Welcome to Episode 347 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:
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SHOW NOTES
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Go to victus88.com and use the discount code MELANIEAVALON for $55 off Victus88 testing!
vince's background
the 4 markers tested
immune responses to food
igE allergies
what do people react to most?
food antigens
elimination protocols
the algorithm used for results
FOOD SENSE GUIDE: Get Melanie's app to tackle your food sensitivities! Food Sense includes a searchable catalogue of 300+ foods, revealing their gluten, fodmap, lectin, histamine, amine, glutamate, oxalate, salicylate, sulfite, and thiol status. Food Sense also includes compound overviews, reactions to look for, lists of foods high and low in them, the ability to create your own personal lists, and more!
retesting
the report provided with the test
Wheat and gluten
igM reaction
getting the kit and collecting the sample
the cost benefit
nutrition coaching
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Welcome to Episode 347 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Bannals. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
Hi friends, welcome back to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
I am so incredibly thrilled and excited friends about the conversation that I'm about to have. I am just so excited. Okay, so here is the backstory on today's conversation. We talk a lot about food and diet on this show.
Melanie Avalon:
We talk a lot about food sensitivities and reacting to food and finding the foods that work with you. We get questions all the time about food sensitivity tests and do they work? Are they accurate? How to approach them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Melanie Avalon:
I've been very interested in the food sensitivity testing world typical test, and we'll talk about this in the show, but there's a lot of different tests that will test things like IgG, maybe IgM. I've historically always just wondered if those tests were accurate, because there's a lot of debate out there about are they actually showing you sensitivities?
Melanie Avalon:
Are they just showing you what you're eating? And I was kind of just, I had it on my to -do list to really research it some more and hopefully find a company that was doing some sort of testing that I could feel really, really good about.
Melanie Avalon:
And so it was so perfect, so serendipitous. A lot of you guys know Scott Emmins, because he is my partner with AvalonX at MDLogic. He's been on quite a few episodes of this show. So Scott introduced me to Vince Ojeda.
Melanie Avalon:
He is the CEO of BioVision Diagnostics, and they have a product called Victus88. It's a gut health test. And friends, I did a call with Vince a while ago now, and it blew my mind. I was so excited because what he is doing is exactly what I've been looking for for so long, which is a test that can actually show you your food sensitivities.
Melanie Avalon:
And we're gonna talk about why that is. It's a very accurate, complex picture that you're going to receive. And I'm gonna just stop rambling because there's so many specifics that we just need to dive into.
Melanie Avalon:
But Vince, thank you so much for being here.
Vince Ojeda:
Thank you for having me and you're very welcome.
Melanie Avalon:
I just, I can't iterate enough how excited I am about this. And especially when I talk to you on the phone that first time, because, you know, because I meet with companies and products all the time and going into them, I never, I'm always like, not quite sure how it's going to go and the level of detail or knowledge that they're going to have about whatever the topic may be.
Melanie Avalon:
And talking to you was just so exciting because it was literally all these questions that I've had for so long. So to start things off though with the listeners, and you told me this on the phone, but would you like to tell them a little bit about your personal story and your journey with food and food reactions and what led you to this experience with Victus88?
Vince Ojeda:
Oh, absolutely. Again, my name is Vince Ojeda and one of the things that I think everyone needs to know about me first off is that I'm a laboratory person by background. So I grew up in the lab business.
Vince Ojeda:
I've been in the business for close to 30 years now in different capacities. So I've seen a lot of tests through the years that have come and gone. And when I learned about this approach to testing for food sensitivities, it kind of like you, it blew my mind.
Vince Ojeda:
It was one of those things where I looked at it, I had a few doctors that I work with look at it, and we all just started scratching our heads going, this is incredible. This is a whole new approach.
Vince Ojeda:
And so my experience really was in the summer of 2022, when we were launching this test directly to the consumer, and I was doing some media, I was starting to get out and talk to some people. And I was doing a pre interview for a podcast.
Vince Ojeda:
And the interviewer asked me, what were your results like? And I said, well, I haven't taken the test yet. So that's not going to be a good question to ask me. And she said, what are you crazy? She goes, this is your company, this is your test.
Vince Ojeda:
I said, we've been so busy beta testing this with everybody else. So the moral of the story is take your own darn test when you have something, you know, a gold nugget in your hand, you need to take.
Vince Ojeda:
So when I took the test in the summer at the late summer of 2022, I had just turned 50 years old. I was a little over 50 pounds overweight. I just had my doctor's appointment with my doctor who's a good friend of mine.
Vince Ojeda:
And he told me three things at that appointment. He said, you are morbidly obese, you have high blood pressure, we're going to have to up your medication. And technically, you're pre diabetic. And my wife is a nurse.
Vince Ojeda:
And like I said, I've been in the lab business for almost 30 years. So I know what that means. I know what those three things mean to anyone. And when you hear it for yourself, when, when you become the patient and you hear those words being said to you, it has a different impact.
Vince Ojeda:
And so I took the Victus88 gut health test. And I said to myself and everyone around me, I'm going to become the face of Victus88, meaning I'm going to go all in with my results. And I'm going to see exactly what this test can do.
Vince Ojeda:
So when I got my results, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, I'm sure how the results work and what you can do about it. I went all in. And I did everything the report suggested I do. I eliminated the foods that were toxic to my body.
Vince Ojeda:
And Melanie within three days, I was waking up earlier, I had more energy, I was getting things done faster, and more organized. And my wife even said to me, what is going on with you? And I said, I think it's these foods that I'm not eating anymore.
Vince Ojeda:
Within a couple of weeks, I had started losing some weight, I was feeling so much better. Like I said, I had so much more energy, I was like, you know what, I'm going to go to the gym. I hadn't been to the gym in 15 years.
Vince Ojeda:
And I'll never forget Melanie, I got on that treadmill for the first time. And I thought, you know what, I'm going to walk a mile. That's my goal. I'm going to walk a mile. And one mile, as you know, over time turns into two turns into three turns into lifting weights turns into doing other things.
Vince Ojeda:
And so what I'm saying is this test opened the door for me to be able to improve every other aspect of my health and wellness and of my life. So when someone asks me what did Victus88 do for you, I could go on forever because I've lost over 55 pounds.
Vince Ojeda:
I've put on tons of lean muscle mass. I've been able to really self educate myself about not just food sensitivities, but everything else that goes around health and wellness. And I've been able to utilize that information to make my entire life better.
Vince Ojeda:
But it all started with this very simple test that anybody can take, you can take it at home. And we give you the results. And I always tell people, we'll meet you halfway, we'll give you the information you'll need, you'll have this result that will show you exactly what you need to do.
Vince Ojeda:
But I cannot go sit at your dining room table with you and say, Melanie, that was on your red list, you shouldn't be eating that right now. You know what I mean? So you've got to do the work, but we'll give you all the information.
Vince Ojeda:
We'll open that door for you. And that's what Victus88 did for me. And that's what we're trying to do now for as many people as possible, moving forward.
Melanie Avalon:
This is so incredible, so empowering. If listeners are curious, I have not done the test yet, so I'm really, really excited to do it personally. And we're actually going to have Vince back on my other show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
So I will have done it before then. So you'll definitely, listeners, have to check out that interview for my own personal experience. But I love that story. I love your testimonial. And I think it's so profound how many potential things that this could help with people that they probably don't even realize.
Melanie Avalon:
Because I think when people think food sensitivities, they think immediate GI reactions. So like their stomach not feeling well, or maybe bowel issues, constipation diarrhea. But it goes so far potentially beyond that.
Melanie Avalon:
Because if you're putting an essentially kryptonite into your body every day and not realizing it in your food choices, just think about the massive potential of energy you can free up in your body energetically for health issues.
Melanie Avalon:
And like you mentioned with like the weight. And I just think there's just so much potential here. So the actual test itself, I am just so excited about it. So it tests four markers, IgE, IgG, IgG4, and C3D.
Melanie Avalon:
So what do these four different markers mean?
Vince Ojeda:
That is a great question. And I agree with you 100%. When people think of poor gut health, they think, well, I know what foods make me bloated. I know what foods make me constipated or give me diarrhea.
Vince Ojeda:
Those are those immediate dIgEstive reactions. And that's important to know. And that's important to avoid those foods, because obviously your body's reacting to those. And we always say these foods are either going to help you or they're going to hurt you.
Vince Ojeda:
And so what we do with these four immune reactions, when you realize that 70% to 80% of your immune system is located in your gut, that should tell you that whatever you're putting into your gut is going to stimulate some type of an immune response.
Vince Ojeda:
The good news is that as a laboratory, we can measure those responses to the foods that you're eating. And I want to make a slight distinction here, just so everybody understands. You don't have to have eaten these foods in the last day or in the last week or any time in your life for that matter.
Vince Ojeda:
We're going to add that food to your sample. Then we're going to measure that reaction in the lab. So we're going to get reactions, good, bad, or indifferent from these foods that we're measuring. And the reason we measure four reactions is because each of those markers that you mentioned, and I'll go through them very quickly, means something different to your body.
Vince Ojeda:
The IgE that you mentioned is typically indicative of an allergic reaction. The IgG is related to more of a sensitivity. The IgG4, we call that a good reaction because that can create tolerance. So even if you're having an allergic reaction, you might have this other inflammatory response called IgG4 that comes in and helps your body with that food.
Vince Ojeda:
And then the C3D is a complement reaction. And what that does is it amplifies some of these reactions, sometimes 1 ,000 to 10 ,000 times what a normal inflammation response would be. So we have to measure all four of those in order to get the full picture of what we're trying to look at here.
Vince Ojeda:
And the key to this whole thing is that we're getting these numbers, we're getting these numeric values per immune reaction, and we can talk all sciency about that. But the bottom line is we have formulated a proprietary algorithm that we put these numbers through that will then tell you the level of the severity of each sensitivity to these food antIgEns that we're adding to your sample.
Vince Ojeda:
So we're giving you the complete picture. We're using the proprietary algorithm to measure the severity of that sensitivity. And then we're going to wrap it all up into what we refer to as a nutrition blueprint that's personalized and customized to you based on your body's reactions of those foods.
Vince Ojeda:
So we're not going to sit there and tell you, oh, eat more leafy green vegetables. That's great advice. But what if you're allergic to lettuce? What if you have a sensitivity to kale? You know, so we have to be careful about what we give people in terms of generic information.
Vince Ojeda:
This is very specific to your body and your body's reactions to those foods.
Melanie Avalon:
of food on that list that you... And I guess most people have been exposed at some point to all the foods. But if there's a food that you've never, ever actually been exposed to, if your body reacts at that moment, does that mean that that's the first time that the body's forming an immune response to that food and learning that reaction right then and there?
Melanie Avalon:
I was researching the process of how the body becomes allergic and the first time it's exposed and then it's creating these antIgEns and this reaction and then the memory T cells and everything. So, if you've actually never been exposed to that food, you can't have a memory of being exposed to it.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm just confused about people who have never tried these foods before and they react to it.
Vince Ojeda:
I think that's a good question. The bottom line is when you research immunity and especially food sensitivities or even environmental sensitivities like pollen and grass and things like that, there are still a lot of unknowns about why the body reacts the way it does.
Vince Ojeda:
So the real answer is the information that we're going to give you is going to be based on what your body is actually doing. It's not based on the history or some other previous response that you had to it.
Vince Ojeda:
Typically, you'll be able to predict which foods are going to be on what we call your red list. For example, gluten. If you know that gluten makes you bloated or it gives you diarrhea or has some other type of dIgEstive reaction, we're pretty sure that gluten is going to be on your red list.
Vince Ojeda:
I don't eat a lot of lobster, but lobster was on my eliminate list the first time I took a test. So that surprised me because I'm sitting there thinking, I don't even eat lobster. Well, you can have that one of two ways.
Vince Ojeda:
Number one, you know the test is working because it's identifying reactions that your body is giving to that food. And number two, that's an easy one to eliminate because if you've got a food that you never eat that's on your eliminate list, okay, so be it.
Vince Ojeda:
I don't need it anyway. And that's actually when we get further into it, that's one of the big pieces of advice we give to people is look at those foods first and look at the foods that you don't eat anyway and start there.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, so in a way, it almost doesn't even matter because it's showing you now like where you're at and what you need to do. That's great. So the IgE, for example, because I think out of these four, even for me, when I first approached this, I was familiar with IgE and IGG.
Melanie Avalon:
So the IgE for the allergies, and I was going down the rabbit hole reading about that, apparently it's only like 0 .05% of our immune system, but it's the most potent with the allergic responses. So are those things that people are born with, the IgE allergies versus the sensitivities, the IgE, is that something that's more created from our food and our environment?
Melanie Avalon:
What do you see with that? Like are people born at blank slate with allergies?
Vince Ojeda:
You asked a question that technically doesn't have an answer because most of the research that we've done has shown that the body's immune reactions. We don't know there's no our food allergies genetic no are you born with them we don't know does your body change over time yes does your immune system change over time of course look at people who have had.
Vince Ojeda:
Cancer and survivors of cancer and things like that you know that their bodies immune systems completely change my nephew for example had a bone marrow transplant when he was four years old that completely transformed his immune system and so.
Vince Ojeda:
We do things to our body whether it's environmental medical. Situational anything that we're doing to our body is going to be changing our immune system. All the time look at the different viruses that are introduced to us on a we just went through a pandemic right you know that's gonna change your immune system so there are there are things that are happening around us that and i think to get back to the basic point of why Victus88 is so important.
Vince Ojeda:
You said it earlier and i'll put it in a different way it's a snapshot it's giving you the hearing now of the foods that are impacting your body right now and at what level of severity and i think that's important because when you have.
Vince Ojeda:
That list of foods in front of you and you're at the grocery store and you know that you've got a green list a yellow list and a red list of foods in front of you you can make actionable decisions based on that report right then and there.
Vince Ojeda:
I'll give you one example of what i did not everybody does this but i did because i of course i'm i had to go all in i eliminated 23 foods from my diet of the 88 that we test for i eliminated 23 of those foods for six months.
Vince Ojeda:
Entirely bar none no exceptions no cheating no nothing when i took the test again at the six month mark. Twenty of those 23 foods fell off of my red list moved to my green list my body my gut had healed and my body had created a tolerance to those foods so that i could reintroduce those into my diet did i reintroduce everything no i still avoid gluten i still avoid cows milk i still avoid certain things that.
Vince Ojeda:
I know still would probably have i have a reaction to and i just feel healthier not eating certain things so that's an important point to is that. You're not born with it because your gut can heal right so we damage our gut over time and then we give it a chance to heal like i did after six months and you can reintroduce those foods so that's a good thing that your body reacts and heals that way when you think about when you when you get a cut on your skin what is it do what does it do.
Vince Ojeda:
It forms a scab why is that because your body is self healing and your gut is the same way when you give it a chance to heal your gut will self heal and I think that's the point of Victus88 is you're giving your body that chance to heal itself.
Melanie Avalon:
That's so fascinating about going the six months and then the food's moving from the red to the green list. So when that happens, and I understand that there's an algorithm and I'm assuming it, well, I guess this is part of the question.
Melanie Avalon:
When that shift happens, from foods going from red to green, for example, is it that the IgG, the sensitivity goes down and the IgG for tolerance goes up? Does just the tolerance go up and the IgG is still there?
Melanie Avalon:
What is the potential options for how the immune system is changing? Do you just get more tolerance or do you also lose the sensitivity or is it a combination?
Vince Ojeda:
It is definitely a combination. You, your body creates more tolerance and you lose some of the sensitivity because if you're not introducing those foods into your body that are toxic to your body, your body's not reacting to them all the time.
Vince Ojeda:
And that's the main problem with food sensitivities is that when you're constantly introducing foods into your body that are toxic to you and you don't know it because we often say, we don't know what we don't know, you're actually creating what's referred to in our business and yours as well, I'm sure as chronic inflammation.
Vince Ojeda:
And you know the list of diseases that are associated with chronic inflammation. So if you can avoid those foods that you know are creating toxicity in your body and give your body a chance to create that tolerance, reduce the sensitivity, give your gut a chance to heal.
Vince Ojeda:
And yes, it is a combination of all of those. Then you're giving your entire immune system a chance to recover and build a better immune system and better tolerance to all foods for that matter. I'm the case in point.
Vince Ojeda:
I mean, I've lived it, I've seen it.
Melanie Avalon:
You know what I would be super interested about? I actually just interviewed for this show Dr. Valter Longo. He's one of the main fasting researchers, possibly the main fasting researcher. He does a lot of research on the fasting mimicking diet, which is a five day diet that sort of simulates the fasting state.
Melanie Avalon:
And I know they've done a lot of research on how it can reset the immune system. I'd be super curious, A, how extended fasts would affect people's turnover rates or changes, and also our audience being fasters.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm just super curious if people who do intermittent fasting, if they get faster results after removing the foods and the turnover. Do you have any thoughts about fasting? I don't know if you collect data on your users as far as their eating habits and their fasting habits.
Vince Ojeda:
We really don't right now, but I will tell you that that would make sense, that if you're doing the intermittent fasting, if you're doing any fasting protocol, that if you're in addition to that eliminating the foods that are hurting you in the first place, then that body's response, that immune response should improve quicker in a shorter amount of time.
Vince Ojeda:
So, that would make total sense to me, but I don't have any data points on that because we don't collect anything on our patients. We do for our medical patients. So, we have two patient populations.
Vince Ojeda:
We have a medical population who we work through, you know, holistic practitioners and doctors and things like that. The bulk of our business, the vast majority of our business though, is with patients who are direct consumer.
Vince Ojeda:
They go on to our website. If they have to have a doctor's order, we provide that. Then they just order it online and we send them a kit and they send the kit back to us.
Melanie Avalon:
Gotcha. I almost don't want to ask this question because I don't want people to make assumptions about what foods they may or may not react to. But I am super curious out of these 88 foods, like is there a few foods that most people tend to react to and a few that tend to be less reactive?
Melanie Avalon:
If I were to guess, I would guess that things like gluten are higher up there and things like meat might be lower and then plants like in between. I don't know. I don't know. Like did you have data on the spectrum of reactions?
Vince Ojeda:
We don't track data per food only because we know that every result is going to be individualized to that patient. What I will tell you is that you are spot on. What we see the most of are things like gluten, cow's milk, egg albumin, and egg yolk because we test for both.
Vince Ojeda:
We test for the egg white and the egg yolk, things like that. When you look at the meats and some of the other things like that, they're much lower on the list. Typically, that said, black pepper is a big one.
Vince Ojeda:
We test for black pepper and garlic. That's another big one that we see quite often on these results as something to eliminate. It really does run the gamut. When you talk about gluten and cow's milk and things like that, for sure, those are the big ones.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm so excited to do mine. Do you test chives? I eat a lot of chives. They're in the onion family though.
Vince Ojeda:
they are, so we test for onion. And one of the things to keep in mind is that there are 88 food antIgEns that we test for. So we're going to measure these four immune responses in all 88 of those food antigens.
Vince Ojeda:
We also provide you with our gut guide. When you get your result, you also get access to our gut guide. And in that gut guide, there is a food family guide where you can parse out each of those foods so chives would be under that onion family.
Vince Ojeda:
And there are 382 foods in the food families that we test for. So there's a huge swath of foods that are really included in this test if you parse it down to those food families.
Melanie Avalon:
That's why I was going with that question partly because out of all the foods I think chives would be the one that's probably not on there. But then I was thinking about how it's in the onion family because I saw that chart, which was super cool where you can see the family and the other foods that are related.
Melanie Avalon:
How much does that transfer? If I came back allergic to onions, would I pretty much apply that to chives, at least for the elimination period? How much do people avoid that whole family if the food is in the red from that family?
Vince Ojeda:
simplicity sake, most of our customers deal with the food antIgEn itself. So typically if someone has onions on their list, they're probably not going to go to the food family and eliminate asparagus and chives and garlic and leek, you know, all those other foods in that family.
Vince Ojeda:
However, it's your choice. So we always tell people, we're going to meet you halfway. We're going to give you the information. You're going to have all this information at your fingertips and you can go as far as you want with it.
Vince Ojeda:
We have customers and patients who say, you know what, I absolutely cannot give up my peanuts. Okay, you've got 11 other foods on there, so you're eliminating 90% of the foods that are offending your body.
Vince Ojeda:
So 90% is better than 0%. And when you get down in those food families, it gets very, very detailed and some of these food families have 12, 15 other foods in them. So it's tough to do that. So we're really at that top level of these 88 foods.
Vince Ojeda:
If you eliminate those, you're doing a lot better than you were before you took the test.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I can imagine. And I'm super curious going back to the actual immune markers themselves, because like I said, I just never, this is what I've been looking for. I've never found a test where they are testing the actual IgG, IgE, and then also these coloring, tolerance, and amplification markers with the IgG4 and the C3D complement.
Melanie Avalon:
And for listeners, so if they would like to get their own kit, we're so grateful. Vince has a discount code for you guys. So the website is victus88.com. And you can use the coupon code Melanie Avalon to get a discount on your kit.
Melanie Avalon:
So I definitely cannot recommend enough that people check that out. I'm really, really excited about that. And for listeners, these show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode347. And those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about.
Melanie Avalon:
And they will actually include, we will put a picture there because I know it's kind of hard hearing all of these letters and these IgG, IgE, IgG4, all these things. If you want to actually see it, we'll put a really nice picture in the show notes that kind of helps no pun intended paint of a clearer picture of everything.
Melanie Avalon:
So again, show notes ifpodcast.com/episode347. And we will also put in the show notes the discount code, which will be Melanie Avalon and that will get you a discount on Victus88 at victus88.com.
Melanie Avalon:
So definitely check that out. Besides IgG4 for tolerance and C3D for amplification, are there other tolerance ones and other amplification ones? Or how did you guys find these two markers? I'm just blown away that nobody else is doing this.
Vince Ojeda:
Markers have been there for decades, and I think that is the kind of the crux of the issue right now is that most of the other tests that are on the market will test you for either an allergy or a sensitivity.
Vince Ojeda:
Sometimes you can get both if you pay extra. We include all four because these are the four that are the most important to your body's immune reactions, obviously. Technically, any lab could do this testing.
Vince Ojeda:
The biggest difference is that we test for all four immune reactions, and when we give you those results, you have that full picture of what your body's reacting to with those 88 different foods. The biggest difference really is in that algorithm and how we calculate the level of the severity of the sensitivity and break those out for you in that simplified nutrition blueprint that you can print those pages off, take it to the grocery store, take a screenshot on your phone, and you'll know which foods to avoid and which foods you're safe with, and it makes a lot of sense that way.
Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. We're mentioning the green and the red, but there's also a yellow list.
Vince Ojeda:
There is, yes.
Melanie Avalon:
What's the yellow list?
Vince Ojeda:
The nutrition blueprint has the three columns of food. There's actually two pages that are the most important in this entire report. And in those two pages, each one has the green list which is no limitation.
Vince Ojeda:
You can eat those foods all you want. The yellow list is a rotate list. In other words, you can rotate those foods in and out of your diet every 72 hours. So your body had some reaction but not enough of a reaction to cause you to eliminate that food entirely from your diet.
Vince Ojeda:
And of course the red list is the eliminate list which is you need to take those foods entirely out of your diet because those are the foods that are causing immune reactions that are causing your issues.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, so question about the yellow list. So, you know, so that has the option to rotate it. Like you said, every 72 hours. Could you also take the eliminate approach with the yellow list and try to get those yellow foods to move to green later?
Melanie Avalon:
you
Vince Ojeda:
Yes, absolutely. There are, I've seen some reports where there are a lot of foods on that yellow list and it is tough to remember which ones to rotate. Myself, I had just a few in my yellow list so it was pretty easy.
Vince Ojeda:
I had eggs, I had egg yolk and egg white in my yellow list so that was pretty easy for me. I only eat eggs at the time once or twice a week anyway so that was easy for me to rotate. And then typically, yes, typically what patients will do is take their yellow list and just move them to the red list.
Vince Ojeda:
Sometimes it's practically speaking, it's just easier to do it that way.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay. And what is the sensitivity and specificity of the test? Actually, I think I asked you this on the phone, like how accurate and are there false positives, false negatives? How accurate is it?
Vince Ojeda:
The accuracy of the test is extremely high because, again, we're measuring age -old, decades -old immune reactions in a laboratory setting. So this is a what's considered a highly complex laboratory test.
Vince Ojeda:
So we're measuring these reactions. They're steadfast, old bygone reactions that we can measure on an instrument, on an analyzer that gives us a number. It's a hard and fast number. There really are no false negatives or positives because these are numeric values coming off of an analyzer run in a laboratory.
Vince Ojeda:
I mean, the main thing really is that algorithm. It's putting those pieces together. If you go to the store and you buy a puzzle with a thousand pieces in it and you open the box and there's only 250 pieces in there, you're never going to be able to put that puzzle together.
Vince Ojeda:
What we give you are all 1 ,000 pieces. So you can put that whole puzzle together and see that whole picture of your immunity to those 88 different foods.
Melanie Avalon:
Has the algorithm evolved or changed or does it evolve and change as you... I know it's anonymous data, but as you do these tests and people retest, which that could be another question as well, has the algorithm changed?
Melanie Avalon:
I'm super just curious, like before you tested anybody, did you create this algorithm without having this massive population sample?
Vince Ojeda:
The algorithm changes, it definitely changes over time because as you add more patient population to the statistical values of the reference range, what we call a reference range in the laboratory, which is your zero to 100, your low to high and everything in between, those reference ranges change over time with people as you add more people to those ranges.
Vince Ojeda:
So we evaluate that on an annual basis, so we don't evaluate it every month or anything like that. So typically when those reference ranges change, that's when the algorithm is going to change. I will tell you it's ever, ever, ever so slight.
Vince Ojeda:
Barely, rarely do we see a major change where we would have shifted a lot of people into this other category. It's pretty solid as far as how the algorithm is consistent. Very rarely would we change something to where people would shift into a different category on a regular basis.
Vince Ojeda:
It's just, that's not, yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
So that led to my second question, the actual retesting. So when people are doing this, can people benefit from just doing it once? Do they need to be retesting? If so, how often are they retesting? What does that process look like?
Vince Ojeda:
Most of our customers do the test one time. It's their option if they want to retest. What we do recommend is that when you do the, when you get your first result and you follow that protocol, follow it for at least three months.
Vince Ojeda:
You don't have to do it six like I did. I was pretty extreme, but I was on a mission. So I had a different perspective, right? The typical patient will go about three months with that protocol. If you see the changes, you feel the changes, which you will, you'll know when those changes are happening because it happens very quickly, by the way.
Vince Ojeda:
It may not be necessary to retest. I retested because I was very curious. There were a lot of foods on my red list that I wanted to reintroduce back into my diet. So I was seeing some foods, right? So that's why I retested.
Vince Ojeda:
We do have a certain segment of our patient population who want to retest and see it on paper in writing. Yep, sure enough, I tried peanuts the other day and I had no reaction. I didn't have any eczema.
Vince Ojeda:
I didn't get any headaches the next day like I used to. So you can, if you're listening to your body and you're in touch with how your body's feeling and showing itself to you, because your body does show you exactly what it's feeling, then you don't necessarily need to retest.
Vince Ojeda:
We recommend it for people who are on the fence with some foods, but they want to know for sure.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, that makes sense. I would definitely be like you. I'd want to retest. I don't want to know for sure. I would probably want to be retesting like, you know, yearly because that's just me.
Vince Ojeda:
Yeah, I do every six months.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, that's good to know. As something else that you talk about in the results, not testing from the actual people's immune responses, but I believe there is information about FODMAPs and amines and moldy food as well.
Melanie Avalon:
What are the other foods that it talks about in people's reports or other compounds?
Vince Ojeda:
and food. Sure. So we provide what we refer to as the nutrition blueprint, which is going to be your green list, your yellow list, and your red list. We're going to give you a less restrictive and a more restrictive diet.
Vince Ojeda:
So you can choose between those two, which one you want to do. We also provide you with an immune index, which is basically a list of rank order, high to low, what kind of reactions you had in your foods by an order of the 88 foods.
Vince Ojeda:
And then we will also give you what we refer to as biogenic compounds. These are not immune response driven, but they can mimic irritations and allergies. So you kind of wonder, okay, is this is this in a reaction?
Vince Ojeda:
So oxalates amines, histamines, lectins, FODMAP, like you mentioned, salicylate and some others. So that's a separate page in the report. And then we also give you some exposures by food group. We're not measuring each reaction by group, or we're measuring very specific reactions by the 88 foods, as we mentioned, but then we break it down into food groups.
Vince Ojeda:
So you may have more sensitivities to regular fish and more allergic reactions to shellfish. We also look at seeds and nuts, fruits versus vegetables, legumes and beans, meats and dairy. So we give you all of that information.
Vince Ojeda:
These reports usually run about 14, 15 pages long, just so you know.
Melanie Avalon:
You just had so many keywords. I know listeners are familiar. I made my app food sense guide. It's not obviously at all looking at immune reactions, but it was because I was so fascinated by people's reactions to things you mentioned, FODMAP, histamine, solicilates.
Melanie Avalon:
So, man, sounds like this whole pair really well with that. People would just like to learn more about the non -immunogenic responses and things. So you guys have a really awesome website, which the website is victus88.com.
Melanie Avalon:
So, v -i -c -t -u -s -8 -8 .com. There's a really awesome guide that you can download that has an FAQ and it goes through all of this and it gives you an idea of what to expect and what you can learn.
Melanie Avalon:
And it's really comprehensive and really helpful. And it even has questions. Like one of the questions on it was, like what is the difference between gluten and wheat on the report? And, you know, people may think that they react to gluten, but it doesn't show up on the results.
Melanie Avalon:
And so, you know, it talks about all of that out of curiosity, by the way, gluten versus wheat. What's the difference there? Cause I think that's something people think about all the time as far as reacting to things.
Melanie Avalon:
And they kind of lump them together as one thing.
Vince Ojeda:
that they do and I will tell you that typically if you have a reaction to gluten so severe that we're telling you to eliminate it from your diet, we will typically tell you to eliminate barley, rye and whole wheat as well.
Vince Ojeda:
Just that being said, gluten is in whole wheat. However, wheat also has different proteins that can be reactive. So that's why we measure for both. So you could have a sensitivity to whole wheat but not the gluten.
Vince Ojeda:
When you have a reaction to gluten, we're automatically going to eliminate whole wheat because gluten is in whole wheat, if that makes sense.
Melanie Avalon:
I understand the algorithm is doing this work for the person and that it's putting the foods into the green, red, and yellow. So does it even matter? Because I'm envisioning how I'm probably going to react.
Melanie Avalon:
Like if I get back, because I know for me personally from a prior blood test, well, this was a while ago though, but I have an IgE reaction to wheat. So if I were to see my results on the Victus88 test, like does it even matter, say wheat is in the red for me?
Melanie Avalon:
Does it matter if it's an IgE versus IgG as far as the potential implications of if I can switch it over to green?
Vince Ojeda:
This is why we measure all four immune responses because if you have an i g e response which you said from a previous lab report you did have an i g e response to two to whole wheat. Problem is they didn't measure you for i g g four which is your tolerance the tolerance can offset the allergy so that's why we say i g g four can actually be good that's why we measure it because it can counterbalance that allergic reaction meaning.
Vince Ojeda:
Your body is actually protecting you at the same time as having an allergic reaction if that makes sense so i would say you might still have weed on your report but you might also have have a tolerance reaction to where.
Vince Ojeda:
Our report may say no melanie that that's green for you weeks we totally fine cuz your immune tolerance.
Melanie Avalon:
And do you find that people who have the IgE versus the IGG, like, is it easier to switch over IGG ones versus IgE ones, or are either of them open for switching?
Vince Ojeda:
The tolerance reaction is only going to impact the allergy.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, okay.
Vince Ojeda:
Yeah, so the the IGG -4 is not going to do anything for your IGG, which is your sensitivity.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, that's interesting. So you have the allergy, the IgG for tolerance can help that. So the sensitivity, the IgG, that's one where you just have to essentially lose the sensitivity by not exposing yourself to it and healing your gut.
Melanie Avalon:
Boom. Correct.
Vince Ojeda:
Correct, exactly. Okay. That's the one where you're giving your gut a chance to heal. You give your immune response or your immune system a chance to settle down, give your gut a chance to heal, get rid of your leaky gut, and then you can reintroduce those foods based on your body's reactions after that first few months.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, and then the amplification, the C3D complement, does that amplify both sensitivities and allergies or just one of them?
Vince Ojeda:
Typically the C3D complement is only going to amplify the sensitivity reaction, which is the IgG. The problem is that that complement, when that's present with an IgG response, it can be 1 ,000 to 10 ,000 times the normal sensitivity response.
Vince Ojeda:
So that's a lot. That makes a huge difference. And again, that's why we added this to our test protocol, because it makes such a big difference in the practical application of what you're going to do with that food.
Vince Ojeda:
You cannot do this test with one of these or two of these. You have to have all four, because as you can see, they all intermingle. Some offset each other, some amplify each other. So you have to have all four to run them through this algorithm to give you this list of foods that says safe, not safe, rotate.
Melanie Avalon:
And what about so you don't have IGM, which like when I've done testing in the past, it would always test me for IGG and IGM. Is that one just not relevant to what people are looking to gain here information wise?
Vince Ojeda:
The IgM reaction is typically a reaction that is so fast that by the time you measure it and by the, you know, a couple of hours can pass and that IgM reaction is not going to be there anymore. So the IgE reaction is a valuable reaction to measure.
Vince Ojeda:
The IgM is so quick and furious that it's out of your system by the time it's going to make any type of even short -term impact on your body.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, wow. Okay. Very interesting. And then so the actual process. So when people get the kit and again, listeners who have to circle back when we have been on the biohacking podcast and hear my experience, but for listeners who get the kit, what is the process like?
Melanie Avalon:
How easy is it? What are the options for collecting the sample? What does that look like?
Vince Ojeda:
Sure. The process is extremely simple. We spend a lot of time making this a seamless, simple process for customers. They go to the website. You mentioned it earlier. It's victus88.com. They will click on order test.
Vince Ojeda:
Well, first, read about it. Learn more. We've got some links there and some good information on our social media as well. We're putting a lot of content out there for people. Order the test. You fill in your information with your demographics.
Vince Ojeda:
You put in your credit card. You'll have a discount code that Melanie mentioned as well. We ship you the kit. You'll have the kit within two days. You can collect it yourself with a finger stick. It's about a 30 second to a one minute process to collect that sample with a finger stick.
Vince Ojeda:
Or you can choose the venopuncture or the serum sample collection, which we do give you a couple of options to find someone who will come out to your house or your office and draw your blood. They'll spin it down and they'll take it back to FedEx for you.
Vince Ojeda:
It's a little more expensive. The finger stick is by far our most popular option because it is a do -it -yourself. You can do it right there in the privacy of your home whenever you're ready to do it.
Vince Ojeda:
Everything's included in the kit. Everything you need is included in the kit, including the FedEx bag and shipping label to go back to us at the lab. So we ship you the sample. You collect your kit. You ship it back to us and we'll have a report to you within a couple of weeks.
Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. I love that. And I can't wait to do it for myself. And also for listeners, I just wanted to iterate. I've thought this myself. I've definitely seen this with feedback from listeners. Sometimes people, like they don't want to know.
Melanie Avalon:
Like I kind of see this with continuous glucose monitors. People love wearing continuous glucose monitors. On this show, we talk about it all the time because it gives you a real -time picture of how foods are affecting your blood sugar levels.
Melanie Avalon:
And I will hear people say, they just don't want to know. So what advice or guidance do you have for people who might be fearful? They're worried that it's going to show them that their favorite food is something they react to.
Melanie Avalon:
I will say that that guide I mentioned earlier on the website has a very nice, like it walks you through how to handle the results that you get and how to best tackle it in the way that works with you and your life.
Melanie Avalon:
And what are your negotiables and non -negotiables with these foods that you personally are open to excluding or not excluding? So I guess just what would you tell listeners about the cost benefit as far as learning information that maybe they don't want to hear, maybe they do?
Melanie Avalon:
What are your thoughts there?
Vince Ojeda:
I would say first, you have to realize that only you can decide on what's best for you. This test will empower you. It will give you the information that you can use as much or as little as you like to completely change your life.
Vince Ojeda:
And I'm a prime example of that. I would not be the person I am today without this test. We have testimonials from people all over the country, all walks of life, all income levels that write us thank you notes because, yeah, you know what?
Vince Ojeda:
You're going to have foods on your list that you love, that you enjoy, that you are going to miss for a few months. But you know what? It's worth it. If it were easy, everyone would do it. And taking care of your health and wellness isn't always easy.
Vince Ojeda:
Sometimes you have to do the hard things. This is a temporary change. If you really want to supercharge your life, what I call supercharge your life, then this is step one. A lot of people will go to different avenues of health and wellness.
Vince Ojeda:
They'll buy the magic pill, they'll do this supplement, they'll do that. And they don't know if it's going to work. At least we know that this has the science behind it. At least you know going into this that, okay.
Vince Ojeda:
For me, for example, eggs were a big one for me. And they were red, red. I mean, you can see the values on this report. My eggs were off the chart and so was gluten and so was cow's milk. And I had no idea.
Vince Ojeda:
So I had to eliminate those and you know what? It changed everything for me. So the cost benefit is there. And again, I say you have to decide what's best for you. We'll meet you halfway. We're going to get you the information.
Vince Ojeda:
We're going to get you the resources. We've even got a team of nutrition coaches who will coach you one on one on a tell a health about your report. We even provide access for you. If you take advantage of it, great.
Vince Ojeda:
If you don't, that's up to you too. But this will help. It has helped everyone who takes it seriously and applies the protocol. It helps people in ways I can't even, we don't have time to tell all the stories I want to tell.
Vince Ojeda:
you
Melanie Avalon:
Like I said at the beginning, I am just beyond thrilled about this resource. I cannot wait to do it myself. I can't wait for listeners to try it out and listeners. Definitely let us know if you do it.
Melanie Avalon:
We would love to hear your experience. Definitely right into the show. And we would love to share that on the show, people's experience, you know, doing this report and this test and getting the results and how it changes everything.
Melanie Avalon:
So again, Vince, thank you so much for everything that you're doing and, you know, helping create this test and access to it, which I just think is going to change so many lives. I mean, I'm sure it already is.
Melanie Avalon:
And yeah, again, so for listeners, victus88.com, coupon code MelanieAvalon to get a discount. I can't wait to do it myself and have you on the biohacking show and talk more about all the things. So just thank you so much for all that you're doing.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm just so grateful for everything.
Vince Ojeda:
Thank you so much, Melanie. I appreciate your time and everybody out there. Stay healthy, stay well, and let us know if you have any questions. You can always reach us through social media. We're very in touch with our customers, 100% response rate.
Melanie Avalon:
What are the links for people to follow you on social media and all the things?
Vince Ojeda:
Facebook, we are Victus88 on Instagram. We are Gut Health Test, all one word, Gut Health Test on Instagram. And our website, you can contact us through our contact page on the website. Or you can call us, call us at the lab.
Vince Ojeda:
Our phone numbers on the website, you know, we love hearing from customers. We love answering questions and getting people through those little last minute hurdles of, oh, but what about this and what about that?
Vince Ojeda:
So we're 100% in touch with our customers. When you call the lab, you don't get a phone menu, a live person answers the phone. We're very old fashioned that way. We wanna be in direct contact with all of our customers.
Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. I love it so much. Well, we'll put links again to all of that in the show notes at ifpodcast.com/episode347. Thank you so much, Vince. I can't wait to continue to connect on all of this.
Melanie Avalon:
And thank you for all you're doing. And we will talk soon in the future. Excellent. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intimation Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice.
Melanie Avalon:
And no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Melanie Avalon:
See you next week.
STUFF WE LIKE
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Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
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