Welcome to Episode 357 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:
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SHOW NOTES
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Listener Q&A: Nicole - How often should you vary your fasting window?
Listener Q&A: Candice - Peptides! What are they?
Listener Q&A: Niki - Red Light Devices
Listener Q&A: Lauri - If you could select your top 2-3 biohack items what would they be?
Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.
TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 357 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Bannals. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Vanessa Spina:
All right, well, hello everyone and welcome. I am your host today, Vanessa Spina, and I have a wonderful co -host joining us today, special guest, Scott Emmons. Many of you are probably familiar with him.
Vanessa Spina:
Scott is the COO of MDLogic Health. He is a biohacker and former bodybuilder, and he brings a wealth of knowledge and perspective. His previous experience as a biotech executive for over 20 years helped send him on his voyage to co -found MDLogic Health, a wellness company.
Vanessa Spina:
So welcome, Scott. It's great to have you back here on the Interim Ritten Fasting Podcast.
Scott Emmens:
My pleasure, Vanessa. It's always great to be at the IF podcast and I'm excited for our questions today. Thank you for having me.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I always appreciate when you can join and share a different perspective. And I think we have some wonderful, brilliant questions as always to get to. But how have you been doing?
Scott Emmens:
Life has been good. Right now, I am just wrapping up from Valentine's Day, which was fun with the wife. So that was good. I'm really thrilled. I think by the time folks are hearing this, we'll be well into our subscription model for Tone Protein.
Scott Emmens:
Got tremendous feedback initially during the pre -launch. And I would be remiss if I didn't just mention to folks, if you're listening to this now and you have not received either an automatic conversion to your 20% for life, if you bought during the pre -sale, if you did not sign up and receive an email or you're not automatically converted over, please reach out to MDLogic Customer Service.
Scott Emmens:
And Vanessa can put that email in the show notes. But at this point, the special is available. And you should be seeing that in your inbox. If you have not received that email from either MDLogic or Vanessa, again, please reach out to us at MDLogic and you will be rolled into that 20% for life program.
Scott Emmens:
So keep an eye out for that. Looking forward to that. I think the subscriptions run through the 1st of March, if I'm not mistaken, but more details will come via email. So just wanted to let that out there, but things are going great.
Scott Emmens:
We actually have two new Co -brands that are launching and MDLogic is working on a large new pipeline for plant proteins, some pre -workout drink, and specifically some skin, hair, and beauty products that we're pretty excited about.
Scott Emmens:
So lots of new developments happening in our world, and lots of things going on with my kids as always. So it's been an adventurous 2023 and we're off to a great start in 2024.
Vanessa Spina:
I'm so glad you brought up the launch of Tone Protein, which we launched together. It was so much fun and just so wonderful to see the support. I know a lot of members of this community and of the Optone Protein podcast community were really excited to finally have a super clean, super high quality whey protein isolate, the product that I wanted so badly to exist on the market, I had to go and create it myself.
Vanessa Spina:
And like you, I was making, you know, formulations in my kitchen. And now finally, I don't have to, I can just use, you know, Tone Protein and put a scoop in there. And now I'm actually doing two a day.
Vanessa Spina:
I was doing one protein shake for the longest time, but my fueling needs went up. My fueling needs were actually higher during pregnancy because they are higher, especially for protein, but they went up even more breastfeeding.
Vanessa Spina:
So I'm now up to two protein shakes a day. And I love using Tone Protein. I love that it is so high quality. It's so clean. It's one of the cleanest protein powders on the market. And the fact that it's also enhanced with leucine, I love that you can just initiate muscle protein synthesis in every serving.
Vanessa Spina:
So that enhancement with the leucine really makes a difference to get four grams of leucine in every serving. And I'm just so thrilled with how the launch has gone. I'm so excited to make new flavors.
Vanessa Spina:
As you know, I've been begging you to make cookies and cream from the beginning.
Scott Emmens:
Cookies and Cream is, I know, first on the list.
Vanessa Spina:
Yes, unflavored. I've been getting a lot of requests actually for unflavored and just for all the flavors. So I'm really excited to expand on that. And I'm also excited about the collagen you were just talking about was we're going to come out with.
Vanessa Spina:
We're going to be coming out with a collagen. And that's something that I've always been really interested in. But again, hit that same issue where I just wasn't happy with the products that were on the market.
Vanessa Spina:
So have to go and create my own. That's been the same thing with all the products. The tone device, the red light therapy, create the products that you want to see in the world that you selfishly want to use yourself but that you think other people may enjoy as well.
Vanessa Spina:
So I'm excited about the collagen too.
Scott Emmens:
you know, with the whey protein unflavored, that's the first I'm hearing that you were getting lots of requests for that. So that actually is pretty simple to make, right? Because flavor is complex and it's got to have the right blends and certain things to make the flavor pop.
Scott Emmens:
So in a completely unflavored way, we'd probably not be able to put the leucine in that, but we do, we are launching leucine capsules. So the reason for that is if you do an unflavored whey with leucine, it can be relatively bitter.
Scott Emmens:
Leucine is a very bitter amino acid, which is why it took so long for us to get your formula just right with that perfect blend of flavors. But the unflavored, I think we can get that out pretty quickly.
Scott Emmens:
So we can work on that as we're working on cookies and cream in the background. And we have done extensive research. I don't know how much I've told you about this, Vanessa, but we've been researching about seven different collagen testing them, looking at the clinical data.
Scott Emmens:
So we have three bovine collagen we've narrowed it down to. And I don't think you want to do marine, but we've also been doing a deep dive into marine collagen, particularly testing them for mercury and heavy metals, because I know that's a big issue for folks.
Scott Emmens:
The other thing we've looked into is the molecular weight and the different kinds of patented peptides. So low molecular weight collagen seems to be really good for absorption and for gut health, whereas the higher molecular weight is better on taste, texture, and better for your skin tone.
Scott Emmens:
So we've done a deep dive on what the differences are in these collagen, what the peptides are, why one might be better than the other. And again, as we've mentioned many times, we've also looked extensively at the five nutrients that are called cofactors, which we initially added to our embryologic collagen.
Scott Emmens:
The issue is copper is a highly reactive molecule, but it's also essential along with zinc and vitamin C. Those three are really key cofactors, out which you just can't make collagen in your body. So you kind of don't really, you digest the collagen, but you're not really getting and creating collagen from it without those cofactors.
Scott Emmens:
So we're going to take that out of that, just make pure collagen and then have the collagen cofactors as these separate nutrients that has all of the five cofactors you need and all of the right ratios to maximize your collagen creation from the collagen you're taking.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I'm excited because when we launch the college and we can do some educational content around college. And I've been learning so much from you about those cofactors. And I think a lot of people don't know that about college.
Vanessa Spina:
And there's just in general, I think with everything from protein to college in, there is a lot of maybe misinformation out there or, you know, as we, we discovered one website that we were looking at that had some really interesting facts.
Vanessa Spina:
Quote unquote fact that were all completely made up. There's just a lot to learn about these things. And I've really enjoyed doing those educational podcasts that we did about how to select a high -quality whey protein.
Vanessa Spina:
And I'm looking forward to doing one about how to select high -quality collagen, also how to supplement with it. Because there's even collagen being marketed as protein supplements, which is one of the worst offenders that I've seen.
Vanessa Spina:
Because people don't know and people are so trusting. I know I'm like that myself. I see something advertised in a certain way. I'm like, oh, so this must be a great protein. It looks like it's got a nice chocolate flavor or whatever.
Vanessa Spina:
And if you don't know, you will fall for that. And you realize that you're basically taking collagen and thinking that it's going to help you initiate muscle protein synthesis. One is the furthest thing from that because it's not even a complete protein.
Vanessa Spina:
So there's so much to learn about quality of protein, protein rankings in terms of their score, their bioavailability, and just to understand and help people wade through the marketing noise. Because there is so much noise and it's easy to be flashy and grab people's attention.
Vanessa Spina:
And then you really do have to put a little bit more work into it to understand some of these concepts. Because I used to be one of those people. I watched Netflix documentaries and I thought that being vegan was optimal.
Vanessa Spina:
I thought that there was enough protein in cucumbers when people would ask me about protein. I was like, cucumbers, there's in vegan propaganda and I saw it in marketing and believed it until I went back to school to study biochem.
Vanessa Spina:
And then I realized that I was being sold a lot of stuff that was really not accurate at all.
Scott Emmens:
Yeah, we'll do a real deep dive on proteins and collagen as a protein specifically, the cofactors. That'll be a great episode. And I think that's what I love most is helping people way through all of the marketing pieces and for lack of a better word, the propaganda or just the company trying to push a narrative.
Scott Emmens:
So I really enjoy pulling the veil back on that and letting people understand exactly what you're getting. And I'm looking forward to that one.
Vanessa Spina:
What did it say they were telling people that if they had whey protein, was it that it was acidic, that there was something
Scott Emmens:
Basically, we say that all of the additional things beyond the essential amino acids were wasted in calories in terms of fat, which is completely
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, that's what it was. And they had some charts that looked very scientific, but sometimes even when there's charts on there, it's not legit at all.
Scott Emmens:
Yeah, it looked very legit. But then when you went to the source, that actually didn't say anything like that. In fact, I don't think there even was a source. It was their own creation. Not to say that that product doesn't have some benefits, but the way that they couched it was like, oh yeah, if you take away your, it's bad.
Scott Emmens:
No, that was very, we'll call it inaccurate.
Vanessa Spina:
I get it because I hear from people constantly who have the same questions. And I'm like, where is this information coming from? And then you find out, wow, it's a company that's putting this out. And I'm not sure why they're doing that.
Vanessa Spina:
But yeah, it's great to be able to learn. I'm learning so much myself and have been learning so much myself over the years and also to be able to share. And I just love that you have so much experience, especially with supplementation.
Vanessa Spina:
Like I've been learning so much since we started working on tone protein. And it's been great. Well, speaking of learning, I'd love to jump into some questions. What do you think?
Scott Emmens:
Let's jump into some questions. I'm excited. All right.
Vanessa Spina:
So the first question comes to us from Nicole on Facebook if you'd like to start off with that one.
Scott Emmens:
Absolutely. So this question is from Nicole. Nicole, thank you for your question. And it is, how often should you vary your fasting window? Is it necessary to go longer than 18 hours to get the benefits?
Scott Emmens:
I'm super active and do two different forms of exercise in the morning and definitely need food after. I range from 14 to 18 hours typically. So Vanessa, what do you think?
Vanessa Spina:
So I love this question, Nicole. I think it definitely is a great idea to modify or vary your fasting window, but always go back to what are you optimizing for in the moment? What goals are you optimizing for?
Vanessa Spina:
Because I can switch up my goals three, four times a year, depending on what season it is or what it is that I'm currently optimizing for. And you may have a few goals when it comes to your health, but there's definitely one that's sort of the prime goal that that's the one you want to, you know, figure out how to optimize, you know, your fasting window, your protein intake, all these things.
Vanessa Spina:
So I would say that the main benefits that come from intermittent fasting are typically caloric restriction, which you, you know, you get sort of more effortlessly doing it in an intermittent fasting window.
Vanessa Spina:
You also get a lot of benefits on your metabolic health. You get digestive rest. So, you know, I think that you can still get a lot of those benefits. Even if you don't go longer than 18 hours, you know, I think then it's sort of a different category.
Vanessa Spina:
It's like, well, if you're trying to get a topology, I would put that in a different category where I would say, well, you want to do maybe a fast once a year, 36 to 72 hours, like a water fast or supervised fast, something like that, because that's going to really crank up the topology.
Vanessa Spina:
Or if your goal is topology, you want to make sure you're getting in that resistance training and exercise in and maybe doing fasted exercise. You get mitochondrial biogenesis. So it kind of just depends on what you're looking for.
Vanessa Spina:
I find most people come to intermittent fasting because they want to recompose their bodies, cut some fat, do it effortlessly. And also because they want to get some of the longevity and health spend benefits.
Vanessa Spina:
So I don't think you need to go to 18 hours or more. I think anywhere 14, you said you range between 14 and 18. Typically, you can definitely be able to do your fasted workout. It sounds like you do two different forms of exercise in the morning fasted.
Vanessa Spina:
And then you want to break your fast right after. And that's the best time to break your fast, especially if you're having, you know, a meal that has an optimal amount of protein in it. So you can help your body repair and restore itself.
Vanessa Spina:
And I definitely would not be pushing to try and get those, you know, higher numbers or to be pushing when you've just worked out fasted. And you feel that you need to refuel, to nourish your body and provide those building blocks to help your muscle repair and recover as well.
Vanessa Spina:
So I think that at the end of the day, you got to find the window that works the best for you, because that's going to be what's sustainable. A 68 is more than enough to get a lot of the benefits, the main benefits of intermittent fasting.
Vanessa Spina:
What do you think Scott?
Scott Emmens:
Yeah, I agree, especially I'd be curious to know the two different forms. I'm sort of thinking that it's an aerobic and maybe some weight training, but either way, if you're doing two different forms of exercise in the morning and you don't have a high protein meal and or a meal with either half a shake or full shake of protein, you're going to do a lot of, you know, catapultation of your muscle because your body is going to be starving.
Scott Emmens:
It's going to have just worked out in these two different forms, particularly if you're doing weight resistance training, your body is going to be, you know, really starving for those proteins and nutrients.
Scott Emmens:
And I think you said it really well. Like that's the perfect time to break your fast is immediately post some intense exercise, which I would say two different forms of exercise in the morning is. And I think going past 18 hours again, if your goal is to stay really physically fit, which obviously if you're working out every morning, two different forms, I would, I would assume that's the goal.
Scott Emmens:
I wouldn't go beyond the 18 hours. I think that's more than enough and sufficient. And I would definitely eat an hour or sooner after the exercise for sure. And of course, make sure it includes both a hydration and a good bit of high quality protein between 20 and 30 grams, whether that's, you know, eggs, which is a great source of protein, some sort of meat and, and or a high quality shake, I eat some, I think would be the way to go.
Vanessa Spina:
love the plug on tone. I can't find myself, I can't help but mentioning it all the time, because it's what I use every day. And I don't know a way protein that's, that's better. So I love to have a protein shake with tone protein right after working out other times, you know, if I'm not feeling that so much, then, you know, make a different kind of high protein meal.
Vanessa Spina:
I tend to recommend 30 to 35 grams of protein at each meal. And especially if you're doing intermittent fasting, you want to make sure that you're hitting your protein target in that shorter window. So I like to go a little bit more on, on the protein just to make sure that you get enough for muscle protein synthesis.
Vanessa Spina:
And especially if you are plant based, you know, you definitely more closer to 35 grams at a meal. But I know that wasn't specifically about your question. So let's move on to the next one. Thank you for the question, Nicole.
Vanessa Spina:
So Candice from Facebook says, peptides, what are they? Why are people using them? Do they work? And by work, I mean for improving health, weight loss, etc. I've seen them in powder form. And my dad is getting injections of several different formulas from a doctor's office that practices regenerative medicine.
Vanessa Spina:
Are injections better? Are there any studies? Also, thank you for the deep dive on semi -gluteid on the, I believe that was the December 4th podcast. That was absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much, Candice.
Vanessa Spina:
I love getting to do that deep dive. It was so much fun to talk about how semi -gluteid works in the body and the half -life and everything. So I'm really glad you enjoyed it. What do you think, Scott?
Scott Emmens:
So peptides are highly effective in both powder and injection forms, but they're kind of two different things and they're used for two different ways. I think peptides are going to continue to become more and more popular in both supplemental powdered forms, capsule forms, and injection forms.
Scott Emmens:
So you have pharmaceutical grade peptides like semi -gluteide, which is OZEPIC or bogovie. There's a number of those peptides in the market. There are other peptides for things like eczema and you'll see those advertised and those are either injectable or pharmaceutical grade peptides.
Scott Emmens:
Then there's this sort of gray area injectable peptides, which things like BP157, which you really should have a physician that understands what each of these new peptides are, that they have a really good source for those peptides.
Scott Emmens:
Because when you're injecting a peptide into your body, A, you want to make sure it's really pure and you really want to make sure it's a physician that's worked with peptides extensively, taking some training on them.
Scott Emmens:
There's a lot of evidence for a number of different peptides. The one that's probably most popular is the BP157, which is often used for generation of limbs or arthritic pain. They work really well. I've had a couple of those injections for some knee and shoulder issues.
Scott Emmens:
When I say a couple, I mean two, just because they're very expensive and they're very effective. They work really well. I'm a big fan of both the injectable and the oral. From an oral peptide, you'd be surprised at some of the things that are peptides that you hear every day.
Scott Emmens:
Creatine, for example, that's a peptide. A peptide is nothing more than a chain of amino acids that are linked together in a certain form. That form of amino acids tells your body to do something. It's like an instruction panel or the building block of something really important in your body.
Scott Emmens:
When it's already in that peptide form, it spares your body from having to take all of the amino acids and create it by itself, along with all the cofactors needed. It's almost a biohacking way to get these peptides that your body creates on their own in a powder form.
Scott Emmens:
Another peptide I love is carnicine. That peptide is an amino acid. I think it's two different amino acids. It works really well to help pull in electrolytes into your cells. It has some antioxidant properties for things like helping prevent issues with your eyes.
Scott Emmens:
It also is great for performance enhancement in terms of athletes. A lot of athletes will use carnicine as one of their peptides of choice. Then collagen, those collagen peptides, because what they've done is taken that native, fibular collagen, which is what creates your skin, your ligaments.
Scott Emmens:
They've broken that down into an amino acid, but not quite down to the amino acid level, but they've broken it down into peptides. That makes it much more digestible. That's why we talk about those cofactors, because those collagen peptides then have to be rebuilt into your body to create the collagen itself.
Scott Emmens:
That's what those cofactors come into. Creatine, carnicine, and collagen peptides are three peptides you hear about all the time. They're all very effective that I use all the time.
Vanessa Spina:
Thank you for covering those. I actually am fascinated by peptides and I recently had a doctor who actually works with a lot of celebrities. He's out of New York, Dr. Neil Palvin, on the Opsaline Protein Podcast.
Vanessa Spina:
That's all we talked about for an hour. Every single peptide, all the injectables, what they're for, and it's amazing the different applications that they have because that really does seem to be where we are going and trending is towards personalized medicine with people having the ability to analyze their genetics, find out if they have these single nucleotide polymorphisms or SNPs or different mutations.
Vanessa Spina:
There's all these different kinds of mutations that people can have that turn out to really affect how the body really functions overall. It's really amazing that you can correct some of those things with these peptides, these injectables.
Vanessa Spina:
Obviously, the Wacovi, Osempic ones are getting a lot of attention. I think that is bringing just more attention in general to peptides and the fact that they're all these injectables. If you want to hear the A to Z on all those injectable peptides and all the different ones, you covered a lot of the key ones there.
Vanessa Spina:
Look out for that episode with Dr. Neil Palvin that's going to be coming out early in 2024. It could be up as the airing of this, but it'll be around this time. Thank you for covering all of that.
Scott Emmens:
Absolutely. So we've got another question here from Nikki on red light devices. Hi, Melanie and Vanessa. Vanessa, I just preordered your red light device and face mask. I'm so excited to try it. I am too, actually.
Scott Emmens:
I am also trying to use red light to encourage hair growth. Oh, we just talked about that. But it is difficult to target my scalp with the regular devices because it can't face your scalp and at the same time, it faces the rest of your body.
Scott Emmens:
Are you planning on making a helmet device for hair growth anytime soon? If not, are there any you would recommend? I know iris stores are popular, but I wouldn't purchase it without your silver approval.
Scott Emmens:
Thanks for all that you both do. Nikki, let me include the exo, Nikki.
Vanessa Spina:
Hi, Nikki. It's so nice to hear from you. I really love this question. And first of all, thank you so much for supporting my work and what I'm doing in creating wellness products. So I'm so excited that you pre -ordered the new Tonelux Crystal Red Light Therapy Mask.
Vanessa Spina:
And I really can't wait to hear what you think of it. I absolutely love it because I was finding that I like to do my red light therapy on my face in the morning. And I'm with Luca in the morning and lately, especially the last six months.
Vanessa Spina:
He needs me to be focused on him. Like he will grab my face, turn it towards him. Like I cannot look any other direction than him. But he doesn't mind when I put the mask on because we can still read books and do stickers and, you know, we can, you know, do activities together.
Vanessa Spina:
And it's not that long. I usually do a 15 minute session. I can do anywhere from 10, 15, 20, 25 minutes. And I've been noticing some differences with my sunspots already on my face. So I'm really excited for that and to see the differences.
Vanessa Spina:
And the thing with red light therapy is you really have to be consistent at the beginning. I would say, especially the first eight to 12 weeks. And I know you're going to be able to speak to this a little bit from your personal experience, Scott.
Vanessa Spina:
But after you get the results, you can do maybe one session a week or something like that. So you just have to be really consistent at the beginning and you'll get some amazing benefits. And then after that, you just maintain your benefits and your results after that.
Vanessa Spina:
So I'm super excited for you. You to try it. Now, when it comes to encouraging hair growth, this is one of the coolest things about red light therapy because when Russian scientists were first studying red light, they were doing tests on mice to see if lasers would be safe for humans.
Vanessa Spina:
So a lot of the times you look up research on red light, it's photo biomodulation. A lot of the research comes from these laser studies. And one of the first things they saw is that it was regrowing hair on the mice.
Vanessa Spina:
And that's when they started to go, Oh, maybe there's actually some benefits to lasers and red light and photo biomodulation, as opposed to being concerned about the safety of them. So I think hair growth is a huge potential area with the face.
Vanessa Spina:
You know, it's a collagen, a lasso and production, youthfulness, sunspots, you know, can make you look younger. And it can do also systemic benefits from the self remitocondria. But when it comes to hair growth, I think that that can be really, really helpful.
Vanessa Spina:
So my personal recommendation would not be to use the face mask on your scalp. I would use a panel. And the reason for that is the panels are much more powerful in terms of their power density and irradiance.
Vanessa Spina:
It's much stronger. The amount of jewels that you get in terms of the, you know, square centimeters or scranges is much higher with the panels. So I would, if I was doing this for myself, I'd put the panel on the side of the screen.
Vanessa Spina:
And I would put a panel, a powerful panel and prop it up on the floor. And then I would lay down in front of it so that the top of my head would be facing the panel. If that makes sense. So I would definitely do that.
Vanessa Spina:
So when it comes to the face masks and the helmets, the power density and irradiance is much lower than the panels because it's right on your skin. So for safety and, you know, just because you're getting exposure right close to your skin in general, they're not as powerful as the panels can be.
Vanessa Spina:
So I would do that. I also think it would be probably pretty comfortable to just lay on the floor and do your red light therapy. What's been your experience, Scott, because I know, I mean, you were showing me before we started recording your progress.
Vanessa Spina:
It's amazing to see. So I know you've been really doing it consistently and you've been doing some different things. So what would you recommend?
Scott Emmens:
Yeah, so I have a whole protocol that I was following when I was like, so I'm 52, right? So when I was in my 40s, I was like, really, I got to keep this hair. And I was very diligent about it. This was just before red light.
Scott Emmens:
So it was more like Rogaine and a little bit of myconeedling biotin collagen. And that kind of kept the hair I had, but it really wasn't helping grow there. So then I discovered red light and I was using that for a long time.
Scott Emmens:
At first, I was doing about 15 minutes, probably five to six times a week. And I definitely saw a difference that was like around 45. Then I kind of said, eh, you know, the heck with it. And I let it go.
Scott Emmens:
And it just, my hair just wasn't like gone. I'm like, wait a second, I wasn't prepared for this. Over the last three months, I have really begun to use both a panel and a pad. And the pad is just because it's easier and simple.
Scott Emmens:
I don't always have the panel, but the way that I do my panel, I don't, not really much of a lay down kind of guy. So I put it on, I've got a big leg massage chair and I put your panel like on a really firm camera, a mounted, like a tripod mounted camera.
Scott Emmens:
And then I sit on the barcalauner. It's like a, not a barcalauner, but it's like a massage chair and it hovers just about an inch over my head. And then I'll just sit and watch a TV show or listen to a podcast or read a book.
Scott Emmens:
And the 15 minutes goes by super fast. But I also, I think for my age and for how kind of far my hair had gone, I needed to include some other things. So my routine consists of a micro needling in the morning, a light one, then an aggressive micro needling along with a blend of keratin and rogaine.
Scott Emmens:
So it's pure 100% keratin. I said keratin, keratin, which is what your hair is actually really made from. And then biotin, I take it because your hair stacks those little biotin amino acids on top of each other.
Scott Emmens:
So that's more for like the hair growth and length. The keratin is what the hair kind of is actually made out of. It's the primary ingredient in the hair. And then once the micro needling and the keratin are on, I will do the red light therapy for about 15 minutes while that's not a recommendation.
Scott Emmens:
This is my protocol. I also do take biotin and I take collagen along with cofactors. And the final thing I've added in recently, and again, I'm not recommending this, but it's just my protocol. Check with your doctor, make sure this is safe.
Scott Emmens:
But I put a couple of drops of 1% methylene blue on my head before the red light. There's a lot of data to suggest that methylene blue particularly ingested, which is not even, I don't need to think legal.
Scott Emmens:
So I'd never do that. But a topic I put it on along with those other things I do, then do the red light therapy, either the pad, which I'll use downstairs if I'm like watching TV downstairs or in my office where I have the panel set up.
Scott Emmens:
I'll do 15 minutes, probably three to five times a week, depending on how busy my week is. And I was literally just showing Vanessa, I'm like, Hey, I really think this protocol is working. What do you think?
Scott Emmens:
And I pulled my little headphones down and she's like, actually, I see a big difference from the first time we met. No, I don't have a lot of hair, but it is definitely gone from totally bald to like, you know, there's some actual hair there.
Scott Emmens:
So I'm feeling like another three months of this protocol is going to work great. And there is a plethora of evidence on red light, both for hair growth, eye support, skin tone, mitochondrial support.
Scott Emmens:
So look into that red light research. There's just, there's plenty of it. And I think, you know, if you're not doing some sort of red light, you're missing out on a tremendous easy opportunity that's relatively cost light because you can keep the device for months, if not years.
Vanessa Spina:
I definitely see a big difference and I'm a painfully honest person. So like if you were showing me and I didn't see anything, I'd be like, sorry, no. So yeah, I definitely see a big difference, which is really cool because like I remember when we were talking about this when I first told you that I was thinking about coming out with a mask.
Vanessa Spina:
Maybe eight months ago or something like that in the spring and you were yeah, you're showing me that you're wanting to, you know, have some red light therapy benefits there and it's so cool because it's just endless.
Vanessa Spina:
The amount of things that red light does is endless. Like we almost should have like a shower because I keep saying I think in 10 years everyone's going to have one like a hairdryer, like a panel in their bathroom.
Vanessa Spina:
But you almost have like a shower booth with red light and have it go all over your entire body for maybe like five minutes after you are done your shower and you can also warm up.
Scott Emmens:
I'm sorry, they used to have, not red light, but they used to have infrared lights in a lot of bathrooms with a timer. Do you remember those?
Vanessa Spina:
don't, but it sounds like similar. And I've seen in Prague, there's some solariums, the sunbeds that are like marketing themselves as like sun plus collagen. So you can go lay down in tanning bed, and you can get super damaging tanning rays.
Vanessa Spina:
And you can also get some red light while you're there, which I'm not. Yeah. But I would do it if they could just do like the red light, that would be kind of cool. Yeah, I'm sure there's some like, sort of a bond type of, you know, character out there who's got like a red light shower thing that I'm talking about already, or some athlete pro athletes, they're the ones who, you know, really got into this because they're always looking for that edge.
Vanessa Spina:
And, and they've all been doing the red light, you know, for years. And now it's just sort of becoming like, I wouldn't say it's mainstream, but it's in the biohacking community. It's like, if you don't have a red light, like, who are you?
Scott Emmens:
Yeah, you have you'd have a red light. You can't even call yourself a bio hacker. But you're right on a pro athlete. I was talking to someone who we were engaged in some discussions with. And they had mentioned there's a red light like spas and saunas where they either do a sauna of infrared plus red light or just, you know, red light and near infrared light.
Scott Emmens:
And I think that's important that I think yours is both red light and near infrared light, right? I think it's got both the 660 and then the 830 nanometers. I'm not sure what your nanometers are, but basically you want a red light combined with a near infrared light.
Scott Emmens:
So just so people are clear that we call it red light, but it's really both the red light and the near infrared light. And if half your bulb looks like they're not working, that's just because it's near infrared light and you can't see it.
Scott Emmens:
That one penetrates a little deeper. They both serve slightly different purposes, but combined, they work really well. But he was saying that there's like a two week wait to get into these red light, you know, saunas.
Scott Emmens:
I was like, holy moly. And that's at LA. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa Spina:
That's a big business. Yeah, it's really interesting too because I have one wavelength in the sapphire, I put four wavelengths that I found to be the most associated with benefits in the research. And one of them is orange light.
Vanessa Spina:
And I did the same thing with the mask because it's actually so close to red that it's considered like photovol modulation with red light, but it's called orange. And if you look at the light, sometimes the sapphire, if you're using it in the dark, sometimes you'll see it's a bit orangey and it's same.
Vanessa Spina:
It's just one of the wavelengths, but it has a lot of benefits too. And actually all the wavelengths have different benefits, which is really interesting. But red, fascinatingly activates this chromavore on the electron transport chain in the mitochondria.
Vanessa Spina:
So even when you're doing a hair treatment or you're doing a treatment for muscle repair and growth, or you're doing a treatment for like stubborn body fat or whatever it is you're doing it for, you're getting systemic benefits because we have mitochondria floating around in the blood that self -humidicondria.
Vanessa Spina:
So it just amazes me. And it's like, it's not, whoa, right? Like there's an insane amount of research showing this stuff. Well, I first started finding out about it. I was getting so excited because I'm like, there's so many who products out there.
Vanessa Spina:
There's like these mats with frequencies and there's crystals and there's all this stuff. And I love a crystal. Like crystals are cool, but to have something that has like tens of thousands of scientific studies, clinical studies behind it showing, my favorite one is actually the one in Denmark, where they had women who were infertile to the point where they were like completely resistant to everything, like IVF, like assisted fertility, everything.
Vanessa Spina:
And they used this thing called the gigalaser. And it's like this crazy powerful machine that they put over women's abdomens. And over half of the participants went on to successfully become pregnant and deliver healthy babies.
Vanessa Spina:
And one of them was 50. And they were blasting their ovaries with, like it's the most mitochondrial dense area in a women's body. They're blasting their ovaries with these jewels. And it's so exciting to see research like that.
Vanessa Spina:
And Japan and Denmark have been putting a lot of funding towards red light therapy research because they have really low fertility rates. And it's like for someone to see research like that. And maybe they've been going on a fertility journey and having fertility struggles, one of the most painful things that couples deal with, to see that like someone at 50 is using red light to become pregnant and have a healthy baby is just amazing.
Vanessa Spina:
So that's one of my favorite studies on it, but there's so much research behind it.
Scott Emmens:
That's why I love red light. And now do you feel it like relatively quickly the research is there? Absolutely.
Vanessa Spina:
So our last question for today comes to us from Laurie on Facebook and she says, if you could select your top three biohack items, what would they be? It gets overwhelming when listening to podcasts and wanting to try everything.
Vanessa Spina:
I love this question and I completely agree. I feel the same Laurie. So thank you so much for sharing that. What are your top three biohack items,
Scott Emmens:
Okay, so from three to one, I'll use items and then I'm going to include one practice, even though it says items and I'm not sure if items being supplements, so I'm going to probably leave supplements out.
Scott Emmens:
Maybe I'll mention one, but from an item standpoint, number three would probably be some type of heart variability monitor. I really feel strongly that if you're getting ill or not an optimal performance for a workout, like if you see your heart variability drop precipitously in an evening, you probably might want to skip your workout for that day.
Scott Emmens:
You're likely heading for an injury or an illness, so your body is telling you it needs a rest. Heart rate variability has been demonstrated time and time again to kind of be a leading indicator before you're even physically aware of either an illness or an injury that's upcoming, and it's so easy to track.
Scott Emmens:
You could do it with an oar ring, an apple watch, you can do it if you want the most accurate form. They have chest ones that go across your chest that will measure that, so that would be my number three.
Scott Emmens:
My number two biohacking item would probably be my cups, my cupping methods. I just got into this recently and I have found it incredibly powerful in combination with Redlight too because I was having just kind of like old man problems, like cramping in my thighs and cramping in my traps, and I was hydrated and had plenty of potassium and I was working out and like, what's going on here?
Scott Emmens:
What I started to discover was you have this layer of skin between your muscle and your skin. It's called fascia, and it's this really, really thick material that helps keep your muscle structure in place, but what can happen over time if you're an athlete particularly and you're always working out, you can get the scar tissue or layers of tissue between the fascia and the muscle where the fascia is either gripping muscle or scarring up or vice versa.
Scott Emmens:
I don't know all of the science behind it because at little, I just started this a couple of months ago, but I have had like again, this on my left leg, a cramp in my left leg that no matter how much I used those little guns to vibrate it out, it would just hurt more the next day.
Scott Emmens:
I started using these cups on my lats, my lower back and my thigh, and it was like within three days, I felt an unbelievable difference. The cramps were gone, the muscle felt stronger. It just was just like kind of a miracle maker.
Scott Emmens:
I was really surprised. These were my initial cups were just like little rubber cups with a suction on them that you kind of pumped and I could not believe how powerful they were. So now I've upgraded to like the more sophisticated ones and I'm a big fan of those cups.
Scott Emmens:
I think if you've got any kind of muscle aches or pains, that's a must have. And then I could not say number one is because of its versatility, its effect and this, it's got to be red light for sure.
Scott Emmens:
And curious to learn more about this orange light because I hadn't done that. I have heard about purple light. So I'm dying to know more about this orange light when we get done. But red light would be my number one.
Scott Emmens:
And then my item that I would mention in terms of the simple thing you could do is either cold plunge or ice bath. Use your way into it. Make sure that you have someone there. Make sure you check with your position that your heart and your body are ready for.
Scott Emmens:
If you're in the northeast or in a cold country like Prague, for example, you can use the water coming out of your shower and start that way. That's going to be like about 50 degrees, 55 coming out of your shower.
Scott Emmens:
And trust me, that's going to feel cold enough for your first exposure. The first time I ever got an ice bath, it was about 48 degrees and I lasted about 30 seconds. That's okay. And you do want to submerge all the way into a tub.
Scott Emmens:
If you can put your head under, that's great. But again, you can pass out and you have to be careful. So you want someone with you when you're doing this and you definitely want to be checked out by a physician.
Scott Emmens:
But cold immersion or ice baths for just a few minutes every other day, three to five minutes every other day between 55 and 45 degrees, it's going to get the job done. I've never been more ache -free in my joints and body, in my body than I was when I was regularly doing that.
Scott Emmens:
I just started doing it again because I was preparing for the polar bear plunge in January, which you may see some pictures of me on Facebook or on the IndieLogic page, running into the ocean like a maniac in January.
Scott Emmens:
But I figured I'd better get prepared for that. But that has got me re -hooked on it, as Vanessa will tell you, it is a very addictive but super powerful process. So those are my three items and my one free easy to do.
Vanessa Spina:
I love all of those. So in terms of items, like I think more of bio hacks, but in terms of items, I have to say, the number one for me is the tone device. That's why I created it, because I love getting biofeedback and keto is one of the most powerful bio hacks in terms of things you can do to reverse aging.
Vanessa Spina:
I know reverse aging is a kind of a controversial term, but it's really amazing how you can actually reprogram your genetics through epigenetics. Ketone's signal to your body to either unravel or not unravel certain genes and express those genes.
Vanessa Spina:
It's really amazing how they act as histone deacetylase inhibitors. There's so many things that keto does for us. Ketone's actually signal to our mitochondria to uncouple. And that helps in so many different ways to help support our mitochondria because we are uncoupling heat production from energy production and we have more mitochondria.
Vanessa Spina:
And so the biogenesis of mitochondria, it does so many things for the body in terms of health span. So it's the number one bio hack. And so I like to check my ketones to see how I'm doing in terms of getting ketosis.
Vanessa Spina:
And that's why I created the tone because I so tired of pricking my finger using those expensive test strips. And it's just really inconvenient. Like if you want to check your ketones and you're like on the go or you're at someone's house, like you don't just pull out like this kid and like prick your finger and all that.
Vanessa Spina:
But with the tone, you don't have to buy those expensive test strips. You just invest in one device and you can test an unlimited amount of times. And the other drawback with the blood is that you're only seeing a picture of what's circulating in that moment.
Vanessa Spina:
You're not seeing what's been produced and what's been used. So that was always my issue with that as well. And I don't like urine strip testing. I find that to be the most unreliable because once you basically keto adapt, you're not excreting these additional ketones anymore.
Vanessa Spina:
But the breath is not like the urine. The breath is showing you a byproduct of utilization. So about 20% of the ketones that your body produces from your stored body fat goes out in the form of BHB and acetoacetate.
Vanessa Spina:
And during that conversion, 20% of that then spontaneously decarboxylates or degrades into acetone. And acetone is so tiny that it goes out through your lungs. So when you're testing your breath, using a breath ketone analyzer, you're actually reading how many carbons are, those carbons are coming from your fat, from your stored fat.
Vanessa Spina:
So you're getting biofeedback on the level of ketosis you're at and you can also look at some interesting data between your blood and your breath and the ratios and correlation there and it'll show you how much you're using.
Vanessa Spina:
And so I find it fascinating. It's like my number one product for sure you use it every single day, no matter what. Second would definitely be red light therapy panels. And that's why I created the tone luxe line of red light therapy panels because red light is just so amazing as we've been gushing and gushing about.
Vanessa Spina:
And I would say the third is probably tone protein. It's my three favorite things that I use every day. But what better biohack is there than, recomposing your body, getting effortless, sort of recomposition, burning more fat.
Vanessa Spina:
There's so many research studies showing that people eating more calories than a control group when those extra calories are coming from protein, especially weight protein, you're burning more fat. Like it's such an amazing biohack to me if you wanna recompose your body.
Vanessa Spina:
And one of the best things you can do for your body is basically to get rid of excess, unneeded body fat and improve your metabolic health. And then gain muscle and become stronger and have stronger bones.
Vanessa Spina:
So definitely those are my three in terms of items. And I concur with you on the free one, ice baths. I cannot wait to do ice baths in sauna again. Once, you know, I'm back in the groove of doing that stuff because in the winter, it's cold enough in Prague that I just put bathwater, cold bathwater.
Vanessa Spina:
And it gets to between 10 and 15 Celsius, which is the equivalent of what you need. I'm not sure what it is in Fahrenheit, but what you need to be basically in an ice bath. And my hack, my free hack is that when you immerse yourself, and like you said, take all the precautions, check with your doctor, make sure you don't have a heart condition, make sure you're supervised, all those things that if you do find it's appropriate for you and not contraindicated, and you're sort of easing yourself into it, I like to get in there all the way as quickly as possible to my chin because we have brown fat that's around our collarbone.
Vanessa Spina:
And this thing called the turnover effect happens where it switches on our brown fat. And so within 30 to 60 seconds, I'm warm in the water, as long as I don't move much. Then when you get out again, it's freezing.
Vanessa Spina:
It's freezing when you get in, it's freezing when you get up. But once you're in and you're into your chin, you actually feel warm, you feel fine. And it's easy to stay in there and actually overdo it.
Vanessa Spina:
Dr. Susan Soberg, who was on the Huberman podcast, she did some studies showing what is the minimum effective dose, and she found it was 11 minutes a week. So you don't even need to do that much. Like if you're doing three or four sessions a week, it's only a few minutes.
Vanessa Spina:
And I find that way easier than a cold shower. Like cold shower is not, I find that much harder to do than to just sort of like put my arms on both side of the tub and get in and then just stay until here.
Vanessa Spina:
But that is one of the most powerful things I think you can do for your body as well is become cold adapted. And you'll notice it's extremely addictive. You feel amazing after, but you need less and less clothes when you go outside in the cold, which is like, you know, I'm starting to become that weirdo in the shorts.
Vanessa Spina:
And all my friends talk about it now.
Scott Emmens:
It's 30 degrees and you're out there like we're in shorts.
Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, because between the thermic effective protein and the cold adaptation, I'm a warm person now. I was always that cold person. But once you really rev up your metabolism with, you know, good focus on protein, and you're also becoming cold adapted, like you start to become like really, really comfortable all the time.
Vanessa Spina:
And when you're always a person that's cold, it sucks. Like I just love being the person that I way rather be warm all the time. So it's a great combination. And yeah, that's my number one, just like the free hack.
Vanessa Spina:
But again, as Scott said, you know, make sure it's it's safe for you, your supervisor doing it with a friend or, you know, you made sure that it's it's fine for your heart and all that because it is it is intense, like it's really intense hack.
Vanessa Spina:
And you want to not be doing all the things all the time over functioning, over biohacking, I think you can get into a situation just like with red light, you don't want too little, you don't want too much, you got to find that that sweet spot.
Vanessa Spina:
So it was so much fun to talk about favorite biohacks with these God, I love doing this episode. And we had so many great questions. I'm super excited to record the next one with you, which are also co hosting with me.
Vanessa Spina:
And we have some more phenomenal questions in there. So thank you all so much for sending in these questions. And can't wait to chat with you on the next one, Scott.
Scott Emmens:
That sounds wonderful. Can't wait to do it. And thank you so much for bringing up the brown fat. I forgot about that. Not only that, you know, you're going to lose weight because that you're burning so many calories to stay warm.
Scott Emmens:
Like I never had less love handles than I did when I'm, you know, doing the ice bath three to four times a week. And I think you're right. Don't overdo it three to four times a week, three minutes time is good.
Scott Emmens:
I one time went 12 minutes at an hypothermia for like two and a half hours. So you can't overdo it. But it's been so much fun. Thank you for having me on. I hope we answered all the questions to the audience satisfaction.
Scott Emmens:
And I'm looking forward to the next one.
Vanessa Spina:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Scott. And thank you everyone for your fantastic questions. Be sure to follow me on Instagram at Ketogenic Girl and Scott, what is the MD logic handle for Instagram and yours?
Scott Emmens:
So MDLogic is a MDLogic Health is the Instagram. My personal one is at longevity protocol. So you can reach me there. You can get me there if you'd like. If you're interested in partnering in any way or you just have some questions or just wanna follow me, you can do that.
Scott Emmens:
And you can always reach me or MDLogic through. I think it's, I wanna say contact at MDLogicHealth.com. That's our email. But if you just go to our site, www.mdlogichealth.com, all our information is there including tone protein.
Vanessa Spina:
Excellent. Well, thanks so much and catch you on the next one.
Scott Emmens:
Thanks Vanessa.
Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intimation Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
STUFF WE LIKE
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
LINKS
BUY:
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Vanessa's Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight
The Tone Device Breath Ketone Analyzer
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com
Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com
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