Episode 336: Eating Timing, Skipping Lunch, Pregnancy, Gestational Diabetes, Keto, Carnivore, Low Carb, App Creation, Scammers, Interviews, And More!

Intermittent Fasting


Help Make The Intermittent Fasting Podcast Possible!

Hi Friends! We put a ton of time and energy into researching and producing The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. You can help support us on Patreon! Every dollar helps!

Sep 24

Welcome to Episode 336 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

LMNT: For Fasting Or Low-Carb Diets Electrolytes Are Key For Relieving Hunger, Cramps, Headaches, Tiredness, And Dizziness. With No Sugar, Artificial Ingredients, Coloring, And Only 2 Grams Of Carbs Per Packet, Try LMNT For Complete And Total Hydration. For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase! Also GRAPEFRUIT IS HERE TO STAY!

Yummers: Co-founded by Antoni Porowski and Jonathan Van Ness, Yummers provides premium-quality, tasty, healthy “Gourmet” and “Functional" mix-Ins to support the utmost health of your pet! Yummers uses premium-grade animal proteins, real fruits and veggies, and each ingredient is processed separately from one another to maximize flavor and nutritional value. Get 20% off sitewide AND a free sample of Yummers NEW dog food at yummerspets.com/ifpodcast with the code ifpodcast20!

TONE DEVICE: Introducing the Brand New Second Generation Tone Device! If you practice regular IF, TRE, prolonged fasting and or low carb/keto, your body makes a metabolic switch to primarily burning fat for fuel! Being metabolically flexible means you can readily tap into stored fat for energy. With the Tone device you simply breathe into the device when fasting and receive an instant reading on your breath ketones. You may test an unlimited amount of times, with one investment in a Tone. Get on the exclusive VIP list to be notified when the 2nd Generation is available to order and receive the launch discount at tonedevice.com!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 


BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter And Use The Code CLEANFORALL20 For 20% Off, PLUS Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz

Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

LMNT: For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase! Also GRAPEFRUIT IS HERE TO STAY! Learn All About Electrolytes In Episode 237 - Our Interview With Robb Wolf!

YUMMERS: Get 20% Off Sitewide AND A Free Sample Of Yummers NEW Dog Food At Yummerspets.Com/Ifpodcast With The Code IFPODCAST20!

TONE DEVICE: Get On The Exclusive VIP List To Be Notified When The 2nd Generation Is Available To Order And Receive The Launch Discount At tonedevice.com!

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #215 - Vanessa Spina

Stay Up To Date With All The News On The New EMF Collaboration With R Blank And Get The Launch Specials Exclusively At melanieavalon.com/emfemaillist!

Listener Feedback: Jewels - Barry Conrad

Listener Q&A: Neva - While I would be interested in testing the impact of having my eating window earlier, I have NO idea how anyone does that around a weekday job!

Danger Coffee: Danger Coffee is clean, mold-free, remineralized coffee created by legendary biohacker Dave Asprey, and engineered to fuel your dangerous side! Get 10% off at melanIeavalon.com/dangercoffee with the code melanieavalon!

Early Vs Late-Night Eating: Contradictions, Confusions, And Clarity

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.


Welcome to Episode 336 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of What When Wine, and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my cohost, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of Keto Essentials, and creator of the Tone breath ketone analyzer and Tone Lux red light therapy panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 336 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Vanessa Spina.

Vanessa Spina: Hi, everyone.

Melanie Avalon: Vanessa, I had the most fabulous time interviewing you yesterday. 

Vanessa Spina: It was such a magical experience. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. It was such a treat and an honor to get to be on your incredible podcast. And I had the best time, seriously I had the best night. So, thank you. 

Melanie Avalon: Yes. So, I think assuming the lineup doesn't change, I think it will have already aired actually on September 15th. So, if friends would like to check it out. I had Vanessa on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, and we dived deep into so many things, especially her Tone breath ketone device and all the different types of ketones, and then all these random questions that she and I apparently historically have thought about in rabbit holes about protein and gluconeogenesis and all that stuff. So, it was so fun. Thank you again. 

Vanessa Spina: Thank you. [chuckles] And it amazes me constantly how similar we are. I was re-listening to an interview that I did with our mutual friend Dr. Dom D'Agostino a couple of years ago. It was actually three years ago. It was the first time I had him on the podcast and we started talking about CGMs, and I was like, "I really believe that if every person in the world wore CGMs." [laughter] Melanie literally said that last week when we were recording. It's just crazy. I mean, that's before we even really got to be friends. I think like three, three and half years ago. I was like, "Oh, my gosh, we are the same person. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: We really are. Especially yesterday when you made the comment about how you said you found keto and you felt like you had like, a flashlight finally. Like literally, there's like this image in my head where I see myself finding the urinary ketone strip and being like, "Duhh." And the light comes on in the dark. [laughter] 

Vanessa Spina: We both were like, "I can scientifically measure my-

Melanie Avalon: My fat burning.

Vanessa Spina: -fat burning" [laughter] Oh, my gosh, we are twins separated at birth or something.

Melanie Avalon: I know, it's so fabulous. 

Vanessa Spina: [laughs] But yeah, thanks again for having me on the podcast. It was such an honor. 

Melanie Avalon: No, thank you. It was so fun. And then I was so excited because I was like, "We get to talk today."

Vanessa Spina: I know. You do such a phenomenal job with your podcast. Like I was saying yesterday on your podcast that I was telling Pete, you literally are, I think, the best interviewer I've ever heard or listened to. And I'm sure all of the listeners right now are nodding their heads in agreement because they know your level of preparation and research and just in-depth questions. I always try to ask different questions than people ask on every other podcast. But you do that and you do it so well and you're just such an amazing listener, interviewer, everything. So, it was truly a delightful experience to get to be interviewed by you. I feel so lucky because I got to be interviewed by you for this podcast and now for your podcast. And yeah, both times were just such a treat.

Melanie Avalon: You are so sweet. And I really do remember when you had me on your show. Thank you. Was that the first time we really met? 

Vanessa Spina: I think so, because I think before that, we had tried to schedule in the past, but our schedules were just so [laughs] opposite that I think we had emailed a few times about it and I had asked you to come on the podcast. And I was like, "I record in the morning," and you were like, "I record in the afternoon." And we were just like, "Yeah, this is not going to happen, but let's just put it out there into the universe and maybe it'll line up at some point." And then I'm not sure what happened, but we made the line up, I guess. Yeah. And then I think we just started voice noting and chatting a weekly basis after that. Now we talk every day. But yeah, it's really amazing. And it's so nice to make amazing connections as an adult. When you're a kid, people come in and out of your life all the time and it's so easy to make connections with people and have things in common. When you're older and you're an adult and you have your own life and your career going on. I don't know, it's just not the same. So, it's really special when someone comes into your life that's like an instant bestie. And yeah, I just love continuing our friendship and I love that we get [chuckles] to talk every week for a couple of hours on this podcast. 

Melanie Avalon: I agree so much. And now it is coming back to me because I remember you emailed and you were saying the time difference, and you were saying, could we do it like, I think you're saying like 8:00 or 9:00 AM.? I was like, "No, yeah." [laughter]

Vanessa Spina: Yeah. And you were like, "How about 7:00 or 8:00 PM?" And I was like, "Oh, no, I can't do that." But yeah, we've made it work, thankfully. And it was worth it. It's been so worth it. More than worth it. 

Melanie Avalon: The thing I remember, though, from that interview was similar to things you just said, like how great your questions were. And I was like, "Oh, they were things I would think about, but nobody had definitely ever asked me. Or they were things I hadn't even thought about before." Because normally you get a lot of the same questions over and over from people, which isn't bad.

Vanessa Spina: No, I feel the same way. Like yesterday when you asked me about the ratios and if they differed from person to person, I was like, "This is the stuff [laughs] that I think about all the time." But I feel like nobody else, except for maybe like, Dom might think about these things. [laughs] And he's a ketone scientist in a lab. Anyway yeah, it's amazing and I hope people enjoy the episode. And I was saying to you last night, I really want to interview you again in the future on my podcast, especially when you come out with your EMF blocking headphones. This is something that I literally think about every day. Every day when I'm out, I see maybe like it seems like 50% or 60% of the people I see have AirPods in. 

Melanie Avalon: I know.

Vanessa Spina: It almost, it seems like everyone and also because I'm usually commuting when I'm out, I'm, like, on the tram and I'm going here and there and everybody is wearing Bluetooth headphones and Peter and I, like, "We were those people too," until we started understanding more about how it's, like, microwaving your brain so [laughs] and just, like, really bad for your mitochondria. Anyway, I just would love to have you back on to talk all about EMFs and how dangerous they are, how disruptive they can be to our mitochondria and your whole entrepreneurial journey with so many of the products you've done. But now you're going into tech products, which is like my favorites-- [crosstalk]

Melanie Avalon: Tech Duos Inspiring Vision. [laughter] Never gets old, never gets old.

Vanessa Spina: For anyone who doesn't know that's the AI poem that Melanie-- 

Melanie Avalon: ChatGPT]

Vanessa Spina: --had written about Elon Musk and I. So yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Sorry. It called Tech Duos Inspiring Vision. [laughter] Oh, yeah.

Vanessa Spina: So funny.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I'm really, really thrilled about this. This tech world. Yeah so, for listeners, I'll just tell them briefly the IARC classifies EMFs as Group 2B, which means possibly carcinogenic to humans, which means there're quite a few studies showing that they are possibly carcinogenic. If you go and look at these studies, there are many showing insinuating, they are carcinogenic. And I mentioned this before as well, but even if you go in your phone and go into the settings and go into the legal section, there is a disclaimer in your phone basically saying it's better to use your phone on speakerphone or not by your head because of the RF exposure. It tells you that in the phone. And this is Apple telling you this. So, the headphones I'm releasing will be air tubes that do not emit any EMFs, and they're going to come in black and rose gold. And we actually just finished the-- well, I'm signing off, hopefully on the packaging today. So next steps are coming. I'm excited. 

Vanessa Spina: I love rose gold. My Tone is black and rose gold is my favorite one. 

Melanie Avalon: Wait, rose gold is my favorite. It's like my favorite life color, like, to integrate into my life. 

Vanessa Spina: Yeah, I'm not surprised. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: It's so great. 

Vanessa Spina: It is beautiful. Yeah. 

Melanie Avalon: For listeners who are interested, if you want to get the launch special, definitely get on my email list for it. That's at melanieavalon.com/emfemaillist, so go there. Oh, and actually, hopefully you didn't miss it. Hopefully you're on my email list. But I actually just did a summit with R Blank at Shield your Body. They have a lot of really cool speakers all about awareness around EMFs and just health in general. I think it was about healthier tech was the summit. So hopefully you were on my email list for that. But anything else new with you, Vanessa? 

Vanessa Spina: I've been working furiously on the launch of the new second generation Tone device. I think we talked about it on a recent episode, but I'm just having so much fun with it because part of it is redesigning the boxes, which we just finished, and now we're redoing the manual. And I feel so excited about the manual because I feel like from the first generation to now, I've just learned so much about sort of like, helpful things and ways to educate, and inform more about the product itself. As I was saying, it takes a lot of education because it's a new product. So, I'm almost done rewriting the manual, but it's been a really fun experience to be like, "Okay, you can figure out your individual baseline, which we're talking about your podcast last night, if you do 24-hour fast, or you can do an MCT challenge, which I think is so cool and so much fun." I've done it so many times with the Tone, especially now because I'm pregnant. Normally, I just do an extended fast when I'm testing the higher ketones on the latest iteration or model, but this time, because I'm pregnant, I've been doing the MCT challenge instead. So, I basically have like two tablespoons of MCT oil powder in coffee, usually decaf because it's in the afternoon. And then I just test blood ketones and breath ketones every like 15 minutes for the next 2 hours. [chuckles] 

I'm literally having so much fun doing this whenever I do it and it's like every 30 minutes, you see it go up in the blood and then you see it go up a little bit delayed in the breath, and then they match up. There's a little bit of a time lag with the breath, because the breath, as were talking about, is a byproduct of the blood ketones. So, you see it-- like you drink it and then you see it go through your liver and the ketones hit your blood, and then they start diffusing through your airways. So, it's just a really fun way to figure out your baseline with the Tone, but also your ratio. So, you know, okay, this is at the peak, it usually happens about 2 hours after you're like, "Okay, this is what my readings on the Tone device look like when my blood is like 1.1 millimolar ketones." And if you have a ratio of 1:1, it'll also be like for me, I was doing it last night, it was like 12 and 13 when I had like a 1.1 millimolar in the blood. So, my ratio right now is pretty close to 1:1. And that makes total sense because when you are eating a eucaloric diet at maintenance or surplus, which I am doing right now because I'm growing a baby, you tend to have a closer ratio there, the 1:1. So, anyway, I'm having so much fun writing the manual, having so much fun with all the little pieces. Like, this is the stuff that I love, just this process of it. And then the launch is always really, really fun and getting people excited about it too. But I just feel like I'm in heaven [laughs] dealing with these aspects of it. It's just so fun and exciting and you know exactly what I'm talking about because you're doing it too. 

Melanie Avalon: Do you have an app for it? 

Vanessa Spina: Do you remember what I told you about the app?

Melanie Avalon: Vaguely, I remember we talked about it. 

Vanessa Spina: So, I was working on the app for the last two years so that the latest version would be Bluetooth. And the programmer that I hired, I had been working with him for years, and we basically got like 99% done with the app. I haven't actually shared this on my podcast yet because I'm still mentally dealing [laughs] with it. We got 99% done. He uploaded it. My designer did all the slides, the artwork, everything, they built the back end, the whole app itself. And as he was putting it onto the Apple Store, there were some issues with privacy or something because it's like a health app, so it's collecting health data. And during that process, I think he got so frustrated by the process that he just effed off and disappeared. [laughs] So, yeah.

Melanie Avalon: No, I didn't know that, I don't think.

Vanessa Spina: I spent thousands and thousands of capital on it and he just disappeared. 

Melanie Avalon: Had you paid him?

Vanessa Spina: Oh, yeah. 

Melanie Avalon: And he took the money and ran? 

Vanessa Spina: Yeah. And there was still more that-- it wasn't the full amount. I was just paying him weekly because him and his team were working on it weekly. I never imagined that he would do all the work on it and then just leave. And I've tried multiple times to contact him and just be like, "Can you just give me what you did and then I can have someone else finish it."


Melanie Avalon: You don't have access to what he did. 

Vanessa Spina: Um-Um. I do have our images and slides because my designer worked on those, but I basically have to start from scratch. And at this point, it would have delayed the second generation way too much. Like, it would have delayed it by another year because it's two components. Like, it's the app component and it's the Bluetooth component. And so, I just kind of said, "Okay, this is like a business lesson, I just have to learn from it and move on right now." And maybe the third generation will have the Bluetooth in it, but I think it's okay. The Tone itself has memory in it. So just like when you test your blood glucose or ketones, you can go back and look at the memory. Like, you can keep a written log if you want to. You don't necessarily have to have the app. It's something I still want to do because I wanted to build it. The idea was to build it specifically for my community of users that's using the Tone, so that together we could share our results and our experiments. And, yeah, it was really disappointing, but not everything goes your way, [chuckles] and sometimes you learn big lessons, and I will definitely learn from it and not make the same mistake again. But I just trust people a lot, [laughs] maybe too much. And I never thought that someone would do that. But, yeah, here we are. So unfortunately, it's not going to have the app, but hopefully maybe in a year or so, if I can find someone reliable that can sort of pick up where we left off and build it again or finish it at least, because it's true. I do have the artwork and the images, so at least it's not totally lost. 

Melanie Avalon: First of all, I am so sorry. That is-

Vanessa Spina: Thanks.

Melanie Avalon: -awful. I am so sorry. It's not good timing, but it's appropriate timing because I've been thinking of doing, I'm really excited because there's an app I've been wanting to make for years, and there's also a person I've been wanting to partner with in some capacity also for years. And it just so turns out that this app that I want to make, this other person also wants to make. So, we're like, tentatively talking about making it. And so, I've been looking into the app creation process. And so, I did a call this week, actually, with Dr. Caroline Leaf, who I recently had on the show. I adore her with somebody from her team because they have an app. And I was getting advice, and one of the things she said was, make sure you have everything stored with the app on-- it's this website where it's basically for storing that type of stuff, like source coding stuff. And she's like, "Make sure that you have complete control and ownership and access and login so that you always have all of this stuff all the time." And sounds like hearing your experience, definitely. 

Vanessa Spina: That's my lesson that I'm here to learn. And you can learn from my mistake without even having to experience it. So, I'm glad. And maybe someone out there listening will also [laughs] take away from my mistake. But it's definitely a part of business. You learn the most from your failures. And I think the first few times I attempted setting up a business, they didn't work out the way that I thought they would. And that's how you become a good business owner, a good entrepreneur, is from your mistakes, from learning from them. Sometimes you don't have to make them. Sometimes you learn from other people's. But yeah, it's all part of the process. But I will definitely be doing that next time. So, I'll be getting the name of that program from you for sure. 

Melanie Avalon: It's GitHub. This will make you feel better. I fell once for a scammer. Like one of those scammers in India-type situations. And I don't mean that politically, like, literally, it's like they're in India usually and they're scamming you. And I was literally-- it was the situation-- have I talked about this before? 

Vanessa Spina: I don't think so. I don't know.

Melanie Avalon: It was like a situation where I understand how people get in these things and just go so far. It's because you get in it so far and you know that you're probably being scammed. You're in it so far that if you admit that to yourself, then you'd rather just keep on and maybe it's not a scam. So, it was literally to the point where I was driving to a gas station at 2:00 AM to put cash in a bitcoin machine and send it to India, because I thought they were going to do the things they were telling me. They're very good at--

Vanessa Spina: They're going to build something for you or make something for you?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Vanessa Spina: I was using a third-party service where you are matched up with contractors. And I use that for a lot of my contractors. And I had been working with this contractor for years, and they had delivered on everything. They were like one of the top-rated programmers on this website. Everything that they did was like perfect, flawless, amazing. And I don't even think that they wanted to do this, but I thought that the third-party service would offer me protection. And what I figured out too late is that you can get a refund or request a refund on the week before, I think up to two or three weeks' worth of work. But if it's been like six months, which it had been, you can't go back and get refunds anymore on any of those weekly installments. So, I was paying them out weekly and every week they were delivering like, here are the slides, here's the latest progress. Every week it was moving along and I don't know why [chuckles] you won't just finish it, but at some point, you have to just be like, "Okay, this is too stressful, it's not worth it, it's not going to go anywhere. They're just stonewalling me now, so I just have to cut my losses and move on." It could have been worse, [laughs] probably could have been worse, but thankfully I can move on from it and start again. But it just means that for my users of the Tone, who've been waiting for the app and for the Bluetooth version, it's just going to be a little bit longer wait, but that's okay. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, like I said, I lost thousands when I had that scam moment, so I completely empathize.

Vanessa Spina: Yeah. I mean, that's the beauty and the sort of danger or the dark side of the internet. Like you can connect with people all over the world, you can get amazing things done, but sometimes there's a dark side to it too. There's definitely a dark side to it, so, yeah. 

Melanie Avalon: Will the device have an airplane mode? 

Vanessa Spina: So, the Tone does not have any frequency. And that's what's really interesting too, is that in order to set up Bluetooth on it, you have to get a number of compliance tests done, just like you have to do for the other stuff. In electronics, we already have all that stuff, but adding the Bluetooth would mean that it now falls under this because it's like producing frequency. It's producing Hertz. Anything that's producing frequency has to meet certain standards and reports and different certifications. So, there's all that sign to it as well, which right now with a baby coming, I don't mind not having to deal with all that right now too, because it's a lot. So, it's probably for the best that it's in the future. But the device as it is right now does not send out any frequencies, so there's no EMFs being produced from it because it's rechargeable. So, you charge it and then you use it and then you don't have to charge it usually for like two, three months. [chuckles] It's really amazing. The battery lasts forever, like forever and you don't have to be plugged in when you're using it and there's no frequency being emitted. So, it's basically like EMF free. 

Melanie Avalon: Well, maybe the extra time you have for developing the Bluetooth mode, you'll be able to develop an airplane mode with a Bluetooth mode. 

Vanessa Spina: That's a good idea.

Melanie Avalon: It'll be a further selling point. 

Vanessa Spina: Totally. I never thought about actually having that on it. 

Melanie Avalon: I mean, I know I'm the one that's like the crazy EMF all the time thing, but it's a big selling point for people, and you can turn it into a really big selling point, because especially in the biohacking world, which it's the type of people using this are a lot of biohackers, and a lot of them are very concerned about EMFs. So, if you have, like, an airplane mode, it's like, "Ooh, you want the extra step."

Vanessa Spina: I get it. I feel like all my technology that I handle every day is on airplane mode a lot. Throughout the day, obviously all night. [laughs] I don't want anything touching my person that can't be on airplane mode. So, yeah, I feel the same way. 

Melanie Avalon: So maybe it's for the better you know. 

Vanessa Spina: I like it. Yes. Thank you. I'm writing all these tips down. I'll definitely make sure it has an airplane mode or an option to turn it off. 

Melanie Avalon: That'd be so exciting. 

Vanessa Spina: Yes. And that's probably important for the plane too and stuff, because you have to bring it in the cabin. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Vanessa Spina: You can't pack it in your suitcase. You have to bring it in the cabin with you whenever you're flying. So, it would definitely have to have an airplane mode. [laughs] Thanks for that. 

Melanie Avalon: Yes, I'm excited. Okay. 

Vanessa Spina: So nice to have brilliant friends. [laughter]

Melanie Avalon: Likewise. We're like a think tank. 

Vanessa Spina: Yes. 

Melanie Avalon: So, shall we get to some listener questions and feedback? 

Vanessa Spina: Let's dig in. 

Melanie Avalon: Okay, so we're actually going to start off with some listener feedback. This literally came in right before we started recording, so I thought I would read it really quickly. And it's because on the day that we're recording, we aired a special guest interview on this show with Barry Conrad, who's an actor, singer, songwriter from Australia. This is from Jules. And she just said, "I enjoyed your podcast with Barry so much. Definitely one of my favorite episodes. Please bring him back on again. Love the show." And then we got some other feedback about that as well. And first of all, thank you, Jules, for writing in and the support. And I'm so glad you enjoyed the interview with Barry. That was a really cool, fun episode because he's killing it as far as acting and TV roles. And we talked a lot about his fasting journey. And he had the stereotypical moment because he's an actor.

He had that moment that's like, such a cliche, where was it, like an agent or a casting director, but told him, "Oh, maybe you need to lose a little weight," which is just, like, really sticks with your psyche. So, we talked a lot about the psychology and also it was really nice because I feel like a lot of this is often girls. We talk a lot about women's perspective, and women talk about that a lot. So, it was nice to talk about it from a male perspective. And he talked about how intermittent fasting is, how he used it in his life, and he's a big foodie, so we talked about food. And it was a really, really fun episode. If you guys like that. Well, even if you don't, because it's already in the lineup, hopefully you guys liked it. But we are thinking of having some more guests here and there on the show that I'm really excited about. I'll actually do a call right now. If you have questions about CGMs, send them to us because we're going to do a special episode about that. If you have questions about autoimmune conditions, diet for autoimmune conditions, specifically, like a ketogenic diet, we're bringing Dr. Terry Wahls onto the show, who we adore. And then we have my incredible friend Rebecca coming on. So, she is founder of a company called Yummers, which is this incredible-- they make pet food toppers, but I think now they're going to launch actual pet food, but it's all like healthy food for your pets. And she founded it with Antoni Porowski and JVN from Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Vanessa, have you ever watched that show? 

Vanessa Spina: I haven't. 

Melanie Avalon: I haven't either. I feel like it's been on for ever. I feel like it was on when I was in middle school. 

Vanessa Spina: [laughs] Yeah, probably. 

Melanie Avalon: In any case, she founded it with Antoni and JVN, who are two of the main people on that show now and she does fasting. We're great friends and she found me because she listened to the show. Yeah, she's wonderful. And she does fasting and biohacking and so we're going to bring her on and talk about fasting and biohacking and pet food and her entrepreneurial journey. So, I'm really excited. So, any questions about that, about female entrepreneurship? This woman is like an inspiration. She's been top level, like VP level at Target and HEB and 7-Eleven. She's a wonder. So, we're bringing her on. And then I am going to have my first in-person interview ever. Vanessa, have you done an-- We talked about this. Have you done an in-person interview?

Vanessa Spina: I'm trying to think and [chuckles] I don't think I have. I mean, I have on other people's shows, but never when I was hosting, like on my show unless it was like a video. And then, yeah, I have at conferences done some videos with people, but not really not a formal like, let's step into a studio, let's get a sound tech here. 

Melanie Avalon: Let's get a team. 

Vanessa Spina: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: So, I am going to be doing an in-person interview with Dave Asprey, which is kind of crazy because I'm actually thinking, spoiler alert of moving to Austin. Pretty sure I'm going to. And he lives in Austin, so I need to feel out Austin. And we wanted to have him on this show anyways because he has not been on this show and he is such a legend in the biohacking world and the fasting world. And he has his new Danger Coffee, which I am obsessed with. Friends, get Danger Coffee. It's my new favorite coffee. Historically, I was drinking Bulletproof coffee for like a decade. A lot of people know this, but maybe if you don't-- He actually got kicked out of Bulletproof. It was like a lot of drama. He's trying to get it back now, I think is word on the street. But in the meantime, he launched Danger Coffee, which is essentially everything he did with Bulletproof coffee, which is organic. I mean, it's not certified organic. They use organic practices. And it's tested to be free of pesticides and mold and it's a remineralized coffee, which is so cool.

So, it is a patent pending formula that has more than 50 trace minerals, nutrients, and electrolytes, which I think is just so cool. And I love the taste of it. So, we're going to do a question on-- because I know we have a lot of coffee drinkers. So, if you have any questions about any questions for Dave in general, anything goes. He will literally answer. He'll talk about anything but, yeah, fasting, biohacking, and coffee. Send us those as well. And if you would like to try Danger Coffee, go to melanieavalon.com/dangercoffee and the coupon code MELANIEAVALON will get you 10% off. This makes a great present, by the way, because it can be hard to find presents for people. And this is like a really nice coffee. So, I'm going to be gifting this to so many people come Christmas time. But yes, friends, I'm definitely very nervous about that upcoming interview[sigh] just because I've never done one in person. So, it's going to be like a lot to take in.

Vanessa Spina: You can do dress rehearsals.

Melanie Avalon: With myself.

Vanessa Spina: Yeah. Or you could have, like, your sister or something. I'm sure you learned that extensively from theater and acting. But you could dress in what you're going to wear and pretend that your sister is your guest [Melanie laughs] Dave Asprey and come in and be like, do the whole rehearsal. Do it a few times, and then when it's time for lights, camera, action, you'll be all rehearsed and ready to go.

Melanie Avalon: That's true. I definitely need to make sure with the mic set up, that it's all good. I am going to bring-- Vanessa knows this. I'm going to bring with me my favorite photographer because it's hard to find a photographer that you feel really comfortable with. So, I'll feel good having somebody there that I know, who I know will make everything look nice. So that should be fun. Okay. So that's a teaser.

Vanessa Spina: I do that every time I'm going to be speaking. I do regular rehearsals and then I do dress rehearsals where I'm wearing what I'm going to be wearing and I have the slides. And then when I'm at the venue before giving the talk, I always ask if I can go on stage and do a last dress rehearsal there. So, I wear the outfit, I have the slides and everything. And usually the tech people are like, setting up the day before. So, they're like, "Sure, just come and do it." And they're happy that you're rehearsing because they want to rehearse too. I have to do that [laughs] to prepare myself. And I got that from being in drama and acting and stuff. So, I'm sure you did that extensively. 

Melanie Avalon: Wow. I was thinking about that recently. I was thinking about how-- because it's so weird, the opportunities that I've been having recently with reporters and press and interviews, and I'm so, so grateful and it's so surreal. And I was thinking about it, though, because I was thinking about how these are interviews that in the past-- I do think the rehearsal is really important, but I probably would have done that for days beforehand. And now, literally, I'm like, "I just show up." [laughs] I think it's because I don't want to get overly stressed. I do a lot of prep, but then I let it go, and then I just show up, which is how I approach the show, the interview with guests as well. But I do agree that's actually a really good idea. Now, should we answer some questions? I'm sorry. So, Jules, thank you for the feedback. We're glad you're enjoying it. And stay tuned for more guests. All right, so with all that in mind, so please submit questions to questions@ifpodcast.com, or you can go in our Facebook group and submit questions, but we would love questions for any of those topics. Would you like to read the question from Neva, Vanessa?

Vanessa Spina: Yes. So, Neva Warnock asks, "While I would be interested in testing the impact of having my eating window earlier, I have no idea how anyone does that around a weekday job. I get up a little after 5:00 AM. And hoof it to get the critters tended to, me ready and out the door by 6:30. Work 7:00 to 4:00, home 5:00ish. Eating before dinner would be so challenging and not relaxing. What are your thoughts?"

Melanie Avalon: Hi, Neva. Thank you for your question. I love this question because I think it ties into something that so many people experience, not even with just fasting, really with so many things in life where something works for you and is working in your life and it doesn't fit exactly with societal norms or people are saying that it should be a different way. And so, it makes you question what you're doing. It makes you wonder if you should be doing something different. So, for you, you really wanted to try this idea of an earlier eating window, likely because she doesn't say this, but she says the impact. So, I'm guessing it's probably just because hearing what people talk about the benefits of an earlier eating window, so you probably feel a little bit of pressure to try it, but you look at your whole life and logistically it doesn't make sense. You think it would probably be stressful and challenging and not relaxing.

So, my thoughts are you don't have to try an earlier eating window. [chuckles] I mean you don't need me to tell you that for permission, but I would just keep doing what you're doing, and I wouldn't stress about it. And we've talked a lot about the difference between earlier versus late-night eating windows. I did do a really long blog post that I really like about this. It's called Early Vs Late-Night Eating: Contradictions, Confusions, And Clarity. And I'll put a link to that in the show notes. The link for it is melanieavalon.com/eatingtiming. And I really dive deep into the studies on early versus late-night eating and the many factors that we often don't account for in those studies. Honestly, I walked in, I sat down, I tried to be as unbiased as possible. Just because of the zeitgeist surrounding early eating, I thought it was going to be a no brainer looking at the studies like, "Oh yeah, early eating is way better than late-night eating."

Like I thought that was just going to be overwhelmingly what I would find in the studies. And it wasn't bad to that extent because of all of the nuances. And by the nuances, I mean that the majority of the studies I found looking at early eating weren't ever really comparing it. Usually, they were comparing it like early eating to eating all throughout the day or there were very few studies that were actually comparing just early to just late in an intermittent fasting pattern. And then some studies I did find hormonally it actually seemed better to me, eating not late crazy like I do, but not right when you wake up either. So, I would just say that it's all about finding what works for you. And Neva it sounds like what you're doing works for you. So, I would not sweat it. I wouldn't be overstressed about it. Vanessa, what are your thoughts? 

Vanessa Spina: I was going to literally say [laughs] the exact same thing. You don't have to do it. You should only do it if it's something that really works for you, is easy to implement, don't feel pressured to try it. I love how you brought up the nuance, as you always do so well with how even though we do see a lot of research pointing to front loading of calories, especially when it comes to intermittent fasting and the beneficial effects on hormones, etc. I wouldn't say it's conclusive. There are very few things that are completely conclusive. I think there are other factors that can probably make a big difference as well. I found myself starting a new intermittent fasting pattern where I was having breakfast within an hour of waking and then going back into the fasted state 4 to 5 hours later because I was fasting until dinner. And I was recently interviewing one of my favorite protein scientists who I always talk about, Dr. Don Layman. This is what he does as well after spending 50 years researching protein. And he found that it's an amazing pattern for especially protecting your lean body mass. And after an overnight period of time when we're more catabolic. It's great to sort of blunt muscle protein breakdown by having a protein meal. It's also great for leptin if you have leptin resistance. But I found my way there by trying so many different things and trying things that would actually work for me and my family. And when I actually tried the breakfast and dinner pattern because, like you, I wanted to try it did not work for us as a family at all. But I do think that sometimes you can see how your life goes and maybe things will change at some point.

You'll have an opportunity where you'll be able to eat earlier in the day, but if you don't find it relaxing and dinner should be a relaxing meal where you're spending time with your family and you're nourishing yourself after a long day of working hard, I don't think you should feel any pressure at all to do that kind of approach. [chuckles] And it sounds like you think maybe or you have the perception maybe that a lot of people are doing that, and I don't think that they are. I've talked to so many people who said that they've tried it and it just doesn't work because dinner is our most social meal. Typically, it's when we get together with our loved ones, it's when we get together with friends. It's like usually when we go out with friends and catch up. So not having that dinner meal is really difficult. What I find for myself is that once in a while, like, on the weekend, the opportunity will come up where Pete and I both feel like having an early dinner. And we'll have dinner at, like, 3:30 or 4:00, and it's great, but I get up at, like, 05:30, 06:00 every day, which is also similar [Melanie laughs] to the pattern that you're doing.

So, getting up at 05:00 or 06:00 and rushing off you're out the door by 06:30. I don't quite leave the house by 06:30, but I am usually up 05:30, 06:00, and that gives me an hour of time before Luca's up. And so, I have an hour to myself in the morning to catch up on things and set my state tone for the day anyway. I also get up early, and so for me, having an early dinner is amazing. We actually did that today. We had an opportunity that came up and the way that it worked with our schedule, both Pete and I were hungry around 03:30. Actually, we started cooking at 03:00 and we ended up eating dinner at 04:00. And it's now 08:00 and I know that by the time I go to bed in a couple of hours, I'm going to be feeling great because I've had all this time to digest and I'm not going to be going to sleep on a full stomach, which for me is really difficult to do, [chuckles] especially right now being pregnant. But even when I'm not. So, I would say maybe opportunities will pop up if maybe it's on a weekend or on a holiday where you could try it out and see how you feel or test your blood glucose or ketones or whatever it is that you're testing and see if it works for you. But I wouldn't put undue pressure on yourself to do it when, as you said, it's not going to line up well with your work schedule.

Melanie Avalon: That was all really great advice. I can't even imagine going to bed on an empty stomach or having eaten that, like I have to sleep on a full stomach.

Vanessa Spina: But do you eat and then go right to bed? 

Melanie Avalon: Yup.

Vanessa Spina: What time do you eat? I feel like it's pretty late. 

Melanie Avalon: I don't even like saying how late it is because I'll tell you offline. 

Vanessa Spina: No, I figured it was going to be late because you said that you wind down and then you have dinner. And I know when you wind down. [laughter] Okay, so she's eating dinner really late. I just can't. I have to eat usually in an hour's time just with how things are with Luca. But I really don't sleep well if I go to bed with a full stomach. So, it's funny, we actually have some differences, but especially right now, my stomach is so small because I'm pregnant and I'm in the sixth month of pregnancy now, so everything is getting more and more compressed. So, I have the tiniest stomach right now, which has been challenging because I love to eat a lot of protein.

Melanie Avalon: Whoa.

Vanessa Spina: Yeah.

Melanie Avalon: Because the baby is growing and so it compresses the stomach.

Vanessa Spina: Yeah. I'll send you a picture of what it looks like, but all your organs, like, shift. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, [Vanessa laughs] I can't. I can't do that. [laughter] Oh, like my worst fear, I'm already, like, neurotic about my digestive system and organs. Oh, wow. Thank you for being a mom and doing that so I don't have to.

Vanessa Spina: Trust me, I had the same concerns and fears but it's totally fine. You don't even notice it. It's just that when you do eat, you get full a lot faster. I feel like I had like a gastric bypass or something sometimes. So, I get full really fast. And it's definitely been a challenge for me right now because I like to eat big protein meals and it's yeah, difficult because I'll get so full, uncomfortably full if I overeat. And I don't mean overeat, I just mean eat beyond what my tiny stomach [laughs] take right now. And it's really funny because a friend and I were talking about this on the weekend because they just got back from this all-inclusive resort that has breakfast and dinner buffet, and she's two months ahead of me and she was, like, saying how hard it is right now, because and this is, like, major first world problems, but if you're at a beautiful hotel with incredible buffet dinner and she's like, "Every night, I would enjoy the buffet." And then at the end I would be like, I can't move and [chuckles] I have to lie down. And I was like, I'm thinking about that every day because we're going back to Greece in a few weeks and they have this incredible breakfast and dinner buffet, and I'm like, "I don't know what I'm going to do." I'm really scared because I usually have at least two trips to the buffet for dinner and I usually get really full, and that's when I'm not pregnant. So, I don't know, I might have to have lunch or some kind of midday snack or something so that I'm less hungry at dinner. I might have to actually do, like, small meals for the last few months or something. Anyway, that's major first world problems. [laughs] But it's just funny how things change and I feel like definitely went on a tangent here.

Melanie Avalon: That's how we're also different. If I have a snack earlier, I am ravenous. I will eat more later.

Vanessa Spina: Oh, me too. But I feel like this may be my only option.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah. Literally.

Vanessa Spina: So that at dinner, I just don't feel like I have to have as much and I really don't want to do that. But if you have breakfast at 07:00, which is what we do when we're there, and then we have dinner, the dinner opens at like, 06:00 or 06:30, which is really late for me. So, by that time you're ready to eat, [laughs] you're ready to have dinner. And yeah, normally I have a couple of trips to the buffet and I feel really good about it. I'm eating mostly lean protein and delicious healthy foods. But, yeah, it's going to be a problem [laughs] when we're there. I don't know what I'm going to do because I don't like going to bed full and yeah, I'm going to have to figure something out.

Melanie Avalon: Can I ask you a controversial question related to content for this podcast that I wanted to talk to you about yesterday? 

Vanessa Spina: Sure. 

Melanie Avalon: And it's related to what you're talking about. How do you feel about intermittent fasting and keto while pregnant? 

Vanessa Spina: So, I don't recommend anything to anybody else, you know most of what I do and share about is just me sharing my own journey. I'm not saying anyone should do what I do. When I was pregnant with Luca, I still had two meals a day. I was doing lunch and dinner and I was doing keto, and I had an amazing pregnancy. I had a really easy time getting pregnant. I was doing ketogenic carnivore around the time that we decided to get pregnant. I thought it would take like, four to five months, but we got pregnant on the first attempt. And I'm not saying that to gloat or anything, because the second time around we had a little bit more challenges. And you would know about that if you maybe heard me talk about it on my podcast, but it's definitely a very sensitive area, and I know that with my own experience as well. But I'm just talking about my first pregnancy with Luca. We had a really easy time getting pregnant. I had the smoothest pregnancy. I didn't have 5 seconds of nausea in my entire pregnancy. I had no symptoms the entire time. I didn't even have swelling, which is like something that everybody gets. And the doctors and nurses were like, "Why are you not swollen?" Like, your legs and feet usually get swollen. My blood pressure was perfect. Stayed like 90/60 the entire time I was pregnant. No, obviously no issues with gestational diabetes or anything. It was a healthy, fit pregnancy. I worked out, I did resistance training, I felt amazing the whole time. Luca has turned out incredible. He's just an amazing boy. So that's what worked for me.

And a lot of people advise against doing any kind of intermittent fasting, and I agree with that because I do think that when you're pregnant, you should really be in tune to what your body wants and needs. I have been doing intermittent fasting and keto for so long, for so many years before getting pregnant, that my body was very well adapted to being fat fueled to this kind of approach, to all of it. If I had ever felt nauseous, which usually can sometimes be because you're hungry or there're different factors behind that, I would have just eaten, but I was just not hungry. Like, in the morning, I would get hungry for lunch and then I would have dinner and I just stuck to that and I stuck to keto the entire time. But that's not for anyone else to emulate or copy or anything. Like, you need to make your own decisions, do your own research, talk to your own care provider. So, I don't advocate these things to anyone else. I don't think people should try to follow a specific diet or anything like that or a specific meal timing pattern when they are pregnant. Just listen to your body and do what feels good and you know yourself best. It's up to you how you do your pregnancy and that's how you nourish yourself and your baby. But that's just what worked for me.

I've talked to lots of people who are sort of in this community and space who did similar things and who also had no issues, and I'm sure there are people who do it and do have issues this time with this pregnancy, when I got pregnant, I was doing breakfast and dinner, so I've just maintained that. But if I ever get hungry, like earlier in the day, like I did today, I got home, we'd had breakfast early in the morning, and then I got home with Luca around 02:30. And then Pete and I decided to have dinner and we started making dinner at 03:00. So, I just go with whatever I feel like if I'm hungry, I will eat, but I just find that two meals a day usually works for me. [chuckles] And now that my space is getting more limited, I am thinking about maybe I should be breaking it up into more meals just so that it's easier for me, because I don't like feeling uncomfortably full and I do like to eat a lot of protein. And pregnancy is a time when the one thing I will recommend to people is that you make sure to get more protein than usual, because it is one of the times that our protein requirements go up, especially in the second and third semester, we need more protein. Typically, you need 300 more calories per day in the second semester and 500 more calories per day in the third trimester. So those are recommendations that are out there and very well researched. 

But, yeah, I know that people have opinions on what people should and shouldn't do, and I just listen to my body and I do what has been working really well for me for years to have great metabolic health. So, I think the fact that I'm continuing to do what I was doing before is part of what makes it successful for me. Like, if I had been doing a standard American high-carb diet and then suddenly switched to doing intermittent fasting and doing keto, I would never recommend anyone do that unless they actually get gestational diabetes. In which case, my dear friend Lily Nichols has an incredible book called, well, she has Real Food for Pregnancy, and then she also wrote a book about low carb for gestational diabetes. And her book was so amazing that actually the Czech government here where we are, in Prague, used her book to change the policy on what they recommend to women who have gestational--

Melanie Avalon: Whoa.

Vanessa Spina: Yeah, gestational diabetes. So, they now recommend and advocate a low-carb diet for women who are either prone to gestational diabetes or have gestational diabetes and that's because of Lily. So, yeah, she's really, really amazing. So, I think if it can help with gestational diabetes, then it can probably help prevent it too. And it definitely is something that kept my blood sugars very healthy and in normal ranges the entire time. So. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's definitely controversial, but it's also a very personal decision what you do and how you do it. And for some people, pregnancy is a time to just eat whatever you want. For other people, myself included, it's a time to be extra careful on what you eat, because everything that you eat is basically building your baby. So, for me, it's like the time that I'm the most conscious about eating the most nutrient dense food possible. I don't limit myself in any way, but that's just like the lifestyle that I'm already used to. So, it works really well for me. 

Melanie Avalon: Thank you so much for sharing that. And it's one of those topics where I just feel viscerally you have to tiptoe because people have so many really strong opinions about it, so many people are saying you shouldn't even remotely do anything like keto. You shouldn't remotely do anything that even remotely resembles fasting. And I know we're not making recommendations, but I really appreciate your approach of doing intuitively what you've been doing and listening to your body, and you had a beautiful pregnancy and birth, and experience with Luca. And so now just feeling into yourself now and doing what you're doing. Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate it.

Vanessa Spina: Yeah, it's my pleasure. And it's something that I definitely-- I don’t even like when people reach out to me and ask me about doing keto during pregnancy, I'm just like, "You have to talk to your doctor and do your own research, because it's not something that I can even speak on because I'm not a physician, I'm not a care provider. I do share my experience, but I'm not sharing it to recommend it. I'm just sharing what I've experienced." And there're a lot of people in our space like, I know Dr. Ken Berry's wife, Neisha, she did keto her whole pregnancy. I mean, there're a number of people, but Robert, Keto Savage's wife, she's known as a Lady Savage. She also did pretty much keto carnivore during her pre-pregnancy and during pregnancy. I'm not sure how she did it exactly, when she was working, but there're a lot of people in the low-carb space who basically just continued on with the lifestyle that helped their body get pregnant in the first place, and so they felt good about continuing it. But I also think, like I said, "If it's something that you're already doing, your body's already adapted to it." But, yeah, you definitely have to figure it out for yourself. Talk to your doctor, figure out what's appropriate for you. If you don't like your doctor, find a low-carb doctor or a doctor who is more attuned to some of the topics that we talk about. But, yeah, I'd be really interested to know if there are any physicians out there who even recommend these kinds of protocols for people with gestational diabetes, because in Czech, it definitely affected the policy here. And I think it's wonderful that they recommend low carb for people who get gestational diabetes because it's a huge problem with a lot of complications for the baby and the mum. 

Melanie Avalon: That's amazing. Wow. Super random, but when you published your book, were there any translation versions that came out?

Vanessa Spina: No. I definitely thought about it, but never got to that point.

Melanie Avalon: I had one come out and it was not my doing, but it was Czech.

Vanessa Spina: No way. 

Melanie Avalon: Umm-hmm.

Vanessa Spina: That's amazing. So maybe your book is here.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah.

Vanessa Spina: I should look for it [Melanie laughs] because I was walking by this one bookstore a few months ago, and my friend Leanne Vogel's book was in the window. She wrote a book about keto. And I was like, "Oh, my gosh, it's Leanne." 

Melanie Avalon: And it was in Czech. 

Vanessa Spina: It probably was. I think if it was in the window there, but it may not have been. That's really cool. I wonder why I didn’t check. It's interesting.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I have no idea. 

Vanessa Spina: I mean, it definitely fits with the European lifestyle.

Melanie Avalon: I wonder if what year was that that happened with the government making those adjustments? 

Vanessa Spina: Oh, I'm not sure exactly which year.

Melanie Avalon: I just wonder if it was, like, in the vibe of the zeitgeist at the time.

Vanessa Spina: I would guess it was sometime in the last five to six years, but I don't know exactly. I'd have to ask Lily or look it up because I'm not sure.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, this was probably, like, in later 2018 that they asked for the- where they basically got the royalties for the Czech version.

Vanessa Spina: That's really cool. I wouldn't say that Czech or Prague are particularly advanced when it comes to those kinds of approaches. In the last few years, I have seen more low carb sort of paleo stuff. Usually, it's at farmers markets where people have their own stalls set up and there has been some keto stuff and some sugar free stuff. But it's pretty minimal because the traditional lifestyle here is still alive and well. And it's like a lot of beer, a lot of carbs, a lot of bread, fried things and it's also because it's like a very popular city for tourists, so there's also a lot of tourist food, a lot of deep-fried schnitzel and French fries and just all that kind of stuff. I know you tried some of that stuff when you were in Germany, so I think that kind of food culture here is pretty decadent. [laughs] There's a lot of kind of like Paris. There're a lot of bakeries with all these confectioneries and patisserie, like, I don't know, pastries and all that kind of stuff. But it's very interesting to me that Lily's work did influence the policy here. And I really commend them for it because it is something that is, I think, to an extent, preventable and treatable with diet and lifestyle and nutrition. So, I'm glad that they're-- I'm sure that's not always the case, but we know that I think, to an extent, it is. So, I'm really glad that they're offering people those kinds of options. 

Melanie Avalon: That would be so cool to know that your work had that influence. 

Vanessa Spina: I know. And I'm having her back on the podcast soon and yeah, I'm excited. I'll ask her when it happened, just out of curiosity, which year that was? 

Melanie Avalon: Amazing. Well, perfect, because I've been wanting to ask you about that. So, thank you for sharing your experience and your thoughts. 

Vanessa Spina: Yeah. And again--

Melanie Avalon: Not doctors. No recommendations.

Vanessa Spina: Don’t model me.

Melanie Avalon: I know.

Vanessa Spina: This is just me and my weird, my own lifestyle and choices, and it worked for me, but that doesn't mean it'll work for anyone else. I'm definitely not recommending it because it's definitely something very personal that you have to figure out on your own. But, yeah, I'm happy to share what I personally have done and what's worked for me. 

Melanie Avalon: So true. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. So, for listeners, if you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. Also, join us in my Facebook group called IF Biohackers, and you can also ask questions there. And I also sometimes post and ask for questions there as well as a recap up and coming guests, we need questions about CGMs. We're doing an episode on that. If you have questions about diet for autoimmune conditions, especially ketogenic diets and fasting for autoimmune conditions because we're bringing on Dr. Terry Wahls. And then anything about feeding your pet healthfully with Rebecca from Yummers. And then any fasting, biohacking, coffee, anything goes, questions for Dave Asprey. Definitely email those to us as well as your personal questions, and you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast. I am @melanieavalon and Vanessa is @ketogenicgirl right. And then lastly, the show notes will have links to everything that we talked about and a full transcript. That will be @ifpodcast.com/episode336. All right, well, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything from you, Vanessa, before we go? 

Vanessa Spina: I had so much fun on the episode and can't wait to record the next one with you.

Melanie Avalon: Me too. Talk to you soon. 

Vanessa Spina: Talk to you soon. Bye 

Melanie Avalon: Bye. 

Thank you so much for listening to The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription]


Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts - it helps more than you know!