Welcome to Episode 337 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
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SHOW NOTES
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rebecca's back story
health challenges
getting into IF
snacking all day
getting the protein in and muscle building
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #165 - Dr. Karen Becker
Creating yummers
pet food nutrition
using real food
the yummers toppers
sourcing and quality
distribution
being a woman in business
work-life balance
working culture
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 337 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat not what you eat, with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of What When Wine, and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. I'm here with my cohost, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of Keto Essentials, and creator of the Tone breath ketone analyzer and Tone LUX red light therapy panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine if it's that time and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 337 of the Intermittent Fasting podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I am here with a very special guest today. I have been looking forward to this for so, so long. Listeners, okay, so the backstory on today's episode probably it was a while ago, over maybe a year and a half ago, I'm not even sure at this point. A fabulous listener of the show, Rebecca Rudisch, reached out to me via email. Now, I'm just trying to remember the origin story of all of this. I think she reached out about the topic of today's conversation, which is her incredible company, Yummers, which they make gourmet, pet food toppers as well as a new line of dog food. She reached out about just how she was a listener of the show and how she had this company and how she was all into the health of our pets.
I know we talk a lot about health of humans on this show, but very rarely do we dive into what we're actually feeding our pets. Rebecca and I just hit it off right away. She felt like an instant friend that I had known for years. I really do feel like that. And on top of that, she's pretty much one of the most inspiring people I think I've ever met. She is a role model for being a strong, entrepreneur woman who has done so many things. Her resume is just absolutely astounding. So, I knew we had to have her on the show for so many things to talk about. A, talk about how she integrates fasting into her life, how she does biohacking, health, diet, and fitness while being this awesome career-oriented woman, doing her companies, being a female COO.
Also, to talk about Yummers and the tragic situation of feeding our pets conventional pet food today and how Yummers is working to change that. Oh, and by the way, if listeners are fans of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Rebecca actually co-founded that company with Antoni Porowski and JVN from that show, so you guys may be familiar with them. I'm just so excited about this. I have so many things to talk about. Rebecca, thank you so much for being here.
Rebecca Rudisch: Oh, my gosh, I'm so honored. You were way too kind in that introduction. I have been waiting for this for a long time too and it's really fun to be here. You're right, when you come to the origin story, you're totally right. You happen to be talking about your mom's cats on one of the IF podcast episodes. I immediately, just for whatever reason, knew I had to reach out to you. I will tell you I've never done that with anybody before. So, I think we were destined to be friends, and I'm really really thrilled to be here today.
Melanie Avalon: I still remember reading your first email and I was so intrigued. I was like, “Who is this woman?” [chuckles] We just immediately became friends. You just understand all the things. I'm not kidding, Rebecca, I literally, when I am talking about you to anybody, I use you as the example. I'm like, “She is the most inspiring woman, I think, that I know personally,” and I am not-- I am not making that up. That is how I introduce you to people. [laughs] So, speaking of, there are so many things I want to talk to you about, but to introduce you to our audience, your personal story, because I know you went through your own health issues and your own things, and there're so many different ways I could phrase this. Have you always wanted to be an entrepreneur, work with different companies that you've worked with? How did your health journey play into that and ultimately what led you to founding Yummers?
Rebecca Rudisch: Yeah, I mean, it's a wild story and I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was younger. And just in terms of my background, I grew up in the Midwest to a very blue-collar family of very hardworking people, and I had no idea what it meant to be an entrepreneur. I worked a lot during high school and college, and I put myself through college and worked in a retail store, and I never dreamed that I would have the kind of life that I have now, and I didn't even know what that meant. But you're right, I did find my way through a lot of different challenges. So, like I said, I grew up in the Midwest, I went to college, I was really lucky and out of undergrad, I got a fabulous job in management consulting, and I happened to work in a retail store when I was putting myself through school, as I said.
I got scooped up into the retail practice with what was then Andersen Consulting, now Accenture, and it really set my career up. I loved it. I loved what I did and had a chance to work on a lot of really interesting things and all of that made me realize that I wanted to run a business. In the retail industry what that means is you go into a merchandising career. I started my career in merchandising with Target, was recruited to go work for Target and my health and wellness and really my CPG and food background really started there. At Target, I ran a bunch of businesses including the snacks and beverages business. I ran electronics and entertainment and my last job there I ran everything that Target calls healthcare which includes over-the-counter products and vitamins and supplements but also pharmacy, optical and clinics. I definitely had a strong interest in health and wellness much before that. But that really set me up to be the person at Target who was a spokesperson for everything health and wellness which was really an honor.
At the same time during my time at Target I was also going through a little bit of a health journey. I don't think I'll ever really know exactly what happened but I just call it my meltdown where I really started to have a lot of struggles with fatigue and a lot of actually numbness and tingling and my limbs and just very strange symptoms. At the end of it all, I was in intense pain. I had horrible back pain to the point of really not even being able to walk around the block and I was like 29 years old. It was awful. I was really fortunate that I started seeking out alternative care and it wasn't for lack of trying the traditional western medicine route, but I think a lot of people on this podcast can probably empathize that sometimes you don't get the answers that you really need through that process.
So, I found a chiropractor and an acupuncturist and I changed my diet and I eliminated gluten and dairy and a whole bunch of other things and I was really lucky that all of that really helped and made a dent. At some point, I got a diagnosis for Lyme disease. I'm not sure if I had it or not, it's really hard to tell, probably at some point I did. But I think all of that to say for the past almost 20 years I've really been able to manage a lot of things with just living better. I'm sure that's why at some point I found the IF Podcast because I'm always looking for ways to make myself healthier and to really boost all of the things in my life that are wellness related. But anyway, it was really interesting that when I was going through all of that I was also the health and wellness person at Target, which it felt in some ways very odd.
The other thing that I really learned in my time in merchandising because I went on from Target and believe it or not, from there the health and wellness person went and ran all of merchandising for 7-Eleven, which was also enlightening. Eventually, I would make my way to Petco, which is why I'm now in the pet industry. But one thing I really learned in my time merchandising at Target and 7-Eleven, because I had responsibility for a lot of food and beverage and healthcare products, is that the standards for processed food manufacturing and for all of the food development really are, I think, somewhat troubling. I know you talk about this a lot on both of your podcasts, but the industry that is creating packaged food today and it's creating packaged products, there's a lot there that is really troubling when you're thinking about the health and wellness of people and particularly people like me, who really need to have clean, real food in order to be healthy.
So, I could go on for hours. But a lot of that has really led me to where I am today. And in terms of getting to the point of today, all of that led me to be the Chief Merchandising Officer at one point at Petco, which I have always been in love with pets, but it was the best job ever because I got to live and breathe and eat and sleep nothing but pets all day long and it was awesome. I think has really solidified the fact that pets are one of the things I'm most passionate about personally and in business.
Melanie Avalon: I love all of this so much. See listeners, now you can see why she's so inspiring. Okay, so many things. I'm curious, when you were having your health challenges and hearing how old you were when you were at Target, that is really putting things in perspective for me, which has done so much. So, when you were having your health challenges, did you start feeling better overnight? Was it a slow journey? Was there a paradigm shift in your head that helped you feel better? Because now you and I always talk offline about how I'm so in awe of your travel skills and you're always killing it and traveling all over the world and doing all these things, which sounds very energetically draining to me. So, did you just wake up one day and feel better or was it a really slow process or what did that look like?
Rebecca Rudisch: It was so scary. It was truly, truly frightening. When you're 29 years old and you can't walk around the block, even grocery shopping was so challenging, except at least I could push a cart. And to me, at this point, it just seems surreal that that was my life. But I was terrified. At one point, I think the last doctor I went and I had an MRI on my back, and they couldn't really find anything. A doctor who was doing the best that he could, diagnosed me with something called stiff-person syndrome. I have no idea what this is to this day, but he said that the treatment for it would be to be put on massive amounts of muscle relaxers for the rest of my life, which essentially would have-- I wouldn't have even been able to go to work. It would have been awful and I think, Melanie, you know me at this point, and anybody who knows me, the idea of me not being able to work is terrifying because it's what I get so much passion out of and what I really love to do.
I was absolutely terrified. To this day, I don't even remember exactly how I found this person, but I found a chiropractic neurologist, and I was like, in the darkest of the darkest days. I found a chiropractic neurologist who did a full intake and he said, “I do things really differently.” He used some very different techniques that not only adjusted me physically, but also started to rewire my nervous system. By no means was it overnight, but within a couple of weeks, I was not in complete pain, and within a couple of months, I was walking a little bit better and really starting to see some improvement. It has been a journey though. I could never say that it was overnight. I could never say that I don't have any of the same symptoms that last today. But like I said, 20 years later, literally 20 years later, I get better every day.
Thank you for your callout on my travel skills. I don't know that I'm perfect by any means, but I think I feel incredibly lucky every day that I have never had to completely alter my life or hold myself back from anything because of it. I feel incredibly grateful for that and it's because of a lot of work. I would say that I was biohacking before biohacking was a thing or before I knew it was a thing, because it really is about constant adjustments and knowing my body and knowing what I need at any given time. Sometimes, I will just, I won't be able to go out when I'm out traveling or I will just stay home and take a rest because that's what I know my body needs. But for the most part, I'm all in on life and I do everything. So, I feel incredibly incredibly lucky.
Melanie Avalon: We have so many conversations about the travel, about the rest, the boundaries, and also, you're also a big foodie, so I'm always having you send me pictures of your meals and these crazy places that you go. It's so haunting to hear you say that about the grocery store thing. I had immediate flashbacks. I obviously did not have stiff-person syndrome, that's crazy. I've never heard of that before.
Rebecca Rudisch: I don't even know if it's a thing, to be honest with you, [laughs] but it was terrifying.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it sounds like something they just give a label when they can't explain something too. I remember when I was severely anemic and wasn't aware, and that's when I was at my most fatigued, and I would drive to the grocery store and just sit in the car for 15 to 20 minutes trying to get the energy to walk inside the grocery store. It was so scary. I was like, “Am I dying?” So, it's really nice to know that-- not that we all go through really dark things, but it's really nice to be on the flipside. It just provides so much hope, I think, to me and to other people. So, thank you for sharing that. One last question about all of that. I'm curious, when you were in that state, was your work draining to you? Because you just mentioned how, it would be awful if your work was taken away from you, which is how I feel about everything that I do. So, was it draining for you or was it actually energizing for you or were you hiding behind it? What was that relationship like?
Rebecca Rudisch: It's such a good question. I would say it was what kept me going. It was the one place where I felt like I was still thriving. Honestly, I was thriving probably during this timeframe that I was going through everything. I probably got promoted like six or seven times. I kept having more opportunities to grow and advance in my career and do new things. And like I said, it was the one place where I felt whole and I felt like I was me. I felt what I put in was coming back out with a lot of reward and gosh, Melanie, I don't know what I would have done without it. I think we all read about or know people or just have people in our lives who have debilitating illnesses of some sort which keeps them from working or makes them have to go on disability or something like that. To me, that would have been the most devastating thing. I don't even know how I would have handled it, because I think the outlet that work became was just so important for me and it gave me a why, to continue to kind of push on.
Melanie Avalon: That's the exact same way I felt during everything, [chuckles] because you mentioned how you were trying to find answers and started looking into all these health modalities and diet and fitness. When did you start experimenting with intermittent fasting?
Rebecca Rudisch: Like so many things, I was probably experimenting with intermittent fasting without knowing it was intermittent fasting. I really just realized that and this is a little bit of a shift when I finally left the big corporate retail world that I had been in and started more of an entrepreneurial path. I really found that when I was working in an office all day, it's just like the food is always there. People are always like there's always breakfast, and then there's a lunch, and then there're snacks, and then there's dinner. And particularly when you're the snack and beverage buyer, you are constantly being barraged with samples of everything. Even when I ran healthcare, there were always power bars or not power bars, but like protein bars and everything everywhere. So, I was always in that mode of like, snack, snack, snack, with meals and dinners out and whatever.
I'll be honest, I just never felt that good. When I stopped working in an office all the time, I found that I was just really happy eating twice a day. I usually work out in the morning and it's kind of my thing. So, I like to work out on an empty stomach. So, I would just find that I wouldn't really need to have anything to eat until like 11 or 12 in the afternoon or whatever. Then, I actually had a friend visit me who talked about how she was doing intermittent fasting. I said, “Oh, what is that? And she goes, “Oh, I just don't eat breakfast anymore.” [laughs] I said, “Oh, well, I think I do that too,” but I didn't really know that that's what it was. She started talking about all of the health benefits of it, which really got me intrigued. I think that's when I officially would have called myself an intermittent faster.
Since then, I changed it up a little bit. I think my body's changed a little bit. I have a really intense goal right now of putting on muscle. I just turned 49, I'm on the verge of 50, and the whole muscle loss as you get a little bit older, it's a real real thing. So, now it's all about muscle for me. I find that what I used to do with intermittent fasting of skipping breakfast and doing probably like 16 hours without eating. I probably more often I'm doing like 12 or 13 instead, just because I like to eat like two really big protein meals, but I'm still doing two meals a day and I feel so much better. It's better for my body. I think after all the years of snacking constantly, my body's just relieved to not have to be doing that anymore. So, it's been very natural and I'm glad I have a name for it now. I just thought I was skipping breakfast. [laughs]
Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. Okay, I just had an epiphany I don't think I've ever had about intermittent fasting. This is a new thought for me. It just occurred to me because people ask all the time about being in social situations or work situations and if people comment on why they're not eating because they're fasting or people feeling like they're fasting and they feel awkward about it or they don't want to decline the food because of the social implications. It just occurred to me that if you're doing it, “by accident” like you were because you just weren't eating because you weren't hungry. Basically, you could be in the exact same situation, but because you haven't put a label on it in your head as I'm fasting, I think you can easily decline things because it's just you're declining because you're not hungry. Compared to if you have the label in your head that you're doing it because you're fasting, even though you could be in the exact same situation or exact same state. Either way, it's like when people add this label in their head, then all of a sudden, they bring in all of this baggage of, “Oh, I have to explain it or I'm not being normal.” Or compared to, if you're just not hungry, you just say you're not hungry. I just never thought about that before.
Rebecca Rudisch: I agree. And it's so funny that you say that, because my mom, when I was growing up, I don't think I've ever seen, well, now I have, but I don't think when I was a kid, I ever saw my mom eat breakfast. She had coffee every day and she was like, “Coffee is my breakfast. That's all I want.” She had the metabolism of a hummingbird, and she just always had energy, and nobody ever bugged her about it. It was never a thing. But she was an intermittent faster too. She had black coffee every day for breakfast and now there's this whole thing around it. But it was just normal for her.
Melanie Avalon: It's so interesting. Yeah. I never put that together in my head. Also, really random, do you know the mind-blowing fact about the hummingbird?
Rebecca Rudisch: I don't think I do.
Melanie Avalon: Did you know-- I learned this when I interviewed Dr. Rick Johnson, who I just simply adore? He talks about the hummingbird in his book Nature Wants Us to Be Fat. So, the hummingbird, it becomes diabetic every night. At some point in its circadian rhythm, it drinks all this nectar and it literally becomes diabetic. Like, if you looked at its blood profile, does so much activity with its metabolism that it undoes all that damage, and then it rinses and repeats. Isn't that crazy? Because you mentioned, the metabolism of a hummingbird. [laughs] But in any case, okay, so when you did put a label on intermittent fasting in your head, when you realized that's what you're doing, did you experience issues with work and social situations of feeling like you wanted to decline the eating situations but feeling awkward about it socially?
Rebecca Rudisch: I don't think so. It’s always been my own person as it relates to that, and I don't really think about it that way. I guess now, as an entrepreneur, for the most part we all work remotely. So, I'm not in an office every day, which definitely makes a big difference because you're not constantly in that kind of situation. My team knows sometimes I have breakfast, sometimes I have lunch, I always have dinner. I think we're all pretty accepting of where we're at from a health standpoint and that's a great place to be, but I do know it can be really challenging. I think back to all of my years in an office setting where I was eating three meals plus snacks a day. I think there probably can be a little bit more of a stigma of always needing to be in some kind of feeding situation.
But I do think there's starting to be a little bit more awareness around the fact that that isn't as healthy as what people thought it was for a long time again. Like I'll come back to I ran the snack department. We were all about people thinking they needed to eat all the time. We were probably responsible [laughs] for a lot of it. Certainly, all the research from the big CPG companies is there to propagate people's belief that they're going to better off if they just continue to graze all day long. To me, even though I was in that business and in that mode, it never felt good. I certainly did it, but I never felt great as I did it, if that makes sense.
Melanie Avalon: Yes, it does, completely. And on the protein front, it's awesome to hear about your focus on muscle and protein. We talk about that so much on this show. A question, we get from listeners all the time is they can't grasp how to fit in extra protein into a shortened eating window. I know you said that you elongated your eating window a bit to accommodate the protein. So, how do you fit in all the protein?
Rebecca Rudisch: So, what I found that is working really really well is I eat two big meals a day. And that's why I stretch them out so much, because I'm just not hungry in the middle. But two big meals a day and a really good chunk of protein in both. I've found that my body just responds better to animal protein than it does to plant protein. But I used to do a lot of plant protein too, but I'll just really eat like 40, 50 g a meal and it's working for me. I'm on all the bio-hacks as well and really intense exercise routine that's really helping as well. But I just think for me it's just really been about two really good solid meals instead of multiple times a day. Some people do well with three or more, but for me it's just great to have two really good sizable meals.
Melanie Avalon: I love it. I love it. And for listeners, I think, okay, when you and I first started talking about EMSculpt, you had already done it or did you start doing it after I was doing it?
Rebecca Rudisch: I think we started doing it right around the same time I do EMSculpt and I think that's really helped in some cases. Also, I'm a huge huge believer of the CAROL Bike, so just like small bursts of cardio training. So, you and I also share that. The other thing that it's been a game changer for me is the ARX, which is robotic resistance training. So, basically, you're stronger on your eccentric motion than on your concentric motion, so it pushes back on you on the eccentric so that you get twice as much muscle building. So, I am all into anything that can make all of this not easier, [chuckles] but at least more effective.
Melanie Avalon: No, I'm all about it. Maximum gain, minimum pain, minimum time invested. Sounds like the ARX is like the resistant muscle building equivalent of CAROL and that CAROL is using AI resistance to give you the perfect REHIT workout.
Rebecca Rudisch: Exactly, right? Yes, exactly.
Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Okay, so historically, you were working in these retail companies. What made you make the decision to leave that career path and go true entrepreneur spirit, which I think can be really scary for a lot of people and founding an entire company, what was that experience like?
Rebecca Rudisch: So, I can't say that I jumped all in and just was able to do it overnight by any stretch. After I left Petco, like I said, I had been in charge of all of merchandising there. I thought about doing something entrepreneurial and I think I've always wanted to really do something that has an opportunity to change people's lives and make them better. When I was in snacks and beverages or health and wellness at Target, just so often, I had this amazing opportunity to sit across the table from some of the coolest brands and the brands that have made the biggest difference on people's lives in the past couple of decades. Whether it was method cleaning or OLLY Vitamins or Cliff Bar or other brands that were just there to make people's lives just a little bit better, to use ingredients that were cleaner, to use less sugar, less chemicals for your home or any of those things.
It was so inspirational to me to sit across from those founders when they were coming into Target and hear them tell their story, hear them talk about their why and their purpose. The thing that I loved more than anything else about the jobs that I had was being able to help those small companies who were making the world better succeed. So many times, I thought to myself, maybe someday I'll be able to be in that same position, and maybe someday the idea will come to me and I'll be able to make that leap. Then I would chicken out and I would just keep going on my path as a retail executive. I'm so fortunate that I did because finally I had a moment where because of everything that I had done, I had somebody knock on my door and this was a person who really helped me make the connection for Yummers.
While it was an opportunity to be a founder and to start a new company, it was really because somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, “Your experience is exactly what we need to do something in pet, will you come and join us?” So, I would say, I admire people who can just do it on their own. I am the person who needs to have other people around me. I am inspired by ideation and brainstorming with other people. I like to collaborate. I think best where I have an opportunity to have a sounding board or a partner. And the way that this all worked was perfect. But I've always had a fire in my belly to do something more entrepreneurial, and I feel incredibly grateful that I'm finally here.
Melanie Avalon: So, somebody came to you with the idea for Yummers specifically or was just like the idea of something like that?
Rebecca Rudisch: Yeah. So, Yummers actually came out of an incubator called Caravan, which is basically, we are a part of/venture of Creative Artists Talent Agency, which is why I had a chance to meet Jonathan and Antoni. So, Caravan had identified pet as an area that they wanted to go into. They didn't know exactly what they wanted to do in pet. They didn't really know much about pet, but the pet industry is amazing for so many reasons and they thought so too. So, when they said, “We really want to do something in the pet business do you have any ideas?” I said, “Well, yes, I do.” [chuckles] So, that's exactly where Yummers was born, was through some of those ideas and the opportunity to join forces with JVN and Antoni as well.
Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Okay. So many questions about this. And for listeners, they probably caught this, but Creative Artists Agency is CAA, which we hear that terminology more often, which is the biggest, it's at the top three for the biggest agencies in the entertainment sphere. So, very cool. Okay, so when you sat down, not really, but sat down to brainstorm and create what would ultimately become Yummers, what were your thoughts and what are your thoughts on the conventional pet food industry the way it is now, and what were you looking to achieve with Yummers?
Rebecca Rudisch: What happened with Yummers or where Yummers came from was really that desire to bring better to pets. There were a couple of areas that I was really fascinated by as I really started digging in and determining what exactly our product offering would be. There're really two things, first, the conventional pet food industry in terms of the quality of the product, basically it's a corollary to the human snack food business in so many different ways. Even, when I've toured some of the facilities and seen the production, you basically take ingredients which are certain ingredients, some of them are great, some of them aren't so great, and put them into an extruder. And out comes basically pellets of food that have been stripped of a lot of nutrition and almost all of the flavor and then their [unintelligible [00:33:34] are put back on top of it. Vitamins and minerals are kind of readded to the food so that it has complete and balanced nutrition and reminds me a lot of cereal.
Back in the food days, extruders are how you make Cheerios. So, it's the exact same thing. You take ingredients, you put them through a huge heat process and out comes something that really is not as nutritious. And with pet food, the vast majority of people feed kibble as a pet food. And the nutrition as we just talked about is not all that great. I can say that with my own opinion. But also, it doesn't make the pet that happy, it doesn't make the human that happy. And so much of life and a relationship with your friends is really around food and creating great moments over a great meal. And yet so many people see their pet, their dog or their cat as their best friend and they're just pouring this brown kibble into a bowl every day and putting it on the ground and saying "chow down buddy."
We really started to see that people weren't satisfied feeding that way anymore. So, the initial line of products that we launched with Yummers was this incredibly nutritious and we can talk about the way that they were prepared in a minute, but this incredibly nutritious and absolutely delicious range of products that were meant to be mix ins and toppers for either dog food or cat food. And some of them are just tasty, gourmet proteins and mixtures that just make the food taste better and give the human being the opportunity to make the meal a little bit more interesting. And then the other part of our assortment is really products that are, we call them supplements or functional. So, they are oriented around conditions that might be common for pets like hip and joint issues, or skin and coat issues, or digestive issues. We have supplements that you just put a little bit on top of the food and you can provide therapeutic doses of ingredients that help with those conditions every day during mealtime.
So, that's really where we started. And the core of our belief was around the way that the product was prepared. We call our products perfectly prepared because we prepare every one of our ingredients for the optimal bioavailability or nutrient availability for the body as well as they have to be incredibly tasty. Our name is Yummers, so they better be good. So, all of our products test off the charts for both nutrition as well as just being really tasty for the pet.
Melanie Avalon: This is so amazing. For listeners, I highly recommend checking out. I did an interview with Dr. Karen Becker for her book The Forever Dog. Honestly, reading that book was one of the most eye-opening things I've ever read. I've read a lot of books. I don't even have a dog. I learned so much in that book. Point being though, so much of what you said right now, I was just again getting flashbacks because she talks about how house pets, our cats and our dogs are really the only animal species on the planet that is eating processed food, a lot of them eating processed food every single meal for their entire lives. I mean, I guess some humans might as well. It's just shocking. It's not surprising to me at all that so many health conditions, mental health conditions, different diseases that we see in humans, we now see in our pets and I really believe it's really going back to the food situation.
Rebecca Rudisch: I think the food makes such a huge difference. I'll talk about Yummers food and what we've done, but I love the human grade fresh and frozen food that's available now and some of the companies out there that have done such a good job of bringing that product and making it available to pet parents. But what I also know is that today over 50% of pet parents, actually closer to 80% of pet parents are feeding processed kibble two or three times a day as the sole source of nutrition. And Melanie, just as you said, and part of that is because it's convenient, part of it is because it's more affordable. It's what they're used to. They don't want know take the fresh stuff out of the freezer and thaw it and have it in the refrigerator. I think that's the reality. So, with Yummers, we've really of struck the middle ground of having a product that is incredibly nutritious and prepared in the way that the ingredients can best absorbed for the pet.
At the same time, it is dry and it can be stored in the cupboard and it does have a little bit longer shelf life because of the fact that it's just freeze dried, it's just air dried and just like any other freeze-dried food that you eat as a human, it does last longer. So, it provides the same convenience, but it is so much better for the pet than feeding the standard processed kibble.
Melanie Avalon: Because I remember at one point, I was thinking of possibly working on a pet food line and I was diving deep into the rabbit hole because there are so many potential options that you can go as far as what type of pet food to make. It was so much of what you just said that it can be really intimidating for people, not cost-effective time wise, difficult to go on a completely Whole Foods raw diet or something like that with their pet. There needs to be something that's really accessible to people. I think what you're doing is so incredible for that. I can speak to the pets loving it. My sister has a cat, Jackie. My mom has her dog, Mia. And Rebecca was so kind and sent us over so many things and I gave it to them. I kept getting texts over and over about how obsessed they were with the food. And my sister kept asking for more saying how much Jackie was obsessed with it. And then yesterday, I sent Rebecca this. I texted this to her. But our assistant Sharon on the show sent me a video of her dog Tilly, of her putting Yummers into her dog Tilly's food and Tilly is, she's a bulldog and she's freaking out and just so excited about it leading up to eating it. I asked Sharon, I was like, “Does she always act that way around food?” She's like, “No, she's never done this before until Yummers.” So, they love it. They love it.
Rebecca Rudisch: You made my day when you sent that video. It always makes my day. But Melanie, I will tell you, she is not alone. My dog loves his food. He's really never turned down a good bowl of food, but he loves his Yummers. It seems to be the case for everybody. I just find it absolutely fascinating because I know how this stuff is made. I have seen every aspect of the production and it's just chicken that's freeze dried or beef that's freeze dried. It's just sweet potatoes that are air dried. It's just an ancient grain that is cooked for bioavailability. It's just real food. And to see my dog, to see Tilly, to see every other dog that I see go so crazy over it, actually tells me something about what I have been feeding him his whole life so far. Because this is just real food, it's just awesome real food and for him to get this excited about it, I think it's because instinctively, they know it's good for them, and they know that it's what their body needs. So, I love seeing it. I feel good every day. We get testimonials every once in a while, that just bring tears to my eyes about pets who might have cancer or who really struggle with their appetite. You give them some Yummers and they polish off the bowl, and that makes me really happy because I really do believe that we're solving for something that's really really powerful.
Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it's so true. I hadn't thought about it in that aspect, but just it's such simple ingredients and they're just loving it so much, which does tell a lot about probably the current nutritional state of the conventional processed food. How did you decide which ingredients to include?
Rebecca Rudisch: A lot of testing. Again, I come back to the fact that our goal is to be the most nutritious and also the most tasty. So, we compromised on nothing. We knew that we wanted a variety of proteins because I think probably some of the listeners will empathize different pets have different allergies or sensitivities to different proteins. So, we wanted to have a good variety of proteins for customers to choose from. We also wanted to make sure that the ingredients that we chose were the best ingredients and the most nutritious. So, for example, I said, we have real chunks of chicken breast in our food because the protein is very bioavailable for pets or with other formulas, we have real salmon or real beef liver. Again, because of the nutrient bioavailability for the pet.
We chose ancient grains because there's more fiber than traditional, like brown rice or rice that would be used in a pet food or grain-free pet foods, which were, I think, trendy for a while. But people have started to realize that having some grains that are made bioavailable is a really good thing for a lot of pets. We chose sweet potatoes and a few other things just because pets really love them and they're incredibly nutritious. I'll tell a funny story. At one point, we did some experimentation of a formula with green beans, which would have been a good addition and certainly provided a little bit of variety. But we learned that a lot of pets don't like green beans very much because they would eat every nugget of the food and they would leave the green beans behind.
So, basically my mantra became only empty bowls were acceptable. So, nothing that is in the food has any reject factor with the pets. And that has been a little bit of our mantra. So, the food is amazing. If your listeners would indulge me and go take a look at yummerspets.com. You can see it looks different. It does not look like the kibble that they're used to feeding. It looks different because it is. You can really see each of the ingredients and how they all come together in the bowl. So, it's really great product. I really hope all of your listeners who have pets will try it. We're offering them the opportunity to do that for free, so we're really excited for that as well.
Melanie Avalon: So, if listeners go to yummerspets.com/ifpodcast you can actually try the new dog food line, a trial version of it, completely for free. Is it three flavors that you have?
Rebecca Rudisch: Three flavors, yes.
Melanie Avalon: So, you get to pick your favorite, get that completely free. You'll only pay shipping, which is so so awesome. Then also sitewide you can get 20% off with the coupon code IFPODCAST20, so IFPODCAST20, so thank you so much, Rebecca, for that, really really appreciate that.
Rebecca Rudisch: Thank you. I really hope we would love if every pet in America were to be able to have Yummers in their bowl. So, we want to do anything we can to make that happen.
Melanie Avalon: I love it. And listeners, feel free to send us videos or feedback about how much your pets love it because it's so wonderful to see. Comment on the grains, because I looked up the grains that you use and is it sorghum, millet, and brown rice?
Rebecca Rudisch: Exactly right.
Melanie Avalon: Those are all gluten-free grains.
Rebecca Rudisch: All gluten free, they are gluten free. They're all source of the highest quality and they're all very intentional in terms of the nutrient profile. So, yes.
Melanie Avalon: Do you find-- Was it difference formulating the dog food versus the pet food and the toppers or was it a pretty similar process?
Rebecca Rudisch: No, it's totally different. I always say and this probably is analogy that only works for a nerd like me. But developing the toppers was like developing snacks where there weren't a lot of rules and you could experiment with a lot of different things with the exception of the supplement toppers, because those we wanted to make sure to have a real efficacious dose. But like one of our toppers, for example, is just shredded cheese and it's one of our top sellers because people really love how human it is and you can just sprinkle a little bit on the food and that was just a creative idea that we had. We have some really great stuff coming. So, I really encourage people to take a look at what we have coming. At the end of the year, we have another really great supplement topper coming and we're going to keep developing more.
But a lot of that is just fun stuff that we can do and there doesn't need to be as much rigor around the complete and balanced nutrition. When you develop a dog or a cat food, the standards in terms of being complete and balanced are very rigorous. I've always said, I think in many ways developing pet food is harder than developing a lot of human food because there is a very clear standard in terms of the nutrition and the balance of macros as well as the balance of vitamins and minerals and other things. The pet industry in some ways is way behind people and in some ways there's even more standards. So, we were very careful in the development of the food to make sure that it is complete and balanced, that it is incredibly healthy for pets. It fits all breeds and life stages and doing that, it's a lot of work to get the formulations right.
Melanie Avalon: I'm just thinking about how speaking of the simple ingredients, I remember when you first sent me the toppers because it was right before I was going to Austin for an event. I was looking at the ingredients and I was like, “Oh. I was like, I could eat this. I was like, “Maybe I should pack [laughs] this in my suitcase and then I'll have something to eat” because it was literally just like chicken. I remember I texted you about that. You're like, “I can't officially recommend that.” [laughs]
Rebecca Rudisch: There's nothing that would tell you that you couldn't, but I'm not going to recommend it and I wouldn't recommend it to any of your listeners. I'm sure he wouldn't mind that I share, but I have to constantly tell Antoni that he really shouldn't be putting the cheese on a salad, even though he's talked often about how he loves to put the cheese on the salad. I cannot endorse that behavior. I'm sure he wouldn't mind that I shared that because that is his favorite item.
Melanie Avalon: That’s so funny that's. Especially in the beginning when they were posting on Instagram and a lot, did you have to have some talks about what you could and could not post with that.
Rebecca Rudisch: Particularly, as it relates to them eating the food? Yes. Not that it wouldn't be a good thing, but no, we cannot endorse that. That is not. Again, in fact, what I can also say is that our supplier for one of the products actually ate only his food for a month and actually has some video recordings of it. And again, we can't endorse that. But it's really good food. The quality is impeccable. But no, I wouldn't suggest that any of your listeners start eating it for lunch.
Melanie Avalon: It's so funny. What are some of the practices like with the proteins as far as the sourcing and the raising practices of those animals?
Rebecca Rudisch: So, we just have really high standards and it's just real human food. So, the chicken is just chicken breast, beef liver is just beef liver. We source from very high-quality sources and all in the USA, with the exception of we have lamb that's from New Zealand. So, we go for the best of the best in terms of sourcing location. We believe that it's just important that the ingredients are the best ingredients that you can put into the food because I think that's why it's so delicious and certainly why the nutritional value is much higher than what you would find in conventional food.
Melanie Avalon: I love it, love it. I'm curious what has been the response because you do have the line in Petco. What has it been like selling it in Petco versus direct to consumer online?
Rebecca Rudisch: It's really interesting. We sell it at Petco. We also sell for your California listeners. We sell at an awesome retailer called Pet Food Express. And then we do sell on direct to consumer. I think we just attract different customers in every location and we see it with the products that we sell. So, at Petco, we have a much higher percentage of our sales coming from cat customers than we do in our direct to consumer, I think, we just have a lot more dog customers coming direct to consumer. Our direct-to-consumer customers tend to like to buy more of the supplements and similarly with Pet Food Express, we just see a lot more of trading into the supplement SKUs. We also see that a lot of people on our own website like to buy multiples. So, they'll like maybe a beef liver and a digestive and a skin and coat or something like that. We've created some bundles around some of those more common combinations as well. But I just think we're attracting different customers with all of the different points of distribution, which is great, because it just means that we're able to reach more customers and they can use Yummers for either along with food that they've already been feeding or now they can try our food.
Melanie Avalon: You said there are a lot of great things coming in the pipeline, so how do you feel-- Because I know for me, once I created my first supplement line with AvalonX and I created the Serrapeptase, it was just like it lit this fire in me. I was like, “Now I just want to create all the things.” So, what has been your experience now with having this power and agency to create products? Do you want to make a million more different things with Yummers or how do you feel about all of it?
Rebecca Rudisch: Absolutely, yes, I know exactly what you mean that fire in your belly that just lights you up and you just get so many ideas and you're inspired from so many different things. I've always been that way. I have been a product junkie for my entire life. I'm always looking for white space in different categories. I think part of it because I've run so many businesses in my career. My mind is always going on like, what's next? What's better? What doesn't exist yet? What are trends in the marketplace whether it's ingredients or whatever? So, yes, I'm completely inspired to create a lot more Yummers products. My team's mission is truly, as I said earlier, but our mission is to have Yummers in every bowl.
That doesn't mean that every single person who tries Yummers has to change to our food. We have a great food. I'm thrilled with it. I hope everybody in the US wants to feed it, but if they don't, if they like what they're feeding now or their vet recommends something, we get it. That means that people have something that they like, they might not want to switch, but they can always add a topper or a mix in, and they can always make their meal just a little bit better. So, I start to think about what people might want to do to make the usual meal an extra special dinner. My mind goes crazy. So yes, there're lots of really fun stuff coming. I've always been inspired by things that are really relevant for humans. So, things like superfoods and some of the superfood ingredients I'm totally into right now. I'll just give a little peek under the tent.
I'm totally into the benefit of mushrooms for human health and so many of the things that humans find value in terms of turkey tail mushrooms or lion's mane or chaga, all of those benefits that humans are getting out of those products translate to pet or antioxidants or probiotics, things like that. So, we're developing some really cool stuff that will come out at the end of the year and we're going to keep going from there, new and innovative things to add to the bowl.
Melanie Avalon: It reminds me as well you're talking about how these compounds and these foods that apply to humans apply to pets. I keep mentioning that The Forever Dog book, but really, listeners, I recommend reading it. That was the big takeaway I took from that book, was just how similar all of these practices that we do for ourselves as humans apply to our pets equally. It’s really, honestly pretty mind blowing. Also, something I thought of with you talking about animals with sensitivities and things like that. I learned a lot about prescription pet food, and I won't even go into it in granular detail. But that's something else she talks about in that book. That really blew my mind because I always thought prescription pet food was from a doctor. I thought it was actually really medical, but I don't want to get controversial. But it's not really, it's still a product of the pet food industry, which is shocking. Oh, you mentioned earlier how you reached out because you heard me share my story on the podcast. Was it me talking about how my cat Misty had died from diabetes? Was that what it was about?
Rebecca Rudisch: It might have. I vividly remember you talking about-- I think you had just started to dive deep into The Forever Dog when we met. I think you were just starting to recognize how challenging the pet food industry is. I think, yes, I think it was your cat and diabetes but I don't remember exactly.
Melanie Avalon: Because my cat Misty, who I adored, I actually have a story about that, but I'll circle back to it. Yeah so, she died of diabetes. I remember my mom made this comment. She was like, “Oh, well, all cats die from diabetes if they live long enough.” My mom has a tendency to make very exaggerated claims. So, I was like, “That's not true.” And then I went and googled it and yeah, basically I was looking up on PubMed, like cat mortality studies and basically if the modern house cat lives long enough, it usually dies from diabetes. And that blew my mind and that's when I was like, “Okay, there is something very wrong here in the conventional pet food system, very, very wrong."
Rebecca Rudisch: It's so true because we all know how preventable diabetes is for humans.
Melanie Avalon: Diabetes or kidney disease? I think it's kidney disease. I might need to resay that.
Rebecca Rudisch: Probably a combination of both and actually a little bit of a tangent, but we have a phenomenal vet on our team. She's absolutely incredible. I learn from her every day. And we happened to be at dinner just a couple of weeks ago and she was talking about one of the causes of kidney issues and bladder issues for cats is actually that they get really nervous and so their bladders or whatever, I don't know, if I can describe it the right way, and I don't want to paraphrase her because she's so brilliant, but it's their bladder spasm. If they were calmer and potentially had more even some calming supplements, that a lot of the bladder issues that cats had would not be prevalent. I was fascinated by that. So, I'm absolutely fortunate to have her on our team because she has really true insight into the why physically certain conditions happen with pets. I'm really optimistic that we're going to be able to do some great things and bring some really great solutions to the market too.
Melanie Avalon: I'm glad you said that because I think it was chronic kidney disease, but Misty did have diabetes, and like you said, I think it all goes together, and it's not something that like that doesn't happen in cats in the wild. So, there's something going on here. Well, okay. I have so many more things I could talk to you about, maybe to bring everything full circle because we opened this up in the beginning, talking more about you and your personal story. This is a tangent question, but what has been your experience as specifically a female in business? Again, I mentioned at the beginning how I'm just so inspired by you and everything that you've done. Have you had any experience of that being a hurdle in your journey or even in your favor? What is it like being a woman in business?
Rebecca Rudisch: I feel like I've been really lucky, but I also do look back and I think the world has evolved a lot since I started my career, and I definitely feel like there have been a lot of challenges and some opportunities too. I would say probably a mix of both. I definitely think that and I coach a lot of women as leaders and one of the things that I get the most energy out of in the world is building teams and specifically building up and helping women leaders along the way. I think the idea of the impostor syndrome is real. It's a real thing. I absolutely would say that I, at various points in time in my career, have had it. So, I think there's some aspect of being a woman and business that we might even get in our own way a little bit.
I take full ownership of the fact that there have been some situations where I have felt intimidated or I have felt like there have been challenges that I've been up against. I won't tell the full story, but some of the behavior of people on my team when I was really early in my career, it wouldn't be condoned today, let's just put it that way. But that was real. The guys had one set of rules and a social situation, and the women didn't or had a different set of rules, so to speak. I felt like in my career I've been able to overcome a lot and I've had a lot of really great opportunities. I moved fast. I had great opportunities for promotion and leadership. There were a couple of times when I did feel like there was more of boy’s club going on and I think a lot of that was pretty real.
I worked in companies that were pretty male dominated in many cases and I definitely felt that. I think probably the time that I felt the most like it was difficult to be a woman was really when I was fundraising for Yummers. It wasn't easy. I think, in the industry, there's just a lot of understanding that it is harder as a woman trying to raise money for a company. I don't really know what it is, but there still seems to be a little bit of a ceiling there. I was incredibly successful and I'm eternally grateful for it, but it was hard, and I definitely felt a little bit of that. At the same time, I do think that the world is changing quickly. I'm on a board that I know I was recruited onto because they wanted a woman and because it was founded by a very inspiring young woman.
One of her stipulations is that there would be a certain representation of women on the board. I feel pretty lucky about that because I was recruited and my gender certainly was a piece of the reason that I got the role. So, I think there's a lot happening that is really, I think, good. I would just give a lot of advice to anybody who is in the business world today. Taking advantage of every opportunity you have. I think probably the biggest piece of advice I would have is, if you have any of the impostor syndrome happening, get over it and find a way to get over it. One of the things that I like doing more than anything is helping others get past it because it's real. I would say it's not only women, but definitely I think women tend to have a lot of it just inherently.
Melanie Avalon: Well, I can speak to that to listeners that Rebecca is being completely authentic in everything that she said, because there've been so many times, I've connected you to fellow women that I know that you've wanted to connect with. I remember I didn't tell you this, but one of the women that I connected you to, I think you did a call with her or something, and then I talked to my friend afterwards, and she's like, “Rebecca is so nice. She's so incredible. She's so amazing.” She was like, “But I don't know what she wants from me, because she just says she wants to just help.” I was like, “She does,” [laughs] that's who she is. So, yeah. It's really wonderful to see you supporting fellow women and inspiring others and I know I personally appreciate it so, so much. One last question, how do you work on your work-life balance with your health now?
Rebecca Rudisch: I call it work-life integration. I don't know that I've ever had work-life balance. I'm just going to call it integration because if I'm being honest about it, I think that's probably more what it is. I would say in the last 10 years or so in my career, I feel very lucky that I have been able to really integrate my work and my life and I had the wonderful opportunity to remarry. I am with the love of my life now, who is so incredibly supportive of me and also really wants to participate and wants to be a part of what I'm doing at work and so I think one great blessing I have is I'm going to New York next week and my husband's like, “Oh, yeah, I'll come with you.” So, he's going to come. I'll be working most of the time that I'm there, but we'll hang out a little bit when I'm not working and probably go have a good foodie dinner and I'll send you pictures Melanie.
Melanie Avalon: Yes.
Rebecca Rudisch: You know, but I think that's a big piece and I've really started to be good about setting boundaries, and I don't think I was always good about this before, but talk about self-care or bio-hacks or whatever else I do, they are mandatory, and that is how I keep my energy up, that's how I eliminate stress. They're absolutely set in stone and I will not compromise them. It doesn't mean that I get to do red light every day. It doesn't mean that I get to go do the CAROL Bike every day. But I definitely schedule time for those things. Not as much as you, Melanie. You are my inspiration as it relates to blocking off your calendar for self-care. I will someday be that good. But I do know how important it is for me as a leader to have the energy that I need to be a leader.
Those are things that are just they're nonnegotiable. So, I think to summarize, I would say set boundaries. I schedule in the time that I need for myself whether it's exercise or self-care or whatever. I bring my husband and my friends into the work that I do and I'm really lucky to do that. I've recognized that it's always a journey and I have to stay flexible and I also have to make sure that others are flexible. The other thing I would say is that I'm really proud of this. I'm so proud of this. Yummers is the first time that I've had the ability to create a company culture from the ground up. I've worked for big companies before, the culture is what it is and you can have a tiny impact, but you can't really change Target. I loved it, I loved it there, but it was Target and I get to create the culture for Yummers. It's really important to me that wellness is at the core of our culture.
So, you talk about work-life balance and you talk about wellness. One of the things that we do as a team is, if we have a meeting that's over like 2 hours long, like if we have a monthly meeting or something, we do a walking break. So, we all go off video and we take our phones and we go for a walk and we walk and talk about something that doesn't require a presentation. Or when we have our team off sites, we have them at my house because we're a tiny little team. But when we have our team off sites, we build in time for a walk every day after lunch, we build in wellness time. I instituted a wellness benefit with the team and they love it. We all have our wellness goals and we talk about them as a team and we help each other out and support each other. So, I try to bring that work-life balance in a lot of different ways. I don't think there is any one way, but it's something that's incredibly important to me and always top of mind.
Melanie Avalon: I love that reframe of work-life integration. It just occurred to me, I think we need to rebrand the word self-care because I think we don't call like-- when we take our car to the gas station, we don't call it self-care for the car. We call it just filling up the car with gas. I just think it's so important. You have to schedule time into your life to fill yourself up with energy and rest and you have to take care of your body that you're in. We call it self-care. Then I think people think that's selfish because of the word. So, I'm voting for like a new word for self-care.
Rebecca Rudisch: I will vote with you. That's a good point.
Melanie Avalon: Well, thank you. This has been so incredibly amazing. Again, you're so kind. So, for listeners, if you like to get your own Yummers, so you can get 20% off sitewide @yummerspets.com/ifpodcast and then you can also get that free dog food and one of their three flavors for free, just go to yummerspets.com/ifpodcast and that offer will be there as well. Well, this was amazing. Anything else that you would like to share with our listeners, Rebecca, about Yummers or where you're at or anything that you would like to put out there.
Rebecca Rudisch: I mean, please take us up on the opportunity to try out some Yummers like it would mean the world to us. And please provide any feedback. We're trying to be the most amazing company for your pets, so please do that. I just want to say thank you, Melanie. Your community is so inspiring and I know that it is because of all the hard work that you do. And you've been so kind to me in this conversation. I just want to say you were a true inspiration to me and I know to so many of the people who are listening today. So, thank you for having me. This has been really really special.
Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness, you're so sweet. I so enjoyed this and I'm so grateful that you sent that email and reached out those many many months ago, because for listeners, Rebecca and I have many potential adventures we want to go on in the future. But I just so appreciate your friendship and this relationship and I'm super excited to see everything that you do with Yummers and I'm super excited for listeners to try it and report back. So, yes, this has been wonderful and I guess I will talk to you very soon.
Rebecca Rudisch: Talk to you soon. Thank you so much, Melanie.
Melanie Avalon: You too, Rebecca. Bye.
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.
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STUFF WE LIKE
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Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Vanessa's Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight
The Tone Device Breath Ketone Analyzer
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com
Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com
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