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Mar 25

Episode 101: Dr. Sara Gottfried – The Brain/Body Connection, Detoxing, Women, Stress, And Fasting, IF When Conceiving Or Pregnant, Female Hormones, HRV, Menstrual Cycles, Neuroplasticity, And More!

Autophagy , Diet Mindsets , Fasting Approaches , Hormones , Insulin , Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 101 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Gin Stephens, author of Delay, Don't Deny: Living An Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by

Audible: This is Melanie's well-known secret for reading #allthebooks #allthetime! Audible provides the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet, in every genre! With Audible, you can listen on any device, anytime, anywhere! We're obsessed! Audible members can choose 3 titles every month (1 audiobook and 2 Audible Originals), with rollover credits, easy exchanges, discounts on titles beyond credits, and audiobooks you'll keep forever! Go To Audible.com/IFPODCAST Or Text IFPODCAST To 500500 For A 30 Day Free Trial, Including A Free Audiobook!

Dr. Sara Gottfried

Sara Gottfried, MD is the three-time New York Times bestselling author of The Hormone Cure, The Hormone Reset Diet, and Younger. Her new book that we're talking about today is called Brain Body Diet: 40 Days to a Lean, Calm, Energized, and Happy Self. After graduating from Harvard Medical School and MIT, Dr. Gottfried completed her residency at the University of California at San Francisco. She is a board-certified gynecologist who teaches natural hormone balancing in her novel online programs so that women can lose weight, detoxify, and slow down aging. Learn more at SaraGottfriedMD.com


To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES FIX ALL TIMES

Why Dr. Gottfried Wrote The Brain Body Diet

What Are The Symptoms Of A Brain Body Dysfunctional Connection?

What Is The Root Cause Of This Imbalance?

Getting On The Healing Train: The Regenerative Process!

Brain Neurogenesis And Neuroplasticity

How To Start Healing: The Importance Of Food And 40 Days For Change

How Does IF Factor Into The Brain Body Protocol? 

Which IF Protocol To Choose?

Is IF Safe For Women? How Do You Know If IF Is Benefiting Or Hindering? 

Timing, Night Eating, Melatonin, & Insulin

Cycling In And Out Of Ketosis, Metabolic Flexibility

Can IF Work For Everyone? What About Those Who Struggle, Are Pregnant, Breastfeeding, Hypoglycemic, Etc.?

Listener Q&A: Melissa - Is IF Safe When Trying To Get Pregnant?

The Role Of Cortisol

Getting Enough Calories For Luteinizing Hormone With IF

Women, Stress, And Fasting

Listener Q&A: Allison - IF For A Mother + Boot Camp + Longer Fasts. How IS IF Different For Men Vs Women? What Are The Signs That Fasting Is A Stress?

Intense Exercise When Trying To Conceive

Tracking Sleep And Heart Rate Variability (HRV)

Listener Feedback: Jennifer:  Using HRV To Determine if Stess Is Good Or Bad

Listener Q&A: Madison:  What If IF Changes Your Menstrual Cycle?

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STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Gin: GinStephens.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Nov 17

Episode 396: Coffee, Low Cholesterol, Histamine Intolerance, Fasted Workouts, Flushing, Inflammation, Red Light Therapy, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 396 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

iHERB: iHerb is your easy, affordable, one-stop shop for wellness products across supplements, sports nutrition, groceries, beauty, baby, pets, and more! With over 50,000 products available, iHerb uses NO third party sellers, and ensures that what’s inside every bottle is tested and verified for quality. Plus, their climate-controlled shipping keeps everything fresh! Get 22% off your first order with code IFPODCAST at iherb.com/shop/IFPODCAST. Existing customers get 15% off!

PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT: Transform your relationships through changing your attachment style: the most powerful and influential driving force behind your beliefs and behaviors and the ultimate predictor of success in your relationships! The Personal Development School’s All-Access Pass is an immersive platform that offers tailor-made on-demand courses and programs, daily live webinars and Q&A sessions (with founder and author Thais Gibson herself), study groups, and much more that help you heal your attachment style! Get 50% off a Monthly Membership of the All-Access Pass with code IFPODCAST at ifpodcast.com/development.

LMNT: For fasting or low-carb diets electrolytes are key for relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness. With no sugar, artificial ingredients, coloring, and only 2 grams of carbs per packet, try LMNT for complete and total hydration. Go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any purchase!

To submit your own questions, email questions@ifpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

iHERB: Get 22% off your first order with code IFPODCAST at iherb.com/shop/IFPODCAST. Existing customers get 15% off!

PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT: Get 50% off a Monthly Membership of the All-Access Pass with code IFPODCAST at ifpodcast.com/development.

LMNT: Go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any purchase! Learn all about electrolytes in Episode 237 - our interview with Robb Rolf!

Listener Q&A: Nicole - Hi ladies! I have a question regarding facial flushing during fasting.

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #62 - Dr. Becky Campbell

SEED: Go to seed.com/ifpodcast and use code 25IFPODCAST to get 25% off your first month of DS-01®!

FOOD SENSE GUIDE: Get Melanie's app to tackle your food sensitivities! Food Sense includes a searchable catalog of 300+ foods, revealing their gluten, fodmap, lectin, histamine, amine, glutamate, oxalate, salicylate, sulfite, and thiol status. Food Sense also includes compound overviews, reactions to look for, lists of foods high and low in them, the ability to create your own personal lists, and more!

Listener Q&A: Heather - Trying to get back to fasting but I do a CrossFit type gym at 6am.. tried not to eat before once and got dizzy after... any tips?

Listener Q&A: Lisa - Inflammation & Joovv

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #224 - Forrest Smith (Kineon Labs)

Listener Q&A: Jodi - I appreciate your input on how to start with such a crazy life with work and kids.

Listener Q&A: Nicole - What are your biggest regrets?

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.) 

Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 396 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 396 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Vanessa Spina. Hi, everyone. Vanessa, can I ask you some questions? Sure. You drink coffee, right? Yes. I'm curious, in your coffee drinking habits, what is most important to you for the coffee? Is it the flavor, the health benefits, the antioxidants, the mold content?

Vanessa Spina:
I would say flavor and low mold content. Yeah.

Melanie Avalon:
That's what you.

Vanessa Spina:
Cause we, yeah, we have an espresso machine, so like we grind everything fresh. I keep everything sealed. I have a vacuum sealer that I use specifically for my coffee beans. So when I open it and fill the hopper, then I can reseal the bag and there's zero air in there and it keeps them super fresh. So I think that and the, we grind it on the spot and the flavor is really important. So I usually get, is it a hundred percent Arabica? I usually try to get that and yeah, and low mold content, I think is the most important thing for me.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm having an epiphany. Is that little hole on the bag of coffee beans so that you can vacuum seal it back?

Vanessa Spina:
Maybe, maybe there's some machines that work like that. I have like a vacuum sealer that I just take bags and I make my own seal and then I fill it with whatever and then I vacuum seal it after. I got it first when I was doing carnivore because, you know, we would get like these huge stakes divided up and then I would put it in there and seal each one individually or sometimes I would make like smoked brisket or something and then just seal it in there and it lasts forever and the fridge so you don't have to freeze it but then if you vacuum seal it and freeze it then it lasts like literally forever so yeah I got it then but now I use it to keep everything fresh and it's amazing for coffee beans so yeah those are I mean I think extra nutrients would be probably bonus.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay i'm pulling people in my coffee development adventures i had a vacuum sealer i was. Worried about the plastic like ceiling things in plastic but then i realized. Like when i order these frozen things are already in plastic just no easy answer with plastics why can i see a link glass.

Vanessa Spina:
Develop that. Yeah, something is coming, I'm sure.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, so how are things in your world? Thank you for the the input. I'm as I gather data

Vanessa Spina:
course. Yeah, things are amazing. I was just at the playground a few hours ago with Luca and I was doing this tandem zip line with him. I posted a video of it on my Instagram, but it's this new thing that we've been doing. There's a zip line at his playground. They have them at a lot of the playgrounds here and he usually goes by himself. And then one day I saw this other mom doing it and I was like, wow, that's crazy. She's doing the zip line with her we tried it and it was so much fun. So I get on it on the zip line and then he gets on on top of me and then we launch off together and we like stare into each other's eyes like screaming. So funny.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness. Is it on? I love Ziplines or I love them when I was little. Is it on like a hill or anything? Or is it over a height?

Vanessa Spina:
a little bit. It's on a slope and it's just, you know, like it's like a big tire. It's got like a bunch of tires that like break it and stuff. It's pretty well made. Yeah, it's just so much fun. So we were doing that this morning. My husband came down with my mother-in-law while we were doing him and they were laughing and they took a video of us doing it. So I put it on my Instagram. Yeah, it's just a typical day for me now. It's like a zip lining in the morning and then working in the afternoon and evening. I just feel really blessed that I have the energy to keep up with my boys because they're very energetic and do fun things like that with them. It's awesome. How are things with you?

Melanie Avalon:
I'm watching your video right now. Oh my goodness. That looks so fun. Oh, this is so fun. Oh, and it looks so European

Vanessa Spina:
the backdrop of the architecture.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I'm getting flashbacks because we used to always go to Germany growing up and we'd do stuff like that and we do like there were so many seesaws in Europe and my sister and brother and I would just have a blast. Like you'd have to like load up the tire on one side with rocks.

Vanessa Spina:
It's so much fun!

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I think those don't fly today in the U.S.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I was going to say I was talking to actually, yeah, Dr. Grant Tinsley last week about it because he has kids. And I was like, yeah, we were doing the zipline this morning because it's also ziplining that morning. And he was like, huh? And I was like, oh, you probably don't have those at your playgrounds. There's a lot more risky things here, I think.

Melanie Avalon:
I remember even when I was in elementary school at the playground, part of the playground was off limits and this was when I was like a little kid, so it's probably all off limits now. Good times, good times. I remember I had a friend that had a zip, she had like a massive, I don't even remember who it was. I just remember going there and that their backyard, they had a massive sloped backyard and they had a massive zip line. They went from the top to the bottom like long, fast and I was like, this is like having a roller coaster in your backyard. This is cool. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So that is awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. What's new with you? I don't know. I had a really good interview yesterday. Do you know Dr. Jack Wolfson, the paleocardiologist? No. He's yeah, the paleocardiologist, but it was a really fun conversation because he's literally the thing I'm probably most haunted by. Let me think if that's true. The main things I'm most haunted by in a diet, nutrition wars and opinions are protein intake and longevity, ironically enough because we talk about protein all the time, and lowering Apobee and LDL artificially with statins for longevity as advocated by Peter Atiyah. And so it was a deep, it was funny because it was a deep dive into like cholesterol and LDL and Apobee and he's very anti-statins and he's also very anti-Peter Atiyah, even though he's never listened to any of Peter Atiyah stuff, which so literally half the episode was me like defending Peter Atiyah to him. And I was like, I don't know that this is a productive conversation, but Oh man, so yeah, I find it interesting when people comment on other people's work when they haven't read their work, you know, so where do you fall on the, on that topic?

Vanessa Spina:
The first one, I mean, I have been bringing it up lately on the podcast and how I kind of had it all wrong. And I really thought that, you know, you had to sort of try to balance out all the mTOR, but I learned from Dr. Kurt Escobar, it's really dysregulated mTOR that we want to avoid and not the mTOR from eating protein and doing resistance training. Like that's not the mTOR that has negative impact on longevity. It actually is the opposite. And how there's these relationships that are so complex, like how mTOR even initiates autophagy and everyone thinks it's only AMPK, you know? So I kind of had it all wrong and I feel really excited and empowered to have learned that because I no longer feel like I have to somehow balance out all this mTOR that I'm doing right now because I personally am so focused right now on building as much muscle mass as I can in the years that I can build muscle mass because you get to a point where you're basically just maintaining. And I'm so excited being in this stage of my life. Like I'm lifting heavier and heavier weights, like I'm pushing harder in my workouts, like I'm experimenting with, I mentioned adding in that other protein meal. So I'm now doing three protein meals a day. I'm getting some great results from it. I'm just all about experimentation. So I'm trying this out and I'm going to assess at the end how I'm feeling with it. But I really, really like it. And I just feel like that used to haunt me and now it doesn't, you know? And for years, I was just so focused on like fasting and AMPK and, you know, this is what we need for autophagy. And yet there's so much autophagy that you get from exercise. And you can see it in people. I mean, when they look at the mitochondria of people who are lifelong exercisers, their mitochondria, they retain way more of their mitochondria, much, much, much, much more. And the capacity of those mitochondria is also maintained way more. And you see it in people who work out that they look younger. And I think it comes from metabolic health. And, you know, I was afraid that too much protein and resistant training would age me earlier. What's the word for it? Premature aging, but it's actually the opposite. And I think that's really, yeah, it's something that you saw at me and no longer does. Like I now have a different view of it. And I think there's just a lot of confusion out there on that topic.

Melanie Avalon:
Have you ever measured or do you measure your IGF-1? I have.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I have before I haven't I haven't done a lot of testing lately just because I'm everything with pregnancy throws things off So hmm. Yeah, that's so true sort of waiting until I'm back to baseline back to a baseline

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, that makes sense. I've only done it like a few times, measured that, but I feel like whenever I did it was really high. But then it's like I'm measuring it, you know, I don't know, probably at a time when it would be high.

Vanessa Spina:
Well, I think that there are going to be tests coming out in the very near future that are going to help us assess our biological age based on mitochondrial function and the quality and function of our mitochondria that are going to be really, really insightful because you're going to be able to actually tell if things that you're doing are working for you, like if supplements that you're taking are making a difference. And I know, yeah, we've sort of been circling around this topic for a while, but I'm really excited for those things that'll help measure and quantify these things more.

Melanie Avalon:
I agree so much. Do you have thoughts on the, like the super low LDL APOB and statins and stuff?

Vanessa Spina:
know, I mean, what is your current opinion on on

Melanie Avalon:
Well, basically the summary is low fat vegan people will say that, you know, you want super low LDL and I need to clarify that LDL is there's like LDL C, which is like all the different LDLs, when there's LDL P, which is Apo B, which is the particularly part that can create CBD issues. But in any case, there's that camp, then there's like the low carb higher fat camp where they're like, oh, LDL can be it's totally fine. If it's really high, as long as you don't have inflammation and you have high HDL, then there's people in between like Peter who says, who's also is pro, you know, a diet that's, I mean, not vegan, like, that's more similar to a diet that I would probably follow. He thinks, I don't know if this is the exact quote, but he thinks for the ultimate longevity, I think your Apo B would need to be below like 30, which is only achievable with pharmaceuticals. So like he's on statins for longevity. And he has a history, I think.

Vanessa Spina:
My opinion, because there is also in the keto space a lot of talk and rhetoric around lean mass hyper responders and that kind of thing, I don't think it's a good thing to have really high cholesterol, even if people are doing keto. So I think if people are running into issues where they have really high cholesterol, I think it could be dangerous even if someone is doing keto. But I prefer to cut back on fat at that point and switch out fats for healthier ones. And I say healthier with trepidation because I don't mean to not eat any saturated fat, but to me that's like, you know, if someone is doing carnivore or something and they're eating a lot of saturated fat and they're adding a lot of butter to things and, you know, just adding a lot of fat to their diet, you know, just sticking to eating the whole foods in their whole food form, like whole eggs, steak, you know, maybe having some leaner cuts of steak, but not adding butter to the steak kind of thing, not adding extra fat to things and even switching out some fats for I think like olive oil. I tend to use mostly in my cooking coconut oil, but I don't use a lot of it. Like I use a spray. I don't like, you know, coat everything in oil, even though I eat low carbs. So I do think that, you know, just like you don't want to have really high circulating blood sugar, I think you don't want to have really high triglycerides or really high cholesterol. But I personally wouldn't go on something like statins for that. I would just try to do it naturally.

Melanie Avalon:
We're pretty similar there with those thoughts. I do find it really interesting. I like interviewing because a lot of the vegan people will say that you can't eat animal protein and have, you know, low cholesterol levels and mine's really low. So I always like interviewing them and being like, I eat pounds. Same. Yeah. I'm like, I eat pounds and pounds of protein and, you know, I have really low levels. So that's not quite accurate.

Vanessa Spina:
Did you tell Gregor that?

Melanie Avalon:
I'm pretty sure I did in my lost episode. Oh, did you ever re-record it? No, we're recording in October again. Okay, awesome. It was nice to have like a breather in between because it's hard to like redo it like right away, you know.

Vanessa Spina:
I would be, yeah, I would want to either do it right away, like the next day or have a breather.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. Well, like the next week would be pretty rough. Yeah. Oh, that's so true. Like, yeah, do it like now.

Vanessa Spina:
I feel that way like sometimes and like I'll have I had a guest once that I had been preparing for their interview for weeks you know reading their book really detailed notes and I was so ready on that day and something came up it was definitely something important having to do with their families they couldn't record that day and I was like yeah we need to do this like either tomorrow or in two months because I can't like come back on this.

Melanie Avalon:
It's so true. I'm about to interview. Finally, Dr. Sarah Gottfried. I think we've rescheduled.

Vanessa Spina:
Oh, I love her like multiple times. She bought my keto program. Like when I was first like starting in the keto space, she has my book too. And she showed it to me when I was interviewing her and I almost started crying. She's just so wonderful, not because she bought my stuff. She's just a wonderful human. And yeah, I'm excited for you to interview her.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm really excited because I ran into her at the biohacking conference and she knew who I was. I have interviewed her, but it was years and years ago, so I didn't think she would remember me.

Vanessa Spina:
That's really cool.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I remember I had that moment with the book. It's because I sent it to him, but when I interviewed Rob the first time he had my book on his desk, I literally wanted to like cry.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, it means a lot to you as an author.

Melanie Avalon:
It really does. So, okay. Shall we jump into some things for today? Yes, I would love to. All right. Would you like to read the first question from Nicole?

Vanessa Spina:
So our first question comes to us from Nicole, and the subject is flushing. Hi, ladies. I have a question regarding facial flushing during fasting. I'm a long time faster. In the beginning, I did get facial flushing at the end of my fast. I didn't experience it for a while, but it just started up again. I fast about 16 plus hours, usually opening my window around 230. Every day between 12 and two, I get really flushed, and my face and neck get really red. These are not hormonal flashes, as I have experienced those, and they feel totally different. They gradually disappear after a bit. I'm not dehydrated. I haven't changed anything I eat, and I clean fast. These flushes happen way after I've had coffee. I don't take any medication for hours before. Sometimes they are accompanied by a tension headache. I opened my eating window earlier one day and no flush, but to be honest, I hate not fasting. I plan to keep on doing it. Any insight on why this happens? Some info. I'm 45, lower carb, definitely not keto. Recently, a month ago, was on herbals for an infection. The flushes seem to start after that. I would love your thoughts. There are two emojis of someone really hot. They're flushing. Super cute.

Melanie Avalon:
It's the anger emoji and then like the hot emoji. We love emojis, all the emojis all the time. Well, thank you so much, Nicole, for your question. So there are a lot of things that could be going on here. I mean, it could be things like blood sugar or your adrenals. My thought though, the first thing that came to me, and then especially the fact that you were recently on herbals for an infection and that's when it started. It could be a histamine situation, especially since it's something you've experienced in the past. So basically, his histamine is a chemical in our body. It's released during inflammatory responses, during stress. It's high in a lot of foods, it can be released from the gut microbiome. And some people are just like their histamine bucket gets filled up and they get histamine sensitive and they get symptoms from it, like flushing, honestly, like flushing allergy type symptoms. And so the fact that you've had flushing in the past and then didn't, and then it came again after an infection with herbals, I would bet that you're probably sensitive to histamine and changes in your environment, both externally and or inside of your body are creating periods of your life where it's becoming a thing. And the reason I would guess that it goes away when you eat is because your body's inflammatory response immune system, like the majority of our immune system is in our gut. So once you start eating, it's kind of like switching focus a little bit to your food. If you had some sort of change in your gut bacteria during that infection and with herbals, which is highly likely, it could have created a different balance of histamine producing bacteria in your gut that are producing histamine. The effects of it are appearing during your fast. I mean, a way you could figure out if it's histamine, there are a few things you could do. So I actually interviewed Dr. Becky Campbell on my show for, she has like a histamine diet book. So I'll put a link to that in the show notes. You could try, there's a few things you could try. If you wanted to just see if that's literally the reason, I'm not saying to take allergy meds ongoing, but you could take one for a day and see if it, if the flashes don't happen, the flushing, if the flushing doesn't happen, then it's probably histamine because the histamine would be blocking it. So for example, I mean, you could take a Benadryl that would probably knock you out. You could take like a Claritin or a Zyrtec for a day and see what happens. You could also ongoing try a low histamine diet for a bit and kind of clear out some of that histamine from your system that could have a really, really beneficial effect. And also just working on your gut microbiome health in general could be really helpful. So through your food choices, I don't know if you talk about what you eat, but favoring, you know, a whole foods diet. Oh, you said you're low carb, but definitely not keto. Yep. You know, favoring a whole foods diet, a probiotic I really, really love is seed. I'm obsessed with them. They have a lot of science behind their probiotic strains and I've noticed a lot of great effects on my digestion. And there are certain strains that are histamine producing versus not. And I haven't noticed any issues with seed. So if you go to seed.com/Ifpodcast you can use the coupon code to five I have podcasts to get 25% off, but yes, I look at, I really would bet that this is a histamine thing going on. Do you have thoughts? Vanessa? I think you.

Vanessa Spina:
covered that wonderfully, definitely had the same thought. It could be related to the herbs, especially if that's when it started. And that would be the simplest explanation. So it sounds like it could be something that, you know, your body could still be working through, but I wonder if you could talk to that provider who had you on that and see if there's something going on, or if they might have some insight into that, the practitioner who had you on these herbals.

Melanie Avalon:
What's also really interesting is it sounds like she's thinking it was the herbals, but it also could have been the infection. Like, cause that would have all been at the same time. So, you know, it could have been the infection that caused this change. I really would bet something happened though, with your gut microbiome that is having residual effects from here. And like I said, the fact that you've had this in the past before says to me that you're probably just sensitive to histamine changes again, it might not be histamine, but that's what I put my, my, my money on and oh, a resource. You can get my app food sense guide. It's a comprehensive catalog of over 300 foods for 11 different compounds in food that people often react to and have, you know, reactions to. So things like FODMAPs and lectins and gluten oxalates, it includes histamine. So definitely download that. There's a free trial it's at MelanieAvalon.com/foodsenseguide. Oh, and I think it's like free ongoing. It's just, if you subscribe, you get more features. So yeah, download that, look at the histamine foods, see what you're eating. I would definitely try a low histamine diet. Okey dokey. Shall we go on to our next question? Yeah, sounds great. So our next question comes from Heather. She says, I'm trying to get back to fasting, but I do a CrossFit type gym at 6 AM. That's so early. She said, I tried not to eat before once and I got dizzy after. Do you have any tips?

Vanessa Spina:
I'll be not going to like my tip but my tip would be to eat before you go because I tried and this is something I'll be doing this fall again now that is the fall but when we go on holiday to Greece I tend to do a different kind of fasting I call it circadian rhythm fasting and I have breakfast quite early I usually around seven and then I fast until dinner and I love it and it works really well and so I just want to provide a reminder that there's lots of different ways to fast and I was getting great results I was getting more deeply into ketosis when I was doing that I'm interested to test again this time because that happened the last few times and I could feel it as well as I was testing but really interestingly you know you get quite a lot of time fast did like so if you have a meal early in the morning I guess for you would be like at 5 or 5 30 or something and then you you know your eating window would be pretty short say at the most it's an hour and then you fast until dinner you're still fasting like 22 hours in the day it's still a long time you know a fasting so I think there are different ways to fast in terms of dizziness other thoughts I have are that it could be related to electrolytes so I'm not sure if you supplement with electrolytes but it's funny to me because I know I worked out fasted for so many years and I love doing that and I think a lot of people enjoy fasted workouts but I always felt great doing it so if I had ever felt unwell or dizzy or anything then I would have definitely changed it up so I'm just sort of speaking to what I would personally do if I was in that situation I would try having a meal before which I recently started incorporating a pre-workout meal and I've really been enjoying the workouts I've been getting and so I think it can also you know another thing to think about is also like what is the outcome that you're optimizing for because you might still be able to get there easily even if you have a meal before you workout if that makes you feel better if you are working out fed you're still getting a lot of the like the majority of the benefits from the workout it's not taking anything away from your exercise because if you burn fat more fat during your exercise fasted then you know you're still going to get the similar benefits from burning more carbs potentially while you're working out because you're going to burn more fat later so I think it all kind of evens out and the important thing is that you're doing an exercise and CrossFit is intense so I would definitely probably get dizzy as well if I was doing CrossFit fasted and that early in the morning it's just from what I've seen I have never tried it but I've seen it a lot on social media and it looks extremely hardcore and intense so that would be my suggestion what about you Melanie

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I thought, so I thought you were going to recommend, remember when we had that conversation about eating protein only before a workout?

Vanessa Spina:
Can we talk about that? Yes. And so that was, I had found some really interesting research showing that you get similar rates of mitochondrial biogenesis. A lot of people do facet workouts because of the purported mitochondrial biogenesis. But as I've been talking about in the last few episodes we've done, you know, there was a recent research review done showing that that pathway does not exist in humans from facet workouts. So you, the reason that people were still getting the mitochondrial biogenesis from eating protein before the workout was because of the workout. Just like doing it facet, it was the workout. So doing it fed, even if you have things other than protein, you're also going to get the benefits of mitochondrial biogenesis. It's the workout that does it. So I don't think it matters whether you're in the fed or facet state. And that's something I recently changed my mind on that I believed for a long time this recent research review came out and they looked at all the data in humans and they found that pathway exists in rodents, but it does not exist in humans. So it's really the workout that causes those adaptations. So that's why my answer is different.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, no, thank you for that. It's so, so helpful and fascinating. I'm glad you can speak to it, especially because I, well, I'm similar to you in that I, like, CrossFit is really intense. I applaud people who do it. I personally, I'm not a good person to ask because I don't do CrossFit. I personally just don't like working out in the Fed state at all. So what I would do, which I don't even know if this is an option, and this is ironic because a lot of people would say not to do this, but I would experiment with eating more the night before. I'd be curious what your actual eating window is. You might find that if you can eat more the night prior, because in a way you're eating window, I've heard like this quote from somebody like you're eating window, you're sort of fueling for the next day. So you might be able to find a combination of food that you could eat before bed that would, you know, last and make you feel okay at 6 a.m. I do like the electrolyte recommendation as well. And we have a link if you want free samples from Element. So you can go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast, and that will get you a free sample pack of Element. So check that out. Yeah, I really feel like that's, I can't really think of any other options. Yeah. Anything else? Yeah. I think that pretty much covers it. All righty. So now we have a question from Lisa. The subject is Inflammation in Juve. And would you like to read this, Vanessa?

Vanessa Spina:
Sure. So of all the supplements and or therapies like the Juve that you've tried, which do you feel is best for inflammation? Do you still love your Juve like you did in episode 77? I'm making my way through the episodes and wondering if your opinion has changed since then. Is there a way to search your website for this? If there is, I couldn't figure it out, but we'll keep trying. Thanks, Lisa.

Melanie Avalon:
Awesome, awesome, Lisa. Wow, 77. So many podcast episodes. I was reflecting the other day on just how many podcast episodes has been created and same with you. What episode are you on now with your Optimal Protein podcast? We just passed 600. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. So yes, I still, I love red light therapy. I use it and near infrared. So red and near infrared therapy, which is what the jouve devices are. I use them. I use it every single day of my life. I use it to regulate my circadian rhythm. So I light my apartment with it in the morning and in the evening. I do targeted treatment on my body. It's very rare, but when I do have muscle pain, I, it's amazing how incredible it is. I actually, I also love, I interviewed Forrest Smith at Kineon and he has a targeted, a targeted laser red light device that it's small and you can actually strap it to different joints on your body or you can like hold it places. And it's a game changer for really, really targeted therapy. And Vanessa also has her tone lux devices, which are incredible red light therapy devices as well. So I have, yeah, I have not changed my opinion. I still love and adore red light. I think it's great for inflammation. The, uh, you can use the code Melanie Avalon for discounts on jouve and Kineon and tone lux, I think all the things as far as other things for inflammation. So honestly, so fasting, fasting is amazing for having an anti-inflammatory response on the body. It's probably one of my favorite things, honestly about fasting and then what you eat in your eating window, eating an anti-inflammatory diet for you because different people react to different things. I just think is so, so key. Like that's the foundation for me is the fasting and the diet and then adding on things to there. I think the best supplement for inflammation, the reason I launched Avalon X with Sarah peptase was because of how potently anti-inflammatory it is. It's amazing. It's a proteolytic enzyme. It actually goes and breaks down problematic proteins in your body, which your immune system can be reacting to. And so that's why it can so miraculously address inflammation in so many different parts of your body because it's, you know, breaking down those proteins all throughout your body that might be causing problems. That's why I made my Avalon X Sarah peptase. And again, the coupon code Melanie Avalon will get you 10% off that AvalonX.us. Other things for inflammation, cryotherapy. People often ask me why I do cold exposure and cryotherapy. And one of the main reasons, well, it's mostly how it affects my mood and how it affects my feelings of inflammation. And I've heard a lot of people say that as well. So because people will get out of the cryo chamber before me and they'll make that comment. And there's a lot of studies on that as far as how cold exposure can regulate the the immune system. I feel like those would probably be my main things. What's interesting is my CRP level, which that's a marker of inflammation in your body. Mine's been a flat line for years and years. So I think all these things are working pretty well. I also do take lotus naltrexone, which has an anti-inflammatory effect. I've been on that for a few years. Try to think if there's anything else. What are your thoughts, Vanessa? Do you talk about the anti-inflammatory benefits of your red light device?

Vanessa Spina:
I do. And actually it was amazing because I had this really bad shoulder pain. I had like a really stiff neck and shoulder and I know it's because of sleeping in the wrong position and breastfeeding at night and everything. And just with my kids, like sometimes they will just fall asleep on me and I'll get stuck in a certain position. Anyway, I don't usually have much muscle pain. So I don't really have an opportunity to use the red light for that. So I was like, hey, I have an opportunity to try this. And I literally had tried everything. I had tried cutting out some things I thought could be causing it, you know, some kind of reaction. I thought maybe it was oatmeal or gluten related. I think I mentioned that to you. And then I got a massage and that relieved the pain for a couple hours. And then it came back and it was like that kind of stiff pain where, you know, when you turn your head and you're like, uh, really uncomfortable and hard to not think about it during the day. And I was sitting on the couch. The kids had fallen asleep on me and I had the red light. I had my red light gem, which is the portable one, handheld one. And I put it between my shoulder and the couch behind me and I just did red and infrared for like 40 minutes. I just, cause it's got an automatic timer after 10 minutes and I just kept turning it back on, turning back on. And I got up and I was like, Pete, it's gone. And this has happened to me so many times with other things that have happened, even like infections. It's crazy how effective it is, especially for pain relief. And I think also the warming, the heat, especially with sore muscles. I mean, there's a reason that athletes use this for muscle recovery because I did also think, well, what if I just tweaked it when I was working out? Because I've been working out way harder and way more. It's like, what if I just tweaked it when I was working out? But I think it was, yeah, just some unrelated muscle pain. I was just amazed. And the next day it was still gone and I had it for two weeks, you know, and it was like suddenly after 40 minute session with the red light, it was gone. So I think it's extremely powerful. It might be the most underrated wellness tool that exists. I mean, it's so science backed. It does so many incredible things. Cause even if you're doing a session on say your face for boosting collagen and elastin production and the fibroblasts of mitochondria in your skin, you also have cell free mitochondria that circulate. So no matter where you do a session specifically on your body, you're getting systemic benefits on the mitochondria throughout your body as well. So in the future, I think everyone will have red light in their homes, just like a hairdryer. Like there was a time when no one had hair dryers and now everyone has one in their homes. So I think it'll be one of those things that'll just, at some point it'll be omnipresent in everyone's homes. And we're just kind of on the, you know, the cusp of it right now, sort of some people who are more like into biohacking and stuff have it. But if you have a device, you know how amazing it is. And it's just, again, we're talking about in the last episode, like the different ways that we disconnect from nature. It's just a way of reconnecting with nature because we are indoors so much. Most of us are indoors 90% of the day or more behind glass. And we don't get that red light from the sun that we get naturally when we're outside. And so this concentrated red light therapy and infrared from panels is just, I think one of the most powerful tools for lowering inflammation and for even pain relief in the moment. I don't think it could work for every kind of pain, but if it's muscle related or otherwise, there are lots of different examples of things that you wouldn't even think that it would work on. And it does. So it is, yeah, it's so powerful.

Melanie Avalon:
It's so amazing. I remember one of the first times, similar to your situation where I did have some pain and I put the red light on it and I was like, oh, it's gone. It was just gone. It was shocking. When I first did it, I remember the first time I would hold the light over it and it would go away and then I would remove the light and it would come back and I was like, that's really interesting. Yeah, I didn't wait. Cell-free mitochondria, I didn't know about that. They float around and what are they powering? It's in your blood cells. Gotcha. That makes sense. That's amazing. So how can people get your device?

Vanessa Spina:
you can get it by going to ketogenicgirl.com. I have my collection of red light therapy panels there and there's several different sizes. And then I also have the crystal face mask, which I am obsessed with. And I use it in the mornings because it helps me stay consistent with red light with having a toddler and a baby. It's just really hard to have the time in the day to go sit in another room in front of a panel. But with the mask, I can just put it on and I can still interact. So I think it's a huge benefit to be able to be hands-free from it. But that's the Tone Luxe collection and it's at Ketogenic Girl. And yes, you can get 20% off with that Code Melanie Avalon.

Melanie Avalon:
I told you this last time I got it set up and then charged it now it's ready to go I just have once I get it in my habit. I know I'm gonna keep doing it I need to make it part of my nightly habit. Yeah habit stacking habit stacking. Yes. Yes No, it's really it's really wonderful that you have made that mask Especially because a lot of like the ones I'd used in the past Directly for the face where you had to like lay underneath it still it wasn't like an actual, you know Something that strapped to your face

Vanessa Spina:
Right. Yeah. And I really want to know what you think of it because I think that a lot of them are creepy, but I think that I think mine is pretty cute, but I want to know what you think when you try it on.

Melanie Avalon:
It's so funny. I love it so much. Awesome, awesome.

Vanessa Spina:
I've got my Halloween costume all set so with your mask. Yeah, just put that on be a biohacker. Yes I'm a biohacker just answer the door with that or go to a party with that and I'll be done. So funny

Melanie Avalon:
I love it. I know I should just wear it out like out in the world. Yeah, why not? Let's normalize it. Do they let you in stores with masks on like that? So good question. Is that like illegal? I feel like ever since the pandemic and people wearing masks.

Vanessa Spina:
I think it depends what state you're in. Like in California, pretty sure you'd be fine. Depends where you are probably. It's so funny.

Melanie Avalon:
Love it, love it. Oh, and she wanted to know, is there a way to search the website? Yes, there is a search bar on both. Well, okay, so a few different things. There's ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. And there's also melanieavalon.com/stuffilike. And you can just search on that page for things. And then you can also search the entirety of the website of both websites, their search bars, like in the top, on the top. And the good thing is, because there are transcripts of everything, everything is very searchable. So things should come up. Okey dokey. Shall we go on to our next question? Sure. So this question comes from Jodi. The subject is starting IF and Jodi says, Hi, I just started listening to your podcast and I'm super intrigued. I am a nurse practitioner and very interested in health and fitness. I did the whole 30. And since then, I'm eating a dairy free lifestyle. She says, also a petty free lifestyle. We're wondering if she means paleo. We're not quite sure. She says I could lose five pounds and I would love to keep it off. I work out five to six days a week. I have young kids and we eat dinner around 5pm, making me done eating by 6pm. Won't I be starving the next morning? I mean, I wake up now ready to eat breakfast. Does it take a while to get used to it? Is it bad if you don't do it every day? I appreciate your input on how to start with such a crazy life with work and kids. Thank you.

Vanessa Spina:
I've heard different recommendations for this over the years. I think Dr. Sachin Panda, who's the scientist who really put time-restricted eating on the map, he always says, start with just pushing it back an hour. If you usually have breakfast at 7, then start having it at 8. And then after a while, start having it at 9, start having it at 10. Just push it back. Maybe gradually, you get to the point where you're having it at 10, or 11, or 12, depending on what kind of fasting window you want to have. Technically, according to the international consensus on fasting terms, 14 hours is the minimum. So if you were to have breakfast at 10 AM, you would still be doing intermittent fasting. And if you're closing your window by 6, that's still an 8-hour eating window with a 16-hour fasting window. So 10 from where you are now, if it takes some time to get there, I wouldn't be worried about how long it takes. I definitely think that there's probably an adjustment period. But hormonally, it's not usually a time that most people feel really, really hungry. A lot of people don't actually feel hungry in the morning. And I think part of that is from having coffee in the morning, which has an appetite suppressant effect. But most people hormonally tend to be hungrier later in the day. And I think that that's why intermittent fasting has sort of taken off so much, that so many people have been practicing it in the last years, is a lot of people just find that they're naturally not that hungry in the morning if they're not eating out of habit. But it's definitely going to be different for different people. So I would say, don't worry if it takes you some time to get there, and don't be afraid to get there gradually and slowly.

Melanie Avalon:
I mean, it's interesting that she says she is somebody who wakes up ready to eat breakfast, and it could be that she is one of those chronotypes that actually is hungry in the morning. I feel the same what you were saying, Vanessa, about, you know, a lot of people hormonally don't actually want to eat in the morning. I mean, I know that's me for sure and a lot of people, but something that's interesting is our hunger hormones adjust to our circadian rhythms if we follow consistent ones. So, ghrelin, for example, is a hunger hormone, and it makes you feel hungry, and it can adjust based on your pattern. So, like Vanessa said, if you go slow and slowly change things, it can adjust as well. It could be something, it's kind of like what I recommended earlier, and again, it goes against contrary wisdom, but if you definitely don't want to have a breakfast eating window, you said that you're done eating by six, you could try having a longer eating window in the evening. I know you're done eating with the kids at six, but maybe you could have something before bed. That's another possibility if you wanted to extend the eating window in the evening to make it easier in the morning. And does it take a while to get used to? So, yes, the body, you know, makes these adaptations. I mean, the good thing is you've done Whole30 before, so you've made food choices, which in theory should be supporting your metabolic health and your insulin sensitivity and all the things, but fasting can definitely, you know, take a bit to adjust to. We actually, on a recent episode, we talked about some studies that looked at how long it took people's hunger signals and things to basically for people not to be hungry while fasting. And it seemed in general that after a week or two, people often would adjust to whatever fasting window they were doing. Is it bad if you don't do it every day? Of course not. Like, definitely start wherever you're at, adding something, okay, how do I say this? Adding something beneficial to your life, in my opinion, is never a bad thing. It's not bad if you add just a little bit of it. That's good. And then you can keep going from there and adding more. I do really like Vanessa's ideas about going slow. I would have a reframe around because people often think, oh, life is so crazy, I don't have time to do this. One of the amazing things about fasting is how it actually frees up time. So I would completely reframe that if that's possible. Once you take the time to figure out the eating window that will work for you and plan the meals accordingly, now you're going to free up all this time where you would have been prepping meals that you're just not. So you're going to get time back. It's going to take a little bit of time in the beginning to create the system and think it through and plan it out and try it. But once you connect into that, you're going to get back so much time. It's also almost easier to start. I think it's easier to start fasting when you're busy because it distracts from hunger. I think one of the hardest ways to start fasting would be if you weren't busy at all and you were just like doing nothing, laying around, not eating, that would be pretty miserable for me. So yeah, I think that's a lot of options. Sure. All right. And then we will end with one more question from a different Nicole. She wants to know, what are your biggest regrets? Vanessa, do you have big regrets?

Vanessa Spina:
I tend to not be someone with a lot of regrets because I feel like life is always sort of working itself out for us in different ways. Things that we're ready for appear for us when we're ready for them. And it's sort of, you know, the way that life unfolds, like when they say when the student is ready, the teacher appears kind of thing. But the one forget I was trying to think of was if I had any regret, it would be that I did not continue resistance training. So when I, when I was in my early 20s, I got into a phase when I was doing, I always did a lot of cardio, you know, to just like manage my weight overall. But I had this period of time in my early 20s when I was in university and I went to the gym and I did, I lift, I did resistance training, I lifted weights, and then I totally moved away from it. I don't know why. Like, I don't know why. I would love to go back and ask myself why. I just don't know why. It just kind of faded out of my life and I started doing more yoga. And yoga is great, but it's great for, you know, flexibility, stretching everything. But I wish I had just kept up the resistance training because I would be so much further ahead where I am now. And I've managed to make a lot of progress in the last four years when I really recommitted to it. But now that I know everything that I do about it, I wish that I had been, well, it's two things actually, prioritizing protein and doing resistance training from that time on. I mean, I would be so ripped and jacked now. Like, it would be awesome. I wish I could go back and, you know, it would just be so amazing for my metabolic health to have built up all that muscle and get all the benefits from exercise, all the autophagy. You know, I mean, I would have been really hot all the time. But yeah, that's probably my biggest regret in, yeah, just in life in general. What about you?

Melanie Avalon:
So, I'm really similar to you in that I don't like to live in a regrets-based mindset. I like to see everything as learning experiences and even really hard situations I went through. I always saw them as challenges and knew that I would grow and learn and good things would come from them. And I really like that mindset. And at the same time, I guess if I could change something kind of similar, I wish that I had done growing up. I wish I had done more musical theater, I wish I had pursued that more. And I wish that I had done dancing. I think I would have had a better, I think I would feel more comfortable in my body. I feel like now I'm making up for lost time. It's like I just recently discovered how fun dancing is at weddings and parties and Taylor Swift parties. And yeah, I wish I had done dancing more. And I wish I had appreciated growing up similar to you, Vanessa. Not the exercise per se, but on the diet side of things. I went through such a period of time in high school and middle school when I was haunted by skin issues and trying to lose weight and all those things. And I wish I just realized the power of food quality choices rather than dieting and calorie counting. And I just wish I had realized the profound effect that the food choices have in your body, which I didn't realize. I didn't realize that until I read Rob Wolf's book after graduating college. I was doing actually fasting and low carb before I really appreciated the whole foods type aspect. But yeah, the good thing is every day is a new day. You can always, always do new things and have no regrets. So awesome. Anything else from you, Vanessa, before we go?

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I'm not surprised we have similar. Yeah, not the the musical theater one though. I'm it's it was interesting to hear that and I'm sure if you you know think hard enough there's definitely things you can regret but I definitely feel like you that you know everything is a learning experience it makes you ready for the next thing. Yeah, I love that you share that mindset but I had so much fun with you on the episode and I love the questions that we got to answer so thank you to everyone for sending in your brilliant questions and we really appreciate everyone who takes the time to do that and I'm looking forward to the next episode.

Melanie Avalon:
Likewise, I feel the same. I echo all of it back to you. Thank you so much to the listeners for the questions. If you would like to submit your own questions, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. And the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode396. Those show notes will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And you can follow us on Instagram. We are I a podcast. I am @MelanieAvalon. Vanessa is @ketogenicgirl. I think that's all the things. Anything from you, Vanessa, before we go?

Vanessa Spina:
I had such a wonderful time and hope that you have a great rest of your day. Thanks to all our listeners. You too. I will talk to you next week. Sounds great. Talk to you then. Bye. Bye.

Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com

Original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jul 07

Episode 377: Anti-Aging Tips, Entering Perimenopause, Treating Menopausal Symptoms, HRT, CGMs, Hashimoto’s Disease, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 377 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BUTCHERBOX: Grass-fed beef, organic chicken, heritage pork, wild-caught seafood, nutrient-rich, raised sustainably the way nature intended, and shipped straight to your door! For a limited time go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast and get bone-in chicken thighs, top sirloins, or salmon—for free in every order for a whole year! Plus, get $20 off your first order!

To submit your own questions, email questions@ifpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

BUTCHERBOX: For a limited time go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast and get bone-in chicken thighs, top sirloins, or salmon—for free in every order for a whole year! Plus, get $20 off your first order!

SCHWANK GRILL: Visit schwankgrills.com and use promo code IFPODCAST to get $150 OFF a Schwank Grill!

Study: Enhanced muscle activity during interrupted sitting improves glycemic control in overweight and obese men

NUTRISENSE: Get $50 off a CGM subscription at nutrisense.io/ifpodcast with the code IFPODCAST!

LMNT: Go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase!

Listener Q&A: Wendy - Does [IF] work? I tried it and never lost anything - may not work for everyone.

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.) 

Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 377 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 377 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Vanessa Spina. Hi, everybody. How are you today, Vanessa? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm good. I was telling you before this, I'm really excited because literally, I just read it, another Fox article came out. She heavily featured me. I'm really honored. The article is called Three Women, Ages 41, 55, and 64, Share Their Secrets to Better Health and Longevity. And the subtitle is, For Women's Health Month, Three Mothers and Grandmothers Revealed How They're Defying Their Chronological Ages. And then it goes through the stories of the three women. So it goes through the stories of three different women, and it tells about the things that they're doing for healthy aging, which is, of course, right up my alley. But then, so that's like the whole first part of the article. And then the second part of the article, it says, A Biohackers Five Quick Tips for Healthy Aging. And then it says, Melanie Avalon, health influencer, entrepreneur, and host of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast, where we are right now. And the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcasts agree that women can take proactive steps to slow their pace of aging. And then I go through five different ways that women can help optimize their aging and try to decide if we should play the guessing game here. What's kind of funny is, so the way this went down is yesterday, the Fox editor, Melissa, she reached out and said she was writing a story and would love some of my quotes. And so I wrote out all of my answers. And then after curiosity, I was like, I'm going to ask chat GPT what it thinks I would say. So I said, I was like, is Melanie Avalon, can you like answer this, you know, prompt? And it literally, it was so scary. It listed, I mean, it listed everything I said, almost in the exact same order. So the first thing I put in my answer was prioritized protein. And then chat GPT was like, prioritized protein. I was like, oh my gosh. And then I talked in my answer to her about leucine specifically prioritizing leucine. And then chat GPT included that as well. Literally everything I'd said, it gave a list and then some and that actually gave me further inspiration because it listed a few things. I was like, oh yeah, that's true. So I like added those in my own words. I didn't like just copy and paste. But yeah, so the the five ones that are in the article number one is optimize sleep. So I talk about how to, you know, create a sleep sanctuary to support restorative night tangent. By the way, when you were pregnant with your kids and everything, like how do you, well, a historically, are you a good sleeper? And then did that change with motherhood?

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I sleep pretty well. Pregnancy, you start waking up a lot throughout the night. So I haven't had uninterrupted sleep for three years. I looked it up once and it's akin to night shift workers almost when you're up for periods of the night because then you're also waking up to breastfeed once the baby comes. But before the baby comes, most pregnant women have issues like heartburn and all kinds of stuff, being uncomfortable on their side. I luckily did not, but I did have to just wake up to pee a lot. And then I feel like that kind of starts preparing you for them when the baby comes because then you have to wake up a lot to nurse. So actually when we were at the hospital over Christmas, when Damien was in the NICU, it was the only time I had uninterrupted sleep because he was in the NICU all night. And I was sleeping at the hospital for about two weeks and I actually had uninterrupted sleep for like six hours each night. And I felt Pete and I would wake up and be like, Oh my God, I feel so good because the sleep was so amazing. But yeah, your sleep just isn't the same and it's a season of life where it's very different. But I feel like I'm lucky. I'm getting pretty decent sleep for what, for where we're at right now. And I know it's like a temporary thing, but yeah, why do you ask?

Melanie Avalon:
I'm just super curious whenever I think of like young mothers and things. It just seems like the sleep would be like madness. I just, I cannot. I cannot.

Vanessa Spina:
It's not that bad. I was really... We were both really scared of it. It was one of the reasons I think we held off on having kids for a while because we were scared of the sleep deprivation because of the way people talk about it. But it's weird how your brain adjusts. It really does because if you even get two hours of sleep early in the morning, your brain right away goes into the deepest state of sleep. So you can catch up. So you, instead of going into it more gradually, you adapt and then you actually feel pretty good. I feel great most days. I'm on very limited sleep. Your body adjusts and you adapt and then it's a temporary phase of life, but it's so worth it. Everything else makes it so worth it.

Melanie Avalon:
That's actually really interesting because I was listening to a, an interview with Matthew Walker, which I would love to try to get him on the show. I really, really need to, but he was talking about different studies where people are deprived of certain versions of sleep. And when they get so deprived like that, when they actually do fall asleep, they immediately jump into that stage that they needed. So I think it was mostly like with people who are deprived of REM sleep, for example, like severely deprived of it. And then when they actually did get a chance to sleep, it was like, not the same thing as what you were saying, where you jumped right in, but, but sort of, we said it happens actually with people who, I don't have it, I don't want to misquote this, I think he was saying how like C or like marijuana can affect, can make you get less REM sleep. And then when people come off it, they're probably like preferentially prefer REM sleep, so they'll have like crazy dreams because they're like restocking up on the REM stages. It's pretty interesting. The tips I gave in this were to implement a sleep sanctuary to best support a restorative night, including sticking to a consistent wind down routine and sleep schedule in a cool, dark environment, using a cooling mattress, avoiding late night, blue light exposure, and finding the optimal sleep position are some ways women can achieve better sleep quality. I got inspired by the sleep position because I just did a whole interview on that last week. That was number one. Number two, I said to seek hormonal support as needed. And I talked about the importance of micronutrient rich whole foods in your menopausal years, and at the same time also getting sleep and addressing your stress and reducing your toxic exposure. And then I did say, have you and I talked about our thoughts on hormone replacement therapy? So I did say, my answer I gave her was longer than this. What she kept from it was for some women, hormone replacement therapy may be an option, and then the quote is many women may find that the benefits outweigh their risks. Do you have thoughts on the women's health initiative and hormone replacement therapy? I feel like it comes up a lot in podcasts and interviews I have, like the drama surrounding it, basically.

Vanessa Spina:
I've done maybe five or six episodes in the last year just on HRT because it's so fascinating to me. And also because the data in the Women's Health Initiative has recently been reassessed and they found that actually it was bioidentical hormones were actually protective against breast cancer in women. And it's really important to have the progesterone balancing out the estrogen. But I've had some amazing guests, Dr. Sarah Gottfried. I've had several hormone specialists on the podcast because I wanted to learn about it for understanding perimenopause because it can start as early as a decade before menopause. And the average age for menopause is 50. But for women who have it younger, like 45, that means like 35, you could start having symptoms of perimenopause. And women seem to be having it more and more now, perimenopause. So I wanted to really educate myself on it and I feel like I've learned so much just from – actually, it was just in the last two months most of those episodes came out. So that's kind of been a big topic and I feel very empowered by the information that I've been learning and very – yeah, I would say empowered and excited to have this understanding for that when that time comes for me when I'm not cycling anymore. What about you?

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, really really similar. It's really interesting because I mentioned it before but and you mentioned it what you were talking about But basically the the women's health initiative was this massive study That it was actually stopped Early the takeaway they were giving was that hormone replacement therapy was causing cancer in women and I know like Peter T. I feels very strongly about it. He actually has a really good interview With the main woman who did the study and I mean he completely deconstructs it me more deconstructs it I mean he deconstructs it when he taught when he's talking to her But he deconstructs it more when he's not talking to her It's quite possible that the way it was presented about the the risks of the cancer rates They're like tiny but they were like presented differently like relative versus absolute risk I don't think they even I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they didn't even really correlate to Mortality like it was just a couple more a handful more cases of cancer But not even mortality related to that and compared to like the benefits of women feeling like their lives are being changed With menopausal symptoms or preparing menopausal symptoms being on hormone replacement therapy I find it really interesting too because like you said a lot of the people that we interview do have this opinion But people they take the other of you which is what the women health initiative put out there actually the book I'm reading right now the Michael Greger book. He just had a whole long section on it about The way it was presented as a major negative. So I just think there's a lot of nuance there. I find it really interesting

Vanessa Spina:
Why am I not surprised? My goodness, and he's a man. Sorry, but.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, you know, it's funny. So I was thinking about that, you know, it's so funny because the way he presents it is like he presents it like, you know, that like the system is making these hormones that are like patronizing women, like taking control of women. So he comes off as like, it's like he's freeing women by saying they don't have to take on the risks of hormone replacement therapy. But I just want to be like,

Vanessa Spina:
Literally, the sound of his book hitting the bottom of my garbage can, if I would read that part. I mean, I can't even begin to... What I've been learning specifically from these experts, which a lot of it is new to me, is how bad that viewpoint is for women and how damaging it's been for women. Because women have been afraid of HRT. They're not taking it. They're dealing with all the symptoms when they don't need to be. One of the biggest symptoms is having poor body composition changes, so losing their bone mass and muscle mass. The doctors who are not really very well trained on these aspects of HRT and how it's changed and these different approaches are just giving women the same options. I think ablation is one of the options and going on birth control. Even though birth control has synthetic progesterone, which is the problematic one, they're telling women to go on birth control when they're in perimenopause to deal with the symptoms instead of just offering them bioidentical HRT, which can help most of those symptoms go away. That kind of rhetoric, to me, is really not of service to women, and the fact that it's from a man's perspective, all the podcasts lately, I feel like I'm raging against some just being honest with my thoughts.

Melanie Avalon:
I will say, you know, what's really interesting about it is, well, first of all, stepping back. So I have read other books from other guests, not Michael Greger, who have said similar things and some of them are women. So I don't think it's always necessarily just like the male, you know, view of that. And again, Peter is a male and he's saying the opposite. All of that said, I find it really interesting that, well, especially with Michael Greger, because he's all about like the science and the data. I don't know why he didn't go in and actually analyze the data the way Peter does, if what he does is really analyze data. Oh my goodness, wait, just really quick tangent. I'm so excited when I interviewed him. I'm trying to decide if I should bring this up. I was waiting for, I was like waiting the whole book with bated breath and it's a long book. I'm like halfway through. But I remember, do you remember when I interviewed, I think I told you about it, like Dr. Neil Bernard about his soy study, his soy vegan menopause study.

Vanessa Spina:
I can't remember exactly what it was.

Melanie Avalon:
about. So basically I had him on my show because he actually pitched to come on the show because he did a study on, speaking of menopause, looking at menopausal symptoms in women on a standard diet or a vegan diet with added soy. And they found that the vegan diet with added soy massively affected, beneficially, the women's hormonal symptoms during menopause. So the conclusion was that the soy, that adding soy to your diet, did this. But the setup of the study only compared a vegan diet with soy to a normal diet. There was no vegan diet without soy. So how did you know it was the soy? Like literally the soy could have been making it worse and they could have done better on just a straight up vegan diet, you know? Like you literally cannot make that conclusion.

Vanessa Spina:
at all. Yeah, that's bizarre.

Melanie Avalon:
seems really bizarre. So I was like waiting with beta breath during Michael's book because I was like, I was like, I'm going to be ready for it. I know he's going to bring up this study and I'm going to be ready for it. And then he did bring it up. He was like, in the soy chapter, he was like, this one study found that adding soy, he didn't mention the study, but he's like, this one study found that adding soy to your diet, you know, did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, this is the Bernard study. I know it. And I went and looked at the references and it was, I was so excited. So I'm like, but it's things like that where because he has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of references. Actually, I just knew to wait, look for that because I had so extensively read an interview about that study. So I'm just like, I don't have time though to go check every single reference that he references to make sure it's not that situation with anybody really. It's just hard. There's just like so much information out there and opinions. And it's really hard to get to the truth of the matter, you know?

Vanessa Spina:
know, at the end of the day, you have to, I think, you know, do your own due diligence, draw your own conclusions, you know, I mean, everyone has different interpretations of the data. Sometimes I like to look at the person who's giving me the information and ask myself also, you know, is this someone that I want to emulate? Or like, is there does this person seem like they are healthy? Does this person seem like they have a young biological age or, you know, whatever it is, like, we all have our different criteria. But yeah, it is, it is hard sometimes when people give such opposing opinions on things, I totally get it. And I feel like a lot of listeners could relate to that as well. It's part of why I went back to school because I was like, I just can't, I don't know who to trust, I have to go back and educate myself more so that I can draw my own conclusions and understand how to read studies and do all this because it was so frustrating dealing with all the opposing opinions. It's so true.

Melanie Avalon:
And, and I thought not to go on an AI tangent, but I, I honestly thought when I started using chat GPT that it was going to make this better because I thought it was going to, um, like, just objectively look at studies and things. I think out of all the things I use it for, the worst thing to use it for is finding studies. Every single time I have asked it for studies, it makes up studies or quote studies, but it's not, it's not in there. I don't think it's set up to like go through the journals correctly on the internet because, and then I was listening to an interview about this and they were saying how like some lawyers were using it for a court case and it literally just like made up studies that did not exist, which is really scary.

Vanessa Spina:
Modely concerning. I know.

Melanie Avalon:
I know, just a little bit. I had to do a math problem the other day and it gave me the answer. I was trying to calculate what I had paid somebody over a certain amount of months taking into account like certain days. So I was like, I paid this person this amount for five months and this amount of days starting on, you know, like all these parameters. I was like, how much did I pay her? And it was like, you paid her and gave me a number. And I was like, great. Can you give me the breakdown of how you came up with that? And I was like, sure. And then I gave a breakdown and it equaled a different number. And I was like, so wait, so what's the answer? And I was like, you just gave me two different numbers. It was like, oh, you're right. Let's do this again to make sure we get it right. I was like, okay, this is like not, this is very concerning.

Vanessa Spina:
How can you make so many mistakes? That's wild. I mean, from all of it, I've barely used it at all. And every time you talk about it, it makes me want to use it less, so.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, to answer your question about how it makes so many mistakes, I think there's two main reasons it does. One is what I mentioned before is that it hallucinates. So if it doesn't know the answer, it can't not know the answer. So it just makes up an answer. That is a problem. Number two, it uses predictive, like I was just listening to a podcast about this, like predictive analysis to come up with things. So it's always, it's not necessarily hardcore. I mean, it is looking at the current data, but it's also predicting. And so to come up with its information. And so when it goes on these trades where it's predicting, then it's just predicting the wrong things. But it thinks it's, it thinks it's coming up with the right thing based on what it just did. If that makes sense. Yes, it's very concerning. So back to the study. Number three, this is the one that I gave her as number one. And this is something I know that you feel very passionate about. Let me know if you agree with everything I said, Vanessa, I was actually thinking about you when I was writing this because I was like, wait, am I like, am I recommending the right thing? I was like, I need Vanessa, like in my head right now to answer this question. Okay. Number three, optimize muscle mass. Okay. Please fact check me. Okay. So I said, maintaining muscle mass is crucial for healthy aging, according to Avalon declines in muscle mass and strength are intrinsically tied to mortality, playing a causative role in falls and metabolic issues. She said, I don't think I said causative role in metabolic issues, but oh well. Okay. Here's where I had a question. I said aging typically leads to reduce muscle protein synthesis. Women should pay careful attention to getting ample protein as they age with a particular focus on the amino acid leucine, which stimulates muscle protein synthesis. That's all good, right?

Vanessa Spina:
I think so, yeah, I think I usually say that muscle protein breakdown rates are higher, but I guess you could say it as muscle proteins of this goes down, but I guess it's like six of one, half dozen, the other, whatever hour that's...

Melanie Avalon:
That's so true. That's such a good perspective. Yeah, I gave her more information, but it didn't make it into here. But I was talking about the, like the leucine threshold. And I said, I recommended, I was googling and like in clinical journals, I found three grams for the leucine protein threshold. But then my interview with Dr. Gabrielle Lye, she said 2 .5 grams. So I said 2 .5 to three grams. What do you think is the threshold?

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah. So Don usually heard Dr. Gabrielle Alliance mentor and they worked on a lot of this research together. He says two and a half to three grams, but he says three grams maxes it out. But I really want to talk to Don again, because now that this new study came out with no upper limit on muscle protein synthesis, I don't think he'll revise any of his statements or opinions, but I'm just so curious what he thinks about it. I should text Gabrielle and ask her because I know she talks to him like every day. But yeah, I think the leucine threshold would still be the same, even if there's no upper limit. But I'm not sure if the concept of maxing it out.

Melanie Avalon:
changes is different based on that information. Yeah. You have to let me know if she, what she says. Definitely. I said aging women should aim for a gram of protein per pound of body weight. So do we feel good about that recommendation?

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I think that's, that's a good number for like the mass population. Cause it's, it's usually, I usually say 1 .6 to 2 .2 grams per kg, which is like 0 .8. If you're more sedentary, but if you're a woman who's, you know, doing any kind of resistance training or activity, then that works out to like one gram per pound. But it's like, I think one gram per pound is a good target because a lot of people don't get there anyway, so it's better to overshoot.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Cause I was, I was torn answering it because I know what the official, you know, dietary recommendations are, which are in my opinion, tragically low. I was like, do I need to like go and explain this? And I was like, I'll just throw it in there and hopefully she'll just put it in. And then I said, women can also engage in strength training to further support muscle growth and maintenance. So that was my, my protein one. I'm really happy though, that she included the, uh, the leucine. I thought she, she might cut that out cause I thought she might think that it was too nuanced for the, uh, general population of Fox news. But, um, and then number four, there's only five, so we're almost on number four was monitor essential markers. So I said, what aging women should embrace the agency to take their health into their own hands. And I recommended working with conventional doctors to regularly check key health metrics, such as blood pressure, blood sugar levels, cholesterol, and bone density, along with other markers of disease. What she did not include is my second paragraph also talked about DIY, blood work and genetic testing through online platforms that did not make it into the cut. So now it sounds like I'm saying just talk with conventional doctors. It's so interesting to see how the, uh, you know, how the editing process can like change kind of what you're saying. I mean, I do recommend that, but I didn't just recommend working with conventional doctors. And then number five is something we talk about on this show all the time. It's not intermittent fasting, which actually was one of my points. And she did not include that, but I said, number five, achieve proper glycemic control. So I said that poor glycemic control is linked to a myriad of degenerative diseases from prediabetes and diabetes to cardiovascular disease and cognitive decline. I said that aging women can implement an unprocessed whole foods based diet, low to moderate and carbs, depending on their tolerance. And then the last quote of the article is women can also opt to wear a continuous glucose monitor CGM to monitor their blood sugar levels. So get in the word of CGM out there. That was a lot. It was a nice little, it was a nice surprise because whenever she asks for quotes, I, I never know if it's going to be just like a quote or like what it's going to be. And so to have it be kind of, I mean, this was amazing for it to be like an entire, I mean, it's basically just what I said in a list. So, so yes. Oh my gosh, it's been half an hour. How did I do that? Okay. What's new in your world?

Vanessa Spina:
I tried to make the sugar -free marshmallows. Oh, you did?

Melanie Avalon:
How did it go? Wait, you said you tried to. You tried to.

Vanessa Spina:
Try this afternoon and they make recipes I followed made it seem super easy I always thought that marshmallows are made of egg whites They're not It's mostly water. Okay. What do you think it is? What do you think they're made out of?

Melanie Avalon:
Gelatin and water and like vanilla and shh

Vanessa Spina:
sugar. Okay, you knew. I didn't know. I had no idea. I thought it was like egg whites or something. I had no idea. So that's exactly what it is. So if you make sugar free ones, you basically just do it instead with a sugar free, you know, alternative. So I used a wreath you taught, which is swerve, like basically the confectioners version of it, which I made in my blender and I got it started. And then we really had to go put the babies down for a nap. So you have to froth like whip it up in the mixer. So I had it in the stand mixer and I was like, well, it says it needs to mix for like five to 10 minutes. So I'll just get them to bed and then I'll come back and, you know, put it in. So it was taking a long time to get them to sleep. So my husband, Pete, I was like, can you just go check on it? And then I sent him like the recipe, I sent him some screenshots. I'm like, if it looks like this, then just like take it out, pour it in the pan. Cause I already had the pan set up. Okay.

Melanie Avalon:
important question, where are Pete's skills on the cooking?

Vanessa Spina:
Oh boy. Like, non -existent. Oh. Not existent. Like, he just doesn't cook at all. I mean, he can, because we always tease him. We were dating. He made me like ex -Benedict, and he made all these things, but then, like, he's never entered the kitchen again, so. But he grills. He grills, right? He grills. So right now, I have, I have him, you know, doing all the dinners, which is awesome. Wait.

Melanie Avalon:
Can we do a shout out? Yes. If he was in the US, what grill would he be grilling on?

Vanessa Spina:
probably a schwank grill because that one everyone is talking about it right now and you basically can grill your meat and everything your steaks burgers shrimp everything like restaurant quality so I would love to get one of those when we're back in the US

Melanie Avalon:
He uses infrared heat to get the the perfect crisp char. I'm actually going to um, I'm trying to you said you did in a re -doctor. What's his name? Chafney?

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I'm interviewing him on Thursday.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, you are? Oh, you're interviewing him. Oh, it's upcoming. That was just a coincidence. I haven't actually like dived into his work. All I know is he's a carnivore doctor. Yeah. Isn't his podcast, is it the plant free? Maybe he was on that podcast. What is his podcast? He has a podcast, right?

Vanessa Spina:
All I know is he is a carnivore doctor, and I'm pretty sure he was raised that way without really eating plant food. So that's what I'm really curious about. But my team booked the episode, so I have to do some prep on it, and I haven't done it yet because I have someone else that I'm interviewing tomorrow, one of my favorite protein scientists, Dr. Jose Antonio. So I'm really excited. He just published a new paper on protein, so I've been preparing for that. And then once that is done, I will switch over to Dr. Chaffee, but I know he loves that grill also. And being a carnivore, when you're a carnivore, you really become all about the cooking methods and the different ways to make your steak taste amazing because it's the main thing that you eat. So I think carnivores could do really well investing in some kind of grill like that because then you could basically have restaurant quality steak at home every day.

Melanie Avalon:
His podcast is the plant free MD podcast. Yes. So if listeners are interested, they can go to schwinkgrills.com and use the promo code I have podcast to get $150 off. So that's S C H W A N K grills.com with the code I have podcasts for $150 off. And I think I've asked like an influencer person, right? No, that was pre

Vanessa Spina:
I think I remember posting our engagement on my Instagram as an influencer. I shared like when Pete proposed and pictures of it and stuff. So it was around, it was sort of like maybe a year, but I had already been with Pete for a long time. So yeah, I was not single or anything.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, although actually it doesn't have to be dating, but I always just think it's funny because like dating or just meeting people, I'm always talking about all these things. And then I always feel like at the end, I'll want to give them the codes because I have codes for all the things I talk about and I want to give them a discount. But then I feel like, especially when it's like a new person you just met and you're like going on about like the continuous glucose monitors and all the things. And then at the end, you want to be like, oh, and you can go to neutrascents .io and use the coupon code.

Vanessa Spina:
You just want to share the wealth, yeah.

Melanie Avalon:
I do. So what I do now, I don't do this with strangers really, but if I were to go on a date or something, I usually tell the person at the beginning, I'm like, listen, anything I talk about, I probably have codes for. So just prepare yourself for that.

Vanessa Spina:
Get ready to enjoy the world. Yeah, I love it.

Melanie Avalon:
oh my gosh okay wait i completely interrupted what were we talking oh yeah pete not the best in the kitchen would love the showing grill if he was in the us what happened with the marshmallows

Vanessa Spina:
Yes, so I'm texting him pictures. I'm like, okay, it should look like this picture, step four, which is basically the stand mixer just filled with like a frothy white, you know, as if you were making meringue or something like just filled with like white frothy marshmallow. And then once it gets to that stage, which I assumed it was by that point, because I'd been in the room with them for like 20 minutes trying to get both of them down. And he's like, sends me this picture and it looks like it's kind of what it should be. And then he sends me another picture and it just looks like this, like a bunch of gravel like spread out parchment. So I came out and I'm like, what is this? Like, I guess it just ran for too long. And even if it got to the right point, you're supposed to move pretty fast from getting it out of the bowl and spreading it out. It says that in most of the recipes, but I think it was mixing for too long because it basically just, I tasted it and it just tasted like, uh, like the taste, especially the aftertaste was marshmallow, but the texture and everything was like all wrong. So I have to try again tomorrow and we'll see. But in the meantime, I reordered the truck zero ones because they're so good. They are exactly like actual marshmallows. And until I get my marshmallow skills, marshmallow making skills up to par, I don't know, it's going to take a little while. And they tasted very strongly of a wreath through tall. So which has a very strong minty aftertaste that I don't love, I'm not a bigger wreath through tall person, but that's the one like powdered sweetener thing that I have access to here. So I might try it with xylitol. I might have to play around with like a combination of stevia and something, you know, unless I can find something else, but the person who wrote the blog on it, I think I got it from food dreamer. She has a blog all day. I dream about food and she has a lot of cookbooks out and stuff. I love her blog. Yeah. She's got wonderful recipes and she said, don't try it with other lows. She said, try it with the best she found was Swerve and this other sweetener I had never heard of before. Oh, really? What was it? Do you remember? It was something with a B. I had just never heard of it. So I'm not sure what it is made of exactly, but the Chalk Zero ones are made of resistant dextrin. So I don't think that that's something that I could find. I think it's more of a manufacturer, like confectioners product. But anyway, I'm trying. I will report back and if I do it successfully, I will definitely share the recipe, whatever one that I end up using or playing with, or if I make my own version, if anyone else wants to try them. The other thing is I was like, maybe cause I like putting them in my element of hot chocolate. That's what I have after dinner. It's like a kind of nice like dessert treat. And so I was like, maybe if I just put them in my hot chocolate, I'll just get the taste of it. And then I put them in my, my element caramel chocolate, which I whip makeup with unsweetened almond milk. And I made it for the start of our podcast. And like, I looked down two seconds later and they were gone. Like they just dissolved into nothing. So I just have a very, very sweet chocolate caramel drink, which is fine. But yeah, no floating, no like slow melting marshmallows in my coffee. But it's funny because I don't really, I haven't had sweets or things like that, even like dark chocolate or anything in so long. And I was really surprised as I was testing with my CGM that they do not bump up my blood glucose at all. The Chalk Zero ones, I think partly because I'm quite active during the day, but they don't bump it up barely at all. And then last night I was like, maybe I should test this dark chocolate. I have, I have some dark chocolate, like smarties kind of things in dark chocolate bars that I have for Luca, because if we go to birthday parties or things like that, where the other kids are having treats, like I'll usually bring something for him. So I decided to try two pieces of the dark chocolate. And it was very good. Surprisingly, I was not tempted to have more, which is weird for me because I've always been more of an abstainer versus moderator, but I was fine. I think it's because I was after dinner, I had like, you know, enough protein. I was fully satisfied, but it did make my blood sugar go up. And then when I was reading, I mean, it was fine. It was like a normal reaction, but the truck zero ones didn't. So I was reading on Carolyn's blog about the marshmallows, her recipe. She said, don't use maltitol in the marshmallows because it makes your blood sugar go up. So I didn't know that about maltitol. And that's what I discovered myself yesterday when I tried it. So I'm still having so much fun with the CGM and testing things. I just tried a new sensor. I put one on on Sunday and I'm just going to keep rolling with it. Cause it's been so much fun. I'm learning so much about how my body works. And I'm just been so surprised at the things that I thought I just assumed. I'm like, this is probably spiking my blood sugar. And they weren't at all. And you know, it's, it's really cool to see when you have built up that insulin sensitivity and you are an active person. And, you know, I think I've got a lot of people now doing this, you know, 10 squats every hour since I, I posted about that study. And then I did a podcast episode about it last week. And I've had so many people commenting and damning me that they're doing squats all day long, every hour. So every time I do them, I think of everyone else who's also doing 10 squats and for listeners, this, we talked about it, I think last episode, but this study came out showing that doing 10 body weight squats every 45 minutes in this new study was better for blood sugar control than a half hour walk. And it turns out because you're activating the glute muscles and the quadriceps and producing lactate and the lactic acid is making the glucose transporters of glute glut four glucose transporters go to the surface of cells. So they can take up glucose. So that's what lowers the blood sugar, but by activating the glutes and quadricep muscles, you get this great blood sugar control. So it's, it's way better than doing a 30 minute walk. Because that takes time. Whereas just like dropping down and doing 10 squats. I've been doing it on the hour, just for fun also to test and I'm getting lower average blood sugar scores too. So having so much fun with the, this new Nutrisense CGM. If

Melanie Avalon:
If listeners would like their own Nutrisense CGM, they can go to Nutrisense.com/ifpodcast and use the coupon code ifpodcast and that will get them $50 off a continuous glucose monitor. And if they'd like to try element for free, they can go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast and try it for free. See all the codes, all the abundance. Have you tried the new sparkling element? No, I don't think they

Vanessa Spina:
can ship to Europe yet. I don't think that actually will happen anytime soon. So next time I'm in the US, I'm definitely going to make a beeline to either get some or have some shipped to our place because I can't wait to try it. Have you tried them?

Melanie Avalon:
I haven't tried it, they sent it, so they sent the original box and then they just sent a whole new shipment and it's massive. It's crazy how heavy that stuff is.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, you have to let us know when you try it.

Melanie Avalon:
I will. And speaking of going back to the glutes thing, a big change I personally implemented, I don't know when I started doing this, but I feel like it really makes a difference. And it's something you actually mentioned when you first talked about the glute study, you talked about the importance of like being consciously involved in it. I started a habit where because I used to like when I would pick up something I would bend over at the waist, you know, and like, I would just like lean down and pick up things. Now I typically always like squat to get down. So then you just are like throwing in squats without even thinking about it.

Vanessa Spina:
Yes, yes, I do the same thing like when I'm picking up Lucas toys.

Melanie Avalon:
like squat to get down and then you can like really like consciously squat up like you know like consciously like push yourself back up again from your legs without using your arms basically

Vanessa Spina:
Yes. And I think that's something I also learned a little bit in yoga is just being able to stand up from a sitting position without using my arms. And I think that that's a really good, I think that it's also a longevity test or something is like, if you are sitting, I think Dr. Peter talks about if you're sitting on the ground, how quickly can you get up? And like, how easily can you get up from, from being on the floor? Yeah, he does talk about that. I think it is a name, but I can't think of it right now.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes. So little hacks for listeners for their blood sugar and their health and their longevity and all the things. Just quick comment on the marshmallows. I'm really fascinated by – my one and only time I think I attempted making marshmallows was also a fail. I just remember they didn't – like you said, they didn't feel like marshmallows. Like they kind of turned into just – I don't remember, but it was like sludge or something. But I'm always really fascinated by food things that require both – where there's a big emphasis on time and – or like it'll often be like time and temperature. Like you have to move it from here to here at this time, at this temperature. Like it's basically like marshmallows, cheese, candy. It's like a science. I went down the rabbit hole of the cheese making world. It's crazy. Have you looked at cheese making recipes? Like how to make cheddar?

Vanessa Spina:
I have never attempted it. I have done candy though. I had a candy thermometer. We have one in Denver, and I made peanut brittle, but I made a keto version of it, and it's like macadamia nut brittle. It's one of my favorite holiday recipes, but I had to do that with the marshmallows. You have to get the syrup to a certain temperature, and yeah, it's involved. But it's simple. It's one of those recipes that's so simple. It's like four ingredients, but there's something about it that the recipe, when you read the blog, you're like, this looks so easy. It's not.

Melanie Avalon:
It's kind of like, I feel like I was ahead of the time with my cottage cheese obsession. Like I went through a cottage cheese making obsession and then literally like the next year, do you remember like there was that time period where everybody was making cottage cheese? Mm -mm. Okay, maybe not. And maybe I missed that one. Well, it happened and I was there before it happened. I'm thinking I should repurpose my cottage cheese making video now. It would probably do better.

Vanessa Spina:
I think a lot of people in Europe make more stuff like that at home, I've noticed. But in the US, you're probably the only one who doesn't, unless you have a homestead. Maybe... Wait, you make out of shoes? No, but I see it like people in Italy are just making their mozzarella and they're doing all this kind of stuff at home. But maybe in the US, it's more like homesteaders who are doing stuff like that.

Melanie Avalon:
and tick -tockers when it becomes a trend.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, but like most people probably don't have time because it's like you could just buy it at the store very easily, I guess.

Melanie Avalon:
I made my cottage cheese because I wanted to make fat -free cottage cheese without additives. And it actually worked. All the recipes were saying, don't use fat -free milk, it's not going to work. I was like, I think it's going to work. It worked enough for me. It probably, I mean, it wasn't like restaurant quality, nobody would have, or even grocery store quality, but it worked for me. Point being though, I did that and it was like magical. I was like, wow. You literally watch it transform in front of your eyes and cottage cheese is mind -blowing. And then I was like, I want to make other cheeses. And that's when I went down the rabbit hole of looking at the recipes and I was like, oh, we're not going to do this. Like the mozzarella recipe, it's like, you know, when it's exactly this temperature, then keep it for this minutes and then stir it and then like let it sit and then think about it and then watch it and then this temperature and then that temperature and then move it. And then like, I cannot, it's like potions glass. It's like Harry Potter. So I don't know how they figured that stuff out originally. Okay. Tangents. So shall we end the show with a question? Yes, let's do it. Okay. I'll read this. So we have a question from Wendy. This was on Facebook and it was to a prompt where I asked people, did they have questions about intermittent fasting? She said, does it work? I tried it and never lost anything. Maybe it doesn't work for everybody. And then somebody asked her and they said, what did you try? And she said, quote, everything. Karen commented on that and said, I've only done totally clean fasting. I am post menopause, but stuck with it. I read Jen Stevens book and listened to her podcast, interviewing people fasting while I was getting started. I just stuck with it, hoping it was cleaning up my insights before I would see benefits on the outside. I truly believe it did. My benefits over three to five years have been better digestion, weight loss, not huge amounts, but decent eyesight has improved. Yay. Skin cleared and just feel better overall. I started 16 eight, then moved to 18 six some days and I'm back to 16 eight. Keep at it. So I noticed like a very, well, first of all, love the feedback, Karen. I'm so excited for you and all the things that you've experienced for Wendy's question. So this is more just like a general question. I guess there's a few questions here. One is like, because she said it maybe it doesn't work for everybody. Vanessa, do you think there are some people that fasting just doesn't work for? And also, you know, what about people who feel like they're just trying everything? Like how can they find what does work for them?

Vanessa Spina:
Oh, I just did an episode that came out yesterday on my podcast, which is May 20th and it was with a hormone doctor, Dr. Amy, and it's specifically about that. Like basically when people have tried everything that it could actually be a hormone issue, which is what she found herself. She was a physique competitor and she was about to step on stage for one of her competitions and she gained 25 pounds and she was doing prep. So she was basically doing cardio twice a day and eating like steamed fish and broccoli, and she was, she gained 25 pounds and she went to see seven doctors and every single one of them told her that she was fine and she should eat less and move more. And then she finally saw a functional doctor who tested her and found that she had Hashimoto's. She had basically thyroid disease and she then changed her whole career path and became a functional medicine practitioner herself so that she could help women who have this issue. So sometimes it's, it's not, you know, like if you're, I think if you're trying everything and nothing is working, that may be the time when you would want to go see someone, get labs done, see someone who's perhaps a functional practitioner who can look at hormones and give you a lot of undivided time. She said her, the doctor that eventually became her mentor spent 90 minutes with her going over everything, you know, and trying to, and he was able to figure out what was going on with her. And, you know, you don't know if it could be an underlying physiological thing. If you have really tried every diet, every approach, and you're not getting results, there could be something going on hormoneally that you don't know about that, you know, you maybe just need some support with, right? So I think that's, could be a situation where you want to get some testing done potentially, you know, if you're feeling frustrated and that nothing is working with intermittent fasting. I do think that my opinion on it in general is that it is a stressor to fast during the day and for some people, it makes them feel great because it has a hormetic effect. So that little bit of stress produces like great energy, focus, you know, all the things that people talk about when they love intermittent fasting. But for other people who already have sort of their cup full of stress, that extra stress could be too much and not the right thing. So I do think there are situations when, you know, it's not the right fit for that person, or maybe that person is more sensitive to stressors either at that time or just in general overall. What do you think?

Melanie Avalon:
That was an incredible answer. Perfect timing with your interview about that. I historically felt like my body always really reacted a certain way once I really found the intermittent fasting pattern that worked for me. And then there was a time and point where I was on a certain medication and it literally, like I didn't change anything and the effects from it were so apparent and obvious. Like I feel like it really made me realize, oh, like certain medications, which would create a certain hormonal state presumably can really be a, you know, they can have a major effect where you can feel like you're doing everything and it's not working. And that was a medication, again, not, not hormones per se, but I think it's probably the hormonal effects of the medications. I love that you went there with the, you know, there could be something going on that you just are up against hormonal in your body that is not going to be fixed overnight with what it seems like you're actually doing. As far as I would want to know more from Wendy about what she actually is trying. I would especially like to know, I don't know if Wendy is this type of person, but I do think there, I think some people, especially the people who say like, I've tried everything. I have one friend who's like, really acts like this, where they don't give any one thing enough time before moving on to the next thing, or they don't commit to it enough. I think some people always just, they try something for a little bit doesn't work. So they try something else. It doesn't work. They try something else. It doesn't work without ever a sort of isolating a certain variable that they're testing and or be, like I said, not giving something enough time. So make sure you're giving whatever you're trying enough time. And I also will look at ephemeral fasting in particular does not working for you and you are, you know, giving it time and you are trying things that you think would work. There is a lot of magic in looking at the food choices as well. I think some people think they can just do intermittent fasting without necessarily changing what they eat, which is one of the magics of intermittent fasting is that it does often work for people regardless of their dietary choices. But there's a lot of magic that can happen and potential that can happen if you also look at the dietary choices. And there's so many really simple things you can try, especially paired with an intermittent fasting thing, especially if you haven't made dietary choices before. So it could be as simple as just switching to only whole foods like that can have a massive effect if you're eating processed foods, if you've never worked on changed macros up before. So trying a low carb approach or even trying a low fat approach, which I say hesitantly because I don't want to create like a low fat zeitgeist here. But by that, I just mean a more protein centric, not adding a ton of fat, you know, to your meals. I'm focusing on protein, you know, that's another really huge one. So basically looking at what you eat within the context of intermittent fasting can I think have a big effect for a lot of people. And then like you said, with the, you know, the stress and where people are in their life and like end point in time, I do think okay, so I do think intermittent fasting can work for most people. I do think it probably works better and easier for certain people than others. Like some people just seem to be much more like their body is much more, I guess, open to it and adapted to it and does well with it. Whereas other people, it just doesn't quite fit them as much, even though I think it probably still would work for most people. But for example, like I think it works really well for people like, like me and you Vanessa, because you mentioned earlier in the show how you are a an abstainer, not a moderator. So like, we like, you know, we like food and we like eating when we're eating. And we don't like having just like, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, so you can correct me if I'm wrong. But at least for me, I don't like, it's like miserable to me to do like have like just like a little bit and then like stop like that's just so miserable to me. So the idea of like small little meals throughout the day, just not that just doesn't, it makes me feel so hungry, so unsatisfied. So something like fasting where I'm having all my meals in a shortened time period is glorious for me because I can eat all I want. And then when I'm not eating, I'm not eating and it's just fantastic. Some people do love the more moderationist approach and eating smaller meals. And for them, you know, they might benefit actually from a longer eating window where they eat smaller meals throughout that longer window. So I think really paying attention to, you know, what you like and who you are, I wouldn't want to create like this blanket statement of it just doesn't work for some people because while I'm sure there are some people it doesn't work for. my personal opinion, I think that's a very small percentage of people. I do think most people can find something that works for them. So I just want to dispel the idea that like, oh, like, I don't think it's like 50 -50 that like half the people it doesn't work for and half the people it does. I think most people it can really work for. So for Wendy, yeah, maybe some of that will help. So maybe Wendy can work with a practitioner to look at her hormonal levels, look at what else might be going on in her body, you know, making sure she's giving it enough time. And also looking at food choices within the eating window. Yeah, many other.

Vanessa Spina:
thoughts about that? I think you answered it really thoroughly and yeah I don't have anything else to add but I just want to say you know I relate and I know the feeling of frustration, of feeling like you're trying everything and nothing is working and you know I don't want you to give up hope hopefully you'll be able to you know find a solution and figure out you know what it is sometimes it takes the help of working with with someone you know potentially who can help guide you and figure on figuring out what the source of it is so let us know if you if you do end up working with maybe a functional practitioner or someone else and if you do find something that works for you.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes, yes, please do. Awesome, okay, well, this was absolutely wonderful. So a few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions at ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. These show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode 377 and they will have a full transcript as well as links to everything that we talked about. So definitely check that out. And then you can follow us on Instagram. We are iapodcast, I am Melanie Avalon and Vanessa is ketogenic girl. So I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Vanessa, before we go?

Vanessa Spina:
I had so much fun with you and congrats again on your Fox article and I'm looking forward to the next episode.

Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much, you were so kind. I had so much fun as well, and I can't wait to talk to you next week.

Vanessa Spina:
Okay, talk to you then. Bye. Bye.


Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

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May 26

Episode 371: IF Mistakes, Constipation, Sleep, Snacking, THC, Hunger Suppression, Magnesium, Serrapeptase, Spirulina, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 371 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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SHOW NOTES

REEL PAPER: Get 30% OFF reelpaper.com with code IFPODCAST, plus FREE shipping! (Works on subscriptions too!)

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Listener Q&A: What was a mistake you made with intermittent fasting?

Listener Q&A: Rudy- What do you think about using alternatives like THCV for hunger satiation during the fast?

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Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.) 

Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 371 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is episode number 371 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Vanessa Spina. Hi, everyone. How are you today, Vanessa? I am great. How are you? I am so good. Let's see. This episode comes out. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So when this episode airs on the 27th, I will literally be probably at the biohacking conference in Dallas, which is...

Vanessa Spina:
Oh wow, it's already that time.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, that's so crazy to think about. Friends, I highly recommend if you are into all of the crazy biohacking stuff that I talk about, or if you listen to our other shows where we interview different guests and such, and even guests on this show, the biohacking conference is really cool because I get to finally meet in person all of these different people that I found the show. Like I think this year there's speakers include people like Paul Saladino and Dr. Mercola and Dr. Joe Dispenza, Dr. Daniel Amen, Dr. Sarah Gottfried.

Vanessa Spina:
I would go just for Dr. Joe Dispenza. I saw him speak when I was in college in university and I asked him if I could be his intern. What did he say? He was like yeah he was like email me and he gave me his email address.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness.

Vanessa Spina:
I don't know what happened. I think his like assistant blocked me or something because she like was like Dr. Spence is very busy. And I was like, no, like I met him. He said he said I could intern for him. No one really knew who he was.

Melanie Avalon:
then. That's so funny. I remember my first internship I had, which was it was my dream internship. It was for Jerry Bruckheimer and who did like all the parts of the Caribbean movies and all the things. And was it the HR woman who told me this? I had like no experience. I don't remember if she told me this or if somebody else told me this, but it was the quote of something to the effect of like combat over experience with enthusiasm or like enthusiasm can trump experience. But basically like being enthusiastic and showing up is like you're way ahead of a lot of people.

Vanessa Spina:
positive mental attitude is like everything and just

Melanie Avalon:
showing up. Like, just showing up. That sounds like something I would do. Incredible.

Vanessa Spina:
I was in awe of him. Anyway, that sounds like an amazing lineup.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, and that's just some of them. There's like so many more beyond that. So I'm really, really excited. And then not only are these speakers, but then there's this expo where it's literally all of the brands I talk about all the time. They're all there. So you get to experience the technology, you get to, you know, try supplements, see all the things. It's just, it's really fun. And then there's a dance party, which speaking of I've been thinking a lot about dancing recently. I don't know if I've talked about this on the show. Have I talked about this? So like, growing up, were you a dancer? Like, oh, although, okay, wait, you had an interesting school life. So like, you're schooling when you were young, like in Asia and stuff. Did you go to private schools?

Vanessa Spina:
I went to private international school but I did eight years of ballet and I was like did a lot of dance and theater just like you.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, okay. I'm so jealous of you because I don't have many regrets in life, but one of my regrets is that I never did formal dance training and I always felt so awkward. So did they have like school dances at your, where you went?

Vanessa Spina:
Yes, we had all the.

Melanie Avalon:
So like, did you dance at the dances? Mm -hmm. Okay, see, I did not dance at the dances. I, like, I thought they were so awkward, and I wanted to dance, but it was so, like, socially awkward. And so now I feel like... Okay, so last episode, we were talking about how... I think you were talking about how you were making up for... You said you were, like, making up for something from...

Vanessa Spina:
I'm not going to amusement parks when I was growing up.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes, that was it, not going to amusement parks. So for me, I feel like I have to make up for dancing because now I just love, I love like, like this upcoming weekend, we have a wedding and I'm just so excited for the dancing portion. I feel like I can finally let my spirit out. And so at the biohacking conference, there's a dance, it's based cowboy themed this year. So I'm working on my outfit. All of that to say friends, it's probably too late now. If you are not there right now, but if my code is the same next year, the code is BC Melanie to get a discount on tickets and I highly recommend it. Oh, and this is Dave Asbury's conference. I don't think I mentioned that. So he is there as well. Yeah, that's all the things. Oh, I will say really quickly. So hopefully, oh, announcement. I hope I do this. I hope I follow through because we're still getting the final details, but we are planning to launch my third podcast, the Mind Blown Podcast, June 1st. That is the plan. So that should be hopefully coming out in a few days. We're going to air it on Saturdays. It is with, it's me and Scott Emmons, my fantastic partner at MD Logic. And it's my first non -health related podcast. In every episode, we just talk about mind blowing topics and it is so, so fun. It's so fun. So I'm really excited for listeners to check that out. It's going to be called the Mind Blown Podcast. So subscribe on Apple podcasts and hopefully, hopefully, hopefully we launch in a few days from now, June 1st.

Vanessa Spina:
Okay, before we get into questions, I have to ask you, did you see the video that Dr. Peter Ortea did about how he distains biohacking?

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, how did I not watch it yet? Okay, so many people sent it to me. Okay, here's the thing. So many people sent it to me and it got sent to me during my like wind down time. And I was like, I cannot engage with this right now. Like I cannot watch this right now. And then I forgot to watch it. What does he say?

Vanessa Spina:
It was interesting, you know, because he said that he really thinks that biohacking is like a big distraction to the simple things that don't cost a lot of money, that are science backed, like exercise, mostly exercise. And he said kind of a lot of contradictory things in it, like, he doesn't think that people should. But I agree with his point that it can be a distraction because it's like all these sort of glitzy things like my red light mask, like a red light mask, whereas like maybe just taking care of your skin every day is like really what's going to move the needle over time or like, you know, I can see how some of these things distract from like, just eating well, whole foods, prioritizing protein, exercise. But he kind of was saying things like, you know, I don't really believe we should be focusing on all these supplements, but he recommends a lot of supplements. And then he's the reason I got into like, some aspects of biohacking, like he's one of the him and Dr. Dom D 'Agostino were the first doctors I heard on podcasts talking about keto. He was the first one I heard talking about rapamycin, I listened to every single episode he did on rapamycin. So rapamycin is like, is a huge biohacking staple. It's huge in the biohacking space. I think a lot of his like followers or fans, you know, got into biohacking because of him. So I think he should make maybe a clear distinction between some so in the in this video, who's specifically talking about this one biohacker who spent like $700 ,000 to have this gene therapy done that basically like suppresses mTOR and is going to help him live longer, which okay, is problematic in its own. But he wasn't really addressing that he was just saying, you know, this makes it seem like biohacking is, you know, this really expensive sort of unreachable thing. But you know, that's, that's like kind of an extreme example. And I do agree there are some aspects of biohacking that I think are just like a necessary, overly expensive, like are really not going to do much for you. But I think he could point out those critiques without just across the board being like, I have a disdain for biohacking, like all biohacking, I don't even like the term and I get filled with rage when people bring up the term biohacking, because like I said, a lot of people got into biohacking because of him, because of him talking about things like rapamycin or keto or whatever intermittent fasting or fasting, which he used to be huge on. So I found yeah, like it was interesting because I agreed with one part of it, but the other part of it I was kind of rolling my eyes like, okay, you're saying all this, but you do recommend supplements and you do talk about rapamycin, you do all this stuff too, right?

Melanie Avalon:
It's so interesting. I really think it comes down to a terminology and a language thing. It's like, what do we mean by this word biohacking? How do you define it? And yeah, thank you for saying everything that he said. And it's kind of like the issue with dietary fat versus body fat and how we use the word fat to mean both of those. And so people confuse eating. They think fat makes you fat. Like they're just like an issue. I think terminology and language is so important. And I agree. I think we need more defined definitions of biohacking or we need when people are addressing it to make it more clear what they're specifically addressing. It's funny. I was thinking about it. I'll have to watch that video because I just, I would do anything. I would sell my soul to have him on my show. Not really. I would not sell my soul, but I would, I know you wouldn't. I would go to great lengths. And so I was thinking, I was like, maybe I should pitch him and I should say like, listen, I know this is the title of my show. I will change the title of my show the week you're on it.

Vanessa Spina:
That's probably why he said no.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. It might be. Oh man.

Vanessa Spina:
the video, you will be laughing because he's like, he's basically saying he gets filled with rage. Filled with rage, okay. When people mention biohacking. So every time you email him, you fill him with rage. He's like,

Melanie Avalon:
like he's going to be filled with rage. I mean, I'm just honored that he rejected me that I personally got a rejection from him. That was like the best day of my life. I was so excited that I got an email from Peter, like not his assistant, Peter, saying no. Maybe you should invite him on to say how does he feel about intermittent fasting though? Isn't he like,

Vanessa Spina:
He used to be the biggest proponent of both fasting and intermittent fasting and then he saw one study, I think, where he believed that muscle mass was lost or something, but they weren't counting total body water, so it was probably just water. But he used to be such a big proponent of it and I don't know how he feels about it, because it seems to go back and forth.

Melanie Avalon:
I it just came to me how I'm gonna get him. Yeah, cuz I thought about that I was like, oh, maybe I should pitch intermittent fasting, but I feel like he's So that's why I was thinking what if I literally say listen, I will change the name of my show that week It'll just be the Melanie Avalon podcast that week that you're on it. I Like changed the artwork like I will do everything for you Maybe It wants the mind -blowing podcast launches and hopefully gets takes off. Maybe I invite him on that to talk about formula one Which he's obsessed with I feel like he would do that. You think so? Okay I'm gonna build up that show and then I'm gonna invite him on to talk about formula one That's it. That's it. I'm doing it friends. Okay. I don't know if there's mind -blowing stuff before Mila one. I've never watched it. I'm There probably is we'll find out. Yes, so goals so we shall see how that manifest friends Okay moving into intermittent fasting related stuff So last week in the past three weeks we've been making our way through this really wonderful post in my Facebook group where I asked people for a Mistake that they made with intermittent fasting and there are a few more answers so I was just gonna read through them and Give our thoughts about it. So Kathleen said it's hard to say as if has radically changed my life and health I'm two years in and I'm still making small changes But I've maintained a 15 pound weight loss and medical blood markers have greatly improved Maybe the mistake was thinking it was a quick solution This is a lifestyle a way of living who I am. The first few months were tough now. It is easy I wish I had realized early on to just do it and relax the results years later. It would be worth it. Oh I love I just that's who I just love reading this Kathleen. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, cuz I think so many people Will a yes, they think it'll be a quick solution, which To me I do think it's a lot quicker than like the the calorie counting and the chronic dieting and it actually works So in that regards it kind of is Quick compared to everything else, but it's not it's not gonna happen overnight And it is a lifestyle it is a way of living and like she talks about with just doing it and relaxing I think people kind of they can get stuck in paralysis by analysis, you know If there's information overload and you want to do it Perfectly and you want to find, you know the right thing for you and that can be really overwhelming Like you can just try it and see what works and stick it out and like Kathleen said so many people Really experience benefits especially once you start training your metabolism to easily switch into fat burning Your hunger hormone levels adjust accordingly. So you're no longer hungry during your fast and It's just really wonderful. So I really like that mistake that Kathleen shared So and then we have some more so Ann said not fasting clean Flavored coffee, for example, this is funny because I feel like we don't we haven't talked recently as much about Fasting clean or not fasting clean back in the days when I had Jen Stevens on that was like we had so many questions about That but it really can make a difference having flavors during your fast and things that are giving your body Contrary signals to the fasted state can really think they can really be a hurdle and people really Connecting into fasting and experiencing the benefits and it being easy and people often hold on to these crutches thinking they're making them easier When when you finally let go it can just be really amazing. So yay for fasting clean Holly said eating too fast and too much when my window opens and then she put a little poop emoji I don't know if that's supposed to mean that it was giving her digestive distress but this is an interesting one because on the one hand one of the great things about intermittent fasting is We know that you can see changes incredible beneficial changes without actually changing what you eat or Quote restricting, you know limiting the amount of food you eat all that to say I think people can experience even more benefits when they do make healthy food choices within their window and also Get past the need to perhaps like ravenously like Holly said eat too fast and too much I think especially in the beginning when people are trying intermittent fasting they may Feel like they need to just eat all the things and you know that they're gonna be fasting and they're gonna be hungry so they've got to really stock up and it can be really nice to work through that and become more in tune with A more mindful approach in your window where you are, you know, hearing your satiety cues and not feeling the need to rush through your food and stopping when full. So thank you for sharing that, Holly. Kristi also said not clean fasting. Christine said her fasting window was too long. It was 16 .8. She said, I could not eat the proper nutrition in that time. Now I do 13 .11. I'm stronger and feel great. I'm 56. And I started fasting at 52. Yes. So this is another example of finding the window that works for you. And different windows work for different people. And some people may need to fast a little bit longer. Some people may need to fast shorter. For Christine, she found that she couldn't get, you know, enough of her nutrition in her window. So I find it really interesting when people say they can't fit in nutrition into eight hours. And that's just coming from my perspective and how much I eat in my short window. I'm really intrigued by that. Like, I'm always really curious, like, what are they eating? And is the reason they can't get in enough? Is it because they get prematurely full? Like, are they eating multiple meals within that window? Either way, I love people to find what works for them. But I always am really interested in what people are actually eating when they feel like they can't get enough nutrition within, like, eight hours, for example. Alani said, not listening to my body and being miserable for the last few hours instead of just breaking my fast and eating, trying to do a certain amount of hours instead of listening to my body. Oh, I love that. So it sounds like Alani was doing what we were calling what Jen used to call white knuckling it. So white knuckling the fast. You know, this is something where I mean, if you're new to fasting, you know, in the to do the longer fasting and you might have to, you know, push through and then eventually your body will get more more adapted. But I think it's really important to be intuitive and know when maybe you should just be having a certain fast or when you should just be opening your eating window. And I really love that Alani came to that place of understanding that. Barb said eating too many calories. So again, this goes back to what I'm saying earlier, where you fasting does not mandate that you restrict your calories. That said, you might find that you're eating too many calories in your window. I think both of those concepts can exist. Some people do find more benefits when they do take a look at, you know, how many calories they're actually consuming and they're eating window. And a lot of times what you can do is not so much change calorie counting per se, but just the types of foods you're eating. So, you know, switching to whole foods only from processed foods can have a massive effect on calorie levels without even having to consciously count calories or playing around with macros might have the same effect. So I think there are a lot of different approaches you can take. If you do feel the need to try to consume less food in your eating window for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily have to be focusing on calories. Some people focus on calories as like what they like to do. And that's what works best for them. So again, it's all about what works for you. Colleen says not being able to sleep from fasting and constipation. She never had those issues before she started fasting. So sleep and constipation. It's funny, like for me, fasting helps my sleep so much because I fast during the day then I eat a massive dinner and then I sleep and it just really helps me. Some people going to bed on a full stomach like that does not help their sleep. And on the flip side, some people, if they're having an earlier eating window, they might not sleep well in the fastest state, which that is for sure me, like I cannot sleep on an empty stomach, but it's really interesting because I, Dr. Huberman, Andrew Huberman has been doing a sleep series on his podcast with Matt Walker. I've been really, really loving the interviews and made me so happy. Matt Walker talked about what the studies actually show about going to bed on a full or empty stomach. And he made a very strong case that this idea that you should go to bed on an empty stomach is not accurate. Like basically you can eat before bed and it's okay. I think there was a window of, I don't remember, I'd have to recheck. There was an ideal window where you would stop eating, but it wasn't like hours and hours before bed. It was not three hours before bed, like is often recommended.

Vanessa Spina:
That's interesting. Yeah, I personally find that when I have one meal a day, when I have like my dinner meal as my meal a day, I sleep way better than when I have two meals a day. And I just have, I think because I do high protein, like it's just easier. I don't wake up to pee. Like I just sleep through and I love it. Like I have some of my best sleeps, but I agree with you. It's not the same for everyone. Like, and that's why it goes back to trying different things, figuring out what works best for you. And it's only through that experimentation, you know, of changing it up that you can see when you do sleep better and when you don't.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it was so exciting to hear him say that because you just so often hear all the time, stop eating three hours before bed, stop eating three hours before bed. And he was like, no, it doesn't, the studies don't really show that. And I actually did see a study on my own looking at this and it found, and this actually speaks to kind of what you're talking about with finding what works for you. It found that eating before bed did affect sleep negatively, but only for people that weren't doing that normally. So people who were normally eating for bed, it didn't have a negative effect. So it kind of goes to what your body's accustomed to and what's working for you. So I think adjusting your fasting window and your eating window to best support your sleep is awesome. I also felt super validated in those interviews because he is a very firm believer that we have different chronotypes when it comes to sleep. And some people are just naturally night owls, which I really, really am.

Vanessa Spina:
You're a night owl? I think I would be naturally, but I love the morning. I both love late nights and the morning. They have similar qualities in that it's just quiet. And more than anything, I love a sunrise. And I love being up while other people are sleeping, which is really great in Europe because I'm usually up for like eight hours while everyone is sleeping in the US. But in the morning, it's just such a peaceful, beautiful time, especially right now. Like the birds are chirping. Like I love going outside, having my coffee, greeting the sunrise. Like it's just for me, it's the ultimate experience every day. So I love being up late and I used to do it a lot, but the morning definitely trumps it for me. So I like going to bed early now.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness, I would love to be you. I would love to be that person that feels that way in the morning. I really don't think I, I really don't think I can. Like I really think it's, I do not have a memory ever of waking up early like that and feeling that I was supposed to be awake at that time, if that makes sense.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I was gonna ask, did you ever wake up early?

Melanie Avalon:
No.

Vanessa Spina:
Never. Then maybe you don't know what you're missing.

Melanie Avalon:
No, I know. Oh, like, have I been up early? Yes, I have. I'm sorry. I thought you meant like, naturally, like, in the vibe of what you just expressed. Oh, I've woken up early a ton, especially when I, well, I mean, school. And then when I was doing like, background on all these different TV shows, I was waking up at all different times. I have never had the experience of feeling that way in the morning. And so something you talked about even was he said, if a person like me, like a night owl, if they get the same amount of sleep, but they go to bed earlier and wake up earlier, they don't feel as rested compared to the same amount of sleep going to bed later and waking up later. And then on the flip side, like a morning person, if they get the same amount of sleep, but they go to bed later and wake up later, they feel less rested than if they went to bed earlier and woke up earlier, even though it's the same amount of sleep. So there's something about that, that rhythm. I was the night guard, like back in the evolutionary days, like I was, I was like making sure we weren't being attacked by wolves and stuff. That was my role. I'm serious. I'm joking, but I'm not joking that they think that's the reason that we have these different chronotypes is because somebody needed to be awake at all times for the tribe. So we develop different rhythm. So some people were, you know, awake at different times, keeping everybody safe. But like you, I love that being awake when the world is well, I guess the whole world is awake at some point, but the world that you're in is asleep. And so you're you can just have an uninterrupted time and moments. So yes, that was a whole tangent constipation. A lot of people do experience changes in digestion with fasting might be bloating, diarrhea, constipation. A lot of it can just be from having larger amounts of food at once and not being able to digest it properly. And that's where things like HCL and digestive enzymes can be really, really helpful. I hope to be launching my version of those in the future, as well as looking at your food choices. And also taking magnesium supplement can be amazing for constipation. So I have a full body magnesium blend called magnesium eight. I would take that also specifically for constipation, you can get something like natural calm. Or there's something called mag O seven, which I really want to make my own version of and it's only magnesium oxide and it really helps move things along. So those types of magnesiums can really help with constipation. Okay, Vanessa said, eating chips after her dinner with two emojis, the ones that are like, like, this is kind of sad. I'm wondering if she's from the UK and she's talking about cookies, although it might be chips, actually might just be chips.

Vanessa Spina:
You mean chips, like, chips and fries?

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that's biscuits. Wow. Okay. That's how savvy I am with international gastronomy.

Vanessa Spina:
I only know that because my mom's side of the family is British, so I know like they say chips instead of fries.

Melanie Avalon:
chips is fries, you're right. Yes, biscuits are cookies. And football is soccer. I'm tracking. Okay. So eating chips after her dinner. So that sounds like something where probably was just a comfort habit. And she probably found that, you know, can't eat just one, as they say. Emily said taking a liquid sleep aid at night that had sugar and alcohol. I was reading that at first. And I thought she meant an actual supplement, but she's probably talking about having an alcoholic drink at night. So that was not clearly working for her. Becky said she quit and she gained 50 pounds back after losing 72 stress crept in. So something inspiring I'll say here is I think people can get really nervous or fearful about, you know, falling off the wagon or how will you maintain? And one of the great things about intermittent fasting is it works so beautifully for a lifestyle and for maintenance of your weight loss. And I think people who are accustomed to dieting, they really can dread that, that regain. And I understand Becky did intermittent fasting and did gain it back. It sounds like she, oh, she quit. Sorry, she quit intermittent fasting. So I'm not laughing at her. I'm just saying like, one of the nice things about intermittent fasting is it can be sustainable and you can keep doing it. And it really can help with the maintenance and the maintaining of your, the goals that you reach. And you can always start back, you know, cause I think it can feel really horrible if you quote, fall off the wagon or gain the weight back, but there's always a new tomorrow. There's always that bright morning that Vanessa is greeting in the morning. So I just encourage people not to be too hard on themselves and have grace and things will be okay. And then Amy said the same IF window every day, even before shark week. I'm just thinking about that. The same IF window every day, even before shark week. Oh, wait. Oh, I'm, oh, I wonder if shark week is a code for a woman's cycle that I have never heard of. Let me look that up. Okay. I just learned listeners that shark week means of woman cycle did not realize that for anybody interested in Amy's response, definitely check out our last episode that we did, which was I a podcast episode three 70, because we talked all about intermittent fasting for your cycle. We personally don't do it, Vanessa and I, but there are approaches and Dr. Mindy pelts, for example, has a book fast, like a girl where she talks a lot about this. So if that's something of interest, definitely check out Dr. Peltz's work, check out that other episode we did. I'll also be having Mindy on the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast so you can check that out as well. So there's a lot of options. Sophie said watching the clock, having a rigid window, five years into it, I eat when I'm hungry. If I'm hungry in the am I eat, I'll skip dinner. Instead, I have settled into a natural 12 to 6pm eating window, two meals a day. The weight loss benefits were early in the five years. Most of the COVID and menopause in the last five years happy to maintain. So this kind of goes back to one of the earlier answers about, you know, being too rigid or having these rules or not being able to, you know, not listening to your body about when to break the fast. And I just think it's so important to be really intuitive with everything and know that you can try different things and different things work for other people is like the takeaway of hearing all these comments. And then one last one from Tricia, she says, I truly don't think I've made any mistakes. I've just learned and adjusted along the way. I definitely know my body even better than ever now, now that I've been fasting for almost two years. She said I know exactly how to lose a few pounds if I want to, but mostly now I'm using fasting as a way of life to maintain health and weight and just feel better. And this is so incredible. It's an incredible way to end this whole section. I'm just so happy because I feel like I couldn't have picked this any differently. But basically, yes, that vibe of there are no mistakes. Like you're not failing with fasting, you're just finding what works for you, trying different things. There's always potential for, like Tricia said, losing those last few pounds, making the changes and the experiencing the benefits that you want to experience. So I really, really love that. That was a great way to end this section about the mistakes. Okay. And so a little, little note for the audience. So Vanessa. she has a beautiful baby boy, Damian, and he is a new baby boy. He's crying a little bit. So she's going to be muted and I'm probably going to finish out this episode. We actually had a question I wanted to talk about, which it comes from Rudy. And Rudy asked, what do you think about using alternatives like THCV for hunger satiation during the fast? So I was really excited to dive into this. I had not heard of THCV, but apparently it's a thing. So there are multiple compounds in cannabis, which CBD oil and things like that are now, I think they're, is that legal everywhere in the US? I'm not sure. We've had feels as a sponsor on this show in the past. And I personally love CBD oil. It really helps my sleep, my mood. I've just experienced massive benefits from it. And the reason I really love feels so, so much is they were the first CBD oil I could find that met all my stringent criteria. So I wanted one that was full spectrum that was made with just MCT oil as the carrier that was tested for purity and potency. So I love that. So if you go to, I think feals.com/MelanieAvalon and use the coupon code Melanie Avalon, that should get you a discount. In any case, with their multiple compounds in cannabis that have different effects. And so a lot of people are familiar with THC, for example, which is one of the main cannabinoids in cannabis. And it does have psychoactive effects. And it's usually not present in CBD oils or in very small, minute amounts. So I think feels does have a very tiny bit of it. This other compound THCV is also a cannabis derived compound, but it has different properties. So there's been quite a few studies on it when it comes to appetite and people often associate cannabis with increased appetite and even weight gain. And this is cannabis, not CBD oil. THCV a receptor called the CB1 receptor, which stimulates appetite. So if THCV is blocking that receptor, it could be reducing appetite. The studies on it. So there was a 2009 study that suggested THCV may reduce food and food intake and weight gain. 2013 study found it may reduce glucose intolerance related to obesity. There was also a randomized double blind placebo controlled trial. And they found that purified THCV and doses of five milligrams twice daily for 13 weeks, decreased fasting, plasma glucose, improved pancreatic beta cell function, adiponectin and April lipoprotein a and people with type two diabetes. But there was no impact on appetite or body weight in those patients, which is interesting. A 2015 study looked at a single dose of 10 milligrams of THCV. And this one was really interesting because they were looking at it for a food reward and food aversion. Interestingly, it actually did make people crave chocolate more, which is kind of the opposite of what we were thinking, but it also made them feel more averse to rotten strawberries, which is really interesting. So basically the good food looked better and the gross food looked grosser, but it also didn't seem to affect pleasantness or desire for the food. That's really weird to me. It's really weird that the patients said that the chocolate seemed more alluring and the rotten strawberries seemed worse, but they didn't have any changes in whether or not they desired that food. That's a little bit weird, a little bit conflicting. There was also a 2015 trial and they found that THCV actually might combat some of the negative effects of THC. So for example, it might help with increased heart rate and the subjective feeling of intoxication and verbal recall issues from THC. So basically overall, a lot of the studies in THCV are in animals. There are some in humans. Some of them are mixed. It does seem like it potentially has the potential to reduce appetite. I did look online for sources of this, like how do you get this? And there will be cannabis oils that are sold, CBD oils that are sold that are high THCV. I'm not sure if you can get just isolated THCV. I think you can. Regardless, the question is what do you think about using alternatives like THCV for hunger satiation during the fast? One is that If you are experiencing chronic hunger during fasting and that's ongoing and you're white knuckling it or you're always hungry, you probably need to make bigger changes to your whole approach because when you actually find the intermittent fasting protocol that works for you or the meal intake that works for you, the macros, the lifestyle approach that works for you, you shouldn't be experiencing that hunger during the fast. Or if you do, it shouldn't be a hunger that feels like it's controlling you, if that makes sense. It should be more of a feeling that your body is fasted and could be eating, but it shouldn't be overwhelming and taking you over and distracting, kind of like the feeling that you get when you're on, if anybody knows, calorie restricted diets and dieting in general. So, I think stepping back is that taking a... a broader look at your overall diet and fasting approach is probably a good place to start. From there, there are great tweaks and adjustments that you can make. I'm not saying to drink all the coffee, but for example, we know coffee pairs really well with fasting, helps actually not only reduce appetite, but actually helps, quote, unlock those fat stores. It helps stimulate lipolysis, which is fat burning. So that might be something to try. But then as far as these compounds like THCV, so I don't think the actual, depending on the ingredient, well, that's the problem. It's probably pretty hard to get isolated THCV as just a compound. It's probably often in a supplement or in something. So you would need to look at the other ingredients and see, are those ingredients, do they have flavors? Do they have additives? Because that might be, quote, breaking your fast. The actual THCV compound itself should not be breaking your fast. And if it helps you with suppressing your hunger, I mean, I can't tell you what to do or not to, but I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with using, smartly using compounds to help us achieve our goals in ways that are sustainable and in ways where we are still nourishing our body and honoring all of that. What I get nervous about is relying on pills or relying on supplements or relying on things to power through signals that are telling us that we actually do need to eat or that we do need to rest because I just think it's so, so important to be intuitive with that. So that is my answer there. And I will go ahead and answer Candice's question as well. So Candice wanted to know, what is the difference between the two magnesium supplements you make? Thank you in advance. So back to speaking of supplements. So my Avlonix line, I created it because I am neurotic about what I put in my body and I just want to put the best of the best in. And I really couldn't find for a lot of supplements that I take versions that I felt good about. And it all started with my supplement seropeptase, which is a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. And when you take it in the fasted state, it actually breaks down problematic proteins in your body. And it can really help. I mean, it clears my sinuses like none other. That's why I was so obsessed with it for so long. And actually Jen Stevens, the OG host on this show, she took seropeptase for quite a while to get rid of her fibroids or her hemorrhoids, one of those. It's an amazing wonder supplement and it's a really delicate enzyme. And so all the versions on the market had problematic coatings basically to help with the absorption. So I made a form that has just a cellulose resistant coating essentially that is completely benign. And it's just so amazing. I promise you, if you have allergies, this will get rid of it. Every time I meet somebody who's like, has allergies, I'm like, you need seropeptase. So point being, that was my first supplement. And then I made two magnesiums, getting to Candace's question. So I have magnesium 8. That is a full spectrum magnesium blend. And by full spectrum, there are more than eight magnesiums. But what I mean is it has a lot of different types of magnesium. And most people are deficient in magnesium, really. And that's because historically, our main source of magnesium was through our food, which came from our soils. And our soil is so magnesium depleted today. So like when they measure the soil today compared to times past, I think it's like an 80 or 90% difference in a lot of the mineral levels, including magnesium, which is just really, really shocking. And so a lot of us aren't getting magnesium. And magnesium is depleted by things like stress and exercise and lack of sleep and our modern environment. So supplementing with magnesium is just, I think, I don't like to make blanket statements, but I do think most people can benefit from a magnesium supplement, especially a full spectrum one like I have. So if you take magnesium 8, that's really for everything like your whole body, your muscle recovery, your energy, your sleep, bowel movements, it's all the things. The second form of magnesium I have, so that's magnesium 8. Then I have my magnesium nightcap. That is a special type of magnesium that actually crosses the blood -brain barrier. And there are a lot of studies on it. It contains magnesium 3 and 8, magnesium L3 and 8. And that magnesium has been shown to boost memory, to help with mood, potentially help with sleep. So I love taking that before bed. I think it's really wonderful. So I take both of those supplements every day. You can get them at AvalonX.us. The coupon code MelanieAvalon will get you 10% off. You can also get a 20% off one -time coupon code if you text AvalonX to 877 -861 -8318. That's AvalonX. Can you tell I'm going into my commercial mode? That's AvalonX to 877 -861 -8318. And you can also get a 15% off one -time use coupon code if you sign up for email updates. That's AvalonX.us/email list. And I'm really excited because my next supplement is coming out soon. It's spirulina. Oh my goodness. I love spirulina. So spirulina is a blue -green algae. I don't like the term superfood, but it's essentially a superfood. It's the most nutrient -dense thing ever. It's just basically pure nutrition when you look at the label, and it's high in B vitamins and vitamin A and iron, and it also has really cool things like glutathione and GLA and superoxide dismutase. So it's a really amazing way to boost your energy, fight oxidative stress, support optimal metabolic health and wellness for longevity. And the reason, friends, that it took me so long, because I know I've been talking about it for so long, the reason is because I wanted to have a single ingredient spirulina tablet, and because there are single, well, there are supposedly single ingredient tablets on the market. And so I kept working with my supplement partner trying to create it, and we would create all these different forms. And we could make the tablets with just one ingredient, but it was really dusty and there wasn't good quality control, and it didn't have that firm tablet feel to it. But I was like, it has to be done because they're out there on the market. I don't understand. How can we not do it? The reason is because the ones on the market are not just one ingredient. I tested them, or we tested them. So the reason you can do that is because if there's an inactive ingredient that is below a certain percent, like a very, very small amount, you don't have to disclose it, and you can say it's one ingredient. So that's what's happening. That's what's happening. If you see spirulina tablets and they say they're one ingredient, they're probably not. Again, I haven't tested every spirulina tablet on the market, but probably that's the case. So we are actually going to make ours with a very, very tiny amount of silica, which actually has all of these incredible health benefits. Not that it really matters because it's such a small amount that I don't know how much of it you're actively getting, but silica is amazing for your hair, skin, and nails. It has so many benefits. I actually just, I learned a lot about it when I interviewed a company called Aquine Springs on my show on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. They have a high silica, low deuterium water, which is amazing. I'm actually, friends, if you're wondering if I actually do the things I talk about on the show, I do. Like I drink that water every day. It's so good. I'm actually talking to them right now because I want to order a pallet because shipping's really expensive for it. So I was like, can I just order like a massive shipment and, you know, get a bulk discount and help with shipping? Point being, I learned a lot about the benefits of silica interviewing them. So there'll be a little bit of silica in the spirulina and we finally got the final version and oh my goodness, it tastes so good. I like the taste of spirulina. Some people don't. That said, this, my Avalonic spirulina tastes, I think, objectively way better than anything else I've tasted on the market. It's just an amazing way to get in those, fill in the gaps of this nutrients that you may be missing. It's also a complete protein. That said, you're eating really tiny small amounts, so it's not like you're going to use it for filling up your protein quota, but it is a complete protein, which is super cool. So that will be coming soon. Make sure you get on my email list so you don't miss updates about that. That will be at AvalonX.us/emaillist. We're hoping to launch in July, so fingers crossed, fingers crossed. And we're going to do an amazing launch special and we have amazing pricing on it. I'm so excited. It was really important to me because I know that spirulina on the market is, it can be really expensive. And so it was really, really important to me to make it as affordable for you guys as I could. And so I'm really happy with where we landed with the pricing and for the launch special, we're going to have like an incredible discount that you're not going to want to miss. So don't miss that. But yeah, so this was my first time actually, I think in six or seven years of podcasting, I know I finished out a podcast by myself before for like the last five minutes, but I think this is my first time doing it this long. It's kind of a vibe. I miss Vanessa, Missy, Vanessa. So yes, if you enjoyed the show, you can directly email questions at I have podcast .com to submit your questions, or you can go to I have podcast .com and you can submit questions there. The show notes for today's episode will be at I have podcast .com slash episode 371. I think that's all the things you can also follow us on Instagram. We are I have podcast I am Melanie Avalon and Vanessa is ketogenic girl. Oh, and as a reminder, hopefully we're launching the Mind Blown Podcast in a few days. So definitely subscribe and check it out on Apple podcasts. I really think you guys are going to enjoy it. It's so, so fun. It's so fun. The first episode we talked about the Mandela effect, which is like so mind blowing. If you remember, do you remember friends when you watched the Disney movies and Tinkerbell and the logo, like there was like the White Castle and like Tinkerbell would fly out and dot the I that never happened. Nope. Never happened. If you can find it, a video of that, you'll be, I mean, you probably be rich because everybody's looking for this video and it doesn't exist. So on that note, check out the Mind Blown Podcast and definitely tune in next week. Thank you so much guys. Thank you so much for listening to the intermittent fasting podcast. Please remember everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by podcast, doctors, show notes and artwork, library on a joiner and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Apr 22

Episode 366: Calorie Deficit, Excess Protein, Eating Disorders, Genetic Mutation, Nutrigenomics, Psychedelics, Podcast Reviews, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 366 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

LMNT: For fasting or low-carb diets electrolytes are key for relieving hunger, cramps, headaches, tiredness, and dizziness. With no sugar, artificial ingredients, coloring, and only 2 grams of carbs per packet, try LMNT for complete and total hydration. Go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any purchase!

Cozy Earth: Cozy Earth provides luxurious, temperature regulating, sustainable bath and bedding products made from viscose from bamboo. Go to cozyearth.com and use promo code "IFPODCAST" for an exclusive 35% off!

MD LOGIC: Upgrade your gut health and well-being with MD Logic Health’s Dr.'s Choice Probiotic. Packed with Lactobacilli, Bifidobacteria strains, it's designed to support your gastrointestinal, immune health and much more. Dr.'s Choice Probiotic is tested multiple times for purity and potency, free of all problematic filters, and comes in a glass bottle! Get 10% off sitewide at mdlogichealth.com with code IFPodcast!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

Beautycounter: Keep your fast clean inside and out with safe skincare! Shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter and use the code CLEANFORALL20 for 20% off, plus something magical might happen after your first order! Find your perfect Beautycounter products with Melanie's quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz

Join Melanie's Facebook group Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon to discuss and learn about all the things clean beauty, Beautycounter, and safe skincare!

LMNT: Go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any purchase! Learn all about electrolytes in Episode 237 - our interview with Robb Rolf!

COZY EARTH: Cozy Earth provides luxurious, temperature regulating, sustainable bath and bedding products made from viscose from bamboo. Go to cozyearth.com and use promo code "IFPODCAST" for an exclusive 35% off!

MD LOGIC: Get 10% off sitewide at mdlogichealth.com with code IFPodcast!

Email a new or revised review of the podcast on Apple podcasts and email a screenshot to questions@ifpodcast.com to enter to win an epic giveaway!

Listener Q&A: Sharon - s there a point where you can take in too much leucine?

Listener Q&A: Missy - Is [there] too much protein [for] a 6 hour window?

Listener Q&A: Karen - Melanie’s Weight/Normal Weight

Visual biases in judging body weight

Past visual experiences weigh in on body size estimation

Misalignment between perceptual boundaries and weight categories reflects a new normal for body size perception

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.) 

Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 366 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Panels. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
Hi everybody and welcome. This is episode number 366 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I am here with Vanessa Spina.

Vanessa Spina:
Hello everyone. How are you today, Vanessa? I Am doing great. How Are you?

Melanie Avalon:
I AM SO GOOD. I feel like I'm at this point where there's like so many exciting things about to happen and it's just like the waiting game and then I felt like they're all going to happen at once. That's usually how it happens.

Melanie Avalon:
I know. I know it. It's, like, so, for friends, we're still launching Hope—I mean, maybe by the time this comes out, my third podcast, the Mind Blown podcast with Scott Emmons, my partner and Vanessa's partner at MD Logic.

Melanie Avalon:
So that would be really, really exciting. It's going to be really exciting to podcast about, I mean I love podcasting about health related things, but it'll be nice to podcasts about something completely random.

Melanie Avalon:
And so that's coming and then my avionics spirulina is coming soon. I'm so excited to see how the packaging manifests and the formulation is amazing. And then EMF blocking headphones. I promise they're coming.

Melanie Avalon:
I know I keep talking about them. I am just being really neurotic with the formation of them and I want to make some adjustments. to the actual product itself. So it's taking a little bit of back and forth.

Melanie Avalon:
And then I'm still working on the most exciting thing I've ever worked on. So, so many things coming. What is the exciting things you've worked done? I think I told you about it offline. Have I? I am sure I have.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I, I Think you have, but there's a couple things. I don't know which one. It's in the app sphere. Yes. Okay. With the person that you're really, really excited to partner with.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes, although it's changed a little, it has evolved. So listeners, stay tuned.

Vanessa Spina:
How are things in your life? Things are really good. I'm just, you know, happy to be getting back into, you now, the work stuff. Like I've been lightly working during the maternity leave, which was, you the last few months, but I didn't do any recording.

Vanessa Spina:
So I love recording, so it feels great to be back and doing it again and interviewing again even though my brain is kind of like not what it was before which is kind sad because a lot of my neurons have been reallocated to Buddha and now our second deviant so you know I feel like I'm not I am not always like feeling as sharp and fast as I used to but I think it'll come back and I was just talking to Dr.

Vanessa Spina:
Sarah Godfrey, who's also a friend that I was interviewing last week. And I told her, I'm just starting to like, feel myself again. And with Luca, it took like a year and this time it's only three months.

Vanessa Spina:
And i'm feeling like pretty again, and i' m feeling more confident and feeling that like sort of confidence and risk taking and she was saying, yeah, your hormone levels start to climb again, exactly around three months.

Vanessa Spina:
And I was like, Okay, that makes sense. You know, she was saying, we were talking a lot about estrogen, but she's saying testosterone is a lot of the reason or is responsible for why, you know we feel sort of like risk taking and confidence.

Vanessa Spina:
That's like a whole fascinating thing for women, because I'm just obsessed right now with learning more about hormones, and different, shifts and stages in women's lives. It's so fascinating. And they always say that, you know, we always hear, maybe not everyone's heard this, but I've heard it a lot that when women get much older, they start to care a lot less like about what people think.

Vanessa Spina:
And it's funny, because it actually because of testosterone, where like men have so much testosterone. It's easy for them to shrug off things that people say or think about them. but it's not easy for us as women.

Vanessa Spina:
So that feels like a superpower that like, I'm excited to have more of later in life. Anyway, that's a whole horrible thing. But overall, I am feeling really good. I was starting to feel like myself again.

Vanessa Spina:
And I m glad that it s like so soon after birth because last time it took a lot longer.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my goodness. Okay, so many things. One, I re interviewing Dr. Gottfried next week, actually. I just love her.

Vanessa Spina:
She bought my program back in the day and my cookbook. And she had it the first time I interviewed her, she like pulled it up and she's like, I have your program book from all these years ago. And I remember talking to her back then, like it when I was like unbelievably honored that she, like even purchased my program or like knew who I what is like or what I did.

Vanessa Spina:
But she was just like the best. She's so knowledgeable and amazing. I adore her.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, we actually had her on this show, like forever ago. Let me see how long ago, let's see. So she was episode 101. Wow, that's really cool. So what, this is episode 366, so, you know, 260 something episodes ago?

Melanie Avalon:
It's like four years ago That's crazy. It was for her book, The Brain Body Diet, or Brain body diet. it. So I actually have not interviewed her since then. She was supposed to come on my show for her last book, not the new one that is either out or coming out, the one right before that.

Vanessa Spina:
The Women and Hormones.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. And I've actually read it and prepped it in everything and then we just never actually scheduled, like never got it the books. But then she came out with a new book. Is it out right now? Her book?

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, that autoimmune,

Vanessa Spina:
the autoimmune cure, autoimmune. She talks a lot about trauma, sort of like Gabor Mate style.

Melanie Avalon:
Yes, the auto immune cure. So that's what I'm interviewing her for next week. Yeah. I'm really excited for that. And she talks about so many different things. And like you said, she talked about the role of trauma and autoimmune conditions.

Melanie Avalon:
And I was interested to hear her thoughts on even like the psychedelic world and conditions? Mm -hmm.

Vanessa Spina:
I know it's like a part of her book. I didn't read it, but I knew it was like sort of at the end and part of the God -free protocol at end of book?

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah. Yeah, so she talks about that a lot. Actually, I'm really excited. I connected – okay. This made me feel like I need to work on my travel skills. Turns out that mutual friend – well, a mutual I think you actually know him, but his daughter is a top 50 world model.

Melanie Avalon:
Like if you go to like models .com and look at like top -50 models, she's like there. Her story is crazy. I cannot wait to interview her. When she was, so she had never modeled or anything before and she grew up with like a lot of bullying and people weren't very nice to her and had a lots of mental health issues.

Melanie Avalon:
And when she was 19, her mom, she had a really bad breakup. Her mom took her to New York City for gay pride weeks, like, help her feel better. And she got scouted by a model scout. Within a few weeks.

Melanie Avalon:
She was on runaways for like Louis Vuitton and like all these brands in Paris. And now it hasn't stopped since and that was like four years ago. Crazy. No, I like blows my mind. The reason she wants to come on the show is she wants to talk about her mental health journey and this is how it relates.

Melanie Avalon:
She's started doing ketamine, which is an FDA approved psychedelic for certain issues if it's done in a clinical setting. And so she's starting doing that and it has been completely life changing for her.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it is funny, we did a call to like meet each other and I was talking to her about scheduling for the show and she was like saying how she works like all the time which I obviously totally get. And she was like, yeah, they'll just call and be like you have to be in Paris right now And you'll have like get on a plane.

Melanie Avalon:
Like that's crazy. Can you imagine that sounds fun? That's what my sister said. My sister was, like that. Sounds like amazing. I was I can't I Could not I could not know you I Know I know so it's really interesting Oh, she's also she went viral at one point because some people might remember her from this.

Melanie Avalon:
She like took her shoes off one time because they weren't comfortable and everybody like freaked out because you can't take your shoes off like mid mid -runway. So I will be definitely looking forward to that.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm really interested in seeing the evolution of psychedelic assisted therapy for mental and physical health conditions.

Vanessa Spina:
Me too. I was reading a year ago maybe they're doing some big trials here in Europe and check specifically at this one center. I was like, maybe I should volunteer for this. It was like I think they were using MDMA in their trials.

Vanessa Spina:
And then I started reading the requirements of the participants. The requirements were so extensive, like the amount of follow up, and the number of detailed like records and things that you had to it was just it was having a job like that amount.

Vanessa Spina:
So I'm not going to do that. But it It was just really cool to see that they're doing these big studies and that it's becoming more and more accepted, and it could have a huge impact on the mental health crisis that we're dealing with.

Melanie Avalon:
I think it can be really profound and I mean it is still very controversial and its really, really interesting. I'll just say, because no pun intended, I just encourage people to have an open mind surrounding it.

Melanie Avalon:
Because if you look back at the history of basically why psychedelics were demonized or why, you know, why we have this vibe surrounding them, which may be very negative. A lot of it is very, well, it's a lot, a, lot factors, but a lot if it very political.

Melanie Avalon:
Like basically certain populations that would use psychedelic and certain political times, it was used as a way to like demonize a certain group for political incentives, like hippie culture and things like that.

Melanie Avalon:
It's really, really fascinating, the political history of it. And I also think I want to say I think there's a difference between, you know, using random things recreationally in a macro dosing situation at, without the right set and setting at like a party.

Melanie Avalon:
Maybe you'll still have, you know, profound things happen in a great time, but that's really different than what we're talking about here, which is like a micro dosing, sometimes macro dousing, a lot of times microdosing in clinical settings and, um, we know with assisted therapists and trained medical practitioners and yeah, it's really, really promising because basically, I don't want to make this a whole episode about psychedelics, but it really really interesting what they're finding about basically super fast charge rewiring the brain in a lot of conditions, like because we talk a lot about like the promise of neuroplasticity and a lot times when people have trauma and things like that they have certain brain patterns that are just kind of stuck a certain way and it can take a long time and lot therapy and practices to rewire the brain but it seems that some of these medications kind of open that up and let people have profound changes in their neurochemistry often for the better in a very short amount of time with these substances.

Melanie Avalon:
So those are my thoughts on that. I'm excited to talk to Dr. Gottfried about it. So wonderful. So I will make one brief announcement for listeners before we jump into more fun things. We are still running our giveaway for this show where you can enter to win a incredible gift bag of all the things.

Melanie Avalon:
So if you go to Apple Podcasts and you write a review for us on Apple Podcast and or if already wrote a new review in the past, which we super totally love and appreciate, just update that review so that it will pop to the top and be a more recent review.

Melanie Avalon:
Send a screenshot of that reveal. We would love to hear what you're enjoying about the show in that. Two questions at iapodcast .com, we will enter you into our giveaway. The end of the entry period is at the end of April.

Melanie Avalon:
You will be entered to win my entire avionics line, so that includes my serapeptase, which is one of my favorite supplements of all time. It's a proteolytic enzyme created by the Japanese silkworm. you take it in the fasted state, it goes into your bloodstream, it breaks down problematic proteins so it can help with inflammation, with allergies.

Melanie Avalon:
it's amazing for allergies, brain fog, so many different things that's been shown actually to break down amyloid plaque, speaking of the brain, as well as reduced cholesterol levels. You'll get that.

Melanie Avalon:
You get my Avalon X Magnesium 8, which is a full -spectrum magnesium blend for the body. You will get magnesium nightcap, a special type of magnesium that crosses the blood -brain barrier. And you'll my berberine, amazing for blood sugar control.

Melanie Avalon:
And then you will also get Vanessa's tone protein. Vanessa, would you like to tell listeners a little bit about your tone and protein? I would love to.

Vanessa Spina:
So, tone protein is absolutely delicious, but it also is enhanced with leucine and that means that it helps trigger muscle protein synthesis or building new muscle with every serving and it help you to get strong and get lean.

Vanessa Spina:
And it basically is one of the cleanest protein powders on the market. So there isn't really anything out there that is as clean and as high quality. And I absolutely love it. you can check out the reviews at MD Logic.

Vanessa Spina:
And yeah, it's a great addition, I think, to anyone's routine if they're working on getting healthy and re -composing their bodies.

Melanie Avalon:
So I'm actually going to ask you a curveball question about that. But before that, I will close this loop out. So you will get that my entire line, as well as a surprise supplement from MD logic as Well, so this is like a really good, really Good thing to win, you'll get so many things.

Melanie Avalon:
So again, to enter that, just go to Apple Podcasts, write a review on on Apple podcasts and or update your older review, and then send a screenshot of that to questions at iapodcast .com and we will enter you my curveball question.

Melanie Avalon:
Just because we're talking about the loose scene, Vanessa, I'll go ahead and read a question that we had. This is from Sharon, she wanted to know, is there a point where you can take in too much leucine?

Melanie Avalon:
Cause so she said that she takes amino acids every day, 15 pills a day five in the morning on an empty stomach and 10 more on empty stomache before dinner after working out. She's ordered your tone protein and is super excited and she's wondering if taking tone, protein and all those amino acid will add too many daily lecine.

Melanie Avalon:
She says, is their a cutoff point where leucine is concerned, can you take too much? I've heard that you can. For reference, she's taking perfect amino tablets by Body Health, which have per five tablets, their amino acid blend of five grams, and they have leusine, L -leucin, alvaline L isoleucan, l -lysine HCL, L phenylalanine.

Melanie Avalon:
L methionine and L tryptophan. And one more that has a typo. So can, you, take, too, much leuscine? Vanessa.

Vanessa Spina:
So it's really not something I would ever be concerned with. I don't think it is something that anyone has to worry about, but if you are taking a lot of supplements, you only really need three to four grams total, like at one meal.

Vanessa Spina:
So either at a conventional meal or taking a protein shaker supplement or adding tone protein or something like that to your yogurt, etc. you only need about three to four grams so that's gonna trigger muscle protein synthesis you don't really need to go over that you can take aminos they're good to take pre -workout for some people I don t necessarily think it's needed but it sounds like you know I know perfect aminoes are meant to be supplemental to having whole protein so you take the aminos pre workout and then have tone protein as a protein meal booster anytime like usually I would recommend taking it post workout and perfect aminos has about two grams of leucine for about 10 capsules so even if you're taking 15 capsules you'll have about four to six grams of lucin max so that's really not an amount to be concerned with it's basically just that it is a sensor in your body and once your body senses that you have, you know, above three grams circulating in your bloodstream, it triggers muscle protein synthesis.

Vanessa Spina:
So you don't need more than that, but having a little bit more that also is not a negative. There's also new research study that just came out saying that a hundred grams of protein continuously stimulates muscle proteins synthesis, so you really don''t need that much but it's not going to be detrimental at the levels that you're talking about Sharon.

Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. Perfect, perfect. Okay, great. Shall we jump into some more questions? Yes, I'd love to. So we have a question from Missy. Ok, this was smart. Missie made her title of her question. I have podcast era store.

Melanie Avalon:
Which I love, which is Taylor Swift store, it's clever when people put in titles that they know I will be like, what is that about? There's nothing about the era store in this question. So Missy says, Hi, Melanie and Vanessa.

Melanie Avalon:
She says she's enjoying this era of the podcast. Oh, my goodness. It's like I have podcasts is the era's tour. I love that. That's amazing. I loved it. Missi, you are clever. I Love this. Okay. She said I'm enjoying this area of the podcast, which has also turned me on to Vanessa's optimal protein podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
Thanks for providing such helpful information each week. That's awesome. Oh, and this also turned me on to more of Vanessa's like me personally, after we started recording, I was I've been listening to More and More of your of your show, I was familiar with you before, but I wasn't like, you know, on the regularly listening.

Melanie Avalon:
So it's been wonderful to dive into your work, Vanessa.

Vanessa Spina:
Oh wow, thank you.

Melanie Avalon:
So she said, I am looking to become more lean. And I'm having a really hard time accomplishing that. I'm hoping to try something different after learning so much from Vanessa about protein. Hoping to have a few questions answered surrounding my plan to achieve a more lean body composition.

Melanie Avalon:
I've been IF -ing for five years. I started for gut reasons. I found Melanie's magnesium, which fixed all my issues, oh my goodness, and stuck with IF because I enjoy the way I feel. That's amazing. I am really happy to hear that about the magnesium.

Melanie Avalon:
She said, I am 38 years old, 5 '4 and 130 pounds. I strength train five times a week. I run 14 miles a weak. Almost all my meals are cooked at home, protein and veggies. I have occasional dinners out.

Melanie Avalon:
Around two times the week, I will have a dessert slash treat after dinner. I drink wine socially on average one glass a weeks. Her plan is to count protein macros only, getting 120 grams a day. She will continue her current exercise.

Melanie Avalon:
she says if I'm consuming 40 grams of protein at lunch around 12 p .m. 30 grams of a protein in a shake around 2 p m and 50 grams of proton at dinner around 6 pm are those servings of protein too large for my body to use all of it is that too much protein and a six -hour window do you think this will change my body composition so she doesn't say it but I'll recap so basically from 12 to six in a six hour window, she'll be taking in 120 grams of protein.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that is what she said earlier. She said, sorry for the long email. I just wanted to make sure I gave as much information as possible. Thank you for reading. Smiley emoji.

Vanessa Spina:
Oh thank you so much for your question and for all the kind words to both of us. I feel like super flattered right now and really, really appreciate the question. And the detail that you put into it.

Vanessa Spina:
So it sounds like you're targeting about 120 grams of protein per day because that's sort of the golden rule that a lot of us go by, you know, one gram of protein for a pound of optimal body weight is great.

Vanessa Spina:
I mean, there's a few different calculations that I use, but I think if you are strength training five times a week, it could be adequate for you, but I wouldn't be scared to go over 120 grams if you want to have more than that.

Vanessa Spina:
If you're satisfied with 120g, great. But if you not feeling fully satisfied, I would not be scared of going above that because strength training five times a week is a lot. And I'm not sure if it sounds like you already run, so it's not something new that you are adding in.

Vanessa Spina:
So, the only thing I'd question is, I think it's a great plan in terms of the protein, but if you want to get leaner, adding more protein definitely helps. It can displace calories from other foods, it keeps you fuller longer, helps your body build more muscle so you have more lean mass to fat mass in the ratio there.

Vanessa Spina:
But I do fundamentally believe that a caloric deficit should be created or should be in place if you want to lose some body fat. So sometimes you can just lose some fat from getting more muscle or at least the percentage of body fat will go down because you have a greater amount of lean mass.

Vanessa Spina:
So if we just want a lower your body -fat percentage you could accomplish that. But by getting lean if, you also want, to loose some of fat mass then I would recommend tracking also your fat and carb and making sure that you're going to be at some kind of caloric deficit when you are in that cutting phase.

Vanessa Spina:
So the protein will really help with feeling full and not feeling blood sugar lows, etc. But I do believe that if you want to shed some fat, like some actual pounds of fat then And creating a small caloric deficit, you know, around 25%, I think should be in place if you want my advice on losing some fat mass.

Vanessa Spina:
And I'm not sure, we might have different takes on this, Melanie, so I am curious to hear what you think.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I have the same opinion regarding the calorie deficit in that there has to be, in In the end, what ended up being a calorie deficit, I mean, that's just the law of thermodynamics. So it might not always present that way.

Melanie Avalon:
You might feel like you consciously made a calories deficit because you did factors that are affecting the calories out more than you realize. So things like, again, a high protein diet, we know that that has a really high thermogenic effect, meaning it actually burns calories more to digest it.

Melanie Avalon:
So you, you know, lose some calories in the digestion process based on your own gut microbiome that can affect whether or not you're absorbing calories more or not how your body responds to what you were eating.

Melanie Avalon:
It may upregulate or change your meat, your non -exercise activity thermogenesis. So basically calories that you are burning without even consciously meaning to. So my point of that is that it can look like on paper that you might not be in a calorie deficit, but you actually end up being in one or it could look on a paper like you You are in a calorie deficit, but you actually don't end up being on one for lots of factors beyond what you've actually put in your mouth.

Melanie Avalon:
So that said, I'm very similar. I do feel okay with like a two -pronged approach where like if a person has not purposely restricted calories yet to make a change, they also have a lot of other changes they're going to make.

Melanie Avalon:
And again, it's hard for me to know how much Missy's new plan is a deviation from what she was doing before. But let's say that it is a really big change. I, and not that you need my permission or anything, but I would be totally good with trying this first without looking at the calorie thing and just seeing what this does.

Melanie Avalon:
So kind of like phase one, try focusing on the protein, try having the more protein. Whatever windows you're doing, do that for a few weeks and see what happens. And then if you are not making the progress that you want, then maybe bring in the calorie restriction.

Melanie Avalon:
Or you can do them both at the beginning. But I also think it could be like a two -pronged approach. Also a little hack for people if they're intimidated or overwhelmed by or don't like the idea of counting calories.

Melanie Avalon:
So there's something called the Hawthorne effect, which is basically changes that can happen just on being observed. And the point of that, how it relates to calorie restriction is just starting by you might not even have to consciously calorie restrict.

Melanie Avalon:
You might be able to just start writing down what you're eating and calculating the calories without necessarily trying to restrict, there's a psychological thing that happens where when When people feel like they're being observed or writing down what they are doing and it's being seen, they unconsciously change their behavior.

Melanie Avalon:
So it is pretty consistent in a lot of dietary studies when people are asked to log their meal habits and their calories that they actually start eating less without even meaning to. So I'm not saying that that is always going to work, but that would maybe be even another baby step that you could take as well.

Melanie Avalon:
You could start with the change with a protein, and if that doesn't work, then you can try writing down what you're eating and calculating the calories without restricting. And then if you need to, go to that third step.

Melanie Avalon:
So yes, that's my choose your own adventure map approach.

Vanessa Spina:
I love that, and you brought up so many great points. I love now knowing the name for that effect because I never knew what it was. But it's such a good point that sometimes, you know, just tracking makes such a big difference where you kind of have this other dimension that you know that, that your sort of being accountable to yourself or you know to whomever and it makes a bit difference in terms of you know your choices and I love the idea of just starting out with adding the protein.

Vanessa Spina:
So I tend to also do that with a lot of the people that I've worked within the past is just have them displace a lot of calories or other calories by bumping up the protein percentage. But in this case, I don't know if that's something you've already been doing.

Vanessa Spina:
Like I know what your protein has been, but I love that you brought that up because sometimes just changing that, like you said, makes a big difference.

Melanie Avalon:
I find it so fascinating and I just said this, it is pretty consistent. Not that they'll even be testing the Hawthorne effect but just so many times in dietary studies it just happens because a lot of times, in order to do a study like a randomized controlled trial, they have to have everybody monitoring what they're eating but they will have like one arm of the group calorie restricting and like another arm not and they often find that the arm that is not restricting just because they had to write it all down and add it up, they start eating loss anyways, which messes with the study, but oh well.

Melanie Avalon:
I had one more one -more thought about it. Oh I was just thinking that it's so funny just how not relative it all is with with protein intake but she's talking about you know she consumes 40 grams at once and then 30 grams then 50 grams.

Melanie Avalon:
Like are those servings too large? That's just so small to me. If I just had 40 grams of protein, I would be starving.

Vanessa Spina:
It's also small for me. I think depending on where you're coming from, maybe it's a lot. But yeah, it is also so small to me in terms of what I eat per meal because I like to get in a lotta protein. I'm back to doing two meals a day now and I'd like get in enough protein that I wanna to put down my spoon or fork or whatever I'm using, and I am not interested anymore in food for at least five to six hours until it's time to eat.

Vanessa Spina:
Sometimes the appetite suppressing effect is so strong from the protein that it is hard to get a second meal. I had that effect today. I was like, Pete told my husband, you have to order dinner for you and Luca because I just wanted a protein shake.

Vanessa Spina:
it's just so satisfying but yeah I'm on the same page. I eat a lot more protein than that per meal and that's also why I started off by saying like if you are training that much and you feel like you want more protein like don't be afraid to have more because like I could easily do 200 grams of protein and all the researchers I've interviewed have said that you just burn more fat like there's no detrimental effects to eating more protein, even that much protein.

Vanessa Spina:
If you are fully healthy and don't have any kidney issues, etc.

Melanie Avalon:
I often think about, can you imagine, I just feel like there's so many different like relatively simple dietary paradigm shifts we could have where if everybody in the US just tried it, just the metabolic effects would be huge.

Melanie Avalon:
Like if, everybody just decided to focus on protein for the meal, as like the main macro, like, the effect it would have on people's satiety, on their muscle health, probably on fat loss, I mean.

Vanessa Spina:
I know. I think about it all the time, and I would think it'd be similar to what we've been seeing with the weight loss peptides. Like, it's would be having a similar, sort of massive effect for all these people that would suddenly be feeling full, because protein does stimulate GLP1.

Vanessa Spina:
So you'd be feeling full and be building more muscle and not losing fat and muscle. Like it would have a similar effect in the sense that it would be making headlines like the way that these weight loss peptides have been.

Melanie Avalon:
It's that so many things that if and then if people if everybody wore a CGM a continuous glucose monitor just for like two weeks like if everybody did that. That's my other thing also. I mean talk about the Hawthorne effect.

Melanie Avalon:
talking about being observed. Yeah, so many things. I remember I've read, I have never done this. I heard that if like speaking of the Hawthorne effect, like eating in front of if you were to eat in front of a mirror, that that would have like a massive effect on how people eat.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm never tried that though.

Vanessa Spina:
That would be really weird. I also, you know, heard it in respect to eating with family and friends is something that naturally encourages healthy eating behavior.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, that's interesting.

Vanessa Spina:
I believe that. It's a big aspect of why the Mediterranean diet is so successful for people is because people in the mediterranean tend to eat a lot of meals socially with their family and friends as opposed to like alone.

Vanessa Spina:
And it encourages really healthy eating behavior.

Melanie Avalon:
That completely makes sense. Actually, one of the books it might have been Dr. Gottfried's book. One of The books I was reading recently was talking about I don't think And people replacing that, like not getting that social need, and so they're replacing it with food.

Melanie Avalon:
That completely makes sense.

Vanessa Spina:
I did a podcast just on that note, I didn't podcast. If you were to ask me what, what podcast interview blew your mind the most? In the last year?

Melanie Avalon:
Wait, wait, Wait. I have a question for you. What podcast will you remind the Most in the past year,

Vanessa Spina:
Melanie question like given asking seen this yet, Dr. Ahn, who's doing amazing, life changing transformational work with people who have disordered eating. And he found that there's actually genetic mutations associated with all the main eating disorders, and that he will test the genetics of families.

Vanessa Spina:
He's that's sort of like how he first started doing was like doing these huge data sets. And then seeing that those mutations that are affecting it. So like with bulimia, there was one example, the people who had the genetic mutations that had bulima, their genetic mutations were causing them to not be able to secrete GLP1 properly.

Vanessa Spina:
So that's like a situation for someone with a weight loss peptide, right? Cause you're then mimicking that GLT1 effect. And then with anorexics, he was saying that it was the situation where I have go back and listen to it, but it was that gaining fat was really bad for them because they can't actually process the fat in a way and the genetic mutation was preventing them from being able to burn fat.

Vanessa Spina:
So it gave them this underlying subconscious fear of eating fat or gaining fat, and he was working with all these people doing these tests and figuring out, well, it's not in his opinion because he also worked in psychiatry like he's an incredible doctor incredible pedigree just worked at all these amazing institutions with like household names and he said you know they always were sort of explaining these eating disorders through like a mental issue or some kind of like mental like say for example like it being about control or being this or that and And he was saying it's not.

Vanessa Spina:
It's just a genetic mutation. And once you figure that out, it is very easy to solve because in his opinion, you know, you just have to have the right strategy for it. But it blew my mind because then he would go back.

Vanessa Spina:
If he found someone that had an eating disorder, he'd go and he test the family. And the families would all have these same mutations in most situations. So it was just amazing what we can learn from testing our genetics and the things that we don't know because we have these, you know, the future of medicine is this like precision medicine that's personalized based on knowledge.

Vanessa Spina:
For example, of your things like people call SNPs like your single nucleotide polymorphisms, like these are some examples that could have like huge effects on your life, on someone's life without them knowing, so yeah, that blew my mind the most of all the interviews I've done this year.

Melanie Avalon:
No, no, That's so amazing. How did you find him again? Did you find Him?

Vanessa Spina:
So there's a podcast I listen to called The Lab Report and I think it's maybe Genova Therapeutics and they do like a lot of metabolomics and all kinds of stuff and so they have they interview guests on their podcast and they talk about you know metabolomics and the different studies that they run so he was using at one point their labs to run some of these studies so they interviewed him so it was kind of like very random sort of thing but I I love finding guests like that who I haven't heard of before, I hadn't seen their work before and I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're doing amazing stuff.

Vanessa Spina:
And no one really knows about it.

Melanie Avalon:
That's amazing. That something actually I wanted to comment on about your podcast that I loved is, you bring on people like so many, you brought on a lot of researchers and scientists and you find all these people.

Melanie Avalon:
And I find it really interesting Because when people have a show, it's like their baby and you get to choose who you have on and showcase what you want to showcase and explore what to explore and I just appreciate your guest lineup.

Melanie Avalon:
I like what your choose for it.

Vanessa Spina:
Aw, thank you. That's the best compliment. Thank you so much. I'm serious. I could compliment your podcast all day long but we'd be here for another hour or something. Stop it! We're like 30 minutes.

Vanessa Spina:
were just like, and then you had this guest and you guessed.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I had one more comment about that. Oh, I'm actually interviewing, I am excited. Next week, I m interviewing Matt and Wade from Bioptimizers. Do you know them?

Vanessa Spina:
I know all of them. Yes, I've been working with them for years and I just think they are amazing. I think I first, first heard about them through you. We had a podcast years ago with them about digestive enzymes, and I had never heard of them before and it got me into digestive enzymes like a huge way and still use them every day, so.

Melanie Avalon:
That's amazing. Yeah, I love them. I think they've actually, they hold the record for being collectively on my shows the most of any, when they come on next week, it'll be like maybe their sixth time collectively, but their new book is massive.

Melanie Avalon:
It's so big. I'm really excited to interview them. The reason I bring it up, though, is I am almost done with it and one of the last chapters is all about nutrigenomics and all the connections between all these different genes and dietary effects and lifestyle effects.

Melanie Avalon:
They're talking, for example, about fasting and bringing it back and how basically certain genes can make fasting more appropriate for certain populations. So like the Mediterranean diet, like people who live like in a Mediterranean culture, this is not to scare anybody away from fasting.

Melanie Avalon:
I think fasting can work for most people, but people with like a mediterranean background like that population was eating more abundantly, more consistently compared to like Caucasians coming from like, you know, places with winters and who went through more periods of food scarcity, they might be more adapted to fasting.

Melanie Avalon:
So I thought that was like genetically. Yeah, it's fascinating. It totally, totally makes sense. And then there's so many different genes involving like muscle and all right. Shall we go on to our next question?

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah. This question from Karen, actually I saw this pop up in the emails because I was reading the giveaway entries, and I remember, I think it was a few weeks ago or something, and i saw this woman's email too, so I'm glad you included it in here.

Vanessa Spina:
Okay, Karen Lesko says, here is my updated review.

Melanie Avalon:
I'll just clarify really quickly so that they haven't understand. I know you just said it. So basically Karen, she submitted a review for that giveaway that we mentioned earlier. So friends just another plug to enter that giveaway.

Melanie Avalon:
So she sent the review and then she Added this little note.

Vanessa Spina:
Yes. Okay. Thank you for yeah for clarifying that So here is my updated review as part of updating my review I could not help but see a bunch of new one -star reviews claiming that Melanie is anorexic Melanie, I feel that you should address this somehow.

Vanessa Spina:
You don't have to acknowledge the reviews, but you could address the perspective that people are used to seeing overweight people and think normal weight people are too thin. Melanie if you think that you are to thin you can address that as well but you seem to have a similar body type to Maria Emmerich and she has mentioned that people think she is too thin and that she talks about it.

Vanessa Spina:
This is just my perspective.

Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. Thank you, Karen, for writing this in. Same as Vanessa. I saw this and I was like, oh, this is something... I'm really glad that she added this. And I really would love to talk about it a little bit.

Melanie Avalon:
So I've been a very similar way for about a decade, probably over a decade. It's really interesting in social media how... And, I think we might have talked about this before on the show, but for whatever reason, like sometimes people will latch on to a picture or something and make a comment like this and then start a train of people making similar comments and it's always very interesting to see how people approach other people about body weight related things, just in society in general.

Melanie Avalon:
I remember though at one point there was one picture and for what ever reason lots of people were getting a little bit intense about it and one person commented and they were like they said like that they were thinking the same thing about my weight but then they went they said they wouldn't scroll back through all my pictures like the beginning of my Instagram and they realized I actually had been the way for like, that long.

Melanie Avalon:
So yes, so this is me like the song by Kesha. I love what Karen said about the perspective of everything and I actually went and did some research on this and i found so there's actually a lot of research on this.

Melanie Avalon:
It was a thing where I was like, I wonder if this is a topic where people are talking about it, or if just this just in my head. So I found a lot of research articles, I'll put links to them in the show notes.

Melanie Avalon:
But they're basically about the psychology of how we perceive body size. And before I go back into that, I will say yes, I am very thin, and I'm a very similar type to Maria Emmerich. But I'm not anorexic and I, I am very open with what I eat and my fasting pattern and everything.

Melanie Avalon:
And that's like what i've been doing. It's what been I've doing for years and years. I love it. That's my answer to that. But for these psychology, different articles that I read. So basically to summarize all of them, like one of the I really like the way it started like, the very beginning of it is said combating the current global epidemic of obesity requires that people have a realistic understanding of what a healthy body size looks like.

Melanie Avalon:
And then it went in and they basically asked people of different genders and different races to rate people with different sizes about whether or not they were underweight, normal weight, overweight, obese.

Melanie Avalon:
And they found that it was specific to gender and races as to how people perceived people, which was interesting. And that specific study, for example, they found that people tended to make more errors for male bodies between leaner to bigger, particularly they often would underestimate.

Melanie Avalon:
So basically with males, if males were overweight, people would think that they were more of a normal weight. And then they said that basically overweight male bodies are now perceived as part of an expanded normal.

Melanie Avalon:
I wish there had been females because that would have been in my favor with this question, but it was not. It was the males where they found that. But basically that the perceptual boundary of normal weight has become wider than the recognized BMI category for males.

Melanie Avalon:
They found for females, participants consistently miscategorized underweight bodies as normal while still accurately categorizing normal female bodies. So again, this is actually does not support the idea that we see normal people as underweight.

Melanie Avalon:
This is a little bit different, but I think it still speaks to how we basically see weight differently based on society and culture. And another really, really interesting article, the way I found that one was linked through another one.

Melanie Avalon:
And the one that was before that, was basically they did a test where they had people look at lineups or like lots of different images of people and they had them rate them if they were, again, they dragged a slider.

Melanie Avalon:
Like they drag the slider more towards the underweight side or more toward the obese side to categorize the image. And they found it was highly affected by the image that was shown right before. So if you saw a overweight person before, and then you also saw an overweight person, but the person before like was more overweight, they would possibly categorize that second overweight person as like a normal weight.

Melanie Avalon:
So basically like what you just saw can influence what your seeing in the world. And it went all different directions as far as what they had just seen. They still found that people were like in a ballpark, correct?

Melanie Avalon:
But it affected like the subtle nuances of it. And then I found another study that found that people's weight actually affected how they perceived other people weight. And just going in all different directions, like basically, there's so much literature on this where it makes you really question reality and how we see everything.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, then, I got into rabbit tangent hall just because it was related topics that came up. This was not related to the question. Then I found a study talking about people who are overweight actually have different site perception for space, which I thought was interesting, but that might be a completely different mechanism.

Melanie Avalon:
Point being, bringing it back. I do think that because the resting point of weight today in society, like we do have an obesity epidemic. So like the current obesity stats, well, this is going back to 2016.

Melanie Avalon:
So, I probably need to find something more current, but like in 2016, there was more than 1 .9 billion adults that were obese, sorry, that we're overweight and 650 million obese. At that time, around 40% of adults were considered to be obese in the US, 40%.

Melanie Avalon:
And that was like a while ago. That's almost half of people. And then childhood obesity, in 2016, there was 41 million children under the age of five who were overweight or obese, and then, you know, it's just continued to rise since then.

Melanie Avalon:
And it is really interesting to look back at the patterns and see what the average weights were, like in the 1920s, 1930s ,40s and 50s up until today. And to looks at those charts is, really really, interesting.

Melanie Avalon:
And its really interested also to go, I know we've talked, we might have talked about this before, but I've heard lots of people talk about it on different shows. Like, if you go Google, like, beach photos of people in prior decades, like 20, you know, 30s, well, maybe like 40s?

Melanie Avalon:
50s. 60s even. People just look different. Like people look different and this is not, this, none of this is judgmental. I'm just trying to, it's interesting because I actually did an episode recently on my show with the author of a book, Christian Madsberg was his name.

Melanie Avalon:
Mad, Madspie? He's Danish. He wrote a all about like how can we actually see the world and perceive data without preconceived notions and biases, it was really, really fascinating. But basically, the people in the word looked, when it comes to weight, they look different today.

Melanie Avalon:
The normal set point for weight is significantly higher than it used to be. And so I don't find it at all surprising, again, yes, I know I'm very thin. I don't find it all surprising that I probably look, I might look even more than compared to how people, because of how, people see the rest of the world as far as our current obesity epidemic.

Melanie Avalon:
And I know, yeah, and I think Maria has talked about this as well, but, uh, do you have thoughts on it, Vanessa?

Vanessa Spina:
I mean, i know Maria struggled with that a lot as, well because she always says when she was overweight or obese, that she was often criticized for her appearance. And now that's she's sort of at the other end of the spectrum of weight, I guess, she gets also criticized quite a bit for being very, very lean.

Vanessa Spina:
And I think it's definitely a North American thing. And it is because rates of obesity are so high. It's a full out epidemic. in Europe I find that people here are just a lot leaner like I know the the statistics I don't know what the exact statistics are but it's just easy to see when you walk around you most people are normal weight I would say and I'm talking about like body fat percentage in terms of being like either athletic or lean category, maybe a little overweight but not obese.

Vanessa Spina:
It's really rare to see even one obese person. Actually, when we were in Spain last month, I saw more obese people than I had seen in a while and I was surprised because it just used to be in Prague and you really don't see it much.

Vanessa Spina:
As a contrast, it's the same thing because I grew up in China. China, everybody was lean. It's different now. But when I was growing up in China everybody was very lean and then when we would go back to North America, I would always have this like reverse culture shock.

Vanessa Spina:
So like you said, wherever you're coming from, I used to seeing only lean people and people were not affluent or wealthy there. A lot of that was a product of poverty in in china, but seeing people who were overeating and overweight was like shocking.

Vanessa Spina:
It was very shocking to me. So it feels like you probably stand out a lot more if you're on like sort of the leaner side in a society or culture where like a Lot of population is avoid or obese so like you said it depends where you are looking at it from like if you were walking around or existing in Europe I don't think you would ever get those kinds of comments so it is like the the frame of reference right because you're like, not that far removed from the average, lean person here, you probably look pretty similar, but you are very far -removed from like someone who's obese.

Vanessa Spina:
So it just creates like a really big contrast. I know you, that you eat tons of protein every day, and you ate tons food every day. You nourish your body really well. You know, you also do other things, lifestyle, a lot of lifestyle interventions, you know, that puts you in a really healthy place, like in a small percentage of the population.

Vanessa Spina:
You know that that is really, really like on the leaner side and very metabolically healthy. You're measuring all your biomarkers and all of that. So, it's unfortunate that people make that assumption about you.

Vanessa Spina:
And like you said, you've been very open about like how much you eat in -a -day and you know, all the different lifestyle things that you do. I mean, I know that you're someone who, like you said, has maintained similar weight for like a decade, you know?

Vanessa Spina:
And that, if you are very healthy and you really take care of yourself. So I'm sorry that have to experience that kind of, I don't know what you call backlash or criticism, because I know Maria really struggles with it.

Vanessa Spina:
And you don t want to be judged for your body, the way your body is, or the way body looks. Like if it feels good to be in your body the way that it is then that's all that should matter. So yeah it's unfortunate but it' s really interesting that you found so much research on it.

Melanie Avalon:
No, well first of all thank you yeah thank you for saying all of that and sharing that perspective and it it yeah, it''s so interesting to hear about it differently with the European perspective which I have thought about before.

Melanie Avalon:
And just going back to like the, it's interesting because the comments and stuff are presented as an objective observation comment about my weight or whatever it may be. But oftentimes, there's probably a lot behind why that person is expressing what they're expressing.

Melanie Avalon:
That's probably not even related to me per se, especially if it gets like super personal. Like I got a comment yesterday, like this week actually, where a person said like, no amount of like makeup or hair, whatever, could make me look, you know, beautiful because of my weight or something.

Melanie Avalon:
And I was like there's a lot there. Like, that's not even a weight comment. You know? Like that s not even so, and my heart goes out to everybody, especially with like Maria talking about how she got backlash on both sides of the spectrum.

Melanie Avalon:
It's like you just can't win. It's like society today, you just can't win when it comes to weight and then it gets further complicated because it is tied to health. Being severely underweight and being obese is tight to help conditions and that shouldn't be a judgment or a moral issue or an emotional issue, or anything like that.

Melanie Avalon:
But it's hard to even talk about it because its all so intertwined.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, it feels like a minefield. That was one of the questions I was asking Dr. Gabrielle Lyon when we did the last interview. I asked her, what are your thoughts on, was it health at every size or something movement?

Vanessa Spina:
And she was like, she's just talking about the data. We have objective data showing that being obese is not healthy and especially not for metabolic health and for all your disease risk when it comes to cardiovascular health, for cardiometabolic health for mental health.

Vanessa Spina:
She talked about studies where the brain's health and size was affected by waist size. There's a lot of statistics and figures that we have on this, so it is kind of confusing and I think detrimental to overall society when we We are not able to talk about it openly and plainly because we have the data, and it's not about judgment.

Vanessa Spina:
It's like because, we don't want there to be an obesity crisis or epidemic. We don�t want to have children who are dealing with late onset diseases because their health is declining already so rapidly.

Vanessa Spina:
like we don't want to have a society that's like sick and unhealthy. We want people to be well and healthy and able to pursue their lives goals and also live their life to the fullest. So yeah, it's really unfortunate that it is like a political minefield when it comes to just talking about basic health.

Melanie Avalon:
I could not agree more. That sums it up so well. So, yes, but thank you, Karen, for your review and for asking about it. And thank You, Vanessa, for the wonderful open discussions surrounding it and everything.

Melanie Avalon:
I really appreciate it,

Vanessa Spina:
really, really do. I applaud you for addressing it's not easy to address comments like that.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, thank you. So only good things around here, friends. Love and support. Good vibes. Good fives. Speaking of good vibs, what would be a really good vibe is if you guys win our giveaway. So make sure that you enter to win.

Melanie Avalon:
Go to Apple Podcasts, write a new review and or update your old review. Send a screenshot of that to questions at iphodcast .com. You can get the show notes for today's show at iphodcast dot com slash episode 366.

Melanie Avalon:
All the stuff that we like at I have podcast comm slash stuff we like. And you can submit your own questions on that website, I have podcast .com or you can directly email questions at I have podcasts.

Melanie Avalon:
com. Well, this has been absolutely amazing. I just so enjoy my conversations with you, Vanessa. Just the most fun time. I can't wait to talk to you next week.

Vanessa Spina:
Me too. I had the best time with you. We could talk for days on end. This podcast is only an hour. So it's so great to be here with you again and with all of our listeners and so appreciate all the questions, the giveaway contest entries, and everything.

Vanessa Spina:
And can't wait to be back here with you again next week.

Melanie Avalon:
Yay. I will talk to you next. Talk to then. Bye. Bye Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient -doctor relationship is formed.


Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intimation Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in Apple Podcasts - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Apr 01

Episode 363: Day Trips, Fasted Traveling, Cold Exposure, Sports Performance, Bloating, Low FODMAP Diets, Carnivore Diet, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 363 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Vanessa Spina, author of Keto Essentials: 150 Ketogenic Recipes to Revitalize, Heal, and Shed Weight.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

MD LOGIC: Upgrade your gut health and well-being with MD Logic Health’s Dr.'s Choice Probiotic. Packed with Lactobacilli, Bifidobacteria strains, it's designed to support your gastrointestinal, immune health and much more. Dr.'s Choice Probiotic is tested multiple times for purity and potency, free of all problematic filters, and comes in a glass bottle! Get 10% off sitewide at mdlogichealth.com with code IFPodcast!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

Beautycounter: Keep your fast clean inside and out with safe skincare! Shop with us at melanieavalon.com/beautycounter and use the code CLEANFORALL20 for 20% off, plus something magical might happen after your first order! Find your perfect Beautycounter products with Melanie's quiz: melanieavalon.com/beautycounterquiz

Join Melanie's Facebook group Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon to discuss and learn about all the things clean beauty, Beautycounter, and safe skincare!

MD LOGIC: Get 10% off sitewide at mdlogichealth.com with code IFPodcast!

Go to melanieavalon.com/biohackingconference and use code BCMelanie for 30% off the 10th Annual Biohacking Conference Tickets. Ends March 31st (drops to 25% after that) 

Intermittent Fasting: Does It Affect Sports Performance? A Systematic Review

Metabolic Switching: An Intermittent Fasting Revolution with Dr. Mark Mattson - Part 1

Listener Q&A: Jennifer - What foods/supplements WON’T break a fast?

LMNT: Go to drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast to get a free sample pack with any purchase!

Episode 354: Special Guest: Dave Asprey, Cold Plunges, Dopamine Fasting, Spermidine, Follistatin Gene Therapy, Sex, Fertility, And More!

Episode 358: Special Guest: Dave Asprey, Coffee, Minerals, Adrenal Fatigue, Wine, Coffee Enemas, Coffee Shops, Traveling, And More!

Listener Q&A: Xenia - My doctor told me to stop 16:8 IF when I had serious bloating issue... (then Emily said why would you discontinue IF? It isn't a diet, it is a lifestyle and once you see all the benefits you won't want to stop and Sacy said In my experience, bloating was food related. Think carbs like pasta, bread, chips. Tweak the food.

FOOD SENSE GUIDEGet Melanie's App At Melanieavalon.com/foodsenseguide To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue Of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, Histamine, Amine, Glutamate, Oxalate, Salicylate, Sulfite, And Thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, Reactions To Look For, Lists Of Foods High And Low In Them, The Ability To Create Your Own Personal Lists, And More!

Episode 347: Special Guest: Vince Ojeda, Gut Health, Food Sensitivities, Food Allergies, Dysbiosis, Fasting Mimicking, Elimination Protocols, IgG, IgE, IgE4, IgM, CD3, Food Antigens, And More!

Go To Victus88.Com And Use The Discount Code MELANIEAVALON For $55 Off Victus88 Testing!

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

(Note: This is generated by AI with 98% accuracy. However, any errors may cause unintended changes in meaning.) 

Melanie Avalon:
Welcome to Episode 363 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker, author of "What, When, Wine" and creator of the supplement line AvalonX. And I'm here with my co-host, Vanessa Spina, sports nutrition specialist, author of "Keto Essentials" and creator of the Tone Breath Ketone Analyzer and Tone Lux Red Light Therapy Bannals. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and ketogenicgirl.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment. To be featured on the show, email us your questions to questions@ifpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. So pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for the Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
This is episode number 363 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon, and I'm here with Vanessa Spina. Hello, everyone. How are you today, Vanessa? I'm doing wonderfully. How are you? I'm good. I had a meeting where I thought about you so much. Like, it was like a Vanessa meeting. Like, you needed to be there to experience it, I will tell you. Yeah, I don't know. We're currently designing packaging for my spirulina supplement. I know why you're talking about me. So I really just want to make the packaging like vibrant and beautiful and eye -catching, and, you know, all the things. So the design call meeting, it was like me and Scott, our partner at Empty Logic, and then like the whole design team. And so I had gathered like a lot of pictures of inspiration for like colors and, you know, the vibe I was feeling. And I found this picture of a mermaid. So for listeners, I just texted this mermaid to Vanessa so she can see it while I tell her the story. Did it come through?

Vanessa Spina:
Oh, yeah, that's beautiful.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, so I saw this picture and the reason I love this mermaid is because because I want to make like a lot of supplements in the spirulina line like a spirulina and chlorella and a blend so I was like oh we can use like part of these colors for one we can use part of the mermaid colors for the other and we can kind of do all the colors for the blend and in my head before the meeting I was like I mean I would like to just do the mermaid honestly on the package but that's too I can't do mermaid like what who am I kidding so then we get on the phone call I like bring up this mermaid I'm like talking about the colors and then Scott Scott makes a comment I made like a throwaway comment like I would love to just have the mermaid like haha jokey jokey and then Scott was like well Starbucks is a mermaid and you know that does fine I was like oh door open you're right so then I was like the funny thing about the call was so Scott and I are like team mermaid the whole rest of the team they're like not no I'm not feeling it I kept being like these colors but like can we have the mermaid and then Scott Scott knew the team would like not really be down with it so he was trying to like hint at it without like really supporting it so he'd be like you know Melanie how do you feel about the mermaid and like we just kept like dancing around the mermaid like people and like Scott and I weren't sure like I wasn't sure if Scott really wanted the mermaid and Scott wasn't really sure like if I seriously wanted the mermaid but we were like trying to read each other out and we kind of thought we were on the same page so it was just like this whole thing about like the mermaid and isn't the mermaid amazing yes cuz cuz on the call they're like we can't do the mermaid I'm like what but can we do the mermaid are they gonna do the mermaid so now I've just decided that we have to do the mermaid like I'm gonna do whatever it takes to make this mermaid happen I've named her essence so beautiful do you know do you have like the artists and everything well that's the thing that was half the call we're like who created this mermaid and because I am because the name of the file is like a lot of numbers and I googled that and I couldn't find the original file but then I went through my initial like it was months ago but I was like I'm gonna find this mermaid so I tried to Google but I originally googled and I tried to like click on the pictures I had clicked on cuz you know like you click on the pictures and then it gives you more pictures and you click on the pictures it gives you more pictures so I sound it that way like going through the tunnel of Google Images it's AI and did you know that AI artwork cannot be copyrighted

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, because Pete my husband's been using it a lot to make graphics for his articles And I'm like so you own this right like it's basically yours. We were just talking about this at dinner I was like, I'm pretty sure that that it's just yours. You can just use it

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, it's like you can just use it but nobody owns it so like anybody can use it.

Vanessa Spina:
Right. So that's kind of like someone else could could take it and do it as well. But that's like, pretty low risk.

Melanie Avalon:
So I found the Etsy store that was selling like the high -res version and I was messaging them and I was I was like I don't want to like give off any flags. I was like, how do I like message and be like, is this copyrighted? I was like so worried. I was gonna do that. They were gonna like take it down and like Copyright it. Yeah, so fun fact ai artwork No copyrights. There might be a mermaid in the future somewhere

Vanessa Spina:
You know, it's funny because when I first opened the image, I was wondering if it was AI just because we were like looking at AI images over dinner that my husband was making. So it's like, yeah, it totally looks

Melanie Avalon:
that way. Did he find some programs that he likes online for that?

Vanessa Spina:
He's using something. I'm not sure what I, when I do it, it does a similar result and I'm using Canva, like there's a plug -in in Canva for it. This whole world of AI is... You would love this. I've been doing it with Luca, so like I did this only a couple times, like I was sitting on the couch with him and I was like, what do you want to see? And he was like, a rainbow choo -choo train by the river in Prague. So like we did that and it made a rainbow choo -choo train in Prague. You know, so we just like, we went through like three or four different pictures and he would just tell me whatever he wanted to see and it would, you know, make the image. So it was really with him. Yeah, I thought of you and I was like, Melanie would love this.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm smiling so much. That's like a whole other level of raising children, you know?

Vanessa Spina:
He's gonna grow up with this just being a thing like he just speaks into existence whatever he wants and it's there

Melanie Avalon:
Whoa. That's crazy. Oh my goodness. I love that. Well, on that note, anything new in your life? That's my mermaid update.

Vanessa Spina:
I mean mostly just baby life like everything is baby life. We're going to Spain next Sunday for a couple weeks because my parents are there so every year they come and spend some time in Spain and we go there and you know it's such a great place for kids like there's so many playgrounds. Every morning we just get up go to a playground there's usually a boardwalk by the beach there's so many different beaches and stuff there and there's always playgrounds like some have like big pirate ships and all kinds of stuff so Luca's really excited to see his grandparents to go on the airplane he's going to have his own seat like he just talks about it every single day how excited he is to go there and we're excited just to get some like nice weather like it started to be spring here but it's going to be a lot warmer and like have some beach days and stuff so it'll be really fun to go there for a couple weeks.

Melanie Avalon:
You know what's really interesting about that is with the playgrounds thing. So when you say that I immediately get so many memories to playgrounds. When I was growing up, they're all the playgrounds we would go to in Europe.

Vanessa Spina:
Oh, that's funny. Yeah, there's there's a lot. I mean, I'm sure Germany is similar, you know, to Spain and Prague, there's a playground, like on every corner, there's just so many, it's endless, which is really great when you have little, little kids.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm just getting so many memories. Like the playgrounds, they're like sturdy. They're like magical and they're like sturdy.

Vanessa Spina:
super colorful like there's this one that we go to in Spain that's just rainbow like it's total rainbow and every every part of it is a different you know rainbow color and Luca loves running around and saying all the colors names and yeah it's it's really fun so I'm really excited to get some travel in it's been a while since we went anywhere because I haven't been able to travel for a while so I'm excited for that.

Melanie Avalon:
Right, and you're the little travel bee.

Vanessa Spina:
Speaking of which, we said we were going to talk about your trip to London, so...

Melanie Avalon:
did it. And long story short for listeners, true story. So I supposed to go to London for like, how many days, three days or four days. I ended up, I went to Thanksgiving dinner, I came home. So I literally went for like a dinner.

Vanessa Spina:
It's, this is the most Melanie thing I've ever heard. I love it. And I know you did it twice, and then you were like, this is my new thing. I'm just gonna go places for a day.

Melanie Avalon:
Oh, I'm all about it. I'm all about it. Like I can do anything for a day. And you know, I have these moments. I mean, I know I'm an adult and I know I've been an adult for a while, which is weird. But like, you know, you have these moments where like, oh, I'm an adult. I had that moment. I like got back from the Thanksgiving dinner, which was fabulous. I went to see Charlotte Fox Weber. She's a guest. I found the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. I adore her. In any case, I went for a Thanksgiving party. So I like went to the party. I got back to my hotel that night and I was sitting in the hotel lobby and I was just so I had like a blast. But like I wanted to get back to work like I, I didn't want to like just like hang out in London for a few days by myself and not be working. So I was sitting in the lobby like probably like one or two am and I was like, Wait a minute. Because the first I was like, I'm still gonna be here for a few days. I was like, Wait a minute, I can fly back tomorrow. Like I can do that. Like I can change my flight. I can leave this hotel. I felt so adult. That's amazing. And so I did. And that's when I got COVID. Yeah, I felt so bad for you. You were so sick. Yeah, so it was a fun time. And now I do the Monday trips. Now I've done quite a few of them. And they're more to come.

Vanessa Spina:
That's so freeing, you know, I mean, we talk a lot about on this podcast about finding the thing that works for you, you know, trying different things, knowing yourself. And that's just like such a perfect example of it. Cause you know, in the past you may have said no to trips cause you didn't want to do all the travel or be gone for a long time. But now that, you know, you can just go for a day, like opens up this whole world of possibilities for

Melanie Avalon:
travel for you. It's amazing. And then I want to slowly, like, extend the days that I'm there, but, you know, work on that aspect. But, yeah, because people think what's bothering me is, like, the travel part or, you know, the travel part. But I'm like, no, the travel part's fine. It's like being away from—I just don't feel good with, like, my food and my digestion and my sleep and all of that for multiple days, but I can suck it up for a day.

Vanessa Spina:
It's a part of travel. I mean, a lot of people I you probably so many people listening to this have the experience of when their travel like they just don't go to the bathroom for like several days and stuff like, which is why for me, I always take magnesium citrate with me the magnesium calm, because like that usually doesn't happen for me, but if it does, like I'm not concerned, but so many people, I'll talk to they'll be like, Yeah, I went to Mexico and I like didn't go to the bathroom for a week. Like, oh my god.

Melanie Avalon:
So that freaks me out, like it freaks me out.

Vanessa Spina:
But it's such a common thing that when people travel, it like, you know, you're eating different foods, you're in different environments, there's different bacteria, like, it does affect most people's digestion, some people not at all, or just a little bit, and some people a lot. So you're not the only person, like, it's a very common part of traffic.

Melanie Avalon:
And actually, I'm so glad we're talking about this because I did want to talk about something for the listeners related to it. I was thinking a lot of the bowel movement issues are about it messing up your circadian rhythm with the travel because so much of that is tied to your circadian rhythm. I hadn't done an international trip since I've been fasting, so this was my first international trip with fasting. I didn't really have any jet lag. I implemented my theory I've been talking about for so long but hadn't personally implemented. I mean, I do it domestically, but that's only a few hours difference. I did it for this trip, and I don't want to say zero jet lag, but I don't remember having any jet lag. So basically, my protocol was I just ate my... So I do a one meal a day with a later meal, like a dinner meal. So the night before traveling, because I had a late night flight out, I stayed up super late, like more later than normal, had a massive meal like normal, slept in really late, went to the airport on the night flight, and then I just fasted the whole flight over. And then when I got to London, it was the morning. By the time I got to my hotel, it was the afternoon. I still didn't eat, so I was still fasted, and I just fasted till dinner. And then at dinnertime, I had an early dinner, and then I went to bed, and then it was completely normal the next day. And then on the way back, I did the same thing. I just did my normal dinner before the flight, and then I flew home the next morning, and then I fasted the whole flight, and then I ate dinner when I got back, and then I was completely normal the next day. Like zero. Besides the actual day landing there, where I was a little bit tired, there was zero jet lag. That's it.

Vanessa Spina:
That's great. That's what I always do. I usually fast on flying because it's easy. It's easy.

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, and you can use your meals as an anchor, basically, to sync up your circadian rhythm to the new time zone. So if your body is accustomed to thinking, I eat this at this time, I eat this at dinner, I eat this at breakfast, I eat this at lunch, then it automatically, when you eat that meal again in that time zone, in that time zone's time for that meal, it just syncs you up. So, yeah, team fasting for jet lag.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, and I mean, my biggest thing for jet lag is just as soon as I land, say I land in Europe, is getting outside and getting as much light on myself as possible and going for a long walk. And I think that that's probably been helpful because it is helping you sync up with the wavelengths of light at that time of day, which is then triggering different hormones, you know, and helping you, you know, make melatonin more later and helping you with all that. So, yeah, that I think the light and the meals are two of the biggest things you can do to really help. I think that's

Melanie Avalon:
That's amazing, yes. And then my little hack that I have discovered, I don't know if I told you this, but one of the things I miss the most with travel is my cooling mattress. Like I have to have my cooling mattress. Have I told you my solution to this? No. Because you can't travel with a cooling mattress, but here's what you do. Are you ready? I love this so much. So you go, I always go to Whole Foods, which they, it is so nice that there's Whole Foods in Europe. I was like, oh, I feel like I'm at home.

Vanessa Spina:
The whole thing I do, if I go to Austin, I go to Whole Foods. If I go to London, I go to Whole Foods.

Melanie Avalon:
Although it's like different in the European whole foods. I was like, stuff is like different here, but in any case. So I always get the, they have like the whole foods brand leader glass bottles of water. So I always stock up on that water because that's why I drink at home. And then if I travel, I stock up on it to drink there. But if you get a mini fridge in the hotel room, keep the water in the mini fridge. And then at night when you're sleeping, you get out one of those really cold waters and you kind of cuddle it like it's a stuffed animal and like it keeps you really cold. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And then you come out. So like, so you cuddle it and you want to get it by your like core so that it's like cooling you down. And then, you know, if you wake up like a few hours and it's warm, you just swap it out with a new cold, cold one and cuddle it again.

Vanessa Spina:
That's amazing. I mean, most people cuddle with a hot water bottle and you go with an ice cold bottle of water. I love it. Like you're such a cold girl. It's really in your DNA. Do you think it's in your DNA or do you think it's something that you have like trained yourself because you know all the benefits of cold?

Melanie Avalon:
Well, like growing up like in high school and like I would always like I love the heat and I love tanning and but I also was always hot like my mom would always be like, wear a coat and be like, I'm fine. I like feeling not inflamed, which is why the cold makes me feel. So I don't know. That's a good question. How about you?

Vanessa Spina:
For me, I definitely have trained myself. Like I never liked being cold growing up. I think it's because I under ate protein. But now I'm the person I was the person who was always cold. I think I was under eating calories a lot and I was under eating protein. And now I'm the person who's always too warm. Like I walking around in t shirts. It's not that warm here, but it's been we've been getting a little bit of spring sun and I've been out in t shirts. We went ice skating. Last weekend, we took Luca for the first time and I was in a t shirt the whole time. You know, and I love that. Like I love the feeling of the cold air, but I have made myself deliberately more cold adapted. And I also love that I've made myself cold adapted because I feel like it's a superpower that I'd much rather be wanting to, you know, cool off and to enjoy cold exposure, especially because I know how beneficial it is. You know, in the morning I go outside and stand in the sun or do some grounding and it's freezing cold, but it feels amazing to me. And I much prefer that to when I was a teenager, you know, we did a ton of winter sports and I was always freezing. Like I was always cold and resisting the cold, you know, and not enjoying it. Whereas now, you know, I love it and I love that you can make yourself more cold adapted. So I'm one of those people who will make myself learn to love and embrace things because I know that they're good for me. And I think that that's like, it's kind of a cool thing to be able to do, but it's definitely, it's probably in our DNA, you know, but we like moved away from it towards comfort for so long. And then when you realize that it's better to embrace these things, then maybe you go back more to like how we're originally optimized.

Melanie Avalon:
is for? I think, no, I think it's so true. I had that moment recently where I was like, oh, this does feel like a superpower. Because I was reflecting on how, I was reflecting on how whenever I have guests back to my apartment, even if they're like men who you would think would be like, you know, resilient, because I keep my apartment cold, like cold. And all the men who have come over here are like, freezing. And I'm like, I'm fine. And I was like, thinking about it, I'm like, I, this is like a superpower, you know, I'm like, resilient, I can like handle the elements, even though I can't really handle the elements. But I love the cold, team cold over here. Quick travel plug for people, if they would like to come hang out with me. Oh, speaking of travel, Vanessa, you should come to the biohacking conference in Dallas. Is it happening already again? It's in May. Yes. Wow, that's crazy. I'm excited. So it's going to be so amazing. It's at the end of May, through the beginning of April, it's like three days. So look at me, I'm going to be there more than one day. Definitely come. There's so many guests I've had on the podcast. So I was looking at the lineup, it's people like Paul Saladino, Dr. Mercola, Sarah Gottfried, Anna Kebecke, there's like so many people. And then there's this massive expo where you can try all the health and biohacking things, meet all the people. We can hang out. So please come listeners. And if you're coming, please let me know so that we can meet. So if you go to melanieavilon .com slash biohacking conference, oh, and this is Dave Asprey's biohacking conference, by the way. So he'll be there as well. Use the coupon code BCMelanie and that coupon code will get you a massive discount. I think when this airs, it'll be a 30% discount. So again, melanieavalon.com/biohackingconference, coupon code BCMelanie, please come hang out. I will be there and we'll have so much fun. So I think that's all the things. And then one last plug for people, we are about to close out our special giveaway we're doing for the show. So this is a chance to win the entire AvalonX line, Vanessa's Tone Protein, and a special surprise from MD Logic. So you will win, are you ready? You will win my Sera Peptase, which is great to take in the fasted state. It really helps support your fast because it helps you break down problematic proteins, sort of like what autophagy does. So it helps with inflammation, clears your sinuses, clears your brain fog. Studies have shown it can reduce cholesterol, it can reduce amyloid plaque, in vitro and in vivo. Again, animal studies, but still pretty cool. So you'll get that. You'll get my Magnesium 8, which is a broad -spectrum magnesium blend because most people are deficient in magnesium. That's great for muscle recovery, sleep, just energy overall. You'll get my Magnesium Nightcap, which is a special type of magnesium, which crosses the blood -brain barrier. It helps with memory and mood, as well as sleep and relaxation. You will get my berberine, which is amazing for blood sugar control. If you're really trying to optimize your fasting and your eating and take charge of your metabolic health, berberine is incredible for that. When I wear a CGM, I see a massive difference in my blood sugar response when I am taking my berberine, specifically. I've compared it to other berberines. You will get Vanessa's Tone Protein. Vanessa, would you like to tell them about your tone protein?

Vanessa Spina:
I would love to. Well, first of all, it tastes absolutely delicious because it's flavored with a vanilla bean. And everyone says they absolutely love taking everyday look forward to it as a special treat, but it's also scientifically optimized to help you build muscle and get toned and lean. So it's enhanced with leucine. So you know that you're triggering muscle protein synthesis with every serving. So it's scientifically formulated for optimal muscle growth and it also tastes delicious.

Melanie Avalon:
So you will get that and we recorded an episode episode before last all about the awesome benefits of protein actually before workouts how you can still burn equal amounts of fat as fasting as with protein prior to a workout so that's prior to a workout but also that protein would be great for refueling after a workout and Vanessa is the best of the best for formulation so you definitely definitely want that tone protein you will also get a special surprise from one of MD logics favorite supplements I'm not sure what they're going to throw in but I'm sure it will be awesome they have a wide broad range of supplements so if you would like to win all of that which is worth definitely a couple hundred bucks go to apple podcast subscribe to the show and write a brief review if you've already written a review before no worries you can update your old review to update it for something new and sparkly or you could create a new account and write a new review we would really love that but in any case do that and send a screenshot of the review to questions at if podcast .com and we will enter you to win the prize which is really really awesome so again subscribe brief review on apple podcasts or update your old review send us a screenshot to questions at ifodcast .com and you will win avallonix sarah peptase magnesium 8 magnesium nightcap berberine vanessa's tone protein and something special from MD logic all of that is worth a couple hundred bucks super awesome yeah okay shall we get into some fasting stuff for today I would love to answer some questions before that I have a really fun little quick review I was going to share a study it's actually just a review but it's from January 2024 so it's pretty new and it is a systemic review published in nutrients and it's called intermittent fasting does it affect sports performance a systemic review so the purpose of the study was to investigate whether or not intermittent fasting affects performance and professional athletes they wanted to look on the effects of aerobic and anaerobic exercise strength and power body composition including fat mass muscle mass and weight and see how intermittent fasting affected all of that the majority of the studies they looked at were time restricted feeding with a 16 hour fasting window and an eight hour feeding window there were a couple that were 14 eight hour fasting and those were primarily in Ramadan and they did look at one that looked at just quote overnight fasting their conclusion was. So looking at all the reviews, they found that first of all, they said that they could affirm that intermittent fasting of any type metabolically affects the body composition in a positive way. So it helps with body weight specifically. They said that it's a adequate nutritional strategy to reduce body fat percentage to a good number for the athlete. So that number is between 6% to 12% body fat for men and 12% to 18% body fat for women while, and this is key, maintaining muscle mass. So I think that is just so, so important. They also found that studies showed that fasting patients had greater adherence than other dietary approaches. So basically it's fasting is something that you can really stick to and is good for the long term. And interestingly, they actually found that in general, the fasting was actually more effective in the medium and long term than in the short term. And I just want to focus on this for a second because so often when we think of things like dieting or calorie restriction, it's always said that, yeah, it works in the short term, but not in the long term. Well, they actually found literally the opposite, which is what we want, that fasting is more effective in the medium and the long term than the short term, which I thought was super cool. They found that in general fasting improves metabolic health and insulin sensitivity and glucose and lipid metabolism. So that's sugar and fat metabolism in the body, all in ways that would be beneficial for the athlete. In particular, it seems to have a beneficial effect on adiponectin hormone, which low levels of adiponectin are actually associated with obesity, oxidative stress, and insulin resistance. So they found a good effect there. And they found that fasting does not negatively affect sports performance. And I already said this, but that it does improve body composition. So takeaway, again, this is a review from January 2024, but their findings were that fasting is basically a really good approach for professional athletes. Any comments there, Vanessa?

Vanessa Spina:
I think that's amazing. I mean, there's so many detractors about intermittent fasting. And yet I know when I was interviewing Dr. Mark Madsen, who's sort of one of the founders of intermittent fasting, he did some of the early research on it. And he found, you know, that it was amazing for, you know, BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor, and that it was helping the athletes at his university. And he was really wanting to put their whole university track team on intermittent fasting, because he, he personally saw that with his running, that it was improving it. And he was like, we're going to be, you know, unbeatable if my, if the whole track team does intermittent fasting, but you know, he, he couldn't do it with the students there. But I remember him saying that, you know, he thought it was like the super powerful athletes for sure.

Melanie Avalon:
That's so amazing. I love anecdotes like that. I need to, how many times have you interviewed him, Dr. Mattson?

Vanessa Spina:
Just once, I did one interview with him on the optimal protein podcast.

Melanie Avalon:
Okay, very cool. And he's like a legend in the fasting sphere. He's done so much, so much research with fasting. So that's amazing. Yeah.

Vanessa Spina:
Yeah, I think he's one of the main reasons that intermittent fasting took off in the first place is definitely his research. That's incredible.

Melanie Avalon:
So, okay, and we'll put a link in the show notes to Vanessa's episode with Dr. Matson so people can check that out. And okay, shall we jump into some questions for today? Yes, I would love to. So to start things off, we have a question from Jennifer. We get questions like this all the time, but it's always nice to revisit and kind of just give an overview or approach to it. So she wants to know what foods slash supplements won't break a fast. She says she takes collagen powder, MCT oil, omega -3 oil, and she's read that a tablespoon of cream might be okay, but is any of that true?

Vanessa Spina:
So my personal golden rule with this is basically anything that has any calories in it or that's going to stimulate any anabolic processes or building or growth processes is not suitable for fasting because you want to only be in that catabolic or breakdown mode when you're in fasted mode. And so you are activating the AMPK pathway, which is associated with the longevity and health benefits that are provided from doing fasting. So I personally think, you know, if you're ever in doubt, just ask yourself, does this have any calories in it? So that means there are actually some supplements that you can take fasted as long as they don't say take with food on them because they don't have any calories at all. And they're not triggering any anabolic processes. But if we look at your list, for example, you know, collagen powder, does it have calories in it? Yes. So it does break a fast MCT oil. Does it have calories in it? Yes. So we'll break it fast. Omega three oil. Does it have calories in it? Yes. So we'll break it fast. So cream does have calories definitely will break it fast. So I think that one of the reasons there's a lot of confusion about this is because there are people who follow sort of the, you know, four different forms of fasting and keto, like the bulletproof sort of coffee kind of thing where, you know, that was always advocated as, well, this won't break your fast because it doesn't have any carbs in it. So in a sense, you know, there are people who advocate for fat fasts where, okay, we know that you're really not triggering as much insulin as if you're having carbs or protein. That's definitely true. But if it has calories in it, then in my opinion, you're taking the body out of the fasted state. So that's kind of, I'm pretty black and white on it. And that's how I tend to look at things. So being in the fasted state, for me, you know, there are things that you can get away with, like mostly water, plain tea, element, unflavored, I think it's called the raw element, which is basically just the electrolytes, you know, those things don't have calories in them. And they're not stimulating any growth pathways, anything anabolic. So what about you, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon:
Three thoughts to it. One, if listeners would like free element, you can go to drinklmnt .com slash if podcast, that will get you a free sample pack, which will include that raw unflavored one. So definitely that would be a great supplement for your fast, the raw unflavored, which actually brings me to the second point, which is like an element sample pack, you also get all the other flavors. And so those are an example of something that is non caloric, so no calories, but they have a, like a sweet taste to them. I consider that breaking a fast, even though it's non caloric, which I love Vanessa's pillar about the calories, even though it's non caloric, it's sending signals to your body of flavor and food and sweetness, which can affect your insulin and you know, have a hormonal effect from there. So I basically do the two pillars like the calorie pillar that Vanessa talked about, and then does it evoke sweetness or the taste of food, even if it's non caloric. That's a really simple way to like two pillars to look at. But the third thing I thought about was, I guess we haven't recorded since I recorded the in person podcast with Dave for this show, right? That was also before. Yes, we have not recorded together, right? Yes, that's right. Crazy. I was thinking about it because you mentioned bulletproof. And also I asked Dave, so I'll put links in the show notes to the episodes that I did with Dave. But I asked him, you know, this question, of course, he has a very opinionated, intense opinion about this, which is a little bit contrary to what we said. That was crazy. I forgot, Vanessa, have you done in person podcasts before?

Vanessa Spina:
I have been a couple, but I was being interviewed, so it wasn't me interviewing like you did. you

Melanie Avalon:
Yeah, I was like, this is a whole like, this is a whole another experience. Having to, it was a lot. It was a lot to take in. Because being interviewed, like you said, is one thing, but you're you're just answering the questions. But I was like, prepping and I had my notes, but it was like on camera. And it was with Dave Asprey, who's like a legend. And it was like a lot to take in and I was traveling for it. So but it was a magical time. So listeners, definitely, definitely check it out. I want to do more in person podcasts now, actually, which is crazy. It inspired me. So Okie Dokie, I think we answered that question. Shall we go on to Zena's question?

Vanessa Spina:
Yes. So Xenia from Facebook says, my doctor told me to stop 16, eight intermittent fasting when I had a serious bloating issue. He couldn't tell me why I had a bloating issue. I did some tests and just minor stomach inflammation, but he said that I should stop 16, eight intermittent fasting, but I'm seeing people having all kinds of benefits from intermittent fasting, including fixing gut issues. And what if I start having weight gain after discontinuing with IF? What should I do? Then Emily said, why would you discontinue IF? It isn't a diet. It's a lifestyle. And once you see all the benefits, you won't want to stop. Stacy said, in my experience, bloating was food related. Think carbs like pasta, bread, chips, tweak the food.

Melanie Avalon:
Awesome. So I love this question from Zinnia. I love the feedback that listeners provided as well. Okay, so Zinnia went to her doctor and her doctor said to stop IF because of her bloating. This doesn't really make sense to me. Okay, I have a few different thoughts. One, the actual fasted process itself is like Zinnia mentioned, healing for the gut. She's saying that she's heard the benefits of IF including fixing gut issues. So resting the gut is a great chance for it to heal and repair itself. Any bloating you would get from the actual fast would probably, and I reserve the right to be not completely comprehensive or adjust if new information comes out. But from my current understanding, really the only bloating that would be caused by fasting itself, not the eating on the flip side, but by the actual fasting would be a sort of die -off that people can get. So if you're starving some bad gut microbes, they can get a little bit unhappy and they can release metabolic byproducts which might contribute to bloating. That would be temporary though if you are fixing your gut, working on your foods, addressing your microbiome. So that would be a temporary thing and it's not something where you need to stop fasting. Now, if you get bloating while fasting, it's probably from kind of like what the listeners were like Stacy was saying with being the food related. It's probably from the food you're eating after the fasting and it could be accentuated or made a little bit worse because in the fasting pattern, you might now be eating a larger bolus of food at once than you were before. So before if you were eating just throughout the day, you would be constantly digesting that food at more of a baseline compared to fasting. And then if you're eating like a large bolus of food, you might be getting some digestive distress from that. So it could be just the actual load of the food being too much for you and or the actual foods that you're eating may be problematic and maybe eating them in a larger amount at once is a problem. So some ways to address that, I mean, two big pillars there. One, digestive support can be amazing. So taking some HCL, which is basically like our stomach acid and you can get it in supplement form that can really help with digestion, especially for digestion of protein. And you know, we're all about the high protein meals around here. And then digestive enzymes can be really great to help break down just all the things. I actually, Teaser probably will have a line out for this in the future. Right now what I currently take, I use pure encapsulations for their digestive enzymes and their HCL. So you can try that. And then also the actual foods you're eating, the bloating is probably caused by the foods you're eating or an extension, the foods, how they're being digested and metabolized by your gut bacteria, which are affected by the foods you're eating as well. So it all kind of like goes full circle. So I would really, I wouldn't stop IF, look at your food choices and try to find what you do digest. Going on an elimination diet temporarily can be really helpful for that. Definitely get my app FoodSense Guide. That's at melonieavilon .com slash FoodSense Guide. I'm happy to announce it is now free. It used to be a paid app, but I actually made it free. So you can subscribe beyond that for other features in it, but there is a free version. So that is a comprehensive guide to over 300 foods. And it'll show you what different potentially problematic food compounds are high in each food. So you can kind of see like, oh, if I'm reacting to, you know, these foods, you can like see what compounds they're high in. And it might turn out that you have a problem with FODMAPs or you have a problem with lectins or you have a problem with histamine. So that might be a valuable tool. Also taking something I love to help with this that has been incredible for my bloating has been to, well, for me to a low FODMAP diet. So I use my FoodSense Guide app for that. And then having my fast and then ending my fast. There's this supplement. I want to make my own version one day. It's called Dr. Danielle Gut Assist. I have tried a lot of different leaky gut support powders. And they usually have some combination of glutamine with some other things. I love this one. I literally, I've tried so many. So it has L -glutamine, it has D -glycerinated licorice extract, which I've tried that one by itself as well. But I like it in this blend. It has some aloe and it has some arabino -galactin. So I take that as a supplement at the end of my fast. And I found that really, really helps my overall digestion and bloating. So to recap, Zinnia, I would not stop the, I mean, I don't want to go against your doctor. So work with your practitioner or find a new one. I would keep going with the bloating and then kind of like, so Stacy talked about the food -related things. And then Emily was saying, why would you discontinue IF? It isn't a diet. It's a lifestyle. And once you see all the benefits, you won't want to stop. I do think that a lot of listeners and people, IF becomes a lifestyle for them. And all of that said, we kind of talked about this a little bit with Vanessa's eating window in the past. That said, don't feel like you have to be on one certain type of fasting forever and ever. Like you should feel free and the ability to change around your fasting window. So I think the best of both worlds is seeing fasting as a lifestyle and also knowing you have flexibility within that to change and adapt accordingly. So I don't think we ever want like a fear mindset or over restriction or anything like that. So I just want to encourage that mindset surrounding all of that. I also have thoughts about the weight gain after discontinuing. But Vanessa, do you have any thoughts about the bloating and all the things?

Vanessa Spina:
I think you entered it really thoroughly. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the waking.

Melanie Avalon:
I was just going to say to that that like people really get, you know, worried about weight gain after discontinuing with IF and well, A, goes back to IF can be a lifestyle and it's always in your back pocket and you can always keep doing it. But having this fear about weight gain, I just really want to empower people that you can always, even if you're not doing fasting, you can always make food choices that support your body and you don't have to gain weight. And I know that sounds like really simple and simplistic, so maybe I'll elaborate on it a little bit more, but so say you do stop fasting and you go back to eating throughout the day. Your body requires a certain amount of nutrients and calories every single day and you don't have to be restrictive to maintain, especially if you're making whole foods choices and focusing on protein, there's just so much potential basically in your food choices. And when you get out of the mindset of like, it's all about calories and if I eat this amount of calories or if I'm eating at these times, I'm going to gain weight, I would just try to add some comfort in that focus on what you can have and, you know, try to not focus on the fear mindset about gaining weight. Think about things that like if you focus on protein, for example, that's going to fill you up, especially lean protein and lean protein itself does not easily become fat. I mean, we even talked about a study recently where fueling with lean protein before exercise, people still burn fat similar to fasted exercise, which is so, so mind blowing. So focusing on foods that don't even normally become fat, so eating protein and then eating whole foods that, you know, require, they require energy to be broken down. They have a thermogenic effect. They're not just easily shuttled into fat. I just want to encourage people to, to kind of lose that fear if they can. Yeah, that was a lot of thoughts. Any, any thoughts, Vanessa?

Vanessa Spina:
Just I guess the last note that I would say about the bloating is I really recommend trying an elimination protocol. And for me, I did that for a month doing carnivore, you don't have to do it for a whole month, but carnivore diet, just eating mostly meat, I think you did it recently for like, almost two weeks, like 10 days. It's a period of time where you can just only give your body something that generally does not cause much bloating for people. And what I found is that when I did only meat, then I was able to reintroduce certain plant foods, and I was able to see what actually did cause bloating for me. And after I figured out what that was, like for me, it was a lot of cruciferous vegetables, a lot of the cabbage family, broccoli, cauliflower, you know, a lot of times people eat these foods because we're told they have anti cancer properties, and they're really good for you. And a lot of people incorporate them into your diet. But for me, it was causing me so much bloating. And as soon as I figured out what it was, I was able to, you know, reintroduce other foods, and not have to deal with bloating anymore. So I think that elimination protocols can be really helpful to sort of figure out if there is something that you're habitually consuming that is actually causing bloating for you. And it's a food sometimes that you may not think it is. And it could surprise you. But then once you figure it out, then, you know, you don't have to deal with bloating anymore, which, you know, I've been free of bloating for four or five years now since I figured that out. And I know from having dealt with it in the past, how uncomfortable and stressful it is, and it may not be being caused by food. I'm glad you're seeing a specialist about it to figure out the root cause of it. But elimination protocols can be really powerful, you know, for figuring that out.

Melanie Avalon:
I'm so glad you talked about that because that reminded me of an incredible resource for listeners. So we had the founders of Victus88 on the show. This is the food sensitivity test. I am obsessed with friends, so I was always looking for a food sensitivity test that would actually show you what you were sensitive to. Because most of them just look at IgG or IgM, which isn't the full picture, they actually look at the full picture, which is not just IgG and IgM, your immune reactions, but these two really important things called C3D as well as IgG4. And basically, I don't want to get all in the nuance and the weeds of it, but basically what they do is they show you what your body is actually reacting to. And then they show you if your body has created tolerance because it's possible that you're having an IgG or an IgE response. And I said that earlier, I think I said IgM, they look at IgG, IgE, IgG4, and C3D. They show you not only are you responding to a certain food, but is your body either A, have tolerance, so it's actually not a problem, or B, are you only responding a little bit, but your body is amplifying that response, and that's what that C3D response is. So that was a lot of letters. It's a mind -blowing test, and I think it really helps show listeners what foods may or may not be a problem, and even on the meat side of things. So when I did it, I found that I thought, oh, carnivore, any meat goes, but I found that I actually respond, for example, some I have zero response to, like pork is completely fine for me. Cod is fine. Shrimp is fine. Scallops, which I eat all the time, have a little bit of a response, but they have this complementary other aspect, which makes them be tolerant to it, which is so fascinating. But then I actually do have a little bit of reaction to chicken and beef, which made me sad. I was like, what? And also, people can find that addressing their that if they do multiple tests, addressing their gut health and their digestion, that they might adapt and change over time, which is incredible. So if you it's called Victus 88, you can get $55 off with the code Melanie Avalon. Just go to Melanie Avalon dot com slash Victus 88. That's B I C T U S eight eight. So that could be really, really eye opening for everybody to see what foods like literally see what foods there are problematic for them, like right here, right now. And then you can make actually walks you through a elimination. It gives you options like an intense elimination protocol to try or a more approachable elimination protocol where you just cut things out every few days. So it's really amazing. We'll put links to all that in the show notes. So I think that is all the things as a brief reminder for listeners. If you would like to win the entire avallonix line, as well as messes tone protein, as well as a special surprise from IndiLogic, go to Apple podcasts, write a brief review and subscribe or update your old review and send a screenshot of that to questions. I a podcast dot com. Another resource if you'd like to hang out with me and Dave Asprey and Paul Saladino and Dr. Sarah Gottfried and Anna Kebecke and so many guests I've had on my show. Definitely come to Dave Asprey's 10th annual biohacking conference in Dallas. It's this may be code B C. Melanie will get you 30% off at melanieavallon .com slash biohacking conference. You can get these show notes for today's show with links to all of this. So all these things I'm hitting you with, they'll all be in the show notes. They'll be at I a podcast dot com slash episode 363. You can follow us on Instagram. We are I a podcast. I am Melanie Avalon. Vanessa is ketogenic girl and you can follow me on my new TikTok. Please come hang out with me there. I feel really lonely. So please come. That is Melanie Avalon biohacker. Whoo. Okay. I think that is all the things. Vanessa, this was so wonderful. Thank you for, I want to say thank you to Vanessa because she's like a champ. She's doing these recordings while having, you know, a newborn. So, so much gratitude to you for, for being here and this has been so amazing.

Vanessa Spina:
That's so sweet. I'm so happy to be back recording with you. I'm excited for us to get back to our regular recording schedule and just excited for, yeah, all the future episodes. I had so much on with you. Me too.

Melanie Avalon:
Well, I will talk to you next time.

Vanessa Spina:
next week. Sounds great. Talk to you then. Bye.

Melanie Avalon:
Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice, and no patient -doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by podcast doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re -composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week!

Melanie Avalon:
Thank you so much for listening to the Intimation Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Vanessa: ketogenicgirl.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

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Mar 12

Episode 308: Photo Shoots, Post Exercise Meals, Birth Control, Vitamins & Supplements, Cycling With Seeds, Cayenne Pepper & Other Spices, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 308 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Cynthia Thurlow, author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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SHOW NOTES

1:10 - LMNT: For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase! Learn All About Electrolytes In Episode 237 - Our Interview With Robb Wolf!

3:50 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow And Use The Code CLEANFORALL20 For 20% Off PLUS Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz

Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

15:30 - BLISSY: Get Blissy In Tons Of Colors, And Risk-Free For 60 Nights, At Blissy.Com/Ifpodcast, With The Code IFPODCAST For 30% Off!

18:20 - Listener Q&A: Priya - what is the best time to exercise when you are doing intermittent fasting?

22:30 - Listener Q&A: Melanie - Alternative forms of birth control pros and cons of each.

22:30 - Listener Q&A: Sarah - What do you think about copper IUDs?

22:30 - Listener Q&A: Terri - What is the effect of fasting on birth control?

31:20 - Listener Q&A: Alani - Would you please please please provide a list of the vitamins and supplements etc. that you take daily or weekly. Just curious.

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #149 - Chris Masterjohn

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The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #171 - Dr. Nayan Patel

Go To melanieavalon.com/auro With Coupon Code Melanieavalon For 5% Off Site Wide!

ATRANTIL: Use The Link lovemytummy.com/ifp With The Code IFP, To Get 10% Off!

Get A FREE 1 Year Supply Of Immune-Supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE Travel Packs With Your First Purchase At athleticgreens.com/ifpodcast

Go To melanievalon.com/sleepremedy And Use the code MELANIEAVALON for 10% Off!!

Check out Cynthia's line of supplements at cynthiathurlow.com

53:10 - NUTRISENSE: Get $30 Off A CGM Program At nutrisense.io/ifpodcast With The Code IFPODCAST

56:00 - Listener Q&A: Amy - Can you talk about seeds that help with hormones?

59:35 - Listener Q&A: Kara - Cayenne Pepper & Other Spices 

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified healthcare provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 308 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I’m Melanie Avalon, biohacker and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine. I’m here with my cohost, Cynthia Thurlow, Nurse Practitioner and author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: A 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and cynthiathurlow.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it’s that time and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi friends. I'm about to tell you how to get my favorite electrolytes for free, yes completely free. The more I do research, the more health books I read, the more people I interview, something keeps coming up again and again, and that is the importance of electrolytes. Electrolytes facilitate hundreds of functions in the body, this includes the conduction of nerve impulses, hormonal regulation, nutrient absorption, and fluid balance. If you don't have your electrolytes in line, best case scenario, you're not going to perform at your best. Worst case scenario, you're going to feel pretty awful. When your electrolytes are out of balance, you can experience things like headaches, muscle cramps, fatigue, sleeplessness, and many other unpleasant symptoms. How do we lose electrolytes? Well, when you sweat, the primary electrolyte lost is sodium. Athletes can lose up to 7 grams per day. Also, when people go on keto diets, that also often results in depleted electrolytes, and may be responsible for something called the, "keto flu." 

Also, if you're not feeling well while fasting, that could be a problem with electrolytes. Here's the other problem on top of the electrolyte problem. Most of the electrolyte mixes on the market are nothing, I would personally want to put in my body. Thankfully, I found LMNT. LMNT has none of the junk, no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients, no gluten, no fillers, no BS. It contains a science-packed electrolyte ratio 1000 mg of sodium, 200 mg of potassium, and 60 mg of magnesium. LMNT is used by everyone from NBA, NFL, and NHL players to Olympic athletes to Navy SEALS to exercise enthusiasts to everyday moms and dads to people like me, and potentially you. The experience I've had of being electrolyte depleted and then having an LMNT packet was like the feeling of coming alive. Like, "Oh, the lights just turned on." It truly is incredible. 

Friends, I work with a lot of brands. LMNT is one of the brands where people randomly just tell me all the time how obsessed they are. LMNT offers no questions asked refunds, so you can try it totally risk free. If you don't like it, share it with a salty friend and they will give your money back, no questions asked. You have nothing to lose. Right now, LMNT is offering our listeners a free sample pack with any purchase. That's eight single serving packets free with any LMNT order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors or share LMNT with a salty friend. Get yours at drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T dotcom/ifpodcast. Stay salty. 

And one more thing before we jump in, are you fasting clean inside and out? When it comes to weight loss, we focus a lot on what and when we eat. It makes sense because these foods affect our hormones and how our bodies store and burn fat. But do you know what is possibly one of the most influential factors in weight gain? It's not your food and it's not fasting, it's actually our skincare and makeup. As it turns out, Europe has banned over a thousand compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup in the US due to their toxicity. These include endocrine disrupters, which mess with your hormones, carcinogens linked to cancer, and obesogens which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight. Basically, when we're using conventional skincare and makeup, we are giving these obesogenic compounds direct access to our bloodstream.

And then in our bodies, studies have shown they do things like reduce our satiety hormones, increase our hunger hormones, make fat cells more likely to store fat, and more resistant to burning fat, and so much more. If you have stubborn fat, friends, your skincare and makeup maybe playing a role in that. Beyond weight gain and weight loss, these compounds have very detrimental effects on our health and they affect the health of our future generations. That's because ladies, when we have babies, a huge percent of those toxic compounds go through the placenta into the newborn. It is so, so shocking and the effects last for years. 

Conventional lipstick, for example, often tests high in lead and the half-life of lead is up to 30 years. That means when you put on some conventional lipstick, 30 years later maybe half of that lead has left your bones. On top of that, there is essentially no regulation of these products on the shelves. That’s why it’s up to us to choose brands that are changing this. The brand that is working the hardest to do this is Beautycounter. They were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, so you can truly feel good about what you put on. And friends, these products really, really work. They are incredible. They have counter time for anti-aging, counter match for normal skin, counter control for acne and oily prone, and counter start for sensitive. I use their Overnight Resurfacing Peel and vitamin C serum every single night of my life. And their makeup is amazing. Check out my Instagram to see what it looks like. Tina Fey, even wore all Beautycounter makeup when she hosted The Golden Globes. So, yes, it is high-definition camera ready. They have so many other products, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, products for babies and so much more.

You can shop with us at beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. Also, make sure to get on my Clean Beauty email list. That’s at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list, so definitely check it out. You can join me in my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share their experiences, ask questions, give product reviews, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well.

And lastly, if you’re thinking of making Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare a part of your future like we have, we definitely recommend becoming a Band of Beauty member. It’s sort of like Amazon Prime for Clean Beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. It is totally, completely worth it. So, again to shop with us, go to beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. And we’ll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 308 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Cynthia Thurlow. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Hey, Melanie. How are you? 

Melanie Avalon: I'm good. I want to tell you about something fun that I did and I'm super curious your thoughts on this type of experience. I know you have a lot of professional photos, obviously. How do you feel about doing photoshoots? Do you enjoy them? Do you not like them? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, come on. I'm an introvert. What do you think? [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: Not a fan? [chuckles] 

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, it's a necessary evil, if you have to think about it that way, I have one plan for April and I think I finally found a really amazing photographer who gets my aesthetic that I want. And so, I'm very relaxed around her. I'm very comfortable, but no, I don't love it, not one bit. [laughs] Here's the thing, in the context of having a website and social media and all these things, it's just a necessary part of the business. But as an introvert, it is not my favorite thing I do. I spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out what to wear and what to do, [laughs] it's a lot of time. How about you? 

Melanie Avalon: Well, it's funny. So historically, acting is what I do, which is very much an on-camera thing. I was having a really long conversation with my friend about this last night, and he couldn't understand. So, I did a photoshoot yesterday and I've been needing to get a lot of photos, especially now that I'm doing more and more press-related stuff, I just need good photos for that. I think the hardest part you mentioned it briefly, but finding a photographer that you're really comfortable with, I think is half the battle. So, ended up shooting with this woman, actually, I can give her name. So, if you're in Atlanta, her name is Adrian Louise Photography and I haven't seen the photos yet. While taking the photos, I saw them small on the camera. But I think I'm going to be really happy with them. So, I'm really excited about that. I can do selfies because you see yourself, so I can pose. I can do acting because I'm not thinking about what I look like. With photoshoots, I find it so stressful because I'm not acting, I'm not doing a selfie so I can't see myself, and I can't make my selfie face when I can't see myself for some reason, I make a different face. The way around it, "Oh, my goodness." [chuckles] My trick around it is that if I have a mirror on the set, so if I can see myself in the mirror while they're taking the photos, I can do a lot better. Or if there's not a mirror, I hold my mirror in my hand so right before she takes the photos, I pose like my selfie pose and then I look at the camera and that works really well for me.

I'm just reflecting on how much this is like a first world problems thing. [chuckles] I used to feel really subconscious about doing that because I've been doing that for years and then people might be tuning out by now. [chuckles] Paris Hilton, who takes take a note of really legit, amazing photo shoots, I found a video of her talking and she's talking about how she does the same thing, that she has to have a mirror on the set because that's the only way she can pose. And then I felt so vindicated, I was like, okay, this is a completely normal habit. I could have my mirrors on the set and do my selfie pose and then take the photo. That is my suggestion to listeners if they need to do a photo shoot and they find that they can take photos of themselves, but they can't with a photographer. Just bring your phone and pretend you're taking a selfie and then look at the camera [laughs] and you're good to go. But I'm really really happy with how it turned out. We shot at a studio that was super cool. It was like all white and they had all these different sets like a fireplace and a bed and a kitchen. So, I think I got a lot of content and I think I'm just going to book more sessions with her for ongoing, but I was so stressed about it. I don't know if you get stressed leading up to them.

Cynthia Thurlow: I don't. I think because I've done this so much that I know I've got characteristic things that, we took my last set of photos in my neighborhood and in my house because I have a very clean design aesthetic and so it really was great backdrop for the photos and so were talking about options. She doesn't live in the state I'm in, but she's actually going to come in for the photos again, but I trust her implicitly. I think a lot of it's just feeling comfortable and for me, I'm not like a selfie person. I think a lot of it's the introverted side of myself. It's not a lack of confidence. It's just much like I wasn't doing IG live while I was on vacation, was that there has to be a separation, like some degree of privacy in my life. So, I accept that photos are part of the brand and the marketing and the business. I'm glad that you found someone you felt so comfortable with and you had a really good experience. 

Melanie Avalon: Speaking to the self-conscious piece, I am still very self-conscious about selfies, I think because they feel very egocentric. They're just like, look at me. Every time I take a selfie, I feel like I have this ego issue around it where I feel like it's very stuck up. So, I need to channel my sister. She's so good at it. She's like, "What does it matter? Nobody cares. Just do you?" Yeah. The whole photography world is really really interesting. So, I'm glad to have that behind me. Anything new with you? 

Cynthia Thurlow: No. I just found out I'm speaking at an event that I applied for in December. So A4M is one of the functional medical conferences. I was just invited to speak, which is super exciting, which means I'll be in Florida in May, talking about metabolic health which is really my focus, and my drive, and ways to improve upon that. I've been reading some really interesting research on individuals that are obese or overweight and are still insulin sensitive. I really pitched that concept because there's solid research talking about, what are the predictors for individuals that will then go on to develop fulminant hyperinsulinemia aka insulin resistance? What are the things that predict that insulin sensitivity will be lost? So, that's been really interesting and that's actually what I'm presenting about in Denver.

Melanie Avalon: That's a very cool topic.

Cynthia Thurlow: It's really interesting because I think even as a clinician, we make assumptions that if you're obese, then you must have lost insulin sensitivity and that's actually not the case in specific individuals. Some of its age related, but there are key metrics that we can use to measure, like whether it's looking at fatty infiltration in the liver or looking at skeletal muscle. I mean there's a lot of different metrics we can look at to determine whether or not someone is still insulin sensitive. 

Melanie Avalon: It's interesting, too. It's on the flipside, you can have the opposite like the Asian population that tends to be thinner. 

Cynthia Thurlow: The genotype. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, thinner, but they have the metabolic issues. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, and it's interesting. My cousin that I was with in London, she's a physician. She's married to someone who is American, but is of Indian descent. And we were talking because she's familiar with this thrifty genotype. We were talking about how her views with her patients and talking to people just don't assume that someone who's thin is still insulin sensitive. Because Southeast Asians and Asians, they have an ability to become insulin resistant at a much leaner mass than Americans. And so they suspect that some of it is related to that thrifty genotype. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I find this all so fascinating. Awesome. Well, I wish you the best with all of that. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Thank you. 

Melanie Avalon: Super cool. 

Hi, friends. You guys know I am obsessed with sleep. Who knew that having a better pillowcase is a key factor in practicing self-care while you sleep? Well, actually, I've known this for a while. [chuckles] That's why I've been obsessed with silk pillowcases and why I was thrilled to find Blissy. So, sleep temperature is key to a good night's rest, and silk is what can help you accomplish that as well as being incredible for your hair and skin. Silk is breathable, moisture wicking and gentle, and its temperature regulating because it has natural insulating properties. Silk is also what is best for your hair and skin. It reduces frizz, tangles, and prevents breakages. That was actually the initial reason I first tried silk pillowcases years ago, like, maybe a decade ago. That's because it keeps the moisture in your hair and keeps your skin care products and natural moisture on your skin compared to cotton, for example, which literally absorbs it off of your face. 

If you'd like to say goodbye to wrinkles and dry, flaky red skin in the morning and sleep with a better temperature and wake up with healthier shinier hair, you need silk. But here's the thing, there are a lot of dupes out there that claim they are silk alternatives by being satin, but that is not the case. Satin is made from synthetic fibers like polyester, while silk is a luxurious all-natural fiber, no microplastics. Blissy makes pillowcases that are 100% mulberry silk, which is also naturally hypoallergenic, so you can sleep more comfortably without itching or rashes. And something really amazing about Blissy, they are the highest quality silk, and they are machine washable and durable. In the past, I've ordered silk pillowcases on Amazon and then the instructions literally said don't wash them. I was like, "Okay, that's really confusing. What do I do?" I have gifted so many Blissy pillowcases to so many people as well as their other products because, yes, they have a lot of other incredible things. 

I am obsessed with their robe. Please check that out. I promise you friends, Blissy silk pillowcases are the best ones on the market. They have a ton of different prints and colors, and they make great gifts because there's an option for literally anyone. Yes, men love them, too. They have over 1.5 million raving fans and you could be next. Try now risk free for 60 nights at blissy.com/ifpodcast and get an additional 30% off that's B-L-I-S-S-Y dotcom slash ifpodcast and use the code IFPODCAST to get an additional 30% off. You'll wake up feeling better than ever. I'll put all this information in the show notes.

Melanie Avalon: Shall we jump into questions for today? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes. Okay. This is from Priya. "Dear IF podcast, I'm a lover of intermittent fasting and I've tried it several times throughout my life seeing the benefits. I was wondering what is the best time to exercise when you are doing intermittent fasting? I recently joined spin cycle in the morning and started having breakfast afterwards. I wish to fast until 12:00 PM as I normally do, but I don't know if it is unhealthy to not eat within one to two hours after exercising." Thank you so much for any advice and help, Priya.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome, Priya. Well, thank you so much for your question. Actually, last week I was talking about how I recently interviewed Thomas DeLauer. I know he talks a lot about this and we talked about this in the interview as well and we've talked a lot about this on the show. But there are so many fears out there about exercise and eating and when you need to eat and do you need to eat before exercise to fuel it? Do you need to eat right after exercise to recover from it? Long story short about both of those questions and I realize you're asking about after, but I will talk about both. The long story short is that eating before to fuel when you're fat adapted not necessary typically, especially with things like more fat burning mode-type things, so lower steady state cardio and things like that. Even with weights and using your muscles, you can do those in a fasted state as well. On the flipside, with eating afterwards, no, you do not have to eat right after. 

That was one of the things that Thomas talks about in his book is that right after exercising, you've really got this upregulated fat burning that if you eat right afterwards, if that's your goal, you're kind of shutting that off rather than continuing to burn fat after the exercise. No, you don't have to eat right afterwards. That would be for the fat burning cardio type stuff, but then for the spin cycle which she's doing, for muscle building, you also actually don't have to eat right after. The anabolic window for protein for muscle recovery is actually 24 hours. The stimulus for the muscles that you activate from that exercise lasts for quite a while and you don't have to eat right afterwards. All that said, major caveat if you're a bodybuilder, if your thing is building muscle [chuckles] that's what you do, they do have more tailored regimens surrounding protein intake. So, if you have very specific goals, it might be a little bit different. But as for the everyday person, you don't need to eat right after. Your thoughts, Cynthia. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I would 100% agree and I've asked Gabrielle Lyon this several times about, is there this anabolic window, this magic window after exercise? I agree wholeheartedly it's what you consume in a 24-hour period of time. I think for anyone that's new to fasting, they may not exercise very effectively if they're not fat adapted in a fasted state. But I do find that it really depends for most women where they are in their menstrual cycle. They might be able to work out really intensely in their follicular phase and they may feel like when they head into their luteal phase, they just can't go two to three plus hours after exercising. So, I think part of it is just the awareness that you can exercise fasted if your fat adapted and then also understanding that you really want to fast for your menstrual cycle, especially as it pertains to exercise and when you should open up your feeding window.

Melanie Avalon: So glad you tend to that. Yes, that's something that you definitely know a ton about. Awesome. And then speaking of something you know a ton about, we have quite a few questions. I'm just going to read all of them. They all involve birth control, so we're going to have a birth control talk. First question is actually from Melanie, but not from me, a different Melanie. She wants to know the alternative forms of birth control. What are the pros and cons of each? Sarah wants to know, what do you think about copper IUDs? She says, I've had mine for seven years, but I want to get it removed. I've heard it can interfere with hormones, even though it doesn't contain hormones. Love to hear your thoughts. Terry says, we have heard a lot about PCOS, menopause, and perimenopause and fasting. What about those of us in their 30s and 40s who are still on birth control? Personally, I'm on Depo-Provera and 47, I've been in clean fasting for two years. What is the effect of fasting on birth control? Also, what can a woman expect as they enter perimenopause years but have no intention of going off of birth control? I don't want a perimenopause baby. I'm also happily married for the last seven years and we have both made the choice that children are not part of our lives. We have tons of nieces and nephews. Love the show and I've been a listener since starting IF two years ago. All right, birth control.

Cynthia Thurlow: This is the birth control trifecta. First and foremost, there is no shame in utilizing birth control whether you are peak fertile years or perimenopause, heading into menopause. I think the real thing is to identify like, what have been the birth control methods that I think women have had the easiest time tolerating without too much inconvenience. I would say, number one, the copper IUD seems to be really well tolerated. Obviously, it's not a forever item. It does have to be explanted and then a new one implanted. I would say in terms of ease of use, I'm not going to be a teetotaler here and say, "Okay, every woman needs to use condoms." I think that probably works for some people. Obviously, diaphragms and cervical caps, sponges, suppositories, there are some options that include they call it FAMs or Fertility Awareness Methods, and obviously Daysy is one of them. It's a tracker that tells you when you are most fertile. I have found that has been very helpful for a lot of people. If you don't have particularly regular cycles, I think a copper IUD nonhormonal is a nice option. But I think it really comes down to what interests you.

I know that there are a lot of women still in perimenopause that are using oral contraceptives, Depo-Provera is birth control that's implanted usually in the arm. I haven't seen a lot of Depo-Provera used in the last five, ten years, but that doesn't mean that it's not a reasonable option. But I think this really comes down to what stage of life you're in. What your partner is willing to do. Vasectomies are pretty straightforward and that's usually what I generally recommend. If people don't want to be on hormones, they don't want to be having hormones implanted. And so, I really think it comes down to life stage decision making and working in conjunction with your GYN or your midwife or whomever you see for, Well Women care to determine what works best for you. But there is absolutely, positively no shame if you decide that you want to use synthetic hormones or oral contraceptives that is certainly your choice and your option. I do like some of these other options that I identified and I think a copper IUD might be one of my favorite options. And ironically enough, Huberman Lab. I was listening to one of his recent podcasts with Dr. Sara Gottfried and ironically enough, she was saying that's one of her favorite forms of contraception to recommend to women who have not yet gone through menopause. 

Melanie Avalon: Wow. Does fasting specifically have any effect on any of it? 

Cynthia Thurlow: On fertility? Oh, absolutely. 

Melanie Avalon: No, on birth control, Terry wants to know what is the effect of fasting on birth control? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, there are a couple of different things that fasting can impact and it can absolutely impact fertility. So, if you're over fasting, it could diminish the likelihood that you are going to get pregnant. I remind women that even if you're choosing not to have children, if you're not eating enough food, if you're over fasting, overexercising, over restricting, you can send very powerful messages to your brain that can cause you to lose your menstrual cycle entirely. There are some pretty widespread effects of not having adequate estrogen levels in your body during peak bone and muscle mass building years. And so, I think that in the context of someone who's eating a healthy diet, even if they're fasting, they're not overexercising, they're taking care of themselves, fasting can be a nice strategy, but it's impossible for me to say in the context of Terry's situation what her fasting schedule may be doing to her particular menstrual cycle or her fertility. Because she's not my patient, so I think that's probably a conversation worth having with her GYN or her primary care provider. I would say that more often than not when I see women that are getting closer to menopause, she's 47, so kind of the towards the end stage, mid to end stage of perimenopause that there are things that you can look for. But obviously, if you're on oral contraceptives or you're on Depo-Provera, it would make those labs harder to interpret. 

Melanie Avalon: Got you, got you, got you. I learned a lot. All of my thoughts surrounding this question are not really helpful about the actual question. They're just my thoughts on issues relating or on things that happen related to birth control. Like, I was actually on birth control-- I was put on birth control in high school for acne-

Cynthia Thurlow: It's so common. 

Melanie Avalon: -and just looking back, I just don't know that that's the route I would have gone. I don't know that was the best thing for me. I don't think they make YAZ anymore. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. YAZ is probably gone. It's interesting because I was someone that probably had very mild PCOS, like, I never had regular cycles. But back in the 80s and 90s, everyone got put on oral contraceptives, so you missed the opportunity to really fully understand what they were doing. And now you have a whole generation of women who missed out on peak bone and muscle mass. I think that a lot of women mean if they had received fully informed consent, I wish I had because I've been osteopenic for intermittently throughout my adult lifetime. My functional medicine doc and I believe pretty fervently that a lot of it was many years of being on oral contraceptives. Where you're kept in a very low estrogen, low progesterone and you're receiving synthetic hormones kept in the state that really potentially could have exacerbated missing out on those opportunities to really build peak bone and muscle mass.

Melanie Avalon: Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah. I mean, just looking back at my experience and I know this is hard to understand now because I'm very thin now. But just if you look at my high school pictures from before being on the birth control and then going on the birth control, I rapidly gained a lot of weight and you can really see it. And just like it was doing something hormonally. I don't think I needed to be experiencing that, especially not for the purpose of acne, which I don't know, I just think it's an issue. Although like you said, there's probably much more awareness surrounding it now maybe with teenagers and acne. Do if that's still a thing?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I think it's still being used off label for that. I think the other piece is how many women come to me as clients that are on oral contraceptives in the latter stages of perimenopause and even into menopause who are terrified to stop. Because they've been on it for so long including my best friend from high school who is still on the pill. I keep telling her, I'm like, you are probably in menopause, [laughs] but I think that's for many people, they've just been on it forever and they don't know any differently. I was on it, gosh, until I was married, and then I went off, and then I just expected getting pregnant to be really easy. And I really think the pill masked what was always probably there that I had mild PCOS, like, I have thin phenotype PCOS and so it's a whole rabbit hole.

Melanie Avalon: Wow, wow.

Cynthia Thurlow: There you go, listeners. You got a whole bunch of TMI. 

Melanie Avalon: I thought that was very helpful, very educational. Thank you. All righty, so shall we go on to our next question? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes, and this is from Alani. This is one of the AMA questions. "Would you please, please, please provide a list of the vitamins and supplements that you take daily or weekly? Just curious."

Melanie Avalon: Okay, two hesitations about this question. [chuckles] One, I know this might come as a surprise. Actually, it might not because I say it a lot, but for those who have not heard me say it before, might come as a surprise because I have a supplement line. That said, I actually think in the dreamworld we would get the majority of our nutrients from food and we wouldn't even need supplements. Now I actually am going to go down a rabbit hole that I see myself going down. Are you familiar with Marion Nestle? She wrote a book called Food Politics, all about how the food industry affects mostly like, dietary guidelines, and consumer relations with food, and how we are sold all these processed foods and stuff. She's like a really big deal. She's one of those guests that I got connected to completely through a friend, like a friend was just, "You should interview her and I was like, okay." She's so cool. 

Like, Time Magazine named her a while ago because it was one, what's her name was had not fallen from grace, Elizabeth Holmes. It's when Elizabeth Holmes was on the rise. Time Magazine named her, Elizabeth Holmes, and two Nobel Prize people or something as having the most impact on something related to health and everything, which is very cool. So, the reason I'm talking about all this, she talks about-- This blew my mind because I'm reading her memoir, just came out, so that's why I'm interviewing her. I think she's like in her 80s maybe now. She talks about when she first had her epiphany about how the dietary recommendations were created for vitamins and stuff and it's shocking. She went and actually read the actual studies and when they went and decided these recommendations for every vitamin that hasn't changed, recommendations haven't really changed. 

They're based on the two examples she gave, was, I think, maybe B12--. What was it? It was one of the B vitamins and then I don't know one other vitamin. It was literally an insane asylum. A very small amount of patients and giving them the adequate amount, I think it might have been like niacin. giving them the adequate amount of this nutrient versus not and did it improve their behavior? Literally, [chuckles] it's the most awfully constructed inconclusive study ever. You have a very small amount of patients with mental health issues and you're going to evaluate, do they have more or less mental health issues if they're getting this more of this nutrient? That's a whole tangent. I've been learning a lot from her books. She's basically the reason that there is now, nutrition policy type-related studies and stuff in college. So, I've really been enjoying her books. That was a whole tangent. 

I think the point of it was that I've also interviewed Chris Masterjohn, and we talked a lot about the RDAs and stuff. And it's just very interesting vitamins, that's the point of all this. Vitamins are interesting in what is proposed to us as to what we need and is it too much, is it too little? Some vitamins depending on what type they are, can actually store up, so there's a potential for toxicity. Some vitamins and minerals, most people are probably deficient in, like magnesium. And then just the supplement industry in general, I think that's something else she talks about a ton is the regulations of the supplement industry versus the food industry and how that all works. The supplement industry in general is just very-- I just don't really trust it, which is the reason that I think both Cynthia and I started. At least I don't want to speak for you, Cynthia, but that's a main reason that I started mine is I just don't really trust anything on the market. So, I wanted to feel good about what I was putting in my body. That's my big disclaimer before answering this. 

The second disclaimer is that hands down, what I take is not a plan that everybody should take. We are so individual, so people have really got to find what they need and what works for them, and it's all unique. So, I give my examples and if Cynthia gives hers, please don't copy us verbatim, please. So, first of all, when it comes to vitamins, I would actually do testing for things like fat soluble vitamins to see where you're at with them. Especially something like vitamin D, I think a lot of people, if not most people are deficient, but that's something that you actually can test. For example, I went through a period where I was like, I'm going to get all the vitamin D and I found with using InsideTracker that I often get high with vitamin D because I kind of go overboard. But I do take some vitamin D, I used to take methylated B vitamins, I don't anymore. Nutrient wise though, magnesium, I think it's so important. I really think it's the one mineral that most people are deficient in. That's why I made my Magnesium 8, which is eight different forms of magnesium in their most potent form with no problematic fillers. That's the AvalonX Magnesium 8, so I take that.

I also take a lot of magnesium not for the vitamin potential, but for the bowel moving potential because I'll get constipation, so I find that taking magnesium citrate individually can really help. Also, there's this, it's called Mag O7, I really want to make my own version of it, so stay tuned. I plan to, but in the meantime, I take it because it's really good to help keep things moving along. I'm trying to think other vitamins like nutrient wise. In the past, I took some selenium, I don't anymore. I really like ENERGYbits, so Spirulina, Chlorella for their broad-spectrum minerals and vitamins. I also plan to make my own of that as well, so stay tuned. The supplements I really really take that I love, obviously, I'm obsessed with my serrapeptase. I've been taking that every single day for years and years and years. I'm just really happy because the version I've made is so much better than what I was taking. So, that's a proteolytic enzyme that breaks down problematic proteins and can help with inflammation and clear your sinuses and reduce cholesterol. It's even been shown to break down amyloid plaque.

When Gin was hosting the show, she took it to get rid of her fibroids. So, I love that. I take berberine every day. Oh, this is something I wanted to share. Okay, I'm glad we're talking about this. This is an update I had. I've been taking berberine for a while now and I've worn a lot of CGMs while taking berberine. Actually, started taking berberine one of the first times that I wore CGM because I wanted to see how it affected my blood sugar levels. I used to take Thorne, and so I was taking it and I did see an effect on my fasting blood sugar levels since switch. I'm so excited and happy about this because when I made my own version, I knew that it would be a high superiority, high potency, it wouldn't have problematic fillers, it's in a glass bottle. It's the berberine that I wanted to be taking. 

I wasn't sure if I would see any difference though on my actual blood sugar levels. So, I am honestly shocked. I wore CGM and it was the first time wearing it while taking my brand of berberine. So, AvalonX Berberine 500, my postprandial blood sugar levels are consistently down by 20 points, which is shocking to me. I mean it shouldn't be because [chuckles] that's what berberine can help with. It was really shocking for me to see that intense of a difference and it's very consistent. Historically, after I would eat my meal, because I eat a very high carb meal every night, like pounds of fruit. And so historically, my blood sugar would go from before eating it would usually be in the 70s or 80s, and then it would bump up to anywhere between the 120s, 130s, sometimes 140. Now, it rarely goes above 110, maybe up to 120, but the average is probably reduction of 20 points. So, I mean, I'm blown away by this. That's something I take every day and then I'm just running through my head, is there anything else? Oh, I take Atrantil still every day, that's amazing if you have digestive issues, it really really helps me. You can get it at lovemytummy.com/ifp, it was created by Dr. Ken Brown, who I had on my show way back in the day. Wow, that makes my show feel really old because I feel like it was forever ago that I interviewed him. But he made Atrantil, it's like a combination of different all natural herbal things, polyphenols that actually specifically attack the type of bacteria that's connected to SIBOs, the methane-producing bacteria. Actually, I don't think it's bacteria, I think it's archaebacteria, which are actually not bacteria, the Archaea, they're a different type of organism. 

In any case, it can really help with that especially if you have something like SIBO and it can help with motility issues, so I love that. There is something else that I'm forgetting. I'm going through in my head. Oh, of course, at night I also take NMN, as long as it's on the market to support NAD levels. And then I also do NAD injections once a week that I really like. Ever since interviewing Nayan Patel for his book The Glutathione Revolution, I've been taking his glutathione spray. I mean, he really [chuckles] convinced me about not only the benefits of glutathione, but also that liposomal glutathione is probably completely a waste of money, as is glutathione drips, as is glutathione pushes. It doesn't actually get into the cells. It is just like in and out with the bloodstream. I understand that he has a book and a supplement line, so it could be biased. I found his research and the interview very convincing. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. 

On top of that, I asked my friend, James Clement, who I really, really trust, who has a lab where he studies the blood work of centenarians, and he as well said that it's basically useless to do glutathione drips or glutathione pushes, so save your money, friends because those are expensive. I take the Auro Wellness Glutathione Spray. So, if you go to melanieavalon.com/auro A-U-R-O and use the coupon code MELANIEAVALON that will get you 5% off site wide. So, I take that every single night. It does smell like sulfur. I use it at night, not during the day for that reason. I think it's probably very beneficial for boosting glutathione levels. Then, of course, this is not vitamins, but it is a supplement. I really, really benefit from digestive enzymes and HCl for digestive support. It helps me so much and that is something else I plan to develop in the future. I might think of more things, but I think that's the main things. You can get my magnesium, my berberine and the serrapeptase all at avalonx.us. Coupon code MELANIEAVALON will get you 10% off. You can get a 20% off code if you text AVALONX to 877-861-8318 and definitely get on the email list because I do a lot of sales and specials and all the things and that is at avalonx.us/emaillist. That was long. Cynthia, how about you?

Cynthia Thurlow: That was very comprehensive. Thank you for sharing that for brevity, because I'm sure that there are no listeners that want to hear the multiplicity of things I take. I think the most important thing to really emphasize is that it's nutrition first and then supplements. So, maybe it would be beneficial to share the things that I take at night. These are things that help support sleep. I would say first and foremost, progesterone, which is prescription, I have mine compounded. Progesterone is what is really a starting point for a lot of women navigating perimenopause when our ovaries are producing less. We get the byproduct of less circulating progesterone, impacts sleep quality, impacts anxiety and depression if you're prone to that. It also impacts our menstrual cycle so we get this relative estrogen dominance. For me, progesterone is critically important at night and I'm starting to see more clinicians that are not just using this the week prior to the menstrual cycle. Even in menopausal women, they're cycling it throughout the "month," but obviously a menopausal woman doesn't have a cycle, so progesterone is number one.

There's a product called Myo-inositol and I've been using this as a sleep piece. Myo-inositol also is beneficial for blood sugar but we know that it helps with induction of sleep, it helps stay asleep. Even Huberman Lab talks about how he uses this as part of his sleep stack. So, Myo-inositol powder prior to bedtime. You may see research on this with regard to insulin resistance, PCOS, but there's really solid research using it in otherwise metabolically healthy individuals as well. I think quite a bit about GABA and L-theanine. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. I don't per se take GABA and L-theanine every day. Really just depends on what my stress levels are like. I take things like Seriphos which is phosphatidylserine. This is a special type of healthy fat that is beneficial for brain function, but also helps reduce cortisol. So, if you are having a super stressful week, I've done quite a bit of travel over the last week. You better believe I was taking Seriphos [chuckles] while I was on the airplane and also my first night home from London.

And then I think about adaptogenic herbs, things that can beneficial, I think about ashwagandha, I think about Rhodiola rosea, I think about Relora. I don't use all of them together. I create a cocktail based on my own needs each night depending on what has to be facilitated. But I would say those are pretty commonly in conjunction with melatonin. Now I'm menopausal, so after the age of 40 our bodies start making less and less melatonin. It is also a master antioxidant and it's not just a hormone. I've interviewed many physicians on the podcast that do recommend supplementation with melatonin after the age of 40. Again, if you have concerns about this, I would discuss this with your primary care provider, GYN, etc.

I also think about creatine. Creatine, it's one of the reasons why it was one of the first supplements that I created. Very helpful for maintaining muscle mass, but also helpful for brain support and cognition and sleep quality and so creatine is always a part of my daily sleep stack. No, I don't take it prior to bed, I take it during the day. But I think it's really important to just emphasize that every person listening, the sleep foundations are still really important, so getting sunlight exposure, sleeping in a cold dark room, wearing a sleep mask if you need it, getting off electronics, wearing blue blockers if you need to be on electronics, having some type of strategy for bedtime that's more important than taking supplements.

Now, I've mentioned my favorites and obviously for full transparency, creatine is a product that I created in conjunction with MD Logic, I fervently believe in. The feedback has been phenomenal and from my perspective it's important for people to understand that sourcing of supplements is very important. You don't want to just go to Amazon and order a bunch of things. You want to make sure that you are getting pharmaceutical grade supplements and that's where I think less is more. Meaning not everyone can afford to be on 40, 50 supplements every day, that's why the nutrition is important, the lifestyle piece is important, and then layering in things that you need.

Certainly, I think about hormones if they're needed. There's no shame in that. so progesterone definitely helps us sleep. I do fervently believe that estradiol, which is the predominant form of estrogen our body makes prior to going through perimenopause and menopause and also testosterone can be helpful, but always in the context of what your body needs and getting proper testing and working with clinicians that are able to interpret testing so that they can fine tune and bio-individualize your recommendations. I also take Athletic Greens or AG1 as its new name and it's really been a great way to get more comprehensive vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics into my diet and to not have to think about multiple supplements. So, it's something that I can use in my feeding window in a shake or even just added to filtered water makes it really easy. I can get my kids to take it too willingly because it tastes really good. That has been something I've incorporated into my supplement regimen over the last several years. I wanted to make sure I mentioned that as well. 

Melanie Avalon: Just a quick comment about Athletic Greens because I historically have not taken Athletic Greens after hearing you talk about it and then I feel like Joe Rogan talks about it a lot, as does Rich Roll. I've been like, "Oh, maybe I should start taking it." If I do, I'll definitely report back because it seems to be a pretty cool way to get a broad spectrum of vitamins and minerals really easily. The reason I haven't is I'm like such a sensitive butterfly to things that it has a lot of things in it. I've been like, "Oh, what if I react to it?" I should probably at least try it and see how it goes. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I would do like at a time. For me, I can't do it every day because of the oxalates, but I do two to three days a week and I travel with them. Because I always feel like if I'm traveling, I'm probably not getting the variety of foods in my diet that I would if I were home. If I can get my kids to take it on occasion that says a lot because it actually tastes good without being sugary. I've probably tried every greens powder that's out there, most of them, it's like trying to eat grass. I'm like, "No, can't do this." 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think that's the other thing for me is I'm like I said severely allergic to grass, but I want to try it. Maybe I'll use our link. You can actually get, I think, unless their offer is changed when this airs, but you can actually get a free one-year supply of vitamin D. Oh, that's cool because I was saying that I take vitamin D. I actually have been taking their vitamin D because they sent it to me and five free travel packs with your first purchase. For that, you can go to athleticgreens.com/ifpodcast. So definitely check that out. So, glad that you emphasize and that we're on the same page about the nutrition first, food first, lifestyle stuff first for the sleep things.

I actually as well use progesterone. I use a progesterone cream. When I was first prescribed it, I was taking it orally, but I've been doing a cream ever since, and I really benefit from that. I also have another sleep one I wanted to mention I really like Dr. Kirk Parsley's Sleep Remedy. He formulated it to have all of the ingredients that your brain naturally needs to fall asleep. He formulated it after being a doctor for the Navy SEALs and realizing that they all had these issues and the one common-- and by issues, I mean health issues as well as mental health. He realized that the common factor was that none of them were sleeping. That's why he developed sleep remedy. So, it's a proprietary blend, but it has four or five different things that naturally help your body fall asleep. So, if you go to melanieavalon.com/sleepremedy, the coupon code MELANIEAVALON will get you a discount on that.

Also, just as a teaser related to it, my magnesium threonate is coming. It's going to be the next supplement. Actually, by the time this airs, because this airs March 13, it might be out, which will be crazy. If its out, really quick education surrounding it. I didn't include magnesium threonate in the original Magnesium 8 blend because magnesium threonate is a special type of magnesium that specifically crosses the blood brain barrier, and it can have effects on relaxation and sleep and mood and memory. You need a high therapeutic dose to get those benefits. So, I couldn't realistically include it in the magnesium 8 blend. I could put it in there and say, "Oh, it has magnesium threonate, but you wouldn't actually be getting the benefits." Of course, I'm not going to do that. But then on top of that, some people might want to, for those benefits, like memory, mood, sleep, relaxation have a targeted specific magnesium for that. So, my magnesium threonate nightcap hopefully might be coming out around this time. Hopefully you're getting the email list updates at avalonx.us/emaillist. Yeah, all of that just, again, end with lifestyle and diet first. And how can listeners get your supplements, Cynthia?

Cynthia Thurlow: Probably the best way is to be on the general email list. So, if you go to www.cynthiathurlow.com on the main page, you can opt in. Very likely by the time this comes out, we will have started to talk about my next supplement, which will be Myo-inositol or to make it less of a mouthful inositol. It'll be another powder. We're really excited about it. I've gotten tremendous feedback. People are really looking forward to the next supplement in our line. 

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. We will put links to all of that in the show notes.

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Melanie Avalon: I think we have time for one more question. This was also one of our AMA questions. It's from Amy. She wants to know, "Can you talk about seeds that help with hormones?" I know seed cycling is a whole thing. I know, Cynthia, you talk about it in your book Intermittent Fasting Transformation. Do you have thoughts on seeds?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. The one thing that I can tell you, these are ways that you can help support your body in multiple ways, but there's no hard and fast research. I can't tell you that there's been a randomized controlled trial on this. This is just observational and so the way that it works is the first 14 days of your cycle, from the day you start menstruating up until ovulation, you can use both flaxseeds and pumpkin seeds. These are supposed to be supportive for estrogen metabolism. And then days 15 through 28, again, we're looking at this as kind of a broad, this is a perfect menstrual cycle. You can use sunflower seeds and sesame seeds and one to two tablespoons is generally what I recommend of the seeds. Understanding that these are healthy fats, but they are also calorically dense, so don't go overboard. If you're someone that's trying to lose weight, I would probably lean towards one tablespoon each. Usually, fresh ground is what you want, you don't want to buy previously ground flaxseeds. Flaxseeds are actually very delicate and as an example, they need to be refrigerated. I typically recommend keep them in your refrigerator and then grind them as you need them.

Seed cycling is probably a good thing to utilize. I do go into greater depth about these processes in the book, but this is kind of a different way of looking at it now. Women will always say, if I don't get a regular menstrual cycle or I'm in perimenopause and my cycles are really long, I always say cycle with the moon. If there's a full moon use that as day one. And that's when you would use pumpkin and flaxseeds from day one through 14 and then day 15 through 28, which would be from 14 days after the full moon until the next full moon, you would consume sunflower seeds and sesame seeds. If you're again looking to lose weight, I would be conservative with portions and really limit it to one tablespoon each. 

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. I'm really interested by it. But. I have not done any of it, so I cannot speak to it.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I remember even back when I was still cycling, I was never organized enough. I was well [laughs] if I remember great. These are great healthy fats. You can add them to salads. You could conceivably put them in a smoothie and grind them down, but don't let it be a source of stress. Ultimately, understanding what's going on physiologically with your body is certainly important. There's no food source that's going to replace your hormones. I think that's important for people to understand. Unfortunately, I think there's been misinformation out there saying, "Oh, if you eat this food, it's going to support, it's going to be all you need for progesterone." It doesn't really work that way. You can consume foods that are beneficial in certain times of your cycle absolutely, but there's no food that's going to replace that hormone. So, I think it's important just to say that. I'm very much an optimist. I'm very much a person that respects people's personal decision making. But I just want to be transparent and say there's no significant research in this area, but I don't think these things are going to be harmful and it's a good way to get in some healthy fats. 

Melanie Avalon: I love that. Well, I said that was our last one, but I think we have time for one more. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Next question is from Kara. Subject is cayenne pepper and other spices. Hi, girls. My question is, "Is a hint of cayenne pepper, ginger powder, or cinnamon sprinkled in water still considered clean fasting? Will it break my fast? I'm new to intermittent fasting and have noticed that spicy flavors like cayenne pepper and ginger sprinkled in hot water curbs my habitual hunger cues when first starting out on IF, plus they each serve several health benefits to the body. However, I don't want to lose the effects of the fast, specifically fat loss." Thank you, Kara. 

Melanie Avalon: All right, Kara, thank you so much for your questions. I know people are going to have different opinions on this. Did she include cinnamon? She did include cinnamon because I know a lot of people are big fans of cinnamon while fasting for reducing blood sugar and things like that. I personally find, just from a theoretical perspective, these very flavor intense things. I would not have them while fasting. So, the pepper, the ginger, the cinnamon, I would include them with your meals. I did go on a really intense research tangent in the past. I was really curious about the effects on these compounds on weight loss. The research was very interesting. There actually is a lot of research on pepper and ginger and stuff increasing metabolism. What's interesting is people will often make the takeaway. They'll be like, "Oh, but it doesn't realistically make a change." Because it only leads to X amount of calories extra burned and what is that doing but I think there is something to the modulating power of if you're making your meals rich in ginger and pepper and spice, then they're becoming a more thermogenic meal in general. So, I don't know that we can just look at it as like, "Oh, you're going to burn X amount of calories extra if you eat ginger or pepper." I don't think it necessarily manifests that way. I think it might be a more holistic effect of having more, like I said, thermogenic-type meals. But as far as it goes with the fasting, I personally consider them breaking the fast. I know again, like I said, I know a lot of people really like cinnamon for lowering blood sugar. That's just my thoughts. 

That said [chuckles] to undo what I just said. I think if people find a fasting window that works for them and they have a diet and a lifestyle that's working for them and the food that's working for them, and maybe they're having these things during their fast and everything's just working. Like, who am I to say not to do that? You really have to find what works for you, even if that's not a "straight up," "clean fast," which I know might be of a controversial answer but Cynthia, what are your thoughts? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, Kara, thank you for the great question. Based on my research and I do talk about this in the book, cinnamon in particular will improve insulin sensitivity, so I wouldn't worry about that. This is obviously Melanie and I will respectfully agree to disagree on this and based on the research that I have read; cayenne pepper and ginger can upregulate autophagy and so I wouldn't be fearful. The cayenne pepper that someone else has distilled and created a spice from. I think that one thing that I have learned is that when you're looking at research and you're considering things that can be very beneficial for, as you said, the hot water curbs your hunger cues and you're first starting out, more power too. If you're enjoying cayenne pepper and ginger because they can both be pretty spicy, I think that's certainly fine. From the context of wanting to help upregulate fat loss, I'm not per se sure that they're helping with that. 

Certainly, if you're struggling to fast longer and you're finding that the ginger and cayenne pepper is helpful for that, I think that's absolutely fine. In fact, when it pertains to cinnamon, this is usually something I will recommend as people are transitioning from a fatty coffee or if they're transitioning from milk in their coffee, to understand that cinnamon will help change the flavor profile, much like if you add high quality salt like Redmond's to the coffee, it will help adjust the bitterness profile. Don't be afraid of bitter. Bitter is actually beneficial. It means there're a lot of polyphenols, there're a lot of plant-based compounds that have a ton of health benefits. So, from my perspective, I wouldn't worry about cinnamon and I certainly think if you're transitioning to fasting and you're struggling a bit with longer fasts, I don't think the cayenne pepper or ginger should be things that you need to worry about. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. To that point, I will say I think the majority of people, maybe Gin and I aside, I've seen a lot what you just said. I know Thomas DeLauer talks about it. I know Ari Whitten talks a lot about it, you talk about it. So, I think it's all really great. That was very educational and I really want people to find what works for them. So, more power to people if they're doing that and it's working and they're getting all those benefits that you discussed. So, thank you. 

Cynthia Thurlow: You're welcome. Thanks for the great question.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. So, a few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own question for this show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. These show notes will be @ifpodcast.com/episode308. Those show notes will have a full transcript, so definitely check that out. Then you can follow us on Instagram. We are @ifpodcast. I am @melanieavalon. Cynthia is @cynthia_thurlow_. Yes, I think that is all the things. Anything from you, Cynthia, before we go? 

Cynthia Thurlow: No, keep the great questions coming. I'm really enjoying the variety that everyone is asking of us. It doesn't have to just be fasting related. 

Melanie Avalon: Likewise, I cannot agree more. Okie dokie. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful and I will talk to you next week. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Sounds good. 

Melanie Avalon: Bye. 

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing a review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team, administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and re-composed by Steve Saunders. See you next week. 

[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription]

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Cynthia: cynthiathurlow.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Sep 25

Episode 284: Adrenal Fatigue, Hormetic Stress, Scent Memory, Menopause, Hormone Replacement Therapy, Tips And Tricks For New Fasters, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 284 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Cynthia Thurlow, author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

BUTCHERBOX: Grass-Fed Beef, Organic Chicken, Heritage Pork, Wild-Caught Seafood: Nutrient-Rich, Raised Sustainably The Way Nature Intended, And Shipped Straight To Your Door! For A Limited Time Go To Butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get Two, 10 Oz New York Strip Steaks And 8 Oz Of Lobster Claw And Knuckle Meat Free In Your First Order!

Bon Charge: Overexposure To Blue Light In Our Modern Environments Can Lead To Increased Anxiety, Stress, Headaches, Insomnia, And Other Health Conditions. Unlike Many “Blue Light Blocking” Glasses On The Market, Bon Charge Provides Glasses That Block The Exact Blue Wavelengths You Need To Regulate Sleep, Reduce Anxiety, And Much More! They Also Provide Different Types Of Glasses For The Time Of Day, Season, And Your Personal Electronic And Light Exposure! Go To boncharge.com And Use Coupon Code IFPODCAST To Save 15%.

AVALONX Magnesium 8: Get Melanie’s Broad Spectrum Complex Featuring 8 Forms Of Magnesium, To Support Stress, Muscle Recovery, Cardiovascular Health, GI Motility, Blood Sugar Control, Mood, Sleep, And More! Tested For Purity & Potency. No Toxic Fillers. Glass Bottle. Get on the email list to stay up to date with all the special offers and news about Melanie's new supplements at Avalonx.Us/emaillist, and use the code melanieavalon for 10% on any order at Avalonx.Us and MDlogichealth.com!

To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

BUTCHERBOX: For A Limited Time Go To butcherbox.com/ifpodcast And Get Two, 10 Oz New York Strip Steaks And 8 Oz Of Lobster Claw And Knuckle Meat Free In Your First Order.

BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow And Use The Code CLEANFORALL20 For 20% Off PLUS Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

NUTRISENSE: Get $30 Off A CGM At Nutrisense.Io/Ifpodcast With The Code IFPODCAST!

BON CHARGE: Go To boncharge.com And Use Coupon Code IFPODCAST To Save 15%.

Listener Q&A: Bo - Adrenal Fatigue & IF

Ep. 216 The Science Behind Stress and How to Create Sustainable Change with Dr. Doni Wilson

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #164 - Ari Whitten

Master Your Stress, Reset Your Health: The Personalized Program to Calm Anxiety, Boost Energy, and Beat Burnout

Listener Q&A: Gretchen - Smells

Listener Q&A: Ute - Menopause

Ep. 211 – Addressing the Root Cause of Hormonal Imbalances with Dr. Sara Gottfried

Ep. 220 A Detailed Guide To Healthy Hormones With Dr. Lara Briden

Ep. 227 The Upgrade: A Unique Perspective on Perimenopause and Menopause with Dr. Louann Brizendine

Hormone Repair Manual: Every Woman's Guide to Healthy Hormones After 40

The Hormone Cure: Reclaim Balance, Sleep and Sex Drive; Lose Weight; Feel Focused, Vital, and Energized Naturally with the Gottfried Protocol 

The Upgrade: How the Female Brain Gets Stronger and Better in Midlife and Beyond

AVALONX Magnesium 8: Get On The Email List To Stay Up To Date With All The Special Offers And News About Melanie's New Supplements At avalonx.us/emaillist, And Use The Code Melanieavalon For 10% On Any Order At Avalonx.Us And MDlogichealth.Com!

Listener Q&A: Sybil-Anne - Need help from South Africa

Listener Q&A: Cheyenne - Easing into a fast

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine, and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified health care provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 284 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Cynthia Thurlow, nurse practitioner and author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and cynthiathurlow.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this show do not constitute medical advice or treatment, and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Hi friends. I'm about to tell you how to get two grass-fed, grass-finished 10-ounce New York strips and one-half pound of sustainable wild caught lobster meat all for free. Yes, for free. So, we are huge fans around here of a company called ButcherBox. They deliver 100% grass-fed, grass-finished beef, free range organic chicken, heritage breed pork, that's really hard to find by the way, and wild caught sustainable and responsible seafood shipped directly to your door. When you become a member, you're joining a community focused on doing what's better for everyone. That includes caring about the lives of animals, the livelihoods of farmers, treating our planet with respect and enjoying deliciously better meals together. There is a lot of confusion out there when it comes to transparency regarding grazing practices, what is actually in our food, how animals are being treated. I did so much research on ButcherBox. You can actually check out my blog post all about it at melanieavalon.com/butcherbox. But I am so grateful for all of the information that I learned about their company. 

All of their beef is 100% grass-fed and grass-finished, that's really hard to find. They work personally with all the farmers to truly support the regenerative agriculture system. I also did an interview with Robb Wolf on my show, the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, all about the massive importance of supporting regenerative agriculture for the sustainability of not only ourselves, but the planet. This is so important to me. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. The value is incredible. The average cost is actually less than $6 per meal, and it's so easy. Everything ships directly to your door. I am a huge steak lover. Every time I go to a restaurant, I usually order the steak. Oh, my goodness, the ButcherBox steaks are amazing. 

We are so excited because ButcherBox, has an incredible offer just for our audience. You can get some of those steaks for free and lobster to go with it. You can go to butcherbox.com/ifpodcast and get two 10-ounce grass-fed, grass-finished New York strips and one-half pounds of wild caught sustainably raised lobster meat, all for free in your first box. Yes, completely free. That's butcherbox.com/ifpodcast and we'll put all this information in the show notes. One more thing before we jump in.

Are you fasting clean inside and out? When it comes to weight loss, we focus a lot on what and when we eat? It makes sense because these foods affect our hormones and how our bodies store and burn fat. But do you know what is possibly, one of the most influential factors in weight gain and it's not your food and it's not fasting, it's actually our skincare and makeup. As it turns out, Europe has banned over 1000 compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup in the US due to their toxicity. These include endocrine disrupters, which mess with your hormones, carcinogens linked to cancer and obesogens which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight. 

Basically, when we're using conventional skincare and makeup, we are giving these obesogenic compounds direct access to our bloodstream. And then in our body's studies have shown they do things, like reduce our satiety hormones, increase our hunger hormones, make fat cells more likely to store fat and more resistant to burning fat, and so much more. If you have stubborn fat, friends, your skincare and makeup maybe playing a role in that. Beyond weight gain and weight loss, these compounds have very detrimental effects on our health and they affect the health of our future generations. That's because ladies when we have babies, a huge percent of those toxic compounds go through the placenta into the newborn. It is so shocking and the effects last for years. Conventional lipstick for example, often tests high in lead and the half-life of lead is up to 30 years. That means when you put on some conventional lipstick 30 years later, maybe half of that lead has left your bones, on top of that there is essentially no regulation of these products on the shelves. That's why it's up to us to choose brands that are changing this. 

The brand that is working the hardest to do this is Beautycounter. They were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient is extensively tested to be safe for your skin so you can truly feel good about what you put on. And, friends, these products really, really work, they are incredible. They have counter time for anti-aging, counter match for normal skin, counter control for acne and oily prone, and counter start for sensitive. I use their overnight resurfacing peel and vitamin C serum every single night of my life. Their makeup is amazing, check out my Instagram to see what it looks like. Tina Fey, even wore all Beautycounter makeup when she hosted the Golden Globes. So, yes, it is high-definition camera ready. They have so many other products, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, products for babies and so much more. 

You can shop with us at beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow. Use the coupon code CLEAN for all 20, to get 20% off your first order. Also make sure to get on my clean beauty email list that's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list. Definitely check it out, and you can join me in my Facebook group Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share their experiences, ask questions, give product reviews, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well. 

Lastly, if you're thinking of making Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare a part of your future, like we have, we definitely recommend becoming a band of beauty member. It’s sort of like the Amazon Prime for Clean Beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. It is totally completely worth it. So again, to shop with us, go to beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code CLEAN for all 20 to get 20% off your first order. We'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Hi, everybody, and welcome. This is Episode number 284 of the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with Cynthia Thurlow.

Cynthia Thurlow: Hi, Melanie, how are you? 

Melanie Avalon: I'm good. How about you? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Doing well, doing all the things. All the mom things, we're heading into week three of the school year and I feel maybe everything's-- the kids are getting settled back into a routine, I have a new driver in the household with exceedingly exorbitantly expensive car insurance, just to be able to allow him to drive, it's insane. He doesn't even have a car. 

Melanie Avalon:  But just because of the demographics that he falls into.

Cynthia Thurlow: Correct. We had to have a whole discussion about that. I was like it's the outliers of the population that generally are the ones that are more likely to have accidents, and especially young males, which is what you are. 

Melanie Avalon:  It's interesting that there's not more political backlash about stereotyping with insurance companies, even though it's based on data. But that could be a thing, that could be like a cancel the insurance companies. 

Cynthia Thurlow: We're fortunate. We have USAA because my father was many years ago served in the navy during Vietnam. I told my husband, "It'd be way worse if we didn't have USAA." So, I don't even want to complain however, I said, I'm not stressing about this, because our wonderful 17-year-old is going to pay for his own insurance he has a certain amount he has to pay us every month and I feel like I'm teaching him some degree of responsibility. You should have seen the expression on his face when we said, "This is what you will owe us every month." He was like, "What?" I was like, "Yes, and you have a job and you have money in savings and I know how much you have in your savings; you can totally afford this."

Melanie Avalon: Wow. Nice, sets him up for life. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Exactly. 

Melanie Avalon: I've been having an interesting experience related to something that our audience loves. I forgot how often do you wear CGMs? Do you wear the one all the time still?

Cynthia Thurlow: No, probably the first 18 months I wore them near continuously. During the book launch, I just found that I would get like excited when I had press to do or podcasts or media work to do, but I would just watch my cortisol go up and my blood sugar would go up and it was like up down, up down all day long, so I didn't wear them for about two to three months. This summer I've had maybe once a month I've been wearing it, but I think I definitely have a better sense now of where I need to be in terms of my macros and managing my stress. So, to answer your question, there's a lot of utility but I don't wear it as much as I did two years ago. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I was similar. When I first started using them a year ago or a year and a half ago, I went months [laughs] having one on all the time. Now it had been a while, but I actually reconnected with a friend from high school who comes here to Atlanta and she's into all of this stuff. So, we decided to put one on together and make a Reel and all of that stuff. So, this is the first time I'm wearing one. And for listeners who are not familiar, a CGM is a Continuous Glucose Monitor, it goes on your skin, super painless to put on and it measures your interstitial fluid to continuously measure your blood glucose levels, which can be incredible to see how you react to food and fasting and exercise. And as Cynthia, was talking about, adrenaline are stressful situations. But in any case, so I haven't worn one in about a year, and my blood sugar control seems to be substantially better from a year ago. I don't know if this is what it is, but I think it might be all the Emsculpt that I did, that I've been doing, building muscle.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I mean it makes sense, you know insulin sensitivity.

Melanie Avalon:  I just think we know that insulin resistance likely starts at the muscle and our muscles are a bank basically for glucose. Really, the only big thing I've changed in the past year is probably doing. I've been doing so much Emsculpt, which is muscle stimulation that literally builds muscle. I think I've built a lot of muscle; I'm just looking at my levels. My peaks are much lower than they were before and this is eating massive amounts of carbs, and then during the day just the average is probably like five or six or seven points lower. So, yeah, it could be other things as well, but it's cool to see. It's motivating. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I think it's also important just to, from the perspective of checking in with yourself to see how you're doing. I'll give you an example, so last night we had dinner at a neighbor's house. They know that I don't drink alcohol, so they came up with a mocktail. I literally when she started telling me what was in the mocktail, I was like, "Oh, Lord, I can't like politely not."

Melanie Avalon:  It was like all sugar? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes, it was pineapple juice. She was like, "Agave syrup." I literally like my husband, like kicked me under the table. So I just had to sip it and the whole time I was like, "Lord," I'm just going to have to make sure that I go to the gym tomorrow and lift heavy things. But, yeah, it was humorous to just imagine in my mind understanding like I'm just going to just eat protein tonight. I'm going to politely sip this drink. I'm going to dump it when no one's looking. But it was so thoughtful, I want to be very clear, but I don't normally consume sugary drinks ever. That's just not really my thing, but in terms of insulin sensitivity, it's one of those things. In my head, I was like, "Okay, what could I do after we leave here?" I'm like, "Okay, I can walk the dogs like." We would do that anyway, all the things. "Okay, tomorrow, I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to fast a little longer, I'm going to lift heavy things." Like in my mind, I was already knowing the things I needed to do to help dispose of the said sugary beverage that I consumed. 

Melanie Avalon: That's so funny. Yeah, so out of curiosity, when you're in situations like that, at dinners where somebody has made something for you, what are your lines or rules? How often do you have the sip, or versus just saying, "No, thank you." 

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, I felt obligated to consume some of this because she specifically made sure to have a mocktail. So, I had actually brought a bottle of low sugar kombucha with me and I was like, "I'll just have this over ice, this will be fine." I would say that, something like that, knowing that I'm very physically active, very insulin sensitive, and like one half cup serving of that is not going to derail all the good things that I do. But it definitely makes me very cognizant of just how-- I don't want to use any negative work note or terminology, just how happy I am with my current lifestyle and how I eat food and consume beverages and I just don't realize how unusual sometimes my habits may be to other people. They were incredibly accommodating. They know I'm gluten free and I'm dairy free and so they had this lovely charcuterie platter that was out that I was trying to eat as much meat as I could, while I was sipping on said very sugary beverage, but I would say that there are some deal breakers like for me, I just don't do well with dairy. 

So, if I went to someone's house, and they had a very dairy heavy dessert, or were trying to incur, I would politely say, "I actually just don't do well with dairy." I think most people don't have a problem with that. I do find that the most triggering thing of all is when you just explain either, "No, I'm not drinking," or, "I don't drink alcohol." Then people don't know what to do with, and I was like, "I'm totally fine with that. You do what you need to do, and I'd be happy with a glass of water." I genuinely do pretty well with what works best for my body. 

The interesting thing was the guys were having some type of local pubs beer brew, and the mom was saying, "Oh, I don't normally have mocktails. But I didn't want you to feel left out." I was like, "No, no, I'm really good. I'm not triggered by what if everyone else is drinking, that's not a problem for me, but I think it comes down to--" first of all I have to genuinely be hungry to eat. I don't ever eat at someone's house just out of a sense of obligation, but I also am very grateful and try to be very appreciative. I don't want anyone to feel like the efforts they've made are not appreciated and valued. To me seed oils are probably at the top of my list of things, I really try to avoid as much as possible. So, I'm the person that will sometimes come to someone's house and I'll make a wonderful salad dressing, because then I have some control over what's in it. But I would say the other thing is, if I'm at all concerned about something not meeting my needs, like desserts are easy to pass up, alcohol is easy to pass up, it's usually when you sit down, and I'm sure any listeners probably have experienced this, you go to someone's house, and they have a bunch of salad dressings out and most conventional salad dressings are not going to meet my needs, so sometimes I'll just ask for olive oil, and vinegar, and people generally don't have an issue with that either. 

I don't want to sound like I'm one of those unappreciative guests. I'm generally very easy, but I think all of us have to figure out, how to navigate those social situations and not feel like you're a weirdo. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I think it's such an important topic, because I just think it's something so many people struggle with. Honestly, I think it can be one of the hardest things about any dietary change or protocol that you're adhering to. And I hadn't really thought about it before, but the similarity between not drinking is really similar to like, if a person is fasting, not eating, I get so many DMs about this, whenever I post pictures of me at events or parties, where there's obviously food, I just normally don't eat anything. This is for the fasting, not for the alcohol related thing, unless it's like a dinner I'm going to where I can like order specifically what I want to order. But it took me a long time to get to the place where I am now. I don't know if I'm still like a little bit insecure about it, but I mostly just don't care. I feel pretty comfortable in just saying like, "No, I'm not eating right now."

Cynthia Thurlow: I think that's important, irrespective of where we are, who we are, what we're doing, just feeling comfortable with your decisions and not feeling a sense of obligation. One of the things I've really been working on the last few years is, I grew up in a family with a lot of trauma. So, the way that I that I mentally work through all that in my childhood and young adulthood was to be the people pleaser, and to always be the good kid and the kid that never got into trouble and got good grades. So, my people pleasing tendencies I've been actively really working on the last several years. Sometimes I'm just okay saying, "No, I appreciate that. But I'm not interested in having that." And feeling very comfortable and not feeling like I have to explain myself and I think that's a beautiful thing to get to that point. So, I love that you stand your ground and advocate for what you and your lifestyle need.

Melanie Avalon: I'm glad you said that, because that's what I have found to be the most minimal drama response because I think I used to feel the need to explain. It's funny, I'm just thinking about now how you've helped me with other things in life where you're like, "You don't have to explain, you can just say no," but I think I did used to feel the need to explain and now I normally say, "Thank you. I'm good." Normally that just does it. Sometimes there'll be follow up questions, "Oh, are you not hungry?" or "Are you not eating," or, "Why?" And then you have-- 

Cynthia Thurlow: I think it's a sense of you just want to make people feel inclusive. I know if I had someone at my house and they were abstaining from eating-- I just want to make sure like, do you have options and you feel good about the options that are available and as long as they're good, I'm like, "Okay, we're all adults." We're all adulting we have to figure out what works for us. 

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. So, I will give a link for listeners if they would like to get a CGM, though. Oh, which by the way, CGM, if you were that to a party, you will get a lot of questions.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes, you will. 

Melanie Avalon: Our link for it, you can get $30 off. Just go to nutrisense.io/ifpodcast, and that is good for any of the subscription programs that they have. The subscription programs are more cost effective, so we definitely recommend going that route especially, you'll probably find it's hard to do it just once because it lasts for two weeks. So, you can do it just once, but a lot of people want to keep it on for a little bit.

Cynthia Thurlow: Very insightful. 

Melanie Avalon:  Hi friends. I'm about to tell you how to get 15% off my favorite blue light blocking glasses ever. I am often asked what are my favorite “biohacking products,” and something I truly honestly cannot imagine my life without are blue light blocking glasses. In today's modern environment, we are massively overexposed to blue light. It's a stimulating type of light, which can lead to stress, anxiety, headaches, and in particular sleep issues. Blue light actually stops our bodies from producing melatonin, which is our sleep hormone. Our exposure to blue light can completely disrupt our circadian rhythm, make it hard to fall asleep, make it hard to stay asleep and so much more. Friends, I identify as an insomniac. I would not be able to sleep without my blue light blocking glasses. I also stay up late working and wearing blue light blocking glasses at night has made it so I can do that and still fall asleep. 

My absolute favorite blue light blocking glasses on the market are BON CHARGE formerly known as BLUblox. BON CHARGE makes an array of blue light blocking glasses in all different designs, so you can truly find something that fits your style and reap all of the benefits of blue light blocking. They have their clear computer glasses; you can wear those during the day. Especially if you're looking at screens all day to help with anxiety, headaches, and stress. They have their light sensitivity glasses. Those are tinged with a special yellow color scientifically proven to boost mood, and they block even more blue light, those are great for the day or evening. Then they have their blue light blocking glasses for sleep. Those are the ones that I put on at night while working before bed. Oh, my goodness, friends, it's something you truly have to experience, you put on these glasses and it's like you just tell your brain, "Okay, it's time to go to sleep soon." They also have amazing blackout sleep masks. Those block 100% of light with zero eye pressure. I wear this every single night and I don't know how I would sleep without it. And you can get 15% off sitewide. Just go to boncharge.com and use the coupon code IFPODCAST to save 15%, that's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E dotcom with the coupon code IFPODCAST to save 15%. All right, now back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Okie-dokie. Shall we jump into questions for today? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon: To start things off, we have a question from Bo. The subject is, "Adrenal Fatigue and IF." Bo says, "Hello, first off, thank you both for guiding me through my first few months of IF. I started in September 19th of 2018. I don't think I could have gotten through my first couple of months without binge listening to your podcast, joining both of your groups on Facebook and listening to both of your books as well." By the way, this question was written when Gin was still hosting the podcast." She says, "Thank you for all the resources, also giving up stevia in September was probably one of the best things I've done. Thank you, Gin, I will most likely never ingest stevia again. I would choose honey or maple any day. I have been paleo-ish, mainly gluten free, dairy free, wholefoods approach for several years now, and even with my clean diet a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed and treating hypothyroidism. More recently after starting IF, I was diagnosed with the dreaded adrenal fatigue.

Even though I am treating both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism and doing IF 19:5 to 17:7, I'm still not losing weight. I originally lost five pounds the first couple of weeks and since then nothing. I'm about 15 to 20 pounds away from my ideal weight and feeling my best body. Since starting my IF lifestyle, I've gone down the rabbit hole of health-related podcasts, all the usual suspects in the keto/paleo sphere. I've heard them mention not to do IF with adrenal fatigue, what are your thoughts? My doctor, who is treating my adrenal fatigue says to listen to my body and see how I feel with IF and my energy levels. My energy levels are always pretty wonky, sometimes stable, other days awful, but never that amazing energy and mental clarity that you both talk about all the time. 

I'm wondering if I should focus on healing my adrenals, then come back to IF when they heal in a few months. Do you know if IF is too stressful for adrenal fatigue? Maybe this is why I'm not losing weight. Thank you for your help. Big hugs, Bo." 

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, Bo, I think you've answered your question here. First and foremost, for listeners, when we hear the term adrenal fatigue, it's really not adrenal fatigue. It's Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Dysregulation, which is a big fancy way of saying, your brain which oversees communication with glands and different organs in the body. As we are transitioning, I don't know Bo's age, so Bo might be in perimenopause, might be in menopause, we don't know but that's when women tend to be much more susceptible to this dysregulation. What drives a lot of HPA dysregulation is stress and inflammation and insulin resistance. There's many, many factors that play into this. I find that our modern-day lifestyles are a huge contributing issue, so I'm grateful that you're working with a knowledgeable physician, number one. 

Number two, even in my book, I talk a lot about adrenal and thyroid health and how important it is? I would be the first person to say that you really have to view intermittent fasting as a form of hormesis, so that's a beneficial stress in the right amount at this right time and based on what you have shared here, and again, I'm not giving medical advice, I would defer to your primary care provider internist functional medicine person that you're that you're seeing, but I would not be adding in more stress when your body is already overstressed. Whether it's an underactive thyroid, you have insulin resistance, you just went through a divorce, a hospitalization, you had a big move. Goodness, the pandemic hasn't helped anybody, any of these things can really overtax the body. And from my perspective, depending on what life stage you're in whether or not you're still menstruating, I really think you need to focus in on healing your body before you start adding in additional stressors. Another good resource for you, I interviewed Dr. Doni Wilson earlier this year, she has a great book called Master Your Stress, that you can find on Amazon and we'll put a link to that. 

I did a great podcast that we'll link in the show notes as well. She talks a lot about, you know, she has a very specific methodology on how she supports her patients when they are going through this specific type of stressors, how to manage it. She's not a fan of utilizing intermittent fasting when people are still healing. I would probably say that I would be in 100% alignment on that. That's not to suggest that doing 12 hours of digestive rest is a bad thing, but when you think about intermittent fasting as a form of beneficial stress, when your body's already too stressed, it's probably the time to give it a rest and then later reintroduced when you're feeling consistent energy, sleeping well, just the fact that your weight loss resistant tells me that your body has some degree of inflammation and figuring out why your body is so inflamed is going to be an important piece of that puzzle. I hope that helps. 

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Yes, I'll just add to that. I was curious how you're going to start off or how are you going to approach the adrenal fatigue concept because it's interesting how debated it is, even in our world, just as far as does it exist? Does it not exist? Is it a real thing? I recently interviewed Ari Whitten. He's kind of known for his book on red light therapy, but his newest book is called Eat for Energy. He actually opens the book by talking about his experience with being diagnosed with adrenal fatigue, and then researching it and realizing that in the actual scientific studies and literature, it's hard to find support that it's an actual thing. That your adrenals are actually fatigued, or that's actually a concept of what's going on. 

I was just looking at a quote, he says in his book, "The vast majority of studies that tested adrenal function and cortisol levels and those with chronic fatigue conditions versus normal healthy people found no differences whatsoever in adrenal function or cortisol levels." But the larger picture that it goes to from that is that people get into the states of fatigue and over stress, and he breaks it down to basically the mitochondria, not being able to adequately deal with all the stressors that were exposed to. Cynthia was saying, intermittent fasting is a hormetic stress, but of course, based on your entire stress bucket, it may or may not be too much for you. I think it's interesting, we talked about this recently, when we were talking about some of Dr. Sarah Ballantyne's work, we can put a link in the show notes to that episode. But we were looking at some studies on intermittent fasting and how it affected stress biomarkers.

And in those studies, they actually found that it was contrary to what they thought they were going to find, but they actually found that intermittent fasting, at least in the setup of those studies, it overall encouraged parasympathetic tone, which is actually the opposite of the overly stress state. All of that to say is, I think I've said a lot of stuff, I think is very individual. So basically, for some people, and how you're doing intermittent fasting, it may be too stressful with your life situations and your "adrenal fatigue," depending on what that actually is or for some people it may be that it fits in well with their life, and it actually alleviates some of their stress and helps their "adrenal fatigue." I think it's just really, really individual so I think you have to do a more comprehensive picture of how you are reacting to it, which is what her doctor told her exactly.

Cynthia Thurlow: Bio-individuality rules, as it always goes.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I was thinking about this actually, yesterday. Why was I thinking about this? Oh, I'm prepping to interview Dr. Nayan Patel, he wrote a book about called, The Glutathione Revolution, all about glutathione. I was reading my notes on antioxidants and oxidative stress. He has a chapter about, what type of stress does glutathione help? I was just contemplating, does mental stress create free radicals? I'm on a tangent right now, but does it create free radicals and physical things like that, or is it that it's a taxing stressful situation that leads to the same stressed-out end angle, that physical stress leads to.

Cynthia Thurlow: It's a good question. I think it could be either. The other thing that I would just tack in there before I forget. I, at one point trained with one of the big functional medicine doc's Andrew Hyman, and he was talking to me about adrenal fatigue. In the context of people are really getting this wrong, it's really related to the hippocampus, which is this part of the brain and how sometimes the hippocampus doesn't heal from the insult or the stress that people are experiencing, which can leave them in this kind of downward spiral. This is, I promise, relevant to what you're saying about Ari's book. But you start thinking about if most people over the age of 40 have got mitochondrial dysfunction, is it any surprise that I see prolific amounts of women, north of 35, north of 40, that are just so exhausted. 

I think it's a combination in modern day lifestyles and depletion of role of antioxidants, depletion of glutathione. I literally was looking at a research article this weekend, talking about how the past two years, like our longevity here in the United States is actually getting worse and not better, but that probably isn't a surprise. But they were looking at all these like retrospectives, like what's the longevity of someone in Japan or in Korea versus the United States, it's quite significant. I start thinking about these kinds of chronic insults, it's like a bucket, the bucket continues to fill year after year. And then we just get to a point where our bodies are not as stress resilient. 

We talk about adrenal fatigue, but really, we're talking about the accumulation of many, many years of insults to the body, whether we're cognizant of it or not, and the resultant fatigue that comes out of that. And for many people, they don't get the answers they want or deserve to get, and so I love that you're introducing so many of the listeners to different perspectives on how people navigate these changes. I will have Ari on, but not until I'm going to say February, because we had to reschedule because he got scheduled on my birthday, which is a whole separate tangential conversation. I don't work on my birthday. That's a standing rule. 

Melanie Avalon: Neither. I'm so glad you elaborated on that, because I should probably share his central thesis, which is that the mitochondria basically have two roles. They have a dual role. They have the energy production role, and then they have a defensive stress sensing role. They can't really do both at the same time. So, if they're in the stress mode, the stress mode reacting to threats, it shuts down energy production. So, yeah, I'm excited for you too, to interview him. It's a really good book. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I mean it's definitely I feel very grateful, as I know you do that. We get opportunities sometimes to read people's books before they are ever officially published. As I'm looking at the voluminous amount of books, I have in my study I feel very grateful, because there's always opportunities to learn something that not only can you share with listeners, but you can take a bit of that and apply it to your own lifestyle. I'm looking at James Nestor book Breath, because it's such a bright cover, it stands out amongst all these other muted books. Makes you realize, every book I read, I try to take something away to be able to share with listeners, share with my community, improve my quality of life, improve someone else's quality life and that's really what it's all about. 

Melanie Avalon: I cannot agree more. That example of that cortisol sentence from Ari's book was something that really, really stuck with me, because I had never read that. That he had reviewed the literature and that the majority of it didn't find substantial differences in cortisol levels, which I actually find that really-- I think it's very reassuring, because I think a lot of people get a little bit stressed about being stressed. I do think cortisol levels can be an issue, like you were talking about how they are an issue for people, but I think it's nice to know that maybe it's not quite as intense as we think it might be, because I think it can be very easy to get into a just like an overwhelmed, stressed state about our state of stress and like worried that our cortisol levels are super high, and we should address it, but we can do that without fear. I think just hearing that one sentence, I mean, it made me feel a lot better. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely.

Melanie Avalon: Random thing about James. I didn't realize he wrote a book that I had years ago and now I want to-- I don't know if I actually read it though if I just bought it. But now I want to see if he wants to come on to talk about this book, even though it's like one of his really old works. He wrote a book called Get High Now (without drugs). Have you heard of this book? 

Cynthia Thurlow: I have not.

Melanie Avalon: It's like all of the different non drug related things that create a different state of consciousness. From the description, he says, "Lucid dreaming, optical and auditory illusions, controlled breathing, meditation, time compression, physical and mental exercises." I want to invite him on for this. I wonder how often authors get invited to do an interview on one of their old-- this is a 2009 book.

Cynthia Thurlow: I bet you, he'd be very flattered. I found him to be delightfully down to earth. Given his-- would I perceive to be definitely one of the more well-respected science writers that’s out there.

Melanie Avalon: I'm going to reach out. So okie-dokie. Shall we go on to our next question? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. This is from Gretchen, and the subject is "Smells." "Thank you so much for your podcast. I've been listening to it nonstop and started my IF journey on mundane. My question about smells. We're spending most of our time at home nowadays. And my husband loves to cook big breakfast and lunches. He's downstairs making something delicious for lunch, and my mouth is watering from the glorious aromas. Can this cause insulin levels to spike just as artificially sweetened beverages can? I've been able to breezed the days without hunger unless he is cooking. "

Melanie Avalon: All right, Gretchen, thank you so much for your question. I believe my thoughts on this answer are, yes. We've talked about this before on the show but it's to the same extent as the artificial sweeteners. What I think is important to understand is, I think people think with insulin release, that it's just one process so it's released or it's not released. And once it's released, it's releasing. But there's actually two phases to insulin release. There's the cephalic phase insulin response, which basically your pancreas always has a little bit of insulin ready and waiting and it taps out. There's only so much there and that's for when you smell something or when you're anticipating about to eat, so it releases a little bit of insulin, but then for the actual, like insulin bolus that keeps going in a sustained, that's created then in the pancreas, and that's more when you're actually eating. I've looked at a study before and I think we've talked about on a prior show. 

Basically, yes, the smells can likely release some insulin, but it's probably not going to start that second train of insulin production. Meaning, you can basically wait it out, if that makes sense. Do you have thoughts, Cynthia?

Cynthia Thurlow: I would agree with you too. I think that we don't want to navigate our lives feeling fearful that if we smell something delicious, that somehow we've broken our fast or derailed our fast. We have to think big context, like when we're talking about breaking your fast, I really think it needs to come down to ingesting something as opposed to smelling something. I think we would otherwise go through our lives, not just enjoying, being present, being around family, being around friends, being in a work environment, and being fearful, we're going to smell something delicious. I think we have to think about the big picture. Generally, I look at it, have you ingested the food? That is more important to me than if you just smelled the food because the cephalic phase insulin response, yes, that's there. But I have to believe that our bodies, it's more sophisticated than that. I mean, you will get this small release in response to smelling something delicious but that's really irrelevant. It's more about what habits are going to break your fast and ingesting the food we'll do that.

Melanie Avalon:  Exactly. I'm trying to remember because there was definitely [sighs] there was a study I had read and it was about people smelling chocolate, or it was literally asking this exact question, and what were the effects? The answer was that, yes, it likely releases insulin, but it's just that small amount. And it's something that you weighed out, I'm really glad that you drew attention to the practicality of it all. If you couldn't smell things, that's no, not practical.

Cynthia Thurlow: It's interesting because there's-- and I don’t mean to speak over you. One of the most powerful connections to memories that we have, is there an olfactory system. If I smell carrots, I instantly and brought back to my grandparent's garden in Colorado. Our memories are so intertwined with smells, and our olfactory system, I think it's really important that we not try to diminish those experiences. I think that's just important to state that it's really tied in with memories. There are certain smells like wonderful, delicious smells related to food that bring me back to happy times in my childhood or young adult adulthood. And you don't want to diminish those. I think that's important. 

Melanie Avalon: I could not agree more. I'm trying to remember Mark Schatzker, who I keep talking about with The End of Craving and The Dorito Effect. I learned in that book that we have more DNA devoted to our nose and the mouth than any other part of the human body which is fascinating. It's definitely something that we should be engaging in. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. Exactly. It's the same thing and I'm sure you get these questions, where people are paranoid to brush their teeth or they're paranoid to take a medication that's prescribed with for fear that it's breaking a fast. And I always say let's think big picture. Like not brushing your teeth, the ramifications of that are greater than brushing your teeth, provided you're not swallowing your toothpaste, which I don't think anyone--that's an adult does that. I know toddlers are notorious for that. I just think we always have to be focused on the big picture. I think that's what's most important.

Melanie Avalon: I cannot agree more. All right, so we can go on to our next question. I don't know how to say her name, It's U-T-E, Ute maybe.

Cynthia Thurlow: Ute, that sounds good. 

Melanie Avalon: She's from Germany. The subject is "Menopause." Ute says, "Hello, ladies. I discovered your podcast last weekend while researching a healthy lifestyle that I can maintain effortlessly. Calorie counting is so depressing and it drives me bonkers. Thank you for all the great information and tips. Since I'm going through menopause, fun times, I wonder if there is some advice you can give." That's a very wide-open question. This is a Cynthia question.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. Truly. Well, I think it's always the reframe. We shouldn't perceive that menopause or perimenopause is a negative thing. I mean, you're going through reverse puberty, but there's so many benefits to not having to worry about getting pregnant anymore, you're not having a cycle every month, your fertility is waxing and waning, and then it's gone. But to me, being at a different stage in my life, I think it's really empowering. I have the bandwidth to do things I wasn't capable of doing 15 or 20 years ago. So, in terms of resources, I would say I've done a lot of podcast around perimenopause and menopause, most recently with Dr. Louann Brizendine, who is a neuropsychiatrist, trained at Harvard. I mean, she's absolutely brilliant. She wrote a book called The Upgrade. The upgrade is menopause, but she said, if we really reflect on the fact that a lot of the terminology around women and aging was created by men, generally, male physicians and the pharmaceutical industry.

She does a really beautiful job of helping us reframe what's happening in our bodies, so we are no longer menstruating or we're getting close to no longer menstruating. We're not in a position where we can become pregnant without technology, that there are changes to our brain, there's changes to the way we perceive the world. There's changes to the way our body responds to certain macronutrients and exercise and sleep. There's lots of really wonderful books. I would say, The Upgrade is definitely a favorite. 

I would say Dr. Lara Briden, has a really excellent book called Hormone Repair Manual. That's Dr. Lara Briden, and I've had her on the podcast. Dr. Sara Gottfried has some fantastic resources, probably my favorite book of hers is The Hormone Cure. Then I think about researchers like Dr. Lisa Mosconi, who is an Alzheimer's brain health researcher at Cornell, she wrote a book called, The XX Brain that I recommend almost daily. I would say those are really great resources and I've done podcasts with each one of them except Dr. Mosconi because she's doing so much research, I literally harass her publicist, probably once a month. I'm going to eventually get her on the podcast. I think a lot of menopause is reframing things. Hot flashes, weight, gain, inflammation, etc., are largely a byproduct of how well we take care of ourselves. So, there's always room for improvement and I find most women, usually within a year or two going through menopause, their symptoms will settle down. 

It's important to understand the things we need to prioritize in this time in our life. I think about sleep quality, stress management, anti-inflammatory nutrition, that could look different for most everyone. But I find the most inflammatory foods for most women are dairy and gluten and alcohol and sugar. Let me put an apostrophe time seven next to sugar. And understanding that your relationship with certain types of foods are going to shift really focusing on, they call it neat, but the exercise we do outside of formal exercise is important. Walking, just being active, not sitting on your rear end all day long and then lifting weights. 

I see so many women that I'm inspired by on social media, there's the good and the bad with social media, but there are definitely average everyday women that I see on social media that are just killing it in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and beyond, like doing amazing things. It's a time of tremendous creativity, it's a time to really reflect on your life and your contributions. And so I would say, I hope that those resources are helpful, we'll make sure that we link those podcasts, and those books in the show notes, so that will be available to you as well. 

Melanie, is there anything that you'd like to add? I know that you're not in this stage of life, but I'm sure you probably interviewing so many people, you probably have some suggestions as well.

Melanie Avalon: Resources wise, that was very comprehensive and amazing. I'm actually just personally, I'm very curious what my experience will be when I go through menopause because I feel like when I had my period of heavy metal toxicity, like to the extreme mercury toxicity that I exhibited, it was like all the symptoms that I see listed as menopausal symptoms. Just because of the, I guess, the hormonal dysregulation from that. I've been very curious when I go through menopause, if it will be. I remember when I was in that I was like, "When I go through menopause, it's going to be a breeze once--" I guess if I can get through this. But I would get all of that like hot flashes and fluctuations and insomnia, and create, like just so many, all of the things. So, that's not very helpful. It's just my experience.

Cynthia Thurlow: I think the better you take care of yourself in perimenopause. From 35 up, the better you take care of your nutrition and your sleep and your stress management and doing the right kinds of exercise, the easier that transition will be. I would say for most people, it's bumpy, because they still want to act and behave like they did at 20 and you can't. And that's not a bad thing. I don't want to eat the way I did when I was 20, I don't want to live the way I did when I was 20, and so once I kind of understood, I had to eliminate some foods, focus on other areas really prioritize sleep, which I affectionately call an art form, because truly it is. Melanie, at some point, I'll have to tell you about my new sleep device that I'm using that you'll probably laugh about. But we'll talk more about it. 

Melanie Avalon: Do I know what it is? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Probably not, because I haven't talked a lot about it on social media. But I have something called Somnox, S-O-M-N-O-X. It looks like a stuffed bean. Like it's the shape of a bean or like a mitochondria. That's probably a better more apt description. You hug it while you're starting to fall asleep, and so I set mine for 30 minutes, and it actually will adjust to your breathing pattern. And what it's doing is stimulating the autonomic nervous system parasympathetic. I've doubled my deep sleep. 

Melanie Avalon: Is it a similar concept to the Apollo Neuro where it's using the vibrations? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. It's different. It's different than the Apollo Neuro which obviously I love, and love, love, love that. That's certainly very helpful for stress reduction. But for me, I've just been using it before I go to sleep. And my husband is like, "Oh, my God, what's next for you? You sleep with the sleep mask, you've got your blue blockers--[laughs] You've got all these things that you do and you sleep with your Oura ring." But it's honest to goodness, it's doubled my sleep. Let me be clear, they gifted this to me, I was not even aware of it. They gifted to me, and this is my objective opinion. I don't have an affiliate account with them. I mean, I don't get anything for talking about it. Just really have been impressed with the technology and then it turns off. It's not exposing me to anything that's negative. But, yeah, I now sleep with what looks like a little mitochondria tucked up against my chest. 

Melanie Avalon: Can you connect me to them? I want to try this. I'm surprised they haven't reached out to me. That's right up my alley. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I know. It's completely random that they reached out because sometimes I'm sure this happens to you too. People reach out to you randomly and sometimes I'm just very polite and say, "I don't really think I would use that. I don't want to waste your time or your resources sending me something that I don't think I would use or support." I looked at and I was like, "Oh, it can't hurt." My husband was like, "What next?" I was like, "I don't know." I just know that’s helping my deep sleep and that for me as a middle-aged woman is pretty incredible. 

Melanie Avalon: What was it called again? Somnox.

Cynthia Thurlow: It's Somnox, S-O-M-N-O-X. I think it's a German based company. 

Melanie Avalon:  That is so cool.

Cynthia Thurlow: That's very cool. Except my husband is now embarrassed. He's like, "What is that thing?" I'm like, "It's my little Somnox."

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. What color is it? 

Cynthia Thurlow: It's blue. It's a delightful pleasing blue. It's blue like dark blue and light blue. 

Melanie Avalon:  You hug it, basically. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. It's curved, so it's designed to just fit in to your chest as you sleep, so I turn on my side. I do like 30 minutes and it acclimates to my breathing and I just fall blissfully asleep. It's amazing. There's no nothing else that's changed. 

Melanie Avalon: I need this. Okay, this is great. Wow. To-do list. One other question, I don't even know if I should ask it because it's a big question but with the menopause stuff, do you find people benefit from HRT? 

Cynthia Thurlow: I do. I think the Women's Health Initiative came out in 2002. So right as I was finishing up my NP program, and the research that was done, and the points that were drawn from the research, there's a lot to unpack here. I did a great podcast with Dr. Avrum Bluming and Carol Tavris, talking about why estrogen matters. That's their book, but it basically explains what was flawed about this study. And it's really important that I just state an entire generation of clinicians, and an entire generation of women have been harmed by the way that this research was shared. We're just now getting to a point where I think most, if not all, clinicians are talking openly about the fact that there is benefit from replacing hormones that our bodies have naturally stopped producing. 

As an overall, like general statement, I do think women benefit from Bioidentical Hormone Replacement. I do. I myself take compounded, good Lord, compounded progesterone and compounded T4/T3. I have testosterone, I also have estrogen, I've got it all. I really do think for me personally that they help asleep, they help with inter kind of synergistically, each one of them is helping me with different aspects of navigating these years. But the thing that I get most concerned about, and anyone that's listening, that's 35 and up, I worry the most about cognitive function because Alzheimer's and dementia, they don't start in your 70s or 60s, the groundwork is laid many years before. This is important 30s, 40s, 50s, how well we take care of ourselves sets us up for developing disorders of cognition. 

For me, I'm most concerned about brain health, and then secondarily to that bone and heart health, of course. Then beyond that, just wanting to be able to navigate every stage of life that I'm in, I want to be able to enjoy my life and not feel like I can't be 100%. So, getting back to your original question, I do. I think it's all about finding practitioners that are not only capable, but current and openminded to help you find the combination of medications that are best for you. Like I've now gotten to a point that anything that's made conventionally just has not worked well for me. Now we just finally stopped Synthroid and Cytomel, now I'm on compounded T4 and T3 and my functional medicine doc told me I have the most "curious thyroid panel" he's ever seen. With that being said, everyone that's listening, I have women who are petrified of hormones, I have women who are openminded to hormones. I think it's just important to have those conversations, like whether it's with your GYN or your internist or your girlfriend, just understand there are options, you don't have to suffer. 

Melanie Avalon:  I'm really, really happy to hear you say that. That was my understanding of that, of the Women's Health Initiative because basically, the takeaway was they said it encouraged, was it breast cancer? It was not done correctly and interpreted correctly and created a potentially-- Yeah, well, everything that you said, misled.

Cynthia Thurlow: It's unfortunate because the samples, the study participants were older, they weren't 49, 50, 52, they were in their 60s. Many of them had been smokers, they had high blood pressure, they were diabetic, they were obese. They weren't a healthy population to start with and they used Premarin and they use Progestin, which is synthetic form of progesterone. It's interesting, everyone knows that you and I both love Huberman and Dr. Peter Attia, they had a really interesting discussion. Peter Attia was a guest on Huberman lab. Fairly recently, in about an hour in to the podcast interview, Peter Attia effectively stated that this was one of the greatest disasters he's ever witnessed as a clinician, that it has such profound implication and impact. 

I look at my mother's generation, my mom is 76 and has terrible osteoporosis and we're starting to see some degree of cognitive changes. It's unfortunate, because she thought, "Oh, if I'm using vaginal estrogen that's going to protect me." And I said, "It doesn't protect your bones, maybe your vagina," which I mean, let's be honest, that's an important part of being a woman, but there was just not good information given to these women. They were not fully informed and so I think we just have a whole generation of women and clinicians that are fearful about prescribing hormones. I almost get a question about this every single day on social media, which tells me that we need to continue talking about it. It's important for people to know that working with a talented, competent clinician, if you're in a situation where you need hormonal therapies that there are people out there that can help you through that. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I'm just thinking, I don't know if I'll be able to articulate this, but it was an effect that was very pervasive because I feel like even me, even before I was super steeped in the health and wellness sphere, and even when I was younger when I wasn't even thinking about this type of stuff, there was a vibe surrounding HRT that it was, like not a good thing to do. I just think it really, really got into culture, which is kind of a shame that it went that way. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely, because we have a generation of women that are struggling. It's not like the conversation I had with Dr. Louann Brizendine, and she's based out of California. She's almost 70, she doesn't look at first of all, and she's like, "I have amazing bone strength." She's been on HRT for almost 20 years and she's a tiny petite person and she said, "I have amazing bone strength. I've got very healthy bone, but I credit that to HRT."

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All right. Shall we answer one more question? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. This is from Sybil Ann, subject is, "Need help from South Africa." "Hi, first of all, thanks so much for all the effort you put into the podcast. Love, love, love the podcast. I'm not sure how to 100% phrase my question, but what strategies do you or did you use to stick to the plan. I started out really strong. The first two weeks, I almost effortlessly fasted 18 to 20 hours daily and then all of a sudden it became difficult. It's like I have a mental block, I can't move past. Nothing significant has happened in my life, so it's not related to stress or anything. I follow all recommendations and fast, totally clean. Did this ever happen to you? You wake up one day and fasting seems hard. I don't understand how I could do so well and feel so good, and then a few weeks in, feel different. Did this ever happen to you? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for taking the time to read my question. Best regards, Sybil." 

Melanie Avalon:  All right, Sybil from South Africa. Thank you so much for the question. So, I do think this is a common thing that happens with people. It's not exactly the same thing but it's sort of how with even calorie restriction or normal diets or crash diets, people can sometimes do it really well in the beginning and then it becomes really, really hard. The reason that happens is because it's not sustainable, whatever dietary restriction that the person is doing. I think with fasting a lot that this can also happen where somebody starts intermittent fasting. In the beginning, it's great, they're losing weight, their adrenaline's probably up, they have energy. But then if the actual eating window is not a sustainable amount, then you're going to reach a point where your body's going to give signals to you that it's not a sustainable amount. 

This is the case I would really, like, where you just randomly one day it's hard, I believe it might be because you're actually not fueling adequately in your eating window. So, I would suggest one of two things, either having a longer eating window, so changing the fasting hours, or really addressing what you're eating in that eating window, making sure that you're getting adequate fuel, adequate protein, especially, depending on what macros you're doing. If you're doing a mixed diet, then this wouldn't really apply, but if you're doing a low carb diet, making sure you're getting ample fats to support your fast, if you're doing high carb, making sure you're getting enough calories in the form of the carbs. So yes, I think what happens, I've already said it, but it's people like going on adrenaline and doing well in the beginning, but their eating choices aren't actually sustainable. So that's what I would look at. Do you have thoughts? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. I mean, of course, I always come from the perspective, are you having a harder time with fasting depending on where you are in your menstrual cycle? Because it's much easier to do that when estrogen predominates in the follicular phase, which is in the beginning versus the week before your menstrual cycle. I do think when we are creating lifestyle change opportunities, we have to be really mindful of what is sustainable. Are you too restrictive? Are you not getting enough macros during your feeding window? Are you not sleeping well? Are you over exercising? Is there just too much stress going on in your personal life? I think sometimes we set really not necessarily unachievable, but not sustainable goals. And so I would really encourage you to think about what is something you can do for the rest of your life versus something for just a couple of weeks, because that's a really important distinction. 

For me, personally, if someone said to me I could never have dark chocolate for the rest of my life, that would not be sustainable, versus if I say to myself, I'm allowed to have a small piece of dark chocolate every other day, and I can sustain that, then that is a sustainable goal. I'm giving a terrible example. Dark chocolate is my one vice. If people don't know that already, that's like my one vice in life. It'd be very hard to give that up. So, I think when you're looking at a plan and you're creating changes, sometimes I see people doing too many things all at once. Meaning, they're trying to improve their sleep, they're trying to exercise or trying to fast, they're trying to do all the things all at once. What they really need to do is pick one thing at a time, master that and then add more things and that is much more achievable and sustainable. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. I cannot agree more. So hopefully that's helpful. All right. One more question we can sneak in. This comes from Cheyenne, and the subject is "Easing into a fast." Cheyenne says, "Hello, I've been listening to your podcast for just a few days and love it. I've been practicing IF for about 9-years. For most of those years, I had great success and practicing a 16:8 fast and have been able to maintain a healthy weight. That said, I've been slowly putting on weight for the last year or so, I'm starting to think it has to do with my age. I'm currently 41. After listening to your podcast, I thought I might try to increase my fasting to a 24 or one meal a day. It was tough. About two hours before I was to break my fast, I got really cold in my extremities and became pretty weak. When I finally broke my fast, I didn't binge but I was extremely tired and had to go to sleep. My question is how do I ease into a longer fast comfortably? P.S. I did have my thyroid checked, and though it's on the low side, it's still a normal range and my doctor is a big proponent of IF. Thanks so much. 

Cynthia Thurlow: This is a great question. This goes back to something a theme that I am starting to talk about more openly on social media. The presumption that what you have to do is fast longer and restrict more and what it may mean because you're in that perimenopausal age range, it can be a lot of factors, that could be why you're becoming weight loss resistant. Have you lost muscle mass. Melanie and I were talking earlier about the loss of insulin sensitivity with less muscle that we have and we start to lose muscle after the age of 40. And depending on who you're talking to, it could be 3%. It's pretty significant and it starts to just accelerate like a freight train. What's your stress management like? What's your sleep quality like? Are you exercising? Are you lifting weights? Are you having an anti-inflammatory diet? I don't like short feeding windows, because you're never going to be able to hit your protein macros. I would encourage you to explore those other lifestyle pieces first. If you decide for yourself that you got all those things ratcheted in, I would not be doing a short OMAD type eating methodology. I would not be doing that every day. It's going to be very hard to hit your protein macros, and you don't want to be losing insulin sensitivity and muscle mass, especially as you're heading into perimenopause and menopause. Melanie, what are your thoughts? 

Melanie Avalon: I think it's interesting, because people, like you basically just said this, but people when they have an issue with not losing weight, or not feeling like their diet is working, they think the answer is automatically fast more, like that's the answer. I personally think there's so much benefit that can go into looking at the food choices specifically. Especially, when people writing questions, I don't think she mentions at all what she's eating. When people don't mention actually what they're eating, then I feel there's possibly the potential for a lot of the benefits that you want to experience by addressing what you're eating rather than fasting more. If you're not eating a whole foods based diet, moving to a whole foods based diet. Like Cynthia said, really focusing on the protein, things like that can be huge. But then if you do want to fast for no reason-- so basically, she went from going nine years 16:8, jumping into a short eating window. I would suggest just slowly tightening it up and slowly approaching if you want to make a shorter eating window, so doing a 17:7, and then 18:6 and seeing how you feel going a little bit longer. 

There's nothing wrong with just fasting a little bit longer, you don't have to jump into a short eating window you could just add an extra hour here or there. Also, little hacks that you could do maybe fasting just a little bit longer, like adding an extra hour and really putting in some physical activity near the end of that fast, that can have a really beneficial effect for people, both for fat burning, as well as setting you up for your eating window, insulin sensitivity and things like that. So, yes, I would just take a different approach than the jumping all in to the short eating window approach. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I agree. I think and I hope that we will continue kind of investigating this triad that I'm seeing in a lot of women where the presumption is more fasting, more exercise, more food restriction is going to allow them to lose the weight they're frustrated with.

Melanie Avalon: Exactly. Awesome. All right, so this has been absolutely wonderful. So, a few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can find the show notes, I feel like we talked about so much stuff in today's episode. I always feel bad for Brianna, our show notes creator, all the links we'll be sending her way to put into the show notes. They will be at ifpodcast.com/episode284. You can follow us on Instagram as well. That is @ifpodcast. I am @melanieavalon, Cynthia is @cynthia_thurlow_. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything from you, Cynthia, before we go.

Cynthia Thurlow: No, just we got through a lot of questions today. I think I always feel very productive when we can make that happen. 

Melanie Avalon: Same thing. All right. Well, I will talk to you next week. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Sounds good. 

Melanie Avalon: Bye. 

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription] 

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

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Jul 17

Episode 274: Fasting On Vacation, Chocolate, Menopause, Ovulation, Hypothalamus, Nulliparous Women, Magnesium, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 274 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Cynthia Thurlow, author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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SHOW NOTES

LMNT: For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase! Learn All About Electrolytes In Episode 237 - Our Interview With Robb Wolf!

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Ep. 206 Pt 1: A Deep Dive into Perimenopause - Hormonal Imbalances and Birth Control with Dr. Tabatha Barber

Ep. 212 Pt. 2: A Deep Dive into Hormonal Imbalances and Menopause with Dr. Tabatha Barber

Menstrual cycle variability and the perimenopause

#76 Stuart Phillips, PhD, on Building Muscle with Resistance Exercise and Reassessing Protein Intake

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Listener Q&A: Monica - Magnesium Question

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Ep. 194 – The Toxic Truth About GMOs

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine, and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified health care provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 274 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Cynthia Thurlow, Nurse Practitioner and author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and cynthiathurlow.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

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And one more thing before we jump in, are you fasting clean inside and out? When it comes to weight loss, we focus a lot on what and when we eat. It makes sense because these foods affect our hormones and how our bodies store and burn fat. But do you know what is possibly one of the most influential factors in weight gain? It's not your food and it's not fasting, it's actually our skincare and makeup. As it turns out, Europe has banned over a thousand compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup in the US due to their toxicity. These include endocrine disrupters, which mess with your hormones, carcinogens linked to cancer, and obesogens, which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight. Basically, when we're using conventional skincare and makeup, we are giving these obesogenic compounds direct access to our bloodstream. And then in our bodies, studies have shown they do things like reduce our satiety hormones, increase our hunger hormones, make fat cells more likely to store fat, and more resistant to burning fat, and so much more. If you have stubborn fat, friends, your skincare and makeup maybe playing a role in that. Beyond weight gain and weight loss, these compounds have very detrimental effects on our health and they affect the health of our future generations. That's because ladies, when we have babies, a huge percent of those toxic compounds go through the placenta into the newborn. It is so, so shocking and the effects last for years. 

Conventional lipstick, for example, often tests high in lead and the half-life of lead is up to 30 years. That means, when you put on some conventional lipstick, 30 years later, maybe half of that lead has left your bones. On top of that, there is essentially no regulation of these products on the shelves. That's why it's up to us to choose brands that are changing this. The brand that is working the hardest to do this is Beautycounter. They were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, so you can truly feel good about what you put on. And friends, these products really, really work. They are incredible. They have counter time for anti-aging, counter match for normal skin, counter control for acne and oily prone, and counter start for sensitive. I use their Overnight Resurfacing Peel and vitamin C serum every single night of my life and their makeup is amazing. Check on my Instagram to see what it looks like. Tina Fey, even wore all Beautycounter makeup when she hosted The Golden Globes. So, yes, it is high-definition camera ready. They have so many other products, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, products for babies, and so much more. You can shop with us at beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code, CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. Also, make sure to get on my clean beauty email list. That's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list. So, definitely check it out. You can join me in my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share their experiences, ask questions, give product reviews, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well. 

And lastly, if you're thinking of making Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare, a part of your future like we have, we definitely recommend becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. It is totally, completely worth it. So, again, to shop with us, go to beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code, CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now, back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 274 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with, Cynthia Thurlow.

Cynthia Thurlow: Hey, there.

Melanie Avalon: How was your trip?

Cynthia Thurlow: Amazing. I think that's the best, the best way I can describe it. I think on a lot of levels that far too many of us don't take breaks from work. For me, I was really, the entire time during the book launch, I kept saying to myself, “If I can get till June 15th, if I can just get to June 15th, then as soon as I got on that plane, I was so ready to disconnect and spend time with my family” and it was absolutely perfect. We had great weather, we ate amazing food, we saw amazing things, we had a lot of togetherness. I'm sure the teenagers would say that they loved it, too, even though, there was a lot of togetherness and a lot of disconnection from their electronics because we didn't allow them to have an international plan on their phones, which I thought was the best decision ever.

Melanie Avalon: My family is actually in Europe right now and they did get a plan. It's so funny how things have changed because I remember when they would go to Europe years ago, now, it just feels the exact same as them being here in the US with the international plan.

Cynthia Thurlow: I didn't even have an international plan. That was my decision that I really did not want to be that accessible. My husband has an international plan. So, I kept saying, “You know what, anyone that was, the dog sitters, the house sitters, anyone that needed to reach us, they could reach my husband, but I only had Wi-Fi in my hotel.” And so, it was wonderful.

Melanie Avalon: That's so nice. What was the highlight of the touring and everything that you saw? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, I think Prague. We started our journey in the Czech Republic. We as a family have all said the same thing that Prague absolutely blew our minds like everything about it. The fact that we just really explored every square inch of the city, and we're able to do a laundry list of things, the kids had prioritized, and my youngest has been learning German, and so, he's been really interested in going to Eastern Europe, and he identified very specifically as is his personality. things he wanted to do, and so, we hit all the things that everyone wanted to do, and just really enjoyed the culture, and the people, and whether or not listeners know this about me or not. My first undergraduate degree was in international studies. I had a foreign affairs degree and I was all pre-law and undergrad, and gotten into law school and didn't go. But here's the big thing. I was in college when the Berlin Wall came down. I was in college when Eastern Bloc countries really started to dismantle. And to actually be there, and to be able to ask people what it was like to live under communist rule, and what it was like when the Soviets occupied a lot of these countries, for me being a gigantic international studies nerd, it just-- My kids were so embarrassed like, “Please don't tell another person that you were in college, when the Berlin Wall came down.” They were so embarrassed. But for me, I just savored every bit of it and love the people. 

When you think about just the influence on architecture and the hardships that people have really grown up with, I found everyone in Prague to just be so gracious, and humble, and interested. Another thing that really impressed me was the support for those in the Ukraine throughout Eastern Europe. Everyone was happy to take in the refugees and there were a lot of demonstrations, very peaceful ones. But for me, I would say probably, Prague. I was really surprised. It's a very, very special place for all of us and I think it's really cool that my kids got to see so much history during this trip, not just in the Czech Republic, but throughout Eastern Europe. 

Melanie Avalon: Here's a question for you related to the show, because Gin and I used to discuss this a lot. So, how do you change or how do you adapt to your fasting and eating windows when you travel?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, it's a question I got so often that I just didn't ask me anything on Instagram, because I was like, “Thank you for the 500 questions I've gotten in my DMs.” I adopt a more relaxed pattern. And so, it may be that I have a wider feeding window, I may do a longer fast, I definitely had days where I really wanted to travel and savor the foods of where we were traveling to. I might have had something around breakfast time, I might have eaten something midday, I might have had a dinner. I would say, I allotted a lot of flexibility. We did a lot of walking. We were very physically active. So, I wasn't worried if I was consuming more food because I know for myself personally. It isn't dessert unless it's chocolate and there's just not a lot of chocolate there. For me, there wasn't the temptation of having dessert. It was more-- one place or we traveled to, they would make me gluten free bread, which I then felt obligated to eat, which I then slathered a lot of butter on. And so, I just savored the fact that I was on vacation.

The honest answer is everything was a little different each day, I definitely had some days where I would have-- there might have been a day where I eat more than I normally did. The next day I might have just fasted longer. The thing that I found most humorous was obviously, I've teenage boys. So, they ate voluminous amounts of food 24/7. I would sit down and try to explain to a waiter or waitstaff that I wasn't eating, they were like, “Are you sick, are you on a diet?” And so, finally, it just said, “No, I intermittent fast” and they're like, “What is that?” That was a very easy way to make conversation with people, but I just leaned into my body, I made sure I hit those protein macros more often than I asked for extra protein. Anytime there was a steak served, I always asked for a bigger piece of steak, which they were humored to say they're like, “You really want more steak?” I was like, “More steak.” 

I think the message I would send to our community is to just be open, to not being so strict on vacation. To me, I just enjoyed eating foods I don't normally eat and then not stressing about it, because I was doing so much walking and I knew I could just augment what I was doing very easily. The next day, it's like, “Okay, yesterday, I had gluten free bread twice. Am I going to beat myself up? Absolutely not. Am I going to make sure I fast maybe a little bit longer today and then I really lean into those non-starchy veggies and lots of protein? Absolutely.” I came back from vacation. I have not weighed myself, but my clothes fit the way they did before I left for vacation. And so, from my perspective, it was a win-win without feeling any sense of guilt. Having a conversation with my kids all along the way. They think I'm weird anyway that need as much food as they do. But just encouraging them, “Try something new, I tried lots of new food,” and I definitely felt it was the perfect balance of having fun, hitting most of my macros most days because I can conventionally, visually evaluate like, “Did I hit my protein macros,” and then just enjoying the rest, and not being super strict.

But I might be one of those people that's just unusual or odd that I've never been someone like I go on vacation. I blow the Mother Lode on my nutrition because I just don't feel good and it's more important to me that I sleep well and I feel good then it is that I eat something that I know isn't going to agree with me. So, it's easy to avoid those kinds of things. For me, those kinds of foods are generally alcohol and a lot of sweets. In Eastern Europe, there just aren't a lot of sweets, at least, not where we were. If they did, it was more like bread sweets, which just isn't really my thing anyway. But if they had showed me a lot of chocolate and I did indulge in some chocolate in Vienna, there was this amazing chocolatier that was there and we got some tiny truffles, but they were delicious and I was like, “That was worth it.” But beyond that, unless it's chocolate, it's not dessert in my mind.

Melanie Avalon: Well, first of all, for me for traveling, I haven't traveled that much recently. But the one thing I used to dread before adopting a Whole Foods type lifestyle and intermittent fasting, I would be the type that would just go crazy with all the food and everything. Now, I remember feeling so happy once I found a dietary approach that I genuinely-- I love the foods that I eat, and I can still eat the way I eat at restaurants and such and still enjoy it to the same extent that I would have before with the way I used eat. I'm super grateful that-- It gets rid of the one stress I had surrounding traveling, which was just going off the rails with diet, because now, I just keep doing what I'm doing with the jet lag and such. Have you ever used fasting to align your circadian rhythm with the new time zone?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I definitely do that. In fact, I'm the person on the plane that never eats. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: You and me both.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I don't eat on the plane and I have to always just explain to-- Yes, I know. They ordered me a gluten free and dairy free meat. Yes, I know that they did. I won't eat it. Thank you very much. And then they just look at me like I have two heads, but I just find that I do a whole lot better especially if I'm not sleeping well on the plane. I didn't on the way to Prague and we had a two hour-- It's not worth boring the listeners with the two-hour ground delay we had. We were on the plane, and there was some maintenance form that hadn't been properly signed, and so, we had to go back to the gate, so, it ended up being a 10-hour flight. By the time that we touched down in Prague, I hadn't slept much at all. I always credit hydration electrolytes and fasting for helping me get pretty quickly on schedule. And so, for me, it's just one less thing to worry about. 

Then I'm not dealing with eating food that is not going to agree with me, although I always travel with Paleovalley beef jerky and salted macadamia nuts, and a little bit of dark chocolate. Those are things I typically travel with. If I were exhausted and starving, I could have something. But I do think that utilization of fasting as an adjunct to improving jet lag, I think I really credit it with being able to travel as much as we do and feeling-- When I hit the ground, I don't have the degree of jetlag I used to have when I was younger, which you would think would be completely the opposite seeing as I'm now older, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the circadian biology, it's get light exposure, get hydrated, get yourself moving. We did a lot of walking on the first day in Prague, a lot. I really credit that with everyone being able to get on that schedule, 26 hours ahead of me, it's manageable, but not feeling quite as jetlagged as we could have been. 

Melanie Avalon: I think it's such a valuable hack that a lot of people don't realize and there's actually been studies on it. They've studied using fasting. I'm trying to remember-- It's been a while since I read it, but there was one on jetlag and using fasting patterns to basically alleviate those symptoms, because like you said, they are such a-- What's the word? Zeitgeist? Oh, no, no, zeitgeber, so basically something that informs your body of the time. [chuckles] You can travel, and essentially adopt the pattern you would have had in your normal time zone, and it can sink your body to the new time zone. If I'm just traveling, because when I was in California, I would often travel back and forth between Eastern time zone and Pacific, and that's not a huge difference, but there was zero issue with switching back and forth. Continental travel for me is no issue, because I just always stick to my window which is an evening dinner and I just basically reset my body wherever I go.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, the fasting longer piece is usually how I do that. I'll be in Austin in a couple days and I already know-- I’ve an early morning flight, I'll land there at 12, and my plan is to get off my flight. I know exactly where I want to go for lunch. I'm going to have a big lunch, and I'll you know break my fast which will probably be fairly long, almost probably I would guess closer to 24 hours at that point, but I'll break my fast, so that I'll get as quickly as I can, because if you look at conventional research on changing time zones, you need one day per hour of difference, where is time for that. I don't have time for that. I know you don't have time for that. And so, I do all the things to make sure I try my hardest to buffer those time differences as quickly as possible. But I love that you even at your stage, you're able to go back and forth to the West Coast and then just keep that consistency with your meal timing.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, it was literally no issue doing that for me. You mentioned that when you were in Prague and such, people would look at you strange with the fasting, so, did you find that--? Because now in the US, I feel fasting is a known thing, intermittent fasting is. Did you find it wasn't as much of a thing there?

Cynthia Thurlow: No. I think it has a lot to do with Europeans overall. They eat smaller portions. They don't understand-- You ate last night, but now, you're not hungry at all. You're hungry, but you're not going to eat. And so, just trying to explain to them that this is not a diet. This is a lifestyle. I do this, so that I can enjoy all the other things I eat in my feeding window and so, I definitely felt I had a lot of conversations, although, ironically, for part of our trip we were on a ship, there was a very large table of Americans sitting next to us, and I heard a woman say, “Oh, yeah, I've been using this new strategy. It's intermittent fasting.” And so, I heard that, my whole table, my kids and my husband, their ears perked up. I was humored to listen to her talk about this. She was probably a woman in a different life stage than I am, but she was talking about it very openly and saying, this is how she has been able to fuel her lifestyle and feels good. She was explaining it to the waitstaff as well. And so, I feel I was probably not the only one that talked to them about that. But they were fascinated. They're like, “You choose not to eat, even though you could.” I was like, “Yes.” They're fascinating.

Melanie Avalon: This is something I haven't looked up. I wonder if there are any other countries that-- I feel it's well known in the UK because we have a lot of UK listeners and Canada. I wonder if there are any other countries that practice this as a lifestyle more and more. 

Cynthia Thurlow: What's interesting is, a lot of the Eastern European countries we were in are predominantly Roman Catholic, at least based on the guides that we had, discussions that we had. And so, a lot of the major religions, it's an aspect of practicing their religion. I would imagine that there's probably some degree of fasting, although it's probably more related to high holy days as opposed to something people are doing ritualistically every day. But I can tell you that when I talked about fasting with people who are curious, they were like, “Wow.” But what's interesting to me consistently and I was in five different countries, people were much more active and it could have also been that we were closer to cities and where people are just more active to begin with. But I didn't see the amount of obesity we have here in the States. People were very active, portions were small, certain countries, there's a lot more smoking, but people were just more focused on enjoying lives. They're enjoying their lives. They don't work the same hours that Americans do. I think that there's a lot more savoring experiences in their lifestyle. And of course, this is a gross generality. I was not in every square inch of each one of those five countries, but just my general observations, being a tourist, I was really pleasantly surprised to see that.

Melanie Avalon: And speaking to the religious piece, I'm actually currently reading-- It's funny. I thought I had read the book, but I actually haven't. It's Jason Fung and Megan Ramos’ Life in the Fasting Lane. So, I'm enjoying that book. But I think it's in that book, they were saying, they made the case that every single major religion has fasting in it. I was like, “hmm.”

Cynthia Thurlow: It really does. It's interesting that when people try to, “Oh, it’s new and novel.” No, it's not. [laughs] It dates back to Biblical times, people and beyond.

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Melanie Avalon: Last question. So, you're a chocolate person?

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm absolutely a dark chocolate aficionado snob/patron. Love it. It's my one like vice. It's the one thing my husband will say to my kids, “Don't touch anything of your mother's as it pertains to chocolate without asking her first.” I'm always like, “It's the only thing in the house that's mine.”

Melanie Avalon: That's my mom, too. I'm fascinated why there's a dichotomy between chocolate and vanilla. Why? Because that must just be cultural. It's not they're opposites in their compounds inside of them, but I am very much a vanilla person.

Cynthia Thurlow: I like vanilla, but I love chocolate.

Melanie Avalon: I like chocolate, but I don't crave chocolate ever. I think I have once and I was like, “What does this mean?”

Cynthia Thurlow: [laughs] Well, that's why we say to people, when our waiters would always offer dessert options, I was like, “No, I'm good.” They were always like, “We don't understand.” I said, “Unless, it's chocolate, it's not dessert.” That's my mentality. I've been that way my whole life. It's not even a chocolate cookie, chocolate cake, it's like, “Give me a piece of chocolate and my life is good.” That is my mentality. Whereas my kids and my husband, if you give them ice cream, they don't need anything fancy. They would just love some ice cream. And so, I think each one of us in our minds designate. For me, it's not a craving. It's a polyphenol rich substance that if used appropriately is something that can be beneficial to your lifestyle. But for me, I'm not eating a Hershey's chocolate bar. I don't even like that kind of chocolate. I am a purveyor of higher end dark chocolate, and I just have a little bit, and I'm so happy. In a pinch, I might have some stevia sweetened dark chocolate in a pinch. However, that chocolatier in Vienna, oh, my gosh. I even took photos, I took videos, it's all in my fasting stories, little thing for Austria. Yeah, for me, those are moments that make me so happy. Something really simple like that. I don't have to make it complicated, it doesn't need to be Black Forest Cake or some type of intricate latticework on a pie. Nope, just give me a piece of dark chocolate and I'm happy and very simple.

Melanie Avalon: I know listeners know exactly what my equivalent is to that. Do you know what mine is?

Cynthia Thurlow: No, I don't. You have to tell me. 

Melanie Avalon: Funfetti cake.

Cynthia Thurlow: Really? 

Melanie Avalon: Yes.

Cynthia Thurlow: That's--. Is it the moistness, is it the little sprinkles?

Melanie Avalon: There's some chemical they have that just speaks to my brain. But yeah, the Funfetti cake, so any birthday cake with the Funfetti flair to it, it used to be a running thing on the show because I hadn't had it since changing my diet. Gin was insistent that if I were to have it now, I wouldn't like it anymore and I was like, “No, you don't understand.” [laughs] It will taste amazing. And then finally I tried. They have a gluten free version. So, it wasn't even the original and it was the most fantastic thing. Oh, here's a question. Did you do ZOE, the muffins?

Cynthia Thurlow: It's still in my freezer and my husband is so mad at me because we just had a colleague of mine, they have a cow share, and they had too much meat. They gave us part of their cow share, which means our freezer is completely packed with grass-fed meat and my husband's like, “Please get rid of these.” I was like, “I promise I'm going to do them” and he's like, “You've been telling me that for three months.” “No, I need to do it. It's embarrassing.” I'm saying this to the entire IF Podcast community. I will be doing that the month of July. I will be doing it. It's some two-day, one-day interval. It's coming up.

Melanie Avalon: I'm very excited to hear your experience and lot to talk about it on the show. I have a theory about it, though, and I polled my audience, and my polling confirmed my theory, which is that the muffins, people will talk about how they're the worst tasting thing. I was looking at the ingredient list before doing it. Again, it's something Gin and I would talk about and I was like, “I'm going to love these muffins.” I can just tell. These muffins are going to taste like heaven and they did because this was the first time eating a sugar fat process combination and probably, I don't even know how many years. It was literally, I saw my brain light up. It felt like a drug to me. And then I pulled in my Facebook group and I asked, “Did you like the muffins?” There were four options. It was like, I liked the muffins and I don't normally eat processed foods, I like them and I do eat processed foods, I don't like them and I—So, every combination of that. Basically, the people who don't normally eat processed foods liked the muffins and people who do, do not.

Cynthia Thurlow: I'll be interested. I'm not a vanilla cake person. Here again, you can see, there has not been this desire to eat said muffins, but I'm like, “I have it, I'm going to do it. I'm probably going to have a love-hate experience with this,” because three muffins is a lot. I was like, “How am I going to eat all that, especially because they're not chocolate?”

Melanie Avalon: I was like, “This is going to be a breeze.” I was licking the foil, I was like, [chuckles] “I need more.” Because then there's this miserable period where you can't eat for so many-- For listeners, I'm just assuming listeners know what ZOE is because we talk about it all the time on the show, but it's a program created by Tim Spector, who I've had on Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, if you want to listen to that episode. Have you interviewed him?

Cynthia Thurlow: I have not. The reason why I have not is because I think I literally went through-- I got them and then I had that whole histamine response, head to toe hives after being treated for Candida and parasites. And so, then that put the kibosh on doing anything. I explained to them, I was like, “I had three days of systemic hives, something's amok.” And so, that got stabilized and then I had surgery, and I was not-- Because you can't exercise when you eat those things. I was like, “There's no way I'm eating this and then being completely sedentary.” I've just had a million excuses, which I didn't mean to make excuses. It's just been a couple of things have happened that I've not been able to do it sooner, but it is on my to do list, it will happen in the month of July. So, I haven't had them on yet, because I haven't done the testing. I had to explain to his assistant very nicely, I was like, “I am so sorry. It will happen this summer and then we'll get him on in the fall.”

Melanie Avalon: I really, really think his work is very nuanced. He's very plant based and everything, but he just does a really nice-- really, at least from my perspective approaching as unbiased as you can be analysis of the literature. His chapter on wine and alcohol was-- It's the first time I've read somebody basically-- He talks about the role of wine, and alcohol, and health, and he literally says in the book that and this is very controversial. So, I don't even want to say it. But even with pregnancy, it's probably not as much of an issue as people think. But in any case, so, for listeners, what the program is, it's these muffins that you have, and you wear a CGM, they provide you with the CGM, and it evaluates how your body processes sugars and fats, you also do a gut microbiome test, then it gives you a personalized interpretation of how you basically handle food, and what foods you should be eating. I think I have a code for that. Had they given you a code yet?

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm the slacker that they're waiting on me to get my act together. So, I will eventually have a code.

Melanie Avalon: My code is MELANIEAVALON10, yours will probably be CYNTHIATHURLOW10, because I think that's the format they use. One last thing about it, though, that's funny is, so, when I looked at how you have to do it, because basically the first day you eat these muffins, and then I think you have to wait four or five hours. For me, they were a miserable four or five hours because you basically eat something that just spikes your blood sugar, and then you have to fast. It's so hard. I was like, “This is what it's like to not be adapted to fast, to live in the blood sugar swinging state.

Cynthia Thurlow: Eating a Standard American Diet. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I was like, “This is what this feels like.” It gave me empathy for people who haven't experienced the ease of fasting yet because I'm like, “This is probably what they're thinking fasting would be,” which is just really unpleasant. If you do a dinner only eating window like me, you can still hack it. I started it at, I don't even know what I did. I timed it so that I still could eat my dinner pretty late, and still have the muffin, and all be within the evening window. I think I was eating at 2 AM.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, for me, because I am so protein centric, the thought of having something that I know is going to dysregulate my blood sugar so substantially, which has not been-- The N of 1 experiment has not been the one I've been looking forward to doing. I'm like, “Okay, this is not going to make me feel good.” Years ago, before I started putting two and two together as a perimenopausal woman, I would say to my husband-- Sometimes, we would have these dinner parties, and we would all eat good food, and then you'd have, I don't know-- Back in the day, when I could get away with eating a little more dessert and having a little more alcohol or having any alcohol, and then I would want to take a nap, and I didn't realize because my blood sugar had crashed, I was like, “That's just not a good feeling.” And so, I'm going to think optimistically that I'm going to be able to weather whatever happens. But for me personally, as much like you do, I think because we eat such a nutrient dense Whole Foods diet and keep our blood sugar really within a very healthy range, those extremes don't make you feel good. And so, I need to just rip off the band-aid and do it.

Melanie Avalon: I was so apprehensive about doing it. What I do recommend is planning it out, so that in that time following it, you have an activity, something very distracting. Actually, a fun fact they might have changed this. I feel I probably drove them crazy. I was asking them, because they have really amazing customer service and the app when you're doing it, and you can message and ask a lot of questions, and I asked so many questions. You technically, at least when I did it don't have to do day two of the muffins. Just a little fun fact.

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, I'll have to check that out because I have a package of three and a package of two, and I just kept saying, “God.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. At least when I did it day two, it did not inform your personal results. It only informed their data collection. So, I was like, “Well, if it's not affecting me, I don't know if I'm going to--" But then actually, I did end up doing it because they were so delicious and I was like, “I want to repeat this experience.”

Cynthia Thurlow: Your fun Funfetti ZOE, that's hilarious. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, So, for listeners, we'll put a link to everything that we talked about in the show notes. Okay, shall we answer some listener questions?

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. 

Melanie Avalon: All right. To start things off, we have a question from Deanna and the subject is: “IF and the aging menstrual cycle.” And Deanna says, “Hi, I have tried to search for answers on this. I googled, but I'm not finding any info from actual IF-ers. Only what Western medicine has to say. I've been doing IF for about three months. I started in February. I was really surprised at how simple it was right from the start. I thought, “Wow, I have finally found something that works” is totally doable and actually sustainable. Yay! I have been clean fasting since day three, which is when I learned what it was. Even the black coffee was a fairly easy transition. I originally thought it would be totally impossible and wasn't even going to try it, but I did and now, I crave my black coffee. I'm still amazed. That was one month-- One month ago, I experienced some cramping and a very short spell of bleeding. It stopped after a couple of days and it wasn't heavy at all, it was somewhere between spotting and light. But now, a few days ago, cramping again. Nothing sharp, but dull and constant, and the bleeding started again, but heavier this time around, also a longer duration for days so far. 

I thought maybe I'd worked too hard. I raked and burned leaves all day, Saturday and Sunday for 15 hours. I'm 52 years old. I had an IUD placed in January of 2018. I stopped getting a period entirely early mid-2020, which was awesome. I was told at the time of the IUD that I was in perimenopause and that by the time it would need to be removed, it's a five-year thing. I would likely be in menopause and would probably not have a period anymore. What are your thoughts about my resurrected period? I’ve a doctor appointment this week, it's about something else entirely, but I will bring this up. I'm just afraid the doctor will poo-poo my IF lifestyle. I feel IF has to be a part of what's happening, but I was hoping it was just making me age and reverse. Ha, ha, could that be true? I think it sounds reasonable. I would love to hear what you think about all of this. I know I can't possibly be the only one that has had this issue, but I asked in my IF Facebook group, and everyone thought it was really odd, they had never heard of such a thing, and they all told me to contact my doctor. I'll be watching for podcasts about this, but if you don't, no worries, I'll keep reading and searching for answers. Thank you for your time, Deanna.” So, this is a fun, interesting question.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. Well, I have multiple thoughts. Deanna, thank you for your question. Being 52 years of age, here in the United States, the average age of menopause is 51. When your doctor placed, I presume a progesterone-related IUD, intrauterine device. You mentioned that you went two years without any bleeding, whether or not that is a byproduct of the IUD, I'm not sure. Could that have been menopause already? Not sure. And then you started having more bleeding. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence about women. When they start fasting, sometimes, they may get changes in their menstrual cycle either lighter, heavier, more frequently, less frequently, and I always give women the advice that to weather whatever is happening, meaning it could be your body, just finding a way to recalibrate hormones in a healthy way. Really the only way to know where you are and at 52, you're very close to menopause. What we typically end up seeing is, as women are at the tail end of perimenopause, for anyone's listening, 10 to 15 years preceding menopause starts in your mid-30s, mid to late 30s, you're there, and this is when we start to get this drop off on progesterone. We get some relative estrogen dominance. 

Women can have very different experiences in perimenopause. Some people breeze through it very easily, others really struggle through a variety of reasons. When you see your doctor, I would absolutely identify that you hadn't had any type of bleeding or cycles in about two years and whether or not that's a byproduct of the IUD. I'm not 100% certain. I have plenty of patients that don't get menstrual cycles while they're on the IUD. I have others that do sometimes have some ovulatory discomfort, although the closer you get to menopause, you're not ovulating every month. Could this have just been a quirky ovulatory period? Absolutely. But your doctor needs to run some labs. I actually have done quite a few podcasts on these kinds of topics. If you're not a listener of Everyday Wellness, most recently, I did two podcasts with Dr. Tabatha Barber. She's called The Gutsy Gynecologist. She's absolutely lovely. We talked about topics just like this. How do we find out where we are in perimenopause, are we in menopause, what's going on? The IUD is just a band -aid, so it can really mask knowing when that transitional period has occurred. They can draw an FSH, a follicular stimulating hormone, typically that needs to be drawn at least on two separate occasions. This is communication between the brain ovaries. And typically, when it's greater than 40 on two separate occasions, that can be a sign. It's not definitive that you are very close to menopause.

You can look at a DUTCH, a dried urine and saliva test and I've done a lot of podcasts with different experts talking about the DUTCH and the validity of that. But I think this is just one of those times where as your body is getting better balance, you're probably getting more insulin sensitivity, probably getting a little bit better balanced with your sex hormones, and better appetite regulation. You may see some changes in your menstrual cycle, but this is one of those vague questions. Meaning not that you haven't given enough information, it's just we need more information to be able to provide additional insights. But I would say Dr. Tabatha was a recent favorite. I actually did a podcast with Dr. Sara Gottfried recently. But if you do a Google search on my website, it'll bring up all the perimenopause and menopause-related podcasts that I've done. I can tell you from personal experience that a lot of women go from having super regular cycles to then having none, I've had women, as they get closer and closer to menopause, I've had a lot of other women that just start having more and more regular cycles, heavier, lighter, shorter, more frequent. For each one of us, it's really very unique. Sometimes, we can talk to our mothers to see what their experiences were like. But average age of menopause in the United States is 51. So, it's very likely you're very close to that period. Good luck. Do you have anything you want to add, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Well, first of all, I just knew that you'd be a wealth of knowledge about all of that. I'll just add two really quick things. I did find one really interesting review, especially because Deanna says, she likes reading and researching. It's called menstrual cycle variability and the perimenopause. It just talks about this whole transition, and process, and why those fluctuations might be happening. I always think it's funny when there's, what's the word, colloquial language, very casual language. The abstract is very scientific. It says, “another hypothesis is that the increased variability and that variability being the changes in your cycle” reflects “slippage of the hypothalamus, which loses the ability to regulate menstrual cycles at older reproductive ages.” Basically, the hypothalamus because it talks about how the dwindling pool of follicles is changing and creating changes. But I just love this concept of the hypothalamus. I don't know if I love the concept, but it's a funny concept to me that the hypothalamus is just--

Cynthia Thurlow: It’s a slipped gear. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. It's not quite handling the signals that are coming in and not quite sure what's going on, which would make sense with something like hormonal birth control or an IUD affecting those hormones and further exacerbating how the hypothalamus is interpreting what's going on. So, that would make sense.

Cynthia Thurlow: Do you want to know something interesting? In my book, I actually talk about the five phases of perimenopause, because there's just not enough research done in this area, but I'm getting ready to interview Dr. [unintelligible [00:46:49] Brighton, and there is some research to show that if you're on oral contraceptives for years and years and years, like many of us were including myself that it may actually hasten going into menopause. So, it's something that I'm going to talk to her about in greater detail, but the use of synthetic hormones may actually shorten that duration of reproductive years. I thought that was really interesting. For listeners, once I interview her, I will then feel more comfortable talking about that. But I do talk about in my book about perimenopause pretty extensively that there are these five identified phases of perimenopause. Do all of us go through each one of those neatly and nicely? Probably, not. But I love that you brought up the interrelationship between the HPA axis or HPO, hypothalamus pituitary ovarian axis. There were always constant communication and it's a slipped gear that it was working efficiently and now, it's like slipping a gear on a bike.

Melanie Avalon: That actually reminds me of, I would be curious if you have any thoughts on this. I interviewed Simon Hill this week. Do you know him? 

Cynthia Thurlow: I don't.

Melanie Avalon: The Proof Is in the Plants guy. He's really big in the vegan sphere. He was so nice. It was a really good episode. One of the things we're talking about, I don't remember why this came up, but we were talking about the role of reproduction evolutionarily, and how basically our bodies, the goal in our body from an evolutionary perspective is to have a child. And so, what I was wondering, I don't know if they've done studies on this and I haven't looked into this, but I wonder if you've had a child and you control for-- Let's assume that you have a child and you return, afterwards you regain your metabolic health to the same extent that you had it before. So, a healthy person who's equal levels of “health on both sides of a pregnancy” is her lifespan going to be shorter, because she's accomplished the goal compared to a woman who never has a child. If you haven't had a child as the body's still like, “We can do this.”

Cynthia Thurlow: These deep questions that Melanie comes up with I'm like, “I don't even know which angle to hit that from.” It's interesting because you'll see certain types of cancers are more prevalent in nulliparous, which means women who have not had a child.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, what's that word? I need this word in my vocabulary.

Cynthia Thurlow: Nulliparous. Yes, it's one of those weird, awkward medical words.

Melanie Avalon: Nulliparous. It a noun like I am nulliparous or it's an adjective?

Cynthia Thurlow: No, no, I am nulliparous or we would talk about a patient, this is a nulliparous female. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, so adjective.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. From my perspective, looking at it from the perspective of whether it's by choice or someone tried and couldn't does that put them at greater risk for certain types of disorders, cancers, etc. I come at it from a different angle. This is the thing I love about Melanie as my friend is that she comes up with such creative, interesting, refreshing takes on topics maybe that I've never even thought of-

Melanie Avalon: Thank you.

Cynthia Thurlow: -things I love about you, I'm like, “Oh, I hadn't thought about that before.”

Melanie Avalon: I love that you love engaging with the content or [laughs] just like, “Okay.”

Cynthia Thurlow: No, that's more to critically thinking. It's putting those thoughts out there.

Melanie Avalon: When I asked Simon about it, it wasn't the first time I thought about it. I think I thought about it a lot because I don't know, but I don't think I'm going to have children. And so, I'm so obsessed with longevity. I've thought about this concept a lot. Is this hurting or helping my longevity?

Cynthia Thurlow: I think I would probably guess it might help your longevity and I love my children. Let me be very clear. I was meant to be a mom, I'm happy being a mom, but there are moments in my children's lives that I know have hastened my longevity when I say this with love and reverence, I have a child who fell out of a second story window when he was two and had no injuries. Said same child when he was 10 years old-- 10, yeah, it was four years ago. 10 years old, coming back from all stars practice for swimming, fell off his bike and broke his arms, and needed emergency surgery, and walked in the house and his arms were concave, and I was like, “If any child has hastened my life, it's this kid.” I have no doubt there have been moments as a parent that have been terrifying and have likely killed off a lot of telomere length, and given me gray hair that I now pay copious amounts to cover up and that's a whole separate topic. But yeah, I would imagine it would probably help your longevity, Melanie. That's my guess.

Melanie Avalon: Oh, my goodness. Two quick things. One, he fell out of a two-story window?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes. To give context to this conversation, this was the same week after his brother had fallen and broken his arm, and we had to take ambulance to a tertiary care center, because the hospital near my house would not reduce his fracture. My anxiety levels as a clinician were through the roof. Yes, and this child who we call him like MacGyver, he managed to open up a window out of curiosity, he was looking at something outside, pushed the screen and fell out two stories.

Melanie Avalon: Did you see him fall out?

Cynthia Thurlow: I did. I was sitting in the den and I saw a flash of red, and it was my two-year old, and it was the worst thing that's ever happened to us. 

Melanie Avalon: I can't even imagine.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. And so, for listeners, he was fine. There was an ER physician walking her dog who was at his side and called EMS. I can get very emotional thinking about it. He was okay. We spent two days in the PICU and everyone was amazed, this kid did okay. From that point forward, I was like, “This kid is going to do big things,” because this could have ended very differently. I was an ER nurse, a trauma nurse. So, I've seen lots of horrible things happen with kids falling out of windows and the house that we lived in at the time any other window if he had fallen out if he would have fallen on something hard. 

Melanie Avalon: What did he fall on to?

Cynthia Thurlow: Grass. We had a bay window and so, he must have pitched himself in such a way that he bounced off of this other window, and then fell into the grass, and it had rained the night before. So, the ground was soft.

Melanie Avalon: Was he all scraped up?

Cynthia Thurlow: He had a scratch on his toe. When I say my kid is meant to do big things, [laughs] I have no doubt. But for the longest time, anytime, I heard an ambulance or a fire truck because the ER doc, who was at my son's side said, “If it were really bad, I would have called the chopper” and she's like, “You know that.” I was just like, “Whoa,” as a parent. Then the kid, when he was 10, fell and broke both his arms and had to go in for major-- He has plates and rods in his arms because he did such a bang-up job. I've told him, I was like, “Liam, I can't handle another big thing [laughs]. you have done it all.” Yeah. So, I think that being a parent is a wild ride and one that I'm grateful for. [laughs] I can speak from two experiences being a parent that have definitely aged my husband and we joke about it. We're like, “Yeah, he keeps us on our toes.” Actually, that's why we don't have any more children. We're like, “That was God's way of telling us we were done.” We have our hands full and he reminds us of that every day why he would never have been a middle child.

Melanie Avalon: Wow. Well, the second thing that reminded me up was, last night, I listened to Rhonda Patrick's newest episode. It's with a guy named Stuart Phillips. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes, I need to listen to that. 

Melanie Avalon: I really recommend it for listeners. It's a deep dive into protein intake and muscle. Really, really fascinating. A lot of stuff we talk about on this show. They talk about, do you really need the amount of protein that they say, and he argues that, yes, that dietary recommendations should not be called recommendations, they should be called minimal intakes. But he was talking about why when you're very young, you break a bone or something happens and kids, they don't need rehab or anything. The body fixes itself. And then when you're older, not so much. So, he just talks about that concept. So, I can put a link to it in the show notes. 

Friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get 50% off a product that has truly changed my life. Do you experience stress, or anxiety, or chronic pain? Do you have trouble sleeping at least once a week? If you do, trust me, you are not alone. I personally have explored so many avenues for how to have a healthy relationship with stress and finding the world of CBD oil has been absolutely incredible for that. After doing more and more research, I realized just how incredible the health benefits of CBD are. CBD regulates your cannabinoid system kind of like an adaptogen making you feel better naturally. It's not addictive, it's not a crutch, basically, it's just helping your body function better when it comes to stress, anxiety, pain, and sleeplessness. I take it daily for my mood and the effects are profound. In fact, I even got robbed last year and I went from crying with stress and anxiety to taking some Feals and laughing. I said to my mom, "Mom, see how effective this is?" Due to all of its health benefits, we knew we wanted to partner with a CBD company for the podcast. But I have very stringent criteria. You guys know this. So many brands approached us and I kept just saying, “No,” because nothing fit all of my criteria. I wanted CBD oil that was full spectrum, tested for purity, organic, made with MCT oil as the carrier, and that I actually experience benefits from. That's a pretty tall order to fill. We said no to a lot of brands, and then Feals came along, and it was meant to be. I personally tried it out and started seeing massive effects on my sleep and stress. Feals is so easy to take. You can just put a few drops under your tongue and you'll feel the difference within minutes. I truly do feel it within minutes. 

Of course, it is important to remember that CBD works differently for everybody based on your own unique cannabinoid system, so you might need to work to find your perfect dose. Experiment over the course of a week or so, and you may find that you need more or less depending on the effects that you're looking for. I'm also super grateful, because they have an incredible offer for our audience. You can start feeling better with Feals. Become a member today by going to feals.com/ifpodcast and you'll get 50% off your first order with free shipping. That's F-E-A-L-S dotcom slash IFPODCAST to become a member and get 50% automatically taken off your first order with free shipping. feals.com/ifpodcast. When you get that offer, you'll be joining the Feals community and you'll get Feals delivered directly to your doorstep every month. You'll save money on every order and of course you can pause or cancel anytime. So, definitely try it out for the first month with our code for 50% off and see how it works for you. We'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now, back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: All right, shall we do one more question?

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. This comes from Monica. Subject is: “Magnesium question.” “Can you share your favorite magnesium brand for sleep? I was using magnesium complex by Nature's Way. I ran out and I couldn't find it, and used another brand, and don't really care for it. Before I go looking for the Nature's Way, I wanted to see what you recommended. Thank you.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Monica, thank you for your question. [chuckles] I always want to laugh when I get questions like this that are so perfect for what's happening in my life product wise. I feel like Cynthia I have to fill you in on all the inside jokes on this show. Gin and I used to laugh because one time we got an email from somebody who basically accused us of creating questions, making up questions to plug products or whatever and we were like, “If people knew how many questions we get, they would realize we would never need to [laughs] create a question.” We have hundreds of questions. But in any case, I did want to time this for this episode because I am currently this week. When this comes out, it will have already happened. But right now, the moment I'm in right now, we are launching my magnesium supplement this week, which is so so exciting. It's been such a long journey. That's with MD Logic. My first one, the AvalonX serrapeptase. This is AvalonX Magnesium 8 and then (broad spectrum complex). I know Monica's asking about sleep and I'm going to speak to that specifically because there is a certain type of magnesium that is better for sleep. 

But just in general, magnesium and my head has been literally yesterday was just magnesium all day. Researching, and writing, and getting together promo material, but basically, if you go into the literature on magnesium, it is shocking the extent to which this mineral is crucial for so many processes in our body. They used to say over 300 in somatic processes, but I found a really recent article, I think 2022 saying, actually, now it's over 600. It's involved in basically, every single cell, so a third of the magnesium is in our cells, two thirds-is in our bones, less than 1% is actually in our bloodstream, and the significance, on top of that it's actually highly controlled in our bloodstream. It's calcium. It’s how people will say that a certain diet might not affect your calcium levels and you can get a blood test and look at your calcium. But pretty much your blood calcium is probably always going to be in normal range. Things have to be really off for it not to be. 

The same is with magnesium, because so little of it is actually in the bloodstream. It might not be reflective of underlying deficiencies. It's so important. It's involved in energy production, creating ATP in the mitochondria, it helps create glutathione, so it can serve as an antioxidant, and then cardiovascular health, bone health, blood sugar control, muscle recovery, so many things, and of course, sleep, and mood. The AvalonX-- which was so exciting, you can buy this now. It is available. AvalonX Magnesium 8 will be great for all of that, it will also support sleep. So, Monica, definitely, definitely try that. On top of that there's a certain type of magnesium called Magnesium Threonate. It is actually a type of magnesium that specifically crosses the blood-brain barrier. It has an even more potent effect on sleep and relaxation. That would be something to consider. I'm going to be releasing a magnesium threonate probably next. So, stay tuned for that. I think we're going to call it Magnesium Nightcap or something. The reason Threonate is not in my blend is because you actually need a pretty high dose to get that therapeutic effect and so, we wanted it to be a separate add on type thing. But yeah, so basically, Monica, my recommendation is getting my Magnesium Spectrum 8, and then the Nightcap when it's available, and you can use the coupon code, MELANIEAVALON, and that will get you 10% off. So, that was a lot about magnesium. Cynthia, do you take magnesium?

Cynthia Thurlow: I do, I do. With my background in cardiology, I'm very mag savvy and I'm super excited about your new product. But if Monica is looking for something right now specific to mag L Threonate, while you're waiting for your next product to come out. I like designs for health. You're right. You do need quite a bit in order for it to be properly therapeutic, but that's actually the product I take before bed. I do take other types of magnesium during the day and I also fervently believe that people need both oral and transdermal magnesium to be able to absorb it properly. The product that I recommended to my cardiology, my electrophysiology patients, so people that were dealing with palpitations, and had defibrillator errors, and pacemakers, and all sorts of electrical issues with their heart, when I could get their magnesium levels more therapeutic, and then this started to work into all of my work with everyone. Everyone needs magnesium. There's no one listening who does not need repletion, we lose it when we're stressed, we lose it if we're having diarrhea, if we're having an acute illness. Certainly, when you travel, you're losing electrolytes. And so, I'm a big fan of transdermal applications. There's a company called Ancient Minerals. I have no affiliation with them. I just think they have high quality.

Melanie Avalon: I've used them before. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, they have sprays, they have lotions. I’ll typically recommend people spray. The oil is my first choice. Couple pumps into two hands, rub it on your trunk, your arms and legs, leave it on for 20 minutes. Use it before you get in the shower. You need about 20 minutes for absorption. When people do both of those things, they supplement with oral magnesium and they also use transdermal magnesium, they find that that is the perfect combination. For a lot of people, they need the additional, literally layer of magnesium to help them with sleep quality. Now, I'll be completely honest and say that when we get questions about sleep, there's so much that goes into sleep. Maybe we'll have to do a whole separate-- We’ll have to do a whole episode just talking about sleep modalities, because there are so many things that can impact our sleep quality. I know Mel and I are very, very proactive about our sleep and I feel I have maybe finally for myself found the right combinations and the right things that I do prior to bedtime and right before I go to bed that have really netted an impressive amount of improved sleep quality measured by Oura Ring data, etc. But I do think that using that two-pronged approach with magnesium is generally what I recommend. Transdermal and oral therapies, it sounds like Melanie has an amazing option right now. Magnesium L Threonate is the thing I think is so helpful for sleep and then using transdermal magnesium as well.

Melanie Avalon: Is it true? They say that this is why you experienced this and I experienced this that, if you put on a transdermal and it stings, they say it's because your skin is sucking it in so fast. That's why it stings. Do you know if that's true?

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, what I used to tell patients was that it was just validating that they needed more magnesium. Now, there are definitely people who are sensitive to magnesium. They'll feel tingly and it's uncomfortable. A little bit of tingle is expected. Really tingly, uncomfortable. 

Melanie Avalon: Mine was painful. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. Those people sometimes need the sensitive skin varieties of which Ancient Minerals has plenty of options. But I usually tell people, “It's just validation that you need to do this more often.” If you can tolerate, obviously, don't shave your skin and put it on. That would be torturing yourself. 20 minutes in your bathroom with your privacy, then jump in the shower. Some people don't like how it feels a little oily and I would say, just do it before-- I used to do before I would take a bath. I would literally just load up, do whatever I needed to do for bedtime, then get in the tub, then I would soak in more magnesium. I'm a little magnesium crazy. I'll admit after all the impressive things I saw it improve in patients, I was like, “This is something I need to commit to doing regularly.” But yeah, the tingle is generally a sign that needed the repletion.

Melanie Avalon: Gotcha. I'm glad you brought u, because I didn't even touch on how our modern lifestyles deplete our magnesium and-- [crosstalk] 

Cynthia Thurlow: Magnesium depleted soil. Just think about it. You could be eating all organic and you're just not getting the same nutrient profile that our grandparents did. It's just impossible.

Melanie Avalon: If you're eating conventional, specifically glyphosate, chelates, minerals. I know it can be controversial to talk about glyphosate. I literally read this in the PubMed scientific article I was reading.

Cynthia Thurlow: Have you interviewed Jeffrey Smith, yet?

Melanie Avalon: No. Ever since. [laughs] I feel so bad. I actually had it on my list to follow up with him. For listeners, he's a wealth of knowledge about GMOs, and glyphosate, and such.

Cynthia Thurlow: We'll plug my podcasts with him. But I interviewed him and the first thing I said to Melanie after I finished was, you need to interview him. He was just-- everything you wanted to know about GMOs, glyphosate in a way that is designed to educate and empower, and not scare the bejeebers out of you.

Melanie Avalon: What happened with that was he reached out to me independent of all of this and wanted to come on the show, and I got really excited, because I saw he had books on GMOs, and I was like, “Yes, I would love to do an episode on GMOs.” Then his people said, “Well, we really want to focus on his current work,” which was a little bit political and based on current events. I was like, “I just don't know if it's the best fit right now,” because this was a while ago and this was in the heat of a lot of political stuff. I don't think I really realized who he was. If so, I think I would have handled that differently and I reached back out to him ever since you told me about it, but I haven't heard back. So, I need to reach out again, because I really want to interview him now.

Cynthia Thurlow: I think you'd really like him. I know your listeners would really enjoy that conversation, too.

Melanie Avalon: Yes, to-do list. And then I will say just one last thing before we go. All the supplements that I make, I really wanted to make the best form of the supplements on the market and only what I would want to put in my body. It's free of all potentially problematic fillers, it's tested for allergens, super, high-quality, it has activated cofactors to help absorption, so, it has methylated B6, and then it has chelated manganese, because magnesium can actually reduce your manganese levels, so, it's to help with that. Definitely the way to go and that is again, avalonx.us, not to sound like a commercial. But this was absolutely amazing. I've missed talking to you, Cynthia, because it's been so long.

Cynthia Thurlow: I know. But the cool thing is, we're recording a second episode right after this.

Melanie Avalon: I know. [laughs] So, here we go. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly email questions@ifpodcast.com or you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. You can get all the stuff that we like at ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. You can follow us on Instagram. I am @melanieavalon, Cynthia is @cynthia_thurlow_ and we are @ifpodcast on Instagram, and I think I'll open up next week with something that we're talking about sleep. I started using something that I think has had a massive influence on my Oura Ring. So, maybe I'll start with that. All right, well, for listeners, this has been absolutely wonderful and I'll talk to you next week. But I'll actually talk to you right now. [laughs]

Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

STUFF WE LIKE

Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Cynthia: cynthiathurlow.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review in iTunes - it helps more than you know! 

 

 

Jul 03

Episode 272: Allergies, Cancer Cells, Hypothyroidism, Menopause, PCOS, High Carb Low Fat, Snacking, Low Iron, And More!

Intermittent Fasting

Welcome to Episode 272 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast, hosted by Melanie Avalon, author of What When Wine Diet: Lose Weight And Feel Great With Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, And Wine and Cynthia Thurlow, author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging.

Today's episode of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast is brought to you by:

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To submit your own questions, email questions@IFpodcast.com, or submit your questions here!! 

SHOW NOTES

FEALS: Go To feals.com/ifpodcast To Become A Member And Get 50% Off Your First Order, With Free Shipping!

BEAUTYCOUNTER: Keep Your Fast Clean Inside And Out With Safe Skincare! Shop With Us At melanieavalon.com/beautycounter or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow And Use The Code CLEANFORALL20 For 20% Off PLUS Something Magical Might Happen After Your First Order! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz: Melanieavalon.Com/Beautycounterquiz
Join Melanie's Facebook Group Clean Beauty And Safe Skincare With Melanie Avalon To Discuss And Learn About All The Things Clean Beauty, Beautycounter And Safe Skincare!

Ravenous: Otto Warburg, the Nazis, and the Search for the Cancer-Diet Connection (sam Apple)

The Cancer Code: A Revolutionary New Understanding of a Medical Mystery (Dr. Jason Fung)

GREENCHEF: Go To greenchef.com/ifpodcast135 And Use Code Ifpodcast135 To Get $135 Off Across Five
Boxes, Plus Free Shipping On Your First Box!

Listener Feedback: Sarah - CGM

The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast Episode #146 - Dr. Rick Johnson

Ep. 205 – Fructose – The Driver Behind Metabolic Disease with Dr. Rick Johnson

Listener Q&A: Cia - Help me please!

The Paleo Thyroid Solution: Stop Feeling Fat, Foggy, And Fatigued At The Hands Of Uninformed Doctors - Reclaim Your Health! (Elle Russ)

Cynthia's favorite Thyroid resources

The Institute For Functional Medicine

Listener Q&A: Gab - Podcast question

Ep. 211 – Addressing the Root Cause of Hormonal Imbalances with Dr. Sara Gottfried

Eat For Energy: How To Beat Fatigue, Supercharge Your Mitochondria, And Unlock All-Day Energy (Alex Leaf M.S. and Ari Whitten)

Natural Force Organic Pure C8 MCT Oil – Liquid MCT Oil in Glass Bottle

LMNT: For A Limited Time Go To drinklmnt.com/ifpodcast To Get A FREE Sample Pack With Any Purchase! Learn All About Electrolytes In Episode 237 - Our Interview With Robb Wolf!

Listener Q&A: Christina - Confused on eating in window

Listener Q&A: Michelle - Blood Work

Cu-RE Your Fatigue: The Root Cause and How To Fix It On Your Own (Morley M. Robbins)

Ep. 213 All About Electrolytes: Symptoms, Causes, and Solutions for Electrolyte Imbalance with Robb Wolf

Simply Hydration: Magnesium-Charged Electrolyte Concentrate for Rapid Hydration

Use the link melanieavalon.com/ancestral with the code Avalon10 to get 10% off ancestral supplements!

Our content does not constitute an attempt to practice medicine, and does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Please consult a qualified health care provider for medical advice and answers to personal health questions.

TRANSCRIPT

Melanie Avalon: Welcome to Episode 272 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. If you want to burn fat, gain energy, and enhance your health by changing when you eat, not what you eat with no calorie counting, then this show is for you. I'm Melanie Avalon, biohacker and author of What When Wine: Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo-Style Meals, Intermittent Fasting, and Wine. And I'm here with my cohost, Cynthia Thurlow, Nurse Practitioner and author of Intermittent Fasting Transformation: The 45-Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging. For more on us, check out ifpodcast.com, melanieavalon.com, and cynthiathurlow.com. Please remember, the thoughts and opinions on this podcast do not constitute medical advice or treatment and no doctor-patient relationship is formed. So, pour yourself a mug of black coffee, a cup of tea, or even a glass of wine, if it's that time, and get ready for The Intermittent Fasting Podcast.

Friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get 50% off a product that has truly changed my life. Do you experience stress, or anxiety, or chronic pain? Do you have trouble sleeping at least once a week? If you do, trust me, you are not alone. I personally have explored so many avenues for how to have a healthy relationship with stress and finding the world of CBD oil has been absolutely incredible for that. After doing more and more research, I realized just how incredible the health benefits of CBD are. CBD regulates your cannabinoid system like an adaptogen making you feel better naturally. It's not addictive, it's not a crutch, basically it's just helping your body function better when it comes to stress, anxiety, pain, and sleeplessness. I take it daily for my mood and the effects are profound. In fact, I even got robbed last year and I went from crying with stress and anxiety to taking some Feals and laughing. I said to my mom, "Mom, see how effective this is?" Due to all of its health benefits, we knew we wanted to partner with a CBD company for the podcast. But I have very stringent criteria. You guys know this. So many brands approached us and I kept just saying, “No, because nothing fit all of my criteria.” I wanted CBD oil that was full spectrum, tested for purity, organic, made with MCT oil as the carrier, and that I actually experience benefits from. That's a pretty tall order to fill. We said no to a lot of brands, and then Feals came along, and it was meant to be. I personally tried it out and started seeing massive effects on my sleep and stress. Feals is so easy to take. You can just put a few drops under your tongue and you'll feel the difference within minutes. I truly do feel it within minutes. 

Of course, it is important to remember that CBD works differently for everybody based on your own unique cannabinoid system, so, you might need to work to find your perfect dose. Experiment over the course of a week or so, and you may find that you need more or less depending on the effects that you're looking for. I'm also super grateful because they have an incredible offer for our audience. You can start feeling better with Feals. Become a member today by going to feals.com/ifpodcast and you'll get 50% off your first order with free shipping. That's FEALS dotcom slash IFPODCAST to become a member and get 50% automatically taken off your first order with free shipping. feals.com/ifpodcast. When you get that offer, you'll be joining the Feals community and you'll get Feals delivered directly to your doorstep every month. You'll save money on every order and of course, you can pause or cancel anytime. So, definitely try it out for the first month with our code for 50% off and see how it works for you. We'll put all this information in the show notes.

And one more thing before we jump in, are you fasting clean inside and out? When it comes to weight loss, we focus a lot on what and when we eat. It makes sense because these foods affect our hormones and how our bodies store and burn fat. But do you know what is possibly one of the most influential factors in weight gain? It's not your food and it's not fasting, it's actually our skincare and makeup. As it turns out, Europe has banned over a thousand compounds found in conventional skincare and makeup in the US due to their toxicity. These include endocrine disrupters, which mess with your hormones, carcinogens linked to cancer, and obesogens, which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight. Basically, when we're using conventional skincare and makeup, we are giving these obesogenic compounds direct access to our bloodstream. And then in our bodies, studies have shown they do things like reduce our satiety hormones, increase our hunger hormones, make fat cells more likely to store fat, and more resistant to burning fat, and so much more. If you have stubborn fat, friends, your skincare and makeup maybe playing a role in that. Beyond weight gain and weight loss, these compounds have very detrimental effects on our health and they affect the health of our future generations. That's because ladies, when we have babies, a huge percent of those toxic compounds go through the placenta into the newborn. It is so, so shocking and the effects last for years. 

Conventional lipstick, for example, often tests high in lead and the half-life of lead is up to 30 years. That means when you put on some conventional lipstick, 30 years later, maybe half of that lead has left your bones. On top of that, there is essentially no regulation of these products on the shelves. That's why it's up to us to choose brands that are changing this. The brand that is working the hardest to do this is Beautycounter. They were founded on a mission to change this. Every single ingredient is extensively tested to be safe for your skin, so, you can truly feel good about what you put on. And friends, these products really, really work. They are incredible. They have counter time for anti-aging, counter match for normal skin, counter control for acne and oily prone, and counter start for sensitive. I use their Overnight Resurfacing Peel and vitamin C serum every single night of my life and their makeup is amazing. Check on my Instagram to see what it looks like. Tina Fey, even wore all Beautycounter makeup when she hosted The Golden Globes. So, yes, it is high-definition camera ready. They have so many other products, deodorant, shampoo and conditioner that I love, products for babies, and so much more. You can shop with us at beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code, CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. Also, make sure to get on my clean beauty email list, that's at melanieavalon.com/cleanbeauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list. So, definitely check it out. You can join me in my Facebook group, Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share their experiences, ask questions, give product reviews, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well. 

And lastly, if you're thinking of making Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare, a part of your future like we have, we definitely recommend becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get 10% back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the yearlong membership. It is totally, completely worth it. So, again, to shop with us, go to beautycounter.com/melanieavalon or beautycounter.com/cynthiathurlow and use the coupon code, CLEANFORALL20 to get 20% off your first order. And we'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, now, back to the show.

Melanie Avalon: Hi, everybody and welcome. This is Episode number 272 of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. I'm Melanie Avalon and I'm here with, Cynthia Thurlow.

Cynthia Thurlow: Hey, Melanie. How are you today?

Melanie Avalon: I'm good. How about you?

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm great. In three days, I will be on vacation with my family. 

Melanie Avalon: This is very exciting. 

Cynthia Thurlow: It is really exciting. The most exciting part that I've realized is that now, my children are old enough that they have to get all their clothing and all of their things together without my help. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, that's nice.

Cynthia Thurlow: It’s a huge milestone. For 17 years, I've been packing four people for trips and now, technically, I'm guiding two, and I'm only packing one, and that's very exciting.

Melanie Avalon: I should after this call my mother and thank her for all the time she did that. [chuckles] I think my favorite part of traveling when we were little was everything, she would pack us for the plane ride.

Cynthia Thurlow: I used to do all that. Now, I've got two surly, yet wonderful teenage boys. Other than making sure, I've got one EpiPen packed and a couple sundry things. They're very fairly independent. Let me make-- I provide that qualifier. But I'm Marvel now when we get on planes that I don't have to-- Let me just backtrack. When you have younger children, it's like, “I don't want them to have a poopy diaper, I don't want them to make a lot of noise, I don't want them to scream.” Now, they are quiet, and they either eat or they're attached to their iPads, and it's very pleasant. Very, very pleasant.

Melanie Avalon: Does one of them have a life-threatening allergy?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes. My 16-year-old has peanut and tree nut allergies. If I had to pick a child to have a food allergy and I would not, of course want either of my children to have a food allergy, but he is by far the most conscientious of the two. And so, he navigates pretty well. Very responsible. Now, he's at the age where he can carry his own EpiPen, but I always have a backup. He navigates his carnivorish world really nicely. And so, when we travel, it's always the-- Let's hope it's the airline that doesn't serve peanuts as a snack.

Melanie Avalon: Are there airlines that still serve peanuts?

Cynthia Thurlow: Occasionally, I see that and I generally, when I get on the plane, I just politely ask. [chuckles] There is a person on the airplane that an aerosolized peanut could be a problem if you're on a long flight. I have never had a problem. People have always been super respectful of that, thankfully.

Melanie Avalon: What will set it off?

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, it's interesting. Every couple of years, they do RAS Testing, which is really looking at provoking the inflammatory response in the blood. And so, what's been interesting is that his results have never gotten better over the years. It's like in the hierarchy of nuts, it's like walnut, and hazelnut, and then peanut, and then almonds don't even register, but I just don't ever want to take the chance. And so, from our perspective, he's only had one confirmed contact with a tree nut, which was probably, I don't know, eight years ago, and he vomited violently, and had some wheezing, and it was all incredibly scary, and then, actually had a second exposure, even though we were really diligent when we went to a restaurant explaining what his allergies were. He had the whole like his lips started to tingle, and his tongue started to tingle, and then of course, we go down the rabbit hole of, “How far away from a hospital? Making sure we have the Epi Pen and trying to get things on board to help quiet the inflammatory response, the histamine response,” and it's scary. 

It's interesting because teenage boys are the most likely to trigger an anaphylactic episode because they think they're completely impervious to anything. Their frontal lobe isn't fully developed and I worry more about him when he starts navigating life outside of our house, and dating, and the exposures he can get there, and his allergies have never gotten better. When we looked into peanut desensitization, he would have to do it for the rest of his life like you do a series of these immunological therapies and then it resolves itself, it's like forever, and he said, “I don't want to do that.” He's like, “I'd rather just avoid.”

Melanie Avalon: One of the last serving jobs that I had and this was in LA. It was at a really nice steak house and one of the managers had a peppermint allergy. They said, “You can't have peppermint.” My thing, as listeners know and I might have told this story on the show before. I'm obsessed with my peppermint breath spray. I make it out of peppermint essential oil and water and it's like a thing on this podcast, by the way, people make it. We have links to the way I make it in ifpodcast.com/stuffwelike. I have this spray with me all day, every day. I use it all day, every day. I have an oral breath, fresh breath fixation. They said, “You can’t have peppermint” and I was like, “Okay, but I can have peppermints?” I was like, “It can't be that big of a deal.” All he did was use the peppermint spray while working and he had to go to the hospital. I was like, “Oh.” Then it was a running joke and they're like, “It's fine. It's not a big deal. This happens with new servers.” [laughs] I felt so bad. I felt terrible. I brought him the next day, massive gift of like, “Wine?” He's like, “I can't accept this.” I was like, “You have to. [chuckles] I'm so sorry.” So, yeah, that stuff can be serious. 

Cynthia Thurlow: It really can be. Had I not seen the impact as a nurse in the ER many years ago, I would never have understood how significant it can be. I just saw too many anaphylactic episodes. For anyone that's listening, this isn't familiar with that term. It's the most life-threatening response to an allergen and unfortunately, we're seeing more and more of this. Only 30% of kids outgrow their food allergies. It's a really small percentage. There're so many people navigating, young adulthood, and adulthood with food allergies. And so, yeah, it's surprising how the body can manifest exposure to specific allergens. It's really humbling quite honestly. Like, “Had I not had a child with a life-threatening food allergy?” I think my life would have been very different because it changed everything for me. I just didn't view the world as a safe place anymore. When I kept thinking like, “We could go anywhere, and he could get an exposure, and what's going to happen?” I don't want to be jabbing my two-year-old with an EpiPen. Obviously, I would have done it if I needed to. It definitely can be frightening as a parent and I think it's one of those things unless you've experienced it like you did with your boss, you probably can't even appreciate how significant it can be.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. In a way, I'm glad that I had that experience, because I will really, really respect that going forward. Now, I'm just thinking, I bet in the future of healthcare way down the road. I feel they'll probably come up with something where they literally-- I understand that the allergy desensitization is this technique, but I wonder if in the future, there'll be a process where it literally just tells the immune system, “Hey, this isn't a big deal” like an instant shift. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I hope so. I just think there are a lot of families that are navigating. I know I felt fear and overwhelm even as a healthcare professional because my son’s allergist resounding words were, “Carrying EpiPen and pray.” I was like, “Who wants to hear that when they find out their two-year-old has life-threatening food allergies?” It's the last thing you want to hear. There're plenty of people that are hearing the same information from their allergist. Hopefully, there's something coming, there's some amazing, amazing immunologist, allergist out there that's going to revolutionize the way that we look at food allergies.

Melanie Avalon: I bet there is. Did you read Dr. Jason Fung’s, The Cancer Code?

Cynthia Thurlow:  I did.

Melanie Avalon: This was not allergies. But I feel the last part of his book had a really interesting information about immunotherapy for cancer, and just modulation of the immune system, and such.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. It's interesting because it's such a departure from the conventional allopathic model that has been the norm over the last 50 years. I think Jason's brilliant and I'm so glad that he got people interested in having different types of conversations around cancer therapies because-- Did you interview? Why am I drawing a total blank, Sam Apple? 

Melanie Avalon: No.

Cynthia Thurlow: He brought back Warburg's research on the cancer model that is more aligned with Jason Fung’s book and was moving away from DNA-based or genetic-mediated types of cancers. He was a Jewish scientist in the midst of World War II and for some reason, Hitler took a liking to him and allowed him to continue his research. The book is really interesting. I'd love to share it with you.

Melanie Avalon: Wait, how old is he now? Because you asked me if I interviewed him?

Cynthia Thurlow: He's dead. Yeah, and then at Warburg-- Sam Apple is the author.

Melanie Avalon: I'm so confused about this timeline. [laughs] 

Cynthia Thurlow: Sorry. No, Sam Apple is the author and he's a research scientist. Yes, Warburg is the-- [crosstalk] 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, what is his book called? Does it the word Warburg in the title?

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm terrible with names. Melanie knows this about me. It's a struggle. I've been this way my whole life. Sometimes, I have these moments where I'm like, “I can't remember.” I can see the cover I’ll have to share it with you separately.

Melanie Avalon: Ravenous: Otto Warburg, the Nazis, and the Search for the Cancer-Diet Connection.

Cynthia Thurlow: It was very interesting.

Melanie Avalon: That sounds like a health page turner.

Cynthia Thurlow: Sometimes, a lot of times, Melanie and I, our podcasts overlap with guests and sometimes it doesn't. But I kept thinking, I was like, “I don't know if you've interviewed him.”

Melanie Avalon: I have not. There were some moments in Jason's book, where I was like, “Dah, dah, dah.” I was so invested. He does really nice reveals. The nuance that I didn't realize until reading his book was that the big paradigm shift that happened with Warburg was re-understanding because basically, the Warburg effect is the idea that cancer cells use-- They use glycolysis. They're running on glucose rather than fat. Jason talks about how they're actually-- it's not because they can't burn fat, it's because they're choosing to burn sugar, which is very interesting to me.

Cynthia Thurlow: Well, and you think about in the 1950s as Crick and Watson discovered the DNA Helix. That really shifted research in a totally different direction. And so, yeah, we're coming back to a principle that has been around for 80 years that largely had been left unrevealed, undiscovered, rediscovered, I had to think about.

Melanie Avalon: Hiding, I don't know.

Cynthia Thurlow: Hiding. Hiding probably because of the context in which that research was ongoing. 

Melanie Avalon: Oh, yeah, literally hiding. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. [laughs] 

Melanie Avalon: Well, for listeners, we'll put links to all of this in the show notes. And again, the show notes will be at ifpodcast.com/episode272. 

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Melanie Avalon: Shall we jump into everything for today? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. 

Melanie Avalon: All right. To start things off, we actually have some listener feedback and this comes from Sarah. Sarah says, “I want to thank you. Several months ago, I got a CGM from NutriSense and I realized my fasting blood sugar was higher than it should be. The NutriSense dietician was encouraging me to eat breakfast earlier to help with high blood sugar in the morning. I just knew that couldn't be the answer. For months, I reached out to you, Benjamin Bikman, Cynthia Thurlow, and another doctor. I just couldn't figure it out. I heard your interview with Dr. Rick Johnson and that was so amazing. Then you guys talked about an interview with Peter Attia and David Perlmutter, and that was also amazing. I bought Nature Wants Us to Be Fat.” And for listeners, that is Rick Johnson's book. “Guess what changed. I started drinking more water and stopped eating dark chocolate with sugar at night. Well, I cut out all sugar, I also started taking vitamin C. That's it. I have lowered my blood sugars to the mid-90s. I couldn't be happier. This could have potentially been so bad down the road and so much harder to deal with.” So, that's some pretty cool feedback from Sarah. For listeners, I had Rick Johnson on the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast. Cynthia had Rick Johnson on Everyday Wellness. 

I said last week that it was going to be this week, but I was incorrect in the lineup. Next week, Rick Johnson is actually going to be on this podcast. This is a really great teaser question for next week's episode. You definitely want to check it out, but Rick has some very, very interesting information surrounding the role of sugar, and fructose, and metabolic health, and in particular, Sarah was talking about some things that he talks about to help with all of that, particularly, the role of vitamin C. But super happy for you, Sarah that you're able to solve the issue. And also, I like the feedback about how-- because if you haven't a CGM from NutriSense, you do get to work with a dietician who can help you with your results, and what they mean and make suggestions. It's nice that Sarah was able to work with them, but also knew that for her personally, those suggestions weren't probably going to-- they weren't what resonated with her. So, I'm glad that she was able to find something that did work. Do you have thoughts, Cynthia?

Cynthia Thurlow: No, I think it really goes back to bio individuality the N of 1. The recognition that it may take multiple changes to your lifestyle to see some significant improvements. I'm sure the hydration and the reduction in processed sugars really made a big difference. One thing I want to point out that Sarah mentioned was that she stopped eating chocolate at night. And so, it's probably a good reminder, just to remind people that we have more insulin sensitivity during the day. If you're already leaning in the direction of insulin resistance or you're noticing your blood sugars are higher, you really want to be examining, like, how close to bedtime you're eating, what you're eating for your last meal, and sometimes, if you're deciding to have more discretionary carbohydrates, maybe easier and better to do that earlier in the day.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome, awesome, awesome. I think the vitamin C piece was because it lowers uric acid, I believe, I think that's the connection with that. So, again, listeners, tune in next week to learn more.

Cynthia Thurlow: I love Rick Johnson. I think resounding. I say to everyone, he's one of the most delightful interviews I've had easily in my podcasting career. He's just infectious everyone. That's my number two downloaded episode of the year. I'm not exaggerating.

Melanie Avalon: I should go and look at my stats.

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm very OCD about that. That's why some people come back multiple times. I'm like, “Your content really resonated and I need to bring you back.”

Melanie Avalon: I should probably do that. Yeah. I rarely look at the numbers. I probably should.

Cynthia Thurlow: I don't know. I'm very competitive with myself. It's like, I want to know each month that there are more people curious and interested and it allows me to see what content really resonates. Obviously, I think you're the same way. You wouldn't bring someone on The Biohacking Podcast unless you were super interested in them as an individual in their work, in their research. But it's always amazing to me, there are sometimes surprises, sometimes, I'm surprised by something will really resonate or other times, I'm like, “Oh, my gosh, this is the best interview” and then it doesn't get as much downloads. And so, I just find it all fascinating.

Melanie Avalon: I was just thinking about that because I was thinking about how people I bring back, it's honestly, it's based on who I really like. I know I've brought back some people that-- Again, I'd have to go look at the numbers, but my gut tells me they probably weren't necessarily the highest in the numbers, but I just really wanted to talk to them again. Yeah, it's an interesting balance. It's really fun. I think it's really fun like how we get to choose the lineup, really creating shows.

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely, absolutely. Speaking of amazing people that I know you've had on twice, I've had on twice. Robb Wolf, I could talk to. He's another person I could just talk to you for hours.

Melanie Avalon: Between the two shows, I think it's been, is it four? It's definitely three. He can come on anytime. I'll just have The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Robb Wolf Podcast.

Cynthia Thurlow: That's awesome. He's such a cool guy. He’s just so humble, down to earth, and just a great human.

Melanie Avalon: I know. Oh, and that was super fun. Cynthia and I both got to interview Mark Sisson last week and it was back-to-back.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, we had an embarrassing kerfuffle on my end, which I'm grateful that I have a friend who intervened immediately, but there was a miscommunication between my podcast team member and what time Mark said he was available. And so, I was on the fly. [laughs] I think it turned out fine, but it was one of those things where you can't apologize enough when you're leaving someone at that level in their business wondering what you're doing. So, anyway, I think it'll all be fine. But still, it was a little embarrassing.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, you and I talked about it right after it happened. I just would have been so flustered in my head, but I'm sure he probably didn't think about it nearly as much as you did.

Cynthia Thurlow: No, he's probably like amateur. I think it was fine. I agree with him.

Melanie Avalon: What's really interesting about him is, I was thinking beforehand, because I've been a follower of him for so long. I know Elle really well, I know his coauthor Brad really well, but I've never met him. I had an idea of what I thought he was going to be like and he was exactly what I thought he was going to be like, which was I thought he was going to be just really nice and just really, really energetic. Because I feel with people and interviews, everybody who I've had on has been so gracious and lovely. But sometimes, you get the sense that I thought with Mark, I didn't feel I was going to get any sense that this was out of his way or anything like that. This is what he does. I just thought he'd be all energy, and all in, and that's that was really the vibe I got, which was very inspiring, because I think he's 76? Oh, 67, 67. 

Cynthia Thurlow: 69.

Melanie Avalon: 69. Well, not 76. Sorry.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, no. I was going to say, if he's 76, it looks pretty dang good. He was delightful and humble. I loved that. He is very committed to his family and the tail end of our discussion was about, how did you find balance with your family? Then he gave some really great insights and certainly, things I got off and I was just like, “Wow, the greatest gift you can give your loved ones is time.”

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I love that. All right, shall we go on to our next question?

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. This is from Sia. Subject is: “Help me please.” My name is Sia. I'm 41 and pretty sure I'm pre-menopausal. My thyroid is a tad off and I'm trying to correct that. I started fasting November 15th, and I started at 167 pounds, and here it is April 23th, and I weigh 162 pounds. I've always been a healthy eater, I switch it up with OMAD and ADF, and feel tired all the time. It's been hard to workout, I'm sure because of thyroid. I listen to your podcasts, and I've read your books and others from Dr. Fung. I know we're not supposed to compare ourselves to others, but I feel I'm seeing super slow results. Can you give me some tips or what your thoughts are? Sincerely, Sia.

Melanie Avalon: All right, Sia, thank you so much for your question. First of all, with the thyroid stuff, I'm super curious. This is a good thing to talk about just for listeners in general. The hypothyroidism issue can be a really tricky one to tackle and I think it's really, really important to work with a practitioner who's really knowledgeable in making sure they are addressing it correctly. By that, testing all the levels they need to be testing. The free T3, the total and free T4, the TSH, the reverse T3, Elle Russ has a really great book called The Paleo Thyroid Solution. For anybody who wants to get, I believe the most comprehensive overview of hypothyroidism, and what you need to be testing, and how diet affects it. I've been texting her this week about my own panel, because the doctor and I was telling Cynthia about this as well. I've been working with a conventional doctor on my-- because I have hypothyroidism and I'm on thyroid medication. This has been a whole experience just hitting home again, how important it is to take agency in your own health and your relationship with your doctor, and the labs that are being drawn, and stuff like that, because I've been working with conventional doctor for a while on my thyroid and I was working with her, because I found her within my insurance plan, and she actually was open to testing everything, and what she was prescribing me was what I also thought I should be on, and I was feeling good. 

But actually, the most recent time around, she changed my dosage. I was telling Cynthia about it. But basically, it was incorrect. The way she changed, it didn't make sense math wise for what she was trying to do. All of that to say, I'm all over the place right here. But I think it's really, really important to work with a practitioner who really can help you. I'd be curious, Sia, when you say, it's off. I'm wondering in what regards it's off. Is it what are you low in, how are you addressing it, is it with the medication and how is that being adjusted? And then all of that to say, but I'm super curious to hear Cynthia's thoughts on this. But if you're struggling with hypothyroidism and this issue, it sounds you're doing a lot of fasting and I probably would not be doing all of that fasting, especially like the ADF. What are your thoughts?

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, I have so much. For full disclosure, Sia, I also have hypothyroidism, probably have Hashimoto’s, but I've never had positive antibodies, probably, because we're gluten free. There's a lot that I think about. When someone's in perimenopause and we're talking about hormesis, which is this hormetic stress in the right amount at the right time, there are a couple things that I think about. You mentioned that your values are off and I don't have a sense of what your labs were, but we have to think comprehensively. We have to think about what's your sleep quality, are you exercising, are you eating an anti-inflammatory diet? We know with an autoimmune issue you really have to work on gut health. I don't know, if you're just on synthetic medications like Synthroid. And if you are, that's totally okay, that's synthetic T4. But if your body can't actively convert T4 to the active form of thyroid hormone, which is T3, that could explain why the way the scale isn't really budging and why you're so tired. 

But the fact that you're so symptomatic, you're very tired. That should be a clue that you need to back up the bus, I would stop doing this really long fasts because in and of itself that is a stress to the body. I would absolutely positively work with a thyroid specialist, whether that's an endocrinologist, an integrative medicine, or an open-minded primary care provider, and make sure that they're looking at cofactors. I would ensure they're looking at iodine, and magnesium, and zinc, and your B vitamins, and looking at inflammatory markers. I see a lot of women that in early perimenopause are becoming insulin resistant and it could very well be. It's a combination of multiple factors that are contributing to why you feel so poorly. Weight loss resistance is more often than not, because of multiple factors. It's not just one factor. I think this really speaks to doing more digging. I would imagine it is not just your thyroid. It could also be adrenals, it could be low progesterone in relationship to estrogen, it could be your sleep quality. Don't give up hope, you just need more information, and I would absolutely positively back off on those long fasting windows. There's just no way you're going to be able to get in enough protein in one meal a day to be able to properly feel your body at this point. It sounds the fatigue is what you really need to use as your gauge. You can do fasting when you're not quite so tired. Then, it might just be that you start with a 12-hour window of not eating and slowly opening that up. But I really do fervently believe that you need more information. 

I love Elle’s book. Elle is a fantastic resource. I also think about and I'm turning my head to look, because I have a bunch of thyroid books. I actually did a reels on this talking about my favorite thyroid resources. We'll put the list of books that I generally recommend. I've got four or five. But I think Elle Russ' book is an excellent first choice to help educate you. She's all about empowerment and she really comes at it from the perspective of she suffered for years because she was navigating a world in which they weren't looking at the full picture. I think it's important to really understand, like, a full thyroid panel is a TSH, it's a free and total T3 and T4, it's a reverse T3, its antibodies. You can split hairs beyond that, but it really is important to have all those factors. If you're on medication that is not supporting your body adequately and you're not getting the right labs, not the errors on your part, but the practitioners are not ordering the right labs, it may not illuminate what is going on and giving you the full picture. So, good luck and definitely keep us posted.

Melanie Avalon: I actually emailed my doctor and I sent her, I was like, I don't know how she's going to take this, but I sent her a really long thing. I tried to approach it to her as not me saying like, “This is the way it is,” but saying like, “Oh, I'm curious about this. What do you think about this?” It was resources surrounding-- A discussion we had been having, because her concern, for example, and Elle was telling me about how this is such an issue is. Oftentimes, when people are on thyroid medications, if they're on T3 medication, it can or it should in a way suppress their TSH. And so, doctors treat to not lower the TSH, and so, then they can possibly keep patients in a hypothyroid state when arguably the TSH should be lowered when you're on T3 supplementation. So, that's a little bit of a nuance and I don't know if it's relative at all to Sia’s situation, but it could be something to consider for people. 

Cynthia Thurlow: I think it's really hard. I have to be honest I have functional training and I can tell you that if I had not been seeing an integrative medicine provider at the time of my diagnosis, I probably would have been left floundering for a few years. There are still individuals that are open-minded. I know Melanie works with someone who takes insurance that's open-minded. These unicorns do exist. Another resource that I generally direct people to is www.ifm.org, where you can look for practitioners in your area that have functional medicine training and tend to be a little bit more open-minded. I certainly have done a lot of podcasts with thyroid experts, some of whom are clinicians. Recently, it was Dr. Amie Hornaman is one. I know she works throughout the United States, I think about Dr. Eric Balcavage, who's wonderful and has a new book coming out. I think about Elle and there's someone else that we have scheduled for the podcast that's coming out this fall. But there's definitely a lot of resources. Dr. Amy Myers has a lot of resources online. Like I mentioned, I will make sure that we put it in the show notes. Some of the books that I give like a stepwise progression, because I probably have every book that's out there on thyroid. The ones that I think that I reference the most for patients, the Elle’s book is a great, first step for sure.

Melanie Avalon: Awesome. Again, we'll put links to all of that in the show notes and the show notes have a full transcript as well. All right, so, the next question, actually, the good question to piggyback on that. This comes from Gab and the subject is: “Podcast question.” And Gab says, “Hi, I have PCOS, hypothyroidism, and Hashimoto’s. My Hashimoto’s antibodies have gone down. So, it feels I'm mainly dealing with hypothyroidism and PCOS now. I love eating keto because it finally makes my chronic inflammation go down, my bloating has resolved, and I don't feel as swollen. However, I feel very restricted and limited with the way I'm eating and I'm still not losing fat. I have a huge laundry list of food sensitivities and allergies due to my Hashimoto’s, and I've been feeling so much better after staying away from all the foods that came back reactive from the test. I do take HCl and digestive enzymes along with one berberine a day at my meal, which is always in the evening. Melanie and I are very alike. My eating window is later at night. 

I'm in a bittersweet spot. The information of knowing my trigger foods for sensitivities is helpful, but now, I feel I have to eat this careful and clean forever just to feel okay. I'm trying to lose six to 10 pounds and the fat won't come off. I'm only 5’1”. Even two pounds is very noticeable for me and physically uncomfortable. I've heard you talk about this before on, “what exactly is the body running on if carbs are low?” I stay away from all processed foods and PUFAs, and I've been doing protein-sparing modified fast days here and there. My fat is also not high because I know eating high fat can stall fat loss. Nothing is working. The stubborn fat I'm trying to lose is on my arms and thighs. What is going on if my body is not using fat stores as fuel and energy, what am I running off of then? I'm in no way eating at a calorie surplus and I'm definitely not eating enough to maintain either, yet, here I am maintaining or gaining. Am I just doomed because of my hyperthyroidism? I'm finally on a medication that is starting to make me feel a little better each month. I take LDN, a B complex and I am constantly searching supplements and protocols. I take magnesium and CBD at night etc., etc. I do Pilates, lightweight training, walking, and yoga. When I used to do heavier weights training, I bulked up. This is probably due to my PCOS and the fact that I am testosterone and DHEA dominant. I know this probably means cortisol is my root issue. 

Does this mean my body refuses to lose fat because I'm running off cortisol? My body feels best when I'm doing low impact workouts and walking. It still is infuriating because I'm not eating enough and I know starvation mode is half myth, half reality. But you said it best on one of your pods, “you just can't gain fat if you're not eating enough to gain.” I've heard high insulin could also cause fat retention, but my insulin isn't a problem. I got a NutriSense CGM sent to me. I'll be setting up that soon to see what's happening. Please help. I feel hopeless, and helpless, and that my metabolism is permanently shut down. I love you both and I've been binging both of your podcasts. No pun intended. I'm losing my mind. I just want to lose the last pounds of fat, but nothing I do works.”

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, Gab, I have to tell you. When I read this before we got on today and then listened to Melanie share your podcast question, you need to give yourself some grace. I sense that you're really, really hard on yourself and I don't know how long you've been on this journey. I think that sometimes when I sense that patients are really frustrated, we have to really simplify things. There is the power of our minds and I think that we have to look at things from different angles. When we're talking about weight loss and it's something we want really badly, I always remind people that we have to get our bodies better balanced in order to lose weight. I know that that's very often. The point of frustration that people as an example will come to me and say, I want to lose weight, but really, it's all the other things going on. I don't know how long you've been fasting, I don't know if you're doing OMAD, you've mentioned several times in this question that you are concerned you're not eating enough. The concept of your body perceiving that there's not enough food coming on board can absolutely positively-- negatively impact your metabolism. 

I think that we have to be very, very clear that if you're eating at a caloric deficit all the time, and you've got thyroid issues, and you've got some PCOS, and you've got food sensitivities, and you're being really strict with your nutrition, and you're doing this exercising, it tells me that there's a degree of intensity that needs to first be backed off of, but I don't know your age. So, I don't know if you're still in your peak fertile years or you're in perimenopause or menopause, but there's a lot to unpack. I think it really needs to really reflect on simplifying your program, because this degree of intensity is telling me that you're putting your body under an incredible amount of stress, whether you recognize it or not. If you're in the hierarchy of hormones, as I know, Melanie's talked about and I've talked about a lot on podcasts. If cortisol is up, glucose is going to be up and your body is really going to struggle on a lot of different levels. When I work with PCOS patients, yes, sometimes they do very well with a 12-hour, 13, 14-hour period during the day where they're not eating and maybe they do well on low carbs. So, it doesn't mean everyone does well. 

I had Dr. Sara Gottfried on recently and I know Melanie also recently interviewed her. She talks a lot about that there are women, who due to their own genetic makeup do need some degree of discretionary high-quality carbs in order to get that proper T4 to T3 conversion, so, inactive to active thyroid hormone. I think there's a lot here to work with, but I think you also need to start giving yourself some grace. I don't say that to be flippant or unreceptive, because I've been that person, the scale was stuck, and I was frustrated, and I'm not a very tall person. I'm only 5’3”. So, I completely understand that. But at one point and certainly with myself personally, we had to level the playing field and start over and it may be that you need to back off on the intensity of what you're doing. The last thing that I just want to add is depending on how old you are, Melanie is a very young, metabolically flexible woman. Melanie can eat late into the evening and it works for her. But I find for women as they're getting closer to middle age, and certainly, I'm 50. I'm at a different life stage. That doesn't work as well. We know we're less insulin sensitive during the evening and that might be another reason to reflect on when you're eating, what you're eating, and being a little bit kinder to your body. Lean into the lifestyle, give yourself some grace, maybe there's value in working with a practitioner who's going to be able to look at a whole system as opposed to just one issue related to having an underactive thyroid and PCOS. But all these pieces of the puzzle will fall into place eventually. 

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I thought that was an incredible answer. I could not have said it better. I have quite a few thoughts and they all are very similar and echo what Cynthia said. It's a really good question. You keep asking, if you're literally not eating enough to maintain or gain, how are you maintaining or gaining? That's a reality where if you are maintaining or gaining, you are eating enough to maintain or gain, but it might not be because you are eating a lot. It's more likely the hormonal system that your body is in, and it's learning how to adapt, and how to deal with what you are taking in. It can feel like, no matter how much you restrict, your body's going to just maintain at that or you're saying gaining. It's really, really interesting, especially the more I learn about, the book I'm reading right now, I'm really excited. I'm going to be interviewing-- Do you know Ari-- Is it Ari Whitten?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes, he's on my schedule.

Melanie Avalon: Okay. Are we both for his Eat for Energy? Have you read the book, yet? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Mm-mm.

Melanie Avalon: I’ve just started it. A lot of it is talking about the mitochondria and it's just making me realize more and more how-- Because the thesis thus far, I just started the book. But the primary thesis is that chronic fatigue and all of these health issues really the root of them is in the mitochondria. If the mitochondria are not producing energy or shutting down their energy production, we're going to have all of these experiences. That's a very hormonal thing. The mitochondria not producing as much energy as they should be, that's what they're doing because of the environmental stressors that they are exposed to. That's a language of your body and that's why the answer, I believe is and Cynthia said this is, in a rebalancing. The answer is likely in a more broad lifestyle shift change and all this rather than-- because you say that you're looking for supplements, and trying all these different things, and the answer probably is not there. I am really curious to see what you learn with the NutriSense CGM. That might be helpful seeing how your blood sugars are reacting to things. I did want to comment on that you say you know that you don't have issues with insulin. I'm wondering how you know that, especially if you still have active PCOS that is often linked to insulin. I would find it interesting if your insulin is great and you're experiencing all these issues and have PCOS. That would seem a little bit like an anomaly to me. I do wonder if maybe insulin is still high for you. 

But going back to the dietary approach, because it sounds what you're doing is, you really want to be doing keto, and you're doing a very restrictive, it sounds like a low-fat version of keto, and it doesn't seem to be working. There are two big paradigm shifts that I would suggest trying. One would be going higher fat on the keto, but adding those fats from C8 MCT oils. Basically, eating what you're eating now, but adding in a- This is just something to try. I'm not saying this is necessarily the answer, but if you add in a lot of fat from C8 MCT oil, you can stay in this keto state that you want to be in, and that's a very metabolic fat, and that it stimulates energy production. It can really stroke your metabolism and it itself is not easily stored as fat. It might be something that can give your body a signal of abundance while supporting a fat burning state. It's just something to try. 

Option number two and Cynthia touched on this going on a higher carb approach. We've had a lot of people throughout the years reach out to this show, who have been doing low carb. They're just wedded to low carb and they just you know are convinced that keto is the only way that things are going to work. We've suggested or I've suggested trying actually-- I know Cynthia was talking about Sara Gottfried’s approach, which is still a ketogenic approach, but with more carbs. But I would also like to suggest that and/or an actually high-carb approach. A lot of people switch to a high carb, low fat approach still Whole Foods based, still high protein. That is like the thing, I can't tell you how many people I've suggested this to and then they reach back out and say, “Wow, I got my energy back, I started losing weight again.” That's something to try. I know it can be really scary, especially, if you are scared of carbs, but it's something to try. To clarify, I like with the high carb doing a lower fat approach, because then you're not hitting your body with fat and carbs at the same time in a high amount, which I think for a lot of people does not work that well for metabolic health. Yeah, those are just some of my thoughts. Any follow up thoughts?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah, I think it's really the N of 1. It's definitely on this journey and there's no one size fits all. But I think if you're too fervently trying to move too many levers all at the same time, it's going to be hard to know what's effective and what has been helpful. But I think getting things back to a really simplistic methodology is the best starting point and just giving yourself grace because I know how frustrating it can be to be weight loss resistant. I've now been there twice in my 40s and so, I think it's important to just understand that there's some imbalanced part of your system. If you look at your body as a system, there's something that's imbalanced that's creating this resistance. Once you figure out what it is, it will fall into place.

Melanie Avalon: And also, something to consider because we don't know what your weight is. It's also possible to evaluate the weight that you're looking to lose and I'm all for people wanting to lose whatever weight they want to lose, like, no judgement. People can do whatever they want. But the six to 10 pounds, are they the last six to 10 vanity pounds or are you coming from a higher weight? It might be that where your body is right now is a very healthy weight and losing those six to 10 pounds are going to be something that will be hard just because depending on what your weight is right now, they're not something that your body has any intention of losing because it doesn't perceive that as something that it needs to be if you're a completely normal weight or on the lower side of normal. So, something else to consider.

Cynthia Thurlow: Absolutely. But first and foremost, give yourself grace.

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Melanie Avalon: All right, shall we go on to our next question?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes. This is from Christina: “Confused on eating in window.” “Hello, I'm so excited to start this journey with intermittent fasting. I am four days in and doing a 16:8. So far, it's been good. However, I feel I'm only cutting out breakfast and a snack. I'm a CrossFitter. So, I'm used to eating nonstop through the day. Sidenote, On break from CrossFit as I've been on and off since October, hello sinus season and weight gain. I've been having my normal lunch grilled chicken, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet potatoes, and red potatoes followed up with mixed nuts, snack, and then dinner which varies, but I try to stick to protein and veggies. I'm wondering if this is too much. I'm typically hungry by lunch. As for the snack I worry it's just out of habit. Any recommendations? I'm breaking the constant eating once I open my window. Also, I have now been craving pineapple listening to your podcast all day at work. So, I switched from nuts to a bowl of fresh fruit. Pineapples, strawberries, red grapes, cantaloupe, watermelon as of today. Thanks for the advice and looking forward to this journey.”

Melanie Avalon: All right, Christina, thank you for your question. I think you’ve answered your question when you asked us about-- Well, you said you're wondering if it's too much for the snack you worry, it's just out of habit. It sounds you have a pretty intuitive idea that the snack you're eating you're not actually hungry for. I don't want to put words in your mouth, Cynthia, but haven’t you talked before about how you are not a fan of snacks?

Cynthia Thurlow: I'm generally, generally not. I think sometimes, maybe we didn't have-- As an example, she's giving a good example of protein and some healthy carbs, and maybe she needed to add some fat to that meal to maybe keep her satiated, because she was going towards nuts. Whether or not, that's by habit or it's by her body just needing to feel they're fully satiated I, sometimes feel like, “If you're using those carbohydrates, it's fine to use a little bit of olive oil, or butter, or something that's going to keep that satiety.” I don't know, if she's just not getting enough nutrient density in that meal, obviously, that's a clean meal, but maybe there's not enough nutrient density there and that could be what's driving that. I know for myself personally, today, it was my first day back in the gym doing a heavy lifting day and I definitely am finding my first meal that I had was definitely there was more substance to it than on the day that I'm not exercising as fervently. CrossFit is intense. 

The other thing that I think about is, I don't know how young this woman is, but are you exercising for your menstrual cycle? Your follicular phase from the day you start bleeding up until ovulation, if you have a typical 28-day cycle, you can get away with more intense types of exercise. But if you're after ovulation closer to when you're going to start bleeding, your body's going to struggle a bit more. You're going to have more cravings for some carbohydrate rich foods, you may not be able to work out as intensely, and so really examining if you're still menstruating, where you are in your cycle to lean towards what will work best for you. 

The other thing is, if you look at people like Dr. Stacy Sims, who is anti-fasting, but does a lot of research in women's physiology and athletes. We're talking about a very small subsect of the population. Again, the menstrual cycle is important. Where you're training, at the level you're training is important to really be cognizant of how that's going to impact your recovery. Do you really want to be restricting food if you're training for something? Those are the things that come up in my head and definitely as listeners are leaving questions in the future, I would encourage them to at least give us some context like, “Are you 35 or are you 50? Are you 25 or are you 40?” Because that can help guide some of the suggestions that we make.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah. It sounds like if I'm reading it correctly, so, she's not doing any CrossFit right now. I think the issue is that she's used to eating a lot from doing CrossFit, but now, she's not doing CrossFit and so, she's wondering if this is all just habit from her CrossFit days.

Cynthia Thurlow: But she seems pretty intuitive. When people say, “I wonder if it's X,” they generally, probably already have a sense of what may need to be adjusted.

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, exactly. [chuckles] As far as it sounds you're eating the exact same amount of food that you're eating when you were heavily doing CrossFit, and now, you're wondering if it's too much. I know it sounds really simple, but you're asking how do you stop the habit of eating constantly the whole time. There's a magic to just creating some rules, some yes/no rules that you stick to and trying it. Rather than saying, “I'm going to eat my meal, and then I'm going to try not to have a snack, or maybe I'll have like a little bit of a snack,” and you could just say, “I'm not having snacks.” I know that sounds very simple, but it's approach that you can stick to. You can have your meal, and have it in a set place like in the kitchen, and then when you're done with the meal putting everything away, and then kitchen closed and no snacks, and even not having the snacks in the house, so that they're not accessible, and then holding yourself accountable, then having your dinner later. I think we can empower ourselves a lot more than we think we can if we just set up a rule that we say we're going to follow and then we follow it rather than trying to follow it, which is a nuance, a small nuance with language, but I think it makes a big difference. Shall we do one more question? 

Cynthia Thurlow: Sure. 

Melanie Avalon: All right. We have one more question from Michelle. The subject is: “Blood work” and I feel this is a really good question for Cynthia. Michelle says, “Good afternoon. I've been doing IF since March 28th, 2021 and I love it. I'm 39 years old and I'm having issues with bloodwork. My bloodwork is always good, but I've always had low iron. This past time, it was 8.6. My doctor encouraged me to really take my iron for three months and take ibuprofen a few days before my super heavy periods to decrease the flow. Taking the ibuprofen actually works. My last test, my iron was up to 12, but my sodium chloride and potassium were all off. Any ideas of what's going on? Could this be due to fasting? I use the sauna several times a week and I do hot yoga. I'm going to have it rechecked next week, but I wanted to see if anyone else had these issues. Thanks in advance,” Michelle. And now, Cynthia, now that I read this, I see what you're saying. So, thoughts on that?

Cynthia Thurlow: Yeah. Well, there's a lot here. I think Michelle is actually referring to her hemoglobin going from 8.6 to 12. It's definitely heading in the right direction. First of all, she's 39. This is perimenopause. When our bodies are heading towards 10 to 15 years out for menopause and our ovaries are producing less progesterone, so, we have this relative estrogen dominance, which can contribute to heavy menstrual cycles amongst other symptoms. That's number one. 

Number two, if she's doing a lot of exercise and she's doing the infrared sauna, you can absolutely lose discretionary electrolytes. I actually just did a podcast with the amazing Robb Wolf on this particular topic, because we get so many questions. And so, yes, you can effectively lose sodium chloride, magnesium, potassium with sweating. You can have renal losses in your urine. If you are not replacing the electrolytes after sauna and yoga, you absolutely need to be. In fact, I generally recommend that people are using electrolytes throughout the day, especially if they're fasting, but then you add in the exercise and all the extra sweating, and you need to replace not only the water that you've lost, but also the electrolytes. 

Couple of different things. This is perimenopause. Your heavy menstrual cycles will probably persist and continue. There's a lot of different ways to address that, but it sounds like relative estrogen dominance, but most importantly and the thing that I think will be most beneficial is to replace the electrolytes. I have a product called Simply Hydration that you can take in a fed or a fasted state and then, I love LMNT, Robb Wolf's product. My favorite is Orange Salt. I would say in our family, the next big flavor is Grapefruit, which unfortunately, they only have out in a limited amount. But those are definitely some options. You want to salt your food and you want to be making sure that you're staying ahead of those electrolyte losses. I don't know what your numbers were, so, they may just be suboptimal or if they were significant, I would imagine this healthcare practitioner probably would have sent you home with some recommendations. So, those are my thoughts. What do you think, Melanie?

Melanie Avalon: Yeah, I thought that was great. For listeners, LMNT is actually a sponsor on today's episode. I think it's in the pre-roll. You can listen to that to get a free offer and I think a discount on electrolytes. So, check that out. They just changed it. it’s some offer, but I think it's a discount. Yeah, regarding the iron, the hemoglobin, so, I have struggled historically with anemia and mine got very bad. Very, very bad. Mine got to four. I thought I was dying. The reason I bring that up is you're asking if it could be due to fasting. My historical struggle-- So, now, I very intensely monitor my iron panel. Its changes and its fluctuations have been pretty independent of my fasting experience. There are a lot of potential causes and your doctor, hopefully, talked to you about this. But there are a lot of causes for anemia and the inability to keep up your hemoglobin or keep up your ferritin, which is a storage form of iron. It can be internal bleeding, which is what they thought it was with me because mine was so severe. It can be absorption issues, just not being able to absorb. People with celiac often have this issue. You could have normal iron levels, but not have ferritin, because your body is not converting it to ferritin or hemoglobin is just not building up. I'm actually about to read a book. I'm really excited. Do you know Dr. Morley Robbins? 

Cynthia Thurlow: I’ve heard of him.

Melanie Avalon: He wrote a book called, I think, Cu-RE. I haven't read it yet, but he's going to be coming on my show and apparently, he talks all about the copper-iron relationship and that whole role. I think at least, a reason that the body struggles so much with iron is because it's actually a very inflammatory compound. It's ironic because we need it. It's vital to our life. We would be dead without it. Like I said, I literally felt I was dying when I was that anemic. It does create oxidative stress, it's inflammatory, it can potentially feed pathogens. The body is very, very intense in regulating it sort of like a blood sugar, how blood sugar can be toxic, so the body's really intense about regulating that. There are so many places that things can go wrong. [chuckles] Like, where you're getting it from, where you're absorbing it? All of that to say, I don't believe the fasting is the cause of that. It's probably something else and it's probably something where you really need to work with a knowledgeable practitioner to find the root of it. 

I will say what's worked for me for keeping up my iron, actually, I know you're really good friends with her, Dr. Cochrane? Are you friends with Teri.

Cynthia Thurlow: Yes, very good friends.

Melanie Avalon: She made the suggestion to supplement with chlorophyll to boost iron and I found that really helpful. I also supplement with grass-fed spleen that has the highest amount of heme iron of basically, any animal product that you can get. I currently use ancestral supplements. If I make my own organ supplements down the line, I definitely want to make a spleen one. But that might be something to try. I can put a link in the show notes. I have a discount code for them, I think. But yeah, the iron one is tricky. So, really quickly do you have thoughts on her taking the ibuprofen for the periods?

Cynthia Thurlow: I know that it helps with prostaglandins and I think that's part of it. When I read that, I was like, “Oh, she's estrogen dominant.” And so, until you address that, that persists and then it goes into the synthetic hormones, and IUD, and ablation, and hysterectomy. That's what's coming for her, unfortunately. That's the allopathic model. I managed to get through perimenopause without any of the above. I'm happy to say, “Thank God.”

Melanie Avalon: Congrats. All right, well, hopefully, that was helpful, Michelle and definitely feel free to update us with anything. This has been absolutely wonderful. A few things for listeners before we go. If you would like to submit your own questions for the show, you can directly emailquestions@ifpodcast.com, where you can go to ifpodcast.com and you can submit questions there. This was definitely an episode where you want to check out the show notes. We had talked about so many things. Everything as well as a transcript will be at ifpodcast.com/episode272. And then you can follow us on Instagram. I am @melanieavalon, Cynthia is @cynthia_thurlow_ and we are @ifpodcast and definitely tune in next week. Again, I mentioned it before, but Rick Johnson will be our special guest next week. And Cynthia have fun on your travels.

Cynthia Thurlow: I will. I'm so excited. It's hard to believe the past two years, we have not been back to Europe. And so, we are headed to the Czech Republic, and we start in Prague, and end up in Budapest. So, I haven't been to Eastern Europe with my kids. I'm super excited to unplug with them.

Melanie Avalon: I'm really excited for you. You deserve it after all of the book launch. You're coming out of like the storm. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Oh, yeah, that's a whole conversation in and of itself. I'm like, “I'm burned out, I need a break.” So, I'm super excited. But in my absence, I know everyone will love hearing from Rick, who I put on a pedestal.

Melanie Avalon: I know. It'll be great. All right, I'll talk to you in a few weeks then. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Sounds good. 

Melanie Avalon: Bye. 

Cynthia Thurlow: Bye. 

Melanie Avalon: Thank you so much for listening to the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Please remember, everything we discussed on this show does not constitute medical advice and no patient-doctor relationship is formed. If you enjoyed the show, please consider writing your review on iTunes. We couldn't do this without our amazing team. Administration by Sharon Merriman, editing by Podcast Doctors, show notes and artwork by Brianna Joyner, transcripts by SpeechDocs, and original theme composed by Leland Cox and recomposed by Steve Saunders. See you next week.

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Check out the Stuff We Like page for links to any of the books/supplements/products etc. mentioned on the podcast that we like!

More on Cynthia: cynthiathurlow.com

Theme Music Composed By Leland Cox: LelandCox.com

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