honestly, a fresh muscle pot in general, like steamed muscles, is actually one of the best things you could have. It's like, it's actually, it's such a big thing in New Zealand and Australia. It's a thing.

Melanie Avalon
We got to go somewhere that has steam muscles that that speaks to me.

Barry Conrad
It comes in like, you know, it looks like a wit, like a witch's cauldron, like a black pot, and it's, it's filled with muscles, steamed and it's so good. Really delicious.

Melanie Avalon
Have you seen, so when I think mussels, all I think of is being at the beach and like seeing mussels on the sea shore, like on the sand, like washed up.

Barry Conrad
It doesn't sound very appetizing the way you're saying it. Just washed up. Like you don't know it's not. Okay. I feel like we should move to the main cause.

Melanie Avalon
I think we got like the entire menu, except we literally got everything except the fish soup, the blood orange salad, oh the shrimp, okay, nevermind, okay, main course, their beef is sourced from British farms and aged for 28 days, I am so excited, okay, what is a, what is a venison hotpot, what's a hotpot?

Barry Conrad
We were just talking about a hot pot. To me, that means...

Melanie Avalon
I know. Is that the same thing?

Barry Conrad
for me, well, I just had a hot pot at someone's house a few weeks ago and that meant cooking it there, but I don't think that's their vibe. So I feel like, I don't know, actually, I don't, I don't, I'm not sure, a pot of venison.

I don't think that's a thing because hot pot usually means like you actually cook the meat yourself. So you dip it into the water and it's like super, yeah, that's what that is.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love doing that. Is this like a DIY, like cook your own venison? Because I'm down.

Barry Conrad
Okay, if that's that, then let's assume that's that.

Melanie Avalon
If that's it, I am like, oh, okay. If that's the case, I love that.

Like were you cooking in the water? Yeah. Oh my goodness. And since we're talking about venison, we should give a shout out to Maui Nui, our favorite venison brand. They source venison from Hawaii where the axis deer are actually overtaking the islands and it's creating a problem for the ecosystem. So they, it really helps. Like having this meat, it's super nutritious. It's really high in protein, low in fat, and it's helping deal with that overpopulation problem of the axis deer. And they do it in a very stress-free manner, a very like natural way of getting the venison. So if listeners are interested, they can go to MauiNuiVenison.com. That's M-A-U-I-N-U-I-V-E-N-I-S-O-N.com slash I have podcast to secure your access now because of like how natural it is. There is limited, like there's limited production of how they do it. So you can secure your access there and get some of our favorite cuts. So, but back to this menu. Okay, so I definitely want the venison hotpot because I love cooking the meat myself in the water because then I can just like barely cook it. It's like a whole thing. And I want two entrees. I also would like

Barry Conrad
Quite a few options, right? Like a lot, actually.

Melanie Avalon
oh wait this is fun they have a they have a roast rib of beef for two but the funny thing is like for two like i probably need double of that just for me i think i'm kind of feeling right now at this moment i kind of want the dressing ham duck breast

Barry Conrad
Okay, that sounds pretty delicious, and that's with...

Melanie Avalon
Which comes with, would you like to say it? It sounds better when you say it.

Barry Conrad
It comes with beetroot puree, roast and dive and five spice. Is it on- is it on-dive, on-dive, how do you say it? On-dive? Yeah, on-dive. Yeah, and five spice. So that sounds pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So venison and duck are what I got going on. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I have to do steak and kidney pudding as one of them with oyster.

Melanie Avalon
I love it. So if listeners go to the menu and the menu is at... Oh, we should start saying the website. I don't think we've done that ever. That's probably a problem.

So the website for this is rules.co.uk. And literally this one, say the link, we've been failing. We've been really failing there. That's embarrassing.

Sorry, guys. It says steak and kidney pudding. And then in a different font color, unlike any other of the other like sub information things which are in the same font color, this one's in a different font color. And it says with oyster. They like want you to see it.

Barry Conrad
Well, basically they're a restaurant after my heart because they get it. They get the oysters are so damn good.

So steak and kidney pudding with oyster. And I'm going to go roast pork, belly and see a diver scallop. I'm going to also get the grilled lamb chops and I'm going to go for, okay. I got to, I've got to say, I've got to say what it is. Hold on.

Melanie Avalon
Slow down cowboy, you're getting so many.

Barry Conrad
Roast pork belly and seared diver scallop comes with apple puree, poi lentils and hazelnut dressing. And the grilled lamb chops come with braised fennel, purple sprouting broccoli and olive dressing. And going to go for that roast rib of beef for two, which is with buttered greens, Yorkshire pudding, horseradish cream and red wine dew. So it's, it's a few dishes.

We need, we need like probably one of those double table or like a big table. Cause we, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I would like to emphasize for listeners if they're curious yes berry did just order for entrees one of which is for two people so i want to.

Barry Conrad
Why are you yelling at me?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I'm not yelling. I don't yell.

Barry Conrad
Their portions are pretty small, just saying.

Melanie Avalon
Here's the question. How are you getting the, okay, so preparation, staking kidney pudding. Okay. I'm not going to be present for that one.

How do you, how do you want the roast rib cooked? Anyway, you said lamb too. How do you want the lamb cooked and the rib?

Barry Conrad
The rib, medium rare, the lamb, probably on the more on the rare side.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, interesting. Whoa, I would have said the reverse. Really? That's interesting. Really? You like your lamb rarer than your beef?

Barry Conrad
Oh, the ribs, because, okay, am I imagining, is it on the bone or is it just like the rib just cut off the bone? Hold on. Roast, oh, sorry, roast rib. Okay. Okay, roast rib, of course, yeah. Give me both of them rare. That's it.

So it just melts off the knife.

Melanie Avalon
Are we gonna get any vegetables and salads?

Barry Conrad
Of course, I'm going to get potatoes with, okay, that's chips. We're not doing that. I'm going to do, no, I don't, I don't require that with my five entrees.

Melanie Avalon
Okay okay so now we're okay now we're desserts okay so that's okay i feel i feel good i feel good about this.

Barry Conrad
Same. So, Melanie was initially quite upset that there were oysters on the menu, and now she's going through, oh, there's a few options now, so it's good.

Melanie Avalon
I wasn't upset. I just know what you're doing here.

Barry Conrad
Okay, now listeners, if you've gone to the website rules.co.uk, we're going to the puddings, savories, and cheese. So Melanie, what is catching your eye?

Melanie Avalon
So this is the dessert section. So of course, I feel like when I answer this, should I answer what I would get if I ate desserts and then I'll answer what I actually am gonna get?

Yeah. I'm starting a new trend. So if I got desserts, I would get, I do like cheese and I like cream. So the triacol tart with clotted cream sounds interesting, but I will be getting a savory dessert. So I probably will have for dessert. I think for dessert, if they can bring me one of the entrees we didn't try, which is the Escalap of salmon or steamed halibut, but I think the salmon, yeah, the salmon.

Barry Conrad
Okay, that's your choice? Choices?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. Although now I'm curious. What is a roast feather blade of beef? What does that mean?

Roast feather blade? Sounds good. Do you know what that is? I don't actually. It's braised feather blade beef. What is it?

Barry Conrad
look like. Okay, I'm looking at it now. It looks...

Melanie Avalon
It's a cut of beef taken from the shoulder area. Oh, called the chuck. So it's chuck beef. Oh, okay. That makes it sound way more fancy than it is. That's misleading.

Okay, so I'm gonna get the salmon for dessert. How about you?

Barry Conrad
How about me? I'm going to get the Pear and Apple Crumble with Custard, which is 2021.

Tesoro Riccardo della Valpoli Ciela Cantina Vellapetana. Itadily. Itadily. And that's Pear and Apple Crumble with Custard. Love Crumble. I'm also going to get a Flourless Blood Orange Chocolate Cake standard with Chantilly Cream.

Melanie Avalon
Chantilly sorry, I worked at a steakhouse and we had we had Chantilly cream and it was a thing Chantilly cream

Barry Conrad
Chantilly Cream, 2022 Mary Mo Amel Rosalyn.

Melanie Avalon
So what you're reading is the wine pairing.

Barry Conrad
The wine pairing, okay, I don't know how to say that. So that, and then also, so those two, and then gotta do it in this cheese plate, because that's, I love cheese.

Melanie Avalon
I want to know what the golden syrup sponge is. So out of all the different menus, the dessert menu, I like, I don't know what it means.

Like I don't like Croppwell, Bishop, Stilton. I don't know what that means. And like Welsh where bet. I don't know what that is.

Barry Conrad
I feel like we were talking about surprises and magicians at some point. And this is a lot of surprises.

Yeah, we can just try different things. We can order a whole bunch of things and then just, you can bite, take little bites of everything if you like it.

Melanie Avalon
I'm excited. This sounds like a cool place to go. And I like that we ordered between us like 10 entrees.

Barry Conrad
They could be like, are you sure you want all that? Like, I don't think you can finish it. It's like, you don't know us, we can finish it.

Melanie Avalon
This is amazing. OK.

Barry Conrad
also, Mel, we're not done yet. Let's go to the wine menu. There's quite a few wines.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and they have a shop. You love shops. Every time you say that it's like you like, we love when they have a shop. We love merchandise.

Don't tempt me with a shop. Let me see what they have from the shop. Sorry. I got distracted by the store. I'm going to get the classic rules mug most definitely.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, that's funny.

Melanie Avalon
Yep, okay back to the the wine

Barry Conrad
There's quite a few ones there Melanie, is anything looking

Melanie Avalon
So big disclaimer, when I order wine at a restaurant, I can't just look and order something because I have my whole process. And for listeners, what that process is, is you look up the winery, you look up if it's an organic winery, which it often may be surprisingly, and then you look up the actual wine, you check the alcohol percentage, and then you look up reviews to see if it's kind of dry or not.

So what I'm picking right now, it's hard to know, because I would have to do more research. But actually, I do know, I know that the I love flurry, let me see if this is organic. I'm actually pretty familiar with a lot of these wines. Really? Yeah, because I love French wine. So I'm looking them up a lot. And these are all these all French wines.

Barry Conrad
It could actually be. I think they're all French. You should love because you love that, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, yeah, this is a good wine list for sure. Basically, this list is so amazing and there's so many options that I would need more time, but there's definitely an option here that I would love.

There's a lot of good red French wines. Nice. Yeah, how about you?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go for the Bologogni Pinot Noir.

Melanie Avalon
Nice. The Bouchard pear, it feels, I think that's organic. I think I've had that one before.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, which is different to what I normally do. But because I'm in the UK, I'm at rules.

It's quite an old institution. I'm going to stick with this one all night, just like there's lots of meat on my entrees, plural. So I'm going to just stick with the red, I reckon, for this one.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I will say I feel very, very good about the swine list. Like there's definitely a lot of options.

So before going, I would have done my research. So when we got there, I would know what I want to get. So you wouldn't have to like wait for me, but I probably, I would have done my research, I probably would have found if they're by the glass, I would have found a few that I want to taste, but if they're by the bottle, then we just have to like say a prayer that, you know, it's good. Well, thanks for finding this. How did you find it? Did you Google like the oldest restaurant in London?

Barry Conrad
No, I just I went through what just like, you know, interesting restaurants, UK, and this baby popped up.

Melanie Avalon
Well, I'm excited. I like the title too, or the name rules. What are the rules? I wonder how many times people ask them that. Like as the opening line. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
What are the rules, you know, one of the rules is to have oysters.

Melanie Avalon
Yep. So this has been super fun for listeners. We hope you enjoyed today's show.

If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, definitely email questions at ifodcast.com or you can go to ifodcast.com and you can submit questions there. The show notes will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 429. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad and we are I of podcast. And I think that's all the things. So anything from you Barry before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for tuning in again this week and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome! This was so fun! Talk to you next week! Bye!

Barry Conrad
Bye!

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Jun 30

Episode 428 – 4:3 Fasting Vs. Calorie Restriction, Should You Eat Eggs, Weight Loss Behavior Support, Low A1C With Blood Sugar Spikes & Drops, Magic Soaks, And More!

⁠⁠4:3 Intermittent Fasting Outperforms Daily Calorie Restriction in Weight-Loss Study⁠

Welcome to Episode 428 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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Featured Restaurant: ⁠Monsieur Paul⁠⁠

STUDIES:

⁠The Effect of 4:3 Intermittent Fasting on Weight Loss at 12 Months⁠

⁠Egg Consumption and Mortality: A Prospective Cohort Study of Australian Community-Dwelling Older Adults⁠

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 428 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 428 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I am doing really, really, really great today. I'm having an awesome week so far, such a feel-good week, such a fulfilled week.

I've just been in Melbourne again. I got back last night from Melbourne to work on Destiny, the play I'm doing. So that was just incredible. Just, this play is going to be so amazing and I really want everyone to see it. It's awesome. Just like diving into this character and the story, it's incredibly special. Can't say it enough. You're probably going to be sick of me talking about this play, but sorry, not sorry. I just love it so much. And I also have to say that whilst I was away, I ordered a steak almost blue in your honour.

Melanie Avalon
Did you actually use the word blue while ordering?

Barry Conrad
Mmhmm.

Melanie Avalon
And what happened?

Barry Conrad
Well, the server looked confused. She was like, huh? And then, and then she's like, oh, okay. Okay.

So like, really? Okay. And then she got it. But she, I don't think she gets a lot of people that want that. Clearly.

Melanie Avalon
Did it come out really rare or did they still cook it a bit?

Barry Conrad
It wasn't as rare as I would have liked to be honest. I feel like maybe they thought, oh, maybe this is too rare. But it's like, when you ask for something, that's what you want, you know?

Melanie Avalon
I know. Like the conversations I have, I'm like, listen, like just as uncooked as you can bring it, please. And that only works some of the time.

Barry Conrad
Oh, well. Take it out of the refrigerator or wherever you're storing it and just put it on my plate. Don't even cook it.

Melanie Avalon
I read a story online or I heard the story. I don't know if it's true, but it was about it.

It was like about a guy and what he would do is he would say, can you please bring out the stakes like for me to see it before you cook it? I don't know, to approve it. And then he would just take it. Just like that.

Barry Conrad
I can see you doing that.

Melanie Avalon
I have thought about doing this but I have not but to comment on your show okay so cuz you went for like a day right like it wasn't it one day that you went there.

Barry Conrad
I pulled a melon in eveline like just a day travel so i was there i was there for two days but i it was a day full day of work and it was like a to paint a picture it's like picture like a table read but it's the latest draft of the script so scripts been reworked and we just got to. Introducing new character which is really exciting as well so it's just incredible really really really fulfilling.

Melanie Avalon
Was it the first time the whole cast being together?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, the new cast first time. So that was super exciting. All the fields. Yeah, sparks in the room.

Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. I'm so happy for you. That's so exciting. So friends, if you're in Australia, one of the dates again.

Barry Conrad
If in Australia come in August, yeah, we'll have the links. We'll have the links in the show notes.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, man, that's amazing. What are you most so out of the entire play and your role in it? Like, is there like a moment that is your favorite or really intense or

Barry Conrad
There's a lot of intense moments in this play. It's, it's not, there's definitely a lot of liberty in it, but it's, it's very confronting, powerful, there's devastation, a heartbreak.

In terms of favorite moments, there's a couple really intense ones that are like, but I think, I feel like you'd like the moment between me and my love interest at the end. It's very like romantic and heartbreaking. It's like, oh yeah, it's where you can't be together, but yeah, I can't, I can't give it away. Where you want to be together and you can be together, but who knows if you can, who knows?

Melanie Avalon
Who knows? I don't know. Do you know? I don't.

Barry Conrad
I don't know what I've been talking about. Anyway, how are you, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
That's amazing. I'm so happy. I'm proud of you.

I am good. I, today, this will be way in the past by the time this comes out, but next week is when I'm going to Vegas to record with Dave Asprey for his new book, Heavily Meditated, I think. We were going to stay by the studio that we're recording at. My sister's going with me. And so we were going to stay there and just kind of like, you know, go and like do the recording and be done. And then literally all last night. So like before going to bed, I was thinking about it. And I was like, I'm going to Vegas. And it's, I mean, it's sparkly recording with Dave, but like the rest isn't sparkly. Like, you know, what am I doing? Like, I mean, so and then I had nightmares all night of like a lackluster Vegas trip. So I woke up and I changed all of that. And now it is sparkly.

Barry Conrad
So what? Tell me what you mean.

Melanie Avalon
So I changed our hotel from the residence inn and this like, you know, part of town kind of away from the strip to the MGM signature grand on the strip.

And I got front row tickets to see David Copperfield, the world's, do you know, did you know he's the world's most commercially successful magician of all time?

Barry Conrad
I'm actually not surprised by that. I know he's like an OG OG for real.

Melanie Avalon
So now it's going to be a sparkly trip. It was already sparkly, but now it's going to be really, really sparkly. Do you like magic shows?

Barry Conrad
You know what? I've actually... I don't actually think I've been to one, but I would actually love to go to one. For real.

Melanie Avalon
You would love it, I think, because it's like a play, but real life, I don't know. I think magic is so, I think magic is so fascinating because it's like seeing things, it like bends your reality, you know? It's confusing and complex.

I love it.

Barry Conrad
Redirection and sleight of hand and sleight of the limbs you know people disappearing reappearing all kinds of stuff right.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I've been cut in half before huh, you know, like the most famous, you know, like the cliche like where they put the person in the box and cut them in half. Yeah, I've done that. Have you?

Barry Conrad
Do you have video footage of this moment? You need to show me.

Melanie Avalon
No, because it was at the Magic Castle where there's no photography allowed. Do you know about the Magic Castle? Have we talked about this?

Barry Conrad
I don't think we've talked about it, but I know about the Magic Castle for sure.

Melanie Avalon
It's like my favorite place after Disney World. It's okay. So when you're back in the US, we're going to go to LA and we're going to go to the match castle, okay? And we can't take selfies.

Barry Conrad
We can't.

Melanie Avalon
Uh-uh. We can't outside, though.

Okay. Outside, like, the parking lot? Like, they have, like, a, you know, like, a step, you know, like, a backdrop that you can take pictures in front of, type thing. But the funny story about the cutting in half was, because the Magic Castle for listeners, it's this old mansion that they turned into a magic wonderland, and there's all these rooms, and there's magic shows going on all night, and there's bars, and it was designed in part by Disney Imagineers, so it's, the theming is on point, and it's just the most magical place. And you can just drink, you know? So, when I got cut in half, I had a lot of drinks in me, and, yeah, it was like, I don't know what's happening. Like, I was...

Barry Conrad
Yeah, when I got cut it up, like I just.

Melanie Avalon
I was in the audience and then I was on stage.

Barry Conrad
I like it just casually just, when I just got cut, I didn't know it was happening, it's so funny. Did Danny go with you? Did Danny see that? Who saw that?

Melanie Avalon
Danielle has been I've been there so many times Danielle has been with me. I don't think she was with me though that night No, I think that's when I was dating a magician. So I think it was with him

Barry Conrad
You were dating a magician? A magician. Wow. How was that? Full of surprises? It was fun.

Melanie Avalon
So many surprises, yeah. It was kind of like a rapid fire education in the world of magic. Like I quickly became friends with like all these magicians and was like at the magic castle every weekend. That's kind of cool though.

It's different. It was fun. I highly recommend it. You should date a magician.

Barry Conrad
Do they act like what's this stick like off when they're not on stage doing the thing of this still quite like you know fest of an end to all that other pretty chill.

Melanie Avalon
It's so funny because I literally have so many magician friends now because of that experience. It's all different.

So like the magician I dated, he would always be like, maybe it's real. I don't know. But then I have another really, really good magic friend. Actually, Steve Valentine, I've had him on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast, and he'll always just be like, that's not real.

Barry Conrad
That's a levitating thing, though. I don't I still some of the stuff on the street, like the street magic. I don't know how you can explain. Like, it's pretty crazy. You got to admit, right?

Melanie Avalon
It's really crazy. And I will say, since I was so immersed in it intensely for like a year and a half, you see there's like certain types of tricks and you start like noticing which ones are, you know, like you see a lot of the same stuff is just like slightly different.

But some of the stuff. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
I could picture you being a magician.

Melanie Avalon
Well, when I'm little, I did have my magic show phase. Like, I want to be a magician phase. Did you really? Yeah, did you? You know what?

Barry Conrad
I was not maybe not the magician one but maybe like superhero like i thought i was a superhero for real i had powers.

Melanie Avalon
And you have like an outfit.

Barry Conrad
Well, I used to dress up like the, you know, the Ninja Turtles used to do that. And then also I went into the street.

I remember this vividly because the Ninja Turtles, they go down those, you know, the sword things in the street. Those, what do you call them?

Melanie Avalon
the signing sewers, right?

Barry Conrad
You know, those are the street things you lifted up and you can go underground.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, a p- a p- a porthole.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I go to the street and I yell down, are you down there?

Cause one of them is like, their name is a Michael Angelo Raphael. And it'll be like, Raphael, are you down there? It's like in my own world. I think he was a Ninja turtle.

Melanie Avalon
Well then if there's Barry, he thinks he's a Ninja Turtle again.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. And do you have the like, there's a shell that you could buy and like put on your bag or your back like a backpack.

Melanie Avalon
the whole thing. Wow. Yeah. We would have been friends.

You could have been into turtle. I was the magician. I had like the entire like magic set and I would like, I had so many magic tricks and I would set up like a stage and like do a show for my family and friends. But then I would give up after like a trick. I couldn't handle, I couldn't handle people being like, that's, I know how you did it. Or like, well, you know, I couldn't handle it. I was like, I'm done. I can't do this. I've not cut out for this.

Barry Conrad
What was your bet? Do you remember what your like your go-to trick was?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, I hundred percent. Yes.

Here's some magic 101 when it comes to card tricks A lot of tricks are not using a normal deck of cards So I had a trick deck of cards that it could really only do one trick but that trick it could do man It nailed it every time

Barry Conrad
But when I'm in America, you're going to have to, if you still have that deck of cards.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I do so, I probably do. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna go find it. I'm gonna pull it out. Yeah, I can do that. And we can go to a magic show.

Barry Conrad
I'd actually really like that. I think that'd be good. That'd be fun. So fun.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so on that note, should we jump into some fasting-related things?

Barry Conrad
I think we should. And so this week I brought a study and it's called intermittent fasting 4-3 outperforms daily calorie restriction in weight loss.

So this is kind of unusual because I don't know, I don't really come across 4-3 that often, do you? Like we don't hear about it that much.

Melanie Avalon
eating four days a week and fasting three days or fasting four days, eating three days.

Barry Conrad
So basically what they're saying it's not eating consecutive four days in a row and then fasting three days it's more like mixing it up kind of like ADF in that way so four days are like between four and seven hundred calories max and then three days is like oh sorry four days of eating as per three days is four to seven hundred calories max of calories so that's the the situation and it can't be consecutive so that's how that works.

Melanie Avalon
It's sort of like ADF or it is a form of alternate day fasting.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I would say that, except that they do say, cause when I've done ADF, which is maybe I've tried it a couple of times, I don't really stick to the 500 on the dot calories. Like maybe it's maybe 700.

I don't know. What, what are your thoughts on that too? Do you think people need to stick to the 500 hard or nothing, or do you think it just depends like on the person?

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's interesting because you also can eat nothing if you want, you know, on those days. So they can be completely facet days or you can have like 500 calories.

I guess I would say that because the majority of the studies, I think, look at it where they are looking at it with that 500 calorie, you know, amount, it's hard to know like how much of the actual studies would apply to a higher calorie amount. The other thing, though, that's crazy is a lot of times it'll just say, like you said, just now, like, it'll be a calorie thing. But if you were to eat 500 calories of like just fat on those days, for example, you would stay, you know, in a ketogenic state compared if you had, you know, 500 calories of protein, you know, you would definitely get kicked out, but that might be good for your muscle. And then if you had 500 calories of carbs, like the I think the metabolic effects of those 500 calories are pretty important as well. So there's just a lot of factors.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I agree. And so when I saw this, I was curious about that because it definitely says here four to seven between four and 700 calories anyway.

Melanie Avalon
What was it called again, the study?

Barry Conrad
So it's called 4-3 intermittent fasting outperforms daily calorie restriction in weight loss. So I'll send you the link so you can check it out.

Melanie Avalon
It's referencing or it's talking about a study that's called the effect of four, three intermittent fasting on weight loss at 12 months. Very recent April 1st, 2025. Wow. Yeah. One of the

Barry Conrad
same one. So, the researchers, they had 165 people aged between 18 and 60, and all these people were classified as obese or overweight. So, the individuals, they were assigned to two groups. So, one group is, as we know, the 4-3 group, and the other one was just daily calorie restriction group. But those people reduced their daily calories by approximately 34% consistently throughout the week.

So, they did reduce their calories, but like the same, and then the 4-3 did 4-3. And so, after 12 months, yeah, you're right, Mel, same study, after 12 months, the 4-3 group lost an average of 7.6% of their body weight compared to 5% in the daily calorie restriction group. And that is a noticeable difference considering they're both, they're sort of like both designed to have the same total weekly caloric deficit, but the intermittent fasting groups, they stuck to the plan better. And I reckon, maybe because of the flexibility, what do you think about that? Because if they're saying 4-700 calories, and you can change your days up, maybe that adherence was stronger because of their flexibility rather than just sticking to cutting your calories. What do you think, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
for the calorie restriction group, they were reduced like every single day, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, consistently throughout the week.

Melanie Avalon
to make it equal the other group where they were eating normally on some days but then you know very low calorie on three days.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly.

Melanie Avalon
I really like this. And I think something that we see very consistently with calorie restriction is that it does have all of these benefits. And at the same time, long term calorie restriction, like calorie restriction every single day is really hard for people. You're always hungry, you don't get used to it. It's not, it's just not easy to do.

And so doing it for how long did you say this is for 12 months, like 12 months. So an entire year of being calorie restricted is not easy compared to fasting in an alternate day form. So in this 4-3 manner, you get to eat normally, you know, over half of the week. And so then you're only calorie restricting on, you know, a couple of days and you're getting the benefits of weight loss, you're getting the enhanced metabolic flexibility from the fasting. I think it totally makes sense that there's a lot of studies on fasting and they pretty consistently show that people adhere to it really well. Especially compared to calorie restriction.

Barry Conrad
They say here as well that they found that 58% of the 4-3 group hit that 5% weight loss goal, which has those health improvements like blood pressure, glucose control, reduced chronic disease risk. In the daily restriction group, that's only 47% hit that same milestone.

So again, speaking to that end, the 4-3 group saw bigger improvements in systolic blood pressure, cholesterol, fasting glucose, and HbA1c, which is for people who don't know what that is. It's glycated hemoglobin. So it's basically like a lab test that shows your average blood glucose over like two to three months, but they were secondary outcomes. So they do need more data to confirm that, but still pretty telling, I reckon. And they measured the calorie intake using doubly labeled water, which I actually didn't know much about until going to the study, which is like the gold standard of like metabolic tool and found that the 4-3 group ended up with a bigger overall calorie deficit just because they're stuck to it. And the dropout rates were lower, 90% in the 4-3 group, 30% in the daily calorie restriction, which actually makes sense because who wants to do that for a year, 12 months of cutting calories?

Melanie Avalon
You know, that's a long time. I just love it.

And I feel like people who have not fasted before, like if people haven't done fasting before, and let's say, for example, they haven't done calorie restriction before either. They both sound difficult to do. And it's just so interesting to me, like my experience, so many people's experiences, and then what the studies often show is just how, how easy and effortless the fasting can become. And like how, how much easier it is to adhere to it.

Barry Conrad
I still think that there's a big debate around, well, when you say I do intermittent fasting and some people are just like, oh, so you're just cutting calories, you're just not eating, and it is different. How do you find when people bring that up, Mel?

Because I'm sure that you hear that a lot too, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and that's when I just go into the laundry list of things. So it's not slowing down your metabolism because you're having those feast days. You're having your normal eating days, so you're not metabolically adapting to a lower calorie rate. It allows you to have really ample, especially if you're having protein and ample stimulation of supporting your muscle growth and supporting muscle maintenance that you're not really going to get when you're constantly in a catabolic state with calorie restriction.

You don't have to actually calorie restrict. There are studies showing where people don't end up actually calorie restricting and they still have these benefits. So there's just so many, so many differences. I don't think they're, it's annoying to me that they are put in the exact same camp. And I think there are different pathways activated by them that are similar. There's probably overlapping pathways and different pathways though.

Barry Conrad
I agree. And I always tell, I tell people this all the time and they don't believe me.

I actually really believe and know that I eat, I eat more on the daily intermittent fasting than I do, that I did when I just ate throughout the day.

Melanie Avalon
You think you do?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, my, my food choices were different back in the day, perhaps. And, but I, like the amount of calories, if you want to count calories that I eat now, like, you know, Kate, like cages of meat, like lots of food, like a lot, a lot of food, you know, so I, it's not just calories and calories out.

And I think that needs to be revisited as well. That's why I think it's, yeah, you're right. You can't just be put in the same camp.

Melanie Avalon
It's funny because I went to see my doctor, I think last week or the week before, and he was asking me about my eating habits and I don't think people believe me. I don't think they understand when I say I eat a lot of protein that like I eat a lot. I don't think people understand how much I'm eating. It's a lot.

It's like pounds and pounds of meat and fish and stuff. He did believe me though. He was like, how do you eat that much and you know, stay so thin? And I was like, well, I didn't give him the whole monologue, but the fasting is what lets you do that.

Barry Conrad
Also, like your food choices, you're so dialed in with, you're very particular with what you'll have. It's not like you're just eating everything. So I think food choices do absolutely do meta, you know?

Melanie Avalon
completely. I think that's one of the other misconceptions. So there's so many misconceptions and that's definitely a big one because people think you can do fasting and just eat whatever you want, which if you go from eating whatever you want to eating whatever you want with fasting, you're probably going to see benefits. You might not see all the benefits you want.

You might not actually lose weight. There is a big piece that comes into play with the food choices, making smart food choices.

Barry Conrad
Going back to the study, I'm really curious as to why they chose the 4-3 protocol rather than like a 16-8, like a more general, the 4-3 is just like not what I would expect them to go to for the, you know, to jump to for the study. I wonder why they chose that. It doesn't say in the study, so I don't know why they went with that.

Melanie Avalon
It says no studies have compared intermittent fasting versus daily calorie restriction when both interventions are provided in the context of a guidelines-based behavioral weight loss program. Okay, so that doesn't explain why they picked ADF. I guess what they were saying is unique about this study is, presumably, I'm guessing the participants were, you know, given a lot of guidance about their choices. Oh, they were recommended to increase moderate physical activity, they had group-based behavioral support, and they were in a high-intensity comprehensive behavioral weight loss program. So that's really important because that can be, you know, a key for having people be successful.

So basically, both groups were really set up for success with all the resources and support they needed. So it's even more telling that, you know, fasting was more effective and easier to stick to than the other one.

Barry Conrad
Which is so great, and I think it is well like having those controlled variables as controlled as they could get it makes it yeah makes it even more impressive you're right awesome.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome! Well, thanks for finding!

Barry Conrad
Of course. I love these studies, by the way.

It's like, because also science continues to evolve. So it's, you relearn and then learn something new or, you know, be open to changing your mind. I love it.

Melanie Avalon
I do too, so we will put a link to that in the show notes. All right, shall we get into some questions for today?

Barry Conrad
Let's answer some of these questions from our listeners. Our first question is from Judy and she says intermittent fasting and insulin resistance exclamation mark. I am using the CGM and getting crazy spikes and drops. My A1C is 4.7. So I am in capital letters. So confused. Melanie, what are your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
All right, Judy, thank you for the question. And I'm glad, Barry, that you talked about A1c earlier because here it is again. So A1c, like Barry was saying, it looks at your blood sugar levels over a couple months. It looks at your hemoglobin cells and whether or not they're glycated, which is sugars attaching to your red blood cells. And it's a marker over time because rather than blood sugar levels, which change constantly and are very transient, this shows you a picture over a couple months.

So a few thoughts here. One, you can have a misleadingly low A1c or misleadingly high A1c for different reasons. So the most common reason it would be low even with higher blood sugar levels is something like anemia. So if your blood cells have a faster turnover rate from something like anemia, then they might be dying faster than is enough time to allow more blood sugar to build up. So I'm not saying that that's what you have. I'm just saying that can happen. On the flip side, for example, people can have like higher A1cs if their blood cells are living a lot longer. So I haven't actually looked into research on this, but this is what a lot of people in like the low carb world or keto world will say. They'll say that their blood cells are living longer. So that's why it's a higher A1c. In any case, what I think, Judy, what you should look at here, so you're using a CGM. I'm assuming, I'm hoping you're using one that's partnered with a program that interprets it for you. Because if you're just doing a CGM on your own and seeing these spikes and drops and being confused, that's hard to analyze and interpret that data. So if you're working with a company, like if you got your CGM through Nutrisense, which we love, and you can go to nutrisense.io slash ifodcast, and you can use the code ifodcast, that should save you, I think, $30 and get you one free month of nutritionist support. This is something where that would be really helpful because you can actually talk to somebody who can look at your data and analyze it better for you.

Well, A, the app will help you analyze it. And then B, you can talk with a nutritionist for support. It's so helpful. So something like that would really help, I think, get to the bottom of your question, Judy. But what you'll see in an app like that is it's going to show you your spikes and your drops. It's also going to show you your average blood sugar over time, which that number is the number that's going to be correlating more to the A1c. So I would be curious, basically, you're getting these spikes and drops. It might be that when you eat and everything, you spike a lot and then you drop, but that your fasting blood sugar is just low. So it might be that you are not having constantly high blood sugar, you're just having spikes and drops, which we also don't want. You know, it's hard to know because all I see is crazy spikes and drops. I don't know actually what that's looking like. But basically, it's okay to have spikes and drops around what you're eating, especially if you have like a high carb diet.

Melanie Avalon
It's very normal that you would have a spike and then it goes down. Ideally, it goes down sooner rather than later. One of the big problems comes in when it doesn't go down or it goes down really slow and then it kind of stays high. That's what's going to lead to like a higher A1c.

I would suggest Judy listening to some of the interviews we've had with Kara Collier. She's one of the founders of Nutrisense. So we'll put links in the show to the episodes we've had with her because she answers a lot of questions. But I think basically, assuming your A1c isn't artificially low from something like anemia, I'm guessing that overall your average blood sugar is low even though you're getting spikes and drops.

Those are my thoughts. What are your thoughts, Barry?

Barry Conrad
I think Melanie you summed it up perfectly, nothing to add to that, I thought that was great.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. With these spikes and drops, again, it's hard to know exactly what type they are. That would be something definitely to work on. So, you know, what are you eating so that you can have better insulin control or insulin release? Like, I'm wondering if with the drops, do you get hypoglycemia symptoms? Like, do you, you know, get ravenously hungry? Like, what is your experience of those spikes and drops? But, you know, you could, if you're eating a more processed diet, you could try eating more whole foods diet, you could try a low carb diet, see what that does. There's like a lot you can play with. But yeah, I think you just need more data.

All right, shall we go on to our next question? Let's do it. So, our next question comes from Damon. And shout out to Damon. He is a moderator of my Facebook group, I have biohackers. So, everybody join that group and everybody say hi to Damon because he's awesome. He's literally, he's been a listener for, I don't know, a long time. And he's a really wonderful human. So, I appreciate you, Damon. So, his question is, what is the latest on eggs? In the last few years, they were good, then bad, then just eat the whites. So, eggs.

Barry Conrad
eggs and also to echo you Mel hey Damon because I recognize him from the Facebook thanks so much for your support and appreciate you being part of the community showing up and thank you for your question but the question about the eggs

Melanie Avalon
actually really quickly, Barry, he literally this week, like yesterday, I think, cause he'll send me emails, literally sent an email saying how much he enjoys you on the show, yesterday.

Barry Conrad
Really? That's really kind. Seriously, I really appreciate that because, you know, coming in as a, like, I feel great, but coming in as a co-host, following such amazing co-hosts in the past, it's, you know, you want to hope that you do a great job. And so that's very encouraging.

So thank you so much, man. So this question about the eggs, it's a good one because, well, I eat a lot of eggs. Melanie knows. I'm pretty sure. This is so true. Didn't I say that I had like 10 eggs last time on the phone?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Barry will eat like a dozen eggs while we're on the phone and he eats them and like whilst he eats them and like how how fast like

Barry Conrad
minutes.

Melanie Avalon
He'll be like, guess what, I just ate 10 eggs.

Barry Conrad
The Ida is, and you're like, what, right now on the moon? And I'm like, is this annoying, Mel? It's like, no, I love it.

Melanie Avalon
And the thing is though, I could eat 10 eggs as well, fast, I think. You reckon? Oh, yes. I used to, I went through an egg phase.

Have you had, have you had alternative types of eggs like turkey or quail?

Barry Conrad
I've tried quail eggs, but I don't know if I love them. No. I've had goose. How does that taste?

Melanie Avalon
I tasted just like a really, really big egg.

Barry Conrad
That sounds good to me. I'd like that because I go to the grocery store. You know, there's a shortage of eggs everywhere.

Melanie Avalon
And is that happening to you guys too?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I have to try to find the biggest ones because you want to get the most protein for your buck, right? Like per egg, that's my thing.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you should check them out.

Barry Conrad
Okay, maybe I should write that down.

Melanie Avalon
Have you had an ostrich egg?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I have actually. No, you haven't. In South Africa. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. Aren't those like the size of your head? Aren't they massive? Did I make that up?

Barry Conrad
No, they're massive. And you can also buy, this is so weird because it's like such a throwback, but you can buy the shell. It's like a thing, like a souvenir.

Buy an ostrich egg in South Africa. And I've had ostrich pie. It's pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
ostrich pie. Oh, I found a picture that compares eggs from seven different birds. Oh, wow. What is that egg? What is the green one?

Barry Conrad
Emu. An emu egg. I have not tried that just yet. Ostrich is a master.

Melanie Avalon
though oh my goodness here's a video the yolk in the ostrich egg it's like the Sun

Barry Conrad
It's massive. This is the first thing.

Melanie Avalon
What does it taste like? Like a normal egg?

Barry Conrad
To be honest, I can't really remember how it tastes because it's so long ago, but I can taste the pot, like I remember the taste of the pie and that was delicious. So good.

Melanie Avalon
Did you know ostriches are one of the most unintelligent birds?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I do know that they're not smart. Do you know what would you ever jump? Would you ever ride on an ostrich? Is it indoors? It's no it's it's outside like a pen

Melanie Avalon
You know, I'm saying I would, can we have like an indoor ostrich writing thing?

Barry Conrad
You weren't like get taken away into the woods or anything like it's controlled like this fences around.

Melanie Avalon
This is a thing, they saddle them up, saddle them up.

Barry Conrad
In South Africa, it's a thing, you go to different farms.

Melanie Avalon
You get on the ostrich, does the ostrich like that?

Barry Conrad
And they just run like crazy, like aimlessly.

Melanie Avalon
Are the ostriches upset that they have a human on them?

Barry Conrad
I feel like when I was a kid, I wasn't thinking about that. But now thinking back, I'm sure they didn't love it, you know, it's like.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I just Googled ostrich writing. Whoa. Wow, that sounds like an experience.

Barry Conrad
AKA what she's really saying is an experience I don't want, I would not like to participate in. Imagine you and your ball gown on an ostrich. Oh my gosh.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you know, birds are dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are not extinct.

Barry Conrad
I think I heard this on the MindLearn Podcast, am I right?

Melanie Avalon
My Mom Podcasts, yeah.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, there we go.

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, there's a picture of a woman writing an ostrich in like the 1940s or something. Wow, it goes way back and she is wearing a lot of clothing, like a get up.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I misspoke between 1907 to 1917.

Barry Conrad
I feel like it's a sign though that maybe you should try it. You can wear all your outfits and you can still give it a go.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'll add that to the to do list of things I will not do. So maybe if the opportunity arises.

Barry Conrad
Okay, Damon, sorry, we're getting our track for you here, man. So about eggs, I'm very excited about them as we both are. First they were good, first then they were bad, and it was just the whites. And it's very confusing, all the studies and the different myths out there.

But now they're swinging back in, in our favor, which is great. And it's such a good reminder again. And we talked about this before. I said before that, you know, science is always evolving. It's not static. So medicine has got involved with it and the research and everything. So that's good. What we know today is based on more data, better tools, much deeper understanding. Let's see what the science is. So a new study, January, 2025 in nutrients, led by researchers at Monash University in Australia, here in Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Ah, shout out.

Barry Conrad
Shout out, looked at 8,756 people, age 70 and over, all part of the Asprey, not Dave Asprey but Asprey, it's Asprey longitudinal study and they tracked how often these older adults ate eggs and the results are pretty crazy. So those who ate eggs one to six times a week, and this isn't one to six eggs a week, it's one to six times a week, had a 15% lower risk of dying from any cause and 29% lower risk of dying from cardiovascular disease compared to those who rarely or never ate eggs.

That's pretty amazing. And so even with the people with high cholesterol, they saw benefits too. So the participants with clinically diagnosed dyspedemia, eating eggs weekly was associated with a 27% lower risk of CVD related death. So that challenges a lot of outdated ideas that eggs are just bad or you're going to have super high cholesterol when in fact part of a moderate to high quality diet, eggs based on this might actually improve longevity, I reckon. I mean, Melanie, as we said before, I eat a lot of eggs, she eats a lot of eggs, yolks and all. And not just the taste, but like what they give me, it's high protein, B vitamins, fat soluble vitamins like AD, EK, nutrient dense, super, well, not as affordable now, but usually affordable and they keep me feeling energized and they're really, really versatile. And for older adults, which this study does focus on, that, Damon, that accessibility and nutrient density really does matter because the research shows eggs are actually the preferred source of protein for a lot of older people as they age, especially as appetite and sensory factors change. So they're easy to eat.

And so Damon, to swing this home for you, if you're eating eggs on the reg like me and you've got no specific medical reason not to, you know, you're not just good, you might be doing your heart and your overall health a real favor. So no need to skip those yolks, no need to skip the eggs. Science has come a long way from eggs are evil. So, yeah, appreciate the question. Melanie, what do you have to say about these eggs?

Melanie Avalon
Well, first of all, thank you for finding that study. That's super, super cool.

Yeah, so I agree with everything you said. So basically, I have a few big thoughts here. One, if you think about, they often call it this in the paleo world or, I don't know, the world I live in, they'll call eggs nature's multivitamin because kind of like what Barry was saying, there are so many nutrients, especially in an egg yolk. Because basically, if you think about it, it has all the nutrients needed to support a chicken. So it's basically just super concentrated nutrients in a really easily digestible form. In particular, it's really high in choline, which is a nutrient that can be pretty hard for people to get in their diet and is so, so important, especially for things like our brain health, like we really need choline and egg yolks are a great source of that. It also has like zeaxanthin, which is an antioxidant, and lutein, and then the egg whites, assuming you're not intolerant to them, are a really great source of protein as well. And the reason eggs were demonized for so long is because it all goes back to this guy named Ansel Keyes. He created the whole diet heart hypothesis, which basically said that saturated fat intake correlated or led to heart disease. And from that whole world came this idea that he basically shined a light on the role of cholesterol in our arteries being a problem for heart disease. This idea came about that dietary cholesterol became cholesterol in our bodies. And that is just not the case, but that's what was said for so long. Eggs are a rich source of cholesterol. So it was like, don't eat eggs because they have cholesterol and the cholesterol is gonna build up in your arteries. But now we now know that's not the case. So very tiny, tiny amounts of dietary cholesterol become cholesterol in your body. The majority of the cholesterol in your body, your body creates. It's not getting it from the diet. And that's why now the official recommendations, at least in the US, say that cholesterol is not a nutrient of concern. Like they literally use that phrase because dietary cholesterol, because the data just doesn't support that dietary cholesterol becomes, automatically becomes cholesterol in your body. So now that we have that realization, and there was also a lot of politics involved, like sponsor funding and things like that. In any case, now we know that's not the case. Eggs are super high in nutrients. Like we were saying, yeah, so I say have the eggs. Have the eggs.

Barry Conrad
I will, probably after the show. I know. So, uh, yeah.

And Damon, let us know in the Facebook group how you, what's your preferred way of having your eggs? You like your, you know, fried, poached, so I like soft boiled personally and poached. That's my favorite.

Go to. What about you, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love this conversation. So I ain't used to, did you like eggs currently? Did you always like eggs? What's your history with

Barry Conrad
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Melanie Avalon
I did not. I didn't like them when I was little. How? I don't know, because they were, like, eggy.

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, this is another thing where Melanie's like, I don't like that. See if you, cause it's really fishy. Like it's meant to be anyway, continue.

Melanie Avalon
But then when I started liking them, that's when I realized, oh, there are so many ways to eat eggs. So my favorite, wait, you said what you like, wait, which ways?

Barry Conrad
Well, my preferred is poached and soft-boiled, but sometimes like sunny side up, like that yolk breaking. Oh man. So good.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so Sunnyside I get them confused. So what's over? Okay, Sunnyside up versus over easy So Sunnyside up is that we're like the Eggo goes on top and it's like runny

Barry Conrad
Exactly. So like untouched, like it looks perfect, that sunny side up.

Melanie Avalon
And then it breaks and goes everywhere, like you said. Yeah, that's my favorite. And then over easy, is that the same thing just flipped over?

Barry Conrad
I think so, yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I like sunny side up for sure. I'm having a memory. Can I just share it really quickly? Of course. Did they have did you growing up, did you do Easter egg hunting?

Barry Conrad
Yes, definitely.

Melanie Avalon
So I remember when I was in preschool, we had an Easter egg hunt and they were real eggs. They were, oh, oh, that's what happened. We, um, we dyed the eggs. Did you do egg dyeing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, we did. Like, we painted them, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, did you ever do that? Okay. I don't know what we did. Regardless, we had some eggs and they were dyed and I think there was Easter egg hunting.

I don't know. Things are overlapping in my head, but I had one and I was so excited because I thought we got to keep it because we, I guess we colored it or whatever. And I thought it was a real egg. I mean, it was a real egg. I didn't realize it was hard boiled. I thought it was like a normal egg. And I was so excited to like go home and like play with it and like break it open, you know, because you can't normally like do that as a kid. Like your, you know, your parents wouldn't want you just like breaking eggs. And so I remember I had the egg and I took it home and I went to my like secret place in the yard and then I tried to break it open and it was hard boiled and I was so sad. The end.

Barry Conrad
Because you wanted it to work go it like you want the egg to break.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I went to like have like a sticky like gooey experience like I get to break an egg on a rock.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, oh, that's an anti-climax. That sucks.

Melanie Avalon
You have those memories that are just so random and specific.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I could tell that this really has really affected you.

Melanie Avalon
I know. I don't know if I ever, like, had the moment of, like, playing with an egg on a rock. Like, maybe I should go do that.

Barry Conrad
So hold on, can you say again, you did an egg diet for like a year? Is that what you said?

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, we just did it that day.

Barry Conrad
Look at egg phase.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, this was like probably for Easter. So at preschool, we probably like dyed eggs that day. And then they let us take it home.

Barry Conrad
But then later like as an adult, didn't you say you had like an egg, you went through like an egg phase of like eating eggs, a lot of eggs.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, kind of like you, you know, I eat a lot of eggs.

Barry Conrad
Not just exit or just exit.

Melanie Avalon
Not just eggs, no. But I did do, I think I did try the egg fast at one point. Three just eat eggs.

Barry Conrad
That's it.

Melanie Avalon
Mm hmm. That's when I was doing low carb, not fasting. I experimented with everything. That's that's so funny.

Barry Conrad
eggs, what's for dinner? Eggs, what's for lunch? Eggs, what's for breakfast? Eggs, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I do really I feel I feel there are two types of people some people do really good eating the same thing over and over others They do not do well with like they want like a lot of variety. I do really good with the same thing over and over

Barry Conrad
I feel like you do, based on knowing you and you just, and you know what, if it does, if it works for you, don't, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? Stick with it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so speaking of food, thanks again, Damon, for the question. Shall we have our proverbial breaking of our fast?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Sounds good to me. What do we have for this week's restaurant, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
Well, so the purpose of this part of the show for listeners is because we like to emphasize the importance of it's not just about the fasting, it's also about the feasting equally as important for all of the health benefits, honestly. And also we think it's really important that food is enjoyed and that people have the pleasure around food and it's all a good thing.

And you can learn about how I order crazy things at restaurants if you need help. So am I... Oh yeah, I'm doing today this one. Okay.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to see it. I'm excited.

Melanie Avalon
As you guys might have learned from the past few weeks, I like to pick now a restaurant at Epcot in Disney World, where they have 11 countries and every single country has a restaurant, as well as people. And let me emphasize, the people who work there are from that country, it's all in character and all in theme, it's amazing.

So this restaurant is actually very, we have to go here. Do you wanna know why? Why? Because this is the one Epcot restaurant that I growing up, it's the really, really nice fancy restaurant in the French pavilion. Some of the places have multiple restaurants and my parents would always go. And we would have to go like fin for ourselves while they ate dinner at this fancy restaurant. So I've never been, and it literally sounds like my perfect restaurant. And you can, that's like up on a second floor of this French, you know, little French town. And you can see the fireworks from the windows.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow i need to see i need to see what this looks like.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So I sent it to you. So I haven't actually been in there, but it's one of the nicest restaurants in Disney World. The problem is that it is a set price meal, which...

Barry Conrad
Which you love.

Melanie Avalon
Which we love!

Barry Conrad
I'm checking it out now, wow, okay. Let me check out this dinner menu. Is this like a starter cocktail? Yeah, walk us through it, Mel, tell us.

Melanie Avalon
So we have the dinner menu. It's called Monsieur Paul. And the starter cocktail is aperitif amuse-bouche. Okay, so we don't know what it is because they probably change. It's probably whatever the chef has cooked up that evening. So we don't know what the starter cocktail is, but you can have it.

And I might have it. Okay. Now we have the appetizer. Choose one. Okay. What would you have?

Barry Conrad
Oh my gosh, okay, here we go. I'm looking at this now.

You know what? My eyes go straight to that main lobster salad with passion fruit vinaigrette. And it's called Salada dahama domain vinaigrette or fruits de la passion.

Melanie Avalon
fruits of passion. I've never had escargot. Have you?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, I don't think so.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like it's such a staple food that is so referenced in culture for decades upon decades, and I've never had it. And they have it here.

Castiletta escargot de escargot a la cresconieur sur une emulsion de pomme de derre. Oh, with an emulsion of the fruit of the earth. Wow, that sounds pretty good. That's my French coming through. So it's escargot, castiletta with watercress and potato emulsion. And I'm guessing, wait, is pomme de terre potato in French and it means fruit of the earth? I wonder if they can make the escargot plain. It's probably really gross actually. Probably doesn't taste good. You know what, isn't it snails?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I feel like it could be quite delicious, no?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know. The crazy thing is I have no idea what it tastes like. Like I can't even envision what it tastes like. Can you?

Barry Conrad
I don't know. I actually, I'm incorrect. I actually have had snails. I've had snails in Paris. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
You did? How were they?

Barry Conrad
Really good, really, really delicious, like really, like the texture is similar to one of my favorite things which you hate, oysters.

Melanie Avalon
You know what, maybe that's why, because I'm getting those vibes. I'm getting those vibes.

I literally, the thing that popped into my head when I was saying that I don't know if I'm going to like them, oysters were popping in my head. I was like, I think this is an oyster situation.

Barry Conrad
But it's not smell seriously. It's so good at like, I actually can remember it was delicious.

It was buttery melts in your mouth. It's a different, it's a completely different taste oysters, but the similar texture, I would say.

Melanie Avalon
But how much of the taste from what you remember was the actual snail versus the sauce it was in? Important question.

Barry Conrad
I could taste this nail like it wasn't completely drenched in whatever it was, you know, I could I could definitely still taste it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, I think I've got to get that then. And did they have, where you were growing up, slugs? Are there slugs in Australia?

Barry Conrad
probably but I don't think we I don't think we had that well I've never tasted that I don't think do they have that is it a thing

Melanie Avalon
Where you grew up? Oh, well, not to eat.

I was just wondering if the animal, like, like if they had those or if they have them in Australia or South Africa, I think you would know they come out after the rain.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have those. Do you have slugs?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, but I feel like you don't see them anymore. I feel like wildlife is I don't know if I just don't go outside and look around like maybe it's just the when you're a kid you're, you know, out in the wild, or maybe there's just less of them.

So, okay, so that's our appetizer. Now we have a fish course. What are you gonna have for this?

Barry Conrad
Ah, wow. Okay. Let's look at this. I'm going to go with two things.

Oh, it's a set menu. Okay. I can't do two. I'm going to go see it. Scallops served with maple pumpkin. We'll do it because I actually, Melanie, I actually had scallop. I was going to save this for to tell you later, but I had scallops on the weekend. I bought some from Costco, not from Costco, but I bought them from a store like locally. It wasn't like a massive bag. It was like 300 grams, not that much, but I defrosted it overnight in the fridge, cooked them in my, the Dutch oven situation with butter and garlic. And it was so good. It was so good.

Melanie Avalon
Calps are so good.

Barry Conrad
also short lived short lived just it's just not enough like that's 300 grams is like nothing

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I know. I know. Yeah, this is true.

Barry Conrad
So I would choose that. I can't say it, Melanie. What is it, Kokoke saying jucks or put them around at sort of de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de de

Melanie Avalon
Oh, I love that. It's that. But there's an English description.

Barry Conrad
Seared scallops served with maple pumpkin velout. Sounds good. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
they have sea bass. I would want to know if that's Chilean sea bass, which fun fact is probably my favorite fish and I can't eat it because it's so high in mercury, which is so sad, but I'm obsessed with how it tastes.

I think I would get the, it's a little bit higher in mercury, but I don't think it's too bad. I might get the snapper or the scallops as well. I could, yeah. So there's a snapper, which is in potato scales and time sauce. So if they could make that just completely plain, please.

Barry Conrad
And I can have the potato if you don't want it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, oh, yeah, the potato on the side, please. So, and then we have True Normand, which is a palate cleanser served with pear, brandy, and sorbet.

Barry Conrad
That sounds like a very me thing i would love that actually you gonna have them out.

Melanie Avalon
Nope, you can have, I might taste the brandy. Oh wait, wait, wait. I wonder if it's, I wonder if it's like a sauce or if it's like a shot of brandy.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, good question. Yeah, pair brandy. I wonder if it's like, like an affogato kind of a thing, you know? Oh, what was that word? You don't have an affogato?

Melanie Avalon
You don't have that? What is that?

Barry Conrad
Oh, so if you look up, I forgot it. So basically what it is, it's like a glass with ice cream and like.

Melanie Avalon
Italian coffee-based desserts.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, and you put like a shot of Bailey's over the top. Yeah, it's delicious Mel. You love it

Melanie Avalon
It looks good. It looks good. Okay, well that will be on the table and we'll figure it out. You'll definitely be having it.

Okay, now we get to my favorite. The meat course is choose one. What are you going to have here?

Barry Conrad
I'm going straight to that, I'm just going to do the English description. Straight to that rack of lamb roasted in cocote, curly green cabbage stuffed with mushrooms and chestnuts, fresh thyme juices.

That sounds so good. Delicious.

Melanie Avalon
That does sound really good. How would you get it prepared?

Barry Conrad
I want to go more on the rare side, I don't want it to be too cooked.

Melanie Avalon
I'm torn between the rack of lamb and the center cut beef tenderloins. Maybe I'll get, do you want a bite of the tenderloins?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Yeah, we can share. Yeah, let's do that. You can have a bite of mine, I can have a bite of yours.

Melanie Avalon
and I'll get it blue if they'll do it with everything on the side so you can have what you want. It's center cut beef tenderloin, porcini, fracasse, mashed potatoes, mousseline, I don't know how to say it, and Bordelet sauce, I can say that.

And then we have the cheese course, which is an imported cheese plate. So you're gonna get double because you can have mine too.

Barry Conrad
Perfect. Well, for me, I feel I've realized this.

This is like when we eat together, I'm going to be eating. I'm going to be in heaven because you're going to be palming things off to me.

Look, am I having that? Am I having that? Am I having that?

Melanie Avalon
Yep, it works well. Definitely if we go to a set course place. I need to order like two orders of it for me so I can double up on what I can have from the set course.

So then there's a dessert section. What would you get there?

Barry Conrad
Wow, okay. I wish I could choose to I'm gonna go the chocolate almond cake chocolate cream

Melanie Avalon
You can choose to surprise. Ding, ding, ding.

Barry Conrad
I'll do the chocolate almond cake, chocolate cream, hazelnut biscuit, chocolate ice cream, warm chocolate, it's just a chocolate heaven, warm chocolate cognate sauce, cognac sauce, and then I'll also get, because Melanie will give me hers, thanks so much Mel, is the thin apple art with almond cream. You think that's supposed to say tart?

Maybe, because what's thin apple art, is that a thing, what's that?

Melanie Avalon
It's like an artsy rendition of a thin apple.

Barry Conrad
Well, like just like a, like a portrait you put in the.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like this is a a typo especially because the the title of it is tart. Oh Palm See see I was right. Oh palm seen Apple, right? Cuz then I say earlier Apple of the earth Okay, or fruit of the earth. I was wrong.

Oh, yeah So I think earlier it was Apple of the earth. I guess regardless. Okay, then we have a make Mignon Mignard DC's and digestive so it's assorted many desserts served with a digestive cocktail

Barry Conrad
That sounds really good. Are you gonna have it, Mill?

Melanie Avalon
No, that said they probably have a good wine menu here.

That's what I'm excited about because French wine They don't have the wine menu online, but France is my go-to place for wine so I feel like this might be the one place one of the only places in Disney World where I don't have to you know, do a little sneaking sneaking

Barry Conrad
with your James Bond, Bond girl, hidden thing, hidden situation.

Melanie Avalon
which to bring everything full circle is something I'm so excited about in Vegas because it's just anything goes there, you know, I can just bring wine wherever I want.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. Are you are you staying, speaking of eggers, are you staying for long? How long are you staying for this time? Yes. Not a day, like at least two days, right?

Melanie Avalon
Just a day. You know, like we get there and then the next day is like the recording and the show, and then we go home the next day. It's gonna be so fun.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be so fun. That sounds awesome, actually.

Melanie Avalon
You should come with us. Do you want to come?

Barry Conrad
I would love to come. I think that would be so much fun as well in Vegas, Vegas, the city. Yeah. It'd be awesome.

Melanie Avalon
hang out with me and the sister, go to a magic show.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, eat something good somewhere.

Melanie Avalon
Yep, you could come to the studio, the recording, the podcast recording.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'll sit there and have have trinkets and watch you guys. Yeah. Well, Melanie, this restaurant is awesome. And I can see why you want to go.

It looks like there's so many courses. It looks like it's like very festive. It feels like very, you know, like they really put a lot of care into it. And they, you know, are going to be really beautiful to go to.

Melanie Avalon
It's like being in France, but not in a Disney world with fireworks outside. And they have a dress code. It's like one of the only restaurants in Disney world with a dress code.

Barry Conrad
So what do you have? What's the dress kit? What do you have to wear?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I think it's basically like just you can't, you know, you know, that's a good question.

Barry Conrad
It's like no genes, no procs.

Melanie Avalon
It's a resort casual dress code. So you have to wear clean, neat, well-maintained clothing, no swimwear. So you can't wear like tank tops are not recommended because you know, you're in Disney world. So hokey dokey.

Well, on that note, this was so, so fun. Listeners, we hope you enjoyed the show. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at iapodcast.com or you can go to iapodcast.com and you can submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will have links to everything that we talked about as well as a full transcript. And that will be at iapodcast.com slash episode 428. And yeah, you can follow us on Instagram. We are iapodcast, I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
No, thank you so much for tuning in everyone. Love having you listen. So good to hang out again in our show, Mel, and we'll see you again next time.

Melanie Avalon
some, I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
Talk to you next week.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes.

We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Jun 23

Episode 427 – The Psychology Of Food Fear, Fasting For Gut Health, The Role Of Diagnoses, Restriction Vs. Intuition, Sleep, Light, And Stress, Mindset And Physical Healing, Confidence With Gut-Safe Eating, Healing Protocols That Work, And More!

Welcome to Episode 427 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

On this week's special episode, Melanie is interviewed by Dane Johnson on his podcast, How I Healed My Gut with Dane Johnson.

Dane Johnson is the Founder/CEO of Crohn's Colitis Lifestyle and a Board Certified Nutritionist specializing in reversing Crohn’s Disease and Ulcerative Colitis. Dane’s story ignited through extreme personal hardship fighting for his life from a fierce Crohn’s/Colitis diagnosis nearly taking his life in December 2014.

To date, Dane and his impassioned team of specialists have created the most success stories in the world for reversing IBD symptoms using his signature S.H.I.E.L.D. Program. His international IBD consulting firm is one of the few organizations in the world that only treat IBD, and see roughly 100+ international IBD cases a week!

He has successfully worked with kids as young as 3 and adults 70 years young! He has unlocked great success no matter a client's diet preference, medication use, past surgeries, or past failures using natural remedies. His team at CCLifestyle has successfully helped thousands of clients with life-threatening cases, severe symptoms such as 20+ BM’s a day, or chronic weight loss take their lives back by focusing on natural methods.

His passion, unique experience, and niche in the field of IBD have empowered him to create unparalleled value for real, long-term symptom relief for all those suffering from Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

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If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 427 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, so pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, friends. Welcome back to the show. We have a very special episode for you today. This is actually a conversation that I had on Dane Johnson's podcast, which is called How I Healed My Gut. He interviewed me about my story when it came out. We talked a lot about intermittent fasting. We also talked a lot about the role of mindset and your perspective when it comes to health issues, food fears, living a normal life, whether or not you should follow a restrictive diet. It was a really powerful conversation, so I figured it was a perfect thing to share with you guys on this show. And if you would like to hear more from Dane and hear about his story, he actually was on this show before. That was episode 364. We will put a link to that in the show notes. And now without further ado, please enjoy this fabulous conversation in which Dane Johnson interviews me about my story with gut health and intermittent fasting.

Dane Johnson
Melanie, thank you so much for joining me today. Discuss your journey with functional medicine, biohacking after interviewing the best biohackers and functional doctors all around the world these last few years.

I'm so excited to share what you've experienced, what you've learned. Thank you so much for being here.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for having me, Dane. I seriously adore what you're doing.

Your energy, your motivation for people is so incredible. And then what you're actually doing, changing people's lives with the whole gut stuff. And I've been there, or I'm kind of still there, so I'm happy to be here and share with listeners.

Dane Johnson
Thank you so much, man. I'm so happy for today.

Today, guys, we're going to be talking about, you know, what really works in biohacking? What's the fluff? Where can our money be best spent? You know, how effective can restrictive diets be in your success? And where do you put rubber to road? So I'm so excited to dive in. And Melanie, I love you for this topic because, you know, I was on your podcast a year and a half ago, we were just talking about you've interviewed everybody. You've, you know, spent time with the biggest, the baddest, the smartest, most successful biohackers and functional medicine practitioners in the world. What has that been like for you? What are some of the biggest takeaways that you think have impacted your gut health in your life for optimal success?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's it's so surreal. Honestly, it's especially surreal because I experienced my own health issues, including predominantly gut health issues.

That's kind of what was the catalyst for sending me down a journey of a black hole of health issues. And that was before I I mean, was it before I was podcasting? Yeah, it was before I was podcasting. So at that point in time, I was just a consumer of all this information and a relentless researcher. So it's very surreal today to be podcasting regularly. And all these people, I was reading their books and absorbing their blogs and listening to their podcasts. Now the majority of them are my good friends, which is very crazy to me.

But yeah, should I start with my story or like what I've learned? Where do you want to take it?

Dane Johnson
Start more with what you were going through with your health and how that's transcended into starting to use these methods with diet and supplements and biohacking and nervous system, all this. But tell us a bit about your story and how you came to this place.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, sure. My first interest in the body came through the conventional typical method of dieting, so I was always trying different diets growing up. I was never overwhelmingly overweight, but I would want to lose, you know, a few pounds. So I would do things like calorie counting and crazy really had a profound effect on me until I tried a low-carb diet, and at that time it was Atkins. And that's when I first realized that changing what I ate not only could affect my weight, but also had these other effects on my metabolic health, my energy levels, my skin. And then I just got really obsessed with trying all the different things. I started doing intermittent fasting about a decade ago. That was a game changer for me, again with weight loss, health, energy, vitality, everything like that.

I adopted a paleo diet that even further increased my experience, and then everything sort of crashed and burned. I graduated from USC in Southern California from film and theater school, and I was high on adrenaline, loving life, and I started not feeling well, and it's hard to remember exactly what happened when. I do know that the gut issue started when I got food poisoning at a like a Japanese restaurant, and what's interesting about that experience was I got food poisoning. I remember I had like colonoscopy. I was very young. They didn't really find anything, and that procedure kind of like cleared me out and fixed me momentarily, but I felt off after that. I know that's a very common experience for people. Like they have some sort of, you know, catalyzing event, and then they never quite feel the same. So after that I felt off. I got diagnosed with SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and from there I got prescribed Rifaximin, which is the antibiotic that specifically targets the small intestine to wipe out the overgrowth and the small intestine. So prior to that, I would eat food, and I didn't really think about it after that. Like I didn't think about if it was digesting. I didn't think about its transit time during my system. I just ate food, and then if I had a stomach ache or didn't feel well, I wasn't fixated on the actual food transit, what was happening in my gut, all of that. After Rifaximin, and I don't want to scare people away from it because I know that for a lot of people with SIBO, it actually really really helps them, and it's like a game changer. For me, it wasn't. I think I didn't have the, because I know there's like methane dominant versus hydrogen dominant bacteria and things like that, I don't think I was the candidate for it. So after that is when I started getting neurotic. Like I felt like food would just sit in me. I felt like I wasn't digesting it. I developed a, honestly, like a psychological complex surrounding it because I started getting severely worried about being constipated, about food not moving through me.

Melanie Avalon
I just felt toxic, and it was not a good time. And I've been seeing a therapist for years and years. And honestly, the reason I started seeing a therapist probably that long ago, you know, eight years ago or so was because I was like, I gotta tackle the psychological issue of this because I can't be scared of food. This is not this is not the way to live.

So that's also when I started really experimenting with diets like a low FODMAP diet, which I actually adopted and to this day works really well for me. That's when I started experimenting with digestive support and things like that. And it ended up being like a myriad mosaic of a lot of not good things that I had going on. So it wasn't just the gut. It was also I realized I had mercury poisoning, I realized I was anemic, I realized I had carbon monoxide poisoning from my apartment. So it was like a lot of stuff. But that ultimately led to my interest in the biohacking field, because I just wanted to feel better. So I was researching, I was trying all the things. And the more things I tried, the more things I found that worked. And I just started I started getting a desire to share all of this with everybody, which led to podcasting.

So that was a lot I can pause there. But that's like the journey that the dark part of the journey.

Dane Johnson
Yeah, and I know there's so much light in there, but you said some powerful things I want everyone listening to really take note because it's gonna help change your life and your perspective around inflammatory bowel disease Melanie they did a colonoscopy. They didn't find in diagnose you with something but yet Food fear still happened. You're still having chronic GI issues. You couldn't figure out still getting skin issues low energy You know going through periods of chronic diarrhea that would come or go or constipation But they didn't give you a name This is all the same experience that other people who've been identified as a chronic incurable disease are our feeling and are going through So the big point here is just because they gave you her name or didn't give you a name doesn't mean you're not going through Something real that's serious.

That's hard and And you won't still develop the same type of traumas, you know I think that's also what what happened here Melanie what you're talking about and I just want to hold space for anyone out there Who's you know has this has been identified as I have this incurable disease that even people who don't have that same? Stamp on their forehead by a doctor who just gave their subjective opinion Can still go through very similar experiences. We all Have our own health batters or struggles and we can learn from each other And maybe we're all not that different because I don't know about you Melanie, but for years it was Oh, I can't relate with someone like Melanie because they don't they a doctor didn't tell her she had IBD But in reality how much is the same and you said well, I had other issues. I had anemia I had heavy metal issues. How many people who've been stamped on the on the head with IBD have anemia have heavy metal issues Have skin issues have it may be histamine issues is all that wrapped up in the word IDD or the phrase so I just want to take this moment that we all can take our power back and realize it doesn't matter if Someone stamps you on the forehead with this diagnosis or not. It doesn't save us from what we're going through and we all have to take this Experience into our hands to become self-empowered become the CEO of our health, which I think Melanie what a lot of what you've done and We can relate just because someone doesn't diagnose with the same disease doesn't mean we can't learn from each other I mean Melanie you've put so much work into this without a diagnosis.

How did that feel for you? When you were you know, were you almost begging that they just called it something or were you kind of still happy that ah They're not giving me this name that I have to carry around like a badge of honor for the rest of my life

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no, I'm so glad you drew attention to that. And it's so interesting because, so I got the catch-all diagnosis of IBS, which is what they give you when they don't know what it is. And it's so interesting because it goes both ways. So on the one hand, people don't get the diagnosis they're looking for. And so then they don't know what to do. They feel like they can't take agency or they feel like they're being written off.

And then on the other hand, I think people can over identify with the diagnosis. So when they finally said that I had SIBO, I think I grabbed that and I ran with that and not in a healthy way. Like I started thinking, okay, I have SIBO. Like I just thought about it 24 seven. All I thought about was how I have this overgrowth of bacteria and I'm feeding the bad bacteria. And I went into this mission to kill the bacteria. I've taken all the antibacterials all the time, mostly natural ones. But it's like I flipped to the other side of fear where I felt like the label defined me. And I'm trying to remember when, I think I might've just come out of exhaustion, honestly, because that can do it. But I definitely had a moment where I was like, I'm not gonna try to like keep killing the bacteria for the rest of my life. I'm just gonna try to heal and focus on the good things I can put in my body rather than always being in this defensive fear-based killing mode of the bacteria. And that was actually for me personally, and it's a different journey for everybody. But for me personally, that was like, I turned a corner with that. And that was really helpful.

And I'm trying to remember, you know what, this is really crazy timing. It might have been reading Dr. Michael Ruscio's Healthy Gut, Healthy You. And the reason this is crazy timing is I'm interviewing him next week. And I was just like reflecting on how far I've come in that journey. But yeah, it's hard. So much of it is the mindset surrounding it and the identity and the labels. So you nailed it with that. It's so confusing.

Dane Johnson
This is something we all can learn from because maybe in today's episode, we can start finding more common ground than we ever thought was possible. We can take down dividers of labels and realize that we all have a human gut, prone to diarrhea or constipation or cramp or not feeling like food is sitting with us, right? Or skin issues or anxiety or poor digestion or malabsorption leading to anemia. Does the label really matter?

When we can all sit down and say, we all have a human gut. How do we get real results and how do we get imbalanced with that? You know, that's one of the answers right there. You said it, Melanie. You turned a corner when you let go of the fear and maybe a bit for you in that personal experience, it was becoming a neurotic nature of killing, killing, killing. Started finding a balance or homeostasis in your lifestyle that kept that SIBO more in line naturally. You didn't have to try. It just was because I, you know, maybe adding in probiotics or washing sugars or low FODMAP, intermittent fasting, all that can be really beneficial. So now it just became, you know, our lives, how we live, now we choose to wake up and go to bed and how we choose to eat needs to be something that makes us both happy and healthy. So that really says that needs to balance our health. You know, it needs to balance the gut. And that's what that turning, you found a balanced way where it was no longer work. Is that right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, exactly. I think for me, what really worked was a much more holistic picture and approach to my health rather than myopic view where I'm just targeting this one thing with these supplements or, you know, having a broader picture and focusing on my diet in general, what am I eating, what are the foods that make me feel good, and then focusing on broader things like sleep. I mean, I went down the rabbit hole with that and supporting my sleep and and all these other, you know, biohacking type things in my life that just make me feel and help me feel healthier. It's been so helpful.

And I've had to work on, I still eat, it's funny, like if you look at what I eat, it looks restrictive. I am very happy now with what I eat. I exist within the world of foods that I like, and it's what makes me feel good. And so there's been a journey there of there's so much like there's just so much judgment of ourselves and there's worry about what other people are going to think. And so I think just knowing what works for me has been one of the most helpful approaches.

Dane Johnson
Can we unpack that statement? I think this is something that will really serve us all.

Can we unpack that statement of, it looks like I'm on a restrictive diet that would make other people miserable. And when I tell them what I eat, it makes other people give you probably these wide eyes of how do you do this? But then you said something beautiful. You said, I'm in balance with this. I love it. It makes me happy and it makes me feel good. So again, no major diagnosis. SIBO is a state that needs to be fixed in the gut. IBS, as you said, IBS, IBD, a lot of it's, well, we don't know the root cause. IDK equals IBD or IBS, right? And you took it upon yourself to continue to go after a lifestyle that make you happy and healthy. So how did you go from I'm a normal person, you, whatever I want to, I'm now going to choose eating this way as a lifestyle. I'm not on a clock. I'm not doing a 30 day cleanse. I'm not, this is how I like to live and I'm happy here.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's it's really interesting because I'm reflecting on my journey through that and it's been such a long journey of making conscious food choices. So like I said, when I started doing low carb in college, that's when I started making macronutrient related food choices. So doing low carb. And then when I did paleo, that's when I started making whole foods based food choices. So only eating whole foods. And then I went I in college, I kind of did a carnivore stand again before it was before it was a thing. But that was more like an experiment. So it's been years and years of existing within food choice paradigms.

It's taken a while, though, to separate the label. So for the longest time, and I already said it on this show, I said I eat a low FODMAP diet at the same time. What I eat is like it covers food we would have eaten as natural hunter gatherers. So I don't even I almost don't know what the benefit is to calling it low FODMAP because that makes it sound almost more restrictive than it is. Because basically what I eat is I eat tons of meat, tons of seafood, like cucumbers, I eat a lot of fruit, broccoli, blueberries. So I'm eating a wider range of whole foods. And it's what works for me. I do like you mentioned it. I do deal with it. So if I go out to eat at a restaurant, for example, I have had to work on having confidence to just order what I want to order, which ends which usually ends up being like, can I have a steak completely plain, like not all the the oils and the and all of that stuff? And can I just have, you know, a simple like, you know, spinach on the side? And one of the hardest things I think with people who struggle with chronic disease and especially gotten health issues, there's just dealing with it yourself of feeling better. And then there's the existing in society. And how do you feel OK about that? Because the modern world is they eat a very different very differently often times.

Dane Johnson
You know, but I like, I love what you're saying about, it makes you happy. That is what I want everyone to walk away with.

I want you to build a nutrition plan that makes you happy and helping people and realize, just think back 150 years ago, there were no food options. It was this or starve. It was, we're gonna hunt this animal for meat and there was only a carbohydrate in the summer, right? Been that when, you know, photosynthesis were happening and the, you know, the plants are making glycogen and all the fruits and all this, all these vegetables, some of them. And so we've never had such options and that might be part of the anxiety is that we're supposed to have Korean food on Tuesday and Mexican food on Wednesday and a burger with fries on Thursday and then Friday's sushi. And it's like, this is, you need an iron gut, especially under the process of all this. That when you've been sick like me or Melanie and your gut's been injured, you no longer desire to eat foreign fake food that does not serve your vibrance and your ability to stand up and say, my gut feels good, my energy is good. I feel like I'm gonna sleep well tonight. I feel a good bowel movement coming on. That is worth 10 times more. And when you own that and say, I don't care what other people do, this is what makes me happy. And as long as my lab work looks good and I'm in a good place with my symptoms and goals, it doesn't matter. And you've done the hard work, Melanie, of getting to that place, of divorcing all of the social norms or social expectations of who you're supposed to be, how you're supposed to party and what you're supposed to order at a restaurant.

Melanie Avalon
I really I could not agree more. It's it's so interesting.

So you spoke about, you know, the the variety that we're supposed to today so we know we know evolutionarily that Variety and it's a double-edged sword or there's two sides to it because we do know that variety is Likely very beneficial for the gut microbiome. So there's that variety in plants and and whole food sources and at the same time variety in processed food Variety tells our brain to eat more because Work like from an evolutionary perspective if there was a new source of food It's a potential new source of food. So every time we get a new flavor a new Taste it's gonna make us want to eat more That's why people can actually they might be full and then they switch to a different food and they get hungry again like dessert You know like you're full but you can have dessert so I think variety gets confused with Like a healthy mindset approach to diet.

So people think if you are just eating a wide range of foods that that's healthier maybe psychologically When I just know for me and I'm glad that you're emphasizing the happiness part like I know that I'm getting the nutrients I need the protein. I need I think protein is so important and I'm eating real whole foods So if it's a slightly more limited list, but I'm happy with it Then let that be that's okay

Dane Johnson
Something also I think you've developed that we can put into words as a takeaway is nothing is stronger in knowing what's good for your body than a sharpened and seasoned intuition. When you spend time taking this and applying it, I think Melanie, you went on strict diets, you did carnivore, you did paleo, you done fasting, intermittent fasting, you done FODMAP. All of that has led to a sharp, sharp intuitive nature on what helps you feel healthy and thriving.

That's how you can get confidence and happiness because I think a lot of when you're saying I'm happy with my diet, you're saying I'm confident in the way I eat because I've already gone left, right, north, south, east, west. I've done so much. This is where I know I want to be. You are not easily influenced out of that because of the hard work, because of the dedication, because of the willingness to try. You didn't fail with those other diets. They were experiences that sharpened you intuition to get you to where you are now.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. Also, just speaking on the intuition piece, because I just interviewed Dr. Stephen Gundry. His newest book is about the gut-brain connection. And he talks about the intuition piece because, especially with our gut and our gut microbiome, it's informed by what we're eating and it starts craving based on what we're eating. So, if we're eating a more limited diet, but healthy whole foods, we're going to be craving those foods and we're going to taste good. On the flip side, if we are having a more processed, standard American diet, we're going to actually intuitively crave those foods because the gut microbiome can send those neurotransmitters and make us actually crave those foods. So, the intuition piece to me is so fascinating.

It's fascinating how your cravings can change, your taste buds can change, and even your intuitive feeling can change based on what you're eating. But I can tell you, people don't believe me, but I am so happy with the food I eat. It tastes so good to me and I'm crazy. So, at restaurants, because I do intermittent fasting every day and I do one meal a day at night. So, just ordering one meal at a restaurant is usually not enough. So, I usually order two entrees and then I usually order for dessert, a savory dessert. So, I'll get like, I'll ask for like a shrimp cocktail for dessert or something.

Dane Johnson
Like, who is this young lady just hounding this food? I love that. Guys, this is a big takeaway. Make sure happiness is also confidence.

And if you don't have confidence in your nutrition, ask yourself, how much have you really dedicated yourself just to try, not just for it to work, we want it to work, but also to build the confidence on what will work for you and why, so you can build your nutrition plan, not just follow a diet. And what you're saying is so mega. And a big point of what you just said about Dr. Gundry, I crave a steak. I cannot get, I don't wake up. There's not a day that goes by that goes, man, I am so tired eating steak. You can give me a steak, a properly prepared grass bed, grass finished organic with the right type of salt, cooked the right way. That is gonna be, my neurotransmitters are firing all the time, just always firing because that's where I get that adequate protein. That's where I get those calories because I also tend to eat more restrictive foods. I'm careful with polysaccharides, the goons, lectins, Dr. Gundry's plan. I use a lot of his strategies around those grains and always complex carbs, polysaccharides is another name for that. And we learn these things. I think you're so right in what you're saying is when your body gets something that really serves it, it starts craving it. So I might start craving a little bit more sprouted stone grounded almond butter because I've been eating it more lately and my body goes, oh, that's a great source of certain fats or certain protein or calories that I wasn't getting before. Same thing with raspberries or, you know, arugula because if I have a lot of salads, my body might all of a sudden I might wake up one day and go, hmm, I feel like I'm on a salad. Like a low lectin, low oxalate salad that's been broken down with certain acids for better digestion, you know, that's cleaned. So I think there's a lot to what you're saying is when you really just try to eat really great food, your body will start craving it as it starts to switch to understand, oh, okay, this is my source of fuel now.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. I literally, one thing I love about for me practicing intermittent fasting is it's a feast every night for me and I literally look forward to it so much. I'm not like craving and hungry during the day.

I just, I love the fasted period and then I love the eating period and I love what I eat and it's great. So I'm going to keep on keeping on. I'm going to keep ordering those savory desserts at restaurants.

Dane Johnson
Can you share with everyone how you came to the realization that intermittent fasting was going to be a lifestyle for you? And I know it's just your experience, but what have been some of the pros and cons, how to really make sense of it for your life and integrating that when you were dealing with constipation or SIBO or any of those other GI issues?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so it's interesting because I started intermittent fasting also in college before any of the stuff went, you know, bad. And I was gonna just try it for a week was my game plan. I read a blog about it online. And I was like, I'll try this for a week. This sounds interesting. And I never stopped because it, it just was so helpful for me.

I loved that I no longer had what I really didn't like about even with low carbon keto and Atkins before fasting, that really helped my appetite and my cravings and things like that. But I still was always thinking about my next meal. And that was just such a big part of my mental capacity and energy during the day. And so with fasting, it switched me to where I didn't even have to think about that anymore, like the energetic load that was lifted from my shoulders from not having to make food decisions all day and not have to think about food all day, and then get to eat this, you know, feast type situation at night. It just really worked for me. I think a lot of people turn to intermittent fasting a lot for the health benefits, which there's so many and the weight loss and all that. But I think a lot of the unexpected benefits are things like the time you get back and the, the, the mental anxiety that goes away from not having to make these dietary choices. And there's just, there's so much there in that aspect. So that's really what kept me doing that.

Dane Johnson
I would love to also point out earlier you mentioned how when you ate food you felt off with it It didn't sick good you didn't feel good with it and that caused a an anxiety. Yes, and yes So when you're not eating you're getting autophagy, which is your body cleaning out the cells balancing the microbiome Right getting rid of zombie cells like senescent cells You are getting yourself pure bowel rest to optimize all those things You're saving the money you're saving the time But now you're building something for you I can see how that worked for you where it's like I don't have to have those feelings inside of me right now.

You could focus on your podcast. I mean You're reading these books. You're interviewing these huge guests. You're you're traveling the world doing all these things You've got a lot to do and so you get all the health benefits of I was told I have SIBO What if all this disease manifests into something worse? Imminent fasting helps to can control that because scientifically we see that people with imminent fast have a ton of benefits longevity Metabolics liver health gut health all of those things then you get rid of the anxiety and worried out of fear on the food you're eating and There's ways to do it where you actually feel more energetic How many of us eat and then we feel sluggish after eating when we thinking oh, I need to eat because I'm low on energy

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And that's why for me, especially with the, um, I eat in the evening and I sleep so much better on a full stomach. I was never the type I, if I could, I always say if I could change one thing about myself, it would be, I would change my circadian rhythm. I am not the, like the morning person, the eat breakfast. I'm just not that person.

I'm the, the late night, the late night owl that likes to eat late and all of those things and needs to sleep on a full stomach. So it, if I were to eat during the day now, and I've been doing this for so long, I, I would get so tired, um, and lethargic and not, not productive. So I found that the window of eating that just really, really suits my body works really well for me.

Dane Johnson
So I think there's a lot there that you found something that allows you to get back to work, be in balance is also still healthy or getting enough nutrients and protein and all this. And you're also helping to optimize your gut. I mean, the science is there around fasting. Should we be doing that with IBD? I think if you're malnourished and severely underweight, speak with your doctor before doing that.

I think there are some other ways to consider that, especially with me, I was 120 pounds from 100. There's no way intermittent. I couldn't intermittent fast. I had to have some calories so that I didn't wither away and have to go back on some kind of life support. So, obviously there are pros and cons. I think that's one big point that we have to make here is, when I interviewed you or you interview a lot of people, we always have this idea that this worked for me, it might not work for you. And what we're really saying is, when you look at these strategies for healing, you have to see healing like a chest match. The rule is, you make your move on the chest board based on how your opponent moves. And you never know your next move until you see your opponent's move. So it's a real time pivot. So when you say it works for you, it might not work for everyone else. That's because people are not understanding how to play the chess game of health. What are the pros and cons of intermittent fasting? And why would you consider doing it? Why would you not consider doing it? And you don't have to do it exactly like Melanie. But if you're dealing with some of these issues and you have a ton of food fear, you can get the same calories in a four or five hour eating window as you did in a 12 hour eating window. And that could have tons of benefits like it's had for Melanie here. What have been some of the big benefits you've noticed and why you've stuck with it? Like the top benefits of intermittent fasting for you that you say, this is me. This is why it's helped me and how it might be able to help other peoples who can relate with you.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And just to emphasize the individuality aspect, because you were asking the beginning, you know, what are my biggest takeaways in general from podcasting and being in this biohacking sphere and everything. And having interviewed so many people, there's just not one diet for everybody is my takeaway. Like if there was, I really think we would have found it. If there was one perfect eating window, one perfect diet, I think we would have found it. And I think it would work for everybody, but that's just not the case and not the experience.

So even so when it comes to fasting, again, I think finding the eating window that works for you is so, so important. And there's a lot of ways that it can be done. You can look at the, you can do it like a meal based thing. So you're only eating dinner, you're only eating lunch or only eating breakfast, or you're eating only breakfast and lunch, like, or you can do it by the clock, like I'm only eating between these hours, or you could do it based on I just want to fast, you know, a certain minimum amount of hours each day and do it more that way. There's a lot of different approaches. And you can also, you know, mix it up. So the top benefits I've experienced, there's so many. I think so one of them is what I was talking about earlier about not having to, not having to restrict myself when I actually am eating. So I have my eating window, that's my eating window, I get to nourish my body, viscerally experience the pleasure of food, just I get all the the benefits of eating without being haunted by this idea that I have to count calories or that I have to stop eating soon or that just that that's all gone. So I love I love that experience. I love the time that I get back. It's you don't realize how much time you spend when you're eating multiple meals and snacks throughout the day, but it's it adds up. So just having an uninterrupted block of time every day has been so so incredible for for everything in my life.

And the sleep, like I mentioned, it really, really helps with my sleep. And it really, really helps just in general with me maintaining my my health and my body constitution, all the things and the gut rest, like you're saying, because I think it's very, there is a lot of studies on fasting and healing the gut. And it can be very beneficial for we know that our our gut cells, they turn over very fast, which is good, because it means they can heal pretty fast. And at the same time, there's a lot of like the eating process is is inflammatory. Like there's way around that not like to a horrible extent, but it is, you know, using using the gut things happen down there. So having that that rest mode every day, especially if you're fasting, I think can be very, very healing.

And although I do want to draw attention, I agree with you that you know, people need to make sure they can get enough calories and nutrition, especially if that's what they're struggling with with IBD and such. But there's Yeah, there's a lot of benefits.

Dane Johnson
You know, for me, whenever I do imminent fasting, I've done three day water fasts and I've practiced a lot of minute fasting myself is if I can drink enough water and get enough electrolytes or earlier in the day, I have great energy. I have great energy and I'm one of those people that also has felt like if I eat a huge breakfast in the morning, which I used to want to do because I wanted to build muscle, I'm in the gym. So I'd have, you know, six or seven eggs and aching and a protein shake and all this stuff, but I felt so lethargic. My gut felt so heavy. And then the chance of me having to run to the bathroom more was just way greater. So there's a lot of benefit that when your body is ready, you can use intermittent fasting to save time, save money and potentially feel like you have more energy.

You know, what happens to the brain when you're not eating? Well, it turns on, it starts lighting up, looking for carbohydrates. That's what they say after 24 hour fasts, you're gonna start feeling like, whoa, I'm up, I can't sleep, you know? And so if you can get time, energy and money out of it, it's something you could consider. I think that there has to be a healing response for a lot of us or just talk to your doctor and do what's best for you. I think that's the best way of saying it, but a lot of real benefits. I thought I'd be a person who could never do intermittent fasting, but I found it like you, very, very valuable. And like you, I like to eat more at night. I like to go to bed. My heaviest meal is about 5 p.m. for me, up to 6 p.m., that's where I feel best. And when I don't eat a lot during the day, like it's 220 right now, and I've probably had about 500 calories, but I'm switched on, ready to go. And so it changes day to day, it changes based on where you travel. So wherever you are in the world, guys, realize that you can be flexible, you can move this. And as you get empowered, as you refine that intuition, you can change your plan a little bit based on what's happening in your life, if that suits you and if that works for you.

You know, question, I know we're running out of time here, Melanie, but last question for you. After all these interviews, over all this experience of biohacking and doing all these different diets and interviewing some of the best in the world around this, what have been some of the top highlights where you're seeing these world-renowned functional practitioners or doctors agree on? Like what are some of the highlights that we all should be focused on, right? What is the, are there any symbiotic nature solutions that we all say, yes, this is most important that we can do despite the nuances and differences we might feel about how to heal.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I love this question so much. And it's interesting. So in the diet world for that, it's very limited. Like, if you if it's like, everybody agrees, eat war, you know, do it. Yeah, no, like, yeah, drink water, eat, I think probably for the food for the diet world, it would be drink, drink water and eat whole foods. I really think that's the only thing everybody would agree on.

Even like the protein front, you know, people will say, high protein diet is the best. And then some people will say high, low protein diet is best for longevity. So it's it's confusing. But I think I think probably one of the biggest things that people agree on. And I also think it's the most one of the most important things for people's health, including their gut health. And I mentioned earlier, but supporting our sleep, I think is so so important. And we are so out of whack and out of line today with our natural circadian rhythms. We live these, you know, sedentary, over processed lives stuck in, you know, collections of artificial light and blue light, which messes up our melatonin, melatonin production, which messes with our sleep. And it's just not it's not ideal. And we're very stressed. So I think addressing sleep can be so helpful. And there's so much agency that you can take there. And I have my whole, my whole protocol that I've created and curated over years of doing all this research. So, you know, I, well, it starts in the morning, I make sure I get exposure to bright light in the morning, and throughout the day, staying active. And then in the evening, I have my whole protocol. So I, I use blue light blocking glasses, those help those block blue light, which, which actually shuts off your melatonin production, which can impede sleep. I light my apartment with red light at night, it looks like the red light district, which is kind of funny. For my sleeping environment, I keep the temperature very cold. I actually do like the low 60s, which is pretty pretty cold. And then I use a like a cooling mattress to help with my body temperature, because we know that helps support sleep. I use blackout curtains, eye mask, and I, I wind down, I don't use social media at night. So I think really, really addressing your sleeping habits can be can be a game changer for people and their health. And I think, I think, actually, probably all the experts would agree on that.

Dane Johnson
I think everyone can agree optimizing your sleep is key to autoimmune disease, gut health, liver health, anxiety, cellular repair, growth. There is, we all can win with that.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I definitely. And I think they also would agree on exposing ourselves to beneficial hermetic stressors.

So again, we're so sedentary today, we sit at our computers, we're inside, we're not moving, we exist in a very stable air conditioned temperature. So anything you can do that would mimic how we evolved when we were exposed to the environmental stressors actually has very beneficial effects on our health. So things like cryotherapy, where you're, you know, temporarily exposing yourself to very cold temperatures, be that through an ice bath or a cryotherapy air machine or a nitrogen machine, or even just doing a cold shower. So that's going to help with inflammation and boost mood and help regulate cortisol, or doing on the flip side, so like heat exposure. So having a sauna session, it's great for activating heat shock proteins, which have a longevity effect, and support muscle, it's great for detoxification. So I do that every day, I do sauna every day, I do cryotherapy every day. I think the things like that can be can make radical changes in people's health and wellness.

Dane Johnson
I love that, and I echo that. And guys, what she said, an environmental hermatic therapy. So, hermosis is a stress on your body that's just at the right balance that creates a healing response. Kind of like breaking down a muscle to build it to be stronger. Environmental heat, cold therapy, even something like pressure, atmospheric pressure, like oxygen chamber. That's my favorite.

I do sauna and I do H-bot. I've got it in my house. Those are like two of my favorite. And obviously exercise, walking up a hill is a type of stress on the body that when done properly, can have a healing response. I think this is really an important biohack everyone can take from today, is stop arguing about what we differ on and start focusing on being consistent on what we all agree on.

Let's optimize our sleep. Let's use certain states of environmental hermatic therapies where we feel ready to do that. I think another one, if I had to put one in there is I think almost everyone can agree that not snacking as often would be valuable, whether you're high carb, low protein, or vice versa, or whatever, your FODMAP or this, that. Giving bowel rest has its value. And then you have levels of that intermittent fasting or fasting, which you've shown and run a podcast on. And so these are things that can, I think we all could agree that sunlight, real sunlight to a certain level of exposure is going to be valuable, especially that morning sun with those natural red lights, that'd be good. You wanna use red light therapy, just wake up and go look at the sun. You got plenty of it right there. And oxygen, good water, clean water, not stored in a microplastic bottle, they see things all. Big takeaway today is what can you start doing that everyone has a consensus is gonna be great for us.

And that's really how I started. Not only when I looked at this, I was so confused. Like you, when I was on the consumer side, I was just reading everything. Everything was so conflicting. And what I said is, okay, what are the common pieces of advice I keep seeing over and over again from these practitioners I feel are full of integrity, full of trust, and have really helped people get results? What do they agree on? Let me start there. And- I love it. That's where you might, that's where you're probably gonna see the biggest ROI. And I know some of this stuff might not feel life-changing. Like, oh, it's not the supplement that's gonna change my life, but the consistency of good sleep, nervous system regulation, proper type of stress on your life or your body that's done therapeutically, you do these over and over again, you are going to see results. Consistency is worth more than perfection. Any last words, Melanie? Thank you so much for this awesome, awesome time and sharing your story.

Melanie Avalon
No, thank you, Dane. I, like I said, I just love, I love what you're doing so much. You're helping so many people. I feel so good right now.

I guess the way I always sign off my little, my little, what is it? Tagline? I don't know. I always say it at the end and it's breathe, be kind, you got this. So just taking a moment to breathe. You know, we didn't talk about breath work, but you know, everything, everything is okay and taking a moment to understand that. And then I just think kindness is so important and so underrated. Because you got this.

You do. You got this.

Dane Johnson
Amen. You got this, guys.

I'm going to put a link to Melanie's podcast, an amazing podcast. It's so good. You need to check it out. That's below. And I'll put a link to her Instagram and all the things below. Please connect with her, reach out so you can help change your life.

Thank you so much, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you, Dane. This was fabulous. Thank you.

Dane Johnson
God bless, guys.

Melanie Avalon
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Jun 16

Episode 426 – Metabolism Slowing Down With Age Myths, Tattoos’ Effects On Health And Wellness, Fasting Longer Than 24 Hours, Supporting Muscle With Old Age, Laser Hair Removal, And More!

⁠Tattoos as a risk factor for malignant lymphoma: a population-based case-control study⁠

Welcome to Episode 426 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

LMNT

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LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Botín⁠

⁠Destiny⁠

STUDIES:

⁠Daily energy expenditure through the human life course⁠

⁠Characterisation of tattoo inks used in Australia⁠

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 426 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 426 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey, Melanie. Hey, everyone tuning in. Thanks for being here. I am doing awesome. I'm having a great day.

I'm kind of back in, have my actors hat back on. So I'm getting ready to go back to Melbourne to dive into all things Destiny, which is the play I'm doing soon. So kind of in that zone right now and it's feeling really good. I'm so excited.

Melanie Avalon
That is so exciting. When do you leave? And how long will you be there?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so I'm going to be there for a day next week, and then a few days in early May, and then we have proper rehearsals in July. So it's Melbourne Theatre Company, everyone. They're so prestigious, they put a lot of time and care into getting the work right, and so that we can service the work the best we can, and they take care of us. So it just feels, we feel really lucky and privileged, so I'm so excited to spend so much time with this character and the story and with the other actors.

I'm just in my happy place, you know, it's just, I'm so grateful and so happy.

Melanie Avalon
I am so happy for you, I am so proud of you. Have you seen the theater, the venue that it's at?

Barry Conrad
I have seen it. I haven't seen the set yet or anything because it's not up yet. But it's going to be great. Melanie, you got to come. You got to jump on that plane.

Melanie Avalon
I know, I know, I wanna come so bad.

Barry Conrad
you have to see me on Broadway when that happens. So that's happening.

Melanie Avalon
I know. Yes, yes. And listeners, so if any listeners in the summer, our summer, are in Australia, do you have the exact dates of the of the show?

Barry Conrad
So July we start rehearsal so in August the first show to start so get there. So that will be Fall for you guys. I want to say

Melanie Avalon
It's like the end of summer, I think, as the official, I think it starts in September.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be pretty cool.

Melanie Avalon
September 22nd is when our fall starts.

Barry Conrad
It's going to be really, it's going to be not too cold, but it's going to be on the cooler side when you come to, when you come to Melbourne or if you live in Melbourne. Let's come check it out.

Melanie Avalon
It'll be your spring, right? Kind of getting towards spring, yeah.

Barry and I struggle with figuring out this whole season thing. Actually, it doesn't mean... But I don't understand... Okay. I feel like I know my seasons pretty well, but I feel like... Do you know your seasons?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Thanks for watching!

Barry Conrad
I just think of that Carole King song, Winter, Spring, Summer, or Fall, all you've got to do is call. So it's like Winter, Spring, Summer.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, my goodness. I will listen to that when I go to Carol King. Beautiful, the Carol King musical. When are you going to that? And I'm I think in a month or so.

Barry Conrad
You're actually going to love it, Mel. I actually did it here in Australia. It's such a special show.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, yeah, you were in it, right?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, you're gonna love it

Melanie Avalon
Oh my God, I have no idea. I don't even know. I don't think I really know her songs. I mean, I'm sure I do want to hear them because she wrote a lot of songs, right?

Barry Conrad
She wrote a lot of songs i feel like you're gonna be there and you like i don't know anything in the soon as you hear it is like i know this one and this one and it's like a jukebox you love it.

Melanie Avalon
That's what I, yeah. I love, and I've got, yeah, I love those. I just recently saw the Neil Diamond musical.

Barry Conrad
That was... How was that?

Melanie Avalon
It was amazing. It was so great. It's hard to get happier than being with a group of people singing Sweet Caroline.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly.

Melanie Avalon
Such a vibe, you know, such a happy vibe. Congratulations, like this is so exciting. I will be there in spirit. Maybe I'll surprise you, maybe, you know.

Barry Conrad
You never know. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Mel really appreciate the support and encouragement always that you show. Thank you.

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's really exciting too because it's a straight play, like it's no singing, it's like only acting.

Not that that's... What am I saying here? You know, it's like all acting chops that got you the role.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I feel especially proud of this one and also because it's obviously based in South Africa, so very close to home, the content.

Melanie Avalon
Will there be like a trailer online or something? Like, will there be something I can watch?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, they'll just, Melbourne Theatre Company, they capture a lot of content, so they'll definitely be something that you can watch at some point. Can I just watch the...

Melanie Avalon
thing?

Barry Conrad
I don't think, I think there's probably going to be like what, I don't know, do you call it an archival in America when you record shows, theater shows, or you don't?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I guess so. I know what you're talking about.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I don't know if that's gonna be a public thing either way enough about me back to you now. How are you? What's happening with you? How are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
I am good. A fun highlight from today was I received about 17-ish different coffee bags to try to find a coffee bag for my Glow Coffee. It was so many coffee bags. I didn't know they were going to send that many.

So I was like, huh, you know, which one feels the best? What design? There's a lot that goes into product development. It was fun, though. There's one that I do like from the 17 of them. So we shall see.

Barry Conrad
That's super exciting though it did hey Christian so did you know before you mentioned something about having a bit about you in the bag like what did you end up going with okay or can you not say.

Melanie Avalon
we kind of went on a journey with that. I think we're back to including, like we were on the fence about whether or not I should be in any of the branding and content and everything, like should it be completely separate?

But I think we're gonna really focus on launching to my audience and making that a part of it. And then if we need to expand in the future and kind of take some of that out, we can do that. But I think we are gonna have it at launch. I do wanna put on the coffee bag, like my facial splash that you can do with coffee and stuff like that. I think we might put it like on the side to make it a little hidden treasure.

Barry Conrad
On the side, whenever you say on the side melon, it makes me think of when you order. You know, we would do a proverbial break-in. And I'll have that on the side, please. Everything on the side.

Melanie Avalon
It was funny, it's funny how we both thought of something. I thought of having people on the side.

Barry Conrad
That you went straight there? Okay.

Melanie Avalon
There's some like line from some musical or movie that's in my head. I don't know what it, what it is, but it's about that. So that's what popped up.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
No, on the side of the bag.

Barry Conrad
Okay, are you sure about that?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, going to be hidden. Man, on the side can mean so many different things.

Barry Conrad
It actually can on the side. I'll get my food on the side. I've got like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on the side, AKA people. I've got a...

Melanie Avalon
and stuff on the side.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, side hustle, you know. I got my trinkets and stuff on the side of my bed. I've got, you know, my umbrella next to my seat on the side in this amphitheatre in the heat. Right, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, no. Wait, this is making me think of one thing to talk about, and then we can jump into actual fasting related things.

Are you familiar with the longest sentence that is only one word? It's the same word over and over and over, but it's actually a sentence. Tell me what it is. It starts with buffalo. Have you heard this? No. Okay, so it's ready. It's buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. Huh? And I put the pauses in the right place. Buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. What's happening in that sentence? Stuff is happening in that sentence.

Barry Conrad
Okay, how did you get that from on the side? How did you job the...

Melanie Avalon
I was thinking about language and how interesting it is and how things can have different meanings. So like this sentence with the word buffalo means something. It's actually a sentence.

Barry Conrad
For what does it mean?

Melanie Avalon
I'll try to say it one more time, but I don't think it's going to... Okay, so buffalo buffalo, I'm going to add in some words to help you. Some words that don't have to be in there, but they're understood.

Buffalo buffalo, comma, vet, buffalo buffalo buffalo, comma, buffalo, buffalo buffalo.

Barry Conrad
No, I don't know. I have no idea. And I feel like this is obviously a test. Now I feel like.

Melanie Avalon
It's not a test. It took me it took me forever to grasp it.

Okay, so it's Buffalo, Buffalo. It's like Buffalo from Buffalo, New York. Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo. So Buffalo from New York, that Buffalo from New York bully, sorry, Buffalo means bully. Buffalo, they bully Buffalo, Buffalo. So they bully other buffaloes from Buffalo.

Barry Conrad
How am I supposed to get that? How is anyone supposed to guess that? That's so hard.

Melanie Avalon
I think, depending on if you're like an oral or are you an audio learner or a visual? Both. Like for me, so I'd have to like see it written down and I'd have to stare at it for a long time and you would see it with capitalization. So that would help because only Buffalo, New York would be capitalized. And I would have to like really look at it and be like, hmm, what's being said here?

The story of it is that Buffalo from Buffalo, New York, that Buffalo from New York bully, they bully the Buffalo from New York. It's okay. I'm done. That's my that's my that's my sentence today.

Barry Conrad
That is so not what I was. Wasn't a mob bingo guy for today's show, Melanie, that you got to say? Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo.

Melanie Avalon
Well, now you can you can pull it out of your card and impress people like all the time, you know at a cocktail party.

Barry Conrad
And also, yeah, so summer, autumn, winter, spring, that's our Australian seasons. I had to just put that out there so people don't think I'm stupid because Melanie was like, I feel like I know my seasons pretty well, but do you?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, summer, fall, winter, spring. We had a conversation once where you like were confused about the seasons.

Barry Conrad
You blowing up my spot again, I just tried to...

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, I supposed to my bad. Oh, you're right. No, no. You're he completely knows the seasons. Ignore me. That's just that's just

Barry Conrad
just because of the...anyway, let's just talk about the buffalo, blah blah blah.

Melanie Avalon
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to-

Barry Conrad
It's just the tone that you had. You're like, I feel like I know my seasons, but do you know?

Melanie Avalon
She's like, I don't, it's just a question. Oh man, I don't know a lot of things. You know the seasons though. We've established that. We've established that.

Barry Conrad
Which is which is who you think so, right? I'm glad.

Melanie Avalon
So we jump into some fasting stuff

Barry Conrad
Sounds good. Buffalo, buffalo.

Melanie Avalon
buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo okay okay it's gonna haunt you though you're gonna be like laying in bed tonight and you're just gonna be thinking about buffalo buffalo buffalo

Barry Conrad
I think I actually might.

Melanie Avalon
I think you will be. I'm calling it now.

I'm calling it now. Okay. I'm so excited about this study. Yeah. What do you have for us? It is called daily energy expenditure through the human life course. You know, there's this whole idea that our metabolism slows down when we age. Yeah. This study looked at 6,421 subjects. 64% of them were female from 29 countries, aged eight through 95 to see how do people's metabolisms actually change with age.

Barry Conrad
That's so many subjects as well that i can't wait to hear about it.

Melanie Avalon
It was broken down, they found four phases where people's metabolism changes. So the first phase, and maybe you can guess, I'll tell you the age that it is. So the first phase of metabolism for humans is up until you're one years old. What do you think happens to our metabolism during that time? And this is not information that you should know. So if you don't get it right, that's fine.

Barry Conrad
I think after the seasonal talk in the buffalo, I'm like, oh my god.

Melanie Avalon
This is not common knowledge.

Barry Conrad
I think our metabolism is still, I guess, just, you know, being established. Like, you know, what's happening is so early on.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. So think about how much a child grows from when they come out of the womb until they're one. They grow a lot. It's a rapid time of growth.

So their metabolism actually rapidly grows for the first year. And then the second phase is from age one to 20. There's a similar rate of growth during that time. So what I meant is your metabolism keeps increasing from age one to 20. So from zero to one, it's like, bam, like super fast metabolism increase. Then from one to 20, it continues to increase. And then the third phase is from 20 to 60. And this is where a lot of people think, you know, that our metabolism declines. What do you think happens to our metabolism from age 20 to age 60?

Barry Conrad
I think it stabilizes.

Melanie Avalon
look at you, you got it right. Yes, yes. So it's pretty stable.

People's metabolism does not really go down naturally because of age, up until age 60. Even during pregnancy, there's not much of a change. And sex has no effect either. So for men and women, it's pretty similar. And then the fourth phase is people who are over 60. What do you think happens to their metabolism then?

Barry Conrad
I think maybe it slows down.

Melanie Avalon
So it does, but what's really fascinating is only by 0.7, around 0.7, give or minus 0.1%. So between 0.6 to 0.7%, it goes down every year.

Barry Conrad
Which is not much.

Melanie Avalon
Not much yeah so this whole this whole idea that you get old in your metabolism plummets. Nope it goes up until twenty it's pretty stable from twenty to sixty and then it only goes down about point.

Less than one percent per year.

Barry Conrad
Wow. It just debunks everything that we're, again, fed by the masses. Metabolism slows down as soon as you're even an adult, like you're over 25 and you should be worried. It's just crazy.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And what's really interesting about it is because I think people do experience weight gain oftentimes when they, you know, like they'll be in their 40s or 50s and they'll say, Oh, it's just my metabolism slowing.

But really, if you're gaining weight, it's probably not your metabolism slowing. It's probably all the other lifestyle factors affecting your weight. So maybe you're eating more, exercising less, have less muscle mass, but you're, you're like inherent metabolic rate is probably not changing.

Barry Conrad
This is so good, Melanie, to study and just I want everyone to know this because it's just at least gives people a reason not to accept defeat or feel like, you know, their lives are over just because they're adults, you know, you know, should give you peace of mind as well, I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
I think so. I really, I really like it.

And then I also really like that it's only around less than 1% decrease after 60. So I feel like that you can easily combat with, I mean, I don't want to say easily, but losing 1% of your metabolism, less than 1% of your metabolism, like you can really work against that by supporting muscle mass, exercise, you know, fasting, the food choices that you make. So there's a lot of agency here for people, for sure.

Barry Conrad
I agree.

I think exactly what you said, Melanie, about it's not your metabolism or your age necessarily, it's what you're doing, what you're choosing to do with your life, your lifestyle choices. Maybe you're in a sedentary job, maybe you're eating more, maybe you're in a relationship, and how some people are like, we just like to eat together, or I don't have to impress anyone anymore, so you actually stop doing the things you used to do to take care of yourself. It's all these different factors that we actually choose, you know, to do.

Melanie Avalon
Exactly. And I think, I think especially when you're getting older that preserving muscle mass is so, so important. I think being conscious of that throughout your life is really important to have those muscle stores so that if muscle does start declining with age, you've built up this muscle and then really working to maintain that with resistant exercise, you know, moderate to high protein diet. Very important.

So yes, metabolism myths.

Barry Conrad
I'm actually my mind's blowing pun intended like I'm really impressed with the study and like, for example, what you're talking about with metabolism. I thought about my mom who is I want to say 67 and she's like, oh, you know, I'm gaining weight because of my age and whatnot. But now she's actually right into walking Melanie. She's discovered walking and and she's up to a protein because of after my, you know, incessant recommendation and she feels amazing.

She's lost weight. And she does intermittent fasting. So it's not the age. So yeah, there you go. You're exactly right.

Melanie Avalon
And so like in that example, so you said she's 67, right? If we did the average, which is 0.7, so if it went down by 0.7 for seven years, that means her metabolism, because of her age, probably declined 4.9%, so less than 5%.

But there probably is a decline, but it's so important to do things like your, that you've guided her to with the walking and the protein and all the things. Yay for her.

Barry Conrad
So amazing, yeah. What a great find, Melanie.

Melanie Avalon
Shout out to Barry's mom.

Barry Conrad
To Debbie, say shout out to Debbie.

Melanie Avalon
Debbie, shout out to Debbie. Does she listen to your shows ever?

Barry Conrad
She actually does and so she's going to love this. She does? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Aww. Hi Debbie. I don't think my family listens. Really? No. Then again, I've been doing this for like seven years, but I don't... Yeah. Oh no, they should listen. I wouldn't listen if I was them.

Barry Conrad
It's like, we're good, we know that you do it, we don't need to listen to it. Yeah. Amazing study.

Melanie Avalon
You know, it's interesting. I actually read it in two different books that I was reading around the same time. It was in, I think it was in Stephen Gundry's new book, I think. I might be misquoting.

But then I'm reading right now, and this will have happened by the time this airs, but I'm interviewing Ben Azati for his new book. It was in there. So shout out to him. He's amazing. Okay, shall we jump into some questions?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it. Let's jump on in.

Melanie Avalon
First question comes from Susan. How often do you do longer fasts over 24 hours? Question mark.

Barry Conrad
Hmm.

Hey Susan, how's it going?

Hope you're having a good day.

Great question.

And actually this is a question that I do get asked by people because I generally do 20 hours a day and they're asked if I do longer.

So fasting more than 24 hours.

I mean, it's one of those things that does sound a bit intense at first, but once you're practicing IF for a while, it does start to feel like it's more within reach or a natural progression.

That said, I reckon how often you do them, or even if you do them at all, it depends on you.

You don't have to.

For me personally, the max I've ever done is like 36 hours, but only just to experience it just to see what it felt like.

So I'm not someone who does extended fast regularly cause I like to eat every day.

I like my daily eating window.

I love my food, but what did that 36 hour fast do?

I did feel a bit of a reset, not just physically, but mentally.

I felt clear and lighter and more present.

That said, I also kind of prepared for a new, what was coming up.

So I hydrated myself.

I kept that day pretty relaxed.

I didn't do too much.

I definitely didn't go to the gym that day.

I just wanted to experiment on that fast.

I think it's key to be intentional about it.

If you want to do that, we do know that doing longer fast comes with serious benefits for sure.

Stimulating autophagy, improving insulin sensitivity, that mental clarity, that reducing inflammation, but it's not, Susan, that's not something that you have to do to see results with fasting.

So if your current fasting routine is working and if you're sleeping well, you're training well, you're feeling good, then you don't really need to, but if you're curious about it and your body's in a good place, then experimenting slowly.

I reckon could be worth trying.

I just don't think force it because you don't want to approach a fast with a punishment mindset or something like that, or like, I've eaten so much today, so let me not eat for two days or something like that.

You know?

So I think it's more about tuning into your body, giving your body a break.

And honestly, Susan, the way you break a fast is just as important as the actual fast as well.

So if you do do the fasting longer, make sure that you are aware of what works for your digestion well and like your gut.

So for me, for example, I'll have, what did I have?

Like a couple soft boiled eggs with some maybe lean protein, like chickens, some spinach, some mushrooms.

I'm not going to smash a whole bunch of food just to ease back in.

But yeah, it was a powerful experience, but it comes down to why you're doing it and if it works for your body.

Melanie, what about you?

Have you done a longer fast or you just like to have your daily eating window?

What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I'm so similar to you in that I I just really like eating every day and I I really look forward to my meal every night and I really struggle to sleep on an empty stomach. I just it's Yeah, some people I know sleep so well on empty stomachs. I don't.

So the hardest thing for me, I think I actually if the days were longer, I've thought this so many times. So if I could just have a 36 hour day, I think I could you honestly, I think most days I could easily do that. Like I don't think it would be hard. At all, like, no, it definitely wouldn't know. The problem is sleeping on empty stomach. So because the days aren't 36 hours, it means that in order to do a 36 hour fast, I have to sleep through the night on an empty stomach and then wake up the next day and then I don't want to eat during the day. So it kind of mandates that it's at least like a 48 hour fast almost. But the hardest part of that would be the sleeping part.

So if the days were longer, I would do longer ones more often. Because they're not I don't really it happened. Okay, sometimes the way it could happen accidentally would be if I ate at a, you know, eight by one meal a day, and then the next night if I went out to some event and got, you know, stayed out much later than normal, then that might push back everything. So the only way I really I accidentally will do some sometimes fast that are over 24 hours. But it's because I just got back super, super late from something.

Barry Conrad
I've done like, like you said, like accidentally, like if maybe it's like a long shoot or I'm traveling or something, but it's definitely not something that I try to do. I mean, I just wanted to try that 36 hour just to kind of just to see what it felt like.

But I love my food too much. Just do eating every day.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, two thoughts there. So traveling, like that's, that's a time that I did, like when I went to London, I did a really long fast because I just didn't eat before traveling and then didn't eat on the plane, didn't eat that day, didn't eat until that evening. I definitely had a conscious because I went through a period of time where I was like, I really want to do like a 48 hour fast or a three day fast, like I really want to do this. And I still think I do think I would like to at some point, I'd have a moment of acknowledging and not having guilt around.

I like eating every day and like it's working for me, doing my daily intermittent fasting. So I don't want to feel self pressured that I have to do a longer fast or feel guilty for not doing a longer fast. But I do think longer fast can be great for people. But like you said, and I'm glad you said all this, like you want to be really conscious with it. You want to make sure you're not doing it out of, out of guilt or out of, you know, trying to make up for something or because you feel like you have to. If you do a longer fast, I want people to do it. I mean, I think it doesn't really matter what I want, but I think it's helpful for people if they are doing it because they're excited about doing it. And it's like, you know, it's something they're excited about to help their body rather than fear or guilt or anything like that.

It's awesome. So great question, Susan. Shall we go to Adri?

Barry Conrad
Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
All right. Actually, would you like to read this one?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sure. So Adrian asks, have you ever researched the effects of tattoos on health or wellness? And if so, I'd love to hear what you found. Melanie, what do you reckon?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, Barry, have we talked about tattoos? You and I?

Barry Conrad
I don't actually, I actually don't think we have, no, I don't think we have, for real. Do you have tattoos? Take a guess.

Melanie Avalon
I actually, I actually don't know, yes?

Barry Conrad
No.

Melanie Avalon
No?

Barry Conrad
And I've said this forever, I know what I would get if I got a tattoo, but I just keep saying that every year and it doesn't happen. So I don't know if I will. Do you have any tat?

Melanie Avalon
Take a guess. Yes. I do.

Barry Conrad
I knew it. Yes. I knew it. I knew that you did. I just had a feeling. Where is it? What is it?

Melanie Avalon
Actually, a Bible verse reference.

Barry Conrad
What is it? Which one?

Melanie Avalon
Matthew 28 20 I got it when I was 17. I think that's when you can get a tattoo and it was really Kind of spontaneous like my friend got one and she was like you should get I don't know It was my friend who I never thought would get a tattoo got one Shout out.

Well, I don't know if I should nobody will know shout out to Emily and then I was like I'm gonna do it too. So then I went got one and I don't my my parents didn't didn't know until I mean Relatively recently, I think

Barry Conrad
Did you what were you scared of telling them would they be mad do you think?

Melanie Avalon
mad, but I think they... No, they wouldn't have been mad, but I think, I don't know. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
What does the verse say? What is it?

Melanie Avalon
It says, and surely I am with you always to the very end of the age. I always thought it was really poetic.

Barry Conrad
It sounds pretty poetic, but it does.

Melanie Avalon
And then I remember thinking, well, because it was about, you know, my religion. So I was thinking, I was thinking like, you know, if I'm getting a tattoo, I might as well get something about my religion because then what can my parents say?

Barry Conrad
That's a good point.

Melanie Avalon
So, yeah, and what's interesting and why I really like this question from Adri is, I would like to get more tattoos. I'm actually just super concerned about their effects on health and wellness, which is why I haven't don't have more.

Barry Conrad
That makes sense to me, knowing you.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so that was not on my radar back then. I did do some research. There's actually it's really hard to find like solid research on this. I'll tell you what I found.

Okay, so the potential concerns with tattoos tend to be so heavy metal exposure. So many tattoo inks have heavy metals in them like lead, cadmium, chromium, and nickel lymphatic system absorption. So this has definitely been shown in studies. So studies have found the ink particles end up in the lymph nodes. And they can actually stay there indefinitely, which is interesting. The immune system response. So the body does see ink as a foreign substance. So it could trigger for people a low level immune response. Endocrine disruption. So some inks, kind of like the heavy metals, some can have other endocrine disrupting ingredients in them that could be problematic. Let's see. And then okay, skin microbiome disruption. So you're altering the skin barrier and that the microbiome when you're getting a tattoo. So there was a study that came out. Let me see when it came out. So this is this is May 2024. And the title is tattoos as a risk factor for malignant lymphoma, a population based case control study. And they found they concluded that our findings suggest that tattoo exposure was associated with an increased risk of malignant lymphoma. More epidemiological research is urgently needed to establish causality. So they did see a connection between cancer and tattoo ink.

Let's see if there's one more thing here. So a 2016 report from the Australian government's department of health. Hey, hey, they have a have you heard of this organization in Australia, the National Industrial Chemicals Notification and Assessment Scheme. And I see and I guess

Barry Conrad
I have not, but now I do.

Melanie Avalon
Now you do. So they looked at the composition of 49 tattoo inks. They found a mismatch between content and labeling, as well as concerns about some components.

A chemical, a carcinogen called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons were found in a fifth of the samples tested and 83% of the black inks tested. They also found barium, copper, mercury, amines, and various colorants. So I have a lot of thoughts about it, which is, so yes, I think it could definitely be a problem. It could be injecting your body with toxic ingredients and because of how it's in the dermis of the skin and how it relates to the lymph nodes, it's not like you put the toxin, like it's not like you ate the toxin and then excreted it or ate the toxin and your body could deal with it through your gut, which is where the majority of your immune system is. Our body wasn't designed to deal with toxins injected into the skin because that wasn't a possibility. In the evolutionary world, we weren't injecting ink into our skin. So it's a completely different, I think that's what makes it more problematic than even eating these compounds, for example.

That said, I think tattoos can be an incredible way for people to express their identity or put something really meaningful on their body or even just live life with vitality and do things you want to do and die without regrets. Oh, fun fact, because I'm about to interview this incredible woman named Jodi Wellman. She wrote a book called, well, she has like a TED Talk and a whole community around this, but her book is called You Only Die Once. And it's all about living life to the fullest and having meaning and vitality in your life and the concept of a momentum more, remembering death as a way to provide agency to live your life to the fullest now.

In any case, she said, I didn't know this, that out of all the negative emotions, so anger or sadness or guilt, jealousy, regret, do you want to guess which emotion we value the most that's negative and which emotion we dislike the most out of negative ones?

Barry Conrad
I think regret is something that we just like the most. I mean, that you, you don't, no one wants to die with regret, right?

Melanie Avalon
So I guess it's not about liking, I probably said that wrong, it's about which one do we value the most and value the least. So the one that we see that has purpose, I guess, and would have it more compared to the one that we just don't want and we don't see any purpose or we don't... Yeah. Yeah, you told me. People tend to value regret the most because it illuminates things in your life that you value least or dislike the least jealousy, which I completely understand because like what good comes from being jealous, you know?

So all of that to say, back to tattoos, I think they can have a really incredible place in people's lives. So I think you just weigh the cost benefit. Honestly, not that it's probably fine, but if I had to, I think there are worse things you could do. I think the agency that you can take though is try to find or do find, I was actually thinking of getting another tattoo and so I went through this whole process. There are some inks that really brand themselves around being non-toxic and organic and it's hard to know again, especially hearing this study from that Australia company where stuff didn't actually match what was in it, so that's concerning. But definitely, if you are getting one, try to find a tattoo ink brand that is gonna be free of heavy metals or says that they are and work with that. And I was speaking with a tattoo artist and she was able to order whatever ink I wanted.

Barry Conrad
Are you gonna do it, do you think? Do you reckon you'll go through with it? What's your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
not right now. I was kind of feeling it for a while, but I do think I'm going to get another one at some point.

I'm just not sure when I actually think, and this actually might be better because it sounds like the really pigmented ones seem to have more of the problems I would like to get. Have you seen people who have white tattoos?

Barry Conrad
Not in real life, but I've seen it online.

Melanie Avalon
kind of looks like a scar. My friend growing up had one on her wrist and it was white. So maybe I'll get like a white tattoo. That might be cool. Because then you kind of have to know that it's there to see it. I don't know. I'll have to think about it.

How about you? So that was a lot of my tattoo thoughts. What are your tattoo thoughts?

Barry Conrad
No, the study that you brought up, it's pretty scary that if something doesn't match up to what's actually in what's being injected into your skin, that's scary and terrifying. And I do think like what you said, it's so true because it is going to that second layer of skin. It's kind of like pretty much there. That's it, you know, and the high levels of toxicity is not great.

I think at the end of the day, I'm with you, the latter part of it, which is its personal choice. You know, for a lot of people, it can give them meaning, you know, and that significance can maybe outweigh the potential risks. You know, I think it's really important to still do due diligence and research, you know, like, who's the tattoo artist, where they get in the ink from, if you're going to get one. But I do think, you know, if you really want one, I'm not going to prescribe what to do, but I do think life is short and you have to do what brings you life meaning. Just be really careful and mindful and do your research. Yeah, I mean, you said everything about the science and the studies behind it. You've got to watch out because you don't want to be injecting yourself with something that could really harm you in the long run. And this actually made me think about Maori culture in New Zealand because

Melanie Avalon
What culture? What is it?

Barry Conrad
It's M-A-O-R-I and it's pronounced Māori, so they're like the first settlers in New Zealand sort of thing, you know, so the indigenous people in New Zealand and they had tattoos like called mokos and things like that where they would actually carve these tattoos by hand into their faces, into their bodies, and I wonder how they, like, yeah, like didn't have a machine that actually carved like using knives and using tools. So if you Google like Māori, M-A-O-R-I, back in the day and you'll see they have these facial tattoos, tattoos in their body and it was, it's done by hand and in some cultures I believe it still happens that way because it's traditional and I wonder, for example, back in the day what they were using for ink because they, you know, it was way, way back in the day where they didn't have access to what we have now, so I wonder if that is as toxic, was as toxic for their bodies and if that has had an evolutionary effect genetically because a lot of Māori population end up having cancers, which is actually quite an interesting connection.

Yeah, I wonder if that has a connection at all, I wonder.

Melanie Avalon
That's really interesting. Yeah, I think like you re-highlighted again and including with those populations, it's like we just don't, especially reading that study about things mismatching, it's just hard to know what's in that area.

Barry Conrad
ink. The inks that were used by Māori were made of all natural products, burnt wood was used to create black pigments, while the lighter pigments were derived from caterpillars infected with certain types of fungus.

Wowzers.

Melanie Avalon
So that's interesting because to like burnt wood, you know, those burnt compounds are toxic, you know, but it's like, how do they relate to heavy metals or these other ingredients found in inks today? And, you know, it would be hard to know if those had heavy metals or not.

Barry Conrad
It says charcoal, which is burnt wood mixed with oil or liquid from plants. I can imagine that sounds like a concoction of unknown effects back in the day, right?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And it's so interesting, like I was saying, how the ink, it stays in your skin and, you know, indefinitely, and then it's still those, those ink particles are in the lymph nodes throughout your life.

Too late now with my tattoo, but...

Barry Conrad
Question, would you ever or have you ever or do you think you do ever need to remove it?

Melanie Avalon
for removing it do they just color it over it like how do they do that no i wouldn't

Barry Conrad
laser right this laser tattoo tattoo removal like they're laser it off i mean you can you can cover up with another tattoo but some people just like to get it like removed

Melanie Avalon
Let's see, targets that ink particles breaks them down so your body can gradually eliminate them. Oh, okay. And then, so they're cleared away by your immune system over time.

It's a, I wonder, I wonder like the toxicity of breaking it down and actually dealing with all of it compared to that really, really slow drip of just having it there all the time. It's kind of like when people have heavy, like mercury fillings. And, you know, you want to get them out because you're getting slow, low dose exposure to mercury on a very small level throughout your life. When you take them out though, you want to be really careful that you have a dentist who knows how to do it because otherwise you're going to just expose yourself to a massive mercury shock. So I wonder how, you know, I wonder with like ink removal, like what the toxic effect is from that.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because is his name Pete Wentz? Is that his name? The Ariana Grande is, uh, what's his name? Pete Wentz.

Melanie Avalon
I'm so bad with celebrity names.

Barry Conrad
Pete Davidson sorry he has like a whole lot of tattoos and he got them a whole bunch of them removed i wonder how long that took to do he was a cover covered in them.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, for mine, um, I'm just gonna leave it. It's kind of big too. I mean, it's not big, but it could be smaller is the point. If I get another one, it would be small.

Barry Conrad
Where is it? Can I ask?

Melanie Avalon
You can't see it when I have clothes on.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow, that's pretty spicy. Is it like what your lower back or like your, where is it?

Melanie Avalon
I have no comment. Oh, wow. Well, I don't want everybody to know where my dad is. I'll tell you where it is after.

Barry Conrad
I like how quick you were with that. I have no comment.

Melanie Avalon
No comment. Does it even exist? I don't know.

I actually forget that I have it. Like I literally, I don't think I even see it anymore. Does that make sense? Like I don't see it. You know how like the things you're exposed to daily, that's, this is why they say, you know, if you put like a reminder, maybe we've talked about this before, but if you put some like motivational sticky note on your wall or like a motivational poster, if it's in your environment in the same place every day, you stop seeing it because your body, you don't, your body doesn't register it as new information and it just kind of like files it away.

Barry Conrad
That makes sense. But when you when you were saying that and maybe like I don't see it now it even makes me think even more. Where is this tattoo?

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I do. Yeah, I have no comment. I don't see it. My point is if I were to see it on my body, I don't notice it. Maybe that's a better way of.

Barry Conrad
Okay, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Well, that was fun.

Barry Conrad
deep dive into tattoos and Melanie's hidden special mysterious tattoo that she has no comment on.

Melanie Avalon
that may or may not exist. I don't know.

Yeah, this is interesting. I wouldn't expect this though. This says that removing that black ink is the easiest to remove. I would not expect that. Colors like green, blue, and yellow are more stubborn.

Barry Conrad
That is interesting. You'd think that black is the hardest, like kind of like how in suit, you know, is left for too long before it's cleaned.

In a way, it's like it's just way harder to get off. I would have thought black ink for sure.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just looking at mine right now. I don't think I've actually looked at it in a long time. I think it looks more blue now.

Barry Conrad
Maybe you should put up a poll for your followers and say, where do you think my tattoo is?

Melanie Avalon
That's our story.

Barry Conrad
Is that good content? I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
Uh, yeah, I'd be curious what people think. So, okay, well, shall we move back sort of to fasting related things? One last comment.

One of the great things about fasting is it really does help with mitigating toxic exposure. It provides the body time for energy to go not towards digestion, which is so consuming of energy and instead go towards these cellular cleanup processes and detoxification. And yes, so if you are getting a tattoo, make sure you're fasting, not like while you're actually getting a tattoo just in general, it might help. I do know it was way more painful than I thought it would be.

Barry Conrad
Depending where it is right like if it's on that sensitive like bone or like some skins really sensitive to write.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And well, yeah, the location matters. But I just remember thinking I remember thinking people get these all the time. It can't be that painful.

And like you see people with so many tattoos. And I remember she started doing it. And I was like, Oh, this is not fun. This is not

Barry Conrad
But when I talk to me to have like a lot of tattoos and like bro how why do you keep getting more if you keep saying how painful they are and like it's kind of addictive just the feeling it's like pain pleasure thing.

Melanie Avalon
You definitely get an endorphin high from that for sure because it's like being stung by a bee just like constantly.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds awesome. It sounds like a day well spent to me.

Melanie Avalon
But you know what, it might not be that bad now. I feel like I've done a lot more painful things now, like laser hair removal, that's painful. I feel like the more you do, it's, yeah.

Barry Conrad
You do laser, you do that?

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm. It's like the best thing ever.

Barry Conrad
Okay i'm not gonna ask where but why what made you want to do that rather than cuz you're not not a hairy from what i can see very.

Melanie Avalon
put yourself into the mind of a female. You men, you don't have to shave your legs like every day in the shower. Do you know how much time that takes?

And then the idea of never having to shave your legs again. And then men, do men shave their armpits? I don't, do you?

Barry Conrad
some bodybuilder guys that I know they do for like comps and stuff, but it's not something that I know some guys do, but I don't think it's like as common for sure. I don't. Do you shave your

Melanie Avalon
upper lip.

Barry Conrad
Will I shave my face?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, men do shave their face. Okay, wow. That was a blonde moment.

So it's a very, it's a very time consuming process to shave your legs and armpits all the time. And then when you don't have to do that anymore, it's mind blowing. It's amazing.

Barry Conrad
So does it come back, like what's the rate of the return?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, that's the thing. And that's why I'm saying like, I feel like I could tolerate a tattoo better now because you have to go like 16 sessions, or over like 16 months, you go like every six weeks for about 16 months.

And then, and then you do touch ups, like, you do less and less touch ups as time goes on.

Barry Conrad
That sounds like a lot, but also I can see how we cut out a lot of time doing it every day, like shaving.

Melanie Avalon
It's so great. You never have to have the moment of, oh, I forgot to shave my legs. So does it hurt? Does it hurt? Yes. It does. Yes. It's not that bad now that I've done it so much for so long.

Barry Conrad
I'm picturing like zap, zap, zap, like a little gun, like a, is it like that?

Melanie Avalon
It's kind of like the tattoo, it's like getting stung constantly.

Barry Conrad
How long is the session, like how long does it take to do one session?

Melanie Avalon
depends how much you're doing. So probably, I mean, you're probably, I mean, it really depends how much how long you're you're doing. But like doing your legs might take maybe if you're if it's like the first time and you haven't done it before ever. So there's more it might take like 15 minutes.

Maybe your underarms would take like two minutes. Like not long upper lip takes less than a minute.

Barry Conrad
I reckon I'd get ticklish if I did cut underarm laser.

Melanie Avalon
That's interesting because I am ticklish, but it's just like zapping you. So there's more pain than more pain than tickle and it smells like.

Barry Conrad
popcorn. Is it a sense to it once the hair is fried?

Melanie Avalon
This is the hair burning. Yeah, burning. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
there you go yep so that's more painful than tattoos so tattoo should be a breeze the next one

Melanie Avalon
I don't I don't know because I haven't I haven't done tattoos since I was 17. So but if I don't, so it's hard to remember.

But I can kind of remember I think it's probably equal to some of the more painful areas of laser hair removal.

Barry Conrad
There we go. Well, I heard females have a higher threshold, pain threshold too. So is it?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, for sure.

Barry Conrad
She didn't even let me finish that one. She's like, yeah, for sure.

Melanie Avalon
No, that's like scientifically studied. We do. We have to bear children. There you go.

Barry Conrad
Just that one tiny detail. You know we have to be a children.

Melanie Avalon
Just that one little detail, yep. So, okay, now shall we have our proverbial fast-breaking moment?

Barry Conrad
I think we should definitely have that proverbial fast-breaking moment. Let's do it.

Melanie Avalon
So for listeners, the purpose of this portion of the show is because it's not just about the fasting, it's also about the eating window. And that is the time when you are providing the nutrients to your body, the food that helps grow your muscles, your bones, all the things.

I guess people know our daily fasting window. I was going to say that we could say, you know, what we actually fast daily. But yes, I think they're pretty familiar. I do the one meal a day with the dinner.

Barry Conrad
the dinner and I pretty much do the same. I'd say 20, I'd do 24, but it's one meal a day. I don't eat beyond that. So same.

Melanie Avalon
So what restaurant did you pick today?

Barry Conrad
So this week's restaurant, Melanie, we're breaking a fast proverbially with a place that's in the Guinness Book of Records. It's called Sabrina de Boten, and it's the world's oldest restaurant, still running strong in Madrid since- Wait, really? Yes, since 1725. According to the Guinness Book, since 1725, Hemingway used to feast here. The suck- the roast suckling pig is legendary. It's cooked in a wood-fired oven that hasn't gone cold in almost 300 years. That's kind of the energy we're showing up to you with this restaurant, Melanie. So it's pretty incredible.

It was founded by French Chef Boten and his wife. It's got like a narrow cobbled street, you know? So picture that in your head. You can sit at Hemingway's favorite corner table. Some famous guests were Graham Green, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Emer Royalty. The meats are marinated with garlic and olive oil, so there's this delicious smell going through and obviously the oven there hasn't been turned off. So think of all the flavors. Think of all the infusion of flavors.

Melanie Avalon
Think about how many meals have been had here. 300, that's... I wonder how many meals have been had here where they were breaking their fast, like their long fast.

Barry Conrad
I'm sure many because I don't know what for sure some people wouldn't be able to eat all day and they just had their dinner or their lunch or whatever, you know.

Melanie Avalon
And in the past, it was way more common to not be eating 24 seven.

Barry Conrad
Exactly. So they were onto it, you know, they knew what was up.

So this family run, they're still family run after 300 years. They've been running it since the Gonzales family's been running this since 1930s, so they keep things really classic, unpretentious and like not changed too much, which kind of, I can imagine like walking in there would be like going into a time, I'm guessing like a time warp kind of thing.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder if it's haunted.

Barry Conrad
It could be, let's pull up the menu, let's see what we got.

Melanie Avalon
I had to, I switched the language to, they chose to have the UK flag instead of the US flag for English. Oh, really? This is such a great find. You gotta go there sometime.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so this menu is kind of interesting. It doesn't like say lunch dinner. It's just like the menu. So we'll pretend we're all not pretend we're doing dinner. And I guess let's go to each section. Starters. Yeah, starters. Yeah.

So Melanie is a booty salad. Have a look at the starters. And what is catching your eye for your starters?

Melanie Avalon
Is booty salad like pirate booty? Yeah, maybe actually. I'm guessing so.

Oh, they have acorn-fed Iberian ham. Yes. Yeah. I'm excited. Okay. I want, oh, and they have smoked salmon. Yes. Okay. We're at a good place here. So I'm going to get the acorn-fed Iberian ham and smoked salmon, please.

Barry Conrad
Yum. I'm going to try that. I'm going to copy you and go for that smoked salmon because I love it. I love it.

And then I'm going to I'm going to ask you if I can taste the acorn fed over in Ham and I'll get something else. How about? Of course you can. Can I? Yeah. I'll have the chicken and ham croquettos.

Melanie Avalon
Hmm. Oh, do you like anchovies? They have anchovies with peppers. I'm curious. Do you like anchovies?

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I actually love anchovies. Do you like having them?

I like having them on toasted sourdough bread with a spread of cream cheese, fresh anchovies with a bit of pepper and salt. Chef's kiss. It's such a good fast breaker for me sometimes with a Riesling. It's so good.

Melanie Avalon
Yum. So I have a confession. Cool. I don't think I've ever had anchovies.

Barry Conrad
What do you mean you haven't had them?

Melanie Avalon
I don't think I've had them. I don't know when I... I don't think I've had them. We gotta get the anchovies with peppers.

Barry Conrad
Let's do that. And I also highly recommend, I'm guessing Whole Foods definitely has anchovies, so you got to get some.

Melanie Avalon
Try it and I know they're so nutrient dense and they're very low mercury. They're like super low mercury.

Barry Conrad
So the question then is why?

Melanie Avalon
So is it like the entire fish and you eat the entire fish?

Barry Conrad
No, like the intro is like it sort of comes in a glass bottle or like sometimes a can or like a dish and it's just like

Melanie Avalon
But isn't it the entire fish?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, sorry, yes, you have the little mini-fishes, yeah, you have the whole thing.

Melanie Avalon
like you eat the whole thing right like the whole fish but they're little yeah yeah no no you don't you don't have to convince me twice i love whole fish i i love to go to whole foods and like buy a fish and then i go

Barry Conrad
But why haven't you tried it, like what's putting you off?

Melanie Avalon
I think it kind of just fell through the cracks, growing up, it's like, ew, anchovies. I wouldn't have had them. And then I became a carnivorous-loving human being, prancing around the world. And I just never, oh, I wasn't really eating salads then. So I wasn't, I feel like that's how people get exposed to them a lot, is through salads. And then I never, it's never something I thought to go just buy. And then it's not, this is why. It's not usually on a menu by itself. So like I said, it's normally on salads and I'm not ordering salads. That's my explanation.

That makes sense to me. Like, I think this is the first time that I've seen anchovies as its own thing to order.

Barry Conrad
Do you know what I was, can you look up anchovies on sourdough bread for me, please? This is what I know you don't love or eat, really eat bread, but it's honestly so good.

It's so good. It's really good. It's really tasty.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder how it's prepared the anchovies with peppers. What peppers? Like what type of peppers?

Barry Conrad
Do you know what I actually thought the reason was that you haven't had them? It's because a while ago you're like, I don't, I don't like things.

If it smells too fishy, like it over, or if it tastes the whole thing.

Melanie Avalon
What's interesting is I do anticipate that it might have, like, does it taste really fishy?

Barry Conrad
I don't know how to answer that question because it's...

Melanie Avalon
Does it taste like oysters? Does it taste like the ocean? Does it taste like everything wrong with the ocean?

Barry Conrad
It doesn't, okay, oysters is very right about the ocean and also- Incarnate. It doesn't taste too fishy to me anyway. Anyways, we definitely need to get this.

Melanie Avalon
Mm-hmm, you know what we need to be doing we need to be making we need to be making like a document Okay, I'm gonna make a document in my Evernote where every time we have we find something at some restaurant somewhere where it's like Oh, we have to have this specific thing. We'll have a list so I'm gonna add anchovies with peppers at Botan Madrid to the list because we're not gonna remember everything

Barry Conrad
No, it's definitely not.

Melanie Avalon
What is Burgos Black Pudding? Is that blood pudding?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it reminds your blood pudding. I feel like it might be that.

Yeah, it's a sausage made mostly with pork blood, okay, which includes rice as one of its basic ingredients. I don't think you're gonna like that one, Mel. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, I think we're good.

I think, I think we're, I feel good about, about this. And I'm going to have for dessert. I'm going to save some, I'm probably going to have ham for dessert, by the way, because I feel like I'm really going to like that ham.

Barry Conrad
Well you might have you might love the anchovies and peppers I know I know I might for your meat or whatever you're like whatever what would you like for your.

Melanie Avalon
savory dessert.

Barry Conrad
What would you like to get for your... How do you say it? The main event. Okay, we'll go with that one.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, well, do you want a soup? Okay, so this menu is organized really interestingly. It's kind of confusing. Do you want a soup at all? I don't.

Barry Conrad
I don't love gazpacho. I have had some good gazpacho, but

Melanie Avalon
Whoa, wait, but they have poultry broth. That's cool. Oh my, I might get that. Oh my goodness, like a soup I can actually have? That's cool.

Barry Conrad
cool. So I'm guessing, so would that be like almost like a bone broth type vibe? It's just like chicken stock kind of thing? Is that the vibe?

Melanie Avalon
Maybe, I think so, I like that. I'm gonna get that.

Barry Conrad
You know what, I'll do the garlic soup with egg and ham. That sounds pretty good to me.

Melanie Avalon
That sounds good. I do love garlic. Do you like garlic?

Barry Conrad
I do, and I know that you love to have it, especially when you have to talk to people afterwards, right? That's your favorite thing.

Melanie Avalon
love it. My favorite thing.

It's so sad because out of all the foods, it's probably the food that I most love so much that has a visceral, actual negative effect on me the next day because of garlic breath. I love garlic. If you do not get garlic breath, I would drench the entirety of everything I eat in garlic. Every vampire would be on their knees because I would be all the garlic.

Barry Conrad
But there's got to be a solution. I mean, like, come on, someone has to have made like a little gimmick or something to quick, this gets rid of your garlic breath.

Melanie Avalon
There's like chlorophyll, parsley. I think the solution is to not drench things in garlic and just have a little bit, which is sad, but oh well.

Barry Conrad
Unless you're eating at home, right? And you're not going to see someone in like 40 hours.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, this is the thing, so this is the problem. It's not like the issue is when you're actually having it because then you could time control and like, okay, so I'm at home having garlic. It's that it's the next day that it shows up. So you have to like plan for that.

Barry Conrad
Are you sure?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean, that's-

Barry Conrad
That's my experience.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no, no, no, I am certain I'm certain because I have this one spice blend at home that I really like and has garlic in it and if I go a little bit too hard, like too much with it, the next day there is and I'm not anticipating there to be garlic breath the next day, it's like the next day I'm like, Oh, man, like I noticed the garlic breath and then I'm like, Oh, you had too much last night. So it's not like I'm waiting for it to happen.

Barry Conrad
Okay, here's the deal when I when we finally do me and stuff one of the days you can have garlic and then I'll test it the next day like oh, Melanie, what the next day it's like you are.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, that's not going to happen. Nope. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
Okay, what would you like to have for your entree or entrees?

Melanie Avalon
So the way it's organized, we have meat and roasts, we have vegetables, we have eggs, and we have fish. So I guess we can, what are the eggs?

Okay, so eggs are like scrambled eggs as like a thing. Do you think it's any time of the day, scrambled eggs, either of the house or with asparagus or with smoked salmon?

Barry Conrad
Yes, I do think that.

Melanie Avalon
Asparagus is asparagus is another one that has a an effect that happens later. Oh god, like there's some foods and it's like I Find that so interesting

Barry Conrad
So you can basically just take your pick and just mix and match, really. This is fish.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, this restaurant is amazing. I'm thinking in how there's so many just like meats and fishes like by themselves.

Barry Conrad
Look at the fish section. I think you'll be happy. What are Elver's?

Melanie Avalon
Do you see the price?

Barry Conrad
Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh wait, 180, 180 euros?

Barry Conrad
They're shipped to live to Asia where they're grown to maturity and eaten.

Melanie Avalon
They're eels. They're glass eels.

Barry Conrad
They're extremely valuable with nearly five thousand dollars a kilo last year compared to lobster which is worth fifteen dollars that's crazy that's a lot of money.

Melanie Avalon
it's interesting because everything else is in the twenties everything else is in the twenties except for the grilled shrimp in the thirties and then there's a hundred and eighty

Barry Conrad
Okay, Melanie, let's assume that this restaurant graciously wanted us to be there and they said you could have whatever you want, so we don't have to pay for it.

Melanie Avalon
So have you had eel before?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so, nah.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think so either. You know what I think eel is gonna be? I feel like it might be an oyster situation. I don't know.

Barry Conrad
I don't think no cuz an eel is like it seems like it'll be meaty like it's a like you know a thing It's not like a little jello It's like a snake type Thing right an eel. I don't think it's gonna be also also Melanie it's not good.

It's definitely not gonna be like oysters. I don't think

Melanie Avalon
Eel has a unique, slightly sweet, savory flavor. Okay, if you've ever had eel sushi, that's a good example.

Okay, so I think to answer your question, I'm really excited actually by the meats and roasts. There's so many options.

Okay, stewed partridge. I've never had partridge, but I don't want it stewed.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, I feel like this is the type of restaurant, so if they said, we'll love to have you, we'd have to get like one of those four person tables so we can have, I feel like we're going to order up, yeah, and so we can just taste things because there's too much to.

Melanie Avalon
I'll just have everything on the menu. Like all the meats. This is really hard. Grilled enchocote, do you know what that is? I don't, what is it? It's a French term for ribeye.

Barry Conrad
Whoa, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Learn something new every day.

Barry Conrad
at a Spanish restaurant at a Spanish restaurant.

Melanie Avalon
I know, and they have a roast suckling pig. What I'm confused about is, because I always thought a roast suckling pig, I thought it was like the entire pig type situation, but it's a similar price to everything else.

So is it like an entree version of a roast suckling pig? I'm confused.

Barry Conrad
I think it would probably be just a smaller portion, I guess, not the whole pig kind of thing on the plate. There you go.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, it's not like the... Yeah, because I'm picturing that image of the... Yep, yeah. I think I know what I want.

I want so many things. I think the veal fillet, rare, and... Oh, we're going to try the elvers because we want to try eel. And I kind of want the suckling peg. Yeah. Okay. And then I'm going to... For dessert, I'm going to grab something from this list. How about you?

Barry Conrad
So, I'm going to get the mushroom, sirloin, steak with mushrooms, sirloin, steak with mushrooms. It kind of sounds confusing.

So, I'll have that because I love mushrooms and steak, so I'll do that and then I'll also do the roast lamb and I'll also do clam's botan because clams are going to love that.

Melanie Avalon
I don't think I've ever had clams. Really? I don't think so.

And what's crazy is we would always go to Florida growing up and clams are on every single menu everywhere. I don't think I've had them. Are they like scallops? I don't know why I think they're like scallops.

Barry Conrad
They're very, very similar.

Melanie Avalon
Do they taste similar to scallops?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's why I thought I was I'm confused that you didn't I'm surprised you didn't choose clams I'll get some clams and then some grilled shrimp As well. Can I try the clams?

Of course And then also with that because there's vegetables and the shrimp

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I was going to get the shrimp for dessert, but yeah.

Barry Conrad
I'm gonna do some sauteed artichokes with a beer and ham as a side with those main things because you got the pig right so we can share that we can have some of the pig together no eggs.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, and I want the pig also rare. Are you okay with that? Or does pig have to be medium? Are you scared of trichinosis? What are tricha? What is it? Tricha?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that because I don't know because isn't isn't pork meant to be pretty well, like I've never heard of pork being like had rare.

Melanie Avalon
I actually was researching this recently and there was a whole thing where you had to cook pork all the way through, but they actually changed the recommendations and you are allowed to have it less cooked now.

Barry Conrad
Oh man, I don't know. Oh yeah. Okay. I'll give it a go. I'm pretty.

Melanie Avalon
We can get it medium.

Barry Conrad
Rare on that. I made a mine my videographer for banter with BC. He actually went to a restaurant and they had chicken sashimi. I'm like, I'm not brave enough to try that.

I'm not brave enough to try that. But it's a thing.

Melanie Avalon
Do they do anything to it to ensure that it's safe?

Barry Conrad
It's really really fresh obviously and they're they're basing in something I can't remember what he said but I'm like he showed me a photo it just looks like you look really rare just chicken breasts like cut really finely so like wow that's that's brave wow.

Melanie Avalon
That's interesting.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it is interesting, but apparently it's really good.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I would do that. Wow. Okay. And then for our dessert, I was saving the shrimp for dessert.

So I will have pre-ordered, oh, they have garlic shrimp. Probably the grilled shrimp for dessert. And then a repeat of, from the starters, if I like the anchovies or the smoked salmon or the acorn-fed Iberian ham, whatever I really liked the most for dessert. My savory dessert. How about you?

Barry Conrad
I've got three desserts that I'm going to get, and can you take a guess? I reckon you should be able to guess these. I reckon.

Melanie Avalon
Chocolate cake. What is botan cake?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, exactly, a ting.

Melanie Avalon
We don't know what it is, but it's like their thing. Yeah, okay. Oh wait. I'm two for okay Okay, um and then Okay, I feel like I feel like you either liked this or were you a tiramisu fan

Barry Conrad
Yes, you got three for three.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness, I'm bowing.

Barry Conrad
You could literally, you could order for me. It's like, yeah, Barry will have this.

Melanie Avalon
Wait, and we have to tell listeners how many options there are. There's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, There are 12 options and I picked. Oh my god, I am so proud of myself.

Barry Conrad
You should be proud of yourself. So listen, at this point, we, we're getting to know each other's food preferences pretty well at this point, which is really good.

Melanie Avalon
This will be the craziest first time going to a restaurant with somebody that you've never gone to a restaurant before, experience ever, because like the amount of knowledge we will have.

Barry Conrad
And then also if you order something that's out of like off character, like that's not in character. What are you ordering that for?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, what are you doing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what are you doing? That's not you. Why are you ordering everything with the sources not on the side, Mel? What are you doing?

Melanie Avalon
Man, amazing. I actually, I would, I'm really intrigued by the scrambled eggs. I might get that for dessert.

I think I might get scrambled eggs with smoked salmon for dessert. That sounds really cool.

Barry Conrad
That sounds good, but I don't see a beverage selection anywhere. Do you see any?

Melanie Avalon
Is this a dry restaurant for 300 years?

Barry Conrad
to be something to drink. Maybe desserts. I don't see it. Well, that's odd.

That's okay. No, this is actually really surprising because it's a Spanish restaurant, but let's pretend that we get to BYO, so we'll bring a couple bottles one each of something that we like.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect, I will bring some dry farm wines.

Barry Conrad
I'm going to bring some Pinagugio, or actually, no, because we had a Spanish version. I'm going to bring some Tempranillo. Let's do that.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Okay. Well, great find!

Barry Conrad
Thanks.

Melanie Avalon
And they're open Mondays to Sundays. I can't speak non- I can't speak this language. Okay, Mondays to Sundays from one o'clock to eleven thirty. That's pretty good.

In Australia, do you use that sort of time? How do you do time there?

Barry Conrad
Actually, one of the things I dislike probably about Australia is that the opening hours of restaurants are not, it's not that much. It's like dinner's like from maybe five or six to ten. It's not long, you know, whereas in America there's a lot of like late or all night places.

Melanie Avalon
Do you do one through 12 and then again, or do you do 24 hours?

Barry Conrad
Not 20, definitely not 24 hours. Yeah, no way. Maybe.

Melanie Avalon
So you don't call it 23 o'clock. Sorry, I was... We're having two different conversations right now. Do you do 23 o'clock or do you do 11 o'clock?

Barry Conrad
We do 11 o'clock.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, okay. You? Yeah, we do 11 o'clock. This menu though is in, it's in like 23 o'clock. Is so in Spain, do they do it that way, I guess?

Barry Conrad
We're assuming that it does. Let's just go with that.

Melanie Avalon
Who knows? Okay, well, that was an amazing find. Thank you so much, I really wanna go here.

Barry Conrad
Same. And we need that document. We definitely need to put together the things that we want to try, like anchovies and peppers.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Yes. And eels.

Barry Conrad
Elvers, whatever, Elvers.

Melanie Avalon
elvers, but more so than anchovies. Okay, well friends, listeners, I hope you enjoyed today's show.

If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifebodcast.com or you can go to ifebodcast.com. You can submit questions there. These show notes for today's episode will be at ifebodcast.com slash episode 426. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about, so definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad, and we are IF Podcast. And I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
Thank you so much for joining us again this week everyone have an amazing day and we'll catch you next time.

Melanie Avalon
Likewise, I will talk to you next week. Okay, bye. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to the Intramism Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week!

Jun 09

Episode 425 – Cold While Fasting, Fasting For Athletic Performance, Can You Perform At Your Best While Fasting, Alcohol Drinking Or Not, Ramadan Fasting, Daniel Fasting, Warming And Cooling Foods, And More!

Intermittent Fasting: Does It Affect Sports Performance? A Systematic Review⁠

Welcome to Episode 425 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

SHOW NOTES

SPONSORS & DISCOUNTS

HARVEST RIGHT

MAUI NUI

PIQUE FASTING TEAS

Get $100 off with code melanieavalon at ⁠melanieavalon.com/ionlayer.⁠

LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠San Angel Inn Restaurante⁠⁠

Book: ⁠Healing with Whole Foods, Third Edition

STUDIES

⁠Core body temperature, energy expenditure, and epinephrine during fasting, eucaloric feeding, and overfeeding in healthy adult men: evidence for a ceiling effect for human thermogenic response to diet⁠⁠

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 425 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with B.C. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 425 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. Barry, how are you today?

Barry Conrad
Hey Mel hey everyone I'm doing really good it's a jam packed Wednesday for me here in Australia and it's all happening that's one of those days in a good way how about you.

Melanie Avalon
Same, and I'm just reflecting on how when Barry Conrad says jam-packed, like the stuff you go to and do, you set the bar high for doing really cool things, like events and stuff.

Barry Conrad
You do too though, so what do you mean? You do amazing stuff.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like I kind of exist though within a circle of like I go to shows at this theater or this theater like it's a little bit limited. You like go to like all these crazy events and like red carpets.

I mean it's it's very cool. It's very cool.

Barry Conrad
Thanks. Well, tonight, speaking of red carpets, I'm going to the Rolling Stone Australia Awards. Mic drop.

Mic drop. But it's going to be pretty lit. It's going to be like the shot glass you bought me.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, yes, I think I was aware. Well, I guess I knew that Rolling Stones was very international.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so there's obviously in America, Australia, and it's going to be like star studded night, like lots of amazing Australian talent, lots of categories, red carpet, lots of good, you know, drinks, connections, people, it'd be fun. It'd be good.

Melanie Avalon
Super exciting. Can't wait to see all the pictures.

Barry Conrad
What about you? How's your week been? How's your day been? How's everything in your world?

Melanie Avalon
The world is good. I had a very good meeting today. We wrapped up the financial model for the dating app I am working on. Whoa. We've talked about that, right?

Barry Conrad
You mentioned to me ages ago but now you bring it up again I'm like. Almost my mind that you were doing that I can't melody and I can't keep up with all of your projects so tell me again about the stating out.

Melanie Avalon
been working on it a long time. I don't know. I think I've mentioned it on the show. So we're aiming to have it come out hopefully January 2026. Fingers crossed we shall see.

But basically it is a dating app which allows you to filter and sort by and connect depending on your dietary and drink preferences. So it's going to be like any other dating app, the big mainstream dating apps, you know, hinge, bumble, the league, et cetera. And you will be able to search by diet. So.

Barry Conrad
That's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
So people who are like paleo, or keto, or vegan, or carnivore, pescatarian, whatever you are, gluten-free, organic, there's a filter for that. And then also on the drink side of things, we're going to do if you're, you know, like a wine lover or there's this whole sober curious movement, you know, if you're not a drinker.

Because so much of dating and relationships involves food and drinks. They did a study where they looked at the top four different first dates and they all involve food or drink, all of them.

Barry Conrad
I'm not surprised that that makes total sense and it's important if you don't if you're not compatible sure you can have your own situation that's totally fine but if it's going to be so different where you can't. I just put so many parameters around what you can do together that can kind of get in the way maybe what do you think.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, and I also I left out so it's also going to be like food if you're just like a food lover, you know, because that's a whole category people who love food and they're not dietary like restrictions per se. And there's also like a whole world of like junk food lovers, like that's a whole that's a whole community.

Wow. Yeah, I know this because I read the blogs of them. So I guess I'm in the community. I just don't eat any of it. Oh, my goodness. Okay, but to answer your question, great question. Yes. So I think I think people being on the same page about a lot of stuff about food and drink is just so helpful and important for especially like the drinking and then on the food side of things when you're, yeah, choosing restaurants, going out. I mean, I'm all good for people to eat whatever they want to eat. Honestly, like it does not bother me do what you want to do. At the same time, I think if I was ongoing with somebody who was not into any sort of healthy diet, that might be a little bit difficult.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you in the sense that people can eat whatever they want around me, but if I had to be around someone that, for example, was an alcoholic that, or someone that really struggled with alcohol, and then I had to sort of watch that, I don't know, it's not a deal breaker at all, but I do think it just makes it easier to be compatible when you like the same things. So some of the same things anyway.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, and it's really interesting, like, on the drink thing, like, there's the whole sober curious movement, like I said, where I feel like a lot of people are into that now.

Oh, and they'll also have a section for like coffee, you know, so if you're like a coffee lover, you're just, oh, now I'm just brainstorming. I could integrate with my coffee company. Oh my goodness. Vertical. No, that wouldn't be vertical integration. That would be the glow. We're still figuring out our marketing strategies and, you know, user acquisition and such, but at some point we will have a landing page where we can get people, people coming, but it's going to be called craving.

Barry Conrad
I love their name. It's genius for what it is, the kind of app it is.

Melanie Avalon
I think we talked about this. I think you should be like the cover model. Oh my goodness. We could do ads. We could do a photo shoot together. That'd be so funny.

Barry Conrad
Even if you wanted to listen as if you tuned in recently when Mel talked about her mirror technique, remember that, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon
Yes, so we will bring the mirror to set and then you can adopt the mirror technique.

Barry Conrad
I somehow think I wouldn't be as good at it as you, because you have a downpact. You like stroll it out.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like you'd be a natural. All you do is you just pose in the mirror.

Barry Conrad
I think I'd be too self-conscious where I think it helps you get shy to see myself like I can't see myself.

Melanie Avalon
That's so funny. It's going to help. That's so interesting. You're so right. So like it would help me and like help me take good photos and it might do the opposite for you.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's the same thing like when I'm doing yeah, I can't watch myself I just have to be in it and just do it and then just let them decide You know

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Listeners, let us know.

Okay. So this is not the selfie situation to clarify for listeners. This is when somebody's taking your photo. Can you just have the photo be taken or would you rather see yourself in a mirror and pose yourself such as I do?

Barry Conrad
You are the very first person, you in Paris, it's the view of the very first example, you in Paris, that I've heard of, who does this. So that's a first.

I'm going to start a trend. Speaking of wine, by the way, going back to what you were saying about sober curious, I'm not sober curious necessarily, but for the past week, I didn't buy any wine to have around the house because I'm in a new apartment right now. And usually I drink on the daily while I'm cooking to break my fast, which listeners might know. But last week I didn't buy any, just to kind of see how I felt. And interestingly enough, I don't know if I feel any different, which is curious, like I'm curious about Melanie, because a lot of people, you know, have dramatic changes like, oh, I've sleep better, or I feel better in the morning, but I actually don't feel a difference. So that's really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
I, you know, I did a similar, well, it was more intense. I told you I didn't drink for a whole year, right?

Barry Conrad
What?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Why? For the same reason that you did last week. I was like, I'm going to do it for a year. I went a year with no caffeine, no alcohol.

Barry Conrad
Oh wow, that's impressive though.

Melanie Avalon
to see if this thing they speak of where they're like, cut out all the stuff, you'll feel amazing. So I was like, I'm going to try that. And I didn't feel any different. I did not feel, I felt less amazing by the end.

And then I got kind of scared because I was like, Oh, I've been going so long without caffeine and alcohol. Like, you know, how do I bring it back now that I've been so long without it? So literally I made my new year's resolution was to start drinking again.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. So when you had that first sip of wine or coffee after that, like what went through your body or your mind? Like, were you waiting for like a reaction? What happened?

Melanie Avalon
So what's interesting for coffee, I never, I didn't bring it back. I didn't bring back it. I did not bring back a ton of it. I brought back, I just have a little bit every morning.

That's like my, my sweet spot for the wine. I don't, you know what? I actually don't remember to answer your question about feeling different or not. I know what the answer is for me, which is that if I'm doing all my stuff, which is the organic wine, you know, lower alcohol, lower sugar, having my z-biotics, probiotic, pre-alcohol drink, doing all my things, I'm just genuinely happier with wine in my life. I think for me, it's like, it's like a ritual. I, you know, it's like a tasting experience. It like brings all good things to my life and my experience. So yes, but if I were drinking like normal stuff, not with all the stuff, I would, I would definitely feel different drinking or not drinking, I think. You, I think you're, I think you're just a very, very good alcohol processor, like genetically. I thought you were going to say.

Barry Conrad
I think you're just a really good alcoholic, I'm not an alcoholic, Melanie, no alcohol, but yeah, I think so too, which is really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's really interesting that you don't feel any different.

Barry Conrad
Because my father, for example, he really struggled and struggles with alcohol, and it has been really awful. So it's just interesting that genetically I'm able to process it in a way different way. So that's really, I'm fascinated by that.

I want to look more into it. Because I am mindful that I don't want to have any excess, but it doesn't impact my life, my ability to focus, because my ability to work the way I feel, the way I train, and my bloods as well, my blood work. So do I keep down that road, or do I just pull back to prevent future issues?

Melanie Avalon
I'll let you know. Honestly, from all the research I've done, I do think there are health benefits to, especially if it's wine, having daily wine, like longevity wise, heart health wise, all the things. It's similar to you because there is in my family, there are people who struggle with, not my immediate, like my extended family, there are people who struggle with alcohol and it is really interesting how some people really fall into that addiction pattern and others don't. Like for me, I have zero, I don't have, I have zero fear of that happening to me. So yeah, it's really interesting.

And I will say, oh, so I'm gonna share this with listeners. I had always been talking, I've been talking a lot about ion layer and AD patches, which I was wearing those when I would go out and or the next day. It's your body's master metabolic enzyme that is involved in like basically everything that you do when it gets depleted by drinking. So it always really helped me with, especially when I have like a night out with a lot of drinks. Now they have a glutathione patch as well. Oh my goodness, my protocol now, game changer, it is insane. I've realized now when I go out, this is so crazy, now when I go out and I drink much more than I do normally, I actually feel better the next day than most days because I do this protocol and the only time I do the protocol is when I'm going out. So I wear the glutathione patch while going out and then the next day I wear the NAD patch, it's shocking, it's amazing.

Barry Conrad
I can't wait to try all of these things all of these tax I can't when I moved to America can't wait to do it try it all.

Melanie Avalon
It's, I know, we got to get you stocked up on Ion Layer because it's amazing. So listeners, you can go to melonyavalon.com slash Ion Layer, use the code Melanieavalon, that will get you $100 off. So definitely try that.

Should we jump into some things?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump in.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study to start us off with. And today, I'm bringing a study called intermittent fasting, does it affect sports performance? I was really excited about this, because as you know, I train a lot, love all this. And it was published in the journal nutrients back in February 2024.

And it's sort of like a systematic review led by researchers from the University of Milan in Italy. And it dives into something we get asked about all the time, can you still perform at your best, whether in the gym, on the field, wherever you train, while intermittent fasting. So this wasn't, it wasn't like a small one off study, they sort of they actually pulled together from 25 different studies, the data. So we're talking about like a pretty comprehensive look at how intermittent fasting impacts a whole range of athletic markers. So think strength, endurance, power output, aerobic capacity, even recovery. And here's what I found super interesting. Now, across the board, results showed that intermittent fasting doesn't negatively affect sports performance. And in some cases, it even even enhanced it.

So let's get into that. So one of the most common fasting styles or protocols that came up in this was the 16, eight method. And so for newcomers, anyone listening for the first time where you're new to intermittent fasting, that means 16 hours fasting, eight hours eating, which a lot of you already know. So with athletes who followed this, researchers found no significant decrease in strength or endurance performance. And if anything, a lot of them actually improve their body composition, which really excited me because I was like reading like, please not be bad. And this basically means more lean muscle, less fat, who doesn't want that, not me.

And another big takeaway was how intermittent fasting seemed to improve metabolic efficiency. So what I mean by that for anyone who doesn't know is the body sort of becomes better at using like a fat for energy, especially during the fasting window, which means athletes aren't constantly relying on quick carbs to get through a workout. And over time, like that shift can sort of lead to more more stability in your energy, improved insulin sensitivity, even enhanced recovery markers, which is massive because recovery is so important.

And the only difference though, that I found was where things got more nuanced was during the like the Ramadan style fasting. Side of things. And that means like sort of dry fasting during the day and dry fasting is like no food, no water. That's pretty intense. And in some of the cases, especially with those elite athletes, the performance did dip during that Ramadan style situation. But the study points out that it wasn't necessarily the fasting that caused that issue. It was often like a mix of hydration, sleep, depletion, inconsistent training because of not feeling strong because of the fasting.

So I guess it's the context, you know, so one of the coolest parts of me about this was that certain faster athletes actually improve their short bursts, high intensity performance.

Barry Conrad
So we're talking things like sprints, which I love hill sprints, and I've said that before. So sprints, hit training, jumps, that kind of thing, which actually totally debunks and or challenges the idea that, you know, you have to be quote unquote constantly fed, constantly eating to be explosive or, or powerful. It's just the more we delve into the research, it's just not the case. So of course, like, you still need proper nutrition, you still need recovery, hydration, but fasting when done right, it doesn't have to hold you back.

And this sort of talks about that might even give you that edge. So the researchers at the end, they did say, though, there's a lot more work to be done, especially with the longer term studies and standardized protocols. But the early signs look pretty, pretty promising, especially if you're someone who's fasting on the regular and wondering if you leave in the gains on the table, you're not leaving the gains on the table. So science is showing that we can fast and train and perform and recover like a bus. So Mel, what do you I'd love to hear your thoughts. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
I love it so much. And you said when you sat down to read it, what did you think it was going to say?

Barry Conrad
I wasn't worried, but there's always something in the back of my mind like I don't want any new research to come out saying fasting is going to inhibit your performance because I'm so active and so I was glad that these are the findings.

Melanie Avalon
No, that's amazing. I love it.

It's so interesting because people just have... I feel like still they're really, really concerned and think that it really will impede performance and it's just not, you know, seemingly what the people's experience shows, what the studies show. I'm glad that you drew attention to the Ramadan thing because, you know, I feel like that's completely different. So like people not drinking water, like just like dry fasting. Yeah, I would not even... I would not even look at that for athletic performance because that's such a huge factor. Like electrolyte balance and hydration is so important. And then like you said, it's also affecting other lifestyle factors as well.

Amazing. 25 studies.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. So I thought it was really comprehensive. And yeah, I do think I agree with what you said as well.

The Ramada, I feel like it's a different category. Do you think like it's not even, it's not really intermittent fasting.

Melanie Avalon
So, I mean, it is, it is intermittent fasting because I mean, they don't eat during daylight hours, right? So they're getting, I don't, I don't know how long when it's done.

And I don't like, when is it, when is Ramadan?

Barry Conrad
I wanna say, hold on, I don't wanna get this wrong.

Melanie Avalon
February in the U.S. Okay, so like in February, in 2025, it's Friday, February 28th through Saturday, March 29th. Okay.

What I'm trying to envision, what's interesting about it, oh, this is interesting. Oh, I find this interesting. I never thought about this. So, you know, it's a religious event, but the dates are set. So that means depending on where you are, like where you live, it's going to depend on how many daylight hours you have.

Barry Conrad
That is interesting.

Melanie Avalon
So, you know, cause like here in the U S that's a little bit shorter days still. I mean, they're getting days are getting longer, but like for you guys, cause what season is it again now for you?

I know we go through this every time.

Barry Conrad
I want to say it. Okay. It's not, I think it's autumn slash fall. I want to say it's not spring because we talked about this last time. It's like, it's not spring. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
So presumably based on where you are, not even just location because of the season, but also the latitude, like so like how far you are from the equator.

Barry Conrad
Because I know from Melanie, when I used to live in South Africa, there's a lot of Muslim population there. And one of my mom's best friends, one of our best family friends, she married into a Muslim family, and we'd go over during Ramadan so we could eat all the food at night.

But basically, the point is, as soon as the sun went down, that's when they would eat. So there wasn't a set time on the clock. It's just usually somewhere between six and eight, it would be where they can eat and drink.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So like if you lived, for example, at the polls, you would have, you know, that would come, that would drastically affect the daylight hours.

Barry Conrad
Do you think in that case, so like Norway and places like that, would they have to like maybe put a time on it then maybe like

Melanie Avalon
I don't know, like, do they adjust? I don't, I mean, how would they adjust though? Because like, isn't the rules about the light?

Barry Conrad
They'd probably never break their fast data, though. I don't know. Actually, now I want to find out.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, so I looked it up. Ramanan fasting can be adjusted for Muslims living in regions where daylight hours are extremely long or short, such as near the Arctic or Antarctic circles, where the sun may not set or rise for days or even weeks. Islamic scholars and councils have addressed this unique situation with practical solutions. So here are some approaches.

They might follow the nearest moderate location, so like the closest city that has a clear distinction between day and night, or follow Mecca's timetable. Hmm, that makes sense. Or follow a 24-hour clock, like you were saying, using a set number of hours. So interesting. I can't believe I never thought about this before.

Barry Conrad
That actually is interesting. Now we know, so follow near a city or, okay.

Melanie Avalon
But you know what's interesting also? So this is for like the polls.

So, but for people who there is a distinct difference between day and night, but it's like you mentioned, like Norway or something, I feel like in that situation, they're just getting more or less daytime hours, but it wouldn't be so extreme that they might do a different protocol. So basically, I mean, I don't know, but it sounds like maybe, I feel like there would be subtle differences and the length of fast based on where you live.

Barry Conrad
I agree, because if people had for the polls, like you were saying, or like Norway and stuff like that, they would have to, they'd probably be more uniformed with their like structured in their fasting. Like from this time to this time, we'll just do it because it doesn't get dark.

Whereas other people will wait. And it would probably change quite like even in the daily. Yeah, interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Wow. I'm never going to look at Ramadan fasting the same way again. I'm just really surprised that I've never thought about this before, and I've been talking about this for so many years.

Barry Conrad
I do know, based on mates I've had who are Muslim and they do Ramadan, they always have no energy. It's just because you can't drink water, and that's a major thing. I think food is one thing, but being dehydrated and then having to work and things like that, that's pretty intense.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Yeah. I know people will do conscious dry fast and they, and it can have other benefits to it in general though. And that's a long time to be doing that. It's like a month.

Barry Conrad
It's a whole lot and also I wonder how people who practice Ramadan fasting, how it affects their bodies over the long term, doing that all the time, you know, because it's like this massive depletion and then like, I'm sure some of them probably, I'm guessing over eat or overdo it when they get back to eating, whereas some probably don't. But I wonder if it has any impact on their long term health, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Well, it's interesting.

I could see how it could be a good thing or it could be a catalyst for fasting and making good dietary choices. And then I could see how for a lot of people, it might be like, oh, the thing they are required to do one month a year. And then they're just making up for it the rest of the time, which is like 11 months not fasting and one month fasting.

Barry Conrad
Have you ever done, I know you've talked about like, you know, you raised Christian and whatnot, did you ever fast during like for religious reasons in your family? Did they ever get into that?

Melanie Avalon
not fasting. So it's interesting. So I have two memories associated. One is Lent. So that's kind of like the Christian equivalent, but you can quote fast from anything. So that Lent is people often give up something for Lent.

I don't know if I ever actually, I might have given up like candy or something at some point. I do remember though, I remember one of my friends when I was in middle school was doing a fast. It's so interesting to think how far you've come and perspective and mindset because I was much younger then. So it's a different situation. But I know she was doing like a, was it only, was it a 24 hour fast? It's probably like a 36 hour fast. I don't know. Might have been a 24 hour fast. I just remember like it was a whole thing. And that's the only memory I have about fasting related to religion that was for her church. So I don't think I did. Did you?

Barry Conrad
You know what, not without food or water, but what I do remember is like, have you heard of the Daniel fast or whatever that is?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, you eat like what Daniel ate when he was in the lion's den, assuming he was there because we recently did an episode, and I know Barry listened to it, on the Mindblown podcast about biblical misconceptions. So many of those blew my mind when I learned them.

Yeah. So which ones blew your mind the most?

Barry Conrad
Well, the fact that it's the best selling book of all time, for some reason in my head, I didn't put together that it gets sold. It doesn't just come from nowhere.

So who's getting that money? A, B, B, the Jonah and the whale as well. It's actually meant to be a big fish, not a whale, technically.

Melanie Avalon
It never says whale, it says big fish, which could have been a whale, they could have been calling it that, or it could have not been a whale.

Barry Conrad
the three wise men there wasn't technically there weren't three oh yeah that was come on really

Melanie Avalon
Because because there were three gifts so that that's why we think that no no they name three gifts.

Barry Conrad
But what if there were 10 people or one person?

Melanie Avalon
Well, what if there were other gifts too? And Mary Magdalene, they never actually said she was a prostitute. I definitely thought it said that.

Barry Conrad
Sam, going back to what you said, Mel, assuming that what we're talking about, the Daniel diet, assuming he was in the lion's den and he actually ate whatever it was, like, it was a specific diet. Like, I've done that for a week and that's meant to be this hardcore thing, which is so easy to do now, but I thought that was, like, so meaningful at the time. Like, yay, I'm doing something for God, you know, eating this.

Melanie Avalon
It's like a, it's like a vegan fast, right? Like, isn't it very like vegetables and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I, I don't do that. I'm familiar with it though. I did not, I did not do it though. There you go.

Very interesting. Okay. Well, thank you for finding the study. Take away fasting for athletic performance. Yes. It's support. So it helps muscle growth, helps actual performance, body composition. Just make sure you're, you know, drinking, getting your electrolytes, sleeping. Yes. Really important. Shall we jump into some questions for today?

Barry Conrad
We should. Let's do it.

So, Carolina from Facebook, she asks, why am I feeling so cold when I extend my fast? I normally eat three meals in an eight hour window, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. every day. I stay under 50 grams of carbs and prioritize protein and fat. I'm very active every day. Resistance training, five days per week. Walk 13K steps every day. No need to lose weight. I'm in calorie maintenance. My goal is body re-composition. I like the idea of having one 800 calorie meal on Mondays for health reasons and digestive rest. But when I fast to delay my breakfast, I'm literally freezing. I have to have a full blast heater on. Is this normal? Melanie, what do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Okay. So I love this question. And what could possibly be going on here?

I did some research and so people's core body temperature can vary pretty individually. And there tends to be, there's this concept of a human thrifty phenotype. I'm not necessarily saying that I know that Carolina, that this is the case for you. But that said, basically, they've done studies on people's energy expenditures, like how much energy and heat their body is producing and how that relates to core body temperature. And it seems that some people have a thrifty phenotype. And when they have that, their core body temperature drops more while fasting compared to people who aren't that phenotype. And then on the flip side, that same phenotype where they get colder while fasting, they also don't get as hot when overeating. And what's actually going on with the neurotransmitters and hormones is that people who have this thrifty phenotype, they basically don't release as much adrenaline and epinephrine during the fast. So it could be genetic. It could be completely normal that, yes, for you when you fast, your body just gets colder. It doesn't try to, or it more actively tries to preserve fat in the fasted state. That's one option. And I think that applies to a lot of people. Another thing is you could be over fasting or overdoing it. And this is just a signal to your body that it's too much. A benefit, kind of like a good thing about this is lower core body temperature in general does correlate to longevity. So calorie restriction, it has been the one thing consistently shown to promote longevity in all species. It also correlates to lower body temperature and lower body temperature tends to correlate to longevity. So not that it's like a great thing to be really cold feeling, but if you are cold, it might be more beneficial for longevity. So that's an upside. Something you could do. So there's some options here. There are some foods that you can eat. And I have found personally that they are very thermogenic and they actually keep me warm. If you've tried adding MCT oil to your food, that is so thermogenic. For me, it makes me really hot. So you might find that adding that to your meals can help you fast longer. If being too cold is impeding you from fasting, you might find, can find that adding MCT oil to your meals will keep your body temperature warmer. You also might want to try doing not the whole low carb diet thing and fasting, you know, doing the fasting hours that you want, but having carbs in your eating window. A lot of people when they do like a ketogenic diet or a low carb diet, they get cold from that diet. So yeah, that's definitely an option to play around with is try having more carbs in your diet. If you're worried about fat gain and weight gain and anything like that, I really want to encourage people that when you're eating whole foods, adding back in carbs after being low carb, as long as you don't also keep all the fats, you actually might find that you actually lose weight from that or see beneficial effects and energy,

Melanie Avalon
body composition, warmth, all the things. So that's something you could try is make a switcheroo and do a more higher carb, lower fat approach.

Yeah, but basically it comes down to yes, it is normal to get cold while fasting could be a genetic phenotype and that's just the way it is and not something you can change or it could be that you're over fasting either way, adding in, you know, carbs or MCT oil. Also, you can add in lots of like spices to your food. Those can have a heat, a heating effect. Actually, I might be a little bit wary about the spices because some people actually eat, add those to their meals because it does increase the temperature, but then they have a response to it where they're bought, the body adapts to cooling. It's kind of like how in hot cultures, they'll eat spicy food to stay cooler. So actually, maybe don't listen to me on that. I do know with the MCT oil though that, I mean, that makes me really, really warm. So what are your thoughts, Barry? And have you ever experimented with MCT oil?

Barry Conrad
I actually have not experimented with MCT oil in my food yet. Do you think it's something that I should experiment with?

Melanie Avalon
Just if, just, I mean, no, just if you want, just if you want, the reason I don't like it is how hot it makes me, honestly.

But it's basically a, especially if you get the C8 or C10 version, which is the most easily, like ketogenic, easily used fat compared to the more full spectrum. If you get just the C8 version, but basically it is a fat that kind of functions more like a carb because it is instantly shuttled to the liver, used for energy. It doesn't easily get stored as fat and it's very, it easily becomes ketones. It's very metabolism stroking, making you, you know, warm and thermogenic and all that. Yeah, it's an interesting food.

Barry Conrad
I have had some in my coffee.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so you've had it.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, but I haven't experienced how it feels putting it with my food. Yeah, in general, I'd get pretty hot when I eat, which is kind of frustrating because maybe I'm just eating so intensely, but I get really hot.

What I thought, I mean, you hit everything so amazingly, Mel. The only thing that did cross my mind was when you said that maybe she isn't eating enough carbs, like the fact that, Carolina, you're training five times a week, 13,000 steps a day, like your body sounds like it's already efficient, and there's not a whole lot of extra body fat there for insulation, so you're probably going to feel that chill more. That's the only thing that I thought, which you mentioned. So maybe a tweak, having some more carbs in there. I don't actually get cold when, I don't really get cold when I fast, but you experience that, Mel, called the cold fasting effect.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. When I was low carb, I was much colder. Now, honestly, it really depends on the meal I had for my one meal a day. It is, it's kind of shocking how much it affects me.

So if I have, it kind of goes back to like the, the warming and the cooling foods, especially in like traditional Chinese medicine or Ayurvedic, I actually really find that that applies to me. So if I have a meal of, you know, just lean fish for my protein, I'll be colder the next day compared to if I have a meal with lots of like chicken or steak. Even if I eat the same amount of actual protein, the, the warming proteins really keep me warmer the next day and the colder ones I'm colder the next day.

Barry Conrad
That's really interesting.

Melanie Avalon
in the past I've done where I would just have, like I wouldn't have protein for like a no protein day. And that would make me really cold the next day.

Yeah, the foods you're eating can really, really affect you. But if I had that MCT oil, yeah. Actually, one of the reasons I kind of dread summer is because I feel like I have less freedom in what I can eat because I really don't like being hot. And so I feel like in the summer I have to be more cognizant of meal choices that won't make me really like too hot the next day.

Why are you laughing?

Barry Conrad
I've just never heard of someone say, like, I've never experienced, like, okay, the food that I ate yesterday, this is going to make me feel hot tomorrow, or it's going to make me feel colder tomorrow. That's amazing.

I've never thought of it in that way or experienced that, but maybe now that you've mentioned this, maybe I should try to pay attention to, like, have an experiment and see if I do feel different.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So, and it will especially, so, so some comments, um, it's a little bit different. Like it is the next day for me, but I eat my meal really late. And then, so the next day isn't even necessarily that long into the fast because I think I eat and I go to bed. But all of that said, because I'm so like, I, I'm so conscious and eat within a certain collection of foods. That's pretty similar.

Like I, I, I always crave a certain protein. So basically it's a chicken night or it's just a fish night or it's a steak night. So it's really easy for me to experiment and notice. It's yeah, it's easier for me to notice. So I'd be really curious if you do notice a difference, but you might always have, do you pretty much always have like chicken or steak or.

Barry Conrad
I have a lot of I have a lot of ground beef, steak, chicken, but oftentimes, like, I'll combine like how you said you like to have you crave one type of protein. I'll have smoked salmon to start, for example, or chicken wings to start, and then I'll also have beef. So I don't I often like combine protein. It's never just one.

So that's probably why I can't really I can't really notice because I'm always combining.

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's interesting is I always combine because I always have my scallops. So there's always a fish there, but then sometimes I have just chicken or steak. I'd be curious. Okay. So maybe notice if you have, if there's ever a day that you only eat seafood, see if you notice that you're not as hot.

Okay. There's this book. Okay. If, if friends are interested in this, oh my goodness, I love this book. It's very famous in the world of traditional Chinese medicine. It's called healing with whole foods. It is the, oh, with more than 600,000 copies sold. Okay. It is the biggest Bible of information about every food seen through the lens of traditional Chinese medicine and like yin yang balance. And so it has like, it literally has every food ever. It's crazy. It's so big. It's heavy. You could use it as a weight at the gym and each food, it'll say like, is this warming or cooling? And like, what, like, what parts of your bot, like what organs does it benefit? I love this book. Mine's like all, like all marked up with like notes and highlighters and stickies and that's a great book.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, that sounds interesting. I definitely want to dive more into this because I know when I have spices, I get hotter, spicier foods, but that seems obvious.

But I want to try this fish-only day, chicken-only day, and see if it impacts how I feel.

Melanie Avalon
Here's something important, and I kind of said it earlier, but to clarify about the spices. So this is just me thinking it through in real time. When you eat a lot of protein or meat, A, protein is the most thermogenic macronutrient. And what that means is about 30% of the calories just get burned off as heat by processing the protein.

But the long-term effects of eating that protein, it's going to actually keep you warm and keep giving you heat because it's like a slow digestion process, it's thermogenic, et cetera, compared to spices. Where spices are non-caloric, they're not even providing, I mean, what, they might have like a calorie, but they're barely providing any calories, so they're not having a thermogenic effect from that perspective, but they can be very, you know, heating, like create the feeling of heat. But I think that ends up having the opposite effect, like I was saying, where your body gets good at cooling yourself down. So the longer-term effects of the spices might actually make your body cooler in the future, like not at the moment of eating it, because at the moment of eating it, eating either of these things, you're going to be probably feeling warm, but like the long-term effects, like eating a high protein meal is going to make you warmer later, but eating hot spices might make you cooler later.

Barry Conrad
There you go. Carolina, we hope that you- we hope that helped. That was- Melanie said it all. That was amazing.

Also, Melanie, I had to- you're like, why are you laughing? What do you say? I'm gonna be hotter tomorrow or cooler tomorrow. There was just- I've just never heard that. That's why I was laughing. It wasn't- yeah.

Melanie Avalon
You're going to start notice, you're going to notice.

Barry Conrad
And, yeah, you don't like somewhere. I know that. You don't like being hot.

Melanie Avalon
No, you know what's funny is within the past, I think a couple days, three, maybe three, I think three different, I got emails about three different concerts, all of which I would like to go to. They're all in ampli theaters outside in the middle of the summer in Georgia.

I don't understand who, why do people enjoy this? I'm so confused. Somebody please explain to me.

Barry Conrad
Melanie, a lot of people love to be hot and they love summer. Like, I'm sure you know that these people, like a lot of people like that.

Melanie Avalon
It's like so mind blowing to me, it's so crazy. And so I get these, I'm like, oh, I want to go to Mumford and Sons or I want to go to Kesha, but it's like in the summer outside.

Barry Conrad
Okay, but hold on, what if, because I'm guessing the show is like at night, so it would probably cool down.

Melanie Avalon
It doesn't matter. I was Googling. I was like, what time is it going to be?

I was like, what temperature is it going to be at seven o'clock in August in Georgia? And it could, it can literally still be like 80 degrees. I was like, I can't, this is ridiculous.

Barry Conrad
That's not even that hard. That's like 26 degrees Celsius. That's like the limit for me.

Melanie Avalon
Did you look up the right number? That is hot. That's too hot to be like, am I get up? Like my concert get up? I cannot.

Barry Conrad
What if you brought like an umbrella? That might sound intense, but a lot of people have umbrellas for the sun.

Melanie Avalon
it's already covered. It's like covered amphitheaters.

Barry Conrad
That's even better. You could do it. Like, why, why don't I try? Go, go.

Melanie Avalon
in another life. Why don't they do these in the winter outside? That's when I'm there. I'd show up for that.

Barry Conrad
Because you know what? In the winter, no singer, singers inside baseball want to sing in the cold. It's just the worst for your voice.

Melanie Avalon
I'd be there. Okay. Then how about the fall?

Barry Conrad
If there's humidity, it's easier to sing in. But again, what's good for you, the singers is not good for necessarily some audience members, aka Melanie Evelon.

Melanie Avalon
You know what's good for everybody? What? Singing inside.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny.

Melanie Avalon
solves all the problems.

Barry Conrad
What it's so funny that you said you googled what temperature it could be.

Melanie Avalon
I did. I was, I really wanted to buy these tickets. And I was like, I just can't. And then what if it's raining?

Barry Conrad
You couldn't do it? Nope.

What would happen? Okay. So if you were there and it started raining, what would, how, what would go through your mind? Would you just hate that experience or would you deal with it?

Melanie Avalon
No, I would I would I mean, and it's covered so but it's just my hair would not be nice. You know what? I really love climate control. I'm just it's so great like inside climate control.

Barry Conrad
Have you, Tangent, but have you watched a show called Paradise? What happens?

Melanie Avalon
Is it not paradise? Is it in paradise, but it's not paradise?

Barry Conrad
Basically what you're saying makes me think of the show because long story short, these people have to get on this these flights and go to this like created manufactured world because there's going to be a catastrophe out in the real world. And the president takes like, I don't know, 10,000 people to this built world. And like it's everything's controlled like this, the weather and everything. So it made me think of that.

So if you could control, it's, it's basically in a mountain, they've created this world that looks exactly like normal city, but it's not. There's no sky, but people think there's a sky. It's all controlled. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
I know this is so contrary to like our modern climate controlled everything is not good for us hermetically like we're not exposed to stressors and things like that but at the same time that's why I keep my air very cold inside I do sauna I do cryotherapy so I'm like it's like say it's like do as I I don't know.

Barry Conrad
Do as I say and as I do.

Melanie Avalon
But also, I mean, you can do it as I do. If you do it as I do, make sure you do all the other things too. Make sure you combat. One thing we don't want is to just exist in the perfect temperature all the time. That's not good for us.

Yeah, it's not good. We need those extreme temperatures and such. I just don't want the extreme temperatures while I'm seeing abandoned, singing and dressed up. That's why I don't want the extreme temperatures. I want it when I'm in a sauna, not singing or not dancing and such.

Barry Conrad
Okay. So if you had to choose between one of those concerts that you might, you're on the fence about maybe booking, which one will you go?

Melanie Avalon
I really wanted to go to Mumford and Sons because my sister's going and it would be a whole thing. Do it, do it, do it, do it.

Avril Lavigne, Katy Perry, oh, I think Katy Perry might be indoors, I don't know. Shall we break our fast, reverbially?

Barry Conrad
Let's break it proverbially. What do you got for us, Mel?

Melanie Avalon
So the restaurant I'm picking for today's restaurant, and the purpose of this segment of the show is because what, like we've been talking about, this whole conversation, what you eat and having the eating period is actually very, very important with your fasting because you get a lot of benefits from the fasting and you also need the eating period to nourish your body, grow that muscle, all the things. So I like picking restaurants from Disney World.

I'm picking this one today in honor of your story, Barry, that you posted, was it yesterday when the guy in the cab did not know about he had never been to a Mexican restaurant?

Barry Conrad
That's so funny, Melanie. Yeah, listen, I was to give you some intel, so I was basically in an Uber to a Mexican restaurant, and the Uber driver was like, hey, brother, where are you going to eat?

I'm like, having Mexican food. And then I started listening to the radio, just chilling out, and he just goes randomly. I never tried Mexican before, so it was really funny and random.

Melanie Avalon
What's so funny about this video is yes, Barry is just like selfie videoing himself singing in the car. Perfect timing. And then when he says that like the timing of it when he said it at the end, I was just dying life. I literally watched it five times in a row.

I thought it was so funny. The timing and then it just like cuts off. So I am picking the Mexican restaurant at the Epcot pavilion in Disney World. So remember how I've been telling you about the Epcot pavilion where there's all the different countries and each country has a restaurant and such. So the Mexican restaurant is called San, I probably am saying it wrong, San Angel N. It's probably the Mexican pronunciation, but San Angel N restaurante is so okay. Do you see the picture that came up?

Barry Conrad
I do. Oh, whoa, that that's beautiful. That's really.

Melanie Avalon
And if you go to the picture where you can see like the entrance, so there's water down there because there's actually a boat ride that explores the world of Mexico, as they say in it, Mexico, or I guess I guess and it's stunning. It's beautiful.

There's like Aztec structures in the background and like it's evening. It's very, very dark in there, very dark. It's really authentic Mexican food. My dad loves Mexican food. So we used to always go here. I think this is probably one of his favorite restaurants in Disney.

Yeah. So the setting is the base of 17th century Mayan ruins, a hacienda.

Barry Conrad
It looks like a set, like a film set. It's amazing.

Melanie Avalon
It does. It does look like a film set. Yeah, but it's just, it's so, I don't know. I love it.

The vibe. It's just amazing. Oh, and then if you like zoom out, which I don't think there's pictures of it here. There's not pictures. If you could see like outside of this restaurant, which is still inside, it's like, it's like a, um, it's set up like, uh, like being outdoors at this evening, Mexican. There's like little carts and like stores and it's like being outdoors. It's so, it's really pretty and there's fountains and.

Barry Conrad
Sounds great.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so shall we look at the menu?

Barry Conrad
I'm going to the dinner menu right now, checking it out. What have you got? I think I'm going to struggle.

Melanie Avalon
with this one a little bit actually no maybe

Barry Conrad
I love Mexican food by the way, haven't mentioned that to you before, I actually love it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I mean, I, yes, I think so. I'm pretty sure I think I would have, is it your, what's your favorite? Is it your favorite genre of food?

Barry Conrad
That's that this is really hard. It's really tough.

I did say what my final meal ever would be, but I think It's hard to just choose a genre because I just yeah, I love mexican love greek Love japanese. Oh, yeah I could be here all day, but I do love mexican. Do you have a favorite johner?

Melanie Avalon
Probably New American.

Barry Conrad
What would that be?

Melanie Avalon
I feel like I just know whenever I go to a new American restaurant, it's what I like. It's like steak and fish dishes and new American. It's a fusion. Oh, okay. I've never defined it, but I just know I really like it.

It's modern American cuisine or contemporary American cuisine, a wave of modernized cooking, predominantly served at upscale fine dining restaurants in the United States originating in the 1980s. It assimilates flavors from the melting pot of traditional American cooking techniques.

Barry Conrad
Hmm, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Sounds good. So it's, I'm not sure if that defined it enough, but like seasonal, okay. It's often like fresh local seasonal ingredients, focus on creative and lighter dishes, even though I like steak and such. Yeah, I think that's what I like about it.

It's often like seasonal and local, and there's always a lot of like protein options and it's like a steakhouse, but just American modernized.

Barry Conrad
Okay. Well, that tracks though, because you have a lot of stake and yeah, that makes sense from what you post.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so what would you get appetizer wise?

Barry Conrad
There's a few good ones here. There's a couple of things. Definitely guacamole. Love my guacamole.

That's gotta happen. So having some guac, I'm gonna also get the chilaquillas, which is the choice of shaved ribeye or chipotle chicken tortilla chips tossed in ranchera salsa, topped with coca cheese, crema, mexicana, and onions.

So that sounds delicious. What about you?

Melanie Avalon
I might taste the guacamole. Do they not have a shrimp cocktail? Is that not a?

Barry Conrad
No. No, it's not.

Melanie Avalon
I thought ceviche. I thought ceviche was a Mexican thing. Is it not?

Barry Conrad
I don't think it's, I don't think it's as such, but I do think a lot of modern Mexican, I think commercial Mexican food like here has a lot of kingfish and ceviche, but if this is meant to be legit, maybe it's not, I'm not too sure. And we should say the guacamole is topped with mango and toasted pumpkin seeds, served with chicharrones and salsa Valentina.

I'm just guessing that's how it's pronounced, but I'm just going with it.

Melanie Avalon
You I think it yeah I think it sounds good what you said okay it does occur in mexico.

Barry Conrad
Okay, okurr is a lie.

Melanie Avalon
Hello, Chris. Yeah. So the marinade in Mexico tends to feature tomatoes. Might have tomatoes, avocados, and tomato sauce with it.

Well, they don't have it here, so. I think I'll save my appetite for the entree. Yeah? Yes.

Barry Conrad
Okay, you go first.

Melanie Avalon
carne asada.

Barry Conrad
And you get that.

Melanie Avalon
served rare. I was debating between that and the chicken. I might get both.

Okay, the carne asada New York strip with Chipotle butter served with a tamal de raha topped with red and green salsas with a corn rice medley. So everything can just be on the side and have the carne asada you know rare by itself and then maybe also the polo a la raha raja raha grilled chicken breasts over roasted potatoes with onions poblano peppers corn and a poblano cream sauce topped with queso fresco again everything just on the side if possible

Barry Conrad
Could I have your potatoes if you're not going to eat them? Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Oh, they also have a catch of the day. So it might depend what the fish is.

Barry Conrad
What if it's trout?

Melanie Avalon
I don't think they have, do they have trout in Mexico?

Barry Conrad
Yes, you know, as I was saying that I was like, is this not even a fish that they have there?

Melanie Avalon
The takeaway, I'm learning so much about the world, the takeaway on the shows that, uh, yeah, if they had trout, I would have that. I'm not sure if trout is there.

Barry Conrad
It says red snapper and Parago Rojo, a significant presence in traditional Mexican, includes a red snapper.

Melanie Avalon
red snapper yeah that's what's coming up a lot here yeah so i'll probably stick with the chicken and the steak how about you

Barry Conrad
I'm going to go for the enchiladas de polo, which is corn tortillas filled with chipotle chicken, covered with ranchera salsa, crema mexicana, cocha cheese, and crispy onion straws atop beans, served with plantains. Delicious.

Topped with crema, mexicana, and cocha cheese. And I'm also going to get the tacos because that comes with lava taco. And that comes with shaved ribeye, a choice of shaved ribeye or grilled chicken. I'm going to go for the ribeye.

Poblano and red peppers, onions, bacon, and Monterey Jack cheese, served with corn tortillas and plantains. Again, topped with crema, mexicana, and cocha. I want to see what their topping tastes like. It's a common additive on this menu.

Melanie Avalon
That sounds very adventurous.

Barry Conrad
Sounds very me.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And you know what you can get with it? What? Did you see at the bottom they have create your own margarita flight? Oh.

Barry Conrad
What? I haven't got that far yet. That's happening.

Melanie Avalon
They have a lot of drinks, but I feel like you can choose three. Is that what you would get? Would you get that?

Barry Conrad
I would absolutely, 800% get that and create my own Margarita flight. I will do. Okay. It says three LDR blood, orange, the cucumber classica, or the wild one. I'll get one. What's in the wild?

Melanie Avalon
Oh, you go look at the I see you look at it. Oh, I get you. I'm following now you pick from the

Barry Conrad
menu. This is the Classica, I feel like that's the classic, just standard. I want something spicy.

Oh, there we go, Aldiablo, that's got a cucumber jalapeno sauce, so that's going to be spicy. I'll do that one. I'll do the wild one, which is Centinella blanco tequila, combia, orange, liqueur, ginger rum, corn, passion fruit, cordial, lime juice, dos jombre, mezcal, grenadine, and hibiscus salt rim. And then one more, I'll go the Classica, just a classic as well.

Melanie Avalon
Like a nice palette cleanser.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, to end with, I should say. What drinks would you consume? Is there a wine list there?

Melanie Avalon
They don't even have a wine list, so this might be a BYOB situation.

Barry Conrad
and sneak in a little thing.

Melanie Avalon
I wonder, cause in Disney, I would have to sneak it into the park, but once it's in the park, I wonder if you can just bring in your own stuff because Disney, you can, you know, you can, you don't have to, you can drink, you can carry drinks around outside and such. Cause it's like all inside, I'm not all in, you know, it's like you're inside of a establishment type thing.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, right. That's pretty good if they do that because it's not really in Australia. It's not really It's not a thing where you can carry walk around with alcoholic drinks

Melanie Avalon
I mean, I think I'm pretty sure you can because there's booths everywhere. I mean, yeah, yeah, you have to be able to because there's like there's like walk up booths everywhere with drinks.

So would you get a dessert?

Barry Conrad
I don't know why I keep trying my luck because I know the answer of it. I just think maybe today she'll say, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
someday. I really applaud your perseverance. I think it's endearing.

Barry Conrad
Desserts I would get a couple things the brown sundaes catching my eye at first so that's a fudge brownie soda dulce de leche ice cream yum and topped with kajita sauce can I have that and then I have to have a. Yeah just maybe just the seasonal mexican flavored sorbet which is me of probably saying that incorrectly but sundae and some so.

Melanie Avalon
I can, I can answer for what I would get if I, if I ate desserts, I would get the, probably the chaseless cake. I love that whole concept.

Yeah. Do you like it? Or does it bother you? It bothers some people, like the soaked cake situation, like the milk soaked cake.

Barry Conrad
I actually made a cake, a tres leches cake with my mom a couple of years ago during Christmas. It was pretty good actually.

It was a nightmare to make though, it was a headache because the soaking and it took way longer than we thought so we were up all night doing it but it tasted pretty good. Tasted pretty good.

Melanie Avalon
that story no that was like a that was like a good that was a good sound sorry if it sounded not good i looked up i found a video of them making a trace i don't know how you say it trace leches funfetti cake once

Barry Conrad
How does I'm trying to picture how that would even look because it's

Melanie Avalon
confetti cake is the cake, and then drown it.

Barry Conrad
trying to milk one day one day you'll try it again maybe

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I'm getting the non-existent shrimp ceviche as my dessert that they don't have.

Barry Conrad
Imagine Melanie asking the server, could this shift just get me some?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because is shrimp anywhere else on this menu?

Barry Conrad
I don't think so. I don't think so as well. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, wait, no, it is. There's chipotle pepper and garlic sauteed shrimp in the Camerons a la Diablo. So shrimp is in the house. I feel like, can I get some shrimp?

Barry Conrad
What if they say, sorry, man, we can't, you know, it's kind of packaged with other ingredients. We can't do it separately.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Then I, then I'm just, I just, I just accept. I just give up.

Barry Conrad
Except defeat in this case you did well you chose this restaurant for my benefit, which I appreciate

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. And I mean, I love the vibe. I would actually love to go here. The point is you can make any restaurant work, I think.

Yep. I thought, I thought, I don't actually, for me, I could not make a vegan restaurant work. That's the only thing I could not make work for me.

I could go. I just wouldn't, there wouldn't be anything to eat. That's okay, though.

Barry Conrad
I mean, it just wouldn't be anything good or fun, but I mean, there's vegetables and stuff, right?

Melanie Avalon
No, like, because I wouldn't. So if I'm like having my meal, like I need.

Barry Conrad
food. He sounded very, like, very passionate just then.

Melanie Avalon
So like, basically, I wouldn't want to just eat vegetables, it would just make me hungry and so I would just at a vegan restaurant, I would just rather, I'm totally down to go, I would just, I'm going for my sister's graduation, I would just rather not eat there, I sound obnoxious, I'm not obnoxious, I promise.

Barry Conrad
No, you're not obnoxious. You just, you don't want to be like, like angry and angry if you can't eat the things that you know that you need, right?

Melanie Avalon
You nailed it. Like I would just be, yeah, it would just make me more hungry. So yeah, okay. Well, we should definitely go here.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I'm about it. I love Mexican food so much. I'm so down for that.

Melanie Avalon
Perfect. Okay, well, this is super fun. Friends, thank you so much for listening.

If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. And these show notes will be at ifpodcast.com slash episode 425. They will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go?

Barry Conrad
No, everybody have an amazing rest of your day. Thank you for tuning in and we'll catch you next time. See you, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
I'll talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

See you next week.

Jun 02

Episode 424 – Does Breakfast Increase Hunger, Tips For Fasting At Work, Barry’s New Skincare Line, Dopamine And Addiction, Social Fasting Hacks, And More!

⁠Six Weeks of Morning Fasting Causes Little Adaptation of Metabolic or Appetite Responses to Feeding in Adults with Obesity

Welcome to Episode 424 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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ZBiotics has released a new sugar-to-fiber probiotic drink mix that helps convert excess sugar in your food into a rare prebiotic fiber called levan, which supports gut health and fiber diversity. It’s easy to use - just mix it into what you’re already eating or drinking, like water or yogurt - no diet changes required. Created by PhD microbiologists, it's a science-backed, genetically engineered solution to help the 95% of Americans who don’t get enough fiber. Get 15% off any first time orders of ZBiotics probiotics with code ifpodcast at ⁠⁠zbiotics.com/ifpodcast⁠⁠.

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Book: ⁠Good Stress

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If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts!

Original theme composed by Leland Cox, and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)

Melanie Avalon
Welcome to Episode 423 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you.

I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What, When, Wine. Lose weight and feel great with paleo-style meals, intermittent fasting, and wine. And I'm joined by my co-hosts, Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC. For more on us, check out MelanieAvalon.com and BarryConradOfficial.com. You can submit questions for the show by emailing questions at iapodcast.com or by going to iapodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 423 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon. I'm here with Barry Conrad. And Barry, congratulations on successfully moving apartments.

Barry Conrad
Hey, everyone. Hey, Mel. Yes, I moved places yesterday. It was over the last couple of days. And I was saying before, I feel so tired.

I don't get why because, like, when I go to the gym, for example, like, where I feel like I'm pushing a whole lot of weight, I definitely don't feel like this afterwards. Like, Mel, is it like an emotional weight? Like, what's the why am I so exhausted? I don't get it.

Melanie Avalon
It's so interesting you say that I have the exact same thought whenever I move. I think about what you just said. I'm like, this isn't like, yes, I'm moving a lot. Yes, I'm picking things up, but it's not, you know, it's not climbing Mount Everest and it's not like a workout at the gym. Well, it is a little bit, I think it's, I think it's the emotional part. I really do.

Like, it's just the mental and the psychological aspect of it. And you have so much that you have to get accomplished, like by a deadline, you have to get all your stuff from point A to point B. It's a moment of uncertainty. And we know our brains don't like uncertainty. They register that as a threat. So it's like you're in a stress threat state while also physically moving a lot of stuff, so very true.

Barry Conrad
training. It's training and I feel like like you're right. I think processing all of that at the same time and also kind of maybe grieving in a way like that sounds deep, but you've been in a place for a while. It's like, I'm used to this.

I'm used to that. Now I'm saying goodbye to it really quickly. While the movers are here, packing things up and it's kind of like a low key traumatic kind of experience and also just annoying because moving sucks. But it's also exciting.

Melanie Avalon
I'm pretty sure it's high on the list of top 10 most stressful life events. I'm pretty sure. Let's see. Okay. Oh, maybe not. I thought it was higher up.

Okay. I could have sworn moving was on the list. What's the top 10? Okay. Yeah. This is the official list. It's number one. This is the Holmes Ray stress scale first developed in 1967 and it's a scale of life stressors. What do you think number one is?

Barry Conrad
Your house burning down, is that on there? Like you're losing your home?

Melanie Avalon
No, actually, I'm just confused because I could have sworn moving was like way up there.

Barry Conrad
What about surgeons performing really intense operations? That's a pretty high stress environment.

Melanie Avalon
The closest to that is number six, which is not the same thing, but it's major. Well, yeah, major personal injury or illness is number six.

What's number one? I'm curious. Number one. Number nine is funny. So number one is death of a spouse.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, for sure. That's definitely the number one. I should have said that straight away, losing somebody that you love.

Melanie Avalon
Do you want to guess number two and three because they're similar and they involve relationships?

Barry Conrad
Okay, divorce.

Melanie Avalon
Yes that's number two.

Barry Conrad
And number three, breakups, well, that's the same thing.

Melanie Avalon
No, yeah, similar. What's a breakup where you're breaking up but you're still together? Separation. Yes, marital separation, number three.

Barry Conrad
Wow, okay.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, so relationships cause a lot of stress is my takeaway. The top three all involve the top three all involve the significant other. I shouldn't laugh about the death one.

Barry Conrad
So you're running from all things relationships based on this, this little thing, this survey.

Melanie Avalon
I'm just saying and oh wait, we'll wait to get to number nine. Should I tell you what number nine was?

Tell me. Number nine is marital reconciliation. Really? Yeah. You just can't win. You just cannot win. Oh man. For, unless you want to guess any of the other ones.

Barry Conrad
No, it's all right, it's all right.

Melanie Avalon
So, four is being incarcerated. Wow. Interesting, though, that it's more stressful to get divorced than to be put in jail.

Barry Conrad
There's reason to laugh, but it's just funny. It's just that we're not laughing at anyone.

Melanie Avalon
Humor helps us get through the stress of life, I think. Humor and kindness.

Number five is death of a close family member. Yeah, that's sad and stressful. Six was the injury and illness. Oh, seven. What? Seven, marriage. Oh, my God.

Barry Conrad
Oh my god, it's all relationships.

Melanie Avalon
Amazing. Number eight, being fired or laid off from work. And 10 is retirement.

So I was wrong, moving is not on there, but I would put it on there. My scale, well, my scale, I can take off half of those. So I'll, what would you make your scale? What would your top three be on your scale?

Barry Conrad
Oh my God. I think, okay, losing a spouse, for sure. I would say losing a spouse, my second guess was going to be losing a family member. And then the third, I would say maybe divorce, because I think that's pretty traumatic, because it's stressful based on what I know of friends who have had divorces and stuff.

But definitely family would be way up there for me, losing family.

Melanie Avalon
I feel like for my skill, I need to make like a relationship scale and then a non-relationship skill because then I can do a more accurate skill for my life because if I'm not getting married that gets rid of half of these. So I would say death of a family member and then I think I think I would say what you said like your house burning down, that would be horrible.

And then for me, I think moving. Actually being put in jail would be a lot to deal with.

Barry Conrad
of course it would be but also Mel I was I listened to that episode of the the mind-blowing podcast you know the one you were saying about the decluttering I listened to that like while preparing for like packing things up so I had it on like and I was packing stuff up while listening to you talk and something that you said stuck with me it was the the 80-20 rule like the Pareto principle like how we like in context of belongings how we use 20% of our things 80% of the time I really think that's true

Melanie Avalon
I, I mean, looking around, I mean, it might be like for me, I feel like I use like 10% of my stuff, 90% of the time, honestly.

Barry Conrad
It's because like the same rotation of clothes, shoes, like gadgets, whatever it is, like, I feel like whatever you pack with you to go on trips and stuff, that's kind of like what you use most of the time. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I think we talked about this last week when you moved all your stuff. Did you get rid of stuff?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I did. I sold stuff. I actually sold like tables, sold like my bed and the bed frame and a coffee machine. Yeah, I actually did pretty good in like a week. I sold all that stuff. So I did it.

Melanie Avalon
Did you get rid of anything that you were inspired to get rid of by listening to that episode?

Barry Conrad
Actually, yeah, because now I have boxes of stuff that I even like I thought that I needed and I'm going to get rid of that as well now. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon
Nice.

Barry Conrad
Minimalist life.

Melanie Avalon
Did fasting help with your move?

Barry Conrad
It actually did. I made sure I didn't eat or break my fastened or I finished packing everything. I just got into this zone, like this intense zone and just went under a packing rampage. And then at the very end, after that mental clarity and exertion, had a whole lot of food, wine chilled out.

It was the best.

Melanie Avalon
That was always how I approached moving, I would, you know, if I had multiple days, I would, I would not let myself, I would not eat until I was like done with that day's, you know, work of moving stuff.

Barry Conrad
When you when you get into your new place, for example, do you wait like because you're so tired like to get in there, the boxes and stuff are still there and you chill first, or do you just straight away get it all unpacked and then chill?

Melanie Avalon
Okay. So listeners, I'm glad you brought this up because you said you unpacked everything.

It takes me like three weeks to... I'm not kidding. When you said like you unpacked everything that day, I was like... I did. Everything? Yeah, because there's so many boxes and so much stuff. And then I like to, I feel so... Literally, I get dopamine hits just thinking about it. I get so excited to unpack the stuff and like put it in its proper place. Oh, it feels so good. Feels so good. So I savor it and I do it over a couple weeks. Yes, weeks.

Barry Conrad
but also i don't know if i believe that because you know i also heard you say you know you have the thing where you put you throw something away get rid of something like one thing a day and you have a stickers and stuff so how much stuff do you have.

Melanie Avalon
I don't have, I'm like a normal apartment.

Barry Conrad
but you just want to take your time unpacking it. I get it. I get what you're saying.

Melanie Avalon
And and okay, okay, here's the other thing. Here is the other thing. I've slowly been like when we moved out of our childhood ish house. A couple years ago, we had to go through everything. That was a lot.

And I kept a lot of stuff from that like I got rid of a ton of stuff but I kept a lot of stuff. And I have a storage unit here. So I have I basically, I am proud to say that I everything from my life that I have kept I now have with me, like in my apartment or my or my storage unit, rather than it being like all different places like there at one point. And so at one point, I had stuff in my childhood home, I had stuff in a storage unit in LA, I was like living here, like I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't everything's not in one place. But I can say now confidently that everything is either in my apartment or in a storage unit. And it's not that much. I don't think

Barry Conrad
That's pretty impressive to have everything that I get I get that feeling of disarray cuz I I'm in that previous position right now where I have some in like an older house still in boxes which I need to I need to consolidate that for sure.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's yeah, it's a lot so

Barry Conrad
Anyway, what about you, other than my moving debacles?

Melanie Avalon
This, this will have happened quite a while ago, but finally I've mentioned it, I think every single episode, the past few episodes. So apologies for that.

But I'm finally launching my EMF blocking product line on Friday, this hour Friday. Awesome. So I'm very excited about that.

This will be my first non supplement physical product, just as a brief recap for listeners, EMFs, we are way overexposed to them today. We were not exposed to them in this way in the past. And I actually just re interviewed our blank, my business partner, and revisited all the science of it. And it does not look good for how they affect our health.

And I didn't know this. I didn't know EMF sensitivity is actually a medical diagnosis. Like there's codes for it. Really? Yeah. I did not know that. That's exciting. It's exciting to know that the medical community is taking it seriously.

They are classified by the IARC as a group to be carcinogen and you can reduce your exposure by not using wifi. If you can not using Bluetooth as much as you can, not holding your phone up to your head, which the iPhone actually suggests that you use speakerphone in the legal section of the iPhone. And so I have created EMF free headphones because even normal headphones can conduct their digital so they can conduct EMFs into your brain. So mine are completely free of that. So listeners, they will be out by the time this comes out. So you can go to Avalon X EMF dot us and use the code Melanie Avalon to get 10% off.

And that code will also work for 10% off site wide because what happens when you go to that, that website, it's my website, but then you'll be directed to my partner shield your body, their website. And so that code will work on my products and all of their products as well. And if listeners would like to get all the updates on those products and future launches and sales and specials and all the things, you can go to Melanie Avalon.com slash EMF email list. Okay. Yes, I'm excited.

Barry Conrad
Congratulations, Melanie. That's amazing.

That's honestly so incredible. And the fact that I love that you said it was like a medical diagnosis and you you're kind of ahead of the curve because I haven't heard of anyone else doing this in this way. So that's amazing. That's awesome. Seriously.

Melanie Avalon
Well, thank you so much. And also shout out to my partner, our blank is his name. And he owns shield your body. They also make emf blocking products. And he's just so knowledgeable on this topic. I really respect him.

And he's been incredible to work with creating the products together. So shout out to him. And thank you for the kind words means a lot coming from you.

Barry Conrad
Very exciting.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Well, shall we jump into some fasting related things for today?

Barry Conrad
Let's jump right on in.

Melanie Avalon
Let's do it. Also, wait, before we do that, really quick question. So are you, so when you sent me that message about being done and unpacked and everything in one day, which I'm still, I want a picture of your apartment. I just need to see this.

But in any case, I listened to that and I was like, like, is he gonna be okay to record? But look at you, you're here. Are you really tired? Are you good?

Barry Conrad
I'm actually fine like I'm good like my back is a little bit janky I think probably lifting stuff but that's fine that's just normal but I feel really good I had a really good sleep and I'm gonna hit the gym after the show I mean after we record so I feel good.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. So do you have a study to start us off with?

Barry Conrad
I do have a study to start us off with and the study I'm bringing today is called the influence of ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting on the change of body fat rate. This was done by Pu Yuan Yu from the College of Biological and Agricultural Engineering at Jilin University in China. I know it sounds like a pretty clinical title, but the findings are really, really exciting.

It's sort of about something a lot of us are already curious about, about how effective is IF alone and how does it stack up against keto and what happens when you combine the two. This was a 12-week randomized control trial, which is sort of like the gold standard when it comes to research. So they took 120 overweight or obese participants and they split them into four groups. So one stayed on their normal diet, aka the control group, one went full keto, one practiced intermittent fasting, and the last group did both keto and intermittent fasting together. So Mel, see if you can rank those four groups for me of who had the most change or none at all. Four being no change, one being the most change.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, and it's checking. You said it's checking for I was going to ask you to say it again. The title is checking body fat, you said.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, to change your body fat rate, you know.

Melanie Avalon
So like how fast they lost weight.

Barry Conrad
or how much body fat they dropped.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, it's interesting because it's similar to the other study you found where it was fasting, exercise, or fasting plus exercise. The options are normal diet, fasting, keto, fasting and keto.

Barry Conrad
That's it, you got it.

Melanie Avalon
Did it talk about what they ate exactly?

Barry Conrad
They didn't talk about what foods they had, they just, yeah, they didn't specify that.

Melanie Avalon
Did it talk about the macros? Like actually, because sometimes the studies they'll say is keto and it's not keto.

I saw this in a study recently and it drove me up the wall. I was like, you can't know, like you can't do this study. It was like, they said it was keto, but it was like 30% carbs. Like that's not keto. That's not keto.

Barry Conrad
So that I sent you the link so you can check it out as well. But they, from what I can see, they're not, they controlled like the age and the sex and the starting weight, but they didn't, they're not talking about the exact diet or even how long people are fasting for, they just have 120 overweight or obese participants and split them into those four groups.

Melanie Avalon
I'm gonna guess keto and fasting lost the most. And then, oh, this is so hard. And then fasting and then keto and then normal.

Barry Conrad
Almost.

Melanie Avalon
Other way around, then keto and then fasting? Yeah. Okay, so fasting and keto and then keto and then fasting and then normal.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, so the control group pretty much nothing happened. The weight and body fat stayed the same.

The keto group saw really strong results, losing an average of 3.5 kgs and 4.8%. And 3.5 kgs and 4.8% body fat. Intimate fasting group saw 2.1 kgs down and 3.2% drop, but the combo of intermittent fasting and keto, they lost 4.7 kgs at a massive 6.3% of their body fat. So that's more than any of the other. And there wasn't just like, what's crazy, the group wasn't just better. Like statistically, it was more effective because the regression analysis showed that doing both together had the strongest impact on fat loss even after controlling their age and starting weight in sex. And they also said here that movement, the movement helped because the more participants exercised each week, love exercise, the more fat they lost. So exercise still played a massive role, especially with IF or keto or both.

And they also said, what I loved as well is like, they checked in with participants about how they were feeling afterwards, which I haven't really seen at other studies. So they, the people doing keto reported being hungrier at first, but that improved over time. Those doing IF said they felt hunger most on the fasting days, which kind of makes me think, are they doing ADF?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, maybe.

Barry Conrad
and that they were fine otherwise, and then the combo group found it the most challenging to stick to, but were the most satisfied with the results.

From what I can see as well, they also have a few caveats because the study did mention possible risks like hypoglycemia and ketoacidosis, especially for people with certain conditions, or if they're jumping in too quickly, too fast, so... I would say to listeners, if anyone's thinking about giving something like this a try, please talk to your healthcare provider first, because it's not a one-size-fits-all and we're not doctors. But I think my main thing, Mel, is, as we can see, both IF and keto have their own fat loss mojo, but combining them, it's maybe that's the cheat code. I don't know, like, for reducing body fat, because I've never tried keto, personally.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, that's a conversation, really. Oh, wow, I did not know that, never.

Barry Conrad
Have you like what's

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. Did you ever, did you ever, that surprises me actually. Uh-huh. Did you ever like contemplate trying it?

Barry Conrad
I think you know what I actually think it was more my opinion of it became such a such a thing a few years ago like Keto. And I think my natural disposition is like to not jump on like a fatty kind of thing. It seemed more like diety and I was like I don't want to do that because everyone's talking about just like losing weight and it seemed more diety to me so I kind of veered away from it.

But I know that's not true. I've done paleo though, which is kind of close ish.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. What about you?

I did not realize that. Yeah, keto was my gateway into fasting because I first tried it before it was popular. I mean, Atkins, I did Atkins. Well, so I guess Atkins was popular, but I didn't do it during the heyday of Atkins, so I did it in a lull period. But that's when I discovered the science of ketosis and ketones and became obsessed with the science of everything. And then that's how I found fasting, was through that obsessive rabbit hole internet searching.

Barry Conrad
What's the difference between Atkins and Paleo?

Melanie Avalon
Well, it's very, it's very different. So, Atkins is more similar to keto. Atkins, you can eat anything as long as it's a certain amount of carbs. It's what made keto popular originally and there's no limitation though on like the quality of food, the type of food.

Like when I was doing it, I was eating literally this like carb quick stuff that was low carb and it was literally like the first ingredient is like gluten. There's something about diet quality. There's something about like whole foods. It's, they have all these Atkins bars and that are made with all these, you know, processed ingredients. So, it's keto without any, yeah, stipulation about that. Compared to paleo, which could be keto if you eat ketogenic foods on paleo, but paleo would be about, you know, whole foods based, no, well, so no dairy and a lot of paleo and Atkins is often high in dairy. No dairy, no grains, no legumes, you know, no sugar, processed foods, et cetera. It's interesting. We should make like a painting of like how they all overlap.

Barry Conrad
You know carnivore is carnivore quite similar to keto then because it's like protein and fat.

Melanie Avalon
Really? Carnivore is keto. So like carnivore is keto, but keto isn't necessarily carnivore.

What do you mean? So if you're keto, sorry, if you're carnivore, you are keto because you're not taking in any carbs. Keto was just about the carb number. So you could do, you could do keto and be eating leafy greens and dairy and well, like a dairy's carnivore. So you could be doing keto and eating a lot of leafy greens and be keto, but you wouldn't eat carnivore because you're having plants.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I get you. Okay. But I've never, yeah, I've just maybe, I don't know how I, how I'd go with Kiro.

Melanie Avalon
I'm dying to know what that would, yeah. Well, you have done it when you do, because you've done like PSMF, right?

Barry Conrad
So i have actually done it without really not like intentionally doing it so just cut cut carbs stick to protein and and fat or animal protein with the phone rather than trying to externally like try to find fat you know.

Melanie Avalon
So that's keto. Okay. Have you done it like multiple days in a row or would you do it as like, like a day, like a, you know, like a one-off type thing? I've done it like who?

Barry Conrad
a few days in a row, like maybe a couple, but not like a whole week or two weeks or anything like that.

Melanie Avalon
Okay. Yeah, I think that's probably the difference. You've had days that are keto, but you haven't done a keto diet where you're living in that world for an extended period of time.

Barry Conrad
like consistently to see what the results could be if I gave it a chance properly.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, because I remember when I first started doing it, I was so excited because and this is the reason it was the gateway for me into an obsession with the science of diet and fat burning. I was so excited that I could get those keto urine sticks and measure ketones.

Hello, what's that? Keto urine sticks? Wait, is this new to you? Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to tell you. Okay, so when you first go into... When you first start a ketogenic diet or fasting, this can happen too, and you start producing ketones. At the very beginning, your body is not very efficient with those ketones and it actually wastes a lot of them rather than converting them into a type of ketone that you use for fuel. So you actually excrete a lot of... When you first go into ketosis, you start excreting ketones in your urine. So there are these urinary test strips and they show you if you're making ketones or not. And it can be confusing for people though because when you first start, it'll be really high and then the longer you do it, you might stop... It'll be less in your urine or you might even... I mean, to probably still register it, but you might not. So people think that they're not in ketosis as much or they're not burning fat and that's not true. It's just that your body isn't wasting the ketones anymore. It's using them.

Barry Conrad
Do you know what my initial thought was when you told me about the urine strips?

Melanie Avalon
I literally have no idea. Wait, I'm trying to think, like, what...

Barry Conrad
like to do like a pregnancy test that's like the, you know, it's just, it's just funny. It's a funny visual for, I don't know why that may be laugh.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, glad that now everybody has this visual of me taking it. Well, it's funny. So one of the shocking moments I have, because at the beginning, okay, well, let me backtrack. The reason I thought it was so exciting was it was like, oh, now I don't have to question am I burning fat, I can literally check. Like I can see on this test strip. So that was very exciting.

And, but then I remember one time I got, so I was doing a keto diet and I would be testing my urinary ketones all the time. And then I went to, oh wait, do they have IHOP in Australia? They should. It's international.

Barry Conrad
I do like it. I do love IHOP. But why were you there? Why were you there? That's not a melody.

Melanie Avalon
Because I, okay, because I went, I wasn't paleo first, paleo didn't come into later, I was keto and Atkins, which like I said, you can eat anything as long as it's certain amount of carbs. So I was still eating like, my order of progression was keto and Atkins, then I found fasting, I wasn't paleo yet, then I found paleo.

So I didn't clean up my, like, quote, clean up my diet for non-processed foods until the third era of my dietary evolution. And honestly, I remember I was, I was fasting, I was doing keto, I was like, it's not going to make much difference if I only eat whole foods, like, what difference will that actually make? Middle, big difference.

Barry Conrad
So hold on, so when at IHOP, what would you like give us an example of what you would have then versus something you definitely wouldn't like even consider now?

Melanie Avalon
So this is the thing. So when I was in my keto Atkins phase at IHOP, I ordered an omelet, which is like eggs, bacon, cheese. Like it should be very keto, right? Like you would think.

I ate the omelet. I went home, I tested my urinary ketones and they were gone. And I was like, what happened? And that's when I found out that IHOP puts pancake batter in their omelets.

That's so dumb. Why would they do that? Make them taste better, I guess. But I was like, how do they not tell you? I mean, I wonder if they tell you that now because I haven't been in IHOP in forever. But back then you could just I mean, maybe they say it on the menu. But I just remember thinking I was like so safe, so good with my keto omelet. And then.

Barry Conrad
Nope. Yeah, because the omelet, it's like, it's definitely keto. That's what I think of as keto.

Melanie Avalon
Not when you add pancake batter to it, sneakily.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny that i can just pick because i'm picturing you sitting in an i hope it's just fun it's a funny visual cuz it's just not is not a melanie place now the melanie i know anyway.

Melanie Avalon
What's funny is all my memory, like when you say IHOP or Denny's, all I can think is 3am, probably wearing like a sparkly cocktail dress, being high on life with my fellow early 20 year olds, living our best lives and eating horrible, greasy food at, you know, a diner in LA. That's what I think.

Barry Conrad
You said Denny's, we had Denny's in New Zealand and it's the best ever. It's like exactly what you said. It's like 24 hours and it's like the whole two AM, three AM thing. Same thing.

Melanie Avalon
after the parties and that food tasted so good and so bad for you. Like just the memory I'm getting hit with right now is I remember, so when I went to USC, there was a Denny's like right by all of our housing. So the memory I have right now is it was at my film fraternity party, it was a dinosaur themed party. So it was me and my two friends all in dinosaur outfits. I think I painted my face with like green glitter and was wearing like a glittery green cocktail dress and something else to look like a dinosaur. So I just have a memory of that.

And my friend Matt and his like yellow dinosaur outfit, he actually got like a dinosaur outfit. And then I don't think Carmen was dressed up. And then we were just at Denny's. Like that's what I get hit with. Good times.

Barry Conrad
Do you have, is there photo we need to see a photo of?

Melanie Avalon
There is a photo. Yeah. Do you want to see it? I'll send it to you.

Barry Conrad
I do wanna see it, that's funny.

Melanie Avalon
Actually, do I not have my photos anymore? Because I lost my Facebook. Oh, no. Well, it's in my scrapbook. So I'll take a picture of it for my scrapbook and send it to you. Do you have a scrapbook?

Barry Conrad
I don't have a- is this an app where you're talking about an actual old school scrapbook?

Melanie Avalon
That's such a cute question. And so sad.

It's such a sad question. Like, it's so sad that now we are in this world where something like scrapbooking it's like, is it an app, you know, like just how far we've come from like the visceral, tangible, these are real, these are real scrapbooks like books, because they can't take that away from me.

Barry Conrad
You know, I used to always keep like a diet, like a diary, like a not not just like a diary, like, you had to plan out things I used to like write at old school, but now I just someone gave me one for Christmas. I'm just I'm just not going to use it.

So I did the whole Melanie, Evelyn mind blown decluttering thing and just tossed it out. I'm not going to use it.

Melanie Avalon
Okay, wait, you throw you throw away the unused one, not not like your one with writing in it. Yeah, the unused one. Yeah. Do you have diary like journals diaries that have writings in them?

Barry Conrad
I actually think you know how we talked about how I had some stuff at like an older house. I think there's a box full of older diaries still there. I'm pretty sure.

Melanie Avalon
It is the best when you find those. When I was going through all my stuff moving, I found so many journals and diaries from my five-year-old self, middle school self.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like a time a time capsule like I thought this like I had this it's so weird in a good way

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it's.

Barry Conrad
It's wild. If I interrupted you, Holden, you said scrapbook, so tell me about scrapbook.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, no, just I can take a I'll take a picture of my dinosaur outfit. Oh, I was asking you if you scraped books, if you had scrapbooks.

Barry Conrad
No, no, no, it's not, it's not a BC thing. It's not, I don't know. I just, I don't know.

Melanie Avalon
You don't have a whole set of scrapbook materials. You should see my scrapbook material closet. There's a lot.

Barry Conrad
You have a scrap material closet?

Melanie Avalon
yeah, paper, stickers, all the photos. I'm sad because I finished my college scrapbook, college one, like it's done.

And I have a Disney one that's like pretty much done. And then I have a life one that I never finished and then like life got too busy. And maybe I need somebody to do it for me, but I get really into it.

Barry Conrad
Maybe this is a sign that you haven't thought about it in a while, so maybe you should get back into it.

Melanie Avalon
I just don't think, I don't know if I have time. Sad day.

Barry Conrad
What about during your cry?

Melanie Avalon
I'm like, bring all my little supplies with me.

Barry Conrad
Habit stacking, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Yes. Awesome. Okay. So does that all make sense now? Like Atkins, keto, paleo, carnivore? Are you going to try keto? Are you going to get some urine sticks?

Barry Conrad
No, no, I'm not going to hit the urine sticks. No, that's, that's a no for me for that, but you know, but I will, I will say that I'm going to intentionally now more approach it and see how I go.

See if I feel any different for starters and then see if it physically affects me like in terms of like how quick I drop weight or water or whatnot over like a longer period of time, we'll see.

Melanie Avalon
Well, you'll have to definitely let us know. Okay, sounds good. How did we start talking about this? Oh, because of your study that you found. Yeah.

Barry Conrad
but no keto urine sticks for me. I'm good.

Melanie Avalon
Barry is not in. Well, if you do want some, I can send you some.

Barry Conrad
I feel like a package from Melody.

Melanie Avalon
hear you. Wait a minute. Okay. I have ideas.

Barry Conrad
That's really funny. I'd probably laugh if you did send it to me like, Okay, I guess I have to try it now.

Melanie Avalon
Surprise. So OK, shall we jump into some listener questions? Let's do it. To start things off, we actually have two related questions. And it relates to a prior episode we did. Last episode, we went through a Facebook post from my group, IF Biohackers. And it was everybody commenting on things they struggle with with fasting. And a few people said that binging was a problem for them. So we wanted to address that here and then also read some questions we've also had about that.

So Michelle sent us an email. And the subject is binge eating. And Michelle says, long story short, I lost approximately 90 pounds last year. Wow. Working out two to three times a day and eating around 1,500 calories under 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of sugar. That reminds me really quick, Barry. I don't think I define the amount of carbs that qualifies as keto. So Atkins considers it 20 grams or less of net carbs. And net means you subtract fiber. But sometimes it's put in percentages and people say different amounts. But in general, it's usually around 20 grams. So that's nothing. Yeah, it's not much. Oh my goodness. I'm getting so many flashbacks to my keto Atkins days. Like the recipes I would make, I would get like blocks of cream cheese.

Barry Conrad
I love cream cheese.

Melanie Avalon
I know and put like Splenda in them because this was pre-paleo and just make like icing.

Barry Conrad
just eat it? That sounds good. That sounds really good.

Melanie Avalon
And I would make like, I would get cream cheese and I would make like Alfredo type sauces and just eat like chicken and Alfredo. Oh, so good.

Oh, and I would get these Shirataki noodles. Do you know about those?

Barry Conrad
I do. They're really delicious.

They're really good. You like them? And there's actually a store, literally, I'm not even lying, like downstairs from this apartment block that like an Asian grocer and stuff, and they sell all of that. I just had a look yesterday.

Melanie Avalon
Do they, the ones in Australia, do they smell, because like for me, when you open the bag, they smell like formaldehyde. Like literally smell like formaldehyde.

Really? Yeah, do the ones there smell like that?

Barry Conrad
Not not from what I can remember. I don't think so. Maybe here of a sensitive nose.

Melanie Avalon
This was a thing because I because you had I'd like Google it and people talk about how to get rid of the smell. You had to like dump the water, boil it like a lot and then coat it heavily.

And maybe maybe it's gotten better now.

Barry Conrad
Maybe they've improved. Sniff it in the store. People are like, are you okay, sir?

Melanie Avalon
You know what that would wreck my gut if I had those right now They're like basically just indigestible fiber

Barry Conrad
Yeah you changed your diet up a lot from what you said so no stay away from those.

Melanie Avalon
Oh my goodness. I remember I used to get, okay, so similar to sirotaki noodles. Have you heard of konjac flour or glucomannan? Okay, wait, there's two different things. They might be the same thing. I'm not sure.

It was this powder that you could add to liquids and it would gel it up and I would get these Atkins shakes that were like no calories but like chocolate or vanilla and then I would add this powder to it and it would turn it into like a pudding and it would be so good and then I would literally be in pain for like a day and then I would get over it and then I would just rinse and repeat like it was so so messed up.

Barry Conrad
Like you're self-sabotaged but you just can't get away, you just can't jump off that train.

Melanie Avalon
So in any case, keto tends to be like 20 grams of carbs.

Barry Conrad
You're a real chemist. You really made all these recipes.

Melanie Avalon
I would make my own version of chicken teriyaki, and I would get liquid Splenda and make teriyaki sauce. I did a lot.

Barry Conrad
Splendid though, is that like the sugar alternative? I've never actually tried that before, ever.

Melanie Avalon
artificial sweetener. I thought it was the best of the best back before I realized how toxic they all are.

So Michelle says she lost 90 pounds working out two to three times a day, eating around 1500 calories, under 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of sugar. I was mentally and physically the healthiest I ever had been. When I started my first year teaching, I started getting out of the routine. By the time May of this year came around, I was burnt out. I was dealing with a burnout, a breakup, a job transition, and applying for grad school. As a person with generalized anxiety, I thrive on consistency. This summer put a huge toll on me and I believe I fell into a depression. I started rewarding myself with bad meals frequently and became too tired to work out. I've gained about 20 pounds back, but overall my issue is binge eating. I will eat when I'm not hungry and make myself miserable. Sometimes I feel like I do it because I'm scared it's not going to be there later on. I'm not sure why. I didn't grow up neglected or it's emotional eating, feeling a void, and overall my family is very overweight. I also take Vyvanse to help with binging. I'm just at the point where I am feeling defeated. My gut health is in terrible shape and I know I just need to get back into getting healthier. I used a 16.8 window on and off last year and I believe it helps. Any advice on binging? And then Noreen, she posted in Facebook, she said, oh and I think this was from that chain we went through. She said, I became so focused on the clock that I forgot to listen to real hunger. This has led to binging. I started IF to lose 20 pounds. It worked until this happened and now I'm still fasting and I have the extra 20 pounds. It took six months to lose. I maintained 1.5 years. I've struggled the past two years. I don't listen to my body's cues anymore. Every day I say I'm going to. I work out hard at the gym, lifting and cardio, 70-30. I'm strong and lean underneath 20 pounds of fluff. So binging. Barry, do you have thoughts on this topic?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I, I like to like addressing kind of both individually. Can I do that? Or do you want me to summarize what I? Sure. Yeah. I mean, Michelle, like what you're saying, it's, it's stressful, like the emotional toll of everything, like the burnout, the transition and everything. And it makes total sense that your team's gonna, it's gonna get thrown off. You're human. The fact that you're even thinking about how to get back on track shows just how much you care about your health.

So don't underestimate that. I mean, binge eating is super tricky because it's never, it's never just about the food. It's a combination of a few things is physiology, psychology, the habits that are built up over a long time. And what I'm hearing you saying is that you were in such a structured discipline place before, like you're working out two, three times a day, eating a very specific way, keeping your carbs and your sugar pretty low, and then life just sort of hit you pretty hard. And when that kind of structure suddenly disappears, Michelle, like your brain tends to swing the other way to compensate. And it's like, hold on, you know, we're operating under all these tight rules. And now things just feel like way out of control. So let's just grab whatever we can eat on the go. So I think the key here is to look at why the binging is happening. And you mentioned sometimes feeling like you need to eat because the food might not be there later. I've had thoughts like that before as well. Like maybe let me just sort of eat for the future. And that's just not, you don't need to do that, even though you didn't grow up in a food insecurity. That right there tells me like your brand, it's still wide in a scarcity mindset when it comes to eating, which is something a lot of people experience after, especially a long periods of restriction. So it's not even necessarily a conscious fear. It's just this like a deep rooted drive that says stock up now while you can. And then, of course, there's the emotional side, which is like filling a void and using food as a comfort mechanism, which again is is a big thing for a lot of people, especially when stress and exhaustion piles up. So I guess where do we go from here, Michelle? I guess one of the biggest things is shifting the way you're looking at structure. So it sounds like you thrive in a routine. Same. And fasting definitely gives you some of that. So maybe bring back that 16 eight window, for example, maybe that could help, but not in a restrictive way. So instead of thinking of I can't eat outside this window, try reframing it as this is when I feel my best eating. This is when I can eat. That small shift in mindset makes a huge difference. And within that, focusing on nourishment rather than restriction is going to be your friend. So if your meals are built around protein rich nutrient dense foods, that's going to help stabilize your blood sugar and and actually help with those binges.

Barry Conrad
Michelle, because binging isn't just mental. It's also literally blood sugar and satiety issue as well. So if your body isn't getting what it needs on the regular, it's going to push you towards those massive cravings. And I have to mention gut health as well, because you said your guts is like a mess right now. And honestly, I think that could be playing a bigger role than maybe you realize, because there is a big gut brain connection. And when your microbiome is off, it can actually increase stress and anxiety. And it becomes the cycle where like, if your gut health fuels your mood imbalances, which feels binging, which then leads like to gut issues. So bringing in maybe like fermented foods, you know, omega threes, making sure you're giving your gut that right environment is going to help. I mean, finally, I would say like, back on track, you know, that same back on track, like it doesn't mean going back to where you were a year ago. I mean, you made so much progress. It's about creating something that fits into your life now, Michelle, and that supports you instead of like controlling. You already know what works. Now it's just about finding a way to do it that doesn't feel so extreme and constricting. And Melanie, what do you think about that? I mean, what are your thoughts?

Melanie Avalon
I love everything you said so much. So I love that you touched on the part about having the eating for the future. I think that happens a lot with people, not even just with binging, but with people with intermittent fasting. They think that because they're fasting, yeah, they have to stock up on food because they're going to be fasting. So having a reframe there of, like you said, this is when you feel best to eat, and you get to eat again tomorrow, like the next day, if you're doing a fasting protocol, just remembering that I think is so important.

The gut health piece, so I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to mention this. I interviewed, again, Dr. Stephen Gundry. I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes that was on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. One of the things I really liked that we talked about, and this was for his newest book called The Gut Brain Paradox, and it's about the connection between our microbiome and our gut. He makes the case that the concept of intuitive eating, for example, might not even be, I don't want to say not possible, but our gut microbiome largely determines our cravings. So the intuitive thing to do if our gut microbiome is out of whack and used to eating things that are not in our favor, the intuitive thing is to eat those things because that's what the microbiome is telling you. So if you get into a binge type cycle where you're binging on a lot of unhealthy foods, your microbiome is going to start craving that and tell you to eat more. The way out of that is to stop eating those foods and change what you're eating and your microbiome will actually change. It can change pretty fast. So I guess just knowing that these cravings you're having for certain foods may, like Barry said, and I just touched on, they may be coming from a gut microbiome that's a little bit out of whack, but you can definitely change it for the better. And we'll put a link in the show notes to that episode with Dr. Gundry. One thing else that I think is really important is on the one hand, I do think that there is usually behind binging habits, it's a psychological piece like Barry was saying. So could be something from your childhood, some sort of trauma, like it's probably coming from an emotional place. At the same time, I love the work of Glenn Livingston. He originally wrote a book called Never Binge Again. His newest book is called Defeat Your Cravings. And I've had him on the shows a few times, but most recently we had him on this show for episode 356. So either go to show notes, which will be at ifodcast.com slash episode 423, or go directly, so it uses link instead, or go directly to ifpodcast.com slash cravings. And you can get his book for free there. But his whole thing that I love so much is that yes, even if there are these emotional things behind everything, even if it's from childhood, like it literally doesn't, not that it doesn't matter, but to make change, you can you can quickly and rapidly make change if you have a mindset shift where you just say no.

Melanie Avalon
His whole thing, I've talked about it a lot in the show before, but he calls it like the pig. So you call this, you call this voice inside of you that's telling you to eat, you call it something else that's not you. He calls the pig, but you can call it whatever you want. You basically learn to that you don't have to listen to it.

And I know it sounds so simple to say you just stop binging. That's the concept. Like you don't like you don't like contemplate it. You don't like wonder where it's coming from. You don't like try to reason with it. You don't try to like logic your way out of things. You literally just say no. And I'm way oversimplifying it. But it's an incredible approach. And it has radically changed so many people's lives. So I would definitely, definitely get his book ASAP. Again, you can get it for completely free. Just go to ifodcast.com slash cravings, and you can get it there. So that might help I think for both of them.

Barry Conrad
It's awesome, Mel.

Melanie Avalon
Yes, all right any other thoughts for those

Barry Conrad
you know with yeah with Noreen I you know thanks for being so honest and vulnerable about this you know I think a lot of people relate and the fact that you lost 20 pounds and maintained it over like a whole year is massive and one of my personal mentors that I actually use in life is I have done it I can do it and I will do it again so you don't have to worry about that but I know that the last couple of years I felt like a struggle so take a breath in let's zoom out for a second you know you you mentioned that you're strong and you'll lean but underneath that 20 pounds and first of all that's amazing the fact that you you're lifting and doing cardio you're showing up for your workouts that's great it says a lot but I reckon it might be time to maybe shift a little bit like starting to ask again reframing things like am I hungry right now am I just watching the clock rather than paying attention to how I feel you know and with binging as Melanie and I bursted before it's it's often from restriction physically or mentally especially for too long and you're trying to white knuckle your way through it and at what might help us maybe go into a 18 maybe go from 18 6 to like a 14 10 even for a little bit like give yourself permission to eat when you're hungry focus on that because you're you're also lifting a lot and doing cardio and gymming like that put stress on your body the good kind of stress but you need to feel yourself properly as well you know so under feeling or inconsistent feelings gonna spike those cravings and when you prioritize protein healthy fats and carbs after that's gonna help you I mean last thing I would say Noreen is just give yourself some grace you know like the hardest part is showing up and just be willing to change things just change your mind reevaluate reset you've got this you know you're more in tune than you think so keep us posted with how it goes now what do you reckon

Melanie Avalon
I love everything you said so much yeah people you really do have this and i love what you said about i do the same thing so when you're saying that you. You can do it because you've done in the past something i often tell myself is.

You only have to do something once to do it a million times because if we haven't done something before it's scary and i might seem like we can't do it but once you've done it once you can do it a million times cuz you know you've done it so. You know tackling these things in your own at your own pace and one thing at a time just know that you you've done it before you can keep doing it going forward so definitely let us know both Michelle and arena how it goes.

Barry Conrad
Please do. Good luck and keep us posted. We're rooting for you.

Melanie Avalon
Awesome. Shall we have our hypothetical, magical, not real, fake, but also real breaking of our fast?

Barry Conrad
I'm so ready and I'm hungry too. It's now Melanie and Phyllis is out there just to give you some inside baseball.

It's 12 p.m. here in Australia right now. Melanie, what time is it where you are? Nine o'clock p.m. That's so crazy. There you go. Just a bit of insight.

Melanie Avalon
I know I call you Australia when I'm, if I'm like saying that I have a, if I like can't do something with somebody, I'm like, I, I'm like, I'm, um, got my Australia tonight.

Barry Conrad
That's pretty funny. That's hilarious.

Melanie Avalon
talking with Australia. I love it. Works well. Works well with our, it's a good thing I have such a crazy circadian rhythm.

Barry Conrad
Yeah. Otherwise you'd be like, it's too late. Can we do like one PM my time?

Melanie Avalon
I don't know what we're going to do when you move to the US, so I have to figure that out.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, what are we going to do? We can do it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah we'll figure it out okay so well I'm inspired because our last our last episode you gave me the green light to do Disney restaurants.

Barry Conrad
Of course, let's do it. I was hoping that you'd bring another one.

Melanie Avalon
I'm going to like slowly, I mean, I know you're already on board, but I'm going to make, I'm going to turn Barry Conrad into an Epcot like fanboy by the time we move here and then you're just going to have to go. So let me send you the link.

Actually let me explain first. So this menu is not, okay, let me explain. One of my favorite restaurants in Epcot, which to recap, Epcot is the experimental prototype community of tomorrow, one of the four Disney World Parks. And it has an area called the World Showcase where there are 11 countries in a row. Each country is, it looks like you're in that country. The people who work there are from that country, they're dressed up, there's like restaurants and stores. Some have rides. It's incredible. And the restaurants are just really amazing. And they're very authentic. So actually I'll save it. It's like the Mexican restaurant, for example. It's like authentic Mexican. It's not like Tex-Mex, like American food. One of my favorites is called the Beer Garden Restaurant. It's in Germany. And it is set up to look like, it looks so cool, Barry, like you could Google it. It looks like you are at an outdoor, like in Germany, outside, but you're inside. But it looks like it's outside and it looks like it's nighttime. And it looks like there's like buildings and everything and then there's a big stage. And they do like a show every night, like multiple times. And they do like a beer garden show with like music and Lederhosen and singing and like cheers and it's the most best time. And then there's a buffet of German food that you get food from.

Barry Conrad
I'm looking at photos right now, Mel. It looks awesome. It looks epic.

Melanie Avalon
Doesn't it look so cool?

Barry Conrad
All the lights in there, it's amazing, it's awesome.

Melanie Avalon
And it literally feels like you're outdoors, but it's indoors. It's so cool. I love it. It's wonderful.

And then the show. So I set you the list of what they have on the on the buffet. So what all would you eat from the buffet here? Let me turn it to dinner.

Barry Conrad
Lunch menu. Okay, let's turn to dinner.

Melanie Avalon
And it's a partial listing. So these are like the main things that they always have, but then they'll have, they probably have like double this, but they'll have specific things that night. So these are the staples.

So actually I can read the staples. So like the staples, they have seasonal salads, rotisserie chicken, potatoes, schnitzel, traditional sausages, sauerkraut, schnitzel, noodle gratin, and assorted desserts.

Barry Conrad
What would I have? I would, I would have all, I don't know what's that's all is and noodle grats and what are those smells, you know?

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. So this is so funny to me. So my family is German. We would go to Germany a lot growing up, and my dad took me to Germany when I was five. And I remember being so upset because like when I first went with my dad, all he fed me over there in Germany was bratwurst, like bratwurst and vice first, which is like white bratwurst. And I mean, I liked bratwurst, but I didn't like love bratwurst. Like it wasn't my favorite thing.

And then I realized when I was older that they had this thing called schnitzel. I know you asked about schnitzel, but they have schnitzel, which is basically like fried chicken and it's delicious. And this was before my like dietary changes. And like half of the time it's like stuffed with cheese. And I was like, dad, how, like parents, how are you like only feeding me bratwurst when I could have been having this like amazing fried chicken and fried ham schnitzel or like schnitzel, which is like a pasta dish. It has like eggs and flour and milk and butter. It's usually when I've had it, like when I had it there, it was always warm. Sometimes it has like a sauce on it. It's really usually really yummy. Sometimes it has like a cheesy sauce. It's really good.

Barry Conrad
I'm Googling a photo of it. Ah, this looks really good. It almost looks like macaroni and cheese vibes, like in terms of creamy, ta-da-da, na?

Melanie Avalon
It's like that without being super cheesy but it's like very creamy and I wasn't sure what noodle gratin was. I looked it up and literally Disney World comes up so I feel like they came up with it.

I don't know. It looks like it's um potatoes or gratin but with noodles instead.

Barry Conrad
So I would go off this buffet list, pretty much everything there. I would try everything there.

So the seasonal salads, rotisserie chicken, potatoes, schnitzel, for sure. By the way, Melanie, schnitzels are massive in Australia.

Melanie Avalon
Oh, really? Yeah. Wait, is it the same thing?

Barry Conrad
Yeah, it's like chicken snitty. You want to get a chicken snitty? We said chicken snitty.

Melanie Avalon
don't have that here in the US. Even when I say fried chicken, I realize I'm glad you I'm glad you're saying this because when I say fried chicken, it's not what Americans are thinking up.

It's like, it's like a fried patty like, like a fried no, how do I say it?

Barry Conrad
It's like breaded as well, right? It's not like, yeah.

Melanie Avalon
It's like taking a chicken breast and breading it. So it's flat and square, usually. It's not like fried chicken, like Kentucky fried chicken. It's not like that. It's like pounded, usually.

Barry Conrad
It's actually really good. Actually, you saw right. I've never seen it in America. It's not a thing there.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, which is like so weird because it's very in line with what we would like here. Something strange that it hasn't taken off.

Barry Conrad
I also didn't know you were German learned something again about you didn't know i did not know that till now there we go.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, I just think it's so funny, though, that my parents, like, why were they making me eat bratwurst the whole time when I could have been having schnitzel and spatzel?

Barry Conrad
traditional sauce, just sauerkraut nuts, so I mean, it could take it to leave it for me. I want to try the spazzle and I want to, out of curiosity, try the noodle gratin, whatever that is. Yeah, what about you?

Melanie Avalon
Well, what's funny, it's funny how far I've come with sauerkraut. So I remember being again, growing up German, being so grossed out by sauerkraut and thinking like how horrible and disgusting it looked. And now I'm like, I think it's like the best thing ever.

And it's so good for your gut microbiome, you know, fermented. I would eat probably eat the, well, they have allergy friendly options. So I would ask for allergy friendly versions of, I probably just eat the chicken and sauerkraut.

Barry Conrad
Really? What about the traditional sausages? Is that too much from your past? No more. I'm done with that.

Melanie Avalon
I would like to try it. It's just with the sausages, you don't really know what all is in there. So I wouldn't know if it had a lot of like sugar added and stuff. If I knew it was like just sausage, I would definitely like to try it.

But the good thing, the one thing I love about Disney is they are very good at working with dietary restrictions. They're like all about it. They'll like give you a tour. So like when you I've been given the tour at the buffet, they'll like come out and they'll tour you through the buffet and point at what is on your diet or not. It's crazy.

Barry Conrad
That's really good. I like that.

Melanie Avalon
I do too, but they're Disney.

Barry Conrad
What about the assorted dessert? What kind of desserts do they have, do you know?

Melanie Avalon
It's been so long. I'm trying to remember if I remember anything. I've been there so many times though. I do know I feel like there was like a pudding that was good, but they probably change it now.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, because I wonder like I'm part German, but don't really know it. Yeah, but I don't know anything about that, but it's not really a cultural thing.

So I don't know what sort of desserts to expect the German type motif. I don't, you know.

Melanie Avalon
Well, so I'm looking at pictures and it looks like they have, these are just pictures on Google. I see some, let's just look up common German desserts, because that's probably what they have, common German.

So common German desserts are things like, I don't know how to say these words, chocolate, lebuken. There's some sort of chocolate cakes, plum tarts, cookies, stolen, they probably have that. It's like a bread that has fruit in it, kind of like fruit cake, but not really. It's harder, has fruit and nuts and spices and then icing on it.

Barry Conrad
They got cheesecakes. I'm looking at, there's quite a few German cheesecakes. Is that a thing there? Quite big? Yeah. I'm all for the dessert, so let's do it. I'll try the assorted.

Melanie Avalon
I will watch you have them. I will, this is what we can do. I think this will be fun.

You can get all of them, and then I will tell you which ones I think I would like. And then you can try them all and let me know which ones you like, and then we'll compare notes.

Barry Conrad
And then you'll try some too? Okay, what else would you like to try? There's some beverages there. How about beverages?

Melanie Avalon
So they do have a Pinot Noir from Germany, I would have to look it up and see if anything's organic. Would you get some beer?

Barry Conrad
I would in the theme of being at this place for sure, and I'm not normally a beer guy, but I'm definitely gonna have some beer here because I saw it in the photo too. So I'm like, yeah, I'll do that.

Melanie Avalon
You've got to have it because during the show they do this whole thing where they like sing and then they're like Broast and everybody like like broasts and everybody sings the thing together. Oh and they do that.

They do the um The chicken song what's that like that? Dada? Dada? Dada? Dada? Dada? Do you know that song? Yeah, I have cool it. Dada. Dada. Dada. Dada. Yeah, they do that and like everybody sings it Apparently, it's I guess it's german. I don't know

Barry Conrad
Would you get a beer as well to try it on up.

Melanie Avalon
No, no, no, no. I, yeah, I don't like beer. I like active, not only, I mean, it has gluten in it, but I actively dislike beer. Like I dislike it.

Barry Conrad
Whoa, why? Why actively? It's like quite, you know.

Melanie Avalon
I know. And I like most foods and drinks.

I just don't like the taste of it. Well, what's interesting is I do have a gluten and a wheat sensitivity. And so it's literally just brewed wheat. So I think my body is telling me that I should not be eating it.

Like my body does not like wheat. Fair enough. So I don't like the taste.

Barry Conrad
You know, Mel, I don't like, I'm not a beer guy, but while I was moving, I bought, I bought a six pack. That says a lot, right? You got to. I did it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, it like blows my mind like I can't wrap my mind around enjoying the taste of beer and I like I know people like crave like a cold beer on a summer day and like literally that sounds miserable sour beers. If I had to, I do a sour beer.

Do they have a sour beer? What's that? It's kind of more like wine.

Barry Conrad
Is it a brand or is that a type of beer?

Melanie Avalon
No, it's a type of beer. I don't see one. So I actually, I worked in a beer bar. That was my first serving job.

So I learned a lot about beer, which was helpful, even though I don't drink it. So sour beers are kind of, they're very like fruity and they're, yeah, they're more like wine. You would, you should keep your eyes if you see, like next time you go to a restaurant, like that has a lot of beer, see if they have a sour beer.

Barry Conrad
I did a couple of years ago when I went back to New Zealand for Christmas, this hotel invited me there for this beer tasting situation. It was really fun actually, because I don't normally drink beer, but they had like six to eight beers, and we just went through them all, and it was actually pretty interesting.

Melanie Avalon
Do they have one that was soury, kind of fruity?

Barry Conrad
Not sorry, but there were there were fruitier ones. Maybe it's maybe that's just a thing. I'm sure there is, though. It's Australia. Australia, we love our beer here. I'm sure there is.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, Australia, I just find Australia so like interesting. Really? Yeah. Feel like everybody's like happy and hot and drunk and.

Barry Conrad
That's so funny. And what's the alternative in America? Like what? Everyone's like at IHOP?

Melanie Avalon
Okay, because you guys seem like genuinely happy. Here, we're like happy, but also like have like a lot a chip on our shoulder, and our petty and then lots of different seasons.

So not just hot drinking on and off.

Barry Conrad
We have different seasons, but it's not just like so I feel like you feel like it's somewhere here all the time and everyone's like running around and like board shorts.

Melanie Avalon
I do feel that. That's probably completely wrong. I realize I have completely wrong perspective, but I'm just telling you my stereotype from my head.

Barry Conrad
So you wouldn't get so you wouldn't get a base on this menu here would you have a wine maybe a pinot noir.

Melanie Avalon
Maybe. I have to look up the two. They only have two right now. So maybe the Pinot Noir, this might be a sneak in my wine situation.

Barry Conrad
I really want to see this happen like the compartment, how you do it.

Melanie Avalon
Yeah, well, I will I will show you I'm not right now when I'm thinking about I'm thinking about because I haven't been to Disney since I started this. I'm trying to think about the security at the front. How that works.

I think I could do it. The bad that I'm telling like thousands of people this it's too late now. I'm just doing it to support my health. Yeah, it's health reasons.

Barry Conrad
Yeah, I would get the Pinot Grigio, by the way, I get a glass of that

Melanie Avalon
Yeah. I might have to look at the whites here. Yeah. So and to emphasize, friends, the importance of the eating window because the benefits of fasting are not just in the fast. You need that eating window to actually get all of the benefits.

So cheers to everybody. This was so, so amazing. Listeners, friends, if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can email questions at ipodcast.com, or you can go to ipodcast.com. You can submit questions there. And the show notes will be at ipodcast.com slash episode 423. To get that free defeat your cravings book, go to ipodcast.com slash cravings. And you can follow us on Instagram. I am Melanie Avalon. Barry is Barry underscore Conrad. And we are I have podcast. So I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Barry, before we go

Barry Conrad
No, thanks again so much for tuning in everyone. You're awesome. Have an amazing rest of your day and we'll see you next time.

Melanie Avalon
I will talk to you next week.

Barry Conrad
I think I'll talk to you then, bye.

Melanie Avalon
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed.

If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

May 26

Episode 423 – Understanding Atkins Vs. Keto Vs. Paleo, Testing Ketones, Fasting And Binging, Keto Vs. Fasting Vs. Both For Fat Loss, The Most Stressful Life Events, And More!

⁠Defeat Your Cravings: Free Book

Welcome to Episode 423 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, biohacker, founder of AvalonX, and author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine, and Barry Conrad, actor, singer-songwriter, and creator and host of Banter with BC.

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LINKS

Featured Restaurant: ⁠Biergarten Restaurant

⁠MABP Episode 297 ⁠

STUDIES:

⁠Study on the Influence of Ketogenic Diet and Intermittent Fasting on the Change of Body Fat Rate