Episode 397: Special Guest: Barry Conrad, Real World Fasting, Resistance Training, Quality Food Choices, Protein Needs, Australian Food Vs American Food, And More!
Welcome to Episode 397 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.
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SHOW NOTES
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Instagram - Twitter - Facebook - TikTok - YouTube - Website
Adjusting fasting for a crazy work schedule
Working out with resistance training
The magic of a good diet
Protein needs
Australian food vs American food
Sugar content in our foods
Connecting with the podcast
Allergies, bitter, and spicy foods
Whole foods
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #167 - Mark Schatzker
Wine and other alcohols
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TRANSCRIPT
(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.)
Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 397 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
Hi, friends. Welcome back to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm Melanie Avalon, and I am here today with a very special guest who is actually a repeat guest on the show. That's how you know he is somebody very special. I am so excited. I'm here with Barry Conrad.
Melanie Avalon:
Barry was first on the show for episode 332, and we decided it was high time he come back and share a little bit more about his intermittent fasting journey and experiences for so many reasons that we will get into today.
Melanie Avalon:
Actually, namely, one of the inspirations was Barry was recently in The Heights at the Sydney Opera House in Australia, which is absolutely mind blowing and incredible and amazing. And I wish I could have gone, but we were actually having conversations while he was in the show about how he adapts his fasting, does or does not adapt his fasting to that crazy lifestyle, and decided we should have him back and talk about all the things.
Melanie Avalon:
So Barry, thank you so much for gracing our show again.
Barry Conrad:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so stoked to be back. How's it going? How are you feeling?
Melanie Avalon:
I'm feeling good. Like I said, I'll put a link in the show notes to your first episode, where we talked a little bit about your backstory and your history because you've done so many things. You landed a role on Fox's Power Rangers, Ninja Storm.
Melanie Avalon:
Your first feature film was the box office hit the sapphires. Your theater debut was Broadway's Violet, followed by a streak of roles which included Oh my goodness, beautiful, the Carole King musical.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm about to I have not seen that I'm about to see it in a few months here. Do you like that musical?
Barry Conrad:
You're gonna love it so special. You'll know so many of the songs. It's nostalgic.
Melanie Avalon:
I don't know that I, this is so embarrassing. I'm sure I know her music, but I don't know that I know her music. I don't know that it's her music. Does that make sense? Like I saw Jersey Boys and I was like, oh, okay, that's their songs.
Melanie Avalon:
Is it gonna be that situation?
Barry Conrad:
It'll be the same sort of thing because she's a songwriter. So so many of these songs will be like, oh, well, I know that song, but I didn't know it's.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, kind of like how Taylor Swift writes for other people as well.
Barry Conrad:
had to segue back to Taylor Swift. Melanie is like the biggest Taylor Swift fan, which I'm sure you all know. Anytime, they do know.
Melanie Avalon:
And you also had a role in Neighbors, which that was the, I feel like I know this is not in your bio, but wasn't that like the longest running soap opera in Australia? Did I make that up?
Barry Conrad:
You actually write, yeah, the longest-running TV series ever in Australia drama, yeah, so it's very cool.
Melanie Avalon:
Crazy, crazy. And so, and you're also an ambassador for Panasonic Hawaii, are you okay? I think we talked about that last time. So we can definitely circle back to that as well. But yeah, coming back to the Sydney Opera House.
Melanie Avalon:
So first of all, congratulations. How was the show, the experience?
Barry Conrad:
It was incredible, Melanie, and I actually listen to that tried to wrote Melanie into coming over to Australia, which is like, I only travel for a day. It's like, it's too far.
Melanie Avalon:
I almost came for like one night, me and my sister were like, we're going, we've looked at flights. I told you we looked at flights.
Barry Conrad:
It was incredible. It was so enriching. It was so vibrant. It was a show that I could be present in every single moment of it. This is the first time that I actually felt like I could really enjoy a role and be present in it.
Barry Conrad:
Usually in the past, I've been worried about this or that or whatnot, and this just felt like a chef's kiss. It was just so wonderful. The stories special, the people are special, so talented. It's like a multi-generational story.
Barry Conrad:
Everyone can find themselves in the characters. It's set in New York, my favorite city in the world. I just had a wonderful time, genuinely. It was so amazing. It's only a week since we've closed, so I still feel that processing time of bittersweet sadness, happy, grateful, all the things.
Melanie Avalon:
It's so amazing. It actually is amazing. And I swear I know what it is. It is in the heights not into the woods. I love the song breathe.
Barry Conrad:
I have to tell, okay, I'm shouting out to Olivia DeKalb, and I'll get her to listen to this. She played Nina, my character's love interest, and she sounded incredible. Check her out on Spotify as well.
Barry Conrad:
She's a singer-songwriter.
Melanie Avalon:
Does she have that? Can I listen to her singing that anywhere? Is it online anywhere?
Barry Conrad:
I'm sure it's somewhere or we could try to find it for you. Like there's an archival that was recorded of the show, but she is amazing. So props to Olivia DeKalb.
Melanie Avalon:
It's so amazing. I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. Like I said, while we were talking during it, not to go straight into intermittent fasting, but what was your dietary approach with fasting leading up to the show and then did you adjust it for the show?
Barry Conrad:
I'm not too sure what I said last time, but still what stands for me is I do generally 20 hours a day on average a week. So 20 hours a day of fasting. Leading up to the show, I was actually really strict and disciplined.
Barry Conrad:
I wanted to be match fit, you know, more than ever, because whenever I'm preparing for a role as an actor, I want to be the best that I can be. And this guy's like a 24 year old guy, like, you know, young vivacious doing his thing.
Barry Conrad:
So I wanted to like be right in that zone. So I really tightened up my diet a little bit more. High protein cut back on the ultra processed food. And I was actually working on something else that I was doing a shoot for.
Barry Conrad:
So I was in prime condition. But by the time the show came around, because we're doing so much choreography. I don't know if it's a combination of the curry slash the eight shows a week, six days a week schedule, but I was able to maybe, you know, bend the rules a little bit more for myself.
Barry Conrad:
Like I was able to eat a little bit more, indulge a little bit more and not be as strict with my fasting. So to give you guys context, on Saturdays and Sundays, we have two shows for both of those days.
Barry Conrad:
So in the middle of the day, sometimes I'll have like three meals, like I have like, you know, I have like chicken teriyaki and rice, and I have like fries, I have, you know, maybe like a club sandwich and people are like, how are you eating all this food and sort of staying in shape?
Barry Conrad:
But I don't know, Melanie, you tell me, like, I think is it, do you think it's the output of the energy or do you think it's the fasting protected nature of fasting? What do you think?
Melanie Avalon:
Yes. Okay. So many thoughts. And I knew you were going to flip it on me, but wait. So when you quick clarification. So when you're having the three meals in between shows, that was like your meals, right?
Melanie Avalon:
And then you didn't eat again until.
Barry Conrad:
the next day.
Melanie Avalon:
Next day in general it was always like a daytime meal situation and then and then having a show after.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, so we'd have a show like a matinee at like 2, 2 30 p.m. We'd eat at like 4, 4 30. And that's when I'd have these like three meals. But I mean, okay, Australian portions are not American portions.
Barry Conrad:
They're not as big. They're not as big. So I was, we needed the energy. So I was just like, I was inhaling the food, but then the next day I'd do the same thing, but just the Saturday and the Sunday I'd do that.
Barry Conrad:
But it seemed to be fine and stay in really good, really good shape. So I don't know. What do you think?
Melanie Avalon:
Well, I love this question and you actually asked it to me. Like, okay, so here's the thing, Barry sincerely asked me this question. We were having a call and he's like, people, he's like, I eat all this food.
Melanie Avalon:
And people are like, Oh, you can't be, you know, eating all that food and blah, blah, blah. Like what is happening here? Two things to approach. One, I would love to discuss the societal disbelief that people have surrounding this.
Melanie Avalon:
And then two, what is actually happening? And for me, as far as like what is actually happening? So I do think there is this magic. When you do fasting and you're going that period for a long time without eating, and then you do have all this massive food at one time, you have better insulin sensitivity, you process the food better.
Melanie Avalon:
You're not constantly in a fat storing state by eating constantly throughout the day and messing with cravings and all the things. I really do think there's some magic here, which displays itself by people doing it.
Melanie Avalon:
But people don't believe it. You were saying people were not disbelieving of you, that you could eat this much. And do they think you were secretly eating otherwise?
Barry Conrad:
I think people look at that, they just look at the volume of the food quote unquote volume.
Melanie Avalon:
Or did you tell them you were fasting otherwise?
Barry Conrad:
I do tell them I said I do intermittent fasting and people nod maybe in confusion like not knowing what that means and then some people nod like knowing what that means but they still don't quite get because I work out three days a week resistance training and that's it for like 30 minutes a day that's it and then I just fast and people don't they were really just skeptical about how is that possible.
Barry Conrad:
You know.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes cause if people will put pictures in the show notes, but if you look at Barry, he looks really great. He looks amazing.
Barry Conrad:
Thanks, Mel. As do you.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was the other thing. So the working out. So you're not spending, you said 30 minutes, a couple times a week.
Barry Conrad:
And I just know, like, gym bros, if any of them listen to this podcast, they'll be like, whatever, bro, like, you're juicing up, you're doing something. But I promise you, it's 30, 35 minutes, that's max.
Barry Conrad:
And that's all I do. But it's just intense. And I just do my thing, and I get out. And I don't know how that works necessarily. But it does for me. So I don't know if that's genetics, or if it's the fasting that's sort of being contributed towards that.
Melanie Avalon:
Is it resistance training?
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, resistance training only. And then especially for this show, like prior to the show, I usually we do like resistance training, maybe do a little bit of cardio on the days in between. But that would look like maybe the Stairmaster for 10 minutes max, or a walk by Bondi Beach, which is an iconic beach in Sydney.
Barry Conrad:
Please come visit us. And that's it. It's not anything crazy.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, you're getting so much cardio during the show, presumably, like so much. Here's a question. Before you started doing fasting, what was your gym approach with resistance training and did it manifest differently?
Barry Conrad:
was still not long. It was always that amount of time. It was never like an hour. Some guys spent a couple hours in the gym, like, what are you doing for a couple hours? That's a lot of time. It was always shorter and more intense, rather than a longer period of time and hitting all these different muscle groups.
Barry Conrad:
I do a full body situation every time and that's it.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, okay. Oh, that's interesting. So you don't alternate full body like to failure.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, I go to failure as much as I can. And that's it. I just touch on, like, I'll do chest, shoulders, bias, tries, glutes, hammies, calves, and that's it. And I know a lot of people would think that's not enough.
Barry Conrad:
But at the moment, it's working for me. I know I can keep challenging myself. But Brock Ashby, actually, who was on my show at Bento at BC, he's a personal trainer, and he encouraged me to lift a bit heavier.
Barry Conrad:
So I started actually implementing more of that. And maybe that's helped. I'm not too sure.
Melanie Avalon:
When did you start?
Barry Conrad:
I started lifting a little bit heavier probably earlier this year, but I really just do think maybe it's a combination of that, but a lot of it is the way I eat. As you know, Mal, food is so important on nutrition.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm having flashbacks to the old paradigm I used to exist in where I thought I had to like, you know, go to the gym and I mean, we're talking about going to the gym, but like, like I had to like, that it was all in the gym was where the body was made.
Melanie Avalon:
And that was the lever. And when I first changed my diet, which wasn't with intermittent fasting, and it wasn't even with eating like whole foods, it was switching to low carb, that's when I realized, oh, changing what you eat actually has a massive effect on so many things.
Melanie Avalon:
And it's a little bit magical. And then I just started implementing and integrating more things from there. Like you said, I just think there's so much power in the food choices, the food choices, and then also the fasting as well.
Melanie Avalon:
We also talked to you and I about protein, because people have this, people have this fear or this belief that you need to be eating protein constantly throughout the day in order to support or grow muscle.
Melanie Avalon:
And well, I think we can both speak to that because you're not you are not correct. You're not eating protein constantly throughout the day. And you are are you building muscle? Did you build muscle without eating protein constantly throughout the day?
Barry Conrad:
I don't eat throughout the day, a, like I eat in my one meal, quote unquote, one meal a day or one window of food, but I don't eat throughout the day at all. I don't stress about as soon as I put the last weight down, I'm running to my protein shake.
Barry Conrad:
I don't do that too. I don't subscribe to that myth that you need to do that because I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, it's within a 24 hour period, you can consume that protein for it to be effective for protein synthesis and stuff like that.
Barry Conrad:
So I don't stress about that, but yeah, I don't eat throughout the day at all and I don't freak out about it.
Melanie Avalon:
And during that time that you've followed that approach, have you built muscle?
Barry Conrad:
Absolutely. And I also think of the body re-composition. I feel like I'm in better shape now than even like 15, 20 years ago. It's great. It's crazy. I just don't understand how that works. But I definitely the only thing that has changed between now and then is most significantly is the fasting and the nutrition.
Barry Conrad:
That's it.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, what I love about this so much is people will say that you need to be eating protein constantly to build muscle. But if we can have examples where people are not doing that and they are building muscle, that means mechanistically, it is possible to build muscle without eating constantly throughout the day, because I build muscle without eating constantly throughout the day protein.
Melanie Avalon:
Actually, Vanessa, I was talking with her earlier today, she actually just interviewed, she interviewed the guy who, I don't know if you saw this or if you, I don't know if this episode has aired yet either on this show.
Melanie Avalon:
They recently have done more research on the whole idea about how long it takes or how much basically the timeline of protein intake and when you can build muscle or not. And they thought it, there was like this window that you had to have protein in and that protein also, after eating protein, it was only anabolic for a certain amount of time.
Melanie Avalon:
And now they don't, they've done research and realized that you can eat a massive amount of protein and it'll still be anabolic for a long time. So kind of flies in the face of what we've thought about.
Melanie Avalon:
So people think that you can't get all your protein at once because the rest will just be wasted. And apparently that's not true.
Barry Conrad:
correct me if I'm wrong because I've heard previously that you could only, for example, like only 30 grams of protein per meal. Is that is that change? Yeah.
Melanie Avalon:
That's been the idea for so long that you can only synthesize and use 30 grams of protein at a meal. And then everything beyond that is like not used for building muscle. And what they've realized, and Vanessa could speak better to this, but what they've realized now is that there's not an end, like it does keep going.
Melanie Avalon:
And one of the reasons that that may be is that the studies, like they would only look for a certain amount of time after eating protein. So they never, they never looked. Like they never looked to see if muscle synthesis continued, which is a big gaping hole in the whole theory.
Barry Conrad:
That's massive. And that's good for me. Because I eat, for example, I will have 500 grams of ground beef at a time, or 1 kilogram of chicken wings at a time. And that's a lot of animal protein at once.
Barry Conrad:
And then I'll also have, for example, a cup or two of Greek yogurt with a scoop of whey protein in there. So that's a lot of protein in one meal. For most people, most people probably get to do. And it's good to know that not all that's going to waste at 30 grams.
Melanie Avalon:
like scientifically, we're not finding that. And like I said, we just see it, like we see you doing it, me doing it, like people are doing it. So clearly, it's, you know, it's working. And did you say, wait, the meals that you eat, are they are they provided by the theater or they like
Barry Conrad:
There's a cafe inside the Sydney Opera House. Sydney Opera House is one of the most iconic gems of Australia. It's incredible. But inside there's this cafe, and they do pretty good food there. It's not provideable, but it's cheaper because it's for the people performing that.
Barry Conrad:
They're not massive. They're not airplane meal size, but they're not my size. As Melanie knows, I love to eat big portions. So three will suffice. Yeah, like you. So one's not enough for me.
Melanie Avalon:
I love it. I just want to come see the show. I know it's done, but I would just like, it would have been a great time, a great time.
Barry Conrad:
There'll be other things, I believe it, there'll be other things. You get to all be performing in the States and you get to come to one of the shows. And the US. Yeah, exactly.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes. Do a tour. Do a tour. Here's a question. Speaking of the U.S., how often have you come to the U.S. and done stuff here?
Barry Conrad:
Well, the last time I was there actually, I did reach out to Melanie and she was like, sorry, I'm good, I'm busy, I'm probably doing a Taylor Swift thing.
Melanie Avalon:
No, you didn't. Wait, wait, no, you didn't.
Barry Conrad:
No, the last time I was there, no, I did make, I did get in touch with her, but- You have never- No. Remember, I was in New York. I was in New York at one point, but then it was just like, I didn't give you a notice.
Barry Conrad:
I just messaged you when I was there and I was like, what?
Melanie Avalon:
Did you ask if I wanted to like meet up in New York? I don't remember this. I have no memory of this. I remember you being in New York. We're gonna plan something next time you're here.
Barry Conrad:
But we're definitely, the next time I'm there, we'll definitely meet up and we'll put something on social media for you to see. Eat all the protein. Eat all the protein.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes. Oh, which I want to, I have questions about that. We're going to like dinner eating and desserts and savory desserts. We're going to talk about that. But I do have a question for that. So when you're in the US and you eat the food here, do you feel any different in your body from eating the food here versus Australia?
Barry Conrad:
180%.
Melanie Avalon:
It's not a leading question.
Barry Conrad:
How do you how do you feel a I love America so much and I can't wait to be living between there and here be I will say that yes there are places that the food makes me feel good but a lot of the places I don't feel as good like maybe it's the produce in terms the animal protein side of things is a bit different but you have to hunt you have to find good spots good quality you don't want to just eat you know I'm not gonna say names but just fast food places and stuff like that obviously it goes without saying but what about you do you find like you have to really source do you look at websites and go okay this is what they use or like you just sort of get to the restaurant and go hmm what can I have that I know will not upset my gut situation.
Melanie Avalon:
This is such a good question. Before that, one quick question. Do you have fast food in Australia? Do you have McDonald's? What? No, I'm sorry. I just Australia is like really far away. I don't know.
Barry Conrad:
Like I said, do we like, you know, have koalas as pets next? Is that the day?
Melanie Avalon:
Are there kangaroos in your backyard? There are.
Barry Conrad:
Right. It's so weird. Because when I lived in South Africa, people used to ask like, do you did you have to like hunt for your food? I'm like, yeah. And they believe me. Like, no, we haven't done we have all the things.
Melanie Avalon:
there are kangaroos like hopping around, right? I'm not making that up.
Barry Conrad:
Not in Sydney, like very in the countryside, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Melanie Avalon:
Aren't they violent or aggressive?
Barry Conrad:
They can be, so you probably don't want to get out of the car and try to do a waltz with the kangaroo. You want to keep it moving.
Melanie Avalon:
Do you eat them? Are they on the menu regularly in Australia? Because I like kangaroo. Tastes good.
Barry Conrad:
I actually will say I've never seen kangaroo in a restaurant on a restaurant menu, but I have but it's definitely in our supermarket like in terms of like and the meat is really lean the proteins really good so it's great you just have to cook it not too long so it's not.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, my mind is being blown. Okay, because I I have it here. So I've had it. I found ground kangaroo at the grocery store. So I've had that and then there's a restaurant here, my one of my favorite restaurants in Atlanta, they have kangaroo as an appetizer, and it's really good.
Melanie Avalon:
So I always I thought like kangaroo steaks were like a thing in Australia. And I'm kind of sad now to learn that they're not a thing.
Barry Conrad:
Maybe i just haven't found it but it's not typically now it's fairly.
Melanie Avalon:
It's like the leanest red. It's so cool. It's so cool. It's like super lean red meat.
Barry Conrad:
That's it for Melanie Evelyn.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, stock up on it. But to answer your question, I feel like I have to go to a certain type of restaurant here in the US, which is basically like steakhouses or French restaurants or Italian restaurants that have, it sounds so pretentious, that are not like, that are nice.
Melanie Avalon:
And if they're nice, like literally $3 signs, if they're nice, if they're nice, then I can go in and I know I can typically find something on the menu, like a protein that I like, and then I can have the, you know, I can ask for requests to, you know, adjust it for me, and I'll be good.
Melanie Avalon:
And I basically can handle or tackle most restaurants like that and eat it there and walk out feeling okay. Like if I don't make modifications, though, it's a little bit suspect. And yeah, because there's just so many additives and seed oils and all the things.
Barry Conrad:
I can't wait to be over there and actually get a restaurant with you and just to see you in action as you order. So can I please like basically I want it like prepared like this and not nothing.
Melanie Avalon:
I don't know if we talked about this last time, but I have been a server in a restaurant for a long time and fine dining. And so I feel like I understand what they have to go through to do that. So I appreciate it.
Melanie Avalon:
I have gratitude. I ask very nicely. I want to empower people. I mean, you're the customer. You're paying them. They are making money off of you. You have the right to adjust the meal so that you enjoy it the most and feel good.
Barry Conrad:
Oh, trust me, I adjust as well in a way that's polite, obviously, but some people feel uncomfortable with that. To circle back to what you said about fast food, I will actually say, do you know Thomas DeLauer?
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I've had him on the show on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast.
Barry Conrad:
I saw something on maybe Instagram where you talked about differences in fast food or something compared like America compared to Europe and stuff like that.
Melanie Avalon:
Is it different?
Barry Conrad:
It really is like from Australia. It's I don't know why like but the McDonald's here versus say a McDonald's I've had in LA or whatever it is different it's I mean doesn't mean it doesn't taste better there but the way I feel is completely different.
Melanie Avalon:
It's really horrible here. It's really bad. I remember I used to, because my international traveling experience mostly revolves around Germany, because they have family there, I would always have the Harrybo gummy bears.
Melanie Avalon:
And they're a completely different Harrybo. Do you know that brand? Do they have that in Australia? I don't think so. Guess not. Sad day. I think people here will know what it is. It's a gummy line. It started with gummy bears, but now there's all these gummies.
Melanie Avalon:
It's a thing. Big in Germany, but big here, too. And the ingredients are so different. In Germany, they use natural things to color it. Here, it's all these random colorings. And then here, we use corn syrup.
Melanie Avalon:
And there, I don't know what they use, but it's not probably... It's a completely different formula there versus here. It's upsetting. A lot of people here will say they go to Europe, and they can eat the grains there, and they don't have the reactions to bread and things like that.
Barry Conrad:
other than restaurants in America, I've actually never gone out and bought a loaf of bread there because I just...
Melanie Avalon:
in America?
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, it really is different. Over here in Australia, the sourdough bread is so good. Generally, the bread's pretty good over here. I don't know what it is in the water over there. Also, I'm not generalizing.
Barry Conrad:
Not everyone has bad bread in the United States of America, but it does feel different from my past experiences so far. That probably will change.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, here's a fun fact for you. Are you ready? I learned this this week. So in Ireland, Subway bread does not qualify as bread. What? Yeah. Because of the sugar content, because it's full of sugar, it was too high for the country's legal requirements for the food to be called bread.
Melanie Avalon:
So instead, in Ireland, Subway bread is classified as confectionaries.
Barry Conrad:
That's wild. That's crazy.
Melanie Avalon:
That's telling is what that is. It's telling.
Barry Conrad:
It's scary because a lot of parents for example would be like no let's have a sandwich like this is healthy and it's not because of them. You know turning a blind that's that's because we're told it's fine to have bread but no breads the same.
Melanie Avalon:
It's like full of sugar. That's crazy. It's crazy. It blows my mind, and I think about this more often than I should, but breakfast cereals here in the US, it blows my mind that this is what is taught to us as the thing to start children off with for the day for a healthy start.
Melanie Avalon:
And you look at all the breakfast cereals, and it's like ADA approved, like American Heart Association, good for your cholesterol, healthy multivitamins, minerals, eat this now. And it's literally sugar.
Melanie Avalon:
They get sugar down their throat.
Barry Conrad:
It wasn't that spirited by a brand. I'm not going to say the whole number K, you know, substitute K.
Melanie Avalon:
Vanessa and I talked about this on a recent episode, which probably hasn't aired yet, but we talked about how—actually, by the time this comes out, it will have aired—but we talked about how basically Kellogg's—that's the name.
Melanie Avalon:
There's a whole history to it—but basically, Kellogg himself, the reason he created it was because he wanted—it was a moral thing. He wanted to stop men's sexual desires, and he thought that this bland food would stop their libido, which is kind of telling.
Melanie Avalon:
So that's fun fact one. Fun fact two—so many things. So have you heard the phrase, breakfast is the most important meal of the day?
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, who hasn't? That's what we're told, right?
Melanie Avalon:
Guess who came up with that?
Barry Conrad:
Mr. Kellogg?
Melanie Avalon:
Kellogg's, it was a marketing thing. We were told this as health mantra of life and literally it was marketing. It's so upsetting. It's really upsetting.
Barry Conrad:
It's upsetting and also just the power of marketing, like that's amazing for what they wanted to achieve because they achieved it, but it's just like, wow, like everyone lives their life by that because of that.
Melanie Avalon:
In Australia, do they have these breakfast cereals marketed heavily to kids?
Barry Conrad:
Cocoa pops can your cornflakes every like it's the whole yeah, it's everywhere. Of course. Yeah, it's really upsetting. So
Melanie Avalon:
Here we are.
Barry Conrad:
When I go to the States and I'm staying at a hotel, for example, and I typically don't have like breakfast, meaning like early in the morning. But when I do, I'll definitely do it at the hotel because it's like it's the buffet and stuff like that.
Barry Conrad:
And when I do that, I'll just smash the eggs, try to find because the bacon over there isn't typically great. There's usually biscuits and gravy and stuff like that. So I'll just try to go poached eggs, tomato, mushrooms and stuff like that.
Melanie Avalon:
Here's a question. So when you are traveling, do you, because I'm kind of jealous of you because I'm so intense with my intermittent fasting, I have to do it, like I have my system, I do it the same way all the time.
Melanie Avalon:
Even if I'm traveling, are you more fluid? Do you adjust? How do you do traveling?
Barry Conrad:
It depends what the purpose of the travel is for. If the travel is for a work trip, I will typically try to stick to my protocol. But at the same time, if I'm in town and people want to take me out somewhere, I'm not going to be religious about it and say, sorry, the clock is still at 16.49.
Barry Conrad:
But if it's like a vacation, I'm going to not be crazy. I'm not going to go to the extreme, but I'll definitely enjoy myself. Because I know that I believe it's what you do most of the time. And I feel like that is protective.
Barry Conrad:
I don't know how that works, but I do think that your body sort of thanks you for doing what you do most of the time. So when I get back home, I'll just jump strip back in and I'm the type of person that can sort of just go cold turkey, meaning like I can just switch really easily.
Barry Conrad:
I can go into a couple of weeks of just like not fasting if I wanted to and then just jump strip back into fasting and not... I think it's just practice. At this point.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm the same way, not that I do always do the fasting, but I'm the same way with the cold turkey, like extremist. I can just, with things in life, I can just go all in really intensely either way. I don't have to like build up to it and I don't do good with moderation.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, do you remember the first time you consciously decided to try intermittent fasting?
Barry Conrad:
I've actually been trying to wreck my brain for this answer because I think I don't know, Mel, I've been trying to figure I know it's been a good five, six years now since I've done it. But I don't know the first exact moment like it wasn't like a penny dropped in something I don't know.
Barry Conrad:
But I did. I do know that I started with 19 hours. I started there. And you clocked it on the clock. I did. I feel like I started listening to your podcast when you were doing it with Jen Stevens. And I was like, what the heck is this thing?
Barry Conrad:
What? I just I was because I'm always fascinated with
Melanie Avalon:
How did you find our podcast?
Barry Conrad:
I don't know, I just, I was looking for health and fitness topics on Spotify, and I think I was at the tail end of doing a show at the time, I was like, oh, what can I listen to? And that came up, and it was really interesting.
Barry Conrad:
I was like, oh, listen to this. And then, to be honest, your show, this very show that I'm on right now, was a major catalyst for me really sticking to it. And I'm not just saying that just to say it, like it really was a pivotal, because the stories were great, the science was great.
Barry Conrad:
I loved the banter between you two. It was just really informative, really relatable, and not too sciency, but also had science enough to back it up, so it wasn't just like some cult or something, you know?
Barry Conrad:
So it was great.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, it makes me so happy.
Barry Conrad:
So it's actually quite actually, to be honest, Mel, it's surreal to be on your podcast. I know that we've known each other for a while now, but I want to say thank you because this podcast actually has been a major contributor towards me sticking to what I'm doing and has taught me so much about fasting.
Barry Conrad:
So thank you.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing that. And that just, it makes me, I'm so honored and happy. And I love hearing that because it's really nice to know that, because I feel like with this show, I mean, it's like, I know it's been a long time.
Melanie Avalon:
And when we're recording podcasts, it's just you and the other person who can't even see because I refuse to do video. And so you don't see like all the people who may be listening and how it may be affecting them.
Melanie Avalon:
So thank you for sharing that. Oh my goodness. That's crazy.
Barry Conrad:
It is crazy, actually.
Melanie Avalon:
think we talked about this last time. I don't know how we even connected originally. I think you were maybe sharing stuff about the show on Instagram.
Barry Conrad:
Instagram yeah that's gonna be me but i definitely hundred percent no in twenty nineteen i was listening to the show that's my first time listening to it.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, crazy pre pandemic era. That's crazy. Oh, that's that's a question. When the pandemic happened did, because I know for a lot of people, well, people reacted all different ways. But I know a lot of people actually, it actually helped their health journey because they like, you know, were able to actually like tackle things.
Melanie Avalon:
How did the pandemic affect you when it came to your health and dietary choices?
Barry Conrad:
It was it goes without saying that it was really rough. I mean, for me, personally, it was really tough.
Melanie Avalon:
especially in your industry, because your industry like shut down.
Barry Conrad:
The industry shut down here in Australia, and I'm sure in the states as well, you know, so it's like, how am I going to get through this, you know, it was really stressful. I did probably turn a bit more to a little bit more ultra processed food at the same time, I still did not deviate from my fasting protocol.
Barry Conrad:
And I do believe that was protective. And I still kept up on workouts. I am a pretty self motivating person. So I, in the face of stress would rather say I'm not going to take this so like double down on what my whys are like what my goals are.
Barry Conrad:
So even though it was tough, I stuck to generally what I'm doing now. But I probably did allow a bit more wine, a little bit more comfort food, quote unquote, you know, during that time. It's very isolating.
Barry Conrad:
What about you? What how did how did you handle that time?
Melanie Avalon:
So I was really grateful that my job, everything I was doing was all, it was like podcasting and it was stuff that didn't rely actually backtracking. It actually was a really beautiful moment for my life because I was still, I mentioned earlier doing restaurant jobs.
Melanie Avalon:
So I was still doing a restaurant job when the pandemic happened. And I had gotten to a point with the podcasting and everything that I didn't actually need to be doing the restaurant job financially, but it felt safe because I was clocking in somewhere and I got a paycheck.
Melanie Avalon:
That felt safe. And it was really scary to think about doing everything on my own as an entrepreneur, as a podcaster. That was terrifying. And so I knew for a long time that I should quit my restaurant job and just focus 100% on this type of stuff.
Melanie Avalon:
And I honestly, the pandemic happened and then I lost the restaurant job because they cut people. It was actually a beautiful thing for me because I'm really curious about how long I would have stayed in that.
Melanie Avalon:
And I'm completely like, people need the jobs that they have and I was in it for a reason and I support people doing all of that. But for me, at that time in my life, I didn't need to be there anymore, but I was scared to let go of the security blanket that it gave me.
Melanie Avalon:
And so the pandemic happened, I lost it. And then I realized, oh, I actually don't need it financially and I can be doing these other things. And so it was actually really good. It's amazing. Yeah. It was actually really, really helpful for me for committing finally, because it's scary to be...
Melanie Avalon:
I mean, you know, it's scary to be living on your own, not clocking in somewhere.
Barry Conrad:
hundred percent relate to that and it is tough because it's like what's going to happen but you actually yeah you know the magic actually the magic happens more when you actually make that choice to leave and i'm sure that you can attest to that like things open up more it just happens
Melanie Avalon:
It's so true. I remember literally when I lived in LA, my hairdresser told me one of her client, her other clients was like a bartender, and then I'm probably like an actor or something. But she told me like, once she quit her job and like committed 100% to this other route, that's when it really took off.
Melanie Avalon:
And I saw that for me as well. And everybody has their own path. But for me, that's what was really, really helpful.
Barry Conrad:
Does it affect your fasting protocol and or your nutrition or not really?
Melanie Avalon:
No, fasting and the way I eat has been something that has provided, like it makes me feel really good doing it and it's provided a really nice anchor and stability. And so I didn't, I didn't change it during the pandemic and I'm really grateful for that.
Melanie Avalon:
I remember actually, do you know my David Sinclair story about this by chance? Do you know David Sinclair? Of course, yeah. So he was one of my first guests on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast and he's a legend.
Melanie Avalon:
He kind of discovered resveratrol, he didn't discover it, but he popularized resveratrol, oh, which we have to circle back to wine, but that's one of the anti-aging compounds in wine. And he had a book called Lifespan, which is one of my favorite books ever.
Melanie Avalon:
And so I had him on the show, on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast early on, like when it was barely anything, barely any guests. And I just emailed him to his Harvard address and I was like, do you want to come on my show?
Melanie Avalon:
And he was like, sure. And that blew my mind beyond belief. But when the pandemic happened, so I don't know if you remember, do you remember when the pandemic happened and there were all these podcasts about the pandemic?
Melanie Avalon:
Do you remember that?
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, it was like it's very sensational as it was like a thing was a moment.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, like all the podcasts are about it like everywhere. And so I was like, I feel like I need to do an episode on the pandemic because everybody's doing an episode on the pandemic. And this was before it got political, like you could actually do an episode and not feel weird.
Melanie Avalon:
So I reached out to David and I was like, do you want to come back on for an episode on the pandemic? And he was like, sure. Just like mind blowing. And again, that was before it was political. So he came on.
Melanie Avalon:
But the point of the story is I remember one of the things he said on that episode was that this could be an opportunity. Like he was talking about like health and lifespan and everything. And he was saying that this pandemic situation, like this is an opportunity for people to actually come out healthier on the flip side.
Melanie Avalon:
Like you have choices you can make now. And you could use this time of being away from society and your normal thing and all the stuff and actually, you know, work on your diet, go to the gym and like come out even stronger.
Melanie Avalon:
And I'm paraphrasing, of course. But I thought that that was so inspiring. I feel like that's the way it was for me.
Barry Conrad:
I actually really relate to that as well, like creatively, I actually got so much out of it as well, like, writing and things like that. So I get that, like, you know, it was a good like, what other choice did you have, but to, okay, the option is either to bow down and just, you know, be on the bathroom floor, or what, what can I do in this isolation sort of thing, right?
Melanie Avalon:
Well, yeah, because to that point, and I think one of the problems with modern society is because of the way food has been created to satisfy, like literally instigate all of our feel good neurotransmitters in our brain, it was so easy, and I understand why, to turn to these processed foods and everything as comfort and nourishing, because that's literally how it's designed.
Melanie Avalon:
It's designed to make you feel good. So for a lot of people, I think that became, you know, there was the whole, like, what do they call it? Like the pandemic, because there's like the freshman 15. There was like the COVID 15.
Melanie Avalon:
I don't know. I can see how there was different paths for different people. I'm really glad we're on the flip side.
Barry Conrad:
I'm so glad travel to travel as well if you can go anywhere.
Melanie Avalon:
I know. And it was crazy in Australia, right? I feel like you guys were like the most intense.
Barry Conrad:
We had like, I don't know what it was like there, but five kilometer radius. So basically you could only walk within five kilometers, like to the park or. Yeah. We had like a 5k radius that we could explore from our houses.
Barry Conrad:
We kind of go beyond that. It was just, it was insane. It was a lot. So I thankfully was living.
Melanie Avalon:
Are they monitoring that?
Barry Conrad:
or that was like on our code. No, they're monitoring it. There was cops out on the south spot. How do they monitor it?
Melanie Avalon:
But how would they know where you were from?
Barry Conrad:
They would basically stop you and say, where do you live that are like, yeah, as intense and so thankfully, I was living by the ocean and I was able to just take ocean walks that really got me through, which is what is part partially when inspired.
Barry Conrad:
My song ocean road to shameless plug right there.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, really? Wait, I have to listen. Ocean Road, OK, putting in the show notes. I'm going to look after this.
Barry Conrad:
As you said, cloudware on the flipside.
Melanie Avalon:
So, you know, I eat a lot of natural, real foods, a lot of cucumbers and such and blueberries. So like my normal buying habits are to go to Costco and buy like 15, three packs of cucumbers, like 10 bags of blueberries.
Melanie Avalon:
Like I buy a lot of the same thing. And yeah, it's like a whole thing. Like they know me there. Like they really know me there. It's kind of crazy. So like the pandemic happened. So I would like go places and buy what I normally buy.
Melanie Avalon:
And you know, there was like the idea of like people were like stockpiling. And I felt like I needed a sign that was like, no, I always buy 50 cucumbers. Like this is my normal habit. This is not like I'm not freaking out.
Barry Conrad:
who's the blonde lady she's like she's stealing all the stuff we need
Melanie Avalon:
Like, he's like stockpiling. No, I'm not stockpiling. This is just how I shop. I'm sorry. So
Barry Conrad:
I'm just trying to get a visual of you buying all of these cute, do people look at you funny when you do that?
Melanie Avalon:
Oh yeah, no, they know me, like they know me. For real, like they know me. It's a thing.
Barry Conrad:
a lot of skelops, right? You love skelops, that's your thing.
Melanie Avalon:
Scallop yeah so basically it's scallops blueberries and cucumbers and massive amounts and if I don't buy the scallops one day they'll be like where's the scallops and if I don't buy the blueberries like where's the blueberries.
Barry Conrad:
Okay, Team Blueberries, Team Cucumbers, I haven't bought that many knee scallops, but I do like them. I do like them though, but they're expensive too. They're not cheap.
Melanie Avalon:
Fun fact for the audience, Barry, not scallops, but in the same family of shellfish, Barry was reacting allergicly to shrimp and decided he liked shrimp too much for that and he was going to fight his way through.
Melanie Avalon:
I love this story. So you like deconditioned your body to shrimp, right? Like you can eat shrimp now.
Barry Conrad:
I don't know how it's possible but i Melanie is exactly right i would literally blow up my neck and face would expand and break out in hives every time i had shellfish it's so crazy like actually scary, what my stubbornness of not wanting to give up the enjoyment of this room like friends like i'm not giving this up.
Melanie Avalon:
like small amounts no no oh you just go big but you're good now i'm good now okay so when you visit we're gonna have a shrimp cocktail as an appetizer
Barry Conrad:
Do you know that I've actually never had one of those before? I know what they are. Don't, don't yell at me. I know. It's like one of my favorites. I know what it is. I just, it's not a thing here in Australia really.
Barry Conrad:
Sadly, it's not.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay, so okay, we're gonna have one of those.
Barry Conrad:
been talking about shrimps aka prawn, we call it prawns over here.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, you call them prawns? Yeah. Whenever I think of prawns, I think of that Cloverfield movie or no. Do you know that movie? Which one? Oh, District 9. With that movie, I think of District 9.
Barry Conrad:
Hi, Prawns. Often I'll go back to fasting geek territory, like I would often open my window with a plate of prawns, aka shrimp, with salt and pepper, maybe a little bit of mayonnaise or peronnaise, and some wine.
Barry Conrad:
So it's really refreshing. Peronnaise? Peronnaise, I don't know if they have... It's kind of like a spicy mayonnaise, kind of like... Whoa, I don't think we have that. If you don't have either a hack to make it, so it takes some normal mayonnaise or a healthy mayonnaise and just basically thrash it with cayenne pepper and you just spice it up and you just dip that in there with a little drizzle of lemon and you're good to go.
Melanie Avalon:
That's good. Okay, I'm not a big Kyan fan, but it sounds sounds interesting. Not a spicy. Yeah. No, not I'm not big on the spiciness. Oh, did you know you want to know a fun fact about spicy. Did you know that there's no evolutionary explanation for why humans like spicy like it literally causes us pain, but there's no reason for why we would eat it.
Melanie Avalon:
I find this fascinating. What? Yeah. So like everything out like bitter. Okay. So like when we eat bitter, it's like, oh, it's like, it's like signaling that it's a plant, anti nutrient against the past.
Melanie Avalon:
And like it helps us with all of that, like spicy. There's no, it's literally pain. And there's no reason that we would be doing it. Humans are the only people that willingly eat spicy animals do not animals will go eat like bitter plants because they know it's good for them.
Melanie Avalon:
And medicinally, spicy. Nope. Just humans.
Barry Conrad:
That's really interesting actually that's that's fascinating how did you like how do you find that out that's crazy.
Melanie Avalon:
I don't know. I'm like a, just a collection of family.
Barry Conrad:
Fun facts. Because, listen, I was born in South Africa and- Is spicy big there? Yes, spice and curries and things like that. My palate is just very diverse, so I can really appreciate spice and hot food, and I love it.
Melanie Avalon:
Okay. So, and you have that, what's it called? Lion? Wait, what, what was it called? Something Nate, Pyrenees. Pyrenees. Yeah.
Barry Conrad:
Maybe this is an Aussie thing, paradise.
Melanie Avalon:
I think it might be. I don't think we have that here.
Barry Conrad:
But can you will you maybe potentially kind of maybe try it.
Melanie Avalon:
I knew you were going to ask that. I knew, I knew that was going to, no.
Barry Conrad:
But what if you just like dip your little pinky into it and go, maybe it's kind of okay.
Melanie Avalon:
Barry is always like, will you maybe try this one thing just once, maybe?
Barry Conrad:
like oysters. Melanie, Ellen doesn't know oysters.
Melanie Avalon:
I will try oysters because oysters fit in my, like, real food animal thing-ness. I don't like spicy though.
Barry Conrad:
Did I ask you about travel? So when you travel, does your, okay, let me give you a scenario to give a context. If you're traveling for family vacation for a week, I know that you like to travel for a day, but just stay there for a week.
Barry Conrad:
And it's like family, you know, you're celebrating maybe a birthday or something like that. You're there for a week. Will you adjust your, not all allowances, but would you change your eating protocol, aka, or your fasting protocol or not?
Barry Conrad:
And why?
Melanie Avalon:
Yes. So, so many thoughts. I think honestly the hardest thing in my intermittent fasting journey has been the social situation of how people think it's weird to make certain dietary choices or certain fasting protocols.
Melanie Avalon:
Like it seems really weird. And the hardest part for me has been knowing what feels good in my body and being okay with that and not feeling bad, like not feeling like I need to change what I'm doing for other people.
Melanie Avalon:
Like that's been really, really hard. So when I travel, which is not like all the time, because as you know, it's not my skillset, but I am much happier with everything if I just eat what I really know that I like.
Melanie Avalon:
And when I go to like parties or things like that, like I know what I like. And if I eat that and drink that, I feel better in my body. And so I it's been a whole journey to like accept that I can do that and not have to feel bad about it.
Melanie Avalon:
Because people really want you to eat the things like they really want you to do. I agree with that. And I actually had a moment recently, which is like this beautiful shining moment. So my mom has kind of been not the most accepting of my dietary choices for a long time.
Melanie Avalon:
So because I first went low carb in 20, I think like 2010. Can you tell me what?
Barry Conrad:
That means what is what is local mean in the context like.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, so in 2010 is when I found the whole Atkins keto thing. And so I just counted carbs, basically. So I stopped eating sugar and grains and like I was eating a lot of meat and dairy, a lot of dairy as well.
Melanie Avalon:
But I was counting carbs, like counting carbs. And that's when I started that. That was 2010. I started intermittent fasting in 20, probably like 2011 or 12. And then I started 2012, like cutting out processed foods.
Melanie Avalon:
So it's been a long time of going to restaurants with my family and being crazy with what I order. Because even with low carb, I wasn't with low carb, I was not modifying it as much as I do now. But I was eating really low carb and making modifications, like ordering weird things and not eating dessert.
Melanie Avalon:
And my mom was always so like not about she was not about it. And she texted me like week before last, probably. And she said, quote, I have an apology for you. And I was like, Oh, gosh, like what happened?
Melanie Avalon:
I was like, what? And then she was like, she started doing an elimination diet by her doctor's referral. And she's realizing how much she reacts to foods and how it makes her feel. And she was like, I'm doing an elimination diet.
Melanie Avalon:
I'm realizing that I can't tolerate these foods. And I'm so sorry that I gave you so much grief for so long about ordering certain things at certain restaurants. And now she's like all about it. And for like a week straight, I got a text like every day being like, I'm so sorry that I so point being of all of that is there's this crazy because food is really social.
Melanie Avalon:
And I do love like enjoying meals with people and social context and enjoying it. And but to answer your question about what I modify for situations like with family and traveling.
Barry Conrad:
Let me give you an actual hold on. Let me give you a thing. If Barry Conray came over there, I was like, no, we're going out to eat. You know, we're doing this, we're doing that. Would you if I ordered, I'd probably typically ordered mainly sort of the same ballpark of what you'd have for like the appetizers, mains and stuff like that.
Barry Conrad:
But if I ordered like, maybe like a dessert, would you have like a spoon of dessert, of my dessert?
Melanie Avalon:
I would eat what I, because here's the thing, like I would, I get so much joy from, because I, okay, multiple things here, thing one. And there are different types of people, we talked about this earlier, like extremists versus moderationists.
Melanie Avalon:
For me, it's like AA, like having a bite of that sugaryness makes me just, it does not feel, it tastes amazing. And then I am craving and wanting. It's like not an experience that I like having, like it's horrible.
Melanie Avalon:
Like I'd rather just not have it. And I can genuinely, honestly, I know you don't believe me, but you having it, I can like enjoy like you having it and like seeing it and hearing from you how it tastes.
Melanie Avalon:
And then I get the best of both worlds. Cause I get to enjoy it, like the idea of it without getting that intense craving feeling.
Barry Conrad:
So, you know, it's really weird what in a kind of maybe similar way, like, I often ask people, even if it's like someone that I just met, like, we'll talk, make small talk and stuff. So also, what's for dinner or what's for lunch?
Barry Conrad:
And that's my way of enjoying vicariously. What do you want to know? Like, you're weird. What a widow like they want to know. Same, same. There you go. I get it.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my gosh, wait, I have a good example for that. Here's the thing, okay, I'm so happy you said that. Okay, so this is my question for like you and the universe. So, you know like food shows or like show all the stuff and like all the things?
Melanie Avalon:
For some reason, if you watch that, but you actually eat the stuff as well, it's like all fine. Like you're allowed to like watch it and like be like, oh, if it looks so good and like fantasize about it and then eat it, like you're okay.
Melanie Avalon:
But if you watch it but don't eat it, now you're like weird. And I don't understand that.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta eat it.
Melanie Avalon:
Wait, you just like undid everything I just let up to.
Barry Conrad:
No, no, I don't understand what you're saying. Like you can't you can live vicariously through. No, I get it. Because I do the same thing. I'm like, oh, and I always ask people like, Oh, so what's for dinner?
Barry Conrad:
Because I when they describe it, something about them describing the food, I can picture myself doing it. And that's like a bit of a dopamine hit. I'm like, cool, I'm good to go.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, like I my hack my hack and this is I've talked about this on the show before so I feel okay about saying it now but those foods are so good and it's they're engineered to make you addicted to them.
Melanie Avalon:
So it makes sense. So my hack is I will like when I'm eating my meal at night, I like my blueberries, which tastes sweet and tastes amazing and are healthy for me. Sometimes I'll like look at other foods that are like that I actually wouldn't eat.
Melanie Avalon:
And it's like I get to experience them vicariously while still eating amazing food. And everybody wins because I'm not going to actually eat it because it makes me it's not good for me and it makes me feel like not good.
Barry Conrad:
I will say, Mel, like one thing that I have changed, maybe the past, I think I've mentioned this to you before, like the past couple months, I did cut back a lot more my ultra processed food. And what I mean by that is a lot of food that we buy is processed in some way.
Barry Conrad:
But ultra, I mean, like your cheetos and your chocolates and stuff like that, you know, I mean, like, and just that alone has made such a difference. I've still been able to drink as much because I like to drink while I cook like a much on a mess up, sound like alcoholic, like I cook and drink at the same time I enjoy it, you know, I can drink a lot more wine, I can eat a lot more food, but it's real foods,
Barry Conrad:
whole foods. And I can digest a lot more and get the same results somehow without having the ultra process. So can you speak to that a bit more? Like, why is that? How does that work? Because I can eat a lot of more chicken or more rice or fruit or whatnot, and wine, and just cutting out a couple more blocks of chocolate or whatever, it makes a difference, right?
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, no, there is magic. There's such magic to eating complete whole real foods, which is kind of like the theme of this episode. But like when they're in their whole foods form, it takes a lot more energy to digest them.
Melanie Avalon:
It's not like instant, just energy going straight into you from the from the processed foods. And the amazing thing is once you actually do clean up your palate, and people don't believe this, and I wouldn't have believed it because I used to eat all the foods.
Melanie Avalon:
But you start craving natural real foods in their whole form. And that's what's hard to communicate to some people. But I am so satisfied eating my stuff I eat, which is like plain meat, plain chicken, plain scallops, cucumbers, blueberries.
Melanie Avalon:
And it tastes amazing. Like I get the best of both worlds. And I mean, we could do a whole tangent. But actually, so there's this guy named Mark Shatsker who wrote books called The Dorito Effect and The End of Craving.
Melanie Avalon:
I've had him on the Melanie Avalon Biohive podcast. Okay, so his theory, which is mind blowing, is that this is like a whole, whole tangent. But his theory is that when so like foods have these added vitamins, and they have added like sweeteners that are non caloric.
Melanie Avalon:
And it sends a lot of confusing messages to our body because on the calorie side of things, like it tastes super sweet, but it has like artificial sweeteners. So it's like not exactly what we think. And then the vitamins, we get vitamins, but not in the context of the way they would have been naturally.
Melanie Avalon:
And basically, it makes our body just freak out and like shut down, like metabolism wise. And there's been studies on this. So I mean, he goes to the extreme like saying that if you have a sugar free processed food with less calories, you'll gain weight because your body shuts down because it's getting mixed messages about it.
Melanie Avalon:
But I think there's something really big to eating whole foods in their natural form with the vitamins that they have the nutrients that they have and like communicating the right signals and feeling satiated compared to these processed foods, which are all over the place and oftentimes, oftentimes high energy with no nutrients on the flip side of things.
Melanie Avalon:
It's just it's not good. Like it basically just puts our body into a constant fat storing mode and possibly a state of uncertainty, which is what his theory is.
Barry Conrad:
Can I ask you, so I know things are a little bit different over there, but define because it's kind of a slippery slope to say, processed food, because a lot of food, even if it is healthy, is in some way, I don't know, handled or processed.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, so what is the gauge for that? Because you can't really get a pure straight out of the soil, you know, something to eat.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, there is the whole Nova classification, do you know about that?
Barry Conrad:
No, tell me, because I feel like people do the best they can do in terms of what they know. So they might go, I'll avoid the Doritos isle. I'll go to the veggies section. But even some of those veggies are sprayed with things or handled before they get to the grocery store.
Barry Conrad:
But people thinking they're doing the right thing. So do you know what I'm saying? I do. It's not completely pure, but it's the best of what you can get, I guess.
Melanie Avalon:
So I'll give you the technical legal answer, and then my thoughts. So the Nova classification system, it came out in 2018. And they basically put food into four groups. So group one was unprocessed or minimally processed foods.
Melanie Avalon:
So that's basically what we think of with unprocessed. So fresh, dry or frozen vegetables or fruit, grains, legumes, meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds, so like food in its real form. You can remove unedible parts like the skin or something, but it's like you're not actually changing the food.
Melanie Avalon:
And there's group two, which is processed culinary ingredients. So that's plant oils, animal fats, sugar, honey, salt. You're basically refining, grinding, milling or drying. Then there's group three, which is processed foods.
Melanie Avalon:
So that's with the canned pickled vegetables, meat, fish, fruit, bread, cheese. You're basically taking the group one, so like the real foods, and then you're adding in group two, which is the processed foods.
Melanie Avalon:
So like adding sugar in the process or in the pickling process, the smoking process, the curing process. And there's group four, which is ultra processed foods. And that's the worst. And it's basically a series of, it's where you're extracting, you're chemically modifying.
Melanie Avalon:
It's what we think of with like fast food and all the things. So it's things like packaged snacks, reconstituted meat, prepackaged frozen dishes, all the things. And what was exciting about this was that it actually gave definitions to this idea of processing, and then they were able to track how it affected health, if it was like which group it was in.
Melanie Avalon:
That's like a technical answer for more like my thoughts. I really feel like it's kind of more common knowledge. Like is this food that you're eating a food in its real form that we would have eaten hundreds of years ago?
Melanie Avalon:
Because what was your question about people being confused about it?
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, so I mean, I'm projecting, but maybe the average person going to the grocery store might go, okay, this is day one of me being healthy. My first thought is just avoiding the Cheetos and chocolate candy aisle.
Barry Conrad:
And then we just go to like where I can see vegetables maybe, and maybe I'll grab some of that. And then maybe I'll grab maybe a package of ground beef, and then maybe I'll grab a pack like some potatoes and some rice.
Barry Conrad:
But even those things that seem healthy, maybe are treated before they get to the grocery store in some way. Yeah, but that's the best I know.
Melanie Avalon:
here's my suggestion. So and yes, and I think any step you take, especially if you've lived in the, the current world of food and processed foods, like any step towards not that is amazing. So thumbs up.
Melanie Avalon:
I think some, I think there's some good tenants people can follow to break out of that, which is one at the grocery store, if you shop around the perimeter, because most of the fresh stuff, so like the meat, the fruit, the veggies, they aren't in the center aisles.
Melanie Avalon:
They're in the perimeter. So don't go into the aisles unless required. You might go into the aisles for if you want some like olive oil or coconut oil or spices, but in general shopping around the perimeter.
Melanie Avalon:
And then honestly food shouldn't need an ingredient list. Like it shouldn't have a label. Like it should just be the food and even things that do have labels. So like talking about the spices, if you go look at the spices, like turmeric and ginger, like it should just be turmeric and ginger.
Melanie Avalon:
There shouldn't be like all this other crazy stuff added. I think having that paradigm can really help with making choices, but I do think it's like it's a stepping stone and it requires a lot of education because like you just said, it's crazy.
Melanie Avalon:
Like you can buy something and you think it's not processed and like the original, but it has all this stuff added. That happens a lot with especially with like seafood and happens a lot with like seafood and things.
Melanie Avalon:
We're like chicken even. Like a rotisserie chicken. Like okay, like I'm being good. I'm buying a rotisserie chicken. Like it's chicken. But then you look at the ingredients and it has like corn syrup and sugars and flavors and sweeteners and it's like what?
Melanie Avalon:
That's not like just chicken. So I just think education is the key and having eyes wide open. But anybody can look at an ingredient label.
Barry Conrad:
But then can I ask you again, coming back to the example of, for example, like if when I buy, you know, if I'm feeling like I deserve this treat, I want this treat, and I'm buying chocolate, and maybe a bag of chips, and I'll have that maybe one day a week, but then, you know, I'm still pretty, I'm fine still, obviously, the next day, I know, based on experience, like the next day, I'll probably feel a bit bloated or feel a bit,
Barry Conrad:
there's waterway because of that extra salt and stuff like that, it's fine. I don't freak out. But to the average person, they might think, Oh, my gosh, I've gained all this fat, it's not possible to gain a pound or a kg of fat overnight.
Barry Conrad:
But people freak out because they get on the scale the next morning and go, I'm fat now, or I've gained weight. It's like, well, you got to understand how food works, right?
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, there's so many thoughts there. One is yes, you can't so if you have like one meal or snack or treat off and the next day you gained X amount of pounds like you didn't
Barry Conrad:
I call it trinkets, trinkets.
Melanie Avalon:
I know, that's like an Australian world, a trinket.
Barry Conrad:
That's actually not, it's a mini thing. People are like, Trinkets, what the heck?
Melanie Avalon:
Is it not Australian? No. Trinket. If you have a trinket.
Barry Conrad:
I call tricas like chocolate chips things like all the kind of like, you know, things that I wouldn't normally have if I'm trying to prepare for like a shoe or something, you know, you know, I'm talking about like, what does that think the ferry?
Barry Conrad:
What is the thing you like the
Melanie Avalon:
Like a snack? Like a treat. A treat. What's that cake that you like? Confetti.
Barry Conrad:
Yes, that's what a trinket is to me. That's a trinket.
Melanie Avalon:
Funfetti. Funfetti is not trinket, it's an experience that we'll never come back from.
Barry Conrad:
You need to introduce me to it and you can watch me have it.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes, I'm down. Yep. Yes, yes. And the gluten free one that tastes basically the same. I think it's really important for people to understand their mindset and the relationship with all of this, because some people can have the trinkets and like feel great and, or have the trinkets and maybe not feel great, but it doesn't create a downward spiral because I think that's the problem with a lot of people.
Melanie Avalon:
And either way, say you're doing like really great and you're like fasting and doing all the things and you have like a cheat meal or whatever, everything is okay. That's my message. Like everything is okay.
Melanie Avalon:
And I just don't want people to get into the mindset of everything is ruined and falling off the wagon because that just leads to more like falling off the wagon. And some people, I think you need to know yourself.
Melanie Avalon:
Some people are good having trinkets occasionally. And some people like for me, it's like just not a good thing. So I'd rather not go there. Some people can have them. And either way, like you said, like one, you know, moment is not the ruin of everything.
Melanie Avalon:
I think people just need to know themselves. And I, and last thing, I think they need to have experience what it feels like to eat all natural, whole, real foods. And then they can actually tell the difference of what the different things feel like.
Barry Conrad:
It's just more satiating and speaking like that's funny that you mentioned your mom like my mom Reese as a light has Been talking so much more about oh, wow, like, you know I've been having more protein in my diet.
Barry Conrad:
This is like just changing the way I feel like I feel more full I'm like, I know And so it's the same sort of like aha moment like she's never really Maybe just known about that, you know, like the benefits of that so Knowledge is it's important for people to know that protein is so foundational Like as we age our muscle decreases like I want to say a percentage Every what is every year every decade you tell me about it.
Barry Conrad:
It's a lot. Yeah, so After a certain age so like it's important to be having a lot of protein, you know That's the foundation and then I don't think it's a deal breaker whether it's fat or carbs, but it depends on how you feel Everyone will be different.
Barry Conrad:
So some people can do more fat somebody could do more carbs, but It's just such a game changer and you feel more full if you're just having carbs all the time You're gonna crave everything you're gonna eat all day.
Barry Conrad:
I promise you
Melanie Avalon:
It's so true. There's so much magic to when you focus on protein for satiation, hunger, and then like you were saying body composition, all the things, and you can have all of it in a short amount of time and build muscle.
Barry Conrad:
despite what people may believe.
Melanie Avalon:
I know. I know. Oh my goodness. So many things. Well, this was amazing. We didn't even talk about wine.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, well, give me like a real quick succinct elevator pitch about wine, because I've heard Melanie in my in my life, people have been coming out saying, I've read these new studies saying alcohol is all bad now, like even two glasses a week is really bad.
Barry Conrad:
So what's your take on that? Red carpet answer, you have to answer it really quickly.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh my gosh, so many things. Well, I did recently have an article published about this in Fox.
Barry Conrad:
I saw that. Congratulations.
Melanie Avalon:
Thank you. Thank you. My thoughts are that the if we look at the studies, the curve is consistently a J shaped curve. So people who drink moderately, minimally to moderately seem to have the best health effects compared to people who don't drink at all or people who drink to excess.
Melanie Avalon:
And if we look at populations like the longest lived studies ever, the longest lived populations, they're all drinking wine. I think there are a lot of health benefits to wine when it comes to the polyphenols and all of that when it comes to drinking.
Melanie Avalon:
So the studies that keep coming out about it saying that it's, you know, horrible and no drinking is better than drinking at all, I just I feel like we look at reality. That's not what we see when we look at people drinking and we look at the mechanisms of what certain things in alcohol might be doing.
Melanie Avalon:
Honestly, I think people should do like you need to know yourself. So you need to know how what works for you in your life. It's kind of like the things with the the processed foods and all the things like are you a moderationist?
Melanie Avalon:
Are you extremist? Like who are you? So knowing yourself. And then I think the the type of drink that you're drinking is super important. So I've talked about this a lot. But I think one of the main problems with all these studies is that they're lumping together all alcohol into one category and they're not accounting for what type of alcohol, especially with wine.
Melanie Avalon:
This is why I talk about dry brown wines all the time. There's a big difference between conventional wine, which can be high, high sugar, high alcohol, high pesticides, high toxins. That's way different from having dry farmed, lower alcohol, low sugar wine from Europe.
Melanie Avalon:
That's why I only drink that type of wine. And you will feel massively different if you drink that type of wine compared to conventional wine, which can actually have up to I think over 70 additives are approved for wine in the US, which is crazy.
Melanie Avalon:
Crazy. Fun fact, if you're drinking wine at a bar or something like cheap wine and your teeth turn purple, I used to think that that was the wine turning my teeth purple. It's not the wine. It's because there's a dye in the US called mega purple.
Melanie Avalon:
And they put it in the wine. And it's like a purple dye. That's the type of stuff. Yeah. Because I think that was like wine. Like, oh, I can't drink wine because it'll turn my teeth red. No, you can drink wine.
Melanie Avalon:
Just don't drink conventional wine that's mega purple added.
Barry Conrad:
But why they're adding, I don't understand why you would add die to one.
Melanie Avalon:
Consistency, because so much of the wine in the US, it's all owned by a few key wine producers that own everybody. And they want to mass produce wine and make it all the same. And they do that through dyes and additives, so then they can just turn it out like a factory.
Barry Conrad:
A quick fire answer from you like white and red wine, if someone prefers white wine, is that still beneficial in some way or not at all? Because a lot of studies come out like red wine is like great.
Barry Conrad:
So the layperson, give them like a little something.
Melanie Avalon:
No, that's a good question. I do think a lot of the health benefits from wine come from the polyphenols that are in red wine. And they're higher in red wine because when you make wine, the reason wine is red or white is because whether or not it's macerated and exposed to the skins and the fermentation process.
Melanie Avalon:
And so you get a lot more of that in red wine compared to white wine. There's been a lot of studies looking at red versus white wine. I do think... So I think this is just my opinion, but I do think that minimal to moderate drinking probably has health benefits for a myriad of reasons.
Melanie Avalon:
I think we'll get way more health benefits from red wine. That said, I am an advocate, like I said, of dry farmed wine. By the way, speaking of quick tangent, if you'd like to get the wines that I drink every single night that actually check for this.
Melanie Avalon:
So they check that it's low alcohol, low sugar, organic, free of pesticides, free of mold. They don't even sell or give US wines because they don't meet their standards. It's called dry farmed wines.
Melanie Avalon:
You can go to dryfarmedwines.com slash Melanie Avalon and get a bottle for a penny. That's why I drink every single night. I love them. It's amazing. They have white and red. But back to your question, I do think there are more health benefits to red wine.
Melanie Avalon:
I also think in a healthy lifestyle, if white wine is your wine of choice and you're drinking the wines that I talked about, that you can probably get health benefits from it. I know it's like super controversial.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, wait, one more thing. I'm interviewing next week, the creators of The Mind Diet, which is kind of like the official diet for Alzheimer's.
Barry Conrad:
Oh, wow.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, so they've done a lot of research and they've been around for quite a while and it's like the diet like they've done that they've done the most scientific research on the best diet for Alzheimer's and they include in their diet because
Barry Conrad:
Where in Panama is like, I'll have like a Pinot Noir and like a Tempranillo, but I'll also do at the moment drink a lot of Pinot Grigio. A lot Pinot Grigio. And it doesn't seem to have seemingly any effect on my body.
Barry Conrad:
I don't understand that though.
Melanie Avalon:
I just think there's this whole misconception, all of alcohol is lumped together in one thing, and it's not taking into account the type, like wine specifically, and the types of wine. But I do think there's a lot of fear mongering around alcohol.
Melanie Avalon:
And I understand why completely, 100%. But yeah, I do feel strongly that you can definitely have, you know, alcohol in your diet and have the health benefits.
Barry Conrad:
I think what you're saying, it's about knowing yourself. It's really important to know what you respond to, well or not.
Melanie Avalon:
Yes, completely. And that's kind of what it is with honestly, with everything, like we're talking about in the beginning, the fasting, the eating, all the things.
Barry Conrad:
Even with fasting, I always I tell people like, oh, this is what I do. But, you know, like, I know it's not for everyone. It's just you got to do what's best for you because you immediately just want to derail that whole thing.
Barry Conrad:
Well, you're trying to make me do what you do. I'm like, no, I'm just saying this works for me, but you should do what works for you.
Melanie Avalon:
Exactly, I cannot read more like find what works for you and my goal with these shows just share what I'm learning until people can make your own decisions and find what works for them what.
Barry Conrad:
What's the Alzheimer, the diet? That's wild. There's a diet for that.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I'm so excited to interview them. Like I said, they have the most scientific studies on diet for preventing cognitive decline.
Barry Conrad:
I think I've mostly read one.
Melanie Avalon:
I drink mostly red. I drink both though. Okay, so they do five ounces of dry red wine. I'll do any varietal. It just needs to be what I said, like dry, low alcohol, low sugar, organic, all the things.
Barry Conrad:
Okay, what can't tell me what low alcohol means for you per bottle? Like is it 12% is it 11% is it like a 8%?
Melanie Avalon:
Dry Farm wines, all of Dry Farm wines is 12.5% or less. And you can get on their extra low ABV subscription, which I love. And that's what I am on. Oh, by the way, join Dry Farm wines now. When you sign up, it's random, like you click what you want, and they send random varietals.
Melanie Avalon:
So you can do that to start. You can also email them and you can tell them exactly what you like, and they'll help cultivate exactly what you want. And you can request extra low alcohol wines. So all of their extra low alcohol are 11.5% or less.
Melanie Avalon:
But yeah, 12.5% or less is what they consider low alcohol. When I'm at restaurants, because it's hard to find that, when I'm at restaurants, I try to go for 13% or less, max 13.5%, but not above that.
Barry Conrad:
Do you know what's interesting over here in Australia? Like our, our baseline over here is 12% per bottle, but it's a 750 mils bottle.
Melanie Avalon:
Well, that doesn't matter because it's like it's the percent of the alcohol. But oh, wow, I should come to Australia. I should come to Australia. You can come to Atlanta.
Barry Conrad:
Please come here because we need you, we don't have anything like you here.
Melanie Avalon:
I know. When you come here, I'll stock you up. I'll give you all the things and you can take them back.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, they need to ship to Australia. I wonder why they don't ship internationally. Maybe it's something to do with cost.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I don't know. But dryfromwines.com slash Melanie Avalon, use the coupon code Melanie Avalon, it will get you a free bottle for a penny. I love it. So yeah. Oh, wait, one last question about that.
Melanie Avalon:
Do you normally... So I always break my fast with wine. Do you normally have wine to break your fast or with your food? Like when do you have wine or wine alcohol?
Barry Conrad:
I would actually like to ask you this question, because I've been listening to, I'm not going to say who, but just certain podcasts and stuff, and they all say, particularly if you're training and things like that, resistance training for context, that you should, your first quote unquote meal should be a certain amount of grams of protein.
Barry Conrad:
But at times, like I'll often crack open a bottle of wine while I cook my first meal. So is there a difference in terms of the protein hitting your system if you have the wine first, or the protein first after a fasted steak?
Barry Conrad:
Because I do both. Sometimes I just do the protein first, sometimes the wine first, or whiskey.
Melanie Avalon:
Do you know that the body prioritizes breaking down alcohol before anything else so if you have wine in your system your body is gonna be like focused on that but the food is still there the protein still there so you are going to break it down eventually and i actually don't like drinking wine or alcohol with meals for this reason because i feel like it slows down.
Melanie Avalon:
It like slows down processing carbs and protein and fat so that's why i actually like going out drinking and then coming back and eating but that's just me.
Barry Conrad:
Is there a time limit then? For example, let me give you a scenario. If you're going out tonight and you're going out and having a drink, is there a certain amount of time that you go, I know if I wait this long, this will be optimum for me to eat at this other time to break down the protein.
Melanie Avalon:
I think it depends on a lot of things. It depends on what you drink. It depends on some people are faster, alcohol, metabolizers. It's like caffeine. So some people process it faster than others. Like for me, apparently I process alcohol really good.
Melanie Avalon:
Caffeine, not so much. So I think it's really individual. I don't have a blanket answer. I honestly don't know the answer. I don't know that there's enough studies on that. I just know for me... That'd be an interesting study though, right?
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, it would be. Yeah. That's like my type of study. Like if I had like unlimited funds and I could do a study, I would do something like that for sure.
Barry Conrad:
Because I often do that, like I'll open it with a glass of wine or whiskey or a whiskey sour while I'm cooking my protein-heavy meal.
Melanie Avalon:
I love that. And for me, like, I feel like it puts you into a, because we know for eating, you need to be in the parasympathetic, like, relaxed, digested and rest state.
Barry Conrad:
What does that mean, Melanie, for the layperson, if they hear what his person thinks?
Melanie Avalon:
like your nervous system has two main forms that can be in, which is the sympathetic. So that's like fight or flight, like, like adrenaline doing things. And then there's the parasympathetic, which is the like resting and digesting.
Melanie Avalon:
And so you oscillate between the two on different spectrum levels. And so I find for me that having a glass of wine with a meal helps ease you into that. I find it helps with digestion.
Barry Conrad:
It's so interesting, because a lot of people just eat or drink how they want, but it's just interesting how different things affect different results. It's crazy.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, takeaways from this episode. Okay, here are my takeaways. Let me know if you would add something. Find what works for you. Protein is really important. And also, it's okay if you eat it all at once in a massive meal.
Melanie Avalon:
You can still maintain or even gain muscle. Process foods. Try not to eat them. Try to eat the most natural form that you can. Do what works for you and don't be upset by other people judging you on your dietary choices.
Melanie Avalon:
Anything else?
Barry Conrad:
And I would say as well, it's really picky, but more like I would say ultra processed food. Because I feel like a lot of food, even if they're healthy, they can be kind of processed. Don't worry about that.
Barry Conrad:
But I feel like the ultra processed stuff, just avoid like what Melanie said before, avoid the center aisles in the grocery store. You know, like you'll be you'll be fine. You don't need cereal in your life.
Barry Conrad:
It's okay. You don't need it.
Melanie Avalon:
Live your life, eat real foods, look at labels.
Barry Conrad:
So do you, you know, if that's where you're at, like you got to be conscious for a patient because we're taught a certain thing and everyone learns or moves forward in different ways.
Melanie Avalon:
Not only are we taught it, but we've grown up in a culture that has been scientifically engineered to make us crave it and want it more. So be kind to yourself. The deck is stacked against you and you can see the light and then make choices and go at your own pace.
Barry Conrad:
And I will definitely say this, it sounds like such a cliche thing to say, but food is so important. People like what we put in our bodies really does matter. It'll balance for longevity, for our present, for our future.
Barry Conrad:
Like it's, it's everything. Like just be mindful. You know, there are other choices that can taste equally amazing. That don't have to be what you've always known before.
Melanie Avalon:
like you will enjoy it at these dinners. I really do enjoy what I'm eating, even if I don't eat dessert, Barry.
Barry Conrad:
But I will have that cake. What is it?
Melanie Avalon:
I'm having a holding you to it when is this is so fun you have to come back in the future and update us.
Barry Conrad:
And in person, we'll have to do an IRL episode. I mentioned that.
Melanie Avalon:
I've actually, I've only done one in-person interview ever.
Barry Conrad:
Okay, Melanie, when I come over there, we have to do it like when I come over there, it's a winner than if we have to do an IRL because I'll be there.
Melanie Avalon:
Do we have to, Flo?
Barry Conrad:
We have to and you know what though part of the episode was the cake will be there and I will do it.
Melanie Avalon:
Like in person? Of course. Can we just like do that and then we'll talk about it later?
Barry Conrad:
Why don't you go like, why don't you like video? Like, what does your deal with that? Cause you're an actress.
Melanie Avalon:
I know. I don't like seeing myself. Oh, I guess. I like audio. Can't we just like also do the interview later because.
Barry Conrad:
Yeah, we can. We don't have to do it.
Melanie Avalon:
If we're like doing an interview while having the experience, I feel like that's like too much taken and like I'm a control freak and like trying, you know, we should like have the experience and then we'll do an interview.
Barry Conrad:
have the experience and then we can debrief. Yeah, that makes sense.
Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Well, this has been absolutely amazing. Friends, listeners, these show notes will be at ifpodcast.com. So you can read a full transcript there as well as links to everything that we talked about.
Melanie Avalon:
You can follow us on Instagram at ifpodcast. I am Melanie Avalon Berry. Are you Berry Conrad on Instagram?
Barry Conrad:
berry underscore conrad
Melanie Avalon:
Barry Underscore, Conrad.
Barry Conrad:
But if you just type in Barry, you'll actually find me and we'll just come up.
Melanie Avalon:
Oh, yeah, just Barry. And he's like the first one that pops up. So definitely follow him as well. And this has been so amazing. Thank you for this conversation. And hopefully we can talk again in the future.
Barry Conrad:
Thank you so much for having me and I hope you all enjoy it.
Melanie Avalon:
All right. Have a good day in Australia. It's like midnight here. It's like what, noon?
Barry Conrad:
Thanks for making the time. It's like 2.17 here. PM in the afternoon. It's crazy. Have a good day. Have a good night.
Melanie Avalon:
Good time, mate.
Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!
LINKS
BUY:
Melanie's What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine
Vanessa's Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight
The Tone Device Breath Ketone Analyzer
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
More on Melanie: MelanieAvalon.com
More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com
Original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts - it helps more than you know!
